as the title said, it either the army you hate playing, hate the fluff, or just plain hate.

for me it would be orks (sorry all you ork go-ers) i just have never liked them or there fluff

Space Wolves. I f****** hate everything about them.

I hate smurfs

cbosw5 wrote:I hate smurfs

no! no! not cool, nobody, NOBODY, hates smurfs uncool man jks

all of them but orks. they are the stupidest, shootiest orks around. they are funny though, they blow themselves up by accident, they start fighting before they get there. and shoot snotings into the warp. i play orks and enjoy the comical humour that goes with it, it might just be me, but i enjoy having a laugh when playing 40k and orks does it for me. enjoy

OrkSquigBreath wrote:all of them but orks. they are the stupidest, shootiest orks around. they are funny though, they blow themselves up by accident, they start fighting before they get there. and shoot snotings into the warp. i play orks and enjoy the comical humour that goes with it, it might just be me, but i enjoy having a laugh when playing 40k and orks does it for me. enjoy

i personally love haveing 87 lasgun shots and only cuaseing like 3 wounds (2 deaths) thats pretty funny

Thats not very nice Coolyo! I'd say I hate the Blood Angels.

Blood Angels or Space Wolves... Which one do I hate the most...

Something tells me this thread will eventually be locked, but the biggest nuisance for me on the tabletop would be Space Wolves.

I'd have to say the ultrasmurfs too. Just can't stand them at all.

Space Wolves. Whilst the general concept (a viking Chapter!) is rather cool, they just overdone it with all those special snowflake exceptions:
- they gak on the Codex Astartes and generally behave like a gang of bikers (in short, there's no narrative balance to their superhuman traits)
- rampant mutation, no backlash
- killing off loyal Imperials left and right, no backlash
- The Fang apparently being harder to take than the Imperial Palace on Terra, even when seriously undermanned
- SW can take on the entire Segmentum Pacificus Navy, despite all sources saying SM fleets aren't supposed to be able to challenge the Navy even in a one-on-one
- ... but I guess that's because they have a fleet of Battle Barges

... and the list goes on. Also, their names seem to get worse as every edition adds a further layer of "wolf" or "wolfson" to something.

Sad. At the core, the idea is very cool. But the execution and overhype ruined it. My suspension of disbelief has limits.

SwiftLord14 wrote:Thats not very nice Coolyo! I'd say I hate the Blood Angels.

My opinion is my opinion, and that opinion involves a fierce hatred of Space Furries.

coolyo294 wrote:

SwiftLord14 wrote:Thats not very nice Coolyo! I'd say I hate the Blood Angels.

My opinion is my opinion, and that opinion involves a fierce hatred of Space Furries.

HAHAH its all good bro. At least you didnt make a list of why you hate them!

Definately Dark Eldar. They have some cool weapons, but everything about them seems to be out of place in 40k.

Space Puppies.

Because what is the point of creating a gaming system, a set of rules, and a general unit template that can apply to all codex armies, then creating a codex army that contradicts all of those rules?

Frustrating.

Black Legion. No question. Their fluff is ridiculous, they make absolutely no sense. I hate them more than I can say. Their very existence brings down the quality of the entire game world.

Grey Knights. I mean, they're awesome as an army, but fluff-wise, I hate them. They're dicks.

coolyo294 wrote:Space Wolves. I f****** hate everything about them.

Haters gonna hate...

the new grey knights, i think they've ruined them, i prefer my old daemon hunters codex

Space marines. I have a total and crazy hate of all SM chapters.

Tau. They were my first army, and were so boring to play I quit the game for 6 years.

tau.......I hate the fish people

I hate playing against Necrons. People screw up their own rules a lot.

Dark Eldar.

Oh, look at all those venoms. /yawn

Necrons or Tau...moreso Tau, in the fluff sense, and the way they play. shoot, bounce, shoot some more, but once you get a hand on thier throats it's over. And then when your Ork army outshoots them...hehehehe...anyway. I'm just not a fan of Crons as they just seem like Space Undead crossed with the T-1000. Stupid Star Gods, and other stuff, HOWEVER, unlike Tau there aren't boring, and the Necrons fit the 40K universe so much better then the Tau's Goody goody stance.

From fluff perspective, I don't like Andy Hoare and how he shoehorned some important sounding fluff in the Tau dex. I don't hate the Tau, I just hate how Andy wrote them.

On the table I hate Necrons and Imperial Guard. I hate Necrons on TT because their book is almost an unholy tome of unclear rules that sometimes are in their favor, and then sometimes not. I hate Imperial Guard because there's just too much of them here, and almost everywhere else. I'm also sick, sick, sick, SICK of "Jam tank in corner behind impassible terrain, LOS-blocking cover, and MOAR tanks but need not worry about LOS or enemies getting cover saves 'cause we ignore it" strategy.

Dark Eldar, something about them just annoys me.

Do we really need one of these threads every three weeks? I guess I'd have to say Necrons because I so rarely have interesting games against them. It's not even a contest usually, and I either wipe them off with my Guard or charge them with my Marines/Orks.

I hate hate hate the new grey knights. The old fluff and the old codex was great back when i played them but now this stupid draigo guy, crowe, almost everything about that codex goes against all the old fluff and all the new rules. they are simply Mod Edit: Language

Riddick40k wrote:slowed

That word, I do not think you know what it means.

Depends, what army is currently beating me?

I hate Tau.

from a fluff standpoint, they don't deserve a Codex simply because they are so tiny in the scheme of things.

they have only 100 or so planets with most being little under populated outposts,

they have soooo much Plot Armor its scary. The damocles gulf crusade, a very tiny one by all Imperial standards, nearly carved its way into the Empire's heart. the Tau were saved from a much larger crusade by Abbaddon's timely Black Crusade which pulled support from the Tau's annhilation campaign.

Their whole 'greater good' thing is annoying. They claim to be all for unifying everyone in a perfect society. down that thrice dammned path lies Socialism which leads to Communisim which doesn't work.

the Tau were also unheard of in the fluff before release. they were invented by GW to capitalize on the Anime craze and the opening of the first GW in Japan.

Grey Templar wrote:I hate Tau.

from a fluff standpoint, they don't deserve a Codex simply because they are so tiny in the scheme of things.

they have only 100 or so planets with most being little under populated outposts,

they have soooo much Plot Armor its scary. The damocles gulf crusade, a very tiny one by all Imperial standards, nearly carved its way into the Empire's heart. the Tau were saved from a much larger crusade by Abbaddon's timely Black Crusade which pulled support from the Tau's annhilation campaign.

Their whole 'greater good' thing is annoying. They claim to be all for unifying everyone in a perfect society. down that thrice dammned path lies Socialism which leads to Communisim which doesn't work.

the Tau were also unheard of in the fluff before release. they were invented by GW to capitalize on the Anime craze and the opening of the first GW in Japan.

+1 to this.

Space Wolves, it's a love /hate relationship.

coolyo294 wrote:

Grey Templar wrote:I hate Tau.

from a fluff standpoint, they don't deserve a Codex simply because they are so tiny in the scheme of things.

they have only 100 or so planets with most being little under populated outposts,

they have soooo much Plot Armor its scary. The damocles gulf crusade, a very tiny one by all Imperial standards, nearly carved its way into the Empire's heart. the Tau were saved from a much larger crusade by Abbaddon's timely Black Crusade which pulled support from the Tau's annhilation campaign.

Their whole 'greater good' thing is annoying. They claim to be all for unifying everyone in a perfect society. down that thrice dammned path lies Socialism which leads to Communisim which doesn't work.

the Tau were also unheard of in the fluff before release. they were invented by GW to capitalize on the Anime craze and the opening of the first GW in Japan.

+1 to this.

+1+1 I think most people can agree on that.

Eldar , i cant stand Eldar and all their over powered units, they are the only army I cant find some way to beat.

coolyo294 wrote:Space Wolves. I f****** hate everything about them.

This.

Their fluff is confused and atrocious. They don't know whether or not they want to be a serious "GRIMDARK" army of space vikings, werewolves, lighthearted space tricksters, the Emperor's Executioners, or rough customers with a heart of gold, and they come off just...awful.

Their army list is just as awful. Incredibly capable and flexible troops that are at least as good, if not markedly flat out better, than their equivalents, but have a hefty price cut, especially factoring in discounts the sergeant equivalents get. Despite being an army with a deep anti-psyker background they have amongst the most fearsome and capable offensive psykers in the game also wielding some of the best psychic defense in the game at costs much less than many others. Additionally, while touted as a close range viking berzerker army, they have the best heavy weapons unit in the game with the cheapest heavy weapons per point spent that are able to be utilized far more effectively than other heavy weapons units and have more heavy weapons than just about any other HW unit in the game aside from Lootas.

