Reflex wrote:Tau... anime should hold no ground in the 41st millennium
Than Space Marines should go as well. Anime was, in the words of John Blanche himself, an explicit reference for (re-)desigining the entire Marine range.
John Blanche wrote:
This recent overhaul of the Terminator design brings it into line with progress made in appearance of the Space Marines in general. The suit is now bigger and takes on the “Anime” proportions bestowed on the rest of the range – longer legs, wider shoulders and a bigger chest. The larger bases and plastic component nature of the hard copies allows for more versatile poses especially in the legs giving the suits more dynamism. The hip shields are inherited from the new Grey Knight designs. Characters in Mark 3c suits are available but no traitor versions have yet appeared.
As for the most hated army, my choice would be Imperial Guard:
40K is a game of sci-fantasy madness. Threadheads should just stick to Flames of War.
This poll should really be in 2 sections. Some people are going from a game play point of view, and some fluff. separate polls would give better insight.
This poll should really be in 2 sections. Some people are going from a game play point of view, and some fluff. separate polls would give better insight.
QFT
I'd say, given the amount of anger presented by a lot of people, it would have to be Space Marines of some fashion, as everyone seems (perhaps rightly) to be sick of them. I just tried starting a simple discussion on which Marine Chapter people would hypothetically like to see get its own Dex over at Beasts of War and got more or less berated for even asking the question - as if I controlled GW's release schedule & Codex writing
I don't know how anyone can take this so seriously. It depresses me...
This poll should really be in 2 sections. Some people are going from a game play point of view, and some fluff. separate polls would give better insight.
QFT
I'd say, given the amount of anger presented by a lot of people, it would have to be Space Marines of some fashion, as everyone seems (perhaps rightly) to be sick of them. I just tried starting a simple discussion on which Marine Chapter people would hypothetically like to see get its own Dex over at Beasts of War and got more or less berated for even asking the question - as if I controlled GW's release schedule & Codex writing
I don't know how anyone can take this so seriously. It depresses me...
cough*Iron Hands*cough
In the big picture of things Ive seen the release of the tau and daemons codex... the tau are such a tiny and insegnifigant race in the big story of 40k (They arent really a threat to anyone... and annoyance at worse to the imperium) That without the threat of real races (tyranids, chaos, Necrons, DA ORKZ!) they would have been wiped off the map by the imperium a long time ago. I mean really if its not in the tau little bubble of space then they really can't take part in it can they? Sooooo why are they even a playble army? Even the eldar and DE have there crazy tricks to get about the galaxy and influece huge events in the main story line (eldrad caused Gazkull to start his empire shattering Waaagggghhhh people)
And really why did chaos daemons need there own codex? just make one huge awsome chaos codex that matches the SM one with options to make the traitor legions with special characters (typhus=death guard troops, Lucius=noise marine troops, Erebus=daemon troops, Traitor General= traitor guard as troops please please please )
Reflex wrote:Tau... anime should hold no ground in the 41st millennium
never understood this, how do Tau look like anime characters exactly?
is it because they have mechs?
the mechs dont resemble any I've ever seen in any anime, but maybe thats just me
Anyways my personal choice goes to Eldar, their soldiers look absolutely ridiculous
I know what a treadhead is, but what's a threadhead?
Commander Endova wrote:I went with Chaos Deamons/Chaos Space Marines. I don;t think that they should get rid of those books, just sort of combine them.
I hope they never combine them again. I would never play a whinyboy marines army (IE, all chaos space marines, the only faction whose fluff I honestly dislike), but I WOULD potentially play a chaos daemons army.
For my part, if I HAD to get rid of stuff? I'd combine the marine factions into one book with options to customize (an assault based army with elite scouts and etc to represent wolves and templar, a mobility based bikes/jump troops army to represent blood angels and white scars, shooty based army to represent dark angels and etc) its FoC.
Reflex wrote:Tau... anime should hold no ground in the 41st millennium
never understood this, how do Tau look like anime characters exactly?
is it because they have mechs?
the mechs dont resemble any I've ever seen in any anime, but maybe thats just me
Anyways my personal choice goes to Eldar, their soldiers look absolutely ridiculous
I love em all, sure i have my gripes with certian gaming and fluff aspects, but each race contributes to the hobby that makes the game whole and complete....except Grey Knights... .
Blood Angels, mainly because everyone and their poodle repainted their marine army to Blood Angels to abuse..um i mean use their new codex
Not so much hate, more irritation. I wound up against a relictors army at an event that was the ONLY non-bangle or 'im using the blood angels codex to run my (fill in blank here) marine army there. There were thirty-odd participants, and four were xenos, so that should give you an idea how many clones of Mephiston were riding around in Chibihawks that day
Actually Rogueyopants you are wrong, i've got in my hand a copy of C: DA and it clearly says and i quote 'Ezekiel, Grand Master of Librarians' and i believe you spelt it as, and i once again quote 'Ezikal'
On something else, why cant we just love all the races for what they are, they have been made this way and you love the hobby. If you hate them so much go make your own hobby. And enough with hating Grey Knights and Space Wolves, stop acting like TROLLS!
Grey Knights, they're completely unneccessary. I thought Space Marines were supposed to be super soldiers, but no, we have to have SUPER super soldiers.
It's like a bunch of developers sat around smoking dope, trying to make the "coolest army ever." They thought they were being badass naming the GK the
"666th Chapter." Then they gave them all the "OFMGZ STOARM BOHLTARS AND FOURCE WEAPONS." But that wasn't enough. They had to add "PSYCHIHC WEAPOUNRY" and make them "UNCORUPTABLE BECUZ THEY'RE THE CHOZEN UNES MEHDE FRUHM THE EMPRAS' JEAN SEEEHD."
It's sickening.
When I first started 40k I knew that I would always hate nidz... They look so...
Little boy:"oooh... Cool aliens, must have..."
Other boy:"that is sooo true they are some awesome aliens!"
Blahblahblah...
And second would be DE they look just.... Strange?
Reflex wrote:Tau... anime should hold no ground in the 41st millennium
never understood this, how do Tau look like anime characters exactly?
is it because they have mechs?
the mechs dont resemble any I've ever seen in any anime, but maybe thats just me
You hear this argument a lot. My guess is because the walkers of other factions look like heavy machinery - clunky, bulky pieces of equipment - while the Tau suits (and the Eldar Wraithlord/Guard for that matter) have a look more like your Gundam/Power Rangers/etc type robot-suits, but with the sleek, rounded designs you see on a lot of modern-day Japanese robotics.
Just my $0.02. I voted Tau because I think they add the least to the storyline.
Cybronx wrote:Grey Knights, they're completely unneccessary. I thought Space Marines were supposed to be super soldiers, but no, we have to have SUPER super soldiers.
It's like a bunch of developers sat around smoking dope, trying to make the "coolest army ever." They thought they were being badass naming the GK the
"666th Chapter." Then they gave them all the "OFMGZ STOARM BOHLTARS AND FOURCE WEAPONS." But that wasn't enough. They had to add "PSYCHIHC WEAPOUNRY" and make them "UNCORUPTABLE BECUZ THEY'RE THE CHOZEN UNES MEHDE FRUHM THE EMPRAS' JEAN SEEEHD."
It's sickening.
I honestly don't mind this. Hell, I encourage it. It's going back to the original almost-self-parody roots of 40k.
Cybronx wrote:Grey Knights, they're completely unneccessary. I thought Space Marines were supposed to be super soldiers, but no, we have to have SUPER super soldiers.
It's like a bunch of developers sat around smoking dope, trying to make the "coolest army ever." They thought they were being badass naming the GK the
"666th Chapter." Then they gave them all the "OFMGZ STOARM BOHLTARS AND FOURCE WEAPONS." But that wasn't enough. They had to add "PSYCHIHC WEAPOUNRY" and make them "UNCORUPTABLE BECUZ THEY'RE THE CHOZEN UNES MEHDE FRUHM THE EMPRAS' JEAN SEEEHD."
It's sickening.
I honestly don't mind this. Hell, I encourage it. It's going back to the original almost-self-parody roots of 40k.
But if they did that, the force of every neckbeard-stroking troll's head exploding in unison from the violation of their precious GRIMDARK!(tm) would actually push the Earth out of orbit spiraling into the sun.
I Like them all I do think all the none codex marines should just have their rules printed in WD and on the web, as oppose to lots of codexes but thats not going to earn GW any money.
Voted Tau because I'm in the whole "they don't fit" camp, but runner up is all the deviant marines. One codex for the 3+. GK could be part of an Inquisition book, or the 'I' could get rolled into Imperial Guard with GK going to Space Marines.
I can't stand Grey Knights now, the new Codex is just annoying. Fluff is bad. Models are nice though. I don't see why they don't just get thrown in with another book like the above poster mentioned, they don't have many truly Unique units, all they'd need are PAGK and Termies/Paladins.
Space Wolves are lame too, I don't think of the "Emperors Finest" wearing bears and wolves on their power armor. Not a fan of their dex either, it's not AS bad as Grey Knights IMO though.
Cybronx wrote:Grey Knights, they're completely unneccessary. I thought Space Marines were supposed to be super soldiers, but no, we have to have SUPER super soldiers.
It's like a bunch of developers sat around smoking dope, trying to make the "coolest army ever." They thought they were being badass naming the GK the
"666th Chapter." Then they gave them all the "OFMGZ STOARM BOHLTARS AND FOURCE WEAPONS." But that wasn't enough. They had to add "PSYCHIHC WEAPOUNRY" and make them "UNCORUPTABLE BECUZ THEY'RE THE CHOZEN UNES MEHDE FRUHM THE EMPRAS' JEAN SEEEHD."
It's sickening.
I honestly don't mind this. Hell, I encourage it. It's going back to the original almost-self-parody roots of 40k.
But if they did that, the force of every neckbeard-stroking troll's head exploding in unison from the violation of their precious GRIMDARK!(tm) would actually push the Earth out of orbit spiraling into the sun.
Geez daedalus, for a DCM you sure are bitter. I'm not trolling, at worst I'm being obnoxious (and on purpose at that.) I for one enjoy grimdark, and while I think self-parodying can be excellent in limited amounts, there comes a point at which it stops being amusing and starts becoming immature.
