I was glancing through some threads, and I heard mention of a Draft occuring whenever. So, it got me to thinking. Currently a goodly percentage of people are too fat to enlist, so what would happen if a draft were to occur?

Well, if the manpower requirements during a draft could be met by only drafting non-obese people, then we will only draft the non-obese. If we're in a bad enough situation that that is no longer good enough, we will begin drafting the obese and probably riding them harder to get them into proper shape.

Melt it off with PT and hatred. I hate fat bodies and I love sweat. Mixing the two is a sort of sadistic pleasure.
If they initiate a draft, its very likely the obese would not find themselves exempted. Throw them in a recycle company or a fitness readiness company melt it off and if it doesn't work out after three months release them from thier obligation.

Draft? Really? Any age limits?

Auston, I disagree. They might throw the lardo's into a special longer-term program to prep them for proper training, but the military machine isn't going to waste the time, money, or resources to prep people unfit for service when they have a pretty large pool of people who are. If we're calling a drat, gak has hit the fan and we won't have the option to wait that long.

djphranq, there won't be a draft in this country, its detrimental to our military capability, and most of the senior military leadership can remember a time when we had a draft, and they don't want to see it return.

chaos0xomega wrote:Auston, I disagree. They might throw the lardo's into a special longer-term program to prep them for proper training, but the military machine isn't going to waste the time, money, or resources to prep people unfit for service when they have a pretty large pool of people who are. If we're calling a drat, gak has hit the fan and we won't have the option to wait that long.

Yeah, most likely they would simply be exempt, just as someone with any other physical disability would be exempt. If they were to be pressed into service, they would likely be placed in non-combat logistical roles based in the United States; where their obesity wouldn't be a major issue.

If there is a draft then anyone over the age of 18 and a male is part of the selection pool. If you are disabled or in some sort of higher education(university or medical schools for example) then you are also exempt. If you ever got a little card saying "Selective Service" that is your draft card, keep it with you and carry it proudly because its also used in conjunction with voter registration.



Personally I have flat feet and knock knees. It sucks because it might just prevent me from ever joining anything. Hopefully I can get a good mile time and make up for those facts.

18-42 (17 with a parent waiver) is the going age limit now. As for obesity well......its the Chub Scout program. Remedial PT in the afternoon. Military its not just the weight its also fat percentile. For men its the tape around the neck and AB's three times. Basically your stuck in a military training battalion to you meet requirment. If not then your a detail ranger in the training company and up to you the unit commander to drum you out.
Granted military service is not highly regarded. I much rather deal with a volunteer then with a draftee. Since I am a professional NCO I treat both the same. Its up to the individual to conform to standards or not. I'm just there to help him/her to build a better mind and body. I met a lot of individuals who have the misconception of the military. Most of it is being ordered around. I don't order anyone. I suggest that this need to happen and at what priority it is and it up to the individual to perform the task to his/her ability either meet or exceed standards. Its the individual perception of knowing duty, responsibilities, commitment, and maturity.
I will admit. One thing that will make me madder then all heck. Its an unsafe action. Screwing around with a weapon or other combat items will set me off. MUZZLE AWARENESS. I seen it once and had to deal with the aftermath on my first deployment to Afghanistan. Playing grab ass with another soldier in a port a potty and tossed a flash bang in.
Back to topic. Obesity will not keep you out of deployment though lol. Its the best weight lost and muscle building program one can take. One year in a desert, all the free water you can drink does wonders.

edit

Being in higher education does not get you out of the draft. You are allowed to complete the semester and then report to MEPS. They change that awhile back. Obesity is not considered disabled.

edit 2

Join the reserves or national guard. That beats the draft into active duty. As a reserve/national guard and called to active duty you are paid much higher then a active component soldier. Single soldiers get full BAH.

edit 3

OBESITY IS NOT A DISABILITY IN THE VIEW OF THE MILITARY

I take it that you really want to beat the fat out of obese people Jihadin.

Obesity itself is something that can be changed through strict diet and workout routines. Now if you have a heart condition then that really can't be fixed unless the government wants to pay for a surgery which they rarely want to do.

If you plan to join the military, Army standards are the toughest at a basic level. I would reckon that Para-rescue would be tougher but that's another story.

