Hi All

I suppose people are a little tired of finecast bashing, but I am tired of driving 25 minutes to my local GW store, to pay a large amount (for what you get) for a 'fine'cack model then only to unbox the thing and have to go back! As I stated on a previous thread, EVERY SINGLE 'fine'cack model I have bought since the release of this crap use of resin, I have had to return and try to change (including making the model as best as possible by using several packs of the same model) EVERY SINGLE one!!!!

I really hate 'fine'cack!!!!

I'll get off the now and apologise for bringing this up yet again, but I am fed up with it! Although I can't see from pictures but I think that Astrorath the Grim should have eyes, if not then the wings are the problem!
Cheers

Andy

I think it is really hit and miss.

They sent me out a finecast replacement for a slightly miscast lillith metal version I reported, and it looks like something out of a nightmare.

Then again some of them are turning out absolutely fine and with lovely detail :( All down to luck.

I quite like Finecast. I've never gotten a bad cast and I've always hated metal models.

Both Finecast models I've bought (Rakarth and a Haemonculus) have been excellent.

Nothing a little greenstuff can't fix, suck it up man!

Iranna.

Looks like that Astorath has just had a C-section. Look at the gaping hold above his crotch.

Iranna wrote:Nothing a little greenstuff can't fix, suck it up man!

Iranna.

I hope you use green stuff on yourself and close your mouth shut, nothing is more annoying then spending hard earned cash on a 28mm plastic figure then find out you need to mend it and fix it because its poor quality.

the issue is not that you cant fix it the issue is that you shouldn't have to fix if when you spend £12.50 on Astorath

just think about it I can buy a pc mouse for less then £10 that has more tech and plastic then then any 28mm figure you can name.

I'm undecided.

I've bought 6 finecast models to date and have yet to have a problem. I've gotten miscast metal figs in the past as well....I don't really see a difference here.

However, I'll change my tune once one of my models is exposed accidentally to a hot atmosphere and totally warps...

Iranna wrote:Nothing a little greenstuff can't fix, suck it up man!

Iranna.

I am more than able to deal with issues but as the last poster said and I completely agree, I do not expect to mend models that I pay good cash for! How about getting a car where the steering wheel doesn't turn left?! Would you 'suck it up' and drive the thing? Or maybe not such a dangerous example could be a dvd player where the drawer doesn't come out the whole way, you wouldn't take it back then? I come from 2nd ed days and prefer metal because the mass of the model being nice, the fact that things do not have elasticity and therefore anything bent can be bent back and the fact that converting with metal did show REAL skill.

How about as stated, 'shutting your mouth' and not saying such rubbish. As I said EVERY SINGLE finecast model I have bought has been crap!

Grimtuff wrote:Looks like that Astorath has just had a C-section. Look at the gaping hold above his crotch.

Do you know I didn't notice that one and I have a good eye for detail!!!! Thanks for pointing that one out!

yevix wrote:

Iranna wrote:Nothing a little greenstuff can't fix, suck it up man!

Iranna.

I hope you use green stuff on yourself and close your mouth shut, nothing is more annoying then spending hard earned cash on a 28mm plastic figure then find out you need to mend it and fix it because its poor quality.

the issue is not that you cant fix it the issue is that you shouldn't have to fix if when you spend £12.50 on Astorath

just think about it I can buy a pc mouse for less then £10 that has more tech and plastic then then any 28mm figure you can name.

Thanks for this reply my friend, my sentiments EXACTLY!

Why didn't you check it before you left the store?

DarknessEternal wrote:Why didn't you check it before you left the store?

This was my thought...
GW are usually good with this kind of stuff, if you have a miscast you can return it and get a non-miscast.

DarknessEternal wrote:Why didn't you check it before you left the store?

He shouldn't have too - you pay good money you better get good quality out of it -

remember its 28mm of plastic - how hard is it to make them quality worthy-

plus why don't you ask this "why didn't GW check it before putting it in stock" surely if its so easy to check them out in store then they can check it out before they put it into the stores

Personally and I know people wont agree with me, but I loved the metal ones - they had some weight too it they felt like they could last - I still gota few old school tau stealth suits (the metal ones)

Astorath doesn't have eyes. I have the metal mini.

AustonT wrote:Astorath doesn't have eyes. I have the metal mini.

Nothing a little greenstuff can't fix, suck it up man!

Iranna.

yevix wrote:

DarknessEternal wrote:Why didn't you check it before you left the store?

He shouldn't have too - you pay good money you better get good quality out of it -

remember its 28mm of plastic - how hard is it to make them quality worthy-

plus why don't you ask this "why didn't GW check it before putting it in stock" surely if its so easy to check them out in store then they can check it out before they put it into the stores

Personally and I know people wont agree with me, but I loved the metal ones - they had some weight too it they felt like they could last - I still gota few old school tau stealth suits (the metal ones)

Once again, I whole heartedly agree with you! Maybe I should have checked but with all the hype we had to endure, not counting the constant brain washed diatribe given by the indoctrinated GW staff on the wonders of 'fine'cast I really shouldn't have to - along with everyone shouldn't have to! I have conducted tests on both metal and 'fine'cast models (the same one) for detailing and found no difference whatsoever! The main differences are weight, back forming and the cost!!!! Hence the reason for the massive purchases I did on the GW website for metal models!


Automatically Appended Next Post:

AustonT wrote:Astorath doesn't have eyes. I have the metal mini.

Ok thanks for clearing that one up, as I said I couldn't see from pictures on GW website!

Wulfen Andy wrote:

yevix wrote:

DarknessEternal wrote:Why didn't you check it before you left the store?

He shouldn't have too - you pay good money you better get good quality out of it -

remember its 28mm of plastic - how hard is it to make them quality worthy-

plus why don't you ask this "why didn't GW check it before putting it in stock" surely if its so easy to check them out in store then they can check it out before they put it into the stores

Personally and I know people wont agree with me, but I loved the metal ones - they had some weight too it they felt like they could last - I still gota few old school tau stealth suits (the metal ones)

Once again, I whole heartedly agree with you! Maybe I should have checked but with all the hype we had to endure, not counting the constant brain washed diatribe given by the indoctrinated GW staff on the wonders of 'fine'cast I really shouldn't have to - along with everyone shouldn't have to! I have conducted tests on both metal and 'fine'cast models (the same one) for detailing and found no difference whatsoever! The main differences are weight, back forming and the cost!!!! Hence the reason for the massive purchases I did on the GW website for metal models!

Its reaching a point with me that I am going to start making my own GW models (I have my own injection molder at home - I make children's whistles - extra money is always good) just gonna pay someone to make a copy of all the models I want and make my own (I got an amazing molder maker back home, he is 75 years old and makes best copy molds I have ever seen)

Funny I myself bought a finecast Astorath and he was perfect.

yevix wrote:

Wulfen Andy wrote:

yevix wrote:

DarknessEternal wrote:Why didn't you check it before you left the store?

He shouldn't have too - you pay good money you better get good quality out of it -

remember its 28mm of plastic - how hard is it to make them quality worthy-

plus why don't you ask this "why didn't GW check it before putting it in stock" surely if its so easy to check them out in store then they can check it out before they put it into the stores

Personally and I know people wont agree with me, but I loved the metal ones - they had some weight too it they felt like they could last - I still gota few old school tau stealth suits (the metal ones)

Once again, I whole heartedly agree with you! Maybe I should have checked but with all the hype we had to endure, not counting the constant brain washed diatribe given by the indoctrinated GW staff on the wonders of 'fine'cast I really shouldn't have to - along with everyone shouldn't have to! I have conducted tests on both metal and 'fine'cast models (the same one) for detailing and found no difference whatsoever! The main differences are weight, back forming and the cost!!!! Hence the reason for the massive purchases I did on the GW website for metal models!

Its reaching a point with me that I am going to start making my own GW models (I have my own injection molder at home - I make children's whistles - extra money is always good) just gonna pay someone to make a copy of all the models I want and make my own (I got an amazing molder maker back home, he is 75 years old and makes best copy molds I have ever seen)

Wow sounds good! Just hope you don't get some idiot trying to get you into trouble as they did to Les Burley with his own products!

Nicholas wrote:Funny I myself bought a finecast Astorath and he was perfect.

Well ya boo sucks!!!! Lol I guess I must have seriously bad luck concerning 'fine'cack! In fact I am well known in my local GW store for returning the damn things! Not being picky just finding loads of probs!

I've bought 4 Finecast models, each had minor things but nothing terrible. Thankfully the Wyvern I bought was a good cast.

No miscasts on my end, 12 figs later.

As far as I know, they fixed a lot of the problems with the casting process; all my fine cast minis were no worse than my pewter, instead they're lighter, easier to glue, much tougher, and the paint won't chip as easily (if at all). Hell, they have less flash than pewter, or rather, more obvious flash. Seriously, those little "hairs" from the pewter air vents used to piss me off.

I think finecast is great, and you're disappointment is a bit silly; it's possible your store has old stock, or you're very unlucky. Even then, nothing's perfect, otherwise warranty wouldn't exist.

Then again, it could be your ridiculous standards. Translucence is normal in thin plastic/resin, and won't be noticeable once painted. Asograth doesn't have eyes (at least last I checked in the book), and that hole above his crotch was so small, you didn't notice until someone else pointed it out.

This notion of "not needing to fix it" stems from the same social grox crap of "entitlement." Both you and yevix really need to grow up, the way you two are posting makes you look bad.

As far as I know, they fixed a lot of the problems with the casting process; all my fine cast minis were no worse than my pewter, instead they're lighter, easier to glue, much tougher, and the paint won't chip as easily (if at all). Hell, they have less flash than pewter, or rather, more obvious flash. Seriously, those little "hairs" from the pewter air vents used to piss me off.

no one is denying the good points of finecast the problem is for the money WE pay for them i.e over £10 for a 28mm plastic toy - heck it would be cheaper for me too collect money instead and I will make a profit in the future selling it to collectors and still LOTS of people get problems with them.

I think finecast is great, and you're disappointment is a bit silly; it's possible your store has old stock, or you're very unlucky. Even then, nothing's perfect, otherwise warranty wouldn't exist.

really old stock (and why are they selling old stock when they know it may contain errors at my local grocery store if they have old stock they slash the price tag in half)or very unlucky thats the best you have - oh I get hit by a drunk driver, its not the drivers fault I am simply unlucky - GREAT - again, would it have been hard for GW too quality check all their products before release - but thats not the issue for you that a company is milking you for buying toys and expects you to repair and fix the problems. take this for example, my nearest GW store is miles away I gotta spend over £4 pounds to travel there - will GW give me back my travel costs for having to repair THEIR error

the fact that multiple people are getting same problems ALL over the world seems to suggest its a bigger issue then expected.

