in your opinion, which space marine chapter do you consider the worst? not because of in game stats or anything, but because they, say, don't praise the emperor enough, or just aren't manly enough or something along those lines. In my opinion, it would be these fellas http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Rainbow_Warriors
but who do you like the least?(inb4 "matt ward wrote this codex so theyre the worst")
Well the Astral Claws aren't doing a very good job...
If that doesn't count then neither the Marines Malevolent or the Star Phantoms are doing a good job with the whole 'protect the citizens of the Imperium' thing... mainly 'cos they keep blowing them up.
If we include Chaos, the World Eaters they're the angry marines attempting to be serious. The only redeeming factor is Blood For The Blood God is an awesome warcry, second only to Waaaaaaghh.
purplefood wrote:Well the Astral Claws aren't doing a very good job...
If that doesn't count then neither the Marines Malevolent or the Star Phantoms are doing a good job with the whole 'protect the citizens of the Imperium' thing... mainly 'cos they keep blowing them up.
well the lamenters arent doing too swell of a job either
purplefood wrote:Well the Astral Claws aren't doing a very good job...
If that doesn't count then neither the Marines Malevolent or the Star Phantoms are doing a good job with the whole 'protect the citizens of the Imperium' thing... mainly 'cos they keep blowing them up.
well the lamenters arent doing too swell of a job either
Well they're just getting themselves killed... the others are killing other people... that's just rude.
As far as chaos marines are concerned I'm not too fond of the Word Bearers. After all according to the horus heresy novels they are the main ones responsible for screwing everything up for everyone in the crusade. With the loyalist chapters I don't like the Doom Eagles as they are just too depressing with their "we are already dead so nothing matters" attitude. Who wants a bunch of whiny emo marines defending them.
Primarch Bloodcup chuckles as the other so-called Space Marine "Chapters" prattle about their prowess under combat.
Few have seen the majesty of a Legion Ponie descending from Flowerpots as they rain from the sky, or the beauty of a Lashoof equipped Legionnaire severing the head from an unsuspecting enemy.
Truly, all other factions of marines pale to my warriors.
WarOne wrote:Primarch Bloodcup chuckles as the other so-called Space Marine "Chapters" prattle about their prowess under combat.
Few have seen the majesty of a Legion Ponie descending from Flowerpots as they rain from the sky, or the beauty of a Lashoof equipped Legionnaire severing the head from an unsuspecting enemy.
Truly, all other factions of marines pale to my warriors.
At first, I thought you were saying they was a primarch named Bloodcup Chuckles, then I thought that's an odd name for Sanguinius. Guess I should read more thoroughly.
WarOne wrote:Primarch Bloodcup chuckles as the other so-called Space Marine "Chapters" prattle about their prowess under combat.
Few have seen the majesty of a Legion Ponie descending from Flowerpots as they rain from the sky, or the beauty of a Lashoof equipped Legionnaire severing the head from an unsuspecting enemy.
Truly, all other factions of marines pale to my warriors.
At first, I thought you were saying they was a primarch named Bloodcup Chuckles, then I thought that's an odd name for Sanguinius. Guess I should read more thoroughly.
The ponies threw me... er, no pun intended.
OOC:I'll throw in a special explanation of what I am doing here.
I'm pretending to be the Primarch of an elite Space Marine legion of My Little Ponies. Other DCMs are pretending to be the MOD Alpharius, adopting his avatar and custom tag.
UltraMarines are the most over-rated Chapter in 40k Inquisition need to take them out. If you have notice that most on the recent fallen marine came from ultramarines guilliman's geneseed... hmmmm I see a pattern
Eternalhero1983 wrote:UltraMarines are the most over-rated Chapter in 40k Inquisition need to take them out. If you have notice that most on the recent fallen marine came from ultramarines guilliman's geneseed... hmmmm I see a pattern
Maybe that has something to do with the fact that the majority of Space Marine chapters come from Ultramarine Geneseed?
coolyo294 wrote:Maybe that has something to do with the fact that the majority of Space Marine chapters come from Ultramarine Geneseed?
You can thank that fact to the "Plan:Make All Space Marine Chapters Lame By Having the Pony Legions Replace Awesome Gene-Seeds with Vanilla Gene-Seeds that are Well Rounded But Don't Do Anything Really Special" plan.
Whaaaaaat? Really? LOL. I didn't know you didn't liked them.
I was gonna say GK but Blood Angels take the cake for me. I hate their rules. I feel no pain and furious charge you muahahahahaha. And my baal predators make a mockery of your guys as they outflank and flame storm them. Muahahahahahah
Ironsight wrote:Space Sharks is Low Gothic for Carcharodons. Or something like that.
Of course, given that it is essentially the English translation. Though were we being strict in Linnean terms about the Latin (I mean High Gothic), they'd be the Lamnidae. Carcharadons are specifically the genus within that family of sharks which includes the very largest of them, the great white. As I recall the classical Latin for a shark is 'volpes marina' - literally sea fox.
Whaaaaaat? Really? LOL. I didn't know you didn't liked them.
I was gonna say GK but Blood Angels take the cake for me. I hate their rules. I feel no pain and furious charge you muahahahahaha. And my baal predators make a mockery of your guys as they outflank and flame storm them. Muahahahahahah
They can kiss my ass...
Too bad this is about their fluff not TT.
Edit: realized I was being hypocritical in derailing thread. LOL
Whaaaaaat? Really? LOL. I didn't know you didn't liked them.
I was gonna say GK but Blood Angels take the cake for me. I hate their rules. I feel no pain and furious charge you muahahahahaha. And my baal predators make a mockery of your guys as they outflank and flame storm them. Muahahahahahah
They can kiss my ass...
Too bad this is about their fluff not TT.
Edit: realized I was being hypocritical in derailing thread. LOL
LOL It happens! I had to vent cause I had lost to them earlier today. But fluff wise I would stick with GKs. I suppose they are a chapter.
Worst at serving the Imperium? Astral Claws seem likely candidates.
Worst Fluff? I'd say Blood Angels and Space Wolves compete for this, these days.
Worst rules? I think Space Wolves have this one.
Worst servant of the Emperor? Black Templars have betrayed what the Emperor originally stood for to a level only the Word Bearers have managed.
I like Prospero Burns, but Space Wolves are a little tiresome.
I love Wolves, I like Space Marines but I absolutely HATE HATE HATE Space Wolves. Not because of their rules but because of how they are portrayed - tailored for the lowest common denominator. "KOOL SPEEHS WUHLFS WO R TOTALLY THE BESTEST CUZ THEY CAN KILL ALL CHEPTRS AND THEIR REALLY KOOL CUZ THEY DRINKZ LULZ".
WarOne wrote:Primarch Bloodcup chuckles as the other so-called Space Marine "Chapters" prattle about their prowess under combat.
Few have seen the majesty of a Legion Ponie descending from Flowerpots as they rain from the sky, or the beauty of a Lashoof equipped Legionnaire severing the head from an unsuspecting enemy.
Truly, all other factions of marines pale to my warriors.
At first, I thought you were saying they was a primarch named Bloodcup Chuckles, then I thought that's an odd name for Sanguinius. Guess I should read more thoroughly.
The ponies threw me... er, no pun intended.
OOC:I'll throw in a special explanation of what I am doing here.
I'm pretending to be the Primarch of an elite Space Marine legion of My Little Ponies. Other DCMs are pretending to be the MOD Alpharius, adopting his avatar and custom tag.
I'm being a bit more insane than them.
I still think 'Bloodcup Chuckles' is a great nickname for Sanguinius.
I go with the Lametors the most unlucky space marine bastards ever. But if you're going for cheesy rules hell you got GK, BA, and SW all trying to out cheese each other, meanwhile chaos is still facepalming for its new codex.
Wait how come no one remembers this chapter?
Marines Malevolent
The bastards shot mortars into a civilian refugee camp because there were orks in the area. Then they killed Imperial Guardsmen for no reason. They killed a few salamanders and they hate other astrates.
Their colors suck. And their fluff makes them out to be a bunch of donkey caves.
Melissia wrote:Angry Marines. Instead of being an intelligently put together chapter taht TRIES to be interesting, it's just one stupid meme after another.
Nope, definitely the blood angels for me..Used to have a SM army many years ago, got back into the hobby this year...and i cant stand any of the minis!
OMG is that Mephiston head librarian bloke mini the worst mini ever?? the pose is about as dynamic as two bricks stacked on top of each other..and whats with the "lets even paint our toilet seats red" colour scheme??
Mantis Warriors/Lamenters/Executioners for fighting with Huron in the Badab War then basically saying "WESA A-SORRY" when they lost. Still amazing they were allowed to live after that.
For me? Dark Angels. "Oh no, our brothers on Caliban were tricked by ONE GUY THAT WAS CORRUPTED and THERE WAS NO WAY WE COULD HAVE KNOWN so now we are cursed. Boo hoo hoo. No one must know. Even though we have always been loyal. To the Emperor." Emo pricks.
Oh so many to choose from. How about the "Sons of Guilliman"? Lame. The Black Consuls or the White Consuls? Why they have to go all racial? Then there are any number of totally phoned in chapters like the Red Templars and Red Wolves. So hard to choose just one.
Melissia wrote:Angry Marines. Instead of being an intelligently put together chapter taht TRIES to be interesting, it's just one stupid meme after another.
Of course, the Angry Marines are a joke Chapter.
My answer? Soul Drinkers.
Hersey. The Soul Drinkers are badasses. The angry marines aren't a real chapter.
The Marines Malevolent are so much worse than the angry marines.
The Soul Drinkers are not bad at all they are intelligent and are not a meme, they have a great series of books.
Melissia wrote:Angry Marines. Instead of being an intelligently put together chapter taht TRIES to be interesting, it's just one stupid meme after another.
Of course, the Angry Marines are a joke Chapter.
My answer? Soul Drinkers.
Hersey. The Soul Drinkers are badasses. The angry marines aren't a real chapter.
The Marines Malevolent are so much worse than the angry marines.
The Soul Drinkers are not bad at all they are intelligent and are not a meme, they have a great series of books.
Marines Malevolent are a really interesting chapter IMO they have a character flaw few chapters have... two actually.
Melissia wrote:Angry Marines. Instead of being an intelligently put together chapter taht TRIES to be interesting, it's just one stupid meme after another.
Of course, the Angry Marines are a joke Chapter.
My answer? Soul Drinkers.
Hersey. The Soul Drinkers are badasses. The angry marines aren't a real chapter.
The Marines Malevolent are so much worse than the angry marines.
The Soul Drinkers are not bad at all they are intelligent and are not a meme, they have a great series of books.
Marines Malevolent are a really interesting chapter IMO they have a character flaw few chapters have... two actually.
what bombing civilians and beating up salamanders just because the orks are getting near by?
AT least they aren't as bad as the emo marines.
Melissia wrote:Angry Marines. Instead of being an intelligently put together chapter taht TRIES to be interesting, it's just one stupid meme after another.
Of course, the Angry Marines are a joke Chapter.
My answer? Soul Drinkers.
Hersey. The Soul Drinkers are badasses. The angry marines aren't a real chapter.
The Marines Malevolent are so much worse than the angry marines.
The Soul Drinkers are not bad at all they are intelligent and are not a meme, they have a great series of books.
Marines Malevolent are a really interesting chapter IMO they have a character flaw few chapters have... two actually.
what bombing civilians and beating up salamanders just because the orks are getting near by?
AT least they aren't as bad as the emo marines.
They don't mind killing civilians and they are under-equipped and under supplied.
purplefood wrote:
They don't mind killing civilians and they are under-equipped and under supplied.
STill why waste the ammo on civilians?
For all we know those could be the man at arms later on.
The Marines Malovent have the interesting characteristics of being douches.
purplefood wrote:
They don't mind killing civilians and they are under-equipped and under supplied.
STill why waste the ammo on civilians?
For all we know those could be the man at arms later on.
The Marines Malovent have the interesting characteristics of being douches.
Yeah they are a chapter of arseholes. They don't try to actively kill civilians but they don't particularly care if they get hit, that makes them stick out a fair amount.
Tagboard Wizard wrote:Gonna level with you all, I think the Lunar wolves caused the most trouble for them empire as a whole.
Horus wasn't very nice after he had his 'Anakin Skywalker' moment...
Word Bearers are worse. Luna wolves were caught in the cross fire not their fault its their primarchs for being a weakling.
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purplefood wrote:
Asherian Command wrote:
purplefood wrote: They don't mind killing civilians and they are under-equipped and under supplied.
STill why waste the ammo on civilians? For all we know those could be the man at arms later on. The Marines Malovent have the interesting characteristics of being douches.
Yeah they are a chapter of arseholes. They don't try to actively kill civilians but they don't particularly care if they get hit, that makes them stick out a fair amount.
thats true. Better than the mary sues of the other chapters.
by proof being douches.
They have an arrogance about them which has brought many requests for Inquisitorial investigation. An example of this is during an Ork attack on a refugee camp near Hades Hive. In excess of five thousand Orks penetrated the defences of the camp and took the entire population, over 12000 refugees and nearly 1000 member of the Adeptus Ministorum as hostages. The Marines Malevolent proceeded to use their Whirlwind anti-personal artillery pieces to bombard the Orks while they were still in the camp. On the proceeding attack to retake the camp, a huge amount of collateral damage had been done to the camp's population. Nearly four thousand refugees had been killed, but the Marines Malevolent seemed to believe them to be acceptable casualties.
purplefood wrote:
They don't mind killing civilians and they are under-equipped and under supplied.
STill why waste the ammo on civilians?
For all we know those could be the man at arms later on.
The Marines Malovent have the interesting characteristics of being douches.
Yeah they are a chapter of arseholes. They don't try to actively kill civilians but they don't particularly care if they get hit, that makes them stick out a fair amount.
Is this really different from anyone but Salamanders/Space Wolves? Even the noble Grey Knights oversaw the purge of Armageddons population after the 1st war. Astartes have an ambivalent attitude to Imperial citizens at best and view them as an annoyance at worst. And in the Flesh Tearers case they view them as a tasty snack.
purplefood wrote:
They don't mind killing civilians and they are under-equipped and under supplied.
STill why waste the ammo on civilians?
For all we know those could be the man at arms later on.
The Marines Malovent have the interesting characteristics of being douches.
Yeah they are a chapter of arseholes. They don't try to actively kill civilians but they don't particularly care if they get hit, that makes them stick out a fair amount.
Is this really different from anyone but Salamanders/Space Wolves? Even the noble Grey Knights oversaw the purge of Armageddons population after the 1st war. Astartes have an ambivalent attitude to Imperial citizens at best and view them as an annoyance at worst.
Most Astartes have either a superior attitude or no attitude towards mortals.
SW are friends with anyone who fights for the Emperor.
Salamanders are really defensive towards civilians.
Few chapters don't care about civilian casualties... they will accept a few but they won't not care about how many they kill.
Blackskullandy wrote:I'm not a fan of the Ultrasmurfs, theyre a bit too clean cut and (i believe the term is) mary-sue.
I can't think of any Mainstream legion I dislike, I play Ultra and I kind of feel the same way you do. I like it and I don't like it. Loyalist legion that I am not that fond of at the top of my list is probably the Space Wolves. For the aesthetic reason only. I said it! Don't rip my head off.
As for chaos. I really didn't find the word bearers interesting at all. After reading the First Heretic I thought the overall book was good but found the legion kind of boring. They just cannot compete with the world eaters and the Night Lords. They are so unique and stand out way more in my opinion. Plus, how can you go wrong with BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD.
