This is an email that is written with a very heavy heart. Games Workshop undoubtably fed my intial enthusiams for this hobby. I remember entering the old Quayside Cambridge Games Workshop (15 years or so ago, i think) and seeing games of Epic being played, marvelling at the awesome titans, then having a game of Warhammer 40k and I distinctly remember destroying the old cut out card version of theork dreadnought, much to my brothers upset at the time. I was hooked.
Over the years I have been collecting and dropping in and out of the hobby, always taking the time to buy White Dwarf no matter how much I had not been painting/gaming and keeping abreast of the latest models and news.
White dwarf used to be such an event every month, now its just a sales leaflet, pushing whatever overpriced thing you have to at the time. Where have the articles gone, I know your going to claim they are still there but they just aren't and you know they are not. Things like Tale of Four Gamers were fantastic. I stopped buying White Dwarf 2 years ago, I found that a quick flick through in the shop told me nothing more than I would be able to see on the interenet anyway.
I being a retail manager understand completely that in this vicious world of recession times are very very tough and I commend Games Workshop on their contstant development of products in a time where sitting back and not spending and saving money is the more common tactic. I also appreciate that you make vast sums of money on new army releases due to the novelty factor and that you need that rush of sales regularly otherwise you would have gone under, so my appreciation of your efforts is also frustrated by the fact that you did it for your sake rather than ours (the gamer).
Your models have improved so much over the years and the quality of plastics has blown me away. Your price increases over the past ten or so years though have shocked me to my core. Your unbearable and ruthless attempts to squeeze every penny out of customers disgusts me. Your plastics although good do not sadly set you apart in a world where you no longer have the gold plated monopoly that you once enjoyed on the industry. Now with real contendors to your throne rising (Privateer Press, Battlefront Miniatures, Mantic Games, Spartan Games etc etc) all around you. Their products are new and innovating breathing a welcome breath of fresh and in most cases vastly more affordable air through the hobby.
Games Workshop is now becoming the lame dog of the industry, rehashing old products and producing bad rules, that even though very simplistic are so shockingly written and conceived that playing a game becomes so frustrating. Many of your rules can be read in so many ways that its just not fun anymore.
Vallejio and Army Painter have you hands down beaten in the paint supply department, they both produce vastly superior products at a much more agreeable price. Many independent stores sell both GW paint supplys and Army Painter. Why someone would consider buying your can of black spray over a £2 cheaper and better army painter version baffles me. Due to your constant price rises I can only assume that they do not buy yours.
I work for a retail company that gets criticised for ALWAYS being in sale. One thing that baffles me is GW have to my memory NEVER been in sale. I have never seen a promotion or a bargain deal or a buy 5 got 1 free, NOTHING, not a thing given back to the faithful gamers, why in January are you the only preson on the high street not giving a customer a discount?? Going in a GW is painful enough. I have applied to run the Camrbidge GW store before and badly wish I had been given the opputunity because your staff in there are so shockingly out of touch with the real world and the way the deal with and approach customers that its absolutely laughable. I can only think of two people that have worked in the current GW store who went about there business in a way that I though genuinely would appeal to the customer, rather than having the run to the hills/nearest independent retailer as quick as the DM boots would take them.
So your finally going into the world of resin casting, fantastic news. It will allow you to produce yet more beautiful models at a far cheaper outlay for yourselves with the over head and base costs being vastly less than white metal. I would have love to think that the vast price inceases over the years was a steady rise to support the implementation and development of the new process and that once the switchover had been made then we would ALL benefit from some far more affordable models. I have since read a new price list for USA and low and behold GW are at it again.
You shock and amaze me with your complete lack of awareness as to what the hobbyists want and have been wanting and getting (elsewhere) for several years.
GW is not and has not been for many years VALUE FOR MONEY. Your products are being beaten for quality and price by so many companies now. How long can you really last??
I would be very suprised if this email has been read all the way down to hear and not been thrown in the bin with all the other complaints you receive on a daily basis. I would probably fall of my chair, if you actually took the time to reply to!
An excellently worded and written email. Not to piss on your chips or anything but I don't expect you to get any sort of response or recognition from GW though beyond the stock, 'valued customer, thank you for your concerns' style of thing.
Good for you. People will surely be along to tell you it was an exercise in futility. I applaud you for expressing your indignation to the mofos at GW directly.
Frazzled wrote:Wait you think an email means something?
your attitude is understanding yet upsetting. Doing nothing helps in no way at all. If everyone sent a message such as mine then who knows they might just pay some attention!?!!? worth a try surely
Automatically Appended Next Post: Also printed and sent in letter format
It's regularly known that companies ignore emails. They don't take up space and can be easily deleted or wrote responded to by a simple form. It's not as easy to disregard physical mail. Sending an email truly doesn't do anything. Ask the people who have kept shows on the air that were teetering. I advise printing this out and mailing it in by post.
Also, please, please, please USE SPELL CHECK before sending your letter and proof read it carefully before submitting it. Poor spelling and grammar make a bad impression and also make it harder to put your point across. I'm looking at the initial post and well, let's just say there are a few errors.
Flashman wrote:A mass grumble wouldn't hurt. I like the "send a letter every day" idea too. It worked in Shawshank Redemption.
Could you imagine if every active member on just dakka alone sent a letter once a week voicing their complaints? That's the problem. Nobody acts in unison. They ruffle their feathers and throw 10 letters at someone and think it will help. Some top dog at GW will sit at their office desk next Monday and ask how many complaint letters they got since last Monday.
His secretary will say: "Oh we got one from that Luke Wild kid again and a few others."
GW Big Wig: "That's it? So that's like 3 letters this week. How many people happily paid for our products last week and only grumbled to themselves?"
I'm going to jump on this and get all six of my friends to attempt the same. Futile? Maybe, but if they never respond, they have said more then words could.
Greetings, I am a relatively new investor to the GW hobby. Obviously, it does quite
well. I am wondering about the pricing though. I have been to the GW stores, and the pricing seems quite high. Are there plans to raise or lower these prices in the future? I understand that the fan base is the lifeblood of this operation, but this base must not be alienated.
If prices are too high, I fear that many people will become alienated and quit the hobby, and many people will not even join it. Particularly younger children whose parents no doubt fund their Warhammer purchases, considering adult logic i.e.:" All this money for this little piece of metal". Good pricing is necessary for a new fan base.
However, lowering prices too much could very well cause the undesired effects of losing money, despite higher levels of customer happiness. I would not recommend raising the prices much more, the gamers must have faith in Games workshop's commitment to them.
Tell me, what sort of financial overhead does GW have? Are the prices high
due to massive overhead costs? Or just to ensure good profits?
Kirby wrote:You are right to say that if prices are too high people will be alienated. The fact that we have been recruiting new Hobbyists over many, many years, that we are seeing excellent growth around the world with good retention of hobbyists is pretty conclusive proof that they are not. Making miniatures is not a simple process and so our R&D costs are high - you’ll see plenty of detail on this in our financial report (on this web site). Also, our miniatures are the best in the world and we believe in charging premium prices for our premium products and services.
What we are selling is a hobby – not toys and not a pass-time. Committed gamers and collectors and modellers know they get wonderful value for money from Games Workshop products. Far better value, I suggest, than from similar amounts of money spent on meals out, sports events, boozy nights in the pub. Go to the cinema and you can have an hour and a half of fun. Buy Warhammer and you can enjoy it for the rest of your life!
Dodged like a pro. This will only work if there are a significant amount of committed people behind it.
Flashman wrote:A mass grumble wouldn't hurt. I like the "send a letter every day" idea too. It worked in Shawshank Redemption.
Could you imagine if every active member on just dakka alone sent a letter once a week voicing their complaints? That's the problem. Nobody acts in unison.
Indeed, these threads pop up every once in a while usually in response to the latest GW announcement that has hacked us off. That's the problem with the internet really. We kind of vent/blow off steam at each other instead of directing our thoughts at the right people.
I do this kind of thing quite often and it's always nice to see other people doing so as well.
And while the paper vs. email-debate surely has some truth to it, I got some copy pasted responses in the mail as well. The content was the same gak, it was just harder to put in my blog.
BrassScorpion wrote:Also, please, please, please USE SPELL CHECK before sending your letter and proof read it carefully before submitting it. Poor spelling and grammar make a bad impression and also make it harder to put your point across. I'm looking at the initial post and well, let's just say there are a few errors.
Agreed. I found it very hard to read through to the end due to the spelling and grammatical errors. The points are valid but, if your letter doesn't flow, it'll find itself in the bin.
What we are selling is a hobby – not toys and not a pass-time. Committed gamers and collectors and modellers know they get wonderful value for money from Games Workshop products. Far better value, I suggest, than from similar amounts of money spent on meals out, sports events, boozy nights in the pub. Go to the cinema and you can have an hour and a half of fun. Buy Warhammer and you can enjoy it for the rest of your life!
I agree with all that, but if the prices get too high even the most devoted hobbyists will balk and I've started to see this happen more and more the past couple years. I know several life-long hobbyists who have seriously refrained from buying certain kits the past few years due to price probably for the first time in their lives and I find myself doing the same recently as well.
Kirby wrote:Also, our miniatures are the best in the world and we believe in charging premium prices for our premium products and services.
The little toad. If somebody wrote that to me, he'd be getting a strongly worded response. Basically, this much the same as Nike saying we charge £200 for a pair of trainers because our brand adds value, as opposed to a price that reflects the materials, wages and overheads.
And anway, aside from some of their miniatures, nothing GW sells is a premium product.
Phototoxin wrote:Do we want to say that by friday we will all send a letter of complaint to GW about the price increase and/or move to resin and/or Oz/Kiwi problem?
I've been noticing a trend that really does need to be adressed. People are losing their damn minds on GW's facebook page and twitter feed. I've already seen two comments that were arguably death threats. This is not productive.
The Gaming community has been, quite rightly, registering it's displeasure with Games Workshop. Considering the egregious price increases and shipping Embargos that GW is putting in place I totally understand where you are coming from I understand your ire completely.
However, you need to understand that Games Workshop will be disinclined to deal with anyone who is hysterical or rude, no matter how large of a volume of complaints they receive. If you are going to register a complaint on their facebook, twitter, via email or in a written letter please bear in mind that they are going to pay more attention to something that is coherently written and well thought out. Threats, foul langage, and excessive sarcasm do not help our case. Sincerity and honesty very may will. The last thing we want to do is sound like a bunch of self important useless internet trolls bitching without reason.
