With coming of their new codex, it seems that Grey Knights, due to their secretive nature, executing all their allies after the fighting. Space Marines, due to the great expense it takes to create them, are spared and only get a mind-wipe. If they resist like the Space Wolves however, they too are executed.

I have a few questions to ask concerning this.

Are all Guardsmen of the participating regiment executed from the bottom of the command chain to the top? Or is it that only the ones that fought get executed?

Also, where do Inquisitors stand in all this? One would think by virtue of their office, particularly Ordo Malleus Inquisitors, that they would be spared but perhaps not?

No information specifically on the officers, just that all guardsmen who bear witness are culled, those of heroic deeds in battle will undergo a high mortality mind-wipe. I would assume that officers are not exempt from this, although they may automatically go through the mind-wipe.

Inquisitors are exempt, they're allowed to have knowledge, although low ranking Inquisitors are not told, but I would also assume that they wouldn't be killed for knowledge that they may have to be told in the future, and that would have no adverse affect on their ability to do their job.

This is a stupid bit of fluff from RT that needs to die ... again.

What is "RT"? This has been cannon since the previous Daemonhunters Codex, it's not new to the controversial Mat Ward edition.

iproxtaco wrote:What is "RT"? This has been cannon since the previous Daemonhunters Codex, it's not new to the controversial Mat Ward edition.

Rogue Trader.
@OP The Space Wolves were not mind wiped... not sure where you got that from.

It has that when you scroll over, but I didn't think it was what he was talking about.

RT = Rogue Trader era.

Probably not but that's the only meaning for it in this context that i know of.

Fair enough, my suspicious mind jumped at you.

acekevin8412 wrote:With coming of their new codex, it seems that Grey Knights, due to their secretive nature, executing all their allies after the fighting. Space Marines, due to the great expense it takes to create them, are spared and only get a mind-wipe. If they resist like the Space Wolves however, they too are executed.

Is there a story with the Space Wolves being exectued for refusing a mind wipe?

What happens if a large group of space marines refuses a mind wipe?

Space Wolves were horrified at the prospect, so resisted. They, as far as I know, haven't been mind-wiped yet, or executed.
They're the only example I can think of, but the Grey Knights codex seems to imply that Space Marines could be executed, although they seem to just accept their fate as a duty to humanity.

acekevin8412 wrote:With coming of their new codex, it seems that Grey Knights, due to their secretive nature, executing all their allies after the fighting. Space Marines, due to the great expense it takes to create them, are spared and only get a mind-wipe. If they resist like the Space Wolves however, they too are executed.

I have a few questions to ask concerning this.

Are all Guardsmen of the participating regiment executed from the bottom of the command chain to the top? Or is it that only the ones that fought get executed?

All! Kill them all!

Also, where do Inquisitors stand in all this? One would think by virtue of their office, particularly Ordo Malleus Inquisitors, that they would be spared but perhaps not?

Of course. They're in charge of the GKs.

Okay, every day I like the GKs a bit less. Seriously, they're NOT well intended extremists. They're just extremists. Kinda like... Okay, I don't know who to compare them to. If they didn't go areound killing everyone, they'd be a bit like the MiB. Bit a bit more zealous.

Okay now, the Grey Knights are kept secret for a reason. I don't know this reason. Someone does. Who does it? Any of you?

I bought a bunch GKs to fight alongside my Imperial Guardsmen... And now I've put my GK models in a prison until my officers can give me their verdict.

I'm not crazy.

Nice. I'll buy a bunch of GK heads just to be used as trophies by my orks xD

Seriously, the Grey Knights and Inquisition are meant to be the Men in Black of the Imperium. Stop thinking their goody two-shoes Mary Sues and get over it. They leave no witnesses. It happens in the real world too, there are secret squirrel spec ops units out there that do this kind of thing, yes even to their own side. its not something that they enjoy doing, its not something you hear a lot about (for obvious reasons) but it happens.

But silver and red armor is my weakness. ;_;

Grey Knights over time have become more and more I dunno, less shining beacon of the Emperors ideals and more cloak and dagger operatives. I'm not a great lover of the new Grey Knights fluff, but there are other threads going into that.

Here's some pieces of background that might answer your question.

The section from Codex Imperialis on the First Armageddon war goes like this

Instead, the Administratum and the Inquisition set in motion a plan that would allow the planet’s industrial capacity to recover, without the truth of the conflict becoming known. Every man, woman and child who had fought against Angron’s horde was rounded up by troops drafted in from other warzones, sterilised and relocated to enormous forced-labour camps situated far to the south of Armageddon Secundus. Millions were forced to live out the remainder of their lives in slavery, producing the raw materials with which the world they had given everything to defend would be rebuilt.

With the Hive cities all but empty, and only the highest and mightiest exempted from the cull, the Administratum relocated millions of workers from far-away sectors to Armageddon to replace those who had looked upon the face of Chaos and lived.

Only one man dared protest against this ultimate sanction, this most craven of betrayals. Logan Grimnar, Great Wolf of the Space Wolf Chapter made his opposition plain, and, privately, many agreed with him.
Though he could not sway the faceless adepts of the Administratum, he has never forgiven them, nor has he ever forgotten the sacrifice of those who fought by his side during the darkest days of the First War for Armageddon.

And from the Apocalypse datasheet on the Grey Knights Redeemer Force

But that is not the end of the Ordo Malleus's duties. Once the Daemonic taint has been cleansed, the Grey Knights and their Inquisitorial comrades will ecterminate or mind - wipe those mortal men that have fought beside them. No one must be allowed to witness the taint of Chaos in its most purified form and live, for once the seed of corruption is planted it is virtually impossible to remove it. Such is the terrible truth of the Redeemer force, for the only true redemption they offer is death.

Normal humans are likely to either be killed or have their minds scrubbed. Astartes I guess would be exempt from this. Possibly because they might need to fight the forces of Chaos again?

Makes me wonder what would happen to Cadians if the Grey Knights got involved.

Wait a second ... I thought allies like Imperial Guardsmen are killed after the battle because they fought demons and their minds are not strong enough to cope with such a thing afterwards anyway. But Space Marines killing Imperial Guardsmen because they want to stay secret? I do not think so ...

Yea, if any contact with daemons would end up with a mindwipe, slavery or death, what about the cadians, thier world is situated right on the doorstep of the EoT. The guardsmen regiments would also suffer everytime chaos launches an offensive.

The only reason I can conceive of is that CREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEED! had a hand in determining the fates of those who have fought daemons during the Black Crusades.

The regular humans are killed because the Imperium is paranoid that if people know about Chaos, some of them will start worshipping it.

And given human nature, there's a certain amount of truth to this. Some people really are that stupid (frequently, there's a lot of willful blindness involved, though not always). I don't agree with this particular aspect of the Grey Knight fluff, but on the other hand I do recognize that there's a definite justification for it.


