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Post by: Marik Law
After a long time of picking apart the stand-alone Marine books (Black Templars, Blood Angels, Dark Angels, Space Wolves) I started noticing certain patterns and trends within the books and decided to use what I had learned in order to create my own take on the Chapter Creation rules.
These rules are still unfinished as I plan to add in a Unit Creation section as well, but I wanted to share them with you as they are now so I can get some feedback on them, some balancing suggestions to the various options I've listed (I'm not ultra-concerned with balance, but I don't want things to be so completely broken that everything else in the list is overshadowed), as well as suggestions for new Combat Practices, Mutations, Chapter Tactics, Company Tactics, and more.
I hope you guys have as much fun with these rules as I had making them. Cheers!
PROGRESS: Halfway finished the Custom Psychic Powers section, roughly about 90% complete as of right now.
UPDATE - SEPTEMBER 26/11: Releasing the very rough version of the Final Alpha document for the Chapter Creator. This document contains everything except for Custom Psychic Powers, Example Chapters, and Alternate Rules. Note that there will be some spelling errors and well as other errors, if you all can point them out to me that would be amazing. Also, if you have any suggestions for the final version, let me know! 
| Filename |
ChapterCreator_Unfinished_V1_A.pdf |
![[Disk]](/dakkaforum/templates/default/images/icon_disk.gif)
Download
|
| Description |
The unfinished Final Version, Alpha Release. |
| File size |
1915 Kbytes
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Post by: The Zoat
This is great! I'll be making one up soon.
Besides that, I'm really looking forward to a unit creator.
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Post by: Marik Law
The Zoat wrote:This is great! I'll be making one up soon.
Besides that, I'm really looking forward to a unit creator.
Thank you, really appreciate the compliment of my work. The final document will have all the grammar and spelling errors worked out and will look much nicer, just keeping things rough until then.
If you have any suggestions for any additions to what I have so far please let me know, the more robust I can make this and the more choices I can give people the better.
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Post by: Molenis
This is really awesome! I will make rules for my Chapter soon.
One thing; The specialization special rules is useless for thunder hammers/lightning claws/power fists, because it stands 'may re-roll failed to hit rolls when shooting'. Just a grammatical error i guess.
I'm looking forward to a unit creator.
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Post by: Marik Law
Molenis wrote:This is really awesome! I will make rules for my Chapter soon.
One thing; The specialization special rules is useless for thunder hammers/lightning claws/power fists, because it stands 'may re-roll failed to hit rolls when shooting'. Just a grammatical error i guess.
I'm looking forward to a unit creator.
Fixed. Will be correct in the newest version.
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Post by: squidhills
Very interesting! It looks like you've put a lot of thought into this.
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Post by: Marik Law
squidhills wrote:Very interesting! It looks like you've put a lot of thought into this.
Most definitely and I'm always trying to add new options onto it. The Unit Creator won't be done until I'm absolutely sure what I have is both flexible and at least somewhat fair.
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Post by: Your Friend Doctor Robert
Working on using this to make the Salamanders now.
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Post by: Marik Law
Your Friend Doctor Robert wrote:Working on using this to make the Salamanders now.
Let me know how that turns out. Working on the next version of the Chapter Creator right now. Added some new features and will include the Unit Creation rules.
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Post by: Your Friend Doctor Robert
Here we go, Chapter Master Tu'Shan:
Cleanse and Purify
Hammer of The Forge
Heed The Wisdom Of Ancients
Veteran Chapter Master: 130 Points
Preferred Enemy(Orks) for Entire Army: +40 Points
Preferred Enemy(Eldar and Dark Eldar) For Entire Army: +40 Points
Thunder Hammer: 30 Points
Bolt Pistol w/ Extra Penetration x3: 30 Points
W/ Melta Rounds: 35 Points
W/ Powerful Shot x4: 55 Points
Melta Pistol Total: 55 Points
Total: 295
I think that Melta Pistols should be a basic option, and not cost 55 Points. Maybe just add a "Pistol Compression: +20 Points" Option for any Assault 1 weapon.
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Post by: Marik Law
Your Friend Doctor Robert wrote:I think that Melta Pistols should be a basic option, and not cost 55 Points. Maybe just add a "Pistol Compression: +20 Points" Option for any Assault 1 weapon.
Very good idea, thank you. Love how the Chapter Master turned out by the way, looks very Salamanders-like.
Update on the Unit Creation section: The section isn't going to be insanely flexible. I'm making it as flexible as possible, but the first iteration will not have rules to deal with independent characters that aren't special characters (like the Sanguinary Priests) and will not (probably ever) include rules for units that don't take up force organization slots.
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Post by: ironhandstraken
this sound great, only have had a quick skim over the rule but from what i can see it looks awesome.
any plans in the future to make one for other armies.
ironhandstraken
edit: on the second page with the Combat Practices, the Emperor's Light Destroy Our Foes "and Plasma Cannons longer have the Gets Hot! special rule." is there suppose to be a not in there.other then that great job and i'm looking forward to seeing what you make next
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Post by: Marik Law
ironhandstraken wrote:this sound great, only have had a quick skim over the rule but from what i can see it looks awesome.
any plans in the future to make one for other armies.
ironhandstraken
edit: on the second page with the Combat Practices, the Emperor's Light Destroy Our Foes "and Plasma Cannons longer have the Gets Hot! special rule." is there suppose to be a not in there.other then that great job and i'm looking forward to seeing what you make next
Hmm, yes, there should be a "no" before "longer have", I must have corrected it on my side already as the document I'm working on has it fixed.
As for future projects I have a few ideas, haven't decided which one I'm going to roll with yet though.
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Post by: James100
Chapter master Kardan Stronos of the Iron Hands:
clense and purify
hardened body
praise the machine god
heed the wisdom of the ancients
warsmith chapter master
minus one weapon skill
specialation bolters
first company veterans
sternguard company
meltagun
rapid fire weapon
extra shot
gets hot
lol only 210 points of awesomeness
he's amaizing a 3 shot meltagun thats rapid fire so nothing really changes but i get an extra shot for it and it being twin linked get's hot dont matter. that and sternguard troops that re-roll to hit 
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Post by: Marik Law
James100 wrote:he's amaizing a 3 shot meltagun thats rapid fire so nothing really changes but i get an extra shot for it
How did you get a 3 shot Rapid Fire weapon? If you use one of the special modifications to change a Meltagun into a Rapid Fire weapon it then counts as a Rapid Fire weapon, so any benefits from upgrades such as Rapid Mechanisms can no longer be taken.
I can see where the confusion may lay though and I've added a section in to clarify such. Sorry for the misunderstanding.
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Post by: Nightfall
Love IT! the Shadow Legion shall have there own Codex soon!
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Post by: Your Friend Doctor Robert
One note: To really accurately represent the Salamanders, they should have Hammers of The Forge, Cleanse and Purify, and Hardened Body, but your system only allows two of the three.
Alanki Harek, Chapter Master of the Crimson Angels
Death From Above
May The Emperor's Light Destroy Our Foes
On Wings of Angels
Veteran Chapter Master: 125 Points
Plasma Weapon Specialization for entire Army: +60 Points (185)
Power Sword with Rending: 25 Points (210)
Plasma Pistol with Explosive Rounds and Extended Barrel: 35 Points (245)
245 Points total
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Post by: Marik Law
Nightfall wrote:Love IT! the Shadow Legion shall have there own Codex soon!
Glad to hear people are enjoying the rules so much. I'm glad I could create something enjoyable that is at least somewhat balanced.
Unit Creation is coming along nicely, should hopefully be done soon. Also, while it won't be in the next version I release, I plan on having an Examples section which includes rules for some Chapters, their Chapter Master, and a unique unit or two for a few chapters (including the Imperial Fists, Iron Hands, Blood Ravens, Raven Guard, and more). I'll keep everyone posted!
Your Friend Doctor Robert wrote:One note: To really accurately represent the Salamanders, they should have Hammers of The Forge, Cleanse and Purify, and Hardened Body, but your system only allows two of the three.
You're in luck, I've solved this with the next version already to accommodate chapters which have three Combat Practices (at the expense of having no Chapter Tactics).
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Post by: Nightfall
My unique Bolter, an angel's wings. Basically a bolter, with and sight that has wings on it.
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Post by: Marik Law
Nightfall wrote:My unique Bolter, an angel's wings. Basically a bolter, with and sight that has wings on it.
Yes, but you can only take extra shots for non-Pistol, non-Rapid Fire weapons. By changing the Meltagun into a Rapid Fire weapon using Rapid Fire Modifications you make it a Rapid Fire weapon, thus you can no longer take Rapid Mechanisms. Again, sorry for the confusion, the new version will make this more clear.
EDIT: In case it went unnoticed, the rough version of the final product is now available. I'll be attempting to clean up the unit creator a bit for the final version, but for now I ask that you all please bear with the clunkiness of how it sits and if you have any questions about it just let me know.
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Post by: AnomanderRake
Good idea, but I think there ought to be some variety of drawbacks to counterbalance the bonuses provided by Combat Practices and Mutations. Limitations on army list selection, add to the points cost of wargear the Chapter doesn't specialize in, that sort of thing.
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Post by: Marik Law
AnomanderRake wrote:Good idea, but I think there ought to be some variety of drawbacks to counterbalance the bonuses provided by Combat Practices and Mutations. Limitations on army list selection, add to the points cost of wargear the Chapter doesn't specialize in, that sort of thing.
The reason such has been left out is because it was too easily abused during the days of the Chapter Creator, that and with the current line of marine Codex books (Blood Angels, Dark Angels, Space Wolves) it doesn't make sense. I may add more restrictions to certain Combat Practices or Mutations, but I don't see much point in bringing in a drawback system since the primary Codex books (Blood Angels, Dark Angels, Space Wolves) don't suffer from such drawbacks. Also, when you factor in things like the Unit Creator, it's too easy to get around such a Drawbacks system and not notice any hindering to your forces.
Another problem with a Drawbacks system is that each chapter is different in it's needs and it's situations, something which is better represented by the player's own intervention and invention rather than something that is forced upon them. Drawbacks also have become much harder with the new vanilla marine codex with the removal of things such as relics and terminator command squads. While I can understand the want or need for drawbacks I don't view them as necessary. If somebody is abusing these rules simply refuse to play with them as they aren't really playing for fun or in the spirit of the simple fun the game.
However, if you feel a Combat Practice or Mutation is too good as-is please let me know, I will do my best to tweak it to make it a bit more in line with the other Combat Practices or Mutations.
UPDATE: The finalized, updated, improved and easier to use version version is roughly 50% completed. What I have left to finish: The rest of the Unit Creation entries (they are 100x easier to use than in the current version), Special Rules section, Unique Wargear section, Unique Psychic Powers section, and the Example Chapters section (which will include Special Characters and Unique Units for Salamanders, White Scars, and more).
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Post by: Saintspirit
This is pretty neat! One thing though is that you seem to confuse Combat Practises with Combat Tactics - what is what? It appears it is the same but with two names, so it would be easier to understand if one name was chosen.
One addition I'd like to see for unique ranged weapons would be similar to dragonfire rounds, i.e. ignore cover saves.
Lastly a question about special weapons for (special) units: I assume that there is a difference between when you replace any of their ranged weapons, and when you add them as options?
Also, when you are able to make librarians/chaplains elites, are there any possibility to give them as units special wargear?
In any case I'll try to make something about Dragon Guard:
Combat Practises(Tactics?):
Cleanse and Purify
Death From Above
Run Like the Wind
Chapter Tactics:
Knowledge is Power
Chapter Master Zaohren:
Veteran Chapter Master - 125
Ancient (twice) - 35
Furious Charge (him and joined unit) - 30
Weapon: Power weapon, built-in flamer, +2 Strength - 30
220
Not completely finished though, but still.
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Post by: Marik Law
Saintspirit wrote:This is pretty neat! One thing though is that you seem to confuse Combat Practises with Combat Tactics - what is what? It appears it is the same but with two names, so it would be easier to understand if one name was chosen.
If you could let me know where some of these mistakes are, I'll be sure to correct them in the final version.
Saintspirit wrote:One addition I'd like to see for unique ranged weapons would be similar to dragonfire rounds, i.e. ignore cover saves.
Definately something that will be added in the final version.
Saintspirit wrote:Lastly a question about special weapons for (special) units: I assume that there is a difference between when you replace any of their ranged weapons, and when you add them as options?
Also, when you are able to make librarians/chaplains elites, are there any possibility to give them as units special wargear?
For the first question: yes, the original unit creator is pretty rough around the edges and not very well laid out, something that is being corrected in the final version with easier to understand rules.
Second question: Sadly I have no plans to do such at this point in time. The final version will have rules on making minor alterations to already existing units, but that's about it. I'll see what I can do though.
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Post by: Saintspirit
Marik Law wrote:Saintspirit wrote:This is pretty neat! One thing though is that you seem to confuse Combat Practises with Combat Tactics - what is what? It appears it is the same but with two names, so it would be easier to understand if one name was chosen.
If you could let me know where some of these mistakes are, I'll be sure to correct them in the final version.
On page 2, you wrote the various Combat Practises. Then, on page 5 you say that "If you do not choose any Chapter Tactics you may take one additional Combat Tactic instead." Do you mean Combat Practises there, or have aI missed the page about Combat Tactics?
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Post by: Marik Law
Saintspirit wrote:Marik Law wrote:Saintspirit wrote:This is pretty neat! One thing though is that you seem to confuse Combat Practises with Combat Tactics - what is what? It appears it is the same but with two names, so it would be easier to understand if one name was chosen.
If you could let me know where some of these mistakes are, I'll be sure to correct them in the final version.
On page 2, you wrote the various Combat Practises. Then, on page 5 you say that "If you do not choose any Chapter Tactics you may take one additional Combat Tactic instead." Do you mean Combat Practises there, or have aI missed the page about Combat Tactics?
Yes, that would be a typo, thank you for pointing this out. It has been corrected for the much prettier and much easier to use final version (which includes more Hero options, more Unit options, custom Psychic Powers, and more!).
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Post by: megabambam
You my friend is a  ing genius, i will quickly come up with my own and post it here !
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Post by: wizard12
Awesome, may have to try this out later
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Post by: Grenat
Hey ! This is a very nice idea !
I know some of my friends who will be pretty happy with these chapterish options
Keep up the good work ! I eagerly await the final version.
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Post by: megabambam
So here's my chapter (haven't figured out any name yet)
Combat practices:
Know your enemy
See but dont be seen
Chapter tactics:
Shadows that move
Chapter Hero:
Veteran Chapter master 125
Special rules:
Skilled x2 (BS) 35
Eternal warrior 35
Precision (BS) 10
Move through cover 5
Fleet 5
Wargear:
Artificier Armour 15
Unique Bolter 30
= 260
Unique ranged weapon:
Bolter free
Extended barrel 5
Extra penetration 10
Poison rounds 2+ 15
= 30
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Post by: nathan2195
My chapter master for my plasma company.
Faith Rewards Strength
My the Emperor's Light Destroy Our Foes
Veteran Chapter Master:125
rendering:10
2 plasma sword(5 for ccw)
- Always wounds on a to-wound roll of 2+ in close combat (+20 points)
-On a roll of 5+ the weapon causes Instant Death to the wounded target (+10 points)
-Will always hit in close combat on a to-hit roll of 3+ (+10 points)
total 90
total 225
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Post by: BoTW
I like!!!! 13th company will be posted soon.
Any ideas for the Wulfen packs?
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Post by: king-newmic
At this codexs current stage, it is UNACCEPTABLE.
It is a good start but giving 4x power boosts to a basic marine without drawbacks of any kind? Thats just wrong...not even a basic base line upgrade for what their capable of doing. The mutations need to be worked on because right now "mutations" sounds more like "benefits under another name".
I like it alot and i love customizing units to make somthing new and never seen but right now all I see instead of whole new Chapters is "UBA-SPESHMRINES mkII,III, and IV"
The first step to stopping power gaming is making sure every plus carrys a minus inside, not another plus.
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Post by: Marik Law
king-newmic wrote:At this codexs current stage, it is UNACCEPTABLE.
It is a good start but giving 4x power boosts to a basic marine without drawbacks of any kind? Thats just wrong...not even a basic base line upgrade for what their capable of doing. The mutations need to be worked on because right now "mutations" sounds more like "benefits under another name".
I like it alot and i love customizing units to make somthing new and never seen but right now all I see instead of whole new Chapters is "UBA-SPESHMRINES mkII,III, and IV"
The first step to stopping power gaming is making sure every plus carrys a minus inside, not another plus.
Would you care to elaborate on would you mean? I never said these rules would stop power gaming, however what I did say was that we, as hobby gamers, need to stop worrying about it so much by stopping the process of trying to turn this game into a serious, sports-esque competitive game. I also make a long note about how if you feel a player is using these rules (or any other rules for that matter) to "power game" (including min-maxing) to simply refuse to play with them. Power gamers are always going to weed their way into gaming, no matter how hard you hammer out rules to make them "balanced." Simply adding a minus to a plus isn't going to stop power gamers, hence why I haven't introduced things like Drawbacks (everyone simply abused the Drawbacks from the former Space Marine chapter creation rules in Codex Space Marines anyways, so why bother).
Not saying that you don't have a valid point or anything, if anything I appreciate the concern, I just think the game as a whole is headed to bad territory trying to be as balanced as possible at the expense of the hobbyists (but that's for an entire different thread).
If it helps here is how I came about this process of creating these rules sets...
1) Combat Practices & Mutations: After studying Codex Blood Angels, Codex Dark Angels, and Codex Space Wolves, I noted that each chapter had two general special rules not found in vanilla chapters (Blood Angels have Descent of Angels and Red Thirst, Space Wolves have Counter-Attack and Acute Senses/Night Vision, and Dark Angels being the oldest of the three Codex books has Stubborn). Thus, it made sense to me that a Codex chapter could have two special skills as well without added points costs as actual Codex chapters didn't suffer point increases from such either. Mutations are stronger, hence why you are only allowed one and hence why each tends to come with downsides (Bloodlust only works on a D6 roll of 6, Hardened Body/Sturdy reduces Initiative and consolidate/sweeping advance range, and Keen Senses I didn't feel needed anything as it was pretty in-line balance-wise with the regular Combat Practices, and I've rebalanced a few of the other ones as well). If you have any problems with a particular rule being potentially too good as I stated before please, let me know, and I'll see what I can do about fixing it.
2) Chapter Tactics: Chapters having organizational variances has been around since third edition, it was with 4th Edition that these variances were snuffed out in the actual rules and have started seeing a re-emergence with Blood Angels and Space Wolves in 5th Edition. I simply elaborated on what has been done about chapters in the past and what is being done with chapters in the present while adding in a few more options to round out the choices more. I was originally going to include Drawbacks, but ditched this idea after the rampant abuse of the Drawbacks system from the last generation of Space Marine Divergent Chapter Rules from 4th Edition, besides it seems Games-Workshop has done away with chapter flaws anyways with merging the various Chapters into one vanilla codex.
With that said, however, I may eventually end up categorizing the non-mutation Combat Practices so you have to choose from a particular category.
3) Heroes, Unique Forces, Special Rules, Wargear, etc: This is a bit easier to balance as everything in this area costs or deducts points. Sure you can keep piling on wargear, stats, and special rules to a hero or unit, but then their points cost is going to be astronomical (speaking of points caps, Heroes will have a Points Cap of 300 points in the finalized version of the rules and each Unique Forces unit listing will have a points cap as well).
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Post by: BoTW
Here's an example of a chapter I would like to use:
Zeal is thy greatest Weapon (Furious Charge + Rage)
Leave them no quarter (Counter Charge)
On wings of angels (Assault squads become troops + Scoring)
Heed the wisdom of the ancients (Dreads become scoring + Can be used as HQ, Elite or Heavy)
Vet Chapter Master (Some special character) 285pts + cost of Storm Shield and Jump pack
Fierce, Alert, Furious, Eternal Warrior, Specialisation (Lightning Claws. Hero only), Precision (Reroll to hit in CC. Honour Guard unit only)
Special Weapon: Lightning Claw (Ignores Invul, +D6 attacks) will reroll to hit and wound.
Wargear: Storm Shield, Jump Pack
6 5 5 4 3 6 D6+4 10 3++
+ he has furious charge, rage and counter attack
Honour Guard for Vet Chapter Master 21pts p/m
Assault Squad: Furious Charge, Rage, Counter Attack, Reroll to wound in cc
Special CC weapon: Chainsword + D3 attacks
As one can gather this will be an all out assault army with Ass Squads as troops + scoring dreads as heavy and elite choices.
The Hero of this army is going to be a monster in cc and his honour guard will have D3+4 I5 S5 attacks on the charge reroll to wound!!
Talk about a Deathstar... Will be great to have them in a Storm Raven
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Post by: BoTW
This hero might be a bit OP though...
Does the Rage and lack of 2+ save make him not OP?
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Post by: king-newmic
Eh, maybe i am over reacting to this a little too hard. Nevermind previous statment then
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Post by: The Dwarf Wolf
Jut thinking about it: the chapter tactics look a little too strong. Scoring dreads are really too strong, but i loved Ven. Dreads counting as HQs
About mutations: why there is not any mutation that increase initiative? Maybe lower gravity worlds could produce aglie, nimble (but relatively) fragile marines (+1 Initiative, -1 Thougnes, treated as bonus, so dont apling to instant death)
I liked it, but whas thinking on how to use the chapter rules without the need for a chapter master... anyway, congratulations
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Post by: Marik Law
BoTW wrote:This hero might be a bit OP though...
Does the Rage and lack of 2+ save make him not OP?
I wouldn't think so, he is after all 285 points. There will be some balancing revisions made in the final version, however, so be prepared.
The Dwarf Wolf wrote:Jut thinking about it: the chapter tactics look a little too strong. Scoring dreads are really too strong, but i loved Ven. Dreads counting as HQs
About mutations: why there is not any mutation that increase initiative? Maybe lower gravity worlds could produce aglie, nimble (but relatively) fragile marines (+1 Initiative, -1 Thougnes, treated as bonus, so dont apling to instant death)
I liked it, but whas thinking on how to use the chapter rules without the need for a chapter master... anyway, congratulations
Thanks for the input! You're right, Dreadnoughts being scoring is a bit too beefy and has been removed in the final version.
Thanks to your suggestion, the final version will have a new mutation: Nimble, +1 Initiative at the cost of -1 Strength (muscles are used to being able to move quickly and have become frail). If you have any more suggestions for mutations, let me know as the section is pretty scrawny right now.
I don't know of a Space Marine chapter that doesn't have a Chapter Master or some kind of acting figurehead. Perhaps if you told me your chapter's situation and why they don't have a Chapter Master I could look into adding something.
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Post by: Blood Angel 17
You should add a dreadnought chapter master
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Post by: Marik Law
Blood Angel 17 wrote:You should add a dreadnought chapter master
Consider it done. I've also changer the Chapter Master rule a bit, it's now part of an additive section called Masters. There are seven Masters and you can have one of each in the chapter (one of which is the Master of the Chapter), each having their own special rule (Master of the Chapter has God of War now instead of Orbital Bombardment, Master of the Fleet now has a better version of Orbital Bombardment) I've also removed the requirement that your chapter needs a Chapter Master as well.
