There is a thread floating around here about wether one nation is the 'greatest', It got me thinking as to what does everybody consider their nation's greatest and worst achievement is. Feel free to post your thoughts.
Malaysia:
Greatest:
-Food. Maaaaan, the food.
-The culture. People are generally friendly and accommodating.
Worst:
-Government. Quite a few people dislike them for many good reasons.
-The weather. We're a tropical country, so it either rains all day or boils our eyeballs.
You get what you pay for of course. We don't need free health care because our health care system is the best in the world. A politician said that so I know it is true.
I love how you want to take the piss out the Americans over healthcare, yet you placed the Belgian Congo as one of Belgium's greatest achievements!
It's widely acknowledged as one of the most brutal and barbaric colonial regimes of all time. I mean, 50% percent of the population died, according to most reliable estimates...
Automatically Appended Next Post: Oh, yeah. Almost forgot:
Worst Irish famine, Indian Famines... though in truth they were not the sole fault of the British Empire.
Best I think the fact that I don't really know where to start when listing British achievements, is an achievement in itself on the part of the United Kingdom. Too many to list.
best:
-won its freedom.
-is a democracy.
-strongest world power.
-And?
-So it can join the 78 other demcratic countries...
-Argueably. China has a stronger economy and a far bigger military.
Honestly, these are no-where near Americas greatest achievements. Inventing the car, for example, would be much better here...
worst:
-stupidly large debt.
-loosing power.
-thinks it needs to be friendly to everyone.
-True.
-True.
-It kinda does, you know. If history teaches us anything, it's that pissing people off=bad.
Great Britain:
-Founding North America
-Largest empire in history
-All those inventions & contributions to science, the train, the lightbulb...Actually, here's the Wiki article.
Just look at the scroll bar.
-The production/assembly line. We may not have invented the car, but damn did we make it affordable. Eli Whitney and Henry Ford have earned their place as key figures in the evolution of modern industry. Really, modern industry may be the result of effort on the part of many people and nations, but the US definitely takes a top spot in the list.
-Putting a man on the moon. So what if other nations could have done it, and so what if it was achieved with a lot of help from non-Americans? We gathered the money and the resources needed to get the job done. We did it *waves US flag*
-The US probably contributed more the development of modern computing and the internet than anyone else.
-The US is arguably one of the most important driving nations for modern globalization.
-Massive contributions to the concepts of logistics and force projection. Some people probably don't care, but I'm a military historian. I do care
Worst:
-A per capita leader of the world for douche bags (imo). Not even France, as much as I dislike them, tops us.
-A per capita leader of the world for arrogance (Let's face it, we can't let France beat us. Ever).
-The above
Best:
-Trudeaumania
-Rush
-telephone
-duct tape
-universal healthcare
-Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms (Constitution Act, 1982)
-Ice Hockey
-Insulin
-War of 1812
-Trailer Park Boys
-Leslie Nielsen
-Maple Syrup
-Red Green Show
-Canadian women
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Canadian_inventions
Worst:
-European and Native relations
-Brian Mulroney
-Justin Beiber
-Celine Dion
Edited: Forgot Bieber, on the worst list. And Celine Dion.
Cheesecat wrote:Worst:
-European and Native relations
-Brian Mulroney
Not to be rude, but seriously. You didn't list Justin Beiber? I blame you guys for unleashing this horror on the world. We know Hannah Montana is bad. We admit it. Time to step up Canada
Nice points LordofHats and Cheesecat, oh and Monster Rain I dont really see how Christianity is an achievement- well not for the U.S.A at least, as you can't take credit for creating it but only having a 'following' as such, and wether that is a good, bad or simply 'meh' achievement truely depends on the eye of the beholder.....
Suprised no-one has gone for the English language, or an equivalent. Firstly it shows that English culture is engrained in quite a few other nations, U.S.A., alot of Canada, Australia, New Zealand etc.
Hmmm. I dunno.
The Republic is a pretty small nation, and for most of it's existence where it wasn't a third world backwater it has been getting a helluva lot of help from Europe.
Let's see...
Greatest Achievements:
-The Peace Process is pretty good, really. I mean, it's reasonably successful.
-Free University Education is a big deal, though it may not last long.
It's hard to think of much else we've done of note since independance.
Worst Achievements:
-Voting Fianna Fáil in consistently since they were formed, bar a couple of bumps.
-Current financial situation.
-Sanctimonious stances about neutrality which are in reality nothing more than cowardice.
Da Boss wrote:Hmmm. I dunno.
The Republic is a pretty small nation, and for most of it's existence where it wasn't a third world backwater it has been getting a helluva lot of help from Europe.
Let's see...
Greatest Achievements:
-The Peace Process is pretty good, really. I mean, it's reasonably successful.
