It took me a few seconds to see the design. But that might be because I scrolled down to read the bottom of the poster before looking at the image with part of the top missing
SilverMK2 wrote:It took me a few seconds to see the design. But that might be because I scrolled down to read the bottom of the poster before looking at the image with part of the top missing
I didn't see it until I saw the bottom, either. It might be more noticeable if it was the comic style bat symbol. Nolan's design is so streamlined and utilitarian, it just became a strip of sky at first glance.
I'm wondering if this is going to be a No Man's Land type situation where Gotham is rocked by a massive earthquake and the criminal elements us it as an opportunity to seize control. Batman, running from the law since the end of two, will have to step up and fight back to save the people and the city, ect ect.
Funnily enough i would call that a complete FAIL of a movie poster. This little dakka experiment has proved it, ten out of 20 posters (me being one) didnt get it without looking at the URL at the bottom or reading the posts.
I remember reading a comic based on a Gotham where the rest of the country had sealed off the place and left it to rot and fall into anarchy (with the Police Force reduced to simply being another 'Gang' in the war). I liked it, probably becuase it was a lot grittier than any other batman comic I'd picked up.
Emperors Faithful wrote:I remember reading a comic based on a Gotham where the rest of the country had sealed off the place and left it to rot and fall into anarchy (with the Police Force reduced to simply being another 'Gang' in the war). I liked it, probably becuase it was a lot grittier than any other batman comic I'd picked up.
Emperors Faithful wrote:I remember reading a comic based on a Gotham where the rest of the country had sealed off the place and left it to rot and fall into anarchy (with the Police Force reduced to simply being another 'Gang' in the war). I liked it, probably becuase it was a lot grittier than any other batman comic I'd picked up.
No Man's Land, which I swear was recently mentioned.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Perkustin wrote:Funnily enough i would call that a complete FAIL of a movie poster. This little dakka experiment has proved it, ten out of 20 posters (me being one) didnt get it without looking at the URL at the bottom or reading the posts.
The graphic designer needs to be punished lol...
Because some people are not paying attention doesn't mean the graphic designer failed. Outside of the internet I have yet to talk to anyone that didn't immediately see it.
Perkustin wrote:Funnily enough i would call that a complete FAIL of a movie poster. This little dakka experiment has proved it, ten out of 20 posters (me being one) didnt get it without looking at the URL at the bottom or reading the posts.
The graphic designer needs to be punished lol...
Just called the Missus and my Kids in ( one at a time) to look at the add...
Son saw it immediately , Missus saw it after about 10 seconds, Daughter didn't see it at all and asked if she could go watch some mermaid movie..oh well, 2 out of 3 ain't bad.
Perkustin wrote:Funnily enough i would call that a complete FAIL of a movie poster. This little dakka experiment has proved it, ten out of 20 posters (me being one) didnt get it without looking at the URL at the bottom or reading the posts.
The graphic designer needs to be punished lol...
Just called the Missus and my Kids in ( one at a time) to look at the add...
Son saw it immediately , Missus saw it after about 10 seconds, Daughter didn't see it at all and asked if she could go watch some mermaid movie..oh well, 2 out of 3 ain't bad.
Perkustin wrote:Funnily enough i would call that a complete FAIL of a movie poster. This little dakka experiment has proved it, ten out of 20 posters (me being one) didnt get it without looking at the URL at the bottom or reading the posts.
The graphic designer needs to be punished lol...
Just called the Missus and my Kids in ( one at a time) to look at the add...
Son saw it immediately , Missus saw it after about 10 seconds, Daughter didn't see it at all and asked if she could go watch some mermaid movie..oh well, 2 out of 3 ain't bad.
You do this... often?
Hey, I helped create two of the three people in question and let them live in my house rent free...if I want to conduct experiments concerning the effectiveness of an add campain I by god will...
Perkustin wrote:Funnily enough i would call that a complete FAIL of a movie poster. This little dakka experiment has proved it, ten out of 20 posters (me being one) didnt get it without looking at the URL at the bottom or reading the posts.
The graphic designer needs to be punished lol...
Just called the Missus and my Kids in ( one at a time) to look at the add...
Son saw it immediately , Missus saw it after about 10 seconds, Daughter didn't see it at all and asked if she could go watch some mermaid movie..oh well, 2 out of 3 ain't bad.
You do this... often?
Hey, I helped create two of the three people in question and let them live in my house rent free...if I want to conduct experiments concerning the effectiveness of an add campain I by god will...
Perkustin wrote:Funnily enough i would call that a complete FAIL of a movie poster. This little dakka experiment has proved it, ten out of 20 posters (me being one) didnt get it without looking at the URL at the bottom or reading the posts.
The graphic designer needs to be punished lol...
Just called the Missus and my Kids in ( one at a time) to look at the add...
Son saw it immediately , Missus saw it after about 10 seconds, Daughter didn't see it at all and asked if she could go watch some mermaid movie..oh well, 2 out of 3 ain't bad.
You do this... often?
Hey, I helped create two of the three people in question and let them live in my house rent free...if I want to conduct experiments concerning the effectiveness of an add campain I by god will...
Perkustin wrote:Funnily enough i would call that a complete FAIL of a movie poster. This little dakka experiment has proved it, ten out of 20 posters (me being one) didnt get it without looking at the URL at the bottom or reading the posts.
The graphic designer needs to be punished lol...
Just called the Missus and my Kids in ( one at a time) to look at the add...
Son saw it immediately , Missus saw it after about 10 seconds, Daughter didn't see it at all and asked if she could go watch some mermaid movie..oh well, 2 out of 3 ain't bad.
You do this... often?
Hey, I helped create two of the three people in question and let them live in my house rent free...if I want to conduct experiments concerning the effectiveness of an add campain I by god will...
You sound eerily like my father...
O_o
Maybe he is?
Obi Frazz never told you what happened to your Father (HackGasp)..
EDIT:...I suppose a lot of us Fathers sound alike...
I didn't see it. I'd be surprised if many people in the total population did, given we're a bunch of geeks and should be better at this stuff.
That said, it's a great poster, and has worked really well precisely because a lot of people didn't see it at first, and that gets people talking. Would we have this thread if the poster was obvious?
