ashrog wrote:Oh, I dunno. If I had to choose between using a sword or a gun in my favored hand, I'd choose the gun. Putting the sword in my off hand by default.

Besides, space marines are almost certainly ambidextrous.

lion_el_johnson wrote:on the original question, why are emperors children still called EMPERORS children if the are renegade.....l

Reanimator wrote:I would imagine still being called the emperor's children is a big two fingers to the imperium. Knowing that they were favoured and still turned as a reminder that nothing the emperor had or did is safe from chaos. Or something like that.

Edit: ninja'd

winnertakesall wrote:How every sentinent species in the galaxy is bipedial.

winnertakesall wrote:How every sentinent species in the galaxy is bipedial.

Harriticus wrote:

winnertakesall wrote:How every sentinent species in the galaxy is bipedial.

Thyrrus

Austragalis wrote:This thread is about strange things that you've noticed about 40k, but can scarcely explain!

I actually had a handful of items but can only remember one, right now. I'll post the other things if I remember.

Anyway: why are so many space marines left-handed??? Thing about. Go look at your assault marines; how many of them are holding their swords in their left hand? Like, half, right? I dunno about you, but I'm a righty and it seems like it would be pretty awkward to use your sword in the off-hand.

I was thinking about this and I only came up with two things:

1. It's simply an oversite by the model makers who wanted to have a diverse looking squad.

2. Something about the population of potential space marines is that they are left handed. Maybe GW is implying that lefties are genetically superior? I dunno.

Brother Coa wrote:

winnertakesall wrote:How every sentinent species in the galaxy is bipedial.

Because all others where destroyed by Imperium?

And why Eldar look like Humans?

DarknessEternal wrote:Similarities between biology and technology is easily explained in that all 40k races except Tyranids were designed by the same folks.

zilegil wrote:Back to OP.
How about the concept of eldar rangers having hoods when they are an alien race, the hood was used by humans 38 millennias ago! How did the eldar start using them in their prime without voodoo mindmelding.
Also the fact that weapons like guns, knives, grenades, etc, look the same as human's is strange. I mean look at the tau pulse rifle, similar shape to that of a lasgun, classic rifle shape.
P.S. I look back at what I said and think proper, deep si-fi. lol

bob the heretic wrote:The strange thing tht pissis me off i that it is 40k and thy still cant make a F*&king AI? They still dont know how to make AIs??????

Oh they can. They can and they did. However it had the unfortunate fate of going the same way Skynet did. There was a really long war against the sentient robots (If I can remember correctly), which, evidently, the humans won, but at a high cost, and thus it was decided that sentient robots/AI would be banned, under pain of death/exterminatus/other suitable Imperium punishment. Can't remember if it was before or after the HH, but have a funny feeling it was before the Emperor came onto the scene, so a loooooong time ago.
OT; The fact the Mechanicus can't even change a lightbulb without a dozen incantations to the Omnissiah.

Urien_Rakarth wrote:

zilegil wrote:Back to OP.
How about the concept of eldar rangers having hoods when they are an alien race, the hood was used by humans 38 millennias ago! How did the eldar start using them in their prime without voodoo mindmelding.
Also the fact that weapons like guns, knives, grenades, etc, look the same as human's is strange. I mean look at the tau pulse rifle, similar shape to that of a lasgun, classic rifle shape.
P.S. I look back at what I said and think proper, deep si-fi. lol

Also, all the main alien races are roughly humanoid. Wouldn't all the races be really different depending on home planet or is just Two arms two legs generally good? The only thing that ever changes is the face, build and size.

Sandyman11 wrote:

bob the heretic wrote:The strange thing tht pissis me off i that it is 40k and thy still cant make a F*&king AI? They still dont know how to make AIs??????

Oh they can. They can and they did. However it had the unfortunate fate of going the same way Skynet did. There was a really long war against the sentient robots (If I can remember correctly), which, evidently, the humans won, but at a high cost, and thus it was decided that sentient robots/AI would be banned, under pain of death/exterminatus/other suitable Imperium punishment. Can't remember if it was before or after the HH, but have a funny feeling it was before the Emperor came onto the scene, so a loooooong time ago.
OT; The fact the Mechanicus can't even change a lightbulb without a dozen incantations to the Omnissiah.

Sandyman11 wrote:Nope, proper, full-blown AI, initially under the control of the humans, but, as Kamikaze said, the AI robot-theme always ends up the same; Full scale rebellion and war.
Actually thinking about it I've always wondered why they allow Machine-Spirits, especially in things like Land Raiders and Titans, where they're said to be particuarly intelligent. In fact one story says that an unpiloted Crimson Fists Land Raider went on an Ork-killing frenzy after the explosioin ripped the fortress-monastery apart. THAT seems like full-blown AI to me...

KamikazeCanuck wrote:This is the first I've heard that machine spirits have organic components. Where does it say that?

Uhlan wrote:

KamikazeCanuck wrote:This is the first I've heard that machine spirits have organic components. Where does it say that?

I second this notion.

Though, it would explain why a machine spirit can be possessed.

Uhlan wrote:

KamikazeCanuck wrote:This is the first I've heard that machine spirits have organic components. Where does it say that?

I second this notion.

Though, it would explain why a machine spirit can be possessed.

Grey Templar wrote:

Uhlan wrote:

KamikazeCanuck wrote:This is the first I've heard that machine spirits have organic components. Where does it say that?

I second this notion.

Though, it would explain why a machine spirit can be possessed.

its under the description of PotMS in any codex that has vehicles with the ability to purchase it. the 4th ed SM codex is the fullest description.

Uhlan wrote:

KamikazeCanuck wrote:This is the first I've heard that machine spirits have organic components. Where does it say that?

I second this notion.

Though, it would explain why a machine spirit can be possessed.

KamikazeCanuck wrote:

Spoiler:

Not to mention a tank that tracks them by scent.

Garviel wrote:does anyone else wonder what goes through a Necrons head? do they dream while there asleep or whatever it is they do underground?.

Also, if they are so powerful like with their armadas and their annoying 'we'll be back' then you'd have thought they'd be a big player in a universe where everyone is weakened by constant struggle against eachother. we already know how bad the Imperium tends to do against them. Any logical thought would suggest they, by far and wide, have a very good chance of dominance.

Grey Templar wrote:
the T'au are heading in this same direction with their AI programs. they'll have their own Iron Man expierience soon.

FlammingGaunt wrote:He didn't denoune all religion he denounced worship of himself, but ya pretty sad how the imperium turned out.

Librius Machina wrote:Which sister decided that a giant organ that fires mortars by playing an organ was a practical idea?

bthom37 wrote:B. Sisters love manipulating giant organs...

bthom37 wrote:
B. Sisters love manipulating giant organs...

Dogface 76 wrote:Max Brooks: Blades do not need reloading.

Riddick40k wrote:If the Imperium is predjiduce about mutants then why in the heck do they allow midgets with fury feet and giant oversized retards in their army?

Why are humans still riding horses into battle???

Why are giant oversized bikes being used in the future for warfare?

Why is all the imperiums land based vehicles still on treds?

Why doesn't the Imperium have some kind of kick butt heliocopter?

Who's was high on shroomes when they decided orks came from fungi?

And for emperor sakes why is their swords still being used in future warfare!???

Perkustin wrote:It is also worth noting that training a soldier to effectively use a sword is much more dificult than training him to effectively use a gun. The imperium clearly trains it's men in close combat to a far greater degree than contemporary forces so it is understandable. Also Humanities primary (afaik) antagonist in it's history has been the ork, a creature who will charge through even the most punishing firing solution to get Krumpin'. Close combat training would be a must.

Most imperial machines have organic components, it is safer to hardwire a human brain as they are easier to control. Hence servitors and servo skulls. I would not be at all surprised if a landraider had a human brain in it's machinery.

Garviel wrote:does anyone else wonder what goes through a Necrons head?

Garviel wrote:does anyone else wonder what goes through a Necrons head?

zilegil wrote: lso the fact that weapons like guns, knives, grenades, etc, look the same as human's is strange.

Garviel wrote:does anyone else wonder what goes through a Necrons head? do they dream while there asleep or whatever it is they do underground?.

Also, if they are so powerful like with their armadas and their annoying 'we'll be back' then you'd have thought they'd be a big player in a universe where everyone is weakened by constant struggle against eachother. we already know how bad the Imperium tends to do against them. Any logical thought would suggest they, by far and wide, have a very good chance of dominance.

FlammingGaunt wrote:He didn't denoune all religion he denounced worship of himself, but ya pretty sad how the imperium turned out.

Brotherjulian wrote: In second edition Orks and Eldar didn't even have their own basic weapons. Orks used bolters and Eldar had lasguns

Grey Templar wrote:it actually represents you severing servos or cutting power cables rather then actually blowing the legs off.

BaronIveagh wrote:

Grey Templar wrote:it actually represents you severing servos or cutting power cables rather then actually blowing the legs off.

