Everytime I try to throw together a power blob, I get really carried away and they end up costing 800 pts. Yet I see that most people's powerblobs are 300-400 points. What do your power blobs have in them?

Well for orks its as many power weapons in a unit as you can and for gaurd its 20-40 guys with a commisar all the seargeants have power weapons and joined by priests

Well, i'm talking about specificly IG powerblobs. Any hope for a points value, or something a little more specific? Thanks for the quick answer though.

For guard, how i run it, Is two 10 man squads, giving the sargents power weapons, and two flamers. adding in a commissar with a powerweapon as well. All in all that should run around 175. Though i think 3-4 squads in the blob is more the normal, raising the cost along with that.

The most successful, as far as I can tell, is the 30 man blob with 3 Power weapon sergeants, 3 Autocannons or Lascannons, a Commissar with a Power weapon and a single Vox caster.

Still too much bloat Darkvoid. A real Powerblob is this:

PIS, Power Weapon, Commissar w/ Power Weapon
PIS, Power Weapon
PIS, Power Weapon
225

You don't need Vox Casters since the unit is Ld9. The unit will always be moving, so don't bother with Heavy Weapons. It is too difficult to bring Meltaguns to bear with such a large squad, so leave those to your SWS, CCS and PCS. Just get this unit close, blast away with a million lasguns and then take a charge like a champ.

20 is too few to survive more than a single round of close combat. 40 will leave you with models that aren't close enough to attack in close combat. 30 is the magic number, and don't let anyone tell you different.

Yeah, thanks all, whenever I try to put some together I end up piling in max gaurd squads with conscripts and heavy weapons and stuff, and then I notice that just one squad is a third of my army.

DarkHound wrote:Still too much bloat Darkvoid. A real Powerblob is this:

PIS, Power Weapon, Commissar w/ Power Weapon
PIS, Power Weapon
PIS, Power Weapon
225

You don't need Vox Casters since the unit is Ld9. The unit will always be moving, so don't bother with Heavy Weapons. It is too difficult to bring Meltaguns to bear with such a large squad, so leave those to your SWS, CCS and PCS. Just get this unit close, blast away with a million lasguns and then take a charge like a champ.

20 is too few to survive more than a single round of close combat. 40 will leave you with models that aren't close enough to attack in close combat. 30 is the magic number, and don't let anyone tell you different.

This. But be sure to take more than 1 blob, that's when blob lists get deadly.

When you have more than one blob, you get the special rule where you get to laugh at his face when you lose 20 models in one blow and dont care.

yeah 30-40 mangs, with p.weap's and a commissar. If special weapons are if you have the points spare. If you're running a gunline, then look into AC's for the blob/s, for the first turn volley, but they generally dont get used after that.

My blobs are as follows.

PIS: Flamer, Meltabombs, PW, Commissar w/ Power Weapon
PIS: Flamer, Meltabombs, PW
PIS: Flamer, Meltabombs, PW
Priest w/ Eviscerator

310 pts all together, and I take two (which still really isn't enough to be honest...)

I run my power blobs 30 men strong, but I run them in a hybrid list along with mechanized infantry and heavy armour. For this reason, I kit my power blob to be a little more independent so that the rest of the army can roll forward and do what armour is supposed to do. To do this, I give all the Sergeants power swords AND melta bombs, should the enemy get around my armour somehow. This allows the blob to take on any walkers or other vehicles that get close to them. For the special weapons, I give them meltas to deal with vehicles that get too close. The juicy contents inside should succumb to the massed lasfire or the power swords.

Cheaper blobs work if you're doing a list that relies entirely on your infantry, but if they're part of a hybrid force you need to give them the tools they need to deal with anything that comes their way. Particularly if they're sitting on objectives far behind your other units.

I find that taking Straken and keeping him around eliminates the need for a Priest. Plus, Straken is awesomesauce.

True, but a Priest also gives you a handy dandy can opener, which is always useful to have when you've got a lot of tanks coming your way.

I used to run priests, but for 60pts (with eviscerator), it just became too expensive. To echo the thoughts, 30 man blobs are where I've found greatest success. I know that some people here swear by 20 man blobs, but I find them too fragile. I run...

PIS: Meltagun, Meltabombs, PW, Commissar w/PW
PIS: Meltagun, Meltabombs, PW
PIS: Meltagun, PW

For 265pts. Does the trick, flamers are decent too, though I normally run 4 flamers in one of the PCS nestled inside a blob. Add Straken increased awesomeness.

Hmm, I've always kept my CCS back with my heavy weapons teams, so I find Priests a must have for my army. The extra punch they get on the charge kind of make it worth the 60 points for me.

ChrisWWII wrote:Hmm, I've always kept my CCS back with my heavy weapons teams, so I find Priests a must have for my army. The extra punch they get on the charge kind of make it worth the 60 points for me.

The only problem I had and still have with priests, is that without them, I can take another blob, or nearly anyways. If I had 60pts to spare (or even 45), sure, I'd throw in a priest, assuming I don't already have Marbo. That, and there are a number of armies that can more easily dictate who gets the charge and when, which can quickly reduce a priests effectiveness. They're a decent choice, but I find that regular blobs with Straken or even on their own are very solid.

But you have to get the priest into base to base contact for him to do anything. And against any vehicles that want to get into CC with you, the Priest we get bitchslapped for he gets to attack. Just use Meltaguns for anti-tank, or better yet, use something *good* at killing tanks. Like Vendettas.

EDIT: The extra "punch" added by Priests? So more Strength 3 attacks? Big woop. A blob works by outlasting the opponent, not charging in and kicking ass.

odorofdeath wrote:Just use Meltaguns for anti-tank, or better yet, use something *good* at killing tanks. Like Vendettas.

