Ok, to start off, this will in the end be a codex for everything to do with Malal, but, I have a problem. This is my first attempt at making a codex, and I don't know where to start. I am grateful for any help, Wether it just be putting me in the right direction or actually making rules up your self.
So I plea for help so that all players have a chance to use/verse a proper Malal army Stuff decided on:
Matt.Kingsley wrote:I dont see why everyone thinks Malal stuff should have Preferred Enemy: Chaos, personally, I think it should be Preferred Enemy: Everyone as the fluff just stated he and his followers hurt everyone.
Anyway, would this be good for a Lesser Daemon of Malal?
Special Rules: Fearless, Furious Charge, 5+ Invunerable save, Daemonic Deployment, Mark of Malal
Mark of Malal - The model gains the Preferred Enemy: Everyone USR. In addition, if there are any chaos models on the board that aren't on their side, they gain the Fleet USR.
Weapons: Scythes (Lesser Malal Daemons) - Close Combat Weapons Sharpened Scythes (Unit Champion) - Rending Close Combat Weapons
Options: May take a unit champion armed with Sharpened Scythes - 10pts
Special Rules: Fearless, Furious Charge, 4+ Invunerable save, Daemonic Deployment, Mark of Malal
Mark of Malal - The model gains the Preferred Enemy: Everyone USR. In addition, if there are any chaos models on the board that aren't on their side, they gain the Fleet USR.
Weapons: Greater Scythe - Rending (4+) Close Combat Weapons
Options: May take Wings for - 20pts
Also, if anyone can tell me some of the gifts in C:CD so I can add them to the Greater Daemon, please tell me (PM preferred in this case...)
Matt.Kingsley wrote:How is this for a troop choice (still needs a name): (The stat line is that of a normal chaos space marine)
Spoiler:
You may take 0-50 ______ in an army list _______ does not take up a Force Organiseation Slot but is otherwise treated as a troop choice
Cost-15pts
(The stat line is that of a normal chaos space marine)
Wargear: Power Armour Bolt Pistol Close Combat Weapon Bolter Frag and Krak Grenades
Special Rules: Independent Character Mark of Malal
Options: -May replace bolter with 1 of the following: --Flamer.................................5pts --Plasma Gun..........................15pts --Melta Gun............................10pts --Missile Launcher....................10pts --Plasma Cannon......................15pts --Lascannon............................20pts --Heavy Bolter.........................10pts --Heavy Flamer.........................15pts --Twin-Linked Bolter.................5pts --Combi Weapon......................10pts
Wargear: Lasgun Laspistol Close Combat Weapon Flak Armour Frag Grenades
Special Rules: Attachable Squad This squad follows all the rules for Independent Characters. They must stay in Coherency with themselves as well as the squad they are joined to. Unnoticed Malal doesn't fully notice his lesser servants At the start of each game turn, roll a d6 for each squad with this rule. On a 5 or 6, the squad gains the Mark of Malal rule. Squads with an Aspiring Cultist Champ can re-roll failed results Mark of Malal (Aspiring Cultist Champ only)
Options: -May replace Lasgun with: --Flamer.........................5pts --Plasma Gun..................15pts --Melta Gun....................10pts --Heavy Flamer................20pts -Every 2 Chaos Cultists In the Squad may replace their Lasguns with: --Heavy Bolter.................10pts --Mortar..........................5pts --Lascannon....................20pts --Autocannon.................10pts --Missile Launcher............15pts -1 Cultist May take: --A Vox-caster................5pts --Medi-pack....................30pts -The entire squad may have krak grenades for 5pts -1 Chaos Cultist may be upgraded to an Aspiring Cultist Champ for 10pts -They may take Melta Bombs for 5pts -They may replace their close combat weapon with: --Power Weapon.............15pts --Lightning Claw...............15pts --Power Fist....................25pts -May replace Laspistol with: --Bolt Pistol.....................5pts --Plasma Pistol.................15pts --Hand Flamer.................5pts --Infernus Pistol...............10pts -May replace lasgun with a Boltgun for 5pts -May take Carapace Armour for 5pts
Wargear: 2 rending close combat weapons (Champion has 4+ rending, rest have 6) power armour frag + krak grenades
Special Rules: Fearless 5+ invo save Mark of Malal Daemonkin At the beginning of each game, after deployment, roll a D6 on the table below
1-Scouts 2-furious charge 3-Fleet 4-Feel no Pain 5-Venom-Gains poisoned 4+ weapons and a shooting attack with the following profile: Range-6" Str-3 AP-0 Type-Assault 1, Poisoned 4+ 6-Power Weapons-The posessed have rending power weapons that follow all the normal rules
OK. First off, Malal's whole deal is that he hates Chaos. So everyone with the Mark of Malal should have Preferred Enemy: Chaos
Secondly, Malal is all about the few against the many and about fighting injustice and fighting for the oppressed. This means that Malal's champions are few but on the whole are incredibly powerful.