Just as an aside, a draft happening in the US at this stage is a political absurdity. For now, reinstating the draft is tantamount to political suicide. No politician would vote for it.

The situation would need to be pretty **** for us to start drafting again. We wouldn't do it even if it were prudent.

They would have to be rather desperate to draft my fat hariy a**.

Like enemies landing on our shores desperate.

halonachos wrote:If there is a draft then anyone over the age of 18 and a male is part of the selection pool. If you are disabled or in some sort of higher education(university or medical schools for example) then you are also exempt. If you ever got a little card saying "Selective Service" that is your draft card, keep it with you and carry it proudly because its also used in conjunction with voter registration.

Higher education doesn't exempt you, thats an urban myth.

If a draft does come up, I would enlist (or if its an option to you apply for OTS/OCS). At least you have more control over where and what you end up doing, so that when the cold dark hand of death embraces you to carry you to the netherworld you can be at peace with yourself knowing that you are dead because you chose the path that led you there rather than being forced on that path by a fat cat in washington.

Fatties are, of course, used as sandbags during drafts.

/joke

chaos0xomega wrote:

halonachos wrote:If there is a draft then anyone over the age of 18 and a male is part of the selection pool. If you are disabled or in some sort of higher education(university or medical schools for example) then you are also exempt. If you ever got a little card saying "Selective Service" that is your draft card, keep it with you and carry it proudly because its also used in conjunction with voter registration.

Higher education doesn't exempt you, thats an urban myth.

If a draft does come up, I would enlist (or if its an option to you apply for OTS/OCS). At least you have more control over where and what you end up doing, so that when the cold dark hand of death embraces you to carry you to the netherworld you can be at peace with yourself knowing that you are dead because you chose the path that led you there rather than being forced on that path by a fat cat in washington.

I've always thought I would just enlist in the navy if their were a draft. Those boats seem pretty safe, also the guns are nice and big

Two quotes from one of the greatest Army movie of all time:

Dewey Oxburger: My name's Dewey Oxburger. My friends call me Ox. You might have noticed that, uh, I've got a slight weight problem. Yeah, yeah I do. Yeah, I do. I went to this doctor. Well, he told me I swallow a lot of aggression... along with a lot of pizzas! Ha Ha Ha! Pizzas! I'm basically a shy person, I'm a shy guy. Uh, he suggested taking one these uh, aggression training courses. You know these aggression training courses like EST, those type of things. Anyway, it cost 400 bucks! 400 bucks to join this thing? Well I didn't have the money and I thought to myself, "Join the army"! It's free. So I figured while I'm here I'll lose a few pounds. And you got what, a 6 to 8 week training program here? A real tough one. Which is perfect for me.

Cruiser: I joined the army 'cause my father and my brother were in the army. I thought I'd better join before I got drafted.
Sergeant Hulka: Son, there ain't no draft no more.
Cruiser: There was one?

Yessir, I am quoting Stripes.

There has been not call nor justification to reinstate the draft since Viet-Nam. The recruitment dynamo of the Defense Department has the Armed Forces well-stocked for decades, even if they claim numbers are down. Only in time of an actual, declared war, would Congress even consider it, but we haven't had one of those since World War II.

The draft occurring at this time is an utter impossibility. People are already disillusioned with the current government. You press them into military service when government approval ratings are this low, AND there is no war on home soil, and you will quickly find yourself fighting a war on home soil.

Ma55ter_fett wrote:

chaos0xomega wrote:

halonachos wrote:If there is a draft then anyone over the age of 18 and a male is part of the selection pool. If you are disabled or in some sort of higher education(university or medical schools for example) then you are also exempt. If you ever got a little card saying "Selective Service" that is your draft card, keep it with you and carry it proudly because its also used in conjunction with voter registration.

Higher education doesn't exempt you, thats an urban myth.

If a draft does come up, I would enlist (or if its an option to you apply for OTS/OCS). At least you have more control over where and what you end up doing, so that when the cold dark hand of death embraces you to carry you to the netherworld you can be at peace with yourself knowing that you are dead because you chose the path that led you there rather than being forced on that path by a fat cat in washington.