They're an army that does everything well, too well, even those things they really shouldn't. I haven't seen an SW army that wasn't sporting at least 2 (usually 3) 5x ML Long Fang units in years, likewise Rune Priests, and the vast majority I see play more like IG gunlines with damn near a dozen razorbacks backed up by three heavy weapons squads.


The fluff feels like bad internet fan-fic/parody (firing artillery by smell...? really?), and the army feels like it was designed simply to be a cash cow, it's Space Marines, but more capable, and huge across the board cost cuts. They can do just about every army build the other books can, and better in many cases.




Blood Angels likewise aren't often fun games. I've yet to ever see a fully painted BA force, much less a well painted full BA force. For an army that typically is seen as a fast jump pack assault army with some berzerkers, they sure do have far more access to slow combat walkers and multitiudes of heavy battle tanks than any other SM army in the game, fielding as more *heavy* armor than the overwhelmingly vast majority of even Imperial Guard armies out there. Why it was thought the Baal belonged in FA is beyond me.


GK's are a bit silly as well, primarily the 'lol 5pt auto upgrades'. The Psychic Pilot that comes on every vehicle that makes them practically immune to shaken/stun results for 5pts is...woefully undercosted, and the cost of Psybolts on tanks was very obviously not thought about at all or very intentionally undercosted to sell more kits (lol 5pts to make two BS4 or BS5 TL'd autocannons S8...who isn't taking that every time, freeing up other points to do so if they must?). Also the ability to field *super* cheap troops in chimeras with tons of special weapons at a cost to make even IG Vets blush in an army of ultra-killy dudes was a bit silly.


Vulkan marines used to be my main gripe, but since the SW/BA books I haven't seen them much anymore, but man, I literally went 12 months without seeing a single non-Vulkan C:SM army, and it's not hard to see why.


I just noticed these all happen to also be marine books...even though I own a huge number of Space Marines of various sorts

Grey Templar wrote:
Their whole 'greater good' thing is annoying. They claim to be all for unifying everyone in a perfect society. down that thrice dammned path lies Socialism which leads to Communisim which doesn't work.

It's probably best not to project real world subjective political views/values onto 40k, especially in regards to alien races/cultures/societies that work completely different from modern 21st century human ones, it'll likely only lead to assumptions and reactions to things that just aren't what one thinks they are (in addition to the impression such political expressions leave on other players/forum posters). In case one hasn't noticed, the only faction in 40k with anything resembling a functional market system is...the Orks. It's also not like most people who play this game have a firm grasp of any of these economic concepts/systems either.

Black Templars, just the look of them damn! I want to rip their skin off!

Fluffwise - The Grater Good. No old race is following that kind of tough anymore because galaxy doesn't work like that. It's just an idea influenced into young follish race that covers much bolder plan - conquest of galaxy and all of it's races under Etherial domain.

Tabletopwise - Grey Knights. Earlier they were awesome as part of Daemonhunters army. Now they are just overpowered to the level of Supermen.

I don't really hate any armies to tell the truth. Sure am bored of fighting Space Marines though, seems they're all either heretical (when I'm using Witch Hunters) or in the way of some Eldar plot (when I'm using Eldar).

Armies I find a touch annoying are Tyranids and Orks but that's mostly due to the fact that I have trouble fighting them at times (most likely because I face horde armies so rarely). The annoyance is usually countered by the much welcomed challenge of fighting the odd horde army. More so if they happen to be painted as all horde armies look great painted, even at the lower end of table top quality.

Can't stand Space Marines in all forms -.- especially the infamous Grey Marines.

Models? Can't stand them, boring things designed to appeal to 12 year olds.

Fluff? Generally can't stand it. Some isn't too bad, but mostly see above.

Gameplay? See first comment.

Orks. All they do is charge at you and there are not as many strategies playing against them other than side shots on battlewagons and stop them.

Nob bikers? Strength 8 firepower murders them dead pretty fast. Green tide? Templates. Anything else? Free win.

I encounter them a lot and I wish there was more to that army. Sure, marines suck because so many people have them, but at least it requires some brainpower to beat them.

I wish orks are challenging to play against.

Sure there are some armies which are in a worse shape than orks, but I never encounter them.

coolyo294 wrote:Space Wolves. I f****** hate everything about them.

WIN
no one ever agrees with me about hating the space muts

Ultrasmurfs, BA and SW.

All a load of overheated nonsense. Ultrasmurfs, I mean come on. 'nuff said.

BA: we be angry space vampires, and can make any vehicle fast. We also have Mephiston (I like the model, but still...)

SW: My biggest rival plays them. Since I met him, all the SM helmets on my Eldar bases are SW. Other than that, the fluff is messy. Agreeing with all comments above.

Lord Rogukiel wrote:


BA: we be angry space vampires, and can make any vehicle fast. We also have Mephiston (I like the model, but still...)

Except the bumms cannot figure out how to make a land raider fast

I dislike any Space Marines. I won't say *hate*... I don't dislike them that much, but I definitely wouldn't collect them (don't like the models) and their fluff doesn't interest me.

I much prefer Xenos

tabletop wise i hate playing against a clever tau player "shoot, jump, shoot, jump etc"

fluff wise the space wolves are stupid, the tau are shoe horned and the nids are the most threatening thing in he galaxy
unless something else is happening

DE. Some of their stuff is unfair on my opinion. Please don't reply back saying "Oh how!" and "They most certainly are not!"

Space Wolves. I can't stand them anymore. Stupid broken codex, stupid infantile fluff.

Grey Templar wrote:Their whole 'greater good' thing is annoying. They claim to be all for unifying everyone in a perfect society. down that thrice dammned path lies Socialism which leads to Communisim which doesn't work.

Ridicolous statement IMO for several reasons.
1: Socialism =/ communism. Most western European states can be classified as socialistic countries. Free healthcare, free education, large state controlled sectors, goals of small income disparity etc. Many of these countries have better living-conditions than the US, and none of them have ever been a communist state, and I really don't believe they are on the path to communism either.
2: Imperium of man is a facist, racist and hopelessly bureaucratic empire. That doesn't work too well in reality either now, does it? It can still be kind of cool in sci-fi fluff. (although the bureaucratic part is often taken a bit too far IMO - 100+ year reaction time on invasions etc)
3: The greater good is obviously a sham, and that makes it kinda cool IMO. F.ex: In DoW, you find evidence of mass sterilization of human populations. The Tau society is also a caste society, hardly the perfect society for everyone involved. (great for those in the "valuable" castes). Besides, while communism was a horrible failure IRL, it still makes for a cool background to base a fictional ideology on.
4: The greater good opens up possibilities for idealism and for grimdark. Lots of Tau probably believe in the idea, while others know that it is all BS, opens up for being both "the good guy" and "the baddies"


For my least favorite faction: Space wolves. Agreed with what has been said, cool idea, poor execution both on the codex and on the fluff.
No-brainers are bad, mkay?

the GKs liked them before the new codex

I also really don't like Space Wolves, but I think Chaos takes the prize for me.

Ya it's probably odd to be tired of/bored with/hate, what is supposed to be one of the main 'bad guys' in the 40k universe, but I think they make for some pretty pathetic villians. Hey, good for you, you're angry Marines, and like skulls and spikes... and thats about it. The Heresy was interesting, but in 40k, Chaos is flat, boring, one-dimensional (lol) and undeserving of their role as the bad boys.

Finally someone says Chaos. I have to agree. SW and BA are up there but not to the point where I would never buy one of their models. Never will I buy anything chaos. My opinion.

Ahack13 wrote:Eldar , i cant stand Eldar and all their over powered units, they are the only army I cant find some way to beat.

And I totally agree with Illumini. Many people totally don't understand differences between systems. Plot armour is not cool but many aspects of Tau are cool. That doesn't mean I deny you the right to hate Tau anyway

For me it would be Blood Angels I guess. If I really have to. Just pain in the ass with all the speed and FNP.

I would have to say I hate the Space Wolves the most, with the Blood Angels in close second.

Creeping Dementia wrote:I also really don't like Space Wolves, but I think Chaos takes the prize for me.

Ya it's probably odd to be tired of/bored with/hate, what is supposed to be one of the main 'bad guys' in the 40k universe, but I think they make for some pretty pathetic villians. Hey, good for you, you're angry Marines, and like skulls and spikes... and thats about it. The Heresy was interesting, but in 40k, Chaos is flat, boring, one-dimensional (lol) and undeserving of their role as the bad boys.

Really? I find Chaos to be amongst the most interesting in 40k, as long as you're not looking at the current codex fluff. You've got the various cult Legions, insane and damned to madness and wilfull slavery as an extension of the will of the dark gods, and then you've got the other traitor Legions, the bitter traitors who believe it was *they* who were betrayed, who fight out of hate and spite because they have nothing else, believing their entire existence and their role in creating the Imperium to have been built on a lie to satisfy the ego of a false god, harnessing forbidden powers to gain an advantage in the long war knowing they are damned and caring not.

