I noticed in the recently released GW annual report (more details here ) that sales this period have dropped in Australia by 11.8%:

Reported sales decreased by 2.7% to £123.1 million for the year. However, on a constant currency basis, sales were down by 2.9% from
£126.5 million to £122.8 million; progress was achieved in Emerging Markets and Japan (+2.1%) and in the Other business units (+7%) while
sales in Continental Europe (+0.6%) were flat. UK (-6.3%), North America (-4.8%) and Australia (-11.8%) were in decline.

This seems like a significantly large amount. So what has made the figures drop so much? Sure there are a lot of issues people would like to soapbox about (namedly outrageous prices, poor staff, etc), but can we narrow this down to a specific set of factors or just the general creep of poor merchandising? (Please keep in mind these figures don't reflect the release of fine-cast or the changes to online distribution etc, as these occurred post-period)

mal wrote:I noticed in the recently released GW annual report (more details here ) that sales this period have dropped in Australia by 11.8%:

Reported sales decreased by 2.7% to £123.1 million for the year. However, on a constant currency basis, sales were down by 2.9% from
£126.5 million to £122.8 million; progress was achieved in Emerging Markets and Japan (+2.1%) and in the Other business units (+7%) while
sales in Continental Europe (+0.6%) were flat. UK (-6.3%), North America (-4.8%) and Australia (-11.8%) were in decline.

This seems like a significantly large amount. So what has made the figures drop so much? Sure there are a lot of issues people would like to soapbox about (namedly outrageous prices, poor staff, etc), but can we narrow this down to a specific set of factors or just the general creep of poor merchandising? (Please keep in mind these figures don't reflect the release of fine-cast or the changes to online distribution etc, as these occurred post-period)

Those figures represent the period June 2010 - May 2011, so they exclude the halting of UK/US-based internet sales to Australia, Finecast, and recent price rise which took place after the financial year end. We won't see the impact of those until GW report their first 6 months trading results for the period June - November 2011 in January 2012.

Having said that, there were a couple of things I can think of that might have had an impact:

1. The May 2010 price rise, which was pretty much as savage as this year's, and
2. The introduction of Warhammer FB 8th edition. 7th edition was very popular with the tournament scene in Oz, and 8th ed not so much (more details of the impact of 8th ed. can be gleaned from listening to back episodes of Podhammer). Traditionally the tournament scene has not been viewed as a major part of GW sales, but I would wager that in Oz this may not have been the case, as in many ways its tournament scene was way more developed than that in the US and the UK at the time. It may have played a much bigger part in a smaller market.
3. Increase in competition. Battlefront, Privateer Press, Wyrd Miniatures, Mantic and Spartan Games in particular seem to be really taking hold in Oz according to the World's End Podcast.

But those are just guesses. There's likely no single cause, but those would be my main candidates.

Osbad wrote:Those figures represent the period June 2010 - May 2011, so they exclude the halting of UK/US-based internet sales to Australia, Finecast, and recent price rise which took place after the financial year end. We won't see the impact of those until GW report their first 6 months trading results for the period June - November 2011 in January 2012.

And won't that make for an interesting read?

Howard A Treesong wrote:And won't that make for an interesting read?

Not really. Here, I'll tell you what it will say so you don't have to wait 6 months in anticipation for it:

"Our sales in Australia/New Zealand are down 16%. The only logical solution is a 17% price increase."

squidhills wrote:

Howard A Treesong wrote:And won't that make for an interesting read?

Not really. Here, I'll tell you what it will say so you don't have to wait 6 months in anticipation for it:

"Our sales in Australia/New Zealand are down 16%. The only logical solution is a 17% price increase."

Makes sense to me

That drop in % is probably why they put on the embargo. They were losing money to internet stores.

You know what this means - PUT UP THE PRICES!

Bat Manuel wrote:That drop in % is probably why they put on the embargo. They were losing money to internet stores.

Which is sensible if you have a near-monopoly on a necessity item. Not sensible if you sell luxury items, in a market with increasing competition, during a recession.

I really don't think anyone is surprised at seeing the decline. However, what is surprising is that this was before the fine-cast and debacle.

I cannot imagine what the past month's numbers has been like.

Osbad, i agree with the WFB and competition points. I do doubt that the price increase made much of an impact.

Phototoxin wrote:You know what this means - PUT UP THE PRICES!

I'm afraid if the prices go up again, this soon, I'm going to finally glue all my figures together into a katamari ball.

Holy_doctrine wrote:

Phototoxin wrote:You know what this means - PUT UP THE PRICES!

I'm afraid if the prices go up again, this soon, I'm going to finally glue all my figures together into a katamari ball.

Katamari 40k anyone? I got a chuckle out of how they were posting their "emerging markets" growth like it was going to suprise us. If they are emerging I doubt a 7% rise is much, however, the falling of sales in an established market (Aus, UK, and North America) would hit them harder. Here's hoping that GW stops being evil money/sales counting robots and get their human parts put back in.

I'm still waiting to hear the official GW position of sales growth! (negative) in Aus. I'm thinking it will be along the lines of "My foot just went down several inches ! ... Sir, i think that's because you trod in a hole... But I'm still going foreward!"

Where does this 11.8% figure for Austalia come from?

The revenue last year was £10,795,000
The revenue this year was £10,630,000
A difference of £165,000, or 1.6%

Strange that you failed to notice the £405,000 opertaing loss, or the £500,000 increase in costs - which may lie at the root of the change in the terms of the sales contract with the online retailers, and relate to the strong Aus$.

Or indeed that the costs of operating are about half of what they are in the UK, but the sales are a third - which might explain the price difference between the divisions of the company.

Still the stock market seems happy with the results, the shares were up 24 today.

marielle wrote:Where does this 11.8% figure for Austalia come from?

Or indeed that the costs of operating are about half of what they are in the UK, but the sales are a third - which might explain the price difference between the divisions of the company.

Probably, but that could be solved if they reduced the number of stores in AUS or even just letting independant retailers take over. Then they would have 0 operating costs and hobbiests would be better off.

