I dont want to drag down the WYSIWYG thread be we seam to have reached a subject that many have opinions on and I want to know how the community feels. So sound off if ya gotta pair

P.S. this is not an attack on anyone so keep it civil please

Humanity has been drinking for thousands upon thousands of years, with the majority chuckling at the rare teetotaller.

Like with all things in life, it is only that small minority incapable of self-control and respect for others that actually drinks too much, or behaves inappropriately.

You'll often find the people who annoy you as drunken gamers annoyed you as sober gamers to begin with anyway.

MVBrandt wrote:You'll often find the people who annoy you as drunken gamers annoyed you as sober gamers to begin with anyway.

Truth!

I have no problem with someone drinking during a game. I do have a problem with someone being noticably drunk during a game. If it is enough for me to notice how intoxicated you are then you are evidencing some not-so-awesome behavior that I don't want to have to deal with.

Yes, not all people who drink are TFG and it is perfectly acceptable, but being drunk at a Warhams event can show a big lack of respect.

Drinking itself isn't bad, or rude.

Getting drunk is.

Personally, I don't drink, but I'd be fine with people drinking during the game, aslong as they don't start throwing up or something.

I don't drink but I don't mind if people have a couple of drinks over the course of the day. Don't particularly want to play someone who is slurring and can barely stand up though.

I'd be tempted to call a judge over if that were the case.

Even "drunk" is one of those terms that is bandied about too liberally. Some people have one drink and they're smashing models to the floor left and right; others have 10 and they laugh a little louder and not much else changes.

I think this is one of those subjects so very different from individual to individual that it would be better asked - should people do things that cause them to be massive douchecanoes in a tournament setting? The answer, like EVERYWHERE ELSE IN LIFE, is "no."

Some people can and do drink their butts off on occasion, and are perfectly incongruous or even nicer / comfier as a result of it. Some people have one drink and turn into raging angrypants psychobitches.

This thread has that possibility of going smack dab into angry opinionville, instead of the flat base acknowledgment that we ALL have a problem with "that guy" in life .... kinda whatever the reason.

I'm not a fan of people drinking during games, just like I wouldn't want someone smoking during a game. There's a time and place for everything and if someone 'needs' a drink, then go to a bar.

I'm going to say what I said in the other thread:

Having a few drinks is fine. Getting sloppy, slurring your speech and generally being trashed is not. As cute as one think that they might be when they're inebriated, I assure you that to most observers (unless you're Dudley Moore) are just going to think that you look like a complete fool.

Luckily, I've never really had this problem at a a tournament. I like to have a few during the day at an event and I don't mind when others do. Just keep your gak together.

i myself don't drink.

But at the same time, i do not mind at all if others do.

As long as they dont get drunk etc etc.

To me.. i drink pepsi/sprite is the same as somone having a couple of beers while they play.

Drinking water - good!
Drinking alcohol-if you are legal and not to drunkeness - ok
Drinking sterno - REQUIRED!

MVBrandt wrote: raging angrypants psychobitches.

Okay so I completely agree with MVBrandt - drinking isn't a problem unless the person doing it becomes a problem.

But that phrase is gold. I had a good chuckle at that one.

MVBrandt wrote:This thread has that possibility of going smack dab into angry opinionville, instead of the flat base acknowledgment that we ALL have a problem with "that guy" in life .... kinda whatever the reason.

I think it's been pretty reasonable so far.

Yeah, but dealing with "that guy" who is terrible when he's sober is likely much worse when he's drunk.

Monster Rain wrote:I'm going to say what I said in the other thread:

Having a few drinks is fine. Getting sloppy, slurring your speech and generally being trashed is not. As cute as one think that they might be when they're inebriated, I assure you that to most observers (unless you're Dudley Moore) are just going to think that you look like a complete fool.

Luckily, I've never really had this problem at a a tournament. I like to have a few during the day at an event and I don't mind when others do. Just keep your gak together.

Drinking in a tournament setting - whether it's a bottle of soda, a glass of water, or a fifth of scotch - is a bad idea because there's too much of a risk of spillage and potentially ruining a model or table.

Feel free to drink between games, on that I could care less.

Although if you expect to get drunk and drive home you can expect a call to the cops with your license number.

MVBrandt wrote:Even "drunk" is one of those terms that is bandied about too liberally. Some people have one drink and they're smashing models to the floor left and right; others have 10 and they laugh a little louder and not much else changes.

Lets define it then, shall we?

http://kidshealth.org/teen/drug_alcohol/alcohol/alcohol.html#

The guy who's laughing a little louder probably isn't who people are having a problem with.


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biccat wrote:Although if you expect to get drunk and drive home you can expect a call to the cops with your license number.

That's just being a good citizen.

It doesn't really matter whether an individual is sober, or a little less so. What matters is the social skills. Is the person behaving appropriately or not?

That F'n guy is that f'n guy... sober or not.

Drink. Don't drink. I don't care. Just don't be a d**.

Well, as of yet I haven't been to any tournaments, however I have been to more than my share of concerts and sporting events.... and you run into the same thing there.

Some people are really fine, fun and nice drunk people. Others, turn into total rage-aholics after a few drinks.

I have met and partied with all kinds of people from all walks of life thanks to five years in the army, and for the most part I've found that if you don't like someone when they're sober... you probably won't like them when they're drunk.

There are of course exceptions to this, some people I've known went from being TFG to some that was quite likeable after putting away three or four drinks. And sometimes, a few drinks can help you better cope with people like that.

Personally, I would have to say that drinking at a tournament would be fine, provided that there was moderation involved, and not a bunch of belligerent fools making a scene in front of any children who happen to be there.

Personally I rarely drink in the morning and little in the afternoon, unless it's a sunday afternoon or something.

That said people who drink to *excess* are never much fun if you want to do anything more than drink with them. Any sort of activity is likely to be spoiled.

Drinking at a tournament isn't substantially different from trying hard to win at a tournament, in that neither, alone, are a problem for most people.

Some people get a few drinks, mellow out, and are a ton of fun. Others have a problem.

I will say this: any negative behavior that's the result of drinking that wouldn't happen while sober, is in fact the fault of drinking, and thus the drinking is bad. If you know that you're a jerk when you drink, and you drink, you're being a jerk.

I got trashed last night while playing a game, and I was perfectly friendly and calm, even through a rules debate which I won. Not everyone turns into a prohibition era caricature when they're drunk. Personally, though I might be an alcoholic, I can't trust a man who doesn't drink.

Also, I'll leave this here:

What has been seen cannot be unseen!

Yeah, you don't wanna be THOSE guys.

Morning drinking is a little much.

My personal least favorite are people who drink the night before, or on Saturday night - such that they are hung over and in a bad mood Saturday or Sunday morning for gaming. People who are hung over are usually the least fun to play against.

I usually start drinking in the afternoon on Saturday, around game 3 after lunch (presuming there are two morning rounds). By the time the first day ends I've got a heady buzz going on, and I stop drinking, go to dinner, drink water, clear my head and am fresh for the next morning. Personally, I rarely drink on Sundays for two day events because of the travel time involved getting back home.

Some people have mentioned that drinking can make you friendlier. There's a lateral statement that holds true as well. Drinking can also raise your douche tolerance. I've seen some raging arguments at GTs. Shouting, yelling, TO interventions....I've never had to sit through any of that myself and am grateful. I *do* often have to put up with minor annoyances. People snatching up their hits instead of misses, measuring from the center or rear of their vehicles instead of the front, then not keeping consistency, eyeballing range, counting too many models under template weapons, claiming cover where none is available, denying cover when it is truly available, loose measurement, extra partial inches, accidentally bumping models into more favorable positions, doing the same to terrain, making up rules, forgetting their own rules, trying to shoot units more than once in a shooting phase....

Subjected to all this on a regular basis, I started calling minute things. Remember page numbers, quoting them, having to rules lawyer to keep people from cheating, even at the little things. These days, I realize that people who do that stuff generally don't have a bat's chance in hell of winning anyway, so I let them do it anyway unless it is egregious. Drinking raises my tolerance for having to deal with those people.

Situation: Opponent is trying to line up an assault against a unit of mine, and thinks he is about 13" away. During his movement, he does the "Measure 6", then remove the tape measure and put models roughly where the 6" mark was" trick to gain some extra distance.

Sober Dash: Dude, put your model back. That's a hell of a lot more than 6". Put your tape measure on the table, LEAVE IT THERE, and move the model up as far as you like, but not beyond the 6".
Drinking Dash: Phew! Those guys are really moving out EXTRA far this turn aren't they? I bet they smell my rum and are trying to poach it. STAY AWAY I SAY!

Situation: Opponent deep-strikes a drop pod with a dreadnought inside it next to a conga line of wyches and prepares to heavy flamer them. He places the template haphazardly, not at the flamer barrel, and doesn't hit as much of the squad as possible because he's trying to also peg their vehicle. He says, "Looks like I have 7 wyches and their raider."

Sober Dash: You mind if I double-check?
Drinking Dash: Coolio, I'll take your word for it.

Situation: Opponent is deep-striking a unit onto the table (or rolling a blast weapon, whatever), and they miss, and scatter 2d6. From eyeballing it and being pretty damned good with depth perception, I can see that the angle is going to scatter into a unit. When my opponent measures out the scatter over his unit, the direction of the tape measure is conveniently not identical to the scatter die, such that he scatters just to the side of the unit he would have mishapped on.

Sober Dash: Uh...that's not where they go. Here, let me help you. Extend your tape measure over the scatter die. Now I'm going to make my perpendicular to your own tape measure and cross your model. And finally, you take your tape measure and draw it perpendicular to mine over your model so that you are moving in the exact correct direction.
Drinking Dash: Phew, you got lucky that time. You know, it helps if you roll the scatter die by the unit - requires a lot less direction and measuring, and I'm all about easy!

I could go on and on. I've run into a *LOT* of this.

Drinking makes it easier for me to tolerate bullgak.

I think I can relate it to the simpsons. the episode Homer gets trashed at his own party and makes a complete jerk out of him self (looking down the revs wifes blouse) but the next day he remembers him self in a top hat drinking martinis being witty. ur perception of yourself drunk is not always other peoples perception of your self. It seams if you get trashed at a tourny you care about how your games go but have no consideration for how the other guys game goes.

Drinking at a tourny? Not a good idea. There may be kids there. Playing at home with adults...go crazy. I think anyone willing to play me and have fun and you like to drink beer while you play? I have no problem with that.

Dashofpepper wrote:Subjected to all this on a regular basis, I started calling minute things. Remember page numbers, quoting them, having to rules lawyer to keep people from cheating, even at the little things. These days, I realize that people who do that stuff generally don't have a bat's chance in hell of winning anyway, so I let them do it anyway unless it is egregious. Drinking raises my tolerance for having to deal with those people.
snip all the examples
Drinking makes it easier for me to tolerate bullgak.

Two things:
1) You might be in the wrong hobby if you need to get sauced to enjoy it or to ignore the bad parts.
2) You might have a drinking problem if you need to drink in order to make yourself more socially acceptable to other people.

If people are pulling gak, they should be reported to the TO and called out on it. Whether you drink or not, covering it up and moving on just subjects other players to the same behavior.

Grimgob wrote:I think I can relate it to the simpsons. the episode Homer gets trashed at his own party and makes a complete jerk out of him self (looking down the revs wifes blouse) but the next day he remembers him self in a top hat drinking martinis being witty. ur perception of yourself drunk is not always other peoples perception of your self. It seams if you get trashed at a tourny you care about how your games go but have no consideration for how the other guys game goes.

As stated above, this is not true for everyone. Getting so hammered you treat people rudely, or act like a tool, is just as bad as simply being rude or being a tool. In fact, I wonder if it's not worse to be a tool/rude WITHOUT any boozey influence.

Either way, hating on people for consuming a thousands-year-old beverage that is very cultural and social to a lot of people (and not rude, jerky, or with intent to get drunk in mind) is a little misplaced and silly. Hating on people for acting like tools is ... well, to be expected. Just hate on them for being tools, not ... being drunk; it's that they are acting like douchecanoes which is the problem, not why.

I don't mind drinking while playing; I'll often buy my opponent a beer (even when it's horribly overpriced hotel beer). It's not only social, it's also a good muscle relaxant (which is a good thing, after hours of standing hunched over a gaming table). Obvious drunks, though, annoy me.

MVBrandt wrote:Either way, hating on people for consuming a thousands-year-old beverage that is very cultural and social to a lot of people (and not rude, jerky, or with intent to get drunk in mind) is a little misplaced and silly. Hating on people for acting like tools is ... well, to be expected. Just hate on them for being tools, not ... being drunk; it's that they are acting like douchecanoes which is the problem, not why.

Again, there is a distinction to be made. Simply drinking responsibly isn't going to annoy most people, and I don't see many people in this thread (or the other) complaining about social drinking during gameplay (in an appropriate venue). Drinking until you're hammered will annoy more people.

(And let's not reach back into history for a justification; there are a lot of historically-supported practices that aren't appropriate in modern society, including the consumption of various things, personal hygiene, and public copulation.)

I think I'm with MVBrandt here, in that alcohol is humanity's oldest friend, and you don't abandon your friends.

That said, one or two beers to get a buzz on, is okay, in my opinion. Having a pitcher of Long Island next to you, and going until you swerve in place, will earn you displeasure. If you are going to drink and game, you need to make damn sure you are being an adult about it.

MVBrandt wrote:As stated above, this is not true for everyone. Getting so hammered you treat people rudely, or act like a tool, is just as bad as simply being rude or being a tool. In fact, I wonder if it's not worse to be a tool/rude WITHOUT any boozey influence.

Acting like a tool is beside the point. People don't want to be around someone who's trashed and sloppy.

That's what we're talking about. No one is saying alcohol should be outlawed at events. They're saying, as the very informal poll points out, that people should just keep themselves under control.

Grimgob wrote:I think I can relate it to the simpsons. the episode Homer gets trashed at his own party and makes a complete jerk out of him self (looking down the revs wifes blouse) but the next day he remembers him self in a top hat drinking martinis being witty.

That was a very funny episode.

During a tournament, no.

After the tournament, first round is on me.

At your home, knock yourself out.

At my home, a responisble amount because your drunk ass isn't crashing at my place or driving home.

I'm on the boat of drinking is fine (I regularly do it at events that allow it) but that sloshy isn't. Sloshy annoys the hell out of me in the wrong environment and it can make others uncomfortable.

Sidenote I don't like the options cause it doesn't have a few drinks is cool but sloshy is stupid options

I figured that it was implied in the second option, Hulk. I echo your sentiments exactly.

Monster rain is correct. I was trying to be informal (as not to start any flames) but sloshy is stupid is implied in the secon option. (If MODs want to add that to clairify please do).

There is a time and a place.

Last month's 'Ard Boyz - No. too many kids, inside a store.

WaaaghPaca a few months back. Oh yeah. If you'd stick your head out the gaming room, you could see the bartenders. Being Wisconsin it's encouraged to drink, people were dropping pints down before dice started to roll at 9am. That being said I waited until after first round to start, and I bought every opponent a drink who wanted one expcet the last round on sunday. I had to to drive.

Being drunk & being annoying two separate items. I think we can all agree that people at tournaments need to act in the appropriate manner.

That being said as long as you are acting appropriatly, feel free to drink as much as you want.

I think what a lot of people aren't getting is that some people, simply being around a visibly intoxicated person is somewhat annoying.

I say visibly intoxicated because usually for a person to really tell that you're drunk, you have to be doing something to let them know.

