I was wondering how the general dakkanaut feels about this magazine. I do not expect dakkas opinion to be very positive, but as always, i want to see some numbers.
I dont know what to say about them because i dont read WD often. I only saw a friends collection (well i was staying there for some time though) and i browsed through them. The earlier ones seemed quite intresting to me, but the later ones lack something. It somehow changed into a catalouge.
But anyway, i didnt look close enough to be able to give it a rating, so im asking you lot.
As some of you might know, I started a similar thread here about your opinion of GW.
Never read it, don't really want them now. I have a chance of getting lots of old ones for free. Should I take it anyway? Oh and btw, could we have a don't know/don't care option on the poll please?
0/10 wasn't an option. This made me almost as sad as WD does. It used to have articles. Good or bad, they used to be there. It used to be affordable. Now it isn't worth the paper it is printed on. So my vote is actually 0/10.
I gave it a 3/10. Altough it is just a glorified advertisement sold at outrageous prices, I think it has some redeeming qualities in it that stop it from being a mere 1/10.
The mag is garbage on a good day, when they arn't too busy tooting thier own horn about how great "The Hobby" is.
Most of the articles are pretentous, and the content is not what it once was when someone actually cared about writing for WD.
If they went back to thier old school days, relearned what worked, and applied it to the magazine, they would be able to easily pull it out of the toilet.
its a GW catalog not a magazine
and one tends to get catalogs for free, not pay like 12 dollars for them!
back in the day, I'd go in to get it the first day, now, I take one flip of it whenever I see it and I get everything from it from that
a magazine shouldn't do that!
The worst thing is how far it has fallen, utterly disappointing. It used to be a really good read. People getting into GW now haven't a clue what it used to be and anyone giving it high marks has to be a noob because there's no way anyone reading it 10-20 years ago can still be equally satisfied by current content.
I gave it a three and almost immediately thought that was too high of a score. WD has changed a lot in the almost twenty years that I have read it. Well, I gave up on actually reading it regularly a few years ago, but still leaf through it from time to time. It now contains nothing I that I feel adds to my hobby, so I don't bother picking it up. It's nice when they occasionally include new official rules or ways to play like Spearhead, but years ago, that kind of stuff was in the magazine every month.
I loved the old lists they'd just stick in there from time to time
you could really tell it was a hobby magazine, now...the lists they put in there are awful and replace full codex's
1/10
I can't help but compare it to what it used to be.
So I stopped and said to myself, "Try. Imagine you are picking up the magazine for the first time ever."
Still 1/10. It's not a magazine, it's a giant glossy advertisment for the latest stuff GW has to sell- and we are expected to pay an outrageous amount to look at the pretty pictures. Is there anything in the magazine that is not available on the website for free? If so, is it worth paying for? My answers: no, and no.
Compare it to Wargames Illustrated, and weep.
MrMerlin wrote:As I can see, WD is very popular these days.
But apparently some people still buy tons of it (spoiled kids), so GW sells enough of them to earn money (otherwise theyd change things fast!)
It is my impression that they don't sell like they used to. My old LGS used to complain that WHSmiths were selling them and people didn't go to his shop at the other end of town. But in Smiths I saw the same thing every month which was that many copies were still on the shelf. Maybe WHSmiths were selling half of what they started with.
Now WHSmiths don't take WD any more (and thus the independents they distribute to don't get them either), and the reasoning suggested at the time was that GW were unhappy with them putting it out on the shelf early. Well shops like WHSmiths want to turn around stock fast so they aren't going to sit on it to suit your release schedule, they have the marketplace presence to do what they like. It does seem to me though that WHSmiths may not have been able to sell as many as they liked even if they jumped GW's release date so GW getting stropy about it wasn't going to get them very far. It would be very interesting to know who broke off their deal because I can't see that losing distribution through WHSmiths has many benefits and WHSmiths are not exactly wounded by the loss of GWs custom.
I never buy it myself, but it's pretty at least and can be a good read. Not worth it's price-tag mind and the substance is lacking, but some of the content is good.
My rating it 3/10 however kinda suggests quite how little of that content is 'good'...
I suspect I may rate it higher had I used it's P&M sections.
3/10. Still a good toilet read. I remember how great it used to be too. I'm pretty sure it was LoTR that killed it. All I remember is the mag going from 1/2 fantasy and 1/2 40K, to 1/3 of each of those and 1/3 LoTR which I couldn't care less about. That seemed to be the time around when the content started being sucked out as well.
5/10. They changed when they send out copies to subscribers, i used to get mine about 3-4 days before it came out in the shop but now i get it 3-4 days after it goes on the shelf.
But still, it has got better over the last few issues, but won't be renewing my suscription.
Can I amend my rating down to 1? Picked up WD383 (the Necron edition for those with transatlantic issue no. confusion) and I believe this is the worst edition of the magazine ever.
I often bemoan the absence of modelling articles from the old days (make a barn out of balsa wood, that kind of thing), but they did at least maintain the instructive painting tutorials. Now even these have disappeared. There is not a single worthwhile painting article in the whole magazine... unless you are one of the two people who own an unpainted battle sister miniature - in which case, you get half a page... It is purely an advert for Necrons with the seemingly contractual nod to LoTR and a dull Ogre Kingdoms tactica.