I'd also like to see something done in the future with Logan Grimnar's hatred of the Grey Knights. But unfortunately, GW will almost certainly just leave things as they are.

Thanks for all the responses.

Here is my response to your responses.

I have no problem with and accept the notion of executing all witnesses to daemonic taint. My original question was what constituted a "witness." Is the Lord General Militant of the Sector responding to daemon reports from his troops scrubbed, or are only those that actually participate executed.

Finally, I believe they keep the situation between Grimnar and the GK ambiguous to give justification for SMvGK matches, the same reason the had the whole Bloodtide fluff for SoBvGK.

acekevin8412 wrote:
I have no problem with and accept the notion of executing all witnesses to daemonic taint. My original question was what constituted a "witness." Is the Lord General Militant of the Sector responding to daemon reports from his troops scrubbed, or are only those that actually participate executed.

And I did give you this

and only the highest and mightiest exempted from the cull, the Administratum relocated millions of workers from far-away sectors to Armageddon to replace those who had looked upon the face of Chaos and lived.

A Lord General Militant of the Sector would be classed as highest and mightiest.

You're looking at your lowly Guardsman and regular member of the population, unless you have enough credits to buy your forgetfulness. Remembering something like a full scale daemonic incursion might be something you would possibly like to forget anyway.

I think the Mind Wiped Space Marines fluff has been dropped.

the only Mind Wiping done currently is of GK initiates to ensure they don't retain any of their former life.




I don't think the Cadians come into contact with actual deamons alot. its mostly Failbaddon's CSMs.

the Cadians also recieve training due to their proximity to the EoT. Kasrikin are the equivilant of ISTs(any many ISTs are Kasrikin)

I don't think that there any hard and fast rules for this kind of this, as with most things in the Imperium it is very grey. Probably a grim-dark grey.

Take a Crusade Army for example, reinvading worlds held by Chaos, huge swaths will be exposed to Demonic forces at some point but would a Warmaster allow the execution of a substantial proportion of his forces; almost definitely not. A close eye from the commissariat/inquisition would be enough; the human mind would soon forget/block the incidence and those that talk/obsess on it would be dealt with. Chaos is no secret here there is little silence; it is just a job of containing any taint.

The fact they would have the honour of forming the Forlorn Hope at the next possible opportunity would speed the ultimate closure on to subject in a productive way.

The GKs appearing amidst of the otherwise loyal populace of Imperial World Random VII would be different. The people of Random VII are not aware of the insidiousness of Chaos just broadly aware of their duty to oppose and fear it (as rightly taught by the Ecclesiarchy), so the super secret super soldiers of the GKs and the true nature of Chaos must be contained - Cleanse the tainted and loyal alike to the extent required to contain that knowledge.

I bought their codex with the intent to start an army. read through the fluff and shelved that idea. I like the part in the current GK codex where they justify their use of "sorcery" simply because they don't have to answer to anyone. Blood sacrificing Sisters of Battle to use innocent blood to anoint their armor. blah blah blah, boring.

I now taunt those GK players I play against, calling them spawn of the warp, chaos infected. When others (those at the store who watch) ask what armies we are playing, I am sure to point out that I am playing against chaos GK

I am not a fan of this bit of fluff

This fluff makes little sense when you think about it. Grey Knights kill people who come into contact with and are aware of deamons. But the danger of warp travel, and the risks of the denziens that dwell within it, is common knowledge, especially throughout the navy.
And psykers often end up being possessed, that's why commissars stand ready to execute the battlefield psykers.

The risks and nature of the warp are least are common knowledge, if not the existence of the Dark Gods.

There is very little fluff anywhere that makes sense if you look at it from a logical POV.

It's written to make Grimdark sense.

What I mean is, this particular doctrine, especially the reasons behind it, contradicts the rest of 40k sources.

If the GK were doing to prevent some sort oftain that deamons invariably pass on that would make more sense, but to kill witnesses becuase of the knowledge of the existence of deamons seems silly, especiall when that knowledge is actually pretty common.

Emperors Faithful wrote:What I mean is, this particular doctrine, especially the reasons behind it, contradicts the rest of 40k sources.

If the GK were doing to prevent some sort oftain that deamons invariably pass on that would make more sense, but to kill witnesses becuase of the knowledge of the existence of deamons seems silly, especiall when that knowledge is actually pretty common.

The knowledge of the Daemon is not a common thing amongst the Guard or normal population of the Imperium.

Pilau Rice wrote:

Emperors Faithful wrote:What I mean is, this particular doctrine, especially the reasons behind it, contradicts the rest of 40k sources.

If the GK were doing to prevent some sort oftain that deamons invariably pass on that would make more sense, but to kill witnesses becuase of the knowledge of the existence of deamons seems silly, especiall when that knowledge is actually pretty common.

The knowledge of the Daemon is not a common thing amongst the Guard or normal population of the Imperium.

You mean the knowledge of the Daemon? Or the knowledge of the Dark Gods and their seperate respective forces?

Becuase the Navy, and indeed all Imperium Space-spanning vessels (including traders) are more than aware of the risks of warp travel, which includes deamonic possession. In fact in Enforcer, ships have policy regarding that, deamonhosts are treated as boarders and passengers are expected to assist in their repulsion. The ship was then "purified" by the Ecclesiarchy, but this didn't involve killing off witnesses. People don't talk about these things lightly, but they aren't executed for simply knowing about it.

acekevin8412 wrote:With coming of their new codex, it seems that Grey Knights, due to their secretive nature, executing all their allies after the fighting. Space Marines, due to the great expense it takes to create them, are spared and only get a mind-wipe. If they resist like the Space Wolves however, they too are executed.

I have a few questions to ask concerning this.

Are all Guardsmen of the participating regiment executed from the bottom of the command chain to the top? Or is it that only the ones that fought get executed?

Also, where do Inquisitors stand in all this? One would think by virtue of their office, particularly Ordo Malleus Inquisitors, that they would be spared but perhaps not?

The present GK codex (p13) seems to imply that the easiest and safest method is kill all winteses but that this is tempered by several things:

1. Valuable and Heroic imperial citizens and soliders are telepathically scoured
2. Available resources and scale - cleansing some Imperial Guard Regiments is doable - killing Logan Grimnar and his Wolves apparently not.
3. Space Marines are indeed usually mind wiped - unless the Chapter is powerful enough (and present in enough strength) or trusted enough

I imagine that often the Grey Knights use the advantage of suprise to kill any who resist in the aftermath of victory when they can be weakened and off guard. If possible I guess they try and kill everyone upto andincluding the officer staff - with the exceptions above. If there are only a couple of Grey Knights left they are probably limited as to what they can achieve. The description of the massacures on Armageddon has changed somewhat as noted in this thread from slavery and sterlisation to execution.

its also ntoable that even in the GK codex the GK don't always kill everyone

Assault on Beroghast (p16) the primatives survive................even though they have seen the GKs

Mr Morden wrote:
I imagine that often the Grey Knights use the advantage of suprise to kill any who resist in the aftermath of victory when they can be weakened and off guard. If possible I guess they try and kill everyone upto andincluding the officer staff - with the exceptions above. If there are only a couple of Grey Knights left they are probably limited as to what they can achieve. The description of the massacures on Armageddon has changed somewhat as noted in this thread from slavery and sterlisation to execution.

