Maybe this should be in Off-Topic? I don't know. It's GW related at least.

So back in 2001 I was an employee at the local Games Workshop store in Concord Mills (how I miss it). I still have my GW Staff polo and employee handbook. Do I get geek cred for those? Or shame? Any other former (or current) GW employees in our midst?

We often joked about how our store chapter should have been the Thousand Sons, as we were stuck in some lost and forgotten corner of the Galaxy(United States) far away from the Light of the Emperor(Maryland and/or any other GW store). It became moreso the case later with the Inquisition(Regional) came down and cleared out all the employees in a massive purge for the misdeeds of our manager.

Current employees will not admit their identity as it could compromise their position with the company.

Ah ha. I was not aware of that rule. The handbook I (still) have is from an era before Forums were very big. Apparently I have truly arcane lore!

Anyone want an out of date Games Workshop Employee Handbook?

Try the Swap Shop...

GW, what a horrible company to work for. Cheap mini's was the only upside to the job. Low pay, harassment, and wrongful termination were my experience.

I opened the first store in Annapolis MD. One of the other employee's was Dirty Steve from White Dwarf fame. We were both new hires. This was back in '96-'97.

Our regional manager was an absolute terror (I cannot remember his name). He would come into the store and we would hear him SCREAMING at our manager in the back about unmet (and unreasonable) sales targets and whatever else he could concoct up. Once, Steve and I were working on a peice of terrain, a sort of ziggurat or pyramid for the then upcoming fantasy Lizardman release. We were both pretty proud of the way it looked and had put tons of time into it between us both. One visit, while he was performing his ritualistic screaming session with Dwayne (our manager), we heard a crash in the backroom. Steve and I were actually wondering if him and the Dwayne started fighting physically. The door opens, and the regional storms out of the store. Steve and I checked the backroom to see what had happened and our terrain peice was smashed. Apparently he did not like it and threw it against the wall.

Steve and I were totally aghast, you can imagine. Unfortunatly, we were all unaware of our rights as employees in the United States. If I had been a bit more informed at the time, I personally would of had him fired for this behavior.

My personal story goes a bit further. Apparently this regional over time had realised my distaste for him....and targeted me. I was constantly under fire for my "sales technique". Despite having highest sales in the store and second highest in his region for starter combo's sold (the only thing they tracked by employees at the time), my sales practices were not good enough. He saw me run a demo and I was very explanitory about the game. Explaining rules to customers and explaining the fun/hobby aspect of GW. I was not one of these annoying "in your face" employees that they have working for them today. You see, these guys will actually GET FIRED EVENTUALLY if they do not perform these annoying practices you experience today.

One day I showed up for work and Dwayne told me that I had been "Let go". Amazed, I asked him why. Like I said, I had some of the highest sales figures for the region and was really trying to go career with the company. I had hopes to get to be the manager of the next store. Anyway, the regional had told him to fire me b/c he had observed one of my demo games and I had not done it properly. I literally was fired from GW for not making machine gun noises for the kids I was running the demo for. I'm not kidding, not embellishing, this is the Gospel.

I dont know if Maryland is a "right to work" state or not, but this would've been more ammo against GW if I had decided to push the issue. I had never been verbally counciled, suspended, or had any disciplinary action against me during my time there. This termination was completely out of the blue.

My employment for GW was a nightmare. I should've been much more observant of employee's rights. In the end, I'm glad I didnt go on there. Retail is a crappy place to work, and when you work around it all day, the last thing you want to do when you come home is paint up your armies. The hobby was fun for me again after my distaste for all things GW wore off. I still have some sympathy for those guys in the store. When they approach me in their annoying ways asking me if I had seen the new Vampire Counts stuff even though I had just asked about the new codex for 40k coming out, I let it slide. I'm not angered by their annoying practices b/c I know why they do it. Pressure, pressure, and more pressure by the company. Some are probably afraid of losing their jobs.

Yea, I worked for GW and it was hell. HELL.

Your heresy has been noted, recorded and voxed to Terran kill teams.

Being a retail/sales assistant for any company is crap full stop.

Worked for many different places (never GW) and will never work in retail again.

I worked for GW some ten years ago at the randhurst store in Mt. Prospect, I can also agree with deadshane, the regional manager he speaks of was a grade A D-Bag. Nicest guy on the planet to your face but the minute you turned your back in went the daggers

@Deadshane1

Until recently I lived in Maryland and had no other place that was convenient to play other than the GW stores. I was not very happy with them.

I never went to the Annapolis store, but the other two I went two were not that great. One was full of the pushiest sales people I have even seen. In the other store I went to the people were okay, but they made people play by very wrong and strange rules. It was a strange combination of 5th edition and some half remembered rules from earlier editions.

Now I play at the Chicago Battle Bunker, even though it is a bit of a drive for me, the employees and the players there are of a much higher quality. I wonder if the same regional manager is still working in Maryland or what.

svendrex wrote:@Deadshane1

Until recently I lived in Maryland and had no other place that was convenient to play other than the GW stores. I was not very happy with them.

I never went to the Annapolis store, but the other two I went two were not that great. One was full of the pushiest sales people I have even seen. In the other store I went to the people were okay, but they made people play by very wrong and strange rules. It was a strange combination of 5th edition and some half remembered rules from earlier editions.

Now I play at the Chicago Battle Bunker, even though it is a bit of a drive for me, the employees and the players there are of a much higher quality. I wonder if the same regional manager is still working in Maryland or what.

the regional manager was "asked to quit" a few years back, needless to say all of his underhanded tactics came back to bit him and he and GW decided it was best for him to part ways

Deadshane1, are you talking about the GW that used to be in the Annapolis mall? I remember browsing that store on the weekends when I was a Midshipman at USNA in the early 2000's. Good times...

Bonegrinder wrote:Being a retail/sales assistant for any company is crap full stop.

Worked for many different places (never GW) and will never work in retail again.

She Who Must Be Obeyed and I agree that every person in the US should have to work in retail or food service as a teenager, so that everyone can experience what job hell really is.

Frazzled wrote:

Bonegrinder wrote:Being a retail/sales assistant for any company is crap full stop.

Worked for many different places (never GW) and will never work in retail again.

She Who Must Be Obeyed and I agree that every person in the US should have to work in retail or food service as a teenager, so that everyone can experience what job hell really is.

Like some sort of coming of age thing or a american rite of passage.

Have them drafted into retail, make them live the pure suckage.

Remember that the people who become mid-level managers in Retail are the same people who, in their early 20s, were told they weren't smart enough to be in actual Business School, and so with their prior course load just kinda sloughed off into Retail Management, which is the closest to Business Management that people who can't hack it in Business School can qualify for.

It used to be awesome for the reductions you got on stock, the reduction on metal stuff in particular was mental and meant staff could get some really cool armies which were outside most peoples price ranges. Although I hear now that the staff discount has been reduced somewhat.

Generally people last 6 months to a year I find, a few brave souls (and members of the old guard) exist here and there however

Bonegrinder wrote:

Frazzled wrote:

Bonegrinder wrote:Being a retail/sales assistant for any company is crap full stop.

Worked for many different places (never GW) and will never work in retail again.

She Who Must Be Obeyed and I agree that every person in the US should have to work in retail or food service as a teenager, so that everyone can experience what job hell really is.

Like some sort of coming of age thing or a american rite of passage.

Have them drafted into retail, make them live the pure suckage.

Exactly.

My old Redshirt now lines my ferret cage.

I guess I was lucky in that our store actually met our sales goals, or missed them by so little as to be easily forgiven. I still have my limited edition 4th edition 40k rulebook we won as a prize in some contest.

I still agree that the treatment of employees is sub-par. Their idea seems to be that you "get" to work for them, instead of a normal employer-employee relationship. I left to work for the new Hobby Town that opened nearby, and was amazed how well employees could be treated, even without a 50% employee discount.

But this really didn't start out as a G.W. bashing thread, so I'll just say that you get a little, tiny bit of geek cred- but only in the right circles.

Deadshane1 wrote:GW, what a horrible company to work for. Cheap mini's was the only upside to the job. Low pay, harassment, and wrongful termination were my experience.

I opened the first store in Annapolis MD. One of the other employee's was Dirty Steve from White Dwarf fame. We were both new hires. This was back in '96-'97.

Our regional manager was an absolute terror (I cannot remember his name). He would come into the store and we would hear him SCREAMING at our manager in the back about unmet (and unreasonable) sales targets and whatever else he could concoct up. Once, Steve and I were working on a peice of terrain, a sort of ziggurat or pyramid for the then upcoming fantasy Lizardman release. We were both pretty proud of the way it looked and had put tons of time into it between us both. One visit, while he was performing his ritualistic screaming session with Dwayne (our manager), we heard a crash in the backroom. Steve and I were actually wondering if him and the Dwayne started fighting physically. The door opens, and the regional storms out of the store. Steve and I checked the backroom to see what had happened and our terrain peice was smashed. Apparently he did not like it and threw it against the wall.

Steve and I were totally aghast, you can imagine. Unfortunatly, we were all unaware of our rights as employees in the United States. If I had been a bit more informed at the time, I personally would of had him fired for this behavior.

My personal story goes a bit further. Apparently this regional over time had realised my distaste for him....and targeted me. I was constantly under fire for my "sales technique". Despite having highest sales in the store and second highest in his region for starter combo's sold (the only thing they tracked by employees at the time), my sales practices were not good enough. He saw me run a demo and I was very explanitory about the game. Explaining rules to customers and explaining the fun/hobby aspect of GW. I was not one of these annoying "in your face" employees that they have working for them today. You see, these guys will actually GET FIRED EVENTUALLY if they do not perform these annoying practices you experience today.

One day I showed up for work and Dwayne told me that I had been "Let go". Amazed, I asked him why. Like I said, I had some of the highest sales figures for the region and was really trying to go career with the company. I had hopes to get to be the manager of the next store. Anyway, the regional had told him to fire me b/c he had observed one of my demo games and I had not done it properly. I literally was fired from GW for not making machine gun noises for the kids I was running the demo for. I'm not kidding, not embellishing, this is the Gospel.

I dont know if Maryland is a "right to work" state or not, but this would've been more ammo against GW if I had decided to push the issue. I had never been verbally counciled, suspended, or had any disciplinary action against me during my time there. This termination was completely out of the blue.