I've always thought I would just enlist in the navy if their were a draft. Those boats seem pretty safe, also the guns are nice and big

Those boats are big pieces of metal that bob back and forth in water which means there is a chance the boat will collide with you while you are inside. Fortunately the forces of gravity and momentum are kind enough that you move along with the boat for the majority of the time.

If the super committee....those 12 individuals that got picked to trim a couple trillion dollars from the budget...blows the deadline then the military gets gutted bigger then hell. Which means early retirement after 15 yrs, retention control point of 12 yrs for those that can't get promoted pass E5, bonus to reenlist goes out the window, and units getting deactivated. The Pentagon already stated that the draft MIGHT have to be implemented for 3-4 yrs tour...medical and aviation field is six yrs. Low enlisted soldiers is cheaper then keeping carreer soldiers. That...irks me.
I will admit. I've been popped for overweight at the start of my carreer. Its pretty damn embarressing and a pain in the arse. In fact...I've been popped 4 times for the fat boy program. I will not smoke a over weight soldier. I will not run a overweight 2-4 miles a day. I will not dictate what a soldier can or can not eat. The progress for weight loss is 3-4 lbs a month. No more then six month. After six month then your process out the army unless your deem mission critical then the commander can extend your um...program...overseas...in Afghanistan. For six months you concentrate on what you eat and muscle build up with cardio workout. I will though get you to put on your body armor with your Hooah gear and walk with you for 6 miles every Friday.
Course an individual might be a simple "fix". As in drinking water. If your a soda drinker that also live off power drinks then you are more then likely a easy fix. Your body retains water since its not use to consuming WATER. So one have to convince their body that you are going to drink a good amount of water a day. A good portion of your weight is water retention.
So I drink a lot of water, eat a lot of meat, and veggies. I limit my intake of carbs and pretty much remove sugar from my diet. Don't get me wrong though. I will jail house rape a good chinese buffett for lunch but will have a steak for dinner. I do love my southern sweet tea that I make instead of that instant crap so instead of a full cup of sugar in a pitcher I use a little over 1/4.

AND there is no war on home soil, and you will quickly find yourself fighting a war on home soil.

Well...besides drug cartels war south of the border and some spillage thats happening on our soil. We're starting to get a rash of homegrown terrorists. Like the 50-60 yrs old men that were planning to spread racine around in a couple of major cities. The constitution allows for a overthrow of the gov't by the people. WHich puts us in the military of a moral dillema since we swore to defend the constitution from foreign and domestic enemies. I will not nor expect my soldiers to get motivated for a chance to shoot an american. I will question the order if sent down. I more then likely refuse to give the orders to shoot americans unless their walking dead americans (zombies). Now if shot at then you bet your left nut, a lrg Duncan Donut coffee with cream and suger, and your porn collection then I will engage with some rightous anger cause its now personnel.

Jihadin wrote: If the super committee....those 12 individuals that got picked to trim a couple trillion dollars from the budget...blows the deadline then the military gets gutted bigger then hell. Which means early retirement after 15 yrs, retention control point of 12 yrs for those that can't get promoted pass E5, bonus to reenlist goes out the window, and units getting deactivated. The Pentagon already stated that the draft MIGHT have to be implemented for 3-4 yrs tour...medical and aviation field is six yrs. Low enlisted soldiers is cheaper then keeping carreer soldiers. That...irks me.

This scenario is unlikely (Reenlistment bonuses however probably would decrease) in the case of budget cuts. US military practice has always been personnel and officer retention when the budget is low. We sacrifice material before we sacrifice personnel as a standard practice. I see no reason for this to change. Material costs more in the short term than personnel anyway, and all government money handlers ever think about is the short term.

What you're talking about of is actually more of a European (namely French) military practice.

Give us fatties who play lots of video games command of predator drones.

Horst wrote:Give us fatties who play lots of video games command of predator drones.

No way. Those guys have no honor. Friendly fire would go through the roof, as it were.

Horst wrote:Give us fatties who play lots of video games command of predator drones.

Ironically speaking, the Army has picked up a lot of gamers to fly Predator drone Not fat ones mind you but gamers are the folk who end up in that field it seems.

