Hey guys simple question really if you could rewrite 40k fluff which one traitor legion would you turn loyal and vice versa, feel free to be as biased as possible and indepth with your answers .

For me Id have the Night Lords as loyalists mainly as I'd love to see a the pretty much agnostic chaotic neutral Night Lords being used as the imperium's black ops legion. Violently cleansing and inciting fear just for the sheer joy of it, I just picture a Night Lords assault marine with lightning claws infiltrating into a planetary governors living quarters grabbing him and bursting through the wall and flying into the air whilst terrifying this poor soul shouting stuff like "THERE IS NOTHING TO FEAR BUT FEAR ITSELF", before making a gorey example of him .

I'd also like to see the Salamanders as traitors with there affinity for flames and artifice I imagine they'd spend all of there time being pyromaniacs and forging really powerful daemon weapons, that and picturing a Salamander daemon prince who looks like hes part dragon is pretty damn cool.

These are pretty damn biased reasons based on simple preference, not on any underlying lore consequences so nobody say something really cheesy like I want the luna wolves to still be loyalists so the horus heresy never happened .

Salamanders as traitors would be fething awesome. The Thousand Sons would be the ones I'd like to have remained loyal, the book A Thousand Sons paints a really cool picture of what they were like as loyalists. I might start a brand new pre-heresy era Thousand Sons army because of it.

Theres a problem with this idea because a lot of my favorite fluff would not exist. For example, I would have had the Iron Hands become traitor, accepting Fulgrim's offer. When Fulgrim realizes what he's done, Ferrus kills him, believing him to be weak. Ferrus repents after killing his brother, but is possessed by the Daemon in Fulgrims sword. To balance the scales, The Death Guard would remain loyal, but Garro's story would never have happened as a result.

The Emperor's Children as loyal. The name says it all.

Thousand sons, because the Legion, and Mangus got screwed over.

To replace the sons they can take the ultra marines.

Thousand Sons in,
Space Wolves, out.

Ultramarines as nurgle marines would be funny. I always liked the alpha leigon it'd be cool to have them as loyalists.

I agree, I'd swap the wolves for the T-Sons; but the more interesting traitors would be the sallies. As a curve ball, I'd trade the sallies for... the Sons of Horus. Let be the Lorgarian heresy from here on out!

The Thousand Sons for sure based on what I read in Prospero Burns.

Blood Angels as the First Traitor Legion with Sanguinus as the Archtraitor would be really interesting. I'd like the Thousand Sons to remain loyal.

the problem with Tsons as loyalists is that the emporer banned psykers from legions.

how about the luna wolves? staying loyalist?

Or Alpha legion


as for loyal legions going traitor, BT would be cool as a chaos legion, sorta like word bearers I guess.

Dark Angels are already traitorous enough I think.

I'd love for the Death Guard to stay loyal. I'd probably get the Blood Angels to turn based on their current fluff, but I don't think at the time of the Heresy they would have turned.

The Salamanders would certainly be interesting, as has been mentioned.

The Raven Guard are pretty non-existent in the fluff and it would be interesting if they had been on the side of chaos.

well, rules-wise its also a question of what legion you want to damn to not ever have a codex and which one you want to bless with loyalist attention

i guess i would go with nightlords. they would be great as loyals. dark and nasty but efficient.
having ultramarines turn traitor would make for some delicious irony so ill go for that.

Ya id have to say 1000 sons, Sons of Horus, or Night Lords. Then there really are not any others I would like to see go traitors besides the ones that already did lol

Kasrkai wrote:Thousand Sons in,
Space Wolves, out.

+1. It seems quite fitting.

As much as the thousand sons didn't deserve to fall from grace, they make a more interesting traitor legion that the wolves would. They'd just be blue khorne bezerkers, although I'd love to see the spiky, mutated wolves.

What makes the Thousand Sons so compelling as traitors is that their fall was so tragic.

The sons for BA. I may ahve ahd BAs but I loved Loken and the humanity of Horus before Tempa and Erebus messed with him :(

I'd like Alpha Legion as loyalists. Not because of rules or anything like that. I'd like to see what would have happened if Alpha stayed loyal. DUN DUN DUN!

As far as loyalist going traitor. I don't want ultramarines, mainly cuz I play Chaos and I don't want them on my side. I'll take sallies though.

Iron Warriors as loyalist wouldnt change much but at least wed have some of our siege experts back.
blood angels as traitors would be interesting being traitors.

Wasn't there a thing about Alpha Legion only faking being Chaos Marines?

