Games Workshop has confirmed that there will be a price rise on 1st June. It will be on 277 of their products including most of the Battleforces. We have put the full list up on our homepage at http://www.darksphere.co.uk
Oh, wait, you said "price rise" not "price cut due to the fact that we are using cheaper materials and manufacturing processes which allow us to pass the savings on to our very loyal yet incredibly abused customers"...
I cannot fathom why they are increasing the prices of codexes. Surely these should be sold at cost (or possibly below) as they are enablers to customers buying other products?
I know it's kinda like having a pop at someone's religion, but you have to be mad to stick with them and take this price abuse. There are plenty of other systems out there that are just as good. Why carry on supporting them when they keep doing this to you?
The only way that you may stand some chance of ever get through to them is to stop buying from them and to point the younger generation at another system. I know for a fatc that most of the posters on this forum have enough forces to play with, so purchasing from GW isn't about "need", more about "want". Carry on play the game if you want, but stop buying from them, use the stuff you have.
This isn't going to happen so nothing will ever change.
Not too much DE stuff going up, though I wonder If since scourges are the same price as warriors are if they will also be going up :( thanks for the heads up
GCMandrake wrote:I cannot fathom why they are increasing the prices of codexes. Surely these should be sold at cost (or possibly below) as they are enablers to customers buying other products?
Damn, this is a punch in the gut. And here was me, planning to get into the hobby again in summer! My exams are over 23rd June, and my parents would never let me buy anything that might distract me so close to my finals. Wel, I guess that's just life. Who knows, maybe we'll live to see a price CUT once in our lives. Maybe.
cantustropus wrote:Damn, this is a punch in the gut. And here was me, planning to get into the hobby again in summer! My exams are over 23rd June, and my parents would never let me buy anything that might distract me so close to my finals. Wel, I guess that's just life. Who knows, maybe we'll live to see a price CUT once in our lives. Maybe.
We won´t.
But unless you´re dead set on GW, or have no independent FLSG around where you live, you might take a look into other games
Thanks guys for that friendly, informative update & total catalogue of the U.K. price ranges
Wait, shouldn't that have been GW's job
Thanks for the Chaos Battallion I bought off you guys a couple of weeks ago, you've given me a lot of modelling to do at a very reasonable price. If I ever buy any new GW product. I will come to you
The only way that you may stand some chance of ever getting through to them is to stop buying from them and to point the younger generation at another system. I know for a fatc that most of the posters on this forum have enough forces to play with, so purchasing from GW isn't about "need", more about "want". Carry on play the game if you want, but stop buying from them, use the stuff you have.
If a group are dedicated enough join together & start to generate enough negative press then it may be possible (most will simply walk away and not inform GW they are doing so or not keep on doing so until they get a reply - so it will make no difference to the board). In the mean time I plan on doing exactly what you've said (if they made the Wracks & Grotesques in plastic I would have still got a Dark Eldar army but they haven't) although will continue to demand a new Warhammer Quest (double standards - me? )
Good job I've got the Kings of War starter set & other bits knocking around
...but holy feth, are they insane? I thought it was just metal/resin going up. And they're not particularly subtle price increases either. I am actually going to have say those immortal words, "I think that's it for me now."
As an Aussie gamer, if someone had told me 2 years ago that doing a Forgeworld Death Korps army would actually work out CHEAPER than buying an equivalent sized imperial guard army from my local GW store, I would have said they were insane.
BrookM wrote:From what I've heard from my FLGS store owner we (we being the Dutch) may be dodging a bullet.
Are you sure?
I was already counting on the 19,50 Dark Eldar kits to become 22,50 like the Scourges, and kits like the Pistoliers, Chaos Knights, Ork Boyz etc to go up to about 22,50 also & the 40K tanks to all go to 39,- instead of 35,-.
BrookM wrote:From what I've heard from my FLGS store owner we (we being the Dutch) may be dodging a bullet.
Are you sure?
I was already counting on the 19,50 Dark Eldar kits to become 22,50 like the Scourges, and kits like the Pistoliers, Chaos Knights, Ork Boyz etc to go up to about 22,50 also & the 40K tanks to all go to 39,- instead of 35,-.
Pray tell, where? Not that I'm not believing you, it's just that my FLGS didn't hear any such thing.
Well there goes my plans to make an Empire army. I'd be ok if they actually included some new content in their kits to justify their price rises, but the fact that it's the same old stuff just tears it.
Wolfstan wrote: I know for a fatc that most of the posters on this forum have enough forces to play with, so purchasing from GW isn't about "need", more about "want". Carry on play the game if you want, but stop buying from them, use the stuff you have.
Ive said that a time or two myself recently. People get caught up in the collecting aspect of the hobby.
Im also a big advocate of games with creation rules. There are several out there that have them. You can build your army as you want...set the stats for troops, vehicles, weapons, etc. The fun part is some of them work for any era or genre. Take my favorite, Shockforce/Warengine. Its a skirmish game like 40k, but with the creation rules I can make stats for fantasy minis as well. So I can play a game with WHFB minis, but without the blocky rank unit organization, structure, and movement of WHFB.
This all makes sense now, closing off mail order to australia, but making it right.. not by bringing au prices down to normal levels but by bringing the rest of the world's prices up to theirs. Genious!
Snarky wrote:Well there goes my plans to make an Empire army. I'd be ok if they actually included some new content in their kits to justify their price rises, but the fact that it's the same old stuff just tears it.
With respect, why?
Build your Empire army, just not with GW figures.
There's a plethora of highly detailed, well made, cheaper late Medievil / Renaissance era figures that would more than fit the looks of an Empire army.
I honestly think that the best way to 'stick it' to GW is to not buy any of their stuff, but also to keep playing their games, but with other manufacturers figures.
This may not be doable if you only game at a GW store, but if you don't - go for it!
BrookM wrote:From what I've heard from my FLGS store owner we (we being the Dutch) may be dodging a bullet.
Are you sure?
I was already counting on the 19,50 Dark Eldar kits to become 22,50 like the Scourges, and kits like the Pistoliers, Chaos Knights, Ork Boyz etc to go up to about 22,50 also & the 40K tanks to all go to 39,- instead of 35,-.
Pray tell, where? Not that I'm not believing you, it's just that my FLGS didn't hear any such thing.
Supposedly Germany is getting the raise, dus wij waarschijnlijk ook
Thank you for letting us players know. May have to actually get round to seeing your store next time I'm in London and see what other fantasy wargames there's rules for out there. With the current trend I doubt GW will be getting any more of my cash...
