In 40k fluff orks can take the most horrendous wounds and get back up, can fantasy orks take the same punishment?

Probably best to ask Fantasy peepz...
AFAIK I'm not entirely sure, i think they are stronger and probably don't fel as much pain as humans but i think a bolt shell to the gut would put one down.

I don't know too much about 40k orks but I have an orc and goblin army for fantasy as far as I know the fantasy version is nearly as tough if not the same. I do know 40k orks can get a lot bigger though so I may be wrong on this.

Orks can grow bigger and tougher the more they fight.

Fantasy Orks are simply the 40k Orks lost and weaker cousin. The 40k Orks will have to beat the crap the Waaaagh out of them in order to get the fantasy Orks into line and obeying the Warboss. But once they do - *Evil Smirk* Waaaaaaagh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! *across the universe*

So, basically everyones consensus is that they are not as strong, but still tougher then humans?

purplefood wrote:Probably best to ask Fantasy peepz...
AFAIK I'm not entirely sure, i think they are stronger and probably don't fel as much pain as humans but i think a bolt shell to the gut would put one down.

Any humanoid getting a bolter shell to the gut would most likely die without serious care, because that's where a lot of your most important digestive organs are located.

But in 40k fluff orks dont always....
anyways, I'll post this in WHFB and see what comes up.

samius wrote:But in 40k fluff orks dont always....

...Always what?

Cheesecat wrote:

samius wrote:But in 40k fluff orks dont always....

...Always what?

Orks don't always after a whole bolter shell

mwbeardpride wrote:

Cheesecat wrote:

samius wrote:But in 40k fluff orks dont always....

...Always what?

Orks don't always after a whole bolter shell

Cheesecat wrote:

mwbeardpride wrote:

Cheesecat wrote:

samius wrote:But in 40k fluff orks dont always....

...Always what?

Orks don't always after a whole bolter shell

Okay lets try this again, if you accidently an ork with a whole bolter shell, they don't always.

Haha sorry for the confusion.
you said,
"Any humanoid getting a bolter shell to the gut would most likely die without serious care, because that's where a lot of your most important digestive organs are located." and I replied, "they don't always" referring to them dying, so what i meant is that in the fluff orks don't always die from a bolter shell to the stomach.

samius wrote:Haha sorry for the confusion.
you said,
"Any humanoid getting a bolter shell to the gut would most likely die without serious care, because that's where a lot of your most important digestive organs are located." and I replied, "they don't always" referring to them dying, so what i meant is that in the fluff orks don't always die from a bolter shell to the stomach.

I need some examples man, because the ork might be functioning at the time of the story but he dies later due to blood loss, lots of exposed flesh, excruciating pain, nonfunctional organs, etc.

Orks have multiple redundant organs, they can survive things that other humanoids cannot. Even things that Space Marines cannot survive.

there are examples of decapitated orks having there heads sowed back on and living, hell, somtimes they even get sowed to the right body

Warboss ZanZag wrote:

A Monocle?!?!?! He is a wizard! Diden't you know?!?! It's a well known fact that all wizards wear monocles.

Melissia wrote:Orks have multiple redundant organs, they can survive things that other humanoids cannot. Even things that Space Marines cannot survive.

Even then blood loss, lots of exposed flesh, excruciating pain, etc will probably kill him off without some care from a mad dok or painboy. Your redundant organs are useless if you cannot get oxygenated blood to the

tissues or they become infected due to having large amounts of exposed flesh to the outside world.

Which assumes that they can't photosynthesize.

They ARE part fungus.

For that matter, Orks can fight in space in planes that have open cockpits without any notable depreciation in combat talent (mind, they don't exactly aim anyway).

Melissia wrote:Which assumes that they can't photosynthesize.

They ARE part fungus.

For that matter, Orks can fight in space in planes that have open cockpits without any notable depreciation in combat talent (mind, they don't exactly aim anyway).

They still need blood to transport nutrients and oxygen to the tissues otherwise the tissues die. And isn't the fungus side of the Ork only their for reproduction?

And yet, they don't need it as much as we do. Orkoid physiology is baffling, but essentially their "blood" is an interstitial fluid filled with fungus (which is why it smells so damn bad), which itself is a biological factor in repairing damage to an Ork as well as maintaining his organs, photosynthesizing (as I said, Orks can fight in a vacuum without any real penalty), and so on.

For that matter, Orks may not even really have blood as we know it (and it is merely referred to as such out of convenience), but instead a body which circulates interstitial fluid with various organs. An Ork may actually be able to regenerate this fluid more easily than we, as this fungus would propagate itself easier than we could produce red blood cells.

Melissia wrote:And yet, they don't need it as much as we do. Orkoid physiology is baffling, but essentially their "blood" is an interstitial fluid filled with fungus (which is why it smells so damn bad), which itself is a biological factor in repairing damage to an Ork as well as maintaining his organs, photosynthesizing (as I said, Orks can fight in a vacuum without any real penalty), and so on.

For that matter, Orks may not even really have blood as we know it (and it is merely referred to as such out of convenience), but instead a body which circulates interstitial fluid with various organs. An Ork may actually be able to regenerate this fluid more easily than we, as this fungus would propagate itself easier than we could produce red blood cells.

Even then the ork's heart would just pump his fluid out before his hole in his gut would heal over.

That assumes that Orks bleed as long as humans do, which there's no real reason to believe given that they don't have the same kind of blood we do (Ork blood being full of fungus, spores, etc).

Orks are designed for war, to be tough as nails. Certainly they don't have the same frailty for blood loss as we humans do, or even as Marines do. Especially the bigger ones, but not JUST them.

Melissia wrote:That assumes that Orks bleed as long as humans do, which there's no real reason to believe given that they don't have the same kind of blood we do (Ork blood being full of fungus, spores, etc).

Orks are designed for war, to be tough as nails. Certainly they don't have the same frailty for blood loss as we humans do, or even as Marines do. Especially the bigger ones, but not JUST them.