Also those predators/reaper drone pilots are claiming PTSD for killing insurgents on television while in California

edit 1

The drones are launched from the airfield in Iraq/Afghanistan. When the drones are at sufficient attitude then a hand off is made to the controller in California. It takes 3 secs for the hand over.

Jihadin wrote:Also those predators/reaper drone pilots are claiming PTSD for killing insurgents on television while in California

Pfft. I seriously doubt they actually have PTSD from that, and are just claiming it.

I mean honestly... I kill LOTS of people in video games. Tell me they are real people, I don't think it would change my perspective on it, because I'm conditioned to not care about them at this point.

That hit ARMY Times front page. Want to talk about a blood pressure going up. Everyone on deployments were mad as Hell. SO they ask what computer games they play at home.....GTA was at the top I believe

LordofHats wrote:US military practice has always been personnel and officer retention when the budget is low. We sacrifice material before we sacrifice personnel as a standard practice. I see no reason for this to change.

If you're referring to the Clinton cuts, that wasn't simply a matter of the budget, but the simultaneous conversion to a military which placed greater demands on the officer corps by placing higher ranking officers at positions that were historically left to more junior ones. Basically, the argument is that during the conversion process the military promoted people too quickly, and so placed many young officers into positions for which they were not prepared, or were not conditioned to understand on a cultural level; leading to high rates of attrition (eg. screw you guys, I'll go work in the private sector). This lead the military to institute officer retention programs, and sacrifice concerns over materiel.

chaos0xomega wrote:Auston, I disagree. They might throw the lardo's into a special longer-term program to prep them for proper training, but the military machine isn't going to waste the time, money, or resources to prep people unfit for service when they have a pretty large pool of people who are. If we're calling a drat, gak has hit the fan and we won't have the option to wait that long.

djphranq, there won't be a draft in this country, its detrimental to our military capability, and most of the senior military leadership can remember a time when we had a draft, and they don't want to see it return.

I remember reading "Too Fat to Fight" which claimed that something like 75% of 17-24 year olds were unfit for service for a variety of reasons. Only about 27% were to fat. Still a big chunk but when the ready pool is 25% and we are so desperate to rely on conscription...well it's easier to melt the fat off than say regrow a limb. Education and weight are probably the easiest to answer. I'd rather have a fat ass with a work ethic and some smarts that I can thin down and train than a piece of gak I have to risk my ass and beat on or worse...write a stack of counselings to rid myself of. You cant fix stupid...but fat, that's easy. I'm not saying we'd create a program for that now. But in a draft fat camp and at least a tenth grade level proficiency curriculum are fast and cheap.

Jihadin wrote:Also those predators/reaper drone pilots are claiming PTSD for killing insurgents on television while in California

edit 1

The drones are launched from the airfield in Iraq/Afghanistan. When the drones are at sufficient attitude then a hand off is made to the controller in California. It takes 3 secs for the hand over.

Diagnosing UAV guys with PTSD makes as much sense as giving them air medals, it's fething stupid. I think PTSD is over diagnosed in the first place, but gaks who never even deployed, feth them. I suppose I could see PTSD if say this operator dropped the ball and got someone killed, maybe and this is a longshot maybe killed an asston of Hajj and felt real bad about it. Comparing it to a video game isn't quite right, real people die in theater. They still have to get buried when the birds down, once my xbox is off there's no bodies.
It can get real personal if you know the guys your doing overwatch for, or if you can see a strangers face right before he buys it. But PTSD... really? Drop the T it's not that traumatic you whiny bitches.
In fairness it takes about a minute to a minute and a half to do a handoff between launch and mission shelters.

halonachos wrote:I take it that you really want to beat the fat out of obese people Jihadin.

hahahahahahahahaha....if that was possible, I'd set up a stand on the street and do it to every person that I deem needs it. It's not so much prejudice as it is an unhealthy lifestyle. Kids commit suicide for being bullied because they're too fat. If not bullied, they develop low self-esteem which hinders their ability to be great. Diets do not work. Neither does anything pharmaceutical. We NEED exercise regimes to motivate and drive people back into shape (hopefully without physical force). Fat people who say they are proud for being what they are and encourage their children and other people to do so are BAD PEOPLE. As for drafting and obesity, I'm pretty sure all you do is sign on the line, and if you're not the body shape they want, they will mold you like clay.