I wonder how much the price increase will be in Aus because if it is more then 5-10%, it will be to expensive for me to play 40K and the other games like 40K I have never really got into .
as it is clearly becoming to expensive to get models from GW. does any one know were to get cheap/high detail IG and Chaos space marines (not FW) with good shipping prices to Aus
Phototoxin wrote:When are you at darksphere implementing this?
The last day that we can order product at the current prices from Games Workshop is Thursday 26th May, after that we will be buying at the new higher prices so will unfortunately have to increase our prices accordingly. If you're local to London then please keep checking our Events Calendar (http://www.darksphere.co.uk/shop.php) as we will be adding a whole pile of demos/participation games/etc for a variety of other game systems including Warmachine/Hordes, Malifaux, Flames of War, Mantic and Dystopian Wars so people can have a chance to see the most popular alternative games which are seeing massive uptake in our local games clubs.
....Guess I'll stock up on my HH collection on iBooks before they go up I suppose. Also need to buy a Valk and a Hellhound before they go up as well. *sigh*
BrookM wrote:From what I've heard from my FLGS store owner we (we being the Dutch) may be dodging a bullet.
Are you sure?
I was already counting on the 19,50 Dark Eldar kits to become 22,50 like the Scourges, and kits like the Pistoliers, Chaos Knights, Ork Boyz etc to go up to about 22,50 also & the 40K tanks to all go to 39,- instead of 35,-.
Pray tell, where? Not that I'm not believing you, it's just that my FLGS didn't hear any such thing.
Supposedly Germany is getting the raise, dus wij waarschijnlijk ook
Diepe zucht, het was waarschijnlijk toch té mooi om waar te zijn.
BrookM wrote:From what I've heard from my FLGS store owner we (we being the Dutch) may be dodging a bullet.
Are you sure?
I was already counting on the 19,50 Dark Eldar kits to become 22,50 like the Scourges, and kits like the Pistoliers, Chaos Knights, Ork Boyz etc to go up to about 22,50 also & the 40K tanks to all go to 39,- instead of 35,-.
Pray tell, where? Not that I'm not believing you, it's just that my FLGS didn't hear any such thing.
Supposedly Germany is getting the raise, dus wij waarschijnlijk ook
Diepe zucht, het was waarschijnlijk toch té mooi om waar te zijn.
And I had plans of restarting my Elysian armada.
No need for that sort of language feller!
Does this apply to FW?
Also does anyone know how this dovetails with the previous rise. I seem to remember that that was only on a section of their range if this was the other half then it would indicate a two year process rather than the across the board increase that is being assumed. (too hopeful?)
Sounds like because of the strength of the Canadian economy, we are mostly dodging the bullet. Only codexes/army books, battleforces, and hobby supplies. Almost all plastic boxes are staying the same (according to the owner of my FLGS).
To me this is kinda nice but only because I was excepecting worse ! Battleforces have gone up 10 pound OUCH I was expectng them to go up by 5 pound. Predators and vindicators at 31 poubnd is nasty and 41 pound land raiders are annoying (I suppose ebay and wayland games for those). But on the other hand I was waiting for 25 pound space marines and several kits are the same. My overall verdict: This is nasty but I was excepecting nastier
Hmm, well that was is a bummer :/ was going to get some bits for my Plague marine force, guess I won't now as things seem a little out of my price range :/
MrNurgle wrote:Hmm, well that was is a bummer :/ was going to get some bits for my Plague marine force, guess I won't now as things seem a little out of my price range :/
Oh yeah, plague marines are in finecast at 25 pound. Just letting you know
MrNurgle wrote:Hmm, well that was is a bummer :/ was going to get some bits for my Plague marine force, guess I won't now as things seem a little out of my price range :/
Hmmm...now, about that bargain hunting we were discussing?
This is insane, if they keep going like this, no one will ever buy any stuff again. At my local GW many of the customers are below working age. How are they suposed to afford these ever increaseing prices???
Seriously, a trygon has gone up by £6, what justifies that!!! Also, most of the space marine range has not increased as much. This IS a piss take. I knew a price raise was coming, but I cannot possibly fathom what makes them go up by this much! Online discount stores here I come, or failing that, alternatives here I come!
Oh by the way, thanks for the list. (no sarcasm )
Looking at your prices Dark-Sphere you will probably be my home from then on. Plus you accept paypal which is always handy (wish I'd known about you before!).
25 quid for a box of three models that are a ten year old plastic kit?!!
Right, that's that then: I'm off to inventory what's on my "unbuilt" shelf, work out how many more gaunts I want to get to get up to around the 3000 point mark, order then from Maelstrom asap, and then I'm done. I was going to start a DE wych cult after my 'nids, but I don't think I would get enough for my left kidney.
It will be a hot day on Fenris before I pay 25 quid for a box of Warriors.
What happens when they get their next financial report and see that sales have gone down by 78%? Probably raise their prices, that'll solve it. I' really tempted to go 'No Russian' on GWHQ if they do ONE more stupid thing that damages the company again.
iproxtaco wrote:What happens when they get their next financial report and see that sales have gone down by 78%? Probably raise their prices, that'll solve it. I' really tempted to go 'No Russian' on GWHQ if they do ONE more stupid thing that damages the company again.
I lol'd
Neith wrote:I got a good laugh when I saw the new price tag for Tyranid Warriors. £25 for 3?
You would have got more of a laugh if you had seen my face.
You see I couldn't really connect with the price rises in the US dollar format, but now it's put into pounds... My god.
Luckily I can't really play much anymore and I play BFG so I'm not going to be affected at all really, it still does not justify this sort of price increase.
My Orks will be the last army from GW I paint. Lucky for me I bought 1,000 GBP's worth about 2 years ago to keep me ammused for a few years. After 25 years in the hobby, its time to bin GW. I just can't pick up a box of 'x' and think its worth the stupid amount they are charging for it.
Until people vote with their wallets, GW will just keep rising their prices by inflation busting percentages.
Maybe this is all some last push by the directors and major shareholders to make as much money as possible before they kill the hobby off. Who knows????
What I do know is the GW have now lost me as a customer, and in loosing me, they loose 5 others. Now patiently waiting for my next Sodapop Order to arrive
Automatically Appended Next Post: My Orks will be the last army from GW I paint. Lucky for me I bought 1,000 GBP's worth about 2 years ago to keep me ammused for a few years. After 25 years in the hobby, its time to bin GW. I just can't pick up a box of 'x' and think its worth the stupid amount they are charging for it.
