The following items are common mistakes, omissions, or useful pieces of information for 40k armies. Thank you to everyone that contributed I am trying to focus on prohibitions and generally negative attributes. The items are taken from FAQs, codices, and the rule book. However, be sure to consult with tournament organizers to see if tournament rules will replace GW FAQs and rules (e.g. the NOVA Open in the U.S. ruled that vendetta wings and tails could hang off the table and the INAT erroneously identifies the Lash of Submission as a psychic shooting attack). Be aware that some of the rules listed below can be affected by unit upgrades (e.g., battlewagons can pay for an upgrade to remove the open-topped rule). I would be grateful for help fact-checking the list.

General Rules
1. You may not go back and move units that have already moved once you have started moving another unit.
2. Squadron rules change immobilized to wrecked, stunned to shaken
3. Passengers cannot fire from an opened topped vehicle if it moves over 6".
4. Falling back units cannot rally if an enemy unit is within 6"
5. Successful invulnerable saves against perils of the warp must be rerolled.
6. A fast vehicle cannot move flat out on the same turn that a unit embarks or disembarks from it; skimmers that moved flat out and suffer an immobilized result are wrecked.
7. A unit may not assault from a vehicle that pivoted before they disembarked.
8. Vehicles cannot move side to side, they only use forward, reverse, and pivot .
9. A vehicle may not fire any weapons after a ram attack. A skimmer cannot dodge a ram attack from another skimmer
10. A vehicle with PotMS cannot fire a weapon on the turn it uses smoke launchers.

Grey Knights:
1. Can either cast hammerhand or activate force weapons--not both unless one comes from IC or upgrade character
2. Crowe is not an IC; his heroic sacrifice requires psychic test (so no hammerhand/cleansing flame in the same phase) and can be hooded.
3. Perils of warps kills the justicar first, then a random marine if the justicar is dead.
4. GK terminators are LD9; strike squads are LD8 without justicar!
5. Dreadknights with doomfists are S6.
6. Psykout grenades require the GK unit to initiate the assault.
7. GK Librarian psychic powers have very specific rules about when they can be activated--review them!
8. Storm Ravens cannot move flat out either before or after they embark/disembark a unit.
9. Coteaz is T3 (like all inquisitors) and does not have an invulnerable save.
10. Warding staves are 2+ invulnerable only in CC; normal terminators/pladains are 5++/4++ only in close combat.

ORKS
1. An Ork boy is S3, I2
2. Mobs require at least 11 boys to be fearless; grots do not have "mob rule" and so are rarely fearless.
3. Waaagh must be called at the start of your shooting phase ( unless running Ghaz calls whenever)
4. Kans and Deff dreads don't get fleet from Waaagh; kans (grots) are WS2
5. Snikrot has no rending or power weapons attacks but is S6 A6 on the assault; not an IC
6. At least half of kan squadron must be within 6" of KFF for 4+ squadron save.
7. Lootas are LD7 (like all orks) or LD[mob size up to 10] and deffguns are heavyd3
8. warbikes have perpetual 4+ coversave; nob bikers are T4(5); deffkoptas do not have this coversave and are T4(5).
9. Warbosses are LD9, T5
10. Battlewagons, trukks, warbuggies, looted wagons are open-topped standard

Dark Eldar
1. The only SC with combat drugs is the Duke.
2. Haemonculi, Wracks, Grotesques and Talos don't have fleet.
3. Night shields don't affect template or barrage weapons, but do affect ordinance.
4. Troops cannot embark/disembark from transports moving flat out, or disembark from transports that used Enhanced Aethersails that turn.
5. Venoms can only transport 5 models.
6. Units can fire out of any point on an open-topped transport, but can only fire if it moved 6" or less.
7. Flicker Field saves cannot be taken for failed dangerous terrain tests but check with TO because this rule needs a FAQ.
8. Only models with the Power from Pain special rule can use pain tokens, a unit may consist of several models with and without this rule.
9. Beasts are LD8 and do not have grenade equivalents for assaulting into cover.
10. The Baron is LD9.

Chaos Space Marines
1. All oblits in a squad have to use the same weapon in any given turn; oblits are demons (GK FAQ)
2. Chaos dozer blades only work if they go 6" or less
3. Chaos has no equivalent POTMS
4. Chaos has no ATSKNF
5. Only obliterators and terminators benefit from the no scatter within 6" of an icon rule [i.e. Raptors, Units with Wings do not benefit]
6. Chaos Terminators are not Fearless.
7. Lash does not roll to hit.
8. Plague marines are T4(5)
9. Defilers are BS3 and cannot shoot anything else if they use their battlecannon.
10.Warptime and Gift of Chaos are used at the start of the turn (or turns in the case of Warptime), before movement.

ELDAR
1. A fast vehicle cannot move flat out on the same turn that a unit embarks or disembarks from it.
2. A Farseer on a jetbike cannot cast psychic powers on the same turn that it turboboosts.
3. You cannot deploy a Farseer and his Jetlocks in Dawn of War as they count as 2 HQ choices. They have to move on at the start of Turn 1 and because Fortune must be cast at the start of the turn the Seer can't cast it on Turn 1.
4. Eldrad can only cast 3 pyschic powers if he is not locked in combat
5. A Seer with Runes of Witnessing always casts he powers with 3 dice, and double 1's is Perils (he stills gets his Ghosthelm +3 etc.)
6. Pathfinders are BS4.
7. Falcons do not have Forcefields so you get double melta, ordnance etc.
8. Warlocks are Ld8. and I4.
9. Dire Avenger bladestorm does not allow the unit to fire the next shooting phase
10. Phoenix lords only affect units of aspect warriors

IMPERIAL GUARD
1. Orders must be done first before any other shooting, and must be done from most to least senior.
2. Five weapons can shoot out of a chimera hatch
3. Leman Russ executioners can shoot up to five plasma cannon shots a turn
4. Manticores have only 4 shots. Remember to use the salvo rules for barrage scatter.
5. Marbo does not scatter when he appears, and has a demo charge.
6. Valks/Vendettas wings & tail are part of the hull and must be on the table. Lascannons are hull mounted (i.e. 45 degree arc)
7. Units can disembark anywhere within 2" of the base of a valkyrie/vendetta.
8. Commissars make any unit they're attached to LD9 and Stubborn, and are not independent
9. Collosus cannot move and fire, manticores can move up to 6'' and fire but only directly.
10. A Vend/Valk measures distance to an objective from its base (i.e., a vend parked next to an objective on the third floor is not contesting it)

TAU
1. A Pathfinder devifish cannot Outflank without them.
2. Markerlights can only increase BS to 5. Cover save reductions can only applicable to the single selected firing unit. Declare function before shooting.
3. Drones connected to a unit of Firewarriors do count toward squad size
4. Attached Drones effectively follow the rules for defensive weapons on a Tank (despite S5), but use their own BS of 2.
5. Broadsides cannot drop a large blast like a Hammerhead
6. Models using Target Locks have to declare seperate targets before their unit rolls to hit.
7. If a tank is destroyed, any attached drones may not disembark and are destroyed, but do not give an additional Killpoint.
8. Attached drones may disembark during the player movement phase at any point within 2" of the vehicle hull. These units do give kill points.
9. Ethereals only gives the bonus/malus for Leadership Tests to Tau units if they are within LOS to the Ethereal
10. A commander with only gundrones still counts as an IC. In combat the IC + Drones are counted as a single separate unit.

SPACE WOLVES
1. Njal is fethed if SWs go second.
2. Long Fangs have to declare split fire targets before they roll to hit; fangs have 1 base attack.
3. Thunderwolf calvary are LD8
4. Thunderwolf lords have 3 wounds
5. Jaws, living lightning, and murderous hurricane have to roll to hit.
6. Runepriests have 2 wounds and no invulnerable save standard.
7. Depending on the mission Bjorn yields extra kills points or becomes an extra objective when destroyed.
8. Wolf Scouts enter the board on the left table edge on a roll of ‘1’, and the right table edge on a roll of a ‘2’. Only on a roll of 3-6 does the SW player get to choose.
9. If there is more than one RP in the army, they have to be given different powers and different weapon load-outs. The most common weapon load-out being swapping the standard bolt pistol for a boltgun. This way that RP loses an attack in CC for not having two CC weapons.
10.

TYRANIDS
1. Synapse range is 12"
2. Genestealers do not have grenade equivalent for assaulting into cover.
3. Shadow in the Warp has a 12" range and does not affect psykers in vehicles (lolwut!?)
4. The Lictor reserves/teleport homer 'bonuses' rely on it arriving on turn 2, and anything else that wants to use it arriving inTurn 3 or later.
5. No unit has eternal warrior (not even the swarmlord lolwut?) and very few have invulnerable saves.
6. Hive Guard do not need line of sight to shoot, and to get cover you have to be in terrain.
7. The so-called Doom of Malantai is T4 and does not have eternal warrior. Some players consider his point cost to be reasonable.
8.
9.
10.

BLOOD ANGELS
1. Sang priests are ICs
2. Vanguard Veterans have to declare before coming in whether or not they'll intervene.
3. Mephiston is not an IC and he has no invulnerable save.
4. The potential charge range of a Death Company dread in a Storm Raven is 28.5"
5.
6.
7.
8.
9.
10.

CHAOS DEMONS
1. You can not pre-measure the distance to place a unit within 6" of an Icon, you have to guess.
2. Fateweaver is LD 9! All other daemons are LD 10.
3. All daemons (except Soul Grinders) have the Eternal Warrior and Fearless rules.
4. The daemon player does not have to tell you how he splits his army for wave 1&2 until the beginning of his first turn.
5. The changling can only affect 1 unit per turn. He can also force a Psyker them to make a psychic shooting attack.
6. The Masque is a single model unit, not an IC. Has W2 T3 and 3++. Pavane has 18" range, 1d6 movement, and can affect walkers.
7. Movement:Chrushers = infantry. Fiends, Seekers, Hounds, and Mounted Slanesh heralds = beasts. Chariot Tzeentch Heralds and Screamers = Jet Bikes
8. Plague Bearers are natural T5, so may take FNP saves from krak rockets etc.
9. A unit suffers a deepstrike mishap if; within 1" of an enemy, on top of friendly model/impassible terrain, or off the table edge.
10. A model that deepstrikes into difficult terrain must take a dangerous terrain test. Only invulnerable saves apply (no FNP).

Necrons

1. Destroyers and Heavy Destroyers have only a single wound, and a 3+ save.
2. You only ever get 1d armor penetration against a monolith; its very explicit in the codex.
3. Phase out is checked after WBB rolls are made.
4. The Tomb spider is a MC, but has only two wounds and no invul, and is not fleet.
5. Necrons do NOT get a WBB from a sweeping advance
6. A model only gets to make a WBB roll if; 1) There is a live model within 6", or 2) there is another model on the table of the same type, AND a tomb spyder within 12"
7. WBB is not FNP; weapon AP is not a consideration, only weapons that ignore armor saves in CC or attacks that cause instant death will prevent WBB.
8. Necrons can teleport out of CC with veil using deep strike, and by using the monolith (The squad must be partially within 24 inches of the monolith. aka 5 out of a squad of 10 must be within 24 of the monolith). A unit teleported through a monolith portal may re-roll failed WBB rolls, only if the models were eligible in the first place.
9. A monolith can't move if it is stunned, and can't shoot it's Gauss flux arc if it's shaken or stunned. A monolith can't shoot it's Gauss flux arc and particle whip at the same time, nor can a monolith use it's portal and it's particle whip in the same turn.
10. Nightbringer essentially has a lascannon; C'tan have a 4++ invul, are not fleet, do not have eternal warrior and are 300 and 360 points respectively.