Games Workshop will just write off anyone who is too rude, too sarcastic, or too glib as being either unworthy of listening to or just some nutball. A calm, rational, and legitimate complaint will be at least listened to.
By all accounts Games Workshop apparently responds best to written letters sent by regular post sent with a return address. A written letter cannot be ignored in quite the same way an e-mail can.
Phototoxin wrote:Do we want to say that by friday we will all send a letter of complaint to GW about the price increase and/or move to resin and/or Oz/Kiwi problem?
Done. Come on everyone. Just copy and paste one of your ordered thoughts into a word document, print and stick it in the post during your lunch break.
BrassScorpion wrote:Also, please, please, please USE SPELL CHECK before sending your letter and proof read it carefully before submitting it. Poor spelling and grammar make a bad impression and also make it harder to put your point across. I'm looking at the initial post and well, let's just say there are a few errors.
Spell checked before I sent it out as letter, did not realise quite how many mistakes, and that was after TWO read throughs lol
So anyone feel like picking a day to do a mass mailing? Anyone willing to actually unify for one coherent thought and put it down on a hand written letter?
Let's start with 1.
I bet we get to 40 before we all start drooling over some new models in June.
Thank you to the people getting on board with this, something needs to be done and we should let them know how we feel. Its taken me 15 mons MAX to do this, everyone can spare that!!
I believe if a Governmet can be toppled due to a facebook post, I believe a half hearted response could be made from sending hand writting/typed letters.
I don't think it should be ONE letter sent out by many, it should be MANY letters sent out by MANY. We all have varying annoyances with GW and should be making them aware of them!
Lord Scythican wrote:So anyone feel like picking a day to do a mass mailing? Anyone willing to actually unify for one coherent thought and put it down on a hand written letter?
Let's start with 1.
I bet we get to 40 before we all start drooling over some new models in June.
Will post mine Friday as someone else suggested. Who's the main bigwig at GW anyway?
I'm not sure if I should participate. I haven't bought a GW-Miniature or kit in over 2 years. I'm still sitting on what I bought when my no-GW store closed down.
Anung Un Rama wrote:I'm not sure if I should participate. I haven't bought a GW-Miniature or kit in over 2 years. I'm still sitting on what I bought when my no-GW store closed down.
Yes but would you still pay for something if you had the means to play?
Yeh I agree, many letters everyday until it stops. Just copy paste the same one, or extra points if it's hand written. I'd be on board, but I'm probably better off using that time to complete my assignments and study for exams.
Edit: Kirby is chairman but not CEO, that's probably someone else.
lukewild1982 wrote:I don't think it should be ONE letter sent out by many, it should be MANY letters sent out by MANY. We all have varying annoyances with GW and should be making them aware of them!
That is not what I meant. I meant, let's start with the number one. Add one to that if you are willing to send a letter. This is futile unless there are a couple thousand people who are willing to write a letter and mail it to them.
So basically if you are willing to do this, (which you have), then you would put a "2" in your post. If Nüb did it, he would put a 3. My point is, I bet this number reaches around 40 (a representation that there are 40 people willing to send a letter). However I bet this undertaking will also drop off as soon as some new models are released.
Me? I am typing up something to send to them now. I plan on hand writing it after I have it typed and then I am going to mail it to them.
If you are serious about this, we need a list of complaints that each letter should address.
Then 3. I and four other friends will also write letters. They feel the same way as I do, and the rest of dakka. What needs to happen is from the sothern half, they need to not only write about the pice but the lack of getting afordable models from LGS.
Phototoxin wrote:Do we want to say that by friday we will all send a letter of complaint to GW about the price increase and/or move to resin and/or Oz/Kiwi problem?
You need to focus on a single, essentially important issue. The move from metal is a done deal. Prices can and do fluctuate. If the main issue is the price increase, focus on that, be polite and stick to the one topic. Unfocused complaints about multiple issues rarely make a salient point.
Lord Scythican wrote:So anyone feel like picking a day to do a mass mailing? Anyone willing to actually unify for one coherent thought and put it down on a hand written letter?
Let's start with 1.
I bet we get to 40 before we all start drooling over some new models in June.
Will post mine Friday as someone else suggested. Who's the main bigwig at GW anyway?
So everyone willing to send out a letter Friday? I am good with that. Anyone want to take bets as to how many gets mailed?
also sadly I dont expect anyone to get more than the usual silence or generic reply..but the more mail they get the less likely they will be able to bury their heads in the sand.
or you could do something even more effective which I have finally chosen to do and plan to stick by.
STOP BUYING THEIR PRODUCTS NEW ,that will hurt them alot more if many people do it.
And if you still need your addiction sated, try ebay/second hand!
redeyed wrote:try a written letter guys, much more effective.
also sadly I dont expect anyone to get more than the usual silence or generic reply..but the more mail they get the less likely they will be able to bury their heads in the sand.
or you could do something even more effective which I have finally chosen to do and plan to stick by.
STOP BUYING THEIR PRODUCTS NEW ,that will hurt them alot more if many people do it.
And if you still need your addiction sated, try ebay/second hand!
But this is just a band aide on a broken leg. I want the product I enjoy to be successful. I want them to make money and invest it back into the product. If we speak with out wallets, eventually the game will fail and then we will have nothing.
redeyed wrote:try a written letter guys, much more effective.
also sadly I dont expect anyone to get more than the usual silence or generic reply..but the more mail they get the less likely they will be able to bury their heads in the sand.
or you could do something even more effective which I have finally chosen to do and plan to stick by.
STOP BUYING THEIR PRODUCTS NEW ,that will hurt them alot more if many people do it.
And if you still need your addiction sated, try ebay/second hand!
One solution to the problem shouldn't create another. If people stop buying from their local game store and put them out of business, whether they are GW stores or independent stores, it hurts a lot more people than just GW. The idea is not to drive stores or GW out of business, that would be counterproductive. Pressure to sales will get noticed, but don't punish your local vendor or you won't be buying hobby supplies by any manufacturer there any longer.
thats not quite the case Brass, although I should have been a bit more specific.
I cant say I care to much about a GW store as its part of the problem + the prices.. THE PRICES!! I just cannot justify paying them anymore..and the best way to vote is with ones wallet!!
But I still support my local Independant games store by buying my hobby supplies there, even if I can get them cheaper elsewhere. I would be very sad to see them go under so I do my best to help that not happen!
Theyve also recently begun stocking warmachine which I buy locally to!!
Be respectful and polite.
*Sarcasim and rudeness to a minimum if none at all! *
Handheld letter, wether it be hand written or typed!
Focus on one topic! Stick to it.
Clean grammar and spelling, spell check is your friend!
Anything else?
Has any one attempted to take this to warseer ,40k, or BoLS?
redeyed wrote:thats not quite the case Brass, although I should have been a bit more specific.
I cant say I care to much about a GW store as its part of the problem + the prices.. THE PRICES!!
But I still support my local Independant games store by buying my hobby supplies there, even if I can get them cheaper elsewhere.
Theyve also recently begun stocking warmachine which I buy locally to!!
Even so, not buying a new release sends a message that we don't like the new release (far from the case with the new DE stuff). Far better would be for everyone to stop buying one of the core products such as Space Marines. Though I'm not sure how likely it is such a protest would happen. You can't stop the 12 year olds after all
redeyed wrote: I cant say I care to much about a GW store as its part of the problem + the prices.. THE PRICES!! I just cannot justify paying them anymore..and the best way to vote is with ones wallet!!
But this isn't really fixing the problem. It is like my magic the gathering example. If I stop buying their cards then they are that much closer to failing as a game due to the lack of people not wanting to play the game anymore. I want to play MtG but I can't afford it anymore. However no one is willing to unify with me and express their concerns to Wizards of the Coast. Instead, they choose to drop off like flies till their is nothing left.
The worse thing people can do in a situation like this is to quit one at a time without letting someone know what the problem is. If I quit playing warhammer tomorrow, there will someone to take my place who is obvious to past transgressions by GW.
The only way to fix this is to send a message. Thousands of them. Nobody is willing to do that.
I feel like there are, if you look there have been, if you look there are about 5 different topics in disscussions and rumors trying to find way to cope. However there needs to be a unified response. People are willing but you must show that it only take 15 min to do and could surely pay off if enough people do it! I've already got the lads together and ready tbh.
Nüb wrote:I feel like there are, if you look there have been, if you look there are about 5 different topics in disscussions and rumors trying to find way to cope. However there needs to be a unified response. People are willing but you must show that it only take 15 min to do and could surely pay off if enough people do it! I've already got the lads together and ready tbh.
It is mostly ranting. A few of them might actually quit, but there will be more gamers to replace them. That's why I had that little comment about the secretary and the big wig. 3 or 4 people might send letters this week, while thousands will buy models. Someone needs to start a facebook page or a group of some kind. Get all these complainers together and unified for once.
My point is that they give nothing back to us, they theoretically punish us for our loyalty. Never once has Games Workshop done a sale/promotion of any sort, am I correct in thinking this? Anyone remember anything of the sort?
Your're right, but I think we are gonna need to focus on the prices, because that's our biggest problem. Can you guys please tell me the replies you get to your letters (if you do)? Thanks
lukewild1982 wrote:Also the epic failure that is White Dwarf now. I used to love that mag, now its simply a pile of crap!
I'd suggest you look at any magazine out there.
White Dwarf is not alone in this. Print is a dying medium, and almost every magazine excepting those with a huge financial backing and that can afford to hemorrhage money, and almost every single one is full of poorly written articles, shiny pictures, and advertisements/endorsements.
they used to do promotions when stores opened or random buy 2 get a 3rd free offers
Heck they even had a big sale once or twice 8 years ago
also with white dwarf when you subscribed you got something free ( this was about 7 years ago though lol) now you subscribe and you have TO PAY for the special model lol.
now its...price rise...price rise...oh I forgot price rise lol.
oh @ Kanluwen I recently had a peek at the privateerpress magazine while in a shop today (forget its name). While it is similar price to WD it was glossy, larger, had ALOT more hobby related bits such as rules etc and while it did have adverts there was nowhere near as many.
I will make a facebook page willingly, I need imput however. What kind of page shall it be? Organization? Cause and community or just a regular facebook?
*FIX*
I don't know how long the name can be but im almost sure we can switch it later. I have it as 'Games Workshop abusive twords loyal Players' sound alright?