This means that for an army dynamic, it will be based around a smaller model count army with bonuses if they're outnumbered.
For a codex:
HQ: Chaos Lord, Chaos Champion, Chaos Sorcerer, Humanoid Champion
Elites: Chaos Space Marines, Terminators, veteran renegades, Chosen, Avenger (sort of a Lone-Wolf model, his attack characteristic is equal to the amount of models in btb contact)
Troops: Mutants, Chaos thugs, renegades
Heavy Support: Land Raider, Leman Russ
Fast Attack: Renegade rough riders
I see it as being more of a hero-focused codex because Malal's champions are supposed to be so powerful. So I could see having a space wolves esque-dynamic with more than 2 HQ choices
Matt.Kingsley wrote:Yeah that would be a good start... Thanks!
I've also decided to add Daemons to it, as well as an ally rules so units from C:CSM and C:CD can be used.
Eh I wouldn't have ally rules for C:CD, and I would say that you should only be able to ally with non-marked units from C:CSM.
I dont see why everyone thinks Malal stuff should have Preferred Enemy: Chaos, personally, I think it should be Preferred Enemy: Everyone as the fluff just stated he and his followers hurt everyone.
Anyway, would this be good for a Lesser Daemon of Malal?
Special Rules: Fearless, Furious Charge, 5+ Invunerable save, Daemonic Deployment, Mark of Malal
Mark of Malal - The model gains the Preferred Enemy: Everyone USR. In addition, if there are any chaos models on the board that aren't on their side, they gain the Fleet USR.
Weapons: Scythes (Lesser Malal Daemons) - Close Combat Weapons Sharpened Scythes (Unit Champion) - Rending Close Combat Weapons
Options: May take a unit champion armed with Sharpened Scythes - 10pts
Special Rules: Fearless, Furious Charge, 4+ Invunerable save, Daemonic Deployment, Mark of Malal
Mark of Malal - The model gains the Preferred Enemy: Everyone USR. In addition, if there are any chaos models on the board that aren't on their side, they gain the Fleet USR.
Weapons: Greater Scythe - Rending (4+) Close Combat Weapons
Options: May take Wings for - 20pts
Also, if anyone can tell me some of the gifts in C:CD so I can add them to the Greater Daemon, please tell me (PM preferred in this case...)
Am I to understand he was retconned or something as it's the first time I hear about him? He doesn't even have an article on the 40K Lexicanum website!
It doesn't really seem like Malal would use squads of anything, let alone a whole army.
Prehaps every model in a unit is deployed seperately, but only the champion/sergent counts for kill points.
Overall, I'd think the whole army should be small and elite.
And for characters/hqs, don't give them the independent character rule, to force them to stay on their own.
Prehaps no transports? Instead let bikes/jump packs be an upgrade for alot of ideas.
An example Unit:
Spoiler:
Champions of Malal
Elite: 35 points
WSBS S T W I A LDSv 5 5 5 4 2 4 2 10 3+
Unit type: Infantry
Unit Size: 1 High Champion
Special Rules:
Fearless, Furious Charge, Feel no Pain, 6++ Invulnerable save, Mark of Malal, Independence
Independence - Each model in the unit is deployed seperately, only the High Champion awards a kill point when killed.