My employment for GW was a nightmare. I should've been much more observant of employee's rights. In the end, I'm glad I didnt go on there. Retail is a crappy place to work, and when you work around it all day, the last thing you want to do when you come home is paint up your armies. The hobby was fun for me again after my distaste for all things GW wore off. I still have some sympathy for those guys in the store. When they approach me in their annoying ways asking me if I had seen the new Vampire Counts stuff even though I had just asked about the new codex for 40k coming out, I let it slide. I'm not angered by their annoying practices b/c I know why they do it. Pressure, pressure, and more pressure by the company. Some are probably afraid of losing their jobs.

Yea, I worked for GW and it was hell. HELL.

The parellels between our experiences are truly amazing.

I worked at the St. Louis Mills store from the opening in '03 to the end of '04, and had almost the exact same experience. I'm actually thankful that I was let go, because it allowed me to look and find a much better job that paid much better and allowed me to actually use my skills, experience and schooling. (I was getting kinda comfortable there since they paid me as an assistant manager.)

I'm thankful to hear that the guy was let go, if it's true. I suspect it is. I vaguely remember meeting up with my former manager there at a Games day some years later and him telling me that he was forced to move on.

Grade A D-bag indeed.

If you work in the U.S. NEVER let a supervisor YELL at you. It's called Harassment, there are laws against it.

@Ruckdog

The Annapolis Mall location, (i think) opened after the initial annapolis location closed. The oringinal store was located in a strip mall right next to a large AMC or REGAL theatre. I forget what the strip mall was called.

I frequented the Annapolis store and the Bunker close by whenever I was in the Baltimore area. I remember the regional manager as I was pretty good friends with on of the managers up in NJ who was a wonderful guy. Some of the regulars mentioned GW "got to him." It was a joke, but I could see a real change in him over the years he worked for the company. Constantly worrying about meeting sales, if he'd get canned, etc.

Retails rough and the managers and regular employee's often seem to catche the brunt in the world of working for GW. Its always seemed backwards, why not work to retain quality employees? Having guys who know the hobby, know painting is better for consumers, and can inspire consumers to spend more, buy something just to work on. Briefly a store that died / got transitioned, GW Cherry Hill had a few employee's who didn't know the game. I think that hurt their sales at times. When your consistent patron's are doing your painting demo's, you know your in trouble.

Deadshane1 wrote:I'm thankful to hear that the guy was let go, if it's true. I suspect it is. I vaguely remember meeting up with my former manager there at a Games day some years later and him telling me that he was forced to move on.

Grade A D-bag indeed.

If you work in the U.S. NEVER let a supervisor YELL at you. It's called Harassment, there are laws against it.

@Ruckdog

The Annapolis Mall location, (i think) opened after the initial annapolis location closed. The oringinal store was located in a strip mall right next to a large AMC or REGAL theatre. I forget what the strip mall was called.

Supervisors can yell, if they yell at everyone equally. If they only yell at a few, or certain types of employees its Harassment.

I would have to say that this type of behavior is not exclusive to GW and is a systemic problem of any low wage retail environment. I worked for Wizards of the Coast when they had retail stores 10+ years ago and had a similar experience.

I've never been to an official GW store...

I don't think i'm missing much. I rather enjoy local retailers.

I worked there part time to help my buddy (the current manager) paint the required models that were constantly needing done (for the store and various GD events at the time). I only worked two days a week but got %60 off and the even sweeter bits order deals (basically %90 off metal bits).

It wasn't a real job to me so I never worried about much and the manager was a cool guy (still is!). Just sat at the paint table and painted/watched hot girls walk by. Ah...those were the days!

sourclams wrote:Remember that the people who become mid-level managers in Retail are the same people who, in their early 20s, were told they weren't smart enough to be in actual Business School, and so with their prior course load just kinda sloughed off into Retail Management, which is the closest to Business Management that people who can't hack it in Business School can qualify for.

Glad that makes you superior.

Cannerus_The_Unbearable wrote:

sourclams wrote:Remember that the people who become mid-level managers in Retail are the same people who, in their early 20s, were told they weren't smart enough to be in actual Business School, and so with their prior course load just kinda sloughed off into Retail Management, which is the closest to Business Management that people who can't hack it in Business School can qualify for.

Glad that makes you superior.

Example One in why everyone should work in retail or food service at least once. The codicil to that of course, is watch how a person treats those workers. Its an excellent window into their true personality ( tip from She Who Must Be Obeyed).

Deadshane1 wrote:I'm thankful to hear that the guy was let go, if it's true. I suspect it is. I vaguely remember meeting up with my former manager there at a Games day some years later and him telling me that he was forced to move on.

Grade A D-bag indeed.

If you work in the U.S. NEVER let a supervisor YELL at you. It's called Harassment, there are laws against it.

@Ruckdog

The Annapolis Mall location, (i think) opened after the initial annapolis location closed. The oringinal store was located in a strip mall right next to a large AMC or REGAL theatre. I forget what the strip mall was called.

It sounds like you might be talking about the Harbor Center (it has a large lighthouse in the parking lot).

Anyway, that's interesting; it sounds like GW is actually on their third Annapolis store!

Cannerus_The_Unbearable wrote:

sourclams wrote:Remember that the people who become mid-level managers in Retail are the same people who, in their early 20s, were told they weren't smart enough to be in actual Business School, and so with their prior course load just kinda sloughed off into Retail Management, which is the closest to Business Management that people who can't hack it in Business School can qualify for.

Glad that makes you superior.

Between High School and College, I worked retail/foodservice for about 5 years. I understand the Sales Associate Supervisory role from both the perspective of the subordinate insider and the aloof outsider.

Frazzled wrote:Example One in why everyone should work in retail or food service at least once. The codicil to that of course, is watch how a person treats those workers. Its an excellent window into their true personality ( tip from She Who Must Be Obeyed).

Yeah, as I've aged I've decided there's a difference between being force and standing up for ones self and being rude.

If I have to deal with a customer service line, I always try to be polite. Thank the rep, always be nice, treat them with respect. If they aren't helpful, ask to escalate, but don't demand things.

It worked this weekend. Had a screw up with vacation plans, the patch-up was less than satisfactory, but I was polite yet forceful and ended up getting a slight upgrade.Not having to change some plans was more important than the upgrade, but... Also made sure to let higher-ups know a rep was helpful.

Much the same, I know people who like to mess with telemarketers. I don't any more. They're (generally) just normal people who probably hate their job more than I hate mine. They don't deserve to be messed with. I jsut tell them I'm not interested and hang up. No games.

sourclams wrote:

Cannerus_The_Unbearable wrote:

sourclams wrote:Remember that the people who become mid-level managers in Retail are the same people who, in their early 20s, were told they weren't smart enough to be in actual Business School, and so with their prior course load just kinda sloughed off into Retail Management, which is the closest to Business Management that people who can't hack it in Business School can qualify for.

Glad that makes you superior.

Between High School and College, I worked retail/foodservice for about 5 years. I understand the Sales Associate Supervisory role from both the perspective of the subordinate insider and the aloof outsider.

Still makes you sound like an ass. You may not have intended that effect, but intent and effect can be two different things.

spireland wrote:

Supervisors can yell, if they yell at everyone equally. If they only yell at a few, or certain types of employees its Harassment.

I would have to say that this type of behavior is not exclusive to GW and is a systemic problem of any low wage retail environment. I worked for Wizards of the Coast when they had retail stores 10+ years ago and had a similar experience.

Actually, no they cannot. It's called creating a hostile work environment...and there are laws against it.

If a supervisor is yelling AT YOU, collectively or just you, he needs to back away from the coffee machine and calm down. Supervisors have no right to raise voices to employees. Not in America they don't.

Being someones supervisor does not all of a sudden give you the right to treat that person however you want. Speak to your subordinates politely, perhaps with anger, but politely. Yelling is unacceptable anywhere where employees know their rights.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Ruckdog wrote:

It sounds like you might be talking about the Harbor Center (it has a large lighthouse in the parking lot).

That's it, thats where it was.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Frazzled wrote:

Still makes you sound like an ass.

Rule #1 Frazz....be polite!

Deadshane1 wrote:

spireland wrote:

Supervisors can yell, if they yell at everyone equally. If they only yell at a few, or certain types of employees its Harassment.

I would have to say that this type of behavior is not exclusive to GW and is a systemic problem of any low wage retail environment. I worked for Wizards of the Coast when they had retail stores 10+ years ago and had a similar experience.

Actually, no they cannot. It's called creating a hostile work environment...and there are laws against it.

If a supervisor is yelling AT YOU, collectively or just you, he needs to back away from the coffee machine and calm down. Supervisors have no right to raise voices to employees. Not in America they don't.

Being someones supervisor does not all of a sudden give you the right to treat that person however you want. Speak to your subordinates politely, perhaps with anger, but politely. Yelling is unacceptable anywhere where employees know their rights.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Ruckdog wrote:

It sounds like you might be talking about the Harbor Center (it has a large lighthouse in the parking lot).

That's it, thats where it was.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Frazzled wrote:

Still makes you sound like an ass.

Rule #1 Frazz....be polite!

You're uh, confusing EEOC regulation with something else Deady, but thats OT.
And I am being polite. Here, have a weiner dog.

I have to imagine that one's experience of GW stores is very local. Because I have faith in The Emperor, I believe that there are good stores and employees out there despite the insane practices found in other stores (The Emperor shall punish them by His glory).

Anyway, I had a couple of GWs within an hour of my house and I found them to be pretty cool. Small, but hey, you work with what you have. I remember one friendly employee talking ORCS with me and I picked up a cool Ork Warboss on Warboar as a result - now a crowning gem of my collection. Definitely friendly, did not feel pressured. He answered all my questions about the latest and greatest without being pompous - and frankly, I felt he took more time with me than I expected, especially since I spent 80% of the time bragging about my battles and army.

Sadly, both stores are gone now along with many others in the US. I have an awesome local game store, but the GW stores themselves belong just to my fond memories now.

I always wanted to go to a GW store, do they take kindly to people who know exactly what they want or prefer open season on unsuspecting customers?

Deadshane1 wrote:

Frazzled wrote:

Still makes you sound like an ass.

Rule #1 Frazz....be polite!

I'd say letting someone know their tone sounds worse than what they might mean is quite polite This isn't helping my "I'm alternate reality Fraz" theory any...


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Kurgash wrote:I always wanted to go to a GW store, do they take kindly to people who know exactly what they want or prefer open season on unsuspecting customers?

