I still don't know what to think of ghost21's rumours, but here they are:

Expect mini forces from various places.
I really shouldn't, but there is going to be mini armies like allies or something (not sure on exact wording).
There will be things like an Araby one and Kislev, also I heard Estalia, and oddly some insect kingdom

rodmillard wrote:Maybe I misread it, but I thought Ghost was talking about a separate allies book with rules for Araby, Kislev, Tilea and the "Insectoids" (sounds alot like what some fans have been suggesting for a DoW replacement). AFAIK it had nothing to do with the forthcoming Empire release except to say that Kislev won't be in there.

That's exactly what I meant
(...)
It's an expansion book. I'm told it won't effect the releases of other armies
(...)
Honestly you will see them in WD before book form
(...)
I think Chaos Dwarfs are a FW thing for now, sorry
There are 5 "states" in the book / supplement,
apparently 2 "good", 1 neutrall, and 2 "evil-ish"
and when you think of fishmen?... there are far more disturbing creatures in the sea than just fish... *cough ithilids cough *

Voss wrote:Anyone have any real inkling if this would involve bringing back old sculpts (as in kislev) or new sculpts?

They will use some old sculpts, new horses so I'm told

But then Harry supports this rumour:

Harry wrote:I will leave the first post to Ghost as he has been in the chair on this one but here is my take on this:

This has got Vetock written all over it.

Mt Vetock also made a random comment to me about Kislev that I posted in the Empire thread that whilst it didn't make much sense to me at the time makes perfect sense in this context.

Loved the little Kislev contingent army book.

This takes me right back to the 2nd edition contingent rules.

I saw some fantastic concept art from the Blanchitsu of some fantasy pirates so I wouldn't bet against pirates being a contingent.

I have also seen a concept sketch for an 'Ichthyus sapien' from Mr Blanche ... He showed it to me over a year ago ... I thought he had shown it to me just to yank my chain ... but now I'm not so sure.

I have to say I do hope it is so ... cos it was £!*%$!^& cool.

Picking up on What Ghost said. Something else makes sense now...I can see them releasing each of these contingents one at a time as White Dwarf articles. Spread over several months and then pulling them together into a book at the end. (OR even little mini contingent books free with WD like the Kislev book).

For me .... a supplement like this would be a dream come true. This is right up my street.
I also already have small contingents of Estallians, Araby and Kislev just waiting in the wings. Waiting to be expanded.

So by all means ....

BRING IT ON!

Estalians, Araby, and Kislev would be great, and a more generic DoW release would likewise be great.

Not holding my breath though.

I hope these rumors are true, they sound awesome.

God, I hope Albion makes an appearance. I love the idea of them as a kind of barbarian/celt contingent...

I hope theres some plasticy goodness from this!

All of it sounds cool to me. Lately Ive been on a fantasy minis kick, and some fresh stuff would be nice.

The rumors about an insect kingdom answers so many questions that I had about that insectoid head dangling from the belly of the new Ogre Kingdoms fire caster. Wonder if thats a "hiding in plain sight" preview of whats to come?

I still wish that they'd done a proper DoW update for 6th/7th/8th - I'd like to still be able to run Long Drong's Slayers or the Goblinhewer in a Dwarf army.

This does sound interesting, though - we'll see what comes of it. Kroothawk, is there any word on timescales from either source?

NELS1031 wrote:The rumors about an insect kingdom answers so many questions that I had about that insectoid head dangling from the belly of the new Ogre Kingdoms fire caster. Wonder if thats a "hiding in plain sight" preview of whats to come?

I noticed that too. There's another bit of the same creature dangling off his hammer. They did something quite similar with DE ur-ghuls so I can see it happening again I guess.

Please excuse my ignorance but how does DoW relate to warhammer?

spiraleddie wrote:Please excuse my ignorance but how does DoW relate to warhammer?

Dogs of War, basically ally contingents.

To be more precise: The Dogs of War were a mercenary Warhammer army, mostly hailing from Tilea (Italy) that could be joined to other armies as allies. They could also take certain special "regiments of renown" lead by named characters.
On Wikipedia

This sounds excellent, although the lack of Cathay and the presence of insectmen kind of ruins the feel for me, and I was hoping for them as a WF expansion- this would probably be more cut down. Nevertheless, new Dogs, Kislev and Araby makes Vampie a happy boy.

This would be a very good way of getting some more alternative plastic human kits from GW.

IG players that want to convert their regiments would be all over this as well.

NELS1031 wrote:The rumors about an insect kingdom answers so many questions that I had about that insectoid head dangling from the belly of the new Ogre Kingdoms fire caster. Wonder if thats a "hiding in plain sight" preview of whats to come?

Not really, those parts are from the lava-burrowing fire beetle that an Ogre has to eat as part of the ritual to gain fire spells.

I would love to see some Cathay troops. Hell... I want a Cathay army.

On the side-note of IG.

Yeah! Bring on the Vitrian Dragoons, The Royal Volpone 50th "Bluebloods", New plastic Tanith, Hyrkan 8th, Savlar Chem Dogs etc. It would be great to see more plastic kits than the Cadians and Catachans.

Return of the fantasy Cossacks? Yes please!

So let me get this straight... We wait how many years for a Chaos Dwarf army list, with GW insisting publically they would "get around to them eventually", privately that hell will go into a new ice age before Alan Merrett would allow them to be released.

Then we get a reasonable list from WF (yay) but without basic CD warriors in it..

Then GW finally decides to release lists for not only one non existant army but 4 or 5 (non existant as in no list in the past)!?!?

Seriously peeved at that.

All they need to do is create 3 units, a couple of heroes and maybe another warmachine (none of which NEED to have models), and say 'for everything else use the Legion of Azgorh list'.

Rabid Ferret wrote:On the side-note of IG.

