So me and a couple friends have been playing AOE2 lately and have finally agreed with me that we need to upgrade to a RTS game from the 21st century. I love coh, but my one friend isn't a huge fan of it...anybody got any good suggestions for good modern RTS games? I have DOW2, SoaSE, and WiC...dow2 seems too simple and arcade-like, SoaSE takes a bit too long for multiplayer games, and WiC requires more people than we usually have playing. As for SC2, quite honestly, I don't like the asthetics of it, and prefer something a bit farther away from the standard traditional RTS game. And it just looks so cheesy and cartoony to me, like everything from Blizzard. Any suggestions?
I do have that, but I can't seem to find it around the house. Is that still a fun game? My friend is going gaga over SC2 so I don't know if I'll be able to get him into AOE3...
AoE 3 is not just AoE 2 with better graphics. Understand that going in and you will be less disappointed. It also helps to have all the expansions as well.
I have played AoE3 a lot, it was just a while back, and after playing coh, i dont know how much id like it. And as for AOE2 and the conquerors, ive played it extensively, thats what were currently playing.
Dawn of War games are good in my opinion, especially if you're into WH40k. But I honestly liked Supreme Commander better than the sequel, even if it was a bit buggy.
Spartan 117 wrote:Go old schhol and get C&C and Generals : Zero Hour expansion. You guys will be playing that all night.....
Go old school and get Command and Conquer: The First Decade, ever so much fun. You'll have to do LAN games for anything pre Red Alert 2 though because Westwood doesn't exist and you can't make accounts through them for online play anymore. I think it comes with generals as well.
Spartan 117 wrote:Go old schhol and get C&C and Generals : Zero Hour expansion. You guys will be playing that all night.....
Go old school and get Command and Conquer: The First Decade, ever so much fun. You'll have to do LAN games for anything pre Red Alert 2 though because Westwood doesn't exist and you can't make accounts through them for online play anymore. I think it comes with generals as well.
Oh ya first decade was so frosh. So many more oppurtunities open up when you go for the old school RTS games....
DOW2 is fun. I like it. Aoe3 was ok in my opinion, but i just wanted to spam inf and it got dull, because they all died to easyly, you can muck around so much with it as you could with aoe2
If you want an RTS that will last forever, Sins of a Solar Empire is pretty fun. I had a match with computers that was set on a huge map, it lasted 9 hours altogether.
firstly NOOOOO!!! Age of Empire 2 was SOO MUCH BETTER!!
any case have you tried out Supreme Commander Forged Alliance or Supreme Commander 2? Its a great game takes a while to finish but its worth it when you launch a nuke and then all players here over there headsets "strategic launch Detected" and then all your friends get into a blind panic cause they are either building something somewhere in secret or do not have any anti nuke silos.
Try out Sins of a Solar Empire that takes FOREVER to finish but luckily you can save your game in the multiplayer.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Oh I read how some of you don't like SupCom 2 over the original, I don't really see it has a SupCom game but I play it more cause my PC's 9400GT card runs number two some much better than the original, i mean like 6 Frames a Second on low graphics is not very nice compared to 25 Frames a second I get on SupCom 2 on high graphics.
Bromsy wrote:Rise of Legends is pretty good. Steampunk robots vs arabian nights vs alien aztec gods is a matchup I thoroughly enjoyed.
The original Rise of Nations is also very good. A bit old but what kind of an RTS game can you have Bantu vs Incas?
I will also vouch for many of the C&C series, the base gameplay is usually passable and they tend to have a great load of mods which vastly improves them
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halonachos wrote:
It has a preorder bonus on Steam I think. Not sure, but steam was saying something about a shaman mask.
Ah yes there was a TF2 promotional. I heard the game was very good so that little bonus sweetened the deal for me
firstly NOOOOO!!! Age of Empire 2 was SOO MUCH BETTER!!
any case have you tried out Supreme Commander Forged Alliance or Supreme Commander 2? Its a great game takes a while to finish but its worth it when you launch a nuke and then all players here over there headsets "strategic launch Detected" and then all your friends get into a blind panic cause they are either building something somewhere in secret or do not have any anti nuke silos.