You might argue Necron players might be interested, but there is nothing here they won't learn in a week's time or indeed from Yak's comprehensive sneak peak in News and Rumours. Seriously, save that £4.50 and keep 22.5% of the Codex price in your pocket.
The WD team have hit rock bottom... and have started up a pneumatic drill.
Pity, well good job my local stores still have the Dreadfleet issue up (as it's hardly sold)
I only get it now if its got a decent/useful painting article in it. TBH I think magazines have gone down hill in general, not just WD. I used to buy Empire but you flick through it and it's just like WD - lots of ads/pictures - few words. I was flicking through an old issue (138) and I think that less graphic design helped in putting out content, as your content had to be words. It's like the graphic designers have taken over (shudders). It's a shame as there's so much they could do with that space - again it's frustrating to see.
I gave 3/10 - for the painting articles (if they appear). Otherwise, it's pretty pointless. I can skim read it for a minute with no need to buy it.
I like the magazine in general, but for me it's for looking at pictures of army men while I'm on my "golden throne". I like having the pics of great new models all painted up good and in a magazine that I can flip through and I read parts of it here and there. I know it's just 1 big GW ad.
I do like the newer direction of adding new rules and stuff and that really needs to continue. Like the SoB codex, and even just the datafaxes for the orgre monsters for storm of magic was a nice addition.
What I don't like is the most recent idea of delaying it when every other magazine under the sun arrives weeks before the street date for subscribers. This month, it was Oct 16th and my October issue didn't show up yet. I called customer service and they shipped me one immediately since those guys are so nice. I got it within 3 days.. then 2 days later, my subscription issue showed up. I would have rather just not gotten it at all, having it show up that late is a great way for GW to say "yeah, sorry, but we don't care"
And the price? Every other magazine out there is cheaper for subscribers, why does WD have to be different? I'm sure it's expensive to produce like any other printed material is, but still. In the end, there is really no benefit at all to subscribing, other than having it delivered to you instead of buying it in a store. y... a... y...
My subscription is going to run out I think in Feb, and desipite the newer stuff they've been adding in, it's going to take a lot more to get me to keep my subscription going. I want a timely (read, earlier) delivery and a lower subscription price. I know the later will never happen, but 1 out of 2 ain't bad...
Gave it a 4 myself, I heartily recommend this to people who are interested in catalogues and are afraid of google.
This is by far the finest catalogue I have come across so far, it even occasionally has painting articles which is a fair bit more content than the average catalogue. In all seriousness though, the few painting articles it does have in it are nice at times, though not worth the $12 price tag.
Certainly not, his Standard Bearer article is self aggrandizement of the worst kind. Even that is used as a marketing tool. It's repellent, arrogant and tepid.
H.B.M.C. wrote:Two people have voted 10/10 so far. I can only assume these people have either never seen an issue of WD before or are simply incapable of reading.
At the price to content ratio its not worth it. Old White Dwarf issues were full of content but now its just a monthly catalog. If i wanted to read it i would rather spend 30 bucks for gas money to drive to grapevine, skim the magazine for a minute, and then drive back home in the thick of the worst dallas traffic; than buy a subscription.
And anyone that knows me or read my "drive to a good store" rant knows i hate that drive.
Varrick wrote: At the price to content ratio its not worth it. Old White Dwarf issues were full of content but now its just a monthly catalog. If i wanted to read it i would rather spend 30 bucks for gas money to drive to grapevine, skim the magazine for a minute, and then drive back home in the thick of the worst dallas traffic; than buy a subscription.
And anyone that knows me or read my "drive to a good store" rant knows i hate that drive.
why dont you just order your stuff from the internet? There are billions of online-shops out there.
White dwarf is just an expensive monthly catalogue. used to be that they included real stuff like modelling articles on how to make battle damage, how to make terrain, how to make etc. Now, mostly adds for new stuff and armies i will never buy. who needs it.
MeanGreenStompa wrote:Totally worthless. I'll continue to pay my $25 per year for a far superior online gaming media source!
You know it's kind of ironic that for all the GW bashing we engage in on this site, Dakka is the first place I come for my GW fix. It may come across as breeding ground for GW haters, but a couple of hours browsing on Dakka, notably on the painting and modelling forums, does more to increase my enthusiasm for the hobby than GW does with 12 months of WD "content".
It's the only printed hobby mag there is, so i gotta like it or lunk it. I wish they'd replace the lotr feature with rotating information on each of the specialist games (making lotr a specialist game too). They should 50/50 the fantasy / 40k stuff across the magazine using as much space as is the whole mag has now, add a few pages for the specialist content and remove the store adds which I guess noone ever reads anyway
kitch102 wrote:It's the only printed hobby mag there is, so i gotta like it or lunk it.
Rubbish.
Please, feel free to expand on that, and tell me what my other options are for GW products (in the UK). Unless you'd prefer to stick to one word answers that do nothing to tell me otherwise.