It doesn't matter what the ork blood consist of you still need a heart to keep the bood circulating. Your heart is still going to keep beating even with massive bood loss (bolter shot to gut) which is going to be detrimental

to your blood circulation meaning the brain is going to be deprived of it's life support which will cause the ork to faint and evntually die.

Cheesecat wrote:

Melissia wrote:That assumes that Orks bleed as long as humans do, which there's no real reason to believe given that they don't have the same kind of blood we do (Ork blood being full of fungus, spores, etc).

Orks are designed for war, to be tough as nails. Certainly they don't have the same frailty for blood loss as we humans do, or even as Marines do. Especially the bigger ones, but not JUST them.

It doesn't matter what the ork blood consist of you still need a heart to keep the bood circulating. Your heart is still going to keep beating even with massive bood loss (bolter shot to gut) which is going to be detrimental

to your blood circulation meaning the brain is going to be deprived of it's life support which will cause the ork to faint and evntually die.

The lore doesn't support this conclusion.

Orks take grievous wounds and then eventually get up to fight some more-- including massive blood loss (for example, in the Cain books, an Ork is gutted to the point where his guts are hanging out and his head smashed in, and yet he still gets back up and destroys a Necron warrior after the stun of the hits wears off). Orks have been decapitated and then had their head put back on-- a day or tow later, not immediately-- the WRONG body and survived. Caving an inferior's skull in is a common punishment, and yet it isn't lethal.

Melissia wrote:

Cheesecat wrote:

Melissia wrote:That assumes that Orks bleed as long as humans do, which there's no real reason to believe given that they don't have the same kind of blood we do (Ork blood being full of fungus, spores, etc).

Orks are designed for war, to be tough as nails. Certainly they don't have the same frailty for blood loss as we humans do, or even as Marines do. Especially the bigger ones, but not JUST them.

It doesn't matter what the ork blood consist of you still need a heart to keep the bood circulating. Your heart is still going to keep beating even with massive bood loss (bolter shot to gut) which is going to be detrimental

to your blood circulation meaning the brain is going to be deprived of it's life support which will cause the ork to faint and evntually die.

The lore doesn't support this conclusion.

Orks take grievous wounds and then eventually get up to fight some more-- including massive blood loss (for example, in the Cain books, an Ork is gutted to the point where his guts are hanging out and his head smashed in, and yet he still gets back up and destroys a Necron warrior after the stun of the hits wears off). Orks have been decapitated and then had their head put back on-- a day or tow later, not immediately-- the WRONG body and survived. Caving an inferior's skull in is a common punishment, and yet it isn't lethal.

In the first sentence the ork probably had enough blood to do a few basic things before he ran out of blood, only to die moments later.

He was gutted and brained, laying down long enough for his blood to freeze. When he got up and destroyed that warrior, he didn't die from blood loss afterwards-- he attempted to charge another warrior and was killed by the gauss rifle.

Wouldnt the "fungal soup" pour out of an ork when it gets shot? like a balloon full of water? XD

Not all fungi photosynthesize...
It would be useful if Orks did and if they did it was definitely intentional but just because they are fungi doesn't mean they can photosynthesize...

purplefood wrote:Not all fungi photosynthesize...
It would be useful if Orks did and if they did it was definitely intentional but just because they are fungi doesn't mean they can photosynthesize...

And yet, it's far more likely that they can than that they can't, as they do not need to breathe.

Melissia wrote:

purplefood wrote:Not all fungi photosynthesize...
It would be useful if Orks did and if they did it was definitely intentional but just because they are fungi doesn't mean they can photosynthesize...

And yet, it's far more likely that they can than that they can't, as they do not need to breathe.

Fair enough they probably can photosynthesize.
Orks are more than likely tougher than Orcs...
How much tougher i don't know.

I'm probably biased and don't get me wrong I like fantasy but I think anything in 40k would pretty much destroy its fantasy counterpart. Just my humble opinion

Melissia wrote:

Cheesecat wrote:

Melissia wrote:That assumes that Orks bleed as long as humans do, which there's no real reason to believe given that they don't have the same kind of blood we do (Ork blood being full of fungus, spores, etc).

Orks are designed for war, to be tough as nails. Certainly they don't have the same frailty for blood loss as we humans do, or even as Marines do. Especially the bigger ones, but not JUST them.

It doesn't matter what the ork blood consist of you still need a heart to keep the bood circulating. Your heart is still going to keep beating even with massive bood loss (bolter shot to gut) which is going to be detrimental

to your blood circulation meaning the brain is going to be deprived of it's life support which will cause the ork to faint and evntually die.

The lore doesn't support this conclusion.

Orks take grievous wounds and then eventually get up to fight some more-- including massive blood loss (for example, in the Cain books, an Ork is gutted to the point where his guts are hanging out and his head smashed in, and yet he still gets back up and destroys a Necron warrior after the stun of the hits wears off). Orks have been decapitated and then had their head put back on-- a day or tow later, not immediately-- the WRONG body and survived. Caving an inferior's skull in is a common punishment, and yet it isn't lethal.

Okay for the second part the ork would need a reservoir that contains at least 14,400 liters (probably more) of blood just to have enough blood to function for two days while bleeding. Which is impossible given there

body shape.

Yes, they would need that if they had a human anatomy, and if they had human blood, and if they had the same human need for blood.

You yet lack the comprehension that Orks are truly alien beings, not designed by the chance of fate and natural selection, but instead designed intentionally from the ground up by what basically amounts to gods, in a galaxy whose laws of physics can be altered by psychic power-- which Orks have in a limited extend through their gestalt psychic field.

40k for sure, there fungus people. Self healing, and every ork that dies puts out a sudden spore burst to make more orks. At least in fluff...

Melissia wrote:Yes, they would need that if they had a human anatomy, and if they had human blood, and if they had the same human need for blood.

You yet lack the comprehension that Orks are truly alien beings, not designed by the chance of fate and natural selection, but instead designed intentionally from the ground up by what basically amounts to gods, in a galaxy whose laws of physics can be altered by psychic power-- which Orks have in a limited extend through their gestalt psychic field.