Have you *looked* at a sentinel? Even if you did that, it'd still fall over, because the legs work through either hydraulics or pneumatics. Even severing a cable would cause pressure loss, resulting in a tip over.

Valkyrie wrote:And also the chainswords have a reverse clutch mechanism which allows them to churn any debris out of the system.

Tyranic Marta wrote:mono-filiment and molecular edges

only on power swords mate

purplefood wrote:AFAIK Eldar and Humans were both made by the same race...
Humans were supposedly the trade off between Orks and Eldar.

Shayden wrote:it'll still be 40k, its just with a new name and millennium and story progression! Although I think some people are a little resistant to change. Its just a problem I have with it, not everyone has the same problem. The stalemate has to end IMO

Redeemer31 wrote:I don't think it's GWs best interest to bother trying to advance the story; doubt that there would be increased sales if they did.
Also, it allows people to come up with whatever reason they want for their armies to meet and to do battle; why restrict people from doing what they want and just allow them to be creative with their own armies.

Psienesis wrote:There are plenty of non-humanoid xeno races in the galaxy. Just because *some* of the enemies of the Imperium are humanoid in appearance doesn't mean *all* xeno are humanoid.

The Tyranid, the Rak'Gol and the Loxatl are just three non-humanoid xeno species that pose a threat to the worlds of the Imperium.

Laodamia wrote:So many things I don't understand about 40K.

Why, for instance, on Taros, in two days of urban warfare, with most skirmishes being at very close range, a single hunter cadre was able to kick the ass of a complete SM company supported with scouts and terminators, entrenched in the planetary governor's palace?

Come to think of it, terminator armor, even power armor, doesn't look like it would fall very softly either, and might be a considerable pain to get back on its feet.

Perkustin wrote:The thing i find strange is the contrary nature of the emperor, in some elements of fluff he is described as supremely benevelont and in others he is just a power hungry monster (which he isn't). It is dumb, i far more like the idea that his ideals were perverted into the imperium we have today. It's all this Horus Heresy Garbage, with the emperor dressed like a god angel when other bits of fluff say he didnt want to be worshipped.

Errata...
Most imperial machines have organic components, it is safer to hardwire a human brain as they are easier to control. Hence servitors and servo skulls. I would not be at all surprised if a landraider had a human brain in it's machinery.

IMO I think if the tau did indeed make the breakthrough the AI would be fairly content, the tau are more logical than humanity, indeed it would provide the tau with a powerful ally. The tau would not try and kill it, or enslave it as humanity did. I think the tau are Luvvy duvvy enough to nurture the confused/scared being that they created.

Laodamia wrote:So many things I don't understand about 40K.

Why, for instance, on Taros, in two days of urban warfare, with most skirmishes being at very close range, a single hunter cadre was able to kick the ass of a complete SM company supported with scouts and terminators, entrenched in the planetary governor's palace?

Why, after an entire year of scouting and reconnaissance operations on Kastorel Novem, scouts from the Raven Guard were unable to successfully assess the strength of the orks present there (notably completely missing the presence of stompas and giga dreds, dunno how they missed a stompa, they must have been blind), leading their raid into a bloody disaster?

Tyranic Marta wrote:cause that would be gay
imagine it now
"hey mate you wanna play a game of 40K?"

"whats that?"

"y'know the game with little models n stuff, y;know warhammer"

"oh you mean 41K"

.... nuff said

Tyranic Marta wrote:would be nice to have em as heavy weapons, like a heavy bolter right?

BaronIveagh wrote:No, wait, because that would being CS Goto into canon...

It would be an abomination that must never come to pass.

Brother Coa wrote:Odd things? Like learning a while ago that "on most Imperial worlds is peace. They never saw conflict and they don't react to one". So only 20-30% of Imperium worlds is under some kind of warfare. Why rest 70% don't raise troops and send them as a support? If Imperium is already in danger to have it's border worlds overrun...

And why Emperor didn't tell anyone what his plan for Humanity was? In 41'st millennium every fool with little power has his own "Emperor's plan" for Humanity. Like it was a hard thing to say: "Do this, do that, don't worship me - EVER!!!"

Or making a enemy that is almost indestructible ( Necrons ), that really kills the mood and balance. Speaking of witch, Imperial Guard is the most unbalanced race ( if you have enough of them you win every game ). Why don't they drop new Necron codex and balance them already?

And that planets are a little things in 40k when you need several Regiments of Guard ( 100.000 Guardsman ) to hold down entire planet ( when in reality you need a LOT more troops to hold a country ).

Or Imperium's clever use of troops ( in Ultramarines they used 100 Marines from IF to guard one book? They could stash it on Holly Terra and use that 100 Marines somewhere better ). I swear when I looked at that I wondered: "Somewhere in the Imperium 1000 Space Marines and 30 Guard Regiments are guarding the place where Emperor took a dump once - and now it's sacred".

ANd the fact that Humanity say for every alien species that is " weak", when in reality every Ork is larger than Human, and it can carry more and kill every Human in 1 on 1 fight. ( except SM ). And Eldar thinking about Humans as "weak" and "primitive", yet Humanity didn't make new Chaos god that's eating their souls, surviving for 10.000 years even with all the sh** that is coming to consume us and every time stand victorious even at the most grim odds against us. And not to mention that Humanity control million worlds while Eldar have none left ( at least main worlds ).

The fact that Orks just make new ones and already have a armor and axe to give to everyone. Some even got a gun.

I will thing of more soon..............

iproxtaco wrote:

Brother Coa wrote:Odd things? Like learning a while ago that "on most Imperial worlds is peace. They never saw conflict and they don't react to one". So only 20-30% of Imperium worlds is under some kind of warfare. Why rest 70% don't raise troops and send them as a support? If Imperium is already in danger to have it's border worlds overrun...

And why Emperor didn't tell anyone what his plan for Humanity was? In 41'st millennium every fool with little power has his own "Emperor's plan" for Humanity. Like it was a hard thing to say: "Do this, do that, don't worship me - EVER!!!"

Or making a enemy that is almost indestructible ( Necrons ), that really kills the mood and balance. Speaking of witch, Imperial Guard is the most unbalanced race ( if you have enough of them you win every game ). Why don't they drop new Necron codex and balance them already?

And that planets are a little things in 40k when you need several Regiments of Guard ( 100.000 Guardsman ) to hold down entire planet ( when in reality you need a LOT more troops to hold a country ).

Or Imperium's clever use of troops ( in Ultramarines they used 100 Marines from IF to guard one book? They could stash it on Holly Terra and use that 100 Marines somewhere better ). I swear when I looked at that I wondered: "Somewhere in the Imperium 1000 Space Marines and 30 Guard Regiments are guarding the place where Emperor took a dump once - and now it's sacred".

ANd the fact that Humanity say for every alien species that is " weak", when in reality every Ork is larger than Human, and it can carry more and kill every Human in 1 on 1 fight. ( except SM ). And Eldar thinking about Humans as "weak" and "primitive", yet Humanity didn't make new Chaos god that's eating their souls, surviving for 10.000 years even with all the sh** that is coming to consume us and every time stand victorious even at the most grim odds against us. And not to mention that Humanity control million worlds while Eldar have none left ( at least main worlds ).

The fact that Orks just make new ones and already have a armor and axe to give to everyone. Some even got a gun.

I will thing of more soon..............

Not every world can give troops for various reasons, location, population, role of world eg. Agri world. Saying that, many of those 70% DO give troops to back up war torn worlds, its just that so many guard die trying to defend them that they need constant reinforcement.

Because he didn't expect to die, and his entire plan clinched on the rest of humanity remaining oblivious to it. He wanted man to be free of religion to starve the Chaos Gods of worship. The whole plan was based on keeping the knowledge of Chaos from humanity. Why would he say "right, I've got this plan, no one is allowed to form a religion because I'm trying to defeat the Chaos Gods which rely on the religions of the sentient species". if people knew, they would be curious to find out more about Chaos. Remaining oblivious is far easier than enforcing a law. Oh, and because only The Emperor was capable of carrying out the plan, no one else could be trusted.

I kind of agree. The Necrons are described as being a near invincible race. As soon as they all wake up, the Imperium is screwed.

I don't understand this point. Nearly every world has it's PDF. The size of the PDF depends on the population of the planet. Armageddon likely had a huge PDF to defend it. Defending a planet is probably a lot different than defending a single country. When a large threat that the PDF cant deal with is encountered, more regiments of Guard and other military forces are called, meaning that there are a huge amount more forces on the ground when needed.

Well because if they did that there would be no story. Why would you want to start applying logic to fiction? It ruins the point of the fiction if you start thinking about the why's when it doesn't matter.