-Free University Education is a big deal, though it may not last long.
It's hard to think of much else we've done of note since independance.
Worst Achievements:
-Voting Fianna Fáil in consistently since they were formed, bar a couple of bumps.
-Current financial situation.
-Sanctimonious stances about neutrality which are in reality nothing more than cowardice.
model collector wrote:Nice points LordofHats and Cheesecat, oh and Monster Rain I dont really see how Christianity is an achievement- well not for the U.S.A at least, as you can't take credit for creating it but only having a 'following' as such, and wether that is a good, bad or simply 'meh' achievement truely depends on the eye of the beholder.....
I would say that the massive cultural influence that Ireland has had, and continues to have, is a fairly amazing achievement. There would be no rock 'n' roll, for example without Irish traditional music. No blues, no gospel, no modern folk music, no John Lennon, no Paul McCartney.... and that's just pop music. What about literature? Acting?
Hmmm, well, I was trying to steer away from the achievements of individual irish people, because I see those as THEIR achievements, and trying to look more at the achievements of the Irish State. I was also only looking at the achievments of ireland from independance, because before that it's all too interlinked with the UK to be "ours".
I agree, we punch above our weight considerably with regard to international visibility, largely due to emigration. And our music has travelled well. And we seem to have a knack for getting the literature prize (with a small population).
Guinness though? Pah! A bland stout at best. Acceptable when there's nothing else around, but the world would thank us much more if we'd exported Wrassler's XXXX to them
Best:
Has done much for exploring nuclear *stuff*
Lax gun laws(I like my durned ol' guns)
Cultural Demographics
First modern Democratic Republic
Various freedoms of speech
Great Military
Worst:
Well we did drop the first A-bomb Polarizing media
Political correctness
Too much government control (almost everything a person interacts with has a bureau attached to its use)
Debt out the Getting involved in too many wars imo (seriously fething libya and yemen, yet we didn't do jack in Iran)
Current outlook on our allies(Isreal and Turkey are the only true allies we have in the region imho)
Cheesecat wrote:Best:
-Trudeaumania
-Rush
-telephone
-duct tape
-universal healthcare
-Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms (Constitution Act, 1982)
-Ice Hockey
-Insulin
-War of 1812
-Trailer Park Boys
-Leslie Nielsen
-Maple Syrup
-Red Green Show
-Canadian women
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Canadian_inventions
Worst:
-European and Native relations
-Brian Mulroney
-Justin Beiber
-Celine Dion
Edited: Forgot Bieber, on the worst list. And Celine Dion.
That's an okay list, but you did forget one of the greatest Canadian accomplishments of all time...
LordofHats wrote:
Cheesecat wrote:Worst:
-European and Native relations
-Brian Mulroney
Not to be rude, but seriously. You didn't list Justin Beiber? I blame you guys for unleashing this horror on the world. We know Hannah Montana is bad. We admit it. Time to step up Canada
Coming from the country which unleashed the nasally, ear-bleeding horror that is Rebecca Black? Jeezus America, you guy's should start to pick it up. Again...
LordofHats wrote:
-The production/assembly line. We may not have invented the car, but damn did we make it affordable. Eli Whitney and Henry Ford have earned their place as key figures in the evolution of modern industry. Really, modern industry may be the result of effort on the part of many people and nations, but the US definitely takes a top spot in the list.
The assembly line has existed for a long time, at least since the standardized assembly of warships in Venice. In fact, the image of the solitary craftsman laboring on individual artifacts only really applied to certain industries, usually those that produced small objects like firearms and silverware. What Henry Ford did was adapt slaughterhouse techniques for butchering meat to the production of automobiles by adding the conveyor belt, though Ransom Olds did it first.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
LordofHats wrote:
What's the difference from the Autobahn?
For one, the political barriers to construction, though I didn't say it was something we invented. Achievement doesn't imply uniqueness.
Dogma wrote:For one, the political barriers to construction, though I didn't say it was something we invented. Achievement doesn't imply uniqueness.
Hmmm. I suppose there's scale too. Pretty big infrastructure project. EDIT: Our railway system? We covered a massive amount of territory in railroad within a few decades.
I love how you want to take the piss out the Americans over healthcare, yet you placed the Belgian Congo as one of Belgium's greatest achievements!
It's widely acknowledged as one of the most brutal and barbaric colonial regimes of all time. I mean, 50% percent of the population died, according to most reliable estimates...
But.... But.... If they didn't produce enough... we had to perform punishments...like chopping of hands. (great idea, that will definetly increase their production .)
We may had a little problem with giving money for hands... so some less disciplined men just kept chopping away....