They're the only chapter that mind wipes it's members when they're being too smart or worse "disapears" them. Say what you want about all the others but they are all brotherhoods. The DA are the only chapter that just a bunch of secret clubs.
The Dark Angels are the only chapter to dishonourably withdraw from a battlefield and abandon Imperial allies at the critical moment in a war to "defend their honour" and then not see the irony in that. So what you want about all the others but they wouldn't do that.
The Dark Angels don't even fight for the Imperium, they just go around pursuing some issue that every other chapter would have put behind them ages ago.
Soul Drinkers.. Chapter Master is well, a MUTANT with SPIDER LEGS... and other mutations in the ranks... but that's ok.. we still serve the Emperor.. WE know his will, and won't bow to the corrupt Imperium that has broken faith with the Emperor..
I gotta go with Rainbow Warriors, simply because of the name. It doesn't matter how they act or what bad-ass things they do, I will never take 'em seriously! If these guys destroyed everything I've ever known, slaughtered my family and beat me to within an inch of my life, before a battle-brother pinned me to the ground under his ceramite-encased foot, bolter firmly between my eyes...
"Your end has come. The sight of us will be your last. We are Wrath. We are Vengeance. We are the Rainbow Warrioirs."
TheFatElf wrote:I gotta go with Rainbow Warriors, simply because of the name. It doesn't matter how they act or what bad-ass things they do, I will never take 'em seriously! If these guys destroyed everything I've ever known, slaughtered my family and beat me to within an inch of my life, before a battle-brother pinned me to the ground under his ceramite-encased foot, bolter firmly between my eyes...
"Your end has come. The sight of us will be your last. We are Wrath. We are Vengeance. We are the Rainbow Warrioirs."
Harriticus wrote:Mantis Warriors/Lamenters/Executioners for fighting with Huron in the Badab War then basically saying "WESA A-SORRY" when they lost. Still amazing they were allowed to live after that.
They were all punished for it, actually. The Lamenters, for example, were forced to go on a crusade before they could begin recruiting again.
Worst at serving the Imperium? Astral Claws seem likely candidates.
Worst Fluff? I'd say Blood Angels and Space Wolves compete for this, these days.
Worst rules? I think Space Wolves have this one.
Worst servant of the Emperor? Black Templars have betrayed what the Emperor originally stood for to a level only the Word Bearers have managed.
I like Prospero Burns, but Space Wolves are a little tiresome.
I can't stand the SW. Hate their fluff, their minis, and their rules.
But please explain the Black Templar thing? They are my favorite chapter!
Harriticus wrote:Mantis Warriors/Lamenters/Executioners for fighting with Huron in the Badab War then basically saying "WESA A-SORRY" when they lost. Still amazing they were allowed to live after that.
They were all punished for it, actually. The Lamenters, for example, were forced to go on a crusade before they could begin recruiting again.
And they weren't fighting for Chaos. They thought the were fighting for Chapter sovereignty as a principle. The Inquisition understood this.
Marshall Ragnar wrote:But please explain the Black Templar thing? They are my favorite chapter!
The Emperor never wanted to be worshipped. He thought religion would lead to worship of the Chaos Gods. The Word Bearers worshiped the Emperor pre-Heresy, and the Black Templars (to my knowledge) worship him now.
Da Boss was just saying they were the worst chapter at following what the Emperor wanted, not that they're a bad army from a real life sense.
rockerbikie wrote:I have to say the Crimson fists after they lost so many Marines.
Don't think so; it was due to their fortitude and competence that they survived. And it wasn't due to any degree of incompetence or weakness that they suffered so much on Rynn's World, but because of a rogue missile very conveniently striking an 'unknown weak point' in their fortress monestary... Methinks something more than meets the eye with that.
It's probably been said, but Space Wolves. I just find them very goofy looking with all the wolf armor, riding wolves, wolf names etc. Space Kitties would be much cooler. Imagine Space Marines riding giant house cats....
Marshall Ragnar wrote:But please explain the Black Templar thing? They are my favorite chapter!
The Emperor never wanted to be worshipped. He thought religion would lead to worship of the Chaos Gods. The Word Bearers worshiped the Emperor pre-Heresy, and the Black Templars (to my knowledge) worship him now.
Da Boss was just saying they were the worst chapter at following what the Emperor wanted, not that they're a bad army from a real life sense.
Odd thing to hate about a Chapter, considering pretty much every imperial citizen worships the Emperor as a god... including all the other Loyalist Marines (and the Soul Drinkers)
Souldrinkers.
"Brother chaptermaster, brother chaptermaster, what is that odd thing on your leg?"
"Oh brother Librarian Sarpeidon, it's just an idiot ball. It becomes standard issue equipment for the entire chapter. Here is yours."
Souldrinkers are bomb... or were bomb considering it's looks like they're all good as dead with the end of Hell Forged.
Anyway, Space Wolves... I mean are space vikings really necessary? I would Dark Eldar would be enough in the raiding pillaging and raping aspect anyhow.
Viersche wrote:Marines Malevolent. The whole chapter is basically full of sociopathic arseholes
Just like geneticaly altered, superhuman childsoldiers with an unusualy high agression, bound by 10000 years of xeno/genocidial dogma ( which only confirms their perceived superiority over normal humans ) and a lifetime of unimaginable horrors and bloodshed might act.
Viersche wrote:Marines Malevolent. The whole chapter is basically full of sociopathic arseholes
Just like geneticaly altered, superhuman childsoldiers with an unusualy high agression, bound by 10000 years of xeno/genocidial dogma ( which only confirms their perceived superiority over normal humans ) and a lifetime of unimaginable horrors and bloodshed might act.
And originally it was what Space Marine Chapters were all about before beginning their transformation to warrior monks in 2nd Ed. for them to be more akin to younger customers...
nectarprime wrote:It's probably been said, but Space Wolves. I just find them very goofy looking with all the wolf armor, riding wolves, wolf names etc. Space Kitties would be much cooler. Imagine Space Marines riding giant house cats....
I was planning on doing just that as a small joke army, but after this thread I think I may be making a Space Sharks counts-as SW army with weresharks riding sharks. It shall be the worst army of all time.
I don't understand why people hate Space Wolves so much. So what if they seem to be Drunken Vikings on the outside. If fact, they are brilliant strategists and are actually very intelligent capable marines that makie the Ultra-marines jealous.
In the end they are based off Valhalla and the Norse Gods. In Valhalla, it is mythed that people drink all day, fighting and partying, having a blast and enjoying themselves. Yet, people who are into Mythology don't consider Odin to be an idiot.
Why do people hate the Chapter?
They have their own codex and that pisses everyone of because it's not their chapter. They seems to be hated more than the Ultra-marines. The only non-hated Marine Chapter with their own Codex is the Black Templar because they have not recieved an update.
At the end of the day, Space Wolves is a misunderstood chapter.
Ultramarines, never fought in a real war and only once being in a huge battle (for Macragge). Also Vanilla marine codex is full of ultrasmurf pictures so it can be called Codex: UltraSmurfs. Also Matthew Ward's favourite chapter which makes me hate them even more.
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Soladrin wrote:They are mostly hated because of the badly written fluff, and codex creep.
IMHOGK has the worst fluff...ever. And the codex is much better than wolf or any other codex.
Asherian Command wrote:Wait how come no one remembers this chapter?
Marines Malevolent
The bastards shot mortars into a civilian refugee camp because there were orks in the area. Then they killed Imperial Guardsmen for no reason. They killed a few salamanders and they hate other astrates.
Their colors suck. And their fluff makes them out to be a bunch of donkey caves.
Wait, the Marines Malevolent killed Marines from the Salamanders Chapter?
rockerbikie wrote:I don't understand why people hate Space Wolves so much. So what if they seem to be Drunken Vikings on the outside. If fact, they are brilliant strategists and are actually very intelligent capable marines that makie the Ultra-marines jealous.
They are superstitious, ignorant savages that are the second biggest Mary Sues in the 40K universe after Draigo.
Go read Draigo's bit again, he's not a Mary Sue, all his actions have no concequence and he's stuck in the warp, only appearing in the real world when "summoned" For all intents and purposes he's an Imperial daemon.
@Omegus: but that's only since this edition. In this edition, they became so werewolfy, it isn't even funny anymore. When they were introduced in 2nd edition, they were just Space Vikings with a few wolf skulls here and there, and they grew canines over the years. Now they are Space Werewolves with a bit of Norse mythology thrown in, but only a sprinkling. Which I find really, really, sad.
Just like BA have been transformed from Renaissance angelic knightly guys with a hint, really only a single hint in the Codex Imperials, of being vampires, into Space Vampires with serious daddy issues.
Omegus wrote:So this edition of 40K fluff could alternatively be called Twilight. Got it.
Come to think of it... yes. Now we need a Sororitas codex where they all become black-haired, plain emo chicks. That'd round that new 40K theme out nicely.
Coolyo294 wrote:Da SPESS WHULVES for being special snowflake super marines.
Very rich coming from someone with their dakka advancement quote being the ULTRAmahrines!!!!
Thank god that's a joke. Ultramarines are dogmatic paragons of virtue. Space Wolves are a band of stupidly hypocritical drunken special snowflake Space Vikings with a wolf fetish.
Asherian Command wrote:Wait how come no one remembers this chapter?
Marines Malevolent
The bastards shot mortars into a civilian refugee camp because there were orks in the area. Then they killed Imperial Guardsmen for no reason. They killed a few salamanders and they hate other astrates.
Their colors suck. And their fluff makes them out to be a bunch of donkey caves.
Wait, the Marines Malevolent killed Marines from the Salamanders Chapter?
Anoi wrote:in your opinion, which space marine chapter do you consider the worst? not because of in game stats or anything, but because they, say, don't praise the emperor enough, or just aren't manly enough or something along those lines. In my opinion, it would be these fellas http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Rainbow_Warriors
but who do you like the least?(inb4 "matt ward wrote this codex so theyre the worst")
Soladrin wrote:They are mostly hated because of the badly written fluff, and codex creep.
Bad Fluff? Have you read any Black Library books with them in it?
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Omegus wrote:
rockerbikie wrote:I don't understand why people hate Space Wolves so much. So what if they seem to be Drunken Vikings on the outside. If fact, they are brilliant strategists and are actually very intelligent capable marines that makie the Ultra-marines jealous.
They are superstitious, ignorant savages that are the second biggest Mary Sues in the 40K universe after Draigo.
They are Norseman not Politically correct Friendly Space Politicans. They are far from Mary Sues. They swear, drink, smoke and do other violent things. I would be ok if you said they are the Manowar of Warhammer 40k but they are no Mary Sue.
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iproxtaco wrote:
Wulfen Andy wrote:
Coolyo294 wrote:Da SPESS WHULVES for being special snowflake super marines.
Very rich coming from someone with their dakka advancement quote being the ULTRAmahrines!!!!
Thank god that's a joke. Ultramarines are dogmatic paragons of virtue. Space Wolves are a band of stupidly hypocritical drunken special snowflake Space Vikings with a wolf fetish.
I thought people could read posts online but I guess my post was ignored.
I ignored you because I disagreed, to be honest. Space Wolves are not misunderstood. They are stupid, they are savage, they drink and do non-Space Marine stuff, are huge hypocrites, and are generally better at everything than regular marines, whilst getting away with stuff Chapters have been declared excommunicate for.
Soladrin wrote:They are mostly hated because of the badly written fluff, and codex creep.
Bad Fluff? Have you read any Black Library books with them in it?
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Omegus wrote:
rockerbikie wrote:I don't understand why people hate Space Wolves so much. So what if they seem to be Drunken Vikings on the outside. If fact, they are brilliant strategists and are actually very intelligent capable marines that makie the Ultra-marines jealous.
They are superstitious, ignorant savages that are the second biggest Mary Sues in the 40K universe after Draigo.
They are Norseman not Politically correct Friendly Space Politicans. They are far from Mary Sues. They swear, drink, smoke and do other violent things. I would be ok if you said they are the Manowar of Warhammer 40k but they are no Mary Sue.
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iproxtaco wrote:
Wulfen Andy wrote:
Coolyo294 wrote:Da SPESS WHULVES for being special snowflake super marines.
Very rich coming from someone with their dakka advancement quote being the ULTRAmahrines!!!!
Thank god that's a joke. Ultramarines are dogmatic paragons of virtue. Space Wolves are a band of stupidly hypocritical drunken special snowflake Space Vikings with a wolf fetish.
I thought people could read posts online but I guess my post was ignored.
Yes, multiple times, it's a fun read, I'll give you that, it's also written like crap, and murders any existing fluff. Hi mister navigator with your third eye unblinkered.
They're a joke chapter made by taking the worst combination of traits possible from the Rites of Battle book. For instance, they have a faulty Lyman's Ear, but their combat doctrine makes heavy use of drop pods, so they all emerge from their drop pods vomiting and nauseated from motion sickness, if they're not passed out due to their malfunctioning Catalepsian Node. . .
Soladrin wrote:They are mostly hated because of the badly written fluff, and codex creep.
Bad Fluff? Have you read any Black Library books with them in it?
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Omegus wrote:
rockerbikie wrote:I don't understand why people hate Space Wolves so much. So what if they seem to be Drunken Vikings on the outside. If fact, they are brilliant strategists and are actually very intelligent capable marines that makie the Ultra-marines jealous.
They are superstitious, ignorant savages that are the second biggest Mary Sues in the 40K universe after Draigo.
They are Norseman not Politically correct Friendly Space Politicans. They are far from Mary Sues. They swear, drink, smoke and do other violent things. I would be ok if you said they are the Manowar of Warhammer 40k but they are no Mary Sue.
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iproxtaco wrote:
Wulfen Andy wrote:
Coolyo294 wrote:Da SPESS WHULVES for being special snowflake super marines.
Very rich coming from someone with their dakka advancement quote being the ULTRAmahrines!!!!
Thank god that's a joke. Ultramarines are dogmatic paragons of virtue. Space Wolves are a band of stupidly hypocritical drunken special snowflake Space Vikings with a wolf fetish.
I thought people could read posts online but I guess my post was ignored.
Yes, multiple times and it's a fun read. I'll give you that, it's also written like crap, and murders any existing fluff. Hi mister navigator with your third eye unblinkered.
Intersting use of a Simile. It is not murdering any of the fluff. You have just misinterpreted every edition of Space Wolf fluff. Congratulations! I also fixed your post. Thank me later.
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Soladrin wrote:I was referring to the BL stuff on SW actually.
As for GK, read the codex properly, the fluff isn't that bad. Draigo isn't awesome, he's really really sad.
rockerbikie wrote:
Why do people hate the Chapter?
They have their own codex and that pisses everyone of because it's not their chapter. They seems to be hated more than the Ultra-marines. The only non-hated Marine Chapter with their own Codex is the Black Templar because they have not recieved an update.
Alas, Black Templar are hated because we have a Codex of our own despite being a "mere" second founding chapter, while the Salamanders, White Scars, Iron Hands etc. don't.
rockerbikie wrote:
Intersting use of a Simile. It is not murdering any of the fluff. You have just misinterpreted every edition of Space Wolf fluff. Congratulations! I also fixed your post. Thank me later.
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Soladrin wrote:I was referring to the BL stuff on SW actually.
As for GK, read the codex properly, the fluff isn't that bad. Draigo isn't awesome, he's really really sad.
WTF's a simile...
And honestly, if you don't see the fluff mistakes in the two SW omnibusses talking to you has no more use.