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Post by: jim me lad
I absolutely love this! (made an account just to tell you so!) Really got me thinking about starting Raven Guard again.
With that in mind, how did you intend the "Talons of Eagles" Combat Practice to work? Specifically, you say: "any model or unit which may take a power weapon but does not normally have access to lightning claws", and I cannot find any units in the vanilla codex this applies to, unless you extend "power weapons" to cover powerfists and Relic blades, in which case standard termies and honourguard could take them as an option. Other than this, the only way for a unit to be affected by this would be if the Sergeant having the option to take power weapons leads to the whole squad having the option to take lightning claws. Are either of these intended outcomes? Otherwise, the only affected models would be the scout sergeant, devastator sargeant and techmarine.
I'm not sure I think this is a problem as such, but given the amazing unit and hero creation system you have in place, which allows you to add lightning claws to pretty much anyone, is it enough to have "Talons of Eagles" just make lightning claws mastercrafted, for simplicitys sake? I guess the thunderhammer and powerfist Combat Practices may be similar.
Thanks again for making this, hope this post isnt too long winded! Ill be seeking out pen and paper and making my Raven Guard this evening!
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Post by: Marik Law
jim me lad wrote:I absolutely love this! (made an account just to tell you so!) Really got me thinking about starting Raven Guard again.
With that in mind, how did you intend the "Talons of Eagles" Combat Practice to work? Specifically, you say: "any model or unit which may take a power weapon but does not normally have access to lightning claws", and I cannot find any units in the vanilla codex this applies to, unless you extend "power weapons" to cover powerfists and Relic blades, in which case standard termies and honourguard could take them as an option. Other than this, the only way for a unit to be affected by this would be if the Sergeant having the option to take power weapons leads to the whole squad having the option to take lightning claws. Are either of these intended outcomes? Otherwise, the only affected models would be the scout sergeant, devastator sargeant and techmarine.
I'm not sure I think this is a problem as such, but given the amazing unit and hero creation system you have in place, which allows you to add lightning claws to pretty much anyone, is it enough to have "Talons of Eagles" just make lightning claws mastercrafted, for simplicitys sake? I guess the thunderhammer and powerfist Combat Practices may be similar.
Thanks again for making this, hope this post isnt too long winded! Ill be seeking out pen and paper and making my Raven Guard this evening!
Basically only models which have access to a power weapon via upgrades can have access to these weapons. However, in the final version, you can make your own units and even replace a few squads in the army with them, so it'll be much easier to make a lightning claw-heavy chapter no problem. The final version is going to have a lot of improvements to it as well in terms of how easy it is to understand and read, such as the Hero Creation and Unique Forces (Unit Creation) sections, which are way easier to maneuver around and use.
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Post by: L33TFROG
The praise the machine god tactic
That let's you make tech marines sergeants masters of the forge elites and what not should be nerfed to the status for the equivalent rule for chaplains and librarians
As it takes up 1 to get special sergeants while the others take two
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Post by: AFPredator
very nice.... subscribed to this.... I even saved the current version on my flash drive (If that's cool with you Marik?)... I'll definately be using this when I create my chapter...
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Post by: Marik Law
L33TFROG wrote:The praise the machine god tactic
That let's you make tech marines sergeants masters of the forge elites and what not should be nerfed to the status for the equivalent rule for chaplains and librarians
As it takes up 1 to get special sergeants while the others take two
This is due to the potency of the units in question. Having any Sergeant be able to upgrade to a psyker or a Chaplain is a pretty big deal. As a psyker, the unit gains added psychic powers for either protection or offensive might. For Priests, the unit becomes Fearless and gets bonuses when they charge. Where as with a Techmarine the unit doesn't really benefit all too much, they can bolster ruins (if there are any) and repair vehicles, so they don't really offer as much to a squad's potency as a Psyker or a Priest does. This is why I made the decision to have Praise The Machine God only be one level instead of two.
AFPredator wrote:very nice.... subscribed to this.... I even saved the current version on my flash drive (If that's cool with you Marik?)... I'll definately be using this when I create my chapter...
No problem at all. Hope everyone is looking forward to the prettier, improved, and easier to understand final version. Added some new things, balanced some others, changed a few things.
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Post by: dragonfire
First off I love this supplement, I was really sad when there were no rules in the new marine dex for custom chapters.
Anyway my question was have you thought of custom Psychic powers?
I'm just wondering cause my chapter took Knowledge above all and wanted to craft my own.
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Post by: Marik Law
dragonfire wrote:First off I love this supplement, I was really sad when there were no rules in the new marine dex for custom chapters.
Anyway my question was have you thought of custom Psychic powers?
I'm just wondering cause my chapter took Knowledge above all and wanted to craft my own.
There will most certainly be Custom Psychic Powers in the final version, however I'm still stuck on the Custom Wargear section. Lots of different Wargear options and special rules and I want to make sure I don't miss any. Been digging through every Codex and Imperial Armour book for inspiration.
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Post by: megabambam
So when will we be lucky enough to see the final version?
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Post by: Danzag
This is such a cool idea... Makes me want to work out a small chapter of Marines
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Post by: Marik Law
megabambam wrote:So when will we be lucky enough to see the final version?
Hopefully before the month (September) is out. Taking my time with the newly revamped Wargear section and Special Rules to make sure there is a wide array of things to choose from to allow the best customizable experience for the marine players using it.
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Post by: Tesunie
(Warning, long post ahead!!)
Okay, before I start saying anything, I just want to say how awesome of an idea this is. It's great to see some people also agree that the hobby side of the game is just as important as the game side.
However, with that being said, I have a few questions/concerns/problems.
I'll start out this by saying, though I've only had your chapter creator for a few days now, I've fully read and absorbed all of the material you presented. It looks good at a quick glance. You gave what looks to be good points for everything, etc.
Now, I also know that each codex has some point discrepancies as well. I too own all the up to date codexes printed so far, and when trying to make a unit, I've come across a point value problem.
Ledend/key code:
DA: Dark Angels
SM: Space Marine (main codex)
BT: Black Templars
BA: Blood Angels (wont be mentioned, as a friend has that codex with him right now.)
CC: Chapter Creator
I'll start with something simple. I've taken the normal Dreadnought and broken it down. They shall all for our sanity have the same equipment on them, an assault cannon and Dreadnought close combat weapon with built in Storm bolter.
Dreadnought: 20 pts
Dreadnought Close Combat Weapon: 40 pts
With built in Storm bolter: 5 pts
Assault Cannon: 35 pts
Smoke Launchers and Searchlights: 5 pts
Total cost: CC 105 pts total
DA: 125 pts total
BT: 105 pts total
SM: 115 pts total
I have a problem as I'm trying to create a Dark Angel's themed chapter with only a few minor tweaks and alterations to create my own successor chapter. If I follow your creator, I come up with a cheaper base for my upcoming unique deadnought than it would be for a normal dreadnought of my chapter. I'm already planing of adding in the 20 pts missing from my custom deadnought to make it match. I was just wondering why the points seemed so low.
Now for the Landraider. This model is base across the board, no changes and no point difference between chapters (excluding the for the moment missing Blood Angels.
Landraider: 140
Lascannon: 40
-Twinlinked: 15 (heavy weapon)
-Side mounts: 5 pts (for the two sides)
Heavy Bolder: 20
-Twinlinked: 15 (heavy weapon)
- Front mount: 5
Smoke launchers and Searchlights: 5
Total points: CC: 245
SP: DA: BT: 250
5 points isn't much to worry about, so I call that accurate enough. Though I did have a question about how to increase transport capacity, particularly in the case of the Landraider Crusader. It still has side mounts and a front mount, while having 16 models transport. The max you can get with your creator is by having no weapons on it at all and even then you get only a max of 14. Am I reading this wrong? Maybe you should have troop expansion bays being a point cost, instead of based off armaments. (I would also assume your point system had landraider Crusaders with a multi-melta as an upgrade.)
Landspeeders once again come up with a small point discrepancy.
Landspeeder: 50 pts
Heavy Bolter: 20
Total: CC: 70
DA: 65 (weapon choices maybe? Or just old codex...)
SM: BT: 50
Two codexes agree on 50 points. So would that make it so the Landspeeder's base cost be 20 points less? Or maybe the Heavy Bolter is free for them? I'd suggest the former.
I suggest changing the base for the other above vehicles to match the normal costs of their corresponding entries in already existing codexes. Majority rules for them maybe? Dark Angel themed Dreadnoughts would just be more expensive, but probably because they have the Venrable upgrade option unlike most others. Special rule for them probably...
Now, after you read all that, I just want to say, I don't want to put your system down. it's a great thing! Just, needs some tweeks and edits maybe. I post this in the light to help you create a better and more point accurate guide. I don't post this with any intent to downgrade or demean your work. It's great and I have loved playing with and reading this creator so far.
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Post by: Marik Law
Tesunie wrote:(Warning, long post ahead!!)
Thank you for such an amazingly helpful and constructive post, Tesunie!
As for most of the concerns they've already been addressed in the final version. There have been a lot of points tweaks and balance tweaks made other than simply making everything look prettier (one of the reasons why it's taking me so long to produce the final version). For example, using the Chapter Creator rules, in order to get an identical Dreadnought to the one in Codex Space Marines now brings the cost up to 105 points, identical to that of the one found in the Codex.
I'm hoping to have the finalized rules finished by the end of the month, however having 2-3 other jobs means less free time but I'm pushing ever forward to get you guys the best and easier to use version as soon as I can.
I'm using a much better program in order to create the finalized document, so expect a proper looking Rules Document instead of simply something from Open Office.
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Post by: Tesunie
I've also come across a few other point problems, as I've since moved on to troops as well. One base problem I'm seeing is weapon points. Your base seems correct for points, but your formula for adding weapons to troops seem to be a little off.
Now, this section I found a little confusing myself, but here is how I understand it.
Marine: 16 points per. x4 64
Sargent: 26 pts. 90 pts total. Matches up with my DA codex fine so far.
Melta-gun: 10 pts/3 = 3~4 pts. Round to 5? Codex says 10pts.(suggest divide by 2, not three. Makes it even 5 points.)
x5 marines: 16 pts per: 80. Five points over. Equals with melta-gun's cheaper cost, especially if divided by 2 instead of 3.
Plasma Cannon: 30 pts/3 = 10 points. Five points too cheap. I'd rather see a penalty for creating a new unit. Not costing less. However, divide by 2 and you get 15. This meets with my DA codex number.
Suggestion: Reduce the number to being divided by 2, not three when determining wargear. And hope people place practical restrictions like all the other codexes on amount of wargear options per squad.
Also, I note a lack of Terminator armor, Artificer armor and other armor choice upgrades, particularly for HQs. I suggest it replaces all that character's wargear with a powersword, storm bolter and terminator armor at 25-40 pts. I think 30 points would be a solid middle ground.
Also, noticed Iron Halos seem to be missing.
I shall now simply wait for your response and I hope these suggestions help you out. (Or if I'm doing this wrong, correct me.)
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Okay, shall await your finalized rules.
And if you wish, I have Adobe Illustrator and Indesign. Don't know if you want any help, but I could make it look almost codex like if I had a few pictures to toss in. (And I also have a graphic design degree to boot!)
Do you want me to continue to post suggestions and point differences I find? If you think you've caught them all in the final version I haven't seen yet, then I'll stop. (Trying not to be a pest... ya know?)
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Post by: Marik Law
Tesunie wrote:Okay, shall await your finalized rules.
And if you wish, I have Adobe Illustrator and Indesign. Don't know if you want any help, but I could make it look almost codex like if I had a few pictures to toss in. (And I also have a graphic design degree to boot!)
Do you want me to continue to post suggestions and point differences I find? If you think you've caught them all in the final version I haven't seen yet, then I'll stop. (Trying not to be a pest... ya know?)
Most of the points costs have been fixed already for every unit. The mistake I made with the Alpha version is trying to bunch all of the wargear and points costs into one section in a very crude manner. In the new one, not including Custom Wargear, all weapons have points costs listed for each individual custom unit instead of having a generic section.
Everything is going to be make much easier with the new version.
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Post by: Tesunie
Can't wait to see it then.
Good luck on designing the final version! And don't forget to ask if you might need any help (or second opinions)!
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Post by: Asherian Command
You need a few others like.
Desert Warriors- Have longer lasting stamina compared to other astrates, fleet special rule.
Broken Warriors- The Chapter has suffered causalities. - what ever you want to minus. Give them careful planning
Untrusted- Members of this chapter have had a few members gone stray, some may carry daemon weapons.
Chaos Renegades- Members are known to be renegades, may use 1-2 units from chaos space marines codex. (Daemon Weapons, daemonic items.) Imperial and Inquistion units gain perfered enemy against them.
Mutated- Some members show a unquie mutation such as an invisible eye, an extra arm, bone weapons, giants even among other marines, Genuises , according to which mutation you choose. (You may only choose one for the chapter. Only one marine per a squad may have a mutation.)
Invisible eye- increase range of weapons by 2"
Extreme Strength- +1 strength
Bone Weapons- +1 Attack (must be modelled)
Giants among Angels- +1 wound
Increased Intelligence- +1 to Reserves
'Renegades- Chapter has turned renegade, though refuse to use chaos powers. They have less access to newer weaponry and chapter is hunted, all imperial units gain preferred enemy against them.
those good suggestions or no?
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Post by: Marik Law
Tesunie wrote:Can't wait to see it then.
Good luck on designing the final version! And don't forget to ask if you might need any help (or second opinions)!
Final Version will definitely need to be gone over and balanced a bit more. I've tried to balance it as much as posisble but I'm just one man, so I've probably missed a few things.
Asherian Command wrote:You need a few others like.
Desert Warriors- Have longer lasting stamina compared to other astrates, fleet special rule.
Fleet is one of the options available in the Final version for Combat Practices.
Asherian Command wrote:Broken Warriors- The Chapter has suffered causalities. - what ever you want to minus. Give them careful planning
Trying to avoid detriments at this point in time as they were easily abused for the last official Space Marine Chapter Traits rules. Basically I'm leaving it up to the player to decide which units are not included. I am thinking of including an Optional Rules section that stores or clubs can use to balance things out a bit more though.
Asherian Command wrote:Untrusted- Members of this chapter have had a few members gone stray, some may carry daemon weapons.
One step ahead of ya. Already in there as Mutations, though the Daemon Weapon rules use the Grey Knight variation.
Asherian Command wrote:Chaos Renegades- Members are known to be renegades, may use 1-2 units from chaos space marines codex. (Daemon Weapons, daemonic items.) Imperial and Inquistion units gain perfered enemy against them.
I've been thinking of making a section called Wayward Sons, which covers chapters which fled instead of being Excommunicated, Pirates, Renegades of various factions, and others, however I'm not satisfied with anything I've come up with yet in that area to balance things out. Suggestions welcome as to how these could be pulled off in a fair manner (removal of Combat Tactics and ATSKNF, no Grey Knight or Sisters of Battle allies, all other Space Marine chapters gain Preferred Enemy against the chapter, etc).
Asherian Command wrote:Mutated- Some members show a unquie mutation such as an invisible eye, an extra arm, bone weapons, giants even among other marines, Genuises , according to which mutation you choose. (You may only choose one for the chapter. Only one marine per a squad may have a mutation.)
Invisible eye- increase range of weapons by 2"
Extreme Strength- +1 strength
Bone Weapons- +1 Attack (must be modelled)
Giants among Angels- +1 wound
Increased Intelligence- +1 to Reserves
Mutations are already covered. I want to avoid certain mustaions (+1 Wound, for example) as they would simply be much too hard to balance in a fair manner so the chapter doesn't just steamroll everything.
Asherian Command wrote:'Renegades- Chapter has turned renegade, though refuse to use chaos powers. They have less access to newer weaponry and chapter is hunted, all imperial units gain preferred enemy against them.
May be useful for something else, but right now detriments aren't part of the grand scheme of how the Chapter Creator works. Again, may introduce an Optional Rules section for stores and clubs.
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Post by: Asherian Command
K thanks. You might also want to put in a Crusade Chapter thing where they can take Crusade Squads. Or they can take up to 20 Tactical marines for one squad but have to give up a few things.
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Post by: Rocketmike
Just wanted to say I am loving your work right now and thank you so much for providing this pdf. I've been looking for a fair way to do something like this for a while. Right now I'm trying to make a chapter that focuses on its faith to the emperor. I want them to be similar to the Grey Knights just not ACTUALLY Grey Knights. I'll likely post something when I've finished... which could be days from now.
Couple of thoughts on weapon creation:
What about things like Chain Axes, which allow, at best, a 4+ armor save, essentially making things like Terminators have to roll 4+ instead of their 2+?
What about the Vampire special rule that can potentially happen on a GK daemonblade? Something to consider as a weapon option or special rule.
Bonuses to initiative such as the GK halberd. Perhaps an option that give +1 and another that give +2?
Just some thoughts for even MORE options 
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Post by: Lord Magnus
I am wondering what the points limit is.. because from what I see it is very easy to make OTT Characters..
Veteran Chapter Master - 130
Iron Halo
Artificer Armour 15
Precision CC - 10
I6 - 35
Attacks, 4 - 20
Power Weapon - 15
Ignores Invuls - 10
Wounds on 2+ - 20
Hits on 3+ - 10
Adds d6 attacks - 20
Reroll failed hits - 10
No CCW bonus - -5
Automatically Appended Next Post: Nevermind, I see 300, but looking at the character above, it is only 290, I would actually suggest a drop to 250 or 275 limit, just so they can't squeeze QUITE so much in there, because this example would crush nearly any model in the game at CC, definitely any marine. (nice counter to mephiston though )
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Post by: Tesunie
Rocketmike wrote:Couple of thoughts on weapon creation:
What about things like Chain Axes, which allow, at best, a 4+ armor save, essentially making things like Terminators have to roll 4+ instead of their 2+?
What about the Vampire special rule that can potentially happen on a GK daemonblade? Something to consider as a weapon option or special rule.
Bonuses to initiative such as the GK halberd. Perhaps an option that give +1 and another that give +2?
Just some thoughts for even MORE options
Chain Axes shouldn't reduce armor saves (that's an older rule for 40k if I'm right as well as more of a fantasy thing). Instead, have it give them +1 strength. Though technically, a chain axe should be no different than a chain sword. The shape shouldn't matter as long as the properties are the same. Either that or give it rending maybe? Unless you wanted to base it after the chain fist, which counts as a power fist but gets 2d6+S armor penetration. But then the question lies, what about the chain sword?
I just feel that the Chain Axe and Chain Sword are too similar for one to have a special rule over the other. (Though I'm willing to hear out reasons and more debate.)
Halberds are nice, but they seem to strictly be a Gray Knight thing. I've never seen them or anything like them anywhere else. Unless you plan on making a Gray Knight attachment... but it should probably lay in the weapon upgrades section of the wargear if it gets added in. (And knowing the guy, he's probably already thought about it, and it's probably going to sneak into the final version (or next revision).)
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Post by: Lord Magnus
With a grey knight attachment you could have GK libbies shooting, teleporting, giving a cover save, and bringing in reinforcements all in the same turn
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Post by: mrblacksunshine_1978
one of my good buddy, had Forgeworld asking him to sent his Eldar Codex, that he design, alot of fluff. Now we are both are working on the next Demon Codex as well.
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Post by: Lord Magnus
Oh and in addition to the OTT close combat, you can also have a melta gun that fires 3 flame templates a turn at s10 with the lance rule and TW, for 50 points..
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Post by: Tesunie
Asherian Command wrote:K thanks. You might also want to put in a Crusade Chapter thing where they can take Crusade Squads. Or they can take up to 20 Tactical marines for one squad but have to give up a few things.
I think (and correct me if I'm wrong) he actually gives you a little free space there. I don't think he gives you any squad cap other than what you place on there. He feels that the point cost would help balance anything like that out. I would (as myself) place my own limits upon the squad if it could get that large. Like for example, the Black Templar can get a squad up to 20 man strong, but half would be normal marines (with normal tactical options if I recall right, though they can just take two weapon upgrades no mater their squad size) and the other half are scout marines. If you don't own the Black Templar codex, maybe you should take a look into it? It's actually an interesting codex to look through.
(I have GOT to stop adding my two cents worth in...  )
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Post by: Rocketmike
Ah, I only referenced the Chain axes because I played a friend recently and that's what he said they did. took his word for it as I am ignorant about the rules and wargear offered to most armies. Even if that isn't what they actually do, it could be an effect for custom weapons. Same with the initiative upgrades.
The Black Templar allow Up to the 10 Initiates (Marines) and any number of Neophytes (similar to scouts) up to the number of Initiates you have. (You can never have more neophytes than initiates)
Speaking of Black Templar, Any chance an Emperor's Champion and options could be thrown into the pdf? I understand the pdf itself is a guidline and not actually set rules for creating a Chapter.
Lord Magnus: Your character is a little OP but he didn't completely adhere to the guidlines either. Custom weapons may only have 3 improvements to them and one disadvantage. Yours has 5 improvements to it. If people want to, the guidelines can be abused, but hopefully they are used for more fun than anything.
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Post by: Rennoc215
This looks handy!
*Click*
Dowloading...
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Post by: Lord Magnus
Ahhh I see, thanks, this means they can't be extremely OTT, thats good
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Post by: Tesunie
Brother Zero: Unique Elites Dreadnought choice
Dreadnought: 20 pts (+20 for correction for DA Codex)
Dreadnought adjustment total: 40 pts
Assault Cannon: 30 pts
Dreadnought Close Combat Weapon: 40 pts
With Built-in Stormbolter: 5 pts
Siege Armor (Reinforced Structure): 30 pts
Venerable: 60 points
Smoke Launchers and Search Lights: 5 pts
Total points: 215
Brother Zero
WS- 5
BS- 5
S- 6
Front- 13
Side- 13
Rear- 10
I- 4
A- 2
Wargear:
Assault Cannon
Dreadnought Close Combat Weapon with Built-in Stormbolter
Smoke Launchers
Searchlights
Special Rules:
Venerable
Dedicated Troop Transport Options:
Drop Pod
Stormraven Gunship (for codex limitations of 0-1 and only if Brother Zero is selected in the army. Taken from Gray Knights codex.)
Silverwing Chapter aided the Gray Knights in defense of a planet from a Daemon incursion. Agreeing to be mindwiped after the events, the Silverwings went to battle beside the honorable Gray Knights.
During the struggle, a single pass defended by Brother Zero and his Tactical Squad came under attack. With no where to go for cover, and a demon army in front of them, Brother Zero and his squad of loyal and brave marines held their ground. Hords of Daemon Blood Letters swarmed them, but they held strong. Then, over the din of battle, the mighty roar of a Greater Daemon could be heard.
Soon, the squad found themselves pinned, a greater daemon of korn, the mighty Bloodthirster was upon them. Still they held their ground.
