All from Warseer on April 4th

stinger989 wrote:
Some new info about the upcomming tau, again this is just rumors so take as you will.

HQ choices are used to unlock units for troops, so a commander in a crisis suit unlocks crisis suits as troops, an etheral unlocks fire warriors, shaper unlocks kroot, demiurg commander for demiurg as troops.

crisis suits-
mostly same stats but now 3 wounds
come with every gun option and you can choose what weapon systems you fire every round. cost (land speeder + extra HB) per model, squad size max 5

broadsides-
can take network markerlights instead of the missiles on their arms

more later.

Ghost of War wrote:
I can vouche for Stinger as we were at Adepticon this weekend together. Also a few things it looks like he missed.

Only the commander can take a shield generator. The shield generator functions exactly like the shadowfield for the dark eldar. 2+ until missed. Also...

Drones are no longer bought as wargear. They are bought as a unit and then divided as you see fit that the start of the match. You can mix your drones when bought for the point cost needed. This addresses the Drone Squadrens etc as an option.

So you could see who your playing and decided if your shield drones are needed more on the crisis or the broadsides.

One markerlight can fire the seekers off one model. Seekers replentish and are no longer one use items. = Skyrays will be the new WIN (only able to fire one model a round.. so no chain firing tons of missiles off a skyray)

He is right, nothing is troops until you unlock it with a HQ or character.

I was a bit stunned to hear the above, and if it wasnt from the same source as the Grey Knight rumors that Stinger had.. I would have called BS. But I would bank on it.

stinger989 wrote:
Lol thanks gow I was gonna slowly release more but that works too. Another small part added to the shield generator is it makes the model eternal warrior until he fails his save so ignores the first instant kill. Only the team leader can take it though

Yes skyrays will be the new god tank as missiles always hit side armor so mech will be a very hard army to fight with against tau.

More to come as I get some games in against the new book.

Wow so there are no "standard" troops?

Someone was only joking the other day about 5 suits per troop choice.
Guess they knew something or got lucky.


Waiting for a bit more info on them before i decide to shelf my daemons again.

snake wrote:Wow so there are no "standard" troops?

Quite odd that is

Also, the Commander can only take the shield generator? Time to say good bye to Elites holding up against Vendetta fire.

The Crisis suits having every weapon sounds phoney to me. Also the HQ unlocks troops sounds a little too complicated to be real. I'd have to say other parts are plausible though.

I'm doubting that the troops unlocked thing works exactly as described (perhaps it'll make certain things troops, i.e. kroot are now fast attack unless a shaper is taken), but sounds good. I'm guessing that the unmentioned fire warriors are the basic troop, but taking an etheral gives them an auto-Ld boost, so that the Etheral gets in on this troop-boosting fun. That's just a guess.

I was a little confused about the skyray. So they're saying that it auto hits side armor, but it can only shoot one missile a turn, or only at one model per turn, meaning that units that get markerlight hits cannot launch missiles from it? Sad day, I always liked the idea, however impractical, of shooting of 4-5 missiles in the first turn, just for how cool that would look.

Also, if a skyray could deepstrike (now that land raiders can, I see no reason for a large skimmer to be able to...), that'd be a dream come true. But probably just a dream.

And so now suits cost 60 points (Land speeder + a HB, no idea why they didn't just say that), with an extra wound and no restrictions for their wargear? I'm all for the bonuses, but doubling in price seems a bit much.

The networked markerlights on a broadside sound like a good idea.

Some interesting stuff there. At this point I think Tau are so far away still that many of that stuff might change or has changed already during playtesting, but it shows some fun ideas by GW if it's true.

Yes skyrays will be the new god tank as missiles always hit side armor so mech will be a very hard army to fight with against tau.

This is interesting in particular. It works wonders against Chimeras and Predators although doesn't do anything against Raiders/Venoms/Razorbacks/Rhinos.

I'd hope they add some special rules to railguns also, like being able to hit multiple units/vehicles in a straight line etc.

Demiurg and/or Kroot as troops choices sound a bit weird though. If that's true then Tau will be a combined random xenos races book instead of a Tau army book only, making it the next best thing to Codex: Kroot and Codex: Squats.

Surtur wrote:The Crisis suits having every weapon sounds phoney to me.

How so? There's 2 other units in the game that do it, why shouldn't Tau(who are more advanced than both other books) get one?

Surtur wrote:Also the HQ unlocks troops sounds a little too complicated to be real.

Again, it's not too complicated for other books, the only difference is that this takes it to the extreme end of something we've all seen coming.

If true, of course.

interesting... I hope they don't destroy the background and rules as they did for the Grey Knights.

A while ago there was a proposed rule thread for the Tau, and I made the Suggestion that Drones should be bought separately and then placed into units/vehicles at the start of each game.

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/326557.page#2125949

I do not often gloat, but I would like to take this moment to say, "Called it".



Anyways, enough of that silliness



I also like the Idea of the different HQ's making different units troops.

I will be very sad if Crisis suits are T4 with 3 wounds. This makes them very similar to Tyranid Warriors and they are not taken often due to the vast number of S8 Guns (missile long fangs, vendetta) and S8 Powerfists. You will need a LOT of Shield Drones to keep these guys alive, especially if they are 60+ pts a pop...

I think its great the HQ part, it allows people to make alien armies (pure kroot or pure tau etc) and suit armies with ease so no need for special characters etc and they could easily introduce newer races to the fray expanding the tau empire.

I will be very sad if Crisis suits are T4 with 3 wounds.

For 60 points a pop they better be T5. It's a strange thing though: If they're T4 W3 they're absolutely awful. If they're T5 W3 SV3+ with shield drones and jet packs and all weapons they're very good. The instant death mechanic just isn't very good for balance.

dont forget bs3.

60 points for bs3, t4, 3+, crap in cc, no invul. Yeah, no thanks.

Maybe the all gun option means a weapon that can change ammo types like the Forge World X-9 Commanders rifle ? ? ? ? Or maybe meant they get a choice of all weapons available to put on a suit when you buy the unit ?

Frankly, I'm more concerned about whether or not they re-tool the look of the Crisis Suits. GW Crisis Suit = Fail. FW Crisis Suit = Win. Same with the Pirhanas - useful boats, but ugly as hell. If they can fix those, I'll start thinking about taking up Tau again.

This way, people will find that suits are worthless, and will have to buy many new models to make their army competitive again! Yay!

It's almost as if GW is trying to get our money....

Actually, that'd explain why the skyray is being made so amazing. Now I'm expecting some boost for piranhas, or for gun drone squads. Maybe now they're just "drone squads", so they can have marker drones!

Yeah, I'm just wishlisting at this point.

P.S. I wish the fellows who have these sources would bother to post in a coherent, grammatically correct fashion. Oh well, beggars can't be choosers.

Platuan4th wrote:

Surtur wrote:The Crisis suits having every weapon sounds phoney to me.

How so? There's 2 other units in the game that do it, why shouldn't Tau(who are more advanced than both other books) get one?

Surtur wrote:Also the HQ unlocks troops sounds a little too complicated to be real.

Again, it's not too complicated for other books, the only difference is that this takes it to the extreme end of something we've all seen coming.

If true, of course.

Because of the full list of wargear available to crisis suits means that many weapons would probably be cut or un-optimized. Oblits have a huge list sure, but the recent Jokaro are 3 weapons and with the list of possible weapons what would be twin linked and what wouldn't? Or would there be even more complex rules regarding weapon selection and twin linked. It may be true, but there would be some serious sacrifices if it's done.

Yes, right now we have special HQs that allow certain units to go else where in the army, but to have the entire troops selection be based on it is a bit much. I mean you can't even take firewarriors in troops without a certain hq? This would wreak havoc on tau's ability to hold objectives without certain HQs and make the army a lot less flexible.

Sounds like interesting stuff, though this far out I'll be sprinkling liberally with salt.

Just hope we don't end up seeing GW adopt those fugly forgeworld crisis suits. I might have to buy up a few extra just in case.

Forgive me for asking, but is there any timeline regarding the release?

Current rumor are Necrons by in Aug/Sept, then SoB, then Tau.

That keeps with the xenos / imperium / xenos release schedule we've been seeing.

Seems like they heard the calls for the ability to make an all crisis suit army. Mobile Suit Gundam Sept?

Death By Monkeys wrote:Frankly, I'm more concerned about whether or not they re-tool the look of the Crisis Suits. GW Crisis Suit = Fail. FW Crisis Suit = Win. Same with the Pirhanas - useful boats, but ugly as hell. If they can fix those, I'll start thinking about taking up Tau again.

Funny thing is, from what I have read on the internet and heard at my local shop, most people disagree with you completely. I think the Piranha is awesome, but I agree that some of the Forgeworld models look good, (although some are really ugly - like anorexic anime)

Hope it's true. Maybe new rumors means a closer release

If the HQ is true i would expect for aguments sake that the options will exist in other FOC and move to Troop but could FW have a "always scoring rule" to give us some traditional unit to do so (purly speculative on my part

I hope GW will take this opertunity to rework the Battle suites to be more like FW tau battle suits.

I am hoping for Tau soon, after GW fixes more codexes that need repair such as necrons of course. There is plenty of FW models, and has been for quiet some time now, to make a move on this. All that is needed is rules to be hammered out...I may just be dusting off my Tau soon!! If under two years is considered soon I mean.

So Tau before or after Necrons and another Imperial codex?

I wonder if they fixed their fluff----or if Tau will continue to be the most naive/dull race in the galaxy. Hopefully for Tau players they're getting the Kelly treatment.

I'm not sure how a feel about this. I don't care about the T4 W3 thing. They need to be BS4 at base. If they want to compete their suits need to be BS4. End of discussion.

Also a drone that lets people escape CC when they are overrun. Like a FS detonator but available as a drone

I'm calling a load of BS on this. Half these rumors don't make sense, seem like blatant wishlisting, or go against logic in general.

Also, "I can vouch for such and such because we did xyz together" is not really a valid reference. So you met someone, great, what does that have to do with what you claim to know?

Also:

Platuan4th wrote:

Surtur wrote:The Crisis suits having every weapon sounds phoney to me.

How so? There's 2 other units in the game that do it, why shouldn't Tau(who are more advanced than both other books) get one?

Because one of the two units that can do it is a warpspawned mutant beast that can literally fashion any weapon it needs from its own body. The other is an alien monkey that has always been described in the fluff as being able to mcguyver any sort of technological tool it needs whenever it feels like, from random objects just lying around. Whats the Tau excuse? Did Crisis Suits all of a sudden become alien warspawned monkeys and someone declined to inform me?

Interesting updates, thanks.

Just remake the suits, and I'll buy at least 8 of them.

So you met someone, great, what does that have to do with what you claim to know?

Because if this didnt happen, no rumor would ever start.



Also, who says something has to be warpspawned or alien?
The fact that tau are the most advanced race would stand to reason on its own.

AgeOfEgos wrote:I wonder if they fixed their fluff----or if Tau will continue to be the most naive/dull race in the galaxy. Hopefully for Tau players they're getting the Kelly treatment.

From what I've read, Ward is doing Necrons, Kelly SoB, and Cruddance is doing Tau.

To tell you the truth, I think Cruddance writes rules worse than Ward. We'll see how this turns out.

I didn't post this because I couldn't believe this "no standards but 3 life Obliterator" rumour. Doesn't make sense to me.

micahaphone wrote:I'm doubting that the troops unlocked thing works exactly as described (perhaps it'll make certain things troops, i.e. kroot are now fast attack unless a shaper is taken), but sounds good. I'm guessing that the unmentioned fire warriors are the basic troop, but taking an etheral gives them an auto-Ld boost, so that the Etheral gets in on this troop-boosting fun. That's just a guess.

That sounds like the most likely explanation to me, and follows the trend of other codecies.

chaos0xomega wrote:I'm calling a load of BS on this. Half these rumors don't make sense, seem like blatant wishlisting, or go against logic in general.

Also, "I can vouch for such and such because we did xyz together" is not really a valid reference. So you met someone, great, what does that have to do with what you claim to know?

Also:

Platuan4th wrote:

Surtur wrote:The Crisis suits having every weapon sounds phoney to me.

How so? There's 2 other units in the game that do it, why shouldn't Tau(who are more advanced than both other books) get one?

Because one of the two units that can do it is a warpspawned mutant beast that can literally fashion any weapon it needs from its own body. The other is an alien monkey that has always been described in the fluff as being able to mcguyver any sort of technological tool it needs whenever it feels like, from random objects just lying around. Whats the Tau excuse? Did Crisis Suits all of a sudden become alien warspawned monkeys and someone declined to inform me?

Is it so far fetched to think that maybe crisis suits will be fitted with a bunch of different weapon systems? Makes more sense than a damn ape that can fashion a new weapon from scrap each turn.

They seem like plausible choices from a playtest book, but things that would all be ruled out eventually. I can't see there ever being an unlock needed to take Fire Warriors as troops.

augustus5 wrote:Is it so far fetched to think that maybe crisis suits will be fitted with a bunch of different weapon systems? Makes more sense than a damn ape that can fashion a new weapon from scrap each turn.

Or the same weapon with different effects, ala Sternguard. This would actually make more sense than 6 or 7 different loadouts.

On the subject of I.D., I remember emailing GW sometime after 3rd edition came out purposing a 2x/3x system (double the strength, 2 wounds, triple, 3 wounds). Then again, I don't know if this wouldn't make shooting a lot less effective.

And I really hope Tau get new suits. The latest ones from FW are just fabulous.

Sasori wrote:

AgeOfEgos wrote:I wonder if they fixed their fluff----or if Tau will continue to be the most naive/dull race in the galaxy. Hopefully for Tau players they're getting the Kelly treatment.

From what I've read, Ward is doing Necrons, Kelly SoB, and Cruddance is doing Tau.

To tell you the truth, I think Cruddance writes rules worse than Ward. We'll see how this turns out.

Cruddance is doing Tau---sorry Tau players. Be prepared for God Tier or Garbage Tier choices.

Kelly is doing SoB? Oh my ^^

I agree with you too----my hierarchy of rules writers;

Kelly----Ward--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------Cruddance

Ward just writes fluff like a 9 year old----his theme/rule set is usually pretty good.

augustus5 wrote:

chaos0xomega wrote:I'm calling a load of BS on this. Half these rumors don't make sense, seem like blatant wishlisting, or go against logic in general.

Also, "I can vouch for such and such because we did xyz together" is not really a valid reference. So you met someone, great, what does that have to do with what you claim to know?

Also:

Platuan4th wrote:

Surtur wrote:The Crisis suits having every weapon sounds phoney to me.

How so? There's 2 other units in the game that do it, why shouldn't Tau(who are more advanced than both other books) get one?

Because one of the two units that can do it is a warpspawned mutant beast that can literally fashion any weapon it needs from its own body. The other is an alien monkey that has always been described in the fluff as being able to mcguyver any sort of technological tool it needs whenever it feels like, from random objects just lying around. Whats the Tau excuse? Did Crisis Suits all of a sudden become alien warspawned monkeys and someone declined to inform me?

Is it so far fetched to think that maybe crisis suits will be fitted with a bunch of different weapon systems? Makes more sense than a damn ape that can fashion a new weapon from scrap each turn.

They are fitted with a bunch of weapons systems currently. You can pick up to three, if you pay the appropriate points cost.

Someone care to explain why Cruddace is so bad, perhaps citing evidence of previous work?

The latest imperial guard codex is incredibly dull compared to the old one and is quite inconsistant when it comes to usefullness of units but it is okay in general. I cant remember who wrote tyranids but they deserve the hate, both dull and apparently nerfed.

EDIT: I wonder what will happen to sniper teams lol. If yo could attach them to pathfinders akin to heavy weapon squads for guard that would be neato.

RC did IG and Bugs.

Well, they're not overpowered, crazy-new-rule creating books like Mr. Ward's, but both the IG and 'nid books were well thought out and had many different playstyles and fun new units in them. I've heard a lot of complaining about the tyranid codex, but it is well made, with several good units and setups. I for one welcome this fellow. Bad luck on the last name, though.

Perkustin wrote:The latest imperial guard codex is incredibly dull compared to the old one and is quite inconsistant when it comes to usefullness of units but it is okay in general. I cant remember who wrote tyranids but they deserve the hate, both dull and apparently nerfed.

EDIT: I wonder what will happen to sniper teams lol. If yo could attach them to pathfinders akin to heavy weapon squads for guard that would be neato.

Cruddance wrote both of those codexes.

Perkustin wrote:The latest imperial guard codex is incredibly dull compared to the old one and is quite inconsistant when it comes to usefullness of units but it is okay in general. I cant remember who wrote tyranids but they deserve the hate, both dull and apparently nerfed.

