The graphics look nice, especially the scenery. Also seems they've tuned the accuracy/feedback of the bolter. Just a shame the Nobs seem ridiculously immune to ranged attacks.
His Master's Voice wrote:Call it health, or whatever if it makes you feel better.
No he had health (that was the red bar). And he had rechargeable shields.
Now 40K is Halo. Yay.
And look at that - Chaos Marines that leap around with no weight to them... it's like Ultramarines all over again. And apparently Chaos Marines burst into a cloud of ash when they die. Yeah. And apparently the Meltagun is a member of the Shotgun family.
Are we sure Relic made this? I mean, how could the guys who made Dawn of War simply forget how 40K works?
Most games these days will have regenerating health, it greatly reduces game balancing/testing costs because you can play any portion of the game at any time since you can assume the person goes in at a set strength.
H.B.M.C. wrote:"... just wait for my shields to regenerate"
Aw feth me...
Yeah, but oh well .. maybe a poor choice of words and I suppose it's a common terminology in a lot of other fps style games. Armour resilience doesn't roll off the tongue as well
Oh no, regenerating health! It would make more sense for there to be health packs everywhere obviously! Its an iron halo, you even have rechargeable shields in DoW2; force commander iron halo. Also, you regain health and armor by performing sync kills, not running away and hiding; although it still comes back eventually if you run and hide as well.
I dunno, I think a melta-shotgun seems pretty cool.
"Rechargeable" Health and shields or whatever is hardly a new idea. I like it a lot more than random powerups. Maybe we should have random meat off orcs that you can eat to regain health.
In all seriousness, it looks nice and I'm looking forward to it. I'm hoping for some nice multiplayer (co op) for it.
His Master's Voice wrote:Call it health, or whatever if it makes you feel better.
No he had health (that was the red bar). And he had rechargeable shields.
Now 40K is Halo. Yay.
And look at that - Chaos Marines that leap around with no weight to them... it's like Ultramarines all over again. And apparently Chaos Marines burst into a cloud of ash when they die. Yeah. And apparently the Meltagun is a member of the Shotgun family.
Are we sure Relic made this? I mean, how could the guys who made Dawn of War simply forget how 40K works?
Is regenerating shields that big a deal to you? Would it be more realistic for them to pick up health packs?
Then you draw comparisons to halo as if that one feature makes the two similar?
The Space marine captain certainly seemed to have weight to him, you could see the ground shake as he took steps
Maybe your just looking for holes to pick? it seems very good based on this stuff
H.B.M.C. wrote:
No he had health (that was the red bar). And he had rechargeable shields.
Now 40K is Halo. Yay.
That is where you're wrong. This game DISCOURAGES using cover, because you're a badass Space Marine who can crash through walls and punch things to death. The mantra at the studio was literally "Cover is for pussies" and it's very anti-Halo. Your health regenerates, yes, but it does so MUCH quicker if you're performing execution moves on bad guys. Your health regenerates faster if you're kicking more ass. That's pretty unlike Halo, your kneejerk notwithstanding.
Also the OP has the same video linked twice, you might want to update that so it is both of the gameplay videos.
Your character(Titus) looks very weighty, CSM might have looked a bit floaty, but I don't really think its a big deal, I imagine the movement profile for everyone is exactly the same in multiplayer at least; so everyone will have the same heft.
Stormbolter looks insane, that is what I am going to picture while my GKs charge into battle from now on.
And, as a big halo fan, this doesn't really seem anything at all like it. Other than the regenerating health that every other shooter game has now pretty much; which makes far more sense than health packs littering the floor.
H.B.M.C. wrote:
No he had health (that was the red bar). And he had rechargeable shields.
Now 40K is Halo. Yay.
That is where you're wrong. This game DISCOURAGES using cover, because you're a badass Space Marine who can crash through walls and punch things to death. The mantra at the studio was literally "Cover is for pussies" and it's very anti-Halo. Your health regenerates, yes, but it does so MUCH quicker if you're performing execution moves on bad guys. Your health regenerates faster if you're kicking more ass. That's pretty unlike Halo, your kneejerk notwithstanding.
I'm sure he meant Iron Halo. "Now 40k uses Iron Halo. Yay." See, he's even a little enthusiastic.
daedalus-templarius wrote:Oh no, regenerating health! It would make more sense for there to be health packs everywhere obviously! Its an iron halo, you even have rechargeable shields in DoW2; force commander iron halo. Also, you regain health and armor by performing sync kills, not running away and hiding; although it still comes back eventually if you run and hide as well.
I dunno, I think a melta-shotgun seems pretty cool.
!!
Agreed on the melta and shields. I didn't see anything in there that didn't excite me. Even the wierd ballistic lobbed plasma looked cool. Plus, they have the stalker pattern bolter! That's one of my favs in Deathwatch also.
I'm guessing that their fury slow time only works in single player campaign and that it won't have coop as "bullet time" doesn't work well with two players.
Regenerating your Iron Halo is for wimps! Real Spess Mareens go for the kill to get their health back
Looks like a fun beat em up game, I wonder how challenging the enemies are going to be though, most of the time besides the ranged Nob it looked like a breeze. Note yes I do know they said an hour into the game so maybe the chaos forces/bigger orks will be more of a threat
It looks like the Ork Boys take about 3 bolt rounds to go down, and given that clip, that isn't many. They are the classic fodder enemy, and certainly a lot more interesting looking/fighting-against than halo's grunts.
Nobs definitely take a lot of firepower, and appear to hit REALLY hard; at least the melee ones.
As for the chaos marines, I'm not really sure yet. They all look like they have plasma cannons, that are probably easy to dodge since they have a not-super-fast flight time. They take a lot more hits, but the ranged based ones don't look too tough. I'd be more worried about ones charging you with a stormbolter and chain-axe.
Bloodletters look super nasty; from what the devs have said they will slice you up in a hurry.
Ah sorry I just saw the part two, getting hit by plasma does not look fun! Also, dang I didnt know marines had that much dexterity. Those gunners were rolling all over the place. I guess as long as you can end combat quickly or stun opponents you'll be fine but if not you'll take a beating.