By the time Gray Knight support arrived, the fighting was over. Atop the corpse of the greater daemon stood only one battle brother, badly mauled and near death. For his honorious fight and stalwart courage in battle, Brother Zero was interred within the body of a special Gray Knight Dreadnought, specially designed to be lifted by Stormraven Gunships for extended periods of time. Then, for their aid, which the Gray Knights would have lost the fight without, the Silverwing Chapter was also gifted with a Stormraven Gunship, to go with the honored Brother Zero.
Though none know the true story as to why Brother Zero was interred inside the Dreadnought body, few can question the courage he has continued to show. Since his internment, he has continued to fight not only the enemies of the Imperium, but has also crushed many more daemons, each time gaining experience, but loosing memories of each fight.
(Might decrease the armor back to 12 but make him immune to melta effects like the Stormraven. After all, he is made to actually be held by the Stormraven even in reentry. Opinions?)
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Post by: Rocketmike
There are very specific and rare occasions where a Marine (usually just the Chapter Masters) are not required to be mind-wiped. I also like the thought about making him immune to Melta and simply armor 12 instead. The Venerable ability already makes him pretty tough.
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Post by: Asherian Command
I wish there was an option to redo the Legion of the Damned thing and instead make them like the legion of the damned but make them less sucky.
This codex though is pretty damn good and i will use it. Thank you for a wonderful resource.
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Post by: Marik Law
Lord Magnus wrote:I am wondering what the points limit is.. because from what I see it is very easy to make OTT Characters.
Nevermind, I see 300, but looking at the character above, it is only 290, I would actually suggest a drop to 250 or 275 limit, just so they can't squeeze QUITE so much in there, because this example would crush nearly any model in the game at CC, definitely any marine. (nice counter to mephiston though )
About the points cap questions: yes, the final version will have a points cap. Heroes will not be able to exceed 300 points (with the new way creation is handled it is not that hard to get to 250+ points) and each individual unit entry will have its own points limitation. Additionally, created units will also have mandatory force organization positions depending on their movement type and/or points cost.
The points values are have been adjusted for the final version. It's going to be harder to cram so much stuff into that 300 points. Basically you'll be able to create something Mephiston-level on a Captain-type hero (types have changed as well to make things a bit easier), with artificer armour but without special rules or any unique wargear, would cost 190 points. Special Rules and Unique Wargear are going to be costed more appropriately in the Final version, so 110 points isn't going to be a lot to work with.
Lord Magnus wrote:Oh and in addition to the OTT close combat, you can also have a melta gun that fires 3 flame templates a turn at s10 with the lance rule and TW, for 50 points..
This has been fixed in the final version. You could still create something like this, but it'll cost a rediculous amount of points and would probably be vehicle mounted only.
Rocketmike wrote:The Black Templar allow Up to the 10 Initiates (Marines) and any number of Neophytes (similar to scouts) up to the number of Initiates you have. (You can never have more neophytes than initiates)
Speaking of Black Templar, Any chance an Emperor's Champion and options could be thrown into the pdf? I understand the pdf itself is a guidline and not actually set rules for creating a Chapter.
Both of these options are do-able in the final version. I made specific note to add Unique Independent Characters and the ability to remove Scout Squads from your army to have them be attached to a new Space Marine squad.
Rocketmike wrote:Lord Magnus: Your character is a little OP but he didn't completely adhere to the guidlines either. Custom weapons may only have 3 improvements to them and one disadvantage. Yours has 5 improvements to it. If people want to, the guidelines can be abused, but hopefully they are used for more fun than anything.
This will also be solved in the final version, the rules for it will be much more straight forward and much less able to be abused.
Asherian Command wrote:I wish there was an option to redo the Legion of the Damned thing and instead make them like the legion of the damned but make them less sucky.
This codex though is pretty damn good and i will use it. Thank you for a wonderful resource.
I've been thinking about doing a new section for Cursed/Damned, Renegade, etc units, but haven't figured out a good way to do it yet.
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Post by: Tesunie
Me again, was just wondering, will you have points and options for armor upgrades, like Iron Halos, Storm Shields, Artificer Armor, Terminator Armor, etc?
Also, adding in Daemon weapons might be interesting, even if it is a Chaos Marine weapon. A prize perhaps? (I have an HQ that's going to have one, but I'm just going to see if I can take points from Chaos Marine codex. And yes, I know you haven't released the final version. I'm just getting a head start and will adjust points to new standard when you are finished.)
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Post by: Marik Law
Tesunie wrote:Me again, was just wondering, will you have points and options for armor upgrades, like Iron Halos, Storm Shields, Artificer Armor, Terminator Armor, etc?
Also, adding in Daemon weapons might be interesting, even if it is a Chaos Marine weapon. A prize perhaps? (I have an HQ that's going to have one, but I'm just going to see if I can take points from Chaos Marine codex. And yes, I know you haven't released the final version. I'm just getting a head start and will adjust points to new standard when you are finished.)
Yes, you will be able to upgrade (or even downgrade) armour and can add any Special Rules or Wargear, including those that provide Invulnerable Saves.
The Daemonblades are gathered by certain chapters who claim to be safeguarding them or other similar excuses.
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Post by: Remulus
Thing is with this, no one would take "take the fight to the enemy" over "trust your battle brothers"
This is because, with both of them, you get 2 attacks in cc. But with the latter one you get to keep your bolters!
Overall, I think what you wrote is great, you just may want to even out that one thing!
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Post by: Rocketmike
Is there an estimated date for the final version? Also, is there any way we can help other than pointing out possible imbalances and additions to gear? I feel like we are more saying "Hey, I'd like you to add this," than we are actually helping.
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Post by: Marik Law
Remulus wrote:Thing is with this, no one would take "take the fight to the enemy" over "trust your battle brothers"
This is because, with both of them, you get 2 attacks in cc. But with the latter one you get to keep your bolters!
Overall, I think what you wrote is great, you just may want to even out that one thing!
Thanks! Will be corrected in the next update.
Rocketmike wrote:Is there an estimated date for the final version? Also, is there any way we can help other than pointing out possible imbalances and additions to gear? I feel like we are more saying "Hey, I'd like you to add this," than we are actually helping.
Combat Practice/Mutation suggestions, Chapter Tactics suggestions, general ideas, suggestions for special rules or weapon effects from other Codex books (just lemme know which you wanna see), even bits of lore for chapters which could be converted into something for the Codex. Basically every little bit helps. I could always use good quality Games-Workshop space marine pictures, I have a few but a good chunk of them are terrible quality.
As for estimated time, hopefully by the end of the month. I'm pretty much done the non-weapon Unique Wargear section, just working on the points costs for the Unique Melee Weapons section.
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Post by: Rocketmike
Perhaps the Trust Your Battle Brothers rule would allow you to use your Bolter and still assault after firing. They dont get the extra attack, but it is different and benefits a melee focused army. Or perhaps they can charge after shooting any Rapid Fire weapon?
For ranged weapon upgrades/modifications: Grey Knight Purgation squads have astral aim. Perhaps this ability can be added for weapons that become "homing" or have x-ray or heat seaking sights that let them see enemies even though they are not in line of sight.
For mutations, what about speed? Some kind of mutation may have increased their reaction time and given them a bonus to initiative, but their lighter skeletons or whatever have also made them more brittle, giving them -1 toughness or unable to take the feel no pain special rules. Also, a mutation that makes them faster could mean they get to move an extra d3 inches in their movement phase, or that they roll 2d6 for running during the shooting phase and take the highest. I'm not sure the fluff works for the mutation of superior Strength. I would think moving from a high gravity planet to a low one would increase movement speed instead of slow it down. Kind of like adding weights to a workout makes you move slower but when you take them off you can move faster. I believe the Mark of Slaanesh confers a +1 initiative so it's not unheard of.
Close Combat Weapons: Additional mods could include requiring a model to re-roll successful invulnerable saves rather than ignoring them completely. And my personal favorite that I thought of...
What about a weapon that gets +1 attack (made at initiative 1) for each unsaved wound it makes up to a maximum of the models base attack value? I was going to use a rule like this for my homebrew inquisitor. The idea was that his weapon was so huge and he swung it so hard that it cut completely through one enemy and into another in a single swing. No idea what a fair value for it would be though.
A good place to look for pictures might be on a site like deviantart.com but you would want to get the artists permissions to use the pictures. I've seen some pretty good stuff on there.
Edit: Had a suggestion to increase range of shooting attacks... then I saw it was already there...
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Post by: Tesunie
Well... seen as you mentioned it... A point value for the Imperial Jetbike (even if it comes with no weapons on it) would be great. Then I could remake Samuel a little better. (Maybe look into Eldar codex for points on their jetbikes, keeping in mind that you don't get the extra movement of Eldar Jetbikes? It's a +30 point upgrade for Edlar, so I figured +25 points would be a good estamate for imperial jetbikes with Twin-linked Bolters as a base weapon on it. Eldar Jetbikes have twin-linked Shuriken catapults on them, same strength and assault 1?)
As I said, I want to make a heavily influenced by DA codex.
Of course, these are suggestions, nothing more. But I think you already know that by now. (I'm starting to feel like I might be getting annoying. If so... let me know. I'm just excited is all.)
17923
Post by: Asherian Command
With this Chapter creator Rules I made this
Templars
WS BS S T W A LD SV
Templar 4 4 4 4 1 3 10 +2
Templar Paladin 4 4 4 4 1 3 10 +2
*Templars are rare and you may only take 2 squads at anytime.*
Cost 210
Composition
1 Templar Paladin
4 Templars
Unit Type:
Jump Infantry
Special Rules
And they Shall Know no fear
Stubborn
Bloodlust
Counter Attack
Combat Squads
Furious Charge
Wargear:
Ancient Armor (+2 Save)
Storm Bolter (Inbuilt do not interfer with combat)
Power Weapon (Templars)
Frag and Krak Grenades
Master Crafted Relic Blade (Paladin)
Jump Packs
Dedicated Transports:
May Take a Drop Pod for Free.
Options:
May Take an Additional 2 Templars for 35 Points each
.
May replace power weapons for Relic Blades for 15 pts or replace all power weapons for Thunderhammers.
.
The Paladin CANNOT replace his relic blade.
Paladin may take an Astrates Grenade Launcher for +10 pts.
I don't know about you but thats what i got from this but oh well.
The point is this thing actually works. Its Approved.
But anyway, you need a mutation that gives speed and one that gives initative. Because my chapter has blood lust wait what?
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Post by: Rocketmike
Eldar catapult is 12" range, str 4 ap5 assault 2.
Autarch takes the jetbike at +30pts
Warlocks technically get one at +20 pts
Guardians normally cost 8 and their jetbike equivalents cost 22, so for them it technically costs a mere 14 pts.
The more powerful the character/model, the more it costs to take upgrades like bikes, as is reflected with weapons in the chapter creator.
Edit: redid some math that was awfully wrong. Must have been tired.
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Post by: Marik Law
After making this post I will be updating my first entry to allow people to track my progress a bit better.
Some updates for everyone as what to expect from the final version...
Easier to understand rules and a much better, more visually appealing, and less confusing layout.
Ability to create unique non-Hero Independent Character units, including Emperor's Champions.
Ability to take Jet Bikes and other specialized forms of transportation.
After much thought and deliberation, Trust Your Battle Brothers has been removed in favor of Take The Fight To Them. Trust Your Battle Brothers was just becoming way too good for a free ability.
New types of Combat Practices and Mutations!
New Unique Unit types, including Beasts!
New, optional ways to create Chapters to add even more balance to the system, such as a system similar to the Trait System found in the last iteration of Codex Space Marines.
Example Chapters section in the Final Release (will not be in the Final Alpha version, which will be the next one I'm releasing) including: Salamanders, Imperial Fists, Raven Guard, White Scars, Iron Hands, and more! I will definitely be needing help with this one the Final Alpha version is up.
Much, much more!
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Post by: Rocketmike
edit: Removed post. Didn't seem right to have such a huge post about my own chapter in this thread. It may show up elsewhere. Carry on.
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Post by: Marik Law
I have a challenge for everyone:
I need people to go through all of the official Chapters that have not had rules (either in a Codex or an Index Astartes article) and go through their combat doctrines and/or history to find any kind of deviance in their tactics or force organization. If you find any deviance post what it is, in brief, as a reply to this thread. I want to make sure I have everything covered for Combat Practices & Deviations (what the section is now called) and for Chapter Tactics for chapters which have already been commented or delved upon by Games-Workshop or Forge World.
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Post by: Asherian Command
Sure.
Salamanders
Only 7 companies, many many marines each company and 1 scout company as well.
All of them basically have master crafted melta guns, lots of flamers.
Vulkan He'stan.
Iron Hands
Lots of Bionics.
Brotherhoods not companies.
White Scars
Same thing, Master of the Hunt leads extra forces into battle.
Crimson Fists
149 First company veterans.
under strength though >.>
Had an Emperors Champion.
Exorcists
3 extra scout companies.
Daemon Stern Guard squads (meant to kill daemons, are basically grey knights for space marines.)
Companies are even more elite.
Mantis Warriors
Have Mantis Riding units.
have space marines with sniper rifles.
Scouts are basically Space marines.
Executioners
Instead of Chaplains they have Death Speakers, which are chaplains, have 3 per a company.
Fire Angels
Have Specialized units
Fervant believers in the Imperial creed, they do not revere their ancestral primarch (Roboute Guilliman) as most chapters do, believing this to be a form of idolatry. They tend to rely on 'basic' Imperial technology and codex equipment, such as rhinos and predators, while their 1st company is mostly deployed as Sternguard squads rather than terminators.
NovaMarine
Often thought of as a fleet-based Chapter, the Novamarines still retain Honourum as their Homeworld. But because they swore to defend the Ultima Segmentum at their inception, they looked to expanding their fleet resources significantly. As a result, the Novamarines spend most of their time ranging through Imperial space, watching over the territory they have chosen to safeguard and responding to any Imperial call for aid. Their quick reaction times and willingness to unquestioningly help defend the Imperium have resulted in the Novamarines developing a record of being one of the first forms of aid other Space Marine chapters receive should they ask for it, perhaps most famously in recent times being their defence of Obsidia and the resultant honour-debt sworn to them by the Sable Swords chapter.8
Novamarines companies are often spread across the segmentum - or further - but the chapter does not allow this distance to result in a deterioration of their traditions and philosophies. Their adherence to the past is such that their heraldry and organisational markings are much the same as they were originally codified at the Second Founding. This of course means that they are very similar to those of the Ultramarines, and the chapter as a whole can be comfortably compared to the Ultramarines in most matters. 8
This attention to the details of the past also mean that the Novamarines have been able to maintain much of their original chapter armoury in excellent condition. As a result they are able to field their entire 1st Company in Tactical Dreadnought Armour should they so wish, as well as deploy a wide variety of Astartes-pattern vehicles and equipment, as well as significant fleet elements including a (relatively) newly commissioned Strike Cruiser gifted to them by the Adeptus Mechanicus in reward for the securing of STC materials from the Space Hulk Death of Integrity.8
The Novamarines also have a notable cadre of Deathwatch veterans in their ranks; their experiences purging xenos and proud history of swift, just actions make them a favourite chapter for the Inquistion to draw on for Deathwatch Kill-Teams. The returned Deathwatch marines still have access to any arms and equipment they drew while in Inquisition service, marking them out amidst their brothers.
The Librarians of the Novamarines are a notable exception to those proscribed in the Codex Astartes. Precisely how the Librarium functions is unknown, though the atypical nature of its operation is said to be somehow comparable to that of the Rune Priests of the Space Wolves, the Storm Seers of the White Scars, and the Librarians of the Crimson Shades. 7
Howling Griffons
The events of 220.M38 has set the Chapter on a dangerous road. Upon being raised to the rank of full Battle-brother, each warrior takes an oath to avenge the fallen whenever possible and as a Chapter the Howling Griffons have sworn to destroy Periclitor whatever the cost, even if this means going into the depths of hell itself9.
Due to their glorious battle records and a near permanent campaigning status, they have gained the right to recruit initiates from several different worlds, including Dennar IV, in order to counteract the high levels of attrition that they face. As their main point of recruitment Mancora is kept in a constant state of warfare in order to provide them with a solid base of well disciplined initiates. The high birth rate of psykers on Mancora has also led to a high number of powerful Battle-Psykers within their ranks.9
The standard Howling Griffons colour scheme is the quartered red and yellow armour displayed above.
During activities on Khymara during the Badab War, the Howling Griffons wore approved Night World camo which combines black armour with a grey chest eagle. The shoulder pads are quartered red/yellow with grey rims and Sergeants wore grey helmets. Khymara camo for Terminators was pure black with the right shoulder bearing the red/yellow quartered livery. The Terminator's Power Fists were also painted red.9
Raptors
The Raptors follow their progenitors, the Raven Guard, in adhering to the broad organizational patterns and provisions laid down in the standard Codex Astartes, but as a Chapter, the Raptors see the Codex as a highly effective and proven set of strategic and operational guidelines rather than inviolable dogma to be obeyed without question. As a result, they maintain a high degree of flexibility in their deployments and structures.6
Combat Doctrine
Although ranged hit and run tactics seem to be preferred over close quarters fighting, the encouragement of independent thought within all levels of the Chapter means it is not uncommon for combat methods to differ widely either when operating in isolation or in concert with each other (the former being more common). This independent spirit allows for the most appropriate application of resources and/or tactics for a given mission ranging from the use of warzone specific camouflage to ad hoc unit composition and even working with local forces to ensure success.6
Equipment
Apart from the equipment found within a typical Astartes armoury the Raptors are known to make extensive use of scouts and also keep a sizeable contingent of all Land Speeder variants.6
Minotaurs
The Minotaurs appear to have no particularly distinctive organisational facets on the surface, and are only really notable for two somewhat unusual factors. The first is that they seem to prefer to operate in Chapter-strength whenever possible, and do not appear to engage in small-scale campaigns. The second is that they are supremely well-equipped and seem able to replace losses of both materiel and personnel with little difficulty.1d
Because of this, the numbers of Minotaurs are reckoned to be almost always around full-strength. They do not seem to have any difficulty in recruiting initiates, and appear to have an indoctrination and conversion process that is remarkably swift. Imperial observers during the Antigonis campaign noted that the transition from neophyte to Scout to full Marine in the Chapter was remarkably fast, and also highlighted the heavy use of hypno-indoctrination and neuro-cerebral surgery involved, as well as the monitoring and 'refeshing' of these techniques in full Marines by the Apothecaries of the Chapter.1d
From a purely technical point of view, the Minotaurs are superbly equipped with Space Marine arms and armour, including almost full stocks of Tactical Dreadnought Armour and Mk.8 Power Armour.1d
Carchadons
The Carcharodons roughly follow the organizational tenets laid down in the Codex Astartes, but otherwise showed considerable variation with regards to tactics. In particular, their preference for shock assaults and close combat made them similar to the Black Templars, at least in the eyes of the Fire Angels marines that accompanied them during the length of the Badab campaign. The forces observed during the war show that, on the surface, the Carcharodons were deployed similarly to what might be expected of a Codex Battle Company, although it was noted that it was augmented by an auxiliary force of Scouts and dedicated squads of Terminator-armored Veterans.8e
Although the Chapter seemed to maintain a sizable amount of armored vehicles, the Carcharodons as a whole seemed to prefer infantry-based strategies, relying on the battle-prowess of its Marines to carry the day. Lightning assaults presaged by reconnaissance by small scouting forces was commonly observed, with surprise often the key factor in carrying the attack through. When resistance proves too heavy or the reaction of the enemy too swift, the Chapter's forces often quickly withdraw, to avoid heavy losses and, more importantly, to strike at another direction. This is repeated again and again until a weakness is eventually found, upon which the full brunt of the assault forces are brought to bear to bring the encounter to a swift end.8d
The Chapter's armory was noted to consist mostly of old-style suits of Power Armor, particularly the Mark-V Heresy Pattern, and weaponry. The Carcharodons' complement of Terminator Armour in particular showed extensive modification to keep them combat worthy.8e
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Post by: Rocketmike
All of the following info was taken from http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki and has some thoughts of my own added. I'm also not sure if you wanted some of the Chaos Warband stuff as well, so I threw in what I could anyway if at least for ideas.
Black Dragons - "Ossmodula zygote has mutated, producing bony crests on their heads and blades from the forearm and elbow. In a similar way to the Death Company, those with these abnormalities join a separate unit, known as the Dragon Claws." Mutation that adds +1 Attack?
Space Sharks - "When resistance proves too heavy or the reaction of the enemy too swift, the Chapter's forces often quickly withdraw, to avoid heavy losses and, more importantly, to strike at another direction." Perhaps they can have an ability similar to the Eldar Swooping Hawk 'Skyleap' that lets them leave the table and come back on somewhere else? Swooping hawks do it with their wings though where these marines do so by retreating and coming from a new direction. What if when they step off the table, they go into reserves and then come in on the next turn from a random table edge?
The Cleaved - The Cleaved are a warband of Chaos Space Marines. Oil-like blood constantly oozes from the joints in their power armour. These marines are known to have a high threshold for pain. Feel no pain for entire army? We already have bionics and FNP for everyone would be too much without a significant points increase. Or just entire army as Toughness 4(5)?
Death Spectres - "A loyal Space Marine chapter of unknown Founding, speculated the 13th Founding. Their gene-seed suffers from a relatively minor genetic mutation: the Melanchromic Organ doesn't work as intended; all Space Marines of this chapter are albinos." It's a mutation... don't know what you could do with it though lol.
Disciples of Caliban - The Chapter fleet houses great reliquaries celebrating the successes of their warriors and their forebears, and each Company has several Relic Bearers who carry these artifacts to war to inspire the battle brethren to the greatest feats of valor.
Doom Warriors - "The Doom Warriors are a Codex Chapter of unknown founding and origin. They have a defect in the Catalepsean Node. Because of this, Doom Warriors Space Marines do not sleep which in turn make them a morose, moody Chapter. This is why they specialize in cleansing campaigns." Extra orbital bombardments?
Emperor's Hawks - "They specialize in jump pack-assisted assaults, followed by squadron-strength units of Land Speeder."
Exorcists - "Test results showed that their adrenaline production tripled and the levels of serotonin dropped drastically. This made the Marines much more aggressive and gave them increased combat effectiveness. Only 1% of the Marines fell to Daemonic infestation again, but the scientists believed they could eradicate the likelihood of this happening. On the basis that their souls are incorruptible and pure, they are effectively invisible to most warp daemons as their souls do not register for the leak of the mortal corruption. Only extremely powerful daemons are able to spot them." Grey Knights that aren't grey Knights? Models occasionally turn to chaos or become possessed?
