These appeared on BOLS this morning.

Eldar mid to late 2012. Possibly 1st or 2nd official 6 ed codex

Guardians being redone. Will include new weapons platform and storm guardian bits.

Avatar getting new fine cast version with weapon options (spear/sword) not as big as FW model, but larger than current.

Lots of new mech options. Jump pack/jet options for walkers similar to new FW models, but unclear if this is new model or upgrade to current model. Upgrade packs don't seem likely, and current model is decent, so I have my doubts about this rumor completely.

New tank options...built on wave serpent/falcon chassis still. Hydra like flak turret, Bonuses against flyers and skimmers. Dcannon tank. And some pulse cannon monster tank...scorpion?

New jet bikes and vypers.

New warlock sculpts.

New aspect sculpts, aspects still likely fine cast.

Some sort of shimmershield device. Portable cover save for a unit, but static once deployed...model in design for it. Sounds fishy to me? But the de have the portal...who knows, I say unlikely.

From obvious dept comes the nightwing and some form of bomber. Neither look at all like de ships, or existing FW. Definitely eldar.

Drop pod of some sort that can carry 20 troops, 10 wraith guard, or 1 wraith lord. Deploys as firebase that has higher cover rating for guardians. Sounds like a bastion that drops into play with a weapons platform attached. Not sure I buy into this rumor completely, it seems too complex the way it's been described. And I never saw any evidence of this in design before.

Cheers. Still super long off, though. Have your salt handy.

From Stickmonkey

Discuss.

Interesting... Let the rumor mills start spinning.

The shimmershield comes straight out of dawn of war 2, eldar guardians have it as an ability. Whether that solidifies it as a rumour or fact, no one can say. I think it's an odd idea as it encourages eldar to play statically, which they don't. On the other hand it represents their use of advanced technology rather than primitive armour. If it was standard rather than an upgrade, and could be used by a lot of models in the units then it could be really cooll

Gardeners aren't exactly all out combat units at the moment tho are they?
They are only really good at dying and sitting on an objective, this shimmershield would make them die less, whilst sat on an objective or at least making it harder to claim KPs. I would expect it to be a unit-wide bonus as giving one model a cover save is hardly good.

Still a long way out yet, but I can buy them being one of the first codices for 6th (lets face it Marines will be first lol). Late 2012 more likely than mid, since mid will likely be the release of 6th and maybe the first codex release.

Guardians being redone is a given tbh, that kit is really showings its age. Guardians are also trash in game atm, so I expect them to get a major overhaul rules wise, which in turn would likely require some changes to the kits anyway (new options etc). Jetbike prototypes were sighted ages ago, and we know that they split off development of the Reaver jetbikes from a more general design so Jetbikes are pretty likely.

More mech options makes sense, War Walkers, Vypers and Wraithlords all need some more options for mobility and/or firepower. Quite a few of these things already exist as FW models though, the Wasp Walker (jump pack War Walkers), D Cannon vehicle (Warp Hunter) and the Firestorm Falcon (anti air, with multiple long barrelled Scatter Lasers) being the obvious ones, so there could well be some crossover/wishlisting there.

We seem to get new Aspect Sculpts every generation, but not much changes. Scorpions still have Chainswords and shooty helmets, Banshees still have Power Swords and loudspeaker helmets etc. Finecast will suck but I know they don't get the volume with Aspect Warriors to justify plastic. I'm more interested to see if we will get any new Aspects in general, or if any existing ones get a major work over which would actually require them getting completely new models (fringe Aspects like Shining Spears or Spiders being the main candidates).

The Shimmershield type upgrade is something I have suggested several times in Proposed Rule threads for the next Eldar codex. Its an upgrade Guardians can get in Dawn of War (the PC game that is), which basically looks like an Energy Field projector on a weapons platform so not really that out there. How they implement it is another thing.

The Pod thing is by far the most unlikely, its the only thing I'm completely calling BS on (the rest have varying amounts of sald required). Eldar don't use Drop Pod type equipment at all, almost everything is done with the Webway. Mostly they operate where there are Portals already, and just use them to bring everything to the battle. If not they get Rangers on the ground covertly, and they create short Webway links (even if its just into orbit) which everything comes through.

I like how Stickmonkey is skeptical about his own rumours.

DaemonJellybaby wrote:Gardeners aren't exactly all out combat units at the moment tho are they?

I have to agree with you, Gardeners are pretty horrible at combat, they're only armed with a pair of gardening shears, a hoe, a rake and a shovel. Unfortunately they can't use all of these at once or claim +1 attack from having 2 weapons in CC. They do have the +1 to cover save when in shrubs, and they can cut said shrub into a fantastic looking horse on a +4.

Bah, another eldar release with yet another resculpt of the aspect warriors *without* making the damn things in plastic.

I really want to see eldar be given the same treatment as dark eldar, a lot of the model range is still stuck in 2nd edition and it really really needs the kind of overhaul that orks received in 5th edition, not "here's 3 new plastics, now go away and wait for another 6 years".

scarletsquig wrote:Bah, another eldar release with yet another resculpt of the aspect warriors *without* making the damn things in plastic.

Exactly what I was going to say. I'd rather have seen the Aspect Warriors in plastic than the Guardians, let alone another remake. The Eldar's entire civilisation is defined by specialisation (it's what keeps them from being Slaanesh's latest chew toy), not the poorly equipped mooks Guardians have been since 3rd edition. Three dual-purpose kits for the Aspects (Light & Agile, Medium and Heavy) and a plastic Seer Council would do a lot to push the army in the right direction.

I like the rumours i'm hearing , it'd be nice if the unit in the book give some scope for an exodite army.

I really like the fact that the OP didn't attach stickmonkey's name to the copied post, but put it in his own comments. Kind of gives him the validation he deserves. I know he was correct on some of his previous posts, but most of it never came to be and he lost all reliability in his rumors, at least from me.

AlexHolker wrote:

scarletsquig wrote:Bah, another eldar release with yet another resculpt of the aspect warriors *without* making the damn things in plastic.

Exactly what I was going to say. I'd rather have seen the Aspect Warriors in plastic than the Guardians, let alone another remake. The Eldar's entire civilisation is defined by specialisation (it's what keeps them from being Slaanesh's latest chew toy), not the poorly equipped mooks Guardians have been since 3rd edition. Three dual-purpose kits for the Aspects (Light & Agile, Medium and Heavy) and a plastic Seer Council would do a lot to push the army in the right direction.

Sorry but that's basically never going to happen for a multitude of reasons. For starters the Aspects are far too diverse to do in a combined plastic kit, every Aspect is unique in its armour style, weapon loadout and fighting style (its what makes Eldar Eldar as you mention) which all have to be translated into the models. Scorpions look nothing like Banshees despite both being infantry assault units, Avengers look nothing like Dragons despite both having a 4+ save and being ranged units, Spiders are completely unique compared to the other Aspects, Shining Spears are on Jetbikes so clearly won't work in a combined kit etc etc. Its not like with Marines where you have a common skeleton/armour, and can just change a few things around to get a different squad, there is no way you could make a common kit which covers multiple Aspects without destroying the style and uniqueness of one or all of the Aspects in said kit. Secondly there is a question of economy of scale. Simply put Aspect Warriors do not sell that well, because a) they aren't Marines b) you don't take huge numbers of them in an army anyway as they are expensive/elite and c) did I mention they aren't Marines? Avengers are the only troop aspect (and will likely stay that way for the most part, aside from the odd 'make a single unit scoring' type thing, because 6 units of scoring Dragons WILL break the game) and as such the only one which is financial viable for GW to do in plastic. In short the only way plastic Aspect Warriors could work is in mono Aspect kits, but they are highly complex and inflexible (as in 1 kit makes 1 unit which won't be able to swap components with other kits) and more importantly don't sell enough to be viable.

Plastic characters is more likely but still not a great chance. It depends largely on how many options they give Farseers, Warlocks and any other HQ choices they include. At the moment it make no sense to have plastic characters because they have 1 possible weapons loadout which covers everything.

Powerguy wrote:For starters the Aspects are far too diverse to do in a combined plastic kit, every Aspect is unique in its armour style, weapon loadout and fighting style (its what makes Eldar Eldar as you mention) which all have to be translated into the models.

If you're going to take the time to write such a lengthy reply, at least read what I wrote. I never suggested a single combined plastic kit for all Aspect Warriors.

AlexHolker wrote:

Powerguy wrote:For starters the Aspects are far too diverse to do in a combined plastic kit, every Aspect is unique in its armour style, weapon loadout and fighting style (its what makes Eldar Eldar as you mention) which all have to be translated into the models.

If you're going to take the time to write such a lengthy reply, at least read what I wrote. I never suggested a single combined plastic kit for all Aspect Warriors.

Combined is an inclusive term in this context, I'm talking in plurals. You suggested 3 kits which COMBINES multiple Aspects into a single kit. Combining 5 things into 1 thing or 6 things into 3 things is you are still combining it either way. Even with multiple combined kits Aspect Warriors are far too diverse, you suggested a light, medium and heavy, but that's not even close to being enough to distinguish the different Aspects.

This far out, the rumor isn't that there will be new plastics, or new rules, or new game modes.

Its that the codex might be getting a revamp. The end.

Stickmonkey's post was of course taken from Warseer, BoLS just reposted it.
Here some more:

stickmonkey wrote:

Any possibility of plastic wraithguard or will that be a 2nd wave release?

Seems likely, but I didn't hear anything specific this time.

To add some credibility, philbrad2 has seen a new Warlock and Strm Guardian on GD UK today, but no pics yet.

Droma wrote:I heard through the grape vine maybe two months ago about Eldar vs CSM in the 6e box. Any word on that stickmonkey? It would seem to fit if Eldar are the 1st or 2nd 6e codex release. New rumor source so not sure how much I trust him.

I'm inclined to say that they will get a fairly drastic overhaul, as a lot of those models are getting on a bit.

All I can say is I am looking forward to this release. I think the idea of plastic wraith guard would be incredible which means it wont happen heh. GW will make them Failcast then ask $25 each for them to make sure nobody buys them. IS it just me or does this rumor look like someone looked at forgeworld releases and made a wishlist codex?

I had heard this was going to be a codex similar to the old craftworld codex but this was a while ago so here is hoping. Hopefully the Aspect lords will actually be able to take their own aspects as troops heeh.

Funny how someone mentioned the viability of plastic aspects and certain aspects (fire dragons cough) are much more used than guardians.

Anyways be intriguing to see eldar updated although I call shenanigans on the 6th edition! Everyone knows the first book of a new edition is Space Marines!

My thoughts on some of these rumors

-More Vehicles? Cool if not expensive
-Is everyone getting "fast skimmer" fliers now?
-Well at least theres going to be model updates, the wallet will hurt though with all the finecasts I bet
-They better get point costs right. I swear a good chunk of the current codex istn all that useful compared to the other choices in the slots. Yes perhaps it has to do with the local meta but I would really like to see Shinning Spears usable!

I don't want to sound like an jerk here, but ummm Stick Monkeys rumours, well they've been wrong. Consistently wrong. Every time.

Its gotten to the point where I'm questioning why he still bothers.

With that in mind, I hope Eldar players aren't getting too excited

Interesting rumours...
I hope this will be true, especially for new warlocks and planes.
And I hope they'll release Gyrinx like they did with Jokaero for GK.

Asuron wrote:

With that in mind, I hope Eldar players aren't getting too excited

How can you get excited about eldar? A bunch of Japanese Space Elves that are always flaunting their ability to "see the future" and yet are ultimately DOOMED! (sounds like gw's marketing plan)

Oh you meant the models/rules

Well, we can always have hope right?

Drop pod of some sort that can carry 20 troops, 10 wraith guard, or 1 wraith lord. Deploys as firebase that has higher cover rating for guardians. Sounds like a bastion that drops into play with a weapons platform attached. Not sure I buy into this rumor completely, it seems too complex the way it's been described. And I never saw any evidence of this in design before.

Feth I hope this is wrong.

SIGH

I really hate how GW keeps retconning their fluff.

I mean from Rogue Trader up through 5th edition it's been clear that the Eldar are a race in decline, on the edge of extinction.

They should be cutting the number of eldar units, not expanding them! Surely it would be more fluffy if the next codex eliminated Scorpions and Dark Reapers, or at least Shinning Spears and Swooping Hawks.

Instead they're adding more units.

We should boycott the Eldar until GW finally starts living up to its fluff!

Small, Far Away wrote:These appeared on BOLS this morning.
...From Stickmonkey

Just to give credit where its do the tacobell of lost souls got this from Warseer from about 4 days ago.

lord_blackfang wrote:I like how Stickmonkey is skeptical about his own rumours.

Knowing how he writes, he's not skeptical, he just believes others will be skeptical.

AlexHolker wrote:

scarletsquig wrote:Bah, another eldar release with yet another resculpt of the aspect warriors *without* making the damn things in plastic.

Exactly what I was going to say. I'd rather have seen the Aspect Warriors in plastic than the Guardians, let alone another remake. The Eldar's entire civilisation is defined by specialisation (it's what keeps them from being Slaanesh's latest chew toy), not the poorly equipped mooks Guardians have been since 3rd edition. Three dual-purpose kits for the Aspects (Light & Agile, Medium and Heavy) and a plastic Seer Council would do a lot to push the army in the right direction.

GW's said as much before that its a matter of economics that makes it hard to justify plastic kits for aspect warriors. I think you guys are right, that there are specific aspect warriors that could be done, but not necessarily all of them. At the same time I don't think you can combine aspect warriors to make joint kits without drastically sacrificing their defining appearance... at which point GW might as well make them add-on bits for Guardians.