This. I subscribe to this train of thought after I cracked open a land raider in assault cause I didn't have any other available antitank nearby...the resulting explosion got a bunch of dudes, then the pissed off marines insides boltered and flamed before assaulting me...not pleasant...

thirty seems to be the best. i have them outifited with three melta guns, sgts with power weapons and a commissar with a power weapon.

I just want to add that in lists with 1 or more powerblobs, a Lord Commissar with a camo cloak becomes a viable choice. This is because the squad gets so big that the enemy almost has to shoot at it at one point, and the LC gives the entire squad +1 to cover.

GLs as opposed to flamers are also not a bad choice, because a 30 man squad will not have the mobility, and seldom have the opportunity, to make good use of the flamers.

Redscare wrote:I just want to add that in lists with 1 or more powerblobs, a Lord Commissar with a camo cloak becomes a viable choice. This is because the squad gets so big that the enemy almost has to shoot at it at one point, and the LC gives the entire squad +1 to cover.

Wait, what? Since when did one dude wearing a bed roll make thirty dudes harder to hit?

SInce the FAQ came out, and said one model with stealth gives the whole unit stealth. You're supposed to assume that he's giving them instructions on where to hide.

ChrisWWII wrote:SInce the FAQ came out, and said one model with stealth gives the whole unit stealth. You're supposed to assume that he's giving them instructions on where to hide.

What the gak? That's stupid.

That's what I say, but it's the rules now. An IC with Stealth gives Stealth to whatever unit he joins, be that a squad of Ogryns, or a 50 man Guard blob.

Edit:

It looks like your kitteh is going DO NOT WANT to Caramelldance Marine.

ChrisWWII wrote:That's what I say, but it's the rules now. An IC with Stealth gives Stealth to whatever unit he joins, be that a squad of Ogryns, or a 50 man Guard blob.

Edit:

It looks like your kitteh is going DO NOT WANT to Caramelldance Marine.

Noice, you edited whilst I simultaneously pressed quote.

God damn you Games Workshop, God damn you.


On an unrelated note, it is momentarily amusing to watch both avatars together.

Maybe it'll distract us from the idiocity of IC giving stealth to 30 man powerblobs.

ChrisWWII wrote:Maybe it'll distract us from the idiocity of IC giving stealth to 30 man powerblobs.

Just wait 'til you hear about GK Hammerhand shenanigans..

i usually run my blobs as
pis: melta+pw+commisar w/pw
pis: melta+pw

relatively cheap and can get the job done (or die horribly)

Devastator wrote:relatively cheap and can get the job done (and die horribly)

Welcome to the Imperial Guard.

Darkvoidof40k wrote:
Just wait 'til you hear about GK Hammerhand shenanigans..

I already hear enough horror stories about the Knights. We've got a Knights player here whose been doing quite well overall. I haven't had a cahnce to play him yet, I may bring Powerblobs with an Executioner...that should hurt the Knights me thinks. Besides, I'm Guard. S4, S5 it makes no difference to me, my Guardsmen die all the same.

ChrisWWII wrote:

Darkvoidof40k wrote:
Just wait 'til you hear about GK Hammerhand shenanigans..

I already hear enough horror stories about the Knights. We've got a Knights player here whose been doing quite well overall. I haven't had a cahnce to play him yet, I may bring Powerblobs with an Executioner...that should hurt the Knights me thing. Besides, I'm Guard. S4, S5 it makes no difference to me, my Guardsmen die all the same.

An extract from a certain thread concerning the Hammerhand debate, written by yours truly :

Darkvoidof40k wrote:I can not wait to get my hands on some Grey Knight models, moreso now. Thank you, OP!

Pfft, as if my Purifiers weren't good enough in combat already..


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Wait, so as it stands, a Librarian with Mastery Level 3 + Draigo + Paladins could cast Hammerhand 6 times.. for a total of +6 Strength in close-combat. S10 W2 Insta-killing Power-weapon Terminators with potential for I6 and FnP? YES PLEASE!

...I...I... !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Just wait how bad the BT will be after their ward-treatment.

Gif combo-breaker, anyone?

ChrisWWII wrote:...I...I... !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Yep, your tanks care now!

Indeed they do. Indeed they do. Welp, time to call in the Imperial Navy. Orbital bombardment solves everything!

ChrisWWII wrote:Indeed they do. Indeed they do. Welp, time to call in the Imperial Navy. Orbital bombardment solves everything!

The GK codex can call in more Orbital Bombardments than you have Basilisks.

Edited for better wording:

I can't really think of anything that hasn't already been said... has anyone said this?:

don't rely on your blob squad to win the fight, chances are a big ol' template will land on them, make sure you have some scoring units in reserve so you can still win fights.

PCS have poor BS, you may as well give them flamers and a chimera so they still have a chance at winning you some points.

Power fist are good if you can spare the points, well at least some people say they are.

Jack of all trades IG don't usually work, so always concentrate your points into one way of combat.




Just because people took my last comment as a troll post because i worded it poorly (my fault), doesn't mean everything i say is stupid. please don't pass me off as "that guy who knows Gak"...

That's not a powerblob. That's mech vets. I'd put money on my powerblob being able to take down that unit fairly easily.

And maybe I should give up trying to one up the Grey Knights...it's clearly not working.

ChrisWWII wrote:That's not a powerblob. That's mech vets. I'd put money on my powerblob being able to take down that unit fairly easily.

And maybe I should give up trying to one up the Grey Knights...it's clearly not working.

Darkvoidof40k wrote:

ChrisWWII wrote:Indeed they do. Indeed they do. Welp, time to call in the Imperial Navy. Orbital bombardment solves everything!

The GK codex can call in more Orbital Bombardments than you have Basilisks.

"Sigh"
Time to break out the IA armored battle group.

@Monk1junk1 Troll harder.

Devastator wrote:

Darkvoidof40k wrote:

ChrisWWII wrote:Indeed they do. Indeed they do. Welp, time to call in the Imperial Navy. Orbital bombardment solves everything!