And for the healcare choice, this was just to say that no country is perfect....
model collector wrote:
Nice points LordofHats and Cheesecat, oh and Monster Rain I dont really see how Christianity is an achievement- well not for the U.S.A at least, as you can't take credit for creating it but only having a 'following' as such, and wether that is a good, bad or simply 'meh' achievement truely depends on the eye of the beholder.....
VermGho5t wrote:
Really? What areas does this qualify for you as being the best? (Surely not speed?)
I didn't say that the US had the best internet in the world, far from it. I said that the internet was one of the US's best achievement because it has its origins in ARPANET, and the resulting NSF computer network.
Best: The Lunar Landing. I could contend with everyone else on all the issues the US has in the present day, but we all have to admit that the Lunar Landing was one of the greatest moment in US history.
WOrst: There are lots of contenders here....the Japanese internments, the campaigns against Native Americans, but the absolute worst in my opinion has to be our response to Unit 731. Japanese war criminals, who had unleashed untold horrors against thousands of innocents, let off the hook, just because we wanted to get our hands on their research.
An Athenian democracy--the classical definition of a democracy--means that every CITIZEN has a vote.
A Republic, like the Roman republic, is a modified form of oligarchy, where CITIZENS elect a group of rulers to rule in the name of the people.
To me calling something a 'Democratic Republic' is kind of oxymoronic. To be honest, there are a lot more things to be proud of in the formation of the US than just being 'first' like the Constitution. THat's the real miracle of the US's founding.
Well it is largely an oxymoron, except Standard republics are held by the hands of the elite(roman senate, iirc roman citizens elected plebates who had minimal voice in how things went) and the people have no say, democracy is how you have stated. Though another achievement is a rebellion that did not consume its leadership.
ChrisWWII wrote:An Athenian democracy--the classical definition of a democracy--means that every CITIZEN has a vote.
A Republic, like the Roman republic, is a modified form of oligarchy, where CITIZENS elect a group of rulers to rule in the name of the people.
To me calling something a 'Democratic Republic' is kind of oxymoronic.
Not really, a republic is just a state without a monarch. People apply all sorts of other definitions to the word 'republic', when what they often mean are things like 'representative' or 'constitutional'.
As such, any state which is democratic, and has no monarch as it's formal head of state is a democratic republic, with no oxymoron involved.
sebster wrote:
Not really, a republic is just a state without a monarch. People apply all sorts of other definitions to the word 'republic', when what they often mean are things like 'representative' or 'constitutional'.
As such, any state which is democratic, and has no monarch as it's formal head of state is a democratic republic, with no oxymoron involved.
I suppose that's true, but in a way I still feel that a "true" (yeah, yeah, I know. No True Scotsman. So sue me.) republic is one that has the system I described earlier. I mean, North Korea is the 'Democratic People's Republic of Korea' and Mainland China is the 'People's Republic of China'.
While those nations fit the definition of a republic, I doubt anyone would describe them as a true republic.
ChrisWWII wrote:
I suppose that's true, but in a way I still feel that a "true" (yeah, yeah, I know. No True Scotsman. So sue me.) republic is one that has the system I described earlier.
That isn't a No True Scotsman. That's you fabricating definitions for established technical terms.
ChrisWWII wrote:
I mean, North Korea is the 'Democratic People's Republic of Korea' and Mainland China is the 'People's Republic of China'.
While those nations fit the definition of a republic, I doubt anyone would describe them as a true republic.
I would, with the exception of North Korea...maybe. A republic is a state which lacks a hereditary ruler, that's it.
Anyone that disputes this doesn't know what the word means.
America:
Pros:
Saved europe's rear-end TWICE
Computers
Our incredible mastery over flight and aeronautics (It's only been a hundred years since the wright brother's first flight,and we have the F-22 )
We struck the first blow to the collapse of the british empire (I think)
Cons:
Vietnam. wtf america?
The cold war. What a joke.
Star Wars (SDI)
Department of Homeland Security. What kind of name is that? I get the function, but the name is idiotic.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
iproxtaco wrote:What's so unique about Americas Democratic Republic? I believe the origins of a Republic dated back to an area of India around 300 BC.
Implying India is a democracy. It's more like an Oligarchy. They still have a freaking caste system that holds down and oppresses its people. There's a bunch of people who hold positions of power while the rest of the masses rot in a ditch, cutting of their children's arms to make them better beggars.
Samus_aran115 wrote:
Implying India is a democracy. It's more like an Oligarchy. They still have a freaking caste system that holds down and oppresses its people. There's a bunch of people who hold positions of power while the rest of the masses rot in a ditch, cutting of their children's arms to make them better beggars.
iproxtaco wrote:What's so unique about Americas Democratic Republic? I believe the origins of a Republic dated back to an area of India around 300 BC.