I think the slavery and sterilisation of the general populace is still cannon. The execution only applies to those that were in the process of leaving/escaping from Armageddon.

its also ntoable that even in the GK codex the GK don't always kill everyone

Assault on Beroghast (p16) the primatives survive................even though they have seen the GKs

I think they were fighting Xenos on Beroghast, not deamons.

Emperors Faithful wrote:
You mean the knowledge of the Daemon? Or the knowledge of the Dark Gods and their seperate respective forces?

Becuase the Navy, and indeed all Imperium Space-spanning vessels (including traders) are more than aware of the risks of warp travel, which includes deamonic possession. In fact in Enforcer, ships have policy regarding that, deamonhosts are treated as boarders and passengers are expected to assist in their repulsion. The ship was then "purified" by the Ecclesiarchy, but this didn't involve killing off witnesses. People don't talk about these things lightly, but they aren't executed for simply knowing about it.

Well, kinda both.

True they are aware of the dangers of the warp and the denizens there in, but the explanation that they are appendages of Dark Godlike beings isn't

Pilau Rice wrote:

Emperors Faithful wrote:
You mean the knowledge of the Daemon? Or the knowledge of the Dark Gods and their seperate respective forces?

Becuase the Navy, and indeed all Imperium Space-spanning vessels (including traders) are more than aware of the risks of warp travel, which includes deamonic possession. In fact in Enforcer, ships have policy regarding that, deamonhosts are treated as boarders and passengers are expected to assist in their repulsion. The ship was then "purified" by the Ecclesiarchy, but this didn't involve killing off witnesses. People don't talk about these things lightly, but they aren't executed for simply knowing about it.

Well, kinda both.

True they are aware of the dangers of the warp and the denizens there in, but the explanation that they are appendages of Dark Godlike beings isn't

So how would exposure, on the battlefield, lead to that sort of understanding? Surely you would be too busy screaming and shooting at the hellish nightmares to contemplate on the nature of these possible, never-before-mentioned, Dark Gods?

Emperors Faithful wrote:
So how would exposure, on the battlefield, lead to that sort of understanding? Surely you would be too busy screaming and shooting at the hellish nightmares to contemplate on the nature of these possible, never-before-mentioned, Dark Gods?

The Inquisition rounding you up after and saying there's nothing to worry about.

In the infantry mans Primer, Orks are described as being scared off by loud shouting

Pilau Rice wrote:

Emperors Faithful wrote:
So how would exposure, on the battlefield, lead to that sort of understanding? Surely you would be too busy screaming and shooting at the hellish nightmares to contemplate on the nature of these possible, never-before-mentioned, Dark Gods?

The Inquisition rounding you up after and saying there's nothing to worry about.

In the infantry mans Primer, Orks are described as being scared off by loud shouting

Yes, there's definitely propoganda. But that doesn't explain how the existence of daemons, which is fairly wide knowledge (if not their prticular nature) warrants death.

It's the extent of the threat. Amongst the military, sure, most of them know of the existence of Warp-spawn, but the actual scale of the threat and it's true nature would demolish the moral of most of The Imperium, hence the secrecy.

One problem is that the current Codex gives the impression that anytime, anywhere, the Grey Knights get involved, everyone gets killed or gets their minds wiped (not saying that this IS what it says, as that would necessitate cracking open that piece of crap again).

Not only is this basically ridiculous, in terms of resources and scope (how do you ensure that you get every single person you want, including guys on warp-capable vehicles?), it's contradicted by the most emblematic "Imperial vs. Chaos" fight involving GK, the battle for Armageddon. There, the populace wasn't mind wiped, nor was it wiped out. It was sterilized and imprisoned. In addition, this was criticized by Logan Grimnar, and he wasn't silenced.

Plus, if almost no one is allowed to survive with the knowledge of GK vs Daemon fights, why aren't the GK treated like some weird bunch of unknown Space Marines. "Inquisitor! Some Astartes in silver armor have landed. They say that you requested them. Who are these Marines? We have no records of their Chapter identification." Does the Inquisitor not tell them, and allow a story about Shiny Space Marines, or tell them, and then kill them?

Maybe it's not so much contact with Daemons as it is contact with them in the scale of a full-fledged conflict? My impression of Daemons was when they attack, it's literally a Hell on Earth type situation. I didn't think it was exactly subtle.

iproxtaco wrote:It's the extent of the threat. Amongst the military, sure, most of them know of the existence of Warp-spawn, but the actual scale of the threat and it's true nature would demolish the moral of most of The Imperium, hence the secrecy.

This says it better then I did

Da Butcha wrote:
Plus, if almost no one is allowed to survive with the knowledge of GK vs Daemon fights, why aren't the GK treated like some weird bunch of unknown Space Marines. "Inquisitor! Some Astartes in silver armor have landed. They say that you requested them. Who are these Marines? We have no records of their Chapter identification." Does the Inquisitor not tell them, and allow a story about Shiny Space Marines, or tell them, and then kill them?

The Grey Knights are an extension of the Inquisition.

Have the Grey Knights ever had any large deployments in Ultramar?

I could imagine the 'purge' of any citizens of Ultramar being met with some severe arse-kickery by the boys in blue.

Da Butcha wrote:One problem is that the current Codex gives the impression that anytime, anywhere, the Grey Knights get involved, everyone gets killed or gets their minds wiped (not saying that this IS what it says, as that would necessitate cracking open that piece of crap again).

Not only is this basically ridiculous, in terms of resources and scope (how do you ensure that you get every single person you want, including guys on warp-capable vehicles?), it's contradicted by the most emblematic "Imperial vs. Chaos" fight involving GK, the battle for Armageddon. There, the populace wasn't mind wiped, nor was it wiped out. It was sterilized and imprisoned. In addition, this was criticized by Logan Grimnar, and he wasn't silenced.

Plus, if almost no one is allowed to survive with the knowledge of GK vs Daemon fights, why aren't the GK treated like some weird bunch of unknown Space Marines. "Inquisitor! Some Astartes in silver armor have landed. They say that you requested them. Who are these Marines? We have no records of their Chapter identification." Does the Inquisitor not tell them, and allow a story about Shiny Space Marines, or tell them, and then kill them?