Any ideas, by the way, it's best not to use the words 'price increase', because that implies that we want a stop to the price increases, and not a lowering of the prices.
lukewild1982 wrote:Also the epic failure that is White Dwarf now. I used to love that mag, now its simply a pile of crap!
I'd suggest you look at any magazine out there.
White Dwarf is not alone in this. Print is a dying medium, and almost every magazine excepting those with a huge financial backing and that can afford to hemorrhage money, and almost every single one is full of poorly written articles, shiny pictures, and advertisements/endorsements.
I am not really sure thats an excuse for it is it, also I completely disagree with it. I often buy photography magazines and the occasional xbox one and funnily enough they are full of ARTICLES, yeah there are adverts that is to be expected but not 2 articles in one mag and the entire rest of the mag devoted to hoaring out the latest product
lukewild1982 wrote:Also the epic failure that is White Dwarf now. I used to love that mag, now its simply a pile of crap!
I'd suggest you look at any magazine out there.
White Dwarf is not alone in this. Print is a dying medium, and almost every magazine excepting those with a huge financial backing and that can afford to hemorrhage money, and almost every single one is full of poorly written articles, shiny pictures, and advertisements/endorsements.
I am not really sure thats an excuse for it is it, also I completely disagree with it. I often buy photography magazines and the occasional xbox one and funnily enough they are full of ARTICLES, yeah there are adverts that is to be expected but not 2 articles in one mag and the entire rest of the mag devoted to hoaring out the latest product
The xbox magazines are just as, if not worse, low quality as White Dwarf is now.
But really. Are you expecting them to do more than having painting articles or game reports featuring the newest product?
redeyed wrote:try a written letter guys, much more effective.
also sadly I dont expect anyone to get more than the usual silence or generic reply..but the more mail they get the less likely they will be able to bury their heads in the sand.
or you could do something even more effective which I have finally chosen to do and plan to stick by.
STOP BUYING THEIR PRODUCTS NEW ,that will hurt them alot more if many people do it.
And if you still need your addiction sated, try ebay/second hand!
But this is just a band aide on a broken leg. I want the product I enjoy to be successful. I want them to make money and invest it back into the product. If we speak with out wallets, eventually the game will fail and then we will have nothing.
No it won't.
You were just the one busting chops that the letter writing campaign wouldn't work. Combined with a general boycott, the company will do the smart thing and go where the money is.
I/E either pay attention to what the major event was that !@#$'d off the fans, or they deserver to fall by the wayside and you take your business elsewhere.
You don't want them to be successful if the only thing they are doing is !@#$ing you off.
Speak with your wallet and smack them on the face. If the game fails, ( which it won't.) then it was crap to begin with and deserved to fail.
Honestly though? We are talking about Warhammer and 40K. These damn games have been around over 25 years. They didn't do that by being consistant crap. They took the road to heresy a step at a time, and its culmulated to this point where they think they know what's best when clearly they are talking the preverbial piss.
Let them learn the error of thier ways by taking $$$ out of thier pockets.
lukewild1982 wrote:Also the epic failure that is White Dwarf now. I used to love that mag, now its simply a pile of crap!
I'd suggest you look at any magazine out there.
White Dwarf is not alone in this. Print is a dying medium, and almost every magazine excepting those with a huge financial backing and that can afford to hemorrhage money, and almost every single one is full of poorly written articles, shiny pictures, and advertisements/endorsements.
I am not really sure thats an excuse for it is it, also I completely disagree with it. I often buy photography magazines and the occasional xbox one and funnily enough they are full of ARTICLES, yeah there are adverts that is to be expected but not 2 articles in one mag and the entire rest of the mag devoted to hoaring out the latest product
The xbox magazines are just as, if not worse, low quality as White Dwarf is now.
But really. Are you expecting them to do more than having painting articles or game reports featuring the newest product?
Even GW isn't that stupid.
Your point of just saying what I have said is wrong hold absolutely nothing with me as its just not the case. I have read plenty of articles that are prefectly fine and tell you what you want to know. I am not going to a 360 mag looking for pullitzer winning material in the field of journalism. Articles they have, white dwarf does not THATS my point. Also yes I do expect them to have more articles because you know what thats pretty much what it was before. You used to get loads of things in white dwarf now basically nothing!!
I can only assume you work for the White Dwarf team for you blindly faithful defence of it!
Look at white dwarfs from around 2004, they had some nice conversions, now they would do none of that, 'cos the little kid mights say, can you buy this conversion'
I was thinking of something like this but the last paragraph is a bit to 'whineseer' for my liking
Dear Sir or Madam,
I am writing to you to register complaint at your proposed pricing increases. As a collector and player of most Games Workshop games for this past 15 years I am both disappointed and angered to hear of a simultaneous price increase due to the shift to ‘Citadel Finecast’. Indeed if this is a resin-like material then it is cheaper to acquire and your production costs should be cheaper. You may have additional overheads at present while the change is implemented, but despite being cheaper in the long run you have chosen, once again, to pass this cost onto the consumer.
I realise that some changes do indeed justify increased cost, however it seems as if there has been an almost regular, annual, increase in prices. Your competition is able to produce similar miniatures, substantially cheaper and be a successful business. While your plastic kits are indeed some of the best currently being manufactured, I am afraid to tell you they are not good value for money. Armies need more miniatures to become viable due to points re-structuring, lack of support for older codices, imbalanced codices and a generally hazy rule-set do not stand in your favour.
Despite marketing yourselves as a miniatures company you must realise that the games are what sell the majority of your miniatures. While semi-official, almost pseudo-casual guidelines, used to be serviceable in the 80’s and early 90’s the world has moved on. When, as a player I play a game I want to know the rules, clearly. I want my army to be supported. When you market an army, we as players are trusting that you will support it. If you update Necrons or Witch Hunters why should I buy them - the miniatures alone are not worth the cost, and I have no guarantee of support.
A game which appeals to the pre/post adolescent as the new customer base...
3rd edition - @ $200 to build a viable army
5th edition - through size increases (discounts in codex) and general increase in point total (1500 now averaging 1850 for a norm game) and cost increase.
@ $500 to build a viable army
200 to 500 is acceptable but add to the fact that you have a game changing event (new codex release) every 3 to 4 months and what you do is disappoint and later PO and finally cause people to abandon the game when your $500 investment gets invalidated at least once per year.
Now I am an older gamer with $$ but some 20-something who enjoys it but has a lot less discretionary income is going to drop the hobby or go to an alternative outlet that is more affordable.
lukewild1982 wrote:Also the epic failure that is White Dwarf now. I used to love that mag, now its simply a pile of crap!
I'd suggest you look at any magazine out there.
White Dwarf is not alone in this. Print is a dying medium, and almost every magazine excepting those with a huge financial backing and that can afford to hemorrhage money, and almost every single one is full of poorly written articles, shiny pictures, and advertisements/endorsements.
I am not really sure thats an excuse for it is it, also I completely disagree with it. I often buy photography magazines and the occasional xbox one and funnily enough they are full of ARTICLES, yeah there are adverts that is to be expected but not 2 articles in one mag and the entire rest of the mag devoted to hoaring out the latest product
The xbox magazines are just as, if not worse, low quality as White Dwarf is now.
But really. Are you expecting them to do more than having painting articles or game reports featuring the newest product?
Even GW isn't that stupid.
Your point of just saying what I have said is wrong hold absolutely nothing with me as its just not the case. I have read plenty of articles that are prefectly fine and tell you what you want to know. I am not going to a 360 mag looking for pulitzer winning material in the field of journalism. Articles they have, white dwarf does not THATS my point. Also yes I do expect them to have more articles because you know what thats pretty much what it was before. You used to get loads of things in white dwarf now basically nothing!!
Yeah, okay. I think you completely failed your reading tests.
I can only assume you work for the White Dwarf team for you blindly faithful defence of it!
Clearly I didn't say that "it's not just White Dwarf that's a crummy excuse for a magazine now".
Clearly.
Now I'd suggest when you want to have a grown-up conversation, you come back and talk to me.
You were just the one busting chops that the letter writing campaign wouldn't work. Combined with a general boycott, the company will do the smart thing and go where the money is.
I/E either pay attention to what the major event was that !@#$'d off the fans, or they deserver to fall by the wayside and you take your business elsewhere.
You don't want them to be successful if the only thing they are doing is !@#$ing you off.
Speak with your wallet and smack them on the face. If the game fails, ( which it won't.) then it was crap to begin with and deserved to fail.
Honestly though? We are talking about Warhammer and 40K. These damn games have been around over 25 years. They didn't do that by being consistant crap. They took the road to heresy a step at a time, and its culmulated to this point where they think they know what's best when clearly they are talking the preverbial piss.
Let them learn the error of thier ways by taking $$$ out of thier pockets.
I was just trying to be realistic. I can't help it. I am pessimistic by nature. This exact same thread has probably been posted 10,000 times on the internet in the last decade. A few people will write letters. A few will quit. By the end of the week they will all be replaced with more people.
You speak with your wallet and the game suffers. Buying online, buying used, etc. is probably some of the reasons why GW has raised their prices.
Unification by thousands of people is the only way and frankly I don't think there is more than 100 who are willing to unify.
BUT I will say this. I hope that I am proven wrong. Something needs to change. GW needs to know they are risking a significant portion of their fanbase. I really hope something could be put together to show them this, but I still don't think it will happen.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
iPwned wrote:Edit: Ninja'd
Nüb wrote:
However it needs to stay on topic, the point is, writing several letters, if not a template letter so every one can add flavor, we just need some one whom is decent at writing such a thing.
<YourAddress>
<DateOfWritingLetter>
Games Workshop
Willow Road
Lenton
Nottingham
NG7 2WS
Dear <NameOfGamesWorkshopEmployee>,
I am writing to inform you of how displeased I am with the new pricing structure that has been recently announced. I have been playing <GameSystems> since <Date> but now I am begging to feel that I will no longer be able to justify the costs of continuing. For instance, consider <ProductYouLikeButIsTooExpensive>, I would love to include <ProductYouLikeButIsTooExpensive> in my <FavoriteArmy> but its cost of <NewProductCost> places it beyond what I can spend on <GameSystem> at this time.
<OptionalSection>
The current trend of annual price increases reminds me of <GameSystemThatDidSomethingSimillar>. <Publisher> <DidSomethingSimilar> which led to me <DoingSomething>.