Ooooh, charge up fury and you get a... foot stomp! Foot stomp that causes enemies in the surrounding area to recoil, and a shoulder charge that mashes Orks into several bloody pieces? Sounds... Uhhhh... Reasonable.
I know 40K isn't exactly realistic, but damn.
The gore and graphics are impressive, particularly the scenery. The Space Marine and IG character models are nice too.
The Boltgun looks massively improved and good fun to use; something I'm really pleased about. The grenades look too powerful and the throw is too cartoony for my liking however.
So much for Orks being about as strong as a Space Marine mind...
To me it looks far too linear for my liking ultimately. If you like a game simple and just repeated hacking and slashing, then I imagine this is right up your street, personally however I feel it looks far too linear and one-dimensional for me to enjoy it fully. I dislike the constant slow-mo/cinematic kills or the requirement to mash a button, looks like melee uses a single button which could get old.
Since seeing the gameplay I don't think I was ever going to get this game, but I'll be interested to see how it turns out. I'm unimpressed personally.
Orks aren't as strong as a Space Marine because that wouldn't be as fun. It's more fun to cut down hordes of enemies punctuated by tougher, more equal enemies (Nobs, Chaos Marines) than it is to fight guys who just refuse to die. It doesn't feel badass to struggle with each and every enemy.
I don't doubt or deny that, but I feel they should've been tougher none-the-less, to me atm they seem more like clumsy fools than credible threats (without trying to antagonise, but that's the best description I could think of) and it doesn't merge with the background either IMHO.
The background doesn't merge with itself more often than not. I would like more than just one Ork character model, and for you to be able to choose whether you and your allies wear helmets or not, but those are my only gripes.
To me it looks far too linear for my liking ultimately. If you like a game simple and just repeated hacking and slashing, then I imagine this is right up your street, personally however I feel it looks far too linear and one-dimensional for me to enjoy it fully. I dislike the constant slow-mo/cinematic kills or the requirement to mash a button, looks like melee uses a single button which could get old.
Since seeing the gameplay I don't think I was ever going to get this game, but I'll be interested to see how it turns out. I'm unimpressed personally.
X is light attack
Y is heavy attack
B is execution
(translate to your personal controls, but mine will be xbox)
There will hopefully be combos of some sort. Its a 3rd person linear campaign shooter, I'm not sure what you were expecting.
The real meat will be the multiplayer implementation.
Hah called it. Said back in march, from a fairly short video, the CC was Light, Heavy, Execution.
Anyway i would admit the Chaos video is the weaker of the two, i dislike the cheap 'mortar' attack the chaos Marines seem to have (I bet ya 5 bucks it homes) and the rolling around the Chaos guys do is just a rip off of elites from halo, as it is a fairly easy way of showing 'equality' with the PC. The blood letters look cool and i hope the presence of renegades means getting to fight some tanks.
To me it looks far too linear for my liking ultimately. If you like a game simple and just repeated hacking and slashing, then I imagine this is right up your street, personally however I feel it looks far too linear and one-dimensional for me to enjoy it fully. I dislike the constant slow-mo/cinematic kills or the requirement to mash a button, looks like melee uses a single button which could get old.
Since seeing the gameplay I don't think I was ever going to get this game, but I'll be interested to see how it turns out. I'm unimpressed personally.
X is light attack
Y is heavy attack
B is execution
(translate to your personal controls, but mine will be xbox)
There will hopefully be combos of some sort. Its a 3rd person linear campaign shooter, I'm not sure what you were expecting.
The real meat will be the multiplayer implementation.
Oh, I stand corrected then, that's definitely more optimistic sounding to me then.
I was first expecting something more similar to GoW, I think a lot of us were. Ultimately however I'm really not a fan of (for lack of a better term) 'simplistic' games such as this. I think the 40K IP has so much potential that's yet to be properly used I guess. As I said though, it's not really my kind of game as it is; it's looking similar to 'Metal Arms: Glitch in the System', but unlike this metal arms didn't take it seriously. Some of its my personal preferences for games, some of its also how good the game looks I guess...
Oh and how come there is no mini with the special edition? A 'captain titus' with a heavy bolter and official rules anyone?
I think GW have yet again missed a trick marketing wise.
To GW: Next time have a voucher for £5-10 off AOBR (or whatever the new edition will be called) you will sell loads....
Just Dave wrote:
I was first expecting something more similar to GoW, I think a lot of us were. Ultimately however I'm really not a fan of (for lack of a better term) 'simplistic' games such as this.
Are you implying that games that lack a snap-to cover system are simple? Having snap-to cover does increase the depth of a game, however in this game the extra depth comes from melee, not snap-to cover. Not everyone really likes snap-to cover either.
But no, its not like Gears, at all. Its like Darksiders, with more shooting.
From one of the head developers of the game, via Somethingawful, as he was asked about the fairly repetitive combos:
So this is going to go a bit deep into the rabbit hole and I probably shouldn't say it but I feel it does need to be said:
There is more than just the three and four hit combo. Thing is, this demo is for E3 so we had to cut out any stuff that wasn't totally ready for primetime. So any bugs with animations, or combo timing or damage levels or anything really that would hamper the player experience was removed from this demo. That's always been kind of the problem with showing demos like this, we would love nothing more than to just show everything that is in the game but initial impressions being what they are would hurt the overall experience if some features had presentation bugs or if the FX didn't look right, or if the audio was all poppy and scratchy. There are some people who would be able to look past that, but there are also an exponentially greater number of people who take demo's like this at face value.
daedalus-templarius wrote:It has co-op, and multiplayer.
Need more info on this, please!
Once they share more, I'll be the first to post it.
All we know now is there will be 8v8 SM vs CSM(no idea on modes), a Cleanse(horde) mode for 4-5 players, and coop of some sort (not assured in campaign).
I love it how I said "He has regenerating shields! This is Halo" and everyone's response was "Would you rather have health packs?".
Health =/= Shields folks.
The way you get more health by getting stuck into combat may be artificial, but it's a good way of pushing the player into combat and is more Marine like. It's having regenerating shields as standard that annoys me. I hope that he had that because of a piece of wargear, and not just due to lazy design decisions on the part of the developers.