Either Thousand Sons or Night Lords Lyal
Dark Angels or Blood Angels traitor (Though BA would take the place of the Night Lords in general hating other chaos servants because of Horus killing Sanguinious and the reason they turned was because of the curse driving them al pretty much bat sh*t crazy)

Juvieus Kaine wrote:

Kasrkai wrote:Thousand Sons in,
Space Wolves, out.

+1. It seems quite fitting.

another +1 for this from me

Sons of Horus, that way there would be no heresy....

asimo77 wrote:

Juvieus Kaine wrote:

Kasrkai wrote:Thousand Sons in,
Space Wolves, out.

+1. It seems quite fitting.

another +1 for this from me

Here here +1 too!

Though they're not a true "traitor" chapter, I'd like to see the Soul Drinkers in-ish instead of out-ish

And I think Space Wolves splintering and having a traitor version chapter would be pretty sick

I would like all traitors to be loyal, and all loyalists to be traitor. Like the Dorn Heresy that B&C made up.

Picture related, it's a traitor version Imperial Fist. Not my artwork. Image linked as it is a bit gorey.

http://i53.tinypic.com/ng8w37.jpg

Raven Guard or White Scars turned traitor and either Night Lords or Alpha Legion stay loyal.

I'd actually say... Black Templar go Traitor they could white / black contrast against Grey Knight's turn it the big good vs the big evil...

For Traitor to loyal... 1k sons is probably the most reasonable.

-Sincerely Viri

Black Templars and Grey Knights are not Legions, and were not around during the Heresy (well the Grey Knights sort of were - bu tnot in any substantial numbers from whats known. The Black Templars? Not around until afterwards....

Luna Wolves should have stayed loyal (by the time they'd become sons of Horus the heresy seed had been planted)

Dark Angels can go traitor, half of them already have!

1k sons back in, but let the rest of the DA go traitor

Death Guard in because they look MUCH cooler without all the rot and plague. So they would replace the..... Space wolves.

Kasrkai wrote:Wasn't there a thing about Alpha Legion only faking being Chaos Marines?

Luna Wolves for Ultras.

The thousand sons ad space wolfs teaming up would be great. chaos can take the dark angels. thier aredy tainted.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Why dose every one hate the space wolfs there cool

becasue they are so close to chaos worship they probaly refer to the big E as the guy with those skulls

Hlaine Larkin mk2 wrote:becasue they are so close to chaos worship they probaly refer to the big E as the guy with those skulls

space wolves ? really ? do explain I havent read much of the 40k novel based lore out there so i imagine im missing out

it would actually make for a really unexpected plot twist if say, one of the less extreme chaos legions came back to the fold so to speak. having a hard time imagining the imperium running along with it though. but really, none of that will ever happen guys. stop dreaming and rack your bolter

Hlaine Larkin mk2 wrote:becasue they are so close to chaos worship they probaly refer to the big E as the guy with those skulls

Right, that's a radical and obscure view of the Space Wolves. Troll post.

I think Blood Angels would make great traitors.

Think about it, they could be either a Slaanesh or a Khorne-based legion.

Slaanesh would fit, considering that the Blood Angels view themselves as aristocratic and patrons of the arts, much as the Emperor's Children did. I can easily see them giving in to the Red Thirst as a medium of excess as well.

The same reasoning would also apply for Khorne. After all, a curse that forces you to drink blood is pretty much par for the course for the Blood God.

Pretty much the perfect fit!

As for a traitor turning loyalist... I think the Alpha Legion would be quite badass as a loyalist chapter. (Regardless of the rumors that suggest they already are!)

I like the cut of the Death Guard's jib. They were a no-nonsense legion that fought with WWI or Death Korps tacitics. Also, they didn't have the hubris of the other traitors. They didn't even paint their armour.

I am gonna take a bit of a different view here..... the DA (half) don't turn, and they (all DA and successor) are not the EMO Marines they are today about their "hunt for the fallen" etc.
At the death of their Primarch the Blood Angels all go crazy (crazier), and turn to Korne.....
I feel like the Death Guard got a raw deal on their trip through the warp.... so lets keep them loyal.

On the outside, there isn't much to change on a Space Wolf. Slap on a Mark of Khorne and TA-DA! Chaos Wolf.

I would have to go with either the sons or the night lords and the dark angels could take their place just cause of the mystery of why they didn't help at the siege of terra

mindfield wrote:

asimo77 wrote:

Juvieus Kaine wrote:

Kasrkai wrote:Thousand Sons in,
Space Wolves, out.

+1. It seems quite fitting.

another +1 for this from me

Here here +1 too!

