Adepticon 2011 was fantastic, but unfortunately it is over. I, and the other Wardens, wanted to have one centralized place to show case some of our favorite pictures and a place to chat about our great gaming weekend. If you were there too please feel free to add your thoughts. First up is a picture of the Wardens set up.


Here a couple of my favorite close ups.


This is actually a close up of the Executioner objective marker and one of his marines pointing to the one he killed.




And finally another great group photo of our army.



LOL, here is a great picture of Solar_lions Stormraven, its over at the Bell of Lost Souls - Solar's Stormraven

I saw these guys there, didn't know this was you. Great looking armies

Outstanding guys. Love the overall fell on the entire group.

great stuff! how did the games go?

IceAngel wrote:LOL, here is a great picture of Solar_lions Stormraven, its over at the Bell of Lost Souls - Solar's Stormraven

Thanks for the link.. read thru the comments.. by far the most Taxi related comments are winning the day!

SL

Wow, the four Warden armies are really oustanding... And the fluff tying them all makes it even better!!!!

(goes to find his FW Badab War books...)

I'm glad you had a great day, I'm just surprised you didn't mention any prize for the armies... For you must probably have gotten some, haven't you?

Great work lads - and really looks like a cohesive force!

Great job guys! Looks really fantastic together like that.

It's great to see all four armies together. I've only really seen pics of Ice Angel's and Gitsplitta's armies so it is great to Solar's Lamenters in full and the Executioners of course.

Great job guys! Will you be posting the battle reports here with lots of pics?

There will be battle reports, more pics, stories, and more! I'm sure that if you begin to reply a lot to this thread, it will attract the legendary Gitsplitta and he may also join in.

Now onto the battle reports. I will not have pictures of my teammates games, I will instead only post about the games that I was in. I will try to remember as much as I can but for the most part I will summarize what I can.

GAME 1 - Executioners and Tiger Claws - versus "Space Wolves"
I hate to start out on a bad note but the other armies were painted four different well known chapters, but yet they all used the space wolf codex. Not quite WYSIWYG but we didn't care we played any ways. The objective of the first game was to hold the center, with two secondary objectives in each deployment zone. We attempted to meander into the middle to take the charge, but the other team didn't get out of any of their vehicles until the last turn, even then not one of their commanders got out of their rhinos. It was a bit lame but my teammate and I laughed at how terrible our dice were. Quite literally my land raider penetrated an enemy vehicle every turn with lascannons but not once did I roll above a 2 on the damage chart. In the end they held the center, hands down, but we had a draw on the secondary objective. It was a game where the dice gods spat on our faces, but we shrugged it off and moved on.

This picture I think was around turn 4 or 5, it really sums up the situation in the middle. You can also see the "crimson fist" space wolves, lol.



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Game 2

This game was hands down the most fun of our four games. We played this awesome team made up of two dark eldar players and two ork players. They were hilarious and the dice were once again ridiculous. Here is the set up.



It was a diaganol set up, but the objective was to control table quarters. This round it was me and the mantis warriors versus the two ork players. They had a 900 point nob biker unit, three battle wagons, and two deff koptas. The smallest ork army list I had ever seen, lol.



The nob bikers tried to flank us but Gitsplitta pulled out this amazing stalling technique that actually kept all 900 points busy for most of the game, he blocked them in with his razorbacks and they took turn after turn trying to get past, they finally did in turn 4 or 5. Meanwhile on my side I had some interesting battles going on. You can see in the above pictures, I took out a battlewagon with krak grenades. He obliterated most of my vehicles with his deff rolla's but the MVP of the game goes to Gits Ironclad. TWICE it need to roll more then a 1 on three dice to move through difficult terrain and assault. BOTH times he rolled three 1's. It cost us the game and I hold Git accountable, lol.

Hey guys,

Sorry I'm late to pitch in here... I was going to upload some of my photos last night but we lost our internet server and I wasn't able to get it back...

Here are my photo's of our army... similar to those first posted by Ice in the OP, hope you don't mind the repeat.


So here are "The Wardens" set up for judging on Saturday morning...


And a good shot of Ice Angel's Tiger Claws in the back, and Steve's Executioners in front:


Closer look at Solar_lion's phenomenal Lamenters and my Mantis Warriors:


Ice's fantastic Land Raider and terminators:


Executioners on the march!


And the army that stole the show... really. I'm sure Solar will protest, but if you were to poll random individuals who were wandering the hall, it was his Lamenters with the hand painted checker pattern that really wowed everyone. It was a striking display in a very difficult color, and all the hand painted checkers were just amazing. Nice job man.


That's all for now. I'll work on some of the shots I took of other armies on display tonight.

Game 3 - Me and the Lamenters versus an Imperial Guard Mechanized horde.

This battle was a bit frustrating but still a lot of fun. Our opponents dice were on fire! It was an objective based game with kill points as a secondary. I was not aware of this but according to the judge dedicated transports count as a troops choice so you can't have your tactical squad and their rhino on the field to start, only one or the other. Believe me, I disagree with this ruling but the judge is a judge so we continued on. We started as far up in their business as we could and assaulted them ASAP. Unfortunantly Mephiston zipped up ahead and got wasted along with a Stormraven that got blown out of the sky on turn 1. The lamenters did not have a good showing in this game and it was soon only my Astral Claws holding the line. At the end of the game the only living Lamenter was an immobilized, weaponless, stormraven. My lascannon tactical marine accounted for a leman russ and a valkyrie kill which was sweet. Corien Sumatris murdered several dozen guardsman by himself but there were just to many of them. In the end they contested every objective and controlled one. It was a close game and a lot of fun, our opponents were good sports.

Some how I only took one picture of this game, it was a very early shot.



Game 4 - Change up!

Our last game was against a mix of Blood Angel and Space Wolf players, so to change things up a bit Solar Lion went to the other team so that the two lamenter players could be together. The other team were great sports and we had a blast, unfortunantly that meant that I had to face Mephiston, lol. He actually only got one kill the whole game and that was Dante. The game was a lot of back and forth destroying. I got nearly obliterated but the combined Lamenter force and we ended up loosing the primary objective but winning the secondary. The other team was a lot of fun with a cool group of armies.

Here is a picture of our opponents.




This was their turn counter. It was super cool. The helmets on the pegs are all magnetized on and they represent wounds for his characters. So instead of using a dice or whatever he would simply remove a helmet. My teammate in this game was the Sanguinary Guard list and all of his models were well done and magnetized. He walked around with a massive black tool box in which his models were stuck too. It was great.

