Hi, I'm new to Lizardmen and In my 2000 point army I am taking a Slaan with some temple guard, the aim of my army is to be attacking based, here is the list so far:

Lords:

Slaan 300
Focus of Rumination, BSB

Core:

25 Sarus 305
Full Command

25 Saurus 305
Full Command

Special:

20 Temple Guard 355
Full Command

I will base the rest of my list depending on what the Slaan would be, I would like to add some salamanders to each flank as I have been told that they are great flank protectors and are good at attacking on the flank.

Also, Any Tips for the list?

why do you have champions for your saurus but not for your temple guard?

Tiarna Fuilteach wrote:why do you have champions for your saurus but not for your temple guard?

Added Now.

If you want your army to be offensive, than I would suggest the Lore of Light. Birona's Timewarp (boosted version) will allow your 3 main combat blocks to move forward a lot faster. Additionally, Birona's Timewarp and Speed of Light are spells that boost your offensive capabilities as well as your defensive ones. Lore of Life on the other hand, has all defensive buffs (Flesh to Stone, Earthblood, Regrowth).

Salamanders are a great choice, definately add them. Skink Skirmishers could be used to defend them from the opponent's harassment units, such as Shades and Gutter Runners.

You will also need some harassment units of your own to deal with Warmachines or hunt solo Wizards. Chameleon Skinks and Terradon Riders are both excellent at this job.

Finally, you may want to consider adding a cheap Scar-Veteran or two to your main combat blocks. You will need them to help your Saurus Warriors against stronger combat units (mainly those with high Thoughness or good Armour Saves). Standard gear is Light Armour and Great Weapon.

Airmaniac wrote:Lore of Life on the other hand, has all defensive buffs (Flesh to Stone, Earthblood, Regrowth).

Dwellers Bellow?

Ralin Givens wrote:

Airmaniac wrote:Lore of Life on the other hand, has all defensive buffs (Flesh to Stone, Earthblood, Regrowth).

Dwellers Bellow?

Really though?

If you got yourself a Loremaster Slann I would take Life over light anyday

Life is disgustingly effective, it brings the slann into line with the fluff where even the lowliest slann could topple mountains, since i don't play lizardmen thank god only mazdamundi is left of the first two slann generations and the corpse god emperor i mean kroak

Ralin Givens wrote:If you got yourself a Loremaster Slann I would take Life over light anyday

But I am looking for a very Attacking Slaan Magwe Priest as he will be with Temple Guard and with Saurus blocks to either side. I would like these to be able to perform really well in combat with spells such as the speed of light, while Life will add to my already tough units I am looking for an Attacking army rather than defensive as most of the armies I collect in 40K are defensive

Light doesn't get you into combat that much quicker.
Without timewarp.
March, March, charge. (unless enemy moved at you).
With Timewarp
March, then cast timewarp, march, charge. (unless the enemy moved at you).

Unless you're going for the long charge (more than 16"), and hoping to roll a 9+ on 2D6, time warp or no, you're in combat on turn 3.

I like the less used lores.
Heavens is pretty good (-1 to be hit, -1Ld), comet, pushing enemies around, and a good number of high strength hits. The bonus hits on fliers really can help against those annoying things that a slow build like this will struggle against.
Death will assassinate enemy characters and wizards, letting your rank and file go toe to toe with their rank and file; which is a contest you usually win. Soul blight makes that contest pretty one sided.

-Matt

There are so many awesome tactics with the Slann. It all depends on who you are playing. To be honest my last 5 games I haven't taken temple guard, they are so freaking expensive, I'd rather have a couple of horde units of Saurus blocks with full command options. Here go some basic tactics though with your Slann, the down side is that when you rely on Magic and get really crappy rolls or the Slann dies, you are pretty much done for.

1) Life slann
-ability to resurrect dead models, buff the heck outta your models, and cause some damage.
-dwellers below is one of the most powerful spells in the game because it affects the whole unit and does not use a template (so no look out sir roll)

2) Death Slann
-basically you can wipe out all the enemy's characters if you got good rolls. A lot of death magic doesn't have a strength value so no reverse ward save, lots of it doesn't allow for any saves
-keep your slaan in the back since death magic is short ranged and channel through skinks

3) Light Slann
- WS and I 10 are huge for lizards
-time warp is nice
- to be honest I found light magic to be less effective overall

4) Ethereal Slann (don't place him with a unit)
- give magic resistance
- give regeneration
- put slann on own but keep him with in 6 inches of units for look out sir rolls
- channel through skinks and annoy the piss outta your opponent
- this is a discipline so you can use this tactic with any lore, I think it is awesome with Death Magic

5) Metal Slann
- really only good against Warrior of Chaos since they have ridiculous armor saves. Wipe units of knights on a 2+
- found Metal to be not that useful over all

6) Fire
- only used it against wood elves for obvious reasons

I think the best two options for you are Life and Death, but that is just my opinion. It really sucks that Skinks can only use Heavens since I find it to be a not that good Lore.

Depending on points and who I am playing against I typically field 2 to 4 giant blocks of saruas warriors with shields, spears, full command. several units of skirmishing skink skirmishers so they can march up and unload with the 2x poisoned blow pipes. I have had units of 10-20 skinks wipe war machines and heavy cavalry because of all the poisoned attacks hitting on 6s. Then a few units of skinks with level 1 shamans, cube of darkness, dispell scroll, maybe a feedback scroll. A unit of salamanders, maybe an ancient stegadon. Chameleon skinks are super awesome for their points.

I have probably 8,000+ points of Lizardmen models. I had 2500 to 3000 from back in the day (4th edition) and then bought this guys complete unfinished collection for a couple hundred bucks and he had so much stuff. I would really like to field an old blood on a carnosaur (hell I have three of them) but I can never seem to justify take that Lord over my Slann. Life is a good place to start, but it gets boring quick and miscasts can destroy your temple guard. Also, halberds negate the usage of shields and with very low initiative you will always take casualties first. Which is why I like taking the regular Saurus blocks over, getting the horde bonus because they cost 10pts per a model. I also have like 20 cold ones but hardly ever field them, and I never bothered every buying any of the Terradons (flying cavalry) because they look pretty weak and pointless for their point cost.

I don't use any special characters at all either.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

GoDz BuZzSaW wrote:

Ralin Givens wrote:

Airmaniac wrote:Lore of Life on the other hand, has all defensive buffs (Flesh to Stone, Earthblood, Regrowth).

Dwellers Bellow?

Really though?

Yeah, really, STR test or die. No template, no str value, no saves, no look out sir, you die. Obviously not that great against high STR armies but most things will die on a 4+.

Even against high strength armies its still good. Most are expensive or have multiple wounds (orgres, woc) and its still one of the best things against chosen. Basically the only unit i can think of right now that its bad against is bloodletters (relatively cheap need 6s).

Also the reason light i think is relatively good is that it saves lizardmen from the dreaded auto loose spell that is initiative based tests . Nothing like having i10 instead of i1, or i2.

tiekwando wrote:Even against high strength armies its still good. Most are expensive or have multiple wounds (orgres, woc) and its still one of the best things against chosen. Basically the only unit i can think of right now that its bad against is bloodletters (relatively cheap need 6s).

Also the reason light i think is relatively good is that it saves lizardmen from the dreaded auto loose spell that is initiative based tests . Nothing like having i10 instead of i1, or i2.

Pit of shades? It is template based so you get look out sir, and if you have life magic you can resurrect your dudes. Light magic isn't all that great when I used it. I think the top two magics to use with Slann is Life and Death. Just my opinion though.

I should start with this, I think life is the best choice, now back to what I really want to say

Crom wrote:

tiekwando wrote:Even against high strength armies its still good. Most are expensive or have multiple wounds (orgres, woc) and its still one of the best things against chosen. Basically the only unit i can think of right now that its bad against is bloodletters (relatively cheap need 6s).

Also the reason light i think is relatively good is that it saves lizardmen from the dreaded auto loose spell that is initiative based tests . Nothing like having i10 instead of i1, or i2.

Pit of shades? It is template based so you get look out sir, and if you have life magic you can resurrect your dudes. Light magic isn't all that great when I used it. I think the top two magics to use with Slann is Life and Death. Just my opinion though.