Yeah! Bring on the Vitrian Dragoons, The Royal Volpone 50th "Bluebloods", New plastic Tanith, Hyrkan 8th, Savlar Chem Dogs etc. It would be great to see more plastic kits than the Cadians and Catachans.

I suspect that notprop meant that new WHFB human kits could be mixed with existing IG components to make new regiments, Mr Ferret, not that new IG kits were on the way.

Grimstonefire wrote:So let me get this straight... We wait how many years for a Chaos Dwarf army list, with GW insisting publically they would "get around to them eventually", privately that hell will go into a new ice age before Alan Merrett would allow them to be released.

Then we get a reasonable list from WF (yay) but without basic CD warriors in it..

Then GW finally decides to release lists for not only one non existant army but 4 or 5 (non existant as in no list in the past)!?!?

Seriously peeved at that.

All they need to do is create 3 units, a couple of heroes and maybe another warmachine (none of which NEED to have models), and say 'for everything else use the Legion of Azgorh list'.

I have to agree.

GW, I am disappoint.

Give me


FIMIR!

MeanGreenStompa wrote:Give me


FIMIR!

You can't afford them!

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/170706223877?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649

Admittedly, that's one of those once-in-a-while eBay flukes where someone, basically, goes temporarily insane. Or something...

Valete,

JohnS

The sad thing is that 11 people have bid for that.
And Stompa, there's apparently Fimir Warriors in Magic Arcana.

Makes sense but I also wonder if it might be wishlisting based on the pacts and stuff that are in the Storm of Magic, like where you can add in some vampire count allies to your army. Or maybe that was just GW testing the waters to see if people liked the idea enough to turn that into a whole expansion?

If they did Albion, I suggest that they would have to balance it Out with some Fimir and/or dare I say fishmen!

@ Dystartes - bang on the money mate.

People still think GW cares about fantasy?

Good luck with that.

Grot 6 wrote:People still think GW cares about anything not Space Marines?

Good luck with that.

Fixed that for you

kenshin620 wrote:

Grot 6 wrote:People still think GW cares about anything not Space Marines?

Good luck with that.

Fixed that for you

There you go. Thanks

cygnnus wrote:

MeanGreenStompa wrote:Give me


FIMIR!

You can't afford them!

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/170706223877?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649

Admittedly, that's one of those once-in-a-while eBay flukes where someone, basically, goes temporarily insane. Or something...

Valete,

JohnS

Time to hit Ebay with my still in blister Fimir.

Meh to this. Some new kits for existing old units please e.g. High/Dark Elf Spearmen, Tomb King Skeletons, Goblin Wolf Riders, Dwarf Warriors, Zombies, Plague Monks, Gutter Runners, Empire/Bretonian Knights etc etc etc

Wait... an insect kingdom? For serious? So... another race that has no basis in fluff miraculously appearing? Inventing a book for humans and another race instead of releasing Woodelves?

Why does that seem so

Kislev/Ogres then WE

...familiar?

:ponders:

So not down for insect warriors.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Citadel-Games-Workshop-Fimir-vintage-chaos-monster-28mm-metal-fantasy-figure-/250906350566?pt=UK_Toys_Wargames_RL&hash=item3a6b2f13e6#ht_713wt_1185

current rates are less inflated

Some updates:

Mirbeau wrote:I can perhaps contribute. Some concepts on Araby were finished around 5 months ago, I though they were just for dreadfleet (@ harry - the something big) but nothing of what was described to me ended up in the book/game. I must say from what I was told what was seen certainly didn't imply a 'good' faction. I wouldn't be suprised at all to see them expanded upon further.

Harry wrote:Come to that is their a hint of what "ithilids look like with dark elf corsairs banner and the mask on the special character released at the same time.
All very Ithilid like.
A project like this would have been on the pipeline back when Brian was working on this kit.

mrweaver wrote:My guess, assuming the 2 good/1 neutral/2 evil(ish) suggestion proves on target:
Good: Tilea and Kislev (although I would love halflings back)
Neutral: Araby
Evil: Sartosa/Pirates and the insect/aquatic fellows

I think that sounds about right except that ghost implies that the insect race may not be bad guys which might make them neutral and Araby the bad guys.

There is a cool Araby wizard with harem guards planned, looks really cool (female guards, big scimitar swords)
Each "contingent" has 3-4 units, 1-2 characters.
There is also a djinn (look at Araby dread fleet ship for inspiration).
They will probably appear in WD first..I know that the planned book has 5 (planned) but they want to test the waters first
Araby is kinda odd: they can be good and evil but they are not the neutral race (I said evil-ish)
(...)
They are going to do those elementals
But the elemental that the Arabians use are for the 4 basic elements. But they have fancy names like fire erfetti

NELS1031 wrote:The rumors about an insect kingdom answers so many questions that I had about that insectoid head dangling from the belly of the new Ogre Kingdoms fire caster. Wonder if thats a "hiding in plain sight" preview of whats to come?

that was a fire bug its in the back story read it

Arabay and pirates sound good, though I'd be more excited by Nippon; I want to see these resculpted.

I think Araby would be evil... considering that they have invaded the Old World before and fought the Empire, etc. We could use some evil unmutated humans in the setting....

chaos0xomega wrote:I think Araby would be evil... considering that they have invaded the Old World before and fought the Empire, etc. We could use some evil unmutated humans in the setting....

I can hear the angry LotR fans now....

I agree with English Assasin, Nippon would be most exciting, Nippon and Albion IMO

They both have so many good ideas for an army, Samurai, Ashigaru, Shinobi, Temple Dogs, Oni and Serpent Dragons for Nippon and other Japanese things, while Albion has all the celtic tribesmen, Mastodon type monsters, Fenbeast groups, Druids, Lake Monsters, Fairies and lots of Giants

Though Araby and Kislev are great choices, Estalia and Tilea I'm not so excited about, the Fishmen should be good but I think Troll Forged Miniatures' Fishmen are gonna be hard to beat, while Insectoids, I'm unsure about and will reserve judgement on, but am not excited

Then again Albion and Nippon IMO are both worth their own full army, Cathay would have been a good choice here, and Sarsorta

This all sounds good and I like the emphasis of developing previous ideas into further expansion, but honestly there are armies that NEED and DESERVE more attention than this enterprise.

