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Post by: nvillacci
This is news to me...It is very interesting to me that this store is also 15 minutes from my residence.
According to the post, GW will no longer allow its in-store customers to use ANY other companies products in the store. This means, bases, non-wargaming toys, bits and pieces, etc. So we are talking anything besides GW, Greenstuff or Plasticard and you cannot use it and will be asked to leave.
Only greenstuff sculpts and plastic card will be allowed in store, besides the official GW products. (also applies to non-existant models that GW does not make, you are stuck greenstuffing and plasticarding that Mycetic Spore).
I find it very weird since many GW employees not only use third-party models and components for their personal armies but embrace them as part of the modeling hobby, but now they are forced to tell customers if its not our product you cant use it in store.
http://secondsphere.org/index.php/topic,127939.0.html
Nick
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Post by: SagesStone
I'm not really all that surprised as it's a form of free advertisement for them normally anyway.
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Post by: Doctor Optimal
This is sad (especially given their success in many areas of driving FLGSes out of business, making themselves the only public places to play), but well within their privilege, and given the company it's hardly surprising.
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Post by: Delephont
This isn't really news, and to be fair, it makes perfect sense. GW Stores are first and foremost, retail outlets. They understand that pushing the "hobby", as it were, means they have a vehicle to make more sales....but other than that, its just a shop!
That you can't proxy items from other companies that they don't make is just stupid, why write these characters or units into your army lists if people can't use them.....not everyone can "green stuff" like a pro, and it's not always in keeping with the feel of the game if you simply proxy in a miniature that has, at best, a slight similarity to the actual unit or character....
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Post by: Happygrunt
I have a feeling that some people will just look the other way for small things like heads or bases...
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Post by: Brother SRM
I misread this at first and thought GW wouldn't let stores sell non-GW product if they were selling GW stuff; glad I was wrong!
This doesn't surprise me at all, really. Even so, if I have a shoulderpad on a Space Marine from Scibor or whatever I doubt anybody's going to notice.
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Post by: Absolutionis
I'm often told that the main reason this was implemented was so that GW can take photographs of your models in tournaments for promotional purposes without advertising or paying royalties to other companies.
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Post by: SoloFalcon1138
Would you be peeved if a local McDonalds posted a sign reading that you couldn't take Whoppers into their stores? They are in retail, and they want to make money. They don;t want to here people whining about the cost of an expensive hobby and finding alternate models to fill the gaps.
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Post by: Zefig
I thought this might happen after all that Chapterhouse business started up.
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Post by: nkelsch
Not surprised. I see nothing wrong with it.
I don't take my Burger King Burger and eat it in McDonalds simply because both are restaurants.
It is terrible for customers to come into a store to watch games and then say 'WOW those models are cool... where can I buy them?' only to get the answer, GW doesn't sell or make those models.
It has happened more than once on my orks with the multiple types of heads out there. People always want to know where they can buy them. And I totally understand and accept GW's issue with it. So I use my stock GW komamndos when gaming at GW instead of my Microart or MaxMini Ork products.
People thing they have a right or some sort of freedom to game and use whatever they want... you do just not in GW stores which their only function is to sell and promote ONLY GW products.
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Post by: streamdragon
SoloFalcon1138 wrote:Would you be peeved if a local McDonalds posted a sign reading that you couldn't take Whoppers into their stores? They are in retail, and they want to make money. They don;t want to here people whining about the cost of an expensive hobby and finding alternate models to fill the gaps.
When they actually make a model for every unit in their army books, I will agree whole heartedly with this sentiment. But until I get TWC, Tervigons, TyranoFexes (still hate that stupid name) or what have you, it just makes no sense. And you can say "Just convert / green stuff it!" but that doesn't fly either. Not everyone has the time, skill, money, desire and/or physical ability to do so. Some of us would rather just play. Automatically Appended Next Post: nkelsch wrote:It is terrible for customers to come into a store to watch games and then say 'WOW those models are cool... where can I buy them?' only to get the answer, GW doesn't sell or make those models.
So you don't want people using scratch built models then? After all, " GW doesn't sell or make those models" either.
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Post by: Carlovonsexron
This isnt akin to restaurants so much as it akin to saying you cant wear cloths of one brand into another brands store, IMO. Which is rather ridiculous - but there's no real reason to ever go into a GW store if you have FLGS that sells the stuff at a 20% discount anyway
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Post by: Doctor Optimal
Carlovonsexron wrote:This isnt akin to restaurants so much as it akin to saying you cant wear cloths of one brand into another brands store, IMO. Which is rather ridiculous - but there's no real reason to ever go into a GW store if you have FLGS that sells the stuff at a 20% discount anyway
+1. Support your FLGSes if you still have them.
I actually find that GW retail stores provide a service, though: they draw off the 12 year olds.
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Post by: ProtoClone
I can see both sides of this. On one hand, it is advertising for what ever company you used in that model. On the other hand, what are people supposed to do when the model doesn't reflect the optional rules?
Yes it does reflect badly on GW to say "Well, GW doesn't make these models, you have to get them somewhere else". Although that seems to be a position GW is going to face no matter what if they keep doing what they are doing.
If you don't provide the model, or a way to make the model, people will find a way to get what they want.
But like someone suggested, I don't see this being a rule strictly followed.
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Post by: biccat
nkelsch wrote:I don't take my Burger King Burger and eat it in McDonalds simply because both are restaurants.
I've taken BK fries into a McD's before, and then ordered food from McD's. They don't seem to have a problem with it.
(do not open if easily offended)
Since I don't play at a GW, this won't affect me much. But it does seem like a heavy handed position for GW to take. Third party bits sellers that suppliment GW's products don't take away from the hobby, they add to it, making people more likely to buy GW products.
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Post by: Doctor Optimal
Absolutionis wrote:I'm often told that the main reason this was implemented was so that GW can take photographs of your models in tournaments for promotional purposes without advertising or paying royalties to other companies.
I wonder if Right Guard ever got their consideration. 
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Post by: Ratius
Can I still use these? 
963
Post by: Mannahnin
They've had this policy in the past. It seems to come and go with the seasons, like the changing of the leaves.
In many cases alternate bits can easily go unnoticed or be claimed to be parts from old models (there's close to 30 years of them now, of course, including WHFB), scratchbuilds or personal re-sculpts. Are they going to scratch the paint off to check? They had better not try.
The degree to which it's actually enforced, as always, will come down to the local store staff. I'm not sure how they're going to have the time to monitor games and look out for this stuff given the general move to reduced manpower at stores, including many stores only having one staffer on at a time.
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Post by: wilycoyote
Bottom line, as it has been for years for GW, it is no longer a hobby it is business - despite the honorific Hobby Manager rather than salesman.
Remember, when you used to be positively encouraged to convert, kitbash and sculpt your own - ask any Ork player in that long wait after third edition - and WD often included plans for you. Ahhhh.......
Fair enough it is their store, but its a shame some of the great modelling talent will no longer be on show, as to my mind that was one of the great free adverts for the product.
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Post by: Kanluwen
ProtoClone wrote:I can see both sides of this. On one hand, it is advertising for what ever company you used in that model. On the other hand, what are people supposed to do when the original sculpt sucks or the model doesn't reflect the optional rules?
I think it also comes from the whole debacle a few months back where 'What's New Today' apparently identified a generic resin base(which the owner/submitter had said was a GW base with work done using the Citadel Basing Kit) as a 'great custom job using the Citadel Basing Kit' when in reality it was a Micro Arts Studio base.
That kind of thing makes GW look bad, even if there's no malice/ignorance going on and you're just taking someone at face value.
If you don't provide the model, or a way to make the model, people will find a way to get what they want.
And what if the model exists but people think it's "too expensive"?
Because more often than not, let's face it, that's what the proxy brigade are trying to get around.
But like someone suggested, I don't see this being a rule strictly followed.
I don't see it being followed most of the time. But when they know a tournament that will be photographed is coming, you can bet it'll start being enforced.
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Post by: HiddenPower
I dont find any issue with GW doing this; however, with this I think its time for GW to officially stop claiming its a hobby.
It is pure bussiness now. People walking in are no longer 'hobbyists or players' we are now walking recepticles for our wallets. :(
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Post by: Necanor
biccat wrote:nkelsch wrote:I don't take my Burger King Burger and eat it in McDonalds simply because both are restaurants.
I've taken BK fries into a McD's before, and then ordered food from McD's. They don't seem to have a problem with it.
(do not open if easily offended)
Since I don't play at a GW, this won't affect me much. But it does seem like a heavy handed position for GW to take. Third party bits sellers that suppliment GW's products don't take away from the hobby, they add to it, making people more likely to buy GW products.
They probably did not notice. I once did so and was banned from the restaurant.
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Post by: ProtoClone
If you don't provide the model, or a way to make the model, people will find a way to get what they want.
And what if the model exists but people think it's "too expensive"?
Because more often than not, let's face it, that's what the proxy brigade are trying to get around.
Good point. What if you can proxy the model for cheaper then the actual model?
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Post by: Necanor
I am not suprised, but I do not think, that GW stores will not let you use other companie`s heads or bases. Strangely, you are aloud to use other dice and glue, but not other colours.
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Post by: ProtoClone
Necanor wrote:biccat wrote:nkelsch wrote:I don't take my Burger King Burger and eat it in McDonalds simply because both are restaurants.
I've taken BK fries into a McD's before, and then ordered food from McD's. They don't seem to have a problem with it.
(do not open if easily offended)
Since I don't play at a GW, this won't affect me much. But it does seem like a heavy handed position for GW to take. Third party bits sellers that suppliment GW's products don't take away from the hobby, they add to it, making people more likely to buy GW products.
They probably did not notice. I once did so and was banned from the restaurant.
Once when I worked at McDonald's I wore a Wendy's work shirt, friend gave it to me, in to pick up my paycheck. They asked me what I was doing and I told them I was picking up my paycheck...they tried to tell me I couldn't wear the shirt and I told them to as long as I wasn't coming to work, there isn't a problem. I don't know if that is true but they backed off of it and never bothered me about it again.
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Post by: Fifty
I have GW models that are in excess of 25 years old. I'd love to see them try and work out what is and is not GW amongst what I own!
On the other hand, I do not disagree with the policy anyway.
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Post by: Agamemnon2
I'm continually surprised GW lets me play with GW models from the 80s and 90s. If they had an ounce of sense in their thick heads, they'd ban THOSE.
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Post by: Eilif
Someone want to tell me why we all seem to be accepting this as the gospel truth? At this point it's
One person, recounting
One unamed manager at
One unnamed store, and has been reported from GW on
Zero miniatures news websites.
Not saying it might not be the truth, but forgive me for waiting for more confirmation before I comment on this as new policy. I could be wrong, but it sounds like one manager saying something that may or may not be entirely true.
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Post by: Solorg
I don't see a problem here. It's their store - and usually table space is very limited. So I can't blame them for only wanting GW in the GW store. What if someone comes in and notices me playing with some cool models - and they're from Reaper - and then that person is impressed with them, leaves, and goes to buy them online?
I went into a little gamestore with my friends and I couldn't believe that, right in front of the staff, they were going through the books, finding the ones they liked, and then bragging about how they'd just go online later and buy them at a fraction of the cost. To me, that is absolutely rude.
Anyway, I certainly have non-GW in my collection. But unless your collection is only 10% GW I think it isn't a big deal for you to leave your non-GW at home when you go to play in their store. I mean, we all have fun playing their games. It's the highpoint of my week, usually. I don't mind making a gesture like this in return.
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Post by: terranarc
I feel like the big mac in burgerking metaphor is just irrelevant. Why? Eating a sandwich at a restaurant (lol... if you can call it that) is not the same as pulling out armies of a hobby that took alot of money, time and blood to make to have fun with. I probably won't ever go to any GW store that actually reinforces this rule.
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Post by: krazynadechukr
nvillacci wrote:This is news to me...
According to the post, GW will no longer allow its in-store customers to use ANY other companies products in the store. This means, bases, non-wargaming toys, bits and pieces, etc. So we are talking anything besides GW, Greenstuff or Plasticard and you cannot use it and will be asked to leave.
Really? News to you? I've done GW gaming since 1995, and it has always been that way as long as I can remember.... I do remember a rule of 85% gw pure & 15% scratch built from anything else.....Maybe because I games at the GW Battle Bunker and not a small little GW location (non-battle bunker).
Heck, I remember a tourny where the guy used 100% GW minis, converted them into beautiful Aliens Colonial marine army, but because of intellectual property rights (?) or something, he was unable to enter games!
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Post by: mikhaila
First thing that would be nice is to see some written policy stating this. Until I see something like that, or talk to someone at GW that confirms it, I tend to take these things with a grain of salt.
After all, it falls into the catagory of "A reshirt said....".
I can understand where they are coming from with some of it. Hard to allow things like Chapterhouse kits in your stores when you're involved with a lawsuit with them. And it does take sales away from them, when someone is explaining how to make his cool models by not buying GW models.
I'm less convinced on things like MAS or other companies bases. You buy the base from GW, then don't use it and replace with a resin base. Far different than not buying a GW model to use one from AOW, or a McFarlane Dragon, etc.
I'll have to give someone a call and see what the exact policy is.
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Post by: Captain Jack
Hmmm, I really don't know whether to believe this story or not. Considering the author I would take it with a large pinch of salt. What the store has had enough of is people coming in with poorly sculpted mass produced pads and trying to promote that seller, hmm I wonder what company that could be? At the end of the day it's GWs store and they make the rules, and if you don't like it you don't have to shop there.
I would be more sure that the manager has had enough of one section of customers taking liberal advantage of their good will and has moved to defuse the situation. I would be very surprised if the situation continued once that section of the community gets the message.
Don't take this the wrong way, but I have noticed that a lot of Americans and the younger section of the Brit gamers do expect all of their models to be dropped into their lap by GW. The old spirit of making your own kitbashes or conversions aeems to be dying off, I am not saying that its right but its not as wrong as some of the more vocal would claim.
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Post by: Agamemnon2
Solorg wrote:I don't see a problem here. It's their store - and usually table space is very limited. So I can't blame them for only wanting GW in the GW store. What if someone comes in and notices me playing with some cool models - and they're from Reaper - and then that person is impressed with them, leaves, and goes to buy them online?
For this same reason, it makes no reason at all for me to get away with playing my Squats there. I tell anyone who asks that I got them from ebay, I make no secret of the fact that I prime them using non- GW primer and so on. If they wanted to be consistent and to eliminate "lost sales", they must ban the use of any and all miniatures not currently available from GW.
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Post by: krazynadechukr
I think it is good policy.
If GW starts allowing people to use other game miniatures, and allows a much broader use of stand ins & scratch builds, we will start seeing hodge podge collections of minis, mixing 25mm, 28mm, 30mm and different details in the minis, heroscape minis being used, toy soldiers, and "count as" will be rampant too, and so on....
This past weekend I saw a kid that had 9 killa kans made from toilet paper rolls and popsicle sticks in a GW store.
I saw someone using a spawn action figure as a greater daemon!
Ridiculous.
As far as bases or questions from GW emps, "I sculpted it myself." Get that mantra down folks. 
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Post by: Doctor Optimal
krazynadechukr wrote:This past weekend I saw a kid that had 9 killa kans made from toilet paper rolls and popsicle sticks in a GW store.
Ridiculous.
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Post by: Kirasu
Reason #239 to never play at a GW store.. Go to an independent
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Post by: MagickalMemories
I can't open the link from work, so forgive me if this is discussed.
I understand them blocking other company's minis, etc. I even support them on that.
Bases, though? That's just freaking stupid. If I've got Dragon Forge bases on my models. and they want to not let me game there because of it, that's just crap.
I mean, it's not like GW is in competition with resin base manufacturers.
:eye roll:
Eric
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Post by: krazynadechukr
Is it coming to this?
Hope not.
I agree with GW to keep out non-gw minis....
1
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Post by: Savnock
Wait, I thought this was already GW retail policy, and had been for some time?
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Post by: Doctor Optimal
krazynadechukr wrote:
I can only assume you've mistakenly uploaded the wrong picture. You spoke about something that was "crap" but you've uploaded a pretty good hand-made cardboard killer kan.
Please look into this oversight on your part and report back.
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Post by: Grundz
Welcome to the fallout from chapterhouse
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Post by: krazynadechukr
Savnock wrote:Wait, I thought this was already GW retail policy, and had been for some time?
Yes. Yes it is, and was, and still is....
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Post by: Bloodwin
Hasn't this come up before? This kind of thing only matters if you do most of your gaming in your local GW store, which I've never done. I think that in previous threads it was highlighted that its the norm to play more in stores in the US than it is in the UK. I think it is also an attempt to move on people who are always playing in the store and not buying stuff. They cant get little Timmy to take up the hobby and trap his parents if skinflint Fred is taking up the gaming table and ofc there is the intimidation factor of lots of bigger kids putting off parents. I doubt it has much to do with the Chapterhouse stuff specifically but there is a pervading attitude to 3rd party companies products. Yes I know GW cause some of the issues with their lack of products but ultimately the tables are there to introduce new players and keep paying customers coming back. I doubt any manager would give customers much grief if they regularly drop a decent wadge of cash in there each month. Area managers are a different beast altogether, you need to be a bit driven to go for that job and it's the driven sorts that tend the have the 'eff you' attitude.
I think this is a balance thing, they dont want stores to be full of low income older kids who take up space and put people off coming in the shop and they dont want to be a glorified babysitting service for little Timmys everywhere. But yeah how much of your hobby relies on being able to game in a GW store? If it's a lot then you have to make a choice otherwise it's a free for all.
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Post by: Frazzled
terranarc wrote:I feel like the big mac in burgerking metaphor is just irrelevant. Why? Eating a sandwich at a restaurant (lol... if you can call it that) is not the same as pulling out armies of a hobby that took alot of money, time and blood to make to have fun with. I probably won't ever go to any GW store that actually reinforces this rule.
Its further less relevant in that, to bring in BK fries, I would have had to already purchase MD fries and assumed additional cost on top of that. Its stupid as what converter's are really saying is, "I have this vision thing and I am willing to spend more money on this personal vision thing, but you will get your cut, and further, I shall demonstrate how one can tailor their items for something truly different EVEN WITH YOUR CRAPPY MINIS."
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Post by: krazynadechukr
Grundz wrote:Welcome to the fallout from chapterhouse
Not really a thing to do with chapterhouse....
GW has had this policy for years....
Maybe it came around again, as a reminder, because too many people are using other minis from other lines and it is getting rampant...
Chapterhouse may have been the last straw....
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Post by: Frazzled
krazynadechukr wrote:Is it coming to this?
Hope not.
I agree with GW to keep out non-gw minis....
You know with some proper paint and grubbins that would look proppa right orky!
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Post by: krazynadechukr
I can only assume you've mistakenly uploaded the wrong picture. You spoke about something that was "crap" but you've uploaded a pretty good hand-made cardboard killer kan.
Please look into this oversight on your part and report back.
If you want to play your beautifully painted, 2k, $500+ GW army with someone who has spent $17.93 on cardboard, glue, and craft product and didn't bother to even paint it or add GW bits, go ahead...
OOOH, better yet, here is a guy who color copied space marines and uses them in a game!