The GK codex can call in more Orbital Bombardments than you have Basilisks.

"Sigh"
Time to break out the IA armored battle group.

Time to break out the Exterminatus.. but considering they don't have rules for that, I'll just settle for eight-hundred Grey Knights instead.

Maybe I could use the Death Korps of Krieg Reaver Titan Maniple. That should work.

ChrisWWII wrote:Maybe I could use the Death Korps of Krieg Reaver Titan Maniple. That should work.

Hmm.. interesting.. I'll just take the equivelant points worth of Dreadknights, spread them out 12" apart, charge, guns blazing, and lets see where we get, eh?

Ha! 3 Vortex missiles should take care of that!

ChrisWWII wrote:Ha! 3 Vortex missiles should take care of that!

Even on a 4' by 4' board where I have first turn and all my Dreadknight's can do a 30" shunt before firing/assaulting?

Well, not on a 4 by 4 board...but maybe on a 6 by 4! 3 10" vortex templates should put the hurt on SOMETHING!

ChrisWWII wrote:Well, not on a 4 by 4 board...but maybe on a 6 by 4! 3 10" vortex templates should put the hurt on SOMETHING!

I could just bring some GKGM's to Outflank my Dreadknight's . Or hell I could just DS an equivelant points-worth of Terminators all with Daemonhammers.

Maybe the explosions will kill them.....=Prays to Emperor=

ChrisWWII wrote:Maybe the explosions will kill them.....=Prays to Emperor=

I 'spose I could just requisition Marbo via Inquisitorial.. ah.. "persuasion".. *points Virus Bombs at Catachan*

I'm going to throw my weight behind the 21-man power blob contingent. I'm sure most people here knew that would happen, though. If you really want, we can get into why 21 is good enough, but there's a good amount of "it depends on your meta," so people are going to disagree no matter what.

I run Hybrid IG, with 7 tanks and three blobs in two platoons. This gives me five scoring units, three of them reasonably resilient. The PIS serve as either "hide in the corner and score" or "suicide melta alpha-strike" via Vendettas.



My blobs are bare-bones, with a Commissar and three power weapons at 165 pts. My philosophy on building lists is that you decide the absolute minimum needed upgrades for you to run each unit in your army. Then you build your army with your minimums. With extra points left at the end, then you can add the extra stuff. I do this because IG is an amazingly efficient codex, until you add all the crappy upgrades and everything gets bloated. Special weapons, heavy weapons, vox casters; they all detract from the blob's role: assault. I can see a case for adding Meltas, but not until I've built the rest of my list. As you can see in my list, there are no extra points for those things without removing an entire unit.

I'm almost always going to advocate that there's no place for special or heavy weapons in power blobs, because those roles can be filled much better by other units at our disposal. I have seen (and made) lists where it works out, but a vast majority of the time Powe Weapons and Commissars are all you need in blobs.

so lets recap, shall we?

-30 is optimal for number for blob squad(s)
-always add power weapons
-more blobs the better
-1 commisar per blob
-best way to survive artillery barrage is to wear bed roll
-only way to kill gks is to nuke them from orbit

did i miss anything?

Where the hell is Ailaros, he should be all over this thread.

Devastator wrote:so lets recap, shall we?

-30 is optimal for number for blob squad(s)
-always add power weapons
-more blobs the better
-1 commisar per blob
-best way to survive artillery barrage is to wear bed roll
-only way to kill gks is to nuke them from orbit

did i miss anything?

Nope, that's about it.

Jaon wrote:Where the hell is Ailaros, he should be all over this thread.

I don't have a clue, but knowing him, yeah.

My blobs are as follows:

Commissar w/PW, Sgt w/PW and Meltabomb
Sgt w/PW

That's 175 points, and I take 6 of them in three platoons. If I'm feeling really frisky, I drop the Chimeras for the command squads and add another platoons worth. Nothing like the frantic scrambling of 180 guardsmen running for cover.

Since when did frisky become a word usuable to describe military deployment?!

Devastator wrote:-30 is optimal for number for blob squad(s)

I'd actually disagree with this. 30 is a good number for a blob. Taking them in 20's is also good (because you can take more of them). 20's also give you more flexibility, not only on the field, but with other things like when you decide it's best to break a blob.

Devastator wrote:-always add power weapons
-more blobs the better

Right.

Devastator wrote:-1 commisar per blob

Mostly, yes. There are times when more than 1 commissar is a good idea, for example, when playing against people who have vindicares, mind war, and the like. Also, adding in an extra commissar is technically the cheapest way to add more power weapons to your blobs.

Devastator wrote:-best way to survive artillery barrage is to wear bed roll

This is SO not true. The best way to survive artillery is proper spacing. Huddling into cover will produce worse casualties than arranging your troops properly outside of cover.

Devastator wrote:did i miss anything?

Yeah, I'm going to go with another vein that people have said. Namely, I think that power blobs really should have SOME way of handling tougher targets. Whether this comes in the form of melta bombs, melta guns, or priests, being able to avoid getting tarpitted by a dreadnought, or being able to ping a wound or two on a demon prince outside of just what the bayonets, frag grenades, and lasguns can do is a very helpful thing, especially since the price of the power blob is a fixed cost, so you're just paying for the upgrades.

you know, i just shortened the treads opinions to list
that bed sheet thing was joke

Darkvoidof40k wrote:Since when did frisky become a word usuable to describe military deployment?!

Meaning "It really depends on how much I want to field 180 models that day."

One point I want to put out in favour of 21-man blobs is that if you feel you need a bigger blob (because of the mission objectives or the army), you can just combine the two of them into a 42-man. With 31's, you're probably taking a platoon for each of them, and don't have the option to decide "it's mega-blob time."

Edit: That is, unless you play DKoK, who can take six PIS per platoon, for some reason.

I'd be tempted to do Power Blob DKoK....but the monetary costs alone make my brain hurt.