*cough Bretonnia/Wood Elves *cough

Harry wrote:Come to that is their a hint of what "ithilids look like with dark elf corsairs banner and the mask on the special character released at the same time. All very Ithilid like.

Maybe these Ithilids are the race hinted at in the Dark Elf fluff i.e. the "needled fanged creatures" that attack the DE ships.

Those are Fimir, I believe.

But the fimir live in swamps, not the sea. (Not exactly) Freshwater=/=Salt water.

NELS1031 wrote:The rumors about an insect kingdom answers so many questions that I had about that insectoid head dangling from the belly of the new Ogre Kingdoms fire caster. Wonder if thats a "hiding in plain sight" preview of whats to come?

I thought that too when I first saw it, but it's a Goblin Riding Spider head and foot claw. Check it out for yourself, almost exactly the same shape and size.

Dysartes wrote:

Rabid Ferret wrote:On the side-note of IG.

Yeah! Bring on the Vitrian Dragoons, The Royal Volpone 50th "Bluebloods", New plastic Tanith, Hyrkan 8th, Savlar Chem Dogs etc. It would be great to see more plastic kits than the Cadians and Catachans.

I suspect that notprop meant that new WHFB human kits could be mixed with existing IG components to make new regiments, Mr Ferret, not that new IG kits were on the way.

Oh I know what was meant. Doesn't hurt to dream though.

It would be nice to see some pirates, and Dogs o' War
I want mercenaries!!
Long Drong's Slayers and Menghil Manhide's Manflayers

ghost21 wrote:Actually the contingents may be released a little sooner than the actual book , WD will become the mag it used to be.
The first is probably Kislev. It is easier to do as most of the figures are already done.
They will rerelease the old in finecast. There is a cool ice wizard , and a unit of aquebusiers...(oops)...

I miss Menghil Manhide... I bought the whole unit. Boy did THAT add some punch to my VC army...

I never really warmed up to the addition of Lizard Men as a WHF army. Throwing an insectoid army or contingent into the mix, when there are a couple army books that haven't been updated in much too long, would be a bad thing. Once GW shows that it can keep it's current armies current, then it would be great to add armies, but until that happens, I wish they'd focus on what they already have.

I would love to see a DOW style army book. Bring back the Kislev Cossacks and the Nippon Samurai.

To those complaining about the addition of new fluff/ideas/craziness, I say PAH!

Yes I'm sad that my Wood Elves are hideously ineffective on rge tabletop, but the model range is still quite beautiful. I'm happy to wait a while for a new army book (they need to get it right - we'll be stuck with it a looong time).

Meanwhile, funky new Arabian nights style models and icky bugmen will keep me entertained
SIMBAD FTW!

Maybe they want to play off Dreadfleet? That would be the logical thing to do...

Leggy wrote:To those complaining about the addition of new fluff/ideas/craziness, I say PAH!
Meanwhile, funky new Arabian nights style models and icky bugmen will keep me entertained
SIMBAD FTW!

Thats the whole idea...new. They are looking to get some broad range excitement. Updating Empire and WE is only gonna excite those players...throwing i some merc type stuff will appeal to the majority of players regardless of preferred army. Hell, I dot even play fantasy and Im interested to see what the do. Particularly the insectiods...something nice and fresh will be great.

Heh. Dreadfleet's not popular enough. Thus GW decides to push WHFB army lists connected with Dreadfleet to try to build some enthusiasm and recoup their investment.

And to hell with Wood Elf and Bretonnian players.

Death By Monkeys wrote:Heh. Dreadfleet's not popular enough. Thus GW decides to push WHFB army lists connected with Dreadfleet to try to build some enthusiasm and recoup their investment.

And to hell with Wood Elf and Bretonnian players.

Because there's no chance they planned this before last week.

UltraPrime wrote:

Death By Monkeys wrote:Heh. Dreadfleet's not popular enough. Thus GW decides to push WHFB army lists connected with Dreadfleet to try to build some enthusiasm and recoup their investment.

And to hell with Wood Elf and Bretonnian players.

Because there's no chance they planned this before last week.

ofc they did. and react as spoiled children, and pull all sorts of evil tricks that's meant to be taken totally personal.... you know, like their customers expected all along

Some tidbits by ghost21:

From what I've been told FW got the green light on expanding Chaos Dwarfs.
Snakemen and 1 other ind related race will be handled by FW as will fimir.
The ice wizard.. or should I say witch (it's not Katerina) is on foot.

@ghost21 any chance of a hint about Sartosa Pirates?

Not in the contingent book but apparently they will get a list.
There are only going to be 2 special characters in the book as I understand, only 2.
Yeah, Tileans will get a list apparently in WD, just the book has 5 who are the main ones..

This is exciting, if they create a lot of different lists and make models for a lot of them it'll be great, lots of mini-armies

I'm excited to hear that CDs are gonna be expanded, and SNakemen sound great, wonder about the other Ind race, Catpeople? Apemen? Ind humans? Glad Fimir are being reaffirmed

Sarsortan pirate lists will be great, I really hope they get models, a unit of pirates being led by athe one in the collectors section would be beautiful

As for other lists and possibly models with them, I really hope Albion and Nippon get lists, there are so many ideas that could be reat for contingents

Albion
Nippon
Cathay
Ind
Marienburg
Halflings
Sarsorta
Zoats
Norsca
Sea Elves
Night Elves
Hobgoblins
Gnoblars
Amazons
Pygmies
Werewolves
Etc

What's the bet most of these models will be limted edition?

