I'm a relatively new player into Warhammer 40k, I have finally narrowed down my armies to Chaos Space Marines and Tau. One of my friends plays Necron, and boy does he love his Monolith. He calls it lithy, it is rather cool, but the problem is it is a scary beast on the tabletop. I am afraid once we move to higher point games he shall start fielding them in droves. So does anyone have any grand ideas on how to take it down, or at least something to give my CSM's or Tau fighting chance. Any tips will be much appreciated.
P.S:I have alrdy heard the advice of more rail guns, and i have procured a great many Hammerheads so I am aware of at least that strategy.

You invoke God's name and hope he smites it.

Either ignore it completly and go for the Phase Out against the rest of his army or railgun it to death.
It is pretty difficult any other way.

On a more serious note, a well equiped tau broudside team can take down a monolith every turn almost every turn.
Chaos marines just shoot it with lascannons from a land raider. That doesent work quite so well as the railguns though. The princes can just jump around and kill everything in cc. nevermind liths.

Step one: Be Irish
Step two: Get green dice
Step three: Shoot a single lascannon at said Monolith
Step four: Watch it explode
Step five: Repeat process twice more

Kid you not...this actually happened. I was livid

Honestly, no race excels at killing heavy armour as much as the Tau do. Rail guns are your answer for any heavy tank/vehicle.

As for CSMs, as someone already mentioned, use las cannons.

timetowaste85 wrote:Step one: Be Irish
Step two: Get green dice
Step three: Shoot a single lascannon at said Monolith
Step four: Watch it explode
Step five: Repeat process twice more

Kid you not...this actually happened. I was livid

Any chance of the dice being weighted?

First off, stay more than 30" away from it. It's maximum range is 30" (6" move, 24" particle whip). If it deepstrikes into your army, kill it as soon as possible, because it's flux arc will literally rip yopu to shreds (unless he has unlucky rolling). You need railguns, as you already posted. Grab a broadside team, or whatever ther'ye called, and dump all the rounds on the monolith. The monolith is the only decent target to shoot them at anyway (except for lords and C'tan, he shouldn't be fieldingt them anyway) Remember that the monolith costs 235 points, and so is a rather big point sink. Don't try to glance it, hit it with the biggest, baddest thing you got (rail gun), or ignore it. But my advice is really not to ignore it. With them he can almost indefinitely keep his squad alive, a 3+ save, 4+ WBB, and then a second 4+ WBB is hard to deal with. Remember he can also take it in a 750 point game, so make suer to always bring some railguns. If playing in a 750 point game, bring lots of anti-MEQ and then focus on a squad at a time. If you can try, attempt to wipe out all the warriors, but remember to focus fire. If you have rail guns, shoot all your weapons (minus the rail guns), at the warriors, and before you shoot rail guns, try and wipe out the warriors (or at least one squad). IF there's only a few left, shoot the warriors. IF theres more warriors, or even amount (oh wait, you have submunitions. Use those), shoot them, not the monolith. Get rid of warriiors first. If that's not possible, take out the Mono. If he's fielding it in a 750 points game (which is reasonably probable if he plays Necron's well), don't shoot the mono.Remember he has 21 necrons at that level. Phase out specifics are 25% remaining after WBB, so you just need to bring him down to 5 necrons. Make sure you find out which squad his lord is in, or if it's on its on, focus fire on it. Shoot your railguns at his lord. If he fails the WBB for his lord, and hopefull the second, you win.

Source: myself as a necron

Ignore it. Focus on phase out. If he has a C'tan, shoot it and you may take some of his warriors with it. Engage in close combat, especially with power weapons.

Pretty much, that's the best way to kill a monolith.

As Chaos Marines or Tau, you have two of the best ways to take one down in the game. The railguns you have on Broadsides and Hammerheads is good at taking Monoliths out. The demolisher cannon on a Chaos Vindicator is also effective. I took one out turn 2 with a demolisher cannon before.

Out of curiosity, why is a Chaos vindicator better than a standard one? I don't play Chaos.

SoloFalcon1138 wrote:Out of curiosity, why is a Chaos vindicator better than a standard one? I don't play Chaos.

Its not really better and it is more expensive than loyalist version.

To be honest, if you end up playing as Chaos, completely ignore it if possible and just go for the phase out. If you're dead set on killing it with shooting, though, the Vindicator is the best way to go (S10 + Ordnance Rules). As Tau, on the other hand, you should have Broadsides. They shoot the monolith down fast.

Number one option is to ignore it and focus on killing his Warriors and other thingys to force a phase out.

NUmber 2 option is to use mass railgun or lascannon fire to take it out.

Devastator wrote:

SoloFalcon1138 wrote:Out of curiosity, why is a Chaos vindicator better than a standard one? I don't play Chaos.

Its not really better and it is more expensive than loyalist version.

Daemonic Possession makes it the second best (arguably tied with the Blood Angels) Vindicator, with only the PotMS BT Vindicator being better...

I got mine hit in the face by a Dreadnought once. S10 really is no joke, it will hurt stuff. My promptly blew up, and killed e Dread and 8 warriors, causng me to phase out.

So Dreads and railrifles. Or ignore it and phase it out.

Thanks for all the helpful tips. I will be sure to purchase many broadsides once i get some money.

Invest in some broadsides, cheapest way to carry railguns.

Rsma77 wrote:I'm a relatively new player into Warhammer 40k, I have finally narrowed down my armies to Chaos Space Marines and Tau. One of my friends plays Necron, and boy does he love his Monolith. He calls it lithy, it is rather cool, but the problem is it is a scary beast on the tabletop. I am afraid once we move to higher point games he shall start fielding them in droves. So does anyone have any grand ideas on how to take it down, or at least something to give my CSM's or Tau fighting chance. Any tips will be much appreciated.
P.S:I have alrdy heard the advice of more rail guns, and i have procured a great many Hammerheads so I am aware of at least that strategy.

You can rip it up with DCCWs (Defilers and Dreadnoughts) or shoot it was lascannons, for your CSM, or shoot it up with Tau Railguns.

The fastest this thing can go is 6" per turn, so you're hitting it on a 4+ at worst in H2H and it's so big it's hardly ever getting a coversave.

A team of broadsides and two hammerheads is all you will ever need. If you want to try an unconventional approach, try emp grenades.

Focus it down or focus on his troops for phase out. Protect your railguns until it goes down, or you have a good chance for phase out.

As for chaos, the easiest method is a demon prince with wings with warptime. Kills liths like paper. Powerfists, obliterators, walkers or defliers work too. Also, so do meltabombs.

Easiest way and a sure way to kill a monolith is get a GK librarian with warp rift. Flamer template which does auto pen on it lol.

and if that didn't work assault with termis which should have a good chance to bring it down.

Otherwise lascannon, rail gun, OR ignore it. You can pretty much kill all his warriors with something with a large blast template.

juraigamer wrote:As for chaos, the easiest method is a demon prince with wings with warptime. Kills liths like paper.

What? A Demon Prince can't do anything to the monolith, Living Metal prohibits the 2D6 Armor Penetration from being a Monstrous Creature.

juraigamer wrote:Also, so do meltabombs.