CCW + Boltpistol, Power Armour, Krak + Frag Grenades
Up to 4 Champions may be added for 35 points per model
Any model may take:
Reaping Scythe (Rending 4+) 10pts
Combi-wapon for 10pts
Terminator Armour for 20pts
Daemon Weapon of Malal for 30pts
If Terminator Armour is not taken:
Jump Pack for 15pts
Daemon Weapon of Malal - +D6 attacks, Rending(4+), +1 Initiative. On a roll of 1 for the additional attacks, all attacks are taken at Initiative 1 with no modifiers applying.
Am I to understand he was retconned or something as it's the first time I hear about him? He doesn't even have an article on the 40K Lexicanum website!
His entire representation in 40k is now limited to a squad of Chaos Space Marines.
Hey I would be glad to help out with the codex. Here is one for a troop
Malal Renegade 16pts
WS: 4 BS:4 S:4 T:4 W:1 I:4 A:1 LD:8 Sv +3
Malal Renegade Champion +15pts
WS: 5 BS:4 S:4 T:4 W:2 I:4 A:3 LD:10 Sv +3
Special Rules: Preferred Enemy (All); Fearless
Wargear: Boltgun; Bolt Pistol; Chainsword; Frag Grenades; Krak Grenades
If you take 5 models in a squad on model may purchase
Meltagun.......5pts
Plasma Gun.....10pts
Flamer.....free pts
If you take 10 models 1 model may take an additional special weapon from the above. Or you may select one of the following
Heavy Flamer ......10pts(C'mon if guard can hold them marines should
Missile Launcher.....Free
Plasma Cannon......10pts
Multi-melta.......Free
Heavy bolter.......free
Autocannon.....5pts
If you select the Malal Renagade Champion you may replace your bolter with
Combi Melta/Plasma/Flamer.....5pts
You may replace your Bolt Pistol/ Chainsword for:
Power Sword.....15pts
Champion of Malal 20pts (working on it)
Powerfist.....25pts
Plasma Pistol.....15pts
Unit Composition 5-15 Models
Dedicated Transport: You may select a transport (Rhino)
Sorry just trying to help make it then to 10 and you have a good point the problem will be creating a codex were you have low models and can still win.
Malal has a pure hatred of pretty much everything ordered right? being the ultimate scion of chaos, why not make an army that defies the standard way of building a force, have some of the troops coices incredibly powerful, but expensive and slim, and be able to take squads of hq's that are fairly weak but can by powerful ranged weapons?
necronsftw wrote:
Malal Renegade 16pts
...
Unit Composition 5-15 Models
They're called Sons of Malice. And if you had 15 in one spot, that's probably all of them.
Probably not, the writer made them to be such villain sue that they make my face hurt to think about them. If they deemed to continue writing that horrendous fluff, the SoM would get better.
Malal has a pure hatred of pretty much everything ordered right? being the ultimate scion of chaos, why not make an army that defies the standard way of building a force, have some of the troops coices incredibly powerful, but expensive and slim, and be able to take squads of hq's that are fairly weak but can by powerful ranged weapons?
The FOC is defined in each codex, just before the point costs. Why shouldn't he get a different one? Maybe with like 2 troops max and 5 elites or something crazy.
And to help in objective games, simply allow certain elite or fast attack or whatever hold objectives.
anyway, I've been thinking on how to do the mixed up force org and I have an idea! Probably won't work though...
I'm thinking something like this:
Malal is a renegade in all forms, and so shuns the usual ways of battle.
Each battle, before you choose your units that you will use, roll a D3 for each force organisation slot.
on a 2, 4 or 6, you add the corresponding number on to the slot, if a 1, 3 or 5 is rolled, you take that number off the slot (to a minimum of 1) e.g. A D3 is rolled for the HQ slot, the result is a 4, meaning instead of having up to 2 HQs, you can have 4.
