The title and this link says it all, I read on Beasts of War that it's comming in Feburary.

http://heroclix.com/announcements/boldly-go-where-no-clix-have-gone-before/

w00t! it's Next Generation Trek! Not that crappy Abrams stuff with the chubby Enterprise.

Very, very nice.

I saw Bill Shatner live in Melbourne this year.

Live long and Prosper fellow Trekkers!

Must resist pick and play Klingons...

So this game is compatible with all other heroclix games. I can't wait for spiderman to beat up the starship enterprise.

ShumaGorath wrote:I can't wait for spiderman to beat up the starship enterprise.

Finally -- Star Trek becomes interesting!

Not interested in this at all.

seems to have TNG + TOS/TMP + Voy

and if your not interested either don't post or explain....

This is neat, i might get a starter and try it with the kids.

btw why would you open thread and then post how you are not interested. Only wasting your time foo.

Of all the ships to include in the starter, they choose a Nova-Class. How strange.

Has anyone played Heroclix recently. Last time I tried it, I was pretty bored. I prefer the rules from the Star Wars CMG game.

Anung Un Rama wrote:Has anyone played Heroclix recently. Last time I tried it, I was pretty bored. I prefer the rules from the Star Wars CMG game.

I played a Superman release event on Saturday - I'd say it is still pretty fun, though I'm not sure how seriously I'd take it as a tournament game.

I'll be interested to see how the rules represent the different ships within ST, though I'm not sure this is a license I'll be buying (in the same way I'm not fussed about Gears of War, Halo or Lord of the Rings as Heroclix licenses).

H.B.M.C. wrote:Of all the ships to include in the starter, they choose a Nova-Class. How strange.

No doubt they wanted to give players something "sleek" and "new" shipwise... and yet save the classes of ships that were centerpieces to the franchise as "rares."

Now, let's see how long it takes for them to do a Borg cube.

I wonder how well these would work with the ACTA Starfleet Battles. Not all that keen on the whole 1 ship per booster bit. With 28 ships and $5-10 bucks per random boost that would get ridiculous to actually get the whole set.

Yeah really each booster should be a Fed and Klingon ship.

H.B.M.C. wrote:Yeah really each booster should be a Fed and Klingon ship.

Agreed. With this setup on boosters the games success is really dependent on how quickly the second-hand market jumps on supporting it.

H.B.M.C. wrote:Of all the ships to include in the starter, they choose a Nova-Class. How strange.

and including the oberth as well makes just as much sense

I'm interested, but never played a clix game. Anyone want to do a rundown of how the system works?

Ahtman wrote:Not all that keen on the whole 1 ship per booster bit. With 28 ships and $5-10 bucks per random boost that would get ridiculous to actually get the whole set.

They've been doing that with a lot of sets lately. Captain America, Street Fighter (amazingly popular - sold out everywhere in about a week), Gears of War, and Green Lantern have all been sold in single figure boosters. Street Fighter seems to have demonstrated that how well a "1 figure per booster" set sells will largely depend on the subject material. And Star Trek is pretty popular.

This appears to be a version of the board game Star Trek Fleet Captains, which uses those exact minis, but as a board game.

Will be watching this, as a full clix game makes me think that they will be expanding past the 24 ships included in the board game.


Also of note, if those 4 ships in the starter are the ones in the picture its a bit unbalanced...as a Neghvar and a Raptor will kick the hell out of the Enterprise E and an Oberth.

I'm personally hoping for a Romulan or Dominion release.

Sgt.Roadkill wrote:

H.B.M.C. wrote:Of all the ships to include in the starter, they choose a Nova-Class. How strange.

and including the oberth as well makes just as much sense

The starter set pic shows a Constitution class ship. In general I think we should look at the fact that they chose to only do Federation and Klingon ships... the two Star Trek factions with the largest varieties of ships and there are still only ~30 ships. Could the choice have been better?-Yes, but given the relatively small number of ships in the set, no doubt anything more interesting or recognizeable is "rare".


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Small, Far Away wrote:I'm personally hoping for a Romulan or Dominion release.

It'll be interesting to see how they do both of those factions... the Romulans had 2 classic series ships, 2 from the classic motion pictures, another 2 from Enterprise, the Scout/Science vessel and D'daridex from TNG... the ship from Nemesis (valdore?)... and the thing from the newest movie which I think would get left out... some of which are common to the klingons.

That's close but not as many as the Klingons and Federation... so it'll be interesting to see what filler they use; whether is some proper named versions of those ships or some made up or obscure class references.

The Dominion actually seems more difficult. There were only 3 maybe 4 ship classes shown... my guess they'd have to include the 2 Cardassian ships and 2 or 3 Breen ships just to fill out their numbers.

I'm buying the entire set. Enterprise vs Dark Phoenix. I'm down.

Cool...But wish there had been a little more variety for races. Like maybe three races to start...but anyway.

Make the more basic, generic, ships commons and uncommon and the more specific ships, and lesser detailed races, rare. That's my hope.

I was expecting Kirk, Uhru and klingon figures, not ships. Yawn!

They could do a release that features several of the aliean races. That would make the most sense, since as other have pointed out many races had only a couple types of ships.

They could cover Romulan, Cardassian, Dominion, Breen, Borg, and several others in a 28 ship set.


I was just about to buy some Firestorm Armada ships to use for Full Thrust, but with this coming I may wait...but then again we are talking almost 5 months...

Mad4Minis wrote:They could do a release that features several of the aliean races. That would make the most sense, since as other have pointed out many races had only a couple types of ships.

They could cover Romulan, Cardassian, Dominion, Breen, Borg, and several others in a 28 ship set.


I was just about to buy some Firestorm Armada ships to use for Full Thrust, but with this coming I may wait...but then again we are talking almost 5 months...

Romulans have about enough ships... Cardassian, Dominion, and Breen collectively do as well... there are also enough random space entities and unaligned ships to fill out a set as well. Who wouldn't want a Husnock Ship?

The borg would be difficult... a borg cube would have to be in the vein of the "Sentinels" for the X-men heroclix, with traditional and voyager style armored version... that they'd have a scout cube and a sphere. I could also easily imagine the borgs use of "assimilated" ships... but that wouldn't necessarily add new models... reused models at best, more likely just different special rules tagged to the model of their choosing.

It'd be nice to see more Delta quadrant races, but most were so insufficiently shown to be represented in this type of game, beyond a single token ship.

In total there seem only enough ships in the franchise to do two more sets like this first one. I think before it gets to that point though, we'd probably see a large number reissued models as named for specific ships.

One Borg cube against how many Starfleet ships to make a balanced scenario? C'mon, I remember seeing the wreckage that was floating around at the beginning of Star Trek: First Contact. Even the Defiant was nearly destroyed.

warpcrafter wrote:One Borg cube against how many Starfleet ships to make a balanced scenario? C'mon, I remember seeing the wreckage that was floating around at the beginning of Star Trek: First Contact. Even the Defiant was nearly destroyed.

Just like the other Hero Clix games, there are liberties taken for the sake of game play.

In the battle at Wolf 359 there were 40 federation starships involved, all destroyed. While in First Contact , the "Battle for Sector 001" there were supposed to be 60 ships with only half destoyed.