Im betting GW will try Cathay before they try Nippon.
Just like they created Tau for Japanese market now would be a good time to create Cathay to grab chinese market.

I'm not really into playing Fantasy, but those sound like a great opportunity to get back into Mordheim.

Nagashek wrote:Wait... an insect kingdom? For serious? So... another race that has no basis in fluff miraculously appearing? Inventing a book for humans and another race instead of releasing Woodelves?

Why does that seem so

Kislev/Ogres then WE

...familiar?

:ponders:

Havn't read Orcslayer have you? *cough*Tri-Kreen*cough*

Ktulhut wrote:What's the bet most of these models will be limted edition?

I'd say the odds are about 1 to 1000000 on this one. It's not SH/DF, there's no fixed cost of cardboard tiles or cloth mat, there are only plastic and finecast molds. Did GW ever limit a purely miniature release, other than a few Games Day models?

When ever GW does a new type of book there is always wild speculation about the next one to be done in the same format. A next book, like this, will never happen. GW has a long history of doing interesting releases with a lot of potential for future releases but then doing nothing... or if they do a follow up its never what people want or expect of a follow up.

I'm actually pretty excited for this book. It will be interesting to see what they give each of these mini-lists.

mrweaver wrote:My guess, assuming the 2 good/1 neutral/2 evil(ish) suggestion proves on target:
Good: Tilea and Kislev (although I would love halflings back)
Neutral: Araby
Evil: Sartosa/Pirates and the insect/aquatic fellows

If this is true... it strikes me that Tilea would have just as many pre-existing miniatures as Kislev that could be re-issued to support this. Araby has Al Muktars desert dogs and Sartosa has a few pieces as well. It will be interesting to see what GW does and how much will be reissued minis and how much will be new.

I think this contigent book sounds a lot like how I heard GW wanted to reformat dogs of war... which to me, gives credence to Tilea's presence in the book.

I'd see Sartosa as more of a neutral army, as they're sort of like mercenaries...

LunaHound wrote:Just like they created Tau for Japanese market

Every time someone repeats this completely unfounded rumor, a Sanguinary Guard loses its wings and gets thrown in a vat of Tervigon afterbirth.

Cathay would be better because unlike Nippon, GW has made some effort to actually develop what Cathay is in the Warhammer world. And because while there are a few different sources for samurai and samurai-inspired fantasy miniatures, I don't know of any good sources of Chinese-inspired fantasy figures. It would be a way to make GW unique.

The notion that a fantasy/sci-fi miniature game would not be marketed well to people in Asia unless they superficially resembled people or things from those Asian countries is a bit of an insult to the creative abilities of Asian people. And I would hope someone with that much anime in your profile wouldn't insult Asian people like that.

OT, I'm not sure that adding contingents really is enough to drag me back into the game. More modeling options is always a good thing, and maybe this would be a good use for Warhammer Forge, but I'm skeptical. In the end I expect we'll be getting expensive regiments that don't really change the game a whole lot. And really, they shouldn't change the game a whole lot, because if they did they would unbalance the game, and then everyone would HAVE to take them just to keep up. To compare to another, better strategy game: in Rome: Total War I really avoid using mercenaries except for two occasions. Cretan archers (because they're usually so much better than regular archers) and Basternae (because they look so badass). I'd rather GW went the Basternae route than the Cretan route, but in the end I expect these contingents to have the same impact as mercenaries do in R:TW- not much.

ghost21 wrote:I've seen the Tileans just get generics like duelists, pikemen & crossbows, heavy cav, poisoner wizard (has special poison lore)
Oh, there won't be an elephant for Araby that I've seen.
However camel Janissary's.... you better believe it.
Perhaps I should clarify, long barreled gunpowder cavalry.

We already have lizard-men, beast-men, rat-men and now insect-men? It seems we need more humans instead...

You won't like the other race then...

Vampirate of Sartosa wrote:I'd see Sartosa as more of a neutral army, as they're sort of like mercenaries...

With the exception of Kislev and the one we know nothing about... they all have a mercenary tradition. Alignment probably just speaks to which factions have access or the degree of access.

Kroothawk wrote:

ghost21 wrote:I've seen the Tileans just get generics like duelists, pikemen & crossbows, heavy cav, poisoner wizard (has special poison lore)

I'm curious if the tileans are new models or just reissued Dogs of War models... probably some of both but it'll be interesting to see what happens with what.

I hope the Tileans are reissued DoW models, they were gorgeous in my eyes, and it seems like something GW would do, especially with their reissuing of old sculpts and models

I can see most of their Kislev and Tilean ranges returning, as well as those old Araby DoW models and a a Citidel Finecast version of the Sarsorta models you can buy now

No Elephant seems like a wasted opportunity. Especially considering the way Warhammer Fantasy has evolved in the last 2 years.

Elephants are always unlucky, unless you go for a mumakil or chaos mammoth there aren't any huge elephant models around to use

Maybe a converted Mumakil on an Arachnarok base could be converted to join the army

Anung Un Rama wrote:No Elephant seems like a wasted opportunity. Especially considering the way Warhammer Fantasy has evolved in the last 2 years.

Large plastic kit for a small release? Not likely, unless every army could take one, which might have been even more ridiculous than the Giant being a sort of a Dogs of War unit the last time around.

augustus5 wrote:I never really warmed up to the addition of Lizard Men as a WHF army. Throwing an insectoid army or contingent into the mix, when there are a couple army books that haven't been updated in much too long, would be a bad thing. Once GW shows that it can keep it's current armies current, then it would be great to add armies, but until that happens, I wish they'd focus on what they already have.

Slann were in the original books as an army, so the Lizardmen were not really an addition just an expansion on the original concept. Ogre Kingdoms was an addition which worked out alright I guess.