I was actually talking about purple sun, though pit of shades will do a number as well but isn't as game changing as dwellers. Purple sun on the other hand can literally destroy half an army, an even though you will have LOS it doesnt matter when a vampire flies up and casts an IF purple sun which takes the majority of 2-3 blocks of models. And it nicely fills you back up to 12 pd in a hurry which means you can kill characters with the other death spells.

Anyways I have seen light do pretty well it just depends on the army imho. just a quick guide to light

Sig spell: k d6 s4 fire missile, pretty boring, boosting up to s6 is meh. Good against undead and decent against daemons however. Also useful if your skinks are about to shoot a regenerating monster, as he looses regen.

Phas- well its cheap, even the bubble spell is relatively inexpensive and -1 to hit on most of your units means that they wont be doing a whole lot to you in the shooting phase. CC it makes most/all enemies hit about as often as our saurus (thus a pretty big advantage)

Speed of Light- One of my favorites as explained above, plus it acts as a -1 to hit for the enemy and saurus strike first. Against ws 4 opponents it acts as -2 to hit! Against enemies with ASF (HE) it gets rids of their re-rolls which can make a huge difference (sword masters/white lions hit 1/2 the time instead of 8/9). Again relatively cheap and can bubble

Light of Battle- with coldblooded and ld9 and probably bsb lizardmen dont get as much out of this spell as other races. Still good to be able to count on something. Especially when your about to be multicharged

Net of Amyntoc- One of my favorite spells ever! Cheap to cast and so useful. Cast on a mages unit to make them sweat everytime they have to cast a spell. Cast on warmachines to autostop them (and cause d6 s4 hits if your opponent forgets). Obviously better against some armies, but can find a use against most

Banishment- a meh spell, 2d6 s4 is nothing special. Re-rolling wards is situational at best, as most characters will not be able to be targeted. Really good against undead and absolutely amazing against daemons. 3d6 with them re-rolling their ward saves is tough to beat. Otherwise good against fast cav, skirmishers the typical stuff that mm are good against.

Bironas Timewarp- get into combat one turn earlier, can cast to give +1 attack to front rank, when combined with speed of light gives re-rolls to hit (on 3s no less).

Pros: generally cheap, reduces the weaknesses of our combat troops, 3 out of 7 spells can effect more than one unit

Cons: no real killer spell, buffs are not as powerful as Flesh to Stone.

Overall: its advantage over life is that while each buff may not be as good (although in the right circumstances speed of light can be almost as good as flesh t stone) it can effect multiple units.

The most common Lizardmen armies are heavily based around Saurus (and a TG block), which imo makes Light and Life the two best choices. You either make your Saurus go first or make them so tank that they don't care about going last. Death is almost purely offensive magic and is a truly terrible choice if you are running your Slann with Temple Guard (Purple Sun is yet another way to instantly lose the game by blowing up your own Slann + TG unit). Death does not have any magic missiles, which means you actually can't cast anything through Skink Priests, which in turns means getting your Slann up close if you want to use it (which I shouldn't have to point out isn't a great idea).

Metal is definitely not only good against Warriors of Chaos, it is incredible against anything with good armour saves and pretty much every army includes at least one such unit. It's a good mix of damage, augments and hexes. In a Skink heavy list it is incredible, you already have an insane number of poisoned shots which means you only real weakness is units with good armour. It also includes Glittering Robe, which makes your Skinks significantly harder to kill in return.

Ethereal Slann are fun though, giving him Magic Resistance is ok (although it only needs to be MR2 as MR3 is wasted) but giving him Regen is a complete waste because he already has a ward save. I find it easier just to include a unit of Skink Skirmishers for the Slann to join if he needs to, he can only be targeted by magical attacks (which is pretty rare for shooting outside of Dwarf cannons) or magic (and if you take MR only the mega spells are an issue really) so there isn't much point going too far to keep him alive. Even a non Ethereal Slann is pretty hard to kill sitting behind his lines inside a unit of Skinks (LOS and 4+ ward against cannons, same as TG).

The one lore which no one has mentioned is Shadow, which imo is a pretty awesome Lore for Slann as well. Its an easy one to ignore when you are using Slann with TG because the Lore attribute does nothing for you, but is great if you stop taking TG. I've found the hardest things for Lizards to deal with are high toughness (depends on how many Blowpipes you have) and/or well armoured units. Saurus can smash most rank and file even without buffs and just need a fairly easy to cast buff like Speed of Light to take on any infantry in the game, but are still only S4 so aren't going to kill monsters or cavalry very well. Shadow has a multiple Hexes which can cripple large deathstar units which show up all over the place (5+ to cast to reduce you to movement 1-2 is insane), two damage spells which are great against big tough stuff and one clearly game changing augment. The Lore attribute and Steed of Shadows also combine well with Scar Vets, who are cheap but pack a heavy punch. I would always take Light or Life first because buffs to the Saurus are more important imo, but if you are running double Slann (which is easily possible at 2500) then Light + Shadow is pretty nasty and you don't have as many issues running out of dice with Rumination.

Yowza. Here's my two cents: Unless you can really bring some good miscast protection, I think a Slann in Temple Guard is really risking things by not taking Life. Miscasts can really gouge that unit terribly at the worst time.

And if you go Temple Guard, Death lore Slann, steer clear of the Purple Sun!

That being said, I fully support the taking of lesser seen lores!

Real quick:

You want something to smash face with? I'd consider Shadow. It does a lot of what Life does, in reverse, making your opponent crappier. You don't get Dwellers, but you do get Pit and Pendulum, which are good spells.
If you leave Temple Guard at home, going with a Ghost-shadow Slann, you can swap places with some Scar-Vets to get those S7 attacks where you need them, and/or your Slann out of where he could get hurt.

Also:

- never ever give a Slann Regeneration. You get that or a Ward save, not both. So...you get your Ward save.
- always give him Focused Rumination and Becalming Cogitation. Basically always. They're so, so good. So stupidly good.

Ralin Givens wrote:

Airmaniac wrote:Lore of Life on the other hand, has all defensive buffs (Flesh to Stone, Earthblood, Regrowth).

Dwellers Bellow?

I believe the OP mentioned something about wanting an offensive army. I don't think the Lore of Life with all the defensive buffs, and yes Dwellers, fits that at all. Dwellers doesn't make an offensive army. On the contrary, Dwellers fits a defensive play style a lot more since you are just going to sit back and fire Dwellers...

I don't have my own Copies of the Lores but It seems that I am tied between Life, Light, Shadow and Death. Could Life still work with an offensive army? It makes sure that a lot of my guys could get into combat and when they are in there they could survive a lot (After Vines Temple Guard T8!!!) Plus the Life Lore would stop me from miscasting and effecting my Temple Guard.

Another question, I thought you would have to choose your lore before you decide which opponent to play, as with 40K Powers, otherwise this does make it a sort of 'Anti List' In Terms of magic and I hate Anti Lists!

Certainly it could still work, but other than Dwellers your magic isn't going to be killing much directly which is why its generally considered a defensive lore (even more so than Light, which at least has Augments which boost your killing power significantly). Certainly you will be hitting back most of the time, its just that you still only get 6 turns. That just means you need plenty of units which can actually kill stuff quickly and Lizards have plenty of hard hitters. With Life you can get the most out of the Lore Attribute by taking plenty of multi wound models, Krox (probably with Skinks so you can take them as core), Scar Vets and Stegadons. Of course the most common unit to see with a Life Slann is a big unit of TG, which forms a massive (effectively) unbreakable rock in the middle of your list which doesn't have to worry about the Slann exploding and killing most of the unit.

In 7th Lore selection worked like that, but in 8th your Lore is chosen at list construction which means you actually have to put some thought into your lore choice. Technically some 40k powers are chosen before the game starts, but in tournaments its mostly done the same way as Fantasy and you write down the ones you will use for the entire tournament on your list when you submit it.

Here's my breakdown for death magic.

Not in combat, at range:
Soul Leech: Ld9, snipe warmachines and wizards, boosted range is 24"
The Caress: 2D6 - target str hits, boosted is 24"

When in combat:
Soul Blight: -1Str -1To all enemies within 24".
Doom and Darkness: -3 leadership! 24"/48" range.

Cheap bonus effect:
Aspect of the Dreadknight: 4+ to cast to cause fear, 9+ for terror. Can be useful (especially when combined with doom and darkness).