This isn't actual advice as much as thinking outl oud but the GL feels like the best overall choice for a Power Blob.
+ Its cheap
+ It can do something to most transports out there
+ As a blast, it matchs up perfectly with the basic Lasgun for anti-infantry firepower
+ It has the longest range of any special weapon if you're moving, which most PB are doing (right?)
- Its not as reliable at busting tanks or putting wounds on targets as a Melta or Plasma

Overall, I think its the best option.

ElCheezus wrote:One point I want to put out in favour of 21-man blobs is that if you feel you need a bigger blob (because of the mission objectives or the army), you can just combine the two of them into a 42-man. With 31's, you're probably taking a platoon for each of them, and don't have the option to decide "it's mega-blob time."

Edit: That is, unless you play DKoK, who can take six PIS per platoon, for some reason.

I really can't think of a more expensive way to blob than DKoK. At $60 a squad, you're talking $197 per blob ($17 for the commissars). Assuming you take three of them... that's $800 for your troops. Holy crap.

That said, the DKoK commissars are the sickest looking models out there. Hot diggity damn.

Bah, just proxy it for a few games or something. I'm sure having a S10 AP 1 no-center-of-blast melta pieplate popping up and removing terrain for 50 points would get old after a couple games. . . maybe. . . Same with the hidden power fists, double attacks, FNP and no need for Commissars. ::yawn::

ElCheezus wrote:Bah, just proxy it for a few games or something. I'm sure having a S10 AP 1 no-center-of-blast melta pieplate popping up and removing terrain for 50 points would get old after a couple games. . . maybe. . . Same with the hidden power fists, double attacks, FNP and no need for Commissars. ::yawn::

Or buy the Wargames Factory Shock troopers for an eighth of the price. >_>

if i ever take any heavy weapons squads, i always hide them in my infantry. heavy weapons squads alone are very likely to run away because of thier poor leadership. I would normaly use autocannons but it's up to you what you want to take, anything works.

Making a purposefully inflammatory comment, which you did, is trolling.

If you yourself had said things in a constructive manner (as you've requested of us), things might be different.

Although, to be honest, even politely saying "blobs are a bad investment of points compared to vets" in a thread about the best way to build blobs could still be considered pretty inflammatory. You're quite pointedly trying to stir up a hornet's nest, and that's "troll'n" at it's core.

I think the 30 man power blob is the minimum you want for a power blob 40 is also decent cause your guardsmen your gonna take casualties so what all of you can't fight, you probably swing slower and lost some men before you swing so those extra 10 are more buffer wounds.

Back when I did run power blobs I ran them like this
Platoon Command 3-4 melta guns sometimes in Chimera
1 infantry squad melta gun, las cannon/auto cannon, sarge w power weapon, commisar with power weapon, vox
2-3 infantry squad melta gun, las cannon/auto cannon, sarge w power weapon

You want melta guns to put in front of the blob so you have something to do if someone tries to tank shock you. You also splice in the platoon command and their 4 meltas in the front. Las cannons or auto cannons are included since I use the blob to sit on my objective since blobs outside of cover are pretty bad. ordering bring it down on ld 9 is pretty good.

I never put in voxes cause I wanted my company command and platoon commands to have the max amount of meltas if possible although there wasn't always points.

ElCheezus wrote:Making a purposefully inflammatory comment, which you did, is trolling.

If you yourself had said things in a constructive manner (as you've requested of us), things might be different.

Although, to be honest, even politely saying "blobs are a bad investment of points compared to vets" in a thread about the best way to build blobs could still be considered pretty inflammatory. You're quite pointedly trying to stir up a hornet's nest, and that's "troll'n" at it's core.

hmm, i see.. thankyou, i have edited my first post so it is more constructive. It sucks how people can take you out of context on the internet because if you don't word your post correctly them even the most kind hearted things can sound either sarcastic or rude...

Thanks for all the replies everyone! So It's sounding like you want a 30 man squad, with one commissar with power weapon per squad, and perhaps a ministorum priest. Sound about right?

loota boy wrote:Thanks for all the replies everyone! So It's sounding like you want a 30 man squad, with one commissar with power weapon per squad, and perhaps a ministorum priest. Sound about right?

There's debate about the virtues of 20 man squad versus a 30 man squad, as well as debate about the efficiency of the Priest. However, the basic idea is right.

With several armies having an ability to pick out a model, a second commisar in a power blob may be a good investment so you don't lose stubborn the first time an eldar player mind wars you.

doubled wrote:With several armies having an ability to pick out a model, a second commisar in a power blob may be a good investment so you don't lose stubborn the first time an eldar player mind wars you.

Maybe something like 1 Commissar for every 20 Guardsmen?

Maybe have aa Lord COmmissar running around to back up any squad that's lost its Commissar?

ElCheezus wrote:One point I want to put out in favour of 21-man blobs is that if you feel you need a bigger blob (because of the mission objectives or the army), you can just combine the two of them into a 42-man.

Right, or you also have the option of keeping them as 21's and then just running them near each other. Proper fieldcraft can basically turn 2 20's into 1 40. It's part of the flexibility benefit of the 20's.

ElCheezus wrote:... you can just combine the two of them into a 42-man. With 31's, you're probably taking a platoon for each of them, and don't have the option to decide "it's mega-blob time."

O Muse...

haha, you know what would be fun? max out your infantry slots with platoons that are all maxed out of options.... what an amazing sight...

Monk1junk1 wrote:haha, you know what would be fun? max out your infantry slots with platoons that are all maxed out of options.... what an amazing sight...

2000 standard Guardsmen. 206 Commissars. 6 PCS's. I dread to think how many Chimera's.

In total it all adds up to only 12 Kill Points, not including Chimera's.

Ailaros, I do believe that picture is getting saved into my 40k folder.

