Thinking of starting up an army soon, love the Grey Knights and their general look, though find it boring that they're so "holier than though" and can't be corrupted.
So I'm going to corrupt them.
General idea fluff wise is:
Inquisitor gets demon relic-> Relic corrupts-> Eventually he and his Grey Knight bodyguards are worshiping the lord of excess (this is a heavily watered down explanation of course)
Aside from the obvious things, like color and Slaanesh symbols, what would do you think would be good for this sort of army? Was considering getting a collection of demon-knight looking mini's to act as crusaders for my Inquisitors retinue, and hoping to get ahold of some older Daemonette figures for decoration/possible retinue (I hate the new ones.... blegh).
I would like to preface this by saying "it is your models, and your hobby. You can do whatever you like"
That being said, according to the Current Fluff, what you just described would not happen.
Grey Knights were built and designed to be resistant to Chaos and its corruption.
Their Genesead was chosen from those Marines who had proven themselves to be resistant to Chaotic Influences. (ie, marines who stayed loyal to the emperor even though their legion joined Horus) Their Equipment is designed to repel and disrupt chaos forces. Their armor is full of wards designed to resist or repel Chaos. Their training is all build around killing, repelling, and banishing daemons.
It also states in the Grey Knight codex that "no GK has even fallen to chaos". (some may have been tempted, but were probably killed by their brothers before anything could happen)
THAT ALSO BEING SAID
Grey Knights are NOT "good guys". They are bastards. They will kill innocent people, kill the people who helped them, burn worlds, and use whatever means needed to get rid of Chaos.
Also, Grey Knights Will work with "Radical Inquisitors" (those inquisitors who use daemons to fight other daemons)
=================================================
If you want to stick within the fluff, but still want Chaotic GK, there are two ways you could go that I see.
OPTION 1.
The Inquisitor and his Human Companions go over to Slaanesh (to some extent). The GK bodyguard with him go along with it as the inquisitor is very talented, and for the most part is still helping the Imperium. They GK are simply using him while he is still useful, but are waiting for the time when he goes over the line to kill him.
[use the GK book. Model the inquisitor and retinue as Slaanesh people, but the GK are the normal color scheme]
OPTION 2
the Inquisitor was Ordo Xenos, and his bodyguard is a contingent of Deathwatch Marines. They get corrupted and ALL go over to Slaanesh. This gives the Deathwatch Marines new powers (fluff reason for them to have Force Weapons, Psy Powers, ect.)
[Use the GK book. Don't use GK models as the basis for the Deathwatch Marines, but use something else. probably some combination of normal and chaos marines]
[note: You should also realize that "Chaos Grey Knights" are one of those things that people nerd rage over. Just like Female Space Marines. ]
I don't understand why everyone wants to play chaos Grey Knights.
You know what, I could say a bunch of things about 'ignoring the fluff', and 'so original and unique', but they're your models. Just be prepared to get some sideways glances at the store if you start telling people your GK worship Slaanesh.
Please God no. Chaos Grey Knights are quite possibly one of the worst fan made fluff ideas ever made, along with Loyalist descendants of Traitor Legions and female Space Marines.
kronk wrote:You army is a bad idea and you should feel bad.
But paint them how you want. I'll still play you.
Pretty much this.
Also, add me to the list of people who don't get why so many want to play corrupted Grey Knights. If you want the rules but not the fluff, just make a counts-as Thousand Sons list.
It means don't waste my time, stop it now. Chaos Grey knights are impossible like George Lucus releasing the pure non edited Star Wars films, its a bad idea.
Hey guys. If you are wondering about a fluff explanation...
Fabius Bile, after witnessing the Grey Knights in action, decides that they are rather amusing. And commences creation of another strand of "enhanced chaos space marines" more capable in psychic might.
In Chaos' eternal mockery of the Imperium, Bile's "Black Knights" wear armor reminiscent of the Elite Chapter of Marines they were inspired from.
there are plenty of ways to get chaos grey knights .
Also they would just be a corrupted GK army which uses the GK rules. Same way people make traitor guard armies using the IG codex.
Sweet lord, if I knew this would be met so harshly I wouldn't have made the post!
Look, I like the look of the Grey Knights (dem helmets), I like that they're a cheaper army to make so that people with tighter wallets have an easier time to start them. I also like Chaos but don't care for how it's so much more expensive and, quite frankly, broken on both counts (Beasts and Marines). I also thought that the "LOL, all those bad things about Chaos? Yeah, they don't apply to us, ever. We can't be swayed in the least." was just... poor writing.
I like the Death Watch idea though, but, what will people think when I walk in, lay down my marines and go "counts as Grey Knights"?
I had no intention of mixing rules, was going to stick completly to the codex. Nor did I want to be some "special snowflake". It's a wargame with a ton of fluff, there should be some room for doing what you want. Not every GK has to be a knight in shiny silver armor.
Ulthanashville wrote:People field pre-heresy space marine armies and nobody bats an eyelid.
Since Imperial Armour 10 was released, I've seen several armies based on chapters from the Badab war - some of which are extinct.
Hell, eldar players still use Eldrad and guess what - Eldrad's DEAD! And I bet you he'll be in the next codex too!
But the grey knights turning to Slaanesh? HERESY!
Do whatever you like Namica. It's your money.
Yeah, and I was hoping for ideas rather than "Don't do that!"
Well you did ask from a fluff perspective. Chaos Grey Knights of any sort are out, it's simply not possible. Like many people have said though, this is just a forum, I'd have no qualms playing any army that came my way regardless of concept. I may not be happy about the fluff, but I wouldn't cause an issue at all.
Ulthanashville wrote:People field pre-heresy space marine armies and nobody bats an eyelid.
Since Imperial Armour 10 was released, I've seen several armies based on chapters from the Badab war - some of which are extinct.
Hell, eldar players still use Eldrad and guess what - Eldrad's DEAD! And I bet you he'll be in the next codex too!
But the grey knights turning to Slaanesh? HERESY!
Do whatever you like Namica. It's your money.
Yeah, and I was hoping for ideas rather than "Don't do that!"
In fairness it's not that the army wouldn't look awesme (because it probably would) it's that any and all fluff justifications for it are stupid.
If you do the army then fine but the fluff part is usually full of epic failure...
A Grey Knight Descendant chapter was formed in the 21st founding, better known as the Dark Founding. Every chapter from that founding has come to a horrible end, and these marines are no exception; a slight, undetected mutation in their Gene-Seed meant these Knights were far more vulnerable to Chaos than their patron chapter, and soon enough, they fell to the whispers of Slannesh
Well if you feel like a bit of a kitbash, I think the grey knights and noise marines aesthetics would be interesting to see blended together. The Emperor's Children lord model has a backpack that definitely screams chaos. It's the little things that set armies apart. At the same time you probably don't want to deviate too far from the knight look. They just need to look DARKER. Think of the archetypal black knight with glowing red eyes wearing spiky armour. Then add a twist here and there. Do a few google image searches of relevant subjects and flick through, see what catches your eye.
