On the GW website, I checked the 'what's new today', and found a large artical on the new imperial assasins. After reading abit, only one thought could fill my head:


WS 8! thats better than a DE Archon who would have been practicing for hundreds of years! and almost on par to Lelith Hesperax, best Wych ever to live!
S 4? why on Earth are they as strong as Super-Human Space Marines? they train to be fast right? not beefy and brawny!
Neural Shredder? for taking out MEN! then it should AP3/_ everyone will just use this on the biggest tanks on the board!
Eversor with a AP 2 Poisoned 2+ pistol? thats better than the DE's, who dedicated their WHOLE LONG lives to find better poisons!

This is all I tell you! !
The one known as Ward must be behind this...

Yep. Assassins have always been the best part of Inquisitorial detachments/armies.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, no one expects the inquisition.

They are 130-145 points, unique, can get instant killed by str 8, and take up an elite slot on their own, and have a +4 save. If I was fighting them they would be a very high priority target considering the damage they can do.

Urien_Rakarth wrote:
WS 8! thats better than a DE Archon who would have been practicing for hundreds of years! and almost on par to Lelith Hesperax, best Wych ever to live!

Considering that an assassin's entire life is about neutralizing singular threats like Archons, it shouldn't be surprising.

S 4? why on Earth are they as strong as Super-Human Space Marines? they train to be fast right? not beefy and brawny!

Assassins juice. A lot.

Neural Shredder? for taking out MEN! then it should AP3/_ everyone will just use this on the biggest tanks on the board!

Except for that bit saying that they can't harm vehicles, sure.

Eversor with a AP 2 Poisoned 2+ pistol? thats better than the DE's, who dedicated their WHOLE LONG lives to find better poisons!

I don't think you understand just how important an assassin's mission is. A Dark Eldar may dedicate his life to finding better poisons, but the Imperium will dedicate billions upon billions of lives of work to ensure that an Assassin's job gets done.

This is all I tell you! !
The one known as Ward must be behind this...

I hate Ward as much as the next guy, but Assassins are fine. Maybe if you realized that DE aren't supposed to be the be-all end-all of 40k, you'd understand.

Assassins were originally WS 8. That was back in the days when they had their own codex...

I have to be honest, I was a little taken aback by that article also.

But then again I hadn't read the codex, and thought assassins were an upgrade to an INQ retinue.

Now reading the points and fact that they are a 1 model elite choice, seems much fairer!

Cottonjaw wrote:
Also, no one expects the inquisition.

Codexes are different. I mean GK battlesuit better than my tau, armor better than my CSM, melee better than my berzerkers, ect ect... but they are an elite army, their stuff is supposed to be good.

Just shoot the damn assassin, it will drop like a fly to a raider full of dudes doing a driveby.

Assassin's have always been like this, it's their whole point. They used to have their own codex.
STR 4 Toughness 4 with a 4+ invulnerable "dodge" save is they way they always have been and the way they should be.

In the HH novel Nemesis, an Eversor assassin kills a Son of Horus Space Marine using basically his bare hands. Not easily, mind you, but he still does it. If he would have had a power weapon it would have been over for the marine in a heartbeat.

Matt Ward has nothing to do with making Assassins what they are today. Because it's the way they've always been

If anything all assassins not named Vindicare are weaker now...

Fafnir wrote:

Urien_Rakarth wrote:
WS 8! thats better than a DE Archon who would have been practicing for hundreds of years! and almost on par to Lelith Hesperax, best Wych ever to live!

Considering that an assassin's entire life is about neutralizing singular threats like Archons, it shouldn't be surprising.

That's one point of view. Another one is; Archons as supreme masters of hand to hand combat. Better throw an electric heater into their bath, then.

Yeah i played a 1vs1vs1 game the other day and a ten man squad of sisters were closing in on my objective from behind my lines. I decided the best thing i could do was get my assassin in CC with them since he was the closest thing i had to em (so many people are going to yell at me for that). He was able to draw in CC for two turns against them and finally died in the third turn. Pretty crazy.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Shoulda specified it was a Vindicare...

Exopheric wrote:Assassins were originally WS 8. That was back in the days when they had their own codex...

Huh? Where'd you read this? They were pretty much the same as to how they were in the Deamonhunter release. Assassins never really had their own "Codex" it was just a small supplement to imperial armies as far as I'm aware.

Yknow the one with the Eversor on the front right?

The assassins not the vindicare took a hit (other than the culexus... that works well within the book due to ammount of psykers)

I still love the eversor tho. Lightning claw = awesome.

Imperial Assassins have been the shizzit ever since I started playing when dinosaurs ruled the earth. The eversor, when first released, slaughtered a banshee squad, seriously chopped up an Avatar and exploded gloriously half way into the game in the first WD batrep he showed up in.

Vindicares didn't get nearly so much love back in those days because targetting rules and ICs were not as crucial, it picked off 1 heavy weapon guy a turn, and yeah that was about it. The Calidus was the assassin of choice for most because it was the easiest way of killing off one devastator by appearing, then munching the rest of the squad in subsequent melee. Eversor was choice for people who wanted a giant tyranid monster in human form.

They are meant to be awesomely good. They have always been also meant to be easy enough to kill with massed small arms shots or sustained combats against hordes of grunts. Everybody rolls 1s.

Pen - they had their own codex, called codex: assassins.

Meh, just use clever movement and bolter shock and they'll go down, quite potentially in a single turn.

Just like all my other opponents.

The only one I've got a problem with is the Vindicare. I don't approve of him getting a rifle that is second in anti-tank capability only to the sort of guns you build superheavy tanks around.

Pen≥Sword wrote:

Exopheric wrote:Assassins were originally WS 8. That was back in the days when they had their own codex...

Huh? Where'd you read this? They were pretty much the same as to how they were in the Deamonhunter release. Assassins never really had their own "Codex" it was just a small supplement to imperial armies as far as I'm aware.

Yknow the one with the Eversor on the front right?

They've had two codices - one in 2nd and one in 3rd - as well as their inclusion in the DH and WH codices.

Pen≥Sword wrote:

Exopheric wrote:Assassins were originally WS 8. That was back in the days when they had their own codex...

Huh? Where'd you read this? They were pretty much the same as to how they were in the Deamonhunter release. Assassins never really had their own "Codex" it was just a small supplement to imperial armies as far as I'm aware.

Yknow the one with the Eversor on the front right?

Yeah... that was called Codex: Assassins

So they did have their own codex

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Codex:_Assassins_%283rd_Edition%29

Urien_Rakarth wrote:On the GW website, I checked the 'what's new today', and found a large artical on the new imperial assasins. After reading abit, only one thought could fill my head:


WS 8! thats better than a DE Archon who would have been practicing for hundreds of years! and almost on par to Lelith Hesperax, best Wych ever to live!
S 4? why on Earth are they as strong as Super-Human Space Marines? they train to be fast right? not beefy and brawny!
Neural Shredder? for taking out MEN! then it should AP3/_ everyone will just use this on the biggest tanks on the board!
Eversor with a AP 2 Poisoned 2+ pistol? thats better than the DE's, who dedicated their WHOLE LONG lives to find better poisons!