Much easier to see when it's smaller (like you might see when walking up to the theater)...where it basically becomes a white symbol on a black background.
Ahtman wrote:I'm wondering if this is going to be a No Man's Land type situation where Gotham is rocked by a massive earthquake and the criminal elements us it as an opportunity to seize control. Batman, running from the law since the end of two, will have to step up and fight back to save the people and the city, ect ect.
That'll be what, the third or fourth time this decade that Gotham City has been redesigned? Actually... if this leads of a redesign of Gotham back to the Animated Series/Burton-esque Dark Deco look and away from the Chicago Skyscraper look I'm all for it!
purplefood wrote:
Emperors Faithful wrote:I remember reading a comic based on a Gotham where the rest of the country had sealed off the place and left it to rot and fall into anarchy (with the Police Force reduced to simply being another 'Gang' in the war). I liked it, probably becuase it was a lot grittier than any other batman comic I'd picked up.
Damn that sounds good.
That would be the previously mentioned No Man's Land story arc, which led to the redesign of Gotham City to better match the Nolan series of films.
Ahtman wrote:I'm wondering if this is going to be a No Man's Land type situation where Gotham is rocked by a massive earthquake and the criminal elements us it as an opportunity to seize control. Batman, running from the law since the end of two, will have to step up and fight back to save the people and the city, ect ect.
That'll be what, the third or fourth time this decade that Gotham City has been redesigned? Actually... if this leads of a redesign of Gotham back to the Animated Series/Burton-esque Dark Deco look and away from the Chicago Skyscraper look I'm all for it!
If the movie did have a bit from that, the earthquake, I doubt that we would see a design change outside of the city we have seen already but suffering from a natural disaster.
Ahtman wrote:I'm wondering if this is going to be a No Man's Land type situation where Gotham is rocked by a massive earthquake and the criminal elements us it as an opportunity to seize control. Batman, running from the law since the end of two, will have to step up and fight back to save the people and the city, ect ect.
That'll be what, the third or fourth time this decade that Gotham City has been redesigned? Actually... if this leads of a redesign of Gotham back to the Animated Series/Burton-esque Dark Deco look and away from the Chicago Skyscraper look I'm all for it!
If the movie did have a bit from that, the earthquake, I doubt that we would see a design change outside of the city we have seen already but suffering from a natural disaster.
Considering that Gotham has been redesigned several times already over the course of the continuity as the result of major events portrayed across different media, its not out of the question. Again, No Man's Land was written to allow for a redesign of Gotham to suit the Nolan interpretation of Gotham. Prior to that was the Destroyer arc that paved the way for the Burton Gotham
Indeed. Most striking. Being filmed in Nottingham of all places, go figure.
Trailer info..
Spoiler:
Gary Oldman voiceover, talking about how they needed him, then he had to disappear. Footage of Bruce Wayne walking up the mountain from Batman Begins, and surrounded by bats from Batman Begins. This is intercut with Gary Oldman looking like he is dying in a hospital bed, talking to what seems to be Bruce Wayne in the foreground. Footage of the batpod driving away from the camera from TDK. Then it goes black, and Tom Hardy as Bane in his mask appears for a moment, then disappears. Logo in a crumbling skyline, as in the poster, then the film name, then a shot of a worn out Batman about to fight Bane in the foreground.
Sasori wrote:I don't know how Catwoman and Bane are going to cause that much destruction, there better be someone else in the mix...
In the comics, Bane is the greatest opponent Batman ever faced. The Knightfall comics (available as a three part graphic novel series) is easily the best thing ever to come out of the Batman universe. Greater even than The Dark Knight.
I blame it on the pressure of the "instantly recognisable" but it took me about five minutes of staring and reading the first four posts to finally see it, never thought to read past coming in 2012.
I actually thought it was Independence Day 2 and thought there must be a space ship here I'm missing?
It took me a good five minutes, mostly because I was looking at the buildings, and not the Bat Symbol. My dad came over and looked at it, saw it instantly.
Indeed. Most striking. Being filmed in Nottingham of all places, go figure.
AND my old stomping grounds of Pittsburgh soon.
Regarding the poster (putting my advertising hat on), sometimes in advertising you want stuff that's instantly obvious and recognizable. Sometimes you want stuff that an audience has to decipher just a bit. This is an overly simplistic explanation of course, but IMO it's still a fairly accurate statement.
I think it's a great poster for what it's intended to do, which is *tease* about the next installment of a hugely successful franchise. Wait and see how the following and final movie posters will take a different approach, being more literal and selling the characters and stars involved.
I also think some might taking the crumbling buildings too literally. That looks to me to be a trope about a Gotham City on the edge of collapse. The more interesting point IMO is the bat symbol being a bright sky, which echoes the movie title and reinforces the notion of a more upbeat, hopeful ending to the series.
All I hope is that people would quit over using ideas and themes from this franchise. It's embarrassing how many people named themselves "something-something-Darkknight" or "something-something-Joker" on PSN after the last one. Be more original than that please.
Clever use of a simple symbol. Nice marketing strategy.
Stormrider wrote:All I hope is that people would quit over using ideas and themes from this franchise. It's embarrassing how many people named themselves "something-something-Darkknight" or "something-something-Joker" on PSN after the last one. Be more original than that please.
Clever use of a simple symbol. Nice marketing strategy.
What we need are more XxSephirothxX, 1xVegetax1, or Xlegolasx's. It isn't a phenomenon only for the Dark Knight and in fact I have seen far more anime/gaming names like that by a large margin. I know a Batmangr but he had that username back before Phantasy Star Online on the Dreamcast.
Stormrider wrote:All I hope is that people would quit over using ideas and themes from this franchise. It's embarrassing how many people named themselves "something-something-Darkknight" or "something-something-Joker" on PSN after the last one. Be more original than that please.
Clever use of a simple symbol. Nice marketing strategy.
What we need are more XxSephirothxX, 1xVegetax1, or Xlegolasx's. It isn't a phenomenon only for the Dark Knight and in fact I have seen far more anime/gaming names like that by a large margin. I know a Batmangr but he had that username back before Phantasy Star Online on the Dreamcast.
Maybe he was a bat manager or bat mangler by trade?