I dunno about bug men but I would love a return of DOW and Kislev. Araby would be a welcome addition as well. Personally I would want to see Cathy, Nippon and Ind but that will never happen.

Dice Monkey wrote:

augustus5 wrote:I never really warmed up to the addition of Lizard Men as a WHF army. Throwing an insectoid army or contingent into the mix, when there are a couple army books that haven't been updated in much too long, would be a bad thing. Once GW shows that it can keep it's current armies current, then it would be great to add armies, but until that happens, I wish they'd focus on what they already have.

Slann were in the original books as an army, so the Lizardmen were not really an addition just an expansion on the original concept. Ogre Kingdoms was an addition which worked out alright I guess.


I dunno about bug men but I would love a return of DOW and Kislev. Araby would be a welcome addition as well. Personally I would want to see Cathy, Nippon and Ind but that will never happen.

At DM: yeah, I always wanted to do the old Slann army, but never got around to it until the models dissappeared. I liked the sort of aztec/inca feel to them. I've still got the old Warhammer Armies book. A lot of the stuff in this new book remind me of the old Allied continents you could take. Ogres were in there as mercenaries, so they have some claim to being an original army. Vastly expanded now. Very similar to what FW is doing with the Chaos Dwarfs. What I'd love to see is maybe a look at doing the Norse, and Norse Dwarf Berzerkers.)

At A5 - It's never really been a case of keeping all the armies current. In fact, they used to state they didn't intend to make all the models they published rules for, but put in extra rules in case modelers wanted to make or convert those units. GW is never going to quit making new stuff to go back and fill in old army lists. It's easier to go forward and forward put the work into new models in new books. The ogre release was great with a full contingent of models right from the start. I expect the newer armies that come out will see similar full lines of models on release, or shortly after.

Dice Monkey wrote:Personally I would want to see Cathy, Nippon and Ind but that will never happen.

I wouldn't say that, until recently people thought Dogs of War would never return, Araby , Kislev and Tilea would never get their own forces and there would be no Insectmen or Fishmen, I don't think Cathay, Nippon and Ind are ruled out, especilally with the amount of people who want all three

I agree that Insect Kingdom sounds really daft, but the rumors of Illithids in the ocean aren't much better. So, we might be seeing two new societies coming up out of nowhere, along with those mentioned (if scattered) in Storms of Magic?

Yes, not new Army Books for 'em, but I think GW had a bit too much fun making the mercenaries for the Dark Eldar codex, and are now going to town for WHFB.

I would really love for Kislev and Halflings to make a return so I can field an Empire army like they used to be.

A new Ice Queen model, anyone?

Kislev and Araby could very easily tempt me into buying fantasy miniatures even if I never want to play the game, love the look of the old kislev, and Araby could easily be awesome.

Minsc wrote:I agree that Insect Kingdom sounds really daft, but the rumors of Illithids in the ocean aren't much better. So, we might be seeing two new societies coming up out of nowhere, along with those mentioned (if scattered) in Storms of Magic

Fishmen and underground race have been hinted at in Dark Elf fluff with the underground sea. They also had the Bug who controlled zombie orcs and dwarves in a really bad Gotrek and Felix book. I still would like them to flesh out races with a l;longer standing like Cathay (temple dogs were awesome basically juggernauts) and Nippon along with Kislev and Araby.

Out of curiosity, why would people assume that Araby would get an elephant? Elephants are grassland/jungle type critters, and were never, to my knowledge, used by the real world desert dwellers that araby is based on... it seems there is a fundamental confusion here between Araby and Ind and their respective real world basis for interpretations.

chaos0xomega wrote:Out of curiosity, why would people assume that Araby would get an elephant? Elephants are grassland/jungle type critters, and were never, to my knowledge, used by the real world desert dwellers that araby is based on... it seems there is a fundamental confusion here between Araby and Ind and their respective real world basis for interpretations.

When I think Araby, I think 1001 Nights, Aladdin, that kinda stuff. And they have elephants.

His Master's Voice wrote:

Ktulhut wrote:What's the bet most of these models will be limted edition?

I'd say the odds are about 1 to 1000000 on this one. It's not SH/DF, there's no fixed cost of cardboard tiles or cloth mat, there are only plastic and finecast molds. Did GW ever limit a purely miniature release, other than a few Games Day models?

When they release campaign books, they generally sell the figures for about a year before pulling them. Remember mangil manhides elves? Or lord nurglitch?

Ktulhut wrote:

His Master's Voice wrote:

Ktulhut wrote:What's the bet most of these models will be limted edition?

I'd say the odds are about 1 to 1000000 on this one. It's not SH/DF, there's no fixed cost of cardboard tiles or cloth mat, there are only plastic and finecast molds. Did GW ever limit a purely miniature release, other than a few Games Day models?

When they release campaign books, they generally sell the figures for about a year before pulling them. Remember mangil manhides elves?

You mean Mengil's Manhide Manflayers, which are still sold?

Thanks for reminding me though. I need to get another box of them, they're fantastic and I want to ensure that I don't miss out on a full unit "just in case" they ever do get pulled.

Or lord nurglitch?

He was pulled? Because he looks like he's still on there, just as a Direct only model like most metals are.

Edit was to fix the link in Mengil's page, because I was silly and linked to the image rather than the page.

Minsc wrote:I agree that Insect Kingdom sounds really daft, but the rumors of Illithids in the ocean aren't much better. So, we might be seeing two new societies coming up out of nowhere, along with those mentioned (if scattered) in Storms of Magic?

Fishmen have been mentioned and hinted as attacking Dark Elf ships before while there were Insectmen said to live near the great maw I do believe, also what new races were in Storms of Magic

All in all we've seen very few of the different races and cultures in the warhammer world

chaos0xomega wrote:Out of curiosity, why would people assume that Araby would get an elephant? Elephants are grassland/jungle type critters, and were never, to my knowledge, used by the real world desert dwellers that araby is based on... it seems there is a fundamental confusion here between Araby and Ind and their respective real world basis for interpretations.