1
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Post by: Doctor Optimal
krazynadechukr wrote:
If you want to play your beautifully painted, 2k, $500+ GW army with someone who has spent $17.93 on cardboard, glue, and craft product and didn't bother to even paint it or add GW bits, go ahead...
Yes, how dare those poors think they can share our hobby.
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Post by: MeanGreenStompa
It is a variable.
If some player arrives at the store with several $k of imperial guard that he's put pig iron heads on to be told that 'only gw stuff is allowed on the shop tables' then he should feel free to raise a serious amount of noise about it.
If an ork player shows up with his lovingly converted ww2 model battlewagons and is told the same, he too should kick ass and show no mercy.
If a guy arrives with a box of VOID miniatures and proceeds to inform the staff he's going to use them as his new grey knight army (or any army really) then calling him out is fair play.
I mean, just wtf are tyranid players supposed to do for sporemines? Buy a drop pod and smother it in greenstuff?
Ork players went years and years with a very patchy miniature range. Many of them invested hundreds of hours in building vehicles that until recently took pride of place in GW store windows and even the pages of White Dwarf.
I can't see these talents being 'shown the door' unless by a very unskilled and foolish employee.
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Post by: Regnak
SoloFalcon1138 wrote:Would you be peeved if a local McDonalds posted a sign reading that you couldn't take Whoppers into their stores? They are in retail, and they want to make money. They don;t want to here people whining about the cost of an expensive hobby and finding alternate models to fill the gaps.
But if I have a GW/ FW model but another companies base, using your logic that would be more like:
1) Going into McDonalds and buying a meal.
2) After purchasing this meal and taking it to my table I get out a KFC BBQ sauce from my coat pocket and put the contents on my burger.
I should then be asked to leave. As I may have purchased the main product the store sells but I have added a little something that mades it different and chose not to use the McDonalds version of BBQ sauce.
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Post by: oni
Happygrunt wrote:I have a feeling that some people will just look the other way for small things like heads or bases...
I agree with this. It's a stupid rule that is going to be tough to enforce and I assume most will not even care.
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Post by: Doctor Optimal
oni wrote:Happygrunt wrote:I have a feeling that some people will just look the other way for small things like heads or bases...
I agree with this. It's a stupid rule that is going to be tough to enforce and I assume most will not even care.
It's the mere creation of the rule that's telling: It shows what GW thinks of their "followers" (and GW's official term for us is, itself, telling: we aren't "Hobbyists" to be impressed by the quality of the models or "Customers" who allow their continued existence, we're "followers" and our support is assumed).
Arrogant feth-heads.
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Post by: daedalus
I've only ever had the pleasure of going into a GW store once. You WOULD NOT BELIEVE the amount of injustice I suffered there under they're tyrannical grasp. First, they were friendly to me, not pushy, and when they saw that I was just quickly grabbing some basing and stuff and I mentioned we were up there for Adepticon, they had the SHEER AUDACITY to politely invite us back later for more gaming assuming we weren't wiped out after the tournament. Also our Eldar player forgot his copy of the Nightspinner rules, and one of the guys there gave him a copy of the WD with it in it. For free! Can you imagine!
Hats off to the guys in Downer's Grove. If all GWs were like that, I wouldn't mind only being allowed to use GW stuff. In reality though, all we have in STL is FLGS, which are usually awesome and always indifferent to what you're playing with.
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Post by: MeanGreenStompa
Go look at Kr00za's work, or Lemmingspawn, or Teek or Jamsessionein.
Google the Kult of Speed by George Dellapina.
You telling me those guys are going to be turned away? I don't think so. I'd imagine this is a response to soda can drop pods and lego men terminators...
At least I'd hope that was it.
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Post by: krazynadechukr
Doctor Optimal wrote:krazynadechukr wrote:
If you want to play your beautifully painted, 2k, $500+ GW army with someone who has spent $17.93 on cardboard, glue, and craft product and didn't bother to even paint it or add GW bits, go ahead...
Yes, how dare those poors think they can share our hobby.
So if a guy in a pinto shows up at the race track, to race you and others in proper race cars, it doesn't insult you or the hobby?
I have no problem with the home made stuff, as long as it stays home. Play at your home if you want to mix minis and scratch build stuff.
By the way, the guy was in his 30's, and the whole ork army was scratch built from paper, cardboard, etc.... There were some ork minis he bought from yard sales though..... Poor is one thing, cheap is another.....
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Post by: nvillacci
I think the case in point was that a poor player was using GW IG models and had Pig Iron heads on them.
At that point a higher up noticed, and said "No more!".
I can be understanding if a customer is using another companies orks in a GW game... but when you are talking about conversion kits (heads, weapons, bases) that are used on GW models, I think that is just petty. GW received their money, they should be happy.
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Post by: Doctor Optimal
krazynadechukr wrote: the whole ork army was scratch built from paper, cardboard, etc.... There were some ork minis he bought from yard sales though.....
How dare those modelers think they can share our hobby.
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Post by: biccat
Doctor Optimal wrote:I can only assume you've mistakenly uploaded the wrong picture. You spoke about something that was "crap" but you've uploaded a pretty good hand-made cardboard killer kan.
That's a killa kan? Looks like a deffkopta.
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Post by: MeanGreenStompa
krazynadechukr wrote:
So if a guy in a pinto shows up at the race track, to race you and others in proper race cars, it doesn't insult you or the hobby?
I have no problem with the home made stuff, as long as it stays home. Play at your home if you want to mix minis and scratch build stuff.
The glue, stop sniffing it. I would be honoured to have stuff of this quality across the board from me.
http://www.dakkadakka.com/gallery/images-5845-4732_Teek%27s%20Trukks%2C%20WIP.html
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/213195.page
http://www.dakkadakka.com/gallery/42550-SupaSteamStompa%20mk%20II.html
http://www.the-waaagh.com/forums/?showtopic=31346&st=160
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Post by: Polonius
As has been said, this isn't exactly a publish policy.
Even if it were, it's better have the official policy be draconian, and than allow managers to allow certain bits on a case by case basis.
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Post by: George Spiggott
Does anyone else remember those bright yellow toy truck Battle wagons in White Dwarf?
Are they included in this moratorium?
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Post by: Scott-S6
Has anyone actually got a first hand report of this happening anywhere except the one place mentioned in the link?
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Post by: Polonius
Scott-S6 wrote:Has anyone actually got a first hand report of this happening anywhere except the one place mentioned in the link?
No, and I think that's telling.
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Post by: Grundz
MeanGreenStompa wrote:
The glue, stop sniffing it. I would be honoured to have stuff of this quality across the board from me.
And that is the point, things can be done "right" and done "poorly"
Elitist douches want everything done "their" way, when a reasonable person would let anyone try out an army/units a few times with some stand-ins before they drop tons of cash picking up the minis.
Having read the gist of this "release", It is /not/ GW's previous policy on 3rd party parts, basically if you work at an official GW store and allow models with unofficial parts to be used, at all, be sure to have your resume up to date.
It is a far cry from the previous %age GW parts thing, and I can see it being a direct response to 3rd party part availability.
42123
Post by: redeyed
I also heard that some GW managers wont allow older GW models to be used for example:
The old "sexy" metal daemonettes cannot be used as they are not current edition only the plastics....
I can understand not allowing models from other companies, but not allowing your own models that still fulfil all the criteria (ie. same size, same base, same look etc) is silly.
Even with all that as I said banning other companies models fair enough, but not allowing any converted bases/pads etc is to extreme!
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Post by: nvillacci
I know for fact it is policy at GW Grapevine Mills in Texas.
In the thread I posted, they also confirmed it in an Australian store as well.
I guess you guys can be asked around at the other local GW stores to confirm if you want.
18124
Post by: R3con
GWS kindly solved this problem for me. They closed all the GWS stores in the area. And the LFGS could care less how modified my minis are.
I have Scribor Heads and Shields, and some Chapter House Shoulder Pads...I fail to see how those cost GWS any money.
21499
Post by: Mr. Burning
100% sounds pretty anal even by GW standards.
I do wonder if they are releasing the hounds early, what with third party product being in vogue and the Hobbit coming out in 2012 and hence the licensed game system? (Over thinking this probably).
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Post by: Howard A Treesong
Most people can only afford to make one army, so make it the best they can. I think it's a really bad thing for 'the hobby' if people feel they can't do what they want because the local games workshop touting itself as the local games store will make a fuss over minor modification.
Models are models, there's very little reasonable about expecting people to tailor their collection in a certain way just to game at your shop for the sake of a few shoulder pads. Cut your customers some slack, they are still spending most of their money with you. This isn't whole models, it's bases and shoulder pads and guns. It really doesn't matter, GW just have no perspective and are showing themselves to be their usual paranoid and possessive self when it comes to the dominance of their product.
In a lot of places the only local game store is a Games Workshop, they're just trying to monopolise people's purchases and trying to discourage the use of any other model retailer. Well fething grow up.
It's just another very good reason not to go to GW other than for purchases, go and form a gaming club or anything to avoid these stores for gaming purposes. Go somewhere else where you have the freedom to make and play with your own models and have some expression of imagination that doesn't involve fitting their corporate advertising needs.
After all, lets not forget that people gaming in their shops *is* a big advert for them to draw more people in and get everyone enthusiastic about spending. They should to some extent be grateful that people use their premises for gaming, it's a great advert for their 'hobby'. See, it works both ways, the most successful and well thought of games stores are those that foster gaming beyond merely selling goods. I don't see it happening, but if everyone went elsewhere to game and GW stores started to look rather empty and lifeless, they might just remember that stifling creativity and individuality in people's armies might not be a price worth paying just to prevent anyone daring to use a Chapterhouse shoulder pad or Micro Arts base.
299
Post by: Kilkrazy
1. It's just a rumour.
2. If it's true; Company store, Company rules. GW cannot afford to let the newbs realise there is a huge world of wargaming outside GW.
3. Start a club. Hire a venue or play at someone's house, or church hall. Americans have a lot of community involvement, big houses and so on. Put that to good use.
722
Post by: Kanluwen
Grundz wrote:MeanGreenStompa wrote:
The glue, stop sniffing it. I would be honoured to have stuff of this quality across the board from me.
And that is the point, things can be done "right" and done "poorly"
Elitist douches want everything done "their" way, when a reasonable person would let anyone try out an army/units a few times with some stand-ins before they drop tons of cash picking up the minis.
Having read the gist of this "release", It is /not/ GW's previous policy on 3rd party parts, basically if you work at an official GW store and allow models with unofficial parts to be used, at all, be sure to have your resume up to date.
GW has never had a 'previous policy on 3rd party parts'. They've never said anything, apart from a few overzealous employees doing it to people who were really 'consistent offenders' bringing in armies full of non- GW models.
It is a far cry from the previous %age GW parts thing, and I can see it being a direct response to 3rd party part availability.
It's funny because if you read this release--it mentions that percentage.
As never being more than a 'guideline for GW prize supported, non- GW events'.
What does that mean?
Any FLGS/independent that ran a tournament or event that got GW prize support--had to use that percentage when determining 'best in show' armies that were to be photographed/displayed.
34605
Post by: spireland
I think it's proof what's screwed up in this country when the only examples anyone can think of is Fast Food ones...
752
Post by: Polonius
spireland wrote:I think it's proof what's screwed up in this country when the only examples anyone can think of is Fast Food ones...
Well, there aren't a lot of instances where a company sells a product, plus nearly all of the associated accessories, and then also provides room to use those products.
Maybe it would be like brining yoru dell to the Apple Store, but even then you don't really use macs at the store.
722
Post by: Kanluwen
Polonius wrote:spireland wrote:I think it's proof what's screwed up in this country when the only examples anyone can think of is Fast Food ones...
Well, there aren't a lot of instances where a company sells a product, plus nearly all of the associated accessories, and then also provides room to use those products.
Maybe it would be like bringing your Dell to the Apple Store, but even then you don't really use Macs at the store.
The closest one I can really think of is taking candy you bought in a huge bulk bag into a movie theater.
That or showing up at a mini-golf course with your own clubs 
3197
Post by: MagickalMemories
Grundz wrote:Welcome to the fallout from chapterhouse
*IF* that was true, the only one to suffer would be GW.
Eric
38067
Post by: spaceelf
I do not think that this is a company-wide policy. A manager decided it was in his best interest to stop 3rd party stuff from being used in the shop. GW managers make all kinds of crazy decisions. I know a GW manager who stopped a person from using Forge World models because they were not sold in the store.
The other point to consider is that policies change. It used to be that they would not allow you to play in the store if your models were not painted. Now you can play with it if you can put it on the table. I frequently see people playing with parts of miniatures.
26
Post by: carmachu
Most likely because higher ups know their going to get their rear handed to them in the chapterhouse suit, so they'll just ban it from their stores.
Stupid policy. I'm more likely to buy a GW model if I have an idea that involves an outside product, then not. GW has come a long way since RT days, and not in a good way. Automatically Appended Next Post: SoloFalcon1138 wrote:Would you be peeved if a local McDonalds posted a sign reading that you couldn't take Whoppers into their stores? They are in retail, and they want to make money. They don;t want to here people whining about the cost of an expensive hobby and finding alternate models to fill the gaps.
Apples and oranges comparsion. you dont have a meal that is 90% mcdonald's and 10% burger king.
But you can have a GW model thats almost all GW and a head or a shoulder pad thats outside product. In essence, they've made their money when you buy a space marine tactical box, and added say a chapterhouse shoulderpad- which is no different then using say a forgeworld shoulder pad.
However, GW is well within their rights to implement any stupid policy they want. Automatically Appended Next Post: krazynadechukr wrote:I think it is good policy.
If GW starts allowing people to use other game miniatures, and allows a much broader use of stand ins & scratch builds, we will start seeing hodge podge collections of minis, mixing 25mm, 28mm, 30mm and different details in the minis, heroscape minis being used, toy soldiers, and "count as" will be rampant too, and so on....
Obviously you havent been playing very long. There was a time where they, GW, encouraged scratch building and such. Hell I remember pictures they had in various magazines( WD, Citadel journal) they proudly showed them off- including one chaos dread they had that took 35 different parts, including they said, car parts to build.....
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Post by: nkelsch
People are purposefully being dense for the sake of outrage. They are digging up possible examples so they can say "SEEEEEEEEEEEEE? You would ban this models so your policy is void! all models should be allowed!"
We all know why this is here...
1. People who use alternative lines as proxies or 'counts as'. GW has no reason to allow those models to ever be used within the store.
2. People who are using conversion bitz for a significant part of the model, especially the important visible parts like heads/shoulders/weapons. If anyone sees those parts and want to purchase them, they can't because they are made by other companies.
3. Garbage, toys or shoeboxes being used as proxies.
Just because someone somewhere on the internet made an awesome model that may not be welcome in the store doesn't mean that 99% of the models which would be targeted by this policy are not valid models that GW is perfectly justified in not allowing them in their store.
If you don't like it, don't game there?
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Post by: Doctor Optimal
Kilkrazy wrote:1. It's just a rumour.
2. If it's true; Company store, Company rules. GW cannot afford to let the newbs realise there is a huge world of wargaming outside GW.
3. Start a club. Hire a venue or play at someone's house, or church hall. Americans have a lot of community involvement, big houses and so on. Put that to good use.
[  ] 1. Assuming it is true: 2. I don't think anyone has said they don't have the right to do this, just that it's an arrogant and short-sighted move on GW's part. As an aside, it's more than a little annoying that the first defense in any " GW Does Something Stupid" story is to trot out the same old weak "their house, their rules" defense, as if GW's right to do x is ever in dispute. It is their house, and no one is suggesting they don't have every right to do this, just that it's stunningly disrespectful to their customers (oops, sorry, "followers"  ) who pour in large sums of money year after year. Especially for IG players who are, in my experience, the main consumer of after-market heads to make up for the feth-ugly ones we got stuck with. 3. At this point, after a 10 (15?) year campaign by GW to undercut local games stores (and in so doing, the clubs that relied on those stores) in the UK and US it's a little sanguine to put forward that we can just start a club in the (often non-existent) public spaces for 40k. As others have said (and, noting that anecdotes aren't the same as data), once the dice come out lots of people scream "gambling" and what little space might have been there, isn't there anymore. TL,DR: If this is true, it was a stupid and arrogant decision, even by the standards of GW. [/ ] Taking my own experience as a for-instance. I was debating whether to put Pig Iron Kolony heads on Cadian bodies (for a Red Army in space look) or to use Cadian arms on Wargames Factory's Zulu War Brits (for a Michael Caine, Zulu-tribute look). Now my old justification for buying a lot of Cadians and just adding better heads is gone, if this rumor is true, I can't play in a GW store either way. I have no reason to buy the Cadian sets anymore, I'll just buy Cadian arms from a bitz-merchant, which means lower sales overall for GW (especially since I suspect a lot of the bitz merchants are doing recasting). I fail to even understand how this is a good deal for GW.
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Post by: Worglock
I find this to be exceedingly unlikely.
Sounds more like some neckbearded baddie got caught being a neckbearded baddie and did what neckbearded baddies do: Cry On The Internet.
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Post by: nkelsch
Doctor Optimal wrote:
2. I don't think anyone has said they don't have the right to do this, just that it's an arrogant and short-sighted move on GW's part.
I find a lot of supposed GW customers entitled and selfish as they activley take actions to harm GW with weak justifications and then demand GW pander to their unreasonable expectations.
Between the people who are playing GW games with garbage proxies and never buy a GW model or those who steal from GW both physically as well as recasting... I just don't see why GW should be expected to let people who are actively spitting in their face game for free in their stores.
Of course not all people are like this but it only takes one turd in the punchbowl to make it unsafe for everyone to drink... I know to keep my Kromlech orks at home if I want to game at GW as in exchange for me monopolizing their space which they pay rent on, I don't find a problem being expected to show GWs models in the best possible light to enhance sales. If I am gaming in GW, I am basically staring in a GW commercial for lookie-loos to see. That is how it is... the expectation of a 'higher cause' or 'gamers rights' is absurd, they are a company with a store selling a product, not a non-profit gaming club.
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Post by: Captain Jack
Doctor Optimal wrote:Kilkrazy wrote:1. It's just a rumour.
2. If it's true; Company store, Company rules. GW cannot afford to let the newbs realise there is a huge world of wargaming outside GW.
3. Start a club. Hire a venue or play at someone's house, or church hall. Americans have a lot of community involvement, big houses and so on. Put that to good use.
[ ]
1. Assuming it is true:
2. I don't think anyone has said they don't have the right to do this, just that it's an arrogant and short-sighted move on GW's part. As an aside, it's more than a little annoying that the first defense in any " GW Does Something Stupid" story is to trot out the same old weak "their house, their rules" defense, as if GW's right to do x is ever in dispute. It is their house, and no one is suggesting they don't have every right to do this, just that it's stunningly disrespectful to their customers (oops, sorry, "followers" ) who pour in large sums of money year after year. Especially for IG players who are, in my experience, the main consumer of after-market heads to make up for the feth-ugly ones we got stuck with.
3. At this point, after a 10 (15?) year campaign by GW to undercut local games stores (and in so doing, the clubs that relied on those stores) in the UK and US it's a little sanguine to put forward that we can just start a club in the (often non-existent) public spaces for 40k. As others have said (and, noting that anecdotes aren't the same as data), once the dice come out lots of people scream "gambling" and what little space might have been there, isn't there anymore.