In my experience at a couple of them, it varies drastically from employee to employee. I know it gets annoying having people who have no clue dropping in over and over to ask if they sell video games

Cannerus_The_Unbearable wrote:

Deadshane1 wrote:

Frazzled wrote:

Still makes you sound like an ass.

Rule #1 Frazz....be polite!

I'd say letting someone know their tone sounds worse than what they might mean is quite polite This isn't helping my "I'm alternate reality Fraz" theory any...

Just remember, between the rooms of our reality, there are, the Doors.

I spent a year as a mail order troll at the US HQ in Glen Burnie during the late 90's, both the best and worst job I've ever had.

Frazz, sounds like she who must be obeyed is worth listening to! And wiener dogs are awesome, that is all.

Frazzled wrote:

Cannerus_The_Unbearable wrote:

sourclams wrote:Remember that the people who become mid-level managers in Retail are the same people who, in their early 20s, were told they weren't smart enough to be in actual Business School, and so with their prior course load just kinda sloughed off into Retail Management, which is the closest to Business Management that people who can't hack it in Business School can qualify for.

Glad that makes you superior.

Example One in why everyone should work in retail or food service at least once. The codicil to that of course, is watch how a person treats those workers. Its an excellent window into their true personality ( tip from She Who Must Be Obeyed).

Absolutely.

One of the classic signs of the English Gentleman is that he treats a shop girl or a lord of the realm with equal politeness.

(Another one is that he will get drunk at whatever time of the day, on whatever beverage, is his wont.)

Shellfishguy wrote:I spent a year as a mail order troll at the US HQ in Glen Burnie during the late 90's, both the best and worst job I've ever had.

Frazz, sounds like she who must be obeyed is worth listening to! And wiener dogs are awesome, that is all.

Yes to both.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Kilkrazy wrote:

Frazzled wrote:

Cannerus_The_Unbearable wrote:

sourclams wrote:Remember that the people who become mid-level managers in Retail are the same people who, in their early 20s, were told they weren't smart enough to be in actual Business School, and so with their prior course load just kinda sloughed off into Retail Management, which is the closest to Business Management that people who can't hack it in Business School can qualify for.

Glad that makes you superior.

Example One in why everyone should work in retail or food service at least once. The codicil to that of course, is watch how a person treats those workers. Its an excellent window into their true personality ( tip from She Who Must Be Obeyed).

Absolutely.

One of the classic signs of the English Gentleman is that he treats a shop girl or a lord of the realm with equal politeness.

(Another one is that he will get drunk at whatever time of the day, on whatever beverage, is his wont.)

Again a hardy yes to both!

Deadshane1 wrote:

spireland wrote:

Supervisors can yell, if they yell at everyone equally. If they only yell at a few, or certain types of employees its Harassment.

I would have to say that this type of behavior is not exclusive to GW and is a systemic problem of any low wage retail environment. I worked for Wizards of the Coast when they had retail stores 10+ years ago and had a similar experience.

Actually, no they cannot. It's called creating a hostile work environment...and there are laws against it.

If a supervisor is yelling AT YOU, collectively or just you, he needs to back away from the coffee machine and calm down. Supervisors have no right to raise voices to employees. Not in America they don't.

Being someones supervisor does not all of a sudden give you the right to treat that person however you want. Speak to your subordinates politely, perhaps with anger, but politely. Yelling is unacceptable anywhere where employees know their rights.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Ruckdog wrote:

It sounds like you might be talking about the Harbor Center (it has a large lighthouse in the parking lot).

That's it, thats where it was.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Frazzled wrote:

Still makes you sound like an ass.

Rule #1 Frazz....be polite!

It's crazy, but supervisors/bosses can yell/be jerks as long as they do it equally. In California every two years if you supervise employees you have to sit through two hours of harrasment training and I've had to sit through many over the years. Do a quick search, it sounds crazy but its true. If the harrasment is equal to everyone it is not harrasment. It has to target one protected class in order to be a hostile work environment.

From http://employeeissues.com/hostile_work_environment.htm

" ....to be illegal under one of the laws in the eyes of the courts, a hostile work environment typically must be caused by discriminatory workplace harassment based on race, color, religion, national origin, disability, genetics, age or sex..."

I don't know. To combine separate thoughts, I spent a few years in Annapolis, leaving in 1996 before their first GW store opened. And I got yelled at a heck of a lot, both in Annapolis and in my subsequent life

They did open their first store in Crabtown at the Harbor Center. It was below the movie theater near (or replacing) an ice cream store. I spent a lot of time at the Tower Records and big book store there (I forget which one).

I believe all retail jobs are horrible. And the people who work them are scum, deserving of scorn and derision. Just FYI.

From my personal experience, I think a lot of the problem is down to what is expected from you.

If you do well, then you receive no credit and that standard of work is expected in future.
But if you do poorly, then you get a lot of trouble for it.

Coupled with the fact that there's no real motivation to do any better, with the constant stream of relentless customers, who's sole purpose is to mess up your nice tidy shop while asking you stupid questions.

I think I must have had an abnormal GW work experience. My managers were great, never yelled were laid back but still got things done (well most of the time). We were in a busy area, had a good mix of old heads and newbies, hit our goals on the regular and blasted Dragonforce and Conan. The only major drawback was the amount of time it took to get training from people outside our store and the cramped conditions once other stores in our area shut down. The hours sucked but its retail and my wife, then girlfriend, would often hang out.

I believe all retail jobs are horrible. And the people who work them are scum, deserving of scorn and derision. Just FYI.

But....I work in retail. D;

Anyway, I'm very glad that Utah is predominatly local retailers rather than official stores. I'm kind of shocked by some of what I'm seeing in this thread. What kind of business practice is that?

Bonegrinder wrote:

Frazzled wrote:

Bonegrinder wrote:Being a retail/sales assistant for any company is crap full stop.

Worked for many different places (never GW) and will never work in retail again.

She Who Must Be Obeyed and I agree that every person in the US should have to work in retail or food service as a teenager, so that everyone can experience what job hell really is.

Like some sort of coming of age thing or a american rite of passage.

Have them drafted into retail, make them live the pure suckage.

It sounds alot like the guard recruitment tithes of 2011. Hellish work, facing down evil beings, and relying on cheap equipments to do so.

Least the hours are less.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2011/apr/04/charlie-brooker-shop-snobs

I was a still a full timer 1 yr ago at GW. Had both up and down moments. The only thing i hate more then kids that is annoying you on purpose and idiots who comes into the store to steal stuff or cause trouble...............

10 COMMANDMENTS!!!!!

Burn it!!!!

retail is a horrid place to work, did my time when i was in school then at uni to pay the bills, came out of uni in a middle of a resession got a managers job out of uni in retial for a relativly large shop 30+ employees new store openeing and all that. when things go well no praise because its whats expected everything else was a stream of bollockings from the area/regional managers out to screw you and line their pockets, i always treated my staff well and they wanted to work for me and had good moral but the grief i got from the top was insane, glad i used the managerial experiance to land me a decent buisness role

I got into the game in the late 80's. I remember frequenting the gw store in collegepark maryland when i was a young teenager. I think it was one of the very first gw stores in the states. There were no red shirts. Everyone wore street clothes. They had no high pressure sales. Theyy even had a bits box full of all the mis-casts that you could buy from for next to nothing. The store was always packed on weekends with gamers waiting for tables...it was heaven. I dropped out of the game for a bit, and heard that the store had closed.

Next time i heard about GW stores was when they called me up for an intervie several years later when i was in college. I had applied for a job at corporate, and they were opening the first annapolis store in south point, or harbor gate (or whatever it was called it was near the mall). I intterviewed and was horrified by the retail corporate feel. I had worked at blockbuster video, and never wanted that world again. Needless to say i didn't get the job, but i've also never bought anything from a GW store either...shudder...it ruined my childhood memories of a fantastic store.

reds8n wrote:http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2011/apr/04/charlie-brooker-shop-snobs

Haha nice one, love Charlie Brooker

Everyone should spend some time doing some crappy jobs when they are young because it is character forming.

Call it the school of life.

I spent several months working at Selfridges, which was fine, and a couple of months on a building site.

That was hard work and less "intellectual" let's say, but the blokes were not bad sorts and it gives you an appreciation for the ordinary working man which I think is a good preparation for any kind of management position in the future.

The worst job I ever had was kitchen porter in a place that made the kind of pre-packaged food that doctors and nurses have to buy late at night out of vending machines.

I worked in a petrol station for a year or so. Long enough to teach me that I hate the general public...

lead weight on plastic was king, 30 quid for 300 skellies

Been lucky
Had some horrid jobs but the people were generally good to excellent and made the tedium bearable.

My time in retail (small art store) was brilliant and was sorry when the firm closed. Never had snotty customers. A couple were a tad tiresome the rest great sorts.
Happy days.

Funny stories I have heard in the past few months from friends I have working at a GW shop:

1) Despite being the third-highest sales store in North America (next to the Chicago Battle Bunker and one in Toronto), they were chastised by their regional manager for being behind on sales so far this year. Note that last year had Spacehulk. They were told that they should have followed the example of another shop and kept their sales low so that they could beat it easier (each year the target is +10% sales).

2) They were told to absolutely stop running their weekly tournaments on the weekends, which ran on Saturdays and were open to 8 player teams of two, because the company was unwilling to allow any involvement with tournaments that involved prizes. These tournaments constantly lead directly to new revenue as people would constantly tweak their lists to be placed as 'Best in Store'.

3) Similarly, they ran a huge escalation league out of the store for Fantasy. Again, huge revenues generated from sales. This was shut down (despite an employee running it in their off-hours) because of the prizes situation, along with being told that they should be focusing on new customers, not the vets (hint, those people are the reason this store does so well).

They constantly innovate to try and generate sales, and are shut down. Despite this, their manager is constantly travelling to the quarterly managers meetings to lecture on how to run an effective store. I have no clue what sort of credentials people hold to be made regional managers, but obviously this is not the only one that doesn't understand what is important.

Retail is horrid.

Bullying and idiotic managers.

The General Public.

The list goes on and on.

It fills my heart with such rage.

I also can't stand the low regard companies have for their retail staff.

As for GW staff, I feel that if you can be direct with the them. Know what you are in for and just politely refuse their standard sales pitch. I always find GW stores friendly, although I do try and avoid the busier times.

Just to throw in with a more positive angle.