Yeah the lamenter player never got the right starting tactic on our game. I did however manage to take out several LRuss tanks and a pair of chimera. All the first 3 games were saturated with a large number of vech. Hard when your out gunned. Chimeras with multi lasers/Plasma guns and 2 fire points with multi meltas kinda make your day suck. oh filled with veteran troops.

Still with my lack of help Ice did manage to hold off both players right till the end. Now that's skill.. cause his dice rolling wasn't above average.




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in the last game there were several intresting if not funny moments. Yes Mephiston killed only Dante. However every time he move they all moved away. So He spent the game chasing guys that were always running away. Very funny. ( he had Yellow eyes.. I swear yellow eyes)

The other was when Ice's termie assualted my SR with THammers and LC.. and did nothing to it. Every other game it would fall out of the sky. Thats how fickle Ice's dice rolled. Then nobody paid attention to Ice's lonely rhino near the objective and captures the objective. Sly dog.

Ice's opponent at the end had one guy left and it was our turn to go. he survived all our shooting and an assualt. The immortal of the day!

(Whistles) Taxi nice and clean birds there.

Wardens of the Maelstrom final results.

Overall 166 / 350
Battle 52 / 240
Heads 11 / 32
CC 16 / 32
Theme 44 / 60
Paint 35 / 60
Quiz 8 / 20
Sportsmanship 15
Spirit 4

As you can see we suck at actually playing the game, but are great sports with a decent theme and slightly above average painting skills. lol, now we know what to concentrate on for next year. Out of the 106 teams at the event, the middle team in the battle score had around 100 points, the top most team had 199 in the battle category. Improving that should be fairly easy all we need to do is learn all the rules.

Random tidbit, did you know Adepticon was sponsored by Kraft foods?

Hmmmm.... I wonder what contributed to such a low painting score.



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OK, next round of pics... these are some of the other armies in the team competition I thought were particularly cool or interesting.

Space Wolf drop pod army.... man that' a lot of pods....


Sons of Shatner's ork horde. If I remember correctly, something like 437 orks.... They came in second over-all by just 7 points. Nice guys too.


Really nice Salamanders army with a great board, there were even lights in the buildings behind.


Here's a close-up showing the excellent work on the individual figures and bases.


Team "Scoring Units?" Space Wolf cavalry army.... they had only 134 points worth of "troops" in the entire army. They won one of the categories, but I can't remember which (head hunter maybe?). Sorry for the dark photo, must have forgotten to clean this one up in photoshop.


Another close-up showing the excellent work on the individual figures.


These guys had a really neat display.


And I loved the scorch marks on their drop pods.


This wasn't the best painted IG army there, but I thought it had the coolest display.


This was probably my favorite army on the day... fantastic Nurgle army.


You can see some of the great conversion and painting work on this land raider.


And these converted Valkyries are just too cool for school.

So, there are just a few of the fantastic armies that were on display on Saturday morning. Hope you enjoy them as much as I did!

Bumping append-icitus. If it wasn't for your note in the other thread, I wouldn't have seen this! (Look above!)

Beautiful, beautiful stuff. Kudos to all involved.

Arakasi wrote:Bumping append-icitus. If it wasn't for your note in the other thread, I wouldn't have seen this! (Look above!)

Thanks man, appreciate that. The append Gods are working against me...

Ratius wrote:Beautiful, beautiful stuff. Kudos to all involved.

Thanks man!

Finally have the photos for my battle report. Unfortunately I couldn't find my army lists and such from the day, so you'll have to settle for an "approximate" battle report. When I find the paperwork, I'll come in and amend the battle report in order to get all the details correct. Just a quick reminder that the idea of our team is that it consists of the 4 rebelling chapters in the Badab War... Tiger Claws, Executioners, Lamenters and Mantis Warriors. Since two of our team members began playing 40k in the Rogue Trader era and the Badab War first appeared in the GW lexicon during this period, we tried to make the appearance of our armies as appropriate as possible for this time period in 40k history. Lots of original beakies, pre-heresy jump packs, Mk-1 vehicles, etc. There are of course, things in our armies that didn't exist in 40k back than... but we made an honest effort to present authentic looking armies while still making them viable militarily.

Game 1 saw Solar_lion and I teamed up together. We were facing a razor-spammish Space Wolf list with rune priests with all the nasty woodgies they get and lots of troops, definitely a competitive list.

The Wardens....

Mantis Warriors:
HQ: MoTF
Elite: Iron Clad w/ Hvy flamr & assault launchers, pod
Elite: 5 sternguard w/ 4 combi-meltas & PF, pod
Troop: 5 marines w/ las-plas razorback
Troop: 5 marines w/ las-plas razorback
Hvy: Rifleman Dread, pod

Lamenters:
HQ: Mephiston
Troop: 10 assault marines
apothecary (not sure of FOC)
Hvy: Stormraven w/ TL MMs & Assault Cannons
Hvy: Stormraven w/ TL MMs & Assault Cannons

Our opponents have several las armed razorbacks & rhinos, lots of troops, 2 different ML armed dev squads and wolf priests with all their nastyness.

Goals are to have more points around central objective than your opponent, hold your own objective and I think kill points (can't remember). We have first move. Our plan is simple... use our mobility to take the center in turn 1 and make them take it back from us, doing everything we can to slow them down in the mean time.

Deployment:
I set up my razorbacks and rifleman around a terrain piece in the back right of the board which contains our objective. The intent is to have the far right razorback (which is not in the photo) provide fire support while securing our objective. The rifleman, from cover provides long range vehicle popping ability and a bit of back-up to the tac squad on the objective, while the other rhino slowly works it's way to the center objective while providing supporting las cannon fire. Solar deploys his storm ravens in the center to make a run an the main objective and support my pods which will be attempting to block the opposition's advance.



Turn 1:
We move ahead as planned. Solar's troops unload, my empty pod comes down close to their lines to interfere with their advance and my second pod drops right next to the marker, dropping the sternguard and MoTF into cover by the central objective. On our right my two razorbacks move into firing position. Our shooting phase goes reasonably well and damage or destroy several vehicles (that red razorback on the far right actually was blown up, it's was just set there temporarily), and kill we some of the dev's on the left as well. Their return fire was largely ineffective... the dice gods were with us in turn 1 to be sure, save for my MoTF who gets nuked by one of the SW magic powers right off the bat. Zorch! Until he died... Mephiston nullified about half of their psychic attacks, which helped tremendously.



