The fluff of 40k often highlights the cruelty and uncaring of the universe and its uncaring nature. However, there are several characters that could be called caring about at least a certain group, such as Nurgle or Commisar Gaunt. So, in you guy's opinion, who is the most "caring" character (I.E major leaders of factions, heros, the primarchs, etc.) in the Warhammer 40k universe?

Probably Gaunt. Says he can remember the face of every soldier that's died under his command (the ones he got a chance to meet anyway).

Slaneesh, he just wants you to be happy.

The Emperor - he gave up his life so that we could prosper and survive, if thats not caring I don't know what is.

Nurgle.

They call him Papa for a reason.

KamikazeCanuck wrote:Probably Gaunt. Says he can remember the face of every soldier that's died under his command (the ones he got a chance to meet anyway).

Thats not actually Gaunt, you are thinking of Bastonne. Also he led an expedition into Nurgle territory to save one man. (He eventually shot him to prevent the spread of disease within his ranks)

Although yeah it is probably Bastonne or Gaunt, come on a Commisar that doesn't shoot his men, he has a big heart.

Addicted to Bleach wrote:

KamikazeCanuck wrote:Probably Gaunt. Says he can remember the face of every soldier that's died under his command (the ones he got a chance to meet anyway).

Thats not actually Gaunt, you are thinking of Bastonne. Also he led an expedition into Nurgle territory to save one man. (He eventually shot him to prevent the spread of disease within his ranks)

I have no idea what your talking about.

yevix wrote:The Emperor - he gave up his life so that we could prosper and survive, if thats not caring I don't know what is.

Yeah man like that one time when he killed an old man and burned down his home. Real caring guy.

Papa Nurgle. He loves all life, from the smallest bacterium to the most advanced space-faring race.

Logan Grimnar.

Strongly disagreed with the GK and Inq. on the fate of the population of Armageddon.

Ciaphas Cain.

He may care only for himself, but he really does care a lot.

Dark Eldar are pret...oh wait. That's right.

Salamander marines in general? They are described as being more 'humanitarian' than most marines.

Papa nurgle loves you all

Book characters generally, especially books by Dan Abnett. He loves to make lovey dovey Christ-like Imperials. Eisenhorn, Gaunt, etc.

English Assassin wrote:Ciaphas Cain.

He may care only for himself, but he really does care a lot.

Ha! Good one.

Harriticus wrote:Book characters generally, especially books by Dan Abnett. He loves to make lovey dovey Christ-like Imperials. Eisenhorn, Gaunt, etc.

Either your not familiar with Eisenhorn and Gaunt or Jesus.

KamikazeCanuck wrote:

Harriticus wrote:Book characters generally, especially books by Dan Abnett. He loves to make lovey dovey Christ-like Imperials. Eisenhorn, Gaunt, etc.

Either your not familiar with Eisenhorn and Gaunt or Jesus.

I've read the Eisenhorn trilogy and some of Gaunt's stuff. They came off as very honorable and nice fellows, not what you'd expect from the Imperium at all.

Tau Ethereals. annoying jerks.

The Deciever, or at least he can convinced you he cares

Commander Chenkov

CREEEEEEEEEEEEEED
I dont know why.
I just wanted to yell it...

vulkan and his salamaders.

sebastian thor

KamikazeCanuck wrote:

Harriticus wrote:Book characters generally, especially books by Dan Abnett. He loves to make lovey dovey Christ-like Imperials. Eisenhorn, Gaunt, etc.

Either your not familiar with Eisenhorn and Gaunt or Jesus.

I can't speak for Gaunt, but there is quite a bit of parallel between Jesus and Protestant interpretations of Jebus.

But, all in all, I have to say Vulkan.

I forgot that part of the bible where Jesus summarily executes soldiers for cowardice in the face of the enemy.

It got edited out, so as to keep the PG rating

Jimsolo wrote:

KamikazeCanuck wrote:

Harriticus wrote:Book characters generally, especially books by Dan Abnett. He loves to make lovey dovey Christ-like Imperials. Eisenhorn, Gaunt, etc.

Either your not familiar with Eisenhorn and Gaunt or Jesus.

I can't speak for Gaunt, but there is quite a bit of parallel between Jesus and Protestant interpretations of Jebus.

But, all in all, I have to say Vulkan.

I apologize, what I meant to say was "between Eisenhorn and Protestant interpretations of Jebus."

I never said they were the same person Kam, I said there is a quite a bit of parallel. They both sacrifice their morality, becoming condemned in order to remove a larger evil in the process. I love the sacrificial aspect of the Eisenhorn series, it's part of what makes Abnett's writing stand out so much.

Ascalam wrote:It got edited out, so as to keep the PG rating

PG rating? Between the crucifixions that Christ endured, historical accounts of battle and political battle (Jezebel, Hamen etc..), poetic story of a husband and wifes love making (see the entire song of Solomon) and numerous other varied and sundry subjects I don't believe the Bible can even remotely approach pg-13 from the R side of the rating system (its probably an R rated movie)

But to the OP. Easily papa nurgle! There is good reason why my Shadow Claw company of the Space wolves chapter now serve the TRUE allfather, spreading his bounteous love to the galaxy. And it aint just cause he gives GREAT hugs

The Old Tesatament/Torah/Quran is more of an R rating.

The New is more of a PG rating (proportionally- a few less PG bits in there, but the story as a whole is PG )

Jimsolo wrote:

Jimsolo wrote:

KamikazeCanuck wrote:

Harriticus wrote:Book characters generally, especially books by Dan Abnett. He loves to make lovey dovey Christ-like Imperials. Eisenhorn, Gaunt, etc.

Either your not familiar with Eisenhorn and Gaunt or Jesus.

I can't speak for Gaunt, but there is quite a bit of parallel between Jesus and Protestant interpretations of Jebus.

But, all in all, I have to say Vulkan.

I apologize, what I meant to say was "between Eisenhorn and Protestant interpretations of Jebus."

I never said they were the same person Kam, I said there is a quite a bit of parallel. They both sacrifice their morality, becoming condemned in order to remove a larger evil in the process. I love the sacrificial aspect of the Eisenhorn series, it's part of what makes Abnett's writing stand out so much.

Not to cause strife, but please refrain from referring to Jesus as jebus. It can be quite offensive to practitioners of the associated faith and is completely unnecessary.

KamikazeCanuck wrote:

Addicted to Bleach wrote:

KamikazeCanuck wrote:Probably Gaunt. Says he can remember the face of every soldier that's died under his command (the ones he got a chance to meet anyway).

Thats not actually Gaunt, you are thinking of Bastonne. Also he led an expedition into Nurgle territory to save one man. (He eventually shot him to prevent the spread of disease within his ranks)

I have no idea what your talking about.

Cadian chap; noble birth worked with the grunts, has a tatoo of every man lost concealed under his clothing. He makes a habit of not losing a man period. He actually did drag a man from nurgle plague territory just to execute him after saying no one gets left behind.

What book?

Codex Imperial Guard?

Oh. Yeah, I wasn't thinking of him. It was Gaunt.

It definitely applies to Gaunt as well - the books make frequent references to how he knows all of his men, to the point of knowing them by name and something about each one of them.

As said, Tu'Shan, and Salamanders in general, are way up there.

"I will steal from the plate of decadence to feed the mouths of the powerless." - Sebastian Thor

Despite being generally disliked by players, Ultramarines are probably the most "imperial" of all SM chapters, but I don't know if they got as much respect as the Salamanders.