Kid_Kyoto wrote:SIGH

I really hate how GW keeps retconning their fluff.

I mean from Rogue Trader up through 5th edition it's been clear that the Eldar are a race in decline, on the edge of extinction.

They should be cutting the number of eldar units, not expanding them!...

I think we should at least hold out to see the explanation of why or how they're adding new units. As far as we know the Eldar have borrowed some DE birthing technology. Or a new craftworld came out of nowhere (I mean the webways or warp)... since those are a dime a dozen these days.

Kid_Kyoto wrote:They should be cutting the number of eldar units, not expanding them! Surely it would be more fluffy if the next codex eliminated Scorpions and Dark Reapers, or at least Shinning Spears and Swooping Hawks.

You imply that all aspects keep the same numbers of warriors, which is an arbitrary assumption. Eldar are advanced enough to further diversify and develop their technology.

aka_mythos wrote:

Small, Far Away wrote:These appeared on BOLS this morning.
...From Stickmonkey

Just to give credit where its do the tacobell of lost souls got this from Warseer from about 4 days ago.

... only if your days are 2 hours each
It was posted around midnight on Warseer.

Wait, wait, wait. Re-sculpting the Aspect Warriors again.

So we have the RT/2d Ed ones, then they get redesigned by someone in 3rd Ed, then Jes gets the controls back and redoes them all so they stop sucking in 4th Ed... and now they're going to re-do them again for 5th? 4 different Aspect sculpts in as many editions?

Nope. Don't buy it.

Kroothawk wrote:... only if your days are 2 hours each
It was posted around midnight on Warseer.

I'm not going to argue a time stamp... but I hadn't been online since before it says he posted... so I somehow read it before... I'm confused.

H.B.M.C. wrote:Wait, wait, wait. Re-sculpting the Aspect Warriors again.

So we have the RT/2d Ed ones, then they get redesigned by someone in 3rd Ed, then Jes gets the controls back and redoes them all so they stop sucking in 4th Ed... and now they're going to re-do them again for 5th? 4 different Aspect sculpts in as many editions?

Nope. Don't buy it.

You are aware that Warp Spiders and Wraith Guard are still Rogue trader/2nd edition, right? As are the standard jetbike, all phoenix lords and a few warlocks.

Resculpting Aspect Warriors isn't a bad thing. I'm annoyed that the Scorpions and Dragons have has way too many resculpts, but maybe Spiders will finally get a resculpt.

As for making them plastic kits, I don't think anyone is really suggesting combining multiple aspects into one box. Dark Eldar have separate plastic kits for Scourges and Wyches. It wouldn't be too odd to have Plastic Eldar kits for some of the older Aspects.

As an aside, don't BOLS and especially Stickmonkey have horrible reputations for making up rumors eventually shown to be false? I think only Blood of Kittens has Stickmonkey beat in terms of false rumors, and BOLS's only reputable rumors are the ones they find on other forums. This "rumor" would be a waste of salt.

It's all a bunch of wishlisting that Eldar players have been doing all along with some obvious things:
-The Avatar is really old. Eldar players have been wishlisting for a new model.
-The Guardians are a somewhat older plastic set and Storm Guardians are an expensive metal-platic hybrid set available from GW Direct only. Again Eldar players have been wishlisting for a new set.
-Since the teaser from 2007-ish, every Eldar player ever has been waiting for new Jetbike models.
-Taking metal aspects and making them finecast is obvious.
-Every player wants Forge World models in their codex. The "rumor" just names the Firestorm, Scorpion, and Wasp... all from Forge World. Nothing new is even hinted at.
-Another popular thing for wishlisting is taking Dawn of War concepts and translating them onto tabletop wishlists. Here we see DoWII's Eldar Guardian shields in a rumor.
-The drop pod idea is new, but it seems questionable for Eldar. I'd imagine Eldar use more of a Webway Gate or Storm Serpent... nothing dispoable. Even Stickmonkey seems to doubt this rumor in two sentences. One one unique non-wishlist concept is doubted by the rumorer himself... wut?

This "rumor" has no substance.

I think only Blood of Kittens has Stickmonkey beat in terms of false rumors

How in the world does one honestly believe this given Blood of Kittens track record on the Sisters WDex, Grey Knights, and, to a lesser extent, Dark Eldar?

Just for completeness, here the greens of two Eldar miniatures shown on GD UK, a Warlock and a Storm Guardian, maybe just test sculpts, but anyway:





and, slightly off topic, the next Eldar Forge World releases, taken from the GD UK thread:

The only aspect warriors in need of new sculpts are hawks and spiders IMO, maybe DA's--not really bad sculpts, just boring. Scorpions and banshees especially look really nice. Don't need new models for the most part, just a new codex.

The codex getting an early 6th ed overhaul would certainly have me repainting the eldar collection I have faster. From those rumours I can believe certain rescuplts (during the DE jetbikes highlighting they said they did both races at once) but am really hoping the aspects remain the same for wallet reasons aside from the obvious shining spears and warp spiders which will both need a make over.
A combined defender/storm kit would be great and with the trend going in the direction of most if not all a units options are available in their kit likely.
The new toys my army will be getting I shall take with a pinch of salt for now, especially this silly drop fortress, unless I see a £65 price tag on it like the fortress of redemption than I'll believe it exists
What I worry about most isn't new toys, new resculpts, cries of "but eldar are overpowered now" but the rules they will be rewriting. Let's face it the latest codices have not been inspiring in the faith department. Stupid fluff and overpowered rules to overtake the last codex and be obselete with the following codex of space marines isn't how I wish to see the future of 40k go once more.
Also the eldar I feel more than any other codex has major balancing issues to be worked out. Most fast attack options are not worth taking in this edition, even in friendly game (mourns the 9 vypers sitting in his flat), and our points need an overhauls on many units. Best example would be the humble guardian. At 1 point more a DE warrior is far superior for example . I would especially despise pheonix lords suddenly able to change FOC choices like marine special characters as well.
The return of the seer council option to replace the farseer and models from it able to be split off into units would be a lovely option however.

That Phantom 'Close Combat Weapon' is a site to behold!

Almost makes me want to buy an Eldar Titan - almost!

Ahhh Shadow Spectres.

However, it looks like the Imperium isn't winning.

Again...

Kanluwen wrote:Ahhh Shadow Spectres.

However, it looks like the Imperium isn't winning.

Again...

Not too sure on that one, going by the name then them suggesting that Mymeara is a Craftworld.

We'll see when it comes out, of course.

Guh, that storm guardian... Why does GW think shaved heads with giant (I'm talking almost architectural in their height) topknots looks good on Cweldar?

Like Absolutionis says, DE get plastic scourges. Why can't CE get more plastic aspects? After all, they already have one aspect in plastic and it didn't destroy GW.

I like the idea of exploring more grav platform options like the shimmer-shield device. It gives a chance to explore Eldar culture in little ways. You know what I'd like to see? An Eldar cargo pod mounted on an anti-grav platform. Then I'd like to see some kind of construction/wraithbone shaping engine mounted on a grav platform. Forgeworld can do it.

The drop pod is ridiculous, it runs contrary to everything Eldar are supposed to be about. Eldar don't need drop pods because they have aerial superiority and webway portals all over the place. It's like giving a space marine tactical squad an option to "upgrade" to lasguns.

Eldar are really about the last property GW has that could tempt me back into buying, and I do have an Eldar project in mind for some time when I have more free time and money. So an Eldar rerelease with better kits is welcome. But as long as GW is relying on finecast for key Eldar components, I remain skeptical and I will likely not buy anything.

But as Kan recommends, I will keep my expectations abysmally low and look forward to GW exceeding them by demonstrating basic competency.

Platuan4th wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:Ahhh Shadow Spectres.

However, it looks like the Imperium isn't winning.

Again...

Not too sure on that one, going by the name then them suggesting that Mymeara is a Craftworld.

We'll see when it comes out, of course.

BTW here is the early jetbike prototype shown 2007, very similar to the DE jetbike released last year:

Really the only thing holding me back from getting into eldar are the older/mono-pose models.

I'm looking forward to a 6th edition release.

Old news is New news!

Although I really do hope that turns out to be what the new Eldar jetbikes look like.

Odds are... good!

Kroothawk wrote:You are aware that Warp Spiders and Wraith Guard are still Rogue trader/2nd edition, right? As are the standard jetbike, all phoenix lords and a few warlocks.

Of course I am. I was around when all of them were first released. Redoing the Warp Spiders is fine, and putting out a box of Wraithguard in plastic just makes sense. But the report didn't stipulate which Aspect Warriors, just 'Aspect Warriors'. Nothing needs to be done to the Dragons, Scorps, Banshees and Dark Reapers.

H.B.M.C. wrote:

Kroothawk wrote:You are aware that Warp Spiders and Wraith Guard are still Rogue trader/2nd edition, right? As are the standard jetbike, all phoenix lords and a few warlocks.

Of course I am. I was around when all of them were first released. Redoing the Warp Spiders is fine, and putting out a box of Wraithguard in plastic just makes sense. But the report didn't stipulate which Aspect Warriors, just 'Aspect Warriors'. Nothing needs to be done to the Dragons, Scorps, Banshees and Dark Reapers.

I don't know... I think the Dragons and Reapers could each use a new set of sculpts IMO.

I mean after looking at all the new DE stuff, alot of the eldar units looks washed up and old (aside from the ones that arn't already old).

H.B.M.C. wrote:
Nothing needs to be done to the Dragons, Scorps, Banshees and Dark Reapers.

And if the rules remain in their terrible state, the Hawks too.

Kroothawk wrote:

Words fail me.

Nightwatch wrote:And if the rules remain in their terrible state, the Hawks too.

They could/should do the Hawks in plastic. That would be a nice change (the current models are a little... well... fragile and unbalanced).

JOHIRA wrote:
The drop pod is ridiculous, it runs contrary to everything Eldar are supposed to be about. Eldar don't need drop pods because they have aerial superiority and webway portals all over the place. It's like giving a space marine tactical squad an option to "upgrade" to lasguns.

You do understand this is just something to fulfill the same role as a drop pod, right? It's probably a webway gate that teleports itself in and then squads can come on from reserve through it.

AAA it the end of world (Crying ) no dont mess with my eldar!!

Ok for real this sounds good but lets see what happens before this goes crazy please.

Even if Swooping Hawks were considered unfeasible due to bad rules/being costed wrong, I'd still love to see them get new models along the lines of the Dark Eldar Scourges.

I would like to see experimental rules for the Shadow spectre Phoenix lord. Not because Im interrested in a shadow spectre lord, just that it might hint at what is to come.
You think there is any chance this IA rules would give us a hint at what to expect of phoenix lords in a new codex?

bhsman wrote:Even if Swooping Hawks were considered unfeasible due to bad rules/being costed wrong, I'd still love to see them get new models along the lines of the Dark Eldar Scourges.

'Considered unfeasible'? That's putting it lightly. A friend recently used some against me. Managed to kill 4 Gargoyles with the grenade pack and lasblastered down a few Termagants, scattered close to those units, then died in combat against them down to the exarch. It jumped away and never returned.

Fayric wrote:I would like to see experimental rules for the Shadow spectre Phoenix lord. Not because Im interrested in a shadow spectre lord, just that it might hint at what is to come.
You think there is any chance this IA rules would give us a hint at what to expect of phoenix lords in a new codex?

Not trying to be overly negative here, but not a chance. Forgeworld has always followed behind the core GW rules/codices rather than acting as a progressive or even slightly radical rules developer, except in rare cases where no GW book already exists (and presumably there is no plan for GW to cover it themselves) and they have a more open approach (which is often where they fall over balance wise). FW always base rules on the existing codex for the army (if one exists), the new non Super Heavy Eldar stuff is all based on the current codex and is pretty sub par from a competitive standpoint as a result (the Shadow Spectres are pretty terrible really so I have no reason to expect the Phoenix Lord to be any different). Guard were based on the old book for quite a while and took ages to be updated, the list goes on. There are a multitude of reasons for this, chief among them being that GW has all the good codex writers tied up already. FW is also primarily a model making group, and are clearly classified as a sub-company of GW, so can't really go above or around the primary rules without causing a whole heap of further issues. Also factoring in that the Dark Eldar book is very recent and the 'Phoenix Lord' in that had exactly the same base stats as all the other ones from the old Eldar codex, and that despite these rumours the Eldar codex is still a LONG way off I would be incredibly surprised if FW change things.

Every aspect warrior can stay finecase except dire avengers and fire dragons. I could see a multi part plastic kit that would work as both fire dragons and dire avengers. The main diferences between the sculpts is the shoulders and weapons. 1 torso/legs will probably work for both.

schadenfreude wrote:Every aspect warrior can stay finecase except dire avengers and fire dragons. I could see a multi part plastic kit that would work as both fire dragons and dire avengers. The main diferences between the sculpts is the shoulders and weapons. 1 torso/legs will probably work for both.

I was thinking this same thing, but the Dire Avengers sprue is only a couple years old. I could see (with a bit of refinement) a few of the Aspect Warriors coming together into one box with lots of variation in armor and armaments. However, I think it's more likely that the plastic Aspects just refers to outdated models.

-Loki- wrote:'Considered unfeasible'? That's putting it lightly. A friend recently used some against me. Managed to kill 4 Gargoyles with the grenade pack and lasblastered down a few Termagants, scattered close to those units, then died in combat against them down to the exarch. It jumped away and never returned.

I'm referring to a potential new Eldar codex, not the current one.

Hmm all kinds of new eldar stuff. I’m glad to hear they’re working on it. Here’s what I think.