Big surprise . . . BA, SW, and now GK. so basically, everyone hates the newest marine codecies to come out. While I fully support the "Xenos don't get no love" cries from the xenos players, I feel that the new chapter codecies will be on par or outshined by the newer xenos codecies. Right now I feel like DE are the most competetive out there, soon to be replaced by Necrons.
as for the army I hate . . . I would have to say I have no real hate for any of them.
I like how so far the poll is the current 3 PA dexs that got updated I picked Space Wolves because on the face of things, they have a few too many issues and well, they bug me quite badly for an army (I still can't get over Long Fangs).
I picked Daemons, because I intensely dislike them having their own codex. I liked it when they were summoned as part of Chaos Marine armies.
Space Wolves are a close second. Not for the gameplay issues, but just because their fluff gets sillier and sillier. They're space vikings, not space werewolves, damnit!
Reflex wrote:Tau... anime should hold no ground in the 41st millennium
never understood this, how do Tau look like anime characters exactly?
is it because they have mechs?
the mechs dont resemble any I've ever seen in any anime, but maybe thats just me
You hear this argument a lot. My guess is because the walkers of other factions look like heavy machinery - clunky, bulky pieces of equipment - while the Tau suits (and the Eldar Wraithlord/Guard for that matter) have a look more like your Gundam/Power Rangers/etc type robot-suits, but with the sleek, rounded designs you see on a lot of modern-day Japanese robotics.
Battlesuits look "sleek, [and] rounded" to you? Are you familiar with what round means?
somecallmeJack wrote:I picked Daemons, because I intensely dislike them having their own codex. I liked it when they were summoned as part of Chaos Marine armies.
Funny, I intensely disliked having them in CSM codices. I can get behind a daemons army, but the idea of having to play whinyboy marines just to be able to play daemons is extremely obnoxious.
DarknessEternal wrote:Battlesuits look "sleek, [and] rounded" to you? Are you familiar with what round means?
Spoiler:
Round: 1a. Being such that every part of the surface or the circumference is equidistant from the center: a round ball.
b. Moving in or forming a circle.
c. Shaped like a cylinder; cylindrical.
d. Rather rounded in shape: the child's round face.
e. Full in physique; plump: a round figure.
Of course, round isn't the word I used; rounded is.
Rounded:1. curving and somewhat round in shape rather than jagged; "low rounded hills"; "rounded shoulders"
But maybe these piloted armored suits will help illustrate my point better:
Spoiler:
The IoM and CSM walkers are boxy, with harsh edges. The Ork walker looks ramshackled, with harsh edges. Eldar and Tau have generally sleek, rounded technology. This may be more apparent in their vehicles and armor (fire warrior helmets are ostentatiously rounded, as are stealth suits), and admittedly, some of the battlesuits are too boxy to really be referred to as sleek (like XV88 Broadside). But that wasn't your point anyway. Every edge on the XV8 commander is rounded off - heck, his guns don't even have edges! The Wraithlord is similar, except radically less boxy than the others.
Now, it's my opinion that this commonality between Eldar and Tau aesthetics is what makes people say they look Japanese, consciously or otherwise. You don't have to agree with me, but please don't insult my intelligence.
IG and their ugly ass models can take a hike. Runner up is the Grey Knights with their Nemesis Crapknights. Daemonhunters are welcome to make a return though.
Cybronx wrote:Grey Knights, they're completely unneccessary. I thought Space Marines were supposed to be super soldiers, but no, we have to have SUPER super soldiers.
It's like a bunch of developers sat around smoking dope, trying to make the "coolest army ever." They thought they were being badass naming the GK the
"666th Chapter." Then they gave them all the "OFMGZ STOARM BOHLTARS AND FOURCE WEAPONS." But that wasn't enough. They had to add "PSYCHIHC WEAPOUNRY" and make them "UNCORUPTABLE BECUZ THEY'RE THE CHOZEN UNES MEHDE FRUHM THE EMPRAS' JEAN SEEEHD."
It's sickening.
You just mad your ultramarines aren't the ultra anymore ;D
Grey Knights are just OP, and i really don't like the new version of them; whereas the previous versions, fluff, and ideas behind them are great! I like daemonhunters, however, just not Grey Knights.
As an Ork player for which army i hate to face the most it is any of the Marine forces. From a fluff standpoint it has to be a tie for Ultrasmurfs and Space Puppies, the concept of Vikings in space just seems too bizarre to me, and the "we are the best of the best of the best of the best" for the smurfs just irks me.
i dont want the SM Chapters Gone, i just would like every other race to have some of the benifits to diversity. So far the only races to really get into detail with their different subfactions are the SMs, Demons, and CSM. I wouldnt mind an extra codex or two for things such as:
Craftworld Eldar Perks (much akin to Space Wolves compaired to Ultras, Black Temps, Etc.)
Kabal Dark Eldar Perks
Standard Tau Sept (true tau combat doctrine) vs Farsight Enclave (Yay, free knife. Whoop-de-fething-doo)
C'Tan specific Tombs (I'd reckon the Nightbring having different preferences to battle than the Deceiver)
True IG regiment perks, Like Mordian having an army-wide Acute Senses (given where they where founded and trained) or desert Raiders with Hit-and-Run.
And i Almost forgot about Da Ork Klans
Other than the Space Marines, and Demons, the most other armies get is two to six special Characters. . . compared to two to six extra Codexes.
I just picked all Marines. It's not that I 'hate' them, I'm just really tired of always playing against Marines of one color or another. Honestly though, my least favorite would have to be Chaos Marines... I get it, you're spikey and angry and enjoy skulls, now get over it!
All the 'special' types of Space Marines. Either chapters shouldn't get their own codex, or every different faction of every different race should get their own. Grey Knights I consider different enough, though, that they can stay, but most of the rest just have a single different rule, or a special character or two, or different wargear options, which really don't need a whole nother book to go through.
I pick no one, because I feel like in the fluff, they all play some sort of important part in the 40k universe. If you remove one, at first it may seem cool, but then you realize there is a hole missing in that part of the fluff, and it just doesn't feel right.
Tau are a great example of this. they seem insignificant (Indeed, if they were hit by a crushing offensive from any of the other races, they would perish) but their place as "A gasp of life" in the dying universe (even though its debatable if the Tau are any better than the IoM) plays an important part in the story as a whole.
Would I do some changes to the rules for some balance? Yes, some of the "Special" SM chapters could use a tad of balancing, but they aren't broken to the point of removal.And combinations could be made, Like DSM and Daemons could be combined, along with all the SM chapters, but outright remove them from the fluff totally?
No, I'm not going to launch exterminatus on any race.
I voted Tau because you guys look like a bunch of Gundam fanbois and I hate having to get out of my pirate ship just to kill you little Jump-Shoot-Jump fairies >.<
Oh yeah, and you can't hate Orks. You just can't. Wittwe cuddwy, wuvwy balls of greenness.
There is nothing I enjoy more than wiping the floor with Eldar remains, they die so easily.
Sweeping their infantry away is satisfying.
Melting their pathetic tanks is blissful.
Psychic hood-ing their favourite powers.
Survivng everything they throw at you.
War? No. Target practice.
Wise Guy Sam wrote:I say all the different colour marines.
If only because they could easily still exsist in the standard space marine dex with a special character or 2.
Fixed that for you
I don't hate any army. They are plastic toys
Cheers silver, this is pretty much the truth of it. ...
Amen to that.
Who thought it would be a good idea to make a new space marine codex every other update again? The SM codex already costs more, why not put all of those books in the big SM book anyways?
Commander Endova wrote:I went with Chaos Deamons/Chaos Space Marines. I don;t think that they should get rid of those books, just sort of combine them.
Much agreed I have never seen a purely daemon army just, the csm and daemons always fight together
I don't like grey knights. I dislike the idea of another marine codex, with added elite sauce.
We have the elite of the elite, then we have more elite on top of that, just with horrible, shiny unfinished armour and every soldier has magical powers.
They should be part of C:SM as elite choices, not a whole army.
I like all the races, some I prefer, of course, but there's at least something I like about each one.
For example, I can't stand the Blood Angels codex, not crying 'OMG OP!!!1' or anything, just lots of little things annoy me, but their range has some nice looking models in it.
Edit:
NoBaconz4You wrote:They should be part of C:SM as elite choices, not a whole army.
They did that kind of thing in the Dawn Of War games and I always thought it made more sense to me than them being fielded as an entire army.
DrownedRat117 wrote:There is nothing I enjoy more than wiping the floor with Eldar remains, they die so easily.
Sweeping their infantry away is satisfying.
Melting their pathetic tanks is blissful.
Psychic hood-ing their favourite powers.
Survivng everything they throw at you.
War? No. Target practice.
never been up against a competent Eldar player then?
Hard to sweep infantry when they are inside Wave serpents. Melta doesn't work well on them except from behind.
Holofields and stones are pathetic? I'd say annoying
How are those runes of f-u treating your psykers
Lances and starcannon, baby... they make marines go eep!
And no, I don't play eldar currently. I play someone regularly who does, and he's a damn good player with them
I fully go along with your eldar-stomping sympathies though
Automatically Appended Next Post: [
NoBaconz4You wrote:They should be part of C:SM as elite choices, not a whole army.
They did that kind of thing in the Dawn Of War games and I always thought it made more sense to me than them being fielded as an entire army.
I think originally they were ?
I remember them as Grey Knights that always had terminator armour and bolter-halberds The fluff then was that they were the only chapter with enough terminator armour to equip the whole chapter, and they all had psychic hoods. Things have moved on since the good old days..
Back in the good old days... *fades out to the sound of the way-back-machine*
Melissia wrote:I know what a treadhead is, but what's a threadhead?
Commander Endova wrote:I went with Chaos Deamons/Chaos Space Marines. I don;t think that they should get rid of those books, just sort of combine them.
I hope they never combine them again. I would never play a whinyboy marines army (IE, all chaos space marines, the only faction whose fluff I honestly dislike), but I WOULD potentially play a chaos daemons army.
For my part, if I HAD to get rid of stuff? I'd combine the marine factions into one book with options to customize (an assault based army with elite scouts and etc to represent wolves and templar, a mobility based bikes/jump troops army to represent blood angels and white scars, shooty based army to represent dark angels and etc) its FoC.
QFT
All these marine factions are slowing down the bringing-up-to-date of all the 4ed codices. Just add some special characters, chapter specific units, and (as Melissia said) cusotmizable FoC.