Sisters of the Orders Hospitaller are known for being deeply compassionate about those under their care. They also build shelters for the poor and the needy.

Well the first one on the list of caring is Nurgle because he is the psychic manifestation of all caring and paternal feelings in the universe.

Next I think I would have to say the emperor. He sacrificed so much because he really cared for humanity. He made some really tough decisions but you can see how he cared when he could not really bring himself to kill Horus before being mortally wounded.

After that, I think I would have to choose Sebastian Thor, but I would be conflicted on this.

I want to add Conrad Kruze to the list (a bit far down though) because he chose to become a face of evil to try and do what was right and just for the many. He was a very tragic character.

I've got to ask: are you people serious when you mention Nurgle?

Lord Khorne He really cares about everyone! If you are dead you wont have problems anymore!

Isha. What a crybaby, but that was because she couldn't reach her children she cared so much about... And what happened to her? She got imprisoned in a cage, in the garden of a big boil. Of course, that boil cares quite a lot about her, in his own way...

Der Immolator wrote:"I will steal from the plate of decadence to feed the mouths of the powerless." - Sebastian Thor

Did he actually do it though?

There are hundreds of wuotes like that from all throughout history where some sneaky git said that sort of thing and then either did absolutely nothing about it, or did the comeplete opposite.

Making speeches of reform and social change is often a sign nothing will change, or it will get worse. (See last election in Britain as a recent example)

Der Immolator wrote:I've got to ask: are you people serious when you mention Nurgle?

I don't know about the others, but I was serious.
A common misconception is that the Chaos gods are evil, which is not true. They are merely psychic manifestations of the emotions of the living in the universe. Khorn is the good of violence and aggression, but also that of pride and honor. Slanesh is the god of sensual excess and I am inclined to say lust and love. Nurgle is the god of death/despair and caring and comfort. While Tzeech is the god of ambition and change. They all have their negative and positive aspects. Which side of those aspects is strongest depends on the emotions in the galaxy, which is why Khorns aggression and violence is the greatest out of all the gods.

Regardless though, it does not change that those entities are essentially the purest manifestation of their representative emotions. Its a bit screwed up, but blame the eldar for that if you have to.

SylvanaSekNadin wrote:

Der Immolator wrote:I've got to ask: are you people serious when you mention Nurgle?

I don't know about the others, but I was serious.
A common misconception is that the Chaos gods are evil, which is not true. They are merely psychic manifestations of the emotions of the living in the universe. Khorn is the good of violence and aggression, but also that of pride and honor. Slanesh is the god of sensual excess and I am inclined to say lust and love. Nurgle is the god of death/despair and caring and comfort. While Tzeech is the god of ambition and change. They all have their negative and positive aspects. Which side of those aspects is strongest depends on the emotions in the galaxy, which is why Khorns aggression and violence is the greatest out of all the gods.

Regardless though, it does not change that those entities are essentially the purest manifestation of their representative emotions. Its a bit screwed up, but blame the eldar for that if you have to.

Slaanesh is the God of excess. not just sexual, just any sensual experience. Or just any experience for that matter.

Nurgle is not the God of comfort and caring ffs! His aspect of 'caring' for his underlings comes in part from their joy at seeing what effects their various plagues and whatnot do to people.

Lexicanum wrote:Nurgle and his daemons, in contrast to their putrid appearance, are jovial and friendly in demeanor. His daemon servants and mortal followers usually demonstrate a disturbing joviality and joy at the pestilence that he inflicts, seeing the plagues as gifts and the cries of their victims as gratitude rather than agony. This is demonstrated on the Daemon World of Bubonicus, where an endless chain of crazed revellers circle the planet's equator in a never ending dance. He is often referred to as Grandfather Nurgle, Father Nurgle or Papa Nurgle by his followers because of his paternal nature.

The common misconception is that Papa Nurgle is not evil, he is, hes just sneaky about it In the first SW omnibus (second book), when speaking with a GUO, Ragnar comments that the friendly, jovial nature of the GUO's conversation really hides the disgust and hatred it feels for them and how it uses its language (ok, it speaks straight into their heads, but still...) and tone to ridicule them.

Tzeentch is also the God of Knowledge and learning fyi.

And we created Khorne in the Middle Ages, dont blame the Eldar

Any dark eldar, they are the 40k equivalent of the care bears!

Bwolf999 wrote:CREEEEEEEEEEEEEED
I dont know why.
I just wanted to yell it...

Although, he is noted as disliking the throw-the-infantry-at-it-with-mass-deaths tactics so beloved by other imperial Guard commanders, and will stand by his men in the heart of battle. He will also turn a blind eyes to some regulation infractions. All in all, he is a rather caring commander, and in 40k, that requires some kind of tactical ge...

CREEEEEEEEEEED!

Revenent Reiko wrote:
Nurgle is not the God of comfort and caring ffs! His aspect of 'caring' for his underlings comes in part from their joy at seeing what effects their various plagues and whatnot do to people.

Lexicanum wrote:Nurgle and his daemons, in contrast to their putrid appearance, are jovial and friendly in demeanor. His daemon servants and mortal followers usually demonstrate a disturbing joviality and joy at the pestilence that he inflicts, seeing the plagues as gifts and the cries of their victims as gratitude rather than agony. This is demonstrated on the Daemon World of Bubonicus, where an endless chain of crazed revellers circle the planet's equator in a never ending dance. He is often referred to as Grandfather Nurgle, Father Nurgle or Papa Nurgle by his followers because of his paternal nature.

The common misconception is that Papa Nurgle is not evil, he is, hes just sneaky about it In the first SW omnibus (second book), when speaking with a GUO, Ragnar comments that the friendly, jovial nature of the GUO's conversation really hides the disgust and hatred it feels for them and how it uses its language (ok, it speaks straight into their heads, but still...) and tone to ridicule them.

No Chaos god is evil. They are just manifestations of emotion. Nurgle Cares for all, especially those who are dying. The caring nature is what caused the death guard legion to turn. Nurgle being an emotional entity of comfort attempts to being peace to those who are suffering. His other aspect, that of death and decay causes some of the suffering, but he comforts all. That is the nature of his being. The Chaos gods are created by the emotions of the living, and are also thus trapped to fulfill those roles. Each god is an extreme compartmentalized part of our own human nature.

Also, Khorn, Nurgle and Tzeech would have been around since the Old Ones fought the Necrons, long before humanity was around. They are manifestation of the emotions that all the currently living races then, especially the Eldar with their high psychic load, would have created. However, their strength and influence would probably have been dramatically decreased.

Papa Nurgle.

SylvanaSekNadin wrote:

Revenent Reiko wrote:
Nurgle is not the God of comfort and caring ffs! His aspect of 'caring' for his underlings comes in part from their joy at seeing what effects their various plagues and whatnot do to people.

Lexicanum wrote:Nurgle and his daemons, in contrast to their putrid appearance, are jovial and friendly in demeanor. His daemon servants and mortal followers usually demonstrate a disturbing joviality and joy at the pestilence that he inflicts, seeing the plagues as gifts and the cries of their victims as gratitude rather than agony. This is demonstrated on the Daemon World of Bubonicus, where an endless chain of crazed revellers circle the planet's equator in a never ending dance. He is often referred to as Grandfather Nurgle, Father Nurgle or Papa Nurgle by his followers because of his paternal nature.

