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Khaddafy kaputt?  @ 2011/10/20 12:21:16


Post by: Frazzled


Bloomberg reporting he's pushing up daisies now.


Khaddafy kaputt?  @ 2011/10/20 12:23:47


Post by: WarOne


You mean captured and in the custody of the rebels?

The news is too raw right now. I'd give it an hour or so for confirmation about if he is dead or wounded and captured.


Khaddafy kaputt?  @ 2011/10/20 12:24:48


Post by: Melissia


http://www.cnn.com/2011/10/20/world/africa/libya-war/index.html?hpt=wo_c1

Captured is the current report.


Khaddafy kaputt?  @ 2011/10/20 12:27:51


Post by: WarOne


There are some other reports. So far the reports are contradictory, depending on the news source.


Khaddafy kaputt?  @ 2011/10/20 12:28:21


Post by: Frazzled


No, dead. worm food, fertilizer.

We shall see what it finally turns out to be.


Khaddafy kaputt?  @ 2011/10/20 12:29:46


Post by: WarOne


Frazzled wrote:No, dead. worm food, fertilizer.

We shall see what it finally turns out to be.


Okay, then I won't tell you that the color purple is actually green then.


Khaddafy kaputt?  @ 2011/10/20 12:38:41


Post by: Frazzled


WarOne wrote:
Frazzled wrote:No, dead. worm food, fertilizer.

We shall see what it finally turns out to be.


Okay, then I won't tell you that the color purple is actually green then.


I'm seeing reports of capturred, wounded and captured, and dead. None of these are bad.


Khaddafy kaputt?  @ 2011/10/20 12:40:51


Post by: WarOne


Frazzled wrote:
I'm seeing reports of capturred, wounded and captured, and dead. None of these are bad.


His death would be convenient. A wounded and captured former dictator is a bad thing given the current climate there. When I mean climate, there are still insurgents loyal to Qaddafi, a loose coalition of rebels, and authority that is tenuously in power at best.

So his survival complicates the matter to no end.


Khaddafy kaputt?  @ 2011/10/20 13:14:48


Post by: Frazzled


More reports that he has more holes now than he did before.


Khaddafy kaputt?  @ 2011/10/20 13:19:05


Post by: Ouze


This is a great victory for... someone. Surely democracy will flourish now! Or possibly not. But surely these freedom fighters will be better then the last batch of freedom fighters! Or, possibly not.


Khaddafy kaputt?  @ 2011/10/20 13:23:15


Post by: whigwam


They might have got Khaddafy, but Gadhafi and Qaddafi are still on the loose!


Khaddafy kaputt?  @ 2011/10/20 13:32:22


Post by: Nerivant


And so I said, "Libya? I 'ardly even know ya!"

Wounded and captured seems to be cropping up the most.



Khaddafy kaputt?  @ 2011/10/20 13:34:22


Post by: whigwam


Nerivant wrote:And so I said, "Libya? I 'ardly even know ya!"

Wounded and captured seems to be cropping up the most.



Have you seen the photo of him? He looks pretty dead.


Khaddafy kaputt?  @ 2011/10/20 13:36:00


Post by: Nerivant


whigwam wrote:
Nerivant wrote:And so I said, "Libya? I 'ardly even know ya!"

Wounded and captured seems to be cropping up the most.



Have you seen the photo of him? He looks pretty dead.


Hmm, my RSS stopped updating about two hours ago.

Fancy that.

Yeah, that blows holes out of my theory.

And him.


Khaddafy kaputt?  @ 2011/10/20 13:37:58


Post by: Frazzled


whigwam wrote:They might have got Khaddafy, but Gadhafi and Qaddafi are still on the loose!




Khaddafy kaputt?  @ 2011/10/20 13:47:18


Post by: Medium of Death




GADDAFI


Khaddafy kaputt?  @ 2011/10/20 13:47:49


Post by: Rented Tritium


The dead report is gaining prominence over the others.


Khaddafy kaputt?  @ 2011/10/20 13:48:20


Post by: kronk


Medium of Death wrote:

GADDAFI


gesundheit


Khaddafy kaputt?  @ 2011/10/20 13:52:53


Post by: Medium of Death


I think he may need more than a tissue.

Please don't post pictures of actual corpses on DakkaDakka. Thanks! ~Manchu


Khaddafy kaputt?  @ 2011/10/20 13:55:05


Post by: Nerivant


Medium of Death wrote:I think he may need more than a tissue.


That's in really bad taste, mate.


Khaddafy kaputt?  @ 2011/10/20 13:55:29


Post by: Karon


Did they scoop out his eyeballs?

Oh, and nobody say "DON'T POST THAT, ITS DISRESPECTFUL"

This man was a terrible human being, and was insane to boot. Do not feel sorry for him if someone put an icecream scooper to his eyes, instead of to one of our soldiers.


Khaddafy kaputt?  @ 2011/10/20 13:58:08


Post by: malfred


Frazzled wrote:More reports that he has more holes now than he did before.


So that means in jail and sharing a cell, right?


Khaddafy kaputt?  @ 2011/10/20 14:00:01


Post by: whigwam


Medium of Death wrote:

GADDAFI


Are you facepalming because you think there's a correct way to spell it? Arab names typically have no standard anglicization.


