From a lore standpoint how do you guys think a revised Tau is going to look? More grimdark or more good guy clean shine?

Me and a friend were talking about this the other day and he brought up a good point, he believes Tau will get more squeaky clean while Farsight will get more evil. I didn't really think of it that way, but Farsight is kind of the Tau's ability to have an evil side while being nice guys. Anyways, I was wondering what the overall verdict would be. Do you guys think it will be more evil or good for Tau? Has the dark galaxy had enough of an effect to make the Tau evil baddies?

Clean, and efficient.
As suits their culture.
IMO Grimdark is about a scary amount of lavishness on weapons and tools of war, which the Tau aren't.
Though i could see Farsight doing it... sort of...

purplefood wrote:Clean, and efficient.
As suits their culture.
IMO Grimdark is about a scary amount of lavishness on weapons and tools of war, which the Tau aren't.
Though i could see Farsight doing it... sort of...

I see the Tau becoming more hostile toward the galaxy after the Necrons, Dark Eldar, and Human conflicts.

I think that they were moving toward that in fluff. What started as peaceful annexations in the DG, became pretty militant on Taros and Nimbosa later on. With one Commander commiting war crimes he was so brutal.

I can see them becomming more wary and possibly a bit more hostile but i'm not sure whether their aesthetic would change that much to reflect it...

I could see it going 2 ways.


the Etherials could become extinct and the Tau would descend into barbarisim again: More Grimdark.

or,

a larger group of Tau joins Farsight and basically splits the Tau Empire in 2. one half follows the Etherials and the Greater good. the other follows Farsight and the crusade to save their species from Extinction.


the Farsight group becomes extremely Xenophobic. only tolerating other Tau. they advance their suit technology to include close combat advances and more powerful weapons.

the Etherial group focuses more on synergy between the various alien races in combat. they also advance their vehicle and FW weaponry.



a Tau force begins by choosing HQs from either the Farsight or the Etherial led forces. this determines your FoC options.


Farsight would have Fire Warriors as troops, but they would be limited in numbers. Farsight himself would allow Suits to be Troops.

he would also unlock CCW upgrades and also different types of suits. possably a heavier version of an XV8 that is more geared for close combat. a Terminator if you will.


the Etherial would unlock more disciplined fire warriors,

possably Kroot and Vespid HQs.

The Tau become more in tune with the warp and begin to have to defend against demon incursions because they are naive to haw to defend themselves against such things. So while increasing their Empire in size conflict also comes from every direction; Imperium, Eldar, Orks, more Tyranid, necrons, dark eldar.

All of these from increasing the size of their territory. The demons from becoming new prey in the warp.

Hopefully they don't make any more Tau books and Squat the lot. Nah, I don't mean that. I do hope that they stick with the ranged attitude and don't make a dedicated CC unit.

I think the Tau will become more Grimdark because that is what the kiddies want.

It will be a mistake, because all the other factions are Grimdark factions and the background needs a bit of relief. Tau are popular with Tau players because they aren't Grimdark.

GW will screw it up and Grimdarkify Tau for the kiddies.

I think they'll stay more or less the same...the only problem I see them having is the Empire starting another Expansion and trying to stay connected without FTL travel...I can see the Empire failing w/o highspeed transport and it getting too large

I actually very much enjoy their look (other than all the Kroot). Their vehicles are perfect, the suits need to look more like the FW versions. Firewarriors could use with a slight update, but the basic idea is very sound.

After so many Imperial vehicles, I'm itching to paint up some aliens. It's going to be Dark Eldar, Necrons or Tau. Still waiting for all the books to drop.

Kilkrazy wrote:I think the Tau will become more Grimdark because that is what the kiddies want.

It will be a mistake, because all the other factions are Grimdark factions and the background needs a bit of relief. Tau are popular with Tau players because they aren't Grimdark.

GW will screw it up and Grimdarkify Tau for the kiddies.

As much as I don't want to agree with this, I completely do

*le sigh*

I'd love to see the Tau's naivety and openness to ally with other races blunted by the ever-hostile galaxy.

I want to see them realise that the only way to survive and expand is to be brutal. I want to see ever-more advanced weaponry, shields and stealth technology in abundance.

I want to see the Tau attacking without mercy, using other races' FTL technology and integrating astropaths into their expansion and pushing forward with such ferocity that they truly become a threat to the other races...


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In fact, expanding the idea, I want the Tau to be the adolescents of the 40K universe. Once full of bright ideals and a fair philosophy, they're realising that the galaxy is not a friendly place. They're a little scared of the future, very confused about how to survive but, above all, they are truly angry, furious, that the other, older races cannot understand them and they are responding with the only thing they know: fury. I want the Tau to be merciless, cold, calculating. Not Khornate rage, no frothy-mouthed blood lust and battle cries, not for the children of T'au, but a relentless drive to kill those who will not join them, no matter the casualties or cost in the lives of the Tau...

The tau are already subtely grimdark. Their entire population is brainwashed, they live like 40 years max, they are surrounded by all the big hitters in the galaxy IOM one of the bigger hive fleets and Ultramar. Also communism is bad. So at first glance they seem nice but it's the knife you don't see that kills you

Yeah, GW already started grimdarking them, its just noone bothered to read the fluff pieces in their current codex, or if they did, they missed the grimdark bits beacause they are either poorly written or not that obvious. But off the top of my head, there is the bit about the mind control helmets worn by the vespid leadership, and the bit about the acts of genocide committed against a xenos species that refused to join the Empire... and I haven't read the codex in years...

Miraclefish wrote:I'd love to see the Tau's naivety and openness to ally with other races blunted by the ever-hostile galaxy.

I want to see them realise that the only way to survive and expand is to be brutal. ...

...
...

That's what I meant.



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chaos0xomega wrote:Yeah, GW already started grimdarking them, its just noone bothered to read the fluff pieces in their current codex, or if they did, they missed the grimdark bits beacause they are either poorly written or not that obvious. But off the top of my head, there is the bit about the mind control helmets worn by the vespid leadership, and the bit about the acts of genocide committed against a xenos species that refused to join the Empire... and I haven't read the codex in years...

