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Post by: Brother Coa
What's the most idiotic thing you have ever saw of heard in 40k?
To me it's the Taros campaign. The amount of disorganization between the Imperial troops was so great that mid-eval army could defeat them. And they even have Space Marines that they use completely wrong...
After that, I suppose Eldar in DoW II ( first one ). Instead of coming to Thule and asking for help - they do everything to doom Human worlds. In the end Imperial defeat Tyranids, Orks and Eldar... And they do that without using half of their chapter... 
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Post by: purplefood
The reason the Soul Drinkers went renegade...
37647
Post by: Laodamia
Why Lugft Huron turned traitor. I have read both Badab war books several times and I still don't understand why he thought withstanding geene-seed for so long would be a good idea.
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Post by: ChrisWWII
The Taros Campaign. Why did the Tau have all the good fortune, and the Impeirals completeley and utterly fail to do anything intelligent?
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Post by: bigmek35
codex GK, BA, and all the ultra marine flff in C:SM
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Post by: xXSir MontyXx
ChrisWWII wrote:The Taros Campaign. Why did the Tau have all the good fortune, and the Impeirals completeley and utterly fail to do anything intelligent?
BECAUSE.... if you put a decent command structure behind those forces the Tau wouldn't be here anymore..... 
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Post by: Brunius
Bringing out Codex: Space Marines.
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Post by: bob the heretic
Brunius wrote:Bringing out Codex: Space Marines.
 You stole my comment! 
Well it is very dumb how Space Marine fight one another. Like when the Dark Angels and Black Templers fought each other just beacuse they both wanted to excecute a Fallen Angel.
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Post by: Sothas
Draigo.
One man, I don't care who you are, should not have the ability to carve anything into a primarchs chest (unless you're a primarch of course). His story, while understood to show the sheer awesomeness of GKs, its stupidly over the top.
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Post by: Mr. Burning
In a nutshell:
Horus, gets stabbed with a magic sword, turns traitor.
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Post by: Brother Coa
Or the fact that Goge Vandir declare war on Adaptus Mechanicus and Adaptus Astartes
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Post by: SilverMK2
zilegil wrote:Nurgle. The gods of chaos are meant to be based on an emotion, or thought. Illness is not an emotion.
http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Nurgle
"All gods are embodiments of the hopes, fears and other strong emotions and concepts generated by the mortal races. In Nurgle's case, the source of power is the livings' fear of inevitable death and disease, and their unconscious response to that fear, which is the "power of life", the motivating power of mankind and other races."
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Post by: Scarey Nerd
The Tau Ethereal that invited the Necrons down to the planet for a party. How stupid are you that you invite metal skeletons that have the firepower to destroy an entire Tyranid invasion force in a matter of a couple of days down for a celebratory party?
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Post by: tarnish
That space marine tactics are completely suicidal sometimes and overtly clever at others. Wouldent they have a manual for this? Mabye fulgrim should have read it?
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Post by: Scarey Nerd
tarnish wrote:That space marine tactics are completely suicidal sometimes and overtly clever at others. Wouldent they have a manual for this? Mabye fulgrim should have read it?
I thought there was a manual called the Codex Astartes, written by Mr R. Guilliman?
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Post by: Mr. Burning
The Emperor.
Stop acting like a demi god if you do not want to be worshipped.
jeez.
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Post by: iproxtaco
That no thread can go a day without mentioning Matt Ward.
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Post by: purplefood
Mr. Burning wrote:In a nutshell:
Horus, gets stabbed with a magic sword, turns traitor.
I thought it was more like:
Gets stabbed with a magic swod, dies, comes back a traitor.
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Post by: redeyed
that pesky magic sword/ those wizards again!
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Post by: iproxtaco
purplefood wrote:Mr. Burning wrote:In a nutshell:
Horus, gets stabbed with a magic sword, turns traitor.
I thought it was more like:
Gets stabbed with a magic swod, dies, comes back a traitor.
He doesn't die, the closest he gets is comatose. They take him to Davins other moon to stop him dying, which they achieve.
There's a lot more to it than simply Horus getting stabbed with the sword and instantly turning traitor but thats a discussion for another thread.
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Post by: Commisar Von Humps
Most anything Written by Mat Ward. Really though, i think it is probably the Horus thing. Humanity was thrown into a 10k year and onward conflict with probably the greatest mortal and imortal evil to ever exist. Made for a great game and dozens of books though  .
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Post by: Corporal_Reznov
I have a small list of things I hate and consider idiotic in 40k.
1] Chuck 'Draigo' Norris. Matt Ward's favorite child. He's story is completely ridiculous and spits in the face of the entire premise of 40k.
2] "Everyone wants to be an Ultramarine!" Again, another Ward product.
3] The Taros campaign from Imperial Armour. Its nothing but Tau masturbation and Tau-mary sue in all its glory. The Marines and Guard were made to look like idiots and people who suffer incredible bad luck so that the Tau could win.
4] The Siege of Vraks from Imperial Armour, again. Their are ways that the Imperium could have handled that conflict better, but it was all ignored just so that a book and scenario could be created.
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Post by: nomotog
Tyranid weapons. I was flipping through the rule book and I swear I saw one with a clip. Your an organic race, why do you have guns?
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Post by: tarnish
iproxtaco wrote:
He doesn't die, the closest he gets is comatose. They take him to Davins other moon to stop him dying, which they achieve.
There's a lot more to it than simply Horus getting stabbed with the sword and instantly turning traitor but thats a discussion for another thread.
which book in the heresy series details this event? id really like to read it
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Post by: InquisitorRoeth
Sothas wrote:Draigo.
One man, I don't care who you are, should not have the ability to carve anything into a primarchs chest (unless you're a primarch of course). His story, while understood to show the sheer awesomeness of GKs, its stupidly over the top.
And in the old fluff, one Justicar by himself could slay a Greater Daemon. Why can't a GRAND MASTER carve a name into a Daemon Primarch's heart? Grey Knights are meant to be over the top. Personally, I like Draigo's fluff (please don't attempt to kill me for saying that. It's just my opinion). Yeah, Ward wrote some ridiculous fluff for the Knights, but besides the Sister slaying and covering their armor in their blood, I liked the fluff (again, please don't kill me for saying that).
Anyways, back on topic for me now.....
Most idiotic thing in the 40k universe? I'll give you a two word answer:
Tau Empire
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Post by: iproxtaco
tarnish wrote:iproxtaco wrote:
He doesn't die, the closest he gets is comatose. They take him to Davins other moon to stop him dying, which they achieve.
There's a lot more to it than simply Horus getting stabbed with the sword and instantly turning traitor but thats a discussion for another thread.
which book in the heresy series details this event? id really like to read it
False Gods.
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Post by: ShaiAhlude
42592
Post by: JamesMclaren123
Fireing 87 las-shots into a group of sanguinary guard and killing two people! :(
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Post by: IvanTih
Corporal_Reznov wrote:I have a small list of things I hate and consider idiotic in 40k.
1] Chuck 'Draigo' Norris. Matt Ward's favorite child. He's story is completely ridiculous and spits in the face of the entire premise of 40k.
2] "Everyone wants to be an Ultramarine!" Again, another Ward product.
3] The Taros campaign from Imperial Armour. Its nothing but Tau masturbation and Tau-mary sue in all its glory. The Marines and Guard were made to look like idiots and people who suffer incredible bad luck so that the Tau could win.
4] The Siege of Vraks from Imperial Armour, again. Their are ways that the Imperium could have handled that conflict better, but it was all ignored just so that a book and scenario could be created.
QFT.
Almost every IA sucks.Even the Nid IA is known for downgrading Nids(the most pathetic Bio Titan ever seen) and I always wonder why did the Eversor suddenly forgot to bring a spare clip.
The whole Vraks thing is the worst piece of fluff(Vindicares have shield piercing rounds you FW idio** and that's from their codex).
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Post by: tarnish
iproxtaco wrote: False Gods.
thanks loads iproxtaco
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Post by: Laodamia
Orks.
How these green-skin idiots that couldn't even find their as*** with a map and a compass are able to build guns and space-ships will always amaze me.
Yeah, I know, genetic memory and all that. Well let me tell you it's the worst excuse for a scientific explanation I have ever heard.
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Post by: Henners91
-Apathy
-Despair
-Dread
-Fear
-Complacency
-Love (in a family sense)
-Companionship
-Humour
Need I go on?
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Post by: sarpedons-right-hand
It's been said before but I'll toss in my two pence worth.... The GK fluff is, frankly, insultingly bad. I mean, Birmingham! Really?!
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Post by: diesel7270
I vote Tau in general. I don't understand how a galaxy-spanning game can consider a race occupying such a jokingly small part of space can be considered a valid enough force to be a 40K army. Sure, they have technology and tactics. But, seriously, how can you even consider making them part of epic, sweeping battles, or legitimate threats? How can you make them part of a campaign with multiple planets and stars when the book specifically states every solar system they occupy? And any one of these things can be individually forgiven, but the worst is seeing the writers writing themselves against a wall for no apparent reason. Why on earth would you decide to make them so puny?
Additionally, if they're supposed to be some "covenant" style conglomeration of races, why only have two others featured? As in, the bear minimum of what would be considered a valid use of "other races". Two more would be considered acceptable to me. And one of those two could very well be a human force. Or anything else. There are also veiled references in fluff of other races of "empires"... how about putting them in? Or getting rid of Tau and making a new race? Lizardmen in space?