Fire Lords - "The Fire Lords are a Codex Chapter. The Fire Lords precede assaults with a barrage of incendiary missiles, and hurl themselves at the charred foe before the flames have burnt themselves out. The Fire Lords favored tactic is launching a planetary assault, which begins with incendiary bombardments, and should the defender survive, they only do so to face the Thunderfire Cannons and Land Raider Redeemers and face bombardment and promethium. Then, Tactical Squads will deploy in Drop Pods to bring death to the enemies of the Imperium."
flame Falcons - "...the First Company, who were stationed at the front lines at the fiercest of the fighting, began to immolate. This did not harm the Space Marines, only their foes. The lines were reinforced and when news was reported back that the flames were helping the Space Marines...all of the Flame Falcons began to immolate ..." Best I can think is a mutation that functions similar to the Grey Knight "Cleansing Flame" of the Purifier Squads only perhaps not as powerful. Wounds on a 6 instead of 4 for the whole army?
Flawless Host - "Autopsies made on the corpses of slain warriors have confirmed that the Flawless Host uses an extreme amount of combat stimulants in battle." Once per game a squad can inject combat stimulants and get "-----" bonus for the rest of their turn.
Flesh Eaters - "This chapter was almost labeled heretic because of cannibalistic rites and rituals." The first time a member of a squad dies, the rest of the squad spends the entire turn eating his corpse! No longer hungry, the group fights the rest of the battle in high spirits and are considered Leadership 10 and have the Slow and Purposeful USR because of their stuffed bellies!
Hakanor's reavers - "Hakanor's Reavers are a group of Chaos Space Marines under the leadership of Hakanor, a Daemon Prince formerly known as the Chapter Master Prometian. The armour of these warriors burns with a magical heat, causing it to constantly crack and reform like lava." Something like Bionics or master-crafted armor that re-rolls failed armor saves. Master-crafted armor would have to be crazy expensive I would think. Or the models are immune/resistant to Melta/flame type weapons? The eldar Avatar of Khaine has a molten body that cant be hurt by flamers and melta weapons.
I think I'll stop for now... hope that gets some ideas stirring.
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Post by: Marik Law
I should be finished with the Alpha of the Final Version soon! Wargear is done now all thats left for the Alpha release is Psychic Powers. There are other sections, but they will be done later as they're Alternative Rules and Example Chapters.
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Post by: kenshin620
Digging through Lex, heres what I've found. Dont know how many are applicable though
Aurora Chapter
The Aurora Chapter is a chapter of Space Marines formed from the Ultramarines Legion during the Second Founding. Like all descendants of the Ultramarines, they are strict followers of the Codex Astartes.1 The Aurora Chapter is known for its armored assaults, and as such possesses three times the typical number of Land Raiders and Predators.2a They operate largely in the Ultima Segmentum.2a
More vehicles
Angels of Vengeance
The Angels of Vengeance are a successor Chapter of the Dark Angels. Created during the Second Founding, the Angels of Vengeance have retained the original colours of the Dark Angels, black and jet-black1,2. Regarded as some of the most stubborn fighters of the Imperium of Man these Space Marines risked the future of their chapter many times, by throwing themselves in the most dire situations, and refusing to retreat even when their chance were near to nil4.
Stubborn, possibly fearless
Silver Skulls
The Silver Skulls are a successor Chapter created during the Second Founding and are said to be among the most renowned and honoured chapters of the Second Founding's ranks.2 They have earned a reputation for victory, no matter the odds.8 They claim lineage from the line of the Ultramarines although records are hazy on the matter. Given the number of successor chapters who take their genestock from this great line, however, there is no dispute. 12. The chapter takes its name from its tradition of claiming the heads of their opponents, coating them in silver and then displaying them as trophies of battle in their ships and vaults.10 The entire chapter is deeply superstitious and will never deploy itself into battle without consulting the augury of a chapter Prognosticator to read the fates, which they consider as the projected will of the Emperor. The Silver Skulls have even been known to refuse to go into battle if the auguries come out poor. Prognosticator is the tile of the chapter's Librarians. They are highly revered within the chapter and also function as spiritual guides similar to Chaplains. 10 The Silver Skulls tattoo the skin of their entire bodies in honour markings. The face is the last area to be marked and the right to do so must be earned in battle.10
They love their librarians
Angels of Vigilance
The Angels of Vigilance are a Chapter of Space Marines, which was founded during the Second Founding, supposedly successors of the Dark Angels5. However, they are not listed in the Apocrypha of Davio.4 They have a strong monastic nature. Their Fortress Monastery is a huge orbital dock around the world Pervigilium, just outside the Cadian Gate. The Angels of Vigilance are especially good at fighting the forces of Chaos as they tend to encounter them during every Black Crusade, as they come through the Cadian Gate. Also, due to their proximity to the Eye of Terror, when the Cadian Gate becalms, they can be seen in their ships, moving into the Eye to fight the forces of Chaos in their own territory.4 The entire chapter has never been called up in one go, as each Marine swears an oath never to leave the Fortress Monastery undefended, and each time the chapter is called up, at least one company remains behind.4 Several times their Chapter Masters have failed to heed the calls of the High Lords of Terra, and their loyalty has been called into question by some quarters.4 It is likely that the Angels of Vigilance are at home around the planet Pervigilium as, just following the Horus Heresy, the planet was assaulted by the Dark Angels and the Angels placed a detachment to watch over the ruling caste, lest they stray from the Imperium again.4
They hate chaos (well, so does half the imperium but they probably have experience)
White Consuls
The White Consuls are a Successor Chapter of the Ultramarines Legion, and are one of the 20 Astartes Praeses chapters. They are listed in the Mythos Angelica Mortis as being one of the 20 Space Marine chapters assigned to guarding the Eye of Terror region. Their colour scheme is the reverse of the Ultramarines one, replacing the blue with the white and the white with the blue, this means for instance that the Veteran consuls have a blue helmet. The shoulder trim still displays the company colour as per Codex Astartes dictat2. Unusually the White Consuls have two chapter masters, while one leads the chapter in its duties guarding the Eye of Terror, the other resides on the chapter's homeworld of Sabatine.5 Also unusually the White Consuls seem to worship the Emperor as a god and seem to be part of the Imperial Cult, unlike most other Astartes Chapters.6 The White Consuls govern several protectorate systems one of which was the Boros System, which they ruled from the Kronos star fort (the largest space station in Segmentum Obscurus) until the entire system was corrupted and the Kronos star fort destroyed by the dark crusade of the Word Bearers and the subsequent invasion of the Necrons, under the Undying One. Proconsul Cassius Ostorius & Coadjutor Gaius Aquilius seemed to be the only two Astartes involved with the governorship however.7 Every battle brother has to serve as a Coadjutor in the years after rising from the rank of neophyte. A selection of veterans are also chosen to act as Proconsuls, becoming a Proconsul is a necessary prerequisite to becoming a sergeant or captain.7
2 Chapter Masters, weird
48693
Post by: Tesunie
Just if anyone is interested, what I've come up with so far for my own Chapter, based heavily on the Dark Angels chapter. They are a Successor chapter of the Dark Angels after all...
(I've personally updated some of my points to better reflect what already exists in my DA codex. So some things like Land Speeders and Dreadnoughts are adjusted to the standard points for my codex and then altered from there.)
And when he's finished with the final version, I'll just update this to match his points, probably once more adjusting some parts to make it match the points cost in my Dark Angels codex.
Suggestions would be liked. And I do have to say, some of this was written by memory... so I expect some mistakes to be in here.
(It's also not finished too.)
1
| Filename |
Silverwing Chapter.rtf |
Download
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| Description |
Silverwing Chapter, Wings of Vengance |
| File size |
20 Kbytes
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Post by: helgrenze
One ccw weapon option I would be interested in seeing is "on a 'to hit' (or maybe 'to wound') roll of 6, strikes as a thunderhammer."
And I don't recall the special rules for Raven Guard but I remember them having some.
48693
Post by: Tesunie
Rocketmike wrote:All of the following info was taken from http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki and has some thoughts of my own added. I'm also not sure if you wanted some of the Chaos Warband stuff as well, so I threw in what I could anyway if at least for ideas.
Disciples of Caliban - The Chapter fleet houses great reliquaries celebrating the successes of their warriors and their forebears, and each Company has several Relic Bearers who carry these artifacts to war to inspire the battle brethren to the greatest feats of valor.
Doom Warriors - "The Doom Warriors are a Codex Chapter of unknown founding and origin. They have a defect in the Catalepsean Node. Because of this, Doom Warriors Space Marines do not sleep which in turn make them a morose, moody Chapter. This is why they specialize in cleansing campaigns." Extra orbital bombardments?
Fire Lords - "The Fire Lords are a Codex Chapter. The Fire Lords precede assaults with a barrage of incendiary missiles, and hurl themselves at the charred foe before the flames have burnt themselves out. The Fire Lords favored tactic is launching a planetary assault, which begins with incendiary bombardments, and should the defender survive, they only do so to face the Thunderfire Cannons and Land Raider Redeemers and face bombardment and promethium. Then, Tactical Squads will deploy in Drop Pods to bring death to the enemies of the Imperium."
Flawless Host - "Autopsies made on the corpses of slain warriors have confirmed that the Flawless Host uses an extreme amount of combat stimulants in battle." Once per game a squad can inject combat stimulants and get "-----" bonus for the rest of their turn.
Want my opinion?
Disciples of Caliban would be able to bring in relics, which make units around them fearless so long as the relic holder is alive. Probably an upgrade to command squads or maybe Veterans too. Presume a Dark Angel codex feel for this chapter. (I believe they already have this in their codex, but I can't recall as I've never used it myself.)
Doom Warriors I don't think would get orbital bombardments from the description you gave. Maybe a favor to flamers and template weapons...?
Fire Lords would probably have an option to take orbital barrages that strike in the first turn for +X points. Maybe even something similar to the Thrunderstrike option that Gunships get in Apocalypse? Like, before a Drop pod deepstrikes, place a template where it would land which would be a single orbital strike. The drop pod lands in the center of the template, moving to the side as little as possible if there is still anything underneath when it lands like a normal drop pod would. (I actually like the sounds of that.)
Flawless Host would probably have the Combat drugs special rule like some Dark Eldar models. They gain some small benefit randomly determined at the start of the game, and it stays will them for the whole game.
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Post by: Rocketmike
Oh, I didn't quote the par tthat mattered for the rules lol. Anyway, the Doom warriors are apparently called upon on a regular basis when a planet needs to undergo Exterminatus. If they have the kind of fire power to annihilate entire planets on a regular basis, surely an orbital bombardment isn't that big a deal.
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Post by: Tesunie
Ah. Makes more sense. Maybe if they just have more models that can order in an Orbital Barbardment... but do they really even fight planetside if they are usually doing Exterminatus?
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Post by: Che-Vito
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Post by: Rocketmike
Well, their specialty is supposed to be cleansing so I suppose they fight planetside with the flamers and such when the planet is still salvageable, but often times are required to perform exterminatus. Where this would bother other chapters, I guess they just don't care.
I can't help but think of that chapter being comprised of Emo's suffering from insomnia. I thought I remembered there being a minimum requirement of sleep imposed in order to prevent abuse of the catalepsean node which would result in the SM going "crazy" kind of like a normal human would. Specifically I think I remember reading a story about a Librarian who went too long without sleeping and started hearing voices that he thought were his own but it was actually the work of Chaos...
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Post by: Asherian Command
Great to see people are helping this guy out.
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Post by: Rocketmike
Personally, I love this kind of stuff. The customization is the biggest part of 40k for me, and something like this is exactly what I have been looking for to create my own unique but fair chapter. If I can't use it with anyone but friends, so be it. It's making me rethink building that GK army that I already have a ton of old models for and actually building my own chapter, which might use a lot of GK models anyway.
And lets face it, most of us like to see it when our opinions and ideas make it into somebody else's work. I'll have some more chapter tactics/mutations/variations up in a bit....
Automatically Appended Next Post: Here are some more Chapters and some nifty info about them from http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki that might be useful/inspiring.
Imperial Fists - "Importantly, however, the Chapter retains its previous special ability in siege warfare, urban warfare and defense, although preference is given to aggressive rather than defensive options." After choosing sides, you get to place some trenches, sandbags or emplacements anywhere on the table so long as it is more than 12 inches away from your enemy's deployment zone?
Invaders - "The Invaders excel in planetary subjugation, crushing resistance through massed aerial and orbital attack. Their tactics require reliance on Scout and Tactical squads to secure landing zones and staging areas, while squads of Vanguard veterans and Terminators crush centres of resistance." Tactical Marines have access to the Scout USR for so many points, or just have it? Also the ability to purchase extra Orbital Bombardments makes sense.
Iron Hands - "Additionally, the Iron Hands are infamous for their extensive use of bionics... going so far that there are rumors of some battle brothers being wholly mechanical. The Iron Hands also eschew the traditional office of Chaplain in favor of their Iron Fathers, specially trained Techmarines who serve to protect the faith of their brethren." Nothing not already in your Chapter creator, but these guys love bionics and tech marines.
Iron Snakes- "The Chapter armory is able to issue combat shields, warblades (short-swords) and sealances (javelin-type fighting spears) to all brothers, enabling them to close up and use phalanx (shield-wall) style tactics. The Iron Snakes are unique in their tactical squads in the fact that all squads are attached with an Apothecary unlike other codex Astartes who are assigned one per company. " This sounds cool imo. It would be cool if there could be some kind of bonus for the squad staying in base to base contact as they move across the field to represent the benefit of phalanx style tactics. Increasing their INV save would make sense but that would be a 2+ invulnerable save and that sounds crazy. It does make them very vulnerable to template weapons though. Maybe increasing their toughness would be more fair? They also have an apothecary in every squad.
Lamentors - "In combat the Lamenters favour shock assault and close air-support tactics, and are used to performing drop-assaults and boarding actions." They also dont appear to suffer from the Black Rage as their founders, the Blood Angels, do. They are considered a cursed chapter however as apparently they always have terrible accidents or something. I'm thinking that when an opponent rolls on the vehicle damage chart, you can make them re-roll but must add +1 to the result and must accept that result. It kind of tests your luck that way.
Mantis Warriors - "The Geneseed of the Mantis Warriors has a flaw - it does not function properly with the Preomnor implant. As such when a Mantis Warrior sets himself into a certain frame of mind the Prenomor gland secretes a potent neuro-toxin that permanently...alters the marine's sense of space and time, increasing his reaction rate to near precognitive states; it also increases his strength to a great extent... the change is irreversible and the marine's sight becomes tunneled to the point of not noticing anything that is not a target."
The Mentors - "The Mentors have an extraordinary capacity for learning, particularly of military matters. Because of this, the chapter's main pursuit is perfecting the fusion between science, the art of war and military technology.The Mentors do not engage in campaigns or wars as other chapters do, but instead 'loan' squads of Marines to other Imperial military bodies. Squads of Mentors may be found fighting alongside the Imperial Guard or even other chapters throughout the galaxy. The basic rationale behind squad loaning is that the Mentors are able to extract the maximum amount of information regarding the fighting prowess and techniques of just about any Imperial military organisation. 'Loaned' squads returning to chapter HQ bring with them an invaluable record which is without parallel in the galaxy."
That's it for now. More to come later.
33997
Post by: Battle_Brother_Bruening
I have a question with the mutations. I am working on my own chapter, the War Bears, a more codex compliant SW successor chapter. In fluff they exhibit bear mutations like higher strength (I am currently using you superior strength mutation) but they also have a keener sense of smell or equal sense to that of a SW. Should I work that out on my own or a rule to have two but before game roll to decide between the two to use just one in game?
47044
Post by: Rocketmike
Seeing as the Chapter Creator is a guideline and unofficial, I'd go ahead and take both but maybe increase the point cost of everything that has both rules by a point or something. acute Senses is a minor benefit really, or at least I would think that it is.
Perhaps to that end, Mutations should be split into two different categories. You can have 2 mutations. Two Minor Mutations or a minor and a major mutation, but never two major mutations. Only reason I wouldnt do it that way is because simpler is better and the benefits are already split into combat practices and mutations.
6372
Post by: Marik Law
I've gotten quite a few new ideas for Combat Practices, Deviations (formerly Mutations), and Chapter Tactics from the stuff you guys have been bringing up for already established chapters. Keep up the good work and keep the ball rolling!
Battle_Brother_Bruening wrote:I have a question with the mutations. I am working on my own chapter, the War Bears, a more codex compliant SW successor chapter. In fluff they exhibit bear mutations like higher strength (I am currently using you superior strength mutation) but they also have a keener sense of smell or equal sense to that of a SW. Should I work that out on my own or a rule to have two but before game roll to decide between the two to use just one in game?
I thought long and hard about it and Acute Senses/Night Vision is now a Combat Practice instead of a Deviation (Mutation), so feel free to take both for the time being.
48693
Post by: Tesunie
(Edit: Just going to add in what I happen to notice is not in the last edition. If you have added them in already, great! Ignore this post. Just trying to be helpful and make this as good as we can.) Oh, I noticed your old version didn't have drop pods. I know it isn't something that is likely to get customized, but I figured you might want to still add it into the guide. There was something else I wanted to make sure was going to be in, as it would be rather standard for space marines, but I can't recall it... I'll post it up later if I recall it. Okay? Automatically Appended Next Post: Heavy Armour upgrades, along with any other upgrades for vehicles. (So you don't have to constantly look into the space marine codex for points and stuff.) Also, stating what vehicles come with what (or just have them all come with no wargear) could be helpful as well. Took me a while to realize that the Landspeeder CAME WITH the heavy bolter...  Automatically Appended Next Post: Flame Storm Cannons are also currently missing. Automatically Appended Next Post: Points for giving things deep strike rules maybe too? Like the Blood Angels and their abilities to Deep Strike Landraiders and the like...? Ordinance Barrage special rules should have a point as well so you could upgrade someone with it. Example, maybe a member of the command squad could be upgraded to commander of Ordinance? I figure about +25 points for it, seen as that seems to be the only real difference between a captain (company master) and a chapter master... (being a once per game effect like the normal rule as well. Maybe pay additional points to make it once per turn like the Ordnance master from the IG codex? Might be a bit too powerful for SMs though. Cyclonic Missile Launcher is also currently missing. (Unless you just counted it as two Missile launchers.) Melta Bombs (+5 points) and Granades are also not in the old version. Venerable Status upgrade without a change to WS and BS. +20 points? ( DA codex)
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Post by: L33TFROG
My addition to the list of things that make chapters unique using a mix of Lexicannum and imperial armor 9 sorry for any repetitivety
Novamarines
Due to their work guarding shipping lanes near the maelstrom they have a very powerful fleet
Raptors
Favor hit and run tactics, but promote independently choosing combat doctrines
Red Scorpions
Are insane about gene-seed purity apothecary's replace seargents as their combat tactics on Commande culln
Revilers
use deamon weapons
Sons of Medusa
place an unusual reliance on technology and equipment
Charcadons
Unusually aggressive use slash and burn tactics they have lots of terminators
Soul Drinkers
Strange mutations I'm pretty sure their leader has 8 arachnid legs
Blood Ravens
lots and lots of libbys possible thousand sons loyalists
Star Phantoms
very stealth-oriented attacked Huron under the cover of the Charcadons assault
Blood Drinkers
Drink Blood thats it
White Scars
bikers
White Scars (1st Edition book of the astronomicon White Scars)
They had a high number of navigators and astronomicons
a special unit with refractor feilds
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Post by: Rocketmike
Here are some more interesting bits of lore from http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki
Praetors of Orpheus - The technological lore of the Praetors of Orpheus is second only to that of the Adeptus Mechanicus.
Purple stars - The Purple Stars are a Space Marine chapter with ties to the Adeptus Mechanicus and the Inquisition.
-I don't see anything about this other than allowing allies from other Imperial forces.
Raptors -They specialize in "Jungle Warfare, Hit-and-Run-Tactics, Infiltration, Ambush and Sabotage"
Raven Guard - " The Raven Guard rely heavily on their Scouts for pinpointing enemy positions and to scout for good drop sites. Because of their hit and run tactics they also make extensive use of Assault Squads. The Tactical Squads of the Raven Guard are often deployed via Thunderhawks or Drop Pods. The favorite weapons of the Raven Guard Commanders are the Lightning Claws and it is a common sight that their command squads also come equiped with these weapons in addition to their Jump Packs. "
Red Hunters - "The Red Hunters specialize in assisting forces of the Inquisition. When sequestered by the Inquisition the Red Hunters chapter will act as a corps of elite shock troops when divided amongst Inquisitors during large campaigns,"
Red Scorpions - "The Chapter is noted for the purity of geneseed tithes which is heavily tied to its fanatical belief in purity, in deed and thought as well as physically. According to an assessment of progenoid samples by Inquisitor Lord Varius' Biologis', the Chapter retains over 94% purity, with the only exception being an overactive Betcher's gland" - The overactive Betcher's gland could be interesting. Maybe it could work like automatic digital weapons or the Eldar Striking Scorpions mandiblasters.
Relictors - They collect all sorts of Chaos weaponry and relics, using them against Chaos.
Salamanders - "As such, Flamers, Melta Weapons and Thunder Hammers are widely used throughout the chapter. ..As a result, the Salamanders Chapter has an unusually high number of Master-Crafted Weapons and Artificer Armour. The Chapter also favours the use of Land Raider Redeemers...training with certain units such as Land Speeders and Bikes difficult, therefore the chapter makes little use of them...for some inexplicable reason, they naturally have slightly slower reflexes than most Space Marines."
Sons of Antaeus - "The Sons of Antaeus' livery is grey and black, and they are capable of withstanding damage that would kill any normal Space Marine in seconds. There are many rumors as to why they are so difficult to destroy, ranging from reinforced skeletons to ancient genetics. At this time, the truth is not known. "
Sons of Medusa - "the Sons of Medusa have a particularly exacting recruitment and indoctrination process, which can result in a lower-than-average number of initiates at any one time. On the plus side of this equation, the high wash-out rate does ensure the chapter has a large number of servitors."
Star Phantoms - The Star Phantoms broadly conform to the standards laid down in the Codex Astartes, but has displayed a marked preference for first strike tactics, exemplified by drop pod assaults. The Chapter also seemed to prefer long ranged bombardment using heavy weaponry over the chaos of melee... Instead of having two Devastator Squads per Battle Company as per Codex norm, the Star Phantoms instead have three squads of Devastators...
Steel Confessors - The Steel Confessors are a Space Marine Chapter, associated with the Adeptus Mechanicus.
Storm Wardens - "Despite being a Codex Chapter, there is one strategy the Storm Wardens have near perfected - the armoured assault. Preceding the assault, the enemy is condemned to a short yet devastating bombardment delivered by a Strike Cruiser or Thunderhawk Gunships."
White Scars - "They also do not possess any Dreadnoughts since the thought of confining a warriors' spirit within a sarcophagus is abhorrent to them...The Chapter is highly mobile even for Space Marines, specializing in lightning warfare, and making use of attack bikes and other fast vehicles."
So far as I can tell, that is pretty much all of the info available about significant variations of combat practices, mutations and force orginizations that are not already in a codex. Hope it helps!
47521
Post by: Config2
Ok, first, great job. These are excellent rules and form a great basis for chapter creation.
Second, does anybody else play/paint Brazen Claws?
