So based on what i read through my codex and a few pages of the big rulebook, in every story about necrons its just one army getting completely wiped out without killing one. So is it me or can the necrons literally not be killed in the story of 40k? cant they just take over the universe?
Yes.
Blow up all the tomb worlds and you're set...
Easier said than done you may say but since the Nercons are all asleep as you really have to do is walk through walls and be really quiet.
Oddly enough that is actuially easier than fighting them...
Defiler37 wrote:So based on what i read through my codex and a few pages of the big rulebook, in every story about necrons its just one army getting completely wiped out without killing one. So is it me or can the necrons literally not be killed in the story of 40k? cant they just take over the universe?
I think you'll find that the codex for every army makes them sound like the most unstoppable force in the universe.
Defiler37 wrote:So based on what i read through my codex and a few pages of the big rulebook, in every story about necrons its just one army getting completely wiped out without killing one. So is it me or can the necrons literally not be killed in the story of 40k? cant they just take over the universe?
I think you'll find that all of the codex for every army makes them sound like the most unstoppable force in the universe.
Touche good sir
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Asherian Command wrote:
Defiler37 wrote:Lol the tomb stalkers would catch ya, being quiet doesn't do much against them.
How about magnets? I have yet to find a sci-fi robot that is not immune to the effects of magnets or a DOS attack.
Hahaha believe me you would NOT want to bring a necron even CLOSER to you with a magnet, and whats a DOS?
Isn't in one of the meq codices marines are so powerful that they send a single marine to make sure a planet is okay. The point is an army's patron codex is inevitably only going to talk about its victories, and maybe if your lucky in xenos codices, you can find one or two losses.
GangstaMuffin24 wrote: I think you'll find that the codex for every army makes them sound like the most unstoppable force in the universe.
That's true, and you have people that only read codex for their race...
But to the point... If Necrons all woke up in the same time... let's just say that there will be a lot of casualties for everybody. But in the end they will lose, because there is no way that Chaos Gods or Tyranids will let them to scour their main sorce of food. And it's a very hard job stooping the Orks or exterminating them - so good luck to dead ones if they ever wake up in mass.
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Defiler37 wrote:And whats a DOS?
You don't know that?
You use Windows OS right? Dos is last version of console Windows, it's very much like the first few black Windows you see when you start your PC. He suggest that we attack the Necrons with Windows OS and that they will just crash because of it
Well in the end the easiest way to kill or the necron race would be to simply blow up all the planets that they are sleeping on...much easir said than done lol First off we dont know all the planets that their on, perhaps even terra?!? duh duh duh!!! And some of the planets that they are on are inhabited already so you blowing it up would be harder to do.
The other reason it is hard to do is b/c in order for you to find what planet they are on youd pretty much have to wake them up! then you risk losing another planet to them. Ya necrons are pretty ba, a very big looming threat that has the potential to do some real damage.
But does anyone know if they can fly through space? I dont think I have ever read about them doing space travel
FDISK will save us all! But i think that all the Necrons waking up at the same time would lead to some interesting allies coming together. And the Orks were designed to fight the Necrons, I think perhaps they might slow them down. Especially if someone _told_ them about what was happening. The fight of their lives and the most fun EVAR!
If they can be stopped depends heavily on what else wakes up beneath their tombs, and how many tombworlds there actually are. As of right now, it would require many times overwhelming their forces on each and every tombworld to take them out, giving the Necrons no further place to Phase Out to. Would this be possible in practice though? Highly unlikely as ech race is to preoccupied with the other ones to give focus to exterminating the Necron threat that one would need to give. Another issue that arises is with the C'tan which can be killed by three things, the Blackstone Fortresses, the Talismans of Vaul, and other C'tan. Chaos has the Fortresses, the Deceiver banished or removed the Talismans, and the C'tan are unlikely to kill eachother at first as they can use the others to achieve power quicker. The only army that really has a shot and killing them, and always sort of has, has been chaos. The C'tan cannot fathom nor use their powers to effect it and so is their largest Achilles heel. While this does not kill off the Necrons themselves, it would remove the C'tan from the equation, who are the ones that prove the most beneficial to the Necrons
Azure wrote:If they can be stopped depends heavily on what else wakes up beneath their tombs, and how many tombworlds there actually are. As of right now, it would require many times overwhelming their forces on each and every tombworld to take them out, giving the Necrons no further place to Phase Out to. Would this be possible in practice though? Highly unlikely as ech race is to preoccupied with the other ones to give focus to exterminating the Necron threat that one would need to give. Another issue that arises is with the C'tan which can be killed by three things, the Blackstone Fortresses, the Talismans of Vaul, and other C'tan. Chaos has the Fortresses, the Deceiver banished or removed the Talismans, and the C'tan are unlikely to kill eachother at first as they can use the others to achieve power quicker. The only army that really has a shot and killing them, and always sort of has, has been chaos. The C'tan cannot fathom nor use their powers to effect it and so is their largest Achilles heel. While this does not kill off the Necrons themselves, it would remove the C'tan from the equation, who are the ones that prove the most beneficial to the Necrons
It's no matter how many tombs world there are... Even if they all awake they would be defeated. Even they cannot stand against all of the galaxy's races. Not to mention Chaos Gods, Imperium special forces and endless tides of Green skins...
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Ascalam wrote:What about EMP shielding? It does exist you know
The really ancient rules had them be able to project an EMP field that shut down other tech. I'd love to see that resurge
Tau have destroyed entire Necron fleet using EMP torpedoes...
The really ancient rules had them be able to project an EMP field that shut down other tech. I'd love to see that resurge
Tau have destroyed entire Necron fleet using EMP torpedoes...
Source. Give us the source of this complete bs. The Tau destroying an entire Necron Fleet with EMP torpedoes? Where in the name of Jesus M.f Christ did you find that?
They already took over the galaxy once and only gave it up voluntarily. There's no reason to think they couldn't do it again, especially now that the opposition is even less competitive.
Fortunately, I have a cunning plan. Listen up.
The plan consists of the following: use a ridiculously large magnet to suck all the 'crons into a single place then detonate some vortex weaponry, thus destroying the necrons in their entirety. It MIGHT work.
Alternatively, we could just recycle the tin men to make lots of sentient bean cans.
Takes saving the planet to a whole new level!
The full return of the Necrons would be the end of Warhammer 40K.
They are a race that waged a War against the Old Ones and only were stopped when the Enslaver Plague stole all their victims.
Considering the length of the Webways and technology behind them being so high end it stumped the Emperor... It is very unlikely anything in the galaxy would stand a chance in hell.
Orkz were beaten down to small colonies when the Eldar were at full might, so we can count them out.
Nids try to avoid large numbers of Crons due to lack of Biomass, so we can rule that out too...
Chaos would try, but the Crons aren't going to succumb to Chaos and the Crons would eventually seal off the Warp.
As it stands right now, Necrons are shown as a slumbering force of unknown power that were set to be the original winners of Warhammer, until some critters from the Warp beat their enemies before they could.
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Praxiss wrote:I would think Exterminatus would do the job.
Talking about a race that has ships equipped with guns that can fire with the power of a star.
By Necron standards, an Exterminatus is primitive and a futile attempt at stopping them.
Edit: I hate Necrons with a passion and don't want to diss on other cool races, but given the fluff on them, it is hard to believe anything could stand against the full might of them. They are an Empire millions upon millions of years older than the Emperor, the Orkz and perhaps even Chaos. They didn't get that way by being scrubs.