Black Templar
1. Yes the Emperor's Champion with "Accept any Challenge" gives the army preffered enemy, but they also MUST assault if they can. This can be avoided by shooting with rapid fire/heavy weapons.
2. All Black Templar units are FEARLESS in assault.
3. Stormshields are now a 3++, but also cost the appropriate 15 pts.
4. Any vehicle (not Speeders) can be given Power of the Machine Spirit. It is also the Power of the Machine Spirit from the current Space Marine Codex.
5. The Emperor's Champion must get into Base to Base with an enemy ICs if his movement allows. Any friendly models in the way move out of the way.
6. Marshals and so (sanctity, reculsiarch, etc) in the HQ squads are not retinues and may not leave the squad, but are always considered IC's.
7. Crusader squads consist of normal marines (Initiates) and scouts (neophytes) and can take a Land Raider Crusader as a Dedicated Transport. LRC can take blessed hull to ignore the Lance rule.
8. Cyclone Missile Launchers are heavy 2 missile launchers. Typhoon Missile Launchers are also 2 missile launchers (but fires as one weapon).
9. Smoke now gives a 4+ cover save not all pens are glances
10. BT units may roll using the Marshal/Castellans leadership should they choose to only if he is alive. Also they must pay for Frag/Krak grenades. Only HQ squads have sergeants

Dark Angels:

1. Attack bikes are scoring units when taken as add-ons to bikers; the same applies to land speeders as part of a Ravenwing Attack Squad.
2. Deep striking terminators do not scatter when within 6'' of bikes (all come standard with beacon). Model must be placed first and then measurements taken.
3. Up to half of the reserved terminator squads may be brought in by deepstrike in turn 1. This does not have to be declared until turn 1.
4. Ravenwing bikes have a scout move. This means that if given first turn, the bikers can move 24'' (12'' scout + 12'' movement) and still fire. (Ye be warned Landraiders).
5. Ravenwing bikers CANNOT turbo boost as their scout move.
6. All terminators and bikers are fearless.
7. Belial makes terminators a troop choice when he enters the army.
8. When taking an apothecary, cyclone and standard bearer with Belial's terminator squad. There are six different model types in the squad. (Creates a wound distribution advantage)
9. Standard provides extra attack to entire squad (Makes for 25 S8 I1 attacks on the charge from this unit)
10. Belial is WS5 with 3W

Space Marines.

1. Chapter tactics over writes combat tactics.
2. Only a captain can take a command squad
3. drop pods cant fire when they arrive
4. drop pod occupants take dangerous terrain if they enter terrain disembarking
5. Special sternguard ammo does not work with pistols only boltguns
6. Vortex of doom hits the librarian on a failure to cast, not perils
7. servo arms strike at strength 8, no modification; relic blades strike at strength 6, no modification
8. gate of infinity is used at the start of the movement phase, so cannot gate a non troop unit in dawn of war
9. units cannot comabt squad while in reserve (2 transports, etc)
10. locator beacons cannot be premeasured to

Sisters of Battle

1. The only long range anti mech firepower in the codex is the Exorcist, disabling the exorcists is key to winning, do this any way you can.
2. Sisters of Battle have a hard time VS mass 2+ saves, they don't have the high volume of shots, or access to a lot of plasma to kill elites. Flamers suffer when there's only 4-5 targets
3. Sisters of Battle excel at short range shooting (within 12 inches). Use this to your advantage and stay back and kite.
4. Immolators can only move 6 and fire their heavy flamers, same with multi melta.
5. If your opponent is running Celestine, chances are they'll run it at your objective and try and contest your obj by bringing her back. Also, she's a very very mean tarpit, do not assault her unless you have to. She is not eternal warrior and is T3
6. Seraphim hand flamers are only str 3 ap 6, they have a 6+ rerollable invul, and they can reroll their wounds with flamers and bolt pistols.
7. Death Cult/Jacobus does not have fleet, do not assault this squad, shoot it to death. Jacobus cult is most likely the nastiest assault unit in the game atm.
8. Dominion squads can outflank, and infiltrate, prepare for this. Also if a character joins the dominion squad, they do lose their scouts rule. Dominions can carry 5 flamers or 5 melta with TL. Take these out as quick as they come on the board.
9. Faith can only be used on the Sister player's turn.
10. Jacobus lets a Sister player reroll the amount of faith points per turn, he DOES NOT allow the player to reroll their faith checks.

I like how TC Decided the reminders should be 10 yet only listed 4...

Everything but SW and GK
1.Your not as good.

BA:

BA MUST re-roll failed reserved when entering play from deep strike via DoA

Sang Priests are independant characters

Land raiders can deepstrike but can mishap like anything else

VVets HAVE to declaire before coming in if they'll intervene or not.

Tau:
yes that 5pt upgrade does give me a 4+ cover save.

Phototoxin wrote:BA:

BA MUST re-roll failed reserved when entering play from deep strike via DoA

This is incorrect. The codex specifies that "Any unit with this special rule can re-roll failed reserve rolls if arriving by Deep Strike." Not must.

Perhaps it is best to let TOs make such decisions regarding rules, and leave it to the players to ask ahead of time how they would interpret the rules of their army based on Codices, FAQs, and other such things.

Remember, there are things such as opinions, but the tourney organizers and their judges turn opinion into law for their events, no matter what you say.

Tau:

1.You do not get cover saves from markerlights.
2.Markerlights can only increase BS to 5
3.Drones connected to a unit of Firewarriors DO count toward squad size (E.g. if they make the unit more than 12, they're no getting in the Devilfish)
4.If the vehicle has drones on its turrets, and has moved far enough to shoot only one weapon, the drones can still shoot along with one of the fish's weapons.
5.Broadsides cannot drop a large blast like a Hammerhead
6.Kroot have Leadership 7 without their Shaper
7.Farsight does not permit more than one of anything that isn't Firewarriors, Crisis Suits, or Devilfishes
8.Farsight also does not allow use of Ethereals, Vespid, and Kroot at all
9.Ethereals only gives bonuses to Tau units if they are within LOS to the Ethereal
10.A commander with only gundrones still counts as an independant character, as in he can join/separate from units with his drones.

11.Krootoxes count as 2 units when loading into a transport

WarOne wrote:Perhaps it is best to let TOs make such decisions regarding rules, and leave it to the players to ask ahead of time how they would interpret the rules of their army based on Codices, FAQs, and other such things.

Remember, there are things such as opinions, but the tourney organizers and their judges turn opinion into law for their events, no matter what you say.

What nonsense. If TOs want to make rules decisions that disregard FAQs (e.g., NOVA and vendetta bases) that is their discretion. What I'm interested in is creating a useful reference document for players based on the existing rules and FAQs.

IG:
1) Orders must be done first before any other shooting, and must be done from most to least senior.
2) Five weapons can shoot out of a chimera hatch
3) Leman Russ executioners can shoot up to five plasma cannon shots a turn
4) Artillery is open topped, but hydras and Manticores are not
5) Marbo does not scatter when he appears, and has a demo charge.
6) Valks/Vendettas get a 4+ cover save after a scout move >12"
7) Units can disembark anywhere within 2" of the base of a valkyrie
8) Commissars make any unit they're attached to LD9 and Stubborn, and are not independent
9) Hydras have 72" range
10) Guardsmen have frag grenades, making them S4 against vehicles. Veterans have Krak standard.

Orks:

1 - If the Ork player is going first, their Deffkopta can assault you with its buzzsaw turn 1. No, I don't care that you're all the way in the corner.
2 - If a battlewagon RAMS, it can roll your vehicle and tank shocks units on the way.
3 - If a battlewagon TANK SHOCKS, it stops in front of any vehicle. They need to declare a direction and a distance before they measure anything.
4 - Ghazghkull gives orks in cars a ~28" charge range, plan accordingly.
5 - Burnas in a battlewagon will ruin your day, but can only burn you if they move 7" or less.
6 - The KFF gives infantry a 5+ and vehicles a 4+. If it's a squadron, half or more of them need to be in range.
7 - Ork vehicles with boarding planks (and someone inside) can make CC attacks on both players' combat phases, and can strike dreadnoughts. No, he doesn't get to swing back.
8 - Lootas are dangerous, but their leadership is tripe. Shoot them enough to force a leadership test and move on.
9 - Boyz are very very dangerous on the charge, but much more managable without. Find a way to charge THEM and you're well on your way to winning.
10 - If a battlewagon EXPLODES your vehicle, it keeps going. This means that if it explodes a transport and has more movement, it probably tank shocks the guys inside, too. Note that this is not true if it merely WRECKS your vehicle.

An addendum:

warboss_Russ! wrote:Orks:

1 - If the Ork player is going first, their Deffkopta can assault you with its buzzsaw turn 1. No, I don't care that you're all the way in the corner.
2 - If a battlewagon RAMS, it can roll your vehicle, counts as moving cruising speed regardless of actual movement and tank shocks units on the way.
3 - If a battlewagon TANK SHOCKS, it stops in front of any vehicle. They need to declare a direction and a distance before they measure anything.
4 - Ghazghkull gives orks in cars a ~28" charge range, plan accordingly.
5 - Burnas in a battlewagon will ruin your day, but can only burn you if they move 7" or less.
6 - The KFF gives infantry a 5+ and vehicles a 4+. If it's a squadron, half or more of them need to be in range, if it is an infantry troop, only one of them has to be in range- and that means the back of the base is within 6" of the front of the Mek's base.
7 - Ork vehicles with boarding planks (and someone inside) can make CC attacks on both players' combat phases, and can strike dreadnoughts. No, he doesn't get to swing back.
8 - Lootas are dangerous, but their leadership is tripe. Shoot them enough to force a leadership test and move on.
9 - Boyz are very very dangerous on the charge, but much more managable without. Find a way to charge THEM and you're well on your way to winning.
10 - If a battlewagon EXPLODES your vehicle, it keeps going. This means that if it explodes a transport and has more movement, it probably tank shocks the guys inside, too. Note that this is not true if it merely WRECKS your vehicle.

For IG and GKs, I think the two things are important so please make room for them in the top 10 if you agree:

GK:

Coteaz's manipulation of Seize the Initiative.

GKGM Grand Strategy allows scoring dreads, and list what it can actually do (I don't know, but it's important and out-of-the-box)

IG:

Officer of the Fleet gives -1 to enemy reserve rolls and can force reroll on outflank. Astropath gives +1 to controlling player's reserve rolls and can option reroll on outflank.

Dark Eldar

1. While all vehicles are fast, embarked squads can still only fire if they have moved 6" or less. Aerial Acrobatics has no effect.
2. Splinter Cannons on infantry can shoot at assault 4 OR heavy 6 while vehicle MUST use the heavy 6 version.
3. Venoms come with the Flickerfield upgrade standard so just because they didn't declare the upgrade at the begining doesn't mean it isn't there.
4. If a voidraven turboboosts it can still drop its Void Mine. It can also shoot at a different target then the one it dropped its mine on.
5. Haemonculi, Talos, Chronos, Wracks, Grotesques, and Urien DO NOT have fleet.
6. Razorwings and Voidraves are NOT open-topped.
7. Raiders are very pointy thus a crafty DE player can assault 37"-42" (12" deploy, 12" move, 3" pivoting after move, 2" disembark, 1" base size, 6" assault, d6" run) with wyches...plan accordingly.
8. Drugs MUST be rolled for before the game. Duke Sliscus allows two rolls then the DE players choice applies.
9. Only models with Power from Pain get any benefit from pain tokens. So this means that Beasts are unaffected from the token while Beastmasters are not.
10. Models arriving via Duke Sliscus' "Low Orbit Raid" can dissembark from transports to shoot/run. Note that this is different from the vehicle upgrade "Retrofire Jets". This however does not mean that they can assault that turn as they still count as having Deep Striked.