When does the Imperium always say that other races are 'weak'? If they say that, they don't mean they are physically weaker than a human, they are generalizing them as inferior to the human design. Why is the Eldar thinking that humans are primitive odd? The Eldar are arrogant because they have better technology, better morals and were once the rulers of the galaxy. They see the Humans kill each other, burn worlds and act with a heavy hand all the time, and know that they could do better, why is being arrogant in fiction odd?. Sure they created Slannesh, but now they have a firm control over their very nature, do humans? No. they are the same, they believe they are superior, that it is their right to rule, just like the Eldar thought. Humanity is only stopped from creating another Chaos God because they aren't as psychically attuned to the Warp as the Eldar, and their faith is placed in a very real and powerful figure, that actively protects them, so the collective faith of humanity is not misplaced into worship of the Chaos Gods.

What are you talking about? Do you mean, why does every Ork have a weapon? Well because they make them out of scrap, a choppa is just a blade with a handle after all. Every piece of Ork tech is simple and their design is coded into the memory of the Orkish race. The more advanced tech are built by the Mech Boyz because they already know how to make them thanks toWTbio-engineering.

Eldar page on lexicanum.com wrote:Although not common, sometimes Craftworld disagreements will cause two to clash on the field of battle, though this is always a last resort.

Corporal_Reznov wrote:
Friend, the books you're reading are Imperial Armour books. They never have the Imperium win any battle without first making them look incompetent. Even then the Imperium almost always lose. The Taros campaign is nothing but Tau masturbation at its finest since everything that could possibly go wrong for the Imperium did go wrong with the Tau not suffering any bad luck that seemed to plague the Imperium . As for Kastoreal Novem another fluff disaster, still better than G"masturbating Marines and Tau"W.

iproxtaco wrote:
What are you talking about? Do you mean, why does every Ork have a weapon? Well because they make them out of scrap, a choppa is just a blade with a handle after all. Every piece of Ork tech is simple and their design is coded into the memory of the Orkish race. The more advanced tech are built by the Mech Boyz because they already know how to make them thanks to bio-engineering.

Tyranic Marta wrote:

BaronIveagh wrote:No, wait, because that would being CS Goto into canon...

It would be an abomination that must never come to pass.

????? sorry i dont follow

Eldars don't always control themselves their are Eldar who leave their craftworld and become pirates who are extremely vicious, brutal but still slightly better than Dark Eldar. The Eldar are xenophobic in that they believe that they are the superior species of the galaxy and that the galaxy is their birthright. A birthright the lesser species like humans have stolen from them. They will gladly sacrifice billions of another race to save a few thousand of theirs.

The Imperium is not heavy handed in its interaction with its people when you are talking about psykers. Human psykers are an evolutionary development whereas Eldar were created to be psykers and have add millions of years for practice on how to handle their powers. Humans don't have this luxury since because they are evolving they suffer all the weaknesses of being a psyker without having that the Eldar being created fully ready by the Old ones didn't have to suffer through. It has been said by Eldar that if they ever got to recreate the Eldar empire they would exterminate their enemies- all of them. [sarcasm]Yah! a very moral species.[/sarcasm]

Alll races of 40k suck when it comes to morality.

Brother Coa wrote:

iproxtaco wrote:
What are you talking about? Do you mean, why does every Ork have a weapon? Well because they make them out of scrap, a choppa is just a blade with a handle after all. Every piece of Ork tech is simple and their design is coded into the memory of the Orkish race. The more advanced tech are built by the Mech Boyz because they already know how to make them thanks to bio-engineering.

i am talking about: one minute the Ork is formed - in the next he already have a axe and a dakka. AS well as his 999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999 brothers....

Hlaine Larkin mk2 wrote:Why doesn't somebody just commit suiccide after killing Lucius, that would stop him coming back. Or blowing up his ship or having masonary fall on him, yet we keep trying to him in CC and end up turning into him

iproxtaco wrote:

Hlaine Larkin mk2 wrote:Why doesn't somebody just commit suiccide after killing Lucius, that would stop him coming back. Or blowing up his ship or having masonary fall on him, yet we keep trying to him in CC and end up turning into him

Because people don't realize that Lucius will do this until it actually happens, and because you can't control yourself once you kill Lucius. There wouldn't be a character if people started using logic.

purplefood wrote:Ammo problems.
A multilaser would burn through a man portable battery very quickly.
Heavy stubbers fall down against heavy bolters for some reason... can't remember what.

Hlaine Larkin mk2 wrote:Besides the ghosts use Heavy Stubbers next to Tred Fethers and Autocannons with no adverse effects

Brother Coa wrote:Odd things? Like learning a while ago that "on most Imperial worlds is peace. They never saw conflict and they don't react to one". So only 20-30% of Imperium worlds is under some kind of warfare. Why rest 70% don't raise troops and send them as a support? If Imperium is already in danger to have it's border worlds overrun...

And that planets are a little things in 40k when you need several Regiments of Guard ( 100.000 Guardsman ) to hold down entire planet ( when in reality you need a LOT more troops to hold a country ).

Or Imperium's clever use of troops ( in Ultramarines they used 100 Marines from IF to guard one book? They could stash it on Holly Terra and use that 100 Marines somewhere better ). I swear when I looked at that I wondered: "Somewhere in the Imperium 1000 Space Marines and 30 Guard Regiments are guarding the place where Emperor took a dump once - and now it's sacred".

Laodamia wrote:

Corporal_Reznov wrote:
Friend, the books you're reading are Imperial Armour books. They never have the Imperium win any battle without first making them look incompetent. Even then the Imperium almost always lose. The Taros campaign is nothing but Tau masturbation at its finest since everything that could possibly go wrong for the Imperium did go wrong with the Tau not suffering any bad luck that seemed to plague the Imperium . As for Kastoreal Novem another fluff disaster, still better than G"masturbating Marines and Tau"W.

All right, so here's another one:

Why is Abbadon still alive, and in charge of the Black Crusades after 12 (and arguably 13) failed attempts to breach the Cadian Gate???

I thought the Chaos Gods lacked two main things: patience and mercy?!?

Grey Templar wrote:

Tyranic Marta wrote:

BaronIveagh wrote:No, wait, because that would being CS Goto into canon...

It would be an abomination that must never come to pass.

????? sorry i dont follow

blessed ignorence,

be glad your Mind hath not been raped by the abominations that hath flowed from the pen of former BL author C.S. Goto.


his great Fetish with Multi-lasers, the transforming tanks, the tank surfing Terminators being BFFs with Kasirkins....

BaronIveagh wrote:That and it doesn't work if he's killed by, say, Necons, or Tyranids, or even Tau, really, since they don't seem to take any satisfaction in killing.

Or if he would be, say, killed by a land mine, or a shell hit, or anything else that his killer has no idea that he killed anyone at all.

Sir Pseudonymous wrote:
They probably haven't even noticed what he's doing yet. The Chaos gods are too big to concern themselves with any one war or potentially even one galaxy. Their lesser servants are the ones who care about conflicts, and Abbadon is roughly equal to any of them who would concern themselves with his actions.

Laodamia wrote:

Sir Pseudonymous wrote:
They probably haven't even noticed what he's doing yet. The Chaos gods are too big to concern themselves with any one war or potentially even one galaxy. Their lesser servants are the ones who care about conflicts, and Abbadon is roughly equal to any of them who would concern themselves with his actions.

Come on! Abbadon is leading the most powerful Chaotic armies since Horus and his heresy. I'm sure they pay attention to what he does, or else it means that they don't give a damn about all of their servants. They probably don't treat with him personally, but they must send their minions and greater daemons to interact with the Despoiler.

Hlaine Larkin mk2 wrote:

Laodamia wrote:

Sir Pseudonymous wrote:
They probably haven't even noticed what he's doing yet. The Chaos gods are too big to concern themselves with any one war or potentially even one galaxy. Their lesser servants are the ones who care about conflicts, and Abbadon is roughly equal to any of them who would concern themselves with his actions.

Come on! Abbadon is leading the most powerful Chaotic armies since Horus and his heresy. I'm sure they pay attention to what he does, or else it means that they don't give a damn about all of their servants. They probably don't treat with him personally, but they must send their minions and greater daemons to interact with the Despoiler.

He has failed thirteen times, at the first hurdle, everytime his force has disentergrated afterwards.
He even lost the PLanet Killer, the most potent weapon in his naval fleet.
So why have the gods forgiven him each time and allowed him the time to rebuild his force everytime.

Hlaine Larkin mk2 wrote:

Laodamia wrote:

Sir Pseudonymous wrote:
They probably haven't even noticed what he's doing yet. The Chaos gods are too big to concern themselves with any one war or potentially even one galaxy. Their lesser servants are the ones who care about conflicts, and Abbadon is roughly equal to any of them who would concern themselves with his actions.

Come on! Abbadon is leading the most powerful Chaotic armies since Horus and his heresy. I'm sure they pay attention to what he does, or else it means that they don't give a damn about all of their servants. They probably don't treat with him personally, but they must send their minions and greater daemons to interact with the Despoiler.

He has failed thirteen times, at the first hurdle, everytime his force has disentergrated afterwards.
He even lost the PLanet Killer, the most potent weapon in his naval fleet.
So why have the gods forgiven him each time and allowed him the time to rebuild his force everytime.