The second aspect is the loyalist's Space Marines fighting each other over really dumb things, or the fact that a handful of featured chapters have their own codex and are notoriously hard to beat without an army custom made to do it. Like the White Scars, if I wanted a chapter to play I would paint and army list it appropriately. Use those funds you get from overcharging me to come up with new, effective races.
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Post by: Kanluwen
Sothas wrote:Draigo.
One man, I don't care who you are, should not have the ability to carve anything into a primarchs chest (unless you're a primarch of course). His story, while understood to show the sheer awesomeness of GKs, its stupidly over the top.
The silliest thing I've ever read in relation to 40k is forum comments. It goes to show that people either go off of second or thirdhand accounts and don't read the material themselves before getting in a tizzy about it.
It's not "one man" who did it in a one on one fight with a Daemonic Primarch(and for the record: Mortarion? He was a pushover. The Primarchs had 'differing power levels' by all accounts, and Mortarion was pretty low on it). This was done in the midst of a battle where the Grey Knights were winning.
IvanTih wrote:Almost every IA sucks.Even the Nid IA is known for downgrading Nids(the most pathetic Bio Titan ever seen)
What? The Hierophant was apparently pretty capable since it...y'know, was the key to the Tyranids destroying the facility on Anphelion.
and I always wonder why did the Eversor suddenly forgot to bring a spare clip.
Operation Deathblow and its targeted assassination of the Tau higher-ups, you mean?
The whole reason Shas'o R'myr was not killed is because he wasn't in the command post when the Eversor self-destructed.
I don't think you can bring a 'spare clip' for a self-destruct. 
The whole Vraks thing is the worst piece of fluff(Vindicares have shield piercing rounds you FW idio** and that's from their codex).
Shield piercing rounds don't do anything when another steps in front of the target.
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Post by: Lokirfellheart
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Post by: Brother Coa
InquisitorRoeth wrote:
Most idiotic thing in the 40k universe? I'll give you a two word answer:
Tau Empire
My brother.... 
40252
Post by: Revenent Reiko
This. Stupid Ward madness.
(although, its an awesome picture right? )
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Post by: BeefCakeSoup
Nothing really.
I love Warhammer 40K. Every race no matter how silly it looks at times has a good fit in the universe created by GW and its fans. Even Matt Wards fluff has its place. Though I may not be a fan, I still enjoy the ongoing stories that give us all something to complain or boast about. Take Tau for example, you may hate them because they pants the IoM from time to time, but how boring would it be if you had one less enemy to fight? Game would lose a little bit of what makes it cool imo.
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Post by: Hlaine Larkin mk2
Why the ultrasmurks are so loved yet were the least successful legion adn act like pompus oduches yet are the 'heroes'
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Post by: Sothas
InquisitorRoeth wrote:Sothas wrote:Draigo.
One man, I don't care who you are, should not have the ability to carve anything into a primarchs chest (unless you're a primarch of course). His story, while understood to show the sheer awesomeness of GKs, its stupidly over the top.
And in the old fluff, one Justicar by himself could slay a Greater Daemon. Why can't a GRAND MASTER carve a name into a Daemon Primarch's heart? Grey Knights are meant to be over the top. Personally, I like Draigo's fluff (please don't attempt to kill me for saying that. It's just my opinion). Yeah, Ward wrote some ridiculous fluff for the Knights, but besides the Sister slaying and covering their armor in their blood, I liked the fluff (again, please don't kill me for saying that). Anyways, back on topic for me now..... Most idiotic thing in the 40k universe? I'll give you a two word answer: Tau Empire
I was about to inform you how your life was about to end, then I read the last two words and litterally ROFLed. So you're safe now. Automatically Appended Next Post: Kanluwen wrote:The silliest thing I've ever read in relation to 40k is forum comments. It goes to show that people either go off of second or thirdhand accounts and don't read the material themselves before getting in a tizzy about it.
It's not "one man" who did it in a one on one fight with a Daemonic Primarch(and for the record: Mortarion? He was a pushover. The Primarchs had 'differing power levels' by all accounts, and Mortarion was pretty low on it). This was done in the midst of a battle where the Grey Knights were winning.
Wait seriously? You're saying that a Primach is a pushover? Mortarion being less than other Primarchs? Yeah ok. But being a pushover compared to any other space marine? Using the basis that a justicar can slay a greater daemon as a footing for the idea than Draigo can carve his forbearers name into Mortie's heart is rediculous. Justicars being able to kill a greater daemon is rediculous too FYI. Also, I have read the fluff. I own the dex. I didn't get this info from following a forum. GJ on being an a**.
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Post by: Kanluwen
Sothas wrote:Wait seriously? You're saying that a Primach is a pushover? Mortarion being less than other Primarchs? Yeah ok. But being a pushover compared to any other space marine?
Mortarion was regularly beaten in the training cages by his own Marines. Very few members of the Death Guard were considered particularly skilled fighters by the rest of the Legions. Stubborn? God yes. Tough? Of course.
But skilled fighters? Not really. The fact that Mortarion was regularly beaten by his own Marines pretty much says it all in terms of how much of a pushover he was.
Using the basis that a justicar can slay a greater daemon as a footing for the idea than Draigo can carve his forbearers name into Mortie's heart is ridiculous. Justicars being able to kill a greater daemon is ridiculous too FYI.
So wait. Marines who've specialized and trained nonstop in fighting Daemons can't put the smackdown on a Daemon Primarch?
Also, I have read the fluff. I own the dex. I didn't get this info from following a forum. GJ on being an a**.
Then I'd suggest you go back and reread the fluff. Because you clearly missed something in reading it the first time. It really isn't as bad as people make it out to be.
Or you're just jumping on the Draigo hate train and ignoring the fact that in the Ork Codex by Phil Kelly, an Ork Warboss castrated a Bloodthirster.
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Post by: Sothas
Again, you're assuming. I'm not discounting the rediculousness of anything else. I'm just point out this rediculousness. There's lots of it in 40k. The GW writers don't quite understand the concept of TOO big. Take Commorragh for example. Draigo walking around the warp like he owns the place is pretty over the top.
Also, this is an opinion thread. You're free to stop being an a** hat at any time now.
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Post by: Kanluwen
I'm not actually assuming.
It's in "Flight of the Eisenstein". Garro talks about how Mortarion is considered to be a 'fair' fighter by Astartes standards. But...that's not going to put him on par with anyone else.
And Draigo walking around the Warp like he owns the place is because the Chaos Gods are letting him. They find him amusing.
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Post by: ChrisWWII
Kanluwen wrote:I'm not actually assuming.
It's in "Flight of the Eisenstein". Garro talks about how Mortarion is considered to be a 'fair' fighter by Astartes standards. But...that's not going to put him on par with anyone else.
And Draigo walking around the Warp like he owns the place is because the Chaos Gods are letting him. They find him amusing.
To be honest the thing that made me rage most about it was why Mortarion is OUT WALKING AROUND OUTSIDE THE EYE in the first place.
I mean, it's canon that Angron is the only Daemon Primarch who does the whole 'attack realspace' thing. Wouldn't it be a much bigger deal if Mortarion decided to join in too?
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Post by: Revenent Reiko
Sothas wrote:Also, this is an opinion thread. You're free to stop being an a** hat at any time now.
Rule No.1
its not difficult, stop being inflammatory because someone has a different opinion to you please.
42053
Post by: Sothas
Revenent Reiko wrote:Sothas wrote:Also, this is an opinion thread. You're free to stop being an a** hat at any time now.
Rule No.1 its not difficult, stop being inflammatory because someone has a different opinion to you please.
I'm not. He basically called me an idiot for my opinion. Read further up.
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Post by: purplefood
ChrisWWII wrote:Kanluwen wrote:I'm not actually assuming.
It's in "Flight of the Eisenstein". Garro talks about how Mortarion is considered to be a 'fair' fighter by Astartes standards. But...that's not going to put him on par with anyone else.
And Draigo walking around the Warp like he owns the place is because the Chaos Gods are letting him. They find him amusing.
To be honest the thing that made me rage most about it was why Mortarion is OUT WALKING AROUND OUTSIDE THE EYE in the first place.
I mean, it's canon that Angron is the only Daemon Primarch who does the whole 'attack realspace' thing. Wouldn't it be a much bigger deal if Mortarion decided to join in too?
Magnus is constantly attacking Fenris or coming up with shenanigans for it.
The others probably orchestrate some attacks at the very least. The only ones we know definately don't do anything are Lorgar and possibly the primacrh of the emperor's Childern whose name i forget for some strange reason.
40252
Post by: Revenent Reiko
@Sothas:I have read the whole thing, its you continuing it, be the bigger man(/woman, stupid internet i cant tell either way sorry) and let it go. Automatically Appended Next Post: purplefood wrote:ChrisWWII wrote:Kanluwen wrote:I'm not actually assuming.
It's in "Flight of the Eisenstein". Garro talks about how Mortarion is considered to be a 'fair' fighter by Astartes standards. But...that's not going to put him on par with anyone else.
And Draigo walking around the Warp like he owns the place is because the Chaos Gods are letting him. They find him amusing.
To be honest the thing that made me rage most about it was why Mortarion is OUT WALKING AROUND OUTSIDE THE EYE in the first place. I mean, it's canon that Angron is the only Daemon Primarch who does the whole 'attack realspace' thing. Wouldn't it be a much bigger deal if Mortarion decided to join in too?