Your Friend Doctor Robert wrote:A Grey Knight Descendant chapter was formed in the 21st founding, better known as the Dark Founding. Every chapter from that founding has come to a horrible end, and these marines are no exception; a slight, undetected mutation in their Gene-Seed meant these Knights were far more vulnerable to Chaos than their patron chapter, and soon enough, they fell to the whispers of Slannesh
AFAIK just saying a chapter is a GK descendant is pretty bad.
Exorcists don't count.
If you ask anyone what would be the lamest idea for an army, the majority would answer Chaos Grey Knights immediately, followed on the ranks by Chaos Eldar, Chaos Tau, boob themed Sororitas, female Marines and any army painted PINK (muahaha). If you ask anyone what he knows about Grey Knights, the majority would answer "noone has ever fallen to Chaos".
It is a common phenomenon among young teens to take the purest character class in a game and make a naughty naughty version of it, thinking that they are the first to have this idea (I call it the "paladin syndrome"). WoW couldn't deny this demand by its young gamers and created the evil paladin class "Dark Knights".
You can do with your army what you want, but don't expect universal acceptance or a price for originality.
I say go for it. As long as your opponent knows what list you're using he can feth himself if he doesn't find your army fluff enough. That being said, the 21st founding is a good way of having Chaos GK... there is nothing in the fluff that says there wasn't an attempt to make another GK chapter during the 21st founding. And there is no official record of how many chapters were created during the 21st, either. It's entirely plausible to assume anyone involved with a GK decendant chapter that turned to Chaos would have been extra-purged to hide the GKs shameful, shameful secret. Heck, the GK themselves might not even know of the traitor chapter at all.
And if GKs are incorruptible, why did they need to slaughter Sisters and bathe in their blood to avoid being corrupted by Chaos? Sounds rather Khorne-y to me... Frankly, I think you should ditch the Slaanesh idea (much as I love Slaanesh) and go with Khorne GKs. After all, there's fluff to support it in the GK codex...
squidhills wrote:I say go for it. As long as your opponent knows what list you're using he can feth himself if he doesn't find your army fluff enough. That being said, the 21st founding is a good way of having Chaos GK... there is nothing in the fluff that says there wasn't an attempt to make another GK chapter during the 21st founding. And there is no official record of how many chapters were created during the 21st, either. It's entirely plausible to assume anyone involved with a GK decendant chapter that turned to Chaos would have been extra-purged to hide the GKs shameful, shameful secret. Heck, the GK themselves might not even know of the traitor chapter at all.
Yeah, go with that. It's improbable, considering the nature of the progenitor, but it's not against fluff AFAIK.
And if GKs are incorruptible, why did they need to slaughter Sisters and bathe in their blood to avoid being corrupted by Chaos? Sounds rather Khorne-y to me... Frankly, I think you should ditch the Slaanesh idea (much as I love Slaanesh) and go with Khorne GKs. After all, there's fluff to support it in the GK codex...
This bit is wrong through. I suggest you go back and read the dex. It outright states on page 4 that they're immune to corruption.
iproxtaco wrote:Grey Knights cannot be corrupted by Chaos. At all. They can't be tricked into worshiping Chaos, or working for Chaos.
iproxtaco wrote:/quote]
This bit is wrong through. I suggest you go back and read the dex. It outright states on page 4 that they're immune to corruption.
Then why did they have to slaughter and paint their armor with the blood of the Sisters? That little fluff bit by ward opens a back door loop hole for you to exploit, because they had to sanctify their armor to resist chaos, that means they have to protect themselves from chaos, which means they can be corrupted by chaos. For if they were immune, they wouldnt need the extra protection from the sisters blood.
iproxtaco wrote:Grey Knights cannot be corrupted by Chaos. At all. They can't be tricked into worshiping Chaos, or working for Chaos.
iproxtaco wrote:/quote]
This bit is wrong through. I suggest you go back and read the dex. It outright states on page 4 that they're immune to corruption.
Then why did they have to slaughter and paint their armor with the blood of the Sisters? That little fluff bit by ward opens a back door loop hole for you to exploit, because they had to sanctify their armor to resist chaos, that means they have to protect themselves from chaos, which means they can be corrupted by chaos.
Maybe the blood kept them safe from the Bloodtide from simply killing them instead?
iproxtaco wrote:Grey Knights cannot be corrupted by Chaos. At all. They can't be tricked into worshiping Chaos, or working for Chaos.
iproxtaco wrote:/quote]
This bit is wrong through. I suggest you go back and read the dex. It outright states on page 4 that they're immune to corruption.
Then why did they have to slaughter and paint their armor with the blood of the Sisters? That little fluff bit by ward opens a back door loop hole for you to exploit, because they had to sanctify their armor to resist chaos, that means they have to protect themselves from chaos, which means they can be corrupted by chaos. For if they were immune, they wouldnt need the extra protection from the sisters blood.
Just because they are incorruptible doesn't mean they cannot be hurt/killed by daemonic/chaotic influence. The ritual wasn't undertaken for spiritual purity, it was for physical protection.
No. It states they needed a tailismen to protect from the bloodtides taint. And it shielded them from the corruption. Exact quotes is "So shielded, the Grey Knights are able to stride through the goreflood without risk of Corruption" Pg. 15.
Not, without risk from harm, but from corruption. Meaning they can be corrupted.
iproxtaco wrote:Grey Knights cannot be corrupted by Chaos. At all. They can't be tricked into worshiping Chaos, or working for Chaos.
iproxtaco wrote:/quote] This bit is wrong through. I suggest you go back and read the dex. It outright states on page 4 that they're immune to corruption.
Then why did they have to slaughter and paint their armor with the blood of the Sisters? That little fluff bit by ward opens a back door loop hole for you to exploit, because they had to sanctify their armor to resist chaos, that means they have to protect themselves from chaos, which means they can be corrupted by chaos. For if they were immune, they wouldnt need the extra protection from the sisters blood.
Yeah, Chaos does more than just corrupt you into doing what it wants. The description of the Bloodtide was minimal, which doesn't help, but it still caused physical effects, ie. causing you to turn flying rodent gak insane and attack anyone around you in rage, or, cause you to explode in a shower of gore. If the Grey Knights were immune to things like this they wouldn't need to go in with crazy psychic swords. The physical side of Chaos still effects them, they can still be chopped in half by a Blooletter, or poisoned by Nurgles diseases, but the cannot turn to Chaos or serve it in any way.
No good sir, they are incorruptible. According to pg 5. Yet need protection from corruption. Interesting. I smell a conspiracy. That Grey Knight can fall to chaos and that the inquisition is covering it *BLAM*
ObliviousBlueCaboose wrote:No good sir, they are incorruptible. According to pg 5. Yet need protection from corruption. Interesting. I smell a conspiracy. That Grey Knight can fall to chaos and that the inquisition is covering it *BLAM*
Or, you could go with what I've said, and spare your poor brain. Anyway, the full quote would be appreciated, because it doesn't just say "they are incorruptible".
"They are the Emperor's final boon to Mankind, an army of unfaltering and INCORRUPTIBLE warriors of forgotten science."