The common misconception is that Papa Nurgle is not evil, he is, hes just sneaky about it In the first SW omnibus (second book), when speaking with a GUO, Ragnar comments that the friendly, jovial nature of the GUO's conversation really hides the disgust and hatred it feels for them and how it uses its language (ok, it speaks straight into their heads, but still...) and tone to ridicule them.

No Chaos god is evil. They are just manifestations of emotion. Nurgle Cares for all, especially those who are dying. The caring nature is what caused the death guard legion to turn. Nurgle being an emotional entity of comfort attempts to being peace to those who are suffering. His other aspect, that of death and decay causes some of the suffering, but he comforts all. That is the nature of his being. The Chaos gods are created by the emotions of the living, and are also thus trapped to fulfill those roles. Each god is an extreme compartmentalized part of our own human nature.

Also, Khorn, Nurgle and Tzeech would have been around since the Old Ones fought the Necrons, long before humanity was around. They are manifestation of the emotions that all the currently living races then, especially the Eldar with their high psychic load, would have created. However, their strength and influence would probably have been dramatically decreased.

Yes, they are manifestations of emotion....all the evil emotions (although granted they do all have a 'lighter' side as well).

The Death Guard turned to Nurgle out of hopelessness for their condition, they turned to him out of despair not for a cuddle. I am not saying Nurgle doesnt care for those he inflicts with his various plagues/diseases, but it is a dark, morbid care grown from the heart of an evil monstrosity that awaits the destruction and final degredation of all things. (btw, im quite proud of that sentence )

It has been stated that Khorne was 'born' during the Middle Ages of Terra (Earth), and Nurgle during the Black Death and i cant remember when Tzeentch was created/born, but it was another milestone incident in Earths history IIRC, maybe someone else can fill in that blank please.

While it is true that the Eldar would aso have helped shape these beings with their emotional input into the Warp, quite a lot of what they were doing went on to create Slaanesh.

P.s. The Chaos Gods are evil. For some reason that needs clarifying.

There is a chinese saying which roughly translates to: To chide is to care, To hit is to love. so I guess Khorne, seeing what he did to Skarbrand.
On a more related topic, Gaunt would appear that he genuinely cares about his charges the most.

SylvanaSekNadin wrote:No Chaos god is evil. They are just manifestations of emotion.

They appear to be sapient, therefore they are evil. I judge others not by their own morals, but by own. Few evil men view themselves as evil, but that does no mean that they are not (assuming you even believe in evil).

Revenent Reiko wrote:
It has been stated that Khorne was 'born' during the Middle Ages of Terra (Earth), and Nurgle during the Black Death and i cant remember when Tzeentch was created/born, but it was another milestone incident in Earths history IIRC, maybe someone else can fill in that blank please.

I've read that Tzeentch was born during the Renaissance or some such, but I'm not entirely sure about that. While the Chaos Gods may have awoken at those times, it is highly unlikely that humanity had any significant influence on them (considering the Eldar required a vast empire, a more psychically attuned nature and a complete devolution into decadence to do so - humanity in the current 40K likely has less influence on the Warp than the Eldar Empire did.)

SomeRandomEvilGuy wrote:While the Chaos Gods may have awoken at those times, it is highly unlikely that humanity had any significant influence on them (consideing the Eldar required a vast empire, a more psychically attuned nature and a complete devolution into decadence to do so - humanity in the current 40K likely has less influence on the Warp than the Eldar Empire did.)

Maybe the strength of human emotions is to blame.

Now, this is actually the first time I heard about the birthdates of the other three Chaos Gods, but if that is true the above might be a viable, if slightly arrogant explanation. It would also fit in with my pet theory that a Living Saint is created by the same means: the vast amount of emotion unleashed in times of great need, such as in a desparate last stand during an Imperial crusade.
It stands to reason that humanity would not be the only source of the Chaos Gods, but they may well have been the primary catalyst (except in the case of Slaanesh), explaining why these Gods have popped up in these notably fitting eras.

Crassus Armoured Assault Transport loves all.

Lynata wrote:

SomeRandomEvilGuy wrote:While the Chaos Gods may have awoken at those times, it is highly unlikely that humanity had any significant influence on them (consideing the Eldar required a vast empire, a more psychically attuned nature and a complete devolution into decadence to do so - humanity in the current 40K likely has less influence on the Warp than the Eldar Empire did.)

Maybe the strength of human emotions is to blame.

Now, this is actually the first time I heard about the birthdates of the other three Chaos Gods, but if that is true the above might be a viable, if slightly arrogant explanation. It would also fit in with my pet theory that a Living Saint is created by the same means: the vast amount of emotion unleashed in times of great need, such as in a desparate last stand during an Imperial crusade.
It stands to reason that humanity would not be the only source of the Chaos Gods, but they may well have been the primary catalyst (except in the case of Slaanesh), explaining why these Gods have popped up in these notably fitting eras.

Yes, we are to blame:

Lexicanum wrote:The rise of Chaos and the first three Chaos Gods, as described, seems to correspond to the development to humanity, implying that Mankind, of all the sentient species, were primarily responsible for the disharmonising of the Warp and the birth of the first three Chaos Gods. Although, without question, all sentient species played a role in the birth of the Chaos Gods, it seems that mankind has an especially close relationship with Chaos, or that mankind's nature is particularly aggressive and unstable.

Commissar Hugs!

Pic is broken.

The Emperor of Mankind.

Without him Mankind would fall prey to everyone after the Fall of the Eldar.

He gave us technology, his army's to protect us and teach us to first put logic ahead of superstition.

And in the end he made the ultimate sacrifice for us all, so that our race can continue to exist.

If that is not caring then I don't know what it is.

Coolyo294 wrote:Pic is broken.

Should be fixed.

Der Immolator wrote:I've got to ask: are you people serious when you mention Nurgle?

Absolutely. Nurgle cares about and loves everyone and everything. His plagues and poxes are viewed as gifts, and he views your suffering and despair as thanks. Nurgle isn't bound by the same logic or morality of human beings.

SylvanaSekNadin wrote:Also, Khorn, Nurgle and Tzeech would have been around since the Old Ones fought the Necrons, long before humanity was around. They are manifestation of the emotions that all the currently living races then, especially the Eldar with their high psychic load, would have created. However, their strength and influence would probably have been dramatically decreased.

Chaos didn't even exist during the War in Heaven.

Revenent Reiko wrote:Yes, they are manifestations of emotion....all the evil emotions (although granted they do all have a 'lighter' side as well).

Honor, bravery, hope, determination, and love are evil emotions?

The Chaos Gods aren't evil, they don't even have free will, they are bound by the emotions of morality, completely defined by mortals.

Brother Coa wrote:The Emperor of Mankind.

Without him Mankind would fall prey to everyone after the Fall of the Eldar.

He gave us technology, his army's to protect us and teach us to first put logic ahead of superstition.

And in the end he made the ultimate sacrifice for us all, so that our race can continue to exist.

If that is not caring then I don't know what it is.

The Emperor is one of the worst humans to ever live in 40k.

The Chaos Gods have free will. They decided to turn Horus. They actively blocked the Emperor's foresight and planned the heresy. The spend most of their time battling each other over petty issues.

Void__Dragon wrote:

Der Immolator wrote:I've got to ask: are you people serious when you mention Nurgle?