Until people vote with their wallets, GW will just keep rising their prices by inflation busting percentages.
Maybe this is all some last push by the directors and major shareholders to make as much money as possible before they kill the hobby off. Who knows????
What I do know is the GW have now lost me as a customer, and in loosing me, they loose 5 others. Now patiently waiting for my next Sodapop Order to arrive
Vaeloris wrote:Sounds like because of the strength of the Canadian economy, we are mostly dodging the bullet. Only codexes/army books, battleforces, and hobby supplies. Almost all plastic boxes are staying the same (according to the owner of my FLGS).
Did you not see the list from the other thread? Canadian prices are rising in the same manner (and on the same products) as US prices. 173 lines, ranging from 1% increases (Bastion) to 25% increases (Black Orcs). The most common increases are the 20% ones on things like Catachans, Gaunts, and so on.
In all honsety I think gw will carry on making money. Every price rise we think it will be the end at yet they carry on. I bet half the people who say they will quit will buy a box of somthing in several months. For at least the next decade or two gw will remian the major company and if we watch carefully I think the other companies that live long enough will end up like gw. Hopefully some of these things will go down in price, they do it with books all the time. When a new novel comes out they sell it for £7.99 and a few months later they sell it for £6.99 so if we are lucky this might go down slightly in a few months. Yelling at the web team does not help because I bet they are as mad as everyone else. It is like complaining to a shelf stacker that the prices are to high in a supermarket.
With all this in mind though one of the things I like about minature is the fact I don't have to buy new ones to be able to be compatible with all the latest thing (like the i-phone, and the i-phone 2 and the i-phone 3g, and the i phone 4g) so once i have bought a box set I never have to throw it away to use it with the next codex.
Some of the rises aren't that bad, but the rises on Battleforces/Battalions is insane. £55, I'd gladly pay, but £60+, is a bit much. Glad to see some of the tanks haven't gone up that much, but in relation to this look at how much an Imperial Guard, Ork or Tyranid army is going to cost now. Those Nid warriors are so not worth £25.
Given the sheer number of metals (now into resin) elites that are must haves in the tyranid army with their price going through the roof and now this farce with the plastics for that range also dramatically increasing...
Puscifer wrote:...look at how much an Imperial Guard, Ork or Tyranid army is going to cost now. Those Nid warriors are so not worth £25.
Nope. £18 for a box of 12 gaunts is also pretty brutal when you think how many little gribblies you need in a vaguely survivable force. Warriors are already not the number one most popular choice in a lot of 'nid lists (this is why I have 21, the lolz are on me) and 25 squids a box is going to more or less kill their sales in 5th edition.
Just picked up my last 4 boxes of gaunts from Dark Sphere (cheers guys). No more 'nids for me after this. Too many pennies
Hey, I dont get why everyone is so upitty about the constant price rises. Please accept it as the way GW work. Dont think of it as the price of the figures increasing, rather see it as the cost of expanding a masssively supported worldwide gaming system. (by that I mean you can pretty much go and play games in any city in the UK or America at a GW store)
There maybe only 3 or 4 you can play at tournament level (Flames of War, Warham and Warmachine?), but gaming isnt just about organised tourneys is it?
Remember, there are literally hundreds of games out there you can play and loads of miniature making companies. I got fed up with paying what I thought was high prices for models, so just made my own. I now have a company that sells them and a decent game for you to play, and download for free, so stop moaning and expand your horizons.
This is not to mention the fact that you can play warhammer with unofficial models. What about making your own? Stand ins for Necrons made from bolts, and what about scrunts, quar and the multitude of tanks, soldiers and aliens on the market?
SO to summmarise, Im saying enjoy the service that GW offers, which is unlike any other comany. This level of service costs, and is constantly rising in cost.
If this annoys you too much, then welcome to the ranks of the older, more mature gamer who loves finding great companies to support, making unique armies and playing fun games.
I'm a believer that if GW is gonna hose their loyal customers that the customers should resort to things like piracy. Buy a box of minis, make your own and sell some on ebay to recoup the cost. I'd rather just buy my minis at the local game store but when it becomes unaffordable i'll have no problem to minting my own or buying from someone else that does.
I love the paragraph Darksphere have on their website
"In addition, they have altered their terms and conditions for independents meaning that we will no longer be able to send their products outside of the EU. We will also not be able to get new foreign language rulebooks, codices, etc until 8 weeks after their launch. We have no indication of price rises being on the horizon for Wamachine, Malifaux, Dystopian Wars or Mantic, all of which we can still send anywhere in the world and are growing in popularity."
in a wierd way I am not bothered about the prise increases. I have taken stock of the situation and come to realise its too expensive for me. I will finish off my eldar army (two more purchases) and thats me done for the most part.
I have armies I can play with. Theres no way I will start another. It feels good I can spend my money on other things.
I might pick up the odd occasional thing in the future but only if I have nothing else to build or paint.
I've got a pretty much finished Tau army (with plenty left to paint) and I managed to get a MASSIVE amount of Sisters of Battle for £50...Included TWO exorcists, 4 Rhinos, at least 40 Sisters, two Penitent engines etc They do need a lot of work on them but it will keep me going for months.
I've started Flames of War now and with about £50 spent I've got enough for small-medium level games already!!!! Bonkers.
This price rise won't force me out of the various GW games (why should I stop playing games I enjoy?) but it's defintely forcing me to re-evaluate my purchasing habits. I might have to abandon my plans for a Dark Eldar and Tomb King armies, plus my Empire may never go beyond the 1000pts I currently have.
Oh well if I want any new armies of any sort I'll have to look at other game systems.
gr1m_dan wrote:I love the paragraph Darksphere have on their website
"In addition, they have altered their terms and conditions for independents meaning that we will no longer be able to send their products outside of the EU. We will also not be able to get new foreign language rulebooks, codices, etc until 8 weeks after their launch. We have no indication of price rises being on the horizon for Wamachine, Malifaux, Dystopian Wars or Mantic, all of which we can still send anywhere in the world and are growing in popularity."
Automatically Appended Next Post: Also, for those who're (rightly) steamed by this.
Time to whip out the old pencil and paper scrap.
If we all sent letters to GW protesting the decisions (from worldwide, as well), they may actually be tempted to listen for a change.
I know lots of people are going to poo-poo this idea, but frankly, GW ignores the internet. If we each wrote & sent 1 letter a week, they'd have to address it.