Not really, it's The Inquisition, they have near unlimited resources at their disposal, they probably use the planets own supplies to kill them.
At Armaggedon, all Guardsmen who went off-world were tracked and killed pushing to total kill-count up much higher than Angron would have ever managed, which is the ridiculous part. The populace, or those who in some way witnessed the battles were literally worked to death to re-build the planet. No one escaped.
The Grey Knights are treated like a bunch of unknown Space Marines, but they have Inquisitorial support, so cite that when they arrive. Contrary to what you may think, The Grey Knights aren't spotted that much, as their's likely not many people left when they arrive, and they usually get there and leave before any other military even has a chance to mobilize.

This new rule is stupid, Daemons and Chaos Gods are comon knowledge in the Imperium. But I think that Imperials tell their population different story then what is truth about Chaos gods. And I think that have to do something with mental instability in all Humans, Space Marines to. Maybe if you come in contact with Daemons in that number the Grey Knights are fighting, you get mad in some time - and the best course of action is to:

a - Either forget, or
b - Be executed

Because I really doubt that they would just execute anyone who ever came into contact with daemon ( take Cadia for example ). Maybe it's something totally different that ocuurs only after some period of time.

I came to this idea by watching the faith of O'Kais from Fire Warrior game. What happened to him after fighting all that Daemons and Chaos Marines? He start hearing voices and get really sick. Maybe, when some Human survive that kind of invasion, he also start hearing voices over time and start worshiping Chaos or give him life so that Daemon can enter material realm. And maybe Space Marines are different story when it comes to that ( notice that nothing happened to Space Wolves, but they are closely watched. Like they fear some of them may be traitor or something ).

But this is only theory, but it is more logical. To me at least.

SW were always gonna be watched...
The amount of times they have had fights with supposedly friendly forces is absurd.
I don't actually know what you're point is though...

Brother Coa wrote:This new rule is stupid, Daemons and Chaos Gods are comon knowledge in the Imperium. But I think that Imperials tell their population different story then what is truth about Chaos gods. And I think that have to do something with mental instability in all Humans, Space Marines to. Maybe if you come in contact with Daemons in that number the Grey Knights are fighting, you get mad in some time - and the best course of action is to:

a - Either forget, or
b - Be executed

Because I really doubt that they would just execute anyone who ever came into contact with daemon ( take Cadia for example ). Maybe it's something totally different that ocuurs only after some period of time.

I came to this idea by watching the faith of O'Kais from Fire Warrior game. What happened to him after fighting all that Daemons and Chaos Marines? He start hearing voices and get really sick. Maybe, when some Human survive that kind of invasion, he also start hearing voices over time and start worshiping Chaos or give him life so that Daemon can enter material realm. And maybe Space Marines are different story when it comes to that ( notice that nothing happened to Space Wolves, but they are closely watched. Like they fear some of them may be traitor or something ).

But this is only theory, but it is more logical. To me at least.

It's not new. It's been like that since the very origin of The Grey Knights, and as we've discussed, the general population aren't told about Chaos, they simply know of it through old folk tales and a certain amount of Imperial propaganda. The true nature and scale of the threat Chaos poses isn't even truly known by very high ranking members of The Military.

That's also not a theory, it's true. Witnessing a Daemonic Invasion scours the sanity of a normal human, and is harrowing to even those of steely disposition such as regular Space Marines.

purplefood wrote:SW were always gonna be watched...
The amount of times they have had fights with supposedly friendly forces is absurd.
I don't actually know what you're point is though...

Did you read the whole thing?
My point is that maybe the Daemons are doing something to Humans when they are in large numbers. But that the symptoms of that are seeing later ( probably when population flee to another planet ). To make them hear voices and start worshiping Chaos.
I think that is the point why Grey Knight execute everyone who comes in contact with such large number of Daemons.

Brother Coa wrote:

purplefood wrote:SW were always gonna be watched...
The amount of times they have had fights with supposedly friendly forces is absurd.
I don't actually know what you're point is though...

Did you read the whole thing?
My point is that maybe the Daemons are doing something to Humans when they are in large numbers. But that the symptoms of that are seeing later ( probably when population flee to another planet ). To make them hear voices and start worshiping Chaos.
I think that is the point why Grey Knight execute everyone who comes in contact with such large number of Daemons.

It's called Chaos taint.
I don't know what it actually is but that's what the Imperium calls it and it does tend to lead to worshipping chaos.
I did read it but for the life of me i couldn't understand what your point was.
Space Marines are indoctrinated so they are obviously harder to corrupt. Normal people however are not and as a result are far easier to corrupt.
Also witnessing a daemonic invasion would seriously mess with your head...

Brother Coa wrote:

purplefood wrote:SW were always gonna be watched...
The amount of times they have had fights with supposedly friendly forces is absurd.
I don't actually know what you're point is though...

Did you read the whole thing?
My point is that maybe the Daemons are doing something to Humans when they are in large numbers. But that the symptoms of that are seeing later ( probably when population flee to another planet ). To make them hear voices and start worshiping Chaos.
I think that is the point why Grey Knight execute everyone who comes in contact with such large number of Daemons.

Did you miss my post Coa? Do you always miss the posts which explain things?

Brother Coa wrote:This new rule is stupid, Daemons and Chaos Gods are comon knowledge in the Imperium. But I think that Imperials tell their population different story then what is truth about Chaos gods. And I think that have to do something with mental instability in all Humans, Space Marines to. Maybe if you come in contact with Daemons in that number the Grey Knights are fighting, you get mad in some time - and the best course of action is to:

a - Either forget, or
b - Be executed

Because I really doubt that they would just execute anyone who ever came into contact with daemon ( take Cadia for example ). Maybe it's something totally different that ocuurs only after some period of time.

I came to this idea by watching the faith of O'Kais from Fire Warrior game. What happened to him after fighting all that Daemons and Chaos Marines? He start hearing voices and get really sick. Maybe, when some Human survive that kind of invasion, he also start hearing voices over time and start worshiping Chaos or give him life so that Daemon can enter material realm. And maybe Space Marines are different story when it comes to that ( notice that nothing happened to Space Wolves, but they are closely watched. Like they fear some of them may be traitor or something ).

But this is only theory, but it is more logical. To me at least.

IIRC, in the novel version of Fire Warrior at the end...

iproxtaco wrote:At Armaggedon, all Guardsmen who went off-world were tracked and killed pushing to total kill-count up much higher than Angron would have ever managed, which is the ridiculous part. The populace, or those who in some way witnessed the battles were literally worked to death to re-build the planet. No one escaped.

Well except for Logan and his Space Wolves who stood against the Inquisition on this matter (and IIRC in older fluff he was not the only Chapter Master who objected?) and then walked away in disgust.
Same as an Officio Assassnorium operative would walk away.

The Grey Knights "Kill them All" tends to ignore all of the other fluff where they either fail to appear during a Daemonic incursion or the survivors arre allowed to contonue to serve the Emperor. Although even in the new Codex it says this is the most common but not the only solution..........

