I've heard multiple times that the Alpha Legion had 2 primarchs. Anyone know the story behind it? And whats the deal with the Alpha Legion in the current 40k universe? I know they are traitors Im just wondering if there is any books about them or what not.

1 was called Alpharius and the other one was called Omegon.
They were twins... they still are i suppose depending on who you listen to...
The Alpha Legion are... complicated...

They are twins, Alpharius and Omegon. One lead the Legion, the other was head of the Alpha Legion special forces although it is possibly they swapped around a bit.

According to the Smurfs Robute killed Alpharius after the HH, but it is possibly... nay probable this was but a deception by the alpha legion.

Considering even the Ultramarines aren't sure of the kill and the fact the Alpha Legion has reputedly been wiped out 3 times in its long history and the fact that they managed to alter some Inquisition records on themselves as well as the fact that numerous Alpha Legion warlords have come forwards claiming to be Alpharius...
Well it's likely the b*st*d is alive and well and causing havoc.

Ya I've tryed to find more info about the Alpha Legion online and what not and there are never any clear answers. My brother plays them and loves there background and everything. But they really just dont make any sense to me with how they are one of the first chapters but so little is known about their current primarchs

Spartan 117 wrote:Ya I've tryed to find more info about the Alpha Legion online and what not and there are never any clear answers. My brother plays them and loves there background and everything. But they really just dont make any sense to me with how they are one of the first LEGIONS but so little is known about their current primarchs

Fixed that for you.

It is because deception is thier thing, it is what they do.

Pretty much what the purple one has said.

Also, I'd really recommend reading this book:

Secrets and Lies!

Though at the end, you'll have more questions than answers.

Still, it is a fun ride!

Alpharius wrote:Pretty much what the purple one has said.

Also, I'd really recommend reading this book:

Secrets and Lies!

Though at the end, you'll have more questions than answers.

Still, it is a fun ride!

It's like Lost... in space... with guns... and aliens... and space marines...
Okay it isn't like Lost at all.

purplefood wrote:

Alpharius wrote:Pretty much what the purple one has said.

Also, I'd really recommend reading this book:

Secrets and Lies!

Though at the end, you'll have more questions than answers.

Still, it is a fun ride!

It's like Lost... in space... with guns... and aliens... and space marines...
Okay it isn't like Lost at all.

Definitely going to have to read it now. Lol. Is it a novel solely on the Alpha Legion?

Luckily, I had this page open at the time of reading this thread...

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Alpharius

Lets all face it the Alpha Legion has some of the most confusing lore in the entire 40k universe.....

Asherian Command wrote:Lets all face it the Alpha Legion has some of the most confusing lore in the entire 40k universe.....

No kidding.

Made all the more interesting... and confusing after LEGION!

There is also a short that features them in "Victories of the space marines". It shows their planning and deceit pretty well.

Veldrain wrote:There is also a short that features them in "Victories of the space marines". It shows their planning and deceit pretty well.

Sadly, the story there fits better in the background from before LEGION.

It makes little sense since LEGION.

But then, so does THE HUNT FOR VOLDORIUS.

I swear, it is almost as if BL writers don't read other books set in the 40K galaxy - and I guess that's OK (not wishing to be unduly 'influenced'), but could they at least ready the plot synopsis?

Or maybe an editor could help them out?

Spartan 117 wrote:I've heard multiple times that the Alpha Legion had 2 primarchs. Anyone know the story behind it? And whats the deal with the Alpha Legion in the current 40k universe? I know they are traitors Im just wondering if there is any books about them or what not.

Apharius and Omegon are actually one person split in half by chaos, i.e. they started as a single baby in the tube but after chaos scattered them they were split. They someow share a soul.

As a legion they are very secretive, the Great Crusade only knew of one primarch, they made every marine identical, used psyker projections to appear normal in public, etc add to the fact that they were the last primarches to be found and you get very little known about them.

BluntmanDC wrote:

Spartan 117 wrote:I've heard multiple times that the Alpha Legion had 2 primarchs. Anyone know the story behind it? And whats the deal with the Alpha Legion in the current 40k universe? I know they are traitors Im just wondering if there is any books about them or what not.

Apharius and Omegon are actually one person split in half by chaos, i.e. they started as a single baby in the tube but after chaos scattered them they were split. They someow share a soul.

Okee, source? It's the first time I've heard of this.

iproxtaco wrote:

BluntmanDC wrote:

Spartan 117 wrote:I've heard multiple times that the Alpha Legion had 2 primarchs. Anyone know the story behind it? And whats the deal with the Alpha Legion in the current 40k universe? I know they are traitors Im just wondering if there is any books about them or what not.

Apharius and Omegon are actually one person split in half by chaos, i.e. they started as a single baby in the tube but after chaos scattered them they were split. They someow share a soul.

Okee, source? It's the first time I've heard of this.

Index Astartes described them as "one soul in two bodies".

Why would the Emperor have two embryos in one unit (the twin would have devoloped at the very earliest stage)?

And the Chaos part is pure conjecture? I see.