I'll be doing it anyway.
Write to:
C/O CEO & Board of Directors
Games Workshop Limited
Willow Road
Lenton
Nottingham
NG7 2WS
United Kingdom
To Whom it Concerns,
I am a customer of your company for the last [x] years.
In that time, you have raised prices for various reasons.
Recently you have decided to change how independent stockists sell your product as well as inducting yet another price rise.
This price rise is due to the change to a cheaper manufacturing medium, and cannot be justified.
What is the justification for this unwarranted price rise?
You continually ignore people's pleas online to be more reasonable in your policies and communicate with the community you have built over 30 years.
You do not respond to the feedback of the community and seem content to price-gouge and ignore the self-same community that built your company up to be, in your own words, "the largest and the most successful tabletop fantasy and futuristic battle-games company in the world."
The mood through the community is rife with dissatisfaction at your policies, complete lack of communication and what appears to be disregard for your loyal customer base.
I would like to see if this letter is replied to, and if so, what justifications I will be given for the questions I have asked.
To Summarise:
1. What justification and reasons are there to the price rise being implemented on May 28th, 2011?
2. Why is there a price rise on products being moved to a cheaper production medium?
3. What justification is there for the policy change to EU and Overseas independent retailers?
4. Why are Games Workshop's loyal customers being ignored and treated badly?
5. Why is there a reported change to new product advertising to 1 week before release?
6. How does Games Workshop intend to address the very real concerns of its customer base?
I look forward to hearing from you, with answers to these concerns.
Nick Ellingworth wrote:This price rise won't force me out of the various GW games (why should I stop playing games I enjoy?) but it's defintely forcing me to re-evaluate my purchasing habits. I might have to abandon my plans for a Dark Eldar and Tomb King armies, plus my Empire may never go beyond the 1000pts I currently have.
Oh well if I want any new armies of any sort I'll have to look at other game systems.
That's the thing. Carry on playing the system, I had many a good game when I played and met some great people. However just try and control the wargamers desire to have everything
I'm sure they'll notice if everybody just carries on playing, but doesn't rush out and buy the latest release. Recycle.
I shall continue with my support for GW. Bought a whole load of new tomb kings stuff today for around £200. I make no apology for this, and here's the reason why:
I got my Zoanthropes for something like £10.50 a year ago from Maelstrom. They are going up to £15.50.
Then consider there isn't much point having fewer than three, and you need a Pod (which GWdon't MAKE!111) but if they did you would be looking at another £25 for that and suddenly a single unit in the Tyranid army is over £70.
I'm done with GW til the new Necrons are released, just put in my last order with you guys at Dark Sphere til those bad boys are released. These GW prices are ridiculous, as if they weren't already mind you, £20 for an army book is border line crazy and £41 for a Land Raider? I could buy a new video game for less than that much.
Antonius wrote:
Also, for those who're (rightly) steamed by this.
Time to whip out the old pencil and paper scrap.
If we all sent letters to GW protesting the decisions (from worldwide, as well), they may actually be tempted to listen for a change.
Yep, I sent mine today and I'm not buying anything until I get a response.
Oh great. I guess I can kiss my planned Grey Knight army good bye with these new price rises. DAMN YOU MEDIOCRE TEENAGE FUNDING! DAMN YOU GAMES WORKSHOP! DAMN YOU FLYING SPAGHETTI MONSTER! DAMN YOU ALL!
I think the point people miss when they say why will this stop me playing et etc is that many of the army books are due for a change and we all know that involves some form of rejigging. Same applies to codices one would presume.
This just means to me I'll probably only buy GW models I can't get anywhere else (Damn direct order DX) and will buy Dark Sphere or other such sites
Oh and of course eBay lol. Then again I haven't bought any actual GW in over a year now if you discount a lone Warhammer Forge purchase, which isn't affected by the numerous price rises
I got my Zoanthropes for something like £10.50 a year ago from Maelstrom. They are going up to £15.50.
Then consider there isn't much point having fewer than three, and you need a Pod (which GWdon't MAKE!111) but if they did you would be looking at another £25 for that and suddenly a single unit in the Tyranid army is over £70.
Hive Guard are going up to £15.50 a pop too :( And Tyranids need them, desperately. But be fair to GW: they cheered me up with the hilarious joke of £21.50 for a Pyrovore.
Is it just me, or is there no Sisters or Necron stuff getting a price increase?
I might actually be able to get the necron army after all... just maybe... Of course, from a discounter, but at least I won't be paying close to what it originally cost even with discounts.
I got my Zoanthropes for something like £10.50 a year ago from Maelstrom. They are going up to £15.50.
Then consider there isn't much point having fewer than three, and you need a Pod (which GWdon't MAKE!111) but if they did you would be looking at another £25 for that and suddenly a single unit in the Tyranid army is over £70.
Hive Guard are going up to £15.50 a pop too :( And Tyranids need them, desperately. But be fair to GW: they cheered me up with the hilarious joke of £21.50 for a Pyrovore.
No-one buys them anyway, because they are rubbish.
Amusingly, considering my comment about the extortionate price of Raveners -- see above -- I use Raveners to convert into my Hive Guards. Bought either from Maelstrom or secondhand.
Even after buying some crab claws and venom cannons for the conversion, my Ravener to Hive Guard conversion is still under £10 a model.
As much as I'd love to finsih my DE, I won't be. I went down stairs to my game collection after I got this news, and had a look at my stuff. I have 3-4 playable armies. I don't need more. I looked around at other games I enjoy, and promptly spent $14 on Catalyst games PDF's that will keep me going for some time.
Its frustrating, because I truly enjoy games set in the 40K universe, but can't justify supporting these sort of practices. Oh well...
Avatar 720 wrote:Is it just me, or is there no Sisters or Necron stuff getting a price increase?
I might actually be able to get the necron army after all... just maybe... Of course, from a discounter, but at least I won't be paying close to what it originally cost even with discounts.
Hopefully, it's because they are upcoming releases in the near future.
Waaagh_Gonads wrote:They are putting up the price on the starter set again?
The idea is to get kids hooked on th egame, not have them turn around and walk off because of the enormous start up costs.
That's what tantrums are for. They're relying on the parents bringing the kids, the kids throwing a wobbler and the parents forking out cash to shut the bugger up.