I bought every single issue that had an 'eavy metal masterclass and each one was a great purchase. Since they stopped doing those I haven't touched one beyond a cursory skimming of the store copy. I'm very happy to pay £4.50 for a good masterclass, but without those it's pretty worthless
kitch102 wrote:It's the only printed hobby mag there is, so i gotta like it or lunk it.
Rubbish.
Please, feel free to expand on that, and tell me what my other options are for GW products (in the UK). Unless you'd prefer to stick to one word answers that do nothing to tell me otherwise.
Immediately I can think of both Wargames Illustrated and Miniatures Wargames both available in WHSmiths. They aren't slavishly dedicated to GW products but do mention them alongside many other manufacturers. So your claim that WD is it the only hobby magazine out there is patently false.
MeanGreenStompa wrote:Totally worthless. I'll continue to pay my $25 per year for a far superior online gaming media source!
You know it's kind of ironic that for all the GW bashing we engage in on this site, Dakka is the first place I come for my GW fix. It may come across as breeding ground for GW haters, but a couple of hours browsing on Dakka, notably on the painting and modelling forums, does more to increase my enthusiasm for the hobby than GW does with 12 months of WD "content".
Howard A Treesong wrote:Seriously? You must have pushed them out of the way to get at White Dwarf.
No mate, I rarely step foot in WHS as I find it over priced (who's calling dibs on the "yet you collect GW?!" comment?), if I'm after a book I'll go to play.com. I used to pick up WD from my flgs when I went in for supplies, but now have one of those subscription deals where you just pay £9 every 3 months.
Had a quick look at the Wargames Illustrated site, sure it was only a cursory glance but I can't say I'm illustrated, I prefer the GW models and as these are the only ones I'm in to it makes sense that I stick to WD and get some scrap of information on models and fluff etc that I'm interested in than lots of information on something that I couldn't care less about to be honest
I wasn't there at the beginning, but I started reading it off and on around '94 and even though it had already become a catalog-disguised as a magazine, there was still some creativity, DIY, special deals, and support for games other than the big 3. Back then it was probably a 6-7/10.
Now the DIY, Special deals (no more free kit with subscription or special mail-order offers) other games and most creativity is all gone, yet it costs about 50% more!
It would have been 1/10 but I gave it a "2" because it's still a monthly source for some of the best painted miniatures in the biz and it's definitley worth the $1 I pay for it when it appears in the back-issue sale bin.
Howard A Treesong wrote:Seriously? You must have pushed them out of the way to get at White Dwarf.
No mate, I rarely step foot in WHS as I find it over priced (who's calling dibs on the "yet you collect GW?!" comment?), if I'm after a book I'll go to play.com. I used to pick up WD from my flgs when I went in for supplies, but now have one of those subscription deals where you just pay £9 every 3 months.
Yeah good point, I think they put that in WD about 6 months back or something... they don't do the books either do they? They droped the whole lot as (so I heard *salt!*) GW tried to charge them more or something...?
Not since Paul "fat bloke" Sawyer was editor have i got one(still bought a couple of copies when Black Reach was released,the one with the free minis!!!yeah FREE minis) but still read each issue in the local book store for 20 mins then going 'nah not this month thanks.
WHSmith have stopped stocking WD. Currently, I either pick it up from the Tesco megastore or from the FLGS.
Since I don't do the latter, I read WD off the shelf at Tescos and put it down without paying for it. I refuse to allow GW to skank any more money out of my wallet.
MeanGreenStompa wrote:Totally worthless. I'll continue to pay my $25 per year for a far superior online gaming media source!
You know it's kind of ironic that for all the GW bashing we engage in on this site, Dakka is the first place I come for my GW fix. It may come across as breeding ground for GW haters, but a couple of hours browsing on Dakka, notably on the painting and modelling forums, does more to increase my enthusiasm for the hobby than GW does with 12 months of WD "content".
Seriously, GW should pay Dakka money.
Yep, lots of GW rage on Dakka. Kinda funny.
99% of the rage on dakka is directed against the marketing-managers who work there, not against the people in the studios who make all the outstanding models. So if they got themselves a new management, everything would be fine
MeanGreenStompa wrote:Totally worthless. I'll continue to pay my $25 per year for a far superior online gaming media source!
You know it's kind of ironic that for all the GW bashing we engage in on this site, Dakka is the first place I come for my GW fix. It may come across as breeding ground for GW haters, but a couple of hours browsing on Dakka, notably on the painting and modelling forums, does more to increase my enthusiasm for the hobby than GW does with 12 months of WD "content".
Seriously, GW should pay Dakka money.
Yep, lots of GW rage on Dakka. Kinda funny.
And lot's of GW Apologists as well. Kind of funny as well.
dazblackhawk wrote:Not since Paul "fat bloke" Sawyer was editor have i got one(still bought a couple of copies when Black Reach was released,the one with the free minis!!!yeah FREE minis) but still read each issue in the local book store for 20 mins then going 'nah not this month thanks.
Agree totally, that time and the time prior to it were the 'golden age' of the magazine.
