About 7 years ago I was working for a Games Workshop store and my manager at the time basically dared me to make a Dark Eldar army since the models were so hideous and I had spent a fair amount of time making fun of them. He even said I could have the models for free if I painted them up. So, naturally, not being one to back out of a dare I started to work. You can check them out here (for some reason I can't get the "gif" files to work as images here lol):

http://legiominimus.blogspot.com/2008/06/minimans-grand-tournament-2005-army.html

The weird thing though is I actually had a lot of fun playing the army and apart from being the worst models in history I actually liked the way the army looked. Fast forward to November of last year and I see that DE are getting 100% redone with an awesome codex so I am totally all over that. I have done a fair amount of work trying to revamp and update the colour scheme to best fit the current models and overall I am fairly happy with it.

These look pretty cool - nicely done

Very nice, the haemy is particularly awesome.

Awesome work, what I like best is the pallet and common theme you have kept.

o Oni o wrote:Very nice, the haemy is particularly awesome.

Thanks! I actually painted him for a painting competition over at Spikeybits.com. I did a bit of converting to him to try and update him to the current style (his old "sword" was so thick it looked like he was holding a ham hock as a weapon). There is a painting contest in my area in about 4 weeks and I am going to do up the new Urien for that one, really looking forward to it

wardance76 wrote:Awesome work, what I like best is the pallet and common theme you have kept.

The main focus of this army was to keep a common theme from the previous army while updating it to the current codex and evolving it. I actually went through about 4 different variations of this particular scheme with slightly different painting styles before I eventually landed on this one. I am really happy with my new way of painting the black as it ties in with the turquoise of the rest of the armor (basically, high-lighting it with ice blue and codex grey to give it a cooler look). I have been having some issues with my camera as of late which is why the pics of Lilith (who is probably the best painted model in the army if you see her in real life...the camera completely washed out all the detail). I am going to be borrowing my friends camera soon, so I will probably re-post all the pics for things that didnt turn out well

Nice colors. Your basing work is just amazing. I really like to see players put great detail into the bases -- it is an aspect of the miniature that typically goes unappreciated, but even the most modest paint job looks fantastic with a great base.

All miniatures looks awesome good job mate!

well painted finally someone who puts some coherncy in his dark eldar army you used the sam helmets for al your flying-biker thing guys (don't know what they are )

i love it

Nicely painted. I can't wait for my Lelith model. She's arriving tomorrow with a lot more reinforcements.

Wow that gold really pops! Would you mind sharing your technique there? Looks like there might be gloss but some specifics would really help out.

asimo77 wrote:Wow that gold really pops! Would you mind sharing your technique there? Looks like there might be gloss but some specifics would really help out.

This is how I did all the gold for this army:

1) Undercoat of Tin Bitz
2) Painted Shining Gold over all the areas
3) Washed with Delvin Mud
4) Went back over everything with Shining Gold, picking out the highlights this time (much cleaner then the first pass)
5) High Lighted with Burnished Gold
6) High Lighted with a 50/50 mix of Burnished Gold and Mithril Silver, just doing the extreme edges
7) Final light glaze of Griphon Sepia (sp?) to help tie everything together

Seems like a lot of work (which, when looking at the list now I guess it is lol) but since I only use it for small accent colours I don't really notice the extra time. I did try to do this type of gold for a Sanguinary guard army ( you can see the Sanguinor here: http://legiominimus.blogspot.com/2010/06/sanguinor.html ) and it just took for freaking ever for so much of it lol.

Very nice. I'm not a big fan of the G-W coloured-edging house style, but you've made it work with good colour choices.

What are you using for your bases?

Foo wrote:Very nice. I'm not a big fan of the G-W coloured-edging house style, but you've made it work with good colour choices.

What are you using for your bases?

The bases are made up of lots of plastic industrial modelling supplies, some GW parts (like wheels, extra rhino doors, etc..). All the gravel is a very coarse resin pumice which gives me more control over where it goes, which helps for this style of basing. The bases are WAY easier to do then it looks, trust me. The biggest thing with this style of base for me is to have no idea what I am going to do before hand and just throw down as much random stuff as possible.