Black Templar
1. Yes the Emperor's Champion with "Accept any Challenge" gives the army preffered enemy, but they also MUST assault if they can. This can be avoided by shooting with rapid fire/heavy weapons.
2. All Black Templar units are FEARLESS in assault.
3. Stormshields are now a 3++, but also cost the appropriate 15 pts.
4. Any vehicle (not Speeders) can be given Power of the Machine Spirit. It is also the Power of the Machine Spirit from the current Space Marine Codex.
5. The Emperor's Champion must get into Base to Base with an enemy ICs if his movement allows. Any friendly models in the way move out of the way.
6. A Marshal/Castellan and a Master of Sanctity/Reclusiarch (Captain and Chaplain) can be joined to a command squad and counts as 1 HQ choice. They are also not ICs as long as the squad is alive.
7. Crusader squads consist of normal marines (Initiates) and scouts (neophytes) and can take a Land Raider Crusader as a Dedicated Transport. LRC can take blessed hull to ignore the Lance rule.
8. Cyclone Missile Launchers are heavy 2 missile launchers. Typhoon Missile Launchers are also 2 missile launchers (but fires as one weapon).
9. Black Templars must test at -1 to their Leadership in order to not shoot at the nearest enemy unit.
10. Smoke now gives a 4+ cover save not all pens are glances
11. I know its an extra but it is kinda important. BT drop pod assault does not allow for first turn arrivals they are reserves as normal.
12. Last one...BT units may roll using the Marshal/Castellans leadership should they choose to only if he is alive. Also they don't have Sergeants or Frag/Krak grenades.

Cool list. If any of you can agree that some of these are
definitive, we could make them articles.

I really only have one, it's for necrons (because for some reason this always comes up):

1. The monolith can't use both the particle whip and the teleport portal in the same turn

Sisters of Battle

1. The only long range anti mech firepower in the codex is the Exorcist, disabling the exorcists is key to winning, do this any way you can.
2. Sisters of Battle have a hard time VS mass 2+ saves, they don't have the high volume of shots, or access to a lot of plasma to kill elites. Flamers suffer when there's only 4-5 targets
3. Sisters of Battle excel at short range shooting (within 12 inches). Use this to your advantage and stay back and kite.
4. Immolators can only move 6 and fire their heavy flamers, same with multi melta.
5. If your opponent is running Celestine, chances are they'll run it at your objective and try and contest your obj by bringing her back. Also, she's a very very mean tarpit, do not assault her unless you have to. She is not eternal warrior and is T3
6. Seraphim hand flamers are only str 3 ap 6, they have a 6+ rerollable invul, and they can reroll their wounds with flamers and bolt pistols.
7. Death Cult/Jacobus does not have fleet, do not assault this squad, shoot it to death. Jacobus cult is most likely the nastiest assault unit in the game atm.
8. Dominion squads can outflank, and infiltrate, prepare for this. Also if a character joins the dominion squad, they do lose their scouts rule. Dominions can carry 5 flamers or 5 melta with TL. Take these out as quick as they come on the board.
9. Standard Battle Sisters are now very very weak in CC. They do not have stubborn now unless attached to a character. It's very easy to make them break and run in CC, then sweeping advance, because they're only int 3.
10. Jacobus lets a Sister player reroll the amount of faith points per turn, he DOES NOT allow the player to reroll their faith checks.
11. Faith can only be used on the Sister player's turn.

Here Goes One Important thing I know:
Tyranids:
1: Although Genestealers do not suffer from instinctive behavior, they still recieve the bonuses if they are within synapse range.

warboss_Russ! wrote:Orks:

1 - If the Ork player is going first, their Deffkopta can assault you with its buzzsaw turn 1. No, I don't care that you're all the way in the corner.
2 - If a battlewagon RAMS, it can roll your vehicle, counts as moving cruising speed regardless of actual movement and tank shocks units on the way.
3 - If a battlewagon TANK SHOCKS, it stops in front of any vehicle. They need to declare a direction and a distance before they measure anything.
4 - Ghazghkull gives orks in cars a ~28" charge range, plan accordingly.
5 - Burnas in a battlewagon will ruin your day, but can only burn you if they move 7" or less.
6 - The KFF gives infantry a 5+ and vehicles a 4+. If it's a squadron, half or more of them need to be in range.
7 - Ork vehicles with boarding planks (and someone inside) can make CC attacks on both players' combat phases, and can strike dreadnoughts. No, he doesn't get to swing back.
8 - Lootas are dangerous, but their leadership is tripe. Shoot them enough to force a leadership test and move on.
9 - Boyz are very very dangerous on the charge, but much more managable without. Find a way to charge THEM and you're well on your way to winning.
10 - If a battlewagon EXPLODES your vehicle, it keeps going. This means that if it explodes a transport and has more movement, it probably tank shocks the guys inside, too. Note that this is not true if it merely WRECKS your vehicle.

Only thing I want to add here is that any unit with Ghazghkull must always roll for difficult terrain including assaults (I've seen this missed quite a few times)

Since no one has done it yet.

Necrons

1. Shoot the destroyers first at range, they're only T5 with a 3+ save, considering the amount of damage they do, this should be priority. Destroyers count as jet bikes for ALL purposes.
2. Ignore the Monolith unless you've got str 10, chances are you're going to spend all game bouncing shots off it you could have used to put down destroyers.
3. Necrons are horrible at taking objectives because most take very low troops (never usually more than 3) cripple their troops after killing the destroyers in objective games. Phase out count is usually anywhere from 7-12 models
4. If there is a tomb spider or two kill them first with your heavies. It's only a T6 MC with no invul and 2 wounds. With the tomb spider dead, now if you knock down a whole squad, it stays down (unless within 6 inches of a squad of the same type) Tomb spider's range also, is only 12 inches.
5. Get in CC with Necrons, even if you're a horrible CC army like IG, at long as you have at least 1 power weapon, chances are you'll win combat and sweeping advance the Necrons with their INT 2. Necrons get no WBB from sweeping advance.
6. If there are heavy destroyers, kill them after tomb spiders, they are the only unit to be able to pen armor at long range.
7. Getting vehicles close to Warriors, even in 5th is somewhat devastating sometimes. Enough glances can do some major damage, doesn't matter if it's armor 10, or 14.
8. Necrons can teleport out of CC with veil using deep strike, and by using the monolith (The squad must be partially within 24 inches of the monolith. aka 5 out of a squad of 10 must be within 24 of the monolith). Also using the monolith they can reroll their WBB saves to give them something like an 80% chance for the squad to fully get back up. This is why killing tomb spiders is vital.
9. A monolith can't move if it is stunned, and can't shoot it's Gauss flux arc if it's shaken or stunned. A monolith can't shoot it's Gauss flux arc and particle whip at the same time, nor can a monolith use it's portal and it's particle whip in the same turn.
10. Both of the Ctan die very easily to anything str 7 or above, auto cannons even force a 4+ invul. However, if a Ctan is not near you, don't shoot it, ignore it. They are very slow and take a long time to get anywhere, even when running.

Space Wolves
1. Everything has counterattack
2. Half of Njal's abilities don't work if going second
3. Njal is pronounced Nigel (cause its funnier that way)
4. TWC are base toughness 5, meaning they don't take a lot of wounds.
5. Everything has counterattack (in case you forgot)
6. Every space wolf army will contain 3 squads of long fangs. Its mandatory just like fire warriors for tau.
7. Wolf Guard terminators cannot join scouts
8. Wolf Guard are not ICs
9. Wolf Standards activate for the NEXT assault phase
10. Everything has counterattack

@Timmah

You've been on here a long time. I don't believe you missed the most important thing when playing Space wolves! Everything has counter attack

Great idea for a thread.

Very useful.

CSM:
1) Lash of Submission is not a psychic shooting attack.
2) Obliterators are Slow and Purposeful, which also means they can move or deep strike and fire a heavy weapon in the same turn.
3) Obliterators do not have Terminator Armour, they simply have a 2+ save as standard and can therefore Sweeping Advance.
4) Plague Marines are T4(5) not T5.
5) Warptime and Gift of Chaos are used at the start of the turn (or turns in the case of Warptime), before movement.
6) Chaos Land Raiders do not have PotMS.
7) Defilers have the Fleet USR.
8) Chaos Terminators are not Fearless.
9) The Chaos Terminator Champion upgrade can be taken on as many terminators as are in the squad, it is not a unqiue squad leader upgrade like Aspiring Champions are.
10) Chaos Space Marines have Bolters, Bolt Pistols, and CCWs as standard.

warboss_Russ! wrote:Orks:
2 - If a battlewagon RAMS, it can roll your vehicle, counts as moving cruising speed regardless of actual movement and tank shocks units on the way.

I had a huge debate on the YMTC forum about the speed of any Ramming Vehicle. Pg 68, par 6, line 2, TANKS: Tank Shock!: "The vehicle must move at least combat speed". My argument was that they should be considered as having moved at top speed no matter how far they moved, but I cannot come up with an argument to convince the rules lawyers who think that distance traveled is the absolute measurement of speed. If you have an idea that I haven't tried, please let me know.

Reguarding TankShock or Ramming. If the Vehicle doing the attack moves less than Flatout, you may still fire weapons as normal after the tankshock/ram.

Eldar List
#1 Psychic powers are done before any movement, except of course the ones in the shooting phase.
#2 If you get a peril of the warp, you must reroll the successful ghosthelm save unless you fortuned yourself first.
#3 If a peril makes it past the ghost helm, you get your invuln save.
#4 If you have an Embolden Warlock with your Farseer, don't forget to reroll all failed psychic tests and avoid #2 and #3
#5 Begin every List with Eldrad
#6 Harlequins do not roll for moving or assaulting through cover, ever.
#7 Fortune your Avatar
#8 Eldrad is no slouch in CC
#9 Yes Swooping Hawks can bounce off the table right after tossing a pie plate template, if they have Skyleap.
#10 Take cheapest load out for tanks, on average they will be shaken every turn, if you took the stones and holofields.

#11 Note to self, Guiding a vehicle with twin linked weapons is a real waste of a pyschic power.

Polonius wrote:IG:
1) Orders must be done first before any other shooting, and must be done from most to least senior.
2) Five weapons can shoot out of a chimera hatch
3) Leman Russ executioners can shoot up to five plasma cannon shots a turn
4) Artillery is open topped, but hydras and Manticores are not
5) Marbo does not scatter when he appears, and has a demo charge.
6) Valks/Vendettas get a 4+ cover save after a scout move >12"
Surely that's if they move over 18" (fast, skimmer rules)
7) Units can disembark anywhere within 2" of the base of a valkyrie
8) Commissars make any unit they're attached to LD9 and Stubborn, and are not independent
9) Hydras have 72" range
10) Guardsmen have frag grenades, making them S4 against vehicles. Veterans have Krak standard.

CaptainJay. No, they just need to move over 12". It's bike that need to cover 18" I believe.

Shadowseer_Kim wrote:Reguarding TankShock or Ramming. If the Vehicle doing the attack moves less than Flatout, you may still fire weapons as normal after the tankshock/ram.

Eldar List
#1 Psychic powers are done before any movement, except of course the ones in the shooting phase.
#2 If you get a peril of the warp, you must reroll the successful ghosthelm save unless you fortuned yourself first.
#3 If a peril makes it past the ghost helm, you get your invuln save.
#4 If you have an Embolden Warlock with your Farseer, don't forget to reroll all failed psychic tests and avoid #2 and #3
#5 Begin every List with Eldrad
#6 Harlequins do not roll for moving or assaulting through cover, ever.
#7 Fortune your Avatar
#8 Eldrad is no slouch in CC
#9 Yes Swooping Hawks can bounce off the table right after tossing a pie plate template, if they have Skyleap.
#10 Take cheapest load out for tanks, on average they will be shaken every turn, if you took the stones and holofields.

#11 Note to self, Guiding a vehicle with twin linked weapons is a real waste of a pyschic power.

No, you can do psychic powers just before shooting phase unless they are shooting attacks and if you pass ghosthelm you don't have to roll it again. That would be a pointless Idea of adding it in. In the codex it says, "If a Farseer suffers a Perils of the warp attack his ghosthelm will prevent it on a D6 roll of 3+." Nuff said, nothing like that in the Eratta or FAQ.

