Univeral upgrades by Deadshot
Exterminatus- This may be used like an Orbital Bombardment.
+75pts Fusion Torpedo Str 10/ AP 1/ 7" blast, rolls Str 10+3D6 vs Vehicles. 4D6 under Central Hole.
+100pts Virus Bomb Str 8/ AP 2/ 5" blast
Models under the Template must pass a T test at -1 T, and if they fail they must count their Sv as - for the game. Vehicles reduce their AV by 1 for each roll of 4+ on 6D6. They are also poisoned 3+, but may reroll all failed.
Wargear Armour of Horus, Power Maul, Talon of Horus
Armour of Horus- Gives Horus a 2+ armour save
Power maul, Talon of Horus- The power maul and talon of Horus work as one weapon that does the following.
All attacks from Horus count as str 10, roll 2d6 for armour penetration, ignore armour saves, re roll failed rolls to wound and all successful invulnerable saves made must be re rolled.
Horus also strikes with d6 extra attacks but if he rolls a 1 for these attacks something has gone wrong and he fights without any extra attacks.
Special rules Mark of Chaos Ascendant, Chosen of the Gods, Primarch, Inspiring presence, Psychic blast, Warp rift, fearless
Mark of Chaos Ascendant- Horus has resisted becoming a pawn of any individual god and instead has the blessings from all four. This rule confers Horus all the marks of the gods
which have already been put in his stat line.
*Please note that Horus's 3++ invulnerable is his modified save
Chosen of the gods- Horus has the divine protection from all four gods and so has a 3++ invulnerable save, the warptime psychic power
and the following special rules: feel no pain, fleet
Also any attack that would remove Horus immediately instead only takes d6 wounds of him.
Primarch- Confers Horus the furious charge, Independent Character, acute senses and eternal warrior special rules.
Inspiring presence- All friendly units within 12 inches of a primarch strike with an extra attack in close combat and when the primarch is on his last wound all units with a model within 12 inches gain the furious charge special rule. Friendly Infantry units in the same combat as the primarch now also count as a bodyguard.
Psychic Blast- Horus was capable of delivering a crippling psychic blast to an unfortunate enemy. This is a psychic shooting attack with the following profile.
Range/ 24''/ Str/ 10/ Ap/ 1/ Special/ inflicts d6 +d3 hits
Warp rift- Due to the fact that Horus can hold open powerful warp rifts any daemon unit that deep strikes does not scatter
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Corax, Primarch of the Raven Guard --- Pts 650 By Deadshot/OmegaStriker
The Raven's Talons- These are a pair of master crafted Lightning Claws with the Rending rule. They grant an additional 1 strength. Once per game, Corax may energize his claws, making them Str 9 AP 1 for a turn. Once per each player turn, one roll to hit and one roll to wound may be re-rolled.
Armor of Deliverance - This suit of artificer armor grants a 2+ armor save and a 3+ invulnerable save. Also, Corax's vital signs are controlled and Once per each player turn, one armor save and one invulnerable save may be re-rolled.
Wings of Deliverance - This areo-tech jump harness grants Corax the Lord of Deliverance special rule. If Corax is alone, he may move and assault 12 inches each. When deepstriking, alone or attached to a squad, ignore the scatter results and place the models as if an accurate result was rolled.
Special Rules: And They Shall Know No Fear, Independent Character, Eternal Warrior, Hit and Run, Furious Charge, Primarch.
The Lord of Deliverance - All infantry gain the Fleet special rule. All Jump Infantry gain the Fleet special rule, and may roll +1d6 and add that to their fleet rolls, and move the extra distance.
Tactical Genius - Reserves are extremely precise under Corax's command. Instead of rolling for reserves, the player may choose what arrives on each turn, what method it arrives with, and where it arrives. In addition, roll all deep strike rolls twice and choose the result you desire.
Primarch - When Corax is on the field, all Raven Guard units capable of leadership rolls may use his leadership for any leadership tests. When Corax is slain, remove him from the table and place an objective marker where he was. This marker is worth 3 objective points to the enemy but 1 to the Raven Guard.
Furthermore, when alone or attached to a jump infantry squad, and conducting a Death or Glory, may choose to move out of the path of the Tank and re-postion themselves within 12 inches of their original position, using deep strike rules as per Wings of Deliverance.
The Fist of Dorn- This is master crafted Thunderr Hamnmer that strikes at Str 10. It adds 1 to the damage chart.
Termanator Armour
Storm Shield
Iron Halo
Bolter
Special Ammo
Special Rules ATSKNF, Combat Tactics, Chapter Tactics( see Pedro Kantor), Bolster Defenses
Siege Master- Dorn, and his unit have the Tank Hunters USR. Any uniot in the army can roll an addittional D3 when penetrating armour, but not if they have Melta Weapons, Lance Weapons, Ordnance, or have rending qweapons that rend that turn.
"No remorse, No Pity, No Fear- Any Vanillla Marines gain the Counter Attack, Furious Charge and Preferred Enemy Special Rules, Black Templar gain up to 3 Extra vows. In addition, their faith in their liege is such that they may gain an additonal rules, rolled on a D6 below. Roll for each unit seperatelly. The effects last the battle.
1-Furious Charge
2-FNP 3-Relentless
4-Tank hunters
5-6++ save, or +1 to existing Invulnerable, after all other saves applied.
6-EW and roll again.
"Abhor the Witch, destroy the witch"- An army with Dorn may not have any psykers, other than Grey Knight Space Marines. Inquisitors, Mystics, and other, non Grey knight psykers may not be included. If an allied army includes a psyker, it will be tolerated, but if they suffer a perils of the Warp, or target an Imperial Fist/Black Templar unit with a powerr, or even scazttering blast markers, then Dorn will charge the enemy. Dorn and his unit will i9mmediately try and shoot and assault them. If this happens, Dorn and his unit can and must run after shooting, and gain fleet.
Moonfang- This is a power weapon that inflicts ID on a to wound roll of 6.
Moonfable- This bike gives Khan the ability to run in the shooting phase, as well as being fleet. Furthermore, he may always move 6" faster than normall when assaulting or moving.
Ie, he may move up to 18", but not turbo boosting. He may turbo boost up to 30", getting a 3++ cover. He may assault 12".
Artificer Armour
Iron Halo
Special rules ATSKNF, Combat Tactics, Chapter Tactics( see Kor'sarro Khan), Hit and Run, IC, EW, Acute Senses.
Lord of Hunters- The Great Khan is destined to be a hunter.
At the start of the game, pick one Named Character. If your opponent does not have one, an IC will do, or a UC if you must.
Khan always hits and wounds this model on 2+.
Drive By slashing- Unlike other units, Khan may move through other units. if he moves through an enemy, he may make D3 CC attacks, and his squad, 1 each, though they hit on 6+, against them, although they may not strike back. if he turbo boosted, he may only hit on 6+, whiole his squad may not attack. If he does so, he may not run or shoot, but may assault that unit.
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Primarch Perturabo(traitor)--- Pts 700 By Deadshot
Stormhammers- These are a pair of Thunder Hammers that's hits count as Ordnance.
Terminator Armour Servo Harness( see codex SM)
Special Rules Fearless, EW, MTC
Siege Master- Perturabo is a master of sige warfare. In an army that includes him, Lance and melta Weapons become TL, and Ordnance weapons roll 3D6 instead of 2 when penetrating vehicle armour and pick the highest. Furthermore, when playing planetstrike, his armies may make an additional D3 Firestorm attacks, even if they arer the defender, to represent powerful AA weapons. Perturabo and his squad have the Tank Hunters special rules.
Iron Skin- Perturabo's Iron hard skin gives him +1 T, +1 wound, and a 3++ save, though he becomes SNP and -1 Int. Bonuses and penaltiesd already included in the profile.
"Daemons, not gods"- In an army with Perturabo, you may not include any Summoned Daemons
Dark Crozius - This is a Crozius, which gives the bearer +d6 attack in CC Bolt Pistol
Artificer Armour
Frag and Krak Grenades
Special Rules combat tactics, atsknf
Chaos Protection - Lorgar gains a 3+ invulnerable save
Favor of the gods - Lorgar and any unit he is with benefit from the warptime psychic power, which always counts as being in effect without casting, and cannot be nullified.
Bearer of the Word - All units withing 18' inches of Lorgar benefit from the Furious Charge and Fearless rules, and +1 attack in close combat.
Body guard WsBs S T W I A LdSv Gal Vorbak 5 5 6 5 2 5 3 10 3+
Argel Tal 6 6 6 5 3 6 4 10 2+
Unit Type: Infantry
Unit Composition: 4 Gal Vorbak 1 Argel Tal,The Crimson Lord
Special Rules The Blessed Sons, Fearless, Feel No Pain
Daemons- The Gal Vorbek are Daemons and are treated as such. They have a 5++.
For all intents and purposes,the Gal Vorbak are treated as Possessed Chaos Space Marines.
The First Heretics- The Gal Vorbak may have two Possessed powers. If you get the same power, you may choose which one
The Crimson Lord(Argel Tal only)- Argel Tal may have 3 Possessed powers.These may be different to the others.Roll your three powers separately
Wargear: Either:
-Firesword- Power weapon, can make a shooting attack with the following profile:
Range: Template, S6 AP3, Assault 1
-Laeran Blade- Power weapon, inflicts Instant Death.
-Anatheme- Power weapon, always hits on a 2+, always wounds on a 2+.
Bolt Pistol. Artificier Armour. The Emperor's Aquila- confers a 4++ save.
Frag and Krak grenades.
Special Rules: IC ,EW ,ATSKNF ,Combat Tactics ,Furious Charge
Perfectionist- Can re-roll all failed to hit and to wound.
Phoenician- When a member of a unit that Fulgrim has joined takes a wound in combat, Fulgrim can make an attack after all other attacks (one for each wound taken by the unit)
Wargear The Raven's Talons- These are a pair of master crafted Lightning Claws with the Rending rule. Note that only one reroll to hit per turn is allowed
Bolt Pistol Artificer Armour- Frag Studded artificer armour ( counts as Artificer armour and Frag Grenades)
Raven Flight Pack- Basically a pair of ultra low density mechanical wings, these allow Corax to move as Jump Infanrty, but still embark on vehicles, counting as 2 models. if the vehicle can actually carry JI, eg, Stormravens, the he counts as one.
Special Rules ATSKNF ,IC ,EW ,Acute Senses ,Hit and Run ,Combat Tactics ,Chapter Tactics (see Captain Shrike) ,See, but Remain, Unseen
Flight of the Raven- Corax does not Scatter when deep striking. Further more, he may assault on the turn he does so, but only if he is alone. if he has joined a unit the back draft from ther JP, the phasing out of the Warp or whatever, else, leaves his squad disorientated and he is wrong footed to charge. Furthermore, when conducting a Death or Glory, he may do one of the following.
Strike against the Side(top) armour, to represent him flying up them slashing down.
If he fails to stop the tank, he may escape on a 5+. If successful, place him within 12" of his last position using the DS rules. if this situation he scatters 3D6", and may not move, run or Assault in his next turn.
The Song of Entropy and the Unbound Flame- These are a pair of MCTH.
The Spear of Vulkan The Gauntlet of the Forge Kesare's Mantle
Artificer Armour
Frag and Krak Grenades
The Eye of Vulkan- If Vulkan doesn't move, he can fire an Orbital Bombardment of Str D, AP 2, using the 10" template
The Obsidion Chariot.
The obsidian Chariot is a dedicated Transport for Vulkan and 1 unit that he joins. The Chariot has a trasnport capacity of 10+Vulkan.. It must start the game with Vulkan and up to one unit embarked, or empty, but it may not start the game with unit embarked if Vulkan isn't.
300pts
AV 14/14/14
BS 5
Special Rules
Assault Vehicle
Tempermental Machine Spirit.
If a unit is embarked, but Vulkan isn't, then it may become angry. Roll a D6 every movement phase. on a 1-2 nothing happens. on a 3-5 the passengers may not disembark and the vehicle immediatly fires a weapon at the nearest target, friendly or enemy, not including Vulkan and his unit. This does not follow the normal rules for shooting, and other unitsd may move as normal. Alternatively, the Vehicle may immdiately move 12+D6" straight forward, tank shocking and ramming all units in the way.On a 6, then the unit is burnt by the heat inside. The embarked unit takes 2D6Str 5, AP 4 hits.
Power of the Macine Spirit.
This may not be used if Tempermental Machine Spirit forces it to fire.
Magma's Child- The Obsidion Chariot only takes D6+Str when melta weapons firwe upon it. in additon, Lava and fire features are clear terrain to the Chariot, even if the wopuld normally be impassable.
Access Points
2 each side, 1 at front.
Wargear
2 Sponson Mounted Flamedrake Cannons
Range StrAP Tpye
Template 7 4 Heavy 1
OR
Range StrAp Type
Template 5 2 Assault 1 Melta
Hullmounted TL MultiMelta
Pintle Mounted Melta Gun or Flamer.
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Primarch Alpharius--- Pts 700 By Durza
Wargear Gladius-MC power weapon.
Bolt Pistol. Alpha Armour- Artificier armour which also makes him Unidentifiable when in a unit (cannot be targeted) and confers a 4++ save.
Frag+Krak grenades. Special Rules: IC, ATSKNF, Combat Tactics, EW.
I am Alpharius: When Alpharius dies, on a roll of 3+ an Alpha Legion sergeant anywhere on the board can be replaced with Alpharius on 3W. This can only be used once per battle.
According to plan: The player controlling Alpharius always chooses the location of the enemy's Deep Strikes.
Draw them out: Once in the battle, the player controlling Alpharius can force one unit in the opponent's army to assault a unit under the control of the Alpha Legion player. They must be able to get into combat with the target unit, and never gain any bonuses from assaulting because of this.
Alpha and Omega: For +500pts, Omegon can be taken too. He has the same wargear, stats and rules (and is treated as another Alpharius for the purposes of I am Alpharius), apart from the following:
-Stealth Armour: 2+Sv, improves Cover save by 2. Grants Unidentifiable.
-Doesn't have According to Plan or Draw them Out.