There are a couple of justifications... maybe it would just be a battle damaged Borg cube... say representing the Borg cube in First Contact right before the Enterprise arrives where seemingly 4 or 5 ships were able to finish it off; maybe the non-borg player's ships are representative of "hero" ships... with extreme macguffin plot armor... just as the Enterprise single handedly held the Borg at bay and avoid destruction through the use of metaphasic shielding, had their been a fleet with them they might have done better; or its just a game and we have to accept its imperfect.

Had a stray thought...

So if the upcoming Clix ships are compatible with regular Heroclix figures...

Is there currently an Apollo Heroclix figure?

Eumerin wrote:Had a stray thought...
So if the upcoming Clix ships are compatible with regular Heroclix figures...
Is there currently an Apollo Heroclix figure?

...hmm... I do believe there is. Thinking of rebasing a ship as the Apollo? I think I'd go with the USS Amazing Spiderman NCC170-Awesome... if that's the case. Apollo actually works, as would Hercules, Sentinel, Loki, Thor, Nimrod, Monitor, Ares, Spectre, Amazon, Thunderbird... and any other name that appears mythologically or outside the confines of the comic book superhero world.

aka_mythos wrote:

Eumerin wrote:Had a stray thought...
So if the upcoming Clix ships are compatible with regular Heroclix figures...
Is there currently an Apollo Heroclix figure?

...hmm... I do believe there is. Thinking of rebasing a ship as the Apollo? I think I'd go with the USS Amazing Spiderman NCC170-Awesome... if that's the case. Apollo actually works, as would Hercules, Sentinel, Loki, Thor, Nimrod, Monitor, Ares, Spectre, Amazon, Thunderbird... and any other name that appears mythologically or outside the confines of the comic book superhero world.

What!? Barbarian! Uncouth! Uncultured!

I was thinking of a classic episode from TOS!

Who Mourns for Adonais?


Apollo versus NCC-1701 USS Enterprise! Assuming that they have the TV series Constitution-class, this will allow you to have a rematch!

Again, Id like to point out to anyone who wants to get these before February...they are the same minis as in the board game Star Trek Fleet Captains. In the game you get 24 ships (12 each Klingon & Fed), along with the counters, rules, etc to play as a board game. Sure you are paying for a bunch of stuff you may not need, but it gets you the minis 4 months ahead of time. One catch...they arent painted.

Mad4Minis wrote:Again, Id like to point out to anyone who wants to get these before February...they are the same minis as in the board game Star Trek Fleet Captains. In the game you get 24 ships (12 each Klingon & Fed), along with the counters, rules, etc to play as a board game. Sure you are paying for a bunch of stuff you may not need, but it gets you the minis 4 months ahead of time. One catch...they arent painted.

Are they also on clix bases?

Oh, speaking of Delta quadrant, what about Species 8472 (One of the very few redeeming qualities of Voyager)? Release them in the same set as the Borg.

While the space stations are not very mobile, would you like to see them added in to the game? Maybe give them, at the most, a 1" movement rate.

Mad4Minis wrote:One catch...they arent painted.

What? I never heard that before.


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Good heavens, it's true.



What a bizarrely stupid move.

That pic also answers Ahtman's question.

I don't know if its stupid, its a board game, I don't know too many boardgames with pre-painted minis.

ProtoClone wrote:Oh, speaking of Delta quadrant, what about Species 8472 (One of the very few redeeming qualities of Voyager)? Release them in the same set as the Borg.

While the space stations are not very mobile, would you like to see them added in to the game? Maybe give them, at the most, a 1" movement rate.

8472 had one style of ship, maybe they could stretch the number of variations... but like 99% of the stuff in Voyager it'd be part of a hypothetical set of ships without any larger affiliation.

Like the Borg cube, DS9 and some of the other space stations would be neat bigger box items.

Ahtman wrote:

Mad4Minis wrote:Again, Id like to point out to anyone who wants to get these before February...they are the same minis as in the board game Star Trek Fleet Captains. In the game you get 24 ships (12 each Klingon & Fed), along with the counters, rules, etc to play as a board game. Sure you are paying for a bunch of stuff you may not need, but it gets you the minis 4 months ahead of time. One catch...they arent painted.

Are they also on clix bases?

Yes.


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Manchu wrote:

Mad4Minis wrote:One catch...they arent painted.

What? I never heard that before.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Good heavens, it's true.



What a bizarrely stupid move.

That pic also answers Ahtman's question.

Probably done for 2 reasons: 1) the average board gamer wont care about painted game tokens, 2) it keeps the cost down...in this case keeps the MSRP just under the $100 mark...and for those who are interested, it can be had around $80 shipped if you shop around.

The Defiant should be much smaller compared to a Galaxy class ship.Guh...

I realize its a shame... but yeah, they aren't to scale. Then again being one of the first digital ships the Defiant really suffered from scaling issues in the show; sometimes its shown flying across the surfaces of ships that are supposed to only be double its size and other times it appears no bigger than a shuttle craft next to a Galaxy class... and in a couple of instances larger than the main hull of Cardasian's main ship.

I may have to 3D sculpt a defiant and print that up just to show how small it should be.

aka_mythos wrote:I realize its a shame... but yeah, they aren't to scale. Then again being one of the first digital ships the Defiant really suffered from scaling issues in the show; sometimes its shown flying across the surfaces of ships that are supposed to only be double its size and other times it appears no bigger than a shuttle craft next to a Galaxy class... and in a couple of instances larger than the main hull of Cardasian's main ship.

I may have to 3D sculpt a defiant and print that up just to show how small it should be.

This is correct. The defiant actually DOES NOT HAVE a canon size. It's the saddest thing and it's really held it back as far as getting good models made.

Rented Tritium wrote:

aka_mythos wrote:I realize its a shame... but yeah, they aren't to scale. Then again being one of the first digital ships the Defiant really suffered from scaling issues in the show; sometimes its shown flying across the surfaces of ships that are supposed to only be double its size and other times it appears no bigger than a shuttle craft next to a Galaxy class... and in a couple of instances larger than the main hull of Cardasian's main ship.

I may have to 3D sculpt a defiant and print that up just to show how small it should be.

This is correct. The defiant actually DOES NOT HAVE a canon size. It's the saddest thing and it's really held it back as far as getting good models made.

In some instances its 3 decks, other 4 or 5, and in one instance 7... I think generally the best way to scale it is to look at its bridge section from exterior and just scale the model relative to the bridge size of other ships.

Like this, its close enough:

Scale issues on DS9 were bad all over it seemed. Still my favorite series of them all, though.

And a Nova class, in the starter? Sold. I don't even like Clix games, but I love the look of that ship.

This will definitely be my first venture back into Clix games since Mechwarrior. There are numerous elements I enjoy about the approach the company is taking:


~ small first set (20+ ships)
~ 4 ship starter (affordable)
~ single ship boosters -- so you can feed the habit without breaking the bank
~ The clix system in general provides a lot of versatility with abilities in a flexible format. The dial system is innovative and still appealing.
~ Naval Space Combat that isn't overly complex -- now that will be a treat
~ strong likelihood of longevity and thus support / player base
~ my friends are all on board already.

This is all, of course, under the caveat that the rules are fairly enjoyable.

Do some of you view things similarly? Disagree?

For the most part I'd agree with you... buuuuuut I see issues of longevity beyond only a couple expansions, but maybe thats enough.