You know, it's funny, because I heard people say the exact same thing about the 4th Ed IG Codex when comparing it to the 3rd Ed Codex. There's nothing dull about the new codex - it's got more vehicle choices than any previous IG codex. As far as inconsistency in the usefulness of units, that's nothing new at all. That's the way all the Codices are - some units are more useful than others. Just the way it is. And considering the standings that IG take in the tournament scene, I think there's quite a few folks out there that would argue the effectiveness of the army.

And as far as 'Nids go, they were okay until the FAQ nerfed them. Not spectacular, but certainly better than they are now.

micahaphone wrote:Well, they're not overpowered, crazy-new-rule creating books like Mr. Ward's, but both the IG and 'nid books were well thought out and had many different playstyles and fun new units in them. I've heard a lot of complaining about the tyranid codex, but it is well made, with several good units and setups.

+1. And say what you will about Ward's writing, but from a rules perspective, the SM Codex still stands up well against newcomers like SW and BA.

chaos0xomega wrote:I'm calling a load of BS on this. Half these rumors don't make sense, seem like blatant wishlisting, or go against logic in general.
Also, "I can vouch for such and such because we did xyz together" is not really a valid reference. So you met someone, great, what does that have to do with what you claim to know?
Also:

Platuan4th wrote:

Surtur wrote:The Crisis suits having every weapon sounds phoney to me.

How so? There's 2 other units in the game that do it, why shouldn't Tau(who are more advanced than both other books) get one?

Because one of the two units that can do it is a warpspawned mutant beast that can literally fashion any weapon it needs from its own body. The other is an alien monkey that has always been described in the fluff as being able to mcguyver any sort of technological tool it needs whenever it feels like, from random objects just lying around. Whats the Tau excuse? Did Crisis Suits all of a sudden become alien warspawned monkeys and someone declined to inform me?

My guess is they don't come equipped with all of them, but all of the guns are AVAILABLE to them. The question becomes, can each member of a squad take different weapons for wound allocation purposes?

And if a Crisis suit is 60 points BEFORE upgrades, it better be BS4 and T5.

Cruddance is alright. The tyranid codex has some issues but the IG one was well done. I think that all the recent codexes have had well-written rules and multiple builds.

I just think salt when it comes to the "new" crisis suits. I can see there being "elite" suits that have that ability, but not all of them. It would be kinda like in the GK codex with Terminators vs. Paladins.

micahaphone wrote:This way, people will find that suits are worthless, and will have to buy many new models to make their army competitive again! Yay!

It's almost as if GW is trying to get our money....

Actually, that'd explain why the skyray is being made so amazing.

If you haven't been buying the Skyray now, you're a fool. It's the same cost as the Hammerhead, with all of the Hammerhead sprues, PLUS the Skyray parts. Hell it's even got two turrets.

Personally if RC is writing the Tau book, I'll be ok with it, his previous two have been solid lists with a lot of choices. a few must have units and a few units that you look and say WTF?! Fluff in nid book is ok, and the IG is not so memorable, sadly I love the WFB fluff better than 40k but prefer to play 40k than fantasy.

chaos0xomega wrote:

augustus5 wrote:

chaos0xomega wrote:I'm calling a load of BS on this. Half these rumors don't make sense, seem like blatant wishlisting, or go against logic in general.

Also, "I can vouch for such and such because we did xyz together" is not really a valid reference. So you met someone, great, what does that have to do with what you claim to know?

Also:

Platuan4th wrote:

Surtur wrote:The Crisis suits having every weapon sounds phoney to me.

How so? There's 2 other units in the game that do it, why shouldn't Tau(who are more advanced than both other books) get one?

Because one of the two units that can do it is a warpspawned mutant beast that can literally fashion any weapon it needs from its own body. The other is an alien monkey that has always been described in the fluff as being able to mcguyver any sort of technological tool it needs whenever it feels like, from random objects just lying around. Whats the Tau excuse? Did Crisis Suits all of a sudden become alien warspawned monkeys and someone declined to inform me?

Is it so far fetched to think that maybe crisis suits will be fitted with a bunch of different weapon systems? Makes more sense than a damn ape that can fashion a new weapon from scrap each turn.

They are fitted with a bunch of weapons systems currently. You can pick up to three, if you pay the appropriate points cost.

I know, I played Tau for a long time. You just make it sound like it's an insane idea to have a battlesuit with a bunch of weapons loaded up on it. I don't think it's all that far fetched and much less far fetched than a stupid looking orange ape that can pick up battlefield scrap and fashion a weapon in seconds.

To be honest, none of these rumors appeal to me. An increase in points for an extra wound? Only invulnerable saves for the commander?

My Plasma Rifle/Missile Pod/Shield Generator suits would slam these without question. At lest they would get a 4+ invulnerable and would be worth every point

Even the skyrays: missile spam? Please, this is no solution to the current issue with tau. We need more reliable firepower, not simply more things to throw at the enemy.

Surtur wrote:

Platuan4th wrote:

Surtur wrote:The Crisis suits having every weapon sounds phoney to me.

How so? There's 2 other units in the game that do it, why shouldn't Tau(who are more advanced than both other books) get one?

Surtur wrote:Also the HQ unlocks troops sounds a little too complicated to be real.

Again, it's not too complicated for other books, the only difference is that this takes it to the extreme end of something we've all seen coming.

If true, of course.

Because of the full list of wargear available to crisis suits means that many weapons would probably be cut or un-optimized. Oblits have a huge list sure, but the recent Jokaro are 3 weapons and with the list of possible weapons what would be twin linked and what wouldn't? Or would there be even more complex rules regarding weapon selection and twin linked. It may be true, but there would be some serious sacrifices if it's done.

Yes, right now we have special HQs that allow certain units to go else where in the army, but to have the entire troops selection be based on it is a bit much. I mean you can't even take firewarriors in troops without a certain hq? This would wreak havoc on tau's ability to hold objectives without certain HQs and make the army a lot less flexible.

That's my view too.

If FW remain rubbish and Ethereals remain rubbish, and Crisis suits become rubbish due to being expensive T4 Instant Death magnets, then what the hell are Tau actually going to use to fight with.

A Skyray that replaces a Broadside team and can only shoot one missile a round, if someone gets a Markerlight hit first?

There are so many things I want them to do with Tau. Make it so I don't have to castle up in a corner to win games. Make it so I don't have to sacrifice units to buy more turns of shooting. Make it so my Fire Warriors can take take a Fusion Blaster or two (won't happen, but a man can dream). For the love of all things holy, make everyone BS4. Give me unique HQ's that aren't god awful. Give my Pathfinders Stealth USR so they aren't blown to kingdom come Turn 1 (and while we're at it, they don't need that Devilfish). Make it like the Space Marine codex in that almost every unit is usable (maybe not tournament usable, but can make a decent list). Give me new Vespid models. Now. Make Tau the best shooting army there is (like they damn well should be).

But whatever they do, PLEASE don't take away my 5 point disruption pods. Please don't take away the frustration on my opponent's face when I brush off seemingly every single penetrating hit they can muster. Oh the fun I have with disruption pods!

I think it is guaranteed that D pods will change.

Disruption pods are nice but they still only have 50% chance to stop a hit from over 12 inches.

D pods might become a 5+ cover save for all your tanks. 5+ saves on tanks seems to be the new thing to do. (flicker-fields, SW/BA Spells)


Tau should be able to get special weapons in their fire warrior squads, BUT they will get then in the form of drones. Then you do not have to change anything.

micahaphone wrote:Well, they're not overpowered, crazy-new-rule creating books like Mr. Ward's, but both the IG and 'nid books were well thought out and had many different playstyles and fun new units in them. I've heard a lot of complaining about the tyranid codex, but it is well made, with several good units and setups. I for one welcome this fellow. Bad luck on the last name, though.

Do you actually play Tyranids? By your post I'm guessing you don't. Codex Tyranids was a blatant money grab. It made popular but limited older options completely obsolete and nigh worthless (e.g.: Carnifexes and Lictors), while forcing expensive new models down our throats (e.g.: Trygons and Hive Guard). It robbed the army of any sort of flexibility, character or feel that the previous codex had done a fantastic job of creating, while presenting dull and idiotic new options that sounded like a nine year old had named them (Tyranofex, really?). It also eliminated the viability of numerous units (anything T4 with multiple wounds basically: warriors, lictors, ravenors), especially in the current mech / missle spam environment.

The Tyranid codex is a piece of crap through and through, from pathetic nerfing of existing units (160 pt Carnifexes?) as to make new models more desirable, to a disgusting homogenization of army builds (there's basically The Tervigon list), to units that make no in sense and are a hodgepodge of pointless rules (looking at you Venomthropes and Pyrovores).

Following on after Codex Imperial Guard and Codex Space Wolves, the Tyranid codex was, and remains, an utter failure. That the book somehow made it out to printing is an insult to Tyranid players. That many years later it remains the most unsupported book shows that GW just couldn't give two s about the Tyranid army. There is nothing "well made" about this book, and "several" good units is not enough. It shouldn't be a few gems among a pile of gak, it should be a full fledged, viable army book, just like all the others. But it's not. It's not anything close.

augustus5 wrote:

chaos0xomega wrote:I'm calling a load of BS on this. Half these rumors don't make sense, seem like blatant wishlisting, or go against logic in general.

Also, "I can vouch for such and such because we did xyz together" is not really a valid reference. So you met someone, great, what does that have to do with what you claim to know?

Also:

Platuan4th wrote:

Surtur wrote:The Crisis suits having every weapon sounds phoney to me.

How so? There's 2 other units in the game that do it, why shouldn't Tau(who are more advanced than both other books) get one?

Because one of the two units that can do it is a warpspawned mutant beast that can literally fashion any weapon it needs from its own body. The other is an alien monkey that has always been described in the fluff as being able to mcguyver any sort of technological tool it needs whenever it feels like, from random objects just lying around. Whats the Tau excuse? Did Crisis Suits all of a sudden become alien warspawned monkeys and someone declined to inform me?

Is it so far fetched to think that maybe crisis suits will be fitted with a bunch of different weapon systems? Makes more sense than a damn ape that can fashion a new weapon from scrap each turn.

Maybe the all gun option means a weapon that can change ammo types like the Forge World X-9 Commanders rifle.

Just a thought but could the rumor about battlesuits being able to take every weapon option (or however it was worded) mean that standard suits would be allowed to purchase AFPs or CIBs instead of being able to take every battlesuit weapon at the same time.

I like the idea of differant HQs giving differant troop options, if the Ethereal unlocks Fire Warriors as Troops they better make the choice worth a damn I'm also curious to see how the Kroot HQ will work options wise because I loved Anghkor Prok when he was legal.

As far as the suits go I think the FW suits are ugly with the exception of one and I actually don't have an issue with the current suits but it would be nice if they updated them. If they make them like FW suits though I'll be buying as many old ones as I can.

WHile i find it highly doubtful that suits have every weapon - ala obliterators I could see GW dumbing it down and saying pay X and choose any two weapon systems rather than the current +4 for this +16 for that. We are a nation of idiots afterall and applying simple math skills is asking too much out of a player so making it as simple as possible makes sense in a GW kind of way.

I think the current crisis and broadside suits look way better than the comparable forgeworld models. the FW ones look like they can't decide how they want to look. The current suits may be a little boxy when compared to the vehicles, and stealthsuits, but the FW XV-8X variants are just all over the place. Ugly.

now give me the option to take some of those beautiful XV-9's and that baby is sold.

all of these rumors sound silly and undesirable. I would be money that there is a grand miscommunication in regards to the battlesuit weapon one in particular. it's not beyond the realm of possibility that the Tau could invent something akin to digital weapons, heck with hard-wired systems there's already a precedent for them to have this tech, but I really don't see that happening with weapons. (the monkey by the way has his weapons built into his rings before the battle starts.)

what I would like more than anything else would be to have a choice of armour for my commander. I'd love to be able to use a commander with no suit, crisis suit, stealth suit or (in an ideal world) XV-9.

Interesting rumors, but this all seems more like speculation than info.

Honestly, the buying HQ option = unlock this troop makes a LOT of sense, fluffwise, for Tau.

Think about it; Tau is just a conglomeration of a ton of different races allied to survive. So, if you wanna play an "allied" army, the best way would be to make basic troops, well, a troop. Meaning you can buy a Shaper and a Commander and have an allied suit/kroot army, or buy a demiurg/etheral and get an allied firewarrior/demi army. Thinking about it makes me all giddy; Tau will have soooo many different configurations! That means I won't always be facing crisis suit spam with a few firewarriors, which will be nice.

If the rumors true, I think its a great new mechanic that fits the fluff of tau. Crisis suits I don't see having EVERY gun, but perhaps 2-3 guns. I agree, T4 w/ 3 wounds is kinda meh, but 3 wound T5 troops for 60 points that can get drones to soak up invun wounds would be borderline broken. Maybe an elite or something, but troops? Of course, I think a xenos race really needs to be in the spotlight, too much focus of SW, IG, BA, and GK's... DE was an awesome book, sad to see so few on the table (which is why I started em)

What I think would be cool is a Target drone, where a vehicle can use the drones line of sight instead of their own, Hammerheads firing around corners anyone? But the victims should get a decent cover save.

This is a thread for rumors, not wishlisting. Please keep all proposed rules to the 40k Proposed Rules forum.

If the rumour about Demiurg getting a HQ and troop choice is accurate, you can sign me up to the Greater Good, no doubts.

It'd be the final straw, I've been resisiting Tau for ages.

All the rumors really make this sound less like "Codex: Tau" and more like "Codex: Aliens with Tau dudes, really!"

OnDebit wrote:I think the current crisis and broadside suits look way better than the comparable forgeworld models. the FW ones look like they can't decide how they want to look. The current suits may be a little boxy when compared to the vehicles, and stealthsuits, but the FW XV-8X variants are just all over the place. Ugly.

wow, you're definitely the first person that i've seen express that viewpoint. everyone else i've met who cared to comment likes the FW designs better because the curves and overall shape better match the other tau stuff in the army (the vehicles, firewarrior armor, etc). that doesn't make your opinion wrong as it is simply a style choice with no right answer but just in the minority.

I like the current ones. They're the reason I picked up Tau. If they switch to the FW ones, I'll be buyin up all the current style I can.
But it's neither here, nor there. There are no indications what ones will be used and it doesn't pertain to this rumor at all. I'm curious to see if the ethereals will be useful at all.

Therion wrote:

I will be very sad if Crisis suits are T4 with 3 wounds.

For 60 points a pop they better be T5. It's a strange thing though: If they're T4 W3 they're absolutely awful. If they're T5 W3 SV3+ with shield drones and jet packs and all weapons they're very good. The instant death mechanic just isn't very good for balance.

Yep. Default instant death needs to be GONE. Instant death needs to be a USR and possible event that triggers from specific wargear. Currently, it makes multi-wound models impossible to balance, embarrassingly terrible if T3, still nearly unplayable at T4, suddenly excellent if T5?

My one true hope is that these rumors about crisis suit troops with three wounds and a cost increase are true... as GW will hear the muted trumpet fail-song play when people just don't run the tyranid warriors AGAIN in a new dex.

Then 6th edition will see multi-wound T4 models not be a terrible joke, and then maybe *gasp* people will take a plasma gun here and there.


In regards to the discussion of the other rumors. It sounds nuts at first, to not have an always available troop, and that might end up changing. But if the ethereal ended up being priced in the haemonculus/sanguinary priest range, and had similar abilities, then it wouldn't be too crazy to see a 2 HQ army, rocking one expensive shooty 'lord' and the supportive wizard-esque ethereal as a 'hero'.

I find the believability scale on all of these rumors to be very high. Obliterator/jokearo style weapons systems on crisis suits is pretty damn elegant, crisis suit troops with a sacrifice seem just fine to me, the distribution of drones seems very cool, and another smart way to streamline unit upgrades.

But until they "fix" double toughness instant death, this army will have nearly zero impact on the metagame. Oh no, they have jet pack infantry troops! Oh, but I can still fire my three vendettas at them to devastating effect, just like razorback spam? Ok, nevermind, I'll just run my same IG list I've been running for 18 months.

I wonder what packages GW will be changing when the Tau are released? This has been a trend for better or worse from what I have been seeing.

TheTrueProtoman wrote: I wonder what packages GW will be changing when the Tau are released? This has been a trend for better or worse from what I have been seeing.

Yeah, i wonder quite a bit on that too.

It seems like for the most part they are eliminating the half-box. I can't think of anything recent that has come out in that sized box. So does that mean 3 crisis suits in the fat standard box for 50 dollars? Does that mean one recut crisis suit model with more options in the thin standard box for 22 dollars?

outside of broadsides and crisis suit, most of the stuff fits the current box strategy... kroot are weird in their 16 man per big box, but they'd likely get recut... maybe or maybe not included new plastic hounds and/or oxen

I do agree this doesn't sound like Codex: Tau, it does sound like tau, on the the level with several other allied races.

Does anyone have an actual guess as to when tau are coming out? Necrons are rumored in july/august so then itll be another imperial codex, possibly a big book combining the updates and points cost of out of date SM chapters (like the old Armageddon codex) or witch hunters new codex around december/january, then maybe Tau around february/march? This is not even considering Fantasy releases so may be shorter/longer wait.