Don't understand all this anti-Tau hating, they have fluff that actually makes sense *cough* unlikeGreyKnightsbathinginthebloodoftheSistersofBattle *cough*
I remember them as Grey Knights that always had terminator armour and bolter-halberds The fluff then was that they were the only chapter with enough terminator armour to equip the whole chapter, and they all had psychic hoods. Things have moved on since the good old days..
Back in the good old days... *fades out to the sound of the way-back-machine*
Ah, that would explain it then, maybe I read about it many years ago before the Daemonhunters Codex and it's subconsciously stuck with me as being 'right'.
Ascalam wrote:never been up against a competent Eldar player then?
True I haven't
The local eldar player doesn't make proper use of his transports and almost everything else he owns. Yeah, holofields are a , but one good lascannon is usually enough for me The point remains, whether I'm shooting, nomming, or beating them down, I love it
I remember them as Grey Knights that always had terminator armour and bolter-halberds The fluff then was that they were the only chapter with enough terminator armour to equip the whole chapter, and they all had psychic hoods. Things have moved on since the good old days..
Back in the good old days... *fades out to the sound of the way-back-machine*
Even back then, I am pretty sure the bolters weren't built into the halberds, but yeah, I do remember when they ALL had halberds...good ol' days...
And I am pretty sure that even if they had enough terminator armour, they wouldn't equip everyone, just because they would need mobility and flexibility...
I have several of the ancient models with the bolter built just behind the halberd head instead of on the wrist. First time i remember them showing up was as an exdpansion to space hulk, i think. There was an awesome black and white pic of a Genestealer Magus lightning-deathing several terminators and then it grounding out on a grey knight's fist and psychic shield
They had no truck back then with mobility and flexibility. They would just teleport in and beat face
Tau or necrons, i can't say i am a 40k buff, but i there role in the universe doesnt quite fit... we have the 'protagonist' in the imperium, the crazy nutters who don't care in the orks, the ancient race- eldar, the 'kill the universe' in the tyranids, the main antagonist in chaos
hlaine.larkin wrote:Tau or necrons, i can't say i am a 40k buff, but i there role in the universe doesnt quite fit... we have the 'protagonist' in the imperium, the crazy nutters who don't care in the orks, the ancient race- eldar, the 'kill the universe' in the tyranids, the main antagonist in chaos
protagonist is 110% opinion. If you read Blood Gorgons, you'll see that, despite being chaos, they are a logical, likable bunch. They are protagonists too.
And they do fit in.
Necrons=soulless, unstoppable death that just stands back up when you kill it. They are basically zombies in space. Especially their "flayed ones".
The Tau= new race with potential, a manifest destiny, and total inexperience in dealing with the horrors of the warp. In most sci-fi, this is the role of humanity, rather than humanity being the biggest, most powerful faction who would insta-win if they only had one faction to fight. The Tau are similar to the humans in "Halo" for example, with battlesuit being their pseudo-Spartans.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Ascalam wrote:They were
I have several of the ancient models with the bolter built just behind the halberd head instead of on the wrist. First time i remember them showing up was as an exdpansion to space hulk, i think. There was an awesome black and white pic of a Genestealer Magus lightning-deathing several terminators and then it grounding out on a grey knight's fist and psychic shield
They had no truck back then with mobility and flexibility. They would just teleport in and beat face
I'll see if i can find the pic
The old models seem like ghetto Custodes by your description. No ghetto due to being poor, just ghetto because EVERYTHING is ghetto compared to Custodes.
Reflex wrote:Tau... anime should hold no ground in the 41st millennium
never understood this, how do Tau look like anime characters exactly?
is it because they have mechs?
the mechs dont resemble any I've ever seen in any anime, but maybe thats just me
Anyways my personal choice goes to Eldar, their soldiers look absolutely ridiculous
I play Tau and I guess it is that the suits look somewhat like gundams.
As for me, It would be my Tau for game play. (come on new dex)
Reflex wrote:Tau... anime should hold no ground in the 41st millennium
never understood this, how do Tau look like anime characters exactly?
is it because they have mechs?
the mechs dont resemble any I've ever seen in any anime, but maybe thats just me
Anyways my personal choice goes to Eldar, their soldiers look absolutely ridiculous
I play Tau and I guess it is that the suits look somewhat like gundams.
As for me, It would be my Tau for game play. (come on new dex)
My friend started playing 40k because the Tau reminded him of something out of an anime.
Reflex wrote:Tau... anime should hold no ground in the 41st millennium
never understood this, how do Tau look like anime characters exactly?
is it because they have mechs?
the mechs dont resemble any I've ever seen in any anime, but maybe thats just me
Anyways my personal choice goes to Eldar, their soldiers look absolutely ridiculous
I play Tau and I guess it is that the suits look somewhat like gundams.
As for me, It would be my Tau for game play. (come on new dex)
My friend started playing 40k because the Tau reminded him of something out of an anime.
Well I started Tau because they are like badass marinated in ninja sauce...
Melissia wrote:I hope they never combine them again. I would never play a whinyboy marines army (IE, all chaos space marines, the only faction whose fluff I honestly dislike), but I WOULD potentially play a chaos daemons army.
I used to think much like you do, but recent Chaos Marine fluff has redeemed them somewhat (fluffwise) in my eyes. The Night Lords books by Dembski-Bowden and to a lesser extent Blood Gorgons by Zhou have done an excellent job of portraying Chaos Marines as rounded, believable, 3-dimensional characters, yet still corrupted to the core. And not just a bunch of lunatics waving their chain axes for the last 10,000 years. The great thing about ADB is that he was a 40k fluff fan before he was a 40k fluff writer, and he uses his books to answer some obvious questions the community has been asking for years, the best being
Spoiler:
When Abaddon commands the Night Lords to assist the Black Legion in a campaign, and Talos replies well why should we follow you, you've been failing for the last 10k years. And then basically says he's no Warmaster worthy of the name.
I am surprised so many people hate most of these langauges. I love most of the hated ones, except of course chaos which are like the best. Anyway why do you guys not like some of these chapters/legions
bob the heretic wrote:Love them all! Except they should cobine chaos demons and maines
And take away the space marine codex and make a Ultra Marine instead.
I agree with your statement about combining chaos, so I can have my fiends and tainted termies, 'errybodeh wins.
In order, these are the one who should go and why:
1. Space marines in all forms, because they're so generic, it's not funny, and they're as fun to play against as washing dishes by hand. There's nothing more annoying than the 12-year-olds who take shots at everything with krak missles, amirite? Not only that, the standard space marine codex makes them less competitive than, say, oh, I dunno, dark angels.
2.chaos daemons, because only the troops and heavy support are plastic, everything else is metal, even the battleforce has/had this issue, that, and 70% of your choices are inadequate for competitive play. While I have a place for them in my heart, they're very unforgiving, expensive, and even though they're cross compatible with WHFB, where they're really good, they are NOT FOR BEGINNERS.
3. tau, they're awful in CC, and kroot don't make up for it, and the compulsory fire warrior troop choice doesn't help either.
4. Necrons, because let's face it, their phasing rule and ancient codex aren't helping, I'll probably have a better opinion after the new codex, but as of now, I'm not fond of them.
5. Tyranids, while fun to play, they're not so forgiving, with high armor saves and the typical horde point/model cost, you're going to have a lot of minis to assemble/paint/transport, and many will die to flamers and template weapons, not to mention low BS and WS typical in horde armies, usually makes them vulnerable to elite armies with high stats and low armor saves, the saving grace tactic, like going to ground with daemons, is the utilisation of cover saves.
6. Sisters of battle/witch hunters, seriously, their models are all metal, still, their codex is ancient, they were originally designed to get girls into the game, but as of now, the only people I see playing them are the 4chan and deviantart users who like them for their fluff and fanart, I say plastic and new codex or GTHO
i love my blood angels. that's right, i shake my head in defiance of you angel haters i've been playing since the PDF days...anyway i picked Tau, coz i just don't like their playing style or the look of them. one good punch and it looks like they will die, they look so unfit for combat and i just don't like that animeish themed look
Eldar...
They are so often quoted as a dying race...yet they release models that look like spring flowers and so forth.....and more and more craftworlds are created each year.
bob the heretic wrote:Love them all! Except they should cobine chaos demons and maines
And take away the space marine codex and make a Ultra Marine instead.
I agree with your statement about combining chaos, so I can have my fiends and tainted termies, 'errybodeh wins.
In order, these are the one who should go and why:
1. Space marines in all forms, because they're so generic, it's not funny, and they're as fun to play against as washing dishes by hand. There's nothing more annoying than the 12-year-olds who take shots at everything with krak missles, amirite? Not only that, the standard space marine codex makes them less competitive than, say, oh, I dunno, dark angels.
2.chaos daemons, because only the troops and heavy support are plastic, everything else is metal, even the battleforce has/had this issue, that, and 70% of your choices are inadequate for competitive play. While I have a place for them in my heart, they're very unforgiving, expensive, and even though they're cross compatible with WHFB, where they're really good, they are NOT FOR BEGINNERS.
3. tau, they're awful in CC, and kroot don't make up for it, and the compulsory fire warrior troop choice doesn't help either.
4. Necrons, because let's face it, their phasing rule and ancient codex aren't helping, I'll probably have a better opinion after the new codex, but as of now, I'm not fond of them.
5. Tyranids, while fun to play, they're not so forgiving, with high armor saves and the typical horde point/model cost, you're going to have a lot of minis to assemble/paint/transport, and many will die to flamers and template weapons, not to mention low BS and WS typical in horde armies, usually makes them vulnerable to elite armies with high stats and low armor saves, the saving grace tactic, like going to ground with daemons, is the utilisation of cover saves.
6. Sisters of battle/witch hunters, seriously, their models are all metal, still, their codex is ancient, they were originally designed to get girls into the game, but as of now, the only people I see playing them are the 4chan and deviantart users who like them for their fluff and fanart, I say plastic and new codex or GTHO
Basically, get rid of every army you don't like? That was just about the most god-awful post I have ever seen. All armies have strengths and weaknessess, and any weaknesses that you don't like means the army should stop existing to make you happy?
bob the heretic wrote:Love them all! Except they should cobine chaos demons and marines
And take away the space marine codex and make a Ultra Marine instead.
I agree with your statement about combining chaos, so I can have my fiends and tainted termies, 'errybodeh wins.
In order, these are the one who should go and why:
1. Space marines in all forms, because they're so generic, it's not funny, and they're as fun to play against as washing dishes by hand. There's nothing more annoying than the 12-year-olds who take shots at everything with krak missles, amirite? Not only that, the standard space marine codex makes them less competitive than, say, oh, I dunno, dark angels.