To put it in perspective in my home town of a bit over 1 millon people there are THREE GW stores in high profile and hence high rent storefronts in malls and shoping arcades. The only reason for this is a) Advertising and b) To choke out independant store competition. Which has a negitive effect on the hobby as a whole.

At the end of the day I realy dont feel like paying the Australian "Advertising and Monopoly" surcharge that GW charges over here.

I’m hoping the next report has an even larger decline in sales. The sooner GW reaps what the sow, the better.

Still the stock market seems happy with the results, the shares were up 24 today.

Means Jack Gakk.
The institutions buying shares don't have any concept of GW operations.
They will only see the dividends being paid out.

GAW share prices rose when people were spitting feathers about the RoW embargo, price rises and Finecast.

mal wrote:I noticed in the recently released GW annual report (more details here ) that sales this period have dropped in Australia by 11.8%:

Reported sales decreased by 2.7% to £123.1 million for the year. However, on a constant currency basis, sales were down by 2.9% from
£126.5 million to £122.8 million; progress was achieved in Emerging Markets and Japan (+2.1%) and in the Other business units (+7%) while
sales in Continental Europe (+0.6%) were flat. UK (-6.3%), North America (-4.8%) and Australia (-11.8%) were in decline.

This seems like a significantly large amount. So what has made the figures drop so much? Sure there are a lot of issues people would like to soapbox about (namedly outrageous prices, poor staff, etc), but can we narrow this down to a specific set of factors or just the general creep of poor merchandising? (Please keep in mind these figures don't reflect the release of fine-cast or the changes to online distribution etc, as these occurred post-period)

With the embargo, why am I not surprised by any of this?

marielle wrote:Where does this 11.8% figure for Austalia come from?

The revenue last year was £10,795,000
The revenue this year was £10,630,000
A difference of £165,000, or 1.6%

Strange that you failed to notice the £405,000 opertaing loss, or the £500,000 increase in costs - which may lie at the root of the change in the terms of the sales contract with the online retailers, and relate to the strong Aus$.

Maybe the difference lies in the Aus $ / GBP exchange rate differences. If the Oz $ got stronger by 10% while sales decreased 10%, you wouldn't see a difference when compared only in GBP.

Probably, but that could be solved if they reduced the number of stores in AUS or even just letting independant retailers take over. Then they would have 0 operating costs and hobbiests would be better off.

To put it in perspective in my home town of a bit over 1 millon people there are THREE GW stores in high profile and hence high rent storefronts in malls and shoping arcades. The only reason for this is a) Advertising and b) To choke out independant store competition. Which has a negitive effect on the hobby as a whole.

At the end of the day I realy dont feel like paying the Australian "Advertising and Monopoly" surcharge that GW charges over here.

As the Australian division has gone into the red, maybe this is what will happen.

But it looks like GW have decided they are going to make an effort to make the division work, at least in the short term.

I really wouldn't mind GW stores going at all. I shop at my FLGS anyway, who carries a far better range of stuff. The only product I consider going to GW for is Finecast for a faster turnaround on any returns I might need to make.

To be fair though, my local GW store ihas quite a few customers on Thursday night and Sunday, but they just seem redundant when there's a good LGS.

-Loki- wrote:I really wouldn't mind GW stores going at all. I shop at my FLGS anyway, who carries a far better range of stuff. The only product I consider going to GW for is Finecast for a faster turnaround on any returns I might need to make.

To be fair though, my local GW store ihas quite a few customers on Thursday night and Sunday, but they just seem redundant when there's a good LGS.

But of course, you and you alone define the entire Australian market.

It's my understanding, Kouzuki, from speaking to several Australians that few utilize the official GW stores.

Kouzuki wrote:But of course, you and you alone define the entire Australian market.

Was there a point to that comment beyond trying to start an argument?

He was quite clearly just stating a personal opinion.

insaniak wrote:

Kouzuki wrote:But of course, you and you alone define the entire Australian market.

Was there a point to that comment beyond trying to start an argument?

He was quite clearly just stating a personal opinion.

well, any other suggestions as to what to do? All discussions are at the very core, arguments. Differing thoughts and opinions is what drives discussion.

If you look at it that way, I was trying to start a discussion.

Considering several of the stores actively push people away with their policies I seriously doubt it's going to get better. I've been to 3 gw's in the sydney area. The only one I'd even think of going to is the parramatta store as they aren't elitist Dbags. The amount I got talked down to in the other stores, then told I couldn't play because my armies aren't 'based properly' (I seriously don't like the look of most of the bases i can do. and it's way too much work for me to do it 'properly'. I can just pretend it's not there when it's basic black) whereas my FLGS lets me play using anything I damn well please, and sells me the models at a discount... hmm, where am I going to buy/play? The paramatta store I was going to start frequenting before the embargo/price rise/other crap but after... i just cut my ties to GW. If getting a price decrease means no GW stores I'm fully supporting that.
Heck, I'd support that if only to support the hobby itself.

RatBot wrote:It's my understanding, Kouzuki, from speaking to several Australians that few utilize the official GW stores.

Pretty much all of the GW stores in Oz are 1 man jobs, so closed Sun+Mon and only open til 7ish on Thurs at the latest, so not really condusive to use by the over 18 working crowd. I can't imagine they make a lot of money with their shop operations from what I've seen in Sydney, but they absolutely have to be there otherwise they are never going to sell the kids their AOBR boxes as they will never be exposed to the product. Location-wise, the ones in Sydney aren't in "A tier" retail space anyway, the only one that was (Chatswood) moved shops a while back to a less expensive (presumably) location.

FWIW in my experience the staff at the shop have been decent blokes, and not overly pushy at selling you stuff, but there's only so much you can do with a 1 man shop, particularly RE opening hours.

CoI wrote: The amount I got talked down to in the other stores, then told I couldn't play because my armies aren't 'based properly'

FFFF the guys there have done that to me too.

Years ago back when third ed was first released, i bought the box set and painted the space marines. Walked in accepted the redshirts offer (as i was buying the minis he told me i could come in anytime and play him) He tells me "No, you cant play with them like that, what are they? floating in space? you need to fix up the bases before you are allowed to play" He then goes on to explain all the MAGICAL CITADEL PRODUCTS for basing miniatures.