The problem is now GW just aren't spending money on the magazine. To have journalism in any form you have to pay journalists, and that costs money. Personally, I wish GW would give control of the magazine to Black Library or something, as it stands it's not really a magazine at all, and is just an advertising catalogue.
MeanGreenStompa wrote:Totally worthless. I'll continue to pay my $25 per year for a far superior online gaming media source!
You know it's kind of ironic that for all the GW bashing we engage in on this site, Dakka is the first place I come for my GW fix. It may come across as breeding ground for GW haters, but a couple of hours browsing on Dakka, notably on the painting and modelling forums, does more to increase my enthusiasm for the hobby than GW does with 12 months of WD "content".
Seriously, GW should pay Dakka money.
Yep, lots of GW rage on Dakka. Kinda funny.
And lot's of GW Apologists as well. Kind of funny as well.
MeanGreenStompa wrote:Totally worthless. I'll continue to pay my $25 per year for a far superior online gaming media source!
You know it's kind of ironic that for all the GW bashing we engage in on this site, Dakka is the first place I come for my GW fix. It may come across as breeding ground for GW haters, but a couple of hours browsing on Dakka, notably on the painting and modelling forums, does more to increase my enthusiasm for the hobby than GW does with 12 months of WD "content".
Seriously, GW should pay Dakka money.
Yep, lots of GW rage on Dakka. Kinda funny.
And lot's of GW Apologists as well. Kind of funny as well.
dazblackhawk wrote:Not since Paul "fat bloke" Sawyer was editor have i got one(still bought a couple of copies when Black Reach was released,the one with the free minis!!!yeah FREE minis) but still read each issue in the local book store for 20 mins then going 'nah not this month thanks.
Agree totally, that time and the time prior to it were the 'golden age' of the magazine.
The problem is now GW just aren't spending money on the magazine. To have journalism in any form you have to pay journalists, and that costs money. Personally, I wish GW would give control of the magazine to Black Library or something, as it stands it's not really a magazine at all, and is just an advertising catalogue.
I think this hits closest to the mark. The other problem is that most magazines are supported by advertisements, that's why they are less expensive.
Reading a WD issue from 10 years ago and one from today and the difference is astonishing. My wife, who is a casual player (prefers the painting/modeling and lore to the game) read a current issue in about 15 minutes, dumped in on the table in front of me and said "man what a complete piece of crap this is".
Adbusters which is 100% ad free costs only 58$ for 12 issues. It is a nice, glossy magazien with great pictures, art and articles. GW has NO excuse to be charging what they are. its only IMHO because so many will pay the exhorbitant price that they continue to charge what they do for a catalogue.
I just don't understand the results..........at all...........
Anyways I gave it 2. Compared to what I had in a WD when I started getting it WD 300, it really it is a shiny hunk of rubbish........a crying shame really, it used to be my favourite time of the month!!
In this day and age of the internet and other media sources, most magazines are struggling to survive due to lower sales. Why buy a mag when you can look up the same or similar info online? To offset that, mags tend to sell more advertisement space to make up for the lost revenue so I am very forgiving of mags that have to make that tough call. 2 other non-wargaming magazines I subscribe to have done the same thing over the last few years.
With regards to WD, I would be happier with it if there were more Masterclass/hobby articles, Battle Reports for armies that they were not "staged" for lack of a better term with armies they want to sell or are about to release, and other list-building features.
The thing is, battle reports have always resulted in the new army coming out on top. The only exception I can think of to that is when the 2nd edition Eldar codex came out and they were forced to a draw by Space Wolves. However, this has been taken to the next step by having any new kits/units generally rampaging their way through the enemy army.
Having said that, the biggest beef I have with it is the quality of writing. There is barely a single sentence in the magazine which you feel is written by a human being, and hasn't been checked by a man with leather boots, a perfectly pressed uniform and a large-peaked hat, to make sure it features the word 'finecast'. Also the whole, "Even though I don't normally collect Tomb Kings, the new Sphinx model was so incredible I just had to buy 8 of them."
3 10's, 1 9 and 8 8's!
C'mon then - who are you people? Are you reading the same 'magazine' as the rest of us?
It's either someone very young, who has no memories of WD actually being an eagerly awaited read, or someone being deliberately scurrilous.
Seconding all the poor votes. Everything looked better when I was young, nostalgia, imagination etc. But I clearly remember all the conversion and terrain articles. One battle report stuck in my mind between the winner of a grand tournament (using his winning army) and some employee (using his own army I believe). Nowadays the great majority of the pictures/models/hobby advice features the stock models, done in the same 'standard' colour scheme. Hobby advice always centres around buying X kit and then customizing it, the existence of plastic card or other supplies is not acknowledged. Tactical advice is shallow or nonsensical in the extreme. Battle reports are always between extremely bland studio armies, generally none of the models or commentary reflect anyone's personal experience, just the pre-fab way of doing every stage of the hobby. In addition to that we have the corporate-savvy optimism, constant mentioning of the new projects, and the refusal to mention any products that are produced by other model companies or any supplies that are available outside a GW. It was inevitable though, a magazine owned by the company that produces its subject material was always propaganda, the owners just got savvier as their corporation grew.