Well, they are bleenobvious and poorly written.

The "Emporer Ming of Mongo" new style of Ethereals made it obvious.

That said, how was GW to justify charging £12 for a 64pp book when it only had four new units in it, most of which were gak. They had to muck around with the fluff a bit. Pity they took out the interesting characters like Aun'Shi in favour of non-entitities such as Space Pope and Commander Shadowsun.

I could see the Tau perhaps being a lot more aggressive and non-compromising in their spread of the Greater Good. It may end up to where you have factions within the Tau forces that proclaim that the galaxy is collectively corrupt beyond redemption and must be subjagated for the Greater Good of all.

Something like the Qunari in Dragon Age would be interesting.

Now, as far as a change in aesthetics, I'm very much in favor of more 'rugged' and militant(as oppossed to the 'industrial') looks for battlesuits. That is to say, some Tau units, namely the original XV8 battlesuits and pretty much every Battlefleet Gothic ship I've seen are uncharacteristically blocky. I would instead like to see an aesthetic style like that of the XV9 battlesuits:

XV9s will probably be in a new codex.

Yeah, if the new Tau book adopts the XV9 suits and GW releases an appropriate kit (then again, their new resin models are no cheaper than FW in many instances), I'll be all over it.

I like the Tau as they are. They don't need any grimdark bs, the Tau are scary enough as they are. After all their entire philosophy is based on "The blue man's burden" to civilise a savage galaxy, no matter what the dirty natives want ( after all, it's for their own good ).

I like them being the little pinprick of light in a galaxy of war and hatred. Every other race is grimdark(tm) enough as it is. However, I also like the idea that something sinister may be going on behind the scenes in Tau culture.

Honestly, I think all it would take to turn the Tau grimdark would be a rather...creative intrepretaion of the Greater Good. Ethereals wield ridiculous amounts of influence and, working in concert, they could conceivably sway their forces to do any number of distasteful in the name of the Tau'va.

Come to think of it, it wouldn't even really take a 'mwahaha' interpretation of the Greater Good. Technically speaking, it WOULD be beneficial to the galaxy in the Tau say, in an attempt to weaken Chaos(assuming they could understand the threat) exterminated some particularly corrupt human worlds or something. But that's getting pretty 'out there'...

The Vespid 'communion helm' is a device for communication. It is hinted at by Imperial sources that it could be a 'brain washing' device. The imperium is not the bastion of truth and justice most people seem to think it is.

No grimdark Tau. The optimistic and reluctant enemy is the best fit for them. GW should not have started to stray from the first codex.

Why can't the Tau be the good guys with no hidden agenda.

Perhaps the Tau Empire and Ultramar should form a new alliance, bonded together by the hate the seem to recieve.

They can't be the good guys with no hidden agenda because their agenda is blatantly obvious.

iproxtaco wrote:They can't be the good guys with no hidden agenda because their agenda is blatantly obvious.

Exactly. They are good and their motives are clear.

iproxtaco wrote:They can't be the good guys with no hidden agenda because their agenda is blatantly obvious.

Yet every source that supports that claim is written from an Imperial perspective. All 40k fluff is open to interpretation-it could always be Imperial propoganda, especially when concerning xenos.

Almost everything is written from an Imperial perspective, except a few choice BL books and The Codices, which backs up this. Are you saying that everything written from an Imperial perspective should be ignored? Then the Word Bearers novels and the upcoming Eldar series should be ignored aswell?


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Medium of Death wrote:

iproxtaco wrote:They can't be the good guys with no hidden agenda because their agenda is blatantly obvious.

Exactly. They are good and their motives are clear.

Not 'good', just 'further towards good on the scale of morality than every other race'.

Anyway this is all speculation so I am transferring it to the 40K General Discussion forum.

Everyone does realize the Farsight will be long dead when the new codex comes out right? Unless they go all Wardy on him and he is now some immortal.

Saying "so everything written from the IoM perspective needs to be ignored?" is just being obtuse. A lot of the 'fluff' in the Tau codex is written by imerial agents. So it needs to be taken with a grain of salt is all. Do you really think an imperial agent would report back, "Upon further inspection these guys are actually pretty cool!"

Uh, no. He'd be killed.

Tau need to remain the brighter spot in the galaxy. But the suits definitely need an upgrade. And I think to keep up with the arms race, they would eventually make a heavier version of the hammerhead (TL-railgun) or a highly specialized tank hunting suit.

the speculation is that Farsight himself died along time ago and the reigning leader of the Farsight enclaves simply take on his name and wields his wargear.


or that the blade he has is tainted by chaos and has prolonged his life.

Or "Dread Pirate Roberts" scenario.

Or most likely that GW do not count.

Kilkrazy wrote:I think the Tau will become more Grimdark because that is what the kiddies want.

Far from it. Take a look at the FFG supplement, "Mark of the Xenos" and the way the Tau are being showcased in there. They're far from being "grimdark".

The closest thing to "grimdark" I can find is the piece on "Commander Flamewing". When the last Ethereal on a planet he and his Hunter Cadre were holding died, his Fire Caste became more and more aggressive, and actually fought one another.
Only the fact that he mustered them for a death or glory assault upon the Tyranids kept them from killing each other.

That's a bit of 'grimdarking', but at the same time...it fits the nature of the Tau.

It will be a mistake, because all the other factions are Grimdark factions and the background needs a bit of relief. Tau are popular with Tau players because they aren't Grimdark.

Can you say that 100%? I've seen more people who like Tau for their technology and the fact that they're a force where specialists truly are specialists.

GW will screw it up and Grimdarkify Tau for the kiddies.

What exactly are we defining as 'grimdarkifying'?

The Tau becoming more 'wary' of the galaxy at large, and rather than being "Let's be friends!" become "Join us or suffer the consequences" is perfectly reasonable.