Warhammer gets infinitely more fun with booze involved.....

As long as your not one of "those drunk guys" its usually just find....

Monster, we're in violent agreement (Believe it or not). The point is that I think some people will see a fella drinking, and ASSUME he's getting drunk, and that's to be avoided ...

Getting sloshy IS a douchey thing to do at a tournament, just like ... being a douche, or being a douche on a forum, or whatever really. Jerk is jerk, inconsiderate is inconsiderate. Hence, again, cooler post title would be "is it cool to be uncool at a tournament?" I think we all kinda agree that getting super uncool levels of drunk is ... uncool.

The tautological poll is tautological!

Drinking DURING the game, at a tourney, it's a bit much...

EDIT:
After, sure!

I always have a few beers while playing 40K. i thought it was required, how else am I going to deal with casualties and not break down in tears.

Grimgob wrote:I think I can relate it to the simpsons. the episode Homer gets trashed at his own party and makes a complete jerk out of him self (looking down the revs wifes blouse) but the next day he remembers him self in a top hat drinking martinis being witty. ur perception of yourself drunk is not always other peoples perception of your self. It seams if you get trashed at a tourny you care about how your games go but have no consideration for how the other guys game goes.

This is true for the most part, though generally, I only don't remember being an jerk when I don't remember ANYTHING, so I can usually tell by virtue of negative acknowledgment. Little awkward when I black out and I'm not though, I get lots of laughs from people as I'm apologizing for stuff I didn't end up doing.

Honestly though, like Dash, when I drink I usually pull the competitive stick from my ass. It's usually better for everyone if I am at least half past buzzed when I play.

Whatever floats your boat. Have a drink, I might do the same.

Of course, judgment centers of the brain are affected way before motor skills and speech centers. You'll make mistakes while drinking way before the effects of said alcohol are noticeable in other areas.

Didn't there use to be a guy who showed up every year at the Baltimore GT, would get sloshed, and had to be ambulanced out?

@Dash It's players like those that have made me stop playing. Well, that and the plethora of gimmick armies out there. The two seem to go hand in hand.

I will admit last friendly game I played in my mates garage did have a player that was rather functional until the end. He was playing orks so it was kind of fitting... He quit. Granted it was 1 AM, and he'd been drinking since 11 , and his Warboss just got a jolly rogering from my Ironclad... Oh, and when I say 11 I mean A.M.

IMO, one or two is fine provided they are kept well clear of the miniatures, I can't say I'm keen on having my paintwork/models chipped by beer bottles, not to mention having a model stinking of beer :/. People who can't stand properly are best kept away from expensive models that have taken time to paint up etc.

I would agree that drinking at sanctioned tournaments unless one is an alcoholic an can hide it well should probably be avoided. Other than a couple beers or so.


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Highlights are hell when one has the DT's.

MVBrandt wrote:Monster, we're in violent agreement (Believe it or not). The point is that I think some people will see a fella drinking, and ASSUME he's getting drunk, and that's to be avoided ...

Getting sloshy IS a douchey thing to do at a tournament, just like ... being a douche, or being a douche on a forum, or whatever really. Jerk is jerk, inconsiderate is inconsiderate. Hence, again, cooler post title would be "is it cool to be uncool at a tournament?" I think we all kinda agree that getting super uncool levels of drunk is ... uncool.

The tautological poll is tautological!

Speaking as someone who happily drinks before, during, and after games, I have to disagree. It's not just about being a douche, as that is self-evident.

I think there's a point to be legitimately made here about drunkenness in particular, and how it can impact events and opponents. I think it's kind of timely, as well, what with bigger events now having drinking a bit more emphasized or prominent (like with the 40k-themed cocktails at Adepticon the last couple of years, etc.).

Probably 90%+ of drinking gamers have their drinking under control and appropriate, but the very nature of the activity is such that it impairs our own ability to judge when we are no longer within acceptable boundaries of behavior. Even if I am friendly and relaxed, it can be less than fun for my opponent if I am unfocused, distracted or silly, or particularly loud, or whatever. Some folks are more or less accepting and happy with this, which is important to bear in mind when I'm at a public event, and my opponent is paired against me by the structure and doesn't really have the choice to wait until I'm sober, or the option to just not play against me (at least not without negative repercussions for me or him).

There's also the factor of the occasional guy using a big event as kind of an excuse to cut loose and get genuinely trashed, which can be a real problem. IIRC one of the guys at the ETC last year or the year before was drunk enough that he actually took a header through a table, smashing his own and his opponent's armies! While that kind of thing is certainly very rare, it's the kind of thing we should be aware of and look out for if one of our gaming buddies really seems to be significantly impaired.

Again, while I think the vast majority of guys are no problem, the nature of drinking means it's difficult for me to judge if and when I'm starting to cross the line. So it's worth a friendly reminder that we should probably err on the side of caution before and during game rounds.

IIRC every single GT tournament in my area (Texas) has a bar at the venue.... Mostly its beer and wine (who the feth drinks wine at these things) and one or two has the hard stuff like vodka and redbull and other spirits...

I have yet to encounter a single problem with this (belligerence), and if anything its great for sportsmanship votes when you buy your opponent a beer after the game (assuming they drink).

I hope you dont all think I'm a prude. I drink (I love brown ales and Irish whisky), I just dont like to hang around people who are visibly drunk @ inapropriate times. If you get that way Its not always easy to comunicate with that person, which in this game of reaching a social middle ground of understanding between each other would make me have a bad time.

Mannahnin wrote:Probably 90%+ of drinking gamers have their drinking under control and appropriate, but the very nature of the activity is such that it impairs our own ability to judge when we are no longer within acceptable boundaries of behavior. Even if I am friendly and relaxed, it can be less than fun for my opponent if I am unfocused, distracted or silly, or particularly loud, or whatever. Some folks are more or less accepting and happy with this, which is important to bear in mind when I'm at a public event, and my opponent is paired against me by the structure and doesn't really have the choice to wait until I'm sober, or the option to just not play against me (at least not without negative repercussions for me or him).

I'm going to use you as an example, Mannahnin; I trust you won't mind.

At Adepticon this year, on Saturday night (post-Team Tournament), I was hanging out with Yakface, Mannahnin, and Lorek. Mannahnin was 2-and-a-half sheets to the wind, the rest of us were mildly buzzed, and we were having a great time just talking. Absolutely the right time and place.

Had I instead been playing a tournament game against Mannahnin in exactly that same condition, I would have been annoyed.

No problem, Janthkin.

I had had a long day, was definitely in a mood to cut loose a bit at the end of the Team event, and (in part thanks to friends in Da Boyz being nearby) had a few shots during the award ceremony. I definitely got more drunk than usual even for after hours that night, and would never want to be nearly that intoxicated during a game. Usually 1-2 beers is the max I want while trying to play a competitive game.

ShivanAngel wrote:IIRC every single GT tournament in my area (Texas) has a bar at the venue.... Mostly its beer and wine (who the feth drinks wine at these things) and one or two has the hard stuff like vodka and redbull and other spirits...

I know a few guys in the Northeast who prefer wine and mixed drinks to beer. One of the Warmongers, in NYC, is famous for drunkenness with a wine bottle in hand on Saturday night at big events. One of the other Warmongers has an awesome Romanian wife, and regularly brings Romanian moonshine (Tsuica) to events. I, inspired, started bringing my father-in-law's Bulgarian homebrew, Rakia, to events.

Especially at the Independent events in the East, drinking is definitely a side-event. My WHFB club, the Lost Legion, and the 'mongers had a Friday night club challenge at one event, where five of us on each side lined up on five adjacent tables. We did a line chug to start, with the team that won automatically winning first turn (that was us). Then before each of your own player turns you had to toast your opponent and have a drink. If you did, you got a re-roll during that game turn. If you forgot, your opponent got one. So I'm definitely on the pro-drinking side. That said, I also have a couple of times found myself a little tipsier than I wanted to be, say in game three on Saturday, and I realize that I should take care when it comes to both my ability to play and to not being at risk of spilling a beer on a table or anything.

Thank you. My point exactly Janthkin. a beer or four is great during games (multiple games if ur gunna drink four) as long as ur cool. I've ran into self proclaimed drunk beligerent persons at GTs before and it was awkward.

I tourneys I don't think there should be any drinking...but friendly games or playing at my/a friend's house is ok

I'd rather avoid the "drunken a-hole" situation altogether and have booze not allowed


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kronk wrote:During a tournament, no.

After the tournament, first round is on me.

At your home, knock yourself out.

At my home, a responisble amount because your drunk ass isn't crashing at my place or driving home.

^^^AGREED

I feel drinking is ok at GTs and I echo that it should be in moderation.

Me personally would not drink during games because I would want to not allow any lapse decisions into my game.

After games are done then yes. Hit it hard. Work hard, Play hard

I don't drink. Let me say that right off. Also I don't care if you drink. However,I don't like the smell of most types of liquor and I would be very put off if I had to play a person who smelled like liquor or whose breath smelled like liquor. Would I still play them? Yes. Would I enjoy it? No. If you want to have a drink do so on your own time and please be aware of the odors you drag in (either externally or internally). Yes, I know that some liquors don't have odors and as long as you can function normally then good for you. Just be aware that alcohol is like smoking in that the smells can stay with you even after your done drinking/smoking.
I suppose this could also go under the hygene rules.

Grimgob wrote:Thank you. My point exactly Janthkin. a beer or four is great during games (multiple games if ur gunna drink four) as long as ur cool. I've ran into self proclaimed drunk beligerent persons at GTs before and it was awkward.

You don't need to be drunk to be belligerent or a jerk, nor does drinking turn someone into one. I've got to agree with Mike and the others on that point. People who are being rude/uncooked/other at tournaments are going to be without booze. Try to divorce alcohol and behavior. If someone is a.jerk, they are going to be a jerk, booze or not.

You can't entirely divorce alcohol from behavior, Dash.

Yes, it's the behavior which is the objectionable part, but if someone's excessive use of alcohol makes them harder to play a game with, and makes them unaware of the fact that they're no longer enjoyable to interact with, then it's worth taking a look at the drinking. If I have 1-2 beers during a game, I'm fine. If I have more, I'm going to start getting sloppy. It's a matter of knowing my limits, but of course, the more I drink the less aware I am.

It's mostly just a question of responsibility and moderation, really. The folks who are intolerant of drinking at all, and the problem drunks, are really the edge cases.

This thread isnt about being a jerk. Its about how people feel about their opponant drinking or level of drinking thats OK with you at Tournys (a lot of people seam to have an opinion on the subject). If you think its ok and ur opponant dosnt, in a social game is it socialy acceptable? On a side note; If it ruins the other persons game and you dont care you are being a jerk. They have every right to have as fun a time for their money as you do.

Here's to alcohol. The cause of, and solution too, all of life's problems.

A beer or 2 during the day is OK...unless your a cheap (and bad) drunk. In the evenings after an event, have a blast (don't be stupid and get an out of State DUI).

Mannahnin wrote:You can't entirely divorce alcohol from behavior

I absolutely agree. Drinking lowers inhibitions---and those whom get drunk from poor impulse control---are usually going to display even more grandiose impulse control issues when sloshed. For that type of person, that requires it to loosen up and 'be themselves'---the first drink quite literally is the one that gets them drunk.

I'd say... drinking in a tournament setting? Not "Serious drinking". Not even "Casual 3-4 beers drinking".

Drinking at a friends house? Warhammer drinking Games? Have a beer on a lunch break at a tournament? Sure. Just not when you PLAY the actual game.

Talking about 40k drinking games... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HE3ezRBXyZQ was a few days back

I always bring an ice chest and at least one 12 pack of shiner bock to every event (gt wise) I go to. I drink beer before round 1 starts and am drinking up until Saturday night. I use this time to drink with some of the people or online personalities I've finally met and just all around be social and hang out with fellow hobbyists and gamers. Sunday drinking depends on how well I did day 1 and also if I have to drive back or a friend is driving. I've always ended with a good sportsmanship.

I'll have to second what some have already said a couple of times. Drinking more works to get rid of your inhibitions. This is why people will have a couple of drinks before approaching a girl in a bar or a similar scenario. So drinking can make a timid person 10x more social but on the other hand can make a jack--s 10x more of a jack--s. Every person I've personally met that doesn't drink because they get too mean when they do are generally pretty mean spirited or petty people sober. Drinking is neither bad nor good. How much you drink, how you act when you drink and what environment your in while drinking is what can make it a bad or a good thing.

I think the poll should have been more specific too.
Drinking at FLGS on a Saturday local tournament. Absolutely not! Kids may show up its a family friendly environment and most stores of this type don't have a license to even have people drinking in them anyway. (this varies from state to state and country) Now several of these Saturday events we've all headed out to a pub and got a pizza and a couple of pitchers of beer for lunch and then went back for game 2 and 3.

Drinking at a GT where planes or long drives are involved and your average age is 20-40. I think it should not only be allowed but should be there. I may sound like an alcoholic but I would be less inclined to drive 6 hours if I can't even drink at the event. I mostly however just show up to GT's to show off my army and look at all the other armies, socialize and try and steal best painted.

I think for the folks that think drinking should be banned or are offended by playing a buzzed player should probably not go to an event where it is allowed. The exact same if you don't like the scoring system. If you don't like how a tournament is being scored and you go and then bitch about it afterward you probably should have found another tournament to go to or just accepted that that isn't how you would have done it and play it out. Its hardly fair for someone to have a beer or two at an event when your allowed to drink and then you be annoyed or dock them in sports for what is allowed. I'm sure there are lots of events where drinking isn't allowed. Now as far as your Larger events I think it will always be allowed. Man has socially bonded over booze and other effects for thousands of years and this isn't going to change anytime soon.

All that being said no you shouldn't get so hammered you can't stand up straight or even be able to make a proper sentence. But guess what? A person that was that sloshed in a bar (where people go to drink) would annoy me or ruin my buzz. So I think that is kind of stating the obvious.

I fall on the "I'll have a couple of beers over the day" end of things. Generally, 1 pint every two to three hours is enough. If I want to go to a convention and drink more than that, I won't play, so that no one is forced to interact with me when I am intoxicated.

I wouldn't be particularly irritated by a jolly drunk though.

i say if you're gonna drink a beer or two during a game with me... you'd better offer me one. not kidding. i would be more offended if you had a cooler of suddy goodness, and didnt offer me one.

as for drunks, i dont deal with drunks in bars, much less around my fancy breakable miniatures. besides, i came to play warhammer, not to drink.

more realistically, ive never seen anyone play warhammer and drink, but as long as real youngins arent present, i'd be fine with it. i just dont like setting the bad example. i know how parents can be. you dont even have to talk to a whipper snapper and mama bear can go 0-grizzly in 3 seconds for just smelling it on you. i wouldnt take the chance.

but form private apocalypse games, my friends and i party and wargame. not much more fun than that.

There are only three tournies in my state where drinking (alcohol) is allowed, and my club runs one of them (but our club is located in a licenced club, so we can drink during club meets, too), and they have not had any issues with excessive consumption.

I don't see a problem with it, unless drinking itself is a problem for those involved.

Those who do drink at our club tourney tend to already be staying locally (walking distance) anyway, so driving is not an issue.

Gaming in europe is different in America by that account.

I'd say yeah, if people could handle thier drinks like they do over there. Unfortunately, you always have a standard issue D bag that is the 30 year old kid that can't handle themselves, sober, let alone put a drink or two in them.

