Saw this over on B&C: http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/index.php?showtopic=233471&st=0

Spend 100 euros and you can reroll a dice in a GW store.
Spend 250 euros and you can reroll a dice at an official GW tournament!

Woohoo!

Something Wycked said it best

..... That is insane. If they're going to start letting people buy victory, the game is dead.

"Oh, I didn't get that game critical roll? Well, good thing I have more money than you. Re-roll."

Kind of silly? Or genius? You decide, I guess.

Those rerolls are the finest rerolls in wargaming.

Can you return your reroll for a new one if it's miscast?

Must be a joke.

They've done this before a few times. I have no idea why, but it cropped up during the summer time in the previous events too.

Maybe they see more 'new' players during the summer and try to offer some kind of incentive(silly as it looks to us) to people who buy their stuff in the shop rather than online?

Either way. It's always weird.

Didn't they do something like this during the DE release, or before it? Where depending on how much you spent you got an amount of cards that let you do stuff like rerolls.

Disgusting.

I think Dakka members should adapt the same business acumen. For 100 Euros, HMBC could state one good thing about GW, for 150, Ailaros could admit that he likes autocannons, and for 300 Euros, Kan could allow something glaringly wrong in 40k Background to slide!

I've seen things like this for tournaments that are also food drives or charity events, but how actually legit is this?

Can any players in Spain verify this?

Better make that 500 Euros and something only slightly wrong.

It's 1500 for something glaringly wrong.

Kanluwen wrote:Better make that 500 Euros and something only slightly wrong.

It's 1500 for something glaringly wrong.

How much will it take to make it ok for Blood Angels to bro-fist with Necrons?

Kanluwen wrote:Better make that 500 Euros and something only slightly wrong.

It's 1500 for something glaringly wrong.

Kan, for 1500 euros, I'd expect you to begin slurping upon the Graple haterade for GW, and become a hardcore PP and CHS apologist, instead.

Uh, I don't think anyone can afford that image being posted.

Now, a rant about Ward's fluff while citing 1d4chan will cost you 3500E but you only get to use one of his alleged fluff violations and it can't be one constantly hollered about.

Necros wrote:Can you return your reroll for a new one if it's miscast?

That's pretty funny.

Actually, I think it is so they can sell this product.

I believe it's like a launch-bonus.

Man, GW sure know how to entice customers with a special offer.

How much dya need to spend for an automatic victory?

Lame idea. Not a fan.

I believe it's a joke...

150 euros for free delivery. Why do you need free delivery if you're at the store buying it?

Not sure if serious

Cant find my reaction pic but....

not sure if serious.

If this is true, my thoughts on GW just took another dip southward. if not, its not very funny considering what they have been doing.

If you pay me 100 euro directly I might let you reroll one die at my events. For every car payment of mine you make you can reroll 1 die! What a bargain

airsoftmanic wrote:Cant find my reaction pic but....

not sure if serious.

If this is true, my thoughts on GW just took another dip southward. if not, its not very funny considering what they have been doing.

Once again. Even if it is serious, it's not like "You pay 100 Euros to buy a reroll".

It's "If you spend 100 Euros at a GW shop, in one visit, you get a little card that lets you do a reroll".

As has been said: this isn't new. They've done this before, and that's how it's always been done. It only applies to GW stores, and if I remember right it was a case of "The reroll will not actually affect the outcome of the game, it's just a fun little thing you can do to try to erase that 1 from your memory".

Kanluwen wrote:

Once again. Even if it is serious, it's not like "You pay 100 Euros to buy a reroll".

It's "If you spend 100 Euros at a GW shop, in one visit, you get a little card that lets you do a reroll".

As has been said: this isn't new. They've done this before, and that's how it's always been done. It only applies to GW stores, and if I remember right it was a case of "The reroll will not actually affect the outcome of the game, it's just a fun little thing you can do to try to erase that 1 from your memory".

Sounds like a desperate attempt to get people to spend in store. "Hey, I'm afraid were 15% more expensive here than online, but spend with us and you'll get a free re-roll! Not bad value, eh? Hold on, where are you going?"

hey, guys, I made a funny! Laugh with me.

Also, this is a joke.

however, if I'm spending 200$ at a gamercon, then hellz yes I want to skip FW waiting lines

that one is worth it.

But if lots of peeps buys lots then there will be a queue avoidance queue, so you need to spend more to avoid queueing in the queue avoidance queue.

Hope that is clear.

Note the cultural difference. We Brits enjoy a good queue so there is no point pushing that one in Blighty!

This sort of thing is pretty standard. The GW nearest me just wrapped up a 2 month campaign with bonuses. If you purchased a unit in the store to use in the campaign, you got to pick a random card from a deck. Each card corresponded to a bonus... +1S, reroll attacks, etc. There were a ton of different bonuses. That unit would keep the bonus throughout the campaign.

Everyone had fun. No one complained about having to "buy victory". The campaign rewarded those who supported the store by making purchases, yet excluded no one. It was a great success.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

zedmeister wrote:Sounds like a desperate attempt to get people to spend in store. "Hey, I'm afraid were 15% more expensive here than online, but spend with us and you'll get a free re-roll! Not bad value, eh? Hold on, where are you going?"

Keep in mind that online stores don't offer free hobby advice, tables to play on, tables to paint on or a hobby community to become a part of. Not taking these things into consideration in your argument makes your argument weak. If you're the kind of person who has no intention of taking advantage of the hobby advice, gaming tables, painting tables or hobby community, then by all means shop online. Also, retail stores exist to make money. Everything they do is geared towards making money. To expect otherwise is naive. Of course offering a free reroll is an attempt to make more money. It probably worked with some people and not with others, just like every other marketing ploy out there.

DarkCorsair wrote:I believe it's a joke...

150 euros for free delivery. Why do you need free delivery if you're at the store buying it?

You can buy them in advance as coupons.

I've got a laser copier-printer that does both sides at once in full colour.

Kriswall wrote:This sort of thing is pretty standard. The GW nearest me just wrapped up a 2 month campaign with bonuses. If you purchased a unit in the store to use in the campaign, you got to pick a random card from a deck. Each card corresponded to a bonus... +1S, reroll attacks, etc. There were a ton of different bonuses. That unit would keep the bonus throughout the campaign.

See, I think this is cool and a really good way of encouraging people to buy from the store. So in reality, the people who'd have less luck would be the people who don't support the store they're playing at, which I'm cool with.

Personally I think the whole business about paying 100 euros for a re-roll is pretty hilarious. If I'm playing against some Neck-beard who paid 100 euros so that he could re-roll his Lascannon's penetration dice against my Leman Russ, I'd welcome it. Because in the end, the jakes are on him, not me. I can go on with my life and go have a fun evening afterward with the ~150 dollars I didn't spend on a re-roll, and the neckbeard just spent an absurd amount of money to win a toy soldier game.

Especially if he misses again. That was E100 well spent.

That's $143.21 in a GW store and $358.03 in an offical tournie?!??!

That's just straight up shenanigans....

I'll take ten!

Vladsimpaler wrote:
See, I think this is cool and a really good way of encouraging people to buy from the store. So in reality, the people who'd have less luck would be the people who don't support the store they're playing at, which I'm cool with.

What about people who bought their army from that store years ago? Or established players that don't need to buy anything?

Off-topic comment deleted by Manchu.

Please keep the discussion on-topic, as per the site rules. Thanks!

I'm willing to make a better offer. For $10, you can win any game against me outside of a tournament setting. For the admittance fee, you can win any game against me during a tournament.

Just to clear up some questions, if you purchase your re-roll from a North American IP you cannot use it in the Southern Hemisphere.

Southern Hemisphere re-rolls are available in official Games Workshop stores (950 Euros).

Re-rolls may suffer some loss of rigidity in hot weather.

LOL, I'm afraid it's true... I haven't been to any GW event this year, but they've played similar marketing stunts in the past.

I admit it's dumb, though.

Keep in mind that online stores don't offer free hobby advice, tables to play on, tables to paint on or a hobby community to become a part of. Not taking these things into consideration in your argument makes your argument weak. If you're the kind of person who has no intention of taking advantage of the hobby advice, gaming tables, painting tables or hobby community, then by all means shop online. Also, retail stores exist to make money. Everything they do is geared towards making money. To expect otherwise is naive. Of course offering a free reroll is an attempt to make more money. It probably worked with some people and not with others, just like every other marketing ploy out there.

Quite right. But having perspective bars you from posting in threads like these. Kindly remember that in future...

The 'miscasts' joke was pretty clever mind. If all the hecklers showed that level of witanti-GW bandwagonning would be a sight more amusing.

Kriswall wrote:Keep in mind that online stores don't offer free hobby advice, tables to play on, tables to paint on or a hobby community to become a part of.

If these things are only free to those that spend a certain amount of money at the store store during a certain time frame then they aren't at all free.

Well.. to be honest, if they slipped me just $10 over the table I would let them re-roll the dice. Cut out the middle man so to speak.

If these things are only free to those that spend a certain amount of money at the store store

My experience is that they are free to anyone. I haven't spent a penny in my locl GW shop this year and I still play there weekly or fortnightly. Sometimes twice weekly.

To be honest if I was playing someone who'd shelled out about £1000 in the shop this year, I'd not grudge him a couple of re-rolls -- he'd have done more in practical terms to support the shop than me and in a sense I'm freeloading on that.

The 'miscasts' joke was pretty clever mind. If all the hecklers showed that level of witanti-GW bandwagonning would be a sight more amusing.

There have been plenty of witty comments at GW's expense which is not difficult given their prices.
You just need to get around more or is that need to stay in more...

Now I'm confused...

Well most of those comments were pretty feeble. Not compared to mis-casting dice which is rather clever.

I'd also add that when I moved to my current house six years ago, my local GW shop allowwed me to play almost straight away and find plenty of opponents. What bastards GW are providing a free service like that.

It's people like you who are KILLING THE HOBBY Pacific
To get the maximum usable number of re-rolls for a tournament game with my Orks I'd ONLY have to spend 1,650,600 euro! That's a BARGAIN. So for your average 6 round tourny that's only 9,903,600!
Man, I take it all back. GW are marketing savants!
Edit, woah, I had misread the OP as being 300 per tourney re-roll! It's really only around 8 million for a tournament's worth! EVEN BETTER!

htj wrote:Especially if he misses again. That was E100 well spent.

More like E150 well, spent.