Mr Morden wrote:

iproxtaco wrote:At Armaggedon, all Guardsmen who went off-world were tracked and killed pushing to total kill-count up much higher than Angron would have ever managed, which is the ridiculous part. The populace, or those who in some way witnessed the battles were literally worked to death to re-build the planet. No one escaped.

Well except for Logan and his Space Wolves who stood against the Inquisition on this matter (and IIRC in older fluff he was not the only Chapter Master who objected?) and then walked away in disgust.
Same as an Officio Assassnorium operative would walk away.

The Grey Knights "Kill them All" tends to ignore all of the other fluff where they either fail to appear during a Daemonic incursion or the survivors arre allowed to contonue to serve the Emperor. Although even in the new Codex it says this is the most common but not the only solution..........

Yes except The Space Wolves. The rest is simply made-up though. Give me one example where the average citizen is allowed to walk away after seeing a Daemonic Incursion or The Grey Knights.

iproxtaco wrote:Give me one example where the average citizen is allowed to walk away after seeing a Daemonic Incursion or The Grey Knights.

The world of Beroghast.

Grey Knights saved world from Ork WARGHHHH!!!!! When Fire Lords arrived at that world the only thing they wound was a lot of dead Orks. And the population was full of stories about "Steel Saviors".

Are we including Novels - lots of examples - Cain Novels, Guants Ghosts and others.

If its just seeing Grey Knights - the primative population of Beroghast saw them and even told the Marines that arrived later about them.... they were (as pointed out above) only fighting orks but they were not cleansed.

plus I am thinking a lot of the population at the Cadian Gate?

So in order to wipe out the mighty imperium of man.. all the demons have to do is make an appearance on each pl;anet, have one bloodletter pop out and say boo to a billion guardsmen, and the gk take care of the rest? . wait what

Why doesn't the Inquisition just requisition enough resources to invade the Eye of Terror and bomb it flat?

Kilkrazy wrote:Why doesn't the Inquisition just requisition enough resources to invade the Eye of Terror and bomb it flat?

Because that would advance the plotline. In real life (real fake life) they would I agree

Kilkrazy wrote:Why doesn't the Inquisition just requisition enough resources to invade the Eye of Terror and bomb it flat?

The Eye of Terror is unassailable. If you send in 1,000,000 Guardsmen expect 500,000 suddenly insane Chaos Guardsmen to roll out of the EoT in 2 weeks and invade the Imperium.

The Chaos Legions assailed the Eye of Terror OK.

romegamer wrote:So in order to wipe out the mighty imperium of man.. all the demons have to do is make an appearance on each pl;anet, have one bloodletter pop out and say boo to a billion guardsmen, and the gk take care of the rest? . wait what

No. It's not working like that.
Only the most strongest of all Daemons ( Like Ulkair or Daemon from first DoW game ) have that kind of influence. And that influence need time to work ( remember how long it take to citizens of Tartarus to gone insane ). GK are only deployed when BIG daemon incursions are happening, not when their presence is not big enough.

Imperium could somehow get the necron to stop killing them for a while, get the necron to finish building their pylons, thus locking the eot forever, then they can go back to killing eachother!

The Ad Mech is working on reverse engeneering Necron Technology to create those Pylons. Progress is slow, but steady.

Kilkrazy wrote:The Chaos Legions assailed the Eye of Terror OK.

I assume already being nutters shielded them... Ok here is ze plan. We round up all heretics, trick them with an elaborate scheme into thinking we(imperium) are the master and the chaos gods are the ones we should destroy. Send them in, see what happens.

Either way the Inquisition has its work cut out for it.

iproxtaco wrote:It's the extent of the threat. Amongst the military, sure, most of them know of the existence of Warp-spawn, but the actual scale of the threat and it's true nature would demolish the moral of most of The Imperium, hence the secrecy.

It would depend on the size of the incursion.

Personally, I think Armageddon was an exception. The populace and defenders weren't rounded up and executed becuase they were witness to the incursion, it was becuase suddenly they were aware that one of the Arch-traitors of the Imperium, the Traitor Primarch Angron, was alive and kicking. I could understand the Ordos going to great lengths to cover up that, but not every single deamonic incursion.

iproxtaco wrote:
Yes except The Space Wolves. The rest is simply made-up though. Give me one example where the average citizen is allowed to walk away after seeing a Daemonic Incursion or The Grey Knights.

-Sergeant Lukas Bastonne, he and the force he is attached to rescue the planetary governor from the plauged world, plauged masses and Plaugebearers cavorting through the streets.
-The cases of IG and Astartes attacks on the Deamon World in Planetstrike.
-Caiphas Cain, the Tallarn and Valhallan warriors accompanying him are witness to a Slaanesh Greater Deamon. The book also shows that the nature of the Dark Gods is known in the upper echelons of IG command, but only superstitions in the lower ranks.
-Also the incidents where Draigo fights alongside the IG and PDF alone against the deamons, no mention of these forces being rounded up and exterminated is made.
-The Deamon Codex has more examples, in the few cases where they don't end up using Exterminatus.

The simple fact is, the GK can't possibly try to execute all witnesses of a deamonic incursion. They are only a single chapter. The number of regiments that have come into contact with deamon forces, and won, is probably greater than the number of Grey Knights.

You made a good point Emperors Faithful. As I said it is strange that they don't execute every time.

Like I said, there is something more to that than simple:
-Hey, I saw a daemon.
BAM!!!

I hate this part of the lore -.-

Armageddon was probably treated like that because of the sheer number of Guardsmen exposed.


they were from practically everywhere. the risk that they all went bonkers was too great and they had to eradicate them.


in other cases, regiments will remain in the same general area and as such will keep any possable contamination in that area.



you can take a chance a regiment falls and takes out a planet or 2 when they arn't going far, but if it possable that several hundred planets could be contaminated you can't take chances.

I've said it before but the Grey knights need to just paint they armour another bloody colour.

GK: We're here to save you.
Refugee: Yay it's the Ultramarines!
GK: Sure, whatever.

(and that's twice in one day I've made a joke on this so I'll stop there)

Grey Templar wrote:Armageddon was probably treated like that because of the sheer number of Guardsmen exposed.


they were from practically everywhere. the risk that they all went bonkers was too great and they had to eradicate them.


in other cases, regiments will remain in the same general area and as such will keep any possable contamination in that area.



you can take a chance a regiment falls and takes out a planet or 2 when they arn't going far, but if it possable that several hundred planets could be contaminated you can't take chances.

I've already stated my personal hypothesis, that it was the knowledge of the living Deamon Primarch that meant such a drastic cover-up had to be implemented.

Ad Meliora wrote:I've said it before but the Grey knights need to just paint they armour another bloody colour.

GK: We're here to save you.
Refugee: Yay it's the Ultramarines!
GK: Sure, whatever.

(and that's twice in one day I've made a joke on this so I'll stop there)

I did think it was funny though.

