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Post by: H.B.M.C.
Why is it that FW seems to be run by people that understand the purpose of newsletters and previews, etc. etc.
Anyway...
Forge World wrote:Hi there,
In this week’s newsletter we are excited to announce four great new products: an addition to our Dark Eldar range in the form of the terrifying Reaper, a Space Marine Heavy Weapons set, and two decal sheets for the Eldar and the Astral Claws.
Dark Eldar Reaper
Akin to the Ravager, the Reaper is a swift and deadly gunship. Its sleek, dart-like hull is built around a single, monstrously-powerful weapon codified by the Xenosavants of the Adeptus Biologis as a Storm Vortex projector. This cannon operates much like the smaller Haywire blaster, and unleashes a cascading pulse of electromagnetic energy that is far more powerful than anything possible in a hand weapon. The vortex chamber at the Reaper’s heart is a cage for howling energies harvested from the spires of Commorragh itself, which when combined with its speed and manoeuvrability makes the Reaper an elegant but still devastatingly lethal weapon when compared to the brutal armoured warfare practiced by lesser races.
The Dark Eldar Reaper is a complete resin and plastic kit which contains a plastic Dark Eldar Raider kit and a set of detailed resin conversion parts, designed by Stuart Williamson, which allow the reaper variant to be added to any Dark Eldar army.
Experimental rules for this sleek and powerful craft are available now to download from the Forge World website, and the Dark Eldar Reaper is available to pre-order now for despatch in the week commencing 27th June.
Space Marine Heavy Weapons Set
The noble Chapters of the Adeptus Astartes are supplied with weapons and armour by ancient alliance with the Adeptus Mechanicus. Some of the less common patterns of heavy weapons created by these techno-magi date from the hallowed and ancient days of the Great Crusade and the Astartes Legions of old. These shoulder-mounted patterns afford greater protection to the wielder as they allow less of the firer to be exposed to incoming enemy fire as they unleash their destructive salvo.
This Space Marine Heavy Weapons Set, designed by Phil Stutcinskas, contains four resin heavy weapons: a Plasma Cannon, Multi-Melta, Heavy Bolter and a Lascannon, as well as supporting and counter-balancing arms, and backpacks that can be used with the full range of both Citadel and Forge World Space Marine kits.
This detailed resin upgrade set is available to pre-order now for despatch in the week commencing 27th June.
New Astral Claws and Eldar Decal Sheets
Our final releases for this week’s newsletter are two new additions to our range of A4 Decal sheets, designed by Kenton Mills and Paul Rudge.
The Eldar Decal Sheet is packed with over 1,000 individual decals that are suitable for use on both vehicles and infantry. Craftworld, Path and Aspect runes are all included as well as unique runes for the doomed Craftworld of Mymeara and the Corsair bands of the Sky Reavers, Sunblitz Brotherhood and the notorious Void Dragons.
The eagerly-anticipated Astral Claws Decal Sheet contains over 500 Chapter badges, Tyrant’s Claw symbols, blazons and the Maelstrom Warders heraldry suitable for use on both vehicles and infantry. The sheet also contains Chapter badges for the ill-fated Tiger Claws Chapter and is packed with the Astral Claws ‘true’ lion-headed Chapter device as well as the heraldry of Lugft Huron that became synonymous with the notorious Badab War campaign.
Both of these decal sheets are available to pre-order now for despatch in the week commencing 27th June.
Badab War Campaign Weekend – 25th - 26th June 2011
Warhammer World’s Events team are re-fighting the infamous Badab War campaign over the weekend of 25th - 26th June, and with the event rapidly approaching there are only a very small number of Secessionist tickets remaining. The complete rules for army selection can be downloaded now as part of the event pack. Head over to www.games-workshop.com and you will find it in the Badab War event pages in the Warhammer World section of the website.
As mentioned in our last newsletter, Imperial Armour writer Alan Bligh will be hosting a Q&A session on Saturday evening, and the Forge World stand in the main hall will have a selection of our previous Show Only models on sale in limited numbers, along with this year’s MkIII Armoured Boarding Space Marine and Chaos Dwarf Hellsmith.
For more details about the campaign weekend, please contact Games Workshop Customer Service on 0115 91 40 000, the Events Team on 0115 900 4175 or e-mail whworldevents@games-workshop.co.uk.
Games Day Spain – 3rd July 2011
Forge World will be attending Games Day Spain 2011, held at the Pabellon de Convenciones at Casa del Campo in Madrid. Our sales team will be bringing a wide selection of the Warhammer Forge and Forge World range, including both of our Show Only models for 2011: the Chaos Dwarf Hellsmith and MkIII Armoured Boarding Space Marine.
We are now accepting reservation orders for Games Day Spain, and this is the best way of ensuring that we will have exactly the models you’re looking for, packed up and waiting for you to pay for on the day.
To place a reservation order, please send an e-mail entitled ‘Games Day Spain Reservation’ to fwreservations@games-workshop.co.uk, making sure you provide your full name and a list of the items you’d like to reserve. We must receive your reservation order by 20th June to ensure we’re able to process and ship them in time for the event.
You can also phone your reservation order in to the Forge World Customer Service team on 00 44 115 916 8177 (from much of Europe).
Thanks,
Ead Brown
Customer Service Manager
Forge World
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Post by: Ouze
I don't understand the purpose of the heavy weapons. They've already released retro spmreenes weapons, and these use the current aesthetics. Atop all that, devastators suck. So why did they choose to spend developer time on this?
DE Reaper looks like a nice conversion kit, though.
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Post by: H.B.M.C.
My thread wins! Ahahahaha!