Magnus is constantly attacking Fenris or coming up with shenanigans for it. The others probably orchestrate some attacks at the very least. The only ones we know definately don't do anything are Lorgar and possibly the primacrh of the emperor's Childern whose name i forget for some strange reason.
Fulgrim
27848
Post by: ChrisWWII
purplefood wrote:
Magnus is constantly attacking Fenris or coming up with shenanigans for it.
The others probably orchestrate some attacks at the very least. The only ones we know definately don't do anything are Lorgar and possibly the primacrh of the emperor's Childern whose name i forget for some strange reason.
Well yes, but coordination and orchestration are very different from being on the front lines where the Grey Knights can come punch you in the face.
The second part of Draigo's fluff that pisses me off the most is the 'daemons fear him' part. You can justify him beating Mortarion, and his continual wandering of the Warp, but how do you justify that 'daemons fear him' part?
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Post by: Kanluwen
Sothas wrote:Revenent Reiko wrote:Sothas wrote:Also, this is an opinion thread. You're free to stop being an a** hat at any time now.
Rule No.1
its not difficult, stop being inflammatory because someone has a different opinion to you please.
I'm not. He basically called me an idiot for my opinion. Read further up.
I said "silly", actually. I find the idea of this thread being "the most idiotic thing" ridiculous.
It should be "the silliest thing".
And honestly your post was used as an example because it's a perfect example of a situation blown out of proportion. A huge amount of people whining about Mat Ward's fluff haven't even read the relevant piece in the Grey Knights codex.
ChrisWWII wrote:To be honest the thing that made me rage most about it was why Mortarion is OUT WALKING AROUND OUTSIDE THE EYE in the first place.
I mean, it's canon that Angron is the only Daemon Primarch who does the whole 'attack realspace' thing. Wouldn't it be a much bigger deal if Mortarion decided to join in too?
From what I can tell, they're making it so that Angron is the only Daemon Primarch who 'does the whole attack realspace thing' with no actual Daemonic infestation on the planet to work with.
The fact that Mortarion was there made it seem like it was part of a huge daemonic incursion orchestrated by the Death Guard.
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Post by: UselessSage
purplefood wrote:The reason the Soul Drinkers went renegade...
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Post by: purplefood
UselessSage wrote:purplefood wrote:The reason the Soul Drinkers went renegade...
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Post by: tarnish
What i dont get about the Draigo fluff is that hes actually wandering the warp. since when is that even remotely possible? he doggy-paddles around the endless ocean looking for things to kill? i can stomach the whole badass routine but it seems noone even bothered explaining the warp to matt in the first place. That flaw is so basic it baffles my mind.
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Post by: Miraclefish
tarnish wrote:What i dont get about the Draigo fluff is that hes actually wandering the warp. since when is that even remotely possible? he doggy-paddles around the endless ocean looking for things to kill? i can stomach the whole badass routine but it seems noone even bothered explaining the warp to matt in the first place. That flaw is so basic it baffles my mind.
The Warp isn't just the Sea of Souls, within the Eye of Terror there are worlds which are daemon-infested or twisted to the whim of daemons, but still very much real.
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Post by: Leigen_Zero
Some of the stuff about the Void Dragon.
I mean, emperor duffs over a huge necrodermis dragon that can eat planets, then stuffs the non-physical form into a cave on Mars, which starts leaking out uber-tech-things and is worshipped by the mechanicus as the machine spirit, but the dragon cannot leave the cave, but at the same time has no body so becomes part of the cave itself, so the void dragon is imprisoned in a cave, and the cave is now the void dragon so the void dragon is imprisoned in a cave that is now the void dragon but it cannot break out of itself because it is part of the cave....
wha...?
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Post by: reds8n
UselessSage wrote:purplefood wrote:The reason the Soul Drinkers went renegade...
That's not actually why the Soul Drinkers went renegade at all I'm afraid.
See http://www.blacklibrary.com/Exclusive-Products/Collectors-Editions/Daenyathos.html ( if you ever can) for full details.
Even if it was i don't really see or why the hubris of a mortal is a "stupid" reason for a chapter to be declared rogue.
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Post by: KingDeath
Some of the Imperial Armour whines are pretty silly. Oh noes, the Imperium loses a badly planned, underequiped crusade against a well prepared foe on Taros ( and no, bad luck played only a small part in this campaign, the lack of avaiable regiments and resources was more important)! Oh noes! The Siege of Vraks is so unrealistic because...erm...the Emprah's forces there need more than a bunch of Spessmehreens to win! /o\
But to answer the op's question, there are many things within the current fluff which i find idiotic.
- Shadowsun defeating an entire splinterfleet without the loss of a single vessel...
- M'Kar's punching bag status, seriously, never has a daemonprince been less threatening ( at least until the Chapter's Due, i liked him there. But the novel has several discrepancies with other sources, which is sad )
- The Soul Drinkers novels, the adventures of Captain Mutant and his merry band of X-men wannabes...
- and my absolute favourite: "Let no good deed go unpunished, let no evil deed go unrewared"...*shudder*, poor Chaos players :(
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Post by: Fury_00011
The tau making an alliance with the dark eldar ouch!
36011
Post by: xXSir MontyXx
Ork's randomly having awesome weapons and vehicles..... (godbreaker)
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Post by: Curis
zilegil wrote:Nurgle. The gods of chaos are meant to be based on an emotion, or thought. Illness is not an emotion.
Nurgle was originally based on joy - we're all going to rot away so let's celebrate our short lives.
Modern Nurgle seems to be moving over into despair.
36011
Post by: xXSir MontyXx
Curis wrote:zilegil wrote:Nurgle. The gods of chaos are meant to be based on an emotion, or thought. Illness is not an emotion.
Nurgle was originally based on joy - we're all going to rot away so let's celebrate our short lives.
Modern Nurgle seems to be moving over into despair.
Makes more sense to me, if everyone you know and love is being killed by some flesh eating virus you would probably be in a state of despair.
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Post by: Revenent Reiko
xXSir MontyXx wrote:Curis wrote:zilegil wrote:Nurgle. The gods of chaos are meant to be based on an emotion, or thought. Illness is not an emotion.
Nurgle was originally based on joy - we're all going to rot away so let's celebrate our short lives.
Modern Nurgle seems to be moving over into despair.
Makes more sense to me, if everyone you know and love is being killed by some flesh eating virus you would probably be in a state of despair.
since when has logic prevailed in the twisted realm of GW??
36011
Post by: xXSir MontyXx
Revenent Reiko wrote:xXSir MontyXx wrote:Curis wrote:zilegil wrote:Nurgle. The gods of chaos are meant to be based on an emotion, or thought. Illness is not an emotion.
Nurgle was originally based on joy - we're all going to rot away so let's celebrate our short lives. Modern Nurgle seems to be moving over into despair.
Makes more sense to me, if everyone you know and love is being killed by some flesh eating virus you would probably be in a state of despair.
since when has logic prevailed in the twisted realm of GW??
Nurgle is just the beginning! Things will begin to slowly be more logical! The Space Wolves will be NORMAL SPACE MARINES
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Post by: Revenent Reiko
xXSir MontyXx wrote:Revenent Reiko wrote:xXSir MontyXx wrote:Curis wrote:zilegil wrote:Nurgle. The gods of chaos are meant to be based on an emotion, or thought. Illness is not an emotion.
Nurgle was originally based on joy - we're all going to rot away so let's celebrate our short lives.
Modern Nurgle seems to be moving over into despair.
Makes more sense to me, if everyone you know and love is being killed by some flesh eating virus you would probably be in a state of despair.
since when has logic prevailed in the twisted realm of GW??
Nurgle is just the beginning! Things will begin to slowly be more logical! The Space Wolves will be NORMAL SPACE MARINES
HERESY!
27848
Post by: ChrisWWII
Fury_00011 wrote:The tau making an alliance with the dark eldar ouch!
I thought that actually worked. Showed how horribly naive the Tau are.
36011
Post by: xXSir MontyXx
ChrisWWII wrote:Fury_00011 wrote:The tau making an alliance with the dark eldar ouch!
I thought that actually worked. Showed how horribly naive the Tau are.
-Dark Eldar "Alliance".
-Inviting the Necrons over for dinner.
-Thinking that they killed Slaanesh.
-Thinking that they defeated a large portion of the Imperiums forces.
I think this qualifies as naive, and are all very good fluff in my opinion
My vote however is for the Ork warboss that drove his bike into a titan cockpit and killed it!
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Post by: Melissia
Brother Coa wrote:What's the most idiotic thing you have ever saw of heard in 40k?
The entirety for the fluff for the Sons of Malice.
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Post by: Revenent Reiko
Melissia wrote:Brother Coa wrote:What's the most idiotic thing you have ever saw of heard in 40k?
The entirety for the fluff for the Sons of Malice.
Wow, thats just dreadful fluff...
although nice to see Malal isnt entirely gone
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Post by: Laodamia
xXSir MontyXx wrote:
My vote however is for the Ork warboss that drove his bike into a titan cockpit and killed it!
Indeed it sounds completely stupid.
Where does it come from?
What kind of titan was destroyed? A warhound, I guess. Otherwise, the titan's head would have been too high. But still, it doesn't seem to make sense whatsoever.
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Post by: Kanluwen
Laodamia wrote:xXSir MontyXx wrote:
My vote however is for the Ork warboss that drove his bike into a titan cockpit and killed it!
Indeed it sounds completely stupid.
Where does it come from?
What kind of titan was destroyed? A warhound, I guess. Otherwise, the titan's head would have been too high. But still, it doesn't seem to make sense whatsoever.