Have they announced which Villians are in this one yet?
Although I'll be waiting for the DVD release, after watching Dark Knight again a while back. I have come to the conclusion I don't like the real world feel he has gone for over his Batman films so far.
Morathi's Darkest Sin wrote:Looks pretty nice, saw it straight away.
Have they announced which Villians are in this one yet?
Although I'll be waiting for the DVD release, after watching Dark Knight again a while back. I have come to the conclusion I don't like the real world feel he has gone for over his Batman films so far.
Bane and Catwoman IIRC...( though I may be incorrect about "Catwoman"...might just be Selina Kyle)
I still find it odd that Nolan doesn't think that underworld kingpin and Gotham socialite Oswald Cobblepot/Penguin doesn't fit into his gritty world of Batman vs the Mob.
Bane, oh gawd, well hopefully they might make him intelligent this time. Damn I hated Batman and Robin more for that sin, than anything else. Even Clooney.
Catwoman, ah nice, hopefully we can see a return to a Michelle Pfeiffer style in Batman Returns and not the abomination stand alone film that shall not be named.
Platuan4th wrote:I still find it odd that Nolan doesn't think that underworld kingpin and Gotham socialite Oswald Cobblepot/Penguin doesn't fit into his gritty world of Batman vs the Mob.
Agreed, I had thought that a " Nolanized" Penguin would have been great...and I had also hoped for a " Zodiac Killer" styled Riddler....but..oh well
EDIT @ MDS...Supposedly Nolan's "Bane" will be nothing like the " Batman & Robin" Bane...which I guess would be a given.
It is rumored that they are essentially pulling a Ra's Al Ghul again in this one. In the original pre-release info Ken Watanabe was listed as Ra's Al Ghul and Liam Neason was listed as Henry Ducard. The wife from Inception is rumored to be actually be Talia Al Ghul. We will see. I'm going to try and avoid info as much as I can. Other than the trailer I will see tonight at the midnight Harry Potter.
I won't watch any Trailers for the Dark Knight Rises. I won't watch any Trailers for the Dark Knight Rises. I won't watch any Trailers for the Dark Knight Rises. I won't watch any Trailers for the Dark Knight Rises.
Saw the official version. I'm not really a big fan of the Bane character...too much Lucha Libre in the concept. But I trust that Nolan will have the right take on the character. Although the chanting/Bane combo for some reason makes me think of Stallone's 'Cobra,' which also featured a hulking bad guy as the leader of a criminal/cult thing. Maybe Batman will get to say "you're the disease, and I'm the cure."
Kinda funny how some people on the interwebz are complaining it doesn't show much. It's a teaser trailer...they almost never do. Besides, they're still filming...AFAIK, they haven't even started in Pittsburgh yet.
A couple of years ago I would have been excited but I kinda went off comic books. I watched an Alan Moore interview about how fascist Batman was, and how juvenile and simplistic superheroes in general were. It's the whole 'Oh no I've got powers should I save the world or turn bad, but lucky for me, Aunt May knows what to do kinda thing' that gets my goat.
Still, at least Batman inspired V and Watchmen, so it's not all bad I suppose.
Maybe I'm just getting old :(
Maybe Frazz is the most sensible one on this site, maybe he's onto something with his approach - The best way to cope with a mad world is to go mad yourself a la Donald sutherland in kelly's heroes, or Colonel Kurtz in that well known 'Nam film.
Maybe I shouldn't drink in the afternoon. Damn this rain! damn britain!
Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:A couple of years ago I would have been excited but I kinda went off comic books. I watched an Alan Moore interview about how fascist Batman was, and how juvenile and simplistic superheroes in general were. It's the whole 'Oh no I've got powers should I save the world or turn bad, but lucky for me, Aunt May knows what to do kinda thing' that gets my goat.
Have you...have watched any of the other Nolan Batman films? They are certainly made in the post-Watchman comic book world. There are consequences and things don't always work out the way the hero wants. In juvenile and simplistic stories the girl doesn't get blown up. Also, Moore is one of my favorite writers, but he also can be incredibly dour and humorless at times.
Anung Un Rama wrote:And I'm not sure I like Bane. I knew they wouldn't possibly go for the Mexican wrestler thing, but the mask seems weird.
I'm not a big advocate of Bane either, but so far Nolan has done a pretty good job of making the characters interesting and creating a sense of verisimilitude so I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt at the moment.
Ahtman wrote:Also, Moore is one of my favorite writers, but he also can be incredibly dour and humorless at times.
You forgot "grumpy as hell".
Ahtman wrote:
Anung Un Rama wrote:And I'm not sure I like Bane. I knew they wouldn't possibly go for the Mexican wrestler thing, but the mask seems weird.
I'm not a big advocate of Bane either, but so far Nolan has done a pretty good job of making the characters interesting and creating a sense of verisimilitude so I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt at the moment.
Laughing Man wrote:Wonder if he'll go for the Knight Fall ending. It'd be fun to watch Bane win...
Maybe he does win... in the beginning. Hence Batman is out of the game for part of the film. Remember Nolan condensed the Harvey Dent/Two face character arc into one film and then killed him off. He might try to do the same with the whole Knightfall story arc. It's not inconceivable. You just drop stuff like the Arkham break out and the psycopathic Batman replacement. Batman gets beaten. Training montage. Batman comes back (hmm... sounds a bit like Rocky).
As for Alan Moore, he is a grumpy git. Watchmen was better than it had any right to be given the complexity of the book and Snyder's ending made more sense. Given that Moore has always moaned that the films of his works never resemble his books, on the one occassion they stuck to it like glue (ending aside), he could have at least given it the time of day. I've not read the article about him complaining that Batman is a fascist, but didn't he write one or two Batman books (e.g. The Killing Joke)?
My only problem is that this seems to be the last in the series, would have love to have seen Nolan's vision of the Riddler, Penguin, Mr. Freeze and Poison Ivy.
Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:A couple of years ago I would have been excited but I kinda went off comic books. I watched an Alan Moore interview about how fascist Batman was, and how juvenile and simplistic superheroes in general were. It's the whole 'Oh no I've got powers should I save the world or turn bad, but lucky for me, Aunt May knows what to do kinda thing' that gets my goat.