Illumini wrote:

Grey Templar wrote:Their whole 'greater good' thing is annoying. They claim to be all for unifying everyone in a perfect society. down that thrice dammned path lies Socialism which leads to Communisim which doesn't work.

Ridicolous statement IMO for several reasons.
1: Socialism =/ communism. Most western European states can be classified as socialistic countries. Free healthcare, free education, large state controlled sectors, goals of small income disparity etc. Many of these countries have better living-conditions than the US, and none of them have ever been a communist state, and I really don't believe they are on the path to communism either.
2: Imperium of man is a facist, racist and hopelessly bureaucratic empire. That doesn't work too well in reality either now, does it? It can still be kind of cool in sci-fi fluff. (although the bureaucratic part is often taken a bit too far IMO - 100+ year reaction time on invasions etc)
3: The greater good is obviously a sham, and that makes it kinda cool IMO. F.ex: In DoW, you find evidence of mass sterilization of human populations. The Tau society is also a caste society, hardly the perfect society for everyone involved. (great for those in the "valuable" castes). Besides, while communism was a horrible failure IRL, it still makes for a cool background to base a fictional ideology on.
4: The greater good opens up possibilities for idealism and for grimdark. Lots of Tau probably believe in the idea, while others know that it is all BS, opens up for being both "the good guy" and "the baddies"

I was being a little OTT, but it isn't as rediclous as you claim.

Marx had Socilisim as the path to Communisim. while it is not a bad idea in concept, it is horrible in practice(as shown by Russia and many asian countries) because it ignores the fact that man is naturally evil(and for Socilisim on the way to Communisim to work it requires the leaders to be angelic in their nature)

Yeah, european countries have better living conditions now, but i can't expect that to last. they have high unemployment rates and several countries have collapsed economically. and due to having a common currancy they will all feel the repercussions if one of the economies has problems(like Greece is)

I just wish GW would have a little more of the Grimdarkness come through. more evidence of mass sterilizations, more planet sized death camps, more race inequality. only DoW has shown this darker side and the DoW games arn't always held to be cannon(i hold them to be. the fluff endings anyway)

Grey Templar wrote:

I was being a little OTT, but it isn't as rediclous as you claim.

Marx had Socilisim as the path to Communisim. while it is not a bad idea in concept, it is horrible in practice(as shown by Russia and many asian countries) because it ignores the fact that man is naturally evil(and for Socilisim on the way to Communisim to work it requires the leaders to be angelic in their nature)

Yeah, european countries have better living conditions now, but i can't expect that to last. they have high unemployment rates and several countries have collapsed economically. and due to having a common currancy they will all feel the repercussions if one of the economies has problems(like Greece is)

I just wish GW would have a little more of the Grimdarkness come through. more evidence of mass sterilizations, more planet sized death camps, more race inequality. only DoW has shown this darker side and the DoW games arn't always held to be cannon(i hold them to be. the fluff endings anyway)

Maybe next codex. I would actually like to see some new better done evil elements. Not just falling back on sterilization. It dosen't make sense to me.

ivangterrace wrote:Except the bumms cannot figure out how to make a land raider fast

They don't need to be fast. They can Deep Strike!

space wolves and blood angels.. both mostly played by waac players. I usually don't enjoy playing them, to overpowered, I can win but i feel like I'm playing hide and seek the whole time. its not fun to get counter charged 30 boys into 10 wolves and lose 20, then get wiped without really hurting em at all. or with angels furioso dreed hits somethign a nob and 30 boys... chews through everything in one turn all 30 and nob wiped

Monster Rain wrote:

ivangterrace wrote:Except the bumms cannot figure out how to make a land raider fast

They don't need to be fast. They can Deep Strike!

Indeed, Boreal would be proud

but seriously, its a horrible idea. Landraiders have so many ways to mishap it isn't viable.

From a gameplay perspective, Space Wolves. They're just Marines...but better.
From fluff perspective, Space Wolves. Everything in their codex is Wolf McWolWolf. It's just ridiculous.

I know it's not a very unique POV but seriously...I don't like them.

Also, people complaining about Tau plot armour are forgetting that it's 999M41, and they're in the process of being nom'd. The timeline is frozen on the verge of the Nids killing them. And Grey Templar, you said they have plot armour, then immediately said that a small Imperial crusade smashed through them. That doesn't really support that statement.
And if they're so insignificant in the fluff, you should see the number of Dark Angel in the galaxy. Tau were added because they were a unique aesthetic, unique gameplay and provide a refreshing take on 40k. Not because they were a major player.

Could people just update their sig's with their hate armies instead of having this post reappear every couple of weeks?


Oh, and for the record, I don't hate any army. But I really, really, really, really, dislike Imperial Guard.

As a Dark Elf player in Warhammer Fantasy, I Hate every army. It's in my rules.

As a Dark Elf player in Warhammer Fantasy, I Hate every army. It's in my rules.

Well played

TrollPie wrote:Also, people complaining about Tau plot armour are forgetting that it's 999M41, and they're in the process of being nom'd. The timeline is frozen on the verge of the Nids killing them. And Grey Templar, you said they have plot armour, then immediately said that a small Imperial crusade smashed through them. That doesn't really support that statement.

It supports it.

the Crusade was kicking their buts and only started to slow down when it reached a Sept world, which they were literally inches away from dropping Virus bombs on, but then there was a convienient Black Crusade and Nid incursion which caused the Crusade to get pulled and redeployed elsewhere to combat the larger threat.

coolyo294 wrote:Space Wolves. I f****** hate everything about them.

This. We're talking fluff, right?

Rules-wise, it's a hard call. Tyranids not because I hate them, but I just hate what has been done to the poor things. Or probably Space Wolves again, for having so many ludicrously undercosted options.

Space Wolves because of how silly the army is top to bottom in both fluff and rules etc.

I don't hate Tyranids as a former nid player but I do share pity for them. Cruddace and GW should be ashamed of that codex.

Grey Templar wrote:

TrollPie wrote:Also, people complaining about Tau plot armour are forgetting that it's 999M41, and they're in the process of being nom'd. The timeline is frozen on the verge of the Nids killing them. And Grey Templar, you said they have plot armour, then immediately said that a small Imperial crusade smashed through them. That doesn't really support that statement.

It supports it.

the Crusade was kicking their buts and only started to slow down when it reached a Sept world, which they were literally inches away from dropping Virus bombs on, but then there was a convienient Black Crusade and Nid incursion which caused the Crusade to get pulled and redeployed elsewhere to combat the larger threat.

To be fair, on the first major world they invaded they ground to a halt and were in a stalemate. They weren't really "kicking their butts", considering every world they had taken was a tiny colony or outpost.

Crap! Talk of Tau! Must...stop...threadlock... failing...caving in...discussing...nooo...


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Besides, at least half off all battles in 40k end with some convenient deus ex machina.

yeah, but the Tau had committed major military effort to stopping the Crusade which was, by comparison, a tiny little force meant to crush an alien faction assumed to consist of less then a dozen worlds.

the fact the crusade literally went in blind with no information about the enemy speaks volumes about the tinyness of the Tau.

There's still far smaller forces with codices, for example DA, BA etc...but let's not go in to that now.

BA, they get everything

Game Play - Space Wolves
Fluff - Tau
Models - Witch Hunters

i like tau i think that they make a nice addition and add a bit of depth, i like the fact that it is another race of humanoid intelegant life

yeah, they definitly fill a niche as far as game play mechanics and army composition.

its just that their fluff was utterly shoehorned into the universe that I hate. Tau were actually my 2nd army(and the first one i won a game with)

I hate Tyranids because they draw you in with the excellent fluff and fluffy units from the 4th Edition Codex just to destroy you with the new 5th Edition Codex.

I hate Space Wolves for terrible fluff (opinion) and some extremely overpowered units (fact).

black templar. they're a PITA.

followed by the tau. they are completely annoying. the models look SO cool!..... then you read the codex and are reminded how much they suck.

Necrons; because they deserve a new codex

Fluff-wise its nids and crons. they're a cool idea for a races, but when i read it they seem like they would be unstoppable and destroy everything.

Regarding the suposed socialism in europe stuff... /o\ the stupid, it burns :(
Regarding the op's question i have to chose Spacewolves. They have the potential to be realy cool but the current codex and HH fluff reads like some particularly inane teenage wish fulfillment.

Eldar.

I used to love them and played them a bit back in 2nd edition. But now the whole notion of "you have to REALLY know your army and take advantage of all the different facets to succeed" means a lot of Eldar players use that as the go-ahead to be smug idiots when they win a game.

That and Blood Angels, because they are insanely bland to me.

bosky wrote:Eldar.