+1 Here, thousand sons got the rough end of the stick fluff wise, never liked Ahriman personnally

Iron Warriors stay loyal, Imperial Fists go traitor. Nothing changes!

Another awesome thread by Chrono, I wish Angron had stayed loyal, I always thought he had noble intentions, just that the means (killing) became more important than the end (honor). Just my thoughts, especially after reading that short story about him right after the emperor took him away from that battle where all his men died.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
After........ somethign was the name of it, it was in Tales of Heresy, close to the end

I'd love to have had the Ultra's go traitor, and kept either the emperors children, or thousand sons.

ph34r wrote:I would like all traitors to be loyal, and all loyalists to be traitor. Like the Dorn Heresy that B&C made up.

Picture related, it's a traitor version Imperial Fist. Not my artwork. Image linked as it is a bit gorey.

http://i53.tinypic.com/ng8w37.jpg

What Dorn Heresy is that? Sounds intriguing.

Dark Angels turning would be good as they already have a basis for treachery in their fluff. plus nobody knows for sure whether The Lion was upto anyway.

I think Alpha Legion wouldn't really bring much to the table so I'd go for Word Bearers as in the present climate, they would be allowed to build all the monuments and shizzle they want now and worship ol' corpsy until the cows come home. I realise the current fluff would be more of a mess than a lego-brick toilet but it could be fun having them about.

plus they could explain Lorgars disappearance by saying he is searching for a cure or some other 'son crying whillst looking for a cure for his sick papa' kinda story.



also, when do the cows come home?

ph34r wrote:I would like all traitors to be loyal, and all loyalists to be traitor. Like the Dorn Heresy that B&C made up.

Picture related, it's a traitor version Imperial Fist. Not my artwork. Image linked as it is a bit gorey.

http://i53.tinypic.com/ng8w37.jpg

I had no idea that the Imperial Fists were into S&M.

People should read Age of Darkness. Some of the loyalists were not so loyal after all.

I would like to see maybe the Ultras or the DA go traitor...

Ultramarines because it'd be pretty cool to see an extremely disciplined chaos marine force, not that there aren't any right now, but still.

And DA because the whole keep secrets, shame shame shame, thing is kinda annoying. There are defectors in plenty of chapters, they're not that different... well okay maybe half their legion went traitor, still.... very emo-esque

Traitor turn loyal???

World Eaters!!! For the lolz! No seriously, world eaters... the imperium basically kills anyone who's turned traitor anyways, even if they repent they get shot, why not kill them all at once?

Or Alpha Legion, because the imperium needs some smart flexible thinking people! Rather than rigid codex humping smurfs.

xXSir MontyXx wrote:Death Guard in because they look MUCH cooler without all the rot and plague. So they would replace the..... Space wolves.

im with him they looked awesome and for traitor ultrasmurfs must go

I wish that Iron Warriors were still loyal and we swap them for
1: Evil Ordo Malleus ( Grey Knights ) ( Note: Not all of them )
2: Dark Angels. Translation: Evil angels = Chaos. Colour scheme should be a greenish black with a gold trim.

1K Sons as loyalists, and BA as CSM.

I would want the Night Lords to be loyalists and the ultras to be chaos.

The Emperor's Children had just as tragic a fall, in my mind, as the Thousand Sons, and Fulgrim (before his possession) was as noble and awesome a Primarch as you could hope to follow. If they were loyal and had Fulgrim to lead them, they could have made a huge difference.

As to loyalists as traitors, Russ, Corax, and Vulkan might as well have been. Gallivanting off when the Imperium needed them the most. Screw those guys.

Give the imperium death guard for the ultramarines... in my opinion the only redeeming thing for ultramarines is the movie.

undivided wrote:Luna Wolves for Ultras.

The Luna Wolves never turned traitor, read Galaxy in Flames. Oh and Dark Angels traitor for uhhh, Thouand Sons?

Emperor's Children remain loyal, replaced in Slaanesh worship by the White Scars.

Alpha legion to come back, switch with Ultra-marines... I don't know why i don't like them

Bromsy wrote:Emperor's Children remain loyal, replaced in Slaanesh worship by the White Scars.

How would White scars fit in terms of Slaanesh worship there not blatantly hedonistic or self fulfilling

Alpha Legion turned traitor for really noble reasons, so I'd take them back, and Thousand Sons were basically forced into heresy, it really wasn't their fault, so let's get them back too. I could easily see Wolves going to Chaos, as well as the rest of the Dark Angels.