And, as an aside, to comment on what Yhatzee said a while back - what did health packs ever do to us? When was the collective decision made to replace health packs (which were unrealistic) with recharging health (which is also unrealistic).
Perkustin wrote:Oh and how come there is no mini with the special edition? A 'captain titus' with a heavy bolter and official rules anyone? I think GW have yet again missed a trick marketing wise.
To GW: Next time have a voucher for £5-10 off AOBR (or whatever the new edition will be called) you will sell loads....
Yep. GW ultra-fails at cross promotion. There should have been minis for the commanders from Dark Crusade. There should have been a set for the Ultramarine's movie. There should be something for this. But, I guess when it comes to GW, if at first they don't suceed... fail and fail some more!
The Warhammer Online Collector's Edition came with a model. They sold out of CEs, but the model went up on eBay and sold in many cases for as much as the damn CE.
It's definitely a case of missed opportunities, but the one example was to show that they did try it--and like most CEs with something exclusive and rare, it ended up being eBayers buying the majority and selling it off in lots.
If it were me, personally...I'd do it as a registration/purchase bonus.
Like: register your copy of Space Marine with us, and receive a free, available nowhere else, model.
I can understand what some people are saying about how close or far it is from "approved" Space Marine fluff....but I think the game looks nice, the Marines don't look as clumbsy as they do in most other attempts to capture them (including the miniatures!)....and as for the other stuff, well, it's just a bit of fun after all.
I mean, come on guys....how often has GW ignored it's own fluff? It's not worth busting a gut over.
Plus anyway H.B.M.C, like me, you won't be buying this anyway....remember we don't support GW financially anymore, so who cares what they do?
Delephont wrote:Plus anyway H.B.M.C, like me, you won't be buying this anyway....remember we don't support GW financially anymore, so who cares what they do?
This isn't a GW product. It's not made by GW. Why would I not buy it (aside from practical reasons - like not having any sort of system capable of running it)?
Kanluwen wrote:It's definitely a case of missed opportunities, but the one example was to show that they did try it--and like most CEs with something exclusive and rare, it ended up being eBayers buying the majority and selling it off in lots.
If it were me, personally...I'd do it as a registration/purchase bonus.
Like: register your copy of Space Marine with us, and receive a free, available nowhere else, model.
Kind of like the old Skullz system.
I'd make it a bit more integrated with usual GW practice - use White Dwarf as a platform to advertise it (previews, a code that unlocks special weapons, and so on - y'know, actually useWD for good instead of stupid), and release the model's in store ("Bring in the game case" promotion, or whatever) for a limited time.
Kanluwen wrote:It's definitely a case of missed opportunities, but the one example was to show that they did try it--and like most CEs with something exclusive and rare, it ended up being eBayers buying the majority and selling it off in lots.
If it were me, personally...I'd do it as a registration/purchase bonus.
Like: register your copy of Space Marine with us, and receive a free, available nowhere else, model.
Kind of like the old Skullz system.
I'd make it a bit more integrated with usual GW practice - use White Dwarf as a platform to advertise it (previews, a code that unlocks special weapons, and so on - y'know, actually useWD for good instead of stupid), and release the model's in store ("Bring in the game case" promotion, or whatever) for a limited time.
They did a half-decent crosspromotion in the Xbox Live Arcade/PSN game 'Kill-Team'(which looks like it'll be a good way to introduce console players who haven't played DOW to 40k) where you get a Power Sword for simply playing the first level of the full game.
At $10/800 MS points--it's about the same for the entire game as most DLC packages on the consoles.
Delephont wrote:Plus anyway H.B.M.C, like me, you won't be buying this anyway....remember we don't support GW financially anymore, so who cares what they do?
This isn't a GW product. It's not made by GW. Why would I not buy it (aside from practical reasons - like not having any sort of system capable of running it)?
Are you serious? You don't think the gaming company paid GW for a license to use their I.P.? So, the more people buy the games, the more desirable the license will be for the gaming company, they will continue to PAYGW to retain the license....hence, buying the game promotes further payments to GW for the use of their I.P.....simples?!?
Delephont wrote:Plus anyway H.B.M.C, like me, you won't be buying this anyway....remember we don't support GW financially anymore, so who cares what they do?
This isn't a GW product. It's not made by GW. Why would I not buy it (aside from practical reasons - like not having any sort of system capable of running it)?
Well, you are indirectly infusing GW with your own blood by buying a game based on a GW licensed IP.
I thought it looked fantastic. Combat looked fluid, the weapons looked awesome, graphics was decent. General thumbs up here :thumbup:
Though I don't see what the fuss is over a regen shield. Most FPS's are stuck with a rather poor, cover system whereby you hide and the blood stops leaking from your eyeballs, and you can go killing again... for about 3 seconds. In this that shield is about as close as "Cover as it gets, and it's gone very quick if you aren't careful. And since Ork boyz love combat that shield was gone for most of the combat sequences, or at least nearly depleted. Also notice that plasma attack from the CSM pretty much nulled out the shield in a few shots. So no I don't see much wrong with the shield.
Kanluwen wrote:It's definitely a case of missed opportunities, but the one example was to show that they did try it--and like most CEs with something exclusive and rare, it ended up being eBayers buying the majority and selling it off in lots.
If it were me, personally...I'd do it as a registration/purchase bonus.
Like: register your copy of Space Marine with us, and receive a free, available nowhere else, model.
Kind of like the old Skullz system.
I'd make it a bit more integrated with usual GW practice - use White Dwarf as a platform to advertise it (previews, a code that unlocks special weapons, and so on - y'know, actually useWD for good instead of stupid), and release the model's in store ("Bring in the game case" promotion, or whatever) for a limited time.
They did a half-decent crosspromotion in the Xbox Live Arcade/PSN game 'Kill-Team'(which looks like it'll be a good way to introduce console players who haven't played DOW to 40k) where you get a Power Sword for simply playing the first level of the full game.
At $10/800 MS points--it's about the same for the entire game as most DLC packages on the consoles.