Between You, Me, and that Door, the way in which people drink has 100% the issue in how they will behave.

If they know how to drink, and arn't just drinking like a kid, then yeah, you can have some really good times.

If they drink like a college fratboy and get pissing, bark at the moon drunk, forget it.

I'm all for it in the right crowd, then again, I learned how to drink in the right setting. The ones that taught me wouldn't tolerate drinking to be a D bag.

You get blackballed by these types, you get excommunicated.


Whats the old saying? "Theres a time and a place..."? Yeah, you get !@#$'d in the wrong crowd, and you might as well not show your face at another game.

Im by no means a prude and enjoy a beer and a shot like any other.

However a T.O. that allows drinking at a tournament they host where they accept registrations from kids under the age of 18 isnt making a wise choice.

Creating a situation that might possibly expose a child to a drinker is pretty darn irresponsable.

I take my son with me to many tournaments and i would be pretty pissed if my son was at a table with a guy who was drinking.

If you want to do a tournament or a side event, such as Mikes "wiskey challenge" that allows drinking.. hey thats cool, however dont allow under aged players.

Interesting that 5% (or 7 people) don't like the idea of drinking + gaming, among which are people who have been the most vocal about the issue. =p

If you are at a GT, and your opponent breaks out some booze, and offers you one....accept it. Or don't. But if you feel indignation or morally outraged that they're about to consume alcohol in your holy presence, get over yourself. You're not special, and your opinion is worth even less than everyone elses' because you want to force YOUR views onto other people. They're not forcing you to drink. You have a 6x4 table between you. You won't even smell it unless they throw it at you across the table. And if slurred speech or hard to understand language is your gripe.....try TRAVELING. People from North Carolina can't understand what people from New York are saying, even without booze. People in California have words that people in Loiusiana have never even heard of. And around and around it goes.

If being around adults engaging in adult behavior is too much to handle, then retract from adult life back to privacy.

I liken this to people who get offended when an Ork player shouts "WAAAUGH!" during a tournament, because it startled them, or hurt their ears, or distracted them. And they say, "Could you not do that again please?" We're role-playing WARHAMMER, pretending to be GENERALS conquering EVIL ALIENS, and someone got offended that someone else let out a warcry?

Bloody bones of baby Gandalf, some people are dysfunctional.

I have no problems with drinking during friendly games or friendly tournaments. Now if I were at a large event and someone was drinking heavily and screwing around being a TFG, then yea, I would have an issue.

Mostly its about the environment and the type of people I would be gaming against. I drink during many games. But I don't at tourneys.

Dash, I don't think you really need to be calling people names.

There was a poll, people gave their opinions. No one insulted you so it seems that calling others "dysfunctional" is inappropriate.

Tipsy gamers are poor gamers. That being said, alcohol and dice don't mix.

Monster Rain wrote:Dash, I don't think you really need to be calling people names.

There was a poll, people gave their opinions. No one insulted you so it seems that calling others "dysfunctional" is inappropriate.

Agreed. Overall the thread seems like it is fairly mellow atm. I am not shy about drinking in appropriate venues. However, as others have stated, a GT with children present may not be the best place for it. A GT that encourages drinking is another matter entirely... Either accept that people will be drinking (but hopefully not getting drunk) or vote with your feet.

Dashofpepper wrote:Interesting that 5% (or 7 people) don't like the idea of drinking + gaming, among which are people who have been the most vocal about the issue. =p

If you are at a GT, and your opponent breaks out some booze, and offers you one....accept it. Or don't. But if you feel indignation or morally outraged that they're about to consume alcohol in your holy presence, get over yourself. You're not special, and your opinion is worth even less than everyone elses' because you want to force YOUR views onto other people. They're not forcing you to drink. You have a 6x4 table between you. You won't even smell it unless they throw it at you across the table. And if slurred speech or hard to understand language is your gripe.....try TRAVELING. People from North Carolina can't understand what people from New York are saying, even without booze. People in California have words that people in Loiusiana have never even heard of. And around and around it goes.

If being around adults engaging in adult behavior is too much to handle, then retract from adult life back to privacy.

I liken this to people who get offended when an Ork player shouts "WAAAUGH!" during a tournament, because it startled them, or hurt their ears, or distracted them. And they say, "Could you not do that again please?" We're role-playing WARHAMMER, pretending to be GENERALS conquering EVIL ALIENS, and someone got offended that someone else let out a warcry?

Bloody bones of baby Gandalf, some people are dysfunctional.

yes but 55% of people dont mind if you drink just not if your drunk (I'm in this catagory). Getting trashed in public is not adult behavior like someone mentioned before. every ones opinion is valid (even the 90% you dont care about) thats what makes this a great community. you seam to be in the small vocal few (like the people who dont want you to drink at all) defending binge drinking at events and binge drinking at events is not cool. Apperantly the community agrees (please dont be offended that people disagree with you it happens). You might not agree that its binge drinking but here is the definition for you "Binge drinking is the modern epithet for drinking alcoholic beverages with the primary intention of becoming drunk within a short period of time.[1] It is a kind of purposeful drinking style that is popular in several countries worldwide, and overlaps somewhat with social drinking since it is often done in groups. The exact degree of intoxication, however, varies between and within various cultures that engage in this practice".On a side note people can't always help were they are from but everyone can use discression when neccesary.

Oh and from me and Ice Cube "We Si Fi Li Ni"
edited to include California slang

If a tournament is held in a drinking venue like a pub, it would be silly to prohibit drinking.

Most tournaments are held in non-drinking venues. In such cases it is the TO's decision whether players are allowed to bring in their own booze.

People shouldn't get uptight if drinking is not allowed in such circumstances. There isn't a fundamental right to drink.

I haven't felt a desire to drink during tournament games, though I will happily drink during social gaming. If I were facing someone drinking my attitude would depend on their behaviour.

Dashofpepper wrote:People from North Carolina can't understand what people from New York are saying, even without booze. People in California have words that people in Loiusiana have never even heard of. And around and around it goes.

Sup bra, you don't like talk about you're ballin in your scraper, goin stupid with casper, or like, just chillaxin with some stunners?

Like, no way. Bay is sinchy man.


I have hyphee to thank for a lot of things.

Dashofpepper wrote:Morning drinking is a little much.

My personal least favorite are people who drink the night before, or on Saturday night - such that they are hung over and in a bad mood Saturday or Sunday morning for gaming. People who are hung over are usually the least fun to play against.

I usually start drinking in the afternoon on Saturday, around game 3 after lunch (presuming there are two morning rounds). By the time the first day ends I've got a heady buzz going on, and I stop drinking, go to dinner, drink water, clear my head and am fresh for the next morning. Personally, I rarely drink on Sundays for two day events because of the travel time involved getting back home.

Some people have mentioned that drinking can make you friendlier. There's a lateral statement that holds true as well. Drinking can also raise your douche tolerance. I've seen some raging arguments at GTs. Shouting, yelling, TO interventions....I've never had to sit through any of that myself and am grateful. I *do* often have to put up with minor annoyances. People snatching up their hits instead of misses, measuring from the center or rear of their vehicles instead of the front, then not keeping consistency, eyeballing range, counting too many models under template weapons, claiming cover where none is available, denying cover when it is truly available, loose measurement, extra partial inches, accidentally bumping models into more favorable positions, doing the same to terrain, making up rules, forgetting their own rules, trying to shoot units more than once in a shooting phase....

Subjected to all this on a regular basis, I started calling minute things. Remember page numbers, quoting them, having to rules lawyer to keep people from cheating, even at the little things. These days, I realize that people who do that stuff generally don't have a bat's chance in hell of winning anyway, so I let them do it anyway unless it is egregious. Drinking raises my tolerance for having to deal with those people.

Situation: Opponent is trying to line up an assault against a unit of mine, and thinks he is about 13" away. During his movement, he does the "Measure 6", then remove the tape measure and put models roughly where the 6" mark was" trick to gain some extra distance.

Sober Dash: Dude, put your model back. That's a hell of a lot more than 6". Put your tape measure on the table, LEAVE IT THERE, and move the model up as far as you like, but not beyond the 6".
Drinking Dash: Phew! Those guys are really moving out EXTRA far this turn aren't they? I bet they smell my rum and are trying to poach it. STAY AWAY I SAY!

Situation: Opponent deep-strikes a drop pod with a dreadnought inside it next to a conga line of wyches and prepares to heavy flamer them. He places the template haphazardly, not at the flamer barrel, and doesn't hit as much of the squad as possible because he's trying to also peg their vehicle. He says, "Looks like I have 7 wyches and their raider."

Sober Dash: You mind if I double-check?
Drinking Dash: Coolio, I'll take your word for it.

Situation: Opponent is deep-striking a unit onto the table (or rolling a blast weapon, whatever), and they miss, and scatter 2d6. From eyeballing it and being pretty damned good with depth perception, I can see that the angle is going to scatter into a unit. When my opponent measures out the scatter over his unit, the direction of the tape measure is conveniently not identical to the scatter die, such that he scatters just to the side of the unit he would have mishapped on.

Sober Dash: Uh...that's not where they go. Here, let me help you. Extend your tape measure over the scatter die. Now I'm going to make my perpendicular to your own tape measure and cross your model. And finally, you take your tape measure and draw it perpendicular to mine over your model so that you are moving in the exact correct direction.
Drinking Dash: Phew, you got lucky that time. You know, it helps if you roll the scatter die by the unit - requires a lot less direction and measuring, and I'm all about easy!

I could go on and on. I've run into a *LOT* of this.

Drinking makes it easier for me to tolerate bullgak.

I finally have a reason to agree with DoP.

My douche-tolerance goes through the roof when I boozehammer. Why? Because I'm buzzing. So whatever TFG is busy buzzing off about... doesn't even get through.

"Sure. Go for it dude."

Gaming. Drinking...sounds win to me!!! I lsoe oh well I am drunk and having a blast. and helps to ignore the a-holes

A couple of relaxed dirnsk over a game wouldn't worry me at all.


Could be a fun drinking game though! Every time you lose a model, take a shot.

If you don't like drinking and gaming....never...under ANY circumstance....no matter what....attend the Kalm before the Waagh in Huntsville! It's held in a bar.....last year one of the scenario's required you place a beer bottle on the table as an objective. Guess what - ever one has a blast there - drinkers and non-drinkers, drunks and social drinkers. I've personally been all of those there.

I personally would rather play someone who's sober or socially drinking in a tourney.

I personally have only over done it at tourneys twice. Once was the above Kalm a few years back - which was the last time I've been totally sh*t faced. I had to be a pain for my opponents to play against. The other was at the Adepticon champs in the last round (I had's me some Mr. Jack to numb the pain of my poor showing). I played someone who I consider a buddy and was a might tipsy at the start of the game. I felt bad about it and hope I didn't irritate him too much - he's a good guy and one of the best painters in the game.

At the end of the day, we own half the social contract in the game - and should try not to be TFG.....

Kilkrazy wrote:

Most tournaments are held in non-drinking venues. In such cases it is the TO's decision whether players are allowed to bring in their own booze.

Oh? What tournaments are those? Seems to me that most major events these days have adult beverages associated with them. I'm at the Alamo GT right now; I forgot my flask in the hotel room and had two beers today (Mississippi Mudslides) and draft beers were $1.00. The convention center has an attached bar; they even brought in a "Beer Goddess" cheerleader from the Flying Saucer to bring drinks to gamers.

I see more venues with drinking attached than not.

@Monster Rain: I didn't call anyone names. I labeled a group of people. Dysfunctional. People across ALL walks of life who wish to enforce their personal beliefs on other people are dysfunctional. People who believe that gamers without fully painted armies aren't good enough to play against them are dysfunctional. People who believe that anyone who doesn't share their faith in a particular religion should die are dysfunctional. People who believe that gamers who are indulging in a drink should have the cops called on them, or that shouldn't be gaming....are dysfunctional.

I have a problem with ANYONE who wishes to FORCE someone else to conform to their own personal beliefs. Mind your own damned business, live and let live, and all that jazz.

Dash, please stop trying to pick a fight. Everyone in this thread who disagrees with you has been civil about it.

The person in the other thread who talked about calling the cops was talking from a position of dealing with an unpleasant drunk, and he later modified his comments. When you keep attempting to paint people who have different preferences in this way, it doesn't make your own position look good.

Remember that in a tournament you have very limited options when it comes to your opponents. If I voluntarily put myself in a state of intoxication where some folks find me less enjoyable to interact with, that's as much on me as it is on them.

Mannahnin summed it up better. You can delete this.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmedhealth/PMH0001940/

Actually, leave it. I think some people should read this link.

This thread is going downhill... :(

Can't we all just abide by the Flint Tropics[b] only rule, “Everybody love everybody“

Gotta love dat semi pro

I drink at my friends house and play 40k, I drink at my house and play 40k. I don't think at a game store it'd be wise.

At game stores (at least in the US) it's generally not an option. The store generally doesn't/can't allow it. At local clubs it's fair game. The Dorka Morka club in the Boston area plays at a fraternal association hall, and they have a full bar downstairs from the gaming room.

Mostly this is about big tournaments/GTs. The kind you go away for the weekend to attend. A lot of us enjoy these as mini-vacations as well, and enjoy some drinking during them.

Mannahnin, I'm truly not trying to pick fights. I get just as upset when people write, "I refuse to game against people who aren't fielding a fully painted army."

I also have no issue with people who don't want to play against people who are staggering drunk. Its the "Drinking doesn't belong in wargaming and shouldn't be allowed" crowed I have a problem with.

Dashofpepper wrote:I also have no issue with people who don't want to play against people who are staggering drunk. Its the "Drinking doesn't belong in wargaming and shouldn't be allowed" crowed I have a problem with.

It is hard for some people to differentiate the mutually exclusive casual drinking and getting drunk off their arse crowds.

Drinking is bad period in their eyes.

Perhaps their experience with alcohol is what drives them down that path. Alcoholic parents, drunk driving incidents, alcohol related violence, ect.. Some just don't want to hear the argument for casual drinking because they cannot separate those who do it for leisure and those who abuse it.

That is far too nuanced an opinion to have on the internet WarOne.

Monster Rain wrote:That is far too nuanced an opinion to have on the internet WarOne.

It's the grimdark black and dullshine gold of the forum colors that drives me to be so intellectual here.

Dashofpepper wrote:

Kilkrazy wrote:

Most tournaments are held in non-drinking venues. In such cases it is the TO's decision whether players are allowed to bring in their own booze.

Oh? What tournaments are those?

All the ones that aren't actually held in bars and pubs.

Drinking can be "attached" practically anywhere by opening a bar next door, for example, or holding the event in a hotel which also has a bar. It doesn't mean it is standard behaviour to drink over the game table all the time everywhere.

I like gaminking as much as the next guy. The default state is sober, though. I don't find it unacceptable for there to be non-drinking venues.

In an effort to promote drinking at tournaments, yesterday I went around and bought beer for a bunch of people who were drinking soda. After asking if I could buy them a beer of course. Only one person declined. And there's a 9 year old kid here stomping tail, and I didn't offer to him either.

I don't mind. If they're starting to get visibly drunk, maybe that's overstepping the line, but at tournaments, at least it's a tactical advantage

Dashofpepper wrote:In an effort to promote drinking at tournaments, yesterday I went around and bought beer for a bunch of people who were drinking soda. After asking if I could buy them a beer of course. Only one person declined. And there's a 9 year old kid here stomping tail, and I didn't offer to him either.