Have you...have watched any of the other Nolan Batman films? They are certainly made in the post-Watchman comic book world. There are consequences and things don't always work out the way the hero wants. In juvenile and simplistic stories the girl doesn't get blown up. Also, Moore is one of my favorite writers, but he also can be incredibly dour and humorless at times.
Gwen Stacy from Spider-Man would disagree with you... she wasn't blown up, but she was killed, by Parker/Spidey no less...
Cheesecat wrote:My only problem is that this seems to be the last in the series, would have love to have seen Nolan's vision of the Riddler, Penguin, Mr. Freeze and Poison Ivy.
He probably never would have done Freeze or Ivy. In fact, when asked if he would do Mr. Freeze he pretty much said that the villain wasn't realistic or believable enough for him to waste his time.
I don't care for spy photos because they lack context, lighting, and the camera work of the DP. It is like seeing a picture of a piece of a puzzle, not even the puzzle piece itself.
I can't say I "like" the Bane costume, but of course that may change once it's viewed in the actual film and not just a single still.
...It is however a marked improvement over the previous Bane outfit.
...Still say Nolan should have gone with Penguin or Riddler.
Im down with the Bane idea so far, he was one of my fav batvillians anyways. But I agree with ya FITZZ, a zodiac style riddler would just be so sick. Maybe someday if grimdark becomes the thing, we will get to see THAT riddler
Ahtman wrote:I don't care for spy photos because they lack context, lighting, and the camera work of the DP. It is like seeing a picture of a piece of a puzzle, not even the puzzle piece itself.
Ahtman wrote:I don't care for spy photos because they lack context, lighting, and the camera work of the DP. It is like seeing a picture of a piece of a puzzle, not even the puzzle piece itself.
Ceci n'est pas une Bane.
Slightly off topic, but this is my favorite spin on that:
The combination of high falutin' art and pop culture trash hits me right in the sweet spot.
Catwoman looks about how I expected except for the lack of a hood. Maybe it wasn't gritty enough, but I think the costume falls a tad short without it. They retained the front zipper from the comics, though.
gorgon wrote:Catwoman looks about how I expected except for the lack of a hood. Maybe it wasn't gritty enough, but I think the costume falls a tad short without it. They retained the front zipper from the comics, though.
Maybe she has a hood, it's just not in this scene?
I have never ridden a motorcycle, but I imagine wearing a hood on one would be nigh impossible.
KingCracker wrote:
I have to agree...its a black suit. So what. I mean...its.....a black suit. Thats a costume now?
There's really not much to the current Catwoman costume in the comics...it's just a catsuit with a hood, ears and googles, basically. So drop the ears like they have here and it's overly plain, IMO. Unless it shows up later. Still, might be a case of Nolan being a little too obsessive about keeping things "real". Especially considering Batman has no lack of big pointy ears.
Slarg232 wrote:
gorgon wrote:Catwoman looks about how I expected except for the lack of a hood. Maybe it wasn't gritty enough, but I think the costume falls a tad short without it. They retained the front zipper from the comics, though.
Maybe she has a hood, it's just not in this scene?
I have never ridden a motorcycle, but I imagine wearing a hood on one would be nigh impossible.
Don't mean a hoody, but a tight hood over the head.
KingCracker wrote:
I have to agree...its a black suit. So what. I mean...its.....a black suit. Thats a costume now?
Costume design is based not only on how you want the actress to look, but how the actress will look. If you have a particular woman in mind, say one who is approaching 30 and has never been in what Hollywood would consider impeccable shape, your choices are limited.
KingCracker wrote:
I have to agree...its a black suit. So what. I mean...its.....a black suit. Thats a costume now?
Costume design is based not only on how you want the actress to look, but how the actress will look. If you have a particular woman in mind, say one who is approaching 30 and has never been in what Hollywood would consider impeccable shape, your choices are limited.
Flashman wrote:
Are you saying Anne Hathaway is fat?
I'm saying that the fact that a woman is attractive does not mean that she will look good in Catwoman's nominal bodysuit.
Katy Perry is attractive too, but I doubt she would be able to pull off the Black Widow look from Iron Man 2, which was noted as a struggle for Ms. Johansson.
Based on the one picture I've seen (your link doesn't work, so I can't see anything there) it is very tight in the arms (which are easy to shape with fabric), but shows significant pooling (a sign of loose fabric) around the torso.
Disclaimer: I dated a number of costume/fashion designers.
Flashman wrote:
Are you saying Anne Hathaway is fat?
I'm saying that the fact that a woman is attractive does not mean that she will look good in Catwoman's nominal bodysuit.
Katy Perry is attractive too, but I doubt she would be able to pull off the Black Widow look from Iron Man 2, which was noted as a struggle for Ms. Johansson.
Agreed. Katy Perry wouldn't have the same goodnes that Ms. Johansson did in that outfit.
Disclaimer: I dated a number of costume/fashion designers.
I have faith in Nolan. Costumes are an irrelevance to be honest. For me, it's all about how the characters are developed and played.
And you can't have everyone with"issues" which mean they feel a need to put on a daft costume. Batman covers this idiosyncracy perfectly adequately with out extending it to the entire cast.
Flashman wrote:I have faith in Nolan. Costumes are an irrelevance to be honest. For me, it's all about how the characters are developed and played.
And you can't have everyone with"issues" which mean they feel a need to put on a daft costume. Batman covers this idiosyncracy perfectly adequately with out extending it to the entire cast.
Costumes are part of character development, when done well. A bad costume can ruin a character. For example, if the Bat wore a pink leotard few people would take it seriously.
dogma wrote:
Disclaimer: I dated a number of costume/fashion designers.
That explains it then. Anne Hathaway is more than attractive enough to be Catwoman even though she may not have the body of Halle Berry kind of like Trinity in the Matrix.
Flashman wrote:I have faith in Nolan. Costumes are an irrelevance to be honest. For me, it's all about how the characters are developed and played.
And you can't have everyone with"issues" which mean they feel a need to put on a daft costume. Batman covers this idiosyncracy perfectly adequately with out extending it to the entire cast.