Implying India is a democracy. It's more like an Oligarchy. They still have a freaking caste system that holds down and oppresses its people. There's a bunch of people who hold positions of power while the rest of the masses rot in a ditch, cutting of their children's arms to make them better beggars.
Erm, not quite. I did not imply India was a democracy, that's a fantastical conclusion you drew. I simply stated that evidence of a republic was found IN AN AREA OF INDIA that supposedly existed around 300 BC. That coupled with various other sources, Greece, Rome, France, the US was not the first, and does not appear to be a unique democracy, however, my knowledge of the governmental system is limited, so further clarification would be spiffing.
Samus_aran115 wrote:
Implying India is a democracy. It's more like an Oligarchy. They still have a freaking caste system that holds down and oppresses its people. There's a bunch of people who hold positions of power while the rest of the masses rot in a ditch, cutting of their children's arms to make them better beggars.
We struck the first blow to the collapse of the british empire (I think)
Dead handy, the bargaining position the US gained due to their actions both military and financial during the second world war, in leveraging Britain to engage in decolonisation. Led to the reduction of Britain as a superpower, leaving the US as uncontended rulers in the West. Like I say, dead handy.
Best:
-Anti-Hate Speech Laws (EX: It's a criminal offense to do what the Westboro Baptist Church does.)
-Copyright Shmopyright (None of that talk about jailing people for posting a song on youtube)
-Our military personnel (note: not technology)
-Lot's of open space (few crowded cities, the country has acres with no one present in them)
-We're friends with mostly everyone we meet
Worst:
-We haven't changed in the last 30 years
-Representation by region, not by population
-We're neighbours to the US (If they get nuked, were screwed)
-Our copyright laws mean we can't get the latest gadgets
-Quebec
iproxtaco wrote:What's so unique about Americas Democratic Republic? I believe the origins of a Republic dated back to an area of India around 300 BC.
Implying India is a democracy. It's more like an Oligarchy. They still have a freaking caste system that holds down and oppresses its people. There's a bunch of people who hold positions of power while the rest of the masses rot in a ditch, cutting of their children's arms to make them better beggars.
Erm, not quite. I did not imply India was a democracy, that's a fantastical conclusion you drew. I simply stated that evidence of a republic was found IN AN AREA OF INDIA that supposedly existed around 300 BC. That coupled with various other sources, Greece, Rome, France, the US was not the first, and does not appear to be a unique democracy, however, my knowledge of the governmental system is limited, so further clarification would be spiffing.
Oh. I see. I guess I just needed to vent that then. I've been having some rather intense rant sessions about india with my grandfather
founding north america? that doesnt make any sense, because north america is a continent. And in the context of which i believe you meant it, it is partially true. Spain, France, Dutch, English all had a HUGE impact on North American countries and culture. To claim that England founded all north american countries is completely false. Spain colonized florida, mexico(spanish is spoken in mexico and is very common in the southern states), and much of the western parts of NA. France had the entire midwest and much of canada(french is still one of the main languages in canada). The Dutch started and controlled New York for a very long time and had holdings in much of the carribean. The English did hold most of the east cost and much of the ohio valley, and did eventually beat the french out of much of their land and may have with spain(i dont know), but to claim that they Founded North America all by themselves is simply absurd.
Samus_aran115 wrote:
Implying India is a democracy. It's more like an Oligarchy. They still have a freaking caste system that holds down and oppresses its people. There's a bunch of people who hold positions of power while the rest of the masses rot in a ditch, cutting of their children's arms to make them better beggars.
iproxtaco wrote:I think he means the United States, which isn't entirely true either.
To say the English had no influence or even a small influence in US culture would be completely erroneous, but to claim it belongs all to them is erroneous as well. So i agree with you.
also, i just wanted to use erroneous a couple times!
Aside from seeding a certain number of philosophies and tools, Great Britain provided a force to fight against more than anything else. Nothing brings unity better than tyranny, as the US saw GB as the force to fight against, the concept of no monarchy being a founding tenant.
Wow. its amusing to see that its almost only Brits/ Americans that post in ths topic, Maybe that says somethign about those nations, and as for my own home land? Well we have done a few good things and a few bad ones I guess
It says that both nations have done so much, and are so similar and intertwined, and that both are very patriotic, so there is a measure of disagreement over the specifics.
Texas
Best:
-Tex Mex (alternatively barbeque)
-Texas women
-Mexican women
-Our tolerance and permissive attitude in allowing the other states in the US to have a minor say despite their incredibly miniscule importance and total lack of knowledge of proper mesquite smoking techniques.