Third, I may have plasma spammed with these rules, just saying. And I almost have all the models complete to field the army against a willing opponent.
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Post by: Rocketmike
I would be willing to play anyone with an army made by these rules. I usually lose anyway lol! I don't have the time at the moment, but with Marik's permission I might take this project and try to slightly convert it to a Craftworld Creation for Eldar. It would be a while before I could get started, but I think it would be neat. I might just do an Aspect Shrine creator though. We'll see.
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Post by: Marik Law
Rocketmike wrote:I would be willing to play anyone with an army made by these rules. I usually lose anyway lol! I don't have the time at the moment, but with Marik's permission I might take this project and try to slightly convert it to a Craftworld Creation for Eldar. It would be a while before I could get started, but I think it would be neat. I might just do an Aspect Shrine creator though. We'll see.
I have a few ideas up my sleeve after I'm finished with the Chapter Creator, some of which are "new" armies while others are more customization rules for stuff like Eldar and Tau.
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Post by: Rocketmike
Marik Law wrote:
I have a few ideas up my sleeve after I'm finished with the Chapter Creator, some of which are "new" armies while others are more customization rules for stuff like Eldar and Tau.
Sounds good. I'd be willing to help in any way I can. Just let me know when you decide to get to it after all the SM stuff is done.
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Post by: Asherian Command
You need a trait that says you may take assualt squads without jump packs but instead gain inflatrate and move through cover and are called Space Marine Recon Squads
Would be cool to do that but I would never get a game played ever.
Also i would love to see a crusader like draw back. Will disregard formation on this roll
Sorry to revive a thread but it is needed.
The chapters that have been brought up thus far are already very different and i can't find too many traits that follow these guys.
Also you need a draw back that is like We Stand Alone.
Or like the Marines Malovent who should be able to bombard an area without caring for casualties.
Or every member in a vanguard squad gets free power weapons in exchange for less squad members or something.
would be interesting.
thus far everything suggested would be awesome.
You should also consider chapters using the chapter creator rules.
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Post by: Rocketmike
I think he is already planning on making some of the "official" chapters using his rule set. I myself simply haven't posted lately because I figured the next post would be an update concerning psychic powers. Since my chapter relies heavily on psychic abilities, i decided to wait on making it until the next update.
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Post by: Marik Law
Asherian Command wrote:You need a trait that says you may take assualt squads without jump packs but instead gain inflatrate and move through cover and are called Space Marine Recon Squads
Would be cool to do that but I would never get a game played ever.
Also i would love to see a crusader like draw back. Will disregard formation on this roll
Sorry to revive a thread but it is needed.
The chapters that have been brought up thus far are already very different and i can't find too many traits that follow these guys.
Also you need a draw back that is like We Stand Alone.
Or like the Marines Malovent who should be able to bombard an area without caring for casualties.
Or every member in a vanguard squad gets free power weapons in exchange for less squad members or something.
would be interesting.
thus far everything suggested would be awesome.
You should also consider chapters using the chapter creator rules.
There will eventually be a Chapters section for the finalized rules, but they won't be in the next version.
Also, the reason the Drawbacks system was left out was due to it feeling so unnecessary, especially in light of Codex Space Marines where any non-Codex (Blood Angels, Dark Angels, Space Wolves) chapter can use any units even though their prior lore says otherwise. It also added tendencies for people to just abuse the Drawbacks system by taking drawbacks involving units they (the player) never used or bothered with to begin with.
A good example of this is White Scars. White Scars don't use Dreadnoughts because they think it's not right to have a warriors body/soul contained as such after death, yet by the new Codex Space Marines you can have a White Scars army that uses Dreadnoughts no problem. It's up to the White Scars player to determine if they want to be fluffy and not include Dreadnoughts or be just a gamer and use the Dreadnoughts anyways.
With that said, there will be optional rules eventually included with the Chapter Creator rules, they just won't be in the next release version. These optional rules will add even more balance to the system via one method or another (such as grouping like-minded Combat Practices/Mutations and Chapter Tactics).
Rocketmike wrote:I think he is already planning on making some of the "official" chapters using his rule set. I myself simply haven't posted lately because I figured the next post would be an update concerning psychic powers. Since my chapter relies heavily on psychic abilities, i decided to wait on making it until the next update.
Sorry about the delays, the Psychic Powers section is taking longer than expected as there are a daunting amount of options and variations present with Psychic Powers that I want to make sure I have a good array while, at the same time, making everything balanced. This is easily the most painstaking section of the Chapter Creator rules I've done so far, so please bear with me as I try to tackle this and get it working to a point where I'm comfortable.
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Post by: Rocketmike
Marik Law wrote:
Sorry about the delays, the Psychic Powers section is taking longer than expected as there are a daunting amount of options and variations present with Psychic Powers that I want to make sure I have a good array while, at the same time, making everything balanced. This is easily the most painstaking section of the Chapter Creator rules I've done so far, so please bear with me as I try to tackle this and get it working to a point where I'm comfortable.
No worries, don't want you to feel rushed. I'm in no hurry. I figured the Psychic powers section would be the toughest one to customize and keep balanced. Just let us know if there is anything we can do to help again. Looking forward to seeing the final product though :-)
17923
Post by: Asherian Command
Marik Law wrote:Asherian Command wrote:You need a trait that says you may take assualt squads without jump packs but instead gain inflatrate and move through cover and are called Space Marine Recon Squads
Would be cool to do that but I would never get a game played ever.
Also i would love to see a crusader like draw back. Will disregard formation on this roll
Sorry to revive a thread but it is needed.
The chapters that have been brought up thus far are already very different and i can't find too many traits that follow these guys.
Also you need a draw back that is like We Stand Alone.
Or like the Marines Malovent who should be able to bombard an area without caring for casualties.
Or every member in a vanguard squad gets free power weapons in exchange for less squad members or something.
would be interesting.
thus far everything suggested would be awesome.
You should also consider chapters using the chapter creator rules.
There will eventually be a Chapters section for the finalized rules, but they won't be in the next version.
Also, the reason the Drawbacks system was left out was due to it feeling so unnecessary, especially in light of Codex Space Marines where any non-Codex (Blood Angels, Dark Angels, Space Wolves) chapter can use any units even though their prior lore says otherwise. It also added tendencies for people to just abuse the Drawbacks system by taking drawbacks involving units they (the player) never used or bothered with to begin with.
A good example of this is White Scars. White Scars don't use Dreadnoughts because they think it's not right to have a warriors body/soul contained as such after death, yet by the new Codex Space Marines you can have a White Scars army that uses Dreadnoughts no problem. It's up to the White Scars player to determine if they want to be fluffy and not include Dreadnoughts or be just a gamer and use the Dreadnoughts anyways.
With that said, there will be optional rules eventually included with the Chapter Creator rules, they just won't be in the next release version. These optional rules will add even more balance to the system via one method or another (such as grouping like-minded Combat Practices/Mutations and Chapter Tactics).
Thanks for clearing that up. I would love to have a black templar or siege expert special ability. Like some marines may take this special weapon instead. or something along those lines.
Can't wait for the next update if you want me to I could help you put together like minded combat practices and chapter tactics with their chapter along with some help.
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Post by: Marik Law
Asherian Command wrote:Thanks for clearing that up. I would love to have a black templar or siege expert special ability.
It's funny you mention Black Templars. After I've gotten the Final Alpha version of my Chapter Creator rules out I will be starting work on a Black Templars Redux book, which will bring the Black Templars up to 5th Edition standards (I also have plans for a Craftworld Creator and either a Tribal Kroot codex or a Chaos Cults codex after that).
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Post by: Asherian Command
Marik Law wrote:Asherian Command wrote:Thanks for clearing that up. I would love to have a black templar or siege expert special ability.
It's funny you mention Black Templars. After I've gotten the Final Alpha version of my Chapter Creator rules out I will be starting work on a Black Templars Redux book, which will bring the Black Templars up to 5th Edition standards (I also have plans for a Craftworld Creator and either a Tribal Kroot codex or a Chaos Cults codex after that).
what about siege warfare experts there quite a few chapters that specailize in that. there are a few more chapters that are very unquie. But in my chapter the Storm Crusaders there is a symptom though rare where some marines turn from an astrates into a servant of chaos before they are implemented with black caparace or the geneseed. But there is also where the chapter has some marines that go from astrates to all of a sudden giant monster.
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Post by: Marik Law
Asherian Command wrote:Marik Law wrote:Asherian Command wrote:Thanks for clearing that up. I would love to have a black templar or siege expert special ability.
It's funny you mention Black Templars. After I've gotten the Final Alpha version of my Chapter Creator rules out I will be starting work on a Black Templars Redux book, which will bring the Black Templars up to 5th Edition standards (I also have plans for a Craftworld Creator and either a Tribal Kroot codex or a Chaos Cults codex after that).
what about siege warfare experts there quite a few chapters that specailize in that. there are a few more chapters that are very unquie.
But in my chapter the Storm Crusaders there is a symptom though rare where some marines turn from an astrates into a servant of chaos before they are implemented with black caparace or the geneseed.
But there is also where the chapter has some marines that go from astrates to all of a sudden giant monster.
Siege Experts have rules in the final version, don't worry.
As for the other things you mentioned, such a thing is hard to do in a balanced way using the rules system present in the Chapter Creator. The new and improved Unit Creator will let you create something like that though or at least similar to it.
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Post by: Overloded
This really is very awesome, you must have put a lot of work into it. I'm thinking of making a salamander list and might post it if it looks good.
EDIT: spelling
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Post by: Marik Law
Unfinished version of the Final Release (Alpha) has been posted! You guys have been so patient that I couldn't bear to keep it from you any longer. Note that the unfinished version is missing a few sections (Custom Psychic Powers, Example Chapters, Alternate Rules, etc), but is fully functional as-is.
If you see any errors (spelling, foggy grammar, missing sections, missing points costs, etc) or see anything that could be unbalanced (or underpowered, even points costs) just let me know and I'll get about to fixing them for the Beta release.
EDIT: Note that there is a part missing from that document. I split up Praise the Machine God to be more similar to the other two Headquarters tactics but forgot to put in the advanced version. Advanced version should be treated similarly to the other advanced versions of HQ choices.
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Post by: kenshin620
Awesome! Going to look through these now. I can see some really silly combos but really if you're going to use this dex to WAAC, then you need to rethink your life
Although...Land Raiders ignoring meltas/lances
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Post by: Asherian Command
Want us to start getting good custom chapters up that use this as a basis?
Also my chapter has 30 companies and doesn't follow the Codex Astrates. So what do I do now? only 15 of them are named, 7 of which are masters. So does this mean I can only have 17 named captains/masters?
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Post by: Marik Law
kenshin620 wrote:Awesome! Going to look through these now. I can see some really silly combos but really if you're going to use this dex to WAAC, then you need to rethink your life
Although...Land Raiders ignoring meltas/lances
Yeah, things definately need some playtesting for fairness, but at least you have to take a squad in order to take Land Raiders using these rules (transports).
Asherian Command wrote:Want us to start getting good custom chapters up that use this as a basis?
I'd love some Custom Chapter, but for the Example Chapters I'd rather have GW Official stuff, that way we have some familiarity and some lore to base them around. Salamanders, Raven Guard, Iron Fists, White Scars, anything really.
Asherian Command wrote:Also my chapter has 30 companies and doesn't follow the Codex Astrates. So what do I do now? only 15 of them are named, 7 of which are masters. So does this mean I can only have 17 named captains/masters?
You can have 10 named Captains. Sadly there is no official lore/fluff to support there being more than 10 Companies per Chapter, most Chapters have 10 or less. The only chapter that seems to have more than 10 Companies in actual fluff/lore is the Space Wolves, who seem to have around 14 Great Companies. I may up the number of allowed Captains to 15, but I can't see the Inquisition liking too many chapters getting above the 10 Company mark.
Also remember that these rules aren't set in stone. Talk to the people you play with, ask them if its alright if you make more than 10 Captains.
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Post by: kenshin620
Marik Law wrote:kenshin620 wrote:Awesome! Going to look through these now. I can see some really silly combos but really if you're going to use this dex to WAAC, then you need to rethink your life
Although...Land Raiders ignoring meltas/lances
Yeah, things definately need some playtesting for fairness, but at least you have to take a squad in order to take Land Raiders using these rules (transports).
Oh dont worry, I'll just fill them up with my Storm Shield armed T5 marine squads with apothecaries
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Post by: Rocketmike
30 Companies! Wow.
(edit: The fluff actually does allow for something like this, they just aren't viewed as companies. The Black Templar function as crusades and as there are many crusades going on at the same time, the entire chapter is rarely if ever present as a whole. Nobody but the Grand Marshall (Chapter Master?) knows how many Black Templar there actually are, but it is certainly larger than the standard chapter. A company of 30 companies probably would be forced to split into 2 or three chapters though, just like the original legions that separated.)
Anyway, looking forward to using it. Might not be able to do much today, I've got a ton of work to get done. I'll probably get to work on my chapter's fandex here shortly now that your chapter creator is near complete. Thanks again for all your work on this project!
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Post by: Battle_Brother_Bruening
Here is one fix that I just noticed. Faith is it's own reward... should be Faith is its own reward.
Also in Through Faith We gain strength... the last sentence is a bit confusing... I edited it in my own fluff to be 'take/create one more Hero'
I will let you know any more typos as I come across them.
EDIT: Also under the Chapter Heroes- Librarians in the basics you say Grand Librarians... i think you mean Chief Librarians
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Post by: Asherian Command
Rocketmike wrote:30 Companies! Wow.
(edit: The fluff actually does allow for something like this, they just aren't viewed as companies. The Black Templar function as crusades and as there are many crusades going on at the same time, the entire chapter is rarely if ever present as a whole. Nobody but the Grand Marshall (Chapter Master?) knows how many Black Templar there actually are, but it is certainly larger than the standard chapter. A company of 30 companies probably would be forced to split into 2 or three chapters though, just like the original legions that separated.)
Anyway, looking forward to using it. Might not be able to do much today, I've got a ton of work to get done. I'll probably get to work on my chapter's fandex here shortly now that your chapter creator is near complete. Thanks again for all your work on this project!
If you read my Storm Crusaders Lore Panel it explains why they are able to do this. Heres a link( http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/240/280380.page#3378899) But anyway I will try and use this as the basis for my chapter as it radically differs from other chapters.
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Post by: candy.man
Nice rules. I had a play with the rules and was able to create some pretty fun and balanced rules for a Loyalist World Eaters/CC SM chapter. All in all I’m impressed. I noticed there are a few cheesy combos (such as using the superior strength mutation with the furious charge special rule) but nothing necessarily overpowered or “Matt Ward” crazy. My only criticism is that the wording for the unique unit section definitely needs work. I found myself going back and forth and having to reread a few sections to make sense of things.
Take the fight to them
Never Give up, never surrender
Leave them no quarter
Hero Captain - 100pts
Unique Chainsword (+D6 attacks, wounds cause instant death, master crafted) 50pts
Rending 10pts
Furious charge for unit 30pts
Unique Space Marine Squad
Each marine equipped with unique chainswords (D6 extra attacks) +7pts
Assault marine special weapon options
Unique Landraider - 140pts
No front sponson
Unique Melta gun side sponsons (spray) 60pts
Pintle mounted missile launcher 20pts
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Post by: Asherian Command
candy.man wrote:Nice rules. I had a play with the rules and was able to create some pretty fun and balanced rules for a Loyalist World Eaters/CC SM chapter. All in all I’m impressed. I noticed there are a few cheesy combos (such as using the superior strength mutation with the furious charge special rule) but nothing necessarily overpowered or “Matt Ward” crazy. My only criticism is that the wording for the unique unit section definitely needs work. I found myself going back and forth and having to reread a few sections to make sense of things.
Take the fight to them
Never Give up, never surrender
Leave them no quarter
Hero Captain - 100pts
Unique Chainsword (+D6 attacks, wounds cause instant death, master crafted) 50pts
Rending 10pts
Furious charge for unit 30pts
Unique Space Marine Squad
Each marine equipped with unique chainswords (D6 extra attacks) +7pts
Assault marine special weapon options
Unique Landraider - 140pts
No front sponson
Unique Melta gun side sponsons (spray) 60pts
Pintle mounted missile launcher 20pts
Super cheesy it seems Lol!
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Post by: Marik Law
candy.man wrote:Nice rules. I had a play with the rules and was able to create some pretty fun and balanced rules for a Loyalist World Eaters/CC SM chapter. All in all I’m impressed. I noticed there are a few cheesy combos (such as using the superior strength mutation with the furious charge special rule) but nothing necessarily overpowered or “Matt Ward” crazy. My only criticism is that the wording for the unique unit section definitely needs work. I found myself going back and forth and having to reread a few sections to make sense of things.
Take the fight to them
Never Give up, never surrender
Leave them no quarter
Hero Captain - 100pts
Unique Chainsword (+D6 attacks, wounds cause instant death, master crafted) 50pts
Rending 10pts
Furious charge for unit 30pts
Unique Space Marine Squad
Each marine equipped with unique chainswords (D6 extra attacks) +7pts
Assault marine special weapon options
Unique Landraider - 140pts
No front sponson
Unique Melta gun side sponsons (spray) 60pts
Pintle mounted missile launcher 20pts
Yeah, some of the combos can be pretty bad, but that's where the other players come in. With games like this, you can't hand-hold everyone, if you do we get really bland Codex books (*cough* early 3rd Edition *cough*), so its really up to others to go "I'm sorry, that doesn't seem very balanced to me, I'm not playing with you."
The Alternative Rules section, when it's made, will produce even more optional balancing mechanics. Like what? Grouping like Combat Practices together (forcing people to pick from a single category) would be one example of what I'm planning on for Alternate Rules.
Also which parts in particular were you having trouble with? Let me know and I'll do my best to iron them out.
I'm also going to make it clear that the bonuses provided by Deviations do not stack with other effects (so you would still only get +1 Strength, even with Furious Charge).
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Post by: candy.man
Thanks for your reply. I figured as much regarding the balance issue but I made the post anyway. I say anyway that I really liked your asterisk system (perhaps this can be used for unique weapons as well). Bonuses not stacking absolute absolutely should alleviate the balance issues I encountered.
In regards to parts that were hard to understand, the wargear section for unique unit creation was the part that I had issues with (only because I think it could have been explain clearer).
17923
Post by: Asherian Command
Okay that makes sense, now if we only had a special rule for crusade chapters. Without number would be hilarious in my mind rofl!
But what else would chapters like crusades, and chapters like the Crimson fists or the wanderers that are close to extinction shouldn't they get like special rules like. "The Fate of the Chapter is upon us." Where in the last turn they get some bonuses or something?
49406
Post by: Overloded
While looking throught it i've come up with a problem, while trying to create a Vulkan He'stan model i realised there's no way to make his Kaesares Mantle, is there any chance you'll add an option to make custom amour for special characters at some point, rather than just being able to use the default armour
47044
Post by: Rocketmike
Overloded wrote:While looking throught it i've come up with a problem, while trying to create a Vulkan He'stan model i realised there's no way to make his Kaesares Mantle, is there any chance you'll add an option to make custom amour for special characters at some point, rather than just being able to use the default armour
I've kind of wondered about this myself. Dawn of War II has armor that grants special traits to your character. I was myself wondering about how to make "Armor of Retribution" for my character so that any enemy model that rolls a 1 to hit in close combat suffers a str 4 hit, rolling to wound and save as normal. Custom non-weapon wargear would be pretty neat but might be difficult to balance. The only way I can think to do this would be to look at the effects and points costs of every armory item available to the numerous armies and races to get ideas for non-weapon wargear. Automatically Appended Next Post: Had an idea! What about still only having the basic armor allowed (power armor, artificer and terminator) but allowing special characters to take a certain number of "seals" to customize the armor. For instance, maybe Independent characters can have up to 2 seals on their armor (each one having an appropriate point cost for their ability).
Seals could have a range of effects from making enemies firing at your unit have to use night fighting rules to inflicting wounds against enemies who make failed cc attacks against you.
47762
Post by: Justicar Cliesthenes
Reclusiarch – 210
Master of Sanctity
Assault Company
+2 Toughness and +2 Weapon Skill
Dawnhammer - 35
Phasing
Power Weapon
Powerful
Boltgun of Faith - 31
Storm Bolter
Powerful
Spray
Double Barreled
Stalker Scope
Did I do this right? Please let me know
6372
Post by: Marik Law
candy.man wrote:Thanks for your reply. I figured as much regarding the balance issue but I made the post anyway. I say anyway that I really liked your asterisk system (perhaps this can be used for unique weapons as well). Bonuses not stacking absolute absolutely should alleviate the balance issues I encountered.
In regards to parts that were hard to understand, the wargear section for unique unit creation was the part that I had issues with (only because I think it could have been explain clearer).
I'll see what I can do, main problem is space constraints.
Asherian Command wrote:Okay that makes sense, now if we only had a special rule for crusade chapters. Without number would be hilarious in my mind rofl!
But what else would chapters like crusades, and chapters like the Crimson fists or the wanderers that are close to extinction shouldn't they get like special rules like. "The Fate of the Chapter is upon us." Where in the last turn they get some bonuses or something?
I'll see about fiddling with the Captains to allow a greater number of them. I may just remove the limitation on Captains all together.
Not sure how one could easily represent chapter's who are vastly understrength other than things such as being Stubborn. I'll think on it, feel free to throw some ideas my way too.
Overloded wrote:While looking throught it i've come up with a problem, while trying to create a Vulkan He'stan model i realised there's no way to make his Kaesares Mantle, is there any chance you'll add an option to make custom amour for special characters at some point, rather than just being able to use the default armour
You can already do this.
All you have to do is select what level of armour the character has normally (such as Scout, Artificer, etc, at the points costs), then just add Wargear traits/rules onto it at the appropriate points costs.
Let's say you wanted to create a unique suit of Artificer Armour for a Captain. Upgrade the captain to having Artificer Armour normally, then simply go to the Unique Wargear section and add the rules that you want onto that points costs.
This was done on purpose as I didn't feel it necessary to have armour entries twice (in the hero or unit section and in the unique wargear section). So you can indeed create unique suits of armour, just tack the Unique Wargear points costs onto the cost of the armour.
Now that you've brought it up though I will add a section to the final version which explains how to create armour in more detail to avoid future issues/confusion.
Justicar Cliesthenes wrote:Reclusiarch – 210
Master of Sanctity
Assault Company
+2 Toughness and +2 Weapon Skill
Dawnhammer - 35
Phasing
Power Weapon
Powerful
Boltgun of Faith - 31
Storm Bolter
Powerful
Spray
Double Barreled
Stalker Scope
Did I do this right? Please let me know
Hmm, not quite.
Reclusiarch = 130 Points (100 + 30 for upgrade to Reclusiarch)
Master of Sanctity = 50 Points
Assault Company = 20 Points
Stat Upgrades = 40 Points
Total so far: 240 points
Dawnhammer is correct.
The Bolter of Faith would only be 16 points. Values for the ranged weapons mean different things than the values for the other wargear sections.