I'm based next to the bournemouth store, that while tiny - Is always nice, polite and helpful to me, sure they try to convince me to buy extra things occasionally but are never pushy.

More importantly, they offered good constructive advice when i was trying to decide between my obliterators and Defiler and even suggested i buy the cheaper thing if i couldnt decide (i ignore it and bought the defiler, claws look much cooler!)

Only problem i had there was people with unfortunate body odour which in a tiny store was NOT fun..

Poole store, which has a battle bunker thingy whatsit have been great - really friendly, really supportive, happy to introduce newbies to other people - Offered to play / sort games out - Offer advice when we want it, hell when me and a mate turned up being faaar too keen early they sat outside with us and discussed Eldar tactics untill it was time to get started.

Management however - i have no clue about

Deadshane1 wrote:Actually, no they cannot. It's called creating a hostile work environment...and there are laws against it.

No, there aren't - if you think there are, cite the specific laws. There is a myth that there is some sort of "Harassment" law that prevent all sorts of things, but it just isn't true. Unless it qualifies as sexual harassment (which has a pretty narrow definition), or is specifically based on discrimination against one of the protected categories (like religion, race, gender) your boss can legally perform any 'harassment' he feels like. It's also fine for a company to fire you for any reason they want, with or without warning, as long as the reason isn't that you're in a protected class or that you reported sexual harassment, or a few other very limited reasons. If the company decides it only wants people to drink pepsi at work, they can fire you, without warning, for bringing in a coke.

If a supervisor is yelling AT YOU, collectively or just you, he needs to back away from the coffee machine and calm down. Supervisors have no right to raise voices to employees. Not in America they don't.

Being someones supervisor does not all of a sudden give you the right to treat that person however you want. Speak to your subordinates politely, perhaps with anger, but politely. Yelling is unacceptable anywhere where employees know their rights.

Unless you have an employment contract stating otherwise, your only right is to quit if you don't like working conditions. A supervisor can talk as mean to you as he wants and, as long as it's not sexual harassment or discriminating against a protected class, is in violation of no laws. You can't get them fined or jailed. You can't successfully sue them. You can't make them give you your job back. You might be able to draw unemployment if you quit after really bad behavior from a manager, but it's far from guaranteed, and will take months to go through hearings.

Again, if you think that supervisors can't raise voices at employees in the US, tell us exactly what law it violates. You're not going to find one, because there are very, very few protections for workers in the US.

Surely if some one is being verbally abused and intimitated in the work place there is some form of action that can be taken?

Is this acceptable behaviour in society?
Would similar behaviour be tolerated elsewhere?

Fearspect wrote:Funny stories I have heard in the past few months from friends I have working at a GW shop:

1) Despite being the third-highest sales store in North America (next to the Chicago Battle Bunker and one in Toronto), they were chastised by their regional manager for being behind on sales so far this year. Note that last year had Spacehulk. They were told that they should have followed the example of another shop and kept their sales low so that they could beat it easier (each year the target is +10% sales).

2) They were told to absolutely stop running their weekly tournaments on the weekends, which ran on Saturdays and were open to 8 player teams of two, because the company was unwilling to allow any involvement with tournaments that involved prizes. These tournaments constantly lead directly to new revenue as people would constantly tweak their lists to be placed as 'Best in Store'.

3) Similarly, they ran a huge escalation league out of the store for Fantasy. Again, huge revenues generated from sales. This was shut down (despite an employee running it in their off-hours) because of the prizes situation, along with being told that they should be focusing on new customers, not the vets (hint, those people are the reason this store does so well).

They constantly innovate to try and generate sales, and are shut down. Despite this, their manager is constantly travelling to the quarterly managers meetings to lecture on how to run an effective store. I have no clue what sort of credentials people hold to be made regional managers, but obviously this is not the only one that doesn't understand what is important.

Based on my experience of big companies there are several key things to getting promotions.

1. Sit on the same floor as the boss. He only notices people he can see.
2. Talk a good fight. Being constantly busy with meetings and initiatives is much more important than being technically good at doing your job.
3. Suck ass. If the boss likes to go out drinking and golfing, he'll promote people who go drinking and golfing with him.

reds8n wrote:http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2011/apr/04/charlie-brooker-shop-snobs

That column is full of win. I worked in retail 1 summer. Never again will I interact with the pubic via sales...

Chibi Bodge-Battle wrote:Surely if some one is being verbally abused and intimitated in the work place there is some form of action that can be taken? Is this acceptable behaviour in society? Would similar behaviour be tolerated elsewhere?

You can request that the person stop, you can ask someone higher up the food chain to tell him to stop, or you can quit your job and find one that you like. There isn't any form of legal action you can take - you can't sue the company or person for money, get the person or company arrested or fined, or force the company to transfer you or them elsewhere. If you really want to discuss this side topic, we should move it to a new thread in OT since it's not really what this thread is about. I just wanted to correct some bad information that can easily get someone into trouble if they rely on it.

spireland wrote:

Deadshane1 wrote:

spireland wrote:

Supervisors can yell, if they yell at everyone equally. If they only yell at a few, or certain types of employees its Harassment.

I would have to say that this type of behavior is not exclusive to GW and is a systemic problem of any low wage retail environment. I worked for Wizards of the Coast when they had retail stores 10+ years ago and had a similar experience.

Actually, no they cannot. It's called creating a hostile work environment...and there are laws against it.

If a supervisor is yelling AT YOU, collectively or just you, he needs to back away from the coffee machine and calm down. Supervisors have no right to raise voices to employees. Not in America they don't.

Being someones supervisor does not all of a sudden give you the right to treat that person however you want. Speak to your subordinates politely, perhaps with anger, but politely. Yelling is unacceptable anywhere where employees know their rights.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Ruckdog wrote:

It sounds like you might be talking about the Harbor Center (it has a large lighthouse in the parking lot).

That's it, thats where it was.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Frazzled wrote:

Still makes you sound like an ass.

Rule #1 Frazz....be polite!

It's crazy, but supervisors/bosses can yell/be jerks as long as they do it equally. In California every two years if you supervise employees you have to sit through two hours of harrasment training and I've had to sit through many over the years. Do a quick search, it sounds crazy but its true. If the harrasment is equal to everyone it is not harrasment. It has to target one protected class in order to be a hostile work environment.

From http://employeeissues.com/hostile_work_environment.htm

" ....to be illegal under one of the laws in the eyes of the courts, a hostile work environment typically must be caused by discriminatory workplace harassment based on race, color, religion, national origin, disability, genetics, age or sex..."

So if I grope all the female employee’s equally they can't raise a fuss?

That would specifically fall under sexual harassment.

But why is it that people in any workplace, retail or otherwise, can be abused when this would not be deemed acceptable elsewhere?

There have been accounts of such behaviour in GW stores above so it is not OT Bearers

Surely if some one is being verbally abused and intimitated in the work place there is some form of action that can be taken?
***unless a reason cited above, special state legislation, or a contract/union rules that would be NO.

Is this acceptable behaviour in society?
***Yep, and time honored tradition.

Would similar behaviour be tolerated elsewhere?
***Depends on the culture of that company and location. Shouting is much more customary in our NY offices. Here, you get in a shouting match with someone it might result in a hospital visit. Different cultures.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

Chibi Bodge-Battle wrote:But why is it that people in any workplace, retail or otherwise, can be abused when this would not be deemed acceptable elsewhere?

There have been accounts of such behaviour in GW stores above so it is not OT Bearers

Its called Life (TM)

BearersOfSalvation wrote:

Deadshane1 wrote:Actually, no they cannot. It's called creating a hostile work environment...and there are laws against it.

No, there aren't - if you think there are, cite the specific laws. There is a myth that there is some sort of "Harassment" law that prevent all sorts of things, but it just isn't true.

If a supervisor is yelling AT YOU, collectively or just you, he needs to back away from the coffee machine and calm down. Supervisors have no right to raise voices to employees. Not in America they don't.

Unless you have an employment contract stating otherwise, your only right is to quit if you don't like working conditions. A supervisor can talk as mean to you as he wants and, as long as it's not sexual harassment or discriminating against a protected class, is in violation of no laws.

...

Again, if you think that supervisors can't raise voices at employees in the US, tell us exactly what law it violates. You're not going to find one, because there are very, very few protections for workers in the US.

Everyone should be aware of their rights as a worker, as they vary greatly from country to country and state/province to state/province. As you say, there are probably quite a few places (likely "right to work" states) where you aren't protected from this sort of thing. The important thing is knowing for sure and standing up for yourself.

Go online and search for worker's rights in your country/state/province and get informed because in most first world places, you have the right to be treated with dignity in the workplace.

Also: know your company's employment standards. Most companies (at least the larger ones) will have guidelines and standards around reasons and processes for terminations, warnings, behaviour and such for both employees and managers. Know these!

Er Canadian law differs strongly from US law.

Chibi Bodge-Battle wrote:But why is it that people in any workplace, retail or otherwise, can be abused when this would not be deemed acceptable elsewhere?

It's not, in general, illegal to yell at someone outside of work either. For example, if you come to my house, it's legal for me to yell at you. If I track mud into my parent's house, they can yell at me. If someone cuts me off in traffic, I can yell at them. Doing things that are not illegal is acceptable to the legal system, so it's as acceptable there as elsewhere. Just calling something 'abuse' doesn't make it illegal, and in discussions about employment I've seen people claim 'abuse' for something like 'the manager told me I was going to be fired if I didn't follow the rules'.

"I don't like it when someone does this thing" does not mean "this thing is absolutely illegal".



Automatically Appended Next Post:

Foo wrote:Everyone should be aware of their rights as a worker, as they vary greatly from country to country and state/province to state/province. As you say, there are probably quite a few places (likely "right to work" states) where you aren't protected from this sort of thing. The important thing is knowing for sure and standing up for yourself.

You are not protected from a manager yelling at you by law in any US state, your statement is misleading because it implies that only some do not have this protection. I don't know about, and am not commenting on Canadian law. Whether the state forbids contracts that require all employees at a site to be in a union or not (which is the distinction between a 'right to work' state or not) is completely irrelevant.

BearersOfSalvation wrote:

Chibi Bodge-Battle wrote:Surely if some one is being verbally abused and intimitated in the work place there is some form of action that can be taken? Is this acceptable behaviour in society? Would similar behaviour be tolerated elsewhere?