People choose Not to drink for varying reasons.. most, we would not be aware of without knowing them on a very personal basis. Health, alcholism, past history or the sitiation there in will determine a persons willingness to partake in activities such as Drinking.

Seeking out people at a social occasion such as a back yard BBQ, wedding or a Gaming tournament, ect. who are visably "not drinking" to offer them alchohol to promote your "right to drink" frankly is the act of an immature individual.

Its a shame those individuals werent offered the same respect that you expect from people who are intolerant of drinkers. Its a shame those kids and there parents at the venue werent given the same respect as well. Who knows ... some of those adults not drinking may have been doing so because kids were there.

The only problems are legal...

Having a bar, or source of drinks, means no minors. I know a lot of kids here like to play at tourneys, and that would mean wrist bands and a liquor license... It's a bit of a nightmare really... Underage kids will find someone to but for them, and then you have a plain old fiasco...

So in my opinion, as much as I do love me beer and spirits, drinking should not be allowed at tournaments. Just meet your mates at a watering hole afterwards to discuss the days triumphs and failures over a pint.

Much more grown up than walking around asking people if they want a beer...

Dashofpepper wrote: People across ALL walks of life who wish to enforce their personal beliefs on other people are dysfunctional. People who believe that gamers without fully painted armies aren't good enough to play against them are dysfunctional. People who believe that anyone who doesn't share their faith in a particular religion should die are dysfunctional. People who believe that gamers who are indulging in a drink should have the cops called on them, or that shouldn't be gaming....are dysfunctional.

I have a problem with ANYONE who wishes to FORCE someone else to conform to their own personal beliefs. Mind your own damned business, live and let live, and all that jazz.

Dashofpepper wrote:In an effort to promote drinking at tournaments, yesterday I went around and bought beer for a bunch of people who were drinking soda. After asking if I could buy them a beer of course. Only one person declined. And there's a 9 year old kid here stomping tail, and I didn't offer to him either.

Dont these two statements seam hypocritical All that jazz indeed but I think like the nation in general, I think most people want a moderate middle ground in which both their views can exist without angry bickering (hello modern news Im reffering to u)

Edited for my bad spelling

It just seems unnecessary when you consider that 77% of the responses in this poll have been pro-some-form-of-drinking at tournaments.

Hostility when confronted about drinking and making excuses to drink are generally a bad sign.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Grimgob wrote:Dont these two statements seam hypocritacal

I won't say hypocritical, but I will say "contradictory."

It also is pretty telling that the posts became hostile after they started coming from an event he has admitted he is drinking at. I managed a bar for six years. More often then not the way people perceive themselves when drinking, and the way other people perceive them, are totally different. Hulksmash has already told you you where out of hand at an event. You might want to start asking other friends their honest opinion. I think there answers might surprise you.

The comparisons being made aren't ones I would associate with...clear thinking individuals.

"Ah...how'd your game go? Wanna beer?"
"Have you tried this Mississippi Mud stuff? Want to?"

There's nothing in there forcing anyone to drink. Grimgob, you're lurching at straws. I had three beers this weekend. Two yesterday and one today. In fact, my 5th round opponent was drunk, loud, and his drunken state made him just loud louder and more vigourously, not more ably. And have to pee often.

Slightly annoying? Maybe. But not justification for "Drinking shouldn't be allowed at tournaments."

And to the people (I'm on my phone still six hours from home) which think that "I offered to buy some people who weren't drinking a beer" and "I object to anyone forcing behavior on another person" are contradictory...you are off your rockers. Off the rocker and off the porch for the Guy who posted that offering g to buy someone a drink was disrespectful.

If I am happily enjoying my coke, what would make someone think that I would want a beer? If I wanted a beer I would be drinking one to begin with. Might just be me though. If you offered to buy me a round of what I was having, though, I would get your next round...

I think that drinking in moderation is fine... Getting tipsy... Not so much. Personally, if I am in a non-bar setting I allow a drink per hour. That way I can enjoy a drink if I wish without having to worry about getting too tipsy. YMMV

Gornall wrote:If I am happily enjoying my coke, what would make someone think that I would want a beer? If I wanted a beer I would be drinking one to begin with. Might just be me though. If you offered to buy me a round of what I was having, though, I would get your next round...

I think that drinking in moderation is fine... Getting tipsy... Not so much. Personally, if I am in a non-bar setting I allow a drink per hour. That way I can enjoy a drink if I wish without having to worry about getting too tipsy. YMMV

Or, how about a sample of what really happened.

I finish one of my games, and the player next to me has the most ridiculously beautifully converted and painted army. I've got pictures, they're being uploaded - but his army is literally a playable diorama of a Blood Angel vs. Tau fight. Farsight has his power sword carving into the Dreadnought's chest, plasma is spilling out...the conversion is his actual model for it...simply beyond words. He tells me how he did the plasma effects, and I ask him if I can buy him a beer for the privilege of having seen such a masterpiece.

The guy playing Necrons - I bought him a beer because he was brave enough to bring Necrons. An older guy in the corner hanging out by himself - I hadn't seen him socializing with anyone at the event, so I struck up a conversation with him and subsequently bought him a beer. The guy who won best painted....again, I have pictures. We talked for 10 minutes, he was walking me through his conversions and how he turned Grey Knights into Chaos Marines (he has a Dreadknight converted Soul Grinder that is absolutely beastly), and bought him a beer for taking the time to chat with me. I bought the TO a beer as a sign of appreciation for hosting the event.

Etc.

If someone offers you a beer, and you don't want one...all you have to say is, "Nah, I'm good but thanks!"

Some of the responses in here are pure bullgak. OMG DISRESPECTFUL! HOW DARE YOU! That attitude is ridiculous.

@Dash: Let me know next time you're down by Sarasota, if at all, so I can lose to you and you can buy me a drink.

More on topic, I've had drinks while playing with buddies, but not so much at the FLGS for a couple reasons:

1. I have to drive about 1/2 hour to get there and drive back so no drinking and driving for me! I suppose for a longer event/tourney I could because of how long I'd be there but that comes to issue number 2...

2. The owner of my FLGS likes to keep things kid friendly at least until 9PM, so drinking would be out then as well at least there.

Otherwise, if I didn't have to drive and such then I see no issue with drinking and generally socializing especially in a game like 40k as long as it isn't to the point of slow playing, distracting, and so on.

I prefer not to drink, and I don't like when people get drunk and play me, and act like total asshats, because I might be tempted to take my sock off, put my metal dreadnought in it, and deliver a beating

there was drinking at the Alamo GT , and I saw firsthand how alchohol made people loosen up and have alot more fun. I think being drunk would be a problem, but having a few beers is ok to me, especially after I saw the effects which had none that were negative.

PS: I havent had a sip of anything alchoholic in my entire life.

earth-star wrote:I prefer not to drink, and I don't like when people get drunk and play me, and act like total asshats, because I might be tempted to take my sock off, put my metal dreadnought in it, and deliver a beating

Hopefully this has been pointed out before in this thread, but if not here it is: there is a difference between having a drink or two and full out getting drunk. I don't think anyone here is advocating for anyone to drink to excess except maybe some followers of Slaanesh. Drinking while playing 40k != getting drunk while playing 40k.

Smitty0305 wrote:there was drinking at the Alamo GT , and I saw firsthand how alchohol made people loosen up and have alot more fun. I think being drunk would be a problem, but having a few beers is ok to me, especially after I saw the effects which had none that were negative.

PS: I havent had a sip of anything alchoholic in my entire life.

And this is a prime example of how this can be a good thing.

I think you should make a grog( Marine Corps thing, where you take hot sauce, booze, chocolate syrup, ketchup, mustard, pickles, milk, and sugar to make a drink to where you lose bets, ya gotta drink it up!) This should be a drink of choice for ork players! Squig juice!! I doubt they would get drunk, but more on the sick side haha.

I don't care what my opponent is doing, most interstate travellers are massively hung over and Alex Kin-Wilde, editor of Unseen Lerker Magazine once fell assleep for 20 minutes, behind his sunglasses before his opponent noticed (they were on the next table)

I have only ever drunk at 1 tourney, 2 beers at a small teams tourney.

I like to play at my best.

Dashofpepper wrote:The comparisons being made aren't ones I would associate with...clear thinking individuals.

"Ah...how'd your game go? Wanna beer?"
"Have you tried this Mississippi Mud stuff? Want to?"

There's nothing in there forcing anyone to drink. Grimgob, you're lurching at straws. I had three beers this weekend. Two yesterday and one today. In fact, my 5th round opponent was drunk, loud, and his drunken state made him just loud louder and more vigourously, not more ably. And have to pee often.

Slightly annoying? Maybe. But not justification for "Drinking shouldn't be allowed at tournaments."

And to the people (I'm on my phone still six hours from home) which think that "I offered to buy some people who weren't drinking a beer" and "I object to anyone forcing behavior on another person" are contradictory...you are off your rockers. Off the rocker and off the porch for the Guy who posted that offering g to buy someone a drink was disrespectful.

The majority of people here have stated time and again they don't have an issue with people drinking at tournaments, they just think it should be done in moderation. I don't think that's too much to ask. I love beer. Love love love it. And I'd love to have one while playing. But I'd still say we should all limit ourselves to 1-2 per hour so we don't get too saucy. I mean beyond getting drunk, you'd be off to the bathroom every five seconds if you had much more.

Your opponent wanting you to be moderately sober isn't asking much, he's asking for a compromise, not prohibition. You demanding that everyone accept your drinking and if they don't they're prudes/off their rockers/etc. doesn't help your case either. Not everyone has to enjoy drinking, but if they're willing to play with a guy drinking and only ask you keep it in moderation, you should probably take the olive branch and just drink in moderation.

I found the point someone made earlier of minors at events + drinking, and I think this is an interesting one. It could go one of two ways:

1) The parent shouldn't let their kid attend an event which advertises allowing alcohol/having an open bar
2) The TO shouldn't allow minors at an event he plans on having open drinking at the tables for

I love my beer, but I think I'd be a bit uncomfortable knocking it back while playing a minor I don't know. I think that social discomfort is my common sense telling me "this may not be an appropriate time to imbibe, wait until you're playing that lush Dash to catch back up".

I think it has already been mentioned, but some people have legitimate reasons to feel strongly about people drinking around them. Abusive parents/relationships, loved ones lost to DUI or Liver disease, and many others. However while I sympathize with them they should understand also that their issues are NOT my issues and we are in a social setting. If you feel that drinking in your presence is a problem then maybe YOU should do your best to avoid situations where drinking is allowed. Not expect people to abstain from something in a situation where it is allowed/encouraged simply because it makes you uncomfortable.

I intend to drink at Nova when it comes around in August, but just as others have stated I intend to keep it within reason. Someone going to far and being drunk/belligerent towards you, no matter the venue, is unacceptable. You should not be forced to have to deal with your opponent being that drunk, and should involve the TO in those cases. However being pissed the entire game because your opponent had the audacity to have a beer or two while playing you is just silly. If it is something you feel so strongly about, say something POLITELY to your opponent. Especially in the case of kids and setting examples for them. I would be more than happy to hold off during our game if you would rather me not in front of your child. Most people aside from the raging alchy would be fine with stopping over the course of your game given good reason. Just don't be surprised if they now have that same feeling of irritation towards you that you held for them if you simply think drinking is icky and ask them to stop for that reason alone.

Dashofpepper wrote:Some of the responses in here are pure bullgak.

Agreed. Don't forget immature.

To those of us who know how to maintain ourselves, someone defending drinking to excess at an event where it is inappropriate to do so looks just as ridiculous.

Again, 77% of people in this thread think that some sort of drinking should be allowed. Your getting so mad, and rude, with people who dare disagree with you isn't helping your case.

Dashofpepper wrote:

Gornall wrote:If I am happily enjoying my coke, what would make someone think that I would want a beer? If I wanted a beer I would be drinking one to begin with. Might just be me though. If you offered to buy me a round of what I was having, though, I would get your next round...

I think that drinking in moderation is fine... Getting tipsy... Not so much. Personally, if I am in a non-bar setting I allow a drink per hour. That way I can enjoy a drink if I wish without having to worry about getting too tipsy. YMMV

Or, how about a sample of what really happened.

I finish one of my games, and the player next to me has the most ridiculously beautifully converted and painted army. I've got pictures, they're being uploaded - but his army is literally a playable diorama of a Blood Angel vs. Tau fight. Farsight has his power sword carving into the Dreadnought's chest, plasma is spilling out...the conversion is his actual model for it...simply beyond words. He tells me how he did the plasma effects, and I ask him if I can buy him a beer for the privilege of having seen such a masterpiece.

The guy playing Necrons - I bought him a beer because he was brave enough to bring Necrons. An older guy in the corner hanging out by himself - I hadn't seen him socializing with anyone at the event, so I struck up a conversation with him and subsequently bought him a beer. The guy who won best painted....again, I have pictures. We talked for 10 minutes, he was walking me through his conversions and how he turned Grey Knights into Chaos Marines (he has a Dreadknight converted Soul Grinder that is absolutely beastly), and bought him a beer for taking the time to chat with me. I bought the TO a beer as a sign of appreciation for hosting the event.

Etc.

If someone offers you a beer, and you don't want one...all you have to say is, "Nah, I'm good but thanks!"

Some of the responses in here are pure bullgak. OMG DISRESPECTFUL! HOW DARE YOU! That attitude is ridiculous.

I havent seen any of the responses you are talking about. Most are saying it is fine in moderation and at appropriate venues. I was just making the point that if someone turns down your offer of a beer, that doesnt make them a prude. Like I said, I will even buy your next round (if you seem like you can handle it).

Mannahnin wrote:Dash, please stop trying to pick a fight. Everyone in this thread who disagrees with you has been civil about it.

The person in the other thread who talked about calling the cops was talking from a position of dealing with an unpleasant drunk, and he later modified his comments. When you keep attempting to paint people who have different preferences in this way, it doesn't make your own position look good.

Remember that in a tournament you have very limited options when it comes to your opponents. If I voluntarily put myself in a state of intoxication where some folks find me less enjoyable to interact with, that's as much on me as it is on them.

Ayah, as the one who said he'd call the cops I was referring to a drunk. or to get an advantage

But who are we kidding. We all know I'd call the cops just to get the look on DOP's face (and steal his rum, mostly to steal his rum).

Dashofpepper wrote:Some of the responses in here are pure bullgak. OMG DISRESPECTFUL! HOW DARE YOU! That attitude is ridiculous.

where are all of those responses? That aren't actually referring to being drunk?

for a guy that's trying not to pick a fight you seem to be consistently misportraying the opposition. Yes, a lot of people dislike drinking, for personal and moral reasons. It's an addictive drug that can (but doesn't always) hurt both the user and those around him. A lot of people think the benefits outweigh the costs (and I'm one of them), but it's a pretty reasonable attitude to simply not like drinking.

So yes, this means that some of the people you've played ahve mostly likely secretly not liked that you were drinking.

Frazzled wrote:

Mannahnin wrote:Dash, please stop trying to pick a fight. Everyone in this thread who disagrees with you has been civil about it.

The person in the other thread who talked about calling the cops was talking from a position of dealing with an unpleasant drunk, and he later modified his comments. When you keep attempting to paint people who have different preferences in this way, it doesn't make your own position look good.

Remember that in a tournament you have very limited options when it comes to your opponents. If I voluntarily put myself in a state of intoxication where some folks find me less enjoyable to interact with, that's as much on me as it is on them.