Phil Kelly's Codex: Orks(the current Codex).
And it was a Warlord Titan that Wazdakka killed by crashing into a Titan Cockpit.
But see, that's far from "completely stupid". It's thematically within the Ork camp. Orks can do anything they believe they can do.
They're the power of positive thinking exemplified. Think Ork!
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Post by: Chamleoneyes
Isn't all this just the entire history of 40k? How often dose a good rational makes sense story happen? In kill team 1 guardsman is holding off an entire force of tau. And in another book, a small kill team takes on an entire plant worth of Nids.
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Post by: tarnish
Kanluwen wrote:Think Ork!
Quote, the 5th element: "Super green!"
besides, the bike and cockpit story is probably something the orks tell eachother around the campfire. that does not mean it happened that way, or even at all. just like the Emperor protecting his entire race from daemons... *ducks for cover* 
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Post by: Revenent Reiko
Chamleoneyes wrote:Isn't all this just the entire history of 40k? How often dose a good rational makes sense story happen? In kill team 1 guardsman is holding off an entire force of tau. And in another book, a small kill team takes on an entire plant worth of Nids.
I have absolutely no idea what your second sentence says 
and Kill-Teams are meant to be anti-Xenos specialists, that and the Fluff marines are far superior to table-top marines anyway...
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Post by: Chamleoneyes
I'm just saying how often dose a 40k story make actually make complete sense.
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Post by: Kanluwen
Quite often actually.
Just usually not the ones within the Codices, unless they're the full two page or so descriptors of a single battle.
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Post by: purplefood
Chamleoneyes wrote:Isn't all this just the entire history of 40k? How often dose a good rational makes sense story happen? In kill team 1 guardsman is holding off an entire force of tau. And in another book, a small kill team takes on an entire plant worth of Nids.
Actually that guardsman gets blown to pieces several seconds after he leaves the narrator's group.
Not sure what the other book is but if it was i think it is then you are mistaken.
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Post by: Laodamia
Kanluwen wrote:
Phil Kelly's Codex: Orks(the current Codex).
And it was a Warlord Titan that Wazdakka killed by crashing into a Titan Cockpit.
But see, that's far from "completely stupid". It's thematically within the Ork camp. Orks can do anything they believe they can do.
They're the power of positive thinking exemplified. Think Ork!
WHAAAT?!? A warlord titan? You have to be kidding me! A warlord's head will be 45 meters above the ground. How would any ork warbike (especially a heavier boss-warbike) be able to jump that high?
Anyway, how was the ork able to aim directly at the titan's head?
And how was the warbike able to breach the 6 different sets of void shields and 200 mm of ceramite (that's probably four times the thickness of a termy suit) protecting the titan's crew?
That's insane!
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Post by: redeyed
tbh orks like to brag anyway so it probably was just a warhound or even a titan knight!
rule of 3!!
after just having read the grey knights codex...its the sisters story (not to start more Ward hate) but it really was silly..
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Post by: Kanluwen
Laodamia wrote:Kanluwen wrote:
Phil Kelly's Codex: Orks(the current Codex).
And it was a Warlord Titan that Wazdakka killed by crashing into a Titan Cockpit.
But see, that's far from "completely stupid". It's thematically within the Ork camp. Orks can do anything they believe they can do.
They're the power of positive thinking exemplified. Think Ork!
WHAAAT?!? A warlord titan? You have to be kidding me! A warlord's head will be 45 meters above the ground. How would any ork warbike (especially a heavier boss-warbike) be able to jump that high?
Anyway, how was the ork able to aim directly at the titan's head?
And how was the warbike able to breach the 6 different sets of void shields and 200 mm of ceramite (that's probably four times the thickness of a termy suit) protecting the titan's crew?
That's insane!
I already answered this.
The power of positive thinking allowed Wazdakka to destroy a Warlord Titan by driving at speed off a cliff.
Wazdakka read "The Secret". So should you! Automatically Appended Next Post: purplefood wrote:Chamleoneyes wrote:Isn't all this just the entire history of 40k? How often dose a good rational makes sense story happen? In kill team 1 guardsman is holding off an entire force of tau. And in another book, a small kill team takes on an entire plant worth of Nids.
Actually that guardsman gets blown to pieces several seconds after he leaves the narrator's group.
Not sure what the other book is but if it was i think it is then you are mistaken.
The second book was C.S. Goto's "Warrior Brood".
And they pretty much all die, so it goes as expected.
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Post by: Henners91
Revenent Reiko wrote:
This. Stupid Ward madness.
(although, its an awesome picture right? )
Weren't the Necrons assisting in the defense of a warp-nullifying pylon? It makes sense for them to entrust its defense to the Imperium, at least temporarily...
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Post by: Hlaine Larkin mk2
The fact that CS Groto got to put on to paper
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Post by: Revenent Reiko
Henners91 wrote:Revenent Reiko wrote:
This. Stupid Ward madness.
(although, its an awesome picture right? )
Weren't the Necrons assisting in the defense of a warp-nullifying pylon? It makes sense for them to entrust its defense to the Imperium, at least temporarily...
Nope,
"Commander Dante and the 3rd Company battle against the Necrons Legions of the Silent King amidst the dusty wastes of Gehenna. For three weeks, neither side can seize he upper hand, with Dante's tactical brilliance stretched to to limits in countering the time-space manipulations of the Silent King. The stalemate is broken only when a Tyranid splinter fleet enters orbit, forcing the two armies to breal off hostilities and fight the common foe. The impromptu alliance proves to be the Tyranids undoing. Following the final battle at Devil's Crag, Dante and the Silent King go their separate ways, both forces now too batteworn to guarantee victory over the other, and, at least for the BAs, the idea of turning on those they has so recently fought alongside, a rather distasteful one."
Pg 16 C: BA
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Post by: Brother Coa
Melissia wrote:Brother Coa wrote:What's the most idiotic thing you have ever saw of heard in 40k?
The entirety for the fluff for the Sons of Malice.
They sacrificed Ordo Xenos Inquisitor to the Emperor and then eat it for good luck? This must be the most horrifying fluff ever... 
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Post by: Shayden
Commisar Von Humps wrote:... Really though, i think it is probably the Horus thing. Humanity was thrown into a 10k year and onward conflict with probably the greatest mortal and imortal evil to ever exist. Made for a great game and dozens of books though .
I say the same thing about the Star Wars prequels!
On a serious note, I would have to say either The Horus Heresy (the event, not the books), and anything Matt Ward gets his slimy hands on.
EDIT: No wait! I remember this one Imperial Guard commander named Kubrick Chenkov! http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Kubrik_Chenkov Why the guardsmen don't mutiny is beyond me.
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Post by: purplefood
Because, he is a scary badass... sorry psychopath not badass.
Seriously though if you were under the command of a guy who could send millions to their death and still sleep well at night wouldn't you have second thoughts in taking him on?
Not only that but he would probably send twice the amount of people at you to take you down.
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Post by: Jaon
Space Puppies.
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Post by: Laodamia
Kanluwen wrote:
I already answered this.
The power of positive thinking allowed Wazdakka to destroy a Warlord Titan by driving at speed off a cliff.
Wazdakka read "The Secret". So should you!
Positive thinking...
There is a big difference between making a bike go faster because it is red and making said bike jump 45 meters high and smash through half a dozen layers of void shields and a ceramite armor plating the thickness of a wall.
Nonsense. Orks are nonsense.
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Post by: tarnish
Laodamia wrote:
There is a big difference between making a bike go faster because it is red and making said bike jump 45 meters high and smash through half a dozen layers of void shields and a ceramite armor plating the thickness of a wall.
Nonsense. Orks are nonsense.
To be fair, there was a cliff but yearh its... a bit much...
read the story and he catches fire from penetrating the void fields and then hits the cockpit, killing left and right. his bike is a monster i might add, easily 3 times the size of a normal one with anti tank guns. but still.... its a bit much.
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Post by: xXSir MontyXx
tarnish wrote:Laodamia wrote:
There is a big difference between making a bike go faster because it is red and making said bike jump 45 meters high and smash through half a dozen layers of void shields and a ceramite armor plating the thickness of a wall.
Nonsense. Orks are nonsense.
To be fair, there was a cliff but yearh its... a bit much...
read the story and he catches fire from penetrating the void fields and then hits the cockpit, killing left and right. his bike is a monster i might add, easily 3 times the size of a normal one with anti tank guns. but still.... its a bit much.
Ork's, Tau, and Necrons will always be a bit much for me. However they all have their place in this universe. No matter how small (Tau)
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Post by: BeefCakeSoup
ChrisWWII wrote:Fury_00011 wrote:The tau making an alliance with the dark eldar ouch!
I thought that actually worked. Showed how horribly naive the Tau are.
It happens...
The Emperor destroyed an entire Legion because he thought they had turned on him. Only to find out later the warnings sent were true and Horus had really betrayed him.
Is he naive to a fault?
Even in real life we make mistakes, Adolf Hitler was time magazines man of the year at one point... Later we found out just how big a mistake that was.
When facing an unending horde of tyranids you look for allies! When the Dark Eldar emerged from the webway offering their help the Tau had every reason to trust them. They were a highly intelligent race that looked like humans and had weapons to help out. For obvious reasons they knew the Dark Eldar weren't helping the Nids so they gave em a shot. When the Dark Eldar asked for something as civilized as a cultural exchange the Tau readily agreed. Pretty honest mistake imo.