Black Templars to Chaos allowing them to unleash their zeal on the rest of the Imperium that's just gone soft - and having to send the Crimson Fists to take wipe them out.. that'd be a great story.

Dark Angels to Chaos is also not out of possibility.. half their chapter may have already turned.

Chaos to Loyalist - Thousand Suns. They got forced into it and I'd love to see friendly spats between them and the Grey Knights.. HaHA!

I think it would be very neat to see a traitor legion repent and forsake Chaos to fight for the imperium once more. It wouldn't be easy of course, and they would have to know their lives would be forfeit if they so much as stepped on friendly soil, so they spend the rest of their existence fighting as unsung heroes. A Chaos fleet is suddenly stopped, a rising arch-heretic is suddenly silenced and his minions slain, a demonic outbreak is suddenly quelled. They redeemed traitors won't get glory or thanks from their bretheren, but they go about it anyway because it's right and even if their brother's will never forgive them, maybe the Emperor will. As far as who that legion would be, Alpha Marines might make the most sense.

Which loyal marines would be neat as turning traitor? I could see a few. It would be a pretty big lore change to see the Grey Knights had been a pawn of Tzeentch all along. They've probably killed more loyalists and innocents than most Chaos legions. Maybe Tzeentch corrupted their gene-seed, or maybe Tzeentch constantly whispered "advice" to them that sounded innocent. "Slaughter these innocents so no one finds out who you are... it's for the best." "Slaughter these Marines because one of them said something about Chaos, it's safest to bet they're all traitors.... it's for the best!" Stuff like that. And when they find out they've been coerced by Tzeentch, they erupt into a civil war. Some believe they must change, some believe what they are doing really is for the best, even if it was suggested by Tzeentch. I could see them going way overboard killing millions of innocents to kill one minor Chaos agent and thinking it's for the best.

Might or might not fit fluff, but would be some interesting developments either way.

1k Sons remaining Loyal would have been nice since they really were loyal. Also the Word Bearers given the fact they were sort of right all along!

World Eaters back and Ultras gone; because seeing Angron + Russ with the Space Wolves and World Eaters fighting side-by-side would be awe-inspiringly terrifying.

Apocros wrote:Which loyal marines would be neat as turning traitor? I could see a few. It would be a pretty big lore change to see the Grey Knights had been a pawn of Tzeentch all along. They've probably killed more loyalists and innocents than most Chaos legions. Maybe Tzeentch corrupted their gene-seed, or maybe Tzeentch constantly whispered "advice" to them that sounded innocent. "Slaughter these innocents so no one finds out who you are... it's for the best." "Slaughter these Marines because one of them said something about Chaos, it's safest to bet they're all traitors.... it's for the best!" Stuff like that. And when they find out they've been coerced by Tzeentch, they erupt into a civil war. Some believe they must change, some believe what they are doing really is for the best, even if it was suggested by Tzeentch. I could see them going way overboard killing millions of innocents to kill one minor Chaos agent and thinking it's for the best.

Pun intended?

All of them as traitors, but staggered enough that they could each be eradicated for it in turn without posing even the minor threat that simultaneous treason would carry with it.

I would trade the Raven Guard for the Alpha Legion any day. Considering the fact the raven guard are beyond emo....

I wish that Thousand Sons was still loyal and Ultra Marines as traitor

Loyal: Thousand Suns and Alpha Legion

Traitor: Dark Douches and Space Mongols.

1k sons loyal just becuase a Thousand Sons.
Would love to see the Imperial Fists and Ultramarines to go traitor just for the irony

ultramarines as traitors so my black templars can destroy them and world eaters still loyal.

Emperor's Children IN
Dark Angels OUT

I have to agree with the OP on the Salamanders, they would be an awesome traitor legion.

I would have liked the 1000 sons to have gone traitor, but then returned (Probably in a saving the day type way, space marines seem to love that)

Though I'd have liked them to return before the whole becoming mindless zombies thing.

Thousand Sons for me, as well.

But Space Wolves stay too. They don't deserve this hate T_T

Salamanders, Space Wolves, and maybe half of the Blood Angels who have given into the black rage would be cool traitors. Thousand Sons, Alpha Legion, and Night Lords would be cool loyalists

Alpha Legion.

They're just badass.

Hell they're not even real traitors

I want would want the Blood Angels to be traitor and the Thousand sons to be loyal.

Thousand Sons as loyalists and the Space Wolves as traitors

Avatar 720 wrote:World Eaters back and Ultras gone; because seeing Angron + Russ with the Space Wolves and World Eaters fighting side-by-side would be awe-inspiringly terrifying.