Correct me if I'm wrong though, but that's not GW's advertising/cross-promotion, it's the developers/publishers of the games themselves and doesn't promote the hobby as directly as select miniatures would. So it's another fumble by GW? [/HBMC]
Kanluwen wrote:It's definitely a case of missed opportunities, but the one example was to show that they did try it--and like most CEs with something exclusive and rare, it ended up being eBayers buying the majority and selling it off in lots.
If it were me, personally...I'd do it as a registration/purchase bonus.
Like: register your copy of Space Marine with us, and receive a free, available nowhere else, model.
Kind of like the old Skullz system.
I'd make it a bit more integrated with usual GW practice - use White Dwarf as a platform to advertise it (previews, a code that unlocks special weapons, and so on - y'know, actually useWD for good instead of stupid), and release the model's in store ("Bring in the game case" promotion, or whatever) for a limited time.
They did a half-decent crosspromotion in the Xbox Live Arcade/PSN game 'Kill-Team'(which looks like it'll be a good way to introduce console players who haven't played DOW to 40k) where you get a Power Sword for simply playing the first level of the full game.
At $10/800 MS points--it's about the same for the entire game as most DLC packages on the consoles.
Correct me if I'm wrong though, but that's not GW's advertising/cross-promotion, it's the developers/publishers of the games themselves and doesn't promote the hobby as directly as select miniatures would. So it's another fumble by GW? [/HBMC]
And the developers/publishers of the games themselves don't go much for the packaging in gimmicky things like models.
I know. It's silly, but it's not really done that much anymore.
Kanluwen wrote: They did a half-decent crosspromotion in the Xbox Live Arcade/PSN game 'Kill-Team'(which looks like it'll be a good way to introduce console players who haven't played DOW to 40k) where you get a Power Sword for simply playing the first level of the full game.
At $10/800 MS points--it's about the same for the entire game as most DLC packages on the consoles.
That's not GW doing the crosspromotion but the developer/publisher of the video games. They don't the credit as all they did was license it off and maybe get some input on the preproduction concept art and plot. That being said, I do think the arcade game (whether or not its just effectively a DOW engine mod like was suggested in its thread) is a good idea.
Kanluwen wrote:It's definitely a case of missed opportunities, but the one example was to show that they did try it--and like most CEs with something exclusive and rare, it ended up being eBayers buying the majority and selling it off in lots.
If it were me, personally...I'd do it as a registration/purchase bonus.
Like: register your copy of Space Marine with us, and receive a free, available nowhere else, model.
Kind of like the old Skullz system.
I'd make it a bit more integrated with usual GW practice - use White Dwarf as a platform to advertise it (previews, a code that unlocks special weapons, and so on - y'know, actually useWD for good instead of stupid), and release the model's in store ("Bring in the game case" promotion, or whatever) for a limited time.
Great idea! If they've went as far as endorsing the game and allowing another media to 'exploit' their precious IP they should bloomin well cross promote their butts off.
I am not sure about the shields either. Stamina would have been better, depleting with skills usage, replenished by victory and/or rest. You can only be killed when you are 'too exhausted' to parry properly.
Wounds could be handled for heavier weapons, with the same caveat and a temporary reduction in abilities until you get to an auto-med station or an apothecary.
Shields could still have their place, you later can earn a conversion shield which has four settings, low power, high power each for melee and ranged. There is no 4+, its automatically relisable against the chosen setting. High power setting will stop a lascannon/kustom blasta (otherwise a shot like that will instadeath) or a powerfist/dread claw. Low power weapon ping off bolter/shoota shells or ordinary melee attacks. The way the shield operates stops types of damage, in a nutshell reminiscent of the way Dune shields work, except with a reverse setting (i.e. fast/slow blade penetrates the shield). This keeps it tactical and allows you to have a redasonable in canon rweaction to being hit by lascannon. The conversion shield stops it or doesn't (you die) . However you cannot afford to be on one setting all the time or even for very long with multiple opponent types. So you choose your immunity according to best need and your target priority too so you can then afford to switch shield type. Shields like that would make the game very tactically expressive as well as a great beat & shoot 'em up.
I have no problems with shields per se - they're a part of 40K and have been since the very beginning - it's more that I don't want the game to just have a shield mechanic built in to represent your armour. If he's going to have recharging shields, then he better have an actual force field.
The Kan wrote:They did a half-decent crosspromotion in the Xbox Live Arcade/PSN game 'Kill-Team'(which looks like it'll be a good way to introduce console players who haven't played DOW to 40k) where you get a Power Sword for simply playing the first level of the full game. At $10/800 MS points--it's about the same for the entire game as most DLC packages on the consoles.
As mentioned, that’s THQ’s doing. They are the publisher, so it’s their job to promote the game. That’s what they get paid to do. In GW’s defence (yes, I really did just type that), they aren’t the publisher of Kill-Team (or Space Marine for that matter), so it isn’t their job to promote it.
However, given that they:
1). Have a website. 2). Have a monthly magazine. 3). Already own the IP.
... there’s nothing stopping them from using their own resources to promote the game and/or using it to further promote their main product (ie. the table-top game) via articles, developer interviews and even limited edition miniature releases (in Finecast!!!). They lose nothing from doing this, and the only reasons I can think of why they wouldn’t are because there’s a clause in their contract with THQ that forbids them from advertising Relic’s game in their magazine (though that seems unlikely) or they’re lazy and just see these licensed products as a revenue stream (no matter how much better it would be if they harnessed that extra revenue stream for the purposes of their core games) or they’re just that stupid and really don’t get this whole ‘marketing/cross-promotion’ thing.
Take your pick on what’s more likely.
Just Dave wrote:Correct me if I'm wrong though, but that's not GW's advertising/cross-promotion, it's the developers/publishers of the games themselves and doesn't promote the hobby as directly as select miniatures would. So it's another fumble by GW? [/HBMC]
Not quite. As I said above, it’s not actually GW’s responsibility to market and promote these games (unlike Ultramarines, where GW did nothing and left it all to the developers – that was their fault). But as I said above, they lose nothing by using their own existing marketing methods (website, White Dwarf) to promote these.