Absolutely. Nurgle cares about and loves everyone and everything. His plagues and poxes are viewed as gifts, and he views your suffering and despair as thanks. Nurgle isn't bound by the same logic or morality of human beings.

SylvanaSekNadin wrote:Also, Khorn, Nurgle and Tzeech would have been around since the Old Ones fought the Necrons, long before humanity was around. They are manifestation of the emotions that all the currently living races then, especially the Eldar with their high psychic load, would have created. However, their strength and influence would probably have been dramatically decreased.

Chaos didn't even exist during the War in Heaven.

Revenent Reiko wrote:Yes, they are manifestations of emotion....all the evil emotions (although granted they do all have a 'lighter' side as well).

Honor, bravery, hope, determination, and love are evil emotions?

The Chaos Gods aren't evil, they don't even have free will, they are bound by the emotions of morality, completely defined by mortals.

Well done on not reading the rest of the sentence you quoted....or what i was arguing against, we had already mentioned the good emotions linked with the Chaos Gods.

And the Chaos Gods are evil, why do some people not get this?

You say they dont have free will? Well their entire existence is based on the strength of the negative emotions prevalent during their 'birth', and are therefore ruled by these emotions (while also catering to/ feeding off of other emotions as well), and are evil. They are defined by their greater parts, which are evil.

SylvanaSekNadin wrote:Well the first one on the list of caring is Nurgle because he is the psychic manifestation of all caring and paternal feelings in the universe.

Nurgle is the god of despair, and in despair we seek out comfort in parental / god figures; he is not the manifestation of caring and lovey-dovey


Automatically Appended Next Post:

SylvanaSekNadin wrote:

Revenent Reiko wrote:
Nurgle is not the God of comfort and caring ffs! His aspect of 'caring' for his underlings comes in part from their joy at seeing what effects their various plagues and whatnot do to people.

Lexicanum wrote:Nurgle and his daemons, in contrast to their putrid appearance, are jovial and friendly in demeanor. His daemon servants and mortal followers usually demonstrate a disturbing joviality and joy at the pestilence that he inflicts, seeing the plagues as gifts and the cries of their victims as gratitude rather than agony. This is demonstrated on the Daemon World of Bubonicus, where an endless chain of crazed revellers circle the planet's equator in a never ending dance. He is often referred to as Grandfather Nurgle, Father Nurgle or Papa Nurgle by his followers because of his paternal nature.

The common misconception is that Papa Nurgle is not evil, he is, hes just sneaky about it In the first SW omnibus (second book), when speaking with a GUO, Ragnar comments that the friendly, jovial nature of the GUO's conversation really hides the disgust and hatred it feels for them and how it uses its language (ok, it speaks straight into their heads, but still...) and tone to ridicule them.

The caring nature is what caused the death guard legion to turn.

Nurgle's nature had nothing to do with the Guard changing; Mortarion sacrificed the legions freedom so they wouldn't have to endure the pain wrought by Typhus and his trap

Revenent Reiko wrote:
And the Chaos Gods are evil, why do some people not get this?

Well because some people have their own believes on how should things work. And to some people - Chaos isn't evil at all - it is in fact our salvation to be tortured to death, and then be tortured for all eternity in death.

In that case, when i die don't sign me up for Salvation

I'm tempted to say papa Nurgle, but then I remembered that he tests all of his viruses/toxins on an eldar goddess... and on his subjects...

papathrax wrote:Tau Ethereals. annoying jerks.

I agree 100%. My friend plays tau, so I ended up reading his dex at some time or another...

Still, they are probably the kindest leaders/people in general.

Lorgar. He braved the Eye of Terror before the Heresy to find hope for humanity. He just came out a little different.

Magnus hasn't been mentioned yet and I would rank him as he was portrayed in "Thousand Sons" as a moral individual, albeit misguided.

Rennoc215 wrote:I'm tempted to say papa Nurgle, but then I remembered that he tests all of his viruses/toxins on an eldar goddess... and on his subjects...

papathrax wrote:Tau Ethereals. annoying jerks.

I agree 100%. My friend plays tau, so I ended up reading his dex at some time or another...

Still, they are probably the kindest leaders/people in general.

You must not have seen the story where an ethereal orders the railgun into production even after seeing it kill the tester. He comes off quite cold.

Lynata wrote:Maybe the strength of human emotions is to blame.

Except Eldar emotions are much stronger and keenly felt than Human emotions.

It stands to reason that humanity would not be the only source of the Chaos Gods, but they may well have been the primary catalyst (except in the case of Slaanesh), explaining why these Gods have popped up in these notably fitting eras.

One planet of Psychically weak beings (aside from the Shaman, who were gone by that point anyway; Psychically merged into the Emperor) being the primary catalyst for three Chaos Gods? That makes no sense in the context of 40K. Far greater massacres occurred millenia previously by far more Psychic species'.

Revenent Reiko wrote:Yes, we are to blame:

"The rise of Chaos and the first three Chaos Gods, as described, seems to correspond to the development to humanity, implying that Mankind"

That's conjecture and nothing more. Not only that, but it makes no sense for Mankind to be primarily responsible. Games Workshop may once have been leaning in that direction, but with the development the background has had it would no longer work.

Revenent Reiko wrote:Well done on not reading the rest of the sentence you quoted....or what i was arguing against, we had already mentioned the good emotions linked with the Chaos Gods.

And the Chaos Gods are evil, why do some people not get this?

You say they dont have free will? Well their entire existence is based on the strength of the negative emotions prevalent during their 'birth', and are therefore ruled by these emotions (while also catering to/ feeding off of other emotions as well), and are evil. They are defined by their greater parts, which are evil.

I read your entire post actually.

Because that without free will can't be constrained to human morality? Then of course there is the fact that mortals are like insects to them at best, more like bacteria actually. Them affecting humans is like spraying disinfectant on a window for us. Like Cthulhu, really.

Slaanesh is the only Chaos God that was born quickly, the others formed and were born over time, so I don't see how what you are claiming can be true.

Tzeentch is so random, illogical, and nonsensical that it falls well outside of human notions of morality, and in a more twisted sense so does Nurgle, in that his atrocities are committed from love. And some random Great Unclean One from the Space Wolf Omnibus and Nurgle are not synonymous, the Daemons of Chaos are explicitly capable of independent thought from their masters. Khorne, eh. Khorne used to have good qualities, but not so much anymore.

Don't get me wrong, the vast majority of Chaos Cultists/Marines and Daemons are evil, but I don't think of the Gods as such, they are too far removed from mortal morality and their freedom of will is suspect IMHO.

Garviel Loken and Saul Tarvitz for pre-heresy characters.

SomeRandomEvilGuy wrote:

Lynata wrote:Maybe the strength of human emotions is to blame.

Except Eldar emotions are much stronger and keenly felt than Human emotions.

They are? I always took the current Eldar to be more calm and reasonable, basically "space high elves" or the Vulcans of 40k.

I'm not an expert on the mind of Eldar and have read little stuff about them, though, so I could be completely wrong about it. Could anyone elaborate? Normally I'd not be that interested in a xeno race, but this is a pretty major thing and I at least want to get the basics about them right!

SomeRandomEvilGuy wrote:One planet of Psychically weak beings (aside from the Shaman, who were gone by that point anyway; Psychically merged into the Emperor) being the primary catalyst for three Chaos Gods? That makes no sense in the context of 40K. Far greater massacres occurred millenia previously by far more Psychic species'.