Rarely used spells, tends to scare opponents.
Purple Sun. Really good, but ~1 in 18 successful castings will kill the Slaan. I would only feel safe casting if I were in a building.
The Fate: 2D6 (-To) hits that wounds on 2's sounds really good, but with no option to boost for range, this tends to be more of a threat than actually getting a shot off.

if the few games I have played as of late, Light is a LM armies best friend if tooled up right to take full advantage of it.

game 1 2k LM vs 2k OK, the OK player literally sat on charge range, as each turn I casted Speed of Light for my entire army. he didn't want to risk sending his orges up against my WS/I 10 Lizards, who did get ahold of a few units, and even that character with the sabertooth cats, was butchered to a no more than 6-10 lizards in exchange. the only reason I lost was I had forgotten that Light of Speed also effect the unit the slann was in, and they got bulldozed by the Lord and his thinned out unit.

Game 2k LM vs 2k Dwarves, this game was absolute hell for both of us, I had an Engine of the gods, and I keep threatening his army with other spells, forcing him to dispel them, which let Pha's Protection through, so all BS dependent ranged weapon got -1 to hit, and for Cannons and other ranged attacks that don't use BS its 4+ or it fails. add this up with the Engine's buff of a 5+ ward save on all my blocks of Warriors, marching over, in three turns I lost a mere 5 or 6 warriors to the Dwarf shooting.

now I can see life having its uses, in a defensive army, or low model count army.

with only 81 bodies on the table, OP you should go for Life though why go so few bodies, in my 2k list I am packing 71 Warriors, and thats just my core. I would look to expand your army, maybe lighten the points on the slann a little?

Airmaniac wrote:

Ralin Givens wrote:

Airmaniac wrote:Lore of Life on the other hand, has all defensive buffs (Flesh to Stone, Earthblood, Regrowth).

Dwellers Bellow?

I believe the OP mentioned something about wanting an offensive army. I don't think the Lore of Life with all the defensive buffs, and yes Dwellers, fits that at all. Dwellers doesn't make an offensive army. On the contrary, Dwellers fits a defensive play style a lot more since you are just going to sit back and fire Dwellers...

Offensive is subjective though, while light boosts abilitys by enhancing stats, life boosts by making everything hard to kill as apposed to flinging attacks or killing HQ's Dwellers is just the ultimate ability to, during the singlar occation where nuking is preferable to making near hard to kill.

Thanks for all the comments guys, based on what you have reccomended, I think I will go for Lore Of Life, I really like the +4 Toughness after you cast thornes and the Save against miscasts, can a Life Slaan work with TG? Increasing the Toughness by 4 would make them a real powerhouse unit and it is unlikely a miscast will occur.

Can a life slann work with TG? Thats his whole purpose pretty much.

Ive had a unit of salamanders hold up swordmasters using Flesh to Stone.. Its really amazing what lore of life can do for you

Buff up a unit of saurus, send them at the enemy with shield of thorns. If they multicharge you they're taking 2d6 S4 hits for every unit engaged (Assuming you have throne of vines up which you should)

Cast regrowth as one of your last spells so your enemy has already used dispel dice.. Being able to bring back your TG is huge

As Kirasu said: it's not a matter of whether or not a Life Slann "works with Temple Guard"; that's a given. That's the standard. Everyone does it, because it's awesome.

Most people will tell you that Life is a lore where you want all the spells, and so need a Loremaster Slann. I think you can get by with five spells (Plaque of Tepok), or maybe even the regular ol' four.
The Cupped Hand of the Old Ones is a must-have in a lot of opinions, though Life sort of lessens the dire need for it, if you get Throne.

Garuss Acine wrote:if the few games I have played as of late, Light is a LM armies best friend if tooled up right to take full advantage of it.

game 1 2k LM vs 2k OK, the OK player literally sat on charge range, as each turn I casted Speed of Light for my entire army. he didn't want to risk sending his orges up against my WS/I 10 Lizards, who did get ahold of a few units, and even that character with the sabertooth cats, was butchered to a no more than 6-10 lizards in exchange. the only reason I lost was I had forgotten that Light of Speed also effect the unit the slann was in, and they got bulldozed by the Lord and his thinned out unit.

Game 2k LM vs 2k Dwarves, this game was absolute hell for both of us, I had an Engine of the gods, and I keep threatening his army with other spells, forcing him to dispel them, which let Pha's Protection through, so all BS dependent ranged weapon got -1 to hit, and for Cannons and other ranged attacks that don't use BS its 4+ or it fails. add this up with the Engine's buff of a 5+ ward save on all my blocks of Warriors, marching over, in three turns I lost a mere 5 or 6 warriors to the Dwarf shooting.

now I can see life having its uses, in a defensive army, or low model count army.

with only 81 bodies on the table, OP you should go for Life though why go so few bodies, in my 2k list I am packing 71 Warriors, and thats just my core. I would look to expand your army, maybe lighten the points on the slann a little?

Just curious how you can speed of light your whole army? I think that spell only targets a single unit? I play lizards and ogres and you can build some nasty Tyrants that have like 8 to 9 attacks in hand to hand and they will wipe 6+ TG or Suarus per a round of combat, and that is just the lord.




Also, remember Slann can channel through the skink priests. So short range death magic is effective when you march all your cheap level 1 skink pirests up, plus when you have 4 wizards on the table you are rolling 4 D6 for channeling more power dice each magic phase. Then give one skink the cube of darkness and another a dispell scroll, feedback scroll, etc. This way you can dominate over enemy mages, and you can march your skink priests up in range to channel death magic. Against someone like Dark Elves death is great because their mages are a pain in the ass. They also have that really stupid reverse ward save, so anything that doesn't have a STR value to hit is great.


Like I said, it highly depends on who you are playing against. Against an army that can dish out combat, like WoC, OK, Life Magic is great because those armies will whoop you in hand to hand, but you can keep bringing dudes back to life. Remember the lore attribute allows you to restore a single wound to any model with in 12" of the Slann. So, if you make him Ethereal and have him with in 12" of several units you can restore life to lots of things, plus if the Slann is the battle standard you also give your units rerolls.

Kirasu wrote:Can a life slann work with TG? Thats his whole purpose pretty much.

Ive had a unit of salamanders hold up swordmasters using Flesh to Stone.. Its really amazing what lore of life can do for you

Buff up a unit of saurus, send them at the enemy with shield of thorns. If they multicharge you they're taking 2d6 S4 hits for every unit engaged (Assuming you have throne of vines up which you should)

Cast regrowth as one of your last spells so your enemy has already used dispel dice.. Being able to bring back your TG is huge

I say this because at my FLGS, People have told me not to take a Slaan with TG due to miscast effects, I know with Lore Of Life though, even if i miscast throne when I cast it, I will get a 2+ save from it!

In 2000 points i'm going to stick Salamanders as my rare choice and put them on either flank, I'm going to make a list tonight and see what I can come up with

A couple of questions:

Do salamanders work in a unit, I don't really want to make them go solo, even with the -1 to hit them I think they will die pretty easily, I was thinking 2 squads of 3, one on either flank, though i'll be missing out on an ancient steg

What would you suggest I fill the rest of my points on from this list? :


2011/07/06 08:10:10 Subject: Slaan - Lore Of Life or Light?
Hi, I'm new to Lizardmen and In my 2000 point army I am taking a Slaan with some temple guard, the aim of my army is to be attacking based, here is the list so far:

Lords:

Slaan 300
Focus of Rumination, BSB

Core:

20 Saurus 250
Full Command

20 Saurus 250
Full Command

Special:

20 Temple Guard 355
Full Command

1155/2000

here is something I whipped up

2000 Pts - Lizardmen Roster

Slaan Mage-Priest (1#, 495 pts)
1 Slann Mage-Priest (Battle Standard Bearer), 495 pts (General; Battle Standard Bearer)
1 Cupped Hands of the Old Ones
1 Focus of Mystery
1 Higher State of Consciousness
1 The Becalming Cogitation
1 The Focused Rumination

Skinks (10#, 50 pts)
10 Skinks, 50 pts (Hand Weapon; Javelin & Shield; Aquatic)

Skink Skirmishers (10#, 70 pts)
10 Skink Skirmishers, 70 pts (Hand Weapon; Blowpipe; Aquatic; Skirmishers)

Skink Skirmishers (10#, 70 pts)
10 Skink Skirmishers, 70 pts (Hand Weapon; Blowpipe; Aquatic; Skirmishers)

Skink Priest (1#, 105 pts)
1 Skink Priest, 105 pts (Hand Weapon; Aquatic)
1 Cube of Darkness