Ehhh i dont think crons are as powerful as some of the fluff makes them out to be. There are some accounts of necron ships being destroyed by eldar ships and what not. Personally i think if the crons did come back in full force that the eldar would be the saving grace since they do know alot about them and how to defeat them. However it would bring every eldar possible into the fight and i think at the end of it both the crons and eldar would basically be extinct.
If the Deceiver succeeds in uniting the remaining C'tan once more as he has been trying to, sending ships to Mars for example, after infiltrating the Imperium to discover the Void Dragon. Then the universe is in trouble again. C'tan are hungry and the Necrons chefs are eager to serve them their long overdue meal.
You use Windows OS right? Dos is last version of console Windows, it's very much like the first few black Windows you see when you start your PC.
He suggest that we attack the Necrons with Windows OS and that they will just crash because of it
They already took over the galaxy once and only gave it up voluntarily. There's no reason to think they couldn't do it again, especially now that the opposition is even less competitive.
This pretty much sums it up.
The Humans, the Eldar and even the Orkz are all believed to have been bio-weapons created by the Old Ones in a desperate attempt to stop the Necrons at one point.
I'd say that the Necrons could be stopped, but only if they were stopped before they all woke, and only if every tomb world had been found. No-one knows how many there were. and if one is wiped the inhabitants would teleport to the next nearest for repairs.
You use Windows OS right? Dos is last version of console Windows, it's very much like the first few black Windows you see when you start your PC.
He suggest that we attack the Necrons with Windows OS and that they will just crash because of it
BeefCakeSoup wrote:
Edit: I hate Necrons with a passion and don't want to diss on other cool races, but given the fluff on them, it is hard to believe anything could stand against the full might of them. They are an Empire millions upon millions of years older than the Emperor, the Orkz and perhaps even Chaos. They didn't get that way by being scrubs.
As I said...even if they ever get up in full force - they would lose.
Races of the galaxy would unite against them and they would suffer defeat ( they where already losing war when Enslavers started to exterminate Old Ones ).
Orks where not in this number when they where around, neither was the Imperium, neither Tyranids or Tau or Chaos Gods. Only Eldar, and today Eldar are even more deadlier per warrior than back then...
You haven't read Night Bringer by Graham McNeil have you?
I own it and have read it. The Nightbringer and some Necron Warriors easily wipe out some Dark Eldar, a politican, and most of Uriel's leftover squad and Inquisitor. Then when facing off against Uriel he backs down sensing the threat of a meltabomb. Then he goes to feed, leaving a dead pile. It's been a while though.
If Uriel did activate the meltabomb, he'd die, and shatter the necrodermis (which would blow up and kill him) then the Nightbringer would go get another suit of armour, take up his trusty lance and eat a sun, then thrust it into whatevers left of Uriel's squad (which I think it was a marine with one arm).
He'd break the necrodermis of one C'tan...who'd just get another necrodermis shell and return to kill him and the rest of his friends
You haven't read Night Bringer by Graham McNeil have you?
I have
I remember Uriel being punted around by the Nightbringer, and his friends (and some dark eldar who were chilling down there in the tomb) dying rather nastily.
He stuck the meltabomb to the device the nightbringer was using to call his ship to him IIRC, not the Nightbringer himself, and i think the author hadn't quite got the final fluff update that Ctan can phase thru anything, so can't be buried He also seems to have missed the fact that any attack made by a Ctan ignores all saves and drains your life..
As the device was made of necrodermis it would also have been extremely resistant to melta effects (which for those who claim melta bombs aren't melta includes meltabombs, as they were considered point blank meltagun hits back then ).
So? Uriel with meltabomb in hand vs actual nightbringer, after his morning coffee, and with a fluff writer who has been brought up to speed? Not a hope
You haven't read Night Bringer by Graham McNeil have you?
I own it and have read it. The Nightbringer and some Necron Warriors easily wipe out some Dark Eldar, a politican, and most of Uriel's leftover squad and Inquisitor. Then when facing off against Uriel he backs down sensing the threat of a meltabomb. Then he goes to feed, leaving a dead pile. It's been a while though.
If Uriel did activate the meltabomb, he'd die, and shatter the necrodermis (which would blow up and kill him) then the Nightbringer would go get another suit of armour, take up his trusty lance and eat a sun, then thrust it into whatevers left of Uriel's squad (which I think it was a marine with one arm).
Nope...
The reason Uriel forces the Night bringer to back off is because if he did activate the melta charges (he didn't have the bomb on his the mine was rigged) the Night Bringer would be trapped and would eventually die...
For this reason Captain Ventris is pretty faily since a few marines to kill a god would be an easy trade.
There was no emperor-level plot armour on their trapping him by collapsing the mine. He would ahve been able to walk through the rock like air until he hit surface.
He was under Pavonis since the war vs the Old Ones. He put himself down in stasis there.
Like i say the book and the Ctan's actual abilities as listed in their codex don't jive. The fluff in the codex is slightly newer than that story, and going by the description in the codex of a Ctan's abilities he would not have been able to be trapped there anyway.
Ctan can walk through solid objects at will, and ignore gravity. How is a big pile of rock going to slow one down?
purplefood wrote:How do you think he was stuck their in the first place?
Ascalam wrote:That was his bedroom
He was under Pavonis since the war vs the Old Ones. He put himself down in stasis there.
Like i say the book and the Ctan's actual abilities as listed in their codex don't jive. The fluff in the codex is slightly newer than that story, and going by the description in the codex of a Ctan's abilities he would not have been able to be trapped there anyway.
Ctan can walk through solid objects at will, and ignore gravity. How is a big pile of rock going to slow one down?
This. If a god has a purpose built tomb underground, which it has used to sleep until new life has formed for it to feast on. I think it can escape a poorly planned booby trap on that very site.
It was built with the intention of keeping out some of the most powerful beings in th galaxy.
Most probably including his own kind, it's more than likely he wouldn't have been able to simply walk out especially since his own powers and strength was so wasted during the time he spent asleep.
At any rate it isn't important since he got out and is now all powered up.
BeefCakeSoup wrote:
Edit: I hate Necrons with a passion and don't want to diss on other cool races, but given the fluff on them, it is hard to believe anything could stand against the full might of them. They are an Empire millions upon millions of years older than the Emperor, the Orkz and perhaps even Chaos. They didn't get that way by being scrubs.
As I said...even if they ever get up in full force - they would lose.
Races of the galaxy would unite against them and they would suffer defeat ( they where already losing war when Enslavers started to exterminate Old Ones ).
Orks where not in this number when they where around, neither was the Imperium, neither Tyranids or Tau or Chaos Gods. Only Eldar, and today Eldar are even more deadlier per warrior than back then...
The Necrons were on the verge of defeating the Old Ones when the Enslaver Plague wiped out most of the souls in the remaining Old One's Empire.
The Necrons wouldn't be stopped dude.
Imperial Ships don't even have an equal vessel for "known" high end Necron fleet ships. Let alone unknown ships.... Of which there could be millions or tens of millions.
In small conflicts yeah, Galaxy has a chance. Full blown return? Game Rucking Over.
BeefCakeSoup wrote:
Edit: I hate Necrons with a passion and don't want to diss on other cool races, but given the fluff on them, it is hard to believe anything could stand against the full might of them. They are an Empire millions upon millions of years older than the Emperor, the Orkz and perhaps even Chaos. They didn't get that way by being scrubs.