Araby has elephants in warmaster and nearly all mentions of elephants are involved with Araby in some way

I thought most Fishmen mentioned were Aquatic Lizardmen, not Fishy Fishmen ALA Deep Ones.

Guess it'd make sense to make some content for such after Dread Fleets, though. Odds of there being Mer-folk who can ally with armies that're really slow / crummy on land, but in water are terrifying?

Kanluwen wrote:

Ktulhut wrote:

His Master's Voice wrote:

Ktulhut wrote:What's the bet most of these models will be limted edition?

I'd say the odds are about 1 to 1000000 on this one. It's not SH/DF, there's no fixed cost of cardboard tiles or cloth mat, there are only plastic and finecast molds. Did GW ever limit a purely miniature release, other than a few Games Day models?

When they release campaign books, they generally sell the figures for about a year before pulling them. Remember mangil manhides elves?

You mean Mengil's Manhide Manflayers, which are still sold?

Thanks for reminding me though. I need to get another box of them, they're fantastic and I want to ensure that I don't miss out on a full unit "just in case" they ever do get pulled.

Or lord nurglitch?

He was pulled? Because he looks like he's still on there, just as a Direct only model like most metals are.

Edit was to fix the link in Mengil's page, because I was silly and linked to the image rather than the page.

Oh, look at that. I hardly bother with the GW site any more but from the looks of things, you can get a fair few models that for a while, at least in australasia, were unavailable.

Murdock129 wrote:

chaos0xomega wrote:Out of curiosity, why would people assume that Araby would get an elephant? Elephants are grassland/jungle type critters, and were never, to my knowledge, used by the real world desert dwellers that araby is based on... it seems there is a fundamental confusion here between Araby and Ind and their respective real world basis for interpretations.

Araby has elephants in warmaster and nearly all mentions of elephants are involved with Araby in some way

Yup, Araby is pretty well fleshed out already because of Warmaster

I'm ok with anything they do that expands the lore into Araby and Sartosa.

I'll also be happy for the people that were left hanging with their Kislev and DOW stuff.

Ktulhut wrote:Oh, look at that. I hardly bother with the GW site any more but from the looks of things, you can get a fair few models that for a while, at least in australasia, were unavailable.

They do add old models to the site on an irregular basis without really announcing it (occasionally they appear in the Advance Order section, some times they just appear in the Collectors/Bitz section).

kenshin620 wrote:

Murdock129 wrote:

chaos0xomega wrote:Out of curiosity, why would people assume that Araby would get an elephant? Elephants are grassland/jungle type critters, and were never, to my knowledge, used by the real world desert dwellers that araby is based on... it seems there is a fundamental confusion here between Araby and Ind and their respective real world basis for interpretations.

Araby has elephants in warmaster and nearly all mentions of elephants are involved with Araby in some way

Yup, Araby is pretty well fleshed out already because of Warmaster

I think Elephants of this size are outside the scope of what GW's trying to accomplish with this book. These are "Contingents" not 5 army books in one. If araby were being released as an independent army I agree Elephants should be in there, but with in the context of these Contingents being smaller formations that are available to multiple armies, I think there would be severe balancing issues concerned. Its unclear how many of the models are going to be new and how much are rereleases for Tilea and Kislev... but implication is that they have alot of pre-existing models which is why they're in this... GW maybe saving its resources for Araby and the other two, but even still I doubt they'd put such a disproportionate emphasis on one by producing such a large kit as an Araby war elephant.

Besides Suleiman le Saracen, Midas the Mean, and Al Muktar's desert dogs have their been any other representation of Araby in WFB?

Oh well I wasnt aquatically saying they should make them, just pointing out that they do have elephants. I do doubt elephants would be made

His Master's Voice wrote:

Ktulhut wrote:What's the bet most of these models will be limted edition?

I'd say the odds are about 1 to 1000000 on this one. It's not SH/DF, there's no fixed cost of cardboard tiles or cloth mat, there are only plastic and finecast molds. Did GW ever limit a purely miniature release, other than a few Games Day models?

They did do a few limited edition models that were sold in batallions or army boxes. The Beastmen Standard Bearer is an example, or the special limited edition Lictor with the Tyranid box.

kenshin620 wrote:Oh well I wasnt aquatically saying they should make them, just pointing out that they do have elephants. I do doubt elephants would be made

Just adding to that block of conversation and not targeted at anyone in particular.

streamdragon wrote:

His Master's Voice wrote:

Ktulhut wrote:What's the bet most of these models will be limted edition?

I'd say the odds are about 1 to 1000000 on this one. It's not SH/DF, there's no fixed cost of cardboard tiles or cloth mat, there are only plastic and finecast molds. Did GW ever limit a purely miniature release, other than a few Games Day models?

They did do a few limited edition models that were sold in batallions or army boxes. The Beastmen Standard Bearer is an example, or the special limited edition Lictor with the Tyranid box.

My IG army consists of 2 boxes of the Praetorian Guardsmen boxes from 1997. You can't find them anymore other than on eBay now. They go for way more than I would like to spend...

On the subject of elephants, really I think about the biggest model we'll be getting from these contingents is a recast of that Tsar on a bear most likely, I could be wrong but that's about the biggest I can imagine being released

I could see some form of Elemental thing for Cathay / Araby that also is used alongside Storms of Magic. Otherwise, the "big" critters would be part of the unknown Sea Faction / Insect Faction.

Murdock129 wrote:I think about the biggest model we'll be getting from these contingents is a recast of that Tsar on a bear...