Try out Sins of a Solar Empire that takes FOREVER to finish but luckily you can save your game in the multiplayer.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Oh I read how some of you don't like SupCom 2 over the original, I don't really see it has a SupCom game but I play it more cause my PC's 9400GT card runs number two some much better than the original, i mean like 6 Frames a Second on low graphics is not very nice compared to 25 Frames a second I get on SupCom 2 on high graphics.
A lot of that could actually be due to your processor, rather than your graphics card. SupCom and SupCom:FA are notoriously harsh on processors.
Ledabot wrote:DOW2 is fun. I like it. Aoe3 was ok in my opinion, but i just wanted to spam inf and it got dull, because they all died to easyly, you can muck around so much with it as you could with aoe2
Ledabot wrote:DOW2 is fun. I like it. Aoe3 was ok in my opinion, but i just wanted to spam inf and it got dull, because they all died to easyly, you can muck around so much with it as you could with aoe2
Ledabot wrote:DOW2 is fun. I like it. Aoe3 was ok in my opinion, but i just wanted to spam inf and it got dull, because they all died to easyly, you can muck around so much with it as you could with aoe2
I'm sorry but DoW2 is not an RTS.
Is there strategy involved?
Yes.
Is it in real-time or turn-based?
Real-time.
Lo and behold, it's a RTS!
It's time to get over RTS applying only to C&C base building clones.
corpsesarefun wrote:By that logic most games are RTS's.
WoW involves strategy and is real time, so that an RTS?
Oh look. A ridiculous leap of logic! How silly and fun!
Either way, this ridiculous idea that Dawn of War 2 is somehow anything but a RTS is obnoxious. We get it. People like building bases and micromanaging. However, what is incorporated within the auspices of a genre can widen.
Remember when it just used to be "shooters"? Now we have FPS and 3PS, top down shooters, etc.
corpsesarefun wrote:Fine, how about guildwars? at the moment you manage a squad of AI not unlike in DoW2, it is strategic and real time.
In Guild Wars and World of Warcraft you control a single character that represents you in game, this is what makes it a Role-Playing Game. You are playing as a character in the overall story of the game. In Dawn of War 2 there is an overarching storyline with characters that you control, but here's the kicker, they're still units. That's right, these heros are just pawns under your omnipotent control. You tell them where to go and you don't actually go there 'yourself' and the fact that they have to be told to do actions instead of you doing things yourself separates RPGs from RTSs.
corpsesarefun wrote:Fine, how about guildwars? at the moment you manage a squad of AI not unlike in DoW2, it is strategic and real time.
In Guild Wars and World of Warcraft you control a single character that represents you in game, this is what makes it a Role-Playing Game. You are playing as a character in the overall story of the game. In Dawn of War 2 there is an overarching storyline with characters that you control, but here's the kicker, they're still units. That's right, these heros are just pawns under your omnipotent control. You tell them where to go and you don't actually go there 'yourself' and the fact that they have to be told to do actions instead of you doing things yourself separates RPGs from RTSs.
Incorrect, due to a lowering playbase the folks at guildwars have expanded the AI companion system so for the most part of PvE you control a squad of AI much like in DoW2. However IMO this does not make it at all an RTS, at best DoW2 is a RTT but I would catagorise it as something else entirely.
I cant see how a game with a 4 player party system (or was it 8?) can compare at all to DoW2
Look you have a base, a bird's eye view, you can build units, go up tier levels, and require building up resources to spend. To me thats an RTS (although there are exceptions like turn based RTS where you build before battles)
Real-time tactics or RTT[1] is a subgenre of tactical wargames played in real-time simulating the considerations and circumstances of operational warfare and military tactics. It is differentiated from real-time strategy gameplay by the lack of resource micromanagement and base or unit building, as well as the greater importance of individual units[1][2] and a focus on complex battlefield tactics.