To Summarise:
1. What justification and reasons are there to the price rise being implemented on May 28th, 2011?
2. Why is there a price rise on products being moved to a cheaper production medium?
3. What justification is there for the policy change to EU and Overseas independent retailers?
4. Why are Games Workshop's loyal customers being ignored and treated badly?
5. Why is there a reported change to new product advertising to 1 week before release?
6. How does Games Workshop intend to address the very real concerns of its customer base?
I look forward to hearing from you, with answers to these concerns.
Yours,
[NAME]
You are just being nieve!
1. They have an obligation to increase shareholder returns.
2. GW provides a service not just a product. You are paying for the service and of course the brand.
3. To have more control over pricing, so as to return greater revenue.
4. This is a whole topic of conversation. The bottom line is GW is a company and has no obligation to anyone other than its shareholders. "Supporting" the "loyal customers" does not nessisarily increase profits.
5. Most companies do not advertise a price increase. Companies do not have any obligation to inform customers. They can change there pricing when they like with no notification.
6.This is a loaded question. GW sell models and books. WHat you do with them is up to you. If you do not like the product, dont buy it.
I would go on to say that the customer base that GW want are first time buyers, or new customers. This "loyal customer base" you talk about is actually a resource drain on GW. People like you who constantly attack the operating policies of a company that is simply trying to markey plastic models and books. The company does not in any way have a responsibility to provide you with low cost models or well integrated gaming rules systems.
There are better rules systems, better models, cheaper manufacturers and companies that support there product better. I suggest you investigate these rather than thinking writing letters is going to make a large company change its pricing policy!
Think of it like a car dealership. If all anybody did was buy a car there, they'd be out of business in no time. True, they'd make a little bit of cash - but the real money comes from selling parts, warranties, ripping people off on trades, repeat buyers, etc.
GW needs it's veterans. Why? Because without their recurring purchases, without their commitment to doing all of the word of mouth marketing the company swears by, you'd have no business. Yes, you can hope and pray that enough kids will funnel through the mall stores to keep the lights on, but if nobody is there playing and having a good time - if there is no social aspect to get the kids gaming together, no "crowd" to hang with, the moms are just in a WAY overpriced toy store, and will move on.
Hell, the only reason many moms will even entertain the idea of buying this stuff is because they want their kids out doing something other than sitting in front of the tv and playing video games. They want their kids getting socialized out of the house and if the kid won't play sports, they figure this is worth a shot.
Without anyone there to socialize with, their kids will get bored of their overpriced toy soldiers and will quickly move onto the next fad. However, if all their friends are doing it, and all of the people down at the shop are encouraging their hobby, then that's something else.
This hobby isn't just a diorama of little plastic men - it's about the people that make it what it is. Going to your LGS and having a great game on a lazy saturday is what it's all about. It's about showing off your long hours of hard work as you bring in your latest painted army. It's the excitement that brings people together, and it's the sharing of the experience through playing games that makes this as worthwhile as it is.
Without a dedicated hobby community, GW is just a toy store selling crap to kids that likely will never come back - and without that repeat business, there's no revenue stream. You'd be surprised how little many GW stores actually make and how integral the veteran hobby community is to non-gwLGS stores across the world.
During the week I went into the local model shop and told him about the coming 20% price rises as he's a new shop and only just starting to deal with GW. I went in again today and he said the 20% price rise was as he rang GW after I left and they told him it was only a 4% rise at most! Due to this he ordered some more stuff hoping to attract more customers. Lets say he wasn't to happy when I showed him the real price rises and is going to ring them again on Monday...
Thrax wrote:GW needs it's veterans. Why? Because without their recurring purchases, without their commitment to doing all of the word of mouth marketing the company swears by, you'd have no business.
I see more and more GW marketing done at a younger and younger level. The store snags hapless visitors, who then tell their mates of this "cool new thing". Us old-timers are not needed or wanted for anything anymore. I would never recommend GW games to any friend or relative, and would in fact try to talk anyone asking for my opinion out of it. In so doing I hope I am a net drain on the company coffers.
Ramshackle_Curtis wrote:
You are just being nieve!
1. They have an obligation to increase shareholder returns.
2. GW provides a service not just a product. You are paying for the service and of course the brand.
3. To have more control over pricing, so as to return greater revenue.
4. This is a whole topic of conversation. The bottom line is GW is a company and has no obligation to anyone other than its shareholders. "Supporting" the "loyal customers" does not nessisarily increase profits.
5. Most companies do not advertise a price increase. Companies do not have any obligation to inform customers. They can change there pricing when they like with no notification.
6.This is a loaded question. GW sell models and books. WHat you do with them is up to you. If you do not like the product, dont buy it.
I would go on to say that the customer base that GW want are first time buyers, or new customers. This "loyal customer base" you talk about is actually a resource drain on GW. People like you who constantly attack the operating policies of a company that is simply trying to markey plastic models and books. The company does not in any way have a responsibility to provide you with low cost models or well integrated gaming rules systems.
There are better rules systems, better models, cheaper manufacturers and companies that support there product better. I suggest you investigate these rather than thinking writing letters is going to make a large company change its pricing policy!
As I said. I knew people would poo-poo it. Thanks for proving me right.
Every single thing that you have answered with seems ripped verbatim from the "letter" posted by GW.
Perhaps you work for them?
To address what you have accused me of being naïve about:
1. As consumers of GW's self admitted niche product we hold an active stake in the company. Our purchasing decisions inform profits which in turn inform shareholders.
2. GW do sell a product and a service. So do people like Volkswagen, Apple and others. You can bet you behind they get constant customer feedback to improve the products and services. Both good and bad feedback.
3. Why not just shut down every single indie store the world over to control it? Oh, wait. Point 1…
4. I call bull on this. If a company that deals with the public has no obligation to it's customers it isn't in business long. Example time: Apple, a publicly listed company, with shareholders AND a form of customer service, has been awarded the best customer service for the 11th year in a row. And Apple products are increasing in sales all the time, in part due to advertising and in part because of satisfied veteran customers telling people their good experiences with them.
5. I made no mention of a price increase. I made mention of announcement of products. Unless, unbeknownst to everyone GW has been selling price points packaged as wargaming miniatures for 30 years?
6. You only believe it's a loaded question. You are a customer if you buy their product and use it, but only if I use it the way it's intended to?