BluntmanDC wrote:

iproxtaco wrote:

BluntmanDC wrote:

Spartan 117 wrote:I've heard multiple times that the Alpha Legion had 2 primarchs. Anyone know the story behind it? And whats the deal with the Alpha Legion in the current 40k universe? I know they are traitors Im just wondering if there is any books about them or what not.

Apharius and Omegon are actually one person split in half by chaos, i.e. they started as a single baby in the tube but after chaos scattered them they were split. They someow share a soul.

Okee, source? It's the first time I've heard of this.

Index Astartes described them as "one soul in two bodies".

Why would the Emperor have two embryos in one unit (the twin would have devoloped at the very earliest stage)?

One soul in two bodies could simply mean shared mind/purpose, I don't see that as evidence of "one person split in half by Chaos", but what you said being a lot of speculation IMHO.

I read up another sight that although the alpha legion is renegade chaos they feel like they are trying to save humanity in the long run. I didnt really understand but it really complicates my view of the Alpha Legion

It's kind of a rumour type of thing...
No one is really sure of their motivations since they don't really worship chaos all that much.

Yeah, as Purplefood said, we don't know pretty much anything solid about the Alpha Legions motivations; they may infact worship Chaos, they may be supporting the Imperium in some convoluted manner, they may be following some other mysterious group (beginning with a C maybe? ), they may just be killing for killing's sake, they may have another secret agenda or more likely they may be heading all over the galaxy collecting ingredients for some delicious cake... We don't know and that's what makes them awesome.

Bluntman's assumption isn't unlikely, I think. It is unlikely the Emperor would have put two embryos in one tube. Ergo, it's likely that they split after being taken. And we do know that Chaos was responsible for taking the Primarchs. So, it is likely that the split was caused by Chaos, whether intentionally or not. It is also likely that Chaos was responsible for many of the deformations and mutations that we see among the Primarchs, either as a deliberate action of the Ruinous Powers or as a side effect of their trans-galactic teleportation of the still-developing fetuses.

Just my opinion.

Just Dave wrote:Yeah, as Purplefood said, we don't know pretty much anything solid about the Alpha Legions motivations; they may infact worship Chaos, they may be supporting the Imperium in some convoluted manner, they may be following some other mysterious group (beginning with a C maybe? ), they may just be killing for killing's sake, they may have another secret agenda or more likely they may be heading all over the galaxy collecting ingredients for some delicious cake... We don't know and that's what makes them awesome.

Aww... That's it !
I could not agree more. No need to rack our brains too much on the Alpha Legion, it will always be very subjective.

If you take the lore of Legion as gospel, it tells you why the Alpha Legion turns traitor towards the end, and it fits in very well with their battlecry in their Index Astartes entry IMHO.

I don't want to post it here because of Spoilers.

Spareknikov wrote:If you take the lore of Legion as gospel, it tells you why the Alpha Legion turns traitor towards the end, and it fits in very well with their battlecry in their Index Astartes entry IMHO.

I don't want to post it here because of Spoilers.

Ah its okay
there is such a thing called
a spoiler alert... and read at your own risk!

Obviously, Horus failed. The current motivations of the Alpha Legion, their numbers, their structure, their resources, even whether their Primarch(s) are still alive or not is completely unknown. Did they stay true to their motivations during the Heresy? Have they fallen to Chaos? Are they still loyal? No one knows but them, and even then it may be different between warbands and cells. They well still be working together or otherwise.

DeadlySquirrel wrote:According to the Smurfs Robute killed Alpharius after the HH, but it is possibly... nay probable this was but a deception by the alpha legion.

Except according to the Ultramarines he did NOT. Alpharius is more than likely just fine and dandy.

Omegus wrote:

DeadlySquirrel wrote:According to the Smurfs Robute killed Alpharius after the HH, but it is possibly... nay probable this was but a deception by the alpha legion.

Except according to the Ultramarines he did NOT. Alpharius is more than likely just fine and dandy.

I bet the Alpha Legion were the Ultramarines that claimed Guiliman had killed Alpharius...

Novels are not canon, they are novels. Unless it is a resource/sourcebook directly related to the hobby, i.e contains either rules text or pictures of models etc, it is not canon merely a work inspired by the warhammer 40,000 wargame.

In your opinion they aren't canon. I think they are, although several works have been pretty much discounted by the community as a whole, you know which ones.
If we were to ignore all novels we'd have one hell of a lot less to work with. Anyhoo, my A Thousand Sons copy has a picture of a model behind the back cover, A-grade canon right there.

I think the official line is, they are canon but if they conflict with a codex or the rulebook then the codex/rulebook is right and not the novel.

I don't think that the Alpha Legion sided with Horus in order to destroy Chaos. I think that they deliberately orchestrated events so that the Heresy would go down the way it did. Neither Horus nor the Emperor survived the Heresy, and so neither of the Cabal's predictions could come true. Both predictions were hingent on one of the two leaders surviving. I think the Alpha Legion wanted to take the third option, and give humanity a chance to fight for their own destiny. The rest of the novel sets up the Alpha Legion as the 'red-headed stepchild' of the legions. They didn't feel like they had any definable purpose (which is why they fought in such an enigmatic fashion, trying to forge their own purpose) and the Cabal's prophecy finally gave them meaning.