You do know how Living Metal works, right?

Honestly, as Chaos, S10 is the way to go, from either Vindicators or S10 DCCW from Defilers or Dreads (better, IMO), since the Monolith can only move 6" a turn, letting you hit on a 4+ at worst.

Mr Nobody wrote:Invest in some broadsides, cheapest way to carry railguns.

there is nothing cheap about Broadsides, at least not moneywise

Sabet wrote:First off, stay more than 30" away from it. It's maximum range is 30" (6" move, 24" particle whip). If it deepstrikes into your army, kill it as soon as possible, because it's flux arc will literally rip yopu to shreds (unless he has unlucky rolling). You need railguns, as you already posted. Grab a broadside team, or whatever ther'ye called, and dump all the rounds on the monolith. The monolith is the only decent target to shoot them at anyway (except for lords and C'tan, he shouldn't be fieldingt them anyway) Remember that the monolith costs 235 points, and so is a rather big point sink. Don't try to glance it, hit it with the biggest, baddest thing you got (rail gun), or ignore it. But my advice is really not to ignore it. With them he can almost indefinitely keep his squad alive, a 3+ save, 4+ WBB, and then a second 4+ WBB is hard to deal with. Remember he can also take it in a 750 point game, so make suer to always bring some railguns. If playing in a 750 point game, bring lots of anti-MEQ and then focus on a squad at a time. If you can try, attempt to wipe out all the warriors, but remember to focus fire. If you have rail guns, shoot all your weapons (minus the rail guns), at the warriors, and before you shoot rail guns, try and wipe out the warriors (or at least one squad). IF there's only a few left, shoot the warriors. IF theres more warriors, or even amount (oh wait, you have submunitions. Use those), shoot them, not the monolith. Get rid of warriiors first. If that's not possible, take out the Mono. If he's fielding it in a 750 points game (which is reasonably probable if he plays Necron's well), don't shoot the mono.Remember he has 21 necrons at that level. Phase out specifics are 25% remaining after WBB, so you just need to bring him down to 5 necrons. Make sure you find out which squad his lord is in, or if it's on its on, focus fire on it. Shoot your railguns at his lord. If he fails the WBB for his lord, and hopefull the second, you win.

Source: myself as a necron

This is actually good advice. Could use another edit :p, but is good advice.

Blitza da warboy wrote:

timetowaste85 wrote:Step one: Be Irish
Step two: Get green dice
Step three: Shoot a single lascannon at said Monolith
Step four: Watch it explode
Step five: Repeat process twice more

Kid you not...this actually happened. I was livid

Any chance of the dice being weighted?

Sadly, no. I happen to know because I used to work at the game store he got them from and I personally ordered them for him...

Only time I ever managed to kill a monolith it was with a razorback with lc/pg. I shot it on a whim. Only time that friggin' lith didn't just rebound my shots with anything.
But I've found Vindicators to work well against necrons. Causes ID so unless there's a res orb nearby they're gone for good, and ignores armor saves. Also good against the monolith with 1 exception. If you're in range, so is he. Get a Siege shield and get into some cover so you at least have the cover save if you don't manage to take him out.
No ideas on tau though. I only play SW atm but I've fought necrons more than any other army. How he uses the lith should dictate your tactics imho. Either focus on it until you take it down, or ignore it and go for the phase out.
**edited for clarity***

Heavy weapon teams and manny of them!!

Tau have one of the best anti-monolith weapons: railguns. A good Tau list should have 3-7 railguns available.

Marthike wrote:Easiest way and a sure way to kill a monolith is get a GK librarian with warp rift. Flamer template which does auto pen on it lol.

and if that didn't work assault with termis which should have a good chance to bring it down.

Otherwise lascannon, rail gun, OR ignore it. You can pretty much kill all his warriors with something with a large blast template.

Out of curiosity how can you hurt the monolith with S4 termies with force weapons when monolith is AV14? Unless you have a D10 its pretty impossible.

I would suggest try to cause phase out as both chaos and tau are long range enough to ignore the monolith as it only has a 6" move and 24" range so you can effectively stay away from it all game untill you kill enough necrons to phase them out.

Gavo wrote:

juraigamer wrote:As for chaos, the easiest method is a demon prince with wings with warptime. Kills liths like paper.

What? A Demon Prince can't do anything to the monolith, Living Metal prohibits the 2D6 Armor Penetration from being a Monstrous Creature.

juraigamer wrote:Also, so do meltabombs.

You do know how Living Metal works, right?

Honestly, as Chaos, S10 is the way to go, from either Vindicators or S10 DCCW from Defilers or Dreads (better, IMO), since the Monolith can only move 6" a turn, letting you hit on a 4+ at worst.

Brainfart about the demon prince, however melta bombs do in fact work, oddly.

juraigamer wrote:

Gavo wrote:

juraigamer wrote:As for chaos, the easiest method is a demon prince with wings with warptime. Kills liths like paper.

What? A Demon Prince can't do anything to the monolith, Living Metal prohibits the 2D6 Armor Penetration from being a Monstrous Creature.

juraigamer wrote:Also, so do meltabombs.

You do know how Living Metal works, right?

Honestly, as Chaos, S10 is the way to go, from either Vindicators or S10 DCCW from Defilers or Dreads (better, IMO), since the Monolith can only move 6" a turn, letting you hit on a 4+ at worst.

Brainfart about the demon prince, however melta bombs do in fact work, oddly.

Nnnooo they don't, unfortunately. (Or fortunately, depending on whether it's your monolith being attacked.)

Im on the ignore it and Phase Out team.

The Acolyte wrote:

Marthike wrote:Easiest way and a sure way to kill a monolith is get a GK librarian with warp rift. Flamer template which does auto pen on it lol.

and if that didn't work assault with termis which should have a good chance to bring it down.

Otherwise lascannon, rail gun, OR ignore it. You can pretty much kill all his warriors with something with a large blast template.

Out of curiosity how can you hurt the monolith with S4 termies with force weapons when monolith is AV14? Unless you have a D10 its pretty impossible.

I would suggest try to cause phase out as both chaos and tau are long range enough to ignore the monolith as it only has a 6" move and 24" range so you can effectively stay away from it all game untill you kill enough necrons to phase them out.

Anyone playing GK termies is going to have at least one or two Daemon Hammers since they are free, and hammerhand's +1 str is before multipying, so they're str 10.

A squad of XV88 Broadside Suits is probably 40k's best long-range-tank-busting squad. Go with those.

As for chaos, I would try to outmanuver it and go for phase out, but if I had to shoot it I would use Obliteraters.

Either field soemthign to pop it or cencentrate on the NEcrons. Dont forget, if he uses the lith to re-roll those WBB saves he cant fire the particle whip. Its a case of one or the other.

So kill lots of troops and force him to keep using that portal to get rid of his only high S weapon.

juraigamer wrote:
Brainfart about the demon prince, however melta bombs do in fact work, oddly.

Don't go there. Please. We've had so many debates about this already.


And as the others said..I'm tossing in my support with the 'make it phase out' camp, but if you REALLY want to kill it blasting it with anything S10 is your best option.