Anyway, these heavy weapons are retro heavy weapons. They're the shoulder-mounted kind, and fit with the missile launcher they released. And whether Devastators 'suck' is really neither here nor there.
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Post by: insaniak
Ouze wrote:I don't understand the purpose of the heavy weapons. They've already released retro spmreenes weapons, and these use the current aesthetics. Atop all that, devastators suck. So why did they choose to spend developer time on this?
Because some of us who started in RT or 2nd edition get a little teary and nostalgic over shoulder mounted heavy weapons... and these look cooler than the originals did.
12313
Post by: Ouze
H.B.M.C. wrote:My thread wins! Ahahahaha
As well it should have. A race won by 90 seconds is no less of a win, and I tip my hat to not only your speedier posting but your superior presentation, with the hyperlinks and all.
insaniak wrote:Ouze wrote:I don't understand the purpose of the heavy weapons. They've already released retro spmreenes weapons, and these use the current aesthetics. Atop all that, devastators suck. So why did they choose to spend developer time on this?
Because some of us who started in RT or 2nd edition get a little teary and nostalgic over shoulder mounted heavy weapons... and these look cooler than the originals did.
Ok, so the equivalent of fancy Rhino doors, which serve no purpose other then looking cool? I can understand that.
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Post by: Frazzled
Old school heavy weapons, That takes me back.
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Post by: SilverMK2
Those HW SM look like they are having some kind of problem pooping, what with thier arrow straight off arm with clenched fist. Especially the guy with the angry face grill 
Though almost a month after I first emailed FW regards sending me out a replacement part (it was missing from the kit) I am still waiting for it and the've not replied to most of my emails.
Guess emailing newsletters and making RT style marines is taking up all their time 
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Post by: Vitruvian XVII
You need to give them a ring really, in my experience that yields far better results than emails.
Like the DEldar ship, bout time they released some cool looking stuff! The retro heavy weapons are cool, may have to get some for my SoM.
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Post by: warboss
Frazzled wrote:Old school heavy weapons, That takes me back.
While they are old-school in the sense of the over the shoulder mounts, I don't get that sense from the general styling and I'm not ultimately a fan of them. The rocket launcher had an authentic dated look to it with its strong resemblance to the original RT one but these mostly look like the updated versions simply put over the shoulder (except for the chubby plasma variant) while the heavy bolter is just a completely different direction with little relation to any previous design. I would have preferred if they went for the older dimensions and styling; for instance, the older lascannons didn't have the tapered snout at the end but more of a blocky tip.
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Post by: kronk
I like those heavy weapons.
20983
Post by: Ratius
Because some of us who started in RT or 2nd edition get a little teary and nostalgic over shoulder mounted heavy weapons... and these look cooler than the originals did.
QFT. Loving the plasma cannon.
DE boat, undecided.
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Post by: Nvs
Wish they would provide names for the Eldar runes.
I wonder if one is the Atherakhia symbol that they provided in the DE codex which is supposed to be an 'emo' eldar rune of the same name.
Perhaps it's the sname of Saim Hann? Or the cockatrice/snake/dragon type thing in the upper left?
As for the heavy weapons, I really wish they made them in a way where the other hand was supporting it in some fashion. I'm not sure I like they way they're being held. It's fine for moving, but not for actually using imo. In fact, the lascannon model looks like he's using the gun to spy on his girlfriend he suspects of cheating.
The DE vehicle is a bit depressing too, but hopefully is the start of many things to come. I have doubts I'd buy it though.
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Post by: Kirasu
Those heavy weapons are pretty bad in terms of posing.. They look well sculpted enough but whats the other hand supposed to be doing? the old style marines atleast had the second hand stabilizing the weapon. They're running around with it strapped to a single shoulder? Seems pretty unbalancing
The current ones are much cooler imo and make a lot more sense. Another non-starter is that you gotta buy 1 of every weapon, what if you dont want that? They should be selling packs of 4 identical weapons cause obviously the old HW boxes with 1 of every weapon were an amazing idea? So they had to replicate that?
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Post by: DarkTraveler777
That DE vehicle is definitely going on to my next order. I really like the look of the giant prow-mounted beam weapon.
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Post by: SickSix
Personally I like the heavy weapons. But I would use different left arms. No big deal.
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Post by: JOHIRA
It's rare that I like something for the space marines, but I like these heavy weapons. They have a lot of character.
I like the basic lines of the Reaper (of course I do, it's based on the excellent Raider). The AEthersail is great. The housing for the prow gun is fine. I'm not feeling the prow gun itself though. It's a little too sleek-looking and crosses the line into looking plain. I don't expect esposed wires and tubes on Eldar stuff, but I'd like to see a little texture. The gun honestly looks like something I might convert myself, which is not a good thing.
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Post by: Eisenhorn
Call Forge World for great customer service.
They don't look at the E-mail too often.
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Post by: Theduke07
Raider seems okay I guess. I really don't see a great role for it besides alpha striking parking lots. Also in heavy support competing with Ravagers is a hard sell. And may wallet is really going to feel the hurt if and when they release the Space Shark decals.
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Post by: Breotan
I really like the look of the Reaper but at the same time I'm underwelmed by the functionality. There are better ways for DE to kill vehicles or MC's and the relatively short range means it ain't staying on the board very long after you send it in to kill something. Fairly pricy for what's essentially a guided missile designed to glance the target.
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Post by: Commander Cain
Loving the HW's. While they do not seem to incorporate as much of the retro looks as the missile launcher, the basic shape is still very cool looking.
The DE ship, not completley what I was hoping for, the main cannon looks a bit cheesy for my tastes.
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Post by: Acardia
DE vehicle very cool looking, but not my army.