Varrick wrote: At the price to content ratio its not worth it. Old White Dwarf issues were full of content but now its just a monthly catalog. If i wanted to read it i would rather spend 30 bucks for gas money to drive to grapevine, skim the magazine for a minute, and then drive back home in the thick of the worst dallas traffic; than buy a subscription.
And anyone that knows me or read my "drive to a good store" rant knows i hate that drive.
why dont you just order your stuff from the internet? There are billions of online-shops out there.
Because it i still not worth the money to buy it online when i can endure 3 hours of painful traffic, 5 minutes skimming the magazine, MAYBE buying something, a quick walk to the walgreens for ibuprofen or something for an upset stomach(depending on how the traffic treated me), and then repeat drive home. The content of the magazine is worth that little to me.
Maybe all the people voting 10 have never read another magazine or maybe they cant read at all. Ever think of that HUH. Lots of pretty pictures....
Seriously though, I started buying white dwarf a long time ago. Long before i got back into 40k. I picked a couple of copies up because they had expansion characters for use with WH Quest. When i started reading it again about 5 years ago it still had legitimate articles. There were a handful of really nice ones referring to tactics with some specific army lists, battle damage and vehicle modifications, special scenarios, urban terrain construction. '
Now, Fail. Ads and more ads. Anyone still buying it is wasting their money IMHO.
It once was decent for the painting articles to improve your painting skills but now days you can get those for free on youtube and white dwarf became a way over priced catalog with too many advertisements.
I can count the last 3 White dwarfs I bought in recent memory. The one with the night spinner rules to have them for my eldar. The two with the Sisters Rules. Only buy it when I have to for rules.
Pacific wrote:The thing is, battle reports have always resulted in the new army coming out on top. The only exception I can think of to that is when the 2nd edition Eldar codex came out and they were forced to a draw by Space Wolves. However, this has been taken to the next step by having any new kits/units generally rampaging their way through the enemy army.
Always is a pretty strong term. More often then not would be a better one- tyranids lost theirs in their last release, I know Dark angels lost one of their s in the release, as did sisters in one. And thats just from memeory.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
I-bounty-hunt-the-elderly wrote: One battle report stuck in my mind between the winner of a grand tournament (using his winning army) and some employee (using his own army I believe).
Who owned a howling griffon army if I remember correctly. Then there was the time of a battle report between two torunment players- one had eldar, the other dark eldar.
Necrons also lose their battle report in the current issue... but kind of win in the daft post battle fluff where Trazyn and Sicarius have a good pow wow over the unconscious body of an Eldar Farseer
Pacific wrote:The thing is, battle reports have always resulted in the new army coming out on top. The only exception I can think of to that is when the 2nd edition Eldar codex came out and they were forced to a draw by Space Wolves. However, this has been taken to the next step by having any new kits/units generally rampaging their way through the enemy army.
I noticed this too, the flavour of the month seems to come out on top more often than not, the only exception that I can personally think of being the Dark Eldar vs Blood Angels report which came to a draw as both had had recent new releases, so obviously neither was allowed to lose
8/10. Yes, I know. Although I usually only pick it up in one of two situations:
1) There's a release I'm interested in.
2) I want something to read for a long journey.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Also, in regards to "new things always win"- The Necrons lost this month.
Vampirate of Sartosa wrote:8/10. Yes, I know. Although I usually only pick it up in one of two situations: 1) There's a release I'm interested in. 2) I want something to read for a long journey.
...How slowly do you read?
Wait! Crap, did not mean for that to be offensive. But, c'mon - you can't actually claim that White Dwarf is good for any amount of time over a half hour.
I'll pick up the odd issue only when it pertains to my army (So I only have 2 issues... Grey Knights and now Necrons) and it's mostly just to get ideas on how to paint/model my guys - the content is very bland and generic. If you could buy specific models that had White Dwarf stats, or even if White Dwarf released "kits" that you could equip units with and again, the stat lines would be in the issue, i'd consider it more frequently - also they need to broaden up each release instead of it getting so focused. I have 0 interest in dreadfleet so i ignored the last few issues exclusively because of this.
edit: also their battle reports could be a bit more clear... they sort of jumble in what happens on a turn all together... i mean the necron one this month all of a sudden a monolith is gone and they make a small note on it...
I had stopped being a regular buyer at about #250 and only picked up occasional issues as far as #280. I have a complete run, or very nearly complete from #95-250
The last issue of WD I bought was #304 because it was the 30th anniversary issue and had a few nice things.
Before that I had issue #300 - yeah I'm a sucker for anniversaries. That had really cool looking Dwarf Brewery scenery which they didn't say much about so I just had to enjoy the pictures.
I had every issue dating back to 136, but recently I just got so fed up with the P**s poor quality of the rag, that I cancelled my sub & got rid of some newer issues. I tore out the pages I wanted to keep, and out of 2 yrs worth of WD, I got less than a magazines worth of stuff worth keeping - ridiculous.