Then again, it could be your ridiculous standards. Translucence is normal in thin plastic/resin, and won't be noticeable once painted. Asograth doesn't have eyes (at least last I checked in the book), and that hole above his crotch was so small, you didn't notice until someone else pointed it out.

are you blind - look at the price tag - its not ridiculous standards for crying out loud I can buy a mobile phone for £10 but apparently when a 28mm toy is bad quality I simply have high standards....maybe I simply think the price is overkill. People complain for less -

This notion of "not needing to fix it" stems from the same social grox crap of "entitlement." Both you and yevix really need to grow up, the way you two are posting makes you look bad.

oh I see entitlement like when I pay huge amounts of money for plastic apparently I am expected to do all the major repair work on it - again its the price tag - if the TOY costs i don't know £3 I would be less likely to complain about the poor quality but it doesn't does it....it costs more then mobile phones, it cost more then other plastic toys (That are fully painted, have movable parts and great quality themselves) I use to find happy meal toys with better quality then some fine cast stuff I have seen and I got a bloody meal out of it and it cost me less then a £10

You need to grow up and realize that sometimes companies are simply milking you for your money.

I have around 20 finecast models now and I only had 1 mist cast. Which GW promptly sent me a replacement for.

If they were milking me for money, why would they replace defective product for free?

You need to grow up if you can't see how ridiculous you are being. Have you contacted GW yet? I'm guessing you have not.

Lightcavalier wrote:I have around 20 finecast models now and I only had 1 mist cast. Which GW promptly sent me a replacement for.

If they were milking me for money, why would they replace defective product for free?

Your realize that they took the miniature you gave and more then likely melted it down and reused it in other miniatures and I think its a given that ANY company will replace a product if its faulty, you just pointed out the basics of selling products - they are milking you for money because apparently it cost the same to make Astoroth the grimm as it is to make a mobile phone when clearly a mobile phone is a lot harder to make from the software to the battery to the plastic that encases it all but sure you think its fair to pay over £10 for plastic toy.

nectarprime wrote:You need to grow up if you can't see how ridiculous you are being. Have you contacted GW yet? I'm guessing you have not.

Just to point out I haven't had problems with finecast but that doesn't excuse how badly GW are making them when lots of people are having problems with them and again I shouldn't have to call them when I pay so much money for it.

How is it being ridiculous we pay good money for a fricking plastic toy and they still come out with errors that force others to travel far and wide to fix it- what about the time they waste having to travel to the store or the money it costs them to call them every time there is a problem, you think they have an 0800 number (in UK 0800 numbers are free). Have you heard the notion time is money - well it is and when time is wasted so is money.

Look at a previous post, if you bought a car with a faulty car tire you would SUE the car manufacturer for selling you that car but simply because GW is a 'toy' making company we should simply ignore it and just replace it like nothing happened.

Look I love Warhammer and 40k and I have been a fan of it since 1997 it even helped me learn English but that doesn't excuse the cost of the products and the quality they release you want me to complain less, make the products cheaper.

I cant believe you people think its fair to pay £12 for 28mm of plastic

also why hasn't anyone asked 1 simple question, if its so easy to check the product before buying it why don't they do it before they send it out to the shops surely a simple quality check is easy - and again with the prices they set you sorta expect that -

yevix wrote:if the TOY costs i don't know £3 I would be less likely to complain about the poor quality but it doesn't does it....it costs more then mobile phones

More than a phone.....
I put up with aus prices, and the small single chars like astoroth are not as pricy as a phone.

if you bought a car with a faulty car tire you would SUE the car manufacturer for selling you that car

a) I would check the car before i bought it
b) Just get a new tyre and save a tonne of money on court fees

I fail to see any reason to complain about this, ring up and get a new one shipped to your door, done. No need to waste your precious 3 quid on fuel to get there either. They've fixed a lot of the problems that were present in the first wave of product, out of the 4 that i have, they're all fine, i do hate how brittle they are however. All i'm seeing out of your arguement is "i shouldn't have to call up to have my model replaced for free" now you read that back to yourself and ask these questions.

How long did it take to make this thread? How long would it have taken to ring customer support?

Here are some simple steps to resolve your problem:
1) Stop whining on the internet
2) Call GW customer support
3) Explain your miscast
4) Continue living life until it arrives
5) Walk to your door and collect the replacement
Bonus step
6) If this is also miscast see step 2-5, if you make another thread about it see step 1-5

yevix wrote:if the TOY costs i don't know £3 I would be less likely to complain about the poor quality but it doesn't does it....it costs more then mobile phones

More than a phone.....
I put up with aus prices, and the small single chars like astoroth are not as pricy as a phone.

http://www.coopelectricalshop.co.uk/products/ProductDetail.asp?ProductCode=SAM-MOB-E1170-BK&utm_source=google&utm_medium=basefeed

http://www.google.com/products/catalog?client=ubuntu&channel=fs&q=%C2%A310+mobile+phone&oe=utf-8&gl=uk&um=1&ie=UTF-8&tbm=shop&cid=3637347866242981973&sa=X&ei=2yFoTtb3MsOw8QPA1vnGCw&ved=0CGgQ8wIwAQ

go wild there are plenty more, heck go to private mobile sellers and look at their deals.

if you bought a car with a faulty car tire you would SUE the car manufacturer for selling you that car

a) I would check the car before i bought it
b) Just get a new tyre and save a tonne of money on court fees

I fail to see any reason to complain about this, ring up and get a new one shipped to your door, done. No need to waste your precious 3 quid on fuel to get there either. They've fixed a lot of the problems that were present in the first wave of product, out of the 4 that i have, they're all fine, i do hate how brittle they are however. All i'm seeing out of your arguement is "i shouldn't have to call up to have my model replaced for free" now you read that back to yourself and ask these questions.

How long did it take to make this thread? How long would it have taken to ring customer support?

Here are some simple steps to resolve your problem:
1) Stop whining on the internet
2) Call GW customer support
3) Explain your miscast
4) Continue living life until it arrives
5) Walk to your door and collect the replacement
Bonus step
6) If this is also miscast see step 2-5, if you make another thread about it see step 1-5

I have never had a finecast problem and I buy them like they are going out of style! Shock attack guns, kustom force fields, Ghazzy, Yarrick, Inquisitor Karamazov. All of these have had no problems and nobody I know has had any real problems other than the occasional mould line.

I have had problems with the plastic kits, but I called GW up, explained my situation, and they sent me a replacement free of charge.

I pose a couple questions to you:

1)If you know there are so many problems, why do you not check it in the store?
2)Why do you keep buying them if it isn't worth it?

I test drive my cars before I buy them so that I know what I am getting. If you buy a car without test driving it, you deserve its surprises. Same goes for models; if you take it home before making sure it is alright, you deserve to have it be miscast.

-cgmckenzie

a picture of the fault and a scan of proof of purchase.

As to the mobile phone bit....while i do agree that we pay way to much for our toys...the market comparison for mobile phones vs gw products is ridiculous.

There are likely more than a billion cell phone users world wide
There are likely less than 100,000 people who play 40k work wide

See where this is going?

Wowser, who would honestly buy a phone for under 10 quid though I stand corrected none the less

As for replacements, i've heard of that happening on forums and such(see the second post in this thread*), then again it is the internet. Best bet is to ring and ask though, just don't mention your within driving distance of a store

Worst case scenario, is the OP has to drive 25mins(the horror) to GW and get a new one, probably checking it this time around

IMO if the OP has had every single finecast model he bought in terrible condition, then he really should be checking the next ones he gets feverously anyways, Fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, shame on me. I will concede and say he really shouldn't have to but i don't think it's as epic an ordeal as it seems in this forum, especially as it could have been avoided by the OP.

*honestly though i am unsure if it was sent back, doesn't seem like it though

Also just for the record i know your not the OP, those questions were for the OP.

Whine: To complain or protest in a childish fashion.
I fail to see how or where i have 'whined' about anything in this thread

another fun fact here

Games Workshop is a luxury manufacturer
Their product is essentially frivolous (as much as we love it)
, as such they can charge as much as we are willing to pay for it. That amount can be fairly high because of the fact that no one views this as a necessity (this does not mean that they should or that I endorse it, but it is within their right as a business) As it stands with my 1 project rule, they are nowhere near breaking my budget.

yevix wrote:

DarknessEternal wrote:Why didn't you check it before you left the store?

He shouldn't have too - you pay good money you better get good quality out of it -

The magical, dreamland in which you live sounds delightful.

In the real world, mistakes happen in billion dollar projects that also cost human lives. Quality control on your plastic army man whose worst consequence is they have to make you a new plastic army man certainly has lower need.

yevix wrote:

AustonT wrote:Astorath doesn't have eyes. I have the metal mini.

Nothing a little greenstuff can't fix, suck it up man!

Iranna.

Asinine.
I was stating a fact. No, greenstuff will not fix the empty sockets in Astro's head because painting eyes on 28mm models is daft.

Iranna wrote:Nothing a little greenstuff can't fix, suck it up man!

Your attitude is laughable.

Ok yes you can get a mobile phone for £10 but thats like buying a bag of green plastic army men instead of imperial guard.
And you don't need to send the model back to GW if you phone up saying it's faulty, hell you don't even need to send a picture of it but it's courtesy.

I'm sure we would love to live in this magical pixie land where we don't have to do this or that but we don't, one of the main things you don't have to do is pay GW's prices for GW minis there are many websites out there which sell them cheaper.

Oh and if I bought a car and it turned out it couldn't turn left, I would see it as a challenge

With regards to checking the model before hand, I honestly believe that is the best practice. However, some of the models come in boxes like the normal multi-part plastic ones. You cant really check those ones without opening it up.

Of course, I really don't see the problem. The model itself looks fine to my extremely inexperienced eyes, with what seems like a generous returns policy from GW I really don't see what all the fuss is about.

DarknessEternal wrote:

yevix wrote:

DarknessEternal wrote:Why didn't you check it before you left the store?

He shouldn't have too - you pay good money you better get good quality out of it -

The magical, dreamland in which you live sounds delightful.