It all makes sense now, the guy carrying a deamon blade, deamonhosts are now allowed in their armies. Why they kill anyone who witnesses them "killing" daemons. Why drago is alive in the warp. It is now perfectly clear.
Spoiler:
Soylent green is people!
The entire chapter has fallen to chaos, and is a mole. They make deals with the deamon to make it look like they are defending the IoM when really they are plotting against it. As soon as Tzeech gives the word their going to attack Holy Terra.
iproxtaco wrote:Grey Knights cannot be corrupted by Chaos. At all. They can't be tricked into worshiping Chaos, or working for Chaos.
iproxtaco wrote:/quote]
This bit is wrong through. I suggest you go back and read the dex. It outright states on page 4 that they're immune to corruption.
Then why did they have to slaughter and paint their armor with the blood of the Sisters? That little fluff bit by ward opens a back door loop hole for you to exploit, because they had to sanctify their armor to resist chaos, that means they have to protect themselves from chaos, which means they can be corrupted by chaos. For if they were immune, they wouldnt need the extra protection from the sisters blood.
Yeah, Chaos does more than just corrupt you into doing what it wants. The description of the Bloodtide was minimal, which doesn't help, but it still caused physical effects, ie. causing you to turn flying rodent gak insane and attack anyone around you in rage, or, cause you to explode in a shower of gore. If the Grey Knights were immune to things like this they wouldn't need to go in with crazy psychic swords. The physical side of Chaos still effects them, they can still be chopped in half by a Blooletter, or poisoned by Nurgles diseases, but the cannot turn to Chaos or serve it in any way.
Also, they used the Sororitas blood in a mixture which they then anointed their armor and weapons with. They didn't paint their armor with fresh blood or anything like that.
I'd imagine that, needing quantities of blood that small, they asked the Sisters of Battle to draw and donate some of their blood to them. The Sororitas definitely agreed, and together they went and defeated the daemon or whatever, and the Sororitas went back to their Order, and there was much rejoicing.
ObliviousBlueCaboose wrote:"They are the Emperor's final boon to Mankind, an army of unfaltering and INCORRUPTIBLE warriors of forgotten science."
It all makes sense now, the guy carrying a deamon blade, deamonhosts are now allowed in their armies. Why they kill anyone who witnesses them "killing" daemons. Why drago is alive in the warp. It is now perfectly clear.
Spoiler:
Soylent green is people!
The entire chapter has fallen to chaos, and is a mole. They make deals with the deamon to make it look like they are defending the IoM when really they are plotting against it. As soon as Tzeech gives the word their going to attack Holy Terra.
actually pouncy it says that their first act was to turn their blades (which means kill) on the sisters. And all jokes aside. Corrupted Grey Knights are possible thanks to matt ward.
akaean wrote:Hey guys. If you are wondering about a fluff explanation...
Fabius Bile, after witnessing the Grey Knights in action, decides that they are rather amusing. And commences creation of another strand of "enhanced chaos space marines" more capable in psychic might.
In Chaos' eternal mockery of the Imperium, Bile's "Black Knights" wear armor reminiscent of the Elite Chapter of Marines they were inspired from.
there are plenty of ways to get chaos grey knights .
Also they would just be a corrupted GK army which uses the GK rules. Same way people make traitor guard armies using the IG codex.
I feel this idea is particularly good. It isn't exactly Grey Knights fallen to chaos, but rather, er... Chaos answer to Grey Knights.
I might in fact but Grey Knights, paint them black, call them Black Knights and use them as Thousand Sons...
ObliviousBlueCaboose wrote:"They are the Emperor's final boon to Mankind, an army of unfaltering and INCORRUPTIBLE warriors of forgotten science."
It all makes sense now, the guy carrying a deamon blade, deamonhosts are now allowed in their armies. Why they kill anyone who witnesses them "killing" daemons. Why drago is alive in the warp. It is now perfectly clear.
Spoiler:
Soylent green is people!
The entire chapter has fallen to chaos, and is a mole. They make deals with the deamon to make it look like they are defending the IoM when really they are plotting against it. As soon as Tzeech gives the word their going to attack Holy Terra.
this is just the same thing as saying pskers use the warp so all of them are allies of the chaos gods or calgar is actually a genestealer that was how the ultramarines survived the hivefleet.....
From a fluff perspective its really wrong. It has already been mentioned that the GK cant be corrupted but also consider how your Chaos GK would get access to all those force weapons no one else has.
Really if you want to do this, use the GK models and make a new chapter with a better name than Chaos GK. I think a lot of the flaming going on here would go away if you said "I'm going to make a new chapter called Blabla and will use the GK models for it".
ObliviousBlueCaboose wrote:actually pouncy it says that their first act was to turn their blades (which means kill) on the sisters. And all jokes aside. Corrupted Grey Knights are possible thanks to matt ward.
Yes, but they did that so they could get their blood to use in the mixture. You don't have to kill someone to get that small of a quantity of blood.
ObliviousBlueCaboose wrote:actually pouncy it says that their first act was to turn their blades (which means kill) on the sisters. And all jokes aside. Corrupted Grey Knights are possible thanks to matt ward.
You said all jokes aside, it means you don't joke afterwards.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
ObliviousBlueCaboose wrote:Pouncy its not my reality, its matt wards reality, which makes it cannon.
and pizza you got to read the post where i outline since they cant be corrupted, why they need to kill the sisters. long story short they can be corrupted and that the inquisitors are covering it up. Then if you go and read all the fluff in the codex it actually makes sense that the knights are all corrupted, why else would they let deamonhosts (which are deamons) in their army. Or how Drago can survive in the warp. Or why that guy carries a deamon blade.
Automatically Appended Next Post: and no iprxtaco i'm using logic and reason to deduct that either the grey knights enjoy killing the sisters for no reason, or that they can actually be corrupted. And if they can be corrupted its a big cover up.
ObliviousBlueCaboose wrote:and pizza you got to read the post where i outline since they cant be corrupted, why they need to kill the sisters. long story short they can be corrupted and that the inquisitors are covering it up. Then if you go and read all the fluff in the codex it actually makes sense that the knights are all corrupted, why else would they let deamonhosts (which are deamons) in their army. Or how Drago can survive in the warp. Or why that guy carries a deamon blade.
Automatically Appended Next Post: and no iprxtaco i'm using logic and reason to deduct that either the grey knights enjoy killing the sisters for no reason, or that they can actually be corrupted. And if they can be corrupted its a big cover up.
Those words, they do not mean what you think they mean. If you used logic, then you wouldn't come to that conclusion, ergo, you're trolling, and we aren't falling for it.
Honestly, it does, read it with a mind of "they can be corrupted" and you'll see it everywhere.
Even when it directly states the opposite? Ok then. Yeah, I think, "Oh, what I thought when I started reading this book was actually wrong, who'd have thought it?".
Fact. Grey Knights cannot be corrupted.
Fact. They killed the sisters to use their blood to fight corruption.
These two facts contradict each other. Either they are incorruptible and killed the sisters for no reason (or perhaps blood for the blood god). Or they can be corrupted.