I don't think you understand, all animals need blood without it you die this isn't something that just essential to humans. And also photosynthesis only works if there's CO2 and sunlight.

Cheesecat wrote:I don't think you understand, all animals need blood without it you die this isn't something that just essential to humans. And also photosynthesis only works if there's CO2 and sunlight.

I understand full well-- probably a damned sight better than you do, considering that what you said is actually incorrect. Not all animals have blood as we have it (especially invertebrates)-- in some animals, blood is completely disconnected from the transport of oxygen to the body.

You also seem to forget that in photosynthesis, CO2 is turned into O2 (along with sugar, with the specifics of depending on the nature of the plant). In many (not all-- some use sulfur for example) animals, O2 is utilized in cellular respiration to produce adenosine triphosphate, and CO2 as a waste product. Theoretically, Orks would be able to benefit from either gas depending on the atmosphere, and in a place with little or no atmosphere (or the wrong kind) they would merely need sunlight as their body cycles between cellular respiration and photosynthesis.

Nothing like them exists on Earth-- we are merely the haphazard result of the random chance of fate and natural selection, while Orks are beings whom are purpose-built by a godlike race of beings for the sole purpose of war in a galaxy which whose laws of physics can be bent by people with a strong enough will and the right genetics-- genetics Orks have, as every Ork produces a gestalt psychic field which is further amplified by proximity to other Orks.

Melissia wrote:

Cheesecat wrote:I don't think you understand, all animals need blood without it you die this isn't something that just essential to humans. And also photosynthesis only works if there's CO2 and sunlight.

I understand full well-- probably a damned sight better than you do, considering that what you said is actually incorrect. Not all animals have blood as we have it (especially invertebrates)-- in some animals, blood is completely disconnected from the transport of oxygen to the body.

You also seem to forget that in photosynthesis, CO2 is turned into O2 (along with sugar, with the specifics of depending on the nature of the plant). In many (not all-- some use sulfur for example) animals, O2 is utilized in cellular respiration to produce adenosine triphosphate, and CO2 as a waste product. Theoretically, Orks would be able to benefit from either gas depending on the atmosphere, and in a place with little or no atmosphere (or the wrong kind) they would merely need sunlight as their body cycles between cellular respiration and photosynthesis.

Nothing like them exists on Earth-- we are merely the haphazard result of the random chance of fate and natural selection, while Orks are beings whom are purpose-built by a godlike race of beings for the sole purpose of war in a galaxy which whose laws of physics can be bent by people with a strong enough will and the right genetics-- genetics Orks have, as every Ork produces a gestalt psychic field which is further amplified by proximity to other Orks.

Blood isn't just used solely for gas exchange it transports white blood cells (essential for fighting diseases), platelets (needed for healing) and nutrients (chemicals the body needs in order to live and grow) as well. Also

my statement is still correct because those invertebrates still have blood but it relies on hemocyanin, hemerythrin, hemerythrin or vanabins instead of hemoglobin.

Hymolymph isn't considered blood. It's actually closer to interstitial fluid than blood.

Melissia wrote:Hymolymph isn't considered blood. It's actually closer to interstitial fluid than blood.

It functions as both blood and interstitial fluid, either way there's probably a reason why you only see it in invertebrates.

Cheesecat wrote:

purplefood wrote:Probably best to ask Fantasy peepz...
AFAIK I'm not entirely sure, i think they are stronger and probably don't fel as much pain as humans but i think a bolt shell to the gut would put one down.

Any humanoid getting a bolter shell to the gut would most likely die without serious care, because that's where a lot of your most important digestive organs are located.

None of the organs would be near him, so yearh thats true. a bolter round effectively blows you apart in a shower of meat and bone splinters.

As for the orks and the orcs in fantasy being the same id like to point out that the orcs actually used to have females and that their breeding methods havent been mentioned in any of the fluff (to my knowledge). I know people love to draw parallels to fantasy and 40k but i dont think that they 2 races are actually the same.
Consider grots and goblins. In 40k they are little more then slaves and food. In fantasy they have shamans and leaders just like the orcs and seem to have entire communities that are not dependent on orc rulership.

As for fantasy being in the 40k world as another planet, even if that is so, it could be in an entirely different galaxy or even universe. It could be happening millions of years before the imperium of man, or after its gone. Theres just no way of knowing.

They aren't that powerful...
Oh no...

I like to think orcs and orks are just as tough and have the same way of reproduction but unfortunately there's no way to be really sure on either of those topics because GW doesn't really talk about it.

Cheesecat wrote:

purplefood wrote:Probably best to ask Fantasy peepz...
AFAIK I'm not entirely sure, i think they are stronger and probably don't fel as much pain as humans but i think a bolt shell to the gut would put one down.

Any humanoid getting a bolter shell to the gut would most likely die without serious care, because that's where a lot of your most important digestive organs are located.

I'm fairly sure that you die if you leave a bullet to the stomach wound (ie don't seek medical attention) because it ruptures the lining and the stomach enzymes leak out and 'digest' the inside of your body

115th Cadian Shock Troops wrote:

Cheesecat wrote:

purplefood wrote:Probably best to ask Fantasy peepz...
AFAIK I'm not entirely sure, i think they are stronger and probably don't fel as much pain as humans but i think a bolt shell to the gut would put one down.

Any humanoid getting a bolter shell to the gut would most likely die without serious care, because that's where a lot of your most important digestive organs are located.

I'm fairly sure that you die if you leave a bullet to the stomach wound (ie don't seek medical attention) because it ruptures the lining and the stomach enzymes leak out and 'digest' the inside of your body

A human would but it's not just the stomach that has those enzymes... they also wouldn't be able to digest all of you.
Orks however... hell knows what they use.

tarnish wrote:

Cheesecat wrote:

purplefood wrote:Probably best to ask Fantasy peepz...
AFAIK I'm not entirely sure, i think they are stronger and probably don't fel as much pain as humans but i think a bolt shell to the gut would put one down.