You can request that the person stop, you can ask someone higher up the food chain to tell him to stop, or you can quit your job and find one that you like. There isn't any form of legal action you can take - you can't sue the company or person for money, get the person or company arrested or fined, or force the company to transfer you or them elsewhere. If you really want to discuss this side topic, we should move it to a new thread in OT since it's not really what this thread is about. I just wanted to correct some bad information that can easily get someone into trouble if they rely on it.

I would suggest consulting a lawyer. In the UK, bullying behaviour is covered by laws on assault, apart from any specific workplace legislation. The US of course is a separate legislation.

Kilkrazy wrote:

BearersOfSalvation wrote:

Chibi Bodge-Battle wrote:Surely if some one is being verbally abused and intimitated in the work place there is some form of action that can be taken? Is this acceptable behaviour in society? Would similar behaviour be tolerated elsewhere?

You can request that the person stop, you can ask someone higher up the food chain to tell him to stop, or you can quit your job and find one that you like. There isn't any form of legal action you can take - you can't sue the company or person for money, get the person or company arrested or fined, or force the company to transfer you or them elsewhere. If you really want to discuss this side topic, we should move it to a new thread in OT since it's not really what this thread is about. I just wanted to correct some bad information that can easily get someone into trouble if they rely on it.

I would suggest consulting a lawyer. In the UK, bullying behaviour is covered by laws on assault, apart from any specific workplace legislation. The US of course is a separate legislation.

Unfortunately when the case goes to tribunal, they tend to wiggle out on technicalities - such as the fact I punched him back.

>_>

That's what killed it for me and the world of work. Lost several jobs in the steel industry, which I loved. Then spent years floating from tin pot customer service and legal aid roles, each one more ethically challenged than the last. Then spent a year or so working for probation and drugs services. I don't imagine I'll be returning to work until the manufacturing industry picks up again. There's laws for your personal wellbeing, but they aren't very well enforced.

Kilkrazy wrote:Current employees will not admit their identity as it could compromise their position with the company.

I laughed so hard the first time I heard of this... it's too funny!

The fact that something happens in the workplace doesn't act as a shield against that which is illegal outside of the workplace. In fact, the power/authority of a boss, manager, etc. can exacerbate the emotional impact of harsh language, threats, and other kinds of abuse.

Take a look at "intentional infliction of emotional distress."

In the US, emotional distress is legally defined as, "A highly unpleasant mental reaction (such as anguish, grief, fright, humiliation, or fury) that results from another person's conduct; emotional pain and suffering. Emotional distress, when severe enough, can form the basis for the recovery of tort damages."

In some states it is termed "outrage," which I find interesting considering that previous posters have taken the position that such outrageous treatment which would not be tolerated in civil society would be allowed to happen in the workplace with no potential remedy. Indeed, such outrageous treatment potentially involves a legal remedy as long as damaged has been caused. And the social dynamics of a workplace situation can magnify the potential for measurable and identifiable harm.

In any event, the employee handbook likely prohibits such treatment in the first place, so seeking a remedy within the company is likely a good place to start.

weeble1000 wrote:The fact that something happens in the workplace doesn't act as a shield against that which is illegal outside of the workplace. In fact, the power/authority of a boss, manager, etc. can exacerbate the emotional impact of harsh language, threats, and other kinds of abuse.

Take a look at "intentional infliction of emotional distress."

In the US, emotional distress is legally defined as, "A highly unpleasant mental reaction (such as anguish, grief, fright, humiliation, or fury) that results from another person's conduct; emotional pain and suffering. Emotional distress, when severe enough, can form the basis for the recovery of tort damages."

In some states it is termed "outrage," which I find interesting considering that previous posters have taken the position that such outrageous treatment which would not be tolerated in civil society would be allowed to happen in the workplace with no potential remedy. Indeed, such outrageous treatment potentially involves a legal remedy as long as damaged has been caused. And the social dynamics of a workplace situation can magnify the potential for measurable and identifiable harm.

In any event, the employee handbook likely prohibits such treatment in the first place, so seeking a remedy within the company is likely a good place to start.

Please try that in court. Tell us how it works out.

weeble1000 wrote:The fact that something happens in the workplace doesn't act as a shield against that which is illegal outside of the workplace. In fact, the power/authority of a boss, manager, etc. can exacerbate the emotional impact of harsh language, threats, and other kinds of abuse.

As I mentioned earlier, it's not illegal to yell at people outside of the workplace, so the 'act as a shield' bit doesn't even make any sense. Rudeness is not generally illegal, regardless of how much you want mean people to go to jail.

Take a look at "intentional infliction of emotional distress."

In the US, emotional distress is legally defined as, "A highly unpleasant mental reaction (such as anguish, grief, fright, humiliation, or fury) that results from another person's conduct; emotional pain and suffering. Emotional distress, when severe enough, can form the basis for the recovery of tort damages."

Can you cite any cases, at all, where a manager was successfully sued for intentional infliction of emotional distress for yelling at an employee in the workplace? No, because those cases don't exist outside of your imagination. Using words that crop up in legal cases like 'harassment', 'hostile workplace', or 'infliction of emotional distress' doesn't magically mean that you magically have created new law, it means that you heard some terms and are stringing them together.

if you live in LA, you can claim workers comp for stress.

http://www.articlesbase.com/personal-injury-articles/los-angeles-work-related-stress-find-legal-help-1369275.html

When I worked closing shift at CompUSA they'd lock the doors and keep us inside (unpaid) until the night manager finished their thing. That stopped when several employees threatened to press charges for kidnapping.

Seriously. I called the police myself and another guy said 'Fuggit' and walked out via the emergency doors. They tried to fire him but their lawyers warned them it would be very, very expensive to do that...hee hee!

I've been to about 10 different GW Retail shops. As a customer, it's completely transparent that the annoying sales routine is mandatory at all shops. It's the same at all of them. Most of the employees were very nice and helpful (not all, mind you, but most) and I don't hold their strongarm tactics against them as I know it's Corporate that's causing it.

spireland wrote:

Deadshane1 wrote:I'm thankful to hear that the guy was let go, if it's true. I suspect it is. I vaguely remember meeting up with my former manager there at a Games day some years later and him telling me that he was forced to move on.

Grade A D-bag indeed.

If you work in the U.S. NEVER let a supervisor YELL at you. It's called Harassment, there are laws against it.

@Ruckdog

The Annapolis Mall location, (i think) opened after the initial annapolis location closed. The oringinal store was located in a strip mall right next to a large AMC or REGAL theatre. I forget what the strip mall was called.

Supervisors can yell, if they yell at everyone equally. If they only yell at a few, or certain types of employees its Harassment.

I would have to say that this type of behavior is not exclusive to GW and is a systemic problem of any low wage retail environment. I worked for Wizards of the Coast when they had retail stores 10+ years ago and had a similar experience.

considering that most states are "right to work" (ie: right to be fired for any reason), those kind of managers can do whatever they damn well please.

Fearspect wrote:Funny stories I have heard in the past few months from friends I have working at a GW shop:

1) Despite being the third-highest sales store in North America (next to the Chicago Battle Bunker and one in Toronto), they were chastised by their regional manager for being behind on sales so far this year. Note that last year had Spacehulk. They were told that they should have followed the example of another shop and kept their sales low so that they could beat it easier (each year the target is +10% sales).

2) They were told to absolutely stop running their weekly tournaments on the weekends, which ran on Saturdays and were open to 8 player teams of two, because the company was unwilling to allow any involvement with tournaments that involved prizes. These tournaments constantly lead directly to new revenue as people would constantly tweak their lists to be placed as 'Best in Store'.

3) Similarly, they ran a huge escalation league out of the store for Fantasy. Again, huge revenues generated from sales. This was shut down (despite an employee running it in their off-hours) because of the prizes situation, along with being told that they should be focusing on new customers, not the vets (hint, those people are the reason this store does so well).

They constantly innovate to try and generate sales, and are shut down. Despite this, their manager is constantly travelling to the quarterly managers meetings to lecture on how to run an effective store. I have no clue what sort of credentials people hold to be made regional managers, but obviously this is not the only one that doesn't understand what is important.

I managed in a local comic chain and it was the same thing. They hated tournaments being run and wanted to sell out of starter sets of everything (even the things wal-mart had cheaper and a MONTH earlier than us). It's really, really stupid justification behind it.

Chibi Bodge-Battle wrote:Surely if some one is being verbally abused and intimitated in the work place there is some form of action that can be taken?

Is this acceptable behaviour in society?
Would similar behaviour be tolerated elsewhere?

My response over the past few years has been to ask them to lower their voice and to calm down repeatedly til they treat me like another human being. Any time this has made them angrier, it just makes for a better story for HR and has ended up with them getting their ass chewed out (yay beneficial hypocrisy). Having a pair helps, even if you really need the job. I'm glad I'm in a union now that makes sure this kind of thing doesn't happen to me.

Maxim C. Gatling wrote:When I worked closing shift at CompUSA they'd lock the doors and keep us inside (unpaid) until the night manager finished their thing. That stopped when several employees threatened to press charges for kidnapping.

Seriously. I called the police myself and another guy said 'Fuggit' and walked out via the emergency doors. They tried to fire him but their lawyers warned them it would be very, very expensive to do that...hee hee!

I've been to about 10 different GW Retail shops. As a customer, it's completely transparent that the annoying sales routine is mandatory at all shops. It's the same at all of them. Most of the employees were very nice and helpful (not all, mind you, but most) and I don't hold their strongarm tactics against them as I know it's Corporate that's causing it.

This used to happen at Dillard's. Someone called the fire department and they chopped through the glass doors with axes. That entire shift was let go and the Dillard's lawyers made sure nothing bad happened to them or their image as it mysteriously didn't appear in the news despite some (then ex)employees being interviewed about it. Absolute bs.

bluedestiny wrote:I was a still a full timer 1 yr ago at GW. Had both up and down moments. The only thing i hate more then kids that is annoying you on purpose and idiots who comes into the store to steal stuff or cause trouble...............

10 COMMANDMENTS!!!!!

Burn it!!!!

I think those commandments are an australia only deal..
At the store I worked at we had fortnightly meetings, (on a goddamn saturday evening) and the first thing we did was have to write them out word for word like a test...
I see the value in knowing what they are and how they help but word for word? gimme a break..
I also had up and down moments, the store was great most of the time, the constant critiquing got a bit much for me though.
The main reason i quit was because i was feeling pressured to work weekdays during school holidays (i was a casual) when I already had a fulltime job that paid way more.
Figured I'd quit before it got ugly.

