They really do.

I could go out today, buy three Terminator boxes and a couple Stormravens, and have an 1850-point army that's only twelve infantry models and is actually competitive.

In other words, I could finally play the small, elite, hard-hitting Space Marine army that I've always dreamed of, one that lives up to all the fluff without completely sucking. Twelve dudes, taking down seventy-odd Dark Eldar, or God knows how many Tyranids, or whatever else. It's right out of a Black Library novel.

But...they're Grey Knights. They use psychic ammo and cargo loaders out of Aliens. They're all psykers. Kaldor Draigo.

Their bandwagon's getting awfully hard to avoid jumping on, and I truly hate them for that.

i dont hate them, i also have always wanted an elite army, but i think they are pretty cool fluffwise as well. The cost thing is sweet, a person can have 2000 point army for very cheap, it rocks.

dajobe wrote:i dont hate them, i also have always wanted an elite army, but i think they are pretty cool fluffwise as well. The cost thing is sweet, a person can have 2000 point army for very cheap, it rocks.

They shoot mind bullets, dude.

Of course you hate them. You just haven't realized it yet.

Why let the bandwagon put you down? It's just that, a bandwagon. Ignore it.

And you can always do a counts as army if your not fond of the models/fluff.

Soladrin wrote:Why let the bandwagon put you down? It's just that, a bandwagon. Ignore it.

And you can always do a counts as army if your not fond of the models/fluff.

There really are no counts-as alternatives for an army of Space Marine psykers that shoot mind bullets. Not even Thousand Sons really work.

Maybe I'll do Black Templars just to make everyone's head explode.

Crucible of Malediction

They're annoying, but manageable if you are able to hit them hard early on.

its like the Clint Eastwood effect...does he have it or does he not have it.....also a bit of mind play...."That Humacelous is like 12inches away..."

Seaward wrote:

Soladrin wrote:Why let the bandwagon put you down? It's just that, a bandwagon. Ignore it.

And you can always do a counts as army if your not fond of the models/fluff.

There really are no counts-as alternatives for an army of Space Marine psykers that shoot mind bullets. Not even Thousand Sons really work.

Thousands Sons work quite well, actually, though mostly pre-Heresy (or maybe transition period right before the Rubric).

Just exchange mind bullets with Inferno Bolts, and there you go.

Pretty much.

Just call 'em tratior Chaos Grey Knights.

play what you want to play. I'd rather go up against a draigo-wing GK list than a psyback/psyfleman spam GK list any day. You do have a point on the bandwagon being annoying though, I'm forcing myself no to play them. But I'll admit I do sometimes feel the call of the shiny cheese.

Call them Champions of Malal and let the rage come in waves.

Oh great, we're going to have ANOTHER thread about the Grey Knights. We're literally inside the Horse's grave beating it's rotten skeleton with our own decomposing leg.

iproxtaco wrote:Oh great, we're going to have ANOTHER thread about the Grey Knights. We're literally inside the Horse's grave beating it's rotten skeleton with our own decomposing leg.

This...

Please for the love of the Emperor, leave the grey knights alone...theirs no need to keep making GK hate threads


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Seaward wrote:

dajobe wrote:i dont hate them, i also have always wanted an elite army, but i think they are pretty cool fluffwise as well. The cost thing is sweet, a person can have 2000 point army for very cheap, it rocks.

They shoot mind bullets, dude.

Of course you hate them. You just haven't realized it yet.

So you're saying even if someone likes them...they hate them?

I think your either a troll, or just blinded by some unneeded rage to see that people have their own opinion...

Be like me!

When everyone starts GK, you start Tau.

Also, Purifier spam is wrong. Broken wrong. That is all.

Happygrunt wrote:Be like me!

When everyone starts GK, you start Tau.

Also, Purifier spam is wrong. Broken wrong. That is all.

Even better....QUICKLY START A NECRON ARMY! You only have till' November 5th!

We're getting that last bandwagon GK hate thread out of the way before the new bandwagon Necron hate starts?

Just my guess.

Bandwagons are not that hard to avoid.

I don't like playing Humans(imperium), since I can do that almost anywhere else, so Imperial Releases do not interest me.

Now Space Robot Egyptians(Necrons) That is something I cannot play in multiple settings and would totally buy into that in a heart beat if my wallet didn't have a gun to my head.

So Until my Wallet's demands are met, Daemons and Tau it is.

I was into necrons before they were part of the new codex bandwagon.

*Hipster Glasses*

CthuluIsSpy wrote:I was into necrons before they were part of the new codex bandwagon.

*Hipster Glasses*

My first army was Necrons, Painted using Testors Paint back in third.

I think I still have the Lord Somewhere. Didn't like the Glowing Green rods, so I trimmed down some Toothpicks and painted them the Testors Green.

You and your topic are boring and stale.

"Pours more Haterade for all around"

Well, at least the Grey Knights are not nearly as overpowered as the Necrons. Always getting up after you kill them and everything.

Belexar wrote:Well, at least the Grey Knights are not nearly as overpowered as the Necrons. Always getting up after you kill them and everything.

I know your joking, but I just couldn't laugh. Keep thinking how sad it is that people are really going to say this and most will not of even seen the Codex yet.

Be like me.

I've played GK since the last codex.

We were renovating the house, and most of my gaming stuff had to go into storage, so I chose the smallest army to remain out, so I could play games with it.

I've been playing GK for the last three months pretty much every weekend.
I've only seen ONE other GK player in that time at my club - and they were a blow-in from out of town.

There's the bandwagon, and not-giving-a-stuff-about-it-play-what-you-like camp. I'm in the latter.

At least I don't play spiky Dark Black Space Blood Wolf Templar Angel marines like several other guys in my club (they refuse to paint them as they say that will reduce their options - like CSM can't have blue armour or something. Codex defines your army, not the paintjob).

chromedog wrote:Be like me.

I've played GK since the last codex.

We were renovating the house, and most of my gaming stuff had to go into storage, so I chose the smallest army to remain out, so I could play games with it.

I've been playing GK for the last three months pretty much every weekend.
I've only seen ONE other GK player in that time at my club - and they were a blow-in from out of town.

There's the bandwagon, and not-giving-a-stuff-about-it-play-what-you-like camp. I'm in the latter.

At least I don't play spiky Dark Black Space Blood Wolf Templar Angel marines like several other guys in my club (they refuse to paint them as they say that will reduce their options - like CSM can't have blue armour or something. Codex defines your army, not the paintjob).

Neither codex NOR paint defines your army... you define it yourself. I'm painting a bunch of assault marines Green now, to act as Aurora 8th company. Its the wrong codex, its the wrong color, but its all tabletop legal and counts-as

Jihadin wrote:Crucible of Malediction

What Does the CoM have to do with the GK army?

Its not like it is all that effective.

I can't wait for all the Necron-Hate threads that will pop up with the new codex. Also looking forward to the inevitable Tau hate threads when they pop up.

I play GK, Tau, CSM, and Necron. If CSM gets a new codex anytime soon, I hope everyone hates that too; so that I can finally reach the point where no matter what army I bring to the table, all the space wolves and blood angels players can call cheese on me.

Remember all the DE are OP threads when that codex came out, where'd those go?

Seaward wrote:The same opinion about grey knights that everyone has now, but won't have once the next codex comes out.

I'm really glad my LGS has a really nice community and the only place i see this on Dakka, it gets old really fast.
My advice; quit complaining, it won't ever change anything.

I'm going to hate all the necron hate threads popping up...I really...really am...

Why are you complaining for no reason? This is just stupid. No need to hate GK so much.

iproxtaco wrote:Oh great, we're going to have ANOTHER thread about the Grey Knights. We're literally inside the Horse's grave beating it's rotten skeleton with our own decomposing leg.

That is one dead horse.

CpatTom wrote:

iproxtaco wrote:Oh great, we're going to have ANOTHER thread about the Grey Knights. We're literally inside the Horse's grave beating it's rotten skeleton with our own decomposing leg.

That is one dead horse.