TL,DR: If this is true, it was a stupid and arrogant decision, even by the standards of GW.
[/ ]
Taking my own experience as a for-instance. I was debating whether to put Pig Iron Kolony heads on Cadian bodies (for a Red Army in space look) or to use Cadian arms on Wargames Factory's Zulu War Brits (for a Michael Caine, Zulu-tribute look). Now my old justification for buying a lot of Cadians and just adding better heads is gone, if this rumor is true, I can't play in a GW store either way. I have no reason to buy the Cadian sets anymore, I'll just buy Cadian arms from a bitz-merchant, which means lower sales overall for GW (especially since I suspect a lot of the bitz merchants are doing recasting). I fail to even understand how this is a good deal for GW.
1) Going by the man at the head of the thread, and their *ahem* interests I would take a large pinch of salt
2) Stop being so myopic, do you really think GW would do something that would cost them sales? Umm, that would be a no then. At the end of the day you can't go into a store that sells product A, while espousing product B because you think it is so much better. Common sense would tell you that is wrong and unfair to the shop staff and likely to lead to you being asked to leave.
3) How does a GW store undercut a FLGS? I have never seen a discount offered, or is it the fact that GW has a buisiness plan and training for its staff in order to boost said sales? Ok, it might not always work but hey, it does well enough (sorta). Why is it so difficult to start a club in America? Are there no facilities at all that you could use? Are you putting too many barriers in your way to prevent you going to all the hassle of running your own club?
At the end of it I'm calling shenanigans on all this. Yes there will always be managers/staff that are having a bad day at the office, and stupid spod customers taking the mickey. Look at the author of this thread, and look at the vested interest he has in rabble rousing. I don't know about you guys, but I am able to have a descent relationship with my local store staff and have never run into any problems with any of my armies, including the 'Cowboy Guard' in my gallery.
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Post by: Jackal
To be honest, they do have every right to keep the sole focus in the stores on the models they make.
However, most staff wont recognise alot of the older models.
Infact, you could use 3rd party stuff.
How can they prove you havent sculpted it and cast it yourself?
Also, by following the exact ruling, bases would look pretty damn poor.
Using nothing outside of GW really does limit basing.
40132
Post by: ArbeitsSchu
I remember a time when GW managers were insisting that people could only use bases painted goblin green AND NOTHING ELSE.
They guy who had spent a week painting individual chequered patterns on a hundred Goff Orks was more than a little irate.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
I also remember GW using Star Wars AT-ST scout walkers as the basis for scout titans, and deploying them at a Games day. And cardboard baneblades, "lego" war-wagons, the lot of it.
25983
Post by: Jackal
I do infact still paint alot of things with a goblin green base
Like the classic look of it lol.
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Post by: Doctor Optimal
nkelsch wrote:
I find a lot of supposed GW customers entitled and selfish as they activley take actions to harm GW with weak justifications and then demand GW pander to their unreasonable expectations.
Between the people who are playing GW games with garbage proxies and never buy a GW model or those who steal from GW both physically as well as recasting... I just don't see why GW should be expected to let people who are actively spitting in their face game for free in their stores.
Of course not all people are like this but it only takes one turd in the punchbowl to make it unsafe for everyone to drink... I know to keep my Kromlech orks at home if I want to game at GW as in exchange for me monopolizing their space which they pay rent on, I don't find a problem being expected to show GWs models in the best possible light to enhance sales. If I am gaming in GW, I am basically staring in a GW commercial for lookie-loos to see. That is how it is... the expectation of a 'higher cause' or 'gamers rights' is absurd, they are a company with a store selling a product, not a non-profit gaming club.
Hurp-a-Durp. Keep on banging that "rights" drum! Because someone has totally said that, rite?
40132
Post by: ArbeitsSchu
Jackal wrote:I do infact still paint alot of things with a goblin green base
Like the classic look of it lol.
No issue with choosing to paint bases whatever colour one cares to. But to enforce this at the same time as releasing Tallarn Desert Raiders and Valhallan Ice warriors in a GrimDark universe that contains such things as "Cobalt/Ammonium Deserts" or plains of fused glass, or even scenery that ignores the laws of physics and is made of tortured souls last nightmares, and Dave Andrews had Cadians with static grass on the bases ("static grass, what on earth is that? Never heard of it, but it looks so.. real.") ...Epic level stupid. Short thrift was given to this edict.
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Post by: Kroothawk
AFAIK this 100% GW thing is official policy for GW tournaments since about a year or two, probably also for GW stores. But not every GW store enforces this fully.
33033
Post by: kenshin620
Wow, quite surprised to see so many surprised people here. I thought it was common knowledge that official GW stores tend to not like you if you got non GW stuff
6181
Post by: Doctor Optimal
kenshin620 wrote:Wow, quite surprised to see so many surprised people here. I thought it was common knowledge that official GW stores tend to not like you if you got non GW stuff
Never heard of a problem with Pig Iron heads on Cadian bodies, or ZSU-23 turrets on a Chimera for a Hydra. This policy would create problems with both.
40132
Post by: ArbeitsSchu
kenshin620 wrote:Wow, quite surprised to see so many surprised people here. I thought it was common knowledge that official GW stores tend to not like you if you got non GW stuff
I never got the impression it was official policy to like you if you bought official GW stuff either. At least not after the first time you shopped there.
33033
Post by: kenshin620
Doctor Optimal wrote:kenshin620 wrote:Wow, quite surprised to see so many surprised people here. I thought it was common knowledge that official GW stores tend to not like you if you got non GW stuff
Never heard of a problem with Pig Iron heads on Cadian bodies, or ZSU-23 turrets on a Chimera for a Hydra. This policy would create problems with both.
Hmm I guess small conversions were allowed. I just dont remember since I never spend more than 5 minutes in a store
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Post by: mikhaila
Doctor Optimal wrote:
3. At this point, after a 10 (15?) year campaign by GW to undercut local games stores (and in so doing, the clubs that relied on those stores) in the UK and US it's a little sanguine to put forward that we can just start a club in the (often non-existent) public spaces for 40k. As others have said (and, noting that anecdotes aren't the same as data), once the dice come out lots of people scream "gambling" and what little space might have been there, isn't there anymore.
Guess I was taking a nap for the last 15 years, I totally missed the whole campaign. 
I've had a huge amount of support from GW going back 20 years. Lately they've been even more supportive, encouraging my stores to work with local clubs. I've heard forever about how GW undermine FLGS, but somehow the actual facts always seems to be 4th hand and very vague.
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Post by: Kanluwen
Clearly Mikhaila, you're a GW plant here to throw us off of The Truth.
26
Post by: carmachu
nkelsch wrote:People are purposefully being dense for the sake of outrage. They are digging up possible examples so they can say "SEEEEEEEEEEEEE? You would ban this models so your policy is void! all models should be allowed!"
We all know why this is here...
1. People who use alternative lines as proxies or 'counts as'. GW has no reason to allow those models to ever be used within the store.
2. People who are using conversion bitz for a significant part of the model, especially the important visible parts like heads/shoulders/weapons. If anyone sees those parts and want to purchase them, they can't because they are made by other companies.
3. Garbage, toys or shoeboxes being used as proxies.
Just because someone somewhere on the internet made an awesome model that may not be welcome in the store doesn't mean that 99% of the models which would be targeted by this policy are not valid models that GW is perfectly justified in not allowing them in their store.
No we dont know why thats here. Folks like yourself are being dense- the policy, as stated, means that well done armies that use otehr bits as well as crap are banned. It makes no difference as to the quality, only pieces used. It cuts across all matters of quality.
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Post by: blaktoof
Kinda silly to not allow models that are mostly GW but not all GW parts. Usually the person bought the whole blister or boxed set and then conversion parts so it's not like GW lost any money what so ever, their profit margin would remain the same.
Proxies from entirely non GW models or models that were mostly non GW with like a lasgun is understandable.
7942
Post by: nkelsch
carmachu wrote:
No we dont know why thats here. Folks like yourself are being dense- the policy, as stated, means that well done armies that use otehr bits as well as crap are banned. It makes no difference as to the quality, only pieces used. It cuts across all matters of quality.
Alternative lines can be very nice... They are also competing products that GW doesn't sell and it has no place in a GW store because it doesn't promote gw sales or cause people to look elsewhere for models which defeats the purpose of a store.
So yes, nice armies would be banned. I see no reason why a total conversion army made with other companies parts has the right or should be expected to be on display in a GW store. I don't understand the confusion on why GW should promote other people's product in their store.
13812
Post by: Ulven
Honestly at the end of the day, it's their store, their money and they'll probably realise that it wasn't such a wonderful idea when people don't return to the store.
If anything good were to arise from this, it may encourage players to start their own gaming clubs, or even their own FLGS.
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Post by: Mattlov
Do I have to use GW dice, and tape measure as well?
I understand it, but it is a wee bit much. Glad I don't have a GW within 150 miles...
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Post by: krazynadechukr
There's a friggin world of difference from the garbage that I saw on the board last weekend and the stuff you posted.....I would love for that quality to be in my opponents army that you posted!
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Post by: grizgrin
Heck, it gets worse than that in some stores. One of the stores here in Houston wont allow scratch builds of Forgeworld or GW stuff. Got a bang-on Thunderhawk you'd love to use? Not in that store.
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Post by: Adam LongWalker
First of all in my region of the world, Using other models other than GW in their store is generally frowned upon.
Second of all in my region of the world, Scratch building and model conversion is an acceptable practice. The main reason is because it eventually sells GW models . The general accepted percentage in my region is 75/25 = GW/other parts for conversions.
Selling models is the managers top priority, getting people pissed off, and these people would generally be the Vets that would be doing the serious conversions is not a smart idea. They are the ones who are paying for the sets of models to make conversions out of.
But then again when has Games Workshop have done a logical thing of late?
12313
Post by: Ouze
nvillacci wrote:According to the post, GW will no longer allow its in-store customers to use ANY other companies products in the store. This means, bases, non-wargaming toys, bits and pieces, etc. So we are talking anything besides GW, Greenstuff or Plasticard and you cannot use it and will be asked to leave.
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Post by: wardancer
well, I stay away from GW stores anyway, I hate being jumped upon by their overzealous sellers and being around horde of screaming kids. We got our club and all bits and manufacturers are allowed there.
1941
Post by: Wolfstan
What about non GW dice or tapes?
33327
Post by: sarpedons-right-hand
I don't think GW should jump on you for using say, parts of a soda-pop mini to embellish you own, GW made mini's. That just seems a little overzealous. I agree that using entire squads or even armies of other, lessor known mini makers in your instore game is rude, but if GW actually provided half the mini's that they make the rules for, then maybe we wouldn't be in that situation in the first place. I'm planning on using some warmachine bits and bobs to embellish my pre heresy emp.children for example, although they are RTB01's. I can fully understand if you wanted to use other 28mm mini's to represent things that GW have rules for but simply do not make the minis. I guess thou that if you insist on using unofficial GW mini's in your ay then just play at home or at your FLGS......
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Post by: NAVARRO
How will the GW store fella tell its sculpted by the army owner or just purchased bit? If I buy GS and sculpt my army from scratch would it be illegal? They still sell GS right?
These are just some silly simple questions but illustrate a bit of how these things are not that linear if they take the blind action of ban! ban! ban!
To me all this seems unecessary and childish.
Half the fun of this hobby is sculpting or getting other companies bitz to convert your army to your tastes... GW wants to controll your personall decisions... good luck with that!
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Post by: Ugavine
Just tell GW you scuplted the models out of melted down GW sprues
221
Post by: Frazzled
Ugavine wrote:Just tell GW you scuplted the models out of melted down GW sprues
In the red shirt kiln, using the souls and nerdrage of frustrated red shirts to fire the kiln.
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Post by: whitedragon
mikhaila wrote:Doctor Optimal wrote:
3. At this point, after a 10 (15?) year campaign by GW to undercut local games stores (and in so doing, the clubs that relied on those stores) in the UK and US it's a little sanguine to put forward that we can just start a club in the (often non-existent) public spaces for 40k. As others have said (and, noting that anecdotes aren't the same as data), once the dice come out lots of people scream "gambling" and what little space might have been there, isn't there anymore.
Guess I was taking a nap for the last 15 years, I totally missed the whole campaign.
I've had a huge amount of support from GW going back 20 years. Lately they've been even more supportive, encouraging my stores to work with local clubs. I've heard forever about how GW undermine FLGS, but somehow the actual facts always seems to be 4th hand and very vague.
The FLGS's that complain about GW are the ones that were usually have other issues going on as well. I agree with Mikhaila 100%, and I've seen the business from both sides.
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Post by: Arctik_Firangi
Meh. I had an army on display in a GW store using third party resin bases that the staff were perfectly aware of. One of the staff immediately ordered some for himself. He didn't make a huge deal about it to his customers because obviously it does nothing to help their business. I entered last year's Golden Daemon at another store (at which it was on display) and advanced with a model on a third party resin base that they were perfectly aware of.
The idea of demonising GW for this casual policy which serves to protect their interests in a way that does not harm anyone is idiotic at the very least. This is internet hype and massive exaggeration - I can't believe that people are making such a big deal about it. Grow a pair, all of you.
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Post by: Mad4Minis
Agamemnon2 wrote:I'm continually surprised GW lets me play with GW models from the 80s and 90s. If they had an ounce of sense in their thick heads, they'd ban THOSE.
Im sure its coming. Soon it will be...not only do models have to be 100% GW, but they have to be current range. I mean, what if some newbie sees you using RT era SM, decides he likes them and goes to ebay to get some? That is a sale lost, he should be buying new current range stuff that GW makes fresh money off of...not that old stuff that GW made its money from 20 years ago.
And people who ask about dice...mark my words, one day GW will sell dice with a tiny GW in each corner, and store employees will be forced to check all dice for the company stamp.
Maybe one day they will have color swatches for employees to use to verify models were painted with GW paints.
I really get a kick out of all the stuff they do...I like watching them get more and more ridiculous, and watching all the fanboys whine and cry but continue to throw their money at GW. Its fun to watch how far it goes before people break and say "fark this, no more, Im done" and move on to other games/companies.
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Post by: redeyed
In a GW not to far from me, they dont allow you to use older GW models
you have to use "current edition"
The daemonette example I gave was a real one, old metals not allowed, only new plastic, which I personally think is disgusting as I much prefer the old metals. (and its their own damn product ffs)
I think Gw has the right to say "no 3rd party models" in their stores, but they should be flexible regarding bases and the odd head/shoulderpad.
Conversely, a friend of mine attended throne of skulls last year. Which is supposed to have the % gw miniature rule. Apparently a guy playing next to him was using chaos space marines as termagaunts and a star wars model as a carnifex :S nothing was done about it.
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Post by: sarpedons-right-hand
I REALLY hope that the bod's at GW don't ban you from using RT era mini's. Do they have ANY idea about how long it takes to put together a competitive list using mini's that can only be found on eBay?! And I have just spent a small fortune on an unmolested RT landraider......Please don't let it come to pass.....:(
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Post by: redeyed
What I stated above is only one GW though, I have been to another and the manager hasnt got a beef with them so I dont know if its just the one guy or a general thing (sadly for me the good gw is further away).
I also have a penchant for older models, so if it was to become a blanket policy then it would royally wind me up.
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Post by: Arctik_Firangi
redeyed wrote:In a GW not to far from me, they dont allow you to use older GW models
you have to use "current edition"
The daemonette example I gave was a real one, old metals not allowed, only new plastic, which I personally think is disgusting as I much prefer the old metals. (and its their own damn product ffs)
This is clearly also a localised case compared to my personal experience.
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Post by: sarpedons-right-hand
I guess the biggest problem with this is the utter lack of FLGS's in the uk. At least here in the Oxford area anyway.....I have lived here for 7 years and there does not seem to be any at all. Unless I've completely missed one or two. The only way I get to meet new players is by going into my local GW and getting a game there.... I would have to play by their instore rules obviously. And if that means no 'corrupted' mini's then so be it. I love the GW universe always have and have kept buying and playing for nearly 20 years, but I can fully understand why peeps would be put off by the current instore rules and pricing policy's. I can't rely on parents trying to keep me happy anymore by buying the latest must have mini's for me. And besides which I'm a massive conversion/kitbusting fan! All told, I guess the older you get the less likely you are to be playing in a GW store. Oh, if anyone can help with FLGS's/gaming clubs in my area please do so!.....
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Post by: Fury_00011
I understand GW's rule but at the same time using 3rd party bits for conversion purposes to add unique flavor to an army should be excepted as long as stated earlier that you can tell the mini is a GW mini.
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Post by: AvatarForm
Happygrunt wrote:I have a feeling that some people will just look the other way for small things like heads or bases...
This.
Though I did not believe this to be a recent occurrence.
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Post by: Gitsplitta
I figure it's their store, they can put up whatever rules they'd like.
That being said... in 20+ years of playing 40k, I have never set foot in a GW store, nor do I think I'll ever need do so. Play at your house, your friend's house, an independent retailer... there are many possibilities that do not involve subjecting yourself to GW's corporate rules.
In other words... vote with your feet.
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Post by: Praxiss
I must be lucky in that my local GW actually encourages conversions. Admittedly if they are not most GW stuff they sometimes have a quiet word.
But they are often happy to explain to kids hwo to convert existing models to get a different model that GW might not produce.
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Post by: Ian Sturrock
I spent a while aiming to keep all my minis GW-only so as to be able to enter tournaments, but given that there are now independent Grand Tourneys that are more competitive (no silly Throne of Skulls style "compare your score with other people using the same codex to determine an overall winner") and cheaper than the GW equivalents, I've relaxed my personal policy and will be buying a load more non-GW bits and minis. My nearest GW is not especially near, anyway... and I get more than enough gaming either at home or at the local gaming club.
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Post by: Snarky
Is this a US occurrence? The local GW that I have seems to have no problems with things like 3rd party headswaps etc.
In fact, most of the bad management/employee stories do originate from US based posters. Perhaps something fishy is going on at the US GW HQ?
42123
Post by: redeyed
no it does occur in the UK to, but it seems to be store specific, depends on the manager I guess.
I want to know though if its a GW policy:
I.e: are the managers who arent allowing older models/3rd party bits going along with GW or just making up their own rules
conversely are the cool managers allowing older models/3rd party going against the GW edict.
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Post by: Pacific
If you are sensible about it, you will be able to continue using your 3rd party bits, regardless of this latest proclamation.
I've used a variety of maxmini and pig iron bits, as well as conversion combinations from various GW kits, I have never ever had any trouble - and this includes the fact that one store I frequented had a real GW zealot manager who would have crawled naked through broken glass and flung himself infront of a truck if a directive from HQ told him to.
Whenever I've been quizzed about them, the answer I always give is 'green stuff' or 'plasticard'. So for my batch of maxmini heads I get praised for my immense green stuffing skills, to which I shrug modestly, and then I continue with the game.
The people who will have the problem are the loudmouths who will march into GW with their converted models held above their head, proclaiming "I have the right to use this model in here, just try and stop me." After which even the most 'human' of managers will feel obliged to kick you out, even if they might not have otherwise have done.
The point is not to draw attention to it, I think the manager would really have to have some kind of personal vendetta against you to make an issue out of it if you don't.