As I said...even if they ever get up in full force - they would lose.
Races of the galaxy would unite against them and they would suffer defeat ( they where already losing war when Enslavers started to exterminate Old Ones ).
Orks where not in this number when they where around, neither was the Imperium, neither Tyranids or Tau or Chaos Gods. Only Eldar, and today Eldar are even more deadlier per warrior than back then...
Actually the C'tan were crushing the old ones so bad that they started to eat themselves they got so bored. All the chaos the races the old ones made in the warp (litteraly the birth of chaos as we know it is a by product of this war) gave birth to the enslavers. Since the C'tan were winning so hard and eating everything in the galaxy (including eachother) when the enslavers started to Nom Nom all life the C'tan just pulled the "wait we are gods" card and go to sleep untill sutable populations of life returned to the galaxy. The C'tan won the war for the galaxy once, it wasnt pretty, then the enslavers took all there food away.
purplefood wrote:How do you think he was stuck their in the first place?
He put himself there in stasis. Being hit with a melta bomb after being asleep for millions of year didnt sound like a good idea to old nightbringer so of course he backed off. it probably would have damaged him the the point of leaving his necrodermius shell. I dont think the tomb would have trapped him.
Reading what we know of engagments with the necrons in both space and groundside battles... they kill everything. Even when there is a win against the necrons its at a huge cost or against a tomb world thats just waking up. On damnos the necrons were just waking up and the 2nd company of ultrasmurffs were almost wiped off the planet. If all the necrons were to wake up and the C'tan were to get there together and start there red harvest again... it wouldnt matter if the whole imperium stood united, these guys pucked the OLD ONES! there would be no hope for humanity.
But I do have a theory that if all humanity had joined with chaos then the forces of the warp might be able to stop the necrons. Warp hurts the C'tan and just baffles the necron. Besides pariahs necrons dont really have anything to defend them against the many dangers of warp.
Maybe Logor and Horus were right, maybe the only way to save humanity from the threat of things like necrons, and tyranids (the only real threats to humanity besides chaos) was to jump on the wagon with the chaos gods. Now because of you stupid loyalists and your goody two shoes imperial dogma... humanity is going to get enslaved by C'tan and eaten by bugs... GREAT just GREAT! lol
Necronsc can not win....Well actually in 40k nobody can really win or if they win (well heavy heavy loses for them then). If necrons would have risen and begin to kick ass. The Chaos Gods and their servants; and Eldars would have stopped them or given them mass losses. Then you got the orks that hate little metal hummies! Tyranids, who hate and fear them beacuse the necs are stealing their food (liveing). Eldar might ask the imperium to help them and the Imperium might agree since the Imperium knows little about th necs and what they know scares the crap out of them. Finally you have the Tau, that has enough common sence to ask the Imperium for a tiny alliance. There for you got Tau, Imperum, and Eldar sort of helping each other. Eldars can also screw the mindes of the orks an attract them to h nec forces. So Necs have no chance of really winning. If they still do, losses would be great enough for them to still loose
The Imperium has worked with the Eldar before, but is a paranoid bunch of xenocidal loonies. The alliance would break down sooner or later regardless of the threat. Otherwise you'd always see eldar and Imperial forces fighting together vs Chaos The imperium tends to also have the 'we're the Imperium, how could we lose?' attitude that ,despite several hundred ass-kickings, tends to lead them to wiping out potential allies instead of recruiting them.
Orks can be conned/lured into a good fight, but are as apt to attacking the people who hired them after the Crons phase out in any given fight just to keep the fight going. Orks don't hate Necrons. They don't hate anyone. They don't consider them a good fight though because they keep wimpin' out and vanishin' before da fights done :(
Necron ships can also travel far faster than ork waagh fleets, and actually care about the direction they travel in
The tau are not exactly known for having much sense when it comes to their allies. All it would take would be one rabidly imperial Inquisitor saying the wrong thing and that one's a gonner.
The Nids actively avoid Necron Tombworlds. There's no profit in attacking them (no biomass to replace losses) and the Hive Mind doesn't seem to be the emotional type, just hungry in an implacable way It's not established that Nids even feel emotion when hooked up to the hivemind.
I'm not saying it couldn't work, just that it's highly unlikely to last long enough to make a difference.
That's the ultimate crapsackiness of the 40k universe: if they could cobble together some simple alliances, they could effect major changes. But simple alliances can't be brokered.
As the most triumphant example, there are factions within the Imperium at open war with each other (re: Space Marines vs Inquisition, Ecclesiarchy vs Mars, etc).
darkcloud92 wrote:Well in the end the easiest way to kill or the necron race would be to simply blow up all the planets that they are sleeping on...much easir said than done lol First off we dont know all the planets that their on, perhaps even terra?!? duh duh duh!!! And some of the planets that they are on are inhabited already so you blowing it up would be harder to do.
The other reason it is hard to do is b/c in order for you to find what planet they are on youd pretty much have to wake them up! then you risk losing another planet to them. Ya necrons are pretty ba, a very big looming threat that has the potential to do some real damage.
But does anyone know if they can fly through space? I dont think I have ever read about them doing space travel
You should check out battle fleet gothic.
And yes, necrons have proven to have some of the deadliest space ships (from what I've heard).
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Ascalam wrote:That was his bedroom
He was under Pavonis since the war vs the Old Ones. He put himself down in stasis there.
Like i say the book and the Ctan's actual abilities as listed in their codex don't jive. The fluff in the codex is slightly newer than that story, and going by the description in the codex of a Ctan's abilities he would not have been able to be trapped there anyway.
Ctan can walk through solid objects at will, and ignore gravity. How is a big pile of rock going to slow one down?
Only 6-12" at a time and they can't "Stop inside" something...
iproxtaco wrote:
Source. Give us the source of this complete bs. The Tau destroying an entire Necron Fleet with EMP torpedoes? Where in the name of Jesus M.f Christ did you find that?
Sorry for responding so late...I was trying to find that fluff and I didn't found it. I remember it being on Lexicanum, in Tau fleet sheet. Now I can't find it, but I know the script very well.
According to that, one part of the Tau fleet was on some of their outer colonies - paroling. When they notice several Necron ships closing in on them. As I remember, they use some kind of new EMP torpedoes - only developed recently ( probably the first year of 42'nd millennium ). The torpedoes stall the Necron ships, they where practically dead in space. And the Tau fleet then just attacked and destroy all of Necron ships.
It's not entirely impossible Tau have advance technology, or maybe this was some fan-boy fantasy. Or maybe it's leak story for the next Tau codex, I really don't know - except that I read it on Lexicanum.
Sounds like Fan-boy fantasy to me, but then I don't play BFG. I'd love to, but have only so much money and time
You'd think that Necrons would shield against EMP attacks, being robots, but EMP grenades work on Liths too, so who knows
Looking forward to the new Tau codex when it comes, even though i don't play tau any more, just to see how far they've advances the Tau tech-base to allow for new toys
Ascalam wrote:Maybe, Maybe not.
The Imperium has worked with the Eldar before, but is a paranoid bunch of xenocidal loonies. The alliance would break down sooner or later regardless of the threat. Otherwise you'd always see eldar and Imperial forces fighting together vs Chaos The imperium tends to also have the 'we're the Imperium, how could we lose?' attitude that ,despite several hundred ass-kickings, tends to lead them to wiping out potential allies instead of recruiting them.