Using "God's Name" as the OP requested:

Gonads Em

Stop trying to get in a dick measuring contest with your necron buddy. You don't have to kill his monolyth. Let him harp on it all you want. Kill his troops. Force phase out.

Damn Egos

Fine. They want to brag about their stuff, then BLOW IT UP! Strength 10 is the answer. As much as you can get. Dreadnoughts, Vindicators, Rail Guns. Pop that sucker.

Gas Demon

Rush your Demon prince up. Lash the necrons away from the monolyths and other Necron units to deny WBB. Blast the bee-jeesus out of them.

The Acolyte wrote:

Marthike wrote:Easiest way and a sure way to kill a monolith is get a GK librarian with warp rift. Flamer template which does auto pen on it lol.

and if that didn't work assault with termis which should have a good chance to bring it down.

Otherwise lascannon, rail gun, OR ignore it. You can pretty much kill all his warriors with something with a large blast template.

Out of curiosity how can you hurt the monolith with S4 termies with force weapons when monolith is AV14? Unless you have a D10 its pretty impossible.

I would suggest try to cause phase out as both chaos and tau are long range enough to ignore the monolith as it only has a 6" move and 24" range so you can effectively stay away from it all game untill you kill enough necrons to phase them out.

hammer hand + deamon hammer = S10

make deamon hammer mastercrafted 5 point.

Take terminators so he can't really hurt you.

In the necron codex when it says only one D6 can be rolled for pen does that affect psychic powers that add a extra D6?

Pretty easy as a shooty BT. Our elites and HS do some pretty nasty AT.

Squad of Terms with 2x CML and tankhunter. 4 s9 shots
Venerable Dread with a ML/TLLC and tankhunter. 1s9 and 1 s10 twinlinked shot

Potms Vindicator

Marthike wrote:

The Acolyte wrote:

Marthike wrote:Easiest way and a sure way to kill a monolith is get a GK librarian with warp rift. Flamer template which does auto pen on it lol.

and if that didn't work assault with termis which should have a good chance to bring it down.

Otherwise lascannon, rail gun, OR ignore it. You can pretty much kill all his warriors with something with a large blast template.

Out of curiosity how can you hurt the monolith with S4 termies with force weapons when monolith is AV14? Unless you have a D10 its pretty impossible.

I would suggest try to cause phase out as both chaos and tau are long range enough to ignore the monolith as it only has a 6" move and 24" range so you can effectively stay away from it all game untill you kill enough necrons to phase them out.

hammer hand + deamon hammer = S10

make deamon hammer mastercrafted 5 point.

Take terminators so he can't really hurt you.

In the necron codex when it says only one D6 can be rolled for pen does that affect psychic powers that add a extra D6?

It affects everything. The rule says 'attacks may only roll one D6 for armour penetration rolls even if they would normally get more'. Nothing can ever have more than S+D6 armour pen against a monolith.

As for the Daemonhammers. If you have 2 in a squad (which seems to be what most players are running). Monolith will pretty much always be moving 6" and its a skimmer so you will hit on a 4+. So half your attacks hit. Furthermore even at S10 daemonhammers you need a 4 to glance and 5 or 6 to penetrate. So only 1/4 of your attacks from Daemonhammers will actually do anything and a 1/3 of them will be glancing hits anyway. So those 2 guys will hit with only cause 1 damaging hit and 1/3 of the time it will be a glancing hit. And even penetrating hit only have 1/3 chance of causing a wrecked/explodes result.

So using law of averages 1/2 x 1/2 x 2/3 x 1/3 = 1/18 Therefore only 1 in every 18 hits from a daemonhammer will destroy the monolith. As a GK termie has 2 attacks you need 9 terminators with daemonhammers to effectively kill a monolith (I doubt many players have that many guys with hammers) - On a final note, you also have to pass the psychic test for hammer hand which is 5/6. bringing the final chance of destroying the monolith to 5/108 so about 22 attacks or 11 terminators.

Movac wrote:Pretty easy as a shooty BT. Our elites and HS do some pretty nasty AT.

Squad of Terms with 2x CML and tankhunter. 4 s9 shots
Venerable Dread with a ML/TLLC and tankhunter. 1s9 and 1 s10 twinlinked shot

Potms Vindicator

IIRC Tank Hunters doesn't work on the 'Lith.

Tank hunter does not work on a lith; you get nothing but S (of the weapon!) + D6, not S+D6+1 (for tank hunter) or S+D6 + D6 (might of titans, etc)

get it into close combat with a daemon prince 2D6 + 6 (i think thats the strength of a prince) should penetrate the lith easy

Ridealgh wrote:get it into close combat with a daemon prince 2D6 + 6 (i think thats the strength of a prince) should penetrate the lith easy

You only get S+D6 for penetration on the Monolith due to its Living Metal rule. No exceptions.

Markerlight it, then railgun it with Broadsides. for Tau, For CSM, I would run a daemon prince up to it, and pound on it. Or light it up with las

Tau are practically one of the only factions that can reliably take down the Monoliths. Rail the things down and cripple the Necron player.

Chaos (and most other races) should go for his troops and try for phase out. The only time that should be exceptionally difficult is when there is a triple Monolith wall protecting the troops. Defilers should work well for both jobs (killing troops and busting Monoliths in CC).

The "ignore it" advice is pretty terrible, IMO.

Most Necron players are smart enough to circumvent this by good 'Lith positioning that prevents you from LOSing their troops, as well as holding the right amount of troops in reserve to prevent you from phasing them out - all the while, your army is whittled away by the C'tan, and up to 3 Liths. Sometimes, ignoring them isn't an option.

My suggestion would be to stay out of their 30" range, and slam them as much as you can with S10 weapons - anything outside of that isn't really going to cut it. You know the probability of a Lascannon wrecking or destroying a 'Lith? It's around 5%. Bring the big guns.

I found that charging it with a S10 warboss/Ghaz also wrecks it. Depending on your army you might be able to melee it (outside of MCs). I also second all the Vindicator suggestions - they work great.

Magnalon wrote:The "ignore it" advice is pretty terrible, IMO.

Most Necron players are smart enough to circumvent this by good 'Lith positioning that prevents you from LOSing their troops, as well as holding the right amount of troops in reserve to prevent you from phasing them out - all the while, your army is whittled away by the C'tan, and up to 3 Liths. Sometimes, ignoring them isn't an option.

This is so very, very true.

As a Chaos player I'd just bring a whole lot of Obliterators. 6-9 Lascannons per turn will do something to a Monolith. Even if you don't kill it right away, immobilizing it is a pretty good thing too. Berserkers with a Powerfist can do quite a job on an immobilized 'lith.

Razorback, twin-linked las cannons. Ba-da-bing, Ba-da-Boom! (roughly 1/3 of the time) 3 razor's seals-the-deal & you still have mobility for your chaos marines.

Gitsplitta wrote:Razorback, twin-linked las cannons. Ba-da-bing, Ba-da-Boom! (roughly 1/3 of the time) 3 razor's seals-the-deal & you still have mobility for your chaos marines.