Lion'el Johnson, Dark Angels Primarch:---------------------- 750pts By BlapBlapBlap
WS 8 - BS 7 - S 6 - T 5(7) - W 5 - I 6 - A 5 - Ld 10 - Sv 2+/3++
Wargear:
Bolt Pistol, Frag and Krak Grenades
The Lion Sword: This is a Master-crafted Power Weapon that wounds on a 3+
Armour of Caliban: This grants a 2+ Armour save and a 3++ Invunerable save. It also adds 2 points onto his toughness.
The Lion Blade- This is a master Crafted Power Weapon that gives +1 str. if you roll a 6 to wound with this Plasma infused sword, the opponent must reduce his Armour Save by 1 untill the end off the following Player turn. However, if a 1 to wound is rolled, Lion must take a wound with no armour saves allowed, as the massive flux of Plasma discharges in his face.
Plasma Blaster- this is a plasma weapon with the following profile.
Range- 24 /Str- 7 /AP- 2 /Type- Assault 2, Gets Hot!
Artificer Armour The Hide of the Lion- Taken from the lion he killed on Caliban, the impenatrble hide gives him a 3++ save.
Special Rules
ATSKNF, IC, EW, Acute Senses, Furious Charge
Beast hunter- The Lion and any squad he has joined gain the Prefered Enemy (Beasts and Cavalry), USR.
The Lion and The Wolf- Such is the kinship between Leman Russ and The Lion, that you may include a single unit of Wolf Guard from Codex: SW in your army as an Elites choice. They may not split up to lead other units in this case. These Wolf Guard do not benefit from anything the DA have, such as Banners and Special Rules granting extra atacks, and vice versa. No DAIC may join the Wolf Guard unit, and they may embark on a DA vehicle."
Wargear Gore father, God tearer, Mantle of the world eaters
Gore Father- Angron's chain axe gore father confers the following. Gore father doubles angron's strength, counts as ap 1, rolls 2d6 for armour penetration and gives angron 2d6 extra attacks
God tearer- angron's custom storm bolter with the following profile.
Range- 24 /S- 5 /Ap- 4 /Special- assault 2
Mantle of the World Eaters- Angron's personal suit of armour gives him a 2+ save and furthermore any psychic power directed at angron friendly or enemy does not effect him.
Special Rules Primarch, blessings of the blood god, Inspiring Presence, Avatar of khorne, fearless
Primarch- Confers Angron the furious charge, fleet, Independent Character, acute senses and eternal warrior special rules.
Inspiring presence- All friendly units within 12 inches of a primarch strike with an extra attack in close combat and when the primarch is on his last wound all units with a model within 12 inches gain the furious charge special rule. Friendly Infantry units in the same combat as the primarch now also count as a bodyguard.
Avatar of Khorne- Angron can re roll all failed rolls to wound and always hits on a 2+. This rule also gives angron a 3++ invulnerable saving throw
Blessings of the blood god- Gives angron a 2++ save against force weapons and psychic shooting attacks
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Primarch Mortarion--- Pts By Black Templar
Wargear Manreaper, Lantern, Artificer Armour, Shroud of Barbarus
Manreaper- Fashioned back on Barbarus he carried a huge two handed archaic Scythe he called Manreaper: It counts as a Power Weapon. Mortarion gains +1 attack for every opponent he faces.
Lantern- Mortarion carried a rare hand crafted energy pistol of Shenlongi design: Counts as Master crafted Plasma Pistol which does not suffer from the “gets hot” special rule
Artificer Armour- Mortarion wears a full suit of uniquely crafted power armour coated with brass and bare steel: Counts as Artificer Armour giving a 2+ save.
Shroud of Barbarus- He wore a tattered flapping cloak at all times wrapped round his body and face which oftenconfuse his outline and distracted from his actual position making him hard to hit. Rumor within the Legion suggested it was the death shroud used to bury the very last Necromancer Mortarion killed on Barbarus. Counts as a 3+ invulnerable save
Special rules combat tactics, atsknf
Death Incarnate- The death like spectre of Mortarion advancing across the battlefield was enough to make even hardened veterans soil themselves in fear: Mortarion causes Fear and any unit wishing to assault him (and any unit he attached to) must pass a leadership test on 3D6 (discarding the lowest) otherwise they remain frozen to the spot.
Toxic Personality- About his person he also wears a string of globe-shaped brass censers which contain poisonous gases from his home world: Any unit assaulting Mortarion must reduce its WS by 1 (to a minimum of 1) this is cumulative each turn.
Independent character
Deathshroud(This rule replaces the Honor of the Primarch rule)- These are his personal bodyguard. They are marines who are listed as killed in action and then made to wear a mask for the rest of their lives so that only Mortarion may know their true identity. They may never be more than 49 paces away from Mortarion at any time: Must remain within 6" of Mortarion at all times (therefore acting as a single unit). However, if Mortarion is killed, they may move and function as Independent Characters. For game play purposes, treat them as Masters (per Codex: Space Marines HQ) with the fixed set of warger listed below, and unable to take retinues.
Also, due to their presence, Mortarion may not be targeted out separately (despite his size), they are immune to all psychology and benefit from +1T. Armed with Manreapers (Two-handed Power Weapon, bearer gains +D6 against multiple opponents OR a single attack against 1 opponent) and Assault Cannons, wearing Terminator Armour.
Relentlessly Forward- Mortarion was a great believer in the infantry army and trained his troops to advance on the enemy no matter what was thrown at them. Must always move towards the enemy in his movement phase (he must end his turn at least 1" closer to an enemy unit than he started it, though he does not have to move the full 6"))-though he does not have to charge in the Assault phase (should he choose not to). May never fall back-if a rule calls for this and it states no matter what-he will simply stand his ground.* If Mortarion has joined a unit containing heavy weapons they may still fire if they move 1” or less, if forced to move .*
Infantry Above All- Eschewing vehicles in preference of a steady advance on foot witling down the enemies numberswith a hail of Bolter fire is the way of the death Guard-so teaches Mortarion: May not take Rhinos or Razorbacks but Drop pods, Thunderhawks etc cost half points (rounding up).
Wargear Artificer Armour, Iron Halo, The Lantern, Man Reaper, Frag Grenades.
The Lantern - This is Mortarion's pistol, it has the following profile:
S- 8 /AP- 1 /RNG- 12" /
Manreaper - This is daemon weapon which increases the bearers strength by 2 and allows 2d6 armour penatration for vehicles. It also has a potent poison of nurgle that allows rerolls to wound.
Special Rules Independent Character, Feel No Pain, combat tactics, atsknf
Primarch - This special rule grants the Eternal Warrior, Fleet, Night Vision, and Preferred Enemy special rules.
Mark of Nurgle (included in profile)
Toxic Gas - Mortarion emits the toxic gases of his home planet, strengthened by nurgle to poison foes, at the end of each Chaos player turn, any enemy model within 6 inches of takes a wound on a 4+ with armour saves allowed. He also counts as being equipped with defensive grenades
Deathshrouds (Mortarion's Retinue)--- Pts 320
Infantry Unit Composition: 2 Deathshrouds
Profile: See Chaos Lord (C:CSM)
Mark Of Nurgle (See C:CSM)
Manreaper: (See Typhus, C:CSM), Artificer Armour
This is Mortarion at his "Chaos Lord" and "Plague Marine" Stages, before he is granted the gift of being a Daemon.
Wargear Iron Halo, Talons of Midnight, Corona Nox, Armor of Midnight, Jump Pack.
Talons of Midnight- These are a pair of Lightning Claws that grant Curze +1 attack and rending.
Armor of Midnight- This is a set of Artificer Armour, when a unit shoots at Curze they must use the night fighting rules, Curze and his squad also gain 5+ cover that is increased to 3+ while night fighting is in effect.
Corona Nox - The crown of the Night Haunter, which is possesed and gives him further protection, his invulnerable save is increased by 1, and he gains the Feel no Pain special rule.
Special Rules combat tactics, atsknf
Primarch - This special rule grants the Eternal Warrior, Fleet, Night Vision, Stubborn, Move Through Cover and Preferred Enemy special rules.
Scout
Lord of Night and Terror - any unit attempting to assault Curze must first make a leadership at -3 or have its weapon skill and intiative reduced by 2.
If night fighting rules are in effect then the leadership must be taken at -4.
Furious Charge
Dual Personality - Curze suffers from 2 personalities, at the beggining of the game roll a d6, and consult the following chart.
1 - Takes an automatic wound as his two selves battle with each other, then apply the result for 2
2 - has the Rage usr, may not join a unit, and counts as jump infantry as his anger surges through him
3,4 - works as normal and is balanced between the 2 personalities
5 - Curze gains +1 attacks as he contiues his crusade for justice
6 - Curze gains +1 to Weapon Skill, Intiative, and Attacks. He gains holy rage to cut down the enemies of the Emperor.
Night Lords Intimidation - All friendly Chaos Space Marine units gain furious charge, and cause a -1 to leadership when the enemy loses combat.
Cut Them Down - anytime Curze takes an intiative test to pursue, add +1 to his dice roll for intiative.
Wargear The Gaunlets of Ultramr- See Marneus Calgar (a pair of powerfist with an AP 2 Stormbolter)
The Sword of the Consuls-This is a master crafted Power weapon that is 2 handed
Shield of Macragge-This is a Storm Shield that grants a reroll if the 3++ is failed, but this is only passed on a 6+.
Bolter with Special Ammunition
Termiantor Armour with Built in Locator beacon.
Special Rules ATSKNF, Comabt Tactics, IC, EW, God of War
Orbital Strike- This works exactly like an Orbital bombardment, but is str D and AP 2.
Master Tactician- After all infiltarte and scout moves have been made, D3 units in the army may do one of the following
They may redeploy in their deployment zone, at least 12" away from any enemy.
They may make scout moves
They may be reserved and gain the outflank rule.
Grand Statagy- Select D3 Infantry, Jump Infanrty or Walker units. these units gain one of the following.
They may capture as if they were troops
They may reroll 1s to wound
TYhey may gain scout
They gain Counter Attack
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Wargear Rune Armour of the Frost Wolves- This is runic armour that has a 3++ save against attacks caused by Force Weapons or Psychic powers.
Spear of Russ- This functions as a Frost Axe that grants +2 str. When Russ charges, he may make an out of order shooting attack at Str 10 and AP 1. This attack is always in range. If Russ does throw the spear, he may not gain any CC bonuses from it, because he must retrieve it fr4om a body.
Mjarnil( or whatever it was called)- Russ' favourite Frost Blade, this grants him the same benefits as one. In addition, when wielding Mjarnil, he may use it in one of 2 manners. The first is a Bloody Harvest, where he makes D3 extra attacks against every model, friend or foe, in base contact with him. the second is to use it a ThunderHammer.
Iron Halo. Storm Bolter
Brom- Russ' mount is a massive Thunderwolf. When riding Brom, Russ counts as also being a Monstrous Creture, and follows such rules, as well as being Cavalry. In CC, Brom may be attacked as if a seperate model( He is not hit by the Bloody Harvest) with the following Profile.
Brom's attacks use the Rending Rule.
Should Brom be slain, leave a suitable marker. This becomes an additional objective, and is worth 3 KP where applicable. Should Russ be slain, Brom drags his body away and they are both removed.
Frecki and Grecki( fix if needed)- These count as a pair of Fenrisian wolves with the Rending Rule and the following upgrades.
+1 Str, +1 Int, +1 attack, +1 Sv and count as Beasts.
Roar of the Wolf Even though Russ is not psychic, this counts as a PSA, though a test is not needed. If this is not canceled, it automatically hits a unit within 12". Any psykers in the unit suffer Perils.
Wolf King- Roll a D6 and apply the results to all SW.
1-2- The SW growl, but nothing more.
3- Bloodlust- All SW gain Furious Charge and Rage
4- Pack Leader Doctrine- All SW models use the highest Ld of any SW ion the board
5- Encirclement- Any unit may outflank
6- It's Wolf Time- All models become beasts, even Dreadnoughts, and the effects of Wolf Banners extend 12" in all directions.
The Great Wolves - The Great Wolves are 5 Wolf Guard Battle Leaders. They may be armed with any equipment and weapons. They have Mark of the Wulfen, a Thunderwolf mount, a Belt of Russ and Terminator Armour. They must have these upgrades. Note thast they must still have at least 1 wargear option different, as per the HQ rules in Codex:SW.
Wargear Golden Armour of Baal, Spear of Telesto, Blade Encarmine, Angelic Wings.
Angelic Wings- These are the wings of Sanguinius, he counts as being equiped with a jump pack. Sanguinius never is obligated to make dangerous terrain tests because of leaving or entering terrain.
Blade Encarmine- This counts as a force weapon that adds +2 to strength.
Spear of Telesto- This was given to Sanguinius by the Emperor of Mankind. It projects a blast of energy which vaporises any in its path. It counts as a singing spear that adds +1 on the vehicle damage table and counts as a power weapon.
Special Rules combat tactics, atsknf
Tactical Precision Sanguinius and any unit with the DoA rule that he joins does not scatter when Deep striking.
Psychic powers- Might of Heroes, Blood Boil, Smite, Shackle Soul, Fear of Darkness.
*Sanguius may cast 3 powers a turn, only one of which may be a shooting attack
Inspiring Presence - All Blood Angels units that can draw line of sight to Sanguinius have the stubborn USR.
Foresight - Sanguius may reroll the dice for first turn or siezing the initiative, whichever you choose.
Heroic Intervention- see space marines codex
Pre-Heresy - Blood Angels in an army which includes Sanguinius is not subject Red Thirst tests, and Black Rage is ignored, however, if Sanguinius is killed during the battle, all units immediately take the required test for red thirst, and black rage is used as normal.
Wargear Armour of Magnus, Staff of Faith, Bolt Gun with Inferno Bolts, psychic hood
Armour of Magnus- Gives a 2+ armor save
Staff of Faith- Is a master crafted force weapon that allows Magnus to use up to five powers a turn
psychic hood- works like any other psychic hood with the exception that when rolling off the opponent suffers a negative 2 modifier
Special Rules Master of Sorcerers, Primarch, combat tactics, atsknf, Psyker, Psychic might
Primarch- Confers Magnus the furious charge,Independent Character, acute senses and eternal warrior special rules.