So, unless you disregard RTT as a viable genre, DOW2 fits the criteria pretty much perfectly.
Would Star Fleet Battles (1, 2 or Orion Pirates) be a RTT? Generally, you only controlled one ship, but had a lot of resources to manage: energy, weapons, away teams, ect.
Uhhh, I'm not really sure. I hadn't heard of them before, and from looking it up all I am getting is a board game, and an online version of said board game.
I rather like playing Sins of a Solar Empire but the game can take up to 6 hours to finnish so perhaps if you and your buddies don't want to play for that long I recommend something else but they are great fun especially with the expansions.
Supreme Commander was a great game but the the sequel wasn't very good so buy the fisrt one and/or the expansion they are great!
I rather like the totalwar seris but they can be hard for some people. If of your mates find it too hard perhaps try something else. But all in all they are great games especially 1v1 multiplayer Campaingn in Napoleon when it doesn't crash
Its ashame your mate doesn't like COH its a great game one of my favourites especially with the blitzkreig mod.
but hopefully these games are something you and your friends may like
It's too bad your friend isn't into CoH. I think it's the best RTS ever- great graphics, awesome sound (sometimes hilarious voices), most deep, most interesting, most 'realistic' (for a video game). I just can't touch any other RTS since I started on that (almost 6 years ago already !!??). I agree with your take on StarCraft - cheezy, cartoony, and ... not CoH. Sorry I didn't help much. Did I mention how highly I think of CoH?
What does your friend have against it? There is a punishing learning curve, many can't get past it and hate being crushed over and over till they learn the units, companies, maps, when to use/not use buildings, etc., not to mention just the basic RTS micro (hotkeys, waypoints, etc.).
The Total War series is my second favorite, nothing like 10000 men on the field at once! The new Shogun: TW is beautiful, with really fun ship battles.
Homeworld is considered an RTS but has no base building whatsoever. Even Homeworld 2 doesn't really have any appropriate base building-- sure there's turrets and space stations for building capital ships, but that's about it. You have one shipyard usually, no more than that, and turrets usually only protect the shipyard or the asteroid belt you're currently harvesting.... all the research and most of the shipbuilding is done by the flagship.
DoW2 is roughly equivalent to Homeworld 2 on the base building front. You have one base, and it builds and researches everything. And then you have turrets and garrisons and similar structures.
Now, DoW2's campaign is probably RTT. But its skirmish is definitely RTS.
corpsesarefun wrote:
Neither does DoW2 so by that logic it is not an RTS.
"Leading armies...." I think DoW II is an RTS according to this rule.
"In an RTS, as in other wargames, the participants position and maneuver units and structures under their control to secure areas of the map and/or destroy their opponents' assets. In a typical RTS, it is possible to create additional units and structures during the course of a game. This is generally limited by a requirement to expend accumulated resources. These resources are in turn garnered by controlling special points on the map and/or possessing certain types of units and structures devoted to this purpose. More specifically, the typical game of the RTS genre features resource gathering, base building, in-game technological development and indirect control of units."
Hmm base gameplay I say not too much compared to Men of War. That game is crazy where you can even loot bodies for ammo, helmets, and healing kits. Heck its really hard to use vehicles since if you dont pay attention they can get one shotted very easily, but of course your crew can jump out, and maybe find another vehicle to repair and commandeer!
My only complaint is that you can only give actions to one group at a time instead of your whole army
imark789 wrote:As for SC2, quite honestly, I don't like the asthetics of it, and prefer something a bit farther away from the standard traditional RTS game. And it just looks so cheesy and cartoony to me, like everything from Blizzard. Any suggestions?