My guess is that they will come with a lot of stuff as "Standard" instead of having to buy a bunch of upgrades. (look at the way tyranids were re-done, you can buy certain upgrades, but mostly you get weapons or USR's and not statline changes or special rules.)

My guess is that BS 4 is standard on Most Suits, maybe even the ability to shoot two guns. (like an MC not at two targets).


The thing is, if different HQ's unlock different things as troops, they are going to have to work VERY hard to get the balance just right.
Otherwise, [A] HQ unlocks [B] as troops, which is clearly the best option. If you take [C] as troops instead I hope you like loosing...

If Fire Warriors are not awesome, and ethereals are not great either, You will probably never see another Fire Warrior on the table. (maybe the same for crisis suits if they end up not being good, but a lot of people like how they look)

svendrex wrote:look at the way tyranids were re-done

No! Don't look! They're hideous! *sob*

Shep wrote:

Therion wrote:

I will be very sad if Crisis suits are T4 with 3 wounds.

For 60 points a pop they better be T5. It's a strange thing though: If they're T4 W3 they're absolutely awful. If they're T5 W3 SV3+ with shield drones and jet packs and all weapons they're very good. The instant death mechanic just isn't very good for balance.

Yep. Default instant death needs to be GONE. Instant death needs to be a USR and possible event that triggers from specific wargear. Currently, it makes multi-wound models impossible to balance, embarrassingly terrible if T3, still nearly unplayable at T4, suddenly excellent if T5?

My one true hope is that these rumors about crisis suit troops with three wounds and a cost increase are true... as GW will hear the muted trumpet fail-song play when people just don't run the tyranid warriors AGAIN in a new dex.

Then 6th edition will see multi-wound T4 models not be a terrible joke, and then maybe *gasp* people will take a plasma gun here and there.


In regards to the discussion of the other rumors. It sounds nuts at first, to not have an always available troop, and that might end up changing. But if the ethereal ended up being priced in the haemonculus/sanguinary priest range, and had similar abilities, then it wouldn't be too crazy to see a 2 HQ army, rocking one expensive shooty 'lord' and the supportive wizard-esque ethereal as a 'hero'.

I find the believability scale on all of these rumors to be very high. Obliterator/jokearo style weapons systems on crisis suits is pretty damn elegant, crisis suit troops with a sacrifice seem just fine to me, the distribution of drones seems very cool, and another smart way to streamline unit upgrades.

But until they "fix" double toughness instant death, this army will have nearly zero impact on the metagame. Oh no, they have jet pack infantry troops! Oh, but I can still fire my three vendettas at them to devastating effect, just like razorback spam? Ok, nevermind, I'll just run my same IG list I've been running for 18 months.

Man that post is so good it should be bookmarked. Double toughness ID makes units on the edge----become trash.

GW wake up---Str. 8 weapons abound---and aren't going anywhere. Hopefully 6th will see that mechanic removed.

I think Instant Death is a critical part of the game. If they made it so it had to be double toughness +1 (IE: strength 7 to ID T3, strength 9 to ID T4, etc) might work, and make Tyranid Warriors, crisis suits, and so on far more viable.

I like the idea of Tau being a coalition force. It seems like a theme they've always had but never fully fleshed out due to resources. I'm all for this codex being Codex: Tau and Friends.

agreed. instant death is needed in this game and the problem lies elsewhere... specifically in that GW prices those multiwound yet insta-killable creatures as if the rule didn't exist. add me to the list of players that would prefer 2 wound crisis suits with a bs of 4 instead of 3 wound point sinks. how the hell is a tau professional soldier with at least 8 years of combat experience and advanced technology equal in marksmanship to a guardsmen who just finished basic training and is armed with an iron sight???

Perhaps it's because it soon won't. Maybe these codices are being written with the next rulebook in mind. A few USR's change and suddenly SW's aren't as scary.

streamdragon wrote:All the rumors really make this sound less like "Codex: Tau" and more like "Codex: Aliens with Tau dudes, really!"

Yeah, they should seriously think about renaming it "Codex: Tau Empire"
I still have my doubts about this set of rumours, but having Tau/Kroot/Demiurg generals leading Tau/Kroot/Demiurg armies would be a serious blow for all "Tau see all other races as inferior and love genociding them" threads

AgeOfEgos wrote:I wonder if they fixed their fluff----or if Tau will continue to be the most naive/dull race in the galaxy. Hopefully for Tau players they're getting the Kelly treatment.

Is that an office reference or do I watch too much office?

GMMStudios wrote:

AgeOfEgos wrote:I wonder if they fixed their fluff----or if Tau will continue to be the most naive/dull race in the galaxy. Hopefully for Tau players they're getting the Kelly treatment.

Is that an office reference or do I watch too much office?

Too much of the Office I'm afraid - he's referring to Phil Kelly, and how he writes really solid codices.

Kroothawk wrote:

streamdragon wrote:All the rumors really make this sound less like "Codex: Tau" and more like "Codex: Aliens with Tau dudes, really!"

Yeah, they should seriously think about renaming it "Codex: Tau Empire"
I still have my doubts about this set of rumours, but having Tau/Kroot/Demiurg generals leading Tau/Kroot/Demiurg armies would be a serious blow for all "Tau see all other races as inferior and love genociding them" threads

There is no part of a demiurg list, with demiurg HQ and Troops that says "Tau". There is only an associative relationship between a Kroot HQ and all Kroot troops that makes it a "Tau" army. Forgive me if I expect a "Codex: Tau" army to actually have... ya know, Tau!

I don't have a problem with extra sub-races being brought in, so long as the HQ all remain Tau - the Tau fluff does a reasonable job of justifying the 'we hire mercenaries for any specialist combat roles we can't do so well ourselves' concept. Plus it really amps up the modelling possibilities. (And Demiurgs will make all the Squat fans semi-happy )

An all battle suit army? - yay!

streamdragon wrote:There is no part of a demiurg list, with demiurg HQ and Troops that says "Tau". There is only an associative relationship between a Kroot HQ and all Kroot troops that makes it a "Tau" army. Forgive me if I expect a "Codex: Tau" army to actually have... ya know, Tau!

Who do you expect to steer the Crisis Suits, the Broadsides, the Stealth Suits, the tanks and other skimmers then
And are you aware of the 4th edition "Codex: Tau Empire"?

GMMStudios wrote:

AgeOfEgos wrote:I wonder if they fixed their fluff----or if Tau will continue to be the most naive/dull race in the galaxy. Hopefully for Tau players they're getting the Kelly treatment.

Is that an office reference or do I watch too much office?

Yeah, too much Office . I was talking about Phil Kelly.

streamdragon wrote:There is no part of a demiurg list, with demiurg HQ and Troops that says "Tau". There is only an associative relationship between a Kroot HQ and all Kroot troops that makes it a "Tau" army. Forgive me if I expect a "Codex: Tau" army to actually have... ya know, Tau!

The evolution/devolution, ret-con/furtherance of background in wargaming is as inevitable as the scores of grognards gnashing and wailing against change...

The secret to gaming happiness? Make room in your life for change... 40k backstory isn't the bible, nor is it world history. I think its fun when things change, or when we get a new perspective on an old story.

Brother SRM wrote:

GMMStudios wrote:

AgeOfEgos wrote:I wonder if they fixed their fluff----or if Tau will continue to be the most naive/dull race in the galaxy. Hopefully for Tau players they're getting the Kelly treatment.

Is that an office reference or do I watch too much office?

Too much of the Office I'm afraid - he's referring to Phil Kelly, and how he writes really solid codices.

AgeOfEgos wrote:

GMMStudios wrote:

AgeOfEgos wrote:I wonder if they fixed their fluff----or if Tau will continue to be the most naive/dull race in the galaxy. Hopefully for Tau players they're getting the Kelly treatment.

Is that an office reference or do I watch too much office?

Yeah, too much Office . I was talking about Phil Kelly.

Bahaha. Funny because if you think hard enough the reference still could work...

But now I am just trying to justify too much Office..

Croooow! wrote:There are so many things I want them to do with Tau. Make it so I don't have to castle up in a corner to win games. Make it so I don't have to sacrifice units to buy more turns of shooting. Make it so my Fire Warriors can take take a Fusion Blaster or two (won't happen, but a man can dream). For the love of all things holy, make everyone BS4. Give me unique HQ's that aren't god awful. Give my Pathfinders Stealth USR so they aren't blown to kingdom come Turn 1 (and while we're at it, they don't need that Devilfish). Make it like the Space Marine codex in that almost every unit is usable (maybe not tournament usable, but can make a decent list). Give me new Vespid models. Now. Make Tau the best shooting army there is (like they damn well should be).

But whatever they do, PLEASE don't take away my 5 point disruption pods. Please don't take away the frustration on my opponent's face when I brush off seemingly every single penetrating hit they can muster. Oh the fun I have with disruption pods!

While I won’t comment on these rumors validity, or lack there of, I will say a few things about the Tau in regards to this: If their rules stay even close to what they are now in testing, and since that’s nearly over I think they will, then they will be an incredibly versatile army. Their new allies, along with the expansion of the roles and units of current allies really give the tau a lot. The suits are also currently strong against pretty much everything except quick melee juggs like thunder wolf / noob biker squads and pretty freaking deadly almost to the point of being OP.

Though no, Fire warriors are not going BS 4.

GMMStudios wrote:

Bahaha. Funny because if you think hard enough the reference still could work...

But now I am just trying to justify too much Office..

Hah, no need to justify that--great series.

Certainly, while the idea of being able to field pure Kroot or pure Demiruge forces is fun(read Awesome) , I'd rather they get their own books for that. for various reasons, the Kroot, Vespid, Demiurge and whoever else have all decided to pledge themselves to the greater good and become part of the Tau Empire. I guess I just want them to remember that it's Codex: Tau... and Friends, not Codex: Tau/Kroot/Demiurge/Vespid/whoever.

any more than one unit from each alternate race and I feel like the Tau are getting pushed out of their own Empire. now, if they did something like they did in the 3rd edition book, where there's like an elite Demiurge, a heavy support Demiurge and a troop Demiurge, but have them all work as one unit, that'd be cool. they could even have a Demiurge HQ, but again, on the field I'd want it all to be one unit. and of course, all of the extras would hopefully not take up FOC slots.

and in regards to the crisis suits, apart from the helmet they actually match the Firewarriors very well. all of the armour platting on the basic Firewarrior (again, apart from the helmet) have slightly smoothed, yet distinctly sharp edges to them just like the XV8 suits. it's like there are boxy suits on one end of the spectrum, curvy vehicles on the other, and Firewarriors smack in the middle balancing the whole thing. just my opinions of course.

additionally, while I'd love for the whole army to have BS4 as a base stat, unless they get rid of, or change the function of, Markerlights I don't see it happening. or if it did they'd be much higher points cost

Shep wrote:
I find the believability scale on all of these rumors to be very high. Obliterator/jokearo style weapons systems on crisis suits is pretty damn elegant, crisis suit troops with a sacrifice seem just fine to me, the distribution of drones seems very cool, and another smart way to streamline unit upgrades.

I don't believe these rumours at all. It would make Crisis suits pointless to model. I also think that Demiurgs are just wishful thinking by the people who want to see Squats back.

Personally, I would quit Tau if the part about Crisis suits is true. Most fun part of playing Tau is the configurability, and generic "flying Obliterators" would totally destroy that. GW has taken HUGE criticism in the past whenever they have attempted to "streamline" the army like that, surely even they won't make that mistake yet again?

If the codex was really good it would harmonize when you used all races you could have an all kroot/demiurg/tau army but it would be as good.
@Steamdragon I know your pain

OnDebit wrote:Certainly, while the idea of being able to field pure Kroot or pure Demiruge forces is fun(read Awesome) , I'd rather they get their own books for that. for various reasons, the Kroot, Vespid, Demiurge and whoever else have all decided to pledge themselves to the greater good and become part of the Tau Empire. I guess I just want them to remember that it's Codex: Tau... and Friends, not Codex: Tau/Kroot/Demiurge/Vespid/whoever.

any more than one unit from each alternate race and I feel like the Tau are getting pushed out of their own Empire.

I agree with this line of thinking. In fact I would go so far as to say that I would not welcome the addition of many more, if any, auxiliary type troops. We understand that the Tau are a "welcoming" empire but I would hate to see them diluted to the point where it becomes a motley crew.

winnertakesall wrote:I do agree this doesn't sound like Codex: Tau, it does sound like tau, on the the level with several other allied races.

It sounds like Codex: Tau Federation, which I would like as long as it is actually a good codex on the tabletop.

Tabitha wrote:
While I won’t comment on these rumors validity, or lack there of, I will say a few things about the Tau in regards to this: If their rules stay even close to what they are now in testing, and since that’s nearly over I think they will, then they will be an incredibly versatile army. Their new allies, along with the expansion of the roles and units of current allies really give the tau a lot. The suits are also currently strong against pretty much everything except quick melee juggs like thunder wolf / noob biker squads and pretty freaking deadly almost to the point of being OP.

Though no, Fire warriors are not going BS 4.

This person seems to know what they are talking about. So I am quoting this so it doesn't get lost at the bottom of a page.

snake wrote: We understand that the Tau are a "welcoming" empire but I would hate to see them diluted to the point where it becomes a motley crew.

at least some of the tau hairstyles are already reminiscent of the band with the same name/different spelling so they'll match! ba-da-bum. tsss... thank you, thank you! i'll be here all week!

Kroothawk wrote:

streamdragon wrote:There is no part of a demiurg list, with demiurg HQ and Troops that says "Tau". There is only an associative relationship between a Kroot HQ and all Kroot troops that makes it a "Tau" army. Forgive me if I expect a "Codex: Tau" army to actually have... ya know, Tau!

Who do you expect to steer the Crisis Suits, the Broadsides, the Stealth Suits, the tanks and other skimmers then
And are you aware of the 4th edition "Codex: Tau Empire"?

Very aware, have had to play against it several times. I think it's a great example of how I'd like to see Tau with other races done, actually. I have no problem with demiurg, kroot, vespid and what have you being added to a Tau army book. As has been pointed out several times, the Tau do like to add races to their Collective Federation. But an army book about Tau should focus on Tau. They should be the "mainstay" of the army, so to speak. Bringing back Codex: Squats at the cost of Tau does a disservice to the Tau players out there.

Shep wrote:The evolution/devolution, ret-con/furtherance of background in wargaming is as inevitable as the scores of grognards gnashing and wailing against change...
The secret to gaming happiness? Make room in your life for change... 40k backstory isn't the bible, nor is it world history. I think its fun when things change, or when we get a new perspective on an old story.

Considering I've been playing since 2e, I think I'm familiar and comfortable with change. How many new books have been added since then?

But again, this isn't about "OMG KEEP THE TAU HOW THEY ARE!!", this is more about making sure that the Tau don't end up second fiddle to other things in their own book! I'm all for more races showing up in the 40k universe, I am. My thought is that GW would be silly to create a Codex called Codex: Tau, and then use it to allow entire armies of non-Tau to be fielded. At that point, why do we have Codex: Tau and not Codex: New Race? It, to me, cheapens the Tau book overall. I don't have a problem with new books being added (come on Codex: Hrud!), nor do I have a problem with older lists coming back (I'd love for my Genestealer Cults to be viable outside Apocalypse, for instance!). I just think it wouldn't be fair to Tau players for their new Army book to not focus on the Tau, with Tau as the main bulk of the army. A few pocket units here and there is one thing, an entire army is another.

And honestly? Fluff is very secondary to me in this game. Considering they've dropped the whole "Starchild and Sensei" bit from the fluff, turned up some army characteristics so far they've gone to plaid, and changed my Orks to fungus, I basically look through the fluff the same way I'd read a comic book.

Clang wrote:I don't have a problem with extra sub-races being brought in, so long as the HQ all remain Tau - the Tau fluff does a reasonable job of justifying the 'we hire mercenaries for any specialist combat roles we can't do so well ourselves' concept. Plus it really amps up the modelling possibilities. (And Demiurgs will make all the Squat fans semi-happy )

An all battle suit army? - yay!

This is basically what I'm getting at. Every army fielded from the Tau codex should at least have a small feeling of being a Tau force. I know old Squat players want desperately to believe that their army will come back, but if (and I heavily stress the IF), IF it does, it shouldn't be at the expense of another army. This is the Tau book, keep it for the Tau.

mebe keep the 1 unit of fire warriors minimum thing and have a tau commander that is MANDITORY in every army, very customisable and doesent take up a FOC position to represent the real commanders.

streamdragon wrote:My thought is that GW would be silly to create a Codex called Codex: Tau, and then use it to allow entire armies of non-Tau to be fielded.

Codex: Grey Knights says hello.