This is all I tell you! !
The one known as Ward must be behind this...

So, to summarise:

"My Dark Eldar were the best, now they're not. Waah!"

Kilkrazy wrote:That's one point of view. Another one is; Archons as supreme masters of hand to hand combat. Better throw an electric heater into their bath, then.

lol sigged

Guitardian wrote:Imperial Assassins have been the shizzit ever since I started playing when dinosaurs ruled the earth. The eversor, when first released, slaughtered a banshee squad, seriously chopped up an Avatar and exploded gloriously half way into the game in the first WD batrep he showed up in.

Vindicares didn't get nearly so much love back in those days because targetting rules and ICs were not as crucial, it picked off 1 heavy weapon guy a turn, and yeah that was about it. The Calidus was the assassin of choice for most because it was the easiest way of killing off one devastator by appearing, then munching the rest of the squad in subsequent melee. Eversor was choice for people who wanted a giant tyranid monster in human form.

They are meant to be awesomely good. They have always been also meant to be easy enough to kill with massed small arms shots or sustained combats against hordes of grunts. Everybody rolls 1s.

Vindicares also lacked unlimited ammunition. If you missed with your shot (unlikely, but possible) or if it failed to cause any noticable damage, you're not gonna get a second shot. The new unlimited ammunition really help make him a force to be reckoned with. However the bump to 4D6 made him just devastating (on average it will glance a Land Raider).

Back then I always thought of the vindicare as the assassin for the artist players, eversor for the charging bloodthirsty brutes, and calidus for the gimmick players who want a cheap trick. Call it elitism if you like, but Vindicare's had class. It's funny that in fluff, the vindicares are the careful planning ones, the eversors are the raging maniacs, and the calidus are the conniving tricksters. Pretty similar really.

MechaEmperor7000 wrote:

Guitardian wrote:Imperial Assassins have been the shizzit ever since I started playing when dinosaurs ruled the earth. The eversor, when first released, slaughtered a banshee squad, seriously chopped up an Avatar and exploded gloriously half way into the game in the first WD batrep he showed up in.

Vindicares didn't get nearly so much love back in those days because targetting rules and ICs were not as crucial, it picked off 1 heavy weapon guy a turn, and yeah that was about it. The Calidus was the assassin of choice for most because it was the easiest way of killing off one devastator by appearing, then munching the rest of the squad in subsequent melee. Eversor was choice for people who wanted a giant tyranid monster in human form.

They are meant to be awesomely good. They have always been also meant to be easy enough to kill with massed small arms shots or sustained combats against hordes of grunts. Everybody rolls 1s.

Vindicares also lacked unlimited ammunition. If you missed with your shot (unlikely, but possible) or if it failed to cause any noticable damage, you're not gonna get a second shot. The new unlimited ammunition really help make him a force to be reckoned with. However the bump to 4D6 made him just devastating (on average it will glance a Land Raider).

Pen a Landraider you mean.

it's still a sniper rifle and so is Str3 vs vehicles.

Urien_Rakarth wrote:
The one known as Ward must be behind this...

Cut it out with that already.

Assassins were unstoppable killing machines before he was even employed at GW.

There was a time when Vindcares shot twice a turn; Callidus auto-killed a model of their choice, before wiping out his squad conventionally; Eversors could kill an entire army in one turn (not hyperbole, they actually had the ability to do this); and Culexus were mostly untargetable.

Actually, im sure that this isn't cheese at all.

Fluff-wise, aren't the assassin's of the imperium known for killing Primarchs, C'tan, Greater Demons, and anything else that would take an IG regiment or a SM chapter to take on.

Heck, im surprised they arent hitting faster or more that Lelith. She is still getting (up to ) 12 Power-Weapon swings at I 9, which is more than enough to kill MEQ squads. Throw in furious charge and she'll have an easier time with it too.

I have to say the only thing im dissapointed about is the fact that i can no longer take assassins as auxillaries, i would had loved to use the Vindicare Assassin's rules for Mad Larkin in my Tanith IG army.

Urien_Rakarth wrote:On the GW website, I checked the 'what's new today', and found a large artical on the new imperial assasins. After reading abit, only one thought could fill my head:


WS 8! thats better than a DE Archon who would have been practicing for hundreds of years! and almost on par to Lelith Hesperax, best Wych ever to live!
S 4? why on Earth are they as strong as Super-Human Space Marines? they train to be fast right? not beefy and brawny!
Neural Shredder? for taking out MEN! then it should AP3/_ everyone will just use this on the biggest tanks on the board!
Eversor with a AP 2 Poisoned 2+ pistol? thats better than the DE's, who dedicated their WHOLE LONG lives to find better poisons!

This is all I tell you! !
The one known as Ward must be behind this...

Cottonjaw wrote:Yep. Assassins have always been the best part of Inquisitorial detachments/armies.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, no one expects the inquisition.

Hido wrote:They are 130-145 points, unique, can get instant killed by str 8, and take up an elite slot on their own, and have a +4 save. If I was fighting them they would be a very high priority target considering the damage they can do.

Fafnir wrote:

Urien_Rakarth wrote:
WS 8! thats better than a DE Archon who would have been practicing for hundreds of years! and almost on par to Lelith Hesperax, best Wych ever to live!

Considering that an assassin's entire life is about neutralizing singular threats like Archons, it shouldn't be surprising.

S 4? why on Earth are they as strong as Super-Human Space Marines? they train to be fast right? not beefy and brawny!

Assassins juice. A lot.

Neural Shredder? for taking out MEN! then it should AP3/_ everyone will just use this on the biggest tanks on the board!

Except for that bit saying that they can't harm vehicles, sure.

Eversor with a AP 2 Poisoned 2+ pistol? thats better than the DE's, who dedicated their WHOLE LONG lives to find better poisons!

I don't think you understand just how important an assassin's mission is. A Dark Eldar may dedicate his life to finding better poisons, but the Imperium will dedicate billions upon billions of lives of work to ensure that an Assassin's job gets done.

This is all I tell you! !
The one known as Ward must be behind this...

I hate Ward as much as the next guy, but Assassins are fine. Maybe if you realized that DE aren't supposed to be the be-all end-all of 40k, you'd understand.

Exopheric wrote:Assassins were originally WS 8. That was back in the days when they had their own codex...

Leigen_Zero wrote:I have to be honest, I was a little taken aback by that article also.

But then again I hadn't read the codex, and thought assassins were an upgrade to an INQ retinue.

Now reading the points and fact that they are a 1 model elite choice, seems much fairer!

juraigamer wrote:

Cottonjaw wrote:
Also, no one expects the inquisition.

Codexes are different. I mean GK battlesuit better than my tau, armor better than my CSM, melee better than my berzerkers, ect ect... but they are an elite army, their stuff is supposed to be good.