Khaddafy kaputt?  @ 2011/10/20 14:21:31


Post by: Frazzled


malfred wrote:
Frazzled wrote:More reports that he has more holes now than he did before.


So that means in jail and sharing a cell, right?



Khaddafy kaputt?  @ 2011/10/20 14:22:15


Post by: Samus_aran115


About time.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Karon wrote:Did they scoop out his eyeballs?

Oh, and nobody say "DON'T POST THAT, ITS DISRESPECTFUL"

This man was a terrible human being, and was insane to boot. Do not feel sorry for him if someone put an icecream scooper to his eyes, instead of to one of our soldiers.


:america:


Khaddafy kaputt?  @ 2011/10/20 14:24:02


Post by: Melissia


Dunno, I don't like torture regardless of who's suffering it, myself. IF he was already dead though... not my problem.


Khaddafy kaputt?  @ 2011/10/20 14:26:15


Post by: NuggzTheNinja


I love this...

Some 3rd world upstarts knock off a petty dictator and we have snuff footage within 10 minutes.

Our hard-earned tax dollars, accrued over a decade, go to killing Bin Ladin and we still don't have any fething pictures.


Khaddafy kaputt?  @ 2011/10/20 14:27:30


Post by: Melissia


Well it's okay for a muslim to kill another muslim and brag about it, but not if a non-muslim or muslim-american does it.


Khaddafy kaputt?  @ 2011/10/20 14:30:44


Post by: Albatross


Al-Jazeera has released images of Gaddafi allegedly being dragged along the street. Classy. I'm glad our goverments spent millions helping those guys, because they are SO not savages...


Khaddafy kaputt?  @ 2011/10/20 14:34:29


Post by: Chowderhead


Wouldn't you want to do that, as well?

You have a leader who has oppressed you, killed your people, and has lied about it for 50 years. Then, when you say you've had enough, he sets the army on you.


Khaddafy kaputt?  @ 2011/10/20 14:36:08


Post by: Samus_aran115


At least we don't have to look at his atrocious uniform ever again.


Khaddafy kaputt?  @ 2011/10/20 14:37:05


Post by: Albatross


Chowderhead wrote:Wouldn't you want to do that, as well?

You have a leader who has oppressed you, killed your people, and has lied about it for 50 years. Then, when you say you've had enough, he sets the army on you.

No, because I'm British. Him no longer breathing would be enough for me - I wouldn't cheapen myself by behaving like a monkey.


Khaddafy kaputt?  @ 2011/10/20 14:37:39


Post by: biccat


NuggzTheNinja wrote:Our hard-earned tax dollars, accrued over a decade, go to killing Bin Ladin and we still don't have any fething pictures.

Simply because the government didn't release "official" pictures doesn't mean that they're unavailable.

Anyway, I'm glad to see another dead terrorist, so yay for the Libyan rebels. Hopefully they don't go all theocratic like the dingbats in Egypt.


Khaddafy kaputt?  @ 2011/10/20 14:39:24


Post by: Chowderhead


Albatross wrote:
Chowderhead wrote:Wouldn't you want to do that, as well?

You have a leader who has oppressed you, killed your people, and has lied about it for 50 years. Then, when you say you've had enough, he sets the army on you.

No, because I'm British. Him no longer breathing would be enough for me - I wouldn't cheapen myself by behaving like a monkey.

Yes, but us Americans would tie him to the back of our Dodge Ram and drive him down Route 66.


Khaddafy kaputt?  @ 2011/10/20 14:40:37


Post by: Ketara


Albatross wrote:
Chowderhead wrote:Wouldn't you want to do that, as well?

You have a leader who has oppressed you, killed your people, and has lied about it for 50 years. Then, when you say you've had enough, he sets the army on you.

No, because I'm British. Him no longer breathing would be enough for me - I wouldn't cheapen myself by behaving like a monkey.



Seconded. We're not barbaric savages. This isn't the Dark Ages, we don't need to hang, draw and quarter him. A single gunshot and a burial will suffice.


Khaddafy kaputt?  @ 2011/10/20 14:42:19


Post by: Chowderhead


I'm not saying I agree with it, I'm saying I can see why they're doing it.

It's a disgusting thing to do, and they should be ashamed of themselves.


Khaddafy kaputt?  @ 2011/10/20 14:44:41


Post by: Albatross


Ketara wrote:
Albatross wrote:
Chowderhead wrote:Wouldn't you want to do that, as well?

You have a leader who has oppressed you, killed your people, and has lied about it for 50 years. Then, when you say you've had enough, he sets the army on you.

No, because I'm British. Him no longer breathing would be enough for me - I wouldn't cheapen myself by behaving like a monkey.



Seconded. We're not barbaric savages. This isn't the Dark Ages, we don't need to hang, draw and quarter him. A single gunshot and a burial will suffice.


Seriously. What ever happened to the grim satisfaction of an unpleasant job well done? I wish we still ran the world sometimes, old bean.

/wistful


Khaddafy kaputt?  @ 2011/10/20 14:45:15


Post by: NuggzTheNinja


biccat wrote:
NuggzTheNinja wrote:Our hard-earned tax dollars, accrued over a decade, go to killing Bin Ladin and we still don't have any fething pictures.