Costumes are part of character development, when done well. A bad costume can ruin a character. For example, if the Bat wore a pink leotard few people would take it seriously.
Yes, but what Hathaway is wearing is hardly out of context. At the end of the day, Catwoman/Selina Kyle is a thief. She doesn't need to dress like a cat to steal things.
Batman on the other hand is trying to instill fear in the criminal populace, hence the decision to be "theatrical" in his attire (to quote Batman Begins).
I'm not sure my argument is aimed at you Dogma. I've lost track of which point you were making
I doubt she'll ever be referred to as Catwoman in the movie.; she will be Selina Kyle. Now they may drop a reference to her being a cat burglar or something to that effect. I think Flashman is right in that they aren't going to have her dress as a cat.
Although the character is CATwoman. As much as Nolan touts keeping the series grounded and "real," there's some pretty ridiculous stuff. Even Two-Face got a very over-the-top scarred side. Nolan coulda gone with terrible surface scarring, etc. But no, he went full comic book, lidless eye, exposed jaw and all. And Catwoman can't get a hat with little ears?
Perhaps the character will only be Selina Kyle, and not Catwoman explicitly. It'd be an odd choice, but then Nolan's unafraid to make fairly significant character alterations. Consider Two-Face. His character -- again, despite the comic-booky burns -- was really just a guy pi$$ed off about his girlfriend's death and not the multiple personality crime boss of the comics. He was very much comic Two-Face on the outside -- coin and all -- but completely different internally.
Also note that rumors point to Catwoman being a vigilante filling in for Batman instead of a professional thief. Not what I expected, given that the latter would work perfectly well in the film universe, but like with Two-Face I suppose it's all part of the story he wants to tell.
Hmm. I'm not sure what I'm arguing anymore either. Other than that Catwoman needs a hat.
dogma wrote:It is actually pretty interesting when you start looking at the costume, and what it does to the body, rather than at the body.
Nope, not even going to try. Too worried about the "what is seen cannot be unseen." I enjoy looking at the body too much
Ahtman wrote:I doubt she'll ever be referred to as Catwoman in the movie.; she will be Selina Kyle. Now they may drop a reference to her being a cat burglar or something to that effect. I think Flashman is right in that they aren't going to have her dress as a cat.
So Nolan is taking the most iconic Batman villain (in this movie) and removing everything that makes her character unique. I suppose he did the same with Two Face and Ra's Al Ghul (taking them from major threats to supporting cast), but the Joker and Scarecrow really stood out in their place. I just don't see that happening with Bane.
Again, based wholly on your speculation and a single still from the movie, but that all seems to be a reasonable interpretation based on the available information. Plus, would anyone ever cast Anne Hathaway in a "bad girl" role?
Most iconic Batman villain? Catwoman? YEAH RIGHT. That honor definitely goes to Joker. Half the folks that walk into the theater aren't even going to know that Selina Kyle = Catwoman. Hell, a lot of the younger ones probably wouldn't even realize Selina Kyle was Batwoman if she was was wearing a more appropriate Catwoman costume, I've known several people that were completely unaware that Catwoman and Batman were part of the same continuity. Joker on the other hand... there are kids in 3rd world countries that haven't eaten in weeks that know Joker is Batman's greatest enemy.
Not only that, but she isn't even a villain. More of an anti-heroine.
I dunno about Bane. Figure Joker is alone on the first tier, he's the arch-enemy. Would anyone argue against Riddler and Two-Face firmly on the second tier? If we can agree to that, does Bane truly fit alongside them? It's questionable, if you ask me. The non-readers may not know that Selina Kyle = Catwoman, but they know Catwoman, Riddler and Two-Face much better than Bane.
What about the Penguin vs. Bane? I figure they're almost opposites. Penguin is iconic and has the long history, but no real defining moment in the comics. Bane is a newer villain (at least for Batman's rogue's gallery), (arguably) not as iconic, but has the one great storyline. Who's on a higher tier?
Back more on topic, it seems like that the Nolan formula is two villains, one more or less the comics version, and one a more significant departure.
Also just heard some of the Steelers will have cameos in the TDKR scenes shot at Heinz Field
Automatically Appended Next Post:
chaos0xomega wrote:Not only that, but she isn't even a villain. More of an anti-heroine.
That's accurate in current continuity, but she was a criminal and villain for a decent stretch of Batman history. Like I said, rumors were that she fills in for Batman in some fashion, so maybe she's more of a straight-up "hero" in TDKR? At least as far as heroes go in Nolan's universe.
dogma wrote:It is actually pretty interesting when you start looking at the costume, and what it does to the body, rather than at the body.
Nope, not even going to try. Too worried about the "what is seen cannot be unseen." I enjoy looking at the body too much
Ahtman wrote:I doubt she'll ever be referred to as Catwoman in the movie.; she will be Selina Kyle. Now they may drop a reference to her being a cat burglar or something to that effect. I think Flashman is right in that they aren't going to have her dress as a cat.
So Nolan is taking the most iconic Batman villain (in this movie) and removing everything that makes her character unique. I suppose he did the same with Two Face and Ra's Al Ghul (taking them from major threats to supporting cast), but the Joker and Scarecrow really stood out in their place. I just don't see that happening with Bane.
Again, based wholly on your speculation and a single still from the movie, but that all seems to be a reasonable interpretation based on the available information. Plus, would anyone ever cast Anne Hathaway in a "bad girl" role?
Except that she has only been confirmed as playing Selina Kyle, the name Catwoman has only been brought up by people postulating about the movie, and saying "she doesn't look enough like catwoman!", when the character isn't catwoman, its Selina Kyle.
KingCracker wrote:I just want to go on record and say that Heath Ledger did beyond an awsome job as the Joker. He honestly came off as a total nutjob
He played it so well that he developed insomnia, meaning that he needed sleeping pills, leading to his death.
Goliath wrote:...when she isn't catwoman, shes Selina Kyle.
Say what?
Sorry, now that I have re-read it my initial post was poorly worded.
Nolan has given no mention of the name Catwoman.
The character in the photos isn't Catwoman, its Selina Kyle.
So the people complaining about her not looking "catty" enough, are effectively complaining that Bruce Wayne doesn't look bat-like, when not wearing his bat suit.