So where were the sales that people in Aus were importing from the UK and US retailers show up?

It couldn't be that this was evidence that internet importers were drastically harming sales in Austrailia was it? Hence the policy at the end of may when they saw the projected numbers... It might even make sense? No... We all know GW should operate at a loss to please a small subset of customers.

nkelsch wrote:So where were the sales that people in Aus were importing from the UK and US retailers show up?

They would show up in the US and UK figures.

It couldn't be that this was evidence that internet importers were drastically harming sales in Austrailia was it?

It's not evidence of that by itself, no. We have no direct evidence that people buying over the internet are affecting Australian sales in theslightest, since we have no way of knowing how many of those people would have been willing to pay Australian prices if buying from overseas were not an option.

If sales pick up next quarter, (since that's where the embargo will have kicked in, sales figures-wise) that would be a hint, though. Still not conclusive, since there are other factors involved... but it would suggest some sort of link. We'll just have to wait and see.

But ultimately, it's not internet retailers that are hurting GW Oz's sales... it's GW Oz's prices compared to the rest of the world that are doing that.

No... We all know GW should operate at a loss to please a small subset of customers.

Nobody thinks GW should operate at a loss. Just that they should stop treating their Australian customers like idiots.

nkelsch wrote:So where were the sales that people in Aus were importing from the UK and US retailers show up?

It couldn't be that this was evidence that internet importers were drastically harming sales in Austrailia was it? Hence the policy at the end of may when they saw the projected numbers... It might even make sense? No... We all know GW should operate at a loss to please a small subset of customers.

When you have five Blood Knights costing 165 dollars, higher than the Battleforce for Vampire Counts which use them, itself is costing 160 dollars, how can you even claim that internet retailers were harming their sales? What customers in Australia are they pleasing exactly? Who were they not putting off with these prices?
How about they start using reasonable prices and the alternative might never have been to use online discount stores like Wayland or Maelstrom.

The problem was always the prices, if they had cut it down to even as much as 30% less, this would not be an issue for them. As it stands we pay far more than Americans have to for no reason, even though currently our dollar is far stronger than theirs and even when it wasn't, we were still close enough that these prices were unfair and unreasonable.

GB to AUS sales would show up in the Northern Europe revenues.

It's going to be interesting to see if those revenues fall because of the export ban.

I simply have to imagine they would, though I admittedly have no idea how many Aussies bought from UK web retailers.

Either way (and this stating the obvious, I think) I can't imagine many people who used to buy from UK/US websites saying "Oh well, guess I'll pay $55 AUD for a box of troops!" so I would be astonished if they see substantial growth in Australia/NZ sales.

Kouzuki wrote:

insaniak wrote:

Kouzuki wrote:But of course, you and you alone define the entire Australian market.

Was there a point to that comment beyond trying to start an argument?

He was quite clearly just stating a personal opinion.

well, any other suggestions as to what to do? All discussions are at the very core, arguments. Differing thoughts and opinions is what drives discussion.

If you look at it that way, I was trying to start a discussion.

Your phrasing of the comment comes over as aggressive and provocative.

Exactly the same information content could have been conveyed by this; "Your personal experiences do not necessarily reflect the broader market." The emotional effect is very different.

nkelsch wrote:So where were the sales that people in Aus were importing from the UK and US retailers show up?

It couldn't be that this was evidence that internet importers were drastically harming sales in Austrailia was it? Hence the policy at the end of may when they saw the projected numbers... It might even make sense? No... We all know GW should operate at a loss to please a small subset of customers.

GW's white knight has appeared as expected.

Back on topic: Would most Aussies bother dealing with the hassle and waiting time associated with overseas shipping if GW had bothered to realign their cost structure somewhere in the last few years? Generally, when I make a purchase, I'd rather not have to wait a month for it to get to me. I think that if GW would bring their prices in Aus. to a level near what the rest of the world pays, then sales in Aus. wouldn't be so bad. If prices in the US were like what they are in Aus., I'd sure as hell be playing another game. It is insulting that GW penalizes one market over others.

GBL wrote:

CoI wrote: The amount I got talked down to in the other stores, then told I couldn't play because my armies aren't 'based properly'

FFFF the guys there have done that to me too.

Years ago back when third ed was first released, i bought the box set and painted the space marines. Walked in accepted the redshirts offer (as i was buying the minis he told me i could come in anytime and play him) He tells me "No, you cant play with them like that, what are they? floating in space? you need to fix up the bases before you are allowed to play" He then goes on to explain all the MAGICAL CITADEL PRODUCTS for basing miniatures.

My god, i can feel a nerd rage rising....
The guys at the Perth store are way more relaxed about not being based, hell half the regular guys armies aren't based, and even more have un painted armies. There's only 1 Dbag employee and he's a Dbag only because he froths over space wolves, like religiously.

Also there are about 4 guys working there, then again perth is a little strange at times

Off topic
Base your minis you lazy gits. How hard can it be to stick some flock on with pva glue?

ps rhetorical question with tongue in cheek

GW should lower their prices, I don't want them to close their store in Wollongong, I would have to travel to Sydney to do hobby.

nkelsch wrote:It couldn't be that this was evidence that internet importers were drastically harming sales in Austrailia was it? Hence the policy at the end of may when they saw the projected numbers... It might even make sense? No... We all know GW should operate at a loss to please a small subset of customers.

No, it doesn't make sense, because you're completely ignoring what caused the use of internet importers. If GW had been willing to sell to Australians at a fair price, they would never have had this problem.

MikZor wrote:

GBL wrote:

CoI wrote: The amount I got talked down to in the other stores, then told I couldn't play because my armies aren't 'based properly'

FFFF the guys there have done that to me too.

Years ago back when third ed was first released, i bought the box set and painted the space marines. Walked in accepted the redshirts offer (as i was buying the minis he told me i could come in anytime and play him) He tells me "No, you cant play with them like that, what are they? floating in space? you need to fix up the bases before you are allowed to play" He then goes on to explain all the MAGICAL CITADEL PRODUCTS for basing miniatures.