I used to love them and played them a bit back in 2nd edition. But now the whole notion of "you have to REALLY know your army and take advantage of all the different facets to succeed" means a lot of Eldar players use that as the go-ahead to be smug idiots when they win a game.

That and Blood Angels, because they are insanely bland to me.

Well Eldar are supposed to be arrogant jerks, so you might call that roleplaying

Polvilhovoador wrote:Well Eldar are supposed to be arrogant jerks, so you might call that roleplaying

Haha that must be it

i hate SW there fluff involves hairy men slapping each other on the back and drinking mead, yawn
there dex is disgusting

BAs suck daddies dead bawling emo's

crons = zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
tau = no words
eldar = cheddar
dark eldar = just for fluff bum sex and drugs aint my bag

Okay, so with 60 unique voters, some nominating two or even three factions, these are the rankings as follows:

Space Wolves = 23 (the champion with more votes than the next three armies combined )

Blood Angels = 9
Tau = 8
Grey Knights = 5
Dark Eldar = 4
Necrons = 4
Tyranids = 3
Orks = 3
Ultramarines = 3
All forms of Astartes = 3
Imperial Guard = 2
Chaos = 2
Eldar = 2
Black Templar = 2
Everybody = 2
Witch Hunters = 1
Black Legion = 1

coolyo294 wrote:Space Wolves. I f****** hate everything about them.

+1

This.

I can't stand Necrons, never fought them, probably never will, but what gets me the most is I like the idea of them. I can imagine a machine race, like the Borg or maybe the Terminators and that seems cool, but then I look at the models with thier giant green traffic cones or whatever they're supposed to be and its just frustrating.

Grey Templar wrote:
I was being a little OTT, but it isn't as rediclous as you claim.

Marx had Socilisim as the path to Communisim. while it is not a bad idea in concept, it is horrible in practice(as shown by Russia and many asian countries) because it ignores the fact that man is naturally evil(and for Socilisim on the way to Communisim to work it requires the leaders to be angelic in their nature)

Yeah, european countries have better living conditions now, but i can't expect that to last. they have high unemployment rates and several countries have collapsed economically. and due to having a common currancy they will all feel the repercussions if one of the economies has problems(like Greece is)

I just wish GW would have a little more of the Grimdarkness come through. more evidence of mass sterilizations, more planet sized death camps, more race inequality. only DoW has shown this darker side and the DoW games arn't always held to be cannon(i hold them to be. the fluff endings anyway)

While it is slightly off-topic, I must answer quickly

1: Marx also thought that communism would work, so he was wrong there too. History has socialism working just fine this far, and it has not lead to communism. Russia and China were both totalitarian monarchies before revolutions/civil wars, most of former Soviet Eastern Europe was also totalitarian countries before being forced into communism.
Pure(ish) capitalism (US kind of capitalism, remember that most socialist states are generally quite capitalistic too) has gotten slightly tarnished lately, it (or at least people taking advantage of a capitalistic system) was the source of the last recession, and was also the source of the bankrupcy in Iceland and Dubai. Socialism doesn't need to account for any "evil" in men, everybody are forced to pay taxes to support civil services for the population, rich people pay more, poor people pay less, most people end up in the middle and everybody get's access to health, security and education.
2: Greece, Spain and Portugal are generally classified as southern European countries, not western European, and they have had economic issues for years. I don't know enough about them to say why. Western Europe however seems to be doing fine. In Scandinavia, probably the most socialist region of Europe, (and still very US-friendly, Norway/Denmark is in Afganistan and Libya and we buy your jets out of pure love & affection ) the last financial crisis was hardly noticed. Unemployment is 3.6% in Norway, (goal is about 3-4%) and financial guru's say that as long as the EU or US doesn't suffer another huge financial crisis, we won't really notice the troubles in Greece etc.
3: On topic again Totally agree, Tau needs more grimdark, I would like to see it only being hinted to though, leaving a bit of mystery and leaving the players with a choice between good (naive) and evil With the direction GW seems to be heading, I doubt we will see it though

Space Wolves = 23 (the champion with more votes than the next three armies combined )

Haha, thanks for the ranking, no surprise on first place

Eldar, mainly due to the player though.

I guess I hate them through association, as I've never played another Eldar player (not because I've refused, just I don't know any!).

I've yet to play against Blood Angels, Space Wolves and Imperial Guard, so it's quite possible my "hated" army may change.

I love me my space vikings. My Angry Marines are my fave, but the SW were my first army, adn you don't forget that.

Hate threads come up way to often. I'll say... I LOVE ALL ARMIES! LET'S ALL BE GRIMDARK FRIENDS, BECAUSE LOVE CAN BLOOM!


If I have to choose one I dislike playing it's the Tau. Why?

-Japan hate from the womens world cup... though they deserved to win.

-Best friend who plays 40k plays them (THough his other army is orks, so it's OK.)

-Annoying as hell to play, Getting shot by everything and then jump shoot jump sucks. Especially going into an assault.

-Ends up castleing, kinda dumb.

-Boring game- can you get to them before they die?

-Models are butt ugly.

-Greater good fluff annoys me, same with the 'good guys' theme... kinda grates, but a nice contrast.

-WEABOOS. NEAD I SAY MORE?

Mech IG, GK Spam, and Razorback Spam annoy me. But I live with them, cause the players are cool. Except for fanatical SM players, usually of Smurfs or Grey and Shiny army of doom SM. Hey... that group annoys me on dakka too!

Wow... long rant.

Space wolfs......broken.

But hilarious fun if you play them right (IE don't use units in spam... except GH, as blood claws suck.)

Blood Angels or Grey Knights.

It just started out with Space Wolves and Grey Knights, but now I can't stand pretty much every stripe and colour of SM.

Except the ones of the Chaotic persuasion.

Asgeirr Darkwolf wrote:But hilarious fun if you play them right (IE don't use units in spam... except GH, as blood claws suck.)

Claws aren't bad, per se, especially if you stuck a bunch of them in a land raider with a wolf priest and go to town on someone's face.

It's just why take them when you have GH for the same cost.

Eldar. Arrogance is probably the one thing I hate more than anything else in this world, and nothing (except maybe certain Chaos Marines) embodies it more than them. Add that to the fact that they STILL think they know best after creating a Chaos God and the Eye of Terror, and you've got a race that just plain grates on me.

The enemies of the Imperium are my least favorite armies.

Goddard wrote:The enemies of the Imperium are my least favorite armies.

Way to go brother...

I don't like playing anything that is not my current army FOR **** sake their the enemy, no choosing who you like and dislike....WAAAGH the ole' lot of em'...Till I get a new army. Then possibly Lasgun spam the hole lot of them...or even....Shurikan cata them


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Like when I play agianst someone (Even friendly games)(The opponent could be the nicest and coolest guy in the world) but for his army....I get in the state where I look at my opponents army and just HATE it. Their rules, looks, EVERYTHING. Even if it is another ORK opponent!

You sound more like ANGRY MARINE than Ork...

Join us, brother!

Anyways, I just saw what I don't like- Spess Mehreen Fanaticism. You guys take yourselves too seriously! Krump somthin'- it's good fer you!

I'm another hater of both smurfs and space wolves fluff wise.

Game wise, I hate nids in a respectable way, they have always kicked my Necrons in the @$$.

Space Wolves - Ever since the HH fluff that hinted that they were the Emperor's executioners, it's just been painful. Every chapter might wish they were Ultramarines, but secretly, the Ultramarines know that they weren't good enough to be the Emperor's final sanction. There's also the fact that their codex uses the word 'wolf' as noun, verb, adverb, adjective, and punctionation. And don't get me started on the use of 'apex predator' or something similar as either a simile or metaphor (Battle of the Fang, I'm looking at you).

Special mention to the Blood Angels for a similar problem. We get it guys, you're into blood.

Twilight Marines (aka Blood Angels)... I don't much care for Sisters of Battle either.

oni wrote:Twilight Marines (aka Blood Angels)... I don't much care for Sisters of Battle either.

Completely uncalled for Never have the BA sparkled.

They should...

My rankings are as follows:
Worst: Space Wolves (For reasons reiterated on here a dozen times)
Orks (I play Tau, so I may be somewhat biased here)
IG
Vanilla SM
Tau (Rules wise, at least. Only 3 viable lists != balanced codex)
Nids (See Tau reasoning)

Those armor nipples sparkle plenty.

*Breaking out the beads formerly designated as rivets*

Imperial Guard have always pissed me off. Mainly because our local IG player is an a**hole. Worst rule lawyer I've ever played with (but only when it suits him) and he's cocky because he always wins because nobody wants to argue with him. Throw in a really powerful codex and the fact that he spends all his time looking for powerful unit combos and you have a reason to hate IG.