SkaerKrow wrote:

Vladsimpaler wrote:
See, I think this is cool and a really good way of encouraging people to buy from the store. So in reality, the people who'd have less luck would be the people who don't support the store they're playing at, which I'm cool with.

What about people who bought their army from that store years ago? Or established players that don't need to buy anything?

If it's a campaign then you're going to be adding new units/bulking up forces anyway, so it's just an extra bonus.

If not, well, it sucks but that's what it is. I'm not denying there are some cons to the idea, however overall it's a good one.

Criticism on THIS thread is jumping on the anti-GW bandwagon?

I thought you were referring to comments in general but if one is not allowed to criticise without being dismissively accused of bandwagoning...
Good grief man

Sorry, I was just exaggerating for effect. Terrible habit. Can't think where I picked it up.

The game is already skewed in favour of people who can afford the more expensive, and thus more powerful, units. Now spending large amount means you get a "free reroll" to use in a game? It's just a reflection of how much money and winning is now encouraged above fairness and good gaming. Buying rerolls of dice. What if I don't accept the validity of your "reroll" card?

Kriswall wrote:Keep in mind that online stores don't offer free hobby advice, tables to play on, tables to paint on or a hobby community to become a part of.

GW doesn't do much of that either without it being an extended sales pitch. What, you think those things are there out the kindness of their hearts? It's only for noobs, who needs painting advice and a table to paint on?

"Free hobby advice" - You can get that online, a huge variety and top quality and really inspirational. Like what White Dwarf articles were like 20 years ago.

"Tables to play on" - Fair enough, if you like playing in a shop but it's not that hard to find a local group or meet at a home with friends, then you can play however you like at the table and don't have a member of staff telling you that you can only use GW terrain and trying to sell you more Space Marines.

"Tables to paint on" - If you can afford GW figures you can afford a table. Honestly, painting in a shop sounds like hell.

"A hobby community to become a part of" - Yeah, the GW hobby where you can only show and discuss stuff they approve of. The best hobby communities are outside of GW stores where you are free of their corporate bs.

Artemo wrote:

If these things are only free to those that spend a certain amount of money at the store store

My experience is that they are free to anyone. I haven't spent a penny in my locl GW shop this year and I still play there weekly or fortnightly. Sometimes twice weekly.

To be honest if I was playing someone who'd shelled out about £1000 in the shop this year, I'd not grudge him a couple of re-rolls -- he'd have done more in practical terms to support the shop than me and in a sense I'm freeloading on that.

Dang! A card? That's sort of lame.

My friend runs a charity tournament, and you 'buy' loaded dice for rerolls. For $3, you get one die. For $5 you get two. You buy them, and set them down on the table with whatever side you want facing up. Plus, you get to keep the dice (which have his charity listed on one face).

Better price, better result, and a tangible benefit, both for you, and for the charity.

GW's cheating is weaksauce. I don't really have much of a problem with the concept, but the execution seems cheap.

(It was annoying, but funny, when my Bretonnian opponent bought two d6s and used one to hit my Ghorgon, and the other to Heroic Killing Blow him. Sure, I lost a model, but the charity got $5 out of that one combat!).

Well you didn't get it from me Artemo, that's for sure
I never, ever exaggerate, not in a million years...


...oh...





...bugger

vile.

There sure are some bunched-up panties in this thread. I've seen stuff like this before where the store had a raffle or something on and for every fiver or tenner you put in you got one re-roll in an in-store game. Since it was a random meaningless game with other people in the shop it meant pretty much nothing and was a bit of a laugh.

Corrode wrote:There sure are some bunched-up panties in this thread. I've seen stuff like this before where the store had a raffle or something on and for every fiver or tenner you put in you got one re-roll in an in-store game. Since it was a random meaningless game with other people in the shop it meant pretty much nothing and was a bit of a laugh.

+1.

Seriously, you're getting this upset at a store's sales promotion?

Ah, I see they are adapting the tried and tested "Kirby" tourney plan.

There's a big difference between £5 and £134 for a reroll.

I like the charity dice idea and they are cheap enough for everyone to have a go.

The GW price is more like sanctioning stupid rich people to cheat.

Wow.

Just wow...

I really must meet the GW decision makers one day, they sound... interesting...

GW store operators are now prohibited from giving away product, having raffles for product, etc. as was commonplace just a few years ago. It's another one of those company culture and philosophy changes that has changed severely in the last couple years.

So, store operators have had to look for creative ways to have buying incentives without being able to offer prizes for painting contests and the like. One tactic that is becoming more common is to offer customers some kind of intangible bonus. Re-rolls on dice are one incentive, another I've seen is to offer players unit statistical bonuses or special abilities for the month in which the unit is purchased for all games in which it appears. As GW has become much more draconian in what it allows store operators to do lately they have been forced to stretch the limits of their imagination to come up with buying incentives for customers that don't violate company policy.

Not only is it laughably stupid in that GW are basically promoting cheating (only if you can afford it), but I can think of a better sales promotion right off the top of my fething head that would have made way more sense, that I doubt anyone would be complaining about.

Buy $100 worth of product, get a free blister. Buy $300 worth of product, get a free box set valued under $50.

But oh noooo, they're so terrified of losing that $18 sale, or just giving away a box of Marines and losing $40.

GW store operators are now prohibited from giving away product

...what kind of backwards-ass...god damn.

Vladsimpaler wrote:If it's a campaign then you're going to be adding new units/bulking up forces anyway, so it's just an extra bonus.

If not, well, it sucks but that's what it is. I'm not denying there are some cons to the idea, however overall it's a good one.

I don't have a problem with a minor rule like that being used in a store sponsored campaign, since campaigns are played for fun and rarely involve strong competition or prize support. However, does the guy that spent $500 in one month have any less right to play on a store's tables than a guy that spent $500 in ten months? This idea that you have to be constantly spending to support a store is ludicrous, and it really goes a long way to devalue the patronage of customers who have already completed their armies/figure collections.

Vladsimpaler wrote:

Kriswall wrote:This sort of thing is pretty standard. The GW nearest me just wrapped up a 2 month campaign with bonuses. If you purchased a unit in the store to use in the campaign, you got to pick a random card from a deck. Each card corresponded to a bonus... +1S, reroll attacks, etc. There were a ton of different bonuses. That unit would keep the bonus throughout the campaign.

See, I think this is cool and a really good way of encouraging people to buy from the store. So in reality, the people who'd have less luck would be the people who don't support the store they're playing at, which I'm cool with.

Personally I think the whole business about paying 100 euros for a re-roll is pretty hilarious. If I'm playing against some Neck-beard who paid 100 euros so that he could re-roll his Lascannon's penetration dice against my Leman Russ, I'd welcome it. Because in the end, the jakes are on him, not me. I can go on with my life and go have a fun evening afterward with the ~150 dollars I didn't spend on a re-roll, and the neckbeard just spent an absurd amount of money to win a toy soldier game.

This is, ironically, a great example of why people are upset about the idea of being able to buy such perquisites; they are an unambiguous affirmation that the game is a joke, one that even the people that put it out can't take seriously.

Think that is putting it to far? Try and imagine selling something equivalent, say, the ability to take back a move or add time to your clock at a ranked chess tournament, or the ability to draw an extra card once in a game at a ranked MtG tournament.

Wouldn't pay a fiver for an eggroll
That store was having a laugh alright...
all the way to the bank.

I don't know why GW doesn't have a customer loyalty program for in-store purchases. Since they seem obsessed with driving people away from Internet purchases and into retail shops, which isn't a bad thing to me, I don't understand why they are the only company with which I do business regularly that has no loyalty program. Virtually every other retail chain and restaurant chain I frequent has some kind of loyalty program and even small amounts of free items will inspire surprisingly many people to make in-store purchases. Even just $5 for every $100 you spend or something like the old Skullz program would benefit their in-store sales greatly, cost them almost nothing, and generate a lot of store and community growth on top of all the additional in-store sales.

GW store operators are now prohibited from giving away product,

Yes, this surprised me. Someone I know offered a GW model bought and painted by himself to a GW shop to be given away as a prize in a competition. Offer refused.

But quite honestly this 'buty a re-roll' business is pretty trivial. I mean how much shop-bought product do you need for enough re-rolls to win a competition?

That might involve them giving something useful away, like cash or models.

For the sake of argument, a blister at cost would be 10% of a £100 purchase and a lot more useful (Assuming the blister contained all parts in good order) than a reroll

The thought of influencing dice rolls by purchasing product just doesn't sit well with me. Can't the idiots come up with a better way to promote their product?

In the kerching of the 21st century there is only lucre.

Buzzsaw wrote:

Vladsimpaler wrote:

Kriswall wrote:This sort of thing is pretty standard. The GW nearest me just wrapped up a 2 month campaign with bonuses. If you purchased a unit in the store to use in the campaign, you got to pick a random card from a deck. Each card corresponded to a bonus... +1S, reroll attacks, etc. There were a ton of different bonuses. That unit would keep the bonus throughout the campaign.

See, I think this is cool and a really good way of encouraging people to buy from the store. So in reality, the people who'd have less luck would be the people who don't support the store they're playing at, which I'm cool with.

Personally I think the whole business about paying 100 euros for a re-roll is pretty hilarious. If I'm playing against some Neck-beard who paid 100 euros so that he could re-roll his Lascannon's penetration dice against my Leman Russ, I'd welcome it. Because in the end, the jakes are on him, not me. I can go on with my life and go have a fun evening afterward with the ~150 dollars I didn't spend on a re-roll, and the neckbeard just spent an absurd amount of money to win a toy soldier game.

This is, ironically, a great example of why people are upset about the idea of being able to buy such perquisites; they are an unambiguous affirmation that the game is a joke, one that even the people that put it out can't take seriously.

Think that is putting it to far? Try and imagine selling something equivalent, say, the ability to take back a move or add time to your clock at a ranked chess tournament, or the ability to draw an extra card once in a game at a ranked MtG tournament.

If you think that Warhammer 40k is a game that needs to be taken seriously I suggest you take a deep breath and go take a walk outside and enjoy the fresh air and the sunshine.

:edit: you live in Pennsylvania, my condolences

If someone wants to win that badly that they'll pay 2000 dollars for 10 rerolls against my army, I'll have them go ahead

And in 6th Edition, all HQ units will have their stats defined by the customer's purchase history, "to allow for more unique characters."

So we've had Kan and Redbeard in here to defend it. We just need Mystery to make an appearance and we'll have the Dakka Trifecta.