My god, i can feel a nerd rage rising....
The guys at the Perth store are way more relaxed about not being based, hell half the regular guys armies aren't based, and even more have un painted armies. There's only 1 Dbag employee and he's a Dbag only because he froths over space wolves, like religiously.

Also there are about 4 guys working there, then again perth is a little strange at times

Back in 2nd edition, my brother was told he couldn't play in the store because his models bases had black trims. He based them properly, but he liked to redo the trim black. They told him they had to be fully painted models with bases that were completely Goblin Green. No other colour, no black trim. He just went to the paint station, painted the trims green, played, and before we left, went back and repainted the trims black at the paint station.

rockerbikie wrote:GW should lower their prices, I don't want them to close their store in Wollongong, I would have to travel to Sydney to do hobby.

as far as i know in regard to the hobby, GW have killed all the retailers in sydney city. feth them.
I was all keen to get back into the hobby, i'm thinking conversions ect...awesome!
Then i realise i don't have any mates who play.
So i now have a choice of the batle bunker (= no conversions) 15% ffs that isnt a conversion.And all my enthusiasm went out the window.
or good games and ...that is...it.
BRING BACK THE FLGS...feth GW STORES.
you americans have it so good!

Tin Soldier in the city just closed.

Bullockist wrote:

rockerbikie wrote:GW should lower their prices, I don't want them to close their store in Wollongong, I would have to travel to Sydney to do hobby.

as far as i know in regard to the hobby, GW have killed all the retailers in sydney city. feth them.
I was all keen to get back into the hobby, i'm thinking conversions ect...awesome!
Then i realise i don't have any mates who play.
So i now have a choice of the batle bunker (= no conversions) 15% ffs that isnt a conversion.And all my enthusiasm went out the window.
or good games and ...that is...it.
BRING BACK THE FLGS...feth GW STORES.
you americans have it so good!

Good Games LOL...

You may never leave alive in that place. Tripping hazards down the stairs, children trying to steal your models before your eyes and the highest prices I have seen outside a GW store.

H.B.M.C. wrote:Tin Soldier in the city just closed.

and I missed the SALE!

That's what i am saying! it seems to be just Good Games vs GW atm, anyone else have good hobby stores in sydney, specially with gaming tables!

If no Austrailians worth their salt are buying GW products at GWOZ prices how is it that GW stores are closing FLGS?

Seriously not everything happens ATM man. They already shut the doors, and the trouble would have started years ago.

notprop wrote:If no Austrailians worth their salt are buying GW products at GWOZ prices how is it that GW stores are closing FLGS?

Same way any other <insert small, privately owned business here> closes. Just because people aren't buying from the LGS doesn't mean they're buying from GW either. GW just has the funds and stubbornness to keep doors open.

notprop wrote:If no Austrailians worth their salt are buying GW products at GWOZ prices how is it that GW stores are closing FLGS?

Basically right now GWOZ is doing a thing that whenever you buy something you have to enter your postcode and I am assuming that they are using it to see which stores are most profitable for people that aren't worth their salt and which ones aren't and then must be closing down the ones that aren't.

Bullockist wrote:That's what i am saying! it seems to be just Good Games vs GW atm, anyone else have good hobby stores in sydney, specially with gaming tables!

Hall of Heroes in Campbelltown mate!

Best store going.

Even the OzPainters hold monthly meets there where you can see some of AUS best painters and modellers and get hands on advice and assistance.

AvatarForm wrote:

Bullockist wrote:That's what i am saying! it seems to be just Good Games vs GW atm, anyone else have good hobby stores in sydney, specially with gaming tables!

Hall of Heroes in Campbelltown mate!

Best store going.

Even the OzPainters hold monthly meets there where you can see some of AUS best painters and modellers and get hands on advice and assistance.

.. what the feth. Small world. That's my FLGS too! Awesome store.

Kirbinator wrote:

notprop wrote:If no Austrailians worth their salt are buying GW products at GWOZ prices how is it that GW stores are closing FLGS?

Same way any other <insert small, privately owned business here> closes. Just because people aren't buying from the LGS doesn't mean they're buying from GW either. GW just has the funds and stubbornness to keep doors open.

which means that the LGS were bound to close down anyway regardless of GW stores in the area.

Independent retailers / FLGS in Australia often pay more for "wholesale" GW product than I could buy off Maelstrom or Wayland. That's one of several reasons they're closing.

Also, nkelsch, surely you are trolling?

-Loki- wrote:

AvatarForm wrote:

Bullockist wrote:That's what i am saying! it seems to be just Good Games vs GW atm, anyone else have good hobby stores in sydney, specially with gaming tables!

Hall of Heroes in Campbelltown mate!

Best store going.

Even the OzPainters hold monthly meets there where you can see some of AUS best painters and modellers and get hands on advice and assistance.

.. what the feth. Small world. That's my FLGS tool. Awesome store.

Holy crap, you two go there as well?
Thats my hometown
I don't go much, but the range and tables there are awesome

I'm usually in there on Thursday night, though only to grab some paints of miniatures. Spent about an hour in there on Sunday with my friend who is getting back into the game, while he poured over everything. Now it's his favorite store as well.

Asuron wrote:

-Loki- wrote:

AvatarForm wrote:

Bullockist wrote:That's what i am saying! it seems to be just Good Games vs GW atm, anyone else have good hobby stores in sydney, specially with gaming tables!

Hall of Heroes in Campbelltown mate!

Best store going.

Even the OzPainters hold monthly meets there where you can see some of AUS best painters and modellers and get hands on advice and assistance.

.. what the feth. Small world. That's my FLGS tool. Awesome store.

Holy crap, you two go there as well?
Thats my hometown
I don't go much, but the range and tables there are awesome

Wow super small world, I have a couple of friends that keep bugging me to go in there sometime, might have to look it up soon after all!

Decent review over at Duke's Inferno:

http://dukesinferno.blogspot.com/2011/07/financial-analysis-of-gw.html#more

Krellnus wrote:

Asuron wrote:

-Loki- wrote:

AvatarForm wrote:

Bullockist wrote:That's what i am saying! it seems to be just Good Games vs GW atm, anyone else have good hobby stores in sydney, specially with gaming tables!