It's not glue yet!
Now, I agree that some of the hate for each codex is unfounded and just popular hate, that doesn't mean there isn't some things wrong with each one. You can't just push aside every complaint with "haters gonna hate"

Luke_Prowler wrote:

CpatTom wrote:

iproxtaco wrote:Oh great, we're going to have ANOTHER thread about the Grey Knights. We're literally inside the Horse's grave beating it's rotten skeleton with our own decomposing leg.

That is one dead horse.

It's not glue yet!
Now, I agree that some of the hate for each codex is unfounded and just popular hate, that doesn't mean there isn't some things wrong with each one. You can't just push aside every complaint with "haters gonna hate"

That's not the point. I'm sure there are hundreds of t0t4l l3g1t reasons why the book is bad, but why oh why, do we have to go through them all again?

Any thread with Draigo or Grey Knight in it will already have at least one reason why they suck.

If you collect all the first letters from the second paragraph in each of the posts with a reason Grey Knights suck, Mat(t) Ward's secret will be revealed.

Go forth treasure hunter.

As has been pointed out by others:

I have the old metal models, they sucked then, I have done my time, I deserve this moment of fielding a deadly army. Bandwagon? I never got off till now... that sounded a bit wrong. ANYWAY for me gray(knight) is the new black (templar).

DeathReaper wrote:

Jihadin wrote:Crucible of Malediction

What Does the CoM have to do with the GK army?

Its not like it is all that effective.

Was until they used a FAQ to patch it up.

At least reading comprehension sucks equally everywhere.

That's why FAQs were invented I guess.

You could run them as custodes I guess just paint them gold and figure out what to do with the psyhic powers. I don't remember if custodes have any but the idea could work.

They do not, but I'm sure something could be worked out.

This thread is matter of opinion, just because you think it doesn't make it true. It is a matter of personal opinion. I personally don't like the way that Grey Knights play, and I wouldn't start a Grey Knight army myself, but does that mean that no-one else likes them? No.

And if you are refering to the army as a whole, this statement is clearly false, you just need to go and look at all of the many other Grey Knight hate threads and all of the people screaming 'OP!' to notice that.

Still I am going to be disapointed when the inevitable happens and hate threads spring up for Necrons, especially considering that I have been playing them for a while and haven't just started them because of the new Codex.

Rampage wrote:This thread is matter of opinion, just because you think it doesn't make it true. It is a matter of personal opinion. I personally don't like the way that Grey Knights play, and I wouldn't start a Grey Knight army myself, but does that mean that no-one else likes them? No.

And if you are refering to the army as a whole, this statement is clearly false, you just need to go and look at all of the many other Grey Knight hate threads and all of the people screaming 'OP!' to notice that.

Still I am going to be disapointed when the inevitable happens and hate threads spring up for Necrons, especially considering that I have been playing them for a while and haven't just started them because of the new Codex.

Don't mention opinions in front of Iproxtaco, Omegus, or Cpattom......

They think their opinions are facts...

I quite like them...
I like all the races actually...
I used to dislike Tau but frankly i don't anymore. They could be worse and their change from innocent naivety to ruthless dictatorship is an interesting one.

Grey Knights are cool.

bombboy1252 wrote:

Rampage wrote:This thread is matter of opinion, just because you think it doesn't make it true. It is a matter of personal opinion. I personally don't like the way that Grey Knights play, and I wouldn't start a Grey Knight army myself, but does that mean that no-one else likes them? No.

And if you are refering to the army as a whole, this statement is clearly false, you just need to go and look at all of the many other Grey Knight hate threads and all of the people screaming 'OP!' to notice that.

Still I am going to be disapointed when the inevitable happens and hate threads spring up for Necrons, especially considering that I have been playing them for a while and haven't just started them because of the new Codex.

Don't mention opinions in front of Iproxtaco, Omegus, or Cpattom......

They think their opinions are facts...

Well yes, naturally, our opinions are facts to us. Is your opinion fact to you? If it's not then you have doubts over whether you're right or not. You can have your opinion, that doesn't mean what you think isn't wrong in eyes of others. You were using "oh but it's my opinion" as a shield to avoid criticism or having to actually resond to the point in case. Oh, and it's a lower case 'i'.

iproxtaco wrote:

bombboy1252 wrote:

Rampage wrote:This thread is matter of opinion, just because you think it doesn't make it true. It is a matter of personal opinion. I personally don't like the way that Grey Knights play, and I wouldn't start a Grey Knight army myself, but does that mean that no-one else likes them? No.

And if you are refering to the army as a whole, this statement is clearly false, you just need to go and look at all of the many other Grey Knight hate threads and all of the people screaming 'OP!' to notice that.

Still I am going to be disapointed when the inevitable happens and hate threads spring up for Necrons, especially considering that I have been playing them for a while and haven't just started them because of the new Codex.

Don't mention opinions in front of Iproxtaco, Omegus, or Cpattom......

They think their opinions are facts...

Well yes, naturally, our opinions are facts to us. Is your opinion fact to you? If it's not then you have doubts over whether you're right or not. You can have your opinion, that doesn't mean what you think isn't wrong in eyes of others. You were using "oh but it's my opinion" as a shield to avoid criticism or having to actually resond to the point in case. Oh, and it's a lower case 'i'.

Sense when have I said my opinions are facts, the only time I said that was when I was being sarcastic in the Draigo hate thread, and no I wasn't using "oh but it's my opinion" as a criticism "shield"

You just fail to see my way of looking at the same things you point out about Draigo and Ward, and I fail to see your way of looking at it, so instead of going back and forth on this, how about we agree to disagree....

bombboy1252 wrote:

iproxtaco wrote:

bombboy1252 wrote:

Rampage wrote:This thread is matter of opinion, just because you think it doesn't make it true. It is a matter of personal opinion. I personally don't like the way that Grey Knights play, and I wouldn't start a Grey Knight army myself, but does that mean that no-one else likes them? No.

And if you are refering to the army as a whole, this statement is clearly false, you just need to go and look at all of the many other Grey Knight hate threads and all of the people screaming 'OP!' to notice that.

Still I am going to be disapointed when the inevitable happens and hate threads spring up for Necrons, especially considering that I have been playing them for a while and haven't just started them because of the new Codex.

Don't mention opinions in front of Iproxtaco, Omegus, or Cpattom......

They think their opinions are facts...

Well yes, naturally, our opinions are facts to us. Is your opinion fact to you? If it's not then you have doubts over whether you're right or not. You can have your opinion, that doesn't mean what you think isn't wrong in eyes of others. You were using "oh but it's my opinion" as a shield to avoid criticism or having to actually resond to the point in case. Oh, and it's a lower case 'i'.

Sense when have I said my opinions are facts, the only time I said that was when I was being sarcastic in the Draigo hate thread, and no I wasn't using "oh but it's my opinion" as a criticism "shield"

An opinion is fact to the subject. And yes, you were, several times and I pointed out as such.

You just fail to see my way of looking at the same things you point out about Draigo and Ward, and I fail to see your way of looking at it, so instead of going back and forth on this, how about we agree to disagree....

I don't fail to see your way of looking at it, I know exactly what you mean, what your point of view is, what your opinion is, I just disagree, and think you're wrong.

iproxtaco wrote:

bombboy1252 wrote:

iproxtaco wrote:

bombboy1252 wrote:

Rampage wrote:This thread is matter of opinion, just because you think it doesn't make it true. It is a matter of personal opinion. I personally don't like the way that Grey Knights play, and I wouldn't start a Grey Knight army myself, but does that mean that no-one else likes them? No.

And if you are refering to the army as a whole, this statement is clearly false, you just need to go and look at all of the many other Grey Knight hate threads and all of the people screaming 'OP!' to notice that.

Still I am going to be disapointed when the inevitable happens and hate threads spring up for Necrons, especially considering that I have been playing them for a while and haven't just started them because of the new Codex.

Don't mention opinions in front of Iproxtaco, Omegus, or Cpattom......

They think their opinions are facts...

Well yes, naturally, our opinions are facts to us. Is your opinion fact to you? If it's not then you have doubts over whether you're right or not. You can have your opinion, that doesn't mean what you think isn't wrong in eyes of others. You were using "oh but it's my opinion" as a shield to avoid criticism or having to actually resond to the point in case. Oh, and it's a lower case 'i'.