I haven't been to a GW store in a while.. I used to stop in the Franklin Mills store once in a while when it was still around, and I never had any kinda hard sell from anyone. Someone would ask if I needed help, or strike up a quick conversation about what I was buying.. maybe the occasional "need any glue?" when they ring me up.. that's about it. Always had friendly, nice folks working there whenever I was in, which wasn't often but still.

May I just say this? Middle management of ANY kind is absolute gak. Nothing but gak.

Store managers, regional managers. Basically anything that lies between bottom retail employee and CEO is automatically destined to be ill tempered and unreasonable.

Chibi Bodge-Battle wrote:Surely if some one is being verbally abused and intimitated in the work place there is some form of action that can be taken?

Is this acceptable behaviour in society?
Would similar behaviour be tolerated elsewhere?

Many schools? Around family members? Society tolerates it plenty, and usually to far more damaging effects.

Verbal abuse is called being passive aggressive and it is totally tolerated by society

Physical abuse or sexual her-ass-ment is a big no no but you can cut people down with emotional/verbal abuse until they jump off a building all you want!

Why? Because its hard to prove and also its one of those things that others dont identify with very easily unless they are abused by the exact same person

Just gotta deal with it generally or ignore it. Good old british anti-bullying laws. Everyone knows the best way to deal with them is to ignore them not piss them off by crying to the police

If you want to deal with it on a legal basis you need to keep ACCURATE records and you must also express verbally and in writing that is make you feel uncomfortable

Also, once you do start keep records be prepared to be fired for any number of fake reasons (If youre in the USA). There are like 8 million people looking for work so a lot of employee protection fall by the wayside

I like how the article in the Guardian says

The Guardian wrote: the robotic "How can I help you?" mantras that only really make sense in America, because they're so friendly they actually mean it.

I thought America was the donkey-cave of the planet, and that the brits were supposed to be the gentlemen?

micahaphone wrote:I like how the article in the Guardian says

The Guardian wrote: the robotic "How can I help you?" mantras that only really make sense in America, because they're so friendly they actually mean it.

I thought America was the donkey-cave of the planet, and that the brits were supposed to be the gentlemen?

Absolutely not. customer service is non-existant in the UK, especially restaurents where even the receipt says "service not included".

Wow. I'm surprised that in one setting, the US is more polite and helpful than the UK.

Not my general experience.

sorry to disillusion you chaps, but most people I encounter are still friendly and helpful.

I am more perplexed by the apparent willingness to accept boorish behaviour if the responses to my question are anything to go by.
eg

Many schools? Around family members? Society tolerates it plenty, and usually to far more damaging effects.

Might be true in your neck of the woods, but it is not the case in the UK.
Sure it happens, but it is not tolerated and there are frameworks for protecting people against it.

Man. 3 pages. What a fire I started!

Deadshane1, whitedragon, I had a similar experience. Our manager was kinda shady on practices, especially with our employee discount.

Man, I miss that discount. Mmmm, cheap-ass pewter. So many Dark Angels.

But the Key-Timers like me, and the rest of the Redshirts were pretty cool. One was a physics teacher full-time, and did the job mostly for the discount and a little extra money. Really funny guy, great gamer.

When the Regional guys came down and fired the manager they fired everybody but one guy. Hence then, the store itself was declared EXCOMMUNICATE TRAITORIS and shut down.

I also wish I had known my rights as an employee better. Retail is a far worse work environment than it should be. On the good days, I got paid to play Warhammer and Warhammer40K as well as paint. I got paid to learn how to do both BETTER. On the bad days, I felt horrible for twisting people into buying way more crap than they needed or wanted.

But if it weren't for those months at GW, I wouldn't be into this game that I like so much.

Chibi Bodge-Battle wrote:

Many schools? Around family members? Society tolerates it plenty, and usually to far more damaging effects.

Might be true in your neck of the woods, but it is not the case in the UK.
Sure it happens, but it is not tolerated and there are frameworks for protecting people against it.

Most schools are now forced to have an anti-bullying policy, available to anyone who asks to see it.
I think it was one of the child protection charities that got it put in place.
The school is forced to report bullying to the police, once it gets to a certain number of instances or too violent, I think.

In the workplace, wrongful-dismissal often gets mentioned when people report harassment and are fired for imaginary reasons.

As for customer service, Having to deal with the grumpy sod behind the counter is normal, and the UK's customer service is hardly up to scratch. It's one reason I haven't left corporate computer support. Got to keep the side up.

[Edit: Why can't I spell Anti these days :( ]

micahaphone wrote:Wow. I'm surprised that in one setting, the US is more polite and helpful than the UK.

It depends where you go. I've had some terrible customer service experiences in the USA, while the UK is fine most of the time.

Japan is the place for good service. It's a bit too good some of the time, and makes you impatient to get on with things. You still get some bad service on rare occasions.

I was amused at my 1st visit to the US, which was to Vegas about 10 years back, for the GAMA trade show. I'd heard so much about customer service, but my first encounter with it, asking the hotel receptionist about the gym, was met with an abrasive, "WHAT?!?", rather than "Do pardon me, sir, your accent is a little strange to my ears, would you mind repeating that?" as I might expect from a British person in similar circumstances.

Formosa wrote:if you live in LA, you can claim workers comp for stress.

http://www.articlesbase.com/personal-injury-articles/los-angeles-work-related-stress-find-legal-help-1369275.html

LA land of (lawyer's) dreams. Ah the state that brought us palimony, and governmental bankruptcy...


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Ian Sturrock wrote:I was amused at my 1st visit to the US, which was to Vegas about 10 years back, for the GAMA trade show. I'd heard so much about customer service, but my first encounter with it, asking the hotel receptionist about the gym, was met with an abrasive, "WHAT?!?", rather than "Do pardon me, sir, your accent is a little strange to my ears, would you mind repeating that?" as I might expect from a British person in similar circumstances.

That's because you don't speak the King's Spanish auslander!

Sounds like there are some unemployed people in this thread if they thing they somehow have a legal right not to be yelled at, or are immune from being stressed at work or feeling emotional.

Also, paying customers can and will yell at you even in the white-collar business world. It doesn't end at the service industry. Are you going to claim your paying customer is harassing you to?

GW tells employees what they want them to be... Souless selling machines. Salespeople often have to be fake, aggressive, manipulative to make a sale. That is how it is. What I often see is lazy redshirts who want to run the store like a clubhouse and just be Grand Poobah of the gamers. They want to try to foster the heart and soul of the hobby instead of forcing product down the throats of those who enter. And often the unpaying customer want to pal around with the Redshirt and get crappy when he is DOING HIS JOB opposed to playing in the clubhouse.

If you don't like how GW does business, then don't work for them and don't patronize them. I am not going to expect GW runs its stores in a less than profitable way to make some employees who may or may not be doing what is expected of them happy nor am I going to try to armchair quarterback how my vision for GW management would somehow be more profitable and that they should change to fit my needs.

dienekes96 wrote:I don't know. To combine separate thoughts, I spent a few years in Annapolis, leaving in 1996 before their first GW store opened. And I got yelled at a heck of a lot, both in Annapolis and in my subsequent life

They did open their first store in Crabtown at the Harbor Center. It was below the movie theater near (or replacing) an ice cream store. I spent a lot of time at the Tower Records and big book store there (I forget which one).

I believe all retail jobs are horrible. And the people who work them are scum, deserving of scorn and derision. Just FYI.

Thats abit harsh. People may not have a choice but to work retail, it doesn't make them scum.

Managers can be fine people outside of work, but as soon as they clock on they can be worst of the worst.

Chibi Bodge-Battle wrote:Not my general experience.

sorry to disillusion you chaps, but most people I encounter are still friendly and helpful.

I am more perplexed by the apparent willingness to accept boorish behaviour if the responses to my question are anything to go by.
eg

Many schools? Around family members? Society tolerates it plenty, and usually to far more damaging effects.

Might be true in your neck of the woods, but it is not the case in the UK.
Sure it happens, but it is not tolerated and there are frameworks for protecting people against it.

Then I honestly envy your life sir.

Im constantly amused there has to be "Frameworks to protect people" against "Words that make you sad"

Yeah, thats called "the family".. Unfortunately 'modern' society seems to be outsourcing more and more of their responsibility to properly raise their kids to the government.

You deal with bullies by either running away and hiding or knocking them on their asses. Anything else just causes them to avoid the authorities *While* making your life hell. There are a ton of examples of this being true and Im sure people can find them in their own life experience quite easily

Eventually you gotta stop letting other people solve your problems for ya.. Relying on the government to do anything in a timely manner is a poor excuse for solving a situation

Granted you cant punch your boss :p but im more talking about childhood silliness that is "anti-bullying laws".. What ever happened to parents talking to parents?

Frazzled wrote:Er Canadian law differs strongly from US law.

Not only that, but US laws differ strongly from state to state, hence why I said to go online and check the laws for your area.


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BearersOfSalvation wrote:You are not protected from a manager yelling at you by law in any US state, your statement is misleading because it implies that only some do not have this protection. I don't know about, and am not commenting on Canadian law.

I didn't specify only state laws, though. Companies typically have their own standards and practices as well. It's important the people inform themselves of their rights where they live and work, because while "shouting" may not be specifically mentioned in a law, some areas/companies may in fact have laws or policies regarding safe work places and such, which can cover shouting and abuse of that kind as intimidation, which is typically a misdemeanour.


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nkelsch wrote:Sounds like there are some unemployed people in this thread if they thing they somehow have a legal right not to be yelled at, or are immune from being stressed at work or feeling emotional.

No, I'm quite happily employed by a respectable company that doesn't tolerate bs from its employees because happy employees are better workers.

I didn't specify only state laws, though. Companies typically have their own standards and practices as well. It's important the people inform themselves of their rights where they live and work, because while "shouting" may not be specifically mentioned in a law, some areas/companies may in fact have laws or policies regarding safe work places and such, which can cover shouting and abuse of that kind as intimidation, which is typically a misdemeanour.

You're at best confusing employment law with criminal law. There's a big difference (ok except in China and maybe Berkeley).

Maxim C. Gatling wrote:When I worked closing shift at CompUSA they'd lock the doors and keep us inside (unpaid) until the night manager finished their thing. That stopped when several employees threatened to press charges for kidnapping.