2.chaos daemons, because only the troops and heavy support are plastic, everything else is metal, even the battleforce has/had this issue, that, and 70% of your choices are inadequate for competitive play. While I have a place for them in my heart, they're very unforgiving, expensive, and even though they're cross compatible with WHFB, where they're really good, they are NOT FOR BEGINNERS.
3. tau, they're awful in CC, and kroot don't make up for it, and the compulsory fire warrior troop choice doesn't help either.
4. Necrons, because let's face it, their phasing rule and ancient codex aren't helping, I'll probably have a better opinion after the new codex, but as of now, I'm not fond of them.
5. Tyranids, while fun to play, they're not so forgiving, with high armor saves and the typical horde point/model cost, you're going to have a lot of minis to assemble/paint/transport, and many will die to flamers and template weapons, not to mention low BS and WS typical in horde armies, usually makes them vulnerable to elite armies with high stats and low armor saves, the saving grace tactic, like going to ground with daemons, is the utilisation of cover saves.
6. Sisters of battle/witch hunters, seriously, their models are all metal, still, their codex is ancient, they were originally designed to get girls into the game, but as of now, the only people I see playing them are the 4chan and deviantart users who like them for their fluff and fanart, I say plastic and new codex or GTHO
Basically, get rid of every army you don't like? That was just about the most god-awful post I have ever seen. All armies have strengths and weaknessess, and any weaknesses that you don't like means the army should stop existing to make you happy?
No, only one army goes, maybe I should've stated that
I've played all of those armies except tau. And in deciding ONE army that had to go, I would pick one of the ones I mentioned. Of course, seeing you get worked up about it, I guess I listed one of your armies. The truth is I listed the armies I did based upon observations I've made while playing with/against them.
Also though, you will never get rid of Vanilla Marines. You can pray that the other nilla rine codices go away (BA, DA, BT, SW) but it just wouldnt make sense to not have SM. Plus none of the other armies are as easy to start.
For me? Space Wolves. "CSM undivided+1". I'm not entirely sure what Phil Kelly was thinking when he wrote this book, but he made damn sure to they could shoot damn near like IG, fight better than CSM's, with psykers to make the eldar cry, and have to spend fewer points on these things than most other armies and equivalents. For what was billed as a small model count CC Viking Space Hero book, we sure got a lot of MSU gunline spam out of it. Long Fangs and Grey Hunters in particular are major offenders. Long Fangs being probably the most efficiently costed heavy weapons in the game, and at the same time some of the most effective as well, while GH's end up being CSM's with all the SM rules, plus counterattack, for fewer points. It's been a very long time since I saw an SW army that wasn't based around spamming Long Fangs, JotWW/LL priests, and Mech'd or MSUGH's, occaisionally with TWC's. It also doesn't help that most SW players are...very recent converts, as evidenced best by Adepticon.
I can't remember the last time I saw an SW army that actually looked like a Space Wolves army, as opposed to Iron Warriors army in grey. (and no, I'm not advocating using C:SW for Iron Warriors before someone starts on that).
BA's are a close second for many of the same reasons. An army billed as a furious close combat jump pack army, we sure do have a lot of AV13 fast battletanks and MSU Razorback spam. For an army of jump pack assault specialists, I'm not sure why they are the closest competitor to IG for tank gunlines and armor saturation. It's also hard to fathom why they have so many more dreads than any other army.
That's actually one of the problems with the extra SM codices. I'd be absolutely fine, thrilled even, if they were unique- that is, if the Space Wolves had small model counts, mostly comprised of footslogging Heroes, almost Movie Marine style, or if Blood Angels were nothing but Jump Infantry and Drop Pods, DoA style.
The problem arises because, instead of GW saying, "Hey, let's make these chapters completely different from regular Space Marines, even down to FoC organization (that is, what is and isn't a Troop, HS, FA, etc.) and expense", they apparently went with "Hey, let's make Space Marine books that do nothing but add fluff and 4 unique units, plus a little unique wargear".
That is, you could approximate a SW or BA army using the C:SM, and you could approximate Vanilla Marines using C:SW and C:BA. You shouldn't be able to do that. All Space Wolves should be stronger and more expensive, even the most basic Troop, and all Blood Angels should be faster and more expensive, even the most basic Troop, than Vanilla Space Marines. You can't use the same tactics with Eldar and with Orks, or between Necrons and Daemons, so why should you be able to have near identical army lists from multiple codices when it comes to Space Marines?
Well, honestly, if I wanted to get rid of an army, I think it'd be daemons, due to being incredibly unforgiving, whilw being good in WHFB, they lack firepower in 40k
There are 6 loyalist marine codices (Nilla, SW, BA, BT, DA, GK) I think they should get rid of all of them except Vanilla, and then add one extra codex that is for first-founding chapters, as they are always the greatest marines, and this way they could add more specialized special characters/units.
earth-star wrote:Better yet, make it one codex, wile great for beginners, they're weapons can be a bit OP
I'm a big fan of the one marine codex idea, because I think it would be much less cumbersome, but I'm going to play devil's advocate here.
Right now, we have a lot of marine chapters combined into C:SM. The way it's set up, you can take SCs from different chapters in the same army – that is, I can take Vulkan and Pedro in the same list. It upsets purists, but it doesn't throw off the balance of things too much, and there is a cap.
However, you are going to run into troubles taking the other marine codices AS IS and incorporating them into the main SM book. There are a lot more SCs for each chapter, and they also get special units that are unique to their codex. Unless you strip all that away and standardize costs, or set up the book in different "chapters" (pardon the terrible, unintentional pun), each with a separate army listing, etc, then you will run into an issue where new players could be confused as to why their Deathwing can't include GK terminators, or why they can't run Mephiston and Long Fangs in the same list.
Xeno players can decry all of the attention that the marine chapters have gotten, often in preference of updating xeno codices, but the fact remains that a lot of people play specific marine chapters, and a lot of people enjoy the flavor and offerings of these books, and it would be a logistical nightmare to blend it all into one binding, if not unrealistic altogether, and potentially incomprehensible to new players.
It wouldn't be that difficult really. Look at BA's for instance. They outright share 80% of their units with C:SM. Most of the rest are variants of common units (e.g. Baal pred, Furioso Dread vs Ironclad, etc) that could be combined into a common, or at least variable, entry. In the end, you'd really only need to add maybe 1-3 units from each book and make allowances for some variation in options for most of the rest, and many units, probably half or more, wound't need changing at all. The biggest issue would be SC's, but not insurmountable by any means.
That way, we'd avoid the issues of multiple different versions of vehicles/wargear/weapons and wild variations in costing across what should be fairly identical armies. No more having some SM armies 10 years out of date relative to the newest one, etc. And lets be honest, it's not like a huge number of marine players aren't already treating the loyalist SM books as one single book already. You can take a C:SM army, and run it as C:BA or CA or C:SW or C:BT often only having to swap a dozen or fewer models (or none) between these books. Hell, at Adepticon 90% of the SW armies were "counts as" armies from other SM books, so it's not like people don't do this already.
earth-star wrote:Better yet, make it one codex, wile great for beginners, they're weapons can be a bit OP
I'm a big fan of the one marine codex idea, because I think it would be much less cumbersome, but I'm going to play devil's advocate here.
Right now, we have a lot of marine chapters combined into C:SM. The way it's set up, you can take SCs from different chapters in the same army – that is, I can take Vulkan and Pedro in the same list. It upsets purists, but it doesn't throw off the balance of things too much, and there is a cap.
However, you are going to run into troubles taking the other marine codices AS IS and incorporating them into the main SM book. There are a lot more SCs for each chapter, and they also get special units that are unique to their codex. Unless you strip all that away and standardize costs, or set up the book in different "chapters" (pardon the terrible, unintentional pun), each with a separate army listing, etc, then you will run into an issue where new players could be confused as to why their Deathwing can't include GK terminators, or why they can't run Mephiston and Long Fangs in the same list.
Xeno players can decry all of the attention that the marine chapters have gotten, often in preference of updating xeno codices, but the fact remains that a lot of people play specific marine chapters, and a lot of people enjoy the flavor and offerings of these books, and it would be a logistical nightmare to blend it all into one binding, if not unrealistic altogether, and potentially incomprehensible to new players.
Here's a pretty simple solution. Make it so that the Special Characters can ONLY be taken with their chapter, and if you take a special character, he can be accompanied by a chapter-specific unit.
I.E. take Mephiston and get Sanguinary Guard, Njal and get Wolfguard etc.
Vaktathi wrote:It wouldn't be that difficult really. Look at BA's for instance. They outright share 80% of their units with C:SM. Most of the rest are variants of common units (e.g. Baal pred, Furioso Dread vs Ironclad, etc) that could be combined into a common, or at least variable, entry. In the end, you'd really only need to add maybe 1-3 units from each book and make allowances for some variation in options for most of the rest, and many units, probably half or more, wound't need changing at all. The biggest issue would be SC's, but not insurmountable by any means.
remember when the 5th edition CSM codex came out, and people were using their blood angels to proxy them, and vice versa, players learned that the two armies shared a lot of similar wargear. It was then, many players, at least in my area decided to use the assault marines over the CSM models, due to cross compatability.
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tavoittamaton wrote:
earth-star wrote:Better yet, make it one codex, wile great for beginners, they're weapons can be a bit OP
I'm a big fan of the one marine codex idea, because I think it would be much less cumbersome, but I'm going to play devil's advocate here.
Right now, we have a lot of marine chapters combined into C:SM. The way it's set up, you can take SCs from different chapters in the same army – that is, I can take Vulkan and Pedro in the same list. It upsets purists, but it doesn't throw off the balance of things too much, and there is a cap.
However, you are going to run into troubles taking the other marine codices AS IS and incorporating them into the main SM book. There are a lot more SCs for each chapter, and they also get special units that are unique to their codex. Unless you strip all that away and standardize costs, or set up the book in different "chapters" (pardon the terrible, unintentional pun), each with a separate army listing, etc, then you will run into an issue where new players could be confused as to why their Deathwing can't include GK terminators, or why they can't run Mephiston and Long Fangs in the same list.
Xeno players can decry all of the attention that the marine chapters have gotten, often in preference of updating xeno codices, but the fact remains that a lot of people play specific marine chapters, and a lot of people enjoy the flavor and offerings of these books, and it would be a logistical nightmare to blend it all into one binding, if not unrealistic altogether, and potentially incomprehensible to new players.
