So are there any? Didn't think about one until I saw this:


I would collect them, they look so tough in armor. And so sweet in the same time

Cadians probably have a good mix of women in their regiments due to everyone needing to fight and all.

Don't think there are any all female Cadian regiments, but I wouldn't put it past the writers of 40k as there is an all female Valhallan regiment.

A bit creepy and slightly sexist but i don't judge... well i do but not out loud... much anyway.
It would be possible, probably for an interior guard regiment rather than a regiment that went of into the galaxy at large.

That picture would be perfect, if it weren't for the disgusting amount of makeup. As it is, the makeup makes her look like some sort of whore cosplaying for a client.

There are, and it's mentioned that women make up the majority of the Interior Guard regiments.

Melissia wrote:As it is, the makeup makes her look like some sort of whore cosplaying for a client.

With a Hellgun


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Kanluwen wrote:There are, and it's mentioned that women make up the majority of the Interior Guard regiments.

So the logic is men are going to galaxy and fight while woman fight at home?

The logic is that the women are needed to breed more cadians, while the men are rather expendable in comparison.

Essentially, sexist to both genders in a purely logical and non-biased away.

Melissia wrote:That picture would be perfect, if it weren't for the disgusting amount of makeup. As it is, the makeup makes her look like some sort of whore cosplaying for a client.

Yes, that is an excessive amount of makeup, especially for a soldier.

On another thing, it seems like a good idea to have women in the Guard. Leaving the fighting to the men has a few problems, the first and foremost among them would mean far less fighters than a gender integrated army.


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Oh, and GW needs to look good to feminists, and they aren't doing a very good job IMO

Melissia wrote:The logic is that the women are needed to breed more cadians, while the men are rather expendable in comparison.

Essentially, sexist to both genders in a purely logical and non-biased away.

Logically Nurse Buxom would assist every departing guardsman in leaving a sample for freezing. Weather or not the swimmers in that sample (if any) are used to make more little guardsmen and how many should come down to the service record of the donor.

Something similar could be done for guardswomen, may even simplify things if all the eggs were scraped.

The Krieg'ers use Vitae Vats, are the Cadians wham-bam-thank-you-Ma'am?

I honestly don't know, but I wouldn't be surprised if some Cadian regiments used artificial wombs.

After all a pregnant soldier can't exactly fight as well anyway.

Cadia, though a fortress world, isn't a poison-swamped, nuclear wasteland like Krieg so... yeah, probably more of the latter, less of the former.

What about women Commisars?

wait a sec.... women in the Imperial Guard exists. There is also a commander in the high ranks.

As far as I know, there is no sexism (generally speaking) in the Imperium except for the Adeptus Astartes for obvious reasons (gene seed manipulation problems). So it is fairly good to assume that females do take an active part fighting in the Imperial Guard... from soldiers to commissars to generals.

EDIT

but let's remember that things changes from planet to planet. Valhalla might have one female regiment because they are basically WW2 Soviets and doing a thing like this, has sense.

KOS wrote:but let's remember that things changes from planet to planet. Valhalla might have one female regiment because they are basically WW2 Soviets and doing a thing like this, has sense.

It's up to the planet to worry about gender ratios. The Imperium merely orders that a given planet provide X number of regiments for the IG. Aside from what appears to be a policy of encouraging new regiments to be segregated along gender lines, the Imperium appears to be largely oblivious to the genders of the people filling the ranks. The only time that the Imperium is likely to start meddling with the recruits that a planet sends up is if there is a marked lack of quality.

That picture does seem a bit heavy on the make up. Actually, any make up at all would be too much for a soldier.

There is definitely sexism in the Imperium, although because of the variety of worlds there are probably a fair few female dominated ones. For an example of sexism, there has only ever been one Lady General (Jenit Sulla) ever recorded. As for female commissars, they are usually only assigned to female regiments.

As for Cadia, there have to be a fair amount of female regiments as the birth and conscription rates are the same.

in the novel Helsreach there were women that was mentioned many times. Especially the one that was an advisor I believe, but also one that was a storm trooper and was supposed to be beautiful.

xXSir MontyXx wrote: but also one that was a storm trooper and was supposed to be beautiful.

Maybe it's a beautiful man

Anyway, I think it is a stupid rule to have both female and male Regiments...
When in a companion of a female man are more relaxed and that is good for moral.
Not to mention female can help solders ease their fear and despair before battle...

Why was that rule invented in first place?

Brother Coa wrote:

xXSir MontyXx wrote: but also one that was a storm trooper and was supposed to be beautiful.

Maybe it's a beautiful man

Haha no!

No, no all female regiments. Women are just included in regiments.
The same as those porny-looking drawngs of other things of 40k. Would be fun to see a female Death Korps of Krieg.

thenoobbomb wrote:No, no all female regiments. Women are just included in regiments.
The same as those porny-looking drawngs of other things of 40k. Would be fun to see a female Death Korps of Krieg.

how would you tell, between the gas mask and trench coat there arent many noticeable features.

KOS wrote:wait a sec.... women in the Imperial Guard exists. There is also a commander in the high ranks.

As far as I know, there is no sexism (generally speaking) in the Imperium except for the Adeptus Astartes for obvious reasons (gene seed manipulation problems). So it is fairly good to assume that females do take an active part fighting in the Imperial Guard... from soldiers to commissars to generals.

The imperium is sexist, and racist, xenophobic even. The don't like mutants, they don't like people who follow the wrong religion and they don't like people who know too much about anything.

thenoobbomb wrote:Would be fun to see a female Death Korps of Krieg.

Aren't DKoK all clones of the same guy?

Howard A Treesong wrote:The imperium is sexist, and racist, xenophobic even. The don't like mutants, they don't like people who follow the wrong religion and they don't like people who know too much about anything.

Mutants already almost wiped out humanity, and frequently are the result of Chaotic corruption.
"Following the wrong religion" often means giving aid to real creatures that want to eat you and/or your soul.

Just because they discriminate against people who would destroy humanity through malice or incompetence does not mean they necessarily hold every imaginable prejudice. I far prefer a "black and white lived in perfect harmony and ganged up on green" take on things, where pre-Imperium humanity largely overcame such prejudices as racism, sexism and homophobia, only to learn new ones from bloody experience.

DkoK aren't technically clones...

thenoobbomb wrote:No, no all female regiments.

Yes, they exist.


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Brother Coa wrote:What about women Commisars?

They exist, but they're rare as most female Schola Progenium students are pushed towards the Adepta Sororitas. Remember, the Ecclesiarchy basically runs it, even if other organizations benefit greatly from it and probably have a lot of input.

thenoobbomb wrote:No, no all female regiments. Women are just included in regiments.
The same as those porny-looking drawngs of other things of 40k. Would be fun to see a female Death Korps of Krieg.

Actually the opposite is true. There are usually only mono-gender regiments. Female regiments are very common - women are given the chance, nay, expected, to do their bit for the Emperor also.

The very few mixed-gender regiments are the exception (Valhallan 597th and the Tanith First and Only being the most famous ones).

Brother Coa wrote:What about women Commisars?

General Commissar Balashin
Noted for her exception fury when hunitng odwn corruption (GG)

thenoobbomb wrote:No, no all female regiments. Women are just included in regiments.
The same as those porny-looking drawngs of other things of 40k. Would be fun to see a female Death Korps of Krieg.

The dreadful secret of the Death Korps, they're all actually women under those gas masks!

Howard A Treesong wrote:

KOS wrote:wait a sec.... women in the Imperial Guard exists. There is also a commander in the high ranks.

As far as I know, there is no sexism (generally speaking) in the Imperium except for the Adeptus Astartes for obvious reasons (gene seed manipulation problems). So it is fairly good to assume that females do take an active part fighting in the Imperial Guard... from soldiers to commissars to generals.

The imperium is sexist, and racist, xenophobic even. The don't like mutants, they don't like people who follow the wrong religion and they don't like people who know too much about anything.

Can you give an actual example of the IoM being sexist? probably not.

Humanity in the IoM general isn't racist (the all serve the Emperor), although interaction between different worlds can be strained due to language problems, and different cultures.

Xenophobia is fairly common seeing as aliens exist and as a whole they all treat other species in the sme way, enemies. its perfectly fine to be xenophobic if their is actually something to fear.

Religion is completely different to the real world in 40k, because actual beings exist in the 40k universe that like to get worshipped and like to see humans tortured and killed. also most mutants represent either a clear and present danger to the stability of the human gene pool or are the direct work of the warp.

Xenopobia and religious hatred may be very wrong in the world we have now, but in the 40k universe it is common sence and fully justified.


As to the picture, it would be good if it was actually accurate, in the 40k universe a IG soldier wouldn't have time to do makeup and they don't stay pretty for long.

A phobia is an irrational fear so the imperium isn't xenophobic either since they do have something to fear

Hlaine Larkin mk2 wrote:A phobia is an irrational fear so the imperium isn't xenophobic either since they do have something to fear

Actually a phobia is an irrational fear or hatred of something.
The Imperium technically has a reason to hate Aliens so it isn't really Xenophobia...

purplefood wrote:

Hlaine Larkin mk2 wrote:A phobia is an irrational fear so the imperium isn't xenophobic either since they do have something to fear

Actually a phobia is an irrational fear or hatred of something.
The Imperium technically has a reason to hate Aliens so it isn't really Xenophobia...

I guess in some cases though there really arent reasons to hate Eldar and Tau. They could get along if they really wanted to.....

Hmm... so, female regiments exist. They are very important to the warmachine: make moar imperial guard!! (yes, im being sexist now)

Honestly a strict woman makes me more nervous than a strict man. Female commisars would make me **** my pants.

BluntmanDC wrote:Can you give an actual example of the IoM being sexist? probably not.

There aren't any men in the Sororitas! I cry sexism!




On a more serious note, women appear to be extremely underrepresented in the upper ranks (i.e. higher than Colonel) of the Imperial Guard. It's unknown whether this is evidence of bias when promotion time comes around, or something else - though the former seems more likely.

I guess in some cases though there really arent reasons to hate Eldar and Tau. They could get along if they really wanted to.....

Not true. The eldar will happily sacrifice your world and everyone on it if it means that a handful of their own kind survive. They'll also mercilessly lie to you and manipulate you without a moment of hesitation. The Tau, on the other hand, will attempt to cause you (by persuasion at first; the guns come out only if the persuasion doesn't work) to abandon your faith in the Emperor and follow their own creed instead.

Actually I mostly blame the lack of women in the upper ranks on GW's lore being written almost entirely by men.

Melissia wrote:Actually I mostly blame the lack of women in the upper ranks on GW's lore being written almost entirely by men.

That would do it. That, and the fact that most 40k players are male. Women being in positions of power scare males.

Either that or arouse them, it depends on the person.

thenoobbomb wrote:Hmm... so, female regiments exist. They are very important to the warmachine: make moar imperial guard!! (yes, im being sexist now)

Its not sexist to know the biological fact that women are needed to produce children (either in carrying them or in tithing eggs to be fertilised in artificial wombs), The IG die in massive numbers so having a good 'breeding stock' isn't sexist, its common sense.

Not true. The eldar will happily sacrifice your world and everyone on it if it means that a handful of their own kind survive. They'll also mercilessly lie to you and manipulate you without a moment of hesitation. The Tau, on the other hand, will attempt to cause you (by persuasion at first; the guns come out only if the persuasion doesn't work) to abandon your faith in the Emperor and follow their own creed instead.

True but the Imperium would do the same thing to an Eldar planet. It really isn't wrong to the Eldar for them to do that. Every race for itself and all. I see where your coming from saying that would piss off the Imperium and make them distrust them, however if they were allies they may not make that sacrifice....

BluntmanDC wrote:

thenoobbomb wrote:Hmm... so, female regiments exist. They are very important to the warmachine: make moar imperial guard!! (yes, im being sexist now)

Its not sexist to know the biological fact that women are needed to produce children (either in carrying them or in tithing eggs to be fertilised in artificial wombs), The IG die in massive numbers so having a good 'breeding stock' isn't sexist, its common sense.

It is sexist.

An army doesn't just need cannon fodder, it needs infrastructure. By the time the question of preserving your "breeding stock" comes up when deciding who should join the military, you have already lost.

Oooow things are heating up in ere. Both sides have equal points, all well made. Perhaps Forge World could easly make some female imp regements. Least that way everyone has a choice.


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Oooow things are heating up in ere. Both sides have equal points, all well made. Perhaps Forge World could easly make some female imp regements. Least that way everyone has a choice.

BluntmanDC wrote:Can you give an actual example of the IoM being sexist? probably not.

Humanity in the IoM general isn't racist (the all serve the Emperor), although interaction between different worlds can be strained due to language problems, and different cultures.

Xenophobia is fairly common seeing as aliens exist and as a whole they all treat other species in the sme way, enemies. its perfectly fine to be xenophobic if their is actually something to fear.

Religion is completely different to the real world in 40k, because actual beings exist in the 40k universe that like to get worshipped and like to see humans tortured and killed. also most mutants represent either a clear and present danger to the stability of the human gene pool or are the direct work of the warp.

Xenopobia and religious hatred may be very wrong in the world we have now, but in the 40k universe it is common sence and fully justified.

AlexHolker wrote:

BluntmanDC wrote:

thenoobbomb wrote:Hmm... so, female regiments exist. They are very important to the warmachine: make moar imperial guard!! (yes, im being sexist now)

Its not sexist to know the biological fact that women are needed to produce children (either in carrying them or in tithing eggs to be fertilised in artificial wombs), The IG die in massive numbers so having a good 'breeding stock' isn't sexist, its common sense.

It is sexist.

An army doesn't just need cannon fodder, it needs infrastructure. By the time the question of preserving your "breeding stock" comes up when deciding who should join the military, you have already lost.

Oh course it's sexist. As we've discussed there's hardly any female commissars, the women are kept in units in the inner planets for "breeding stock" while men are more commonly placed on the front line for cannon fodder.



Religious hatred and xenophobia are never justified. By definition they are irrational fears and prejudices.

Xenophobia isn't the fear/hate of tyranids but their automatic reaction to all species not like humanity - what of the various other species that are more benign? Most of these species are in the background fluff because the major threats like Necrons and Orks are given major armies. They used to have beastmen in the IG now they don't, they've always been dubious of various ab-humans even when they prove their loyalty time and again. They rarely if ever seem to extend the hand of friendship to a new alien race choosing instead to exterminate it. They hate mutants. Not all mutants are bad, that's pretty obvious isn't it? Not every mutant worships chaos, but that's the assumption they make. They don't like psykers either, unless they can imprison them or take them into the inquisition. Rogue psykers are forbidden.

They do hate other 'religions'. You have to follow the Emperor. They don't even like certain interpretations of the Emperor. Now the Emperor is a man, he's powerful but he's a man and people should respect he's the Emperor but why worship him as a god? What if you want to be an atheist? What if you believe in some other higher (not chaos) power? Not every body who rejects worshipping the emperor as a god is a chaos cultist, but the imperium don't seem to care.

Howard A Treesong: The Imperium DOES offer diplomats to xenos that are peaceful. The thing is, ninety nine percent of all xenos races are violent and the best thing you can hope for is that they want to eat you. Everything else they would use humanity for is something I'd call a fate worse than death. Such as one particular species feasting on hormones in the human brain-- so basically you're brutally killed, and the last thing you experience is having your brains sucked out so the creature could infiltrate your family, torment your loved ones, and brutally kill them only to suck THEIR brains out and continue the cycle throughout the rest of your society-- your friends, your coworkers, etc.

Melissia wrote:Howard A Treesong: The Imperium DOES offer diplomats to xenos that are peaceful. The thing is, ninety nine percent of all xenos races are violent and the best thing you can hope for is that they want to eat you. Everything else they would use humanity for is something I'd call a fate worse than death. Such as one particular species feasting on hormones in the human brain-- so basically you're brutally killed, and the last thing you experience is having your brains sucked out so the creature could infiltrate your family, torment your loved ones, and brutally kill them only to suck THEIR brains out and continue the cycle throughout the rest of your society-- your friends, your coworkers, etc.

What species is this?

Melissia wrote:Howard A Treesong: The Imperium DOES offer diplomats to xenos that are peaceful.