That, of course, is just my take on it.

Jimsolo wrote:I don't think that the Alpha Legion sided with Horus in order to destroy Chaos. I think that they deliberately orchestrated events so that the Heresy would go down the way it did. Neither Horus nor the Emperor survived the Heresy, and so neither of the Cabal's predictions could come true. Both predictions were hingent on one of the two leaders surviving. I think the Alpha Legion wanted to take the third option, and give humanity a chance to fight for their own destiny. The rest of the novel sets up the Alpha Legion as the 'red-headed stepchild' of the legions. They didn't feel like they had any definable purpose (which is why they fought in such an enigmatic fashion, trying to forge their own purpose) and the Cabal's prophecy finally gave them meaning.

That, of course, is just my take on it.

Well then I really like your take on it. Thats truly enough to agree with after reading quite a bit of fluff anout the alpha legion online

Jimsolo wrote:I don't think that the Alpha Legion sided with Horus in order to destroy Chaos. I think that they deliberately orchestrated events so that the Heresy would go down the way it did. Neither Horus nor the Emperor survived the Heresy, and so neither of the Cabal's predictions could come true. Both predictions were hingent on one of the two leaders surviving. I think the Alpha Legion wanted to take the third option, and give humanity a chance to fight for their own destiny. The rest of the novel sets up the Alpha Legion as the 'red-headed stepchild' of the legions. They didn't feel like they had any definable purpose (which is why they fought in such an enigmatic fashion, trying to forge their own purpose) and the Cabal's prophecy finally gave them meaning.

That, of course, is just my take on it.

I can't find the "Like" button...

This theory is by far the most intriguing one I've come across, it's definitely plausible and fits with Alpharius Omegon.

Perkustin wrote:Novels are not canon, they are novels. Unless it is a resource/sourcebook directly related to the hobby, i.e contains either rules text or pictures of models etc, it is not canon merely a work inspired by the warhammer 40,000 wargame.

and we all know how well GW sticks to its guns...

Let me tell you a story about the Squats...

Spareknikov wrote:If you take the lore of Legion as gospel, it tells you why the Alpha Legion turns traitor towards the end, and it fits in very well with their battlecry in their Index Astartes entry IMHO.

I don't want to post it here because of Spoilers.

True, but IIRC it also doesn't say if they actually follow what the Cabal say...

Jimsolo wrote:I don't think that the Alpha Legion sided with Horus in order to destroy Chaos. I think that they deliberately orchestrated events so that the Heresy would go down the way it did. Neither Horus nor the Emperor survived the Heresy, and so neither of the Cabal's predictions could come true. Both predictions were hingent on one of the two leaders surviving. I think the Alpha Legion wanted to take the third option, and give humanity a chance to fight for their own destiny. The rest of the novel sets up the Alpha Legion as the 'red-headed stepchild' of the legions. They didn't feel like they had any definable purpose (which is why they fought in such an enigmatic fashion, trying to forge their own purpose) and the Cabal's prophecy finally gave them meaning.

That, of course, is just my take on it.

Actually, their prediction was that if the Horus Heresy failed, the Imperium would be condemned to several tens of thousands of years of slow stagnation and inevitable decay until Chaos finally claimed the whole universe. Which is exactly what is happening.

I just looked at it again. And neither of the two prophecies came true. The Emperor didn't die at Terra, (although he came close) and Horus didn't survive. Ergo, there is a slim margin for success for the human race.

If I'm wrong, it meanst that the Alpha Legion threw in with Horus in order to cause Horus to win the Heresy and destroy Chaos. But once Horus lost, that whole plan went out the window, so why are they still fighting the Imperium? It don't think it makes sense.

Honestly though, I think that there is multiple interpretations of what happened there. The whole point of that book was that the Alpha Legion is supposed to be the most mysterious of the Legions. Abnett did a phenomenal job writing it, and I think he carried off the whole 'air of mystery' thing very well. So well, that their motive is very unclear, meaning that there are many ways to view it.

I like my way of looking at it, since it makes the Alpha Legion one of two Chaos groups who actually make any kind of sense. Other opinions, of course, are still valid.

What's the other group, may I ask?

The Alpha Legion are interesting because they're one of the few forces which we, the readers basically, know the same amount of info as the actual people in the story. With many other forces, we know several little bits that the characters don't, like The Lion in the rock. No one, or possibly only the Emperor know he's in the rock.

iproxtaco wrote:What's the other group, may I ask?

The Alpha Legion are interesting because they're one of the few forces which we, the readers basically, know the same amount of info as the actual people in the story. With many other forces, we know several little bits that the characters don't, like The Lion in the rock. No one, or possibly only the Emperor know he's in the rock.

I also like the Night Lords. They seem like they have a plausible reason for rebelling against the Imperium, and I like that their fluff quite clearly establishes that they do not whole heartedly embrace Chaos. Unlike some other Legions I could name. And I take that back, by the way, I also like the Word Bearers a little.

But some, like the Black Legion and the Emperor's Children, just don't make any sense in the way they operate. Others, like the World Eaters, make perfect (story) sense in how they function, but not in how they are still around to function.