Worst:
-Jackalopes
-Texas criminals
-Texas politicians (wait I think I justy repeated myself)
-Our tolerance and permissive attitude in allowing the other states in the US to have a minor say despite their incredibly miniscule importance and total lack of knowledge of proper mesquite smoking techniques.
Frazzled wrote:Texas
Best:
-Tex Mex (alternatively barbeque)
-Texas women
-Mexican women
-Our tolerance and permissive attitude in allowing the other states in the US to have a minor say despite their incredibly miniscule importance and total lack of knowledge of proper mesquite smoking techniques.
Worst:
-Jackalopes
-Texas criminals
-Texas politicians (wait I think I justy repeated myself)
-Our tolerance and permissive attitude in allowing the other states in the US to have a minor say despite their incredibly miniscule importance and total lack of knowledge of proper mesquite smoking techniques.
I'm at the public library, and I'll admit that I was laughing really hard for a couple minutes. Whatever. That was hilarious
Never gonna give you up
Never gonna let you down
Never gonna run around and desert you
Never gonna make you cry
Never gonna say goodbye
Never gonna tell a lie and hurt you
Well for Australia here are its achievements
Great Country
Nice People
Very Small Debt
Has perserved some of its natural beauty
Great wages.
Worst Achievements..... Oh dear....
Hunted down the Aborigines
Kinda Racist
Boomerang politics
Ridicilious taxes
Stupid pointless racism
The Satirist's of the world.
Make lots of jokes when they are not needed
Horrible Military (ITs pathetic they only have 150 planes. what the hell.....)
Their Health, they are not up to date with cancer treatment.
It was going to be. The producers started shooting footage of daily life in India, but decided that 2 hours of dancing wouldn't interest Americans, so they made some stuff up about orphans and Who Wants to be a Millionaire.
Monster Rain wrote:Frazzled, what is your position on Chupacabras?
Fried, not boiled.
I suspect that Chupacabras are the real reason the government wants to build a wall on the Mexican Border. It won't stop all of them, but it'll stop some.
The best:
1. Golden age through the good use of slavery and windmills!
2. We made one of the 7 modern world wonders. (Delta Works)
3. 25% of our country is stolen, from the sea.
4. We owned the 17th age.
5. Invented Microscope, submarines, Philishave!, artificial Kidneys, compact cassetes and compact discs.
6. Discovered New Zealand and Australia.
The worst:
1. One of the original members (and thus founders) of the EU.
2. Original founders of New York...
3. WWII, look it up, it's just emberassing
4. Invented stock markets and Traffic enforcement camera's.
5. Discovered bacteria.
Best: World's largest Naval base. United Nations Marshall Plan Spanish-American War Theodore Roosevelt, best President ever and all around good guy. Hollywood Manhatten Project Berlin Airlift Assembly line production(it even works for food!) Civil War Revolutionary War War of 1812 WWI WWII Melting Pot Manifest Destiny
Worst: Trail of Tears Japanese Internment Slavery Great Depression Deplacement of Natives(Although the French-Indian War and War of 1812 are factors, in both wars natives fought against the colonies and later the US). Prohibition Hollywood Chicago and any Illinois politician
I don't think that US messed up as much as other places, but when it did mess up it messed up big time. Quantity over quality.
The worst:
1. One of the original members (and thus founders) of the EU.
2. Original founders of New York...
3. WWII, look it up, it's just emberassing
4. Invented stock markets and Traffic enforcement camera's.
5. Discovered bacteria.
Why is discovering bacteria bad? the discovery has led to things like penicillin that can help cure disease. just because something has not been discovered does not mean it does not exist...
also, stock markets are bad? stock markets are one of the main reasons that businesses are able to function on the scale that they do, so im a little confused on that one as well.
New york is a cool city, wouldnt want to live there but alot goes on there.
overall, your worst for nederland left me
also, i plan on taking dutch next year in college and studying abroad in utrecht my junior year's summer!
*This entire post is supposed to be a joke. A send up of American stereotypes. Calm down.
Had me a bit pissed off there for a sec
Best achievements:
Helped out a lot in world war 2
Had a successful revolution then stabilized quickly (Except for the civil war I guess)
(mostly) free speech
NASA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! and everything it has done except the stuff that asplodered.
Worst achievements:
Had our @$$es handed to us in the Vietnam war
A lot of us are fat
The south
Religious nuts (Yeah I know there are religious nuts everywhere)
We think we have to make everyone a democracy
The south again
American cheese is disgusting
We killed a lot of indians.
Fox News
Segregation
Slavery
I live in the south, so I know firsthand
LordofHats wrote:...Massive contributions to the concepts of logistics and force projection...
This is largely true for force projection as it allows you to win wars without ever firing a shot.