Orks can be conned/lured into a good fight, but are as apt to attacking the people who hired them after the Crons phase out in any given fight just to keep the fight going. Orks don't hate Necrons. They don't hate anyone. They don't consider them a good fight though because they keep wimpin' out and vanishin' before da fights done :(
Necron ships can also travel far faster than ork waagh fleets, and actually care about the direction they travel in The tau are not exactly known for having much sense when it comes to their allies. All it would take would be one rabidly imperial Inquisitor saying the wrong thing and that one's a gonner.
The Nids actively avoid Necron Tombworlds. There's no profit in attacking them (no biomass to replace losses) and the Hive Mind doesn't seem to be the emotional type, just hungry in an implacable way It's not established that Nids even feel emotion when hooked up to the hivemind.
I'm not saying it couldn't work, just that it's highly unlikely to last long enough to make a difference.
Wow well if everything goes sooo bad then yes we are doomed, yes. You are so negative. The alliance would last (it wouldn't last after the great war against the Necrons. I agree but still) Even if the Imperium would be rude and be all against the Eldar. The Eldar are smart and know when its time to get emotional and not to. Believe me after the Necs would massacre some of the worlds that belong to the Imeprium and Tau.......I think they will be fighting for their lives to defeat them. Even if you are close minded and you hate xenos or humans. You must understand that you are about to get by the dead!
Chaos isn’t also that stupid even though its evil. It would not have united of course with them but most of the servants of Chaos will stay away from the allies and wipe out the necs from the other side.
I already explained why the Tyranids would have also attacked the necs......Though you didnt see me reason. Beacuse the Necs are wipeing out the main source of food for the tyranids. The Tyranids must fight them to put them back to sleep so they will be able to feast on the living themselves.
Orks....I agree technology isn’t great and are not smart but Eldar will fined a way how to send them at the Necrons.....Some how. I understand this alliance or diplomatic deals wouldn’t last long but they will certainly last until the Necs will not be crippled or pushed back.
1/ give them a paradox something like 'if the deceiver always deceives, how can you be sure he exists as he would be deceiving you if he said he existed'
Ascalam wrote:Maybe, Maybe not.
The Imperium has worked with the Eldar before, but is a paranoid bunch of xenocidal loonies. The alliance would break down sooner or later regardless of the threat. Otherwise you'd always see eldar and Imperial forces fighting together vs Chaos The imperium tends to also have the 'we're the Imperium, how could we lose?' attitude that ,despite several hundred ass-kickings, tends to lead them to wiping out potential allies instead of recruiting them.
Orks can be conned/lured into a good fight, but are as apt to attacking the people who hired them after the Crons phase out in any given fight just to keep the fight going. Orks don't hate Necrons. They don't hate anyone. They don't consider them a good fight though because they keep wimpin' out and vanishin' before da fights done :(
Necron ships can also travel far faster than ork waagh fleets, and actually care about the direction they travel in The tau are not exactly known for having much sense when it comes to their allies. All it would take would be one rabidly imperial Inquisitor saying the wrong thing and that one's a gonner.
The Nids actively avoid Necron Tombworlds. There's no profit in attacking them (no biomass to replace losses) and the Hive Mind doesn't seem to be the emotional type, just hungry in an implacable way It's not established that Nids even feel emotion when hooked up to the hivemind.
I'm not saying it couldn't work, just that it's highly unlikely to last long enough to make a difference.
Wow well if everything goes sooo bad then yes we are doomed, yes. You are so negative. The alliance would last (it wouldn't last after the great war against the Necrons. I agree but still) Even if the Imperium would be rude and be all against the Eldar. The Eldar are smart and know when its time to get emotional and not to. Believe me after the Necs would massacre some of the worlds that belong to the Imeprium and Tau.......I think they will be fighting for their lives to defeat them. Even if you are close minded and you hate xenos or humans. You must understand that you are about to get by the dead!
Chaos isn’t also that stupid even though its evil. It would not have united of course with them but most of the servants of Chaos will stay away from the allies and wipe out the necs from the other side.
I already explained why the Tyranids would have also attacked the necs......Though you didnt see me reason. Beacuse the Necs are wipeing out the main source of food for the tyranids. The Tyranids must fight them to put them back to sleep so they will be able to feast on the living themselves.
Orks....I agree technology isn’t great and are not smart but Eldar will fined a way how to send them at the Necrons.....Some how. I understand this alliance or diplomatic deals wouldn’t last long but they will certainly last until the Necs will not be crippled or pushed back.
Not negative, realistic
The imperium can't even work with all it's own elements and takes centuries to millenia to make decisions even on urgent matters. What on eath makes you think they could manage a masterpiece of diplomacy like this? Theyhave been at war with, and commited horrible acts on, every race in the 'alliance' and havn't changed their attitude any since.
The imperium has a proven habit of wiping races out unless they prove strong enough to resist. The other races are unlikely to trust the IOM an inch due to this, as it would certainly capitalize on an ally's weakness to remove it after the threat had passed.
The Tau might be naive enough to ally with the IOM on this, and given how these alliances tend to end they'd probably get wiped by the IOM as soon as the war was done.
The Eldar don't really need the alliance. They can move around, and are fairly adept at hiding. Even if they did ally with the IOM they would expect to be in command of the alliance, which the IOM would never allow. The IOM would want to be in command of the Alliance entirely, and would not allow joint command out of paranioa and pride.
The Orks would find killing the humans and Eldar a much more satisfying fight with better loot. Even of you did recruit them somehow they would fall to infighting as they always do, regardless of the greater plan.
I did dee your reason on the tyranids. I just don't think it valid. There have been documented proofs of hive fleets just going around Necron space. Attacking the necrons loses them biomass with no return, as even their own dead bodies are gauss-stripped to nothing. The nids would be far more likely to attack the gathering Alliance areas, and then move on when they were wiped out. The Nids don't mind travelling intergalactically when they've eaten a galaxy down, but cant afford the massive loss of unretrievable biomass that taking on the necrons exculsively would represent. It would make the hive fleets dangerously vulnerable if they survived against the huge powerful alliance of races that you propose would form. If the hivemind is smart enough to recognise the Necrons as a threat to the biomass it would also recognise that if it got to the tasty smorgasbord first they would be well stocked with biomass and could then move on, leaving the necrons to the dead worlds of the galaxy.
I think that an alliance hammer between IOM,Tau, Eldar and Orks, with the Nids as the anvil is highly implausable. This isn't Babylon 5 after all
I think that an alliance hammer between IOM,Tau, Eldar and Orks, with the Nids as the anvil is highly implausable. This isn't Babylon 5 after all
I understand what you mean but I think the Eldar would know how to adept to the ways of the humans for a year or two just to prevent the rise of their old foes.
About the orks I didnt really say of an alliance, I ment eldar trickery. Like if a Farseer goes ino one of the warbosses head and tells him about the fun fights he will have with the Necs. I still think that if the alliance wouldnt have worked in the beginning it would begin to improve in the end when Necs will begin to destroy everything.
They have allied with the IOM before, usually against chaos (especially slannesh) but always on their own terms.
One short story in Epic, for example, had an eldar force show up and engage a chaos titan group, which incidentally saved the heavily outnumbered IOM titans that were fighting them and losing.
When asked why they helped the humans out they replied that they hadn't helped them. They had attacked the same enemy, but that didn't make them in any way allies.
They would more likely demand that the Imperium adapt to their ways and leadership, which they consider far superior. The Slaaneshi are far more the dire foes of the eldar than the necrons, and they've not allied in this fashion to wipe Slaanesh out.