Such as? Aside from the birth of Slaanesh, of course.

I'd also not be sure if the level of psychic potential is important for "channeling" emotions into the warp. It could well only matter that the potential is there at all. Daemons don't only haunt psykers, after all - and it may be important to note that the level of daemonic incursions in the Imperium has increased remarkably in 999.M41. Perhaps because so many people are afraid of what will come? Basically, like a self-fulfilling prophecy, triggered by the collective emotions of the population of a million worlds. You worry that something bad will happen -> veil weakens -> something bad happens (daemons show up). At least I'd find that more viable than the Chaos Gods caring about some date on a human calendar.

thakabalpuphorsefishguy wrote:
Not to cause strife, but please refrain from referring to Jesus as jebus. It can be quite offensive to practitioners of the associated faith and is completely unnecessary.

Am I missing something? I thought that word came from Homer Simpson saying "I cant be a missionary, I dont even believe in Jebus!"

How on earth is that offensive?

Lynata wrote:

SomeRandomEvilGuy wrote:

Lynata wrote:Maybe the strength of human emotions is to blame.

Except Eldar emotions are much stronger and keenly felt than Human emotions.

They are? I always took the current Eldar to be more calm and reasonable, basically "space high elves" or the Vulcans of 40k.

I'm not an expert on the mind of Eldar and have read little stuff about them, though, so I could be completely wrong about it. Could anyone elaborate? Normally I'd not be that interested in a xeno race, but this is a pretty major thing and I at least want to get the basics about them right!

Ah, but they are like the Vulcans in that they've learned how to control their deep passions. Without balance an Eldar can quickly destroy him or herself. Craftworlders developed the Paths to control their nature and avoid what doomed their race before. Most of my information comes from the Lexicanum but whenever I see anything about the Eldar mentality elsewhere it mentions their intensified emotional state.

Lynata wrote:Such as? Aside from the birth of Slaanesh, of course.

The war against the Necrons? The battles the Eldar would've fought against the Orks and potentially other species' until they attained their supremacy. The numbers that died in battle (or plotted, or fell ill) during the Middle Ages on Earth pale in comparison to that of the starfaring species'.

I'd also not be sure if the level of psychic potential is important for "channeling" emotions into the warp. It could well only matter that the potential is there at all.

Maybe, but the Eldar would've vastly outnumbered the Humans then anyway, and many other alien species would have been doing the same thing as humanity.

Daemons don't only haunt psykers, after all - and it may be important to note that the level of daemonic incursions in the Imperium has increased remarkably in 999.M41.

Isn't the number of Psykers also greatly increasing?

Daemons can only cross over when the Warp barrier is weakened or they're summoned (or bound within an object). Non-Psychic Humans just by feeling emotion can't summon forth Daemons as far as I know.

Void__Dragon wrote:I read your entire post actually.

It didnt appear that way to me, my apologies for the assumption then.

Because that without free will can't be constrained to human morality? Then of course there is the fact that mortals are like insects to them at best, more like bacteria actually. Them affecting humans is like spraying disinfectant on a window for us. Like Cthulhu, really.

im not entirely sure this makes sense...

Slaanesh is the only Chaos God that was born quickly, the others formed and were born over time, so I don't see how what you are claiming can be true.

Tzeentch is so random, illogical, and nonsensical that it falls well outside of human notions of morality, and in a more twisted sense so does Nurgle, in that his atrocities are committed from love. And some random Great Unclean One from the Space Wolf Omnibus and Nurgle are not synonymous, the Daemons of Chaos are explicitly capable of independent thought from their masters. Khorne, eh. Khorne used to have good qualities, but not so much anymore.

Nurgle's atrocities arent committed out of love. They are done because Nurgle wants to destroy everything, for the whole universe (Galaxy at least) to rot and decay and fall under his sway.

Not true, GUOs, uniquely out of Greater Daemons, are actually a small part of Nurgle himself, not another Daemon grown strong in the influence of one of the Gods like Bloodthirsters or KoSs.

They have moved away from Khorne's honourable martial aspect yes, but they havent said he doesnt still stand for them. Much as i hate to reference it due to the absolute fallacy that is the rest of the story, the main enemy in the 3rd GK book is an honourable (albeit crazy killer) guy in his own way. The crazy 'BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD' comes later...

Don't get me wrong, the vast majority of Chaos Cultists/Marines and Daemons are evil, but I don't think of the Gods as such, they are too far removed from mortal morality and their freedom of will is suspect IMHO.

lack of free will does not mean they are not evil, it just means they 'cant help it' (which is BS, but kind of makes sense)


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Brother Coa wrote:

Revenent Reiko wrote:
And the Chaos Gods are evil, why do some people not get this?

Well because some people have their own believes on how should things work. And to some people - Chaos isn't evil at all - it is in fact our salvation to be tortured to death, and then be tortured for all eternity in death.

And they are deemed crazy, no?

SomeRandomEvilGuy wrote:The war against the Necrons?

Well, that one had other Gods around that might have quelled any newcomers.

Pointing at the Eldar would seem valid, though, if they're really as emotional as y'all say.

SomeRandomEvilGuy wrote:Non-Psychic Humans just by feeling emotion can't summon forth Daemons as far as I know.

Hmm, that might be worth further research. In theory, every human might be a latent psyker somehow. It is, after all, a racial thing. Some just have more of it than others.

Not sure on that, though. It just seems like too big a coincidence that those eras on Earth fit nicely to the births of the various Chaos Gods. That said, one could assume that the eras themselves were affected by these births instead of the other way around?
I don't have the "Realms of Chaos" book myself, maybe it is better explained in there.

Lynata wrote:Well, that one had other Gods around that might have quelled any newcomers.

Slaanesh when born had the power to consume the Eldar Gods when they were not distracted by fighting a war of survival. The C'tan could not have intervened in the Warp, so that only leaves the Old Ones, and I've no idea about their power to influence the Warp directly.

Hmm, that might be worth further research. In theory, every human might be a latent psyker somehow. It is, after all, a racial thing. Some just have more of it than others.

Every Human has a soul and so will minutely affect the Warp if I recall correctly, but I don't believe it would be sufficient to actually bring forth Daemons.

It just seems like too big a coincidence that those eras on Earth fit nicely to the births of the various Chaos Gods.

My personal feeling is that Games Workshop was thinking that possibly humanity was the primary catalyst, but that they have since moved away from that as it now makes little sense. If humanity was the primary catalyst in the same way as the Eldar, one would assume that a similar occurrence to the Eye of Terror opening would have happened.

That said, one could assume that the eras themselves were affected by these births instead of the other way around?

That's an interesting theory and quite plausible, although I'm rather disinclined to think that the Middle Ages were vastly more violent than other eras in human history. Same with the Renaissance and plotting (if it was indeed the Renaissance, I'm not sure if I'm remembering that correctly.

Void__Dragon wrote:

yevix wrote:The Emperor - he gave up his life so that we could prosper and survive, if thats not caring I don't know what is.

Yeah man like that one time when he killed an old man and burned down his home. Real caring guy.

Papa Nurgle. He loves all life, from the smallest bacterium to the most advanced space-faring race.

Oh yeah, you mean that old guy that ended up running into the burning church when he was promised a new life?