Revenent Reiko wrote:

Hlaine Larkin mk2 wrote:

Laodamia wrote:

Sir Pseudonymous wrote:
They probably haven't even noticed what he's doing yet. The Chaos gods are too big to concern themselves with any one war or potentially even one galaxy. Their lesser servants are the ones who care about conflicts, and Abbadon is roughly equal to any of them who would concern themselves with his actions.

Come on! Abbadon is leading the most powerful Chaotic armies since Horus and his heresy. I'm sure they pay attention to what he does, or else it means that they don't give a damn about all of their servants. They probably don't treat with him personally, but they must send their minions and greater daemons to interact with the Despoiler.

He has failed thirteen times, at the first hurdle, everytime his force has disentergrated afterwards.
He even lost the PLanet Killer, the most potent weapon in his naval fleet.
So why have the gods forgiven him each time and allowed him the time to rebuild his force everytime.

Probably with huge sacrifices and further promises/pacts with the Dark Gods.
and theres absolutely no way the Ruinous Powers arent paying attention to him btw, regardless of whether hes failing or not

Revenent Reiko wrote:

Hlaine Larkin mk2 wrote:

Laodamia wrote:

Sir Pseudonymous wrote:
They probably haven't even noticed what he's doing yet. The Chaos gods are too big to concern themselves with any one war or potentially even one galaxy. Their lesser servants are the ones who care about conflicts, and Abbadon is roughly equal to any of them who would concern themselves with his actions.

Come on! Abbadon is leading the most powerful Chaotic armies since Horus and his heresy. I'm sure they pay attention to what he does, or else it means that they don't give a damn about all of their servants. They probably don't treat with him personally, but they must send their minions and greater daemons to interact with the Despoiler.

He has failed thirteen times, at the first hurdle, everytime his force has disentergrated afterwards.
He even lost the PLanet Killer, the most potent weapon in his naval fleet.
So why have the gods forgiven him each time and allowed him the time to rebuild his force everytime.

Probably with huge sacrifices and further promises/pacts with the Dark Gods.

Laodamia wrote:

Sir Pseudonymous wrote:
They probably haven't even noticed what he's doing yet. The Chaos gods are too big to concern themselves with any one war or potentially even one galaxy. Their lesser servants are the ones who care about conflicts, and Abbadon is roughly equal to any of them who would concern themselves with his actions.

Come on! Abbadon is leading the most powerful Chaotic armies since Horus and his heresy. I'm sure they pay attention to what he does, or else it means that they don't give a damn about all of their servants. They probably don't treat with him personally, but they must send their minions and greater daemons to interact with the Despoiler.

Psienesis wrote:

Laodamia wrote:

Sir Pseudonymous wrote:
They probably haven't even noticed what he's doing yet. The Chaos gods are too big to concern themselves with any one war or potentially even one galaxy. Their lesser servants are the ones who care about conflicts, and Abbadon is roughly equal to any of them who would concern themselves with his actions.

Come on! Abbadon is leading the most powerful Chaotic armies since Horus and his heresy. I'm sure they pay attention to what he does, or else it means that they don't give a damn about all of their servants. They probably don't treat with him personally, but they must send their minions and greater daemons to interact with the Despoiler.

They don't care about him. At all. Or, for that matter, *any* of their servants. The Chaos Gods are eternal, and know that, ultimately, their victory is assured, as the universe will undergo entropic heat-death and simply boil away into a chaotic miasma of dead stars and shattered worlds devoid of life, regardless of what they do. The forces of order in the IoM simply, by defeating the Chaos fleets, the cults, the machinations of Daemon Princes and Greater Daemons and their ilk, delay the inevitable.

This is, of course, a great source of entertainment and humor to the Ruinous Powers, so they continue to play the game, throwing away the lives, minds and souls of their mortal minions like so many toy soldiers on a battle-table spanning the galaxy.

Laodamia wrote:

Revenent Reiko wrote:

Hlaine Larkin mk2 wrote:

Laodamia wrote:

Sir Pseudonymous wrote:
They probably haven't even noticed what he's doing yet. The Chaos gods are too big to concern themselves with any one war or potentially even one galaxy. Their lesser servants are the ones who care about conflicts, and Abbadon is roughly equal to any of them who would concern themselves with his actions.

Come on! Abbadon is leading the most powerful Chaotic armies since Horus and his heresy. I'm sure they pay attention to what he does, or else it means that they don't give a damn about all of their servants. They probably don't treat with him personally, but they must send their minions and greater daemons to interact with the Despoiler.

He has failed thirteen times, at the first hurdle, everytime his force has disentergrated afterwards.
He even lost the PLanet Killer, the most potent weapon in his naval fleet.
So why have the gods forgiven him each time and allowed him the time to rebuild his force everytime.

Probably with huge sacrifices and further promises/pacts with the Dark Gods.

Haaaaa! Ok I get it now!

Abbadon is trying to get to Terra because he needs money to pay for a new planet killer, since he ruined the paint job of the previous one!

Psienesis wrote:
They don't care about him. At all. Or, for that matter, *any* of their servants. The Chaos Gods are eternal, and know that, ultimately, their victory is assured, as the universe will undergo entropic heat-death and simply boil away into a chaotic miasma of dead stars and shattered worlds devoid of life, regardless of what they do. The forces of order in the IoM simply, by defeating the Chaos fleets, the cults, the machinations of Daemon Princes and Greater Daemons and their ilk, delay the inevitable.

This is, of course, a great source of entertainment and humor to the Ruinous Powers, so they continue to play the game, throwing away the lives, minds and souls of their mortal minions like so many toy soldiers on a battle-table spanning the galaxy.

Brother Coa wrote:

Psienesis wrote:
They don't care about him. At all. Or, for that matter, *any* of their servants. The Chaos Gods are eternal, and know that, ultimately, their victory is assured, as the universe will undergo entropic heat-death and simply boil away into a chaotic miasma of dead stars and shattered worlds devoid of life, regardless of what they do. The forces of order in the IoM simply, by defeating the Chaos fleets, the cults, the machinations of Daemon Princes and Greater Daemons and their ilk, delay the inevitable.

This is, of course, a great source of entertainment and humor to the Ruinous Powers, so they continue to play the game, throwing away the lives, minds and souls of their mortal minions like so many toy soldiers on a battle-table spanning the galaxy.

There is a fail in your logic - what will Chaos Gods do when our universe is done for? Eventually die out?

And one more thing it is not logical to me - Baneblade. It's 319 tones heavy! How the hell roads support that weight?
I heard that Germans actually build one super-heavy tank ( 188 tones ), but it was so heavy that no bridge and no road could support it. Baneblade can go anywhere, enev on street fight - and it's almost double heavier.

Brother Coa wrote:And one more thing it is not logical to me - Baneblade. It's 319 tones heavy! How the hell roads support that weight?
I heard that Germans actually build one super-heavy tank ( 188 tones ), but it was so heavy that no bridge and no road could support it. Baneblade can go anywhere, enev on street fight - and it's almost double heavier.

Laodamia wrote:

Brother Coa wrote:And one more thing it is not logical to me - Baneblade. It's 319 tones heavy! How the hell roads support that weight?
I heard that Germans actually build one super-heavy tank ( 188 tones ), but it was so heavy that no bridge and no road could support it. Baneblade can go anywhere, enev on street fight - and it's almost double heavier.

It forces the road to support its weight by being super-awesome. That's all you need to know. Trying to think about it will only give you a baaaad headache.

iproxtaco wrote:
Generally Eldar DO control the side of themselves that created Slannesh. The Eldar Paths? Every Eldar bar the pirates have controlled their excessiveness side to some degree, even The Exodites. Yes I agree to an extent. The Eldar believe they should be the ones to rule the galaxy and that they are superior, but they would befriend races like The Interex because they see them as sophisticated and moral, and more like the Eldar than the Imperium.

Yes, the Imperium IS heavy handed with its own people. You're talking about a very specific group that is a very small minority, and even then the Imperium don't treat the matter delicately. Every world has to round up their psykers, so they can be taken to Terra for various purposes that could end up being mercilessly sacrificed to The Emperor. The Black Ships that do this job are described as horrible places that only those of steely resolve can endure a trip on. Any rouge psykers are killed, large syndicates end up having half the innocent population killed, and worlds fallen under the sway of a rouge psyker or if a psyker has opened the Warp is scoured of taint killing a large amount of the population, or Exterminatus is carried out to kill a few corrupt.

I never said the Eldar were a moral species, you made that up. I said they are more moral than the Imperium. They can tolerate civilized Xenos, they won't destroy entire systems to find a few traitors, but yes, they would gladly bring the Imperium to its knees and destroy it to bring about the return of The Eldar Empire. Explain this point about Human Psykers, that sentence is nigh impossible to understand.