How many guardsmen would have actually known it was a Deamon Primarch?


that the traitor primarchs ever even existed is kept under wraps.

why would a guardsmen think "thats gotta be a Primarch" and not just "Thats a really powerful deamon prince"?

Grey Templar wrote:How many guardsmen would have actually known it was a Deamon Primarch?


that the traitor primarchs ever even existed is kept under wraps.

why would a guardsmen think "thats gotta be a Primarch" and not just "Thats a really powerful deamon prince"?

Maybe he told them? Really I think that's how demons do things. It's not so much that they are trying to kill you and wear your skull, they are always whispering too you, telling you things, they might even offer to let you live if you turn over to chaos. Demons can be very insidious.

That's why the GK take such drastic action. You never quite know what guardsman has taken these deals and might be working for chaos.

I might be wrong about all this though. I am not perfect on demons.

well, I doubt the reason was to keep the Deamon Primarch thing under wraps.

I think its more of the deamonic curruption spreading issue then that. and a Deamon primarch would certaintly ooze curruption.



They would probably have excecuted the guardsmen if it had been Kairos Fateweaver. now that would be curruption.

Well that's fething stupid.

GK: Hey thanks for helping us out with that fight against the Daemons.

IG: Hey, no problem, man.

GK: Yeah... so uh, I'm gonna kill you now.

IG: SAY WHAT-

*EXTERMINATUS!!!*

Grey Templar wrote:How many guardsmen would have actually known it was a Deamon Primarch?


that the traitor primarchs ever even existed is kept under wraps.

why would a guardsmen think "thats gotta be a Primarch" and not just "Thats a really powerful deamon prince"?

If I recall the old fluff correctly, Angron made sure his nature was known as he laid waste to the planet.
He even had a massive temple erected in the jungles, the ruins of which still stand.


As for the traitor Primarchs, Horus is definitely common knowledge. Why wouldn't the others be? The common belief though, is that the traitor Primarchs themselves are now long dead.





Automatically Appended Next Post:

Grey Templar wrote:well, I doubt the reason was to keep the Deamon Primarch thing under wraps.

I think its more of the deamonic curruption spreading issue then that. and a Deamon primarch would certaintly ooze curruption.

Some sort of 'corruption' is more likely than just preserving knowledge (if this 'corruption, be it physical or mental, could be somehow explained). But it still doesn't explain why some of those that come into contact with deamons are allowed to live, and others aren't.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh, remembered another case:
-Gaunts Ghosts: In reconquering a Chaos-held world, the IG run into a Greater Deamon. A sanctioned psyker squad does battle with it (the results of which are hazy due to it being from a Guards POV, but the Deamon must have lost sooner or later as the IG were eventually victorious). No one there is killed for being a witness to it.

The Imperium learned a long time ago that if the infection is in the finger, take off the hand.

Guardsman fighting Chaos: :(

Drop pods are seen falling through the clouds: : D

Grey Knights step out: D;

^
Multiple, simoltayneous, defensive, DEEP STRIKES?

Goddard wrote:Guardsman fighting Chaos: :(

Drop pods are seen falling through the clouds: : D

Grey Knights step out: D;

Grey Knights hug the guardsmen and everyone has cookies!

But seriously, is this piece of fluff as bad as bathing in the blood of sisters -.- ?

Nowhere nea it. Still bad though. Generally I think the hate of Matt Ward fluff is over the top, but it's certainly clear he has no real idea what the Imperium is about beyond SPEHS MAHRINS and their MULTIPLE, SIMOLTNUS, DEFENSIVE, DEEP STRIKES.

Really, the Astartes are good, but they're small fry compared to the other forces the Imperium can wield.

The sister thing is a lot more idiot ball holding.

This bit fluff is not that that bad. It would make a lot more sense if the GK where a small black ops unit. They could have a pin point strike kill the demons kill the witness and get out with out killing a ton of their own people, but they are more like a full army. You can't keep an army secret It's like nuking Canada and then trying to cover up the fact that their ever was a Canada. It gets silly quick.

but no one would miss Canada. it would be easy enough to do


thats the last line in 40ks descriptive line, "you will not be missed"

Kilkrazy wrote:The Chaos Legions assailed the Eye of Terror OK.

If by "OK" you mean turned into raving, lunatics with tentacles bent on the destruction of all life then yes. The Eye of Terror is a tear in the fabric of reality in case you didn't know.

We had to save the planet in order to destroy it.

First thing, this piece of flufff isn't a Mat Ward creation, The Grey Knights have been slaughtering witnesses since their inception.
Secondly, the more and more we talk about Mat Ward and his work, the more and more I realize that he is just a careless writer. There are a lot of contradictions, the purity of The Grey Knights being one. This however had been taken a little bit out of context. The problem lies with Mat Ward making blanket assumptions without actually taking existing contradictions into account whilst he's writing.
That's just silly. To be perfectly honest though, there are maybe two examples of witnesses living after Daemonic incursions, and they are in BL books.

There are many examples of people witnessing daemonic occurrences. They aren't wiping out people who witness daemons they're wiping out people who witnessesed Grey Knights.

Yeah the fluff in the GK codex sucks in many ways and that is one of the reasons why it does.

KamikazeCanuck wrote:There are many examples of people witnessing daemonic occurrences. They aren't wiping out people who witness daemons they're wiping out people who witnessesed Grey Knights.

That's the best explanation for it, which makes it even worse really. I still don't understand why people hate this part so much though, is it too grimdark for you, eh?

iproxtaco wrote:

KamikazeCanuck wrote:There are many examples of people witnessing daemonic occurrences. They aren't wiping out people who witness daemons they're wiping out people who witnessesed Grey Knights.

That's the best explanation for it, which makes it even worse really. I still don't understand why people hate this part so much though, is it too grimdark for you, eh?

Considering Daemons fight Grey Knights and most of the time they are simply returned to the Warp it kinda seems the only thing they are hiding from is their own people because the daemons are gonna know who they are because they have fought them before... that's the only thing i don't really get.
The rest i'm shiny with.

Like I said before, they hide themselves to try and keep the extent of the threat that Chaos poses, a secret from the majority of the populace, else people will go mad with fear, rebel, and throw their lot in with Chaos to save themselves. They also kill a lot of people to stop Daemonic taint, which in hindsight isn't actually bad at all.

I don't understand why is it so necessary to keep the existence of the Grey Knights a secret. Surely Demons already know they exist.

olympia wrote:I don't understand why is it so necessary to keep the existence of the Grey Knights a secret. Surely Demons already know they exist.

I don't understand. They aren't trying to keep themselves secret from Daemons, why would you think that?

iproxtaco wrote:

olympia wrote:I don't understand why is it so necessary to keep the existence of the Grey Knights a secret. Surely Demons already know they exist.

I don't understand. They aren't trying to keep themselves secret from Daemons, why would you think that?