This is vastly different than the yelling thing, because requiring people to work (and 'remain in the workplace' counts as 'work' even if you're not doing other tasks) for a period of time without paying them is strictly illegal under federal law, and all states have some sort of labor board to handle 'wage and hour' complaints. Generally you are entitled to be paid something like 3x the wages you should have gotten in a case like that. Obviously in practice you do have to prove what went on (I'm sure they didn't have a written policy about that), but being paid for all hours worked is one of the areas where you do have rights. One interesting bit is that the law actually doesn't allow you to agree to not be paid for hours that you work.

Worglock wrote:considering that most states are "right to work" (ie: right to be fired for any reason), those kind of managers can do whatever they damn well please.

No, 'right to work' has nothing to do with it at all, it just means a state that forbids closed shops, and only a bit under half of US states are 'right to work'. A 'closed shop' is the term for when a union sets up a contract with a company that requires that everyone who works at that location be a member of the union. What you're actually thinking of is the doctrine of 'employment at will', which applies in 49 states (Montana technically requires a reason to fire someone, but in practice it makes no difference).

Foo wrote:I didn't specify only state laws, though. Companies typically have their own standards and practices as well.

There's no national laws either, and company standards and practices don't have anything to do with rights. Unless there is an actual employment contract saying that they will follow standards and practices, which is very rare (employee handbooks are NOT contracts), they are free to ignore them or selectively apply their standards and practices. Plus most companies have standards and practices that are written to allow them extremely broad discretion and with plenty of catch-22s (ie it's a firing offense to work overtime without management approval, but it's also a firing offense to hang up on a customer at the end of your shift).

It's important the people inform themselves of their rights where they live and work, because while "shouting" may not be specifically mentioned in a law, some areas/companies may in fact have laws or policies regarding safe work places and such, which can cover shouting and abuse of that kind as intimidation, which is typically a misdemeanour.

No state in the US have laws that make it illegal for a manager to yell at his employees. If he actually threatens violence, that can be (and generally is) illegal, but the threats would be illegal whether yelled or not. The fact that a statute somewhere uses the word 'intimidation' doesn't mean that anything that you think might be intimidating is illegal there. Again, if there really are such 'laws or policies', you should be able to point to a case where someone is actually prosecuted under them - but you can't, because they don't exist.

Foo wrote:Automatically Appended Next Post:

nkelsch wrote:Sounds like there are some unemployed people in this thread if they thing they somehow have a legal right not to be yelled at, or are immune from being stressed at work or feeling emotional.

No, I'm quite happily employed by a respectable company that doesn't tolerate bs from its employees because happy employees are better workers.

And lazy, incompetent, stupid, malicious and unethical employees ruin morale, harm client relationships and lose money and harm those 'happy employees', often more than not yelling at that one employee you are trying to please. Asking someone to work hard and do their job may be 'harassment' to a lazy employee, doesn't mean it is illegal.

Kirasu wrote:Im constantly amused there has to be "Frameworks to protect people" against "Words that make you sad"

Yeah, thats called "the family".. Unfortunately 'modern' society seems to be outsourcing more and more of their responsibility to properly raise their kids to the government.

You deal with bullies by either running away and hiding or knocking them on their asses. Anything else just causes them to avoid the authorities *While* making your life hell. There are a ton of examples of this being true and Im sure people can find them in their own life experience quite easily

Eventually you gotta stop letting other people solve your problems for ya.. Relying on the government to do anything in a timely manner is a poor excuse for solving a situation

Granted you cant punch your boss :p but im more talking about childhood silliness that is "anti-bullying laws".. What ever happened to parents talking to parents?

absolutely agree with this. At some point the buck has to stop being passed, and a lot of parents seem to be absolving themselves from raising their kids properly. But, you can't dare say that (and politicians most certainly can't) without people having an aghast reaction about it, and taking the high ground about no-one have the right to be so judgemental.

Frazzled wrote:

I didn't specify only state laws, though. Companies typically have their own standards and practices as well. It's important the people inform themselves of their rights where they live and work, because while "shouting" may not be specifically mentioned in a law, some areas/companies may in fact have laws or policies regarding safe work places and such, which can cover shouting and abuse of that kind as intimidation, which is typically a misdemeanour.

You're at best confusing employment law with criminal law. There's a big difference (ok except in China and maybe Berkeley).

No, I recognize they're two separate things. My sentence there was written poorly.

I'm saying that in certain cases, in addition to the labour laws in your area, activities that take place at work can constitute intimidation under criminal statutes.

Look, I'm not sure why people seem to be so keen to discount a worker's ability to stand up for themselves legally in the workplace.

The point is this: read up on your local labour laws and your place of employment's policies regarding your rights and expected behaviour. That's it. There really should be no controversy in advising people to better inform themselves.


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nkelsch wrote:

Foo wrote:Automatically Appended Next Post:

nkelsch wrote:Sounds like there are some unemployed people in this thread if they thing they somehow have a legal right not to be yelled at, or are immune from being stressed at work or feeling emotional.

No, I'm quite happily employed by a respectable company that doesn't tolerate bs from its employees because happy employees are better workers.

And lazy, incompetent, stupid, malicious and unethical employees ruin morale, harm client relationships and lose money and harm those 'happy employees', often more than not yelling at that one employee you are trying to please. Asking someone to work hard and do their job may be 'harassment' to a lazy employee, doesn't mean it is illegal.

I'm not sure what point you're trying to make here. Lazy employees mean bosses should be able to abuse the good employees, too?

Yelling and bullying someone at work is not the same thing as telling someone to do a better job. Corporate policies go both ways, outlining expected behaviour and performance for both managers and employees.

If someone's not doing their job, then those problem employees can be let go and nobody needs to be yelled at or treated poorly. These are entirely different things.

[I'm saying that in certain cases, in addition to the labour laws in your area, activities that take place at work can constitute intimidation under criminal statutes.
***again, this is local - not sure what you're referring to as "intimidation." Pulling a .44 Super redhawk on an employee and telling them they might want to consider revising the memo may be illegal (why not?) but shouting at someone because they didn't read the memo isn't.

Look, I'm not sure why people seem to be so keen to discount a worker's ability to stand up for themselves legally in the workplace.
***Because its wrong eh? And this is not country specific. Go hang out on a trading floor or an investment bank in Canada. They will shout at you in a big way (but of course will say sorry eh!).

The point is this: read up on your local labour laws and your place of employment's policies regarding your rights and expected behaviour. That's it. There really should be no controversy in advising people to better inform themselves.
***Agreed.

Didn't somebody make this thread about GW store employees and their personal experiences there? I thought that was the case.

Oh, internet.

Foo wrote:Look, I'm not sure why people seem to be so keen to discount a worker's ability to stand up for themselves legally in the workplace.

Because, trying to stand up legally when you don't have a leg to stand on is a BAD IDEA. Fantasies about 'hostile workplace' and 'harassment' and 'intimidation' don't do you any good, and stand a good chance of leaving you unexpectedly unemployed. If a manager is behaving in a way that you don't like and it's not one of the narrowly defined protected areas (like sexual harassment or discriminating on a protected characteristic), there is simply no law protecting you. I'm not sure why people seem to be so keen to discount actually knowing what the laws are and what protections they do and don't offer, I find willful ignorance rather pathetic, and it often leads you to bad situations that could be avoided with real facts.

To put it simply, in the US if you don't like the way your boss interacts with you, you can appeal to his sense of decency, his higher-up's sense of decency, and any practical problems the boss's interactions can cause (including your quitting). You cannot appeal to any sort of laws about his behavior (aside from a few specific cases), at all.

The point is this: read up on your local labour laws and your place of employment's policies regarding your rights and expected behaviour. That's it. There really should be no controversy in advising people to better inform themselves.

The controversy is when people like you are worsely informing people on the thread, inventing legal-sounding fictions about protections that simply don't actually exist, like your idea that a manger raising his voice constitutes 'intimidation' and is typically a misdemeanor, when it simply isn't. People better informing themselves is great. People 'informing' others of information that is completely wrong and possibly dangerous is bad. You've got a much better chance of dealing with a bad manager if you make an argument that someone cares about than if you try to threaten him with imaginary legal consequences that don't exist.

Necros wrote:I haven't been to a GW store in a while.. I used to stop in the Franklin Mills store once in a while when it was still around, and I never had any kinda hard sell from anyone. Someone would ask if I needed help, or strike up a quick conversation about what I was buying.. maybe the occasional "need any glue?" when they ring me up.. that's about it. Always had friendly, nice folks working there whenever I was in, which wasn't often but still.

There was a reason for this. Franklin Mill's was in the Philadelphia market. Historically, folks in the Philadelphia region react negatively to being pushed around. I frequented this store. The store survived, along with the Voorhees store, as the managers were A+ and just plan old got it. Do you need to push your veteran games to buy the new stuff out there? Not really. You know when your Vet starts a new army, your getting some purchasing. So really you just keep the Vets happy, they will help to grow your store for you. How do they do it? Showing up with shiney, painted, and well converted armies.

Mills and Voorhees have / had a very good group of core games that went back and forth between both stores. The Vets helped coach younger gamers, and are very very nice people. So your store grows because your patrons are respectful, helpful, and friendly. You end up being able to back off the pushing for sales. Often its just about being a real person. Asking: What are you working on? What's your new paint scheme? Any cool conversions? That usually kicks off the Vets brain.... "oh i ran out of skull white, might as well pick up the other colors and brushes" Bam $30 sale.

BearersOfSalvation wrote:The controversy is when people like you are worsely informing people on the thread, inventing legal-sounding fictions about protections that simply don't actually exist, like your idea that a manger raising his voice constitutes 'intimidation' and is typically a misdemeanor, when it simply isn't.

The controversy comes when people such as yourself ignore the fact that most of the civilized world (such as Canada, where the poster you quote comes from) has laws which look out for the worker, rather than just the corporation.

Indeed, it could be said that America were the aberration rather than the norm when it comes to work place regulation.

Indeed, it could be said that America were the aberration rather than the norm when it comes to work place regulation.

The it would be wrong.

Deadshane1 wrote:If you work in the U.S. NEVER let a supervisor YELL at you. It's called Harassment, there are laws against it.

BearersOfSalvation wrote:You are not protected from a manager yelling at you by law in any US state, your statement is misleading because it implies that only some do not have this protection. I don't know about, and am not commenting on Canadian law.