GamesDay Photos. New plastic guardian – isn’t that shuriken pistol just a tad too big to be wielded single handed? Damn GW open your eyes and engage proportions. New Warlock green – I really love how the draping of the robes on the sword arm defies gravity and falls at an angle instead of straight down. Damn GW can you quit reusing sculpts? (it may not be a reuse, but let’s face it…they reuse stuff all the time, lazy bastards). Gotta say I love that they’re making more seers KEEP IT UP! ForgeWorld Photos -
Titan CCW, Spectre Phoenix Lord – I love you guys! I love you so much. I’m soo excited to see the new IA books. And I especially like that they’re introducing a new phoenix lord. I thought that the first six would be the only ones I’d ever see I think FW should be tasked with remaking all of the PLs and introducing WarpSpider and ShiningSpear lords as well.

Thoughts on Plastics
Give them to us. Work your 3Up magic, make your molds and give us more plastics. Some kits have been around so long or are so prohibitively expensive that they’re just dieing for it (looking at you Wraithguard, WarpSpiders). I pretty much agree with folks like H.B.M.C. about the 2007 line of aspects pretty much nailing the sculpts (3rd ed Banshees were too tall, 3rd ed Reapers were too small, 3rd ed Scorpions were just bad). But all of the current Aspect lines suffer from this – not enough poses/scults and Exarch options in the codex are not represented (well about half of the time they are, but Triskele, Spinneret Rifle, SunRifle I am looking at you). I don’t like running two squads of 8-10 guys and only having four different sculpts. I think GW did a great job on the DA kit back in 2007 and I think they could do just as good of a job on the other aspects –especially after what they’ve shown us they could do in the DE line.

New Plastic tanks, jetbikes, andVypers bring them on. I’ve been waiting for that Jess Goodwin jetbike concept to come out forever. If they brought over the Warp Hunter and made some SuperHeavy totally in plastic I’d be loving life even more. New plastic flyers meh, but whatever

Other rumors
New Avatar – Bring it! The GW is sooo ugly and not everyone wants the FW option for one reason or another.

New mech options – I’m cool with that if GW can back it up on the sprue. I personally don’t see them changing up sprues that are only five years old, but maybe they can add sprues to the kit boxes. Honestly don’t really see this happening.

Bringing stuff in from DOW2 – Good idea. I think the Relic people talk to the GW fluffers for direction. Implementing previously unseen tech like the static shimmershield into the new codex seems natural. If they can get the rules down.

Drop pod – Not liking this. Not enough info to be sure, but at present I don’t like it. How about an assault vehicle instead? Or would that make them too powerful? Muahahah!

In the end, do these rumors give us anything unique that isn;t wishlisting? No.

Every one of these is either something obvious (resculpts of 15+yr old models), Forge World Wishlisting, Dawn of War Wishlisting, and a mention of that jetbike from 4 years ago.

I think these bits pop up on 40kOnline's Eldar section on a weekly basis under the heading "what would you like to see...?"

Absolutionis wrote:In the end, do these rumors give us anything unique that isn;t wishlisting? No.

Every one of these is either something obvious (resculpts of 15+yr old models), Forge World Wishlisting, Dawn of War Wishlisting, and a mention of that jetbike from 4 years ago.

I think these bits pop up on 40kOnline's Eldar section on a weekly basis under the heading "what would you like to see...?"

Hmm reality check. I agree with you. But that's pretty much what every rumor thread is. 1 part potentiality. 1 part "I believe, I don't believe, this is great, this sucks." 1 part wishlisting. At least this time around we've got some great clear pics from GD to look at and inspire us. I like hearing other peoples views on stuff like this and this thread hasn't debased itself into a total flame war.

The Jetbike from four years ago seems pretty realistic given we've seen the DE reacted with at least 70% of that model incorporated. A new Vyper also seems obvious looking at the DE line again.
The fact that FD, HB, SS, DA, and Reapers all got new sculpts last codex leads me to believe they will remain unchanged. WS and SH are more likely to receive new sculpts or kits. Given just how much you can pack onto sprues with GWs new(ER) injection molding machinery I could almost see a couple aspects combining with posable bodies and arms and aspect arms and heads, kinda sorta like burnas and lootas.

Rumors being rumors I'll wait until something comes out closer to the release and hope GWs secrecy policy goes away and they preview stuff for us to get excited about.
I'd really like a new Eldar dex to let you field actual craftworlds not just SCs in an anything goes list. A Saim Hann SC on a jetbike or chariot would be awesome, black guardians, Aliatoc pathfinder armies. Put the flavor back in candy coated Eldar. So there's my wishlist which I hope follows a logical discussion of what models are likely to come out with a new Eldar dex.

I don't see new tank bodies happening. I think the Wraithlords, Walkers, Vypers and Falcon bodies will all stay the same. There is nothing dated or wrong with them and the DE venom looks very similar to the vyper as it.

What I do expect is that the Eldar will get access to the venom and we will get 'blown away' with new HQ/Elite sculpts and with whatever new flyers/tank turrets get produced.

I'd like to see all the aspects redone. Some are dated from back near 2nd and 3rd edition. And most all of them pretty much suck. Especially compared with some of the more recent stuff.

Here is Stickmonkey's Track Record on Warseer:

November 2009: Xenos scenery never released.
http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=231091

May 2010: Apparently he has the new Eldar Avatar on hand. Alongside from the Jetbike and Spiders, the Avatar is at the top of many Eldar Players' wishlists for a resculpts. Model was never released.
http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=259168

August 2010: Predicted Necrons never came to pass. Predicted Black Templars never came to pass. Predicted Tau at end of this year.
http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=273562

August 2010: Rumors on the GK codex. Correctly predicted Dreadknight and all squads having psychic powers. Incorrect about Psycannon, Incinerator, "Annointed Armor", and Demonic Instability.
http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=269877

September 2010: Mentions Tau and Necrons. Not released yet. Mentions box of 15 marines and a Librarian/Chaplain combo box. Never released.
http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=276599

November 2010: Summer of Fliers. Never happened.
http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=282301

December 2010: Retracts Grey Knights rumors that ended up being false. Says Necron Codex for mod-2011 and Tyranids 2nd wave for August. Didn't happen. Mentions Summer of Fliers again with a Thunderbolt.
http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=286432

January 2011: Describes new SoB model and others to come. Not released yet.
http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=288577

January 2011: Admits to single-handedly starting Summer of Flier rumor. Ended up being not true.
http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=290871

March 2011: Tyranid Second Wave. Didn't happen yet.
http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=295376

September 2011: IG rumors. Didn't happen yet.
http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=317786

Essentially, he misses more than he hits on rumors, and many things he rumors hasn't even been released yet. Surely many of those rumored items may be yet to come, but considering his track record on verifiable rumors, it's mostly misses. I'm not trying to call StickMonkey a liar or defame him in the slightest. It's simply that it's difficult to get excited over this set of wishlisting Eldar rumors considering StickMonkey's past. Taking these rumors with a pinch of salt would be an insult to salt itself.

Absolutionis wrote:Here is Stickmonkey's Track Record on Warseer:
...
Essentially, he misses more than he hits on rumors, and many things he rumors hasn't even been released yet. Surely many of those rumored items may be yet to come, but considering his track record on verifiable rumors, it's mostly misses. I'm not trying to call StickMonkey a liar or defame him in the slightest. It's simply that it's difficult to get excited over this set of wishlisting Eldar rumors considering StickMonkey's past. Taking these rumors with a pinch of salt would be an insult to salt itself.

Just because it hasn't happened doesn't mean it won't. Besides with GW being so tight lipped about everything, I think he's single handedly kept Warseer's and Dakka's rumors sections a live... without him it'd just be news on releases of other manufacturers, which we can get from Tabletop Gaming News.

aka_mythos wrote:

Absolutionis wrote:Here is Stickmonkey's Track Record on Warseer:
...
Essentially, he misses more than he hits on rumors, and many things he rumors hasn't even been released yet. Surely many of those rumored items may be yet to come, but considering his track record on verifiable rumors, it's mostly misses. I'm not trying to call StickMonkey a liar or defame him in the slightest. It's simply that it's difficult to get excited over this set of wishlisting Eldar rumors considering StickMonkey's past. Taking these rumors with a pinch of salt would be an insult to salt itself.

Just because it hasn't happened doesn't mean it won't. Besides with GW being so tight lipped about everything, I think he's single handedly kept Warseer's and Dakka's rumors sections a live... without him it'd just be news on releases of other manufacturers, which we can get from Tabletop Gaming News.

QFT

Stickmonkey isn't responsible for GW's release schedule. It could very well be that GW tucked away all those ideas in a drawer just waiting for the right moment.

IIRC, then Harry (WS other big rumour monger) already knew about a large number of releases more than three years ago. All of which are just starting to see the light of day.

P.S. ... and I still would not rule out a "Summer of Flyers".

Oh certainly. Much of the listed may still happen, that's certainly true. Either way, for the last two years, many of StickMonkey's rumors have yet to happen. It's hard to be hopeful considering that.

However, several of the rumors that already happened ended up being false. In StickMonkey's defense, it could be that GW changed their plans, withheld the Eldar Jetbike for 5 years, decided to release the summer of fliers with the respective codecies, and delayed the Tyranids 2nd wave for 2 years. Even if this is the case, this list of half-obvious half-wishlisting Eldar rumors are really meaningless.

Either way, agreed that it makes for nice conversation if anything.


Harry is a different story. Harry is a Farseer and everything he says is fact.

Absolutionis wrote:Oh certainly. Much of the listed may still happen, that's certainly true. Either way, for the last two years, many of StickMonkey's rumors have yet to happen. It's hard to be hopeful considering that.

However, several of the rumors that already happened ended up being false. In StickMonkey's defense, it could be that GW changed their plans, withheld the Eldar Jetbike for 5 years, decided to release the summer of fliers with the respective codecies, and delayed the Tyranids 2nd wave for 2 years. Even if this is the case, this list of half-obvious half-wishlisting Eldar rumors are really meaningless.

Either way, agreed that it makes for nice conversation if anything.

Just to add to that. I think its important to remember the history and context of GW rumor mongering... in the old days we'd hear rumors of things long before they'd ever happen to the point people would get annoyed and badger GW about when "X" was being released... this was because GW kept its scheduling flexible and certain items were getting bumped quite a bit. This lead to GW clamping down on information flow from the design studio and the whole 6 month than 3 month rumor window... when this was instituted we had the best rumors that most often were correct, because information was coming out as GW's upper echelons were setting release schedules and the design staff felt it was okay to talk about anything in detail when it hit that window. Now we have no window... we find out when it happens. Thus we only have 2 types of rumors that make it out... the fake ones... and the ones that come from people from within GW who just don't care about "windows" or releases. The first type are right by dumn luck or reasonable deduction. The second type are much like the rumors we got way back in the day, non-chronological without release date or window... just whatever happens to be worked on... without any reasonable connection to a release. Back in the day, it occured often enough GW would just change its mind about a concept and how it was rumor didn't match up with how it was released, much as it now.

We know for a fact GW did work on other terrain pieces that it just chose never to release. We know for a fact GW has spent resources developing aircraft models for a number of factions. Its pretty well established that GW had worked on a new Eldar avatar... and has wanted to replace the older model. These are the half truths that seem to parallel what Stickmonkey has said in the past. Maybe its all guess work or he's making it up... but he's had a degree of precision in repeatedly reporting things that parallel GW's efforts, even if he hasn't had the accuracy in being exactly right with how it pans out.

Absolutionis wrote:Harry is a different story. Harry is a Farseer and everything he says is fact.

Sadly our magic eight ball hasn't said anything in some time.

aka_mythos wrote:

Absolutionis wrote:Harry is a different story. Harry is a Farseer and everything he says is fact.

Sadly our magic eight ball hasn't said anything in some time.

Hey, he just confirmed Blood Bowl for next year, together with Hastings.

There was also that long, long list of Tyranid rules he was entirely wrong on. The guy reminds me of incarceratedbob on Twitter who endlessly spouts NFL gossip so he can claim to have broke the story if it actually happens. I'm sure Indianapolis Colts fans are still waiting for Brett Favre to show up and play as much as posters here still pine for the Summer of Fliers.

lord_blackfang wrote:Hey, he just confirmed Blood Bowl for next year, together with Hastings.

Ooooo... that's cool. The number one GW game I want to see remade, but never played.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

bhsman wrote:There was also that long, long list of Tyranid rules he was entirely wrong on.

GW goes through enough revisions, just look at the difference between WD Blood Angel codex and the book that was eventually released... what he heared could have been the first draft of which little survived.

Aside from new finecast models, these all sound like terrible ideas.

DarknessEternal wrote:Aside from new finecast models, these all sound like terrible ideas.

Then I guess that settles it... this must all be true then... this is all exactly how GW's gonna do it.

blood angel wrote:I don't see new tank bodies happening. I think the Wraithlords, Walkers, Vypers and Falcon bodies will all stay the same. There is nothing dated or wrong with them and the DE venom looks very similar to the vyper as it.

What I do expect is that the Eldar will get access to the venom and we will get 'blown away' with new HQ/Elite sculpts and with whatever new flyers/tank turrets get produced.

I don't see the tank bodies ever getting much more than a facelift, or a new sprue design. Either of which would be purely cosmetic to us.

The Vyper though, I'm going to go out on a limb and say you PROBABLY dont own one, but that's just a guess. The lower body portion has six engine intakes, and pretty thin brittle fins. The Vyper intakes are like the jetbikes, plain open holes. The Venom has Falconesque intakes and only two, rather large. The upper fuselage is much more substantial that the Vyper hood. The turret for the Fireprism looks more like the Venom or maybe how the Vyper should than the current Vyper. Just my 2 cents.