Ok caring characters in WH40k lets see

first on the list is the entirety of the Salamanders chapter. The chapter believes "the strong should protect the weak" because of their home planet. They are treated as more then heroes when they returned to Armageddon, more then even the blood angels and ultramarines. Tu'shan the chapter master even came to blows with a captain of the marines molevolent after the latter ordered an artillery strike into a refugee camp after Orks breached the perimeter.

The Space Wolves chapter is next as they have been known to fight impossible odds to protect Imperial citizens and planets. Grimnar the wolf lord opposed the GK and Inquisitions quarantine and sterilisation of the armageddon populace during the first war and even with the threat of being declared excommunicatis traitoris, the space wolves managed to help many of the populace to escape the planet (ofcourse these survivors were hunted down and killed by the inquisition and GK)

of course heres a list of people that will never be on this list

anyone who is not the above lol

Nurgle.

They don't call him 'Papa Nurgle' for nothing, you know. He's actually a pretty decent chap.

Nurgle is caring but his caring is twisted being the god of despair and pestellance.

In Chaos Daemons it describes a war between Slaanesh and Nurgle as Slaanesh was keeping an Eldar goddess prisoner and her pleas for help was enough to move Nurgle (even big bloated fat guys need love lol).

KamikazeCanuck wrote:

Addicted to Bleach wrote:

KamikazeCanuck wrote:Probably Gaunt. Says he can remember the face of every soldier that's died under his command (the ones he got a chance to meet anyway).

Thats not actually Gaunt, you are thinking of Bastonne. Also he led an expedition into Nurgle territory to save one man. (He eventually shot him to prevent the spread of disease within his ranks)

I have no idea what your talking about.

Bastonne is an upgrade sergeant for Vets, while bastonne is a great guy who remembers all the men he lost in his squad, Gaunt has memorized an entire regiment and kept them all, both alive and dead, in his memories.

I don't see how people are saying the Emperor is caring. It was actually because he insulted Lorgar for not taking planets quickly enough in the Great Crusade that caused the Word Bearers to worship Chaos. The Emperor was not really that much of a caring chap...

Kharn. Just because he's such a great guy.

Jokes aside, i'd cast my vote for the Salamanders. They care about the citizenry of the planet and not to mention they actually are allowed to stay with their families and visit them from time to time after they become Space Marines from what i've heard.

nomotog wrote:

Rennoc215 wrote:I'm tempted to say papa Nurgle, but then I remembered that he tests all of his viruses/toxins on an eldar goddess... and on his subjects...

papathrax wrote:Tau Ethereals. annoying jerks.

I agree 100%. My friend plays tau, so I ended up reading his dex at some time or another...

Still, they are probably the kindest leaders/people in general.

You must not have seen the story where an ethereal orders the railgun into production even after seeing it kill the tester. He comes off quite cold.

Not cold, just for lack of a better phrase, doing what was necessary for the Greater Good. If a few Fire Warriors died testing a new weapon that could save the lives of colonies, wouldn't it be worth it?

orz192 wrote:Magnus hasn't been mentioned yet and I would rank him as he was portrayed in "Thousand Sons" as a moral individual, albeit misguided.

I think Magnus loses as he pretty much let his home world get destroyed and then was so far removed from his legion that he didn't do anything to overcome the flesh change once the remaining 1,000 sons were swept off to the sorcerer's world.

Good chap but his caring got broken once he nuked the emperor's defenses.

Lynata wrote:Well, that one had other Gods around that might have quelled any newcomers.

Pointing at the Eldar would seem valid, though, if they're really as emotional as y'all say.

The Old Ones and their child races (Including Eldar) warring with the Necrons and their C'tan masters is what created Chaos, before that the Warp was a calm, decidedly non-dangerous place. The desperation of the Old Ones, who were nearing extinction, altered the Warp into the place we know today.

Also, on the emotions of Eldar, the Craftworld Eldar are so subdued because they are so emotional. Eldar emotions have a much wider range than human ones, and Eldar have to keep those emotions in check, lest they be "locked" into one Path. This is the story behind Exarchs, who on the Path of the Warrior became so emotionally invested in the thrill of battle that it is all they can do. This is also the story behind the Dark Eldar, sadistic tortue isn't just a hobby for them, it's a psychological need, it's literally an addiction for them.


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Revenent Reiko wrote:It didnt appear that way to me, my apologies for the assumption then.

Not a problem, apologies for failing to convey that I had read your post.

im not entirely sure this makes sense...

The Chaos Gods perceive reality on a much higher scale than mortals do, their perception of the Immaterium and Materium greater than any mortal, and their existence is inarguably above mortals. Judging them via mortal morality isn't really possible.

Nurgle's atrocities arent committed out of love. They are done because Nurgle wants to destroy everything, for the whole universe (Galaxy at least) to rot and decay and fall under his sway.

What makes you say that? I literally have never heard that anywhere. Since the codex makes it clear that Nurgle is a god of "Life and laughter," rather than a "morose purveyer of despair and gloom." Nurgle's creed is that the greatest inspiration comes in the darkest moments, and that in times of crisis mortals are truly tested and driven to excel. It's very twisted, but there is no malice behind it.

Not true, GUOs, uniquely out of Greater Daemons, are actually a small part of Nurgle himself, not another Daemon grown strong in the influence of one of the Gods like Bloodthirsters or KoSs.

All Greater Daemons are created from the body of their God, I'm not sure what you're saying here. Ku'gath the Plaguefather in particular explicitly is capable of independent though from Nurgle, while Nurgle just laughed and wasn't bothered by Ku'gath drinking his potent disease, Ku'gath felt bad about it and now tries to recreate the disease. Beyond that, the codex refers to Daemons as "static bubbles" or something in the Warp, not changed by it. Do you have a source for saying that GUOs are merely extensions of Nurgle himself?

They have moved away from Khorne's honourable martial aspect yes, but they havent said he doesnt still stand for them. Much as i hate to reference it due to the absolute fallacy that is the rest of the story, the main enemy in the 3rd GK book is an honourable (albeit crazy killer) guy in his own way. The crazy 'BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD' comes later...

That's pretty good to hear. I probably wouldn't hate Khorne as much if they emphasized that he was more than just a raving simpleton who would be just as happy with you killing chickens as you would warriors.

lack of free will does not mean they are not evil, it just means they 'cant help it' (which is BS, but kind of makes sense)

Eh, I disagree personally, but respect your opinion.


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calgar 2.5 wrote:Oh yeah, you mean that old guy that ended up running into the burning church when he was promised a new life?

Yeah dawg, a new life of oppression, and being forced to watch all he worked for in his life burned in the name of a cause he couldn't believe in.

Oh, and of course there is the Emperor's brutal chastising of Lorgar's Imperial Cult, something he should have nipped in the bed decades ago, but chose not to. Something Lorgar points out.

I'd probably vote for Gaunt. I would say Nurgle, but I think the same argument for why the Chaos gods aren't truly evil applies to this also: they are operating on a level completely incomprehensible to us. Whoever said it earlier was completely right in that their actions are equivalent to us using an antibacterial wipe. To the bacteria, we are cruel and malevolent beings that can end their lives on a whim, but to us they are of absolutely no consequence because they operate on a level so far below us.

OK think about this if "papa" nurgle is such a good person why does he go out of his way to make people poop there pants. i mean i wouldn't feel cared for if i was dying in a pile of my own feces?!!!!!


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And i vote for gaunt he's the nicest person.