Agreed! It's like a slower form of exterminatus!

blazinpsycho&typhooni wrote:

Avatar 720 wrote:World Eaters back and Ultras gone; because seeing Angron + Russ with the Space Wolves and World Eaters fighting side-by-side would be awe-inspiringly terrifying.

Agreed! It's like a slower form of exterminatus!

I would like to see an angry-off between the World Eaters and the Angry Marines.

xXSir MontyXx wrote:Death Guard in because they look MUCH cooler without all the rot and plague. So they would replace the..... Space wolves.

+1

Death Guard were always my favorite Pre-Hersey Legion

...I think traitor Blood Angles would be pretty cool

mega_bassist wrote:

xXSir MontyXx wrote:Death Guard in because they look MUCH cooler without all the rot and plague. So they would replace the..... Space wolves.

+1

Death Guard were always my favorite Pre-Hersey Legion

...I think traitor Blood Angles would be pretty cool

Exactly.

Why they decided not to make the legion obsessed with blood and rage join the blood god is beyond me.

blazinpsycho&typhooni wrote:

Avatar 720 wrote:World Eaters back and Ultras gone; because seeing Angron + Russ with the Space Wolves and World Eaters fighting side-by-side would be awe-inspiringly terrifying.

Agreed! It's like a slower form of exterminatus!

Definitely be quite awesome, imagine a Emperors children / Blood angels combo imagine the angst, pretentiousness and windswept locks of hair ahahah I think ultramarines would make good slaanesh worshipers since there finally free from bondage. That and I do recall the ancient greeks being kinda pervy from there folklore / mythology .

I'd like some legions to split like some traitor and some loyal. One captain most of thought backstabbing the Emperor wasn't right.

I thought about this a while back and even wrote down some ideas for a mirrored 40k universe in the fluff section of the forum (http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/328578.page). Due to the way the loyalist/written character traits were designed, a lot of the traitor legions tend to make better heroes and a lot of the loyalists make better villains.

Ultimately, if I could rewrite 40k, I’d put someone other than Horus as the arch traitor. This ultimately would affect the mix of loyalists and traitors but I think we’d get a more balanced atmosphere out of it (see below). We’d have loyalists who are more anti heroic and traitors who are more slippery and conniving.

Traitors
Ultramarines (Guilliman as the Arch Traitor)
Space Wolves (Khorne)
Salamanders (Nurgle)
DA (Tzeentch)
White Scars (Slaanesh)
Word Bearers
BA (daemonic vampires FTW)
Raven Guard
Imperial Fists

Loyalists
Luna Wolves
World Eaters
Thousand Sons
Emperor’s Children
Death Guard
Iron Hands
Alpha Legion
Night Lords
Iron Warriors

candy.man wrote:I thought about this a while back and even wrote down some ideas for a mirrored 40k universe in the fluff section of the forum (http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/328578.page). Due to the way the loyalist/written character traits were designed, a lot of the traitor legions tend to make better heroes and a lot of the loyalists make better villains.

Ultimately, if I could rewrite 40k, I’d put someone other than Horus as the arch traitor. This ultimately would affect the mix of loyalists and traitors but I think we’d get a more balanced atmosphere out of it (see below). We’d have loyalists who are more anti heroic and traitors who are more slippery and conniving.

Traitors
Ultramarines (Guilliman as the Arch Traitor)
Space Wolves (Khorne)
Salamanders (Nurgle)
DA (Tzeentch)
White Scars (Slaanesh)
Word Bearers
BA (daemonic vampires FTW)
Raven Guard
Imperial Fists

Loyalists
Luna Wolves
World Eaters
Thousand Sons
Emperor’s Children
Death Guard
Iron Hands
Alpha Legion
Night Lords
Iron Warriors

I don't know how I feel about Salamanders being traitor, y'know being the humanitarian marines and all that. But then again with Papa Nurgle, it kinda works out.
So basically you've got most of the traitors turned loyal and vice versa, save the Iron Hands and Word Bearers. Would very much like to see the reasoning! It'd make a most interesting story!

Looking back, I'd think the Word Bearers would probably be doing the best post heresy if they weren't traitors. Spreading the faith in the emporer and all that, but then again you do have the BT's....

There's more detail in the link in my post (a thread full my idea for a mirrored 40k heresy). My arrangement of traitors and loyalists is based on the idea that with a different arch traitor, you’d get a different selection of traitor legions.