Skink Priest (1#, 90 pts)
1 Skink Priest, 90 pts (Hand Weapon; Aquatic)
1 Dispel Scroll

Skink Priest (1#, 115 pts)
1 Skink Priest, 115 pts (Hand Weapon; Aquatic)
1 Feedback Scroll

Saurus Warriors (23#, 306 pts)
22 Saurus Warriors, 306 pts (Musician Mus; Standard Bearer Std; Hand Weapon; Spear; Shield; Scaly Skin)
1 Saurus Champion (Hand Weapon; Spear; Shield)

Saurus Warriors (25#, 330 pts)
24 Saurus Warriors, 330 pts (Musician Mus; Standard Bearer Std; Hand Weapon; Spear; Shield; Scaly Skin)
1 Saurus Champion (Hand Weapon; Spear; Shield)

Saurus Scar-Veteran (1#, 143 pts)
1 Saurus Scar-Veteran, 143 pts (Hand Weapon; Light Armour; Shield; Scaly Skin)
1 Sword of Strife
1 Venom of the Firefly Frog

Salamander (12#, 225 pts)
3 Salamander Hunting Pack, 225 pts (Aquatic; Causes Fear; Scaly Skin; Skirmishers)
9 Skink Handlers (Hand Weapon; Aquatic; Skirmishers)

Validation Report:
Edition: 8th Edition; Game Type: Normal Game; Army Subtype: Lizardmen Army
Roster satisfies all enforced validation rules

Composition Report:
Points of Lords: 495 (0 - 500)
Points of Heroes: 453 (0 - 500)
Points of Core: 826 (500 - Unlimited)
Points of Special: 0 (0 - 1000)
Points of Rare: 225 (0 - 500)

Total Roster Cost: 1999

Created with Army Builder® - Try it for free at http://www.wolflair.com

This is an anti mage build. The slann can be on foot on his own since he is immune to all non magical attacks, denies his enemy wizards all their 6s so they can never cast irresistible force. Then 1 dispel scroll, one feedback scroll and 1 cube of darkness on the skinks. If you want to use death magic you can march the skink priests up and channel through them. If you want to use life magic you could reconfigure this and maybe up your saurus blocks. The salamanders will do some damage against any elf army anything that has T3 will not like it.

Really I think LM scale better at the 2500 point mark. Then I can usually justify sneaking in an ancient stegadon with EotG on it for one of the skink priests.

Salamanders will do more damage and scare opponents than a stegadon by far.. They're amazing and probably the best thing in the book besides the Life slann

However people may not like playing you much if you use the max possible of them.. The Life slann, Saurus block, salamander list is what Ive used to crush people in tournaments but it gets boring fast

Kirasu wrote:Salamanders will do more damage and scare opponents than a stegadon by far.. They're amazing and probably the best thing in the book besides the Life slann

However people may not like playing you much if you use the max possible of them.. The Life slann, Saurus block, salamander list is what Ive used to crush people in tournaments but it gets boring fast

what would you reccommend for a fun list that is also effective? I am a fan of Saurus and don't really want many Skinks, Terradons would do though.

Just dont use 2 units of salamanders. One unit is very powerful and on par with other armies top units.

Terradons are decent but if you wanna to use a stegadon then go for it. they work well with life slanns

Also do not under estimate skink skirmishers. I have taken out so many things worth double or more than my points with skinks skirmishers. March and fire, quick to fire, 2x poisoned shots. When you are rolling 40 shooting dice a turn you are going to roll some 6s. This is devastating against small units, like 5 knights. Sure their armor is great, but they are going to roll some 1s when you are hitting them with so many dice. Chameleon skinks take out war machines like no one's business.

Kirasu wrote:Just dont use 2 units of salamanders. One unit is very powerful and on par with other armies top units.

Terradons are decent but if you wanna to use a stegadon then go for it. they work well with life slanns

Thing is I wanted one unit on either flank, and one unit won't work well at covering both flanks :(

Kirasu wrote:Salamanders will do more damage and scare opponents than a stegadon by far.. They're amazing and probably the best thing in the book besides the Life slann

However people may not like playing you much if you use the max possible of them.. The Life slann, Saurus block, salamander list is what Ive used to crush people in tournaments but it gets boring fast

EotG is so great though, D6 hits no armor save. The list I built I think is pretty solid. The skinks will either get ignored and cause a decent amount of damage with their blow pipes, or they will get concetrated on allowing your blocks to advance. Ethereal Slann says try to attack me, it won't work, and the anti mage build will stop their mage from taking control of the magic phase. Deny 6s, and cupped hands.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Terradons are very much NOT worth the points. If anything put a small unit of cold one riders, remember life Slann will allow them to rise from their grave.

Crom wrote:

Kirasu wrote:Salamanders will do more damage and scare opponents than a stegadon by far.. They're amazing and probably the best thing in the book besides the Life slann

However people may not like playing you much if you use the max possible of them.. The Life slann, Saurus block, salamander list is what Ive used to crush people in tournaments but it gets boring fast

EotG is so great though, D6 hits no armor save. The list I built I think is pretty solid. The skinks will either get ignored and cause a decent amount of damage with their blow pipes, or they will get concetrated on allowing your blocks to advance. Ethereal Slann says try to attack me, it won't work, and the anti mage build will stop their mage from taking control of the magic phase. Deny 6s, and cupped hands.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Terradons are very much NOT worth the points. If anything put a small unit of cold one riders, remember life Slann will allow them to rise from their grave.

I like your list, it looks really good, but I don't want skink spam :/

GoDz BuZzSaW wrote:

Crom wrote:

Kirasu wrote:Salamanders will do more damage and scare opponents than a stegadon by far.. They're amazing and probably the best thing in the book besides the Life slann

However people may not like playing you much if you use the max possible of them.. The Life slann, Saurus block, salamander list is what Ive used to crush people in tournaments but it gets boring fast

EotG is so great though, D6 hits no armor save. The list I built I think is pretty solid. The skinks will either get ignored and cause a decent amount of damage with their blow pipes, or they will get concetrated on allowing your blocks to advance. Ethereal Slann says try to attack me, it won't work, and the anti mage build will stop their mage from taking control of the magic phase. Deny 6s, and cupped hands.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Terradons are very much NOT worth the points. If anything put a small unit of cold one riders, remember life Slann will allow them to rise from their grave.

I like your list, it looks really good, but I don't want skink spam :/

I used to be a skink hater, until I tried them and watched a 70 point unit wipe a 500 point unit with poisoned darts, and then watched them destroy T7 war machines like it was nothing, because rolling a 6 to hit is an automatic wound. You should at least give them a try, and running skink priests is great for your Slann for support, and always remember the Slann can channel through the skinks priests.

EOTG and all stegadons are great unless all your opponents have cannons.. which is sorta why I stopped using them. If you dont go first and get off the ward save then everything dies which is lame

My issue with EOTG is that I used to run it + warspear chief and you cant do that anymore.. Not real impressed with non-heroed stegadons when stuff like Hydras are a ton less points.. or salamanders

I agree terradons arent that great however a lot of that is due to how annoying the metal models are

Ethereal slann is fine too, Ive just never been a fan of it because I prefer the TG block but hes good if youre running a different style list

Basically if I do saurus blocks I use the 470 pt slann
Rumination, cogitation and mystery.. BSB with LD banner, cupped hands (or with life you can take forbidden rod), and iron curse talisman

Crom wrote:

GoDz BuZzSaW wrote:

Crom wrote:

Kirasu wrote:Salamanders will do more damage and scare opponents than a stegadon by far.. They're amazing and probably the best thing in the book besides the Life slann

However people may not like playing you much if you use the max possible of them.. The Life slann, Saurus block, salamander list is what Ive used to crush people in tournaments but it gets boring fast

EotG is so great though, D6 hits no armor save. The list I built I think is pretty solid. The skinks will either get ignored and cause a decent amount of damage with their blow pipes, or they will get concetrated on allowing your blocks to advance. Ethereal Slann says try to attack me, it won't work, and the anti mage build will stop their mage from taking control of the magic phase. Deny 6s, and cupped hands.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Terradons are very much NOT worth the points. If anything put a small unit of cold one riders, remember life Slann will allow them to rise from their grave.