Which ones though? All the ab-humans are, well human to begin with. Could they not cooperate with the Tau? Weren't they just going to wipe the Tau out until their planet became inaccessible? Then when they came back to colonise the Tau were more advanced, they have a real reason to fear humanity.

Howard A Treesong wrote:

Melissia wrote:Howard A Treesong: The Imperium DOES offer diplomats to xenos that are peaceful.

Which ones though? All the ab-humans are, well human to begin with. Could they not cooperate with the Tau? Weren't they just going to wipe the Tau out until their planet became inaccessible? Then when they came back to colonise the Tau were more advanced, they have a real reason to fear humanity.

The Democles gulf crusade was an aggressive response to the absorption of a few Imperial worlds into the greater good. Had they not done this they may be our allies as of now.The Eldar and the Imperium were going to have peace talks until one of our representatives was possessed and slaughtered all the Eldar at the meeting, they are kinda sour at us about that still.......

So tha about ends the oh so long list of potential allies......

Howard A Treesong wrote:Oh course it's sexist. As we've discussed there's hardly any female commissars

Religious hatred and xenophobia are never justified. By definition they are irrational fears and prejudices.

1. All commissars, storm troopers and sisters of battle all come from the same place, most girls get sent to the sisters of battle who do fight on the front line (now it is sexist in the that women get preferential, i.e. they are only chosen) .

2. Your original point is now invalid by your new statement, the IoM is neither xenophobic or religio-phobic as they are fully justified and not irrational fears (in the 40k universe). It is not irrational to fear a tyranid, it is not irrational to fear a chaos worshipper, as they are trying to kill you. That is by its very definition a very rational fear.

Melissia wrote:The logic is that the women are needed to breed more cadians, while the men are rather expendable in comparison.

Essentially, sexist to both genders in a purely logical and non-biased away.

Not even remotely sexist, basic survivalist.

From a pure survival of the species mentality, you can have far more men die and still carry on as a society/civilization. Sending your women off to fight is simply bad survival strategy.

Nothing to do with sexism at all.

It is when you have the technology to produce artificial wombs which allow both genders to be on the battlefield. Which they do, as that's how DKoK cloning works basically.


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coolyo294 wrote:

Melissia wrote:Howard A Treesong: The Imperium DOES offer diplomats to xenos that are peaceful. The thing is, ninety nine percent of all xenos races are violent and the best thing you can hope for is that they want to eat you. Everything else they would use humanity for is something I'd call a fate worse than death. Such as one particular species feasting on hormones in the human brain-- so basically you're brutally killed, and the last thing you experience is having your brains sucked out so the creature could infiltrate your family, torment your loved ones, and brutally kill them only to suck THEIR brains out and continue the cycle throughout the rest of your society-- your friends, your coworkers, etc.

What species is this?

The Simulacra.

I have always wondered if there are complications with artificial wombs. Maybe a higher percentage of birth-defects?

It's probably just the case of inconsistent writing.

Melissia wrote:That picture would be perfect, if it weren't for the disgusting amount of makeup. As it is, the makeup makes her look like some sort of whore cosplaying for a client.

Ha!!! Mellisa you always make me laugh!

What's terrible though is that you're right.

BluntmanDC wrote:

Howard A Treesong wrote:Oh course it's sexist. As we've discussed there's hardly any female commissars

Religious hatred and xenophobia are never justified. By definition they are irrational fears and prejudices.

2. Your original point is now invalid by your new statement, the IoM is neither xenophobic or religio-phobic as they are fully justified and not irrational fears (in the 40k universe). It is not irrational to fear a tyranid, it is not irrational to fear a chaos worshipper, as they are trying to kill you. That is by its very definition a very rational fear.

How is my original point invalidated? I never said that fearing/hating tyranids and chaos was a sign of xenophobia. It's their prejudice against almost all non-human species that makes them xenophobic. Not *all* species are tyranids and chaos worshippers, many will likely be neutral or friendly if you approach them in the right way. But the imperium don't. They seem to automatically take an aggressive stance against all aliens because they are suspicious of anything not like man. That's xenophobia, fear of the unalike. It's nothing to do with fearing the obviously threats like tyranids, it's the automatic fear and hostility towards everything that isn't human that indicates this.

It's not an irrational fear/hatred because they have a reason to hate them.
It would be irrational if they had never met aliens before but they have and in almost every case they have fought with them.
This view of "Everything different is bad, here we have proof" kinda makes the Imperium slow to change which in turn makes them slow to trust aliens or anything new.

Shayden wrote:
Oh, and GW needs to look good to feminists, and they aren't doing a very good job IMO

It's impossible to please feminists because they're all slightly insane. Fortunately they are a tiny minority of women and not worth trying to please because you'll never get any thanks or better understanding in return. Most females I know hate modern feminists who tend to be more anti-male than pro-female and I think I mentioned insane didn't I?

Agree with Melissia on the make-up comment, that was the first thing that I noticed, the second was the slightly opened mouth and I don't see that facial expression on a Kasrkin of either sex. It's like comparing 1980s action stars with actual pictures of soldiers. The stars with their big hair, perfect skin and gay facial expressions and the harder, I've seen real people killed, look of actual soldiers are poles apart.

cadbren wrote:It's impossible to please feminists because they're all slightly insane

That's one of the dumbest things I've read this week...

The belief that both genders should be treated equally-- IE feminism-- is neither caused by nor indicative of insanity.

Melissia wrote:

cadbren wrote:It's impossible to please feminists because they're all slightly insane

That's one of the dumbest things I've read this week...

The belief that both genders should be treated equally is neither caused by nor indicative of insanity.

I think he means the crazy feminists who just hate men rather than trying to advance women's rights... or try to take away men's rights as some kind of punishment. You know... crazy people...

purplefood wrote:

Melissia wrote:

cadbren wrote:It's impossible to please feminists because they're all slightly insane

That's one of the dumbest things I've read this week...

The belief that both genders should be treated equally is neither caused by nor indicative of insanity.

I think he means the crazy feminists who just hate men rather than trying to advance women's rights... or try to take away men's rights as some kind of punishment. You know... crazy people...

And yet, that is not what he said-- which was a blanket statement insulting all feminists. Because everyone knows you can't believe in equality without being nucking futs.

Melissia wrote:

purplefood wrote:

Melissia wrote:

cadbren wrote:It's impossible to please feminists because they're all slightly insane

That's one of the dumbest things I've read this week...

The belief that both genders should be treated equally is neither caused by nor indicative of insanity.

I think he means the crazy feminists who just hate men rather than trying to advance women's rights... or try to take away men's rights as some kind of punishment. You know... crazy people...

And yet, that is not what he said-- which was a blanket statement insulting all feminists. Because everyone knows you can't believe in equality without being nucking futs.

Hmm... Ironic.

No, that would be sarcasm

Melissia wrote:No, that would be sarcasm

Technically both...
You were being sarcastic but i see irony in the fact you were sarcastically saying that anyone who believe in equality is crazy and yet you come from/live in a country that is... noted for its general... dislike for communism/socialism/marxism which tended to believe in equality... though lets not get into that right now.

Hardly ironic. Communist countries tend to not be very equal anyway, certainly little more if any than capitalist ones. Not even economic equality. Indeed, frequently they actually tend to be less so.

Melissia wrote:Hardly ironic. Communist countries tend to not be very equal anyway, certainly little more if any than capitalist ones. Not even economic equality. Indeed, frequently they actually tend to be less so.

I disagree (with it not being ironic the rest i agree with) but this topic has gone far enough off topic as it is...

Well everyone at GW thinks that only men would play 40k, now when women have become interested in this ( via books or else.. ) they even didn't consider to drop out female models. That's not an excuse, just because woman don't play this in large quantity doesn't mean that we should not have female models.
Times have changed, today we have woman going into military, leading a company or becoming a president or prime minister.
But on 40k defense, they could only put more female models into IG and Tau. ( don't know how much you guys love Boobed Necrons, Tyranids or Orks )

Brother Coa wrote:But on 40k defense, they could only put more female models into IG and Tau. ( don't know how much you guys love Boobed Necrons, Tyranids or Orks )

There are five factions that can have female soldiers (six before they killed off the Diaznettes), but only one even comes close to having an all-female plastic kit.

Well six really, but one of them doesn't have a codex of its own and is instead stuffed other armies' codices: Dark Eldar, Eldar, Inquisition, Sisters of Battle, Tau.

Mind you considering half of all armies is marines and marines are male-only, GW would basically have to introduce FSM (and boy would I spend the whole day laughing then) to even begin to even it out.

At least Orks don't have a gender proper.

I'm not sure if antone has metioned this yet, but in Duty Calls, there is a female Sergeant (Can't remeber her name) and a female inquisitor (Can't remeber her name eihter). Then again, the regiment is from Valhalla

They have mentioned it...
In fact in most of the Cain novels he serves with a mixed gender regiment.

Melissia wrote:Mind you considering half of all armies is marines and marines are male-only.

I don't know whether you are talking about this in a GW selling point-of-view, where the SM are the showponies, But in the fluff, How could one million soldiers possibly compare to the near infinate amount of other soldiers.

115th Cadian Shock Troops wrote:

Melissia wrote:Mind you considering half of all armies is marines and marines are male-only.

I don't know whether you are talking about this in a GW selling point-of-view, where the SM are the showponies, But in the fluff, How could one million soldiers possibly compare to the near infinate amount of other soldiers.

They are a symbol. They are also rarer than the fluff suggests.
They don't often get bogged down in long fights, they need to be a lightning assault force which they are... sometimes.

As I recall, in the book "Cadian Blood" the cadian captain tells the off-world commissar thet the cadians have some kind of breeding programme, rather than using artificial wombs. (Incidentally, I'd not heard of this DKOK stuff before, but then I suppose things like artificial wombs are gonna be considered even freakier than it is nowadays, what with the average Imperial citizen being terrified of the arcane arts of the mechanicus, so the "old fashioned way" might be preferred.)

Thade, the captain who told the Commissar that, was joking.

115th Cadian Shock Troops wrote:

Melissia wrote:Mind you considering half of all armies is marines and marines are male-only.

I don't know whether you are talking about this in a GW selling point-of-view, where the SM are the showponies, But in the fluff, How could one million soldiers possibly compare to the near infinate amount of other soldiers.

I was referring to the number of codices. Thare are seven Marine codices.

BA, BT, CSM, DA, GK, SM, SW.

Melissia wrote:

purplefood wrote:

Melissia wrote:

cadbren wrote:It's impossible to please feminists because they're all slightly insane

That's one of the dumbest things I've read this week...

The belief that both genders should be treated equally is neither caused by nor indicative of insanity.

I think he means the crazy feminists who just hate men rather than trying to advance women's rights... or try to take away men's rights as some kind of punishment. You know... crazy people...

And yet, that is not what he said-- which was a blanket statement insulting all feminists. Because everyone knows you can't believe in equality without being nucking futs.

Unfortunetly, the majority of feminists who gain media attention and say they represent all women/feminists, are usually poor examples of feminists and humans in general, being egotistical fault finders looking for conflict. At the end of the day i prefer the tern equalist, as the term feminist gives a perceived gender bias.

Brother Coa wrote:Well everyone at GW thinks that only men would play 40k, now when women have become interested in this ( via books or else.. ) they even didn't consider to drop out female models. That's not an excuse, just because woman don't play this in large quantity doesn't mean that we should not have female models.
Times have changed, today we have woman going into military, leading a company or becoming a president or prime minister.
But on 40k defense, they could only put more female models into IG and Tau. ( don't know how much you guys love Boobed Necrons, Tyranids or Orks )

This is a very weak statement, not only do GW employ women as branch managers and studio painters, their has also been many women winning golden deamon awards, GW know women play and paint with their minitures, they also know that it is a small percentage.

GW also has female models, Dark Eldar, Eldar, all Sisters of Battle, inquisitors, necromunda, (IG and Tau but in smaller numbers). The main downfall is the lack of proper representation in the IG.

BluntmanDC wrote:IG and Tau but in smaller numbers

Never saw female Guardsman or Fire Warrior...

Aren't all the Guard infantry models ancient by this point? They certainly look like the older models, what with the blobby shape and particularly bad proportions (yes, modern models don't have correct proportions either, but they're better, and look better than actual proportions at that scale).


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Brother Coa wrote:

BluntmanDC wrote:IG and Tau but in smaller numbers

Never saw female Guardsman or Fire Warrior...

There are female fire warrior models, it's just you can't tell because they're all hooved fish aliens in several hundred pounds of armor.

Brother Coa wrote:

BluntmanDC wrote:IG and Tau but in smaller numbers

Never saw female Guardsman or Fire Warrior...

Tau - as already stated has a female firewarrior HQ Commander Shadowsun
IG - Colonel Schaeffer's Last Chancers, tanith first and only

Melissia wrote:Hardly ironic. Communist countries tend to not be very equal anyway, certainly little more if any than capitalist ones. Not even economic equality. Indeed, frequently they actually tend to be less so.

Sarcasm is a form of irony.......

BluntmanDC wrote:
Tau - as already stated has a female firewarrior HQ Commander Shadowsun
IG - Colonel Schaeffer's Last Chancers, tanith first and only

Liek I said, never saw a GUARDWOMAN and Tau female FIRE WARRIOR models.
Shadowsun is a COMMANDER in a BATTLESUIT.
Tanith first and only are not overall IG...

Brother Coa wrote:

BluntmanDC wrote:
Tau - as already stated has a female firewarrior HQ Commander Shadowsun
IG - Colonel Schaeffer's Last Chancers, tanith first and only

Liek I said, never saw a GUARDWOMAN and Tau female FIRE WARRIOR models.
Shadowsun is a COMMANDER in a BATTLESUIT.
Tanith first and only are not overall IG...

Wow pedantic much...
If Shadowsun is a female commander it stands to reason that there are female Fire Warriors. The differences may be impossible to see when they are in their armour.
Tanith 1st and only aren't overall IG but several other novels (Cain series and Last Chancer) has regiments of female guard.
And again if there is a female general it stands to reason there are female guardswomen...

purplefood wrote:
Wow pedantic much...
If Shadowsun is a female commander it stands to reason that there are female Fire Warriors. The differences may be impossible to see when they are in their armour.
Tanith 1st and only aren't overall IG but several other novels (Cain series and Last Chancer) has regiments of female guard.
And again if there is a female general it stands to reason there are female guardswomen...

Like I said, didn't see any female model thus far in that category...

Brother Coa wrote:

BluntmanDC wrote:
Tau - as already stated has a female firewarrior HQ Commander Shadowsun
IG - Colonel Schaeffer's Last Chancers, tanith first and only

Liek I said, never saw a GUARDWOMAN and Tau female FIRE WARRIOR models.
Shadowsun is a COMMANDER in a BATTLESUIT.
Tanith first and only are not overall IG...

WOW seriously?

Shadowsun IS a firewarrior, all military tau are fire warriors and as purplefood says how do you know what a non-mammalian alien race with no link to humanity or the crafting of the Old Ones would look like?

All we know is that the only noticable difference between male and female Tau are their heads, and seeing as nearly all fire warrior tau have common sence and wear helmets you wouldn't see any difference between the two, you can be a terrible pedant but your point is moot.

As the the second point, tanith and last chancers are part of the IG range so again your point is moot

Brother Coa wrote:

purplefood wrote:
Wow pedantic much...
If Shadowsun is a female commander it stands to reason that there are female Fire Warriors. The differences may be impossible to see when they are in their armour.
Tanith 1st and only aren't overall IG but several other novels (Cain series and Last Chancer) has regiments of female guard.
And again if there is a female general it stands to reason there are female guardswomen...

Like I said, didn't see any female model thus far in that category...

So you're aying that simply because a model of it has yet to exist it therefore doesn't exist in the background?
Wow... The Emperor must be devastated... all that work for nothing.
At any rate if you had actually read what i had written you would realise that you might have seen a female firewarrior but you might not be able to tell the difference bcause:
A)You are human
B)The armour covers up any physical differences
As for female guard well... I have seen female models.

BluntmanDC wrote:
WOW seriously?

Shadowsun IS a firewarrior, all military tau are fire warriors and as purplefood says how do you know what a non-mammalian alien race with no link to humanity or the crafting of the Old Ones would look like?