One thing I'm hoping they do, though there doesn't appear to be any indication they will... and this will cause it to lose points for me... incorporating the flight stands into this game to allow ships to be across different planes... for ships like Birds of Prey and the Defiant, this would be a critical distinction in representing how they're different in terms of how they fight from say a Galaxy class,.

aka_mythos wrote:
In the battle at Wolf 359 there were 40 federation starships involved, all destroyed. While in First Contact , the "Battle for Sector 001" there were supposed to be 60 ships with only half destoyed.

First Contact had Picard show up and say "Alpha Strike here FTW". Wolf 359 had him saying "LOL PWN3D".

I agree that most boardgame fans will not care whether pieces are pre-painted. But this is not just for boardgamers but also for HeroClix fans -- and they do expect pre-paints.

I believe the heroclix versions are pre-painted. Its only the board game versions that are blank.

The other Star Trek boardgame that they've released - the cooperative Abrams Trek game - does include painted figures. In this case, it's painted figures for Kirk, Spock, McCoy, and Uhura, and the new movie versions of the Enterprise and the D-7 (the latter was seen on monitors *very* briefly during the Kobayashi Maru scene). I don't remember exactly what's on the starship clix bases, so I'm not sure whether they're compatible with regular Heroclix stuff.

Of course, the game only includes half a dozen figures, so the cost isn't as big of an issue as it is in the other boardgame.

aka_mythos wrote:I realize its a shame... but yeah, they aren't to scale.

Thats one bummer I have about them. Another example is the Neghvar...according to merzo.net (starship dimensions) its about 40 meters longer than a Galaxy.

In the end its not a huge thing for me. Im going to be using them with Full Thrust, and not as Star Trek vessels, so the lack of scale is only a minor bummer.


Has it been mentioned yet whether the single ship boxes will show you whats inside, or will it be random?

Fixed 4 ship starter, random one isbn booster.

aka_mythos wrote:I believe the heroclix versions are pre-painted. Its only the board game versions that are blank.

That is correct.


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Shrapnelsmile wrote:Fixed 4 ship starter, random one isbn booster.

I was afraid of that. Oh well, ebay it will be then. I dont want to play the "did I get it this time?" game...I want specific ships. Especially since I will be picking up the board game in a couple weeks to get the fleets jumped off, then buying singles to supplement the ones I get in the board game.

aka_mythos wrote:For the most part I'd agree with you... buuuuuut I see issues of longevity beyond only a couple expansions, but maybe thats enough.

Oh gotcha Mythos -- by longevity I mean several expansions, which is "over the hump" for most CMG's. And, as you said, it will be enough to play for years from there.

Seriously, buying collectible miniatures games is like lighting your money on fire because you enjoy the smell. Regarding this game and February, however, I am in the mood for some aromatherapy.

Shrapnelsmile wrote:

aka_mythos wrote:For the most part I'd agree with you... buuuuuut I see issues of longevity beyond only a couple expansions, but maybe thats enough.

Oh gotcha Mythos -- by longevity I mean several expansions, which is "over the hump" for most CMG's. And, as you said, it will be enough to play for years from there.

Seriously, buying collectible miniatures games is like lighting your money on fire because you enjoy the smell. Regarding this game and February, however, I am in the mood for some aromatherapy.

Im really hoping it makes it to even 1 expansion. Take the Star Wars mini games...the regular one with foot troops did great, but the Starship Battles tanked. However, there seems to be quite a bit of Trek coming out over the next few months, so maybe theres a chance...

I know what you mean about lighting up the money...Im gonna drop $80 on the board game just to get 24 unpainted minis...simply because Im too impatient to wait 4 months.

I think the game will make it to at least one expansion as I suspect we'll see at least some portion of sales driven by Trekies who want to use the ships for other games... and with the next Star Trek movie at the horizon, that studio will want to see as much merchandise as possible and will really push companies with current licenses or past licenses to consider getting back into Star Trek.

Speaking of Star Wars, FFG is suppose to have a fighter scale miniature game out next year. What usually kills these franchise games are the exorbitant licensing fees that out pace the tabletop gaming market.

To those with more heroclix experiance what's the going price for these single mini-boosters?

aka_mythos wrote:

What usually kills these franchise games are the exorbitant licensing fees that out pace the tabletop gaming market.

From what I understand thats the reason we have not seen Trek TNG era ships until now...took a company with deep pockets to afford the fees.

The last time I saw this much TNG in one place was the big 1990s micro machines push. Star Trek licensing is pretty rare. That's a good and a bad thing.

Those Micro Machines were cool. I don't like Trek, but I've always thought the ships were fun.

aka_mythos wrote:
To those with more heroclix experiance what's the going price for these single mini-boosters?

There usually $3.50 / booster, which means from a discount site you can get ships for about $2.65 each.

Thanks. After as many years of 40k its hard to grasp the concept of not being screwed over with excessive prices or needing tons to play, I can't help but feel its fair. I'll probably make this a nice bulk purchase at my FLGS to help offset my online shopping.

Shrapnelsmile wrote:

aka_mythos wrote:
To those with more heroclix experiance what's the going price for these single mini-boosters?

There usually $3.50 / booster, which means from a discount site you can get ships for about $2.65 each.

That was what I worried about as well. With one random ship in a box and 28 ships if they were more than $5+ a booster that could get goofy.

Depending on if they do the same thing here as they did with the Street Fighter set, the ships in the starter may have different ability dials, so you have a more level playing field whilst learning to play.

The other thing I'll be waiting to hear is if they're still going to be implementing rarity in the single figure boosters.

Dysartes wrote:
The other thing I'll be waiting to hear is if they're still going to be implementing rarity in the single figure boosters.

Thats my worry as well. Want an Oberth or Bird of Prey?...dime a dozen. Want a Galaxy or Neghvar?...that will be $25 on ebay.

With 28 miniatures... four of which are in the starter... that leaves 24... if they did break it down to Common/Uncommon/Rare it be something like 12 Commons, 8 Uncommons, 4 Rares... and with those numbers there's probably only 1 rare per display.

...in the old decipher STNG ccg days... greatest realization was when we figured out they were putting the packs with the one ultra-rare card per box in exactly the same place... here's hoping for dumb luck.

Dysartes wrote:Depending on if they do the same thing here as they did with the Street Fighter set, the ships in the starter may have different ability dials, so you have a more level playing field whilst learning to play.

This would be kind of cool actually

Dysartes wrote:The other thing I'll be waiting to hear is if they're still going to be implementing rarity in the single figure boosters.

The gravity feed for Lord of the Ring Clix is slated to have rares, and it is a tradition in Heroclix, so you can almost count on it.

Shrapnelsmile wrote:

Dysartes wrote:Depending on if they do the same thing here as they did with the Street Fighter set, the ships in the starter may have different ability dials, so you have a more level playing field whilst learning to play.

This would be kind of cool actually

Yeah it would...maybe generic and character versions of some ships...like a regular Constitution, Galaxy, etc and an Enterprise version.

aka_mythos wrote:With 28 miniatures... four of which are in the starter... that leaves 24... if they did break it down to Common/Uncommon/Rare it be something like 12 Commons, 8 Uncommons, 4 Rares... and with those numbers there's probably only 1 rare per display.

As noted, it is possible (likely?) that the figures from the starter will be in the gravity feeds with different dials.

...in the old decipher STNG ccg days... greatest realization was when we figured out they were putting the packs with the one ultra-rare card per box in exactly the same place... here's hoping for dumb luck.