Can someone post a pic of this jetbike that's been mentioned?

aka_mythos wrote:GW goes through enough revisions, just look at the difference between WD Blood Angel codex and the book that was eventually released... what he heared could have been the first draft of which little survived.

So basically Stickmonkey is only good at giving out rumors that end up being worthless. Awesome.

Great to see the eldar might be getting some love. They have long been one of my most favorite armies.

nectarprime wrote:Can someone post a pic of this jetbike that's been mentioned?

For this, I present page 2: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/30/399680.page

Comment by Daemon in orange:

Guardians being redone. Will include new weapons platform and storm guardian bits.
No new Guardian weapon platforms.

Avatar getting new fine cast version with weapon options (spear/sword) not as big as FW model, but larger than current.
Nope

Lots of new mech options. Jump pack/jet options for walkers similar to new FW models, but unclear if this is new model or upgrade to current model. Upgrade packs don't seem likely, and current model is decent, so I have my doubts about this rumor completely.
Sorry but you ought slap your source abit

New tank options...built on wave serpent/falcon chassis still. Hydra like flak
New jet bikes and vypers.New warlock sculpts.New aspect sculpts,
Well yes

aspects still likely fine cast.
No, Majority is redone in plastic. WraithGuards gets a new weapon

From obvious dept comes the nightwing and some form of bomber. Neither look at all like de ships, or existing FW. Definitely eldar.
The obvious thing to do,

Drop pod of some sort that can carry 20 troops, 10 wraith guard, or 1 wraith lord. Deploys as firebase that has higher cover rating for guardians. Sounds like a bastion that drops into play with a weapons platform attached. Not sure I buy into this rumor completely, it seems too complex the way it's been described. And I never saw any evidence of this in design before.
No Eldar drop pods.

Kroot, who is Daemon? Doesn't sound familiar.

Someone who registered on Warseer in September, but he offers a bet on being right

Kroothawk wrote:Someone who registered on Warseer in September, but he offers a bet on being right

Huh....could be interesting if this user is true. I mean multiple plastic aspects? That seems a bit far off

Well, I'm glad to hear about the plastics. That's one hurdle cleared. The next is, "Will the plastics not look like crap?"

I mean, if Jes does them, hooray, we can count on at least moderately above-average figures and will likely get something stunning. If they pass them off to some lesser studio hand to cut their teeth on, we may well end up with plastics like the High Elf spearmen- that we're then stuck with for another 2 decades because why would GW invest their money in one plastic kit when a plastic kit already exists?

+1 for plastic wraithguard. I like my conversions from necron warriors, but I'd be willing to shell out for the real deal if I didn't have to pay $15 a pop and there were more than 2-3 poses.

I really feel that any speculation is wishlisting at this point, although I'm very tentatively excited about the possibility of a forthcoming Eldar Codex. I read somewhere that 6e's starter could be Eldar vs. CSM, something I highly doubt given the lack of vanilla marines in that line-up.

Kroothawk wrote:Someone who registered on Warseer in September, but he offers a bet on being right

Well I'm liking what he's confirming and what's just left hanging (like storm/defender guardians in one box). I just wished I had money to bet against him, the way I see it, either I'm right and I win or he's right... which I still see as a win.

The tanks will probably just start coming with an "eldar tank fan bitz" sprue or something to bring them in line with the current fire prism look, plus GW get to sell it at stupid money seperately to people wanting to update the look of their tanks.
Lets face it the eldar tanks have a VERY iconic look now they won't mess with it, same as the chimera and LRBT, I was surprised they bothered changing the rhino, but it DID look small and dated.

In my opinion I'm far less worried about models and new units than I am the rules and points adjustments for whatever they decide to go with.

Wriathguard need a 5+ invul and a points reduction if stuck with 12" range.

Wraithlords need a 5+ invul.

Guardians need BS 4.

Avenger Catapults need a longer range.

Banshees should become a core choice.

Eldar need at least 1 tank with the assault vehicle designation.

Grav Tanks all need BS 4.

Vypers, Swooping Hawks, Warp Spiders, Wraithguard, Phoenix Lords, and Autarchs all need rules/options/wargear/price adjustments.

I'm so jealous of the D Eldar codex. They can take so many options and everything but the Mandrakes are solid choices.

I just want to be on par with our dark cousins.

Ahh a wish list with ridiculous hopes and dreams, reminds me of a young senator from Illinois.

Thunderfrog wrote:In my opinion I'm far less worried about models and new units than I am the rules and points adjustments for whatever they decide to go with.

Wriathguard need a 5+ invul and a points reduction if stuck with 12" range.

Wraithlords need a 5+ invul.
On top of being T7 how bout no Scott. They need an AV...again or to remain as is
Guardians need BS 4.
only if they are Uthwe
Avenger Catapults need a longer range.
longer than what? Regular catapults? Done
Banshees should become a core choice.
So that you can bring 6 of what is ultimately the best Eldar assault unit and not have to make a choice between that or the eldar tank busters? That sounds like a unit that belongs in elites to me.
Eldar need at least 1 tank with the assault vehicle designation.
Need is such a funny word, it's not enough that all Eldar tanks are fast skimmers with some of the best weapons options in the game (vice 4e pricing), now they 'need' an assault rule.
Grav Tanks all need BS 4.
Yes they need BS4 the way IG tanks need BS4

Vypers, Swooping Hawks, Warp Spiders, Wraithguard, Phoenix Lords, and Autarchs all need rules/options/wargear/price adjustments.
this is often called "a new codex"
I'm so jealous of the D Eldar codex. They can take so many options and everything but the Mandrakes are solid choices.

I just want to be on par with our dark cousins.
now you know what DE players have felt like for years.

AustonT wrote:Ahh a wish list with ridiculous hopes and dreams, reminds me of a young senator from Illinois.

Thunderfrog wrote:In my opinion I'm far less worried about models and new units than I am the rules and points adjustments for whatever they decide to go with.

Wriathguard need a 5+ invul and a points reduction if stuck with 12" range.

Wraithlords need a 5+ invul.
On top of being T7 how bout no Scott. They need an AV...again or to remain as is
Guardians need BS 4.
only if they are Uthwe
Avenger Catapults need a longer range.
longer than what? Regular catapults? Done
Banshees should become a core choice.
So that you can bring 6 of what is ultimately the best Eldar assault unit and not have to make a choice between that or the eldar tank busters? That sounds like a unit that belongs in elites to me.

As an eldar player I agree with it all, though longer ranges across the shuriken weapon board I think is needed or else your basic guardian is always assaulted next turn :(. 2nd ed ranges would be perfect
Eldar need at least 1 tank with the assault vehicle designation.
Need is such a funny word, it's not enough that all Eldar tanks are fast skimmers with some of the best weapons options in the game (vice 4e pricing), now they 'need' an assault rule.
Grav Tanks all need BS 4.
Yes they need BS4 the way IG tanks need BS4

Vypers, Swooping Hawks, Warp Spiders, Wraithguard, Phoenix Lords, and Autarchs all need rules/options/wargear/price adjustments.
this is often called "a new codex"
I'm so jealous of the D Eldar codex. They can take so many options and everything but the Mandrakes are solid choices.

I just want to be on par with our dark cousins.
now you know what DE players have felt like for years.

EDIT: And just realised the text I typed didn't get typed...

Pretty much as an eldar player I agree, a lot of that just plain isn't needed, banshees as troops? Then every aspect should be troops, which is really just Biel-tan territory .
That said increased range on shuriken catapults and cannons would be nice, mainly so defender guardians aren't suddenly in assault range of the unit they're firing at...

Awesome!! It's a long way off, but I'm excited nonetheless.

New units sound cool, but my biggest hope is that GW tweak a few things that, in my opinion, need tweaking.

kenshin620 wrote:

Kroothawk wrote:Someone who registered on Warseer in September, but he offers a bet on being right

Huh....could be interesting if this user is true. I mean multiple plastic aspects? That seems a bit far off

I'm betting one of the plastic Aspect kit is dual purpose.

Like Dark Reaper / Warp Spider kit ( or something )

AustonT wrote:Ahh a wish list with ridiculous hopes and dreams, reminds me of a young senator from Illinois.

Thunderfrog wrote:In my opinion I'm far less worried about models and new units than I am the rules and points adjustments for whatever they decide to go with.

Wriathguard need a 5+ invul and a points reduction if stuck with 12" range.

Wraithlords need a 5+ invul.
On top of being T7 how bout no Scott. They need an AV...again or to remain as is
Guardians need BS 4.
only if they are Uthwe
Avenger Catapults need a longer range.
longer than what? Regular catapults? Done
Banshees should become a core choice.
So that you can bring 6 of what is ultimately the best Eldar assault unit and not have to make a choice between that or the eldar tank busters? That sounds like a unit that belongs in elites to me.
Eldar need at least 1 tank with the assault vehicle designation.
Need is such a funny word, it's not enough that all Eldar tanks are fast skimmers with some of the best weapons options in the game (vice 4e pricing), now they 'need' an assault rule.
Grav Tanks all need BS 4.
Yes they need BS4 the way IG tanks need BS4

Vypers, Swooping Hawks, Warp Spiders, Wraithguard, Phoenix Lords, and Autarchs all need rules/options/wargear/price adjustments.
this is often called "a new codex"
I'm so jealous of the D Eldar codex. They can take so many options and everything but the Mandrakes are solid choices.

I just want to be on par with our dark cousins.
now you know what DE players have felt like for years.

1: Wraithlords are T10, not 7. I'd gladly lose 2 points of toughness for an invul OR AV 12. Problem is they aren't really mechanized walkers.. or.. are they? I know their basically mechanized zombies.. it's a hard one that. Either way, taking a MC at 115 points or so that dies in one shooting phase to three shots from laz/plas spam is pretty annoying. Furthermore, Wraithbone armor grants warlocks a 4+ invul. I dont see why a giant shell of wraithbone armor doesn't provide an invul to the big boys of the army.

2: Ulthwe and other specific Craftworlds went out the window long ago and thankfully so. It's confusing enough keeping up with Marine variants. Compare the humble guardian to the dark eldar warrior and you fall shy -1 init, -1 BS, 12" of shooting, and no poison on a STR 3 weapon. Guardians are terrible for their points and should be adjusted to be in line with the current range of codex out there.

3: Dire Avengers are currently only useful as a 5 man upgrade to a vehicle. Yea yea, bladestorm and doom and all that jazz but right now they are going to get mulched after shooting by any fleet D-Eldar list, any B-Angels assault marines, any ork boys on a waaaugh, pretty much any other eldar unit... it just.. it doesnt make sense for a dying race with unparalleled technology to shoot from within charge range of the enemy.

4: The "questionably best" eldar assault unit in the game is also the most numerous aspect among the eldar. It also would give the army the ability to play another playstyle that it currently cannot. Notice I didnt try to shift scorpions around? Banshees should be allowed to be troops.

5: Eldar getting a single assault transport is hardly gamebreaking and again, it allows Eldar to have multiple playstyles. Right now you only see WW Spam, Jetbike council, or dual council played to any real effect in a tournament. Did you look at the last Ard Boyz results at all?

6: So only Marines are allowed BS4 on transports? It's cool to have 45 point Rhino's with the same destructive power as a wave serpent for 55 points? Your saying that 1 AV and the fast skimmer rule is worth another 100 points? I'm not buying that. I think that our tanks should have BS4 because our guardians should have BS4, and Guardians fly the tanks.

I'm going to assume you dont play Eldar at all, and that you simply don't like the idea of another army gaining and REAL strength to the competitive level of marines or DE. That's reflected in your "Now you know how the DE feel." What is that supposed to mean? Buffs in 40k are like affirmative action? Since DE had it bad for years they're the only ones allowed to gain any edge in an update? In order for Eldar to play and win and not simply play for draws against DE, BA, IG, and GK's, they need a substanial jump in power.

And yes, smartass, it does sound like "new codex". Which is why I posted in the first place. I was pointing out that unlike a lot of posters in here, I dont care whats plastic or whats finecast, I just want the playability of my army to improve and I want options in feasible listbuilding.

Thunderfrog wrote:
1: Wraithlords are T10, not 7.

You're both wrong.

I'd like to see the codex add lots of bits and pieces but not change too much to do with the aspect warriors really as I think they all serve their purpose in their own way, however the phoenix lords need balancing against characters in general points wise and surely all have inv. saves? Be nice to see more people playing them rather than being ditched for duel farseers and jump pack walkers sound cooooooooool!!!!

DarknessEternal wrote:

Thunderfrog wrote:
1: Wraithlords are T10, not 7.

You're both wrong.

T8... Survey says? Ding Ding Ding!!!

He said felt, past tense as to how the DE players felt when eldar were updated, DE were not for over a decade.
DA are in troops as they are the most numerous shrines, while fluffwise Banshees might be also numerous for shrines they are still an elite choice, full power weapon unit as a troops choice? Sounds like it is not strength you are wanting for the army, but broken choices.
Guardians are trained to the level of a general guardsman, so basic military training as reflected in their stat line, and why they are the common troop choice, which also have an assault variant if you want a more assault orientated playstyle.
The ability to take more than one warlock power would make the unit a lot more useful, perhaps locks allowed 2 powers, but still using one per turn.
Farseers the ability to use 2 as standard, stones for a third would have them respected as psykers and not just on par with marines using 2 per turn.

I have already said that against DE warriors guardians are need of a severe overhaul as well.
And yes, I play eldar myself, have done since RT.