After they are built I primed the whole model black. The metal is done by stippling scorched brown, vermin brown with the final highlight of blazing orange and some small "ticks" of chainmail all over to simulate chips in the rust. The rocks/sand is codex grey dry brushed over black with a final highlight of bleached bone. The rims of the bases are graveyard earth. The final step (which I have only done for the warriors) is a 50/50 mix of the regular GW Green Grass and their Yellow Grass.

Looks good. Could you tell us what you used for the dark color on the armor? It's not black, right?

ph34r wrote:Looks good. Could you tell us what you used for the dark color on the armor? It's not black, right?

The dark colour is a mix of Black and Hawk Turquoise (almost 50/50 mix) with straight Hawk Turquoise as the first highlight then a mix of Hawk Turquoise and Bleached Bone as the extreme highlight.

WOW, Awesome paint job. Thats all I can say.

ghoulio wrote:

Foo wrote:Very nice. I'm not a big fan of the G-W coloured-edging house style, but you've made it work with good colour choices.

What are you using for your bases?

The bases are made up of lots of plastic industrial modelling supplies, some GW parts (like wheels, extra rhino doors, etc..). All the gravel is a very coarse resin pumice which gives me more control over where it goes, which helps for this style of basing. The bases are WAY easier to do then it looks, trust me. The biggest thing with this style of base for me is to have no idea what I am going to do before hand and just throw down as much random stuff as possible.

After they are built I primed the whole model black. The metal is done by stippling scorched brown, vermin brown with the final highlight of blazing orange and some small "ticks" of chainmail all over to simulate chips in the rust. The rocks/sand is codex grey dry brushed over black with a final highlight of bleached bone. The rims of the bases are graveyard earth. The final step (which I have only done for the warriors) is a 50/50 mix of the regular GW Green Grass and their Yellow Grass.

So the plastic stuff is just spare bits of model you have lying around or do you buy stuff?

(Can you buy stuff? I have no idea aside from the Citadel basing kit.)

ghoulio wrote:

asimo77 wrote:Wow that gold really pops! Would you mind sharing your technique there? Looks like there might be gloss but some specifics would really help out.

This is how I did all the gold for this army:

1) Undercoat of Tin Bitz
2) Painted Shining Gold over all the areas
3) Washed with Delvin Mud
4) Went back over everything with Shining Gold, picking out the highlights this time (much cleaner then the first pass)
5) High Lighted with Burnished Gold
6) High Lighted with a 50/50 mix of Burnished Gold and Mithril Silver, just doing the extreme edges
7) Final light glaze of Griphon Sepia (sp?) to help tie everything together

Seems like a lot of work (which, when looking at the list now I guess it is lol) but since I only use it for small accent colours I don't really notice the extra time. I did try to do this type of gold for a Sanguinary guard army ( you can see the Sanguinor here: http://legiominimus.blogspot.com/2010/06/sanguinor.html ) and it just took for freaking ever for so much of it lol.

Thanks for the response. A really nice gold is just what my models need.

@ Foo: It's mostly just bits of extra models I have lying around. I also have some sheets of plasticard, some plastic tubes and some plastic factory pieces I bought from a local model store ("I" beams, things like that). The stuff from the model store is all super cheap. When I go about basing I just cut all of those into small pieces, mix and match and glue them to the base. After that I put on the pumice, wait for it to dry then it finished. You can literally do this with anything though, not just industrial bases. I just really liked the colour contrast with the bases and this army to help make them stand out.

Very nice! Always cool to see a fully painted army

great work bud !! love the pics congrats on a job well done !

Just a quick update. It almost killed me but I finally finished the 3 Ravagers for the army. Each one took at least 8 hours to complete. All I can say is I am happy they are done lol.

They look fantastic. You can tell you spent a ton of time on each one. Plus they fit the scheme of your army too. Overall, you have one of the best painted, most cohesive dark eldar armies I've seen. Actually, one of the better armies period.

Just a quick update. Just finished 2 of my Venom Transports. I didn't bother putting on the wyche crew as these will have trueborn in them about 99% of the time (maybe some warriors). I think I will eventually do up the Wyche crew for my raiders and one or two of the warriors for the venoms. I should also be adding pics of my finished Haemonculi in the next couple of days as well (Urien and the new Finecast generic one).

Your making me seriously consider getting a dark eldar army. It looks awesome!

Nice!!

Great stuff, man.