Overall this is kind of a silly and pointless move. If it really is a reaction to stores being unable to offer any sort of prizes and incentives then it's a larger company culture problem than a 'greedy evil company' problem. I know though that I wouldn't be too pleased if I was playing at a tournament and the guy across from me told me he had a re-roll because he bought some stuff at a store. That's just daft.

BrassScorpion wrote:I don't know why GW doesn't have a customer loyalty program for in-store purchases.

Loyalty is a two-way street. GW doesn't show any to their customers, so why should their customers show any to them?

Would you argue with someone who would pay 100 euros to reroll one dice?

Think of what else they would be willing to spend their money on to win... a thug with a knife for instance.

Anyway its kinda funny tbh, if they paid me a fraction of that 100 euros I'd be more than willing to take a dive.

Hell I'd do it for a chocolate bar.

Necros wrote:Can you return your reroll for a new one if it's miscast?

HA!

Surely this is getting blown out of proportion. The 'advantages' were only if you had purchased that amount of goods on the day.
People are taking this far too seriously. In saying that GW should be offering something more substantial if they want to lure people into spending.

Also, because you can't have enough Jeff


Please move to discussions!

Vladsimpaler wrote:If you think that Warhammer 40k is a game that needs to be taken seriously I suggest you take a deep breath and go take a walk outside and enjoy the fresh air and the sunshine.

For the amount of money it requires to get started up? Yeah, I'd argue that 40k should probably be taken a little more seriously than that. Especially by the company who made the damn game.

No one's saying 40k should be treated like life and fething death, but I'd like to think that for the money I've spent on the hobby that it's just a little bit above Chutes and Ladders...

Oh, the humanity!!!!

This completely demolishes the purity of the game. What about the history, the pageantry, and the immortal records and stats?!?

Would you argue with someone who would pay 100 euros to reroll one dice?

Not sure

First things first, pick jaw off floor.

Then consider options:
Maybe tell him to shove his reroll where his poop comes from
or
Pointing and laugh
or
maybe a combo
or
tell him he may do so but only with dice made of cheese.

I dunno, maybe GW's on to something...I'll offer re-rolls for $10. Tournaments are $20. And for $35 not only will I forfeit the game but I'll give you a coupon for $2 off your next purchase!

Buzzsaw wrote:

Vladsimpaler wrote:

Kriswall wrote:This sort of thing is pretty standard. The GW nearest me just wrapped up a 2 month campaign with bonuses. If you purchased a unit in the store to use in the campaign, you got to pick a random card from a deck. Each card corresponded to a bonus... +1S, reroll attacks, etc. There were a ton of different bonuses. That unit would keep the bonus throughout the campaign.

See, I think this is cool and a really good way of encouraging people to buy from the store. So in reality, the people who'd have less luck would be the people who don't support the store they're playing at, which I'm cool with.

Personally I think the whole business about paying 100 euros for a re-roll is pretty hilarious. If I'm playing against some Neck-beard who paid 100 euros so that he could re-roll his Lascannon's penetration dice against my Leman Russ, I'd welcome it. Because in the end, the jakes are on him, not me. I can go on with my life and go have a fun evening afterward with the ~150 dollars I didn't spend on a re-roll, and the neckbeard just spent an absurd amount of money to win a toy soldier game.

This is, ironically, a great example of why people are upset about the idea of being able to buy such perquisites; they are an unambiguous affirmation that the game is a joke, one that even the people that put it out can't take seriously.

Think that is putting it to far? Try and imagine selling something equivalent, say, the ability to take back a move or add time to your clock at a ranked chess tournament, or the ability to draw an extra card once in a game at a ranked MtG tournament.

Do none of you people have fun with the game any more? A random in-store game is just that, a fun kickabout. Official GW tournaments are jokes which no-one takes seriously. It's not even close to comparable to a ranked chess tournament.

No one takes it seriously because GW suck at running tournaments. The Throne of Skulls is proof enough of that, they just don't care anymore. And independent stores aren't any better with their constant re-balancing of the game, which often does more harm than good, and tables that either have no terrain or way too much/not the right type, gakky missions that favor armies they like, etc.

daedalus wrote:I think Dakka members should adapt the same business acumen. For 100 Euros, HMBC could state one good thing about GW, for 150, Ailaros could admit that he likes autocannons, and for 300 Euros, Kan could allow something glaringly wrong in 40k Background to slide!

I think Dakka members should adapt the same business acumen. For 100 Euros, HMBC could state one good thing about GW, for 150, Ailaros could admit that he likes autocannons, and for 300 Euros, Kan would have to say something nice about Chapterhouse Studios!

Fixed that for you.

Really? GW HQ is stopping stores doing raffles? Just this christmas my local store gave away 3 GW art lithographs and gakloads of bits in a raffle. Got a massive turnout as well and likely sold a lot more stuff than usual.

Me gusta?

It's an (admittedly silly) promo that's been done many times before. Not news.

Corrode wrote:

Buzzsaw wrote:

Vladsimpaler wrote:

Kriswall wrote:This sort of thing is pretty standard. The GW nearest me just wrapped up a 2 month campaign with bonuses. If you purchased a unit in the store to use in the campaign, you got to pick a random card from a deck. Each card corresponded to a bonus... +1S, reroll attacks, etc. There were a ton of different bonuses. That unit would keep the bonus throughout the campaign.

See, I think this is cool and a really good way of encouraging people to buy from the store. So in reality, the people who'd have less luck would be the people who don't support the store they're playing at, which I'm cool with.

Personally I think the whole business about paying 100 euros for a re-roll is pretty hilarious. If I'm playing against some Neck-beard who paid 100 euros so that he could re-roll his Lascannon's penetration dice against my Leman Russ, I'd welcome it. Because in the end, the jakes are on him, not me. I can go on with my life and go have a fun evening afterward with the ~150 dollars I didn't spend on a re-roll, and the neckbeard just spent an absurd amount of money to win a toy soldier game.

This is, ironically, a great example of why people are upset about the idea of being able to buy such perquisites; they are an unambiguous affirmation that the game is a joke, one that even the people that put it out can't take seriously.

Think that is putting it to far? Try and imagine selling something equivalent, say, the ability to take back a move or add time to your clock at a ranked chess tournament, or the ability to draw an extra card once in a game at a ranked MtG tournament.

Do none of you people have fun with the game any more? A random in-store game is just that, a fun kickabout. Official GW tournaments are jokes which no-one takes seriously. It's not even close to comparable to a ranked chess tournament.

That... was kinda my point. GW games are a joke, incapable of being taken seriously even by the people that make them. This is in contrast to chess or MtG, which can be played at many levels; dead serious or pants-on-head. GW games only have the pants-on-head speed.

As Sid points out, the people who have invested hundreds or thousands in the game sometimes find this hard to swallow.

At the same time, the "it's a crappy, unserious game that can't be played seriously" isn't... well, it isn't really a heck of an endorsement, eh?

Quite a funny subject. I wonder if anyone there fell for using the 100 Euro re-roll

I hope this is real. It will set a precedent and I'll start selling re-rolls in games I play. And instead of charging 100 euro for one die, I'll charge a measly $20/die and let them re-roll any and all dice they want.

Already the forged chits are appearing on eBay

Sidstyler wrote:

Vladsimpaler wrote:If you think that Warhammer 40k is a game that needs to be taken seriously I suggest you take a deep breath and go take a walk outside and enjoy the fresh air and the sunshine.

For the amount of money it requires to get started up? Yeah, I'd argue that 40k should probably be taken a little more seriously than that. Especially by the company who made the damn game.

No one's saying 40k should be treated like life and fething death, but I'd like to think that for the money I've spent on the hobby that it's just a little bit above Chutes and Ladders...

Can you take some of 40k seriously? Sure, it requires actual skill to paint or assemble stuff. Some of the books have very little literary value and sometimes people take the fluff too seriously. (You know who you are).

And I'd argue that the amount of money spent is the only thing that really separates 40k from chutes and ladders. In fact, I'd argue that chutes and ladders has more depth than 40k.

This wouldn't be such a big deal if people didn't take everything in life with such offence. A ton of people on this thread act like Games Workshop insulted their mother or something.

Since 40k is such serious business, I am outraged at this shocking and horrifying development.

Surely, since the loser of every GW sanctioned game of Space Manz is immediately put to death, the very idea of altering the outcome of even one die roll is, to put it mildly, offensive. I demand that every GW Employee be fired at the very least, and I would go so far as to say that drawing and quartering the upper management wouldn't be outside the scope of punishment for the perpetration of such wanton madness.

I for one will never be playing any GW game again. I am soaking my models and Black Library novels in lighter fluid as I type this and will be smashing my computer to smithereens so as to obliterate all traces of the various Dawn of War expansions contained therein. Then I will climb atop my accelerant-soaked ruin of a hobby a set it alight, immolating myself in protest of this crime against humanity.

Buzzsaw wrote:That... was kinda my point. GW games are a joke, incapable of being taken seriously even by the people that make them.

Hmm, as a sort-of-outsider (I don't play tournaments and there's no GW store in my vicinity) I would think the "problem" isn't the seriousness - it's just that things like these come along as ... hmm, how to put it, unsportsmanlike? Imagine you playing cards at the pub and the owner lets others re-draw bad cards based on how much money they spent on their drinks. It just doesn't seem to fit to the spirit of a friendly game and is eroding the very reason for why there's things like rulebooks. Furthermore, it favors people with a big wallet, in a game that one might say is already expensive enough.

I dunno. As I said, I don't even play in such games, but if I would, I'd feel cheated if such purchased re-rolls would steal an honest victory. Sure, it's just a game (and Emperor knows I'm standing more in the "style over substance" zone anyways), but that doesn't change that we probably all enjoy winning.

I'm not sure why such a move has to be defended when there are alternatives for such a bonus scheme that have no negative effect on anyone. Such as, say, free blisters. A GW lottery ticket. A coupon for a couple bits of your choice... (etc)

I want to say that i would be surprised or that this was a joke or something, but then again this is GW we are speaking about, they are not above a stunt like this...

Some of you might believe you spend 100 Euros for the die roll alone.

It's if you buy 100 Euros worth of product, you get a die roll....so really the die roll costs nothing (Other than forgoing your normal 20% discount online).

I think this is done because of the serious economic stress that is going on in Spain (as well as in Portugal), such as a 21% unemployment rate.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-06-21/imf-sees-considerable-risks-to-spain-economy-urges-additional-overhauls.html

For Portugal:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-14038529

40K is a luxury that goes beyond luxury games. Games stores in that region have to still bring their month to month quota improvement (if possible) regardless how managers are restricted on what worked in the past (such as raffles and other incentives that were done a few years ago.).