Simply because the government didn't release "official" pictures doesn't mean that they're unavailable.

Anyway, I'm glad to see another dead terrorist, so yay for the Libyan rebels. Hopefully they don't go all theocratic like the dingbats in Egypt.


The photos circulating are fake. We aren't going to see the real deal.


Khaddafy kaputt?  @ 2011/10/20 14:49:58


Post by: Melissia


And we won't see the real thing because they don't want to give ammo to the practically cult-like AQ recruiting officers.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
From CNN:

Gadhafi's son, Mutassim, and his chief of intelligence, Abdullah al-Senussi, have been killed, according to Anees al-Sharif, spokesman for AbdelHakim Belhajj of the Tripoli military council.


Khaddafy kaputt?  @ 2011/10/20 14:52:30


Post by: sarpedons-right-hand


Personally, its good that he is 'Kaput'... One less maniacal, crazy despot in the world. The good Colonel was up there with Saddam Hussien and Idi Amin...

Good riddance to fething bad rubbish.


Khaddafy kaputt?  @ 2011/10/20 14:53:25


Post by: Chowderhead


Melissia wrote:Gadhafi's son, Mutassim, and his chief of intelligence, Abdullah al-Senussi, have been killed, according to Anees al-Sharif, spokesman for AbdelHakim Belhajj of the Tripoli military council.

That's going a bit to far.


Khaddafy kaputt?  @ 2011/10/20 14:55:14


Post by: Samus_aran115


Chowderhead wrote:
Melissia wrote:Gadhafi's son, Mutassim, and his chief of intelligence, Abdullah al-Senussi, have been killed, according to Anees al-Sharif, spokesman for AbdelHakim Belhajj of the Tripoli military council.

That's going a bit to far.


Is it? This is north Africa we're talking about.

Certainly his son didn't need to die, but I'd say this is normal procedure in overthrowing a facist dictator...



Khaddafy kaputt?  @ 2011/10/20 14:58:00


Post by: Albatross


Chowderhead wrote:
Melissia wrote:Gadhafi's son, Mutassim, and his chief of intelligence, Abdullah al-Senussi, have been killed, according to Anees al-Sharif, spokesman for AbdelHakim Belhajj of the Tripoli military council.

That's going a bit to far.

Is it? Those two may have been responsible for the rape, torture and murder of hundreds of people. They may have been resisting capture. Let's reserve judgement.


Khaddafy kaputt?  @ 2011/10/20 14:59:53


Post by: whigwam


Chowderhead wrote:
Melissia wrote:Gadhafi's son, Mutassim, and his chief of intelligence, Abdullah al-Senussi, have been killed, according to Anees al-Sharif, spokesman for AbdelHakim Belhajj of the Tripoli military council.

That's going a bit to far.


They were part of the same regime, it's not hard to imagine they were killed in combat or while resisting capture. It's also not hard to imagine they were captured and summarily executed. Either way, I think the thought is that the regime must be wiped out. That is very sensible if you consider what surviving remnants of the Baath party did in Iraq.


Khaddafy kaputt?  @ 2011/10/20 15:01:58


Post by: Frazzled



No, because I'm British. Him no longer breathing would be enough for me - I wouldn't cheapen myself by behaving like a monkey.


Er, Wiliam Wallace might disagree with you.


Khaddafy kaputt?  @ 2011/10/20 15:03:05


Post by: halonachos


Samus_aran115 wrote:At least we don't have to look at his atrocious uniform ever again.


Fashion crime deserves the most severe of punishments and the Libyans are the first to recognize that fact. Soon all of the middle east will be filled with well groomed and well dressed people, along with smouldering pyres of those who aren't well dressed or well groomed.


Khaddafy kaputt?  @ 2011/10/20 15:03:08


Post by: Frazzled


Chowderhead wrote:
Albatross wrote:
Chowderhead wrote:Wouldn't you want to do that, as well?

You have a leader who has oppressed you, killed your people, and has lied about it for 50 years. Then, when you say you've had enough, he sets the army on you.

No, because I'm British. Him no longer breathing would be enough for me - I wouldn't cheapen myself by behaving like a monkey.

Yes, but us Americans would tie him to the back of our Dodge Ram and drive him down Route 66.


Because you had to go there.



Khaddafy kaputt?  @ 2011/10/20 15:06:21


Post by: halonachos


Frazzled wrote:

No, because I'm British. Him no longer breathing would be enough for me - I wouldn't cheapen myself by behaving like a monkey.


Er, Wiliam Wallace might disagree with you.


And Joan of Arc, she thinks the stakes are low enough to risk it and has been burning to get some revenge.


Khaddafy kaputt?  @ 2011/10/20 15:11:45


Post by: Medium of Death


whigwam wrote:
Medium of Death wrote:

GADDAFI


Are you facepalming because you think there's a correct way to spell it? Arab names typically have no standard anglicization.


Troll on love.

The most commonly accepted name is Gaddafi. There is no Y in any of the spellings.