All we know is that the only noticable difference between male and female Tau are their heads, and seeing as nearly all fire warrior tau have common sence and wear helmets you wouldn't see any difference between the two, you can be a terrible pedant but your point is moot.

As the the second point, tanith and last chancers are part of the IG range so again your point is moot

My point is that I have necer seen Female FW models ( not commanders but ordinary solders ).
And they are part of IG range, but when someone say "Imperial Guard" we all think about Cadians or Catachans or Krieg.
And I have never seen Guardswoman models that are almost equal in numbers with standard Guard models.

Brother Coa wrote:

BluntmanDC wrote:
WOW seriously?

Shadowsun IS a firewarrior, all military tau are fire warriors and as purplefood says how do you know what a non-mammalian alien race with no link to humanity or the crafting of the Old Ones would look like?

All we know is that the only noticable difference between male and female Tau are their heads, and seeing as nearly all fire warrior tau have common sence and wear helmets you wouldn't see any difference between the two, you can be a terrible pedant but your point is moot.

As the the second point, tanith and last chancers are part of the IG range so again your point is moot

My point is that I have necer seen Female FW models ( not commanders but ordinary solders ).
And they are part of IG range, but when someone say "Imperial Guard" we all think about Cadians or Catachans or Krieg.
And I have never seen Guardswoman models that are almost equal in numbers with standard Guard models.

And our point is that you may have seen female FW models but if you did you probably wouldn't know because the differences are covered up.
And, simply because you have never seen t doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Someone has probably done a fully or mostly female IG force.

Brother Coa wrote:

BluntmanDC wrote:
WOW seriously?

Shadowsun IS a firewarrior, all military tau are fire warriors and as purplefood says how do you know what a non-mammalian alien race with no link to humanity or the crafting of the Old Ones would look like?

All we know is that the only noticable difference between male and female Tau are their heads, and seeing as nearly all fire warrior tau have common sence and wear helmets you wouldn't see any difference between the two, you can be a terrible pedant but your point is moot.

As the the second point, tanith and last chancers are part of the IG range so again your point is moot

My point is that I have necer seen Female FW models ( not commanders but ordinary solders ).
And they are part of IG range, but when someone say "Imperial Guard" we all think about Cadians or Catachans or Krieg.
And I have never seen Guardswoman models that are almost equal in numbers with standard Guard models.

Because with both Tau and Guard, the fatigues, gear, and armor would obscure any overtly female features.

Despite what people would have you think, body armor doesn't actually 'cup' the breasts.

purplefood wrote:
And our point is that you may have seen female FW models but if you did you probably wouldn't know because the differences are covered up.
And, simply because you have never seen t doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Someone has probably done a fully or mostly female IG force.

So female Tau don't have boobs? And are in body same as men?
Now I would like to see entire IG female force

Brother Coa wrote:My point is that I have necer seen Female FW models ( not commanders but ordinary solders ).

So you are completely ignoring both mine and purplefood's points:

Brother Coa wrote:[So female Tau don't have boobs? And are in body same as men?

Tau are not mammals (only mammals have breasts, do you know anything about biology or the natural world), so why would would they have breasts? only a few tau components are helmetless, which is where you actually can see the gender of the Tau in question, why are you ignoring that point, only humans and eldar are described as having females with breasts and other human ideas of gender.

Brother Coa wrote:And they are part of IG range, but when someone say "Imperial Guard" WE all think about Cadians or Catachans or Krieg.

You do not speak for everyone, i have been into 40k for a while and when i picked up the old, old, IG codex it was the Last Chancers that got me, to me they are the IG.

Brother Coa wrote:

purplefood wrote:
And our point is that you may have seen female FW models but if you did you probably wouldn't know because the differences are covered up.
And, simply because you have never seen t doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Someone has probably done a fully or mostly female IG force.

So female Tau don't have boobs? And are in body same as men?
Now I would like to see entire IG female force

Finally...

BluntmanDC wrote:
Tau are not mammals (only mammals have breasts, do you know anything about biology or the natural world), so why would would they have breasts? only a few tau components are helmetless, which is where you actually can see the gender of the Tau in question, why are you ignoring that point, only humans and eldar are described as having females with breasts and other human ideas of gender.

Tau are mamals? Didn't know that. You could say that on the start and save some room in this thread...

Brother Coa wrote:And they are part of IG range, but when someone say "Imperial Guard" WE all think about Cadians or Catachans or Krieg.

You do not speak for everyone, i have been into 40k for a while and when i picked up the old, old, IG codex it was the Last Chancers that got me, to me they are the IG.

Brother Coa wrote:Like I said, didn't see any female model thus far in that category...

When they released Tanith models eons ago one of the 4 models was female,
And the were female squats

Hlaine Larkin mk2 wrote:

When they released Tanith models eons ago one of the 4 models was female,

Yeah, i wish they still did those, they were awesome models.

As for GW doing Female Guard, I would love it, if they avoided the clichés.

Brother Coa wrote:

BluntmanDC wrote:
Tau are not mammals (only mammals have breasts, do you know anything about biology or the natural world), so why would would they have breasts? only a few tau components are helmetless, which is where you actually can see the gender of the Tau in question, why are you ignoring that point, only humans and eldar are described as having females with breasts and other human ideas of gender.

Tau are mamals? Didn't know that. You could say that on the start and save some room in this thread

OK english may not be your first language, but i gave you the correct spelling in my post and the correct operator.

Tau are not mammalian (and even this point isn't that important, as in the massive array of mammals Humans are one of the few species that have enlarged mammory glands, or breasts, constantly. Most mammals only have englaged glands when weening, try telling the different genders between cats from closer than half a foot)

And both Purplefood and I made this point constantly, but you chose to ignore them.

Actually, according to Love Can Blam, Tau do have breasts. And, apparently, human-compatible genitalia.

BluntmanDC wrote:Unfortunetly, the majority of feminists who gain media attention and say they represent all women/feminists, are usually poor examples of feminists and humans in general, being egotistical fault finders looking for conflict.

Like Swedish politician Gudrun Schyman (sp?) who quite boldly proposed a "man-tax" to cover the medical costs of domestic violence. Yup, because some men beat their spouses all men should pay.

But the IoM is not our world - not the West, not Africa, not Asia or the Middle East. There's an insane amount of different social systems that have only one thing in common - they serve the Emperor by tithing troops or something else. People are in many cases strictly divided in social classes. One world may send the dregs of society to serve while others see military service as a duty/privilege for the nobility and wealthy people. Women may be second class citizens on one world while ruling the next. It might be perfectly fine for some to rule the world and serve in the army while others are little more than slaves. As long as the Imperial Guard gets the right number of soldiers and gear it cares not if women are there as generals or camp followers, or both.

Brother Coa wrote:My point is that I have necer seen Female FW models ( not commanders but ordinary solders ).

Our point is that Firewarriors all look the same regardless of gender when they're wearing their armor. One look at Shadowsun (a confirmed female) ought to clue you in to that. Would you have *any* idea that Shadowsun was female if you hadn't been told?

BluntmanDC wrote:

Brother Coa wrote:

BluntmanDC wrote:
Tau are not mammals (only mammals have breasts, do you know anything about biology or the natural world), so why would would they have breasts? only a few tau components are helmetless, which is where you actually can see the gender of the Tau in question, why are you ignoring that point, only humans and eldar are described as having females with breasts and other human ideas of gender.

Tau are mamals? Didn't know that. You could say that on the start and save some room in this thread

OK english may not be your first language, but i gave you the correct spelling in my post and the correct operator.

Tau are not mammalian (and even this point isn't that important, as in the massive array of mammals Humans are one of the few species that have enlarged mammory glands, or breasts, constantly. Most mammals only have englaged glands when weening, try telling the different genders between cats from closer than half a foot)

And both Purplefood and I made this point constantly, but you chose to ignore them.

Only now I see what have I wrote down...
I was sleepy....

Anyway, Tau do have breast. They are mentioned in a novel. And everywhere I looked and saw female Tau - she was with breasts. So what gives?

I have the female catachan someplace here, and for female cadians, TPC made resin bits kits for them before that went south. I have a few around, still, I think. Never finished all of them. Give me a sec and I'll get the camera.

Brother Coa wrote:Anyway, Tau do have breast. They are mentioned in a novel. And everywhere I looked and saw female Tau - she was with breasts. So what gives?

What do you mean, "What gives?" Are you telling me that you can seriously look at Shadowsun's model and determine what her bra size is underneath all that armor?

Why would you think Firewarrior armor reveals anything more than Shadowsun's armor does?

BaronIveagh wrote:I have the female catachan someplace here, and for female cadians, TPC made resin bits kits for them before that went south. I have a few around, still, I think. Never finished all of them. Give me a sec and I'll get the camera.

Now thisis something...nice paintjob by te way...


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Eumerin wrote:

Brother Coa wrote:Anyway, Tau do have breast. They are mentioned in a novel. And everywhere I looked and saw female Tau - she was with breasts. So what gives?

What do you mean, "What gives?" Are you telling me that you can seriously look at Shadowsun's model and determine what her bra size is underneath all that armor?

Why would you think Firewarrior armor reveals anything more than Shadowsun's armor does?

No, but it is fair to give at least some pointers...I mean, if they have breast they need space right?
And it seems that most FW models are wearing male armor...

Brother Coa wrote:

Eumerin wrote:

Brother Coa wrote:Anyway, Tau do have breast. They are mentioned in a novel. And everywhere I looked and saw female Tau - she was with breasts. So what gives?

What do you mean, "What gives?" Are you telling me that you can seriously look at Shadowsun's model and determine what her bra size is underneath all that armor?

Why would you think Firewarrior armor reveals anything more than Shadowsun's armor does?

No, but it is fair to give at least some pointers...I mean, if they have breast they need space right?
And it seems that most FW models are wearing male armor...

You seem to believe that there's nothing under the outer layer but tau. Spending time actually thinking about how armor works would reveal the flaw in your belief.

Rigid armor needs some sort of insulated padding. Otherwise you have problems with chafing. Additionally, a soft liner helps the armor to better absorb impacts without injuring the wearer (an undamaged armor suit isn't much good if the person inside has been turned into paste). And the advantage of a soft material is that it's fairly easy to adjust to the wearer's body shape. It also tends to be considerably less expensive to customize than rigid hardsuit armor. Since firewarriors aren't all the exact same size, the padding is where you would obviously want to customize the armor. And you can adjust the liner to match up with the body shape of the individual wearing the armor.

Ergo - the reason why you can't tell the gender of Shadowsun without consulting fluff, and why you don't know the gender of the firewarrior standing across the field with his or her helmet on.


For an example of somewhat similar armor with humans inside, see volume 3 of Masamune Shirow's Appleseed manga. There's an extended sequence involving a raid on a house by a large mixed-gender team wearing hard-shell body armor (not as high-tech as tau armor, but somewhat similar - and they're using body armor, not the better known Guges landmates). Anyone who's familiar with Shirow's work knows that he's quite willing to show off the female figure - but during the sequence in question you're forced to rely completely on dialogue and characterization to figure out who's who.

And at no point do you look at the body armor and think, "She wouldn't fit in that!"

Eumerin wrote: "She wouldn't fit in that!"

You mean like this:



Anyway, thank you for clearing that up for me. Much appreciated

purplefood wrote:Wow pedantic much...

Not pedantic about the IG.

I do not want to have a mini-skirt wearing big boobed slut in my Imperial guard tyvm.


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Brother Coa wrote:No, but it is fair to give at least some pointers...I mean, if they have breast they need space right?

You'd be surprised how much they can be compressed. I've seen someone with D-cups cosplaying- believably-- as a male.

The old joke being that when she took the costume off there was a boobsplosion.

Melissia wrote:

purplefood wrote:Wow pedantic much...

Not pedantic about the IG.

I do not want to have a mini-skirt wearing big boobed slut in my Imperial guard tyvm.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Brother Coa wrote:No, but it is fair to give at least some pointers...I mean, if they have breast they need space right?

You'd be surprised how much they can be compressed. I've seen someone with D-cups cosplaying- believably-- as a male.

The old joke being that when she took the costume off there was a boobsplosion.

I didn't mean you were pedantic i was saying Brother Coa was pedantic.

purplefood wrote:
I didn't mean you were pedantic i was saying Brother Coa was pedantic.

Much appreciated brother purplefood

Brother Coa wrote:

purplefood wrote:
I didn't mean you were pedantic i was saying Brother Coa was pedantic.

Much appreciated brother purplefood

It's not exactly an insult but it certainly isn't a desired personality trait in this culture.

Then in what way you mean that?
I understand I was in some way nice...

Pedantic means you are overly concerned with minute details. It isn't a very sought after trait... or at least it isn't in this culture.

Sorry, it's my nature. I like to stare in beautiful things and take note on every scratch. ( you should see me with my car then... ).

Usually when I play DoW, I like looking at every detail with building or unit, or just seeing how building is built when i wait for recourses to buy something.

Your recommendation is quite welcome, thanks

Brother Coa wrote:Sorry, it's my nature. I like to stare in beautiful things and take note on every scratch. ( you should see me with my car then... ).

Usually when I play DoW, I like looking at every detail with building or unit, or just seeing how building is built when i wait for recourses to buy something.

Your recommendation is quite welcome, thanks

That's fine but it was in context with the point about you not seeing a female firewarrior grunt in particular even though Shadowsun has already been used as an example. The fact you specifically said firewarrior grunt rather than soldier was pedantic especially since you added it on after you had made the original quote...

Psienesis wrote:Actually, according to Love Can Blam, Tau do have breasts. And, apparently, human-compatible genitalia.

What Black Library book is this from because after a quick search of their website there is no info on this story at all and right now its just sounding like terrible fan-fiction.

Psienesis wrote:Love Can Blam

BluntmanDC wrote:its just sounding like terrible fan-fiction.

Indeed.... indeed.

You don't want to know.

Melissia wrote:

Psienesis wrote:Love Can Blam

BluntmanDC wrote:its just sounding like terrible fan-fiction.

Indeed.... indeed.

You don't want to know.

I'm sorry, I've read 40k fapfics people have sent me that would turn your hair white. This sounds positively mild mannered.

Oh, I was just meaning because it's just too stupid to bother with.

Meh, I'll stick to eatatau for ersatz tau having wild sex. At least they write it funny, occasionally.

Melissia wrote:You'd be surprised how much they can be compressed. I've seen someone with D-cups cosplaying- believably-- as a male.

The old joke being that when she took the costume off there was a boobsplosion.

Quite a while back I read an article about the making of a mini-series on the guys who developed silicon implants (or something along those lines - this was quite a while ago, so I'm probably mis-remembering some of the details). One of the things that the writers/director commented on was that they had to do before and after shots of women for the series, and the women in those shots tended to be quite well-endowed (pretty much a requirement if you're going to do a convincing portrayal of someone who's had an implant job). Obviously this was a potential issue when putting together the "before" shots as the same well-endowed women would need to convincingly portray women with less noticable breasts.

The solution that they ended up settling on turned out to be simple enough. The "before" shots had the actresses in baggy and/or loosely fitting tops, while the "after" shots had them wearing much tighter tops. While that sort of thing won't make breasts disappear completely, it does at least tend to make them appear to be smaller. I'm guessing a combination of that and binding would tend to make all but the most outrageously large breasts virtually unnoticable.




And on a completely unrelated and off-topic note, during the course of my previous post (I was trying to track down an image to link, but eventually decided not to bother) I discovered that the Appleseed animated series is back on track!

I always liked that manga a lot more than GitS and Tank Police.

Eumerin wrote:
And on a completely unrelated and off-topic note, during the course of my previous post (I was trying to track down an image to link, but eventually decided not to bother) I discovered that the Appleseed animated series is back on track!

EXCELLENT. Maybe now Shirow will f'ing FINISH VOLUME 5! *ACHEM* Sorry...

Brother Coa wrote:Anyway, Tau do have breast. They are mentioned in a novel. And everywhere I looked and saw female Tau - she was with breasts. So what gives?

So to conclude the tau part of this discussion:

Their are no actual fluff that says that Tau females resemble human females in any way.
The only known difference is that females have a different shaped head groove.