LumenPraebeo wrote:

halonachos wrote:I take it that you really want to beat the fat out of obese people Jihadin.

hahahahahahahahaha....if that was possible, I'd set up a stand on the street and do it to every person that I deem needs it

+

LumenPraebeo wrote:My dad smoked, gambled, and drank when i was small...it lessened as I grew older but has now returned as I got older. I cannot respect such a man and wouldn't even flinch if he died. He hit and yelled at me too...

= Us getting some nice insight to your inner motivations and thought process. I feel like were really getting to know you.

Draft the obese anyway, take the napalm out of the bombs and replace it with brownie batter, and drive our wobblesome warriors into a berserk fury that will grind even our stoutest foes cowering into the sand!

*vaguely nods in agreement with the anti-draft sentiments and points about people with weight problems needing to exercise more and knock it off with the fad diets*

Also: not even an allusion to Private Pyle, yet?

Ahtman wrote:

LumenPraebeo wrote:

halonachos wrote:I take it that you really want to beat the fat out of obese people Jihadin.

hahahahahahahahaha....if that was possible, I'd set up a stand on the street and do it to every person that I deem needs it

+

LumenPraebeo wrote:My dad smoked, gambled, and drank when i was small...it lessened as I grew older but has now returned as I got older. I cannot respect such a man and wouldn't even flinch if he died. He hit and yelled at me too...

= Us getting some nice insight to your inner motivations and thought process. I feel like were really getting to know you.

Motivation would not be tough, but to see my thought process, you'd have to be me....or at least learn my life story. In which case...I'm pretty sure anyone who ever did will say I'm either a sociopath, or plain crazy. And I wouldn't have it any other way.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
well....maybe not a sociopath, probably more of just a person that couldn't care less because it doesn't affect him nor his loved ones...and that might be cold and hypocritical, but like I said, I can care less.

You don't come across as a sociopath or crazy, just someone perpetuating the cycle of violence your father inflicted on you on to others, even if it is just in conversation. You have some unresolved daddy issues is all. Not complicated or mysterious at all.

Being over weight will not get you out of a deployment.

Ahtman wrote:You don't come across as a sociopath or crazy, just someone perpetuating the cycle of violence your father inflicted on you on to others, even if it is just in conversation. You have some unresolved daddy issues is all. Not complicated or mysterious at all.

Do not. I type the things I do for a reason, read the whole quotes and post that instead of drawing sentences from my comments to suit your purposes. If you would think deeper, I'm sure you can come to suddenly, out of the blue realize (just as you did by putting two of my sentences together) that thoughts of violence can come from many different causes, some may be from childhood, some may be from teenage years, and some even adulthood. Or it can come from feelings of sorrow, grief, and pity over those that have suffered needless acts of teasing, bullying, or violence inflicted upon ones other than himself. But of course you wouldn't think this, you would take two of my sentences and put it together to support your opinion. Btw, your natural reactions to my counter would be to go on the defense, say sorry, or drive in further guesses in an attempt to prove your point. For both of our sakes, please don't.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Jihadin wrote:Being over weight will not get you out of a deployment.

I know....you posted that already dude.

dogma wrote:

LordofHats wrote:US military practice has always been personnel and officer retention when the budget is low. We sacrifice material before we sacrifice personnel as a standard practice. I see no reason for this to change.

If you're referring to the Clinton cuts, that wasn't simply a matter of the budget, but the simultaneous conversion to a military which placed greater demands on the officer corps by placing higher ranking officers at positions that were historically left to more junior ones. Basically, the argument is that during the conversion process the military promoted people too quickly, and so placed many young officers into positions for which they were not prepared, or were not conditioned to understand on a cultural level; leading to high rates of attrition (eg. screw you guys, I'll go work in the private sector). This lead the military to institute officer retention programs, and sacrifice concerns over materiel.