"Muammar Gaddafi" is the spelling used by TIME, Newsweek, Reuters, BBC News, the majority of the British press and by the English service of Al-Jazeera


Khaddafy kaputt?  @ 2011/10/20 15:17:33


Post by: whigwam


Medium of Death wrote:
whigwam wrote:
Medium of Death wrote:

GADDAFI


Are you facepalming because you think there's a correct way to spell it? Arab names typically have no standard anglicization.


Troll on love.

The most commonly accepted name is Gaddafi. There is no Y in any of the spellings.

"Muammar Gaddafi" is the spelling used by TIME, Newsweek, Reuters, BBC News, the majority of the British press and by the English service of Al-Jazeera


Troll? I think I just taught you something useful. It is much like arguments over how to spell al-Qaida (al Qaeda?) or Osama (Usama?). There is no correct answer because it is all transliteration.

As for your no 'y' theory: MSNBC has used Khaddafy. Next time Google before trying to be authoritative on a subject.


Khaddafy kaputt?  @ 2011/10/20 15:19:08


Post by: Rented Tritium


Medium of Death wrote:
whigwam wrote:
Medium of Death wrote:

GADDAFI


Are you facepalming because you think there's a correct way to spell it? Arab names typically have no standard anglicization.


Troll on love.

The most commonly accepted name is Gaddafi. There is no Y in any of the spellings.

"Muammar Gaddafi" is the spelling used by TIME, Newsweek, Reuters, BBC News, the majority of the British press and by the English service of Al-Jazeera


I'm pretty sure the man himself spelled it a half dozen ways when he had things written in english.


Khaddafy kaputt?  @ 2011/10/20 15:30:33


Post by: Frazzled


Medium of Death wrote:
whigwam wrote:
Medium of Death wrote:

GADDAFI


Are you facepalming because you think there's a correct way to spell it? Arab names typically have no standard anglicization.


Troll on love.

The most commonly accepted name is Gaddafi. There is no Y in any of the spellings.

"Muammar Gaddafi" is the spelling used by TIME, Newsweek, Reuters, BBC News, the majority of the British press and by the English service of Al-Jazeera


Back before your daddy met your mommy, got drunk, and made you, it was boyo...


Khaddafy kaputt?  @ 2011/10/20 15:34:12


Post by: Medium of Death


I'll not jump into an arguement so readily next time. Although Biccat does post an interesting article.

My problem stemmed from there not being a standardised spelling. Is it so hard to get a name nailed down?


Frazzled wrote:

Back before your daddy met your mommy, got drunk, and made you, it was boyo...


What?


Khaddafy kaputt?  @ 2011/10/20 15:36:39


Post by: Frazzled


In the 80s the correct nomenclature typically began with a Kh and ended with a y. I think I might even have an old Newsweek somewhere with him on the cover.


Khaddafy kaputt?  @ 2011/10/20 15:41:32


Post by: Orlanth




[youtube= http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MlNM70ul42c&feature=player_embedded ]

'Daffi is dead. The only dispute is over what killed him. Some reports say his convoy was straffed by NATO aircraft trying to flee Sirte, others say he died in the city to small arms fire.

whigwam wrote:A mod already had to remove these images once. You might want to make an edit, Orlanth.


Ok. Denaturing links.


Khaddafy kaputt?  @ 2011/10/20 15:44:03


Post by: whigwam


A mod already had to remove these images once. You might want to make an edit, Orlanth.


Khaddafy kaputt?  @ 2011/10/20 15:47:30


Post by: Ouze


biccat wrote:



Hey, great picture. Is this from when the US normalized relations with Libya?

Oh, wait. That embrace of this horrible monster started when Republicans controlled the House, Senate, and the Presidency. Bush pushed for ending sanctions there, and Obama helped end him, instead.

But, hey, good try trying to awkwardly shoehorn in your deflective, partisan agenda anyway! I look forward to you continuing to do so no matter how tangentially related the topic.




Khaddafy kaputt?  @ 2011/10/20 15:49:48


Post by: Melissia


Ouze: Oh please, we all know Obama's a horrible monster, and the antichrist.


Khaddafy kaputt?  @ 2011/10/20 15:50:29


Post by: Ouze


Truly he's history's greatest monster.


Khaddafy kaputt?  @ 2011/10/20 15:56:35


Post by: Frazzled


Ouze wrote:Truly he's history's greatest monster.

Wait I thought that was Godzilla, King of the Monsters?


Khaddafy kaputt?  @ 2011/10/20 16:10:48


Post by: biccat


Ouze wrote:Hey, great picture. Is this from when the US normalized relations with Libya?

No, actually if you would notice, the guy on the right side of that picture is actually the 44th President of the United States. Were you confused by the ears that he was somehow George Bush?

The process of normalizing relations with Libya during the Bush administration wasn't simply based on Bush deciding he liked Ghadafi, it was based on actions taken by the Libyan government, from your link:
On December 19, 2003, Libya announced its intention to rid itself of WMD and MTCR-class missile programs. Since that time, it has cooperated with the U.S., the U.K., the International Atomic Energy Agency, and the Organization for the Prohibition of Chemical Weapons toward these objectives. Libya has also signed the IAEA Additional Protocol and has become a State Party to the Chemical Weapons Convention.

This is what used to pass for foreign policy. When a country did something we liked we would reward them. When they didn't, we would punish them. Competency has since taken a back seat to putting on a good show.