So if you want female tau, all you have to do is say they are females or do a very small conversion on one of the few helmetless heads.

It does stand to reason that a firewarrior female would not be encombered with a 'curvy figure' as all fire warriors have been selectively breed for generations to be warriors and fufill the role there caste is assigned, so having a body shape that is less efficient would be breed out.


As to IG the matter is different, they do need some female kits, even if it is an online upgrade sprue, but this does only have do be heads for armies like the cadians (a world at constant war and work, would leave very few women with a curvy figure, the more feminine shape is made up alot by fat, and so it is unlikely on a world Cadia that women would gain that figue. Combine this with the fatigues and you would only see a difference in the face).

valhallan troops - no point, you wouldn't be able to tell the difference, nearly any of that range could be a woman
first born - no because it goes against the fluff
krieg - no because it goes against the fluff
steel legion - in those outfits you wouldn't see a difference
penal legions - just fill it with necromuda figures
catachan - the obvious choice for female soldiers, unfortunetly, they wouldn't look very feminine due to fluff so wouldn't tick the boxes set out by a large number of female model posters

BluntmanDC wrote:

Brother Coa wrote:Anyway, Tau do have breast. They are mentioned in a novel. And everywhere I looked and saw female Tau - she was with breasts. So what gives?

catachan - the obvious choice for female soldiers, unfortunetly, they wouldn't look very feminine due to fluff so wouldn't tick the boxes set out by a large number of female model posters

40k? Catachan? or VAAAAAASQUEZ!

From the Catachan special weapon blister (not oop).

BaronIveagh wrote:

Eumerin wrote:
And on a completely unrelated and off-topic note, during the course of my previous post (I was trying to track down an image to link, but eventually decided not to bother) I discovered that the Appleseed animated series is back on track!

EXCELLENT. Maybe now Shirow will f'ing FINISH VOLUME 5! *ACHEM* Sorry...

lol

I don't think we'll get that lucky. I'd have to double-check, but iirc his statement on the matter was something along the lines of his notes being lost and long-gone. He's also moved over to fully computer generated images since then, and iirc he's mentioned something about not liking the way that Deunan would look if he attempted to recreate her using that sort of artwork. Of course, the fact that he's an extremely private individual and does his best to avoid public attention - including the press - just makes it that much more difficult to get a clear answer as to what exactly happened with Appleseed.

Sadly, that means that volume 5 will be left permanently half-finished.


But since you seem interested...

The new series is called 'Appleseed XIII'. It looks as if Bandai will be distributing it. The artwork and animation will be closer to the first movie than the second (possibly with some ideas from the old OVA series), but the plot will more closely resemble the manga. Curiously, the actual distribution will be accomplished through a hybrid of theaters and on-line. Even though it's a series, it will *not* be broadcast on TV. The release date for the first episode(?) will be next month, iirc. There are currently no known details on a North American release, though I can't imagine that Bandai doesn't have some ideas on how to handle that.

Yes, a lot fo the feminine figure is made up by fat. It's because our society wants women to not be physically fit-- the same couldn't be said of the Imperium I would think.

My guess is that an olympic level swimmer would be considered far more attractive to them than a fashion model.

Melissia wrote:Yes, a lot fo the feminine figure is made up by fat. It's because our society wants women to not be physically fit-- the same couldn't be said of the Imperium I would think.

My guess is that an olympic level swimmer would be considered far more attractive to them than a fashion model.

Depends. iirc, a certain amount of fat is considered better for fertility (from a scientific perspective, and not cultural bias), though I don't know the specifics.

BluntmanDC wrote:

It does stand to reason that a firewarrior female would not be encombered with a 'curvy figure' as all fire warriors have been selectively breed for generations to be warriors and fufill the role there caste is assigned, so having a body shape that is less efficient would be breed out.

You do realize hat it would also breed out their ability to survive baring children, assuming they work the same way humans do. Women have those 'curvy figures' because it allows them to deal with carrying offspring internally, it' not just fat, it's bones too.

BluntmanDC wrote:
valhallan troops - no point, you wouldn't be able to tell the difference, nearly any of that range could be a woman

I point you to the illos of mixed gender vahallans and point out that it's quite easy to tell the difference between them.

BluntmanDC wrote:
krieg - no because it goes against the fluff

How?

BluntmanDC wrote:
steel legion - in those outfits you wouldn't see a difference

Wrong. Having quite a collection of military great and trench coats and having occasionally stuffed women into htem, there's a visible difference.

BluntmanDC wrote:
penal legions - just fill it with necromuda figures

Sure, if they weren't OOP.

BluntmanDC wrote:
catachan - the obvious choice for female soldiers, unfortunetly, they wouldn't look very feminine due to fluff so wouldn't tick the boxes set out by a large number of female model posters

Rebuttal already posted, but I'll add in 'Hey, Vasquez, have you ever been mistaken for a man?' 'No, why, have you?'

Steel Legion aren't wearing either great or trenchcoats. They're wearing field smocks ala the German Falschirmjager.

Eumerin wrote:Of course, the fact that he's an extremely private individual and does his best to avoid public attention - including the press - just makes it that much more difficult to get a clear answer as to what exactly happened with Appleseed.

Which is sort of funny that he's worried about his position as a marine biologist when he's actually better known as a cartoonist.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Kanluwen wrote:Steel Legion aren't wearing either great or trenchcoats. They're wearing field smocks ala the German Falschirmjager.

I have a swiss military greatcoat from the 1920's that's a bit longer but has the same basic cut. Don't have the Falschirmjager one though. Real german WW2 hardware is hard to get.

It really looks like a field jacket/smock rather than a greatcoat.

Maybe your Swiss coat is from a halfling?

BaronIveagh wrote:

BluntmanDC wrote:
krieg - no because it goes against the fluff

How?

Well because all Krieg solders are the clones of the same guy... according to some stories and rumors about them...

Kanluwen wrote:It really looks like a field jacket/smock rather than a greatcoat.

Maybe your Swiss coat is from a halfling?

As I said, it's a longer coat. The Steel Legion coat comes to the knee, the coat I have come to mid calf. It's similar to their officer coats, but feldgrau and is double breasted.

Brother Coa wrote:
Well because all Krieg solders are the clones of the same guy... according to some stories and rumors about them...

Hmm... I've heard they had a system to quickly create more troops, but last I heard cloning was a no-no in the Imperium.

BaronIveagh wrote:
Hmm... I've heard they had a system to quickly create more troops, but last I heard cloning was a no-no in the Imperium.

Here is a quote from Lexicanum: "It should be noted that Krieg raises an unusually large number of regiments for a devastated planet. This is attributed to the use of the "Vitae Womb" birthing technique, which Krieg has been granted special dispensation to use as the result of their famous steel, determination and unswerving loyalty to the Emperor. Use of this technique is largely unknown and generally seen as dangerous and abhorrent by the Adeptus Mechanicus Biologis."

So basicly, IoM gave them cloning technology to reward them for returning their world to the Emperor. But they are closely watched by AM.

while the men are rather expendable in comparison. qoute melissa

also impartially men are much less likely to succumb to the same wound inflicted on a woman can go farther for long and have a signafcantly better physicaal tolerance.

BaronIveagh wrote:

BluntmanDC wrote:

It does stand to reason that a firewarrior female would not be encombered with a 'curvy figure' as all fire warriors have been selectively breed for generations to be warriors and fufill the role there caste is assigned, so having a body shape that is less efficient would be breed out.

You do realize hat it would also breed out their ability to survive baring children, assuming they work the same way humans do. Women have those 'curvy figures' because it allows them to deal with carrying offspring internally, it' not just fat, it's bones too.

So you have magically learned how Tau breed, oh no you haven't, you have just speculated based on assumptions that Tau breed in a similar way to humans and 'tits and ass' are not needed to carry offspring in humans either anyway. The actual difference in the pelvic bones of man and women are not actually that great and unless you are a pathologist or archeologist you probably wouldn't be able to tell. Maybe you should tell all those sports women who have children but don't have a curvy figure that what they have done is impossible.

For all we know the Tau firecaste may not even carry embryos to term in a womb and may use articical wombs as it is to wasteful having half the firewarrior caste on a rotating maternity leave, but this is speculation, unlike your own claims, which you pass as fact.

BaronIveagh wrote:

BluntmanDC wrote:
valhallan troops - no point, you wouldn't be able to tell the difference, nearly any of that range could be a woman

I point you to the illos of mixed gender vahallans and point out that it's quite easy to tell the difference between them.

How do you tell the difference between genders of someone wearing that leave of layers?

BaronIveagh wrote:

BluntmanDC wrote:
krieg - no because it goes against the fluff

How?

as already said you haven't read the fluff

BaronIveagh wrote:

BluntmanDC wrote:
steel legion - in those outfits you wouldn't see a difference

Wrong. Having quite a collection of military great and trench coats and having occasionally stuffed women into htem, there's a visible difference.

So these great coats you have, they are designed to protect against the terrible enviroment of the ash wastes of Armageddon? they are much thicker and if you look at the models, you wouldn't actually be able to tell.

BaronIveagh wrote:

BluntmanDC wrote:
penal legions - just fill it with necromuda figures

Sure, if they weren't OOP.

The magic of ebay

BaronIveagh wrote:

BluntmanDC wrote:
catachan - the obvious choice for female soldiers, unfortunetly, they wouldn't look very feminine due to fluff so wouldn't tick the boxes set out by a large number of female model posters

Rebuttal already posted, but I'll add in 'Hey, Vasquez, have you ever been mistaken for a man?' 'No, why, have you?'

Look at the word i used 'feminine', that model is not feminine and i say to truelly be called a catachan she needs alot more muscle, the point was that alot of posters who want female models want 'hot' women and do nothing for a more equalist game. Again please read my post, before replying half-cock.

You don't even need to use eBay for Necromunda figures. GW still sells them. I got an Arbites Enforcer Patrol Team from them just last week.

BluntmanDC wrote:
So you have magically learned how Tau breed, and 'tits and ass' are not needed to carry offspring in humans either. The actual difference in the pelvic bones of man and women are not actually that great and unless you are a pathologist or archeologist you probably wouldn't be able to tell. Maybe you should tell all those sports women who have children but don't have a curvy figure that what they have done is impossible.

As I said 'assuming they work the same way humans do'. You're a fine one to complain about someone not reading what you wrote. As far as the male vs female pelvis, I refer you to a text called Grey's Anatomy, you'll find the differences quite glaring.

And, bluntly, you'd be amazed at how many of them have c sections. Without modern medicine, many of them would die.

BluntmanDC wrote:
For all we know the Tau firecaste may not even carry embryos to term in a womb and may use articical wombs as it is to wasteful having half the firewarrior caste on a rotating maternity leave, but this is speculation, unlike your own claims, which you pass as fact.

I never said that it wasn't speculation.

BluntmanDC wrote:
How do you tell the difference between genders of someone wearing that leave of layers?

Face, height, overall shape... though granted, it's not perfect.

BluntmanDC wrote:
as already said you haven't read the fluff

Except I have, and most recent fluff doesn't mention that, and they all look different on the few occasions they take their masks off. So, not clones.

BluntmanDC wrote:
So these great coats you have, they are designed to protect against the terrible enviroment of the ash wastes of Armageddon? they are much thicker and if you look at the models, you wouldn't actually be able to tell.

No, just frozen hellholes such as the Swiss Alps in Winter, Sweden, Northern Russia, and Finland. I can assure you, with their internal liners in, they can be quite thick, though with the liners removed, they're also comfortable in simply cold conditions.

BluntmanDC wrote:
Look at the word i used 'feminine', that model is not feminine and i say to truelly be called a catachan she needs alot more muscle, the point was that alot of posters who want female models want 'hot' women and do nothing for a more equalist game. Again please read my post, before replying half-cock.

Obviously you didn't bother to look too hard at the female cadians I posted earlier, rather then the 'hot' pictures that were posted afterward. And, to be called catachan requires that you liked on that death world and survived, not that you look like a 'baby ogryn'.

Brother Coa wrote:

BaronIveagh wrote:
Hmm... I've heard they had a system to quickly create more troops, but last I heard cloning was a no-no in the Imperium.

Here is a quote from Lexicanum: "It should be noted that Krieg raises an unusually large number of regiments for a devastated planet. This is attributed to the use of the "Vitae Womb" birthing technique, which Krieg has been granted special dispensation to use as the result of their famous steel, determination and unswerving loyalty to the Emperor. Use of this technique is largely unknown and generally seen as dangerous and abhorrent by the Adeptus Mechanicus Biologis."

So basicly, IoM gave them cloning technology to reward them for returning their world to the Emperor. But they are closely watched by AM.

It isn't cloning...
At least..
Not in the sense of the word.
Vitae womb means glass womb. Essentially they are test tube babies and I'm not certain but i have a suspicion on what particular process they use but i am not sure.

Melissia wrote:

cadbren wrote:It's impossible to please feminists because they're all slightly insane

That's one of the dumbest things I've read this week...

The belief that both genders should be treated equally-- IE feminism-- is neither caused by nor indicative of insanity.

Well at least in the united states women have eqaul rights.

there is a all female regiment in the fluff, one of the commissar caine novels. I just dont know the number of the unit though.

rovian wrote:
Well at least in the united states women have eqaul rights.

I dunno, BluntmanDC seemed to assume I was talking about T&A when I pointed out that women are not shaped like men and that breeding out this fundamental difference would result in failure to be able to reproduce. A woman, broadly speaking, has a difference shape then a man with comparable levels of body fat. If you try and change this, at least in humans, your population will lose the ability to reproduce naturally. The wide hips (compared to a man) in humans is what allows a woman to support the developing offspring and give birth more easily.

This is due ot natural selection, as women with narrow hips tended to have difficult births and die. (Maternal mortality rates have historically climbed as high as 40%, so you can see how any advantage was a good thing, however this is not entirely tied to the dimensions of the subject.)


Automatically Appended Next Post:

martin74 wrote:there is a all female regiment in the fluff, one of the commissar caine novels. I just dont know the number of the unit though.

Actually, two get mentioned, one having a primary role in the series, the other only getting mentioned when a straggling tank of their joins up with Cain on Perlia.

As reference, it is stated that ten percent of the Imperial Guard is female. Which is a woeful underrepresentation, but it could have merely been a current statistic of the time rather than an overall thing.

Melissia wrote:As reference, it is stated that ten percent of the Imperial Guard is female. Which is a woeful underrepresentation, but it could have merely been a current statistic of the time rather than an overall thing.

I would expect a certain degree of underrepresentation. While I'd guess that most of the technologically advanced worlds are equal opportunity tithers, it's also worth noting that there are a lot of feral worlds with low levels of technology. On those worlds I'd hazard a guess that something similar to traditional gender roles are enforced, and the only guard troopers leaving those worlds are male.

A 90/10 ratio still sounds badly out of whack, even taking that into account.

Eumerin wrote:
I would expect a certain degree of underrepresentation. While I'd guess that most of the technologically advanced worlds are equal opportunity tithers, it's also worth noting that there are a lot of feral worlds with low levels of technology. On those worlds I'd hazard a guess that something similar to traditional gender roles are enforced, and the only guard troopers leaving those worlds are male.

A 90/10 ratio still sounds badly out of whack, even taking that into account.

I think it's GW trying to handwave why they don't make female minis for IG (real reason: until recently, GW has not been able to sculpt a female of any description to save their lives, and yes, I'm including most of the SoB sculpts in this, some of them were positively horrid.)

I suspect that the majority of them (as fluff stands) are tankies, if for no other reason then that there is no argument that can be made (by the equally rabid flip side to feminists, male chauvinists) that a woman can't drive 90 tonnes of steel over the enemies smoldering corpses as well as a man can. The Leman Russ does not care about the genitalia of the person at the wheel, or who pulls the trigger.

[delete: off topic]

BaronIveagh wrote:

BluntmanDC wrote:
So you have magically learned how Tau breed, and 'tits and ass' are not needed to carry offspring in humans either. The actual difference in the pelvic bones of man and women are not actually that great and unless you are a pathologist or archeologist you probably wouldn't be able to tell. Maybe you should tell all those sports women who have children but don't have a curvy figure that what they have done is impossible.