Kanluwen wrote:Why? To remember how awesome it was?
There's some truth to that. Jim Carrey had some great potential for the Riddler, but the script and the costume ruined it.
I actually agree, Carrey did have some good moments as the Riddler, mostly near the beginning of the film...
However, in my perfect world...The Riddler would be the current Nolan " bad guy" and would be played by none other than this man...
...But of course that's just my wish listing...
I think Batman Forever's casting went something like this...
"Which of the main villains haven't we done yet?"
"The Riddler."
"Ok, cool. Who's really hot right now?"
"Jim Carrey."
"Great, get me his agent."
Carrey was very much in his buffoonery phase (like it or loathe it) at that point and the success of his recent hits allowed the film to driven by his pratting about. I'm not saying he didn't make me chuckle ("Tell the fat lady she's on in five."), but it wasn't Batman (although it was slightly more Batman than the travesty that followed).
EDIT - And for those still grumbling about costumes or lack there of...
Kanluwen wrote:To be fair, it was as Batman as Adam West's series was.
I would say it was less, actually. The West Batman series at least had a coherent vision and follow through as opposed trying to be campy (and failing) and gothic (and failing) at the same time.
Goliath wrote:
So the people complaining about her not looking "catty" enough, are effectively complaining that Bruce Wayne doesn't look bat-like, when not wearing his bat suit.
Ah, I understand your point now. At first it seemed you claiming that Selina Kyle and Catwoman were entirely unrelated.
Kanluwen wrote:To be fair, it was as Batman as Adam West's series was.
I would say it was less, actually. The West Batman series at least had a coherent vision and follow through as opposed trying to be campy (and failing) and gothic (and failing) at the same time.
That's what happens when you switch from Tim Burton to Joel Schumacher.
I thought Batman Returns was fantastic when I was a little kid.
As I got older, it kind of became a bit more 'campy'.
For me, Bale is the "definitive" Batman as we've seen him in the comics. If Nolan had gone a bit more 'superpowered' I would have been ecstatic though.
It is true that whilst I once loved Danny Elfman's music, it's total saturation of everything and anything in the entertainment business has bored me to the point of total ambivalence.
Kanluwen wrote:I thought Batman Returns was fantastic when I was a little kid.
As I got older, it kind of became a bit more 'campy'.
For me, Bale is the "definitive" Batman as we've seen him in the comics. If Nolan had gone a bit more 'superpowered' I would have been ecstatic though.
I wish Nolan made Batman more of a detective like in the animated series and/or comics. He doesn't seem as super-intelligent as he should but overall its a solid take on the character.
Which is one more than anyone else ever did. I mean, Bats has beaten up Superman on occasion.
Flashman wrote:then he had his butt kicked by Azrael
A guy wearing an Iron Man suit beat up a guy who didn't, and he had plot on his side.
Flashman wrote:who in turn eventually had his butt kicked by Batman (after a good training montage).
Well Batman was only broken once before so the odds he was going to come back and lose again so the odds of him losing weren't good. Also, he had plot on his side.
biccat wrote:
Simply because he was an effective villain doesn't raise him to a top-tier villain.
I mean, I probably wouldn't consider him a top-tier villain either, but my top-tier of Batman villains is basically Joker; with everyone else behind him due to his sheer awesomeness. However, I would place Bane on par with Poison Ivy and Two-face, at the very least.
Catwoman is of debatable villain status, she's more of an opponent or rival in that she is very rarely "evil" in the sense of Joker, Two-face, and other classic comic book villains.
biccat wrote:
In fact, it may be even less likely to make them a top-tier villain. Nobody wants to see a villain who wins all the time.
He doesn't win all the time, but he has won, and is one of maybe 3 villains that actually threaten Batman himself. Most of the others simply threaten Gotham in order to either accomplish a goal related to Gotham, or to annoy Batman.
Imo the big problem in comparing Bane to typical Batman villains is that he came about in the early 90's while most of the other ones like Poison Ivy, Catwoman, Penguin, Riddler, etc. came from the 60's or even earlier. Thats why he seems second class legacy-wise to just about all of those guys even though he's a relatively interesting and powerful villain in his own right.
Wow out of the top 12, 4 of them are from Batman which is the most out of any of the other franchises at the top. Bane's the 5th highest rated Batman villain but way down at no.34 overall FWIW
Kanluwen wrote:Bane is a nasty customer, and perfectly acceptable as a "top tier" villain.
He has that nasty combination of brain and brawn which is what makes him so deadly in my mind.
It's just a shame that the portrayals we've seen have mostly been of the "brawn".
That god damn Batman and Robin movie was responsible for that. The animated series and comics made him a much more interesting character.
The animated series, which came before Batman and Robin, certainly didn't make him out consistently to be the "cunning" person he was portrayed as in the comics.
But yeah. He needs a good understanding to be portrayed in all his awesome.
Kanluwen wrote:The animated series, which came before Batman and Robin, certainly didn't make him out consistently to be the "cunning" person he was portrayed as in the comics.
But yeah. He needs a good understanding to be portrayed in all his awesome.
The animated series made Bane a relatively cunning character nonetheless.
That crappy Batman and Robin movie turned Bane into a grunting idiot.
Kanluwen wrote:The animated series, which came before Batman and Robin, certainly didn't make him out consistently to be the "cunning" person he was portrayed as in the comics.
He was cunning in the series, very much like Conan. In the comics he had more of a villainous Beast thing going, where he was intellectual and brutally imposing.
It is difficult, culturally, to portray a character that is both an intellectual force, and a physical one because popular media tends to revolve around the physical resolution of disputes, and therefore the "smartest" path will often be the one that involves the physically impressive character breaking lots of things; and that isn't something many people appreciate at first glance.
For example, Darkseid is a weak character because he often has no reason to not vaporize things with eye-beams other than not wanting to, which is a weak rationale in the absence of some kind of debilitating trauma.
Kanluwen wrote:The animated series, which came before Batman and Robin, certainly didn't make him out consistently to be the "cunning" person he was portrayed as in the comics.
He was cunning in the series, very much like Conan. In the comics he had more of a villainous Beast thing going, where he was intellectual and brutally imposing.