(personal insults redacted from quote, as usual)


Khaddafy kaputt?  @ 2011/10/20 16:16:41


Post by: Melissia


Biccat: You're kinda missing the point.

It's an image of Senator Barrack Obama, not of President Barrack Obama.

Also, your double standards amuse me.


Khaddafy kaputt?  @ 2011/10/20 16:21:30


Post by: Orlanth


Ouze wrote:
biccat wrote:



Hey, great picture. Is this from when the US normalized relations with Libya?

Oh, wait. That embrace of this horrible monster started when Republicans controlled the House, Senate, and the Presidency. Bush pushed for ending sanctions there, and Obama helped end him. But, hey, good try trying to awkwardly shoehorn in your deflective, partisan agenda anyway! I look forward to you continuing to do so no matter how tangentially related the topic.


What I find odd is this article from Fox News:

http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2011/10/20/cant-argue-with-american-policy-now-qaddafis-dead-and-results-speak-for/

Fox News is not exactly known for being a pro Obama mouthpiece so I dont know whay they are starting now. About the only good thing Obama has done is kept his paws off this crisis and left it to the Italians, French and UK to pile on the NATO pressure. Great leadership?


Khaddafy kaputt?  @ 2011/10/20 16:23:12


Post by: Melissia


Isn't that good leadership-- getting other people to get their hands dirty so you don't have to?


Khaddafy kaputt?  @ 2011/10/20 16:26:51


Post by: Orlanth


Melissia wrote:Biccat: You're kinda missing the point.

It's an image of Senator Barrack Obama, not of President Barrack Obama.

Also, your double standards amuse me.


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/picturegalleries/worldnews/8343250/Libyas-leader-Colonel-Muammar-Gaddafi-in-pictures.html?image=22

This picture was from 9th July 2009

Gaddaffi was wearing the same clothes, as was Obama.

Two options here:

1. Gaddaffi and Obama dont change their clothes often.
2. Your talking bollocks Melissia.



Khaddafy kaputt?  @ 2011/10/20 16:27:32


Post by: biccat


Melissia wrote:It's an image of Senator Barrack Obama, not of President Barrack Obama.

Well, I suppose it's technically possible that he was still a Senator in July 2009, but I thought he quit that job a couple years in.

I'll just leave this here and place you on ignore, rather than get myself in trouble.


Khaddafy kaputt?  @ 2011/10/20 16:29:05


Post by: Melissia


Seeing as you provided a source to back up your assertions (unlike Biccat, as usual), I'm willing to back off. Would like to know the context though.


Khaddafy kaputt?  @ 2011/10/20 16:31:44


Post by: Ouze


biccat wrote:(personal insults redacted from quote, as usual)


I don't think calling people out on partisan hackery is a personal insult, per se. But, by all means, what were you trying to say when you showed a picture of Obama with Gaddafi? Were you trying to say something other then to try and link the president with a dictator? Enlighten me, for I wish to know.

I mean, I understand why you'd want to spin this moment, don't get me wrong. When Obama's foreign policy now includes making the calls that put Osama Bin Laden & Moammar Gaddafi in pine boxes, and the frontrunning GOP candidate's foreign policy calls for putting an electrified fence on our border) (oh wait, that was a joke) (oh wait, it wasn't), and proudly proclaiming he doesn't know and doesn't care about one of our important allies for resupplying troops in Afghanistan, well, I guess I'd be pretty desperate to deflect attention elsewhere too.


Khaddafy kaputt?  @ 2011/10/20 16:52:09


Post by: biccat


Ouze wrote:But, by all means, what were you trying to say when you showed a picture of Obama with Gaddafi? Were you trying to say something other then to try and link the president with a dictator? Enlighten me, for I wish to know.

I figured the picture speaks for itself. It's a photo of President Obama being the first president in history to shake hands with Ghadafi. Who he then helped overthrow.

When you're going to try to engage in foreign policy (emphasis on try), consistency usually seems to be a good plan. Not so for the boy-wonder.

Ouze wrote:I mean, I understand why you'd want to spin this moment, don't get me wrong.

Not at all, I think it's great that Ghadafi is dead. But unlike the president, I never shook the guy's hand. Of course, given the opportunity, I wouldn't have. Remember the "new tone"?

Ouze wrote:When Obama's foreign policy now includes making the calls that put Osama Bin Laden & Moammar Gaddafi in pine boxes, and the frontrunning GOP candidate's foreign policy...

First of all, Cain isn't the frontrunning GOP candidate. I believe the latest poll had him tied with Romney. Second, the election won't be won or lost on foreign policy. Third, the president has plenty of foreign policy failures to go along with his successes. Remember his gift to the Queen (note that I'd normally have no problem insulting the British royalty, it's when he thinks he's doing something right and completely feths it up that we have a problem)?

SCOAMF sums it up quite nicely, actually.


Khaddafy kaputt?  @ 2011/10/20 17:01:50


Post by: Ouze


Geez, I kinda would have rather have had the Ipod.


Khaddafy kaputt?  @ 2011/10/20 17:02:59


Post by: Rented Tritium


biccat wrote: consistency usually seems to be a good plan. Not so for the boy-wonder.