</OptionalSection>
While I love <FavoriteGWGameSystem> and have spent <MeasureOfTime> building, converting, painting, and gaming with it, I feel the day approaching where I will have to leave <FavoriteGWGameSystem> behind and take up something like <CompetingProduct>.
Thank you for your time and Consideration.
Sincerely,
<YourName>
So for instance, I were to write Jervis today I might write:
12 Shoggoth Way
R'Lyeh
May 17, 2011
Dear Mr. Jervis Johnson,
I am writing to inform you of how displeased I am with the new pricing structure that has been recently announced. I have been playing Warhammer 40,000 since July of 2008, but now I am begging to feel that I will no longer be able to justify the costs of continuing. For instance, consider the Necron Battle Force, I am looking to expand my Necron army ahead of the rumoured codex release this year, but its cost of $105(USD) represents an increase of slightly over 16% compared to last year. While it would be significantly more simple to buy new models, I will instead be purchasing the models I want second hand to help cut costs.
The current trend of annual price increases reminds me of Magic: The Gathering. Wizards of the Coast began releasing an new core set every year in addition to their typical three expansions. Any card that is no longer printed in a core set or in one of the current year's expansions may not be used in the most popular game formats. This priced me out of their market. I sold off all of the cards I owned and used the money to purchase one of the Realm of Battle and terrain bundles that was available when Planetstrike was released.
While I love Warrhammer 40K, and have spent many hours over the past three years building, converting, painting, and gaming with it, I feel the day approaching where I will have to do the same thing I did with Magic, and find another game system.
What is their e-mail address? I checked the website, but I think that one is just for orders BTW myself and 4 others have written letters in a coherent and well thought out manner
Toastedandy wrote:What is their e-mail address? I checked the website, but I think that one is just for orders BTW myself and 4 others have written letters in a coherent and well thought out manner
I haven't found one besides the order email address.
From what I can tell, videogame magazines have infos and pictures of new stuff that sometimes won't hit the web for a week or two. Often they get inclusive insight into a new game.
But we don't have to change the hobby. Just look at NoQuarter. New rules every month, to get people excited for upcoming releases. The only exciting thing about the WD these days is the teaser page for the next month.
DAMN price rise again.Resin costs should be cheaper than metals yet they are going to up the prices again.we just had a raise in january(uk)and now this.Games Workshop is taking the piss out of its customers and i can't justify paying what i do for what im getting.Alas its maybe time for me to try another company.
Got an automated reply from the customer service team -
Hi,
Thank you for your mail to the Customer Service Team.
Whilst we try to answer most mails within 48 hours, sometimes this is not possible due to busy periods.
If your request is urgent then, please be aware that you can contact us on (0044) 0 115 914 0000 and the Customer Service team will be able to help you further.
Our opening times are 10am to 6pm Monday to Saturday and closed on Sundays.
Got an automated reply from the customer service team -
Hi,
Thank you for your mail to the Customer Service Team.
Whilst we try to answer most mails within 48 hours, sometimes this is not possible due to busy periods.
If your request is urgent then, please be aware that you can contact us on (0044) 0 115 914 0000 and the Customer Service team will be able to help you further.
Our opening times are 10am to 6pm Monday to Saturday and closed on Sundays.
I have sent a customer complaint type email to this address and got a response (following the above automated response), but the focus here should be on posted letters not emails.
I am up for sending out a handwritten letter on Friday. Since my semester is over, I can spend some time writing out an eloquent letter. Note, I'm not using the term "eloquent" in a sarcastic matter, I really do mean it.
I'll be posting a sample of what I've written so far in an hour or so.
I'm onboard. A lot of my anger stems from their pressure on the retailers. I will send 1 letter a day the first week, 2 the second, 4 the third, 8 the fifth....
Funnily enough I just sent a message to Tom earlier asking him about GW's policy about Specialist Games & whether or not GW didn't support/make boxed sets for them due to a lack of demand or if there was another reason. If he doesn't reply over the next week or so I'll be sending a letter for sure. I think there is a clear link between the lack of Specialist Game support (by us as hobbyists as well as by Games Workshop) & the lack of variety (and words) in White Dwarf. It's not that I feel the articles are that bad, but there's less of them and its just full of Warhammer and 40k, a bit of painting, BATTLE REPORT!, a Jervis thought & ads - repeat.
I think Lukewild1982 is doing the right thing in trying to voice his concerns & thoughts directly to GW (even though I disagree with parts of it). I don't know why people don't try and engage with Games Workshop in a more positive manner by sending them emails/letters etc. I'd be surprised if they'd listen to one that was just full of hate and abuse - especialy as they are still making profit (after all would you?), but I think they would be more likely to one that is written out of genuine concern for the hobby the writer clearly cares about (some of us at any rate ).
I know that after being on here for a while, and looking elsewhere, there is so much negative & angry thoughts and posts on or about GW and how they have evolved into more of a corporate machine than a hobby company, and that many of these are written with passion & conviction - yet I have never heard of the same passion & conviction to be used to try and get GW to listen to such opinions.
I also know many people are prepared to (if they haven't already) abandon GW games and move onto other things. I'm not willing to do so just that yet as I believe (perhaps naively or stupidly) as hobbyists and customers we can have a vital role to change all the things people often vocally protest about, no matter how small or great. I'd rather try and make a change than say it & the thought of a using a Warcaster over a Phoenix Lord hasn't exactly got me excited just as yet. I know that if anything like the campaign I've started for Warhammer Quest (and all Specialist Games) is to succeed it would take a co-ordinated effort by hobbyists & fans world-wide to make their voices be heard & to get what we want as customers. Sadly a lot of people seem too negative to even consider that such a simple thing could work. I just feel that if enough of us demand it - they'll be more likely to supply it than if we did nothing other than argue amongst ourselves.
If you want your voice to be heard in a more official capacity then buy a Share, at least then you'll be given the chance to express your concerns directly to members of the board, and other shareholders, rather than at sites like Dakka all the time. The chances are you've already spent a lot on GW product over the years so what's another 400-500p?
I believe the only way of doing anything to make GW change for the better is to be more political. If people feel that strongly about GW's treatment of them, White Dwarf, Specialist Games or whatever else, then organise petitions, sit down protests in Stores (and make sure you film/photograph them and send them around the internet) or else organise a protest at GWHQ & constantly send letters demanding greater product variety & better co-ordinated releases etc...or else stop playing GW games & don't comment on any thread about them - erase them from your mind as if they were a bad dream.
If all the people on Dakka & other forums who had issues with GW did send letters or hold a mass protest at a co-ordinated time, they'd need a snow shovel to get the letters (and the people) off the floor. Nerd-Rage Against the Machine if you feel that strongly about it & take the power back or else spare the people that still enjoy the hobby and GW products your pointless thoughts (and - I'm sorry to say - they are just that unless you follow them with some form of meaningful action).
Sorry for the long post people, but that's everything I have to say on the subject
I had no idea this would get such an enthusiatic reaction from people who are open minded and see the need for change
Shame some people are really narrow minded and seem to talk absolutely no sense, and try and put things down for the sake of it, mentioning no names of course cough cough Kanluwen cough
Kirby wrote:Also, our miniatures are the best in the world and we believe in charging premium prices for our premium products and services.
The little toad. If somebody wrote that to me, he'd be getting a strongly worded response. Basically, this much the same as Nike saying we charge £200 for a pair of trainers because our brand adds value, as opposed to a price that reflects the materials, wages and overheads.
And anway, aside from some of their miniatures, nothing GW sells is a premium product.
Meh. Apple have been doing this for 5 years and it seems to work for them. iCrap is at least a 25% mark up in price for the logo.
Charging more for product that is 'better'* is how business works.
* Better, in this case, may be subjective. For minis it almost certainly is. For computers, there's 'better' machines in terms of raw specs, but Apple makes up for it and provides value (to some people) based on user experience, customer support, etc.
Here is one I sent on to the "talk to tom" thingy.
"Hello Tom,
Just wanted to say that, while I am an avid fan of 40k (all the army books I own are my staple bed-time reading), I am slowly becoming...upset by your prices. Now, I know that what you guys produce is of the highest quality, BUT, consider this: I have been toying with the idea of starting a 2,000 point Dark Eldar army in addition to my Work in Progress 2,000 point Tau army. However, when I added up the cost of this army, I realized that I could not afford it. $800 USD is a lot for a 20 something college graduate, even though I have a lot of expendable income. I have face the same dilemma with Warhammer Fantasy Battle, namely, I have wanted to add a unit of 40 Savage Orcs to my 3,000 point Orcs and Goblins army, But, once again, I balked at the price. I really cannot afford $140 USD for a unit of 40 plastic soldiers!
So, to get to the point; upon reading your latest Final Half Year report, and I noticed that your sales are down by 4%. This is worrying to me, as I know a lot of people who have stopped buying because of the prices that are charged. I can only say that you can expect to see sales go down even further if you continue too raise prices. All I suggest is to keep the prices the way they are at the moment, and maybe even decrease the prices by 10%, and you can expect to see sales either level out, or go up by 1-2%.
Sadly, I am forced to buy my Games Workshop product second hand, or from discount stores. And that saddens me, because I love your games and their miniatures, but I cannot afford to pay your prices. It is the same with everybody else I know that is a fan of GW.
And, one final thing; I know a lot of your sales come from 10-16 year old children with rich parents. These children tend to buy a lot of your stuff in a short period of time, and then end up forgetting all about it. In the past, I have observed that the parents of these children where willing to pay for these products, just to satiate the child. Now, however, I see parents balking at the prices on your figures. I have seen many a parent out right refuse to buy their child a $100 Baneblade, or a $25 Ork Warboss. This is worrying, as a majority of you sales tend to come from these types of people, and now that customer base is drying up because of the prices.
Now, I know that it costs money to make these figure and to run the website and pay your employees. I just don't understand how the overhead can make it necessary to charge so much for your models.
I will just have to not start that Dark Eldar army I have always wanted.
With a heavy heart,
Sincerely
)My name("
Now, I just need to start sending letters to the GW headquarters in the USA.
ALSO! I have a good idea: if we really wanna make an impact, we should all to get everybody in our FLGS and game groups to send polite, calm letters, hand written letters to GW. Say 1 per person in your group in the first week, 2 in the second, 4 in the third, 8 in the 4th, and so on.
Better yet, combine this with sending the same amount of emails to all the GW related addresses you can find, and I think we have got something going here, baby!