I dunno. Chaos, as a whole, just seems to me to be a poorly thought out concept, from a story point of view. A few authors (Abnett, Dembski-Bowden) have done a good job in trying to cut a swath through the silliness, but the vast majority of it is still a jungle of contradiction, story gaps and good old fashioned ludicrousness.

That is, of course, just my opinion. If you like Chaos, more power to you. I'm glad someone does.

Alpha Legion has a secret base in the Terran System, (from the Renagade Codex just fluff I read). Being Infitration Specialists I dont doubt they have adjents within the Imperium hence the files being changed. The story I heard was that Alpha Legion turned renagade after the HH, as Russ acused them of turning to Chaos and they went into hiding, to attempt to regain there lost honor. As to what they are doing today is a mystery, they fight for the Imperum at times and fight for Choas at others. My bet is they mercenaries awaiting to redeem themselfs.

Jimsolo wrote:I also like the Night Lords. They seem like they have a plausible reason for rebelling against the Imperium

If by "plausible reason" you meant "a collection of psychopaths, murderers and rapists finally having an excuse to cut loose with no recriminations or consequences", then yes, I agree.

Jimsolo wrote:I don't think that the Alpha Legion sided with Horus in order to destroy Chaos. I think that they deliberately orchestrated events so that the Heresy would go down the way it did. Neither Horus nor the Emperor survived the Heresy, and so neither of the Cabal's predictions could come true. Both predictions were hingent on one of the two leaders surviving. I think the Alpha Legion wanted to take the third option, and give humanity a chance to fight for their own destiny. The rest of the novel sets up the Alpha Legion as the 'red-headed stepchild' of the legions. They didn't feel like they had any definable purpose (which is why they fought in such an enigmatic fashion, trying to forge their own purpose) and the Cabal's prophecy finally gave them meaning.

That, of course, is just my take on it.

I REALLY like this theory - a lot!

It works well with my 'too clever by half' explanation as well!

Just Dave wrote:
True, but IIRC it also doesn't say if they actually follow what the Cabal say...

Yup, that's the biggie - we don't know why they are doing what they are doing, or what they ultimately intended on doing.

I'm guessing it is more along the lines of "We can do this our way and save the Emperor and Humanity. And kill a bunch of meddling Xenos." vs. "Yes, oh wise Xenos leaders, we will help you wipe out all oh Humanity so that you can have free reign over the galaxy once again."

Omegus wrote:

Jimsolo wrote:I also like the Night Lords. They seem like they have a plausible reason for rebelling against the Imperium

If by "plausible reason" you meant "a collection of psychopaths, murderers and rapists finally having an excuse to cut loose with no recriminations or consequences", then yes, I agree.

Actually, I meant in the "we did a very specific job for our bosses and were then censured for the very job we were doing, which was to eliminate the kind of people attracted to this sort of job, which ironically validates the need to have someone doing this job in the first place, so we're not going to take it anymore" kind of way.

Dembski-Bowden writes the villainous novel well. He understands that you have to largely remove all heroes from the novel, in order to allow the audience the moral free reign to root for the bad guy. He also seems to understand that in the best villainous stories, the villain will reinforce (at the end) their villainous nature, making the audience feel guilty for supportin them the entire time.

As a side note Omegus, do you like anything?

Do you ever have anything positive to say?

At all?

That's a very specific kind of way Jimsolo...

LordWynne wrote:Alpha Legion has a secret base in the Terran System, (from the Renagade Codex just fluff I read). Being Infitration Specialists I dont doubt they have adjents within the Imperium hence the files being changed. The story I heard was that Alpha Legion turned renagade after the HH, as Russ acused them of turning to Chaos and they went into hiding, to attempt to regain there lost honor. As to what they are doing today is a mystery, they fight for the Imperum at times and fight for Choas at others. My bet is they mercenaries awaiting to redeem themselfs.

None of that is accurate.

DarknessEternal wrote:

LordWynne wrote:Alpha Legion has a secret base in the Terran System, (from the Renagade Codex just fluff I read). Being Infitration Specialists I dont doubt they have adjents within the Imperium hence the files being changed. The story I heard was that Alpha Legion turned renagade after the HH, as Russ acused them of turning to Chaos and they went into hiding, to attempt to regain there lost honor. As to what they are doing today is a mystery, they fight for the Imperum at times and fight for Choas at others. My bet is they mercenaries awaiting to redeem themselfs.

None of that is accurate.

Yeah, Choas totally isn't a thing...

What everyone said.

Love the playing both sides, 3rd Option theory!

So does that mean the money goes on the Alpha Legion being behind the shields being lowered on Horus's Flagship during the battle of Terra, setting up the 'final' confrontation?

As if Horus picked that fight on his terms as per the canon, then why didnt he win? Why didnt he stack the odds further in his favour.

I've seen that particular theory a few times on the net...

Personally, I hope it is true!

Me too. Plus, your approval has to be worth bonus points.

You'd think so, but the Legion is just so damn independent these days!

BluntmanDC wrote:
Index Astartes described them as "one soul in two bodies".

For what it's worth 'one soul in two bodies' is famously the answer Aristotle gave to the question 'what is a true friend?'