Fact They fight along side deamons.
Fact: They use deamon blades.
Fact: They have a Knight in the warp. Now if the bloodtide can corrupt a grey knight, the warp can too. So either hes now dead, or corrupted and the inquisition is covering it up or he is a super special snowflake.
My reasoning. Using the facts, especially the use of deamon allies and deamon blades, the whole chapter has fallen to chaos.
Or the knights can be corrupted, and the ones who are are executed or escape into the warp. Inquisition covers it up.
Durza wrote:Except they used to be a small, elite section of a force. Now there seems to be more of them than there are Guardsmen.
Yeah. But also, in a far more accurate sense, no. There used to be 3000 of them as of the Daemonhunters Codex. There are now 1000 of them. So they've actually gone down to 33% of their numbers...
Lets, for a minute, take anything you're saying seriously. I think the only thing to say really, is that your facts are wrong. Back again to thinking you're a huge persistent troll.
Honestly, it does, read it with a mind of "they can be corrupted" and you'll see it everywhere.
Even when it directly states the opposite? Ok then. Yeah, I think, "Oh, what I thought when I started reading this book was actually wrong, who'd have thought it?".
It says constantly, throughout the entire book that there is a danger of being corrupted.
It also says they can never be corrupted.
If that's not a blatant contradiction I don't know what is.
Honestly, it does, read it with a mind of "they can be corrupted" and you'll see it everywhere.
Even when it directly states the opposite? Ok then. Yeah, I think, "Oh, what I thought when I started reading this book was actually wrong, who'd have thought it?".
It says constantly, throughout the entire book that there is a danger of being corrupted.
It also says they can never be corrupted.
If that's not a blatant contradiction I don't know what is.
No it doesn't. Go and list the examples where the Grey Knights could fall to Chaos.
iproxtaco wrote:Lets, for a minute, take anything you're saying seriously. I think the only thing to say really, is that your facts are wrong. Back again to thinking you're a huge persistent troll.
Why? He's posted quotes from the Codex to back up his assertions.
iproxtaco wrote:Lets, for a minute, take anything you're saying seriously. I think the only thing to say really, is that your facts are wrong. Back again to thinking you're a huge persistent troll.
Why? He's posted quotes from the Codex to back up his assertions.
He posted a quote which doesn't back up his assertions but actually contradicts him.
oblivious i read the cover to cover a dozen times so please don't entertain yourself with the idea that everybody else is stupid...
"Fact. Grey Knights cannot be corrupted. "
Really this is what you pull out from the codex?
For the daemon blade it has a paragraph just about how crowe must always be on guard to the temptations of the sword. He is not immune to it just really really resistant.
They dont fight alongside daemons they fight alongside daemonhosts which all comes up to to using the enemies weapons against itself principal.
The book says the GK can be corrupted it actually has a huge neon sign on it. The problem with the chaos GK is in the 10k years of their existence, we the all knowing reader know with absolute certainty that not a single one has fallen to chaos. I made those suggestions just to be able to reach the ridicolousness of your saying.
The killing of the sisters has been well explained in many many threads just on the dakka which explains it usin various ways from it being a virus weapon to it actually decays your flesh and corrupts it beyond your control which can also be likened to a computer virus.
It seems like to please you of the idea that grey knights are not chaos already is for them to be not psychic and die to the touch of a daemon. (sarcasm detected beep beep beep)
iproxtaco wrote:Lets, for a minute, take anything you're saying seriously. I think the only thing to say really, is that your facts are wrong. Back again to thinking you're a huge persistent troll.
Nope if you have really read the codex, with a mindset other thant "OMG GREY KNIGHS ARE THE BESTESTS AND CAN NEVER EVER BE CORRUPTED" you will have read a few inconsistency. The blood tide being a big one. The codex states the GK cannot be corrupted. Yet they slaughtered the sisters to wear the blood on their armor to protect from corruption. Now if i was immune to corruption whould i do this? They will fight along deamonhosts, which are bound deamons, DEAMONS, the very thing they are created to fight. They mind wipe or kill everyone who assists them, to keep the exsistance of deamons a secret is the official story. They have a guy who carries a deamon blade. supposedly he can't be corrupted, however if you look at the bloodtide story it makes that suspect. As does Drago in the warp. If the blood tide cause the GK to fear corruption, the warp is exponentially grater threat of corruption.
The codex is full of inconsistencies, and if you actually think about it, it is entirely possible that GK can be corrupted.
I like to think as much of the GK codex as Imperial propaganda that they feed to the rest of the GKs. They deny that any of their brothers have ever been corrupted, because telling them the truth might plant the seed of Chaos in them. Like others have said, if they were incorruptible, why did they slaughter those SoB?
nectarprime wrote:I like to think as much of the GK codex as Imperial propaganda that they feed to the rest of the GKs. They deny that any of their brothers have ever been corrupted, because telling them the truth might plant the seed of Chaos in them. Like others have said, if they were incorruptible, why did they slaughter those SoB?
QFT. The codexes are propaganda. Always take it with a grain of salt. Keep an open mind. If its too good to be true, it probably is.
nectarprime wrote:I like to think as much of the GK codex as Imperial propaganda that they feed to the rest of the GKs. They deny that any of their brothers have ever been corrupted, because telling them the truth might plant the seed of Chaos in them. Like others have said, if they were incorruptible, why did they slaughter those SoB?
QFT. The codexes are propaganda. Always take it with a grain of salt. Keep an open mind. If its too good to be true, it probably is.
Yup. This is why I think there's something we don't know about Draigo, and that Mephiston is in fact a daemon prince.
iproxtaco wrote:Lets, for a minute, take anything you're saying seriously. I think the only thing to say really, is that your facts are wrong. Back again to thinking you're a huge persistent troll.
Why? He's posted quotes from the Codex to back up his assertions.
He posted a quote which doesn't back up his assertions but actually contradicts him.
Really? I count two quotes... here they are again.
No. It states they needed a tailismen to protect from the bloodtides taint. And it shielded them from the corruption. Exact quotes is "So shielded, the Grey Knights are able to stride through the goreflood without risk of Corruption" Pg. 15.
"They are the Emperor's final boon to Mankind, an army of unfaltering and INCORRUPTIBLE warriors of forgotten science."
They both support exactly what he's saying. They are "incorruptible" yet require a blood sacrifice to avoid "corruption". He's been saying the codex is contradictory. Those two quotes back up his assertion: Codex GK contradicts itself. The codex reads like parts of it were written a) by more than one author who might not have agreed with what the other guy was doing, or b) by a guy who throws words at a page without considering what they mean.
Neither of you is going to change the others mind.
That being said, Caboose's argument is stronger, because he lists his points and some opposing view points and produces a conclusion from there.
Those arguing that the Grey Knights are incorruptible usually point to a single sentence and ignore the rest of the arguments leveled against them.
That being said they can be corruptible and never have been corrupted. Having the capacity for something, and doing it are two very different things.