Vhalyar wrote:

streamdragon wrote:My thought is that GW would be silly to create a Codex called Codex: Tau, and then use it to allow entire armies of non-Tau to be fielded.

Codex: Grey Knights says hello.

I have, admittedly, not perused the new piece of dren that Matt Ward shat out. One book being messed up does not justify others following suit.

In debates like this i usually come down on the side of more flexibility, and this is no exception. I'm not a Tau player, but the one thing that would get me to play tau would be the option to field a large variety of alien races, or pick one race from a large selection. GW could use this as a way to greatly expand the number of alien races available to players, possibly introducing several defunct or fluff-only races that many players wopuld love to see. This in no way prevents Tau fans from playing pure (or nearly pure) Tau forces. And the Tau are expansionist after all, it is fluffy for them to accumulate more and more allies as time goes on. They are the leaders of their empire, but they wouldn't forever remain it's mainstay fighting force.

streamdragon wrote: But an army book about Tau should focus on Tau. They should be the "mainstay" of the army, so to speak. Bringing back Codex: Squats at the cost of Tau does a disservice to the Tau players out there.

Well, so you have heard that there currently is no "Codex: Tau", only a "Codex :Tau Empire".
Now what about my second argument:
Who do you expect to steer the Crisis Suits, the Broadsides, the Stealth Suits, the tanks and other skimmers then?

In alot of ways the Tau empire mimics the RL Roman empire, using aux units to plug holes in their military and to fufill functions that the Tau either are not suited, while providing the main strength ( suits, and vehicles ) for any major conflict, it just gives them more tools for the tool box ( so to speak ).
What I would like to see is these additional races truly fill niches and therefore shine in their performance, I.E. if kroot stay the main CC choice for the Tau, make them good at it , not supreme, and not useless, but GOOD, where other races need to assign their better CC units to deal with them, and the same goes for any other new race/units added, make them important members of the team.

But that being said they have to need the Tau forces to make everything come together, basically the Tau should be able to manage without the Aux races, but the Aux races should not be able to manage without the Tau, but when the two are combined then its magic time, everything functioning like a well oiled machine.

Now thats what I hope for....( crosses fingers )

Samus666 wrote:In debates like this i usually come down on the side of more flexibility, and this is no exception. I'm not a Tau player, but the one thing that would get me to play tau would be the option to field a large variety of alien races, or pick one race from a large selection. GW could use this as a way to greatly expand the number of alien races available to players, possibly introducing several defunct or fluff-only races that many players wopuld love to see.

Beyond a few units I would see this as a superficial move that wouldn't really satisfy the desire for diversification in the 40k universe. I wouldn't call offering the option of one unit in Codex: Tau Empire as a manner of greatly expanding the number of alien races available to players.

Zid wrote:Honestly, the buying HQ option = unlock this troop makes a LOT of sense, fluffwise, for Tau.

Think about it; Tau is just a conglomeration of a ton of different races allied to survive. So, if you wanna play an "allied" army, the best way would be to make basic troops, well, a troop. Meaning you can buy a Shaper and a Commander and have an allied suit/kroot army, or buy a demiurg/etheral and get an allied firewarrior/demi army. Thinking about it makes me all giddy; Tau will have soooo many different configurations! That means I won't always be facing crisis suit spam with a few firewarriors, which will be nice.

The problem with this though is that the Tau auxiliaries are ALWAYS lead by Tau commanders. Always. And it's Codex: TAU Empire, not Codex: "Mostly Tau but if you don't want to take Tau you can do that to, because we're making this a generic xenos codex so you can play all the other xenos forces that aren't big enough to get their own book."

Certainly, while the idea of being able to field pure Kroot or pure Demiruge forces is fun(read Awesome) , I'd rather they get their own books for that. for various reasons, the Kroot, Vespid, Demiurge and whoever else have all decided to pledge themselves to the greater good and become part of the Tau Empire. I guess I just want them to remember that it's Codex: Tau... and Friends, not Codex: Tau/Kroot/Demiurge/Vespid/whoever.

This. People wanting it to be both a full fledged Tau Codex and full fledged Kroot Codex, etc. simultaneously can shove it, the only thing that will give us is a cruddy book with underpowered options.

I have nothing against adding more non-Tau units to the book, in fact I welcome it. However, a single Tau unit should be mandatory, whether its because they retain the 1+ Firewarrior unit requirement (preferably not) or because all HQ choices are Tau units (this is my preference).

As for Codex Grey Knights without any actual Grey Knight units, while its possible, its not workable, unless you can live without any Heavy or Fast choices

Maybe one day we will see a
Codex: Tau Empire

and a

Codex: Xenos races ( featuring all kinds of alien goodness, with a heavy leaning towards Tau aux units.

Now that would open alot of model options, and make alot of people happy ( I would love to see a re-imagining of Zoats, exp. as a Tau Aux )

Maybe a forgeworld project

Soo'Vah'Cha wrote:In alot of ways the Tau empire mimics the RL Roman empire, using aux units to plug holes in their military and to fufill functions that the Tau either are not suited, while providing the main strength ( suits, and vehicles ) for any major conflict, it just gives them more tools for the tool box ( so to speak ).
What I would like to see is these additional races truly fill niches and therefore shine in their performance, I.E. if kroot stay the main CC choice for the Tau, make them good at it , not supreme, and not useless, but GOOD, where other races need to assign their better CC units to deal with them, and the same goes for any other new race/units added, make them important members of the team.

But that being said they have to need the Tau forces to make everything come together, basically the Tau should be able to manage without the Aux races, but the Aux races should not be able to manage without the Tau, but when the two are combined then its magic time, everything functioning like a well oiled machine.

Now thats what I hope for....( crosses fingers )

This. Over and over again. This.

I don't think it will be as bad as many of you seem to be fearing - and I know people don't exactly hold much optimism for any GW release - but either way, I am of the opinion, that like Soo', it should be a Tau Codex with Auxiliaries. I'm not entirely sure this is the way it will go, but I think it's probably the way it should go.
Ultimately, it should be a Tau Codex, I don't think they should need to unlock fire warriors as troops, but they should for their allies.
Ultimately, as Kroot[hawk] has pointed out, all the heavy-lifting and vehicles etc. would be Tau, as would hopefully the basic troops and choices and the auxiliaries would be just that, secondary choices.

It likely will be Codex: Tau Empire, in that it will be focussed around Tau with some others on the side. I believe the fears that Tau would be playing 'second fiddle' are incorrect IMHO, not least due to the [lack of] faith in GW.

I REALLY, STRONGLY believe that the heart and soul of the Codex will be Tau. However, I also believe that should the player really want to, they can make armies revolving around the auxiliaries. If there's a Kroot Shaper as a HQ, then good; lots of people want a Kroot mercenary Codex and GW can sell a variety of models. I think and hope that it will go in the direction of 'you make it what you want it to be', in that you could potentially have an army of entirely Kroot (and potentially do something like claim that a Pirahna is piloted by Kroot or is a dragon-type thing or whatever), but it could suffer from it game-wise and wouldn't be the strongest or main choice. But the choice is there.

I think the GK Codex is an indicator of this. Ultimately it is Codex: Grey Knights. But, should people want to - and a lot of people do - it can be something different. This alternative use (in this case Inquisitorial army or later maybe Kroot) is trickier, weaker and less supported, however it's an option.
I really believe it will be a case of 'you make it what you want it to be', and that there will be options to the Codex, but they won't be the heart and soul, the Tau will be.


Disclaimer: I recognise that this will get lost amongst the mist of opinions and GW hatred, but I'd like to think someone at least will see sense in this and my reasoning behind it.

I wouldnt be surprised if they have various different builds available, given that the DE codex came with four possible themed builds (Baron's Hellions, Haemonculus Coven, Wych Cult and Kabalite Kabal) all of whom seems viable. However like the GK codex, the Tau Codex will focus heavily on Tau and probably marginalize any Kroot or other auxillary based army, with them being possible, but not nearly as viable as a Pure Tau Force (and certainly not as good as a combination force). As long as it's not as bad as the Mono-god forces from the chaos Codexes it should do fine.

Be honest with yourself.

If you could have the tau army you wanted....and also field what is essentially terminators with thrunderhammers and stormshields in the form of space dwarves for counter assaulting.

Would you play anything else?

chaos0xomega wrote:
As for Codex Grey Knights without any actual Grey Knight units, while its possible, its not workable, unless you can live without any Heavy or Fast choices

They already have to live without any Fast choices, regardless of whether they play Grey Knights or Inquisition. One option is not a "choice".

What's the matter with there being a bunch of xeno races in the Tau codex? I doubt you'll have to use them. If you want to run a force of just Tau I doubt that option will be removed. More variety and more options is seldom a bad thing.

streamdragon wrote:

micahaphone wrote:Well, they're not overpowered, crazy-new-rule creating books like Mr. Ward's, but both the IG and 'nid books were well thought out and had many different playstyles and fun new units in them. I've heard a lot of complaining about the tyranid codex, but it is well made, with several good units and setups. I for one welcome this fellow. Bad luck on the last name, though.

Do you actually play Tyranids? By your post I'm guessing you don't. Codex Tyranids was a blatant money grab. It made popular but limited older options completely obsolete and nigh worthless (e.g.: Carnifexes and Lictors), while forcing expensive new models down our throats (e.g.: Trygons and Hive Guard). It robbed the army of any sort of flexibility, character or feel that the previous codex had done a fantastic job of creating, while presenting dull and idiotic new options that sounded like a nine year old had named them (Tyranofex, really?). It also eliminated the viability of numerous units (anything T4 with multiple wounds basically: warriors, lictors, ravenors), especially in the current mech / missle spam environment.

The Tyranid codex is a piece of crap through and through, from pathetic nerfing of existing units (160 pt Carnifexes?) as to make new models more desirable, to a disgusting homogenization of army builds (there's basically The Tervigon list), to units that make no in sense and are a hodgepodge of pointless rules (looking at you Venomthropes and Pyrovores).

Following on after Codex Imperial Guard and Codex Space Wolves, the Tyranid codex was, and remains, an utter failure. That the book somehow made it out to printing is an insult to Tyranid players. That many years later it remains the most unsupported book shows that GW just couldn't give two s about the Tyranid army. There is nothing "well made" about this book, and "several" good units is not enough. It shouldn't be a few gems among a pile of gak, it should be a full fledged, viable army book, just like all the others. But it's not. It's not anything close.

There are so many problems with this post I don't even know where to begin. Lictors were previously popular and viable (they were tied with chaos spawn as the worst unit in the game)? The army was versatile? How the hell did it eliminate the capability of warriors which are actually used now and have better statlines and more options, or raveners which saw a massive stat boost and who were virtually useless before? What exactly about the godzilla carnifex build was highly flexible? You think horde nids or fast nids were at all viable before? Do you play this game in even the most minimally competitive environment? Did you play tyranids at all? Every nid army varient aside from godzilla was completely unviable before and carnifex spam was boring, overpowered, and stupid. While we're talking about "selling new models" if that was there aim why is the pyrovore useless? Why is the venomthrope bad? Why isn't there a model for the tyrranofex or tervigon? How is the addition of nine new non special character units somehow reducing variety in the army? It's the biggest boost in one codex that the army has ever seen.

Do you have any perspective on that army or the 40k metagame what so ever? It's posts like this that remind me just how low the level of game design experience this community actually has, and just how much it thinks it has.

Soo, the mysterious Tabitha sez that they're already done playtesting? Anybody have any idea how long it takes to go from playtesting to publishing?

No BS 4 is sad, but expected. The tidbit about the crisis suits makes me think of these possibilities (I'm counting Tabitha's post as a rumor, not a wishlist):
- Higher toughness for suits
- "hit & run" style rule that allows suits to back out of combat and give their assaulter a face full of laser.
-very high strength, as they're large mechs, but no power weapons, to stick with Tau fluff.
-A failsafe detonator-ish deterrent/self-defense-only assault mechanism?

EDIT: odd, I swear there was just a post here from a "fresh-faced new user" named Tabitha that said that they were done playtesting, fire warriors were still BS 3, and that aside from specialty combat squads, like thunderwolves, or nob bikers, suits would be able to hold their own in combat.

Morathi's Darkest Sin wrote:If the rumour about Demiurg getting a HQ and troop choice is accurate, you can sign me up to the Greater Good, no doubts.

It'd be the final straw, I've been resisiting Tau for ages.

Definitely +1 on this. Doesn't matter to me if they have the stat line of a gretchin (although I will be disappointed and somewhat confused!), if the models are as good as they have the potential to be, this will be the first time ever I will have a pre-order down.

ShumaGorath, I think there was definitely a nugget of truth in that post you just machine-gunned of Steamdragon's. The fact was there were a large number of Carnifexes on the tabletop previously, everyone had them in their collection, and usually several. Then the new 'big kit' comes along which blows it out of the water, and the rules for the fex have a nosedive. It was quite obviously GW's plan, although as you point out they could have done it more successfully by releasing kits for the other new models in the codex!

Pacific wrote:

Morathi's Darkest Sin wrote:If the rumour about Demiurg getting a HQ and troop choice is accurate, you can sign me up to the Greater Good, no doubts.

It'd be the final straw, I've been resisiting Tau for ages.

Definitely +1 on this. Doesn't matter to me if they have the stat line of a gretchin (although I will be disappointed and somewhat confused!), if the models are as good as they have the potential to be, this will be the first time ever I will have a pre-order down.

ShumaGorath, I think there was definitely a nugget of truth in that post you just machine-gunned of Steamdragon's. The fact was there were a large number of Carnifexes on the tabletop previously, everyone had them in their collection, and usually several. Then the new 'big kit' comes along which blows it out of the water, and the rules for the fex have a nosedive. It was quite obviously GW's plan, although as you point out they could have done it more successfully by releasing kits for the other new models in the codex!

Maybe, but if model sales were their goal they would of made a model for the tervigon (the new superunit) and the pyrovore wouldn't be the new "Worst unit in the game". I'm much more inclined to think that the GW development team is bad at their jobs and the 40k community doesn't understand logic. Also, if that was his only point his post would have been 90% shorter and a lot less painful to read. He plainly never played tyranids before fifth. He never would have brought up lictors being made "less viable" if he did.

I mean, honestly, the trygon isn't even very good. It's just big and cool. It's expensive, easily killed, and difficult to utilize effectively. The reason the carnifex were so popular before is because 90 points got you one of the most offensively cost effective and durable shooting units in the games history. It was overpowered.

OnDebit wrote:what I would like more than anything else would be to have a choice of armour for my commander. I'd love to be able to use a commander with no suit, crisis suit, stealth suit or (in an ideal world) XV-9.

This. That, for me, would be awesome.

Kroothawk wrote:

streamdragon wrote:All the rumors really make this sound less like "Codex: Tau" and more like "Codex: Aliens with Tau dudes, really!"

Yeah, they should seriously think about renaming it "Codex: Tau Empire"

This. I seriously don't think the amalgamation of races that could appear in this codex is that "unfluffy". To me it makes a lot of sense.

Soo'Vah'Cha wrote:In alot of ways the Tau empire mimics the RL Roman empire, using aux units to plug holes in their military and to fufill functions that the Tau either are not suited, while providing the main strength ( suits, and vehicles ) for any major conflict, it just gives them more tools for the tool box ( so to speak ).
What I would like to see is these additional races truly fill niches and therefore shine in their performance, I.E. if kroot stay the main CC choice for the Tau, make them good at it , not supreme, and not useless, but GOOD, where other races need to assign their better CC units to deal with them, and the same goes for any other new race/units added, make them important members of the team.

But that being said they have to need the Tau forces to make everything come together, basically the Tau should be able to manage without the Aux races, but the Aux races should not be able to manage without the Tau, but when the two are combined then its magic time, everything functioning like a well oiled machine.

Now thats what I hope for....( crosses fingers )

This, IMO, would be the best way to do it. Make the Auxiliary races pretty good at one thing, but really freaking sucky at another thing, so players need to strike a balance between them to get a good army to take to tournaments, etc.

Suits all across the board should be at BS4, T5, W2, IMO.

Is there a way to delete comments on dakka dakka? Because I swear I saw a post by someone named Tabitha.

Backfire wrote:

Shep wrote:
I find the believability scale on all of these rumors to be very high. Obliterator/jokearo style weapons systems on crisis suits is pretty damn elegant, crisis suit troops with a sacrifice seem just fine to me, the distribution of drones seems very cool, and another smart way to streamline unit upgrades.

I don't believe these rumours at all. It would make Crisis suits pointless to model. I also think that Demiurgs are just wishful thinking by the people who want to see Squats back.

Personally, I would quit Tau if the part about Crisis suits is true. Most fun part of playing Tau is the configurability, and generic "flying Obliterators" would totally destroy that. GW has taken HUGE criticism in the past whenever they have attempted to "streamline" the army like that, surely even they won't make that mistake yet again?

'

This fully assumes Crisis Suits will look the same!

micahaphone wrote:Is there a way to delete comments on dakka dakka? Because I swear I saw a post by someone named Tabitha.