So when I buy bread from Tesco that's got a picture of a ham sandwich on it and I make a jam sandwich and find the bread is stale, do I lose my rights, as I didn't make a ham sandwich? Of course not! What your answer amounts to is "suck it up or play warmahordes"
As it's my money I do choose where I spend it. But I enjoy GW stuff. So in my asking for answers to enable me to support a company, you're basically telling me "tough. Give GW your money and stop complaining or buy something else"
Which, frankly is as ostrich a move as GW's current decisions.
It's kinda sad that I'm thinking of not trading away some of my unused miniatures because to rebuy them later would probably cost me twice as much money. Like I'm hording gold and silver or something..
great business management at its best. im actually surprised they havent gone bankrupt from how bad they treat their customers (bit hypocritical as i do buy some of their products from time to time..)
hell i think a GCSE business student could run their business better than the overpriced suit monkeys do. and this is coming from a business AS student.
chaoz wrote:great business management at its best. im actually surprised they havent gone bankrupt from how bad they treat their customers (bit hypocritical as i do buy some of their products from time to time..)
hell i think a GCSE business student could run their business better than the overpriced suit monkeys do. and this is coming from a business AS student.
Hey guys, got the price rise list from GW today, i hate having to reprice all my stock, because everyone's going to be really annoyed :( anyway, sorry if this has already be posted, a picture or two of what i could take. Sorry for the poor image quality.
Sorry, that's all i could get hold of today. There's lots of things that are staying the same., particularly the Dark Eldar stuff.
sphynx wrote:Hey guys, got the price rise list from GW today, i hate having to reprice all my stock, because everyone's going to be really annoyed :(
...
...
.
That's OK, you don't have to.
Retail Price Maintenance is illegal in the UK. Sell your stuff for whatever price you like, not what GW say.
Mick A wrote:During the week I went into the local model shop and told him about the coming 20% price rises as he's a new shop and only just starting to deal with GW. I went in again today and he said the 20% price rise was as he rang GW after I left and they told him it was only a 4% rise at most! Due to this he ordered some more stuff hoping to attract more customers. Lets say he wasn't to happy when I showed him the real price rises and is going to ring them again on Monday...
Mick
That increase will be what the retailers buy it for, not what customers pay for it.
Waaagh_Gonads wrote:They are putting up the price on the starter set again?
The idea is to get kids hooked on the game, not have them turn around and walk off because of the enormous start up costs.
That's what tantrums are for. They're relying on the parents bringing the kids, the kids throwing a wobbler and the parents forking out cash to shut the bugger up.
Any parents will tell you that pester power doesn't work if you just laugh at your mewling offspring as they paddy about on the floor.
I may give in for a bag of sweets. £60 a pop? get lost! It's a good job my lads are very conscious of how far their money goes. they want more bang for their buck.
Im so mad about this well at least I bought a battle force befor price increace I also need to get cornel iorn hand starken in meatl befor i cant find him any more.
xXH0LYCRUSAD3Xx wrote:Im so mad about this well at least I bought a battle force befor price increace I also need to get cornel iorn hand starken in meatl befor i cant find him any more.
I freely admit I may have got some of this wrong, people who are particularly interested should look up the numbers and work it out for themselves.
The average salary in australia, converted into £ is £44k apprx.
The average salary in the EU, converted into £ is £33k apprx.
The average salary in the US, converted into £ is £29k apprx.
The average salary in Japan, converted into £ is £26k apprx.
The average salary in the UK is £25k apprx.
The average salary in NZ, converted into £ is £19k apprx.
If you convert the price of a Dwarf warriors regiment into £, then express this as a % of the average salary:
New Zealand: 0.15%
Japan: 0.12%
UK: 0.08%
EUAv. (used french prices): 0.079%
Australia: 0.075%
US: 0.070%
So what does this show?
Not much really, as it ignores postage, tax and the general cost of living...
But. As a % of their average income, australians and americans pay half as much as new zealanders and less than people in the UK.
xXH0LYCRUSAD3Xx wrote:Im so mad about this well at least I bought a battle force befor price increace I also need to get cornel iorn hand starken in meatl befor i cant find him any more.
Waaagh_Gonads wrote:They are putting up the price on the starter set again?
The idea is to get kids hooked on the game, not have them turn around and walk off because of the enormous start up costs.
That's what tantrums are for. They're relying on the parents bringing the kids, the kids throwing a wobbler and the parents forking out cash to shut the bugger up.
Any parents will tell you that pester power doesn't work if you just laugh at your mewling offspring as they paddy about on the floor.
I may give in for a bag of sweets. £60 a pop? get lost! It's a good job my lads are very conscious of how far their money goes. they want more bang for their buck.
The amounts of parents I see who give in to their child's every whim just to appease them and stop all the staring is astonishing. Parents who let their children scream their heads off in the middle of a shopping centre are usually very thick-skinned, and somewhat rare around here, because crowds will hear a screaming child and will give a synchronised evil-stare at the parent who will then promise their child whatever they want so they stop bawling.
I freely admit I may have got some of this wrong, people who are particularly interested should look up the numbers and work it out for themselves.
The average salary in australia, converted into £ is £44k apprx.
The average salary in the EU, converted into £ is £33k apprx.
The average salary in the US, converted into £ is £29k apprx.
The average salary in Japan, converted into £ is £26k apprx.
The average salary in the UK is £25k apprx.
The average salary in NZ, converted into £ is £19k apprx.
If you convert the price of a Dwarf warriors regiment into £, then express this as a % of the average salary:
New Zealand: 0.15%
Japan: 0.12%
UK: 0.08%
EUAv. (used french prices): 0.079%
Australia: 0.075%
US: 0.070%
So what does this show?
Not much really, as it ignores postage, tax and the general cost of living...
But. As a % of their average income, australians and americans pay half as much as new zealanders and less than people in the UK.
I just did a similar exercise here GW Response thread, but have come to a different conclusion since I used the respective countries retail price of AoBR/40K rulebook.
Now while I freely admit that this is not extensive research it does indicate that GW are treating everyone similarly across the globe.
So if I have that "average" job in any of these counties it will cost me about 3 hours labour to get a 40K rulebook.
GW have closed a loophole that was damaging their distribution customers (contracts work both ways) at the expense of savvy Aussies/Kiwis.
Off the back of this, one would hope that those FLGS down under will now increase support of GW products and strengthen the local wargaming communities. Sorry just trying to see a silver lining here for those that have lost out of a cheap supply.
I'm not buying directly and I'm not buying anything new once I get the CSM squad and rhino I need to finish my army. After that, if I DO buy anything new, it will strictly be through eBay and third-party suppliers.