Ayah, as the one who said he'd call the cops I was referring to a drunk. or to get an advantage

But who are we kidding. We all know I'd call the cops just to get the look on DOP's face (and steal his rum, mostly to steal his rum).

If of course this event did occur, you would be forced to do a photocollage of dash's reaction, and then make it your new avatar. As cool as weiner dogs are, I think this could take the cake.

woops double post

Frazzled wrote:
But who are we kidding. We all know I'd call the cops just to get the look on DOP's face (and steal his rum, mostly to steal his rum).

Quick, everyone do something naughty, Frazz is stuck in an infinite loop and is powerless!

targetawg wrote:

Frazzled wrote:

Mannahnin wrote:Dash, please stop trying to pick a fight. Everyone in this thread who disagrees with you has been civil about it.

The person in the other thread who talked about calling the cops was talking from a position of dealing with an unpleasant drunk, and he later modified his comments. When you keep attempting to paint people who have different preferences in this way, it doesn't make your own position look good.

Remember that in a tournament you have very limited options when it comes to your opponents. If I voluntarily put myself in a state of intoxication where some folks find me less enjoyable to interact with, that's as much on me as it is on them.

Ayah, as the one who said he'd call the cops I was referring to a drunk. or to get an advantage

But who are we kidding. We all know I'd call the cops just to get the look on DOP's face (and steal his rum, mostly to steal his rum).

If of course this event did occur, you would be forced to do a photocollage of dash's reaction, and then make it your new avatar. As cool as weiner dogs are, I think this could take the cake.

I'd put it in my signature line.

zedsdead wrote:

People choose Not to drink for varying reasons.. most, we would not be aware of without knowing them on a very personal basis. Health, alcholism, past history or the sitiation there in will determine a persons willingness to partake in activities such as Drinking.

Seeking out people at a social occasion such as a back yard BBQ, wedding or a Gaming tournament, ect. who are visably "not drinking" to offer them alchohol to promote your "right to drink" frankly is the act of an immature individual.

Its a shame those individuals werent offered the same respect that you expect from people who are intolerant of drinkers. Its a shame those kids and there parents at the venue werent given the same respect as well. Who knows ... some of those adults not drinking may have been doing so because kids were there.

Gornall, here's one of the responses I'm talking about.

I'm not defending anyone's right to be drunk or obnoxious at a GT. Believing that requires some pretty selective reading skills of what I've written. I've been critically clear about that this entire thread. I *am* defending the right to consume libations at a GT, and standing counterpoint to the opinion that offering to buy someone a beer who isn't drinking one at a beer event is poor behavior....and shows a lack of respect.

Like I said - bullgak.

Dashofpepper wrote:I've been critically clear about that this entire thread. I *am* defending the right to consume libations at a GT, and standing counterpoint to the opinion that offering to buy someone a beer who isn't drinking one at a beer event is poor behavior....and shows a lack of respect.

Why do you care?

Your anger and inability to stand that someone might disagree with you is pretty uncomfortable to watch. Did you read Polonius' post? I'd like to see you answer his points instead of saying the same thing over and over.

Polonius wrote:

Dashofpepper wrote:Some of the responses in here are pure bullgak. OMG DISRESPECTFUL! HOW DARE YOU! That attitude is ridiculous.

where are all of those responses? That aren't actually referring to being drunk?

for a guy that's trying not to pick a fight you seem to be consistently misportraying the opposition. Yes, a lot of people dislike drinking, for personal and moral reasons. It's an addictive drug that can (but doesn't always) hurt both the user and those around him. A lot of people think the benefits outweigh the costs (and I'm one of them), but it's a pretty reasonable attitude to simply not like drinking.

So yes, this means that some of the people you've played ahve mostly likely secretly not liked that you were drinking.

There, in case you missed it.

If someone offered me a drink at a GT thinking i didnt have one i WOULD be pissed! i ALWAYS have a drink on me...always.

I don't think there is a basic right to drink at tournaments.

There is certainly a broad middle ground where venues and people support it in the right circumstances.

There is also a substantial (24%) of people who aren't OK with it.

Dashofpepper wrote:

offering to buy someone a beer who isn't drinking one at a beer event is poor behavior....and shows a lack of respect.

There's nothing disrespectful about offering someone a beer, or a soda, or a coffee, or whatever their drink of choice, in fact it's downright generous. I don't think anyone is saying that.

The issue as I see it is that people have problem with the drunken/belligerent behavior often associated with drinking, which is a legitimate concern. Calling that bs is akin to sticking your head in the sand.

Having a couple beers during a game is fine, but what if I'm that person's 5th opponent for the day and they're on beer number 11+? Am I allowed to be concerned then? I think I am, you seem to think I have no right.


Also, on a side note, these poll options are stupid, and very black and white. According tot he OP, you're either in the camp where drinking is absolutely fine or it absolutely isn't, when a lot of the responses here seem to be in a grey area somewhere in the middle. Personally, I don't care if you're going to drink during our game, I only care if you're going to be a belligerent moron while you do it, and I reserve the right to ask for a different opponent if I get paired against your poor-judgement having ass in the event that the latter is true.

I don't like drunkards. I may like the person when they're sober, but drunkards are generally worthless.

They should have two tourneys - those that drink and those that don't.

To play in the drinker catagory - you have to blow a .1 on a breath-alyzer before each game.........that should make for some "interesting" stories.....

(this was an idea they were going to use for a painting competition at the Waagh)

Polonius wrote:

Dashofpepper wrote:Some of the responses in here are pure bullgak. OMG DISRESPECTFUL! HOW DARE YOU! That attitude is ridiculous.

where are all of those responses? That aren't actually referring to being drunk?

for a guy that's trying not to pick a fight you seem to be consistently misportraying the opposition. Yes, a lot of people dislike drinking, for personal and moral reasons. It's an addictive drug that can (but doesn't always) hurt both the user and those around him. A lot of people think the benefits outweigh the costs (and I'm one of them), but it's a pretty reasonable attitude to simply not like drinking.

So yes, this means that some of the people you've played ahve mostly likely secretly not liked that you were drinking.

I quoted one for Gornall's benefit. And yours apparently.

Misportraying....seems to mostly involve people selectively reading and choosing how to interpret what I'm writing other than at face value. People are welcome to dislike drinking. If you dislike OTHER people drinking, then you either shouldn't attend an event that has drinking as part of it, or you should be polite.

And if people secretly don't like that their opponent is having a drink....that's perfectly fine. Its when they open their mouth to express that opinion TO their opponent, or here...that a boundary gets crossed of "minding your own business."

Monster Rain: You are grossly overstating my reactions. I'm neither angry nor demonstrating an inability to stand someone disagreeing with me. You tell me not to say the same thing over and over again, but I keep HAVING to say it over and over again because you didn't get it the first time.
----------------------------------------
My opinion (again): Outside of law or contractual obligation, no one has ANY RIGHT to try forcing another person to conform to their own personal beliefs, or attempting to punish them for not doing so.
-----------------------------------------
The only disagreement with me in this thread is the argument that drinking should not be allowed at tournaments, and that offering to buy someone a beer who isn't drinking one is disrespectful.

And...again...I have the same stance on all things where one person is trying to force another person into a behavior that has nothing to do with legality. Refusing to play against someone who's army isn't painted to your personal standard. I disagree. Forcing another person into service to you (slavery): I disagree. Labeling all Jews as evil and burning them: I disagree.

That's right....I did it. Those are all degrees on the same sliding scale of intolerance. And if I'm a hypocrite for being intolerant of intolerance, I'm happy to be.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Bunker wrote:

The issue as I see it is that people have problem with the drunken/belligerent behavior often associated with drinking, which is a legitimate concern. Having a couple beers during a game is fine, but what if I'm that person's 5th opponent for the day and they're on beer number 11+? Am I allowed to be concerned then? I think I am, you seem to think I have no right.

And I've said nothing counter to that opinion. The only objections I am raising are to the "Drinking has no place at tournaments" crowd. Despite my best efforts at literacy and passionate explanation, it seems like some folks seem to think I am defending the right to get blitzed and become bellligerent. Maybe they've had a few too many drinks.

Dashofpepper wrote:

Gornall wrote:If I am happily enjoying my coke, what would make someone think that I would want a beer? If I wanted a beer I would be drinking one to begin with. Might just be me though. If you offered to buy me a round of what I was having, though, I would get your next round...

I think that drinking in moderation is fine... Getting tipsy... Not so much. Personally, if I am in a non-bar setting I allow a drink per hour. That way I can enjoy a drink if I wish without having to worry about getting too tipsy. YMMV

Or, how about a sample of what really happened.

I finish one of my games, and the player next to me has the most ridiculously beautifully converted and painted army. I've got pictures, they're being uploaded - but his army is literally a playable diorama of a Blood Angel vs. Tau fight. Farsight has his power sword carving into the Dreadnought's chest, plasma is spilling out...the conversion is his actual model for it...simply beyond words. He tells me how he did the plasma effects, and I ask him if I can buy him a beer for the privilege of having seen such a masterpiece.

The guy playing Necrons - I bought him a beer because he was brave enough to bring Necrons. An older guy in the corner hanging out by himself - I hadn't seen him socializing with anyone at the event, so I struck up a conversation with him and subsequently bought him a beer. The guy who won best painted....again, I have pictures. We talked for 10 minutes, he was walking me through his conversions and how he turned Grey Knights into Chaos Marines (he has a Dreadknight converted Soul Grinder that is absolutely beastly), and bought him a beer for taking the time to chat with me. I bought the TO a beer as a sign of appreciation for hosting the event.

Etc.

If someone offers you a beer, and you don't want one...all you have to say is, "Nah, I'm good but thanks!"

Some of the responses in here are pure bullgak. OMG DISRESPECTFUL! HOW DARE YOU! That attitude is ridiculous.

+1 DoP

ITT: Loud minority appearing to be the majority, as a result of the internet.

Clearly, drinking occurs at a great many GT and other such "official" tournies. Hell, deep down, I probably built my Daemons so that I wouldn't have to drown my sorrows in a bottle of makers mark after surgically removing Blood Angel boots from my Tau's rear ends. (*DISCLAIMER&* This is hyperbole. A popular method of writing in the United States. Gross exaggeration for comedic effect. Don't go calling me an alcoholic, I did not literally drink an entire bottle of Makers Mark during every tourny. Even if I did, it would be none of your business.) Nearly every large convention center style event I have been to, has had booze available, in some form or another, within reasonable distance from the gaming tables.

If someone is drunk and disorderly... do the same thing you would do if they were SOBER and disorderly. Call a TO.

Otherwise, leave us happy, functioning, social drinkers... to our own devices... you know.. the devices that have been a part of society for literally as long as there has been recorded history.

Dashofpepper wrote:And...again...I have the same stance on all things where one person is trying to force another person into a behavior that has nothing to do with legality. Refusing to play against someone who's army isn't painted to your personal standard. I disagree. Forcing another person into service to you (slavery): I disagree. Labeling all Jews as evil and burning them: I disagree.

That's right....I did it. Those are all degrees on the same sliding scale of intolerance. And if I'm a hypocrite for being intolerant of intolerance, I'm happy to be.

So you just Godwin'd the thread by equating stopping you from drinking while playing Warhams to the Holocaust and Nazis? /slowclap

Dashofpepper wrote:Monster Rain: You are grossly overstating my reactions. I'm neither angry nor demonstrating an inability to stand someone disagreeing with me. You tell me not to say the same thing over and over again, but I keep HAVING to say it over and over again because you didn't get it the first time.

Your disagreement isn't with me.

I'm talking about your inability to deal with others that disagree with you.

As to being intolerant of intolerance, you're really reaching. You don't have a fundamental right to drink, so you're getting a mite melodramatic here. As for equating this discussion of drinking to excess at Space Manz tournaments to the holocaust (Godwin wept) I'm going to use your own phrases:

"Bullgak" and "off your rocker."

zedsdead wrote:
However a T.O. that allows drinking at a tournament they host where they accept registrations from kids under the age of 18 isnt making a wise choice.

Creating a situation that might possibly expose a child to a drinker is pretty darn irresponsable.

I take my son with me to many tournaments and i would be pretty pissed if my son was at a table with a guy who was drinking.

Yes and when I have a family banquet, the little ones must stay at home. Restaurants that serve alcohol, should also ban kids under 18.

So I have a question, when you drink do you run with your beer into a closet, and drink there in the dark?

But in all honesty I can understand your fear that your child may see a stumbling, slurring, inebriated "drinker" and think... Wow that's what I want to be...

Dashofpepper wrote:And if people secretly don't like that their opponent is having a drink....that's perfectly fine. Its when they open their mouth to express that opinion TO their opponent, or here...that a boundary gets crossed of "minding your own business."

It ain't "none of my business", you're wasting my goddamned time playing me drunk ya boozer! Play me sober. Drunkards are trash. Hell, even stoners are better than drunkards, at least they're typically less likely to try to grab my ass or make some dumbass slurred pickup line.

Ysclyth wrote:Yes and when I have a family banquet, the little ones must stay at home. Restaurants that serve alcohol, should also ban kids under 18.

So I have a question, when you drink do you run with your beer into a closet, and drink there in the dark?

But in all honesty I can understand your fear that your child may see a stumbling, slurring, inebriated "drinker" and think... Wow that's what I want to be...

At a restaurant, there is no chance that your child might be forced to sit with a drunk; the same isn't true at a tournament, where pairings may indeed match underage players against someone who is drinking.

Monster Rain wrote:

Dashofpepper wrote:Monster Rain: You are grossly overstating my reactions. I'm neither angry nor demonstrating an inability to stand someone disagreeing with me. You tell me not to say the same thing over and over again, but I keep HAVING to say it over and over again because you didn't get it the first time.

Your disagreement isn't with me.

I'm talking about your inability to deal with others that disagree with you.

As to being intolerant of intolerance, you're really reaching. You don't have a fundamental right to drink, so you're getting a mite melodramatic here. As for equating this discussion of drinking to excess at Space Manz tournaments to the holocaust (Godwin wept) I'm going to use your own phrases:

"Bullgak" and "off your rocker."

Actually. Given the fact that we (Americans) live in a country where you have the constitutional right, within the confines of the law, do whatever the hell you want... (the whole 'free country' schpiel) and (correct me if I'm wrong here) the 'open container' laws really only pertain to being out of doors... if I drop a nip of the captain from a flask in my pocket into the dixie of coke I just got at the refreshment stand... and you don't like it... you can literally whine and complain and speak your mind about it all day long... but you quite literally can not stop me.

As Americans, we have the fundemental right (within the law, within our borders) to do whatever the hell we want.

*waves a gigantic flag and loads his shotgun*

Seriously though. This is a "mind your own business" situation.

If they are stumbling, knocking over the table, stealing your girlfriend and incomprehensible, then they are drunk and disorderly, which is against the law.

But if they are getting their drink on, while rolling some d6.... then it's quite literally their right to do so.

Kilkrazy wrote:I don't think there is a basic right to drink at tournaments.

There is certainly a broad middle ground where venues and people support it in the right circumstances.

There is also a substantial (24%) of people who aren't OK with it.

I'd also note, although I haven't explored it, the issue of drinkers around minors could be, well, an issue.
1. Until you're 21 you can't drink in the US. Thats a large segment of "adult" players who can't drink.
2. While it may be less of an issue at a multiday GT, the title is "tourneys." I'd proffer this would be much more of an issue there. As a parent, if they found out Jr. was at a tournament where there was booze about there's a chance they'd freak, like in calling cops or suing them level freak.