I had the Salamanders being swayed in a similar sense to how the Death Guard were swayed. I had envisioned Nurgle Salamanders embracing the Death aspect of Nurgle like the Purge rather than the plague aspect like the Death Guard Plague Marines. They’d be equipped largely with Chem Flamers and virus bomb entire planets. I also had an idea that they’d be focused on bringing about an apocalyptic prophesy foretold in the book of flames.

As for the Word Bearers, they were the original traitors in a sense and were pretty much responsible for the whole heresy. If the corruption of Horus hadn’t have worked out, they would have moved to corrupt another arrogant primarch and this is the idea that I went with. It is interesting to think that if the emperor allowed the legion to continue to worship him post heresy, things would have been extremely different (I didn’t go with this idea as there would have been too much stuff to rewrite).

I'd like to see the Thousand Sons still be loyal. And I'd like the Space Wolves to go to chaos!

Dark Wolves...........yes please

Corennus wrote:I'd like to see the Thousand Sons still be loyal. And I'd like the Space Wolves to go to chaos!

Dark Wolves...........yes please

Only if they all had Hispanic accents and were of south american decent, and we could rename them "Los negro lobos"

Swap Night Lords and the Raven Guard?

blazinpsycho&typhooni wrote:

candy.man wrote:I thought about this a while back and even wrote down some ideas for a mirrored 40k universe in the fluff section of the forum (http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/328578.page). Due to the way the loyalist/written character traits were designed, a lot of the traitor legions tend to make better heroes and a lot of the loyalists make better villains.

Ultimately, if I could rewrite 40k, I’d put someone other than Horus as the arch traitor. This ultimately would affect the mix of loyalists and traitors but I think we’d get a more balanced atmosphere out of it (see below). We’d have loyalists who are more anti heroic and traitors who are more slippery and conniving.

Traitors
Ultramarines (Guilliman as the Arch Traitor)
Space Wolves (Khorne)
Salamanders (Nurgle)
DA (Tzeentch)
White Scars (Slaanesh)
Word Bearers
BA (daemonic vampires FTW)
Raven Guard
Imperial Fists

Loyalists
Luna Wolves
World Eaters
Thousand Sons
Emperor’s Children
Death Guard
Iron Hands
Alpha Legion
Night Lords
Iron Warriors

I don't know how I feel about Salamanders being traitor, y'know being the humanitarian marines and all that. But then again with Papa Nurgle, it kinda works out.
So basically you've got most of the traitors turned loyal and vice versa, save the Iron Hands and Word Bearers. Would very much like to see the reasoning! It'd make a most interesting story!

Looking back, I'd think the Word Bearers would probably be doing the best post heresy if they weren't traitors. Spreading the faith in the emporer and all that, but then again you do have the BT's....

I would like to read the reasoning behind traitor fists (as they're always described as being the most loyal and trustworthy of any legion), without having to read an entire thread...hint...hint,hint,hint.

Dark Apostle 666 wrote:Swap Night Lords and the Raven Guard?

I really doubt anyone would realize the difference its not like youd see either of them coming

ChronoCupcake wrote:

Dark Apostle 666 wrote:Swap Night Lords and the Raven Guard?

I really doubt anyone would realize the difference its not like youd see either of them coming

Batman vs. ninja

There IS a difference

@im2randomghgh
LOL. The thread isn’t that hard to read as it’s in dot point form and categorised by legion (therefore your able to read the fluff on only the legions your interested in).

I wouldn’t say that the loyalist in the cannon are the most loyal, it’s just that the first person perspective writing that is apparent in a lot of the codices tend to be overly biased. In my opinion, all of the founding legions were more or less evenly loyal and each legion had their own grievances. The traitors in the cannon are a result of misfortune and Horus’ manipulations. My fluff basically tweaks a few events slightly to get a different result. To quote three examples (as quoting all 8 would be time consuming) I turned the DA traitor by making the fluff of the Lion being a traitor true, I turned the Space Wolves traitor by linking the wolf gods of Fenris to Khorne and I turned the BA traitor by Guilliman tricking Sanguinius (see dot points below).


Dark Angels
• Astelan’s recollection of events in the novel “Angels of Darkness” (where Lion was purposely late in arriving on Terra) is correct.
• Lion was not banished into the warp but saved by Tzeentch at the last minute.
• Lion later reappears to his legion to execute Luther and advise his chapter that “all is well”.
• Lion, slowly but surely, leads his legion down the path of damnation and following the changer of ways. Those who did not convert to chaos were executed or turned into chaos spawn.
• Lion currently rules over his legion in the Eye of Terror as a Daemon Prince. Lion is now known as the Lion of Change.
• Cypher and his renegade faction “Fallen Angels” are known to mysteriously appear and assist imperial forces in thwarting the Dark Angel’s plans.
• The Fallen Angels believe that if they can destroy the Dark Angels, it will absolve their legion of its sins.
• The Dark Angels bear a strong hatred for the Fallen Angels.