So do they have to promote this game or release Ltd. Ed. Models? Of course not. THQ is the publisher – that’s their bag, now GW’s. Are they failing terribly and consistently when it comes to very simply opportunities like this? Yes.
Delephont wrote:Are you serious? You don't think the gaming company paid GW for a license to use their I.P.? So, the more people buy the games, the more desirable the license will be for the gaming company, they will continue to PAYGW to retain the license....hence, buying the game promotes further payments to GW for the use of their I.P.....simples?!?
His Master's Voice wrote:Well, you are indirectly infusing GW with your own blood by buying a game based on a GW licensed IP.
Oh aren't you two adorable!!! So desperate are you to catch me out as 'lying' about my own personal boycott that you'll use anything as a chance to slip me up.
One again, for the record:
I said I was not going to buy any more GW products once the embargo came into place. This includes Forge World and Black Library (not that I’ve ever bought a BL book, but whatever...). The embargo is now in place. Money spent since embargo came in = $0.
Space Marine, a game developed by Relic, published by THQ, is not a GW product. Dark Heresy/Rogue Trader/Deathwatch/Black Crusade are games developed by FFG*, published by FFG, and are not GW products.
So trol... uhh... I mean try a little harder guys. But rest assured – the next time I walk past my local GW, I’ll be sure to inform you so you can call me a hypocrite for being in the vicinity of a GW store...
*Off a model created by Black Industries, who were shuttered by GW because the 40KRPG was just too much of a success and sold too well!!!
H.B.M.C. wrote: Oh aren't you two adorable!!! So desperate are you to catch me out as 'lying' about my own personal boycott that you'll use anything as a chance to slip me up.
One again, for the record:
I said I was not going to buy any more GW products once the embargo came into place. This includes Forge World and Black Library (not that I’ve ever bought a BL book, but whatever...). The embargo is now in place. Money spent since embargo came in = $0.
Space Marine, a game developed by Relic, published by THQ, is not a GW product.
Dark Heresy/Rogue Trader/Deathwatch/Black Crusade are games developed by FFG*, published by FFG, and are not GW products.
So trol... uhh... I mean try a little harder guys. But rest assured – the next time I walk past my local GW, I’ll be sure to inform you so you can call me a hypocrite for being in the vicinity of a GW store...
*Off a model created by Black Industries, who were shuttered by GW because the 40KRPG was just too much of a success and sold too well!!!
You really do see demons in the shadows don't you.....
When I first made the comment, I was simply being "light-hearted"....you did notice I said "we" in regards to boycotting GW? and you did notice the smiley?....
My second comment was to remove your ignorance regarding the economics of the situation. One that you seem hell bent on ignoring anyway...which, really does more to make a joke out of your "boycott" than if you did walk into a GW and buy as much FineCast as you could.
I'll try again though...cause I care
Any product that uses GW's I.P. regardless of whether it is produced by GW or not, will mean that somewhere in the process, GW has been financially rewarded for the useof said I.P......are you still following me?......moving on. The desirability of the I.P that, for example, Fantasy Flight Games or THQ, has paid for will be evident in product sales.....still following?.....Sooooo, the more product sales, the more these secondary companies will wish to retain their license agreements with GW, and part of the money generated from product sales will be re-invested, in the form of payments to GW to pay for license renewal.
So in supporting THQ or FFG by buying products based on GW I.P. = support of GW.
Delephont wrote:You really do see demons in the shadows don't you.....
Given I had three people coming at me in another thread on this exact topic, I’d say it’s more than a little justified. Some of you (not necessarily you Delephont) have some twisted desire to see me fall, to pick apart my words and to witness me cave into GW and buy something. And then it happens again here – so what else was my response going to be? Put you and HMV on ignore?
Delephont wrote:When I first made the comment, I was simply being "light-hearted"....you did notice I said "we" in regards to boycotting GW? and you did notice the smiley?....
The internet is a medium that does not transfer tone very well. That said, I did miss that, and for that I apologise.
Delephont wrote:My second comment was to remove your ignorance regarding the economics of the situation.
I understand how licensing works and how these other companies pay GW a fee for the rights to use their IP. I’m not ignorant of that fact. But it’s a fair stretch to say that I’m supporting GW (and making a ‘mockery’ of my boycott) when I buy something that is neither produced nor published by GW and that GW does not promote or even sell.
But, once again, I apologise for the misunderstanding.
H.B.M.C. wrote:I have no problems with shields per se - they're a part of 40K and have been since the very beginning - it's more that I don't want the game to just have a shield mechanic built in to represent your armour. If he's going to have recharging shields, then he better have an actual force field.
The Kan wrote:They did a half-decent crosspromotion in the Xbox Live Arcade/PSN game 'Kill-Team'(which looks like it'll be a good way to introduce console players who haven't played DOW to 40k) where you get a Power Sword for simply playing the first level of the full game. At $10/800 MS points--it's about the same for the entire game as most DLC packages on the consoles.
As mentioned, that’s THQ’s doing. They are the publisher, so it’s their job to promote the game. That’s what they get paid to do. In GW’s defence (yes, I really did just type that), they aren’t the publisher of Kill-Team (or Space Marine for that matter), so it isn’t their job to promote it.
However, given that they:
1). Have a website.
2). Have a monthly magazine.
3). Already own the IP.
... there’s nothing stopping them from using their own resources to promote the game and/or using it to further promote their main product (ie. the table-top game) via articles, developer interviews and even limited edition miniature releases (in Finecast!!!). They lose nothing from doing this, and the only reasons I can think of why they wouldn’t are because there’s a clause in their contract with THQ that forbids them from advertising Relic’s game in their magazine (though that seems unlikely) or they’re lazy and just see these licensed products as a revenue stream (no matter how much better it would be if they harnessed that extra revenue stream for the purposes of their core games) or they’re just that stupid and really don’t get this whole ‘marketing/cross-promotion’ thing.
Take your pick on what’s more likely.
I know your point. However, what I want to know is what market does White Dwarf reach that E3 coverage doesn't?
That’s not really what I’m getting at though. As I said, it’s not GW’s responsibility to promote these games and – if I’m honest – they shouldn’t have to. That’s the publisher’s job, not GW’s.