Not just that but the ability to exert military power over large areas. The Britis were the masters prior to the dawn of the 20th Century, but by WWII the US overtook them. Britain never managed to move millions of tons of manpower and material across three thousand miles of ocean and land it on about 70 miles of beach.
In warfare, that's logistical act of god (to turn of colorful phrase).
Vietnam and Korea are grey areas, all the NVA had to do was make the american people feel badly about the war and we lost. The Tet Offensive was one of the worst series of fights for the NVA and guerrillas, but it did its job, once the american people saw footage of US soldiers dieing in the streets they had enough.
Also, the south provides agriculture along with the midwest. Not to mention the number of homes for the powers that be, Langley for example is the home of the CIA and located in the south. Then there's Fort Knox in Tennessee which is also in the south and home to a tank training facility. Then there's the uniformed fellows who march in the inaugeration parade from Virginia Military Institute, which is kind of prestigious you know.
I think you mean deep south, which is more of a mind set and not an actual location seeing as though deep south syndrome affects relatively isolated locations.
Albatross wrote:I would say that the massive cultural influence that Ireland has had, and continues to have, is a fairly amazing achievement. There would be no rock 'n' roll, for example without Irish traditional music. No blues, no gospel, no modern folk music, no John Lennon, no Paul McCartney.... and that's just pop music. What about literature? Acting?
What about Guinness?!??
I'm not sure if maybe it was a joke, but I'm just really curious what Irish folk music has to do with black slave music from the southern US.
Achievements:
- insulin
- Vimy ridge
- Juno beach
- all of those Heritage Moments commercials pretty much cover it (Canadians will know what I'm talking about).
Failures:
- for some reason Anglos and Francophones still can't get along? Ridiculous. Canada does very poorly with recognizing it's multicultural heritage.
- all Canadian pop music except for the Tragically Hip, Neil Young, and the Guess Who.
- still having a Governor-General. It's the 21st century, for crying out loud.
halonachos wrote:
Vietnam and Korea are grey areas, all the NVA had to do was make the american people feel badly about the war and we lost. The Tet Offensive was one of the worst series of fights for the NVA and guerrillas, but it did its job, once the american people saw footage of US soldiers dieing in the streets they had enough.
Korea isn't really a gray area, it was a pretty clear victory, albeit North Korea would probably not exist today had MacArthur stopped after taking Pyongyang.
Vietnam wasn't really a gray area either. Regardless of whether or not our forces performed well at a tactical level, the war was a strategic failure.
Vietnam and Korea are grey areas, all the NVA had to do was make the american people feel badly about the war and we lost. The Tet Offensive was one of the worst series of fights for the NVA and guerrillas, but it did its job, once the american people saw footage of US soldiers dieing in the streets they had enough.
Also, the south provides agriculture along with the midwest. Not to mention the number of homes for the powers that be, Langley for example is the home of the CIA and located in the south. Then there's Fort Knox in Tennessee which is also in the south and home to a tank training facility. Then there's the uniformed fellows who march in the inaugeration parade from Virginia Military Institute, which is kind of prestigious you know.
I think you mean deep south, which is more of a mind set and not an actual location seeing as though deep south syndrome affects relatively isolated locations.
Best:
* William Shakespeare
* Winston Churchill
* Sir Isaac Newton
* Charles Darwin
* The Beatles
* Black Sabbath
* Led Zeppelin
* Pink Floyd
* Alexander Fleming
* The British Empire
* The Battle of Britain
* Waterloo
Worst:
* Manchester United
* Ultramarines
* The British Empire
* Margaret Thatcher
* The BNP
Korea isn't really a gray area, it was a pretty clear victory, albeit North Korea would probably not exist today had MacArthur stopped after taking Pyongyang.
Vietnam wasn't really a gray area either. Regardless of whether or not our forces performed well at a tactical level, the war was a strategic failure.
Well, given that the Korean War pretty much ended status quo ante bellum, you could describe it as a stalemate. North Korea itself was soundly defeated, but after the Chinese intervention, the UN forces basically only achieved a stalemate. However, the Korean War was still a strategic victory for the UN. The UN forces achieved their objective of maintaining the independence of South Korea, and the DPRK failed to take over South Korea.
Vietnam was, as you said, a massive strategic failure on the US's part.
halonachos wrote:Vietnam and Korea are grey areas, all the NVA had to do was make the american people feel badly about the war and we lost. The Tet Offensive was one of the worst series of fights for the NVA and guerrillas, but it did its job, once the american people saw footage of US soldiers dieing in the streets they had enough.
You had ten years to win in Vietnam. While the US soldiers were tactically superior, they were incapable of defeating revolutionary forces in the South entirely, or preventing troops moving in from the North. If you can't do that in ten years, it's pretty unlikely you'll ever be able to do it. Consider that in the light of Afghanistan today.