Sense when have I said my opinions are facts, the only time I said that was when I was being sarcastic in the Draigo hate thread, and no I wasn't using "oh but it's my opinion" as a criticism "shield"

An opinion is fact to the subject. And yes, you were, several times and I pointed out as such.

You just fail to see my way of looking at the same things you point out about Draigo and Ward, and I fail to see your way of looking at it, so instead of going back and forth on this, how about we agree to disagree....

I don't fail to see your way of looking at it, I know exactly what you mean, what your point of view is, what your opinion is, I just disagree, and think you're wrong.

I never once intended to use "opinions" as a shield, you must have read it wrong, because how you look at Draigo IS an OPINION! An opinion. "The difference between fact and opinion is that a fact is something that is empirically true and can be supported by evidence, while an opinion is a belief that may or may not be backed up with some type of evidence." you believe Draigo is a product of bad writing and I believe Draigo is a tragic tale of what the Grey Knights are doing as a whole. All the "Facts" that you have pointed out, are from Draigo's 2 pages of codex, which I could use to support "Facts" as well...

What's the point of this argument anyway? One side says "my opinion is right, your's is wrong", the other mirrors it. Just going in circles in my opinion.

n0t_u wrote:What's the point of this argument anyway? One side says "my opinion is right, your's is wrong", the other mirrors it. Just going in circles in my opinion.

No, I keep saying it's all opinion, and than he says I just say that so I don't have to take criticism or something...read the Draigo thread in the background sub forum...

bombboy1252 wrote:

n0t_u wrote:What's the point of this argument anyway? One side says "my opinion is right, your's is wrong", the other mirrors it. Just going in circles in my opinion.

No, I keep saying it's all opinion, and than he says I just say that so I don't have to take criticism or something...read the Draigo thread in the background sub forum...

No that's not what I say. You make your point, and someone disagrees. You then dodge having to actually respond with a coherent statement by saying "that's just your opinion". It's the mark of a man who has nothing back up his beliefs.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

bombboy1252 wrote:

iproxtaco wrote:

bombboy1252 wrote:

iproxtaco wrote:

bombboy1252 wrote:

Rampage wrote:This thread is matter of opinion, just because you think it doesn't make it true. It is a matter of personal opinion. I personally don't like the way that Grey Knights play, and I wouldn't start a Grey Knight army myself, but does that mean that no-one else likes them? No.

And if you are refering to the army as a whole, this statement is clearly false, you just need to go and look at all of the many other Grey Knight hate threads and all of the people screaming 'OP!' to notice that.

Still I am going to be disapointed when the inevitable happens and hate threads spring up for Necrons, especially considering that I have been playing them for a while and haven't just started them because of the new Codex.

Don't mention opinions in front of Iproxtaco, Omegus, or Cpattom......

They think their opinions are facts...

Well yes, naturally, our opinions are facts to us. Is your opinion fact to you? If it's not then you have doubts over whether you're right or not. You can have your opinion, that doesn't mean what you think isn't wrong in eyes of others. You were using "oh but it's my opinion" as a shield to avoid criticism or having to actually resond to the point in case. Oh, and it's a lower case 'i'.

Sense when have I said my opinions are facts, the only time I said that was when I was being sarcastic in the Draigo hate thread, and no I wasn't using "oh but it's my opinion" as a criticism "shield"

An opinion is fact to the subject. And yes, you were, several times and I pointed out as such.

You just fail to see my way of looking at the same things you point out about Draigo and Ward, and I fail to see your way of looking at it, so instead of going back and forth on this, how about we agree to disagree....

I don't fail to see your way of looking at it, I know exactly what you mean, what your point of view is, what your opinion is, I just disagree, and think you're wrong.

I never once intended to use "opinions" as a shield, you must have read it wrong, because how you look at Draigo IS an OPINION! An opinion. "The difference between fact and opinion is that a fact is something that is empirically true and can be supported by evidence, while an opinion is a belief that may or may not be backed up with some type of evidence." you believe Draigo is a product of bad writing and I believe Draigo is a tragic tale of what the Grey Knights are doing as a whole. All the "Facts" that you have pointed out, are from Draigo's 2 pages of codex, which I could use to support "Facts" as well...

Yeah I get that it's an opinion, but you're still wrong, because you aren't using all the information to back your opinion.

bombboy1252 wrote:

n0t_u wrote:What's the point of this argument anyway? One side says "my opinion is right, your's is wrong", the other mirrors it. Just going in circles in my opinion.

No, I keep saying it's all opinion, and than he says I just say that so I don't have to take criticism or something...read the Draigo thread in the background sub forum...

In our defense. That argument devolved after quite an extended debate.

I do, very much dislike opinions without basis of support (almost irrationally so). This is why I tried to create a thread about which color was most powerful in the rainbow spectrum (this based on the arguments on the Thread for most powerful primarchs).

Opinion, as, stated, are without evidence, and thus do nothing but sit there. They cannot be approached with skepticism, they cannot be called into question, and they cannot improve knowledge or reasoning of anyone involved. As such, I think people should presents facts thats allow for reasonable debate, because this leads to a greater understanding, through the use of knowledge, of both the material at hand, as well as a greater introspective understanding of oneself, through insight into the interpretations of the available material.

iproxtaco wrote:

bombboy1252 wrote:

n0t_u wrote:What's the point of this argument anyway? One side says "my opinion is right, your's is wrong", the other mirrors it. Just going in circles in my opinion.

No, I keep saying it's all opinion, and than he says I just say that so I don't have to take criticism or something...read the Draigo thread in the background sub forum...

No that's not what I say. You make your point, and someone disagrees. You then dodge having to actually respond with a coherent statement by saying "that's just your opinion". It's the mark of a man who has nothing back up his beliefs.

Than please, post something here that backs up your beliefs.
I believe I have backed up mine, I have stated that whatever Draigo does, is rebuilt, resurrected or re-grows. Just like what the Grey Knights do as an entire force every day...

CthuluIsSpy wrote:I was into necrons before they were part of the new codex bandwagon.

*Hipster Glasses*

Try being a legacy GK player...

iproxtaco wrote:

bombboy1252 wrote:

n0t_u wrote:What's the point of this argument anyway? One side says "my opinion is right, your's is wrong", the other mirrors it. Just going in circles in my opinion.

No, I keep saying it's all opinion, and than he says I just say that so I don't have to take criticism or something...read the Draigo thread in the background sub forum...

No that's not what I say. You make your point, and someone disagrees. You then dodge having to actually respond with a coherent statement by saying "that's just your opinion". It's the mark of a man who has nothing back up his beliefs.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

bombboy1252 wrote:

iproxtaco wrote:

bombboy1252 wrote:

iproxtaco wrote:

bombboy1252 wrote:

Rampage wrote:This thread is matter of opinion, just because you think it doesn't make it true. It is a matter of personal opinion. I personally don't like the way that Grey Knights play, and I wouldn't start a Grey Knight army myself, but does that mean that no-one else likes them? No.

And if you are refering to the army as a whole, this statement is clearly false, you just need to go and look at all of the many other Grey Knight hate threads and all of the people screaming 'OP!' to notice that.

Still I am going to be disapointed when the inevitable happens and hate threads spring up for Necrons, especially considering that I have been playing them for a while and haven't just started them because of the new Codex.

Don't mention opinions in front of Iproxtaco, Omegus, or Cpattom......

They think their opinions are facts...

Well yes, naturally, our opinions are facts to us. Is your opinion fact to you? If it's not then you have doubts over whether you're right or not. You can have your opinion, that doesn't mean what you think isn't wrong in eyes of others. You were using "oh but it's my opinion" as a shield to avoid criticism or having to actually resond to the point in case. Oh, and it's a lower case 'i'.

Sense when have I said my opinions are facts, the only time I said that was when I was being sarcastic in the Draigo hate thread, and no I wasn't using "oh but it's my opinion" as a criticism "shield"

An opinion is fact to the subject. And yes, you were, several times and I pointed out as such.