And for that matter, look at the depiction of the Tau in the Dark Eldar book. They're far from "grimdark" but are clearly starting to come to grips with a galaxy at war.

I really want Tau to stay good. Including a "good" faction makes the whole setting so much darker. It shows they don't have to be evil. With the good Tau there is hope however small. Without them the galaxy is pretty screwed so it isn't really that important who wins.

Unfortunately I think GW will make them darker as they have been doing it in a lot of the more recent fluff. They should be highlighting the Tau's attempts to be good and making everyone else look bad but I think it will turn into a competition of who can be the most grimdark. I also expect GW to greatly increase the size of the Tau empire. While not as powerful as the IoM they are described as a powerful forc. With such a tiny area of space it doesn't make sense for them to be so powerful.

It's a shame as I really like my Tau but turning them into another version of the IoM will kill my interest. A lot of Tau players I know like them because they are different. They may be naive and have tiny insignificant empire but they are trying to improve the galaxy.

Ronin-Sage wrote:Now, as far as a change in aesthetics, I'm very much in favor of more 'rugged' and militant(as oppossed to the 'industrial') looks for battlesuits. That is to say, some Tau units, namely the original XV8 battlesuits and pretty much every Battlefleet Gothic ship I've seen are uncharacteristically blocky. I would instead like to see an aesthetic style like that of the XV9 battlesuits:

Looks like something off of gundam.

I like it.

Their units could us this military aspect for their appearance. The all seem to be more like space miners or something.

If they wanted to make the Tau look a bit less 90's Gundam and a bit more aggressive/sleek and less optimistic/naeive I'd be ok with it. It would show they are "growing up" as such, realizing the horrors of a galaxy threatened by unending alien swarms and a nether dimension of madness, dominated by an oppressive and backward militarized society and populated by things more ancient than they can comprehend. Basically give them a look that says "well, the greater good is nice and all, and that's really how we'd want to play things, but we've got a *lot* of killing to do before we can think about that stuff again".

I think FW's newer Tau stuff has gone in a good direction on that note.

Kilkrazy wrote:I think the Tau will become more Grimdark because that is what the kiddies want.

It will be a mistake, because all the other factions are Grimdark factions and the background needs a bit of relief. Tau are popular with Tau players because they aren't Grimdark.

GW will screw it up and Grimdarkify Tau for the kiddies.

I fear the same. Have not completely worked through the Deathwatch book, but I hope that's not the way GW will go.

I've got a decent bet riding on the Tau going grimdark in their own way.

Factors I think will play out are the Iron Hammer Campaign, Farsight's Dawn Blade, revelation about Ethereals and finally what the nature of Aun'va is.

One thing that has made me think grimdark is the Eldar and Tau relationship. I think the Dark Eldar trickery is going to play hell for Eldar/Tau diplomacy. For the most part, fluff has steered away fom major Eldar/Tau meetings, because in a galaxy of war and evil, Tau would realistically love Eldar and that can't happen.

So they set the stage for a disaster to occur...

Kroothawk wrote:

Kilkrazy wrote:I think the Tau will become more Grimdark because that is what the kiddies want.

It will be a mistake, because all the other factions are Grimdark factions and the background needs a bit of relief. Tau are popular with Tau players because they aren't Grimdark.

GW will screw it up and Grimdarkify Tau for the kiddies.

I fear the same. Have not completely worked through the Deathwatch book, but I hope that's not the way GW will go.

They're not full on 'Imperial Grimdark' but they're definitely becoming less cuddly and arguably 'Good Guys' in the vein of the Rebel Alliance from Star Wars.

They're becoming more 'shades of gray'. Which is beautifully acceptable, depending on how it's done.

Tau were never cuddly. They are only 'good' in the sense that when they encounter an alien race they give them the option 'surrender or die'. Everyone else in the galaxy just has 'die' as the only option.
I'd like to see some Ethereal abuse of power. I'd like to see some break-away factions. I'd like to see some more information about the other Castes. I'd like to see some very very subtle references to mind control, genocide, sterilisation, whatever. I'd like to see it all written by a good author, not Mat Ward.
I've written a little story piece which involves the Tau coming across a populated planet. The natives refuse Tau request for alliance. The tau amass a fleet to take them out, but when they get there, there is a Tyranid hive fleet in orbit. The tau just sit on their asses until the natives request an alliance... my, aren't we benevolent overlords?

Also, GW is (as always) horrendously bad at dates, Farsight being a prime example. He was already 3x the age of a normal Tau in the first codex. Then Shadowsun gets introduced in the second codex, a young new commander, who was a pupil under the same instructor as farsight....

Trasvi wrote:Tau were never cuddly. They are only 'good' in the sense that when they encounter an alien race they give them the option 'surrender or die'. Everyone else in the galaxy just has 'die' as the only option.

Please read any background text on Tau before posting such nonsense.

Kroothawk wrote:

Trasvi wrote:Tau were never cuddly. They are only 'good' in the sense that when they encounter an alien race they give them the option 'surrender or die'. Everyone else in the galaxy just has 'die' as the only option.

Please read any background text on Tau before posting such nonsense.

Well he is kinda right. The Tau give the option to join the Greater Good or go to war with the Tau Empire.

Yes but another major difference is "join" is rather a vague term for Tau. If you join the greater good you still retain control over your planet and can have limited contact with the Tau if desired. It's like the IoM's tithe system but there aren't any rules on how you rules your world. You could agree to joing the GG witout really changing much- it is a lot about showing the willingness to work together.

Grey Templar wrote:I could see it going 2 ways.


the Etherials could become extinct and the Tau would descend into barbarisim again: More Grimdark.

or,

a larger group of Tau joins Farsight and basically splits the Tau Empire in 2. one half follows the Etherials and the Greater good. the other follows Farsight and the crusade to save their species from Extinction.


the Farsight group becomes extremely Xenophobic. only tolerating other Tau. they advance their suit technology to include close combat advances and more powerful weapons.

the Etherial group focuses more on synergy between the various alien races in combat. they also advance their vehicle and FW weaponry.



a Tau force begins by choosing HQs from either the Farsight or the Etherial led forces. this determines your FoC options.