Honestly though 40k codex creep is starting to become a major reason to just stop playing totally. Your example of comparing the army's transports to marines is starting to make me think players and GW just expect marines vs marines battles.

I have to be honest, when I first glanced at the title of this thread I thought that "small, far away" was a subtitle to the thread rather than the posters username!

Not a bad omen I hope?

Unfortunately me defending myself is likely to start derailing this thread, so unless someone just really pushes a button I'll try to refrain from coming back in here unless it's to comment on what someone else has to say..

1: Wraithlord Toughness.. Whoops!

2: I don't want broken choices, I want choices on par with what other codexes have. Asking for BS 4 on an expensive core choice that isnt survivable at all isn't broken. If DE, BA and GK are the standard line of power now, all new codexes should be in line with them. Besides, full power weapons are humbled by Str3/T3 and 1 attack base. Compare that to the taken as troops deathcult assassins and you fall way short of the standard mark.

Again, I don't want anything stronger than the other books have. I just want to be on the same curve. 40k codex creep sucks, it really does, but not liking it doesnt mean that my army should be ignored by it and left with a single 45 point bright lance shot only available on a 135pt transport when DE can take 3 of them for less on a mobile platform with AV and a 5+ ward with higher BS for less points.

Vermillion wrote:
Honestly though 40k codex creep is starting to become a major reason to just stop playing totally. Your example of comparing the army's transports to marines is starting to make me think players and GW just expect marines vs marines battles.

Ayup...

CalgarsPimpHand wrote:

Vermillion wrote:
Honestly though 40k codex creep is starting to become a major reason to just stop playing totally. Your example of comparing the army's transports to marines is starting to make me think players and GW just expect marines vs marines battles.

Ayup...

Wait, I forgot it's now marines vs. marines or marines vs god marines. That codex and army concept shouldn't have been done, single squads of awesomeness was fine and fitted their rarer than fairly priced GW products fluff .

Thunderfrog wrote:I don't want broken choices, I want choices on par with what other codexes have.

Rest assured Gw GW made 5 killer codexes in a row that are on par with eachother (even if they blow away pre 5th ed codexes) by the time they actually get to the Eldar codex it'll be spot on competively.

As far as the assault transport issue. When over half the armies in the game have access to an assault transport (ya know the 6 flavors of marine that have access to a Land Raider or Storm Raven, or the Orcs and Dark Eldars who have access to open tops they can assault out of) I don't really see the problem with leveling the playing field for the two or three armies left in the game who can't assault out of a transport. The notion of getting out of a transport and getting to assault only after getting shot at by squad after squad is totally BS (and I don't mean Ballistic Skill). And both of the Eldar's current jump troops aren't assault based they're shooty jumpers.

Anyways this thread is becoming that other thread with the proposed rules for the new Eldar Codex that's been around for months. Thanks very much for posting pictures from Games Day and some actual rumors (lol, actual rumors = oxymoron).

And Lunahound I haven't seen a post from you in forever. I thought you died. Good to see you again.

Will be drooling and waiting patiently for more pics and rumors (even if the sources are less than stable).

Yea. It sucks that anything concrete is soooo far off. Out of curiosity has GW ever converted a FW model into a regular use option? Eldar got some neat FW goodies recently.

Im surprised at some of the Stickmonkey hate. I thought the majority of people considered his rumors fairly sound.

Thunderfrog wrote:Yea. It sucks that anything concrete is soooo far off. Out of curiosity has GW ever converted a FW model into a regular use option? Eldar got some neat FW goodies recently.

Im surprised at some of the Stickmonkey hate. I thought the majority of people considered his rumors fairly sound.

Yes the Night Spinner is one of the items that used to be a FW only item.

So is the Tyranid Trygon. With this they actually enchanced the product by fluffing for and adding options for the Trygon Prime and the Mawloc.

AustonT wrote:Ahh a wish list with ridiculous hopes and dreams, reminds me of a young senator from Illinois.

Thunderfrog wrote:In my opinion I'm far less worried about models and new units than I am the rules and points adjustments for whatever they decide to go with.

Wriathguard need a 5+ invul and a points reduction if stuck with 12" range.

Wraithlords need a 5+ invul.
On top of being T7 how bout no Scott. They need an AV...again or to remain as is
Guardians need BS 4.
only if they are Uthwe
Avenger Catapults need a longer range.
longer than what? Regular catapults? Done
Banshees should become a core choice.
So that you can bring 6 of what is ultimately the best Eldar assault unit and not have to make a choice between that or the eldar tank busters? That sounds like a unit that belongs in elites to me.
Eldar need at least 1 tank with the assault vehicle designation.
Need is such a funny word, it's not enough that all Eldar tanks are fast skimmers with some of the best weapons options in the game (vice 4e pricing), now they 'need' an assault rule.
Grav Tanks all need BS 4.
Yes they need BS4 the way IG tanks need BS4

Vypers, Swooping Hawks, Warp Spiders, Wraithguard, Phoenix Lords, and Autarchs all need rules/options/wargear/price adjustments.
this is often called "a new codex"
I'm so jealous of the D Eldar codex. They can take so many options and everything but the Mandrakes are solid choices.

I just want to be on par with our dark cousins.
now you know what DE players have felt like for years.

Nice one, friend, I couldn't agree more. Everybody seems to want their 5 minutes in the sun don't they? Having said that, I am looking forward to new rules/models etc.

BTW, I noticed on the picture of the warlock sculpt that it was set in a slotta base unlike the guardian. Does anyone with knowledge of these things know if at this concept stage GW would have already designated the warlock as finecast rather than plastic? I reckon this model would probably be done in FC, however it's something to look out for I suppose...

MightyGodzilla wrote:
Rest assured Gw GW made 5 killer codexes in a row that are on par with eachother (even if they blow away pre 5th ed codexes) by the time they actually get to the Eldar codex it'll be spot on competively.

I've always thought that Eldar would come out 6 months before 6th edition that changes the game such that the codex is full of broken, non-rules.

Considering that's what happened that last two times, it seems like the precedent is there.

Kid_Kyoto wrote:SIGH

I really hate how GW keeps retconning their fluff.

I mean from Rogue Trader up through 5th edition it's been clear that the Eldar are a race in decline, on the edge of extinction.

They should be cutting the number of eldar units, not expanding them! Surely it would be more fluffy if the next codex eliminated Scorpions and Dark Reapers, or at least Shinning Spears and Swooping Hawks.

Instead they're adding more units.

We should boycott the Eldar until GW finally starts living up to its fluff!

Yes, the Craftworld Eldar are in decline, but what of the Exodites?

And of course there's no reason to suggest that certain Aspects wouldn't fall out of favour while others increase. The Eldar swap paths, from warrior to sculptor to pilot and many more It's very feasible that, say, the number of painters and poets may decrease in times of war, bolstering the numbers walking the path of the Aspect Warriors and thus older and nigh-extinct Shrines would be resurrected in times of dire need.

DarknessEternal wrote:

MightyGodzilla wrote:
Rest assured Gw GW made 5 killer codexes in a row that are on par with eachother (even if they blow away pre 5th ed codexes) by the time they actually get to the Eldar codex it'll be spot on competively.

I've always thought that Eldar would come out 6 months before 6th edition that changes the game such that the codex is full of broken, non-rules.

Considering that's what happened that last two times, it seems like the precedent is there.

3rd ed Eldar came out in August 1999, 10 months after the 3rd edition of 40k was released.
4th ed Eldar came out in Novemeber of 2006, 2 years and 3 months after 4th ed 40k. 5th ed was July of 2008 so the 4th ed codex only got 20 months of goodness before the new edition came out and fudged a bunch of stuff up. 3rd ed was usable for much longer, even though I liked the 4th ed codex much better. So I see what you're saying. The (a) problem is that the edition changes every 4 years. If GW happened to nail down the rules a bit more they could strech out that four years to 6 or so (3rd ed was 10-1998 to 4th ed 8-2004, 6 six years) making codices viable a little longer.

MightyGodzilla wrote:
As far as the assault transport issue. When over half the armies in the game have access to an assault transport (ya know the 6 flavors of marine that have access to a Land Raider or Storm Raven, or the Orcs and Dark Eldars who have access to open tops they can assault out of) I don't really see the problem with leveling the playing field for the two or three armies left in the game who can't assault out of a transport. The notion of getting out of a transport and getting to assault only after getting shot at by squad after squad is totally BS (and I don't mean Ballistic Skill). And both of the Eldar's current jump troops aren't assault based they're shooty jumpers.

The only way that Eldar getting an assault vehicle would be remotely balanced would be if those vehicles were not able to take any of the most popular Eldar vehicle upgrades.

The DE and Ork assault vehicles are mostly AV10 and open topped. The only one better has side armor 12 and is open topped. The open topped rule means that 50% of penetrating hits will destroy the vehicle, assuming no AP1. Yes, both armies have the ability to mitigate shooting to a degree with invulnerable or cover saves, but that doesn't eliminate the fact that it doesn't take much shooting to kill them. Additionally, DE pay a premium for their assault transports, in that a Raider costs almost twice as much as the new Rhinos.

Land Raiders are assault vehicles, but they're not Fast and they are just as capable of dieing to a single lascannon or meltagun as any other vehicle. Additionally, they start out at 250 points, and aren't as survivable as most Eldar vehicles that cost half to two thirds that much.

In my opinion, a fast, skimmer, assault vehicle that has the survivability of the current Falcon with all its toys should start around 300 points.

As much as I want my banshees assaulting the turn they disembark after zooming up the table I'm forced to agree. With our gravtanks being amongst the best tanks in the game imo simply because of stones and holo fields an assault transport would be a premium price.
So pretty much what we pay just now for our transports?
To balance this out however a variant of the venom for small assault squads, or a turret weaponless WS? But given the falcon has bigger guns at a smaller transport capability I could see that being an issue.

For me, it's just the survivability. I have no problem with Eldar having an assault vehicle, as long as it cannot take holo-fields, for the most part. An assault vehicle with that much resiliency carrying units of Banshees would be just plain stupid.

(Holo-fields are the one that makes you roll two dice and pick the lowest for dmg results, right? I always get the names of the fields mixed up.)

Vermillion wrote:To balance this out however a variant of the venom for small assault squads, or a turret weaponless WS?

The suggestion I made once elsewhere for a fluffy Eldar assault vehicle was to let the occupants of a Wave Serpent charge a unit that has been hit by the WS's Tank Shock. This wouldn't be as overpowered as an unconditional assault ramp (since you'd risk disruption by Death or Glory attacks, and would have a shorter range since you have to deploy behind the WS), and would provide an obvious in-universe mechanic for why it works. Plus, the mental image is cool.

Agrees with both Vermillion and Saldiven. I don't have a problem with tweeking points cost or survivability on proposed transport or introducing a new transport designated for assault. And for all we know 6th ed may revamp the assault section yet again as it applies to carried troops. But as it stands now, I'd like something to be done.

And yes Holo-fields are the one that makes you roll two dice and pick the lowest for damage results.

thunderfrog wrote:I'm going to assume you dont play Eldar at all, and that you simply don't like the idea of another army gaining and REAL strength to the competitive level of marines or DE. That's reflected in your "Now you know how the DE feel." What is that supposed to mean? Buffs in 40k are like affirmative action? Since DE had it bad for years they're the only ones allowed to gain any edge in an update? In order for Eldar to play and win and not simply play for draws against DE, BA, IG, and GK's, they need a substanial jump in power

My heart fair bleeds for you. Naming off the most recent codexes and QQ because you have to play for a draw. The truth is in competent hands the 4e Eldar codex is highly competitive and has a plethora of choices. If your game is determined by the tournament meta, that's a personal problem.
Not every codex has to have what everyone else has otherwise we might as well all play SM. Which is apparently what you would like. No, Thundertoad Eldar should not have assault vehicles in addition to thier already abundant panoply of vehicle upgrades. Guardians shall remain the same as they always have, cheap useless troop choices to hold down objectives and shield weapons platforms. And you and Mat Ward can sit in the corner and scheme about how awesome it would be to make Howling Banshees 4s a across with 2A a 3+ save and Jump Packs.

Thunderfrog - civilian militia who have never picked a gun up should NTO be BS4. They are BS3 because they are inherently as good as trained guardsmen.

And yes, Fast, Skimmer is worth a LOT of points. Ditto the extra front and side AV

Small, Far Away wrote:These appeared on BOLS this morning.

Eldar mid to late 2012. Possibly 1st or 2nd official 6 ed codex

Guardians being redone. Will include new weapons platform and storm guardian bits.

Avatar getting new fine cast version with weapon options (spear/sword) not as big as FW model, but larger than current.

Lots of new mech options. Jump pack/jet options for walkers similar to new FW models, but unclear if this is new model or upgrade to current model. Upgrade packs don't seem likely, and current model is decent, so I have my doubts about this rumor completely.

New tank options...built on wave serpent/falcon chassis still. Hydra like flak turret, Bonuses against flyers and skimmers. Dcannon tank. And some pulse cannon monster tank...scorpion?

New jet bikes and vypers.

New warlock sculpts.

New aspect sculpts, aspects still likely fine cast.

Some sort of shimmershield device. Portable cover save for a unit, but static once deployed...model in design for it. Sounds fishy to me? But the de have the portal...who knows, I say unlikely.

From obvious dept comes the nightwing and some form of bomber. Neither look at all like de ships, or existing FW. Definitely eldar.

Drop pod of some sort that can carry 20 troops, 10 wraith guard, or 1 wraith lord. Deploys as firebase that has higher cover rating for guardians. Sounds like a bastion that drops into play with a weapons platform attached. Not sure I buy into this rumor completely, it seems too complex the way it's been described. And I never saw any evidence of this in design before.