All SMs could be combined into one MEGADEX(tm) or better, a MEGADEX and a second book for all the variant lists, requiring said MEGADEX.
But most of all, the Dark Angels should be done away with. They are a codex chapter, like BA's, but unlike them, they dont have any genitic defects or special equipment. Don't let you say "bbbb-but ravenwing!" because all other SM chapters have TWO bike companies and a land speeder company. Heck, I cant even think of a good chapter tactics idea for them.
While the Dark Angels stand as their own book, FOR NO REASON, I will continue to rage. Also, if a SM slot opens up, pick a non codex SM chapter that doesnt have rules. Maybe, I dunno, a first fonding one? With unorthadox equipment, outlook and orgainization to drive the BA and sons of Russ mad? How about one that Doesn't worship the Emperor? There are 10 good options fitting that bill, and ya kow who has their own Codex, let alone special charecter? NOT the Iron Hands, NOT any Chaos Legion, but the Dark, Mutha****in Angels of all people. OK, they are cool to some people, and have a rich backround, heck they have their own model range. That doesnt mean that they are better than the Salamanders or their bros in mastercrafting when Codexes are being passed out.
King Pariah wrote:I say in with Soul Drinkers out with Dark Angels
OMG that was EXACTLY what I was thinking when I read the previous post...They have all kinds of weird mutations, abilities, and best of all: ARE RENEGADE! a special chapter that isn't loyal or chaos...awesome...Plus I want a Sarpedon model.
Oh and could anybody tell me where the Blood Angles help the Necrons because a lot of my local gamers hate the Blood Angles for helping them but I can't find where they did.
Whatsit Tooya wrote:Wow I'm surprised nobody is hating on the Necrons, they're so hax with their freakin wwbb and their gauss weaponry.
And its because I hate them that I began to play them.
I think everyone is hating on them less because of the new update we're about to experience which nerfs WBB and Gauss and Warscythes... (But we're supposed to be getting a 72" S9 AP1 Large Blast/Heavy 1 gun though and Phase Out is supposed to be eliminated, still down about Warscythes being nerfed)
No, not getting rid of it, but apparently it's going to be turned into a 5+ Feel No Pain that can be rolled even against hits from something that would normally cancel it out.
GreyKnightful wrote:Tau and their frigging bubble eyes and anime babes...
and they look like voldemort. that can only mean one thing.....AVADAKADAVRA!!!
I bet you'd think different if you had a 3.8 tonne+ battlesuit drop out of the sky and turn you into liquid with it's railgun.
Despite that particular pic being anime, they are no more anime than some of the other WH40K cheese.
Dreadknights (optimus prime knock-off)
Dreadnoughts
Knights
Titans
Sentinels
Basically any walker actually...
But a 20 battlesuit army is a daunting foe, and can fit into a FoC.
9 in the elite section
Shas'O+two body guards (three suits)
Farsight Deathstar squad (eight suits)
Automatically Appended Next Post: Plus XV9s, you can get 6 (9?) of them in there too
Space Wolves. For a weird reason. There was this one old dude who plays them and has been since pre 2005. God he was so mean to me as a kid. I was probably being annoying but one time I decided to be polite and ask him what army he played. "I don't play an army, its called a chapter." The redshirt was like, "Calm down, he's new" "No, he needs to know"
Mewiththeface wrote:Space Wolves. For a weird reason. There was this one old dude who plays them and has been since pre 2005. God he was so mean to me as a kid. I was probably being annoying but one time I decided to be polite and ask him what army he played. "I don't play an army, its called a chapter." The redshirt was like, "Calm down, he's new" "No, he needs to know"
Wow...that's...rather silly. The only proper response to that I can think of is "thank you for educating me, I'll find another game".
I've gotta' say Necrons, which I know will be unpopular, but here me out.
They're shinny Tomb Kings in space. But a least the Tomb Kings have character. The Necrons are mindless drone slaves, that instantly fall over and die if they go anywhere near Chaos or anything vaguely warpy.
Which sucks.
Although, on that logic, these guys will screw the Tau in a heartbeat. Which would be good, because I don't like them either, but that's another story altogether.
They predate tomb kings IIRC. I think it was just 'Undead' back then...
Who said they shut down near chaos? The warp is anathema to the C'tan , but it says jack about the necrons themselves in any fluff i've read (there are some i haven't read, so shoot me ) about them switching off if a daemon lands on their world
The Necrons don't like parties. Jello makes them cranky. The tau have learned this the hard way.
hellrai3er wrote:Necrons, dam ugly minitures and they are blander then water. Followed directly by IG, exactly the same reason,
I completely agree
I think they WOULD be as bland as the stupid Guard if it weren`t for the green-ness.
A dash of green doesnt make up for the rest of the modle being all the same colour, even on the really well painted ones. That and every unit looks the same, some just bended in a different fassion! Still I love that the armies all look different and even the one i don't like some will love, be boring as hell to play if everyone liked one race!
Grey Knights, they're completely unneccessary. I thought Space Marines were supposed to be super soldiers, but no, we have to have SUPER super soldiers.
It's like a bunch of developers sat around smoking dope, trying to make the "coolest army ever." They thought they were being badass naming the GK the
"666th Chapter." Then they gave them all the "OFMGZ STOARM BOHLTARS AND FOURCE WEAPONS." But that wasn't enough. They had to add "PSYCHIHC WEAPOUNRY" and make them "UNCORUPTABLE BECUZ THEY'RE THE CHOZEN UNES MEHDE FRUHM THE EMPRAS' JEAN SEEEHD."
It's sickening.
Is it just me or is reading this post from an Ultramarine guy (can't be just normal super soldiers they have the be Ultra super soldiers from an Ultra place...) Just dripping with Irony?
Also why does it look like all the marine color schemes in the original Rogue Trader were from a weekend McDonalds coloring contest? "Here lil Jimmy, stay between the lines and use whatever colors you like and if you give them a neat name you might win a big mac and a sunday!"
It's clear to me the most hated army in 40k is the squats hence why I'm building retro style space dwarves but come on I'll happily play any army in the known multiverse but another generic primary colour marrine with vampire teen age self harmers or fur pelt junkies with a ineptitude to shave or the over zealous bible bashing twits.
samtheking wrote:Tau they are just a useless army with no real motivation
No motivation? Survival? Manifest Destiny? Expansion of the Empire? They are one of (if not the) most motivated races in wh40k.
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hellrai3er wrote:
im2randomghgh wrote:
Whatsit Tooya wrote:
hellrai3er wrote:Necrons, dam ugly minitures and they are blander then water. Followed directly by IG, exactly the same reason,
I completely agree
I think they WOULD be as bland as the stupid Guard if it weren`t for the green-ness.
A dash of green doesnt make up for the rest of the modle being all the same colour, even on the really well painted ones. That and every unit looks the same, some just bended in a different fassion! Still I love that the armies all look different and even the one i don't like some will love, be boring as hell to play if everyone liked one race!
I actually painted mine Chainmail with black stripling done (lightly). I thought they would be ugly, but they're nice
Tau, god I hate the Tau. What's the point in them? Any other faction could crush them no effort, and yet the Tau players still stand up for them like they're an invincible mary-sue be-all and end-all faction that can defeat everyone. Hypocrisy!
I hated the Tau when they first came out because I felt they didn't fit the setting, but now I just friendly hate them. Those jerks you love to hate, kind of thing. I don't have a problem with any army now.
Commander Endova wrote:I went with Chaos Deamons/Chaos Space Marines. I don;t think that they should get rid of those books, just sort of combine them.
DarkLight451 wrote:Is it weird that I don't hate any of these armies? I like all of their fluff and the way they look? I am going insane?!!!
it is very odd Jk its the most Popper answer
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htj wrote:I hated the Tau when they first came out because I felt they didn't fit the setting, but now I just friendly hate them. Those jerks you love to hate, kind of thing. I don't have a problem with any army now.
Warboss ZanZag wrote:I am amazed that no one has picked Eldar yet?.
That's because Eldar don't have OP units. In fact, since the 5th ed rules (Especially Run) Eldar have become rather average GEQ. Anyway, where would you be without Eldar? The Alpha Legion would still be loyalists, Ghazghkull wouldn't be any bigger than a nob, the Ultramarines would have been eaten by Hive Fleet Behemoth, Slaanesh wouldn't exist and many wargamers would be deprived of the most awe inspiring model range ever.
Don't you mean Kraken? Behemoth had nearly nothing to do with The Eldar. Even then, it was a completely separate battle, and the chapter was unspecified so Thraka would likely have turned out the same. If that is what you mean.
dagsta2 wrote:14% says you love them all even blood angles
That 14% can go die for the sin of being Space Marines players. Except Grey Knights. We have something special planned for them. If you could all line up at that small guillotine by the corner...
iproxtaco wrote:Don't you mean Kraken? Behemoth had nearly nothing to do with The Eldar. Even then, it was a completely separate battle.
See Malantai and the other two craftworlds that spent time and resources attacking Behemoth in the back.
Interestingly the 4th Ed battle for macragge rulebook said that Iyanden was attacked by Behemoth. Apparently GW possesses some device that allows them to re-write time.
Commander Endova wrote:I went with Chaos Deamons/Chaos Space Marines. I don;t think that they should get rid of those books, just sort of combine them.
dagsta2 wrote:how do tau not fit the setting there blue
When they came out they felt quite radically different from the themes of the other armies that were already in the game. The similarities to mecha in various anime series was off putting to a lot of people, myself included, who saw them as a cynical cash-in, exploiting the burgeoning popularity of Japanese comics and animation. Heck, I was very into anime and manga at the time, and I still found them unwelcome.
However, the key thing to take from what I said is my use of the past tense. I don't feel that way anymore. Time is a healer, after all, and now they have been in the setting long enough that they don't feel out of place. I guess if you came into the game after they were released, they wouldn't seem out of place at all, since they were an integral part of the 40K universe from the get-go for you.
Several Eldar Craftworlds sent resources to eliminate Hive Fleet Naga, a separate fleet from Behemoth.
It's a distinct lack of continuity that's very confusing. Adding all these extra fleets is not something I like. Behemoth, Kraken, Leviathan, that's all that should in my opinion exist.
iproxtaco wrote:Several Eldar Craftworlds sent resources to eliminate Hive Fleet Naga, a separate fleet from Behemoth.