Hall of Heroes in Campbelltown mate!

Best store going.

Even the OzPainters hold monthly meets there where you can see some of AUS best painters and modellers and get hands on advice and assistance.

.. what the feth. Small world. That's my FLGS tool. Awesome store.

Holy crap, you two go there as well?
Thats my hometown
I don't go much, but the range and tables there are awesome

Wow super small world, I have a couple of friends that keep bugging me to go in there sometime, might have to look it up soon after all!

Make sure you have money. The range in there is awesome. I went in the first time after some 40k stuff and spent most of my time checking out Warmahordes, Malifaux and all of the resin stuff they stock. There's even an Ultraforge Pleasuredaemon I really want to grab. Er, buy.

Puma
Thanks for that linky. Makes for very interesting reading and clearly the effects of recent debacles are not reflected in the Annual Report.

The 11% drop in sales is before the RoW embargo.

AvatarForm wrote:

Bullockist wrote:

rockerbikie wrote:GW should lower their prices, I don't want them to close their store in Wollongong, I would have to travel to Sydney to do hobby.

as far as i know in regard to the hobby, GW have killed all the retailers in sydney city. feth them.
I was all keen to get back into the hobby, i'm thinking conversions ect...awesome!
Then i realise i don't have any mates who play.
So i now have a choice of the batle bunker (= no conversions) 15% ffs that isnt a conversion.And all my enthusiasm went out the window.
or good games and ...that is...it.
BRING BACK THE FLGS...feth GW STORES.
you americans have it so good!

Good Games LOL...

You may never leave alive in that place. Tripping hazards down the stairs, children trying to steal your models before your eyes and the highest prices I have seen outside a GW store.

H.B.M.C. wrote:Tin Soldier in the city just closed.

and I missed the SALE!

I prefer to paint with other peopel at my store and it is a hobby free store where I live. The Manager at Good Games Wollongong is not a great guy either, Imagine someone who pushes sales harder than GW.
A conversation with him:
Me: Hi
Him: Hey, want to buy something?
Me: Yes, I want to buy Chaos in the Old World.
Him: Sure, here it is. Do you want the Horn Rat Expansion?
Me: No.
Him: No? More dice?
Me: I have enough.
Him: Ok, how about more Magic cards for your collections?
Me: Ok I got to go.
Him: Bye, remember there is still alot of other Good Board Games to get from here.
*leaves the store with Board Game*

I loved Tin Solider, I am upset it's closed. I would love some FLGS but no-one is willing to set them up or they are closing down. I am indifferent to GW. The Embargo and Finecast increase stoped me from liking GW so much. I don't want to go to Cmpbeltown or anywhere out Wollongong to do my Hobby and I don't want to go to Good Games either. For me it's a loose-loose situation if GW closes.

-Loki- wrote:

Krellnus wrote:

Asuron wrote:

-Loki- wrote:

AvatarForm wrote:

Bullockist wrote:That's what i am saying! it seems to be just Good Games vs GW atm, anyone else have good hobby stores in sydney, specially with gaming tables!

Hall of Heroes in Campbelltown mate!

Best store going.

Even the OzPainters hold monthly meets there where you can see some of AUS best painters and modellers and get hands on advice and assistance.

.. what the feth. Small world. That's my FLGS tool. Awesome store.

Holy crap, you two go there as well?
Thats my hometown
I don't go much, but the range and tables there are awesome

Wow super small world, I have a couple of friends that keep bugging me to go in there sometime, might have to look it up soon after all!

Make sure you have money. The range in there is awesome. I went in the first time after some 40k stuff and spent most of my time checking out Warmahordes, Malifaux and all of the resin stuff they stock. There's even an Ultraforge Pleasuredaemon I really want to grab. Er, buy.

Didn't realise so many from Dakka went there.
Though I only go there occasionally, one of the best FLGS I've been to.

n0t_u wrote:

-Loki- wrote:

Krellnus wrote:

Asuron wrote:

-Loki- wrote:

AvatarForm wrote:

Bullockist wrote:That's what i am saying! it seems to be just Good Games vs GW atm, anyone else have good hobby stores in sydney, specially with gaming tables!

Hall of Heroes in Campbelltown mate!

Best store going.

Even the OzPainters hold monthly meets there where you can see some of AUS best painters and modellers and get hands on advice and assistance.

.. what the feth. Small world. That's my FLGS tool. Awesome store.

Holy crap, you two go there as well?
Thats my hometown
I don't go much, but the range and tables there are awesome

Wow super small world, I have a couple of friends that keep bugging me to go in there sometime, might have to look it up soon after all!

Make sure you have money. The range in there is awesome. I went in the first time after some 40k stuff and spent most of my time checking out Warmahordes, Malifaux and all of the resin stuff they stock. There's even an Ultraforge Pleasuredaemon I really want to grab. Er, buy.

Didn't realise so many from Dakka went there.
Though I only go there occasionally, one of the best FLGS I've been to.

I keep putting off going there. Maybe I shouldn't

Drk_Oblitr8r wrote:

n0t_u wrote:

-Loki- wrote:

Krellnus wrote:

Asuron wrote:

-Loki- wrote:

AvatarForm wrote:

Bullockist wrote:That's what i am saying! it seems to be just Good Games vs GW atm, anyone else have good hobby stores in sydney, specially with gaming tables!

Hall of Heroes in Campbelltown mate!

Best store going.

Even the OzPainters hold monthly meets there where you can see some of AUS best painters and modellers and get hands on advice and assistance.

.. what the feth. Small world. That's my FLGS tool. Awesome store.

Holy crap, you two go there as well?
Thats my hometown
I don't go much, but the range and tables there are awesome

Wow super small world, I have a couple of friends that keep bugging me to go in there sometime, might have to look it up soon after all!

Make sure you have money. The range in there is awesome. I went in the first time after some 40k stuff and spent most of my time checking out Warmahordes, Malifaux and all of the resin stuff they stock. There's even an Ultraforge Pleasuredaemon I really want to grab. Er, buy.

Didn't realise so many from Dakka went there.
Though I only go there occasionally, one of the best FLGS I've been to.