You could trick the orks into attacking the Necrons easily enough. Getting them to stay focused on that instead of killing each other, or anyone else, is far harder
Another thought. The necrons aren't stupid either. They could pretend to sleep again so that the alliance would fall apart, or the Deciever could infiltrate it and break it from within Who knows
I personally think it thoroughly unlikely that the alliance would work, but feel free to think otherwise
darkcloud92 wrote:
But does anyone know if they can fly through space? I dont think I have ever read about them doing space travel
Necron ships are by far the most powerful in the entire galaxy. They could RAPE Blackstone fortresses. Have you heard of the necron world-ship? Good, your mind has not yet been blown to pieces.
Sure. Attack their bases of operations and shatter their industrial capacity (in this case, their ability to repair) and they can be beaten like any other.
It's just really fething hard to do in their case.
Ascalam i think you are exagerating the political machinations in the IoM.
There is infighting but it only happens when the fighting has ended or there is a period of relative peace.
If the IoM had to work with the Eldar they would, they wouldn't like it but they would.
And it doesn't take canturies to milenia to decide on things.
It might take a decade or so if the situation took a while to get back to the High Lords but certainly not centuries.
On the topic of the alliance, a battle-length alliance would be plausible (except Nids), but a campaign-length alliance? No, not at all. The Tau would want humans to follow the greater good, Humans would want Eldar to worship the God-Emperor, and the Eldar would try to convince the Tau to switch path multiple times during their lives which would end disastrously because of the castes.
Plus, all you really need to do to defeat Necrons is destroy their monoliths and/or BoO (Base of Operations), then they can't regenerate/repair, and become wholly out-classed by most other races.
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purplefood wrote:Ascalam i think you are exagerating the political machinations in the IoM.
There is infighting but it only happens when the fighting has ended or there is a period of relative peace.
If the IoM had to work with the Eldar they would, they wouldn't like it but they would.
And it doesn't take canturies to milenia to decide on things.
It might take a decade or so if the situation took a while to get back to the High Lords but certainly not centuries.
So when Rynns World (The homeworld of the Crimson Fists) was invaded by Orks and the Crimson Fists sent out a message for help it took them centuries to respond?
It didn't by the way, that was a rhetorical question.
It took them a few months and most of that time was spent gathering forces rather than actually deciding to do something.
Ascalam wrote:Sounds like Fan-boy fantasy to me, but then I don't play BFG. I'd love to, but have only so much money and time
You'd think that Necrons would shield against EMP attacks, being robots, but EMP grenades work on Liths too, so who knows
Looking forward to the new Tau codex when it comes, even though i don't play tau any more, just to see how far they've advances the Tau tech-base to allow for new toys
The tech-base of the Tau will undoubtedly be as advanced the Necrons in the next dex. Also, their warp travel will probably be on-par with the IoM...
The IOM is never in a position of relative peace. They are eternally at war with someone, they just change the warzones around now and again.
They also would never allow Eldar leadership for an entire genocidal war that might take centuries, and the eldar would feel much the same.
Pg 102 main rulebook-
'pleas for help of clarification may not be acted on for centuries' - Yes they do.
Orders issued by the high lords tend to filter down as an elaborate version of chinese whispers. The orders received at the other end of the chain bear little relation to the original orders.
'indeed, it is not uncommon for fleets and armies to arrive at a war zone to discover that the conflict they were dispatched to wage has long since been concluded'
Given that the adeptus terra is made up of an unknown number of departments that centralized rule or accurate census are impossible i don't see decisions being made terribly quickly. That's before the Inquisition sticks its oar in.
Also to form this alliance they would have to suddenly stop fighting and withdraw in all active warzones that didn't involve the nids or Crons and say sorry, which is heresy
I imagine that this woudn't be popular with some fighting forces, such as certain Astartes chapters or guard regiments that would likely request clarification or simply refuse. These clarifications would have to then be recieved, filter through the beauracracy and then be sent out again. This could take addition years to centuries.
It's just not practical, with the missions of regiments out there, all the chapters and the other imperial forces.
purplefood wrote:So when Rynns World (The homeworld of the Crimson Fists) was invaded by Orks and the Crimson Fists sent out a message for help it took them centuries to respond?
It didn't by the way, that was a rhetorical question.
It took them a few months and most of that time was spent gathering forces rather than actually deciding to do something.
That was just rallying reinforcements, this would have to be debated by the highest authority and would have to go through the administration of the IoM. Not a speedy process by any stretch of the imagination.
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Ascalam wrote:The IOM is never in a position of relative peace. They are eternally at war with someone, they just change the warzones around now and again.
They also would never allow Eldar leadership for an entire genocidal war that might take centuries, and the eldar would feel much the same.
Pg 102 main rulebook-
'pleas for help of clarification may not be acted on for centuries' - Yes they do.
Orders issued by the high lords tend to filter down as an elaborate version of chinese whispers. The orders received at the other end of the chain bear little relation to the original orders.
'indeed, it is not uncommon for fleets and armies to arrive at a war zone to discover that the conflict they were dispatched to wage has long since been concluded'
Given that the adeptus terra is made up of an unknown number of departments that centralized rule or accurate census are impossible i don't see decisions being made terribly quickly. That's before the Inquisition sticks its oar in.
Also to form this alliance they would have to suddenly stop fighting and withdraw in all active warzones that didn't involve the nids or Crons and say sorry, which is heresy
I imagine that this woudn't be popular with some fighting forces, such as certain Astartes chapters or guard regiments that would likely request clarification or simply refuse. These clarifications would have to then be recieved, filter through the beauracracy and then be sent out again. This could take addition years to centuries.
It's just not practical, with the missions of regiments out there, all the chapters and the other imperial forces.
purplefood wrote:So when Rynns World (The homeworld of the Crimson Fists) was invaded by Orks and the Crimson Fists sent out a message for help it took them centuries to respond?
It didn't by the way, that was a rhetorical question.
It took them a few months and most of that time was spent gathering forces rather than actually deciding to do something.
That was just rallying reinforcements, this would have to be debated by the highest authority and would have to go through the administration of the IoM. Not a speedy process by any stretch of the imagination.
Not likely.
It would have been up to the sector governor and after him whoever was in charge of the segmentum.
It also should have been a relatively easy descision the Waagh had been halted at Rynns World but they couldn't defeat it entirely that would have been the best time to strike.
Ascalam wrote:To use your own example of rynn's world.
If the Crimson Fists were ordered to stop fighting the orks, immediately,would they do it?
No. But then again the Crimson Fists are an independent faction in the Imperium.
Also i doubt any IG regiment or SoB covenant would simply allow the Orks to slaughter them, if they were ordered to retreat maybe.
The SM independence is more of a technicality. They need the IoM and the IoM kinda needs them. Much like the relationship within all the organisations of the Imperium.
My point stands then, as you'd need to stop all the astartes from beating on the aliens you were trying to ally with
If the imperium can't unite themselves they have no hope of a multi-race long term alliance. If they have independent factions that can ignore the orders of Holy Terra at will they will never unite.
Yes, especially when they ally with the Space Marines.... *duck*
No one knows the extent of the Necron Tomb World problem and they have technology far superior to most of the other races. Whose to say what will happen once they all 'wake up'.
We'll never know of course as there is no future history post- 41k
Ascalam wrote:My point stands then, as you'd need to stop all the astartes from beating on the aliens you were trying to ally with
If the imperium can't unite themselves they have no hope of a multi-race long term alliance. If they have independent factions that can ignore the orders of Holy Terra at will they will never unite.