Aside from this one?

Tabitha wrote:While I won’t comment on these rumors validity, or lack there of, I will say a few things about the Tau in regards to this: If their rules stay even close to what they are now in testing, and since that’s nearly over I think they will, then they will be an incredibly versatile army. Their new allies, along with the expansion of the roles and units of current allies really give the tau a lot. The suits are also currently strong against pretty much everything except quick melee juggs like thunder wolf / noob biker squads and pretty freaking deadly almost to the point of being OP.

Though no, Fire warriors are not going BS 4.

Why are people jumping to the conclusion that Tau are being written out of their own book?

You can still take a pure Tau army. It's done by doing the exact thing you're complaining about - don't take Demiurg or Kroot. Take an Ethereal and Crisis Commander. Bam, pure Tau army, Crisis Suits and Firewarriors as troops.

It's unlikely the Demiurg and Kroot will only be useable after being unlocked as troops, like putting them in elite (Demiurg) and fast attack (Kroot). If this happens, you can take your pure Tau army with lots of suits and Firewarriors, and still have small amounts of auxillery.

Why complain that there's an option you don't want when you don't have to use it at all? just don't take those HQs. If someone else wants to field a mainly Demiurg list by taking a Demiurg HQ, how does that hurt your enjoyment of the game?

I think the fear isn't that they won't be possible in the new book but that they won't be the competitive build. It would be a shame for Codex: Tau Empire to come out and have it represented on the competitive scene by nothing but Kroot and Demiurg. It won't affect me as I'll play what I want but everyone wants their codex to show well in the competitive scene and if Tau ended up being inferior to their allies it would be a shame.

As a Kroot player, I only hope the ethereals let us start eating our kills again.

I'm so sick of earth caste engineered protein bird seed.

I just got the impression that people didn't want it because it didn't represent a Tau force, which can absolutely still be done even if those rumours are true.

Holy win if it's true.

Tau with Farsight Bombs will cry in joy.

I'd be able to take 5 suits per team stack Shield Drones and have them all count as troops.

One Skyray, One maxed team of Broadsides BAM!

Hope these are even slightly true! Would be a much needed boost to Tau... Not many of us left lol... only 5 competed at Adepticon

:C

-Loki- wrote:I just got the impression that people didn't want it because it didn't represent a Tau force, which can absolutely still be done even if those rumours are true.

I'm sure there are some people thinking that way which honestly would be a little odd. However I think most are afraid of seeing iconic Tau units being less viable than non-Tau units. Think along the lines of the new IG codex making them a Veteran army and seeing that from the perspective of a person who played and loved original IG that was all about heavy tanks and droves of cannon fodder. While the Tau example would be more extreme, it is the same sort of thing.

Has anyone heard If human auxiliary will be in the book. Also what is to be come of the special characters?

TheCadianParatrooper wrote:Has anyone heard If human auxiliary will be in the book.

Only thing all the rumours have agreed on is that Human auxiliares will NOT be in the book. Which I think makes great deal of sense, what role are bunch of guardsmen going to play in a Tau army?

Though, I guess they would be fun in annoying Imperial players...

I heard there's going to be:
A 'Kraken' Gunship that is kitted out with lots of Railguns etc.
Elite fire warriors (attached to Ethereal)
New rules for other things there already
Lower points on a few things
It is virtually impossible to name them all without taking all night

I think it's great that taking a specific HQ unlocks the troop choices: it's different and goes against the grain, making Tau its own army. I'm not a Tau fan (hate the crisis suits, hate the helmets and shoulderpads of Fire Warriors), but if you could make an army that is so wildly different from everything else, it's golden. Sure, there will be the "tournament" build for them, but you Tau players will have so many new army build options. If these rumors are true (and I have no problem believing them until/unless they are disproven) I think you guys will have a great new codex. Looking forward to seeing what else comes out.

BeefCakeSoup wrote:Holy win if it's true.

Tau with Farsight Bombs will cry in joy.

I'd be able to take 5 suits per team stack Shield Drones and have them all count as troops. :C

not really. the farsight bomb depends on a large unit of CHEAP crisis suits; if you take a look, the suits that are fielded in the typical bomb are the CHEAPEST or 2nd cheapest configuration (blacksun filter, twin-linked flamers). the rumors above would almost double the price of each suit. while they'd obviously be more effective with more wounds and better weapons while scoring, the traditional bomb would almost double in price and no longer fit in plenty of armies.

SonicPara wrote:I think the fear isn't that they won't be possible in the new book but that they won't be the competitive build. It would be a shame for Codex: Tau Empire to come out and have it represented on the competitive scene by nothing but Kroot and Demiurg. It won't affect me as I'll play what I want but everyone wants their codex to show well in the competitive scene and if Tau ended up being inferior to their allies it would be a shame.

But to be fair, all fluff has pointed towards the Tau being inferior without their allies.

The only exception to this rule is the Farsight Enclave, but they're really only that way from decades of constant warfare against Orks.

That toughens up anyone

guyperson5 wrote:I heard there's going to be:
A 'Kraken' Gunship that is kitted out with lots of Railguns etc.

I want this just so I can grow out a beard and yell 'Release the Kraken!' during deployment.

the Tau use auxiliaries in their armies, from many different races that have joined the Empire. that is awesome, and the representation of it in the game is great.

something that I'm afraid of is, for each new unit in the codex that is an alien auxiliary, that's one less new pure Tau toy. I guess I just hope that they maintain Firewarriors and Commanders at 1+ to represent the fact that this is a Tau army. I mean, Kroot are already a troops choice and always have been, so changing that around and making the purchase of a shaper HQ necessary to field them that way would be backwards wouldn't it?

Regarding Human Auxiliaries, even if they don't make the book, could easily do counts as Fire Warriors.

guyperson5 wrote:I heard there's going to be:
A 'Kraken' Gunship that is kitted out with lots of Railguns etc.
Elite fire warriors (attached to Ethereal)
New rules for other things there already
Lower points on a few things
It is virtually impossible to name them all without taking all night

So why don't you take more than 5 minutes to name anything substantial? The only thing here that wasn't common sense or already in the existing codex is the Kraken you're mentioning.

micahaphone wrote:Soo, the mysterious Tabitha sez that they're already done playtesting? Anybody have any idea how long it takes to go from playtesting to publishing?

No BS 4 is sad, but expected. The tidbit about the crisis suits makes me think of these possibilities (I'm counting Tabitha's post as a rumor, not a wishlist):
- Higher toughness for suits
- "hit & run" style rule that allows suits to back out of combat and give their assaulter a face full of laser.
-very high strength, as they're large mechs, but no power weapons, to stick with Tau fluff.
-A failsafe detonator-ish deterrent/self-defense-only assault mechanism?

EDIT: odd, I swear there was just a post here from a "fresh-faced new user" named Tabitha that said that they were done playtesting, fire warriors were still BS 3, and that aside from specialty combat squads, like thunderwolves, or nob bikers, suits would be able to hold their own in combat.

Sorry, I will add a bit of clarity.

I did not mean that suits can kill things in melee. While they are tougher, most melee units can still tarpit and eventually kill them if the Tau player lets them. What I meant was that the suits are mobile enough and tough enough that they can usually out maneuver most melee units / blow up their transport and kite them to death, while easily shrugging off any light fire from the unit. Things like Nob bikers or thunderwolf calv are fast enough to catch them and tough enough that they likely will not be worn down from the fire coming from the suits.

They still are rubbish in melee against good melee troops, but in the hands of a capable tau player will rarely actually engage in melee, and are really difficult to kill at a range.

warboss wrote:

BeefCakeSoup wrote:Holy win if it's true.

Tau with Farsight Bombs will cry in joy.

I'd be able to take 5 suits per team stack Shield Drones and have them all count as troops. :C

not really. the farsight bomb depends on a large unit of CHEAP crisis suits; if you take a look, the suits that are fielded in the typical bomb are the CHEAPEST or 2nd cheapest configuration (blacksun filter, twin-linked flamers). the rumors above would almost double the price of each suit. while they'd obviously be more effective with more wounds and better weapons while scoring, the traditional bomb would almost double in price and no longer fit in plenty of armies.

No way dude.

Best part of the bomb is the shas'vre having better gear options and shield drones.

If they are "upgrading" suits to Shas'Vre levels +1 wound than their isn't a Farsight bomber who isn't going to be rocking faces.

Weakest part of my bomb was always the standard teams of crisis suits and not having a viable vehicle like the proposed Skyray. If I had to drop 6 suits, add a decked out team of Broadsides and a Skyray I'd do it in a heartbeat. My tactical oiptions would expand big time!

I understand a generic bomber is losing his main suit spam, but a good bomber realizes that the best part of the bomb is using the 7 Shas'Vre and Farsight with tons of shield drones. Adding one wound to each model than bring a second HQ (Shas'O) I think you will have a more viable bomb easily.

The rumour about FWs still being BS3 means that they're getting a points decrease and/or a Pulse Rifle which you can move or fire more than 12" with, that's the only way they can make FWs better without increasing their BS, and compared to other units their current cost is far from justified.

Crisis Suit rumours are fine by me as long as they're T5, i'm not paying 60pts per model to have 1 Long Fang unit wipe them out in 1 shooting phase; they are not vehicles.

Skyray sounds okay, 1 missile per phase is a bit crap, but you can't have everything (unless your codex is written by Ward).

HQs affecting Troops is a bit wierd, in order to take FWs i'd need an Ethereal? If that doesn't warrant a points reduction on FWs purely for forcing you to have an Ethereal-shaped deadweight in your army then I don't know what will, but this guy better have some psychic defence/powers and general survivability (unlike the wet paper bag he is now), otherwise Fire Warriors are gunna be off the menu for most lists.

I would love to know more about Broadsides, Pathfinders, Devilfish and Hammerheads though, namely whether broadsides are going to get plastic railguns that don't require you to basically build your broadside a wall to lean against and a stool to sit on when he's built in order to stop him toppling over.

Pathfinders are pretty fine already, Devilfish need to become cheaper, hammerheads are fine, but this is GW, and they can't resist taking a good unit and whacking it to nerfsville because they can.

Ethereal’s are still wet paper bags in combat BUT they are now a lot more useful. Think of the Ethereal like a Really Good Buff from a video game. It’s easily dispelled (by killing it) but until it dies it can (depending on a few things) make any number of various units better. It’s sort of like a guard CCS guy with orders, but with more flexibility. So while Ethereal’s wont be killing things, they will be making people who do kill things do it a lot better.

Fire warriors are still BS 3 yes, but there are ways to make that less sucky then it sounds. And considering your shooting a S5 rifle it really isn’t that bad anyway.

Also this: Some special characters let you take units from other FOC slots as troops. This applies mostly to elites/fast attack options which are basically infantry anyway. But you still have fire warriors and other troop options as normal.

So think of it like this: You take special alien guy Biff. Special alien guy Biffs normal alien guys are an elite option that wears heavy armor and doesn’t suck in melee. But you want to spend your elite slots on flowers. So with special alien guy biff, you can take his guys as troops. BUT if you don’t take special alien guy Biff then you can always take his guys as elites.


I wish I had more to share with all of you guys, but most of the stuff I heard about the Tau (a race I that I dislike almost everything about; Kroot however are awesome) came up in conversation whilst I was chatting with one of my friends across the pond about Sisters, an army I am actually interested in. When I speak with him again I will ask more about them, though to be honest I don’t really know anyone who really collects tau, nor do I collect tau myself, so I am not really sure what to ask.

Well---what don't you share what you know about Sisters then ?

Like;

Is Phil Kelly writing the book?
Are acts of Faith still in?


Thanks any info (including the Tau info you have shared).

There are only two things I'm interested in tabitha.

Exactly what is going to make the new ethereals worth taking

and

Is the tau heavy support still clogged with those sniper drone teams.

To be fair Tabitha, saying Ethereal's are now (much) more useful it like making a broken leg less painful; it can't exactly get worse!

Thanks for the information though, what you're saying sounds about right and pretty much exactly spot on with what I was expecting and how I feel it should be (particularly BS3 - negated by Markerlights too). I understand you're in a tight spot in regards to your limited knowledge of Tau, but all information is useful in one form or another and you definitely appear a reliable source so thanks for whatever disclosure you provide.

I would imagine that the most pressing question for everyone is... 'when'?

Cheers Tabitha!

This "Kraken" gunship, does it mean that Tau will get an overpowered flyer?

An overpowered flyer? The only overpowered Flyer I know is the Vendetta and that's mainly just it's points cost.
I can't imagine a Kraken being that good (providing it does exist), as there are plenty of other, tougher and likely cheaper, sources of railguns...

Well---what don't you share what you know about Sisters then ?

Like;

Is Phil Kelly writing the book?
Are acts of Faith still in?

Uh, I don’t really want to steal the thread and stuff it full of sisters info! But I don’t know (or care) who is writing the book. To me most GW authors are really hit or miss. For instances I love the IG codex, but hate/love ‘nids (I think the rules pidgin hole people into a couple of lists, but since I don’t play them, I like that I generally know what to expect and can plan for it). But the same guy wrote those!

Acts of Faith are still in, but different from their current form pretty drastically.

There are only two things I'm interested in tabitha.

Exactly what is going to make the new ethereals worth taking

and

Is the tau heavy support still clogged with those sniper drone teams.

I was just told they buff units in a fashion similar to IG commanders, but I didn’t ask more in-depth stuff because I just don’t care. Stop asking me in depth questions! It makes me look less mysterious and knowing when, uh, I don’t know. I hope I am not being too ambugious.

About the Heavy support stuff, I don’t know. But I will try and remember that question and ask it in the future.




As for when, uh, I believe by this time next year they will be out or fixing to come out. From what I understand they are 3rd in line, with Necrons next, sisters after that, and then Tau. But I don’t have exact dates and could be wrong, so please don’t take that as an exact time. I know A LOT of tau stuff has been done with for basically ever. Like more then a year. At least on the model front. I don’t know if that stuff was just not released and wont be for some crazy reason, or is getting redone, but a lot of Tau stuff for the tau has been good to go, from what I understand.

Dammit GW, stop the power armor, non-power armor- power armor release schedule and give us the greater good!

micahaphone wrote:Dammit GW, stop the power armor, non-power armor- power armor release schedule and give us the greater good!

Considering Daemonhunters and Witchhunters had their last books (before the current GK book anyway) in 2003, I think it's a reasonable wait

That and SoB and Necrons are pretty much power armour and arguably need a Codex more...

Thanks for the info and answering questions though Tabitha!

micahaphone wrote:Dammit GW, stop the power armor, non-power armor- power armor release schedule and give us the greater good!

Apart from Necrons are basically Power armour equivalent and Sisters are power armoured.

The Tau look nice but tend to fail.
It would be nice to see some armies that are not Power armoured being played a little more often truth be told. Other than Dark Eldar, getting bored...

alphaomega wrote:

micahaphone wrote:Dammit GW, stop the power armor, non-power armor- power armor release schedule and give us the greater good!

Apart from Necrons are basically Power armour equivalent and Sisters are power armoured.

The Tau look nice but tend to fail.
It would be nice to see some armies that are not Power armoured being played a little more often truth be told. Other than Dark Eldar, getting bored...

what about Orks?

Or Chaos Daemons?

Brother SRM wrote:

micahaphone wrote:Dammit GW, stop the power armor, non-power armor- power armor release schedule and give us the greater good!

Considering Daemonhunters and Witchhunters had their last books (before the current GK book anyway) in 2003, I think it's a reasonable wait

It isn't right to say Tau should wait longer because Necrons have already been waiting. No-one should have to wait so long for their army book to be updated.

All books should be rewritten within two years of an edition change. No new edition should be released to invalidate books until at least two years after the last one has been published.

Dammit GW, stop the power armor, non-power armor- power armor release schedule and give us the greater good!

The Greater Good!


Also since this is the news and rumors thread, I have heard that in fact Tau are next or after sisters and that necrons have been pushed back. however this is just a rumor and probably wishfull thinking (by me!)


And If tau get a kraken type gunship with three rail guns or so, that's a flyer and If the rumor that rail guns go in a straight line and hit vehicles that are in the way then that sounds really over powered against all mech!

Fire warriors are still BS 3 yes, but there are ways to make that less sucky then it sounds. And considering your shooting a S5 rifle it really isn’t that bad anyway.

It IS bad, you know there's something wrong when you've played Tau for nigh on 3 years and your Fire Warriors have killed more in CC than they have with shooting; the abundance of cover all but negates the AP and gives pretty-much everything that looks at it a 4+ cover save.

Sure, you can use pathfinders, but you have to have at least 3 lights on it just to remove cover, and another one or two to augment shooting for a single fire warrior unit. You shouldn't have to take an expensive support unit so that you can allow your other units to do the jobs they're supposed to do to start with; in a company, would you hire someone if you had to also hire a personal trainer to get him to do it all?