Psychic might- Gives Magnus a 3++ invulnerable save.
Inspiring presence- All friendly units within 12 inches of a primarch strike with an extra attack in close combat and when the primarch is on his last wound all units with a model within 12 inches gain the furious charge special rule. Freindly Infantry units in the same combat as the primarch now also count as a bodyguard.
Master of Sorcerers- Magnus can use any of the Librarian Powers, Chaos marine powers (apart from nurgle's rot and lash of submission) and the following.
Time Warp: Choose one unit within LOS it may not move, shoot, assault, be shot at, be assaulted, or be targeted by any powers.* note that a unit frozen on the last turn of the game will not count towards victory points.
*Magnus may never suffer wounds from perils of the warp.
*The might of the ancients power is modified to be str 8 and 3d6 for armour penetration
*The force dome power is replaced by the following Kine shield: this power is used at the start of any turn and can be cast on any unit of your choice. When cast the unit is protected from one attack of your choosing before any saves are taken
*Kine shields only last for the turn they are cast
Telekinesis- Once per game nominate an enemy vehicle within LOS and roll off against the enemy player if you score higher the vehicle is automatically removed. Note that you can add the amount of unused powers to your dice roll. but your opponent can add the amount of used powers to his dice roll.
e.g Magnus faces off a reaver battle titan and uses this power. he has already used 2 powers this turn so rolls a 2 and adds 3 to his dice roll, the opponent rolls a 2 and adds 2. As his result is lower the titan is destroyed. Note any powers you add to your dice roll you cannot use that turn.
Monstrous size- Magnus was a giant among his fellow primarchs and so is a monstrous creature.
Wargear Melta Cutter (counts as multi melta)
Servo Arm Iron Arms (allows forgebreaker to be swung at I4)
Armour of Manus (confers 2+ save)
Forgebreaker- This is a master crafted thunder hammer that when in close combat
the controlling player may sacrifice his normal attacks to make one special hit that automatically wounds or penetrates vehicle armour. This attack also inflicts instant death.
*The special hit counts as ap1
Special rules Primarch, Master of Technology, relentless, combat tactics, atsknf
Inspiring presence- All friendly units within 12 inches of a primarch strike with an extra attack in close combat and when the primarch is on his last wound all units with a model within 12 inches gain the furious charge special rule. Freindly Infantry units in the same combat as the primarch now also count as a bodyguard.
Primarch- Confers Ferrus the furious charge,Independent Character, acute senses and eternal warrior special rules.
Master of Technology (Allows him to repair any shaken, stunned, weapon destroyed or immobilised result of a vehicle that he is in base contact with at the start of his movement phase)
Wargear Sorcerers Robes, Staff of Faith, Bolt Gun with Inferno Bolts
Sorcerers Robes- Gives a 2+ 3++ armor save Staff of Faith- Is a master crafted force weapon that allows Magnus to use up to five powers a turn
Special Rules Master of Sorcerers, Fearless, Psyker
Master of Sorcerers- Magnus can use any of the Librarian Powers, Chaos marine powers (apart from nurgle's rot and lash of submission) and the following : Time Warp: Choose one unit within LOS it may not move, shoot, assault, be shot at, be assaulted, or be targeted by any powers.* note that a unit frozen on the last turn of the game will not count towards victory points.
Magnus was a giant among his fellow primarchs and so is a monstrous creature. ____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
I have taken parts from other threads on dakka please tell me what you think
Also feel free to make your own primarch rules using this as a guideline.
Ahriman - "My lord Primarch, how do you cast the time warp?"
Magnus - "It's just a jump to the left. And then a step to the right. Put your hands on your hips. You bring your knees in tight. But it's the pelvic thrust, that really drives you insane.
Let's do the time-warp again...."
Ahriman - "O.....K...... (best call the Space Wolves, Magnus has lost it again)"
kitch102 wrote:Ahriman - "My lord Primarch, how do you cast the time warp?"
Magnus - "It's just a jump to the left. And then a step to the right. Put your hands on your hips. You bring your knees in tight. But it's the pelvic thrust, that really drives you insane.
Let's do the time-warp again...."
Beat me to it.
My thoughts:
Needs a Ld value (Obviously 10, but may as well complete the stat line)
BS 9? The man only has one eye!!! If this was 7 I wouldn't throw a fit if I played against him.
5 powers per turn might be a bit much, maybe one power per phase, in both yours and your opponent's turns? Works out to more per round and gets away from avenger spam.
Does anyone have him modeled? I would love to see that.
Time Warp related serious question, how would this affect the unit as far as victory points are concerned? Ie, it's got to turn 7, magnus' last act was to cast this on a large unit of whatever (can it affect vehicles?) obviously that unit doesn't get to do anything, but aren't technically dead - what happens there?
kitch102 wrote:Ahriman - "My lord Primarch, how do you cast the time warp?"
Magnus - "It's just a jump to the left. And then a step to the right. Put your hands on your hips. You bring your knees in tight. But it's the pelvic thrust, that really drives you insane. Let's do the time-warp again...."
Beat me to it.
My thoughts:
Needs a Ld value (Obviously 10, but may as well complete the stat line)
BS 9? The man only has one eye!!! If this was 7 I wouldn't throw a fit if I played against him.
5 powers per turn might be a bit much, maybe one power per phase, in both yours and your opponent's turns? Works out to more per round and gets away from avenger spam.
Does anyone have him modeled? I would love to see that.
Thanks for the feed back i have modified the stat line to be complete and lowered his ballistic skill. In response to the powers per turn i wanted him to be a psyker supreme and coupled with being a primarch i think it would be justified. Also the people i play with wont like me shooting them in their turn.
kitch102 wrote:Time Warp related serious question, how would this affect the unit as far as victory points are concerned? Ie, it's got to turn 7, magnus' last act was to cast this on a large unit of whatever (can it affect vehicles?) obviously that unit doesn't get to do anything, but aren't technically dead - what happens there?
I would think it says one unit so that means vehicles too but the unit does not count for victory points if it is frozen on the last turn.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
DarknessEternal wrote:He should not have more wounds and higher initiative than Angron.
imo angron's rules are I mean seriously, a bloodthirster is better than him.
I like the model you would use, though it strikes me as lacking some armour, What about psychic defense? Surely, as Psychic Hood would be the minimum, and maybe with a negative modifier as well.
Lord Magnus wrote:I like the model you would use, though it strikes me as lacking some armour, What about psychic defense? Surely, as Psychic Hood would be the minimum, and maybe with a negative modifier as well.
Thanks for the suggestion i completely forgot that. I will update the rules again.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
kitch102 wrote:Ahriman - "My lord Primarch, how do you cast the time warp?"
Magnus - "It's just a jump to the left. And then a step to the right. Put your hands on your hips. You bring your knees in tight. But it's the pelvic thrust, that really drives you insane.
Let's do the time-warp again...."
Ahriman - "O.....K...... (best call the Space Wolves, Magnus has lost it again)"
First he may have only one eye. but hes a primarch.all his senses are like comparing all the combat prowess you are able ot muster and compare it to the combat prowess of a goldfish. Magnus is a beast and I belive most primarch stat's should be at min. 5. Most primarchs are able to do massive feats of strength and various things. Sangauinouis (spelling) breaks the back of a bloodthrister over his knee. And some people argue that he cant be STR10 T8. And you seem to be one of those.
And you link was quite troublesome. I only got as far as the emperor;
The Emperor………………………..550 points
[WS][BS][S][T][W][I][A][LD][SV]
Emperor] 7 5 3 3 7 8 5 12 0+
Unit Type: infantry
Wargear: Fireblade, Eagle’s Claw, Armor of The Imperium, Green wreath, psychic hood (counts as hood of hellfire)
Options: may take an emperor’s gift APC for 90 points, an artificer land raider for 290 points, an artificer rhino for 80 points. May be accompanied by custodes Veterans in artificer or custodes in terminator armor
Special Rules
Eternal warrior, relentless, liturgies of battle, Orbital bombardment, Honor or death, feel no pain 3+, Master psyker, inspiring presence, iron will
Fireblade: may be used once per game to deal a strength 10 AP 1 attack in close combat or as a ranged attack with the following profile; range hailstorm strength 7 AP 2 heavy 1
Eagle’s Claw: +4 strength lighting claw that may re roll hits and wounds
Green wreath: confers a 3+ invulnerable save
Armor of The Imperium: may re roll one armor save per turn
Custodes terminators count as troops as well as elites
Now lets make something for a huge cut in pts using dark eldar;
Archon............................165PTS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
ws7bs7s3t3w3i7a4ld10sv4+/6+
unit type: infantry
wargear:huskblade,ghostplate armour,combat drugs,soul-trap,djin blade,clone field. and a webway for a total of 200pts
special rules;fleet,night vision, power from pain, Independent character.
Huskblade-unsaved wound = instant death.
Ghostplate:gives SV 4+/6+
combat drugs; nice bag of tricks.
soul-trap; doubles str each unit killed.
Djin Blade; +2 attack's.
Clone field: creates images of one's self. add 3 more wounds.
So lets recap...Archon is 6wounds, 6 possiable str6-10 attacks that instant kill. plus combat drugs giving all kinds of nasty stuff. combat drugs-rolled a 2,4,5 or a 6 and your gold.
so stat wise besides saves hes even with the Emperahhhh. some special tricks here and there on him but for a nice point cut. The emperahhh has got nothing on a buffed archon. let alone if someone fielded that target would copypasta my archon and incubi and rush the emperahhh and most likly slaughter him. so for 580pts i have two of those archon and 10 incubi. I know your trying to no overpowered but god damn dude its the emperahh he is OP. And Magnus ripped a titan aprt with his mind ...yes five powers make sense.
Maybe an AOE quake type spell, capable of either ripping the ground apart underneath a unit of infantry (ld / pinning test or ID) or capable of ripping a vehicle to shreds. Not sure how you'd work out the damage against a vehicle though, as it'd have to be an immediate penetrate against non titans... if you're to include this rule I can see magnus becoming an apoc only character! Unless it was restricted to being used against the largest / toughest target on the board and only once in the game, IIRC Magnus was pretty drained after using this power in thousand sons (though that was against 2 titans...i think)
crudcakes wrote:I agree with mora
not that your rules aren't good but there just under powered.
And now that i think of it, any suggestions what a psychic power that could rip a titan apart would be like?
balance that is why they seem weak, but game wise their monsters. as for the psychic power, i'd say strength D, but under normal games strength 10
kitch102 wrote:Maybe an AOE quake type spell, capable of either ripping the ground apart underneath a unit of infantry (ld / pinning test or ID) or capable of ripping a vehicle to shreds. Not sure how you'd work out the damage against a vehicle though, as it'd have to be an immediate penetrate against non titans... if you're to include this rule I can see magnus becoming an apoc only character! Unless it was restricted to being used against the largest / toughest target on the board and only once in the game, IIRC Magnus was pretty drained after using this power in thousand sons (though that was against 2 titans...i think)
I had an idea
Once per game nominate an enemy super heavy vehicle and roll of against the enemy player if you score higher the vehicle is automatically removed. Note that you can add the amount of unused powers to your dice roll.
e.g magnus faces off a reaver battle titan and uses this power. he has already used 2 powers this turn so rolls of and adds 3 to his dice roll, the opponent rolls lower and the titan is destroyed.
In games where there are no super heavy vehicles this power can not be used.
Could be a bit unbalanced, how much do titans cost to field (in points)? You wouldn't want a 400 point model trouncing a 1000 point model just because he rolled a 3, got a +3 to the roll and you pulled a 5 out of the bag. If anything I think it needs to be more diufficult... how about using the same method as you mentioned but rolling against each structure point / body part? So you get the chance to immobilise by blowing the legs off, destroying the left arm weapons, killing the crew by targeting the head / brdige... etc ? Make it a little less one sided / disastrous for whoever owns said titan
kitch102 wrote:Could be a bit unbalanced, how much do titans cost to field (in points)? You wouldn't want a 400 point model trouncing a 1000 point model just because he rolled a 3, got a +3 to the roll and you pulled a 5 out of the bag. If anything I think it needs to be more diufficult... how about using the same method as you mentioned but rolling against each structure point / body part? So you get the chance to immobilise by blowing the legs off, destroying the left arm weapons, killing the crew by targeting the head / brdige... etc ? Make it a little less one sided / disastrous for whoever owns said titan
Titans cost about 750 to 5000 pts
I see where your coming from with this so ill rethink it. Keep in mind that since it is a one use power there are no second chances for magnus.
Once per game nominate an enemy vehicle and roll off against the enemy player if you score higher the vehicle is automatically removed. Note that you can add the amount of unused powers to your dice roll. but your opponent can add the amount of used powers to his dice roll. e.g magnus faces off a reaver battle titan and uses this power. he has already used 2 powers this turn so rolls a 2 and adds 3 to his dice roll, the opponent rolls a 2 and adds 2. As his result is lower the titan is destroyed. Note any powers you add to your dice roll you cannot use that turn.
I cannot think of any other way that would still remain fluffy.
edit: if magnus can crush a titan i think he can crush a landraider
I think his stats in general are waaaaaaaay too high. They were extraordinary Marines, not Daemons. We have to remember that Imperial lore is from an Imperial standpoint, thus is prone to bias and favoritism. There are a few gems in the same lore, however, as Marines old enough to remember have said that the Emperor was no god, he was just an extraordinary man (with insane psychic power, given all the stuff he is still able to do in his weakened state).
I keep telling people that if they want an accurate comparison to what a Primarch statline should look like, just look at the Sanguinor as he could very well be the manifestation of Sanguinius (or rather Sanguinius sans his darker side). Mephiston is a bad example as he could very well no longer be human (as some of the lore potentially hints at).
Max Stats for a Primarch (excluding extenuating circumstances such as bionics, wargear, etc)...
WS no higher than 9 (most Primarchs would have 7-8, 9 should be reserved for a few close quarters specialists such as Russ).
BS no higher than 5.
S no higher than 6.
T no higher than 5.
W no higher than 4.
I no higher than 6.
A no higher than 5.
LD of 10.
SV of 2+ with an Invulnerable Save of 4+ naturally, unless they have some wargear or mental/physical trait which would make it higher.