They can't though. I mean they can technically but there are a great many fall backs and restraints on what many factions can or cannot do. The Imperium could manage it, especially since an alliance such as this probably wouldn't be common knowledge. It would be for the High Lords maybe the Warmaster in charge of taking out the Necrons and a few select Inquisitor Lords. At any rate it's moot point. When the Necrons wake up entirely it'll likely be the end of the galaxy all over again except maybe this time they'll die...
They'd never fall for it... Though if you were desperate enough you could plunge an entire system into the warp to kill a Necron fleet. Or, you could detonate a warp core in the middle of their fleet... it sounds like a Star Trek plan but the Dominus Astra did for an entire Tyranid fleet that way so for Necrons and their weakness to the warp it'll do for them.
I'm sure Eldar weapons like the D-cannon and Wraith cannon (ie weapons that send the target into the wrap) will "kill" a necron for good,the problem is not many races have such weapons and squads of Wraith guard would take along time blasting every last nercon in the galaxy.
They are well aware that the warp is antithesis to the Ctan, and the Ctan are pretty intelligent, so you'd need one hell of a trick
Who knows The regular necrons might well function just fine in the warp. As far as i know it's never been tested.
They have no psychic signiature, so they wouldn't put out a beacon in the warp to locate them with.
They are made from metal, rather than flesh, and are self repairing. The warp will eventually warp metal, but with their self repair mechanisms the warping might be countered, or it might not.
Why would the Daemons attack them? The Necrons would not generate fear, have no souls which might be captured, and in all likelihood would Phase back to their Tombworld when killed anyhow. The Necrons, on the other hand, would suffer a similar uselessness as they can receive nothing from the Daemons and no matter how many they killed, the Daemonic threat would never dwindle as they to are immortal. It would be immortal vs. immortal, logic vs. emotion, science vs. magic: and there would be no victor
If they are in the warp, how do they fase out?, And they are invaders, so they would probably attack them. In the material world, your logic makes sense.
Seeing as no one knows the depths of Necron technology I would assume Phase out to be possible, as the C'tan knew enough of the warp to know how to seal it off. It is pure speculation, but they knew enough about it to seal it off entirely, something that I believe no one has yet been able to replicate. Though continuing with this train of logic, I imagine that the C'tan know more about the warp then nearly anything else that is still alive, they would need to as it is the sole bane left in the universe to them
Since they've never covered what woulf happen to a necron is put in the warp we don't know if they could survive there or whether they could teleport out of it.
Until we get a fluff-filled Necron Compendium it's one of those unsolveable arguments due to lack of data.
They started off as Chaos Androids built by evil squats in the fluff, after all, before they got re-imaged as the Necrons
purplefood wrote:Nah the warp would dissolve them like they were placed in acid.
It's that kind of opposite as opposed to 'they just don't like it all that much'
No, Necrons are more like psychic pariahs, they are resistant to the warp. The only weakness there is that in the warp they wouldn't be able to re-form, unless they brought their monoliths with them.
Necrons FTW.
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Azure wrote:Why would the Daemons attack them? The Necrons would not generate fear, have no souls which might be captured, and in all likelihood would Phase back to their Tombworld when killed anyhow. The Necrons, on the other hand, would suffer a similar uselessness as they can receive nothing from the Daemons and no matter how many they killed, the Daemonic threat would never dwindle as they to are immortal. It would be immortal vs. immortal, logic vs. emotion, science vs. magic: and there would be no victor
Because the necrontyr tried, and almost succeeded, at destroying the warp.
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Ascalam wrote:Since they've never covered what woulf happen to a necron is put in the warp we don't know if they could survive there or whether they could teleport out of it.
Until we get a fluff-filled Necron Compendium it's one of those unsolveable arguments due to lack of data.
They started off as Chaos Androids built by evil squats in the fluff, after all, before they got re-imaged as the Necrons
I actually created an M.20 army of the Men of Iron (remember that old fluff?) out of necrons awhile ago. Just bulked them up with GS and now they look beastly. A bit like Marvel Comic's Iron Monger.
Mr Nobody wrote:Orks find them boring, Tyranids find them indigestible, so the two largest forces won't confront them enough.
Um...actually the IoM is the biggest faction...although it says the orks could overwhelm all else if they united, the IoM is HARDLY centralized, if they united together instead of committing heresy and worshiping chaos, humanity would have quashed all Xenos.
I can't speak for the Tyranids, simply because we don't know their full strength, though their fleets within the Milky Way could also be steamrolled by the IoM, BECAUSE THEY WERE.
Unrelated, I am wondering what would happen if the Imperium had successfully retrieved the untainted plans for the castigator titans...they would never lose titan fights, ever. I am trying to think of what this would mean for the IoM as a whole.
im2randomghgh wrote:I can't speak for the Tyranids, simply because we don't know their full strength, though their fleets within the Milky Way could also be steamrolled by the IoM, BECAUSE THEY WERE.
Unrelated, I am wondering what would happen if the Imperium had successfully retrieved the untainted plans for the castigator titans...they would never lose titan fights, ever. I am trying to think of what this would mean for the IoM as a whole.
First off, the tyranid fleets were just the very tip of the edge of the true size, cause if you look at all the tyranid maps in any codex you find them, only the very tips are in the Milky Way and not the main fleets.
As for the castigator titans, do you mean the one from the GK omnibus stories? And they would still lose titan fights, ever heard of a tyranid bio-titan?
IMO, at the very end of the univerise there will be three races, Necrons (they will find more tomb worlds or just use the lifeless rocks left by nids), Nids, and Chaos (Im including CSM and Daemons).
Cron have tomb worlds anywhere they want and I havent heard of nids eating a tomb world.
Tyranids will devour orks and man, also eldar and tau. But not Chaos (I dont think im spelling very well today)
Choas will have the Eye, im pretty sure the Hive Mind can't take on the 4 Chaos Gods and Crons dont want the eye ne ways.
Realistically little plastic models of Robots can't take over the universe. Actually I don't think any plastic model in the GW range can take over even a forbidden town in the State of New Mexico.
Guys, guys...it's easy to defeat Necrons. In SS we say that you only need to destroy their power source and their entire army shut's down. Maybe this is some insight in new Necron codex? GW knows hos strong they are and in next codex will surly balalnce them toward other races, and make TAu or DE a little stronger...
As for the fleet...their fleet is to small to stand against any other fleet. In BFG you can defeat Necrons, but only in 3 to 1 ration - and if you like to take heavy losses... I why do you all talking about Necrons owning the day? Necrons could own everybody individually, but they cannot stand against entire galaxy... And good example for that is IoM who is the strongest faction ( still ), but lack the power to defeat all enemies - simply because there are lot of them...
SCYTHE9 wrote:Assuming that they are immune to it and able to repair, they still would be constantly attacked by deamons, who by their very nature, are immortal.
Not just deamons. The Servants of Chaos (Marines and traitor humans) would appear in large numbers crushing them.
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necrons aren't stupid either. They could pretend to sleep again so that the alliance would fall apart, or the Deciever could infiltrate it and break it from within Who knows I personally think it thoroughly unlikely that the alliance would work, but feel free to think otherwise As i said on the alliance front :
Maybe, maybe not.
You have many good points why the alliance wouldnt work so I except the fact "maybe or maybe not" though my bets are on maybe.