Just shoot the damn assassin, it will drop like a fly to a raider full of dudes doing a driveby.

NagothDaCleaver wrote:Assassin's have always been like this, it's their whole point. They used to have their own codex.
STR 4 Toughness 4 with a 4+ invulnerable "dodge" save is they way they always have been and the way they should be.

In the HH novel Nemesis, an Eversor assassin kills a Son of Horus Space Marine using basically his bare hands. Not easily, mind you, but he still does it. If he would have had a power weapon it would have been over for the marine in a heartbeat.

Matt Ward has nothing to do with making Assassins what they are today. Because it's the way they've always been

Amaya wrote:If anything all assassins not named Vindicare are weaker now...

Kilkrazy wrote:

Fafnir wrote:

Urien_Rakarth wrote:
WS 8! thats better than a DE Archon who would have been practicing for hundreds of years! and almost on par to Lelith Hesperax, best Wych ever to live!

Considering that an assassin's entire life is about neutralizing singular threats like Archons, it shouldn't be surprising.

That's one point of view. Another one is; Archons as supreme masters of hand to hand combat. Better throw an electric heater into their bath, then.

Drake118 wrote:Yeah i played a 1vs1vs1 game the other day and a ten man squad of sisters were closing in on my objective from behind my lines. I decided the best thing i could do was get my assassin in CC with them since he was the closest thing i had to em (so many people are going to yell at me for that). He was able to draw in CC for two turns against them and finally died in the third turn. Pretty crazy.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Shoulda specified it was a Vindicare...

Pen≥Sword wrote:

Exopheric wrote:Assassins were originally WS 8. That was back in the days when they had their own codex...

Huh? Where'd you read this? They were pretty much the same as to how they were in the Deamonhunter release. Assassins never really had their own "Codex" it was just a small supplement to imperial armies as far as I'm aware.

Yknow the one with the Eversor on the front right?

Urien_Rakarth wrote:On the GW website, I checked the 'what's new today', and found a large artical on the new imperial assasins. After reading abit, only one thought could fill my head:


WS 8! thats better than a DE Archon who would have been practicing for hundreds of years! and almost on par to Lelith Hesperax, best Wych ever to live!
S 4? why on Earth are they as strong as Super-Human Space Marines? they train to be fast right? not beefy and brawny!
Neural Shredder? for taking out MEN! then it should AP3/_ everyone will just use this on the biggest tanks on the board!
Eversor with a AP 2 Poisoned 2+ pistol? thats better than the DE's, who dedicated their WHOLE LONG lives to find better poisons!

This is all I tell you! !
The one known as Ward must be behind this...

Iago wrote:The assassins not the vindicare took a hit (other than the culexus... that works well within the book due to ammount of psykers)

I still love the eversor tho. Lightning claw = awesome.

Guitardian wrote:Imperial Assassins have been the shizzit ever since I started playing when dinosaurs ruled the earth. The eversor, when first released, slaughtered a banshee squad, seriously chopped up an Avatar and exploded gloriously half way into the game in the first WD batrep he showed up in.

Vindicares didn't get nearly so much love back in those days because targetting rules and ICs were not as crucial, it picked off 1 heavy weapon guy a turn, and yeah that was about it. The Calidus was the assassin of choice for most because it was the easiest way of killing off one devastator by appearing, then munching the rest of the squad in subsequent melee. Eversor was choice for people who wanted a giant tyranid monster in human form.

They are meant to be awesomely good. They have always been also meant to be easy enough to kill with massed small arms shots or sustained combats against hordes of grunts. Everybody rolls 1s.

nosferatu1001 wrote:Pen - they had their own codex, called codex: assassins.

Melissia wrote:Meh, just use clever movement and bolter shock and they'll go down, quite potentially in a single turn.

Just like all my other opponents.

AlexHolker wrote:The only one I've got a problem with is the Vindicare. I don't approve of him getting a rifle that is second in anti-tank capability only to the sort of guns you build superheavy tanks around.

Pen≥Sword wrote:

Exopheric wrote:Assassins were originally WS 8. That was back in the days when they had their own codex...

Huh? Where'd you read this? They were pretty much the same as to how they were in the Deamonhunter release. Assassins never really had their own "Codex" it was just a small supplement to imperial armies as far as I'm aware.

Yknow the one with the Eversor on the front right?

They've had two codices - one in 2nd and one in 3rd - as well as their inclusion in the DH and WH codices.

NagothDaCleaver wrote:

Pen≥Sword wrote:

Exopheric wrote:Assassins were originally WS 8. That was back in the days when they had their own codex...

Huh? Where'd you read this? They were pretty much the same as to how they were in the Deamonhunter release. Assassins never really had their own "Codex" it was just a small supplement to imperial armies as far as I'm aware.

Yknow the one with the Eversor on the front right?

Yeah... that was called Codex: Assassins

So they did have their own codex

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Codex:_Assassins_%283rd_Edition%29

Miraclefish wrote:

Urien_Rakarth wrote:On the GW website, I checked the 'what's new today', and found a large artical on the new imperial assasins. After reading abit, only one thought could fill my head:


WS 8! thats better than a DE Archon who would have been practicing for hundreds of years! and almost on par to Lelith Hesperax, best Wych ever to live!
S 4? why on Earth are they as strong as Super-Human Space Marines? they train to be fast right? not beefy and brawny!
Neural Shredder? for taking out MEN! then it should AP3/_ everyone will just use this on the biggest tanks on the board!
Eversor with a AP 2 Poisoned 2+ pistol? thats better than the DE's, who dedicated their WHOLE LONG lives to find better poisons!

This is all I tell you! !
The one known as Ward must be behind this...

So, to summarise:

"My Dark Eldar were the best, now they're not. Waah!"

Brother Heinrich wrote:

Kilkrazy wrote:That's one point of view. Another one is; Archons as supreme masters of hand to hand combat. Better throw an electric heater into their bath, then.

lol sigged

MechaEmperor7000 wrote:

Guitardian wrote:Imperial Assassins have been the shizzit ever since I started playing when dinosaurs ruled the earth. The eversor, when first released, slaughtered a banshee squad, seriously chopped up an Avatar and exploded gloriously half way into the game in the first WD batrep he showed up in.

Vindicares didn't get nearly so much love back in those days because targetting rules and ICs were not as crucial, it picked off 1 heavy weapon guy a turn, and yeah that was about it. The Calidus was the assassin of choice for most because it was the easiest way of killing off one devastator by appearing, then munching the rest of the squad in subsequent melee. Eversor was choice for people who wanted a giant tyranid monster in human form.

They are meant to be awesomely good. They have always been also meant to be easy enough to kill with massed small arms shots or sustained combats against hordes of grunts. Everybody rolls 1s.

Vindicares also lacked unlimited ammunition. If you missed with your shot (unlikely, but possible) or if it failed to cause any noticable damage, you're not gonna get a second shot. The new unlimited ammunition really help make him a force to be reckoned with. However the bump to 4D6 made him just devastating (on average it will glance a Land Raider).