By the way:
#12: Mind War allows the receiving model a cover save.

EldarN00b wrote:

Shadowseer_Kim wrote:Reguarding TankShock or Ramming. If the Vehicle doing the attack moves less than Flatout, you may still fire weapons as normal after the tankshock/ram.

Eldar List
#1 Psychic powers are done before any movement, except of course the ones in the shooting phase.
#2 If you get a peril of the warp, you must reroll the successful ghosthelm save unless you fortuned yourself first.
#3 If a peril makes it past the ghost helm, you get your invuln save.
#4 If you have an Embolden Warlock with your Farseer, don't forget to reroll all failed psychic tests and avoid #2 and #3
#5 Begin every List with Eldrad
#6 Harlequins do not roll for moving or assaulting through cover, ever.
#7 Fortune your Avatar
#8 Eldrad is no slouch in CC
#9 Yes Swooping Hawks can bounce off the table right after tossing a pie plate template, if they have Skyleap.
#10 Take cheapest load out for tanks, on average they will be shaken every turn, if you took the stones and holofields.

#11 Note to self, Guiding a vehicle with twin linked weapons is a real waste of a pyschic power.

No, you can do psychic powers just before shooting phase unless they are shooting attacks

Psychic powers page of the Eldar codex: "Unless otherwise noted, these powers work as described in the Psychic Powers section of the Warhammer 40,000 rulebook, and are used at the start of the Eldar turn..."

Emphasis mine. The start of the Eldar turn means the start of the Eldar turn, not the start of the Eldar turn but before shooting.

Ghenghis Jon wrote:

warboss_Russ! wrote:Orks:
2 - If a battlewagon RAMS, it can roll your vehicle, counts as moving cruising speed regardless of actual movement and tank shocks units on the way.

I had a huge debate on the YMTC forum about the speed of any Ramming Vehicle. Pg 68, par 6, line 2, TANKS: Tank Shock!: "The vehicle must move at least combat speed". My argument was that they should be considered as having moved at top speed no matter how far they moved, but I cannot come up with an argument to convince the rules lawyers who think that distance traveled is the absolute measurement of speed. If you have an idea that I haven't tried, please let me know.

Simply because if you only move 3" that sure as heck isn't 12"

Shadowseer_Kim wrote:Reguarding TankShock or Ramming. If the Vehicle doing the attack moves less than Flatout, you may still fire weapons as normal after the tankshock/ram.

Eldar List
#1 Psychic powers are done before any movement, except of course the ones in the shooting phase.
#2 If you get a peril of the warp, you must reroll the successful ghosthelm save unless you fortuned yourself first.
#3 If a peril makes it past the ghost helm, you get your invuln save.
#4 If you have an Embolden Warlock with your Farseer, don't forget to reroll all failed psychic tests and avoid #2 and #3
#5 Begin every List with Eldrad
#6 Harlequins do not roll for moving or assaulting through cover, ever.
#7 Fortune your Avatar
#8 Eldrad is no slouch in CC
#9 Yes Swooping Hawks can bounce off the table right after tossing a pie plate template, if they have Skyleap.
#10 Take cheapest load out for tanks, on average they will be shaken every turn, if you took the stones and holofields.

#11 Note to self, Guiding a vehicle with twin linked weapons is a real waste of a pyschic power.

#2 is wrong as stated, it's ignored on a 3+ it's not a save so does not need rerolled
#5 agree to disagree; I won't take him @ 1500 I'll run dual autarch
#8 agree to disagree; he kinda is, even with good ws and a PW that wounds on 2's. Been instagibbed so many times.
#10 Wave Serpents will cry if you don't give them spirit stones; as for Falcons/Fire Prisms I've just been giving the HoloFields to much success

jdjamesdean@mail.com wrote:

Ghenghis Jon wrote:

warboss_Russ! wrote:Orks:
2 - If a battlewagon RAMS, it can roll your vehicle, counts as moving cruising speed regardless of actual movement and tank shocks units on the way.

I had a huge debate on the YMTC forum about the speed of any Ramming Vehicle. Pg 68, par 6, line 2, TANKS: Tank Shock!: "The vehicle must move at least combat speed". My argument was that they should be considered as having moved at top speed no matter how far they moved, but I cannot come up with an argument to convince the rules lawyers who think that distance traveled is the absolute measurement of speed. If you have an idea that I haven't tried, please let me know.

Simply because if you only move 3" that sure as heck isn't 12"

Actually... If your tank shocking troops and declare movement 6" or less you may shoot 1weapon/troops/defensive weapons but if you ram a vehicle it states under the heading Ramming that you must drive top speed and may not shot in that turns shooting phase.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Shadowseer_Kim wrote:Reguarding TankShock or Ramming. If the Vehicle doing the attack moves less than Flatout, you may still fire weapons as normal after the tankshock/ram.

Eldar List
#1 Psychic powers are done before any movement, except of course the ones in the shooting phase.
#2 If you get a peril of the warp, you must reroll the successful ghosthelm save unless you fortuned yourself first.
#3 If a peril makes it past the ghost helm, you get your invuln save.
#4 If you have an Embolden Warlock with your Farseer, don't forget to reroll all failed psychic tests and avoid #2 and #3
#5 Begin every List with Eldrad
#6 Harlequins do not roll for moving or assaulting through cover, ever.
#7 Fortune your Avatar
#8 Eldrad is no slouch in CC
#9 Yes Swooping Hawks can bounce off the table right after tossing a pie plate template, if they have Skyleap.
#10 Take cheapest load out for tanks, on average they will be shaken every turn, if you took the stones and holofields.

#11 Note to self, Guiding a vehicle with twin linked weapons is a real waste of a pyschic power.

A side note to #6 is that they still must take dangerous terrain tests.

Avatar 720 wrote:CSM:
1) Lash of Submission is not a psychic shooting attack.
2) Obliterators are Slow and Purposeful, which also means they can move or deep strike and fire a heavy weapon in the same turn.
3) Obliterators do not have Terminator Armour, they simply have a 2+ save as standard and can therefore Sweeping Advance.
4) Plague Marines are T4(5) not T5.
5) Warptime and Gift of Chaos are used at the start of the turn (or turns in the case of Warptime), before movement.
6) Chaos Land Raiders do not have PotMS.
7) Defilers have the Fleet USR.
8) Chaos Terminators are not Fearless.
9) The Chaos Terminator Champion upgrade can be taken on as many terminators as are in the squad, it is not a unqiue squad leader upgrade like Aspiring Champions are.
10) Chaos Space Marines have Bolters, Bolt Pistols, and CCWs as standard.

1) Inat FAQ says it is (to clarify it says that you need to roll to hit with it), personally I agree with you though...

11) Berserkers have furious charge, but that only lasts for 1 round.
12) Defilers are BS3 and cannot shoot anything else if they use their battlecannon.

The ork list should at least mention Snikrot in some way, both in how he can and will be in your backfield auto-hitting tanks and how he can sneak ICs there too.

Too many people think Snik and Mad Dok simply have outflank and rage and then get mad when they have something similar but different which then results in half their army being killed.

INAT doesnt mean anything.

With regard to the FAQ. Its the 40k main rule book faq, and it says its a shooting psychic attack if it has a profile like a shooting attack. (i.e. has a range, strength and AP
value). Pretty much if, its has all those components its a shooting attack. And therefore if its a shooting attack then it must roll to hit. I'm not seeing that other than having range and done in the shooting phase and in place of other shooting attacks that it qualifies as a psychic shooting attack. So its not, it just happens to share some qualities. On the other hand Bolt of Change is defiantly a psychic shooting attack. It has range, strength and AP.

Anyhow its been a while since I have looked at my chaos codex, and it probably says something eye opening and equally saddening :p So don't quote me just yet :p

CageUF wrote:

Avatar 720 wrote:CSM:
1) Lash of Submission is not a psychic shooting attack.
2) Obliterators are Slow and Purposeful, which also means they can move or deep strike and fire a heavy weapon in the same turn.
3) Obliterators do not have Terminator Armour, they simply have a 2+ save as standard and can therefore Sweeping Advance.
4) Plague Marines are T4(5) not T5.
5) Warptime and Gift of Chaos are used at the start of the turn (or turns in the case of Warptime), before movement.
6) Chaos Land Raiders do not have PotMS.
7) Defilers have the Fleet USR.
8) Chaos Terminators are not Fearless.
9) The Chaos Terminator Champion upgrade can be taken on as many terminators as are in the squad, it is not a unqiue squad leader upgrade like Aspiring Champions are.
10) Chaos Space Marines have Bolters, Bolt Pistols, and CCWs as standard.

1) Inat FAQ says it is (to clarify it says that you need to roll to hit with it), personally I agree with you though...

11) Berserkers have furious charge, but that only lasts for 1 round.
12) Defilers are BS3 and cannot shoot anything else if they use their battlecannon.

CageUF wrote:

Avatar 720 wrote:CSM:
1) Lash of Submission is not a psychic shooting attack.
2) Obliterators are Slow and Purposeful, which also means they can move or deep strike and fire a heavy weapon in the same turn.
3) Obliterators do not have Terminator Armour, they simply have a 2+ save as standard and can therefore Sweeping Advance.
4) Plague Marines are T4(5) not T5.
5) Warptime and Gift of Chaos are used at the start of the turn (or turns in the case of Warptime), before movement.
6) Chaos Land Raiders do not have PotMS.
7) Defilers have the Fleet USR.
8) Chaos Terminators are not Fearless.
9) The Chaos Terminator Champion upgrade can be taken on as many terminators as are in the squad, it is not a unqiue squad leader upgrade like Aspiring Champions are.
10) Chaos Space Marines have Bolters, Bolt Pistols, and CCWs as standard.

1) Inat FAQ says it is (to clarify it says that you need to roll to hit with it), personally I agree with you though...

Official GW FAQ>Inat FAQ, and the GW FAQ gives more specific details as to what makes a psychic power a psychic shooting attack:

Q: What psychic powers count as psychic shooting
attacks? (p50)
A: Any psychic power with a profile like that of a
ranged weapon (i.e. has a range, strength and AP
value) and any psychic power that specifically states
that it is a psychic shooting attack.

Lash of Submission has neither the profile of a ranged attack, nor a clause that specifically states it, unlike Bolt of Change and Doombolt, both of which have ranged profiles. By extentsion, it also means that neither Wind of Chaos nor Nurgle's Rot are shooting attacks either, since they also lack ranged profiles and a specific clause; the 'instead of firing another ranged weapon' clause is not specific, as it does not state that it is a psychic shooting attack, at the most it's only a hint.

Tyranids-
1) If they sit in cover, tactical marines will win combat against every infantry unit in the army because we are an assault army without grenades.
2) Units have to arrive on the correct turn for the reserve tunnels to work for both the Mawlock and the Trygon.
3) The Tyrant can use cover like infantry when it is with Tyrant Guard.
4) Lash Whips will still allow furious chargers and GKs with Halberds to swing at Ini 2 and 3.
5) There is almost no way to bennefit from the Lictor reserves bonus.
6) The reserves bonus from the Tyrant is mandatory when purchases.
7) Synapse is not a psychic power and creatures with that rule are not all psychers.
8) Hormagaunts are no longer beasts and can assault units on the second floor of a ruin.
9) Hive Guard do not negate cover generated from war gear sources.
10) Robbin Cruddice really hates wound allocation and monsterous creatures.