You JUST made a post about how it was appropriate to normalize relations with them in 2003.


Khaddafy kaputt?  @ 2011/10/20 17:07:18


Post by: biccat


Ouze wrote:Geez, I kinda would have rather have had the Ipod.

But you're not the head of state of a G8 country with a personal wealth of hundreds of millions of dollars. A free ipod is probably pretty neat.

Rented Tritium wrote:You JUST made a post about how it was appropriate to normalize relations with them in 2003.

Yes, in exchange for concessions made by the Libyan government.


Khaddafy kaputt?  @ 2011/10/20 17:15:34


Post by: Ouze


biccat wrote:
Ouze wrote:Geez, I kinda would have rather have had the Ipod.

But you're not the head of state of a G8 country with a personal wealth of hundreds of millions of dollars. A free ipod is probably pretty neat.


If you only knew how many monkeys I punched to try and get that free Ipod.


Khaddafy kaputt?  @ 2011/10/20 17:48:57


Post by: dogma


biccat wrote:
This is what used to pass for foreign policy. When a country did something we liked we would reward them. When they didn't, we would punish them. Competency has since taken a back seat to putting on a good show.


Is that why we spent/spend so much time punishing the Saud family for allowing so many of their subjects to fund Hamas? Or why we took military aid away from Pakistan when they refused to grant formal air space rights to our drones?

Foreign policy is much more complicated than you're indicating.

Ouze wrote:
I don't think calling people out on partisan hackery is a personal insult, per se.


Especially someone who isn't above levying similar charges.

biccat wrote:




Shockingly, Presidents have to make concessions for the sake of diplomacy.

biccat wrote:
But you're not the head of state of a G8 country with a personal wealth of hundreds of millions of dollars. A free ipod is probably pretty neat.


Diplomatic gifts are not generally of significance to the person they are given to. Usually they are prominent artifacts of the giving nation's industrial process, or things that represent the culture of the giving nation, which we can all agree is true of the iPod; considering its ubiquity (possibly in both senses). For example, Sarkozy gave Michelle Obama a Christian Dior (famous French design firm) handbag. And the Queen, in the exchange in question, gave Obama a framed picture of herself.


Khaddafy kaputt?  @ 2011/10/20 18:19:02


Post by: JEB_Stuart


I saw this and couldn't resist


Khaddafy kaputt?  @ 2011/10/20 18:29:41


Post by: mattyrm


JEB_Stuart wrote:I saw this and couldn't resist


lol.

Where ya been Jeb? Still rocking the tweed suit?


Khaddafy kaputt?  @ 2011/10/20 18:33:07


Post by: Rented Tritium


Genius


Khaddafy kaputt?  @ 2011/10/20 18:38:23


Post by: Flashman


Well, that's another one gone. Hope the new Libyan government make a better fist of regime change than Afghanistan and Iraq.


Khaddafy kaputt?  @ 2011/10/20 18:43:13


Post by: Ouze


JEB_Stuart wrote:I saw this and couldn't resist


I laughed pretty hard at this.


Khaddafy kaputt?  @ 2011/10/20 18:48:35


Post by: Grimtuff


mattyrm wrote:
JEB_Stuart wrote:I saw this and couldn't resist


lol.

Where ya been Jeb? Still rocking the tweed suit?


What are you talking about, that's totally Jackie Stallone.


Khaddafy kaputt?  @ 2011/10/20 18:54:00


Post by: JEB_Stuart


mattyrm wrote: Where ya been Jeb? Still rocking the tweed suit?
Well Matt, I have sold my life and livelihood to corporate America. I do wish I could contribute more here on Dakka, but I am somewhat limited on time. I will make an attempt to be more active. And yes, of course I still rock the tweed suit! Even at work sometimes


Khaddafy kaputt?  @ 2011/10/20 19:14:46


Post by: mattyrm


JEB_Stuart wrote:
mattyrm wrote: Where ya been Jeb? Still rocking the tweed suit?
Well Matt, I have sold my life and livelihood to corporate America. I do wish I could contribute more here on Dakka, but I am somewhat limited on time. I will make an attempt to be more active. And yes, of course I still rock the tweed suit! Even at work sometimes


Ah man, that sucks. I earn a relatively small wage these days, but I work feth all hours.

I think money really isn't that important...

Well, as long as you can aford to get drunk ten times a month.

And I can do that.


Khaddafy kaputt?  @ 2011/10/20 20:06:51


Post by: dogma


biccat wrote:
Anyway, I'm glad to see another dead terrorist, so yay for the Libyan rebels. Hopefully they don't go all theocratic like the dingbats in Egypt.


There's a distinction between an overt theocracy, and a state that is heavily influenced by religion. Actually, Egypt under Mubarak was a pretty good illustration of it.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
mattyrm wrote:I earn a relatively small wage these days, but I work feth all hours.


The trick is to find a job where you can get paid to screw around. So, basically, become a manager.


Khaddafy kaputt?  @ 2011/10/20 20:17:58


Post by: Frazzled


dogma wrote:
biccat wrote:
Anyway, I'm glad to see another dead terrorist, so yay for the Libyan rebels. Hopefully they don't go all theocratic like the dingbats in Egypt.