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Post by: Henners91
purplefood wrote:Because, he is a scary badass... sorry psychopath not badass.
Seriously though if you were under the command of a guy who could send millions to their death and still sleep well at night wouldn't you have second thoughts in taking him on?
Not only that but he would probably send twice the amount of people at you to take you down.
Since he leads from the front I wonder why on earth he isn't fragged.
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Post by: NagothDaCleaver
Melissia wrote:Brother Coa wrote:What's the most idiotic thing you have ever saw of heard in 40k?
The entirety for the fluff for the Sons of Malice.
Completely Agree.
I'll take it a step further though and say most if not all of the background material created for "Renegade Marines" is complete crap. Especially the blurbs in the Chaos Space Marine codex. (Huron and the Redcorsair's are the one renegade sect I like)
The worst one, to me, is The Purge
"They despise life in all its forms"
Really, Purge? The Necrons already exist and they are much better at hating all life than you, because they are not alive.
Also, their insignia:
This, as well as a little of their fluff, makes it seem as though they are linked to Nurgle. But Nurgle in no way shape or form hates all life. Nurgle loves life, death only serves him in the form of decay and that doesn't offer him nearly as much as all of the human emotion from misery, despair and sloth.
And the Purge are also supposed to be responsible for killing 14,000,000,000+ Imperial citizens... really?
Even in 40k terms that's alot of folks. These jerks would have been hunted down mercilessly by the Imperium and annihilated.
I will admit that I am incredibly biased though. I wish they never would have gone back to the proliferation of random "Renegade" Marines and would have just left Chaos Space Marines with the original 9 Traitor Legions and the only real force of renegade Marines being those that follow Huron Blackheart.
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Post by: samtheking
ShaiAhlude wrote:Matt Ward's fluff.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
I agree with is as a whole
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Post by: goblet270
The fact that a tau ethereal exposed himself in a warzone and was beaten by a single midget with a sniper rifle (ratling, described in the ig codex)
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Post by: purplefood
Henners91 wrote:purplefood wrote:Because, he is a scary badass... sorry psychopath not badass.
Seriously though if you were under the command of a guy who could send millions to their death and still sleep well at night wouldn't you have second thoughts in taking him on?
Not only that but he would probably send twice the amount of people at you to take you down.
Since he leads from the front I wonder why on earth he isn't fragged.
His is reported to have a rather scary side arm... people whisper about it and everything...
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Post by: Psienesis
Even in real life we make mistakes, Adolf Hitler was time magazines man of the year at one point... Later we found out just how big a mistake that was.
The "Man of the Year" vote from Time magazine does not base its review on the morality of the subject, but simply on the terms of "what one individual in the past year has caused the biggest effect on the world as a whole"... it would be very hard to argue that, in the years of WW2, there was no other man for that slot than Hitler. Every other major world character at the time rose in reaction to Hitler.
In short, Time magazine wasn't celebrating Hitler or even honoring him, simply pointing out that this one guy was responsible for turning the world on its head.
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Post by: Roadkill Zombie
I would say the most idiotic thing I've seen in 40k was the so called Tyranid invasion that ate the Squats. It wasn't even storyline driven. It was anti-creativity driven.
It doesn't really work as an explanation of what happened to them because the Squat Homeworlds covered a very large part of the Galaxy. Any hive fleet that would have been able to eat that many worlds would have certainly drawn the attention of the Imperium and it would certainly have been enough Tyranids to eat a large portion of the Imperium too.
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Post by: Kommissar Kel
Of Necrons and man: Someone about a page ago thought that the Necrons were fighting alongside the BA/allowing them to defend pylons; that is, and purplefood pointed out, not this story. But it is, however a true bit of fluff on a different set of planets: Cadia. There is an abundance of Necron pylons/tech on Cadia and it's surrounding systems, that is what keeps the Cadian gate and eye of terror in place/in check; the Necrons know that their are humans on Cadia, and know that those humans are defending the pylons from Chaos; they allow it(and during the Eye of terror campaign/Abaddons 13th BC, actually helped to defend some despite being on the side of the "Forces of Choas/Disorder"). This whole bit makes sense, honestly; the necrons are free from having to fight the IOM on/around cadia to reclaim their tech as they know the IOM will defend it to the man: which is all the necrons need of it.
Very little of the fluff really irks me: BA/Necron Bromance is one of them, As is Space Wolf recruitment(They don't necessarily recruit young enough, and in fact most of them seem to have been recruited far too old). Finally is Alpharius-Omegon: most that have defended it to me cite the whole "1 soul in 2 bodies" which does not address my issue with their having been 21 Primarch bodies(I can buy the 1 soul, it is the 2 bodies I hold issue with).
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Post by: purplefood
Hang on...
What did i point out?
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Post by: NagothDaCleaver
purplefood wrote:Hang on...
What did i point out?
It was actually Revenent Reiko that pointed it out
27391
Post by: purplefood
Oh well then...
That's much better.
Unless he was arguing against me, in which case he is totally wrong and all.
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Post by: Noisy_Marine
Brother Coa wrote:What's the most idiotic thing you have ever saw of heard in 40k?
To me it's the Taros campaign. The amount of disorganization between the Imperial troops was so great that mid-eval army could defeat them. And they even have Space Marines that they use completely wrong...
After that, I suppose Eldar in DoW II ( first one ). Instead of coming to Thule and asking for help - they do everything to doom Human worlds. In the end Imperial defeat Tyranids, Orks and Eldar... And they do that without using half of their chapter...
Actually the way the Eldar acted in DoW 2 makes sense from an Eldar PoV. Remember the Eldar would kill billions of humans to save a handful of Eldar. That's what they try to do in DoW 2. Their problem is they didn't bring enough fire power, and they brought out the Avatar too late.
Anyway, I think the whole idea of Grey Knight Purifiers is silly. They are GK's that are even more pure ad incorruptible than regular GK's. But all Grey Knights are supposed to be pure and incorruptible. Also, the whole Bloodtide bit annoys me. Killing SoB should never be part of the GK's plan.
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Post by: Kommissar Kel
Purple: I am just used to you pointing out that The necron/BA bromance was what it was.
Also I just assume it is you when someone points out that things are not what the false hype makes them out to be(when one actually reads the fluff).
Revnent Reiko: I am sorry for mis-attributing your contribution to another poster.
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Post by: purplefood
Right then...
Yeah alliance of convenience, got it.
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Post by: thenoobbomb
Declaring the Knights of blood renegade.
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Post by: Pilau Rice
Kanluwen wrote:
It's not "one man" who did it in a one on one fight with a Daemonic Primarch(and for the record: Mortarion? He was a pushover. The Primarchs had 'differing power levels' by all accounts, and Mortarion was pretty low on it).
You really don't like Mortarion do you Kan ?
Kanluwen wrote:
Mortarion was regularly beaten in the training cages by his own Marines.
Where did you get that from?
Mortarion might not have been the best combatant, but he certainly wasn't a push over.
Most idiotic thing? The Word Bearers and Night Lords being trusted to side with the loyalists on Istvaan V.
And the updated Grey Knights stuff
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Post by: xXSir MontyXx
purplefood wrote:Oh well then...
That's much better.
Unless he was arguing against me, in which case he is totally wrong and all.
this made me laugh.
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Post by: physcosamatic
NUFF SAID
37790
Post by: Hlaine Larkin mk2
thankfully Matt didn't smoke that extra joint when he submitted the codex... 0_o
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Post by: Revenent Reiko
Kommissar Kel wrote:Purple: I am just used to you pointing out that The necron/BA bromance was what it was.
Also I just assume it is you when someone points out that things are not what the false hype makes them out to be(when one actually reads the fluff).
Revnent Reiko: I am sorry for mis-attributing your contribution to another poster.
No worries dude, easily done, easily forgiven
xXSir MontyXx wrote:purplefood wrote:Oh well then...
That's much better.
Unless he was arguing against me, in which case he is totally wrong and all.
this made me laugh.
Me too!
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Post by: Swordwind
physcosamatic wrote:
NUFF SAID
This literally had me LOLing.
On topicness: I have to add one to the ' GKs murdering SoBs' list.
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Post by: Small, Far Away
The Space Puppies fighting the Dark Angels in Sons of Fenris. The Wolves are annoyed about their world being blockaded, but the Angels are not killing innocents, only those who fight back. Why did you fight them?
And, on the Puppy bashing, the Wolfven (sorry if I spelt that wrong)? Oh, come on. That's so ridiculously unoriginal, Space Marine Werewolves? It's rubbish!
Ok I'm done, my soapbox broke.
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Post by: purplefood
Unoriginal in what sense?
And in Sons of Fenris all the SW saw was the DA attacking one of the worlds under their protection, it's pretty stupid neither side tried to talk first but Da were more to blame there than anyone else.
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Post by: NagothDaCleaver
Small, Far Away wrote:That's so ridiculously unoriginal, Space Marine Werewolves?
Um...
Please tell me about the Space Marine Werewolf Vikings that were around before the Space Wolves.
GW uses themes from all over Fantasy, Sci Fi and Pop Culture.
Thus we have Space Marine Viking Werewolves, Space Marine Angel Vampires, a Primarch who is Batman/Colonel Kurtz, a Gaurdsman who is Rambo -the One Man Army, an Imperial guard unit that is The Dirty Dozen and lots of other references and themes.
40k is rife with the stuff and it is in most cases used quite well. Viking werewolf space marines is an excellent and quite original mix of themes, it combines 3 things i love.