There's a good reason why people prefer kroot over FWs to fill their troops.

I do enjoy Fire Warriors, but I do believe they need something to help hit the enemy a bit harder. Avatar 720 is on the right track.

Wow, not liking the rumors on the first page at all. 60 point suits? Crazy. Obliterator suits? Blah, takes the fun out of designing your teams. GW wants you to have more, not less, and 300 point troop choices are just not a great idea. 2+ invulnerable? Too good IMHO.

FW really don't need BS 4. Str 5 BS 3 is almost exactly the same performance as Str 4, BS 4, and better against vehicles.

TheTrueProtoman wrote: I do enjoy Fire Warriors, but I do believe they need something to help hit the enemy a bit harder. Avatar 720 is on the right track.

bs4 would only decrease the synergy the army relies on.

All firewarriors need are cheaper and more plentiful ways to get markerlights into the army.

AND/OR

make their guns have multiple profiles like

H1 30" // A2 18" // A3 12"

kestral wrote:FW really don't need BS 4. Str 5 BS 3 is almost exactly the same performance as Str 4, BS 4, and better against vehicles.

Your comparison is incomplete as any shooting unit is inherently exposed after they get their shots off. Fire Warriors have T3 and Ld7 giving them absolutely no staying power and therefore are almost certain to die after they get their one turn of shooting off.

Fire Warriors need BS4 if their statline otherwise remains the same as they are so fragile that they must kill every thing that they shoot at in one phase of shooting, otherwise they are as good as dead.

I don't think an increase to their BS is what they need. Perhaps more options to focus their fire, changing of how their weapons work or some other rule/ more markerlights.

Hell, I'd be happy with cheap markerlight drones. Then a FW team would be able to augment their guns somewhat.

I think it would be more useful if simply everyone could tap into a markerlight. Ex; if you hit a unit of Boyz in a Kustom Forcefield with three markerlights, you can then designate what those markerlights do, say one to remove cover and two to increase BS, then any unit that shoots that unit of Boyz afterwards can claim all of the affects that the markerlights have given.

I know this is wishlisting but it would make more sense in my opinion than increasing the baes bs of any of the units.

That kraken sounds kind of interesting, though if it goes on the flyer base it will actually make the rumoured railgun rules worse from it, as it would always draw a straight line into the tank and then into the ground behind it instead of all the way across the board like a tank at table hieght would.

Clang wrote:I don't have a problem with extra sub-races being brought in, so long as the HQ all remain Tau - the Tau fluff does a reasonable job of justifying the 'we hire mercenaries for any specialist combat roles we can't do so well ourselves' concept. Plus it really amps up the modelling possibilities. (And Demiurgs will make all the Squat fans semi-happy )

An all battle suit army? - yay!

I agree with the above. and not to mention a small point game that your forced to take 2 HQs so that you have versatility to your army.... However I could see that if you used a certain point value say 500+ (just throwing a number out there) that you have to take a HQ of that type. but again The Tau are too proud to ever consider one of these races as equals to them.

Not to mention I am hoping to see some fluff in the new codex regarding how useless Vespid were so they Genocided the whole freaking race.

Sounds like a late april fools joke. Most of this stuff sounds like it would cause more harm than good. Except the sheild gen 2+ shroud thing. Tau should be the Next Xeno to get updated...by that I mean after Necrons.

I think it should go something like this.

Necrons
Witch Hunters
Eldar
Dark Angels
Tau
Daemon Hunters
Chaos Daemons
NEW MARINE ARMY! Either Traitor Guard or a Traitor Marine Army OR. One of the Almost Extinct Marines like Crimson Fists or something like that.

6th Edition
Orks and Space Marines out same time
New Battleset - Battle for --------- Which Consists of Dark Eldar Vs I.G

TheTrueProtoman wrote:

make their guns have multiple profiles like

H1 30" // A2 18" // A3 12"

OH I like this idea too

How about the option of playing a Tau Manta as a heavy choice? Titan Killer Cannons, 16 Burst cannons, Can Carry 4 Ships. Something like 6 Crisis suits and up to 6 squads of Troops.

Just like its FW Apocolypes profile. I think that would make Tau more playable at ard boys.

Field Gen wrote:I think it should go something like this.
Necrons
Witch Hunters
Eldar
Dark Angels
Tau
Daemon Hunters
Chaos Daemons
NEW MARINE ARMY! Either Traitor Guard or a Traitor Marine Army OR. One of the Almost Extinct Marines like Crimson Fists or something like that.

Tau after Dark Angels? I HAVE a Dark Angels army and I don't like that idea. Also why Daemon Hunters? Grey Knights have their codex and that won't change for 5 years at the barest minimum.

Field Gen wrote:I think it should go something like this.

Necrons
Witch Hunters
Eldar
Dark Angels
Tau
Daemon Hunters
Chaos Daemons
NEW MARINE ARMY! Either Traitor Guard or a Traitor Marine Army OR. One of the Almost Extinct Marines like Crimson Fists or something like that.

Really? You want to release three competitive armies before Tau which are the 2nd worst (Necrons are worst and are thankfully getting their book next) codex by far? What is the deal with that? Is everyone still afraid of the railgun or something?

Well yes but I think if it does go something like that. Since they are doing space marine/ Xeno combo switch off. They should go by what ones have been waiting the longest.

Tau have a nice colorful codex. Necrons book is still that black...thing. Also isn't Grey Knights and Daemon Hunters two separate things?

Anyway, I love tau but in all fairness there are some things that have been waiting a little longer. Sure tau suck noodles...mostly..still fun to play and needs work but they should wait a little bit to make sure to do a really good job on them.

Also what if some reason that GW decides to make 6th edition come out a little early? They got up to the next four codex from now and than. Bam. A codex that might had been really good for 5th edition rules is now hurting because of rule changes that hurt some of the stuff they were good at.

So than they drop SM, Ork and Tau codex that is up to the 6th editions rules and thus are not effected by the change because their refresh will reflect what the new rules are.

I am moving this thread to 40K General Discussion. We are out of the News timeframe now.

I don't mind that much if Fire Warriors remain BS 3, if they just make markerlights easier to use. But what Tau sorely needs is a BS 4 Battlesuit, they're elites for Greater Good's sake!

Field Gen wrote: Also isn't Grey Knights and Daemon Hunters two separate things?

Officially, yes, they are. In practice it's like Codex: Tau becoming Codex: Tau Empires. Just a name change as the focus is on Grey Knights.

ZeroSamurai wrote:I don't mind that much if Fire Warriors remain BS 3, if they just make markerlights easier to use. But what Tau sorely needs is a BS 4 Battlesuit, they're elites for Greater Good's sake!

Yes, it's quite ironic that the most shooty (supposedly) army in the game has elites with below average BS.

kestral wrote:GW wants you to have more, not less, and 300 point troop choices are just not a great idea.

Mmm, yeah, tell that to power blob IG players.

Field Gen wrote:
I think it should go something like this.

Necrons
Witch Hunters
Eldar
Dark Angels
Tau
Daemon Hunters*
Chaos Daemons

*See Codex: Grey Knights.

However,

Field Gen wrote:NEW MARINE ARMY! Either Traitor Guard or a Traitor Marine Army OR. One of the Almost Extinct Marines like Crimson Fists or something like that.

I like the sound of this.

Field Gen wrote:How about the option of playing a Tau Manta as a heavy choice? Titan Killer Cannons, 16 Burst cannons, Can Carry 4 Ships. Something like 6 Crisis suits and up to 6 squads of Troops.

Just like its FW Apocolypes profile. I think that would make Tau more playable at ard boys.

Ok, you just ruined my illusion of you. This. Is. A. Stupid. Idea. Why would anyone, apart from Bill Gates' kid, want a US$1500+ model for a Heavy Support selection? Not to mention that the model would cover the half of the board. Have you seen the scale picture of the guy holding it?

ZeroSamurai wrote:I don't mind that much if Fire Warriors remain BS 3, if they just make markerlights easier to use. But what Tau sorely needs is a BS 4 Battlesuit, they're elites for Greater Good's sake!

This. Then still be able to purchase the +1 to BS upgrade (the name escapes me for now).

Anyways, OT, IMO Markerlights shouldn't be removed after one use, maybe instead at the end of the Shooting Phase? That is my $0.02

Kilkrazy wrote:

ZeroSamurai wrote:I don't mind that much if Fire Warriors remain BS 3, if they just make markerlights easier to use. But what Tau sorely needs is a BS 4 Battlesuit, they're elites for Greater Good's sake!

Yes, it's quite ironic that the most shooty (supposedly) army in the game has elites with below average BS.

Well maybe if the Tau developed depth perception and glasses, they'd be BS4!

Man, if the rumor of Crisis troops as troops is correct... (and they don't cost extra...)

6 units of 5 firestorm crisis suits would be amazing! 1500 points, and you get 60 MP shots and 90 BC shots... *SHREEDD!!!!*

Kanluwen wrote: Well maybe if the Tau developed depth perception and glasses, they'd be BS4!

This comment really angers me, because its what everyone says when Tau FW BS 3 is brought up....I am sorry but thats what we have the best technological equipment....to make up for that......


Rant over

Brother SRM wrote:

guyperson5 wrote:I heard there's going to be:
A 'Kraken' Gunship that is kitted out with lots of Railguns etc.
Elite fire warriors (attached to Ethereal)
New rules for other things there already
Lower points on a few things
It is virtually impossible to name them all without taking all night

So why don't you take more than 5 minutes to name anything substantial? The only thing here that wasn't common sense or already in the existing codex is the Kraken you're mentioning.

OK then, Brother SRM
HQ
15 point cost reduction to both Shas'El and Shas'O, however Shas 'O can take XV-9 or XV 25 armor at an increased cost.

Ethereal
Priced the same
New rule " Blind to the Warp" Basically Ethereal and any unit within 18" of the Ethereal are immune to psychic effects that are not damaging attacks . (So Bolt of Change or Destructor would still affect the Tau units, but Doom, or Lash of Torment would not)
Can also be upgraded to take an envoy:

Fire Caste Envoy: basically a team of 12 Firewarriors with BS4 and advanced pulse rifles that are 24" assault 2 pinning

Earth Caste Envoy: Ethereal is followed by a retinue of 4 mining drones. The mining drones can be detached and deployed to create an area of difficult terrain. Treat this as a ordinance barrage attack for the purposes of determining where it hits in a 18" range, roll to scatter. The effect causes no real damage as the drone uses a seismic destabilization device to cause a ground disturbance that is difficult terrain for troops and dangerous terrain for vehicles. (but not skimmers)

Water Caste Envoy: The ethereal is followed by 2 Water Caste ambassadors. Each time an enemy has a chance to roll for a reserve coming in on a deep strike or outflank you can declare you are using th water caste's "passive resistance" ability. You roll a dice and your opponent rolls a dice for each enemy reserve coming in via either deep strike or outflanking. For each roll off you win, you may place that unit. You may place deep striking units anywhere on the table but must be at least 6" away from any table edge. For outflankers you choose what side they come in on. You must have at least one water caste ambassador alive to use this ability.

Air Caste Envoy: The ethereal is followed by a command and control drone. The drone is attached to Advanced air caste aerospace computer relay satellites. While the drone is alive, any tank in the Tau army equipped with a command and control node relay can make one shooting attack against deep strikers. Each unit may only be targeted once and each tank can only target one deep striking unit.

Elites
Crisis and stealth suits are ten points cheaper
weapon systems prices remain the same
Marker drone cost reduced to 20 pts.
A team leader of XV-8s can be upgraded to take iridium armor, or a SMS, or a marker light.

Stealth suits use the stealth universal special rule as well as night fighting rules to be spotted.

There is also a new tau auxillary race that is some kind of centaur thing that no one will use.

Troops
Fire warriors cost the same but have the option that if NOT mounted in a devilfish they may take a unit of kroot hounds (max 5) as an attachment. The unit may not include any drones if it includes kroot hounds. If the Firewarriors lose combat and flee check to see if there are any remaining kroot hounds. If there are still kroot hounds present in the unit, the firewarriors will still flee, but the Kroot hounds will stay and fight, gaining the fearless special rule, preventing the firewarriors from being run down.

Kroot points cost remains unchanged. Units of kroot including krootox may not infiltrate, but may still outflank. Krootox now count as monstrous creatures. Their profile stays the same. A kroot shaper cost is increased to 30 pts, however he grants one of the following to the kroot he is assigned to : Feel No Pain, Furious Charge, or Preferred Enemy.

New Troop unit - XV-6 Alert
18 points per model, max 8 in a squad
same stats as a stealth suit except only 1 attack and I 2
Jet Pack infantry
+4 save
has 2 hard points that must be filled by
(2 weapons mounted will count as 1 twin linked weapon)

Advanced Pulse Rifle S 5 AP 5 24" range assault 2 pinning
Flamer
Advanced boosters ( adds + 1D6" to any move using the jet pack.When choosing to run in the shooting phase roll 3D6 and choose the highest)
Iridium Armor granting +3 armor save (cannot be taken with advanced boosters)
Drone Controller
Shield Generator

Devilfish reduced to 50 points
Disruption pod increased to 15 points
Devilfish can be equipped with atmospheric thrusters for 15 points which will allow them to Deep strike. When Deep striking with atmospheric thrusters roll only 1D6 when scattering.

Fast Attack
Piranha squadrons point cost reduced to 35 points per model
can take 2 networked markerlights instead of 2 gun drones for 30 points
Wording on flechette dischargers fixed so that each assaulter directing attacks against the piranha squadron takes wounds from each flechette discharger in the unit.
Can take atmospheric thrusters (see above)

Gun Drones reduced in cost to 8 points per model

Pathfinders the same but do not have to take a devil fish.

Vespid now have the hit and run rule, otherwise remain unchanged

XV-9 Hazard suits 60 points per model otherwise see IAA:2 for more details

Heavy Support
Broadsides now cost 55 pts per model, otherwise remain unchanged


Sniper Drone Teams still 0-1 but can take 3 as part of a single FOC slot. Points cost reduced to 40 per team.

Hammerhead base cost reduced to 60 points. Railgun reduced in cost to 40 points, Ion Cannon remains unchanged. New options being twin-linked fusion cannon, twin-linked plasma cannon, or twin-linked long barreled burst cannon.
Can be equipped with atmospheric thrusters or command and control node relay.

Skyray base cost reduced to 90 points.
There are new seeker ammo load outs for the skyray. Each skyray may only equip 1 type of seeker loadout

New seeker ammo load outs: Anti-Air Seekers. Causes all deep strikers during an enemy's turn to suffer a dangerous terrain test on the turn they arrive. 20 pts

Choking Smoke: these seekers are launched the same way a normal seeker is, but you target an area of ground, roll to see if you hit as normal for seeker missiles, if missed rolled 2D6 and scatter. The round creates an area of choking smoke the size of the large blast template that lasts until the beginning of the next Tau turn. The smoke blocks LOS and any non-vehicle unit trying to move through it treats it as difficult terrain. Any infantry unit starting their turn or moving through the smoke reduces their WS and I to 1 for the rest of their turn. 40 points

Marker Gel
These seekers explode into a gout of electro-reactive gel that adheres to any surface and is full of nanomachines that relay information to Tau targeting computers. For the rest of the game any Tau unit shooting at a unit that has been marker gel'd is treated as having BS 5. 25 points

Normal Seeker ammo 15 points

Can be equipped with atmoshperic thrusters. May only take a command and control node relay if equipped with a standard seeker missile rack.


New Heavy Support Choice
Kraken heavy skimmer tank
220 points
Equipped with target lock, advanced targeting array (BS 5) a hull mounted Heavy Rail Cannon and two turret mounted ion cannons. The Kraken may also take 2 twin-linked smart missile systems, or 4 gun drones.
Rail Cannon S 10 AP 1 72" Lance
When the rail cannon fires trace a line from its barrel to 72" or the end of the table, whichever is shorter. Roll to hit the first target in that line, if that target is a non vehicle unit, or a vehicle that the rail cannon has had a penetrating shot on, roll to hit the next target in line. Do this until the railcannon shot fails to penetrate a vehicle or there are no units left in the line. If the shot fails to hit a vehicle move on to the next one, the shot has not stopped, it just miraculously missed that particular target.
Cannot take atmospheric thrusters

Lots of new wargear stuff. There is a ruling in the book on drones attached to squads:

"Any drone under the influence of a drone controller does not count for the purposes of taking a morale test due to unit losses. Also drones are automatically destroyed when a vehicle is destroyed. Drones do not count as seperate from the vehicle they are mounted on unless they detach.(so drones do not give extra KP unless you decide to detach them) Drones that are attached to a unit always have the same unit type and armor save/ toughness as the unit they are attached too."

Well I am sure that this should get you all excited about the new codex!!!!!!

Wow. If the above post is true, looks like Tau are going to replace the SW as the most over-powered codex ever.

They'll do well in Planetsrike.

EDIT: Double post removed.