You just fail to see my way of looking at the same things you point out about Draigo and Ward, and I fail to see your way of looking at it, so instead of going back and forth on this, how about we agree to disagree....

I don't fail to see your way of looking at it, I know exactly what you mean, what your point of view is, what your opinion is, I just disagree, and think you're wrong.

I never once intended to use "opinions" as a shield, you must have read it wrong, because how you look at Draigo IS an OPINION! An opinion. "The difference between fact and opinion is that a fact is something that is empirically true and can be supported by evidence, while an opinion is a belief that may or may not be backed up with some type of evidence." you believe Draigo is a product of bad writing and I believe Draigo is a tragic tale of what the Grey Knights are doing as a whole. All the "Facts" that you have pointed out, are from Draigo's 2 pages of codex, which I could use to support "Facts" as well...

Yeah I get that it's an opinion, but you're still wrong, because you aren't using all the information to back your opinion.

Thanks Bombboy, now I understand why.

Rampage wrote:

iproxtaco wrote:

bombboy1252 wrote:

n0t_u wrote:What's the point of this argument anyway? One side says "my opinion is right, your's is wrong", the other mirrors it. Just going in circles in my opinion.

No, I keep saying it's all opinion, and than he says I just say that so I don't have to take criticism or something...read the Draigo thread in the background sub forum...

No that's not what I say. You make your point, and someone disagrees. You then dodge having to actually respond with a coherent statement by saying "that's just your opinion". It's the mark of a man who has nothing back up his beliefs.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

bombboy1252 wrote:

iproxtaco wrote:

bombboy1252 wrote:

iproxtaco wrote:

bombboy1252 wrote:

Rampage wrote:This thread is matter of opinion, just because you think it doesn't make it true. It is a matter of personal opinion. I personally don't like the way that Grey Knights play, and I wouldn't start a Grey Knight army myself, but does that mean that no-one else likes them? No.

And if you are refering to the army as a whole, this statement is clearly false, you just need to go and look at all of the many other Grey Knight hate threads and all of the people screaming 'OP!' to notice that.

Still I am going to be disapointed when the inevitable happens and hate threads spring up for Necrons, especially considering that I have been playing them for a while and haven't just started them because of the new Codex.

Don't mention opinions in front of Iproxtaco, Omegus, or Cpattom......

They think their opinions are facts...

Well yes, naturally, our opinions are facts to us. Is your opinion fact to you? If it's not then you have doubts over whether you're right or not. You can have your opinion, that doesn't mean what you think isn't wrong in eyes of others. You were using "oh but it's my opinion" as a shield to avoid criticism or having to actually resond to the point in case. Oh, and it's a lower case 'i'.

Sense when have I said my opinions are facts, the only time I said that was when I was being sarcastic in the Draigo hate thread, and no I wasn't using "oh but it's my opinion" as a criticism "shield"

An opinion is fact to the subject. And yes, you were, several times and I pointed out as such.

You just fail to see my way of looking at the same things you point out about Draigo and Ward, and I fail to see your way of looking at it, so instead of going back and forth on this, how about we agree to disagree....

I don't fail to see your way of looking at it, I know exactly what you mean, what your point of view is, what your opinion is, I just disagree, and think you're wrong.

I never once intended to use "opinions" as a shield, you must have read it wrong, because how you look at Draigo IS an OPINION! An opinion. "The difference between fact and opinion is that a fact is something that is empirically true and can be supported by evidence, while an opinion is a belief that may or may not be backed up with some type of evidence." you believe Draigo is a product of bad writing and I believe Draigo is a tragic tale of what the Grey Knights are doing as a whole. All the "Facts" that you have pointed out, are from Draigo's 2 pages of codex, which I could use to support "Facts" as well...

Yeah I get that it's an opinion, but you're still wrong, because you aren't using all the information to back your opinion.

Thanks Bombboy, now I understand way.

If anything my Opinion is that Grey Knights dont suck. They are quite good at killing daemons. For one thing.

People don't really have a problem with GK players. Long-time experienced players are upset about loosing to the new GK CODEX, not the GK players. At least with every other top tier army you had to become a good general to wield them in an unstoppable fashion. Now anybody with no knowledge of the game can buy 12 Terminators and be nigh unbeatable. I'm hoping that the Necrons are going to be a finesse army like DE, but with more resilience.

Agh! Enough with the quote pyramid!

I played Daemonhunters a ways back, I loved the feel of the trained warrior going up against monsters far beyond his power because it must be done. Now it feels like Ultramarines with a different paint job and a few additional bobbles, with some whole sale civilain slaughter for kicks.

In all seriousness, GK aren't that bad, its just some people see some things in a skewed way is all.

Personally, I think Mat Ward can't write fluff, but his rules aren't that bad, they just need some help with grammar and sentence flow.

Can't wait to see the Necron equivlant of "Khornate Knights".


On a side note, the new Necron Ghost Ark with the Ultramarine symbol (I forget the actual name of it) strikes me funny. I'm tempted to buy some Crons and paint them Ultramarines 2nd Company, blue and gold for all.

[troll] Or just count as an Ultramarine force for Necrons [/troll]

Draigo feeds on your hate.

I thought that was Khorne.
Waaaaaaaaaait a minute...

Rampage wrote:Thanks Bombboy, now I understand why.

Can't...tell...if...serious...?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Commissar Typhus wrote:On a side note, the new Necron Ghost Ark with the Ultramarine symbol (I forget the actual name of it) strikes me funny. I'm tempted to buy some Crons and paint them Ultramarines 2nd Company, blue and gold for all.

[troll] Or just count as an Ultramarine force for Necrons [/troll]

I doubt they intentionally made a slight Ultramarine reference on purpose...

and I lol'd at the count as ultramarines


Automatically Appended Next Post:

nectarprime wrote:Draigo feeds on your hate.

Hate is yummy

bombboy1252 wrote:

iproxtaco wrote:

bombboy1252 wrote:

n0t_u wrote:What's the point of this argument anyway? One side says "my opinion is right, your's is wrong", the other mirrors it. Just going in circles in my opinion.

No, I keep saying it's all opinion, and than he says I just say that so I don't have to take criticism or something...read the Draigo thread in the background sub forum...

No that's not what I say. You make your point, and someone disagrees. You then dodge having to actually respond with a coherent statement by saying "that's just your opinion". It's the mark of a man who has nothing back up his beliefs.

Than please, post something here that backs up your beliefs.
I believe I have backed up mine, I have stated that whatever Draigo does, is rebuilt, resurrected or re-grows. Just like what the Grey Knights do as an entire force every day...

He beats Mortarion, a Daemon Primarch. Significant but not unheard of. Much less suited individuals have done similar things, Dante's defeat of Ann'grath the Unbound for example. Except this wasn't an epic battle in which a clearly out-classed character struggles on but eventually succeeds due to their heroism, oh no. Draigo, alone and unaided, smashes his way through Mortarion's bodyguard. Since he's a Daemon Primarch, this would be composed of the elite of the forces he can raise, Death Guard champions, Nurgle Daemons etc. Draigo ignores this, and easily bi-passes them. He then beats Mortarion to the ground, and takes the time out to engrave his previous commander's name onto his adversaries heart. Yeah that's right, he stops in the middle of some pretty powerful Death Guard and Daemons, and takes a bit of time out to perform intricate heart surgery on an angry Daemon Prince. Mortarion doesn't then get up and fight to the last, no, he 'escapes', he runs away.

Then Draigo is trapped in the Warp. He has no food, no water, no way to repair his armour or weapons effectively, yet he prevails. You could argue that the Warp is not a realm bound by the physics of the material universe, normal laws do not apply. Doesn't matter. Draigo shouldn't have been able to survive the transition. The Warp is a place that destroys those exposed to its tides. The Red Corsairs trapped on the outside of the Echo of Damnation in Blood Reaver are killed in moments. Terelportation requires an Astropath to keep those in transit safe, Interceptor packs are noted to be extremely dangerous methods of travel, even for a Grey Knight. His flesh should have been flayed from his bones and his soul taken by the tides in excruciating agony like it happens in all other fluff.