Monster Rain wrote:I for one will never be playing any GW game again. I am soaking my models and Black Library novels in lighter fluid as I type this and will be smashing my computer to smithereens so as to obliterate all traces of the various Dawn of War expansions contained therein. Then I will climb atop my accelerant-soaked ruin of a hobby a set it alight, immolating myself in protest of this crime against humanity.

Yes, please do that.

Haters gonna hate.

I will let any opponent of mine re-roll a dice for a twix or a Dr. Pepper. Alternatively I am selling wins vs. myself for 10 dollars.

In fact if you have paypal I wil declare you the victor right now for Three dollars and Fifty cents!

Victories! Get them while they are hot!

Beyond GW being doing this for their most "loyal" customers.

i could see use for this else where. This would be a great idea at a charity tournament. Re-rolls for 10$

I remember something like this... at a Warmachine event, I think?

You brought in a can of food for charity, and you got either a reroll or the chance to add an extra die.

Needless to say, a LOT of food was donated to charity that day.

Warboss Gubbinz wrote:Beyond GW being doing this for their most "loyal" customers.

i could see use for this else where. This would be a great idea at a charity tournament. Re-rolls for 10$

Doubt it would happen. We ARE talking about Games Workshop you know.

infinite_array wrote:I remember something like this... at a Warmachine event, I think?

You brought in a can of food for charity, and you got either a reroll or the chance to add an extra die.

Needless to say, a LOT of food was donated to charity that day.

Yeah, I think the Breast Cancer Brawl had something similar.

Donate a given amount of money and you get some rerolls.

The differences: The money went to charity, and it was only for that one tourney were everyone knew that was going to happen.
If I understand it correctly you basicly get a card that says "reroll a dice at a Store/Tournament" when spending more than X, am I correct? And you can use said card at any time?

Vimes wrote:
If I understand it correctly you basicly get a card that says "reroll a dice at a Store/Tournament" when spending more than X, am I correct? And you can use said card at any time?

Yup... this defiantly seems like a money making scheme.

I wonder if they think anyone will actually spend 100-250 euros just to get the rerolls? Or will it be more like, 'Hey, I just accidentally spent $250 at my local GW store, and they just gave me a reroll at... any official GW tournament? Oh god why am I spending all this money. "

Do they even have tournaments in Spain?

I was listening to some wargaming podcast (I can't remember which one) where it was mentioned that at a local (non-GW) tournament they were selling re-rolls for charity.

I think this is great idea for a fun, non-cutthroat type event...but eh, GW...not so much.

Monster Rain wrote:Since 40k is such serious business, I am outraged at this shocking and horrifying development.

Surely, since the loser of every GW sanctioned game of Space Manz is immediately put to death, the very idea of altering the outcome of even one die roll is, to put it mildly, offensive. I demand that every GW Employee be fired at the very least, and I would go so far as to say that drawing and quartering the upper management wouldn't be outside the scope of punishment for the perpetration of such wanton madness.

I for one will never be playing any GW game again. I am soaking my models and Black Library novels in lighter fluid as I type this and will be smashing my computer to smithereens so as to obliterate all traces of the various Dawn of War expansions contained therein. Then I will climb atop my accelerant-soaked ruin of a hobby a set it alight, immolating myself in protest of this crime against humanity.

Quoted...for so much damn truth...

In all honesty, who cares? Really...

Gas stations (at least the ones I go to) offer me 15 cents off per gallon if I get a car wash with the gas... Those cheating swine(s?)!

Seriously, this is not encouraging cheating. All this is doing, if anything, is trying to give people a bonus for spending an obviously large amount. And besides, even IF someone showed up with one of those cards, I doubt the TO would really let that slide in a tournament. And if you're playing someone casually who tries to pop that card on you you're always welcome to pack up and not play... If someone was "dumb" or, in more realistic terms, willing to spend 100 Euro at my store I'd go ahead and give 'em some kind of perk, maybe not a re-roll, but you know, something like a free brush or something.

The sewweous argument is missing the point.

GW in Spain are giving away scotch mist.
IMHO if you are going to the trouble of having a board made up for a "promotion", you may as well be promoting a tangible offer rather than paying for something declaring a sad joke.

SkaerKrow wrote:

Vladsimpaler wrote:If it's a campaign then you're going to be adding new units/bulking up forces anyway, so it's just an extra bonus.

If not, well, it sucks but that's what it is. I'm not denying there are some cons to the idea, however overall it's a good one.

I don't have a problem with a minor rule like that being used in a store sponsored campaign, since campaigns are played for fun and rarely involve strong competition or prize support. However, does the guy that spent $500 in one month have any less right to play on a store's tables than a guy that spent $500 in ten months? This idea that you have to be constantly spending to support a store is ludicrous, and it really goes a long way to devalue the patronage of customers who have already completed their armies/figure collections.

Both players have an equal right to play on the tables. I'm not sure why you've drawn the conclusion that only people who've made a recent purchase can use a table. Not true. Anyone can.

Buzzsaw wrote:

Corrode wrote:

Buzzsaw wrote:

Vladsimpaler wrote:

Kriswall wrote:This sort of thing is pretty standard. The GW nearest me just wrapped up a 2 month campaign with bonuses. If you purchased a unit in the store to use in the campaign, you got to pick a random card from a deck. Each card corresponded to a bonus... +1S, reroll attacks, etc. There were a ton of different bonuses. That unit would keep the bonus throughout the campaign.

See, I think this is cool and a really good way of encouraging people to buy from the store. So in reality, the people who'd have less luck would be the people who don't support the store they're playing at, which I'm cool with.

Personally I think the whole business about paying 100 euros for a re-roll is pretty hilarious. If I'm playing against some Neck-beard who paid 100 euros so that he could re-roll his Lascannon's penetration dice against my Leman Russ, I'd welcome it. Because in the end, the jakes are on him, not me. I can go on with my life and go have a fun evening afterward with the ~150 dollars I didn't spend on a re-roll, and the neckbeard just spent an absurd amount of money to win a toy soldier game.

This is, ironically, a great example of why people are upset about the idea of being able to buy such perquisites; they are an unambiguous affirmation that the game is a joke, one that even the people that put it out can't take seriously.

Think that is putting it to far? Try and imagine selling something equivalent, say, the ability to take back a move or add time to your clock at a ranked chess tournament, or the ability to draw an extra card once in a game at a ranked MtG tournament.

Do none of you people have fun with the game any more? A random in-store game is just that, a fun kickabout. Official GW tournaments are jokes which no-one takes seriously. It's not even close to comparable to a ranked chess tournament.

That... was kinda my point. GW games are a joke, incapable of being taken seriously even by the people that make them. This is in contrast to chess or MtG, which can be played at many levels; dead serious or pants-on-head. GW games only have the pants-on-head speed.

As Sid points out, the people who have invested hundreds or thousands in the game sometimes find this hard to swallow.

At the same time, the "it's a crappy, unserious game that can't be played seriously" isn't... well, it isn't really a heck of an endorsement, eh?

GW are primarily concerned with hobbyists and kids who want to come in, kick some Space Marines around for an afternoon and go home happy. Something like this is a promotion that will appeal to them because it'll help when their Super Space Marine misses his Super Space Marine Attack. The people who take this stuff seriously - who play in real tournaments with proper scoring systems, who built and convert beautiful armies that require real skill to create, who think about things like a meta-game and theoryhammer - those aren't the target audience for this and never will be. All it'll achieve is to make some little Juan or Jimenez smile when Marneus El Calgario hits one more attack than he should have in their 1000pt half-painted store game, while Pablo el Tournamento is busy buying his stuff for Maelstrom and probably never even seeing this promotion exists.

Who is gonna drop a ton just for a re roll of the cubes?
note that is re roll singular.

Reading this thread is great fun. The amount of nerdrage occurring over a simple re-roll is hilarious.

In the end, a lot of this comes down to the fact that hobby communities can be very different. I play at a local GW. My community has one rule... everyone has fun. I can't tell you how many times I've heard someone say, "I lost, but the game was a lot of fun". This re-roll or the cards for stats thing adds an element of fun and chance to the game. We would embrace it. We don't look up tournament lists online. We don't allow neckbeards to destroy kids in a friendly game. We do everything we can to welcome new members into the group. We resolve rules disputes by rolling a d6 and then we forget about the dispute minutes later.

Other communities have very different priorities. Some communities are only interested in competitive play, such as tournaments, with a victory being the only option. In my experience, the losers go home unhappy and angry with themselves in such an environment. Any modification to the rules is probably unwelcome here. If you fit in this category, control your nerdrage for a second or two and realize that some people just enjoy a good game and don't really care if their opponent re-rolls a die.

Secondly, there is something to be said for a "pay where you play" mentality. Someone asked if a person who had recently made a purchase had more right to a store's resources than a person who no longer had to make any purchases as he or she had already bought everything they need. GW doesn't make a distinction. Everyone is allowed to use the tables, etc. so long as they are available. If there is an event running, you might have to sign up for it. However, the person who never makes a purchase must understand that he or she is no longer a customer, but merely someone who hangs out in the store and contributes nothing to the future existence of the store. This works for GW or any other FLGS out there. If everyone behaved this way, or everyone purchased things online for a discount, there would soon be no more brick and mortar stores you could walk into. They would all go out of business.

I know I'm just feeding the trolls here, but seriously folks... if you hate GW so much, move on with your lives. Find something productive to do. Spending so much time online complaining about something is sad and pathetic. You have the choice to walk away. Find something that brings joy into your life. Let those of us who want to have some fun, have some.

Why is reasonable criticism deemed "nerdrage" and "hate"?

Because some people can't accept the ideas of others, I don't see buying re-rolls as a feasible way to keep the game going and just increases the image that the Game is all about money. This could lead to cases where you can revive dead units after paying a massive amount of money.

I don't think I would accept the validity of someone's 'free reroll' ticket whether I was in their store or not. Why should I accept it?

Maybe if my opponent was prepared to bung *me* £100 I would change my mind.

Reasonable criticism isn't nerdrage or hate.

But wild claims like 'rich kids will just buy hundreds of rerolls and destroy the game' and 'if you don't buy models in the shop you can't play on a shop table', whilst neither nerdrage nor hate are respectively silly and untrue.

Another part of why GW is a money grabbing disrespectful company...