Now not all people love these things, but there are many other armies out there and there is sure to be a theme that suits everyone.
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Post by: samtheking
Tau getting close to winning. thats a laugh.
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Post by: DarknessEternal
Pilau Rice wrote:
Most idiotic thing? The Word Bearers and Night Lords being trusted to side with the loyalists on Istvaan V.
The Word Bearers had been exemplary in service on the Crusade for the preceding 40 years. They had Imperial observers with them who found no faults even.
The Night Lords had already been declared renegades though, so no one's sure how that happened.
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Post by: ShatteredBlade
The Grey Knights little grey box that might save the Imperium or bring it to its knees. HERP DERP
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Post by: Pilau Rice
DarknessEternal wrote:Pilau Rice wrote:
Most idiotic thing? The Word Bearers and Night Lords being trusted to side with the loyalists on Istvaan V.
The Word Bearers had been exemplary in service on the Crusade for the preceding 40 years. They had Imperial observers with them who found no faults even.
The Night Lords had already been declared renegades though, so no one's sure how that happened.
But at a time when Primarchs are turning traitor your once best friend, who is now one of them, hands you a golden nugget you choose to ignore it. That's the stupid thing about it 
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Post by: RayvenQ
Fulgrim, for not thinking that there may be something a bit iffy about a talking sword.
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Post by: Pilau Rice
RayvenQ wrote:Fulgrim, for not thinking that there may be something a bit iffy about a talking sword.
I concur.
It was just a bit ... dumb.
I really liked the old way that Horus got Fulgrim on side, the novel really ruined it for me and seemed to cheapen Fulgrims corruption.
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Post by: JamesMclaren123
The third GK novel
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Post by: Fury_00011
RayvenQ wrote:Fulgrim, for not thinking that there may be something a bit iffy about a talking sword.
Yup I agree as well
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Post by: Pacific
KingDeath wrote:Some of the Imperial Armour whines are pretty silly. Oh noes, the Imperium loses a badly planned, underequiped crusade against a well prepared foe on Taros ( and no, bad luck played only a small part in this campaign, the lack of avaiable regiments and resources was more important)! Oh noes! The Siege of Vraks is so unrealistic because...erm...the Emprah's forces there need more than a bunch of Spessmehreens to win! /o\
- and my absolute favourite: "Let no good deed go unpunished, let no evil deed go unrewared"...*shudder*, poor Chaos players :(
Is that last one actually real?
I agree with you about the IA books, I think they are great and quite 'logical' for the most part. I thought the Taros campaign book showed well why the Imperium is gradually falling apart, it is just too big!
Brother Coa wrote:To me it's the Taros campaign. The amount of disorganization between the Imperial troops was so great that mid-eval army could defeat them. And they even have Space Marines that they use completely wrong...
I'm interested to know why you thought that? A lightning-strike orbital strike to get hold of the Imperial governor, and the jump pack equipped troops attacking the AA installation. Surely that is exactly how Space Marines would be used, they don't have the numbers for massive wars of attrition so they would have to be used where their fighting prowess can be most effective (i.e. in high priority missions)
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Post by: purplefood
JamesMclaren123 wrote:The third GK novel
It was a bit strange but i was okay with it...
I think most people would have objected to the 2nd one more...
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Post by: Brother Coa
Pacific wrote: Brother Coa wrote:To me it's the Taros campaign. The amount of disorganization between the Imperial troops was so great that mid-eval army could defeat them. And they even have Space Marines that they use completely wrong...
I'm interested to know why you thought that? A lightning-strike orbital strike to get hold of the Imperial governor, and the jump pack equipped troops attacking the AA installation. Surely that is exactly how Space Marines would be used, they don't have the numbers for massive wars of attrition so they would have to be used where their fighting prowess can be most effective (i.e. in high priority missions)
I am not talking about that, that was the only good use of SM. Except the first one - they are not assassins. You are sending assassin when you want Governor to be removed. They had more SM to use in the campaign, they didn't. They had more Guard Regiments on their way, they didn't wait. They didn't engage Tau fleet in space, even if Imperial ships where still superior than Tau then ( they are still now, but Tau have some new toys ). They didn't protect their flanks or supply convoys. They use Elysians to protect refinery, they are build for fast and short strikes not to defend fortified positions. And Tau had overwhelm them like 5:1, and they even hire Human mercenariness to fight them. Taros was everything that can go wrong during military operation. Tau have more luck with this thing than Allies on D-Day ( they pick day when in the same time Romel was away, Hitler was sleeping, weather was fine and when Panzer companies went from shore for maintenance ). Taros is the stupidest thing I have ever hear in Warhammer 40000, ok for Democles but Taros....  . Automatically Appended Next Post: Pacific wrote:
I agree with you about the IA books, I think they are great and quite 'logical' for the most part. I thought the Taros campaign book showed well why the Imperium is gradually falling apart, it is just too big!
Except for that victory and Democles, Tau have nothing. Imperial victories: Gravalax Incident, Nimbosa Crusade, Zeist Campaign, Kronus campaign, Kaurava campaign, Targa, Lagan. And the fact that a minor Hive fleet Gorgon cause so much damage to Tau ( everal Tau trading partners, Sha'draig, Ka'mais ( where they invited Necrons to party), Roksh, Several Tau trading fleets in the system, secret Tau listening post on Roksh XVI ) It was finally stooped at Kel'shan, with the help from the IMPERIUM, and they beat it even Imperium had "gradually fall apart". I can't even imagine Tau engaging Behemoth or Levithian...
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Post by: ChrisWWII
Pacific wrote:
I agree with you about the IA books, I think they are great and quite 'logical' for the most part. I thought the Taros campaign book showed well why the Imperium is gradually falling apart, it is just too big!
I generally like Imperial Armor. I liked Siege of Vraks. However, Taros I still hold is ridiculous, and the Tau were lucky as hell. The Imperium knows the Tau's biggest advantage in space is their small craft, so why did they engage the Tau in a situation that made their defenses against small craft weaker? More importantly, the Imperium had space superiority (if not air). How hard would it have been to track where the Tau were going from space and then blast their air bases from low orbit? And the Mantas! Why did the Imperial never try to intercept the Mantas?
Not to mention some of the things were also bad. A squad of Storm Troopers being wiped out by a single Tau turret? I do admit that the Tau were intelligent, and used their advantage of speed and manuverability to the utmost, however I can't help but feel that the Imperials were just being stupid.
I'm interested to know why you thought that? A lightning-strike orbital strike to get hold of the Imperial governor, and the jump pack equipped troops attacking the AA installation. Surely that is exactly how Space Marines would be used, they don't have the numbers for massive wars of attrition so they would have to be used where their fighting prowess can be most effective (i.e. in high priority missions)
THe initial use of Space Marines was appropriate. An assassin was unavailable at the time, so they used Space Marines, not expecting the Tau to be there in such force. They used Marines to take out the missile silo, also entirerly appropriate. However, once the main battle was joined, they never used the Marines. They could have used the Thunderhawks to engage the Mantas, at least. They could have used the Marines to clear the mountain the Kroot held instead of sending in waves of Guardsmen to get slaughtered. They could have used the Marines like the Tau used their raiding forces to hit enemy airbases and fuel reserves. Yes, the Tau had the advantage in that they weren't holding their ground, but the Imperium had to have known where Tau instillations were, just from orbital scans.
I mean, Operation Koronet...don't you think that would have been PERFECT for the Marines? And the assassination attempt? Why just send an Eversor and a couple Storm Trooper squads when you have some 3 odd companies of Marines hanging out with you? The imperium didn't use its available assets to their full potential, I think this is clear.
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Post by: Harriticus
#1: BA and Necron teamup
#2: BA and Necron Teamup
#3: BA and Necron Teamup
#4: Mortarion being owned by Draigo
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Post by: Samus_aran115
The fact that Chaos hasn't defeated the empire yet is the most idiotic thing. They have the resources, the power and the will, yet they get metaphorically curbstomped every time >
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Post by: Brother Coa
Samus_aran115 wrote:The fact that Chaos hasn't defeated the empire yet is the most idiotic thing. They have the resources, the power and the will, yet they get metaphorically curbstomped every time >
It's a well known phrase old as hell: "Bad guys always lose"
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Post by: Sir Pseudonymous
Samus_aran115 wrote:The fact that Chaos hasn't defeated the empire yet is the most idiotic thing. They have the resources, the power and the will, yet they get metaphorically curbstomped every time >
They're the only faction smaller and more insignificant than Space Marines, and most of their efforts are directed against one another in fratricidal war or personal power struggles.
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Post by: xXSir MontyXx
Brother Coa wrote:Samus_aran115 wrote:The fact that Chaos hasn't defeated the empire yet is the most idiotic thing. They have the resources, the power and the will, yet they get metaphorically curbstomped every time >
It's a well known phrase old as hell: "Bad guys always lose"
From a GW perspective they obviously need them to lose. However from a fluff perspective Chaos has the galaxy right where it wants it. I honestly don't believe the gods of chaos wanted Horus to win.......