There's a distinction between an overt theocracy, and a state that is heavily influenced by religion. Actually, Egypt under Mubarak was a pretty good illustration of it.



I think he's referring to where Egypt may be heading.


Khaddafy kaputt?  @ 2011/10/20 20:21:10


Post by: dogma


Frazzled wrote:
I think he's referring to where Egypt may be heading.


Probably, but it seemed like a comment which had many similarities to the general conservative tendency to equate the influence of Islam with theocracy. A thing that has always struck me as strange given how many conservatives will defend the validity of Christian influence on the American system of government.

Not that there aren't legitimate reasons to suspect that Egypt will become a theocracy, there certainly are, its just a little premature to call it one way or the other.


Khaddafy kaputt?  @ 2011/10/20 20:22:57


Post by: Frazzled


dogma wrote:
Frazzled wrote:
I think he's referring to where Egypt may be heading.


Probably, but it seemed like a comment which had many similarities to the general conservative tendency to equate the influence of Islam with theocracy. A thing that has always struck me as strange given how many conservatives will defend the validity of Christian influence on the American system of government.

Wo, that went off on a tangent.

The trick is to find a job where you can get paid to screw around. So, basically, become a manager.


Indeed good sir, indeed.


Khaddafy kaputt?  @ 2011/10/20 21:01:31


Post by: dogma


Frazzled wrote:
Wo, that went off on a tangent.


Just explaining why I said what I said.

Frazzled wrote:
Indeed good sir, indeed.


I do actual work about 3 times more as a TA than I ever did managing a gym 80 hours per week, and I only actually work Monday, Wednesday, and Friday.

I miss the private sector.


Khaddafy kaputt?  @ 2011/10/21 08:22:20


Post by: Ouze


So, since we seem to have run the course on this thread, lets ask this:

Do you think it was right for the US to go into Libya to begin with?

I'm aware this may paint me as the worst sort of hypocrite (and hell, maybe I am), since I clearly am pleased with the results, but I'll be honest anyway. At the time I thought it was a bad idea. I didn't think it was our fight. I didn't see why it was right for us to justify using force to help overthrow this bad man, when there are so very many bad men out there that we will happily embrace if we need them in some way. We certainly are willing to overlook the human rights abuses in countries we can't use (like Syria or Yemen) or that we cannot bully (like China). So what right did we have to risk the lives of US servicemen here (even if we did it in the most risk-free way humanly possible)? Is it that we have a duty to help spread democracy everywhere it might be flourishing? Even skipping the fact that we obviously don't do that, how is that different then some adherents of Islam claiming it should be spread by the sword?

I realize that peaceable discourse on this thread may be difficult due largely to my earlier, probably disproportionate vitriol, and I do regret that I went there, for what it's worth.


Khaddafy kaputt?  @ 2011/10/21 08:37:16


Post by: Phototoxin


Ouze the film you're looking for is Team America: World Police.


Khaddafy kaputt?  @ 2011/10/21 10:42:59


Post by: Albatross


In response to Ouze, I'd say that our countries intervened in Libya because they saw an opportunity to rid themselves of an odious little man who's been a thorn our sides for many years, indeed, has murdered our citizens. I think it's got little to do with spreading democracy, in truth.


Khaddafy kaputt?  @ 2011/10/21 11:18:52


Post by: Frazzled


dogma wrote:
Frazzled wrote:
Wo, that went off on a tangent.


Just explaining why I said what I said.

Frazzled wrote:
Indeed good sir, indeed.


I do actual work about 3 times more as a TA than I ever did managing a gym 80 hours per week, and I only actually work Monday, Wednesday, and Friday.

I miss the private sector.


yes I have minions for that whole work thing.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Albatross wrote:In response to Ouze, I'd say that our countries intervened in Libya because they saw an opportunity to rid themselves of an odious little man who's been a thorn our sides for many years, indeed, has murdered our citizens. I think it's got little to do with spreading democracy, in truth.


true dat. Also a lot to do with protecting BP and Total.

but he's a killer, a killer of Americans and Brits, so its good he's gone. Zombie Reagan is downing a cold one in celebration.


Khaddafy kaputt?  @ 2011/10/21 12:06:07


Post by: filbert


Hopefully, we will see a drop in oil prices too as an added benefit. The cost of fuel here in the UK is nuts.


Khaddafy kaputt?  @ 2011/10/21 12:57:02


Post by: Rented Tritium


The rebels were being hit with things they couldn't reasonably defend against. Helping only really required airstrikes. That's the kind of intervention we're quite good at.


Khaddafy kaputt?  @ 2011/10/21 13:21:54


Post by: Easy E


So, here is a question that has bothered me and I am looking fo ryou all for insight.

Why Lidya, Yes and Syria No? Pretty much the same set-up.

The only difference I see is geography and the lay-out of the UN security council of Syrian allies as opposed to Libya's allies.

Dang, I hope some of that made sense.


Khaddafy kaputt?  @ 2011/10/21 13:50:16


Post by: Ketara


The US went into Libya? I thought it was a French/British operation?

I swear I even remember reading Obama saying he wanted nothing to do with it.


Khaddafy kaputt?  @ 2011/10/21 13:56:26


Post by: whigwam


Ketara wrote:The US went into Libya? I thought it was a French/British operation?