I think a toughness of 6 is, if anything, low for a Primarch. I mean look at Chaplain Cassius, he's just an old Ultramarine with a few bionics and he's T6, I just think it's really hard to accurately make a Primarch using the scale we have, but I think these rules for Magnus are by far the best and fairest I've seen so far.
If I see someone over/under powering a Primarch in a similar thread, I know I'll be directing them here as a reference.
Deadshot wrote:my comments are in Bold and red text.
Marik Law wrote:WS no higher than 9 (most Primarchs would have 7-8, 9 should be reserved for a few close quarters specialists such as Russ).
Fine. BS no higher than 5.
Draigo has BS 6, so does Telion. Assassins have BS 8
S no higher than 6.
7 Minimum. Higher than a Lictor is what I say.
T no higher than 5.
Draigo is 5. 7 minimum. Keeps them tougher than MCs, but less tough as C'tan abnd Wraithlords.
W no higher than 4.
5 minmum. A Primarch will take more damage than a Carnifex or Calgar.
I no higher than 6.
As fats as genestealers or Wyches?
A no higher than 5.
Russ would have more, maybe 5.
LD of 10.
SV of 2+ with an Invulnerable Save of 4+ naturally, unless they have some wargear or mental/physical trait which would make it higher.
Deadshot, A primarch should not really be represented by his stats, the TOUGHEST Primarchs (Ferrus Manus) May have t7 but that should be the limit, honestly, as a human goes untainted by chaos should be 6, even Primarchs, Some of them should be 5, The weakest would have 4 wounds, Like Kurze for example, however, they may be faster, or more skilled that others, Magnus being a giant of a Primarch should have 6's for toughness and strength, and maybe wounds as well, but Primarchs should have special rules like, Fearless, Acute Senses, Preferred Enemy, Furious Charge, And Eternal Warrior, While they may not be as physically resilient as a gigantic lumbering carnifex, they would take just as much damage, and they would have amazing combat/shooting powers, or chapter boosting abilities, You cannot make primarchs all 7's and 8's across the board, the CRAZY special rules is what makes them what they are, special. Also, yes, primarchs are wearing up to hundreds of pounds of armour, even as great warriors, they should not step on the toes of elves in space, which are the fastest thing there is. Maybe without armor they would warrant a higher initiative but I6 for a walking tank of doom isn't actually that horrible. The attacks would be 4-6 depending on the speed and ferocity of the Primarchs, Law is right on a 2+ 4++, and LD 10, but the point is, you can't make primarchs the primarchs they are just by making their stats way OTT, its the rules that make the primarch, and the wargear he carries, this can represent all of his prowess, not, WS10 BS8 S8 T7 I8 A 24 1/2 LD 10 Sv 2++
Lord Magnus wrote:I like the model you would use, though it strikes me as lacking some armour, What about psychic defense? Surely, as Psychic Hood would be the minimum, and maybe with a negative modifier as well.
Thanks for the suggestion i completely forgot that. I will update the rules again.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
kitch102 wrote:Ahriman - "My lord Primarch, how do you cast the time warp?"
Magnus - "It's just a jump to the left. And then a step to the right. Put your hands on your hips. You bring your knees in tight. But it's the pelvic thrust, that really drives you insane.
Let's do the time-warp again...."
Ahriman - "O.....K...... (best call the Space Wolves, Magnus has lost it again)"
Pmsl
permission to signature this?
Permission granted, though you never needed it in the first place :p
Wargear
melta cutter (counts as multi melta)
servo arm
iron arms (adds plus one strength and ignores armour saves)
armour of manus (confers 2+ save)
Special rules
primarch
master of technology (allows him to repair any shaken, stunned, weapon destroyed or immobilised result of a vehicle that he is in base contact with at the start of his movement phase)
Wargear
melta cutter (counts as multi melta)
servo arm
iron arms (adds plus one strength and ignores armour saves)
armour of manus (confers 2+ save)
Special rules
primarch
master of technology (allows him to repair any shaken, stunned, weapon destroyed or immobilised result of a vehicle that he is in base contact with at the start of his movement phase)
Ok they are pretty good, ill put them on the first post and change the thread name.
Where is his Hammer, Forgebreaker? QWhen I made my Neo 40K Primarch rules, as in the Primarchs if they were still all alive, I gave Perturabo, who ended up with the Hammer, Forgebreaker. What I did with it was make it strike at SDtr D.
kitch102 wrote:Ahriman - "My lord Primarch, how do you cast the time warp?"
Magnus - "It's just a jump to the left. And then a step to the right. Put your hands on your hips. You bring your knees in tight. But it's the pelvic thrust, that really drives you insane.
Let's do the time-warp again...."
Ahriman - "O.....K...... (best call the Space Wolves, Magnus has lost it again)"
Pmsl
I'm so glad I'm not the only one that thought this!
Deadshot wrote:Where is his Hammer, Forgebreaker? QWhen I made my Neo 40K Primarch rules, as in the Primarchs if they were still all alive, I gave Perturabo, who ended up with the Hammer, Forgebreaker. What I did with it was make it strike at SDtr D.
i thought about doing that but if i gave him forgebreaker it would make his iron arms useless
Lord Magnus wrote:Well Give him forgebreaker, and then say because of his immense arm strength he can swing it at I4, This wouldn't be that op, he is a primarch..
Deadshot wrote:What about making his iron arms give the opponent a random armour save, to represent him altering the shape. This gives a bit of randomness.
Also, because his arms are a CCW, he woukld only be able to use them or the Hammer. My Srtr D was only a suggestion, make it your own.
mabye if he could count having forgebreaker as a master crafted thunder hammer which can be swung a I 4 then making it able to sacrifice all attacks to make 1 D attack
Destroyer weapons wound automatically with no roll, and inflict ID. They auto-pen vehicles and add +1 to damage. They also ignore cover. Invulnerables are still allowed
Lord Magnus wrote:But the ork shokk attack gun does not allow invuls, and is not labeled as an actual D weapon..
I do realise that, but the fact that it is not labeled as a D weapon but does nearly all the same things means that apocalypse only rules can be bypassed and introduced in to normal games of 40k with careful wording, take this for example.
Forgebreaker- This is a master crafted thunder hammer that strikes at initiave 4
however when in close combat the controlling player may sacrifice his normal attacks to make one special hit that automatically wounds or penetrates vehicle armour. This attack also inflicts instant death.
*The special hit counts as ap1
It is like str D but because it is not called str D and has no reference to the apocalypse rule book and it can be used in a normal 40k game.
I was also thinking of adding this special rule for both primarch's.
Inspiringpresence- All friendly units within 12 inches of a primarch strike with an extra attack in close combat and when the primarch is on his last wound all units with a model within 12 inches gain the furious charge special rule. Freindly Infantry units in the same combat as the primarch now also count as a bodyguard.
I thought the thread was going a bit dead so i thought up of some Horus rules.
Please note these rules represent Horus at the siege of Terra. __________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Wargear Armour of Horus, Power Maul, Talon of Horus
Armour of Horus- Gives Horus a 2+ armour save Power maul, Talon of Horus- The power maul and talon of Horus work as one weapon that does the following. All attacks from Horus count as str 10, roll 2d6 for armour penetration, ignore armour saves, re roll failed rolls to wound and all successful invulnerable saves made must be re rolled. Horus also strikes with d6 extra attacks but if he rolls a 1 for these attacks something has gone wrong and he fights without any extra attacks.
Special rules Mark of Chaos Ascendant, Chosen of the Gods, Primarch, Inspiring presence, Psychic blast, Warp rift
Mark of Chaos Ascendant- Horus has resisted becoming a pawn of any individual god and instead has the blessings from all four. This rule confers Horus all the marks of the gods which have already been put in his stat line.
Chosen of the gods- Horus has the divine protection from all four gods and so has a 3++ invulnerable save, the warptime psychic power and the following special rules: feel no pain, fleet Also any attack that would remove Horus immediately instead only takes d6 wounds of him.
Primarch- Confers Horus the furious charge, acute senses and eternal warrior special rules.
Inspiring presence- All friendly units within 12 inches of a primarch strike with an extra attack in close combat and when the primarch is on his last wound all units with a model within 12 inches gain the furious charge special rule. Friendly Infantry units in the same combat as the primarch now also count as a bodyguard.
Psychic Blast- Horus was capable of delivering a crippling psychic blast to an unfortunate enemy. This is a psychic shooting attack with the following profile. Range/ 48''/ Str/ 10/ Ap/ 1/ Special/ inflicts d6 +d3 hits
Warp rift- Due to the fact that Horus can hold open powerful warp rifts any daemon unit that deep strikes does not scatter
I would actually just give him eternal warrior, if calgar and draigo get it, he certainly should, also, would you mind if I posted my Sanguinius rules here?
Lord Magnus wrote:I would actually just give him eternal warrior, if calgar and draigo get it, he certainly should, also, would you mind if I posted my Sanguinius rules here?
Im pretty sure he has got the eternal warrior rule and yes you can post your sanguinius rules here.
Edit: i checked and he does. Primarch- Confers Horus the furious charge, acute senses and eternal warrior special rules.
Golden Armour of Baal, Spear of Telesto, Blade Encarmine, Angelic Wings.
Angelic Wings - These are the wings of Sanguinius, he counts as being equiped with a jump pack. Sanguinius never is obligated to make dangerous terrain tests because of leaving or entering terrain.
Blade Encarmine - This counts as a force weapon that adds +2 to strength.
Spear of Telesto - This was given to Sanguinius by the Emperor of Mankind. It projects a blast of energy which vaporises any in its path. It counts as a singing spear with an ap of 1
Descent of Angels (x2) - Sanguinius and any squad he accompanies do not scatter when they deepstrike
Might of Heroes, Blood Boil, Smite, Shackle Soul, Fear of Darkness.
Inspiring Presence - All Blood Angels units that can draw line of sight to Sanguinius have the stubborn USR.
Sanguius may cast 3 powers a turn, only one of which may be a shooting attack.
Foresight - Sanguius may reroll the dice for first turn or siezing the initiative, whichever you choose.
Pre-Heresy - Blood Angels in an army which includes Sanguinius is not subject Red Thirst tests, and Black Rage is ignored, however, if Sanguinius is killed during the battle, all units immediately take the required test for red thirst, and black rage is used as normal.
IIRC, Tactical Presicion means Dante ( and I am not sure if the wording says Danrte. If so, just state Sanguinius), and any unit with the DoA rule that he joins does not scatter when DSing. Like DoA, it only works for Jp models.
Well, one of my early threads was for Primnarchs, including Daemon Primarchs and Gods. I won't restart that one, but will be bringing some of them over. A lot of them were designed to be "Post Heresy", but if they had all survived.
Leman Russ
WSBS S T W I A LdSv 8 7 6 6 4 6 6 10 2+
Type Calavalry
Wargear
Rune Armour of the Frost Wolves
This uis runic armour that has a 3++ save against attacks caused by Force Weapons or Psychich powers.
Spear of Russ
This functions as a Frost Axe that grants +2 str. When Russ charges, he may make an out of order shooting attack at Str 10 and AP 1. This attack is always in range. If Russ does throw the spear, he may not gain any CC bonuses from it, because he must retrieve it fr4om a body.
Mjarnil( or whatever it was called)
Russ' favourite Frost Blade, this grants him the same benefits as one. In addition, when wielding Mjarnil, he may use it in one of 2 manners. The first is a Bloody Harvest, where he makes D3 extra attacks against every model, friend or foe, in base contact with him. the second is to use it a ThunderHammer.
Iron Halo.
Storm Bolter
Special Rules
Brom
Russ' mount is a massive Thunderwolf. When riding Brom, Russ counts as also being a Monstrous Creture, and follows such rules, as well as being Cavalry. In CC, Brom may be attacked as if a seperate model( He is not hit by the Bloody Harvest) with the following Profile.
WSBS S T W I A LdSv 4 0 5 5 2 4 3 - 4+
Brom's attacks use the Rending Rule.
Should Brom be slain, leave a suitable marker. This becomes an additional objective, and is worth 3 KP where applicable. Should Russ be slain, Brom drags his body away and they are both removed.
Frecki and Grecki( fix if needed)
These count as a pair of Fenrisian wolves with the Rending Rule and the following upgrades.
+1 Str, +1 Int, +1 attack, +1 Sv and count as Beasts.
Roar of the Wolf
Even though Russ is not psychic, this counts as a PSA, though a test is not needed. If this is not canceled, it automatically hits a unit within 12". Any psykers in the unit suffer Perils.
Fearless
Acute Senses
Eternal Warrior
Fleet
IC Counter Attack
Wolf King
Roll a D6 and apply the results to all SW.
1-2
The SW growl, but nothing more.
3 Bloodlust
All SW gain Furious Charge and Rage
4 Pack Leader Doctrine
All SW models use the highest Ld of any SW ion the board
5 Encirclement
Any unit may outflank
6 It's Wolf Time
All models become beasts, even Dreadnoughts, and the effects of Wolf Banners extend 12" in all directions.
I had originally put this down as 1500pts, but I am thinking 500?
Looking over horus again, I would drop the psychic blast range to 24 inches, he couldn't point at some titan or vehicle hundreds of yards away and have it just explode..
Automatically Appended Next Post: Will be posting rules for Kurze soon
Iron Halo, Talons of Midnight, Corona Nox, Armor of Midnight, Jump Pack.
Talons of Midnight - These are a pair of Lightning Claws that grant Curze +1 attack and rending.
Armor of Midnight - This is a set of Artificer Armour, when a unit shoots at Curze they must use the night fighting rules, Curze and his squad also gain 5+ cover that is increased to 3+ while night fighting is in effect.
Corona Nox - The crown of the Night Haunter, which is possesed and gives him further protection, his invulnerable save is increased by 1, and he gains the Feel no Pain special rule.
Special Rules
Primarch - This special rule grants the Eternal Warrior, Fleet, Night Vision, Stubborn, Move Through Cover, And They Shall Know No Fear and Preferred Enemy special rules.
Scout
Lord of Night and Terror - any unit attempting to assault Curze must first make a leadership at -3 or have its weapon skill and intiative reduced by 2.
If night fighting rules are in effect then the leadership must be taken at -4.