Farsight would have Fire Warriors as troops, but they would be limited in numbers. Farsight himself would allow Suits to be Troops.

he would also unlock CCW upgrades and also different types of suits. possably a heavier version of an XV8 that is more geared for close combat. a Terminator if you will.


the Etherial would unlock more disciplined fire warriors,

possably Kroot and Vespid HQs.

I personally think that this is a fantastic idea. It irks me that the only PW in the eintire TAu force is on a spec. character. I know that they are supposed to be an extremely shooty army but I think there should be some at least available to Shas'o/Shas'els or even Shas'vres providing that they are wearing Xv8 suits. Perhaps crate a crisis team option that automatically has iridium Armour and/or Shield Generators.


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I would also like to see Etherials getting some sort of boost to make them a fairly good choice

I think a good way to create diversity in terms of army building is making a Crisis Suit commander a choice. What I mean is that you can field your Commander on foot, in a battlesuit or in a broadside (or XV9 if they decide to add it). Whichever choice you make could provide a small boost for that unit in the army, it's just a small idea though and not really thought out.

I want Tau to remain different from the rest of the races in the galaxy by being less grimdark, but the ideas of having Farsight split off and turn more evil is a good one to create more variation. I would like more info on the other castes, and also (somehow) an increase to a Tau's lifespan, nothing ridiculous just higher, their accelerated evolution could be the cause of this.

On the topic of Tau encountering new planets, they send water caste envoys to negotiate with the race to try and persuade them to join the Greater Good, if not then Tau become a bit more hostile, but allying with the Tau doesn't mean swearing to the greater good and you still have a lot of freedom. Most Kroot don't believe in the Greater Good and are mercenaries to other races but allied with Tau out of convenience.

I feel there's a lot of fluff points which need to be cleared up in a new codex, let's hope we get a good writer.

Kanluwen wrote:

Kilkrazy wrote:I think the Tau will become more Grimdark because that is what the kiddies want.

Far from it. Take a look at the FFG supplement, "Mark of the Xenos" and the way the Tau are being showcased in there. They're far from being "grimdark".

The closest thing to "grimdark" I can find is the piece on "Commander Flamewing". When the last Ethereal on a planet he and his Hunter Cadre were holding died, his Fire Caste became more and more aggressive, and actually fought one another.
Only the fact that he mustered them for a death or glory assault upon the Tyranids kept them from killing each other.

That's a bit of 'grimdarking', but at the same time...it fits the nature of the Tau.

It will be a mistake, because all the other factions are Grimdark factions and the background needs a bit of relief. Tau are popular with Tau players because they aren't Grimdark.

Can you say that 100%? I've seen more people who like Tau for their technology and the fact that they're a force where specialists truly are specialists.

GW will screw it up and Grimdarkify Tau for the kiddies.

What exactly are we defining as 'grimdarkifying'?

The Tau becoming more 'wary' of the galaxy at large, and rather than being "Let's be friends!" become "Join us or suffer the consequences" is perfectly reasonable.

And for that matter, look at the depiction of the Tau in the Dark Eldar book. They're far from "grimdark" but are clearly starting to come to grips with a galaxy at war.

The thing is it's subtely grimdark they say "Let's be friends!" but if you say no they kill you or resort to communistic brainwashing

Kroothawk wrote:

Trasvi wrote:Tau were never cuddly. They are only 'good' in the sense that when they encounter an alien race they give them the option 'surrender or die'. Everyone else in the galaxy just has 'die' as the only option.

Please read any background text on Tau before posting such nonsense.

There are many quotes in the Tau Codices which amount to 'you are either with us, or against us'.

There is a quote in the 3rd ed codex from a message drone which says something along the lines of 'When you encounter our ships, welcome us as friends..... the fire caste defeat our enemies... it would be wise to choose to join the Tau Empire'

In the 4th ed codex: "It saddens me greatly that we must take arms against the peoples of the galaxy. By their deaths, they deny themselves the liberation that is only to be found in total surrender to the Greater Good." I might be cynical, and perceiving things which are not there, but I get the message "we only kill people who don't surrender to the Greater Good"

Nearly every other quote I can find is along the lines of "Victory through Unity" and the message that "joining with us is unity, and disunity is not acceptable".... but maybe I'm just being overly cynical .

Don't continue with that argument, this is not the place.

Yes they do attack people who refuse the greater good but the point is they still give you a chance to join. Every other faction will just kill you. Another major point is that joining the greater good doesn't force you to make any large changes. All you to do is contribute something (not neccessarily anything large) you still retain control of your planet. All imperial planets already give tithes this wouldn't change. The only change is that planets inhabitants gain control of the planet instead of the IoM.

Oh are we still doing this? Go and make another thread if it's that big an issue, but this isn't the place.

I don't think they should change the basic Firewarrior or vehicle look too much, but maybe streamline the battlesuits and give them a bit more variety.

Just a few pointers on Tau,

They don't use "mind control". The Ethereals use pheromones from their "crystal organs" located in their heads. Thus any pheromone based race is easily overcome by the Greater Good. Vespid are an insectial race and surely use pheromones but, they have a social order. The tau give the leaders of Vespid helms that will allow the Tau to command them and the other Vespid warriors as well. This would most likely mean that if the Tau ever did fall to Chaos (unlikely as they "are barely visible in the warp"), they would fall to Slaanesh.

As for the "Grimdark" of Tau...

I'm not sure if this counts as a spoiler but...



The Tau are a pet project of the Eldar in an attempt to recreate the human race, because both Humanity and themselves had failed to live up to the Ancient Ones grand plans for the destruction of Chaos.

It's not a spoiler because it isn't fact, it's speculation.

Yeah I don't think the link between eladr and Tau is ever confirmed, and neither is the Vespid command helms. They are just suggestions. As for the pheromones some sources say they are completely true others say they aren't. Unfrotunately Tau fluff is full of contradictions.