Guitardian wrote:Back then I always thought of the vindicare as the assassin for the artist players, eversor for the charging bloodthirsty brutes, and calidus for the gimmick players who want a cheap trick. Call it elitism if you like, but Vindicare's had class. It's funny that in fluff, the vindicares are the careful planning ones, the eversors are the raging maniacs, and the calidus are the conniving tricksters. Pretty similar really.

Grey Templar wrote:

MechaEmperor7000 wrote:

Guitardian wrote:Imperial Assassins have been the shizzit ever since I started playing when dinosaurs ruled the earth. The eversor, when first released, slaughtered a banshee squad, seriously chopped up an Avatar and exploded gloriously half way into the game in the first WD batrep he showed up in.

Vindicares didn't get nearly so much love back in those days because targetting rules and ICs were not as crucial, it picked off 1 heavy weapon guy a turn, and yeah that was about it. The Calidus was the assassin of choice for most because it was the easiest way of killing off one devastator by appearing, then munching the rest of the squad in subsequent melee. Eversor was choice for people who wanted a giant tyranid monster in human form.

They are meant to be awesomely good. They have always been also meant to be easy enough to kill with massed small arms shots or sustained combats against hordes of grunts. Everybody rolls 1s.

Vindicares also lacked unlimited ammunition. If you missed with your shot (unlikely, but possible) or if it failed to cause any noticable damage, you're not gonna get a second shot. The new unlimited ammunition really help make him a force to be reckoned with. However the bump to 4D6 made him just devastating (on average it will glance a Land Raider).

Pen a Landraider you mean.

it's still a sniper rifle and so is Str3 vs vehicles.

DarknessEternal wrote:

Urien_Rakarth wrote:
The one known as Ward must be behind this...

Cut it out with that already.

Assassins were unstoppable killing machines before he was even employed at GW.

There was a time when Vindcares shot twice a turn; Callidus auto-killed a model of their choice, before wiping out his squad conventionally; Eversors could kill an entire army in one turn (not hyperbole, they actually had the ability to do this); and Culexus were mostly untargetable.

Anidem wrote:Actually, im sure that this isn't cheese at all.

Fluff-wise, aren't the assassin's of the imperium known for killing Primarchs, C'tan, Greater Demons, and anything else that would take an IG regiment or a SM chapter to take on.

Heck, im surprised they arent hitting faster or more that Lelith. She is still getting (up to ) 12 Power-Weapon swings at I 9, which is more than enough to kill MEQ squads. Throw in furious charge and she'll have an easier time with it too.

I have to say the only thing im dissapointed about is the fact that i can no longer take assassins as auxillaries, i would had loved to use the Vindicare Assassin's rules for Mad Larkin in my Tanith IG army.

Urien_Rakarth wrote:On the GW website, I checked the 'what's new today', and found a large artical on the new imperial assasins. After reading abit, only one thought could fill my head:


WS 8! thats better than a DE Archon who would have been practicing for hundreds of years! and almost on par to Lelith Hesperax, best Wych ever to live!
S 4? why on Earth are they as strong as Super-Human Space Marines? they train to be fast right? not beefy and brawny!
Neural Shredder? for taking out MEN! then it should AP3/_ everyone will just use this on the biggest tanks on the board!
Eversor with a AP 2 Poisoned 2+ pistol? thats better than the DE's, who dedicated their WHOLE LONG lives to find better poisons!

This is all I tell you! !
The one known as Ward must be behind this...

You're so wrong it hurts, uhg.
Assassins are as they have been FOREVER.

I take it you are a complete noob. For that perhaps you can be forgiven. Learn more next time.

I dont mind the Assassins Stats to much they are suppost to be elite and powerful, and they are expensive points wise to balance it out

I did find the over hype in the article amusing though!

Man, that sure is a lot of emoticons ya got there, OP.

Anidem wrote:Actually, im sure that this isn't cheese at all.

Fluff-wise, aren't the assassin's of the imperium known for killing Primarchs, C'tan, Greater Demons, and anything else that would take an IG regiment or a SM chapter to take on.

Heck, im surprised they arent hitting faster or more that Lelith. She is still getting (up to ) 12 Power-Weapon swings at I 9, which is more than enough to kill MEQ squads. Throw in furious charge and she'll have an easier time with it too.

I have to say the only thing im dissapointed about is the fact that i can no longer take assassins as auxillaries, i would had loved to use the Vindicare Assassin's rules for Mad Larkin in my Tanith IG army.

Well, they killed one Primarch, who let himself be killed. I don't ever recall reading about them killing Greater Daemons, and I know they haven't killed any C'tan. There was that one story where a Callidus failed spectacularly to kill the Deceiver, but in game the only single being I know of who's defeated a C'tan one on one is the ol' Emprar.

they actually nerfed the Callidus and Vindicare slightly.

the Phase blade doesn't ignore Invulns anymore and the Vindicare can't shoot into CC anymore either.

that said, they got better overall, but being able to shoot into CC was pretty cool.

Can we ask users not to quote almost every post in a thread just to add an emoticon or similar at the bottom of it. Much obliged.

Hido wrote:They are 130-145 points, unique, can get instant killed by str 8, and take up an elite slot on their own, and have a +4 save. If I was fighting them they would be a very high priority target considering the damage they can do.

what do you mean unique? can't you play 3 of them? i only went over the codex once but i never seen anything making them unique.
or did i miss something @_@

GamzaTheChaos wrote:

Hido wrote:They are 130-145 points, unique, can get instant killed by str 8, and take up an elite slot on their own, and have a +4 save. If I was fighting them they would be a very high priority target considering the damage they can do.

what do you mean unique? can't you play 3 of them? i only went over the codex once but i never seen anything making them unique.
or did i miss something @_@

They're unique in the sense that you're only allowed one of each assassin.

They are marked as unique in the army list... You can take 3 different assasins but not 3 copies of one assassin

Basically each kind of assassin is 0-1.

Urien_Rakarth wrote:On the GW website, I checked the 'what's new today', and found a large artical on the new imperial assasins. After reading abit, only one thought could fill my head:


WS 8! thats better than a DE Archon who would have been practicing for hundreds of years! and almost on par to Lelith Hesperax, best Wych ever to live!
S 4? why on Earth are they as strong as Super-Human Space Marines? they train to be fast right? not beefy and brawny!
Neural Shredder? for taking out MEN! then it should AP3/_ everyone will just use this on the biggest tanks on the board!
Eversor with a AP 2 Poisoned 2+ pistol? thats better than the DE's, who dedicated their WHOLE LONG lives to find better poisons!

This is all I tell you! !
The one known as Ward must be behind this...

I'd offer you some cheese with your whine but judging by your OP it seems you've got/had enough already.

L. Wrex

Kilkrazy wrote:
That's one point of view. Another one is; Archons as supreme masters of hand to hand combat. Better throw an electric heater into their bath, then.