Turn 2:
We continue to move into our positions and pour fire into the seemingly endless stream of razorbacks and rhinos. My Iron Clad arrives in good order and lands on-target thanks to the homing beacon on the empty pod, mucking up the center nicely. Mephiston moves around on the right of center and begins to chew through whatever is in front of him. Our shooting is once again reasonbly effective, damaging or destroying more vehicles and doing further casualties to one of the dev squads. Luck is still with is and their return fire is limited in it's effectiveness (to be honest it was their bad luck with dice in turns 1 and 2 that kept us in this game).



Turn 3:
We continue hammering away at them with decent effect... but the tide begins to turn as their dice rolling improves and all the troops they have stashed in some of these vehicles start to emerge. We lose the right flank Stormraven and one of my Razorbacks. My troops get out and head for our objective in cover. I think Mephiston finally gets shot to pieces too. Their scouts arrive in perfect position to threaten our objective.



During their assault phase the SW scouts charge my tactical squad and the battle for our objective begins.



Turn 4:
The noose begins to tighten as shooting takes the last of my sternguard from the center, though my other razorback does move in with it's troops to support the effort in the middle and the Iron Clad assaults one of their tactical squads in an effort to prevent them from advancing further. In the rear I am helped by poor power sword rolls on the scouts part and a slow battle of attrition begins.



Turn 5:
We make a valiant last stand. Most of their transports are in flames, Solar's assault squad charges in but there are just too many of them bouyed by their wolf priests psionics. The Iron clad is damaged but has tarpitted one of the tactical squads, however two other squads get through Solar's assault or work their way around towards the central objective. Shooting takes out my last Razorback & immobilizes my Rifleman so he can't help out my tac squad in the rear fighting with the scouts.



In the end they have more points within 6" of the center than we do, they hold their objective and contest ours, and they have us in kill points. So while it was really a close game that went down to the wire, from a battle points perspective the really clean our clocks. I think we get two points... they get the rest.

Great opponents, fun to play, very forgiving of the fact that this was Solar's 4th game using the 5th edition rules.... gave them maximum sportsmanship points. It was a FUN game.... we just got overwhelmed at the end.

Wow, heading straight onto the objective was pretty bold!

What was the point in leaving the Tac squad on your right flank so far from the main battle? Did you expect some nasty things threatening your rifleman Dread? As for Dreads, are you happier than last time with that Rifleman configuration?
I might be planning on building one for the Achlysian Reavers, but I'm still not sure...

Nope, we had an objective marker in that corner that needed a scoring unit to claim it. With the razorback's long-range las cannon, it was a good fit. It fired at a good target each turn so we really didn't miss anything by having that unit deployed back there. If you re-read the "deployment" section I discuss it there. (you and WM.... neither one of you actually READS what I write anymore... do you?) *sigh*

looks like a fun game. I find it incredibly cool to see the mix of color on the board. I love the work you put on those drop pods!

Love the concept of the force, the lamenters really stand out, although being yellow they'd struggle not to.

Overall great idea, well executed.

We did better than we ended up. they were overwealmingly a razorback army. we did a lot of damage but they had to many to hold back with our limited range of models.

We could have held back a turn but we were concentraiting on the game objective ( for once ), Git IC did really force a load of guys to go thru him stoping the right side assualt. The left side is the one that folded ( my assualt guys ) Learned alot.

SL

Looks like some fun games, and some nice pics. Love the reps!

Gitsplitta wrote:Nope, we had an objective marker in that corner that needed a scoring unit to claim it. With the razorback's long-range las cannon, it was a good fit. It fired at a good target each turn so we really didn't miss anything by having that unit deployed back there. If you re-read the "deployment" section I discuss it there. (you and WM.... neither one of you actually READS what I write anymore... do you?) *sigh*

Well... I did, it just didn't click!!! I was just thinking the Dread + Razorback would be enough for holding the objective, but... Ah, yeah, they're not "SCORING"!!!



edit : how about the Rifleman Dread overall performance?

I read your posts!

Sounds like a fun game, really close.

Glad you all had fun

Yggdrasil wrote:edit : how about the Rifleman Dread overall performance?

I can't speak for his overall performance, but in the game that Git and I played together he didn't kill anything except an ork in close combat and then got run over by a battle wagon and exploded.

Lol, that doesn't live up to their fearsome reputation, to say the least...

Lol, I read them too, looks like you had a way fun time with it...... Although in Gits and Solar_Lion's game I didnt notice a comment on why there was 1 rhino/razorback parked on top of the other beside the central objective in the last 2 turns...... or maybe you did and I am suffering from selective reading syndrome :p

Yggdrasil wrote:edit : how about the Rifleman Dread overall performance?

You have to keep in mind that the Rifleman variant is a very specialized piece of equipment that is only effective vs. specific targets. Transports, other dreadnoughts, speeders, kans, all make excellent targets for the rifleman where it's rate of fire and S7 come into play. AV 13+, marines, orks or guard infantry make poor targets as the autocannons armor penetration is poor, or there just aren't enough shots to accomplish anything significant.

So in game 1 with it's plethora of rhinos and razorbacks, there were plenty of optimal targets for the Rifleman, and while I did not keep track of what it killed or did not kill... my feeling was that it contributed significantly to our effort. Keeping in mind that it was a major target for our opponents for obvious reasons and spent part of the game shaken & unable to fire. So I'd give it a solid "B" in game 1.

In game 2 where the only targets were AV 14 battlewagons, nob bikers with good armor and feel no pain or foot orks... there really weren't any targets suitable for it's weaponry, and it ended up in close combat on like... turn 2... so it's hard to say it "failed" because it was simply a poor weapon system for facing that particular army.

Game 3 it was very effective because of the targets available, Game 4 it was not for the same reason.

dantay_xv wrote:Lol, I read them too, looks like you had a way fun time with it...... Although in Gits and Solar_Lion's game I didnt notice a comment on why there was 1 rhino/razorback parked on top of the other beside the central objective in the last 2 turns...... or maybe you did and I am suffering from selective reading syndrome :p

That's why I took that photo... thought it was funny. The vehicle underneath was a wreck & the other one just drove on top of it (after taking it's dangerous terrain test).

I do have a second bat rep ready to go if someone will bump this thread some time today.

Lol, thanks for the answer, so the rhino had a "bump"y ride to the objective??