The intention might just have been to establish Alpharius and Omegon as being best-friends-forever.

ANd not to nitpick, but that info was in LEGION, and not in the Index Astartes article which came out long before LEGION and much of which is now cast into doubt...

What irritates me is that the WHOLE of the index astartes article is NOT Alpha legion fabrication, two parts of it were: the origin of Alpharius (for whatever reason) and the Death of Alpharius (Just in case). The rest was written by the same omniscient narrator who writes the rest of the CANON fluff for all armies.

So i've read Legion and thought the Alpha Legion was a really cool chapter, but sortve forgot about them as i got more into the series and now after reading all this ive remebered how awesome they are. Space wolve's may be my favorite space marines/ anything in W40K, but the Alpha Legion is definitly a close second.

So after all this my my main question would be has the Alpha Legion succumbed to chaos or not then? They seem to be considered a traitor legion by all the loyal legions, however they still seem to be fighting for humanity in a sense, so are they considered "chaos" in the meaning of demon worshipping and mutations to their gene seed (I really hate all the horns and odd growths on chaos space marine miniatures lol) or not? If i was to start a alpha legion army could it be without all the wings and horns and wierd things seeping out of open cuts?

We don't know.

Probably not, but being the Alpha Legion, we don't know what their motivations are or whether they do worship Chaos. You could start an army without the Chaos Mutations/Cosmetics however...

So since we dont know really if they are chaos worshippers or not do we know anything about their wearabouts when the traitor legions attacked the imperial palace?

TheTaurans wrote:So since we dont know really if they are chaos worshippers or not

We do know that many of them definitely are. We have 3 decades of background material describing their daemonic pacts, worship, and rituals.

You can't fake summoning daemons.

So then there are atleast some then that do the whole chaos shindig then.
Hmmm.
Could possibly the alpha legion potentionally split in two at some point down along the line then? All of those that want to save humanity follow one of the primarchs (Say Alpharius) and the chaos worshipping ones follow omegon and then they clash in a split legion war, sort of like the Dark Angels and The Fallen?

[quote=Jimsolo If I'm wrong, it meanst that the Alpha Legion threw in with Horus in order to cause Horus to win the Heresy and destroy Chaos. But once Horus lost, that whole plan went out the window, so why are they still fighting the Imperium?

DarknessEternal wrote:

TheTaurans wrote:So since we dont know really if they are chaos worshippers or not

We do know that many of them definitely are. We have 3 decades of background material describing their daemonic pacts, worship, and rituals.

You can't fake summoning daemons.

Also in the Choas Space Marine Codex the pictures of the Alpha Legion Marines do have horns and what not.


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But I sure love their fluff though> If I had the money and I wasnt a poor college student............ I'd easily start an Alpha Legion army. The conversion oppurtunties are out the door.

Their fluff is so complicated that i can be taken in so many ways. Thats why the Alpha Legion is my favorite Chaos legion.

Perkustin wrote:Novels are not canon, they are novels. Unless it is a resource/sourcebook directly related to the hobby, i.e contains either rules text or pictures of models etc, it is not canon merely a work inspired by the warhammer 40,000 wargame.

On the old BL forums they said multiple times even with GW workers that patrolled the forum anything written by BL or GW is in fact cannon or fluff. You just take everything with a grain of salt because it is all written from one faction's view point. So humanity will look epic and destroy everyone in their path, while chaos will see the galaxy burn ect.

The point of Legion is very much the line 'For the Emperor'. That's why they did what they did, not for humanity or anything else.

Whether they still are trying to accomplish that goal after 10,000 years is pretty unlikely.

-Loki- wrote:The point of Legion is very much the line 'For the Emperor'. That's why they did what they did, not for humanity or anything else.

Whether they still are trying to accomplish that goal after 10,000 years is pretty unlikely.

Great statement! This is exactly how I see the Alpha Legion.

Spartan 117 wrote:

-Loki- wrote:The point of Legion is very much the line 'For the Emperor'. That's why they did what they did, not for humanity or anything else.

Whether they still are trying to accomplish that goal after 10,000 years is pretty unlikely.

Great statement! This is exactly how I see the Alpha Legion.

Ah, yes and no - I think that "For the Emperor!" does NOT exclude Humanity, though at this point in time it might exclude the Imperium.

Alpharius wrote:

Spartan 117 wrote:

-Loki- wrote:The point of Legion is very much the line 'For the Emperor'. That's why they did what they did, not for humanity or anything else.

Whether they still are trying to accomplish that goal after 10,000 years is pretty unlikely.

Great statement! This is exactly how I see the Alpha Legion.

Ah, yes and no - I think that "For the Emperor!" does NOT exclude Humanity, though at this point in time it might exclude the Imperium.

If it excludes the Imperium then who do you think it is? Also Alpharius do you play Alpha Legion? Just wondering.

What I mean by that is that "For the Emperor!" means just that, support for the Emperor and whatever it is the Legion thinks he would want for Humanity - which I believe is something quite different than what the Imperium is doing currently, both in regards to the overall plan for Humanity, and how it has set the Emperor up as a God.

And yes, I do play Alpha Legion - it would be more than a little funny if I didn't, I think!