In my 2500 point list( i hope to have eventually...) I have a guardsmen platoon of 40 men, each squad with a power weapon, one commissar with a power weapon. Imagine Making Al'rahem the leader of said platoon...

I would say run 2 commisar in any platoon over 20, the extra power weapon attacks are nice as well.

Lonecoon wrote:

ElCheezus wrote:Bah, just proxy it for a few games or something. I'm sure having a S10 AP 1 no-center-of-blast melta pieplate popping up and removing terrain for 50 points would get old after a couple games. . . maybe. . . Same with the hidden power fists, double attacks, FNP and no need for Commissars. ::yawn::

Or buy the Wargames Factory Shock troopers for an eighth of the price. >_>

Problem is only that the W.F Shock Troopers are only 1/8th as cool as DKoK :(

I use my powerblobs with an extra 10 man meatshield unit in front.

I= meatshield
B= blob

I I I I I I I
B B B B B
B B B B B

Blob/inf unit are armed with grenadelaunchers or flamers. Meatshield unit gives cover to the unit behind and when the enemy assult the meatshield unit they mostly crush them in cc and will be left open for another turn of shooting. All heavy weapons are in HW teams because i want my "mobile" units to move. Hardly fool proof but works rather good in my gaming club.

Interesting tactic, with a sacrificial unit in front of your blob.

If I run into a list I know my blobs can't handle, maybe I'll combine my squads differently to provide a spare unit.

For example, the last time I was assaulted by Raveners, it did not end well. Same usually happens with Genestealers, if it's a large brood. Also, Thunderwolf Cavalry did not end up going well. In that case, though, shooting with plasma or something is a much better idea. But you get the idea. something to keep in mind.

Best special weapons with this tactic is either flamers or grenadelaunchers. Because you give your opponent 4+ cover there is a waste of points when you pay for AP2. Almost all enemy units already have 4+/3+ AS so it matters little for us.

It has helped me alot esp against tough CC units like genestealers where another turn of FRFSRF! really makes a difference. Relocating into cover is also very useful esp against Tyranids who lack offencive grenades on most of their units. Orks are another really good race to use this against, stand in open -> let them assult -> meatshield unit dies -> FRFSRF! into them when they are in open ground -> much more handable unit

Going the pro-line you will have either or both a PC with 4 flamers/grenadelaunchers and a 5-7 models stong unit of Rough Riders who flame first then countercharge.


I personally feel im the superior general when my opponent players suddenly fears S/T3 guardsmen in CC

Let more people see the shiny light of guardsmen with bayonets instead of just spamming meltavets and vendettas

How important are grenades to the squad, either the entire unit with Kraks or the single Melta? I feels like a cheap bit of insurance for walker tarpitting or popping the occasional vehicle but is it worth it?

I'd rather take the melta bombs, for this reason. The biggest threat to my powerblobs is AV12 walkers. TH/SS Terminators? I may not win, but I've got them tarpitted, and that's good enough for me. However AV12 walkers can tarpit ME, and that's the last thing I want. As others have said, blobs should have other thing to kill tanks with other than a grenade down the tail pipe, and your S4 frag grenades can glance the rear armor on most any vehicle anyway.

However, against an AV12 walker, the frag grenades won't do anything. Krak grenades are only S6, and aren't going to have a good chance to damage them anyway. Melta bombs give your squad it's best defense in close combat with a walker, since they actually have the possibility to damage it quickly. That's why I'd take melta bombs over krak grenades anyday.

They're not a necessity, but after the PW and Commissars, the melta bombs, or a Priest are the first upgrade I buy.

I don't ever really see the point behind buying grenades, myself. You can already do damage to a vehicle with Frag grenades. Good damage? No. But it's possible. When you buy Krak Grenades all you do is upgrade your squad's last role, as you're not likely to use blobs to take out vehicles. So you're only getting slightly better at your worst thing.

Against walkers, you need a 6 to hit with a grenade. You then need a 6 again to do anything. Even with 21 or 31 attacks, you're going to be tarpitted anyway.

With meltabombs, the story is slightly different. You're much more likely to do damage to a vehicle with two or three melta bombs in the group. However, it's still your blob's lowest priortiy. Against walkers you fare better, but instead of having 21 or 31 attacks, you've got 2 or 3: it'll still take forever to get out of the assault.

Basically, assaulting vehicles is pretty much the last thing you really want to do with your blob, unless you're using it to get extra movement. And you're going to be tarpitted by walkers no matter what you do, so even if you have grenades or MBs, you'll try to avoid them like the plague. Paying for something you really don't want to end up using always seemed like a bad idea to me.

Spend the points on better support units instead. It may seem like it, but blobs can't do *everything*

p.s. Priests make an exception to the "never assault vehicles" bit. They work pretty well, though they still don't help much with walkers.

I run 6 infantry squads as blobs, and it seems to me that the 30 points spent on melta bomb semi-insurance is a good purchase overall. Yeah, you want to avid walkers as much as possible, but your opponent is going to be trying to get his walkers in combat with you, and you can't always garuntee that you'll out manuver them. Blobs are big targets.

I'd rather have the assurance that I can have a chance of hurting the walker...if it was much more expensive, than of course I'd take the support units. But or 30 points? The insurance is worth it to me.

ChrisWWII wrote:I run 6 infantry squads as blobs, and it seems to me that the 30 points spent on melta bomb semi-insurance is a good purchase overall. Yeah, you want to avid walkers as much as possible, but your opponent is going to be trying to get his walkers in combat with you, and you can't always garuntee that you'll out manuver them. Blobs are big targets.

I'd rather have the assurance that I can have a chance of hurting the walker...if it was much more expensive, than of course I'd take the support units. But or 30 points? The insurance is worth it to me.

Especially if there happens to be a nearby Land Raider within "6..

To put it another way, I've never had the points. Even if I had 50 more points, I've got quite a few weapons I'd buy before MB or Krak on blobs. I'm sure they're a nice luxury, but I build squads based on minimum functionality to avoid bloat from upgrades, so I never get to add things like that until the list is done.