Along cmes AlmightyWalrus and ruins the fun by telling you that Chaos razorbacks don't exist...

LOL! oops...

First rule of dakka.... "NEVER take tactical advice from Gits... he's a painter, not a fighter."

I did pop a monolith with a lucky shot from a razorback though... so I wasn't just making thing up. Guess I'd second the oblit recommendation then.

Well, switch Chaos for Loyalist and you're right back in business.

Magnalon wrote:The "ignore it" advice is pretty terrible, IMO.

Most Necron players are smart enough to circumvent this by good 'Lith positioning that prevents you from LOSing their troops, as well as holding the right amount of troops in reserve to prevent you from phasing them out - all the while, your army is whittled away by the C'tan, and up to 3 Liths. Sometimes, ignoring them isn't an option.

My suggestion would be to stay out of their 30" range, and slam them as much as you can with S10 weapons - anything outside of that isn't really going to cut it. You know the probability of a Lascannon wrecking or destroying a 'Lith? It's around 5%. Bring the big guns.

As a GUard player, I'd say I'm a bit biased. I'm used to having high strength low AP weaponry that doesn't care about LOS so ignoring the Monoliths (as long as they don't get too close) is usually a fair option.

However, it's true that alot of armies don't have the same barrage ability, or the same ability to spam cheap lascannons, so I'd say that the best way is S10 it somehow. As Tau Railguns. Lots and lots of Railguns. As CSM, either DCCW or Vindicator shells will do the job.

*insert jaws music here* Lithy's comin for ya mang

unless you have a bunch of Str10 shots(tau) ignore it and go for phase out.


Tau(and GKs in CC) are one of the few armies that can actually kill monoliths outright.


most other armies have to focus on Phase Out.




if using your Chaos Marines, attack in CC and phase him out.


if you are Tau, then you can shoot it, and then go for phase out.

Grey Templar wrote:unless you have a bunch of Str10 shots(tau) ignore it and go for phase out.


Tau(and GKs in CC) are one of the few armies that can actually kill monoliths outright.


most other armies have to focus on Phase Out.




if using your Chaos Marines, attack in CC and phase him out.


if you are Tau, then you can shoot it, and then go for phase out.

And Guards! Go Go Manticores!

i would say, don't just ignore them, but shoot smart. Use lascannons or railguns, weapons with unmodified str 9 or better only if there's no better targets

Try to kill of the necrons first, if you start by shooting at the liths, your just wasting fire that can finish off a necron unit. The liths and orbs can only bring them back if one is left standing. Concentrate fire on what's available, if nothings' good, THEN shoot at a monolith. As was said above, you don't actually have to destroy the thing, immobilizing it can drastically reduce it's effectiveness.

If you must, you can use melta bombs and powerfists on them, but you still need a 6 to glance. The extra assault move can help you get past the thing to something better on the other side, and if you DO glance, all the better. if i remember though, a berzerker can't pen it because i think you only get the unmodified strength from the PF, not the extra from FC

pyre wrote:i would say, don't just ignore them, but shoot smart. Use lascannons or railguns, weapons with unmodified str 9 or better only if there's no better targets

Try to kill of the necrons first, if you start by shooting at the liths, your just wasting fire that can finish off a necron unit. The liths and orbs can only bring them back if one is left standing. Concentrate fire on what's available, if nothings' good, THEN shoot at a monolith. As was said above, you don't actually have to destroy the thing, immobilizing it can drastically reduce it's effectiveness.

If you must, you can use melta bombs and powerfists on them, but you still need a 6 to glance. The extra assault move can help you get past the thing to something better on the other side, and if you DO glance, all the better. if i remember though, a berzerker can't pen it because i think you only get the unmodified strength from the PF, not the extra from FC

FC still works as it increases the strength, unlike things like tank hunter which adds to the pen roll.

FC works because it does not alter the strength of the weapon (the powerfist) just the strength of the user. The unmodified strength of a powerfist is 2S, with "S" based on the model.

If you dont have troops that can make backfield, behind a mono wall, then how are you winning single objective games? Pretty much all lists I've seen have *something* that can come on at the back / deepstrike / outflank, and they eat warriors very fast.

For Tau - Use Broadsides.

My Necron playing friend actually stopped using his Monolith because I killed it or immobilised it pretty much every game within a turn or two.

His armies after this were A LOT harder for me to take down due to numbers!!!

SO - in hindsight, don't kill it all the time as he'll stop using it and bring harder lists! :(

Well, one of the Necron's few competitive lists left actually uses 3 monoliths.


3 monoliths against Tau is simply suicide, but that is one army that also isn't the most competitive out there.

Grey Templar wrote:Well, one of the Necron's few competitive lists left actually uses 3 monoliths.


3 monoliths against Tau is simply suicide, but that is one army that also isn't the most competitive out there.

Indeed, just yesterday I faced off against a triple Monolith list, and even with 8 lascannons and 2 Demolishers, I only managed to destroy one Monolith. I eeked out a last minute win due to phase out, but yeah....

It should also be noted that I am now at a compromise between the ignore and kill it at all costs factions. I'd say that you should shoot at it until you inflict some kind of crippling damage on it. For me that damage was immobilizing both of his Monoliths in a positions where they weren't a threat.

After his Monoliths were redndered in effective, it was just a matter of manuvering for a final strike at his warriors to force a phase out.

The Acolyte wrote:

Marthike wrote:

The Acolyte wrote:

Marthike wrote:Easiest way and a sure way to kill a monolith is get a GK librarian with warp rift. Flamer template which does auto pen on it lol.

and if that didn't work assault with termis which should have a good chance to bring it down.

Otherwise lascannon, rail gun, OR ignore it. You can pretty much kill all his warriors with something with a large blast template.

Out of curiosity how can you hurt the monolith with S4 termies with force weapons when monolith is AV14? Unless you have a D10 its pretty impossible.

I would suggest try to cause phase out as both chaos and tau are long range enough to ignore the monolith as it only has a 6" move and 24" range so you can effectively stay away from it all game untill you kill enough necrons to phase them out.

hammer hand + deamon hammer = S10

make deamon hammer mastercrafted 5 point.

Take terminators so he can't really hurt you.

In the necron codex when it says only one D6 can be rolled for pen does that affect psychic powers that add a extra D6?

It affects everything. The rule says 'attacks may only roll one D6 for armour penetration rolls even if they would normally get more'. Nothing can ever have more than S+D6 armour pen against a monolith.

As for the Daemonhammers. If you have 2 in a squad (which seems to be what most players are running). Monolith will pretty much always be moving 6" and its a skimmer so you will hit on a 4+. So half your attacks hit. Furthermore even at S10 daemonhammers you need a 4 to glance and 5 or 6 to penetrate. So only 1/4 of your attacks from Daemonhammers will actually do anything and a 1/3 of them will be glancing hits anyway. So those 2 guys will hit with only cause 1 damaging hit and 1/3 of the time it will be a glancing hit. And even penetrating hit only have 1/3 chance of causing a wrecked/explodes result.