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Post by: krazynadechukr
redeyed wrote:In a GW not to far from me, they dont allow you to use older GW models
you have to use "current edition"
The daemonette example I gave was a real one, old metals not allowed, only new plastic, which I personally think is disgusting as I much prefer the old metals. (and its their own damn product ffs)
If that is true, that is bull$*&#.
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Post by: timetowaste85
I don't think they can actually tell you not to use old edition GW models-they are still legitimate. Call customer services and complain about it. Give them the store address and they'll probably deal with it-at least by telling the manager it's ridiculous to ban OOP company models.
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Post by: redeyed
I found it disgusting and I actually emailed GW about it along with a friend of mine. Sadly as usual I got no reply. This actually occured a few months ago anyhow.
I mean its a GW product for goodness sake and its not like a metal daemonette is not fit for purpose and doesnt look the part!
BUT I do hasten to add I went to another GW store and the manager there was totally fine with them being used. Confused me at the time as I was waiting for a confrontation about it!
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Post by: MagickalMemories
Snarky wrote:Is this a US occurrence? The local GW that I have seems to have no problems with things like 3rd party headswaps etc.
In fact, most of the bad management/employee stories do originate from US based posters. Perhaps something fishy is going on at the US GW HQ?
That's because GW has already managed to suppress GW games in other locations in your area.
Here, the FLGS competition is so strong that they *seem to be* trying to strong arm their way into a position of dominance.
If anyone wants to know how Americans react to people trying to strong arm us, they should reference the last 200+ years.
LOL the only people allowed to strong arm us are politicians, OPEC and our wives!
Eric
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Post by: Snarky
MagickalMemories wrote:Snarky wrote:Is this a US occurrence? The local GW that I have seems to have no problems with things like 3rd party headswaps etc.
In fact, most of the bad management/employee stories do originate from US based posters. Perhaps something fishy is going on at the US GW HQ?
That's because GW has already managed to suppress GW games in other locations in your area.
Here, the FLGS competition is so strong that they *seem to be* trying to strong arm their way into a position of dominance.
If anyone wants to know how Americans react to people trying to strong arm us, they should reference the last 200+ years.
LOL the only people allowed to strong arm us are politicians, OPEC and our wives!
Eric
That's sort of untrue, seeing as you don't actually know what area of the UK I even am. There are at least 3 LGS I can think of in my area that are independent of GW and stock their products.
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Post by: ArbeitsSchu
I think what people are likely to find is that many GW "Managers" are in fact the sort of power-mad butthole that got into wargaming entirely because they get to tell little men what to do. The kind of mentality that, when given real power, gets people killed. Think in terms of Ross from Friends in Band of Brothers.
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Post by: Stella Cadente
GW haven't let none GW stuff in stores for years, its only pathetic when you don't allow GW stuff, like 2nd ed 40k models or really old fantasy models.
but then what muppet plays in a GW?
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Post by: MagickalMemories
Snarky wrote:MagickalMemories wrote:Snarky wrote:Is this a US occurrence? The local GW that I have seems to have no problems with things like 3rd party headswaps etc.
In fact, most of the bad management/employee stories do originate from US based posters. Perhaps something fishy is going on at the US GW HQ?
That's because GW has already managed to suppress GW games in other locations in your area.
Here, the FLGS competition is so strong that they *seem to be* trying to strong arm their way into a position of dominance.
If anyone wants to know how Americans react to people trying to strong arm us, they should reference the last 200+ years.
LOL the only people allowed to strong arm us are politicians, OPEC and our wives!
Eric
That's sort of untrue, seeing as you don't actually know what area of the UK I even am. There are at least 3 LGS I can think of in my area that are independent of GW and stock their products.
I was speaking in comparisons.
When comparing the GW market in the UK to the market in the US as a whole, I'm dead-on.
GWUK has a decidedly superior market share of stores with a good GW following over UKFLGS's with one. As evidenced by the decline of GW stores US-wide, GW does not have the nationwide foothold here that it once thought it would/could.
...again, "in comparison."
Eric
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Post by: Frazzled
ArbeitsSchu wrote:I think what people are likely to find is that many GW "Managers" are in fact the sort of power-mad butthole that got into wargaming entirely because they get to tell little men what to do. The kind of mentality that, when given real power, gets people killed. Think in terms of Ross from Friends in Band of Brothers.
Wow its rare to come across someone even close to the same level of bitterness and distrust that Frazzled has, but it appears we have one. I will set you high in my counsel young padiwon.
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Post by: Kilkrazy
redeyed wrote:In a GW not to far from me, they dont allow you to use older GW models
you have to use "current edition"
The daemonette example I gave was a real one, old metals not allowed, only new plastic, which I personally think is disgusting as I much prefer the old metals. (and its their own damn product ffs)
I think Gw has the right to say "no 3rd party models" in their stores, but they should be flexible regarding bases and the odd head/shoulderpad.
Conversely, a friend of mine attended throne of skulls last year. Which is supposed to have the % gw miniature rule. Apparently a guy playing next to him was using chaos space marines as termagaunts and a star wars model as a carnifex :S nothing was done about it.
GW have the right to impose any conditions at all on the models used in their shops. They can require you to buy, build and paint the army in front of them before you can use it.
In their shop.
You have the right to go and do whatever you want, with anyone's models, anywhere else you can find a venue. You have the right to never buy a single GW model ever again, and make all your WH/ 40K armies from substitute figures.
If you dislike GW's policy, don't be a slave. Play Warmachine. Play Infinity. Play Fire & Fury ACW, or Polemos 6mm Napoleonics, or Dystopian Wars Steampunk. Invite all your friends to join in.
GW is not the only game in town.
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Post by: Frazzled
Kilkrazy wrote:redeyed wrote:In a GW not to far from me, they dont allow you to use older GW models
you have to use "current edition"
The daemonette example I gave was a real one, old metals not allowed, only new plastic, which I personally think is disgusting as I much prefer the old metals. (and its their own damn product ffs)
I think Gw has the right to say "no 3rd party models" in their stores, but they should be flexible regarding bases and the odd head/shoulderpad.
Conversely, a friend of mine attended throne of skulls last year. Which is supposed to have the % gw miniature rule. Apparently a guy playing next to him was using chaos space marines as termagaunts and a star wars model as a carnifex :S nothing was done about it.
GW have the right to impose any conditions at all on the models used in their shops. They can require you to buy, build and paint the army in front of them before you can use it.
In their shop.
You have the right to go and do whatever you want, with anyone's models, anywhere else you can find a venue. You have the right to never buy a single GW model ever again, and make all your WH/ 40K armies from substitute figures.
If you dislike GW's policy, don't be a slave. Play Warmachine. Play Infinity. Play Fire & Fury ACW, or Polemos 6mm Napoleonics, or Dystopian Wars Steampunk. Invite all your friends to join in.
GW is not the only game in town.
What he said, but add in some weiner dogs, a large machete, and a bottle of Patron.
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Post by: Balance
Frazzled wrote:What he said, but add in some weiner dogs, a large machete, and a bottle of Patron.
Now this guy knows how to party.
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Post by: redeyed
That is exactly what I do do, play at an independant club, LGS, with friends, alternate systems.
HOWEVER "go elsewhere speech's" aside
I believe banning their own models seems somewhat counter productive and tbh I think anyone would have the right to complain on that one after spending a large amount of money then being told you cant use it anymore. Its a totally different issue to 3rd party models. It is their own product!
Its more a point of principle than a "I have no other choice" issue.
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Post by: Balance
redeyed wrote: I believe banning their own models seems somewhat counter productive and tbh I think anyone would have the right to complain on that one after spending a large amount of money then being told you cant use it anymore. Its a totally different issue to 3rd party models. It is their own product!
They're not saying you can't use it. They're saying you can't use it on their private property which they don't even charge for.
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Post by: MagickalMemories
I'm going to diverge -slightly- from KK's advice.
if your local GW tries to ban you from using any model that's not the most current version, do NOT be silent about it. Take it up the ladder. Speak with *that* manager's manager. If that doesn't work, speak with *his* manager.
Somewhere up the line, someone's going to be really p!ssed off that this is happening. Their "corporate" policy is that it has to be a GW model. Period. They're not going to be happy about alienating us even further. Not at a retail level.
Eric
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Post by: redeyed
"rolls eyes" semantics @ balance!
Thats true enough Magical! I did at the time, but after I recieved no reply I just basically did what Kilkrazy was saying + I began frequenting another GW store where the manager wasnt a boob lol!
but anyway I'm not going to get into an argument on small parts of the issue! have said my piece on it, time to post on other more fun things!
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Post by: Balance
my guess is (as others have been suggested) that in practice this would be used against people with models that are definitely not GW, and models with a bit of non-GW (Say, alternate heads) will not be pushed out, unless they're annoying about it.
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Post by: Kilkrazy
It is only a problem for people who think a GW shop is the best place to play wargames.
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Post by: Captain Jack
Kilkrazy wrote:It is only a problem for people who think a GW shop is the best place to play wargames.
Indeed, a GW store should be the first place most nubes get a taste for playing. Once they have graduated to vet status there should be no need to get their game fix in store. Vet status means that you are able to stand on your own two feet and toodle across to a club or start a club between yourselves. Lots of others have managed it, and then you get to be Das Heil and make your own rules. How cool is that?
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Post by: Kroothawk
Mattlov wrote:Do I have to use GW dice, and tape measure as well?
GW also sells T-Shirts. Better prepare for next year's policy change
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Post by: Adam LongWalker
redeyed wrote:In a GW not to far from me, they dont allow you to use older GW models
you have to use "current edition"
The daemonette example I gave was a real one, old metals not allowed, only new plastic, which I personally think is disgusting as I much prefer the old metals. (and its their own damn product ffs)
If that is true, that is bull$*&#.
This has not happen in my region of the world, My Juan Diaz Daemonettes are allowed in game play because it is such an unusual and beautiful army to field on a game table. It tends to bring customers in to see what is going on.
Secondly, their has been an increase of people (in my region at least) wanting to play a pre heresy space marines. I highly doubt that GW is going to stop this because it sells models that are used for conversion purposes.
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Post by: ArbeitsSchu
Frazzled wrote:ArbeitsSchu wrote:I think what people are likely to find is that many GW "Managers" are in fact the sort of power-mad butthole that got into wargaming entirely because they get to tell little men what to do. The kind of mentality that, when given real power, gets people killed. Think in terms of Ross from Friends in Band of Brothers.
Wow its rare to come across someone even close to the same level of bitterness and distrust that Frazzled has, but it appears we have one. I will set you high in my counsel young padiwon.
Nay sir, tis ancient cynicism based on long experience of all manner of GW managers, dating back to some of the earliest efforts to be a "proper" shop. I've met them all. The guy who used the shop as a crash pad after long nights of drugs and clubbing (who was actually quite cool), the guy who had a suspect tendency to "see" very young women in dark corners of local pubs, the round guy who thought he was in the CIA and gave away free stuff to girls he liked, the guy who used it as a platform to start his own shop up which he only ever stocked with games he wanted to play, the guy who got fired for about fifty counts of gross misconduct and may also have been offering favours to regulars of a terribly wrong kind (and looked like the cook from the BBC TV version of Gormenghast), or the really hairy guy who may have been an Orc and definitely drank a whole 9 gallon barrel of bitter on his own once then fell asleep with his shirt off (again). There are more.. so many more..and so many of them (but not all of them) were so far inserted in their own power-play that they would have annexed the Sudetenland given the chance.
Oddly, one of the coolest was the first guy. Shop was popping in his regime. And not because of his drugs habit.
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Post by: Pacific
ArbeitsSchu wrote:Frazzled wrote:ArbeitsSchu wrote:I think what people are likely to find is that many GW "Managers" are in fact the sort of power-mad butthole that got into wargaming entirely because they get to tell little men what to do. The kind of mentality that, when given real power, gets people killed. Think in terms of Ross from Friends in Band of Brothers.
Wow its rare to come across someone even close to the same level of bitterness and distrust that Frazzled has, but it appears we have one. I will set you high in my counsel young padiwon.
Nay sir, tis ancient cynicism based on long experience of all manner of GW managers, dating back to some of the earliest efforts to be a "proper" shop. I've met them all. The guy who used the shop as a crash pad after long nights of drugs and clubbing (who was actually quite cool), the guy who had a suspect tendency to "see" very young women in dark corners of local pubs, the round guy who thought he was in the CIA and gave away free stuff to girls he liked, the guy who used it as a platform to start his own shop up which he only ever stocked with games he wanted to play, the guy who got fired for about fifty counts of gross misconduct and may also have been offering favours to regulars of a terribly wrong kind (and looked like the cook from the BBC TV version of Gormenghast), or the really hairy guy who may have been an Orc and definitely drank a whole 9 gallon barrel of bitter on his own once then fell asleep with his shirt off (again). There are more.. so many more..and so many of them (but not all of them) were so far inserted in their own power-play that they would have annexed the Sudetenland given the chance.
Oddly, one of the coolest was the first guy. Shop was popping in his regime. And not because of his drugs habit.
Thank you for this post, a very amusing read and I agree entirely. I think every GW in the UK has had one of these managers at some point, although sadly I think their numbers are at an all-time low nowadays.
I think had I had previous edition models banned from use, I would go beyond just an email which can get easily lost in the maelstrom - write a hand written letter and make phone calls. The company is more 'corporate' now than ever before, but I still think there is a core of people at the heart of the company who have a genuine love for the hobby just like you and I. And like any genuine hobbyist, they would be repulsed by that ruling concerning the older models, and might well do something about it.
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Post by: bluedestiny
I have a questions. would my models here should be allowed or not, to be used at my local GW.
Cause i'm told i'm not allowed to use them, due to them not 100% GW model by the staff.
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Post by: nkelsch
bluedestiny wrote:I have a questions. would my models here should be allowed or not, to be used at my local GW.
Cause i'm told i'm not allowed to use them, due to them not 100% GW model by the staff.
You answered your own question...
But a paintjob and rule of cool goes a long way with discretionary policies... clearly showing the bare parts really shows how not GW they really are.
Where did you get the dress legs?
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Post by: bluedestiny
@Nkelsch: Mircoarts studio= Knights Legs and i did ask "should" i be able to use them or not.
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Post by: Andilus Greatsword
My GW has a 75% GW Bitz rule, although they're rather lax on this - they like my TWC which are about 40% GW Bitz, and they've let me use a 100% scratch-built drop pod before too.
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Post by: Pacific
Going from the OP, the model must be 100% GW. However, that was in the US, so it might not be a world wide directive yet.
If you really want to use the models, it might be worthwhile a call or email to Aus HQ and see what they say.
If you get a negative reply, you will have to go with what nkelsch has said - give them a paint job, and either go to a different store, or wait for a staff change (GW being what it is, that shouldn't be that long). As has been often said in this thread, the best and most certain defence is not to draw attention to the non-GW bits, if you do you force the hand of the staff even if personally they might not want to.
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Post by: General Hobbs
I remember when I rolled into the GW US HQ with my Ravenguard army back in 2001. I had decals from Griffon games, and one of the redshirts came in and grilled me about them. I told him I made them, and he backed down.
Just say you sculpted and cast the parts yourself. If they say it looks like scibor's work, just tell them you copied it.
Ditto with chapterhouse shoulderpads etc.
Read up on making molds and casting in resin and metal in case they ask you how you did it..
If they want to call you a liar, call up the HQ and complain. It's a good way to lose customers, which they don't want to do.
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Post by: NAVARRO
General Hobbs wrote:
I remember when I rolled into the GW US HQ with my Ravenguard army back in 2001. I had decals from Griffon games, and one of the redshirts came in and grilled me about them. I told him I made them, and he backed down.
Just say you sculpted and cast the parts yourself. If they say it looks like scibor's work, just tell them you copied it.
Ditto with chapterhouse shoulderpads etc.
Read up on making molds and casting in resin and metal in case they ask you how you did it..
If they want to call you a liar, call up the HQ and complain. It's a good way to lose customers, which they don't want to do.
If he painted the miniatures he should not even need to talk about casting.
Paint and just say you sculpted them if you really want to play at those stores...
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Post by: Eilif
bluedestiny wrote:I have a questions. would my models here should be allowed or not, to be used at my local GW.
Cause i'm told i'm not allowed to use them, due to them not 100% GW model by the staff.
As mentioned above, your situation calls attention to a very interesting and only rarely mentioned facet of this discussion that can be summed up in two questions
Some managers will throw a fit no matter what, but..
How many of these 100% GW dictates from managers are connected to unpainted models?
How many folks thrown out for non- GW stuff are "cought" because their models are unpainted?
If a model is fully painted, it's much harder to tell whether it has aftermarket parts and easier for a manager to let it slide. However, so many of the models that appear on FLGS and GW tables are not painted and it's very easy to spot resin parts on a plastic or metal model or other model parts grafted on to a GW model. The above is a great example. Just frakin' paint it and it's likely that no one will notice, but if you plunk it down at a GW then it's pretty obvious that you're putting non GW product on the table, and the implied message could easily be "hey look at this, the GW model wasn't good enough...". Other examples that have been mentioned:
Metal or resin heads on Cadians.
Resin Soulder pads on marines.
etc, etc.
I think that in many situations, it likely comes down to these two key observations.
1) If it's painted, with a GW figure as the base, it's a great showcase of a GW model.
2) If it's unpainted, it's a very clear advertisement for someone elses product.
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Post by: Worglock
redeyed wrote:In a GW not to far from me, they dont allow you to use older GW models
you have to use "current edition"
.
that is a direct violation of company policy. A quick call to customer service (ask for an area manager if you need to) will get the whole store staff cleaned out.
Some friends and I did that to a store a few years ago with a staffer that gave us guf about my friends Squat army being used as Imperial Guard.
Area manager drove to the store, met with us outside, went into the store and within 5 minutes the area manager was manning the store and the staff (2 redshirts and a manager) were out the door.
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Post by: Pacific
Worglock wrote:redeyed wrote:In a GW not to far from me, they dont allow you to use older GW models
you have to use "current edition"
.
that is a direct violation of company policy. A quick call to customer service (ask for an area manager if you need to) will get the whole store staff cleaned out.
Some friends and I did that to a store a few years ago with a staffer that gave us guf about my friends Squat army being used as Imperial Guard.
Area manager drove to the store, met with us outside, went into the store and within 5 minutes the area manager was manning the store and the staff (2 redshirts and a manager) were out the door.
That sounds like a delightful story, and rough justice in a Clint Eastwood kind of way (just missing them being beaten on the quick draw, and sliding slowly to the ground with bullet holes in them). How long were the staff deposed for?
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Post by: Howard A Treesong
Pacific wrote:If you are sensible about it, you will be able to continue using your 3rd party bits, regardless of this latest proclamation.
I've used a variety of maxmini and pig iron bits, as well as conversion combinations from various GW kits, I have never ever had any trouble - and this includes the fact that one store I frequented had a real GW zealot manager who would have crawled naked through broken glass and flung himself infront of a truck if a directive from HQ told him to.
Whenever I've been quizzed about them, the answer I always give is 'green stuff' or 'plasticard'. So for my batch of maxmini heads I get praised for my immense green stuffing skills, to which I shrug modestly, and then I continue with the game.