Gabriel Angelos from DoW, lets you know that space marines are still human, how they still greave and regret.

CageUF wrote:

orz192 wrote:Magnus hasn't been mentioned yet and I would rank him as he was portrayed in "Thousand Sons" as a moral individual, albeit misguided.

I think Magnus loses as he pretty much let his home world get destroyed and then was so far removed from his legion that he didn't do anything to overcome the flesh change once the remaining 1,000 sons were swept off to the sorcerer's world.

Good chap but his caring got broken once he nuked the emperor's defenses.

I didn't mean he was the most caring, but he did care at least for a time. Just no one had mentioned him yet
and I thought him worthy of some consideration.

Void__Dragon wrote:The Chaos Gods perceive reality on a much higher scale than mortals do, their perception of the Immaterium and Materium greater than any mortal, and their existence is inarguably above mortals. Judging them via mortal morality isn't really possible.

We however, are mortal, and are therefore unable to judge anything outside of our own perspective.

What makes you say that? I literally have never heard that anywhere. Since the codex makes it clear that Nurgle is a god of "Life and laughter," rather than a "morose purveyer of despair and gloom." Nurgle's creed is that the greatest inspiration comes in the darkest moments, and that in times of crisis mortals are truly tested and driven to excel. It's very twisted, but there is no malice behind it.

This:

Lexicanum wrote:
Nurgle is also the Lord of All, because all things, no matter how solid and permanent they seem, are liable to physical corruption:
"Indeed, the very process of construction and creation foreshadow destruction and decay. The palace of today is tomorrow's ruin, the maiden of the morning is the crone of the night, and the hope of a moment is but the foundation stone of everlasting regret."1
All gods are embodiments of the hopes, fears and other strong emotions and concepts generated by the mortal races. In Nurgle's case, the source of power is the livings' fear of inevitable death and disease, and their unconscious response to that fear, which is the "power of life", the motivating power of mankind and other races.

The laughter is his perverse enjoyment of the inevitable downfall of all things (from what i can see at least), and the 'life' is the flipside of what actually gives him power....

All Greater Daemons are created from the body of their God, I'm not sure what you're saying here. Ku'gath the Plaguefather in particular explicitly is capable of independent though from Nurgle, while Nurgle just laughed and wasn't bothered by Ku'gath drinking his potent disease, Ku'gath felt bad about it and now tries to recreate the disease. Beyond that, the codex refers to Daemons as "static bubbles" or something in the Warp, not changed by it. Do you have a source for saying that GUOs are merely extensions of Nurgle himself?

Lexicanum wrote:The Greater Daemons of Nurgle are the Great Unclean Ones, massive, bloated disease-carriers, usually carrying a blade known as a Plague Sword into battle. These massive, rusted blades are said to be dipped in the foul pus and contagion at the base of Nurgle's throne.
Great Unclean Ones are unlike the Great Daemons of other Powers, in that where the latter are essentially just immensely powerful servants, the Great Unclean Ones are each facsimiles of Nurgle himself, both physically and in terms of their personality. In other words, every Great Unclean One is also Nurgle. Thus these followers often refer to these daemons as 'Nurgle' or 'Father Nurgle'.

That's pretty good to hear. I probably wouldn't hate Khorne as much if they emphasized that he was more than just a raving simpleton who would be just as happy with you killing chickens as you would warriors.

They do occasionally put in the honour/courage aspect of Khorne (makes you rethink Ultramarines eh? ) still ,not very often though which is a shame.

Eh, I disagree personally, but respect your opinion.

Fair play, i respect our differences of opinion too

English Assassin wrote:Ciaphas Cain.

He may care only for himself, but he really does care a lot.

Yeap! I love this guy and i honestly think somewhere deep down he does care.

SomeRandomEvilGuy wrote:

Revenent Reiko wrote:
It has been stated that Khorne was 'born' during the Middle Ages of Terra (Earth), and Nurgle during the Black Death and i cant remember when Tzeentch was created/born, but it was another milestone incident in Earths history IIRC, maybe someone else can fill in that blank please.

I've read that Tzeentch was born during the Renaissance or some such, but I'm not entirely sure about that. While the Chaos Gods may have awoken at those times, it is highly unlikely that humanity had any significant influence on them (considering the Eldar required a vast empire, a more psychically attuned nature and a complete devolution into decadence to do so - humanity in the current 40K likely has less influence on the Warp than the Eldar Empire did.)

So the Chaos gods were all created by... Europeans? These massive monolithic galaxy-spanning supreme beings who rule over an entire dimension were all spawned by one small group of people in a tiny corner of a single planet? Okay...

I mean, we all do realize that during the entire period in question China was the largest most powerful civilization on the planet, right?

Abadabadoobaddon wrote:

SomeRandomEvilGuy wrote:

Revenent Reiko wrote:
It has been stated that Khorne was 'born' during the Middle Ages of Terra (Earth), and Nurgle during the Black Death and i cant remember when Tzeentch was created/born, but it was another milestone incident in Earths history IIRC, maybe someone else can fill in that blank please.

I've read that Tzeentch was born during the Renaissance or some such, but I'm not entirely sure about that. While the Chaos Gods may have awoken at those times, it is highly unlikely that humanity had any significant influence on them (considering the Eldar required a vast empire, a more psychically attuned nature and a complete devolution into decadence to do so - humanity in the current 40K likely has less influence on the Warp than the Eldar Empire did.)

So the Chaos gods were all created by... Europeans? These massive monolithic galaxy-spanning supreme beings who rule over an entire dimension were all spawned by one small group of people in a tiny corner of a single planet? Okay...

I mean, we all do realize that during the entire period in question China was the largest most powerful civilization on the planet, right?

Yes, WH40k was written by Europeans....(Brits)

My point is that there were no "Middle Ages of Terra" - they were not even a global phenomenon.

Abadabadoobaddon wrote:My point is that there were no "Middle Ages of Terra" - they were not even a global phenomenon.

*closes ears* I can't hear you over my Eurocentrism lalala-

I'm pretty sure Reiko understood what you meant, hence the wink emote. It was a joke about who created the Chaos Gods (literally, GW).

The earth-born Chaos God portion reads like so much ancient mythology narm born out of human arrogance. If it turns out they're a multigalatic phenomena then the importance of (European) humanity in their creation becomes even sillier.

Glowcat wrote:

Abadabadoobaddon wrote:My point is that there were no "Middle Ages of Terra" - they were not even a global phenomenon.

*closes ears* I can't hear you over my Eurocentrism lalala-

I'm pretty sure Reiko understood what you meant, hence the wink emote. It was a joke about who created the Chaos Gods (literally, GW).

The earth-born Chaos God portion reads like so much ancient mythology narm born out of human arrogance. If it turns out they're a multigalatic phenomena then the importance of (European) humanity in their creation becomes even sillier.

I did underdtand, thank you Glowcat.

Its exactly as described, European (English) writers --> European (English) Importance in story. GW didnt release 40k across the world all at the same time did it? So it makes sense that everytihng would be base don 'our' (European) timeline wouldnt it?

well i dont know how people will receive this but, i do believe genestealers are the most caring, they have a whole cult dedicated to TAKE CARE of their offsprings, till they become purestrains and repeat the process.

They have a patriarch who look for all his children and each generation have their own job in the cicle of bringing to life the best of the best from the genestealers

Khorne and Slaneesh all the want is bloody sex :L

Feliw wrote:well i dont know how people will receive this but, i do believe genestealers are the most caring, they have a whole cult dedicated to TAKE CARE of their offsprings, till they become purestrains and repeat the process.