So using law of averages 1/2 x 1/2 x 2/3 x 1/3 = 1/18 Therefore only 1 in every 18 hits from a daemonhammer will destroy the monolith. As a GK termie has 2 attacks you need 9 terminators with daemonhammers to effectively kill a monolith (I doubt many players have that many guys with hammers) - On a final note, you also have to pass the psychic test for hammer hand which is 5/6. bringing the final chance of destroying the monolith to 5/108 so about 22 attacks or 11 terminators.

Anything hit by an deamon hammer auto shakes so it can't shoot, and it can only move 6 inches so I can just run up an try again. If I can stop the monolith from shooting then A necron army is pretty much useless because monolith are the only things that do the kills and the destroyers.

2 squad keep the monolith useless and the dreads shoot the destroyers.

Marthike wrote:

The Acolyte wrote:

Marthike wrote:

The Acolyte wrote:

Marthike wrote:Easiest way and a sure way to kill a monolith is get a GK librarian with warp rift. Flamer template which does auto pen on it lol.

and if that didn't work assault with termis which should have a good chance to bring it down.

Otherwise lascannon, rail gun, OR ignore it. You can pretty much kill all his warriors with something with a large blast template.

Out of curiosity how can you hurt the monolith with S4 termies with force weapons when monolith is AV14? Unless you have a D10 its pretty impossible.

I would suggest try to cause phase out as both chaos and tau are long range enough to ignore the monolith as it only has a 6" move and 24" range so you can effectively stay away from it all game untill you kill enough necrons to phase them out.

hammer hand + deamon hammer = S10

make deamon hammer mastercrafted 5 point.

Take terminators so he can't really hurt you.

In the necron codex when it says only one D6 can be rolled for pen does that affect psychic powers that add a extra D6?

It affects everything. The rule says 'attacks may only roll one D6 for armour penetration rolls even if they would normally get more'. Nothing can ever have more than S+D6 armour pen against a monolith.

As for the Daemonhammers. If you have 2 in a squad (which seems to be what most players are running). Monolith will pretty much always be moving 6" and its a skimmer so you will hit on a 4+. So half your attacks hit. Furthermore even at S10 daemonhammers you need a 4 to glance and 5 or 6 to penetrate. So only 1/4 of your attacks from Daemonhammers will actually do anything and a 1/3 of them will be glancing hits anyway. So those 2 guys will hit with only cause 1 damaging hit and 1/3 of the time it will be a glancing hit. And even penetrating hit only have 1/3 chance of causing a wrecked/explodes result.

So using law of averages 1/2 x 1/2 x 2/3 x 1/3 = 1/18 Therefore only 1 in every 18 hits from a daemonhammer will destroy the monolith. As a GK termie has 2 attacks you need 9 terminators with daemonhammers to effectively kill a monolith (I doubt many players have that many guys with hammers) - On a final note, you also have to pass the psychic test for hammer hand which is 5/6. bringing the final chance of destroying the monolith to 5/108 so about 22 attacks or 11 terminators.

Anything hit by an deamon hammer auto shakes so it can't shoot, and it can only move 6 inches so I can just run up an try again. If I can stop the monolith from shooting then A necron army is pretty much useless because monolith are the only things that do the kills and the destroyers.

2 squad keep the monolith useless and the dreads shoot the destroyers.

Until you realize that the gauss flux matrix can fire anyway...

Bit of a damper for you. The Monolith can fire whenever. Even if it's stunned, immobilised, shaken or stirred (i know two are the same thing).

As Tau you should have no problem, unless your are the victim of unlucky dice. Railguns do it every time.

Don't shoot the monolith, shoot the crons and make them phase out.

coolyo294 wrote:You invoke God's name and hope he smites it.

XD

ChrisWWII wrote:

Grey Templar wrote:Well, one of the Necron's few competitive lists left actually uses 3 monoliths.


3 monoliths against Tau is simply suicide, but that is one army that also isn't the most competitive out there.

Indeed, just yesterday I faced off against a triple Monolith list, and even with 8 lascannons and 2 Demolishers, I only managed to destroy one Monolith. I eeked out a last minute win due to phase out, but yeah....

It should also be noted that I am now at a compromise between the ignore and kill it at all costs factions. I'd say that you should shoot at it until you inflict some kind of crippling damage on it. For me that damage was immobilizing both of his Monoliths in a positions where they weren't a threat.

After his Monoliths were redndered in effective, it was just a matter of manuvering for a final strike at his warriors to force a phase out.

thats the idea behind the triple monolith list.


it makes it so you can't ignore them and go for phase out. you actually have to deal with the monoliths.

it doesn't always work, but its about the best Crons can hope for. that and Destroyer lists.

XV88's are a must in any Tau list.

For the price of a hammerhead you can get 2 Broadsides that have twin-linked railguns.

Thats 2 str10 hits instead of 1.

true, but remember that hammerheads have one of the only pie plates Tau have access to.


and it rarely takes more then a couple of Railguns to drop a tank. a penetrating hit has a 50% chance to kill a tank.


the flexability of the Pie Plate is good. it also has BS4 so the trade off of not being TL is mitigated. the difference is that Broadsides are 8.3% more accurate then the BS4 hammerhead.

That's without factoring in markerlights as well.

Markerlights + Rail cannons (that now hit on a 2+) = shockingly short lived monoliths.

Hu, I didn't think I'd get this many replies :O.

I total love that pic. I think i have on my loptop somewere....

Grey Templar wrote:

ChrisWWII wrote:

Grey Templar wrote:Well, one of the Necron's few competitive lists left actually uses 3 monoliths.


3 monoliths against Tau is simply suicide, but that is one army that also isn't the most competitive out there.

Indeed, just yesterday I faced off against a triple Monolith list, and even with 8 lascannons and 2 Demolishers, I only managed to destroy one Monolith. I eeked out a last minute win due to phase out, but yeah....

It should also be noted that I am now at a compromise between the ignore and kill it at all costs factions. I'd say that you should shoot at it until you inflict some kind of crippling damage on it. For me that damage was immobilizing both of his Monoliths in a positions where they weren't a threat.

After his Monoliths were redndered in effective, it was just a matter of manuvering for a final strike at his warriors to force a phase out.

thats the idea behind the triple monolith list.


it makes it so you can't ignore them and go for phase out. you actually have to deal with the monoliths.

it doesn't always work, but its about the best Crons can hope for. that and Destroyer lists.

Don't rule out the Wraith-based lists. I took a Wraith-list against my friend who has been playing Crons for years and he told me "you can't pull any list I haven't done already," I told him what list I was running, he tailored against it (DA All-terminator list with updated FAQ) and I STILL got more kills than him. He got a lucky phase out, but my destroyers and Lords were eating him alive. This was the same day he triple-killed all of 'my' monoliths-so don't assume he was just having a bad day. The wraithwing, when done correctly, is absolutely murder. Nobody expects a CC based Necron army-woe is he who ignores CC crons...

Railguns, or Ignore it and go for phaseout.

Strength 10 hits are the best way to smash a monolith.

Tau: Railguns on broadsides, probably the best way to knock down a monolith effectively.

Chaos: Vindicators, strength 10 and Ordnance means you roll 2d6 and pick the highest versus the heavy armour of the Monolith. Guaranteed to hurt.