I like your list, it looks really good, but I don't want skink spam :/

I used to be a skink hater, until I tried them and watched a 70 point unit wipe a 500 point unit with poisoned darts, and then watched them destroy T7 war machines like it was nothing, because rolling a 6 to hit is an automatic wound. You should at least give them a try, and running skink priests is great for your Slann for support, and always remember the Slann can channel through the skinks priests.

I do want to use a squad of 15-20 on either flank but I don't know how it would work out. I defo want a few Salamanders too

Crom wrote:
Just curious how you can speed of light your whole army? I think that spell only targets a single unit? I play lizards and ogres and you can build some nasty Tyrants that have like 8 to 9 attacks in hand to hand and they will wipe 6+ TG or Suarus per a round of combat, and that is just the lord.

Also, remember Slann can channel through the skink priests. So short range death magic is effective when you march all your cheap level 1 skink pirests up, plus when you have 4 wizards on the table you are rolling 4 D6 for channeling more power dice each magic phase. Then give one skink the cube of darkness and another a dispell scroll, feedback scroll, etc. This way you can dominate over enemy mages, and you can march your skink priests up in range to channel death magic. Against someone like Dark Elves death is great because their mages are a pain in the ass. They also have that really stupid reverse ward save, so anything that doesn't have a STR value to hit is great.

Like all of the Light lore augments Speed of Light has a boosted version which casts in an 12" AOE, its what makes Light so fantastic for Lizards because a single 16+ casting (which with Rumination is an easy 3-4 dice cast) turns the entire core of your army (i.e all the Saurus) into WS10 I10 killing machines. A single 12+ casting (so 2 dice + Rumination) gives your army ample protection from shooting and a very good survivability boost in combat as well. This is its chief advantage over Life, which is all single target spells.

I mentioned it before but you seem to have missed it, but you definitely need to check up on the rules for Skink Priests. You can only cast magic missile type spells from a Slann through a Priest, which means you can't cast ANY Death magic through them because they are all Direct Damage, Hexes or Augments. Certainly taking Priests to get the Cube or a Scroll to help shut down magic is a solid plan, and more chances to channel is always nice, but they aren't a way of getting around the short range of Death magic.

That list you posted is WAY over the top with magic defense though, its only 2000pts and at that level just Becalming or a Scroll is usually going to be enough. Maybe take both if your opponents are really magic heavy, but if your opponent goes with a minimal magic list (like Dwarfs or Gunline Empire for instance) then you have something like 350pts doing nothing. Other than that there isn't much in that list which is going to scare people, you have 1 unit of Sallies which are an obvious target, the Slann who everyone (including you if you misfire Purple Sun) has to be a bit wary of (but not massively because he has to get up close to be effective and a ranked unit will repeatedly beat you with static res) and then a couple of standard blocks + chaff. It has no war machine hunters and is pretty slow so will get taken apart by a gunline and will get run over by a heavily armoured (almost everything is S4 with no way to boost) and/or monster heavy lists (2 units of blowpipes only does so much).

Salamanders are great. With a unit of 3, you've got some serious firepower. With a unit of 1, you've got some decent firepower for 75pts. Your opponent will be hard-pressed to aim a spell or cannonball at a lone Salamander when your Saurus blocks are worth so much more, and so immediately more threatening.

Taking two units shouldn't be a big deal; taking two units of 3 might be a little harsh.

I think that the Standard of Discipline is basically a must-have for any Slann. That, or maybe the Razor Standard, depending on his role.

Rank-and-file Skinks aren't all that great. Skink Skirmishers, however, rock. Just remember that a 7+ to hit negates poison, so you've got to have them (a) in close range or (b) not move before you can use multiple shots. Also, they most certainly cannot march and fire.
Skirmishers probably fair well in several small groups, rather than one larger one (two groups of 10, versus one of 20).

I'm not sure a list with the anti-magic like the one Crom posted is really necessary. Two lvl1s should do. If you're packing the Cogitation, I think going with a Scroll or a Cube should suffice; not all three. 165pts towards anti-magic, above and beyond your lvl4, is pretty steep.

Stegadons are fun, to be sure. But they fall comically fast to cannon fire (and Dakka, is it really true that the cannonball "hits" the crew and the steg., and then that all of those hits are randomized? Really?). The Engine is fun, but your T2 W2 Skink is all it takes to make it useless.

well to be fair I have been playing a lot of games where my opponents have been pelting me with initiative based magic, but I have several lists. I like 2500 point games better over 2,000 because you can also field an old blood. As for skirmishers they get no penalty for moving and firing since blow pipes are quick to fire, I think. I just started playing WHFB again after a really long break so I don't have all the 8th ed rules down just yet.

Well skirmishers CAN march and fire, but not so sure about blowpipes being quick to fire (isn't that stand and shoot anyways).

tiekwando wrote:Well skirmishers CAN march and fire, but not so sure about blowpipes being quick to fire (isn't that stand and shoot anyways).

I just looked it up, quick to fire do not suffer the -1 to hit modifier to shooting and moving in the same turn. However, multiple shots will have a -1 to hit.

Warpsolution wrote:
I think that the Standard of Discipline is basically a must-have for any Slann. That, or maybe the Razor Standard, depending on his role.

Rank-and-file Skinks aren't all that great. Skink Skirmishers, however, rock. Just remember that a 7+ to hit negates poison, so you've got to have them (a) in close range or (b) not move before you can use multiple shots. Also, they most certainly cannot march and fire.
Skirmishers probably fair well in several small groups, rather than one larger one (two groups of 10, versus one of 20).

Stegadons are fun, to be sure. But they fall comically fast to cannon fire (and Dakka, is it really true that the cannonball "hits" the crew and the steg., and then that all of those hits are randomized? Really?). The Engine is fun, but your T2 W2 Skink is all it takes to make it useless.

Discipline is nice but honestly I think its overkill if you aren't running your Slann with TG. Ld9 Cold Blooded with a re-roll is already insanely hard to break and it shouldn't be the Slann testing (as in he sure as hell shouldn't be in combat without TG) so its not like you are going to instantly lose if you fail (whereas a TG block which breaks will cost you the game every time). That said its not a particularly expensive upgrade so its easy to fit in. The Razor Standard is clearly only worth it with TG, the main turn off is the cost really.

I agree Rank and File Skinks are terrible, but the only reason you bring them is to get access to Krox and possibly push your Fortitude (with a 60pt unit which hides) up a bit. Skirmishers are allowed to march and fire so I'm not sure what you are on about there. Blowpipes are NOT Quick to Fire as the FAQ didn't give them that rule (the image of the Skink on that page in the rulebook is incredibly misleading), only Javelins are Quick to Fire. I need to double check the rulebook but I think the only thing being Quick to Fire does is let you stand and shoot from close range, so it doesn't make much difference anyway. You definitely don't want large units of Skinks, the rules for skirmishers now mean that they take up a very large amount of space and you need the manoeuvrability.

There is no randomising any more, a war machine which hits a ridden monsters hits both the crew and the monster. So a Steg which gets hit by a Cannonball will take a S10 hit doing D6 wounds and so will the crew (I'm pretty sure the crew is hit once for D6 wounds not hit 5 times with no carry over of the bonus D6). For an EoTG or Chief, the Steg, the crew and the character are all hit, so yes 1 hit probably means you lose the Priest and most of the functionality of the Engine. In short yes war machines (including Stone Throwers as they do multiple wounds as well) can seriously mess up Stegadon, its something like a 25% chance of killing it with a single hit. This is why you really need to spam them and take plenty of war machine hunters if you want them to do well. Usually they get used with a Light Slann, who doubles their survivability with Pha's or occasionally with a Life Slann, who can heal them back up to full health.

Is there an FaQ on the Stegadons? 'Cause otherwise, specific books overrule the base book, meaning that (from the base) a template hits every part of the model and that (from the army book) the hits are randomized.

As for the marching and shooting thing...just never, ever noticed. So...never mind that.
I'm assuming blow pipes gained the Quick to Fire rule in the FaQ, or are people referring to javelins?

The Standard of Discipline, though...here's why I think it's so damn good. It's cheap, as many people have stated. But more than that: it offers a bonus to the single most pivotal aspect of the game. It's a small bonus, sure, but it's a small price. I am basically sure that it's a steal. It increases a normal unit's ability to hold--and not give up points and be dead--by 2%, or 4%, if the BSB is near. Cold-Blooded only adds to that.
So, yeah, it won't come up every game. But each time it does, it will make a huge difference. And furthermore--I doubt that those 15pts could go towards anything else more useful.