I don't see why you would lie to staff or be surreptitious or covert in the use of your army just to bag a game in their shop, is it really worth it? Doesn't sit right with me, it's obvious they don't want your models or your kind of hobby on their premises so why give them patronage?
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Post by: AvatarForm
Eilif wrote:bluedestiny wrote:I have a questions. would my models here should be allowed or not, to be used at my local GW.
Cause i'm told i'm not allowed to use them, due to them not 100% GW model by the staff.
As mentioned above, your situation calls attention to a very interesting and only rarely mentioned facet of this discussion that can be summed up in two questions
Some managers will throw a fit no matter what, but..
How many of these 100% GW dictates from managers are connected to unpainted models?
How many folks thrown out for non- GW stuff are "cought" because their models are unpainted?
If a model is fully painted, it's much harder to tell whether it has aftermarket parts and easier for a manager to let it slide. However, so many of the models that appear on FLGS and GW tables are not painted and it's very easy to spot resin parts on a plastic or metal model or other model parts grafted on to a GW model. The above is a great example. Just frakin' paint it and it's likely that no one will notice, but if you plunk it down at a GW then it's pretty obvious that you're putting non GW product on the table, and the implied message could easily be "hey look at this, the GW model wasn't good enough...". Other examples that have been mentioned:
...I think that in many situations, it likely comes down to these two key observations.
1) If it's painted, with a GW figure as the base, it's a great showcase of a GW model.
2) If it's unpainted, it's a very clear advertisement for someone elses product.
This.
GW Retail Managers should support your painted minis as they would no doubt enforce the imagery of the grimdark universe... inspiring new and existing GW gamers to copy or attempt their own... this should increase their sales...
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Post by: Redbeard
Frazzled wrote:What he said, but add in some weiner dogs, a large machete, and a bottle of Patron.
Geeze, Frazzled, what are you planning to do to those dogs?
OT: Maybe I don't get see any of this because I'm older or look scary. No GW manager has ever tried to tell me what I could or could not do, even in the store. One redshirt was somewhat upset that I had my netbook open with armybuilder running on it. I told him to ask his manager if he really wanted to tell me not to use it. The manager told the redshirt that I was a paying customer and that there was no problem with me using it. I doubt this is any sort of company-wide policy.
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Post by: Pacific
With regards to the OP, if you actually read the thread on the other forum, there are a number of interesting replies. Quite a few people have quizzed their local managers, from various locations around the world, and the reply was not a uniform one. It seems like it is very much open to the interpretation of the manager, and that such a rule has existed for some time. So, it might just be down to the luck of the draw in terms of what 'type' of staff you have working in your local GW.
Howard A Treesong wrote:Pacific wrote:If you are sensible about it, you will be able to continue using your 3rd party bits, regardless of this latest proclamation.
I've used a variety of maxmini and pig iron bits, as well as conversion combinations from various GW kits, I have never ever had any trouble - and this includes the fact that one store I frequented had a real GW zealot manager who would have crawled naked through broken glass and flung himself infront of a truck if a directive from HQ told him to.
Whenever I've been quizzed about them, the answer I always give is 'green stuff' or 'plasticard'. So for my batch of maxmini heads I get praised for my immense green stuffing skills, to which I shrug modestly, and then I continue with the game.
I don't see why you would lie to staff or be surreptitious or covert in the use of your army just to bag a game in their shop, is it really worth it? Doesn't sit right with me, it's obvious they don't want your models or your kind of hobby on their premises so why give them patronage?
I don't really think of it as a big deal.
One of the chaps in my local store I have known for a while. He is a hobbyist first and GW employee second, and so I don't have to bother lying to him about where the models come from. However, the manager is a different story entirely, and will toe the company line. So, it's something I have to do if I play in the store. Point being, I can't always get to a club (there are very few in my area, and the one that does operate doesn't have a lot of 40k) so essentially I have no other choice if I want to play, although I do play at home on occasion. I hate that I feel I have to lie about it - I would love to talk about it openly, the conversions and whatnot, but in this case beggars can't be choosers unfortunately.
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Post by: Frazzled
Redbeard wrote:Frazzled wrote:What he said, but add in some weiner dogs, a large machete, and a bottle of Patron.
Geeze, Frazzled, what are you planning to do to those dogs?
OT: Maybe I don't get see any of this because I'm older or look scary. No GW manager has ever tried to tell me what I could or could not do, even in the store. One redshirt was somewhat upset that I had my netbook open with armybuilder running on it. I told him to ask his manager if he really wanted to tell me not to use it. The manager told the redshirt that I was a paying customer and that there was no problem with me using it. I doubt this is any sort of company-wide policy.
Same. Its been awhile but when I was running Armored Company or mech guard back in the day I had a pair of Tamiya King Tigers kitted with FW Vanquisher turrents, Cadians, and GW vehicle bits. I also have a hellhound made of a chimera hull and one of said KingTiger turrents as the base turrent. These were played in two different GW stores. I never had an issue other than complements on the conversion, but was always ready to note that the FW stuff cost more than the rest of the models.
Of course back then we would use paper chit armies to represent armies or fleets we were testing without problem as well. Automatically Appended Next Post: Redbeard wrote:Frazzled wrote:What he said, but add in some weiner dogs, a large machete, and a bottle of Patron.
Geeze, Frazzled, what are you planning to do to those dogs?
Wrong thinking. One should be thinking, what are they dogs telling me to do for them? 
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Post by: Balance
Frazzled wrote:Redbeard wrote:Frazzled wrote:What he said, but add in some weiner dogs, a large machete, and a bottle of Patron.
Geeze, Frazzled, what are you planning to do to those dogs?
Wrong thinking. One should be thinking, what are they dogs telling me to do for them?
I assume it involves shots and mayhem.
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Post by: Kanluwen
AvatarForm wrote:
This.
GW Retail Managers should support your painted minis as they would no doubt enforce the imagery of the grimdark universe... inspiring new and existing GW gamers to copy or attempt their own... this should increase their sales...
I guess that explains why they've been kind of clamping down on the more meme inspired armies, huh.
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Post by: BrassScorpion
This is news to me...
It would be news if it was true. Oh, it's on the Internet so it must be true? Well you can't kill an idea, but that doesn't make it true no matter how much it catches on. I have seen no indication of anything like this in any of the GW stores I frequent and several of us had a good laugh over this rumor with the manager of one of my local GW stores today. No such directive was issued at the GW retail conference last week. But that won't stop people from continuing to complain and be outraged by this for another 10 or 20 pages of posting, will it? Is it possible a single overzealous manager did something like this? Well of course it is and maybe that's what happened. However, there is no veracity to the idea that this is now a company policy.
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Post by: Kanluwen
BrassScorpion wrote:This is news to me...
It would be news if it was true. Oh, it's on the Internet so it must be true? Well you can't kill an idea, but that doesn't make it true no matter how much it catches on. I have seen no indication of anything like this in any of the GW stores I frequent and several of us had a good laugh over this rumor with the manager of one of my local GW stores today. But that won't stop people from continuing to complain and be outraged by this for another 10 or 20 pages of posting, will it?
BrassScorpion, how dare you ruin our alarmist attitude with logic.
You...you...you FUNRUINER!
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Post by: hemingway
Agamemnon2 wrote:I'm continually surprised GW lets me play with GW models from the 80s and 90s. If they had an ounce of sense in their thick heads, they'd ban THOSE.
ahah amen. I have an old Space Hulk terminator: the ugliest model ever, with the worst paintjob you can imagine. I field it just for fun.
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Post by: BrassScorpion
I'm continually surprised GW lets me play with GW models from the 80s and 90s. If they had an ounce of sense in their thick heads, they'd ban THOSE.
That came up in conversation today as well with a GW store manager. They don't ban their older models, which is a good thing for those of us who have been buying their product for years. Imagine if you bought something last week and then when the newer version came out a week later they banned it? Yeah, that would go down well.
Classic models, even the uglier really old ones, provide great interest and conversation pieces. I've experienced this many times myself. They also often make the newer versions look better than ever. There is no good reason for them to ban older models and thankfully, they do not.
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Post by: col. krazy kenny
So i guess, that means i can not use my Cottage cheese container Drop pods.Because the container is not GW.
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Post by: gpfunk
I don't buy anything but GW anyway. Forgeworld is too expensive. Hell, I don't even play in GW stores.
Just find somewhere else to play.
And people have brought up this wierd food metaphor far too much. I've eaten in a gakking Wendy's, having carried in a large side of BK fries. I order a sandwich and drink from there, sat down, and ate. No one cared, probably because my food was mostly from Wendy's. Why not make that the same for the GW stores? The majority of the models should be from GW. I mean, 75% isn't too hard.
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Post by: ironhandstraken
they have this rule at my GW (Australia) the only exception it that models can have 3rd party bitz as long as the model is fully painted and has no scratch built GW stuff (FW is ok)
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Post by: Defeatmyarmy
Does this include magnets? All my figures have magnets on the base bottoms to stick to a display board. If they kick me out of the store for that, Id be pranking them everyday with pizza deliveries and putting up huge posters on the wall to turn people away from their store. Ive got a mean hand at photoshop when I need it.
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Post by: BrassScorpion
Defeatmyarmy wrote:Does this include magnets? All my figures have magnets on the base bottoms to stick to a display board. If they kick me out of the store for that, Id be pranking them everyday with pizza deliveries and putting up huge posters on the wall to turn people away from their store. Ive got a mean hand at photoshop when I need it.
It doesn't include magnets because it's not true. Read my post above.
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Post by: Defeatmyarmy
BrassScorpion wrote:Defeatmyarmy wrote:Does this include magnets? All my figures have magnets on the base bottoms to stick to a display board. If they kick me out of the store for that, Id be pranking them everyday with pizza deliveries and putting up huge posters on the wall to turn people away from their store. Ive got a mean hand at photoshop when I need it.
It doesn't include magnets because it's not true. Read my post above.
Whoops, only read the first page. Mental note: Always read the most recent page before summoning the angry marines.
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Post by: Worglock
Pacific wrote:Worglock wrote:redeyed wrote:In a GW not to far from me, they dont allow you to use older GW models
you have to use "current edition"
.
that is a direct violation of company policy. A quick call to customer service (ask for an area manager if you need to) will get the whole store staff cleaned out.
Some friends and I did that to a store a few years ago with a staffer that gave us guf about my friends Squat army being used as Imperial Guard.
Area manager drove to the store, met with us outside, went into the store and within 5 minutes the area manager was manning the store and the staff (2 redshirts and a manager) were out the door.
That sounds like a delightful story, and rough justice in a Clint Eastwood kind of way (just missing them being beaten on the quick draw, and sliding slowly to the ground with bullet holes in them). How long were the staff deposed for?
To my knowledge, permanently.
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Post by: Porcupine el Josh
Does this mean I can't play with magnetized flying bases on my Eldar grav-tanks?
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Post by: chromedog
Worglock wrote:
To my knowledge, permanently.
Doesn't take much to get canned under our "workplace relations" laws. Even less if you are a "casual" employee (which most of the store employees are).
There are "immediately sackable" offences and "warning level" offences.
Full timers have some degree of protection, but the "immediately sackable" offences also cover them. The only difference is how much pay in-lieu of notice they get.
All of the cool guys I've known at GW no longer work in gaming. Most work in the travel sector now (as most were avid snowboarders).
The only one I've known who was sacked was done for one of the "I.S" offences (relating to alcohol and minors and work hours).
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Post by: Pacific
Yes but would not letting someone play with their army constitute an immediately sackable offence? I'm not quibbling that the guys were obviously of questionable character for banning old GW models in the store, but it still seems a little OTT.
Unless of course the 'you are not playing with that army in here' was immediately followed by a drunken bellow and an almost empty bottle of whisky being thrown in their direction?
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Post by: Ugavine
So I'm guessing this would not be allowed in a GW store then? Unless GW started selling LEDs.
It's from the GW homepage today BTW.
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Post by: Kanluwen
Ugavine wrote:So I'm guessing this would not be allowed in a GW store then? Unless GW started selling LEDs.
It's from the GW homepage today BTW.
Why wouldn't it be allowed in a GW store?
It's the basic kit. Nothing has been removed, only things added. The things added were not from a competing company or an outside source such as a toy.
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Post by: ArbeitsSchu
Kanluwen wrote:Ugavine wrote:So I'm guessing this would not be allowed in a GW store then? Unless GW started selling LEDs.
It's from the GW homepage today BTW.
Why wouldn't it be allowed in a GW store?
It's the basic kit. Nothing has been removed, only things added. The things added were not from a competing company or an outside source such as a toy.
Wait, why would "a toy" be bad? One of the best sources for cheap LEDs and such bumf is cheap kids toys. As if a redshirt could "source" a little lightbulb anyway....
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Post by: Kanluwen
ArbeitsSchu wrote:
Wait, why would "a toy" be bad? One of the best sources for cheap LEDs and such bumf is cheap kids toys. As if a redshirt could "source" a little lightbulb anyway....
Supposedly the 'new' rule prohibits non-miniature wargame toys--as in action figure vehicles, etc-- from being slapped down on the table.
It's kind of understandable to not want that done.
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Post by: AvatarForm
Ugavine wrote:So I'm guessing this would not be allowed in a GW store then? Unless GW started selling LEDs.
It's from the GW homepage today BTW.
You are simply being obtuse.
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Post by: ArbeitsSchu
Kanluwen wrote:ArbeitsSchu wrote:
Wait, why would "a toy" be bad? One of the best sources for cheap LEDs and such bumf is cheap kids toys. As if a redshirt could "source" a little lightbulb anyway....
Supposedly the 'new' rule prohibits non-miniature wargame toys--as in action figure vehicles, etc-- from being slapped down on the table.
It's kind of understandable to not want that done.
Ah, so just using a pound-shop police car would be frowned upon. I'm thinking more of gutting a pound shop police car and sticking the resulting wiring into a Rhino to make Arbites Rhinos (which was once, long ago, a plan of mine.)
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Post by: Ugavine
AvatarForm wrote:
You are simply being obtuse.
I'm an ORK - DAKKA DAKKA!!!
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Post by: alphaecho
I used my Praetorians on Thursday in my local store's Games Night. I was shocked by the number of gamers who did not realise they are GW product (now disavowed). The veterans I have made using Wargames Factory/ Secret Weapon heads and Victoria Lamb's kilted legs with cadian parts were passed around and commented on but I would not use them on the table, mainly to avoid putting the staff in the awkward position of having to ask me to take them off if such a directive actually exists. There are plenty of other places for me to use them in an army list.
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Post by: Kanluwen
Ugavine wrote:AvatarForm wrote:
You are simply being obtuse.
I'm an ORK - DAKKA DAKKA!!!
I'd say a troll, actually.
ArbeitsSchu wrote:
Ah, so just using a pound-shop police car would be frowned upon. I'm thinking more of gutting a pound shop police car and sticking the resulting wiring into a Rhino to make Arbites Rhinos (which was once, long ago, a plan of mine.)
I think just putting the pound-shop police car by itself, with no modifications done at all, down would be frowned upon.
But a grimdarkified pound shop police car might be a different story
alphaecho wrote:I used my Praetorians on Thursday in my local store's Games Night. I was shocked by the number of gamers who did not realise they are GW product (now disavowed).
Wait, someone actually 'disavowed' the Praetorians?
This sounds kind of fishy. Or were you meaning "discontinued"?
Because the two meanings are nowhere near the same.
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Post by: alphaecho
I've gone for disavowed (tongue in cheek) rather than discontinued due to the rumour that GW were "embarrassed" about them. They have not been in the last two codexes and the Glazer's Creek battle rules when redone in the Citadel Journal used Mordians instead.
But I have 4500 points worth and will never stop flying their flag!!
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Post by: Kanluwen
alphaecho wrote:I've gone for disavowed (tongue in cheek) rather than discontinued due to the rumour that GW were "embarrassed" about them. They have not been in the last two codexes and the Glazer's Creek battle rules when redone in the Citadel Journal used Mordians instead.
Did you ever think the reason they have not been in the last two codices and the Glazer's Creek battle rules were redone is because they simply didn't have enough Praetorians floating around the studio to use? Or that they didn't want to do a repeat of the original Praetorian situation, wherein people flipped out that the models were 'limited editions'?
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Post by: alphaecho
In the UK at least, they were available for some time after the initial box release, even to the point they were available in blisters instore and additional models were available (extra lasgun variants and the missile launcher team). I picked up a lot of mine when Mail Order were running an "any Imperial Guard squad and Chimera" deal but that is going back to late 1999. But that's going off topic. As far as discontinued models go, I've never had a problem in store, even to the stage of still using a Space Crusade Chaos dreadnought.
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Post by: Ugavine
Kanluwen wrote:Ugavine wrote:AvatarForm wrote:
You are simply being obtuse.
I'm an ORK - DAKKA DAKKA!!!
I'd say a troll, actually.
Well I was actually being serious with my original post. The LED Land Raider is not 100% GW, the title of this thread is, " GW Store 100% GW model only rule - ANY company product banned from in store use." And I'm pretty sure quite a few of the showcase models featured on the GW site are not 100% GW, especially the bases. I was also responding light-heartedly after being insulted and you had to join in.
GW are perfectly within their rights to say yes or no to anything in their store, they can refuse an official model if they want and can refuse to serve anyone without reason.
And just as GW has the right to make in store policies every customer has just as much right to shop or play elsewhere. There is way too much moaning and complaining about Games Worksshop, I wonder why anyone actually plays if they hate them so much.
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Post by: redeyed
for me its a case of:
really like the models, like the game, like the story, dislike the company lol.
been playing for 15 years now on/off and have really enjoyed the hobby, when I gripe its not because I hate all things GW its more I hate what GW is trying to become >.<
edit: I try not to whinge quite as much these days though, as lets face it, they will do whatever they like, I can only dictate my own actions. I only tend to pipe up if I see something outrageous like the new TK bat price or like I noted before the silly manager banning older models (although luckily the GW I go to now has a much more reasonable manager!)
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Post by: Kanluwen
Ugavine wrote:Kanluwen wrote:Ugavine wrote:AvatarForm wrote:
You are simply being obtuse.
I'm an ORK - DAKKA DAKKA!!!
I'd say a troll, actually.
Well I was actually being serious with my original post. The LED Land Raider is not 100% GW, the title of this thread is, " GW Store 100% GW model only rule - ANY company product banned from in store use."
And?
The LED Land Raider is 100% GW. The lights account for absolutely none of the outer make-up of the model. That's what GW would be looking at.
They don't care if you hollow out part of your vehicles and add in lights. They do care when you spurn buying things from Forge World in favor of buying from companies profiting off their ideas.
They don't care if you buy plasticard and Green Stuff from outside sources and make something yourself.
And I'm pretty sure quite a few of the showcase models featured on the GW site are not 100% GW, especially the bases.
Yes, but if the submitters don't give GW the information--you won't see it credited. They don't have teams combing the Internet matching photos of your model pieces to some third party company, then dispatching strike teams afterwards.
I was also responding light-heartedly after being insulted and you had to join in.
You were making a post that's intended to take the 'rule' to the very limit and trying to get a response from people. These kinds of threads always end up as hatefests, and there's no need whatsoever to make posts like that within them.
GW are perfectly within their rights to say yes or no to anything in their store, they can refuse an official model if they want and can refuse to serve anyone without reason.