Also, the south provides agriculture along with the midwest. Not to mention the number of homes for the powers that be, Langley for example is the home of the CIA and located in the south. Then there's Fort Knox in Tennessee which is also in the south and home to a tank training facility. Then there's the uniformed fellows who march in the inaugeration parade from Virginia Military Institute, which is kind of prestigious you know.
When government places national centres are placed away from the capital, it is to create employment in areas that are otherwise struggling for employment. Langley isn't in Virgnia because only Virginia could possibly build an administration for the nation's spies...
Albatross wrote:I would say that the massive cultural influence that Ireland has had, and continues to have, is a fairly amazing achievement. There would be no rock 'n' roll, for example without Irish traditional music. No blues, no gospel, no modern folk music, no John Lennon, no Paul McCartney.... and that's just pop music. What about literature? Acting?
What about Guinness?!??
I'm not sure if maybe it was a joke, but I'm just really curious what Irish folk music has to do with black slave music from the southern US.
So-called 'black slave music' has its roots in the devotional music and folk traditions of the British Isles, in addition, of course, to the African griot tradition, and west African music in general. Christianity played a massive role in the early culture of African-Americans, and it is particularly in the churches that the acculturation of British, Irish and African styles takes place, as well as in the fields. There are some early blues songs that can be traced back to early English broadside ballad themes - these, in fact, inform more or less all songs written in the English language today. Also, early gospel music is massively influenced by traditional Irish 'airs' in terms of melody.
ChrisWWII wrote:
Well, given that the Korean War pretty much ended status quo ante bellum, you could describe it as a stalemate. North Korea itself was soundly defeated, but after the Chinese intervention, the UN forces basically only achieved a stalemate. However, the Korean War was still a strategic victory for the UN. The UN forces achieved their objective of maintaining the independence of South Korea, and the DPRK failed to take over South Korea.
In general I don't think its reasonable to think of individual wars as victories or defeats outside of the strategic context, which is why I classify Korea as a clear victory. Sure, there's still a de facto state of war, but the reality is that such a fact would be appreciated as a technicality in any historical account of the hostilities between North and South if open war ever came about again.
ChrisWWII wrote:
Vietnam was, as you said, a massive strategic failure on the US's part.
It also exposed the foolishness of thinking in terms of communists vs. capitalists. For whatever reason, there was this pervasive idea that the communist bloc was somehow more contiguous than NATO, which lead a lot of US planners to ignore not only the divisions inside the USSR, but also the fact that China wasn't a part of the USSR.
metallifan wrote:I'd like to add to Cheesecat's earlier Canada list and mention Bob and Doug McKenzie
Oh Take Off!
Automatically Appended Next Post:
sebster wrote:
halonachos wrote:Vietnam and Korea are grey areas, all the NVA had to do was make the american people feel badly about the war and we lost. The Tet Offensive was one of the worst series of fights for the NVA and guerrillas, but it did its job, once the american people saw footage of US soldiers dieing in the streets they had enough.
You had ten years to win in Vietnam. While the US soldiers were tactically superior, they were incapable of defeating revolutionary forces in the South entirely, or preventing troops moving in from the North. If you can't do that in ten years, it's pretty unlikely you'll ever be able to do it. Consider that in the light of Afghanistan today.
Also, the south provides agriculture along with the midwest. Not to mention the number of homes for the powers that be, Langley for example is the home of the CIA and located in the south. Then there's Fort Knox in [/b]Kentucky[b] which is also in the south and home to a tank training facility. Then there's the uniformed fellows who march in the inaugeration parade from Virginia Military Institute, which is kind of prestigious you know.
When government places national centres are placed away from the capital, it is to create employment in areas that are otherwise struggling for employment. Langley isn't in Virgnia because only Virginia could possibly build an administration for the nation's spies...
I would disagree, our biggest obstacle was fighting to win "hearts and minds". Tet was not a huge defeat for the US, it was a colossal disaster for the NVA as they had almost 45,000 killed and over 111,000 casualties in a matter of 7-8 months. It was portrayed as a Northern victory by the likes of Walter Cronkite who used the first TV coverage of a war to his political advantage and influenced lots of people here in to believing that we were losing. I will say the the South's government was incredibly corrupt, but much like most countries we've supported since 1945, it's the old way of thinking that: the enemy of my enemy is my friend.
Considering we had OSS advisors in Vietnam as early as 1939 I think we'd had plenty of time. It was a matter of wielding the right tools and not allowing arbitrary rules to play into a fight between a guerilla force and a legitimate standing army. Guerillas, combatants and partisans can still be executed under the 4th Geneva accords. We are fighting the Taliban today with damn kid gloves, just like we did in Vietnam. It's ludicrous to play fair when one side doesn't.