Sadly, Draigo perseveres. You think he would die soon after when he starts being confronted by powerful Daemons. Nope. He encounters a Bloodthirster, a pretty strong one at that. Surely this means certain death for him? Draigo's fists think otherwise. Alone, in the Warp, with no sword, he beats a Bloodthirster to death with his own hands, in the realm where Daemons should hold the advantage. To add insult to injury, he takes the Greater Daemon's axe, and somehow purifies it of all Daemonic essence, and again, this is in the Warp, where the very air is permeated with Chaotic Power. Then somehow, he forges himself a new sword.

Then he walks through the Warp, killing uncounted other Daemons, and burns down Nurgle's garden. Wow. He literally set fire to almost the entirety of Nurgle's domain like some slowed arsonist. He's not done. After that he goes and kills Slannesh's chosen Daemonettes and cuts them up into little pieces. Taking a detour from his rampage, he goes to have a look round the Inevitable City, see if he can pick up a snowglobe or t-shirt to bring back to the boys, but instead decides to destroy this city, and subsequently kill the ruling Lord of Change by burying it in the rubble. Then he walks away like nothing even happened. Oh, and he's done thousands more acts like these.

Here's the icing on the cake. Not even the Chaos Gods, as in Khorne, can do anything about him. He walks around keying their cars and kicking over their bins and they can't do a thing about it because he's immune to old grandpa Nurgle's protests that he'll call the police or else.

Here's the cherry. You may say that nothing he does ever means anything, which is true, he destroys the Inevitable City and the stones pile pack up the second he takes his eyes away, but the fact remains that he actually did these things, and has done them countless times.

Grey Knights are just specialised.
Against a generalised army, they'll probably kick ass.
I could play against a Grey Knight army and kick ass, just by loading up with Demolishers, plasmas, meltas and lascannons.

Joey wrote:Grey Knights are just specialised.
Against a generalised army, they'll probably kick ass.
I could play against a Grey Knight army and kick ass, just by loading up with Demolishers, plasmas, meltas and lascannons.

I could play against an ork army and kick ass, by loading up on missiles/meltas/flamers/termies

I could play against a Dark Eldar army and kick ass, by loading up on autocannons/flamers/bolters

I could play against Tyranids and kick ass, by loading up on plasma/missiles/flamers/bolters

You make it sound so easy. Any army can be beaten by list tailoring, but this is irrelevant, because list tailoring doesn't happen in a tourney scenario. If generalized Grey Knights are consistently beating generalized other armies, that makes them competitive. If not, they are uncompetitive. Saying "yeah, but you can beat them if you build a list specifically to kill them, with little/no chance against horde lists, with one of the top codices in the game!" is really not that relevant.

Grey Knights are solid, and hence do not suck. I don't feel qualified to comment on this issue, because I haven't faced many of the min/max/mech builds the codex has to offer, but I have played them in a casual environment, and they're definitely solid.

bombboy1252 wrote:

Rampage wrote:Thanks Bombboy, now I understand why.

Can't...tell...if...serious...?

, nah that was serious. OT, Congratulations on being the 9,000th BOLS subscriber by the way .

Ghenghis Jon wrote:People don't really have a problem with GK players. Long-time experienced players are upset about loosing to the new GK CODEX, not the GK players. At least with every other top tier army you had to become a good general to wield them in an unstoppable fashion. Now anybody with no knowledge of the game can buy 12 Terminators and be nigh unbeatable. I'm hoping that the Necrons are going to be a finesse army like DE, but with more resilience.

Hardly unbeatable. They only have T4, which is woundable by most weapons and even the 2+ save gives you a 16.5% chance per wound that it will go through. Not really bad odds considering you will have vastly more troops and that's not even counting heavy weapons, multiple shots, etc. No competent commander should find 12 termies invincible! By my poor reckoning an eldar guardian needs about 18 shots to kill a termie on average, so one unit of 20 will kill one per turn!

Seriously, people think that 12 terminators makes an unbeatable force? It really doesnt. The GK top builds are currently coteax, 5 henchmen with psybacks, 1 DCA psyback, 3 x 5 purifiers with psybacks, and 3 psyriflemen. No terminators anywhere there.

Asherian Command wrote:Grey Knights are cool.

[/thread]

What does [/thread] mean?

End of thread...
Similar to [/sarcasm]
It's a parody of [/spo!ler] and other forum doohickeys...

purplefood wrote:End of thread...
Similar to [/sarcasm]
It's a parody of [/spo!ler] and other forum doohickeys...

Just don't type [/chaosspawn] or you'll -ARRRRRRRRRGGGGGGHHHHHH

Commissar Typhus wrote:

purplefood wrote:End of thread...
Similar to [/sarcasm]
It's a parody of [/spo!ler] and other forum doohickeys...

Just don't type [/chaosspawn] or you'll -ARRRRRRRRRGGGGGGHHHHHH

Would you not need to type [chaosspawn] Name [/chaosspawn] ?

As a Daemonhunter Player who tended to run Pure-ish GK lists its nice to have a competitive force again and be on the OP end of interweb complaints .

I didnt notice many non DH players complaining on my behalf over the years that DH were underpowered .

Ive used most of my existing GK models , just adding a Termie and a GKPA / Purifier box , no Stormraven , no Dreadknight , no Drago and I do fine , no complaints at my Club either

Dynamix wrote:As a Daemonhunter Player who tended to run Pure-ish GK lists its nice to have a competitive force again and be on the OP end of interweb complaints .

I didnt notice many non DH players complaining on my behalf over the years that DH were underpowered .

Ive used most of my existing GK models , just adding a Termie and a GKPA / Purifier box , no Stormraven , no Dreadknight , no Drago and I do fine , no complaints at my Club either

Preach it brother

Seaward wrote:At least reading comprehension sucks equally everywhere.

Just to clarify this: my complaint is that the Grey Knights make me want to play them. As impressive as the nerdraging defenses of GKs are, they're currently manning the wrong walls.

Seaward wrote:

Seaward wrote:At least reading comprehension sucks equally everywhere.

Just to clarify this: my complaint is that the Grey Knights make me want to play them. As impressive as the nerdraging defenses of GKs are, they're currently manning the wrong walls.

So...
You hate an army because you want to play it?

purplefood wrote:

Seaward wrote:

Seaward wrote:At least reading comprehension sucks equally everywhere.

Just to clarify this: my complaint is that the Grey Knights make me want to play them. As impressive as the nerdraging defenses of GKs are, they're currently manning the wrong walls.

So...
You hate an army because you want to play it?

Indeed. They're quite capable of finally matching Space Marine fluff to Space Marine tabletop gameplay; small, elite, hard-as-nails, hitting-like-a-truck. They solve the complaint I've always had about that fluff/gameplay disconnect.

But they're Grey Knights. Atrocious fluff and a bandwagon longer than the New England Patriots'.

Seaward wrote:

purplefood wrote:

Seaward wrote:

Seaward wrote:At least reading comprehension sucks equally everywhere.

Just to clarify this: my complaint is that the Grey Knights make me want to play them. As impressive as the nerdraging defenses of GKs are, they're currently manning the wrong walls.

So...
You hate an army because you want to play it?

Indeed. They're quite capable of finally matching Space Marine fluff to Space Marine tabletop gameplay; small, elite, hard-as-nails, hitting-like-a-truck. They solve the complaint I've always had about that fluff/gameplay disconnect.

But they're Grey Knights. Atrocious fluff and a bandwagon longer than the New England Patriots'.

The fluff really isn't that bad and if you want to collect them then collect them. You won't be on the 'bandwagon' because the 'bandwagon' is usually the FOTM armies and frankly GK are no longer FOTM.

purplefood wrote:

Commissar Typhus wrote:

purplefood wrote:End of thread...
Similar to [/sarcasm]
It's a parody of [/spo!ler] and other forum doohickeys...

Just don't type [/chaosspawn] or you'll -ARRRRRRRRRGGGGGGHHHHHH

Would you not need to type [chaosspawn] Name [/chaosspawn] ?