And just as GW has the right to make in store policies every customer has just as much right to shop or play elsewhere. There is way too much moaning and complaining about Games Workshop, I wonder why anyone actually plays if they hate them so much.
Yes, they do. However, it would be very much appreciated if you don't make posts that are easily read as yet more inflammatory dribble thrown onto an already burning forest fire of misdirected and ill-conceived hatred.
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Post by: Ugavine
inflammatory dribble?
In what way?
If you find my Land Raider post offense then please report it to the moderators and I will discuss it with them. But is this entire thread not just another moan at Games Workshop?
Anyway, OT;
We were discussing 100% models. If you field a Dreadnought on a base from another shop it is not 100%.
Yes this is the extreme, but if the rule is 100% then that is the extreme. The Land Raider pic in my post is not 100% because it has the LEDS making it about 99%. Otherwise my Ork Land Raider is 100% with it's fishfood pot Deff-Roller, after all the actual Land Raider is 100% GW. But no, that model is not 100% and I accept that.
I understand that people can get very defensive about models they have spent money and time on but GW is a business.
Personally I think that any reasonable model will be accepted in store if the player has the sense and common deceny to approach the manger first and ask permission.
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Post by: Kanluwen
The "100%" only counts towards the model itself.
Replacing any part of the model's structure puts that percentage down. Adding anything on is simply that: an addition.
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Post by: carmachu
Kanluwen wrote:Why wouldn't it be allowed in a GW store?
It's the basic kit. Nothing has been removed, only things added. The things added were not from a competing company or an outside source such as a toy.
Because by GW's rules, its not 100% GW items. The items added are things GW doesnt sell. There's no difference between a shoulder pad added from a company and LED lights. Both are added for better effect.
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Post by: Kanluwen
carmachu wrote:Kanluwen wrote:Why wouldn't it be allowed in a GW store?
It's the basic kit. Nothing has been removed, only things added. The things added were not from a competing company or an outside source such as a toy.
Because by GW's rules, its not 100% GW items. The items added are things GW doesnt sell. There's no difference between a shoulder pad added from a company and LED lights. Both are added for better effect.
Actually there is.
A "shoulderpad added from a company" replaces an existing part. LED lights don't.
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Post by: Worglock
Kanluwen wrote:The "100%" only counts towards the model itself.
Replacing any part of the model's structure puts that percentage down. Adding anything on is simply that: an addition.
ummm. No.
Addition doesn't work like that.
A 100% GW model is GW parts ONLY. Adding non GW parts would make it X% GW + Y% whatever else.
You're bad and you should feel bad. But you won't, because you troll every thread you show up in and then call someone else a troll to deflect.
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Post by: Scott-S6
Captain Jack wrote:Vet status means that you are able to stand on your own two feet and toodle across to a club or start a club between yourselves. Lots of others have managed it, and then you get to be Das Heil and make your own rules. How cool is that?
Even better, people that are disruptive can simply be asked to never return.
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Post by: Kilkrazy
Worglock wrote:Kanluwen wrote:The "100%" only counts towards the model itself.
Replacing any part of the model's structure puts that percentage down. Adding anything on is simply that: an addition.
ummm. No.
Addition doesn't work like that.
A 100% GW model is GW parts ONLY. Adding non GW parts would make it X% GW + Y% whatever else.
You're bad and you should feel bad. But you won't, because you troll every thread you show up in and then call someone else a troll to deflect.
Kanluwen isn't a troll.
He defends GW a lot -- in this case he is right.
There is an obvious difference between adding lights, and replacing a substantive part of a model with an after market substitute.
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Post by: ArbeitsSchu
Kilkrazy wrote:Worglock wrote:Kanluwen wrote:The "100%" only counts towards the model itself.
Replacing any part of the model's structure puts that percentage down. Adding anything on is simply that: an addition.
ummm. No.
Addition doesn't work like that.
A 100% GW model is GW parts ONLY. Adding non GW parts would make it X% GW + Y% whatever else.
You're bad and you should feel bad. But you won't, because you troll every thread you show up in and then call someone else a troll to deflect.
Kanluwen isn't a troll.
He defends GW a lot -- in this case he is right.
There is an obvious difference between adding lights, and replacing a substantive part of a model with an after market substitute.
He is right. There is a difference. After all, people use all manner of things on models without issue. Its mostly just these specific after-market kits from direct competition that are the sore point. Not that Eduard doing etched brass parts for Tamiya kits ever caused Tamiya any problems. GW really needs to get wise about the concept.
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Post by: Captain Jack
Scott-S6 wrote:Captain Jack wrote:Vet status means that you are able to stand on your own two feet and toodle across to a club or start a club between yourselves. Lots of others have managed it, and then you get to be Das Heil and make your own rules. How cool is that?
Even better, people that are disruptive can simply be asked to never return.
Indeed. I have never understood the nerd rage that GW stores get on forums such as these. It's almost as though a retail store has to bend its knee to every whim of every 14 year old (age or outlook), who stamps their feet and crys at every slight either real or percieved. The stores are for support and to bring fresh blood into the games, not to provide a club to players who should be able to form a club and thus play games at their own leisure and points. Therefore not having to make way for sales (the reason for the shop) to happen.
Some people should know better, as they aren't neccessarily in GW's good books, nvillachi, I'm looking your way. Stirring nerd rage is never a good thing, some of the 14 year olds might vote with their wallets and stop buying third part kits
To finish on a good note, maybe this policy will make some of the lazier people to look for or start clubs. Claiming that there are too many difficulties might be overidden by the desire to play on their own terms... or maybe not
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Post by: Onnotangu
When GW can keep a store in the greater michigan area is when they can tell me what to bring or not bring.
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Post by: Kanluwen
ArbeitsSchu wrote:
He is right. There is a difference. After all, people use all manner of things on models without issue. Its mostly just these specific after-market kits from direct competition that are the sore point. Not that Eduard doing etched brass parts for Tamiya kits ever caused Tamiya any problems. GW really needs to get wise about the concept.
This is where things get fun.
In the case of Eduard doing photo-etched brass parts for Tamiya kits--Tamiya can't really do anything to stop them. The products they're making, in most cases, they do not own the likenesses to the object they're representing. Historical miniatures are kind of a 'gray area' in that regard as it's something real and tangible and there's no real "IP" involved outside of the company who originally produced it, which in many cases during WWII there was no one 'company' producing the item in question.
There was a fascinating article a few years back in a Fine Scale Modeler about how automotive companies are starting to crack down and requiring licensing from companies doing model kits of their cars. Dodge/Chrysler started it by trying to have a Willy's Jeep kit pulled for not accurately representing the original vehicle.
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Post by: ChaosWarhound
I understand why GW would do this to prevent their customers going to competitors but i doubt customers would be too happy about this.
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Post by: mikhaila
ChaosWarhound wrote:I understand why GW would do this to prevent their customers going to competitors but i doubt customers would be too happy about this.
Just a guess, but may also have something to do with the CH lawsuit. Allowing CH bitz on models played in their stores could be brought up as evidence that those conversion bits are an accepted part of the hobby. Again, WAG on my part, based on the timing.
And, having had to play against some armies using plastic barnyard animals, and seeing a Peter Pan Crocodile as Throgg, I have a lot of sympathy for the 'no toys' portion.)
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Post by: 4oursword
one of my friends broke eomer's foot and made a base out of lego
The same guy glued his wazdakka conversion to a standard lego brick for a stand and was surprised when the entire club noticed.
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Post by: Captain Jack
mikhaila wrote:ChaosWarhound wrote:I understand why GW would do this to prevent their customers going to competitors but i doubt customers would be too happy about this.
Just a guess, but may also have something to do with the CH lawsuit. Allowing CH bitz on models played in their stores could be brought up as evidence that those conversion bits are an accepted part of the hobby. Again, WAG on my part, based on the timing.
And, having had to play against some armies using plastic barnyard animals, and seeing a Peter Pan Crocodile as Throgg, I have a lot of sympathy for the 'no toys' portion.)
Probably not far from the truth on consideration, especially on noting the location of the store. Hmmm, how to get fr... nah I'll stop there. I would still go to the shops in the frame of mind that if something is painted up nicely and it wasn't too obvious that it was 3rd party, and it wasn't shouted about then I can't see the manger having too much of a problem. Like I said earlier in the thread I run loads of different stuff that isn't strictly GW all the way through.
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Post by: Toastedandy
Kanluwen wrote:The "100%" only counts towards the model itself.
Replacing any part of the model's structure puts that percentage down. Adding anything on is simply that: an addition.
'Jellyfish are 97% water. Give it 3% water, its water'
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Post by: Kanluwen
Toastedandy wrote:Kanluwen wrote:The "100%" only counts towards the model itself.
Replacing any part of the model's structure puts that percentage down. Adding anything on is simply that: an addition.
'Jellyfish are 97% water. Give it 3% water, its water'
Yeah...no.
We'll use a Space Marine model for this example.
Let's say we take a Space Marine Captain. We use the parts off the sprue to assemble the body, but leave off the shoulderpads to replace them with some third party's shoulderpads for "Star Knights".
The shoulderpads are an 'essential part of the kit', with the model not recognizably being complete without the bulky shoulderpads.
Now, let's say we assemble that same Space Marine Captain and leave on the standard shoulderpads. We then sculpt him a robe or a tabard.
Did we leave off any part of the model? No? Then it's "100% GW". The only thing not GW is from you 'going the extra mile' to make the model recognizably yours.
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Post by: nkelsch
Hobby supplies are usually not counted towards any of the %%. LED lights are hobby supplies the same way plasticard turned into bolt-on plates on an ork looted wagon are.
People are purposely being obtuse in the name of justifying manufactured unreasonable outrage.
This rule (that has been heard second hand and doesn't have a piece of paper yet for us to parse like some RAW rulebook) is a way for a manager to control his store and expel someone who is using products that don't promote GWs stores models and sales.
When you give a percentage, how are we to figure it out? Take the mass of the model and have 75% GW? Take the surface area? Body proportions? How much is a head worth? how much is a base worth? how much is a weapon worth?
Really simple, 100% which means if a GW employee sees your army has any of these 3rd party parts and is causing an issue or promoting other companies products, your models are not welcome. An LED is not going to cause concern and therefor they simply don't bother with it.
And this is not civil rights, it is not like you can say 'Seee? his model has an LED headlight! zero tolerance freedom for the oppressed.' They can pretty much throw you out for any reason and allow other people to stay for any reason.
If you don't like it and game only with models with 3rd party competing parts or stand-in models, then game elsewhere. I suspect a majority of the people with outrage don't actually and never did game at GW stores so there really isn't an issue.
I feel like I am watching Mr Slate try to fire Fred Flintstone and he is responding with , "You can't fire me! I quit!!!" When I see people who don't game at GW or even play GW games really complain about store policies...
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Post by: mikhaila
Toastedandy wrote:Kanluwen wrote:The "100%" only counts towards the model itself.
Replacing any part of the model's structure puts that percentage down. Adding anything on is simply that: an addition.
'Jellyfish are 97% water. Give it 3% water, its water'
nope, it's now 100 out of 103 parts water, and 3 parts out of 103 notwater.
And neither my comment nor yours adds anything to the conversation.
39343
Post by: SebastionSynn
Let's say we take a Space Marine Captain. We use the parts off the sprue to assemble the body, but leave off the shoulderpads to replace them with some third party's shoulderpads for "Star Knights".
The shoulderpads are an 'essential part of the kit', with the model not recognizably being complete without the bulky shoulderpads.
Now, let's say we assemble that same Space Marine Captain and leave on the standard shoulderpads. We then sculpt him a robe or a tabard.
Did we leave off any part of the model? No? Then it's "100% GW". The only thing not GW is from you 'going the extra mile' to make the model recognizably yours.
here's a better example with pics so that people understand your point.
this is 100% GW, but is not recognizable as such because it's been kitbashed from different models, it's a high elf archmage body and staff, a dark eldar needler and arm, a fire dragon head, and a spirit stone from a high elf sword placed on the head.
this on the other is not 100% GW even though the majority of the model looks as if it is, this is using the lower half of a warlock, the upper half of a guardian, a dark eldar hairpiece, Jain Zar's left weapon arm, two shuriken pistols, a GS sash, and plasticard for the wings replacing the upright bits on the guardian backpack. even though the wings are plasticard and GW wouldn't have a problem with this model on the table by replacing the guardian bits with the wings it is not 100%, it would be the same if used Max-mini's dragonfly wings on the model. it would be using third party parts replacing GW parts, it calls attention to itself and by rights they can ask me to either not use it or take my game play elsewhere.
However, this is dragging on and on and is getting ridiculous, so far it has been nothing more than a few store managers who are either anal retentive or have problem players who are being disruptive in some way, but we're not hearing about the disruptive parts of it. After all, who's going to come in to a forum dedicated to warhammer 40K and complain that they were asked to leave a store the other day because they were being a complete ass. it's GW's stores, they pay the rent, the electric bill, the water bill, and the insurance bill, and they can do as they wish. same thing goes for GW tourneys, it's their tourney, so it's their rules. they are not strong-arming you to pay at the door and enter their tourney, you choose to do so, and by that choice you choose to adhere to their rules. if you don't want to adhere to their rules then you are free to play elsewhere or not enter the tourney. if a manager had a problem with your army, then don't use that army in that store, use your other army instead, the one that doesn't have aftermarket stuff on it. it's as simple as that.
40132
Post by: ArbeitsSchu
Kanluwen wrote:ArbeitsSchu wrote:
He is right. There is a difference. After all, people use all manner of things on models without issue. Its mostly just these specific after-market kits from direct competition that are the sore point. Not that Eduard doing etched brass parts for Tamiya kits ever caused Tamiya any problems. GW really needs to get wise about the concept.
This is where things get fun.
In the case of Eduard doing photo-etched brass parts for Tamiya kits--Tamiya can't really do anything to stop them. The products they're making, in most cases, they do not own the likenesses to the object they're representing. Historical miniatures are kind of a 'gray area' in that regard as it's something real and tangible and there's no real "IP" involved outside of the company who originally produced it, which in many cases during WWII there was no one 'company' producing the item in question.
There was a fascinating article a few years back in a Fine Scale Modeler about how automotive companies are starting to crack down and requiring licensing from companies doing model kits of their cars. Dodge/Chrysler started it by trying to have a Willy's Jeep kit pulled for not accurately representing the original vehicle.
True. However, Tamiya are hardly losing bucketloads of cash from their sales because people still buy the kit to start with. It also pushes Tamiya to make better kits, more accurately. If GW really want people to stop using third party bits, they should take a long hard look at the gaping wounds in their product ranges. However, they would be much better served by simply licensing out. People still buy their toys, then spend more money on the extra bits. Everybody still makes money.
Though no doubt Tamiya and others would crap themselves with joy if someone ruled they could trademark Tiger Tanks or whatever. I wouldn't mind reading that article either, but not having a comprehensive collection of FSM, I don't have it.
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Post by: Kanluwen
ArbeitsSchu wrote:Kanluwen wrote:ArbeitsSchu wrote:
He is right. There is a difference. After all, people use all manner of things on models without issue. Its mostly just these specific after-market kits from direct competition that are the sore point. Not that Eduard doing etched brass parts for Tamiya kits ever caused Tamiya any problems. GW really needs to get wise about the concept.
This is where things get fun.
In the case of Eduard doing photo-etched brass parts for Tamiya kits--Tamiya can't really do anything to stop them. The products they're making, in most cases, they do not own the likenesses to the object they're representing. Historical miniatures are kind of a 'gray area' in that regard as it's something real and tangible and there's no real "IP" involved outside of the company who originally produced it, which in many cases during WWII there was no one 'company' producing the item in question.
There was a fascinating article a few years back in a Fine Scale Modeler about how automotive companies are starting to crack down and requiring licensing from companies doing model kits of their cars. Dodge/Chrysler started it by trying to have a Willy's Jeep kit pulled for not accurately representing the original vehicle.
True. However, Tamiya are hardly losing bucketloads of cash from their sales because people still buy the kit to start with. It also pushes Tamiya to make better kits, more accurately. If GW really want people to stop using third party bits, they should take a long hard look at the gaping wounds in their product ranges. However, they would be much better served by simply licensing out. People still buy their toys, then spend more money on the extra bits. Everybody still makes money.
The big thing about the "gaping wounds in their product ranges" is that in some cases it was done before they started doing the 'wave' system.
Though no doubt Tamiya and others would crap themselves with joy if someone ruled they could trademark Tiger Tanks or whatever. I wouldn't mind reading that article either, but not having a comprehensive collection of FSM, I don't have it.
I'll try to dig it up in my collection.
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Post by: AngryMarine
You want me to play GW thunderwolf cav, THEN MAKE THE DAMN MODEL!!! Don't like the batwing being used as a DE vehicle, THEN MAKE THE DAMN MODEL!!!
This is a great benefit for independant stores, and another chance for GW to kick themselves in the teeth. Why give someone a reason to pass your shop by for another?
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Post by: Kanluwen
AngryMarine wrote: You want me to play GW thunderwolf cav, THEN MAKE THE DAMN MODEL!!!
Canis Wolfborn says "sup".
Thunderwolf Cavalry technically have a model you can work from to do conversions.
"It's expensive!" doesn't mean that the option isn't there though.
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Post by: imalave
Everyone on this site understands that GW has the right to exclude any non- GW models or conversion from their stores. However, we as consumers have the option to shop elsewhere, they are plenty of online sites to shop GW products, as well as plenty of gaming stores thoughout the area (Illinois) to go gaming. Most competitive players have their own tables and would never to go to GW to playtest or purchase their items.
Allow GW to be GW, perhaps someday in the near future they will understand that we are not as naive as they would want us to be! I think this is a great opportunity for gaming communities to band together and develop a stronger voice in our hobby!
Remember, without us their is no hobby, without us there is no demand, without us there is no GW! Remember that my friends! Automatically Appended Next Post: Kanluwen wrote:AngryMarine wrote: You want me to play GW thunderwolf cav, THEN MAKE THE DAMN MODEL!!!
Canis Wolfborn says "sup".
Thunderwolf Cavalry technically have a model you can work from to do conversions.
"It's expensive!" doesn't mean that the option isn't there though.
Sure, I agree! But not everyone has $350.00 to spend on the models if your building the standard 5 TWC & 2 WL on thunderwolves! This is just for the models without tax, now we begin to add the greenstuff, other conversion parts, and time & labor, we are looking at somewhere around $550 dollars! WOW! That is a lot of money, regardless if you have the coin for it or not. However, as I stated earlier we as consumers have the choice, we don't have to play at GW, and we can go to MR. Dandy.com and purchase their beautiful TWC ready for action. Once again, it is US the gamers who should dictate what we want and when we want it. Don't endorse their products at their stores, it's up to us.
If GW were to stop shipping their products to other stores, then we should boycott their 40k products, people we have the power. No company can afford to go bankrupt in these times! I believe we are not asking the impossible from GW!
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Post by: nkelsch
ArbeitsSchu wrote:True. However, Tamiya are hardly losing bucketloads of cash from their sales because people still buy the kit to start with. It also pushes Tamiya to make better kits, more accurately. If GW really want people to stop using third party bits, they should take a long hard look at the gaping wounds in their product ranges. However, they would be much better served by simply licensing out. People still buy their toys, then spend more money on the extra bits. Everybody still makes money.