As I said 'assuming they work the same way humans do'. You're a fine one to complain about someone not reading what you wrote. As far as the male vs female pelvis, I refer you to a text called Grey's Anatomy, you'll find the differences quite glaring.

And, bluntly, you'd be amazed at how many of them have c sections. Without modern medicine, many of them would die.

Most C-sections in this country are due to emergency birthing, planned if multiple births, or due to medical problems of the mother such as being overwieght, they are not however because of pelvic problems.

Wow you italisised the worlds the most famous medical text book, as if no one had ever heard of it before, although the female pelvis is wider the majority of the difference is in the internal spacing, most athletic women have a figure similar to males.

BluntmanDC wrote:
Most C-sections in this country are due to emergency birthing, planned if multiple births, or due to medical problems of the mother such as being overwieght, they are not however because of pelvic problems.

Wow you italisised the worlds the most famous medical text book, as if no one had ever heard of it before, although the female pelvis is wider the majority of the difference is in the internal spacing, most athletic women have a figure similar to males.

Narrower hips tend to have a narrower outlet (and if not you're potentially reducing the structural integrity of the hip) which was found, in 2006, in a paper by Stålberg, Bodestedt, Lyrenäs, and Axelsson of the Department of Women's and Children's Health, Uppsala University, Sweden to cause increased risk of a birth requiring an emergency csection.

Further, even with 40 pounds of gear on, women who are athletic, but not taking steroids (I think), in the US Military are still visibly female.

However, (back to 40k) in the case of Tau, we have little information, and what we do have is conflicting. (Like so much of 40k)

In Xenology, A tau is dissected, however, the two drawings and the text all manage to conflict with one another. (Never hire two artists and one writer if they are not in the same room)

I'll go with the text: The differences are quicker to list than the similarities: cobalt based blood, ribs arraigned vertically instead of horizontally, a single lobed lung (which begs the question how they breathe, since the diaphragm appear in roughly the same location), the heart doubles as a liver (?), they have vestigial secondary stomachs, and sweat, as well as sharing several other mammalian traits, most notably the eye structure, according to the text, though it observes that their sense of smell is more acute then their sight. Plus the obvious feet and hands.

In Courage and Honor however, Space Marines have no trouble distinguishing female and male firewarriors (IIRC, as it's not handy to me atm) so there must be some visible component.

In Codex: Tau Empire Shadowsun appears to have a very different shaped face than male tau pictured, but this is mentioned nowhere else. (and wouldn't have been visible to the Ultamarines in Courage and Honor)

Frankly, trying to figure out the sex organs of an alien with bizarre biology is kinda pointless outside of figuring out how to make hentai about it, so let's move on.

Melissia wrote:Frankly, trying to figure out the sex organs of an alien with bizarre biology is kinda pointless outside of figuring out how to make hentai about it, so let's move on.

Agreed. And please, for the love of god, don't mention hentai. I really don't want to think of that at the moment. It makes my brain hurt.

BaronIveagh wrote:

Melissia wrote:Frankly, trying to figure out the sex organs of an alien with bizarre biology is kinda pointless outside of figuring out how to make hentai about it, so let's move on.

Agreed. And please, for the love of god, don't mention hentai. I really don't want to think of that at the moment. It makes my brain hurt.

You called?

For some reason, I'm very reluctant to click on that. For some reason I have this watery voice in the back of my mind saying 'It's a Trap!'

Melissia wrote:As reference, it is stated that ten percent of the Imperial Guard is female. Which is a woeful underrepresentation, but it could have merely been a current statistic of the time rather than an overall thing.

That would put the number of female guardsmen in the billions wouldnt it?

BluntmanDC wrote:

Psienesis wrote:Actually, according to Love Can Blam, Tau do have breasts. And, apparently, human-compatible genitalia.

What Black Library book is this from because after a quick search of their website there is no info on this story at all and right now its just sounding like terrible fan-fiction.

It's on 1d4Chan. At least, that is where I found it. If it's simply reprinted there from some other source, I do not know where it originates.

I don't recommend reading it, actually. It's extremely NSFW... but it *is* fething hilarious.

My post was meant more as a humorous aside than any serious contribution to the topic... though I will point out that most other humanoid races in the galaxy (as in, more than just humanoid-in-appearance, but following basic human/animal biology) reproduce sexually. Most advanced species (and even many lesser, "animal" species) exhibit secondary sexual characteristics as part of their natural development. In addition, I believe that many pictures of Tau individuals show them with hair (doesn't Sunshadow herself wear a long braid out of the top of her head?) which would lend credence to the idea that they are mammals, which breed sexually as a rule.

As far as figures go... speaking as a former soldier, biologically, women make better infantrymen than men do. They have stronger muscle-mass in their legs and greater endurance (all other things being equal... a body-builder male is going to be stronger and tougher than a non-athletic woman, of course, but given 2 average individuals put through the same training regimen for the same period of time...) than men, and their bodies retain water better than a man's does, reducing their susceptibility to heat-casualties. The only benefit males have in this area is superior upper-body strength, which allows the average male to heft and support a heavier weapon than a female (I, for example, can fire an M60D from the shoulder, which I don't recommend, really, whereas most female soldiers I knew would not be able to absorb the recoil of that beast in their shoulders), and carry a heavier weight on their shoulders. It also adds some benefit in hand-to-hand combat, which is still a part of modern military training, though any Drill Sergeant will tell you that, if you have to take the enemy on in hand-to-hand, you are now, truly, in a world of gak. So, a "curvy" woman may still be found in a co-ed military, even in a line unit, as this is more a matter of bone-structure than muscle/fat structure. The curves come from wide hips and a narrow waist, the "hourglass figure" from the same with wide shoulders supporting large breasts (from my own military experiences, not all that uncommon, really). Again, less to do with training and far more to do with the genetics of the individual in question.

Psienesis wrote:

BluntmanDC wrote:

Psienesis wrote:Actually, according to Love Can Blam, Tau do have breasts. And, apparently, human-compatible genitalia.

What Black Library book is this from because after a quick search of their website there is no info on this story at all and right now its just sounding like terrible fan-fiction.

It's on 1d4Chan. At least, that is where I found it. If it's simply reprinted there from some other source, I do not know where it originates.

I don't recommend reading it, actually. It's extremely NSFW... but it *is* fething hilarious.

My post was meant more as a humorous aside than any serious contribution to the topic... though I will point out that most other humanoid races in the galaxy (as in, more than just humanoid-in-appearance, but following basic human/animal biology) reproduce sexually. Most advanced species (and even many lesser, "animal" species) exhibit secondary sexual characteristics as part of their natural development. In addition, I believe that many pictures of Tau individuals show them with hair (doesn't Sunshadow herself wear a long braid out of the top of her head?) which would lend credence to the idea that they are mammals, which breed sexually as a rule.

Having hair is not just a thing for mammals, neither is reproducing sexually. Sexual reproduction doesn't even require a female to carry the offspring.

Also when in a discussion it is better to say you are making a joke when putting 'evidence' into a thread.

Point me to a true reptile that has hair.

I'll point you to Xenology where it states that Tau, other then some oddities, are for all intents and purposes, mammals.

(Indeed the Admech dissecting questions how something so close to human can arise from parallel evolution.)

Personally, I suppose from a breeding program/genetic engineering perspective, it all depends on how self sufficient you prefer your troops and if you don't mind being shackled to high tech medical facilities. Bluntly though, it's more cost effective to have them easily breed and develop on their own. You can create the perfect soldier, but you have better be prepared to grow them in tanks because reproduction is a waste of energy if you follow that philosophy.

Ideally they would be able to give birth while in actual combat, and have their offspring instantly as lethal as the parent, but we're heading deep into tyrannid territory now.

Psienesis wrote:Point me to a true reptile that has hair.

I can point you too a mammal that lays eggs...

purplefood wrote:

Psienesis wrote:Point me to a true reptile that has hair.

I can point you too a mammal that lays eggs...

That mammal still has hair, and still breeds sexually. It just doesn't give birth to live young. The Tau, for all we know, may be egg-laying mammals. That's perfectly acceptable. They may even be sexually-reproducing, egg-laying mammals with breast-bearing females who feed their young after they hatch.

We just don't know.

Psienesis wrote:

purplefood wrote:

Psienesis wrote:Point me to a true reptile that has hair.

I can point you too a mammal that lays eggs...

That mammal still has hair, and still breeds sexually. It just doesn't give birth to live young. The Tau, for all we know, may be egg-laying mammals. That's perfectly acceptable. They may even be sexually-reproducing, egg-laying mammals with breast-bearing females who feed their young after they hatch.

We just don't know.

Reptiles breed sexually...
Why did you bring them up?

Hmm... it's tough, with so little data. The Tau supposedly evolved from grazing animals, which would, in theory, rule out egg laying (since grazers have to keep on the move otherwise they overgraze, eggs requiring them to stay handy as Tau are social creatures)

And, before this get pointed out, yes, dinosaurs had grazers, but we also know even less about many dinosaurs then we do about Tau. Dinosaurs were extremely small compared to the adults, and most likely had a fairly short incubation period.

How do you think that women is respected in the Imperial Guard?

Brother Coa wrote:How do you think that women is respected in the Imperial Guard?

Same way everyone is respected in the Guard. Commissar says so.

Psienesis wrote:Point me to a true reptile that has hair.

Mammals, reptiles, birds, insects (they have hair like structures), fish, amphibians, crustation (they have hair like structures) and plants (they also have hair like structures)all breed SEXUALLY. your point fall flat on its arse when you don't understand what sexual reproduction actually is. All animals and most plant have male or female (and sometimes both) parts.

What is the actual point you are trying to make?

BaronIveagh wrote:I'll point you to Xenology where it states that Tau, other then some oddities, are for all intents and purposes, mammals.

It also shows that Tau have human feet and is depicted as the case notes of a man gone mad, so is not actually very reliable. it could be a case of an imperial freakshow like that of historical taxidermists that used their skill to make 'real' mermaids, sea monsters and other such oddities, but we will never know (knowing GW).

purplefood wrote:

Psienesis wrote:

purplefood wrote:

Psienesis wrote:Point me to a true reptile that has hair.

I can point you too a mammal that lays eggs...

That mammal still has hair, and still breeds sexually. It just doesn't give birth to live young. The Tau, for all we know, may be egg-laying mammals. That's perfectly acceptable. They may even be sexually-reproducing, egg-laying mammals with breast-bearing females who feed their young after they hatch.

We just don't know.

Reptiles breed sexually...
Why did you bring them up?

Because the argument was that Tau don't have breasts or, indeed, other gender-identifying physical features, and was taken a point further to state that "having hair [is] not just a thing for mammals". I posited that, because Tau are pictured with hair, and given their activity cycles, that they are, indeed, mammals. Given that basis, it is likely that Tau possess some sort of secondary sexual characteristics. Given that likelihood, breasts seem to be the most logical development, in addition to any other oddities associated with their xeno physiology, like head-crests or skull-knobs or what-have-you. I posit the presence of breasts in adult Tau females because, if they are a mammalian race, they most probably breed sexually and, like most other mammals, nurse their young.

I then asked for an example of a hair-bearing reptile, which brought the platypus into the topic, somehow, as an egg-laying mammal (not a fur-bearing reptile), which I further commented as being a possibility for Tau (egg-laying mammals), though not a certainty or even a "most likely possible" scenario.

Yes, reptiles breed sexually and lay eggs. That doesn't have anything to do with the point of Tau being a) Mammals and, b) possessing gender-defining characteristics as we, as humans, would understand them.

Psienesis wrote:

purplefood wrote:

Psienesis wrote:

purplefood wrote:

Psienesis wrote:Point me to a true reptile that has hair.

I can point you too a mammal that lays eggs...

That mammal still has hair, and still breeds sexually. It just doesn't give birth to live young. The Tau, for all we know, may be egg-laying mammals. That's perfectly acceptable. They may even be sexually-reproducing, egg-laying mammals with breast-bearing females who feed their young after they hatch.

We just don't know.

Reptiles breed sexually...
Why did you bring them up?

Because the argument was that Tau don't have breasts or, indeed, other gender-identifying physical features, and was taken a point further to state that "having hair [is] not just a thing for mammals". I posited that, because Tau are pictured with hair, and given their activity cycles, that they are, indeed, mammals. Given that basis, it is likely that Tau possess some sort of secondary sexual characteristics. Given that likelihood, breasts seem to be the most logical development, in addition to any other oddities associated with their xeno physiology, like head-crests or skull-knobs or what-have-you. I posit the presence of breasts in adult Tau females because, if they are a mammalian race, they most probably breed sexually and, like most other mammals, nurse their young.

I then asked for an example of a hair-bearing reptile, which brought the platypus into the topic, somehow, as an egg-laying mammal (not a fur-bearing reptile), which I further commented as being a possibility for Tau (egg-laying mammals), though not a certainty or even a "most likely possible" scenario.

Yes, reptiles breed sexually and lay eggs. That doesn't have anything to do with the point of Tau being a) Mammals and, b) possessing gender-defining characteristics as we, as humans, would understand them.

So the reptiles thing didn't mean anything...
As far as i can tell it makes no sense whatsoever...
Most, if not all, highly and even lesser evolved organisms have secondary sexual characteristics.
Tau might nurse their young differently from other mammals. They might do it like birds do or maybe they have a more discreet method from humans.

purplefood wrote:So the reptiles thing didn't mean anything...
As far as i can tell it makes no sense whatsoever...
Most, if not all, highly and even lesser evolved organisms have secondary sexual characteristics.

Yes, indeed they might, which is what I've been saying all along. There is,as mentioned up-thread, suggestions that a human (at least a Space Marine) can tell the difference between a male and female Tau at a glance. I assume this is because Tau females have boobs and Tau males don't. Or perhaps the opposite is true, and we've been assuming the entirely wrong thing about Fire Warriors up to this point? Doesn't matter... point is, I'm with the camp that believes Tau females look, well, female. In some manner.

Psienesis wrote:

purplefood wrote:So the reptiles thing didn't mean anything...
As far as i can tell it makes no sense whatsoever...
Most, if not all, highly and even lesser evolved organisms have secondary sexual characteristics.

Yes, indeed they might, which is what I've been saying all along. There is,as mentioned up-thread, suggestions that a human (at least a Space Marine) can tell the difference between a male and female Tau at a glance. I assume this is because Tau females have boobs and Tau males don't. Or perhaps the opposite is true, and we've been assuming the entirely wrong thing about Fire Warriors up to this point? Doesn't matter... point is, I'm with the camp that believes Tau females look, well, female. In some manner.

It is probably due to a different facial structure.
Evolving under a different set of pressures and with a different genetic structure, from humans they would have different secondary characteristics.

Psienesis wrote:Because the argument was that Tau don't have breasts or, indeed, other gender-identifying physical features, and was taken a point further to state that "having hair [is] not just a thing for mammals". I posited that, because Tau are pictured with hair, and given their activity cycles, that they are, indeed, mammals. Given that basis, it is likely that Tau possess some sort of secondary sexual characteristics. Given that likelihood, breasts seem to be the most logical development, in addition to any other oddities associated with their xeno physiology, like head-crests or skull-knobs or what-have-you. I posit the presence of breasts in adult Tau females because, if they are a mammalian race, they most probably breed sexually and, like most other mammals, nurse their young.

Humans are the only mammals wherein females have enlarged breasts when not lactating. Even other apes don't. If Tau females are ever formally depicted with breasts, the primary motivation would be fanservice, not some more universal property. As alien as Tau are deliberately depicted as being, I find it difficult to believe that anyone trying to preserve that would decide to make them more human in appearance.

Tau would have secondary sexual characteristics, but they would not have human ones.

Humans are also the only species we know of, IRL, that have technology, civilization and culture. We developed differently than other primates, sure... but this same template cannot be said to be true of all other, as-yet-undiscovered and unknown, alien races.

Eldar females have breasts. Dark Eldar females, too, being a cultural off-shoot of the baseline Eldar. This is not "fan-service", it's just the way their race developed in the course of its evolution, and an accepted fact of their race. Yet... they are also extremely alien in mindset, behavior and temperament.