[sarcasm] Oh wow how did you know that [spo!ler] that you need to say [chaosspawn] Name [/chaosspawn] ? [/spo!ler] [/sarcasm]

But in seriousness ( <-- lol ) I was signifying that if you say that then your transformation is complete

Commissar Typhus wrote:

purplefood wrote:

Commissar Typhus wrote:

purplefood wrote:End of thread...
Similar to [/sarcasm]
It's a parody of [/spo!ler] and other forum doohickeys...

Just don't type [/chaosspawn] or you'll -ARRRRRRRRRGGGGGGHHHHHH

Would you not need to type [chaosspawn] Name [/chaosspawn] ?

[sarcasm] Oh wow how did you know that [spo!ler] that you need to say [chaosspawn] Name [/chaosspawn] ? [/spo!ler] [/sarcasm]

But in seriousness ( <-- lol ) I was signifying that if you say that then your transformation is complete

But doesn't your transformation need to start at some point?

purplefood wrote:

Commissar Typhus wrote:

purplefood wrote:

Commissar Typhus wrote:

purplefood wrote:End of thread...
Similar to [/sarcasm]
It's a parody of [/spo!ler] and other forum doohickeys...

Just don't type [/chaosspawn] or you'll -ARRRRRRRRRGGGGGGHHHHHH

Would you not need to type [chaosspawn] Name [/chaosspawn] ?

[sarcasm] Oh wow how did you know that [spo!ler] that you need to say [chaosspawn] Name [/chaosspawn] ? [/spo!ler] [/sarcasm]

But in seriousness ( <-- lol ) I was signifying that if you say that then your transformation is complete

But doesn't your transformation need to start at some point?

Well played, good sir, well played.... here's your cookie [cookie] purplefood [/cookie]

Despite my best effort, I am starting to find GK pretty damn annoying.

There's a class of player at my hobby store who aren't really good players (They're nice people mind you, but their tactical acuity just isn't there) and who, for the most part, either don't paint their mini or are not very talented at it (I'm not sure which is worse to be honest... a grey army or one that looks like it was painted like an ADD 6 years old...).

They all change army constantly (i guess they have a lot of income) and while at some point, all of them had a different armies... they now ALL have GKs. And it's getting annoying.

We can usually beat them fairly easily, like I said, they aren't really good. But it's just dumb. I guess the fact that they are a cheap army to start and they reputation for being overpowered is just to much of a lure... and while I do find the GK kinda cool, I don't want to start an army and end up lumped with their players...

I played against a Draigo Wing yesterday for the first time... I won. But what really turned me off from the whole thing was the whole 'point and click' nature of the army. Rush the Stormraven Forward, Disembark, Charge, Hope you win. That's essentially all there is to that army.

I guess everyone hates gk. What are they like to play with as I have also chosen to collect gk.

Know what I think of Grey Knights?

They are just fine in most rule terms, except somethings.

Its just the models and the fluff that I dislike, its a mess and should have never been given to Mat Ward/

Do you want to know what else I dislike?

Threads like these, they do nothing but enforce the image of every forum member hating Grey Knights.

Everyone doesn't hate the GK in general, it's just certain things (Sure, I'll give you a heart tattoo, Mortarion!) that get on people's nerves. Play them if you want to, it's your money, but no matter how well you play them, how well painted your army is and how original your army list is, there inevitably will be someone who will be shouting cheese at you.

I'm new to this stuff. But just wanted to know what gks are like to play with. No one seem to say anything about that

They're powerful, and always outnumber their enemy. At the end of the fight.

blood reaper wrote:Know what I think of Grey Knights?

They are just fine in most rule terms, except somethings.

Its just the models and the fluff that I dislike, its a mess and should have never been given to Mat Ward/

2 things.

1) The old metal models are actually some of the coolest GW has ever produced, and the new plastics are even better.

2) Fluff? Quite abit was actually around since long before Mat Ward got his hands on it, he just brought it into the light when it would probably have been the prudent thing to let it lie in the dark recesses of 40k back history where it belonged. Bloodtide, Jokearo, GKs purging entire populations... It all existed before now, he just turned the spotlight on it.

I hate the necron bandwagon!!!! Oh wait...thats next month's topic.

Hückleberry wrote:I hate the necron bandwagon!!!! Oh wait...thats next month's topic.

Why wait

lets get em away from hating on my shiny marines.

Grey Templar wrote:

blood reaper wrote:Know what I think of Grey Knights?

They are just fine in most rule terms, except somethings.

Its just the models and the fluff that I dislike, its a mess and should have never been given to Mat Ward/

2 things.

1) The old metal models are actually some of the coolest GW has ever produced, and the new plastics are even better.

2) Fluff? Quite abit was actually around since long before Mat Ward got his hands on it, he just brought it into the light when it would probably have been the prudent thing to let it lie in the dark recesses of 40k back history where it belonged. Bloodtide, Jokearo, GKs purging entire populations... It all existed before now, he just turned the spotlight on it.

Do you want to know what else I dislike?

Threads like these, they do nothing but enforce the image of every forum member hating Grey Knights.

Personally I can sympathise with the OP.

The foundations the Grey Knights (in terms of rules and fluff) being a small elite force is not too bad and their previous codex was actually pretty good. I think it’s just the current codex does a poor job of interpreting the Grey Knights (in terms of rules and fluff).

I’m going to say that using the book doesn’t necessarily make you a bandwaggoner. I’d say someone using SW/BA miniatures in a GK list or fielding a MSU Coteaz chimera/ Crowe razorback spam list could be classed as a bandwagoner.

I’m also recommending the OP fields a “counts as” army rather than a full blown GK army. They don’t have to be “mind bullets” or “mind cannons” if you don’t want them to be, nor do you have to assemble the GK miniatures straight out of the box. I recommend filing/greenstuffing away the GK regalia/symbols as well as kitbashing to making the miniatures “your own”. I personally recommend getting some pre heresy terminator shoulder pads to add some extra character to your miniatures.

I can't stand the new codex I saw nothing wrong with daemonhunters and play that one when ever I can but the new coded is just complete Crap on the overpowered scale.

Personally I can sympathise with the OP.

The foundations the Grey Knights (in terms of rules and fluff) being a small elite force is not too bad and their previous codex was actually pretty good. I think it’s just the current codex does a poor job of interpreting the Grey Knights (in terms of rules and fluff).

I’m going to say that using the book doesn’t necessarily make you a bandwaggoner. I’d say someone using SW/BA miniatures in a GK list or fielding a MSU Coteaz chimera/ Crowe razorback spam list is probably a stronger case for a bandwaggoner.

I’m also recommending the OP fields a “counts as” army rather than a full blown GK army. They don’t have to be “mind bullets” or “mind cannons” if you don’t want them to be, nor do you have to assemble the GK miniatures straight out of the box. I recommend filing/greenstuffing away the GK regalia/symbols as well as kitbashing to making the miniatures “your own”. I personally recommend getting some pre heresy terminator shoulder pads to add some extra character to your miniatures.

iproxtaco wrote:

bombboy1252 wrote:

iproxtaco wrote:

bombboy1252 wrote:

n0t_u wrote:What's the point of this argument anyway? One side says "my opinion is right, your's is wrong", the other mirrors it. Just going in circles in my opinion.

No, I keep saying it's all opinion, and than he says I just say that so I don't have to take criticism or something...read the Draigo thread in the background sub forum...

No that's not what I say. You make your point, and someone disagrees. You then dodge having to actually respond with a coherent statement by saying "that's just your opinion". It's the mark of a man who has nothing back up his beliefs.

Than please, post something here that backs up your beliefs.
I believe I have backed up mine, I have stated that whatever Draigo does, is rebuilt, resurrected or re-grows. Just like what the Grey Knights do as an entire force every day...

He beats Mortarion, a Daemon Primarch. Significant but not unheard of. Much less suited individuals have done similar things, Dante's defeat of Ann'grath the Unbound for example. Except this wasn't an epic battle in which a clearly out-classed character struggles on but eventually succeeds due to their heroism, oh no. Draigo, alone and unaided, smashes his way through Mortarion's bodyguard. Since he's a Daemon Primarch, this would be composed of the elite of the forces he can raise, Death Guard champions, Nurgle Daemons etc. Draigo ignores this, and easily bi-passes them. He then beats Mortarion to the ground, and takes the time out to engrave his previous commander's name onto his adversaries heart. Yeah that's right, he stops in the middle of some pretty powerful Death Guard and Daemons, and takes a bit of time out to perform intricate heart surgery on an angry Daemon Prince. Mortarion doesn't then get up and fight to the last, no, he 'escapes', he runs away.