I think it is entirely up to how you paint them and want your kadre to feel, If i played a tau army I would make my own commander a renegade similar to farsight and I would show this in the paint job by having gritty battle damaged armor as my kadre doesn't have anywhere to turn to for replenishment and re-enforcement.

Well the tau seem to be trending to getting darker. I hope they don't go to far though. If they ever lose the water caste, I won't enjoy them even half as much.

Really they also need to handle the darker aspect better. They tried to make them into space communist and space fascist and it just fits so poorly that a lot of people don't buy it as cannon. I think they might work better as space "Britain in the colonial phase".

Technologically, lets see some new stuff. No warp tech, but some new things to remind us that the tau actually advance.

They also need an excuse to show up in more places. All the other races are spread out, but the tau are stuck in one tiny box. That makes finding ways to include them hard. Maybe they tau could have something like sleeper teams that act a little like space hulks.

They shouldn't just get IoM style warp travel, but maybe they can start building giant catapult relays. (Like the web way only with ships.)

Good ideas, Britain in the colonial Phase is much better fit than both Space Communists and Grimarkyness.
No Warp Tech, that needs to be key part about them, but certainly something that improves their ability to zim around their little pocket.

Maybe they should add something like recon teams, they go out to gather information in secret, hitching a ride on Imperial vessels.

It is after all a "grim darkness of the far future".
Tau should be a little grimdark after all. No race is perfect and no race will just stand and let other conquer and prosper.
If Matt Ward is doing their next codex, you can expect grimdark Tau - like the Khornite knights.

Brother Coa wrote:It is after all a "grim darkness of the far future".
Tau should be a little grimdark after all. No race is perfect and no race will just stand and let other conquer and prosper.
If Matt Ward is doing their next codex, you can expect grimdark Tau - like the Khornite knights.

But whether that grimdark affects their aesthetics is a different thing.
Humanity is under siege in dozens of key locations and millions die each day. That is gonna have an effect on a society. The Tau haven't experienced this kind of darkness yet, and even the experiences they have had aren't enough to shake their belief in efficiency over ceremony.

Seriously, I don't get where everyone is getting that Farsight is "evil". Whilst Farsight may or may not be under the influence of Chaos, this much is speculation, he has simply had his eyes opened to the unwillingness of the rest of the Galaxy to bend to the Greater Good.

From Farsight's entry in the Tau Empire dex:

"Each must find their own way. If those in our heartland had witnessed the savageries of the void as have we they would know this. The hand of each of the great starfarers is turned against the other; none will join their strength together just to see their ancient enemies prosper. Neither should we.

Vaktathi has it right. Farsight is (whilst a very extreme example) ahead of the curve, he represents the next logical step for the Tau and their ideology. They will continue to subjagate the races of the galaxy and browbeat them in a "it's for your own good" way. Although Farsight takes this too far (there were rumours floating around of him having some very... racist views when it came to the allied races, hence why he can't have them in his armies), the Tau will have to accept the rest of the Galaxy is not prepared to buddy up with them and will have to convince them with military superiority.

Thing is, Farsight is a hero to the people, but a rebel to the High Command. They know he is still needed and remain in intermittent contact with the enclaves (read the "War of Dakka" story in the Ork codex). He is far from "evil" in any sense in 40k (ATM )

Grimtuff wrote:Although Farsight takes this too far (there were rumours floating around of him having some very... racist views when it came to the allied races, hence why he can't have them in his armies)

Actually, the reason they always talked about it was that since he's not part of the Tau's "Greater Good" he's unable to get access to the alien allies and newer tech due to the fact that he "cut communication with the Tau as a whole".

Brother Coa wrote:It is after all a "grim darkness of the far future".
Tau should be a little grimdark after all. No race is perfect and no race will just stand and let other conquer and prosper.
If Matt Ward is doing their next codex, you can expect grimdark Tau - like the Khornite knights.

They don't necessarily have to be Grimadark, the whole point of the armies existence is to be a non-grimdark force.
What's the Khornite Knights?

Kanluwen wrote:

Grimtuff wrote:Although Farsight takes this too far (there were rumours floating around of him having some very... racist views when it came to the allied races, hence why he can't have them in his armies)

Actually, the reason they always talked about it was that since he's not part of the Tau's "Greater Good" he's unable to get access to the alien allies and newer tech due to the fact that he "cut communication with the Tau as a whole".

Which goes directly against the info given about the War of Dakka in the Ork dex, which is set in 815.M41, Farsight split from the Empire in 760.M41. The Tau High Command sent in reinforcements to evacuate him and his armies from the warzone.

iproxtaco wrote:

Brother Coa wrote:It is after all a "grim darkness of the far future".
Tau should be a little grimdark after all. No race is perfect and no race will just stand and let other conquer and prosper.
If Matt Ward is doing their next codex, you can expect grimdark Tau - like the Khornite knights.

They don't necessarily have to be Grimadark, the whole point of the armies existence is to be a non-grimdark force.
What's the Khornite Knights?

He was making a joke about Mat Ward being a bad codex writer...
Lets just drop it now. Too many threads have been ruined by someone raising that and this thread is a good one.

iproxtaco wrote:

Brother Coa wrote:It is after all a "grim darkness of the far future".
Tau should be a little grimdark after all. No race is perfect and no race will just stand and let other conquer and prosper.
If Matt Ward is doing their next codex, you can expect grimdark Tau - like the Khornite knights.

They don't necessarily have to be Grimadark, the whole point of the armies existence is to be a non-grimdark force.
What's the Khornite Knights?

In their naiviety they are make the everything else more grimdark. I still maintain my view that they are all brainwashed communists, but even if their not the fact that the only good race in the galaxy is in the worst position. The galaxy sees this new upstart that wants to be nice to people and wants to nom them

purplefood wrote:

iproxtaco wrote:

Brother Coa wrote:It is after all a "grim darkness of the far future".
Tau should be a little grimdark after all. No race is perfect and no race will just stand and let other conquer and prosper.
If Matt Ward is doing their next codex, you can expect grimdark Tau - like the Khornite knights.