So your Chaplain would end up costing 291 points.
48037
Post by: L33TFROG
I think that. Regardless of HQ changer every chapter should be able to make 1 war smith, reclusiarch, and grand librarian
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Post by: Marik Law
L33TFROG wrote:I think that. Regardless of HQ changer every chapter should be able to make 1 war smith, reclusiarch, and grand librarian
Hmm, I'll think about it, problem with it though is that none of the 5th Generation Marine codex books seem to support this. Even Tigurius, whom is an incredibly impressive Librarian in his own right and the Chief Librarian (Master of the Librarium by my rules standards) of his chapter only has stats in line with the regular Librarian in my rules.
But as I said earlier, these rules aren't set in stone, talk to the people you play with and ask them if it's alright.
17923
Post by: Asherian Command
Well Ever since people come over to my house to play games. It is my rules so they can follow these rules as well. As most of us play marines so we always do Horus Hersey Battles or massive Chaos Marines vs Renegade marines or something else entirely.
Of course I just want the rules so I can finally explain some stuff about my chapter rofl. Never thought of any traits for them, apart from being siege experts from long range and their anti-xenos mostly.
49406
Post by: Overloded
Marik Law wrote:Overloded wrote:While looking throught it i've come up with a problem, while trying to create a Vulkan He'stan model i realised there's no way to make his Kaesares Mantle, is there any chance you'll add an option to make custom amour for special characters at some point, rather than just being able to use the default armour
You can already do this.
All you have to do is select what level of armour the character has normally (such as Scout, Artificer, etc, at the points costs), then just add Wargear traits/rules onto it at the appropriate points costs.
Let's say you wanted to create a unique suit of Artificer Armour for a Captain. Upgrade the captain to having Artificer Armour normally, then simply go to the Unique Wargear section and add the rules that you want onto that points costs.
This was done on purpose as I didn't feel it necessary to have armour entries twice (in the hero or unit section and in the unique wargear section). So you can indeed create unique suits of armour, just tack the Unique Wargear points costs onto the cost of the armour.
Now that you've brought it up though I will add a section to the final version which explains how to create armour in more detail to avoid future issues/confusion.
Ahh ty, that wasn't in the last version was it? which was the one i was looking at, looks like you've got everything covered anyway i'll get on with my list.
47044
Post by: Rocketmike
Ah, I had made my most recent post without having read the updated pdf. I see my suggestions for wargear were completely unnecessary. I love the Beast creator. I was planing on having an Avatar of Light in my army and was originally going to have to borrow a deamon prince or something from a chaos marine codex. This should work perfectly though. Nicely done. Can't wait to see what you come up with for the psychic powers section.
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Post by: Rennoc215
The New creator is quite neat. I enjoyed the old one, but now I'm going to have to take a look at the new one in better detail. good job Automatically Appended Next Post: Also:
Why dont you set it up so that people can download the older copies as well, so that people can see just how far this has progressed?
47044
Post by: Rocketmike
Ok. Firstly, Love the updates, especially the beast section. But I also have some thoughts on it.
In the description on the left side it says "huge monsters" while the profile says "monstrous." Minor detail.
Now, When I first saw the beast section I thought to myself "PERFECT!" because I wanted to, in essence, create my chapter's own unique god/avatar. The Huge/Monstrous creature option looked to be my best bet but I quickly ran into a problem. You see, I was hoping the unit would end up being comparable to the eldar's avatar of Khaine or a melee focused wraithlord. Another comparison was a daemon prince from the chaos codex or even a dread-knight from GK. There just aren't enough options to create anything quite as strong and even if you tried with the given options the model would be a weaker, much more expensive version that far passes the 100 point limit. Options for ranged weapons might be nice for some people but personally I only care about the melee for my purposes and the ranged weapons might be an option by essentially adding a "rider" with the weapon, whether he is actually there or not.
It might be reasonable to put 2 wounds as the starting point for each of the beast sizes. I would also love to see an "Armored" option that gives a 3+ armor save (2+ would be pushing it) as well as some form of invulnerable save for the large and monstrous size creatures. As it is, by the time you are done decking out your huge creature it is going to get to the 100 pt limit very quickly and it wont be able to contend with anything of equal value.
Just some thoughts/requests. Still love all the great work!
49263
Post by: Leonid
awesome rules!!
Cant wait for the unit creator!!)))
17923
Post by: Asherian Command
can't wait for the space marine squad i can make that has cloaking technology and inflatration rofl! Marines with sniper rifles FTW!
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Post by: Vampirate of Sartosa
This looks awesome, but some of the "Before You Begin" rules seem a little odd. Specifically, the MotF and Land Raider restrictions and the prevention of Chapter Masters. Mind explaining?
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Post by: Rocketmike
I believe the "Master of the Chapter" upgrade is intended to create your "Chapter Master" as comparable to SM or any number of "Grand Masters" comparable to the GK. If that is the case however, the upgrade should probably be increased and include the orbital bombardment that a Chapter Master normally has though the orbital bombardment option is available if you make the character the Master of the Fleet.
If I am mistaken and this is not the intention, it might be expected that you simply take the Chapter Master from the codex as is and upgrade him using the same points system as you would a Captain from the rules presented in the PDF.
49069
Post by: Vampirate of Sartosa
Hmm. Alright then.
Just a thought- Heavy Flamers should be allowed as heavy weapons in Tactical/Scout, etc squads and in Devastator squads when using Cleanse and Purify...
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Post by: AchillesFTW
I like the idea of Hardened Body & Apothecary Sergeants. That right there is probably the best combination. Its like Plague Marines . . . for FREEE!
Though I do thoroughly enjoy this Chapter Creator since it allows to make really fun, balanced, and fluffy armies.
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Post by: Asherian Command
AchillesFTW wrote:I like the idea of Hardened Body & Apothecary Sergeants. That right there is probably the best combination. Its like Plague Marines . . . for FREEE!
Though I do thoroughly enjoy this Chapter Creator since it allows to make really fun, balanced, and fluffy armies.
not really a apothecary sergeant costs 40 pts each. Also with unit creator can someone help me make a light infantry squad for marines that use scopes with their bolters that use different bolter rounds? I can't think of anything. I know they need to be marines basically that don't use jump packs but are deployed for scouting and everything in power armor but they are really good at it. arghh.
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Post by: AchillesFTW
Being an apothecary is 10pts for a sergeant. So yeah its not FREE, but its still way cheaper than paying the 23pts per Plague Marine.
In total an Apothecary costs 36pts, but he comes at 26pts in the first place.
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Post by: Asherian Command
AchillesFTW wrote:Being an apothecary is 10pts for a sergeant. So yeah its not FREE, but its still way cheaper than paying the 23pts per Plague Marine.
In total an Apothecary costs 36pts, but he comes at 26pts in the first place.
still a fully loaded tactical squad is expensive.
47044
Post by: Rocketmike
First, Give them one or more of the following special rules:
Chameleonic 10 pts
Infiltrate 1
Move through Cover 1
Scouts 2
Shimmer 3
Stealth 1
Now give them a simple Bolter with the following upgrades:
Ammo: Pinning 2 pts
Attachment: Stalker Scope 2
I would probably only take the Infiltrate, Move Through Cover and Shimmer special rules if I was making this squad a troops choice aimed at stalking people. That puts each model's points cost at 25 pts. If it were me, I'd probably give them an extended barrel as well at +5 points each making them 30 pts but that sounds kinda pricey for a stealth squad model. Then again, they get +1 to their cover saves and always hit on +2 with a pinning 24" range bolter. I would also probably model them with some kind of cloak that covers them up at least partially and paint it camo but paint the rest of their armor to match the chapter.
17923
Post by: Asherian Command
Rocketmike wrote:First, Give them one or more of the following special rules:
Chameleonic 10 pts
Infiltrate 1
Move through Cover 1
Scouts 2
Shimmer 3
Stealth 1
Now give them a simple Bolter with the following upgrades:
Ammo: Pinning 2 pts
Attachment: Stalker Scope 2
I would probably only take the Infiltrate, Move Through Cover and Shimmer special rules if I was making this squad a troops choice aimed at stalking people. That puts each model's points cost at 25 pts. If it were me, I'd probably give them an extended barrel as well at +5 points each making them 30 pts but that sounds kinda pricey for a stealth squad model. Then again, they get +1 to their cover saves and always hit on +2 with a pinning 24" range bolter. I would also probably model them with some kind of cloak that covers them up at least partially and paint it camo but paint the rest of their armor to match the chapter.
i want to be a fast attack choice. like the warpspiders rofl.
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Post by: forruner_mercy
Lol, it is so easy to make OTT characters
I made a almost 400 Point character
47044
Post by: Rocketmike
Ah, see, by scouts I had a "ranger" type character in mind. Not sure what to tell ya.
One thing I'm wondering how you guys would do using the rules as they are now, or if it is even possible...
I want to create a special unit similar to an honr guard that I am going to call The Ascended. They are, for the most part, going to be normal honor guard but I want them to be able to create Psychic "wings" that would function as either a jetpack of jump-pack. I could just give them a jetpack as is normally allowed, but they dont always have their wings as they are created by their psychic ability. The special rules section allows for "willpower" rolls (leadership tests) in order to make the special rules work but jetpacks/flying are not options. Wargear has some options but nothing to make it so the wings may or may not work. Should I just make them better by not even having to make the test and not bother with the fluff for them or am I missing an option to accomplish this somehow? Automatically Appended Next Post: forruner_mercy wrote:Lol, it is so easy to make OTT characters
I made a almost 400 Point character
Yea, but hopefully most people trying to use this and be reasonable.
6372
Post by: Marik Law
Rocketmike wrote:Ok. Firstly, Love the updates, especially the beast section. But I also have some thoughts on it.
In the description on the left side it says "huge monsters" while the profile says "monstrous." Minor detail.
Now, When I first saw the beast section I thought to myself "PERFECT!" because I wanted to, in essence, create my chapter's own unique god/avatar. The Huge/Monstrous creature option looked to be my best bet but I quickly ran into a problem. You see, I was hoping the unit would end up being comparable to the eldar's avatar of Khaine or a melee focused wraithlord. Another comparison was a daemon prince from the chaos codex or even a dread-knight from GK. There just aren't enough options to create anything quite as strong and even if you tried with the given options the model would be a weaker, much more expensive version that far passes the 100 point limit. Options for ranged weapons might be nice for some people but personally I only care about the melee for my purposes and the ranged weapons might be an option by essentially adding a "rider" with the weapon, whether he is actually there or not.
It might be reasonable to put 2 wounds as the starting point for each of the beast sizes. I would also love to see an "Armored" option that gives a 3+ armor save (2+ would be pushing it) as well as some form of invulnerable save for the large and monstrous size creatures. As it is, by the time you are done decking out your huge creature it is going to get to the 100 pt limit very quickly and it wont be able to contend with anything of equal value.
Just some thoughts/requests. Still love all the great work!
Yes, the first part is a typing oversight which I will correct in the next version that includes the Psychic Powers section.
As for the Beast section, I actually didn't want to allow people to create really insane units (such as units on-par with Avatars or Greater Daemons), I wanted the units to feel more like trained beasts and less like the avatars of gods. To me, a high Weapon Skill represents a skilled finesse with a weapon and as such doesn't really befit a savage beast that can only fight savagely. Think of it this way: a trained warrior is like a Samurai, somebody who uses skill to overcome and kill their enemies, where as a beast is like a bar-room brawler with dangerous natural weaponry and usually superior strength and primitive but effective cunning.
So sadly the points limitation is there for a very good reason. I didn't want people creating 150-200 point beasts as I didn't feel they really fit and would prefer people created them as crude beasts of war rather than demigod-like beings.
If you're wanting to create something like a Dread Knight I'll see about introducing rules for Dread Knight-like exoskeletons.
Also, there is already an option for Invulnerable Saves for the Beasts section.
Leonid wrote:awesome rules!!
Cant wait for the unit creator!!)))
Already in there. Check the first page now for the updated PDF.
Vampirate of Sartosa wrote:This looks awesome, but some of the "Before You Begin" rules seem a little odd. Specifically, the MotF and Land Raider restrictions and the prevention of Chapter Masters. Mind explaining?
Chapter Masters are removed because, in your own Chapter, the Chapter Master isn't a generic, faceless soldier, he's a special character. Masters of the Forge are, for all intents and purposes, Masters of the Forge, but just have a different name and no Master of the Armoury rule. Land Raiders were changed to reflect more recent Codex books where they have been removed from the Heavy Support sections of the chapters and placed instead as just Transports.
Rocketmike wrote:If that is the case however, the upgrade should probably be increased and include the orbital bombardment that a Chapter Master normally has though the orbital bombardment option is available if you make the character the Master of the Fleet.
I changed this out of necessity and simple interest of lore/fluff. To me, an Orbital Bombardment says Master of the Fleet (ability to call down orbital strikes from said fleet) where as Masters of the Chapter are more the brave, cunning, and wise leadership figures of the chapter who are able to command their forces with far greater efficiency than anyone else in the chapter. Hence the change.
AchillesFTW wrote:I like the idea of Hardened Body & Apothecary Sergeants. That right there is probably the best combination. Its like Plague Marines . . . for FREEE!
Though I do thoroughly enjoy this Chapter Creator since it allows to make really fun, balanced, and fluffy armies.
Squad of 5 Space Marines + Apothecary Sergeant = 100 points.
Squad of 5 Plague Marines = 130 points.
30 point difference is pretty significant, but not so much so when you consider the hindrances to certain movement options such as Run, downsides which don't plague Plague Marines (yes, bad pun). Plague Marines are also Fearless on top of that, so yes, you can look at it as if they were a cheaper squad of Plague Marines, but you'd have to take into consideration that they aren't Fearless and have movement hindrances. Not to mention Blight Grenades.
When you take that all into account, the points differences don't seem so distant anymore.
47044
Post by: Rocketmike
Marik - I think I'll actually be able to create a decent "avatar" using the basic hero profile with the appropriate upgrades and special rules and a unique enough weapon. I'll probably post what I come up with later. My only concern going this route with it is that it's going to be overly expensive.
Concerning the options on melee gear, I noticed a couple things possibly worth review.
Monstrous Attacks as an upgrade is 35 pts? Aren't the only upgrades for monstrous creatures in cc that it rolls an extra d6 for armor pen and ignores armor saves? If that's the case, it's kinda over priced and not needed as the options to do both are available elsewhere (and for only 20 pts total).
Question concerning the melee weapon Powerful upgrade... does the doubling of the user's strength in cc only apply against infantry and their variants or is it doubled against vehicles as well? As it reads, it's only to wound, which doesnt work on vehicles.
Thanks for the feedback and help! just trying to clarify some things and help work out potential bugs
6372
Post by: Marik Law
Rocketmike wrote:Concerning the options on melee gear, I noticed a couple things possibly worth review.
Monstrous Attacks as an upgrade is 35 pts? Aren't the only upgrades for monstrous creatures in cc that it rolls an extra d6 for armor pen and ignores armor saves? If that's the case, it's kinda over priced and not needed as the options to do both are available elsewhere (and for only 20 pts total).
Question concerning the melee weapon Powerful upgrade... does the doubling of the user's strength in cc only apply against infantry and their variants or is it doubled against vehicles as well? As it reads, it's only to wound, which doesnt work on vehicles.
Thanks for the feedback and help! just trying to clarify some things and help work out potential bugs
Monstrous Creature: I'll have to check the rulebook. Could have sworn it did more than that.
Powerful: Yes, it also applies to vehicle penetration.
42671
Post by: forruner_mercy
Rocketmike wrote:Ah, see, by scouts I had a "ranger" type character in mind. Not sure what to tell ya.
One thing I'm wondering how you guys would do using the rules as they are now, or if it is even possible...
I want to create a special unit similar to an honr guard that I am going to call The Ascended. They are, for the most part, going to be normal honor guard but I want them to be able to create Psychic "wings" that would function as either a jetpack of jump-pack. I could just give them a jetpack as is normally allowed, but they dont always have their wings as they are created by their psychic ability. The special rules section allows for "willpower" rolls (leadership tests) in order to make the special rules work but jetpacks/flying are not options. Wargear has some options but nothing to make it so the wings may or may not work. Should I just make them better by not even having to make the test and not bother with the fluff for them or am I missing an option to accomplish this somehow?
Automatically Appended Next Post:
forruner_mercy wrote:Lol, it is so easy to make OTT characters
I made a almost 400 Point character
Yea, but hopefully most people trying to use this and be reasonable.
Totally. I was just seeing how OOT I could get a character.
BTW, what is a normal cost for a Chapter Master and IC? Around 250-270 for the CM?
49069
Post by: Vampirate of Sartosa
Oh god. Now I've read through the whole thing. It's beautiful.
However, I noticed that there's no availability for Land Speeders to be transport vehicles, like the LSS is. Maybe you could give the ability to make it avaliable to certain troops (choose from a list) at the expense of having to make it open-topped?
You'd have to say that only models in power armour, Artificer armour or Scout armour can take it, though: Terminators just wouldn't fit. 
6372
Post by: Marik Law
Vampirate of Sartosa wrote:Oh god. Now I've read through the whole thing. It's beautiful.
However, I noticed that there's no availability for Land Speeders to be transport vehicles, like the LSS is. Maybe you could give the ability to make it avaliable to certain troops (choose from a list) at the expense of having to make it open-topped?
You'd have to say that only models in power armour, Artificer armour or Scout armour can take it, though: Terminators just wouldn't fit.
Glad all of you are liking it.
I'll definitely see about putting in Land Speeder Transports. I should really put together a To-Do List here now, hehe.
- Grammar corrections, clarifying certain rules/entries, points adjusting, etc.
- Custom Psychic Powers.
- Alternate Rules (systems using categories for balancing, etc).
- Transport Options for Land Speeders.
- Exoskeleton "Dread Knight" unit entry.
- Removing the limitation on Captains.
Oh and in between boughts of wrestling with trying to get this damn Psychic Powers section to work, I've started on my next project. What is it?
.
..
...
Codex: Iron Hands OR Codex: Black Templars
Which one would you guys like to see more? Rules for a chapter that should have gotten their own rules from the get-go OR updated rules for Black Templars to make them...well...not suck anymore (in comparison to the new books).
48147
Post by: KilroyKiljoy
Iron Hands. Black Templars have a friggin' 'dex, and I'm a firm believer that Manus was the bestest.
17923
Post by: Asherian Command
Marik Law wrote:Vampirate of Sartosa wrote:Oh god. Now I've read through the whole thing. It's beautiful.
However, I noticed that there's no availability for Land Speeders to be transport vehicles, like the LSS is. Maybe you could give the ability to make it avaliable to certain troops (choose from a list) at the expense of having to make it open-topped?
You'd have to say that only models in power armour, Artificer armour or Scout armour can take it, though: Terminators just wouldn't fit.
Glad all of you are liking it.
I'll definitely see about putting in Land Speeder Transports. I should really put together a To-Do List here now, hehe.
- Grammar corrections, clarifying certain rules/entries, points adjusting, etc.
- Custom Psychic Powers.
- Alternate Rules (systems using categories for balancing, etc).
- Transport Options for Land Speeders.
- Exoskeleton "Dread Knight" unit entry.
- Removing the limitation on Captains.
Oh and in between boughts of wrestling with trying to get this damn Psychic Powers section to work, I've started on my next project. What is it?
.
..
...
Codex: Iron Hands OR Codex: Black Templars
Which one would you guys like to see more? Rules for a chapter that should have gotten their own rules from the get-go OR updated rules for Black Templars to make them...well...not suck anymore (in comparison to the new books).
add raven guard too
Also Storm Ravens need a spotlight too.
49069
Post by: Vampirate of Sartosa
IRON
HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAANDS
Complete with a MotF with Servo-Arm and Conversion Beamer. As for the fluff, make him rumored to be entirely mechanical.
Anyway, the Dreadknight sounds good. Do you think you might be able to work in the Contemptor Dreadnought? (3 max for regular Dreads, 1 only for Dreadheros.)
Oh, and the Stormraven. Obviously.
6372
Post by: Marik Law
Vampirate of Sartosa wrote:IRON
HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAANDS
Complete with a MotF with Servo-Arm and Conversion Beamer. As for the fluff, make him rumored to be entirely mechanical.
Anyway, the Dreadknight sounds good. Do you think you might be able to work in the Contemptor Dreadnought? (3 max for regular Dreads, 1 only for Dreadheros.)
Oh, and the Stormraven. Obviously.
Not sure about the Contemptor as it's really just a modified Dreadnought, but I'll see what I can do. As for Iron Hands, I've been sneaky. You can turn most any Dreadnought in an Iron Hands codex army into a Contemptor.
49069
Post by: Vampirate of Sartosa
Just stick in the FW rules, maybe? Perhaps with some stat modding abilities. E1: A Contents page might be handy, too E2: ...AAAAAND I've just realized that a LS containing Devastators would be an absolute monster. It could fly around and shoot people with lascannons! You should have the ability to give transports Assault Vehicle (Land Speeder with Assault Squads, anyone?). And allow me to suggest Land Speeder Thunder and Land Speeder Lightning for example Devastator and Assault-carrying Speeders.
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Post by: Asherian Command
I want a heavy Thunderhawk such as the republic gunship that i use rofl.
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Post by: Tesunie
Landspeeders with trqansport should be limited to scouts or models with +4 up armour. Power armour sounds like it's too big to fit on a landspeeder.
Oh, and whoever said landspeeders with devestators could move and shoot lascannons, lascannons are still heavy weapons. If the transport moves, the troops inside count as moving too if I'm correct. It wouldn't be as devastating as one would think anymore. A rhino with two troopers inside with lascannons could provide better armour than a landspeeder with the same.
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Post by: Morgrath
Haven't read through it yet, but I'm pretty excited about having a look. First thing I noticed though - last paragraph on the first page, you've used 'suggestives' twice when I think you mean 'suggestions'
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Post by: Vampirate of Sartosa
Thought on suggested chapter- the Relictors. Mainly, the presence of Daemonblades.
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Post by: thelordwatchman
this is quite the help
i try to use my own chapter the blood watchmen who are lead by a council of eight
the lord watchman/previous chapter master now dead in my back ground for them but i still use him
brother levitas/current chapter master/was the chapter champion before hand
lord librarian tempest/cheif librarian/master of the librarium
lord reclusiarch zeal/head Chaplin/master of sanctury
captain protherian /captain of the daemon knights /daemon hunter/master of the requits
captain saun /captain of the archangels /assault vetran company/master of the arsenel
philatetes the dread lord/leads the wolve pack/basicly space wolf company/master of the fleet
forge lord roberto/leader of the forge guardians/devistator company/master of the forge
and un-uasaly the eigth (note that the lord watchman and levitas were the same rank after the lord watchman died)
lord inquisitor provas/though he is an inquisitor he started as a marine and was presented this tital by the inquisition (he is a captain in all respects) dose not have a company/ master of the watch
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Post by: Rocketmike
thelordwatchman wrote:this is quite the help
lord inquisitor provas/though he is an inquisitor he started as a marine and was presented this tital by the inquisition (he is a captain in all respects) dose not have a company/ master of the watch
Do you know if there is any precedent for this in 40k fluff? I've often considered making a character who began as a Space Marine but for one reason or another became an Inquisitor, or an Inquisitor who requisitioned a Marine into his service as an acolyte but then the Marine himself became an Inquisitor when his leader was killed. So far as I know it's unheard of though. doesn't mean that it cant/shouldn't be done, but I like for my lore to fit in pretty well.