I think your forgetting that he's a grey knight.....scratch that....he's the "Supreme Grand Master" of the grey knights, so on top of all the specialized daemon fighting and what nots of a normal grey knight...he's probably the most powerful by far, he is the best of the grey knights, which are the best of the all the other space marine "chapters" as for "performing heart surgery" he more than likely just ripped his chest open with his sword which would take what.....1 and a half seconds? as for "being surrounded by his body guards" he more than likely destroyed them first with cleansing flame.

Then Draigo is trapped in the Warp. He has no food, no water, no way to repair his armour or weapons effectively, yet he prevails. You could argue that the Warp is not a realm bound by the physics of the material universe, normal laws do not apply. Doesn't matter. Draigo shouldn't have been able to survive the transition. The Warp is a place that destroys those exposed to its tides. The Red Corsairs trapped on the outside of the Echo of Damnation in Blood Reaver are killed in moments. Terelportation requires an Astropath to keep those in transit safe, Interceptor packs are noted to be extremely dangerous methods of travel, even for a Grey Knight. His flesh should have been flayed from his bones and his soul taken by the tides in excruciating agony like it happens in all other fluff.

As I said, he's the best of the grey knights, an order formed to fight chaos. So I would assume he could use some "psychic shield" of sorts to block all the nastiness of the warp...Interceptors travel through the warp, though it is very dangerous as you have said, but I would assume Draigo is better than an interceptor.....

Sadly, Draigo perseveres. You think he would die soon after when he starts being confronted by powerful Daemons. Nope. He encounters a Bloodthirster, a pretty strong one at that. Surely this means certain death for him? Draigo's fists think otherwise. Alone, in the Warp, with no sword, he beats a Bloodthirster to death with his own hands, in the realm where Daemons should hold the advantage. To add insult to injury, he takes the Greater Daemon's axe, and somehow purifies it of all Daemonic essence, and again, this is in the Warp, where the very air is permeated with Chaotic Power. Then somehow, he forges himself a new sword.

Draigo wasn't "bare handed" I would assume he's still carying the half of his sword that he used to kill the daemon that draged him into the warp in the first place, not to mention cleansing flame is a b tch to daemons, as for actually forging the new sword....I have no clue how he did it, so I have nothing to say to that....

Then he walks through the Warp, killing uncounted other Daemons, and burns down Nurgle's garden. Wow. He literally set fire to almost the entirety of Nurgle's domain like some slowed arsonist. He's not done. After that he goes and kills Slannesh's chosen Daemonettes and cuts them up into little pieces. Taking a detour from his rampage, he goes to have a look round the Inevitable City, see if he can pick up a snowglobe or t-shirt to bring back to the boys, but instead decides to destroy this city, and subsequently kill the ruling Lord of Change by burying it in the rubble. Then he walks away like nothing even happened. Oh, and he's done thousands more acts like these.

I would like you to refer to my statements of him being the "best of the best of the daemon slaying specialized order of bad asses that are more bad ass than a normal space marine"

Here's the icing on the cake. Not even the Chaos Gods, as in Khorne, can do anything about him. He walks around keying their cars and kicking over their bins and they can't do a thing about it because he's immune to old grandpa Nurgle's protests that he'll call the police or else.

I would assume the gods find Draigo amusing, he runs around killing everything and obliterating everything so much it would make an obliterater jealous, guess what.....Draigo is causing CHAOS in the realm of CHAOS, I think the dark gods find that humorous...besides, their too busy playing the Great Game to really care.......

Here's the cherry. You may say that nothing he does ever means anything, which is true, he destroys the Inevitable City and the stones pile pack up the second he takes his eyes away, but the fact remains that he actually did these things, and has done them countless times.

Read the above comments on being the best of the best of the best and what not...


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Rampage wrote:

bombboy1252 wrote:

Rampage wrote:Thanks Bombboy, now I understand why.

Can't...tell...if...serious...?

, nah that was serious. OT, Congratulations on being the 9,000th BOLS subscriber by the way .

hahahaha, I was surprised anyone noticed

bombboy1252 wrote:

iproxtaco wrote:
He beats Mortarion, a Daemon Primarch. Significant but not unheard of. Much less suited individuals have done similar things, Dante's defeat of Ann'grath the Unbound for example. Except this wasn't an epic battle in which a clearly out-classed character struggles on but eventually succeeds due to their heroism, oh no. Draigo, alone and unaided, smashes his way through Mortarion's bodyguard. Since he's a Daemon Primarch, this would be composed of the elite of the forces he can raise, Death Guard champions, Nurgle Daemons etc. Draigo ignores this, and easily bi-passes them. He then beats Mortarion to the ground, and takes the time out to engrave his previous commander's name onto his adversaries heart. Yeah that's right, he stops in the middle of some pretty powerful Death Guard and Daemons, and takes a bit of time out to perform intricate heart surgery on an angry Daemon Prince. Mortarion doesn't then get up and fight to the last, no, he 'escapes', he runs away.

I think your forgetting that he's a grey knight.....scratch that....he's the "Supreme Grand Master" of the grey knights, so on top of all the specialized daemon fighting and what nots of a normal grey knight...he's probably the most powerful by far, he is the best of the grey knights, which are the best of the all the other space marine "chapters" as for "performing heart surgery" he more than likely just ripped his chest open with his sword which would take what.....1 and a half seconds? as for "being surrounded by his body guards" he more than likely destroyed them first with cleansing flame.

I think you're forgetting that I acknowledged that his defeat of Mortarion wasn't itself a ridiculous thing. How he did it is unimaginably mary-sue. A lone Grey Knight, who was somehow elected to being the Supreme Grand Master which means the other 8 Grand Masters were present, somehow took on a Daemon Primarch and his elite body guard, failing to enact a kill because this Daemon Primarch ran away. If it had been an epic struggle then I would have no problem, but sitting down to do intricate open heart surgery in the middle of the Death Guard's elite is OTT to the insane. Saying he just killed the bodyguard makes it worse. These Chaos marines, Plague Bearers, possibly even a Greater Daemon or two, were just killed without a second thought.

Then Draigo is trapped in the Warp. He has no food, no water, no way to repair his armour or weapons effectively, yet he prevails. You could argue that the Warp is not a realm bound by the physics of the material universe, normal laws do not apply. Doesn't matter. Draigo shouldn't have been able to survive the transition. The Warp is a place that destroys those exposed to its tides. The Red Corsairs trapped on the outside of the Echo of Damnation in Blood Reaver are killed in moments. Terelportation requires an Astropath to keep those in transit safe, Interceptor packs are noted to be extremely dangerous methods of travel, even for a Grey Knight. His flesh should have been flayed from his bones and his soul taken by the tides in excruciating agony like it happens in all other fluff.

As I said, he's the best of the grey knights, an order formed to fight chaos. So I would assume he could use some "psychic shield" of sorts to block all the nastiness of the warp...Interceptors travel through the warp, though it is very dangerous as you have said, but I would assume Draigo is better than an interceptor.....

He uses a psychic shield? Oh right, now it make perfect sense! I have a feeling you're vastly over-estimating how good he should be. If it's dangerous for even a Terminator Grey Knight to do, even for VERY short periods, then Draigo shouldn't have been able to survive considering he's trapped in the Warp ALL THE TIME.

Sadly, Draigo perseveres. You think he would die soon after when he starts being confronted by powerful Daemons. Nope. He encounters a Bloodthirster, a pretty strong one at that. Surely this means certain death for him? Draigo's fists think otherwise. Alone, in the Warp, with no sword, he beats a Bloodthirster to death with his own hands, in the realm where Daemons should hold the advantage. To add insult to injury, he takes the Greater Daemon's axe, and somehow purifies it of all Daemonic essence, and again, this is in the Warp, where the very air is permeated with Chaotic Power. Then somehow, he forges himself a new sword.