Soladrin wrote:They are mostly hated because of the badly written fluff, and codex creep.
Bad Fluff? Have you read any Black Library books with them in it?
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Omegus wrote:
rockerbikie wrote:I don't understand why people hate Space Wolves so much. So what if they seem to be Drunken Vikings on the outside. If fact, they are brilliant strategists and are actually very intelligent capable marines that makie the Ultra-marines jealous.
They are superstitious, ignorant savages that are the second biggest Mary Sues in the 40K universe after Draigo.
They are Norseman not Politically correct Friendly Space Politicans. They are far from Mary Sues. They swear, drink, smoke and do other violent things. I would be ok if you said they are the Manowar of Warhammer 40k but they are no Mary Sue.
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iproxtaco wrote:
Wulfen Andy wrote:
Coolyo294 wrote:Da SPESS WHULVES for being special snowflake super marines.
Very rich coming from someone with their dakka advancement quote being the ULTRAmahrines!!!!
Thank god that's a joke. Ultramarines are dogmatic paragons of virtue. Space Wolves are a band of stupidly hypocritical drunken special snowflake Space Vikings with a wolf fetish.
I thought people could read posts online but I guess my post was ignored.
Yes, multiple times and it's a fun read. I'll give you that, it's also written like crap, and murders any existing fluff. Hi mister navigator with your third eye unblinkered.
Intersting use of a Simile. It is not murdering any of the fluff. You have just misinterpreted every edition of Space Wolf fluff. Congratulations! I also fixed your post. Thank me later.
Pedantic grammar correction aside, ever stopped to consider that you might be wrong on your interpretation? At the very least you could make your point without appearing like an arrogant fool.
Soladrin wrote:I was referring to the BL stuff on SW actually.
As for GK, read the codex properly, the fluff isn't that bad. Draigo isn't awesome, he's really really sad.
(Deleted needless and obviously 'trying to hard to be funny' image.)
Yeah, well you've just misinterpreted Draigo's fluff, like almost everyone else. I'd have thought you could since you so expertly deducted the true nature of the Space Wolves. That's sarcasm by the way, you have no idea what your talking about in either instance.
But yeah, if you misinterpret Draigo's fluff, you're not gonna have much of an arugment left for the whole SW thing..
If you want to argue with me about the fluff please at least use correct grammar. I don't not own "not gonna have much of an argument left for the whole SW thing".
But yeah, if you misinterpret Draigo's fluff, you're not gonna have much of an arugment left for the whole SW thing..
If you want to argue with me about the fluff please at least use correct grammar. I don't not own "not gonna have much of an argument left for the whole SW thing".
You're can also mean "you are" you know. The sentence thus would read:
Soladrin wrote:
But yeah, if you misinterpret Draigo's fluff, you are not gonna have much of an arugment left for the whole SW thing..
But yeah, if you misinterpret Draigo's fluff, you're not gonna have much of an arugment left for the whole SW thing..
If you want to argue with me about the fluff please at least use correct grammar. I don't not own "not gonna have much of an argument left for the whole SW thing".
Brilliant. Continue with this criticism of grammar, it only highlights your inability to respond to the criticism of your original point.
I agree with the poster above me, geeh no wonder there are wars raging around the world.
Anyhow back on topic, I dont find any particular chapter horribel, althou i prefer Ultra marines & Black Templars over Imperial Fists and Blood angels, but that is more to due with moddels and so on
I think calling for clam is a tad premature. When the mods step in, you know when it's time to take a breather, now though, things are calm on the Internet Hate Meter.
iproxtaco wrote:I think calling for clam is a tad premature. When the mods step in, you know when it's time to take a breather, now though, things are calm on the Internet Hate Meter.
Coulda fooled me! It was starting to feel like 4chan.
But yeah, if you misinterpret Draigo's fluff, you're not gonna have much of an arugment left for the whole SW thing..
If you want to argue with me about the fluff please at least use correct grammar. I don't not own "not gonna have much of an argument left for the whole SW thing".
Yeah, you should totaly ask for perfect grammar in a discussion with someone from a non english speaking country. Not to mention that it's my 4th language.
I hate the Ultramarines like everyone else, but legitimately all of the chapters are pretty solid, playwise. Fluff is a different matter, and on that note I have to go with Space Wolves. Anybody read Battle of the Fang? Pretty solid book until the end when a single Wolf Lord fist fights a m'n f'n primarch.
That crap was fan service anyway. Made Magnus look like a woe-is-me crybaby/vindictive five year old.
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Brother Coa wrote:Worst chapter?
Must be Imperial Fist, they get slaughtered all the time in fluff.
It's bound to happen. Bright yellow armor isn't very inconspicuous.
rockerbikie wrote:
Why do people hate the Chapter?
They have their own codex and that pisses everyone of because it's not their chapter. They seems to be hated more than the Ultra-marines. The only non-hated Marine Chapter with their own Codex is the Black Templar because they have not recieved an update.
Alas, Black Templar are hated because we have a Codex of our own despite being a "mere" second founding chapter, while the Salamanders, White Scars, Iron Hands etc. don't.
Well, technically the members of the Black Templar are from the original Imperial Fists, who refused to accept the tenants of the Codex Astartes, instead choosing to go on a permanent crusade of penitence for their non-compliance. The current Imperial Fists were all the younger recruits, so technically they would be the latter founding, they just got to keep the original name.
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iproxtaco wrote:I think calling for clam is a tad premature. When the mods step in, you know when it's time to take a breather, now though, things are calm on the Internet Hate Meter.
I concur. Most of the posters on this forum will never see a clam no matter how much they call for it. If they did, I'm sure "premature" would be a key word in that encounter.
As for Draigo, his tale is a parable on the futility of the fight against Chaos. Chaos is going to win, it's just a matter of how long the Knights can keep that from happening. The only obnoxious part of his tale is the Mortarion bit, because even if Mortarion is a bit of a pansy by Primarch standards, he's still a friggin' Primarch. The Battle of the Fang conflict was just as bad, although at least we can try to rationalize that it was a possessed lieutenant, rather than Magnus himself, and his power waning as time went on, since he went from effortlessly shrugging off "enough firepower to level a full company" to being hurt by a power fist.
But yeah, if you misinterpret Draigo's fluff, you're not gonna have much of an arugment left for the whole SW thing..
If you want to argue with me about the fluff please at least use correct grammar. I don't not own "not gonna have much of an argument left for the whole SW thing".
Yeah, you should totaly ask for perfect grammar in a discussion with someone from a non english speaking country. Not to mention that it's my 4th language.
Ok I'm done now.
I know guys from Switzerland who have better Grammar skills again. That excuse is invalid.
But yeah, if you misinterpret Draigo's fluff, you're not gonna have much of an arugment left for the whole SW thing..
If you want to argue with me about the fluff please at least use correct grammar. I don't not own "not gonna have much of an argument left for the whole SW thing".
Yeah, you should totaly ask for perfect grammar in a discussion with someone from a non english speaking country. Not to mention that it's my 4th language.
Ok I'm done now.
I know guys from Switzerland who have better Grammar skills again. That excuse is invalid.
iproxtaco wrote:I think calling for clam is a tad premature. When the mods step in, you know when it's time to take a breather, now though, things are calm on the Internet Hate Meter.
Coulda fooled me! It was starting to feel like 4chan.
Really? Could you point me to a really calm 4chan page? Just seems like you're posting for the sake of posting.
But yeah, if you misinterpret Draigo's fluff, you're not gonna have much of an arugment left for the whole SW thing..
If you want to argue with me about the fluff please at least use correct grammar. I don't not own "not gonna have much of an argument left for the whole SW thing".
Don't play this game. Your post is missing a comma, AND you use a double negative?
PLEASE.
(I don't even know what you said in that second sentence, but that might just be a context thing.)
I wonder if the chapter GW promotes the most always will be the hated one?
I sort of like to ultras, the gold and blue looks just as naive and proud as the regiments in wars from from the 17-century, and it's nice with a chapter without any big emotional issues...even though they lack a bit of character (It's not easy to build a specific Ultramarine list when they are so generic). And I think some forgets that they are just as xenophobic and superstitious as any other chapter. There is no "good" forces in the imperium. But I have not yet read many Black Library books where they appear so I cannot tell if I might hate them in the future.
And the wolves... They just don't fit in. It's like a some kind of comic-relief-but-still-serious-and-powerful-enough-for-kids-to-like chapter. I'm very surprised to discover that they are as old as the second edition. Seems like they should have been cut when GW took the 40k universe on the grim dark path. But it might be that I as a swede feel that the viking theme is just badly done.
It's only recently that I think they've taken the Space Wolves in the wrong direction. Too childish and special snowflake, where they were kind of cool before the more recent stuff came out.
Iur_tae_mont wrote:I'm not a fan of the iron hands. I dunno why. Just don't like them.
Oh, yes that is agreed. The first chapter to be dropped of, and the Primarch managed to get killed by someone who was trying not to kill him. Fail. Not even Iron Hands can redeem that.
iproxtaco wrote:It's only recently that I think they've taken the Space Wolves in the wrong direction. Too childish and special snowflake, where they were kind of cool before the more recent stuff came out.
They were always unique snowflakes. Even back in 2nd edition they had higher WS/BS and crazy options. Andy Chambers made that one of the beardiest books of all time. I still remember well the 20-man terminator squad with each terminator armed with assault cannons and cyclone missile launchers.
And some over-the-top fluff, too. The infamous "Plague of Unbelief" story bit where the Space Wolves beat up the entire Segmentum Pacifica Navy with their fleets of Battle Barges is from 2E as well.
The basic idea for SW was good, but there have always been times where it was pulled off ... poorly.
black templar wrote:Ultramarines should have been destroyed in the heresy and save us aload of trouble.
Pray tell, what 'bother' has the Ultramarines caused 'us'?
What trouble? Every space marine video game (save dawn of war thank the gods) and other spin off has been about these vanilla unisteresting jerk offs who, despite being the face of the franchise, totally fail to emphasize the awsome baroque/grimdark/faux-medieval gothicness of the 40k setting to people who are new to it.
A person who's never seen anything involving 40k before who see's something involing the ultramarines is just going to think "Oh blue super soldiers, guess this is just some sci-fi thing." and that's a shame, especially if the product had involved any of a number of other chapters (Blood Ravens, Dark Angels, Silver skulls, Imperial Fists, hell thell the list goes on and on) that really bring that touch of the medieval that so defines the setting.
That's why the Ultramarines can suck start their bolters for all I care.
(Also pardon the spelling/gramar as I wrote this at work- work being a patrol car)
To be fair, I always thought the Ultras catch a lot of undeserved flak simply because they were the first and they're perceived as the "standard" ("vanilla") - but someone 's gotta be, right?
It's not that they have no defining features. In fact, the strict, even dogmatic adherence to the Codex is very much an identifying aspect in itself. They would not even have needed this Roman image that GW is trying to pin onto them now after decades of being fine without.
It's just that compared to certain other Chapters they do not appear to be as "SPESHUL". It's all very subjective, obviously. Some may think they not "cool/badass/snowflake enough". I think, for me personally, it is precisely this what makes them look better, as by being more "down to earth" they also seem to fit in better.
That said, there's certainly many Chapters in-between the extremes - it's really not as if the Ultras are the only ones I'd deem fitting. That said, most of the other "non-snowflake" Chapters seem to carve out their existence in the background, only played by few enthusiasts. I daresay the Ultras were only so popular because they were pretty much the poster boys for 40k for so many years, but by now the focus seems to shift.
As for the video games, I kinda agree, but then again we could just as well complain that almost all video games focus on Space Marines regardless of Chapter.
And for what it's worth, DoW by far isn't the only exception. Blood Angels and Dark Angels starred in the Space Hulk games, and the upcoming MMO will feature the Black Templars.
Salamanders-No, they couldn't just have someone with a dark skin color! They had to have their skin LITERALLY BURNT BLACK by the sun! Yeah, that's pretty stupid. However, the rest of their fluff is good and stuff to distinguish them from other Chapters, so they aren't the worst.
Blood Angels-Alright, every Loyalist Primarch has died, yet this is the only Chapter who went emo as a result. The explanation behind it is generally vague and poorly thought out, but to be honest that can be said about a lot of things in 40k. This is their defining trait, so that makes them a candidate for worst Chapter, but it isn't too bad so they're a Dark House.
Ultramarines-These guys were built off of a fine concept; mostly generic Marines with a Roman Theme. But they made them into ultra Mary Sues. I can't think of a single time they suffered a major defeat and didn't still win whatever war/overall battle they were in. Hell, I can only think of a single defeat they had. Due to this, they're a strong candidate for worst Chapter.
Space Sharks and Rainbow Warriors-Alright, these names are terrible. However, they are so over the top and were down that way on purpose so that I don't think the names are actually that bad. As a result they aren't a contender, but they easily could've been.
Space Wolves-I've explained earlier that they're hipsters. I don't feel like explaining it again, but I'm sure I'll do it if someone asks. In addition, they use the word "Wolf" way too much. This puts them as a strong contender alongside the Ultramarines.
Hawk Lords-Even Slaanesh worshippers aren't allowed to have a colorscheme this bad. However, they have no bad fluff, so they're only a moderate contender.
Grey Knights-Similar to the Ultramarines, they were built on a fine concept and were indeed done well for awhile, but with their recent Codex they've strayed into Mary Sue territories. These guys are a strong contender aswell.
Doom Eagles-They're like the Rainbow Warriors, except their name wasn't a satire on terrible names. It actually was a terrible name. But that's their only flaw, making these guys a weak contender.
Mantis Warriors, Lamenters and Executioners-Heretics are never let off. Yeah, I know they were treated badly, but normally the Imperium would've obilterated them and then obilterated the dust. Thus these three Chapters are a moderate contender.
Dark Angels-Used to be good, but their secret is stupid and uncreative at all. Woop de doo, some of your Chapter fell to Chaos, SO DID EVERYONE ELSE ACCEPT THE GREY KNIGHTS. You aren't unique. Having their defining thing be something stupid makes the Dark Angels a strong contender. And the winner is....
Spoiler:
My own fanmade Chapter I made when I first started playing 40k. Mary Sue, Unoriginal and Terrible Color Scheme all in one. It was years ago, so hopefully I'm better now. Hopefully.
LoneLictor wrote:Dark Angels-Used to be good, but their secret is stupid and uncreative at all. Woop de doo, some of your Chapter fell to Chaos, SO DID EVERYONE ELSE ACCEPT THE GREY KNIGHTS. You aren't unique. Having their defining thing be something stupid makes the Dark Angels a strong contender.
Not true. No other loyalist legion has had any documented case of Marines siding with traitors. Traitor legions had marines remain loyalist, but the Dark Angels were the only loyal legion that had marines turn traitor, which could, and would in the current timeline, be seen as a severe geneseed flaw by the High Lords. Hence, they keep it a secret and try to hunt down the remaining traitors.
KamikazeCanuck wrote:Many chapters have fallen to chaos.
You missed the point about them being the only loyal legion to have members turn traitor during the heresy. All of the other loyal legions were loyal to a man, but not the Dark Angels. It's their dirty secret, being the only first founding loyal legion to have harboured traitors during those times.
And with all secrets, it gets worse the longer you keep it. Having known, and not spoken about, having had traitors in their legion at the time of the heresy sounds really bad for a first founding legion.
I'm not a Dark Angels fan by any stretch, but that part of their story is pretty unique among the firsst founding legions.