I want to play that game. You spend 200 points on an Archon. I spend 100 on an assassin for my force. On a 2+, my assassin kills your archon in the bathtub before the game begins and neither are deployed. That's what wargames should be like.


...

They nerfed the Eversor too, he used to get a 12" charge.

Redbeard wrote:
They nerfed the Eversor too, he used to get a 12" charge.

And infiltrate.

Grey Templar wrote:

MechaEmperor7000 wrote:

Guitardian wrote:Imperial Assassins have been the shizzit ever since I started playing when dinosaurs ruled the earth. The eversor, when first released, slaughtered a banshee squad, seriously chopped up an Avatar and exploded gloriously half way into the game in the first WD batrep he showed up in.

Vindicares didn't get nearly so much love back in those days because targetting rules and ICs were not as crucial, it picked off 1 heavy weapon guy a turn, and yeah that was about it. The Calidus was the assassin of choice for most because it was the easiest way of killing off one devastator by appearing, then munching the rest of the squad in subsequent melee. Eversor was choice for people who wanted a giant tyranid monster in human form.

They are meant to be awesomely good. They have always been also meant to be easy enough to kill with massed small arms shots or sustained combats against hordes of grunts. Everybody rolls 1s.

Vindicares also lacked unlimited ammunition. If you missed with your shot (unlikely, but possible) or if it failed to cause any noticable damage, you're not gonna get a second shot. The new unlimited ammunition really help make him a force to be reckoned with. However the bump to 4D6 made him just devastating (on average it will glance a Land Raider).

Pen a Landraider you mean.

it's still a sniper rifle and so is Str3 vs vehicles.

Ok now that is cheese.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
From what I can see the Eversor suffered the worst of the nerfing, having it's points increased by 40 while loosing some special abilities (bio meltdown and the 12 inch charge). On the other hand I think the Vindicare actually got much better. Loosing the ability to shoot into combat kinda sucks, but it got unlimited ammunition, better BS (for that all important reroll) and better Turbo Penetrator. The Callidus also got a bit better in that she can just appear and cause damage, before neuro-flaming the hell out of the enemy models.

MechaEmperor7000 wrote:The Callidus also got a bit better in that she can just appear and cause damage, before neuro-flaming the hell out of the enemy models.

Except she could already appear out of nowhere, but with a C'tan power sword that ignored every kind of save. Now it's just an ID PW...

Couldn't she charge in the turn she came in on also?

Yep. And she had "A Word in your Ear," which was just freaking awesome.

Really, Vindicare is the only assassin REALLY worth taking now. The Eversor lost its great charge range and infiltrate, making it much harder to actually get into combat, the Callidus lost almost everything that made her unique, and the Culexus always sucked anyway.

Culexus served me well vs my wife's dual seer councils

I don't play WH/DH any more, but i used to really enjoy the Assasins.

Pen≥Sword wrote:

Exopheric wrote:Assassins were originally WS 8. That was back in the days when they had their own codex...

Huh? Where'd you read this? They were pretty much the same as to how they were in the Deamonhunter release. Assassins never really had their own "Codex" it was just a small supplement to imperial armies as far as I'm aware.

Yknow the one with the Eversor on the front right?

I've got the Codex Assassins sitting around somewhere. I remember it being very thin.

Fafnir wrote:

Redbeard wrote:
They nerfed the Eversor too, he used to get a 12" charge.

And infiltrate.

And Sustained Assault. Of course, that predates a rule even called Infiltrate, but man did it kill armies.

For all you young'uns, when an Eversor charged into a model (not a unit, things didn't work that way), and killed that model, he immediately charged again. If he made contact, he fought again. This repeated until he ran out of models to charge.

That's a far cry better than +d6 attacks.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Bromsy wrote:but in game the only single being I know of who's defeated a C'tan one on one is the ol' Emprar.

Ferrus Manus and Khaine also.

nosferatu1001 wrote:Pen - they had their own codex, called codex: assassins.

The one with the Eversor on the front right? Because that wasn't really a stand alone codex. It gave you the rules for the four assassins and how to use them with your army and a few special scenarios. None of which were WS 8.

What basically happened was that there was a change of guard among the Assassins in regards
to playability. Whereas previously the Callidus was choice number one and all the others distant second,
now the Vindicare reigns as top dog.

The Callidus lost two unique abilities ( "A Word in Your Ear" and C`tan Phase Sword omnipenetration ) that made her a good choice and in return became a Marbo clone.

The Eversor became a poor joke. An Assassin without Infiltrate? Really ?

And the Culexus? Was already a marginal choice during the old Codex.

Grey Templar wrote:
Pen a Landraider you mean.

it's still a sniper rifle and so is Str3 vs vehicles.

No, it's only 4D6.

"A turbo-penetrator shot has a Armor Pnentration of 4D6." Not +4D6.

but in game the only single being I know of who's defeated a C'tan one on one is the ol' Emprar.

Dont forget Ferrus Manus.
He killed one with his hands


But OT, they are fine.
Vindi finally got the boost he deserves after so many years of nerf.
Rest seem pretty basic, if not poor.

'
Dont forget Ferrus Manus.
He killed one with his hands '

Are we talking permanantly destroyed (as all 4 remaining ones from the codex are currently accounted for) or 'temporarily inconvenienced'

It's pretty easy to temporarily inconvenience a Ctan, very very hard to actually kill one..

Fafnir wrote: and the Culexus always sucked anyway.

This hurt to read. The Culexus is still awesome, as a large number of non-SM armies will have trouble shooting at him, and he can clear entire units by himself when playing a full GK army. Stick him in a rhino too, turn one, and drive him forward and let him unleash hell. He will take some work to get going properly, but your opponent will have a hard time ignoring him. It just adds to the punishment when his own vehicle is a psyker (and yes, I realize a rhino is a DT, hence first turn needing to hop in)

Culexus got a tad bit better by virtue of everything else in the army counting as psykers now. However he lost his Souless rule, which is a shame because it was perfectly fluffy and competitive.

Can you fill me in on the soulless rule? I forgot it and never got a chance to use him with old rules

It reduces everyone's LD with 12" down to 7, unless it would be lower than this. And it's everyone but the Culexus, so even your own troops. It's fluffy because it represents how even with his powers suppressed, the Culexus Assassin just unnerves everyone around him.

Very cool. And of course, that would make it near-impossible for anyone nearby to shoot him, huh? Position him correctly and he'll almost never die. Wish that was still in effect with the new rules

timetowaste85 wrote: It just adds to the punishment when his own vehicle is a psyker (and yes, I realize a rhino is a DT, hence first turn needing to hop in)

No there are not. No "Psyker" rule = not a Psyker. So Culexus dose not get the bonus from GK vehicle.