I keep putting off going there. Maybe I shouldn't

In the name of what is all Hobby, where is that store?

I have found it hard to get warmachine stuff here (in a LGS). I think alot of GW refugees have gone that way.

Multiquotes. Why?
for the addition of a line or two of off topic chat.

please don't make fellow members have to constantly scroll past acres of repeated blue wall for chit chat.

Hi Hexra and welcome
From what has been said PP are not able to get products out anywhere fast enough.

Well mine had a few posts before it so needed for relevance.

As for the store it's on Queen Street, which is basically the main street of Campbelltown. From the railway station you follow the path to the left up to the traffic lights, cross the intersection there and go left. Then just keep walking until you see the yellow building with the banners. Seeing that a few go there it should probably be in the store finder section. I don't know the address, just how to get there.

Campbelltown's too far away.

Translation: I'm too lazy to drive there from Hornsby.

Kouzuki wrote:

Kirbinator wrote:

notprop wrote:If no Austrailians worth their salt are buying GW products at GWOZ prices how is it that GW stores are closing FLGS?

Same way any other <insert small, privately owned business here> closes. Just because people aren't buying from the LGS doesn't mean they're buying from GW either. GW just has the funds and stubbornness to keep doors open.

which means that the LGS were bound to close down anyway regardless of GW stores in the area.

Bingo!

n0t_u wrote:Well mine had a few posts before it so needed for relevance.

As for the store it's on Queen Street, which is basically the main street of Campbelltown. From the railway station you follow the path to the left up to the traffic lights, cross the intersection there and go left. Then just keep walking until you see the yellow building with the banners. Seeing that a few go there it should probably be in the store finder section. I don't know the address, just how to get there.

Campbelltown... I don't have a nice opinion about that place.

rockerbikie wrote:

n0t_u wrote:Well mine had a few posts before it so needed for relevance.

As for the store it's on Queen Street, which is basically the main street of Campbelltown. From the railway station you follow the path to the left up to the traffic lights, cross the intersection there and go left. Then just keep walking until you see the yellow building with the banners. Seeing that a few go there it should probably be in the store finder section. I don't know the address, just how to get there.

Campbelltown... I don't have a nice opinino about that place.

Ehhh its not so bad, the only areas you should definitely not go to are Claymore and generally the Leumeah area. Many friends have been attacked in those areas. Not an issue though since Hall of Heroes isn't really near them at all and definitely not within walking distance
I'm suprised so many people go there.
I'd be glad to game against anyone thats up for it, that is if your comfortable playing against a mainly unpainted army, since I am hell of a slow painter and getting it done is taking me a while.

Asuron wrote:

rockerbikie wrote:

n0t_u wrote:Well mine had a few posts before it so needed for relevance.

As for the store it's on Queen Street, which is basically the main street of Campbelltown. From the railway station you follow the path to the left up to the traffic lights, cross the intersection there and go left. Then just keep walking until you see the yellow building with the banners. Seeing that a few go there it should probably be in the store finder section. I don't know the address, just how to get there.

Campbelltown... I don't have a nice opinino about that place.

Ehhh its not so bad, the only areas you should definitely not go to are Claymore and generally the Leumeah area. Many friends have been attacked in those areas. Not an issue though since Hall of Heroes isn't really near them at all and definitely not within walking distance
I'm suprised so many people go there.
I'd be glad to game against anyone thats up for it, that is if your comfortable playing against a mainly unpainted army, since I am hell of a slow painter and getting it done is taking me a while.

Eh, I've been attacked on Blaxland Road. Granted, it was 3am, and it was a big fight night. Can't remember who was fighting though. Mundine and someone.

Honestly though, I feel worse in Wollongong or the city at night. Campbelltown is fine.

I'd be up for some games with some dakkaites. Granted, I only have 1000pts of Tyranids right now.

I'm wondering if our American and English friends on Dakka are quietly horrified by all this casual talk of violence in the streets, like it's a normal thing here.

Daily attacks, paying double for GW products, in a land full of venomous snakes and no rain.

You forgot spiders in the dunny and Aussie rules football

bolo wrote:I'm wondering if our American and English friends on Dakka are quietly horrified by all this casual talk of violence in the streets, like it's a normal thing here.

Daily attacks, paying double for GW products, in a land full of venomous snakes and no rain.

I suppose that's what happens when your country is essentially the result of a penal colony.

Also, I'd heard tell that your spiders are so dangerous, they happen to have health bars. Is this true?

infinite_array wrote:

bolo wrote:I'm wondering if our American and English friends on Dakka are quietly horrified by all this casual talk of violence in the streets, like it's a normal thing here.

Daily attacks, paying double for GW products, in a land full of venomous snakes and no rain.

I suppose that's what happens when your country is essentially the result of a penal colony.

Also, I'd heard tell that your spiders are so dangerous, they happen to have health bars. Is this true?

Asuron wrote:

rockerbikie wrote:

n0t_u wrote:Well mine had a few posts before it so needed for relevance.

As for the store it's on Queen Street, which is basically the main street of Campbelltown. From the railway station you follow the path to the left up to the traffic lights, cross the intersection there and go left. Then just keep walking until you see the yellow building with the banners. Seeing that a few go there it should probably be in the store finder section. I don't know the address, just how to get there.

Campbelltown... I don't have a nice opinino about that place.

Ehhh its not so bad, the only areas you should definitely not go to are Claymore and generally the Leumeah area. Many friends have been attacked in those areas. Not an issue though since Hall of Heroes isn't really near them at all and definitely not within walking distance
I'm suprised so many people go there.
I'd be glad to game against anyone thats up for it, that is if your comfortable playing against a mainly unpainted army, since I am hell of a slow painter and getting it done is taking me a while.

Getting there will be the main problem, not so much playing a painted game. It would take 3 hours to get there. I am a bored painter I must talk to someone while painting or I'll get bored.

The spiders are okay, however in recent years they have become organized and now hunt in gangs.

If they corner you alone on the dark Australian streets, then your in trouble.