Space Wolves
• Wolf Gods of Fenris linked to Khorne
• Prior Khornate worship became apparent during the attack on the Thousand Sons.
• Leman Russ was rewarded with daemonhood by his “true God” after he killed Magnus the Red.
• Legion is actively led by Logan Grimnar, the high king of Skulls.
• After the legion embraced their new god, they sided with Guilliman and his campaign against the imperium.
• Daemon Wolf Leman Russ and his horde were defeated by the World Eaters during the first war for Armageddon. Daemon Wolf Leman Russ was banished by the Grey Knights for 100 years and a day.
• All Rune Priests/Psykers were killed when the legion fully embraced Khornate worship.
• Ragnar Blackmane is now a mad butcher like Kharn the Betrayer in the cannon universe.

Blood Angels
• Tricked by Guilliman during Heresy as Sanguinius was unaware of Guilliman’s treachery.
• Guilliman tricked Sanguinius because he knew Sanguinius wouldn’t betray the emperor and he feared Sanguinius’ intervention would ruin his plans. • Sanguinius was tricked by Guilliman into believing that the Wold Eater’s legion had turned traitor. Rivalry with the World Eaters clouded Sanguinius’ judgement.
• The Blood Angels experienced heavy loses after getting caught on the wrong side during the heresy and Istvaan V massacre. The loyalist legions assumed the Blood Angels legion was another traitor legion that sided with Guilliman.
• Sanguinius died during the Isvaan massacre when Angron broke Sanguinius’ back over his knee.
• Distraught of over the primarch’s death and their legions grim situation as traitors, the legion’s prayers were answered by the chaos gods who offered them salvation over oblivion.
• Following the acceptance of their new masters, the legion assisted the traitor legions in the final assault on terra.
• The legion are followers of chaos undivided and reside in a daemon world in the Eye of Terror. The daemon world resembles their home planet.
• Currently ruled by Blood Lord Dante and Mephiston, Daemon Prince of Death.
• Red Thirst + exposure to the warp have created strange and rapid mutations amongst the chapter. It is common for a blood angel marine to grow large black feathered wings as well as large fangs and claws.
• Legion is infamous for their brutal winged assaults and drinking the blood of their enemies.
• Legion now resembles a pack of winged, blood thirsty vampires than the noble angelic warriors they once were.
• The entire army now wears a Death Company style armour/colour scheme.

Loyalist 1k Sons = kick-ass psyker battle squads (f k your GK)

The one loyalist legion I would love to see turn traitor would be DA. Because if they did, wouldn't they hunt their loyalist brethern as the current DA hunt the Fallen? Plus I want to have Chaos-y Deathwing... would love to see Matt Ward write that codex....

candy.man wrote:@im2randomghgh
LOL. The thread isn’t that hard to read as it’s in dot point form and categorised by legion (therefore your able to read the fluff on only the legions your interested in).

I wouldn’t say that the loyalist in the cannon are the most loyal, it’s just that the first person perspective writing that is apparent in a lot of the codices tend to be overly biased. In my opinion, all of the founding legions were more or less evenly loyal and each legion had their own grievances. The traitors in the cannon are a result of misfortune and Horus’ manipulations. My fluff basically tweaks a few events slightly to get a different result. To quote three examples (as quoting all 8 would be time consuming) I turned the DA traitor by making the fluff of the Lion being a traitor true, I turned the Space Wolves traitor by linking the wolf gods of Fenris to Khorne and I turned the BA traitor by Guilliman tricking Sanguinius (see dot points below).


Dark Angels
• Astelan’s recollection of events in the novel “Angels of Darkness” (where Lion was purposely late in arriving on Terra) is correct.
• Lion was not banished into the warp but saved by Tzeentch at the last minute.
• Lion later reappears to his legion to execute Luther and advise his chapter that “all is well”.
• Lion, slowly but surely, leads his legion down the path of damnation and following the changer of ways. Those who did not convert to chaos were executed or turned into chaos spawn.
• Lion currently rules over his legion in the Eye of Terror as a Daemon Prince. Lion is now known as the Lion of Change.
• Cypher and his renegade faction “Fallen Angels” are known to mysteriously appear and assist imperial forces in thwarting the Dark Angel’s plans.
• The Fallen Angels believe that if they can destroy the Dark Angels, it will absolve their legion of its sins.
• The Dark Angels bear a strong hatred for the Fallen Angels.