Noir wrote:

timetowaste85 wrote: It just adds to the punishment when his own vehicle is a psyker (and yes, I realize a rhino is a DT, hence first turn needing to hop in)

No there are not. No "Psyker" rule = not a Psyker. So Culexus dose not get the bonus from GK vehicle.

he will get the bonus from the vehicle because of the psychic pilot special rule. Page 21 if you want to look it up.

Punisher Gatling Cannon wrote:

Noir wrote:

timetowaste85 wrote: It just adds to the punishment when his own vehicle is a psyker (and yes, I realize a rhino is a DT, hence first turn needing to hop in)

No there are not. No "Psyker" rule = not a Psyker. So Culexus dose not get the bonus from GK vehicle.

he will get the bonus from the vehicle because of the psychic pilot special rule. Page 21 if you want to look it up.

No he dose not. Psychic pilot let you take a psychic test for the use of one power and vs psychic hood. It dose not make it a Psyker. Page 21 if you want.

Noir wrote:

No he dose not. Psychic pilot let you take a psychic test for the use of one power and vs psychic hood. It dose not make it a Psyker. Page 21 if you want.

pg 21 where it says "A vehicle with this special rule is treated as being a pskyer"?

Seems pretty cut and dry.

the FULL line is "A vehicle with this special rule is treated as being a pskyer and Ld10 for the purposes of Psychic Tests and Psychic Hoods only"


for the purposes of Psychic Tests and Psychic Hoods only is the killer of any Psyker specific attacks.

juraigamer wrote:

Cottonjaw wrote:
Also, no one expects the inquisition.

Codexes are different. I mean GK battlesuit better than my tau, armor better than my CSM, melee better than my berzerkers, ect ect... but they are an elite army, their stuff is supposed to be good.

Just shoot the damn assassin, it will drop like a fly to a raider full of dudes doing a driveby.

NO ONE EXPECTS THE SPANISH INQUISITION! NO BODY!

Grey Templar wrote:the FULL line is "A vehicle with this special rule is treated as being a pskyer and Ld10 for the purposes of Psychic Tests and Psychic Hoods only"


for the purposes of Psychic Tests and Psychic Hoods only is the killer of any Psyker specific attacks.

Let me give a grammar lesson then. That sentence structurally reads:

A vehicle with this special rule is treated as a psyker. A vehicle with this special rule is treated as [having] Ld10 for the purpose of psychic tests and psychic hoods.

"And" is what we call a conjunction that joins two or more clauses together, in this case, using the same subject.

Also, you added the "only", it does not appear in the book.

the Only can be added because this is a permissive rules set.

DarknessEternal wrote:

Grey Templar wrote:the FULL line is "A vehicle with this special rule is treated as being a pskyer and Ld10 for the purposes of Psychic Tests and Psychic Hoods only"


for the purposes of Psychic Tests and Psychic Hoods only is the killer of any Psyker specific attacks.

Let me give a grammar lesson then. That sentence structurally reads:

A vehicle with this special rule is treated as a psyker. A vehicle with this special rule is treated as [having] Ld10 for the purpose of psychic tests and psychic hoods.

"And" is what we call a conjunction that joins two or more clauses together, in this case, using the same subject.

Also, you added the "only", it does not appear in the book.

And you should learn to read better. There is no stop in the sentence, thats important. No matter how you think it should read, there is no stop. It one sentence and MUST be read that way.

It's pretty clear that the intention was that the Vehicle, for all intents and purposes, is suppose to be a Psyker. Note that under Mastery it indicates that the level comes after "the Psyker Special Rule". This would indicate that the part mentioning the vehicle is being treated as a psyker literally means "it now gains the Psyker special rule". That's how I'd go by it in RAW. Going by RAI, it's also pretty clear they intended for it to be a Psyker.

MechaEmperor7000 wrote:It's pretty clear that the intention was that the Vehicle, for all intents and purposes, is suppose to be a Psyker. Note that under Mastery it indicates that the level comes after "the Psyker Special Rule". This would indicate that the part mentioning the vehicle is being treated as a psyker literally means "it now gains the Psyker special rule". That's how I'd go by it in RAW. Going by RAI, it's also pretty clear they intended for it to be a Psyker.

No it dosen't, if they wanted it to be a Psyker they give it the "Psyker" rule. Like every Psyker in the game has.

Punisher Gatling Cannon wrote:

Noir wrote:

timetowaste85 wrote: It just adds to the punishment when his own vehicle is a psyker (and yes, I realize a rhino is a DT, hence first turn needing to hop in)

No there are not. No "Psyker" rule = not a Psyker. So Culexus dose not get the bonus from GK vehicle.

he will get the bonus from the vehicle because of the psychic pilot special rule. Page 21 if you want to look it up.

Cool, if you want to play that way, my Crucible of Malediction just sucked your Landraider into Hell, along with everyone inside.

I don't mind!

Don't forget guys, "Vindicare Assassin can not fire on Eldar Farsseer due to love." Should balance things out a bit!

The vehicle isnt a psyker except when it casts its own power.

Sniper rifle - that line is functionally identical to the old DH entry, which while only 3D6 WAS FAQ'd to confirm that, yes, it is STILL a sniper rifle and so is 3+3D6+Rending on any and all 6s.

THis is exactly the same. 3+4D6+rending on any and all 6s rolled. Arguing otherwise also means that chainfists only roll 2D6 total for armour penetration, as they have the same line.

The +D6 IS your "armour penetration", your armour penetratrion ROLL is S+XD6

Probably pointing out the obvious but... Both the rifle and the pistol are subject to those rules. So yeah, you could ker-xplode a LR with a pistol in one shot

They are both AP1 as well IIRC, so it's even kind likely.

Well it is 5/6+(1/6*1/2) to hit, or 11/12 chance of hitting
You then on average get an armour pen of 17 (avg per D6 is 3.5, before rends, so 14 in total, +3 for sniper) and any 6s just add to that.

So rougly 70% chance of a pen result. This then needs a 4+ to kill a normal, working vehice.

Which is what got me last night - pen'd a LR twice in a row, both results were a 1 and a 3. Didnt kill it, but stopped it moving.

GeckoOBac wrote:Probably pointing out the obvious but... Both the rifle and the pistol are subject to those rules. So yeah, you could ker-xplode a LR with a pistol in one shot

They are both AP1 as well IIRC, so it's even kind likely.

Dark eldar blast pistols can, i think

Ditto Inferno pistols.

Its a nice image, isn't it

Blasters are only S8, Ap2, so no exploding a landraider

Infernus are AP1 melta so can do so, however have to roll reasonably well to penetrate.

Vindicare: There's no kill like overkill.

For everything else: Let's wait for the FAQ.

nosferatu1001 wrote:Blasters are only S8, Ap2, so no exploding a landraider

They're S8 AP2 Lance, so yes, they can explode a Land Raider.

nosferatu1001 wrote:Sniper rifle - that line is functionally identical to the old DH entry, which while only 3D6 WAS FAQ'd to confirm that, yes, it is STILL a sniper rifle and so is 3+3D6+Rending on any and all 6s.