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Post by: Brother Coa
You know what would be the most idiotic thing in 40k if ever happened? Bar on some Hive World. Two men are sitting and drinking... The third one comes in and they ask him to join them ( since there is no more room at the bar because the bar is crowded ). Guy 1: Hello friend, what can I get you? Guy 3: Nothing thanks, I just need a information... Guy 2: What friend? Guy 3: Where is nearest Amninistratinum office, I want to sing as a local clerc. Guy 1: Good for you, we can never have to much of these guys. Say, why did you want to become a clerk? Guy 3: I just wanted to run away from the Guard, I have weapons and war. In fact - I am allergic to it. Guy 2: Oh, that's nothing strange here. Lot's of folks coming here from the frontier worlds to seek peace and to get away from all that fighting. Guy 1: Praise the Emperor for leading them here, in his name... Then the two guys drink the beer in one second. After that the first guy ask the new guy... Guy 1: Say, new guy. What world are you from? Guy 3: Oh, I am a Cadian...
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Post by: JamesMclaren123
purplefood wrote:JamesMclaren123 wrote:The third GK novel
It was a bit strange but i was okay with it...
I think most people would have objected to the 2nd one more...
I quite liked the 2nd one, i thought the idea of battleing a deamon infested STC was a good idea, but i think Ben Counter could have picked something slightly more inconspicuous (i hope thats how you spell it) the the pure titan STC and it was increadibly movie marine but hey. 
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Post by: purplefood
JamesMclaren123 wrote:purplefood wrote:JamesMclaren123 wrote:The third GK novel
It was a bit strange but i was okay with it... I think most people would have objected to the 2nd one more...
I quite liked the 2nd one, i thought the idea of battleing a deamon infested STC was a good idea, but i think Ben Counter could have picked something slightly more inconspicuous (i hope thats how you spell it) the the pure titan STC and it was increadibly movie marine but hey.
I think people disliked the bit where he tricked the STC into thinking it was a daemon so that he could kill it with his daemon killing powers...
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Post by: JamesMclaren123
purplefood wrote:JamesMclaren123 wrote:purplefood wrote:JamesMclaren123 wrote:The third GK novel
It was a bit strange but i was okay with it...
I think most people would have objected to the 2nd one more...
I quite liked the 2nd one, i thought the idea of battleing a deamon infested STC was a good idea, but i think Ben Counter could have picked something slightly more inconspicuous (i hope thats how you spell it) the the pure titan STC and it was increadibly movie marine but hey.
I think people disliked the bit where he tricked the STC into thinking it was a daemon so that he could kill it with his daemon killing powers...
yeah that bit was quite naff but i think the book as a whole was better than that small lack of judgment in the trickery department
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Post by: purplefood
I haven't read it...
Read the other 2 though...
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Post by: Revenent Reiko
It's quite good (my favourite out of the 3 anyway, the last one sucks ),
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Post by: purplefood
Revenent Reiko wrote:It's quite good (my favourite out of the 3 anyway, the last one sucks ),
It is still a bit dodgy...
If it was possessed then it shouldn't matter and his daemon killing schtick should work.
If it wasn't possessed then it shouldn't work no matter how hard it believes it is possessed.
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Post by: Revenent Reiko
purplefood wrote:Revenent Reiko wrote:It's quite good (my favourite out of the 3 anyway, the last one sucks ),
It is still a bit dodgy...
If it was possessed then it shouldn't matter and his daemon killing schtick should work.
If it wasn't possessed then it shouldn't work no matter how hard it believes it is possessed.
Yeah i know, theres definitely some ambiguity in that
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Post by: purplefood
Revenent Reiko wrote:purplefood wrote:Revenent Reiko wrote:It's quite good (my favourite out of the 3 anyway, the last one sucks ),
It is still a bit dodgy...
If it was possessed then it shouldn't matter and his daemon killing schtick should work.
If it wasn't possessed then it shouldn't work no matter how hard it believes it is possessed.
Yeah i know, theres definitely some ambiguity in that
And that is why the people hate it so...
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Post by: Revenent Reiko
Myself included, even a throw away explanation at the end would have removed some of the hate IMO, but no...
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Post by: Sir Pseudonymous
JamesMclaren123 wrote:purplefood wrote:JamesMclaren123 wrote:The third GK novel
It was a bit strange but i was okay with it...
I think most people would have objected to the 2nd one more...
I quite liked the 2nd one, i thought the idea of battleing a deamon infested STC was a good idea, but i think Ben Counter could have picked something slightly more inconspicuous (i hope thats how you spell it) the the pure titan STC and it was increadibly movie marine but hey.
The Grey Knights books were: "Alaric the SUPER IDEALISTIC INDIVIDUAL Gray Knight fights daemons with the powers of FRIENDSHIP AND IMAGINATION!"
The first has him defeat the "mile tall daemon prince" by screaming a string of gibberish at it, which he memorized from the transcription of a traitor's mad gibberings (even ignoring the "how did he memorize the whole thing, because she was killed in the middle of saying it and it was stated to contain sounds that a human mouth couldn't form in the first place, and so couldn't actually be transcribed on account of there not being symbols to represent them" thing, he decided that the ramblings of a warp-maddened traitor were a good thing to memorize?), and in the second he kills an STC by pretending it's a daemon so hard that he convinces it to pretend to be a daemon too. I didn't bother reading the third one.
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Post by: Revenent Reiko
Sir Pseudonymous wrote:JamesMclaren123 wrote:purplefood wrote:JamesMclaren123 wrote:The third GK novel
It was a bit strange but i was okay with it... I think most people would have objected to the 2nd one more...
I quite liked the 2nd one, i thought the idea of battleing a deamon infested STC was a good idea, but i think Ben Counter could have picked something slightly more inconspicuous (i hope thats how you spell it) the the pure titan STC and it was increadibly movie marine but hey.
The Grey Knights books were: "Alaric the SUPER IDEALISTIC INDIVIDUAL Gray Knight fights daemons with the powers of FRIENDSHIP AND IMAGINATION!" The first has him defeat the "mile tall daemon prince" by screaming a string of gibberish at it, which he memorized from the transcription of a traitor's mad gibberings (even ignoring the "how did he memorize the whole thing, because she was killed in the middle of saying it and it was stated to contain sounds that a human mouth couldn't form in the first place, and so couldn't actually be transcribed on account of there not being symbols to represent them" thing, he decided that the ramblings of a warp-maddened traitor were a good thing to memorize?), and in the second he kills an STC by pretending it's a daemon so hard that he convinces it to pretend to be a daemon too. I didn't bother reading the third one.
Im not pretending the GK novels weren't fanboy fiction, but: We just tried to hammer out the inconsistencies of the 2nd book if you didnt read it. And dont read the 3rd one, trust me, its not worth it.
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Post by: purplefood
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Post by: Kanluwen
Alaric: The Grey Knights' very own Hawkeye.
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Post by: Sir Pseudonymous
Revenent Reiko wrote:the 'string of gibberish' was the Deamons true name, which (when spoken so soon after his entry into this plane) destroyed him/it.
it would have been transcribed phonetically, thats the point of an alphabet, you can use letters to make sounds.
the 'ramblings of a warp-maddened traitor' were exactly the opposite of that! The whole point was that she wasn't a traitor but only Alaric realised that and trusted her.it.
Technically repeating it scared it into laying down so he could poke it with a meter of pointy metal that had somehow managed to kill it before.
Something can't be phonetically transcribed if it contains sounds outside the system's description, and the Inquisitor was killed before finishing it regardless; in all likelihood such a thing would have been transcribed merely as "[unintelligible gibbering]".
Given the limited knowledge he possessed and his in-universe perspective, there was exactly no reason to trust her at that point. Automatically Appended Next Post: purplefood wrote:Super idealistic?
He's idealistic by in-universe standards, especially by Space Marine standards, and even more so by Gray Knight standards. Also the whole "fighting daemons with the power of FRIENDSHIP AND IMAGINATION" thing. It's like "My Little Gray Knight: Friendship is Magical".
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Post by: gh05tdemon
Taros campaign... anyone with half a brain could have lead the imperium to victory but instead the imperial commanders make a dumb mistake after dumb mistake.
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Post by: Revenent Reiko
Sir Pseudonymous wrote:
Technically repeating it scared it into laying down so he could poke it with a meter of pointy metal that had somehow managed to kill it before.
Something can't be phonetically transcribed if it contains sounds outside the system's description, and the Inquisitor was killed before finishing it regardless; in all likelihood such a thing would have been transcribed merely as "[unintelligible gibbering]".
Given the limited knowledge he possessed and his in-universe perspective, there was exactly no reason to trust her at that point.
There is a reason i put that in a Spoiler tab. it is a Spoiler for people who haven't read it.
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Post by: purplefood
Revenent Reiko wrote:Sir Pseudonymous wrote:
Technically repeating it scared it into laying down so he could poke it with a meter of pointy metal that had somehow managed to kill it before.
Something can't be phonetically transcribed if it contains sounds outside the system's description, and the Inquisitor was killed before finishing it regardless; in all likelihood such a thing would have been transcribed merely as "[unintelligible gibbering]".
Given the limited knowledge he possessed and his in-universe perspective, there was exactly no reason to trust her at that point.
There is a reason i put that in a Spoiler tab. it is a Spoiler for people who haven't read it.
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Post by: Revenent Reiko
purplefood wrote:Revenent Reiko wrote:Sir Pseudonymous wrote:
Technically repeating it scared it into laying down so he could poke it with a meter of pointy metal that had somehow managed to kill it before.
Something can't be phonetically transcribed if it contains sounds outside the system's description, and the Inquisitor was killed before finishing it regardless; in all likelihood such a thing would have been transcribed merely as "[unintelligible gibbering]".
Given the limited knowledge he possessed and his in-universe perspective, there was exactly no reason to trust her at that point.
There is a reason i put that in a Spoiler tab. it is a Spoiler for people who haven't read it.