Furious Charge
Dual Personality - Curze suffers from 2 personalities, at the beggining of the game roll a d6, and consult the following chart.
1 - Takes an automatic wound as his two selves battle with each other, then apply the result for 2
2 - has the Rage usr, may not join a unit, and counts as jump infantry as his anger surges through him
3,4 - works as normal and is balanced between the 2 personalities
5 - Curze gains +1 attacks as he contiues his crusade for justice
6 - Curze gains +1 to Weapon Skill, Intiative, and Attacks. He gains holy rage to cut down the enemies of the Emperor.
Night Lords Intimidation - All friendly Chaos Space Marine units gain furious charge, and cause a -1 to leadership when the enemy loses combat.
Cut Them Down - anytime Curze takes an intiative test to pursue, add +1 to his dice roll for intiative.
For Cut Them Down, do you mean he gets a +1 to Sweeping Advances?
Very Nice. I will think up Gulliman tomorrow, because me, being the gold hearted person I am, don't want anyone to go through such torment.
Automatically Appended Next Post: In fact...
Gulliman (Pre Heresy)....700pts
WSBS S T W I A LdSv 7 7 6 6 4 6 4 10 2+
Wargear The Gaunlets of Ultramr See Marneus Calgar (a pair of powerfist with an AP 2 Stormbolter) The Sword of the Consuls This is a master crafted Power weapon that is 2 handed Shield of Macragge This is a Storm Shield that grants a reroll if the 3++ is failed, but this is only passed on a 6+.
Bolter with Special Ammunition Termiantor Armour with Built in Locator beacon.
Special Rules ATSKNF Comabt Tactics IC EW God of War Orbital Strike This works exactly like an Orbital bombardment, but is str D and AP 2. Master Tactnician After all infiltarte and scout moves have been made, D3 units in the army may do one of the following They may redeploy in their deployment zone, at least 12" away from any enemy. They may make scout moves They may be reserved and gain the outflank rule. Grand Statagy Select D3 Infantry, Jump Infanrty or Walker units. these units gain one of the following. They may capture as if they were troops They may reroll 1s to wound TYhey may gain scout They gain Counter Attack
Wow great rule sets and yes thank you deadshot for ridding us of the burden of rowboat girlyman.
I will add these rules to the main post and will reduce the range of the psychic blast.
Also in my opinion ATSNKF is post heresy but thats just my veiw.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Deadshot wrote: Wargear The Gaunlets of Ultramr See Marneus Calgar (a pair of powerfist with an AP 2 Stormbolter) The Sword of the Consuls This is a master crafted Power weapon that is 2 handed Shield of Macragge This is a Storm Shield that grants a reroll if the 3++ is failed, but this is only passed on a 6+.
Bolter with Special Ammunition Termiantor Armour with Built in Locator beacon.
I think maybe just maybe, he might have too many weapons.
Well, he is Girlyman, so he MUST have the Gauntlets. Hwoever, like Calgar, he also has a sword, so his high Int can be ued. The Gauntlets come with the AP 2 Stormbolter built in, but I wanted him to have other options, so I gain him Special Ammo. That way he can use Kraken Bolts for long Range, Dragonfire to ignore cover, and Hellfire for the biog beasties.
I may just edit out the bolter and leave him with special ammo.When I say he has an AP 2 stormbolter, that is only because it is assault 2. They can still take Special Ammo.
Artificer Armour, Iron Halo, The Lantern, Man Reaper, Frag Grenades.
The Lantern - This is Mortarion's pistol, it has the following profile:
S8 AP1 RNG12"
Manreaper - This is daemon weapon which increases the bearers strength by 2 and allows 2d6 armour penatration for vehicles. It also has a potent poison of nurgle that allows rerolls to wound.
Special Rules
Independent Character
Primarch - This special rule grants the Eternal Warrior, Fleet, Night Vision, and Preferred Enemy special rules.
Mark of Nurgle (included in profile)
Feel No Pain
Toxic Gas - Mortarion emits the toxic gases of his home planet, strengthened by nurgle to poison foes, at the end of each Chaos player turn, any enemy model within 6 inches of takes a wound on a 4+ with armour saves allowed. He also counts as being equipped with defensive grenades
This is Mortarion at his "Chaos Lord" and "Plague Marine" Stages, before he is granted the gift of being a Daemon.
Wargear Gore father, God tearer, Mantle of the world eaters
Gore Father- Angron's chain axe gore father confers the following. Gore father doubles angron's strength, counts as ap 1, rolls 2d6 for armour penetration and gives angron 2d6 extra attacks God tearer- angron's custom storm bolter with the following profile. Range- 24 /S- 5 /Ap- 4 /Special- assault 2 Mantle of the World Eaters- Angron's personal suit of armour gives him a 2+ save and furthermore any psychic power directed at angron friendly or enemy does not effect him.
Special Rules Primarch, blessings of the blood god, Inspiring Presence, Avatar of khorne.
Primarch- Confers Angron the furious charge, fleet, Independent Character, acute senses and eternal warrior special rules.
Inspiring presence- All friendly units within 12 inches of a primarch strike with an extra attack in close combat and when the primarch is on his last wound all units with a model within 12 inches gain the furious charge special rule. Friendly Infantry units in the same combat as the primarch now also count as a bodyguard.
Avatar of Khorne- Angron can re roll all failed rolls to wound and always hits on a 2+
Blessings of the blood god- Gives angron a 2++ save against force weapons and psychic shooting attacks ______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
But iirc they aren't the best, as Primarchs deserve... In addition, we would have to change our awesome rules to be more in line with his official ones...
WSBS S T W I A LdSv Mortarion 7 6 6 8 5 5 5 10 2+/3+
Independent character
Wargear: Manreaper, Lantern, Artificer Armour, Death Shroud
SPECIAL RULES
Manreaper: Fashioned back on Barbarus he carried a huge two handed archaic Scythe he called Manreaper: It counts as a Power Weapon. Mortarion gains +1 attack for every opponent he faces.
Lantern: Mortarion carried a rare hand crafted energy pistol of Shenlongi design: Counts as Master crafted Plasma Pistol which does not suffer from the “gets hot” special rule
Artificer Armour: Mortarion wears a full suit of uniquely crafted power armour coated with brass and bare steel: Counts as Artificer Armour giving a 2+ save.
Shroud of Barbarus: He wore a tattered flapping cloak at all times wrapped round his body and face which oftenconfuse his outline and distracted from his actual position making him hard to hit. Rumor within the Legion suggested it was the death shroud used to bury the very last Necromancer Mortarion killed on Barbarus. Counts as a 3+ invulnerable save
Death Incarnate: The death like spectre of Mortarion advancing across the battlefield was enough to make even hardened veterans soil themselves in fear: Mortarion causes Fear and any unit wishing to assault him (and any unit he attached to) must pass a leadership test on 3D6 (discarding the lowest) otherwise they remain frozen to the spot.
Toxic Personality: About his person he also wears a string of globe-shaped brass censers which contain poisonous gases from his home world: Any unit assaulting Mortarion must reduce its WS by 1 (to a minimum of 1) this is cumulative each turn.
Deathshroud(This rule replaces the Honor of the Primarch rule): These are his personal bodyguard. They are marines who are listed as killed in action and then made to wear a mask for the rest of their lives so that only Mortarion may know their true identity. They may never be more than 49 paces away from Mortarion at any time: Must remain within 6" of Mortarion at all times (therefore acting as a single unit). However, if Mortarion is killed, they may move and function as Independent Characters. For game play purposes, treat them as Masters (per Codex: Space Marines HQ) with the fixed set of warger listed below, and unable to take retinues.
Also, due to their presence, Mortarion may not be targeted out separately (despite his size), they are immune to all psychology and benefit from +1T. Armed with Manreapers (Two-handed Power Weapon, bearer gains +D6 against multiple opponents OR a single attack against 1 opponent) and Assault Cannons, wearing Terminator Armour.
Relentlessly Forward: Mortarion was a great believer in the infantry army and trained his troops to advance on the enemy no matter what was thrown at them. Must always move towards the enemy in his movement phase (he must end his turn at least 1" closer to an enemy unit than he started it, though he does not have to move the full 6"))-though he does not have to charge in the Assault phase (should he choose not to). May never fall back-if a rule calls for this and it states no matter what-he will simply stand his ground.* If Mortarion has joined a unit containing heavy weapons they may still fire if they move 1” or less, if forced to move .*
Infantry Above All: Eschewing vehicles in preference of a steady advance on foot witling down the enemies numberswith a hail of Bolter fire is the way of the death Guard-so teaches Mortarion: May not take Rhinos or Razorbacks but Drop pods, Thunderhawks etc cost half points (rounding up).
Wargear
The Lion Blade
This is a master Crafted Power Weapon that gives +1 str. if you roll a 6 to wound with this Plasma infused sword, the opponent must reduce his Armour Save by 1 untill the end off the following Player turn. However, if a 1 to wound is rolled, Lion must take a wound with no armour saves allowed, as the massive flux of Plasma discharges in his face.
Plasma Blaster
Range StrAP Type
24" 7 2 Assault 2, Gets Hot!
Artificer Armour
The Hide of the Lion.
Taken from the lion he killed on Caliban, the impenatrble hide gives him a 3++ save.
Special Rules
ATSKNF Beast hunter
The Lion and any squad he has joined gain the Prefered Enemy (Beasts and Cavalry), USR.
IC EW Acute Senses
Furious Charge
The Lion and The Wolf
Such is the kinship between Leman Russ and The Lion, that you may include a single unit of Wolf Guard from Codex: Space Wolves, in your army.
Wargear
The Song of Entropy and the Unbound Flame
These are a pair of MCTH.
The Spear of Vulkan
The Gauntlet of the Forge
Kesare's Mantle
Artificer Armour
Frag and Krak Grenades
Special Rules
ATSKNF Combat Tactics
Chapter Tactics(see Vulkan He'stan)
IC EW Night Vision
The Eye of Vulkan
If Vulkan doesn't move, he can fire an Orbital Bombardment of Str D, AP 2, using the 10" template
this forum is going towards a really cool perspective...but I dont mean to burst the bubble of hard work, but there is a book with rules for the primarchs, and their legions, which was playtested and things to make sure it was fair, not sure on the link, if I do find it Ill post it here. bar ein mind it isnt gw so they wont allow it.
Wargear:
Gladius- MC power weapon.
Bolt Pistol.
Alpha Armour- Artificier armour which also makes him Unidentifiable when in a unit (cannot be targeted) and confers a 4++ save.
Frag+Krak grenades.
Special Rules:
IC, ATSKNF, Combat Tactics, EW.
I am Alpharius: When Alpharius dies, on a roll of 3+ an Alpha Legion sergeant anywhere on the board can be replaced with Alpharius on 3W. This can only be used once per battle.
According to plan: The player controlling Alpharius always chooses the location of the enemy's Deep Strikes.
Draw them out: Once in the battle, the player controlling Alpharius can force one unit in the opponent's army to assault a unit under the control of the Alpha Legion player. They must be able to get into combat with the target unit, and never gain any bonuses from assaulting because of this.
Alpha and Omega: For +500pts, Omegon can be taken too. He has the same wargear, stats and rules (and is treated as another Alpharius for the purposes of I am Alpharius), apart from the following:
-Stealth Armour: 2+Sv, improves Cover save by 2. Grants Unidentifiable.
-Doesn't have According to Plan or Draw them Out.
Wargear The Raven's Talons. These are a pair of master crafted Lightning Claws with the Rending rule. Note that only one reroll to hit per turn is allowed Bolt Pistol Artifcer Armour Frag Studded artificer armour ( counts as Articer armour and Frag Grenades) Raven Flight Pack Basically a pair of ultra low density mechanical wings, these allow Corax to move as Jump Infanrty, but still embark on vehicles, counting as 2 models. if the vehicle can actually carry JI, eg, Stormravens, the he counts as one.
Special Rules ATSKNF IC EW Acute Senses Hit and Run Combat Tactics Chapter Tactics (see Captain Shrike) See, but Remain, Unseen Flight of the Raven Corax does not Scatter when deep striking. Further more, he may assault on the turn he does so, but only if he is alone. if he has joined a unit the back draft from ther JP, the phasing out of the Warp or whatever, else, leaves his squad disorientated and he is wrong footed to charge. Furthermore, when conducting a Death or Glory, he may do one of the following.
Strike against the Side(top) armour, to represent him flying up them slashing down. If he fails to stop the tank, he may escape on a 5+. If successful, place him within 12" of his last position using the DS rules. if this situation he scatters 3D6", and may not move, run or Assault in his next turn.
Wargear:
Either:
-Firesword- Power weapon, can make a shooting attack with the following profile:
Range: Template, S6 AP3, Assault 1
-Laeran Blade- Power weapon, inflicts Instant Death.
-Anatheme- Power weapon, always hits on a 2+, always wounds on a 2+.
Bolt Pistol.
Artificier Armour.
The Emperor's Aquila- confers a 4++ save.
Frag and Krak grenades.
Special Rules:
IC EW ATSKNF Combat Tactics
Furious Charge
Perfectionist- Can re-roll all failed to hit and to wound.
Phoenician- When a member of a unit that Fulgrim has joined takes a wound in combat, Fulgrim can make an attack after all other attacks (one for each wound taken by the unit)
And for ther record, he didn't use the Anatheme. in the novel he
Spoiler:
Implaed the statue of the Emperor, along with its maker, on the blade. Then the girl the guy loves comes along, and impales herself. Fulgrim is surprised, and leaves them there.
Dark Crozius - This is a Crozius, which gives the bearer +d6 attack in CC
Bolt Pistol
Artificer Armour
Frag and Krak Grenades
Special Rules
Chaos Protection - Lorgar gains a 4+ invulnerable save
Favor of the gods - Lorgar and any unit he is with benefit from the warptime psychic power, which always counts as being in effect without casting, and cannot be nullified.
Bearer of the Word - All units withing 18' inches of Lorgar benefit from the Furious Charge and Fearless rules, and +1 attack in close combat.
Deadshot wrote:Is this before or after he becomes a 4 armed DP?
And for ther record, he didn't use the Anatheme. in the novel he
Spoiler:
Implaed the statue of the Emperor, along with its maker, on the blade. Then the girl the guy loves comes along, and impales herself. Fulgrim is surprised, and leaves them there.