I see you built up the venoms with both railing options; I can't say I like the left one. Just a matter of tastes. Overall, you're doing justice to these fantastic models. What else do you have in the pipeline?

ghoulio wrote:

ph34r wrote:Looks good. Could you tell us what you used for the dark color on the armor? It's not black, right?

The dark colour is a mix of Black and Hawk Turquoise (almost 50/50 mix) with straight Hawk Turquoise as the first highlight then a mix of Hawk Turquoise and Bleached Bone as the extreme highlight.

Wow I just got my DE and my color scheme is almost the exact same. I am using strait black, highlighting with mordian blue, second highlight of hawk turquoise, then electric blue for the extreme highlight. Your models look awesome. I cant believe the schemes are so close. Great job on everything.

AesSedai wrote:Great stuff, man.

I see you built up the venoms with both railing options; I can't say I like the left one. Just a matter of tastes. Overall, you're doing justice to these fantastic models. What else do you have in the pipeline?

Thanks! I know what you mean about both railing options. For me the reason I built up the option with the skulls is to help add visual interest to the army both with just the slight variation to how the vehicles look and because the skulls help break up the colour scheme.

As for stuff in the pipe line I just finished painting the Finecast Haemonculus as well as the metal Urien (best looking things in the army, no contest). Gonna take some pics tomorrow so they should be up soon. Tonight I am going to try and finish off my first 5 man unit of Scourges (haywire blasters). After that it will be my second unit of 10 Wyches. I am also going to do a tutorial on how I did the bases for this army as well as some generic tips for doing scenic bases (basically showing off how it can 100% make an army).

Farseer Jenkins wrote:Wow I just got my DE and my color scheme is almost the exact same. I am using strait black, highlighting with mordian blue, second highlight of hawk turquoise, then electric blue for the extreme highlight. Your models look awesome. I cant believe the schemes are so close. Great job on everything.

The colour scheme does look different in real life. My camera isn't great for doing these types of pics so things get muted quite a bit (both in how crisp the models are and the colours). The army in person is no where near as dark as it looks in these photos and is much greener too. So the vehicles definitely have a good hint of the hawk turquoise for the main colour instead of black. Yours sounds like a cool colour scheme though. This army looks just awesome in those dark schemes. Gives them a really sinister vibe

Very nice looking army. I start to like DE more and more. I told my friend to wait for the new dex to come out before he started a DE army, but he didn't wait, and started his DE army like 8 months before the dex.

Excellent army! I too was dared t play with the older models and I ended up really enjoying how the army played.

I like the skin tone on lelith, it's really cold and twisted!

Great looking stuff. Good eye for detail.

Just finished off my new Urien and Finecast Haemonculi. Gotta say...super unimpressed with the Finecast as a product. The one I got was by far the best one out of the 4 they had at the store and he was still messed up. Some of his fingers just broke off when trying to clean them up (this is with me BARELY touching them). He also took at LEAST an hour to clean up properly and my metal Urien is a significantly better sculpt just from a material point of view (metal looked crisper, way less clean up and no where near as brittel). Hopefully they will iron out the kinks soon and maybe we will see a difference to models that were made with Finecast in mind instead of molds made for pewter that were switched over to be used for resin. So here they are

The basing you've done here is amazing. It really ties the army together, provides a great contrast, and looks good while doing it! I really need to pick up one of those old metal Urien models for my army. To me, he makes a much better haemonculus than the arms open "let's hug it out" new resin sculpt.

The army looks fantastic. Great job!

Just a quick update. Finished my first unit of scourges over the last couple of days. Awesome figs, joy to paint





I am almost done the first half of my Beastmaster unit and should have pics of them shortly

The bases for all your models look really good and uniform throughout. I also like the color scheme you chose for your dark eldar. Nice job.

Those scourges are amazing... you've made the bat wings look fantastic!

I love those bases!

Beautiful army.

They look outstanding

One thing I hate about dark eldar players is they paint their armies up so nice and it makes me wanna play DE. Bravo sir these look amazing

I really liked the old models!
The DE have always appealed to me, and the new models just make that appeal stronger...... Damn you and you awesome paint jobs!!