In the real world, mistakes happen in billion dollar projects that also cost human lives. Quality control on your plastic army man whose worst consequence is they have to make you a new plastic army man certainly has lower need.

I think its quite reasonable to expect the quality they claim, with no need to do the quality control yourself.

I don't really understand your argument though. If he is spending his money on a product, he should expect the product is as advertised. It is not his fault if GW tried to shaft him on a sub par product.

MikZor wrote:Wowser, who would honestly buy a phone for under 10 quid though I stand corrected none the less

Also just for the record i know your not the OP, those questions were for the OP.

Whine: To complain or protest in a childish fashion.
I fail to see how or where i have 'whined' about anything in this thread

firstly don't quote ME and expect me to answer those silly questions - the fact that you quoted me suggest you were writing that to me - you should have stated it was for OP -

also you assume we whined because you think we are acting childish like I assume you are acting childish - just because you say something my friend doesn't make it so.

anyways I am tired, I feel sorry for you when you think that Paying premium prices doesn't equal Premium service - its like buying first class seat on the plane only to find no first class seats whatsoever available when you go an sit down.

I am done - off to bake a pie you can live in your lala land of fairness


Automatically Appended Next Post:

DarknessEternal wrote:

yevix wrote:

DarknessEternal wrote:Why didn't you check it before you left the store?

He shouldn't have too - you pay good money you better get good quality out of it -

The magical, dreamland in which you live sounds delightful.

In the real world, mistakes happen in billion dollar projects that also cost human lives. Quality control on your plastic army man whose worst consequence is they have to make you a new plastic army man certainly has lower need.

You act like quality control is such a hard thing to do and only THE most special of business should use it - I mean what do GW store clerks do all day that they cant simply check a product before selling it to the customers - like I said before PREMIUM PRICES EXPECT PREMIUM SERVICE - honestly I don't know what lala land you live in but stay there and don't leave home.

you know what in your world every independent store would be dirty, have poor customer services and heck wouldn't repair their products because why would they "mistake happens in billion dollar project why should we care in our little store" - there is a reason GW has a customer complains department - if a service is not provided to the standard you expect you make a complain - the is a reson companies spend BILLIONS every year trying to make their customers feel better by increasing customer services and customer realtionships - but apparently GW is immune because clearly there are worst thing out there.

heck true story - I got stabbed 3 years ago but hey who cares about me being stabbed there are people who are shot every year and die I am the lucky one, I shouldn't expect the person who stabbed me to get caught by the police should I no there are plenty of worse things in life - I Live in lala land where apparently premium prices = non premium service and me expecting my product to be checked before sale is STUPID-

seriously if its so easy to quality check the product before buying it why didn't the GW clerks do it - oh I forgot its not in their job description if it doesn't include sitting on your arse painting toys you shouldn't expect them to do anything. My local gaming shop provides near beast services I can imagine - not only can I book a table but they provide me with all the rules and rule books I need and even spare miniatures if I don't have any and even give us a ref who will overseer the whole game and if I ever get problems like my metal figs having some mold lines guess what the store clerks clean those up for me - yes I can do those things myself but I pay premium prices at their store and they realize that with those prices you expect a certain degree of customer care.

in the UK we expect businesses to perform with certain quality and standards maybe where you come from you don't but in the UK we do - its expected


I do have 1 question - do they really send out a new miniature simply with a picture and a call to GW - do you realize how easy it is to milk it - buy a fine cast - melt it a bit- complain - get a free miniature - if gw are really sending out free miniature like that boy am I getting multiple astoroths - they have no proof it wasn't a finecast error and since I don't send anything back I get to keep 2 miniatures

here are some GW policies

4 Ownership of Products
4.1 You will become the owner of the Products when they have been delivered to you.
4.2 Once Products have been delivered to you they will be held at your risk and we will not be liable for their use, loss or destruction.

also this

7.5 Products returned by you because of a defect will be examined by us. Where evidence of a defect is found we will notify you of your entitlement to (at your option) (i) a replacement Product, or (ii) a refund for the defective Product. Where a refund is requested, we will process the refund due to you (including a refund of the delivery charges for sending the item to you and the cost incurred by you in returning the item to us) as soon as possible and, in any case, within 30 days of the day we confirmed to you that you were entitled to a refund for the defective Product.

the only way they can proof a defect is by looking at the product first hand - the higlighted clearly states you need to send the product back to them - its not simply "call them up and get a new one free"

I am done listening to your nonsense

MikZor wrote:Wowser, who would honestly buy a phone for under 10 quid though I stand corrected none the less

As for replacements, i've heard of that happening on forums and such(see the second post in this thread*), then again it is the internet. Best bet is to ring and ask though, just don't mention your within driving distance of a store

Worst case scenario, is the OP has to drive 25mins(the horror) to GW and get a new one, probably checking it this time around

IMO if the OP has had every single finecast model he bought in terrible condition, then he really should be checking the next ones he gets feverously anyways, Fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, shame on me. I will concede and say he really shouldn't have to but i don't think it's as epic an ordeal as it seems in this forum, especially as it could have been avoided by the OP.

*honestly though i am unsure if it was sent back, doesn't seem like it though

Also just for the record i know your not the OP, those questions were for the OP.

Whine: To complain or protest in a childish fashion.
I fail to see how or where i have 'whined' about anything in this thread

Hi chaps/chapesses
I really didn't expect this amount of replies! Normally if I post a thread I get two or maybe three replies! Seems this one is a bit of a sore point for some! As the OP I will answer some questions: Yes I should check but as stated I should NOT have to!

I now steer clear of 'fine'cast due to the problems I have had but sometimes it is very difficult when some models are only 'fine'cast. I do also ebay for a lot of things.

I think that it is wonderful that people are having such a good time with 'fine'cast I really wish I was one of them! I can't be THIS UNLUCKY and yes I do have rather high but not ridiculous standards due to the fact 1, I do a lot of commission work and 2, I want quality for my money - the old saying is 'you get what you pay for in this world' in NOT being upheld by GW. I have just bought an Iwata custom micron airbrush because it is reputed to be the best you can get. Due to the great expense, I EXPECT quality and I do not see why we do not get it from GW.

The prices and comparisons made here are valid and need to be addressed on a relative scale. You buy a NEW car from a dealership and test drive it to make sure you LIKE it. You don't test drive a car for soundness unless it is SECOND HAND. We do not buy second hand models from GW. Mobile phones are getting cheaper all the time with the advancements whereas with our models they are getting more expensive with the 'advancements'.

Getting a replacement is fantastic but a LEGAL OBLIGATION of GW, but as told by a member of GW the other day, you just try to get a REFUND and see where you get! With the prices - have you seen a look on a parent's face when their child is begging them to buy them a battleforce?! If you could bottle expressions like that, it would cure warts!!! Another member of GW told me that (in hushed tones) they hate 'fine'cast and that if they didn't work for GW and get the discount they do, they would NOT be involved with the hobby in the first place.

The main reason for posting this thread was due to being sent some commission work by a chap where included was a perfect casting of a finecast inquisitor coteaz! On inspecting this I then rushed to my grim hoping for the same and being for the (loss count) time, being dissapointed. I am also going through some Sanguinary Guard - plastic and with perfect wings! Instead of resin, why not make all the models plastic?

Although I totally agree with Yevix, I also agree with people being allowed to their opinion. So typing crap about growing up should not be on this forum in general. Personal attacks are NOT welcome. As to the 'wow only 25 minutes to your GW store' I pay DOUBLE for my fuel than Australians do, so I think I have the right to be concerned about that! Even though Australia (being an incredibly beautiful country) is the largest Island on this wonderful planet and ours being one of the smallest, we do have a seriously crap road system which is blocked up all the time!!!!

So please only decent replies as the sarcasm that some of us are posting isn't doing much for the poster's cred! Remember that sarcasm is the lowest form of wit!
Cheers

I'm wondering where people are getting all these dodgy Finecast models from.
I recently got my latest bulk order from GW, my DE Haemonculi coven, which consists of mainly wracks and grotesques.
30+ Finecast models, not one of which had a single flaw.
All of them were perfectly cast with minimal flash/mould lines.
The models were of a far higher production standard than the last metal models I bought which needed quite a lot of work to get rid of mould lines/flash/vent residue.

What's wrong with the model in OP's post?


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I think Finecast is one of those issues where those who suffer from it are much, much, much louder than the satisfied customers; I've gotten good finecast models and not posted about it... I think that, as with a lot of GW stuff, the satisfied customers are just a silent majority.

marv335 wrote:I'm wondering where people are getting all these dodgy Finecast models from.

Vocal minority syndrome.

There seems to be a lot of people getting dodgy casts due to the nature of message boards, but the amount of people complaining about it on the internet is a very, very small portion of GW's customer base. We're talking tiny. When you consider there are tens of thousands of stores across GW and independant retailers worldwide selling lots of models, the few you see harping on about bad casts are actually a very insignificant amount of the customer base.

It just seems like theres a lot because, well, when you see a 100 page thread on page 1 of every message board that talks about GW products, it comes across as a lot of hate for it. Then you go an count how many of the posts are from the same people, think logically about how many people are registered on those boards (seriously, if the people posting on message boards were the bulk of GW's customers, they wouldn't be making enough money to keep the company running), you'll start to reconsider how 'serious' the finecast miscast issue is. The worst part of it is how ridiculously high some prices went (like Archaon being nearly as expensive as an Arachnorok now).

Henners91 wrote:What's wrong with the model in OP's post?


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I think Finecast is one of those issues where those who suffer from it are much, much, much louder than the satisfied customers; I've gotten good finecast models and not posted about it... I think that, as with a lot of GW stuff, the satisfied customers are just a silent majority.

The wings are the main problem because after posting this thread, they broke when trying to free them from the sprue!

SO far finecast hasn't been that big of a problem. I understand that flaws are out there BUT I remember 13 years ago when metal models had such horrible molds that it was slowed. I mean I got a box of chaos terminators and one of the terminators was literally a block of pewter. Its new give it time. Hell even plastics had it's problems. My friend got a box of high elf spear men a few years back and all the heads on one sprue looked like beans.

My Ghazzy has a slight miscast at his waist, but I painted that as battle damage. Friends of mine were less lucky, one had to open three packs to finally get an intact Ghazghkull Thrakka, while another had to add half a strip of greenstuff across fifteen flamers of tzeench.

So where are all these horror stories of GW refusing to replace a defective model? That's the only thing that would matter, not that they sold you a defective one initially.