There should be a White Knights Chapter, who are not grimdark, and give out lollipops to kids, and tell the IG good job and give them stickers, and are Led by Master Rogers and against the evil of Chaos trying to ruin the IoM's neighborhood.
CpatTom wrote:Neither of you is going to change the others mind.
That being said, Caboose's argument is stronger, because he lists his points and some opposing view points and produces a conclusion from there.
Those arguing that the Grey Knights are incorruptible usually point to a single sentence and ignore the rest of the arguments leveled against them.
That being said they can be corruptible and never have been corrupted. Having the capacity for something, and doing it are two very different things.
There should be a White Knights Chapter, who are not grimdark, and give out lollipops to kids, and tell the IG good job and give them stickers, and are Led by Master Rogers and against the evil of Chaos trying to ruin the IoM's neighborhood.
Is it so bad that I want to field the GK in a way that's not straight from the book without having to "I'm SM, using GK models" which would pretty much double the price of a SM army?
Now that I think about it, wouldn't the Word Bearers work -perfectly- with the GK rules and units?
Nope, its your army, do what you want. And yes i got a firend working on a word bears army using the grey knight. I used to think the gk were incorruptible until he pointed out those inconsistencies to me.
they have dark apostles not psykers
i am going with the crowd saying that thousand sons would be better ruleswise . you can say like the justicar is the sorcerer, or the knight of the flame...
It came down to me going Dark Eldar or Grey Knights.
I've been told by so many to go with whichever army I think I'd enjoy painting more. For awhile now I've been using a friends army, and helping him paint it, this is due in large part to financial troubles I ran into preventing me from getting my own.
I like the look of the two greatly, the problem is, I'm not the biggest fan of the GK's titanium plated plot armor. It came down to a GK offshot or a Dark Eldar "Clockwork Kabal" which was going to be a bronze colored, steampunk-ish DE army (I have alot of gears that I could use for decoration).
The thing is, I also took various army lists, and priced them up for both GK and DE. GK averages around .19-.23 cents per point. While the DE average .25+ with it getting higher in the larger point values (and that's using the battlebox and using -all- the reavers, as well as converting some units into HQ, not to mention doesn't factor the greater amounts of needed paint)
Those cents add up quick, and given a choice between two armies with looks I like, I'd go with the cheaper.
You could jsut take draigo and 10 grey knight paladins and use that for 1750......or you could do something different than everyone else sporting the same 3 lists and calling it competive. If you are worried about costs and numbers then pick a different game bro. Or looking into recasting like myself
MORA wrote:You could jsut take draigo and 10 grey knight paladins and use that for 1750......or you could do something different than everyone else sporting the same 3 lists and calling it competive. If you are worried about costs and numbers then pick a different game bro. Or looking into recasting like myself
Oh, I'm not worried about the price. It's like I said, two armies I like about equally, one is cheaper, one is more expensive. I've done various lists, even ones I've made myself, GK always come out cheaper per point.
I bouight the dark eldar battleforce box.....came with 10 warriors and wyches....3 reavers and a raider....I made 3 hellions and a archon form the crew of the radier. it puts you about 700 pts if you do it that way.....so your looking at about 1500pts if you buy two boxs...
CpatTom wrote:Neither of you is going to change the others mind.
That being said, Caboose's argument is stronger, because he lists his points and some opposing view points and produces a conclusion from there.
Those arguing that the Grey Knights are incorruptible usually point to a single sentence and ignore the rest of the arguments leveled against them.
That being said they can be corruptible and never have been corrupted. Having the capacity for something, and doing it are two very different things.
There should be a White Knights Chapter, who are not grimdark, and give out lollipops to kids, and tell the IG good job and give them stickers, and are Led by Master Rogers and against the evil of Chaos trying to ruin the IoM's neighborhood.
This just made my day.
I've never made a sig before, I'm honored. Haha, Master Rodgers can accomplish anything!
I give up with this book, I really do. Why gave the Grey Knights to someone like Mat Ward? Did no one even check to make sure he was making sense and was consistent? Look, here's how far I got in my breakdown of the codex.
Ok, I'm game.
Page 5 :
- "it takes an army so pure of purpose as to be utterly beyond temptation. In all of the Imperium is there is but one such force,"
- "They are the Emperor's final boon to Mankind, and army of unfaltering and incorruptible warriors"
Page 6:
- "A Grey Knight's psychic presence is anathema to the creatures of the Warp, utterly unpalatable to a Daemon's dark appetites and thus entirely immune from corruption."
- Thusly armoured, a Grey Knight can wield forbidden sorceries, harness tainted artifacts and scour the pages of blasphemous tombs without risk of being overwhelmed by the cursed power at his command."
Page 8, read the bit about the Banishment of Daemons, the use of True Names can damn some, but Grey Knights use them without fear.
Page 15, the Bloodtide. No, it isn't a virus, it's a Daemonic power released from a Bloodthirster. The Grey Knights need something to stop from being corrupted by the Bloodtides effects, which causes people to explode in a shower of gore or turn insane and attack everything in a blood-rage. The Grey Knights cannot be corrupted into serving Chaos, they can be killed by the effects of corruption.
Page 23
- "After all, when one's soul is hardened against the promises and blandishments proferred by Daemons"
- "Why should I fear the Daemon? He has no power over me." Brother-Captain Castavor Drak
Page 24
- "for the Grey Knights to remain incorruptible"
I had already tactically ignored one quote that contradicts everything here, but I gave up when I got to the Purifiers and Crowe. The ideas are fine, the writing is just horrendous. Mat Ward truly has the worst technical writing skill of any Codex writer I've ever seen. Whether they are or aren't corruptible, we'll never know, I agree with Kroothawk, it's still a stupid childish idea.
MORA wrote:I bouight the dark eldar battleforce box.....came with 10 warriors and wyches....3 reavers and a raider....I made 3 hellions and a archon form the crew of the radier. it puts you about 700 pts if you do it that way.....so your looking at about 1500pts if you buy two boxs...
I'd like to see your math, because with that, excluding wargear, you'd be at 397 points, and can squeeze maybe 100-150 in wargear if you try (and end up with badly kitted units)
Also wondering how you made hellions, unless you made their boards from something else.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Just taken from the Librarian page. I'd find you more, but I don't want to spend my night finding each quote.
"To show the slightest wavering, the most momentary of weaknesses, is to offer oneself up to those otherworldly predators and to eternal damnation beyond."
"Such mysteries can never be allowed to escape the confines of the Sanctum Sanctorum, for the fear is ever that even some amongst the Grey Knights would not prove immune to their temptations."
iproxtaco wrote:Page 15, the Bloodtide. No, it isn't a virus, it's a Daemonic power released from a Bloodthirster. The Grey Knights need something to stop from being corrupted by the Bloodtides effects, which causes people to explode in a shower of gore or turn insane and attack everything in a blood-rage. The Grey Knights cannot be corrupted into serving Chaos, they can be killed by the effects of corruption.