Any humanoid getting a bolter shell to the gut would most likely die without serious care, because that's where a lot of your most important digestive organs are located.

None of the organs would be near him, so yearh thats true. a bolter round effectively blows you apart in a shower of meat and bone splinters.

As for the orks and the orcs in fantasy being the same id like to point out that the orcs actually used to have females and that their breeding methods havent been mentioned in any of the fluff (to my knowledge). I know people love to draw parallels to fantasy and 40k but i dont think that they 2 races are actually the same.
Consider grots and goblins. In 40k they are little more then slaves and food. In fantasy they have shamans and leaders just like the orcs and seem to have entire communities that are not dependent on orc rulership.

As for fantasy being in the 40k world as another planet, even if that is so, it could be in an entirely different galaxy or even universe. It could be happening millions of years before the imperium of man, or after its gone. Theres just no way of knowing.

*Ahem*
http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Rebel_Grots
40k Grots do have their own Kulture!
Also, Melissia is mostly correct, the Orks are a designed race and are completely different from anything we can imagine, the fact that they are 'humanoid' is merely because when they were created it was thought that humanoid was the most efficient body design (although saying that, i think that is still thought to be true).

Cheesecat wrote:Blood isn't just used solely for gas exchange it transports white blood cells (essential for fighting diseases), platelets (needed for healing) and nutrients (chemicals the body needs in order to live and grow) as well. Also

my statement is still correct because those invertebrates still have blood but it relies on hemocyanin, hemerythrin, hemerythrin or vanabins instead of hemoglobin.

Orks aren't animals... or invertebrates. They're a animal-plant-hybrid specifically built to wage war.

Being a fungus, they don't use white blood cells. They're not really subject to most infections or diseases. Being a fungus, they're not subject to oxygen deprivation, as orks can, and will, "swim" across the void of space to attack, in melee, other vessels. Especially if their home ship suffers hull-breaching damage and they happen to find themselves sucked out into space.

Orks don't generally "bleed out" over time. They might suffer sufficient bolter hits to, in effect, cause their bodies to explode in a shower of meaty pulp-bits... and thus die from a range of traumas... but it would have to be a grievous wound, indeed, to cause an orc to bleed to death.

Revenent Reiko wrote:
*Ahem*
http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Rebel_Grots
40k Grots do have their own Kulture!

they sure do but their physiology is linked to the other orkoids in the race structure. theres no proof of this in the fantasy version, which was actually my point. if the goblins get along fine without the orks it might suggest that they infact are a seperate species in fantasy.

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Orkoid_physiology <---- this might be helpfull.

tarnish wrote:

Revenent Reiko wrote:
*Ahem*
http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Rebel_Grots
40k Grots do have their own Kulture!

they sure do but their physiology is linked to the other orkoids in the race structure. theres no proof of this in the fantasy version, which was actually my point. if the goblins get along fine without the orks it might suggest that they infact are a seperate species in fantasy.

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Orkoid_physiology <---- this might be helpfull.

I know dude, i just wanted to show the Rebel Grots

Hummie blud ~ Red, iron based.
Crustacean blood ~ light blue, copper based.
Plant blood ~ green, magnesium based.

Orkoid blud ~ black, ?????? based?

Plant 'blood' isn't green...
They get the colour from chlorophyll.
Plants use water for general conveyance of stuff

purplefood wrote:Plant 'blood' isn't green...
They get the colour from chlorophyll.
Plants use water for general conveyance of stuff

*Runs off to Wikipedia*

UselessSage wrote:

purplefood wrote:Plant 'blood' isn't green...
They get the colour from chlorophyll.
Plants use water for general conveyance of stuff

*Runs off to Wikipedia*

Who says British education is rubbish...

purplefood wrote:Who says British education is rubbish...

At least they still call what you limys get an "education".
Here in 'merca they are about to give up and call it "young consumer daycare".

UselessSage wrote:

purplefood wrote:Who says British education is rubbish...

At least they still call what you limys get an "education".
Here in 'merca they are about to give up and call it "young consumer daycare".

That sounds bad...

Melissia wrote:

Cheesecat wrote:I don't think you understand, all animals need blood without it you die this isn't something that just essential to humans. And also photosynthesis only works if there's CO2 and sunlight.

I understand full well-- probably a damned sight better than you do, considering that what you said is actually incorrect. Not all animals have blood as we have it (especially invertebrates)-- in some animals, blood is completely disconnected from the transport of oxygen to the body.

You also seem to forget that in photosynthesis, CO2 is turned into O2 (along with sugar, with the specifics of depending on the nature of the plant). In many (not all-- some use sulfur for example) animals, O2 is utilized in cellular respiration to produce adenosine triphosphate, and CO2 as a waste product. Theoretically, Orks would be able to benefit from either gas depending on the atmosphere, and in a place with little or no atmosphere (or the wrong kind) they would merely need sunlight as their body cycles between cellular respiration and photosynthesis.

Nothing like them exists on Earth-- we are merely the haphazard result of the random chance of fate and natural selection, while Orks are beings whom are purpose-built by a godlike race of beings for the sole purpose of war in a galaxy which whose laws of physics can be bent by people with a strong enough will and the right genetics-- genetics Orks have, as every Ork produces a gestalt psychic field which is further amplified by proximity to other Orks.

With the Ork leaking blood (because of bolter shot at gut) proper cellular respiration (due to a significant amount of disconnected veins, capillaries and arteries) won't be able to occur meaning it will start to lose one

of it's waste products carbon dioxide (the chemical essential to photosynthesis). This lack of carbon dioxide will make it impossible for photosynthesis to occur so both forms of respiration are effectively eliminated for

the ork.

Melissia wrote:

Cheesecat wrote:

Melissia wrote:That assumes that Orks bleed as long as humans do, which there's no real reason to believe given that they don't have the same kind of blood we do (Ork blood being full of fungus, spores, etc).

Orks are designed for war, to be tough as nails. Certainly they don't have the same frailty for blood loss as we humans do, or even as Marines do. Especially the bigger ones, but not JUST them.