Why could the Tau not also have similar physical features? I don't see this possibility as being "fan-service" automatically, I see it more as a physical development along evolutionary lines in hand with the evolution of their culture. Animals have the benefit of instinctive breeding cycles... they know (through pheromones as well as a host of other things) when females of their kind are ready and capable of breeding. Humans have the mark of puberty to denote this, and are then able to breed at any time. Why not the Tau as well?

Psienesis wrote:Humans are also the only species we know of, IRL, that have technology, civilization and culture. We developed differently than other primates, sure... but this same template cannot be said to be true of all other, as-yet-undiscovered and unknown, alien races.

Eldar females have breasts. Dark Eldar females, too, being a cultural off-shoot of the baseline Eldar. This is not "fan-service", it's just the way their race developed in the course of its evolution, and an accepted fact of their race. Yet... they are also extremely alien in mindset, behavior and temperament.

Why could the Tau not also have similar physical features? I don't see this possibility as being "fan-service" automatically, I see it more as a physical development along evolutionary lines in hand with the evolution of their culture. Animals have the benefit of instinctive breeding cycles... they know (through pheromones as well as a host of other things) when females of their kind are ready and capable of breeding. Humans have the mark of puberty to denote this, and are then able to breed at any time. Why not the Tau as well?

Both Eldar and Humans were made by the Old Ones however...
Tau were not.
At any rate they may develope whatever these characterisitics are during pregnancy.

BluntmanDC wrote:

BaronIveagh wrote:I'll point you to Xenology where it states that Tau, other then some oddities, are for all intents and purposes, mammals.

It also shows that Tau have human feet and is depicted as the case notes of a man gone mad, so is not actually very reliable. it could be a case of an imperial freakshow like that of historical taxidermists that used their skill to make 'real' mermaids, sea monsters and other such oddities, but we will never know (knowing GW).

I'm kind of torn on the whole issue of the 'hooves'.

Because it's very clearly an Ethereal(female actually) that was dissected. The 'human feet' thing seems more like it is the result of it being splayed on a dissection table.

purplefood wrote:
Both Eldar and Humans were made by the Old Ones however...
Tau were not.
At any rate they may develope whatever these characterisitics are during pregnancy.

Um, I was under the impression humans were not produced by the Old Ones, which is why Eldar sneer at them so much?


On Bored, Blue, and Buxom (and yes, I just thought of that name for a Tau yuri hentai off the top of my head): Unfortunately, Tau females are not really depicted at all, and the two 'official' versions differ wildly. I'll choose to interpret the mad magos commentary that they're, with a few salient differences, morphologically more similar then not to extend to any thing he didn't note as a difference.

BaronIveagh wrote:

purplefood wrote:
Both Eldar and Humans were made by the Old Ones however...
Tau were not.
At any rate they may develope whatever these characterisitics are during pregnancy.

Um, I was under the impression humans were not produced by the Old Ones, which is why Eldar sneer at them so much?


On Bored, Blue, and Buxom (and yes, I just thought of that name for a Tau yuri hentai off the top of my head): Unfortunately, Tau females are not really depicted at all, and the two 'official' versions differ wildly. I'll choose to interpret the mad magos commentary that they're, with a few salient differences, morphologically more similar then not to extend to any thing he didn't note as a difference.

IIRC Humans were supposed to be a trade off between Eldar specialisation and Ork numbers and inherent talent for warfare. That might be why they look down on Humans since they are essentially mocking Eldar as a species, but also Eldar were incredibly powerful at one point.

purplefood wrote:
IIRC Humans were supposed to be a trade off between Eldar specialisation and Ork numbers and inherent talent for warfare. That might be why they look down on Humans since they are essentially mocking Eldar as a species, but also Eldar were incredibly powerful at one point.

That doesn't make any sense, since Orks and Eldar were created 65 million years before humans, during the war between the C'tan and the Old Ones. Which ended long before humanity appeared.

BaronIveagh wrote:

purplefood wrote:
IIRC Humans were supposed to be a trade off between Eldar specialisation and Ork numbers and inherent talent for warfare. That might be why they look down on Humans since they are essentially mocking Eldar as a species, but also Eldar were incredibly powerful at one point.

That doesn't make any sense, since Orks and Eldar were created 65 million years before humans, during the war between the C'tan and the Old Ones. Which ended long before humanity appeared.

Supposedly the humans were a kinda of new idea rather than an actual fighting force. The war had raged for a while already and i suppose the Old Ones would have hurried it along. The source may have been outdated but i can't find it again which is annoying since it was interesting...

purplefood wrote:
Supposedly the humans were a kinda of new idea rather than an actual fighting force. The war had raged for a while already and i suppose the Old Ones would have hurried it along. The source may have been outdated but i can't find it again which is annoying since it was interesting...

Ok, since Codex: Necrons (3rd) states that Eldar, orks and jokero were made (among others), the old ones died out, and then 60 million years later, humanity comes along.

BaronIveagh wrote:

purplefood wrote:
Supposedly the humans were a kinda of new idea rather than an actual fighting force. The war had raged for a while already and i suppose the Old Ones would have hurried it along. The source may have been outdated but i can't find it again which is annoying since it was interesting...

Ok, since Codex: Necrons (3rd) states that Eldar, orks and jokero were made (among others), the old ones died out, and then 60 million years later, humanity comes along.

Supposedly the genes the Old Ones used were predisposed to stay the hell alive, i assume they ended up in humanity or the ancestors of them.

I don't think the involvement of the Old Ones really enters into the picture. Some of the races created by the Old Ones share physical similarities (Human/Eldar) while others (Human/K'nib) do not.

In other words, it doesn't matter if the Old Ones created Humans and Eldar and not Tau, or not, because that doesn't alter the possibility that Tau do or do not have breasts and other mammalian humanoid features. The marks of the Old One's influence in the evolution of your species is not the presence of a great rack, nor is the absence thereof a sign that your race was not altered by the Old Ones.

It makes it more plausible that they have a much more different way of doing things than humans do.

Psienesis wrote:I don't think the involvement of the Old Ones really enters into the picture. Some of the races created by the Old Ones share physical similarities (Human/Eldar) while others (Human/K'nib) do not.

In other words, it doesn't matter if the Old Ones created Humans and Eldar and not Tau, or not, because that doesn't alter the possibility that Tau do or do not have breasts and other mammalian humanoid features. The marks of the Old One's influence in the evolution of your species is not the presence of a great rack, nor is the absence thereof a sign that your race was not altered by the Old Ones.

For some reason, and I hate to admit this, I had this mental image of a bikini clad blond with huge tracts of land posing with an elder sign tattoo on her breasts and saying 'Look, the Mark of the Old Ones!' when I read this.

Psienesis wrote:Humans are also the only species we know of, IRL, that have technology, civilization and culture. We developed differently than other primates, sure... but this same template cannot be said to be true of all other, as-yet-undiscovered and unknown, alien races.

a- humans did not evolve to fir a 'template'
b- so your whole position is that 'large breasts lead to high levels of technology'
c- culture, as it is difined is actually not a trait that only belongs to humans, primates and pack animals have cultures with complex levels of power, greeting gestures and rituals.
d- humans are not the only species on this planet that use technology, chimpanzes, bonobos and ravens all use tools

back to your old posts:

a- although tau have 'hair' this might not be the same type of material that is mammalian hair, many structures exist in the natural world that look like hair but are not mammalian hair.
b- breasts do not equal mammals, nearly all mammals have teats not breasts, so tau females (if they are mammal like creatures) don't need breasts to suckle their young.

BluntmanDC wrote:
b- so your whole position is that 'large breasts lead to high levels of technology'

maybe he meant this:

-bigger boobs mean more milk for kids...
-more milk means that the kids grow even more stronger and smarter...
-smarter men means more advanced tech...

So, in some strange fetish, dark, sexy reality - it's true..

Interesting idea...
Smarter men?

Brother Coa wrote:-bigger boobs mean more milk for kids...
-more milk means that the kids grow even more stronger and smarter...
-smarter men means more advanced tech...

Don't you mean smarter kids when they become adults?

A lot of the reason women haven't seemed to contribute much to human history is that in the western culture at least (in Muslim culture, for example, there were many notable female scholars during their golden age) women tended until very recently to be repressed. This is changing in modern times-- for example, the person who actually did the work and found out the shape of human DNA (the double helix) was Rosalind Franklin, with Watson and Crick simply being the ones to publish it and therefor get all the credit (which they gave her very little of, even though it was quite clear after the fact that she had basically done all of the technical and scholarly work).

Indeed, an egalitarian society such as Eldar, Tau, or Imperium would be able to produce more scientists (and similar professions) because of it not having such restrictions.

Melissia wrote:Indeed, an egalitarian society such as Eldar, Tau, or Imperium would be able to produce more scientists (and similar professions) because of it not having such restrictions.

The Tau are also able to produce more scientists diue to the fact that they form an integral pillar of their society with vast support from the Tau leadership.

Not just that, but their scientists are an entire subspecies of the Tau race(Earth Caste) with a breeding population dedicated entirely to that profession and associated professions.

Smarter women too.

Large brains are only possible through giving birth early in the developmental process in mammals. This would require some mechanism for the parent to provide for the offspring.

However, it's not entirely clear why human developed permanently enlarged mammary glands. It's been theorized that it was originally a display to indicate readiness to mate that became permanent as humans began to mate as a social interaction rather then strictly for breeding.

This behavior has been noticed in dolphins as well, so it *may* be something common to intelligent (as we recognize it), social, lifeforms in general. Though, granted, Dolphins don't have large breasts (stereamlined bodies = more food), Tau, being morphologically similar to humans, would most likely follow a similar pattern. Though this is entirely theoretical.

BaronIveagh wrote:Smarter women too.

Large brains are only possible through giving birth early in the developmental process in mammals. This would require some mechanism for the parent to provide for the offspring.

Well not really, Elephants are rather smart and are born nearly fully developed and its not about being able to give birth to the bigger heads (hopefully equalling bigger brains) its about the problem of having a mammalian body and being bipedal, which limits the size of a newborn.

BaronIveagh wrote:However, it's not entirely clear why human developed permanently enlarged mammary glands. It's been theorized that it was originally a display to indicate readiness to mate that became permanent as humans began to mate as a social interaction rather then strictly for breeding.

This behavior has been noticed in dolphins as well, so it *may* be something common to intelligent (as we recognize it), social, lifeforms in general. Though, granted, Dolphins don't have large breasts (stereamlined bodies = more food), Tau, being morphologically similar to humans, would most likely follow a similar pattern. Though this is entirely theoretical.

Using the same theory it could also be theorised that the Tau wouldn't have enlarged breasts, due to the constant selective breeding of each caste, breasts most likely wouldn'yt be a diffining reason why two tau had sex, so either never developed or was over time was decreased.

A theory for Tau breeding is that by now choice would be down to genetic advantage, so only the best qualities are passed on and due to the Greater Good mentality, it could be that the Tau no longer carry embryos but use vitri wombs, freeing up nearly half the population to carry on their work (discounting the number of Tau needed to work in these nurseries).

This thread is a touch off-topic...

Been that way for 4 pages, but it is now a more interesting discussion.

I suppose so....
Much more difficult one to argue however, due to lack of everything.

BluntmanDC wrote:Been that way for 4 pages, but it is now a more interesting discussion.

Indeed...

We are now taking about women in general in 40k...



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Melissia wrote:

Brother Coa wrote:-bigger boobs mean more milk for kids...
-more milk means that the kids grow even more stronger and smarter...
-smarter men means more advanced tech...

Don't you mean smarter kids when they become adults?

I was kidding....
But you are right, women are oppressed even in 40k ( just see the game models man>RULE>women )...

Brother Coa wrote:

BluntmanDC wrote:Been that way for 4 pages, but it is now a more interesting discussion.

Indeed...

We are now taking about women in general in 40k...



Automatically Appended Next Post:

Melissia wrote:

Brother Coa wrote:-bigger boobs mean more milk for kids...
-more milk means that the kids grow even more stronger and smarter...
-smarter men means more advanced tech...

Don't you mean smarter kids when they become adults?

I was kidding....
But you are right, women are oppressed even in 40k ( just see the game models man>RULE>women )...

Game=/=Fluff.
There could be perfect sexual equality but you wouldn't find that out from looking at the models...

purplefood wrote:
Game=/=Fluff.
There could be perfect sexual equality but you wouldn't find that out from looking at the models...

I know that, I was just implementing how much manly figurines are dominating the tables...
And in fluff there are little women mentioned, and if you want proof about that just see Space Marines and Vostroyans.

Brother Coa wrote:

purplefood wrote:
Game=/=Fluff.
There could be perfect sexual equality but you wouldn't find that out from looking at the models...

I know that, I was just implementing how much manly figurines are dominating the tables...
And in fluff there are little women mentioned, and if you want proof about that just see Space Marines and Vostroyans.

So...
If i want proof about sexual discrimination i should look at:
A)The faction that cannot recruit women due to non-compatibility problems rather than actual discrimination.
B)Another faction that specifically asks for Firstborn Sons and not Firstborn children. We all know how picky the Ministorum is, the Ecclesiarchy were allowed to get away with the Sisters because they are not "Men at arms"
So basically by looking at a tiny part of the entire fluff i can find out everything?
That should save lots of time...
p.s. that was sarcasm...

Then what about figurines, there is very little female Cadians around here...
And Catachans, Arbiters, Mordians, Valhallans...

You see my point?

Brother Coa wrote:Then what about figurines, there is very little female Cadians around here...
And Catachans, Arbiters, Mordians, Valhallans...

You see my point?

I refer you too my previosu point.
Models=/=Fluff

And i am talking about models, not fluff...

Brother Coa wrote:And i am talking about models, not fluff...

I wish i had a god to ask for strength.. oh wait...
CRASSUS ARMOURED ASSAULT TRANSPORT give me strength!
This is a forum about the background of 40k.
We are discussing the possible and uncertain existance of sexism in the Imperium of Man.
Saying that the models in our universe/reality don't have many/no female representatives doesn't make any sense.

Brother Coa wrote:And i am talking about models, not fluff...

The models are just because of GW's general incompetence rather than them actually being representative of anything. Rather pointless to discuss that really, especially here in the background section.

Yeah, in fluff we also don't see to much woman. But they are always respected and isome of them are in high positions.

We don't see many females in the fluff because BL's writers are about 99% male

Melissia wrote:We don't see many females in the fluff because BL's writers are about 99% male

I don't know why, but I find it easier to write female characters as opposed to males; I seem to be able to create more believable females whereas my male characters tend to be less so.

Part of the problem is BL makes certain assumptions about Sci-fi and fantasy readers, being that Sci-fi they're mostly teenage boys and Fantasy it's a mix.

The editorial mentality there runs something like 'What teenage boy would want to read about a female main character?' and so perfectly good stories get canned in favor of more SM drivel.

I would prefer more female characters to be honest...
I don't want to stereotype but they tend to get a better mix of emotions... the all males all the time thing is getting a bit weird.

purplefood wrote:I would prefer more female characters to be honest...
I don't want to stereotype but they tend to get a better mix of emotions... the all males all the time thing is getting a bit weird.

Let's be honest, weird doesn't begin to describe it. It's a sausage fest in space.

BaronIveagh wrote:

purplefood wrote:I would prefer more female characters to be honest...
I don't want to stereotype but they tend to get a better mix of emotions... the all males all the time thing is getting a bit weird.

Let's be honest, weird doesn't begin to describe it. It's a sausage fest in space.

Space sausages...
Actually let me just stop this before it goes all the way bad.

The only GW novel/graphic novel that I recall with a female protagonist was Daemonifugue. It would certainly be interesting if they decided to expand on the 2 graphic novels with at least a book.

Shigematsu wrote:The only GW novel/graphic novel that I recall with a female protagonist was Daemonifugue. It would certainly be interesting if they decided to expand on the 2 graphic novels with at least a book.

I liked that...
There was also the Arbites trilogy which featured a female protagonist.
That was an interesting 3 books.