Another idea is use the slot rules for a chaos spawn, or the slot rules for an IG techpriest engineseer.
hard to prove because most armies are built as lists before the game is even decided upon, its also not good for Take All Comers, ists as you cant count on the same army each time
just play Captain Darnath Lysander as your Chaos Lord
that would do it.
he has 2+/3++ with Ethernal Warrior and was lost in the warp for 100 yrs ...
plus Bolter Drill and Bolster Defences will make CSM really good
Dean889 wrote:Swap the number of elites and troops around (e.g. 6 elites and 3 troops), and make Malal's elites able to capture objectives, while troops can't.
That'll result in an elite based army, with troops only really used for fire support/tarpits.
Just out of curiosity, what is Malas preferred method of war?
By which i mean ranged/cc? What's the view on malal Psykers?
if he hates everyone i would think that malal Psyker powers would revolve around enemy morale and Ld modifiers rather than pillars fo flame or clouds of noxious gas etc.
I'd imagine the tactics of those who serve Malal would be similar to a certain species of Wasps when attacking beehives. Divert most of the enemies attention to a few elite warriors that hold them in close combat, then a few other units go in and destroy the leadership whether it be from a distance or close up, though I think close up would be preferred to make the kill seem as if it were on a more personal level. Thus devastating troop morale and causing utter chaos.
So from that I think Malal would prefer close combat though I'm pretty sure he'd want each of his exalted troops to excel at whatever they are most skilled at, whether it be cc or shooting.
As for psykers, I wouldn't imagine that he wouldn't have a problem with them but I'd guess that they would be fairly rare but I do agree as to what they should target, morale and Leadership. However I think they would also be able to cause the enemy to attack themselves or their HQ choices.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Also I think this may help a bit.
Wargear:
Lasgun
Laspistol
Close Combat Weapon
Flak Armour
Frag Grenades
Special Rules:
Attachable Squad
This squad follows all the rules for Independent Characters. They must stay in Coherency with themselves as well as the squad they are joined to. Unnoticed
Malal doesn't fully notice his lesser servants
At the start of each game turn, roll a d6 for each squad with this rule. On a 5 or 6, the squad gains the Mark of Malal rule.
Squads with an Aspiring Cultist Champ can re-roll failed results Mark of Malal (Aspiring Cultist Champ only)
Options:
-May replace Lasgun with:
--Flamer.........................5pts
--Plasma Gun..................15pts
--Melta Gun....................10pts
--Heavy Flamer................20pts
-Every 2 Chaos Cultists In the Squad may replace their Lasguns with:
--Heavy Bolter.................10pts
--Mortar..........................5pts
--Lascannon....................20pts
--Autocannon.................10pts
--Missile Launcher............15pts
-1 Cultist May take:
--A Vox-caster................5pts
--Medi-pack....................30pts
-The entire squad may have krak grenades for 5pts
-1 Chaos Cultist may be upgraded to an Aspiring Cultist Champ for 10pts
-They may take Melta Bombs for 5pts
-They may replace their close combat weapon with:
--Power Weapon.............15pts
--Lightning Claw...............15pts
--Power Fist....................25pts
-May replace Laspistol with:
--Bolt Pistol.....................5pts
--Plasma Pistol.................15pts
--Hand Flamer.................5pts
--Infernus Pistol...............10pts
-May replace lasgun with a Boltgun for 5pts
-May take Carapace Armour for 5pts
So far I got to admit I kinda like what I see for the most part. However does chaos have access to the infernus pistol? I always thought that was solely an Imperium item.
Also since Malal's number is 11, i think it'd be appropriate for some unit along the line to have a max size of 11. Perhaps the Doomed Ones who are his favored?
Well, the point of Malal is to have a few powerful characters. perhaps the amount of units you've permitted to have taken is a little much, but I'd imagine otherwise it's fine.