Enslaver Plagues. Deaathwatch Corel Rulebook pg 316 wrote:
"Call them what you will-Krell, Psyrens or Ensalvers. Just one witch, unsanctioned, caused the destruction of Hive Skorpios when one of those things used her brain as a gateway to this world. Within three days the entire hive's population was reduced to drooling,, mind slaves. Withing three weeks and entire continent was at war. And all because the governor though his family should be exempt from the psyker cull and refused to give his daughter to the Black Ships" - Inquisitor Mallen, Ordo Xenos

Goddard wrote:Ahh but a Chainfist is not entirely a dreadnought close combat weapon, niether is a siesmic hammer, and niether are blood talons.

Ascalam wrote:The emperor's gold-plated ass on a tray, nothing less

Corporal_Reznov wrote:

Ascalam wrote:The emperor's gold-plated ass on a tray, nothing less

Meaning what?
Can you tell me why do 40kers mock about the Emps throne? He's existence on the throne is said to be an eternal torment seeing as his spirit is battling in the warp and the warp has no time.

BaronIveagh wrote:

Corporal_Reznov wrote:

Ascalam wrote:The emperor's gold-plated ass on a tray, nothing less

Meaning what?
Can you tell me why do 40kers mock about the Emps throne? He's existence on the throne is said to be an eternal torment seeing as his spirit is battling in the warp and the warp has no time.

Because he's sitting on a giant golden toilet with psychic rims and spinnahz? I mean, seriously!

BaronIveagh wrote:
Because he's sitting on a giant golden toilet with psychic rims and spinnahz? I mean, seriously!

zilegil wrote:Surely they might have the blade of a knife at a different angle? You know so that it is at right angles to the hilt, so it makes an L shape. Out of the multitude of races in 40k, one of them must make them different.
Also I except that the eldar, who are similar psychologicaly to humans, have similar ways of building things, but necrons? well we don't know much about the necrontyr, maybe their guns are the same as the guns used by necrons.

Goddard wrote:The fact that only the Blood Raven's arm their dreadnoughts with 2 dreadnought close combat weapons.

Corporal_Reznov wrote:

BaronIveagh wrote:
Because he's sitting on a giant golden toilet with psychic rims and spinnahz? I mean, seriously!

No, you be serious. The so called Golden Throne is a life support machine not a toilet. The Emps existence on the throne has been said to be an eternal torment from almost the very beginning of 40k fluff. Th very Imperium that he founded is mockery of everything he ever stood for. Science and reason was what he supported not stupid fanaticism. He always stated he was not a god, its humanity that put him up to be a god not him. Its humanity that has failed the Emp not him failing humanity.

Brother Coa wrote:
That "toilet" is the most advance peace of technology Imperium have. To be able to sustain someone near death for 10.000 years + have a warp gate beneath it...
Golden throne is a master peace of lost Human knowledge. Only Chaos fans call it toilet...but it's ok, since CSM look like they come out of the sewer

The Eldar look down on all races for being inferior while they are superior due to them being oldest and created as perfect by the Old ones- this is what Eldar believe. They say that they should rule the galaxy and its not because of them being better at rulership. They ruled the entire galaxy for millions of years during the eons of the Eldar empire, an empire that fell and other races took its place. The Eldar want the return of the empire so they can be safe and all-powerful again, a cause which craftworld Biel-tan champions. Biel-tan, are among the most overzealous and xenocidal of their kind: their one dream is to rebuild the ancient Eldar empire, using the dead bones of everything that stands in their way as foundation, a lot like the Imperium . Nice fellows indeed[sarcasm!].

You want some a small snippet of what happens to psykers who don't get picked up by the Black Ships -

Enslaver Plagues. Deaathwatch Corel Rulebook pg 316 wrote:
"Call them what you will-Krell, Psyrens or Ensalvers. Just one witch, unsanctioned, caused the destruction of Hive Skorpios when one of those things used her brain as a gateway to this world. Within three days the entire hive's population was reduced to drooling,, mind slaves. Withing three weeks and entire continent was at war. And all because the governor though his family should be exempt from the psyker cull and refused to give his daughter to the Black Ships" - Inquisitor Mallen, Ordo Xenos

Humanity, as a species is evolving into a psyker race. But because they are still evolving the dangers of psykers are more pronounced as human psykers have yet to evolve a defense against the warp. Eldar were created by the Old Ones to be a psyker race so they don't have to go through all the problems humanity does since the needed defenses are built-in.

Its unfair to use Eldar as a measure of how the Imperium should act seeing as the Eldar are older than humanity and are all psychic, yet they still get onto fights with each other, when humanity doesn't have what the Eldar have going for them. And the Eldar don't tolerate xeno species; they either ignore them, use them or wipe them out. The book 'Xenology' has your evidence of so called Eldar benevolence.

I call Interex lovey attitude with aliens to be madness seeing as the CABAL(an organization made up of aliens) were planning on having the entire human race go extinct to destroy chaos so that the galaxy could be saved for the xeno races or so they claim.

Corporal_Reznov wrote:

BaronIveagh wrote:

Corporal_Reznov wrote:

Ascalam wrote:The emperor's gold-plated ass on a tray, nothing less

Meaning what?
Can you tell me why do 40kers mock about the Emps throne? He's existence on the throne is said to be an eternal torment seeing as his spirit is battling in the warp and the warp has no time.

Because he's sitting on a giant golden toilet with psychic rims and spinnahz? I mean, seriously!

No, you be serious. The so called Golden Throne is a life support machine not a toilet. The Emps existence on the throne has been said to be an eternal torment from almost the very beginning of 40k fluff. Th very Imperium that he founded is mockery of everything he ever stood for. Science and reason was what he supported not stupid fanaticism. He always stated he was not a god, its humanity that put him up to be a god not him. Its humanity that has failed the Emp not him failing humanity.

Brother Coa wrote:

BaronIveagh wrote:
Because he's sitting on a giant golden toilet with psychic rims and spinnahz? I mean, seriously!

That "toilet" is the most advance peace of technology Imperium have. To be able to sustain someone near death for 10.000 years + have a warp gate beneath it...
Golden throne is a master peace of lost Human knowledge. Only Chaos fans call it toilet...but it's ok, since CSM look like they come out of the sewer

BaronIveagh wrote:Behold! The Golden Throne!

Brother Coa wrote:
ANd the fact that Humanity say for every alien species that is " weak", when in reality every Ork is larger than Human, and it can carry more and kill every Human in 1 on 1 fight. ( except SM ). And Eldar thinking about Humans as "weak" and "primitive", yet Humanity didn't make new Chaos god that's eating their souls, surviving for 10.000 years even with all the sh** that is coming to consume us and every time stand victorious even at the most grim odds against us. And not to mention that Humanity control million worlds while Eldar have none left ( at least main worlds ).

The fact that Orks just make new ones and already have a armor and axe to give to everyone. Some even got a gun.

I will thing of more soon..............

Brother Coa wrote:
ANd the fact that Humanity say for every alien species that is " weak", when in reality every Ork is larger than Human, and it can carry more and kill every Human in 1 on 1 fight. ( except SM ). And Eldar thinking about Humans as "weak" and "primitive", yet Humanity didn't make new Chaos god that's eating their souls, surviving for 10.000 years even with all the sh** that is coming to consume us and every time stand victorious even at the most grim odds against us. And not to mention that Humanity control million worlds while Eldar have none left ( at least main worlds ).

The fact that Orks just make new ones and already have a armor and axe to give to everyone. Some even got a gun.

I will thing of more soon..............

Brother Coa wrote:But the most odd thing in 40k to me is Shas'la T'au Kais from Fire Warrior.

The fact that one Fire Warrior alone destroy that much IG, SM, Techpriest, CSM, Obliterators, Daemon Princess, Titan and even Lord of Change....

And after that he was just promoted to Shah'ui? What then you need to do to get Broadside?

Sothas wrote:

Brother Coa wrote:
ANd the fact that Humanity say for every alien species that is " weak", when in reality every Ork is larger than Human, and it can carry more and kill every Human in 1 on 1 fight. ( except SM ). And Eldar thinking about Humans as "weak" and "primitive", yet Humanity didn't make new Chaos god that's eating their souls, surviving for 10.000 years even with all the sh** that is coming to consume us and every time stand victorious even at the most grim odds against us. And not to mention that Humanity control million worlds while Eldar have none left ( at least main worlds ).

The fact that Orks just make new ones and already have a armor and axe to give to everyone. Some even got a gun.

I will thing of more soon..............

Um... Humanity created the other ones. Eldar only created one. Granted, it was a much more catastrophic event, but the dark ages were just that bad.

Also, Eldar have several actual worlds left, and that's not including exodite worlds. Real eldar planets, while rare, do exist. Especially after the creation of the Eldar Path system, humanity really is barbaric compared to the focused mind of just a single eldar. Humans worship a god that doesn't want them to worship him. Good job IoM, way to make a mokery of all that your beloved Emperor loved.

Also, Orks are tough, but they're not that bad. Their biggest problem is their ability to reproduce like mad.