Now, I just flick through each issue in the supermarket (where possible) and decide if I want it or not - I haven't bought any of the last 3 issues.
I feel no regret at my dicision. WD was once a great magazine, now it's just a lame overpriced catalogue, and has been for a long time.
I just wonder how long it will be before all WD's come plastic wrapped, either forcing you to take it or leave it. If that happens I know which I'll be doing.
Vampirate of Sartosa wrote:8/10. Yes, I know. Although I usually only pick it up in one of two situations:
1) There's a release I'm interested in.
2) I want something to read for a long journey.
...How slowly do you read?
Wait! Crap, did not mean for that to be offensive. But, c'mon - you can't actually claim that White Dwarf is good for any amount of time over a half hour.
If you like the models you can always look at the pictures
I voted 1/10. Just got back from my hols, had one hell of a train journey so though what the heck will buy WD, Have not bought a copy in some 10/12 years.
Wow, is this really the state of WD. I’ve read a few topics over recent months about the standard of it but was not expecting it to be half as bad as it was. Basically it’s just an over sized sales leaflet. I can't believe that they would actually have enough subscribers to warrant making it month after month.
I’ve just sat down with my box of old WD's (120 to around 200 odd) to compare them with this thing I wasted my money on and what little faith I have left in GW has taken a massive kick in the plums...
infinite_array wrote:Wait! Crap, did not mean for that to be offensive. But, c'mon - you can't actually claim that White Dwarf is good for any amount of time over a half hour.
Is there any magazine good for any amount of time over a half hour?
Automatically Appended Next Post: Also, in what way was it better before? I've the oldest issue I've seen came from 2004, and to be honest, I prefered the newer ones.
Vampirate of Sartosa wrote:Also, in what way was it better before? I've the oldest issue I've seen came from 2004, and to be honest, I prefered the newer ones.
There's a few 'review' threads that Kid Kyoto (I think) has done that will show you the content. They used to have new rules and scenarios for games, templates for scratchbuilt vehicles and buildings, modelling items, readers letters, bits of fiction, conversion articles.
There used to be marks on the edges of the pages to show you where to punch holes if you wanted to take pages out the magazine and keep them elsewhere. This was intended because they always had rules and scenarios for things like fantasy Roleplay and army list rules. Although they would later publish compilations of these articles so you didn't have to cut your magazines up.
infinite_array wrote:Wait! Crap, did not mean for that to be offensive. But, c'mon - you can't actually claim that White Dwarf is good for any amount of time over a half hour.
Is there any magazine good for any amount of time over a half hour?
NewYorker and Economist to name a couple, possibly the Atlantic also. There's a good hour or two of reading in each of those.
Vampirate of Sartosa wrote:Automatically Appended Next Post: Also, in what way was it better before? I've the oldest issue I've seen came from 2004, and to be honest, I prefered the newer ones.
2004 isn't nearly far back enough to go.
You've got to go back pre 2000, to find most of the DIY and specialist content that many folks have mentioned, and you've got to go before 1990 to find a time when it actually had some measure of "journalism" regarding, and advertiesments for, non GW stuff.
I'm nostaligic for the 90's WD as that's what I came up with. Despite the DIY content of the 90's it was already a catalog by the time I started reading it, but it was a catalog with redeeming features. Not so anymore.
weird; this poll has 51 positive votes (47 if you take away the "joke" 9s and 10s), but none of these people post a message. Hello guys, are you afraid of being ripped apart by a raging mob? Nobody here with a 6+ oppinon dares to post. Its only the negative people (tbh i think they are right, but you get the point)
MrMerlin wrote:weird; this poll has 51 positive votes (47 if you take away the "joke" 9s and 10s), but none of these people post a message. Hello guys, are you afraid of being ripped apart by a raging mob? Nobody here with a 6+ oppinon dares to post. Its only the negative people (tbh i think they are right, but you get the point)
My guess would be yes. In my experience, anyone that likes anything that GW does gets the internet equivalent of being drug out of the place and beaten to a pulp.
Alright then, have at me, I originally posted 7/10 though I can't honestly remember the older wd (though I do remember sawyer). Interestingly my vote seemed to drop off though, so have voted again.
I voted this as i still enjoy reading it, still look forward to it and still value the content. Of course I want more for my money though, more battle reports, regular painting and modelling articles.
I remember years ago they did an article that allowed you to create rules and relative points values for a vehicle of your own design, would like to see that again
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Havok210 wrote:
MrMerlin wrote:weird; this poll has 51 positive votes (47 if you take away the "joke" 9s and 10s), but none of these people post a message. Hello guys, are you afraid of being ripped apart by a raging mob? Nobody here with a 6+ oppinon dares to post. Its only the negative people (tbh i think they are right, but you get the point)
My guess would be yes. In my experience, anyone that likes anything that GW does gets the internet equivalent of being drug out of the place and beaten to a pulp.
1 at a time or all at once, ill take you all on! Waaaaagh!
kitch102 wrote:Alright then, have at me, I originally posted 7/10 though I can't honestly remember the older wd (though I do remember sawyer). Interestingly my vote seemed to drop off though, so have voted again.