Cheers. Still super long off, though. Have your salt handy.

From Stickmonkey

Discuss.

The Jump Jets might be more truthful than we think. The Forgeworld variant War Walker doesn't feature in the IA Apocalypse 2nd Edition. All the other stuff is, barring the Asoect Warriors. It's possibly just a coincidence, but raises my eyebrow if nothing else.

nosferatu1001 wrote:Thunderfrog - civilian militia who have never picked a gun up should NTO be BS4. They are BS3 because they are inherently as good as trained guardsmen.

Guardians are Eldar not currently on any Aspect path. That does not mean they've never picked up a gun, either as an ex-Aspect Warrior or simply in their hundreds of years of life.

Thunderfrog wrote:In my opinion I'm far less worried about models and new units than I am the rules and points adjustments for whatever they decide to go with.

Wriathguard need a 5+ invul and a points reduction if stuck with 12" range.

Wraithlords need a 5+ invul.

Guardians need BS 4.

Avenger Catapults need a longer range.

Banshees should become a core choice.

Eldar need at least 1 tank with the assault vehicle designation.

Grav Tanks all need BS 4.

Vypers, Swooping Hawks, Warp Spiders, Wraithguard, Phoenix Lords, and Autarchs all need rules/options/wargear/price adjustments.

I'm so jealous of the D Eldar codex. They can take so many options and everything but the Mandrakes are solid choices.

I just want to be on par with our dark cousins.

I agree with every bit of this. Sept the part about banshees. If that happened you might as well just play DE with Wyches.

Hmm very good point. comparing a codex which is now the oldest bar necrons I believe (ignoring the SoB "update" 2 nd oldest) to the past couple is extremely skewing the comparison. Especially as they were written in different editions. The eldar vehicles are priced perfectly for a system where they could move 12" and fire one weapon above str 6 and all weapons str 6 or below for example .

And as an eldar player I don't play for the draw unless I'm getting hammered already, so dunno what he's on about there. The eldar still have a fight in them, even with current codex woes.

Thunderfrog wrote:1: Wraithlords are T10, not 7. I'd gladly lose 2 points of toughness for an invul OR AV 12. Problem is they aren't really mechanized walkers.. or.. are they? I know their basically mechanized zombies.. it's a hard one that. Either way, taking a MC at 115 points or so that dies in one shooting phase to three shots from laz/plas spam is pretty annoying. Furthermore, Wraithbone armor grants warlocks a 4+ invul. I dont see why a giant shell of wraithbone armor doesn't provide an invul to the big boys of the army.

2: Ulthwe and other specific Craftworlds went out the window long ago and thankfully so. It's confusing enough keeping up with Marine variants. Compare the humble guardian to the dark eldar warrior and you fall shy -1 init, -1 BS, 12" of shooting, and no poison on a STR 3 weapon. Guardians are terrible for their points and should be adjusted to be in line with the current range of codex out there.

3: Dire Avengers are currently only useful as a 5 man upgrade to a vehicle. Yea yea, bladestorm and doom and all that jazz but right now they are going to get mulched after shooting by any fleet D-Eldar list, any B-Angels assault marines, any ork boys on a waaaugh, pretty much any other eldar unit... it just.. it doesnt make sense for a dying race with unparalleled technology to shoot from within charge range of the enemy.

4: The "questionably best" eldar assault unit in the game is also the most numerous aspect among the eldar. It also would give the army the ability to play another playstyle that it currently cannot. Notice I didnt try to shift scorpions around? Banshees should be allowed to be troops.

5: Eldar getting a single assault transport is hardly gamebreaking and again, it allows Eldar to have multiple playstyles. Right now you only see WW Spam, Jetbike council, or dual council played to any real effect in a tournament. Did you look at the last Ard Boyz results at all?

6: So only Marines are allowed BS4 on transports? It's cool to have 45 point Rhino's with the same destructive power as a wave serpent for 55 points? Your saying that 1 AV and the fast skimmer rule is worth another 100 points? I'm not buying that. I think that our tanks should have BS4 because our guardians should have BS4, and Guardians fly the tanks.

I'm going to assume you dont play Eldar at all, and that you simply don't like the idea of another army gaining and REAL strength to the competitive level of marines or DE. That's reflected in your "Now you know how the DE feel." What is that supposed to mean? Buffs in 40k are like affirmative action? Since DE had it bad for years they're the only ones allowed to gain any edge in an update? In order for Eldar to play and win and not simply play for draws against DE, BA, IG, and GK's, they need a substanial jump in power.

And yes, smartass, it does sound like "new codex". Which is why I posted in the first place. I was pointing out that unlike a lot of posters in here, I dont care whats plastic or whats finecast, I just want the playability of my army to improve and I want options in feasible listbuilding.

Wraithlords are T8. Shuriken Catapults as S4, not S3. Are you sure that you play Eldar? Rhinos have the same destructive power as a Wave Serpent? Oddly, my rhinos have never come with the option of Twin Linked Heavy Weapons on the top.....

And why should Bumshees, and not Scorpions, be shunted into Troops? Why not both? Is it because you just want a poo load of Power Weapons? Or is it the old reasoning of 'I PLAY ELDAR!' Oh, and there is no basis in the background for BS4 Guardians. If there was, they would be, and Aspect warriors would be at least BS5....

Mr Mystery wrote:
there is no basis in the background for BS4 Guardians.

Rogue Trader, page 178, all Eldar = WS4, BS4.

Slinky wrote:

Mr Mystery wrote:
there is no basis in the background for BS4 Guardians.

Rogue Trader, page 178, all Eldar = WS4, BS4.

RT as in the old rulebook?

Well by that measure werent the orks at one point very good marksmen? Well not all of them but I remember seeing one with BS4 or 5. I wish some of the orks these days had that

But really BS4 guardians doesnt bother me too much, they dont do that much anyways

Slinky wrote:

Mr Mystery wrote:
there is no basis in the background for BS4 Guardians.

Rogue Trader, page 178, all Eldar = WS4, BS4.

Oh snap!

Slinky wrote:

Mr Mystery wrote:
there is no basis in the background for BS4 Guardians.

Rogue Trader, page 178, all Eldar = WS4, BS4.

Plus, the fluff states that the most talented human dancer/gymnast could never hope to replicate the most simple of Eldar movements...

...yet, stick a gun in their hands and they're all fingers and thumbs

AlexHolker wrote:

nosferatu1001 wrote:Thunderfrog - civilian militia who have never picked a gun up should NTO be BS4. They are BS3 because they are inherently as good as trained guardsmen.

Guardians are Eldar not currently on any Aspect path. That does not mean they've never picked up a gun, either as an ex-Aspect Warrior or simply in their hundreds of years of life.

Yet we know, from background stories including path of the seer, that Guardians are predominantly composed of those who have not been on a path. So, they are NOT trained and are yet as good as trained guardsmen. Its called "compromise", sorry but thats all there is to it. If it was a D100 scale there may be a way to represent BS3.4 (assuming as high as 40% of a craftworld have been on a path of the warrior, which is laughable given the background) but there isnt, so you get BS3. Continued eldar player (should i say other eldar players? I play them and i see the point) crying about this is boring.

And characters used to br BS/WS 7, so since everything has been reduced I can live with the guardians at BS/WS 3. Also that was before the warrior paths were introduced and I think referred to the eldar pirates?
I'm fairly sure guardians when introduced as craftworld guardians in RT were BS/WS 3? Not got stuff to check anywhere near me though.
And yes, orks used to be able to hit things shooting, and also used bolters, melta guns, power weapons, plasma weaponry etc

That was also back when a single character could have 10 Jokaero digital flamers to shoot 10 small flame templates in the shooting phase.

And when Zoats were a playable race.

And in fantasy at that time, Elementals had a stat-line of 10 accross the board. As they lost wounds, all of their stats dropped by one for each wound lost.

Things have changed a lot in 23 years.

Flashman wrote:

Slinky wrote:

Mr Mystery wrote:
there is no basis in the background for BS4 Guardians.

Rogue Trader, page 178, all Eldar = WS4, BS4.

Plus, the fluff states that the most talented human dancer/gymnast could never hope to replicate the most simple of Eldar movements...

...yet, stick a gun in their hands and they're all fingers and thumbs

Not to mention that if you stick them in a tank, they artfully miss half of the time, although they do get around to putting proper shooters into fire prisms...

Flashman wrote:
Plus, the fluff states that the most talented human dancer/gymnast could never hope to replicate the most simple of Eldar movements...

...yet, stick a gun in their hands and they're all fingers and thumbs

And Death Cult Assassins make trained Eldar murderers look like clumsy children.

Flashman wrote:

...yet, stick a gun in their hands and they're all fingers and thumbs

Isn't anyone with a hand 'all fingers and thumbs'?!?

Introduce the "Eagle Pilot" aspect warriors that we've seen occasionally the fluff and make Falcons/Vypers/etc BS4. Done.

*sigh* I personally am not looking forward to an Eldar update any time soon.

#1. Bandwagon Jumpers

#2. GW's fickle "Congrats this unit sucks now, go buy $200 of the new shiney"

#3. The off chance of becoming a Nids codex

#4. The almost certain nerfbat to the face of Runes of Warding

BlueDagger wrote:*sigh* I personally am not looking forward to an Eldar update any time soon.

#1. Bandwagon Jumpers

#2. GW's fickle "Congrats this unit sucks now, go buy $200 of the new shiney"

#3. The off chance of becoming a Nids codex

#4. The almost certain nerfbat to the face of Runes of Warding

lol I agree with you actually. People insist on complaining, but IMO eldar are still quite competitive and I love playing them personally. I'm not a win-at-all-costs type of guy though. I love most of the models as it is, though new warlock and farseer models are always welcome. But yes, the worst part will be the bandwagoneers.

Carpet baggers. That's what I call them, and if they dont understand the historical context it's like a double win for me.

Bandwagoners should be seen as a good thing.

Surely you hipsters may get upset that people are playing your army or whatnot, but the more people playing non-SM armies the better. GW may actually see that Xenos armies actually can sell.

Plus, most of the bandwagonning is enabled by GW releasing multiple SM codecies and people taking their blue "Omega Space Marines" and substituting them for Salamanders, Space Wolves, Blood Angels, Dark Angels, Black Templars, or even Grey Knights.

The more stuff they (the bandwagoners) buy from your army means that GW will put more stuff for said army. It's a win situation.

I really don't understand hipsters.

Well there is a Paradox for you, the more people that buy into an army after it's update, the more stuff they will put into their update

Hipsters has nothing to do with it. It has to do with the fact is that the more people that play your army, the more people that will have to meta against it. Currently things that work against the meta game struggle against Eldar.

Absolutionis wrote:
GW may actually see that Xenos armies actually can sell.

Your optimism is inspiring.



Respek.

I have no problem whatsoever with band-wagoners/carpet baggers.

Really - who cares?

Now, taking away the Wraithlord's "T" value and giving it an "AV" value?

No thanks!

I would LOVE for my Space Marine Dreadnoughts to have "T" instead of "AV"!

Alpharius wrote:I have no problem whatsoever with band-wagoners/carpet baggers.

Really - who cares?

Now, taking away the Wraithlord's "T" value and giving it an "AV" value?

No thanks!

I would LOVE for my Space Marine Dreadnoughts to have "T" instead of "AV"!

To be fair Alpharius, I don't think Wraithlords will get an Armour Value. Simply because they'd have to justify why Wraithlord Wraithbone is AV, while Wraithguard Wraithbone has a T value.

Iranna.

Thunderfrog wrote:In my opinion I'm far less worried about models and new units than I am the rules and points adjustments for whatever they decide to go with.

Wriathguard need a 5+ invul and a points reduction if stuck with 12" range.

Wraithlords need a 5+ invul.

Guardians need BS 4.

Avenger Catapults need a longer range.

Banshees should become a core choice.

Eldar need at least 1 tank with the assault vehicle designation.

Grav Tanks all need BS 4.

Vypers, Swooping Hawks, Warp Spiders, Wraithguard, Phoenix Lords, and Autarchs all need rules/options/wargear/price adjustments.

I'm so jealous of the D Eldar codex. They can take so many options and everything but the Mandrakes are solid choices.

I just want to be on par with our dark cousins.

I like the idea of Wraithlords having a high toughness, regenerating wounds, no armour save, a minor invuln save (5+/6+) and Eternal Warrior. This would help make them a little more unique and capable of reaching the enemy.

Guardians should be BS3 (they're hardly veteran troops) but should get 18" catapults to give them more of a chance against enemy assault units with Fleet.

Avenger catapults should be 24", as they're essentially object-holding fire support units.

Banshees should should be elites. I10 troops with power weapons holding objectives sounds so very broken to me.

I liked the idea of the wave serpents being assault vehicles if they tank shock first. It introduces an element of risk and limits the targets that can be hit (you don't want to be doing it to the guys sitting in cover with a powerfist). Perhaps it should be an upgrade that excludes holo-fields or spirit stones.

Fire prisms are already BS4, wave serpents are twin-linked and do not need it. Falcons could maybe have the option of the old 'crystal targeting matrix' upgrade that gives them +1 BS or treats their weapons as TL.

BlueDagger wrote:*sigh* I personally am not looking forward to an Eldar update any time soon.

#1. Bandwagon Jumpers

#2. GW's fickle "Congrats this unit sucks now, go buy $200 of the new shiney"

#3. The off chance of becoming a Nids codex

#4. The almost certain nerfbat to the face of Runes of Warding

You forgot....