I don't think we've seen that at our LGS with the Street Fighter feed, but I haven't been paying that much attention.

Shrapnelsmile wrote:The gravity feed for Lord of the Ring Clix is slated to have rares, and it is a tradition in Heroclix, so you can almost count on it.

Given they've only been doing single figure gravity feeds since the Green Lantern movie tie-in set, and I believe that rarity in the gravity feeds only turned up with SF, I doubt it can be described as a tradition just yet - having said that, the trend does seem to be heading that way.

I'm more annoyed at there not now being a DC HeroClix set until "Summer 2012" - but we'll have three fraggin' Marvel sets in the same period...

Gravity feeds?

Balance wrote:Gravity feeds?

Like a hopper system for display/sales. You can only take from the bottom, and when you do another falls (via gravity) to take its place.

Mad4Minis wrote:

Balance wrote:Gravity feeds?

Like a hopper system for display/sales. You can only take from the bottom, and when you do another falls (via gravity) to take its place.

Ah. Was this by any chance implemented as a reaction to people raising their chances of getting the better randoms for mechwarrior clix by going for the heavier boxes? I vaguely remember that being a problem for a while.

Not sure, Balance - with the recent gravity feeds I don't think there's enough of a difference to be noticeable without a set of scales, to be honest.

Hmm - now that's an idea...

Actually, thinking about it, the Street Fighter set doesn't seem to be in a gravity feed at al, unlike Gears of War, GL and Captain America. Assuming that poster on page 1 is accurate, then this Star Trek set won't be a gravity feed either, but will be the same as Street Fighter - though possibly with 12 boosters to a box instead of 24.

Balance wrote:

Mad4Minis wrote:

Balance wrote:Gravity feeds?

Like a hopper system for display/sales. You can only take from the bottom, and when you do another falls (via gravity) to take its place.

Ah. Was this by any chance implemented as a reaction to people raising their chances of getting the better randoms for mechwarrior clix by going for the heavier boxes? I vaguely remember that being a problem for a while.

Someone earlier mentioned that card games were known for having the rare card pack in the same place in every box, I think the gravity feeds are a way of preventing you from choosing the box you want, as you can only reach a few of them.

aka_mythos wrote:
8472 had one style of ship, maybe they could stretch the number of variations...

They could throw in the 2-3 variants STO added.

STO adds a bunch of new ship variants for various races they can and will probably mine.

I wonder how differently/similar this will play to Star Trek: Fleet Captains?

We need a "Wesley in a shuttle" figure that has Probability Control.

theHandofGork wrote:I'm interested, but never played a clix game. Anyone want to do a rundown of how the system works?

Characters have movement, attack, defense and damage values that fluctuate as the dial turns, which is also how you keep track of damage. Range and maximum number of targets is a set value. There are colored squares on the various ability squares that give different powers, and these also fluctuate as the dial turns. An example, in the Street Fighter set one Ryu goes from having Ranged Combat Expert to Close Combat Expert every other click to represent a shift in fighting style. Many of the Hulk figures get bigger stats the more clicks they lose. Beyond that, you assign actions to figures each turn, though if you do an action with the same piece in subsequent turns they take a click of damage for "pushing," so you'll often be moving each piece every other turn. That's the basic gist. Attacking is 2d6+Attack trying to meet or beat their Defense to deal Damage in terms of clicks.

mrfantastical wrote:I wonder how differently/similar this will play to Star Trek: Fleet Captains?

Picture Fleet Captains as a straight combat game, without the board, just open table. Im not sure if the clix dials will have the same stats between the 2 games, but the minis are exactly the same...well except the clix game ones will be painted.

Dysartes wrote:Not sure, Balance - with the recent gravity feeds I don't think there's enough of a difference to be noticeable without a set of scales, to be honest.

Hmm - now that's an idea...

Actually, thinking about it, the Street Fighter set doesn't seem to be in a gravity feed at al, unlike Gears of War, GL and Captain America. Assuming that poster on page 1 is accurate, then this Star Trek set won't be a gravity feed either, but will be the same as Street Fighter - though possibly with 12 boosters to a box instead of 24.

I read from Der Spiele :
Starter 24.99 with 4 exclusive (dials) ships, rule book, two maps and reference card.
12 boosters per case at $4.99 each msrp.

Dysartes wrote:Actually, thinking about it, the Street Fighter set doesn't seem to be in a gravity feed at al, unlike Gears of War, GL and Captain America. Assuming that poster on page 1 is accurate, then this Star Trek set won't be a gravity feed either, but will be the same as Street Fighter - though possibly with 12 boosters to a box instead of 24.

Street Fighter was a gravity feed.

There were a lot more figures than in the other gravity feeds, and it sold out in the blink of an eye (I think my local store sold out exactly one week after it went on sale - and from what I understand, WizKids ended up selling out just from the initial orders). But the sales method for the figures was a gravity feed.

Oh hell yes, I am so all over this!

Q'pla HeroClix!

Shrapnelsmile wrote:I read from Der Spiele :
Starter 24.99 with 4 exclusive (dials) ships, rule book, two maps and reference card.
12 boosters per case at $4.99 each msrp.

$5 bucks a ship and they are random? They had me at the earlier predicted price, but now they lost me again.

Eumerin wrote:Street Fighter was a gravity feed.

There were a lot more figures than in the other gravity feeds, and it sold out in the blink of an eye (I think my local store sold out exactly one week after it went on sale - and from what I understand, WizKids ended up selling out just from the initial orders). But the sales method for the figures was a gravity feed.

Street Fighter wasn't a gravity feed - or, at least, not the same way that GL, GoW and CA were presented as gravity feeds. The brick was presented in the same way that the poster image for Star Trek displays the boosters. They were still single figure boosters, as opposed to the traditional five figure Heroclix boosters, but they weren't in a gravity feed.

Ahtman wrote:

Shrapnelsmile wrote:I read from Der Spiele :
Starter 24.99 with 4 exclusive (dials) ships, rule book, two maps and reference card.
12 boosters per case at $4.99 each msrp.

$5 bucks a ship and they are random? They had me at the earlier predicted price, but now they lost me again.

I don't know Ahtman, I thought the $3.50 each was a bit too good to be true for a spaces skirmish game with only 20-some ships in the entire first release. It is plastic crack that, at $5 / each I will never, ever be paying MSRP for. I can support my local game shop (go crazy squirrel) with other purchases. I agree it's too much. But with internet discount sites it isn't looking so bad.
Consider at Miniature Market or other onliners we're talking not even $4 a ship with no tax. Is that a buzz killer for you really?

Shrapnelsmile wrote:

Ahtman wrote:

Shrapnelsmile wrote:I read from Der Spiele :
Starter 24.99 with 4 exclusive (dials) ships, rule book, two maps and reference card.
12 boosters per case at $4.99 each msrp.

$5 bucks a ship and they are random? They had me at the earlier predicted price, but now they lost me again.

I don't know Ahtman, I thought the $3.50 each was a bit too good to be true for a spaces skirmish game with only 20-some ships in the entire first release. It is plastic crack that, at $5 / each I will never, ever be paying MSRP for. I can support my local game shop (go crazy squirrel) with other purchases. I agree it's too much. But with internet discount sites it isn't looking so bad.
Consider at Miniature Market or other onliners we're talking not even $4 a ship with no tax. Is that a buzz killer for you really?