Also Obliterators can work, but probably not as well as the vindicators.

I love how everyone focuses so much on killing the Liths

The lith is a flying building with mediocre armament and so slow it's unreal.

It is very tough, but then it's supposed to be

It really isn't that hard to maneuver around for the more mobile armies, or obliterate with heavy weapons fire for the compensation-cannon disposed (looking at uyou here, guard..). It will take an ungodly number of hits sometimes to take down, but frankly those shots would be better served dropping into the troops

If the necron player walls up all the time shake him up with outflankers, drop pods, fast skimmers coasting over the wall to drop troops/shoot stuff up etc

I rarely bother with a monolith at less than 2000 pts. It's a huge pointsink that rarely makes it's points back or does anything useful beforfe being immobilized in my backfield.

creeping-deth87 wrote:Honestly, no race excels at killing heavy armour as much as the Tau do. Rail guns are your answer for any heavy tank/vehicle.

As for CSMs, as someone already mentioned, use las cannons.

I have heard that before but where do you get lascannons from, is there a set or do you have to find it on like eBay or something?

I think we've pretty much gotten all the answers we'll get- there's an aweful lot of repeats here.

So, in short, Str. 10 good for killing Monoliths, due to AV14 and Living Metal. Still difficult.


Better option, ignore 'liths, kill Warriors and other Necrons for Phase Out.

It's easy to bring down monolith. Just use powerfull tanks or anything that can bring a world of hurt on armor ( you can even try melta bomb is cc ).

Brother Coa wrote:( you can even try melta bomb is cc ).

No, you can't.

Ignore it and go for phase out or use something really good at taking out heavy armor.

Gavo wrote:

Brother Coa wrote:( you can even try melta bomb is cc ).

No, you can't.

Why not?

Melta bombs do work, look at the wording of melta bombs; living metal does not expressly prohibit them from working. RAW defeats RAI, especially against 12 year old codices.

The trick is getting your melta bombs onto the monolith. Best suggestion would be delivering an assault with a land raider, but then you're spending 240 points (plus melta bombs) to deal with a model that costs 235 points. If it works out in your favor, awesome, you've gained a huge advantage... if not, then you're really screwed.

Obviously, tau broadsides are a fantastic option; but so are commando squads (6 man firewarrior or stealth squads with emp grenades).

I am definitely in the 'kill the monolith' camp, It's a huge tactical and psychological blow to your opponent, and even glancing blows will make some necron players start to turtle. With tau, specifically, your opponent will know that your broadsides/hammerheads pose a threat to his monolith, and the trick is, use it to your advantage.

The units that shoot at the monolith with the greatest frequency will most likely become the units that the necron player fixates on. Don't be afraid to use your broadsides or hammerheads as bait to draw his troops into a pincer where your stealth/crisis squads can chew them up with high strength/low ap fire (PR, FB). Meanwhile, your secondary monolith killing crew (commando squad, second broadside squad, or backup hammerhead) can move, unmolested into a kill position.

The same applies to Chaos. Obliterators have some chance of damaging a Monolith, and range 48 deep striking lascannons are definitely going to draw attention. Now, with chaos, you have to have a bit more finesse when you're sneaking up on a monolith with melta bombs. The best way to do it is with misdirection. Use the oblits to draw the attention of a squad close to the monolith, and use your melta-toting troops to assault that squad. Chaos > Necrons in close combat, and the strategy works if you can initiate the assault on your turn and win it on his. Khorne Berserkers are excellent for this... That way your consolodate move gets you a little closer, hopefully close enough that you can move and assault on your next turn, to deliver those meltabombs.

Of course, these are both tactics that rely on some knowledge of your opponent, and aren't universal... but you asked how to destroy monoliths, so here's two more rounds in your chamber.

Look, we've had the debate on melta bombs and whether or not they work on living metal again, and again, and AGAIN. The same arguments have been thrown out again, and again, and again, but just to make life interesting...

junk wrote:Melta bombs do work, look at the wording of melta bombs; living metal does not expressly prohibit them from working. RAW defeats RAI, especially against 12 year old codices.

RAW beats RAI, but specific beats general. In general, the meltabomb gets 8+2d6 armor penetration. However, the Living Metal rule says that you only ever roll S+1d6 to penetrate it, with the condition that you still get your 'roll 2d6, pick the highest' you get for ordnance.

Living Metal is more specific than melta bombs, and thus overules them.

But wait! I hear them cry, grenades don't list a strength, so that means that the penetration of a meltabomb is a number that you get from adding 8 to the result of 2d6!

Now, this is a valid argument. The BRB does not describe the number you add to the armor penetration roll as the grenades' 'strength'. Of course, it's intended to be its strength, but RAW and all that....

Now, there are two possible camps to follow.

Option A: THe meltabomb has an implied strength of 8, and against the Monolith rolls 8 + 1d6 for armor penetration.

Opetion B: The meltabomb has no strength, and since the Living Metal special rule makes all penetration strength plus 1d6, the meltabomb must add its strenght (which is 0 due to not existing), to 1d6, giving it an armor penetration of 0+1d6.

I haven't played 40K recently, but (as a Necron player) I seem to remember Eldar and/or Dark Eldar lances treating AVs above 12 as 12, which makes them very efficient in cracking Monoliths open. If I am wrong I am sure someone will correct me

J

use broadsides with something like this
1 team leader w/ TA, TL, and SMS
2 regulars w/ TA & SMS

for best results, get ^ x3

proceed to nuke a big vehicle every turn

Jiraiya wrote:I haven't played 40K recently, but (as a Necron player) I seem to remember Eldar and/or Dark Eldar lances treating AVs above 12 as 12, which makes them very efficient in cracking Monoliths open. If I am wrong I am sure someone will correct me

J

You are indeed correct, but the Monolith unfortunately negates the lance special rule.

ChrisWWII wrote:Now, there are two possible camps to follow.

Option A: THe meltabomb has an implied strength of 8, and against the Monolith rolls 8 + 1d6 for armor penetration.

Opetion B: The meltabomb has no strength, and since the Living Metal special rule makes all penetration strength plus 1d6, the meltabomb must add its strenght (which is 0 due to not existing), to 1d6, giving it an armor penetration of 0+1d6.

BRB Page 63 - Melta Bombs 8+2D6

They're also not AP1

So although they can glance the 'lith with their maximum roll of 14, I wouldn't bother.

Grim.Badger wrote:

ChrisWWII wrote:Now, there are two possible camps to follow.

Option A: THe meltabomb has an implied strength of 8, and against the Monolith rolls 8 + 1d6 for armor penetration.

Opetion B: The meltabomb has no strength, and since the Living Metal special rule makes all penetration strength plus 1d6, the meltabomb must add its strenght (which is 0 due to not existing), to 1d6, giving it an armor penetration of 0+1d6.

BRB Page 63 - Melta Bombs 8+2D6

They're also not AP1

So although they can glance the 'lith with their maximum roll of 14, I wouldn't bother.