If a customer is loyal to GW and buys a whole lot of stuff he can be rewarded (GW's discretion) BY GW! Give him a free model or an awesome poster or a f$%^ng dice
If you give him a reroll at the tournament you are in fact giving him a reward at some elses expense.

The though that you can buy an outcome at a tournament is just unethical to me

blood reaper wrote:Because some people can't accept the ideas of others, I don't see buying re-rolls as a feasible way to keep the game going and just increases the image that the Game is all about money. This could lead to cases where you can revive dead units after paying a massive amount of money.

Jumpin' Jesus on a Pogo Stick! Of course it's about money. Why, in the name of all that's holy in the world, would you think otherwise? They are a publicly traded company, and as such, have a legal obligation to try and make as much money as possible for the stockholders. They would be remiss not to try anything and everything they can to get more money from us. I remember back when I realized corporations were greedy. I was 5. I got over it.

Also... reviving dead units after paying a massive amount of money? This is a natural consequence of being able to re-roll one isolated die roll? Excellent sensationalism. You should write for Fox News, sir. "Coming up next... a local gaming store recommends... Necromancy? Do you know what your kids are playing? Stay tuned for more!"

don't see buying re-rolls as a feasible way to keep the game going and just increases the image that the Game is all about money. This could lead to cases where you can revive dead units after paying a massive amount of money.

See actually you can’t but a re-roll. What you get, in one locale at the moment, is a re-roll or some other perk if you buy some product. that’s not actually the same as buying one outright.

Yes, if you could actually buy re-rolls, it could lead to cases where if you shell out £20 000 you can revive a dead unit. It could lead to a situation where if you have a GW sticker in your car window you get free parking at Games Day, it could lead to a situation where GW become such a mega-colossal multi-national company that Christmas Day is renamed There Is Only War day. But actually, if you could buy a re-roll for a tenner, would you? Would anyone? Okay, a couple of kids might somewhere. Do you really think that would matter given that it applies to GW run games only?

Kriswall wrote:

blood reaper wrote:Because some people can't accept the ideas of others, I don't see buying re-rolls as a feasible way to keep the game going and just increases the image that the Game is all about money. This could lead to cases where you can revive dead units after paying a massive amount of money.

Jumpin' Jesus on a Pogo Stick! Of course it's about money. Why, in the name of all that's holy in the world, would you think otherwise. They are a publicly traded company, and as such, have a legal obligation to try and make as much money as possible for the stockholders. They would be remiss not to try anything and everything they can to get more money from us. I remember back when I realized corporations were greedy. I was 5. I got over it.

Also... reviving dead units after paying a massive amount of money? This is a natural consequence of being able to re-roll one isolated die roll? Excellent sensationalism. You should write for Fox News, sir. "Coming up next... a local gaming store recommends... Necromancy? Do you know what your kids are playing? Stay tuned for more!"

I mean that they don't care for older customers and those who like the game, they don't care who buys their stuff and if Kids with parents who have cash they'll squeeze the last penny from their wallets and create more ridiculous codices with even more over powered rules without care for the rules. And the reviving units with a single dice roll is not what I mean it’s that if this got out of hand it could become that you could simply spend a certain amount of money and revive a unit you lost in the game.

This thread has been awesome for my Ignore List.

If someone spends hundreds of dollars and long hours assembling and painting an army, it isn't unreasonable for them to expect their investment to be rewarded with a chance to play a game with a tangible strategic element and competitive balance. People don't take 40k too seriously. Look at the amount of time, emotion and money that people sink into sports, fashion trends, television programs, video games and other hobbies. It's ok to take mainstream hobbies seriously, but not ok to want to see 40k approached by its developer as a legitimate game of strategy? Hypocrisy is not your friend, kids.

For a company that already has an image problem about selling people victory, this (minor) gesture sends a bad message.

If they want to reward people for spending in store they could reintroduce the Skullz promoption, where you could collect stickers until you got a freebie (often exclusive to the promotion).

Then you'd have a cool model or something instead of something as crap as a licence to cheat.

I mean that they don't care for older customers and those who like the game

they let me walk into their shop once or twice a week and play on their tables. I've spent nothing in the shop this year (I have spent online). I think that shows they care

create more ridiculous codices with even more over powered rules

Oh good heavens. Either you think they do that already, or you don't. Giving away the odd re-roll or three with specific limits on use in a limited locale has nothing to do with whether recent codices are overpowered or not (i think probably the most over-powered Codex is Space Wolves and that's not exactly new).

Howard A Treesong wrote:If they want to reward people for spending in store they could reintroduce the Skullz promoption, where you could collect stickers until you got a freebie (often exclusive to the promotion).

Then you'd have a cool model or something instead of something as crap as a licence to cheat.

This sounds like a good idea that sadly will never happen, but if it did it would be great.

SkaerKrow wrote:For a company that already has an image problem about selling people victory

Explain please. I didn't know they had such an image. Why? This is a serious question. I avoid the tournament circuit like the plague, so I may never have been exposed to this image.

Artemo wrote:

I mean that they don't care for older customers and those who like the game

they let me walk into their shop once or twice a week and play on their tables. I've spent nothing in the shop this year (I have spent online). I think that shows they care

create more ridiculous codices with even more over powered rules

Oh good heavens. Either you think they do that already, or you don't. Giving away the odd re-roll or three with specific limits on use in a limited locale has nothing to do with whether recent codices are overpowered or not (i think probably the most over-powered Codex is Space Wolves and that's not exactly new).

It was an example of the bad decisions they make, I will agree with you about the Space Wolves though.

I think it would be nice if they did do a 'free product' sort of promotion. But they seem to have moved well away from giving product away free under any circumstances whatsoever.

I think we've gone past the news and rumors part of this story and gone into "Dakka Discussion".

Can we move this thread out of here, now?

Every News and Rumors thread turns into a discussion after a couple of posts. What's the difference?

Howard A Treesong wrote:If they want to reward people for spending in store they could reintroduce the Skullz promoption, where you could collect stickers until you got a freebie (often exclusive to the promotion).

Then you'd have a cool model or something instead of something as crap as a licence to cheat.

The Skullz program would be a fantastic way to get some mileage out of those test sculpts that we so often see, but never make it into the market for whatever reason. Even if a model is only test quality (which for GW's sculptors is usually pretty good), if you make it limited/hard to get that immediately makes it more desirable. It would also allow GW to offer something that no other retailer possibly can, since the only way to get Skullz would be to buy through the webstore or an official GW retailer.

that they get moved when the news and rumor part dries up. Like this one.

sn0zcumb3r wrote:Another part of why GW is a money grabbing disrespectful company...

If a customer is loyal to GW and buys a whole lot of stuff he can be rewarded (GW's discretion) BY GW! Give him a free model or an awesome poster or a f$%^ng dice
If you give him a reroll at the tournament you are in fact giving him a reward at some elses expense.

The though that you can buy an outcome at a tournament is just unethical to me

It's Throne of Skulls, which is about as far from a real tournament as you can get. This will be one more dumb fun thing in a weekend of dumb fun things that nobody cares about. In the meantime, anyone running an actual tournament will continue to happily ignore it.

For the rest of you nancies getting all upset about this and going on about BUYING WHOLE UNITS BACK FROM THE DEAD: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slippery_slope_fallacy#The_slippery_slope_as_fallacy

Kriswall wrote:Reading this thread is great fun. The amount of nerdrage occurring over a simple re-roll is hilarious.

Indeed

H.B.M.C. wrote:So we've had Kan and Redbeard in here to defend it. We just need Mystery to make an appearance and we'll have the Dakka Trifecta.

Unlike you, who seem to be just paranoid enough to find malice and incompetence in every decision GW makes. For years now. Honestly, why do you even still care, shouldn't you have moved on years ago? We get it, you don't like any decision GW has made in the last decade. But you're still here. I don't know if that says more about GW or you.

SkaerKrow wrote:
If someone spends hundreds of dollars and long hours assembling and painting an army, it isn't unreasonable for them to expect their investment to be rewarded with a chance to play a game with a tangible strategic element and competitive balance.

It is if they ever read the rules. Seriously? Tangible strategic element? Competitive Balance? Are you new here? GW doesn't have competitive balance, and never has. The closest they get to competitive balance is a consistent effort at making the newest book the best. Tangible Strategic Element? Like having long-range artillery pieces placed within small-arms range of your opponent to begin the game? Like running your uber-hero smack into whatever unit your opponent has and watching him chop them to bits?

You want a game with a tangible strategic element and competitive balance, go play chess. GW games aren't about that, aren't designed for that, and require quite a bit of third-party work to even be functional in a competitive setting (RE: Nova FAQ, INAT, etc.)

..., but not ok to want to see 40k approached by its developer as a legitimate game of strategy? Hypocrisy is not your friend, kids.

No, that's not ok. Because it shows that you're missing the point entirely. GW has stated, publicly and repeatedly, that their games are not suitable for the sort of uber-competitive tournament play that some of their fans (not sure whether to call them customers) want. They have stated, time and again, that their game development strategy is aimed squarely at the casual gamer. This is not some hidden agenda. They're not trying to fool anyone, they're not trying to trick you into thinking that they're making a finely-tuned balanced game, they're being upfront about their design goals. If you want more than that from them, you're looking in the wrong place, and you should save yourself the aggravation of having to deal with this by finding yourself a different game to play. GW games are not going to be what you seem to want them to be. That's on you, not them, they're not doing this in secret - and it's a really poor choice of words to call their behaviour hypocrisy. They're doing what they've always said they do.

If anything, their hypocritical actions are the ones that see them organizing and running tournaments, but this seems to be more about bowing to demand from the sales/events teams rather than something the design studio is backing.

For a company that already has an image problem about selling people victory, this (minor) gesture sends a bad message.

I am aware that GW has many image problems. Selling victory is not one that I'm aware of. Compared to a game like M:TG, where the 'good' cards sell for hundreds of dollars, there's nothing in GW's games that has any substantial impact on their price-to-win ratio.

The actions of one retail arm of a company cannot be held as some exemplar of their development strategy or principles. That, like most of this thread, is ludicrous.

May only be a branch of GW but it still reflects on the company as a whole.

In isolation this is but a butterly farting in a teapot.
But it is on the back of all the recent PR gaffs it adds to the stink.

For those who think it´s a joke, no, IT´S TRUE!