Draigo wasn't "bare handed" I would assume he's still carying the half of his sword that he used to kill the daemon that draged him into the warp in the first place, not to mention cleansing flame is a b tch to daemons, as for actually forging the new sword....I have no clue how he did it, so I have nothing to say to that....

Wow, a broken sword, that's much better. He still went and beat down a Bloodthirster using it. In the Warp. In the Realm of Chaos.

Then he walks through the Warp, killing uncounted other Daemons, and burns down Nurgle's garden. Wow. He literally set fire to almost the entirety of Nurgle's domain like some slowed arsonist. He's not done. After that he goes and kills Slannesh's chosen Daemonettes and cuts them up into little pieces. Taking a detour from his rampage, he goes to have a look round the Inevitable City, see if he can pick up a snowglobe or t-shirt to bring back to the boys, but instead decides to destroy this city, and subsequently kill the ruling Lord of Change by burying it in the rubble. Then he walks away like nothing even happened. Oh, and he's done thousands more acts like these.

I would like you to refer to my statements of him being the "best of the best of the daemon slaying specialized order of bad asses that are more bad ass than a normal space marine"

You're overestimating how good he should be. The Supreme Grand Master goes from being killed a Daemon Primarch, to being able to run around the Warp immune the will of the Chaos Gods.

Here's the icing on the cake. Not even the Chaos Gods, as in Khorne, can do anything about him. He walks around keying their cars and kicking over their bins and they can't do a thing about it because he's immune to old grandpa Nurgle's protests that he'll call the police or else.

I would assume the gods find Draigo amusing, he runs around killing everything and obliterating everything so much it would make an obliterater jealous, guess what.....Draigo is causing CHAOS in the realm of CHAOS, I think the dark gods find that humorous...besides, their too busy playing the Great Game to really care.......

Except that's not what it says in the passage. They cannot do anything about him, end of story.

Here's the cherry. You may say that nothing he does ever means anything, which is true, he destroys the Inevitable City and the stones pile pack up the second he takes his eyes away, but the fact remains that he actually did these things, and has done them countless times.

Read the above comments on being the best of the best of the best and what not...

Read previous comments on how you're overestimating how good he should be. No other character in 40k aside from Horus and the Emperor have done anything close to what Draigo can do.

Man... I want to enter this debate so badly, but I'd feel like a douche for doing it.

On an on topic note, I kinda get where Seaward is coming from. As bad as the fluff is, the models are awesome IMO and the army looks fun to play, so I can't help but kind of want to play them too.

Hückleberry wrote:I hate the necron bandwagon!!!! Oh wait...thats next month's topic.

Xenos bandwagons are never anywhere near as bad as PA bandwagons - part of the reason that Space Marines bandwagon so well is the interchangeability of the models. The Necrons will have a few new fans, but it won't be anything like the usual BA/SW/GK release response.

That's what you say now, but when the C'tan are suddenly able to stroll through the Webway or something it'll be a different story...

Durza wrote:That's what you say now, but when the C'tan are suddenly able to stroll through the Webway or something it'll be a different story...

Except the C'tan have been retcon as being overthrown by the necrons and increadibly weaker. I doubt it's be nearly as bad, but I won't hold my breath either way.

Seaward wrote:

Hückleberry wrote:I hate the necron bandwagon!!!! Oh wait...thats next month's topic.

Xenos bandwagons are never anywhere near as bad as PA bandwagons - part of the reason that Space Marines bandwagon so well is the interchangeability of the models. The Necrons will have a few new fans, but it won't be anything like the usual BA/SW/GK release response.

I’ll have to agree with the above statement.

The inter changeability of MEQ miniatures and as well their popularity further encourages MEQ bandwagonning over xenos forces.

The xenos fanbase in general is smaller in numbers than and not as fanatical as the MEQ fanbase anyway. Even if the new Necron codex that is coming out was written by Matt Ward, I don’t see too much fuss being raised about it (apart from cheesy Stormlord lists).

I love this thread. It makes me all warm and fuzzy inside. Maybe we can ask yakface to start a whole new forum for hate threads, that way everyone who hates X army will have somewhere they can go to post. Just saying.

iproxtaco wrote:
I think you're forgetting that I acknowledged that his defeat of Mortarion wasn't itself a ridiculous thing. How he did it is unimaginably mary-sue. A lone Grey Knight, who was somehow elected to being the Supreme Grand Master which means the other 8 Grand Masters were present, somehow took on a Daemon Primarch and his elite body guard, failing to enact a kill because this Daemon Primarch ran away. If it had been an epic struggle then I would have no problem, but sitting down to do intricate open heart surgery in the middle of the Death Guard's elite is OTT to the insane. Saying he just killed the bodyguard makes it worse. These Chaos marines, Plague Bearers, possibly even a Greater Daemon or two, were just killed without a second thought.

Ran away as in retreated to the Warp, from where he couldn't return to realspace for a loooong time. That's as good as you're going to get with Daemons.

I love Grey Knights. My Tyranids have gone through a renaissance since they came out. I'll take Psyflemen over Long Fangs, psycannons over meltaguns, and Strike Squads over Grey Hunters any day of the week. I actually feel like they're the most balanced army that's come out in a while, and I bet there are some Tyranid and Eldar players out there who agree with me.

I only dislike the Dreadknight and Crowe models along with techno monkeys, I liked the idea of the old GK fluff. Valiant warriors destined to die but still fighting, even when normal Space Marines could have broken. I don't see that anymore, and I loved the old GK metals despite the price tags and thought they were the coolest Imperial Models in the line.

methinks the "i hate X army" topics really stem from a lack of ability to combat said army with your army of choice. too many curb stomps by GK players? well... all i can say is learn to fight them. EVERY army is beatable by pretty much any other army. yea, handycaps exist and in some cases are more pronounced then others, but it dosent make it unbeatable. and certianly not a reason to be jumping on the hate wagon.

now that said i plyaed GK when they first arrived, and it was my first choice for marines and my 3rd army. (after DE and 'crons) and while im not a big fan of the fluff... or ward for that matter, it dosent change the fact i like the models, and i think the army plays fairly well. and every "trick" is beatable. draigowing, purfier spam, DK etc. all has weakness and can be brought down.

AlmightyWalrus wrote:

iproxtaco wrote:
I think you're forgetting that I acknowledged that his defeat of Mortarion wasn't itself a ridiculous thing. How he did it is unimaginably mary-sue. A lone Grey Knight, who was somehow elected to being the Supreme Grand Master which means the other 8 Grand Masters were present, somehow took on a Daemon Primarch and his elite body guard, failing to enact a kill because this Daemon Primarch ran away. If it had been an epic struggle then I would have no problem, but sitting down to do intricate open heart surgery in the middle of the Death Guard's elite is OTT to the insane. Saying he just killed the bodyguard makes it worse. These Chaos marines, Plague Bearers, possibly even a Greater Daemon or two, were just killed without a second thought.

Ran away as in retreated to the Warp, from where he couldn't return to realspace for a loooong time. That's as good as you're going to get with Daemons.

Mortarion 'escaped' from Draigo, he wasn't even given the dignity of being banished. True though, he couldn;t return for some time after that. Had to call up Fabius Bile to have him reverse Draigo's choppy and quick open heart surgery.

sennacherib wrote:I love this thread. It makes me all warm and fuzzy inside. Maybe we can ask yakface to start a whole new forum for hate threads, that way everyone who hates X army will have somewhere they can go to post. Just saying.

Actually not a bad idea in an effort to isolate the hate.

I always looked at it like Draigo was anchored to the warp and as such gained the cohesiveness that others lack when they go. This is why he keeps returning to the warp and this was part of the demon primarch's plan to torture him till he breaks. Draigo is there because he's the best and even he must some day relent in the fight against chaos.

I don't hate GK. I just dislike them because of the nasty things they do. They're nice bad guys and Draigo is a very good point in favor of my canon in which Malal is still kicking.

Demolisher Cannon approves of mass Terminator armor, and especially Paladins.