Yeah, that whole Voldorius thing was clearly about how Alpha Legion is celebrating humanity...

-Loki- wrote:The point of Legion is very much the line 'For the Emperor'. That's why they did what they did, not for humanity or anything else.

Whether they still are trying to accomplish that goal after 10,000 years is pretty unlikely.

Given the choices the Cabal described, it's pretty clear that while the Alpha Legion might be fighting for what they consider to be the Emperor's goals, but they are definitely not fighting for the betterment of humanity. That's assuming that they're still sticking with the original plan.

DarknessEternal wrote:Yeah, that whole Voldorius thing was clearly about how Alpha Legion is celebrating humanity...

If you've paid attention to any of the many posts I've made on this subject, this is indeed a sore spot with me in that many of the BL writers apparently haven't gotten the memo about the Legion after LEGION.

Or, we're going to get a "Night Lords" explanation of "Some are still doing the original plan and some are Baby to Forehead Stapling Stereotypical Mustache Twirling Black Hat Wearing Villains".

daveNYC wrote:

-Loki- wrote:The point of Legion is very much the line 'For the Emperor'. That's why they did what they did, not for humanity or anything else.

Whether they still are trying to accomplish that goal after 10,000 years is pretty unlikely.

Given the choices the Cabal described, it's pretty clear that while the Alpha Legion might be fighting for what they consider to be the Emperor's goals, but they are definitely not fighting for the betterment of humanity. That's assuming that they're still sticking with the original plan.

Without a proper sequel to LEGION, were not left with a lot to work with in terms of figuring any of this out.

Sorry for not remembering the source where i read this, but, i clearly remember a line saying how even though the Alpha Legion would attack Imperial positions that the area would soon become much stronger because of it.

To me that says that they find weak areas of humanity, point out that weakness, then let humanity change for the better.

DarknessEternal wrote:Yeah, that whole Voldorius thing was clearly about how Alpha Legion is celebrating humanity...

For all we know Voldorius could of gone insane and lost sight of the mission or he was a newer recruit that hadn't gone through the training because clearly he didn't care about his soldiers. Which Alpha Legionaries care for eachother in that if their brother dies that just means they get a promotion!

Alpharius wrote:
Or, we're going to get a "Night Lords" explanation of "Some are still doing the original plan and some are Baby to Forehead Stapling Stereotypical Mustache Twirling Black Hat Wearing Villains".

Night Lords divisions was already resolved in the Soul Hunter series.

There is yet to be modern setting work that depicts Alpha Legion as anything but baby-raping monsters.

Yeah, that's exactly my point.

So, you don't see the disconnect?

Even though we have further evidence post-LEGION (maybe) of the Legion acting in ways that would be more beneficial to the Emperor than to Horus?

Alpharius wrote:Yeah, that's exactly my point.

So, you don't see the disconnect?

Even though we have further evidence post-LEGION (maybe) of the Legion acting in ways that would be more beneficial to the Emperor than to Horus?

Thats whats so awesome about the Alpha Legions fluff though is that it can be taken in many different ways.

You know what, you're right - good point!

(Though I still hope for a sequel to LEGION, an explanation about why things are as they are 'now', and some internal consistency from BL concerning them too...!)

What Night Lords plan are you guys referring to? From the HH audiobooks, Curze is painted as a violent psychopath that gets off on freaking people out and decided that the Imperium's views do not mesh with his own long before Horus went traitor.

That many Night Lords, including the Night Haunter, oppose Chaos. They're still evil, dickbags, but they don't think you should be friends with daemons.

Another faction thinks daemons are peachy.

Are their any other Chaos factions that think Daemons are peachy besides the Night Lords and Alpha Legion? I thought the Iron Warriors maybe? But I'm really unsure about that.

Spartan 117 wrote:Are their any other Chaos factions that think Daemons are peachy besides the Night Lords and Alpha Legion? I thought the Iron Warriors maybe? But I'm really unsure about that.

I'm not sure what you mean here...

Some faction of the Night Lords are not big fans of Daemons, but I think all will use them to further their own aims.

Same for Alpha Legion, maybe?

Iron Warriors don't have problems with daemons at all...

I was wondering what Chaos factions dont really use daemons all too much

Spartan 117 wrote:I was wondering what Chaos factions dont really use daemons all too much

Alpha Legion, Night Lords, Iron Warriors.

Iron Warriors use zero daemons ever. They use daemon engines however.
Alpha Legion sometimes summon daemons through cultists.
Night Lords sometimes employ furies.

.

ChaosLordSam wrote:They are twins. Alpharius got killed.

If by Alpharius you mean Alpha Legion Grunt number 483, then yes. You are correct.

coolyo294 wrote:

ChaosLordSam wrote:They are twins. Alpharius got killed.

If by Alpharius you mean Alpha Legion Grunt number 483, then yes. You are correct.

Close - it was #437!

Perkustin wrote:What irritates me is that the WHOLE of the index astartes article is NOT Alpha legion fabrication, two parts of it were: the origin of Alpharius (for whatever reason) and the Death of Alpharius (Just in case). The rest was written by the same omniscient narrator who writes the rest of the CANON fluff for all armies.