It's a distinct lack of continuity that's very confusing. Adding all these extra fleets is not something I like. Behemoth, Kraken, Leviathan, that's all that should in my opinion exist.
Another thing I realized I don't like about the latest Tyranid codex, aside from the general weakness of most of the units and the absence of some of the best.
Still, Tau is my least favorite. I like nearly nothing about them anymore.
iproxtaco wrote:Another thing I realized I don't like about the latest Tyranid codex, aside from the general weakness of most of the units and the absence of some of the best.
Still, Tau is my least favorite. I like nearly nothing about them anymore.
I really don't mind Tau. At least they're well balanced. GKs on the other hand... Then blood angels. Orks are in serious need of an upgrade. It's pretty easy to totally outmatch them, even with the seriously dated Eldar codex.
And if anyone complains about Eldar fire dragons, T3, 4+ sv and 16 pts each. They die like guardsmen, even from a falcon or WS.
I voted fot all the SM flavour's and the Chaos daemon's. Not because I think they should be dropped, but as others have said, I'd like them combined into a single Space Marine and a single Forces of Chaos book.
iproxtaco wrote:Another thing I realized I don't like about the latest Tyranid codex, aside from the general weakness of most of the units and the absence of some of the best.
Still, Tau is my least favorite. I like nearly nothing about them anymore.
I really don't mind Tau. At least they're well balanced. GKs on the other hand... Then blood angels. Orks are in serious need of an upgrade. It's pretty easy to totally outmatch them, even with the seriously dated Eldar codex.
And if anyone complains about Eldar fire dragons, T3, 4+ sv and 16 pts each. They die like guardsmen, even from a falcon or WS.
You're horribly ignorant of game balance if you think Grey Knights are unbalanced on the level of The Blood Angels, and not even close to what can happen with the Space Wolves. Orks have a 4th ed codex that is balanced and fair. They don't need a massive up-grade like perhaps the Tau or Eldar, Necrons or Sisters of Battle, and Chaos Space Marines need one.
Eldar die like Guardsmen? Have you played or play Eldar with a competent general commanding them? Ha, they most certainly do not die by the literal bucket load in a 1500 point game. Imperial Guard are powerful, probably one of the most powerful armies out. They don't need a codex any time soon. Their standard troops may die easily enough, but they have more than enough abilities and other units to make up for that.
iproxtaco wrote:Another thing I realized I don't like about the latest Tyranid codex, aside from the general weakness of most of the units and the absence of some of the best.
Still, Tau is my least favorite. I like nearly nothing about them anymore.
I really don't mind Tau. At least they're well balanced. GKs on the other hand... Then blood angels. Orks are in serious need of an upgrade. It's pretty easy to totally outmatch them, even with the seriously dated Eldar codex.
And if anyone complains about Eldar fire dragons, T3, 4+ sv and 16 pts each. They die like guardsmen, even from a falcon or WS.
as an ork player i can say we are doing pretty well. I have alot of fun playing my army and can be very competative if i'm in the mood to play seriously which is very unorky.
I agree that the tau are jus tthe tau. they need a new codex pretty badly as do eldar and as much as it pains me to say a sm codex needs updating black templars need one too though with any luck matt ward won't make them as bad to play as wolves or blood angels.
I'd somewhat disagree on grey knights. they are definatly overpowered and should cost even more per model in points than they do or would do well for a nerf. but I still think wolves and blood angels are even worse... space wolves are so bad even though i can curb stop them with ork shooting due to massive amounts of fire power i just don't even enjoy playing them. I want my boys to be happy and in an assault but i can't because if i charge a 10 man tac squad with 30 orks and a nob there is a good chance they will lose 20ish models and then fall to a sweepign advance which is pretty rediculous .. and blood angels are even worse
Sure their fluff sucked because of Mr Ward but hey what quite a few of us realize is
A - Matt Ward didn't do the book single handedly. Their was a team involved so IT COULD BE that 1 fool said the wrong thing and now Matt takes the Bullet.
B - BA are awesome cause I have to use their codex to play Raven Guard - (In my defense the generic Codex doesn't feel Raven Guard enough to me. I need Assault Marines as troops . The fact that they have the red thirst special rule Isn't an issue to me. I just have to make some extra fluff)
Sure their fluff sucked because of Mr Ward but hey what quite a few of us realize is
A - Matt Ward didn't do the book single handedly. Their was a team involved so IT COULD BE that 1 fool said the wrong thing and now Matt takes the Bullet.
B - BA are awesome cause I have to use their codex to play Raven Guard - (In my defense the generic Codex doesn't feel Raven Guard enough to me. I need Assault Marines as troops . The fact that they have the red thirst special rule Isn't an issue to me. I just have to make some extra fluff)
Quite a few of us realise that Blood Angels are awesome because you have to use their codex to play Raven Guard?
I think the majority of the hate stems from either the perception of them being over-powered in their new codex, and the sudden increase in Blood Angels players due to that, or the fact that almost every item of wargear they have has the word 'Blood' before it.
Personally, I can take 'em or leave 'em. Although, for the record, I was hating Blood Angels before it was cool. Back when they were in the Angels of Death book. Hating Blood Angels is so nineties.
What I was mean to say was I think BA are awesome for me cause....no wait i think that would be the same DAMN IT HTJ you gave me a headache!
Also If your saying that everything in the BA codex begins with blood then why isnt everything in the DA codex begin with Dark? But yea I will agree that BA are overpowered but like I said. Thats not the reason I play them for. In my opinion I like having to make my own fluff so i can get away with playing RG as BA.
KnightOfTheRaven wrote:What I was mean to say was I think BA are awesome for me cause....no wait i think that would be the same DAMN IT HTJ you gave me a headache!
Also If your saying that everything in the BA codex begins with blood then why isnt everything in the DA codex begin with Dark? But yea I will agree that BA are overpowered but like I said. Thats not the reason I play them for. In my opinion I like having to make my own fluff so i can get away with playing RG as BA.
Well, I live to give.
I believe it was Sun-Tzu who said: Haters gonna hate.
iproxtaco wrote:Tau, god I hate the Tau. What's the point in them? Any other faction could crush them no effort, and yet the Tau players still stand up for them like they're an invincible mary-sue be-all and end-all faction that can defeat everyone.
Hypocrisy!
They obviously aren't a galactic power but XV8s FTW.
winnertakesall wrote:lol at the fact is mostly the very competive armies no-one likes.
Notice that, while IG is very powerful, often considered amongst the most powerful with Wolves, it's decidedly smack dab in the middle here, while the 3 newest Marine books are by far clearly the least liked. The # 1,3 and 5 least liked armies are Mat Ward books..every book he's written for 40k
I voted for Blood Angels and Space Wolves. Both books are marine codices yet do not differ radically in terms of rules to justify a separate book. Their rule sets are incredibly easy to incorporate into the vanilla book (via add on rules, counts as etc). I didn’t vote for DA and BT as rule wise, both books are radically different from the vanilla book.
I also voted for Chaos Daemons as they were something that should never have been taken out of the CSM book. Chaos has always been close quarters MEQs that made up for their lower level of tech with daemons and removing the daemons from the CSM codex left a big void in the codex. If I were to offer an analogy, it would be like GW removing Deathwing from the DA codex and giving them a separate codex. Honestly, if GW wanted to allow a pure daemons force to be playable, they could easily have done this via additional rules in a CSM codex.
candy.man wrote:I voted for Blood Angels and Space Wolves. Both books are marine codices yet do not differ radically in terms of rules to justify a separate book. Their rule sets are incredibly easy to incorporate into the vanilla book (via add on rules, counts as etc). I didn’t vote for DA and BT as rule wise, both books are radically different from the vanilla book.
I also voted for Chaos Daemons as they were something that should never have been taken out of the CSM book. Chaos has always been close quarters MEQs that made up for their lower level of tech with daemons and removing the daemons from the CSM codex left a big void in the codex. If I were to offer an analogy, it would be like GW removing Deathwing from the DA codex and giving them a separate codex. Honestly, if GW wanted to allow a pure daemons force to be playable, they could easily have done this via additional rules in a CSM codex.
WHAT? Space Wolves are many, many times more distinct from the nilla marines than either DA OR BT. SW and BA are the only ones that differ drastically enough for their own codex.
Case and point: BT and DA are under the heading for regular space marines on the GW site, whereas SW and BA have their own thing.
@im2randomghgh
If that’s your opinion that’s cool but my opinion is based on codex rules, not fluff. BA and Space Wolves rulewise are essentially vanilla marines with chapter tactics swapped out and a few additional units/upgrades/rules added in. Model and fluff wise, they are distinct from vanilla marines. If the BA and SW codex deviated from the vanilla ruleset as much as BT/DA did than they would not have earned a vote from me. The similarity with the vanilla ruleset is one of the reasons vanilla players are able to easily migrate their forces to the BA/SW codices without issue.
candy.man wrote:I voted for Blood Angels and Space Wolves. Both books are marine codices yet do not differ radically in terms of rules to justify a separate book. Their rule sets are incredibly easy to incorporate into the vanilla book (via add on rules, counts as etc). I didn’t vote for DA and BT as rule wise, both books are radically different from the vanilla book.
How are Ba and SW's NOT RADICALLY DIFFERENT, but DA are??!!
Are you mad?
you can make a DA list using the Vanilla Dex (Captain on Bike ---> Ravenwing,) or SW (Loganwing), but you cant make a BA or SW army from the Vanilla dex.
Yes the BT are separate, but only to the same degree the BA an SW's are. Its the DA who need to be incorporated into the vanilla DEx.
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candy.man wrote:@im2randomghgh
If that’s your opinion that’s cool but my opinion is based on codex rules, not fluff. BA and Space Wolves rulewise are essentially vanilla marines with chapter tactics swapped out and a few additional units/upgrades/rules added in. Model and fluff wise, they are distinct from vanilla marines. If the BA and SW codex deviated from the vanilla ruleset as much as BT/DA did than they would not have earned a vote from me. The similarity with the vanilla ruleset is one of the reasons vanilla players are able to easily migrate their forces to the BA/SW codices without issue.
And what exactly is so different between the Vanilla dex and the DA one?