I don't really want to go Spears on my Saurus as I want them to survive, but will 20 be enough? I do have Lore of Life which can help me bring guys back to life but i don't know whether i should go up to 25?

Also should I add a Scar Vet to each of the Saurus units?

Depending on points run blocks of saurus of 20 or 25. I give mine spears and shields, they get that third rank of attacks if they get charged and if they charge on the second round. Also since the new rules do state that any model touching a template is hit, makes salamanders so freaking awesome. You should always run a unit of 3 of Sallys (I call salamanders sally). Chameleon skinks are awesome at killing war machines. Oh, your war machine has T7? Well if I roll a 6 to hit automatic wound. You can infiltrate them, and then vanguard move them. They are always a -1 to hit too. You get 10 of them and they will do 20 shots with their blow pipes, you are gonna roll some 6s. Just don't get them in close combat.

If you do run Slann + Temple guard don't over do it. Saurus are better for the point cost, so run a small unit of them to protect mr froggy, and the use life to make dudes come back to life. Add in a skink priest to get a cube of darkness and/or dispel scroll as well.

Then just have fun.

Actually camos are allways at -2, they are skirmishers and have the chameleotic skin special rule.

HoverBoy wrote:Actually camos are allways at -2, they are skirmishers and have the chameleotic skin special rule.

yes and -3 at long range. I love deploying them near a building in my opponents deployment zone and then vanguard moving to embark in the building. Then they are steadfast, -2, plus hard cover (-4?) and they go pew pew pew with their blow pipes!

That plan i like.
And yes it is -4.

Ok, Should I add a unit of 10 Camo Skinks on each flank to take care of War Machines/Monsters and be a sort of harassment unit?

Many have done well doing that.

HoverBoy wrote:Many have done well doing that.

Just got the feeling that you were urging someone to do something illegal while keeping your back clear, kinda like "I've never told you this, but here's what you should do".

HoverBoy wrote:Many have done well doing that.

many a hooverboy list have been successful due to one unit of camo skinks on each flank.

They infiltrate so no need to always put them on the flank. If you can garrison a building near their deployment zone, do it. You are steadfast and then -4 to hit with missile fire. Then unload your blow gun darts at them.

Remember in 8th edition you can even deploy in their deployment zone as long as you are more than 12 inches from the nearest enemy unit. Unless the opponent has a magic item that prevents that, and there are a few things that make scouts deploy a certain distance away.

Camo skinks are amazing .. My 2500 power list is very simple

Slann
Skink Priest with cube

21 temple guard
25 saurus
25 saurus
10 camo skinks
10 camo skinks
3 salamanders
3 salamanders

There is wargear in there somewhere and upgrades, but thats the basic list. Its not the most fun list to play against but kills most armies very easily

Yeah I love cube of darkness. They roll a super high roll for winds of magic and then you dispel the spell and then end the magic phase. They aren't too happy when you do that lmao!

Here is a list I made last Night:

Lords:

Slaan 315
BSB, Rumination, Tepok

Core:

20 Saurus 250
Full Command

20 Saurus 250
Full Command

Special:

20 Temple Guard 341
Musician, SB

10 Camo Skinks 120

10 Camo Skinks 120

Rare:

2 Salamanders 150

2 Salamanders 150

1696/2000

Dude i run the same baby slaan, except i add the standard of discipline and becalming at higher pts. No offence to HE but i feel dirty with the things he does.

Also i suggest adding some heroes to your list a cube and/or scroll priest, and maybe a scar vet to either enchance your deathstar or two to boost the saurus. For life slaan bunker vets the dragonhelm and some killy weapon is golden, i like the burning blade because it helps with regenerators as the scar vet has higher init than the TG.

yes you definitely need some heroes and some skink priests. Cube of Darkness is such a great item and it shuts down enemy magic phases. Here is my typical 2500 point list (not on my computer with my army builder app at the moment, so this is rough estimate).

Slann
-bunch of disciplines, lore master, deny enemy caster 6s, cupped hands of the old ones, add a free power dice, etc

Saurus blocks
- units of 20 to 25
- full command
- spears and shields

Skink skirmishers:
- several units of 10 to 20 (super cheap units) with blow pipes

Salamanders:
-units of 3 with extra skink handlers

-hero scar vets
-usually weapons that add attacks, or great weapons since you will strike last always anyway

skink priest:
-cube of darkness, if 2 priests also dispel scroll

Optional stuff depending on who I am playing against:

Cold one Knights
Steggadons
Old blood on a carnosaur (if large point game)


I have had games where cold ones on the flank have been very effective. I put 5 of them with full command and a hero (6 total) and I used Life magic to regenerate them a few times and they plowed through the weak side of the flank and then were able to make it most of the game before being wiped.

I also cannot stress how awesome skinks are for the points. A unit of 20 skirmishers is like around 100 points, and they get 40 poisoned blow dart shots per a shooting phase. 40 dice destroys war machines, and many light armored units. It also destroys small heavy armored units. Point in case some WoC heavy knights charged my skinks once, so I stood and shot, there were 5 knights. Out of the 40 dice I rolled like 10 6s, so those are auto wounds. Then I rolled probably another 8 to 10 hits with about 5 ro 6 wounding. So 15ish wounds total, which means each knight had to save three times or die. Needless to say, some 1s were rolled and the knights were practically wiped by my wimpy unit of skinks. This doesn't happen every game, but for how cheap and mobile they are, they are great harassment units. Plus if terrain works out in your favor the little buggers are aquatic. Marshes are dangerous terrain, but aquatic models love it and have no penalties. Also with 8th edition rules on garrison building and special terrain some highly mobile units are sometimes a really good idea and you can use the terrain rolls to your advantage.

Here's My Current List:

Lords:

Slaan 315
Plaque of Tepoke, Rumination, BSB

Heroes:

Scar-Veteran 94
Halberd, Light Armour

Scar-Veteran 94
Halberd, Light Armour

Core:

24 Saurus 294
Full command

24 Saurus 294
Full command

Special:

20 Temple Guard 355
Full Command

10 Camo Skinks 120

10 Camo Skinks 120

Rare:

2 Salamanders 150

2 Salamanders 150

1977/2000

Squeeze in a cupped hands of the old ones on your Slann it will save your butt many times.

GW's on the scar vets is all i can say.

Crom wrote:Squeeze in a cupped hands of the old ones on your Slann it will save your butt many times.

I'm Taking Lore Of Life so i can hopefully negate a miscast on a 2+, but Cupped hands would be epic for my slaan as it would destroy wizards in large units if the roll was low enough.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

GoDz KI11JOY x wrote:GW's on the scar vets is all i can say.

Experience with Lizardmen?

GoDz BuZzSaW wrote:

GoDz KI11JOY x wrote:GW's on the scar vets is all i can say.

Experience with Lizardmen?

You have any yourself?

He is saying great weapon since Lizards initiatives are already really low, you strike last most of the time anyway. Also, most people dispel the heck out of the augment spell in life magic. It gives your mage the 2+ save and doubles the effectiveness of all the buffs. In fact, I use that spell most of the time to force my opponent to waste dispel dice on it, then I hit them with the big spell I wanted instead.

I'll have to agrre with the GW chorus, the only other weapon i see as good on a scar vet is the burning blade for the reasons i gave a few posts ago.

HoverBoy wrote:I'll have to agrre with the GW chorus, the only other weapon i see as good on a scar vet is the burning blade for the reasons i gave a few posts ago.

I'm probably going to take this weapon as it is great for doing what the Scar-Vet will need to do at getting rid of armour.

Replaced Halberds with GW's, have 19 points left, any ideas?

...another Saurus and the Ironcurse Icon on your Slann?

The thing with the Slann is, while he can have a lot of super awesome toys, he's also a great caster as he is. You're paying as much for your Slann as I am for my Grey Seer, and you get more wounds, more power dice, more spells, and he's your BSB. Sure, you can add Becalming Cogitation, Focus of Mystery, and the Cupped Hand of the Old Ones, but now he costs 145pts more. Sometimes it's just overkill.

...but it's usually not. I've seen point-denial lists that stack 36 Temple Guard into a unit with the Slann and just make them impossible to kill. Even at 20 models strong, losing the unit will probably lose you the game, so it's not really that big of a deal, tactically. The Slann can nab you some points, and your gigantic unit will keep all of it's points locked safely away.