I wouldn't consider the Afghani's as great fighters either. The British left because it's usefulness had run it's course and it was a logistical nightmare to supply. The Russians saw that their puppet government wasn't very strong and tried to fix it, then failed in doing so and proceeded to carpet bomb multiple cities and wasted lots of time doing nothing there except patrol and clean out nests of Mujahadeen. This proceeded to anger more Muslims around the globe and only strengthened anti-USSR sentiment around the globe. We're trying to build it up and leave but most of the citizenry is too far gone down an unreachable path of antipathy for the west (I can't really blame them either).
Mr. Self Destruct wrote:
GERMANY!
As 95% ethnic German:
+Politicians
no, just nooooooo
must be the missing 5%....
Politicians are the worst you can find here.
I dunno man, you chaps have had worse politicians in the past, compared to now...
Stormrider wrote:We are fighting the Taliban today with damn kid gloves, just like we did in Vietnam. It's ludicrous to play fair when one side doesn't.
...Are you sure? We (that is, the Allies) are assassinating Taliban leader as a matter of course, and not just in Afghanistan. And THAT is at the same time as trying to open up a political dialogue with them. I wouldn't call that 'kid gloves' or 'playing fair', not that I neccesarily disagree with those tactics, mind. The Taliban have been malleted over the last decade or so - that isn't the problem. The problem is keeping the locals onside long enough to actually make a difference - the more of them caught up in the violence, the greater the resentment grows, and the more young lads who flock to the Taliban. Or at least, that's my take on it.
dajobe wrote:There is only one team in Manchester!!!(manu is in salford)
-All I need to do is post this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scottish_inventions Try and see just how many people could live without in the modern era.
-Free University Education. -Down to earth people.
-All I need to do is post this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scottish_inventions Try and see just how many people could live without in the modern era.
-Free University Education. -Down to earth people.
Cons:
-No independence.
I'll add one
Pros- In certain events men can wear skirts because of the scots
-Scotch
Cons-Seeing hairy men wearing skirts.....
-When was the last time they won a war?
We haven't won a war on our own; but much of the success of the British empire in battle was due to having Scots in charge of many of its significant battles; which we happened to win. From all sorts of battles, such as the Indian uprising.
We haven't won a war on our own; but much of the success of the British empire in battle was due to having Scots in charge of many of its significant battles; which we happened to win. From all sorts of battles, such as the Indian uprising.
Asherian Command wrote:
Worst Achievements..... Oh dear....
Hunted down the Aborigines
Kinda Racist
Boomerang politics
Ridicilious taxes
Stupid pointless racism
The Satirist's of the world.
Make lots of jokes when they are not needed
Horrible Military (ITs pathetic they only have 150 planes. what the hell.....)
Their Health, they are not up to date with cancer treatment.
i feel like i have to correct some of this:
-technically, it was the British who hunted down the natives, we just are the generation that inherited the blame (but yes, it's still one of australia's darkest hours)
-Australia doesn't really need a large military force, considering they are only being used to improve relationship with the US/UN - and i think the term "quality not quantity" comes into play (even though our equipment is gak in comparison to the US, training of the personnel is pretty spot on).
i feel like i have to correct some of this:
-technically, it was the British who hunted down the natives, we just are the generation that inherited the blame (but yes, it's still one of australia's darkest hours)
-Australia doesn't really need a large military force, considering they are only being used to improve relationship with the US/UN - and i think the term "quality not quantity" comes into play (even though our equipment is gak in comparison to the US, training of the personnel is pretty spot on).
rest is solid.
Well no country is great without a genocide in its history......and I think training for AU troops is pretty much same as most NATO nations.
The worst:
1. One of the original members (and thus founders) of the EU.
2. Original founders of New York...
3. WWII, look it up, it's just emberassing
4. Invented stock markets and Traffic enforcement camera's.
5. Discovered bacteria.
Why is discovering bacteria bad? the discovery has led to things like penicillin that can help cure disease. just because something has not been discovered does not mean it does not exist...
also, stock markets are bad? stock markets are one of the main reasons that businesses are able to function on the scale that they do, so im a little confused on that one as well.
New york is a cool city, wouldnt want to live there but alot goes on there.
overall, your worst for nederland left me
also, i plan on taking dutch next year in college and studying abroad in utrecht my junior year's summer!
How did the slave thing not tell you that there was plenty of sarcasm in there?
Also, good luck learning the Dutch language, speaking it is one thing, but the grammer.. ugh.. I'm better at English. Our language has 5000 rules, and each rule has 5000 exceptions (over exagerating if your not aware). Good luck with your G's
.)