It doesn't matter what the ork blood consist of you still need a heart to keep the bood circulating. Your heart is still going to keep beating even with massive bood loss (bolter shot to gut) which is going to be detrimental

to your blood circulation meaning the brain is going to be deprived of it's life support which will cause the ork to faint and evntually die.

The lore doesn't support this conclusion.

Orks take grievous wounds and then eventually get up to fight some more-- including massive blood loss (for example, in the Cain books, an Ork is gutted to the point where his guts are hanging out and his head smashed in, and yet he still gets back up and destroys a Necron warrior after the stun of the hits wears off). Orks have been decapitated and then had their head put back on-- a day or tow later, not immediately-- the WRONG body and survived. Caving an inferior's skull in is a common punishment, and yet it isn't lethal.

*gulp*

As a vegetarian I will never look at my Shitake mushrooms the same way again...

Guess I'll stick to beans... unless there's a 'Legume' warrior out there somewhere in the 40k universe.

Cheesecat wrote:

Melissia wrote:

Cheesecat wrote:I don't think you understand, all animals need blood without it you die this isn't something that just essential to humans. And also photosynthesis only works if there's CO2 and sunlight.

I understand full well-- probably a damned sight better than you do, considering that what you said is actually incorrect. Not all animals have blood as we have it (especially invertebrates)-- in some animals, blood is completely disconnected from the transport of oxygen to the body.

You also seem to forget that in photosynthesis, CO2 is turned into O2 (along with sugar, with the specifics of depending on the nature of the plant). In many (not all-- some use sulfur for example) animals, O2 is utilized in cellular respiration to produce adenosine triphosphate, and CO2 as a waste product. Theoretically, Orks would be able to benefit from either gas depending on the atmosphere, and in a place with little or no atmosphere (or the wrong kind) they would merely need sunlight as their body cycles between cellular respiration and photosynthesis.

Nothing like them exists on Earth-- we are merely the haphazard result of the random chance of fate and natural selection, while Orks are beings whom are purpose-built by a godlike race of beings for the sole purpose of war in a galaxy which whose laws of physics can be bent by people with a strong enough will and the right genetics-- genetics Orks have, as every Ork produces a gestalt psychic field which is further amplified by proximity to other Orks.

With the Ork leaking blood (because of bolter shot at gut) proper cellular respiration (due to a significant amount of disconnected veins, capillaries and arteries) won't be able to occur meaning it will start to lose one

of it's waste products carbon dioxide (the chemical essential to photosynthesis). This lack of carbon dioxide will make it impossible for photosynthesis to occur so both forms of respiration are effectively eliminated for

the ork.

And yet, they often survive anyway. Why? Because they're Orks, that's why, and that's what Orks do, they survive to fight another day.

All of the scientific mumbo-jumbo of how plants or fungi or animals do this, that and the other thing with blood, chlorophyll or whatever doesn't matter, because it doesn't apply to a sentient, fungoid-animal designed as the ultimate weapon of mass destruction by a race of god-like alien beings.

Psienesis wrote:

Cheesecat wrote:

Melissia wrote:

Cheesecat wrote:I don't think you understand, all animals need blood without it you die this isn't something that just essential to humans. And also photosynthesis only works if there's CO2 and sunlight.

I understand full well-- probably a damned sight better than you do, considering that what you said is actually incorrect. Not all animals have blood as we have it (especially invertebrates)-- in some animals, blood is completely disconnected from the transport of oxygen to the body.

You also seem to forget that in photosynthesis, CO2 is turned into O2 (along with sugar, with the specifics of depending on the nature of the plant). In many (not all-- some use sulfur for example) animals, O2 is utilized in cellular respiration to produce adenosine triphosphate, and CO2 as a waste product. Theoretically, Orks would be able to benefit from either gas depending on the atmosphere, and in a place with little or no atmosphere (or the wrong kind) they would merely need sunlight as their body cycles between cellular respiration and photosynthesis.

Nothing like them exists on Earth-- we are merely the haphazard result of the random chance of fate and natural selection, while Orks are beings whom are purpose-built by a godlike race of beings for the sole purpose of war in a galaxy which whose laws of physics can be bent by people with a strong enough will and the right genetics-- genetics Orks have, as every Ork produces a gestalt psychic field which is further amplified by proximity to other Orks.

With the Ork leaking blood (because of bolter shot at gut) proper cellular respiration (due to a significant amount of disconnected veins, capillaries and arteries) won't be able to occur meaning it will start to lose one

of it's waste products carbon dioxide (the chemical essential to photosynthesis). This lack of carbon dioxide will make it impossible for photosynthesis to occur so both forms of respiration are effectively eliminated for

the ork.

And yet, they often survive anyway. Why? Because they're Orks, that's why, and that's what Orks do, they survive to fight another day.

All of the scientific mumbo-jumbo of how plants or fungi or animals do this, that and the other thing with blood, chlorophyll or whatever doesn't matter, because it doesn't apply to a sentient, fungoid-animal designed as the ultimate weapon of mass destruction by a race of god-like alien beings.

It does apply if they want to be living.

The fact that they want to be living and think they should be living is enough to keep them living, regardless of injuries.

Orks are kind of cool that way.

Cheesecat wrote:

Psienesis wrote:

Cheesecat wrote:

Melissia wrote:

Cheesecat wrote:I don't think you understand, all animals need blood without it you die this isn't something that just essential to humans. And also photosynthesis only works if there's CO2 and sunlight.

I understand full well-- probably a damned sight better than you do, considering that what you said is actually incorrect. Not all animals have blood as we have it (especially invertebrates)-- in some animals, blood is completely disconnected from the transport of oxygen to the body.

You also seem to forget that in photosynthesis, CO2 is turned into O2 (along with sugar, with the specifics of depending on the nature of the plant). In many (not all-- some use sulfur for example) animals, O2 is utilized in cellular respiration to produce adenosine triphosphate, and CO2 as a waste product. Theoretically, Orks would be able to benefit from either gas depending on the atmosphere, and in a place with little or no atmosphere (or the wrong kind) they would merely need sunlight as their body cycles between cellular respiration and photosynthesis.