My point though is that these other games could be used to promote their own core product. Having an article about the upcoming game in WD is all well and good, but it doesn’t ultimately serve GW. It might help the sales of the game, which indirectly will help GW – and GW certainly lose nothing by doing this – but there’s so much more that they could do.
I’ll use Dark Crusade as an example, as it was one of those things that was just crying out for a little bit of effort from GW:
At Dark Crusade’s core were the 7 different commanders – the Blood Raven Captain, Guard Commander, Eldar Farseer, Warboss Gorgutz, Eliphas the Inheritor, Commander O’Kais and the Necron Lord. Now GW could have just put an article about the game in WD, but that’s dull (and as I said, doesn’t help them that much), but imagine a limited edition boxed set with one of each of these models in there? Then put their rules into that month’s White Dwarf (and then later on the website). Put in a few scenarios into a ‘Dawn of War’ article in WD. Even have that month’s battle report be a match between the Blood Raven Captain and the menacing Warboss Gorgutz, playing one of the scenarios using the new models. That’s the kind’ve WD even I’d buy, and I’d buy the models even though I don’t have all of those armies. Collector’s would lap that up like crazy (a lot of us love Ltd. Ed models), and modellers would like the idea of a box filled with unique models (bit more exciting than another 10 Tac Marines).
Now do the same for the Ultramarine’s movie – a three-part scenario in WD using the characters and situations from the movie – plus a Ltd. Ed. Captain Whathisface available in store for that month only.
Now do it for Dawn of War II (I’d kill for that a model of that female Witch Hunter...)...
Now do it for Space Marine...
Now for Kill Team...
And so on.
It’s one thing to say “GW should promote another company’s game that just happens to be based on their IP”. It’s another actually cross-promote and use the game to further promote your own game via WD, the website and limited edition models.
Well he is wearing a Iron Halo and it would represent the shield i would think. Otherwise it seems like a fun, shoot em up chop em up game without the sitting behind cover and taking pot shots at the enemy.
Im just wondering what the camera will be like though
The camera is like the middle class, if your not controlling it is busy plotting your downfall! Think yawtze said it *cant spell his name*
nieto666 wrote:It looks like a pretty cool game. Almost has a Gears feel to it.
The first version of it that had a video leak a few years back was alot more Gears of War-ish than this one, to a ridiculous extent. I absolutely love Gears (I got the seriously achievement almost 3 times over) but I think this iteration better captures the combat. The video from before had bolt pistols somehow only *stunning* enemies that you then had to finish in a Gears-style chainsaw execution move. I definitely prefer the current mix of Gears shooting but Devil may cry close combat.
RiTides wrote:Darn netbook can't watch the video more than frame by frame...
What netbook and what stats? I've been considering getting one for web browsing (a 1gig RAM atom acer netbook). If they can't even run non-HD video, I'll pass.
My point though is that these other games could be used to promote their own core product.
I have noticed these missed opportunities over the years. GW has rarely reacted, and then usually very late to cross marketing opportunities. One example are the hero stats for Shas' Kais from Fire Warrior, but that was too little too late. GW cannot be blamed for that games failures but can be blamed for the failure to capitalise on the franchise crossovers.
Allowing for the momentos added to collectors edition games such as Tamriel coinage sold with Collectors editions of Oblivion, Pipboys etc it beggars belief why GW do not add LE custom miniatures for each collecters edition boxset. Unlike other companies the infrastructure for the gimic with the game is already in place and has a real value to it. All it takes to get someone into the hobby is to accompany the miniature with a painting guide on the game disk and a link to where the paints can be bought, straight to a tailor made page on the GW website. GW make enough LE marines that this new Captain Titus should have his own mini, better yet have one showing the new Finecast and complete with several weapon options usable in the game.
The Dawn of War Imperial Guard general with lightning claws deserved a figure too etc.
Needless to say all these miniatures should come Chapter Approved for any special rules or wargear they have, and for their respective armies, no delays no hassles just Chapter Approved stamp them from the outset. Yes its outside procedure, but that is what corporate cooperation is all about. The LE miniature will sell collectors edition copies and game producers would appreciate the support which can only help with regards to future projects. It shouldn't be too hard for GW to work out and balance a single character miniature, though from past record in this as in other things competence is in short supply.
The big problem is that GW thinks of computer games as free money in. It certainly is, but they have it in their heads that best results are achieved on near 100% income as profit, wheras a little spending of their own will bring in a healthy dividend.
Brother SRM wrote:Orks aren't as strong as a Space Marine because that wouldn't be as fun. It's more fun to cut down hordes of enemies punctuated by tougher, more equal enemies (Nobs, Chaos Marines) than it is to fight guys who just refuse to die. It doesn't feel badass to struggle with each and every enemy.
Not necessarily true
In Ninja gaiden Ryu always feels like a badass, despite the fact that even the weakest enemy has the potential to kill you if your not always on guard
Kanluwen wrote:
I know your point. However, what I want to know is what market does White Dwarf reach that E3 coverage doesn't?
Older veteran gamers who didn't grow up with the twitch games? I know a few that buy/collect GW stuff but don't play anything on a console and only do turn based stuff on computers (mainly historical battle games). Those types generally don't follow E3 coverage.
Orlanth wrote:The big problem is that GW thinks of computer games as free money in. It certainly is, but they have it in their heads that best results are achieved on near 100% income as profit, wheras a little spending of their own will bring in a healthy dividend.
That’s what it comes down to. These are no expenditure/no loss situations for them. They don’t have to do anything to get the agreed upon amount from whoever is using their IP – the typical focus on the short term/ignore the long term mentality that pervades all of GW that isn’t a satellite company (note how different FW and BL are to GW proper... it’s truly astonishing). Any sensible company with an inkling of business sense though would understand that they can get so much more than the agreed upon amount with just a little bit of effort.
Making a character model is not an out-there crazy concept. If they can do it once a year with Games Day and create a whole 2nd hand market, imagine what they could do with simultaneous miniature releases and WD support? The White Dwarf stuff is a wash as their writers were going to write something to fill those pages anyway, so might as well make it something people want to read, and then the model is a little expenditure for far more (potential) gain than they get from just sitting on their narrow-minded corrupt asses.