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Ascalam wrote:My point stands then, as you'd need to stop all the astartes from beating on the aliens you were trying to ally with If the imperium can't unite themselves they have no hope of a multi-race long term alliance. If they have independent factions that can ignore the orders of Holy Terra at will they will never unite.
As long as the council of Terra orders the Space Marines, Sisters of Battle, and Imperial Guards to stop all other attacks they will stop. Or then they will be granted as renegades and all the loyal legions will then stop and except their orders.
im2randomghgh wrote:C'tan devour souls, not flesh...
I'm pretty sure this isn't true. Souls are a mirror of a person in the Warp, so the C'tan wouldn't be able to use it and they'd struggle to get it in the first place. My assumption was that they 'devour' energy', but some types are tastier than others (energy from living things is tastier than energy from stars, for instance. Apparently, addictively so.)
Commissar Typhus wrote:
First off, the tyranid fleets were just the very tip of the edge of the true size, cause if you look at all the tyranid maps in any codex you find them, only the very tips are in the Milky Way and not the main fleets.
I think that that's to show the path they took, not their actual size. Two Hive Fleets have been pretty much destroyed. Leviathan is still on the rampage but we don't know how it's doing in the Octavius Empire.
As for the castigator titans, do you mean the one from the GK omnibus stories? And they would still lose titan fights, ever heard of a tyranid bio-titan?
I think he does, and if he does, then those Titans would be vastly superior to Bio-Titans. The whole point of them was that they were superior to the Titans the Imperium uses, which can seemingly do well against Bio-Titans.
Brother Coa wrote:As for the fleet...their fleet is to small to stand against any other fleet.
The problem is that that's as it stands at the moment, when large numbers of the Tomb Worlds are still dormant. We don't know the actual numbers of Necron ships. They also have superior faster-than-light travel than any other faction, so they could conceivably cut-off and destroy smaller portions of their fleets (as they won't all be in one position).
bob the heretic wrote:Not just deamons. The Servants of Chaos (Marines and traitor humans) would appear in large numbers crushing them.
Not in the actual Warp (or at least they shouldn't be. I'm not sure how the new Draigo background alters that. If he can wander around smashing stuff up, maybe mortal Chaos servants could do so as well (assuming the Chaos Gods grant them protection)).
purplefood wrote:Chaos ships apparently don't use Gellar fields since they are protected by their gods...
So they could easily fight the Necrons whilst in the warp.
...had the Necrons construct a series of 'pylons' on the world of Cadia, which, when completed, will close off the Warp from the material universe entirely, utterly destroying any living creatures with a soul, leaving all other life in the galaxy as nourishment for the C'tan...
wiki quote.
They almost destroyed the eye. If they had finished this projected, everything would die. So yes, they are a threat.
@BobtheHeretic, The mortal servants would come, but the necrons would keep reforming, and the chaos gods don't bother saving the lives of their mortal servants, only the immortal daemons and their greatest champions, so they would end up losing enormous resources there.
SomeRandomEvilGuy wrote: I think he does, and if he does, then those Titans would be vastly superior to Bio-Titans. The whole point of them was that they were superior to the Titans the Imperium uses, which can seemingly do well against Bio-Titans.
QFT
@ Brother Coa, the army doesn't shut down when you destroy their sources, the are not the droids from SW, they simply stop teleporting back to the monoliths for repairs, and even then, they are made of necrodermis, and so can still repair.
@ Commissar Typhus, I know this is just the tip of the iceberg, I even mentioned in my post that we have only defeated the first wave of attack, they were really just the vanguard....
im2randomghgh wrote:The army doesn't shut down when you destroy their sources, the are not the droids from SW, they simply stop teleporting back to the monoliths for repairs, and even then, they are made of necrodermis, and so can still repair.
Then how they all shut down in SS? They decide to do a softer update while in a middle of battle?
Almost everyone said DoW videogames ARE canon. So this video is canon since GW said that IG won the Kaurava campaign. So, Necrons where defeated by destroying their source of power, and that's valuable information indeed...
The Necrons just despaired and shut down because they had to be in a game where we have an Alpha Legion Lord who is even more dimwitted than good old Crull and who rants about metal boxes and a Space Marine Captain who suffers from a rather...odd speech impediment and realy sucks at...everything. ( poor guy, i can imagine how everyone in his company snickered whenever he tried to hold an "inspirational" speech ).
Almost everyone said DoW videogames ARE canon. So this video is canon since GW said that IG won the Kaurava campaign. So, Necrons where defeated by destroying their source of power, and that's valuable information indeed...
It is canon, which is why the Tau had a weapon that is exterminatus only for sentient beings right? If the Tau actually had that kind of weapon, they would butt rape the IoM all over the place, despite being 1/10,000 it's size.
The necron thing was just a cheap plot gimmick to explain why they would stop re-forming.
Never take anything from any source other than codexes, rulebooks, Imperial armour and BL as canon, ever.
im2randomghgh wrote:
Never take anything from any source other than codexes, rulebooks, Imperial armour and BL as canon, ever.
I am sorry, but why?
These games are under GW licence, and BL writers wrote the campaign plot for every DoW game.
I know you are septic, because in DoW Necrons are the weakest race to play with ( they will always be owned by IG ) and nothing can stand against Celestians, SM with HB, mass of Guardsman with GL, Eldar Banshee rush... however, those games plots are GW canon and that's the end of the story.
I only take storyline and certain events as canon ( for "event's" I meant the videos of victorious race from the campaign ). And Necrons where defeated in SS by destroying their power sources, you saw the video - they didn't teleported, they just shut down.
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im2randomghgh wrote:
It is canon, which is why the Tau had a weapon that is exterminatus only for sentient beings right? If the Tau actually had that kind of weapon, they would butt rape the IoM all over the place, despite being 1/10,000 it's size.
And if I am not mistaken, that weapon is still experimental and it was tested on Kaurava. Since the Tau lost that campaign some time will pass until they use it again...
And weapon can be fired once on a while, and it had LARGE coll down and small area of effect...well, it's better than nothing...
im2randomghgh wrote:
Never take anything from any source other than codexes, rulebooks, Imperial armour and BL as canon, ever.
I am sorry, but why?
These games are under GW licence, and BL writers wrote the campaign plot for every DoW game.
I know you are septic, because in DoW Necrons are the weakest race to play with ( they will always be owned by IG ) and nothing can stand against Celestians, SM with HB, mass of Guardsman with GL, Eldar Banshee rush... however, those games plots are GW canon and that's the end of the story.
I only take storyline and certain events as canon ( for "event's" I meant the videos of victorious race from the campaign ). And Necrons where defeated in SS by destroying their power sources, you saw the video - they didn't teleported, they just shut down.
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im2randomghgh wrote:
It is canon, which is why the Tau had a weapon that is exterminatus only for sentient beings right? If the Tau actually had that kind of weapon, they would butt rape the IoM all over the place, despite being 1/10,000 it's size.
And if I am not mistaken, that weapon is still experimental and it was tested on Kaurava. Since the Tau lost that campaign some time will pass until they use it again...
And weapon can be fired once on a while, and it had LARGE coll down and small area of effect...well, it's better than nothing...
GW just gives their name to it, and the writers, being freelance, can do whatevr they like.
Plus, you admitted to taking parts as canon but not others...inconsistent.
Plus the fact that there are multiple outcomes, and many variable mini-movies...it just means that it is literally impossible for it to be canon as it full-out contradicts itself
Cooldown doesn't matter-you're not going to be doing exterminatus all that often. But what really sets it apart is that it would make it super easy to capture enemy ships intact-a single shot gets you a ship.