Guardsman Nate wrote:

Brother Coa wrote:
ANd the fact that Humanity say for every alien species that is " weak", when in reality every Ork is larger than Human, and it can carry more and kill every Human in 1 on 1 fight. ( except SM ). And Eldar thinking about Humans as "weak" and "primitive", yet Humanity didn't make new Chaos god that's eating their souls, surviving for 10.000 years even with all the sh** that is coming to consume us and every time stand victorious even at the most grim odds against us. And not to mention that Humanity control million worlds while Eldar have none left ( at least main worlds ).

The fact that Orks just make new ones and already have a armor and axe to give to everyone. Some even got a gun.

I will thing of more soon..............

lol dude read the last chancers orks aint that tuff

Sothas wrote:
Um... Humanity created the other ones.

Guardsman Nate wrote:How often do you see 1 guardsmen?

DaemonJellybaby wrote:

Brother Coa wrote:But the most odd thing in 40k to me is Shas'la T'au Kais from Fire Warrior.

The fact that one Fire Warrior alone destroy that much IG, SM, Techpriest, CSM, Obliterators, Daemon Princess, Titan and even Lord of Change....

And after that he was just promoted to Shah'ui? What then you need to do to get Broadside?

Broadsides are shas'ui

You have to perform well once then pass a trial by fire to get promoted to Shasiu,
If Kais had done what he did several times over showing all the skills of a soldier, veteran and leader he would be bumped up to Shas'el or shaso'o
As tau are apparently space commies, they believe that everyone is equal so should not get promoted straight to Shas'o from shas'la
that would be like promoting a Private to General because of his combat ability rather than his leadership and strategy.

iproxtaco wrote:

The Eldar look down on all races for being inferior while they are superior due to them being oldest and created as perfect by the Old ones- this is what Eldar believe. They say that they should rule the galaxy and its not because of them being better at rulership. They ruled the entire galaxy for millions of years during the eons of the Eldar empire, an empire that fell and other races took its place. The Eldar want the return of the empire so they can be safe and all-powerful again, a cause which craftworld Biel-tan champions. Biel-tan, are among the most overzealous and xenocidal of their kind: their one dream is to rebuild the ancient Eldar empire, using the dead bones of everything that stands in their way as foundation, a lot like the Imperium . Nice fellows indeed[sarcasm!].

You want some a small snippet of what happens to psykers who don't get picked up by the Black Ships -

Enslaver Plagues. Deaathwatch Corel Rulebook pg 316 wrote:
"Call them what you will-Krell, Psyrens or Ensalvers. Just one witch, unsanctioned, caused the destruction of Hive Skorpios when one of those things used her brain as a gateway to this world. Within three days the entire hive's population was reduced to drooling,, mind slaves. Withing three weeks and entire continent was at war. And all because the governor though his family should be exempt from the psyker cull and refused to give his daughter to the Black Ships" - Inquisitor Mallen, Ordo Xenos

Humanity, as a species is evolving into a psyker race. But because they are still evolving the dangers of psykers are more pronounced as human psykers have yet to evolve a defense against the warp. Eldar were created by the Old Ones to be a psyker race so they don't have to go through all the problems humanity does since the needed defenses are built-in.

Its unfair to use Eldar as a measure of how the Imperium should act seeing as the Eldar are older than humanity and are all psychic, yet they still get onto fights with each other, when humanity doesn't have what the Eldar have going for them. And the Eldar don't tolerate xeno species; they either ignore them, use them or wipe them out. The book 'Xenology' has your evidence of so called Eldar benevolence.

I call Interex lovey attitude with aliens to be madness seeing as the CABAL(an organization made up of aliens) were planning on having the entire human race go extinct to destroy chaos so that the galaxy could be saved for the xeno races or so they claim.

Right, so you agree with me? The Eldar see themselves as superior. That doesn't necessarily mean they are, but that's just what the Eldar BELIEVE. You really want me to repeat the point? I know the Eldar would like to rule the galaxy again, I pretty much said that twice. They would happily destroy the Imperium to do so, I SAID THAT.

What's the point in this snippet? To more iterate my point? Good.

What argument are you putting forward with this thing about humans evolving into a race of psykers? I completely understand that this is happening to an extent but I don't see what point you're trying to make.

I'm not using the Eldar as a measure of how the Imperium should act, I'm simply saying the Eldar are more moral than the Imperium, but the Imperium has it's reasons. Well, ignoring a species is tolerating it, Interex are a prime example. They had contact with the Eldar, the Eldar trusted them with knowledge of Chaos. That's tolerating them. That's GOOD RELATIONS. Does the Imperium have good relations with a xenos species? Nope. Not one.

So you're saying alliances between humans and aliens are wrong? Tau? There are quite a lot of humans peacefully serving the Tau. That's not a hostile or bad relationship. Now I'm not saying the Tau are great guys but that's an example of good relations. The Interex are no different. Their Empire was large and prosperous, their way of life was clean and of a high standard and their technology was highly advanced. All this and they never eradicated a xenos species. The Megarachnid just wanted to expand and destroy the Interex, no diplomacy or negotiations, just merciless war, and yet the Interex still had a high sense of morality. They thought they had no right to make a species extinct so quarantined them to live on a planet but lacking the capability to attack the Interex again. One Cabal of aliens is not a generalisation.

Corporal_Reznov wrote:

Sothas wrote:

Brother Coa wrote:
ANd the fact that Humanity say for every alien species that is " weak", when in reality every Ork is larger than Human, and it can carry more and kill every Human in 1 on 1 fight. ( except SM ). And Eldar thinking about Humans as "weak" and "primitive", yet Humanity didn't make new Chaos god that's eating their souls, surviving for 10.000 years even with all the sh** that is coming to consume us and every time stand victorious even at the most grim odds against us. And not to mention that Humanity control million worlds while Eldar have none left ( at least main worlds ).

The fact that Orks just make new ones and already have a armor and axe to give to everyone. Some even got a gun.

I will thing of more soon..............

Um... Humanity created the other ones. Eldar only created one. Granted, it was a much more catastrophic event, but the dark ages were just that bad.

Also, Eldar have several actual worlds left, and that's not including exodite worlds. Real eldar planets, while rare, do exist. Especially after the creation of the Eldar Path system, humanity really is barbaric compared to the focused mind of just a single eldar. Humans worship a god that doesn't want them to worship him. Good job IoM, way to make a mokery of all that your beloved Emperor loved.

Also, Orks are tough, but they're not that bad. Their biggest problem is their ability to reproduce like mad.

Friend, your wrong. Humanity helped the 3 gods of chaos come to real power but humanity didn't form them. They were formed as an after-effect of the Necron-Old one war. As for the Eldar they were the ones who gave the powers of chaos the ability to screw around with the material world seeing as how the veil between the Warp and the Real world was weakened via the forming of the eye of terror.

Second, humanity praying for the GEOM as god may actually be turning him into a god. Plus lets face it the 40k setting makes atheism incorrect and religion right.

Brother Coa wrote:

DaemonJellybaby wrote:

Brother Coa wrote:But the most odd thing in 40k to me is Shas'la T'au Kais from Fire Warrior.

The fact that one Fire Warrior alone destroy that much IG, SM, Techpriest, CSM, Obliterators, Daemon Princess, Titan and even Lord of Change....

And after that he was just promoted to Shah'ui? What then you need to do to get Broadside?

Broadsides are shas'ui

You have to perform well once then pass a trial by fire to get promoted to Shasiu,
If Kais had done what he did several times over showing all the skills of a soldier, veteran and leader he would be bumped up to Shas'el or shaso'o
As tau are apparently space commies, they believe that everyone is equal so should not get promoted straight to Shas'o from shas'la
that would be like promoting a Private to General because of his combat ability rather than his leadership and strategy.

You must past 2 trials by fire to earn a battlesuit. Kais just pass one and he bacame veteran ( he must wait 4 years to undergo another one ). And O\kais didn't do that again - after event's from the game he was locked down in mental institution. He got a little while fighting Chaos...
And even if he earned a battlesuit. What you must do after all that to earn rank of commander? Kill the Emperor? close the Eye of Terror?

Anvildude wrote:So, he's the God-Emperor of Atheism?

Shayden wrote:Any reason why didn't Abbadon use the Planet-Killer on Cadia? I mean other than the fact that he can out-stupid your average ork.

Shayden wrote:Any reason why didn't Abbadon use the Planet-Killer on Cadia? I mean other than the fact that he can out-stupid your average ork.

Sir Pseudonymous wrote:

Shayden wrote:Any reason why didn't Abbadon use the Planet-Killer on Cadia? I mean other than the fact that he can out-stupid your average ork.

Wouldn't destroying Cadia close up the only way out of the Eye of Terror, seeing as how the pylons there are the only reason it's stable enough to travel through?

Anvildude wrote:

Sir Pseudonymous wrote:

Shayden wrote:Any reason why didn't Abbadon use the Planet-Killer on Cadia? I mean other than the fact that he can out-stupid your average ork.