Personally as a Command and Conquer and AOE2 fan; I'd revisit SC2. You'll get the most bang from your buck and their community is basically unrivaled in the RTS market. Users have also created several kinds of maps that diversified its gameplay which gives you other options than the traditional RTS game under its 'use map settings' tab. The competitive scene is also basically unrivaled in RTS e-sports as people make livings not only playing the game but broadcasting them as well. Also its single player and story is fun and entertaining. SC2 also has an expansion due this year so the core game will likely be cheaper.
Not really, you get a rehashed version of an old game (which itself has been rehashed a thousand times over, in ways which are better and more interesting than SC2 to boot, such as DoW1) without even really much of a grahical improvement and very little of gameplay change or enhancements.
Melissia wrote:Not really, you get a rehashed version of an old game (which itself has been rehashed a thousand times over, in ways which are better and more interesting than SC2 to boot, such as DoW1) without even really much of a grahical improvement and very little of gameplay change or enhancements.
Thats one way to put it but compared to all the titles mentioned in this thread I'd go for SC2 especially since none of the other titles really offer the multiplayer or even single player experience its got. DOW, despite being a 3d Warhammer 40k, didn't do much for me and got stale and boring too quick for a RTS
imark789 wrote:I do have that, but I can't seem to find it around the house. Is that still a fun game? My friend is going gaga over SC2 so I don't know if I'll be able to get him into AOE3...
Good luck. Older RTS titles are going to be a serious downgrade after "going gaga" over SC2
Cane wrote: Thats one way to put it but compared to all the titles mentioned in this thread I'd go for SC2 especially since none of the other titles really offer the multiplayer or even single player experience its got. DOW, despite being a 3d Warhammer 40k, didn't do much for me and got stale and boring too quick for a RTS
So basically like starcrap?
Because that got boring the moment I finished the campaign. Unlike Total Annihilation or other good games
Cane wrote: Thats one way to put it but compared to all the titles mentioned in this thread I'd go for SC2 especially since none of the other titles really offer the multiplayer or even single player experience its got. DOW, despite being a 3d Warhammer 40k, didn't do much for me and got stale and boring too quick for a RTS
So basically like starcrap?
Hell no! SC was a much more entertaining experience at least for me anyway. Give me SC, AOE, and CnC over DOW's gameplay any day. I wanted to like DOW since it was a game that finally made 40k into 3D and it got my local buddies excited too but the gameplay and replay factor just fell too short. Especially when DOW turned out to be more of a capture and control type of RTS/RPG than base building.
Cane wrote: Thats one way to put it but compared to all the titles mentioned in this thread I'd go for SC2 especially since none of the other titles really offer the multiplayer or even single player experience its got. DOW, despite being a 3d Warhammer 40k, didn't do much for me and got stale and boring too quick for a RTS
So basically like starcrap?
Hell no! SC was a much more entertaining experience at least for me anyway. Give me SC, AOE, and CnC over DOW's gameplay any day. I wanted to like DOW since it was a game that finally made 40k into 3D and it got my local buddies excited too but the gameplay and replay factor just fell too short. Especially when DOW turned out to be more of a capture and control type of RTS/RPG than base building.
If you want base building, starcrap is incredibly mediocre. Go try Supreme Commander (and Forged Alliance). Or the Stronghold series.
I loved Empire Earth's base building. Nothing made me shake my head like a footman going up to a building, beating it with a sword until it burst into flames and disappeared. Empire Earth basically needed siege weapons to kill walls/fortifications, you had 'siege' as a special type of damage, with multipliers against walls and stuff, everything else just did base damage; and walls had like 40000 hitpoints per section.
I loved Warcraft 3 back in the day, too bad it is just used to play DoTA anymore. I am looking at getting into an empire building game so would supreme commander be good, or is empire earth better?
So Empire Earth is good for empire building type gameing, which one is the "better" one then since there are 3 of them. I have heard number 3 is pretty bad.
Soladrin wrote:Seven Kingdoms is the best RTS on earth anyway.
Seven Kingdoms: Conquest was the worst "professionally" made RTS game ever made. Bar none.