I voted this as i still enjoy reading it, still look forward to it and still value the content. Of course I want more for my money though, more battle reports, regular painting and modelling articles.
I remember years ago they did an article that allowed you to create rules and relative points values for a vehicle of your own design, would like to see that again
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Havok210 wrote:
MrMerlin wrote:weird; this poll has 51 positive votes (47 if you take away the "joke" 9s and 10s), but none of these people post a message. Hello guys, are you afraid of being ripped apart by a raging mob? Nobody here with a 6+ oppinon dares to post. Its only the negative people (tbh i think they are right, but you get the point)
My guess would be yes. In my experience, anyone that likes anything that GW does gets the internet equivalent of being drug out of the place and beaten to a pulp.
1 at a time or all at once, ill take you all on! Waaaaagh!
7/10?!?
WHATS WRONG WITH YOU MAN? Cant you read? are you competely nuts?? What a load of rubbish!!
Complete and utter dross, not fit to use as toilet paper. 1/10. It's nothing more than 'buy this, buy that and don't forget that LotR is still a viable game!' pffftt.....
I remember when WD covered all sorts. It had much love for what are now known as Specialist Games, proper bat reps and good quality interviews and painting guides. Not to mention ATOFG's and some brilliant scenarios to try out. It used to be a proper magazine, occasionally over 200 pages. Now? Worthless tripe, a stinking cesspool of filth.
It still has some fairly good painting advice (and recently modelling advice for working with Finecast).
Some of the articles that a lot of people are complaining about WD no longer having can be found on the website in the forum of the blog, so it not being in WD isn't much of an issue.
I miss some of the more unique parts (contributors insights in to armies, themes, and experiences).
It could do with being a magazine that follows such topics like tales of #gamer(s) and shows people how to build an army to a budget/theme. And maybe showing how to convert some of the missing things from codexes too.
If you really want to know why so many 'veterans' hold the old WD in high regard and pour scorn on its slow decline, you should read H.B.M.C's tongue in cheek review of an old-ish issue here:
For me, it highlights what I used to enjoy about WD (and still do to a certain degree) and that's the battle reports. Yes, they are horribly staged but they are good pieces of bubblegum fluff, enough to entertain for 10 mins or so and sometimes enough to spark the imagination off.
Do you know, I think you've hit the nail on the head right there.
The magazine doesn't feel like it is written by a normal, flesh and blood, same as you and I, hobbyist. There is so much advertising, so much being inserted into every piece of writing - be it model articles, painting or even battle reports, that it pollutes the bits that maybe are more genuine, and perhaps haven't been through the 'propaganda' department.
The magazine used to be a cracking read, and still give the feeling of being impartial, even long after WD stopped featuring other companies and having any need for impartiality.
So what has changed?
I would share an experience I had, if I may.
Long ago when I was working for GW, during the 'dip' period following the LoTR movies and when the sales of the system were radically dropping, my store was visited by one of the WD writers. I won't give his name, suffice to say that he would have been recognised if you read WD at the time.
Now I understand the need for being passionate about your job - about the need to have some belief in the company you work for, but there is usually an imaginary line in the sand - the one where you are able to judge things based on some kind of objectivity, to make rational judgements about what you are being told by your superiors. Now this, to be honest, was a pretty bad time to be working for GW, not least because of the complete lack of understanding exhibited by the higher ups in the company, who could not accept that sales of LoTR were dropping so radically. That could not connect the high sales of the game to the release of movies (and a short time for the DVDs), and might have conjectured that such sales would drop once the movies started to fall from popular attention. Now of course GWHQ knew exactly what was going on, but that didn't stop the stubborn sales directives and pep talks (read: admonishments) coming on a regular basis. Now while you might expect such an attitude from a regional manager, who is parroting what has been told to him by HQ, one would expect a 'journalist' from the magazine to both be more objective, and in all honesty have more intelligence (or at least credit the staff in that regard). However, what did the staff and I, who had so enthusiastically begun conversing with him get to hear? A continuation of the same thing, an unswerving faith in the viability of the system and how it should be still sprouting legs and making it's own way off the shelf regardless of other issues. Thinking of the conversation now, it reminds me of that scene in Family Guy. The one where Joe starts to cry in the pub, make a scene, and Peter and the others start to slowly slide away without Joe noticing. That was how I felt at the time, but while sharing a brief eye contact with the other staffers sat around, it was obvious that WD guy inhabited an entirely different plane of existence to us. The point isn't so much the issue he was talking about, but more the fact that it was so utterly disconnected from reality.
Now of course it's impossible to say whether this chap's opinions were just his own, or reflective of his office, but you have to think about the kind of working environment that could spawn such a massively subjective (and inaccurate) viewpoint of things. I know that if I came up with a controversial viewpoint amongst my gaming group, I don't know: "GW plastic tank kits are fairly priced" or "the spray gun is the finest on the market" I would get shot to pieces. Had I said the same thing even when working at GW, no less from some of the managers I worked under, it probably would have been challenged.