DarknessEternal wrote:So where are all these horror stories of GW refusing to replace a defective model? That's the only thing that would matter, not that they sold you a defective one initially.

I swear we are going in circles its not about the replacements the fact that they replace the product doesn't mean anything GW has too legally replace them, we all love GW thats why we play the game the issue is that with so much money going into GW issues like checking stock before sales should not be hard.

If a customer has a faulty product, great he will get it replaced (withing 30 days of sending the faulty product) but why did he get the faulty product in the first place - you and several posters are acting like its the customers fault for getting a faulty product and he should have checked before buying - I am saying the GW store or factory should have done so first instead of making customers wait 30 days to get the product back or having to travel too the GW store for replacement.

DarknessEternal wrote:So where are all these horror stories of GW refusing to replace a defective model? That's the only thing that would matter, not that they sold you a defective one initially.

They don't refuse you but it is a legal obligation through contract and purchasing law (in this country) that if they sell something defective, then they MUST either replace or refund. It's just that I am tired of CONSTANTLY changing the damn things!


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yevix wrote:

DarknessEternal wrote:So where are all these horror stories of GW refusing to replace a defective model? That's the only thing that would matter, not that they sold you a defective one initially.

I swear we are going in circles its not about the replacements the fact that they replace the product doesn't mean anything GW has too legally replace them, we all love GW thats why we play the game the issue is that with so much money going into GW issues like checking stock before sales should not be hard.

If a customer has a faulty product, great he will get it replaced (withing 30 days of sending the faulty product) but why did he get the faulty product in the first place - you and several posters are acting like its the customers fault for getting a faulty product and he should have checked before buying - I am saying the GW store or factory should have done so first instead of making customers wait 30 days to get the product back or having to travel too the GW store for replacement.

Thumbs up to that one!

They do check, which should be plainly obvious by the fact that most of their products do not contain defects.

Quality control on an assembly line of this nature means checking products at random, not checking every single one. It's how companies work, all companies.

I like fine cast more then I like metal. (Plastic is way better.) Putting together metal is a pain. The models right now are covered in excessive flash and not always complete. My friends demon lord was missing a finger. I'm hopeing that these problems are only temporary and that they get fixed.

When I have had problems with my casts from plastic, they simply take my word on it. I call them up, tell them exactly what is wrong, and the CS rep apologizes. 1 week later I get a package with the broken sprue's replacements without paying a penny or even having to mail in the broken one. That is good customer service. The premium price that we pay covers that kind of service as well as the product.

As for the clerks checking every box they sell before selling it, are you crazy? There are far more important things to do when running a store than to do a visual hand check on the contents of every single box that comes through your door. Hell, simply running inventory on just the boxes takes the majority of the night in most places.

With the support system that GW has instituted to replacing the minis, you do have to check. If you do it at the store, you can solve the problem in the 2 minutes it takes to walk back and check a new one. If you refuse to check it at the store just so that you have some reason to be angry with GW stealing from you, call the friendly help line and get a replacement for free.

The dissenting minority is always louder than the complying majority.

-cgmckenzie

cgmckenzie wrote:I have had problems with the plastic kits, but I called GW up, explained my situation, and they sent me a replacement free of charge.

I had an eldar war walker kit that was missing the clear plastic sprue with the canopy piece on it and called for a replacement...they sent an entirely new war walker kit. That is customer service.

I haven't had any problems with Finecast. The few models I've purchased in fine cast have been fine right out of the box. The real question I have for the people who are really upset by this is:

Why still keep buying if you are unhappy with the quality and think the price is too high?

Being a happy consumer means getting your money's worth and being happy with your purchase. If you aren't getting those things then why bother? Save your money or spend it on some other hobby addiction instead.

Skriker


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yevix wrote:the only way they can proof a defect is by looking at the product first hand - the higlighted clearly states you need to send the product back to them - its not simply "call them up and get a new one free"

The section you quote specifically says how they will handle a product that you *return* to them as defective. They will then examine it and determine if you will be given a replacement or a refund. It does not say you *must* return a product to get a replacement from them. Just that if you *do* return it this is what will happen. Perhaps before getting upset you should actually read the supposed proof you are using because it doesn't say what you claim it says.

You complain about them requiring you to return product for replacement, but you obviously have *never* called for a replacement. Multiple times I have found missing pieces in blisters or boxes, called up GW, read them the code off of the product and they sent me my replacement no questions asked. At one point I had a war walker kit that was missing the clear plastic sprue with the canopy on it. I called GW up because I wanted to get that sprue for my piece to finish it. They sent me a completely new war walker kit as a replacement. Can't beat that.

Yes this system is open to abuse, but what would be the point of doing so except the drive prices up even higher and maybe even make them stop doing things this way and instead switch to requiring you to send back the item you have before they will replace it??

Skriker

DarknessEternal wrote:They do check, which should be plainly obvious by the fact that most of their products do not contain defects.

Quality control on an assembly line of this nature means checking products at random, not checking every single one. It's how companies work, all companies.

GW have officially released a statement saying that "our first batch of fine cast has errors" they admitted the fact that they made a mistake with it - if this was a car company or a mobile phone company all those finecast (the first batch that has errors) would have been sent back to the head factory and replaced with better ones thats the basics of business.

So GW knows that their finecast may contain errors but hey still simply random check the product? no I am sorry thats not right if we didn't have so many people complaining and remember this is just on the Internet there could be many more people who simply don't use forums and still get problems and instead of checking in stores for EXTRA quality control they simply don't care - remember the OP had to return his finecast multiple times - how can a store sell multiple faulty products to one customer unless multiple batches are faulty.

And how can a store or company that knows full well that the first line of finecast may contain errors (a lot of them) not check them in store - just think about its

GW LORD "Oi boys first batch of finecast may have errors instead of checking them lets make the customers buy the product so that we can get their money quickly and simply replace the product later"
the funny thing is that every time you call and ask for a replacement guess what THEY WILL CHECK THAT THE PRODUCT IS NOT AS FAULTY AS THE OLD ONE before sending it too you - so they can check after but not before?

When I have had problems with my casts from plastic, they simply take my word on it. I call them up, tell them exactly what is wrong, and the CS rep apologizes. 1 week later I get a package with the broken sprue's replacements without paying a penny or even having to mail in the broken one. That is good customer service. The premium price that we pay covers that kind of service as well as the product.

my mistake maybe they simply know that fine cast has many errors and instead of checking them all they simply send it too you, doesn't the fact that you don't send in the model makes you wonder "why aren't they checking my products" I mean think about the situation I can call up GW and say "I have a faulty Archaon blah blah blah" and they would send me a new one without any issues or checking if I am lying...you realise how easily this can be abused.

The only time I can see this happening is if GW knows that many MANY finecast have faults and instaed of asking customers to send it back they simply replace it- good service I agree but that doesnt excuse the fact that ALL OF THIS situation could have been prevented if simply 1 store clerks checked the product before hand.

As for the clerks checking every box they sell before selling it, are you crazy? There are far more important things to do when running a store than to do a visual hand check on the contents of every single box that comes through your door. Hell, simply running inventory on just the boxes takes the majority of the night in most places.

I have worked in Lillywhite one of the biggest sports stores in central London and guess what I had to recheck the stock daily for faults and errors(a lot of boxes I even had nightmares about boxes) they had multiple people doing that - and please tell me what do GW stores actually do - every time I go inside 1 or 2 people are always sitting down paitning and talking about fluff etc - I once went inside a store and talked to the clerk for over 3 hours about Ogre Kindgoms - he had 3 hours to talk to me about Ogre Kingdoms but apparently he has lots of work to do in store - seriously please tell how hard it is to be a GW store clerk in all honestly most of the time they sit around painting and how much stock can they have - you think they have THOUSANDS of boxes at back, maybe a couple hundred no more, its not like they sell off all the stocks on a daily basis, this is not McDonalds.

With the support system that GW has instituted to replacing the minis, you do have to check. If you do it at the store, you can solve the problem in the 2 minutes it takes to walk back and check a new one. If you refuse to check it at the store just so that you have some reason to be angry with GW stealing from you, call the friendly help line and get a replacement for free.

Please if you are going to post something read ALL the previous post, don't be lazy - firstly most people don't live near GW stores and having to travel to replace a toy is not fun especially if it happens multiple times and like I stated above - there is some serious erros with stock if GW doesnt check if you are lying or not - the fact that you can call them up and get a free miniature that easily means they know that the stock is faulty and simply sending a new one is easier then rechecking it. - and again customers should not have to check it in store - you people are making it sound like its the customers fault for getting a faulty product.

The dissenting minority is always louder than the complying majority.

A satisfied customer is the best business strategy of all.
Michael LeBoeuf

Even if you are a minority of one, the truth is the truth.
Mohandas Gandhi

cgmckenzie wrote:I have had problems with the plastic kits, but I called GW up, explained my situation, and they sent me a replacement free of charge.

again read above there must be serious errors with stock if they don't check the product when you ask for a replacement - just imagine how easily this can be abused

I haven't had any problems with Finecast. The few models I've purchased in fine cast have been fine right out of the box. The real question I have for the people who are really upset by this is:

Why still keep buying if you are unhappy with the quality and think the price is too high?

Neither have I, if you read my posts you can see that I am fine with my products that still doesn't excuse poor judgment on GW side - no one is unhappy with the products or GW its like the Matt Ward effect - we all want to hang the guy but that doesnt stop the fact that we love warhammer/40k

Being a happy consumer means getting your money's worth and being happy with your purchase. If you aren't getting those things then why bother? Save your money or spend it on some other hobby addiction instead.

can you imagine if you ran GW - they would close in matter of days - customers LOVE GW even when we hate some of their decisions - I love UK and I love America (you make best entertainment) but I Dont agree with the wars they start - imagine if everyone thought like you "OH nose I got a bad products ah well I am gonna have to quit now" GW would be out of business. just because we hate some of their decision doesnt mean we should quit -

All this proves is that people like Wulfen Andy are the most dedicated and loyal customers out there instead of quiting he continues on buying GW products - without people like Wulfen GW would die quicker then a toad in boiling water - you on the other hand aren't like him.

The section you quote specifically says how they will handle a product that you *return* to them as defective. They will then examine it and determine if you will be given a replacement or a refund. It does not say you *must* return a product to get a replacement from them. Just that if you *do* return it this is what will happen. Perhaps before getting upset you should actually read the supposed proof you are using because it doesn't say what you claim it says.