THis is exactly the same. 3+4D6+rending on any and all 6s rolled. Arguing otherwise also means that chainfists only roll 2D6 total for armour penetration, as they have the same line.

The +D6 IS your "armour penetration", your armour penetratrion ROLL is S+XD6

If that the case how dose it work with Monoliths, would it only be 3+1D6 like the chainfist only give +1D6.

Noir wrote:

nosferatu1001 wrote:Sniper rifle - that line is functionally identical to the old DH entry, which while only 3D6 WAS FAQ'd to confirm that, yes, it is STILL a sniper rifle and so is 3+3D6+Rending on any and all 6s.

THis is exactly the same. 3+4D6+rending on any and all 6s rolled. Arguing otherwise also means that chainfists only roll 2D6 total for armour penetration, as they have the same line.

The +D6 IS your "armour penetration", your armour penetratrion ROLL is S+XD6

If that the case how dose it work with Monoliths, would it only be 3+1D6 like the chainfist only give +1D6.

There's a certain amount of debate about that

My view is that as the monolith specifies that you only ever get the unmodded str of the weapon + 1d6 you would get 3 (sniper weapon Str vs vehicles) + 1d6. The other view is that it ignores the Living Metal rule and does a flat 4d6. Until we get an FAQ or new Monolith rules it's a bit up in the air, thoug both sides will declaim that only their way is true RAW

It's going to be one of mnay things in the GK FAQ...I swear that FAQ is going to be as long as the codex itself.

Are we talking permanantly destroyed (as all 4 remaining ones from the codex are currently accounted for) or 'temporarily inconvenienced'

It's pretty easy to temporarily inconvenience a Ctan, very very hard to actually kill one..

Read his fluff.
Killed is a pretty clear word.

Blasters are only S8, Ap2, so no exploding a landraider

Infernus are AP1 melta so can do so, however have to roll reasonably well to penetrate.

They are also lance, so yes they can.

average roll of a 7 on 2D6 = Pen.
No only have to roll average.

why do we need the FAQ?

if the issue could go one of 2 ways, it will be the one in the GKs favor, every time.

Maybe we'll be lucky and GW has recognized Matt Ward's folly, and will be using the FAQ in an attempt to tone down GK!

And maybe Satan will be buying jackets at Hot Topic, and Bacon Wings will become available, but hey...a man can dream can't he?

ChrisWWII wrote:Maybe we'll be lucky and GW has recognized Matt Ward's folly, and will be using the FAQ in an attempt to tone down GK!

And maybe Satan will be buying jackets at Hot Topic, and Bacon Wings will become available, but hey...a man can dream can't he?

Or we can get our very own cheap jet packs. *waits another 5 decades*

The GK codex itself seems even less proof read than the last few, there are so many glaring problems they should have caught. When the FAQ is released, it will most definately be monumental in size.

Noir wrote:
And you should learn to read better. There is no stop in the sentence, thats important. No matter how you think it should read, there is no stop. It one sentence and MUST be read that way.

There is a stop. "and" is a stop. It's a conjunction joining two clauses. That's how English works.

The sentence you are imagining is "The vehicle is treated as a psyker with Ld 10 for purposes of psychic tests and psychic hoods."

It only acts as a seperator if it is , and. If there is no comma it is not linking two independent clauses.

If Grey Templar quoted the rule properly, then there is not necessarily two seperate clauses in that sentence linked by the conjunction 'and'. As it seems, it appears to be linking 'psyker' with 'Leadership 10', implying that the two are meant to be used together. In game terms, this seems to come across as equivalent to the phrase 'psyker with leadership 10'.

Jackal wrote:

Are we talking permanantly destroyed (as all 4 remaining ones from the codex are currently accounted for) or 'temporarily inconvenienced'

It's pretty easy to temporarily inconvenience a Ctan, very very hard to actually kill one..

Read his fluff.
Killed is a pretty clear word.

Blasters are only S8, Ap2, so no exploding a landraider

Infernus are AP1 melta so can do so, however have to roll reasonably well to penetrate.

They are also lance, so yes they can.

average roll of a 7 on 2D6 = Pen.
No only have to roll average.

Fluff tends to speak of necron lords etc as being killed too, ditto the swarmlord etc. Doesn't mean they're gone, when speaking of things that can come back from the dead

I'll read his fluff when i get the chance, but I still doubt he killed a Ctan, as there are (canon) 4 left, all accounted for


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Which book is this fluff in, btw?

I'm not a devotee of Black Library, so I haven't read that many of their books (and i'll not get into fluff contradiction arguments on them here..)


Automatically Appended Next Post:
never mind- looked it up on lexicanum

'Medusa was a harsh, unwelcoming planet inhabited by a tough and stoic people. Ferrus would not join these tribes, as many of his brothers did. Rather he would seek out physical challenges, to make himself stronger and more resilient. These tests ended with his battle against Asirnoth, the Great Silver Wyrm, a metallic beast impervious to harm and Ferrus had to drown it in magma to kill it. The melted flesh of the wyrm fused into Ferrus' flesh, giving him the true metal hands his Legion would take its name from. '

Not seeing anthing saying it's a Ctan

Ctan don't need to breathe, would be unphased by lava (being something like living plasma inside a metal shell) and can pretty much ignore objects (including lave pits ) in the fluff by phasing through them. Also, there is no mention of the critter exploding in a mini-sun like fireball

Even assuming that it was a Ctan and that the explosion did happen, but wasn't reported, that would only mean that the Ctan's body was destroyed (see temporarily inconvenienced here again..) as the C'tan itself is a planet-sized energy being with no physical form Read the C'tan fluff

There are other machine entities out there than the Ctan you know There was a Psychic cyborg in the rulebook fluff with a mind strong enough to distort the Astronomican, for example...


*edited for clarity and lousy spelling *

nosferatu1001 wrote:Blasters are only S8, Ap2, so no exploding a landraider.

1) Blasters aren't Pistols. The Blast Pistol is a Pistol.

2) Both the Blaster and Blast Pistol are Lance, so yeah, exploding Landraiders all around!

ChrisWWII wrote:It only acts as a seperator if it is , and. If there is no comma it is not linking two independent clauses.

That's not correct, commas aren't used when you have the same subject.

True, but that's irrelevant in this situation.

Plus it would pre-suppose that GW writers actually passed their English GCSE, if you're sifting for the intent of the rule.

here is the complete quote for complete clarification.

"A vehicle with this special rule is treated as being a psyker(mastery level 1) and Ld10 for the purposes of Psychic tests and Psychic hoods. if the vehicle suffers a Perils of the Warp, treat it as a glancing hit."

Ok, I still read that as saying that it counts as a model with the psyker special rule and leadership 10, basically that it is a Ld 10 psyker. It'll peril on 2 or 12 and only fail safely with an 11. I'mnot sure what the discrepancy is, but I stand by my previous interpretation.