I like all the FW heavy weapons except the heavy bolter. Rather have a missle launcher anyways.
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Post by: Bikeninja
Nostalgia is a wonderful thing. Shoulder mounted weapons were such a pain. I could never get the hands to line up right with the grips.
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Post by: MagickalMemories
The DE vehicle looks really cool, but I doubt I'll spend my money on it. Not too excited by the rules.
Eric
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Post by: Kymera
I haven't ordered anything from forgeworld in a long time but I don't think I'll be able to resist the Reaper, I think it looks awesome.
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Post by: kronk
Kirasu wrote: the old style marines atleast had the second hand stabilizing the weapon.
Another non-starter is that you gotta buy 1 of every weapon, what if you dont want that?
At second glance at the models, these are excellent points. If I were to make a Devastator Squad, I'd want 4 of something, or 2 of two things and combat squad them. Plus, I'd never run with a heavy bolter. Why would I? I'd rather have the plasma cannon or the lascannon. Too bad you can't just buy those...
And the closed-fist left arms are dumb looking.
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Post by: StarShade
insaniak wrote:Ouze wrote:I don't understand the purpose of the heavy weapons. They've already released retro spmreenes weapons, and these use the current aesthetics. Atop all that, devastators suck. So why did they choose to spend developer time on this?
Because some of us who started in RT or 2nd edition get a little teary and nostalgic over shoulder mounted heavy weapons... and these look cooler than the originals did.
So very true! these weapons look great.
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Post by: Sidstyler
I just want the sail, lol...
18509
Post by: endtransmission
warboss wrote:The rocket launcher had an authentic dated look to it with its strong resemblance to the original RT one but these mostly look like the updated versions simply put over the shoulder (except for the chubby plasma variant) while the heavy bolter is just a completely different direction with little relation to any previous design. I would have preferred if they went for the older dimensions and styling; for instance, the older lascannons didn't have the tapered snout at the end but more of a blocky tip.
Couple of pointers.. The Rogue Trader era Heavy Bolter did indeed look pretty much like that. See this old tarantula that used the shoulder mounted Heavy bolters.
As for the Lascannon, it's more 2nd edition than 1st as you can see here in the second picture. As you can see form the parts shown, 2nd edition Devastators also didn't have supporting left arms as they used the tactical marine arms that were designed for bolters.
I like the weapons; I just hope the 2nd ed missile launcher never makes a comeback!
I would, however, love to see a FW take on the plastic marine scouts from Tyranid Attack and their awesome heavy bolter.
19754
Post by: puma713
SilverMK2 wrote:Those HW SM look like they are having some kind of problem pooping, what with thier arrow straight off arm with clenched fist. Especially the guy with the angry face grill
I lol'ed.
Love the DE Reaper.
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Post by: Calvinus
I can see the retro-appeal on the heavy weapons and why someone who likes retro looking marines would buy it.
I particularly like the lens for the lascannon. If something is going to shoot an extremely focused beam of light to blow up targets a long way off then it's appropriate to have a targeting system, so that's smart. The other 4 weapons though I personally don't care for.
It must get good to be a DE player though with this FW kit coming out and the GW release this weekend too.
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Post by: Mr Mystery
Ordered three Reapers as soon as I saw them.
Bloody useful in the game as well.
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Post by: LavuranGuard
Did my brithday come early? My Dark Eldar and Heresy era Space Marine armies thank Forgeworld!
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Post by: Mr Morden
I just picked up my forge world email and will have to get one of the DE Reapers - the sail alone is so much better than the standard on that comes with the DE vehicles - hope it comes out on its own!!!
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Post by: pombe
As someone with plenty of 2nd Edition Devastators lying around, I can appreciate these HW, since they allow someone to expand their older SM force without having a lot of HW that look dissimilar.
However, if I were to expand my SM force, I would probably just go 100% with the newer Devastators, since they look better, in my opinion. Though the nostalgia does bring a tear to my eye...I keep one squad that is made up of entirely Rogue Trader SM, including the original Lascannon, Heavy Bolter, and fishhead Missile Launchers.
But that assumes I'll be spending money on GW. Which I won't.
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Post by: Alpharius
I wish they'd sell them in sets containing 4 of each type of weapon.
The 2x of each Missile launcher, flamer and meltagun set would have been a better way to go too.
Still, I'll be picking up a set or two (or three or four) for my Pre-Heresy force.
Eventually!
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Post by: MikeMcSomething
So vs AV 11 the Reaper going to do absolutely nothing to a Chimera sitting in the open with no cover about 43% of the time. Kind of a design trap for them - you give it 3x 36" haywire blasters and nobody takes it because it's worse than a Ravager, and if you give the 3x Haywires better STR/AP nobody wants to use a Ravager any more.
Just to clarify for everyone - it's bad. New sail looks sweet though.
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Post by: Breotan
It might be useable if the range was longer. It would become effective at rear area harassment where your Scourges can't always go and you'd still have value in taking Ravagers for actual hard targets. Or, put some rules unique to it for Apoc games to make it more effective at screwing with titans and the like.
As it is, I'll get one just because it looks cool. Not that it will ever see play, mind you. Too bad there's no conversion kit. :(
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Post by: MightyGodzilla
Luving the marine heavy weapons, they're a great nod to RT and 2nd edition done with some real style and flare. They do look much cooler than the originals ever did.
Kirasu wrote:Those heavy weapons are pretty bad in terms of posing.. They look well sculpted enough but whats the other hand supposed to be doing? the old style marines atleast had the second hand stabilizing the weapon. They're running around with it strapped to a single shoulder? Seems pretty unbalancing
The current ones are much cooler imo and make a lot more sense. Another non-starter is that you gotta buy 1 of every weapon, what if you dont want that? They should be selling packs of 4 identical weapons cause obviously the old HW boxes with 1 of every weapon were an amazing idea? So they had to replicate that?