Minsc wrote:I could see some form of Elemental thing

I imagine both of those would be about the same size and that Murdock129 is right, they'd probably be the biggest models we'll see. Tilea could have its galloper guns... and the other two we know nothing about would have something new. Insect-men... well I'd guess a big insect... sartosan being pirates maybe a ship's cannon or some big undead thing, ogre zombie/ghoul.

From Ghost21

the araby have 2 cav 2 inf, 1 "ogre sized" 1 character

other contingents have about the same number of stuff... if there expanded they will get lots of stuff, Ive seen some bizarre concepts and i wish i could mention them all

im most excited by araby because of the figures are a real wow not to say im not fond of the insect riders or the ice wizard... or the estalian conquistadors but the arabyian stuff steals the show

More tidbits:

ghost21 wrote:

Gabacho Mk.II wrote:What if they look something like this?
http://www.warseer.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=120003&d=1318433129

sort of... if you like yuan ti then yes.

loveless wrote:Well, I don't know about Sorcerers (they could always buy the magic item, though), but there's a flying carpet unit in Warmaster. http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat490071a&prodId=prod1130250

I think that's a given
The araby have 2 cav 2 inf, 1 "ogre sized" 1 character
Other contingents have about the same number of stuff... if they are expanded they will get lots of stuff, I've seen some bizarre concepts and I wish I could mention them all.
I'm most excited by araby because of the figures are a real wow not to say I'm not fond of the insect riders or the ice wizard... or the estalian conquistadors, but the arabyian stuff steals the show.

Minsc wrote:I could see some form of Elemental thing

I think that may be the province of Forge World, they just released a Lore of Beasts (or Life, I forget?) one and one of the special rules it has is written in a way that clearly shows they plan more.

Baragash wrote:

Minsc wrote:I could see some form of Elemental thing

I think that may be the province of Forge World, they just released a Lore of Beasts (or Life, I forget?) one and one of the special rules it has is written in a way that clearly shows they plan more.

But that does not rule out the possibility of MI sized elementals of the 4 classic varieties. Or even MC sized elementals considering the FWD incarnations are exalted demon sized.

More info by ghost21:

I thought about war altar horses and finecast horses made for absent electors as plasticised versions for altar and knights - 2 types are more then ok

well the altar will have its own horses....

the female guards aren't those mentioned there , called something along the lines of harem guards

as i said there will be 2 characters as far as i know she wont be I've heard its "universal characters"

one last thing the allies rule has 3 different ways of aligning your force with another theres neutral allies, friendly and unfriendly (unfriendly represents, people forcing them to fight or they don't like each other but its for the best) there will be rules to use say (its just an example) chaos in empire but theres significant drawbacks to this

they also will be balanced for about 750 points to use by themselves, any more they lack any heavy hitters

You misunderstood. If you go over the 750 points (or proportional to the army size?) you won't be able to take the special stuff.
You can take a large contingent but then you'll have to settle for the ordinary units.
I don't think so. If you look at it, the 'whatever you want IF below 750 pts' is surprisingly elegant.

thats how i meant it

you can allign 2 or all of them together to create a rag tag army or infernal alliance (n yes that's the exact wording)

however some really hate each other and so have some drawbacks

theres only 1 character who can be an over general (n remove the bad effects) and hes estallian

Ah. Any info on whether there's any wording on saying that the lists can be used stand-alone? I have an all-Kislev army, and can see people going into whinemode if I try to deploy them as a standard army.

they can, but theres no cannons (save for pirates) and they lack a lot of options , only hero characters but if you want to, you can, they just have restrictions as noted above

So is Sartosa the fifth contingent then? It wouldn't surprise me seeing as we've just got Dreadfleet and the interveiw with Phil Kelly and John Blanche in this month's WD did mention that the game started as "Mordheim in Sartosa".

its not no, but the pirate contingent i heard would be wd only

Do you think there will be any difference between tilean and estalian contingents, or will they share the same units?

the only unit they share is pike and tillen can only have pike units where as estalia have a pike / crossbow combined unit

Oh, similar to Pirazzo's Lost Legion? Front rank crossbows and pikes behind?

I hope so I always wanted to field those guys.

well you will be able too, kinda

75hastings69 is sceptical:

I'll also throw out there that I'm not confirming the contingents rumour either. Make of that statement what you will.
(...)
I could pretty much (and I'm not bragging here) post a list of all completed wfb models and those currently being done, and neither werewolves or any of the contingents stuff listed would make that list.

Some models like Kislev could be just Finecast recasts, others like the insects would have to be totally new.

Kroothawk wrote:75hastings69 is sceptical:

I'll also throw out there that I'm not confirming the contingents rumour either. Make of that statement what you will.
(...)
I could pretty much (and I'm not bragging here) post a list of all completed wfb models and those currently being done, and neither werewolves or any of the contingents stuff listed would make that list.

Some models like Kislev could be just Finecast recasts, others like the insects would have to be totally new.

I'll take Hastings over Ghost. Was kind of sceptical myself to be honest

Flashman wrote:

Kroothawk wrote:75hastings69 is sceptical:

I'll also throw out there that I'm not confirming the contingents rumour either. Make of that statement what you will.
(...)
I could pretty much (and I'm not bragging here) post a list of all completed wfb models and those currently being done, and neither werewolves or any of the contingents stuff listed would make that list.

Some models like Kislev could be just Finecast recasts, others like the insects would have to be totally new.

I'll take Hastings over Ghost. Was kind of sceptical myself to be honest

Warhammer Fantasy's version of "Summer of Fliers"?

kenshin620 wrote:

Flashman wrote:

Kroothawk wrote:75hastings69 is sceptical:

I'll also throw out there that I'm not confirming the contingents rumour either. Make of that statement what you will.
(...)
I could pretty much (and I'm not bragging here) post a list of all completed wfb models and those currently being done, and neither werewolves or any of the contingents stuff listed would make that list.