ChrisWWII wrote:Ok, I still read that as saying that it counts as a model with the psyker special rule and leadership 10, basically that it is a Ld 10 psyker. It'll peril on 2 or 12 and only fail safely with an 11. I'mnot sure what the discrepancy is, but I stand by my previous interpretation.

The "discrepancy" is that it is only a LD 10 Psyker with regards to Psychic Tests and Psychic Hoods.

At all other times, it is NOT a Psyker.

So....what are we talking about?

It does fit the fluff and makes perfect sense, however they are i admit very very good for the point cost. Better then majority of Space Marine HQ's and 1/3rd the point cost.

Platuan4th wrote:
The "discrepancy" is that it is only a LD 10 Psyker with regards to Psychic Tests and Psychic Hoods.

At all other times, it is NOT a Psyker.

Ah, I agree with that. It is only a psyker when it's testing to use its anti-glancing power, or...however the hell a psychic hood works. I see nothing to suggest it'd be a psyker unless one of those 2 things were happening. If it had been meant to be a psyker, they wouldn't have felt the need to specify that it works for psychic tests and hoods.

Cranberry Muffinman wrote:It does fit the fluff and makes perfect sense, however they are i admit very very good for the point cost. Better then majority of Space Marine HQ's and 1/3rd the point cost.

Wait, you buy HQs for 435 points? o,0

Leave poor Mat Ward alone. He's not THAT bad. I just wish he'd wrote the Tyranid Codex.

Squigsquasher wrote:Leave poor Mat Ward alone. He's not THAT bad. I just wish he'd wrote the Tyranid Codex.

Yes he is. Theoretically I wish he writes IG codex so I get deep striking Leman RUsses and nigh invulnerable artillery and 2 point Guardsmen. Would it be fair and balanced? No. But it'd be nice for an IG player.

In all seriousness though if Matt Ward gets his hands on my IG, I will begin to feel bad about playing IG.

Anidem wrote:Actually, im sure that this isn't cheese at all.

Fluff-wise, aren't the assassin's of the imperium known for killing Primarchs, C'tan, Greater Demons, and anything else that would take an IG regiment or a SM chapter to take on.

Heck, im surprised they arent hitting faster or more that Lelith. She is still getting (up to ) 12 Power-Weapon swings at I 9, which is more than enough to kill MEQ squads. Throw in furious charge and she'll have an easier time with it too.

I have to say the only thing im dissapointed about is the fact that i can no longer take assassins as auxillaries, i would had loved to use the Vindicare Assassin's rules for Mad Larkin in my Tanith IG army.

Bromsy wrote:

Anidem wrote:Actually, im sure that this isn't cheese at all.

Fluff-wise, aren't the assassin's of the imperium known for killing Primarchs, C'tan, Greater Demons, and anything else that would take an IG regiment or a SM chapter to take on.

Heck, im surprised they arent hitting faster or more that Lelith. She is still getting (up to ) 12 Power-Weapon swings at I 9, which is more than enough to kill MEQ squads. Throw in furious charge and she'll have an easier time with it too.

I have to say the only thing im dissapointed about is the fact that i can no longer take assassins as auxillaries, i would had loved to use the Vindicare Assassin's rules for Mad Larkin in my Tanith IG army.

Well, they killed one Primarch, who let himself be killed. I don't ever recall reading about them killing Greater Daemons, and I know they haven't killed any C'tan. There was that one story where a Callidus failed spectacularly to kill the Deceiver, but in game the only single being I know of who's defeated a C'tan one on one is the ol' Emprar.

No one has killed a C'tan besides other C'tan or possibly the old ones. C'tan are gods. The emperor defeated the void dragon in its weakest state and still couldnt kill it. Its never stated that ferrus manus killed a C'tan just some kind of Necron construct, possibly a C'tan, possibly not. Khaine couldnt even kill the nightbringer but did make him lose his form at the time. C'tan are gods people, equivilent to the chaos gods but on the mortal plane when they are at full strength.

Now back on topic. None of the assassins are that broken or game changing. Really only the Vindi for his vehicle smashing skills. Really what hes killing 1 vehicle/model a turn at most... ? whoopty do!

DarknessEternal wrote:

Noir wrote:

No he dose not. Psychic pilot let you take a psychic test for the use of one power and vs psychic hood. It dose not make it a Psyker. Page 21 if you want.

pg 21 where it says "A vehicle with this special rule is treated as being a pskyer"?

Seems pretty cut and dry.

Face....

Laughing God wrote:
No one has killed a C'tan besides other C'tan or possibly the old ones. C'tan are gods. The emperor defeated the void dragon in its weakest state and still couldnt kill it. Its never stated that ferrus manus killed a C'tan just some kind of Necron construct, possibly a C'tan, possibly not. Khaine couldnt even kill the nightbringer but did make him lose his form at the time. C'tan are gods people, equivilent to the chaos gods but on the mortal plane when they are at full strength.

Didn't kill isn't the same as couldn't kill. There's a pretty strong hint at the Emperor outting the Void Dragon on Mars so that he'd get his alliance with the AdMech 29k years later...

Indeed, it is implied the EMperor trapped the Void Dragon on purpouse so that'd he'd get the AdMech hanging around on Mars preserving technology throughtout the Age of Strife, so he'd have a strong power base in the Solar System for the Great Crusade. The Emperor is a Living God of psychic power, and the C'Tan's only vulnerability is to psychic power. If the Emperor wanted to destroy the Void Dragon, he could have.

ChrisWWII wrote:Indeed, it is implied the EMperor trapped the Void Dragon on purpouse so that'd he'd get the AdMech hanging around on Mars preserving technology throughtout the Age of Strife, so he'd have a strong power base in the Solar System for the Great Crusade. The Emperor is a Living God of psychic power, and the C'Tan's only vulnerability is to psychic power. If the Emperor wanted to destroy the Void Dragon, he could have.

AlmightyWalrus wrote:

Laughing God wrote:
No one has killed a C'tan besides other C'tan or possibly the old ones. C'tan are gods. The emperor defeated the void dragon in its weakest state and still couldnt kill it. Its never stated that ferrus manus killed a C'tan just some kind of Necron construct, possibly a C'tan, possibly not. Khaine couldnt even kill the nightbringer but did make him lose his form at the time. C'tan are gods people, equivilent to the chaos gods but on the mortal plane when they are at full strength.

Didn't kill isn't the same as couldn't kill. There's a pretty strong hint at the Emperor outting the Void Dragon on Mars so that he'd get his alliance with the AdMech 29k years later...

Void Dragon got shot with one of the Black Stone Fortresses (things were built to kill C'tan basically warpstorm shooters) that still didnt kill him but weakend him enough to put him to rest on terra, were the emperor found him and yes planted him on Mars so that its dreams would infect the people there thus giving birth to the Admech and all the warmichines the emperor would need for his crusade. But I still dont believe that the emperor could have completely destroyed the galaxies most powerful C'tan. I will just reside with the fact that its one of the many things in 40k fluff we will never know.