That all sounded pretty plausible for early rumours until you detailed the Kraken, and not only for the ridiculous hit everything in a 72" line part. 72" S10 AP1 Lance weapon? Honestly, I can't see it happening.

Wow, that's an interesting post Guyperson! Can I ask if you saw any mention of Demiurg (unless it's the 'centaur like creatures that no one will use'?)

Vladamyr wrote:

Kanluwen wrote: Well maybe if the Tau developed depth perception and glasses, they'd be BS4!

This comment really angers me, because its what everyone says when Tau FW BS 3 is brought up....I am sorry but thats what we have the best technological equipment....to make up for that......


Rant over

And that puts you on par with a normal Guardsman in terms of shooting. Yes, Veterans have higher--but that's because they've been fighting longer than most Tau will live. Tau lifespans are looking to be equivalent to what human lifespans were during the pre-Industrial Revolution.

Technology by itself can only boost your biological stats so far. Skill and training will push it even further, experience even further, etc.

What you'll likely see is a "Veteran" Fire Warrior unit that can take Rail Rifles and gets BS4.

And even that will be pushing it, assuming they're veteran AND have technological enhancements to their ability to track fast-moving targets or targets at a distance (which is the weak part of their sight).

Kraken seems fine rules wise, but under priced by far - maybe 265pts or something close to a LR etc. I would bet a variety of things listed will have different rules and pricing, but if the theme of this content is real then it looks like a very nice direction for Tau.

Please please Battlesuits as troop
and New model of battlesuit, or when I have done this army. it would be freakishly expensive (All FW army?)

guyperson5 wrote:
OK then, Brother SRM
(rumors aplenty)

Now that's a post! This still seems fairly playtesty, and there are some things that sound a bit iffy to me, but this is pretty substantial. The Kraken sounds like it could use some tweaking, but most of this seems plausible at this stage. Thanks for sharing!

Brother SRM wrote:

guyperson5 wrote:
OK then, Brother SRM
(rumors aplenty)

Now that's a post! This still seems fairly playtesty, and there are some things that sound a bit iffy to me, but this is pretty substantial. The Kraken sounds like it could use some tweaking, but most of this seems plausible at this stage. Thanks for sharing!

Most of it sounds more like wishlisting to me.

The Kraken especially, since that's what gets proposed anytime a Tau player talks about "tweaking railguns".

guyperson5 wrote:
OK then, Brother SRM

*rumours*

It does sound very fan-dexy to me. I'll be taking lots of salt with this.

Some of it sounds kind of interesting.

Well if rumors are true the same guy that wrote the Guard Codex will write the Tau.

If that's the case get ready for an insane buff to Tau.

Anyone who thinks that 60 point 3 wound Crisis suits with every weapon system would be bad needs to sit back and rethink their life.

Fetterkey wrote:Anyone who thinks that 60 point 3 wound Crisis suits with every weapon system would be bad needs to sit back and rethink their life.

Agreed. You pay 62 for a Fireknife right now.

Yeah, those 'rumors' were believable until you got to the Kraken. Thats a superheavy vehicle if I ever saw one....

Also, the fact that sniper teams are 0-1 kinda confuzzles me, considering no other unit in any 5th ed. book retained a 0-1 restriction.

hmmm a "kraken heavy grav tank" I think GW has been spying on me.....



oh well, won't be the first time...( checks room for bugs...)

Or you've been spying on them.

Chapter Approved 2004 had a "heavy grav tank" in there, the Swordfish with twin-linked Railguns.

yeah I remember that model, the extended engine mounts with the twin Rails, I liked its paintjob, but never been a fan of 2 big identical guns in a turret only granting you a re-roll to hit...seemed kinda wasteful

But pretty sure I'm not spying on them, since unfortunatly I get most my news here on Dakka

Also, am I the only one who thinks the Kraken is not really that good? For 70 points over a Hammerhead, you get +1 BS and a somewhat improved railgun vs. vehicle lineups, but lose submunitions. Two ion cannons don't make up for no submunitions in my book, though it does make you more resilient to weapon destroyed results. I might take it, but I'm not sure if it's worth 50% more than an ordinary Hammerhead when its weapons are similar or perhaps worse. Maybe if it has at least 14/13 armor?

Kanluwen wrote:

Vladamyr wrote:

Kanluwen wrote: Well maybe if the Tau developed depth perception and glasses, they'd be BS4!

This comment really angers me, because its what everyone says when Tau FW BS 3 is brought up....I am sorry but thats what we have the best technological equipment....to make up for that......


Rant over

And that puts you on par with a normal Guardsman in terms of shooting. Yes, Veterans have higher--but that's because they've been fighting longer than most Tau will live. Tau lifespans are looking to be equivalent to what human lifespans were during the pre-Industrial Revolution.

Technology by itself can only boost your biological stats so far. Skill and training will push it even further, experience even further, etc.

What you'll likely see is a "Veteran" Fire Warrior unit that can take Rail Rifles and gets BS4.

Tau see in Infrared and Ultraviolet.


It takes them longer to focus on a target that is farther away, it has nothing to do with their accuracey, just the rate at which they fire at long range. Their weapons fire farther than human weapons can accurately aim in terms of Bolters or Lasguns. Tau BS being 3 is a joke.

Tau are described as having good eyesight and being as strong as a Guardsman. The only reason they aren't good in CC is because they find it beneathe them in terms of modern warfare. They are represented on TT as the same STR and Toughness as a guardsman with superior armor.

BeefCakeSoup wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:

Vladamyr wrote:

Kanluwen wrote: Well maybe if the Tau developed depth perception and glasses, they'd be BS4!

This comment really angers me, because its what everyone says when Tau FW BS 3 is brought up....I am sorry but thats what we have the best technological equipment....to make up for that......


Rant over

And that puts you on par with a normal Guardsman in terms of shooting. Yes, Veterans have higher--but that's because they've been fighting longer than most Tau will live. Tau lifespans are looking to be equivalent to what human lifespans were during the pre-Industrial Revolution.

Technology by itself can only boost your biological stats so far. Skill and training will push it even further, experience even further, etc.

What you'll likely see is a "Veteran" Fire Warrior unit that can take Rail Rifles and gets BS4.

Tau see in Infrared and Ultraviolet.

...And?

It takes them longer to focus on a target that is farther away, it has nothing to do with their accuracy, just the rate at which they fire at long range. Their weapons fire farther than human weapons can accurately aim in terms of Bolters or Lasguns. Tau BS being 3 is a joke.

"Taking longer to focus on a target that is farther away" will "have something to do with their accuracy".

The "rate at which they fire at long range" is more dependent on the weapon and training of the individual, not their visual acuity.
Also:
You realize that Lasguns and Bolters are just as accurate as Pulse Rifles, right?
I mean, if you're really wanting to go into the fluff about accuracy--all three are fairly inaccurate when compared to Eldar weaponry. Even Shuriken Pistols are more accurate than a sniper variant longlas or a rail rifle.

The "accurate aim" part that you were talking about earlier though, that comes into effect when you consider how the weapons are used.
Bolters are fired, generally, by Astartes moving at a full run and pouring fire on to suppress a target--which is what the Tau do with their Pulse Carbines. The goal for that kind of fire isn't accuracy. It's suppression--keeping the enemy's head down.

Lasguns are fired, generally, as withering hails of lasfire to thin out targets rushing their lines--once again, same with Tau utilizing their Pulse Rifles.
The goal there, once again, isn't accuracy. It's to try to stagger the enemy and keep them ducking, preventing them overrunning your position.

Tau are described as having good eyesight and being as strong as a Guardsman. The only reason they aren't good in CC is because they find it beneath them in terms of modern warfare. They are represented on TT as the same STR and Toughness as a guardsman with superior armor.

They may "be as strong as a Guardsman", but brute force doesn't mean diddly overall when it comes to CC.
Remember that weapon skill isn't based off strength alone. It's finesse, experience, or just sheer dirty tricks.

Personally though, I would be allowing for Tau and Imperial Guard to opt to use their BS in lieu of WS in CC and use their weapons at close quarters.

Soo'Vah'Cha wrote:hmmm a "kraken heavy grav tank" I think GW has been spying on me.....



oh well, won't be the first time...( checks room for bugs...)

Is that something you made on your own? A FW kit? Based on a IA book?

chaos0xomega wrote:Yeah, those 'rumors' were believable until you got to the Kraken. Thats a superheavy vehicle if I ever saw one....

Also, the fact that sniper teams are 0-1 kinda confuzzles me, considering no other unit in any 5th ed. book retained a 0-1 restriction.

I believe the 0-1 restriction that he was talking about was the 0-1 restriction on taking 3 teams as only 1 slot.

--As to that giant load of rumor that was just dropped--
Well, I'm having a hard time believing these rumors, but this IS GW we're talking about... *cough*DEEPSTRIKINGLANDRAIDERS*cough*

Some of the changes suggested sound good, as they force you to choose which direction your army takes. If markerlight drones are now that cheap, they'd be a boon to any fire warrior team. But if you can't take drones AND the new kroot hound attachment (I really hope that if that is true, they'll at least release a box of hounds, even if it's not the right number), so you'd have to choose between surviving an assault, or being better at shooting.
And I'm guessing those "permanent markerlight hit on unit" missiles would cost a helluva lot more than that, if they're made.

But some of those rumors, mostly the "either/or" options, of which both are good, seem like good ideas that would lead to many different ways to configure your army. I like, and I look forward to what comes.

as much as I think that Tau should be WS 2 BS 4 (that's right I play Tau and actually want them to be worse at CC than they already are) the weapons themselves aren't any more of less accurate than lasguns or shuriken rifles(a gun can only be as good as the person firing it), but the better eyesight/increased accuracy/training of the tau is evidenced in their longer than average single shot distance(30" as opposed to 24") and the technological power of the gun comes into play as a strength 5 base.

I feel that the thing people don't seem to bring up is the Tau's reliance on their technology. a regular Tau Firewarrior in a shooting tournament with a regular imperial guardsman should win hands down, in my opinion. however, in battle they are looking for and counting on markerlight hits to guide them. it's not that they can't shoot better, but they are trained to shoot a certain way.

based on that I believe that the fix is to make marker drones a little less expensive( both in points cost and in availability on the real world market [the only way to buy them is with stealth suits and you only get one? what?]) and or to allow the Shas'ui to use his markerlight to light up his own teams targets( I.E.: all markerlights are networked). or make it so that drones are still relentless when with infantry squads.

OnDebit wrote:as much as I think that Tau should be WS 2 BS 4 (that's right I play Tau and actually want them to be worse at CC than they already are) the weapons themselves aren't any more of less accurate than lasguns or shuriken rifles(a gun can only be as good as the person firing it), but the better eyesight/increased accuracy/training of the tau is evidenced in their longer than average single shot distance(30" as opposed to 24") and the technological power of the gun comes into play as a strength 5 base.

You clearly don't know very much about weapons. There is a difference in weapon accuracy, moreso than just the accuracy of a user. There are only a handful of weapons in existence that can consistently hit the same spot when mounted in a firing rig (a machine that eliminates the effect of weapon recoil/user skill by keeping it fixed in place, usually used in an environmentally controlled room to mitigate atmospheric effects). Most weapons fire in a spread. Some weapons (such as .50 heavy mg's) are actually engineered to fire in a cone pattern in order to provide better suppressing fire. To say that a pulse rifle is no more or less accurate than a lasgun or shuriken rifle is a fallacy. Theoretically a lasgun would have perfect accuracy (it fires a beam of light in a straight line) not counting things such as atmospheric distortion, etc., while a shuriken rifle would be effected by 'bullet drop' as well as aerodynamics (its a super thin disk). I don't know exactly how a pulse rifle works, but I would assume it would also have its own related accuracy modifiers.

Depending on what kind of ammunition the Pulse rifle fires. If I remember it was suppose to be some sort of energy, which would in theory make it just as accurate as a lasgun (unless specifically designed to shoot in a cone fasion), which also fires energy instead of solid slugs.

Personally I would love to see Tau gain a section of wargear similar to the Arcane Wargear of the Dark Eldar, although less on "arcane" and more on technological achievements, mainly to migate the fact that they do not possess psykers. As opposed to weapons it could be mroe akin to Eldar psychic powers, which enhances their own troops rather than hamper enemies (which would also be in line with their whole "I'm practical" schtick).

Pulse rifles use bundles of graviton energy to make the bullets suck their way onto targets by a kind of warp vacuum effect.

There's no such thing as a near miss, because it becomes a hit.

Anyway, enough "fluff" crap about why Tau should or shouldn't be this, that and the other.

They should work in the game. They should have an equal chance with other armies.

Considering the disadvantages of rubbish melee and no space magic, this means Tau need improved movement and firepower, and/or some kind of melee and space magic defence systems. All this can be done in a fluffy way.

Those rumors seem oddly similar to these...
http://kroxitau.blogspot.com/2010/03/new-tau-codex-leak.html

"the pulse rifle uses an induction field to propel a particle, which reacts by breaking down to create a plasma pulse as it leaves the barrel."

I'm not sure how that would react to physics, but there is also the fact that light (from a lasgun lets say) diffuses the farther it gets from it's source. the lasgun shot is concentrated when it leaves the barrel, but it's still going to cone out and get weaker the farther away the target is. either way all of these guns, lasgun, shuriken rifle, bolter, pulse rifle, etc. are close enough, accuracy wise, that I still feel it's safe to say that they are equal in that regard even if they are balanced in slightly different ways.

03b wrote:Those rumors seem oddly similar to these...
http://kroxitau.blogspot.com/2010/03/new-tau-codex-leak.html

Good find! And the author acknowledged it to be an April's fool joke:

Kroxitau wrote:
Looking over the current BA codex, it appears I was too conservative with the power level of the "5th edition Tau codex"

I do like a lot of the ideas in this version (all modesty aside)

OSH- yeah stealth USR makes a lot of sense on those units

I really think that dark eldar are going to be the best out flankers, and with blood angels being the best deep strikers (landraiders!? dreadnought troops with fleet!?) the next codices to come out are going to have a bunch of anti-null deployment in them. Ways to attack deep strikers as they come in or delay or mess around with deep striking and out flankers. IG have some elements of this, as do Nids, but I think Tau are gonna be all about preventing the enemy from effectively using null deployment tactics. We will see.

Personally i think the Ethereal needs to be seriously looked at in terms of game play effectiveness. Although an April Fool's joke, i think blind to the warp is an awesome ability (stupid lash...)

So the attempt to make a substantial post here turned out to be a blatant fraud and copied from someone else.
Posts like this give you a bad reputation here!

Way to make me happy, then prank me. Thanks a lot, Guyperson.

If people want to discuss possible Tau Codex ideas there are several threads in the Proposed Rules forum.

Starting with this one...

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/326557.page

IMO there are heaps of good ideas already available. GW could make a good codex by taking and refining some of the things that have been suggested in the different threads.

One thing that's always bugged me about the Tau is Pulse Carbines.

They're the perfect place to start compensating for Tau's lack of CC ability.

03b wrote:Those rumors seem oddly similar to these...
http://kroxitau.blogspot.com/2010/03/new-tau-codex-leak.html

Welp.

Kanluwen wrote:One thing that's always bugged me about the Tau is Pulse Carbines.

They're the perfect place to start compensating for Tau's lack of CC ability.

How do you figure?

I put it in the thread that KK linked, but just for you SRM:

Kanluwen wrote:Pulse Carbines can be the answer here for the Fire Warriors.

Allow Fire Warrior Teams to have different "loadouts", such as:
'Skirmisher' loadout--The Fire Warriors ditch their Pulse Rifles in favor of Pulse Carbines and Stun Grenades, along with taking a pair of Heavy Gun Drones with them and whatever potential transport they have.

To offset the fact that they have Stun Grenades, the unit comes equipped with Hard-wired Blacksun Filters so they don't blind themselves using their own grenades to disorient and confuse the foe, allowing the Fire Warriors to cut them down with disciplined Carbine Fire and the Heavy Gun Drones' Burst Cannons.

'Hunter' loadout(Standard loadout)--The Fire Warriors come equipped with Pulse Rifles and Photon Grenades along with Marker Drones that supplement their volleys of fire.

Then of course, there's the real kicker of a rule that should have been implemented from the get-go for both Guard and Tau.

"Fire Discipline"--The units are trained to stand their ground, pouring fire on into a charging foe.
During the first round of combat, the unit makes attacks using their standard weapons and utilizing their Ballistic Skill.
In subsequent rounds of combat, the unit can make attacks using their standard weapons but those attacks must be used with their Weapon Skill.

I will steer clear from the fluff debate, I will say this though, Firewarriors shouldn't be compared to Guardsmen.

In terms of comparisons on TT

Guardsman = Kroot - Both get big squads, weapons are offset, as are armor saves(shaper) and CC capabilities.

Vet = Firewarrior - More costly squads paired up against sturdier enemies with better weapons.