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Post by: thelordwatchman
he became an inquisitor in a campaign i took part in due to the set rule that the imperials needed one and he got executed by the skull tacker then provas took command of the entire campaign (the person using the inquisitor lost his whole army in the end of the results of that one game so he gave me command) the idea is due to this the inquisition knew that they could not get another to the campaign in time and they offered him the position out of his loyalty to the imperium when he was out numbed by blood letters and the skull taker and still won the combat without tacking a wound
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Post by: Asherian Command
I kinda wanna see a chapter crusader special rule :(
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Post by: Vampirate of Sartosa
I don't know how you intend to make these custom psychic powers, might I suggest the following modifier, if it would fit:
Fuelled by death: Psychic shooting attacks only. For every friendly OR enemy model (choose one) killed in the previous enemy or friendly turn, respectively, within 24" of the librarian, the strength, AP or number of shots fired in the attack increases by one.
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Post by: Marik Law
Vampirate of Sartosa wrote:I don't know how you intend to make these custom psychic powers,
Psychic Powers will be balanced in the same way units are balanced, via points. Basically I have it that you have a certain amount of points you can spend on the entirety of your chapter's Psychic Powers with each Psychic Power having a cap of 40 points. With the overall cap (which I'm still tweaking) you can only have about half or less of your psychic powers be 40 point ones, the rest are made up of 10 to 20 point powers.
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Post by: Rocketmike
Sounds good. Looking forward to seeing it!
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Post by: Vampirate of Sartosa
Sounds good. But would that system allow for the modifier I suggested? (Not trying to force it on you, just curious.)
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Post by: Marik Law
Vampirate of Sartosa wrote:Sounds good. But would that system allow for the modifier I suggested? (Not trying to force it on you, just curious.)
You can do things very similar, if not identical, to that. It just may be worded or structured differently.
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Post by: Vampirate of Sartosa
Excellent.
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Post by: Thatguy91
Awesome, this will really help with some future projects! +1
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Post by: Vampirate of Sartosa
So... Is this still a thing that is happening?
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Post by: Marik Law
Vampirate of Sartosa wrote:So... Is this still a thing that is happening?
It is, however due my work schedule, new projects, and difficulty with the psychic powers list, it's currently on temporary hiatus until I can refocus my efforts onto it. The reason I've switched projects is to give myself a break, as this one was burning me out (especially with all the extra effort that goes into reworking the other sections as well, such as adding new features).
So never fear, this project is still ongoing, it's just on hold for the time being while I recharge my batteries on other things.
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Post by: Anglachel
I would really like to encourage you to finish your work here, that is great.
Also, if you like some help and an exchange of ideas about your work or about the rules you're going to write for Psi-Powers, you can count on me.
I've been playing since first edition of WH40K and I have plenty of collections of "House Rules" articles, new Wargear, Psi-Powers and so on! So I could easely help you with some ideas...
Again, I congratulate with you for this excellent Chapter Creator!
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Post by: Marik Law
Anglachel wrote:I would really like to encourage you to finish your work here, that is great.
Also, if you like some help and an exchange of ideas about your work or about the rules you're going to write for Psi-Powers, you can count on me.
I've been playing since first edition of WH40K and I have plenty of collections of "House Rules" articles, new Wargear, Psi-Powers and so on! So I could easely help you with some ideas...
Again, I congratulate with you for this excellent Chapter Creator!
It'll get finished, but with me working retail and trying to finish and recharging myself on Codex: Iron Hands, the Chapter Creator has taken a back seat. It'll get done, but it's just a matter of when I have some free time is all.
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Post by: Rocketmike
This is not to take away at all from Marik's amazing work, but people have to remember that it is a guideline. I fully intend to use the chapter creator as is and make my own psychic powers and try to balance them out. When Marik gets to finishing the creator, I'll compare and see what may need adjusting. In the end, any fan-dex, even if based off of a commonly used chapter creator, is going to need approved by those you are playing against. An uber-amazing could easily be made using the creator I'm sure, so it all comes down to people being honest and fair about how they make their armies. I'll probably actually compile a codex for my Chapter sometime soon. I've been real busy lately and am looking forward to jumping back into some 40k.
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Post by: Anglachel
Of course Rocketmike! I was encouraging Marik not because I wouldn't be able to finish by myself the work he has done, but because it seems to me so well done, and balanced that I was curious to see it finished!
The uber thing you are talking about is always possible in the ambient of competitive playing of WH40K: you can always pile up special rules and equipment and have tactical marines worth 50 Pts each.
I like very much the setting of the Dark Millennium so when I create a new Chapter or Fundex, I always try to make things very balanced and respectful of the background.
The real problem to me seems that GW itself made some errors in the last few Codexes published. Maybe they needed to sell, but for example Dark Eldar, are totally uber! Very difficult to play against. And in the last few tournment I've been I had the proof of it: the Finals were all between the latest Codexed (DE, BA, GK...) and not an old Codex was in for it!
However, I'm using this Chapter Creator to have fun in my club where other people were trying to create new Chapters, and using it for fair-play, I must say that it works very well! So go on Marik, don't hurry but go on! Bye!
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Post by: Marik Law
Great to hear how many people appreciate my work on this project. It took me days worth of work during my personal time to get this finished and after many re-writes I was finally happy with the final product.
Thank you all for your amazing support.
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Post by: AFPredator
Nice, can't wait to see the finished product when you do get around to getting it done.... I still have the original you made up and it looked good to me.... I've been away from 40K for about 2 months or so, so I need to get back into it....
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Post by: Marik Law
This picture pretty much sums up just how I feel trying to get the psychic powers section done.
http://i.imgur.com/WEKwE.gif
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Post by: chrisrawr
This is beautiful and you are beautiful for making it D:
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Post by: Vampirate of Sartosa
Marik Law wrote:This picture pretty much sums up just how I feel trying to get the psychic powers section done.
http://i.imgur.com/WEKwE.gif
Bahahahah.
How far on it have you got?
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Post by: Lord Magnus
I hope you begin to be successful, is something specific stopping you?
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Post by: Marik Law
Vampirate of Sartosa wrote:Marik Law wrote:This picture pretty much sums up just how I feel trying to get the psychic powers section done.
http://i.imgur.com/WEKwE.gif
Bahahahah.
How far on it have you got?
Lord Magnus wrote:I hope you begin to be successful, is something specific stopping you?
Mainly just the amount of work involved with the psychic section alone. It is seriously more work than any other section I've worked on so far, mainly due to all the parameters that can be available to various psychic powers. After I have the parameters its a matter of making sure everything is costed fairly and that there are no abusable combinations of parameters/effects.
In retrospect I could have just cheated and included a massive list of the various psychic powers that have manifested themselves over the course of the history of the game.
At this point I'm thinking of just making a few lists of 7-10 psychic powers that players can choose from.
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Post by: OmegaStriker
This. Is. AMAZING!!!!!
I have always wanted a comprehensive chapter creator like this, and now, thanks to you, I can have my DIY chapter's Master of Sanctity riding a cyber-dragon that breathes plasma and tears stuff to shreds.
Just a quick question.
So I am making a super robot lizard using the "monstrous" creatures rules.
I give him up to 100 points of stuff that directly applies to him, from the creature section.
I then give him unique wargear that is a chapter relic, such as:
A flamestorm cannon with +1 str and -1 AP (he breathes plasma, I use the wargear upgrades on his fire-breath attribute)
Claws that are power/phasing/powerful/etc, as another piece of wargear that the beast gets. (the basic close combat weapon is 0 points, then add stuff on top of that)
Is this okay?
I really like the idea of a "beast" getting wargear, and it fits with my chapter fluff, with it being a robot dragon in the first place.
But my big question is this:
Is this how you intended the rules to be used, Marik Law?
It seems like you say "any model that already has a similar weapon can use a custom made weapon of the same type" so "better claws" and "better fire" both apply to my cyber-dragon.
I am also making a captain that rides around in tanks all the time, but that is a whole different cake.
Keep up the great work!
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Post by: chrisrawr
RUUUUN! ISH GOZIRRA!
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Post by: Anglachel
My only suggestion for Psi-Powers can be that you treat them as "items" that affect one (or more) part\s of the game rules. For example the items\parts of the game to which I refer could be: Movement, Cover, Terrain, Shooting, Stats, Weapons, CC, Morale, Universal Special Rules, etc. Once you have selected one item, you select whether the Power you are creating affects enemy or friendly models, including limitations or enhacements like "self" or "entire enemy Unit" etc.
Every kinf of effect, bonus, enhacement could have a cost, but as most of the Librarians' powers are free in the game, you could give a Chapter an amount of Psi-Points, with which the player must create the whole section of Psi-Powers in choice of the Chapter being created. SO a Chapter could have very few, powerful Psi-Powers of choice, or a lot, less powerful powers.
Of course this is only a little brainstorming for you and I'm, like you, very troubled in thinking about the way to solve the problem.
I know that some of these ideas (or the sum of them all) could reveal very complex but I think that you have a good synthetizing attitude, and I hope that you could be inspired by some of these suggestions!
Go on, for sure you will have a good work done, and with a little effort, a good base you could use for other Races\Codexes too...
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Post by: Marik Law
OmegaStriker wrote:This. Is. AMAZING!!!!!
I have always wanted a comprehensive chapter creator like this, and now, thanks to you, I can have my DIY chapter's Master of Sanctity riding a cyber-dragon that breathes plasma and tears stuff to shreds.
Just a quick question.
So I am making a super robot lizard using the "monstrous" creatures rules.
I give him up to 100 points of stuff that directly applies to him, from the creature section.
I then give him unique wargear that is a chapter relic, such as:
A flamestorm cannon with +1 str and -1 AP (he breathes plasma, I use the wargear upgrades on his fire-breath attribute)
Claws that are power/phasing/powerful/etc, as another piece of wargear that the beast gets. (the basic close combat weapon is 0 points, then add stuff on top of that)
Is this okay?
I really like the idea of a "beast" getting wargear, and it fits with my chapter fluff, with it being a robot dragon in the first place.
But my big question is this:
Is this how you intended the rules to be used, Marik Law?
It seems like you say "any model that already has a similar weapon can use a custom made weapon of the same type" so "better claws" and "better fire" both apply to my cyber-dragon.
I am also making a captain that rides around in tanks all the time, but that is a whole different cake.
Keep up the great work!
Beasts can't take wargear sadly, thus aren't privy to using custom made wargear. They are the only section in the book that can't be given wargear, so you're pretty much stuck with the options available in that section unless stated otherwise.
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Post by: Ratius
Not sure how I missed this one.
Stunning piece of work to date, well done.
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Post by: Anglachel
Another idea I could give you to solve the problem of Psi-Powers for Librarians is to consider the Background of the Legio Astartes and the Founding of the Chapters (Second, Third Founding and so on...). Each of the new 1000 Chapters comes from a former Loyalist Legion (including the 1st Founding Chapters). So, as is foundamental for a player creating a Chapter to define the background of the new created Chapter, you could simply keep the Psi-Power in the SM Codex as generic, and if the new Chapter comes from Blood Angels (for example) mix the Generic Psi-Pows with the Blood Angels' Psi-Pows, up to a specified number of power per Chapter. Of course you will tell me that a lot of 1st Founding Chapters don't have a Codex, BUT: just to extrapolate Psi-Powers to use for other Asartes Legions, you could consult the Deathwatch RPG Core Book and the expansion First Founding, to have all the Powers used by most of the first loyalist Legions. I think that only Imperial Fists and Ultramarines are not covered in those manuals but...more generic and Codex observing than those Legions I think you cannot find, so you could use the generic Psi-Pows from the SM Codex for them...
It's a lot of work to convert those powers from the RPG, but when you would have finished, I think that could be a good job for everyone!!! It's only another crazy suggestion from Italy!!! Bye, never give up!!
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Post by: Otis The Barbarian
what I think would work is this sort of thing:
+1 strength- {insert number} points
-1 strength- (minus){insert number} points
-1 AP- {insert number} points
+1 AP (minus){insert number} points
etc.
and please include number of shots, heavy or assault, at +number Ld or -number Ld, makes them take str tests at + or -, and what happens if they fail, make 'em do Ld tests, that sorta stuff. It will probably be shooting attacks in it's basic form. maybe a regen spell?
Automatically Appended Next Post:
what I think would work is this sort of thing:
+1 strength- {insert number} points
-1 strength- (minus){insert number} points
-1 AP- {insert number} points
+1 AP (minus){insert number} points
etc.
and please include number of shots, heavy or assault, at +number Ld or -number Ld, makes them take str tests at + or -, and what happens if they fail, make 'em do Ld tests, that sorta stuff. It will probably be shooting attacks in it's basic form. maybe a regen spell? more wounds and easier casting would be points for the points god. hope this helps, seeing as this is my first post. *sound of me punching fist in air* "I am a lurker no longer!!"
Automatically Appended Next Post:
I lurked for 3 years you know.
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Post by: Marik Law
Otis The Barbarian wrote:what I think would work is this sort of thing:
+1 strength- {insert number} points
-1 strength- (minus){insert number} points
-1 AP- {insert number} points
+1 AP (minus){insert number} points
etc.
and please include number of shots, heavy or assault, at +number Ld or -number Ld, makes them take str tests at + or -, and what happens if they fail, make 'em do Ld tests, that sorta stuff. It will probably be shooting attacks in it's basic form. maybe a regen spell?
Automatically Appended Next Post:
what I think would work is this sort of thing:
+1 strength- {insert number} points
-1 strength- (minus){insert number} points
-1 AP- {insert number} points
+1 AP (minus){insert number} points
etc.
and please include number of shots, heavy or assault, at +number Ld or -number Ld, makes them take str tests at + or -, and what happens if they fail, make 'em do Ld tests, that sorta stuff. It will probably be shooting attacks in it's basic form. maybe a regen spell? more wounds and easier casting would be points for the points god. hope this helps, seeing as this is my first post. *sound of me punching fist in air* "I am a lurker no longer!!"
Automatically Appended Next Post:
I lurked for 3 years you know.
I don't quite understand what you're asking for or wanting here. :( Sorry.
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Post by: Otis The Barbarian
it's a style of rules making where you can... well, the big thing I did lots of typing on is a sort of template for a shooting attack, I suppose.
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Post by: Marik Law
Otis The Barbarian wrote:it's a style of rules making where you can... well, the big thing I did lots of typing on is a sort of template for a shooting attack, I suppose.
Ah. I tried doing this before, found that it was too easily abusable, which is why I used the current system.
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Post by: Asherian Command
YOu also need some examples of chapters.
Use a chapter you have made as an example or you could ask someone else to do it.
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Post by: Otis The Barbarian
Marik Law wrote:Ah. I tried doing this before, found that it was too easily abusable, which is why I used the current system.
too abusable? how? 
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Post by: odorofdeath
Not only are these rules more complete and varied than most GW products, the entire document is extremely polished.
I'm simply blown away by the depth and obvious amount of time spent crafting this. I strongly encourage you to finish this, or at least recruit some people to help!
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Post by: Marik Law
Otis The Barbarian wrote:Marik Law wrote:Ah. I tried doing this before, found that it was too easily abusable, which is why I used the current system.
too abusable? how?
The problem with static points costs in terms of weapons is that if you price them too high, lower power weapons are overcosted. Price them too low and it's easy to create uber-powerful weapons for really low points costs, thus causing problems for game balance.
The only fair way to go about it would be to make a math formula to create a "curve" in the points costs, sadly this would add a bit more difficulty and confusion to the creation process which I wanted to avoid.
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Post by: Anglachel
Look, maybe I repeat myself: I think you only have to make some Generic Powers (like those in SM Codex) and some that come from the Legion your chapter has born from.
As you have to include that origin in your background I think it can be simple. As Psi-Powers for SM don't have a point cost, you cannot go mad creating a set of rules to create (again!) a Psi-Power. Also with you weapon modification rules you have decided to start from a fixed weapon profile, which is the right thing!
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Post by: Marik Law
Anglachel wrote:Look, maybe I repeat myself: I think you only have to make some Generic Powers (like those in SM Codex) and some that come from the Legion your chapter has born from.
As you have to include that origin in your background I think it can be simple. As Psi-Powers for SM don't have a point cost, you cannot go mad creating a set of rules to create (again!) a Psi-Power. Also with you weapon modification rules you have decided to start from a fixed weapon profile, which is the right thing!
I saw your original post Ang, I am not ignoring you. If anything I said something similar earlier and am seriously considering following through with a plan similar to this one.
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Post by: odorofdeath
I would love to help with the psychic powers, if you need/want any. Let me know!
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Post by: chrisrawr
One thing I caught in the 'masters' section, the God of War ability allows ALL units on the table to pass or fail morale at will? Is there a clause that states these abilities only work for your units, or was this intentional (Like Skarbrand) ? Edit: One other thing as well; Giving my Sisters of Battle your special issue ammo is nice when you field the Hail of Death
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Post by: redkommando
The rule God of War only effects units in the same army as the model with the special rule
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Post by: chrisrawr
redkommando wrote:The rule God of War only effects units in the same army as the model with the special rule
I figured that, but it doesn't state as much anywhere I've seen.
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Post by: deathstreak2000
The one problem I noticed (in my mind anyway) is that storm shields only cost 5 points in most places. This should probably be higher? Newcron lords have to shed our 45 points for the same invulnerable save so it seems a little cheap when you compare them?
Anyhow, great work and I can't wait for the finished product! Once it's done ill likely use this as it means i can have a Salamanders army without Vulcan in it!
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Post by: redkommando
I figured that, but it doesn't state as much anywhere I've seen.
It does the SM codex
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Post by: chrisrawr
redkommando wrote:I figured that, but it doesn't state as much anywhere I've seen.
It does the SM codex
You missed my point, then Not everyone has an SM codex; should I have to buy the SM codex to use this work, or was it intended to be stand-alone? (For reference, I do have the SM codex. My point was that the upgrades don't state they only work for your army in THIS ruleset.)
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Post by: redkommando
You missed my point, then Not everyone has an SM codex; should I have to buy the SM codex to use this work, or was it intended to be stand-alone? (For reference, I do have the SM codex. My point was that the upgrades don't state they only work for your army in THIS ruleset.)
Ah I see where your' e coming from now
True, True.
Although the Chapter Creator does say that Command Squads and Honour Guards can be taken from the SM Codex
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Post by: ironhandstraken
Could some one explain the beast and them being mounts to me a bit better i'm have trouble understanding how they work.
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Post by: Marik Law
ironhandstraken wrote:Could some one explain the beast and them being mounts to me a bit better i'm have trouble understanding how they work.
Each size of beast provides its own stats and its locomotion (movement type) is transferred to the rider (Slow and Purposeful, Infantry, Cavalry, or Jump Infantry). The mount will cost as much as its base cost plus any locomotion changes and added attributes.
For example, lets say I wanted to have a Hero riding something badass, like a Dragon. I'd start with using the Monstrous Beast base (20 points), which naturally provides +3 modified Toughness, +2 Strength, and +1 Attack to the rider. Dragons have wings, so I make the mount Flying for +18 points, which makes the rider count as Jump Infantry and brings the mount's points total up to 38. Dragons breath fire, so I'll add Flame Breath to the mount for +20 points (bringing the mounts cost up to 58 points). Now because of the sheer bulk of the dragon I want to add more wounds to the rider, so I give the mount Hard to Kill (+1 Wound to the rider) for +15 points (bringing the mounts cost up to 73 points).
Voila, you now have your Dragon mount which confers the model the ability to have a Flamestorm Cannon attack in the shooting phase and provides +3 modified Toughness, +2 Strength, +1 Attack, and +1 Wound for 73 points.
You can also reserve engineer a unit simply by reading the riding beast section using a similar method as described above.
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Post by: ironhandstraken
So depending on what you give the mount is what the rider has.
- ironhandstraken
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Post by: Marik Law
ironhandstraken wrote:So depending on what you give the mount is what the rider has.
- ironhandstraken
Pretty much. There are limitations though, which are listed in the entry.
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Post by: abhus
Heey, this is epic, i can finally make my Luna Wolves by using the Vanilla marine codex.
These are some good news.
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Post by: Marik Law
abhus wrote:Heey, this is epic, i can finally make my Luna Wolves by using the Vanilla marine codex.
These are some good news.
I'm in the process of making a Space Marines fan codex which will basically incorporate a more simplistic, streamlined version of these rules.
I'll eventually get back on those Psychic Powers, but for now my InDesign exploded so that will have to wait now. x.x
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Post by: chrisrawr
I love you Marik. Played a game this morning with furious rend marines. SHOOTING PHASE? I THINK YOU MEAN RUNNING PHASE.
One thing:
Tanks. Tanks do not mention fire points or access points. I want my 45 Point 13/11/10 Assault Rhinos, but I can't enter or exit them.
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Post by: Marik Law
chrisrawr wrote:I love you Marik. Played a game this morning with furious rend marines. SHOOTING PHASE? I THINK YOU MEAN RUNNING PHASE.
One thing:
Tanks. Tanks do not mention fire points or access points. I want my 45 Point 13/11/10 Assault Rhinos, but I can't enter or exit them.
These are the same as they are in Codex Space Marines.
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Post by: ironhandstraken
Are you planning on making another for a different army E.G. chaos space marines
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Post by: chrisrawr
Marik Law wrote:chrisrawr wrote:I love you Marik. Played a game this morning with furious rend marines. SHOOTING PHASE? I THINK YOU MEAN RUNNING PHASE.
One thing:
Tanks. Tanks do not mention fire points or access points. I want my 45 Point 13/11/10 Assault Rhinos, but I can't enter or exit them.
These are the same as they are in Codex Space Marines.
I might be missing some key element of this process. Also, for creating a custom unit; I can have 14 point jump pack models wielding rapid-fire infernus pistols or rapid-fire rending flamers (which increases both of their ranges to 12", by the way). Non-bolter weapons probably need a points cost. There should also be a clause limiting the points per model for units to a certain cap; "Apply all negative modifiers first. This cannot normally reduce points below 14 for non-sergeant models." Also, Minor Chapter Tactics - does that simply apply to the Captain, or does the entire army get it? And finally, there are no "space marine tanks" in the CSM5E. I might be missing a replacement clause here that makes them Rhinos. Shield of the Emperor: I think you want this to lift the ban on Storm Shields negating +1 attacks from 2CCW? Might need a rewording for that, because it doesn't quite do it as is.