Riflemen are good, in certain situations as you said Gits. They make nice fire support, but i wouldnt base an army round them.

And 'bump'.

Bam! Or should I say bump.

Game 2:

In game two, the Tiger Claws (Ice Angel) and Mantis Warriors faced a large ork force featuring several battle wagons full of boyz and a 900+ point monster Nob Bike squad. Our opponents were great guys and very accomplished, one of them having taken 6th place in the championship pre-lims the day before. As in game one, they earned top sportsmanship marks from us & were tremendously fun to play against.

As I recall, the scenario involved capturing table quarters, but you needed scoring units from both partners to claim *or* contest a quarter. The command counters (each person had one) could be used to give a single unit the ability to claim or contest a quarter all on it's own. I think the secondary objective had to do with getting units into the opponents deployment zone or kill points or something... when I double check the sheets I'll correct this entry.

Tiger Claws
HQ: FW Tiger Claw libby
Elite: 5 assault terminators (mixed weapons)
Troop: marines in bolter Razorback
Troop: marines in Rhino
Hvy: standard Land Raider

Ice, PM me if I've botched your list and I'll correct it.

Deployment
Dive flag deployment. Ice and I deploy our troops in cover in the lower right in hopes of keeping the quarter (remember it takes both of us). We then give a counter to another unit each so they can strike out in hopes of taking or contesting the neutral quarters to our flanks.


And here's what I'm really worried about. I play orks remember? I know the kind of carnage a full set of ork biker nobs can dish out. I also know that the could go through my entire assembled army like so much sh** through a goose. What in heaven's name am I going to do about these guys?!


Turn 1
So, the orks come hell bent for leather across the table as one would expect.

My foray into one of the neutral quarters with my little razorback and it's 5 marines comes to a screaming halt on the flanks of a Necron pylon.


Ahhh the joys of fighting orks... nothing like a turn 1 assault to make your day.


Or the number of dice a mob of orks can roll...


Ice had successfully popped one of the Battle Wagons, but there were orks pouring out of every orifice on the table. The deff rolla's were closing in and da' boyz weren't havin' non of dem pesky beakies on d'er battlefield. The nob bikers were swinging around our right flank with every expectation of simply blowing through whatever was in their way and rolling our flank. Things were looking grim for the Astartes...

Turn 2
After messing my pants about the oncoming storm of nob bikers... I get an idea. I throw the razorback into reverse, put it sideways, completely blocking the path around the pylon and pop smoke... while the troops inside disembark and run for the cover of the other side of the pylon. My Iron Clad comes down in the middle of the table, and takes a central position in order to threaten everything within a 12" radius. The battle continues on the left flank, but in all honesty it looks like ice has things well in hand.



The 900+ point nob bike unit must now deal with the 70 point razorback before advancing. The smoke does it's job in giving me enough of a cover save that gunfire from the bikes is insufficient to destroy the tank, so they have to charge into cc to finish it off... which they do.



Also during their half of the turn, the battlewagon runs over my Iron Clad. My first big mistake of the game. I should have stayed in place and tried to kill the wagon (which later ran over *everything* with it's rolla). I didn't have a great chance to stop it (50%), and it would have certainly killed my dread... but in hind sight I should have taken the chance. I jump out of the way however and survive in good shape. The battle on the left flank continued to rage on as the Tiger Claws hold tough against a ravenous ork mob.



In the mean time, orks from the remaining battle wagon had piled into my rifleman (which wasn't doing much anyway).

Turn 3
So.... no my dastardly little plan comes to fruition. I disembark my squad from the *second* Razorback... then move IT into position behind the crater left by the first and pop smoke, guaranteeing yet another turn of delay for the 900+ point nob biker squad! Never has one person taken so much delight in feeding perfectly good tanks to one's opponent.



This succeeded in forcing a change of tactics by my opponent, who took the rest of the nob bike squad and moved them back around the pylon so that they'd have a chance of laying claim to one of their own quarters! He left a warboss there to finish off my tank and cause whatever mayhem he could in our backfield. In general... I was delighted that my little ploy had effectively taken the nob bikers completely out of the battle. Let's see, what else. Well, all my Iron Clad had to do was roll a 2 on any one of 3 dice in order to assault the rear end of the battle wagon that had attempted to run over him.... What did he roll??? Yep, 3 ones. Ice and my marines at the lower right pile into the orks fighting the dread. Bad idea (my fault)... we should have just hung out and waited for the orks to finish off the dread and them paste them with bolter fire.



The battle rages on the left flank... I think Ice's termies get out of their raider at this point and go help out with the orks. The darn battle wagon rolls over some stuff, destroying it.

OH, and here's a vanity shot of one of my pods...


Turn 4 (or maybe 5.... I forget)

To make a long story short... having wrecked my last Razorback in assault on Turn 3, the warboss charges into our rear and cleans up on the last of my marines. The darn battlewagon with deff rolla runs over everything else in our rear and along with the warboss successfully contests our quarter. My Iron clad needs only to roll a 2 on one of three dice to assault the Nob bikers, hopefully tarpitting them & preventing them from claiming a quarter, but of course for the second turn in a row... he rolls 3 ones!



On the left, while Ice's termies reign supreme, there's a small nob squad that's contesting our quarter. OH, and my sternguard FINALLY show up and uselessly shoot at the nob bikers, only to be run over by the blasted deff rolla! I should have dropped them in the rear and taken out the battle wagon with their combi-meltas... mistake #3. The deff koptas finally arrive in our rear as well, adding insult to injury.



All-together a very fun game, and a close one. Take out any one of those 3 mistakes of mine and the horrible rolling by the Iron Clad and we might have had a different result.


OH, rating the units:

HQ: D, but not entirely his fault... didn't show up until the last turn, no effect on game
Sternguard: D, reasons above, plus pathetic shooting at nobs, no effect on game
Iron Clad: Epic Fail! (rolled 6 successive 1s on move through cover dice), no effect on game
Razorback 1: A+
Razorback 2: A+
Rifleman: C, not because he did anything, but given our opponents he couldn't really be expected to do anything

Man you guys are a tough crowd! Spend two hours putting together a battle report and not one comment after 24 hours... Ouch!

In fairness I have not had internet access in 24hours...
If each crater represents a detonated vehicle then then it is testament to a bitter game with LOADS OF DESTRUCTION, love it!
That was a really clever trick on the right flank...if only in delaying the eventual pain that they would bring. I think that with the storm ravens of Solar's Lamentars then you would have had a better chance (I say that from the army disposition not to criticise IceAngel's tactical ability in any way...) I think the faster, and more kill-y, storm-ravens would have helped.
I eagerly await number three...