They have a patriarch who look for all his children and each generation have their own job in the cicle of bringing to life the best of the best from the genestealers

That doesn't mean they're "caring" in the sense of being compassionate, just thatthey want to propagate their species and make it strong.

The Emperor, Definitely.
Because it shows his unlimited compassion that he sacrificed himself for humanity
and left the Astartes to defend it. Because we all know that the Astartes werent meant
to be leaders; they were left as the last defense against all the horrors of the galaxy, and the
Emperor knew it

Beastmaster wrote:The Emperor, Definitely.
Because it shows his unlimited compassion that he sacrificed himself for humanity
and left the Astartes to defend it. Because we all know that the Astartes werent meant
to be leaders; they were left as the last defense against all the horrors of the galaxy, and the
Emperor knew it

I Dunno about that. Remember, the Emperor's Original plan was to strap Magnus into the Golden Throne. When that went awry, he strapped another powerful Psyker(Malcador?) into the throne until after he fought Horus. Only when it became a "die now or Die Later" situation did he put himself into the golden throne.

Most caring probably a tie between tau Etherial and sisters hospitallers

I'd actually offer up Jergen (commisar Cain's oderous assistant) as one caring individual defined as caring for someone else other than themselves since we know how little he does (outside of p0rno slates) to take care of himself but will always carry an extra sandwich or cup of coffee for his commisar. And how long has that guy been a gunner first class? Shouldn't he at least make sergeant or something by now? like 50 yrs of service and not a promotion! Gotta be selfless for that kind of gig.

Iur_tae_mont wrote:I Dunno about that. Remember, the Emperor's Original plan was to strap Magnus into the Golden Throne. When that went awry, he strapped another powerful Psyker(Malcador?) into the throne until after he fought Horus. Only when it became a "die now or Die Later" situation did he put himself into the golden throne.

I don't know, most people would likely rather death than eternal agony. Did the Emperor actually say that that was the plan or was that just what Chaos showed Magnus? And someone sitting on the Golden Throne was only necessary in the first place because of Magnus; if not for that, then the Webway portal would not have to be forced shut by the Emperor's strength, right?

sudojoe wrote:Most caring probably a tie between tau Etherial and sisters hospitallers

Dunno about the Ethereal. It's easy to seem like you care when you Brainwash your subjects.

SomeRandomEvilGuy wrote:

Iur_tae_mont wrote:I Dunno about that. Remember, the Emperor's Original plan was to strap Magnus into the Golden Throne. When that went awry, he strapped another powerful Psyker(Malcador?) into the throne until after he fought Horus. Only when it became a "die now or Die Later" situation did he put himself into the golden throne.

I don't know, most people would likely rather death than eternal agony. Did the Emperor actually say that that was the plan or was that just what Chaos showed Magnus? And someone sitting on the Golden Throne was only necessary in the first place because of Magnus; if not for that, then the Webway portal would not have to be forced shut by the Emperor's strength, right?

To be fair, I got that info from Lexicanum's page on the Golden Throne, so it may not be the best source in the world, but it says the Emperor's plan was to strap Magnus in to keep the webway together.

SomeRandomEvilGuy wrote:I don't know, most people would likely rather death than eternal agony. Did the Emperor actually say that that was the plan or was that just what Chaos showed Magnus? And someone sitting on the Golden Throne was only necessary in the first place because of Magnus; if not for that, then the Webway portal would not have to be forced shut by the Emperor's strength, right?

Magnus hears it straight from the Emperor's mouth, he was originally going to be sitting on the Golden Throne. Though Magnus considered it an honor, and was horrified to discover he had destroyed his father's work.

Iur_tae_mont wrote:To be fair, I got that info from Lexicanum's page on the Golden Throne, so it may not be the best source in the world, but it says the Emperor's plan was to strap Magnus in to keep the webway together.

Fair enough.

Void__Dragon wrote:Magnus hears it straight from the Emperor's mouth, he was originally going to be sitting on the Golden Throne. Though Magnus considered it an honor, and was horrified to discover he had destroyed his father's work.

Ah okay fair enough. Was the Emperor required to sit on the Golden Throne before Magnus tore open the wards?

Rennoc215 wrote:I'm tempted to say papa Nurgle, but then I remembered that he tests all of his viruses/toxins on an eldar goddess... and on his subjects...

papathrax wrote:Tau Ethereals. annoying jerks.

I agree 100%. My friend plays tau, so I ended up reading his dex at some time or another...

Still, they are probably the kindest leaders/people in general.

Not really... they just use pheremons and happy rhetoric to enslave their own people. They then use the wealth and technology their slaves create to bribe foreigners to do their dirty work, so the Ethereals are able to feel that the Tau race is above the other races. The Greater Good? Its all just what the Ethereals want at a given time. The Tau only offer the greater good to races the Ethereals think are useful. Need I remind you of the time they tried to befriend the Necrons? After seeing them single handedly wipe out a Hive Fleet? If they actually grew warp-senses, I have a feeling they'd befriend Khorne, too. Blood for the Blood good!

My vote for most compassionate character: The God-Emperor of Man-kind, hands down. Why was this even a question?

My own vote goes to Nurgle. You don't have to be a decent and wholesome individual to care.

SomeRandomEvilGuy wrote:

Revenent Reiko wrote:
It has been stated that Khorne was 'born' during the Middle Ages of Terra (Earth), and Nurgle during the Black Death and i cant remember when Tzeentch was created/born, but it was another milestone incident in Earths history IIRC, maybe someone else can fill in that blank please.

I've read that Tzeentch was born during the Renaissance or some such, but I'm not entirely sure about that. While the Chaos Gods may have awoken at those times, it is highly unlikely that humanity had any significant influence on them (considering the Eldar required a vast empire, a more psychically attuned nature and a complete devolution into decadence to do so - humanity in the current 40K likely has less influence on the Warp than the Eldar Empire did.)

Eldar had a very real, living, pantheon of Gods emulating all that the Eldar stood for. You had gods of creativity, honour, war, love, and cunning. What you didn't have was an Eldar god of excess and perversion (not necessarily sexual perversion!), until such a god came into existence and killed all other Eldar gods.
In it's essence, the Eldar influence on the Warp bled into their Gods, rather than spill into the chaos itself.

Lynata wrote:

SomeRandomEvilGuy wrote:

Lynata wrote:Maybe the strength of human emotions is to blame.

Except Eldar emotions are much stronger and keenly felt than Human emotions.

They are? I always took the current Eldar to be more calm and reasonable, basically "space high elves" or the Vulcans of 40k.

I'm not an expert on the mind of Eldar and have read little stuff about them, though, so I could be completely wrong about it. Could anyone elaborate? Normally I'd not be that interested in a xeno race, but this is a pretty major thing and I at least want to get the basics about them right!

Oh no, Eldar are a hairwidth from being a demented psychopath, each and every one of them, but they are demented psychopaths who value prosperity, integrity and beauty - unless they are Dark Eldar in which case you can replace integrity with the prefix "personal" in front of the other two and remove the hair from the equation. They make commisars look like the elves from Overlord 2.

Rogal dorn as he disagreed with the codex astartes, but sacrificed his legion just to prevent another civil war

My vote goes to Isha the reason should be obvious.