They don't necessarily have to be Grimadark, the whole point of the armies existence is to be a non-grimdark force.
What's the Khornite Knights?

He was making a joke about Mat Ward being a bad codex writer...
Lets just drop it now. Too many threads have been ruined by someone raising that and this thread is a good one.

I see, I just don't know of anything in any of his codices which mentions Khornite Knights but I agree, lets not drag out that pointless conversation again.

iproxtaco wrote:

Brother Coa wrote:It is after all a "grim darkness of the far future".
Tau should be a little grimdark after all. No race is perfect and no race will just stand and let other conquer and prosper.
If Matt Ward is doing their next codex, you can expect grimdark Tau - like the Khornite knights.

They don't necessarily have to be Grimadark, the whole point of the armies existence is to be a non-grimdark force.
What's the Khornite Knights?

I know that, but who knows. Maybe they will, maybe they will stay the same. But I wouldn't be suprised if the ymake a Tau little darken then now, almost every army has been made.
As for Khornite Knights: http://1d4chan.org/wiki/Khornate_Knights. Matt Ward at work, next are Black Templars, then Tau or Necrons.
Emperor show mercy on them...


Automatically Appended Next Post:

purplefood wrote:
He was making a joke about Mat Ward being a bad codex writer...
Lets just drop it now. Too many threads have been ruined by someone raising that and this thread is a good one.

You are right, I will drop it from here.
I am still staying with my statement, Tau should be more darker in the new codex.

Grimtuff wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:

Grimtuff wrote:Although Farsight takes this too far (there were rumours floating around of him having some very... racist views when it came to the allied races, hence why he can't have them in his armies)

Actually, the reason they always talked about it was that since he's not part of the Tau's "Greater Good" he's unable to get access to the alien allies and newer tech due to the fact that he "cut communication with the Tau as a whole".

Which goes directly against the info given about the War of Dakka in the Ork dex, which is set in 815.M41, Farsight split from the Empire in 760.M41. The Tau High Command sent in reinforcements to evacuate him and his armies from the warzone.

815.M41 is the 'Descent of Grog'. It's for a very particular incident, and is in the Planetstrike book.

We don't know how long the 'War of Dakka' went on. We also do not know if that particular planet was part of the Farsight Enclaves(planet was Atari Vo).

P44 of the Tau Empire book, by the by supports my point.

Tau Empire wrote:This region has long been forbidden to the Tau, and when contact was severed between Farsight and the Tau homeworlds, it could mean only one thing. But to countenance the notion that Farsight has set up his own colonies is to accept that he has turned his back on the empire and is fighting for personal gain rather than the Greater Good.

There's also mention in there that he had an entire expedition at his disposal.

Where the idea falls apart is that the second part, 'Grog's Revenge' and 'The Kunnin' Plan' deal with things that were after the original invasion of the Tau Empire's Sept Worlds and focus solely on the invasion of the Farsight Enclaves.

Plus it uses a customarily, as we always get with Tau information, vague bit of "Tau High Command". Could it have been the Tau Empire proper? Sure.

But you're neglecting the fact that the Farsight Enclaves are heavily militarized, with production capabilities to match. A Manta Missile Destroyer is something within the realm of them building or still having from the original expedition.

Of course, my point is supposition--but with the Tau we have absolute gak to go on in regards to their culture outside of the Greater Good.

That's a link to 1d4chan, I already know that it's going to be a bunch of bull. Stop now though, this thread is about Tau, not the mis-conceptions people pick up due to Hyperbole and the idiotic idea that 1d4chan is a basis of clear opinion.

I would actually be surprised if they darkened them down, it's be a contradiction to the original designers notes, despite the fact that it would be a logical step in their background.

Kanluwen wrote:

Grimtuff wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:

Grimtuff wrote:Although Farsight takes this too far (there were rumours floating around of him having some very... racist views when it came to the allied races, hence why he can't have them in his armies)

Actually, the reason they always talked about it was that since he's not part of the Tau's "Greater Good" he's unable to get access to the alien allies and newer tech due to the fact that he "cut communication with the Tau as a whole".

Which goes directly against the info given about the War of Dakka in the Ork dex, which is set in 815.M41, Farsight split from the Empire in 760.M41. The Tau High Command sent in reinforcements to evacuate him and his armies from the warzone.

815.M41 is the 'Descent of Grog'. It's for a very particular incident, and is in the Planetstrike book.

We don't know how long the 'War of Dakka' went on. We also do not know if that particular planet was part of the Farsight Enclaves(planet was Atari Vo).

P44 of the Tau Empire book, by the by supports my point.

Tau Empire wrote:This region has long been forbidden to the Tau, and when contact was severed between Farsight and the Tau homeworlds, it could mean only one thing. But to countenance the notion that Farsight has set up his own colonies is to accept that he has turned his back on the empire and is fighting for personal gain rather than the Greater Good.

There's also mention in there that he had an entire expedition at his disposal.

Where the idea falls apart is that the second part, 'Grog's Revenge' and 'The Kunnin' Plan' deal with things that were after the original invasion of the Tau Empire's Sept Worlds and focus solely on the invasion of the Farsight Enclaves.

Plus it uses a customarily, as we always get with Tau information, vague bit of "Tau High Command". Could it have been the Tau Empire proper? Sure.

But you're neglecting the fact that the Farsight Enclaves are heavily militarized, with production capabilities to match. A Manta Missile Destroyer is something within the realm of them building or still having from the original expedition.

Of course, my point is supposition--but with the Tau we have absolute gak to go on in regards to their culture outside of the Greater Good.

And that is what makes Farsight so good compared to say, Draigo. We know next to nothing about him and his associates, which is what make him so compelling. I was under the impression that Farsight has no contact with the Empire until reading the War of Dakka story, which throws a bits of a spanner in the works WRT their established background.