Looks like someone missed the point. Living Metal won't let you roll anything else than S+D6 for armour pen. Either 8 is the strength for à meltabomb, meaning it's 8+D6, or it doesn't have a strength, meaning it's 0+D6. Either way you're not getting more than one D6.

....which the poster sort of acknowledged, by stating it has a maximum roll of 14.

The post initially seemed to be laid out in a way to contradict Chris, but didnt actially do so.

Mr Stampy my ork deffdred eats monoliths with his 4 dccws although for some reason the monoliths have started terminating him with extreme predjudice of late, otherwise i ignore it and wipe out all the nasty little warriors with boyz.

AlmightyWalrus wrote:

Grim.Badger wrote:

ChrisWWII wrote:Now, there are two possible camps to follow.

Option A: THe meltabomb has an implied strength of 8, and against the Monolith rolls 8 + 1d6 for armor penetration.

Opetion B: The meltabomb has no strength, and since the Living Metal special rule makes all penetration strength plus 1d6, the meltabomb must add its strenght (which is 0 due to not existing), to 1d6, giving it an armor penetration of 0+1d6.

BRB Page 63 - Melta Bombs 8+2D6

They're also not AP1

So although they can glance the 'lith with their maximum roll of 14, I wouldn't bother.

Looks like someone missed the point. Living Metal won't let you roll anything else than S+D6 for armour pen. Either 8 is the strength for à meltabomb, meaning it's 8+D6, or it doesn't have a strength, meaning it's 0+D6. Either way you're not getting more than one D6.

Yeah, sorry I was just saying that Meltabombs do have a strength associated with them in the rulebook - therefore would be 8+D6 against a 'Lith

I've only fielded a 'Lith a couple of times as I've not long had Necrons and nearly every time it has been popped really quickly by a lucky lascannon shot :( Mind you, I have the same problem with Land Raiders!

By hitting it very hard with something heavy and/or explosive.

Grim.Badger wrote:
Yeah, sorry I was just saying that Meltabombs do have a strength associated with them in the rulebook - therefore would be 8+D6 against a 'Lith

Technically they don't. Technically, going 100% RAW grenades have no 'strength' they just have a penetration value. None of the numbers is described as 'strength'.

It's patentedly obvious that the number you add to the 2d6 roll is meant to be the meltabombs strength, but it's not true RAW.

In short, you need something strength 9 or 10, this is why my Eldar list with its distinct lack of Fire Prisms hates them very much.

So... buy a fire prism and adapt, or try other options.

Melta is god in the current meta, but the Necrons were napping during the meeting and didn't get the memo.

You could also try taking swooping hawks to feth it up, as they can take emp grenades (glance/pen regardless with no pen roll) or wraithguard (wraithcannons -ditto).

Not sure what a D cannon would do to it. I know it has odd effects, but i've never actually had one used on my liths.

With how cheap they are, d-cannons could od the trick without putting a dent on your list building.

Problem isn't their damage, but their range. They only have 24" range. But they pen on 5+.

Yeah, might buy a D-cannon in case of Monoliths. Don't really want to buy a prism as I've got enough tanks to buy for my guard as it is.

Plus the new model is utterly sweet, especially compared to the original metal one... (and if you don't glue the gun barrel in it can swap which support weapon it is..)

The best tactic is to force a phase out, BoW did a video on this same thing went for shooting at vendettas, kill troops because troops win games, especially in objective games. 50 shots taken at a lith are 50 shots that could be getting sponged by warriors or other units that are considered "Necrons" for the purposes of the Phase Out rule.

purplefood wrote:Either ignore it completly and go for the Phase Out against the rest of his army or railgun it to death.
It is pretty difficult any other way.

You have to read dashofpepper's guide he said something about since youre shooting the necrons you can get blasted by posibly 3 monoliths which will hurt stuff pretty badly

Only if you are standing right next to them

Monoliths hard very short range guns. Pummel them from range

if you were IG or eldar/dark eldar its pretty easy, but alas your not.......Go for Phase out.

So looking forward to when Phase Out is gone, and people will have to actually win fair and square

Without phase out, there is no such thing as "fair and square" for Necrons as they are in their current codex. They're flat out overpowered without it.

But with the other adjustments that are coming with the fifth edition codex, it shouldn't be so bad.

Statline inferior to Marines and still just as sweepable without Phase Out as with it.

Vastly overcosted/ineffective units that can be done down all to easily.

WBB that can easily be denied in all sorts of ways, and is only on a 4+. FNP is in many ways superior, and many other armies got handed it out like candy.

No power weapons, squad heavy weapons, transports, long range, survivable fire support or artillery units. No additional close combat weapons or grenades (barring the Ctan and I think Wraiths, and their version is less useful if you use the wording in the codex (which you have to).

No ATSKNF, No morale rerollers, no fearless FNP Furious charging troops No infinite attack av 13 walkers with twin-wielded lightning claws...

One tank, and one expensive troop unit.

Close combat units that suck in close combat.

No plasma,melta or lance weapons to aid in tankbusting.

The only thing that could concievable be called overpowered is the Monolith, which is short ranged, slow as hades and vulnerable to being broken open (as it is too slow to run away) in CC, especially by those armies with dreads/ Thunderhammers (and similar stength doublers) or haywire grenades.

It is also breakable from range by decent guns.

Melta doesn't work on it, granted, so take something other than the ever-present meltaspam ...

Which not all armies have.

Hell, it's not just immune to melta, either. It's immune to chainfists, eviscerators, etc as well. Sisters, quite literally, have nothing that can possibly penetrate it.

What, in specific?

I guarantee every other army has more than one tank, save nids.

Most other armies have a plasma or melta effect in there somewhere (can't think of one that doesn't)

Every other army has some form of troop transport, including nids.

Every other army has more than one troop choice

odds are that every other army has at least part of the above list covered.

They are far from overpowered.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Melissia wrote:Which not all armies have.

Hell, it's not just immune to melta, either. It's immune to chainfists, eviscerators, etc as well. Sisters, quite literally, have nothing that can possibly penetrate it.

Lascannon. You have access to Landraiders.

Orbital Strike possibly also. It may only be the DH that had Lance Strike, not sure on that..

Penitent Engines have DCCW i think?

Take some allies, perhaps. That would give you access to heavy weapons too, i think.

You can also glance it immobile with exorcists and mop up the rest of the necrons while it sits there fuming..

You can win without it being a total boardwipe.



*edit for update*

WH do have Lance Strike. I've always thought it silly that you can't directly target a Monolith with that though, as most scenery pieces are smaller..

Exorcists are AP 1- You can wreck it on a glance.

Ascalam wrote:Statline inferior to Marines and still just as sweepable without Phase Out as with it.

Vastly overcosted/ineffective units that can be done down all to easily.

WBB that can easily be denied in all sorts of ways, and is only on a 4+. FNP is in many ways superior, and many other armies got handed it out like candy.

No power weapons, squad heavy weapons, transports, long range, survivable fire support or artillery units. No additional close combat weapons or grenades (barring the Ctan and I think Wraiths, and their version is less useful if you use the wording in the codex (which you have to).

No ATSKNF, No morale rerollers, no fearless FNP Furious charging troops No infinite attack av 13 walkers with twin-wielded lightning claws...