As far as the posing I think it's another nod to the earlier additions. I'm not super unpleased with them. As far as the identical weapons, I agree. There should be four of one certain type. Makes more sense as everyone had their favorite heavy weapon that they'd tend to overemploy. Maybe FW will figure it out - until then, Dakka Swap Shop.
Sidstyler wrote:I just want the sail, lol...
QFT. Excellent sail, would like to more varation on my vehicles, and this looks like the way to do it.
To me the big gun barrel poking out the front of an already long craft looks a little wierd. If they had devised some sort of side mount that started in the back 2/3s of the craft to have some sort of "bullpup" design probably would have worked better. They could have done one barrel along each side of the craft too. Ultimately I agree with whoever posted that the Ravager is pretty hard competition for the slot. I might purchase one just for gaks and giggles.
- MightyG
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Post by: Mr. Burning
MikeMcSomething wrote:So vs AV 11 the Reaper going to do absolutely nothing to a Chimera sitting in the open with no cover about 43% of the time. Kind of a design trap for them - you give it 3x 36" haywire blasters and nobody takes it because it's worse than a Ravager, and if you give the 3x Haywires better STR/AP nobody wants to use a Ravager any more.
Just to clarify for everyone - it's bad. New sail looks sweet though.
Rule of cool?
Its a sweet looking model.
Not everyone who plays cares for effectiveness, redundancy, mathhammer etc.
Damn shame about those heavy weapons though.
I want em but I just plain ain't on the GW boat at the moment.
19754
Post by: puma713
Alpharius wrote:I wish they'd sell them in sets containing 4 of each type of weapon.
The 2x of each Missile launcher, flamer and meltagun set would have been a better way to go too.
Still, I'll be picking up a set or two (or three or four) for my Pre-Heresy force.
Eventually!
Nevermind. I misread your post. . .  Man, I'm getting old.
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Post by: insaniak
Kirasu wrote:Those heavy weapons are pretty bad in terms of posing.. They look well sculpted enough but whats the other hand supposed to be doing? the old style marines atleast had the second hand stabilizing the weapon. They're running around with it strapped to a single shoulder? Seems pretty unbalancing
It is unbalanced. It's crazy, it's a little silly looking, and it's so very much a part of early 40K.
The 2nd edition-era heavy weapons that these are modelled off did not have the left hand stabilising the weapon. They were carried exactly as these ones are.
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Post by: ceorron
JOHIRA wrote:It's rare that I like something for the space marines, but I like these heavy weapons. They have a lot of character.
I like the basic lines of the Reaper (of course I do, it's based on the excellent Raider). The AEthersail is great. The housing for the prow gun is fine. I'm not feeling the prow gun itself though. It's a little too sleek-looking and crosses the line into looking plain. I don't expect esposed wires and tubes on Eldar stuff, but I'd like to see a little texture. The gun honestly looks like something I might convert myself, which is not a good thing.
Agreed, the dark eldar one looks like it has been rushed, definitely too plain.
The gun is too low on the body of the raider for my liking. Would have been better higher up for certain. The AEthersail is fantastic though, they have that 100% spot on.
I do wonder about the weighting of the reaper with the gun sitting as it is on the prow, makes me think there will be no way of getting the thing to sit level on it's flying stand without glueing it in?
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Post by: Mr Mystery
I may find out tomorrow. Despite what the website says about them going out a week on Monday, apparently my order has already been shipped.
No idea if it's in error, as I rarely order from Forgeworld.
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Post by: DarknessEternal
So the Reaper is worse and more points than a Ravager?
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Post by: Saldiven
MagickalMemories wrote:The DE vehicle looks really cool, but I doubt I'll spend my money on it. Not too excited by the rules.
Eric
Yeah, the rules are weak. Not as good at anti vehicle as a DL Ravager and not as good at anti Infantry as a DC Ravager, but costs 30 points more than either one.
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Post by: Vitruvian XVII
Dont forget the rules are only experimental.
Anyway, surely its better to be slightly over price than massively cheese/op, as most people seem to think all FW things are.
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Post by: lasgunpacker
Love the heavy bolter, and the lascannon is pretty cool too.
However, it would be nice to see some "non-current" heavy weapons done in this style, such as an auto-cannon. Throw chaos players a bone, and allow for some custom loyalist units.
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Post by: Lycaeus Wrex
This is Heresy-era stuff is the easiest gig Forge World have ever had. Screw having to come up with new designs - just copy the old crap from 2nd/3rd edition and call it a day!
L. Wrex
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Post by: Omegus
That reaper may make a good base for Vect's personal pimp-ride.
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Post by: Bolognesus
Lycaeus Wrex wrote:This is Heresy-era stuff is the easiest gig Forge World have ever had. Screw having to come up with new designs - just copy the old crap from 2nd/3rd edition and call it a day!
L. Wrex
...and update it to today's standards of quality, in an easier-to-work-with material than the original metals, at a, in forgeworld terms, actually really decent pricepoint? Me likey still...
i have 30 FW PH marines i'm working on right now, along with some mk.IV dreads, an I'm loving it. It's not everyone's cup of tea, but theres a lot of people (like me) who'vebeen screaming for FW to do exactly, precisely, just this for years now.
Oh and no, it's not just a lazy 1:1 copy; compare, for example, the current mk.IV armor to the AOTA mk.IV armor; there's been a bit of a concept update as well.
Or the mk.II and mk.III, which now have packpacks which look like they actually belong or the comparable-yet-subtly different mk.IV and on backpack...