Though no doubt Tamiya and others would crap themselves with joy if someone ruled they could trademark Tiger Tanks or whatever. I wouldn't mind reading that article either, but not having a comprehensive collection of FSM, I don't have it.
Last time I checked, Tamiya didn't run a retail store... and the last time I checked, GW wasn't saying you can't convert their models with 3rd party bitz, just don't bring them to GW stores and events.
Also, consumers are selfish and stupid and don't understand the financial expense and business model. GW technically can compete with itself by releasing too many models at once. They want everything right now!!! GIMMIE GIMMIE GIMMIE!
Many other product lines do this and release things in 'waves' where they eventually produce the models/figures/whatever when they can as the market supports it. The only thing is, they shouldn't have to worry about other companies harming their business by directly competing against them with their own IP. Hasbro should be able to reasonably expect another toy manufacturer won't go an make an optimus prime figure just because hasbro doesn't release one in wave 1 of a merchandise rollout... but yet GW has to make every model/unit/warger/everything wave 1 all at once or expect to have it made elsewhere? This is the weak justification that drives the illegal knock-off market with toys. "if the company made them, I wouldn't be forced to buy knock offs." and the funny thing is, when the company does make the product with their own IP eventually people then claim, "Oh, it is too much the knock-off is cheaper... I am still justified."
If you want to use 3rd-party models, then you are not welcome at GW stores, nor should you be... If you think you can run a business better with different policies, go ahead and start one and run it better. You don't have the right to demand GW run it business in a different way to meet your personal whims, especially when the actions may be self-destructive to please an unreasonable consumer.
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Post by: carmachu
Kanluwen wrote:AngryMarine wrote: You want me to play GW thunderwolf cav, THEN MAKE THE DAMN MODEL!!!
Canis Wolfborn says "sup".
Thunderwolf Cavalry technically have a model you can work from to do conversions.
"It's expensive!" doesn't mean that the option isn't there though.
Doesnt work. Its not a thunderwolf model. Its a Canis wolfborn model. The legs, body and head are all one pice(especially with the longer hair). Only the arms are sperate. Its too difficult of a model to convert for various purposes. I've passed on using parts from it due to that reason.
Expense has nothing to do with it. Usability is the reason, and its not very usable.
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Post by: Kanluwen
carmachu wrote:Kanluwen wrote:AngryMarine wrote: You want me to play GW thunderwolf cav, THEN MAKE THE DAMN MODEL!!!
Canis Wolfborn says "sup".
Thunderwolf Cavalry technically have a model you can work from to do conversions.
"It's expensive!" doesn't mean that the option isn't there though.
Doesnt work. Its not a thunderwolf model. Its a Canis wolfborn model. The legs, body and head are all one pice(especially with the longer hair). Only the arms are sperate. Its too difficult of a model to convert for various purposes. I've passed on using parts from it due to that reason.
Expense has nothing to do with it. Usability is the reason, and its not very usable.
See, now that? That changes everything. I've been under the impression that the head was like how Sammael is and is a separate head.
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Post by: Redbeard
imalave wrote:Everyone on this site understands that GW has the right to exclude any non-GW models or conversion from their stores. However, we as consumers have the option to shop elsewhere, they are plenty of online sites to shop GW products, as well as plenty of gaming stores thoughout the area (Illinois) to go gaming. Most competitive players have their own tables and would never to go to GW to playtest or purchase their items.
Ding Ding. This is my battlewagon from Adepticon. Note the wheels. They came off a $4 toy crane-digger-thing from Toyz-R-Uz. (The one where orks shop, apparently). The front fenders came from a fish-food container.  Any GW employee who tries to tell me that I can't use this because it uses toy wheels will be informed that it also uses parts from at least seven different GW kits (see if you can spot them in the picture, they're all visible) and that they can either let me use it or lose any future sales that I will make. Then I'll ask them to look up my sales total in their computer (they can do this), and they'll back off. Any of these policies are not an issue for people who spend money in a store. They're issues for people who do not spend money in the establishment and expect to use the establishment's resources for free. Good customers will never be kicked out of a store, or told not to use their models, regardless of whether the wheelz came from toyz-r-uz.
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Post by: Kilkrazy
Kanluwen wrote:AngryMarine wrote: You want me to play GW thunderwolf cav, THEN MAKE THE DAMN MODEL!!!
Canis Wolfborn says "sup".
Thunderwolf Cavalry technically have a model you can work from to do conversions.
"It's expensive!" doesn't mean that the option isn't there though.
Technically, having published a codex, GW don't need to produce any models at all. The option is there to green stuff it. The design to work to is in the book.
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Post by: weeble1000
nkelsch wrote:You don't have the right to demand GW run it business in a different way to meet your personal whims, especially when the actions may be self-destructive to please an unreasonable consumer.
Yea, you do have the right to make that demand. If GW (or any company) feels that it is not in its best interest to listen to the demands/concerns/advice/suggestions/requests of any given customer, it has that prerogative. Your opinion that it wouldn't be a good idea to give in to those demands (and you're probably right about that), shouldn't extend into a blanket denial of an individual's right to communicate with a company, especially that company is or will be receiving that individual's business.
The point of this thread is that it is a poor idea for Games Workshop to ban non- GW models, etc. from Hobby Centers because it will potentially alienate customers. Plenty of people agree with that and plenty of people don't. There's interesting arguments on both sides. I don't personally believe it has anything to do with the Chapterhouse lawsuit. If indeed GW Hobby Center managers are pushing this issue of late, I think it is a coincidence. Whether it's healthy for the company or not, these sorts of policies are typical of the way GW has been handling its business and whatever damage has been caused by GW allowing third party products to be used in its retail stores is already out there. Changing or enforcing the policy will at this point accomplish little with regard to the Chapterhouse lawsuit.
On topic, I generally feel that GW is shooting itself in the foot by attempting to cordon off Warhammer from the wargaming industry. I can see that there are good reasons for some of the things that feed into this general strategy (such as not allowing any non- GW models or products in Hobby Centers), but on the whole I think the general strategy is short-sighted. There's a reason Marvel dropped the idea of starting a chain of its own comic stores. I think Games Workshop should be pleased with anything that gets people interested in Warhammer and anything that gets them interested in wargaming in general. It is easier to sell Warhammer to a wargamer than to sell it to some that has no idea what wargaming is.
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Post by: imalave
nkelsch wrote:ArbeitsSchu wrote:True. However, Tamiya are hardly losing bucketloads of cash from their sales because people still buy the kit to start with. It also pushes Tamiya to make better kits, more accurately. If GW really want people to stop using third party bits, they should take a long hard look at the gaping wounds in their product ranges. However, they would be much better served by simply licensing out. People still buy their toys, then spend more money on the extra bits. Everybody still makes money.
Though no doubt Tamiya and others would crap themselves with joy if someone ruled they could trademark Tiger Tanks or whatever. I wouldn't mind reading that article either, but not having a comprehensive collection of FSM, I don't have it.
Last time I checked, Tamiya didn't run a retail store... and the last time I checked, GW wasn't saying you can't convert their models with 3rd party bitz, just don't bring them to GW stores and events.
Also, consumers are selfish and stupid and don't understand the financial expense and business model. GW technically can compete with itself by releasing too many models at once. They want everything right now!!! GIMMIE GIMMIE GIMMIE!
Many other product lines do this and release things in 'waves' where they eventually produce the models/figures/whatever when they can as the market supports it. The only thing is, they shouldn't have to worry about other companies harming their business by directly competing against them with their own IP. Hasbro should be able to reasonably expect another toy manufacturer won't go an make an optimus prime figure just because hasbro doesn't release one in wave 1 of a merchandise rollout... but yet GW has to make every model/unit/warger/everything wave 1 all at once or expect to have it made elsewhere? This is the weak justification that drives the illegal knock-off market with toys. "if the company made them, I wouldn't be forced to buy knock offs." and the funny thing is, when the company does make the product with their own IP eventually people then claim, "Oh, it is too much the knock-off is cheaper... I am still justified."
If you want to use 3rd-party models, then you are not welcome at GW stores, nor should you be... If you think you can run a business better with different policies, go ahead and start one and run it better. You don't have the right to demand GW run it business in a different way to meet your personal whims, especially when the actions may be self-destructive to please an unreasonable consumer.
Business, business, business! Did we forget that we are talking about plastic soldiers! Really, stop and think for one moment, let's take the business side out of it. These are plastic miniatures! Sure, I am not ignorant to the business side of GW. However, to state that GW does not have to meet our demands, is in my opinion foolish. Once again I remind our great community, without us, there is no GW or our great hobby! People stop buying and hobby is gone! It's that simple. Now of course I wish the very best for our hobby and gamers, but, if you are going to release a Codex, and of course I understand why they are release in waves; make the models for it (it doesn't mean two years after the fact, e.g. " TWC")
40k is strong, but it could be stronger! Our community could be better! Because we deserve it, and we my dear friend have be faithful to GW for a long time. This is why we post our replies with passsion! Because I love this hobby, however, does the hobby love me?
We all have our horror stories of being introduce to the 40k universe, only to be let down by salesmen that do not promote our creativity!
You say business, and I reply with passion! You speak of dollars & sense, and I ask, "What has GW done for us lately? They know how to take our money and run a monopoly. If GW is so confident in their products, then perhaps they should take a page out of other game systems!
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Post by: nkelsch
imalave wrote:
However, to state that GW does not have to meet our demands, is in my opinion foolish.
if the demands are foolish and are not beneficial to the company or are even destructive then they should ignore *YOUR demands.
Once again I remind our great community, without us, there is no GW or our great hobby!
Overestimating the impact an online fandom of extremely dedicated people have and feel the entire company should be beholden to a small minority of customers...
Now of course I wish the very best for our hobby and gamers, but, if you are going to release a Codex, and of course I understand why they are release in waves; make the models for it (it doesn't mean two years after the fact, e.g. "TWC")
Nope. GW shouldn't limit the creativity of the game or the rules available because some people who are unable to model their own conversions expect an unreasonable release of every possible unit. TWC are an expensive plastic kit that may not even be in every SW army and the sales would be limited, maybe not even enough to justify the creation of the plastic modls to create it. You saw the horrible crying over Juggernauts.
Because we deserve it, and we my dear friend have be faithful to GW for a long time.
selfish entitlement. GW owes you nothing except the product that comes in the box you purchase. You are not issued stock with every purchase.
This is why we post our replies with passsion! Because I love this hobby, however, does the hobby love me?
this is absurdity if you feel like this.
They know how to take our money and run a monopoly.
Saying it is a monopoly doesn't make it so.
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Post by: imalave
nkelsch wrote:imalave wrote:
However, to state that GW does not have to meet our demands, is in my opinion foolish.
if the demands are foolish and are not beneficial to the company or are even destructive then they should ignore *YOUR demands.
Once again I remind our great community, without us, there is no GW or our great hobby!
Overestimating the impact an online fandom of extremely dedicated people have and feel the entire company should be beholden to a small minority of customers...
Now of course I wish the very best for our hobby and gamers, but, if you are going to release a Codex, and of course I understand why they are release in waves; make the models for it (it doesn't mean two years after the fact, e.g. "TWC")
Nope. GW shouldn't limit the creativity of the game or the rules available because some people who are unable to model their own conversions expect an unreasonable release of every possible unit. TWC are an expensive plastic kit that may not even be in every SW army and the sales would be limited, maybe not even enough to justify the creation of the plastic modls to create it. You saw the horrible crying over Juggernauts.
Because we deserve it, and we my dear friend have be faithful to GW for a long time.
selfish entitlement. GW owes you nothing except the product that comes in the box you purchase. You are not issued stock with every purchase.
This is why we post our replies with passsion! Because I love this hobby, however, does the hobby love me?
this is absurdity if you feel like this.
They know how to take our money and run a monopoly.
Saying it is a monopoly doesn't make it so.
Once again, dollar & sense! No passion, too analytical! GW does owe all of us! Once again without us, there is NO GW! Remember! But I can understand if you work for the company, you would feel this way! GW has the right to do whatever they please, however, when it stops pleasing the consumer, well then my dear brother, they would fall just like the rest!
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Post by: wee-dub
It was said earlier in the post. If you dont rise a big fuss about it then the GW manager walking by should have more on his mind then a few shoulderpads being 3rd party.
My major issue is that GW makes rules for models they dont produce. How long has the beastmen book been out? Where is the jabberslythe? (sp) If this monster of complete mistery is to be fielded I guess I'll just throw a base on the table and say "it's the only GW prorduct that acuretly dpeicts it". See the issue here?
Honestly you are right it's up to the store to decide what they allowed in there. My issue is that most the FLGS' (in my area at least) have been run out of buisness or are no longer carrying GW product/have tables for wargaming because of the effect of GW carbet bombing the area with stores. Those that have resisted it arent very freindly...
40132
Post by: ArbeitsSchu
nkelsch wrote:ArbeitsSchu wrote:True. However, Tamiya are hardly losing bucketloads of cash from their sales because people still buy the kit to start with. It also pushes Tamiya to make better kits, more accurately. If GW really want people to stop using third party bits, they should take a long hard look at the gaping wounds in their product ranges. However, they would be much better served by simply licensing out. People still buy their toys, then spend more money on the extra bits. Everybody still makes money.
Though no doubt Tamiya and others would crap themselves with joy if someone ruled they could trademark Tiger Tanks or whatever. I wouldn't mind reading that article either, but not having a comprehensive collection of FSM, I don't have it.
Last time I checked, Tamiya didn't run a retail store... and the last time I checked, GW wasn't saying you can't convert their models with 3rd party bitz, just don't bring them to GW stores and events.
Also, consumers are selfish and stupid and don't understand the financial expense and business model. GW technically can compete with itself by releasing too many models at once. They want everything right now!!! GIMMIE GIMMIE GIMMIE!
Many other product lines do this and release things in 'waves' where they eventually produce the models/figures/whatever when they can as the market supports it. The only thing is, they shouldn't have to worry about other companies harming their business by directly competing against them with their own IP. Hasbro should be able to reasonably expect another toy manufacturer won't go an make an optimus prime figure just because hasbro doesn't release one in wave 1 of a merchandise rollout... but yet GW has to make every model/unit/warger/everything wave 1 all at once or expect to have it made elsewhere? This is the weak justification that drives the illegal knock-off market with toys. "if the company made them, I wouldn't be forced to buy knock offs." and the funny thing is, when the company does make the product with their own IP eventually people then claim, "Oh, it is too much the knock-off is cheaper... I am still justified."
If you want to use 3rd-party models, then you are not welcome at GW stores, nor should you be... If you think you can run a business better with different policies, go ahead and start one and run it better. You don't have the right to demand GW run it business in a different way to meet your personal whims, especially when the actions may be self-destructive to please an unreasonable consumer.
Last time I checked, Hasbro were not trying to market a competitive wargame and thus if Optimus was a little late, there was no need to build one out of cardboard or a Gobot. As for "harming their business" I think its been well covered that people still pay for the original items then add to them, subsequently causing very little harm at all. If GW were to license parts they could also legitimately stock them. Thus they still make sales.
I don't think anyone in this thread has disagreed that the wholesale replacement of models should be permitted. (At least until GW stock other ranges again.)
15571
Post by: BaronIveagh
Again, I'll relate the tale: I no longer take part in 40k 'events' because of the 'all GW' policy. Once upon a time, a game I pre-paid to enter, which said 75% GW was the rule at that time, I was not permitted to play due to them 'adopting' this when a GW judge was brought in at the last min. This donkey-cave, who shall, forever be synonymous with GW in my mind, when I objected, responded by snapping off the offending mini bits and informing me that they were now acceptable.
Whether any official sanction by GW was ever taken, God only knows. Hopefully, his dental bill was high enough.
12010
Post by: Gen.Von Riech
We all know that GW's models are terribly overpriced, and my guess is that they just don't want people coming in with models that are not only cheaper but look great as well. I myself have several custom models made from other kits that I have used at my local gaming store several times. My point is that yes GW has a right to do as it wishes in its stores but they should be competitive and make better products at reasonable prices rather then force gamers to only use their products, as for myself I'll keep my money and mini's at a store that promotes gaming not just profit. 
722
Post by: Kanluwen
BaronIveagh wrote:Again, I'll relate the tale: I no longer take part in 40k 'events' because of the 'all GW' policy. Once upon a time, a game I pre-paid to enter, which said 75% GW was the rule at that time, I was not permitted to play due to them 'adopting' this when a GW judge was brought in at the last min. This donkey-cave, who shall, forever be synonymous with GW in my mind, when I objected, responded by snapping off the offending mini bits and informing me that they were now acceptable.
So wait...you objected to it and then were surprised that the guy did something jerky?
Whether any official sanction by GW was ever taken, God only knows. Hopefully, his dental bill was high enough.
If you actually assaulted him, no. Likely no action was ever taken because you acted like a petulant child.
15571
Post by: BaronIveagh
Kanluwen wrote:BaronIveagh wrote:Again, I'll relate the tale: I no longer take part in 40k 'events' because of the 'all GW' policy. Once upon a time, a game I pre-paid to enter, which said 75% GW was the rule at that time, I was not permitted to play due to them 'adopting' this when a GW judge was brought in at the last min. This donkey-cave, who shall, forever be synonymous with GW in my mind, when I objected, responded by snapping off the offending mini bits and informing me that they were now acceptable.
So wait...you objected to it and then were surprised that the guy did something jerky?
Whether any official sanction by GW was ever taken, God only knows. Hopefully, his dental bill was high enough.
If you actually assaulted him, no. Likely no action was ever taken because you acted like a petulant child.
He did it to my entire fething IG army. You know how many heads that is alone? How many hours of work?
Sorry, Kan, where I come from, as the police pointed out to the guy, using force to protect personal possessions is permissible by law. However, vandalism is punishable by three days.
34906
Post by: Pacific
Has anyone got any kind of firm, final answer on what the policy actually is though?
If you look at the thread on the other forum the OP linked to, there was a fair amount of contradictory evidence posted after the initial 'no non-GW parts' post was made. They were from various locations around the world, I think without exceptions other managers when quizzed said that they would allow 3rd party conversions on models in their store.
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Post by: Kanluwen
BaronIveagh wrote:Kanluwen wrote:BaronIveagh wrote:Again, I'll relate the tale: I no longer take part in 40k 'events' because of the 'all GW' policy. Once upon a time, a game I pre-paid to enter, which said 75% GW was the rule at that time, I was not permitted to play due to them 'adopting' this when a GW judge was brought in at the last min. This donkey-cave, who shall, forever be synonymous with GW in my mind, when I objected, responded by snapping off the offending mini bits and informing me that they were now acceptable.
So wait...you objected to it and then were surprised that the guy did something jerky?
Whether any official sanction by GW was ever taken, God only knows. Hopefully, his dental bill was high enough.
If you actually assaulted him, no. Likely no action was ever taken because you acted like a petulant child.
He did it to my entire fething IG army. You know how many heads that is alone? How many hours of work?
I'm more impressed that he did it off the entire army
Sorry, Kan, where I come from, as the police pointed out to the guy, using force to protect personal possessions is permissible by law. However, vandalism is punishable by three days.