From the rest of humanity, plonker.

olympia wrote:

iproxtaco wrote:

olympia wrote:I don't understand why is it so necessary to keep the existence of the Grey Knights a secret. Surely Demons already know they exist.

I don't understand. They aren't trying to keep themselves secret from Daemons, why would you think that?

From the rest of humanity, plonker.

I'm the plonker? Your post did not allude to what your real meaning was, and this doesn't clarify.

Ah I understand now. Yes, it's very similar to the way the British keep the SAS a secret, because it would terrify the public to discover they had incredibly skilled, professional soldiers protecting them.

No, it isn't, and that's not why the British keep The SAS secret. Poor Analogy, is poor.

iproxtaco wrote:No, it isn't, and that's not why the British keep The SAS secret. Poor Analogy, is poor.

The SAS aren't a secret.

It went right over my head, apilogies for the inconweenience.

By the reasoning of some of the pro gk fluff folks, how is the entire Cadian system still manned by plucky Guardsmen these last, oh 8k years?

Those troopers have seen more demons and their princes than the devil itself.

The gk fluff has always been really watery and attempts to make it OTT just detract from what could otherwise be a fun army to field.

By applying simple reasoning to our knowledge of The Grey Knights and The Cadian Gate, the answer should be obvious.
Why would they? Once again, it's not the existence of Daemons they're trying to keep secret, it's the scale of the threat. No other citizens regularly go to The Cadian Gate, not many leave. There are an un-countable number of Cadians. They fight Daemons and Traitors all the time, it's what they're trained for. Why would they be killed in the millions to keep knowledge of a threat secret, that they know about, fight regularly, and are hardened against? Killing un-countable numbers of Cadians all the time would be a stupid move that even The Imperium wouldn't make.

Skiritai wrote:
By the reasoning of some of the pro gk fluff folks, how is the entire Cadian system still manned by plucky Guardsmen these last, oh 8k years?

Those troopers have seen more demons and their princes than the devil itself.

The gk fluff has always been really watery and attempts to make it OTT just detract from what could otherwise be a fun army to field.

Because even Grey Knights know that wiping out the only thing standing between Imperium and Chaos legions is bad thing...
Besides, Cadia was never under demonic incursion, only Chaos Space Marines. Because there is no warp in the Cadian system so the only way for Daemons to assail it is to with ships.

And some things need to stay secret from the general public ( it's not like the CIA is going to say all potencial threats to the USA or how many goverments they bring down...). I am sure that even Cadians are not talking about about what they see to the general Imperium public.

iproxtaco wrote:By applying simple reasoning to our knowledge of The Grey Knights and The Cadian Gate, the answer should be obvious.
Why would they? Once again, it's not the existence of Daemons they're trying to keep secret, it's the scale of the threat. No other citizens regularly go to The Cadian Gate, not many leave. There are an un-countable number of Cadians. They fight Daemons and Traitors all the time, it's what they're trained for. Why would they be killed in the millions to keep knowledge of a threat secret, that they know about, fight regularly, and are hardened against? Killing un-countable numbers of Cadians all the time would be a stupid move that even The Imperium wouldn't make.

Well then, the fact that regular humans can, through training and upbringing, resist chaos right on its own doorstep, should mean that humanity is capable of knowing about the full dangers of the warp without rolling sanity loss. In fact it might cut down on the risk of chaos cults, as the average Joe would know just what was waiting behind the curtains. Also, Cadian guardsmen serve all over the Imperium as far as I can tell. And everyone knows soldiers gossip.

Regular Guardsman: Oh no, terrible things are pouring through that weird portal! What do we do!
Cadian Guardsman: Chill, looks like a stage 4 incursion, nothing major. Eh, nurglings. Stinky but not too bad.
Regular Guardsman: Not too bad?!? DEMONS ARRRGH!
Cadian Guardsman: "Seriously? Get a grip. Taste of lasgun and we'll have them calling uncle soon enough. Mind you we're fethed if he turns up.
Regular Guardsman: We're saved, the marines are here!
Cadian Guardsman: Grey Knights.
Cadian Guardsman: Bugger.

Cadian Guardsman: Nice fighting with you, regular guardsmen, me and my friend will be fine, you, well, you'll see.
I dunno, it's one of the contradictions I mentioned earlier.

Oh sure, Cadia was under demonic incursion plenty of times. In the 13th Black Crusade book for example, It names Erebus as sacrificing millions to create warp storms that ravaged the entire Cadian sector. Several notable warp storms were even named, "Germanicus", "Baphomael" and "Hippocrene". The passage mentioned such storms are commonplace throughout the sector, yet the recent severity was due to Erebus. It also mentioned his storms even attacked the surface of several planets in the sector. Now it did also mention Ordo Malleus "agents" trying to seal up this information on p.52, but nothing much further.

The Eye of Terror codex lists the GK fighting there, although there is no listing of how many mega-billiions of Cadians the chaos GK killed off for hoots

j/k

The GK are secret to stop people rebelling in horror at the measures that the Knights take to destroy the daemons.

I don't see the problem with Cadia. The Cadians who actually defend the gate and might, once or twice in a thousand years, suffer from a mayor daemonic incursion are more or less confined to Cadia.
There is little need to execute them, since they won't be able to spread their knowledge.

If the Chaos Legions were ever destroyed, then the Cadians would be executed.

KingDeath wrote:I don't see the problem with Cadia. The Cadians who actually defend the gate and might, once or twice in a thousand years, suffer from a mayor daemonic incursion are more or less confined to Cadia.
There is little need to execute them, since they won't be able to spread their knowledge.

There is one little problem with that....you can't generate warp field in Cadian system - because of Necron pylons.
Like I said, Daemons can get to Cadia via ships. But they can't summon reinforcements from warp in any way.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Durza wrote:If the Chaos Legions were ever destroyed, then the Cadians would be executed.

Good luck with that

Brother Coa wrote:

KingDeath wrote:I don't see the problem with Cadia. The Cadians who actually defend the gate and might, once or twice in a thousand years, suffer from a mayor daemonic incursion are more or less confined to Cadia.
There is little need to execute them, since they won't be able to spread their knowledge.

There is one little problem with that....you can't generate warp field in Cadian system - because of Necron pylons.
Like I said, Daemons can get to Cadia via ships. But they can't summon reinforcements from warp in any way.

Ah, no. Deamons have been able to tear through the wall in reality even there, mostly through summonings but still.
And the Cadian Necron Pylons aren't active. They're sedate, or dormant, or whatever you want to call it.


Furthermore, people here seem to be forgetting that Cadia is not only a planet, it's an entire sector. There are scores, if not more, worlds around the EoT that make up the Gate of Cadia. Most of these are fortress worlds, but there's no mention of Cadians being 'quarantined' becuase they come into contact with the denziens of the warp.

Isn't the Cadian gate only the Cadian system?
And when the Daemon incursion happened there?