Then, it's just a matter of determining how competitive you want to be. I usually err on the less-competitive side. I want an epic struggle, not a one-sided yawn-fest.

It's never ever overkill to take Becalming and focus of mystery.. Beclaming is quite possibly the best ability the slann or really anyone can get if you face ANYONE with decent magic

Routinely its like having a dispel scroll every phase for me

Basically if you wanna be less competitive just take less salamanders and dont use lore of life

Also, halberds are okay on scar vets if you plan on using lore of light but I tend to stick with GW or burning blade + maiming shield

Well, Becalming is great, sure. And I might take it as my one free ability (that or Rumination). But an extra 50pts to know all the spells of a Lore? Probably unnecessary most of the time. And you certainly don't need both Rumination and Becalming to be a fearsome caster.

Warpsolution wrote:...another Saurus and the Ironcurse Icon on your Slann?

The thing with the Slann is, while he can have a lot of super awesome toys, he's also a great caster as he is. You're paying as much for your Slann as I am for my Grey Seer, and you get more wounds, more power dice, more spells, and he's your BSB. Sure, you can add Becalming Cogitation, Focus of Mystery, and the Cupped Hand of the Old Ones, but now he costs 145pts more. Sometimes it's just overkill.

...but it's usually not. I've seen point-denial lists that stack 36 Temple Guard into a unit with the Slann and just make them impossible to kill. Even at 20 models strong, losing the unit will probably lose you the game, so it's not really that big of a deal, tactically. The Slann can nab you some points, and your gigantic unit will keep all of it's points locked safely away.

Then, it's just a matter of determining how competitive you want to be. I usually err on the less-competitive side. I want an epic struggle, not a one-sided yawn-fest.

I'm taking 20 because i think 36 with Lore of Life, which can potentially up the units toughness to 8, would be overkill!

You want to shut down the enemy mage if possible. If they can take shadow magic you gotta watch for the S and T debuffs, Arkham's Mind Razor (or whatever it is called) which allows them to use their LD as their STR, and of course the pit of shades, which is initiative test or die.

It is the answer to the Life Mage Slann, it undoes the buffs with the debuffs, and if other races have high STR and strike before you, they are gonna put a pounding on you. I deny the enemy wizard 6s, I add the extra power die to my rolls, I always roll with a cupped hands. I will toss 6 dice at something to get a miscast on purpose to hand it off to the enemy mage in hopes they die. Sometimes it works, sometimes they lose a level.

If your opponent knows they are facing a life magic Slann, they can counter it with other mages/magic. Most armies have a better character list as well. With lizardmen you get lvl 1 or 2 skinks and then level 4 slann, you don't get any Lord Skink selections, and hero skinks are limited. You also cannot buy a level 3 slann for cheaper either.

If you are going to run the Slann you may as well build him for magic dominance, because there are plenty of things you can face in game from other races that can counter the slann. Mark of Tzeench, Sac dagger, Teclis, feed back scrolls (yeah a lot of times they will let you get that buff off and then you take damage), there is some chaos spell which affects your whole army's leadership....and it is 100% lame.

I think if you are going to take the Slann, might as well dominate with him. Otherwise it can back fire. Just my opinion.

Agreed, hence why I always use the 465 pt Super Slann

@GodsBuzzsaw: the idea with point-denial isn't to bring enough to get the job done, it's to pour as many of your points into as hard-to-get of a place as you can. And Temple Guard, being Stubborn, T4, 6, or 8, maybe with a 5+ Regen and S5 attacks to grind you down with, are pretty damn hard to get.
It's by no means the only Lizardman strategy. But it's a viable one.

As I said, though, Becalming Cogitation and Focused Rumination are hands down the best. Higher State is 3rd, I'd wager. I think Focus of Mystery and Soul of Stone are overpriced, and the others are just plain awful. MR3 is almost good, but still next to useless in a game where the scary spells don't allow saves.

The Cupped Hands is very good; too good, really. But that's most of the Slann's talents. And again, with Life Magic, it's really not all that necessary.

Feedback Scrolls are also not a good way to deal with Slann at all. If, somehow, you don't get IF on your 6 dice, you'll take an average of one wound, after saves. For 50pts? I'll pass.

The Slann is hands-down the best caster in the game. You can dump a lot of points in to him, but I think that benefits you more from a point-denial stance than any other. I usually run: BSB, Standard of Discipline, Plaque of Tepok, Becalming, Focused, and maybe Higher State, for 380-430. In 2000pt games and up. He's not the most tricked-out he can be, but he's miles ahead of any other caster, cheap enough that I can fit in another fun toy or two somewhere else, and doesn't have the same ol' crap that every Uberslann brings to the table that opponents have learned to hate.

Teclis is the best caster in the game

Crom wrote:Teclis is the best caster in the game

But Teclis is too weak.

Crom wrote:If your opponent knows they are facing a life magic Slann, they can counter it with other mages/magic. Most armies have a better character list as well. With lizardmen you get lvl 1 or 2 skinks and then level 4 slann, you don't get any Lord Skink selections, and hero skinks are limited. You also cannot buy a level 3 slann for cheaper either.

That would be making an Anti-List Though.

Eh Teclis is not better than a Slann.. Yes in *one* way he is because he casts spells better however the Slann is all around vastly superior

Cant be killed until his entire unit is gone (Most of the time)
T4, 5W, 4+ ward save vs T2 3W no save
Same power dice as teclis if you use the 465pt version
No vulnerability to direct attacks
NOT a crutch (Slann is a basic character where as Teclis is a special and due to being easily killed the entire army tends to crumble once hes dead)
Superior anti-magic defense (Yeah teclis has a scroll which is decent, but cogitation is amazing)
LD10 Rerollable to everyone (if you use 465pt slann.. No need to spend another 150 on a BSB)

Teclis gets a permanent 2+ save to miscasts and can irresistible force on any doubles and he ignores his first miscast of every turn. He can dominate magic phases. If you are playing a Dark Elf, or anyone that can use shadow magic, they will use shadow magic against you. The sacrificial dagger is so annoying. A good dark elf player will put his mage in a horde of cheap spearmen. Then to load his scores up so high you cannot dispel (unless you roll double 6s) he will use his sac dagger to gain more power dice. Every single time I play dark elves this happens. I usually hold my dice for pit of shades but that means letting them get off all the buffs/hexes and stuff which is bad. Mark of Tzeench gives the level 4 chaos mage an extra level essentially, and they have spells that can negate army wide leadership bonuses, which takes away cold blooded at times.

If you are going to use a Slann dominate magic with them. Plus high elf magic can be devastating. They have a spell that destroys your magic items. So, you want to deny Teclis his 6s, and any other mage that can cause you trouble.

I dont think Ive ever let pandemonium be successfully cast in the entire time its been a spell.. Best defense is knowing your opponents spells and what to dispel!

Becalming makes it almost guaranteed that you'll dispel the enemies most dangerous spell unless hes Teclis

Kirasu wrote:I dont think Ive ever let pandemonium be successfully cast in the entire time its been a spell.. Best defense is knowing your opponents spells and what to dispel!

Becalming makes it almost guaranteed that you'll dispel the enemies most dangerous spell unless hes Teclis

Except when you are playing a dark elf with a sac dagger, and they decide to sac 4 spearmen for 4 extra dice at the end of the magic phase and totally jack up their score. It is so broken, and I am sure it will get nerfed eventually. I hate sac daggers.

For the record, I was making the claim that the Slann is the best non-special character caster in the game. Teclis is, in fact, better at magic. For some stupid reason.

The Dagger isn't all that great, in my opinion. It's good. Very good. But it amounts to an extra d6/spell, if they need it.

Tzeentch casters are good too, but again, I don't think they can hold a candle to a Slann with Becalming and Rumination.

You want to dominate the magic phases with your Slann? You only need to spend 325pts to do so. Sure, you can spend more to dominate even further, and it's a solid choice. But the Minislann is by no means a bad choice.

The sac dagger allows to add any more dice the DE player wants even after rolling the first results. I have seen DE players boost spells to 30+ scores with it so I cannot dispel things like pit of shades on my horde blocks of saurus, which is very very bad to say the least. You cannot always roll double 6s for ultimate dispel either.

Well sac dagger she can only add 1 per cast, which may mean they are playing it wrong.

tiekwando wrote:Well sac dagger she can only add 1 per cast, which may mean they are playing it wrong.