He apparently takes it back though, since he ripped Guilliman's neck out with it.
Just a question, for Deadshot, as well as the others who are carrying this thread. Caution: I am a Raven Guard fanboy, so the following may be irrational.
How are you basing these off of fluff? Both the Raven and the Night Haunter were basically tied for fastest Primarch ever, and I would put both their initiatives as 10's. From my reading of the various books, most primarchs would have had an initiative of 8 or higher. Even the slowest of primarchs, Ferrus and Mortarion, were still light years ahead of their leigionaires.
Also, a couple of ticks with the general wargear choices among the various Primarchs. Having read this thread, it seems like there is a lot of glory dumped on the more known Primarchs like Robute Guilliman and Leman Russ and Sanguinious (who incidentally have more fluff and whose chapters get more air time in the various rule books). In your rules, Russ and Guiliman have lists of awesome unique wargear, and Corax and Lorgar get bolt pistols. Why do these primarchs get the same equipment that their initiate scouts get? It seems Corax is just a Captain Shrike with better stats, and Sanguinious is pure glory, wears glory armor, has a glory halo, and has a glory spear.
This leaves four of your primarchs who are awesome (both force amplifiers AND death star units on their own) and the rest just seem like you are filling in the gaps with half-baked ideas so you can say you have a full list of primarchs. Many of these are just Space Marine Captains with better stat lines and a rule or two.
I personally think that you need to crank up the power and points for most of these guys, especially if you are taking a fluff-based approach as is claimed in multiple posts. In the fluff, these Primarchs are straight up amazing. Maybe you can consider having a stat that is above 10, even? Try and find a fanboy for each chapter who can defend the primarchs that don't already have advocates among the current posters. The hard part of what you are doing is that nobody is a fanboy of all the primarchs, so each one will try and make thier primarch better than all the others. I am overcome with a desire to shout out how Corax has been wronged by the malicious people on DakkaDakka, and feel the need to right this terrible wrong. I can rationally analyze this and realize that that is unlikely, but the fanboy in me rages away anyways.
Sorry if I came across as hostile, fanboyism is a daily struggle for me. I am very passionate about the fluff, and this gets me in trouble often. I am not trying to accuse anybody of anything, even though part of me really really wants to. I do think this primarch project is a good idea, and want to contribute, but not in a negative way. If the above is tolerable for everyone, then I fell safe contributing, but if anyone feels that I have been too hostile, I will go back to lurking like I do.
Thank you for your constructive criticism OmegaStriker if you wish (seeing that you are a raven guard fan boy) to post rules for corax feel free to do so and i will put them on the main page to possibly replace the other ruleset if the people on this thread agree that it is better.
Also please make a list of all the primarchs you think are under powered or not correct and i will personally try to fix them with help from the creators.
OmegaStriker wrote:Just a question, for Deadshot, as well as the others who are carrying this thread. Caution: I am a Raven Guard fanboy, so the following may be irrational.
How are you basing these off of fluff? Both the Raven and the Night Haunter were basically tied for fastest Primarch ever, and I would put both their initiatives as 10's. From my reading of the various books, most primarchs would have had an initiative of 8 or higher. Even the slowest of primarchs, Ferrus and Mortarion, were still light years ahead of their leigionaires.
Also, a couple of ticks with the general wargear choices among the various Primarchs. Having read this thread, it seems like there is a lot of glory dumped on the more known Primarchs like Robute Guilliman and Leman Russ and Sanguinious (who incidentally have more fluff and whose chapters get more air time in the various rule books). In your rules, Russ and Guiliman have lists of awesome unique wargear, and Corax and Lorgar get bolt pistols. Why do these primarchs get the same equipment that their initiate scouts get? It seems Corax is just a Captain Shrike with better stats, and Sanguinious is pure glory, wears glory armor, has a glory halo, and has a glory spear.
This leaves four of your primarchs who are awesome (both force amplifiers AND death star units on their own) and the rest just seem like you are filling in the gaps with half-baked ideas so you can say you have a full list of primarchs. Many of these are just Space Marine Captains with better stat lines and a rule or two.
I personally think that you need to crank up the power and points for most of these guys, especially if you are taking a fluff-based approach as is claimed in multiple posts. In the fluff, these Primarchs are straight up amazing. Maybe you can consider having a stat that is above 10, even? Try and find a fanboy for each chapter who can defend the primarchs that don't already have advocates among the current posters. The hard part of what you are doing is that nobody is a fanboy of all the primarchs, so each one will try and make thier primarch better than all the others. I am overcome with a desire to shout out how Corax has been wronged by the malicious people on DakkaDakka, and feel the need to right this terrible wrong. I can rationally analyze this and realize that that is unlikely, but the fanboy in me rages away anyways.
Sorry if I came across as hostile, fanboyism is a daily struggle for me. I am very passionate about the fluff, and this gets me in trouble often. I am not trying to accuse anybody of anything, even though part of me really really wants to. I do think this primarch project is a good idea, and want to contribute, but not in a negative way. If the above is tolerable for everyone, then I fell safe contributing, but if anyone feels that I have been too hostile, I will go back to lurking like I do.
I agree that some of our Primarchs have been more of an outline, but honestly the only Primarch I feel I myself have made bland is Mortarion, who is one of my favorite Primarchs, My reason for this is, how would you have me change plague marines (Death Guard)?
I felt that rather than having Lorgar as a super beast by himself, his abilities to spread the word to his legion were acceptable in that he boosts those around him, rather than himself, a whole Squad with warptime, and an 18 inch FC and +1 attack, with fearless, bubble, I felt this was good enough to represent his personal qualities. as for the bolt pistol, what do you want me to give to him? A plasma pistol? This doesn't strike as a big issue.. In the fluff has Lorgar wielded some supreme range weapon? If so, I would be happy to represent it.
Automatically Appended Next Post: By the way guys, we should add Combat Tactics and ATSKNF to all of the Primarchs special rules.
I felt that rather than having Lorgar as a super beast by himself, his abilities to spread the word to his legion were acceptable in that he boosts those around him, rather than himself, a whole Squad with warptime, and an 18 inch FC and +1 attack, with fearless, bubble, I felt this was good enough to represent his personal qualities. as for the bolt pistol, what do you want me to give to him? A plasma pistol? This doesn't strike as a big issue.. In the fluff has Lorgar wielded some supreme range weapon? If so, I would be happy to represent it.
Automatically Appended Next Post: By the way guys, we should add Combat Tactics and ATSKNF to all of the Primarchs special rules.
I think we should give lorgar a 3++ invulnerable save but other than that your rules are great.
combat tactics and atsknf on all the primarchs is a good idea.
The rerason is because, rather than have 1 person write the rules, where they are all in relation to each other, you have opinions.
I agree that Corax and Kurze shopuld be 10 Int. When I made my rules, as well as being uber one man death stars+++++, they were 1500pts, so I had to rethink.
Most of the Primarchs would be Int 8, but then DE and Eldar coming in with
" We are the fastest armies, and why don't we get the fastest stuff?"
Automatically Appended Next Post: And the reason for Bolt Pistols is that it is a trade of.
Guilliman. I gave him powerfists, an AP stormbolter, and a Sternguard's gun. He has a power weapon. The trade off for his megre wargear is his tactical abilities, sort of a Deciever thath helps your side.
Corax is a close combat monster, with Rending Lighning claws, higher than average Int, and the ability to embark transports, as well as being an excellent anti Tank Shocker. he just flies up and chops the top of a Battle Wagon off. So in exchange, and also cause I can't see him holding a weapon in those hands, he has megre shooting abilities.
Perturabo (Traitor) 700
WSBSStr T W Int A LdSv 8 7 6 7 5 5 4 10 2+3++
Wargear Stormhammers These are a pair of Thunder Hammers that's hits count as Ordnance. Terminator Armour Servo Harness( see codex SM)
Iron Skin Perturabo's Iron hard skin gives him +1 T, +1 wound, and a 3++ save, though he becomes SNP and -1 Int. Bonuses and penaltiesd already included in the profile.
Rule Fearless EW MTC Siege Master Perturabo is a master of sige warfare.
In an army that includes him, Lance and melta Weapons become TL, and Ordnance weapons roll 3D6 instead of 2 when penetrating vehicle armour and pick the highest. Furthermore, when playing planetstrike, his armies may make an additional D3 Firestorm attacks, even if they arer the defender, to represent powerful AA weapons. Perturabo and his squad have the Tank Hunters special rules.
"Daemons, not gods"
In an army with Perturabo, you may not include any Summoned Daemons.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Combat Tactics has 2 uses. One is Gulliman's own style. it even says in C:SM, that this is Gulliman's style.
The second is it is required for Chapter Tactics. As some of the Primarch's don't have Chapter Tactics, there is no fluff or reasonable way to give them cobat Tactics.
I am Russ, I want to run away. I fall back. Land Raider follows me, tanks shocks, I fall back. I can't regruop because of the Land Raider. I run off board.
As for ATSKNF, that has 2 useas. The first is granting No Retreat instead of dying in a Sweeping Advance. The second is auto regrouping if under half strength. as most of them are fearless anyway, there is no need for this other than completeness.
However, the Rules for CT say that a non-fearless unit may fall back. Which is why Chaplains( him and his squad fearless, so he doesn't lose iot), having it is pointless.
AFAIK, the IW believe the Chaos Gods are simply a powerful Daemon form, and therefore are not worthy of worship. Others, mainly Word Bearers and Fanatics such as World Eaters and Emperor's Children, may ally with their Patriarch's Daemons, but IMO, the IW should not. Therefore, anything that counts as a Daemon, Ie, Possessed, Oblits, and Summoned Daemons, as well as possessed vehicles.
Daemon Princes are not included because they are Iron Warriors, and powerful leaders which the IW would respect, or pay the price otherwise. Similarly, Dreadnoughts are ancient heros, so would be tolerated.
I understand that your confusion may arise from his more Loyalist Wargear, but I made a slight edit to it to fix that. I add (Traitor) after his name
The Iron Warriors have a special relationship with the Obliterators and field more of them than any other legion. (3rd ed codex) so there's no reason why Pertuabo wouldn't have used them. They differed from the other legions in that their 'possessed' were actually normal marines using daemon powered machinery and armour to fight. They would have no problem with possessed vehicles for the same reason, but they don't summon daemons.
Ok, but I thought a limit on them all would be better than just a unit or 2 that has no use anyway. If Crudcakes could change that in thwe OP, or if it isn't there yet, I'll change it before you add it.
Hey, I think we should put a limit on using these Primarchs for those who want to use them in Battle.
Obvioulsy DA, BA and SW can only use their particular Primarch, but I think Codex SM should only be using one at a time. Also, I think we need 2 Dorns. One for Vanilla, and give him Vanilla Rules, and one for BT with their rules.
- The Daemon Blades are four poisoned swords which Fulgrim now uses. He gains 3 extra attacks (to 7) for having three additional CCWs rather than one. His attacks ignore armour saves and poison on a 2+
Special Rules: Primarch, Fearless, EW, Monstrous Creature, Fleet.
Avatar of Slaanesh: Fulgrim's Initiative can never be reduced, and he always strikes first in CC. It also grants a 3++ save.
Fuelled by Pain: For every attack against Fulgrim (whether stopped by his Invulnerable Save or not) he gains an attack after all other attacks in the combat against the unit or character which attacked him.
Aura of Pleasure: Units that flee combat from Fulgrim are instantly destroyed as their fear is replaced by daemonic whispers and a blade to the gut.
Dark Prince: Fulgrim is a psyker with the powers Lash of Submission, Warptime and Wind of Chaos. He can use two powers per turn, but must target the same unit if he uses Lash and Wind. He doesn't need to pass a test to use these powers.
Daemon Primarch: Fulgrim is a daemon for the purposes of any unit with advantages against them.
Hey, I think we should put a limit on using these Primarchs for those who want to use them in Battle.
Obvioulsy DA, BA and SW can only use their particular Primarch, but I think Codex SM should only be using one at a time. Also, I think we need 2 Dorns. One for Vanilla, and give him Vanilla Rules, and one for BT with their rules.
We don't need a Dorn specifically for BT, because I don't think they existed at his time, however, we should probably give him some BT rules, to show where they got it from. (?)
Hey, I think we should put a limit on using these Primarchs for those who want to use them in Battle.
Obvioulsy DA, BA and SW can only use their particular Primarch, but I think Codex SM should only be using one at a time. Also, I think we need 2 Dorns. One for Vanilla, and give him Vanilla Rules, and one for BT with their rules.
Sounds good, what are your ideas on the chaos primarch's because since chaos is unordered I was thinking that take Angron for example he can only be taken in an army with at least 1 squad of khorne berserkers and undivided primarch's don't have any restrictions.
- The Daemon Blades are four poisoned swords which Fulgrim now uses. He gains 3 extra attacks (to 7) for having three additional CCWs rather than one. His attacks ignore armour saves and poison on a 2+
Special Rules: Primarch, Fearless, EW, Monstrous Creature, Fleet.
Avatar of Slaanesh: Fulgrim's Initiative can never be reduced, and he always strikes first in CC. It also grants a 3++ save.
Fuelled by Pain: For every attack against Fulgrim (whether stopped by his Invulnerable Save or not) he gains an attack after all other attacks in the combat against the unit or character which attacked him.
Aura of Pleasure: Units that flee combat from Fulgrim are instantly destroyed as their fear is replaced by daemonic whispers and a blade to the gut.
Dark Prince: Fulgrim is a psyker with the powers Lash of Submission, Warptime and Wind of Chaos. He can use two powers per turn, but must target the same unit if he uses Lash and Wind. He doesn't need to pass a test to use these powers.
Daemon Primarch: Fulgrim is a daemon for the purposes of any unit with advantages against them.
Great rules for fulgrim but he might be too many points for what you've made him. give him some more rules.
Also I don't know if I want to start making daemon primarchs.
Well, I made a thread when I started herer on Dakka, with my custom rules for Primarchs, as if they were all reincarnated.