KamikazeCanuck wrote:Many chapters have fallen to chaos.
You missed the point about them being the only loyal legion to have members turn traitor during the heresy. All of the other loyal legions were loyal to a man, but not the Dark Angels. It's their dirty secret, being the only first founding loyal legion to have harboured traitors during those times.
And with all secrets, it gets worse the longer you keep it. Having known, and not spoken about, having had traitors in their legion at the time of the heresy sounds really bad for a first founding legion.
I'm not a Dark Angels fan by any stretch, but that part of their story is pretty unique among the firsst founding legions.
KamikazeCanuck wrote:Many chapters have fallen to chaos.
You missed the point about them being the only loyal legion to have members turn traitor during the heresy. All of the other loyal legions were loyal to a man, but not the Dark Angels. It's their dirty secret, being the only first founding loyal legion to have harboured traitors during those times.
And with all secrets, it gets worse the longer you keep it. Having known, and not spoken about, having had traitors in their legion at the time of the heresy sounds really bad for a first founding legion.
I'm not a Dark Angels fan by any stretch, but that part of their story is pretty unique among the firsst founding legions.
But eventually every Chapter (which were created from the Legions) has had Traitors. At this point every single loyalist Chapter/former Legion has had Traitors, yet the Dark Angels still cry 'bout it and refuse to admit it. In addition that's their defining character trait; they've had Traitors. They're secret should've been better; maybe something about their Primarch or the C'tan or who knows what, but in anycase it should've been better.
"NO I DONT HAVE TRATORS!"
"It's okay, everyone has had Traitors at one point. Its not your fault."
"NO NONO! I NEVR HAD TRATORS AND NEVR WILL! IM JUST CRYING FOR NO REASON! THATS ALL!"
black templar wrote:Ultramarines should have been destroyed in the heresy and save us aload of trouble.
Pray tell, what 'bother' has the Ultramarines caused 'us'?
What trouble? Every space marine video game (save dawn of war thank the gods) and other spin off has been about these vanilla unisteresting jerk offs who, despite being the face of the franchise, totally fail to emphasize the awsome baroque/grimdark/faux-medieval gothicness of the 40k setting to people who are new to it.
A person who's never seen anything involving 40k before who see's something involing the ultramarines is just going to think "Oh blue super soldiers, guess this is just some sci-fi thing." and that's a shame, especially if the product had involved any of a number of other chapters (Blood Ravens, Dark Angels, Silver skulls, Imperial Fists, hell thell the list goes on and on) that really bring that touch of the medieval that so defines the setting.
That's why the Ultramarines can suck start their bolters for all I care.
(Also pardon the spelling/gramar as I wrote this at work- work being a patrol car)
40k draws upon a ton of different sources. I personally find the baroque/gothic/psuedo-medieval stuff to be the least interesting. The style of rogue trader was much more sci-fi and with a touch of cyber-punk. Personally I find the barbarian, sci-fi and WWII inspired units the most entertaining. Smurfs might be pretty boring but they do serve as being pretty middle of the road for a universe that sways to a lot of extremes.
KamikazeCanuck wrote:Many chapters have fallen to chaos.
You missed the point about them being the only loyal legion to have members turn traitor during the heresy. All of the other loyal legions were loyal to a man, but not the Dark Angels. It's their dirty secret, being the only first founding loyal legion to have harboured traitors during those times.
And with all secrets, it gets worse the longer you keep it. Having known, and not spoken about, having had traitors in their legion at the time of the heresy sounds really bad for a first founding legion.
I'm not a Dark Angels fan by any stretch, but that part of their story is pretty unique among the firsst founding legions.
Yet the Space Wolves harbored traitors far more recently, considering how many of them defected to the Red Corsairs.
The splint among the Dark Angels was all the Lion's fault, anyway. That guy was a dumbass.
LoneLictor wrote:Hrmm, worst Space Marine Chapter. Let's see.
Salamanders-No, they couldn't just have someone with a dark skin color! They had to have their skin LITERALLY BURNT BLACK by the sun! Yeah, that's pretty stupid. However, the rest of their fluff is good and stuff to distinguish them from other Chapters, so they aren't the worst.
Blood Angels-Alright, every Loyalist Primarch has died, yet this is the only Chapter who went emo as a result. The explanation behind it is generally vague and poorly thought out, but to be honest that can be said about a lot of things in 40k. This is their defining trait, so that makes them a candidate for worst Chapter, but it isn't too bad so they're a Dark House.
Ultramarines-These guys were built off of a fine concept; mostly generic Marines with a Roman Theme. But they made them into ultra Mary Sues. I can't think of a single time they suffered a major defeat and didn't still win whatever war/overall battle they were in. Hell, I can only think of a single defeat they had. Due to this, they're a strong candidate for worst Chapter.
Space Sharks and Rainbow Warriors-Alright, these names are terrible. However, they are so over the top and were down that way on purpose so that I don't think the names are actually that bad. As a result they aren't a contender, but they easily could've been.
Space Wolves-I've explained earlier that they're hipsters. I don't feel like explaining it again, but I'm sure I'll do it if someone asks. In addition, they use the word "Wolf" way too much. This puts them as a strong contender alongside the Ultramarines.
Hawk Lords-Even Slaanesh worshippers aren't allowed to have a colorscheme this bad. However, they have no bad fluff, so they're only a moderate contender.
Grey Knights-Similar to the Ultramarines, they were built on a fine concept and were indeed done well for awhile, but with their recent Codex they've strayed into Mary Sue territories. These guys are a strong contender aswell.
Doom Eagles-They're like the Rainbow Warriors, except their name wasn't a satire on terrible names. It actually was a terrible name. But that's their only flaw, making these guys a weak contender.
Mantis Warriors, Lamenters and Executioners-Heretics are never let off. Yeah, I know they were treated badly, but normally the Imperium would've obilterated them and then obilterated the dust. Thus these three Chapters are a moderate contender.
Dark Angels-Used to be good, but their secret is stupid and uncreative at all. Woop de doo, some of your Chapter fell to Chaos, SO DID EVERYONE ELSE ACCEPT THE GREY KNIGHTS. You aren't unique. Having their defining thing be something stupid makes the Dark Angels a strong contender. And the winner is....
Spoiler:
My own fanmade Chapter I made when I first started playing 40k. Mary Sue, Unoriginal and Terrible Color Scheme all in one. It was years ago, so hopefully I'm better now. Hopefully.
In the Blood Angels defense, they don't choose to be emo like DA. The Rage is caused by a psychic backlash from Sanguinus's death. They are actually proud of their primarch's death as the chink in the armor story goes.
Omegus wrote:Yet the Space Wolves harbored traitors far more recently, considering how many of them defected to the Red Corsairs.
The splint among the Dark Angels was all the Lion's fault, anyway. That guy was a dumbass.
Still missing the point. Lots of Marines turn traitor at this point in the 40k history.
During the Heresy, the Dark Angels were the only loyal legion to have traitors amongst them. They kept that hidden from their brothers, and the Imperium, and have done so for 10,000 years. Knowing there were traitors in the legion would have brought about a lot of distrust towards at the time of the Heresy, possibly even excommunication. At that point the Imperium wasn't really looking to play nice with people suspected of heresy. After keeping the secret for 10,000 years, it just makes it look like they have even more to hide from the outside.
Damn it -Loki- i just wasted my time looking for info you literally just posted
well i was going to say that anyone who thinks the Dark Angels are just crybaby little emos hasn't really read anything about them...
From Lexicanum, its kinda long so as a courtesy
Spoiler:
The Great Betrayal
The Dark Angels returned to Caliban after the war, but they were fired upon by the planetary defences. They were forced to assault their own homeworld, where they found that their brethren had betrayed them. In a duel which mirrored that of the Emperor and Horus, Luther and Lion El'Jonson fought, resulting in Luther mortally wounding his former friend. Luther went insane upon realizing he had struck down his close friend and was captured. In a fit of rage at being defeated once again, the Chaos Gods opened a warp rift in the planet which scattered the traitorous "Fallen Angels" throughout the galaxy.1 One of the "Fallen Angels" who escaped is Cypher, who reportedly took with him the Lion Blade, the sword of El'Jonson, when he was sent through the warp.
The Dark Angel space fleet also bombarded the planet mercilessly, and this caused the structure of the planet to collapse. The bombardment, combined with the newly formed warp rift, broke the planet up and it is now an asteroid field.
This betrayal has tainted their honour in the eyes of the Dark Angels themselves. Given that the event was purely within the Legion itself, and was on a world far from Terra, nobody outside of the Legion knows it occurred. Within the Chapters itself, only the elite veterans are permitted this knowledge - in the modern Dark Angels Chapter, only the Deathwing and senior officers know this secret. The Chapter leadership will go to great lengths to ensure that this knowledge does not reach the Imperium at large, even at times going so far as to disobey direct orders from Inquisitors and cause overly curious individuals to "disappear".
Only the most senior members, known as the Inner Circle, know the greatest secret - that Luther, the great traitor, is still alive and insane, living in a cell deep within the Rock. Lion El'Jonson's body was supposedly never found; Luther claims, in his near-senseless mutterings, that the Lion is near and will return and forgive him. The Lion actually sleeps in the most secret chamber in the rock, his presence known only by the Watchers in the Dark and the Emperor himself, until the time he will awaken and lead his chapter on a new and even greater crusade.
Controversy of 'The Great Betrayal'
In the novel 'Angels of Darkness' by Gav Thorpe, a different version of the events of Caliban is presented. Here it is presented that a Terran Dark Angels 'Chapter Master Astelan' is the one that ordered the planetary defenses to shoot at the returning Dark Angels. This terrible truth is uncovered by the Dark Angels Chaplain Boreas.
This controversy is furthermore reinforced in the novel 'Fallen Angels' by Mike Lee, where Luther is portrayed as the 'savior of Caliban', the betrayal is pictured as a liberation from the empire for the sake of Caliban. Furthermore Astelan is put in charge of Caliban's entire defense.
Joetaco wrote:Damn it -Loki- i just wasted my time looking for info you literally just posted
well i was going to say that anyone who thinks the Dark Angels are just crybaby little emos hasn't really read anything about them...
From Lexicanum, its kinda long so as a courtesy
Spoiler:
The Great Betrayal
The Dark Angels returned to Caliban after the war, but they were fired upon by the planetary defences. They were forced to assault their own homeworld, where they found that their brethren had betrayed them. In a duel which mirrored that of the Emperor and Horus, Luther and Lion El'Jonson fought, resulting in Luther mortally wounding his former friend. Luther went insane upon realizing he had struck down his close friend and was captured. In a fit of rage at being defeated once again, the Chaos Gods opened a warp rift in the planet which scattered the traitorous "Fallen Angels" throughout the galaxy.1 One of the "Fallen Angels" who escaped is Cypher, who reportedly took with him the Lion Blade, the sword of El'Jonson, when he was sent through the warp.
The Dark Angel space fleet also bombarded the planet mercilessly, and this caused the structure of the planet to collapse. The bombardment, combined with the newly formed warp rift, broke the planet up and it is now an asteroid field.
This betrayal has tainted their honour in the eyes of the Dark Angels themselves. Given that the event was purely within the Legion itself, and was on a world far from Terra, nobody outside of the Legion knows it occurred. Within the Chapters itself, only the elite veterans are permitted this knowledge - in the modern Dark Angels Chapter, only the Deathwing and senior officers know this secret. The Chapter leadership will go to great lengths to ensure that this knowledge does not reach the Imperium at large, even at times going so far as to disobey direct orders from Inquisitors and cause overly curious individuals to "disappear".
Only the most senior members, known as the Inner Circle, know the greatest secret - that Luther, the great traitor, is still alive and insane, living in a cell deep within the Rock. Lion El'Jonson's body was supposedly never found; Luther claims, in his near-senseless mutterings, that the Lion is near and will return and forgive him. The Lion actually sleeps in the most secret chamber in the rock, his presence known only by the Watchers in the Dark and the Emperor himself, until the time he will awaken and lead his chapter on a new and even greater crusade.
Controversy of 'The Great Betrayal'
In the novel 'Angels of Darkness' by Gav Thorpe, a different version of the events of Caliban is presented. Here it is presented that a Terran Dark Angels 'Chapter Master Astelan' is the one that ordered the planetary defenses to shoot at the returning Dark Angels. This terrible truth is uncovered by the Dark Angels Chaplain Boreas.
This controversy is furthermore reinforced in the novel 'Fallen Angels' by Mike Lee, where Luther is portrayed as the 'savior of Caliban', the betrayal is pictured as a liberation from the empire for the sake of Caliban. Furthermore Astelan is put in charge of Caliban's entire defense.
None of this contradicted the cry baby feel I get from them, in fact most of it is the information that makes me think they are cry babies.
Joetaco wrote:Damn it -Loki- i just wasted my time looking for info you literally just posted
well i was going to say that anyone who thinks the Dark Angels are just crybaby little emos hasn't really read anything about them...
From Lexicanum, its kinda long so as a courtesy
Spoiler:
The Great Betrayal
The Dark Angels returned to Caliban after the war, but they were fired upon by the planetary defences. They were forced to assault their own homeworld, where they found that their brethren had betrayed them. In a duel which mirrored that of the Emperor and Horus, Luther and Lion El'Jonson fought, resulting in Luther mortally wounding his former friend. Luther went insane upon realizing he had struck down his close friend and was captured. In a fit of rage at being defeated once again, the Chaos Gods opened a warp rift in the planet which scattered the traitorous "Fallen Angels" throughout the galaxy.1 One of the "Fallen Angels" who escaped is Cypher, who reportedly took with him the Lion Blade, the sword of El'Jonson, when he was sent through the warp.
The Dark Angel space fleet also bombarded the planet mercilessly, and this caused the structure of the planet to collapse. The bombardment, combined with the newly formed warp rift, broke the planet up and it is now an asteroid field.
This betrayal has tainted their honour in the eyes of the Dark Angels themselves. Given that the event was purely within the Legion itself, and was on a world far from Terra, nobody outside of the Legion knows it occurred. Within the Chapters itself, only the elite veterans are permitted this knowledge - in the modern Dark Angels Chapter, only the Deathwing and senior officers know this secret. The Chapter leadership will go to great lengths to ensure that this knowledge does not reach the Imperium at large, even at times going so far as to disobey direct orders from Inquisitors and cause overly curious individuals to "disappear".
Only the most senior members, known as the Inner Circle, know the greatest secret - that Luther, the great traitor, is still alive and insane, living in a cell deep within the Rock. Lion El'Jonson's body was supposedly never found; Luther claims, in his near-senseless mutterings, that the Lion is near and will return and forgive him. The Lion actually sleeps in the most secret chamber in the rock, his presence known only by the Watchers in the Dark and the Emperor himself, until the time he will awaken and lead his chapter on a new and even greater crusade.
Controversy of 'The Great Betrayal'
In the novel 'Angels of Darkness' by Gav Thorpe, a different version of the events of Caliban is presented. Here it is presented that a Terran Dark Angels 'Chapter Master Astelan' is the one that ordered the planetary defenses to shoot at the returning Dark Angels. This terrible truth is uncovered by the Dark Angels Chaplain Boreas.
This controversy is furthermore reinforced in the novel 'Fallen Angels' by Mike Lee, where Luther is portrayed as the 'savior of Caliban', the betrayal is pictured as a liberation from the empire for the sake of Caliban. Furthermore Astelan is put in charge of Caliban's entire defense.
None of this contradicted the cry baby feel I get from them, in fact most of it is the information that makes me think they are cry babies.