So the virtues of 30 man and 20 man blobs have been pointed out, but why not 40 man blobs? The idea is to outlast the enemy either way, so even though not everyone will get piled in it would still seem the extra bodies would help.

Currently my list has 2 platoons with 4 squads each. Would that be better run as 4 20 man blobs? 2 per platoon? Or one platoon with a blob of 30 and another blob of 20 with the second platoon having a blob of 30?

Also, when referring to the camo cloak giving the entire unit stealth, that only counts with the Lord Commissar right? Because it doesn't list commissars as having the ability to buy wargear. All it mentions is that "The Platoon Commander and/or Commissar may exchange his pistol and/or close-combat weapon for:"

Legatto wrote:So the virtues of 30 man and 20 man blobs have been pointed out, but why not 40 man blobs? The idea is to outlast the enemy either way, so even though not everyone will get piled in it would still seem the extra bodies would help.

Legatto wrote:So the virtues of 30 man and 20 man blobs have been pointed out, but why not 40 man blobs? The idea is to outlast the enemy either way, so even though not everyone will get piled in it would still seem the extra bodies would help.

If you do get tied up by a walker or T7+ unit you will flip the table and burn down the building... But i guess that's what Priests with Eviscerators are for

To be fair this has been kinda picked up on with it being one of the advanatages of 20man PIS; if you need a bigger blob it it's an option

Peace Out!
Jonny!

ElCheezus wrote:To put it another way, I've never had the points. Even if I had 50 more points, I've got quite a few weapons I'd buy before MB or Krak on blobs. I'm sure they're a nice luxury, but I build squads based on minimum functionality to avoid bloat from upgrades, so I never get to add things like that until the list is done.

'

Fair enough.

Legatto wrote:So the virtues of 30 man and 20 man blobs have been pointed out, but why not 40 man blobs? The idea is to outlast the enemy either way, so even though not everyone will get piled in it would still seem the extra bodies would help.

The problem is, once you get to 40 man blobs they're just too hard to manuver and position properly and with 40 men, in one squad you're sacrificing a lot of flexibility. I'd rather take two tweny man blobs that I can combine into a 40 man blob if need be, just in the name of added flexibility.

Legatto wrote:So the virtues of 30 man and 20 man blobs have been pointed out, but why not 40 man blobs?

Because 20's and 30's are good enough to handle anything that power blobs can handle by themselves by themselves. If it's good enough to beat a 30-man blob, it will probably beat a 40-man blob. If it's not, then the extra dudes in the blob are wasted. Put it another way, they're not points-efficient (which is a problem that 30's also have, but much less so).

Plus, any time you'd want a 40-man blob, you can achieve basically the same effect by just placing 2 20-man blobs next to each other. See this game for example.

And yes, it is possible to tar pit power blobs, which sucks, given that that's what they're supposed to be doing to the bad guys. In a foot horde, that lascannon+missile launcher dread that your opponent has isn't going to do much... unless they decide to start a tea party with your 225+ point power blob in the middle of the board...

Legatto wrote:So the virtues of 30 man and 20 man blobs have been pointed out, but why not 40 man blobs? The idea is to outlast the enemy either way, so even though not everyone will get piled in it would still seem the extra bodies would help.

Currently my list has 2 platoons with 4 squads each. Would that be better run as 4 20 man blobs? 2 per platoon? Or one platoon with a blob of 30 and another blob of 20 with the second platoon having a blob of 30?

Also, when referring to the camo cloak giving the entire unit stealth, that only counts with the Lord Commissar right? Because it doesn't list commissars as having the ability to buy wargear. All it mentions is that "The Platoon Commander and/or Commissar may exchange his pistol and/or close-combat weapon for:"

The 40 man blob is too unwieldy. You're using four rows of ten, five rows of eight, or 2 rows of twenty. With 1" spacing, that's 360 square inches or two and a half square feet. Your average gaming table is 24 square feet. Do you really want one squad taking up a tenth of the table? Plus moving them takes forever.

So then 20 - 20 - 20 - 20 or 30 - 20 - 30?

And can any one answer the commissar question?

Legatto wrote:So then 20 - 20 - 20 - 20 or 30 - 20 - 30?

And can any one answer the commissar question?

There is no question about it, every good blob needs a Commissar with a power weapon.

I'd go with 21 x4.

The commissar question about Camo Cloaks? That's only the Lord Commissar that can buy one.

ElCheezus wrote:I'd go with 21 x4.

The commissar question about Camo Cloaks? That's only the Lord Commissar that can buy one.

Yeah the 21 x 4 seems to be where I am leaning. Thanks for answering the Commissar thing, it seemed a bit too good to be true.

Legatto wrote:

ElCheezus wrote:I'd go with 21 x4.

The commissar question about Camo Cloaks? That's only the Lord Commissar that can buy one.

Yeah the 21 x 4 seems to be where I am leaning. Thanks for answering the Commissar thing, it seemed a bit too good to be true.

Again, though I definitely lean toward 21-man blobs, if your opponents routinely wipe them out, you might look at 31s again.

Having just played a game against Grey Knights, I find that the Draigo Paladin squad was just too much for a 21 man blob to handle. I'd have been much more comfortable with either a 31, or even 41 man blob.

Right, 21's are vaguely better, but you do have to be on guard - there are things that can take 21-man power blobs.

When you take more smaller ones, you can do a lot more with fieldcraft, but you also need to rely more on fieldcraft to be successful.

When I'm running IG, I'm always on GUARD!!!! hahahahahahahahahahahahah..... just me?

ChrisWWII wrote:Having just played a game against Grey Knights, I find that the Draigo Paladin squad was just too much for a 21 man blob to handle. I'd have been much more comfortable with either a 31, or even 41 man blob.