It does appear direct order will diminish very very fast, whether it's advanced order or just buying stuff in store. I know I've lately left cash and any cards behind so I don't spend anything instore.
As it is any models I want, well, Darksphere is where I'll get it from
Since about 2001 when they started milking Marines absolutely, their income has decreased. So like idiots they're increasing the prices of everything and marketing Marines more. Stupid, much?
RiTides wrote:I just noticed how few DE items are on the price increase list... that's welcome news, to me at least!
You see I think this is just shrewd marketing, we know they've heavily invested in the new DE line, with all the plastics and design time etc, so I think they're trying to keep them as low priced as possible in order to shift more, in order to recoup the investment.
Quite why they believe nothing else deserves low pricing, I'll never know. Of course, outside of blogs etc, from my area of the world the DE don't seem to be shifting at all, purely anecdotal of course.
You dont HAVE to reprice your stock, however given your supply costs are going up as well you'd be mad not to; you'll be selling below cost on some items otherwise.
I can now say with certainty that me and my current gaming group have moved on from GW as a company, and away from 40K as a whole. After the years of customer abuse, and general disregard for the people who pay their salaries as a group we've decided the juice (more like acid) was not worth the squeeze(more like being stuck in an Iron Maiden).
To those of you who will continue to support them, I praise your sense of loyalty! And I vehemently hope that one day GW will be worthy of the fans who live and breathe their particular game.
There are also a number of people who will substitute similar looking models. If you've already got the rules, you don't play tournaments, then why not?
Some guys here recently started a Necromunda campaign. A lot of the guys didn't want to pay the exorbitant of buying the gangs from GW. So they bought models from other companies that suited that gang. So they're playing GW's product, but GW gets no payment for it.
Some of these guys have long wanted to play 40k but the cost of it has put them off for years and years. They only recently bit the bullet and started collecting. It's not a far stretch for them to do what they did with Necromunda. If you're only playing with friends, they're not gonna mind if you say "that $10 tank of the same dimensions as a Leman Russ is a Leman Russ".
So 40k will be played...with no additional money going to GW. I know this will be a very small percentage of players, but it's still more people not buying GW because they're disgusted with what's happening and/or just outright can no longer afford it.
Darkvoidof40k wrote:Will I stop buying from them? Yes. Will I stop playing 40k? Hell no.
There's no reason to stop playing, just to stop buying. Or buying GW at any rate. I like the Warhammer universes and their fluff, I quite like their games too especially Necromunda and Space Hulk. The only difficulty sometimes is in finding players especially if you play an older version of a game, but there's plenty of joy to be had from GW products without continuing to buy from them.
Darkvoidof40k wrote:Will I stop buying from them? Yes. Will I stop playing 40k? Hell no.
/correct thread response
/thread
I feel quite the opposite. I stopped playing 40k and Fantasy 2 years ago and it did wonders for my blood pressure. No more rules arguments, no more fretting over the ugly and/or expensive models I have to buy to stay competitive... now I just buy whatever I feel like painting if and when I have the cash and inclination. It's amazing how much easier it is to handle GW's bull if you think of them as just another miniature company amongst many and not the sole supplier of your plastic crack. They can only hurt you if you care.
My brother and I just created our own sci-fi universe and are using whatever models we like such as Khurasan and Old Crow. There are so many rule sets out there that you can use, and many of them are much better than GWs. And of course you can decide your own limits, paint what you like, model what you like. And more importantly, your wallet won't need therapy.
One thing I'm curious about but don't have the numbers to reference, is whether the products with higher price hikes haven't gotten any in a while.
What got me wondering about it was that a lot of stuff is having their prices unchanged for now, and that the Tactical Squad is going up by less than 10% in Canada, from 42 dollars to 45 dollars. The latter reminded me that between at least 5-6 years ago and now, the price of a Tactical Squad remained unchanged. After that length of time, even assuming a modest 3% inflation rate, a ~10% price hike is still well below inflation rates.
Albeit, there are examples I've heard about that blow that idea out of the water, the first being the AoBR set which has apparently gone up by over 50% in the past 3 years. Another would be the Imperial Guard plastic Infantry Squads, which have gone from 40 dollars for 20 to 35 dollars for 10 in the same time frame as the Tactical Squad example above, effectively a 75% price increase for the same number of Guardsmen. Both of these are well beyond inflation rates.
Still, it'd be interesting to at least look at the numbers since the products' last price 'adjustments.'
Not trying to apologize for GW though. They've done a lot of stuff I dislike, but I like their plastic crack more.
Thanks for the heads up. Is there any chance you could run an infinity demo?
We've scheduled a whole pile of intro games and other such events so people can get a chance to see some of the other systems (Monsterpocalyspe, Flames of War, Dystopian Wars, Uncharted Seas, Firestorm Armada, Mantic, etc as well as some participation games for 40K and Fantasy.
Full schedule is on the events calendar on our shop page http://www.darksphere.co.uk/shop.php#calendar . The Infinity demo is scheduled for 2nd July and very shortly the entire Infinity range should be in store...
We've got lots more to add to the schedule including Malifaux demos, some more Warmachine stuff and probably a Blood Bowl event as well !
I have no ida if it's been discused before but if I remember correctly the AoBR box set has always been good value for money. So if they can produce a box set like this, why are the other box sets so expensive? If it's how the models are laid out on the spure then surely a change here could allow GW to drop their box set prices?
Personally I find a price of £1.50 to £2 not outrageously expensive for a multi-part plastic model of basic infantry. It's a lot more than equivalent historicals, but you are paying for the unique look of the models, and you don't need huge numbers of infantry for 40K unless you are IG, Nids or Orks.
The problem with 40K is that you need a bunch of much more expensive models as well as the basic troops in order to make an army.
Let's say you want to play Tyranids and you buy three Zoanthropes, three Hive Guard and three Venomthropes for your Elite slots. After the introduction of Finecost that will set you back £132.90, FOR NINE MEDIUM SIZE MODELS, and it isn't remotely a playable army.
Let's say you want to play Tyranids and you buy three Zoanthropes, three Hive Guard and three Venomthropes for your Elite slots. After the introduction of Finecost that will set you back £132.90, FOR NINE MEDIUM SIZE MODELS, and it isn't remotely a playable army.