But, and I think this is the issue here (and this relates not only to White Dwarf, but also the way the company has behaved over the last couple of years concerning a variety of issues), I think the upper echelons of the company have surrounded themselves with people who like to say 'Yes', and this is a disease that has spread throughout all branches of the company. It was a change I observed regarding not only regional managers, but also those at a local level. That White Dwarf is an absolute waste of paper compared to how it once was, that the finecast launch was almost comically badly timed with a price rise, the switch to new RoW policies, the secrecy policies. I could go on and on about the kinds of issues that have had hundreds of Dakka posters shaking their heads in disbelief over the last few years. How can any of these make sense to someone who can truly regard themselves as a hobbyist, and wants the best thing possible for the hobby itself? The simple answer is they can't. They might make sense to HQ, who have no care for the hobby itself beyond the revenue it brings (and you should hear the terms used to describe those who buy their products), but they most certainly don't make sense to anyone who genuinely has a passion for modelling and tabletop gaming. So what happens when your underlings complain, and comment there might be a better way of doing things? You replace them with someone who sees eye to eye with you - and this continues, this sorry state of affairs that removes anyone with any backbone (and I saw this happen on so many occasions, to people who passionately believed in the hobby) until you are left with a collection of people who just nod and tow the official line regarding anything they are asked to do.
And so that's why White Dwarf reads in the way that it does, as a advertising brochure completely devoid of any journalism. Those who are to young to remember how the magazine used to be even 5 or 6 years ago, I feel sorry for you, because by any form of comparison the current example is not worthy to share the same name on the top of the page. Sorry to go off on one a bit (the perils of the internet!), but from my own experiences I think what has happened to the magazine is indicative of a wider trend throughout the whole company, of a disconnection between the company and what its fans want. And until that changes (either a genuine hobbyist takes control of the reigns) then we can't expect the magazine to be worth anything like it's asking price, or any kind of actual journalism to be inside its cover.
I remeber anticipating a copy of WD when I was at home for the School Holidays (Boarding School).
The NAFFI used to maybe get a couple of copies that were highly sought after and maybe a couple of weeks out of date but I'd head down there, DeutschMarks in hand to grab the latest issue.
There was no LotR at this point, and I remember one month they released Lizardmen and you got a Free couple of Skinks on the front.
I also remember a Battle Report where a Guard Tank army faced off against Space Marines, this was before any Imperial Armour etc..
I even have the Chapter Approved Book at home which was a collection of Articles and other bits and Pieces from WD, had the Sisters List in as well as the Armoured Company lists.
It also has an advert page in it with some prices, they used to be low...
I remember the back of the magazine was a catalogue, yes of the new releases, but unpainted unassembled and with all the little part numbers etc and there at the bottom and invitation to call the "mail order trolls" Being a recent returner to the hobby imagine my surprise that you can't buy bitzs any more!
I guess I'm nostalgic for the old White Dwarf, long has it been since I picked up a copy to buy.
Pacific wrote:But, and I think this is the issue here (and this relates not only to White Dwarf, but also the way the company has behaved over the last couple of years concerning a variety of issues), I think the upper echelons of the company have surrounded themselves with people who like to say 'Yes', and this is a disease that has spread throughout all branches of the company. It was a change I observed regarding not only regional managers, but also those at a local level. That White Dwarf is an absolute waste of paper compared to how it once was, that the finecast launch was almost comically badly timed with a price rise, the switch to new RoW policies, the secrecy policies. I could go on and on about the kinds of issues that have had hundreds of Dakka posters shaking their heads in disbelief over the last few years. How can any of these make sense to someone who can truly regard themselves as a hobbyist, and wants the best thing possible for the hobby itself? The simple answer is they can't. They might make sense to HQ, who have no care for the hobby itself beyond the revenue it brings (and you should hear the terms used to describe those who buy their products), but they most certainly don't make sense to anyone who genuinely has a passion for modelling and tabletop gaming. So what happens when your underlings complain, and comment there might be a better way of doing things? You replace them with someone who sees eye to eye with you - and this continues, this sorry state of affairs that removes anyone with any backbone (and I saw this happen on so many occasions, to people who passionately believed in the hobby) until you are left with a collection of people who just nod and tow the official line regarding anything they are asked to do.
Wow I always thought that there must have been a time before HBMC had "failcast" as every other word I just wasn't ever expecting to see it!
Nice review btw.
Me I remember WDs hayday as #90-#130, particularly the earlier part where it was more of an industry mag followed by RT/WHFB 3rd and Thrudd of course. Still bought it throughout the Red period but final stopped getting every one by 2000.
Since then I have got the odd special issue and for some reason the last four (SoB/DF/Necrons).
It's better than it was last year, it's not a patch on what it was.
curtistandoh wrote:3/10, now it's just advertisment.
this, exactly.
Also print is dead in the age of the internet anyway.
I use to like other gaming mags too, but why pay almost 10 dollars for the content in a single mag when you can get up to date content, rumors and images on a smart phone or PC for free in seconds? Even if it was still awesome, I'd have a tough time with the price tag, like I do for any magazine...
However, this has been taken to the next step by having any new kits/units generally rampaging their way through the enemy army.