Dear god, I hope they ate a 21-man blob. The 5-man squads I've used are 345 points, not counting Draigo. If a 21 blob took them down, they'd be even worse than most people say.

That said, an equivalent-points blob (41) would probably munch through them in time. If my opponent put down 2-wound terminators, I know I'd probably want to combine my two 21s into a 42.

ChrisWWII wrote:Having just played a game against Grey Knights, I find that the Draigo Paladin squad was just too much for a 21 man blob to handle. I'd have been much more comfortable with either a 31, or even 41 man blob.

That doesn't mean you should simply add more meat to the grinder- use your men more wisely! Sometimes, blob squads are as much a disadvantage as they are an advantage.

For example, if you did not have a blob squad during that game and simply pitted two 10 man infantry squads against the paladin squad, you might have forced him to go through one unit at a time. After he wipes out a unit, Draigo's unit is done for the turn. Take this opportunity to open fire with everything, and throw another 10 man infantry squad in his face. You will have a lot easier time shooting them down than whittling them down with S3 attacks, powered or not.

You don't have to be a ruthless infantry commander when using footslogging IG. Guardsmen have families too.

ElCheezus wrote:
Dear god, I hope they ate a 21-man blob. The 5-man squads I've used are 345 points, not counting Draigo. If a 21 blob took them down, they'd be even worse than most people say.

That said, an equivalent-points blob (41) would probably munch through them in time. If my opponent put down 2-wound terminators, I know I'd probably want to combine my two 21s into a 42.

What surprised me was how quickly they ate the 21 man blob, even with me on the charge. I dind't expect to destroy him with the 20 blob, but I did expect to tie him up for a turn or two while I sent more blobs in against him.

Redscare wrote:

That doesn't mean you should simply add more meat to the grinder- use your men more wisely! Sometimes, blob squads are as much a disadvantage as they are an advantage.

For example, if you did not have a blob squad during that game and simply pitted two 10 man infantry squads against the paladin squad, you might have forced him to go through one unit at a time. After he wipes out a unit, Draigo's unit is done for the turn. Take this opportunity to open fire with everything, and throw another 10 man infantry squad in his face. You will have a lot easier time shooting them down than whittling them down with S3 attacks, powered or not.

You don't have to be a ruthless infantry commander when using footslogging IG. Guardsmen have families too.

1) Screw their families. Not like they're ever gonna see them again anyway.
2) He had strike squads and dreadnoughts besides his strike squad. This was a 1500 point game, and I had other priorities than draigo. Besides, most of my firepower was 3 vanilla Lemans, (Demolishers and an Executioner would have been much better, along with the powerblobs, I think they might have eaten Draigo alive), and their AP3 would have been useless, though it was effective against his Strike Squads.

Besides, the way powerblobs work it's better to be assaulting than not. If I'm not assaulting with a 21 man blob I can get 56 lasgun shots with 12" and FRFSRF, none of which ignore armor, and maybe if I'm lucky I'll cause one or two wounds. (Someone else can do the mathhammer) If I charge, I get 12 power weapon attacks, and 36 regular attacks. I'd take that over the lasgun shots any day thank you very much.

Besides, they ate through 21 man powerblobs in 2 assault phases, a 10 man squad would have just let him consolidate closer to me with each squad I threw at him.

ChrisWWII wrote: (Someone else can do the mathhammer)

Your most likely result with 56 Las shots against T4, 2+ is 1 wound.

And with charging....

12 attacks, 6 hits, 2 wounds, 5++ invul saves leave me with about the same.

I still hold it's better to attack though, even though the wounds caused are the same, I feel that it's better to take the charge from the Knights, and try to tarpit them then to shoot and get charged in turn.

Your most likely result for the power weapons is 1 wound, and your most likely result for the regular attacks is also 1 wound. So charging kills 1 more than shooting. Plus, you don't have to both get shot and give your opponent an extra attack from their charge. Don't forget that bolters and storm bolters are probably a blob's worst enemy.

Assaulting someone is usually more defensive than offensive for blobs, really. Except against other hordes. Against Orks or Genestealers (more than 8 or so), you want to shoot more unless you're certain of victory.

ChrisWWII wrote:I still hold it's better to attack though, even though the wounds caused are the same, I feel that it's better to take the charge from the Knights, and try to tarpit them then to shoot and get charged in turn.

Its often better to get the charge in rather then rapid fire if only to take the charge away from your opponent. The added little bit of movement could also be helpful if you are trying to eventually move somewhere else after combat (and assuming you win).

I would say you're better off with rapid fire against WS7+ units though, considering you'll only be hitting on 5's instead of 4's or if you are packing Plasmaguns in your blob squad for some reason.

ChrisWWII wrote:What surprised me was how quickly they ate the 21 man blob, even with me on the charge.

They tend not to be that common, but there are a few things that are an utter hard counter to blobs. For example, for roughly the price of a 31-man power blob with 3x meltaguns, you can get 6 MoK LC terminators. The termies charge the power blob and kill 18 on their turn, and then finish off the blob on the guard player's turn. Put another way, they destroy power blobs without even breaking stride (if anything, they go FASTER).

Thankfully, most of these options are pretty rare sights on the field.

Is it ever really worth it to go crazy and field 50 Guardsmen with 5 Commissars?
Looks like a minimum of 525 points with just a Power Weapon but with such a big unit you'd have to be using either Meltaguns or Meltabombs to stop from being tarpitted by a walker.

minigun762 wrote:Is it ever really worth it to go crazy and field 50 Guardsmen with 5 Commissars?
Looks like a minimum of 525 points with just a Power Weapon but with such a big unit you'd have to be using either Meltaguns or Meltabombs to stop from being tarpitted by a walker.

Apoc? But yeah, I consider walkers a high priority when I'm just running 20-man blobs. They'd be crazy-dangerous if you had a 50-man. More meltaboms and/or Krak Grenades to give you a chance of taking it down, I guess, but still.