Trust me, there is far greater divergence between the BA/SW codex and the vanilla codex than there is between the DA and vanilla.
candy.man wrote:@im2randomghgh
If that’s your opinion that’s cool but my opinion is based on codex rules, not fluff. BA and Space Wolves rulewise are essentially vanilla marines with chapter tactics swapped out and a few additional units/upgrades/rules added in. Model and fluff wise, they are distinct from vanilla marines. If the BA and SW codex deviated from the vanilla ruleset as much as BT/DA did than they would not have earned a vote from me. The similarity with the vanilla ruleset is one of the reasons vanilla players are able to easily migrate their forces to the BA/SW codices without issue.
I was talking about codex rules.
Codex rules the biggest deviations are SW and BA,
Fluff wise the biggest deviations are SW and BT, as they are both many, many times the size of a chapter (space wolves are still technically a legion, as they created two successors then stopped), with BA close behind, and DA being by FAR the least different, in ALL respects (fluff, crunch and models)
candy.man wrote:@im2randomghgh
If that’s your opinion that’s cool but my opinion is based on codex rules, not fluff. BA and Space Wolves rulewise are essentially vanilla marines with chapter tactics swapped out and a few additional units/upgrades/rules added in. Model and fluff wise, they are distinct from vanilla marines. If the BA and SW codex deviated from the vanilla ruleset as much as BT/DA did than they would not have earned a vote from me. The similarity with the vanilla ruleset is one of the reasons vanilla players are able to easily migrate their forces to the BA/SW codices without issue.
I was talking about codex rules.
Codex rules the biggest deviations are SW and BA,
Fluff wise the biggest deviations are SW and BT, as they are both many, many times the size of a chapter (space wolves are still technically a legion, as they created two successors then stopped), with BA close behind, and DA being by FAR the least different, in ALL respects (fluff, crunch and models)
^ What he said. (im not being particularly literate tonight)
Is it strange that the Grey Knights have sort of grown on me? At first I was all "CheesE!" but now I sort of like how they're the 'unconquerable Space Marines!', and the fact that the wargear and units are so much different than Vanillarines is pretty neat to me, too. Sort of a look at fluff kinda almost matching crunch.
I voted Dark Angels. At the present, there is really no reason for them to have a codex for themselves. There is nothing their codex can do that any other marine codex can do better. I still like them thematically and aesthetically, though.
I go with space wolves. putting half-mad wolf-men in 40k is stupid. space wolves should be some sort of fantasy army.
also, i think tau should go. they're just a little overpowered
thefarseerofnorthryde wrote:I go with space wolves. putting half-mad wolf-men in 40k is stupid. space wolves should be some sort of fantasy army.
also, i think tau should go. they're just a little overpowered
I think space wolves are perfect in the 40k setting. The whole 40k universe is over the top and nothing is more over the top then Space vikings that can change into werewolves.
thefarseerofnorthryde wrote:I go with space wolves. putting half-mad wolf-men in 40k is stupid. space wolves should be some sort of fantasy army.
also, i think tau should go. they're just a little overpowered
HAHAHA
Tau are amongst the most drastically under-powered armies in wh40k, and they're usually not even considered competitive. They need to be made significantly more powerful. When an army designed for shooting is less shooty than armies not designed for it, you have a problem. All space marines, IG, DE, and even eldar can more often than not out-shoot them.
thefarseerofnorthryde wrote:I go with space wolves. putting half-mad wolf-men in 40k is stupid. space wolves should be some sort of fantasy army.
also, i think tau should go. they're just a little overpowered
HAHAHA
Tau are amongst the most drastically under-powered armies in wh40k, and they're usually not even considered competitive. They need to be made significantly more powerful. When an army designed for shooting is less shooty than armies not designed for it, you have a problem. All space marines, IG, DE, and even eldar can more often than not out-shoot them.
To be fair, while I agree with most of this, IG have always been able to put out more raw firepower than the Tau, the Tau were more mobile and tricksy. That said, many of these issues are not restricted to Tau alone, SW's can outshoot damn near anything, even many mech IG armies (at least in terms of long range Anti-Tank) thanks to MSU Razorback spam and their stupidly undercosted Long Fangs, despite supposedly being an aggressive CC army.
thefarseerofnorthryde wrote:I go with space wolves. putting half-mad wolf-men in 40k is stupid. space wolves should be some sort of fantasy army.
also, i think tau should go. they're just a little overpowered
HAHAHA
Tau are amongst the most drastically under-powered armies in wh40k, and they're usually not even considered competitive. They need to be made significantly more powerful. When an army designed for shooting is less shooty than armies not designed for it, you have a problem. All space marines, IG, DE, and even eldar can more often than not out-shoot them.
To be fair, while I agree with most of this, IG have always been able to put out more raw firepower than the Tau, the Tau were more mobile and tricksy. That said, many of these issues are not restricted to Tau alone, SW's can outshoot damn near anything, even many mech IG armies (at least in terms of long range Anti-Tank) thanks to MSU Razorback spam and their stupidly undercosted Long Fangs, despite supposedly being an aggressive CC army.
I am not saying that Tau had more firepower. At any point. I am saying in 4ed they were able to out-shoot IG. Having units that have two weapons, each roughly the equivalent of a devastator's weapon, that can dance around anything with their blingin' jet packs is definately helpful.
I am not saying that Tau had more firepower. At any point. I am saying in 4ed they were able to out-shoot IG. Having units that have two weapons, each roughly the equivalent of a devastator's weapon, that can dance around anything with their blingin' jet packs is definately helpful.
To be fair, IG were often outshot in 4E not only by Tau but also SM's (lol 6 devestator squad armies... min/max'd las/plas squads, Iron Warriors Gunlines, etc), Eldar and even Orks at the tail end of 4E (max's lootas units, tons of shoota boyz...could definitely outshoot many 4E IG armies). IG in 3E/4E were...awful , I remember well those dark days, overcosted infantry, some of the most expensive heavy weapons in the game, terrible tanks and core tank rules, and little ability to maneuver, plus terrain rules that often meant nothing ever saw further than 24" away.
I am not saying that Tau had more firepower. At any point. I am saying in 4ed they were able to out-shoot IG. Having units that have two weapons, each roughly the equivalent of a devastator's weapon, that can dance around anything with their blingin' jet packs is definately helpful.
To be fair, IG were often outshot in 4E not only by Tau but also SM's (lol 6 devestator squad armies... min/max'd las/plas squads, Iron Warriors Gunlines, etc), Eldar and even Orks at the tail end of 4E (max's lootas units, tons of shoota boyz...could definitely outshoot many 4E IG armies). IG in 3E/4E were...awful , I remember well those dark days, overcosted infantry, some of the most expensive heavy weapons in the game, terrible tanks and core tank rules, and little ability to maneuver, plus terrain rules that often meant nothing ever saw further than 24" away.
My point was Tau could outshoot all/most armies when they were freshly updated.
I hate Imperial Guard the most. They just seem like 40k for WWII enthusiasts. Everything else is sci-fi/Fantasy, Marines and Eldar are obviously futuristic, Orks have the whole Mad Max style, Nids are Aliens. Then IG roll up in cammo looking like something from the 1950s and managing to be neither futuristic or fantasy, all while getting insane amounts of butt love from GW and FW regarding their tanks. Leman Russ battle tank is an ugly piece of crap too, and so is the Chimera and all their variants. But most annoying of all is IG fanboys (even more than Space Marine fanboys). Not a day passes on Dakka without someone dribbling on about how IG beat everything because there are billions of them and the... JUST SHUT THE HELL UP ALREADY!!! ><
I think my 2nd would be Space Wolves. Putting aside the whole 'Wolf McWolfingson riding a wolf' thing... The Space Wolves theme ever since 2nd edition seems to be: "We pay less points than regular marines, but have better units". Though what bugs me most about SW is that all the stupid wolf paraphernalia makes their figures almost impossible to use in any other chapter armies.
My honorary mention is going to be SoB... They are okay, but they are really just female Space Marines. Also I heard they were due a codex update so inb4 Saint Pure of Purethrax armed with Pure-grenades and the Hammer of Virginity that gives her purity +1. I'm going to get my hate in now before everyone and their dog starts playing them.
Smacks wrote:I hate Imperial Guard the most. They just seem like 40k for WWII enthusiasts. Everything else is sci-fi/Fantasy, Marines and Eldar are obviously futuristic, Orks have the whole Mad Max style, Nids are Aliens. Then IG roll up in cammo looking like something from the 1950s and managing to be neither futuristic or fantasy, all while getting insane amounts of butt love from GW and FW regarding their tanks. Leman Russ battle tank is an ugly piece of crap too, and so is the Chimera and all their variants. But most annoying of all is IG fanboys (even more than Space Marine fanboys). Not a day passes on Dakka without someone dribbling on about how IG beat everything because there are billions of them and the... JUST SHUT THE HELL UP ALREADY!!! ><
There are QUADRILLIONS Of Humans all over the universe. Probably a lot more than that. So yes.. They win by numbers and pure artillary. INAPPROPRIATE COMMENT REMOVED.-Mannahnin
I think my 2nd would be Space Wolves. Putting aside the whole 'Wolf McWolfingson riding a wolf' thing... The Space Wolves theme ever since 2nd edition seems to be: "We pay less points than regular marines, but have better units". Though what bugs me most about SW is that all the stupid wolf paraphernalia makes their figures almost impossible to use in any other chapter armies.
Oh Really? PERSONAL ATTACK REMOVED-Mannahnin ! For a Fully Equipt Grey Knight Troop I am playing 250 Points Each! That about more or less a land raider redeemer or crusader I think. x6..I need 1500 to make just for troop choices. My Terminators cost much more than vanilla marine termies.
We pay our points just like everyone else. Finally...Well...PERSONAL ATTACK REMOVED-Mannahnin OF COURSE THEY HAVE WOLF SKINS AND INAPPROPRIATE VERBIAGE REMOVED.-Mannahnin
!!! They are called Space Wolves PERSONAL ATTACK REMOVED-Mannahnin ! They live on a planet call Fenris, Where giant wolves live. Their Geneseed took a wolf like Aspect to it when it mutated. They live on an ice planet with Wolves. So complaining that you cant use them in another army like a vanilla marine is PERSONAL ATTACK REMOVED-Mannahnin . Really? Their Wolf Cloaks makes it hard to use them in other marine armies? Tha PERSONAL ATTACK REMOVED-Mannahnin
Space wolves are different than the others just like grey knights. What your complaining about would be like complaining that you cant take Grey Knight Terminators and use it in another army...because you CANT! They are Obviously different than any other terminator! Regardless of how you paint them or remodel them . Any bit you put on them to disguise them will still not be enough because they are THAT unique from any other termis and wont look the same.