They're keeping Luther one of the biggest traitors alive that's a pretty big secret, and you know a little heretical.
black templar wrote:Ultramarines should have been destroyed in the heresy and save us aload of trouble.
Pray tell, what 'bother' has the Ultramarines caused 'us'?
What trouble? Every space marine video game (save dawn of war thank the gods) and other spin off has been about these vanilla unisteresting jerk offs who, despite being the face of the franchise, totally fail to emphasize the awsome baroque/grimdark/faux-medieval gothicness of the 40k setting to people who are new to it.
A person who's never seen anything involving 40k before who see's something involing the ultramarines is just going to think "Oh blue super soldiers, guess this is just some sci-fi thing." and that's a shame, especially if the product had involved any of a number of other chapters (Blood Ravens, Dark Angels, Silver skulls, Imperial Fists, hell thell the list goes on and on) that really bring that touch of the medieval that so defines the setting.
That's why the Ultramarines can suck start their bolters for all I care.
(Also pardon the spelling/gramar as I wrote this at work- work being a patrol car)
They've been in Space Marine, which has placed 40k as it should be into the mainstream, and the Ultramarines movie, which was a failure. So that's two spin offs, a major success and a failure.
black templar wrote:Ultramarines should have been destroyed in the heresy and save us aload of trouble.
Pray tell, what 'bother' has the Ultramarines caused 'us'?
What trouble? Every space marine video game (save dawn of war thank the gods) and other spin off has been about these vanilla unisteresting jerk offs who, despite being the face of the franchise, totally fail to emphasize the awsome baroque/grimdark/faux-medieval gothicness of the 40k setting to people who are new to it.
A person who's never seen anything involving 40k before who see's something involing the ultramarines is just going to think "Oh blue super soldiers, guess this is just some sci-fi thing." and that's a shame, especially if the product had involved any of a number of other chapters (Blood Ravens, Dark Angels, Silver skulls, Imperial Fists, hell thell the list goes on and on) that really bring that touch of the medieval that so defines the setting.
That's why the Ultramarines can suck start their bolters for all I care.
(Also pardon the spelling/gramar as I wrote this at work- work being a patrol car)
They've been in Space Marine, which has placed 40k as it should be into the mainstream, and the Ultramarines movie, which was a failure. So that's two spin offs, a major success and a failure.
BLUHD REHVENS and Black Templar made cameos in SPESS MEHREEN. Imperial Fists made cameos in ULTRAMEHREENS. And honestly, their portrayal in both works is pretty spot on re: Space Marines as warrior monks as opposed to generic supersoldiers.
Joetaco wrote:Damn it -Loki- i just wasted my time looking for info you literally just posted
well i was going to say that anyone who thinks the Dark Angels are just crybaby little emos hasn't really read anything about them...
From Lexicanum, its kinda long so as a courtesy
Spoiler:
The Great Betrayal
The Dark Angels returned to Caliban after the war, but they were fired upon by the planetary defences. They were forced to assault their own homeworld, where they found that their brethren had betrayed them. In a duel which mirrored that of the Emperor and Horus, Luther and Lion El'Jonson fought, resulting in Luther mortally wounding his former friend. Luther went insane upon realizing he had struck down his close friend and was captured. In a fit of rage at being defeated once again, the Chaos Gods opened a warp rift in the planet which scattered the traitorous "Fallen Angels" throughout the galaxy.1 One of the "Fallen Angels" who escaped is Cypher, who reportedly took with him the Lion Blade, the sword of El'Jonson, when he was sent through the warp.
The Dark Angel space fleet also bombarded the planet mercilessly, and this caused the structure of the planet to collapse. The bombardment, combined with the newly formed warp rift, broke the planet up and it is now an asteroid field.
This betrayal has tainted their honour in the eyes of the Dark Angels themselves. Given that the event was purely within the Legion itself, and was on a world far from Terra, nobody outside of the Legion knows it occurred. Within the Chapters itself, only the elite veterans are permitted this knowledge - in the modern Dark Angels Chapter, only the Deathwing and senior officers know this secret. The Chapter leadership will go to great lengths to ensure that this knowledge does not reach the Imperium at large, even at times going so far as to disobey direct orders from Inquisitors and cause overly curious individuals to "disappear".
Only the most senior members, known as the Inner Circle, know the greatest secret - that Luther, the great traitor, is still alive and insane, living in a cell deep within the Rock. Lion El'Jonson's body was supposedly never found; Luther claims, in his near-senseless mutterings, that the Lion is near and will return and forgive him. The Lion actually sleeps in the most secret chamber in the rock, his presence known only by the Watchers in the Dark and the Emperor himself, until the time he will awaken and lead his chapter on a new and even greater crusade.
Controversy of 'The Great Betrayal'
In the novel 'Angels of Darkness' by Gav Thorpe, a different version of the events of Caliban is presented. Here it is presented that a Terran Dark Angels 'Chapter Master Astelan' is the one that ordered the planetary defenses to shoot at the returning Dark Angels. This terrible truth is uncovered by the Dark Angels Chaplain Boreas.
This controversy is furthermore reinforced in the novel 'Fallen Angels' by Mike Lee, where Luther is portrayed as the 'savior of Caliban', the betrayal is pictured as a liberation from the empire for the sake of Caliban. Furthermore Astelan is put in charge of Caliban's entire defense.
None of this contradicted the cry baby feel I get from them, in fact most of it is the information that makes me think they are cry babies.
They're keeping Luther one of the biggest traitors alive that's a pretty big secret, and you know a little heretical.
They're keeping him alive to be interrogated and tortured every few years they wake him up. The Inquisition does this all the time. Even from you point of view that is still redeemable, or could have been fixed long ago and very easily instead of being all sad and secretive about it.
LoneLictor wrote:Hrmm, worst Space Marine Chapter. Let's see.
Salamanders-No, they couldn't just have someone with a dark skin color! They had to have their skin LITERALLY BURNT BLACK by the sun! Yeah, that's pretty stupid. However, the rest of their fluff is good and stuff to distinguish them from other Chapters, so they aren't the worst.
That makes them badass, they have grown a mutation that basically makes them badasses. I love the Salamanders You cannot deny the awesome within them
Blood Angels-Alright, every Loyalist Primarch has died, yet this is the only Chapter who went emo as a result. The explanation behind it is generally vague and poorly thought out, but to be honest that can be said about a lot of things in 40k. This is their defining trait, so that makes them a candidate for worst Chapter, but it isn't too bad so they're a Dark House.
Agreed, except it is the Vampires in space that makes me dislike them. I like them when they were better
Ultramarines-These guys were built off of a fine concept; mostly generic Marines with a Roman Theme. But they made them into ultra Mary Sues. I can't think of a single time they suffered a major defeat and didn't still win whatever war/overall battle they were in. Hell, I can only think of a single defeat they had. Due to this, they're a strong candidate for worst Chapter.
Agreed
Space Sharks and Rainbow Warriors-Alright, these names are terrible. However, they are so over the top and were down that way on purpose so that I don't think the names are actually that bad. As a result they aren't a contender, but they easily could've been.
Correction they are now called the Carcharodons (which if translated correctly = massive shark) Rainbow warriors were annihalted and don't exist anymore so they aren't a contender.
Space Wolves-I've explained earlier that they're hipsters. I don't feel like explaining it again, but I'm sure I'll do it if someone asks. In addition, they use the word "Wolf" way too much. This puts them as a strong contender alongside the Ultramarines.
The only real attraction to the Space Wolves was when they were vikings, not wolves.
Hawk Lords-Even Slaanesh worshippers aren't allowed to have a colorscheme this bad. However, they have no bad fluff, so they're only a moderate contender.
Grey Knights-Similar to the Ultramarines, they were built on a fine concept and were indeed done well for awhile, but with their recent Codex they've strayed into Mary Sue territories. These guys are a strong contender aswell.
agreed
Doom Eagles-They're like the Rainbow Warriors, except their name wasn't a satire on terrible names. It actually was a terrible name. But that's their only flaw, making these guys a weak contender.
Thats now why people dislike them .It is because they are truely the most emo chapter ever...
Mantis Warriors, Lamenters and Executioners-Heretics are never let off. Yeah, I know they were treated badly, but normally the Imperium would've obilterated them and then obilterated the dust. Thus these three Chapters are a moderate contender.
Those chapters are really good. Executioners redeemed themselves and killed alot of astral claws, and were given less punishment because they helped the salamanders out big time.
Dark Angels-Used to be good, but their secret is stupid and uncreative at all. Woop de doo, some of your Chapter fell to Chaos, SO DID EVERYONE ELSE ACCEPT THE GREY KNIGHTS. You aren't unique. Having their defining thing be something stupid makes the Dark Angels a strong contender. And the winner is....
yup Agreed. Color scheme = ftw though.
Spoiler:
My own fanmade Chapter I made when I first started playing 40k. Mary Sue, Unoriginal and Terrible Color Scheme all in one. It was years ago, so hopefully I'm better now. Hopefully.
I have seen alot worse trust me. At my store some kid made a copy and paste Space Marine chapter that had the ultramarines as their main best buddies, their chapter symbol was poke-a-dots, and they had pink shoulder pads and their chapter master had dual thunder hammers and wings, and a terminator helmet for a head.... Mary Sues..... To the MAX! They had yet to lose a battle, and they won ever battle they went to and they have been around since the great crusades. arghhhh. Now that is a bad chapter not to make fun of the kid, but he kept calling my chapter slowed. But anyway i have proven my point the worst chapters are the Blood Angels and the Death Knights.
Space Wolfs. Definitely Space Wolfs. Think about the council of Nakea.
Space Wolf Rune Priest (psyker): PSYKERS ARE BAD!
Mangus: Wait, you are a psyker, right?
Space Wolf Rune Priest: NO! I am a rune priest!. My power comes from the natural changes of Fenris! PSYKERS ARE BAD!
Mangus: No, your power comes from the warp-
Space Wolf Rune Priest: NO NO NO, PSYKERS ARE BAD. DIE, DIE DIE! WHY ISN'T THIS LIGHTNING I'M THROWING AT YOU KILLING YOU? DIE DIE DIE!
Mangus: -sigh- Ima go now
Phiasco II wrote:Space Wolfs. Definitely Space Wolfs. Think about the council of Nakea.
Space Wolf Rune Priest (psyker): PSYKERS ARE BAD!
Mangus: Wait, you are a psyker, right?
Space Wolf Rune Priest: NO! I am a rune priest!. My power comes from the natural changes of Fenris! PSYKERS ARE BAD!
Mangus: No, your power comes from the warp-
Space Wolf Rune Priest: NO NO NO, PSYKERS ARE BAD. DIE, DIE DIE! WHY ISN'T THIS LIGHTNING I'M THROWING AT YOU KILLING YOU? DIE DIE DIE!
Mangus: -sigh- Ima go now
Phiasco II wrote:Space Wolfs. Definitely Space Wolfs. Think about the council of Nakea.
Space Wolf Rune Priest (psyker): PSYKERS ARE BAD!
Mangus: Wait, you are a psyker, right?
Space Wolf Rune Priest: NO! I am a rune priest!. My power comes from the natural changes of Fenris! PSYKERS ARE BAD!
Mangus: No, your power comes from the warp-
Space Wolf Rune Priest: NO NO NO, PSYKERS ARE BAD. DIE, DIE DIE! WHY ISN'T THIS LIGHTNING I'M THROWING AT YOU KILLING YOU? DIE DIE DIE!
Mangus: -sigh- Ima go now
"This practice of psychic powers is carried out through the shamanistic rituals of the Fenrisian native tribes and has remained unchanged for countless centuries" taken from lexicanum
Sorta suggests that their way of using the warp has been traditional and effective if it has been practised for countless of centuries - see its like the emperor, he uses psychic powers, most of his sons knew this but because the emperor had perfect control of it, it seemed that he was not using the warp, same for rune priests, they are using the warp but for their culture its not but Magnus and the others admitted to using the warp they accepted that they use the same energy as the evil gods hence BAD....
Phiasco II wrote:Space Wolfs. Definitely Space Wolfs. Think about the council of Nakea.
Space Wolf Rune Priest (psyker): PSYKERS ARE BAD!
Mangus: Wait, you are a psyker, right?
Space Wolf Rune Priest: NO! I am a rune priest!. My power comes from the natural changes of Fenris! PSYKERS ARE BAD!
Mangus: No, your power comes from the warp-
Space Wolf Rune Priest: NO NO NO, PSYKERS ARE BAD. DIE, DIE DIE! WHY ISN'T THIS LIGHTNING I'M THROWING AT YOU KILLING YOU? DIE DIE DIE!
Mangus: -sigh- Ima go now
"This practice of psychic powers is carried out through the shamanistic rituals of the Fenrisian native tribes and has remained unchanged for countless centuries" taken from lexicanum
Sorta suggests that their way of using the warp has been traditional and effective if it has been practised for countless of centuries - see its like the emperor, he uses psychic powers, most of his sons knew this but because the emperor had perfect control of it, it seemed that he was not using the warp, same for rune priests, they are using the warp but for their culture its not but Magnus and the others admitted to using the warp they accepted that they use the same energy as the evil gods hence BAD....
Their power still comes from the warp, they are still psykers. Thinking that their power comes from shamanistic rituals of Fenris makes me think the Space Wolfs should have been put down for heresy. Doesn't that sound like the very kind of believe the Great Crusade was stamping out wherever they found it?
Considering that the Emperor was supposedly created from the combined souls of a thousand SHAMANS or some crap like that to create the perfect being I would say there is a clear difference between what Magnus was doing and what the rune priests do.
yevix wrote:"This practice of psychic powers is carried out through the shamanistic rituals of the Fenrisian native tribes and has remained unchanged for countless centuries" taken from lexicanum
Sorta suggests that their way of using the warp has been traditional and effective if it has been practised for countless of centuries - see its like the emperor, he uses psychic powers, most of his sons knew this but because the emperor had perfect control of it, it seemed that he was not using the warp, same for rune priests, they are using the warp but for their culture its not but Magnus and the others admitted to using the warp they accepted that they use the same energy as the evil gods hence BAD....
So the Wolf Priests are deluded hypocrites who are not hypocritical because they're deluded?
I guess they're like Orks. Rationalism really does not have a place in 40k.
Nagashek wrote:Crimson Fists. During an Ork invasion they shot a missle straight up from their fortress monastery. Then it came back down and killed nearly everyone.
gg, noob.
nice knowledge of the fluff. Ancient defense sights on rynns world had to rapidly be brought back to working order before Waagh Snagrod hit. Orks, being orks, exited the warp much closer to the planet that expected, taking many casualties, but arriving way before expected. So PDF of the Rynns world and servitors manned the defense missiles while a portion of Fists was in new rynn city and the rest remained at their monastery. the void shields over both protected the fists, but as the ork firestorm ended; the shields were dropped and the Fists unleased their fury. A missile malfunctioned, drove into the mountain encasing the monastary and some how bypassed the void shield protecting the army. the explosion set off a chain reaction, destroying the monastery and killing many of the fists. about 200-400 (i forget exactly how many and don't care enought to look) Crimson fists survived the battle for rynns world including their chapter master and captain of the 4th, but they emerged triumphant.
So not their fault in any way shape or form, they got unlucky (or if you believe rumors, they were sabotaged). So really bad reason to claim the Crimson Fists are a bad chapter.