I have been plugging along, working really hard to finish my 1850pts army so I don't have to play Tyranids again for the next tournament in my area lol. The next unit up on the "to do" list is my small unit of Beastmasters (10 Khymera with 2 Beastmasters). I really wanted to use the new Beastmaster models until I found out this little 144pts unit was going to cost a whopping $203.50 Canadian BEFORE TAX!! So naturally there is no way a sane man or woman would buy those models so I just went through my bits box to find some decent stand ins. So after a bit of re-painting and trading I came up with this for my squad. Let me know what you think

Hey what did you use for the skin tone on your DE?

Luthon1234 wrote:Hey what did you use for the skin tone on your DE?

The skin tone for the standard Dark Eldar is:

1) Shadow Grey as the base
2) a 50/50 Mix of Shadow Grey and Elf Flesh as the first high light
3) a 30/70 mix of Shadow Grey and Elf Flesh with some Skull White added in for the final high light

If it is a Character model then I add in more levels of high lighting, but that is the recipe for the basic troopers

You're army has soo much character, seriously job well done on the entire project! Everything looks fantastic keep it up!

Your beast squad looks great! I had planned on using the chaos hounds as khymer as well. As you had said, way to expensive to do it any other way. They look right at home next to those beast masters.

Looks great. The highlights were executed perfectly. Nice work.

Just a quick update in the form of a Razorwing!

The razorwing is nice, but a little plain without decoration.

I love the rest of your thread, by the way! Those beastmasters look great!

Foxtale wrote:The razorwing is nice, but a little plain without decoration.

Yup, I agree with you 100%. I feel this way about all my vehicles and jetbikes, it's just taking me forever to decide on how I want to do the design work. Basically, I am just trying to get everything "tournament ready" as quickly as possible so I dont have to play my Tyranids anymore lol. I basically want to do an "evil" version of what I did with my Ulthwe Army (below is a pic of my Jet Bikes so you can see what I mean).

Foxtale wrote:I love the rest of your thread, by the way! Those beastmasters look great!

Thanks!

Oh yeah. That kind of design comes out quite nice on the Razorwing. Those Ulthwe designs bring to mind them zipping between each other's paths, and the jet-trails they leave behind.

I did something similar on my Razorwing, but with a more serpentine, smoother, curvier design.

Just finished my Venom Squadron with their Warriors. Only 10 Wyches left and I am done my main 1850pts army. After that its all fun stuff like Hellions, Talos and the rest of the beastmasters plus my 2nd Razorwing

Nice work. It's the first time I've a seen a DE army and wanted some!

Nice skintone. Dheneb stone?

A++ JOB! Great work!

nice

Just finished the last of my 1850pts army, which is my Hydra Gauntlet Wyche Squad! Only thing left now that the majority of the army is finished is to just do the design work on the sails of the Ravagers/Raiders and the design work on the Reavers, Raiders, Ravagers, Venoms and Razorwing! Cant wait!





Once I have time to actually finish off the design work I will post pics of the updated tanks and it will end with some high quality pics of the entire army together

Really nice work. Beautiful paint scheme and well executed. I love your bold brush stroke style. I could never pull that off.

The bases look really nice, too. I would love to face off against this army.

Love it, really good job man, seriously.

Brilliant execution of your color scheme.

Beautiful!

I love your colour scheme so much! I'm thinking bout getting into DE and this makes me want to do it so much more! Especially love the helmet wearing Beastmaster model, looks like hes about to shank someone with the knife.

Beautiful work. Perhaps we could see a group shot?

Amaya wrote:Beautiful work. Perhaps we could see a group shot?

The group shot is actually coming very soon. I am hoping to get some shots in early next week as I am just trying to finish off the last of the design work on all the vehicles/jet bikes. I am also borrowing a friends camera which actually has a macro lense so I should be able to get some good, quality photos of the army.

@ Everyone else: Thank you very much for all the compliments!

Dude, you're army is amazing. It's really the perfect example for how bases can really make an army 100x better! You're painting is brilliant, but I almost want to just stare at the bases instead because they're so unique and amazing! You gotta make a tutorial, unless its a secret But you're painting is beautiful as well! Love the capes, cloaks, and robes. You're shading is really well done.

Awesome job man, true dedication and good planning on the bases. Makes all the difference!

I finally got around to taking some pics of the full army together. So, here it goes (**warning 8 million pics inbound!**)























This is army comes in at exactly 1850pts and so far has been insanely fun to play. I have already starting working on the 2000pts upgrade which is finishing the base for a 3rd Raider for the foot Warriors and finishing off the beast pack by adding 2 more beast masters with 2 razorflocks and a clawed fiend. Cant wait!