What I did was, that you must have no psykers and only Berserkers as troops to take Angron, only 1K sobns to take Magnus, only Plague Marines to take Mortarion, and only Noisers to take Fulgrim. For Lorgar he had the option of removing the 0-1 limit on either Summond lesser or Greater Daemons. so you could take 5 squads of Lessers, or 5 Greaters, or whatever, and gave them appropriat retinues.
Mortarion had the Death Wardens. Basically Manreaper armed Plaguemarines with +1 to everything and Termy armour.
Angron, I used the current, official ruleset, so he got Bloodthirsters, but they were compulsary.
Lorgar got the Gla Vorbak. I'll post them here now.
WsBs S T W I A LdSv Gal Vorbak 5 5 6 5 2 5 3 10 3+ Argel Tal 6 6 6 5 3 6 4 10 2+
Unit Type:Infantry Unit Composition 4 Gal Vorbak Argel Tal,The Crimson Lord Special Rules The Blessed Sons Fearless Feel No Pain Daemons The Gal Vorbek are Daemons and are treated as such. They have a 5++.
For all intents and purposes,the Gal Vorbak are treated as Possessed Chaos Space Marines. The First Heretics The Gal Vorbak may have two Possessed powers.If you get the same power,you may choose which one The Crimson Lord(Argel Tal only) Argel Tal may have 3 Possessed powers.These may be different to the others.Roll your three powers separately
They are lifted anyway in Apoc. Gk can ally with Daemons if you want. So you take Sanguinius with your BA force, the Leman Russ makes a one man SW army to ally, then The Lion joins in as a DA army.
WS 8
BS6
Str 6
T 6(7)
W 4
Int 6
A 4
Ld 10
Sv 2+ 4++
Wargear
Moonfang
This is a power weapon that inflicts ID on a to wound roll of 6.
Moonfable
This bike gives Khan the ability to run in the shooting phase, as well as being fleet. Furthermore, he may always move 6" faster than normall when assaulting or moving.
Ie, he may move up to 18", but not turbo boosting. He may turbo boost up to 30", getting a 3++ cover. He may assault 12".
Artificer Armour
Iron Halo
Special rules
ATSKNF Combat Tactics
Chapter Tactics( see Kor'sarro Khan)
Hit and Run
IC EW Acute Senses.
Lord of Hunters
The Great Khan is destined to be a hunter.
At the start iof the game, pick one Named Character. If your opponent does not have one, an IC will do, or a UC if you must.
Khan always hits and wounds this model on 2+.
Drive By slashing.
Unlike other units, Khan may move throuigh other units. if he moves through an enemy, he may make D3 CC attacks, and his squad, 1 each, though they hit on 6+, against them, although they may not strike back. if he turbo boosted, he may only hit on 6+, whiole his squad may not attack. If he does so, he may not run or shoot, but may assault that unit.
Wjhen I said that we need a BT Dorn, with their rules, it is because it isd unfair to say BT are not allowed to have him because they didn't exist back then.
Dorn 700pts
Ws 8
Bs 7
Str 7
T 7
W 5
IOnt 6
A 5
Ld 10
Sv 2+
Wargear
The Fist of Dorn
This is master crafted Thunderr Hamnmer that strikes at Str 10. It adds 1 to the damage chart.
Termanator Armour
Storm Shield
Iron Halo
Bolter
Special Ammo
Special Rules
ATSKNF Combat Tactics
Chapter Tactics( see Pedro Kantor)
Bolster Defenses
Siege Master
Dorn, and his unit have the Tank Hunters USR. Any uniot in the army can roll an addittional D3 when penetrating armour, but not if they have Melta Weapons, Lance Weapons, Ordnance, or have rending qweapons that rend that turn.
"No remorse, No Pity, No Fear
Any Vanillla Marines gain the Counter Attack, Furious Charge and Preferred Enemy Special Rules, Black Templar gain up to 3 Extra vows. In addition, their faith in their liege is such that they may gain an additonal rules, rolled on a D6 below. Roll for each unit seperatelly. The effects last the battle.
1-Furious Charge
2-FNP 3-Relentless
4-Tank hunters
5-6++ save, or +1 to existing Invulnerable, after all other saves applied.
6-EW and roll again.
"Abhor the Witch, destroy the witch"
An army weith Dorn may not have any psykers, other than Grey Knight Space Marines. Inquisitors, Mystics, and other, non Grey knight psykers may not be included. If an allied army includes a psyker, it will be tolerated, but if they suffer a perils of the Warp, or target an Imperial Fist/Black Templar unit with a powerr, or even scazttering blast markers, then Dorn will charge the enemy. Dorn and his unit will i9mmediately try and shoot and assault them. If this happens, Dorn and his unit can and must run after shooting, and gain fleet.
The Raven's Talons- These are a pair of master crafted Lightning Claws with the Rending rule. They grant an additional 1 strength. Once per game, Corax may energize his claws, making them Str 9 AP 1 for a turn. Once per each player turn, one roll to hit and one roll to wound may be re-rolled.
Armor of Deliverance - This suit of artificer armor grants a 2+ armor save and a 3+ invulnerable save. Also, Corax's vital signs are controlled and Once per each player turn, one armor save and one invulnerable save may be re-rolled.
Wings of Deliverance - This areo-tech jump harness grants Corax the Lord of Deliverance special rule. If Corax is alone, he may move and assault 12 inches each. When deepstriking, alone or attached to a squad, ignore the scatter results and place the models as if an accurate result was rolled.
Special Rules:
And They Shall Know No Fear, Independent Character, Eternal Warrior, Hit and Run, Furious Charge, Primarch.
The Lord of Deliverance - All infantry gain the Fleet special rule. All Jump Infantry gain the Fleet special rule, and may roll +1d6 and add that to their fleet rolls, and move the extra distance.
Tactical Genius - Reserves are extremely precise under Corax's command. Instead of rolling for reserves, the player may choose what arrives on each turn, what method it arrives with, and where it arrives. In addition, roll all deep strike rolls twice and choose the result you desire.
Primarch - When Corax is on the field, all Raven Guard units capable of leadership rolls may use his leadership for any leadership tests. When Corax is slain, remove him from the table and place an objective marker where he was. This marker is worth 3 objective points to the enemy but 1 to the Raven Guard.
Furthermore, when alone or attached to a jump infantry squad, and conducting a Death or Glory, may choose to move out of the path of the Tank and re-postion themselves within 12 inches of their original position, using deep strike rules as per Wings of Deliverance.
Okay, so there is the modified ruleset that I took from page one of the thread and tossed in what I thought were decent changes. I made some small tweaks to the statline, as well as a few specific things that I tried to carry over from fluff. I got rid of some rules that don't apply or are replaced by other special rules. Then there were the following things I tried to incorporate:
Tactical Genius: Corax is one, and in the fluff they show him always able to put the troops where they are needed. I tried to implement this in the reserve phase by giving the player the choice to deliver all reserves where they are needed, but did not want deepstrike outside of Corax to be super accurate. Corax himself is spot on with regards to deepstrike, but everyone else just gets "twin-linked" deepstriking.
Wargear: Yeah, it's all Deliverance themed (that's the planet that Corax is from, and it has a small mechanicus forge, so the Raven Guard is exceptionally well equipped). The wargear I gave him reflects this, as well as the fact that guns are never mentioned in the fluff. The only weapons Corax has (IIRC) are his claws. Also, the claws are regular power weapons, but it's mentioned once that he can "turbo-charge" them and cuts through a big metal door (I must find the fluff reference) so I made him able to slice a tank for a turn. His armor is exceptional and so he has the artificer armor and a better than captain invulnerable save. Also, due to Corax's skill with these tools, I gave him a "twin-linked" once per turn for his to-hit, to-wound, armor save, and invulnerable save to represent this skill. I did not want to give him Girlyman's re-roll 24/7 rule, as that would have been too much with the statline Corax has.
Also, Corax is stupid mobile in the fluff, and I may have gone overboard in trying to represent the tabletop. He moves 24" +2d6 if he is alone and 18" +2d6 if he is in an assault squad. Is this too much mobility? Also, how would this impact the vanguard veterans in an army? The one part of this I think I over did it on was the movement.
So there is my proposed Corax, along with some commentary as to why I did things and moved stuff around and took some special rules out.
And about the points: remember, a 700 point Primarch should have the same impact as 700 points of scouts. That's 70 bodies, complete with all the wargear you need to toss some face. Corax as he is above does not do this. Outside of himself, he makes reserves reliable and makes infantry faster. That's it. He's a faster, meaner Vanguard vet, with some re-rolls and a nice jump pack. He certainly is not worth the same as two superheavy tanks, or 3 land raiders. I dropped his points to 550, mostly because of this. Your reserves are going to be much more effective, but you have 300 less points to do it with. Huge advantage = huge handicap.
What does everybody think? Comments and criticism please. This is much more specific and powerful than the current Primarchs you have, but similar changes need to be made to them, too.
Now, I'm done. Rant over. Although I admit to fanboyism, I think this is a very good model and it's nothing that can't be beaten by any army with the equivalent amount of points. Strategy, proper deployment, and protection from the enemy are still necessary to get him to be effective.
I think its great i will put it on the first post and well see what the others think about it and remember a primarch is almost never overpowered. As for points i think 550 is fine.
The Raven's Talons- These are a pair of master crafted Lightning Claws with the Rending rule. They grant an additional 1 strength. Once per game, Corax may energize his claws, making them Str 9 AP 1 for a turn. Once per each player turn, one roll to hit and one roll to wound may be re-rolled.
Armor of Deliverance - This suit of artificer armor grants a 2+ armor save and a 3+ invulnerable save. Also, Corax's vital signs are controlled and Once per each player turn, one armor save and one invulnerable save may be re-rolled.
Wings of Deliverance - This areo-tech jump harness grants Corax the Lord of Deliverance special rule. If Corax is alone, he may move and assault 12 inches each. When deepstriking, alone or attached to a squad, ignore the scatter results and place the models as if an accurate result was rolled.
Special Rules:
And They Shall Know No Fear, Independent Character, Eternal Warrior, Hit and Run, Furious Charge, Primarch.
The Lord of Deliverance - All infantry gain the Fleet special rule. All Jump Infantry gain the Fleet special rule, and may roll +1d6 and add that to their fleet rolls, and move the extra distance.
Tactical Genius - Reserves are extremely precise under Corax's command. Instead of rolling for reserves, the player may choose what arrives on each turn, what method it arrives with, and where it arrives. In addition, roll all deep strike rolls twice and choose the result you desire.
Primarch - When Corax is on the field, all Raven Guard units capable of leadership rolls may use his leadership for any leadership tests. When Corax is slain, remove him from the table and place an objective marker where he was. This marker is worth 3 objective points to the enemy but 1 to the Raven Guard.
Furthermore, when alone or attached to a jump infantry squad, and conducting a Death or Glory, may choose to move out of the path of the Tank and re-postion themselves within 12 inches of their original position, using deep strike rules as per Wings of Deliverance.
Okay, so there is the modified ruleset that I took from page one of the thread and tossed in what I thought were decent changes. I made some small tweaks to the statline, as well as a few specific things that I tried to carry over from fluff. I got rid of some rules that don't apply or are replaced by other special rules. Then there were the following things I tried to incorporate:
Tactical Genius: Corax is one, and in the fluff they show him always able to put the troops where they are needed. I tried to implement this in the reserve phase by giving the player the choice to deliver all reserves where they are needed, but did not want deepstrike outside of Corax to be super accurate. Corax himself is spot on with regards to deepstrike, but everyone else just gets "twin-linked" deepstriking.
Wargear: Yeah, it's all Deliverance themed (that's the planet that Corax is from, and it has a small mechanicus forge, so the Raven Guard is exceptionally well equipped). The wargear I gave him reflects this, as well as the fact that guns are never mentioned in the fluff. The only weapons Corax has (IIRC) are his claws. Also, the claws are regular power weapons, but it's mentioned once that he can "turbo-charge" them and cuts through a big metal door (I must find the fluff reference) so I made him able to slice a tank for a turn. His armor is exceptional and so he has the artificer armor and a better than captain invulnerable save. Also, due to Corax's skill with these tools, I gave him a "twin-linked" once per turn for his to-hit, to-wound, armor save, and invulnerable save to represent this skill. I did not want to give him Girlyman's re-roll 24/7 rule, as that would have been too much with the statline Corax has.
Also, Corax is stupid mobile in the fluff, and I may have gone overboard in trying to represent the tabletop. He moves 24" +2d6 if he is alone and 18" +2d6 if he is in an assault squad. Is this too much mobility? Also, how would this impact the vanguard veterans in an army? The one part of this I think I over did it on was the movement.
So there is my proposed Corax, along with some commentary as to why I did things and moved stuff around and took some special rules out.
And about the points: remember, a 700 point Primarch should have the same impact as 700 points of scouts. That's 70 bodies, complete with all the wargear you need to toss some face. Corax as he is above does not do this. Outside of himself, he makes reserves reliable and makes infantry faster. That's it. He's a faster, meaner Vanguard vet, with some re-rolls and a nice jump pack. He certainly is not worth the same as two superheavy tanks, or 3 land raiders. I dropped his points to 550, mostly because of this. Your reserves are going to be much more effective, but you have 300 less points to do it with. Huge advantage = huge handicap.
What does everybody think? Comments and criticism please. This is much more specific and powerful than the current Primarchs you have, but similar changes need to be made to them, too.
Now, I'm done. Rant over. Although I admit to fanboyism, I think this is a very good model and it's nothing that can't be beaten by any army with the equivalent amount of points. Strategy, proper deployment, and protection from the enemy are still necessary to get him to be effective.
I would say 650 would be the MINIMUM points for this, for 2 reasons, 1, he makes you whole army fleet, and jump infantry SUPER fleet (Though I really like this rule, I think you should decrease it to d3, not d6, and his tactical genius rule. My Mortarion primarch is 500 points and is NOTHING compared to the Corax, I also think you should drop his initiative to 7, there is no way he is just below Lelith Hesperax, he is COMPLETELY unarmoured, and has trained basically her whole life in Arena combat, and is a space elf... I7 is as fast as possible as a power armoured person should be able to go.