Eldar. They are just so whinny. Plus, they are supposed to be all about "grace" and "beauty" in like everything, yet I hate the look of basically the entire range. The only exception would be harlequins, and even then its probably just their 'eavy metal paint jobs.

Easily chaos space marines. i think they're extremely tacky and over rated and f***ing everyone plays them, i also don't like necrons to much, fluff wise they're kinda cool, but i've never seen them painted any other color than boltgun metal.

I have my complaints about every single army but I also like all of them for their own reasons- I'd probably say my least liked is DE because they're a bad mix of Eldar and Chaos, They can't decide whether they want to be dark-elves or vampires, Their troops are kinda bland appearance wise "ooo look the archon is wearing the enemies face" , and I'm not a fan of their tactics.


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King Crow wrote:Easily chaos space marines. i think they're extremely tacky and over rated and f***ing everyone plays them, i also don't like necrons to much, fluff wise they're kinda cool, but i've never seen them painted any other color than boltgun metal.

I'd like to provide a save for the crons here- Some people do rust colorations and I'm not sure but I think different tombworlds have different army colors.

coolyo294 wrote:Space Wolves. I f****** hate everything about them.

These ones and Grey Knights -.-

I love Space Wolves for the same reason everyone seems to hate them. Woo!

Anyway, I don't like Eldar going along identical lines of:

SpessMehrenD3R9 wrote:Eldar. Arrogance is probably the one thing I hate more than anything else in this world, and nothing (except maybe certain Chaos Marines) embodies it more than them. Add that to the fact that they STILL think they know best after creating a Chaos God and the Eye of Terror, and you've got a race that just plain grates on me.

Wolfun wrote:I love Space Wolves for the same reason everyone seems to hate them. Woo!

What, the broken rules and the fluff that makes them out to be the biggest jackasses since the Word Bearers?

IronChaos wrote:

coolyo294 wrote:Space Wolves. I f****** hate everything about them.

These ones and Grey Knights -.-

I could see why a Chaos player would hate on the grey knights. \

Model wise? I hate IG (all infantry), Tau (crisis suits/fire warrior shoulder pads only), Grey Knights (Dreadknight only) and Space Wolves

Fluff-wise? I'm pretty OK with everyone's fluff. It's mostly just model aesthetics that I hate. Wild hair really doesn't belong with power armor (IMO) but I love Norse mythology, so the fluffy characters are cool to me (like Thor and Loki and Fenrisian stuff). I love the concept behind IG, I just hate the models. Maybe I'll make an IG army some day with no GW models (or death corps of Krieg-those models are actually great.)

i hate the spandex armor wearing space ninjas of the galaxy AKA THE ELDAR

Tau and Imperial guard. Those damn things just sit there and obliterate my army with godawful firepower and tricks (also because everybody runs the same list with them. Tau have lots of suits and hammerheads and Ig have loads of infranty and basilisk or manticores)

Tau and Eldar. At least fluff wise.

zagopa wrote:i hate the spandex armor wearing space ninjas of the galaxy AKA THE ELDAR

you mean the hot gun toteing space elf women.... right..... hate it when chicks wear spandex... and shoot guns

Rimmy wrote:

zagopa wrote:i hate the spandex armor wearing space ninjas of the galaxy AKA THE ELDAR

you mean the hot gun toteing space elf women.... right..... hate it when chicks wear spandex... and shoot guns

I only hate it when they shoot those guns at me.

Chaos Space marines and in a way Space marines. Its not that I hate them its just I hate how every third person plays either CSM or SM and i'm not an exception cause I play Space marines.

Commisar Wolfie wrote:

Rimmy wrote:

zagopa wrote:i hate the spandex armor wearing space ninjas of the galaxy AKA THE ELDAR

you mean the hot gun toteing space elf women.... right..... hate it when chicks wear spandex... and shoot guns

I only hate it when they shoot those guns at me.

I agree with that.

Wolfun wrote:I love Space Wolves for the same reason everyone seems to hate them. Woo!

Anyway, I don't like Eldar going along identical lines of:

SpessMehrenD3R9 wrote:Eldar. Arrogance is probably the one thing I hate more than anything else in this world, and nothing (except maybe certain Chaos Marines) embodies it more than them. Add that to the fact that they STILL think they know best after creating a Chaos God and the Eye of Terror, and you've got a race that just plain grates on me.

I don't see why everyone is annoyed at Eldar arrogance. Fluff wise, I understand you can hate it, but from Eldar players? I for one have always made sure to not boast about a victory or seem arrogant about it. All the Eldar players I know do the same as far as I know.

I don't see why everyone hates the Space Wolves- Well, I do, but they're obviously not the SW players. Personally, I like the 1d4chan fluff for them and Angry Marines- THat's the funny fluff, and the stuffI go by. Even if it's fan made, it's not Matt Ward.


Blood Angels Team up wiht Necrons to pimp slap Tyranids? WTF! NO! NO! NO! STFU MATT! THEY DONT GO ALONG HAPPILLY EVER AFTER EITHER!

Lynata wrote:Space Wolves. Whilst the general concept (a viking Chapter!) is rather cool, they just overdone it with all those special snowflake exceptions:
- they gak on the Codex Astartes and generally behave like a gang of bikers (in short, there's no narrative balance to their superhuman traits)
- rampant mutation, no backlash
- killing off loyal Imperials left and right, no backlash
- The Fang apparently being harder to take than the Imperial Palace on Terra, even when seriously undermanned
- SW can take on the entire Segmentum Pacificus Navy, despite all sources saying SM fleets aren't supposed to be able to challenge the Navy even in a one-on-one
- ... but I guess that's because they have a fleet of Battle Barges

... and the list goes on. Also, their names seem to get worse as every edition adds a further layer of "wolf" or "wolfson" to something.

Sad. At the core, the idea is very cool. But the execution and overhype ruined it. My suspension of disbelief has limits.

My feelings exactly. Plus, the fact that the rules don't align with the fluff... in the background, they're a martial chapter, bold combatants itching for the chance to get into hand to hand. On the tabletop, they're a mech. infantry force, supported by an abundance of missile launchers and psykers, and rarely if ever charge headlong into combat.

Oh, there's backlash, they're just tough enough to shake it off.

Asgeirr Darkwolf wrote:Oh, there's backlash, they're just tough enough to shake it off.

That's sort the issue. They're so mary sue that they can't possibly ever seem to be beaten/make real mistakes/cross the line/etc. They're little snowflakes that are of course the exception to everything and can do no wrong, or if something does backlash at them, they're always able to "shake it off" without any real issue. And for an army of angry berzerker space vikings, well...that just doesn't jive.

Somehow the Fang outmatches all sorts of other fortresses supposedly built and defended by much more capable siege troops, (and apparently now...only "idiots" call it "The Fang" according to Prospero Burns), notwithstanding the question of why an army of space vikings has such a fortress instead of something that better matches the archetype (temporary raid bases, etc). Then of course they dislike psykers but have some of the most capable psykers in the fluff and probably the best in the game. They're Space Marines...but better, fightier, more savage, but no less capable in ranged warfare. For Space Vikings, much of their fluff goes on about their extensive intelligence activites...but how on earth is an army of super soldier space vikings able to keep up such an extensive intelligence network? It's not exactly like they can spy well at 8ft tall and it's not like Fenris breeds spies well. For a chapter with limited fleet assets they somehow are more than a match for the far larger Imperial Navy with ship far better suited for ship to ship warfare, etc ad nauseum.

They do everything better than everyone else and never **** up. Of course they come out looking silly after that.

No mistakes? Miss that whole thousand sons thing?

I just like the viking theme. The werewolf is OK. But, since I use mine as ANGRY MARINES, well...

Asgeirr Darkwolf wrote:No mistakes? Miss that whole thousand sons thing?

which particular aspect?

I just like the viking theme. The werewolf is OK. But, since I use mine as ANGRY MARINES, well...

The problem is, they don't even really act all that much like vikings if you're familiar at all with them, they just take a handful of Norse words and slap it on and call it Viking.

Asgeirr Darkwolf wrote:

Blood Angels Team up wiht Necrons to pimp slap Tyranids? WTF! NO! NO! NO! STFU MATT! THEY DONT GO ALONG HAPPILLY EVER AFTER EITHER!

You can't blame the Angels for this blame Mat Ward. Story made me when I read it. By my book never happened

BA I hate them so much. Oh we are space marines with feel no pain and all fast vehicles plus we take land raiders as dedicated transports. Hate them so much.

It's not just one army, but anything with hordes. I despise the reality that masses of weaklings can bring down elite soldiers both on the table and in reality.

They do everything better than everyone else and never **** up. Of course they come out looking silly after that.

I feel like all SM are like this to an extent. SW just more so and then there's the Grey Knights you take this up to 11.

asimo77 wrote:

They do everything better than everyone else and never **** up. Of course they come out looking silly after that.