Awesome!

Fantastic! The beast pack looks great also.

Fustratingly complete compared to mine!

Very well done too. I was thinking of going for blue but Im not sure, was good to get a look at yours.

Nice consistency throughout the different units.

The hard work on all those highlights really pays off on the tabletop. Great job.

I think what I like most about your army is the coherent feel. You took a bunch of varied units and vehicles and made them feel like part of one force. That's really hard to do with some armies.

Everything looks sharp too. Very appropriate.


Cheers

It looks really great all together like this!

Must ask aswell; Do you use those venom squads just as 5 warrior teams with a blaster? Id normally try to put trueborn in them, but my tactics arent working out for me these days especially against guard! lol

Just a curiosity.

Awwww...

So jealous, I have a closetfull of unpainted Dark Eldar...

But at least I painted a squad of warriors to a good standard; slow and steady right?

Newt-Of-Death wrote:Must ask aswell; Do you use those venom squads just as 5 warrior teams with a blaster? Id normally try to put trueborn in them, but my tactics arent working out for me these days especially against guard! lol

Just a curiosity.

I have never actually used Blaster Trueborn in an list. I have played over 30 games now and only lost 1. To be fair though the majority of the lists I have faced off against haven't been the greatest (same with the players) and I am really starting to look out for more challenging opponents to help push my game further. This is the list I have been using lately and have been loving it (the list that makes up the army above):

HQ

Succubus - Agonizer, Haywire Grenades

Troops

Kabalite Warriors(10) - Dark Lance, Blaster
3 x Kabalite Warriors (5) - Blaster, Venom w/ Additional Splinter Cannon
Wyches (10) - 2 x Shardnets/Impalers, Hekatrix w/ Agonizer, Haywire Grenades, Raider w/ Night Shields
Wyches (9) - Hydra Gauntlet, Hekatrix w/ Agonizer, Raider w/ Night Shields

Fast Attack

Reaver Jet Bikes (6) - 2 x Heat Lances
Scourges (5) - 2 x Haywire Blasters
Beastmasters (2) - 10 x Khmyera

Heavy Support

Razorwing Jet Fighter - 2 x Dark Lances, 4 x Monoscythe Missiles, Flicker Fields
2 x Ravager - 3 x Dark Lances, Flicker Fields

1850pts

I just feel this list covers all the bases nicely and designed to be a full all comers list (so elements to handle horde and armor). Best part is it is tonnes of fun to play.

On a side note the Trueborn unit I am currently working on though has 2 splinter cannons and 3 shard carbines in a venom (so 160pts for 33 shots a turn..yes please!).

I managed to get a bunch more painting in over the last couple weeks. I finished off my 2 Razorwing Flocks, my Clawed fiend and this Talos. Once I finish the last two beastmasters I will post a pick of the new beasties as well as the completed unit

I like the way you've painted it's skin and the small glass canisters.

The gold parts on the Raider is really really eye catch.
Too bad the rest of the army dont have them :/

Just awesome, really awesome. It's not until you take some army pics that you can truly appreciate the excellent work done on your Dark Eldar. Well done mate

LunaHound wrote:The gold parts on the Raider is really really eye catch.
Too bad the rest of the army dont have them :/

Sorry but I don't understand this comment as literally every last model in the army has gold on it (everything ranging from shoulder pads to every splinter weapon). I am happy that you like the Ravagers though

ghoulio wrote:

LunaHound wrote:The gold parts on the Raider is really really eye catch.
Too bad the rest of the army dont have them :/

Sorry but I don't understand this comment as literally every last model in the army has gold on it (everything ranging from shoulder pads to every splinter weapon). I am happy that you like the Ravagers though

Oopsies i see the other pics now, it wasn't loading earlier

still looks great!
Im still intimidated to assemble mine xD

Yep! Your Talos is amazing!

Trueborn with Splinter cannons in a Venom with an extra splinter cannon is always devastating!!! Unless you take damage on the first turn before you even start :(


Automatically Appended Next Post:
And your list looks pretty good there. Definitely have to get myself a razorwing.

Very nice! If I may say the one holding the skull reminds me of " To be or not to be that is the question." In his case to kill or not to kill this is the question hmmm.... kill and put his head on a pike.