Avatar 720 wrote:CSM:
1) Lash of Submission is not a psychic shooting attack.
2) Obliterators are Slow and Purposeful, which also means they can move or deep strike and fire a heavy weapon in the same turn.
3) Obliterators do not have Terminator Armour, they simply have a 2+ save as standard and can therefore Sweeping Advance.
4) Plague Marines are T4(5) not T5.
5) Warptime and Gift of Chaos are used at the start of the turn (or turns in the case of Warptime), before movement.
6) Chaos Land Raiders do not have PotMS.
7) Defilers have the Fleet USR.
8) Chaos Terminators are not Fearless.
9) The Chaos Terminator Champion upgrade can be taken on as many terminators as are in the squad, it is not a unqiue squad leader upgrade like Aspiring Champions are.
10) Chaos Space Marines have Bolters, Bolt Pistols, and CCWs as standard.

GAH FETH YOU BEAT ME TO THIS!

i had all this in my head lastnight and was going to post... ahah kudos!

Chaos - Lash is NOT a PSA, INAT are simply 100% wrong on this matter. It used to be a PSA, then GW up and changed the definition of a PSA. Lash is not, now, a PSA. No ifs, buts or maybes.

Ramming - if you move 0 - 6" you have moved combat speed. Thats it. No "rules lawyer" pejoratives required, the rules are rigth there in plain sight: your actual movement is what counts. So if you ram less than 6" you CAN let passengers shoot out, RAW.

As always, keep in mind that the more assertively a rules argument is made, the more likey it is that different groups will play it different ways.

I'd suggest that rather than try to point out rules interpretations as fact, point out that rules controversies exist and that players should check with a TO before a game.

I'd rather know to ask the TO how he rules Lash, than "know" that it isn't a PSA.

ASking is certainly a good thing - however the rules on this have no other interpretaton possible, thanks to the FAQ. You have to consciously change the rules frmo wha tthe FAQ tells you, or not be aware of the FAQ, to assert differently.

Lash isnt a PSA.

Grimgob wrote:

jdjamesdean@mail.com wrote:

Ghenghis Jon wrote:

warboss_Russ! wrote:Orks:
2 - If a battlewagon RAMS, it can roll your vehicle, counts as moving cruising speed regardless of actual movement and tank shocks units on the way.

I had a huge debate on the YMTC forum about the speed of any Ramming Vehicle. Pg 68, par 6, line 2, TANKS: Tank Shock!: "The vehicle must move at least combat speed". My argument was that they should be considered as having moved at top speed no matter how far they moved, but I cannot come up with an argument to convince the rules lawyers who think that distance traveled is the absolute measurement of speed. If you have an idea that I haven't tried, please let me know.

Simply because if you only move 3" that sure as heck isn't 12"

Actually... If your tank shocking troops and declare movement 6" or less you may shoot 1weapon/troops/defensive weapons but if you ram a vehicle it states under the heading Ramming that you must drive top speed and may not shot in that turns shooting phase.

actually, its "move at the highest speed its capable of"69 BGB
If it can only move 3" than 3" it is. There is also the restriction stating the vehicle may not shoot. However embarked passengers may fire if it moved 6"<

nosferatu1001 wrote:ASking is certainly a good thing - however the rules on this have no other interpretaton possible, thanks to the FAQ. You have to consciously change the rules frmo wha tthe FAQ tells you, or not be aware of the FAQ, to assert differently.

Lash isnt a PSA.

Unless you're at an event that uses the INAT.

In which case no matter how "correct" you may be, you're still wrong.

Which is why being aware of the question is more important than being confident in your answer.

The INAT ruling was an intentional nerf.

olympia wrote:The INAT ruling was an intentional nerf.

The INAT is like any commitee created document: sometimes wierd things appear.

I'd still suggest the following thing to know about the chaos book:
* Lash of Submission is generally not a psychic shooting attack, and does not need to roll to hit. Events using INAT do consider it a psychic shooting attack, so be aware.

Polonus - making INAT an intentional change to the rules. They also publish an FAQ document meaning you can find out the rules changes beforehand, making this a moot point.

Lash isnt a PSA, unless you change the rules so it is. Same as Ramming is a type of Tank Shock, unless you change the rules so it isnt.

nosferatu1001 wrote:Polonus - making INAT an intentional change to the rules. They also publish an FAQ document meaning you can find out the rules changes beforehand, making this a moot point.

Lash isnt a PSA, unless you change the rules so it is. Same as Ramming is a type of Tank Shock, unless you change the rules so it isnt.

Are you saying it's a bad idea to ask the TO about how he runs it?

If you are, than we're in disagreement. And you are wrong, because you dont' understand the simple rule that TOs can override any rule they please. Many TOs are unfamiliar with all FAQs. Not all publicize that they use the INAT. Your antipathy aside, the INAT is out there.

If you aren't, than you can stop arguing the actual merits of this, because 1) it's not relevant, and 2) I don't care.

All anybody needs to know is that there are TOs that will say that Lash is a PSA.

jdjamesdean@mail.com wrote:

Grimgob wrote:

jdjamesdean@mail.com wrote:

Ghenghis Jon wrote:

warboss_Russ! wrote:Orks:
2 - If a battlewagon RAMS, it can roll your vehicle, counts as moving cruising speed regardless of actual movement and tank shocks units on the way.

I had a huge debate on the YMTC forum about the speed of any Ramming Vehicle. Pg 68, par 6, line 2, TANKS: Tank Shock!: "The vehicle must move at least combat speed". My argument was that they should be considered as having moved at top speed no matter how far they moved, but I cannot come up with an argument to convince the rules lawyers who think that distance traveled is the absolute measurement of speed. If you have an idea that I haven't tried, please let me know.

Simply because if you only move 3" that sure as heck isn't 12"

Actually... If your tank shocking troops and declare movement 6" or less you may shoot 1weapon/troops/defensive weapons but if you ram a vehicle it states under the heading Ramming that you must drive top speed and may not shot in that turns shooting phase.

actually, its "move at the highest speed its capable of"69 BGB
If it can only move 3" than 3" it is. There is also the restriction stating the vehicle may not shoot. However embarked passengers may fire if it moved 6"<

Automatically Appended Next Post:

nosferatu1001 wrote:

Ramming - if you move 0 - 6" you have moved combat speed. Thats it. No "rules lawyer" pejoratives required, the rules are rigth there in plain sight: your actual movement is what counts. So if you ram less than 6" you CAN let passengers shoot out, RAW.

Except its in the small rule book pg.69 clearly stated under the Heading Ramming and it says "that you may not shoot that turn". If you ignore that text you are exactly "rules lawyering". Please take this to the YMDC section.

nosferatu1001 wrote:Ramming - if you move 0 - 6" you have moved combat speed. Thats it. No "rules lawyer" pejoratives required, the rules are rigth there in plain sight: your actual movement is what counts. So if you ram less than 6" you CAN let passengers shoot out, RAW.

Actually, JD and Nos are right on the money. The rules are very clear on this one, determining how far a vehicle moved is the actual movement. There is no rider in the ramming section that says it "counts as" moving faster, just that it has to move as far as it CAN... which if it thumps in to your Land Raider after 2 inches and fails to explode it... is 2 inches.

Just goes to show how clear and concise GWs rules are that I'm still learning things about them after ramming people with battlewagons for over a year...


My OP edited to remove LIES


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Grimgob wrote:

Except its in the small rule book pg.69 clearly stated under the Heading Ramming and it says "that you may not shoot that round".

Actually, it says "This means that IT may not shoot in that turn's Shooting phase..." (emphasis mine). The restriction is just on the ramming tank.

Polonius - I'd already mentioned talking to the TO. Apparently you missed that. However any TO that does not publish that theyre using a well published FAQ is setting themselves up for failure

Grimgob - context is everything, notice the IT there? Thats the tank. Passengers are not even considered in that sentence. You then look at the rules and realise that the actual distance you move defines the speed band, not the other way around. So no, youre wrong on this.

nosferatu1001 wrote:Polonius - I'd already mentioned talking to the TO. Apparently you missed that. However any TO that does not publish that theyre using a well published FAQ is setting themselves up for failure

I didn't miss it, I'm just not sure why you keep arguing stuff.

Like you did above in the bold. Does that matter?

No, not in a discussion about what people should know.

Tyranids:

1. Shoot the Hive Guard/Zoanthropes first. You win, as nothing else can touch your vehicles now.
2. Standing behind chest-high-walls(nerd points if you get the reference) will save your army as we're an assault army that is allergic to assault grenades.
3. Most of the Psychic Powers are shooting attacks, even the buffs. We can't cast Catalyst and charge for example.
4. Sitting in a tank protects you from Shadow in the Warp(Because we can't have the filthy Xenos using an effective anti-psyker ability to block all the new Space Marine psykers, now can we? )
5. Standing behind a chest-high-wall or in a bush protects you from the Doom.

Polonius wrote:

nosferatu1001 wrote:Polonus - making INAT an intentional change to the rules. They also publish an FAQ document meaning you can find out the rules changes beforehand, making this a moot point.

Lash isnt a PSA, unless you change the rules so it is. Same as Ramming is a type of Tank Shock, unless you change the rules so it isnt.

Are you saying it's a bad idea to ask the TO about how he runs it?

All anybody needs to know is that there are TOs that will say that Lash is a PSA.

+1

I was just saying MANY of the tournaments across the US use INAT. And not knowing if Lash is going to count as a PSA or not should be in the top 10 of what to know about your army.

4. Sitting in a tank protects you from Shadow in the Warp(Because we can't have the filthy Xenos using an effective anti-psyker ability to block all the new Space Marine psykers, now can we? )

Is that right? I thought it afected psykers in vehicles as well???

whembly wrote:

4. Sitting in a tank protects you from Shadow in the Warp(Because we can't have the filthy Xenos using an effective anti-psyker ability to block all the new Space Marine psykers, now can we? )

Is that right? I thought it afected psykers in vehicles as well???

Sadly not; the lovely Tyranid FAQ rules that Shadows has no effect on psykers inside transports.

Should we turn this into an article or two?

10 Things to know if playing as _____.

10 Things to know if playing against ____.

Huh... didn't know that and I've been playing that wrong...

Is there a stick'ed post somewhere listing all the GW FAQ? Sometimes its a bear to hunt 'em down on GW's site.

whembly wrote:Huh... didn't know that and I've been playing that wrong...

Is there a stick'ed post somewhere listing all the GW FAQ? Sometimes its a bear to hunt 'em down on GW's site.

http://www.google.com/#sclient=psy-ab&hl=en&source=hp&q=Games+workshop+FAQ&pbx=1&oq=Games+workshop+FAQ&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&gs_sm=e&gs_upl=515l2500l0l3203l18l7l0l0l0l0l703l1859l3-2.1.0.1l4l0&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.,cf.osb&fp=5642a2a1f64193d9&biw=1280&bih=823&safe=active

I'm so glad that this thread was dug back up from retirement. This is a very very useful thread concept. Lets keep them coming guys, I've learned a lot myself and I consider myself somewhat of a vet. Great thread for new players and vets alike.

WarOne wrote:Perhaps it is best to let TOs make such decisions regarding rules, and leave it to the players to ask ahead of time how they would interpret the rules of their army based on Codices, FAQs, and other such things.

Remember, there are things such as opinions, but the tourney organizers and their judges turn opinion into law for their events, no matter what you say.

Yay, that always works,er...... except for the nepatism that runs rampit at LGS tournies....

Lol it was rather clear this thread was on a downward spiral due to opinions being tossed in lol.

Since the Eldar one had a few errors in it I'll toss one out there for folks.