7.5 Products returned by you because of a defect will be examined by us. --- this is pretty clear to me - how can I say "hey my Finecast is faulty can I get a new one" without sending the faulty product to them - how are they gonna examine it. GW customers services are not made up of psykers they cant read out minds you know.

and its not a choice if i want to send the product or not -

You complain about them requiring you to return product for replacement, but you obviously have *never* called for a replacement. Multiple times I have found missing pieces in blisters or boxes, called up GW, read them the code off of the product and they sent me my replacement no questions asked. At one point I had a war walker kit that was missing the clear plastic sprue with the canopy on it. I called GW up because I wanted to get that sprue for my piece to finish it. They sent me a completely new war walker kit as a replacement. Can't beat that.

and you never read previous post you just jump into a forum and start posting like a mindless robot, if you read what I posted you can clearly see that I HAVE NEVER HAD PROBLEMS WITH MY GW ITEMS (well only a few times with metal ones)

Yes this system is open to abuse, but what would be the point of doing so except the drive prices up even higher and maybe even make them stop doing things this way and instead switch to requiring you to send back the item you have before they will replace it??

again it clearly says

7.5 Products returned by you because of a defect will be examined by us. Where evidence of a defect is found we will notify you of your entitlement to (at your option) (i) a replacement Product, or (ii) a refund for the defective Product

the only reason I can see them NOT CHECKING the product is if they know that the products may contain errors and as an apology send you one without checking the old ones - hey thats great still doesn't excuse the fact that a customer bought a faulty product multiple times - again the law and policy of GW is quite clear IF THE PRODUCT IS FAULTY SEND IT BACK FOR INSPECTION AND THEY WILL SEND YOU A REFUND OR REPLACEMENT - there is no ifs or buts or maybes thats the law the way its written.

Yes its great GW arent making us send products back and we get instant replacement but that brings up one question why are they ignoring their own policy


ps - Just today I called GW and asked a for a replacement for my non existent necron warrior squad I said "some of the necron warriors heads are missing" staff member told me "send the products to us and we will check them or bring them to one of our stores" so I have no idea how everyone is getting replacements easily I couldn't get a new necron warrior box over the phone.

I actually think the Astorath pics look cool. If you paint over the wings, then it would fix it. If not, then shining the light at the right angle would give them a Holy appearence, shining with an inner light. The fact that he doesn't have eyes, makes him look even more "Grim."

Deadshot wrote:I actually think the Astorath pics look cool. If you paint over the wings, then it would fix it. If not, then shining the light at the right angle would give them a Holy appearence, shining with an inner light. The fact that he doesn't have eyes, makes him look even more "Grim."

its been established Astorath was blinded at birth and only has a sense of smell to find his prey

This arguement:

1) Shouldn't have to check faulty goods.
2) various ways to resolve the problem(free replacement, checking beforehand)
3) Repeat steps 1-3

Not even going to bother replying as it'll just go around in a circle.
Next time however OP, check the product if it's in the clear pack, or open it in store

Off topic: what are UK fuel prices? Out of interest(Please be aware i'm not trying to be condecsending in any way, it's hard to show any emotion on the internet lol)

MikZor wrote:This arguement:

1) Shouldn't have to check faulty goods.
2) various ways to resolve the problem(free replacement, checking beforehand)
3) Repeat steps 1-3

Not even going to bother replying as it'll just go around in a circle.
Next time however OP, check the product if it's in the clear pack, or open it in store

Off topic: what are UK fuel prices? Out of interest(Please be aware i'm not trying to be condecsending in any way, it's hard to show any emotion on the internet lol)

yup agree with you - I don't like going in circles as well

oh and fuel prices here are my local area average prices

Unleaded 135.95p
Diesel 139.70p
Super 143.25p
LPG 76.66p

per L

This price varies area to area -

Wowser that's pretty nasty like $2 AUD per L nasty.
Good call on the fuel then OP, ring them and get the replacement, or send it in worst case scenario.
And maybe invest in a bike

Assuming I did my math right...does that equal out to roughly $7.40 a gallon? We here in the U.S. don't use your stinking metric system

If so, ouch. Seriously. I'm not complaining about my $3.80 a gallon anymore.

I dont have that much problems with finecast. Basically I only have one finecast boss Zagstruk and thats it

MikZor wrote:Wowser that's pretty nasty like $2 AUD per L nasty.
Good call on the fuel then OP, ring them and get the replacement, or send it in worst case scenario.
And maybe invest in a bike

diesel in US dollars would be $2.21

Locclo wrote:Assuming I did my math right...does that equal out to roughly $7.40 a gallon? We here in the U.S. don't use your stinking metric system

If so, ouch. Seriously. I'm not complaining about my $3.80 a gallon anymore.

1 US gallon = 3.785411784 liters. = $8.177
1 UK (Imperial) gallon = 4.54609188 liters. = $9.945


gave up my car MONTHS ago now I am a fooslogger

MikZor wrote:Wowser that's pretty nasty like $2 AUD per L nasty.
Good call on the fuel then OP, ring them and get the replacement, or send it in worst case scenario.
And maybe invest in a bike

I have two already (although selling one!). I also live in a village miles from most places!

Locclo wrote:Assuming I did my math right...does that equal out to roughly $7.40 a gallon? We here in the U.S. don't use your stinking metric system

If so, ouch. Seriously. I'm not complaining about my $3.80 a gallon anymore.

Yep! It is cheap in many places but I have found that petrol is more expensive in France but the diesel price (I use diesel) is cheaper than here!!! Also don't worry about the scale systems we have you'll soon evolve lol! Although in saying that I prefer our half metric half imperial to the European fully metric!

yevix wrote:

MikZor wrote:Wowser that's pretty nasty like $2 AUD per L nasty.
Good call on the fuel then OP, ring them and get the replacement, or send it in worst case scenario.
And maybe invest in a bike

diesel in US dollars would be $2.21

Locclo wrote:Assuming I did my math right...does that equal out to roughly $7.40 a gallon? We here in the U.S. don't use your stinking metric system

If so, ouch. Seriously. I'm not complaining about my $3.80 a gallon anymore.

1 US gallon = 3.785411784 liters. = $8.177
1 UK (Imperial) gallon = 4.54609188 liters. = $9.945


gave up my car MONTHS ago now I am a fooslogger

I just hope (knowing the short-term answer) that something can be done about the prices such as bio-fuels or electric cars etc!

But a big thanks to all who posted - sometimes it's good to have a good rant! Well, definately not going in circles - I will make sure that if I buy finecast again, I will get the GW staff to open it before I pay! I will be returning Grim due to his wings breaking on removal! And thanks for clearing up the fact he doesn't have eyes!

Cheers chaps!
Andy

Locclo wrote:Assuming I did my math right...does that equal out to roughly $7.40 a gallon? We here in the U.S. don't use your stinking metric system

If so, ouch. Seriously. I'm not complaining about my $3.80 a gallon anymore.

Oil prices go up, but the government doesn't slacken the taxes...

But hey, it should *hopefully* encourage us not to romp around in huge 4x4s wasting finite resources...

The change to Finecast was was done for a set of completely legitimate, intelligent, prudent and pragmatic reasons:

1. They are a business.
2. Businesses need to keep track of overheads.
3. When certain overheads become too expensive, they must be dumped, sourced from elsewhere, or alternatives found.
4. The UK economy is in the toilet.
5. GW isn't making money.
6. Tin prices were going up and up, making the long-term future of metal miniatures doubtful.
7. Resin is a cheaper alternative to metal.
8. Change metal models into resin models of approximate detail, and the overheads decrease. The models are far cheaper to produce and the materials that make them are much cheaper to procure.

See? All that makes perfect sense. Any company in a similar situation would be stupid not to change their production methods and save themselves a lot of money in the process.

Of course, this is Games Workshop - home of the great concept and terrible execution. What should have been the transfer from metal to resin suddenly turned into something else - they tried to make it an event, with hyperbolic marketing language that was simply laughable (a revolution in miniatures, most detailed models in the world). That was a bad start.

Then they put the prices up. Yes, put the prices up on something that was done as a (completely legitimate) cost-cutting measure. I have no issue with GW attempting to cut costs. I take great issue with GW cutting costs and then spiking the price to create and even wider margin. That's just vindictive and contemptuous.

And then to cap it all off (as if that was't bad enough), the QA on the products themselves turned out to be non-existent, with miniature quality dropping to below that of Forge World (and they are notorious for their QA problems). Badly moulded, broken, and miscast models, parts of the mould stuck to the models (yet they were shipped as if perfect) all combined with a cheap and nasty material that is quite easy to stick together but is as bendy as gak. We've seen the pictures, we've heard the stories of people going through blister after blister to find passable models. We've even seen one of the largest retailers in the UK cease all trading of the Finecast product lines. Not good.

When combined with all the marketing bs about a miniature second coming... well... is it any surprise to see what people think about Failcost? It was a perfectly good thing to do, but sadly it was Games Workshop that attempted to do it.

"That... is why you fail." - Yoda, a casual gamer.

Locclo wrote:Assuming I did my math right...does that equal out to roughly $7.40 a gallon? We here in the U.S. don't use your stinking metric system

If so, ouch. Seriously. I'm not complaining about my $3.80 a gallon anymore.

Americans pay much less for gasoline because we consume so much more. It also might have something to do with the general impossibility of enacting any working public transportation system in a country as large as ours that is relativly sparsely populated.
If the UK would stop bending to thier road lobbies and invest in updating thier dilapidated rail system and I dunno, try to competently manage it...I dunno where I was going with that. Get an Electric motor with sufficient power and a decent battery and make an electro bike.

yevix wrote:and you never read previous post you just jump into a forum and start posting like a mindless robot, if you read what I posted you can clearly see that I HAVE NEVER HAD PROBLEMS WITH MY GW ITEMS (well only a few times with metal ones)

Nothing like insulting people because they don't agree with you. On top of that you falsely call GW asking for replacements for non-existent minis. Yeah guess we know the kind of person we are dealing with now.

Skriker

AustonT wrote:Americans pay much less for gasoline because we consume so much more.

The price difference between many countries (Australia being a notable exception) for a unit of gas is almost solely based on taxes.

Also, while tin prices have gone up in the last decade or so, it's been nowhere as steep a rise as oil. But I think HMBC makes a good point that GW is a company that takes a decent-sounding idea and totally feths it up.