The idea was there already, but that goes for a lot of FW stuff; actually making it, and making it well, is their part. And they did that quite well here again 
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Post by: Sidstyler
Mr. Burning wrote:Not everyone who plays cares for effectiveness, redundancy, mathhammer etc.
And good for them. But some people do, and I appreciate the info, personally. Not that I would ever use it as a "reaper" anyway.
Not everyone who plays cares about fluff or "rule of cool", either.
Vitruvian XVII wrote:
Anyway, surely its better to be slightly over price than massively cheese/op, as most people seem to think all FW things are.
I'd like to know who these people are, because I've never heard anyone make a blanket statement about all FW products saying they were all "overpowered". I've seen a lot of people try to put those words in other people's mouths (and those same people making blanket statements about all of GW's products), but never heard anyone actually say that.
But who cares about the truth when lies and exaggeration would better support the point we're trying to make?
Now what I have seen are people claim that FW products are unbalanced. And if the reaper is supposed to fill a similar role to the ravager, but performs much worse and at a higher point cost, then I'd say those people are probably right because that sounds pretty damn unbalanced to me. That's how balance works, nothing is supposed to be so obviously good that you take it over the other options every single time, or so obviously bad that you never use it.
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Post by: LunaHound
Dark Eldar Reaper is ugly
The mast and the main cannon is so bland that it looks as bad as old armor cast resins.
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Post by: Sidstyler
I wouldn't call it ugly but there is something that looks "off" about it in my opinion. I do kinda like the sail though, if for no other reason than the added variety for my DE vehicles, but one bit is not worth $60.
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Post by: MikeMcSomething
DarknessEternal wrote:So the Reaper is worse and more points than a Ravager?
Yes to bouth counts. Reaper will technically glance a little more over time and pen less, and fail to do anything at all on it's turn, literally, an order of magnitude more often than a Ravager. Automatically Appended Next Post: Mr. Burning wrote:MikeMcSomething wrote:So vs AV 11 the Reaper going to do absolutely nothing to a Chimera sitting in the open with no cover about 43% of the time. Kind of a design trap for them - you give it 3x 36" haywire blasters and nobody takes it because it's worse than a Ravager, and if you give the 3x Haywires better STR/AP nobody wants to use a Ravager any more.
Just to clarify for everyone - it's bad. New sail looks sweet though.
Rule of cool? Its a sweet looking model. Not everyone who plays cares for effectiveness, redundancy, mathhammer etc. Damn shame about those heavy weapons though. I want em but I just plain ain't on the GW boat at the moment.
I have a hard time understanding the relevance of points like this. If you will buy a model when/if you: a) have the money and b) think it's cool while c) not being concerned about whether it's got awesome rules or terrible ones then we aren't going to really need any particular insights into your thought process. You don't need our permission to feel good about favoring style over rules substance.
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Post by: Rayth Phaenor
Not so hot on the plasma cannon, though the others look nice, especially the lascannon.
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Post by: Sidstyler
You don't need our permission to feel good about favoring style over rules substance.
I think it's less about seeking permission and more about reinforcing his own views that "style > substance" is the "right" way to play the game.
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Post by: Vitruvian XVII
Sorry i was just speaking from personal experience. Gets kinda old when you cant go anywhere with your elysian army to game because "its not fair" or something like that.
Granted, that was a couple of years ago, ive found a few places since then who are very cool and treat FW as official GW, as it is. So yeah, probably shouldnt have been so stereotypical!
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Post by: Kharrak
I'm surprised at the reaction to the Reaper's effectiveness. I'm actually definitely considering it precisely due to its rules. It will allow me to effect high armour vehicles with much greater ease than Darklances.
Only a single shot, unfortunately, but three shots that glance on 2+ with the smaller chance to glance on a 6, is more useful to me than three dark lances firing at AV12-14 vehicles - since I'm just as happy to disable them as I am to destroy them.
And the blast shot will be great against tightly packed vehicles, and especially against squadrons - particularly when Immobilised results count as Wrecked.
The weapon design is actually in accordance to how Haywire Blasters are presented in the DE codex as well, so no problems there.
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Post by: Alpharius
Sidstyler wrote:You don't need our permission to feel good about favoring style over rules substance.
I think it's less about seeking permission and more about reinforcing his own views that "style > substance" is the "right" way to play the game.
That's a rather cynical viewpoint...
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Post by: Armorum Ferrum
Those heavy weapons look great - when thinking of the posing remember that heavy weapons had suspensors in the rogue trader days (they helped them move around more easily and shoulder firing weapons)
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Post by: Alpharius
Plus, these are marines in power armor.
The weapons won't be too heavy.
Some lend themselves to 'on the shoulder' (Lascannon, Plasma Cannon, some do look better held with two hands (especially the Heavy bolter!).
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Post by: Mr. Burning
Sidstyler wrote:You don't need our permission to feel good about favoring style over rules substance.
I think it's less about seeking permission and more about reinforcing his own views that "style > substance" is the "right" way to play the game.
Maybe I should stop playing TWC heavy SW lists and Elite guard vet lists with melta and 'dettas and hydras etc.
Is there a right way to play the game? ( I mean, you use the rules that you are given don't you?).
That's me done for dragging this thread OT.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Alpharius wrote:Plus, these are marines in power armor.
The weapons won't be too heavy.
Some lend themselves to 'on the shoulder' (Lascannon, Plasma Cannon, some do look better held with two hands (especially the Heavy bolter!).
FW are def missing a trick with Pre Heresy.
The old metal Chaos Havocs could be a starting point. A two handed Las cannon fired from the hip would look cool, if nothing else.