H.B.M.C. wrote:I love it how I said "He has regenerating shields! This is Halo" and everyone's response was "Would you rather have health packs?".
Health =/= Shields folks.
The way you get more health by getting stuck into combat may be artificial, but it's a good way of pushing the player into combat and is more Marine like. It's having regenerating shields as standard that annoys me. I hope that he had that because of a piece of wargear, and not just due to lazy design decisions on the part of the developers.
And, as an aside, to comment on what Yhatzee said a while back - what did health packs ever do to us? When was the collective decision made to replace health packs (which were unrealistic) with recharging health (which is also unrealistic).
Perkustin wrote:Oh and how come there is no mini with the special edition? A 'captain titus' with a heavy bolter and official rules anyone?
I think GW have yet again missed a trick marketing wise.
To GW: Next time have a voucher for £5-10 off AOBR (or whatever the new edition will be called) you will sell loads....
Yep. GW ultra-fails at cross promotion. There should have been minis for the commanders from Dark Crusade. There should have been a set for the Ultramarine's movie. There should be something for this. But, I guess when it comes to GW, if at first they don't suceed... fail and fail some more!
You have some very good ideas here, but why do I get the feeling you would have been unhappy even if they had come out with cross promotional figures? Doubtlessly there would be some unforgivable flaw in the price, design, etc...
Also, game looks surprisingly slick. Not (really) into shooters and I wasn't considering getting it until seeing it move.
This looks awesome! Definite purchase from this guy. I just have 1 question and one comment about some of the other posts. (Sorry for being a little late to the party.)
- (Comment) In the ork Codex it states that boys are mainly just a little taller than average humans and therefore would be on relative strength terms. It's Nobz that are huge and powerful like Space Marines. So the gameplay works for me.
-(Question) As far as the plasma gun firing in a "weird" lobbing way. Isn't this how a plasma gun would fire IRL? I mean it is a "ball" of plasma suspended in a magnetic field. Would lobbing not make more sense?
H.B.M.C. wrote:I love it how I said "He has regenerating shields! This is Halo" and everyone's response was "Would you rather have health packs?".
No, we said it was an extremely tenuous connection considering all the ways this is NOT like Halo. Both games have targeting reticles. OH GOD THIS IS HALO ALL OVER AGAIN.
You were blatantly incorrect, don't try to ignore what SRM said.
And, as an aside, to comment on what Yhatzee said a while back - what did health packs ever do to us? When was the collective decision made to replace health packs (which were unrealistic) with recharging health (which is also unrealistic).
Imperial Guard commanders often have gorget-mounted force fields, it's not a stretch to think Marines would have something like that in their armor - which might just be the in-game explanation given. When the character is shown wearing an Iron Halo there's a new Iron Halo-shaped emblem above the shields on the screen, so maybe there are ways to strengthen the in-built shield?
Never mind the talk about being "unrealistic" or otherwise when you're playing an 8-foot tall supersoldier who can spit acid and eat the brains of the anthropomorphic fungi to learn how they talk with Cockney accents.
ImperialTard wrote:You have some very good ideas here, but why do I get the feeling you would have been unhappy even if they had come out with cross promotional figures? Doubtlessly there would be some unforgivable flaw in the price, design, etc...
Probably with the character's rules, but I don't really care about the rules. Limited edition models? I'm all over that. The rules bother me not. If they'd done a cross-promotion I'd've been over the moon at them showing some actual business sense. I don't need to find errors where there are none - GW often makes so many mistakes that I don't have to go looking for them - so no, I wouldn't've found a flaw in anything they did.
bhsman wrote:No, we said it was an extremely tenuous connection considering all the ways this is NOT like Halo. Both games have targeting reticles. OH GOD THIS IS HALO ALL OVER AGAIN.
Don't be obtuse. The recharging shield thing began with Halo and has been adopted by everything since (even Firewarrior... where it was oddly justifiable... anyway I digress...). I did like Resistance 1's way of doing it - four health 'bars', and each one would regenerate if it was partially wounded, but a full 'bar' that had been lost could only be healed by a medkit or something like that. It was a nice mix of the two ideas - a healthy (if you'll excuse the pun) middle ground.
bhsman wrote:Imperial Guard commanders often have gorget-mounted force fields, it's not a stretch to think Marines would have something like that in their armor - which might just be the in-game explanation given. When the character is shown wearing an Iron Halo there's a new Iron Halo-shaped emblem above the shields on the screen, so maybe there are ways to strengthen the in-built shield?
But Marines don't have shields/force fields (as standard). We know this. Now, of course, the Marine in the first clip may have a shield, and, in fact, given that he's a Captain he may even have a basic form of field as standard (making the Iron Halo an upgrade), in which case fine, I've obviously leapt to a conclusion and I'm quite capable of admitting that. I just don't want 'recharging shields' on my Marine without some justification outside of "every game does it these days".
bhsman wrote:Never mind the talk about being "unrealistic" or otherwise when you're playing an 8-foot tall supersoldier who can spit acid and eat the brains of the anthropomorphic fungi to learn how they talk with Cockney accents.
A real non-argument there bhsman. It's more a case of having something that's different to other games rather than just having a cop-out and using recharging shields 'cause everyone else does. I like the 'kill things = get more health' concept whcih is, as I said, as artificial as health packs, but meshes with the game. The recharge shield things (assuming that it's standard and not wargear based) just seems lazy to me.
Did I explain that clearly enough?
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Mr.Church13 wrote:-(Question) As far as the plasma gun firing in a "weird" lobbing way. Isn't this how a plasma gun would fire IRL? I mean it is a "ball" of plasma suspended in a magnetic field. Would lobbing not make more sense?
Heh. "In real life". A blast of plasma fired from a gun would likely fly straight up, because it would be so much lighter than air it's not funny. And even if you could find a way to launch out from the barrel of the gun at any sort of speed, it would be akin to throwing a balloon at someone (we've all seen what happens when you throw a balloon). And all of this only comes about with the assumption that you can somehow create a magnetic field that is self-sustaining and will fly along with the plasma in side it.