However the real danger comes from Land Sharks and Drop Bears

Dont know about any other GGs but Good Games Canberra is awesome.

infinite_array wrote:Also, I'd heard tell that your spiders are so dangerous, they happen to have health bars. Is this true?

Bro, I told you this on Skype... lol

and yes, we have spiders so large they can kill a dog


Automatically Appended Next Post:

H.B.M.C. wrote:Campbelltown's too far away.

Translation: I'm too lazy to drive there from Hornsby.

What are your other options, mate?

GW Chatswood?

Yeh, the drive out to Campbelltown is so much more appealing now isn't it?

Wow, I wish I knew how many of you guys are 'close'. I head up to North Ryde for many of my games anyways, but Campbelltown is a bit of a trek for me. If anyone's interested in a game PM me, I'm in marrickville, but can travel
Semi-on topic though, while I like Good Games, I can never find either a) a table, or b) someone playing 40k.
and as for the basing comment (can't remember who said it) about basing your models, it's easy, I know it's easy. I don't like the look. I can ignore black bases. I'm playing in a forest environment, or a desert or ect so basic black can be ignored. When I base them I find it harder to ignore. I'm playing on a desert... and my guys apparently brought snow with them? It's not a lazyness issue, it's a personal taste issue.

rockerbikie wrote:

Asuron wrote:

rockerbikie wrote:

n0t_u wrote:Well mine had a few posts before it so needed for relevance.

As for the store it's on Queen Street, which is basically the main street of Campbelltown. From the railway station you follow the path to the left up to the traffic lights, cross the intersection there and go left. Then just keep walking until you see the yellow building with the banners. Seeing that a few go there it should probably be in the store finder section. I don't know the address, just how to get there.

Campbelltown... I don't have a nice opinino about that place.

Ehhh its not so bad, the only areas you should definitely not go to are Claymore and generally the Leumeah area. Many friends have been attacked in those areas. Not an issue though since Hall of Heroes isn't really near them at all and definitely not within walking distance
I'm suprised so many people go there.
I'd be glad to game against anyone thats up for it, that is if your comfortable playing against a mainly unpainted army, since I am hell of a slow painter and getting it done is taking me a while.

Getting there will be the main problem, not so much playing a painted game. It would take 3 hours to get there. I am a bored painter I must talk to someone while painting or I'll get bored.

Man, where in Wollongong are you? From anywhere near Wollongong city, you can get to Campbelltown in under 45 minutes.

AvatarForm wrote:

H.B.M.C. wrote:Campbelltown's too far away.

Translation: I'm too lazy to drive there from Hornsby.

What are your other options, mate?

GW Chatswood?

Yeh, the drive out to Campbelltown is so much more appealing now isn't it?

If you're in Hornsby, you could do worse than drop into The Northern Knights club who meet in Thornleigh fortnightly.
I've been there and they seemed friendly enough.

Pretty much all of my gaming is done in clubs, and has been for the majority of my 25 years of playing. Gaming in stores is an aberration.

Then again, the clubs I have been a member of generally had bar facilities nearby (if not IN the venue).

I'm looking at moving to Sydney from Perth in December. I'll be moving into Kiribilli - are there any good stores or clubs near there? I play BFG and 40k, though looking at Dystopian Wars and Dust Tactics/Warfare.

Trasvi wrote:I'm looking at moving to Sydney from Perth in December. I'll be moving into Kiribilli - are there any good stores or clubs near there? I play BFG and 40k, though looking at Dystopian Wars and Dust Tactics/Warfare.

GW North Sydney is the closest. Though it never existed when I lived in Sydney full time.

I also lived over in Milsons Point, so the train is convenient, unless you wanna hoof it

Far be it from me to ever compliment GWOZ, but the NorSyd store isn’t actually that bad.

I was there around the end of June-ish to get a haircut at a place across the road, and they were having a mini-tournament going on. There were only 6-8 tables or so, all arrayed outside the store in the little courtyard they have outside, but it was quiet and removed from the street (which is a terrible place for a store, but a decent place for a miniature tournament). I was impressed.

I’ve not been to GW Chatswood’s new location, on the other side of ‘Little Korea’, next to the Video Ezy no one cares about. Talk about terrible locations... yeesh...

Trasvi wrote:I'm looking at moving to Sydney from Perth in December. I'll be moving into Kiribilli - are there any good stores or clubs near there? I play BFG and 40k, though looking at Dystopian Wars and Dust Tactics/Warfare.

GW North Sydney + anywhere in the city is easy to get to from Kiribili. Also you'll be about 2 minutes from my house.

H.B.M.C. wrote:
I’ve not been to GW Chatswood’s new location, on the other side of ‘Little Korea’, next to the Video Ezy no one cares about. Talk about terrible locations... yeesh...

Funnily enough, I know exactly where you refer to...

-Loki- wrote:

rockerbikie wrote:

Asuron wrote:

rockerbikie wrote:

n0t_u wrote:Well mine had a few posts before it so needed for relevance.

As for the store it's on Queen Street, which is basically the main street of Campbelltown. From the railway station you follow the path to the left up to the traffic lights, cross the intersection there and go left. Then just keep walking until you see the yellow building with the banners. Seeing that a few go there it should probably be in the store finder section. I don't know the address, just how to get there.

Campbelltown... I don't have a nice opinino about that place.

Ehhh its not so bad, the only areas you should definitely not go to are Claymore and generally the Leumeah area. Many friends have been attacked in those areas. Not an issue though since Hall of Heroes isn't really near them at all and definitely not within walking distance
I'm suprised so many people go there.
I'd be glad to game against anyone thats up for it, that is if your comfortable playing against a mainly unpainted army, since I am hell of a slow painter and getting it done is taking me a while.

Getting there will be the main problem, not so much playing a painted game. It would take 3 hours to get there. I am a bored painter I must talk to someone while painting or I'll get bored.

Man, where in Wollongong are you? From anywhere near Wollongong city, you can get to Campbelltown in under 45 minutes.

I can? I can't drive. Is there a way via public transport.

rockerbikie wrote:

-Loki- wrote:

rockerbikie wrote:

Asuron wrote:

rockerbikie wrote:

n0t_u wrote:Well mine had a few posts before it so needed for relevance.