I also suspect that a lot of the reason that we're seeing different quality in the casts is because newer models are designed for Finecast moulds while older models are still using metal moulds (or at least masters cast from the metal moulds). As more models and moulds are redesigned with Finecast in mind, hopefully the rate of error will decrease.

So, what I've heard so far is

"GW has screwed up on a brand new product, thus, they are terrible,"

"GW has screwed up on a brand new product, but they're trying their best, so you're terrible,"

I'll admit, I've gotten a fethed up finecast, and they should probably have done a better job of it, but GW is also trying its best to keep people happy, and fix this problem.

Now, I must ready myself to get shredded by other posters.

I only got one finecast model, and despite being terrified that it would be mangled beyond recognition, it ended up being perfect.

I'm more concerned about the fragility of resine... very breakable, I don't know if forgeworld resine is the same or not.

Finecast is good. You got a bad one. Would you have cried like this if it were metal or plastic?

Skriker wrote:

yevix wrote:and you never read previous post you just jump into a forum and start posting like a mindless robot, if you read what I posted you can clearly see that I HAVE NEVER HAD PROBLEMS WITH MY GW ITEMS (well only a few times with metal ones)

Nothing like insulting people because they don't agree with you. On top of that you falsely call GW asking for replacements for non-existent minis. Yeah guess we know the kind of person we are dealing with now.

Skriker

Mate calm down its not like I am actually going to ask them to send me a new model, I have to send it in with my details so if I don't nothing happens. You need to realize I did that call to make a point (again you made a poor assumption that I actually fallowed through with my call) - and yes I did a slight insult and I apologize but you didn't exactly read my previous posts did you. you felt to simply make assumptions and say what you wanted, twice.

my final words to you, Computer says no. *cough* Carol Beer

I open the packaging in the shop (they have craft knives). So far I have not had any issues but that way I can simply hand it back there and then.

I think the worst thing about them is that they are fundamentally fragile. It is dead easy to break them if you are at all rough and since you have to really chop at the basing slots to get them to shape you could easily snap one off and then you would not be able to take it back.

I just don't use those slots. I take the pegs off and glue it straight on.

Isengard wrote:I open the packaging in the shop (they have craft knives). So far I have not had any issues but that way I can simply hand it back there and then.

I think the worst thing about them is that they are fundamentally fragile. It is dead easy to break them if you are at all rough and since you have to really chop at the basing slots to get them to shape you could easily snap one off and then you would not be able to take it back.

Yes I would have to totally agree on the fragile nature! The amount of times I have had to glue bits on is stupid, but what is worse, I had to recently glue on Zagstrukk's joystick (once again) when handling the model! I was told that it was best to break all delicate parts then glue them back on afterwards for a better bonding (GW manager) but I have already used superglue more than once on Zag's model! Also the latest brittle nature came in the form on Dante where his sodding slot piece and his axe both broke on release from the sprue! For some reason it took a long time to get the axe together with super glue!

I'll tell you why they replaced metal.


It SUCKED.


End of.

I can tell you i quite like fine cast. besides the little bit of effort it takes to prep your models, its better. I play tyranids and getting a zoey to stand up when they were metal made me want to punch a small child. also the new hive guard are sweet!

True. I have 2 metal Hives, they were a nightmare. Turns out dry green stuff is useless.

As for the Zoany, I have a metal one. It stands( though not on a hill), but that is because I used an obscene amount of green stuff.

I see this thread is full of the usual "you need to grow up, whiner" responses from the usual GW apologists.

Fact is, if you pay £14+ for a single model, that model should be flawless.

No excuses.

Then, by rights, all models should be flawless. You pay at least £20 for a squad, so they should all be flawless.

GW can't guarentee that a model will be perfect, but they do try their best.

scarletsquig wrote:I see this thread is full of the usual "you need to grow up, whiner" responses from the usual GW apologists.

Fact is, if you pay £14+ for a single model, that model should be flawless.

No excuses.

And yet, some people pay $20,000+ for a car and it's a lemon. See where I'm going with this?

Or pay to see some singers when the suck raw eggs and barf them back up, before sucking them up again, *coughBiebercough*.

Plus, as has already been mentioned, metal models were hardly perfect. The detail was a bit off, getting Zoanthropes to stand up was a nightmare (ARGH!) they chip, they are usually covered with fiddly little vents which are a buggar to remove and are targets for chipping, and more often than not they don't fit together properly. Take the metal Hive Tyrant: The torso fits together so badly it looks like the 3 components were from 3 different kits.

I'm certainly no fan of finecast, because I unabashedly love metal models. GWs first run of finecast was admittedly garbage, but the one thing I have come to expect from GW is customer service. In the way back, when bits ordering was still open, I bought a Furioso and a LR Crusader about a month apart. The Fury was missing a powerclaw, I called them and 2 days later I had two more in the mail. I thought it was just an accident until the Crusader; it was missing ONE hurricane bolter that's it. I again called GW and I recieved the entire pewter sponson. My experience with CS at GW has been that they will make it right, and then some. I'm far from a GW defender with thier needless annual price hikes, irratatingly regular orange peeling on certain models I purchased several copies of, and their ham fisted finecast release. But they deserve a fair shake, if you have a substandard product in your hand they will replace it, through the post if that's what you want, at thier cost. That said, it shouldn't be this way.

scarletsquig wrote:I see this thread is full of the usual "you need to grow up, whiner" responses from the usual GW apologists.

Fact is, if you pay £14+ for a single model, that model should be flawless.

No excuses.

So I take it you cried like this any time you got a miscast metal?

Because if you never got one, you're fething lucky. Metal miscasts happened, and hey, just like Finecast, GW replaced them.

When casting models, you'll never get 100% quality assurance, and defects will go out. Even the awesome, 'collector' quality stuff gets this. Mcvey studios? Someone in general discussion (I have a hunch it was Killkrazy, but I might be wrong) for a fethed up limited run model from them. He fixed it, though Mcvey Studios would have obviously replaced it for free.

Miscasts happen. They've always happened and will always happen. Finecast was a absolutely gigantic release, with about a hundred individual models across 3 games and lots of ranges, so the amount of miscasts was going to be amplified - the more you release, the greater the miscast rate goes up just on casting, let alone what gets past QA. Finecast getting miscasts would have been completely expected by GW, which is why they put in limited purchases per person, to give a better chance at having remaining stock to replace any miscasts.

The fact that the general internet community had a sudden brainfart and forgot every miniatures company, casting in resin, metal or plastic sends out miscasts due to not catching them at QA and suddenly threw all their hate at GW probably wasn't expected, though they probably expected a greater level of intelligence in their consumers, which is never good business practice.

Bought a box of Incubi a few weeks back, my god i never knew things could bend, warp, and break so easily. I refuse to buy any new finecast models. I quite liked the old metal models, made me feel like my IC actually mentsomething as they were more weight in my hand. Now i resort to just make my own IC models from various bits. Already made a pretty sweet Dante, Sanquinar, Astorath, and Jump Pack Librarian all from the Sanquinary Guard box

It seems to me that people are placing far less value into their own hard earned than they should. The fact that there are posters in this thread that are of the belief that you shouldn't expect quality from a luxury manufacturer is just baffling.

If you bought a brand new Macbook and it had a crack in the screen, a dead pixel or a dent in its body, would you be happy with it? Of course you wouldn't, and you'd wonder how a company the size and prestige of Apple had managed to allow such a failure to get past their QA. As GW are marketing and profiling themselves as the Apple of the wargaming industry, (my words not theirs) with the 'best quality model soldiers in the world' coupled with astronomical prices, these finecast issues are in exactly the same vein, just on a different scale.

I don't know whether 'beaten spouse syndrome' is just the accepted norm when dealing with anything GW, but there's a scarily high degree of nonchalance here.

L. Wrex

Lycaeus Wrex wrote:It seems to me that people are placing far less value into their own hard earned than they should. The fact that there are posters in this thread that are of the belief that you shouldn't expect quality from a luxury manufacturer is just baffling.

I'm not saying you shouldn't expect quality. You absolutely, positively should.

I'm saying that claiming that every model should be absolutely perfect is rubbish. Any mold is going to produce miscasts, and miscasts are going to get past QA. This has been happening for decades. Plastics have very, very few problems, but metals and resins do get a lot of miscasts due to the nature of the mold and material. If you get a miscast, however, return it. For any company. Even companies with smaller runs of miniatures or limited edition miniatures with high track records of quality produce, and send out occasionally, miscast products. This isn't something new to GW and finecast.

Lycaeus Wrex wrote:It seems to me that people are placing far less value into their own hard earned than they should. The fact that there are posters in this thread that are of the belief that you shouldn't expect quality from a luxury manufacturer is just baffling.

If you bought a brand new Macbook and it had a crack in the screen, a dead pixel or a dent in its body, would you be happy with it?

No, you'd just have the company replace it. Just like GW and Apple do all the time without incident.

Lycaeus Wrex wrote:It seems to me that people are placing far less value into their own hard earned than they should. The fact that there are posters in this thread that are of the belief that you shouldn't expect quality from a luxury manufacturer is just baffling.

If you bought a brand new Macbook and it had a crack in the screen, a dead pixel or a dent in its body, would you be happy with it? Of course you wouldn't, and you'd wonder how a company the size and prestige of Apple had managed to allow such a failure to get past their QA. As GW are marketing and profiling themselves as the Apple of the wargaming industry, (my words not theirs) with the 'best quality model soldiers in the world' coupled with astronomical prices, these finecast issues are in exactly the same vein, just on a different scale.

I don't know whether 'beaten spouse syndrome' is just the accepted norm when dealing with anything GW, but there's a scarily high degree of nonchalance here.

L. Wrex

There is an allowed amount of dead pixels on monitors. I think it is 5 but I might be mistaken. So that means your new Macbook could have 4 dead pixels and you'll have to live with it. If it's 5 or more, and they cover it, they won't send you a brand new laptop even if yours is a day old. You have to send yours in to get fixed. So then your "brand new" Mac has already been to the shop and had factory parts replaced.

GW, on the other hand, will usually replace the whole model if so much as a bolter is miscast.

So, ya, not a very good analogy on your part :/

Lycaeus Wrex wrote:If you bought a brand new Macbook and it had a crack in the screen, a dead pixel or a dent in its body, would you be happy with it? Of course you wouldn't, and you'd wonder how a company the size and prestige of Apple had managed to allow such a failure to get past their QA. As GW are marketing and profiling themselves as the Apple of the wargaming industry, (my words not theirs) with the 'best quality model soldiers in the world' coupled with astronomical prices, these finecast issues are in exactly the same vein, just on a different scale.