I haven't heard a whole lot about Tau, but I have heard the following rumor-- just something I picked up from the 3++ chatbox, so take it with a grain of salt:

Pulse rifle: Heavy 2, otherwise unchanged
Pulse carbine: Assault 2, otherwise unchanged

@Beefcakesoup
Er, no.
Vets= Pathfinders
They're both meant to fulfill a single role and operate away from the main force, altering their loadouts as necessary to face foes beyond their means.

Fire Warriors are as close to Guardsmen as you're going to get. They're meant to take on various enemies using a rather inflexible weapon loadout(admittedly: Guardsmen have far more flexibility, but that's because the Guard have more of a reliance upon their specific regimental assets, Tau rely on a more "combined arms" approach with each unit in the army having a specific defined role), and operate as a sort of "jack of all trades, master of none".

Kroot have no direct comparison outside of maybe the "Forward Sentries" loadout for Guard, where they would ditch armor for speed and stealth.

Fetterkey:
I can only hope that's not true. Pulse Rifles should be able to fire as either Heavy 2 or Rapid Fire.

Kanluwen wrote:I put it in the thread that KK linked, but just for you SRM:

Alright, that makes more sense. When you said "as an answer to CC" I thought you meant it would give them close combat buffs. Your idea is similar to mine, where I'd have Fire Warriors take a leadership test to see if they can fire at a unit before it charges. Once in close combat they fight like normal, but having a round of shooting that counts for combat resolution would do them a lot of good.

Edit: too tired to debate.

Good points, I agree on some Kan.

BeefCakeSoup wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:@Beefcakesoup
Er, no.
Vets= Pathfinders
They're both meant to fulfill a single role and operate away from the main force, altering their loadouts as necessary to face foes beyond their means.

Fire Warriors are as close to Guardsmen as you're going to get. They're meant to take on various enemies using a rather inflexible weapon loadout(admittedly: Guardsmen have far more flexibility, but that's because the Guard have more of a reliance upon their specific regimental assets, Tau rely on a more "combined arms" approach with each unit in the army having a specific defined role), and operate as a sort of "jack of all trades, master of none".

Kroot have no direct comparison outside of maybe the "Forward Sentries" loadout for Guard, where they would ditch armor for speed and stealth.

Fetterkey:
I can only hope that's not true. Pulse Rifles should be able to fire as either Heavy 2 or Rapid Fire.

If you wanted a comparison you would go with Kroot man.
I'm sorry if you think it odd but it's true.
a 5+ vs a 6+ save
S3 v S4 weps
20 Kroot, 12 hounds, 3 Krootox. Infantry, Assualters, Light AT
Shaper adds to LD, Hounds give melee capabilities, Tox provide utility.
Kroot are by most standards the match-up for Guardsmen.

No, they really aren't. Kroot are a specialist unit, more akin to veterans or abhumans' roles within the Guard army. They're not the line troops of the Tau forces, they're the skirmish screens and forward scouts.

As for Vets = PFs

I could see that in some capacity.

I think most Guard players struggle with the concept of Tau because it is an alien shooter army. The natural idea is to match-up Infantry to Infantry when you have to remember we don't align perfectly with Guard. We don't use 50 FWs and give them the order to First Rank Fire, Second Rank Fire and dump 150 pulse rifle shots into somethings face then assualt what's left.

Uh, no.
"The natural idea" is to match up infantry to infantry because that's what they are. I'm not necessarily looking at just the stats, I'm looking at how they're said to operate, their role within the army, etc.
Fire Warriors are the bread and butter of the Tau Cadres, just like Guardsmen are the bread and butter of the Imperial Guard.

The only difference is that Fire Warriors operate more like the Elysians, rather than the 'standard' idea of Guardsmen.

I would match up FW against Dire Avengers, Tac Squads, Vets etc. They have more in common due to their save, squad size, battlefield purpose and their weapon.

Their "battlefield purpose" is to hold the line. That makes them line infantry. They just have more gimmicks than your 'average' Guard squad does.

I do wish that Guard had been able to retain their "Heavy Armour" doctrine and purchase Carapace Armour for everyone, but that's neither here nor there.

Brother SRM wrote:Alright, that makes more sense. When you said "as an answer to CC" I thought you meant it would give them close combat buffs. Your idea is similar to mine, where I'd have Fire Warriors take a leadership test to see if they can fire at a unit before it charges. Once in close combat they fight like normal, but having a round of shooting that counts for combat resolution would do them a lot of good.

I could see the CC buff thing working too.

Maybe let them have some kind of unique grenade that they can fire within CC?
I mean, the Carbine does have an underslung grenade launcher after all.


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BeefCakeSoup wrote:Edit: too tired to debate.

Good points, I agree on some Kan.

I'm not really trying to debate, honest BeefCakeSoup.

I can see some of where you're coming from, but I'm not strictly going down the army list and picking this and this and this and saying "well this matches this because the saves are the same".

The roles for each unit in the Tau army have always been pretty set. It's supposed to echo the idea of "Everyone works towards the Greater Good", and where the Fire Warriors who use Kroot as bait for traps still refuse to put the Kroot unit's safety above their own.

What they really need to do with Tau is accentuate their move and shoot mentality and make them very mobile and shooty. They should also give suits a piece of wargear like the frag launcher, or something that allows them to hit and run, or both. Mobile shooting should be what Tau are about.

That and they really need to get away from the Tau guns being knock offs of imperial weapons. While it is nice as a reference, it just takes away from them somehow. Forge world has come up with nice suit and gun ideas, so I think the XV-9's should be in there as well. With how insane they are making the armies now, I really don't see why they can't have suits that are T5...

I can go on and on, but I just want something that is the exact opposite of my Orks, is fun to play, and has depth. Oh and can win... That might be too much to ask for, but I definitely want it.

I'm pretty much betting the Tau will be getting a larger suit, like the DreadKnight.

Infantry in 40K is in brackets.

The bracket for Guard is Kroot.


In that, 12 Kroot could fight 12 guard and they would be evenly matched up in both shooting and assualt.


12 Guard vs 12 FWs would be lopsided in FW favor at 30 inches, 24 inches and 12 inches.

I don't find them to be an even match-up if Guard requires 3-1 odds in a fight when it comes to shooting(their primary attack)

Like I said though, you have some good points, just on this specific issue I disagree. Kroot are the Tau's Guardsmen.

Kroot are the Tau's Ratlings, but with a Conscript Platoon attached


Automatically Appended Next Post:
As a sidenote: I find the idea of "infantry brackets" ridiculous, because it's looking at things within a vacuum.

Anyone can make something look bad within a vacuum.
If you don't look at things within the whole, then you're doing yourself a disservice.

Are Fire Warriors, by themselves lackluster by the standard of Guard?
Yes. But that was the case, even before this ridiculous "bracket" nonsense was hitting the scene. Fire Warriors have always been far more inflexible when compared to Guard (or any race besides Necrons, really).

Is that necessarily because Fire Warriors are "not the Guard's bracket match"?
No.

Is it because the Guard Codex was updated more recently than Fire Warriors?
Bingo, we have a winner!

What does this mean overall?
That people need to stop picking and choosing specific entries to compare against other entries, without looking at the context of the unit and its role within the army.

I overhead something from the store owner where I live -Not sure if it was a rumor they were talking about or what but they might change the rail gun rules to work like this.

"Draw a 72 Inch Straight line as its measurement. All models it passes through starting from the first model takes a str 10 ap 1 hit. Than the Rail bulltet (Because this is how a real life rail gun would probably work.) takes a str 9 hit of same Ap. Than str 8,7,6,5,4,3,2,1.

So it could pass through 10 models each dealing a AP 1 shot. As the Super Mangetic Rail shot fires a shot far more powerful than any ballistic shell could hope to achive with the penetration power that Lasers and plasma just cannot achieve.

So the str of the hit starts at 10. Than works its way down...Not sure if it actually goes from 10-1 but it will go at least 6 deep.


ALSO GUARRENTEED THINGS TO HAPPEN!


All Previous Wargear that was special Order for a single model is now STANDARD ISSUE! Because lots of time has passed there will be newer and all the testing will be done. Plus story wise there has been many years of advancement too.

Shadow Suns Previous Suit is now available as the new stealth suits and she dawns a new experimental suit
Farsight will have a few tweaks and we can now use him AND shadowsun in much smaller games.

At least 2-3 New Versions of Crisis Suits.

Field Gen wrote:
ALSO GUARRENTEED THINGS TO HAPPEN!


All Previous Wargear that was special Order for a single model is now STANDARD ISSUE! Because lots of time has passed there will be newer and all the testing will be done. Plus story wise there has been many years of advancement too.

Shadow Suns Previous Suit is now available as the new stealth suits and she dawns a new experimental suit
Farsight will have a few tweaks and we can now use him AND shadowsun in much smaller games.

At least 2-3 New Versions of Crisis Suits.

that seems abit risky but i like it!

Kanluwen wrote:Kroot are the Tau's Ratlings, but with a Conscript Platoon attached


Automatically Appended Next Post:
As a sidenote: I find the idea of "infantry brackets" ridiculous, because it's looking at things within a vacuum.

Anyone can make something look bad within a vacuum.
If you don't look at things within the whole, then you're doing yourself a disservice.

Are Fire Warriors, by themselves lackluster by the standard of Guard?
Yes. But that was the case, even before this ridiculous "bracket" nonsense was hitting the scene. Fire Warriors have always been far more inflexible when compared to Guard (or any race besides Necrons, really).

Is that necessarily because Fire Warriors are "not the Guard's bracket match"?
No.

Is it because the Guard Codex was updated more recently than Fire Warriors?
Bingo, we have a winner!

What does this mean overall?
That people need to stop picking and choosing specific entries to compare against other entries, without looking at the context of the unit and its role within the army.

A Firewarrior's role is to camp, markerlight, either raise BS or call in a seeker missile.

A Guardsman's job is to either hop into a Chimera and augment it's firepower, or join a platoon and die with glory.


In all honesty, their role on the battlefield is very similar to Kroot in terms of tactics, troop size, weapon / armor loadout, and price.

So with respect to your opinion Kan, FWs aren't used the same, aren't priced the same, are equipped with better weapons than Space Marines, have a superior save in more of a veteran area, and have access to Seeker Missiles via the Shas'Ui through his Markerlight.

How about GW releases a squad box of battle suits.

guyperson5,

As a Tau player, I'd be embarrassed to show up with my army if all thats true. I'm not saying it isn't but even you must agree if you simply looked at that in comparision what was before, you might have some reservations.

If not, I get to use my ForgeW SMS crisis suits! Yes, it wasn't a waste of money after all.

Cheers

Andrew

Soo'Vah'Cha wrote:hmmm a "kraken heavy grav tank" I think GW has been spying on me.....



oh well, won't be the first time...( checks room for bugs...)

Come to papa.... Looks beautiful... you should sell the rights to that!

Field Gen wrote:I overhead something from the store owner where I live -Not sure if it was a rumor they were talking about or what but they might change the rail gun rules to work like this.

"Draw a 72 Inch Straight line as its measurement. All models it passes through starting from the first model takes a str 10 ap 1 hit. Than the Rail bulltet (Because this is how a real life rail gun would probably work.) takes a str 9 hit of same Ap. Than str 8,7,6,5,4,3,2,1.

So it could pass through 10 models each dealing a AP 1 shot. As the Super Mangetic Rail shot fires a shot far more powerful than any ballistic shell could hope to achive with the penetration power that Lasers and plasma just cannot achieve.

So the str of the hit starts at 10. Than works its way down...Not sure if it actually goes from 10-1 but it will go at least 6 deep.

Sorry, I don't know if I read this right, but did you say, the Railgun "bullet" takes a hit every time it hits something else?

Field Gen wrote:ALSO GUARRENTEED THINGS TO HAPPEN!


All Previous Wargear that was special Order for a single model is now STANDARD ISSUE! Because lots of time has passed there will be newer and all the testing will be done. Plus story wise there has been many years of advancement too.

Shadow Suns Previous Suit is now available as the new stealth suits and she dawns a new experimental suit
Farsight will have a few tweaks and we can now use him AND shadowsun in much smaller games.

At least 2-3 New Versions of Crisis Suits.

Ok, that all sounds awesome, but I'm taking a large sack of salt with this.

So far, IMO, these rumours are looking pretty nice.

AndrewC wrote:guyperson5,
As a Tau player, I'd be embarrassed to show up with my army if all thats true. I'm not saying it isn't but even you must agree if you simply looked at that in comparision what was before, you might have some reservations.

See above: He just copypasted an April fool's joke from a blog, presenting this fake as his own true rumour.
Noone will ever believe anything guyperson5 posts again.

I jumped in at the last point I'd read to and knee-jerk posted.



Do you know what would be an absolutely brilliant April fools joke?

If it were true....

Cheers

Andrew

I think the T4 vs. T5 thing for suits could be remedied with wargear.

Keep suits base toughness 4, but allow them to take wargear that would bump them up to Toughness 5. Similar to a mark of nurgle. But make it true Toughness 5 not T4(5). Call it extra armor or something. That way it doesn't nerf the ability of opponents to take them down, but you can make them super tough if you want.

PraetorDave wrote:I think the T4 vs. T5 thing for suits could be remedied with wargear.

Keep suits base toughness 4, but allow them to take wargear that would bump them up to Toughness 5. Similar to a mark of nurgle. But make it true Toughness 5 not T4(5). Call it extra armor or something. That way it doesn't nerf the ability of opponents to take them down, but you can make them super tough if you want.

The problem Tau players have with them is that they are vulnerable to instant death, not small arms fire. If the 3 wound rumor is true, then nobody will shoot them with anything less than a battle cannon again. Unless of course they change the instant death rules in 6th, which wouldn't be impossible I guess. I'd personally change it to strength double toughness +1, so it'd take strength 9 or 10 to gib a multiwound T4 model.

guyperson5 wrote:There is also a new tau auxillary race that is some kind of centaur thing that no one will use.

No one will take it unless they are Zoats. Then all the old school RT players will jump to Tau just so they can finally play their Zoats. But outside of them, no one will play them.

Guyperson's rumours have already been debunked as fake/ copy and pasted from an April fools.

Brother SRM wrote:

PraetorDave wrote:I think the T4 vs. T5 thing for suits could be remedied with wargear.

Keep suits base toughness 4, but allow them to take wargear that would bump them up to Toughness 5. Similar to a mark of nurgle. But make it true Toughness 5 not T4(5). Call it extra armor or something. That way it doesn't nerf the ability of opponents to take them down, but you can make them super tough if you want.

The problem Tau players have with them is that they are vulnerable to instant death, not small arms fire. If the 3 wound rumor is true, then nobody will shoot them with anything less than a battle cannon again. Unless of course they change the instant death rules in 6th, which wouldn't be impossible I guess. I'd personally change it to strength double toughness +1, so it'd take strength 9 or 10 to gib a multiwound T4 model.

Or simply put: Battlesuits need AV rather than simply acting like bikes.

Ugh, no.

missle launchers would still kill them just as easily and it would be harder to get them cover saves. They would get a slight boost to survivability against small arms fire, but thats not the problem right now. The issue is instant death weapons.

How would it be "harder to get them cover saves"?

They'd still be a damned sight smaller than any other vehicle out there.
If the issue is "instant death weapons"--then remove the ability to be affected by Instant Death.


All you really need to do is put a line in there that "Tau Battlesuits when fired upon are treated as vehicles, for all other purposes they are Jump Infantry".

So then you trade one form of instant death (double strength weaponry taking away all wounds) for another form of instant death (anything that is a 4+ on the vehicle damage table, since they will be in "squadrons" and immobilization = destroyed).

And if they are treated as vehicles then 50% of their facing will need to be obscured as opposed to any part of them being obscured. That is how it would be harder to get them cover saves.

TAU NEEDS A WALKER!

Not a crisis suit but an actual Dread knight sized walker.

Its already been done. I don't want GK's sloppy seconds.

Keep the army full of stuff that is super mobile and shoott, not good in CC but with ways to keep armies out of CC, and finally has tools that require the army to work together.

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Soo'Vah'Cha wrote:hmmm a "kraken heavy grav tank" I think GW has been spying on me.....



oh well, won't be the first time...( checks room for bugs...)

OMFG! That would make a perfect substitute for a Cobra (but for Tau).

How did you make that?

several hammerhead kits, and a 1/35th Merkava with lots of plasti-card, there are more photos of its progress in my P&M blog in my sig, I took my time unfortunatly but now its getting painted .

I plan on 2 more versions, just not sure when I will start, maybe this summer.

Hopefully the new Tau Codex will make me wanna take my Army back up again. I would really like to make an all Crisis Suit army. That would be pretty bad ass.

Ahtman wrote:Seems like they heard the calls for the ability to make an all crisis suit army. Mobile Suit Gundam Sept?

So we'll be getting the option to build another small, elite army (just like the GK are)?

Locking for threadomancy. Will re-open for new rumors or start a new thread instead (for new rumors, that is)