BluntmanDC wrote:

Psienesis wrote:Humans are also the only species we know of, IRL, that have technology, civilization and culture. We developed differently than other primates, sure... but this same template cannot be said to be true of all other, as-yet-undiscovered and unknown, alien races.

a- humans did not evolve to fir a 'template'
b- so your whole position is that 'large breasts lead to high levels of technology'
c- culture, as it is difined is actually not a trait that only belongs to humans, primates and pack animals have cultures with complex levels of power, greeting gestures and rituals.
d- humans are not the only species on this planet that use technology, chimpanzes, bonobos and ravens all use tools

back to your old posts:

a- although tau have 'hair' this might not be the same type of material that is mammalian hair, many structures exist in the natural world that look like hair but are not mammalian hair.
b- breasts do not equal mammals, nearly all mammals have teats not breasts, so tau females (if they are mammal like creatures) don't need breasts to suckle their young.

Since we have not definitively determined where it was that human beings come from, we cannot say with certainty that we did or did not evolve, or are or are not continuing to evolve, to fit a template, although I was not suggesting that we at all are or were evolving to a template in that post, simply using the term as a short-hand reference to the commonly-held understanding of the human form compared to lesser primates. It is unlikely, to be sure, but I am not prepared to dismiss the possibility, mainly because there's no evidence for the possibility either in support or not. There's lots of things about our universe that we simply don't know... heck, there's lots of things about human physiology we simply don't know. It's also entirely besides the point in this topic, other than the fact that, as we have not yet encountered any extra-terrestrial intelligent life (in the way in which we measure such things) we have no idea if the humanoid form repeats itself elsewhere in the universe or if we are unique. It could be Star Trek out there, with everyone having a humanoid form and recognizable, and human-compatible, bits for daring starship captains to get their Kirking on. Or maybe every other race in the universe is a hyper-intelligent, sentient gas or small rodent. We just don't know. We may never know.

And, no, animals do not have "culture". The presence of mating rituals, greeting calls, and heirarchal pack structures does not "culture" make. Other primates use sticks and rocks they find, this is not the same thing as the construction of tools. Primates have yet to develop the wheel, the lever and the incline plane, independent of the employ of advantageous, though entirely naturally-occurring, features of their environment. A primate that picks up a rock that is naturally more-slender on one end than the other (thus forming a wedge) to crack open the shell of a fruit to get at the tasty insides has not created a tool for its use, it's simply making use of its environment. Not quite the same thing as the development of even simple tools like the wheel.

As far as Tau hair is concerned.... yes, it might not be mammalian hair, but, by the same token, it might be. Again, lacking any definitive response from GW, one person's suggestion is as valid as another's when it comes to this topic. This same thing holds true for the presence, or lack, of breasts on Tau females. We don't know, GW hasn't yet provided a canonical model to determine it, and this leaves it up to the design of the individual gamer and modeler. However, speaking on an evolutionary topic, there's a number of theories as to why human breasts have evolved the way they have, though (as with so much involving human evolution) there's as-yet no definitive answer. Perhaps the most likely being that they offer a baby a soft, comforting surface to rest against while nursing, where the mother's ribcage and body offer this function in quadrupeds, while another likely possibility is that, because the mammary glands are designed to provide proteins and sugars loaded with antimicrobial enzymes through lactation, the breasts evolved as a way of supporting (no pun intended) and enhancing this function. Given some of these theories, however, it's not impossible that another humanoid species evolved along similar lines.

BaronIveagh wrote:

Psienesis wrote:I don't think the involvement of the Old Ones really enters into the picture. Some of the races created by the Old Ones share physical similarities (Human/Eldar) while others (Human/K'nib) do not.

In other words, it doesn't matter if the Old Ones created Humans and Eldar and not Tau, or not, because that doesn't alter the possibility that Tau do or do not have breasts and other mammalian humanoid features. The marks of the Old One's influence in the evolution of your species is not the presence of a great rack, nor is the absence thereof a sign that your race was not altered by the Old Ones.

For some reason, and I hate to admit this, I had this mental image of a bikini clad blond with huge tracts of land posing with an elder sign tattoo on her breasts and saying 'Look, the Mark of the Old Ones!' when I read this.

Oh, good... *someone* got the humor, at least.


ETA: We *have* gone rather off-topic on the discussion of Tau evolution. If a mod wants to split all this off into a "Tau and their Tits" topic, no complaints here.

purplefood wrote:
Space sausages...
Actually let me just stop this before it goes all the way bad.

I have a feeling you have just feed Slaanesh with your imagination of Space sausages and Cadian females


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Shigematsu wrote:The only GW novel/graphic novel that I recall with a female protagonist was Daemonifugue. It would certainly be interesting if they decided to expand on the 2 graphic novels with at least a book.

To bad they didn't finish it..
There is one with Kal Jerico and his mother. They go on a space hulk...
And there is "Exterminatus" with female Arbiter.

Shigematsu wrote:The only GW novel/graphic novel that I recall with a female protagonist was Daemonifugue. It would certainly be interesting if they decided to expand on the 2 graphic novels with at least a book.

In Gotrek and Felix one of the main protaginists is Ulrika (A Kislev noblewoman), She even got her own spin-off book(s)

Psienesis wrote:Since we have not definitively determined where it was that human beings come from, we cannot say with certainty that we did or did not evolve, or are or are not continuing to evolve.

I'm sorry but that statement is utter rubbish the amount of evidence is massive, but i don't want to get into this arguement on the background thread.

BluntmanDC wrote:

Psienesis wrote:Since we have not definitively determined where it was that human beings come from, we cannot say with certainty that we did or did not evolve, or are or are not continuing to evolve.

I'm sorry but that statement is utter rubbish the amount of evidence is massive, but i don't want to get into this arguement on the background thread.

Haha no we do not want this on the background forum.

Right, let's leave real-world religion out of this.

Melissia wrote:That picture would be perfect, if it weren't for the disgusting amount of makeup. As it is, the makeup makes her look like some sort of whore cosplaying for a client.

Yeah it's hilarious how the artist found it logical that female troops will always have time to apply makeup. How about making it a little more believable (Yes I know this is in a world with psychics etc). Still when you see male IG they are usually dirty/look like they've seen combat, while here it looks like as you said a mere cosplayer.

"Ok, it's time for the grand review, and ladies, you had BETTER NOT embarrass me in front of the other colonels! I REFUSE to look like I do not know how to run a regiment in front of those sausage smuggling Neanderthals! SO, I want EVERY LAST Emperor Blessed one of you to have your boots shined and lipstick gloss ON! AM I UNDERSTOOD?"

BluntmanDC wrote:

Psienesis wrote:Since we have not definitively determined where it was that human beings come from, we cannot say with certainty that we did or did not evolve, or are or are not continuing to evolve.

I'm sorry but that statement is utter rubbish the amount of evidence is massive, but i don't want to get into this arguement on the background thread.

Did he just said that Darvin theory was wrong? Isn't that proven that he have evolved from apes?

Brother Coa wrote:

BluntmanDC wrote:

Psienesis wrote:Since we have not definitively determined where it was that human beings come from, we cannot say with certainty that we did or did not evolve, or are or are not continuing to evolve.

I'm sorry but that statement is utter rubbish the amount of evidence is massive, but i don't want to get into this arguement on the background thread.

Did he just said that Darvin theory was wrong? Isn't that proven that he have evolved from apes?

We didn't evolve from apes.
Learn the Theory before questioning others disbelief in it.

Just watch both Starship Troopers movies and it ansers this whole thread just fine, Yes there are female troopers because thats the way humanity is.

purplefood wrote:

Brother Coa wrote:

BluntmanDC wrote:

Psienesis wrote:Since we have not definitively determined where it was that human beings come from, we cannot say with certainty that we did or did not evolve, or are or are not continuing to evolve.

I'm sorry but that statement is utter rubbish the amount of evidence is massive, but i don't want to get into this arguement on the background thread.

Did he just said that Darvin theory was wrong? Isn't that proven that he have evolved from apes?

We didn't evolve from apes.
Learn the Theory before questioning others disbelief in it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_ape Here you have a paragraph about Human evolution. Seems like apes to me...


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LordWynne wrote:Just watch both Starship Troopers movies and it ansers this whole thread just fine, Yes there are female troopers because thats the way humanity is.

Watch part 3, the song is awesome and perfect match for the Imperial Guard.
Anyway, problem is that we don't see much woman in the Imperial Guard, there are some. But man dominate the Guard way to much.

Brother Coa wrote:

purplefood wrote:

Brother Coa wrote:

BluntmanDC wrote:

Psienesis wrote:Since we have not definitively determined where it was that human beings come from, we cannot say with certainty that we did or did not evolve, or are or are not continuing to evolve.

I'm sorry but that statement is utter rubbish the amount of evidence is massive, but i don't want to get into this arguement on the background thread.

Did he just said that Darvin theory was wrong? Isn't that proven that he have evolved from apes?

We didn't evolve from apes.
Learn the Theory before questioning others disbelief in it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_ape Here you have a paragraph about Human evolution. Seems like apes to me...

Hominidae is the family we are in.
We evolved from that as did apes.
At any rate it isn't the reason Chritisnas dislike the Theory of Natural Selection.

There's a reason it's still called the "Theory of Evolution". It hasn't been proven as fact yet, and there are still several pieces missing from the puzzle. It has not yet been proven that we evolved from apes.

Psienesis wrote:There's a reason it's still called the "Theory of Evolution". It hasn't been proven as fact yet, and there are still several pieces missing from the puzzle. It has not yet been proven that we evolved from apes.

A - we didn't evolve from apes, no current scientific belief says we did, apes didn't exist during the start of the evoluion of our species, we as primates all evolved together from common ancestors.
B - the word 'theory' in a scientific use means something completely different to the word 'theory' outside of scientific use. you're imagining of the theory of evolution would actually be the hypothesis of evolution, this is a common mistake with people who use that phase.
C - when debating about scienetific ideas on a thread, such as how a race evolved (as the Tau are clearly said to have evolved), bringing religious beliefs which are counter to the 40k universe is of no help to the discussion.
D - evolution can be seen and felt all around us, why do you think bacteria become resitant to drugs, or look at any farm animal, all of them have all gone through forced evolution.


Anyway, i was thinking about how i could use the grey knight codex if i ever wanted to and the idea of a black ship retrival force, using ordo heriticus inquisitors with warriors (converted sister of battle) and null rods to play as sisters of silence and then lots of inquisitorial stormtroopers (unfortunately using henchmen).

I think making female armies can be done, but i do prefer conversions/models that don't make gimicks out of them being women.

Ehm... mine is the entirely wrong tree to bark up if you want to bring RL religious beliefs into a topic, being that I'm an atheist. Still, the fact remains that human evolution from apes is, as yet, unproven. "Hypothesis" is a fine word to use in place of "theory". It is, as yet, an unproven hypothesis.

It also has nothing to do with the evolution of an entirely fictional race of blue-skinned Space Commies, except for use as a comparative example.

Psienesis wrote:Ehm... mine is the entirely wrong tree to bark up if you want to bring RL religious beliefs into a topic, being that I'm an atheist. Still, the fact remains that human evolution from apes is, as yet, unproven. "Hypothesis" is a fine word to use in place of "theory". It is, as yet, an unproven hypothesis.

It also has nothing to do with the evolution of an entirely fictional race of blue-skinned Space Commies, except for use as a comparative example.

It's got strong enough evidence for us to be pretty much certain it is in fact correct. Unless God is THE biggest troll ever...

It would certainly explain a lot.

Hey if i was God it's what i would do.

I'm wondering how this relates to female Cadians at this point?

It doesn't... we established fairly early on, up-thread, that Cadians can, and probably do, have mixed-gender or, at the very least, female soldiers in its regiments... which somehow then moved on to whether or not Tau have boobs. Being that this involves a subject of great interest and import to players of all stripes, the topic then went boldy, blithely onward, with battlelines drawn in the sand as to whether or not Tau have boobs and why, or why not, they do (or don't).

I later suggested a split-off of the thread, called "Tau and their Tits" (or something), but that did not seem to garner much interest. Perhaps "Tatas, Tau and You" for a touch of more-obvious humor? At some point, platypi got involved, I'm not really sure how, though I blame Slaanesh. Or maybe Tzeentch.

I blame Matt Ward... and the Victim of course...

Psienesis wrote:There's a reason it's still called the "Theory of Evolution". It hasn't been proven as fact yet, and there are still several pieces missing from the puzzle. It has not yet been proven that we evolved from apes.

Seriously, everyone, shut the hell up on evolution and natural selection. As evidenced by this post, most people here don't even know what a scientific theory is. Quoth Wikipedia (which while not the most reliable source is in this case substantially accurate) "A scientific theory is constructed to conform to available empirical data about such observations, and is put forth as a principle or body of principles for explaining a class of phenomena." Being provable based off of the knowledge, data, and understanding we have today is the very definition of a scientific theory.

For that matter, most people, even the nerds that come on this forum, would probably find On the Origin of Species to be a rather hard read, and few people, yes even the ones here, can likely honestly claim to both have read it and understood it, nevermind read and understood the rest of the later research on the subject by scientists not as famous as Darwin. Who here has read anything by Edward Osborne Wilson? Probably only people who are majoring in evolutionary biology to begin with, or perhaps those whom are majoring in sociology and psychology (as his most famous book, Sociobiology, covers the links between evolution and social constructs of a species).

And honestly, what does all of this have to do with females in the Imperial Guard, nevermind females in Cadia?

I think we left that topic a while ago Liss...
This thread has run its course several times over.
Time to lock and be done with it?

Melissia wrote:

Psienesis wrote:There's a reason it's still called the "Theory of Evolution". It hasn't been proven as fact yet, and there are still several pieces missing from the puzzle. It has not yet been proven that we evolved from apes.

Seriously, everyone, shut the hell up on evolution and natural selection. As evidenced by this post, most people here don't even know what a scientific theory is. Quoth Wikipedia (which while not the most reliable source is in this case substantially accurate) "A scientific theory is constructed to conform to available empirical data about such observations, and is put forth as a principle or body of principles for explaining a class of phenomena." Being provable based off of the knowledge, data, and understanding we have today is the very definition of a scientific theory.

For that matter, most people, even the nerds that come on this forum, would probably find On the Origin of Species to be a rather hard read, and few people, yes even the ones here, can likely honestly claim to both have read it and understood it, nevermind read and understood the rest of the later research on the subject by scientists not as famous as Darwin. Who here has read anything by Edward Osborne Wilson? Probably only people who are majoring in evolutionary biology to begin with, or perhaps those whom are majoring in sociology and psychology (as his most famous book, Sociobiology, covers the links between evolution and social constructs of a species).

And honestly, what does all of this have to do with females in the Imperial Guard, nevermind females in Cadia?

purplefood wrote:I think we left that topic a while ago Liss...
This thread has run its course several times over.
Time to lock and be done with it?

I agree with both of these statements. Arguing over HUMAN evolution is no way to discuss if Tau evolved. This is a fictional universe that can literally have anything happen, humans given life extension treatments, extra organs and power armor that attaches to their bodies with neural spikes. This said, how is the Tau evolving a subject of controversy?

I also agree the thread has run its course, however that is for a mod to decide.

Wow, this topic is off course. Anytime people start arguing over evolution, my eyes start glazing over. Not because I don't understand the arguments on both sides (I at least like to *think* that I can follow along), but because I've got better things to do with my time than sit and listen to something that eventually boils down to people arguing, "Uh-huh! Uh-uh! Uh-huh! Uh-uh!" Topics like this - much like politics - are best left for private discussions amongst friends.

And even then you need to be careful.


The irony, of course, is that I first figured out why I should avoid talking about politics while I was serving as a missionary and spending lots of time talking to people about religion...

BaronIveagh wrote:

Eumerin wrote:
And on a completely unrelated and off-topic note, during the course of my previous post (I was trying to track down an image to link, but eventually decided not to bother) I discovered that the Appleseed animated series is back on track!

EXCELLENT. Maybe now Shirow will f'ing FINISH VOLUME 5! *ACHEM* Sorry...

Check your PMs.

Eumerin wrote:The irony, of course, is that I first figured out why I should avoid talking about politics while I was serving as a missionary and spending lots of time talking to people about religion...

As my father says, you simply don't discuss religion and politics in polite company.

Eumerin wrote:

Check your PMs.

I Did. And... meh. I really can't get into shirow's new obsession with cgi. I liked his pencil and ink work better.

Spetulhu wrote:As my father says, you simply don't discuss religion and politics in polite company.