I do expect good quality from GW and if I don't get it then I complain until I do. I complain directly to GW and don't bemoan the entire product line and call it *all* garbage because I got a bad mini or two. Manufactured "luxury" items are not magically immune from Murphy's law by any means. IMHO what matters isn't necessarily that every product a company makes is perfect, but how they handle the situation when I get hit with an imperfect item. If they fall all over themselves to get me a replacement in a timely and cost neutral manner to me then I am still a happy customer. If they act like their mistake was my fault, give me a hard time getting a timely replacement, expect me to pay to return their mistakes without refunds of shipping costs then I will no longer be a customer.

Given the massive amount of GW minis I have bought in the last 26+ years and the infintessimal percentage of them that had problems I am not going to lose any sleep over it nor get as cranky about it as some people in this thread seem to be getting.

Skriker

Having worked in the industry, and knowing what it takes to make miniatures like the ones people are buying from GW, I agree that some models will get past QA. But the reason is that they produce so many models that they cannot possibly look at every single miniature. If they did they would be paying that employee more money than the miniatures are worth and in effect losing money. It's not cost effective nor is it realistic.

Having said that, there IS a standard to uphold as a miniatures caster. As the mold is opened and the models taken out it is the responsibility of the caster to examine his models to make sure glaring problems such as tear out are not occuring. And having looked over numerous so called fine cast miniatures over the past few months, I can confidently say the majority of them are crap. I've seen a lot of them on store shelves that are cast so bad that if I had done that while working I would have been fired. There is no excuse for the amount of bad models that have made it to the shelves. The majority of them have tear out problems and some even have mold shift problems. This is just plain not caring about the models but just sending them out no matter how they look. Quality control in the production department must be non existant for this amount of bad models to make it out of the factory.

I liked metal! Never had one mis-cast with them back in the day! Unfortunately I have noticed a SEVERE decline in mouldings from the early 90's to now. I agree with people who say that GW customer service is good-it is until you want a refund.
But I also agree with people who say about getting quality for your money. Although the fluff in some places in the game appears to be getting silly and the models are getting 'more detail', in general QA and quality is going down. I was shocked at the gaping holes I had to fill with my metal Canis Wolfborn - never had it with my Bjorn the Fellhanded. Some of the plastics are cast with a couple a mm off-set (not good). But its all the crap that GW have shoved down our throats about the wonders of 'fine'cast. It was rushed, moulded badly, had the annoying pink ejection solution dried onto the models, loads of airholes and flippin' expensive!

When I was collecting GW models etc (from 1993-ish). the paints used to be £1.20 a pot! Now £2.30 and I'm not too sure about the greatness of the paints in all fairness - I will be trying out Vallejo due to the amount of paint and the price!

It just seems that quality in general is going down whilst prices are going up!

Coolyo294 wrote:I quite like Finecast. I've never gotten a bad cast and I've always hated metal models.

Same experience for me, I have a Finecast Yarrik and he is great. Way better then the metal models, impossible to keep together and paint.

oh i thought this contained infomation! But no just more of the same old nerd raging :( If you don't like the models, the paints, the prices, the GW staff, the location of the stores, the background fluff then really what do you enjoy about being involved in this hobby?
And why do Mods let these threads carry on?

Boomer wrote:oh i thought this contained infomation! But no just more of the same old nerd raging :( If you don't like the models, the paints, the prices, the GW staff, the location of the stores, the background fluff then really what do you enjoy about being involved in this hobby?
And why do Mods let these threads carry on?

Well said, +1.

Wulfen Andy wrote:When I was collecting GW models etc (from 1993-ish). the paints used to be £1.20 a pot! Now £2.30 and I'm not too sure about the greatness of the paints in all fairness - I will be trying out Vallejo due to the amount of paint and the price!

In '93 I used to buy a bottle of coke for $1.00au and petrol was 60c/L. Guess what? They're about triple that now.

H.B.M.C. wrote:The change to Finecast was was done for a set of completely legitimate, intelligent, prudent and pragmatic reasons:

1. They are a business.
2. Businesses need to keep track of overheads.
3. When certain overheads become too expensive, they must be dumped, sourced from elsewhere, or alternatives found.
4. The UK economy is in the toilet.
5. GW isn't making money.
6. Tin prices were going up and up, making the long-term future of metal miniatures doubtful.
7. Resin is a cheaper alternative to metal.
8. Change metal models into resin models of approximate detail, and the overheads decrease. The models are far cheaper to produce and the materials that make them are much cheaper to procure.

See? All that makes perfect sense. Any company in a similar situation would be stupid not to change their production methods and save themselves a lot of money in the process.

Of course, this is Games Workshop - home of the great concept and terrible execution. What should have been the transfer from metal to resin suddenly turned into something else - they tried to make it an event, with hyperbolic marketing language that was simply laughable (a revolution in miniatures, most detailed models in the world). That was a bad start.

Then they put the prices up. Yes, put the prices up on something that was done as a (completely legitimate) cost-cutting measure. I have no issue with GW attempting to cut costs. I take great issue with GW cutting costs and then spiking the price to create and even wider margin. That's just vindictive and contemptuous.

And then to cap it all off (as if that was't bad enough), the QA on the products themselves turned out to be non-existent, with miniature quality dropping to below that of Forge World (and they are notorious for their QA problems). Badly moulded, broken, and miscast models, parts of the mould stuck to the models (yet they were shipped as if perfect) all combined with a cheap and nasty material that is quite easy to stick together but is as bendy as gak. We've seen the pictures, we've heard the stories of people going through blister after blister to find passable models. We've even seen one of the largest retailers in the UK cease all trading of the Finecast product lines. Not good.

When combined with all the marketing bs about a miniature second coming... well... is it any surprise to see what people think about Failcost? It was a perfectly good thing to do, but sadly it was Games Workshop that attempted to do it.

"That... is why you fail." - Yoda, a casual gamer.

For a moment I'd thought H.B.M.C. was making a post that doesn't slam into Games Workshop... I nearly had a heart attack o.O

I don't like the price increase etc, but every finecast model I've ever bought has been find. I had a single mold line on my ogre tyrant, which came off anyway.

Finecast > Metal.

Boomer wrote:oh i thought this contained infomation! But no just more of the same old nerd raging :( If you don't like the models, the paints, the prices, the GW staff, the location of the stores, the background fluff then really what do you enjoy about being involved in this hobby?
And why do Mods let these threads carry on?

What a pathetic reply! Haven't you heard of freedom of speech? If people have a grievence, then they should be allowed to say whats on their mind - just like you have!
First of all I am not a nerd - I have a life, marriage, drive a fast car, play rugby as well as researching my PhD and play/collect this hobby. I have also moved into commission work for this hobby.
The models in general are good. Just problems seem to plague me w.r.t. 'fine'cast.
The paints could be better - hence the gradual move to Vallejo.
The GW staff are some of the best UNDER PAID members of our community when considering what they have to do for their pathetic wages.
Store locations are fine and their postal service equally so.
The fluff is very interesting with a few exceptions thanks to Ward.
And I do like this hobby.
Prices in this world do go up (don't think that I am naїve) GW prices have always been higher than what should truly be asked for concerning little models and the rest.

Working on a commission today and spending an awful amount of time to sort out Corteaz's cloak, the GW paint did not adhere to the 'fine'cast resin that well, once again not new to me I'm afraid and the result is shown. I have this poor chap waiting for this model (and others) and this infuriating episode has cost me a decent amount of time.

Perhaps 1, you should have looked at the title of the post and the amount of replies and put 2 and 2 together and,
2, Stop reading the posts and moved on if things like this annoy you so much!

Cheers

Wulfen Andy wrote:
First of all I am not a nerd -

Sorry, but anyone who plays 40k is automatically a nerd. Being a nerd is a good thing.

Prime the model. You prime metal, you prime plastic, you prime resin. That's painting 101. Not priming and then complaining about your paint not sticking is silly.

-cgmckenzie

yevix wrote:

Iranna wrote:Nothing a little greenstuff can't fix, suck it up man!

Iranna.

I hope you use green stuff on yourself and close your mouth shut, nothing is more annoying then spending hard earned cash on a 28mm plastic figure then find out you need to mend it and fix it because its poor quality.

the issue is not that you cant fix it the issue is that you shouldn't have to fix if when you spend £12.50 on Astorath

just think about it I can buy a pc mouse for less then £10 that has more tech and plastic then then any 28mm figure you can name.

Seriously dude calm down if you get a Fine cast model and it's got problems and GW won't replace it then use green stuff. That's all she was saying. Chill out

Plust when i bought a finecast Azhag the Slaugterer he was missing a hand and his left wing was spazzy. So they gave me another one. No big deal.

My Draigo finecast, and I jhave said this about 100 times, in 20 different threads, has a sword with a heat problem. The heat in my case causes it to bend at almost 90 degrees. And the paint still is perfect. It might be down to the tiny layer of varnish, but i doubt it, because the varnish is coming off most of my models.

Wulfen Andy wrote:Haven't you heard of freedom of speech?

That's a right no one has on this forum. It's also a right not all countries supported by GW have. It's pretty irrelevant.

Besides, freedom of speech only applies to the US government not being able to tell you to shut up. It does nothing to protect you from private citizens.

Just thought you should know.

-cgmckenzie

cgmckenzie wrote:Prime the model. You prime metal, you prime plastic, you prime resin. That's painting 101. Not priming and then complaining about your paint not sticking is silly.

-cgmckenzie

And how do you know that I didn't prime the model?! Come on friend, I have been painting these models for over 10 years!!!! Do you seriously think that I am that thick? Do you seriously think that I would not prime a commission model?! The model was PRIMED with chaos black spray, then lightly coated several times with thinned (added flow aid) white to obtain a good covering flat coat for the red I airsprayed on afterwards.

To think that I did not prime and then go on about painting 101 when you have no idea about my skills or experience truly astounds me! Don't make that mistake again! And as I posted earlier, try to keep the sarcasm out as it does nothing but annoys.

Wulfen Andy wrote:

cgmckenzie wrote:Prime the model. You prime metal, you prime plastic, you prime resin. That's painting 101. Not priming and then complaining about your paint not sticking is silly.