To put it another way, never say "how it would work IRL" and "plasma guns" in the same sentence.
A loved sell-argument to parents is that "And of course painting and playing with friends is a LOT better that sitting in front of the computer all day long".
With this kind of statements I am not surprised that GW doesn´t advertise the Videogames at all.
I went to E3 yesterday (thanks work!) and made my first stop the Space Marine booth - which was actually a pretty decent looking Ultramarine drop pod, complete with rotating deathwind launcher. I was splitting my time waiting looking at that and the spokesmodels handing out scratcher-cards to win a free shirt.
Now, it was too damn noisy in there (both the pod and E3 in general) to hear much of the sound, but the game looked really good and played pretty well. Except...
My major complaint - the camera. Yup, it's always the camera in games like this. In a couple places where there was ample ceiling space for the camera to pull back to give you a better look at what you are doing, it would just flick about almost aimlessly and clip through your character and other enemies to try and find its place again.
This tended to happen most in corners, but not just room corners. At one point I was fighting against an ork nob with a shoota up on a higher L-shaped platform, but in an outside space. There would have been plenty of room for the camera to go upwards or back a bit to give you a better angle, but the camera seemed to be tethered at a fixed height and distance from the back of your character. The camera still managed to get all goofed up and boxed into that inside corner of the L-shaped platform where I wound up fighting the Nob.
This happened again in an inside space where I opened a drawbridge-like door to outside. There was a narrow walkway with a railing around it to one side of the door where I wound up fighting a more melee-oriented Nob. The camera got boxed in and I could hardly tell what was going on.
It's like the camera is a second character behind you, set to Follow. It seems to obey the same physics rules that your character does, so it needs a ground plane to move on and cannot move around obstacles.
I really hope they get the camera fixed, because if not I can just see this being a frustrating gaming experience.
I saw Kill Team there as well, which looked very fun, and am pretty sure I'll pick up. There was disappointingly NOTHING new for the 40K MMO game Dark Millenium, which was one of my big reasons for wanting to see E3 in the first place. There was just a small booth with a well-made 40k-looking statue and a video playing.
I was kind of hoping for a melee lock-on camera akin to Darksiders, but it looks like it is just like the God of War camera that floats above and near you.
I don't think I HAVEN'T hit a frustrating spot struggling with the camera in any of those games, hopefully they will smooth it out a bit before launch.
I guess if the camera is driving you nuts, just make sure you're shooting instead of trying to slice things up.
GoW and Batman AA managed fine without lock on, if the enemy attacks in hordes it is generally preferable not to have an obvious lock on, instead focus on the orientation of your character's attacks uising the left stick.
Indeed, what i liked especially about Batman AA was that, if you are fighting several enemies, you could fire off rapid fire hits at several enemies just by twitching the joystick (kick HIM, punch HIM, throw HIM etc etc).
you woudl think that in a swirlgin melee you woudl lash out at whomever rather than just lock in on eon body and let the other smack you around.
His Master's Voice wrote:Call it health, or whatever if it makes you feel better.
And apparently the Meltagun is a member of the Shotgun family.
It is a weapon with a 12 inch range. It would seem very clunky in the game if it did exactly what true meltaguns do, considering that this is a hack and slash game.
daedalus-templarius wrote:Very long 18m interview with gameplay footage
Think this settles your fears about regenerating health HBMC
The shield was from the Iron Halo and the regenerating health is just tied into the combat, as long as you kill it stays up, if you don't it drops rapidly from the damage you receive
Not a bad game mechanic I think you'd agree?
What chapter of Chaos Space Marine is that? It doesn't look like one which would summon Bloodletters, I'd say more along the lines of Horrors or daemonettes
I've heard them say Chaos Undivided before when referring to the CSM you fight, so it might not just be one particular chapter/warband.
I imagine they will do some more camera tweaking before the game actually releases, as they've said before they are trying very hard to get it absolutely right.
Considering Kill Team is supposed to release fairly soon, and Space Marine is scheduled for a bit later--I think that's why we're seeing Kill Team now.
Mr.Church13 wrote:-(Question) As far as the plasma gun firing in a "weird" lobbing way. Isn't this how a plasma gun would fire IRL? I mean it is a "ball" of plasma suspended in a magnetic field. Would lobbing not make more sense?
Heh. "In real life". A blast of plasma fired from a gun would likely fly straight up, because it would be so much lighter than air it's not funny. And even if you could find a way to launch out from the barrel of the gun at any sort of speed, it would be akin to throwing a balloon at someone (we've all seen what happens when you throw a balloon).
A valid assessment. I suppose this would depend on how much mass real plasma has.
There seems to be a lot of people throwing around logic in this thread. Plasma bolts floating straight up, regenerating health making more logical sense than health packs, and on it goes.
Now this might just be me, but I want my game to be fun more than I want it to be logical. If I wanted realism, I'd go do something real, rather than playing a video game. When I sit down for an FPS, I want to blow away scores of enemies with a dizzying variety of bizzare and entertaining weapons. The regenerating health thing may be more popular recently, but I don't personally enjoy the mechanic. I think it was a Halo gimic that encourages more downtime and less combat. I'm glad to hear the possibility that this game encourages you to be out and about rather than hiding behind a wall.
Again, I understand that my opinions aren't those of the majority, but I just thought I would weigh in.
H.B.M.C. wrote:But Marines don't have shields/force fields (as standard). We know this. Now, of course, the Marine in the first clip may have a shield, and, in fact, given that he's a Captain he may even have a basic form of field as standard (making the Iron Halo an upgrade), in which case fine, I've obviously leapt to a conclusion and I'm quite capable of admitting that. I just don't want 'recharging shields' on my Marine without some justification outside of "every game does it these days".
So you're upset about a game mechanic that was introduced ten years ago making into a modern game? Really? And you're assuming they put it in there...just because?
Maybe they could call it armor and have their integrated armor repair systems be the answer for the regeneration? I mean, all space marines do have power armor with a lot of resilience in each set. Just a thought.