Some models like Kislev could be just Finecast recasts, others like the insects would have to be totally new.

I'll take Hastings over Ghost. Was kind of sceptical myself to be honest

Warhammer Fantasy's version of "Summer of Fliers"?

Indeed, though we did actually get the Summer of Fliers... it's just that Manticores, Chimeras, Black Dragons & Cockatrices weren't the fliers people had in mind

ghost21 has a mixed record for his rumours.
He predicted Dreadfleet, but he also predicted a Sororitas Codex this year (providing lots of details), Rhinox riders, gnoblar on slave giant and no Wracks before 2012. The rest like 6th edition starter and Chaos Codex are too far off to tell.

NatTreehouse wrote:Has anyone *apart* from ghost21 confirmed this rumour?
There's nothing about this coming through my sources.
And according to folks in the know, unless Alan Merrit dies another attempt at Dogs of War/Allies/Contingents is about as likely as a Miley Cyrus Codex for 40K.
Also Finecast is for characters. Plastic is for troops. The idea that GW would produce four or five different sets of finecast troops for five different armies is just a non-starter. As is the idea that they would make plastic Araby, insectmen or Kislevs.
And January is for Vampires (I got told Feb, but dates ain't my strongpoint).

I ain't buying this Kool-Aid.

75hastings69 wrote:It could be the case that this has been kept very quiet and why no-one but ghost21 has heard of them, but I certainly haven't.

The poster above that mentioned Alan Merritt couldn't be more spot on.

rodmillard wrote:Finecast is for models they don't expect to sell enough of to justify a plastic sprue. Some characters are plastic (because they expect them to sell in bulk) and some units are finecast (because they don't, or were originally only available in metal and they need to keep them available in store) - that is the only "pattern."

Also consider that many of the rumoured releases already exist as masters for metal, making the finecast option even less of a risk for GW. Kislev had quite a wide range in metal - they would just need new mounts. There are already metal sculpts for Tilean and Estalian pikemen, crossbowmen, skirmishers, heavy cavalry, and the Galloper Gun (all still available in the collectors range). The ONLY Araby unit ever released for WFB was DOW light cavalry (just add new camel sculpts).

I could very easily see GW re-releasing these models in finecast accompanied by contingent lists in WD to see if there is a market for contingents - assuming the experiment succeeds, then they can tweak the rules, add new sculpts (either in plastic or finecast) and Warhammer: The Grand Alliance can be the next Storm of Magic.

I'm not saying Ghost is wrong - what he suggests could very easily be GW's long term plan for the contingents, but in the mean time by keeping the contingents as WD "bonus" lists and rereleasing the existing metal sculpts for Kislev and Tilea/Estalia in finecast first they still have a get-out-of-jail-free card if it doesn't sell.

Flashman wrote:
Indeed, though we did actually get the Summer of Fliers... it's just that Manticores, Chimeras, Black Dragons & Cockatrices weren't the fliers people had in mind

Then perhaps we'll get a 40k Mercenary book?

Out of interest, can anyone elaborate on the point that Alan Merrit(t) seems to be the blocking factor on the return of the Dogs of War? Who is he, and where did he gain this veto from?

kenshin620 wrote:
Then perhaps we'll get a 40k Mercenary book?

Weren't you paying attention? It's practically imminent that we're going to get a...

NatTreehouse wrote:...Miley Cyrus Codex for 40K.

Alan Merrett

As one of Games Workshop's longest serving employees, Alan Merrett has held many important posts over the years - from being in charge of miniatures design, the production studio, the Golden Demon awards and the Black Library - to his current position overseeing the development of Games Workshop's wealth of intellectual proprety. Underpinning all these key roles has been his complete enthusiasm for the model soldier - an enthusiasm which has resulted in Alan being one of the driving forces behind Games Workshop's imagery.

http://www.blacklibrary.com/Authors/Alan-Merrett.html

For some reason, I feel there is cause to consider any rumours that suggest the introduction of Fishmen to the Warhammer world with extreme prejudice.

harry's comment:

Let me just say this.

When I heard boats coming ghost was the first person to post anything about it
He didn't know details but he knew about it. He had seen? heard? stuff at a very early stage in the games development.
This was before hastings knew about it.

Nattreehouse may only have 7 posts but his first posts were to bring us the detail of what Dread Fleet was about. He was the first person to nail this before I knew what it was all about. Check back on his posts.
However he did not start to post until very close to release.
Could be he only has a short window ... could be he is a loyal GW fan. (Theres a lot of this about. )

Hastings is right 99.9% of the time. He is the Jedi master of rumours. He is rumour Yoda. I trust his posts above all others.
When he says something is happening ... it almost always happens.
When he says something isn't happening ... it almost never does.

Not sure where that leaves us.

Is it possible that this is a blind spot for hastings Natreehouse and myself? .... YES
Is it possible ghost has seen/heard about this at such an early stage of development than none of the rest of us know anything about it? .... YES!

(Although the level of detail in ghosts posts has started to worry me. Normally with rumours ... if one person knows this much detail somebody else knows something. )

Is it coming any time soon? .... NOT A CHANCE!

Am I still excited at the possibilities ..... YOU BET YA!

Could well be another summer release like SoM, which would make sense (sort of a border prince setting). I feel more of a Warhammer Forge release to be fair mind.

Minor update, we have to wait for more:

Harry wrote:I just heard a solid bit of info that backs up some of what the ghost man has been saying.
(...)
I just want to get some conformation for it first .... as it is something I hadn't imagined seeing again.

Hastings need to spill it about all those completed models he knows about

Well...I hope the rumours are true! As I am having a hard time fighting DOW at the moment...relying on waves of duelists and bombardment by halflings is not a good winning tactic...and the costs of the RR on ebay is prohibitive!

Would be awesome, and the SOM going back to more classic times it could well be...