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/811/gwnosgustaestafarte.jpg/

I translate:

Events table of the store area:

For purchases over.... Events (cumulative)

100€ - You can repeat a die in a GW store
150€ - Shipping to your home for free
200€ - Direct access to the Forgeworld area without waiting in the crowd
250€ - You can repeat a die in an official GW tournament.

It's just a gimmick. Besides, it only effects someone who plays in a GW store.

In the end, will one single dice roll change the game?

We are talking GW games here.
So yes. See: WHFB Magic. That Purple Sun that misfired? Nope, it just went right through the entire dwarf army.

Everyone who doesn't like this new system, just don't play at your local GW.

Let the big spenders use up their re-rolls on each other.

Corrode wrote:

sn0zcumb3r wrote:Another part of why GW is a money grabbing disrespectful company...

If a customer is loyal to GW and buys a whole lot of stuff he can be rewarded (GW's discretion) BY GW! Give him a free model or an awesome poster or a f$%^ng dice
If you give him a reroll at the tournament you are in fact giving him a reward at some elses expense.

The though that you can buy an outcome at a tournament is just unethical to me

It's Throne of Skulls, which is about as far from a real tournament as you can get. This will be one more dumb fun thing in a weekend of dumb fun things that nobody cares about. In the meantime, anyone running an actual tournament will continue to happily ignore it.

For the rest of you nancies getting all upset about this and going on about BUYING WHOLE UNITS BACK FROM THE DEAD: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slippery_slope_fallacy#The_slippery_slope_as_fallacy

It's unsporting.

As to the slippery slope, you're likely right. But... Consider microtransactions in MMO games, coupled with GW being run by people with no interest in the gaming or 'The Hhhhhhobby' and it's not in the realms of far flung imagination.

Kilkrazy wrote:Everyone who doesn't like this new system, just don't play at your local GW.

Let the big spenders use up their re-rolls on each other.

Not a problem as they closed almost all the stores in the Southeast. I'm just bracing for the influx of rich Spaniards flying over to the US and rerolling with wild abandon at official tournies, all the while rubbing it in on us former colonials with their lisping accents. Dark days indeed...

Latest news:
Spend £100 get a re roll
Spend £200 get a Rickroll

MeanGreenStompa wrote:

Corrode wrote:

sn0zcumb3r wrote:Another part of why GW is a money grabbing disrespectful company...

If a customer is loyal to GW and buys a whole lot of stuff he can be rewarded (GW's discretion) BY GW! Give him a free model or an awesome poster or a f$%^ng dice
If you give him a reroll at the tournament you are in fact giving him a reward at some elses expense.

The though that you can buy an outcome at a tournament is just unethical to me

It's Throne of Skulls, which is about as far from a real tournament as you can get. This will be one more dumb fun thing in a weekend of dumb fun things that nobody cares about. In the meantime, anyone running an actual tournament will continue to happily ignore it.

For the rest of you nancies getting all upset about this and going on about BUYING WHOLE UNITS BACK FROM THE DEAD: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slippery_slope_fallacy#The_slippery_slope_as_fallacy

It's unsporting.

As to the slippery slope, you're likely right. But... Consider microtransactions in MMO games, coupled with GW being run by people with no interest in the gaming or 'The Hhhhhhobby' and it's not in the realms of far flung imagination.

The brilliance that is micro-transactions is much too much like solid business sense for GW to embrace!

I guess having not set foot in a GW store in probably half a year now I just don't see the fuss. Maybe there's some poor souls playing high-end competitive games in their local GW but that's not been my experience.

Kilkrazy wrote:Everyone who doesn't like this new system, just don't play at your local GW.

Let the big spenders use up their re-rolls on each other.

This.

And for crying out loud, it's GW Spain. How many of you play in GW Spain stores? Have you ever seen a few Spanish women? They gotta do something to get people into the stores.

Also, as someone that is in a GW Store 3+ times a week for 5+ hours, I never play a game in GW Stores.

But at least you kids are running out of things to rage about for a day or two. I guess that's progress.

So what if it is in Spain? It is still a crap idea
Again I see no rage, just a lot of extracting of urine.

Chibi Bodge-Battle wrote:So what if it is in Spain? It is still a crap idea
Again I see no rage, just a lot of extracting of urine.

What does "extracting of urine" mean? Is that some sort of Queen's English saying?

It´s a stupid idea because as somebody said before why the need for a GW middleman?
If we are going this way (not that I think we will nor do I care as I don´t play in "official" places) for each 5€ my opponent gives me I´ll crumble a rank of skellies, for 50€ my TG will charge the flank of a unit of their choosing and for 100€ Khalida jumps ship and kills the Hierophant

M

Well fortunately they can't pull these shenanigans in Australia because there are no GW run-tournaments here in the land down under.

At the GW sometimes there are 'giffles' with prizes like framed artworks (which in reality are just print-offs) and on occasion there are 'tournaments' (a term I use very loosely in this circumstance) in store (which are pretty much a joke) which require a $5/$10 entry fee which all goes towards a gift voucher for the winner.

Thankfully they have not stooped to the level of allowing those with money to get bonuses, but I fear this might become a reality in the near future. I just hope the Storm of Magic Campaign doesn't go this way...

Well, i'm not going to spain to play 40k any time soon, so I suppose i'm safe from the terror! THE TERROR!

Seriously though, id rather just get some free dice lumped in with my order than a reroll.

Extracting the urine = Taking the mock
polite form of saying taking the pee.

To mock, make fun of.

Precisely Gp, how much would it cost them to chuck a bag of dice in with the receipt for an order over 100Euros?
Makes far more sense as a goodwill gesture.

GW keeping it classy as always.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
New promotion idea! Money tank! A new superheavy tank with devastating firepower will be sent to each GW store. For all other intents its treated like a piece of terrain, but depending on how much money said player has spent that day, he may fire a certain number of its guns once per game.

I've saved the company!

Damn, sorry for the duplicate thread guys.

I missed this!

Indeed, all the posts so far have been spot on the mark, and lol-inducing.

If GW begins selling victory, they are heading down the path taken by most MMORPGs... the kid with the richest parents wins!

Well I'm late to the party ...

How much to get an apology from Matt Ward?

Or an apology from Alessio and Gav Thorpe (while they punch each other)?

evilsponge wrote:GW keeping it classy as always.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
New promotion idea! Money tank! A new superheavy tank with devastating firepower will be sent to each GW store. For all other intents its treated like a piece of terrain, but depending on how much money said player has spent that day, he may fire a certain number of its guns once per game.

I've saved the company!

Chibi Bodge-Battle wrote:Latest news:
Spend £100 get a re roll
Spend £200 get a Rickroll

Are you ever going to give that up?

I'd be a bit let down if he did.

lol
Took a while for the penny to drop.
Not quite awake yet.

Never gonna let you down MoD

Huzzah he got it...

lol
Have forced myself to watch it on a loop as penance.
Feel very chastised now after such grueling punishment!

Warboss Gubbinz wrote:Beyond GW being doing this for their most "loyal" customers.

i could see use for this else where. This would be a great idea at a charity tournament. Re-rolls for 10$

Charity involves giving money to other people. We're talking about GW.

I can't stop laughing at this idea
I just find it hilarious
You pay to get a re-roll in a store, but how on earth could you force anyone to abide by this? Who would agree to it in anything other than a campaign run at a store or little children who would just go along with it

But of course there'd be someone out there willing to pay 150 for ONE re-roll. Whoever comes up with these marketing strategies must be a genius.
I swear to god, burning your money would make more sense

I can't stop laughing at the fact that people still fail to grasp that this isn't "Pay 100E and get a reroll" like the charity events that do this.

It's "Buy 100E worth of stuff and get a ticket saying you get a reroll, which can only be used in GW stores."

Well as long as everyone is laughing all is to the good

Kanluwen wrote:I can't stop laughing at the fact that people still fail to grasp that this isn't "Pay 100E and get a reroll" like the charity events that do this.

It's "Buy 100E worth of stuff and get a ticket saying you get a reroll, which can only be used in GW stores."

You know Kan, you shouldn't go making assumptions about what people understand or know
In fact my statement was discussing whether people would abide to it, which noone will at any point

Asuron wrote:I can't stop laughing at this idea
I just find it hilarious
You pay to get a re-roll in a store, but how on earth could you force anyone to abide by this? Who would agree to it in anything other than a campaign run at a store or little children who would just go along with it

But of course there'd be someone out there willing to pay 150 for ONE re-roll. Whoever comes up with these marketing strategies must be a genius.
I swear to god, burning your money would make more sense

Uhhuh. Clearly, you grasp the concept oh so well.

I can't think of anyone sane who would pay 150E for one reroll in a pick-up game.
I can't even think of anyone who would do it for a tournament unless there's a 1000E prize or higher on the line.

Or they wear money as underwear, etc.

Kanluwen wrote:

Asuron wrote:I can't stop laughing at this idea
I just find it hilarious
You pay to get a re-roll in a store, but how on earth could you force anyone to abide by this? Who would agree to it in anything other than a campaign run at a store or little children who would just go along with it

But of course there'd be someone out there willing to pay 150 for ONE re-roll. Whoever comes up with these marketing strategies must be a genius.
I swear to god, burning your money would make more sense

Uhhuh. Clearly, you grasp the concept oh so well.

I can't think of anyone sane who would pay 150E for one reroll in a pick-up game.
I can't even think of anyone who would do it for a tournament unless there's a 1000E prize or higher on the line.

Or they wear money as underwear, etc.

Definitely, people buy things, they get a re-roll. Simple concept, but I guess I have neither the intelligence nor the reading ability to grasp it.
Its lucky your here Kan to explain it, your staggering intellect is a boon to us all

Anyways I guess I pose the question to everyone here, would you ever let someone do a reroll if they were playing you regardless of the type of game you were engaged in?

Asuron wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:

Asuron wrote:I can't stop laughing at this idea
I just find it hilarious
You pay to get a re-roll in a store, but how on earth could you force anyone to abide by this? Who would agree to it in anything other than a campaign run at a store or little children who would just go along with it

But of course there'd be someone out there willing to pay 150 for ONE re-roll. Whoever comes up with these marketing strategies must be a genius.
I swear to god, burning your money would make more sense

Uhhuh. Clearly, you grasp the concept oh so well.

I can't think of anyone sane who would pay 150E for one reroll in a pick-up game.
I can't even think of anyone who would do it for a tournament unless there's a 1000E prize or higher on the line.

Or they wear money as underwear, etc.