Really love your army. Great job.

Just a quick update as I finally finished my beast pack. Really pleased with how the squad turned out and how the finished product looks on the table. Now just need to find a tournament in my area where I can use these guys...

I'd say he lost the bet. Very good paint job.

Great Painting! God I love the new DE models!

ghoulio wrote:About 7 years ago I was working for a Games Workshop store and my manager at the time basically dared me to make a Dark Eldar army since the models were so hideous and I had spent a fair amount of time making fun of them. He even said I could have the models for free if I painted them up.

You are lying right there. It is against GW store policy for any free models to be given out (unless for intros), not even to staff. If that was the case, then that manager was likely to lose his job.

EldarN00b wrote:

ghoulio wrote:About 7 years ago I was working for a Games Workshop store and my manager at the time basically dared me to make a Dark Eldar army since the models were so hideous and I had spent a fair amount of time making fun of them. He even said I could have the models for free if I painted them up.

You are lying right there. It is against GW store policy for any free models to be given out (unless for intros), not even to staff. If that was the case, then that manager was likely to lose his job.

You seriously felt the need to comment on a light hearted story of why I started Dark Eldar? To respond to your comment we had a couple of extra boxes of the 3rd edition starter sets lying around that was never going to be used so he gave me the spares and no, he didn't come close to losing his job. In fact he became regional manager last time I heard. I received tonnes of free stuff from GW when I worked there (in Canada) so I have no idea what you are talking about. Why you felt the need to respond in a modeling and painting post about GW company policy is beyond me especially when you are calling me out as a lair in a situation where you don't know the circumstances.

EldarN00b wrote:

ghoulio wrote:About 7 years ago I was working for a Games Workshop store and my manager at the time basically dared me to make a Dark Eldar army since the models were so hideous and I had spent a fair amount of time making fun of them. He even said I could have the models for free if I painted them up.

You are lying right there. It is against GW store policy for any free models to be given out (unless for intros), not even to staff. If that was the case, then that manager was likely to lose his job.

I assumed that the Manager bought them from his own store and gave them to him.

Really nice looking work - I absolutely love your Lelith!

ghoulio wrote:

EldarN00b wrote:

ghoulio wrote:About 7 years ago I was working for a Games Workshop store and my manager at the time basically dared me to make a Dark Eldar army since the models were so hideous and I had spent a fair amount of time making fun of them. He even said I could have the models for free if I painted them up.

You are lying right there. It is against GW store policy for any free models to be given out (unless for intros), not even to staff. If that was the case, then that manager was likely to lose his job.

You seriously felt the need to comment on a light hearted story of why I started Dark Eldar? To respond to your comment we had a couple of extra boxes of the 3rd edition starter sets lying around that was never going to be used so he gave me the spares and no, he didn't come close to losing his job. In fact he became regional manager last time I heard. I received tonnes of free stuff from GW when I worked there (in Canada) so I have no idea what you are talking about. Why you felt the need to respond in a modeling and painting post about GW company policy is beyond me especially when you are calling me out as a lair in a situation where you don't know the circumstances.

Who Owen or Darren?

I believe you though. Because i know GW needs painted display armies. And "free army" he meant basically is:
You paint it out of your own time, you cant take it home, ti needs to stay in the store display shelf. But you can play with it in shop when you are off work.

Basically he wants you to paint it for free lol that guy is so cheap...

LunaHound wrote:Who Owen or Darren?

I believe you though. Because i know GW needs painted display armies. And "free army" he meant basically is:
You paint it out of your own time, you cant take it home, ti needs to stay in the store display shelf. But you can play with it in shop when you are off work.

Basically he wants you to paint it for free lol that guy is so cheap...

Wow haha, always surprising to see people from your area commenting on stuff . As far as your question to who it was it was actually neither of them since I worked for GW in between years at school back in Ontario (so 2004-2005ish).

It was more or less along those lines though. I had just finished painting up the demo figs for the store, made the mistake of commenting on how they "weren't that bad to paint" so he said I could have the rest of the stuff since I liked them so much (goading me into playing them basically). My army was mostly warriors with 1 raider and a ravager with a mighty TALOS! Good times lol. I actually took that army to the 2005 Grand Tourney at the Oakville battle bunker too. I had two massacres and two massacres against lol (just alternated through the day). Was an awesome time.