I swear I even remember reading Obama saying he wanted nothing to do with it.


It is a NATO operation. The US has participated in airstrikes, using everything from Tomahawk missiles to stealth bombers to UAVs. We also have a number of CIA agents on the ground gathering intelligence.

The French and British have taken the lead enforcing the no-fly zone, but the US is decidedly involved in the conflict.


Khaddafy kaputt?  @ 2011/10/21 13:58:26


Post by: halonachos


Ketara wrote:The US went into Libya? I thought it was a French/British operation?

I swear I even remember reading Obama saying he wanted nothing to do with it.


Nope, we bombed the living hell out of them. I think I saw a report that said that the US dropped more bombs than the other two nations combined.


Khaddafy kaputt?  @ 2011/10/21 13:59:49


Post by: Barksdale


I thought it was a disgrace airing video of the former dictator being dragged by his hair and kicked around by the Libyan militias. No matter he did in the past he was murdered in cold blood. The murdering of opponenets was a trait of Ghadafi and should not have been allowed to occur. I just hope this is not a sign to come for the new regime, however, I fear someone new will seize power, perhaps under the guise of democracy, but definately in one way or another.


Khaddafy kaputt?  @ 2011/10/21 14:23:11


Post by: mattyrm


halonachos wrote:
Ketara wrote:The US went into Libya? I thought it was a French/British operation?

I swear I even remember reading Obama saying he wanted nothing to do with it.


Nope, we bombed the living hell out of them. I think I saw a report that said that the US dropped more bombs than the other two nations combined.


Makes sense, the French cant fly planes to save their lives. We had French air support twice during my 6 month in Helmand, and they were utterly fething dog gak. If it wasnt for the fact that I was there and thus the Taliban were scared witless, somebody might have got hurt!

We had the British about ten times, and they were merely good.

We had American air about 50 times, and they bombed the gak out of absolutely everything much to our delight.

And when the A-10s turned up (maybe 8-9 times) the death that they rained down was truly glorious to behold!

Sure, they might occasionally get fin lock and frag some allied soldiers, but thats gonna happpen when your dropping ten times the bombs that your allies do. You will never ever get an actual combat veteran from the British military say a single bad word about the US close air support.

They saved our asses on numerous occasions, and when we had three men down with gunshots, and Taliban engaging us from 11 different positions, we were fething praying it was Yank air, and not Frog air that turned up.

And it was!



Khaddafy kaputt?  @ 2011/10/21 14:37:25


Post by: halonachos


Sadly, it is supposed that a French strike that halted his convoy and led to the rebels finding and killing Ghaddafi. But Matty, if you want to we could say that they were aiming to kill Ghaddafi with the strike but missed his vehicle and hit another one.


Khaddafy kaputt?  @ 2011/10/21 14:39:17


Post by: mattyrm


Maybe they had an American exchange student flying a French jet?


Khaddafy kaputt?  @ 2011/10/21 19:28:02


Post by: dogma


Ouze wrote: Is it that we have a duty to help spread democracy everywhere it might be flourishing? Even skipping the fact that we obviously don't do that, how is that different then some adherents of Islam claiming it should be spread by the sword?


Well, for one, spreading democracy is (supposedly) beneficial to us, whereas the spreading of radical Islam is not.

In any case, we saw an opportunity to expedite the removal of a problematic dictator, so we took it.


Khaddafy kaputt?  @ 2011/10/21 19:39:16


Post by: Chibi Bodge-Battle


Let's see Libya has a twitpot dictator
send in the drones

Why not a decapitation in, lets' say for example, Zimbabwe.

What is the difference.

Oil reserves in Libya are the largest in Africa and the ninth largest in the world with 41.5 billion barrels (6.60×109 m3) as of 2007. Oil production was 1.8 million barrels per day (290×103 m3/d) as of 2006, giving Libya 23 years of reserves at current production rates if no new reserves were to be found. Libya is considered a highly attractive oil area due to its low cost of oil production (as low as $1 per barrel at some fields), and proximity to European markets. Libya would like to increase production from 1.8 Mbbl/d (290×103 m3/d) in 2006 to 3 Mbbl/d (480×103 m3/d) by 2010–13 but with existing oil fields undergoing a 7–8% decline rate, Libya's challenge is maintaining production at mature fields, while finding and developing new oil fields. Most of Libya remains unexplored as a result of past sanctions and disagreements with foreign oil companies.[1]



http://www.indexmundi.com/g/r.aspx?c=zi&v=88

scroll down to 207 if you want to find Zimbabwe on the list



Khaddafy kaputt?  @ 2011/10/21 21:52:48


Post by: Medium of Death


Saw those videos of his capture and subsequent beating/dragging live through the streets.

Kind of wished I hadn't.

All hail the new Libyan democracy...



Khaddafy kaputt?  @ 2011/10/21 22:06:12


Post by: dogma





Khaddafy kaputt?  @ 2011/10/21 22:33:56


Post by: Ouze


Well said on the GOT video.


Khaddafy kaputt?  @ 2011/10/21 22:35:44


Post by: Chibi Bodge-Battle


When you play the game of thrones you win or die?
That is a rather high forfeit for playing musical toilets.