It is difficult, culturally, to portray a character that is both an intellectual force, and a physical one because popular media tends to revolve around the physical resolution of disputes, and therefore the "smartest" path will often be the one that involves the physically impressive character breaking lots of things; and that isn't something many people appreciate at first glance.
For example, Darkseid is a weak character because he often has no reason to not vaporize things with eye-beams other than not wanting to, which is a weak rationale in the absence of some kind of debilitating trauma.
I'll have to rewatch the series, because I don't remember him being all that cunning.
I remember him, at one point, being outwitted by Batman with a teddy bear(albeit a teddy bear that he had growing up inside a political prison but still).
Deathstroke has beaten him(Bats) at least twice(the commonly agreed upon number of times is 3).
Then again, we're talking about someone who not only beat up half the JSA and JLA at the same time [i]by himself[/b], but also posed as Batman and was good enough at it to fool Dick Grayson for months.
Kanluwen wrote:The animated series, which came before Batman and Robin, certainly didn't make him out consistently to be the "cunning" person he was portrayed as in the comics.
He was cunning in the series, very much like Conan. In the comics he had more of a villainous Beast thing going, where he was intellectual and brutally imposing.
It is difficult, culturally, to portray a character that is both an intellectual force, and a physical one because popular media tends to revolve around the physical resolution of disputes, and therefore the "smartest" path will often be the one that involves the physically impressive character breaking lots of things; and that isn't something many people appreciate at first glance.
For example, Darkseid is a weak character because he often has no reason to not vaporize things with eye-beams other than not wanting to, which is a weak rationale in the absence of some kind of debilitating trauma.
I'll have to rewatch the series, because I don't remember him being all that cunning.
I remember him, at one point, being outwitted by Batman with a teddy bear(albeit a teddy bear that he had growing up inside a political prison but still).
Here are excerpts from a wiki summarizing the first episode with Bane that demonstrate some of his cunning abilities although everyone loses to Batman in the end (and imo the Nolan Batman fails to capture Batman's genius level IQ and detective abilities):
Rather than rushing in, Bane, curious to know how Batman fights, decides to tail the recently-escaped Killer Croc to a construction yard, where Croc is already on the run from Batman and Robin. Bane confronts Croc in the sewer, and brutally beats him, knocking him out. To leave his calling card, Bane literally smashes up the front of the Batmobile with his bare hands.
----
Meanwhile, Bane and Candice grow closer, plotting to overthrow and kill Thorne to take over his criminal empire. Robin spies on Thorne and Bane with binoculars from a nearby building as Batman tails Candace in the now-repaired Batmobile. Unfortunately, Bane sneaks up behind Robin and a rooftop chase ensues. Robin holds his own, but is eventually caught and knocked out by the chemically-enhanced behemoth.
Batman follows Candace to her apartment and starts questioning her about Bane. Candace tells him that Bane is fascinated by him, knows everything about him, and Bane's biggest dream is to defeat him. Just as Candace mocks Batman for not realizing that Bane is spying on him too, Batman receives a call from Bane himself, saying that he has kidnapped Robin - for proof, leaving his costume shirt on a nearby satellite dish for Batman to see - and ordering Batman to the wharves. As Batman flies, Candace leaves for the same destination.
---
http://dcanimated.wikia.com/wiki/Bane_(episode)
Much more cunning than the Bane featured in the god damn Batman and Robin movie which is responsible for turning Bane from an articulate and cunning super-assassin to a grunting and idiotic plaything.
Cane wrote:and imo the Nolan Batman fails to capture Batman's genius level IQ and detective abilities
Nolan's Batman is more about exploring themes, fear in Batman Begins, anarchy in The Dark Knight.
I agree that the detective angle would an interesting route to go down for the inevitable reboot. Although rather than another film, I think a Batman TV series pitched somewhere between 24 and The Wire would work very well.
Flashman wrote: I agree that the detective angle would an interesting route to go down for the inevitable reboot.
Know what shows a good detective style Batman(if you removed the humor)? The Robert Downey Jr. Sherlock holmes. That whole movie was very reminiscent of Comic Bats(even down to the pre-thought out fight ala Hush).
Also, watch the Commentary for Daredevil and count how many times the director says something akin to "Well, I was thinking if I was doing a Batman movie...".
Deathstroke has beaten him(Bats) at least twice(the commonly agreed upon number of times is 3).
Then again, we're talking about someone who not only beat up half the JSA and JLA at the same time [i]by himself[/b], but also posed as Batman and was good enough at it to fool Dick Grayson for months.
He knocked Batman out but he didn't break him completely the way Bane did, and considering that Deathstroke is metahuman and takes on groups of metahumans typically it shouldn't be all that surprising. I should have been more clear that I wasn't referring to just winning in hand to hand, which Deathstroke has done, but in actually utterly destroying him. He made Batman a paraplegic and it took comic book magic to bring him back, he wasn't just knocked unconscious.
Mannahnin wrote:Any kind of win over Batman counts as a heck of an accomplishment.
Which is why I hate most comics.... Where is the Bad Guys winning every so often?
You want villains winning? Read Wanted. It's a world where the Super Villains got together, got organized, and killed all the Heroes.
See, but that's not good either; let the heroes win some, let the villains win some.
I just read a big huge "Top 100 Comic Book villains" and you know what half of them were qualified by? "Being their rival" and yet losing almost every time. That's not a rival, that's a beat stick....
Ahtman wrote:He knocked Batman out but he didn't break him completely the way Bane did, and considering that Deathstroke is metahuman and takes on groups of metahumans typically it shouldn't be all that surprising. I should have been more clear that I wasn't referring to just winning in hand to hand, which Deathstroke has done, but in actually utterly destroying him. He made Batman a paraplegic and it took comic book magic to bring him back, he wasn't just knocked unconscious.
I didn't know Deathstroke was Metahuman. I thought he was "only" a regular assassin and one of the few humans who can actually take on Batman in hand to hand combat based only on skill.
Ahtman wrote:He knocked Batman out but he didn't break him completely the way Bane did, and considering that Deathstroke is metahuman and takes on groups of metahumans typically it shouldn't be all that surprising. I should have been more clear that I wasn't referring to just winning in hand to hand, which Deathstroke has done, but in actually utterly destroying him. He made Batman a paraplegic and it took comic book magic to bring him back, he wasn't just knocked unconscious.