Actually Joetaco, that's a good point and I also think as a side note the new Rynn's world book showed how the conception of the 40k universe has changed over the years
That original old piece of art on the cover of 40k (I will post it below just because it's great! ) showed exactly what the 40k universe was about. This was a dark and bitter place - even as they are fighting on, you can see in amongst the shadowy figures in the background and the missiles arching in overhead that these guys are finished. But, despite their impending doom, there was something noble in it - a desperation that acts to be extremely evocative for the reader, of fighting on despite knowing that they were going to die. And this picture was really a microcosm of the entire Imperium, of Humanity being on the slow slide to destruction. All of our science, our progress, it has all gone for nothing and our enemies are waiting at the door to take everything from us. Damn is it dark and haunting, but it was I think a wonderfully unique version of the future in amongst the masses of Hollywood inspired 'good feeling' stuff that was going round at the time - of Han Solo coming back to save Luke and get the girl, of a small band of boys ganging together to put a lost little alien back in touch with its parents. If 40k had made ET, it would have had the parents return and neutron-bomb the earth for trying to vivisect their little kid.
And so the Steve Parker novel. I enjoyed it, but for me it represented a real change of concept of the 40k universe. The single, most notable failure and loss, the one that served had served as a poster, incapsulating the entire ethos of the 40k universe in a single image, had had the rug pulled out from under it. Despite everything, the tremendous loss of marines and destruction of the fortress monastery, the tone and character of the book left you feeling like it had somehow been a victory for the Space Marines. That, for me, has marked a turning point, a mark in the evolution of how the 40k universe is being conceptualised by both the writers and readers. It's a little nicer to swallow, that's for sure, but in my own view it has lost a little something that helped separate it from the crowd.
Correction they are now called the Carcharodons (which if translated correctly = massive shark) Rainbow warriors were annihalted and don't exist anymore so they aren't a contender.
Can I please ask where you got this information from? Is it from the old RT art of the Battle Sister shooting one of them or something more?
++EDIT++ Sorry, forgot I would post this! Even if they are going to die, I still think they are doing it in an awesome looking way
Correction they are now called the Carcharodons (which if translated correctly = massive shark) Rainbow warriors were annihalted and don't exist anymore so they aren't a contender.
Can I please ask where you got this information from? Is it from the old RT art of the Battle Sister shooting one of them or something more?
++EDIT++ Sorry, forgot I would post this! Even if they are going to die, I still think they are doing it in an awesome looking way
Lexicanum, Imperail Armor Carchardons are the space sharks, but Carchardons are a prehistoric shark. Rainbow warriors were called heretics by the Inqusition and were wiped out. Lexicanum Btw the Crimson fists are badasses, and they still survive to this day. They are now above 250 battle brothers at least...
OK thanks for that Asherian Command. I may be being a bit slow but Lexicanum doesn't seem to have that information on the Rainbow Warriors. Does anyone have a current space marine codex to hand? I believe the information about the Rainbow Warriors is on p30.
By the way if you guys want to see some great older artwork (some of the commissioned stuff used to be awesome, especially if you like 80's airbrushing and oils technique of art!) check out this thread, skip through the comments though and just look at the pics
yevix wrote:"This practice of psychic powers is carried out through the shamanistic rituals of the Fenrisian native tribes and has remained unchanged for countless centuries" taken from lexicanum
Sorta suggests that their way of using the warp has been traditional and effective if it has been practised for countless of centuries - see its like the emperor, he uses psychic powers, most of his sons knew this but because the emperor had perfect control of it, it seemed that he was not using the warp, same for rune priests, they are using the warp but for their culture its not but Magnus and the others admitted to using the warp they accepted that they use the same energy as the evil gods hence BAD....
So the Wolf Priests are deluded hypocrites who are not hypocritical because they're deluded?
I guess they're like Orks. Rationalism really does not have a place in 40k.
Pacific wrote:OK thanks for that Asherian Command. I may be being a bit slow but Lexicanum doesn't seem to have that information on the Rainbow Warriors. Does anyone have a current space marine codex to hand? I believe the information about the Rainbow Warriors is on p30.
By the way if you guys want to see some great older artwork (some of the commissioned stuff used to be awesome, especially if you like 80's airbrushing and oils technique of art!) check out this thread, skip through the comments though and just look at the pics
Well im gonna have to go with that chapter who is trying to fight fire with fire by using chaos artifacts...
HOW DO YOU THINK THAT IS GONNA TURN OUT
BTWS, dont anyone think of suggesting the Brazen Claws, cause they flew their entire fleet into the Eye of Terror, AND SURVIVED.
They are now fighting on Cadia, and kicking A**
Haven't read all the other contenders, but for me, hands down:
Doom eagles
Jeebus, if i wanne see some emo crap going on i just need to go to a pub around here on the weekend, thats bad enough. Now i get superpowered emos who (at least for me) cut themselves even more than other marines (pain punishment), but hey, they heal. So they are basically super-emos xD
iDevour wrote:Haven't read all the other contenders, but for me, hands down:
Doom eagles
Jeebus, if i wanne see some emo crap going on i just need to go to a pub around here on the weekend, thats bad enough. Now i get superpowered emos who (at least for me) cut themselves even more than other marines (pain punishment), but hey, they heal. So they are basically super-emos xD
Also, please stop saying "emo" as a catchall term for anything whiny, filled with angst or sullen. Develop a larger vocabulary instead of using an already misappropriated title for a genre of music.
EDIT: Just realized you're not a native speaker. Sorry dude.
iDevour wrote:Haven't read all the other contenders, but for me, hands down:
Doom eagles
Jeebus, if i wanne see some emo crap going on i just need to go to a pub around here on the weekend, thats bad enough. Now i get superpowered emos who (at least for me) cut themselves even more than other marines (pain punishment), but hey, they heal. So they are basically super-emos xD
What source? I know they are apathetic but don't remember reading the cutting part?
Also, please stop saying "emo" as a catchall term for anything whiny, filled with angst or sullen. Develop a larger vocabulary instead of using an already misappropriated title for a genre of music.
EDIT: Just realized you're not a native speaker. Sorry dude.
I know what emo is, thank you But even as a subculture that originated from punk..still bleh xD
But tbh i don't care much either way, peopel can do whatever they want.
What i do care about though is making stupid jokes about stereotypes, because they are so stupid you HAVE to laugh at them ^^v
And since space marines DO tend to cut themselves (deeply i might add..brrrr..) to punish themselves (paradigm further down, to answer deathsheads question) and the "all emos cut themselves"-stereotype is so stupid...it just popped into my head.
Being a carebear type of person myself i didn't want to offend anyone, so sorry if that was poorly phrased : )
edit: Btw if you feel the need to correct me, point out errors or add new words to my vocabulary, feel free to do so
Deathshead420 wrote:What source? I know they are apathetic but don't remember reading the cutting part?
Well, about the cutting: In the Ultramarines novels, Pasanius cuts himself so deep to atone for [Removed by Authority of the Holy Inquisition on Terra] that he even has deep scars Uriel Ventris can see later on..and for space marines that has to be one hell of a cut :>
So i guess every SpaceMarine could punish himself that way. I was just taking a jab at the "cutting emo"-stereotype.
There is a short story about the DoomEagle in "Legends of the Space Marines" (i think) that does make me think they never had a good laugh in their whole life though...so thats kinda.. xD
Also, please stop saying "emo" as a catchall term for anything whiny, filled with angst or sullen. Develop a larger vocabulary instead of using an already misappropriated title for a genre of music.
EDIT: Just realized you're not a native speaker. Sorry dude.
Yet that genre is whiny and filled with angst. "Emo" is a perfectly adequate catch-all term, stop being so emo about it.
Brother Ramses wrote:Considering that the Emperor was supposedly created from the combined souls of a thousand SHAMANS or some crap like that to create the perfect being I would say there is a clear difference between what Magnus was doing and what the rune priests do.
In the application maybe. They're still huge hypocrites who use ritualistic methods to unleash the power of the Warp despite decrying other for the same thing.
Yes, Super Snowflake Spess Wulves are AWFUL. I quite like the Ultramarines' "Space Roman" image. They kind of remind meof the Praetorian Guard from Gladiator. Blood Angels are cool, save for their unimaginitive naming traditions. Iron Hands need some love. Stop picking on them. Dark Angels aren't THAT whiney, when you consider fully 50% of them jumped ships. Hawk Lords don't really have such a bad colour scheme.
Space Wolves are not bad guys
people just seem to think that they are stereotypical vikings(even though they aren't) that automatically rebel against authority(for good reason) just to be the coolest most bad ass chapter ever and fail to see how what they are doing is essential. A rune priest is not going to be tempted by chaos the same way a regular psycher is because Fenrisian rituals that they go through sort of form a natural deterant to chaos.
Its impossible for them to be hypocrites
Russ Mandarin wrote:Space Wolves are not bad guys
people just seem to think that they are stereotypical vikings that automatically rebel against authority to be the coolest most bad ass chapter ever and fail to see how what they are doing is essential. A rune priest is not going to be tempted by chaos the same way a psycher is because Fenrisian rituals is sort of like a natural deterant to chaos.
nah its because space wolves were big d-bags during the horus heresy.
I can't imagine how anyone after reading Prospero Burns would think they were being D-bags.
The Space Wolves were basically resigned to a role that would make them executioners for the Emperor. They respected that role but it still weighed heavily on them
Coolyo294 wrote:Da SPESS WHULVES for being special snowflake super marines.
This. Their fluff tries to make them out to be the best at everything all the time, they're Space Pranksters, Spymasters, Star Vikings, Dark Executioners, Pysker Haters, Drunken Barbarians, Werewolves, Space Berzerkers, Brash Warriors, Sullen and Humble soldiers, Egotistical Bravado Freaks, Power Psykers, Space Warfare Masters, Siege Specialists, Close Combat Enthusiasts, etc all in one and they just come off...awful, contradictory, confused and juvenile. Granted this *is* 40k we're talking about, but even for 40k they take it too far.
EDIT: also, as originally postulated by others, they've also got a hipster vibe about them
"Yeah, psykers are bad, we have Runepriests, they get their power from the native energy of Fenris, you've probably never heard of it..."
OMG they are riding Wolves and are really good at close combat that's about it.
Don't tack on more pointless characteristics that can be said about any chapter.
Russ Mandarin wrote:OMG they are riding Wolves and are really good at close combat that's about it.
Don't tack on more pointless characteristics that can be said about any chapter.
Russ Mandarin wrote:OMG they are riding Wolves and are really good at close combat that's about it. Don't tack on more pointless characteristics that can be said about any chapter.
Lol. You do know what you're talking about, don't you? Oh no, you don't. Go and look through the threads, there's no need to re-post the 15 unique reasons why Space Wolves are the worst Chapter.
KilroyKiljoy wrote:Rainbow Warriors. Like, really? You couldn't even try to be original with a reference, instead of flat-out STATING it?
I think if anything, it just shows how the scale of 40k has changed from quite humble beginnings. Remember at that time it was just some guys working together in a basement and knocking all of this stuff together, I don't think they ever could have imagined that 25 years later there would be tens of thousands of people picking through it with a fine-tooth comb!
Squigsquasher wrote:Rss Mandarin, you need to read A Thousand Sons. Just read the bit on Nikea. Everything said against the Space Wolves will be utterly vindicated.
Iv'e already read it and then to be fair you would need to also read Prospero Burns too just to get the whole picture but nope I can tell you are happy with the mad hypocritical Space Idiots that the Thousand Sons painted them as.
It really maddens me how people are so jealous of the space wolves. I mean the people who hate against them plot really petty points. Codex overpowered? No. ALL codexes are overpowered, it just depends on which units you field. If you are fighting an overpowered army, you field an overpowered army. Simples.
Again, the fluff. I really don't mind the Viking/Werewolf fluff. The developers are simply taking popular mythology and history of some of the greatest warrior races and putting them together. I completely agree with the wolves, thunderwolves are ott, yet i still find them extremely appealing even if it does cheapen their entire image. Blood Angels are just as bad being renaissaince vampires and the Ultramarines being Ultra Romans. All im trying to say is for every bad point you make against a chapter, it can be applied to another chapter.
Durza wrote:Surely the Hawk Lords should be destroyed for wearing the original colours of one of the Traitor Legions?
So your calling the black templars heretics? anyone who wears the colors of a now heretical group? Are you insane? That would mean the entire blood angels chapter would be screwed because they wear red.
The Son Of Russ wrote:It really maddens me how people are so jealous of the space wolves. I mean the people who hate against them plot really petty points. Codex overpowered? No. ALL codexes are overpowered, it just depends on which units you field. If you are fighting an overpowered army, you field an overpowered army. Simples.
Again, the fluff. I really don't mind the Viking/Werewolf fluff. The developers are simply taking popular mythology and history of some of the greatest warrior races and putting them together. I completely agree with the wolves, thunderwolves are ott, yet i still find them extremely appealing even if it does cheapen their entire image. Blood Angels are just as bad being renaissaince vampires and the Ultramarines being Ultra Romans. All im trying to say is for every bad point you make against a chapter, it can be applied to another chapter.
Ah, I see. Without any sort of retort to the points against the Space Wolves, you take a stance of superiority. We're "jealous", so our preferences can be dismissed. The Space Wolves have a generally overpowered Codex. You have nothing to say against that. It gives near every option that the regular marine codex, only cheaper and better, in many cases. The fluff is all opinion, and in mine, it's childish, over-the-top, and paints the Space Wolves as giant hypocritical special snowflake hipsters. Death to those who use psykers, but it's OK for us to use Rune Priests, you probably haven't heard of them. We can say screw you to the Inquisition and the Ecclesiarchy due to our massive d-baggery, never mind that some chapters can be declared traitors for opposing Imperium forces. And no, it's not something that can be applied to every other chapter. There's no other that have the same kind of over-use of a theme. Have your own preferences, I really don't care, but if you want to argue, do so with reason and don't belittle the arguments of others as a defence.
Rune Priests are not the same thing as psychers so we might as well just stop trying to go route of calling the space wolves hypocrites because of that. This is something that is supported in their codex and even validated in their own fluff.
"Oh the Space Wolves are super superstitious" Yes and this superstition is an important part of why Space Wolves never turn to chaos.
Apposing the Inquisition is not exclusive to the Space Wolves its a known fact that any chapter (besides maybe the Grey Knigts) would eventually come to conflict with them over most matters if pushed far enough. The Space Wolves don't follow the Codex maybe if other chapters had made this known to Rowboat they would get this type of treatment as well but IDK. Suffice to say the Space Wolves have a pretty damn good reason for not trusting the inquisition.
As for the fluff that surrounds then being childish? That's just an opinion one I don't subscribe too because I know another chapter that goes around stealing things and I don't hear a peep abou them in this thread.
Russ Mandarin wrote:Rune Priests are not the same thing as psychers
Spoken like a true Space Wolf. Long live the hypocrisy. Rune Priests draw their power from the warp, just like every other psyker. They don't want to believe that, so they lie to themselves about it. Space Wolfs ARE the worst most hypocritical chapter ever!...thats imho, of course. Really, it's not surprising that Space Wolf fans share the attribute of assumed superiority of their chosen chapter.
Oh, and just to get the point across...Rune Priests ARE the same thing as psykers. Period. Deal with it.
KilroyKiljoy wrote:Rainbow Warriors. Like, really? You couldn't even try to be original with a reference, instead of flat-out STATING it?
Am I the only one that likes the Rainbow Warriors...??????
Worst chapter IMO has got to be either
A: Ultramarines...I just don't like the whole "every space marines wishes to be an ULTRAMARINE!!!!" It's kinda lame...and the fact they ALWAYS win......