Kelly seems to do it a lot, even within his own codexes, check out the stuff for Lady Malys. Either there's some timey-wimey stuff going on in the Webway or she's older than Kelly says she is. She is alive when Vect comes to power in M35, yet is described as being "Less than 1000 years old".

Nicholas wrote:

iproxtaco wrote:

Brother Coa wrote:It is after all a "grim darkness of the far future".
Tau should be a little grimdark after all. No race is perfect and no race will just stand and let other conquer and prosper.
If Matt Ward is doing their next codex, you can expect grimdark Tau - like the Khornite knights.

They don't necessarily have to be Grimadark, the whole point of the armies existence is to be a non-grimdark force.
What's the Khornite Knights?

In their naiviety they are make the everything else more grimdark. I still maintain my view that they are all brainwashed communists, but even if their not the fact that the only good race in the galaxy is in the worst position. The galaxy sees this new upstart that wants to be nice to people and wants to nom them

That's a fairly good description of the role of the tau. (The first part anyway.) They are the foil. They are not very dark and that makes everyone else look darker. That's also why they have to avoid making the tau too dark.

Grimtuff wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:

Grimtuff wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:

Grimtuff wrote:Although Farsight takes this too far (there were rumours floating around of him having some very... racist views when it came to the allied races, hence why he can't have them in his armies)

Actually, the reason they always talked about it was that since he's not part of the Tau's "Greater Good" he's unable to get access to the alien allies and newer tech due to the fact that he "cut communication with the Tau as a whole".

Which goes directly against the info given about the War of Dakka in the Ork dex, which is set in 815.M41, Farsight split from the Empire in 760.M41. The Tau High Command sent in reinforcements to evacuate him and his armies from the warzone.

815.M41 is the 'Descent of Grog'. It's for a very particular incident, and is in the Planetstrike book.

We don't know how long the 'War of Dakka' went on. We also do not know if that particular planet was part of the Farsight Enclaves(planet was Atari Vo).

P44 of the Tau Empire book, by the by supports my point.

Tau Empire wrote:This region has long been forbidden to the Tau, and when contact was severed between Farsight and the Tau homeworlds, it could mean only one thing. But to countenance the notion that Farsight has set up his own colonies is to accept that he has turned his back on the empire and is fighting for personal gain rather than the Greater Good.

There's also mention in there that he had an entire expedition at his disposal.

Where the idea falls apart is that the second part, 'Grog's Revenge' and 'The Kunnin' Plan' deal with things that were after the original invasion of the Tau Empire's Sept Worlds and focus solely on the invasion of the Farsight Enclaves.

Plus it uses a customarily, as we always get with Tau information, vague bit of "Tau High Command". Could it have been the Tau Empire proper? Sure.

But you're neglecting the fact that the Farsight Enclaves are heavily militarized, with production capabilities to match. A Manta Missile Destroyer is something within the realm of them building or still having from the original expedition.

Of course, my point is supposition--but with the Tau we have absolute gak to go on in regards to their culture outside of the Greater Good.

And that is what makes Farsight so good compared to say, Draigo. We know next to nothing about him and his associates, which is what make him so compelling. I was under the impression that Farsight has no contact with the Empire until reading the War of Dakka story, which throws a bits of a spanner in the works WRT their established background.

Kelly seems to do it a lot, even within his own codexes, check out the stuff for Lady Malys. Either there's some timey-wimey stuff going on in the Webway or she's older than Kelly says she is. She is alive when Vect comes to power in M35, yet is described as being "Less than 1000 years old".

time flows differently in the Webway.

and that could be in Eldar years, who knows how long their home planets orbit was.

i think it would be hard to grimdark the Tau really. People seem to lack an understanding that the Tau Empire is founded on the philosophy of utilitarianism, not communism. This fundamentally prevents them from being bad guys.

Nobody knows for sure what the Farsight enclave is up to at this point and may be the best place to darken things up, possibly by adding a sense of bigotry to the tau who broke away.

As for personal speculation I think the Dawn Blade is a C'Tan phase blade and could result in the farsight enclave comming under C'Tan influence. That could make things very interesting.

mwbeardpride wrote:i think it would be hard to grimdark the Tau really. People seem to lack an understanding that the Tau Empire is founded on the philosophy of utilitarianism, not communism. This fundamentally prevents them from being bad guys.

Nobody knows for sure what the Farsight enclave is up to at this point and may be the best place to darken things up, possibly by adding a sense of bigotry to the tau who broke away.

As for personal speculation I think the Dawn Blade is a C'Tan phase blade and could result in the farsight enclave comming under C'Tan influence. That could make things very interesting.

C'tan Phase Blade? That sort of plot device would be right up there with Blood Angels/Necrons alleigances and SOB's being slaughtered by Grey Knights. So yeah, if He Who Must Not Be Named is writing Tau then prepare for dissapointment.

I can see some Craftworld Eldar - Tau relationships though. Can anyone find that quote by Eldrad Ulthran? Apparently he thinks Tau are going to take the place of the Eldar.

And as much as I hate to say it; if GW goes the same route as they will with Necrons (see rumors) then Farsight won't make even a brief appearance in the codex. How come none of you thought of that

Good thing that Phil Kelly and Robin Cruddace show some respect for current background, even when changing it. So we have a 66% chance that the background will nor be totally screwed.

Kroothawk wrote:Good thing that Phil Kelly and Robin Cruddace show some respect for current background, even when changing it. So we have a 66% chance that the background will nor be totally screwed.

Do they? Cruddace ripped the entire Hive War background a new one just to ram his "brilliant" new "Swarmy" invention into the book while Kelly turned Blood Claws into womanizing GTA-style Thunderhawk-nappers before mounting the rest of the Wolves on Thundersquirrels to fight submarine wars. And to top it off, he turned the menace that were the Dark Eldar into pitful Twilight-Emo's suddenly "evil" only to staunch their leaky souls. If either of those two have any inkling of "respect" (or even knowledge) for the background, they've failed to show it so far.