I feel like all SM are like this to an extent. SW just more so and then there's the Grey Knights you take this up to 11.

At least with grey knights they have an excuse to be superior to other SM's, rather than "we're nonconformist" like SW's.

Vaktathi wrote:

asimo77 wrote:

They do everything better than everyone else and never **** up. Of course they come out looking silly after that.

I feel like all SM are like this to an extent. SW just more so and then there's the Grey Knights you take this up to 11.

At least with grey knights they have an excuse to be superior to other SM's, rather than "we're nonconformist" like SW's.

Oh my god. I just realized something. Space Wolves are hipsters.

"We don't use pyskers, but rather priests who summon the innate power of Fenris. You probably haven't heard of it."

"Yeah, we don't use the Codex Astartes. We even have a 13th Company. You probably haven't heard of it."

"Our geneseed gives us extralong K-9 teeth and more body hair and turns some of us into Wolfren. You probably haven't heard of them."

snake wrote:It's not just one army, but anything with hordes. I despise the reality that masses of weaklings can bring down elite soldiers both on the table and in reality.

The game wouldn't be very fair if a basic warfare tenet such as "Overwhelming numerical superiority" was not taken into account.

Also not sure why you have such a problem with reality.



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Grey Templar wrote:I hate Tau ... The Tau were also unheard of in the fluff before release. they were invented by GW to capitalize on the Anime craze and the opening of the first GW in Japan.

1. To be fair, GW invents everything regarding Warhammer

2. I hate to be the one to bring this up, but GW is a business. They make decisions which are good for their business. To do otherwise would be profoundly illogical. You seem to be taking offense to something that international businesses do ALL the time. For example (if I may borrow your phrasing)

"I hate Toyota Tacomas ... The Tacoma was unheard of in the old business plan before release. They were invented by Toyota to capitalize on the truck craze and the opening of the first Toyota dealerships in America."

See how that makes good business sense?

LoneLictor wrote:

Vaktathi wrote:

asimo77 wrote:

They do everything better than everyone else and never **** up. Of course they come out looking silly after that.

I feel like all SM are like this to an extent. SW just more so and then there's the Grey Knights you take this up to 11.

At least with grey knights they have an excuse to be superior to other SM's, rather than "we're nonconformist" like SW's.

Oh my god. I just realized something. Space Wolves are hipsters.

"We don't use pyskers, but rather priests who summon the innate power of Fenris. You probably haven't heard of it."

"Yeah, we don't use the Codex Astartes. We even have a 13th Company. You probably haven't heard of it."

"Our geneseed gives us extralong K-9 teeth and more body hair and turns some of us into Wolfren. You probably haven't heard of them."

Hahahaha I lol'd IRL. So true, it nails down the SW's so well.

LoneLictor wrote:

Vaktathi wrote:

asimo77 wrote:

They do everything better than everyone else and never **** up. Of course they come out looking silly after that.

I feel like all SM are like this to an extent. SW just more so and then there's the Grey Knights you take this up to 11.

At least with grey knights they have an excuse to be superior to other SM's, rather than "we're nonconformist" like SW's.

Oh my god. I just realized something. Space Wolves are hipsters.

"We don't use pyskers, but rather priests who summon the innate power of Fenris. You probably haven't heard of it."

"Yeah, we don't use the Codex Astartes. We even have a 13th Company. You probably haven't heard of it."

"Our geneseed gives us extralong K-9 teeth and more body hair and turns some of us into Wolfren. You probably haven't heard of them."

+1. Well written.

I think I was blaming Matt Ward.... Read that BA part again.

SW made the mistake of being told by Horus to Kill the 1Ksons, not bring them back like the emprah says. So... sounds a little viking ish. SO do their massive parties, their Homeworld and its natives, and their superstition. But yeah, the names are taken- just like all the other chapters! I mean, Look at them! Every chapter has some sort of a theme, however well pronounced it might be!

Also, I like the Wolves, but again, not so hot on the current fluff. Some is OK, others- eeeehhhh. The codex was kinda lame; I blame the writers for all the wolf stuff- Just a little excessive. But the BA do the same, with Blood.

LoneLictor wrote:

Vaktathi wrote:

asimo77 wrote:

They do everything better than everyone else and never **** up. Of course they come out looking silly after that.

I feel like all SM are like this to an extent. SW just more so and then there's the Grey Knights you take this up to 11.

At least with grey knights they have an excuse to be superior to other SM's, rather than "we're nonconformist" like SW's.

Oh my god. I just realized something. Space Wolves are hipsters.

"We don't use pyskers, but rather priests who summon the innate power of Fenris. You probably haven't heard of it."

"Yeah, we don't use the Codex Astartes. We even have a 13th Company. You probably haven't heard of it."

"Our geneseed gives us extralong K-9 teeth and more body hair and turns some of us into Wolfren. You probably haven't heard of them."

Ok, I laughed at that last one too.

Orks basically ruin the game for me. In games where Orks are involved, there are no interesting tactical choices being made on either side of the table. It becomes, "Will I roll well enough to kill enough Kanz / Wagons , etc, and will my opponent fail enough KFF saves, that he doesn't get across the table with enough left to do anything".

All of the units are completely idiotproof. Worry about cover? Pfft, KFF. Worry about casualties? Boyz are fearless until they take 20 casualties (30 strong). Playing the army consists of moving units 6" across the board, then running them, while maintaining maximum squad coherency and praying that you withstand enemy shooting for 2-3 turns. The most interesting tactical nuances to fighting Orks are going for side armor shots on Battle Wagons, and feeding them speed bumps. BORING.

Space Wolves. Just can't stand them. Hate their fluff and hate their characters and the way they play on the table as well.

NuggzTheNinja wrote:Orks basically ruin the game for me. In games where Orks are involved, there are no interesting tactical choices being made on either side of the table. It becomes, "Will I roll well enough to kill enough Kanz / Wagons , etc, and will my opponent fail enough KFF saves, that he doesn't get across the table with enough left to do anything".

All of the units are completely idiotproof. Worry about cover? Pfft, KFF. Worry about casualties? Boyz are fearless until they take 20 casualties (30 strong). Playing the army consists of moving units 6" across the board, then running them, while maintaining maximum squad coherency and praying that you withstand enemy shooting for 2-3 turns. The most interesting tactical nuances to fighting Orks are going for side armor shots on Battle Wagons, and feeding them speed bumps. BORING.

There's a few of things that really, *really* hurt Orks. No-Retreat, AV14, massed AV, and any of the new multiudes of things that can snipe individual models. I've seen full Ork mobz destroyed entirely in a single round of combat due to No-Retreat, especially in multiple combat. Orks have really no way of dealing with AV14 at anything but assault range, and massed AV11/12 very easily overwhelms their AT capabilities. Stuff like JotWW can pick out and destroy the one model in any Ork unit that gives them their real punch.

G. Whitenbeard wrote:

snake wrote:It's not just one army, but anything with hordes. I despise the reality that masses of weaklings can bring down elite soldiers both on the table and in reality.

The game wouldn't be very fair if a basic warfare tenet such as "Overwhelming numerical superiority" was not taken into account.

Also not sure why you have such a problem with reality.

I am well aware of this basic tenet of warfare and its significance, which I why I indicated that I dislike its reality.

I dislike this reality because I don't like seeing hard, well trained warriors brought down by fodder whose individual skills do not compare to said warriors and who consequently prevail only on the basis of their numbers. It irks my sense of honor.

snake wrote:

G. Whitenbeard wrote:

snake wrote:It's not just one army, but anything with hordes. I despise the reality that masses of weaklings can bring down elite soldiers both on the table and in reality.

The game wouldn't be very fair if a basic warfare tenet such as "Overwhelming numerical superiority" was not taken into account.

Also not sure why you have such a problem with reality.

I am well aware of this basic tenet of warfare and its significance, which I why I indicated that I dislike its reality.

I dislike this reality because I don't like seeing hard, well trained warriors brought down by fodder whose individual skills do not compare to said warriors and who consequently prevail only on the basis of their numbers. It irks my sense of honor.

but the reality is this is a table top game, if you followed the fluff to the letter in the games balance would not be there or a space marine for example woudl cost 800 points

as far as real world... it jsut is what it is, I cna be the bes ttrained in fighting hand to hand, small arms and longrange weapons of all kinds, but contrary to action movies if i gt charged by 20 people in close range... guess who's getting beaten not the twenty

*edit* I'm bad at typing >_<

G00fySmiley wrote:

snake wrote:

G. Whitenbeard wrote:

snake wrote:It's not just one army, but anything with hordes. I despise the reality that masses of weaklings can bring down elite soldiers both on the table and in reality.

The game wouldn't be very fair if a basic warfare tenet such as "Overwhelming numerical superiority" was not taken into account.

Also not sure why you have such a problem with reality.