And where anyone reasonable comes from, they'd say you behaved like a child and provoked the action.
There's no way it was just heads if it was over 25% of the model. There's just no feasible way. There's got to be something you're not telling us.
Was the entire army painted? Were they planning on photographing the armies for White Dwarf?
I just can't see a guy doing that to an entire army just because of some heads.
15571
Post by: BaronIveagh
Kanluwen wrote:
I'm more impressed that he did it off the entire army
He had about ten min while I went and got the FLGS manager.
Kanluwen wrote:
And where anyone reasonable comes from, they'd say you behaved like a child and provoked the action.
There's no way it was just heads if it was over 25% of the model. There's just no feasible way. There's got to be something you're not telling us.
Was the entire army painted? Were they planning on photographing the armies for White Dwarf?
I just can't see a guy doing that to an entire army just because of some heads.
Where do reasonable people come from Kan? I've seen 'reasonable people' turn on one another like savage dogs when the chips are down. My idea of 'child like' behavior is not having any guts to stand up for yourself. As far as 'provoking' if you mean 'what do you mean 'no'?' and going and getting the manager to who had taken my hard earned dollars some time in the past for this event and had already approved this army, then, yes, I provoked him.
I challenged the tiny bit of authority he thought he had, and therefor totally justified whatever actions he took next. /sarcasm
And, you didn't pay attention again. They were 'non- GW IP' at all, not that I had exceeded the 25%. You like to get smug about how right you are without bothering to read key points. It's really irritating.
Yes, the entire army was painted. I don't do unpainted minis. As far as my painting skills go, I refer you to my gallery here on Dakka or over at CMON. I don't have any greens up, but I have done them in the past. One of which was decapitated at said event.
As far as I know, no photography was involved. It was a FLGS tourney they brought in some yahoo from GW for, the prize being a Warhound Titan. it was the *last* time such an event was held, and our FLGS no longer carries Warhammer 40k.
He wa asked to leave, and then the police were called. He had also done some damage to other people's armies for similar 'reasons'.
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Post by: nkelsch
BaronIveagh wrote:
He wa asked to leave, and then the police were called. He had also done some damage to other people's armies for similar 'reasons'.
Assault is still assault... and vandalism doesn't make it not assault or 'justified' assault. If the guy wanted to press charges he could have and if he wanted to sue you civilly he could have... he may not have gotten far but he still could have. And defending your property doesn't give you license to go on the offense. I seriously doubt when you returned that you needed to do little more than stand between him and your models to get him to stop removing parts. And if he was 'done' there was nothing left to defend so any physical action you took was retaliatory and criminal and no longer in defense of your property. You could have called the police and taken civil action but instead you supposedly broke his teeth...
...If this story actually happened. Personally, I declare official shenanigans on all wargamers who supposedly resort to physical violence over wargaming or claim they would when they don't get their way. It doesn't actually happen at the frequently people on these boards claim and never to the extent like how people claim to 'have broken his hand' and 'caused him a dental bill'.
I am sure you have pictures of this entire army with pieces broken off right? Since you would have wanted it for your insurance claim and for the police report and to protect yourself from a civil suit so you could show the extend of the damages you were trying to prevent. I know you have this because no one would claim such an absurd lie without basic evidence which is so easy to prove even if it was many many many years ago...
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Post by: Kanluwen
BaronIveagh wrote:Kanluwen wrote:
I'm more impressed that he did it off the entire army
He had about ten min while I went and got the FLGS manager.
Kanluwen wrote:
And where anyone reasonable comes from, they'd say you behaved like a child and provoked the action.
There's no way it was just heads if it was over 25% of the model. There's just no feasible way. There's got to be something you're not telling us.
Was the entire army painted? Were they planning on photographing the armies for White Dwarf?
I just can't see a guy doing that to an entire army just because of some heads.
Where do reasonable people come from Kan? I've seen 'reasonable people' turn on one another like savage dogs when the chips are down. My idea of 'child like' behavior is not having any guts to stand up for yourself. As far as 'provoking' if you mean 'what do you mean 'no'?' and going and getting the manager to who had taken my hard earned dollars some time in the past for this event and had already approved this army, then, yes, I provoked him.
I challenged the tiny bit of authority he thought he had, and therefore totally justified whatever actions he took next. /sarcasm
And, you didn't pay attention again. They were 'non- GW IP' at all, not that I had exceeded the 25%. You like to get smug about how right you are without bothering to read key points. It's really irritating.
There was nothing about "I'm right" in there. You're reading more into my comment than I put into it. If really all that happened was "What do you mean 'no'?" and then he broke your stuff--then he got what he deserved. But I'm taking the same stance I always do whenever we get these internet stories in that something feels off.
Yes, the entire army was painted. I don't do unpainted minis. As far as my painting skills go, I refer you to my gallery here on Dakka or over at CMON. I don't have any greens up, but I have done them in the past. One of which was decapitated at said event.
As far as I know, no photography was involved. It was a FLGS tourney they brought in some yahoo from GW for, the prize being a Warhound Titan. it was the *last* time such an event was held, and our FLGS no longer carries Warhammer 40k.
He was asked to leave, and then the police were called. He had also done some damage to other people's armies for similar 'reasons'.
If that's truly the case, then that sucks and the guy was a twit. But simply put: something feels off.
40132
Post by: ArbeitsSchu
Unsanctioned bits or not, he had exactly zero right to engage in property damage. Given how much time and effort I put into my figures (it measures in the decades), I would probably try to yank his head off. I'm a full grown adult. I might just manage it. Bear in mind that we all expect the odd accident from mishandling, and an accidentally removed part is just evidence we need to pin things better most of the time. But deliberate and calculated damage on a whole army over something as minor as this? No.
But this story does give some indication of exactly how such a policy can make an enjoyable pastime into a ridiculous pain in the ass. Consider if this had been done to some new kid who quite innocently assumed that all figures are just figures? That kid comes home from his game in tears with a pile of parts, he's not likely to go back. That's one less customer, one less spender, one very embarrassed company. What is likely to happen is a VERY angry parent will show up, and can only really go downhill after that.
15571
Post by: BaronIveagh
nkelsch wrote:BaronIveagh wrote:
He wa asked to leave, and then the police were called. He had also done some damage to other people's armies for similar 'reasons'.
Assault is still assault... and vandalism doesn't make it not assault or 'justified' assault. If the guy wanted to press charges he could have and if he wanted to sue you civilly he could have... he may not have gotten far but he still could have. And defending your property doesn't give you license to go on the offense. I seriously doubt when you returned that you needed to do little more than stand between him and your models to get him to stop removing parts. And if he was 'done' there was nothing left to defend so any physical action you took was retaliatory and criminal and no longer in defense of your property. You could have called the police and taken civil action but instead you supposedly broke his teeth...
...If this story actually happened. Personally, I declare official shenanigans on all wargamers who supposedly resort to physical violence over wargaming or claim they would when they don't get their way. It doesn't actually happen at the frequently people on these boards claim and never to the extent like how people claim to 'have broken his hand' and 'caused him a dental bill'.
I am sure you have pictures of this entire army with pieces broken off right? Since you would have wanted it for your insurance claim and for the police report and to protect yourself from a civil suit so you could show the extend of the damages you were trying to prevent. I know you have this because no one would claim such an absurd lie without basic evidence which is so easy to prove even if it was many many many years ago...
What insurance claim? I'll tell you a funny story: I tried to get a mini insured once. Guess how much it's worth? MRSP.
As far as the rest of it goes? I'd love to have seen him try. This is, by the way, NOT the United States. Something a lot of you seem confused by due to the little flag, which is due, I found out, to my ISP sending the packets to Buffalo, NY. Here you have no miranda rights, and the police can beat your ass if they don't like you, and it's legal. US police are only allowed in by invitation from the local police. I didn't take any pictures. I seem to remember the Marshels did for their report, but as to where my copy is, I might be able to dig around and see if I could find it.
7942
Post by: nkelsch
ArbeitsSchu wrote:Unsanctioned bits or not, he had exactly zero right to engage in property damage. Given how much time and effort I put into my figures (it measures in the decades), I would probably try to yank his head off. I'm a full grown adult. I might just manage it. Bear in mind that we all expect the odd accident from mishandling, and an accidentally removed part is just evidence we need to pin things better most of the time. But deliberate and calculated damage on a whole army over something as minor as this? No.
But this story does give some indication of exactly how such a policy can make an enjoyable pastime into a ridiculous pain in the ass. Consider if this had been done to some new kid who quite innocently assumed that all figures are just figures? That kid comes home from his game in tears with a pile of parts, he's not likely to go back. That's one less customer, one less spender, one very embarrassed company. What is likely to happen is a VERY angry parent will show up, and can only really go downhill after that.
But it doesn't justify the assault... Or the bombastic claims of people on the interweb to claim 'I would have beaten him up!'
If a FLGS was running a GW event with GW prize support, it is very reasonable that GW expects the event to promote and push GW models. The idea of a GW event is fine, the idea of having an expensive prize support for players who have GW models is fine, Having people disqualified who are not showing up with a GW army in good faith is also fine. So the idea that some 'policy' is at fault is not the case... In this story it is the fact ( LOL fact) that someone broke models intentionally... not that the event required 75% and the models being broken didn't fit the standard.
Actually this story proves why the 100% standard is correct... The first thing done was try to rationalize why his models with 3rd party parts should still be legal when trying to win a large GW provided prize... Arguing percentage means you have entitled people who can't follow rules and don't realize the whole point of the event is to sell GW models and only GW models. 100% requirement gives total discretion to the organizer to say 'sorry, your models don't fit, get out!' I think if you want a shot at a multi-hundred dollar forgeworld model, showing up with GW only models is a small price to pay and a reasonable expectation. It may have been handled better by the organizer but the premise of the event wa not flawed.
You don't have to agree with them, but you never have the right to resort to physical assault especially to the point of causing deliberate dental damage.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
BaronIveagh wrote:
What insurance claim? I'll tell you a funny story: I tried to get a mini insured once. Guess how much it's worth? MRSP.
I just add them to my personal property insurance on my home insurance... I have a rider for collectibles which works fine and covers my minis in result of damage or theft... Of course I probably wouldn't file a claim for something small, but if I had my whole army stolen or my house burned down, it is nice to know I can get them replaced... MSRP is pretty damn good if you are having hundreds or thousands of dollars of broken/stolen minis. Sure you have to repaint, but that may be preferable to reassembling and fixing paintjobs.
As far as the rest of it goes? I'd love to have seen him try. This is, by the way, NOT the United States. Something a lot of you seem confused by due to the little flag, which is due, I found out, to my ISP sending the packets to Buffalo, NY. Here you have no miranda rights, and the police can beat your ass if they don't like you, and it's legal. US police are only allowed in by invitation from the local police. I didn't take any pictures. I seem to remember the Marshels did for their report, but as to where my copy is, I might be able to dig around and see if I could find it.
Just because you live 'somewhere' outside the US where it is supposedly legal doesn't make it right. Still makes you a tool for causing physical harm to another person over wargaming minis... even in your story where you are getting no justice and no financial compensation you still are not justified in attacking the man.
15571
Post by: BaronIveagh
nkelsch wrote:
But it doesn't justify the assault... Or the bombastic claims of people on the interweb to claim 'I would have beaten him up!'
If a FLGS was running a GW event with GW prize support, it is very reasonable that GW expects the event to promote and push GW models. The idea of a GW event is fine, the idea of having an expensive prize support for players who have GW models is fine, Having people disqualified who are not showing up with a GW army in good faith is also fine. So the idea that some 'policy' is at fault is not the case... In this story it is the fact (LOL fact) that someone broke models intentionally... not that the event required 75% and the models being broken didn't fit the standard.
Actually this story proves why the 100% standard is correct... The first thing done was try to rationalize why his models with 3rd party parts should still be legal when trying to win a large GW provided prize... Arguing percentage means you have entitled people who can't follow rules and don't realize the whole point of the event is to sell GW models and only GW models. 100% requirement gives total discretion to the organizer to say 'sorry, your models don't fit, get out!' I think if you want a shot at a multi-hundred dollar forgeworld model, showing up with GW only models is a small price to pay and a reasonable expectation. It may have been handled better by the organizer but the premise of the event wa not flawed.
You don't have to agree with them, but you never have the right to resort to physical assault especially to the point of causing deliberate dental damage.
GW did not provide the prize. The FLGS did. I was never really clear why this guy had been brought in. The organizer was the FLGS.
My 'rationalization' was, at the time I paid money into the pot that was used to buy the prize, the rule was 75%. Which my minis exceeded, and had already been approved in advance by the organizer. The organzier agreed with this assesment, and when we returned to inform the individual of this, we got the aforementioned scene.
Homeowners doesn't do that here, however, flood and fire will cover it.
'A tool' I like that! That's funny. I see good, reasonable, people slaughtering each other every day on the news over ideology, religion, and money. And yet, for standing up for myself, I'm a tool. Yeeesh, sheeple.
7942
Post by: nkelsch
BaronIveagh wrote:GW did not provide the prize. The FLGS did. I was never really clear why this guy had been brought in. The organizer was the FLGS.
My 'rationalization' was, at the time I paid money into the pot that was used to buy the prize, the rule was 75%. Which my minis exceeded, and had already been approved in advance by the organizer.
Does your paying into the also 'rationalize' attacking someone too? You let the FLGS running the event handle 'the vandalism of customers property' instead of resorting to a more vicious criminal act in reaction to a criminal act... Makes you a terrible human being.
If this guy was a GW employee, the way real companies work is the FLGS would have given you guys 'something' for the harm done to the customers in their store. The Store owner than would have reported it to GW and threaten to take civil action against GW as the person was acting on behalf of the company. They could sue for way more than the damage done due to the customer relation damage. GW would then fire the employee and settle with the FLGS.
That is what actually happens in the real world when criminal activities happen to the extent you claim.
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Post by: Kanluwen
That is, again, a puzzling thing.
How many people were playing and what was the entry fee?
Was it anywhere near enough to justify a Warhound Titan as a prize?
Why would they have a GW overseer?
37325
Post by: Adam LongWalker
I have seen this on several occasions in my regions when a GW Employee goes to a indie store because they were requested by the indie store to help run a tournament.
This generally happens when the Indie store is new to the 40k/WHFB games.
35350
Post by: BuFFo
BaronIveagh wrote:He wa asked to leave, and then the police were called. He had also done some damage to other people's armies for similar 'reasons'.
Don't pay attention to the hippies who congregate on 40k sites. According to the majority of them, if your sister is getting raped, and you punch the guy raping your sister, you are wrong for doing so because you provoked him, or didn't read a bible first to the guy, or something like that.
I stopped going to GW stores back in 2002 when I was told I was not allowed to bring my Tyranid Armorcast models into the store since they were no longer GW models. Really? When I paid for them years earlier, they sure as hell were...
I have since not entered a GW store once, and I ALWAYS veer new hobyists away from GW stores/online store, and either to a LFGS or eBay. I am glad to have removed thousands and thousands of dollars over the years from GW because of their insult to me. I will continue to do so happily. As long as I get treated like a customer, and not a hobbyists, I will treat GW in kind.
7942
Post by: nkelsch
BuFFo wrote:
Don't pay attention to the hippies who congregate on 40k sites. According to the majority of them, if your sister is getting raped, and you punch the guy raping your sister, you are wrong for doing so because you provoked him, or didn't read a bible first to the guy, or something like that.
.
Did you really try to trivialize the horrific act of rape by comparing it to fighting over broken toys?
And bring religion into it too!
35350
Post by: BuFFo
nkelsch wrote:BuFFo wrote:
Don't pay attention to the hippies who congregate on 40k sites. According to the majority of them, if your sister is getting raped, and you punch the guy raping your sister, you are wrong for doing so because you provoked him, or didn't read a bible first to the guy, or something like that.
.
Did you really try to trivialize the horrific act of rape by comparing it to fighting over broken toys?
And bring religion into it too!
At least I stayed on topic!
15571
Post by: BaronIveagh
nkelsch wrote:BaronIveagh wrote:GW did not provide the prize. The FLGS did. I was never really clear why this guy had been brought in. The organizer was the FLGS.
My 'rationalization' was, at the time I paid money into the pot that was used to buy the prize, the rule was 75%. Which my minis exceeded, and had already been approved in advance by the organizer.
Does your paying into the also 'rationalize' attacking someone too? You let the FLGS running the event handle 'the vandalism of customers property' instead of resorting to a more vicious criminal act in reaction to a criminal act... Makes you a terrible human being.
If this guy was a GW employee, the way real companies work is the FLGS would have given you guys 'something' for the harm done to the customers in their store. The Store owner than would have reported it to GW and threaten to take civil action against GW as the person was acting on behalf of the company. They could sue for way more than the damage done due to the customer relation damage. GW would then fire the employee and settle with the FLGS.
That is what actually happens in the real world when criminal activities happen to the extent you claim.
First and foremost. GW gives less then a gak about what goes on here, because they can't be sued here (since here they are not liable for their employee's actions, as under the law, the only person liable for your actions is you). As far as getting something, the FLGS gave the people involved a mini of their choice, on the house. No idea what went on beyond that.
I've seen more then one wargamer respond very badly to 'deliberate mini damage'.
Kanluwen wrote:That is, again, a puzzling thing.
How many people were playing and what was the entry fee?
Was it anywhere near enough to justify a Warhound Titan as a prize?
Why would they have a GW overseer?
I forget. Fee was $45 each.
Not sure. I seem to recall that they (the FLGS) were, at the time, trying to get into the global campaign that year, thinking to get a bigger draw, so it might have had to do with that.
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Post by: Kanluwen
Hrmh. When was this?
There was a big management hubbub after the 13th Black Crusade dealing with FLGS support.
15571
Post by: BaronIveagh
Kanluwen wrote:Hrmh. When was this?
There was a big management hubbub after the 13th Black Crusade dealing with FLGS support.
it was more recent then that. Spring 2007 IIRC, because I remember getting a new position right after that with the casino.
Might have been 06 though, because I remember that we were talking about Medusa V.
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Post by: Kanluwen
Am at a loss then. The guy might just have been a jerk.
15571
Post by: BaronIveagh
That's my theory. I still hold that he got what he deserved.
@Adam: btw, I just realized what your icon was. that's pretty cool, do they actually sell those?
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Post by: Kanluwen
He could have gotten more if you hadn't punched him over toy soldiers.
15571
Post by: BaronIveagh
Kanluwen wrote:He could have gotten more if you hadn't punched him over toy soldiers.
Not really. You can't claim financial compensation here, beyond the purchase price of the items, and odds are he'd have skipped out, since I doubt hsi bank account was in this jurisdiction that it could be seized.
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Post by: Kanluwen
You're focusing too much on "financial compensation".
You could have gotten him fired and blackballed. As it is, you essentially martyred him as "that guy who got punched by a gamer for enforcing a rule".
15571
Post by: BaronIveagh
'And then got deported by the police.'
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Post by: Kanluwen
'And then got sent to Mexico, despite his insistence that he was British'.
Fitting enough punishment?
15571
Post by: BaronIveagh
LOL No, we deported him to the United States. Some might say it was too harsh.
299
Post by: Kilkrazy
This topic seems to have been fully explored.
We'll bring you a re-run in a couple of weeks.
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