TEMPERUS MAXIMUS wrote:

mwbeardpride wrote:i think it would be hard to grimdark the Tau really. People seem to lack an understanding that the Tau Empire is founded on the philosophy of utilitarianism, not communism. This fundamentally prevents them from being bad guys.

Nobody knows for sure what the Farsight enclave is up to at this point and may be the best place to darken things up, possibly by adding a sense of bigotry to the tau who broke away.

As for personal speculation I think the Dawn Blade is a C'Tan phase blade and could result in the farsight enclave comming under C'Tan influence. That could make things very interesting.

C'tan Phase Blade? That sort of plot device would be right up there with Blood Angels/Necrons alleigances and SOB's being slaughtered by Grey Knights. So yeah, if He Who Must Not Be Named is writing Tau then prepare for dissapointment.

I can see some Craftworld Eldar - Tau relationships though. Can anyone find that quote by Eldrad Ulthran? Apparently he thinks Tau are going to take the place of the Eldar.

And as much as I hate to say it; if GW goes the same route as they will with Necrons (see rumors) then Farsight won't make even a brief appearance in the codex. How come none of you thought of that

Can you please explain how a a blade found in pre human ruins on an artifact wield that is described to cut though most enemies and vehicles with ease and flickers with an unknown power being a C'Tan phase weapon is compareable to either of the examples of Matt Ward's creation?

Also I see gw giving more individuality to the necrons from the rumors. So if the tau go the way of the necrons and other 5th edition dexs we should see an increased amount of ics.

I persoanly agree with you about the Dawn Blade. If it originates from any of the known races it makes most sense for it to be necrons. Of course it could be something we have never seen yet.

4M2A wrote:I persoanly agree with you about the Dawn Blade. If it originates from any of the known races it makes most sense for it to be necrons. Of course it could be something we have never seen yet.

Other Necron of known prehuman races we have Eldar, and Slann. It doesn't look Eldar, kinda looks Necronish and I dont belive there is a point of reference for the Slann stuff in 40k just the fantasy stuff. Them pulling something new and dark out of nowhere or never explaining it wouldn't be to unexpected.

Personally I think Tau with a C'Tan influence could be very cool and push their technology even farther. Look what it did for the Ad Mech.

The look of the Tau is pretty much the only thing that GW has gotten right for the army. I don't foresee that changing at all when their new Codex arrives.

Kilkrazy wrote:I think the Tau will become more Grimdark because that is what the kiddies want.

It will be a mistake, because all the other factions are Grimdark factions and the background needs a bit of relief. Tau are popular with Tau players because they aren't Grimdark.

GW will screw it up and Grimdarkify Tau for the kiddies.

Yeah, that is the reason I started collecting Tau. I think their non-grimdarkness is what defines them, and make a nice contrast to the setting.
I really hope they dont turn the Tau into Imperium-2-without-awesome-space-marines

Grimdark, not grimdark... don't really care, I just hope the Crisis Suits get a redesign so they don't look like fridges with legs anymore.

Kilkrazy wrote:I think the Tau will become more Grimdark because that is what the kiddies want.

It will be a mistake, because all the other factions are Grimdark factions and the background needs a bit of relief. Tau are popular with Tau players because they aren't Grimdark.

GW will screw it up and Grimdarkify Tau for the kiddies.

Correct on all levels, i fear

Maybe they can have something new like these?

They don't need a new look, just a different artist.

mega_bassist wrote:I think they'll stay more or less the same...the only problem I see them having is the Empire starting another Expansion and trying to stay connected without FTL travel...I can see the Empire failing w/o highspeed transport and it getting too large

Uh, the Tau do have FTL travel. It is just not as fast, because IIRC they sort of "bounce" their ships off of the warp instead of traveling within it.

they have FTL in the form of Warp Hopping.


its about 10 times slower then true Warp jumping.

a Tau would be lucky to live to see more then 5 or 6 jumps due to their short lives.

GalacticDefender wrote:

mega_bassist wrote:I think they'll stay more or less the same...the only problem I see them having is the Empire starting another Expansion and trying to stay connected without FTL travel...I can see the Empire failing w/o highspeed transport and it getting too large

Uh, the Tau do have FTL travel. It is just not as fast, because IIRC they sort of "bounce" their ships off of the warp instead of traveling within it.

Yes, I know about that. I meant something in comparison to what the IoM and Eldar use.

IIRC, its about 5x slower than Imperium, with the added bonuses of: A) not actually being in the warp and thus not vulnerable to Chaos, B) No arriving at your destination before you left, or a hundred years after you were supposed to arrive, and C) You don't have to sacrifice thousands of psykers to keep your space lighthouse working.

I'm sure that GW will let one of their horrible rules-writers do an even worse job at writing stories.. Would like to see some *real authors* writing the books.

It's slower, and has no where near the distance, making a larger interstellar empire nigh impossible to maintain.

Maybe GW could write in a galaxy hopping FTL drive for the next codex. That would be cool. Turn the Tau into the equivalent of pop-up ads on the Internet. Just when you least expect it, a Water Caste diplomat pops up to talk about how you could improve your lifestyle with the Greater Good.

My lord, after reading this thread, I think I will go sell my army on eBay. It seems there is no hope for the Tau.

Or preferably, I install a Deathwatch security center, and kill them before the get a chance to infect my citizens, sorry files.

I think they need to begin developing true FTL travel like the necrons. Make it completely warp free- it fits the Tau ideas on using safe technology. Keep it in the development stage or it will make them appear far to powerful.

4M2A wrote:I think they need to begin developing true FTL travel like the necrons. Make it completely warp free- it fits the Tau ideas on using safe technology. Keep it in the development stage or it will make them appear far to powerful.

Refining their current ftl drive is imo sufficient, unless GW plans to let them take over an entire Segmentum

Love the tau, but I'm not expecting much with the new codex, just battlesuits more in line with the current FW ones that are incredibly popular, and updated rules. Possibly some new characters, but other than that i don't think they will change much fluff-wise. They suit being a fledgling race, otherwise (as mentioned above) they would be far too powerful, and they suit the fragility and experimentation of a young race imo!