Space Wolves
• Wolf Gods of Fenris linked to Khorne
• Prior Khornate worship became apparent during the attack on the Thousand Sons.
• Leman Russ was rewarded with daemonhood by his “true God” after he killed Magnus the Red.
• Legion is actively led by Logan Grimnar, the high king of Skulls.
• After the legion embraced their new god, they sided with Guilliman and his campaign against the imperium.
• Daemon Wolf Leman Russ and his horde were defeated by the World Eaters during the first war for Armageddon. Daemon Wolf Leman Russ was banished by the Grey Knights for 100 years and a day.
• All Rune Priests/Psykers were killed when the legion fully embraced Khornate worship.
• Ragnar Blackmane is now a mad butcher like Kharn the Betrayer in the cannon universe.

Blood Angels
• Tricked by Guilliman during Heresy as Sanguinius was unaware of Guilliman’s treachery.
• Guilliman tricked Sanguinius because he knew Sanguinius wouldn’t betray the emperor and he feared Sanguinius’ intervention would ruin his plans. • Sanguinius was tricked by Guilliman into believing that the Wold Eater’s legion had turned traitor. Rivalry with the World Eaters clouded Sanguinius’ judgement.
• The Blood Angels experienced heavy loses after getting caught on the wrong side during the heresy and Istvaan V massacre. The loyalist legions assumed the Blood Angels legion was another traitor legion that sided with Guilliman.
• Sanguinius died during the Isvaan massacre when Angron broke Sanguinius’ back over his knee.
• Distraught of over the primarch’s death and their legions grim situation as traitors, the legion’s prayers were answered by the chaos gods who offered them salvation over oblivion.
• Following the acceptance of their new masters, the legion assisted the traitor legions in the final assault on terra.
• The legion are followers of chaos undivided and reside in a daemon world in the Eye of Terror. The daemon world resembles their home planet.
• Currently ruled by Blood Lord Dante and Mephiston, Daemon Prince of Death.
• Red Thirst + exposure to the warp have created strange and rapid mutations amongst the chapter. It is common for a blood angel marine to grow large black feathered wings as well as large fangs and claws.
• Legion is infamous for their brutal winged assaults and drinking the blood of their enemies.
• Legion now resembles a pack of winged, blood thirsty vampires than the noble angelic warriors they once were.
• The entire army now wears a Death Company style armour/colour scheme.

As to the fists only being as loyal as others, not more so:

Wiki on Dorn: Dorn himself was fiercely loyal to the Emperor, and never once sought any favour from him. He exemplified the truth, and could never tell a lie, even if it would have aided his cause. Because of this, Dorn's statue stands as one of only four on Macragge, next to that of Roboute Guilliman, Primarch of the Ultramarines.

Wiki on Primarchs: Each Primarch was both a father and older brother to each Legion, the source of the Legion's temperment and humours, a being in which each Legion saw their ultimate perfection and ways of war given personification in one perfect individual.

Dorn=uber loyal+honest
Space Marines=do what their primarchs does
Imperial Fists=Dorn's marines
Imperial Fists= uber loyal+honest.

I wish that blood angels and grey knights were still loyal, and that it was the ultramarines that went traitor instead.

I wish the Adeptus Custodes were traitors, and to make up for the overwhelming might that transfers over, the thousand sons AND Alpha Legion fought for the IoM.

I have a soft spot for the thousand sons, love em. Definately what i would like to see back on the side of the Imperium. As for a chapter that can turn to chaos... I dont like the white scars, never have.... So they can have them for no other reason than i dont like them.

Death Guard loyal and take the smurfs. Why get rid of them Wolves? Nobody can kill better then them.

im2randomghgh wrote:

ChronoCupcake wrote:

Dark Apostle 666 wrote:Swap Night Lords and the Raven Guard?

I really doubt anyone would realize the difference its not like youd see either of them coming

Batman vs. ninja

There IS a difference

would you see either coming for you ?

Henners91 wrote:Alpha Legion.

They're just badass.

Hell they're not even real traitors

Exactly - loyal and loving it since 30K!

After the events of LEGION well, the only thing that is clear is that... nothing's really clear.

Other than what it looks like Mr. Abnett was aiming for.

Maybe.

Of course, the other Black Library writers seemed to have misplaced that memo, hence the Mustache Twirling Idiots of "THE HUNT FOR VOLDORIUS" and "VICTORIES OF THE SPACE MARINES".