While I see your point, bear in mind that these are Primarchs. Marines, exceptionally strong, struggled to hold Forgebreaker, yet Ferrur Manus and Fulgrim held it as if it was nothing
Automatically Appended Next Post: While I see your point, bear in mind that these are Primarchs. Marines, exceptionally strong, struggled to hold Forgebreaker, yet Ferrur Manus and Fulgrim held it as if it was nothing
Wargear: Protector of Angels, Angelic Wings, Heaven's Fury, Blade of Wrath
Protector of Angels: A suit of artificer that grants an additional 3+ inv save
Angelic Wings: Sanguinius counts as jump infantry. Furthermore, he may rrroll failed dangerous terrain tests
Heaven's Fury: a Master Crafted Infernus Pistol
Blade of Wrath: A power weapon that reduces all characteristics of the enemy who is locked in combat with Sanguinius by 2, to a minimum of 1
Special Rules
Combat Tactics, Fearless
Tactical Precision Sanguinius and any unit with the DoA rule that he joins does not scatter when Deep striking.
For a start, BS 5 seems FAR too low for a Primarch, maybe other than Magnus with his 1 eye, but even then he could use forsight to make corrections.
Secondly, he either has Int 5 or 5 attacks, but he is missing a Characteristic.
Secondly, I think he should ignore Dangerous terrain altogether. His size, as well as his skill, would stop him getting a stubbed toe when flying off a building.
The Raven's Talons- These are a pair of master crafted Lightning Claws with the Rending rule. They grant an additional 1 strength. Once per game, Corax may energize his claws, making them Str 9 AP 1 for a turn. Once per each player turn, one roll to hit and one roll to wound may be re-rolled.
Armor of Deliverance - This suit of artificer armor grants a 2+ armor save and a 3+ invulnerable save. Also, Corax's vital signs are controlled and Once per each player turn, one armor save and one invulnerable save may be re-rolled.
Wings of Deliverance - This areo-tech jump harness grants Corax the Lord of Deliverance special rule. If Corax is alone, he may move and assault 12 inches each. When deepstriking, alone or attached to a squad, ignore the scatter results and place the models as if an accurate result was rolled.
Special Rules:
And They Shall Know No Fear, Independent Character, Eternal Warrior, Hit and Run, Furious Charge, Primarch.
The Lord of Deliverance - All infantry gain the Fleet special rule. All Jump Infantry gain the Fleet special rule, and may roll +1d6 and add that to their fleet rolls, and move the extra distance.
Tactical Genius - Reserves are extremely precise under Corax's command. Instead of rolling for reserves, the player may choose what arrives on each turn, what method it arrives with, and where it arrives. In addition, roll all deep strike rolls twice and choose the result you desire.
Primarch - When Corax is on the field, all Raven Guard units capable of leadership rolls may use his leadership for any leadership tests. When Corax is slain, remove him from the table and place an objective marker where he was. This marker is worth 3 objective points to the enemy but 1 to the Raven Guard.
Furthermore, when alone or attached to a jump infantry squad, and conducting a Death or Glory, may choose to move out of the path of the Tank and re-postion themselves within 12 inches of their original position, using deep strike rules as per Wings of Deliverance.
Okay, so there is the modified ruleset that I took from page one of the thread and tossed in what I thought were decent changes. I made some small tweaks to the statline, as well as a few specific things that I tried to carry over from fluff. I got rid of some rules that don't apply or are replaced by other special rules. Then there were the following things I tried to incorporate:
Tactical Genius: Corax is one, and in the fluff they show him always able to put the troops where they are needed. I tried to implement this in the reserve phase by giving the player the choice to deliver all reserves where they are needed, but did not want deepstrike outside of Corax to be super accurate. Corax himself is spot on with regards to deepstrike, but everyone else just gets "twin-linked" deepstriking.
Wargear: Yeah, it's all Deliverance themed (that's the planet that Corax is from, and it has a small mechanicus forge, so the Raven Guard is exceptionally well equipped). The wargear I gave him reflects this, as well as the fact that guns are never mentioned in the fluff. The only weapons Corax has (IIRC) are his claws. Also, the claws are regular power weapons, but it's mentioned once that he can "turbo-charge" them and cuts through a big metal door (I must find the fluff reference) so I made him able to slice a tank for a turn. His armor is exceptional and so he has the artificer armor and a better than captain invulnerable save. Also, due to Corax's skill with these tools, I gave him a "twin-linked" once per turn for his to-hit, to-wound, armor save, and invulnerable save to represent this skill. I did not want to give him Girlyman's re-roll 24/7 rule, as that would have been too much with the statline Corax has.
Also, Corax is stupid mobile in the fluff, and I may have gone overboard in trying to represent the tabletop. He moves 24" +2d6 if he is alone and 18" +2d6 if he is in an assault squad. Is this too much mobility? Also, how would this impact the vanguard veterans in an army? The one part of this I think I over did it on was the movement.
So there is my proposed Corax, along with some commentary as to why I did things and moved stuff around and took some special rules out.
And about the points: remember, a 700 point Primarch should have the same impact as 700 points of scouts. That's 70 bodies, complete with all the wargear you need to toss some face. Corax as he is above does not do this. Outside of himself, he makes reserves reliable and makes infantry faster. That's it. He's a faster, meaner Vanguard vet, with some re-rolls and a nice jump pack. He certainly is not worth the same as two superheavy tanks, or 3 land raiders. I dropped his points to 550, mostly because of this. Your reserves are going to be much more effective, but you have 300 less points to do it with. Huge advantage = huge handicap.
What does everybody think? Comments and criticism please. This is much more specific and powerful than the current Primarchs you have, but similar changes need to be made to them, too.
Now, I'm done. Rant over. Although I admit to fanboyism, I think this is a very good model and it's nothing that can't be beaten by any army with the equivalent amount of points. Strategy, proper deployment, and protection from the enemy are still necessary to get him to be effective.
Why would his LCs have an AP? Also, how come he can make reserves magically appear? If you have tons of deep strikers they would probably be bang on target and arrive on turn 2.
For a start, BS 5 seems FAR too low for a Primarch, maybe other than Magnus with his 1 eye, but even then he could use forsight to make corrections.
Secondly, he either has Int 5 or 5 attacks, but he is missing a Characteristic.
Secondly, I think he should ignore Dangerous terrain altogether. His size, as well as his skill, would stop him getting a stubbed toe when flying off a building.
Is there any qualities this ruleset has that the other one does not?
Combat Tactics, which he shouldn't. Combat Tactics is Gulliman's warstyle, no one elses. the only reason that IF/CF/Sallies/White Scars etc have it, is for Chapter Tactics.
He has that sword, which I dislike. I think that Spear of Telesto is better, although I am not sure what a Singing Spear does.
Crudcakes, could you please fix that entry on the first post on Sanguinius' Spear of Telesto to say that it adds 1 to the damage chart, rather than AP 1, as Blap is completely correct.
Sorry, mixed it all up. Singing Spears are like witchblades in CC, but they can be thrown. 12" range, same str as in CC, AP6 and assault 1. Also they're 2 handed
They also wound on a 2+ for infantry.
I really think this is overkill. Attacks from a CC legend combined with furious charge, a Tank buster weapon along with a poisoned power weapon? This guy could probably take down a Baneblade in a single turn.
I think he should have heroic intervention.
Crudcakes, could you please fix that entry on the first post on Sanguinius' Spear of Telesto to say that it adds 1 to the damage chart, rather than AP 1, as Blap is completely correct.
Sure
In response to other posts above this, primarchs should be able to take out baneblades in one turn.
Blap if you could think of some things you could add to the current sanguinius ruleset, we would like to hear it.
The obsidian Chariot is a dedicated Transport for Vulkan and 1 unit that he joins. The Chariot has a trasnport capacity of 10+Vulkan.. It must start the game with Vulkan and up to one unit embarked, or empty, but it may not start the game with unit embarked if Vulkan isn't.
300pts AV 14/14/14
BS 5
Special Rules Assault Vehicle
Tempermental Machine Spirit.
If a unit is embarked, but Vulkan isn't, then it may become angry. Roll a D6 every movement phase. on a 1-2 nothing happens. on a 3-5 the passengers may not disembark and the vehicle immediatly fires a weapon at the nearest target, friendly or enemy, not including Vulkan and his unit. This does not follow the normal rules for shooting, and other unitsd may move as normal. Alternatively, the Vehicle may immdiately move 12+D6" straight forward, tank shocking and ramming all units in the way.On a 6, then the unit is burnt by the heat inside. The embarked unit takes 2D6Str 5, AP 4 hits.
Power of the Macine Spirit. This may not be used if Tempermental Macine Spirit forces it to fire.
Magma's Child. The Obsidion Chariot only takes D6+Str when melta weapons firwe upon it. in additon, Lava and fire features are clear terrain to the Chariot, even if the wopuld normally be impassable.
Access Points 2 each side, 1 at front.
Wargear 2 Sponson Mounted Flamedrake Cannons Range StrAP Tpye Template 7 4 Heavy 1
Heavenly Fury: On the turn he deep strikes, Sanguinius may launch an assault rather than shooting. When he does this, the enemy unit's initiative drops to 1, he gains D6 attacks and all attacks are resolved as if they were caused by a thunder hammer at normal initiative. These effects are relinquished after this turn.
I think this would represent him dropping onto an unsuspecting enemy unit with all his force, catching them unawares and stunning them.
Deadshot wrote:I think Fulgrim should have his Laeran Blade as a Daemon Weapopn, and be given a Mark of Slaanesh. Just more fluffy.
It was untended to represent him at the time he got the Laeran blade. Hence, he wouldn't be using the Laeran blade as a daemon weapon, and he wouldn't be worshipping Slaanesh. He was a daemon by the time his body was truly Slaanesh worshipping.
Very good. I think you should do a translation under neath, maybe in Italics.
Any way, how about this
The Great Wolves
The Great Wolves are 5 Wolf Guard Battle Leaders. They may be armed with any equipment and weapons. They have Mark of the Wulfen, a Thunderwolf mount, a Belt of Russ and Terminator Armour. They must have these upgrades. Note thast they must still have at least 1 wargear option different, as per the HQ rules in Codex:SW.
The Lion Blade- This is a master Crafted Power Weapon that gives +1 str. if you roll a 6 to wound with this Plasma infused sword, the opponent must reduce his Armour Save by 1 untill the end off the following Player turn. However, if a 1 to wound is rolled, Lion must take a wound with no armour saves allowed, as the massive flux of Plasma discharges in his face.
Plasma Blaster- this is a plasma weapon with the following profile.
Range- 24 /Str- 7 /AP- 2 /Type- Assault 2, Gets Hot!
Artificer Armour
The Hide of the Lion- Taken from the lion he killed on Caliban, the impenatrble hide gives him a 3++ save.
Special Rules
ATSKNF, IC, EW, Acute Senses, Furious Charge
Beast hunter- The Lion and any squad he has joined gain the Prefered Enemy (Beasts and Cavalry), USR.
The Lion and The Wolf- Such is the kinship between Leman Russ and The Lion, that you may include a single unit of Wolf Guard from Codex: Space Wolves, in your army.
So bad in so many ways... This is my edit:
Lion'el Johnson, Dark Angels Primarch:---------------------- 750pts
WS 8 - BS 7 - S 6 - T 5(7) - W 5 - I 6 - A 5 - Ld 10 - Sv 2+/3++
Wargear:
Bolt Pistol, Frag and Krak Grenades
The Lion Sword: This is a Master-crafted Power Weapon that wounds on a 3+
Armour of Caliban: This grants a 2+ Armour save and a 3++ Invunerable save. It also adds 2 points onto his toughness.
Rivalry is a lot more fluffy, but I'd have it as them being unable to fight in the same CC or something. It's not a disadvantage to lose leadership when the entire army has ATSKNF anyway, and not liking your ally is no reason to run from your foe.
Rivalry: If Lion'el and Leman Russ are in the same team, any units from Codex: DA and Codex: SW have to roll a leadership test if they declare they will charge into the same CC. 2 situations will arise from this: If they both pass or the amount of fails are equal, they carry on charging into combat. If one or more are failed, however, you have to count the failed tests. The side which has the most failed tests cannot charge. If you fail all tests, the units will charge, but for that turn they lose ATSKNF. You have to roll for each turn in combat with 2 units from different codexes, and if a unit fails, they must break from the combat, as if they used Hit and Run
Or you could just say that characters from each dex can never join a unit from another, and they do not benefit from each others banners, psychic powers, other buffs ETC..
Crudcakes, could I ask you to leave the other one up, for those that want it?
Automatically Appended Next Post: Univeral upgrades
Exterminatus.
This may be used like an Orbital Bombardment.
+75pts Fusion Torpedo
Str 10 AP 1 7" blast, rolls Str 10+3D6 vs Vehicles. 4D6 under Central Hole.
+100pts Virus Bomb
Str 8 AP 2 5" blast
Models under the Template must pass a T test at -1 T, and if they fail they must count their Sv as - for the game. Vehicles reduce their AV by 1 for each roll of 4+ on 6D6. They are also poisoned 3+, but may reroll all failed.
Lord Magnus wrote:Aren't virus bombs in fluff devastating? They usually seem to just wreck stuff, as you portray them I don't see them as even being fatal...
Sorry i have not been able to post for a while but i like the universal upgrades.
just to recap do you want me to keep the rivalry like this?
The Lion and The Wolf- Such is the kinship between Leman Russ and The Lion, that you may include a single unit of Wolf Guard from Codex: Space Wolves, in your army.
or characters from each dex can never join a unit from another, and they do not benefit from each others banners, psychic powers, other buffs ETC..
I want tyou to keep my version, the first one, the way it is, and do Blap's Version seperately, like you have done with Corax and Mortarion, so people can choose which one they want.
And yes I do want the single unit of wolf Guard. Could you also add in these rules.
"....a single unit of Wolf Guard from Codex: SW in your army as an Elites choice. They may not split up to lead other units in this case. These Wolf Guard do not benefit from anything the DA have, such as Banners and Special Rules granting extra atacks, and vice versa. No DAIC may join the Wolf Guard unit, and they may embark on a DA vehicle."
With this kind of thing, I would love to make stats for people like the Eldar's solataire, of maybe the Harlequin god Ceogorach, any ideas, anyone o3o?
I mean seriously, a bloodthirster is better than him.