I thought it was an awesome batrep, apologies for just being a lazy Lurker! Pics show off your zenithal highlighting to great advantage, was even shoeing them to the wife! More please, we are reading keenly.

Imperial Monkey wrote:In fairness I have not had internet access in 24hours...
If each crater represents a detonated vehicle then then it is testament to a bitter game with LOADS OF DESTRUCTION, love it!
That was a really clever trick on the right flank...if only in delaying the eventual pain that they would bring. I think that with the storm ravens of Solar's Lamentars then you would have had a better chance (I say that from the army disposition not to criticise IceAngel's tactical ability in any way...) I think the faster, and more kill-y, storm-ravens would have helped.
I eagerly await number three...

I agree completely! However we didn't get to pick our teammates except the final round thats half the fun of the team tournament.

Wow, after rereading the battle report I see a couple things that I should have done that probably would have won us the game. Hindsight right? I will remember this for the next round!

lol, sorry. I still have no intermet at home, so using my moby.

Soumds like a gret game and the tactic with the razorbacls is 1 i can advocate. I have done it more than once including using a vindicator with its gun blowm off, & a couple of rhinos.

Wish i could have been there.


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lol, sorry. I still have no intermet at home, so using my moby.

Soumds like a gret game and the tactic with the razorbacls is 1 i can advocate. I have done it more than once including using a vindicator with its gun blowm off, & a couple of rhinos.

Wish i could have been there.

Gitsplitta wrote:Man you guys are a tough crowd! Spend two hours putting together a battle report and not one comment after 24 hours... Ouch!

So needy! Comments or no, I'm enjoying this immensely - keep it up!

It's a seriously hot weekend in the UK. Be glad any of us even bothered to come indoors and check!

If you can't stop Orks assaulting you then yeah... not much chance! Horrible little things.

I have that FW Ork Warboss on a bike, it is an absolute monster of a model.

That first line makes me wish there was a like button on dakka... unfortunately some of us have exams in about 5 weeks and had to be inside studying :(

OK... finally ready to do game 3. I want to apologize in advance, I thought I had more pictures of this game but as it was the first game we had a chance to win I think I got more caught up in playing than documenting the action.

So, the primary objective of Game 3 was control of objectives. Each team had two objectives which we took turns putting in our deployment zones. You got 6 points for controlling one of your opponent's objectives and 2 points for controlling one of your own. Secondary was kill points which was worth 9 points if you had more. There were also a variety of bonus points to be earned. The tweak to this mission is that you could put your command counter on any (non wheeled or tracked vehicle) unit (Infantry or walkers) that would effectively make it a "trump card". So it could control or contest an objective even if the opponent had non-trump units in the area. So you could only contest an objective held by a trump unit with another trump unit. Interesting twist, and probably the most interesting use of the command counters of the entire tournament.

Steve (The Executioners) and I were paired up for this game. Our armies were a decent match for each other and his plethora of infantry, devastator squad and assault squad compensated for the natural weaknesses of my force very nicely. I think we actually worked better together than I had with my team mates in either of the two previous games.

We were facing a combined force of Blood Angels and Sisters of Battle. Notable elements were a seraphim squad, two kick-butt sisters characters and a Storm Raven. Great guys, their luck in the first two games was the same as ours, so no one had much of an ego at this point... we were just having fun and trying to save a little face on the day.


Turn 1 & 2: Our story begins on turn 2, which is when I remembered to snap the first photo... I have the four objective markers noted by the blue arrows. I believe we had the first turn again. I decided to put my command counter on my Iron Clad as it was the "hardest" unit in my army. Also being podded in, I figured I might be able to bring it down and challenge one of their objectives with my "trump" later in the game. Steve put his trump on his devastators.


Our opponent's had decided to deploy entirely on their right flank, leaving their other objective in the trees undefended. This worked perfectly with my trumped Iron Clad which I podded in nearby. I moved him into the cover of the trees where he remained unmolested for the rest of the game, securing an easy 6 points towards our total. So far, so good. Steve put his tactical squad in the reinforced ruin containing our right-most objective, where they remained unmolested for the rest of the game... securing another 2 points for us. We were both expecting our opponents to make a push to dislodge the Iron Clad from their objective, which is why the assault marines (and Steve's commander) are out in front . However they never did challenge for control of that objective (though Steve's poor assault marines were cannon fodder for a few turns).

Right off the bat, the Storm Raven popped one of my Razorbacks with it's long range rockets. This was quickly answered however by my Rifleman dread which immobilized it in place, taking the multi-meltas (or assault cannons... can't remember) out of the game due to range limitations. My sternguard & MoTF moved in to cover the objective (even though they couldn't actually control it) and both my razorbacks moved to form the left flank of our force and lend supporting las cannon fire. The Blood Angels dropped a tac squad in front of us which provided harassing fire into our line as the rest of their army began it's advance towards our left-most objective.


This is the only time I had the presence of mind to take a shot of our opponents all day. Again, great guys, fun to play, max sportsmanship score. You can see my "distraction" pod burning in the foreground and the evil seraphim and nasty sisters tanks in the background. The empty pod came down and turn 1 and did have the homing beacon on it. Since this is constitutes a significant threat as I could later drop something very unfortunate into the midst of their backfield, it forces the opponent to destroy the pod (which canbe a problem depending on the luck of the dice), which sometimes helps to reduce the heavy weapons fire that other elements of my army have to take. Does give up a kill point though so it's a 50/50 proposition.


A close up of the right had side of the board where the Iron Clad and assault marines lay claim to their undefended objective.

Turn 3:


The critical point of the later battle is the approach of the seraphim. They have the command counter and as such, can contest our objective (which Steve is moving his "trumped" devastators into position to hold. They're also very fast, and can by-pass my entire army in order to do the contesting. As a result they must be completely destroyed before they can carry out their dastardly plan. I take my entire army and move it into rapid fire range. My sternguard fire their "hot" ammo, MoTF let's loose with his plasma cutter, all the marines fire and the razorback joins in. By the time the dust settles, only the commander is left alive. The Rifleman continues to harass the Storm Raven which still has a couple of really annoying plasma cannons active. His assault marines come over to provide support on the left while his commander moves over by the Iron Clad as having him near their objective gets us extra victory points.