Your comments
by Games Workshop on Wednesday, May 18, 2011 at 10:35am
Hi everyone,
Well, we can see that there are quite a few of you with strong feelings about several issues, and the threads have gone a little crazy. We’re sorry many of you feel frustrated. We have read all of your comments and because we (the web dudes) don’t have the power to act on any of them, be assured that we have passed your comments on to the higher levels of management in GW.
We want to continue posting pictures of your fantastic miniatures, and link to hobby related items. We would like future threads to remain relevant to the topic in question, so everyone else can have their voice heard and enjoy the discussions about the hobby we all love.
We’ve got your comments both in this thread and on those older posts, which will remain open for you to carry on the conversation there – please, feel absolutely free to do so, we will indeed read them. But in any new threads, we want to celebrate the creative efforts of others. Any comments that stray off topic will be removed.
Just remember that we must remove any strong language and abusive users, in consideration of our youngest fans.
I've tried to write a sensible letter, however I just can't find any tactful way of putting it. The crux of the matter is a GW management's lack of respect to their customers. As attitudes of management trickle down, this has saddly affected them on all levels.
1. Games Workshop truly believes that their customer base will believe ANY excuse that they put out. They also don't believe that their customer base has the ability (and or will) to debunk their claims. They also seemed to be trained to give out the same responses, even if the answers are incorrect or debunked by easily available information. It has gotten to the point where all their releases are starting to sound like:
"Sorry guys, we've had to issue a price correction on all the codexes because the lisencing fees for using the letter "a" has gone up. We have no choice but to pass this along to consumers."
2. This blackout of information. It not only frustrates the gamer base, but puts their front line employees in a bad position, as unintuitively, they don't know anything more than us. This has the result of creating frustration in the retail staff. Recently, I was in a GW store and inquired about availablitly of product had been discontinued and was rumoured to be going to "resin". The manager barely stopped short of calling me a idiot for believing "unfounded internet rumour" and insisted that no products were going to resin. When I challenged his assertion by saying that my FLGS had received a list of items that they could not restock, he basically insinuated that my information was incorrect and that either I was a liar or that my FLGS was a liar.
Needless to say, I didn't make any orders. This could have been resolved by providing their staff with proper information AND by changing their corporate view that customers are idiots.
I did not participate in the online petition, GW boycott, etc. as I felt they did little if anything to bring attention to the problems/issues at hand. However, it escaped me how simple it is to write and snail-mail a complaint letter that wasn't filled with vitriol but was respectful and concerned. I know that our elected officials do receive them and count one letter as 100 voters opinions. Imagine if we sent bags and bags of the non-deletable snail mail letters! Email is too easy to ignore. Human nature, being naturally curious, tends to want to "open the envelope to see what's inside" vs. conveniently hitting the delete email command on a keyboard.
I just wrote a complaint letter last night and dropped it off in the mail this morning. We'll see what kind of response I get.
keezus wrote:I've tried to write a sensible letter, however I just can't find any tactful way of putting it. The crux of the matter is a GW management's lack of respect to their customers. As attitudes of management trickle down, this has saddly affected them on all levels.
1. Games Workshop truly believes that their customer base will believe ANY excuse that they put out. They also don't believe that their customer base has the ability (and or will) to debunk their claims. They also seemed to be trained to give out the same responses, even if the answers are incorrect or debunked by easily available information. It has gotten to the point where all their releases are starting to sound like:
"Sorry guys, we've had to issue a price correction on all the codexes because the lisencing fees for using the letter "a" has gone up. We have no choice but to pass this along to consumers."
2. This blackout of information. It not only frustrates the gamer base, but puts their front line employees in a bad position, as unintuitively, they don't know anything more than us. This has the result of creating frustration in the retail staff. Recently, I was in a GW store and inquired about availablitly of product had been discontinued and was rumoured to be going to "resin". The manager barely stopped short of calling me a idiot for believing "unfounded internet rumour" and insisted that no products were going to resin. When I challenged his assertion by saying that my FLGS had received a list of items that they could not restock, he basically insinuated that my information was incorrect and that either I was a liar or that my FLGS was a liar.
Needless to say, I didn't make any orders. This could have been resolved by providing their staff with proper information AND by changing their corporate view that customers are idiots.
Here is the basis of writing a business letter. I picked one example from many that are out there. This ones from Perdue.
You have two direct, points here. Start with that. DOn't carry on any more then a page or so. SAVE it, and keep it for the next 5 letters you send them with similer or different issues. Leave the letter to one or two issues. and give them the opportunity to respond.
Crank out about three and watch the fireworks. If they don't contact you, send two or three more, and call it a day. You put in the effort, they gave you an answer, one way or the other.
It's as simple as that.
Don't expect to have anything other then your letter sent to them, because that is just how it works. It is your letter, with the ten thousand other ones that will get the attention, because they say the same thing. NOT you personally.
Don't fall in love with the plan, though. As of now, you add to the letter writing, not buying anything from them and let them feel it for a quarter or two. If not, then they don't get any money again. The reasoning behind the price increase is precisly because people are not buying so much. THEY either are ignoring that fact, or are being misled by someone in thier organization to that effect. Put in amongst the letter-
How much you spend on GW products, WHAT exactly the issue is. What you want done about it.
If it's just to b!@#$, then forget it. Your getting nothing.
Tell them something to the effect of how you wrote your two points above, 1. I am displeased with the lack of foresight, I don't have a way to guage how much the new whatever is going to cost if I don't even know what is being released. Add in there that you feel you are being purposly misled or something to that effect. Pretty much what you wrote here as your basic idea with a couple of personal results because of thier decisions.
BAsicly, a no s!@# reason why you want to contact them and what they did wrong.
It is very true what is being said, as i have recently started playing Dystopian wars, and over half of the club i play at never buy 40k, and on a rare occasion play it. Shortly i will be joining their ranks.
I wish i wasnt, but i cant afford the prices to be competative with the mass of veichles you need to buy to get there.
Btw may be a stupid question but i cant work out how to comment of that facebook thread?
Australian admirer and long time W40k/WHFB supporter here,
I would like to take this opportunity to sincerely thank you for your recent GW trademark masterstroke in tactical astartes style marketing (frome here on I'll be referring to it as operation Financial Rain). I feel that the embargo (Financial Rain) policy you have forced upon independent resellers of games workshop products can only improve the industry.
Discount services such as Maelstrom were facilitating the continuance of a hobby for people that I really felt did not deserve to participate. It put a common face on an upper class hobby. Personally, I know that roughly a third of the people regularly participating in the hobby at my local gaming store will thanfully no longer be supporting games workshop. This is a good thing for the more dedicated souls such as myself. This group includes Hordes of university and school students, busy parents and younger children that will thankfully no longer be the future of this grand hobby.
The contempt I held for these "casual" gamers was without bounds and burns hotter than the Flames of War. I can now, however, rest assured that I will no longer be plagued by the constant requests for army advice, "friendly" games and the general mind numbing banter expected of me from these individuals. The wargaming hobby (better known to the educated as the GamesWorkshop Wargaming hobby) is better off.
Of course people will complain that this embargo (In retrospect I feel that rather than Financial Rain, operation Descent of Sales is a more apt term) is unfair. The web forums may and by all accounts ARE, uniting in their outrage and seeking out publicity in the realms of fair-trade media. So what. There may be widespread shouting from the rooftops that GW is acting in an un-Australian manner - yet we'll chuckle to ourselves because little do they know that we aren't concerned about Australian "values" in the GW Wargaming industry, and what's a bit of bad press but a minor nuisance!
The cretins may quail at the fact that Australians pay 40 to 80% more than the UK at local GW stores (relative in terms of currency conversion). I, however, understand that shipping and administration costs more than justify these understandable increases in retail prices for us. In fact, if anything I would welcome a price increase - after all it may be necessary in order to recoup potential market losses from the recent embargo AND how else is Mat Ward expected to pay for the bi-monthly enema brainstorming session I'm sure is necessary to produce so much bu11shit quality material every space marine release.
So as I sit here slowly stroking my neck beard and gazing over the bright Blue, Red and Grey armor of my Space Marines and their assorted WarMachines, I can't help but feel proud to be a part of the GW Wargaming industry. Kudos to you. May your continued sound marketing strategy (Descent of Sales) be the Bane of Legions of "casual" players everywhere.
Hurrdurr2000 wrote:I'm writing a similar e-mail. Here it is in full:
Criticism appreciated.
Dear marketing Geniuses,
Seriously though,
What the feth.
Edited it for you.
Your just writing to b!@#$, and see above for what I said. I said if you don't have a clear issue, you are shouting to the heavens in your best 300 voice.
on the rare occasion that i get i reply from gw they head it with 'hello there'. such amateurish responding only makes me more inclined to believe that gw are nothing more than gakkers. to go from an ok company to an amateurish outfit with dollar signs in their eyes is beyond contempt. i think it started to go pear shaped when they floated on the stock extange and then began making the lord of the rings miniatures in a different scale to their other lines. they would have given us more range for conversions and more sales would have gone to them. gw -- money is a bonus, pleasing the customers is good practice, they return time and again to good companies. its not rocket science, you amateurs.
ITT people who think they know how GW works. Make huge assumptions based on limited information. And in general show a lack of any sort of business, management, or economic knowledge.
For example. OP.
lukewild1982 wrote:
White dwarf used to be such an event every month, now its just a sales leaflet, pushing whatever overpriced thing you have to at the time. Where have the articles gone, I know your going to claim they are still there but they just aren't and you know they are not.
No. This is your opinion. Do not force your opinion on others. YOU feel that the articles are not there anymore. This is your opinion, and yours only. Others may or may not agree with this opinion, but in the end it is not up to you to decide if the articles are there or not.
I also appreciate that you make vast sums of money on new army releases due to the novelty factor and that you need that rush of sales regularly otherwise you would have gone under, so my appreciation of your efforts is also frustrated by the fact that you did it for your sake rather than ours (the gamer).
1.) How do you know that GW makes "vast sums of money" on new army releases? How. Please do tell me. Do you have access to internal accounts of GW? No you do not. (I am assuming you are not an insider of the business.) You *ASSUME* GW makes vast sums of money when infact all you can do is not much more than guess.
2.) You state you are "frustrated by the fact that (GW) did it for their sake and not (the gamers). First and foremost, GW is a corporation. A corporation under law is basically another legal entity, in essence, another person.. My question to you is what makes your arrogant mind think you should deserve more than anyone else? What makes you think that anything anyone does should be for your sake, and not theirs?