I didn't know Deathstroke was Metahuman. I thought he was "only" a regular assassin and one of the few humans who can actually take on Batman in hand to hand combat based only on skill.
Platuan4th wrote:But him being meta-human doesn't mean squat, since Bats has many meta-human villains himself and he's beating metas weekly with the League.
Plot armor is pretty sweet to have. It is also I think one of the reasons why Nolan didn't plant his Batman in the DC Universe. You have to come up with some pretty crazy stuff to explain how a regular guy can be effective in a world with Parallax, Darkseid, Superman, Lobo, the Green Lantern Corps, ect ect. Without plot armor he'd be squished like a bug on a windshield.
The ring itself is not plot armor, but the fact that Batman has the chance to use it is. The thing about being able to throw buses at people is that you can throw buses at people, which tends to be lethal.
Kanluwen wrote:Well, we know why he can kick Supe's butt.
He has a ring with green kryptonite in it.
I've always said that he should have the kryptonite shaped into a batwing so that if he has to pimpslap Superman again, he leaves a ring impression.
Spoiler:
On the subject of Bane, being a good villain doesn't simply mean that he's effective, he has to also be memorable, characterful, and iconic to the series.
Bane isn't particularly memorable outside of his defeat of Batman. Characters like the Joker, the Riddler, Catwoman, etc, all have memorable relationships with Batman.
Bane also isn't particularly characterful. What's his threat? He's strong and smart. Big deal, Batman has dozens of those types of villains, and he'll have dozens more.
Finally, Bane isn't iconic, because he's not that old and hasn't been adapted to a lot of other media. Put simply, the Batman story can be told fine without Bane, in a way that it couldn't without Joker, Catwoman, Ras, or to a lesser extent, the Riddler and Scarcrow.
So Bane isn't a top-tier villain simply because he's not that important to the story. There are plenty of other villains that could have taken his place to make a better story.
More Catwoman shots including intriguing action scene which expands on the batpod picture. You can take a lot out of this ation shot, so if you're avoiding spoilers, don't click.
Platuan4th wrote:But him being meta-human doesn't mean squat, since Bats has many meta-human villains himself and he's beating metas weekly with the League.
Plot armor is pretty sweet to have. It is also I think one of the reasons why Nolan didn't plant his Batman in the DC Universe. You have to come up with some pretty crazy stuff to explain how a regular guy can be effective in a world with Parallax, Darkseid, Superman, Lobo, the Green Lantern Corps, ect ect. Without plot armor he'd be squished like a bug on a windshield.
Which is exactly my point about the difficulty with superhero teamup stories. Old JLA stories (talking '70s here) always seemed to deal with this by having Superman taken out of action somehow, someway, leaving the rest of the league free to do their thing. Another commonly-used device is having the team split up to handle stuff that suits their particular power level.
Will be interesting to see how the Avengers handles a team with Hulk, Iron Man and Thor on one side and Cap, Widow and Hawkeye on the other. Yeah, they make it work in the comics, but it'll be harder to pull off with live-action.
IIRC, Nolan's said he has an idea how he'll reboot Batman for the JL movie. Wonder if he'll be more of the detective/brains guy, thus leaving the heavy hitters to do their thing?
MeanGreenStompa wrote:Still wanted my poison ivy...
Christina Hendricks ROOL:
As for Riddler and Two Face, they've always come across as second tier to me. Maybe not Two-face but Riddler? Really? He aws never much of a villain...
Same for the Penguin. He has some name recognition, and he was kinda big due to the Adam West series, but he's really more of a gang leader than a villain.
KingCracker wrote:Aww MAN I loved the animated series. That was a friggin great cartoon, kindda felt a little bit like dick Tracy but cooler and darker.
Thats 'grimdark' done right. Even drew it on black paper in order to make it more bleak looking, etc. Loved that series, between that and Tim Burton's Batman movies and Arkham Asylum, Gotham City becomes one of the most unique settings on Earth and his Rogues Gallery becomes a truly deep and exciting tapestry. While the Nolan films are good, and Bale is the best Batman we've seen yet, Gotham doesn't feel like Gotham, more like Chicago (which is dumb, Gotham is totally NYC/ New York Cities ugly twin in New Jersey), and the story really doesn't feel much like Batman.
Same for the Penguin. He has some name recognition, and he was kinda big due to the Adam West series, but he's really more of a gang leader than a villain.
Which, again, is PERFECT for Nolan's Batman, considering the previous 2 movies have revolved around the mob in some way.
I think the use of fear is an important theme in the films as well. In the the first film Batman uses fear as a weapon to fight crime. In the second The Joker, who has no fear at all, uses fear as a weapon against Gotham. In the comics Bane was afraid as a kid and eventually turned that fear into power and one of the reasons he lashed out against Batman was because Batman is one of the most feared people in the DC world, and so he had to defeat the Bat to defeat a symbol of fear. Not sure if that will be in the movie in any way, of course.
chaos0xomega wrote:While the Nolan films are good, and Bale is the best Batman we've seen yet, Gotham doesn't feel like Gotham, more like Chicago (which is dumb, Gotham is totally NYC/ New York Cities ugly twin in New Jersey), and the story really doesn't feel much like Batman.
I agree that Gotham is clearly an aspect of NYC (as is Metropolis, although that also seems to have gotten a retcon of sorts in some mediums). But perhaps Nolan chose Chicago because of its old reputation as a gangland.
Slightly OT, but one of the most interesting ideas I've seen regarding Gotham and Metropolis vs. NYC was something written by a random internet poster back when WB was kicking around a Superman-Batman teamup movie. The poster said that it'd be interesting to have Metropolis and Gotham be the *same city* -- so that Metropolis is how Superman sees the city -- bright, optimistic, futuristic -- and Gotham is how Batman sees it -- dark, crime-ridden, rotten. I think that'd be fascinating.
Metropolis is NYC, Gotham is the Chi. Wayne tower was originally based on a building in Chicago. Besides, Batman's way to boss to live in New York, he knows what's up.