I stand corrected on that point purplefood.
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Post by: Jordan
Getting this bad boy back on topic:
Imperial Armor fluff is some of the stupidest crap I've ever read. Can we get an Imperial victory that doesn't make King Pyrrhus look like he went 99 and 1? And what the is up with treating the Elysians like a punching bag? They lost to Tau and Orks? In a lightening raid? Their specialty? Really? Y'know, taking monstrous casualties, fine. Airborne units typically go unsupported and a lot of people die. That fits their fluff to a T. But come on, Forge World, throw the Elysians a bone and give them a hard-fought victory and not this endless string of BS defeats. The way they write this garbage, it seems like they can't even put their pants on the right way!
Have you guys read the little blurb about 'famous' Elysian regiments? Two thirds of them are listed as having been wiped to a man in battle. I can't be the only one pissed at that.
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Post by: earth-star
please tell me I'm not the only on who thinks this.
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Post by: Hlaine Larkin mk2
earth-star wrote: please tell me I'm not the only on who thinks this.
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Post by: Skalk Bloodaxe
Has anyone ever wondered why Latin is so prevalent in the 41st Millennium?
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Post by: Grass4hopper
Because the Ultramarines are the best at everything, including speaking dead languages.
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Post by: UselessSage
I am now half way through the 3rd Soul Drinkers book. Imma update my opinion here.
Perhaps the most idiotic thing in WH40k are the Soul Drinkers novels.
I will keep soldiering on though. I made it all the way through Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy, I can do this.
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Post by: thenoobbomb
samtheking wrote:Tau getting close to winning. thats a laugh.
yes, it is.
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Post by: IvanTih
Kanluwen wrote:*snip*
The round did hit the Cardinal.
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Post by: Brother Coa
The fact that Inquisition is watching everyone and that no one is watching over Inquisition?
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Post by: SagesStone
It's actually kind of explained in the Inquisition trilogy a tiny bit. In it it basically said to pretty much everyone the Inquistion they know is just the Ordo Hereticus. Ordo Malleus apparently look over the Ordo Hereticus Inquisitors from time to time with the Hereticus Inquisitors not even aware of their existence. I guess the Inquisitor Lords from the Ordo Malleus would watch over the normal Malleus Inquisitors as it mentioned something about the Inquisition having many hidden circles within itself.
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Post by: purplefood
Brother Coa wrote:The fact that Inquisition is watching everyone and that no one is watching over Inquisition?
The Inquisition watches itself...
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Post by: Brother Coa
Then who is watching the Inquisition who watch over Inquisition?
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Post by: Nerivant
Brother Coa wrote:Then who is watching the Inquisition who watch over Inquisition?
The Ordos Inquisitus.
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Post by: purplefood
Brother Coa wrote:Then who is watching the Inquisition who watch over Inquisition?
The Inquisition does that to.
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Post by: Brother Coa
So the Inquisition is watching over Inquisition, who watch over Inquisition.
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Post by: purplefood
Brother Coa wrote:So the Inquisition is watching over Inquisition, who watch over Inquisition.
Yeah pretty much...
Although they are also watched by the Inquisition...
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Post by: Brother Coa
purplefood wrote:Brother Coa wrote:So the Inquisition is watching over Inquisition, who watch over Inquisition.
Yeah pretty much...
Although they are also watched by the Inquisition...
Now I am confused
Who is watching over that Inquisition?
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Post by: purplefood
Brother Coa wrote:purplefood wrote:Brother Coa wrote:So the Inquisition is watching over Inquisition, who watch over Inquisition.
Yeah pretty much...
Although they are also watched by the Inquisition...
Now I am confused
Who is watching over that Inquisition?
The Inquisition...
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Post by: Brother Coa
See why is this so idiotic....
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Post by: purplefood
Brother Coa wrote:See why is this so idiotic....
Not really... pretty sensible, everyone watches each other so if anyone goes renegade they can kill them. Thud by Terry Pratchett wrote: "Who watches the Watchmen?"
"I do"
"Ahh but who watches you?"
"I do that too"
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Post by: Psienesis
Basically, outside of the Inquisition, *no one* watches over the Inquisition. That is their mandate from the God-Emperor, Himself. The Inquisition holds 2 people free from suspicion of heresy: The Emperor and the Adeptus Custodes. Every other man, woman, and child, from Chapter Master to Planetary Governor down to the lowliest slave, is subject to the Inquisition's authority.
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Post by: Juvieus Kaine
I always find that when the Tau spot a potential ally that helps them out, gives them massive praise, then find out they've been doubelcrossed the horrible nasty gruesome way
Case 1): Dark Eldar lead by Urien help fend off Nids I think with the Tau. Tau are happy. Urien asks for people, Tau oblige. Next battle the DE turn up with Blue Wracks and Grotesques
Case 2): Tau vs Nids again IIRC. Necrons wake up and kill the Nids. Tau have a party. Necrons guass everyone
Oh and anyone who says Orky things are idiotic... you can't see the funny side of it Wazdakka taking out a Warlord Titan by driving off a cliff and flying through the cockpit ON FIRE and killing the crew is pure genius. In fact almost all the stuff in the Ork Codex is pure genius.
Speaking of Orks, the Kastorel-Novem IA. Seriously Imperium, you dun goof'd.
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Post by: ChrisWWII
Skalk Bloodaxe wrote:Has anyone ever wondered why Latin is so prevalent in the 41st Millennium?
Because they're not speaking Latin. It being rendered as Latin is a translation convention. Basically, they're speaking their language of High Gothic, and it's translated into pseudo-Latin as that's how High Gothic sounds to your average Imperial Citizen for the ease of the players.
Similarly, they speak 'English' because of the same convention, so that we can understand the Imperials talking, and get some kind of feel for who they are.
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Post by: Brother Coa
To me one more example was Magnus way of warning the Emperor about Horus...
When he was breaching Emperor's defense on Terra's Webway, he didn't think for a moment that would open a warp rift and that daemons will attack Terra...
Or to simply round up all Thousand Sons and go to Terra directly...
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Post by: ChrisWWII
He didn't know about the Golden Throne and the Webway. He was desperate to get a message to the Emperor as quickly as possible, and going there himself would take too long. He din't know his message would screw up the Emperor's plans and piss him off that much.
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Post by: Jordan
ChrisWWII wrote:He didn't know about the Golden Throne and the Webway. He was desperate to get a message to the Emperor as quickly as possible, and going there himself would take too long. He din't know his message would screw up the Emperor's plans and piss him off that much.
In hindsight, letting Horus and the other primarchs know what he was up to probably could have saved the galaxy being turned on it's head.
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Post by: ChrisWWII
As they say, hindsight is 20/20. A lot of things turn out they could be easily prevented when people look back at them.
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Post by: Hlaine Larkin mk2
the biggest mistake made ever was naming horus as warmaster
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Post by: JamesMclaren123
Hlaine Larkin mk2 wrote:the biggest mistake made ever was naming horus as warmaster
True that
"here horus have the keys to do pretty much what you want... oh "
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Post by: Valkarie
The tau trying to ally with the dark eldar and wondering why it didnt workout.
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Post by: purplefood
Valkarie wrote:The tau trying to ally with the dark eldar and wondering why it didnt workout.
That awkward moment when you realise Tau are incredibly naive...
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Post by: DarknessEternal
Brother Coa wrote:To me one more example was Magnus way of warning the Emperor about Horus...
The Heresy books establish quite clearly that Magnus is the Emperor Junior in terms of arrogance. He's always right, no matter how wrong he is.
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Post by: Jordan
purplefood wrote:Valkarie wrote:The tau trying to ally with the dark eldar and wondering why it didnt workout.
That awkward moment when you realise Tau are incredibly naive...
I have to pity the poor Water Caste suck whose job it is to parlay with the most terrible and violent races in the galaxy. "No, man, the Orks are totally cool, now go negotiate!"
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Post by: xXSir MontyXx
Jordan wrote:purplefood wrote:Valkarie wrote:The tau trying to ally with the dark eldar and wondering why it didnt workout.
That awkward moment when you realise Tau are incredibly naive...
I have to pity the poor Water Caste suck whose job it is to parlay with the most terrible and violent races in the galaxy. "No, man, the Orks are totally cool, now go negotiate!"
Im sure if the Tyranid didnt just eat the first tau planet they saw, they would have tried to negotiate with them to.
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Post by: thenoobbomb
Yeah, ofcourse!
Allying with Orks is a good idea..
They surely would have the biggest army IF it worked.
I already see it:
WAAAAGH! Shas'el Gzagkull... Awsome.
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Post by: Garviel
i think its daft the way the whole fluff for the galaxy has a whole has turned out.
the whole fate of the galaxy is on the sharpest of knife-edges and almost every race has something up its sleeve ready to give it a nudge.
with new codexes coming out every now and then there is an ever shifting view and it just annoys me as the timeline isn't progressing and yet the galaxy is. surely if we're essentially stuck 'on pause' then there must be a static list of events that are currently happening.
do you think GW has a list of everything that is going on? That would be a good bit of fluff to have.
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Post by: xXSir MontyXx
Yeah it seems that the ad mech and Hive mind work tirelessly to provide their armies with new troops when they are frozen in time.
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Post by: Revenent Reiko
Garviel wrote:do you think GW has a list of everything that is going on? That would be a good bit of fluff to have.
Bwahaha! You think they think that far ahead??!!
on a serious note, it would be cool to see where they think everything is heading/what is happening where.
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The emporer 
Rules!!