Wouldn't destroying Cadia close up the only way out of the Eye of Terror, seeing as how the pylons there are the only reason it's stable enough to travel through?

Wait, if some pylons on Cadia are keeping the eye Open, wouldn't the Imperium want to close the eye, by destroying the pylons?

Tyranic Marta wrote:

Anvildude wrote:

Sir Pseudonymous wrote:

Shayden wrote:Any reason why didn't Abbadon use the Planet-Killer on Cadia? I mean other than the fact that he can out-stupid your average ork.

Wouldn't destroying Cadia close up the only way out of the Eye of Terror, seeing as how the pylons there are the only reason it's stable enough to travel through?

Wait, if some pylons on Cadia are keeping the eye Open, wouldn't the Imperium want to close the eye, by destroying the pylons?

Guys, thers a reason this thread is called the ODD things in 40K

theres probably no logical reason as to why they wouldnt do that, or perhaps a fluff oversight by gw

Anvildude wrote:

Sir Pseudonymous wrote:

Shayden wrote:Any reason why didn't Abbadon use the Planet-Killer on Cadia? I mean other than the fact that he can out-stupid your average ork.

Wouldn't destroying Cadia close up the only way out of the Eye of Terror, seeing as how the pylons there are the only reason it's stable enough to travel through?

Wait, if some pylons on Cadia are keeping the eye Open, wouldn't the Imperium want to close the eye, by destroying the pylons?

Grey Templar wrote:

actually, the Pylons are keeping the Eye from spreading further.


they are a Necron construct intended to keep the Warp Anomoly closed.

Grey Templar wrote:Plot holes.


the most recent fluff actually puts the Eldar Fall long before mankind took to the stars.

Librius Machina wrote:Which sister decided that a giant organ that fires mortars by playing an organ was a practical idea?

KamikazeCanuck wrote:

Grey Templar wrote:Plot holes.


the most recent fluff actually puts the Eldar Fall long before mankind took to the stars.

We've been over this: it doesn't.

Grey Templar wrote:Plot holes.


the most recent fluff actually puts the Eldar Fall long before mankind took to the stars.

Hlaine Larkin mk2 wrote:where are you getting the idea that the Star-Child isn't canon?

Grey Templar wrote:No, they just haven't talked about it any more.

its still valid.

Ascalam wrote:Pg 273 3rd Edition rulebook:

excerpts - it's a longish story:

'The members of the cult were wholly unaware of their heretical ideals. They believed their doctrines were serving the Emperor in the guise of the Star Child. They were assured that this Star Child entity was merely another aspect of the Benificent Emperor, a more benign creature than the Emperor of all Mankind'

'At first I was given momentary pause and considered the possibility that indeed these people had been chosen by the Emperor for some higher purpose, though i never credited for a moment (their claim) that they were the Emperor's offspring.

'Rebel humans, ghastly abhumans and even the vile eldar consorted with these Sensei. Such hideous companions would never be tolerated by a true Favourite of the Emperor and I ordered the cult examined in more detail'

'The Sensei believed that they would achieve a higher state of being when the Star Child would grip them in rapture and elevate them... this elevation, which they called the Apotheosis struck a chord with my learned colleague, Inquisitor Alexio, who reminded us of the deluded belief of Chaos worshippers thattheir god would grant them eternal life and everlasting power. Spurred on by these thoughts we iexamined the star cult in more detail'

' ... as we examined the cult more closely we started recognising certain phrases, gestures and ceremonial accoutrments which stirred our memories of the Thrandros cult we destroyed fourteen years ago.'

'the thrandos cult was utterly dedicated to the worship of the Great Sorceror, the Architect of Fate (Tzeench), here we saw sigils and signs pointing towards that fell deity'

'Our suspicions were confirmed weeks later, when Alexio's Emperor-Gifted Inner Eye detected the foul taint of the Great Sorceror during one of the cult (Temple of the Star Child) 's main ceremonies. This was incontrovertible proof that the Temple of the Star Child posed a threat'

'Our request for aid was answered by the Salamanders Chapter of the Adeptus Astartes. They executed the Annihillation of the Star Cult with admirable expediency.'

It mentions four Sensei not being present, and being hunted, with the cult wiped out. It's pretty conculsive that the Temple of the Star Child was a front for Tzeentch worship, with the worshippers firmly believing that they were worshipping a benign version of the emperor.

I would say your Canon just got unloaded, as they were all but squatted (4 left) and were revealed to be deamon worshippers to boot


Unless you have something on the further adventures of the 4 remaining, with defiinitive proof that they weren't Tzeench worshippers (without knowing that they were, possibly? )

Ascalam wrote:Pg 273 3rd Edition rulebook:

excerpts - it's a longish story:

'The members of the cult were wholly unaware of their heretical ideals. They believed their doctrines were serving the Emperor in the guise of the Star Child. They were assured that this Star Child entity was merely another aspect of the Benificent Emperor, a more benign creature than the Emperor of all Mankind'

'At first I was given momentary pause and considered the possibility that indeed these people had been chosen by the Emperor for some higher purpose, though i never credited for a moment (their claim) that they were the Emperor's offspring.

'Rebel humans, ghastly abhumans and even the vile eldar consorted with these Sensei. Such hideous companions would never be tolerated by a true Favourite of the Emperor and I ordered the cult examined in more detail'

'The Sensei believed that they would achieve a higher state of being when the Star Child would grip them in rapture and elevate them... this elevation, which they called the Apotheosis struck a chord with my learned colleague, Inquisitor Alexio, who reminded us of the deluded belief of Chaos worshippers thattheir god would grant them eternal life and everlasting power. Spurred on by these thoughts we iexamined the star cult in more detail'

' ... as we examined the cult more closely we started recognising certain phrases, gestures and ceremonial accoutrments which stirred our memories of the Thrandros cult we destroyed fourteen years ago.'

'the thrandos cult was utterly dedicated to the worship of the Great Sorceror, the Architect of Fate (Tzeench), here we saw sigils and signs pointing towards that fell deity'

'Our suspicions were confirmed weeks later, when Alexio's Emperor-Gifted Inner Eye detected the foul taint of the Great Sorceror during one of the cult (Temple of the Star Child) 's main ceremonies. This was incontrovertible proof that the Temple of the Star Child posed a threat'

'Our request for aid was answered by the Salamanders Chapter of the Adeptus Astartes. They executed the Annihillation of the Star Cult with admirable expediency.'

It mentions four Sensei not being present, and being hunted, with the cult wiped out. It's pretty conculsive that the Temple of the Star Child was a front for Tzeentch worship, with the worshippers firmly believing that they were worshipping a benign version of the emperor.

I would say your Canon just got unloaded, as they were all but squatted (4 left) and were revealed to be deamon worshippers to boot


Unless you have something on the further adventures of the 4 remaining, with defiinitive proof that they weren't Tzeench worshippers (without knowing that they were, possibly? )

Mustela wrote:Tau tanks are named after earth fish extinct for countless millenia.

purplefood wrote:Diaspora

NagothDaCleaver wrote:

purplefood wrote:Diaspora

Ooohh... good word.
You Brits and your shiny vocabulary.

NagothDaCleaver wrote:

Ascalam wrote:Pg 273 3rd Edition rulebook:

excerpts - it's a longish story:

'The members of the cult were wholly unaware of their heretical ideals. They believed their doctrines were serving the Emperor in the guise of the Star Child. They were assured that this Star Child entity was merely another aspect of the Benificent Emperor, a more benign creature than the Emperor of all Mankind'

'At first I was given momentary pause and considered the possibility that indeed these people had been chosen by the Emperor for some higher purpose, though i never credited for a moment (their claim) that they were the Emperor's offspring.

'Rebel humans, ghastly abhumans and even the vile eldar consorted with these Sensei. Such hideous companions would never be tolerated by a true Favourite of the Emperor and I ordered the cult examined in more detail'

'The Sensei believed that they would achieve a higher state of being when the Star Child would grip them in rapture and elevate them... this elevation, which they called the Apotheosis struck a chord with my learned colleague, Inquisitor Alexio, who reminded us of the deluded belief of Chaos worshippers thattheir god would grant them eternal life and everlasting power. Spurred on by these thoughts we iexamined the star cult in more detail'

' ... as we examined the cult more closely we started recognising certain phrases, gestures and ceremonial accoutrments which stirred our memories of the Thrandros cult we destroyed fourteen years ago.'

'the thrandos cult was utterly dedicated to the worship of the Great Sorceror, the Architect of Fate (Tzeench), here we saw sigils and signs pointing towards that fell deity'

'Our suspicions were confirmed weeks later, when Alexio's Emperor-Gifted Inner Eye detected the foul taint of the Great Sorceror during one of the cult (Temple of the Star Child) 's main ceremonies. This was incontrovertible proof that the Temple of the Star Child posed a threat'

'Our request for aid was answered by the Salamanders Chapter of the Adeptus Astartes. They executed the Annihillation of the Star Cult with admirable expediency.'