One tank, and one expensive troop unit.

Close combat units that suck in close combat.

No plasma,melta or lance weapons to aid in tankbusting.

The only thing that could concievable be called overpowered is the Monolith, which is short ranged, slow as hades and vulnerable to being broken open (as it is too slow to run away) in CC, especially by those armies with dreads/ Thunderhammers (and similar stength doublers) or haywire grenades.

It is also breakable from range by decent guns.

Melta doesn't work on it, granted, so take something other than the ever-present meltaspam ...

They may not have power weapons, but I think Warscythes are a great one upper (now if their initiative was higher...)

Every one of their weapons can glance any tank in the game. I'd say that's a half decent tankbuster. But in general I agree with you.

Tank buster, no. You can't bust a tank on a glance any more unless it's open topped

Tank annoy-the-feth-out-of-er yes You can gradually whittle them down, with good dice luck.

*edit for clarification- unless your gun is AP 1- noticed this when looking up the Exorcist *

BT also have a whopping 1 troops choice.

Didn't know that Never met a BT player and i don't have that codex

I thought they had some kind of acolyte/layperson unit or are Tac squads elites?

Ascalam wrote:Didn't know that Never met a BT player and i don't have that codex

I thought they had some kind of acolyte/layperson unit or are Tac squads elites?

Initiates, or scouts, are taken as a part of crusader squads, the BT equivalent of tac squads. The crusader squads are flexible enough that it's not too big of a problem though.

Interesting.

I may have to pick up the BT codex

They have a certain flair, from the pics i've seen..


Automatically Appended Next Post:
At least you have two options in that unit choice

Ascalam wrote:At least you have two options in that unit choice

Actually, you can't take more initiates than you have neophytes in the squad, so it's always going to be marines as troops. With the different weapon options they're decent at both shooting and assault though.

I think the best way to kill them is to sacrifice a goat to the dice gods.

I field 3 monoliths against my friend mike for the first time against his sw
He only has 3 lascannons in his whole army; nothing else that can shoot them down
First turn, he fires 1 lascannon at each monolith
At the end of the turn, I have 3 smoking craters where monoliths used to be

Mathhammer can kiss my sack.

that's luck,

I do prefere to force the guy to phase out rather than waisting a valuable asset to do something impossible.

Improbable, not impossible

Your friend needs to up his lascannon count, if the dice gods start playing fair

timetowaste85 wrote:Step one: Be Irish
Step two: Get green dice
Step three: Shoot a single lascannon at said Monolith
Step four: Watch it explode
Step five: Repeat process twice more

Kid you not...this actually happened. I was livid

You are having a laugh!

I'm irish.
I play Salamanders ( green spaze marines)
I use green dice.
I still can't hit anything
I use vulkan.
I get just below average...

Ascalam wrote:[snip]

Sisters of Battle cannot take Land Raiders. Nor can they take Orbital Strikes. Only Inquisitors can. Inquisitors are not Sisters of Battle.

Penitent Engines are expensive walkers which are AV11 open topped. They die very fast, and they have rage, meaning that all the Necron has to do is put a few expendible troops in the way of the Penitent Engine and it won't attack the Monolith. Against an intelligent Necron player, it is not an option either. Against an unintelligent Necron player, it is unnecessary.

As for the Exorcist... yes, it's AP1. But you know what? Its shots are better spent on the Necron Warriors, forcing them to Phase Out, because chances are that even if the Exorcist spends an entire game shooting at that Monolith, it won't kill it.

I'll check my codex.

I was under the impression that you could take Landraiders as heavy support.

Sisters of battle can, however, take an inquisitor as part of their force in their codex. They can be included as an adjunct to a pure Sisters force. If you limit yourself purely to SIsters units within the larger codex then it's not the codex's lack of Monolith Penetrating equipment, but your own choice.

Penitent engines are expensive, yes, and somewhat fragile, but they do give lie to the comment that you have nothing to Pen a monolith with. They aren't great, but they can pen a Monolith in CC with a decent chance per round of killing it.

It also isn't hard to accompany them up the field, shoot/assault and sweep the troops in front of the Lith and then watch it pile on in. I used to play WH vs necrons. It worked pretty well for me.

I used Exorcists a great deal back when, as well. Use more than one, perhaps. They have a fair chance of at least immobilizing it, and a possibility of killing it. Even if you don't kill it you can reduce it's firepower, immobilize it and otherwise render it unimportant.

Using exorcists on warriors is damn near pointless, as any Necron player worth their salt will have an Orb within 6'', allowing WBB against those high strength ap1 shots. They are far better used messing up a lith or taking out destroyers etc that are outside orb range. They are also quite effective vs the Ctan.

Ascalam wrote:Sisters of battle can, however, take an inquisitor as part of their force in their codex.

IN which case it is not a Sister of Battle force anymore.



No, penitent engines don't count. They're so hilariously easy to counter that the only time they could ever actually get into combat with a monolith is if my opponent was either an idiot or just wanted to see what would happen if they did.

This might surprise you, but Sisters are less capable in close combat than Necrons are, so relying upon them to sweep up Necrons in close combat when you already spend so damn many points on the overly expensive, overly fragile Penitent Engines is nonsense.

I've played sisters, as mentioned above, against necrons.

It IS a sisters of battle force that was bright enough to bring in an inquisitor and some fire support when facing a force that has no mutants or psykers (their speciality), and is known for bringing flying buildings to a fight.

The Penitent engines aren't great. Mentioned that too. You however flatly denied that anything you had could kill a monolith. I provided an example of something that could. They might 'not count' to you, but they are still there in the codex, and are still able to break open any vehicle they can lay their claws on. It should be noted that they will also be completely immune to most other necron CC attacks, unless the Necron player blew a bunch of points on fields for his warriors, and that it can't be shot at while it's wiping the cover unit and the Lith edges oh so slowly away..

Not saying it's a great solution to killing a lith, but it is capable of it. It also denies the Deepstrike Monolith tactic that puts the Lith in your deployment zone, as it WILL be the closest Necron target and will not be able to fire or move the turn it arrives.

Sisters can be highly effective against necrons in CC. You have access to all sorts of goodies, including Mastercrafted powerweapons, eviscerators and similar good gubbins. Necrons can only WBB from those if a lord is on hand (within 6'') which puts him badly at risk if the necron unit you're fighting loses. You can also maul the unit with melta and flamer fire and then assault etc. Using Faith points wisely can really swing a battle.

Your S may be lower, but your armour is just as good as a Necron, and more importantly you strike first with anything but a powerfist equivilent. Many Sisters units have additional CC weapons, and Seraphim can just opt to sod off after the round of combat is done without needing a roll or nearby Lith to do it .

Necrons have no option for shooting you up then assaulting you with their regular warriors, having rapid fire weapons and no special weapons, and have one attack. They lack additional CC weapons also.

Put 10 Sisters including 2 special weapons (lets assume a flamer and meltagun as that's what comes in the box) with a superior with a powersword against 10 Necron warriors, at a distance of 6''.

Regardless of who's turn it is i'd bet the Sisters would win.