#5 Eldar swoop in to save some Orks from a Nid swarm then exchange high fives on their way out to a Necron Rave.

TalonZahn wrote:

BlueDagger wrote:*sigh* I personally am not looking forward to an Eldar update any time soon.

#1. Bandwagon Jumpers

#2. GW's fickle "Congrats this unit sucks now, go buy $200 of the new shiney"

#3. The off chance of becoming a Nids codex

#4. The almost certain nerfbat to the face of Runes of Warding

You forgot....

#5 Eldar swoop in to save some Orks from a Nid swarm then exchange high fives on their way out to a Necron Rave.

If anyone could feasibly have a reason, it would probably be Eldar.

Farseer: "If these Orks get wiped by Tyranids then they won't assault a Tau Outpost sometime in the next 50 years. If that outpost is unchallenged then they will expand and attack a unknown craftworld and destroy it!"

Guardian: "Um.. Farseer.. why not move the Craftworld?"

Farseer: "There's no time. That craftworld is on it's way to a Necron rave in the same galaxy. If they don't attend then they just wasted 150 Space Elf dollars on glow sticks."

Alpharius wrote:
I would LOVE for my Space Marine Dreadnoughts to have "T" instead of "AV"!

Oh hell yes. I'd love to get to shoot with a Dreadnought more than once a game...

I'm looking forward to Eldar for a few reasons. A big one is so that my Eldar playing friend can get some plastic Howling Banshees that don't break everytime he moves them (seriously. Evey game, one will break) or a Wraithguard that doesn't look like he's hugging his gun like a security blanket...

Lt. Coldfire wrote:

BlueDagger wrote:*sigh* I personally am not looking forward to an Eldar update any time soon.

#1. Bandwagon Jumpers

#2. GW's fickle "Congrats this unit sucks now, go buy $200 of the new shiney"

#3. The off chance of becoming a Nids codex

#4. The almost certain nerfbat to the face of Runes of Warding

lol I agree with you actually. People insist on complaining, but IMO eldar are still quite competitive and I love playing them personally. I'm not a win-at-all-costs type of guy though. I love most of the models as it is, though new warlock and farseer models are always welcome. But yes, the worst part will be the bandwagoneers.

I am glad I am not alone, I was starting to feel in a minority saying the codex is at least still playable!
And at least with bandwagoneers it's eldar vs. eldar which has a lot more variations and interest to a game than Marines vs marines unless your list and your opponents involves 5 DA in a vehicle... I dread to see such a game.

Vermillion wrote:

Lt. Coldfire wrote:

BlueDagger wrote:*sigh* I personally am not looking forward to an Eldar update any time soon.

#1. Bandwagon Jumpers

#2. GW's fickle "Congrats this unit sucks now, go buy $200 of the new shiney"

#3. The off chance of becoming a Nids codex

#4. The almost certain nerfbat to the face of Runes of Warding

lol I agree with you actually. People insist on complaining, but IMO eldar are still quite competitive and I love playing them personally. I'm not a win-at-all-costs type of guy though. I love most of the models as it is, though new warlock and farseer models are always welcome. But yes, the worst part will be the bandwagoneers.

I am glad I am not alone, I was starting to feel in a minority saying the codex is at least still playable!
And at least with bandwagoneers it's eldar vs. eldar which has a lot more variations and interest to a game than Marines vs marines unless your list and your opponents involves 5 DA in a vehicle... I dread to see such a game.

Shhh... don't let people know we are still good or I'll stop winning 90% of my games

...Black Guardians used to have either WS 4 or BS 4 (one of each upgrade max) in the Ulthwe variant in 3rd edition depending on if they were Storms/Defenders. Additionally, there was the Ulthwe Strike Force in Codex: Eye of Terror where you had a Webway Portal Craftworld Eldar list that couldn't bring any of the heavy stuff/a fair few of the Aspect Warriors but could bring Black Guardian Vypers/War Walkers in addition to the normal mix of Black Guardians.

Just saying...this was back in 3rd ed and pre-current codex.

Yep and the webway portal idea was one I really enjoyed.
Thing is I regrettably see the designers giving eldar players more special characters so that there are craftworld variants once again with how popular the marine variant style is.
Unless ofcourse they take this away in the 6th edition vanilla marine codex when 6th ed comes out and then we shall know for the following (hopefully) eldar codex.
Not holding my breath either way though

kronk wrote:

Alpharius wrote:
I would LOVE for my Space Marine Dreadnoughts to have "T" instead of "AV"!

Oh hell yes. I'd love to get to shoot with a Dreadnought more than once a game...

That sums it up nicely!

Only downside to the T on the walkers is snipers, it makes me wince watching them get peppered with shots. And some nurgle banner which did 3 unsavable wounds to one a couple of CSM codicies ago.

Vermillion wrote:Only downside to the T on the walkers is snipers, it makes me wince watching them get peppered with shots. And some nurgle banner which did 3 unsavable wounds to one a couple of CSM codicies ago.

Being a nid player, I can think of several downsides to having a T value. Increasing ammount of poison weapons in the game...especially when there is a fairly popular army (DE) that spams them at long range. Increasing ammount of ID weapons in the game...especially when there is a fairly popular army (GK) that spams them to such an extent that it doesn't matter that your toughness 6. Apocolypse D-weapons (Non-Open Top Vehicles still get a 50% of surviving such a weapon; where as MC which lack a invul save auto die). MC are normally priced significantly higher than mechanized units with similar outputs. AV 11 up is normally immune to small arms fire. AV in 5th edition has more staying power against common missle or laz/plaz spam. AV often have access to cheap wargear that grant auto cover (Disruption fields, Smoke Launchers, Ect) which most MC lack. AV takes only 1/2 strength hits from blast weapons when the center isn't over hull; allows you to group vehicles together without fear of a blast damaging multiple vehicles.

Dread might only shoot more than 1 turn a game, but I would like my Carnie to simply survive 1 turn of the game without an escort.

Please...PLEASE just fix my dang vibro cannons so they are decent to use again!! That and fix all my points for vehicles being stupid high. I have seen a few comparisons of the WS to a Rhino points wise. I think he is comparing base costs and weapons but once you add the required turret the WS points cost goes through the roof, even compared to a razorback.

Looking forward to an army that has more poses then a guy holding a gun at 15 degrees, then guy next to him holding his at 30 degrees, and the next one holding his gun at 45 degrees. Looks like snap action poses heheh.

Alpharius wrote:

kronk wrote:

Alpharius wrote:
I would LOVE for my Space Marine Dreadnoughts to have "T" instead of "AV"!

Oh hell yes. I'd love to get to shoot with a Dreadnought more than once a game...

That sums it up nicely!

T instead of AV?...my Dark Eldar like this idea too!

Killing a Dreadnought with a squad of Wyches shooting with Splinter pistols - priceless!

BlueDagger wrote:*sigh* I personally am not looking forward to an Eldar update any time soon.

#1. Bandwagon Jumpers

#2. GW's fickle "Congrats this unit sucks now, go buy $200 of the new shiney"

#3. The off chance of becoming a Nids codex

#4. The almost certain nerfbat to the face of Runes of Warding

This..

LavuranGuard wrote:

Alpharius wrote:

kronk wrote:

Alpharius wrote:
I would LOVE for my Space Marine Dreadnoughts to have "T" instead of "AV"!

Oh hell yes. I'd love to get to shoot with a Dreadnought more than once a game...

That sums it up nicely!

T instead of AV?...my Dark Eldar like this idea too!

Killing a Dreadnought with a squad of Wyches shooting with Splinter pistols - priceless!

There's one (or two, or three...) in every crowd...

Vermillion wrote:Only downside to the T on the walkers is snipers, it makes me wince watching them get peppered with shots. And some nurgle banner which did 3 unsavable wounds to one a couple of CSM codicies ago.

Snipers....and poisoned weapons. I personally think that a Wraithlord and Wraithguard should not be able to be poisoned.

MightyGodzilla wrote:

Vermillion wrote:Only downside to the T on the walkers is snipers, it makes me wince watching them get peppered with shots. And some nurgle banner which did 3 unsavable wounds to one a couple of CSM codicies ago.

Snipers....and poisoned weapons. I personally think that a Wraithlord and Wraithguard should not be able to be poisoned.

Why don't all Eldar players just demand the Moon On A Stick and be done with it? Seriously, ever since I've been online and posting on Forums, the Eldar players have ALWAYS whinged about something or other!

Mr Mystery wrote:

MightyGodzilla wrote:

Vermillion wrote:Only downside to the T on the walkers is snipers, it makes me wince watching them get peppered with shots. And some nurgle banner which did 3 unsavable wounds to one a couple of CSM codicies ago.

Snipers....and poisoned weapons. I personally think that a Wraithlord and Wraithguard should not be able to be poisoned.

Why don't all Eldar players just demand the Moon On A Stick and be done with it? Seriously, ever since I've been online and posting on Forums, the Eldar players have ALWAYS whinged about something or other!

That's a bit inflammatory.

Besides, Eldar already have moons on a stick, what good would they do?

Mahtamori wrote:

Mr Mystery wrote:

MightyGodzilla wrote:

Vermillion wrote:Only downside to the T on the walkers is snipers, it makes me wince watching them get peppered with shots. And some nurgle banner which did 3 unsavable wounds to one a couple of CSM codicies ago.

Snipers....and poisoned weapons. I personally think that a Wraithlord and Wraithguard should not be able to be poisoned.

Why don't all Eldar players just demand the Moon On A Stick and be done with it? Seriously, ever since I've been online and posting on Forums, the Eldar players have ALWAYS whinged about something or other!

That's a bit inflammatory.

Besides, Eldar already have moons on a stick, what good would they do?

Will you people stop telling people our codex is mostly still workable please, it means more people might take my footdar more seriously in the long run and start plotting their downfall :(

By the argument about not poisoning wraithtroops, then daemons, necrons, most nids arguably due to toxin immunity and ofcourse marines should be immune to poison too . As the rules state, just assume the enemy has special ammo to deal with them, so psychic ammo for poisoning daemons, acid rounds that eat necron living metal etc.

Seriously a couple of units need reworking, and some points adjustments, personally I would do a little overhaul on the HQ section just to see a seer council option there, but given how the farseers work with the eldar army, that is OTT and probably why there wasn't one in the 4th ed codex

AV or Toughness with a rule against poison I'll let the designers figure it out. I just don't envision a saved soul piloting a spirit powered inanimate object falling to poison needles. That's about as far as I'm willing to go. If the designers don't agree with me then so be it. I'm sure I'll have plenty of other units to choose from.

No need to get upset Mr Mystery. I really don't see them changing up how the Wraithlords work.

Alpharius wrote:

LavuranGuard wrote:

Alpharius wrote:

kronk wrote:

Alpharius wrote:
I would LOVE for my Space Marine Dreadnoughts to have "T" instead of "AV"!

Oh hell yes. I'd love to get to shoot with a Dreadnought more than once a game...

That sums it up nicely!

T instead of AV?...my Dark Eldar like this idea too!

Killing a Dreadnought with a squad of Wyches shooting with Splinter pistols - priceless!

There's one (or two, or three...) in every crowd...

Eric Clapton fans? (see what I did there?)

@MightyGodzilla I like not your suggestion! Why not just let the save be protection enough versus poison? At 2+ it'd make them pretty resillient. Anyway we'll have to wait and see.

Mighty - what about charged null field crystals, that shatter the psy pathways used to animate the wraithbone?

You're assuming a simple toxin. Dont

nosferatu1001 wrote:Mighty - what about charged null field crystals, that shatter the psy pathways used to animate the wraithbone?
You're assuming a simple toxin. Dont

Sorry, not buying it. For one thing the Grav Tanks use the same tech as the wraith constructs, and they're not getting splintered to hell. For arguements sake I'll employ the scenario where the Dark Eldar are using the charged null field crystals and they're making their way to the Wraithlord......then the Striking Scorpions jump out of cover to screen. The Dark Eldar fire their poisoned dart meant for the Wraithlord at the quickly approaching Scorpions not having time to change clips (you know because different clips of poisons for different targets) and nothing happens to the Scorpions because they don't particularly have alot of psy pathways....

But you then say the poison is so virulent that it works on everything.....You know what I call that? A melta weapon. If the poison was so virulent that it just works on anything....well targets probably wouldn't be getting armor saves. But it's not, it's just poison, not melta, just poison. We get our saves. And I don't see giant constructs getting poisoned to death....Meltas, missiles, dark lanced, sure. Poison, not so much.

That's just the way the fluff works in my head. The designers may disagree with me, and I mentioned before that if they do it's not a big deal, Eldar have so many slots choices I'd hardly be hurt. If they addressed a different save against poison for wraith constructs I'd be satisfied. As I mentioned before I doubt they will. 50/50, we will have to wait and see.

MightyGodzilla wrote: For one thing the Grav Tanks use the same tech as the wraith constructs,

I was totally waiting for this. So how come Eldar grav tanks don't get invulnerable saves like warlocks? How come Eldar dreadnoughts have a toughness instead of AV. Ah yes, Game mechanics you little rascal! How dare you rear your ugly head.
What they are made of and how it affects each unit is as much game mechanics as fluff. So wraithlords probably can't be poisoned, perhaps manifest destiny errodes thier outer hull and turns them to jelly.
The point is that the fundamental Eldar list WILL NOT CHANGE. The only real question is HOW the list will play. GW issued a policy in the early 2000's that they wouldn't invalidate older models unless they had to. Transport costs in tue book have gone down and on the shelf have gone up. That probably indicates that WS will in fact become cheaper at base cost. But don't go chasing miracles. If you want an open topped assault Eldar army you have one. They are dark and pointy, deal with it. If you want an army with high mobility hard hitting and expensive specialist troops and armor, with median shooting ability welcome to tue infinity circuit.
Just a thought for those of you who think BS3 isn't enough. At 2 points cheaper than a Guardian, shoota boyz are THE most points efficient and deadly model on the table. They only have BS2

Sounds good, all the way up untill the last one. Like people before me have said, it's not in the eldar's way to drop into battle.