Granted, but I've otherwise found the two go well together, particularly when, say, praying to god that the next mortar barrage is no more accurate then the last one and discussing just what sort of fiery pit the other side's leaders should spend the rest of eternity.

You guys talked about tits, evolution and religion from the page 5... Why this thread is not closed for going off topic? KillKrazy closed the last one ( Tau and Warp travel ) after 3 off-topic posts, so why not this one also? No matter...

Let us all return to the OP. So Cadian female Regiments are actually PDF, while most men are going off planet campaigns. What about girls? Are they also go to Whiteshields as boys? And how is Cadian female private raising her child while in acting service, do she get some kind of leave or she is holding her child in the barracks?

That's standard Cadian regiments from Cadia at any rate. Other Cadian regiments that were sent to colonize other worlds could very well have other ideas on the subject. It's just the nature of 40k.

Besides, if a homeguard regiment proved its worth, it could very well be taken on a crusade elsewhere.

I agree with that...

Except we have absolutely no basis for the assumption that women are limited to the home-guard or PDF. The only Cadian regiments we have any information on in detail are the 8th and 91st.

It's certainly not the case with Valhallens, who segregate the troops by gender, normally, or the Jouran Dragoons, who seem to raise nothing BUT mixed gender units.

According to fluff, all Cadian youths serve in the youth armies and then the white shields.

Well we do have a basis for the assumption.
Cadia needs to maintain the Birth rates otherwise the population will begin to decline. It makes sense that unless the birth rate was outstripping the mortality rate they would try and keep any women in the Interior guard rather than send them to other planets.

purplefood wrote:Well we do have a basis for the assumption.
Cadia needs to maintain the Birth rates otherwise the population will begin to decline. It makes sense that unless the birth rate was outstripping the mortality rate they would try and keep any women in the Interior guard rather than send them to other planets.

Again, the problem is math:

At 1064 regiments of Cadians (based off the unit numbers of the most recently raised units for the Black Crusade) Cadia is only supporting 5,320,000 troops in the IG.

That's only about half the military of Russia, assuming that every regiment follows the standard sizes mentioned for the Cadian 8th and 91st.

Compare this to Kreig, where a single regiment may number upwards of 250,000 troopers (though, granted, they also produce soldiers in factories somehow, though it's not clear if they're clones)

They aren't clones. Trust me on this.
I'm not sure if that lists the Interior guard or not so i cannot make a judgement.

BaronIveagh wrote:

purplefood wrote:Well we do have a basis for the assumption.
Cadia needs to maintain the Birth rates otherwise the population will begin to decline. It makes sense that unless the birth rate was outstripping the mortality rate they would try and keep any women in the Interior guard rather than send them to other planets.

Again, the problem is math:

At 1064 regiments of Cadians (based off the unit numbers of the most recently raised units for the Black Crusade) Cadia is only supporting 5,320,000 troops in the IG.

That's only about half the military of Russia, assuming that every regiment follows the standard sizes mentioned for the Cadian 8th and 91st.

They don't. Cadia also fields Armored Regiments and Mechanized Regiments, which follow standard organizational tables for those particular things though.

Compare this to Kreig, where a single regiment may number upwards of 250,000 troopers (though, granted, they also produce soldiers in factories somehow, though it's not clear if they're clones)

The "clones" part is iffy right now. It seems the best explanation, but it might also be simply that they've got testtubebaby facilities.

Kanluwen wrote:
They don't. Cadia also fields Armored Regiments and Mechanized Regiments, which follow standard organizational tables for those particular things though.

That *is* counting the Armored and mechanized regiments. Footsloggers only got to 840.

Cadian infantry: 840th
Mech Infantry: 212th
Cadian Armored: 12th

Remember kids:

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/SciFiWritersHaveNoSenseOfScale

BaronIveagh wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:
They don't. Cadia also fields Armored Regiments and Mechanized Regiments, which follow standard organizational tables for those particular things though.

That *is* counting the Armored and mechanized regiments. Footsloggers only got to 840.

Then there's something wrong with your numbers.

Which I think I've found the source of in that you were going off of the unit numbers recently raised for the Black Crusade.

There were supposed to be at least 1k regiments already operating prior to that. They just weren't all within the sector.

Melissia wrote:Remember kids:

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/SciFiWritersHaveNoSenseOfScale

Mel, I think we proved that with the wild fluctuations in the size of Imperial ships and their crews alone.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Kanluwen wrote:
Then there's something wrong with your numbers.

Which I think I've found the source of in that you were going off of the unit numbers recently raised for the Black Crusade.

There were supposed to be at least 1k regiments already operating prior to that. They just weren't all within the sector.

I admit that it's based on the flawed assumption that 840 comes after 839 still when the Imperium counts, but I think that regiments that are stated to be 'new' without any previous battle honors or history are, in fact, 'new'. The Imperium seems to recycle regiment numbers, but it also retains their previous battle honors.

The 840's first battle honor was Tyvok Fields, so...


Though I did miscount: It was 212th armored and 12th heavy tank company: Cadian mech infantry is counted in the same count as any other shock troop regiment. So the numbers would have to be revised downward since I counted all 12 heavy tank companies as full regiments.

DKoK's highest regiment I could find any mention of was the 1060th. So 840 isn't too far off that, considering Cadia doesn't grow people in vats.

Mech infantry are kind of a mixed bag.

Some sources have them being distinctly separate regiments from 'any other Shock Troop regiments', while others have the Shock Troop regiments having their own units that are mechanized.

Did you get a count of Kasrkin regiments? Cause they're fielded as well, since the Cadians tend to 'pft' at Schola Progenium Stormtroopers.

What about Youth Regiments?

Kanluwen wrote:Mech infantry are kind of a mixed bag.

Some sources have them being distinctly separate regiments from 'any other Shock Troop regiments', while others have the Shock Troop regiments having their own units that are mechanized.

Did you get a count of Kasrkin regiments? Cause they're fielded as well, since the Cadians tend to 'pft' at Schola Progenium Stormtroopers.

What about Youth Regiments?

No data available on either of those, but logically, since Kasrkin are something like the top 1% of the whiteshields and Cadian IG are the top 10% or so...

Whiteshields are also an unknown quantity. Very little post-1st edition information is available. Every Cadian takes part in the whiteshields, but it's not clear how long tehy serve if not picked up for the IG.

If I can add something to the discussion, can we really be sure the Munitorum gives the regiments their designation number based on chronological order of foundation alone? I know it's BL, which is hardly canon, and that we are speaking about Cadians, not Valhallans, but in the first book of Cain series, didn't they designate the combined regiment as 597th just because it fitted and no other regiment had that number?

They added the 2 previous numbers together and got that.
The numbers are usually chronological but can also be applied for different reasons so go figure.

On a seperate tangent, there's a thing I just noticed. For Eldar, the Dawn of War series has something like 5 for 5 for farseers being female (Macha, Taldeer, Caerys, Idranel, Elenwe) and the sole Autarch (Kayleth) is also female. The Eldar GW model line is 5 male farseers, 4 male Autarchs. This all seems kinda odd.

Not really. See, Relic wants more female characters because it appeals to a broader audience than GW does. Because Relic is a more intelligent company than GW, but that's an entirely different tangent.

iirc, the solitaire was female as well.

Though it should be noted that if you gave DoW II's farseer a helmet and a masculine voice, you could almost get away with calling it male. The feminine attributes are much less noticeable than they are on the autarch and DoW I farseer (who both have very obvious bumps in their armor for breasts).

Melissia wrote:Not really. See, Relic wants more female characters because it appeals to a broader audience than GW does. Because Relic is a more intelligent company than GW, but that's an entirely different tangent.

Though I think they did somewhat rectify it for the Dark Eldar model line, I'm hoping they do the same with the Eldar when they... eventually get around to updating them again. Until then, I have to keep taking parts from the wood elves.

I have never read or heard of women doing anything useful in the world of WH40k being the Sisters of Battle or the Imperial Gaurd

I hope you're trolling...

... otherwise, Patience Kys and Kara Swole might want to have a "talk" with you.

How about Inquisitor Vale?

I'd forgotten her name, actually, but that's another one.

Heck, there's a ton of female Inquisitors in the books and in the fluff that are definitely movers-and-shakers in their respective regions of the Imperium, to say nothing of the female Rogue Traders who are heads of their dynasties and are out there beyond the edge, kicking xeno butt and raking in huge profits in the name of the Emperor.

I like kicking ass and raking in huge profits... in the Emperor's name, of course....

Ummm... Let' see. On females and the IoM:

Inquisitors: Check
Ecclesiarchs of various rank and standing: Check. Think I read somewhere about a female Cardinal...
High ranking Administratum officers: Check
Rogue traders: Check
Officio Assassinorum: Check
Mechanicum: Are they even males anymore?.
Schola Psykana/Adeptus Astra Telepathica/Navigators/Navis Nobilite: More than likely.
Adeptus Astartes: Obviously, no fems amongst the poster boys of the mysoginistic 80s.
IG Commanders:... I'd love to see an "Iron Lady" type character, a Lady Malys or O'Shasherra for the Imperial Guard. None so far.
Imperial Guard soldiery: Check. Depends on planet of origin, though.

As a rule, I'd say the Imperium gets more egalitarian as you climb up the social ladder. The galaxy offers a wide range of career opportunities for a well-to-do lady with a taste for adventure and, considering the main business of the Imperium is war, most of them are in or around the military. Things are different for the lowest echelons of society, though. The Imperium's main business, as I wrote before, is war. War in an absolutely mind-numbing scale. And their currency is manpower.

Some worlds meet their tithes by pressing every single human being able to hold a lasgun into service (Valhalla? Tanith?). Others produce clones in vats (Krieg). But I'm afraid most worlds (Mordian, Tallarn, Vostroya...) just recruit males and leave the soon-to-be widowers behind to nurture and educate the next batch of conscripts.

Cadia is surely different, though, being a fortress world on an extremely dangerous location to begin with. Even if the ladies are left behind to man the PDF, they'll have to deal with the threat of the Eye of Terror on a daily basis. Won't be surprised if any future mention of Cadian females describes them as even tougher than their male counterparts!.

Agent_Tremolo wrote:
Adeptus Astartes: Obviously, no fems amongst the poster boys of the mysoginistic 80s.
IG Commanders:... I'd love to see an "Iron Lady" type character, a Lady Malys or O'Shasherra for the Imperial Guard. None so far.
Imperial Guard soldiery: Check. Depends on planet of origin, though.

How about Regina Kasteen of the 597th?

Kriegsmen aren't clones... at least not in the true sense of the word.
Votroyan regiments are very specifically the firstborn sons.
There is no evidence either way AFAIK of Tallarn or Mordian regiments only being all-male.

BaronIveagh wrote:

Agent_Tremolo wrote:
Adeptus Astartes: Obviously, no fems amongst the poster boys of the mysoginistic 80s.
IG Commanders:... I'd love to see an "Iron Lady" type character, a Lady Malys or O'Shasherra for the Imperial Guard. None so far.
Imperial Guard soldiery: Check. Depends on planet of origin, though.

How about Regina Kasteen of the 597th?

Given that most Imperial Guard regiments are monogender, it's probably accurate to say that there are a lot of female colonels. You need a woman to lead your all-female regiments, after all. But Sulla later rises to the position of general, and iirc there's a comment somewhere indicating it's unusual to see a woman in that position.

Actually it was Lady General, rather than just general.

The main reason GW doesn't have many female characters is because they just don't think about it in the first place, they're not misogynistic, they're just lazy which has the same result without the ill intent.

Melissia wrote:Actually it was Lady General, rather than just general.

The main reason GW doesn't have many female characters is because they just don't think about it in the first place, they're not misogynistic, they're just lazy which has the same result without the ill intent.

Plus they seem to have trouble sculpting the female form. Up until recently that is, The Dark Eldar models are awesome.

purplefood wrote:
There is no evidence either way AFAIK of Tallarn or Mordian regiments only being all-male.

One of the Cain books had Tallarns in it, I think Trader's Hand, and they were disgusted by the idea of the Valhallans having women in their army, let alone a mixed regiment.

Not Definitive proof but a good guess.

Just a point -

While it is pretty barbaric for women to serve on front-line duty in the military (even the Soviets didn't do that), I wouldn't be surprised if all-female regiments are used fairly widely throughout the imperium.

For one, many planets are fairly barbaric in that way. Attilans, like the steppe hordes on earth, probably have women fighters, and other feral planets likely do the same.

Furthermore, many more planets than that are extremely desperate, or are just very cold and cruel, and judge it necessary to stoop to that level, and employ everyone in the slaughterhouse of their front. For example, Cadia is in constant threat of being destroyed by the dark powers, and therefore might find it necessary to sacrifice their moral high ground for another few regiments. Another example is of course Valhalla, known for meat-grinding tactics and heartless sensibilities.

Hmm... not sure why its more barbaric to have women front line troops than men. Or are we back to assuming that forcing young women to be nasty fighters somehow detracts from their natural fluffiness and that their propensity to faint clean away in stressful situations might cause problems in the trenches?

Also if we are referencing WW2 then the Soviet army did have female front line troops. Not necessarily riflemen, but a lot of the anti-aircraft and anti-tank detachments were all-female.

This has probably been done by now (and could be classed as irrelevant, but whatever), but I think most Western nations have women in their front line forces now. Israel certainly maintains all-female combat formations.

Back in the 40k universe, however, its a big place and anything can happen. The fact that there are multiple references all throughout the Canon of effective female combatants would tend to support that its more than likely that there are all-female Cadian regiments.

prussia59 wrote:Just a point -

While it is pretty barbaric for women to serve on front-line duty in the military (even the Soviets didn't do that)

?

While everyone's heard about the female Soviet fighter pilots, the Soviets also used women as front-line ground combatants in World War 2. One of the most famous was Maria Oktyabrskaya. Her husband was a military officer who was killed early on during the German invasion. When she received word of his death, she sold everything she owned and donated the proceeds to the Soviet government to help finance the construction of a T-34 tank - with the stipulation that she be allowed to drive the tank in question. The Soviet government realized that they had a good propaganda opportunity on their hands, and agreed. She was accepted into the military, and assigned as the driver of "her" tank, which she nicknamed 'Fighting Girlfriend'. Despite the attention-getting manner of her enlistment, she became recognized as a couragous and skilled member of her tank crew. Unfortunately, she was KIA in either late '43 or early '44.

It's somewhat difficult to locate information on most of the women who served on the ground in English language sources, but here are a couple of links with very basic information -

http://www.museum-t-34.ru/en/ngroup.php?id=3 (scroll down about four fifths of the way down the page to 'Women and Tanks')
http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?f=79&t=117307&start=0

Israel certainly does, Flinty, as it is in a position like Cadia. At any moment about to be swallowed up by neighboring forces bent on doing it harm. It also maintains a draft.

But, I'm afraid you've gotten the wrong impression, because while Western nations allow women to serve their country in their militaries, they are not stationed in front line stations.

Now, this being said, only about 10% of the entire military is classified as front-line, and the other 90% does see combat. But I stick to my original statement as true.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Eumerin wrote:

prussia59 wrote:Just a point -

While it is pretty barbaric for women to serve on front-line duty in the military (even the Soviets didn't do that)

?

While everyone's heard about the female Soviet fighter pilots, the Soviets also used women as front-line ground combatants in World War 2. One of the most famous was Maria Oktyabrskaya. Her husband was a military officer who was killed early on during the German invasion. When she received word of his death, she sold everything she owned and donated the proceeds to the Soviet government to help finance the construction of a T-34 tank - with the stipulation that she be allowed to drive the tank in question. The Soviet government realized that they had a good propaganda opportunity on their hands, and agreed. She was accepted into the military, and assigned as the driver of "her" tank, which she nicknamed 'Fighting Girlfriend'. Despite the attention-getting manner of her enlistment, she became recognized as a couragous and skilled member of her tank crew. Unfortunately, she was KIA in either late '43 or early '44.

It's somewhat difficult to locate information on most of the women who served on the ground in English language sources, but here are a couple of links with very basic information -

http://www.museum-t-34.ru/en/ngroup.php?id=3 (scroll down about four fifths of the way down the page to 'Women and Tanks')
http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?f=79&t=117307&start=0

And thank you for correcting me. I was mistaken.