25% price increase due to 25% extra flash (and 15% less detail)
but remember, games workshop models aren't as expensive as a $600 camera lens, so it's still a cheap hobby
LunaHound wrote:Saw this , and had to paste it :'D
25% price increase due to 25% extra flash (and 15% less detail)
but remember, games workshop models aren't as expensive as a $600 camera lens, so it's still a cheap hobby
I like where Mantic have announced that because they're switching over to resin which is cheaper, they're not dropping the price but giving you twice the models for the same price.....
LunaHound wrote:Saw this , and had to paste it :'D
25% price increase due to 25% extra flash (and 15% less detail)
but remember, games workshop models aren't as expensive as a $600 camera lens, so it's still a cheap hobby
But when Nikon bring out a new camera body, I don't have to change that lens You also find that the 300mm lens is still valid as a 300mm lens
LunaHound wrote:Saw this , and had to paste it :'D
25% price increase due to 25% extra flash (and 15% less detail)
but remember, games workshop models aren't as expensive as a $600 camera lens, so it's still a cheap hobby
I really hope it wasn't GW who said this. If it was, there needs to be a public witchhunt; because NOTHING has been a bigger slap in the face to fans than that quote if it actually came from GW.
LunaHound wrote:Saw this , and had to paste it :'D
25% price increase due to 25% extra flash (and 15% less detail)
but remember, games workshop models aren't as expensive as a $600 camera lens, so it's still a cheap hobby
I really hope it wasn't GW who said this. If it was, there needs to be a public witchhunt; because NOTHING has been a bigger slap in the face to fans than that quote if it actually came from GW.
Why would GW advertise their new figures as having less detail than before?
LunaHound wrote:Saw this , and had to paste it :'D
25% price increase due to 25% extra flash (and 15% less detail)
but remember, games workshop models aren't as expensive as a $600 camera lens, so it's still a cheap hobby
I really hope it wasn't GW who said this. If it was, there needs to be a public witchhunt; because NOTHING has been a bigger slap in the face to fans than that quote if it actually came from GW.
Why would GW advertise their new figures as having less detail than before?
because they suck at making their sounds product sound good and plus the CradleKnight is dreadfully overpriced.
I honestly don't see how GW can keep raising its prices like this? what do they coat the models with some sort of class A drug, is that why they think people can't get enough of them?
LunaHound wrote:Saw this , and had to paste it :'D
25% price increase due to 25% extra flash (and 15% less detail)
but remember, games workshop models aren't as expensive as a $600 camera lens, so it's still a cheap hobby
I really hope it wasn't GW who said this. If it was, there needs to be a public witchhunt; because NOTHING has been a bigger slap in the face to fans than that quote if it actually came from GW.
Why would GW advertise their new figures as having less detail than before?
Because after every other decision they've recently made, it wouldn't surprise me too much. Before the recent decisions...I would say they couldn't be dumb enough to make an announcement like this. After recent events....I wouldn't be too surprised
itsonlyme wrote:I honestly don't see how GW can keep raising its prices like this? what do they coat the models with some sort of class A drug, is that why they think people can't get enough of them?
Actually I thought this price increase was pretty meh. Maybe it's the Euro prices, but for the most part, I didn't find them too bad. Land Raider went from 50 euros to 52 euros, big deal. Given that the last major price hike was 2 years ago, that is hardly too bad.
There were several individual WTF items, though. Tau Sniper Drone team now costs 32.5 euros. That's really lot from 3 small drones and their one small controller. Given how common Gun Drones are, who will ever buy them? Conversion ftw! Some other Finecast items got really nasty price increases too. Also, Tau Battleforce (which was one of the best Battleforces) went up 15 euros! They're really milking the box sets.
What gets my goat is how GW prices individual character models. Astorath is now 30 bucks. Lillith hesperax is 21 bucks. 5 DE incubi are 50 bucks. So one astorath is 30 with just one model, yet 5 models of incubi are just 20 bucks more. I really want to pick up some individual characters but just cannot bring myself to be gouged. Ebay will be my friend hopefully. I'd honestly love to see people casting GW minis in their own resin and sell at reasonable prices. Not the most morally acceptable solution but it would sure piss off GW.
misfit wrote:What gets my goat is how GW prices individual character models. Astorath is now 30 bucks. Lillith hesperax is 21 bucks. 5 DE incubi are 50 bucks. So one astorath is 30 with just one model, yet 5 models of incubi are just 20 bucks more. I really want to pick up some individual characters but just cannot bring myself to be gouged. Ebay will be my friend hopefully. I'd honestly love to see people casting GW minis in their own resin and sell at reasonable prices. Not the most morally acceptable solution but it would sure piss off GW.
And given the horrors of GW's finecast releases, the pirated copies would probably be better than the ones GW sells.
Backfire wrote:Actually I thought this price increase was pretty meh. Maybe it's the Euro prices, but for the most part, I didn't find them too bad. Land Raider went from 50 euros to 52 euros, big deal. Given that the last major price hike was 2 years ago, that is hardly too bad.
There were several individual WTF items, though. Tau Sniper Drone team now costs 32.5 euros. That's really lot from 3 small drones and their one small controller. Given how common Gun Drones are, who will ever buy them? Conversion ftw! Some other Finecast items got really nasty price increases too. Also, Tau Battleforce (which was one of the best Battleforces) went up 15 euros! They're really milking the box sets.
For me I think the tipping point for excepting price rises was some time ago, sure its only a few pounds here but it does add up very quickly, just look at the Tactical marines, when they first came out they used to cost £10, yes its slightly different now but I don't think a extra shoulder pad and 2 special weapons is really worth £12, maybe a £1-2 at best, guess that means the rest is inflation! at the end of the day they have pretty damn big margins on the models so every time they raise the price and you go "oh that's ok", you are really just allowing them to sell you less for more. I always think of it running about the streets burning money, what makes it even more funny is most of you could easily get by without buying more models, if you like me you probably have a whole load still waiting to be painted!
misfit wrote:What gets my goat is how GW prices individual character models. Astorath is now 30 bucks. Lillith hesperax is 21 bucks. 5 DE incubi are 50 bucks. So one astorath is 30 with just one model, yet 5 models of incubi are just 20 bucks more. I really want to pick up some individual characters but just cannot bring myself to be gouged. Ebay will be my friend hopefully. I'd honestly love to see people casting GW minis in their own resin and sell at reasonable prices. Not the most morally acceptable solution but it would sure piss off GW.
And given the horrors of GW's finecast releases, the pirated copies would probably be better than the ones GW sells.
Sad state of affairs.
Probably right on the money there. Anyone have a spare astorath kicking around, i'm buying a resin kit.
'd.
)
as he rang 