Cottonjaw wrote:Actually. Given the fact that we (Americans) live in a country where you have the constitutional right, within the confines of the law, do whatever the hell you want... (the whole 'free country' schpiel) and (correct me if I'm wrong here) the 'open container' laws really only pertain to being out of doors... if I drop a nip of the captain from a flask in my pocket into the dixie of coke I just got at the refreshment stand... and you don't like it... you can literally whine and complain and speak your mind about it all day long... but you quite literally can not stop me.

As Americans, we have the fundemental right (within the law, within our borders) to do whatever the hell we want.

Gah. No. No, you don't have a fundamental right to do whatever the hell you want.

Just about every tournament occurs on private property. The owner of private property DOES have the right to place constraints on your presence there. Moreover, every state places limitations on where and when alcohol may be purchased; some also place constraints on where it may be consumed.

Bunker wrote:

Dashofpepper wrote:

offering to buy someone a beer who isn't drinking one at a beer event is poor behavior....and shows a lack of respect.

There's nothing disrespectful about offering someone a beer, or a soda, or a coffee, or whatever their drink of choice, in fact it's downright generous. I don't think anyone is saying that.

I am potentially. If you just offered a minor a drink you may have committed a crime.

Cottonjaw wrote:As Americans, we have the fundemental right (within the law, within our borders) to do whatever the hell we want.

USA! USA!

I think you'll find, upon reading some(any) laws about drinking in public you'd find that it's not quite as cut and dried as you think it is. Also, as fun as it is to jump into a thread that you've clearly barely read and start scrapping you might want to actually find out what the actual opinions of the participants are.

Cottonjaw wrote:If they are stumbling, knocking over the table, stealing your girlfriend and incomprehensible, then they are drunk and disorderly, which is against the law.

Which is where the overwhelming majority, myself included, draw the line. Otherwise, drink a couple of beers. I'll be doing so myself.

Melissia wrote:I don't like drunkards. I may like the person when they're sober, but drunkards are generally worthless.

True that.

Janthkin wrote:

Cottonjaw wrote:Actually. Given the fact that we (Americans) live in a country where you have the constitutional right, within the confines of the law, do whatever the hell you want... (the whole 'free country' schpiel) and (correct me if I'm wrong here) the 'open container' laws really only pertain to being out of doors... if I drop a nip of the captain from a flask in my pocket into the dixie of coke I just got at the refreshment stand... and you don't like it... you can literally whine and complain and speak your mind about it all day long... but you quite literally can not stop me.

As Americans, we have the fundemental right (within the law, within our borders) to do whatever the hell we want.

Gah. No. No, you don't have a fundamental right to do whatever the hell you want.

Just about every tournament occurs on private property. The owner of private property DOES have the right to place constraints on your presence there. Moreover, every state places limitations on where and when alcohol may be purchased; some also place constraints on where it may be consumed.

If the tournament owner STATES that drinking is prohibited, then so be it.

If no statement is made, or if booze is present (which is the norm), then until told otherwise, the drinker is in the clear.

And I've been in this hobby since 1999 and have never heard of a "dry tourney" except, obviously, at game stores and the like.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Monster Rain wrote:

Cottonjaw wrote:As Americans, we have the fundemental right (within the law, within our borders) to do whatever the hell we want.

USA! USA!

I think you'll find, upon reading some(any) laws about drinking in public you'd find that it's not quite as cut and dried as you think it is. Also, as fun as it is to jump into a thread that you've clearly barely read and start scrapping you might want to actually find out what the actual opinions of the participants are.

I've read, and followed the entire thread.

Assumptions about me assuming? *whistles* I'll just leave that one alone.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
The point I'm trying to make, is that unless the tournament specifically states that drinking is prohibited in the gaming area. Or if it is at a location where drinking would be out of place (game store)....

Then you do, have a fundemental right, to let whatever liquid you want, fall down your throat hole.

I think we can do without spiralling into the abyss of arguing about arguing and making assumptions about other poster's assumptions about your assumptions with regards to their own assumptions.

... or something like that anyway, I got lost about mid way through that in a hell of my own making. Thanks a lot internet !

Disagreement or debating is fine, let's please leave out the "subtle" digs and personal comments please.
Much obliged.

Cottonjaw wrote:Assumptions about me assuming? *whistles* I'll just leave that one alone.

It wasn't much of a leap, considering your statements.

You were acting like I had a problem with drinking at tournaments, which I have never said. In fact, I've repeatedly stated the opposite.

Either you assumed something, or didn't comprehend what you'd been reading. I was giving you the benefit of the doubt.

Either way, let's no go any further OT. At least not in this direction.

Monster Rain wrote:

Cottonjaw wrote:Assumptions about me assuming? *whistles* I'll just leave that one alone.

It wasn't much of a leap, considering your statements.

You were acting like I had a problem with drinking at tournaments, which I have never said. In fact, I've repeatedly stated the opposite.

Either you assumed something, or didn't comprehend what you'd been reading. I was giving you the benefit of the doubt.

Weeeellll *internet handshake*. No offense taken, and I honestly wasn't mad, I was just trying to illustrate a point.

To keep us on topic: Has anyone actually seen this conversation outside of a forum? I mean I never particularly noticed anyone opposed to drinking, or a tournament information sheet saying "No alcohol may be consumed at this event."

What I'm wondering is; has this issue ever come up in anyones tournament experience (and I don't mean stories about johnny drunko breaking your land raider) I mean the tournament specifically banning alcohol.

Sorry if I come off a little rough, I am a sailor after all.

Janthkin wrote:At a restaurant, there is no chance that your child might be forced to sit with a drunk; the same isn't true at a tournament, where pairings may indeed match underage players against someone who is drinking.

Well maybe I have been to different restaurants than you. But sitting at the same table and sitting right next a particular person does not create a magic wall which allows you to be in your own world unaware of whats happening 3 feet from you.

I think this comes to what we are perceiving as drinking though. If I am having a beer while I'm playing a 14yo and his mother comes up and chews my ear off. I will get livid with her for pretending her child has never seen a beer commercial.

Cottonjaw wrote:What I'm wondering is; has this issue ever come up in anyones tournament experience (and I don't mean stories about johnny drunko breaking your land raider) I mean the tournament specifically banning alcohol.

No, because I think it's a more or less common sense issue.

Most people, as in this thread, are okay with drinking until you become a problem because of it.

Do they have tournaments in Utah?

Ysclyth wrote:

Janthkin wrote:At a restaurant, there is no chance that your child might be forced to sit with a drunk; the same isn't true at a tournament, where pairings may indeed match underage players against someone who is drinking.

Well maybe I have been to different restaurants than you. But sitting at the same table and sitting right next a particular person does not create a magic wall which allows you to be in your own world unaware of whats happening 3 feet from you.

I think this comes to what we are perceiving as drinking though. If I am having a beer while I'm playing a 14yo and his mother comes up and chews my ear off. I will get livid with her for pretending her child has never seen a beer commercial.

Well outside of the Soviet Union, drunks areusually thrown out of restaurants that have children patrons. Is it not there also?

Dashofpepper wrote:
I quoted one for Gornall's benefit. And yours apparently.

I saw that. He said that offering drinks as a means of showing you have the right to drink is disrespectful. It still didn't say that drinking by itself is disrespectful.

Misportraying....seems to mostly involve people selectively reading and choosing how to interpret what I'm writing other than at face value. People are welcome to dislike drinking. If you dislike OTHER people drinking, then you either shouldn't attend an event that has drinking as part of it, or you should be polite.

To what extent do most tournaments have drinking as an aspect? In the Great Lakes region, I've never seen anybody drink at a tournament, but my experience is only three states (ohio, western PA, MI). So I dont' consider most tournaments to really be "wet" events.

And if people secretly don't like that their opponent is having a drink....that's perfectly fine. Its when they open their mouth to express that opinion TO their opponent, or here...that a boundary gets crossed of "minding your own business."

hmmm. I think context matters a lot here. I'd agree that if it's a legitly wet event, than tough cookies.

My opinion (again): Outside of law or contractual obligation, no one has ANY RIGHT to try forcing another person to conform to their own personal beliefs, or attempting to punish them for not doing so.

Nobody is telling anybody that they don't have the right to be a jerk. But people have the right to call them out as one.

Are people forcing you to not drink? Then shut up about force. If you have the right to drink, then somebody else has the right to ask you not to. So, it sounds like you want people to respect your right to free choice while not respecting the right of others to make a request.

In other words, people have to deal with your drinking, but you don't like dealing with people's feelings on the matter.

Frazzled wrote:

Ysclyth wrote:

Janthkin wrote:At a restaurant, there is no chance that your child might be forced to sit with a drunk; the same isn't true at a tournament, where pairings may indeed match underage players against someone who is drinking.

Well maybe I have been to different restaurants than you. But sitting at the same table and sitting right next a particular person does not create a magic wall which allows you to be in your own world unaware of whats happening 3 feet from you.

I think this comes to what we are perceiving as drinking though. If I am having a beer while I'm playing a 14yo and his mother comes up and chews my ear off. I will get livid with her for pretending her child has never seen a beer commercial.

Well outside of the Soviet Union, drunks areusually thrown out of restaurants that have children patrons. Is it not there also?

My original comment was about "drinkers" not drunks, entirely different things. As far as I understand the words, a drinker is a person who drinks alcohol, a drunk is a person who drinks to much.

Yes in the USA, they throw drunks out of restaurants, but the don't throw "drinkers" out.

Polonius wrote:Are people forcing you to not drink? Then shut up about force. If you have the right to drink, then somebody else has the right to ask you not to. So, it sounds like you want people to respect your right to free choice while not respecting the right of others to make a request.

In other words, people have to deal with your drinking, but you don't like dealing with people's feelings on the matter.

That's right. If you show up across the table from me at a GT that includes drinking, and I've got a cup of booze in front of me, and you say "Please don't drink during our game" I'm going to respond with "Please don't open your mouth again." If you or someone else is not emotionally stable enough to be in the presence of an adult having a drink (do not confuse this with being blitzed) because of personal issues involving alcohol, then you should have stayed home.

Trying to make the world conform to you....not so hot. And from these poll answers, 24% of people (77 people) either believe that drinking has no place in tournaments....or will go a step further to actually be OFFENDED if someone is drinking in their presence.

That's why I used the word dysfunctional earlier in the thread. 16% of the poll selection would be offended by someone drinking at a tournament. The extremely vocal minority. If I'm enjoying myself at an event, buy myself a beer, and my opponent asks me to put it away because he doesn't like the smell of it....I *am* going to tell them that they should probably pack up and leave if they can't handle being at an event where drinking is allowed/encouraged.

Polonius, we're going to just have to disagree about what being disrespectful constitutes.

Frankly I consider drunkards to be disrespectful by default (just being drunk around other people is disrespectful to them) anyway, so I'm gonna have to disagree as well

So does drinking a few drinks turn someone into a drunkard?

Personally I can drink quite a few drinks before I even become "buzzed". So at a tournament unless I've had more than 4 drinks in the past 1 hr you probably wouldn't even notice.

I'd be more curious to see what you feel "GT that includes drinking" means. I've never been to any that really encourage drinking, so I'm not sure how prevelent the practice is.

That said, if a person politely requests that you stop a behavior, I don't see how that's incredibly disrespectiful.

Let me at least offer a scenario. What if it's a GT that allows BYOB, but not a lot of people are drinking, and you're opponent says "Hey, just so you know, I'm a recovering alcoholic, and I'd prefer it if you didn't drink."

Would that be disrespectful to you?

I'd also point out that doing things for other that rules don't allow is part of gentlemanly behavior. Going without a drink for a round might suck, but showing active respect for an opponent is simply good behavior.

Whenever I'm out with somebody, I always ask if they'd mind if I had a drink before I order one. That's how I'd approach 40k drinking: I'd ask if they minded me drinking, and if they don't, I'd offer a round.

wileythenord wrote:So does drinking a few drinks turn someone into a drunkard?

Even if they claim they don't feel it, even a few drinks can alter someone's state of mind and turn them into ass-hats. Everyone's body reacts differently to drugs of course, but just because you THINK it's not effecting you doesn't mean it isn't.

I don't know these random strangers at a tournament, and I don't trust them sober. I especially don't trust them drunk.

wileythenord wrote:So does drinking a few drinks turn someone into a drunkard?

Personally I can drink quite a few drinks before I even become "buzzed". So at a tournament unless I've had more than 4 drinks in the past 1 hr you probably wouldn't even notice.

Unless you weigh 300 lbs, the fact you think that is not a good sign. If you weigh 300 lbs thats also not a good sign.

Dashofpepper wrote:

Polonius wrote:Are people forcing you to not drink? Then shut up about force. If you have the right to drink, then somebody else has the right to ask you not to. So, it sounds like you want people to respect your right to free choice while not respecting the right of others to make a request.

In other words, people have to deal with your drinking, but you don't like dealing with people's feelings on the matter.

That's right. If you show up across the table from me at a GT that includes drinking, and I've got a cup of booze in front of me, and you say "Please don't drink during our game" I'm going to respond with "Please don't open your mouth again." If you or someone else is not emotionally stable enough to be in the presence of an adult having a drink (do not confuse this with being blitzed) because of personal issues involving alcohol, then you should have stayed home.

Doesn't requiring alcohol to enjoy oneself at an event constitute a "personal issue involving alcohol" making the inverse also true?

From what I am seeing in this thread, people just have personal problems with drinking, regardless of the person doing it. Which is fine, but if you find yourself at an event that allows drinking, you shouldn't get upset if your opponent has had a few drinks.

At Adepticon 2010 I pretty much had a drink in my hand from 11 am until they closed down the hall. And never during any of my games did an argument arise, I had one guy complain because my Dark Eldar was killing his plague marines and he didn't like Dark Lance spam....but that had nothing to do with the drinking.

I have also never had anyone tell me that drinking turned me into an "ass-hat" or that I seemed to have some sort of "altered state of mind". If the person you are playing is belligerent, then you probably have a good case to stand on, but if the dude is just sipping a jack and coke and surveying the battlefield, you don't have much that can be said.

All of this is assuming the tournament you are playing at allows drinking. If it doesn't then you shouldn't be drinking at the tournament, even if its concealed, that is lame.

Frazzled wrote:Unless you weigh 300 lbs, the fact you think that is not a good sign. If you weigh 300 lbs thats also not a good sign.

I most definately weigh 300 lbs, thanks for noticing!

Dashofpepper wrote:

Polonius wrote:Are people forcing you to not drink? Then shut up about force. If you have the right to drink, then somebody else has the right to ask you not to. So, it sounds like you want people to respect your right to free choice while not respecting the right of others to make a request.

In other words, people have to deal with your drinking, but you don't like dealing with people's feelings on the matter.

That's right. If you show up across the table from me at a GT that includes drinking, and I've got a cup of booze in front of me, and you say "Please don't drink during our game" I'm going to respond with "Please don't open your mouth again."

-One's a request.
-Your reply is much more along what I'd expect from a drunk actually and would end the game right there. You just put it into a threat situation.

So it seems like it comes down to two things:

Does the venue allow alcohol?

Does the TO allow Alcohol at the event?

If the answer to both of these is YES - then people can and probably will drink. If you don't like that - then you should either not go - or go with caution - because the other people have the OK to have a brew.

If the answer to either of these is a NO - then you shouldn't drink. If you don't want to game without drinking - don't go to this tournament - because it's NOT ok to have a brew. The expectation is that you are playing a sober person - and we as the tournament go'ers should respect that and conform - or not go.