SilverMK2 wrote:The controversy comes when people such as yourself ignore the fact that most of the civilized world (such as Canada, where the poster you quote comes from) has laws which look out for the worker, rather than just the corporation.

No, it think it comes when people don't actually read what's written and veer wildly from the already veered topic. This part of the discussion came from the first bit I quoted up there. Notice something that it says about location? I bolded it to help you out. And what have I said about laws in other countries? Oh, that I'm talking about the US, and am not commenting on Canadian laws. And guess what? Foo was commenting on US laws too, unless Canada suddenly switched all of their provinces to states while I wasn't looking.

Indeed, it could be said that America were the aberration rather than the norm when it comes to work place regulation.

Which is completely and utterly irrelevant (and probably not true, but Europeans tend to take a very provincial view of the world) - whether the US is the same as everyone or unique doesn't change what the laws in the US actually are. There simply is no 'your manager can't yell at you' law to back you up in any state in the US, and someone relying on those laws in a dispute is quite likely to end up unemployed and quite likely ineligible for unemployment benefits. The fact that things work differently in France or Zimbabwe isn't going to change what happens to the guy in the US, neither is your opinion of US laws.

Frazzled wrote:

Indeed, it could be said that America were the aberration rather than the norm when it comes to work place regulation.

The it would be wrong.

I'm not arguing that it is right or wrong, but that it is a good idea to know the law in your country/state/etc, as well as your company regulations, regardless of what those laws/regulations are, or what powers/protections they have to govern the workplace and what is and what is not acceptable.

Because knowing is half the battle...

SilverMK2 wrote:

Frazzled wrote:

Indeed, it could be said that America were the aberration rather than the norm when it comes to work place regulation.

The it would be wrong.

I'm not arguing that it is right or wrong, but that it is a good idea to know the law in your country/state/etc, as well as your company regulations, regardless of what those laws/regulations are, or what powers/protections they have to govern the workplace and what is and what is not acceptable.

I'm not going to say you just lied, just that this conflicts directly with your previous statement. Here's a helpful quote, from you, just now:

The controversy comes when people such as yourself ignore the fact that most of the civilized world (such as Canada, where the poster you quote comes from) has laws which look out for the worker, rather than just the corporation.

BearersOfSalvation wrote:Which is completely and utterly irrelevant

You see, I do not agree with you - knowing employment laws can only ever help you, no matter where you work, or what company employs you. As your quote collection shows, the initial post on the subject was by Deadshane1 (Made in US) suggesting that it is illegal in the US for managers/etc to yell at employees as it constitutes harassment. There then followed various people from inside and outside the USA commenting on workplace regulation, and various people from inside the USA arguing stringently that there is no such thing as laws which protect employees (even when it is stated that such laws are based on the law in "X" country). Indeed, the matter seemed settled at the end of page 1 and the top of page 2 with various people having corrected Deadshane1 as to the nature of American law on this subject, until your post at the bottom of page 2, which was then questioned by a fellow Englishman, again, on the bottom of page 2.

Your explanation was then quoted by Foo, who suggested that people should look up the laws that govern them, to which you then apparently took exception to and here we are.

(and probably not true, but Europeans tend to take a very provincial view of the world)

I didn't think Americans knew the meaning of irony, but I have been proven wrong

- whether the US is the same as everyone or unique doesn't change what the laws in the US actually are. There simply is no 'your manager can't yell at you' law to back you up in any state in the US, and someone relying on those laws in a dispute is quite likely to end up unemployed and quite likely ineligible for unemployment benefits. The fact that things work differently in France or Zimbabwe isn't going to change what happens to the guy in the US, neither is your opinion of US laws.

Again, I'm not entirely sure how you are getting that anyone is suggesting that it is the case that this is so. The only points calling into question US law on the matter have been people saying "Really?!?! - you have no protection for workers from harassment?!".

I'm still not entirely sure what point you are trying to make here - the vast majority of people from outside the US have simply been clarifying how US law differs from much of the rest of the civilized world (and having read Frazzled's post -replied to below, I would like to clarify that "the rest of the civilized world" is used to differentiate between well, places that are civilized, such as the USA, Europe, America's Hat, etc, and places which will often have rather "uncivilized" labour laws (if they have any at all)).

Frazzled wrote:I'm not going to say you just lied, just that this conflicts directly with your previous statement.

If you note, however, I did not pass any judgment on the state of law in the US or indeed anywhere else, simply that the law in much of the 1st world does protect the worker as well as the employer; which seems at odds with the nature of the law in the US. My second post further clarified that a knowledge of said local laws could only empower you and not hinder you.

I am not entirely certain how you consider me to be lying, or how the two posts somehow contradict one another.

didn't think Americans knew the meaning of irony, but I have been proven wrong

That’s the second time you’ve slammed people of the United States in one thread. Now I’m not going to go Mod here because I m now involved in that thread, but frankly, this reflects poorly on you at this point, and mirrors a narrow minded view. When frazzled calls you narrow minded, you’ve got a problem…

I'm still not entirely sure what point you are trying to make here - the vast majority of people from outside the US have simply been clarifying how US law differs from much of the rest of the civilized world (and having read Frazzled's post -replied to below, I would like to clarify that "the rest of the civilized world" is used to differentiate between well, places that are civilized, such as the USA, Europe, America's Hat, etc, and places which will often have rather "uncivilized" labour laws (if they have any at all)).

In the words of the Immortal Bard: there you go again.

If you note, however, I did not pass any judgment on the state of law in the US or indeed anywhere else,

Well its either a lie, or blind ignorance of your own prejudice. Stating “the rest of the civilized world” impugns the United States. Coming from a poster from the country that invented work houses, your superior view is…misplaced.

BearersOfSalvation wrote:

Which is completely and utterly irrelevant (and probably not true, but Europeans tend to take a very provincial view of the world) -

LOL!! Seriously, I've got a bunch of American workmates, but.. come on ..

BearersOfSalvation wrote:

Foo wrote:Look, I'm not sure why people seem to be so keen to discount a worker's ability to stand up for themselves legally in the workplace.

Because, trying to stand up legally when you don't have a leg to stand on is a BAD IDEA. Fantasies about 'hostile workplace' and 'harassment' and 'intimidation' don't do you any good, and stand a good chance of leaving you unexpectedly unemployed. If a manager is behaving in a way that you don't like and it's not one of the narrowly defined protected areas (like sexual harassment or discriminating on a protected characteristic), there is simply no law protecting you. I'm not sure why people seem to be so keen to discount actually knowing what the laws are and what protections they do and don't offer, I find willful ignorance rather pathetic, and it often leads you to bad situations that could be avoided with real facts.

To put it simply, in the US if you don't like the way your boss interacts with you, you can appeal to his sense of decency, his higher-up's sense of decency, and any practical problems the boss's interactions can cause (including your quitting). You cannot appeal to any sort of laws about his behavior (aside from a few specific cases), at all.

The point is this: read up on your local labour laws and your place of employment's policies regarding your rights and expected behaviour. That's it. There really should be no controversy in advising people to better inform themselves.

The controversy is when people like you are worsely informing people on the thread, inventing legal-sounding fictions about protections that simply don't actually exist, like your idea that a manger raising his voice constitutes 'intimidation' and is typically a misdemeanor, when it simply isn't. People better informing themselves is great. People 'informing' others of information that is completely wrong and possibly dangerous is bad. You've got a much better chance of dealing with a bad manager if you make an argument that someone cares about than if you try to threaten him with imaginary legal consequences that don't exist.

For pity's sake: I'm telling people to inform themselves. I'm not giving them answers.

Frazzled wrote:That’s the second time you’ve slammed people of the United States in one thread.

I hesitate to call it "slamming", especially when it was intended as a lighthearted repost to a slur against Europeans and had a laughing ork at the end*

*Much as that sentence did to show that it is not entirely to be taken seriously and remains purely at the level of banter.

Now I’m not going to go Mod here because I m now involved in that thread, but frankly, this reflects poorly on you at this point, and mirrors a narrow minded view. When frazzled calls you narrow minded, you’ve got a problem…

I respect your moderating choice and your views and will admit that I have been somewhat baiting our American comrades (argh! There I go again with my socialist tongue in cheeking ways! ). As entertaining as it is poking Uncle Sam (and his legions of wiener dogs) I will try to keep myself in check from this point on (notice how I didn't mention "retreating behind the Iron Curtain" ).

Well its either a lie, or blind ignorance of your own prejudice. Stating “the rest of the civilized world” impugns the United States. Coming from a poster from the country that invented work houses, your superior view is…misplaced.

*Points to his clarification above*

Though I will admit it was also a subtle/not-so-subtle dig at American law favouring "big business" over citizens.

EDIT: Fixing quotes

BearersOfSalvation wrote:There simply is no 'your manager can't yell at you' law to back you up in any state in the US.

I am interested to know if Americans think this is a good thing or a bad thing.

Kilkrazy wrote:

BearersOfSalvation wrote:There simply is no 'your manager can't yell at you' law to back you up in any state in the US.

I am interested to know if Americans think this is a good thing or a bad thing.

In the words of the immortal bard: "good, bad, I'm the guy with the boomstick."

You don't like it you're free to get the out and find a better job.

I'll note again this is a cultural thing (regional and business). In finance and investment there is a lot of that, especially in NY. Yelling at someone in the South, or at least Texas, is considered bad form and leads to a higher chance of a hospital visit due to the afront to personal honor (translation: be careful, the yellee may decide to say it and just kick the yeller's ass ).

I've been to the GW store at Concord Mills several times. I'm assuming it follows a typical store layout for GW, but as stores go, I wasn't impressed. I would rather visit any games store that provides access to GW products over a GW dedicated store.

Retail is harsh but nobody should ever endure the kinds of abuse talked about in this thread.

Kilkrazy wrote:

BearersOfSalvation wrote:There simply is no 'your manager can't yell at you' law to back you up in any state in the US.

I am interested to know if Americans think this is a good thing or a bad thing.

By and large I think it's ridiculous and counter productive,seeing a supposed inteligent individual,who's supposed to be "in charge" ranting and yelling like a 5 year old does very little to improve Management/Worker relations.
Sure,the employee may "listen",but respect pretty much goes out the window...and honestly,how productive are employees who " Obey" simply to shut some one up?

The last page or two all appears to be mostly unrelated to miniature wargaming, so it appears about time for a lock. Thanks, folks.