Definitely, people buy things, they get a re-roll. Simple concept, but I guess I have neither the intelligence nor the reading ability to grasp it.
Its lucky your here Kan to explain it, your staggering intellect is a boon to us all

Your statement was that "you pay to get a reroll in the store". That's not true.
You pay for whatever product you're buying. This is, as I said earlier on, not a new thing for GW. Every so often you see it crop up at their shops when they think they're going to be have an influx of new players to systems that they're unfamiliar with.

If you're going to be all high and mighty about something, at least be right when you do it.

WTF what a scam.

And with that well-informed statement, completely without having read any form of explanation, I think we can calmly say that this thread has hit the peak of misinformation.

Your statement was that "you pay to get a reroll in the store". That's not true.
You pay for whatever product you're buying. This is, as I said earlier on, not a new thing for GW. Every so often you see it crop up at their shops when they think they're going to be have an influx of new players to systems that they're unfamiliar with.

If you're going to be all high and mighty about something, at least be right when you do it.

But if your buying products and getting the free re-roll, are you not essentiallly paying to get a re-roll in their store, along with those goods? So in essence you are paying to get a re-roll in a store?

That is the concept of buying something yes? You trade goods to receive other goods?
But its strange you focus on this, when my comment was more geared towards whether anyone would abide to this, which I've mentioned twice now

Whats more strange is that you tell me I'm being "high and mighty" while making subtle digs at my intelligence. Whats stranger yet, despite me showing you that I clearly grasp the concept, you seem to want to keep harping on it for some reason.

Kanluwen wrote:

Asuron wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:

Asuron wrote:I can't stop laughing at this idea
I just find it hilarious
You pay to get a re-roll in a store, but how on earth could you force anyone to abide by this? Who would agree to it in anything other than a campaign run at a store or little children who would just go along with it

But of course there'd be someone out there willing to pay 150 for ONE re-roll. Whoever comes up with these marketing strategies must be a genius.
I swear to god, burning your money would make more sense

Uhhuh. Clearly, you grasp the concept oh so well.

I can't think of anyone sane who would pay 150E for one reroll in a pick-up game.
I can't even think of anyone who would do it for a tournament unless there's a 1000E prize or higher on the line.

Or they wear money as underwear, etc.

Definitely, people buy things, they get a re-roll. Simple concept, but I guess I have neither the intelligence nor the reading ability to grasp it.
Its lucky your here Kan to explain it, your staggering intellect is a boon to us all

Your statement was that "you pay to get a reroll in the store". That's not true.
You pay for whatever product you're buying. This is, as I said earlier on, not a new thing for GW. Every so often you see it crop up at their shops when they think they're going to be have an influx of new players to systems that they're unfamiliar with.

If you're going to be all high and mighty about something, at least be right when you do it.

Fatality! Kanluwen wins.

As crazy as it sounds, Kanluwen is right.

Plus, think about it like this. Over the course of a game, you roll hundreds (thousands if you play orks ). What's ONE re-roll going to do?

If you think I'm making "subtle digs at your intelligence", I don't know what to tell you.

I'm not calling you stupid, Asuron.

I'm calling the righteous indignation about what is entirely a marketing tool that has been used quite a few times in GW's history(usually around the time they do a campaign or relaunch a game system from what I've seen) stupid. Especially because it's never been called a "cash grab" or "pay to win" in those instances.

But now, like every thing they do, there's no shortage of individuals to call it as some kind of great big insidious thing.

Kanluwen wrote:If you think I'm making "subtle digs at your intelligence", I don't know what to tell you.

I'm not calling you stupid, Asuron.

I'm calling the righteous indignation about what is entirely a marketing tool that has been used quite a few times in GW's history(usually around the time they do a campaign or relaunch a game system from what I've seen) stupid. Especially because it's never been called a "cash grab" or "pay to win" in those instances.

But now, like every thing they do, there's no shortage of individuals to call it as some kind of great big insidious thing.

Well since its in Spain, I don't care
I wouldn't care if it was implemented at my local store either.
You know why? Because noone would ever be able to use it, at least in regular games, noone would tolerate it outside of store run events

Its not insidious, just stupid as a promotion. The free blister or box that someone else mentioned earlier on would be a far better idea and promote much better goodwill among consumers
Hence why I found it funny, its just a silly idea

A re-roll doesn't cost the company anything.

Giving away product does.

Monster Rain wrote:A re-roll doesn't cost the company anything.

Giving away product does.

Indeed. Giving away product also futzes with the stock levels of the store, while printing up vouchers for things like a 'free reroll' just costs you some printer ink and paper.

Monster Rain wrote:A re-roll doesn't cost the company anything.

Giving away product does.

But gains you customer loyalty and goodwill, giving better chances for future sales
A reroll gives the customer nothing and the company gains the equivalent

Kanluwen wrote:

Monster Rain wrote:A re-roll doesn't cost the company anything.

Giving away product does.

Indeed. Giving away product also futzes with the stock levels of the store, while printing up vouchers for things like a 'free reroll' just costs you some printer ink and paper.

The cost of which is greatly offset by the (my keyboard doesn't have a Pounds sign)100 that was spent to get the voucher.

Asuron wrote:

Monster Rain wrote:A re-roll doesn't cost the company anything.

Giving away product does.

But gains you customer loyalty and goodwill, giving better chances for future sales
A reroll gives the customer nothing and the company gains the equivalent

No, but people talk about it and some people will probably spend the 100 just to get the re-roll. There's a sucker born every minute.

Even promotions are geared toward making a profit, you know.

lol, if someone whipped out a "1 free re roll" it would all depend on what it was for on whether i'd let it slide, if it was for to hit with a lasgun, i'd be like "sure, if it was a failed save on a terminator or a crappy roll on a penetration result on my land raider, i'd say "get that thing the feth out of here"

hipocritical:yes
do i care: not really

i remember when i went to chicago gamesday 2005 me, my brother, friend and mom all went, and everyone got a free SM veteran, luckily, i am the only SM player, so i got 4 "free" models. free is in quotes because there was still admission price

GW stores can't handle stock control
This is why there are never any freebies.

And there was me thinking it was because they are just a miserable bunch of tight wads.

The latter certainly plays a bigger part than the first, Chibster.

I see the church is selling indulgences again.

I have already nailed my worms to the gates in protest Moopy...

wait...

not sure if I have that quite right?

I'm trying to imagine nailing a worm to something. It seems messy and difficult.

Moopy wrote:I see the church is selling indulgences again.

So... a retail store giving away a small concession in an isolated game is equivalent to the Catholic Church selling indulgences? Wow.

Also, to all those who say this will never fly... when I was a hobby manager we did this sort of thing all the time. The only people who ever complained about it were generally considered to be "hobby douches" by the community. Their words, not mine. If your goal is fun, this sort of thing is no issue. If your goal is to crush your enemies, see them driven before you and hear the lamentations of their women, perhaps you shouldn't be playing a game that is rated for ages 12+.

Actually, that much for a reroll proves PT Barnum was right.

Again... the reroll doesn't cost anything. PT Barnum would likely have no comment regarding a person spending 100euro for 100euro worth of gaming items and receiving a one time, minor advantage for said game.

Dear Marjorie,

My goal is to have fun
But I think re roll chits are a rubbish idea and have said so.

Does this make me a hobby douche?

Yours
Angsty of Nether Wuthering

Chibi Bodge-Battle wrote:Does this make me a hobby douche?

To a lot of people, yes it does. To others, it does not. I don't actually play very often (more in it for the fluff and painting), and I'm not likely to ever play with you, so I couldn't care less.

Also, it's not a cheat if it's endorsed by the company that makes the game at company sponsored locations and events. If you don't want to use the re-roll, simply don't participate in said company events.

Really?
A lot of people think I am a douche because my opinion about this differs from yours?

tut tut old thing, jolly poor form to name call and hide behind a group of anonymous gamers.

At least have the balls to take responsibility for your accusations and take responsibility for your words.

You clearly have no idea how promotions work, kriswall.

Chibi Bodge-Battle wrote:Really?
A lot of people think I am a douche because my opinion about this differs from yours?

tut tut old thing, jolly poor form to name call and hide behind a group of anonymous gamers.

At least have the balls to take responsibility for your accusations and take responsibility for your words.

I know this may come as a complete and total shock, but yes, people tend to not like people with differing opinions. I don't know you. If we met, we might become great friends. We might not. I have no idea. It's unlikely to happen.

Also, I didn't name call anyone. Reread my post. I said the community I managed called certain types of people "hobby douches". I never used that term while working. It would have been unprofessional and bad business to insult any market segment. In my personal gaming, I tend to be fiercely competitive. If someone forgets to shoot with a unit or forgets to roll for reserves, tough. Not my problem. I don't give mulligans. But this isn't about my personal gaming habits.

Also, on a lighter note... I am watching Gordon Ramsey's Kitchen Nightmares right now and he just used the taking the piss out of someone phrase and I knew what it meant! lol... the internet is good for something after all!

Kriswall wrote:
Also, I didn't name call anyone. Reread my post. I said the community I managed called certain types of people "hobby douches". I never used that term while working. It would have been unprofessional and bad business to insult any market segment. In my personal gaming, I tend to be fiercely competitive. If someone forgets to shoot with a unit or forgets to roll for reserves, tough. Not my problem. I don't give mulligans. But this isn't about my personal gaming habits.

And some people could classify you under the "hobby douche" label. So what?

So because people's opions matter they are Hobby douches? That's just ridiculous You know that people will also call you a hobby douche and will because they don't agree with you're opion, anyone who lacks the justification and a valid reason to call someone a douche because they think someone's opion is not their liking is a fool.

Kriswall wrote: If your goal is to crush your enemies, see them driven before you and hear the lamentations of their women, perhaps you shouldn't be playing a game that is rated for ages 12+.

I like how fairness and balance and playing by the rules is always associated with "WAAC" or "hobby douchery". Just fething nice.

And I'm not sure I see why the age rating matters. A lot of people take chess seriously and I don't remember that game being higher than 12+.

You are accussing me, and by implication others, of being a hobby douce. It is not sufficient to put it in inverted commas and try to remain distanced from the comment.

I play games for fun, but that has been ignored by "the community" for which you are speaking. Which is what they presumably do.
Apart from which, some people enjoy tournies and taking games far more seriously than I ever will.
Not something I understand myself, but that is their hobby and passion.

Neither you nor I have any right to dictate attitudes.
They are not hobby douches for taking the game seriously.