I dont have a useful LGS, so I do all my buying online. Also, I dont plan on playing the "I hope I get the 1 I want" game...Im going to buy the specific ships I want from ebay...which Im sure will be flooded with them quite quickly.

Considering the odds of getting one of each ship you would, and this is being extremely lenient, you would need to buy roughly 72 boosters (and you still wouldn't get one of each if rares are 1 per case). At $3 that is $216, but at $4 that is $288. You still have no guarantee that way of getting them all. If getting one of each is the goal the practical and cost effective way would be to just buy individual ships of ebay, with perhaps a case up front to get a lot of the common and uncommons out of the way, and perhaps get a rare or 2.

Chase figures (if they exist in this set) might be one per display, but I doubt rares would be - I'd guess a 6/4/2 common/uncommon/rare split.

aka_mythos wrote:With 28 miniatures... four of which are in the starter... that leaves 24... if they did break it down to Common/Uncommon/Rare it be something like 12 Commons, 8 Uncommons, 4 Rares... and with those numbers there's probably only 1 rare per display.

...in the old decipher STNG ccg days... greatest realization was when we figured out they were putting the packs with the one ultra-rare card per box in exactly the same place... here's hoping for dumb luck.

Yep. I still have a Future Enterprise around here somewhere...hopefully there's one in this set!


Ouch....$5 a box? That's probably going to cut into the amount I spend on them...damn.

Ahtman wrote:Considering the odds of getting one of each ship you would, and this is being extremely lenient, you would need to buy roughly 72 boosters (and you still wouldn't get one of each if rares are 1 per case). At $3 that is $216, but at $4 that is $288. You still have no guarantee that way of getting them all. If getting one of each is the goal the practical and cost effective way would be to just buy individual ships of ebay, with perhaps a case up front to get a lot of the common and uncommons out of the way, and perhaps get a rare or 2.

Thats exactly why you buy from ebay. As soon as they are released people will be buying full cases, tearing them open, and selling the ships individually on ebay. Sure, many will cost much more than $5, but it saves you from having to buy tons of blisters or whole cases to get the single one you want.

Mad4Minis wrote:

Ahtman wrote:Considering the odds of getting one of each ship you would, and this is being extremely lenient, you would need to buy roughly 72 boosters (and you still wouldn't get one of each if rares are 1 per case). At $3 that is $216, but at $4 that is $288. You still have no guarantee that way of getting them all. If getting one of each is the goal the practical and cost effective way would be to just buy individual ships of ebay, with perhaps a case up front to get a lot of the common and uncommons out of the way, and perhaps get a rare or 2.

Thats exactly why you buy from ebay. As soon as they are released people will be buying full cases, tearing them open, and selling the ships individually on ebay. Sure, many will cost much more than $5, but it saves you from having to buy tons of blisters or whole cases to get the single one you want.

I agree, that is why I am saying at this price point I'll be going that route and not the booster route.

Platuan4th wrote:

aka_mythos wrote:
8472 had one style of ship, maybe they could stretch the number of variations...

They could throw in the 2-3 variants STO added.

STO adds a bunch of new ship variants for various races they can and will probably mine.

Yesssss, but then you're moving into a apocraphyl ships. Which I don't have a problem in, but considering there are only enough ships in the whole setting for maybe one or two sets, I see it as kind of inevitable. My issue is, what's the point of 2-3 made up variants of a species that appeared in 4 episodes of Voyager?-This isn't 40k where every faction has to be represent equally and evenly. That said, if they do species 8472 I'd want to see just two variants, one of their basic ship, and then one that is the 5 or 6 of that basic ship flying in formation for that charged attack as a single model.

I think the different "modes" of different ships is a far more interesting way to do an expansion. Having the standard ships, but also "cloaked" versions that you can switch in... or being able to switch in and out between birds of prey wings up or wings down... or replace a "galaxy class ship" with a "drive section" and "saucer section". Its all this stuff that distinguishes Star Trek ships from other ships.

I also think ships with a reputation for having significant maneauverablility like the defiant and birds of prey should have the flight stands and benefit from those similarly to the other heroclix games to represent that maneauverability.

Mad4Minis wrote:Someone earlier mentioned that card games were known for having the rare card pack in the same place in every box, I think the gravity feeds are a way of preventing you from choosing the box you want, as you can only reach a few of them.

I mentioned it... but I was talking about a very specific CCG from 10 years ago... things have changed since then and even then most card companies didn't do this.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Dysartes wrote:Not sure, Balance - with the recent gravity feeds I don't think there's enough of a difference to be noticeable without a set of scales, to be honest.

Hmm - now that's an idea...

This is why for a number of sets when you open the box you'll find a plastic cube. That cube evens out the mass between the small models and the bigger models.

aka_mythos wrote:
Yesssss, but then you're moving into a apocraphyl ships. Which I don't have a problem in, but considering there are only enough ships in the whole setting for maybe one or two sets, I see it as kind of inevitable.

We've already seen they're more than willing to do such, too, considering how many "What If/Elseworlds" Clix they've done in the past.

Also, pretty much every Star Wars game has done Expanded Universe, is this really any different?

Ahtman wrote:Considering the odds of getting one of each ship you would, and this is being extremely lenient, you would need to buy roughly 72 boosters (and you still wouldn't get one of each if rares are 1 per case). At $3 that is $216, but at $4 that is $288. You still have no guarantee that way of getting them all. If getting one of each is the goal the practical and cost effective way would be to just buy individual ships of ebay, with perhaps a case up front to get a lot of the common and uncommons out of the way, and perhaps get a rare or 2.

A discounted case up front followed by singles is really the way to play CMG's IMO. You get a lot of core ships, certainly some valuable rares, trade bait, and then pick up a few choice singles on ebay. This, along with NOT playing every faction once they expand has made games like War at Sea very affordable for me. I get every penny out of the system, a lot of mileage. I suspect it will be the same with this Tactics, only far cheaper.

Platuan4th wrote:
We've already seen they're more than willing to do such, too, considering how many "What If/Elseworlds" Clix they've done in the past.

Also, pretty much every Star Wars game has done Expanded Universe, is this really any different?

I think it is, to a degree. Star Trek doesn't have as media diverse an expanded universe... Paramount hasn't been as guiding with its control over the Star Trek IP, such that there maybe rights issues with the STO that has to be worked out... while George Lucas, always wants differnet projects to borrow from each other... Most ST expanded universe has relatively relied on holding to prexisting designs and classes. So the sources of the type of expanded universe designs you could draw from are more limited. When the expanded universe of ST has gone into the realm of inventing new classes, those IPs tend to be poorly regarded, like STO.

My point was, I don't think its necessary and I think there are better things they could do. I think they will inevitably get around to it, but I'm hoping its later rather than sooner.

aka_mythos wrote: When the expanded universe of ST has gone into the realm of inventing new classes, those IPs tend to be poorly regarded, like STO.

By whom, may I ask? Fans are still enjoying STO and the books, and both are still allowed and supported by Paramount.

If you actually look at the "new" classes, they're all just slight modifications to other, more established classes, anyway.

Platuan4th wrote:

aka_mythos wrote: When the expanded universe of ST has gone into the realm of inventing new classes, those IPs tend to be poorly regarded, like STO.

By whom, may I ask? Fans are still enjoying STO and the books, and both are still allowed and supported by Paramount.