Nothing like them exists on Earth-- we are merely the haphazard result of the random chance of fate and natural selection, while Orks are beings whom are purpose-built by a godlike race of beings for the sole purpose of war in a galaxy which whose laws of physics can be bent by people with a strong enough will and the right genetics-- genetics Orks have, as every Ork produces a gestalt psychic field which is further amplified by proximity to other Orks.

With the Ork leaking blood (because of bolter shot at gut) proper cellular respiration (due to a significant amount of disconnected veins, capillaries and arteries) won't be able to occur meaning it will start to lose one

of it's waste products carbon dioxide (the chemical essential to photosynthesis). This lack of carbon dioxide will make it impossible for photosynthesis to occur so both forms of respiration are effectively eliminated for

the ork.

And yet, they often survive anyway. Why? Because they're Orks, that's why, and that's what Orks do, they survive to fight another day.

All of the scientific mumbo-jumbo of how plants or fungi or animals do this, that and the other thing with blood, chlorophyll or whatever doesn't matter, because it doesn't apply to a sentient, fungoid-animal designed as the ultimate weapon of mass destruction by a race of god-like alien beings.

It does apply if they want to be living.

We have seen Orks defy physics countless times.
Living for a bit longer after suffering a mortal wound should be relatively easy for them to do.

i have seen a game of fantasy orks and 40k orks going against eachother. not sure what rules editions, but, they were evenly matched. it was fun to see.

purplefood wrote:

Cheesecat wrote:

Psienesis wrote:

Cheesecat wrote:

Melissia wrote:

Cheesecat wrote:I don't think you understand, all animals need blood without it you die this isn't something that just essential to humans. And also photosynthesis only works if there's CO2 and sunlight.

I understand full well-- probably a damned sight better than you do, considering that what you said is actually incorrect. Not all animals have blood as we have it (especially invertebrates)-- in some animals, blood is completely disconnected from the transport of oxygen to the body.

You also seem to forget that in photosynthesis, CO2 is turned into O2 (along with sugar, with the specifics of depending on the nature of the plant). In many (not all-- some use sulfur for example) animals, O2 is utilized in cellular respiration to produce adenosine triphosphate, and CO2 as a waste product. Theoretically, Orks would be able to benefit from either gas depending on the atmosphere, and in a place with little or no atmosphere (or the wrong kind) they would merely need sunlight as their body cycles between cellular respiration and photosynthesis.

Nothing like them exists on Earth-- we are merely the haphazard result of the random chance of fate and natural selection, while Orks are beings whom are purpose-built by a godlike race of beings for the sole purpose of war in a galaxy which whose laws of physics can be bent by people with a strong enough will and the right genetics-- genetics Orks have, as every Ork produces a gestalt psychic field which is further amplified by proximity to other Orks.

With the Ork leaking blood (because of bolter shot at gut) proper cellular respiration (due to a significant amount of disconnected veins, capillaries and arteries) won't be able to occur meaning it will start to lose one

of it's waste products carbon dioxide (the chemical essential to photosynthesis). This lack of carbon dioxide will make it impossible for photosynthesis to occur so both forms of respiration are effectively eliminated for

the ork.

And yet, they often survive anyway. Why? Because they're Orks, that's why, and that's what Orks do, they survive to fight another day.

All of the scientific mumbo-jumbo of how plants or fungi or animals do this, that and the other thing with blood, chlorophyll or whatever doesn't matter, because it doesn't apply to a sentient, fungoid-animal designed as the ultimate weapon of mass destruction by a race of god-like alien beings.

It does apply if they want to be living.

We have seen Orks defy physics countless times.
Living for a bit longer after suffering a mortal wound should be relatively easy for them to do.

I have no problem with that.

I believe they can, as they are the same species

you can actually cut the head of a 40k ork and plant it in the ground. theres a picture of it in the ork codex. they also describe how they can survive having the head cut off and then reattached after several hours.

Try days.

Orks are just that tough. Nasty little buggers, who make Marines look kinda delicate in comparison.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

UselessSage wrote:Orkoid blud ~ black, ?????? based?

Fungus-based blood. It's also why it smells so damn bad.

Not to mention that it's not just the Blood that's working to keep them alive. The fungus is spread throughout their bodies, in all their cells. This means, when they get shot in the gut, and a big meaty chunk is blown out of them, all those little veigns and vesicles that are leaking out 'highly toxic blood substitute' will probably constrict and close up, most likely very, very quickly. Not just clotting, but something akin to cauterization and near-immediate scarring.

Then the Ork just uses its other 3 stomachs and 2 livers to keep living.

Anvildude wrote:Not to mention that it's not just the Blood that's working to keep them alive. The fungus is spread throughout their bodies, in all their cells. This means, when they get shot in the gut, and a big meaty chunk is blown out of them, all those little veigns and vesicles that are leaking out 'highly toxic blood substitute' will probably constrict and close up, most likely very, very quickly. Not just clotting, but something akin to cauterization and near-immediate scarring.

Then the Ork just uses its other 3 stomachs and 2 livers to keep living.

Veins and arteries constrict due to osmotic and blood pressure they do not have there own form of nervous stimuli that reacts to open wounds plus that would contradict the ork fluff of having simple and robust bodies.

You couldn't have a biotic material that would constrict upon contact with air?

Yes, that is true for human veins and arteries.

Orks aren't human. Their blood isn't even blood as we know it.

Well yeah, so theirs would work even better, completely constricting to keep the 'precious' fluid in. I'm on your side, here!

I think Melissa is responding to Cheesecat, not you.

I agree, though. These are sci-fi Orks in a sci-fi setting, our understanding of biological systems is meaningless in a fictional setting.