Wargear:
2 rending close combat weapons (Champion has 4+ rending, rest have 6)
power armour
frag + krak grenades
Special Rules:
Fearless
5+ invo save
Mark of Malal
Daemonkin
At the beginning of each game, after deployment, roll a D6 on the table below
1-Scouts
2-furious charge
3-Fleet
4-Feel no Pain
5-Venom-Gains poisoned 4+ weapons and a shooting attack with the following profile:
Range-6" Str-3 AP-0 Type-Assault 1, Poisoned 4+
6-Power Weapons-The posessed have rending power weapons that follow all the normal rules
Sounds like the minimum number of cltist squads you can have is 10, ie you HAVE to have 10 in ur list, was this an oversight or is there a purpose for it? If there is a Purpose why not make the number 11 rather than 10 cause of his "ima gotta have ma speshal number" thing that most of the chaos gods do???
just food for thought
other wise i think all this stuff is great
love it how youve kicked the FOC, However you need to mention that the troops choice even though it doesnt take up any FOC slots still fills out the required 2 troops
Loving the Marines, can see myself fielding entire armies of these puppies
EDIT
i think that the possessed champ could do with a points hike. with potential I5 S5 4+ rending hes a bit nuts (with furious charge)
and even with the 4+ reding on its own hes a bit cheap at 32? 33? points
Worshippers In other words, weak cultists you worship malal fully (unit size of 11) and are psykers. similar to the psyker battle squads but more BA (Not blood anges lol)
I'm think maybe something along the lines of this for another psychic power: Range: 12" Str: 4+D6AP: 4 Type: AssualtW*, Ignores Invunerable Saves** *Number os Shots=Number of Worshippers alive x 2 **Ignores ALL invunerable saves
way to OP, 11 s4 ap4 shots that could cause leadership and ignore invulnerable? this is simoultaneously an orc tau eldar guard and chaos daemons killer, i mean look at the stats, daemon troops dont have armour so that would butcher them, guard, toast, tau, toas, eldar, toast, orks, toast....... drop the template and the fear and your getting somewhere
sounds good.... ish, still think a max of s8 is a bt much, why not allowing both t and s to go up by D3, rolled once and that roll applies to both stats and lasts until the start of the players next turn?
Automatically Appended Next Post: and make them base s3
^
that plan failed...
anyway, here is the the upgraded soulstorm!
Range: Unlinited Str: W* AP: 3 Type: Assault 1, Causes Fear**, Barrage
*The Strength is the same as the number of worshippers left. If there are 11 worshippers, then the weapon becomes AP: 2
**before the target unit does their pinning test, they need to take a morale check as if they took 25% casualties. If failed, the imediatly fall back
Automatically Appended Next Post: and im not sure about unlimited range tbh i mean its epic, but unnessecary, 36 or 48 would be plenty for a weapon like that.
I think that you should work on ur Elites next
one of em i reckon should be like a really skilled close combat squad, not in termy armour but high i and ws?
Those should probably be the Doomed Ones, it would make sense, those exalted above their fellow marines. I think it would also be pretty fitting if the whole squad could have access to power weapons, though it would be expensive, it would work pretty well fluff-wise with Malal. And definitely have the aspiring champion/equivalent have access to duel lightning claws.
Would have to agree, wanted to say it but thought it might have been OP but then again i guess termies all have power weapons so it all evens out doesnt it?
I'd say also no access to power fists or the like (as in weapons that bump initiative down to one), it'd take away from the point of them having a high initiative.
OOO haven' you guys been busy!
Anyway, because dakka has been helping so much with the fandex, the 'final' version will have your usernames in the creits, wadda you think?
Anyway, these ideas are great for a second elite unit!
Wait, have you guys forgotten about the possessed already?