Here's a pic of the second important element of our plan... Steve's "trumped" devs moving in to take over our objective as my army moves to the left to protect the flank.

End Game:

Unfortunately I once again got involved in playing and forgot to take pictures. To make a long story short, rather than making a dash for our objective, they decide to go for kill points against my weakened squads (good idea) with the two super nuns and the Blood Angel infantry. The rifleman ends up knocking the plasma cannons off the Storm Raven, preventing an inconvenient shot into my Iron Clad or Steve's commander which would have cost us points. I end up killing the last seraphim... but it costs me my tactical squads (the blood angels joined in). My MoTF successfully defeats the SOB commander in hand-to-hand combat, earning us yet another bonus point, though the last of my sternguard went down in the process.


So...
Primary: We hold both of our objectives and one of theirs, earning us 10 points to their 2.
Secondary: Once again bitten by my armies 11 kill points, they win this objective, earning 9 points. So far, they're winning.
Bonus points: This is where we pull away slightly. We get bonus points for having one of our commanders near their objective, for having both of our command countered units still alive & for killing one of their command countered units & for killing one of their commanders.

So by remaining disciplined and focused about the objectives, and having a little luck, and actually working together rather than just fighting side-by-side... we eek out a modest victory!

:-)



Unit Ratings:

MoTF: A, (decent shooting, finished off a nasty character in close combat... couldn't have asked for more really)
Sternguard: B, (made some good "hot" shots when needed vs. seraphim, harassed Blood Angels tac squad with shooting)
Iron Clad: A, (did exactly what he needed to do... stand there and be too intimidating to be worth attacking)
Troop & Razor 1: C-, (well, they're ride blew up on turn 1 killing two of them... they pitched in at the end though)
Troop & Razor 2: C, (nothing spectacular to report but they did pitch in overall with decent shooting)
Rifleman: A, (prevented the Storm Raven from being a major factor in the battle... good enough for government work)

Am I right in thinking that if a flyer becomes Immobile it craches to the ground?

Only if it's moving really fast.

Great reports!

The armies look absolutely outstanding. Gitsplitta, your Mantis Warriors are really great. Those Lamenters, obviously, are just awesome.

Paint 35 / 60

Gitsplitta wrote:Hmmmm.... I wonder what contributed to such a low painting score.

Not sure. Sometimes they overlook stuff because it's early in the morning and they're hurrying like heck. It can often be a good idea to get judged Friday night if you can manage it, when they have a bit more time. One big thing; up to 4pts can be awarded for conversions, out of 15 total per player. That's huge. It means that to get a really high appearance score, you really need extensive, army-wide conversions; and not just swapping bits from different kits, but probably building custom vehicles and/or sculpting stuff.

Page 6 here has the guidelines:
http://www.adepticon.org/11rules/201140Kteam.pdf

My team only got 27, and I thought we looked pretty nice. Not quite as sharp as you guys (and certainly nowhere close to those Lamenters), but we felt pretty good. Our score was less than half of the available points, though.

If it's any consolation, Redbeard said your stuff looks great, and he's a heck of a tough critic, IME. Won Best Appearance Friday too (and has at least one GW GT Best Appearance as well), so he knows what he's talking about.


Rules notes:

IceAngel wrote: I was not aware of this but according to the judge dedicated transports count as a troops choice so you can't have your tactical squad and their rhino on the field to start, only one or the other. Believe me, I disagree with this ruling but the judge is a judge so we continued on.

This is a startlingly common rule for people to misunderstand. I usually find that it's due to folks starting in 4th edition and never bothering to read the 5th edition rules carefully. Force org "Choices" have nothing to do with deployment in Dawn of War, or in that Adepticon mission, which is basically a modified DoW deployment. In Dawn of War you may deploy up to one HQ "unit" and two Troops "units". In that Adepticon mission each member of a coalition may deploy up to one HQ "unit" and up to one Troops "unit". Despite a Rhino and its squad only taking up one Force org choice, they are, for all purposes, always separate units during the game. See "multiple unit choices" on the page facing Dawn of War in the rulebook. The Dawn of War deployment description in the rulebook actually uses a squad and its transport as a specific example and explicitly tells us that they are indeed two separate units for deployment.

Tactical hint: In DoW to get around this a bit, you can deploy an empty transport with its hatch 8" from the table edge (I place it only 7" if the squad is more than 5-6 dudes to make sure everyone fits), then on turn 1 have the squad just walk onto the table 6" and immediately hop in. Then the transport is free to move. That way turn 1 the squad in their transport can be a bit further up the table if you want.

Miss Dee wrote:Am I right in thinking that if a flyer becomes Immobile it craches to the ground?

There weren't any Flyers in any of these games. If a Skimmer becomes Immobilized, it lands on the ground. Unless it's glued onto the base, in which case the rulebook tells us we can leave it on and assume the engines are just busted in a way that leaves it hanging immobile in the air. If it went Flat Out (over 12") in its own previous move, an Immobilized result against it causes it to crash and die.

Sounds like the dice gods were more on your side this time around.

Did you knock out all the weapons on the Storm raven? If so and immobilised it is classed as a wreck, would have been worth a kill point.

dantay_xv wrote:Did you knock out all the weapons on the Storm raven? If so and immobilised it is classed as a wreck, would have been worth a kill point.

You have to Immobilize it, destroy all its weapons, and THEN cause one more Weapon Destroyed or Immobilzed result, which immediately "rolls over" to become a Wrecked result.

It still had the assault cannons or multi-meltas (can't remember which), but I didn't care about those as nothing was in range. Would have been nice to get the kill point of course, but you can't have everything.

Thanks for clearing that 1 up, I will remember that for future games.

Miss Dee wrote:Am I right in thinking that if a flyer becomes Immobile it craches to the ground?

Gitsplitta wrote:Only if it's moving really fast.

Unly if 'tis Reeedddd!!! Red Wunz Go Fasta!!!!!


Nice report, and good to see a winning battle for you! I can imagine the Iron Clad + Executioner commander
Dread - "You think they'll come? That forest seems important to them."
Exec. Cmdr - "I think these cowards are awed by my camouflage!"
Dread - "Don't you think it's my bulk and DCCWs instead?"
Exec. Cmdr - "Whatever... Sure thing is, the other ladz are getting all the fun while we're camping here!"
Dread - " "

I'm glad the Rifleman Dread managed to be useful in the end...