MIghty - except it isnt controlled by a dead eldar. That probably helps. Youre also assuming no judge dredd levels of tech - the avility to fire more than one type of weapon

My first army was Eldar, and I really don't see why Wraithguard/lords need protection from poinson. Fluff arguments aren't worth anything here, we need game balance arguments.

DE poison weapons are a problem for Wraithstuff. This isn't a problem for me. In fact, this is the kind of stuff I want to see more of in GW games. I want to see more rock/paper/scissors type arrangements where a unit is incredibly destructive to one type of unit but incredibly vulnerable to another. In the old days this mechanism didn't really get expressed very well. "Everyone is vulnerable to star cannons and power weapons, but horde armies just don't care" doesn't quite fit the bill.

Yes, this means that an Iyanden Eldar list that spams wraithstuff is not going to fare well against a poison spam list. It shouldn't.* Any time you make an army that overly focuses on one side of the list you should be extremely vulnerable to a list from the enemy that focuses on the other. Eldar only need some kind of immunity from poison if poison spam can destroy a balanced Eldar army. Can it?

*For friendly games, I would work with my opponent to make a house rule that gives Iyanden a fighting chance. Perhaps the spirit seers can have an upgrade that allows them to reroll poison armor saves for the unit they are in, or something like that. Something that makes the two armies balanced and makes for an interesting game.

Some good rumours... I cant trust these jet, soooo early to say what and when new eldar dex will appear, but these are all we got.

AustonT wrote:

MightyGodzilla wrote: For one thing the Grav Tanks use the same tech as the wraith constructs,

I was totally waiting for this. So how come Eldar grav tanks don't get invulnerable saves like warlocks? How come Eldar dreadnoughts have a toughness instead of AV. Ah yes, Game mechanics you little rascal! How dare you rear your ugly head.
What they are made of and how it affects each unit is as much game mechanics as fluff. So wraithlords probably can't be poisoned, perhaps manifest destiny errodes thier outer hull and turns them to jelly.
The point is that the fundamental Eldar list WILL NOT CHANGE. The only real question is HOW the list will play. GW issued a policy in the early 2000's that they wouldn't invalidate older models unless they had to. Transport costs in tue book have gone down and on the shelf have gone up. That probably indicates that WS will in fact become cheaper at base cost. But don't go chasing miracles. If you want an open topped assault Eldar army you have one. They are dark and pointy, deal with it. If you want an army with high mobility hard hitting and expensive specialist troops and armor, with median shooting ability welcome to tue infinity circuit.
Just a thought for those of you who think BS3 isn't enough. At 2 points cheaper than a Guardian, shoota boyz are THE most points efficient and deadly model on the table. They only have BS2

@ Dreadnought: It's not a dreadnought in any shape or form. The Dreadnought contains a squishy interior and a slightly more squishy exterior than the Wraithlord. As for the rules, the Wraithlord isn't a Dreadnought, it's currently a Carnifex.
@ Invalidating: Currently, there's a lot of invalid models, but I think what you mean. There's nothing inherently wrong with the model-base for the Craftworlders, but the actual performance of the same is a bit on the dodgy-side. Still room for a bit more options, but that's mostly because Craftworld is so specialized when looking at models (it's not like you can customize your aspect warriors the way you can with other codexes).
@ Shootas: The difference is that Shootas also have higher survival due to T4 and significantly better melee ability than Storm Guardians. Essentially you get Storm AND Defender Guardians in the same package for a cheaper price.
BS3 is enough, but the Guardian's equipment leaves something to be desired.

What I personally am hoping is that both Wraithguard (as per rumour) and Guardians are going to get a through look at, more options for both, particularly in the ranged department. And I'm talking about the actual basic models, not appendex models like Warlocks or Platforms.

I'm going with that because Eldar have literally lived for hundreds of years they should get BS 4. guardsmen training maybe 5 or so years Guardian training they don't really stop so if vets get BS 4 for being in combat and training for lets say 10 years shouldn't an Eldar who has better sensory organs like eyes and had much more training time be better? Besides its not like they are hard to kill T3 5+ save.

Eldar may live for hundreds of years, but they are just as happy to spend all that time on pursuits other than martial. Also they take a lot longer to attain what they percieve as perfection.
The bottom line however is this:
Guardians have some martial training, hence BS3, average for having military training. BS4 models take that training to the next level, aspect warriors and in the case of IoM marines.
Fluff arguments mean little in the abstract system of assigning numerical values based on "type" of training a model will be percieved to have had.

FlammingGaunt wrote:I'm going with that because Eldar have literally lived for hundreds of years they should get BS 4. guardsmen training maybe 5 or so years Guardian training they don't really stop so if vets get BS 4 for being in combat and training for lets say 10 years shouldn't an Eldar who has better sensory organs like eyes and had much more training time be better? Besides its not like they are hard to kill T3 5+ save.

Because Guardians aren't a dedicated military unit and are more "citizen soldier" than professional military. Also, game balance. It's good to have a cheap, less effective troops unit in an army that's heavy on expensive cool stuff. Their guns should have 18" range though.

Brother SRM wrote:

FlammingGaunt wrote:I'm going with that because Eldar have literally lived for hundreds of years they should get BS 4. guardsmen training maybe 5 or so years Guardian training they don't really stop so if vets get BS 4 for being in combat and training for lets say 10 years shouldn't an Eldar who has better sensory organs like eyes and had much more training time be better? Besides its not like they are hard to kill T3 5+ save.

Because Guardians aren't a dedicated military unit and are more "citizen soldier" than professional military. Also, game balance. It's good to have a cheap, less effective troops unit in an army that's heavy on expensive cool stuff. Their guns should have 18" range though.

I'd still like them to be back to 24" range. Lets face it, wouldn't break anything, marines still get their save regardless so the poster boys still have the edge

FlammingGaunt wrote:I'm going with that because Eldar have literally lived for hundreds of years they should get BS 4. guardsmen training maybe 5 or so years Guardian training they don't really stop so if vets get BS 4 for being in combat and training for lets say 10 years shouldn't an Eldar who has better sensory organs like eyes and had much more training time be better? Besides its not like they are hard to kill T3 5+ save.

Eldar Guardians are their militia. They spend much of that hundred or so years making paintings or singing to wraithbone. If the Craftworld or Outpost gets attacked, the militia takes up arms.
That being said, this militia has the same accuracy and combat effectiveness of Imperial Guardsmen "requisitioned" for the sole purpose of becoming a soldier.

If an Eldar decides to go the Path of the Warrior, they actually train in becoming a soldier and end up with BS4 after dozens of years. Similarly, if the Eldar goes the PAth of the Exile (Ranger), they take up a sniper rifle and train with that. Ulthwe has (had?) BS4 Guardians because those Black Guardians are their military.
If an Imperial Guardsman survives his squad getting blown up, his homeland wrecked, and dozens of years of trials by fire, be gets rewarded with a BS4 Veteran Status.

Guardians' BS3 makes sense. It's their equipment that doesn't make sense.

The Imperium of Man has amazing technology. Their common soldier (Guardsman) is given awful gear because there is so many of them. Some of their most elite soldiers (Grey Knights, Inquisitors) are given technology that rivals that of Eldar and Necrons.
The Tau have mediocre technology. Their common soldier (Fire Warrior) is given rather good gear because they are a small empire and there aren't that many of them. Some of their most elite soldiers (Hazard Suit Commanders, Stealth Suit Commanders) have somewhat better gear.

The Eldar have technology comparable to the Imperium and the focus/numbers of the Tau. There is no reason Guardians shouldn't be given Aspect Warrior quality armor or those Dire Avenger scoped Shuriken catapults. Keep the BS3. Give the good gear. The Eldar are not poor.

Actually from Path of the Warrior it only takes about half a year (i counted the cycles) to get to aspect levels - it has to be that fast, given the speed they can swap paths. Their war masks allow them to train harder.

Mahtamori wrote:@ Dreadnought: It's not a dreadnought in any shape or form. The Dreadnought contains a squishy interior and a slightly more squishy exterior than the Wraithlord. As for the rules, the Wraithlord isn't a Dreadnought, it's currently a Carnifex.

I get the rest of your post but not this. Allow me to present the wraithlord as a dreadnought in both shape and form.


Invalidated models Eh I couldn't decide what you meant. So Legends also has the 2004 catalogue on digits there is not a model in the 40k section that can't still be legally fielded.

As far as the BS4 Guardian thing goes:

1. Guardians are a Citizen's Militia, which is why their conscripted infantry are as good as trained human Infantry (BS3).
2. Black Guardians were different because they were a standing army. Trained Eldar = BS4 = Elite Human/Space Marine, Militia Eldar = BS3 = Trained Human. Militia/Conscripted Human = BS2. So yes, Eldar are generally better than humans - their militia units are as good as human trained regular army units!
3. Using Rogue Trader as an example (or justification) for BS4 Guardians is, quite frankly, stupid. Back in the RT days people like Leman Russ weren't even Primarchs at the start. Nothing made sense in the RT days. They only started rationalising the 40K universe in 2nd Ed.
4. All that said, how come the Tau (a race technologically inferior to the Eldar in virtually every way) have an upgrade that gives them +1BS yet the Eldar do not.

And, unrelated to the above, the Eldar Wraithlord only became a 'Wraithlord' in 3rd Ed. Up until that point it was called an Eldar Dreadnought. It's just a name folks.

Alpharius wrote:There's one (or two, or three...) in every crowd...

That's because the 40K rules aren't very good, and it never occurred to the writers to think "Hey... maybe Poison shouldn't just be a catch-all rule, because there are things it shouldn't effect/should have less of an impact on!"

The simplest solution is that Poison rules allow for multiple wound types, so you could have a Poison weapon that wounds on 4+/6+, where 4+ is regular infantry, and 6+ is Walkers/Monstrous Creatures. It also allows for all sorts of variation - 2+/4+ for really poisonous things, 6+/6+ for things that are only slightly poisonous, but still poisonous enough that they should have a chance of wounding everything (like supernatural poisons, ie. Nurgle stuff). We've been doing that for years (along with Walkers with T values rather than armour values), it's simple, and it works.

H.B.M.C. wrote:And, unrelated to the above, the Eldar Wraithlord only became a 'Wraithlord' in 3rd Ed. Up until that point it was called an Eldar Dreadnought. It's just a name folks.

Yep, simply to draw a difference between a living operator like marine and ork dreads have and the eldar equivalent powered by spirit stones. Also ofcourse to tie in with wraithguard. So that model, it is no longer a dreadnought, it got renamed in 3rd ed when it was called an eldar wraithlord and was replaced by the the current plastic kit last codex.

The simplest solution is that Poison rules allow for multiple wound types, so you could have a Poison weapon that wounds on 4+/6+, where 4+ is regular infantry, and 6+ is Walkers/Monstrous Creatures. It also allows for all sorts of variation - 2+/4+ for really poisonous things, 6+/6+ for things that are only slightly poisonous, but still poisonous enough that they should have a chance of wounding everything (like supernatural poisons, ie. Nurgle stuff). We've been doing that for years (along with Walkers with T values rather than armour values), it's simple, and it works.

They wont do it, something like that would be way too complicated for the 5 year olds

Vermillion wrote:
... it got renamed in 3rd ed when it was called an eldar wraithlord and was replaced by the the current plastic kit last codex.

It got renamed in 3rd Edition, but the kit came out in 4th edition with the last codex. Its the first codex that allowed them to take a sword rather than a power fist that could strike at I4.

Thats what I said? Well, aside from adding the wraithsword part.

nosferatu1001 wrote:Actually from Path of the Warrior it only takes about half a year (i counted the cycles) to get to aspect levels - it has to be that fast, given the speed they can swap paths. Their war masks allow them to train harder.

Nosferatu... in reply to the above.



Excellent book though.

Nothing implies his training is any faster than usual training - in fact the opposite impression is given.

Also you dont have to be exceptional to become an exarch, you just need to become trapped on the path.

Their war mask does allow them to train harder - they can sublimate their normal wants and desires and focus intently, while retaining sanity in the face of war and the extremes of emoition it elicits.

The second books was good as well, loving the little short stories from the GD 2012 book as well (surrounding the Jade chaos item) so looking forward to Outcast

From what Ive seen this entire year, most rumors are only rumors. The Grey Knights luckily were real. I think the Dark Eldar ones were succesful(was that this year?) SOB is still possible around 2012, hopefully after 6th, but Necrons rumors went from excitement for possibly winning without castling Monoliths to their disappearnce back to the Warp. Its now October and not one word about Necrons coming out, when scheduled for August/September. Many armies need codex updates, and models are still missing from many armies, but GW just tries to do popularity instead of re-releasing every codex. Eventually they might just come out with another new codex for another new race instead fix the black holes in game.

Solitarie as an HQ choice shhhhhhhhhhhh..................

That mite be cool to have solitaries as a HQ choice and with that make harlequins a troop choice. if you take farseer as a HQ and have Warlocks with every guardian squad would give the Guardians WS of 4(A Ulthwe army list). that would be very cool. I just hope its a good and fun codex like the space wolves codex is.

There don't seem to be any additional rumors or really any news to discuss at this time, so...