Melissa - if drunk gamers come on to you - you must be a hot gamer chick! That's a rare and precious commodity in our little hobby world! HOO-HAH!

Frazzled wrote:

wileythenord wrote:So does drinking a few drinks turn someone into a drunkard?

Personally I can drink quite a few drinks before I even become "buzzed". So at a tournament unless I've had more than 4 drinks in the past 1 hr you probably wouldn't even notice.

Unless you weigh 300 lbs, the fact you think that is not a good sign. If you weigh 300 lbs thats also not a good sign.

Tolerance for alcohol has lots of different factors. Not just body weight and/or "not a good sign" behavior. Weight, for that matter, has a lot of different factors. A person that has a beer/glass of wine/1 shot mixed drink each night when they get home from work, is by no means an alcoholic. They will, however, have a significant tolerance to alcohol as a result.

No it doesn't. Drunk people come on to everyone. It's called beer goggles.

wileythenord wrote:From what I am seeing in this thread, people just have personal problems with drinking, regardless of the person doing it. Which is fine, but if you find yourself at an event that allows drinking, you shouldn't get upset if your opponent has had a few drinks.

At Adepticon 2010 I pretty much had a drink in my hand from 11 am until they closed down the hall. And never during any of my games did an argument arise, I had one guy complain because my Dark Eldar was killing his plague marines and he didn't like Dark Lance spam....but that had nothing to do with the drinking.

I have also never had anyone tell me that drinking turned me into an "ass-hat" or that I seemed to have some sort of "altered state of mind". If the person you are playing is belligerent, then you probably have a good case to stand on, but if the dude is just sipping a jack and coke and surveying the battlefield, you don't have much that can be said.

All of this is assuming the tournament you are playing at allows drinking. If it doesn't then you shouldn't be drinking at the tournament, even if its concealed, that is lame.

Frazzled wrote:Unless you weigh 300 lbs, the fact you think that is not a good sign. If you weigh 300 lbs thats also not a good sign.

I most definately weigh 300 lbs, thanks for noticing!

You are a dead sexy 300 pound gaming machine Wiley!

And you are a happy drunk....and are easier to beat when you are drunk.

Please drink more when we play.....

Well, being able to enjoy oneself without alcohol is never a great sign, generally.

I don't think that's the problem here though. What I think the problem actually is is a lack of empathy. Essentially Dash is saying "if the GT allows drinking, I have a right to drink." Which is a fine and true statement. However, and this is the big however, he feels that somebody asking him to not drink is a personal affront. What that shows is a lack of relation to the feelings of others, essentially placing his desire to drink and/or desire to not be told what to do ahead of the desires of another.

Now, all people put the desires of themselves ahead of others, all the time. But usually they at least note that another persons desires have value. Dash appears to not see that. Which is a lack of empathy (the abillity to relate to others' emotional state). It's consistent with at least some of the conflict that seems to surround him.

It's interesting, because if an event explicitly allows drinking, than a person has every right to respond to request no to drink with a polite "no offense, but I prefer to drink while I play." You can understand a persons feelings without agreeing with them.

wileythenord wrote:From what I am seeing in this thread, people just have personal problems with drinking, regardless of the person doing it. Which is fine, but if you find yourself at an event that allows drinking, you shouldn't get upset if your opponent has had a few drinks.

At Adepticon 2010 I pretty much had a drink in my hand from 11 am until they closed down the hall. And never during any of my games did an argument arise, I had one guy complain because my Dark Eldar was killing his plague marines and he didn't like Dark Lance spam....but that had nothing to do with the drinking.

I have also never had anyone tell me that drinking turned me into an "ass-hat" or that I seemed to have some sort of "altered state of mind". If the person you are playing is belligerent, then you probably have a good case to stand on, but if the dude is just sipping a jack and coke and surveying the battlefield, you don't have much that can be said.

All of this is assuming the tournament you are playing at allows drinking. If it doesn't then you shouldn't be drinking at the tournament, even if its concealed, that is lame.

Frazzled wrote:Unless you weigh 300 lbs, the fact you think that is not a good sign. If you weigh 300 lbs thats also not a good sign.

I most definately weigh 300 lbs, thanks for noticing!

No, if you bother to read the thread the antidrinking crowd are generally talking about drunks.
You started drinking at 11.00AM? Wow I don't stop drinking coffee until about 2.00PM. We would be an interesting combo:
Player A "What you're drinking whiskey at this hour?"
Player B "What you're drinking coffee at this hour?"

blink
blink
(players A and B break out the baileys)
mmm...

Melissia wrote:No it doesn't. Drunk people come on to everyone. It's called beer goggles.

Well...I was trying to be complimentary......just say you are - it's the internet.....

Frazzled wrote:

Dashofpepper wrote:That's right. If you show up across the table from me at a GT that includes drinking, and I've got a cup of booze in front of me, and you say "Please don't drink during our game" I'm going to respond with "Please don't open your mouth again."

-One's a request.
-Your reply is much more along what I'd expect from a drunk actually and would end the game right there. You just put it into a threat situation.

Agreed. If someone politely requests that you don't drink, you have every right to politely decline. If you respond like Dash suggests or says that he would to a polite request, that automatically puts you in the wrong. If the venue and tourney allow it and the person asking is a donkeycave, then you can respond likewise in the fashion that Dash suggests.

ps. DCM? Are you still a mod Frazz?

This thread, and some of the arguments in it, utterly confuse me.

I'm no "prude" but I don't think drinking -- much less getting drunk -- really has a place in public outside of bars and restaurants or some traditional venue (such as tailgating parties). Well, maybe I am a prude in DoP's opinion. : insert shrugging orkmoticon :

I can't imagine taking alcohol to a tournament. I'll admit to being prejudiced here but my first thought upon seeing someone drinking -- especially liquor rather than beer -- at a tournament would be "wonder if he's an alcoholic." The next thought would be "weird, I thought alcoholics usually hide their problem." Again, I'm no expert on alcoholism -- those are really the first things that would occur to me.

I also haven't been to more than a couple of tournaments. No one was drinking there. Is this common, though?

Of course, being hung over from the night before is another matter.

Aldonis wrote:

Melissia wrote:No it doesn't. Drunk people come on to everyone. It's called beer goggles.

Well...I was trying to be complimentary......just say you are - it's the internet.....

And I'm being self-effacing, welcome to the internet

Polonius wrote:Let me at least offer a scenario. What if it's a GT that allows BYOB, but not a lot of people are drinking, and you're opponent says "Hey, just so you know, I'm a recovering alcoholic, and I'd prefer it if you didn't drink."

Would that be disrespectful to you?

Polonius: I was an abused child. Two broken adoptions, many foster homes, and much worse. I can't watch movies where kids are being abused without going berzerk. Lets say that "A.I" is going to get shown at the local club for movie night, and I read a review that says it is about a robot that thinks it is a child. And gets abused.

Should I stay home and avoid the movie because I know I'll have an issue watching it? Or should I show up at the club and ask them to turn the movie off because I don't like it?

If a recovering alcoholic shows up at a tournament that advertises BYOB and doesn't have the self-discipline to contain his urges....then he shouldn't have come. And no, I'm not going to put my booze away. I'm going to tell him to pretend it is apple juice.

MMMMM tasty apple juice!

Manchu: At some irish tournaments with a bar, you would see a good few people with a pint or something beside them. Stronger stuff is not common.
I have rarely seen anyone really drunk though. Just a pint or two over the course of the day.

warboss wrote:

Frazzled wrote:

Dashofpepper wrote:That's right. If you show up across the table from me at a GT that includes drinking, and I've got a cup of booze in front of me, and you say "Please don't drink during our game" I'm going to respond with "Please don't open your mouth again."

-One's a request.
-Your reply is much more along what I'd expect from a drunk actually and would end the game right there. You just put it into a threat situation.

Agreed. If someone politely requests that you don't drink, you have every right to politely decline. If you respond like Dash suggests or says that he would to a polite request, that automatically puts you in the wrong. If the venue and tourney allow it and the person asking is a donkeycave, then you can respond likewise in the fashion that Dash suggests.

ps. DCM? Are you still a mod Frazz?

Nope just a secretagentman.

Dashofpepper wrote:

Polonius wrote:Let me at least offer a scenario. What if it's a GT that allows BYOB, but not a lot of people are drinking, and you're opponent says "Hey, just so you know, I'm a recovering alcoholic, and I'd prefer it if you didn't drink."

Would that be disrespectful to you?

Polonius: I was an abused child. Two broken adoptions, many foster homes, and much worse. I can't watch movies where kids are being abused without going berzerk. Lets say that "A.I" is going to get shown at the local club for movie night, and I read a review that says it is about a robot that thinks it is a child. And gets abused.

Should I stay home and avoid the movie because I know I'll have an issue watching it? Or should I show up at the club and ask them to turn the movie off because I don't like it?

If a recovering alcoholic shows up at a tournament that advertises BYOB and doesn't have the self-discipline to contain his urges....then he shouldn't have come. And no, I'm not going to put my booze away. I'm going to tell him to pretend it is apple juice.

Interesting, you didn't answer my question. I asked if it would be disrespectful. In you example, I think if you gave your history, most people would change what they were watching. Maybe if it were new, or somebody needed to write a paper on it or something, but if they're just watching it because they want to watch something, I think most people would understand. Which seems to be what you're missing: most social enviroments actually want people to feel welcome, and have a good time. Sacrificing non-essentials to cater is something that friends, and just plain polite people, do all the time.

That's the crux of the matter: you are putting drinking ahead of making sure your opponent is comfortable, which whether you like it or not, says a lot about you as a person.

You also have a poor understanding of addiction recovery, as it's not really a matter of self discipline. There's behavior modification and whatnot, but rarely will pure willpower win over addiction.

In that example, I wasn't asking you to put your booze away either. I think you're perfectly in your rights to keep drinking. I just find it interesting that you'd be offended by a person even asking, yet you seem not to understand why a person would be uncomfortable with you drinking.

Polonius wrote:Which is a lack of empathy (the abillity to relate to others' emotional state). It's consistent with at least some of the conflict that seems to surround him.

You are correct, I do not empathize. The horrors of the first half of my life make the book, "A Boy Called It" seem like vacation. I've struggled and fought and overcome every step of the way. And if I can do it and HAVE done it, I have no sympathy for people who make mountains out of molehills. If someone has the brainpower to dedicate thought and feeling into being offended by someone doing ANYTHING in their presence that is not directly harmful, then I generally consider them inexperienced, naive to the world, and prissy.

Thin-skinned; that's the best descriptor to be honest. And since I *do* empathize so little with people who don't have bigger issues to worry about in their life....I'm feeling like this thread has turned into mostly a circle-jerk with an occassional differentiating voice (aside from me). I'll bow out.

Ah but Dash, almost no tournaments (with the exception of the one event they are holding in a pub up here in MN) advertise drinking. They don't have rules against it but none of them advertise drinking as allowed at an event. Example is A-Kon. Doesn't say it's going to allow, doesn't say it isn't going to. So if someone shows up and kindly asks you, with good reason, not to drink during a game why are they in the wrong?

Bear in mind I drink at any event that doesn't forbid it (since it's really the only time outside of major holidays that I drink). A few beers throughout the day (Like 2-4 over 12 hours, I'm a lightweight ) is fine. But if I have an opponent who is genuinely upset at the idea then cool, I'll pack it away and ask them if they wanna grab me a soda while we play. It's happened exactly once and oddly, i gots a soda out of it . In this case it's just like Polonius said. It's about empathy. I could say no, but why would I? It's a level of courtesy I'd expect out of others so I try to make sure I give it.

Just my two cents on it.

Good for you and all. But you ain't the only one that's had a hard life, and yours gives you no privileges to be rude to anyone else.

Polonius wrote:You also have a poor understanding of addiction recovery, as it's not really a matter of self discipline. There's behavior modification and whatnot, but rarely will pure willpower win over addiction.

Now you're actually starting to piss me off. You have no idea.

Dashofpepper wrote:

Polonius wrote:Let me at least offer a scenario. What if it's a GT that allows BYOB, but not a lot of people are drinking, and you're opponent says "Hey, just so you know, I'm a recovering alcoholic, and I'd prefer it if you didn't drink."

Would that be disrespectful to you?

Polonius: I was an abused child. Two broken adoptions, many foster homes, and much worse. I can't watch movies where kids are being abused without going berzerk. Lets say that "A.I" is going to get shown at the local club for movie night, and I read a review that says it is about a robot that thinks it is a child. And gets abused.

Should I stay home and avoid the movie because I know I'll have an issue watching it? Or should I show up at the club and ask them to turn the movie off because I don't like it?

If a recovering alcoholic shows up at a tournament that advertises BYOB and doesn't have the self-discipline to contain his urges....then he shouldn't have come. And no, I'm not going to put my booze away. I'm going to tell him to pretend it is apple juice.

Wait, when have you been to a tournament that advertised as 'BYOB?'

Da Boss wrote:Manchu: At some irish tournaments with a bar, you would see a good few people with a pint or something beside them. Stronger stuff is not common.
I have rarely seen anyone really drunk though. Just a pint or two over the course of the day.

I can't call foul on drinking pints at an Irish tournament when no one even gets drunk. Well, can't call foul on anyone being disrespectful that is.

The US is by and large a protestant and "post-protestant" country with a national prohibition law in our not-at-all-distant past. We have a ton of people who grew up with at least the unconscious propaganda (if not the explicit condemnation of many Baptists) that alcohol is a social evil -- I'm thinking DARE and Driver's Ed. here, folks, not just someone's particular church. A helpful rule of thumb is: when you're the only one who's upset, it's unlikely that it's everyone else that has the problem. Similarly, when you're the only one who's drinking, it's not necessarily because everyone else is a prude.

Dashofpepper wrote:

Polonius wrote:You also have a poor understanding of addiction recovery, as it's not really a matter of self discipline. There's behavior modification and whatnot, but rarely will pure willpower win over addiction.

Now you're actually starting to piss me off. You have no idea.

For someone not trying to pick fights in this thread, you're doing a miserable job not looking like you're trying to pick fights.

Bunker wrote:

Dashofpepper wrote:

offering to buy someone a beer who isn't drinking one at a beer event is poor behavior....and shows a lack of respect.

There's nothing disrespectful about offering someone a beer, or a soda, or a coffee, or whatever their drink of choice, in fact it's downright generous. I don't think anyone is saying that.

The issue as I see it is that people have problem with the drunken/belligerent behavior often associated with drinking, which is a legitimate concern. Calling that bs is akin to sticking your head in the sand.

Having a couple beers during a game is fine, but what if I'm that person's 5th opponent for the day and they're on beer number 11+? Am I allowed to be concerned then? I think I am, you seem to think I have no right.


Also, on a side note, these poll options are stupid, and very black and white. According tot he OP, you're either in the camp where drinking is absolutely fine or it absolutely isn't, when a lot of the responses here seem to be in a grey area somewhere in the middle. Personally, I don't care if you're going to drink during our game, I only care if you're going to be a belligerent moron while you do it, and I reserve the right to ask for a different opponent if I get paired against your poor-judgement having ass in the event that the latter is true.

1. You dont like drinking
2. Your ok with a little drinking
3. your ok with a lot of drinking
4 your ok with drinking but mabey at lunch or after.

you said you didnt get the poll twice to I cleared it up for you, I was trying to be lightharted when I wrote it and thought it coverd the spectrum very well.