I am well aware of this basic tenet of warfare and its significance, which I why I indicated that I dislike its reality.

I dislike this reality because I don't like seeing hard, well trained warriors brought down by fodder whose individual skills do not compare to said warriors and who consequently prevail only on the basis of their numbers. It irks my sense of honor.

but the reality is this is a table top game, if you followed the fluff to the letter in the games balance would not be there or a space marine for example woudl cost 800 points

as far as real world... it jsut is what it is, I cna be the bes ttrained in fighting hand to hand, small arms and longrange weapons of all kinds, but contrary to action movies if i gt charged by 20 people in close range... guess who's getting beaten not the one guy

"guess who's getting beaten not the one guy"

I am not sure but I think you mean that the one guy is getting beaten.

Moreover, I am well aware of all of these things. I understand that they can't and won't ever change. I still do not like it.

King Crow wrote:Easily chaos space marines. i think they're extremely tacky and over rated and f***ing everyone plays them, i also don't like necrons to much, fluff wise they're kinda cool, but i've never seen them painted any other color than boltgun metal.

Hey! My Necrons are fricking RED.


OT
More often than not I find myself hating smurf players rather than smurfs as an army. Arrogance should be rewarded with a slap in the mouth.

Disclaimer: I'm not generalising. I am speaking of my experiences in which, a large proportion of the time, the smurf players I come in to contact with are arrogant enough to make Simon Cowell seem a likeable chap.

Vaktathi wrote:There's a few of things that really, *really* hurt Orks. No-Retreat, AV14, massed AV, and any of the new multiudes of things that can snipe individual models. I've seen full Ork mobz destroyed entirely in a single round of combat due to No-Retreat, especially in multiple combat. Orks have really no way of dealing with AV14 at anything but assault range, and massed AV11/12 very easily overwhelms their AT capabilities. Stuff like JotWW can pick out and destroy the one model in any Ork unit that gives them their real punch.

Oh I know. It's not that I have difficulty in beating Orks, only that the tactical nuances are completely bland. No army forces me to play Dicehammer 40k more than Orks.

coolyo294 wrote:Space Wolves. I f****** hate everything about them.

This.

They're just rebellious for the sake of being rebellious and their fluff is utterly laughable. Furthermore Jaws of the World Wolf always has me raging

SpessMehrenD3R9 wrote:

I don't see why everyone is annoyed at Eldar arrogance. Fluff wise, I understand you can hate it, but from Eldar players? I for one have always made sure to not boast about a victory or seem arrogant about it. All the Eldar players I know do the same as far as I know.

It would have to be ultramarines, i don't mind the fluff and stuff its just that they are given far too much credit and are too popular

All justifiable. Paragons of Astartes and all.

snake wrote:

G00fySmiley wrote:

snake wrote:

G. Whitenbeard wrote:

snake wrote:It's not just one army, but anything with hordes. I despise the reality that masses of weaklings can bring down elite soldiers both on the table and in reality.

The game wouldn't be very fair if a basic warfare tenet such as "Overwhelming numerical superiority" was not taken into account.

Also not sure why you have such a problem with reality.

I am well aware of this basic tenet of warfare and its significance, which I why I indicated that I dislike its reality.

I dislike this reality because I don't like seeing hard, well trained warriors brought down by fodder whose individual skills do not compare to said warriors and who consequently prevail only on the basis of their numbers. It irks my sense of honor.

but the reality is this is a table top game, if you followed the fluff to the letter in the games balance would not be there or a space marine for example woudl cost 800 points

as far as real world... it jsut is what it is, I cna be the bes ttrained in fighting hand to hand, small arms and longrange weapons of all kinds, but contrary to action movies if i gt charged by 20 people in close range... guess who's getting beaten not the one guy

"guess who's getting beaten not the one guy"

I am not sure but I think you mean that the one guy is getting beaten.

Moreover, I am well aware of all of these things. I understand that they can't and won't ever change. I still do not like it.

that's fair to not like it, i see the point, also yes i fixed it, i meant who is winning not the one guy

NuggzTheNinja wrote:

Vaktathi wrote:There's a few of things that really, *really* hurt Orks. No-Retreat, AV14, massed AV, and any of the new multiudes of things that can snipe individual models. I've seen full Ork mobz destroyed entirely in a single round of combat due to No-Retreat, especially in multiple combat. Orks have really no way of dealing with AV14 at anything but assault range, and massed AV11/12 very easily overwhelms their AT capabilities. Stuff like JotWW can pick out and destroy the one model in any Ork unit that gives them their real punch.

Oh I know. It's not that I have difficulty in beating Orks, only that the tactical nuances are completely bland. No army forces me to play Dicehammer 40k more than Orks.

you need to play different ork lists then, i take fluffy lists most weekend. from big mek walker rush to shooting orks bw bash and kan wall get sobrign to play and have thier weaknesses. have you played somebody fielding 2 SAG and 45 lootas? lots of shots but very different for orks. or with the walker spam 2 big meks taken bare just to make 2 dreds troops and 9 kanz and 2 dred walkign up on ya. or biker orks... orks have alto of origionality and arguably mroe possible viable builds than most armies , but I would agree that most ork players don't like explorign the full use o fthe codex

Why so much dislike for space wolves and tau..
I love space wolves and tau =]

TheTaurans wrote:Why so much dislike for space wolves and tau..
I love space wolves and tau =]

Because everyone hates Space Furries.

Everyone hates the armies i like, so much hate... lol

Dark Eldar. They don't even try to be three-dimensional. Their entire society is a giant "Biggest Ass**** in the Universe" contest! And what irks me the most is that they have what it takes to be my favorite army!


Automatically Appended Next Post:

TheTaurans wrote:Everyone hates the armies i like, so much hate... lol

Its okay... I secretly like the Ultramarines.

Space Furries? Ouch. That... really didn't hurt, mostly cause their not. I can't say the same for all players, though.

You know what are much cooler?

Chaos Space Marines.

"We have hated for 10.000 years! RRAAAAAGGHH! and we have skulls 'n spikes 'n stuff!"

YAWN!

And don't get me started on Abbaddon.
He should be out on his incompetent donkey millennia ago.

Thirteen Black Crusades?!? That means twelve times he should have been turned into a spawn or worse.

Why would the Chaos gods spare him even a second glance considering how successful he was last time....and the time before that....and the time before that...

Love that pic, and the goat one too. Sadly, it's not true, along with many other stereotypes for other armies- Annnnnd, maybe it's just my area, but I rarely see any of the badness mentioned except from fanatical SM fanboys.

Look, furries, in space. Space Furries.

Aaah, back to the whole 'thirteenth company' thing. Doesn't mesh well with vikings, IMO. Which is why I chose to play SW, even before the new 'dex. The viking theme is just too cool to pass by, especially when done right.

I jest. A Viking themed Space Marine chapter is brilliant. The Wolf aspect, when done correctly, only enhances the image. This current edition has ruined them, in my opinion. Far too much of the Wolf aspect with the Thunderwolves, far too much anti-establishment teenage wish fulfillment. The way they're portrayed in the recent books where they make an appearance doesn't really help at all. A Thousand Sons makes them look like ignorant savages, Prospero Burns doesn't do anything to counteract this, and Battle of The Fang merely underscores this.

Mhmm. I really liked the older, more badass and less rebellious SW. Also to go along with the furries thing- it's an untrue (mostly) steroe type. Because Space wolves have wolves, they're furries? OK, so are DE players into bondage? Inquisition into touching little boys? (Catholic church reference... not trying to offend anyone here). Tau into tentacle porn? I think not. But, I digress...

Hey, you know what I hate? HATE THREADS.

Well yes,they have wolves so they are furries, it's simple internet humor and hyperbole. They aren't actually furries, the Wolf theme has just gone a wee bit over the top, no one's being serious when they say any stereotyped like that. For the record, all stereotypes you mentioned are also true, same with Smurfs, because they are blue.

SW would be helped if there names weren't so bleeding ridiculous. Wolftime, Thunderwolf Cavalry, Wolf Priests, Wolf Lord, Harald Deathwolf, Wolf Scouts, Great Wolf, Lone Wolf, Wolf Guard, Canis Wolfborn, and the name of the chapter itself-Space Wolves, like wolves in space! Then there's the combinations. Space Wolf Canis Wolfborn the Thunderwolf riding Wolf Guard to Harald Deathwolf. Seriously?

Asgeirr Darkwolf wrote:Space Furries? Ouch. That... really didn't hurt, mostly cause their not.

Hey, failed initiates turn into wolf-like monstrosities, that the successful initiates then ride in battle. That's pretty furry.

Steelmage99 wrote:Chaos Space Marines.

"We have hated for 10.000 years! RRAAAAAGGHH! and we have skulls 'n spikes 'n stuff!"

YAWN!