What omniscient narrator?
The rulebooks are all written as if you were reading files from an Imperial computer, as far as the information and point of view they provide.
Have you never noticed how each army book presents that race as the greatest heroes of, or threat to the Imperium?
They are all Imperium-centric.

With that POV, there is plenty of room for inconsistency and contradiction between just the rulebooks, as well as with the novels.
This applies to the entire 40k universe, and doubly to the Alpha legion.

Any info we have is equally likely to be canon or apocryphal.

Alpharius wrote:

coolyo294 wrote:

ChaosLordSam wrote:They are twins. Alpharius got killed.

If by Alpharius you mean Alpha Legion Grunt number 483, then yes. You are correct.

Close - it was #437!

I am #437.

skrulnik wrote:
The rulebooks are all written as if you were reading files from an Imperial computer, as far as the information and point of view they provide.

Uh no, when they are presented as files from an Imperial computer, they make it very clear with a distinct background and borders and various designations and prompts before the actual text. When you're just reading pure background text on the setting, you are being given factual information as an omniscient observer.

Omegus wrote:

Alpharius wrote:

coolyo294 wrote:

ChaosLordSam wrote:They are twins. Alpharius got killed.

If by Alpharius you mean Alpha Legion Grunt number 483, then yes. You are correct.

Close - it was #437!

I am #437.

skrulnik wrote:
The rulebooks are all written as if you were reading files from an Imperial computer, as far as the information and point of view they provide.

Uh no, when they are presented as files from an Imperial computer, they make it very clear with a distinct background and borders and various designations and prompts before the actual text. When you're just reading pure background text on the setting, you are being given factual information as an omniscient observer.

No, I am #437

Raulmichile wrote:

Omegus wrote:

Alpharius wrote:

coolyo294 wrote:

ChaosLordSam wrote:They are twins. Alpharius got killed.

If by Alpharius you mean Alpha Legion Grunt number 483, then yes. You are correct.

Close - it was #437!

I am #437.

skrulnik wrote:
The rulebooks are all written as if you were reading files from an Imperial computer, as far as the information and point of view they provide.

Uh no, when they are presented as files from an Imperial computer, they make it very clear with a distinct background and borders and various designations and prompts before the actual text. When you're just reading pure background text on the setting, you are being given factual information as an omniscient observer.

No, I am #437

Dammit, if you two are bickering about being #437, then why is #437 tattooed on the back of my neck along with bar codes?

King Pariah wrote:

Raulmichile wrote:

Omegus wrote:

Alpharius wrote:

coolyo294 wrote:

ChaosLordSam wrote:They are twins. Alpharius got killed.

If by Alpharius you mean Alpha Legion Grunt number 483, then yes. You are correct.

Close - it was #437!

I am #437.

skrulnik wrote:
The rulebooks are all written as if you were reading files from an Imperial computer, as far as the information and point of view they provide.

Uh no, when they are presented as files from an Imperial computer, they make it very clear with a distinct background and borders and various designations and prompts before the actual text. When you're just reading pure background text on the setting, you are being given factual information as an omniscient observer.

No, I am #437

Dammit, if you two are bickering about being #437, then why is #437 tattooed on the back of my neck along with bar codes?

uh oh, here we go again. Look, I can only scan ONE #437 through, so whos going to be it, and who is going to take one for the team and become #438 and #439? My shift ends in 15 mins, so hurry up!

They were brothers, Alpharius, and Omegus.

And both were #437 also

Jimsolo wrote:I don't think that the Alpha Legion sided with Horus in order to destroy Chaos. I think that they deliberately orchestrated events so that the Heresy would go down the way it did. Neither Horus nor the Emperor survived the Heresy, and so neither of the Cabal's predictions could come true. Both predictions were hingent on one of the two leaders surviving. I think the Alpha Legion wanted to take the third option, and give humanity a chance to fight for their own destiny. The rest of the novel sets up the Alpha Legion as the 'red-headed stepchild' of the legions. They didn't feel like they had any definable purpose (which is why they fought in such an enigmatic fashion, trying to forge their own purpose) and the Cabal's prophecy finally gave them meaning.

That, of course, is just my take on it.

Except the Cabal specifically said if the Emperor won, he would die causing the stagnation of the Imperium. So either the Alpha Legion caused a legion that should have turned to Chaos to remain in the Imperium, or the Cabal were in fact evil, and pulled the same trick on Alpharius that the gods did on Horus. They showed him one future. Who knows, maybe if the Alpha Legion hadn't listened to them, everything would have been fine and dandy.

Also, the Alpha Legion don't fake summoning daemons because they don't summon daemons at all. Until the newest codex came out, it wasn't even an option for them. They use cultists to do it for them, so technically, they are as untouched by Chaos as someone living in the Warp can be. Except that GK... but that's a bit overdone.

Durza wrote:Also, the Alpha Legion don't fake summoning daemons because they don't summon daemons at all. Until the newest codex came out, it wasn't even an option for them. They use cultists to do it for them, so technically, they are as untouched by Chaos as someone living in the Warp can be. Except that GK... but that's a bit overdone.