Your price increases over the past ten or so years though have shocked me to my core. Your unbearable and ruthless attempts to squeeze every penny out of customers disgusts me.
TBQH if its so unbearable, then don't bear it. Simple. That said, I will ask you again, what makes you think GW is attempting to squeeze every penny out of customers? Do you have access to internal accounts? Additionally I will also go back to what I said before. What makes you so arrogant as to think you deserve more than another person(GW)? There are limited resources in this world, and everyone is fighting for the same thing. In this case, money. Everyone wants more money. Why do you deserve it more than GW? Why should GW lose a pinky just so you can keep an arm? For all intents and purposes, you're just being as selfish as GW for price hiking.
I'd post more, but tbqh, you can see the point. (Also I kinda need to run atm >__>
If you honestly "care" about the way GW is turning out APPLY to join GW management. Join the board of directors. Become a majority shareholder, and DO SOMETHING. Don't just whine.
tl;dr your rights are not being infringed upon. You have nothing to complain about. Stop bitching.
Kouzuki wrote:...what makes you think GW is attempting to squeeze every penny out of customers?
Did you honestly just ask this question? Regular, consistent price rises, reduction in actual physical models per box, decrease of points values in codices, none of these things strike you as GW trying to wring every last penny from you that they can?
Kouzuki wrote: Do you have access to internal accounts?]
Yep, it's called Financial Reports, something that every PLC has to release by law to both their shareholders and the wider public. Go onto their website and check it out, its right there for you to read. As such we have some form of factual basis on which to lay out our concerns.
I think you are utterly missing the point. Not many people here WANT GW to fold, quite the contrary, we want them to succeed as we enjoy the background, models and (to a lesser extent, the rules). However, the behaviour of the organisation coupled with their complete lack of communication with, or even recognition of, their customers makes it very, very hard for people to empathise with.
Oh, and your suggestions are, to be frank, utter drivel. Apply to join GW corporate? Join the board of directors? Become a majority shareholder? What a load of absoloute bollocks. Every time you claim that a politician has made a terrible decision do your peers tell you 'Well, why don't you just shut up and become a politician if you *care* so much?!'
We are upset from a CUSTOMERS point of view, and as such we are expressing our discontent as CUSTOMERS, something we are irrevocably, wholly and absolutely within our right to do.
GW is a big boy, and he cares less about you defending his actions than us degrading them, please keep that in mind for your next post.
Your price increases over the past ten or so years though have shocked me to my core. Your unbearable and ruthless attempts to squeeze every penny out of customers disgusts me.
TBQH if its so unbearable, then don't bear it. Simple. That said, I will ask you again, what makes you think GW is attempting to squeeze every penny out of customers? Do you have access to internal accounts? Additionally I will also go back to what I said before. What makes you so arrogant as to think you deserve more than another person(GW)? There are limited resources in this world, and everyone is fighting for the same thing. In this case, money. Everyone wants more money. Why do you deserve it more than GW? Why should GW lose a pinky just so you can keep an arm? For all intents and purposes, you're just being as selfish as GW for price hiking.
tl;dr your rights are not being infringed upon. You have nothing to complain about. Stop bitching.
Agree.
People act like GW is scalping water in drought-ridden Africa by raising prices on plastic toys.
The entitled ignorant whining 'fans' who feel they have the right to a cheap luxury product disgust me. They refuse to actually boycott because they are selfish and still want 40k, new models and the game to play, but they want things to be cheaper even though CLEARLY the market can and will bear the price increases. Why should it be cheaper? Why do people pretend the relation ship with GW is anything but that of a customer and all GW owes you for your money is a box of plastic? Buying 10k of plastic doesn't make you part owner, doesn't give you stock, doesn't give you a right to control how the company runs. They got your money and that is all they care about.
All I see are drug addicts who will still pay the increased price and there will be ZERO drop in sales, there will not be a mass exodus to some other gaming system and the prices will go up and stay up.
When you are a customer, you only have two choices... Buy or not buy. There is no 'buy but pass along my severe discontent with things with my moneys.' The only valid way to express your discontent as a CUSTOMER is to not buy. But crack-addicted addicts can't stop their addiction can they? Claiming you have 'the right' to express your discontent is an entitled attitude because you don't have the right to be heard. And why should they? When they still get your money it drowns out the self-important noise the supposed to be listened to.
Maybe if all you whiners actually stopped buying stuff instead of writing letters, the lack of sales would force them to then look into why sales have dropped. Hard for them to actually listen to your letters when sales keep going up and so do profits.
Lycaeus Wrex wrote:
Did you honestly just ask this question? Regular, consistent price rises, reduction in actual physical models per box, decrease of points values in codices, none of these things strike you as GW trying to wring every last penny from you that they can?
Yes. I did. If GW has priced their products even one cent/penny/whatever under where marginal cost is equal to marginal revenue, then they are not trying to wring every last penny from you.
Yep, it's called Financial Reports, something that every PLC has to release by law to both their shareholders and the wider public. Go onto their website and check it out, its right there for you to read. As such we have some form of factual basis on which to lay out our concerns.
No. Those are published accounts and for all intents and purposes reveal nothing about the company except what they want you to see.. Look at Enron, and more recently Lehman Brothers etc. If you have access to internal accounts, you have what is called insider information. Chances are, unless you are an insider, you do not have this information.
I think you are utterly missing the point. Not many people here WANT GW to fold, quite the contrary, we want them to succeed as we enjoy the background, models and (to a lesser extent, the rules). However, the behaviour of the organisation coupled with their complete lack of communication with, or even recognition of, their customers makes it very, very hard for people to empathise with.
Missing the point? If you don't wantGW to fold but you want lower prices? You don't wantGW to fold but you want to get more content? You don't wantGW to fold but you want.... etc? Sorry but gak doesn't work that way. First things first, most countries in the world IIRC except Japan are undergoing inflation. That in and of itself is reason to pin up prices.
Who cares if the corporation "empathies" with customers. Quite frankly if you wantGW to succeed, then buy. Keep buying. Buy all you possibly can, regardless of price. If GW succeeding is honestly what you want.
Oh, and your suggestions are, to be frank, utter drivel. Apply to join GW corporate? Join the board of directors? Become a majority shareholder? What a load of absoloute bollocks. Every time you claim that a politician has made a terrible decision do your peers tell you 'Well, why don't you just shut up and become a politician if you *care* so much?!'
Yes. Become a politician. Unless you have that sort of resolve, you are just whining, and obviously not something you want enough.
We are upset from a CUSTOMERS point of view, and as such we are expressing our discontent as CUSTOMERS, something we are irrevocably, wholly and absolutely within our right to do.
GW is a big boy, and he cares less about you defending his actions than us degrading them, please keep that in mind for your next post.
I'm not defending GW. I am giving constructive? criticism to help these people who really care to send something to GW, a letter that is actually worth GW's time reading.
People act like GW is scalping water in drought-ridden Africa by raising prices on plastic toys.
The entitled ignorant whining 'fans' who feel they have the right to a cheap luxury product disgust me. They refuse to actually boycott because they are selfish and still want 40k, new models and the game to play, but they want things to be cheaper even though CLEARLY the market can and will bear the price increases. Why should it be cheaper? Why do people pretend the relation ship with GW is anything but that of a customer and all GW owes you for your money is a box of plastic? Buying 10k of plastic doesn't make you part owner, doesn't give you stock, doesn't give you a right to control how the company runs. They got your money and that is all they care about.
All I see are drug addicts who will still pay the increased price and there will be ZERO drop in sales, there will not be a mass exodus to some other gaming system and the prices will go up and stay up.
When you are a customer, you only have two choices... Buy or not buy. There is no 'buy but pass along my severe discontent with things with my moneys.' The only valid way to express your discontent as a CUSTOMER is to not buy. But crack-addicted addicts can't stop their addiction can they? Claiming you have 'the right' to express your discontent is an entitled attitude because you don't have the right to be heard. And why should they? When they still get your money it drowns out the self-important noise the supposed to be listened to.
Maybe if all you whiners actually stopped buying stuff instead of writing letters, the lack of sales would force them to then look into why sales have dropped. Hard for them to actually listen to your letters when sales keep going up and so do profits.
I do agree with you. People will still pay the prices for these models. Mostly it all ends up being internet bitching that eventually recedes when some lovely new eye candy of a model comes out.
The only thing that bothers me is the constant price increases. If I would have gotten into the game years ago and it had luxury prices, then I might now have complained as much. But seeing a ork battlewagon go from $50.00 to $66.00 in two years is absurd.
nkelsch wrote:. Maybe if all you whiners actually stopped buying stuff instead of writing letters, the lack of sales would force them to then look into why sales have dropped. Hard for them to actually listen to your letters when sales keep going up and so do profits.
Except they don't. I guess we should really sticky the annual threads discussing GW financial results since so many people ignore the figures and just post what they think is happening. Let me reiterate; GW sales are falling and have been falling consistently for many years now. The only reason they have managed to keep profitable is by continually jacking up prices to cover the short fall in sales and by extreme cost cutting measures. Neither policy is an effective strategy for long term survival.
So the 'whiners', as you so eloquently put it, are voting with their wallets. Not yet in the numbers to make GW sit up and take notice but in numbers nonetheless.
Flashman wrote:Unfortunately, there will probably be a "Hobbit" spike next year, so they'll go back to thinking this strategy works.
Will there be? I'm not so convinced.
Firstly, the LotR spike was not just because of the film promotion, but primarily in the UK, Europe and Oz because of TV advertising by DeAgostini for the partwork magazine that included Citadel miniatures. It generated a lot of interest that was felt in the stores - loads of people saw the TV ads, saw the GW logo and walked into their nearest store to buy a box of the Fellowship. Clear evidence of this is that in 2002-4 there was nowhere near the level of sales spike in the US where DeAgostini didn't release their partwork compared to massive spikes in the UK and Europe (and to a much lesser extent Oz).
Secondly, the LotR films were a new phenomenon, the Hobbit is a prequel. There won't be anywhere near the same level of buzz. Everyone who is a wargamer and liked the LotR already knows the Hobbit is coming. There is very little excitement about the forthcoming Hobbit releases on such forums as TLA or OR as people know that they will likely be very expensive and the game will be a typical GW game with all the usual baggage that entails. Most Tolkien-loving wargamers are pretty jaded with GW right now. Sure they will buy *some* figures but it is unlikely top be the massive sales phenomenon that LotR was.