See the whole sentence here contradicts your argument. Definition of CORRUPTION
1
a : impairment of integrity, virtue, or moral principle : depravity b : decay, decomposition c : inducement to wrong by improper or unlawful means (as bribery) d : a departure from the original or from what is pure or correct
2
archaic : an agency or influence that corrupts
So they are already supposedly immune to the effects of the corruption. However if i was immune to bullets, i wouldn't go around killing cops to take their bullet proof vests would I? No, I'd go around trying to save the cops by killing the guy with the gun. But since they did kill the sisters, this creates an idea where the GK are not immune to corruption of chaos. Rather they are merely resistant. Which gives The OP a FLUFF reason to have GK corrupted by Slaanesh. It does not fit in with the WH40k mythos to have a incorruptible human force. Personally i find the GK to be a bunch of mary sues who need to be taken down a peg or three.
it doesn't matter if your flesh starts to melt in your armour now does it even if you are believe in emperor or not. The op would only have his chaos gk at m42 which is beyond the curtain
Don't do it. If you want a Slaanesh army find those nipply daemonettes and use them. Please don't try and get around the fluff, all you'll get is a lot of weird looks from across the table.
I promise, it is okay to conform. It doesn't hurt.
it doesn't matter if your flesh starts to melt in your armour now does it even if you are believe in emperor or not. The op would only have his chaos gk at m42 which is beyond the curtain
They are incorruptible, immune to choas corruption, so they would be immune to chaos mutation. IF they are actually immune.
Darthslowe wrote:Don't do it. If you want a Slaanesh army find those nipply daemonettes and use them. Please don't try and get around the fluff, all you'll get is a lot of weird looks from across the table.
I promise, it is okay to conform. It doesn't hurt.
I'd love to.
If not for Chaos Space Marines being thee most expensive none-horde (with alot of units I don't care for), or Beasts of Chaos being... bad.
iproxtaco wrote:Page 15, the Bloodtide. No, it isn't a virus, it's a Daemonic power released from a Bloodthirster. The Grey Knights need something to stop from being corrupted by the Bloodtides effects, which causes people to explode in a shower of gore or turn insane and attack everything in a blood-rage. The Grey Knights cannot be corrupted into serving Chaos, they can be killed by the effects of corruption.
See the whole sentence here contradicts your argument. Definition of CORRUPTION
1
a : impairment of integrity, virtue, or moral principle : depravity b : decay, decomposition c : inducement to wrong by improper or unlawful means (as bribery) d : a departure from the original or from what is pure or correct
2
archaic : an agency or influence that corrupts
So they are already supposedly immune to the effects of the corruption. However if i was immune to bullets, i wouldn't go around killing cops to take their bullet proof vests would I? No, I'd go around trying to save the cops by killing the guy with the gun. But since they did kill the sisters, this creates an idea where the GK are not immune to corruption of chaos. Rather they are merely resistant. Which gives The OP a FLUFF reason to have GK corrupted by Slaanesh. It does not fit in with the WH40k mythos to have a incorruptible human force. Personally i find the GK to be a bunch of mary sues who need to be taken down a peg or three.
You can't define corruption in 40k like that. In universe there are different forms. You can willingly choose to serve the Dark Gods, that's being corrupted, it's different from being forcibly corrupted to serve the Chaos Gods, which is corruption of the soul and mind. Then there's physical corruption, which is mutation, being killed by Nurgles diseases, and the Bloodtide, to name a few examples. There's no one definition of it. Mat Ward is such a horrifically bad writer technical-wise, that he is unable to get his point across. Who knows, they may or may not be corruptible. What I find odd is, that you say there's conflicting fluff in the book, and yet go and form your own certainty. There is no final conclusion.
it doesn't matter if your flesh starts to melt in your armour now does it even if you are believe in emperor or not. The op would only have his chaos gk at m42 which is beyond the curtain
They are incorruptible, immune to choas corruption, so they would be immune to chaos mutation. IF they are actually immune.
they have incorruptible souls not incorruptible flesh which believe it or not, are different things.
Actually i was giving the op a justification for corrupted GK. At least originally. Then it got fun to find supporting the idea. And the text doesn't different from souls and flesh. Also if your flesh fallls to chaos, then your fallen to chaos. Ask all the mutants.
ObliviousBlueCaboose wrote:Actually i was giving the op a justification for corrupted GK. At least originally. Then it got fun to find supporting the idea. And the text doesn't different from souls and flesh. Also if your flesh fallls to chaos, then your fallen to chaos. Ask all the mutants.
no actually if the mutations are a side effect of you worshipping chaos gods so the soul is already corrupted.If we are talking about regular mutants from the regular hive world radiation causes that and they can still be faithfull altough the inquisiton appereantly doesnt think so.
And nobody here is going to stop OP from making a chaos GK models since how can we? The whole point of the discussion going on here is forcing the issue of the poor writing of matt ward and trying to make an implausible idea of chaos gk plausible by destroying the more plausible one of none have fallen to chaos and never will.
What is chaos? A constant,or a variable? Chaos is not one thing: it is both a twisted perversion and a stark contradiction of our emotions, morals and ideas. Chaos does what it wants to, so long as the idea behind it is, now hereby called lolwut?, powerful enough to make a difference. Theoretically, the ruinous powers could corrupt the grey knights with enough lolwut?, which they could aquire in, oh let's say, the 42nd millenium. A chaos grey knight army is now impossible.
Commence trolling
People argue over science fiction logic from a poorly written set of information that at times contradicts itself while straying from the original intent of the thread.
I think it is obvious . And i assume the original thought of this thread is already answered half a doze times.
Go for the chaos GK , your question is pretty redundant imo , since slaneesh is the wrong choice to corrupt the gk s, it would probably nurgle if not tzeentch beats him to the spot.
You can always make the bloodtide going on as well, gore coming out of palces and mutate arms legs of the models...
pizzaguardian wrote:I think it is obvious . And i assume the original thought of this thread is already answered half a doze times.
Go for the chaos GK , your question is pretty redundant imo , since slaneesh is the wrong choice to corrupt the gk s, it would probably nurgle if not tzeentch beats him to the spot.
You can always make the bloodtide going on as well, gore coming out of palces and mutate arms legs of the models...
Is that on the track as you wish?
Well yes, but if you read the thread I conceded to drop the idea for Chaos GK and asked for ideas on using the GK models and rules while straying from the cookie cutter GK.
as been said before
thousand sons since as far as i know it is common for them to have a psyker in every squad(similar to eldar spritseers) , not sure about this tough.
I personnaly like the thousand son marine box and they can be used as purifiers maybe? but you want to use the gk models so it needs to be a terminator heavy army but i dont know any chaos army like that...
Question, does the codex GK say anywhere that their gear can't be used by others?
If not, then there's a perfect loophole. Over the last 10 millinia, X chaos warband has collected the arms and armor of the GK, and it goes to their warbands greatest champions
this actually has been considered before and it has came down to : some daemonettes killed grey knights and stole their armour so now they are wearing it.
There is a direct mention that it is sealed and protected by the best sigils know to the imperium of man so one would assume it is really hard to cleanse it from the GK, but acceptable.