The AoE isn't small in any way, not sure where you got that...interplanetary weapons don't snipe, they blow gak up.
Even the Ultramarines movie (which doesn't contradict itself endlessly like SS and is much more plausible) isn't canon, as all the ultramarine captains are named characters, and Severus isn't one of them.
Even the Ultramarines movie (which doesn't contradict itself endlessly like SS and is much more plausible) isn't canon, as all the ultramarine captains are named characters, and Severus isn't one of them.
Severus Agemman is listed as the UM 1st Company captain on Lexicanum. As befits the rank of captain of the 1st Company, he's also the Regent of Ultramar. I'm not sure, however, when this was codified on Lexicanum, as there's no direct source quoted for that position.
Agemman apparently succeeded Captain Invictus, who died at the Battle of Macragge.
Even the Ultramarines movie (which doesn't contradict itself endlessly like SS and is much more plausible) isn't canon, as all the ultramarine captains are named characters, and Severus isn't one of them.
Severus Agemman is listed as the UM 1st Company captain on Lexicanum. As befits the rank of captain of the 1st Company, he's also the Regent of Ultramar. I'm not sure, however, when this was codified on Lexicanum, as there's no direct source quoted for that position.
Agemman apparently succeeded Captain Invictus, who died at the Battle of Macragge.
When we're arguing about sources that can't be considered canon, it is generally not a good idea to quote lexicanum
im2randomghgh wrote:
GW just gives their name to it, and the writers, being freelance, can do whatevr they like.
GW won't publish anything that will confuse the gamers because they will know that will make them debate about canon stuff. Likr you and I, but I know for wrighters that they had at least 1 writher from BL, just to make sure that they don't go to far away.
Plus, you admitted to taking parts as canon but not others...inconsistent.
Plus the fact that there are multiple outcomes, and many variable mini-movies...it just means that it is literally impossible for it to be canon as it full-out contradicts itself
Yes I said that, let me simplify. I take for canon the movies of victorious race ( didn't bother to look at Tau endings when they lose in both games ). And for the "multiple outcomes" GW have resolved that by telling us: "this race has won the campaign, everybody else lost". SO canon movies would be that of SM in Kronus and IG on Kaurava.
Beside, you read the tread I give to you? Majority agreed that GW games ( all of them, even FireWarrior ) are canon. Simply because there is nothing out there to tell it otherwise and I have already explained multiple endings... They also said that "everybody that say otherwise simply don't like the outcome of the story", so I am guessing that you play as Tau in both games and it must be really hard on you when you learned that they lost in both games. I know how it was, I was little sad when I learned about Kaurava and SM, but accepted that and move forward...
Cooldown doesn't matter-you're not going to be doing exterminatus all that often. But what really sets it apart is that it would make it super easy to capture enemy ships intact-a single shot gets you a ship.
The AoE isn't small in any way, not sure where you got that...interplanetary weapons don't snipe, they blow gak up.
In Tau case this IW snipe, they snipe the small area of the land and kill every living thing. And it was not confirmed in SS that weapon can penetrate void shields.
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im2randomghgh wrote:
When we're arguing about sources that can't be considered canon, it is generally not a good idea to quote lexicanum
Why not? Lexicanum stand beside codex and rulebook as official canon site. Are you saying that things on Lexicanum are not canon? That's like saying that Wikipedia is not canon to everything.
Beside Ultramarines movie story is canon, you have all characters on Lexicanum, they even done a interlude story with Tyranid invasion to the planet.
Defiler37 wrote:So based on what i read through my codex and a few pages of the big rulebook, in every story about necrons its just one army getting completely wiped out without killing one. So is it me or can the necrons literally not be killed in the story of 40k? cant they just take over the universe?
I think you'll find that the codex for every army makes them sound like the most unstoppable force in the universe.
What about the IG? I have an older version codex, and it has stories about them getting killed and betrayed. Even the pictures have them having there heads being clawed off by the 'nids. Also, in all the non-Imperium codexes I have read, the Guard are always the ones being taken out by your brand new army. Example: Stormtroopers being ripped in half by zoanthropes, A T'au walker shooting the side of a Leman Russ, and having the occupants being sucked out of the exit hole (About 5cm wide at most) and finally, to do with this thread, the Cadian 23rd being wiped out by Necrons in an ambush. Notable occurences in that story: Guardsmen being flayed, a glancing hit with gauss, causing a large, bloody wound, only to have the wind blow sand in it and a still wet skinned body that a Flayed one had just given a once over.
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Urien_Rakarth wrote:Its my theory that if you over whelm the Necrons enough, and then destroy the tomb world, then they'll have no where to Phase Out too...
When has anyone overwhelmed the 'crons who weren't Old Ones
Defiler37 wrote:So based on what i read through my codex and a few pages of the big rulebook, in every story about necrons its just one army getting completely wiped out without killing one. So is it me or can the necrons literally not be killed in the story of 40k? cant they just take over the universe?
Fear not, Mat Ward will see to it that as far as necron history goes they are repaired and services by Jawa's in those huge brown land vehicles. Also they breed with various forms of trees to create baby necrons. However, the baby necrons are then devoured by upstart sisters of battle as their initiation rite to wear power armor. Then the devoured baby necrons will burst from the sister's chests and Ripley from Aliens will need to be called upon to take a Dreadknight into battle against the necron lord. At this point the Dark Eldar and Eldar will unite to battle the vast necron horde along with a strong alliance between the Grey Knights and Chaos Daemons.
Also Tyranids become domesticated and household pets of the IG regiments.
Fully awakened Necrons would be hard to stop as C'tan were throwing system killing black holes for fun(it's in their Codex).On the other hand we all know that the Emperor or something else will vanquish them.
IvanTih wrote:Fully awakened Necrons would be hard to stop as C'tan were throwing system killing black holes for fun(it's in their Codex).On the other hand we all know that the Emperor or something else will vanquish them.
Unfortunately, we all know it's never going to happen and all the armies will continue to duke it out in the longest year in history, 40,999.
Either that or make them watch robot chicken. They will be so traumatized that they will be un-made and the C'tan will give up their physical bodies and stop consuming energy from living beings on the condition we shut it off.
davethepak wrote:The only real threat are the eldar, and they are a shadow of what they once were....mostly dead.
Imperium? Alliances?
The deciever can be anyone at anytime. If he can create wars at a whim, he could easily stop any alliances he wanted.
Heck, if he joined with the Ctan on mars....yeah, the mechanicus would follow him...that would be a civil war....
The irony is, that Necrons and Nids make perfect allies....until the food runs out. Ctan eat souls, then bugs eat bodies...
Bugs move on to next galaxy....ctan go back to sleep waiting for any microbes to repopulate the galaxy again.
Ironically, chaos might be the only answer.
Unless the creators of the tau have some miracle card...
Oh yeah, the eldar, they made a bunch of weapons to annihilate Necrons if they ever came back and then the Deceiver went amongst them, found the weapons, and then destroyed most of them and put the rest well out of reach of the Farseers for all time. And there are already those in the adeptus Mechanicus who follow him and are the reason why he has been able to harvest and make pariahs.
together and start there red harvest again... it wouldnt matter if the whole imperium stood united, these guys pucked the OLD ONES! there would be no hope for humanity.
and a still wet skinned body that a Flayed one had just given a once over.