hows about you buy them as a squad but when the game starts its actually a goup of IC's, thus you could join a couple onto a MalalCSM ic squad for some extra melee meaty
possibly the most over powered thing you can give to a terminator
"Your trying to tell me that that thing hits me first, on threes, and wounds me on twos? No way man, tell you what ill shoot it to bits, oh wait its got a 2+ armour save"
lol sos man i just had to put my foot down there, but to be fair im not the one making this dex and i wont hold it against you if you ignore me and give him s6 weps
anyhoo
stormshields or equivalent? I think its fitting
Of course they'll have stormshields
And if I do str 6 power weapons, they'll be two handed and - 1 initiative
And I'll make it so you can't take it with termie armour
Ok i can live with that, although they will feel incredibly overpowered, why not just give them the option of buying power weapons? make it a 15 pt unit and you can just buy the power weapons for 15, that way you can field more of them if you dont want the power weapons, if your playing against the likes of orks or kroot for instance
mm, but for 15pts, we are getting a chaos marine with BETTER leadership, Ws and I
I say 18-20. Sorry! but they are essentially Cosen -infiltrate + better Ws and I
I play a "Malal" chaos marine army so I'm probably a bit biased but for me when I read this:" Malal was the embodiment of Chaos' indiscriminate and anarchic tendency toward destruction, even of itself and its own agents. The nature of Malal's/Malice's powers is parasitic, as the Renegade God grows in power only when the other Ruinous Powers do." I see Malal's nature as a very visceral description that represents an aspect present in all Chaos followers but personified by him.
When I read the description I tended to think this sounds alot like how chaos dreadnoughts and enhanced warriors play while fitting into the nature of how chaos spawn come into existence. Chaos Dreadnoughts and Chaos Spawn are those scraps of chaos made from the failures of those who serve the ruinous powers and really play into Malal's parasitic nature where upon Malal only ascends in power by climbing on the corpses of those seeking power from the other ruinous powers. Fabius Biles' enhanced warrior in much the same way represent this chaotic demand for power and Chaos' willingness to risk self destruction for more power.
The old description for Chaos Undivided said it represent not just an evenly split allegiance with the big 4 chaos gods, but could represent allegiance to Chaos in general or the allegiance to a lesser power. With that regard Malal is a lesser power, one that shuns the others. To elevate Malal from that catch all category to proper god hood, I think we should really see his followers portrayed as a variation of the most strictly undivided units. For example, his lesser daemons might just be a variation of Fury's with a more Pterodactyl shaped head. Malal's followers are thus uber-undivided and those discontent with their respective Chaos deity.
This thread jumps on the "Kaleb Daark" concept of how Malal should be represented, which I think is a bit conceptually weak. The single great warrior works as a special character not so much a theme to define a codex.
Some philosphical points:
Vladsimpaler wrote:OK. First off, Malal's whole deal is that he hates Chaos. So everyone with the Mark of Malal should have Preferred Enemy: Chaos
Malal doesn't hate Chaos, far from it. Malal's form of Chaos is the most indiscriminate. The other ruinous power's can at least find time to cooperate, Malal wouldn't make that distinction and just fight who it felt like.
If there is a story in the 40k Chaos mythos that I think best reflects the tendencies of Malal's followers and parallels the fantasy representation, such a "Kaleb Daark" I think its some of the versions of the story of Cypher and the Fallen Angels. Fighting for and agianst chaos as he chooses, after fighting a practically self destructive fight in the pursuit of power.
If I wrote a story about a follower of Malal it would be something of two brothers in arms who fought and slaughterd for Chaos and upon climbing the mountain top and demanding power from chaos, out of the ether a voice commands them to kill each other and then themself to attain an immortal form. Where upon they both die, becoming a daemon weapon and a daemon prince who are in a constant struggle for control that results in them switching between the daemonic soul possessing the sword and the daemon prince itself. It kinda reflects the notion of an Ouroboros. On the tabletop they'd be a special character with two different statlines and two different rules for the daemon weapon, where each turn you roll to see if the daemon weapon consumes the prince to regain control.
I think the nature of Malal is one where you can make the arguement that with the acception of the strictest followers a large number of Malal's followers don't necessarily realize what they're worshipping and those very few who do don't necessarily share that fact for fear of repercusions from the greater powers.
Im thinking that the Possessed need to have an enhancement table that is completely whack, but still quite good. Stuff that you wouldnt usually expect. Like insetad of giving them +1 initiative why not reduce the Initiative of anyone in comabt witht hem by 1? not only does it help the possessed but if you happen to have somone else in combat with your foe, (Ie one of those epic IC troops units) then itll help him/them as well
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