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Post by: Dashofpepper
Dark Eldar revised ravager with a crappy gun.
We get a bigger haywire blaster - something no one uses anyway.
Marines get a 36" moving invulnerable save carrying, terminator-toting assault vehicle that rams things to death and has melta cannons.
HRM.....
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Post by: jake
The reaper would be totally worth it's points if the beam were Heavy 3 instead instead of Heavy 1 and causing D3 Haywire results. I hope that's a change they make for the final version of the rules.
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Post by: Mr Mystery
I like the rules as they are. It's not a super-weapon, but a rather dependable way to mess about with your opponents vehicles.
I'd seriously take D3 chances at interferences than 3 attempts at armour penetration.
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Post by: jake
Mr Mystery wrote:I like the rules as they are. It's not a super-weapon, but a rather dependable way to mess about with your opponents vehicles.
I'd seriously take D3 chances at interferences than 3 attempts at armour penetration.
Actually, with Heavy 3 it would be 3 Str 7 Haywire shots, instead of 1 Str 7 shot with d3 Haywire rolls. This would make it pretty great at popping light transports and slowing down heavy armor.
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Post by: Melissia
Ravager looks nice. Rest looks meh, but then, I don't like beakie helms or the old studded armor (I prefer "modern" Astartes armor).
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Post by: Mr Mystery
jake wrote:Mr Mystery wrote:I like the rules as they are. It's not a super-weapon, but a rather dependable way to mess about with your opponents vehicles.
I'd seriously take D3 chances at interferences than 3 attempts at armour penetration.
Actually, with Heavy 3 it would be 3 Str 7 Haywire shots, instead of 1 Str 7 shot with d3 Haywire rolls. This would make it pretty great at popping light transports and slowing down heavy armor.
Guess it depends on your strategy. Personally, I like the Haywire rule, as I can fairly reliably stop tanks shooting up my troops, whilst my army bums his infantry into submission. Not everyone's cup of tea, but given the wealth of Dark Eldar anti-tank stuff, I do like the more subtle option.
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Post by: jake
I actually like the Haywire rule as well, and use Haywire Scourges a lot. But really, a heavy support slot firing 1 STR 7 shot with d3 Haywire rolls looks pretty weak next to every other HS option we have. STR 7 AP3 Heavy 3 Haywire would make the Reaper competitive with the rest of our choices.
As it is now, as much as I like the model and as much as I like using Haywire stuff, I can't see a compelling reason to use it over anything else in our Heavy Support.
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Post by: Mr Mystery
I see you point, but don't forget it also does the big blast, which if I'm right in thinking, is the only dual-role weapon in the Dark Eldar Armoury, another reason I like this beasty.
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Post by: Alpharius
As a fan of all things Pre-Heresy and Heresy, I love this release.
FW would be foolish indeed to ignore this segment of the market now that they've FINALLY realized how popular it is.
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Post by: Breotan
Mr Mystery wrote:I see you point, but don't forget it also does the big blast, which if I'm right in thinking, is the only dual-role weapon in the Dark Eldar Armoury, another reason I like this beasty.
The problem is, neither roll is done well enough to make it worth the points and the relatively short range means you can only reasonably expect to get one shot off in a game.
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Post by: Bolognesus
Melissia wrote:Ravager looks nice. Rest looks meh, but then, I don't like beakie helms or the old studded armor (I prefer "modern" Astartes armor).
funny that; the beakie helmet is part of the MK. VI power armor, which is both one of only two armor marks you can accurately build in multiples from a normal tac squad, and in fluff, one of the more recent variants.
that's not to say I like the corvus look either, but it's definately modern!
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Post by: Alpharius
ThomasPolder wrote:Melissia wrote:Ravager looks nice. Rest looks meh, but then, I don't like beakie helms or the old studded armor (I prefer "modern" Astartes armor).
funny that; the beakie helmet is part of the MK. VI power armor, which is both one of only two armor marks you can accurately build in multiples from a normal tac squad, and in fluff, one of the more recent variants.
that's not to say I like the corvus look either, but it's definitely modern!
And it is definitely awesome too!
Having said that, I'd really like a 100% complete and accurate MKVIII power armor miniature too, either plastic from GW or resin from FW!
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Post by: Mr Mystery
Dunno if it's of interest to anyone, but should be getting my Reapers tomorrow.
I'll put pics up of the resin bits.
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Post by: Scottywan82
Alpharius wrote:ThomasPolder wrote:Melissia wrote:Ravager looks nice. Rest looks meh, but then, I don't like beakie helms or the old studded armor (I prefer "modern" Astartes armor).
funny that; the beakie helmet is part of the MK. VI power armor, which is both one of only two armor marks you can accurately build in multiples from a normal tac squad, and in fluff, one of the more recent variants.
that's not to say I like the corvus look either, but it's definitely modern!
And it is definitely awesome too!
Having said that, I'd really like a 100% complete and accurate MKVIII power armor miniature too, either plastic from GW or resin from FW!
Yes! This! This this and this again!
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Post by: MikeMcSomething
So quick recap for the people saying the Reaper is good -
The Reaper:
Trades pens for glances vs armor (sucks)
Hits less often over 100 turns, and has a 10x higher chance than a Ravager to do *nothing* in a given turn. It is considerably less accurate than a Ravager in all cases.