Woah! cool the flame jets kid. The topic is which armies you hate. The topic was not: fap furiously over Space Wolves and nerd rage at anyone who dislikes Space Wolves with the fury of 1000 holocausts.
Space wolves aren't that special. They are just a Twighlight Warewolves version of Space Marines. Occasionally I will get a mixed lot of marines on ebay or something. Space Wolves take more effort to convert to vanilla marines than any other chapter like BA or DA or BT which is reason enough for me to be annoyed with them. YMMV try not to be TFG about it.
Oh Really? Your such an insulting personal remarks are not appropriate
First up, calm down. Second up, statements like these reflect a lot worse on you than they do on the person you're calling an idiot.
My Terminators cost much more than vanilla marine termies.
But have Counterattack and far more weapon options and cost less base.
We pay our points just like everyone else.
Space Wolves, really? They do? A 9 strong Grey Hunter squad sporting a meltagun with a Powerfist/Combi-weapon Wolf Guard sergeant in a Rhino is 218pts. A Chaos Space Marine squad with 2 meltaguns and a powerfist champ, plus an Icon of Chaos Glory to approximate "ATSKNF", all in a rhino, is 255pts, and doesn't have Acute Senses or the auto-play ability of Counterattack. 37pts more (almost 4pts per model) for a less capable squad.
Be real here, wolves are woefully undercosted.
Finally...Well...insulting personal remarks are not appropriate..
insulting personal remarks are not appropriate
Space wolves are different than the others just like grey knights.
No, not really, just better equipped and undercosted. Hence why SW's are by far the most popular bandwagon army out there. SW's were the most popular army at Adepticon...90% of the "SW" armies were other Marine armies using the SW list because it's just flat out better and cheaper, and they didn't have to change almost anything in their armies to take advantage of it. So yeah, they're different, if you take overequipped and undercosted to be different. I could take my CSM army, use the SW book, and all I'd have to do is swap a Daemon Prince for a Wolf Lord and I'd have *literally* the same army, but with Counterattack across the board and Acute Senses/ATSKNF, and about 140pts extra to play with.
Smacks wrote: Though what bugs me most about SW is that all the stupid wolf paraphernalia makes their figures almost impossible to use in any other chapter armies.
You're not supposed to use them for anything else. If you want marines for another army, THEN USE VANILLA MARINES!!!
I swear, dakka sign up should have a check-off box in their sign-up that says "I am not a third grader", just to screen them out.
I don't hate any army. I'd rather see all the current armies stay in the game than any one get knocked out, because I'd hate to mess with someone's little plastic army men. No, that's wrong of me to say . . . to the hobbyists for sure and a lot of the gamers, they're more than just plastic men. We've spent good money on them, we've taken the time to assemble them, to paint them, to take them from a sprue of plastic parts into small pieces of artwork. For me to say, "No, your collection is useless in the game now due to my personal prejudice," is just wrong.
They all have good points and bad points. Even my beloved Sisters of Battle have the unfortunate tendency to slaughter innocents when it's called for.
I 'hate' Nurgle and Space Wolves armies because I must. All glory to the Changer of Ways! All is Dust!
I dislike playing against GKs and DEs though since they seem to be tailor made to crush my 'Nids.* I'll play them and enjoy the challenge, but there is a difference between a challenge and getting blown away by Cleansing Flame, Psycannon Spam, or having an army of DE mock you from their raiders as they zip around the board after taking out your only chance of blowing them up(Hive Guard).
*which is what I play nowadays until Chaos returns to it's former glory
There should've been an option for "all non-codex marines". But then no-one would vote for anyone else. As it is, I would say DA, simply because a few hundred marines get a whole codex to themeselves, and it plays pretty much exactly the same as basic marines.
thefarseerofnorthryde wrote:I go with space wolves. putting half-mad wolf-men in 40k is stupid. space wolves should be some sort of fantasy army.
also, i think tau should go. they're just a little overpowered
HAHAHA
Tau are amongst the most drastically under-powered armies in wh40k, and they're usually not even considered competitive. They need to be made significantly more powerful. When an army designed for shooting is less shooty than armies not designed for it, you have a problem. All space marines, IG, DE, and even eldar can more often than not out-shoot them.
Except when i played, them, I was undefeated until I sold the army and moved on to shpess marines.
wow, a lot of hate for all the marine flavours. TIL that if it were up to dakka, the last three armies standing (as of this post) would be CSM, Orks, and Nids.
I can understand non marine players wishing there were less marine codices clogging up the releases of their new dex. But trying to combine them all into one dex would be impractical.
Even though you can look at some units in a vacuum and compare them to other chapter's units and say "well that's the same" they really do have their differences. Sure a lot of what DA can do is now in the SM codex, or taking all terminators in GK codex, they are not the same. And they were much more unique when the codex came out and will *hopefully* be more unique once they get their new dex. I play DA and vanilla marines, and my armies still play really different, something adding a few IC wouldn't replicate.
Then trying to cram all the different dexes into one massive dex would have several problems.
1) internally balancing all the units/abilities/characters ect.
2) trying to make it so droves of existing models/units we not made unusable.
3) trying to cram all the different play styles, rules, units, and characters into one dex and not make it way bigger and more expensive.
4) updating that massive codex would take much longer and eat up at least 2-3 normal dex windows anyway.
In a more general sense, I voted none. I would hate to see any player suffer through buying, modelling, painting, ect... an army only to see his/her codex vanish and not be playable. Or even half their army not playable and need to buy half another army since their codex was half heartedly crammed into another one. Or being forced to convert a finished army to be "counts as" some other army they didn't want to play or they would have started with them in the first place.
Would you really wish that on another WH40k player? Maybe the local TFGWAAC power gamer and his GK? Well what about the people playing them since back in the day? It's not their fault GW annoyed you with their new shiny dex, do they deserve to have their hard work and money flushed away?
pwntallica wrote:Even though you can look at some units in a vacuum and compare them to other chapter's units and say "well that's the same" they really do have their differences.
We're not trying to say that they're literally exactly the same, but the overlap is astonishing. You could easily replicate a vast majority of BA and DA, for example, with simply passing out a few special rules to a regular space marine army. Could you do literally exactly everything? No, but come on, you could do practically everything.
Compare the differences between SM and BA, and then compare the difference between SM and eldar, and you can see why people question all the SM 'dexes, especially ones as poorly done as BA.
pwntallica wrote:In a more general sense, I voted none. I would hate to see any player suffer through buying, modelling, painting, ect... an army only to see his/her codex vanish and not be playable.
Certainly, but you could EASILY make a splinter army work in the same codex. If you made a BA army, and they got appropriately rolled in, they wouldn't lose "half their army". Their tac squads would still be tac squads. Their rhinos would still be rhinos. Their captains would still be captains. Their dreadnoughts would still be dreadnoughts. Their drop pods would still be drop pods. Their land raiders would still be land raiders. The list goes on and on of models that they had that they would still be able to field as red marines rather than blood angels.
Really, there would only be a tiny number that would be excluded, but even then, you could still include them as something else. Power armor is modular that way. That mephiston model could still certainly be fielded as a chapter master, for example.
pwntallica wrote:1) internally balancing all the units/abilities/characters ect.
Do you think that the various splinter armies are MORE balanced now?
Having them all in the same codex would practically guarantee balance, as you wouldn't have some chapters (like BT and DA) getting old and falling behind, while having other armies (like GK and BA) being made with no tether to reality. Codices may not be 100% balanced between each other, but they do tend to be pretty well internally balanced. Putting more things into one codex would make balance better.
pwntallica wrote:2) trying to make it so droves of existing models/units we not made unusable.
Once again, what wouldn't be useable? Throw in Dante with a special rule unlocking death company with chapter tactics of black rage. Throw in Ezekiel that makes it so that terminators can take apothecaries and count as scoring. Throw in Hellbrecht which unlocks neophytes and has the chapter tactic of that thing that makes BT charge forward whenever they take casualties.
It would be SO EASY, and you wouldn't even need to exclude anybody's models.
pwntallica wrote:3) trying to cram all the different play styles, rules, units, and characters into one dex and not make it way bigger and more expensive.
True, but it would also be a better value. A single marine 'dex is going to be cheaper than having to get a SM codex AND a BA codex AND a GK codex AND a DA codex, and, and, and...
Plus, you can't even BUY a BT codex anymore. This is just another problem that would be solved.
pwntallica wrote:4) updating that massive codex would take much longer and eat up at least 2-3 normal dex windows anyway.
That would be true if there was only a single codex writer, but there's not. Having one person take longer with their codex in no way slows down anybody else's work on their own codex.
See, the issue is just that: All the different Marine codices are only different in points costs, special rules, and unit upgrades.
So Blood Angels have Assault Marines that can take a plethora of Meltas, or Space Wolves have Devestator Sergeants that allow you to split fire- Make it like Chaos Warbands (I think that's what it was) where taking a certain Special Character makes the army 'Blood Angels' or 'Space Wolves' (or an upgrade for a Chapter Master or Libby or something) and have the Assault Marines and Devestator entries have upgrades that say "If the army is Blood Angels, then _____ can be taken for __ points"
Things like that.
All Marines use the same weapons (aside from silly differences, like Blood Talons and such, but again, simple upgrade) and vehicles.They can use the same Codex.
Or, hey, howsabout you don't even have specific chapters! Just add some options to the vanilla codex, and get rid of the rest of them. If someone wants to play Dark Angels, they can do the same as the folks who play Imperial Fists, and just paint them the right way!
Orks don't have a Codex: Bad Moons, or a Codex: Snakebites, even though those two Clans play much, MUCH different than the standard "Lotsa Boyz, couplea toyz" lists.
Eldar don't have (anymore) a Codex: Ulthuan and a Codex: Alaitoc, though in Fluff, they fight much different.
Tau don't have Codex: Farsight and Codex: Etherials
Chaos doesn't have a different codex for each major God.
Tyranids don't have a seperate codex for every Hive Fleet.
Imperial Guard don't have seperate codices for Catachans and Death Korps and Cadians.
Why should Space Marines have separate codices for separate chapters?
... 
so seriously. It depresses me... 
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i've been playing since the PDF days...anyway i picked Tau, coz i just don't like their playing style or the look of them. one good punch and it looks like they will die, they look so unfit for combat and i just don't like that animeish themed look