Also, those Executioners are really great... That camo suits them well, and the chainaxes makes them really brutal!

Steve will be delighted that you noticed the axes! No one at Adepticon put two and two together unfortunately...

I imagine you've hit the nail on the head with that little conversation. Though I imagine a facepalm with a DCCW into the sarcophagus might have bad results... Though... it might make a really funny objective marker. (Dead dread in the facepalm pose, with a crushed sarcophagus underneath the hand (use the hand CCW from the venerable).

Mannahnin wrote:Great reports!

The armies look absolutely outstanding. Gitsplitta, your Mantis Warriors are really great. Those Lamenters, obviously, are just awesome.

Not sure. Sometimes they overlook stuff because it's early in the morning and they're hurrying like heck. It can often be a good idea to get judged Friday night if you can manage it, when they have a bit more time. One big thing; up to 4pts can be awarded for conversions, out of 15 total per player. That's huge. It means that to get a really high appearance score, you really need extensive, army-wide conversions; and not just swapping bits from different kits, but probably building custom vehicles and/or sculpting stuff.

My team only got 27, and I thought we looked pretty nice. Not quite as sharp as you guys (and certainly nowhere close to those Lamenters), but we felt pretty good. Our score was less than half of the available points, though.

If it's any consolation, Redbeard said your stuff looks great, and he's a heck of a tough critic, IME. Won Best Appearance Friday too (and has at least one GW GT Best Appearance as well), so he knows what he's talking about.

Thank for helping clarify some things. Being this was our first judged competition it's good now to have a base of reference. Still thinking that having some materials or “ talk “ sheets on what was done might be helpful in the future.( You can only do so much with marines as opposed to doing chaos). There were lots of little and subtle things in each army and overall theme wise we focused on.

Thanks to Redbeard as well.

SL ( Lamenters )

You guys got onto the BoLS Adepticon video!

Around 6:30

http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2011/04/adepticon-video-highlights-and-lowlifes.html

Whos the guy shepherding the armies?

Mannahnin wrote:Great reports! The armies look absolutely outstanding. Gitsplitta, your Mantis Warriors are really great. Those Lamenters, obviously, are just awesome.

Thanks! Too many months of my time poured into it... but I do like how things turned out.

Not sure. Sometimes they overlook stuff because it's early in the morning and they're hurrying like heck. It can often be a good idea to get judged Friday night if you can manage it, when they have a bit more time. One big thing; up to 4pts can be awarded for conversions, out of 15 total per player. That's huge. It means that to get a really high appearance score, you really need extensive, army-wide conversions; and not just swapping bits from different kits, but probably building custom vehicles and/or sculpting stuff.

Page 6 here has the guidelines:
http://www.adepticon.org/11rules/201140Kteam.pdf

My team only got 27, and I thought we looked pretty nice. Not quite as sharp as you guys (and certainly nowhere close to those Lamenters), but we felt pretty good. Our score was less than half of the available points, though.

If it's any consolation, Redbeard said your stuff looks great, and he's a heck of a tough critic, IME. Won Best Appearance Friday too (and has at least one GW GT Best Appearance as well), so he knows what he's talking about.

Thanks Mannahnin, I appreciate that. I guess since it was our first big event for all of us, we didn't have anything to compare it to... but I was hoping for a bit more above average than a 35 since our appearance was really what we were banking on. (it certainly wasn't our competitive lists or brilliant generalship) Will have to go through the guidelines and see if I can identify where we fell short so we can address those things for next year.

The guy at the table wearing green was no other than the Gitsplitta himself. Who by the way also got hunted down by The Black Library.

THE BLACK LIBARY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

why?

I'll let git tell this one.. but I can add that he is just that cool!

SL

Oh, it was no big deal. The Black Library sponsors a competition each year for armies based on Black Library books. Since the Mantis Warriors have appeared in a couple of (rather infamous) Black Library short stories, the guys thought I should go up and volunteer us. I did, though I was honest about the fact that our team wasn't really based on a book so much as had a consistent theme with one.

In any case, they were very nice, let us slide into the competition at the last minute, came over and saw & photographed some of our stuff and were very complimentary of our efforts. We didn't win anything of course, but I thought they treated us very well considering we weren't really a serious contestant. There was supposed to be a photo of our stuff on their web site, but I'm no good at finding things like that... (it's why I like dakka so much... it's idiot proof = gitsplitta proof). I guess if they post their own Adepticon report you might take a look at it. You might see a picture of my ugly mug holding my Iron Clad dread.

It took me 2 goes to see the axes on the pads.

Btw Gits, i love your beard!

I guess I'll have to go look at that pic so I can see what everyone's commenting on....

I don't think I'd shaved in days at that point... am I really disgusting looking?

Theres only about a 2 or 3 second glimpse of you, most of it is focussed on the army.

You look very dashing!

haha that vid was awesome! nice to have a face for a name... even a blog name

That video is cool. You can actually hear all of us in it except Steve. To bad he came by when they were starting to announce stuff because he hardly had a chance to talk with us or check out our set up. He was a cool guy though.

OK, like the video... two blurry passes that last about 1/4 second each. That... I can deal with! :-)

Actually it was nice of him to stop by and show interest.

Just saw the videop, very nice... you guys did a stellar job.

Thanks dantay, it was a fun project, but not one that I wish to repeat for a while. We all decided that next year we don't want to paint up whole new armies for Adepticon. Of course I got lucky this year in that our team was kind of based around my main army... but we'll see if we can come up with a cohesive theme for next year that doesn't involve everyone spending 4 or 5 months painting like slaves to complete.

I think we've got some good ideas for where to go with the "Wardens of the Maelstrom" where we can keep the name and spirit of the group while varying our armies each year. We shall see how things go as the year progresses and we each make progress on our normal variety of models.

Really good painting by the looks of it.

Thanks you sir! We tried our best.

It sounds like a good plan, I can imagine scratch building new armies each year, while fun would also be a pain.

Working to the same theme will take a lot of pressure off

The added advantage of "evolving" your current armies into next years tournament is that you will become more familiar with the armies and the lists, you have time to add new units/ drop some units and get a playing style down which suits you and compliments your other team members more.

Lol, you never know, you might inspire another team to create an opposing Badab force to the Wardens. That would be fun to see on a tabletop.

It would... though I actually think we'll got in an entirely different direction next year (i.e. not Badab War). Might be fun to revisit the Badab War armies a few years down the line. Make them more competitive, refine the lists, etc. For now though, I would expect a major departure to a new set of rebels & renegades.