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Post by: Marik Law
ironhandstraken wrote:Are you planning on making another for a different army E.G. chaos space marines
Sadly no. This was a huge undertaking for me, one that I will not be repeating again. I'll either be making army codex books or supplement books from now on, nothing this drastic.
chrisrawr wrote:I might be missing some key element of this process.
Also, for creating a custom unit; I can have 14 point jump pack models wielding rapid-fire infernus pistols or rapid-fire rending flamers (which increases both of their ranges to 12", by the way). Non-bolter weapons probably need a points cost. There should also be a clause limiting the points per model for units to a certain cap; "Apply all negative modifiers first. This cannot normally reduce points below 14 for non-sergeant models."
Also, Minor Chapter Tactics - does that simply apply to the Captain, or does the entire army get it?
And finally, there are no "space marine tanks" in the CSM5E. I might be missing a replacement clause here that makes them Rhinos.
Shield of the Emperor: I think you want this to lift the ban on Storm Shields negating +1 attacks from 2CCW? Might need a rewording for that, because it doesn't quite do it as is.
1) The document requires Codex Space Marines to use. Hence why some things are purposely left out.
2) On unit creation, I don't know how you accomplished this, the lowest point cost I could get a Squad with Jump Packs is 19 points per model and that was by lowering their BS to 3. You cannot Rapid Fire modify a pistol (the entry for Rapid Fire modification clearly says Assault only, where as an Inferno pistol is classified as a Pistol, not Assault). Also I neglected to put in that you can't upgrade a Template range weapon to Rapid Fire either, that will be fixed in the final version. Also, wargear can't be a negative value, it is either Free or costs points (so if the piece of wargear was -5 points, it would simply be Free instead). Weapon point costs are balanced in terms of statistics, personally I don't think that any of the weapons listed needs to be labeled as "on par" with a Plasma Pistol, as then options like the Plasma Pistol become an obvious choice.
3) If its a Chapter Trait or a Chapter Tactic, it benefits the whole army unless the trait or tactic in question says otherwise. For example, some Trait/Tactic entries say that they do not effect Vehicles or do not effect models in Terminator armour.
4) A "Tank" is a Rhino chassis, the reason I labeled it "Tank" is because A) that's what they are, and B) the designation Rhino only belongs to that transport vehicle. So the "Tank" mentioned in the Chapter Creator rules is an armored vehicle which uses a Rhino chassis as a base, like virtually every Space Marine tank apart from the Land Raider.
5) For the storm shield rule, this is being removed in the final version. For the time being, these are add-on rules so always assume that if a rule in the Chapter Creator contradicts or overrides a rule in Codex Space Marines, go along with the Chapter Creator.
Any further questions, let me know.
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Post by: chrisrawr
1) Sorry,I meant in the document itself. I have the C:SM5E, so I was just wondering.
2) Unit creation doesn't allow for special rules from section 6, then? Because there's the gunfighter special rule. Slow and purposeful doesn't really bother me as I've got jump packs, poor vision doesn't bother me beacuse I've got templates, and neither does -bs. There's a couple others that can artificially lower the points cost, especially when used with modifiers.
3) Awesome, just checking! Now, on the same bent, if I don't take chapter tactics and instead put them into my Combat Practices, does this effectively give me 4 Combat Practices and a Company or Minor Company Tactic?
4) Alright just making sure. It wasn't explicitely stated anywhere. There's also nothing restricting firepoints when you reduce transport capacity to 'razorback' mode (i.e. you can make cheap 'razorbacks' with 2 fire points. Beastly for devsquads!)
5) Alright :C I miss my Ork equivalent of awesome. And I've usually gone with specific trumps general; so yes it's an extra weapon in CC, but no you still wouldn't benefit from it xD Which is why I thought it seemed silly even though the intent is clear.
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Post by: Greyish
This is a lot to read through Marik Law but there's one question that has immediately popped into mind was the points for the characteristics. S has a steeper gradient on the 'to-wound' table than WS does on the 'to-hit' and accounts towards other factors (Instant Death). So why is it less expensive? Personally I would have marked WS at 5pts per increment and S at 10pts.
Will probably find many more questions later but I need to find some time to read it first. Nice production work though. InDesign or Xpress?
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Post by: Marik Law
chrisrawr wrote:1) Sorry,I meant in the document itself. I have the C:SM5E, so I was just wondering.
2) Unit creation doesn't allow for special rules from section 6, then? Because there's the gunfighter special rule. Slow and purposeful doesn't really bother me as I've got jump packs, poor vision doesn't bother me beacuse I've got templates, and neither does -bs. There's a couple others that can artificially lower the points cost, especially when used with modifiers.
3) Awesome, just checking! Now, on the same bent, if I don't take chapter tactics and instead put them into my Combat Practices, does this effectively give me 4 Combat Practices and a Company or Minor Company Tactic?
4) Alright just making sure. It wasn't explicitely stated anywhere. There's also nothing restricting firepoints when you reduce transport capacity to 'razorback' mode (i.e. you can make cheap 'razorbacks' with 2 fire points. Beastly for devsquads!)
5) Alright :C I miss my Ork equivalent of awesome. And I've usually gone with specific trumps general; so yes it's an extra weapon in CC, but no you still wouldn't benefit from it xD Which is why I thought it seemed silly even though the intent is clear.
2) Sadly I neglected to put a limit in for the other way around, I also neglected to put in rules preventing certain units from taking certain downsides (like Assault or Bike squads taking Slow & Purposeful). This will be fixed in the final version.
3) Yes, that is correct. If you take no Chapter Tactics you can take two additional Combat Practices/Deviations, but note that you are still limited to a single Deviation.
4) Basically if you give the tank a Light Turret or Heavy Turret, that firepoint is removed. This will be clarified in the final version.
Greyish wrote:This is a lot to read through Marik Law but there's one question that has immediately popped into mind was the points for the characteristics. S has a steeper gradient on the 'to-wound' table than WS does on the 'to-hit' and accounts towards other factors (Instant Death). So why is it less expensive? Personally I would have marked WS at 5pts per increment and S at 10pts.
Will probably find many more questions later but I need to find some time to read it first. Nice production work though. InDesign or Xpress?
The book isn't playtested, so any playtesting received is awesome.
As for the program, InDesign. I do professional work so I always default to InDesign.
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Post by: chrisrawr
I'm going through it with some friends on vassal. We're breaking things - this is good, because it means that problems in it are being addressed. We're making lists of things that are confusing in practice, or that take a little leap of intuition to realize RAI.
It's Solid. It's really solid. There's always going to be some broken things going on when you give people this many options - Theoretical Optimization comes into play and you get some really powerful options (Like 55 point T5 Assault Terminator troops with FNP and first turn assault in 170 point invincible boxes that get +1 +1d6 attacks that trigger more attacks, led by a T7 Termichampion that makes all your vehicles into AV14 stormraven-waveserpents.)
Or relentless super-heavy scouts with 2+ cover saves that take shooting at -3BS.
We haven't gotten to designing custom wargear yet.
But yes, the most broken thing I've made so far has been Turn 1 double-rending-rerolling-wounds-flamer swarms. They are like bees that shoot fire. Statistical average for 150 points of them hitting 3 per template against MEQ has been 16.6666 rends and 16.66666 regular wounds.
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Post by: Marik Law
chrisrawr wrote:I'm going through it with some friends on vassal. We're breaking things - this is good, because it means that problems in it are being addressed. We're making lists of things that are confusing in practice, or that take a little leap of intuition to realize RAI.
It's Solid. It's really solid. There's always going to be some broken things going on when you give people this many options - Theoretical Optimization comes into play and you get some really powerful options (Like 55 point T5 Assault Terminator troops with FNP and first turn assault in 170 point invincible boxes that get +1 +1d6 attacks that trigger more attacks, led by a T7 Termichampion that makes all your vehicles into AV14 stormraven-waveserpents.)
Or relentless super-heavy scouts with 2+ cover saves that take shooting at -3BS.
We haven't gotten to designing custom wargear yet.
But yes, the most broken thing I've made so far has been Turn 1 double-rending-rerolling-wounds-flamer swarms. They are like bees that shoot fire. Statistical average for 150 points of them hitting 3 per template against MEQ has been 16.6666 rends and 16.66666 regular wounds.
Well any problems you find with balancing, put them into a point list and describe how you managed to break each one. I'll attempt to correct it in the final version.
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Post by: chrisrawr
One thing that's really fun: Shunt-Warping (because you can apparently make you vehicles into jump infantry <3) dreadnaught jumper hero with 2+ cover that pretty much ignores what little firing hits him through fields and magic. Using an S8 weapon (since all weapons are S8) you need 215 ap1 shots to wreck it on average.
Monstrous Creature (+1d6 pen, power weapon) costs 10, compared to 8 points for +1d6 pen and power weapon.
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Post by: jgehunter
chrisrawr wrote:One thing that's really fun: Shunt-Warping (because you can apparently make you vehicles into jump infantry <3) dreadnaught jumper hero with 2+ cover that pretty much ignores what little firing hits him through fields and magic. Using an S8 weapon (since all weapons are S8) you need 215 ap1 shots to wreck it on average.
Monstrous Creature (+1d6 pen, power weapon) costs 10, compared to 8 points for +1d6 pen and power weapon.
But with MC I belief you get advantages when moving through terrain
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Post by: Lordmenistis
I'm going to use this to make my space marines Night Guard chapter!
So far just have the chapter master:
Menistis the guard Lord- 230
1) 6 7 4 4 3 6 4 10 3+/4+
power armor, shield of Theastis, Keteasal bolter, Frag and Krak grenades, iron halo
special rules: ATSKNF, stealth, move through cover, independent character, god of war, Lone warrior
Shield: for every failed attack a str 4 attack is dealt back to attacking enemy, chaos gains the preferred enemy rule against this unit
Keteasal flamer: template s4 ap 5 gets hot! poison (4+), rending
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Post by: chrisrawr
jgehunter wrote:chrisrawr wrote:One thing that's really fun: Shunt-Warping (because you can apparently make you vehicles into jump infantry <3) dreadnaught jumper hero with 2+ cover that pretty much ignores what little firing hits him through fields and magic. Using an S8 weapon (since all weapons are S8) you need 215 ap1 shots to wreck it on average.
Monstrous Creature (+1d6 pen, power weapon) costs 10, compared to 8 points for +1d6 pen and power weapon.
But with MC I belief you get advantages when moving through terrain
It's for attacks in close combat only, so not really applicable here.
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Post by: jgehunter
chrisrawr wrote:jgehunter wrote:chrisrawr wrote:One thing that's really fun: Shunt-Warping (because you can apparently make you vehicles into jump infantry <3) dreadnaught jumper hero with 2+ cover that pretty much ignores what little firing hits him through fields and magic. Using an S8 weapon (since all weapons are S8) you need 215 ap1 shots to wreck it on average.
Monstrous Creature (+1d6 pen, power weapon) costs 10, compared to 8 points for +1d6 pen and power weapon.
But with MC I belief you get advantages when moving through terrain
It's for attacks in close combat only, so not really applicable here.
My bad, should have read it first
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Post by: Merc Row
Just wondering when we could expect the final version?
Me and a mate have printed it out and I quite like is so I am going with a Siege-Marines kind of theme (and being able to take IG Basalisk's, that is awesome).
there are a couple of things I want to ask:
1. I want to mod a Snpier rifle to give it Lance, Melta and Get's Hot! with the ammo thing can I do that? and do I still get the rules for a normal sniper (eg Pinning+Rending)?
2. After reading most of this thread I did realise that I could make weapons, rules and wargear cheaper by give negative modifiers that won't make a diffrence anyway.
3. When you could change the standard equipment it list's stuff like Storm Shields, Power Fists, Lighting Claws and a few others that you can only get by buying the with points. do you need to have the Combat pratice for it (i.e Shields of the Emporer for Storm Shields) to give it to them?
Thats all I can think about
Cheers
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Post by: Marik Law
Merc Row wrote:Just wondering when we could expect the final version?
Me and a mate have printed it out and I quite like is so I am going with a Siege-Marines kind of theme (and being able to take IG Basalisk's, that is awesome).
there are a couple of things I want to ask:
1. I want to mod a Snpier rifle to give it Lance, Melta and Get's Hot! with the ammo thing can I do that? and do I still get the rules for a normal sniper (eg Pinning+Rending)?
2. After reading most of this thread I did realise that I could make weapons, rules and wargear cheaper by give negative modifiers that won't make a diffrence anyway.
3. When you could change the standard equipment it list's stuff like Storm Shields, Power Fists, Lighting Claws and a few others that you can only get by buying the with points. do you need to have the Combat pratice for it (i.e Shields of the Emporer for Storm Shields) to give it to them?
Thats all I can think about
Cheers
Won't be for a bit unfortunately as I have a deadline for a major card game project due next week, so my free time is pretty limited right now.
1) Yes, but it would cost you 20 points.
2) This is being fixed/changed in the next version.
3) If a unit in Codex Space Marines does not already have something than yes, you must use Combat Practices or Chapter Traits. The Unit Creator section, in and of itself, has its own restrictions and limitations to the number of new units you can create or the number of units from the codex you can replace.
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Post by: ironhandstraken
Hey, is there any rules it there that can let you do something the the grey knight ghost knights?
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Post by: do you hear the voices to
This document is gorgeous and I wanted to show my support.
How long did it take to put that together?
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Post by: TheRobotLol
great and very well put together!
But i've being waiting on that 91% for oh so long...
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Post by: Vampirate of Sartosa
Here's my attempt.
Fire Lords
Combat Practices
Cleanse And Purify – All flamers, heavy flamer, meltaguns and multi-meltas count as twin-linked. Heavy Weapons users may replace heavy bolters with flamers or plasma cannons with meltaguns.
Death From Above- Units equipped with Jump Packs or mounted in Drop Pods re-roll failed Deep Strike reserve roles and only scatter D6”.
Suffer Not the Work of Heretics- All non-vehicle units & Dreadnoughts in the army have Tank Hunters.
Chapter Tactics
Descend and Destroy- All squads must be mounted in a vehicle (Dreadnoughts must be in a drop pod), equipped with a jump pack, or with the Infiltrate/Scouts special rules. All vehicles have Deep Strike, and models without Infiltrate or Scouts must Deep Strike in, following the rules for the Drop Pod Assault special rule.
Chapter Master Jaric Phoros- 270 points
WS6 – BS6 – S4 – T3 – W4 – I5 – A3 – Ld10 – Sv2+
Special Rules: And They Shall Know No Fear, Suffer Not the Work of Heretics, Descend and Destroy, Cleanse And Purify, Do Not Yield, Tactical, Master of the Chapter
Tactical: As long as Phoros is on the table, you may re-roll any reserve rolls – even successful ones.
Do Not Yield: Phoros and his squad have the Counter-Attack special rule.
Equipment: Artificer armour, Pyreblade, Fires of Redemption, frag and krak grenades, meltabombs, Iron Halo
Fires of Redemption: Range: Template – S:6 – AP:4 – Type: Assault 2
Pyreblade: The Pyreblade is a Relic Blade that ignores Invulnerable Saves.
Rules build below:
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Post by: thelordwatchman
hers my attempt
the blood watchmen
combat practices
master your craft
any sergeant in the chapter who dose not already have artificer Armour or terminator armour may purchase artificer armour for +10 points (per model upgrade). any indepenet characters with artificer armour automatically gain the eternal warior universal special rule
swift and deadly
all non-veicle models gain fleet
chapter tactics
Knowlege is power
through faith we gain strength
chapter master the lord watchman
WS 7– BS5 – S5 – T5 – W4 – I5 – A5 – Ld10 – Sv2+
Special Rules: And They Shall Know No Fear, god of war,eternal warior, fleet, hated by chaos, preferd enemy all, lone warior, sap, rage,
Equipment:terminator heavens piller, storm bolter, hell dart,
heavens piller: storm sheild, hated relic eldar
hell dart: awkward, daemon bane, labourd (i1), psycher bane, power weapon
by my maths it equals 300
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Post by: Marik Law
do you hear the voices to wrote:This document is gorgeous and I wanted to show my support.
How long did it take to put that together?
I'd say well over a combined total of over 24 hours worth of work, though thats just rough estimate as I don't really keep track of time while I'm creating.
ironhandstraken wrote:Hey, is there any rules it there that can let you do something the the grey knight ghost knights?
If you can provide info on what you're talking about I can try to accomodate.
As to the others about how long its taking, I ask that you please be patient. I have other commitments right now (two jobs) that are strangling all my time so odds are I won't be able to continue work on this again until at least mid-April.
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Post by: chrisrawr
Bah, I'd had a fancy Mutants list worked out, but my computer died and I lost the post.
Basic gist of it was the company was horrendously corrupted in a fight against a Chaos Serpent, turning otherwise loyal space marines into hideous monsters. They were banished, but not forsaken - sent out with some of the chapter's finest apothecaries, to see them through their final battles as they dwindle in number.
mechanically, they're S5 T5 Fleet, slow and purposeful marines with furious charge, D6 extra rending attacks, rerolling to hit, with 2base+1 for 2CCW wielding 2 CCW (as they have no access to armouries anymore, they've reverted to using whatever is on-hand).
They support their captain - the marine who slew the serpent, and made a weapon of its great fangs. The Serpents' Fangs are a pair of Power Weapons that ignore invuln and double strength. The entire army is hated by Space Marines, but the captain is specifically hated by chaos as well.
If you hadn't guessed, their basic gist is that they slowly weather every type of fire the enemy can throw at them, run into close combat, and attack like dozens of melee assault cannons.
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Post by: Tiger9gamer
I Like the chapter creator a lot! I hope some guy at my local GW will let me test it out (at least the captain) and things, Is there an updated copy of it or is it on the front page? thanks ^^
Here is my captain I made up, the combat practises uses the fist of the emperor rule for master crafted power fists (maybe) and suffer not the heretic to live.
Captain novem-197p
WS-6 BS-6 S-5 T-5 W-3 I-6 A-3 Ld-10 Sv-+3
+20 for third special rule thing. (or 10 for 2nd special rule)
Wargear: Power armor, Iron halo, Power-Fist (master crafted) storm bolter with x2 piercing (makeing it AP 3?) and twin linked.
Special rule: Rapid shot (ranged only) relentless (orders)
(Did i do this right? and would the power fist make my characters strength 10?)
And the unit he will be fighting with an 8 man stern guard squad with a vanilla librarian that has force dome and null zone and have one member of the stern guard squad be replaced with a Apothecary for 25 points. So if im right, The whole squad will get an extra shot as long as they are within 12"?
(need help with this please x-x)
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Post by: Angrypuffin
I just found this. I think it's worth the necro. Hopefully we can inspire Marik Law to update for 6e!
I'd also like to share a couple of my creations.
Unique Unit #1: Dragon Guard: Space marines riding flying monstrous creatures! Sounds like dragons to me.
Jump infantry. 3 models, 160 points; up to 7 more models for +50 each.
WS 5 / BS 4 / S 6 / T 7 / W 1 / I 5 / A 3 / Ld 8 / Sv 3++
I think that is hilariously awesome. I would love to field these guys. They would be so tough!
Unique Unit #2: Dragon Rangers
WS 4 / BS 5 / S 4 / T 4 / W 1 / I 4 / A 1 / Ld 8 / Sv 3+
Special Issue Ammunition
Jump infantry. 5 models for 170 points; Add up to 5 more models for +32 points each.
Fly around the battlefield peppering your enemy with accurate vengeance rounds. That sounds unbelievably fun.
Okay, getting serious.
My one question for today is the relationship between Wargear and Wargear Options. I can't see a way to have a squad that's generally toting power swords (for instance), but allows for one or more members to change to a power fist. I think that'd be useful in a fair number of cases. Are you allowed to give an individual model (say, a sergeant) any item from the "Wargear" list?
Also, I would like to request consideration of the special issue boltgun ammo cost. 10 points may be a few points too high.
Vanilla Sternguard Veterans: 25 ppm
Chapter Creator equivalent: 29 ppm
Remember, too, that Sternguard veterans do not pay a 10 point premium for a sergeant. Maybe if someone pays for both +1 attack and +1 leadership, they should no longer have to pay for a sergeant. Not sure how that would work.
I know it's very complicated to get all these systems working together! I really appreciate the work that's gone into this, and hope it can be a source of fun for many in the new edition.
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Post by: Tesunie
I have been thinking of something like this for my Fire Drake, as probably a commander, not a normal choice for squads. However, as a 50 point model, sound WAY too cheap for what they can do. Should probably be at least 100 points, or more. Look to the Dreadnight for some guidance on this one. Also, a storm shield should be costing you a minimum of +15 points, as any unit I've seen that can take a storm shield, even in a squad, has to at least pay that much. Even the Black Templar, replacing their bolt pistol and sacrificing all range combat and their extra attack in close combat, must pay 15 points per. Along with the Dark Angel Veterans, who can just take it.
When referencing to the codex creator, I know you can do all sorts of things that can be "really powerful", but try to be reasonable and try to think if it's going to be balanced before you place it in. Of course, I suggest test playing everything with a friend first and see what they feel about it. But consider this when you make a new unit, would you want to fight against it? Maybe find a unit that is worth the same points and test them against each other. Same points (in theory) should mean they should be at an even standing, especially if you are talking marine vs marine.
I do like how it's a 1 wound model though, but from the description, I'd consider making it a bit more expensive to take, and make them two wounds. You are talking a monstrous creature here, right?
Angrypuffin wrote:I just found this. I think it's worth the necro. Hopefully we can inspire Marik Law to update for 6e!
I'd also like to share a couple of my creations.
Unique Unit #1: Dragon Guard: Space marines riding flying monstrous creatures! Sounds like dragons to me.
Jump infantry. 3 models, 160 points; up to 7 more models for +50 each.
WS 5 / BS 4 / S 6 / T 7 / W 1 / I 5 / A 3 / Ld 8 / Sv 3++
I think that is hilariously awesome. I would love to field these guys. They would be so tough!
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Post by: chrisrawr
Whenever I make something I think might be too strong for its points, I just add points until I wouldn't pick it anymore, and then shave points off until I feel "hey that's kinda worth it!"
usually ends up adding 5 or 6 ppm, but one time I ended up adding 80 points to a tank :Z
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Post by: Marik Law
Sadly there won't be a 6th Ed update for this, it's pretty much a semi-dead project that evolved into me making my own Space Marine codex instead. I'll leave this up for now though and may get back to it eventually, but for the time being it is what it is.
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Post by: Rocketmike
Can't blame ya for not taking the project any further. A ton of work has gone into it already and then to have to rework it because GW want to make more money by making everyone buy new rule books and codices is just infuriating I'm sure. I'm glad to have it for what it is. It has been very helpful in formulating my own chapter. I haven't stuck to it in many cases, but it has been invaluable as a reference for making approximations on point values, etc. It's also been very handy to get the creative juices flowing. Thanks for all the work you put into this . When I'm done with the fluff and the core units that are unique to the army, I'll post something for them.
*Grumbles about having barely even used his 5th ed. rule book* 
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Post by: Vampirate of Sartosa
Aw, nuts. I was looking forward to a 6ed update for this. Oh well.
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