Alpha Legion don't live in the Warp, they operate deeper in Imperial space than any other Legion.

So it's necessary for them to travel through the Warp a lot to avoid detection. 'In regular contact with the Warp' would have been more accurate.

Durza wrote:

Jimsolo wrote:I don't think that the Alpha Legion sided with Horus in order to destroy Chaos. I think that they deliberately orchestrated events so that the Heresy would go down the way it did. Neither Horus nor the Emperor survived the Heresy, and so neither of the Cabal's predictions could come true. Both predictions were hingent on one of the two leaders surviving. I think the Alpha Legion wanted to take the third option, and give humanity a chance to fight for their own destiny. The rest of the novel sets up the Alpha Legion as the 'red-headed stepchild' of the legions. They didn't feel like they had any definable purpose (which is why they fought in such an enigmatic fashion, trying to forge their own purpose) and the Cabal's prophecy finally gave them meaning.

That, of course, is just my take on it.

Except the Cabal specifically said if the Emperor won, he would die causing the stagnation of the Imperium. So either the Alpha Legion caused a legion that should have turned to Chaos to remain in the Imperium, or the Cabal were in fact evil, and pulled the same trick on Alpharius that the gods did on Horus. They showed him one future. Who knows, maybe if the Alpha Legion hadn't listened to them, everything would have been fine and dandy.

Also, the Alpha Legion don't fake summoning daemons because they don't summon daemons at all. Until the newest codex came out, it wasn't even an option for them. They use cultists to do it for them, so technically, they are as untouched by Chaos as someone living in the Warp can be. Except that GK... but that's a bit overdone.

You have to remember, we have no idea what the Legion's motivations are, whether they really believe the Cabal or not and what exactly they are up to, how they hope to accomplish it, and how they react when... things turn out like they did.

Durza wrote:So it's necessary for them to travel through the Warp a lot to avoid detection. 'In regular contact with the Warp' would have been more accurate.

Not much more so than any other chapter though. Warp travel is how anyone in the Imperium gets anywhere.

There are two facts I know for certan about the Alpha Legion:

If it looks like a Duck, Quacks like a Duck, Smells like a Duck; It is an Alpha Legionary.

And

Chances are, the only person in the room that says they are not Alpharius is indeed, Alpharius.

tarvos wrote:There are two facts I know for certan about the Alpha Legion:

If it looks like a Duck, Quacks like a Duck, Smells like a Duck; It is an Alpha Legionary.

You should probably credit the original person that said this, whom IIRC was Brother Heinrick.

Alpharius wrote:You have to remember, we have no idea what the Legion's motivations are, whether they really believe the Cabal or not and what exactly they are up to, how they hope to accomplish it, and how they react when... things turn out like they did.

It's also foolish to assume the same goal for a Legion that emphasizes dissemination of command and independent splinter groups of operatives. Their motivations are probably all of the above, depending on which Legionnaire you ask.

In Legion, it did seem like the entire Alpha Legion knew what Alpharius' plans were, but they wouldn't tell them to outsiders any time soon.

Durza wrote:In Legion, it did seem like the entire Alpha Legion knew what Alpharius' plans were, but they wouldn't tell them to outsiders any time soon.

Exactly. This is pivital in understanding the Alpha Legion I think. I honestly believe that this is almost a sign that Alpharius is quite still alive and giving orders as to tell his Marines not to say anything of plans to outsiders. But man I love the fluff of the Alpha Legion!

Even if Alpharius did die, they've still got a primarch, which makes them one of the few to still have an active one.

In the First Heretic it hints that Alpharius & Omegon dont have a home world as they came to rest on a spaceship. Who's?

On a second interesting note, the cabal contained an Eldar, which they both met and yet said nothing. Other legions had met and fought Eldar so they must have been aware of what the Eldar were and yet nothing was said.

There is a bucket load of their past yet to be revealed which would certainly shed light on their likely motivations.

Alpha and Omega are the first and last letters of the Greek Alphabet, so Alpharius and Omegon is the 'the First and the Last' very poetic!

Does this hold more meaning? Are they the beginning and the End of something or the beginning and end of a circle of fate/time perhaps?

On a final note, if they share one soul, one could die yet the 'whole' would still exist. So could Omegon have been designed be a host for someone, a spare body if you will or a backup plan. Now who in the 40k universe could possibly need a new primarch sized body.......

Alpharius wrote:

Veldrain wrote:There is also a short that features them in "Victories of the space marines". It shows their planning and deceit pretty well.

Sadly, the story there fits better in the background from before LEGION.

It makes little sense since LEGION.

But then, so does THE HUNT FOR VOLDORIUS.

I swear, it is almost as if BL writers don't read other books set in the 40K galaxy - and I guess that's OK (not wishing to be unduly 'influenced'), but could they at least ready the plot synopsis?

Or maybe an editor could help them out?

Glad im not the only one to notice how legion conflicts with the other books.

I've been meaning to re read it, but iirc doesn't alpha legion get told if they join horus then he will win? What happened there?

The hope was Horus wouldn't die, would feel guilty, and declare war on the other Chaos legions after the Imperium was destroyed, killing the Chaos gods in the process.