Ailaros wrote:Right, 21's are vaguely better, but you do have to be on guard - there are things that can take 21-man power blobs.

When you take more smaller ones, you can do a lot more with fieldcraft, but you also need to rely more on fieldcraft to be successful.

Example being the 10 Witches with Hydra Blades I ran into the other night. The 21 was too small to even have a decent chance to strike back and only just large enough not to die the turn they were charged. A 31 would have been able to cause some damage and stop the DE from avoiding my retaliation. So 21s against most armies and 31s at a minimum against fast assault armies strikes me as the right balance.

The next question is wether or not you bother with any sort of heavy weapon at all for power blobs. But I'd imagine that's been covered elsewhere.

Did you run two 21's in the same platoon? I do two of my three blobs that way so I can make a 42 when presented with a unit that would eat a 21 too quickly. 10 Witches would still cause a lot of damage, but would probably fall to that many guardsmen. Part of the benefit of running multiple 21s is the flexibility to combine if necessary.

Heavy weapons are a resounding "no" from me. Heavy weapons are cheaper and more efficient on vehicles, which is part of why I prefer Hybrid. Even if you go for Heavy Weapons on infantry, they shouldn't go in blobs. In general, you blob up and add a commissar for CC survivability, which doesn't pay off if you sit still with heavy weapons.

I had two blobs from the same Platoon. It was the first time I had, both, faced new DE and used the 21s. What hurt the most was that the dang Witches are what ended up costing me the game. Not only did they kill my 21, they knocked out my Bane Wolf and left my Executioner immobilized with only sponson weapons. I must have poured 70+ shots into them over two turns just to break them. And that included a Heavy Bolter HWS using "Fire on my target!". And with all that fire concentrated on the Witches my ability to kill his reserving Raiders was dramatically reduced.

Next time I'l know better and field the full 43 (2x Commissars + 4x squads w/2x GL, 2x MG, 2x Vox, 4x Bolt Pistols & 6x Power Swords and a Ministorum Preacher) against DE regardless of mission.

Priests are too expensive. If you want more S3 attacks, the cost of a first buys you another unit with a power weapon. Plus, almost everything moves faster than you, so most often you will be getting assaulted rather than charging in yourself.

Meltabombs are popular to give you a chance against walkers, but I prefer to spend those points on meltaguns or nothing at all and just being careful what I let engage me.


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Ailaros wrote:

ChrisWWII wrote:What surprised me was how quickly they ate the 21 man blob, even with me on the charge.

They tend not to be that common, but there are a few things that are an utter hard counter to blobs. For example, for roughly the price of a 31-man power blob with 3x meltaguns, you can get 6 MoK LC terminators. The termies charge the power blob and kill 18 on their turn, and then finish off the blob on the guard player's turn. Put another way, they destroy power blobs without even breaking stride (if anything, they go FASTER).

Thankfully, most of these options are pretty rare sights on the field.

Does this math consider that on average two of those terminators will drop to their return attacks

withershadow wrote:Priests are too expensive. If you want more S3 attacks, the cost of a first buys you another unit with a power weapon. Plus, almost everything moves faster than you, so most often you will be getting assaulted rather than charging in yourself.

If I used a Priest with Eviscerator I'd agree that they are overpriced. But on the whole mine is there more for the ability to act as an extra body with good stats and an invulnerable save. Sure a Commissar with Power Sword is the same points, but should the Blob actually get the Charge...

Good stats? They have T3 and 1 wound. If anything, you should keep them far away from the actual melee, out of btb contact as long as possible.

Anyway, 21-man blobs are more than adequate for the majority of stuff you'll face today, since everyone and their mother likes to field MSU in razorbacks. If facing something more substantial, 31 is more apropos. If you field two 21s, you can always combine them for a large squad of 42 which can be extremely difficult for even dedicated close combat specialists to deal with. 18 power weapon attacks hidden behind 36 ablative wounds is brutal.

As for the vox question, I like them. People say you don't need them because they are Ld9 with the commissar, but I disagree. Ld9 is far from infallible, and when you want that BiD for your meltas or to get them back in the fight after going to ground, you'll be grateful for that reroll.

Oh, and no tournament organizer worth his salt will let you stack multiple instances of hammerhand on a single unit. You can only benefit from the same buff once, otherwise a character with stealth joining a unit with stealth would gain +2 to their cover saves, or Creed and Straken could stack two instances of Furious Charge on stuff, or DC within range of Sanguinary priests would get two FNP rolls and double furious charge, etc. Please, that's just stupid.


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elite_dannux wrote:

Lonecoon wrote:

ElCheezus wrote:Bah, just proxy it for a few games or something. I'm sure having a S10 AP 1 no-center-of-blast melta pieplate popping up and removing terrain for 50 points would get old after a couple games. . . maybe. . . Same with the hidden power fists, double attacks, FNP and no need for Commissars. ::yawn::

Or buy the Wargames Factory Shock troopers for an eighth of the price. >_>

Problem is only that the W.F Shock Troopers are only 1/8th as cool as DKoK :(

The W.F. Shock Troopers are 1/8th as cool as Cadians, much less DKoK. Those W.F. models are hideous.

And the DKoK list is just wrong. I actually own enough of them to field two maxed out platoons and I could never bring myself to use that monstrous list (not to mention that I've never seen powerfists that would look good on the DKoK, and replacing all those lasguns with CCW+pistol would drive me insane).

withershadow wrote:Good stats? They have T3 and 1 wound. If anything, you should keep them far away from the actual melee, out of btb contact as long as possible.

True enough. But they do have 2 weapons and 2 base attacks. And since mine will always be with Straken or at least within 12" that's 4x S4 I4 attacks that re-roll any misses. Like I said, if he's there and the squad gets to charge he's worth every point. And if I get charged he'll get right up and in there to try and absorb any power weapons or fists. Win, win.