Just my 2p, but its what I'm expecting in 2012/13.
If I were asked to put a gues on the size of the numbers, I'd say a 10% jump in sales lasting 2 years, maybe 3 with the DVD releases. It'll get them out of a hole (again), but won't buy Mark Wells a private jet. and in 2016 the shareholders will be baying for his blood when the turnover returns to 40k/WFB-only levels again.
I suspect the real motivation for buying up the Hobbit licence was not to make loads of direct profit off the licence, but to prevent another company from being able to do so. This way they may make a small profit, but more importantly won't lose any sales to a competitor who might produce a fantastic game at a reasonable price with lovely models and thereby gain a leg up the competition ladder, eating into GW's sales. A major franchise like The Hobbit might be enough to boost the likes of a Privateer Press much closer to GW than they are already.
I commend those who are taking the time to write and send letters. Those emailing and recieving the "Hi there fellow hobbyist, wow look at our new stuff" casual slang replies, please take the time to email them back showing dissapointment at such an unprofessional attitute to replying to those emails
I however am with those who believe that despite any number of complaints, nothing will change. I remember grand openings in GW where you could get some stuff nice and cheap or even free with deals they offered in the store on the day. Now even those are a distant memory. The prices will continue to rise with R and D and the rising costs of plastics as reasons. But has anyone looked at the changes in model companies prices the past years as well?
It was pointed out to me by people who buy and build the the kits that it is not just GW who have seen such rises for their products.
While we're at it, let's face it everyones disposable income is getting smaller and small with "costs of ttransporting" essentials such as food cause those prices to rise as well. Vote with your wallets people, as your disposable income gets smaller look into either other pass times or other ranges.
I hate to say this here but when AoW released 20 models at £20 which I sincerely hope will be their normal price to model count ratio no one said anything een though model per model costs the same as say a box of GW goblins.
Oh and GW's hot wind about best toy soldiers, premium products etc etc, and importantly quality, look at the avatar of war models and a LOT of the gamezone range. Much nicer models and more sickeningly GW are claiming 4th edition WHFB dragon ogres are the best in the worlld?
I think I'll take up smoking again, I honestly believe it's cheaper and probably less addictive from GW still having sales at their prices.
we will see, I am sending my letter tomorrow. Not having great hope it will change anything but it does look like they are getting much, much more flak from customers than they ever had before and people are dropping from GW as well (at least down where I live).
Even GW fanbois that usually swarm threads like that are pretty quiet this time (apart from Kouzuki). Certainly ones I know personally didn't know what to say in the last "Week Of Best GW Decisions Ever"
I read a new slogan for GW somewhere on the internet : "Rape: now on Advance Order"
Phototoxin wrote:Do we want to say that by friday we will all send a letter of complaint to GW about the price increase and/or move to resin and/or Oz/Kiwi problem?
Done. Come on everyone. Just copy and paste one of your ordered thoughts into a word document, print and stick it in the post during your lunch break.
+1 on this! I will be composing a letter, politely written and to the point, if all of us can do the same it will all add up.
What a shame about so many of the reactions of people. I do not really undersand most of your points of opposition. I do not have access to personal accounts of Games Workshop but have enough business knowledge that to realise that releasing a new range in miniatures will result in an influx of sales and I am not really sure where you point in questioning that would be. Your moaning at the fact that people are ranting and seem to be blind to the fact that your moaning about people ranting.
I don't really play games anymore and merely enjoy painting and modeling from that vast array of companies we have available to us, so in many ways I have already protested with my wallet.
Apparently my opinion on White Dwarf is not the case and its full of fascintating articles and in depth writings, I am deeply sorry for missing the issue that contained this in the last 3 years and would love a back issue if anyone has it.
Some people have attacked this thread and for reasons I still can't really see. If you firm fans of GW and want to defend them then thats fine and completely your right to do so, also I see many many reasons for you to do just that. Sadly though your talking to people in an extremely rude and oppinutive way and I think maybe this thread that I started needs to be closed before it gets out of hand. We are attacking GW for the reasons we have all stated, your attacking individuals for their opinions. I thinks that puts it simply enough. I urge anyone to stand up and be heard when they feel that things are not being done correctly and I urge those to write to the ones responsible for that.
Pfft, keep on defending them.
It doesn't stop the fact that we can and will say what we want, even if you want to be the company yesman and spokeperson for a bunch of !@#tards. GW is shafting us as customers and players, we don't like it and we're going to do what we want to about it. YOU don't like that, thats tough.
My letter, a little bit more long winded than I intended but I hope will get the point across. It's going in the mail, on paper, back to the UK which I hope will raise its efficacy above that of an email.
Spoiler:
To whom it may concern,
I am writing as a twenty year fan of Games Workshop regarding the recent change in policies enacted by the company. First, let me say that I was absolutely delighted by the recent Dark Eldar, as well as Orc & Goblin, releases. The former range is (although it seems strange to say concerning the subject material) quite beautiful, and I believe the designers and sculptors have set a new benchmark in design quality.
So with this in mind it has pained me to see the recent sequence of policy changes enacted by Games Workshop. Chiefly among these is the new rule preventing UK sellers from posting to locations outside of the UK. I am currently living and working in South Korea, and my hobby activities have only been made practical by orders from UK independent retailers. Without this option, there is only a single independent stockist in the entire country. This retailer does not hold the entire range, and furthermore is more than 5 hours travelling time from where I live. While it may indeed be possible for me to receive Games Workshop product from family members sending private mail, this new policy has added a massive inconvenience and I am sure will curtail many of my future purchases. I can understand I only represent a minor demographic for Games Workshop, but nevertheless there is a dedicated group of hobbyists who live within the country. Most are ex-pats like my self, but there are also a growing number of native players who are being pulled into the hobby themselves. It is un-doubtable that there is a massive untapped market here in Northern Asia, and this new move has the potential to snuff it out in its infancy.
The second, no less important, point I would like to raise concerns the latest increase in pricing. While I am excited at the prospect of new resin models, as Games Workshop customers we had previously been lead to believe that such a move was made at least in part due to its cheaper production costs (so that the company would no longer be at the whims of increasing metal prices). Why then, have the latest price lists revealed as much as a 25% increase in prices? I have always done my best in the past to defend the price increases against my doubts, on the basis of production and development costs, and the quality of the models which Games Workshop produces. However, I have found my self aghast at these latest price increases. Furthermore, while Games Workshop does not price it’s miniatures significantly above those of other manufacturers (at least in most cases), it is set apart by the number of models which are required to take part in a standard game. The new Warhammer Fantasy Battle 8th edition, while a fantastic set of rules and a great book in its own right, has tipped the balance firmly in favour of large blocks of infantry. That this has coincided with a reduction in the number of miniatures in a single boxset (with orcs for example, and an increase in the relative price per orc) has led me to question whether a new force is economically feasible. I am an adult with a comfortable amount of disposable income, but I fear that this latest increase may have taken me beyond the tipping point. I shudder at the thought of parents given a bill for what there child’s new army might cost, at even the minimum level to play as Games Workshop recommends it. Although I don’t wish to go on a tangent at this point, I look through the companies range of products, and I don’t see the ‘skirmish’ size games which were present when I started the hobby myself, and which acted as a gateway for both myself and so many others to get into the hobby and be ‘bitten’ by the GW bug.
Games Workshop has been an important part of my life. It might sound strange to people who are outside the hobby, but the community aspect, the enjoyment of playing, modeling, and reading about the fantastically created universes have provided me with massive enjoyment over the years. It is for this reason that I write this letter; not only because the changes will affect my own hobby on a personal level, but also because one day I hope that my own children will be able to experience the same enjoyment that I have been lucky enough to experience. The new changes seem completely irrational to me and without any logic concerning the long term future of the company. While they may generate profit over the short term, these policies as well as others (whose inclusion I have forgone in order to try and keep this letter concise – it could have been longer!) I fear will result in an uncertain future for Games Workshop. Most certainly it places a big question mark over my own future involvement in terms of purchasing new products, and I am fortunate in that regard that I already have a significant collection. I feel sorry however for those who do not.
Thank you for taking the time to read my letter, and I hope it (or at least the sentiments it contains) will be passed on so that the subjects it broaches upon may be discussed further. Due to my location, I do not expect a written reply, and so have included my email address.
Pacific wrote:My letter, a little bit more long winded than I intended but I hope will get the point across. It's going in the mail, on paper, back to the UK which I hope will raise its efficacy above that of an email.
I did a quick read of your "letter." I will ask you one question.
What benefit do the owners of GW get from your suggestions? The answer? TBQH, nothing. In the end GW is an operating business. The end goal of all operating businesses is to increase the wealth of owners. Unless you can provide suggestions that increase the wealth of owners, nothing is going to happen.
Anyway, on to the following points.
1.) Massive untapped market in Northern Asia. Perhaps. But truth be told they're better off focusing on BRIC countries with even bigger potential, and should completely ignore stagnating western countries (Western Europe, the US, and Australia, and Korea/Japan while we're at it.) That said, if you really wanted GW stuff, you can order from GW Japan.
2.) You complain about prices. GW products are luxuries. Luxuries have relatively static price-elasticity. Therefore it is beneficial to GW to increase prices. Additionally, all countries across the world, with the noticeable exception of Japan, are experiencing inflation. That in and of itself is reason to raise prices of GW products.
3.) These changes are thought out strategically, and discussed through many many internal meetings, and probably with the board of directors. The individuals behind the changes have far more knowledge about GW, its current status, and its future than you do. Please do not be so arrogant as to think GW has an "uncertain future," just because you, an insignificant selfish individual does not like what the company is doing, and feels that you need to quit. The reason these decisions are made are to make sure GW can continue in the future. Seriously. What company makes strategic decisions to end their own life.
Pfft, keep on defending them.
It doesn't stop the fact that we can and will say what we want, even if you want to be the company yesman and spokeperson for a bunch of !@#tards. GW is shafting us as customers and players, we don't like it and we're going to do what we want to about it. YOU don't like that, thats tough.
I hate to say this (I didn't want to admit it to myself - denial syndrome) but Grot6 may well be right (you can spare me the 'I told you so' speech though you probably won't ). If GW are responsible for the closure of BoW's Youtube account - I won't be quiet about it...
Pacific wrote:My letter, a little bit more long winded than I intended but I hope will get the point across. It's going in the mail, on paper, back to the UK which I hope will raise its efficacy above that of an email.