Dashofpepper wrote:

Polonius wrote:You also have a poor understanding of addiction recovery, as it's not really a matter of self discipline. There's behavior modification and whatnot, but rarely will pure willpower win over addiction.

Now you're actually starting to piss me off. You have no idea.

Why? Because he pointed out, rightly so, that you don't know much about addiction (at least from what you've posted)? Your posts on the subject were pretty offensive.

Also, by your reasoning, why should he care if he's pissing you off? Shouldn't you just deal with what he has to say as a by-product of you engaging in this discussion?

Melissia wrote:Good for you and all. But you ain't the only one that's had a hard life, and yours gives you no privileges to be rude to anyone else.

QFT.

Largely, it points to how different people view a game. I consider it a social contract between two players---that are going to spend the next couple of hours of their lives (away from family/friends)---in an attempt to relax and forget how serious life can be.

In that perspective, I would have no issues putting out a smoke (Not that I do!), placing my drink aside, refraining from foul language, refraining from tasteless jokes and attempting to create an air of civility (and even---fun!). Someone asking me to place my drink aside while we play does not equate into religious bigots detonating themselves nor the holocaust. The mind boggles.

Manchu wrote:

Da Boss wrote:Manchu: At some irish tournaments with a bar, you would see a good few people with a pint or something beside them. Stronger stuff is not common.
I have rarely seen anyone really drunk though. Just a pint or two over the course of the day.

I can't call foul on drinking pints at an Irish tournament when no one even gets drunk. Well, can't call foul on anyone being disrespectful that is.

The US is by and large a protestant and "post-protestant" country with a national prohibition law in our not-at-all-distant past. We have a ton of people who grew up with at least the unconscious propaganda (if not the explicit condemnation of many Baptists) that alcohol is a social evil -- I'm thinking DARE and Driver's Ed. here, folks, not just someone's particular church. A helpful rule of thumb is: when you're the only one who's upset, it's unlikely that it's everyone else that has the problem. Similarly, when you're the only one who's drinking, it's not necessarily because everyone else is a prude.

I've got the same line as 76% of the poll respondants. As has been pointed out, the vocal minority are *very* vocal.

@Frazzled: BYOB was his example, not mine.

Bookwrack: You're trolling. Not even a *hint* of anything worthwhile in your post. C'mon, how about an edit to at least *pretend* to do more than troll?

Dashofpepper wrote:Now you're actually starting to piss me off. You have no idea.

And you're pissing me off.

Just because you have to get drunk to get through the day doesn't mean I should have to suffer with smelling your pisswater and dealing with your drunken behavior when all I'm trying to do is enjoy a friendly, competitive, and fun game of Warhammer 40,000.

Meh.

You want to be rude to other people, you got to expect them to be rude back. There's my rude response. I think I'm going to go back to arguing with random about how he's wrong about everything he's ever known. At least that is a bit amusing.

My beliefs say it boils down to this:

Drinking is okay if the venue allows it.

If not, then there is really no argument one way or the other.

So assuming the former, if someone is okay with you drinking, that is fine.

If not, then you can do two things:

1. Be polite and not drink.
2. Be rude and drink.

This is relative towards how they treat you with your drink. If they're respectful towards you about ceasing the drinking, it puts the ball in your court if you want to stop/continue. If they are being holier-than-thou towards you, point out the venue does not stop the activity.

Again, the emphasis is is that this is a game and we are all here to have fun one way or another. Let's try to enjoy each other's company regardless of who we are or what we believe.

Given his contributions so far, him pissing other people off means they get to suck up and deal with it, but anyone daring to say something in disagreement with him? Verboten like you wouldn't believe.

I wouldn't drink during a game because a tournament just not seem like the time or place to me. If my opponent wants to, fine, but if he's acting in a way I have a problem with, and responds to a polite request with the response Dash suggested, I'd be having a quick word with the judges about what the guidelines for booting a player would be.

Dashofpepper wrote:Bookwrack: You're trolling. Not even a *hint* of anything worthwhile in your post. C'mon, how about an edit to at least *pretend* to do more than troll?

For someone who's supposedly not trying to pick fights in this thread, you're failing miserably at not looking like you're trying to pick a fight.

Dashofpepper wrote:

Manchu wrote:

Da Boss wrote:Manchu: At some irish tournaments with a bar, you would see a good few people with a pint or something beside them. Stronger stuff is not common.
I have rarely seen anyone really drunk though. Just a pint or two over the course of the day.

I can't call foul on drinking pints at an Irish tournament when no one even gets drunk. Well, can't call foul on anyone being disrespectful that is.

The US is by and large a protestant and "post-protestant" country with a national prohibition law in our not-at-all-distant past. We have a ton of people who grew up with at least the unconscious propaganda (if not the explicit condemnation of many Baptists) that alcohol is a social evil -- I'm thinking DARE and Driver's Ed. here, folks, not just someone's particular church. A helpful rule of thumb is: when you're the only one who's upset, it's unlikely that it's everyone else that has the problem. Similarly, when you're the only one who's drinking, it's not necessarily because everyone else is a prude.

I've got the same line as 76% of the poll respondants. As has been pointed out, the vocal minority are *very* vocal.

@Frazzled: BYOB was his example, not mine.

Bookwrack: You're trolling. Not even a *hint* of anything worthwhile in your post. C'mon, how about an edit to at least *pretend* to do more than troll?

I still don't see where anyone has said - drinking of any sort is bad. Now I'd call you on offering everyone in a tourney a drink, unless you knew they were over 21. Thats a idfferent situation though.

Melissia wrote:

Dashofpepper wrote:Now you're actually starting to piss me off. You have no idea.

And you're pissing me off.

Just because you have to get drunk to get through the day doesn't mean I should have to suffer with smelling your pisswater and dealing with your drunken behavior when all I'm trying to do is enjoy a friendly, competitive, and fun game of Warhammer 40,000.

And...you're starting to piss me off too? Because you are illiterate and can't put the words that I write together in a sentence coherently? I've never advocated what you're trying to pretend that I am.

Let me try playing this game. Just because you insist on not bathing for a week before showing up at a GT and rolling around in pig filth beforehand doesn't mean that I should have to suffer smelling your intentionally inflicted body odor when all I'm trying to do is enjoy a friendly, competitive and fun game of Warhammer 40,000.

Oh...you never said that you insisted on not bathing a week before a GT? That's strange. Because I didn't say that getting drunk to get through the day is cool either. But you already KNEW that didn't you? Because I've explained that several times, haven't I? So you're really just looking to get a rise, aren't you?


And on that note...there *is* nothing productive going on here, and I'm dangerously close to getting myself in trouble because my tolerance for #*$#^# is much lower than my tolerance for alcohol. So I will bow out. ..!.. (. .) ..!..

Since pointing out a poor understanding of addiction has apparently deeply offended Mr. "grow a thicker skin," already, I think I'll just point out a completely unrelated link.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Narcissistic_personality_disorder

Specifically:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Narcissistic_personality_disorder#DSM-IV-TR_301.81

[edit: I actually intended to edit this post, but for some reason it posted it twice.

Gah. Nevermind.

Just walk away guys and gals. This is getting silly and circular.

MR- Your image is broken.

Dashofpepper wrote:And...you're starting to piss me off too? Because you are illiterate and can't put the words that I write together in a sentence coherently?

You're advocating being a donkey-cave to people who ask you politely to put the beer away for a few minutes while you play a children's board game with eachother involving plastic soldiers going pew pew pew across plastic terrain at plastic fungus-people. I didn't misinterpret anything you said.

Melissia wrote:

Dashofpepper wrote:And...you're starting to piss me off too? Because you are illiterate and can't put the words that I write together in a sentence coherently?

You're advocating being a donkey-cave to people who ask you politely to put the beer away for a few minutes while you play a children's board game with eachother involving plastic soldiers going pew pew pew across plastic terrain at plastic fungus-people. I didn't misinterpret anything you said.

Bingo. It's all about the approach and the response. That being said, Dash is at least consistent in his life view that escalating a minor disagreement to an untenable conflict is a good idea. Got to give him props for being at least being consistent in bringing a howitzer to a verbal fight.

Dashofpepper wrote: That's strange. Because I didn't say that getting drunk to get through the day is cool either. But you already KNEW that didn't you? Because I've explained that several times, haven't I? So you're really just looking to get a rise, aren't you?

Really?

Dashofpepper wrote:Morning drinking is a little much.

My personal least favorite are people who drink the night before, or on Saturday night - such that they are hung over and in a bad mood Saturday or Sunday morning for gaming. People who are hung over are usually the least fun to play against.

I usually start drinking in the afternoon on Saturday, around game 3 after lunch (presuming there are two morning rounds). By the time the first day ends I've got a heady buzz going on, and I stop drinking, go to dinner, drink water, clear my head and am fresh for the next morning. Personally, I rarely drink on Sundays for two day events because of the travel time involved getting back home.

Some people have mentioned that drinking can make you friendlier. There's a lateral statement that holds true as well. Drinking can also raise your douche tolerance. I've seen some raging arguments at GTs. Shouting, yelling, TO interventions....I've never had to sit through any of that myself and am grateful. I *do* often have to put up with minor annoyances. People snatching up their hits instead of misses, measuring from the center or rear of their vehicles instead of the front, then not keeping consistency, eyeballing range, counting too many models under template weapons, claiming cover where none is available, denying cover when it is truly available, loose measurement, extra partial inches, accidentally bumping models into more favorable positions, doing the same to terrain, making up rules, forgetting their own rules, trying to shoot units more than once in a shooting phase....

Subjected to all this on a regular basis, I started calling minute things. Remember page numbers, quoting them, having to rules lawyer to keep people from cheating, even at the little things. These days, I realize that people who do that stuff generally don't have a bat's chance in hell of winning anyway, so I let them do it anyway unless it is egregious. Drinking raises my tolerance for having to deal with those people.

Situation: Opponent is trying to line up an assault against a unit of mine, and thinks he is about 13" away. During his movement, he does the "Measure 6", then remove the tape measure and put models roughly where the 6" mark was" trick to gain some extra distance.

Sober Dash: Dude, put your model back. That's a hell of a lot more than 6". Put your tape measure on the table, LEAVE IT THERE, and move the model up as far as you like, but not beyond the 6".
Drinking Dash: Phew! Those guys are really moving out EXTRA far this turn aren't they? I bet they smell my rum and are trying to poach it. STAY AWAY I SAY!

Situation: Opponent deep-strikes a drop pod with a dreadnought inside it next to a conga line of wyches and prepares to heavy flamer them. He places the template haphazardly, not at the flamer barrel, and doesn't hit as much of the squad as possible because he's trying to also peg their vehicle. He says, "Looks like I have 7 wyches and their raider."

Sober Dash: You mind if I double-check?
Drinking Dash: Coolio, I'll take your word for it.

Situation: Opponent is deep-striking a unit onto the table (or rolling a blast weapon, whatever), and they miss, and scatter 2d6. From eyeballing it and being pretty damned good with depth perception, I can see that the angle is going to scatter into a unit. When my opponent measures out the scatter over his unit, the direction of the tape measure is conveniently not identical to the scatter die, such that he scatters just to the side of the unit he would have mishapped on.

Sober Dash: Uh...that's not where they go. Here, let me help you. Extend your tape measure over the scatter die. Now I'm going to make my perpendicular to your own tape measure and cross your model. And finally, you take your tape measure and draw it perpendicular to mine over your model so that you are moving in the exact correct direction.
Drinking Dash: Phew, you got lucky that time. You know, it helps if you roll the scatter die by the unit - requires a lot less direction and measuring, and I'm all about easy!

I could go on and on. I've run into a *LOT* of this.

Drinking makes it easier for me to tolerate bullgak.

Everyone breathe. I think the general consensus is:

Drinking is fine, don't be drunk.

The lines being drawn are silly honestly. It's the bloody internet. Every step back, break wind, and then giggle, cause you farted

Hulksmash wrote:Everyone breathe. I think the general consensus is:

Drinking is fine, don't be drunk.

The lines being drawn are silly honestly. It's the bloody internet. Every step back, break wind, and then giggle, cause you farted

If no one else is there to smell it, it's wasted.

@Warboss

The noise is still pretty funny though

Suprises me everytime!!!!!

You could always Youtube it.

I mean, they won't get the full effect but at least it won't be a complete waste.

I wonder what would happen if you farted into a beer bottle, rellidded, and handed it to your friend.

Would they know what you just did, assuming you never did anything like that before?

warboss wrote:

Hulksmash wrote:Everyone breathe. I think the general consensus is:

Drinking is fine, don't be drunk.

The lines being drawn are silly honestly. It's the bloody internet. Every step back, break wind, and then giggle, cause you farted

If no one else is there to smell it, it's wasted.

If your concerned about that, try some food from a place called lula kabob. It's good going down, and when the gas does hit, people will be hit two rooms away. Papa Nurgle approved!

Hulksmash wrote:Everyone breathe. I think the general consensus is:

Drinking is fine, don't be drunk.

The lines being drawn are silly honestly. It's the bloody internet. Every step back, break wind, and then giggle, cause you farted

Dude, evidently the slew of pain killers, antibiotics and soup laced dogfood Tbone was on combined in a loathsome stew such that the little bugger was a veritable farting machine Friday night and early Saturday. He made the other weiner dog Rodney run from the room several times.

Frazzled, seriously, a video of that: a Tbone farting and the other dog getting a whiff of it and running from the room would get at >1,000,000 hits on youtube.

For serious.

All I can say is plrease convey my word to Tbone:

"Well played sir, well played"

As long as a non-drinker isn't trying to take the beer from his opponent's hand to discard it, and the drinker isn't shoving alcohol in his non-drinking opponent's face, I can't see why any of this is an issue.

Wolf 11x wrote:As long as a non-drinker isn't trying to take the beer from his opponent's hand to discard it, and the drinker isn't shoving alcohol in his non-drinking opponent's face, I can't see why any of this is an issue.

you may have missed the topic switch, but this thread is now about farting.

Hulksmash wrote:Everyone breathe. I think the general consensus is:

Drinking is fine, don't be drunk.

The lines being drawn are silly honestly. It's the bloody internet. Every step back, break wind, and then giggle, cause you farted

I am extremely offended, could you please put your farts away. Some people here could be addicted to their own farts.

I do not agree with the wording on DoP's response he would give if asked to stop drinking. However I agree with his stance that the opponent has few options other than to request you not to drink so long as the venue allows it. They also have to realize that it is your choice to accept their request and not do it, or continue to drink. There are quite a few legit reasons given so far for people to not want you to drink in front of them. Recovering alchy, kids at table, etc. are all good reasons and myself and most others who plan to drink (maybe not Dash) would be fine with not doing it. However you having a personal issue with drinkers (which some of you clearly do) is not a good enough reason not to drink if it is allowed, and I want to have one. However refusal to play me or trying to get a TO involved when I am clearly nothing more than buzzed and well past drinking age puts that d-bag ball right in your court. Not mine.

Hulksmash wrote:All I can say is plrease convey my word to Tbone:

"Well played sir, well played"

Tbone thanks all his supporters and his human wishes to convey that he continues to recover.

Ysclyth wrote:

Hulksmash wrote:Everyone breathe. I think the general consensus is:

Drinking is fine, don't be drunk.

The lines being drawn are silly honestly. It's the bloody internet. Every step back, break wind, and then giggle, cause you farted

I am extremely offended, could you please put your farts away. Some people here could be addicted to their own farts.

What kind of a creature derives sustenance from its own farts?

Now we are all farty friends again I shall lock the thread.