Costs more
If you give it 3 turns of shooting (fairly unlikely if you're facing decent opponents) you will see it produce 0 results at all on vehicles that aren't in cover in 11% of all games it's used. Cover pushes it closer to 16%. That's equivalent to saying "Roll a D6 for every Reaper in your army. On a roll of 1, this Reaper does nothing for the entire game" - odds of a Ravager doing that are infinitesmally small (<1%)
It's worse at killing anything except AV14, where it is only marginally better because of the inherent disadvantage to the way it's gun works. Most people wouldn't pay the same price as a Ravager for a Ravager that had 3x 36" haywire blasters. What FW is asking you to do here is pay more points for a much less accurate version of 3 haywire blasters that comes with an irrelevant special effect.
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Post by: BuFFo
The Reaper's rules are pure garbage.
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Post by: Agamemnon2
Too bad FW thinks only Space Marines deserve playable units. Or maybe their "designers" are just that damn stupid.
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Post by: H.B.M.C.
Really Aggy? 'Deserve playable units'? You're going to start up some generic Marine hate in a FW thread? FW generally makes unplayable units and mostly makes Guard units.
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Post by: Mr Mystery
MikeMcSomething wrote:So quick recap for the people saying the Reaper is good -
The Reaper:
Trades pens for glances vs armor (sucks)
Hits less often over 100 turns, and has a 10x higher chance than a Ravager to do *nothing* in a given turn. It is considerably less accurate than a Ravager in all cases.
Costs more
If you give it 3 turns of shooting (fairly unlikely if you're facing decent opponents) you will see it produce 0 results at all on vehicles that aren't in cover in 11% of all games it's used. Cover pushes it closer to 16%. That's equivalent to saying "Roll a D6 for every Reaper in your army. On a roll of 1, this Reaper does nothing for the entire game" - odds of a Ravager doing that are infinitesmally small (<1%)
It's worse at killing anything except AV14, where it is only marginally better because of the inherent disadvantage to the way it's gun works. Most people wouldn't pay the same price as a Ravager for a Ravager that had 3x 36" haywire blasters. What FW is asking you to do here is pay more points for a much less accurate version of 3 haywire blasters that comes with an irrelevant special effect.
Dude, you look waaaaaay to far into things. It's a sexy model, with a cool gun. I'm sold.
Erm. and they're not asking you to do anything...at all. They've made a model, if you wants it, buys it. If not, ah well.
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Post by: Mr Morden
Mr Mystery wrote: Dude, you look waaaaaay to far into things. It's a sexy model, with a cool gun. I'm sold.
Erm. and they're not asking you to do anything...at all. They've made a model, if you wants it, buys it. If not, ah well.
That's why I bought one (and most other Forge World stuff I buy) - because it looks great - with proper sails as well.
the rules are a WIP and I'd be happy to use as a Ravager anyway in most games.
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Post by: DarkStarSabre
My problem with the heavy weapons?
The arms.
Sure, shoulder mounted and all is fine. I understand that. That works - but the fact that the free hand is doing...nothing. No movement. No options to have gripping, steadying or anything....
Just held out to the side rather awkwardly. There's no dynamic to these. At least not to their 'examples'.
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Post by: Alpharius
DarkStarSabre wrote:My problem with the heavy weapons?
The arms.
Sure, shoulder mounted and all is fine. I understand that. That works - but the fact that the free hand is doing...nothing. No movement. No options to have gripping, steadying or anything....
Just held out to the side rather awkwardly. There's no dynamic to these. At least not to their 'examples'.
Well, clearly there are ways around that particular 'problem', right?
And I *think* they were very deliberately going for a 2nd edition feel with them.
There are lots of ways to make it look better, the simplest being to use the Devastator marine off arm from the missile launcher.
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Post by: Mr Mystery
Just received my Reapers. Various parts included.
Part for the prow, the gun, prow blade (slots in where the ram normally sits, and supports the gun) Aethersail of course, barrel of course sits along the deck, with the controls slotting on top, plus two blades to go on the back.
It's pretty cool, but the first one at least needs a little straightening out.
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Post by: Kirasu
I dont understand the appeal of 2nd edition looking models. It's like how the original startrek looked "low tech" which wasnt a result of the fluff of the universe but a result of the technology and budget available to the creators of the TV show
Same can be said about 2nd edition marines which I imagine would have looked a lot better had they had better technology in which to create the models. Its my own opinion to be sure but I think RTT and most 2nd edition models are gak especially the heavy weapon guys. Very dissapointed in this release not because of the shoulder mounted weapons but as above, the other arm is posed poorly and they are emulating the inferior technology of the past instead of reinventing a more retro look with more modern moulding abilities
I plan on buying an entire company of heresy marines at some point but these guys won't even be considered. The plastic dev kit is light years ahead of this in terms of quality, bits and appearance
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Post by: Kanluwen
Alpharius wrote:DarkStarSabre wrote:My problem with the heavy weapons?
The arms.
Sure, shoulder mounted and all is fine. I understand that. That works - but the fact that the free hand is doing...nothing. No movement. No options to have gripping, steadying or anything....
Just held out to the side rather awkwardly. There's no dynamic to these. At least not to their 'examples'.
Well, clearly there are ways around that particular 'problem', right?
And I *think* they were very deliberately going for a 2nd edition feel with them.
There are lots of ways to make it look better, the simplest being to use the Devastator marine off arm from the missile launcher.
It's not even a Devastator Marine only piece. Every Tactical Squad has that bit in the box(the open palm hand supporting the launcher), so with a bit of searching it can be had pretty easy.
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Post by: Kirasu
If its so easy they could have went through the trouble to sculpt that hand piece then for their "premium" figures imo. You shouldnt have to search a bits bin to get what should be in the kit from the start given the price and all the bits you *dont* get by buying this kit over a real dev box. People complain about GW being lazy at times with sculpting, FW should not be treated any different.
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Post by: Mr Mystery
But it's a central part of the 'retro' look??
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Post by: Mr Mystery
Not that I'm aware.