Altough there are no direct references of the armour is not wearable by chaos champions there are some mentioning that the armour itself is a weapon in the fight so for a chaos champion it would like wearing a posinous thing. It has even ingame penalties to psykers trying to target it.
Slaanesh GK:
Everything has halberds=mark of slaanesh
Psycannons=blast masters
Storm bolters=the slaanesh bolter thing
Forceweapon=the instant death power of the sword thing
that is pretty much how gk works and why this thread heated up so easily. GK s are not supposed to be corrupted on tabletop or fluffwise.
Oh and the codex before this one actually says it is psychically charged to fight unholy and has
hexagrammic wards
anointed and inscribed with prayers
and in game it actually simply made every GK unit have a psychcic hood in game wise.
Grey knights are probably the "evilest" of all space marines that fight for the imperium. That being said, it sounds cool but probaly would not happen.
However who is to say that your new chaos legion did not defeat the Grey Knights in battle and took and corrupted their "armor"? That could work better fluff wise.
k it was actually enjoyable arguing with you but how are you even reading my posts, the last oen had nothing to do with canon or fluff , it was simply how people see the grey knights. and when does supposed to means infinite absolution?
Namica wrote:What will people think when I walk in, lay down my marines and go "counts as Grey Knights"?
I don't think anyone would mind. There are plenty of examples out there of using the Grey Knights codex to represent another force, the best one probably being 30K Thousand Sons.
Nor did I want to be some "special snowflake". It's a wargame with a ton of fluff, there should be some room for doing what you want. Not every GK has to be a knight in shiny silver armor.
Yes, they do. There are few immutable and absolute things in 40k fluff, but that is one of them.
And anyway, they only look like knights in shiny silver armor, they are actually quite ruthless dicks.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
ObliviousBlueCaboose wrote:They are incorruptible, immune to choas corruption, so they would be immune to chaos mutation. IF they are actually immune.
No, although their various wards and such make them resistant to psychic powers, they can still be killed by a Bolt of Change or similar abilities. The incorruptibility comes into play when talking about their faith in the Emperor and utter rejection of Chaos.
Meh, I'll work on the idea more. I've got plenty of ways to use GK rules and models but not be GK at this point (chaos chapters, stolen armor and weapons etc...)
Or just go with steam punk DE, who knows.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
No, although their various wards and such make them resistant to psychic powers, they can still be killed by a Bolt of Change or similar abilities. The incorruptibility comes into play when talking about their faith in the Emperor and utter rejection of Chaos.
So each and every GK has a stronger will than the traitor primarchs.
ObliviousBlueCaboose wrote:Again its cannon they can be corrupted. Unless you wish to argue that the grey knights codex isn't cannon.
No, it isn't. Again, you proved their are a few contradictions, you cannot then use that come up with one conclusion. If you want to just choose whatever outcome you prefer then fine, I'll do the same thing. Grey Knights are incorruptible, it says it in the codex. Don't bother trying to argue again. Even at the base-line of your argument, the codex isn't "cannon".
You can't use the idea that another faction is using the Grey Knight's gear. Simply put, they can't. The only place they get their armour and weapons from is their own private Forge World. No other faction uses it. Nemesis Force weapons are made by the Grey Knights in their Fortress Monastery, so there's no way any random Space Marines getting hold of a few Halberds. At the same time, any other faction isn't going to able to use the stuff. It all boils down to either they aren't psykers, or Space Marines, or both. For Chaos to use it, in any way, they're going to have to completely break down the armour into it's base components, and by that stage it wont even be recognizable as Grey Knight armour.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Namica wrote:
No, although their various wards and such make them resistant to psychic powers, they can still be killed by a Bolt of Change or similar abilities. The incorruptibility comes into play when talking about their faith in the Emperor and utter rejection of Chaos.
So each and every GK has a stronger will than the traitor primarchs.
Yes, since the Grey Knights are largely devoid of the flaws the Primarchs had, and are aware of what they're resisting. The Primarchs had no idea what they were dealing with.
Namica wrote:So each and every GK has a stronger will than the traitor primarchs.
When it comes to resisting the lure of Chaos? Absolutely.
You have to remember that the Primarchs, for all their power and skill, were basically naive and brattish children. Lorgar fell to Chaos because he felt daddy didn't love him enough, Horus sparked off the Heresy because he thought he wouldn't be remembered enough, while Fulgrim thought that the voice in his head telling him poop is awesome was actually his conscience.
ObliviousBlueCaboose wrote:Again its cannon they can be corrupted. Unless you wish to argue that the grey knights codex isn't cannon.
They can be, sure. They have free will afterall, and they can choose what they do. They won't bow to Chaos though. Chaos can't offer them what they want.
Namica wrote:I would say an incredibly lame idea, would be to take societies greatest enemy, who is largly based on corruption.
Then make an entire army that can't be corrupted, period.
It's shoddy writing.
they had to make something incorruptible to make it more epic, its very good writing
the bloodtide, i suspect would have corrupted thier flesh only, the whole reason they are chosen is so they have incorruptible souls.
mutants are allowed, grudgingly, to live in and work for the imperium.
i would use the idea that the inquisitor is corrupt and the GK's are just using him, as a player, i would question the 'deathwatch with GK weapons' idea.
also, don't use the 'chaos using GK weapons' idea, GK weapons and armour are laced with silver and are psychically charged for good, using it would burn the servants of chaos, and they would have to be psykers to use the weapons.
Marzillius wrote:Do it if you want, but you should be prepared for refused games. I for one would never play against a corrupted Grey Knight army.
Why not?
I mean if we're going fluff extremest here, I won't play against grey knights unless they have a 0-1 limit on psycannons. They're only a few score in the whole galaxy.
I won't play against an eldar army with Eldrad, hesdead, or a gk army with driago, hes in the warp. .
I will not fight my IG against any GK, or SM, for my army is a loyal army.
I will not play against another IG army, unless their Regiment is comprised solely of Infantry, Armor, or Artillery. Or if they are a Multiple Regimental Battle Force with all the regiments painted different.
You see how silly it get? Just play the game. The Wh40k galaxy is a big place. There's bound to be a csm faction that looks similer to the GK, or even corrupted GK.
iproxtaco wrote:
ObliviousBlueCaboose wrote:Again its cannon they can be corrupted. Unless you wish to argue that the grey knights codex isn't cannon.
the codex isn't "cannon".
Then I can run them as anything i want. And so can the OP. Thank you.
Marzillius wrote:Do it if you want, but you should be prepared for refused games. I for one would never play against a corrupted Grey Knight army.
Why not?
iproxtaco wrote:
ObliviousBlueCaboose wrote:Again its cannon they can be corrupted. Unless you wish to argue that the grey knights codex isn't cannon.
the codex isn't "cannon".
Then I can run them as anything i want. And so can the OP. Thank you.
I would play the against the army, but would have to get off a few obligatory eye rolls and witty comments when the person was setting up. Which is likely the reaction you will recieve most, but they are your models and you can do whatever you want with em.
akaean wrote:Hey guys. If you are wondering about a fluff explanation...