You can't really compare Orks to humans, they are extremely different, and there are many fluff cases that show orks can survive horrendous injuries, Examples are: Ghazgkull took a bolter shell to the head, which blew part of it off, and lived, Grotsniks brain was exposed for hours, poked prodded, shocked, and vomited in and he survived, Zagstruk had his legs ripped of by a dread, then gnawed through the wiring, Wazzdakka flew through a titan canopy and void shields completly on fire, and lived. Orks can survive almost anything provided you can piece them back together because there are enough pieces.

Cheesecat: What are you hoping for in this discussion? the minute details of the ork metabolism is at best a mystery. To compare it to anything humanoid is close to impossible and your bound to fail finding justification in science for the way they work. Besides, a lot of other things in 40k are contrary to reality.

Melissia wrote:Yes, that is true for human veins and arteries.

Orks aren't human. Their blood isn't even blood as we know it.

I'll say it again having blood vessels that would constrict upon open wounds, would mean they would need there own nervous system to react to the changes which would be a fluff contradiction because Ork bodies are

simple and robust.

Cheesecat wrote:

Melissia wrote:Yes, that is true for human veins and arteries.

Orks aren't human. Their blood isn't even blood as we know it.

I'll say it again having blood vessels that would constrict upon open wounds, would mean they would need there own nervous system to react to the changes

No it wouldn't.

A body doesn't need direct input from the nervous system to react to outside threats in a chemical manner.

Cheesecat wrote:*most of what he's said*

*headdesk*
They're aliens. They can stich their heads back on. They can survive having their exposed brain puked on, electrecuted and lived in by a spider, and suffer almost no ill effects. I even recall that their blood serves a double duty as their digestive fluid. They probably dont have arteries, just tubes that the blood goes through cause it does. And if it's red, it goes faster. It even congeals really fast into new tissues so the ork can back into the fight. They don't even really need to breathe. They have an alien biology, so just drop comparing them to squishy earth creatures.

Melissia wrote:

Cheesecat wrote:

Melissia wrote:Yes, that is true for human veins and arteries.

Orks aren't human. Their blood isn't even blood as we know it.

I'll say it again having blood vessels that would constrict upon open wounds, would mean they would need there own nervous system to react to the changes

No it wouldn't.

A body doesn't need direct input from the nervous system to react to outside threats in a chemical manner.

Closing blood vessels that react to open wounds is a reflex reaction not a chemical one.

Cheesecat wrote:

Melissia wrote:

Cheesecat wrote:

Melissia wrote:Yes, that is true for human veins and arteries.

Orks aren't human. Their blood isn't even blood as we know it.

I'll say it again having blood vessels that would constrict upon open wounds, would mean they would need there own nervous system to react to the changes

No it wouldn't.

A body doesn't need direct input from the nervous system to react to outside threats in a chemical manner.

Closing blood vessels that react to open wounds is a reflex reaction not a chemical one.

Then clearly they do have a Nervous system...

Cheesecat wrote:

Melissia wrote:

Cheesecat wrote:

Melissia wrote:Yes, that is true for human veins and arteries.

Orks aren't human. Their blood isn't even blood as we know it.

I'll say it again having blood vessels that would constrict upon open wounds, would mean they would need there own nervous system to react to the changes

No it wouldn't.

A body doesn't need direct input from the nervous system to react to outside threats in a chemical manner.

Closing blood vessels that react to open wounds is a reflex reaction not a chemical one.

To quote Lex Luthor:


"WRONG!"

Right, it doesn't take muscles to close up arteries.

Anvildude wrote:

Cheesecat wrote:

Melissia wrote:

Cheesecat wrote:

Melissia wrote:Yes, that is true for human veins and arteries.

Orks aren't human. Their blood isn't even blood as we know it.

I'll say it again having blood vessels that would constrict upon open wounds, would mean they would need there own nervous system to react to the changes

No it wouldn't.

A body doesn't need direct input from the nervous system to react to outside threats in a chemical manner.

Closing blood vessels that react to open wounds is a reflex reaction not a chemical one.

To quote Lex Luthor:


"WRONG!"

Prove it.

Simple. Our human veins already constrict and relax without nervous input due to them reacting and interacting with the various factors in our circulatory system.

Why should an Ork, whom was designed from the ground up rather than the result of the random hand of fate, not be able to also do this?

Cheesecat wrote:

Melissia wrote:

Cheesecat wrote:

Melissia wrote:Yes, that is true for human veins and arteries.

Orks aren't human. Their blood isn't even blood as we know it.

I'll say it again having blood vessels that would constrict upon open wounds, would mean they would need there own nervous system to react to the changes

No it wouldn't.

A body doesn't need direct input from the nervous system to react to outside threats in a chemical manner.

Closing blood vessels that react to open wounds is a reflex reaction not a chemical one.

Go cut a tree, see the sap. Is it pouring out of the tree? Plants do not follow the same rules animals do, Orks are both.

Melissia wrote:Simple. Our human veins already constrict and relax without nervous input due to them reacting and interacting with the various factors in our circulatory system.

Why should an Ork, whom was designed from the ground up rather than the result of the random hand of fate, not be able to also do this?

That's due to osmotic and blood pressure, you'll notice that if you had a chopped off arm your blood vessels don't just magically constrict where the wound is they are still leaking lots of blood. For your arteries to do

that it would need a nervous system of it's own something so complex that not even humans much less an ork have.

No, that's not the only reason for vasodilation/vasoconstriction.

Melissia wrote:No, that's not the only reason for vasodilation/vasoconstriction.

You're right, but getting back to the example of the with the major gut wound how this going to help him properly circulate his blood though?

For the same reason that they can have their heads lopped off and put back on days later and still be perfectly fine, no brain damage.

Melissia wrote:For the same reason that they can have their heads lopped off and put back on days later and still be perfectly fine, no brain damage.

Never mind just found a solution to the lack of non-circulated blood problem, plants don't actually need much CO2 in the atmosphere to photosynthesize (considering the air we breathe only has 0.0039% of it) so in

most encounters with humans there should be enough sunlight, water and CO2 for the orks for to photosynthesize which will provide the necessary requirements for cellular respiration (what keeps you alive) even if

they can't properly circulate their blood (massive gut wound). But still the ork with hole in his gut will die without intensive care because he won't be able to properly digest food with massive trauma to his intestines.