-cgmckenzie

And how do you know that I didn't prime the model?! Come on friend, I have been painting these models for over 10 years!!!! Do you seriously think that I am that thick? Do you seriously think that I would not prime a commission model?! The model was PRIMED with chaos black spray, then lightly coated several times with thinned (added flow aid) white to obtain a good covering flat coat for the red I airsprayed on afterwards.

To think that I did not prime and then go on about painting 101 when you have no idea about my skills or experience truly astounds me! Don't make that mistake again! And as I posted earlier, try to keep the sarcasm out as it does nothing but annoys.

Wow you got really mad at that lol. Did you wash the model before priming it?

cgmckenzie wrote:Besides, freedom of speech only applies to the US government not being able to tell you to shut up. It does nothing to protect you from private citizens.

Just thought you should know.

-cgmckenzie

Might be for America but in THIS country, so long as you are not causing alarm, harrassment and distress or anything which could constitute as slander, you can say what you like.
You might like to know this also!


Automatically Appended Next Post:

nectarprime wrote:

Wulfen Andy wrote:

cgmckenzie wrote:Prime the model. You prime metal, you prime plastic, you prime resin. That's painting 101. Not priming and then complaining about your paint not sticking is silly.

-cgmckenzie

And how do you know that I didn't prime the model?! Come on friend, I have been painting these models for over 10 years!!!! Do you seriously think that I am that thick? Do you seriously think that I would not prime a commission model?! The model was PRIMED with chaos black spray, then lightly coated several times with thinned (added flow aid) white to obtain a good covering flat coat for the red I airsprayed on afterwards.

To think that I did not prime and then go on about painting 101 when you have no idea about my skills or experience truly astounds me! Don't make that mistake again! And as I posted earlier, try to keep the sarcasm out as it does nothing but annoys.

Wow you got really mad at that lol. Did you wash the model before priming it?

Hi There!

Yes I am sorry but it is not a good thing for people to assume things which have no basis! Yep I wash every model just in case the ejection fluids etc. are still attached and can disturb your painting!!! I was taking off some Tamiya tape (had to reduce the stickiness of the tape before putting on though!) and the whole lot came off! Grrrr!!!

Wulfen Andy wrote:

cgmckenzie wrote:Besides, freedom of speech only applies to the US government not being able to tell you to shut up. It does nothing to protect you from private citizens.

Just thought you should know.

-cgmckenzie

Might be for America but in THIS country, so long as you are not causing alarm, harrassment and distress or anything which could constitute as slander, you can say what you like.
You might like to know this also!

Not on the internet.

nectarprime wrote:

Wulfen Andy wrote:

cgmckenzie wrote:Besides, freedom of speech only applies to the US government not being able to tell you to shut up. It does nothing to protect you from private citizens.

Just thought you should know.

-cgmckenzie

Might be for America but in THIS country, so long as you are not causing alarm, harrassment and distress or anything which could constitute as slander, you can say what you like.
You might like to know this also!

Not on the internet.

Trying not to be too pedantic but this is from the fount of all knowledge!!!

The right to freedom of expression is recognised as a human right under Article 19 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights and recognized in international human rights law in the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights (ICCPR). Article 19 of the ICCPR states that "[e]veryone shall have the right to hold opinions without interference" and "everyone shall have the right to freedom of expression; this right shall include freedom to seek, receive and impart information and ideas of all kinds, regardless of frontiers, either orally, in writing or in print, in the form of art, or through any other media of his choice".

There was no sarcasm in that post. You were complaining about the paint not sticking to the model, so it's a pretty simply conclusion to draw that you didn't prime.

Basecoating it with chaos black is different than priming, BTW. Primer is not paint, and if you have been doing commissions for years, you should know that.

I personally use a matte black primer spray that I picked up at a hardware store and have had amazing results with it on any surface, including resin. It base coats and primes, allowing my paint to stick to it and works as a base coat.

-cgmckenzie

Yes I do know, but I have used this spray (or should I say method) as primer for sooooo many years now and has worked very well for metal, hybrids and plastic - resin is showing frailty on the bonding.

wwellll at my local GW they said to me: if something isnt right with the model come here and youll get a new one.......only finecast i have so far= a jump pack chaplain and a squad sterngaurd.... PAiNTING=TOTALY NEW EXPERIENCE WITH FINECAST!!!!!!!

I just checked the GW website and they are advertising the chaos black spray as a paint/primer two in one. So, it is either a different formula than the paint pot CB or, more likely, the same formula but with primer slapped on the label. Are you using the airbrush with CB from the pot or the spray can one?

Also, try checking out your local hardware store for a real black primer. It will stick better and, if you are using it as a base coat, should be painted over mostly so the minor color discrepancy between chaos black and industrial primer black should be negligible. YMMV, though.

-cgmckenzie

cgmckenzie wrote:I just checked the GW website and they are advertising the chaos black spray as a paint/primer two in one. So, it is either a different formula than the paint pot CB or, more likely, the same formula but with primer slapped on the label. Are you using the airbrush with CB from the pot or the spray can one?

Also, try checking out your local hardware store for a real black primer. It will stick better and, if you are using it as a base coat, should be painted over mostly so the minor color discrepancy between chaos black and industrial primer black should be negligible. YMMV, though.

-cgmckenzie

The spray can one! It seems to be very stick when sprayed, but I am moving over to Vallejo paints and will be trying their primers - do you know if they are any good?!

Wulfen Andy wrote:

nectarprime wrote:

Wulfen Andy wrote:

cgmckenzie wrote:Besides, freedom of speech only applies to the US government not being able to tell you to shut up. It does nothing to protect you from private citizens.

Just thought you should know.

-cgmckenzie

Might be for America but in THIS country, so long as you are not causing alarm, harrassment and distress or anything which could constitute as slander, you can say what you like.
You might like to know this also!

Not on the internet.

Trying not to be too pedantic but this is from the fount of all knowledge!!!

The right to freedom of expression is recognised as a human right under Article 19 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights and recognized in international human rights law in the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights (ICCPR). Article 19 of the ICCPR states that "[e]veryone shall have the right to hold opinions without interference" and "everyone shall have the right to freedom of expression; this right shall include freedom to seek, receive and impart information and ideas of all kinds, regardless of frontiers, either orally, in writing or in print, in the form of art, or through any other media of his choice".

Sorry, but the fact of the matter is, if you are posting on someone's website, and they don't like what you have to say, they can remove your ability to speak freely. It doesn't matter what country you are in.

Now, back on topic, and I'm sorry if I have missed this, but have you called customer service?

I normally pop into the store. They deal with things wonderfully! Whenever I come to deal with something, one of the chaps will say "finecast again?!" to my answer of "yep!"

Wulfen Andy wrote:

What a pathetic reply! <snipped out the lies and yet more pointless and boring nerd rage>

Perhaps 1, you should have looked at the title of the post and the amount of replies and put 2 and 2 together and,
2, Stop reading the posts and moved on if things like this annoy you so much!

Cheers

lol, im not the one throwing my toys out of the pram because someone on the internet points your a whingy geek. Dude i dont care about what fantastic lies you can come up with, you can be a greasy, overweight 49 year old virgin wearing your mums dress for all i care. I like everything about Games Workshop, ive been a fan since i was a small boy back in 80's. It was an expensive hobby back then. And im my humble view not much has got worse mostly only better, the paints are better, there are washes now, the brushs are better, the plastic kits are bigger and better, the codexs are bigger and better presented. Nothing you have vomitted onto this thread hasnt been said before by sweaty angry nerds like you. Infact try a thread like this on Whineseer. They love to join the G.W hating there and they they might even try and cheer you up with lies like saying your good at painting! If you keeping bashing the company that make the hobby i and lots of others love then expect the G.W lovers to bash you back! Now go get your balls out of your made up wifes purse and lets see what kind of cutting insults you can come back with.

Wulfen Andy wrote:

cgmckenzie wrote:I just checked the GW website and they are advertising the chaos black spray as a paint/primer two in one. So, it is either a different formula than the paint pot CB or, more likely, the same formula but with primer slapped on the label. Are you using the airbrush with CB from the pot or the spray can one?

Also, try checking out your local hardware store for a real black primer. It will stick better and, if you are using it as a base coat, should be painted over mostly so the minor color discrepancy between chaos black and industrial primer black should be negligible. YMMV, though.

-cgmckenzie

The spray can one! It seems to be very stick when sprayed, but I am moving over to Vallejo paints and will be trying their primers - do you know if they are any good?!

Try Army Painter primers. They also have the benefit of very closely colour matching their primers to GW colours, so you might be able to skip the black/white stage altogether.

Boomer wrote:

Wulfen Andy wrote:

What a pathetic reply! <snipped out the lies and yet more pointless and boring nerd rage>

Perhaps 1, you should have looked at the title of the post and the amount of replies and put 2 and 2 together and,
2, Stop reading the posts and moved on if things like this annoy you so much!

Cheers

lol, im not the one throwing my toys out of the pram because someone on the internet points your a whingy geek. Dude i dont care about what fantastic lies you can come up with, you can be a greasy, overweight 49 year old virgin wearing your mums dress for all i care. I like everything about Games Workshop, ive been a fan since i was a small boy back in 80's. It was an expensive hobby back then. And im my humble view not much has got worse mostly only better, the paints are better, there are washes now, the brushs are better, the plastic kits are bigger and better, the codexs are bigger and better presented. Nothing you have vomitted onto this thread hasnt been said before by sweaty angry nerds like you. Infact try a thread like this on Whineseer. They love to join the G.W hating there and they they might even try and cheer you up with lies like saying your good at painting! If you keeping bashing the company that make the hobby i and lots of others love then expect the G.W lovers to bash you back! Now go get your balls out of your made up wifes purse and lets see what kind of cutting insults you can come back with.

Perhaps morons like you need to rub the two IQ points you possess and start a fire. How dare you attack me like this?

OK, seriously? Wulfen Andy, you hit the Mod alert button about Boomer's post above, but you reply like this?

First, please re-read Rule #1 for Dakka Dakka.


Back? Good. Now, on to the whole "freedom of speech" thing you've been on about. Dakka Dakka is a privately owned forum, and as such, may legally restrict its content in any way that it sees fit. Yes, even in the UK. Posting here is a privilege, and not some sort of Human Right like you seem to think it is.

This is your first warning, so other than locking this train wreck of a thread, I'm not going to take any further action.

In the future, please post politely no matter how frustrated you get with other posters.

Thank you.