To be fair I think he was just trying to prove that this idea might be more popular than people are willing to believe, and citing his own personal experience as a manager in a hobby store. He clearly doesn't believe that way, he's just saying that the majority of people in his community were idiots and ate that crap up.

Well, "clearly"...I'm honestly not sure what Kriswall thinks. At one point he says "If you try winning games you shouldn't be playing a game with a 12+ rating" (which in my opinion is bs, you can't judge a game based on it's age rating and use that as proof that the game shouldn't be taken seriously, like I said chess sure as hell isn't listed as being an 18+ game and there are people who play that competitively for sure), and then goes on to say that he personally is fiercely competitive and doesn't allow bs like re-rolls and take-backs.

Well I am so competitive I got beaten by a 9 tear old on Thursday cos I allowed him re rolls and reinforcements
It was a hoot!

And to be fair from what I recall Krisswell's system was a lot more sensible than the one in Spain if I understood correctly.

To take an example, is it reasonable to expect someone who has spent 80-90 euros, to buy a blister or two more than they otherwise would, just to have a ticket for a re roll?
Know I wouldn't
on the other hand a more tangible offer of a model/discount would be more of an incentive to spend a little more cash.

Spending extra cash for a re roll ticket sounds like money for old rope to me.

The only peole it could possibly have any appeal to are the customers that were going to spend a ton anyways. This is why I fail to see what inducement there is in the promo.

But what do I know. I only worked in an art store. We used to give sketchbooks if you spent over a given amount. It represented 10% of the purchase value to the customer iirc.
On the other hand it only cost the store its cost value.

If someone was already going to spend that amount then it is still a goodwill gesture and made up for by people spending a bit more to get the sketchbook, cos they are useful things.

Have sketchbook, will travel.

Jesus Christ. I don't know why I try to reason with you people. Here are my points. I'll spell it out so even the slow people can understand.

1. Giving away re-rolls with a large purchase is a perfectly valid marketing tool.
2. If you don't like it or think it's some form of cheating, play elsewhere or agree with your opponent not to use the re-roll beforehand.
3. People who prioritize winning over having fun are considered douches by my former hobby community.
4. I prioritize winning over having fun. My wife gives me crap about it all the time.

Also... Sidstyler... I would appreciate it if you didn't put words in my mouth. I never said people in my community were idiots. If you're going to quote someone, use their words.

Now we are slow to understand
way to win hearts and minds

Sketchbooks are a necessity for most artists, and there's not going to be a huge variation or possible selection for the customer.

'Blisters' for 40k, however, can go from single characters to fairly big things like Avatars. There's no real 'single set value' that can be applied to blisters, and at the same time there's a huge selection from Eldar Warlocks to Zoanthropes, etc.

Putting it bluntly, there's not that big of a comparison between "Free sketchbooks!" and "Free blister".

Chibi Bodge-Battle wrote:To take an example, is it reasonable to expect someone who has spent 80-90 euros, to buy a blister or two more than they otherwise would, just to have a ticket for a re roll?
Know I wouldn't
on the other hand a more tangible offer of a model/discount would be more of an incentive to spend a little more cash.
...
The only peole it could possibly have any appeal to are the customers that were going to spend a ton anyways. This is why I fail to see what inducement there is in the promo.
...
But what do I know. I only worked in an art store. We used to give sketchbooks if you spent over a given amount. It represented 10% of the purchase value to the customer iirc.
On the other hand it only cost the store its cost value.

As you haven't sold to gamers, I'll give you some insight. Assume a customer is at the 90euro mark. I say, "Hey, you're only 10euro away from getting a re-roll in our event on Saturday. Is there anything you might need? Glue? New paint? That bitchin' new Finecast piece you've been looking at?" You'd be surprised how many people look around and add enough to hit the threshold for a re-roll. In my experience, maybe 9 out of 10 if they regularly play in the store - 0 out of 10 if they don't. As a store operator it's a good thing because it generates sales without costing anything.

Vladsimpaler wrote:What's ONE re-roll going to do?

It can turn the tide of a game, if used wisely.

A sketchbook also comes in many forms and price ranges.

It surely cannot be beyond the wit of a GW employee
to limit the value of the blister. In anycase, that was purely used as "an example" and not prescriptive.

I dunno, some of my customers might have been gamers.

No I wouldn't be surprised as there is nowt as queer as folk. But as I said above from what I understand of how you ran the promo, customers weren't having to spend a ton to get that roll, and it seemed a more reasonable approach.

I wasn't trying to put words in your mouth, that's my personal opinion I injected in there. I think they sound like idiots. Though looking back at how I had that worded I can see why you'd think that way, so I apologize for the confusion.

As for your post:

1. Maybe, I won't argue over it's validity. But I'm saying that I think GW is making a mistake, cheapening its own game and sending out the wrong message.
2. I will indeed play elsewhere, and if my opponent tries to force the re-roll on me then I'll avoid playing with that person.
3. Why can't you do both? Why does Dakka and the 40k community in general insist on thinking in black and white? I play to win and I aim to have fun in the process. I would prefer not to play with people who aren't even going to try, and will berate me for not letting them win, like fething children.
4. Well as long as you play with like-minded people I don't see the harm, but like I said, I personally think it's possible to do both.

on the other hand a more tangible offer of a model/discount would be more of an incentive to spend a little more cash.

Exactly, and this is what some other companies do. Gives the customer a real benefit without cheapening your product and tarnishing your reputation in the process. And it would probably draw in a much bigger crowd since I'm sure lots of people would love to get a few extra models instead of a stupid re-roll.

The only peole it could possibly have any appeal to are the customers that were going to spend a ton anyways. This is why I fail to see what inducement there is in the promo.

And I don't like the message that sends, either. I don't think you should be able to affect the outcome of a game simply because you have deeper pockets than your opponent. Even though one could argue that a single die-roll isn't exactly game-changing, not only are you wrong because anything that affects the game like that shouldn't be allowed in the first place (unless a character or rule grants the ability to re-roll something obviously) no matter how minor it might seem, but sometimes games do come down to a single roll, and the ability to have that kind of influence at a tournament of all things is pure bs. I wouldn't ever attend an event if I knew this kind of crap was going to be allowed, unless it's something like the event someone mentioned earlier on, which was meant for charity and had a laid-back attitude.

I think it's okay to take a game seriously. I also think it's okay to play a game with a silly attitude and not care about what you're doing at all. And on top of that, I think it's possible to be a gamer and play both ways, having a fun "bs" mode and a serious "competitive" mode and busting either one out when it's appropriate.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Kanluwen wrote:Sketchbooks are a necessity for most artists, and there's not going to be a huge variation or possible selection for the customer.

'Blisters' for 40k, however, can go from single characters to fairly big things like Avatars. There's no real 'single set value' that can be applied to blisters, and at the same time there's a huge selection from Eldar Warlocks to Zoanthropes, etc.

Putting it bluntly, there's not that big of a comparison between "Free sketchbooks!" and "Free blister".

I beg to differ, because sketchbooks do in fact come in different sizes with different values...for example, from Dick Blick. I clicked on a few random links and saw no less than three different sizes for each one.

The prices don't seem to vary quite as much as GW blisters do (the aforementioned avatar being $38...wow that's ridiculous), but I think the comparison is more valid than you're giving it credit for.

Also, seriously, how hard is it to say "blister valued at $20 or less"? You're making it sound like such a promotion would just be physically impossible for GW because of the wildly varying value of blister packs, but you could very easily solve that problem by setting a limit for the value of the free blister. $20 or less would be equivalent to one character, and not anything really big like the Avatar, either. Problem solved. :\

Sidstyler wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:Sketchbooks are a necessity for most artists, and there's not going to be a huge variation or possible selection for the customer.

'Blisters' for 40k, however, can go from single characters to fairly big things like Avatars. There's no real 'single set value' that can be applied to blisters, and at the same time there's a huge selection from Eldar Warlocks to Zoanthropes, etc.

Putting it bluntly, there's not that big of a comparison between "Free sketchbooks!" and "Free blister".

I beg to differ, because sketchbooks do in fact come in different sizes with different values...for example, from Dick Blick. I clicked on a few random links and saw no less than three different sizes for each one.

The prices don't seem to vary quite as much as GW blisters do (the aforementioned avatar being $38...wow that's ridiculous), but I think the comparison is more valid than you're giving it credit for.

Also, seriously, how hard is it to say "blister valued at $20 or less"? You're making it sound like such a promotion would just be physically impossible for GW because of the wildly varying value of blister packs, but you could very easily solve that problem by setting a limit for the value of the free blister. $20 or less would be equivalent to one character, and not anything really big like the Avatar, either. Problem solved. :\

You're exactly right that it would be easy to say "Blister valued at $20 or less"--but then think of how much fething whining we'd have here.

"What? No fair! X players can get a FREE character that is actually worth using if they buy a Battleforce!" styled comments galore.

There's no winning, don't you think?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I should further clarify:
There are plenty of characters under $20. Many of them are just generic, filler ones that I'm not sure how many people would actually want.

Can't resist pun...

This thread makes me "roll" with laughter...

I could see someone maybe being upset if they spent a lot of money on product a week or two before the sale and didn't know about it, possibly feeling "cheated" out of their freebie, but that kind of thing happens with every sale I imagine. I can't tell you how many times I've seen people get annoyed when they buy a game on Steam, and then see it go on sale a few weeks later for a deep discount.

Personally though I think more people would be grateful for that kind of thing than not, which is why stores usually do sales in the first place, they bring in more traffic than they would have gotten otherwise and the few people that would be upset about it are overshadowed by all the others coming in to spend money just because of the sale. Even if those few people were so upset they missed out on their free blister that they quit the hobby (which I really doubt), why would GW care, they got that money already, and GW is all about short term profits, right?

Kriswall wrote:Jesus Christ. I don't know why I try to reason with you people. Here are my points. I'll spell it out so even the slow people can understand.

1. Giving away re-rolls with a large purchase is a perfectly valid marketing tool.
2. If you don't like it or think it's some form of cheating, play elsewhere or agree with your opponent not to use the re-roll beforehand.
3. People who prioritize winning over having fun are considered douches by my former hobby community.
4. I prioritize winning over having fun. My wife gives me crap about it all the time.

Also... Sidstyler... I would appreciate it if you didn't put words in my mouth. I never said people in my community were idiots. If you're going to quote someone, use their words.

I don't know why you're bothering either.

People who think it isn't a valid marketing tool think it isn't a valid marketing tool.

You have said that makes them "hobby douches".

That's never going to change their minds about it.

There is no point continuing the discussion.