If you actually look at the "new" classes, they're all just slight modifications to other, more established classes, anyway.

Yes some fans are still enjoying those things, but simply no where near the greater volume of fans the franchise should be attracting. I got into STO with friends and we all bailed on it for not being anything more than a Star Trek veneer on a poor game. Despite having a good number of die-hard trekie friends who read a lot, they don't care for the books either. STO at its peak had 200,000 players, which isn't that great for an MMO and I know more people who read Star Wars expanded universe books than any Star Trek books. Fans are welcome to enjoy those things, but relative even to the greater market those communities of fans are niche compared to the whole.

I'm not saying this games maker shouldn't appeal to those fans, just that I don't think its a necessary compromise so early on and if it is done it should be done sparingly. Seriously, I mean the game hasn't been released and we're already talking about the inclusion of ships that never existed in any form that can be related to the rest of the ships that really appeared in the tv and movie series. More specifically we're talking about making these additions to factions that aren't significant to the franchise and have only a minimal presence. Cardassians are a more major faction than species 8472 and given the games currently limited scope I don't even think they warrant being more than part of the dominion faction.

Could the game makers expand on every last little faction and subfaction in the setting?-Yes. Is it necessary?-No. They need to play out the factions in order of significance in ways that best represent each faction.

Dysartes wrote:

Eumerin wrote:Street Fighter was a gravity feed.

There were a lot more figures than in the other gravity feeds, and it sold out in the blink of an eye (I think my local store sold out exactly one week after it went on sale - and from what I understand, WizKids ended up selling out just from the initial orders). But the sales method for the figures was a gravity feed.

Street Fighter wasn't a gravity feed - or, at least, not the same way that GL, GoW and CA were presented as gravity feeds. The brick was presented in the same way that the poster image for Star Trek displays the boosters. They were still single figure boosters, as opposed to the traditional five figure Heroclix boosters, but they weren't in a gravity feed.

Strangely, I have a completely different recollection of the Street Fighter point of sales box. But it was a few months ago, and I literally only saw it once (since it sold out so quickly), so I can't rule out that my memory's playing tricks on me.

aka_mythos wrote:

Platuan4th wrote:

aka_mythos wrote: When the expanded universe of ST has gone into the realm of inventing new classes, those IPs tend to be poorly regarded, like STO.

By whom, may I ask? Fans are still enjoying STO and the books, and both are still allowed and supported by Paramount.

If you actually look at the "new" classes, they're all just slight modifications to other, more established classes, anyway.

Yes some fans are still enjoying those things, but simply no where near the greater volume of fans the franchise should be attracting. I got into STO with friends and we all bailed on it for not being anything more than a Star Trek veneer on a poor game. Despite having a good number of die-hard trekie friends who read a lot, they don't care for the books either. STO at its peak had 200,000 players, which isn't that great for an MMO and I know more people who read Star Wars expanded universe books than any Star Trek books. Fans are welcome to enjoy those things, but relative even to the greater market those communities of fans are niche compared to the whole.

I'm not saying this games maker shouldn't appeal to those fans, just that I don't think its a necessary compromise so early on and if it is done it should be done sparingly. Seriously, I mean the game hasn't been released and we're already talking about the inclusion of ships that never existed in any form that can be related to the rest of the ships that really appeared in the tv and movie series. More specifically we're talking about making these additions to factions that aren't significant to the franchise and have only a minimal presence. Cardassians are a more major faction than species 8472 and given the games currently limited scope I don't even think they warrant being more than part of the dominion faction.

Could the game makers expand on every last little faction and subfaction in the setting?-Yes. Is it necessary?-No. They need to play out the factions in order of significance in ways that best represent each faction.

I think we're arguing 2 different things: you're on about short term, whilst I'm on about long term(2-3 years down the line to keep the game going).

aka_mythos wrote:
Could the game makers expand on every last little faction and subfaction in the setting?-Yes. Is it necessary?-No. They need to play out the factions in order of significance in ways that best represent each faction.

Agreed. They have already captured the significant ships from the Kirk generation movies, now IMO they should go TNG, DS9 & Voyager, Picard era movies, Enterprise (TV show), then and only then onto the video games and secondary/fan stuff.

Wow, the game looks interesting and the models look cool, but does anybody know of an older, more popular game similar to this about star trek?

I remember there was/is one, but can't remember the name

LazzurusMan wrote:Wow, the game looks interesting and the models look cool, but does anybody know of an older, more popular game similar to this about star trek?

I remember there was/is one, but can't remember the name

Do you mean Star Fleet Battles?

Star Fleet Battles
Star Fleet Commander
Star Trek II Combat Simulator
ACTA Star Fleet Battles (coming this month)

Dysartes wrote:

Eumerin wrote:Street Fighter was a gravity feed.

There were a lot more figures than in the other gravity feeds, and it sold out in the blink of an eye (I think my local store sold out exactly one week after it went on sale - and from what I understand, WizKids ended up selling out just from the initial orders). But the sales method for the figures was a gravity feed.

Street Fighter wasn't a gravity feed - or, at least, not the same way that GL, GoW and CA were presented as gravity feeds. The brick was presented in the same way that the poster image for Star Trek displays the boosters. They were still single figure boosters, as opposed to the traditional five figure Heroclix boosters, but they weren't in a gravity feed.

You're both right, a little. The term gravity feed in the heroclix community refers not so much to the actual dropdown (by gravity), it refers to the single random minature per blind booster. Heroclix traditionally sells their minis at random, in sleeves of five minis, with one being notably rarer that the remaining four - these are referred to as booster packs. A set that has both gravity feeds and booster packs (like the Captain America set) you will see that the same miniatures may be represented in both set, however the statistics attached to those in the gravity feeds will not be as good - and they'll have a lower point value per piece. This makes them somewhat less sought after. If you went to a Heroclix forum, like HCRealms, and mentioned Street Fighter gravity feeds, you wouldn't be getting corrected.

The Street fighter set was a little different from their other gravity feed sets and I believe a alot of lines could be drawn from ST to SF in terms of the set makeup in terms of rarities. The SF set was 27 booster figs, 23 and 4 "b versions" of the initial 23 that served as "Chase Rares" (because HC has different levels of rarities, Chase being about 1 in 24 from the SF set) and additional 6 figured from the fixed starter set. Out of the first 23 random booster figures the first 10 were common, the next 8 were uncommon, then 3 Rare, and 2 Super Rares, and let us not forget the 4b version Chase figures. Lol, yes Rare, Super Rare, Chase Rare wrap your head around that. And some times the only difference between two of the same named figure (miniature wise) is a different paintjob and a different combat dial. Going back to the top of this paragraph one of the reasons that the SFGravFeed was different was because the size of the set (27 random figs) allowed for different rarities to be implemented, where prior GF displays did not have these.

Anyways because of the simialiar size in the release of the Star Trek License I predict what I've previously written will hold true. Pretty much you go out and buy your fill at your FLGS or DIGS and hit ebay to mop the ships you're missing.

LazzurusMan wrote:Wow, the game looks interesting and the models look cool, but does anybody know of an older, more popular game similar to this about star trek?

I remember there was/is one, but can't remember the name

The one your likely thinking of was StarFleet Battles. However, similar isnt the proper word, not even close. It was light years different. Clix games are meant to be relatively simple, easy to learn, and quick playing. SFB is hugely complex, and very slow playing. It was quite detailed though. There was a later version that simplified it a bit...but it was still far to complex and slow for most people.