What happened to the Tiger Claws and Executioners after the badab war finished?

The Lamenters were reprieved I think but I know nothing of the other 2 chapters.

Hmmm, for a complete departure, could go for an Armageddon theme.... Ghazgkhull, Orkimedes, Nazdreg & co..... that way you could utilise your orks

Lets see...

The Tiger Claws turned into the Astral Claws & finally into the Red Corsairs and went renegade and retreated into the maelstrom itself.
The Mantis Warriors had their home world stripped & were sent after the Astral Claws.
The Lamenters were fed to the tyranids (HF Leviathan I think)
No idea what happened to the executioners.

Solar_lion and I were considering orks... he wants to do pirates and I want to do grot rebels. But as we were just kicking ideas around it'll depend what Steve and Ice would like to do as well, so we'll see. At this point there's no rush... and besides, we all need a break from "painting to a purpose" so we can pursue the projects that we find fun and inspiring.

and the other side
yarrick and guardsmen with a cupole of sm chapters joining in

Gitsplitta wrote:Though I imagine a facepalm with a DCCW into the sarcophagus might have bad results... Though... it might make a really funny objective marker. (Dead dread in the facepalm pose, with a crushed sarcophagus underneath the hand (use the hand CCW from the venerable).

Sitting down looking confused and dazed would be best!

The Armageddon thing would be neat, but after talking to the black library guys I think we should pick a book to go after. The Battle for Armageddon has probably already been done once or twice as well.

I think as long as it has orks for Solar and Git, Steve and I can try to cover the other side of things. I think it's time to peruse the library for ideas!

That's fine with me Ice. And we were just kicking ideas around based on things we were interested in... so we're flexible.

I've just always wanted a Grot Rebellion army, though I don't want to run them as guard but as a regular ork list, just with grots as all the major players. I already have a grot bike squad which I could probably modify into grot nob bikers, lots of kans, grot artillery and once Iffy gets done with the painting she's doing for me... lots of foot grots, and I've been dying to get the forge world grot tanks (which I think I can run as rocket buggies or something like that).

I suspect the Armageddon thing is very old and well chewed. Let's see if we can find something more interesting and recent to pursue.


Might even be able to grotify my ork mega-dread for our IA element.

Gitsplitta wrote:That's fine with me Ice. And we were just kicking ideas around based on things we were interested in... so we're flexible.

I've just always wanted a Grot Rebellion army, though I don't want to run them as guard but as a regular ork list, just with grots as all the major players. I already have a grot bike squad which I could probably modify into grot nob bikers, lots of kans, grot artillery and once Iffy gets done with the painting she's doing for me... lots of foot grots, and I've been dying to get the forge world grot tanks (which I think I can run as rocket buggies or something like that).

I suspect the Armageddon thing is very old and well chewed. Let's see if we can find something more interesting and recent to pursue.


Might even be able to grotify my ork mega-dread for our IA element.

Grot Battle Tank Mob's are legal in the team tournament. You could use them as is! That'd be fun. Oh, the mega dread is legal as well!

Yeah, but we only get one IA thing right? So I'd have to pick one or the other.

True, I pick a big ole mob of grot tanks! Have you seen their rules? They would be a lot of fun.

I haven't, but I'll make a point of looking for them. Been jonesin' for those since I first saw them and would love an excuse to pick them up. Do you know which IA they're in?

And the thought of a grot nob biker squad just makes me all warm and fuzzy on the inside. :-)

I think some grot nob bikers along with a big ol'mob of grot tanks would be incredibly amusing. (btw a big ol'mob of grot tanks equals 6)

IceAngel wrote:I think some grot nob bikers along with a big ol'mob of grot tanks would be incredibly amusing. (btw a big ol'mob of grot tanks equals 6)

Agreed, problem is they both take elite slots, and the tanks require a big mek which would mean I couldn't take a warboss to make the nob bikers scoring & count as troops. Somehow this army needs two HQ's. Hmmm.... might be fun for the championships with a more flexible FOC. Still, I'm sure we can work it out.

How about theming it aroung the battle for Rynns world?

Orks attacking the Crimson Fists homeworld and almost wiping them out.

You Have Kantor & Kortez as notables from the crimson fists plus the Captain in charge during the siege of new rynss city. Then you could use guard as pdf (there is a female character in the book but i do not think she fights much). Then there are those who relieve the crimson fists.

Then you have the overfiend who attacks rynns world and his cohorts of orks.... during the invasion he managed to build a gargant!!! You could use he big mek and the grot tanks themed as scavengers for the great warlords nefarious plans.

The grot tanks are in IA8 and are an FA choice. I will PM you a scan of the rules when i get home Gits.

How about some Heresy theme? There are plenty of BL books to give inspiration... And some stories don't even mention Space Marines!

Cool Vit, thanks! I think they'll just HAVE to find their way into my list of necessary purchases, one way or the other.

@Yggs: No space marines... and play what then?? Guard? blech...

Vitruvian XVII wrote:The grot tanks are in IA8 and are an FA choice. I will PM you a scan of the rules when i get home Gits.

Git and I were looking at them and there is a little section that says in certain games they are elite choices. Please let us know!

dantay_xv wrote:How about theming it aroung the battle for Rynns world?

Orks attacking the Crimson Fists homeworld and almost wiping them out.

You Have Kantor & Kortez as notables from the crimson fists plus the Captain in charge during the siege of new rynss city. Then you could use guard as pdf (there is a female character in the book but i do not think she fights much). Then there are those who relieve the crimson fists.

Then you have the overfiend who attacks rynns world and his cohorts of orks.... during the invasion he managed to build a gargant!!! You could use he big mek and the grot tanks themed as scavengers for the great warlords nefarious plans.

genius.i would love to see that as I am an ork and crimson fists player myself

+1 for rynns world

or you could base your theme on the book, A thousand sons. pre heresy thousand sons and space wolves

Love the idea of seeing some orks on the field!

What about Tau? (inside humor)

Honestly would go with our original armies before Chaos. We have a head start on them already!


SL

Sorry guys, it appears i was mistaken, the grot tanks are FA in the FW ork list, otherwise theyre Elites + you need a big mek.

Apologies.

Gits, i PM'd you.

Gitsplitta wrote:@Yggs: No space marines... and play what then?? Guard? blech...

That was just in case, some of you were fed up with the Emperor's finest... I'm glad you're not!