This is really only true if you're going by the current awful codex.

The interesting part comes from the feeling of the bitter traitor feeling himself betrayed, the aspect of complete insanity and descent into madnesss amongst the CSM's, and their willingness to knowingly damn themselves in the name of vengeance because they literally have nothing else left and can't fathom another way of life. They are consumed by their hatred and ultimately it will destroy them, and already has driven many into the same slavery they fought against the emperor for in the service of the Dark Gods and they just are too far gone to realize the extent of their tragedy.

And don't get me started on Abbaddon.
He should be out on his incompetent donkey millennia ago.

Thirteen Black Crusades?!? That means twelve times he should have been turned into a spawn or worse.

You're making the mistake each one was intended to retake terra. This simply is not the case, each one is a building block to that eventual goal but they aren't each trying to reach Terra. The 12th (gothic war) accomplished most of Abaddon's objectives quite well, and the 13th left off on something of a cliffhanger with Abaddon's forces in the ascendant having taken significant stretches of Cadia and broken through the Cadian Gate in major force.

Why would the Chaos gods spare him even a second glance considering how successful he was last time....and the time before that....and the time before that...

Because none of the Black Crusades were true failures?

Eldar.

The only army that I haven't beaten in 22 years plus of wargaming.

Even now with Dark Eldar, I just cannot do it.

I just hope my new Blood Angel/Night Lords army can do it.

Tau damn space commies.

Also Grey knights are ruined :(

God Emperor...
Never realized that people hate Space Wolves so much. Odd because their Primarch kick so much ass.


And let's change topic a little...


That one army you just hate, but in DoW games.
So?
I hate Tau and Orks. Seriously I just hate when Fire Warriors pick my Marines from half map trough the mountains and Big Mek teleporting right in a middle of my army.

Brother Coa wrote:God Emperor...
Never realized that people hate Space Wolves so much. Odd because their Primarch kick so much ass.

Eh, he comes off as a humongous self righteous dickbag in the Horus Heresy books, which hasn't helped

That one army you just hate, but in DoW games.
So?
I hate Tau and Orks. Seriously I just hate when Fire Warriors pick my Marines from half map trough the mountains and Big Mek teleporting right in a middle of my army.

Which iteration? Pre-Dark Crusade, Orks and Eldar were...beyond broken between Wraithlord/Fire Prism spam and Killakan Spam. Tau were super broken in DC before the first patch and really unfun to play against. Overall, my least liked race on Dawn of War? The Dark Eldar, they just never did it for me, but I didn't really *hate* them.

Lemon Rust does sound like a douchebag in the books. Odd, considering what he's accomplished...

So much potential, squandered. Story of Games Workshop's Life.

Breaks my heart - all the space wolf hating

Us wolves are fangtastic (sorry very cheesy I know!!) anyways I hate passionately - Tau (because they are just annoyingly out of place in 40K - far too cheesy), dark eldar (as someone said about SW, DE are massively overhyped and have ludicrous traits such as copius inv saves and stupidly high initiative values) and Necron (because I think that the Terminator films were watched too much when they were 'designed'!).

So let us feel the love of the space wolves!!!! Oh by the way, someone stated that the SW have killed imperial forces with no backlash....well what about the GK killing a whole section of sisters of battle just to draw out a daemon?!?!?! What the *@+k, where's the backlash on that one?!?!?!?!?!

GO WOLVES!

Just thinking.....maybe all the SW hate is due to the fact that our army is so kick ass and people find them hard to deal with? Just a thought!

Or maybe it's because they are pretend vikings... in space.

Hindenburg wrote:Or maybe it's because they are pretend vikings... in space.

What like Knights templar in space (GK)? Or Japanese inventors in space(Tau)? Or Aliens 1, 2, 3 and 4 (Tyranids)? Or Smurfs in space (UM)? Or Terminators 1, 2, 3 and 4 in space (Necrons)? Or catholicism in space (Witch hunters)?.....Oh the list goes on!!!!!!

Definately Space Wolves. Everybody that I know that playes them seems to be able to re-roll everything!

Somehow 9 Grey Hunters can survive being assaulted by 12 BA Assault Marines, a Librarian, and a Sanguinary Priest. And he basically refused to explain any of his rules.

All those things are better than pretend vikings.
I think Imperium Space Marines should have one codex. Codex: Space Marines.

Wulfen Andy wrote:Breaks my heart - all the space wolf hating

Us wolves are fangtastic (sorry very cheesy I know!!) anyways I hate passionately - Tau (because they are just annoyingly out of place in 40K - far too cheesy), dark eldar (as someone said about SW, DE are massively overhyped and have ludicrous traits such as copius inv saves and stupidly high initiative values) and Necron (because I think that the Terminator films were watched too much when they were 'designed'!).

So let us feel the love of the space wolves!!!! Oh by the way, someone stated that the SW have killed imperial forces with no backlash....well what about the GK killing a whole section of sisters of battle just to draw out a daemon?!?!?! What the *@+k, where's the backlash on that one?!?!?!?!?!

GO WOLVES!

Just thinking.....maybe all the SW hate is due to the fact that our army is so kick ass and people find them hard to deal with? Just a thought!

Half the Imperium doesn't know the Grey Knights or Demons exist, and they are authorized by the Inquisition to keep it that way. Plus wolves didn't have much of a reason compared to banishing a demon. Also they do have a good codex, but one that goes against all of the fluff written in it. Rawr we're space viking barbarian wolves that like close combat, so we're gonna sit back and shoot you with our extra cheap heavy weapons team. And to be honest I have yet to seen a wolf list that varies enough that I'm not completely prepared for it. I will admit that Space Vikings would be cool but not Wolf Space Wolf Viking Wolf Missile Launching Wolf Wolves

I hate the tau no offence to any tau players out there but they just ****ing gak me they seem like a challage untillyou get into assult range then they drop like flys

Wulfen Andy wrote:
Oh by the way, someone stated that the SW have killed imperial forces with no backlash....well what about the GK killing a whole section of sisters of battle just to draw out a daemon?!?!?! What the *@+k, where's the backlash on that one?!?!?!?!?!

Did you miss all the rage threads at that fluff piece? We've had at least a dozen.

Just thinking.....maybe all the SW hate is due to the fact that our army is so kick ass and people find them hard to deal with? Just a thought!

If by kick-ass you mean it's painfully undercosted, basically plays itself and encourages army builds that play more like Iron Warriors than Space Wolves...

Wulfen Andy wrote:

What like Knights templar in space (GK)? Or Japanese inventors in space(Tau)? Or Aliens 1, 2, 3 and 4 (Tyranids)? Or Smurfs in space (UM)? Or Terminators 1, 2, 3 and 4 in space (Necrons)? Or catholicism in space (Witch hunters)?.....Oh the list goes on!!!!!!

Except the other factions generally are able to stick to their concept without making it look silly, heck most are able to do it with some semblance of consistency

Oh well never mind! I have played and loved the space wolves since 2nd ed days. (Except when GW tried to slim down ALL marine chapters in 3rd ed). I really do love the fluff and I like the way they will fight for the imperium (sometimes better than most) but will not conform to the sycophantic dogma! I think the models look cool and love the wolf/wulfen aspects!

One question does make me wonder though - are there loads and loads of players who play space wolves?! And are people tired of facing them?

The one post someone put up about SW fielding certain types etc means that you have to adapt as warfare isn't fair! I would love to spank a horde of 'Nids without losing most of my SW! But I don't complain!

And the other types of stereotype? I cannot see where SW are different from smurfs in space or Catholicism in space really! Just because SW go along the Nordic mythology route certainly does not mean that it is the only line to copy from something previously known! Horus and betrayal?! My case is rested!!!!

I don't think anyone's saying they're the only stereotype, just that it was very poorly handled.

iproxtaco wrote:I don't think anyone's saying they're the only stereotype, just that it was very poorly handled.

This basically. There are a lot of pretty tired stereotypes in 40k. Space Wolves aren't even the worst. I'm looking at you elves in space.

Again what I said before:

Games Workshop- So much potential, squandered.

Space Wolves could be INCREDIBLY cool, instead of kinda.... just themselves.

That point has been repeated quite a few times over the last few pages. What are you trying to add to this?

Just that GW ruined my favorite army... and to newer players, and older one's, made them seem like a bunch of scumbags. That is alll.

Oh, and many points have been repeated often.

URGH, I HATE HATE THREADS!

Space Wolves.

Terrible concept and execution. Horrible fluff. It also doesn't hurt that the army plays the opposite of how it is suppose to.

Night's Blood wrote:Space Wolves.

Terrible concept and execution. Horrible fluff. It also doesn't hurt that the army plays the opposite of how it is suppose to.

This, and the fact they all sport revolting beards.

And that long-fangs are the biggest no-brainer in the entirety of 40k.