Fabius Bile, after witnessing the Grey Knights in action, decides that they are rather amusing. And commences creation of another strand of "enhanced chaos space marines" more capable in psychic might.
In Chaos' eternal mockery of the Imperium, Bile's "Black Knights" wear armor reminiscent of the Elite Chapter of Marines they were inspired from.
there are plenty of ways to get chaos grey knights .
Also they would just be a corrupted GK army which uses the GK rules. Same way people make traitor guard armies using the IG codex.
I like this idea for the background of your army. That way fanboys can say they aren't "true" grey knights so it doesn't count as any of them actually being corrupted and keeps with the fluff.
The army would look cool no doubt about that. The fluff would be terrible without any doubt on that either. If you don't care then fine, make it up but if you post it on the internet and ask for C&C then you'll be in for a short sharp shower of badly smelling brown stuff. If it's the look of the army you like but not the fluff then run it as a counts as... EDIt: I am talking about actual GK becoming corrupted... sneaky go arounds are shiny as long as they are feasible...
Marzillius wrote:Do it if you want, but you should be prepared for refused games. I for one would never play against a corrupted Grey Knight army.
Why not?
I mean if we're going fluff extremest here, I won't play against grey knights unless they have a 0-1 limit on psycannons. They're only a few score in the whole galaxy.
The Grey Knights own them all.
I won't play against an eldar army with Eldrad, hesdead, or a gk army with driago, hes in the warp.
Draigo can leave the Warp.
iproxtaco wrote:
ObliviousBlueCaboose wrote:Again its cannon they can be corrupted. Unless you wish to argue that the grey knights codex isn't cannon.
the codex isn't "cannon".
Then I can run them as anything i want. And so can the OP. Thank you.
This is a C-A-N-N-O-N
Whilst C-A-N-O-N (notice this word only has a single 'n') is what you mean. Besides, there's no such thing as 'canon' with GW. But yes, make whatever army you want, it still wouldn't fit the fluff.
[quote=Coolyo294Loyalist descendants of Traitor Legions
But that's supported by Deathwatch fluff (black shields or something) and doesn't one of the horus heresy novels implied that a Death Guard detach was turned into the grey knights?
Coolyo294 wrote:Loyalist descendants of Traitor Legions
But that's supported by Deathwatch fluff (black shields or something) and doesn't one of the horus heresy novels implied that a Death Guard detach was turned into the grey knights?
No, I mean like an entire successor Chapter based off of the Gene-Seed of a Traitor Legion.
Coolyo294 wrote:Loyalist descendants of Traitor Legions
But that's supported by Deathwatch fluff (black shields or something) and doesn't one of the horus heresy novels implied that a Death Guard detach was turned into the grey knights?
A bunch of Space Marines, loyalists from the Traitor Legions and other, are speculated to be the original 8 founders of the Grey Knights.
@iproxtaco, Yes Draigo can leave the warp, when the veil is thin enough, like agianst a demonic incursion. So I will add that he can fight against deamons. Anything else, nope he can't be in the army fluffwise.
I'm not, it was in response to the guy who said he refuses to play corrupted grey knights. I could care less, its your army, you make the fluff. I mean you paid for it, do what you want.
Well of course, he can paint them pick and replace each Grey Knight's weapon with giant phalluses for all I care. He asked for opinions from a fluff perspective, the general consensus is "it's a bad idea and you should feel bad for thinking it".
Malal is the God that wants to kill other Chaos Gods. He focuses on the guys that fight for justice and all that and turns them into his champions. He gives them epic powers and uses them to harm the other Chaos Gods as much as he can. That would sorta explain how is Draigo able to go through the Warp burning gardens and tatooing Primarchs. He's a Champion of Malal! Now, a whole bunch of Grey Knights working for Malal would make a lot of sense, wouldn't it?
Belexar wrote:Malal is the God that wants to kill other Chaos Gods. He focuses on the guys that fight for justice and all that and turns them into his champions. He gives them epic powers and uses them to harm the other Chaos Gods as much as he can. That would sorta explain how is Draigo able to go through the Warp burning gardens and tatooing Primarchs. He's a Champion of Malal! Now, a whole bunch of Grey Knights working for Malal would make a lot of sense, wouldn't it?
Well no, because Malal, if were to exist, is still a Chaos God as much as Khorne or Nurgle are. Malal is basically the Chaos God of chaos, just as Khorne is embodiment of anger and blood-lust, Malal is the embodiment of Chaos's own destructive nature.
MORA wrote:I bouight the dark eldar battleforce box.....came with 10 warriors and wyches....3 reavers and a raider....I made 3 hellions and a archon form the crew of the radier. it puts you about 700 pts if you do it that way.....so your looking at about 1500pts if you buy two boxs...
I'd like to see your math, because with that, excluding wargear, you'd be at 397 points, and can squeeze maybe 100-150 in wargear if you try (and end up with badly kitted units)
Also wondering how you made hellions, unless you made their boards from something else.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Just taken from the Librarian page. I'd find you more, but I don't want to spend my night finding each quote.
"To show the slightest wavering, the most momentary of weaknesses, is to offer oneself up to those otherworldly predators and to eternal damnation beyond."
"Such mysteries can never be allowed to escape the confines of the Sanctum Sanctorum, for the fear is ever that even some amongst the Grey Knights would not prove immune to their temptations."
The list is below.
FYI everything has magnets in my army also. so I can put any CCW and ranged on any model if i need to.
Spoiler:
Well you get 10 warriors and wyches....3 reavers....and 1 raider....to start
1blaster,dark lance splinter cannon and shredder for warriors
1 pair of hyrda gunalets and razorflails 2 power weapons and 2 agonisers and a shardnet and implaer.
From the crew of the raider I modded 3 hellions using the spar bits from the raider I also constructed myself a archon.
My list at the time of starting DE was:
Archon: Huskblade(modded powerweapon1) ghostplate,combat drugs,soul-trap and clone field,=145pts
Kalabite warroirs: blaster and splinter cannon=115pts
wyches: hekatrix with agoniser1, X2 hyrdas/razorflails=170pts
inside a raider with flickerfield and nightsheilds=80pts
this comes to 701 pts...like i said about 700 pts can be pulled out of the battle force. I can send you pictures of my hellions if you wanna see but atm I dont have any and camara is playing hide and seek with me .
Buy another battleforce and you got 1402 and some more ponits to play with..Id give all the wyches haywires...outta 10 haywires one has got to roll a 5-6 to wreck or explode. that will bring to 1442 pts. get rid of 2 wyches which frees up 30 pts. take two portals on each archon. Also upgrade the reavers with agnosiers. which with 2 archon,6 hellions,6reavers,20warriors,18wyches, 2 raider you and bring the fight to them with portals. makes this a in your face kinda list. which if you do that it really becomes 1412. with pts to play with. I bought a beast masterwith agoniser a clawed fiend and a razorwing flock to fill in the gaps. or you can take a venom for the same amount putting you around 1499 with the beast master combo. or take the venom for 1492 for a venom for both archons and take back the two wyches W/. haywire bombs. for 1492
.