As for the store it's on Queen Street, which is basically the main street of Campbelltown. From the railway station you follow the path to the left up to the traffic lights, cross the intersection there and go left. Then just keep walking until you see the yellow building with the banners. Seeing that a few go there it should probably be in the store finder section. I don't know the address, just how to get there.

Campbelltown... I don't have a nice opinino about that place.

Ehhh its not so bad, the only areas you should definitely not go to are Claymore and generally the Leumeah area. Many friends have been attacked in those areas. Not an issue though since Hall of Heroes isn't really near them at all and definitely not within walking distance
I'm suprised so many people go there.
I'd be glad to game against anyone thats up for it, that is if your comfortable playing against a mainly unpainted army, since I am hell of a slow painter and getting it done is taking me a while.

Getting there will be the main problem, not so much playing a painted game. It would take 3 hours to get there. I am a bored painter I must talk to someone while painting or I'll get bored.

Man, where in Wollongong are you? From anywhere near Wollongong city, you can get to Campbelltown in under 45 minutes.

I can? I can't drive. Is there a way via public transport.

Heh, that's an obvious problem.

Battle of the multi-quotes!

I'm wondering if our American and English friends on Dakka are quietly horrified by all this casual talk of violence in the streets, like it's a normal thing here.

Daily attacks, paying double for GW products, in a land full of venomous snakes and no rain.

Lol americans not used to daily violence in the street? Come on now.. Our cities are just as awful. The MAIN difference is we cut the bus routes (Among other various tricks) from the cities to the more affluent areas thus limiting where the "undesirables" are allowed to go! The UK has same problem with roving bands of young drunk kids beating people up (And apparently having more rights than their victims)

Btw if you cover your eyes the problem goes away I hear

There's a reason the Kaiser Chiefs did well with "I Predict A Riot".

"Watching the people get lairy
It's not very pretty I tell thee
Walking through town is quite scary
It's not very sensible either"

"And if there's anybody left in here
Who that doesn't want to be out there"

We try to avoid town after hours.

I beleive they have shuttle buses that take about an hour to get to Campbelltown. Have a friend who goes to Wollongong Uni, they take it normally.

I dunno if they have a normal run though. But yeah if you ever are interested in going its about a 45 min drive to Campbelltown. Dont know if thats worth it to just game though lol

If it means not going to the Wollongong GW, then it's absolutely worth the 45 minute drive.

I personally haven't stepped foot in a GW in Australia for about a decade (although I have been to a few overseas). I have walked past the apparently much-disliked GW Wollongong a few times, and passed GW Woden every lunch time for a year or so a few years back.
To me the GW store is just not an attractive place to be. All the services they offer are available at other hobby stores or were available online; without the requirement of talking to one of those horrible GW employees, or being force-fed a space marine battleforce whilst being covered in paint by hypo 10-year olds.
Going by the discussion thus far, it is obvious not everyone has a FLGS let alone a LGS nearby. So I am lucky in this sense, but I can't see anything short of a miraculous turn around in merchandising that will get my custom back at a GW.



In an attempt to send this topic back in the direction of the OP:

-What do GW Australia need to do now to reverse the sales situation? Is there anything they can do short of a massive price drop?

mal wrote:-What do GW Australia need to do now to reverse the sales situation? Is there anything they can do short of a massive price drop?

Right at this point, we don't know if they need to do anything further. This current discussion is based on the last financial report. It's entirely possible (although I can't help thinking rather unlikely) that the imposed restrictions on international sales will fix the problem. We'll have to wait for the next financials to find out.

insaniak wrote:Right at this point, we don't know if they need to do anything further. This current discussion is based on the last financial report. It's entirely possible (although I can't help thinking rather unlikely) that the imposed restrictions on international sales will fix the problem. We'll have to wait for the next financials to find out.

My experience lies in POS strategy, and so I am not really qualified to comment on this but I can't really see the current measures making any real positive impact (the general feeling I think is that they will only encourage both new and existing clients away from the business).
Insaniak: What is your stance? Is there any relevant point of reference we can consider re. the impact of distribution restrictions?

We really don't have enough information to say. There's no way of knowing whether the restrictions were put in place because there was an actual problem with too many customers ordering from overseas, or if it was simply a perceived problem with no actual basis to it.

If it was only a perceived problem rather than an actual one, than the actual change as a result would be minimal... If only a small percentage of sales were going overseas, then stopping them won't have a huge impact. You just lose that small percentage of sales from the discontented minority, but keep the independant retailers in Oz happy.

If there actually were a large number of sales going overseas, then again stopping them potentially forces some of those customers back to the Oz market... but if there were that many people that unhappy with the Oz prices, I think it's more likely in most cases to just push them to different systems.

So to me, either way it seems like a short-sighted move, because the end result is either a small loss in sales... or a large loss in sales. And the added bad press resulting from making such a hard-headed move in the first place in the face of the stark disparity in pricing.

When I first got introduced to GW in Australia during the mid-1980s, there were over 200 locals listed in UKWD (for Australia) as selling the product, numerous wargaming clubs, and thousands of veteran wargamers (having grown up with Airfix et al, Micro Armour et al, Battle Tech et al, and others through D&D et al).

With not one GW staff member, let alone a shop, in sight.

We, the veterans introduced our friends, our family, our children, and a few strangers to the GW world.

We, the veterans, created and built the GW following in Australia.

We, the veterans, created the thriving market in Australia.

GW saw the money, and moved in with their shops… now numbering 34, while the original 200+ were reduced to 42, because, while GW were building their retail empire, around 160 shops closed down… their reward from GW “helping and investing” in the local GW gaming world.

Although there are now around 140 locals listed in WD… that’s only 100 new shops, because they cannot compete with GW retail strategy (selling at GWUK factory cost not GWAU wholesale cost).

Why didn't GW sell world wide like Forge World... it's in GB pounds no matter where you live.

Oh, wait... theres no money to be made ripping off the LGS, hang on a minute... didn't Mr Wells say "we are a producer of miniatures, not a retailer... our shops are hobby centres to rip off children instead"... or words to that effect

Mik