Mad4Minis wrote: It was light years different.

Zing!

VermGho5t wrote:Oh hell yes, I am so all over this!

Q'pla HeroClix!

Unfortunately, I would guess that your comment is about 1000 times better than this game will ever be.

I just can't see a collectible TNG-based game spelling anything but disaster. I don't even hate Star Trek (I actually mildly like TNG, even other than Season 4) but I am getting a "cursed franchise" vibe off of this of Nemesis proportions. Someone mentioned the 90s micromachines earlier in this thread and every time I revisit some of these pics I can't help but think that my old micromachines looked better.

Just my opinion -- props&power to those who want this.

Manchu wrote:

VermGho5t wrote:Oh hell yes, I am so all over this!

Q'pla HeroClix!

Unfortunately, I would guess that your comment is about 1000 times better than this game will ever be.

I just can't see a collectible TNG-based game spelling anything but disaster. I don't even hate Star Trek (I actually mildly like TNG, even other than Season 4) but I am getting a "cursed franchise" vibe off of this of Nemesis proportions. Someone mentioned the 90s micromachines earlier in this thread and every time I revisit some of these pics I can't help but think that my old micromachines looked better.

Just my opinion -- props&power to those who want this.

This games gonna sell out fast.

1. It's got an easy to follow, proven rule set, that's actually pretty good for what it is.
2. Fast set up, tear down, and army build.
3. Play time from start to finish can be really fast because of 1. and 2. allowing you to get more games in per night, trying out different combos.
4. Because this isn't even a game (it's an expansion) you can do freaky games with existing HC minis (covering that niche that will).
5. Clix has already got its own player base where demand is established. Add the Trekkies who'll buy in.

Although I think it would be stupid to do so WizKids could use this license once, never revisit it and have nothing but fond memories of the sales. I cannot stress how easy it is to set up and play a game like this, and how fun it is. I don't imagine a Clix tourney being in the same league as a 40k tourney by any way, shape or form, but that being said it's still pretty fun. I am curious about how often they'd revisit the Star Trek license, but they'll pretty much have the core ships with the very first set.

Manchu, I don't see this being the end all in Star Trek fleet battle games, not by any means. In that I believe you are correct. But this expansion will be a fun stop gap.

Actually SW-licences are way cheaper than most people think...

I remember hearing that the license for the all those SW miniature game collectively was ~$1.2M/yr +% of profit. On their best year they made double that and they discontinued when they started to only break even.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

MightyGodzilla wrote:
This games gonna sell out fast.
...
Although I think it would be stupid to do so WizKids could use this license once, never revisit it and have nothing but fond memories of the sales. I cannot stress how easy it is to set up and play a game like this, and how fun it is. I don't imagine a Clix tourney being in the same league as a 40k tourney by any way, shape or form, but that being said it's still pretty fun. I am curious about how often they'd revisit the Star Trek license, but they'll pretty much have the core ships with the very first set.

I think they will sell out, but that its going to be driven as much by Star Trek collectors as it is by Trekies interested in the game. So sell out at first, but where the second wave of availibility of the core set will probably be disappointing on Wizkids end. I think they'll do very well, but only half so because of the rules.

Like every Heroclix game that's preceeded it, if they revisit this game they will use expansions to add variants to ships that exist in preceeding sets. If past Heroclix are precedent in regurgitating core characters... every variation of the names will be used... i.e.: USS Enterprise -D, Enterprise D, Galaxy Class: Enterprise, Battle damaged Enterprise D, Enterprise D Drive Section, Enterprise D Saucer Section, NCC 1701-D, Future Enterprise... etc.

aka_mythos wrote:Future Enterprise

Galaxy Class Dreadnought with the megaphaser...yes please. That would just put it over the top. Im already excited enough that they have included the Nebula Class in the first set, thats one of my favorite TNG Fed ships.

Mad4Minis wrote:

aka_mythos wrote:Future Enterprise

Galaxy Class Dreadnought with the megaphaser...yes please. That would just put it over the top. Im already excited enough that they have included the Nebula Class in the first set, thats one of my favorite TNG Fed ships.

All the major factions have been shown with "Dreadnought" like ship... that might as well be the Federation's. Romulans would have the Valdore, the Klingons would have the Fek'lar, Dominion those ships that were acutally called "Dominion Dreadnoughts".

It will be interesting to see what sort of special abilities are given to the non-warships like the Nebula and Oberth to compensate to some small degree for the lack of fire power. Two ships with larger than standard sensor equipment... how will that play out.

So far from what I have seen and read the Star Trek set will not be compatible with the "Standard" Heroclix set. It would make no sense to have *Insert favorite Hero or Villain here* go up against the USS Enterprise. I can see them using the "Clix system" for the game and setting everything up based off of the Heroclix setup but I don't see the ship's being crossed over to the standard tournament set-up.

hpred wrote:So far from what I have seen and read the Star Trek set will not be compatible with the "Standard" Heroclix set. It would make no sense to have *Insert favorite Hero or Villain here* go up against the USS Enterprise. I can see them using the "Clix system" for the game and setting everything up based off of the Heroclix setup but I don't see the ship's being crossed over to the standard tournament set-up.

It is made to use the exact Clix rules...IE the powers, abilities, colors, etc on the dial mean the same thing...but no they arent meant to fight against Spiderman, Batman, etc. Basically its a case of "same rules, different universe".

Mad4Minis wrote:

hpred wrote:So far from what I have seen and read the Star Trek set will not be compatible with the "Standard" Heroclix set. It would make no sense to have *Insert favorite Hero or Villain here* go up against the USS Enterprise. I can see them using the "Clix system" for the game and setting everything up based off of the Heroclix setup but I don't see the ship's being crossed over to the standard tournament set-up.

It is made to use the exact Clix rules...IE the powers, abilities, colors, etc on the dial mean the same thing...but no they arent meant to fight against Spiderman, Batman, etc. Basically its a case of "same rules, different universe".

That was the impression I got when I saw it listed as Heroclix Tactics - however, if they get other licenses for space fleet style games (such as Babylon 5, for instance), then they could be mixed.

aka_mythos wrote:

Mad4Minis wrote:

aka_mythos wrote:Future Enterprise

Galaxy Class Dreadnought with the megaphaser...yes please. That would just put it over the top. Im already excited enough that they have included the Nebula Class in the first set, thats one of my favorite TNG Fed ships.

All the major factions have been shown with "Dreadnought" like ship... that might as well be the Federation's. Romulans would have the Valdore, the Klingons would have the Fek'lar, Dominion those ships that were acutally called "Dominion Dreadnoughts".

It will be interesting to see what sort of special abilities are given to the non-warships like the Nebula and Oberth to compensate to some small degree for the lack of fire power. Two ships with larger than standard sensor equipment... how will that play out.

The Fek'lar is an older dreadnought, think SFB era. The Neghvar is the closest thing they have in TNG, though Ive seen it referred to as a Battleship more than a dread. The Valdore also isnt a Dread, its a Warbird class vessel...essentially a replacement for the D'Deridex class commonly seen in TNG series shows. The Valdore is somewhat smaller...around 903 meters as opposed to almost 1500 meters for the D'Deridex.