Not as if the Reaper has replaced the Ravager, which is never to be seen again, is it?
And seriously, all that maths? Going a bit far in my book. But hey, whatever turns you on fella.
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Post by: Worglock
H.B.M.C. wrote:Really Aggy? 'Deserve playable units'? You're going to start up some generic Marine hate in a FW thread? FW generally makes unplayable units and mostly makes Guard units.
It's become obvious that FW has gottentheir marching orders from management.
"moar mahreenz"
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Post by: Alpharius
It is hard to fault a company for... making stuff that sells well.
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Post by: sennacherib
I really dont care for any of the marine HW options. The fact that they are just kinda holding one hand at their side looks like my 2nd edition ork models. Stiff and not very believable. Wont be buying those.
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Post by: Sidstyler
Mr Mystery wrote:And seriously, all that maths? Going a bit far in my book. But hey, whatever turns you on fella.
His reasons for disliking the model are just as valid as yours are for liking it. Personally I appreciate that he made the effort and posted that info for the rest of us, I thought it was useful information to have even if I didn't plan on buying the model anyway.
No one is giving you gak for buying the model (multiples of it at that), so I don't understand why you're being such a dick to a guy for, you know, thinking before making a purchase.
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Post by: cadbren
The idea of the hand at the side is that these guys are walking tanks so they stop and fire. They don't need to pose whilst doing this. A quick change out and the other arm can be firing a bolt pistol to fend off enemy that get too close.
Just ordered a set of these, particularly like the old round design of the plasma weapon.
Pose options for these guys includes a rest pose with weapon either pointing straight up or angled down with a pointing hand on the free arm or an auspex or picking nose, whatever, they're great.
Fluffwise might consider them to be for shorter engagements as they lack the extra power/ammunition that the modern heavy weapons have as they don't have modified powerpacks with extra power cells or ammunition bins.
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Post by: johnnyrumour
Plus, y'know, the examples are all walking. I don't know if the people complaining about the arms are some kind of ubermensch but when i carry a heavy weight on my right shoulder my left arm looks about the same as those ones.
Anyway it's a moot point. They are seperate parts that have a variety of uses.
And with regards to the 'moar mehreenz' thing - for years people have wanted pre-heresy style bits. now you condemn them for releasing stuff that people want? Bah! What rotters they be.
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Post by: cadbren
That was quick, they arrived today, rear half of the weapons are a little off set but fixable, look forward to putting these together. I was tempted to have one with the left arm up giving the finger as a response to some of the comments here but I think I'll just give them bolt pistols or somesuch.
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Post by: carabine
Dashofpepper wrote:Dark Eldar revised ravager with a crappy gun.
We get a bigger haywire blaster - something no one uses anyway.
Marines get a 36" moving invulnerable save carrying, terminator-toting assault vehicle that rams things to death and has melta cannons.
HRM.....
Agamemnon2 wrote:Too bad FW thinks only Space Marines deserve playable units. Or maybe their "designers" are just that damn stupid.
You both realize that FW designers just make what they want to right. They get an idea and say "Hey I wanna do this, I think it will sell and be cool to have" Look at their product line for the last 10 years, it's been 80% Marines and IG. Why cry about a situation that's existed for a decade at the least.
Also FW designers just like making marine stuff, they aren't beholden to GW's whims of balance or books. FW while owned by the same parent company and sharing the IP is not actually a full part of GW and does not follow GW's design or marketing philosophy. FW may occasionally work with GW to schedule products in order to maximize profit but if you look at it over the years they just release what they want, when they want, with whatever rules they think are cool and balance be dammed.
I now as I always do, applaud FW for doing what they think will bring them cash and doing it in a way that doesn't make me feel like they've raped my wallet.
Getting 1 of each heavy weapon is something I've grown accustomed to since the plastic devastator kit was released. You had to buy 4 of those just to make a solid devastator squad.
As for the left arms, bolters, pistols, ammo hoppers, meltabombs, grenades or the missile launcher left hand. So many options to fix a small bit of bad design.
I'm still waiting on pre heresy terminators from FW. I mean c'mon we've got mk 1-6, when are we getting terminators? I'm not whining just anxious is all. Maybe we'll get them with IA 11, I mean it's supposed to have space wolves in it isn't it. So a new termie armour isn't out of the question.
One Thing I have noticed about FW and the biggest thing I enjoy about them is that back when I first started visiting their page a mars pattern warhound titan was 235 great britan pounds. And y'know what, it's still 235 gbp. Regardless of GW's price hikes, regardless of inflation it's the same damn price and so is a myriad of their other items.
Keep up the good work FW I love the new heavy weapons, armor kits and vehicles. Just please hurry up and give us pre heresy terminators.
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Post by: Sidstyler
Why cry about a situation that's existed for a decade at the least.
Hell, imagine what the world would be like if everyone had that attitude, lol...
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Post by: H.B.M.C.
Don't be so melodramatic Sid. That's my job.
FW do mostly Guard stuff. They just did two Marine books in a row, so they're on a bit of a Marine bent. They did a bunch of Eldar stuff as well, and will probably do some more when the next book comes out (along with some more Guard stuff no doubt). And then they'll move onto something else.
It's hardly FW intentionally just doing Marine after Marine release like their big parent company.
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Post by: BrookM
You say that expecting people to believe it.
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Post by: Alpharius
More marine stuff is fine by me, especially if it is Pre-Heresy stuff, and especially if it is Pre-Heresy Terminators.
And I suspect that they would sell quite well, which would lead to even more marine Pre-Heresy kits, which would make me happy, and cause the Marine Hatin' to reach new depths of awesomness - a win/win situation!
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