1. Witchblades aren't power weapons and singing spears wound non-vehicles on a 2+ but are NOT power weapons
2. Eldar vehicles are not assault vehicles. Eldar in their vehicles will have to move into position and wait for the next turn to get out.
3. Eldar powers must be cast at the beginning of the turn. It even happens before reserves, so things coming in from reserves won't have a chance to be cast on.
4. Farseers can not cast their start of the turn powers if they are coming in from reserves or plan to turboboost while on a jetbike
5. Wraithlords only have 2 attacks base, it takes them a while to kill a squad in CC.
6. Wraithlords, being T8, can't be hurt by str 4 or under attacks (unless they have something like poison etc)
7. Harlequins with Veil of Tear can not be shot by guns further then 24" away... however you can hit that unit next to them with a blast and overlap the blast to hit them.
8. If you rip the guns off a Holofielded Fire Prism, Falcon, or Nightspinner realize that it is stil la serious threat to you.
9. Dire Avenger bladestorm does not allow the unit to fire the next shooting phase
10. The Nightspinner monofiliment web rule makes all units hit, regardless of wound, treat all terrain as difficult and dangerous the next time they move for any reason. This doesn't go away till you move. The dangerous terrain test is per model (yes if the eldar player is feeling like an arse you have to roll each of those 30 boyz one at a time). Only models that move take the test. If you are assaulted you don't roll difficult/dangerous terrain, however it does remove the web effect since you moved.

Polonius - yes, it does matter in a thread on what people should know - it lets them know that some TOs make rulings contrary to the rules of the game, and then dont publicise that fact.

Of course, they can also decide that IG can give orders to units inside vehicles, also not a rule in question but ive seen it ruled.

So pointing out that a TO can change any rule is about as useful as pointing out that TMIR exists.

Wow, this list is an amazing idea!

Is it possible for the OP to edit the original post with all the '10 things you should know' of each army into post #1?

Thanks everyone for your input!

I will add the edit later!

'nids

1) Automatically lose to GK on a D6 roll of 1+
2) Automatically lose to DE if they have enough poison.
3) The 'nids FAQ was written by someone who lost to them too many times in previous editions, and may have been a little bitter.
4) Yes the Carnifex really does cost that many points.
5) The only unit with an assault grenades upgrade in a codex full of melee units really is I1 base.
6) The Lictor reserves/teleport homer 'bonuses' rely on it arriving on turn 2, and anything else that wants to use it arriving inTurn 3 or later. The odds of this happening are roughly 25%, so I hope your strategy doesn't depend on it!
7) Same with the Trygon tunnel.
8) Old One Eye really does cost more than a Land Raider. No, I don't know why either.
9) No units in the codex have Eternal Warrior and very very few have invuln saves.
10) The fearsome and expensive Swarmlord can be ID'd by a single force weapon. See points 1+9.

nosferatu1001 wrote:Polonius - yes, it does matter in a thread on what people should know - it lets them know that some TOs make rulings contrary to the rules of the game, and then dont publicise that fact.

Of course, they can also decide that IG can give orders to units inside vehicles, also not a rule in question but ive seen it ruled.

So pointing out that a TO can change any rule is about as useful as pointing out that TMIR exists.

Wait, I'm confused. I'ts important to let people know that TOs make contrary rulings, but pointing that out is as useful as pointing out TMIR?

You're still arguing the merits. Don't do that in this thread. It doesn't matter how clear cut a rule is, if there are places that play it opposite, players should be aware that such a thing exists.

If 10% of tournaments played that orders could be given to units in vehicles, that would be worth noting in the IG section.

Though if we were to make a list of things people should know about tournaments in general (as opposed to by codex), along with "TOs can change whatever they want," I'd definitely include "the more blustery your opponent gets about a rule, the more you should consult the TO."

Space Marines.

1. Chapter tactics over writes combat tactics.
2. Only a captain can take a command squad
3. drop pods cant fire when they arrive Don't they count as moving cruising speed which means defensive weapons can fire?
4. drop pod occupants take dangerous terrain if they enter terrain disembarking Please explain, this wouldn't happen if you dumped out of a land raider.
5. Special sternguard ammo does not work with pistols only boltguns
6. A dread with chainfist cannot get an extra additional weapon attack
7. servo arms strike at strength 8, no modification; relic blades strike at strength 6, no modification
8. gate of infinity is used at the start of the movement phase, so cannot gate a non troop unit in dawn of war
9. units cannot comabt squad while in reserve (2 transports, etc)
10. locator beacons cannot be premeasured to

I'm new to space marines but the two highlighted above seem off.

xttz wrote:'nids

1) Automatically lose to GK on a D6 roll of 1+
2) Automatically lose to DE if they have enough poison.
3) The 'nids FAQ was written by someone who lost to them too many times in previous editions, and may have been a little bitter.
4) Yes the Carnifex really does cost that many points.
5) The only unit with an assault grenades upgrade in a codex full of melee units really is I1 base.
6) The Lictor reserves/teleport homer 'bonuses' rely on it arriving on turn 2, and anything else that wants to use it arriving inTurn 3 or later. The odds of this happening are roughly 25%, so I hope your strategy doesn't depend on it!
7) Same with the Trygon tunnel.
8) Old One Eye really does cost more than a Land Raider. No, I don't know why either.
9) No units in the codex have Eternal Warrior and very very few have invuln saves.
10) The fearsome and expensive Swarmlord can be ID'd by a single force weapon. See points 1+9.

None of these are especially helpful, and 1-4 are particularly useless. Be less bitter yourself, and try harder.

And yes, I have over 2500 points of Tyranids, still use 'fexen, and still win games.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

the_trooper wrote:

3. drop pods cant fire when they arrive Don't they count as moving cruising speed which means defensive weapons can fire?
4. drop pod occupants take dangerous terrain if they enter terrain disembarking Please explain, this wouldn't happen if you dumped out of a land raider.

I'm new to space marines but the two highlighted above seem off.

Defensive weapons can only be fired if you move Combat Speed, not Cruising Speed (unless you're fast).

Drop Pod occupants count as if arriving from deep strike themselves, thus they take the test. Land Raider occupants don't.

EDIT: Quotefail.

A few corrections on the Eldar summary:

2. A Farseer on a jetbike cannot cast psychic powers on the same turn that it turboboosts.

This is not entirely accurate. Unlike the instance with fast transports stating models cannot embark/disembark if the vehicle is going to go flat out, the turbo boosters rule states a model that has used turbo boosters cannot make voluntary actions for the rest of the turn; Fortune, Guide, and Doom are all cast at the start of the turn and thus can be cast before you turbo boost. Mind War and Eldritch Storm however can't be cast.

7. Falcons do not have Forcefields so you get double melta, ordnance etc.

Ordinance isn't effected by Energy Fields anyway as it is only doing 1D6 penetration.

10. Phoenix lords only affect units of aspect warriors

Phoenix Lords only give Fearless to aspect warriors, and cannot join aspects other than their own. However any other rules of theirs such as Stealth etc can effect any unit they join. The Warithstar is a good example of this.

Orders must be done first before any other shooting, and must be done from most to least senior.

IIRC the latter part here is incorrect.

Godless-Mimicry wrote:A few corrections on the Eldar summary:

2. A Farseer on a jetbike cannot cast psychic powers on the same turn that it turboboosts.

This is not entirely accurate. Unlike the instance with fast transports stating models cannot embark/disembark if the vehicle is going to go flat out, the turbo boosters rule states a model that has used turbo boosters cannot make voluntary actions for the rest of the turn; Fortune, Guide, and Doom are all cast at the start of the turn and thus can be cast before you turbo boost. Mind War and Eldritch Storm however can't be cast.

|It is actually very much accurate. Turbo Boosters states it cannot make any voluntary actions in the same turn, not for the rest of the turn.

7. Falcons do not have Forcefields so you get double melta, ordnance etc.

Ordinance isn't effected by Energy Fields anyway as it is only doing 1D6 penetration.

Ordnance is affected, the Energy Fields rule states that Ordnance only ever rolls one dice, thus losing it's ability to roll 2 and pick the highest.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Vaktathi wrote:

Orders must be done first before any other shooting, and must be done from most to least senior.

IIRC the latter part here is incorrect.

Officers in Company Command Squads must be the first to issue orders, only then can Platoon Command Squads issue theirs.

Paraphrased from pg29 of the IG codex.

Hrm, I'll have to double check my codex when I get home.

Polonius - its as useful as pointing out that anyone can change the rules at any time.

Droppods - they cant fire when they drop as they have moved cruising, and cruising speed disallows firing ANY weapons, unless you are Fast (pods arent) or have PotMS or similar other rule (so, BT Drop pods....)

#1 Under Eldar should go under general rules.

You could add that you can use embolden to reroll psychic tests or that warp spiders have an assault teleport.

Some blood angels stuff.

Mephiston is not an IC
DoA lets you scatter 1d6 less

olympia wrote:
TAU
1. A Pathfinder devifish cannot Outflank without them.
2. Markerlights can only increase BS to 5. Cover save reductions can only applicable to the single selected firing unit. Declare function before shooting.
3. Drones connected to a unit of Firewarriors do count toward squad size
4. Attached Drones follow the rules for defensive weapons on a Tank (despite S5), but use their own BS of 2.
5. Broadsides cannot drop a large blast like a Hammerhead
6. Kroot have Leadership 7 without their Shaper
7. If a tank is destroyed, any attached drones may not disembark and are destroyed, but do not give an additional Killpoint.
8. Attached drones may disembark during the player movement phase at any point within 2" of the vehicle hull. These units do give kill points.
9. Ethereals only gives the bonus/malus for Leadership Tests to Tau units if they are within LOS to the Ethereal
10. A commander with only gundrones still counts as an IC. In combat the IC + Drones are counted as a single separate unit.

Um....where did you get this from? Perhaps there are not enough Tau players in the audience to argue with you, but several things here appear to be untrue.

1. Yes, as far as I know, it can. It's dedicated transport, dedicated transports can share in a units scout, same as GK rhinos for a squad that has benefited from Grand Strategy.
4. No, they don't. They're in all ways passengers. They fire on their own, as their own unit. They may fire if the DF moves less than 6", but may not if it moves more than 6", and in no way count towards the number of weapons the DF is firing (which can only ever be 1).



Automatically Appended Next Post:

1. Attack bikes are scoring units when taken as add-ons to bikers; the same applies to land speeders as part of a Ravenwing Attack Squad.
2. Deep striking terminators do not scatter when within 6'' of bikes (all come standard with beacon). Model must be placed first and then measurements taken.
3. Up to half of the reserved terminator squads may be brought in by deepstrike in turn 1. This does not have to be declared until turn 1.
4. Ravenwing bikes have a scout move. This means that if given first turn, the bikers can move 24'' (12'' scout + 12'' movement) and still fire. (Ye be warned Landraiders).
5. Ravenwing bikers CANNOT turbo boost as their scout move.
6. All terminators and bikers are fearless.
7. Belial makes terminators a troop choice when he enters the army.
8. When taking an apothecary, cyclone and standard bearer with Belial's terminator squad. There are six different model types in the squad. (Creates a wound distribution advantage)
9. Standard provides extra attack to entire squad (Makes for 25 S8 I1 attacks on the charge from this unit)
10. Belial is WS5 with 3W

#5 is specifically untrue. The main 40k FAQ specifically says bikes may turbo-boost during their scout move, they just must remain 12" away from the enemy during this move.

Space Marines.

1. Chapter tactics over writes combat tactics.
2. Only a captain can take a command squad
3. drop pods cant fire when they arrive
4. drop pod occupants take dangerous terrain if they enter terrain disembarking
5. Special sternguard ammo does not work with pistols only boltguns
6. A dread with chainfist cannot get an extra additional weapon attack
7. servo arms strike at strength 8, no modification; relic blades strike at strength 6, no modification
8. gate of infinity is used at the start of the movement phase, so cannot gate a non troop unit in dawn of war
9. units cannot comabt squad while in reserve (2 transports, etc)
10. locator beacons cannot be premeasured to

#6 is untrue. It was a stupid arguement previously -- The chainfist is clearly meant to be another form of DCCW. Anyway, it's been errated.

Look, if you're going to list a list of "facts" like this, you're under an extra burden to make sure they're all correct.

Sir_Prometheus wrote:
Automatically Appended Next Post:

5. Ravenwing bikers CANNOT turbo boost as their scout move.

#5 is specifically untrue. The main 40k FAQ specifically says bikes may turbo-boost during their scout move, they just must remain 12" away from the enemy during this move.