Brother Coa wrote:Isn't the Cadian gate only the Cadian system?

Cadia itself is the planet sitting solidly on the only reliable route out of the Eye of Terra. However, there is the entirety of the Cadian sector around it. Much like Armageddon is the major lynchpin of the the Armageddon Sector, but there are other planets in that sector apart from Armageddon.

And when the Daemon incursion happened there?

Sorry?

Emperors Faithful wrote:

Brother Coa wrote:Isn't the Cadian gate only the Cadian system?

Cadia itself is the planet sitting solidly on the only reliable route out of the Eye of Terra. However, there is the entirety of the Cadian sector around it. Much like Armageddon is the major lynchpin of the the Armageddon Sector, but there are other planets in that sector apart from Armageddon.

That's what I tough, only Cadian system is represents Cadian Gate. But, of course, there are other planet near to them who donate troops and ships to the defense. Like Armageddon is one planet, but Armageddon sector is bunch of planet offering support.

Emperors Faithful wrote:

And when the Daemon incursion happened there?

Sorry?

I meant, when did Daemons attack Cadia in insane numbers, like Armageddon?

Brother Coa wrote:

Emperors Faithful wrote:

Brother Coa wrote:Isn't the Cadian gate only the Cadian system?

Cadia itself is the planet sitting solidly on the only reliable route out of the Eye of Terra. However, there is the entirety of the Cadian sector around it. Much like Armageddon is the major lynchpin of the the Armageddon Sector, but there are other planets in that sector apart from Armageddon.

That's what I tough, only Cadian system is represents Cadian Gate. But, of course, there are other planet near to them who donate troops and ships to the defense. Like Armageddon is one planet, but Armageddon sector is bunch of planet offering support.

Yep. As I recall, a lot of them are Fortress/Garrison worlds. Mostly reffered to as Kasr "Something".

Emperors Faithful wrote:

And when the Daemon incursion happened there?

Sorry?

I meant, when did Daemons attack Cadia in insane numbers, like Armageddon?

On the level of Armageddon? Never as far as I recall. But Armageddon would be the exception, since a Deamon Primarch was present there, nd they rarely walk upon the mortal realm anymore. Deamonic Forces however are present on the attacks on Cadia. In the more recent 13th Crusade there was a instance of Blood Angels accidentally triggering the summoning of a Greater Deamon of Khorne by slaughtering the worshipping cultists.

Maybe the commanders around Cadia tell their men not to blab to the tourists about the giant tentacled monstrosities they fight all the time.

Probably several commisars around to "make sure" there is no one falling for chaos' lies as well.

KamikazeCanuck wrote:There are many examples of people witnessing daemonic occurrences. They aren't wiping out people who witness daemons they're wiping out people who witnessesed Grey Knights.

Seconded - the GK are far more secret than daemons, that's what the purges are for. It just so happens that the only time you'll see GK is during a daemonic attack. Hmm... that does sound suspicious in itself.

Spetulhu wrote:

KamikazeCanuck wrote:There are many examples of people witnessing daemonic occurrences. They aren't wiping out people who witness daemons they're wiping out people who witnessesed Grey Knights.

Seconded - the GK are far more secret than daemons, that's what the purges are for. It just so happens that the only time you'll see GK is during a daemonic attack. Hmm... that does sound suspicious in itself.

What's the purpose of the Gk keeping their identity a secret? It's not like the Deamons don't know that they exist.

Emperors Faithful wrote:

Spetulhu wrote:

KamikazeCanuck wrote:There are many examples of people witnessing daemonic occurrences. They aren't wiping out people who witness daemons they're wiping out people who witnessesed Grey Knights.

Seconded - the GK are far more secret than daemons, that's what the purges are for. It just so happens that the only time you'll see GK is during a daemonic attack. Hmm... that does sound suspicious in itself.

What's the purpose of the Gk keeping their identity a secret? It's not like the Deamons don't know that they exist.

I think it has more to do with the security of Imperium's population. The less people know about real threat that Chaos posses the better. And we all know Human nature, when you hear or see something, you must investigate this to the far limits.

The way I look at it is this:

During a daemonic incursion, you can have millions, if not billions of people exposed to Chaos (and this is just the IG). Of these millions/billions, how many might be tempted to start worshipping Chaos? How long would it take the Inquisition to comb through them? It is more efficient to just, well, kill them all and let the Emperor sort them out.

As to why other daemonic incursions don't experience the cleansing, most likely the Inquistion just sees it as being too late. By the time they get there (or have the forces in place to cleanse the regiments involved) they've already moved to a new battlezone and any troopers tained by chaos may have already gone rogue. The damage would have already been done.

Cadia, being on the front lines, already gets exposed on a regular basis, and probably has the Inquisition all over them already.

and, GKs only tend to show up at the worst possable incursions. the ones where the population is most certaintly tainted.


the ones that regular space marines clear up arn't as big a worry.

I've been following the thread, but just to make this 100% clear... do the GKs purge to hide DEMONS or THEMSELVES? Don't have the codex... so...

they purge for the Deamons,



they don't purge for every infestation, but for most of them. sometimes a purge isn't practical.


the Gks don't tend to show up to minor infestations either so those ones usually don't get purged.


if the Gks show up to the party, s about to hit the fan and you are screwed either way.

Grey Templar wrote:they purge for the Deamons,



they don't purge for every infestation, but for most of them. sometimes a purge isn't practical.


the Gks don't tend to show up to minor infestations either so those ones usually don't get purged.


if the Gks show up to the party, s about to hit the fan and you are screwed either way.

Thanks. This sheds some light on it in my eyes.

the reason they made GK so hateable is too take some steam off the Ultra Marines

That's not the question.

i noticed, but i still think its a valid point, mainly becasuse on P1 every body and their mother mentions they do not like large amounts of the fluff involving grey knights

They don't like large parts, this part specifically, the problem being that it is blamed on Mat Ward, when this has been around for a lot longer.

Mat Ward?!! =mind wipe=

probably bathes in blood of sisters as well...

Actually, I dont think there is much wrong with Matt Ward.. Oops, I suicided, I think..

I dont really have anything agaisnt him, even though i dont really like the GK fluff, i think that stuff stems a way back...also, its just fun to complain sometimes

iproxtaco wrote:They don't like large parts, this part specifically, the problem being that it is blamed on Mat Ward, when this has been around for a lot longer.

True - its part of the original fluff but then was pretty much ignored by the game and all related fluff since then which is where it seems to grate?

Some revilitilisation of old fluff is welcomed - I am pleased to see the jokaro and the Gryinx (in recent Rogue Trader adventure) - this seemed to me to be trying to cram a square peg in round hole?

CrazyThang wrote:I've been following the thread, but just to make this 100% clear... do the GKs purge to hide DEMONS or THEMSELVES? Don't have the codex... so...

Both.