It mentions four Sensei not being present, and being hunted, with the cult wiped out. It's pretty conculsive that the Temple of the Star Child was a front for Tzeentch worship, with the worshippers firmly believing that they were worshipping a benign version of the emperor.

I would say your Canon just got unloaded, as they were all but squatted (4 left) and were revealed to be deamon worshippers to boot


Unless you have something on the further adventures of the 4 remaining, with definitive proof that they weren't Tzeench worshippers (without knowing that they were, possibly? )

Yes, I have the book too.
Here are some things to consider about this story:
-It is written from the point of view of an Inquisitor, it is not presented in narrative that it is a fact of the universe that the Star Child was Tzeench.
-The concept of the Emperor being reborn is considered a radical view by most Inquisitors. Inquisitors who believe this Philosophy are Thorians. Thorians are the most radical of the Puritan Inquisitors, and even within the Thorians only members of the Illuminati know of the Star Child and the Sensei. So if this Inquisitor was not a Thorian, than he certainly would view the cult he discovered as a bunch of Heretics.
-The report says that the rituals of the Star Child cult are similar in kind to a Tzeenchian cult, this could mean many things none of which are solid fact or can be proved. It could be that the Inquisitor is jumping to a conclusion that the Star child is related to Tzeench because he doesn't under stand it. Or the Thrandros cult was a Tzeentch cult trying to defame the real Sensei. Tzeench is, after all, the Master Manipulator
-The Inquisitor says he is going off to investigate other leads suggesting the 'cult' hasn't been completely wiped out.

Anyway, my point is that the reference in 3rd edition in no way counters the previous references to the Starchild and if anything validates them.

Ascalam wrote:



Most of the 'Official' fluff is written from the point of veiw of an Inquisitor or an Adeptus Mechanicus Adept, when it is related in the form of a story rather than a timeline. These stories are generally considered to be canon. The fact it was delivered from an Inquisitor's point of view does not invalidate the evidence. It does allow for a point of possible bias, but the inquisitor in question doesn't seem to be a raving psycho (for an inquisitor) as he was willing to entertain the idea that the cult was in fact blessed by the Big E.

The story mentions that the cult was using tzeentchi gestures,verbiage and trapping, and a tzeentchi presence was detected at one of their great rituals, but this doesn't make it Tzeentchi?

To me it sounds like GW putting down the previous fluff in a fairly thorough way, but indicating that the Sensei were either willing or unwitting Tzeentchi cultists, then having the cult purged by a SM chapter. Much like suddenly declaring that all the Squat worlds were annihilated by the Nids.


If you want to believe that the rest of the Sensei are lurking in a hidden lair somewhere, with absolutely no proof of their existence mentioned since the story in which their cult is shown to be daemonic and purged, then feel free The last mention of the Sensei in official fluff that i've found is them getting annihilated. If Annihilated isn't enough for them to be gone (given that there has been no further mention of them) then what is?

While we're at it, 2 doors down from that lair there are loyalist Thosuand Sons that want a word over the mistreatment of Magnus , and then across the way are the lost 2 legions in stasis, waiting for Arthur to return to Britain and lead them

NagothDaCleaver wrote:

Grey Templar wrote:No, they just haven't talked about it any more.

its still valid.

Grey Templar is correct. There are people on the internet who shout this "non cannon!" buisness about the Starchild and Sensei all the time, really just because they can...it's the internet, but just because something is old doesn't make it noncannon. Look at the Jokero, they are from rouge trader too and are suddenly thrust back to the forefront in the GK codex.

Fact is, for this not to be cannon, GW would have to make an official statement that the Star Child/Illuminati/Sensei are not cannon or are all dead (like they did with the Squats).

Just because some random folks on the internet convinced themselves of something, doesn' make it true.

Grey Templar wrote:

There are cases of Old fluff becomeing non-cannon because it conflicts with newer stuff.


Newer Fluff always replaces Old fluff it contradicts.

unless old stuff is contradicted by newer stuff its still valid.

Ascalam wrote:

NagothDaCleaver wrote:

Ascalam wrote:Pg 273 3rd Edition rulebook:

excerpts - it's a longish story:

'The members of the cult were wholly unaware of their heretical ideals. They believed their doctrines were serving the Emperor in the guise of the Star Child. They were assured that this Star Child entity was merely another aspect of the Benificent Emperor, a more benign creature than the Emperor of all Mankind'

'At first I was given momentary pause and considered the possibility that indeed these people had been chosen by the Emperor for some higher purpose, though i never credited for a moment (their claim) that they were the Emperor's offspring.

'Rebel humans, ghastly abhumans and even the vile eldar consorted with these Sensei. Such hideous companions would never be tolerated by a true Favourite of the Emperor and I ordered the cult examined in more detail'

'The Sensei believed that they would achieve a higher state of being when the Star Child would grip them in rapture and elevate them... this elevation, which they called the Apotheosis struck a chord with my learned colleague, Inquisitor Alexio, who reminded us of the deluded belief of Chaos worshippers thattheir god would grant them eternal life and everlasting power. Spurred on by these thoughts we iexamined the star cult in more detail'

' ... as we examined the cult more closely we started recognising certain phrases, gestures and ceremonial accoutrments which stirred our memories of the Thrandros cult we destroyed fourteen years ago.'

'the thrandos cult was utterly dedicated to the worship of the Great Sorceror, the Architect of Fate (Tzeench), here we saw sigils and signs pointing towards that fell deity'

'Our suspicions were confirmed weeks later, when Alexio's Emperor-Gifted Inner Eye detected the foul taint of the Great Sorceror during one of the cult (Temple of the Star Child) 's main ceremonies. This was incontrovertible proof that the Temple of the Star Child posed a threat'

'Our request for aid was answered by the Salamanders Chapter of the Adeptus Astartes. They executed the Annihillation of the Star Cult with admirable expediency.'

It mentions four Sensei not being present, and being hunted, with the cult wiped out. It's pretty conculsive that the Temple of the Star Child was a front for Tzeentch worship, with the worshippers firmly believing that they were worshipping a benign version of the emperor.

I would say your Canon just got unloaded, as they were all but squatted (4 left) and were revealed to be deamon worshippers to boot


Unless you have something on the further adventures of the 4 remaining, with definitive proof that they weren't Tzeench worshippers (without knowing that they were, possibly? )

Yes, I have the book too.
Here are some things to consider about this story:
-It is written from the point of view of an Inquisitor, it is not presented in narrative that it is a fact of the universe that the Star Child was Tzeench.
-The concept of the Emperor being reborn is considered a radical view by most Inquisitors. Inquisitors who believe this Philosophy are Thorians. Thorians are the most radical of the Puritan Inquisitors, and even within the Thorians only members of the Illuminati know of the Star Child and the Sensei. So if this Inquisitor was not a Thorian, than he certainly would view the cult he discovered as a bunch of Heretics.
-The report says that the rituals of the Star Child cult are similar in kind to a Tzeenchian cult, this could mean many things none of which are solid fact or can be proved. It could be that the Inquisitor is jumping to a conclusion that the Star child is related to Tzeench because he doesn't under stand it. Or the Thrandros cult was a Tzeentch cult trying to defame the real Sensei. Tzeench is, after all, the Master Manipulator
-The Inquisitor says he is going off to investigate other leads suggesting the 'cult' hasn't been completely wiped out.

Anyway, my point is that the reference in 3rd edition in no way counters the previous references to the Starchild and if anything validates them.

Most of the 'Official' fluff is written from the point of veiw of an Inquisitor or an Adeptus Mechanicus Adept, when it is related in the form of a story rather than a timeline. These stories are generally considered to be canon. The fact it was delivered from an Inquisitor's point of view does not invalidate the evidence. It does allow for a point of possible bias, but the inquisitor in question doesn't seem to be a raving psycho (for an inquisitor) as he was willing to entertain the idea that the cult was in fact blessed by the Big E.

The story mentions that the cult was using tzeentchi gestures,verbiage and trapping, and a tzeentchi presence was detected at one of their great rituals, but this doesn't make it Tzeentchi?

To me it sounds like GW putting down the previous fluff in a fairly thorough way, but indicating that the Sensei were either willing or unwitting Tzeentchi cultists, then having the cult purged by a SM chapter. Much like suddenly declaring that all the Squat worlds were annihilated by the Nids.


If you want to believe that the rest of the Sensei are lurking in a hidden lair somewhere, with absolutely no proof of their existence mentioned since the story in which their cult is shown to be daemonic and purged, then feel free The last mention of the Sensei in official fluff that i've found is them getting annihilated. If Annihilated isn't enough for them to be gone (given that there has been no further mention of them) then what is?

While we're at it, 2 doors down from that lair there are loyalist Thosuand Sons that want a word over the mistreatment of Magnus , and then across the way are the lost 2 legions in stasis, waiting for Arthur to return to Britain and lead them

Ascalam wrote:Got eaten by the orks

Nid/Squat sandwiches

Hlaine Larkin mk2 wrote:But those guys made levithens,