The episode "All good things" (featuring the Galaxy Dread) is one of the few uses of a true Dreadnought in TNG, most of them are from the SFB universe/era.

It should be noted I am not including anything from the video games, as they are not canon...closer to Fan Fic IMO.

Only the ships and schematics from the Star Trek II Starship Combat simulator are canon for any Star Trek. Ever.

Ahtman wrote:Only the ships and schematics from the Star Trek II Starship Combat simulator are canon for any Star Trek. Ever.

I can somewhat agree...if your referring to tabletop games that dont use ships featured in the TV and movie series. . Someones bound to mention SFB but thats based off of the cartoon series, which isnt canon. Anything show in the live action movies and TV shows is obviously canon.

I don't know that much about the classes myself but that recent video game they had taught me Sovereigns kick-ass.

KamikazeCanuck wrote:I don't know that much about the classes myself but that recent video game they had taught me Sovereigns kick-ass.

Well, there is a generous amount of "hero factor" going there. The last Enterprise is/was a Sovereign, so it gets a bit of extra. Kind of the way the Galaxy Class always seemed to throw down quite well in TNG, considering the fact its classed as an Exploration Cruiser, and is somewhat poorly armed for its size. That being said, the Sovs are a huge improvement combat wise from the Galaxy.

Heres a breakdown:

Soveriegn:

12 Type XII Phaser banks
1 quantum torpedo tube
4 Photon Torpedo tubes


Galaxy:

12 Type X Phaser Banks
2 Photon Torpedo Tubes

Well I think all federation ships are exploration/science vessels. The defiant is one of their only dedicated warships.

Mad4Minis wrote:
The Fek'lar is an older dreadnought, think SFB era. The Neghvar is the closest thing they have in TNG, though Ive seen it referred to as a Battleship more than a dread. The Valdore also isnt a Dread, its a Warbird class vessel...essentially a replacement for the D'Deridex class commonly seen in TNG series shows. The Valdore is somewhat smaller...around 903 meters as opposed to almost 1500 meters for the D'Deridex.

The episode "All good things" (featuring the Galaxy Dread) is one of the few uses of a true Dreadnought in TNG, most of them are from the SFB universe/era.

It should be noted I am not including anything from the video games, as they are not canon...closer to Fan Fic IMO.

The Fek'lhr and the Chang are the off screen names of the two big Klingon ship that appear in the "future" era of "All good things..." those were what I was refering to.
http://memory-beta.wikia.com/wiki/IKC_Fek'lhr_(Voodieh_class)

The model for the Fek'lhr in "All Good Things..." was reused, I believe with modifications, as the Negh'var. The Negh'var is supposed to be the Klingon equivalent to a Galaxy Class so a future Negh'var in the form of the Fek'lhr seems about right.

The Valdore isn't as large as a "dreadnought"... but its supposed to have been built in response to Negh'var and Sovereign class ships. I'd say its more even with a Sovereign class ship, but the Sovereign and Galaxy class ships' armaments aren't so different. Both Sovereign and Valdore classes have less extra space and equipment than the Galaxy and Negh'var, but are armed similarly.

This game has the advantage of being able to draw from the "future" timeline or the actual future as later series and movies showed it. On one hand you have Valdore, Sovereign, and Negh'Var and on the other the Future Enterprise, future Fek'lhr, and and probably a hypothetical future Valdore or something like it. Given the more free form nature of Heroclix, they'll probably have both sets.

...Random thought for ship variants, but I think it'd be appropriate for their to be both a Voyager and a Voyager with borg tech. Also the Nova class is also shown in Voyager with a "future" refit... when Captain LaForge has his cameo.

Wonder if we'll see the Peregrine and other fighters thanks to the Dominion War episodes.

I imagine those would probably work best as squadrons represented by a single clix-stand with the "squadron" of models.

aka_mythos wrote:I imagine those would probably work best as squadrons represented by a single clix-stand with the "squadron" of models.

Agreed. Kinda like Elementals and Infantry from Dark Ages.

This made my day!

Would it be feasible to use these and make up your own game system based around something like Gothic?

Just wondering as i love the models, but don't like the idea of a simplified pace combat game :/

LazzurusMan wrote:Would it be feasible to use these and make up your own game system based around something like Gothic?

Just wondering as i love the models, but don't like the idea of a simplified pace combat game :/

Rebase them for use in SFB.

How confusing is SFB first? And it looks really old... :/

LazzurusMan wrote:How confusing is SFB first? And it looks really old... :/

It's pretty confusing when you're first getting into it due to how in depth it is, but as with all games, it grows easier.

However, I find BFG isn't a good system for Trek due to the low amount of weapons on ships and how shields work in universe.

LazzurusMan wrote:How confusing is SFB first? And it looks really old... :/

Star Fleet Battles deserves awards for how well organized and clear the rules are.

However, I personally don't find them fun. SFB has players go through a complex provess for each ship each turn: Ships allocate power to various systems, move in impusles that split up phases, etc.

It's interesting for it's depth and well-written... but I have no interest in playing it. A lot of games (BFG, ACTA, etc.) use some sort of abstractions for 'special orders' to achieve similar depth with faster play. SFB laughs at this crude, childish behavior!

aka_mythos wrote:
This game has the advantage of being able to draw from the "future" timeline or the actual future as later series and movies showed it. On one hand you have Valdore, Sovereign, and Negh'Var and on the other the Future Enterprise, future Fek'lhr, and and probably a hypothetical future Valdore or something like it. Given the more free form nature of Heroclix, they'll probably have both sets.

...Random thought for ship variants, but I think it'd be appropriate for their to be both a Voyager and a Voyager with borg tech. Also the Nova class is also shown in Voyager with a "future" refit... when Captain LaForge has his cameo.

Now it would be great if they did that, Im all for variants, especially if its a proper model and not just a relabeled base. One very cool thing to see would be models for the damaged Enterprise and Reliant from Wrath of Khan. Maybe make it a nice little 2 ship set, with special rules for battle in the nebula.

Khan: THERE SHE IS!!...not so damaged as we would be led to believe...

Spock: Captain, she can still outrun and outgun us...

Mad4Minis wrote:
Now it would be great if they did that, Im all for variants, especially if its a proper model and not just a relabeled base. One very cool thing to see would be models for the damaged Enterprise and Reliant from Wrath of Khan. Maybe make it a nice little 2 ship set, with special rules for battle in the nebula.

Khan: THERE SHE IS!!...not so damaged as we would be led to believe...

Spock: Captain, she can still outrun and outgun us...

At that point, they'd pretty much have to give the Enterprise one of the heroclix flight stands.
Spock: His pattern indicates two-dimensional thinking.

Balance wrote:

LazzurusMan wrote:How confusing is SFB first? And it looks really old... :/

Star Fleet Battles deserves awards for how well organized and clear the rules are.

However, I personally don't find them fun. SFB has players go through a complex provess for each ship each turn: Ships allocate power to various systems, move in impusles that split up phases, etc.

It's interesting for it's depth and well-written... but I have no interest in playing it. A lot of games (BFG, ACTA, etc.) use some sort of abstractions for 'special orders' to achieve similar depth with faster play. SFB laughs at this crude, childish behavior!

Good summary. Heres my addition...32 "impulses" per turn. That means there are 32 steps in each turn. Per ship. Its an awesomly detailed simulation, but Ill have to agree that "fun" doesnt show up often during a game.