You sure it is only one per a cast? I thought it was as many as you wanted up to the maximum amount of power dice that can be cast, or in the pool.

IDK seems very clear to me:

"Once per spell-casting attempt, after the casting dice have been rolled, the Sorceress may sacrifice a model in a unit she has joined - ..."

So she can only do it once per spell casting attempt and she can only sacrifice a model.

well that changes the whole game against dark elves for me....gonna read the book now

Crom wrote:well that changes the whole game against dark elves for me....gonna read the book now

Do It!

I agree that my Temple Guard unit is fairly small, but if i was to add more to it it would mean the rest of my army would be mucked up as I need several units of Camo skinks and more than one unit salamanders would be better.

Actually, here is what you should do, and this is what the local lizardmen player told me when I got back into WHFB. I played lizards in 4th edition and then quit war gaming for 15 years. He told me to run a Slann with every lore and see what you like. You can skip out on the temple guard and make the Slann Ethereal with magic resistance so he gets a 2+ save against magic spells, and doesn't get hurt by anything else. Just make sure you keep him out of charge range since magic weapons can hurt him still in hand to hand. That frees up a lot of points and you can run a horde of saurus led by an old blood or some scar vets, and then a few blocks with full command, some skinks and some salamanders.

The life slann is powerful indeed. Temple guard are nice. However, there are many ways to play the Slann. Try them out, figure out which way you like to play best and then build your strategy around it. Always be willing to change it up too, throw your opponents for a loop.

Im not a huge fan of the above strategy just due to my playstyle however it can work in amusing ways

If you do the above you can also take the crown of command and charge the slann pretty much any unit without magic weapons and keep them tied up for the entire game without fear.. Long as you give him a lore such as shadow or life you can do a great deal of damage even engaged in CC

yeah well the Slann if also the battle standard gets a +1 for a standard, and as long as they don't out rank you can you can auto win by 1 every round if they cannot touch you. The good thing about the solo slann is that if he miscasts you won't be blowing up the unit you are in.

I still encourage you trying all play styles, as it keeps your opponents on their toes when you show up and do something different every time. If they know for a fact you are going cookie-cutter tournament list Life Slann, they can build to counter it.

I will give this list a try and see how it goes, If i like it then I will keep playing the list, I will see where this list gets weak as i will aim to play a variety of armies. Then I will try the Ethereal Slaan!

Just remember crown of command for ethereal slann or you could get run down by 20 slaves.. that would be sad

Odds: .1%, I believe. Not completely sure, but confident.

Kirasu wrote:Just remember crown of command for ethereal slann or you could get run down by 20 slaves.. that would be sad

That is why you keep him out of charging distance, or jam pack him with highly deadly magic. Magic happens before combat. Another option is to have an Etheral slann charge a unit that cannot hurt him and has no ranks, like a chariot, hydra, great eagle and so forth. You will auto tie and pretty much hold that unit up for the whole game until someone else charges you. charge him into skirmishers, they don't get rank bonuses.

I prefer to keep my Slann out of charge range personally.

Etheral Slann+Shield of Thorns/Whatever that fire thingie is called (Cascading Fire-Cloak?)=fun times!

AlmightyWalrus wrote:Etheral Slann+Shield of Thorns/Whatever that fire thingie is called (Cascading Fire-Cloak?)=fun times!

hahaha I gotta try that one

I'm going to sort my army out a bit, Pop the Saurus up to 30 and maybe the Temple Guard to 25 if i can afford the points. I don't really want Skinks or Salamanders anymore, are Cold One Cavalry worth it? What else would you reccommend that could fill in for the roles of the Chameleon Skinks and the Salamanders?

What happened? The army was looking so good!

Uh there are no replacements for chameleons or salamanders.. Theyre the best at their jobs and no other unit can do what they do really. Unless you can find another unit that can do 80 hits per turn to blocks of units or scout, then move 12" and fire with BS4 poison shots

Coldone cavalry are abysmal as they are 35pts for average cavalry move, average saves, average strength on charge, low initiative and.. as all cav cannot flank effectively any longer

You should do 26 TG if you really want even more temple guard, not 25

Mayby you should give the slaan cuped hands and Divine plate of protection, in case he goes alone. And focus of mystery and the focused rumination or Higher state of consciousness, unfathomable precence and the focused rumination ( can only be harmed by magical attacks, 4+ ward and magic resistance 3 = Awsome ).

Well I like the list but I think I need more Saurus in the units to make them better and I could have spears too. 20 Guys, even though the slaan could bolster them doesn't seem like enough.

Since 8th edition Ive lost my unit of 21 temple guard like once.. And that is usually always because of miscasts. They're pretty hard to totally kill with lore of life

Kirasu wrote:Since 8th edition Ive lost my unit of 21 temple guard like once.. And that is usually always because of miscasts. They're pretty hard to totally kill with lore of life

If i keep the TG the same but add some Saurus, what should i do instead of the Salamanders?

A bit of hijacking here, but what do you guys think of Mazamundi? The main drawbacks that I see is that he'll be a massive target for things like Pit and Purple Sun, as well as cannons. Oh, and not having Rumination. Now that I think about it, does Zlaaq or whatever the Stegadon's called come with an Engine of the Gods?

No LM SC is worth his points, thaey're all about 100-200 points too much.
Also no engine.

I haven't used a special character in 8th edition yet. I think the only good one is the body guard dude, who counts as hero points and can defend the Slann in a temple guard unit when challenges arise.

You dont need to defend the slann as he's not a valid target to challenge anyhow. Hes also 300+ points lol, just take 3 heroes for the same price and have them defend for 3 turns if you really want that

Kirasu wrote:You dont need to defend the slann as he's not a valid target to challenge anyhow. Hes also 300+ points lol, just take 3 heroes for the same price and have them defend for 3 turns if you really want that

You can challenge any character I thought in 8th edition, but the character that is being challenged can have their champion fight for you. His special rules are, when he defends a Slann in a challenge he gets the always strikes first rule and a few other benefits. Not a bad character and he comes out of hero points. He is probably the only special character I would ever consider taking in the LM army. Otherwise I just build my own Slann, old blood, and scar vets and skink priests.

If thats an issue then just refuse, it doesnt really matter. You dont have to accept anything. The only thing that happens is you'll lose 1 LD for that phase but you're still the BSB so shrug who cares really

Thats no reason to spend 300pts on an extremely subpar character. You can buy an old one with a great save for less than that

Kirasu wrote:If thats an issue then just refuse, it doesnt really matter. You dont have to accept anything. The only thing that happens is you'll lose 1 LD for that phase but you're still the BSB so shrug who cares really

Thats no reason to spend 300pts on an extremely subpar character. You can buy an old one with a great save for less than that

He comes out of Hero points, not lord, so you cannot build an old blood that is better for the points usually when fielding a Slann, I am gonna have to pull out my book now one sec....


Automatically Appended Next Post:
OK, he is a 335 point hero, that nullifies all magic weapons in base to base contact with him, he must accept all challenges, no infiltrators can deploy with 20" of him, when joining a unit of TG and a Slann the unit becomes unbreakable, he gets to reroll any failed to hit rolls. If any hidden models like assassins or fanatics are in units with in 20 inches they must reveal themselves (not sure if reveal means release, if so that is HUGE against fanatics), 4+ scaly skin 5+ ward, and all models that wish to attack him Always strike last regardless of weapons, charging, or abilities.

WS5 S/T 5 W2 A4...

Not too shabby considering what he does. I need to find out if showing hidden models means it triggers fanatics being released....that could be huge against Orcs and Goblins.

Try to build a scar vet that is just as good....not sure you can.

If you want protection take a scar vet with armor of destiny and a shield..2+ save and 4+ ward save for less than half the cost

There is virtually no way to make chaxax useful in any meaningful way Im sorry. Hes 355 points! thats insane

Just take like 4 scarvets with shields and light armor lol.. Thats 4 turns of no challenges and a lot more attacks

Kirasu wrote:If you want protection take a scar vet with armor of destiny and a shield..2+ save and 4+ ward save for less than half the cost

Actually just take light armor shirld and the dragonhelm then get regen from the slaan 2+ 4+ and points for a weapon

if your going to run fighty lizards then i say light

if your running a brick style reactionary force, then lore of life

i run the frog-bus with TG so i take life mostly since im more of a brick player