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Soladrin wrote:Supreme Commander is pretty much just a standard RTS (think C&C) But a lot bigger maps and larger armies.
And a different economy style. And a different AI set. And aircraft that actually move like aircraft. And real-time tracking of projectiles. And truly 3D in every way.
Well lets see if you want a Single player experience (with multiplayer online, no campaign online)i would recomend the following,
Universe at war
Supreme commander 2
World In conflict (amazing)
Tropico 3/4 (no multiplayer)
Stronghold 3 (next month)
For a better coop (coop campaigns) experience
DOW 2 (especially retribution if you like large armies, the first two only have small squads)
Empire/Napolean/Shogun Total war
Civilization IV/V
Company of Heroes
Red faction 3
Command and Conquer 4
The awesome thing about Starcraft 2 is the extensive map editor, which is even more fully-featured than the first game. It allows you to create pretty much anything you can think of within the game's engine (from RPGs to Third-Person Shooters). This gives SC2 waaaay more replay value than any other RTS on the market, and it makes the community of the game an awesome sight to behold. This is probably the most amazing feature of any RTS I've ever seen.
Yes, it is a fairly generic APM RTS (Though it's really well-balanced and polished), but it doesn't have to be at all.
Melissia wrote:Because that got boring the moment I finished the campaign. Unlike Total Annihilation or other good games
It's obvious that you never really got into the multiplayer modding scene. Have you even played Starcraft 2? If not, you probably shouldn't be campaigning against it so vehemently.
Unlike every other RTS on the market, where you're limited to the game that the developers built for you (and there's only so much entertainment to be found), the possiblities in Starcraft 2 are pretty much endless.
Chrysaor686 wrote:It's obvious that you never really got into the multiplayer modding scene.
It's hard to get into something that bores you to sleep.
And you know what? Total Annihilation's modding scene was FAR superior. Creating entirely new units, new games, hell, even new genres was quite well done.
something that is new and brilliant while still following what people want.... no gimmicks, an involved community, and a learning curve that is infinite
Generalian wrote:something that is new and brilliant while still following what people want.... no gimmicks, an involved community, and a learning curve that is infinite
Melissia wrote:It's hard to get into something that bores you to sleep.
And you know what? Total Annihilation's modding scene was FAR superior. Creating entirely new units, new games, hell, even new genres was quite well done.
The original Starcraft's map editor was way ahead of it's time. Though you were (mostly) limited to the resources that the game itself provided (at least, if you wanted to host your game on Battle.net), the scripting was really robust, and the community was able to crank out some incredibly fun material that broke new ground all the time.
Starcraft 2's editing software is even more robust, and it's even more accessible. Your options are a lot broader than anything I've ever seen before in an RTS (if you think Total Annihilation is better in this respect, you've obviously never seen the gigantic selection of sanctioned mods on offer in SC2), and the scripting is a little easier to wrap your head around. Best of all, SC2's editor now allows for resources outside the game to be used, which pretty much means that you can use it to do whatever you want. It's a really awe-inspiring piece of software, and it's more than worth the price of admission. You just happen to get the 'boring, generic' campaign and vanilla game along with it.
Stronghold! Homeworld! Empire earth! I have them all, and ive never been great at playing them.
I really dident want to start a RTS vs RTT debate for DOW2, far out guys. this is not the right thread for that. We dont need every detail to be spot on ok.
Melissia wrote:It's hard to get into something that bores you to sleep.
And you know what? Total Annihilation's modding scene was FAR superior. Creating entirely new units, new games, hell, even new genres was quite well done.
The original Starcraft's map editor was way ahead of it's time. Though you were (mostly) limited to the resources that the game itself provided (at least, if you wanted to host your game on Battle.net), the scripting was really robust, and the community was able to crank out some incredibly fun material that broke new ground all the time.