Yes it would, IF he had a human digestive system.

Melissia wrote:Yes it would, IF he had a human digestive system.

How does an ork absorb waters and nutrients from food without intestines?

Cheesecat wrote:

Melissia wrote:Yes it would, IF he had a human digestive system.

How does an ork absorb waters and nutrients from food without intestines?

There is a wide variety of digestive systems in our world. Several of them I have already had the privilege to disect myself...

If what passes as the Ork's "blood" (insofar as we can actually call it that) is full of fungus-- and it is-- it could very well be that the fungus itself is capable of breaking down nutrients in an emergency. This is part of their multiple redundant organs thing that I mentioned numerous times before.

You're really too stuck on the human biology. Orks aren't human. Orks aren't even terrestrial. They're alien in just about every way imaginable to us.

Melissia wrote:

Cheesecat wrote:

Melissia wrote:Yes it would, IF he had a human digestive system.

How does an ork absorb waters and nutrients from food without intestines?

There is a wide variety of digestive systems in our world. Several of them I have already had the privilege to disect myself...

If what passes as the Ork's "blood" (insofar as we can actually call it that) is full of fungus-- and it is-- it could very well be that the fungus itself is capable of breaking down nutrients in an emergency. This is part of their multiple redundant organs thing that I mentioned numerous times before.

You're really too stuck on the human biology. Orks aren't human. Orks aren't even terrestrial. They're alien in just about every way imaginable to us.

It's not so much as being too stuck to human anatomy (the reason I make most of my comparisons to them is because it's what I'm most familiar with in biology at this moment and time), but more of a need for an

actually plausible and logical way to have that much damage to the gut and live (which you provided thank-you very much ). Because someone saying they're "alien" just seems like a cop-out to me but if

provided with good support I'll agree to or at least see why they defended that argument. Either way you thoroughly explained how an Ork can survive a gut wound that would kill a human, and answered all the

"why's" of the situation, so our debate here is done, good on you.

I'm not saying they're aliens, but that they're alien-- "Unfamiliar and disturbing or distasteful"

In the case of Orkoid biology, probably all three.

Though they are Alien as well. Don't let that confuse you.

I think maybe, for those who are still confused about the whole 'alien biology' thing, think about Vulcans in Star Trek. They have two hearts and green blood. Now I don't quite know how the blood thing works (Sulfur based?) but with the second heart, if they get stabbed in the chest, a little to the left of the sternum, well, it may do absolutely nothing. Either neither heart is even there... (two hearts means they're probably both smaller, and less 'centralized' in the body) or one heart is damaged, but the other keeps going, doing the work of both, and the Vulcan is fine. Bleeding heavily, but relatively fine, compared to what a human would look like in that situation (i.e. dead).

Psienesis wrote:Orks aren't animals... or invertebrates. They're a animal-plant-hybrid specifically built to wage war........Being a fungus.

This has got the stop, fungus are not plants, they are completely different species

tarnish wrote:
As for fantasy being in the 40k world as another planet, even if that is so, it could be in an entirely different galaxy or even universe. It could be happening millions of years before the imperium of man, or after its gone. Theres just no way of knowing.

There is a way, GW have said that the 2 universes are completely seperate, they did toy with the idea that fantasy was in the 40k universe with hints that Sigmar was a primarch, but they have completely seperated the 2.

BluntmanDC wrote:

Psienesis wrote:Orks aren't animals... or invertebrates. They're a animal-plant-hybrid specifically built to wage war........Being a fungus.

This has got the stop, fungus are not plants, they are completely different species

Also, they are a HYBRID. There is standard DNA in an orkish cell, ergo it's perfectly fine to call an ork an animal.

Right, they really don't fit the definition of plant anyway. Sure they probably photosynthesize, and parts of their bodies have cell walls, but they are motile and intelligent creatures, warm-blooded ones to boot (at least more than likely warm blooded at any rate give their constant activity regardless of climate).

Melissia wrote:Right, they really don't fit the definition of plant anyway. Sure they probably photosynthesize, and parts of their bodies have cell walls, but they are motile and intelligent creatures, warm-blooded ones to boot (at least more than likely warm blooded at any rate give their constant activity regardless of climate).

Photosynthesis would go some way to explaining how they're able to grow so large within such a short length of time, I suppose. However, the green skin may not be due to the presence of chlorophyll, but just a side effect of algal and fungal DNA strains. Fungi in general don't photosynthesise, after all. At least, I don't recall them doing so...

They grow large because Gork & Mork determine who is to rule what Orks based on their size. The bigger an Ork is, the more In Charge he is. This is fundamentally recognized by all Orks, which establishes their heirarchal war-band societies. The only problems arise when two Bosses are the same size, and so must fight to see who's the biggest Ork dere is. of course, the victor from these squabbles grows larger, as a sign of his victory.

Psienesis wrote:They grow large because Gork & Mork determine who is to rule what Orks based on their size. The bigger an Ork is, the more In Charge he is. This is fundamentally recognized by all Orks, which establishes their heirarchal war-band societies. The only problems arise when two Bosses are the same size, and so must fight to see who's the biggest Ork dere is. of course, the victor from these squabbles grows larger, as a sign of his victory.

Well, yeah, but growth requires our old friends Respiration and Protein Synthesis. Orks have to get the base materials from somewhere.

I think it actually involves nothing except the divine intervention of Gork & Mork. Everything else is secondary.

Orks survive in the vacuum of space. Respiration is an option to them.

Oh, I definitely think it has a biological aspect to it. After all, they're a designed race.

And they probably do photosynthesize, because they can survive for extended periods in space. This would allow them to create and break down their own sugars for a limited time simply using the CO2 in their blood and food in their bellies (or equivalent organ), which would then leave O2 in their blood to be utilized in cellular respiration as well as sugars for energy.

Assuming it's even O2 that they use to begin with.