Actual 5 is right. The Dark Angel rulebook trumps the 40k BRB and says they may not.

In fact, it states "Nobody can turboboost during their scout move", the Dark Angels are very good at preventing their opponents bikes from getting into position.

1. Nightshields do not work on weapons that have 6” or less range.
2. Wolf Scouts enter the board on the left table edge on a roll of ‘1’, and the right table edge on a roll of a ‘2’. Only on a roll of 3-6 does the SW player get to choose.
3. Tau disruption pods do not work if you are within 12’
4. Deffrollas have no AP
5. Grey Knight units have leadership 9 and besides purifiers they are not fearless.
6. Most Ork, Tryanid, and Dark Eldar (besides Wytches), Terminators (besides GKs), and Chaos Demons (besides demonettes and seekers) do not have grenades.
7. Necrons do not get a WWB roll if you kill all of the same model type within 6”.
8. Hive Guard do not need line of sight to shoot, and to get cover you have to be in terrain.
9. A Manticore only has 4 shots.
10. Wave Serpents Energy Field that lowers weapons to strength 8 and removes the extra dice for penetration does not work when you shoot at the rear.

Sir_prometheus, I'm afraid you are wrong on all counts.

olympia wrote:Sir_prometheus, I'm afraid you are wrong on all counts.

I'm sorry, you're going to have to back that up. I concede the point that Timmah pointed out on Ravenwing bikers, I wasn't aware of the specific mention in the Dark Angels codex, but the rest of it I'm pretty sure on.

Isn't the Dread getting an extra attack with a chainfist now true per the new ertta. Since its just a DCCW that rolls 2d10 for pen. No longer using the chainfist rules.

Sir_P - point 1, the poster was saying the devilfish cannout Outflank WITHOUT the unit inside - whcih it cannot, as it does not have Scout

So you were wrong there, as you misread the poster

Ah, OK, fair enough. Not too why you would want to do that, though, which kinda makes you wonder why it was worth mentioning.

That leaves then:

Tau DF drones shooting as defensive weapons (nope passenegers)

Dreadnought chain fists (which, someone else has also pointed out were errated.)

Sir_Prometheus wrote:Ah, OK, fair enough. Not too why you would want to do that, though, which kinda makes you wonder why it was worth mentioning.

That leaves then:

Tau DF drones shooting as defensive weapons (nope passenegers)

Dreadnought chain fists (which, someone else has also pointed out were errated.)

Well an outflanking fish with kroot inside could be quite useful. Or just an outflanking warfish (a tank that you have to pay for anyway) with seeker missles/flechettes could also be quite disruptive.

And regarding the other Tau point:

4. They are not "in all ways passengers", not by a long shot. They may disembark in the movement phase like passengers, but this is the only time they are treated as such.

Whilst attached to the vehicle, the drones fire "as part of" the vehicle with their own BS of 2 and may do so in addition to any other weapons that would normally be permitted to fire.

And finally now due to the new FAQ, if a vehicle is destroyed they are no longer treated as passengers and instead automatically die with the vehicle (thankfully not giving up an extra kill point either...)

So they essentially follow the same rules as defensive weapons (apart from the S5 and BS2 which was mentioned in the original point).


Regards the errata, I'm guessing there is some ambiguity still around the wording as to whether it is still a different type of DCCW and therefore cannot be combined with the normal DCCW for the extra attack. Much like a model armed with a Powerfist and a Thunderhammer.

If Drones were passengers, then they would not be allowed to fire due to the Devilfish having no fire points, and would take up 2 of the alloted spaces in the Devilfish as well as disallowing any unit from entering it until they detatch.

Also:
Q. Can gun drones mounted on a vehicle still fire if the
vehicle is Shaken, Stunned, moved too fast, or isnʼt
allowed to fire its weapons for any other reason? (p30)
A. No, Gun Drones mounted on a vehicle may only fire if
the vehicle is allowed to fire at least one weapon.
&
Q: What happens to the gun drones on a vehicle if the
vehicle is destroyed? (p30)
A: The gun drones will be destroyed along with the
vehicle. Note that they do not give away an additional kill
point as they have not been detached from the vehicle.

This clearly shows that drones do not function as passengers on a vehicle, but as part of the vehicle themselves, also note this from the Tau Codex:

"While attached, the Gun Drones may fire as part of the vehicle, using their own BS, in addition to any other weapons that would normally be permitted to fire."

Avatar 720 wrote:If Drones were passengers, then they would not be allowed to fire due to the Devilfish having no fire points, and would take up 2 of the alloted spaces in the Devilfish as well as disallowing any unit from entering it until they detatch.

Also:
Q. Can gun drones mounted on a vehicle still fire if the
vehicle is Shaken, Stunned, moved too fast, or isnʼt
allowed to fire its weapons for any other reason? (p30)
A. No, Gun Drones mounted on a vehicle may only fire if
the vehicle is allowed to fire at least one weapon.
&
Q: What happens to the gun drones on a vehicle if the
vehicle is destroyed? (p30)
A: The gun drones will be destroyed along with the
vehicle. Note that they do not give away an additional kill
point as they have not been detached from the vehicle.

This clearly shows that drones do not function as passengers on a vehicle, but as part of the vehicle themselves, also note this from the Tau Codex:

"While attached, the Gun Drones may fire as part of the vehicle, using their own BS, in addition to any other weapons that would normally be permitted to fire."

I'm sorry, no. All those shooting restrictions apply to passengers, as well. They are, essentially, passengers, with their own dedicated fire point, though it's not stated in those terms. The key difference being that yes, they are destroyed if the tank dies. But as far as shooting goes, they in all ways act as passengers.

But what they definitely ain't is "another pair of defensive weapons on the DF". If that were true, they wouldn't be able to fire at all in addition to the main gun if the DF moved at all (assuming no multi-tracker). But that's not true, they can. They also wouldn't be able to fire at a different target, but they can.

They shoot as passengers, not weapons.

With Space Marines using Combat Squads, can one half of the Squad be in a rhino and the other half be placed in a strategic sniping position (aka heavy weapon placement)

theQuanz wrote:With Space Marines using Combat Squads, can one half of the Squad be in a rhino and the other half be placed in a strategic sniping position (aka heavy weapon placement)

Yes, although that is slightly off topic and would belong in the YMDC section.

Sir_Prometheus wrote:They shoot as passengers, not weapons.

There is no rule anywhere that says this, at least not in 5th Ed. I think Avatar 720 covered all the bases with the direct quotations of the rules/FAQ.

You cant just ignore this quote (p 30 Tau Codex):
"While attached, the Gun Drones may fire as part of the vehicle, using their own BS, in addition to any other weapons that would normally be permitted to fire."

If that were true, they wouldn't be able to fire at all in addition to the main gun if the DF moved at all (assuming no multi-tracker). But that's not true, they can.

You need to read the rules for defensive weapons again, as defensive weapons can indeed fire in this instance. Defensive weapons p.58 and fast vehicles p.70

They also wouldn't be able to fire at a different target, but they can.

Again there is no rule to support this. They may however split fire as part of a vehicle if the vehicle has Target Lock upgrade.



I'm sorry but once again you are wrong.

They're not defensive weapons, they're Str 5.

You're reading entirely too much into "fired as part of the vehicle". They use their own BS. They fire on their own. They're god-damned passengers. I'll admit the rule is written kinda weirdly, but in GW speak, they're just passengers firing same time as the vehicle.

I would edit the necron one a bit, as its more than just "info" but implied tactics as well.
(I am not saying the tactics are bad, I am saying this thread seems to be about info so players can make their own tactical decisions).

Necrons

1. Destroyers and Heavy Destroyers have only a single wound, and a 3+ save.
2. You only ever get 1d armor penetration against a monolith; its very explicit in the codex.
3. Phase out is checked after WBB rolls are made.
4. The Tomb spider is a MC, but has only two wounds and no invul, and is not fleet.
5. Necrons get a WBB from a sweeping advance, as you would normally remove them as casualties during at the end of the assault phase.
6. A model only gets to make a WBB roll if; 1) There is a live model within 6", or 2) there is another model on the table of the same type, AND a tomb spyder within 12"
7. WBB is not FNP; weapon AP is not a consideration, only weapons that ignore armor saves in CC or attacks that cause instant death will prevent WBB.
8. Necrons can teleport out of CC with veil using deep strike, and by using the monolith (The squad must be partially within 24 inches of the monolith. aka 5 out of a squad of 10 must be within 24 of the monolith). A unit teleported through a monolith portal may re-roll failed WBB rolls, only if the models were eligible in the first place.
9. A monolith can't move if it is stunned, and can't shoot it's Gauss flux arc if it's shaken or stunned. A monolith can't shoot it's Gauss flux arc and particle whip at the same time, nor can a monolith use it's portal and it's particle whip in the same turn.
10. Ctan have no long ranged shooting attacks, and ONLY have a 4++ invul, are not fleet, do not have eternal warrior and are 300 and 360 points respectively.




Automatically Appended Next Post:
General rules #9;
A vehicle may not fire any weapons after a ram attack. A skimmer cannot dodge a ram attack from another skimmer.

Sir_Prometheus wrote:They're not defensive weapons, they're Str 5.

You're reading entirely too much into "fired as part of the vehicle". They use their own BS. They fire on their own. They're god-damned passengers. I'll admit the rule is written kinda weirdly, but in GW speak, they're just passengers firing same time as the vehicle.

You're simply playing a game of assumptions. There is nothing that states they get their own fire points, therefore they cannot shoot since a Devilfish has none, and no unit can board a devilfish since it is already occupied by the Drones. Furthermore, using your 'logic' you would not be able to put Gun Drones on a Hammerhead, Piranha or Sky-ray, despite there being an option to, because they cannot have passengers.

Show me the quote that says Gun Drones are passengers or treated as passengers apart from they're detaaching from the vehicle.

Also, provided the Devilfish can fire a gun, the Gun Drones can to. They're not defensive weapons, but they may as well be, because if a Devilfish without a tracker moves 6", he can fire his S5 burst cannon AND the drones can fire, despite them also being S5.

Unless you can provide hard evidence to rebut the masses of evidence that is opposing you, then please can you stop trying to argue this point; this thread was created to serve people who may not be in the know, and all you're doing is confusing what should otherwise be a very straightforward topic by arguing using baseless assumptions.

Please take this conversation to YMDC. You're cluttering up my thread. Hmph.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
davethepak, thank you for the necron items! I have swapped them for the ones I had. They were good pieces of information but I do prefer your list because it addresses mistakes and such.

Olympia - please note there are some errors in the Necron one

#5 - incorrect. WBB is a special rule that tries to save the unit and is therefore disallowed by SA, because it does not specifically states it works against SA as SA requires it to do. Necrons do NOT get WBB against SA, and that includes any awaiting WBB as they are part of the unit that was Swept UNTIL their next turn, when they MAY join another unit.

#10 - incorrect. Nightbringer essentially has a lascannon.

Thanks nos.

Just a fine point on Black Templars

#10: Also they don't have Sergeants or Frag/Krak grenades.

The HQ squads have sergeants. Also, while they don't have Frag/Kraks FOR FREE like other marine codecies. But they can buy them.

Otherwise, good list.

Thanks kronk. Edited.

Just noticed this one on the Black Templars:

6. A Marshal/Castellan and a Master of Sanctity/Reclusiarch (Captain and Chaplain) can be joined to a command squad and counts as 1 HQ choice. They are also not ICs as long as the squad is alive.

Sorry, the Black Templar HQ's are not retinues. If you read the entry on HQ's (don't have page number in front of me), it states that Marshals and so on in the HQ squads may not leave the squad, but are always considered IC's.

This is one that comes up a lot on the B&C forums and I've seen it on the YMDC forums, before. It is poor wording and placement in the Black Templar codex that causes this, IMHO.

kronk, i've applied an edit to #6 but feel free to suggest other wording.