Starcraft 2's editing software is even more robust, and it's even more accessible. Your options are a lot broader than anything I've ever seen before in an RTS (if you think Total Annihilation is better in this respect, you've obviously never seen the gigantic selection of sanctioned mods on offer in SC2), and the scripting is a little easier to wrap your head around. Best of all, SC2's editor now allows for resources outside the game to be used, which pretty much means that you can use it to do whatever you want. It's a really awe-inspiring piece of software, and it's more than worth the price of admission. You just happen to get the 'boring, generic' campaign and vanilla game along with it.
Yea the map editor and user created maps add a ton to Starcraft's replay factor and the features in this one is unmatched in the history of RTS. Hell one of the older user maps, DOTA, is being turned into its own game IIRC. The SC2 map editor has a ton of potential and nowadays I play more use map setting games than ranked games, ranging from minigames like starships battling it out to hopefully one day playing this crazy map:
imark789 wrote:So me and a couple friends have been playing AOE2 lately and have finally agreed with me that we need to upgrade to a RTS game from the 21st century. I love coh, but my one friend isn't a huge fan of it...anybody got any good suggestions for good modern RTS games? I have DOW2, SoaSE, and WiC...dow2 seems too simple and arcade-like, SoaSE takes a bit too long for multiplayer games, and WiC requires more people than we usually have playing. As for SC2, quite honestly, I don't like the asthetics of it, and prefer something a bit farther away from the standard traditional RTS game. And it just looks so cheesy and cartoony to me, like everything from Blizzard. Any suggestions?
Sorry guys I've been gone for almost two weeks. DoW2 is fun, but idk, compared to CoH, it seems simple and bland. The tactics seem shallow. SoaSE is a really cool game, but honestly, playing against computers didn't do a whole lot for me, is the gameplay fun with other human players? And as for the AOE debate, I like 3 more than 2. I like how your limited to your fortifications-if theres a population cap, you should not be able to build 14124124123 castles and 123123125325336475 towers.
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murdog wrote:It's too bad your friend isn't into CoH. I think it's the best RTS ever- great graphics, awesome sound (sometimes hilarious voices), most deep, most interesting, most 'realistic' (for a video game). I just can't touch any other RTS since I started on that (almost 6 years ago already !!??). I agree with your take on StarCraft - cheezy, cartoony, and ... not CoH. Sorry I didn't help much. Did I mention how highly I think of CoH?
What does your friend have against it? There is a punishing learning curve, many can't get past it and hate being crushed over and over till they learn the units, companies, maps, when to use/not use buildings, etc., not to mention just the basic RTS micro (hotkeys, waypoints, etc.).
The Total War series is my second favorite, nothing like 10000 men on the field at once! The new Shogun: TW is beautiful, with really fun ship battles.
Completely agree with you. I LOVE CoH. He does not like the micro, he likes games with a more leisurely pace, and quite honestly, fails to realize that to be competitive in any RTS, you need micro ("i dont like how much micro there is to coh"). He also thinks the tactics are bit too in depth.
And seriously guys? Who gives a rats A$$ if DoW2 is a RTT or RTS? I was gonna read through the whole thread so I wouldn't be repeating what's already been said, but come on, that filled up a whole page.
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SickSix wrote:
imark789 wrote:So me and a couple friends have been playing AOE2 lately and have finally agreed with me that we need to upgrade to a RTS game from the 21st century. I love coh, but my one friend isn't a huge fan of it...anybody got any good suggestions for good modern RTS games? I have DOW2, SoaSE, and WiC...dow2 seems too simple and arcade-like, SoaSE takes a bit too long for multiplayer games, and WiC requires more people than we usually have playing. As for SC2, quite honestly, I don't like the asthetics of it, and prefer something a bit farther away from the standard traditional RTS game. And it just looks so cheesy and cartoony to me, like everything from Blizzard. Any suggestions?
Screw the 21st century! Play C&C Red Alert!
Meh. I played it back in the day and tried playing it again, wasn't a fan of it. Wait, RA2, that is...as the one guy said, going old school after games like CoH is really hard...