I did a quick read of your "letter." I will ask you one question.
.
I think it's possible to reply to points constructively, without coming across as a little overly aggressive. It might be an idea to read through your posts in future, and remember that we are all here to discuss something that we take part in as a pleasurable past time.
1.) Massive untapped market in Northern Asia. Perhaps. But truth be told they're better off focusing on BRIC countries with even bigger potential, and should completely ignore stagnating western countries (Western Europe, the US, and Australia, and Korea/Japan while we're at it.) That said, if you really wanted GW stuff, you can order from GW Japan.
I can't see how removing the potential for any foreign market can be seen as desirable. Yes the market in Korea is in its infancy, but the country's economy is growing, the middle class is expanding rapidly within the country and relatively low costs of living and taxation rates mean that many people have a large amount of disposable income. This situation already exists, there is a huge potential customer base, whereas huge numbers of people within the BRIC exist near or even under the poverty line, and for whom the prospect of obtaining any kind of GW-esque product would be simply unimaginable. I would argue that the creation of a South Korean market in the short term (along with the already existing market in Japan) would provide a solid foundation within Northern Asia for when the burgeoning middle class in China grows enough to make investment their worthwhile.
Yes I can order from GW Japan (or even GWUK for that matter) but the price would be significantly higher (with extra taxation and postage) than I am willing to pay. This is a personal matter, although I know I am not alone in that regard.
2.) You complain about prices. GW products are luxuries. Luxuries have relatively static price-elasticity. Therefore it is beneficial to GW to increase prices. Additionally, all countries across the world, with the noticeable exception of Japan, are experiencing inflation. That in and of itself is reason to raise prices of GW products.
3.) These changes are thought out strategically, and discussed through many many internal meetings, and probably with the board of directors. The individuals behind the changes have far more knowledge about GW, its current status, and its future than you do. Please do not be so arrogant as to think GW has an "uncertain future," just because you, an insignificant selfish individual does not like what the company is doing, and feels that you need to quit. The reason these decisions are made are to make sure GW can continue in the future. Seriously. What company makes strategic decisions to end their own life.
Price increases have been expected, and moaned about, in the past. What makes this one a little different (as I mentioned in my 'letter') is that it comes on the back of a change to a new material which would supposedly have lead to a reduction in production costs. And it's not just the price increase which I think has lead to so much ire this time around, it's the fact that it's been acting in concert with the changes in the game and how the core range rules have been adapted to maximise this disparity. The orc boyz boxset being just one example, a reduction in the number of models per box while keeping them at the same price. The change to WFB 8th edition makes large units of this model type desirable, and yet to make a solid block (and just one unit in your army) the customer is looking at around $150.
Yes it is possible to play the game by spending less money, but the rules are designed specifically for 2000pts+, and find a WD battle report recently that has less than 3000pts a side. Youngsters coming into the hobby will pick the 'horde' of GW product as the ideal option, and their parents will be faced the choice of a monumental bill, or just to say 'no' and pick one of the myriad of other hobbies available to youngsters these days. When I first got into the hobby, there were other options - the MB games for instance, and a variety of skirmish games. It got us in the through the door, and bitten by the 'GW bug', and I am sure that many other gamers of my age group went through the same thing. In relative terms, the prices have long since passed from pocket money territory, and into the realms of major investment. Fewer and fewer parents will take that risk (as evident by the dropping sales), and that can only hurt the long term viability of a company that is attempting to target younger customers. This has been compounded by the switch to one-man stores, which reduces the ability of the GW store to act in an effect way in bringing fresh blood into the hobby.
This brings me to your 3rd point. I advise you to have a read of the blog below and see what you think about the decision making aspect of the company. It does not paint a rosy picture.
Ultimately, I don't think I am being selfish or self centred at all in writing that letter. I genuinely feel these recent policy changes will damage the long term eligibility of the company, and it is for much that reason than my own personal inconvenience I decided to pen (or 12pt Calibri at least) to paper. And, I know that I am not alone in that regard.
I am writing to complain about a number of announcements or alterations to business practices made by your company over the last week.
Firstly, you have announced further price increases that are far above the level of inflation. In many cases, products have increased in price by as much as 25%. I don’t believe I really need to draw your attention drawing to the current economic climate, but living costs have increased significantly whilst many people have seen their salaries cut or frozen (in my case, both!). I have read that Games Workshop now believe in charging a premium price for what they believe to be premium products. Such an attitude is reprehensible and disrespectful to customers who have been supporting your company for many years. However, regardless of whether or not I believe I am getting value for money, the simple fact is that you have now priced me out of your hobby.
Secondly, you have announced that your metal miniatures will now be produced in resin which also appears to warrant a price increase despite the fact that resin is a cheaper material. This is a further indication of a pricing strategy based around “willingness to pay” rather than a price that reflects the cost of materials, wages and overheads.
Thirdly, you have banned UK retailers who stock your products from selling outside of the European Union. This prevents hobbyists in Australia and some other countries from buying your products at anything approaching a realistic price. The cost of a Space Marine Tactical squad in Australia is $62 which works out at approximately £42.00. Would you honestly pay £42.00 for 10 small plastic miniatures? Many of us communicate with our fellow Australian hobbyists over the internet and they make a contribution towards the fantastic atmosphere in the Warhammer community. Yet you seem determined to cripple this section of your fan base and drive them out of the hobby.
Fourthly, I understand that you will now only announce up coming releases a week before they go on sale. The veil of secrecy that has descended over your future releases has become an irritation for many Warhammer fans. Not knowing when specific models will become available makes it very difficult to plan and build an army. However, there had been emails two months or so in advance announcing an incoming army or range of products which did at least offer some clues. Now it seems there will be nothing. This appears to me that you simply want people to make knee jerk purchasing decisions at the point when they finally get to see a new release, rather than plan out their hobby and developing structured armies. Aside from anything else, it also shows a greater willingness on your part to ignore the Warhammer community and only speak to us when you have something to sell.
A considered response on these matters would be greatly appreciated. I have been collecting and playing Warhammer for over twenty years and though I have no wish to leave the hobby, I refuse to support a company that appears to be only interested in satisfying its shareholders at the expense of listening and communicating with its customers.
lukewild1982 wrote:What a shame about so many of the reactions of people. I do not really undersand most of your points of opposition. I do not have access to personal accounts of Games Workshop but have enough business knowledge that to realise that releasing a new range in miniatures will result in an influx of sales and I am not really sure where you point in questioning that would be. Your moaning at the fact that people are ranting and seem to be blind to the fact that your moaning about people ranting.
I don't really play games anymore and merely enjoy painting and modeling from that vast array of companies we have available to us, so in many ways I have already protested with my wallet.
Apparently my opinion on White Dwarf is not the case and its full of fascintating articles and in depth writings, I am deeply sorry for missing the issue that contained this in the last 3 years and would love a back issue if anyone has it.
Some people have attacked this thread and for reasons I still can't really see. If you firm fans of GW and want to defend them then thats fine and completely your right to do so, also I see many many reasons for you to do just that. Sadly though your talking to people in an extremely rude and oppinutive way and I think maybe this thread that I started needs to be closed before it gets out of hand. We are attacking GW for the reasons we have all stated, your attacking individuals for their opinions. I thinks that puts it simply enough. I urge anyone to stand up and be heard when they feel that things are not being done correctly and I urge those to write to the ones responsible for that.
There's this new trend the last few years that I've noticed in gaming circles that I call "extreme fanboyism." I first noticed it in the MMORPG universe, but it's definitely spread to other games. It's when people will blindly defend objectively terrible things because they like the corporation that makes them. It's a really weird phenomenon, and has pretty scary social implications that people are so willing to blindly defend corporations.
As for me personally, I've spent the last 18 months slowly collecting a Space Wolves army. Luckily, I have all the metals I need for the army already. This weekend I am picking up the last models I need to "finish" my 2500 points, and calling it a day. Next year I was actually planning on spending my tax return to pick up an entire second army at retail, either Sisters of Battle if they actually came out, or Orks. Those plans have been cancelled, as I can't support a company that treats their customers with this much utter contempt. An annual price increase is bad enough... but couple it with lowering your production costs (and model quality, imo) and that's where I need to draw the line.
There's people in this thread defending GW, claiming that we don't know what their profit margins are like, and surely their only responsibility is short-term profit. I have a hard time believing the former, as other companies are consistently putting out great models at lower prices. As for the latter, I think failing to plan for the long-term should be punished, not rewarded.
Concern: 40K is a hobby that I enjoy but the increasing cost and apparent sloppiness of the rules updates appears to be causing a general disaffection with 40K.
Appearances:
1. GW is doing a ham-fisted money grab. This may not be the fact but increased unit prices, decreased model counts per box and decreased rules cost per fig lead to an increased cost of investment to get a viable force.
2. GW lack of proper playtesting OR GW desire to create an artificial desire for new product. The latest and greatest given ham-fisted or untested advantages leads to an increased desire to buy the flavor of the month but eventually leads to disaffection once people realize that their significant investment will be rendered ineffective within 2 or 3 later releases.
Risk: My continued support of this as a hobby is contingent on other opponents maintaining an interest in this hobby. Because of the increased cost and apparent disregard to the aforementioned concerns/appearances, I am concluding that the 40K universe is at risk.
Please increase prices more. I am having difficulty finding enough people to play Warmachines with. I think that if you could increase your prices by at least $3 per item more; I would be able to find more people willing to try Privateer Press products. I also appreciate every thing you have done to alienate female gamers. My wife is very interested in the "Haley" war caster available from PP. I am excited to introduce her to a game in which she can field a majority female army in order to satisfy her own imagination.
Please ignore your player base. Raise prices.
Thank you,
SS
PS.
This is not a joke. If GW is going to destroy their Witch Hunters line and ruin the game for me and mine. Then I want it to go away entirely. I need people willing to play the games I am interested in and that means the total and utter destruction of all GW products. Keep it up GW!
).
it & the thought of a using a Warcaster over a Phoenix Lord hasn't exactly got me excited just as yet. I know that if anything like the campaign I've started for Warhammer Quest (and all Specialist Games) is to succeed it would take a co-ordinated effort by hobbyists & fans world-wide to make their voices be heard & to get what we want as customers. Sadly a lot of people seem too negative to even consider that such a simple thing could work. I just feel that if enough of us demand it - they'll be more likely to supply it than if we did nothing other than argue amongst ourselves.
or else spare the people that still enjoy the hobby and