"10. Last one...BT units may roll using the Marshal/Castellans leadership should they choose to only if he is alive. Also they must pay for Sergeants and Frag/Krak grenades. "


I would change that to:

10. Last one...BT units may roll using the Marshal/Castellans leadership should they choose to only if he is alive. Also they must pay for Frag/Krak grenades. Only HQ squads have sergeants.


"6. Marshals and so (sanctity, reculsiarch, etc) in the HQ squads are not retinues and may not leave the squad, but are always considered IC's. "

Correct!

thanks for doing this, by the way. I am not familiar with a lot of these armies.

Edit added kronk. Got any Blood Angel items while you're feeling generous?

Unsure if you're looking for more, but a possible addition to the Tau one:

Tau:
Models using Target Locks have to declare seperate targets before their unit rolls to hit.

Also one for vanilla SM, SW, BA, BT, DA, and GKs:
A vehicle with PotMS cannot fire a weapon on the turn it uses smoke launchers.

olympia wrote:Edit added kronk. Got any Blood Angel items while you're feeling generous?

Nah. I wish. My buddy crushes me with his...

Avatar 720 wrote:Unsure if you're looking for more, but a possible addition to the Tau one:

Tau:
Models using Target Locks have to declare seperate targets before their unit rolls to hit.

Also one for vanilla SM, SW, BA, BT, DA, and GKs:
A vehicle with PotMS cannot fire a weapon on the turn it uses smoke launchers.

Added the potms to the general rules. It's a keeper. As for the Tau item, which one would you replace with your item about target locks?

Probably the reference to the Kroot Ld.

BRB: Large Flying Base vehicles must move faster than combat speed on the turn they arrive from reserve.
Eldar: Dark Reaper Exarch cannot use Fast shot and Crack Shot in the same turn.
Necrons: The Deciever may leave combat only on your opponents turn, and cannot be surrounded to death (as his distance moved will be extended to accomidate his escape)
The Monolith cannot be glanced to death.
Scarabs can turboboost for a 2+ cover save.
Tombspiders can generate a scarab and keep in next to them in cover for a 3+ cover save.
Tyranids: Doom of the Malantai is T4, and does not have Eternal Warrior.

Necrons - unless by AP1 weapons, when it can be glanced "to death"

Nice thread, olympia.

I think there is something off for Chaos Daemons on line 7. I don't have my Chaos Daemon codex with me, as I am at work, but I believe that Seekers and mounted Slaanesh Heralds are both cavalry. If there is some other ruling for tournaments, I may be off.

Keep up the good work!

nosferatu1001 wrote:Necrons - unless by AP1 weapons, when it can be glanced "to death"

Doh. you got me! I almost always forget that.

Nictolopy wrote:Nice thread, olympia.

I think there is something off for Chaos Daemons on line 7. I don't have my Chaos Daemon codex with me, as I am at work, but I believe that Seekers and mounted Slaanesh Heralds are both cavalry. If there is some other ruling for tournaments, I may be off.

Keep up the good work!

Yes you're right, however beasts and cavalry use exactly the same rules so there is no need to distinguish.

I think it should be pointed out that Dreadnoughts may disembark anywhere from a storm raven. i think this is stupid as it describes it as being in the grapple at the rear, but it uses the access points like the infantry inside to disembark. This at first caught me off guard as conceptually it makes no sense when you are playing it, but it effectively gives a death company dreadnought with talons a 28.5 inch possible assault range (12" move + 2" disembark + 2.5" base + 6" fleet + 6" assault).... Stupid good.

Red Corsair that is indeed vital information. However, I'd prefer to keep the list "can't do" as much as possible (although I am lacking in BA items). In my experience players seem to "forget" only the bad stuff. I've never met a space wolf player who forget about counter-attack, but even the best seem to forget about the Njal FAQ.

Fair enough, I thought this thread was more for a list of things to prep for rather then a list of can't do's as I find the can't do list could run on forever...

Example:

"GK terminators are LD 9, Strikers 8 with out Justicar"

How does this fall into the can't do's? Of 180 items listed, 15 are can't do and most are just reiterations of profiles.... Why are you telling people Orks are str3 I2???

Most of your lists are made up of these, not thnigs that are can't do's....

I am not trying to sound chippy I am just curious what your standards are for "THE LIST" as now I can't figure out if this is supposed to be a useful list or just pointing out facts that you don't think are obvious enough...

My preferred criteria for the list are things I have seen people get fethed over by at tournaments. I prefer "can't do" but include negative attributes as well. That the standard GK (not the justicar) is LD8 is something I consider to be a negative attribute and it is also something I have seen neglected at tournaments.

Also, I'm telling people ork boys are S3 and I2 because in my experience many people assume orks are the same S as a space marine. In addition, there was an ork tournament player I know who routinely played his orks as I3. There are some reall WAAC donkey-caves out there.

I've add the info about Death Company dreads. Do all death company have the Rage USR?

olympia wrote:
2. A Farseer on a jetbike cannot cast psychic powers on the same turn that it turboboosts.
3. You cannot deploy a Farseer and his Jetlocks in Dawn of War as they count as 2 HQ choices. They have to move on at the start of Turn 1 and because Fortune must be cast at the start of the turn the Seer can't cast it on Turn 1.

Wrong.
Even on jetbikes, the Warlocks count as Bodyguards. With one seer on the board, they count as one HQ chioce in the force organisation HQ slot, however when the whole unit is killed (when both the locks and the seer die) only then will the two kill points be conceded. One seer, and a bodyguard of 3-10 warlocks count as ONE HQ CHOICE. The psychic powers that are not shooting attacks can be cast before movement.

General Rules
1. You may not go back and move units that have already moved once you have started moving another unit.

This. Plus it should be in bold.

I see players go back and move their units, or reposition individual models in the units after moving something else all the time.

EldarN00b wrote:

olympia wrote:
2. A Farseer on a jetbike cannot cast psychic powers on the same turn that it turboboosts.
3. You cannot deploy a Farseer and his Jetlocks in Dawn of War as they count as 2 HQ choices. They have to move on at the start of Turn 1 and because Fortune must be cast at the start of the turn the Seer can't cast it on Turn 1.

Wrong.
Even on jetbikes, the Warlocks count as Bodyguards. With one seer on the board, they count as one HQ chioce in the force organisation HQ slot, however when the whole unit is killed (when both the locks and the seer die) only then will the two kill points be conceded. One seer, and a bodyguard of 3-10 warlocks count as ONE HQ CHOICE. The psychic powers that are not shooting attacks can be cast before movement.

The Warlocks are one UNIT and the Farseer is another UNIT. They can be joined together but do not have to be. In DoW deployment, it is not based on Force Org chart exclusively; it is based on number of units taken from the FOC. The statement is correct that you cannot deploy the Farseer and Warlocks together in the DoW.

Turbo Boost rules indicate those particular models may not take any other voluntary actions during the same turn they turbo boost. Taking a psychic test for Fortune is widely considered a voluntary action, therefore cannot Turboboost and cast Fortune.


@ Olympia: In regards to skimmers ending their movement on ruins or buildings: did you use the term 'landing' intentionally (IE: skimmers land in terrain in an effort to avoid LOS/dangerous terrain etc...)? Otherwise, the rules tell you what to do when ending its movement in/on terrain features. I don't understand your statements intention.

Eldarnoob - wrong
Seer council are an HQ choice that does not take up a slot. They are a UNIT in the same way the Farseerr is a UNIT, and in DoW all that matters is how many UNITS you deploy.

So if you try to put 2 HQ units down, you have broken DoW restrictions. In addition, as both are units, they are worth a KP each. They are not, in any way shape or form a bodyguard retinue

You cannot use Fortune then TB, because TB disallows ANY VOLUNTARY ACTION THAT TURN. Was fortune a voluntary action? Yes? Then you cannot TB, as you have perform a voluntary action that turn.

@Sarigar. This is a tricky one. Skimmers are not on the list of things permitted to move up in ruins but you're saying that they can land on the top eh? Hmm.... Perhaps it should be replaced with a 'safer' item.

Yeah I was wondering about that because the skimmer can land where its base can fit no matter what so it's another debate.

Ok, thanks! No problem, I was just trying to figure out what criteria to limit myself to because as I said, it could get out of hand.
Blood Angels:
Yea death company and there Dread both have rage which is definitely overlooked, also Sanguinary priests are IC so you may target them in CC which also is neglected. Mephiston is T6 but NOT Eternal Warrior so you can force/Bone sword him. Blood Talons are Str 6 as they are not a Dreadnought CC weapon.

I was limited in time so sorry if these are of no help at this point...

-Corsair

Skimmers (and jetbikes) can move up ruins. Measure the actual displacement - see the example in the rulebook

I am on phone only this weekend but i will revisit the skimmer item monday

Grey Knight Paladins with an apothecary make most things cry except lots of str 8+ ap 1 weaponry

Or AP2, or always ignores armour saves

Crafter wrote:

Nictolopy wrote:Nice thread, olympia.

I think there is something off for Chaos Daemons on line 7. I don't have my Chaos Daemon codex with me, as I am at work, but I believe that Seekers and mounted Slaanesh Heralds are both cavalry. If there is some other ruling for tournaments, I may be off.

Keep up the good work!

Yes you're right, however beasts and cavalry use exactly the same rules so there is no need to distinguish.

I am still relatively new and have yet to face beasts or cavalry. I never caught that they are the same, movement-wise. See? The list is educating the masses already!

It might be important to note that Chaos Terminators are NOT Relentless, nor do they have rules in the codex allowing them to move and fire their twin-linked Bolters at 24" range as if they were Relentless, they're only allowed to move and fire Heavy weapons, or assault after firing Rapid-Fire or Heavy weapons.

But I can't think of what to replace in the CSM list...

For a general rule I would have:

Passengers cannot fire from an opened topped vehicle if it moves over 6".

CSM:
You dont have to charge the squad you lashed. Lash can be used while in combat(though not on the unit your fighting).

IG:
Platoon command squads can never join the platoon infantry squads.
Vendetta/Valk's cant disembark/embark a squad in a turn that they will move flat out or have moved flat out.
There is no negative penalty to emergency disembarking on your opponents turn(faq says it only works for that player turn for the pinned).

Dark Eldar:
The duke has to deploy with a warriors/trueborn squad to start off the game unless there isnt any.
If you use enhanced aethersails the vehicle and the squad cannot shoot in the following shooting phase.
Splinter cannons on venoms = defensive weapons Strength = X (dont qoute me on this)

Daemons:
Most fate/crusher list have 6" movement across the board except fateweaver (stay back).
Blood crushers dont have fleet.
Fiends of slannesh are only toughness 4, 2W, and only a 5+ invul. But they are one of the fastest units in the codex due to the 12" charge move.

IG:
1. Leman Russ Punisher is better than everyone thinks. Seriously.
2. Ignore what everyone says. Vendettas will be shot down during turn one.
3. There is no need to take Ratlings. AT ANY POINT.
4. Only veterans with no doctrines are worth it.
5. This list will be hated.
7. CCS should NEVER engage the enemy directly (unless led by "Iron hand" Straken
8. You notice that there is no rule number six.

Tomb King wrote:Daemons:
Fiends of slannesh are only toughness 3 but are the fastest unit in the codex.

Fiends are T4. Seekers are T3.

Tomb King wrote:Fiends of slannesh are only toughness 3 but are the fastest unit in the codex.

Fiends are T4 and are just as fast as Seekers or Fleshhounds. And "fastest" is hard to say one way or another. Jump infantry/winged MCs/Chariots/jetbikes all have more base movement. Fiends only have range advantage when they're within charge distance (and even then they're tied with Seekers and Fleshhounds). Otherwise they move as slow as any other infantry.

Blackmoor wrote:For a general rule I would have:

Passengers cannot fire from an opened topped vehicle if it moves over 6".

Agreed.

Reanimating this thread with a request: anyone have suggestions for the new Necron codex?