B: Black legion...I like the simple color scheme they have...but Their basically the Ultramarines of chaos...and by that I mean their the general Chaos poster boys...
C: Space sharks...I mean come on... Lets take do the whole "Space" and an animal thing...you know...like the space wolves did...
D: most chapters that have either "space" or "marines" in their name....original much....
Space Wolves hate psychers why would a chapter that is overly superstitious and paranoid about sorcery use psychers? simple answer they don't
Rune Priests draw their power from Fenrisian shaman rituals. They don't touch the warp which is why they don't need Psychic hoods and they don't use Force weapons instead opting for Rune powered weaponry.
The Rune Priests may use different forms of ritual and have a different mindset in terms of what they are doing, but the powers they produce are still coming from the same place.
Russ Mandarin wrote:Rune Priests draw their power from Fenrisian shaman rituals. They don't touch the warp which is why they don't need Psychic hoods and they don't use Force weapons instead opting for Rune powered weaponry.
And, pray tell, where does the power for Fenrisian shaman rituals come from?
If anything the worst chapter remains the Death Knights who are a loyalist chapter that are bright green and have yellow shoulder pads. And pink eyes. the worst chapter ever winner* ding ding ding.
Asherian Command wrote:Space Wolves aren't that bad.
If anything the worst chapter remains the Death Knights who are a loyalist chapter that are bright green and have yellow shoulder pads. And pink eyes. the worst chapter ever winner* ding ding ding.
Actually, that color scheme seems pretty bad ass........lol
Asherian Command wrote:Space Wolves aren't that bad.
If anything the worst chapter remains the Death Knights who are a loyalist chapter that are bright green and have yellow shoulder pads. And pink eyes. the worst chapter ever winner* ding ding ding.
Actually, that color scheme seems pretty bad ass........lol
Asherian Command wrote:Space Wolves aren't that bad.
If anything the worst chapter remains the Death Knights who are a loyalist chapter that are bright green and have yellow shoulder pads. And pink eyes. the worst chapter ever winner* ding ding ding.
Actually, that color scheme seems pretty bad ass........lol
The death knight colors seemed better in words, their was no information on the purple stars...shame...the Betrayers of pain have a dumb name...but they look cool and the skull bearers need a better shade of yellow...
Asherian Command wrote:Space Wolves aren't that bad.
If anything the worst chapter remains the Death Knights who are a loyalist chapter that are bright green and have yellow shoulder pads. And pink eyes. the worst chapter ever winner* ding ding ding.
Actually, that color scheme seems pretty bad ass........lol
The death knight colors seemed better in words, their was no information on the purple stars...shame...the Betrayers of pain have a dumb name...but they look cool and the skull bearers need a better shade of yellow...
If the skull bearers had any other yellow they would be imperial fists.
KilroyKiljoy wrote:On a side note, is there a SINGLE nurgle army that ISN'T green? Like, hell, everything I like has some sort of green to it. Necrons, Orks, Nurgle.....
Srsly, point me to some non-green Nurglitic CSM Warbands
I like that word.....Nurglitic
has a nice ring to it...but seeing as though green/brown are Nurgles colors...I would assume such warbands are scarce.
I don't know which I dislike the most. I dislike the vampire-marine idea, but don't know the fluff well enough to be overly critical. Not a fan of their models or those of the SW all that much, but don't know the SW fluff well enough to be all that cranky about them.
Hmm...
I play a DA codex army, but I have to agree on the "big secret" criticism, and how it could have been something much more cool.
I actually LIKE the idea of the Blood Ravens being Alpha Legion who've been wiped or whatever, so they're out.
The Ultrasmurfs are somewhat annoying in the double meaning of the name and how frequently they're seen, but I like a lot of the veteran schemes.
I guess that would bring me to the Astral Claws - d-bags extraordinaire led by a nut-job megalomaniac. Yep, least favorite chapter is the Astral Claws.
Just saying: I like the space wolves. So according to some posts in here now im a hypocrit and a superiority complex plagued d-bag?
Err...well i've been called worse xD
I mean i do know that they use the warp (even though they say they don't) and that some descriptions are over the top etcetc..but seriously, which chapter is really not being described as "the best" in their codex?
Everyone is entitled to their oppinion, so i don't want to add to this flamefest. But i think you can't just take everything with a grain of salt (i hope thats the right expression O.o).
I mean, in one Codex, *this army* is totally unstopapble, aware of everything and never outmanouvred, in the next codex i read they get baited into an ambush and utterly destroyed by a smaller force of *that army*.
I do want to add though, that the books do describe the pain is causes Russ to have to bring his own brother to justice, and i think the ending of Prospero burns, when everything is seen in yet another light, makes all that even more tragic.
Every Chapter can be summarised into a neat one liner, or you can look closer and see all the "pretty unique snowflakes" that might make the chapter interesting for you (an example that doesn't concern SW would be the Salamanders. They are not all carebears and nice guys, but if you'ld have to summarise them in a short sentence, you'ld say "the carebear chapter"). If not, go look at the next one
For me, the books did put the SW in a new light. It dampened the..eh..way i feel about them abit, but it didn't ruin them for me, it just changed them. Then sons i didn't like before the books for example, now i do.
The Dark Doucheba..Angels for example i didn't like before the books, and i like them even less now that i read through the HH xD But that's just my oppinion ^^d
Worst chapter? Not Ultramarines, not that big hate. Not Blood Angels, they are cool. Not GK, they are cool. Not Adeptus Custodes, they arent marines. Id go with... Imperial Fists. Yellow marines. Come on man. slowed
I notice that everyone who has tried to defend the Space Wolves has had unbelievably awful grammar and spelling abilities. Call me a grammar Nazi, but come on.
Actually the guy is from the UK . . . but all the same ya' know.
Automatically Appended Next Post: I personally hate . . . Space Wolves, only b/c they have no disadvantages, and all the advantages and more of than of space marines.
Did I mention how stupid it is they can easily combine their two most OP units in an army(TWC & Long Fangs).
At least other armies give up something and can only go one way or the other like Black Templars with their Beastly Terminator & Assault Terminator Squads.
Where does it ever say that wolf priests refuse to admit that their powers are drawn from the warp? I haven't read A Thousand Sons but in Prospero Burns it is explained that Rune Priests are psychers with self imposed limits to exploration of their powers, but much of what the Thousand Sons dabbled in constituted sorcery. Sorcery being described as "shortcuts" to powers of the warp without the necessary psionic ability.
Durza wrote:Surely the Hawk Lords should be destroyed for wearing the original colours of one of the Traitor Legions?
So your calling the black templars heretics? anyone who wears the colors of a now heretical group? Are you insane?
That would mean the entire blood angels chapter would be screwed because they wear red.
He said the ORIGINAL colors. The Emperor's children originally had purple armor (World Eaters were white and blue).
On the other hand, in the absence of anyone who has lived for more than 10,000 years (or a still working Nikon Coolpix) no-one would know the original colours of a legion that was excommunicated and struck from the Imperial record (as all of the traitor legions were).
Blood Angels and Grey Knights. I know it's been done a million times, and it sounds like a bandwagon, but....the fluff in the two Codexes was just so poorly written it killed them for me. And I was a huge GK fan before.
Those 2 aside, my least favourite are probably Iron Hands. In the stuff i;ve read, they just seem....really unintelligent.
English Assassin wrote:Yes, but the Rainbow Warriors don't have extra HQs, undercosted units and special snowflake rune magic.
You know just completely ignore the main point of OP,
Any ways I would probaly personally say Flesh tearers of the chapter with gabriel seth, just because they are completey fethed in spirit and sanity to the point of killing good guys, were at least Rainbow marine can think properly(or at least when it dosnt come to colour).
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Squigsquasher wrote:I notice that everyone who has tried to defend the Space Wolves has had unbelievably awful grammar and spelling abilities. Call me a grammar Nazi, but come on.
English Assassin wrote:Yes, but the Rainbow Warriors don't have extra HQs, undercosted units and special snowflake rune magic.
You know just completely ignore the main point of OP, Any ways I would probaly personally say Flesh tearers of the chapter with gabriel seth, just because they are completey fethed in spirit and sanity to the point of killing good guys, were at least Rainbow marine can think properly(or at least when it dosnt come to colour).
Yay! Lets reply to month and a half old posts because we're butt hurt over someone not liking our favorite chapter! Don't worry, your a super special snowflake too.
Pacific wrote:You need to read A Thousand Sons mate...
The Rune Priests may use different forms of ritual and have a different mindset in terms of what they are doing, but the powers they produce are still coming from the same place.
Exactly. Rune Priests basically use the Warp, but in a slightly different way and because it looks slightly different they are convinced it isn't the Warp.
Molten Butter wrote:The Flesh Tearers. Because nothing ruins your day more than seeing the force that came to save your planet gutting you and your family.
Guess you never saw a Angry Marine or Knight of Blood.
From Prospero Burns, for those who continue to post that Rune Priests don't understand their powers.
"Psionics,’ Aun Helwintr echoed, smiling. He used his real voice.
" ‘I had heard that some of the Legions actually had psyker contingents,’ said Hawser.
‘Most of them have,’ replied Helwintr.
‘But the occurrence is so very rare,’ Hawser said. ‘The mutation is a–’
‘The psyker mutation is a priceless asset to our species,’ said Helwintr. ‘Without it, we would be condemned to captivity on Terra. The Great Houses of the Navigators allow us to expand our reach. The astrotelepaths allow us to communicate over the gulfs. But caution must always be exercised. Control."
English Assassin wrote:Yes, but the Rainbow Warriors don't have extra HQs, undercosted units and special snowflake rune magic.
You know just completely ignore the main point of OP,
Any ways I would probaly personally say Flesh tearers of the chapter with gabriel seth, just because they are completey fethed in spirit and sanity to the point of killing good guys, were at least Rainbow marine can think properly(or at least when it dosnt come to colour).
Yay! Lets reply to month and a half old posts because we're butt hurt over someone not liking our favorite chapter! Don't worry, your a super special snowflake too.
I sense some hostility in those words taco......Lets stay civil...
Squigsquasher wrote:Rss Mandarin, you need to read A Thousand Sons. Just read the bit on Nikea. Everything said against the Space Wolves will be utterly vindicated.
Iv'e already read it and then to be fair you would need to also read Prospero Burns too just to get the whole picture but nope I can tell you are happy with the mad hypocritical Space Idiots that the Thousand Sons painted them as.
Prospero Burns honestly did nothing to change my opinion of them. It just confirmed that their Primarch is as much as an ass as the rest of them, and that they have an extremely high opinion of themselves. "Emperor's Executioners"? Really? That's why they needed the full support of the Custodes and Sisters of Silence to barely take on the smallest Legion? What if they were sent against the Ultramarines, or Word Bearers, or any other Legion that outnumbered the drunk werewolves 20x1?
Oakenshield wrote:From Prospero Burns, for those who continue to post that Rune Priests don't understand their powers.
"Psionics,’ Aun Helwintr echoed, smiling. He used his real voice. " ‘I had heard that some of the Legions actually had psyker contingents,’ said Hawser. ‘Most of them have,’ replied Helwintr. ‘But the occurrence is so very rare,’ Hawser said. ‘The mutation is a–’ ‘The psyker mutation is a priceless asset to our species,’ said Helwintr. ‘Without it, we would be condemned to captivity on Terra. The Great Houses of the Navigators allow us to expand our reach. The astrotelepaths allow us to communicate over the gulfs. But caution must always be exercised. Control."
That confirms almost nothing, only that they know what the psyker mutation is.
Oakenshield wrote:From Prospero Burns, for those who continue to post that Rune Priests don't understand their powers.
"Psionics,’ Aun Helwintr echoed, smiling. He used his real voice.
" ‘I had heard that some of the Legions actually had psyker contingents,’ said Hawser.
‘Most of them have,’ replied Helwintr.
‘But the occurrence is so very rare,’ Hawser said. ‘The mutation is a–’
‘The psyker mutation is a priceless asset to our species,’ said Helwintr. ‘Without it, we would be condemned to captivity on Terra. The Great Houses of the Navigators allow us to expand our reach. The astrotelepaths allow us to communicate over the gulfs. But caution must always be exercised. Control."
That confirms almost nothing, only that they know what the psyker mutation is.
It confirms that Space Wolves understand that Rune Priests are in fact psykers. It directly nullifies arguments like this one.
Phiasco II wrote:Space Wolfs. Definitely Space Wolfs. Think about the council of Nakea.
Space Wolf Rune Priest (psyker): PSYKERS ARE BAD!
Mangus: Wait, you are a psyker, right?
Space Wolf Rune Priest: NO! I am a rune priest!. My power comes from the natural changes of Fenris! PSYKERS ARE BAD!
Mangus: No, your power comes from the warp-
Space Wolf Rune Priest: NO NO NO, PSYKERS ARE BAD. DIE, DIE DIE! WHY ISN'T THIS LIGHTNING I'M THROWING AT YOU KILLING YOU? DIE DIE DIE!
Mangus: -sigh- Ima go now
I'm perfectly fine with someone not liking my army because they're undercosted, or because they're space vikings or because their werewolves or whatever reason. However, it's an invalid argument to say that they take a hypocritical attitude towards psykers.
Well, after reading Thousand sons and Prospero burns i really had the feelign they think they are not using the warp.
I mean, Aun Hellwintr might think different because he recognised it (just like there are ultramarines that dont strictly follow the codex, Salamanders who don't care about "small people" etcetc). But the way Wyrdmake despises Ahriman and the way he talks at the council of nikea kinda sounded like he thought hes not using the warp.
There are 2 or 3 references to "using the power of the world forge" iirc. So to me it sounds like they think they don't use the warp.
iDevour wrote:Well, after reading Thousand sons and Prospero burns i really had the feelign they think they are not using the warp.
I mean, Aun Hellwintr might think different because he recognised it (just like there are ultramarines that dont strictly follow the codex, Salamanders who don't care about "small people" etcetc). But the way Wyrdmake despises Ahriman and the way he talks at the council of nikea kinda sounded like he thought hes not using the warp.
There are 2 or 3 references to "using the power of the world forge" iirc. So to me it sounds like they think they don't use the warp.
Since Macneil and Abnett do such a good job of collaborating with each other I feel like the two books are supposed to show two sides of the same coin, each book aggrandizing the chapter it features while making the other seem at fault.
As for the power of the world forge part that must only be in A Thousand Sons. One of my qualms with Prospero Burns is that the pesudo-viking talk with all the red snow, cut threads and etc. The Wolves still refer to space as upland even though they fully understand it is not the heaven they believed in during their former lives. The world forge thing could be another such remnant. I admit I really need to read A Thousand Sons to understand Macniel's portrayal.
Another complaint is that Abnett portrays them as not allowing written word. Oral tradition is an effective way of maintaining a history and a society but not when you need to educate your men on such technically complex ideas as running giant space ships or maintaining plasma weapons.
Do I need to bust out the quote where Leman Russ himself is frothing at the mouth, claiming that runepriests draw their power from the "cycle of life and death of Fenris" or whatever such nonsense, rather than channeling the Warp? Or should we look to the Index Astartes again?
Nah, that would take too much effort when it's been done at least 50 times before and can be found in any number of threads about the Space Wolves/Nikea. So I'm just going to say, Oakenshield, you are 100% wrong.
Omegus wrote:Do I need to bust out the quote where Leman Russ himself is frothing at the mouth, claiming that runepriests draw their power from the "cycle of life and death of Fenris" or whatever such nonsense, rather than channeling the Warp? Or should we look to the Index Astartes again?
Nah, that would take too much effort when it's been done at least 50 times before and can be found in any number of threads about the Space Wolves/Nikea. So I'm just going to say, Oakenshield, you are 100% wrong.
Its been said before many times but you know the same ilk come out every now and then parroting the same wrong argument ad nauseum. We could take a look at the codex too they even state they don't really know how to define what Rune Priests do since it isn't touching the warp like the standard Librarian.
Omegus wrote:Do I need to bust out the quote where Leman Russ himself is frothing at the mouth, claiming that runepriests draw their power from the "cycle of life and death of Fenris" or whatever such nonsense, rather than channeling the Warp? Or should we look to the Index Astartes again?
Nah, that would take too much effort when it's been done at least 50 times before and can be found in any number of threads about the Space Wolves/Nikea. So I'm just going to say, Oakenshield, you are 100% wrong.
Its been said before many times but you know the same ilk come out every now and then parroting the same wrong argument ad nauseum. We could take a look at the codex too they even state they don't really know how to define what Rune Priests do since it isn't touching the warp like the standard Librarian.
And? They still persecuted the Thousand Sons for their use of psychic powers despite using the warp themselves. A Rune Priest, and actual Librarian of the Space Wolves, spoke out against psychic powers and he used them himself. Of course, this isn't the only reason they're massive hypocrites. Wulfen, anyone? They were perfectly fine using their own mutated individuals against the Thousand Sons, a Legion they hated because they had their own defect.
Omegus wrote:Do I need to bust out the quote where Leman Russ himself is frothing at the mouth, claiming that runepriests draw their power from the "cycle of life and death of Fenris" or whatever such nonsense, rather than channeling the Warp? Or should we look to the Index Astartes again?
Nah, that would take too much effort when it's been done at least 50 times before and can be found in any number of threads about the Space Wolves/Nikea. So I'm just going to say, Oakenshield, you are 100% wrong.
Its been said before many times but you know the same ilk come out every now and then parroting the same wrong argument ad nauseum. We could take a look at the codex too they even state they don't really know how to define what Rune Priests do since it isn't touching the warp like the standard Librarian.
And? They still persecuted the Thousand Sons for their use of psychic powers despite using the warp themselves. A Rune Priest, and actual Librarian of the Space Wolves, spoke out against psychic powers and he used them himself. Of course, this isn't the only reason they're massive hypocrites. Wulfen, anyone? They were perfectly fine using their own mutated individuals against the Thousand Sons, a Legion they hated because they had their own defect.
You're still wrong about the rune priests using the warp its even more imperative that you notice how the Rune Priests weren't shut down after the Council of Nikaea? They are not standard librarians under Magnus who use sorcery and delve into the warp they are mystical shamans that follow a tradition that empowers them through the cycle of life and death on Fenris.
The Thousand sons through their primarch made a pact with chaos to get over their defect but in the end did not. Wulfen are a defect that the Space Wolves carry with them and have not tried to excise in any way. Hell almost the entire 13th company is made up of people who have the Mark of the Wulfen. In the end keeping their defect worked out for them since its more of a defense mechanism against chaos while the Thousand sons got pushed into chaos from the jump because of their defect. I see no hypocritical behavior here
Omegus wrote:Do I need to bust out the quote where Leman Russ himself is frothing at the mouth, claiming that runepriests draw their power from the "cycle of life and death of Fenris" or whatever such nonsense, rather than channeling the Warp? Or should we look to the Index Astartes again?
Nah, that would take too much effort when it's been done at least 50 times before and can be found in any number of threads about the Space Wolves/Nikea. So I'm just going to say, Oakenshield, you are 100% wrong.
Its been said before many times but you know the same ilk come out every now and then parroting the same wrong argument ad nauseum. We could take a look at the codex too they even state they don't really know how to define what Rune Priests do since it isn't touching the warp like the standard Librarian.
And? They still persecuted the Thousand Sons for their use of psychic powers despite using the warp themselves. A Rune Priest, and actual Librarian of the Space Wolves, spoke out against psychic powers and he used them himself. Of course, this isn't the only reason they're massive hypocrites. Wulfen, anyone? They were perfectly fine using their own mutated individuals against the Thousand Sons, a Legion they hated because they had their own defect.
You're still wrong about the rune priests using the warp its even more imperative that you notice how the Rune Priests weren't shut down after the Council of Nikaea? They are not standard librarians under Magnus who use sorcery and delve into the warp they are mystical shamans that follow a tradition that empowers them through the cycle of life and death on Fenris.
No, I'm not. Have you read A Thousand Sons? Yeah, Ahriman puts into perspective when he has a conversation with a Space Wolf Rune Priest. They both use the Warp. The Thousand Sons were in the wrong, using sorcery, but the Space Wolves did, and still do, use similar ritual processes based on the primitive pagan and norse-esque beliefs of the people of Fenris, from which they all originate. Essentially, they hold religious beliefs that are heretical in the Imperium, and still use the Warp to fuel their rituals. They aren't that far from the Thousand Sons.
The Thousand sons through their primarch made a pact with chaos to get over their defect but in the end did not. Wulfen are a defect that the Space Wolves carry with them and have not tried to excise in any way. Hell almost the entire 13th company is made up of people who have the Mark of the Wulfen. In the end keeping their defect worked out for them since its more of a defense mechanism against chaos while the Thousand sons got pushed into chaos from the jump because of their defect. I see no hypocritical behavior here
Then you're in denial. Magnus, thanks to his arrogance, made pacts independently of the Thousand Sons and outside of his son's knowledge, to cure their genetic defect. It worked, for a time, but Tzeentch is a fickle creature to deal with, and the deal ended. The Space Wolves saw a Thousand Sons mutated, and that deserves punishment. It's something along the lines of "You have a fault in your geneseed that causes some to turn into ravaging monsters! You deserve punishment! I know, we'll use our own slavering mutant hulks (that are absolutely ok for us to have) to attack you!" Hypocrisy.
You are sounding more and more like Thousand Sons apologist .
Ahriman doesn't put anything in perspective all he offers up is his wrong biased perspective on something that is clearly apart from what he does. His opinion isn't validated by anything in A thousand sons or any previous fluff or even in their codex either so all this amounts to is you fussing about a what if scenario.
You keep saying Rune Priests use Sorcery, but their mystical practices certainly don't involve the sacrifice of psycher's to empower their own or even go so far as to contact deamons.
Also gene seed flaw argument is more along the lines "you have a flaw in your gene-seed that is turning you to chaos you are a evil, I'm going to attack you now with our own chaos resistant gene flawed Wulfen".
Russ Mandarin wrote:You are sounding more and more like Thousand Sons apologist .
Ahriman doesn't put anything in perspective all he offers up is his wrong biased perspective on something that is clearly apart from what he does. His opinion isn't validated by anything in A thousand sons or any previous fluff or even in their codex either so all this amounts to is you fussing about a what if scenario.
Ahriman isn't the only character that puts it into perspective. Magnus does, with a little help from Russ. There's nothing to contradict what happens in the book. To be an apologist I would have had to make excuses, no excuses were given, so you're wrong.
You keep saying Rune Priests use Sorcery, but their mystical practices certainly don't involve the sacrifice of psycher's to empower their own or even go so far as to contact deamons.
I don't "keep saying" that. It's the first time I've ever said it, so you're trying too hard to act smart. I never said it involves any of those practices, I said the Thousand Sons stepped over the line, but that the Space Wolves' use of ritual wasn't that different, not that they were the same.
Also gene seed flaw argument is more along the lines "you have a flaw in your gene-seed that is turning you to chaos you are a evil, I'm going to attack you now with our own chaos resistant gene flawed Wulfen".
Take all this crap about 'Chaos' out. Neither side had any knowledge of Chaos or how it could affect the Astartes. So it's really "you have a flaw in your gene-seed, that's bad. I'm going to attack you with our gene flawed Wulfen, but that's ok".
Grey Knights. An army which exists solely to be better than everyone else at everything. If they told me some thirteen year-old came up with them, they'd make more sense. They'd win a poetry competition if they entered one.
Space Wolves. Murder-make threadcut wyrd murder-make hellwinter threadcut!
Russ Mandarin wrote: Wulfen are a defect that the Space Wolves carry with them and have not tried to excise in any way. Hell almost the entire 13th company is made up of people who have the Mark of the Wulfen. In the end keeping their defect worked out for them since its more of a defense mechanism against chaos while the Thousand sons got pushed into chaos from the jump because of their defect. I see no hypocritical behavior here
It's not just that. If the SW got rid of the defect, they would also lose the advantages, therefore just becoming grey Ultramarines.
Seaward wrote:Grey Knights. An army which exists solely to be better than everyone else at everything. If they told me some thirteen year-old came up with them, they'd make more sense. They'd win a poetry competition if they entered one.
Space Wolves. Murder-make threadcut wyrd murder-make hellwinter threadcut!
I dont play them, so dont judge me on that.
But they are not overpowered evil forces are saying they are, while they arent.
Now, back to the Warp, daemon scum!
Russ Mandarin wrote:You keep saying Rune Priests use Sorcery, but their mystical practices certainly don't involve the sacrifice of psycher's to empower their own or even go so far as to contact deamons.
Sacrificing psykers to empower something is exactly what the Astronomicon and the Golden Throne do.
I think you should go have a talk with a local member of the Ecclesiarchy so he can explain the error of your ways. *cough*Heretic!*cough*
Trying to argue otherwise is akin to saying the sun is green and the weather in Houston is mild and temperate. You can do it, just don't be surprised when people look at you like a crazy person.
The Wolves use various shamanist rituals and practices that allow them to channel the Warp in specific ways. Where their resistance to the corrupting effects of the Warp comes from is unclear, whether it part of the Canix Helix, their penchant for adorning themselves with warding signs and talismans, or even just the regimented and structured way they use their powers (much like GK, for example).
The latter part I think is the big difference that separates the Rune Priest tradition and the Librarius department as imagined by Magnus. The Librarius was all about exploration and innovation, ever pushing humanity's psychic acumen forward, with no gates bared or lines uncrossed. The Rune Priests, on the other hand, utilize the same exact rituals and ceremonies to summon the exact same powers as they have for thousands of years. Any deviation from this norm is seen as "evil", "maleficarum", or "Sky Magic", and is responded to with fear and violence (see Prospero Burns where the various tribes turn on another and slaughter every man, woman, and child on suspicion of "maleficarum"). Prospero Burns also shows us that the Wolves' Astartes program doesn't do much to educate or dispel these superstitions, as they hold much the same beliefs even after becoming Space Marines and learning of the Imperium.
So in light of this, it's not surprising the Space Wolves were so hostile towards the Thousand Sons. Why else would they attack the Sons just because the latter didn't want to burn down a library (and this was long before Nikea or any orders from the Emperor or Horus)? Why else would they automatically assume Hauser was Magnus' spy, and even that was revealed to not be the case, still act as if they were right all along?
I don't know if it is so much hypocrisy (although there is plenty of willful ignorance going around), as just plain ol'-fashioned bigotry. "They are different than us, therefore we should kill them."
Seaward wrote:Grey Knights. An army which exists solely to be better than everyone else at everything. If they told me some thirteen year-old came up with them, they'd make more sense. They'd win a poetry competition if they entered one.
Grey Knights have a reason for being better than everyone else, they don't just try to be better, their made better so they can defend the imperium from daemons/chaos in general...
It's also speculated they came from the emperors geneseed, which is why their better.
So I still don't know why people hate the Knights...but oh well
What always cracks me up is that the GK only have a very low number of "those guys that guard this room over there" (sorry i really don't know what they are called in english :( ).
So after the last game, they have a problem (because i got shot to pieces from long distance xD). Wonder how they fill their ranks so fast all the time :O xD
Purifiers? I don't know how they fill their ranks so quickly either. Something tells me Matt Ward has no idea how long it would take to process one million initiates, let alone find one supposedly as rare as a purifier. Perhaps the GKs just drop them all into a whole in one go and let them fight it out.
IMHO the worst Chapter is the Soul Drinkers. Destroying the Imperium one planet at a time - FOR THE EMPEROR!
(I realize I am probably exaggerating that, but I can't help it given how the novels are written, esp in contrast to so much of Ben Counter's other work.)
Whilst I can appreciate how easily a conversation can, does and should wind in odd and perhaps unanticipated ways, it would be best if we leave the arguments over the wolves/1k sons and psychic what nots out of this thread.
Feel free to start a new one over that though, throw in a link to here so people can read up and we're good.
Well I'm a huge fan of the Space Vikings and Space Romans... but I'm a history guy (by trade) so I like the fluff elements of the SW and UM.
To me its the Flesh Tearers and Blood Drinkers that take the cake. The BA a little too vampiric for me, but the FT and BD are just wack jobs and if the timeline ever marches forward, its just a matter of time before a SW, Sally, Smurf, IF, or some other "noble" Chapter sees these guys as one whisper short of Khorne and opens up on them
Trying to argue otherwise is akin to saying the sun is green and the weather in Houston is mild and temperate. You can do it, just don't be surprised when people look at you like a crazy person.
The Wolves use various shamanist rituals and practices that allow them to channel the Warp in specific ways. Where their resistance to the corrupting effects of the Warp comes from is unclear, whether it part of the Canix Helix, their penchant for adorning themselves with warding signs and talismans, or even just the regimented and structured way they use their powers (much like GK, for example).
The latter part I think is the big difference that separates the Rune Priest tradition and the Librarius department as imagined by Magnus. The Librarius was all about exploration and innovation, ever pushing humanity's psychic acumen forward, with no gates bared or lines uncrossed. The Rune Priests, on the other hand, utilize the same exact rituals and ceremonies to summon the exact same powers as they have for thousands of years. Any deviation from this norm is seen as "evil", "maleficarum", or "Sky Magic", and is responded to with fear and violence (see Prospero Burns where the various tribes turn on another and slaughter every man, woman, and child on suspicion of "maleficarum"). Prospero Burns also shows us that the Wolves' Astartes program doesn't do much to educate or dispel these superstitions, as they hold much the same beliefs even after becoming Space Marines and learning of the Imperium.
So in light of this, it's not surprising the Space Wolves were so hostile towards the Thousand Sons. Why else would they attack the Sons just because the latter didn't want to burn down a library (and this was long before Nikea or any orders from the Emperor or Horus)? Why else would they automatically assume Hauser was Magnus' spy, and even that was revealed to not be the case, still act as if they were right all along?
I don't know if it is so much hypocrisy (although there is plenty of willful ignorance going around), as just plain ol'-fashioned bigotry. "They are different than us, therefore we should kill them."
Surely there's a simple solution here. If Rune Priests can suffer Perils of the Warp, they must be channeling the powers of the Warp in order to be attacked by it. If they don't then they probably aren't using warp-based powers. I don't know if they can take Perils though...
I don't really like to use rules to resolve fluff disputes, but since you mentioned it, Rune Priests are subject to Perils and are no less susceptible to them than any other psyker.
Anyway, this topic has been done to death and I'm stepping out. There is an endless stream of bright-eyed and bushy-tailed youngsters fighting tooth and nail to hold on to their Mary Sue Werewolves in Space, and I've grown weary of crushing their misconceptions time and time again.
are the most over-rated Chapter in 
Inquisition 
They are far from Mary Sues. They swear, drink, smoke and do other violent things. I would be ok if you said they are the Manowar of Warhammer 