Not just that. Between WWI and WWII the US Army and Navy prioritized maintaining NCO's and its officer corp over acquiring weapons and equipment. The interesting thing in that case is that we still modernized the Army by matters of organization, but did not equip the modernized divisions with modern equipment (well, we did, but we did it really really slowly). The same thing happened throughout the 1800's. The US military has a long history of prioritizing it's personnel over it's gear when the budget is down. EDIT: Now, that has its downside mind you. I believe there were problems with a shortage of NCO's in WWII because we couldn't get enough them. I'm not saying the way we do things is flawless, just that personnel shortages as a matter of numbers has for the most part never been a problem for the US military as it relates to its budget.

LumenPraebeo wrote:Btw, your natural reactions to my counter would be to go on the defense, say sorry, or drive in further guesses in an attempt to prove your point. For both of our sakes, please don't.

Since you've already placed yourself on the defensive, I doubt that would be the natural reaction of anyone questioning you.

dogma wrote:

LumenPraebeo wrote:Btw, your natural reactions to my counter would be to go on the defense, say sorry, or drive in further guesses in an attempt to prove your point. For both of our sakes, please don't.

Since you've already placed yourself on the defensive, I doubt that would be the natural reaction of anyone questioning you.

Not defensive...mererly outraged that he pulled sentences out of my arse to say something that had nothing to do with what i wrote.

Ahtman wrote:You have some unresolved daddy issues is all. Not complicated or mysterious at all.

Like these poor sweet girls.

LumenPraebeo wrote:
Not defensive...mererly outraged that he pulled sentences out of my arse to say something that had nothing to do with what i wrote.

In this instance there isn't really a difference.

LordofHats wrote:

Horst wrote:Give us fatties who play lots of video games command of predator drones.

Ironically speaking, the Army has picked up a lot of gamers to fly Predator drone Not fat ones mind you but gamers are the folk who end up in that field it seems.

Totally missed this one the first go around.
No. Or at least from my personal experience no. Aside from the casual xbox gamer, few of the operators I know can be considered "gamers." It's an outdoors occupation, Army UAV operators are more likely to hunt, fish, fourwheel, and fight than game.

LordofHats wrote:
Not just that. Between WWI and WWII the US Army and Navy prioritized maintaining NCO's and its officer corp over acquiring weapons and equipment. The interesting thing in that case is that we still modernized the Army by matters of organization, but did not equip the modernized divisions with modern equipment (well, we did, but we did it really really slowly). The same thing happened throughout the 1800's. The US military has a long history of prioritizing it's personnel over it's gear when the budget is down. EDIT: Now, that has its downside mind you. I believe there were problems with a shortage of NCO's in WWII because we couldn't get enough them. I'm not saying the way we do things is flawless, just that personnel shortages as a matter of numbers has for the most part never been a problem for the US military as it relates to its budget.

My point, which in hindsight wasn't clearly made, was that despite budget cuts under Clinton the military focused more on the acquisition of new equipment than it did on officer retention; instead choosing to simply adopt a doctrine of swift promotion. Only after it turned out that many officers chose to leave the services earlier than was expected did officer retention become a priority. The point being that the increasing complexity of military equipment had lead to an increasing need for that equipment to be present in order to train soldiers.

Then, of course, there's that whole military industrial complex thing, which has never really been an issue before.

From reading just the title of this thread i thought it might be about reducing your drag co-efficient by tucking in behind a chubber [facepalm]

Just make a few fat men platoons and feed them the same as the other units, but use them to attack hard to take targets if said targets have food inside. Instant profit.

I have the insulin dependant diabetus so I'm ok! (unless they want to give me a pancreatic transplant!)

I'd only want to join engineers anyway. Being Irish I get a +4 racial bonus to Craft (explosives)

mattyrm wrote: Draft the obese anyway, take the napalm out of the bombs and replace it with brownie batter, and drive our wobblesome warriors into a berserk fury that will grind even our stoutest foes cowering into the sand!

dogma wrote:My point, which in hindsight wasn't clearly made, was that despite budget cuts under Clinton the military focused more on the acquisition of new equipment than it did on officer retention; instead choosing to simply adopt a doctrine of swift promotion. Only after it turned out that many officers chose to leave the services earlier than was expected did officer retention become a priority. The point being that the increasing complexity of military equipment had lead to an increasing need for that equipment to be present in order to train soldiers.

Then, of course, there's that whole military industrial complex thing, which has never really been an issue before.

Ah okay. Then I wonder what may happen if the military faces major cuts again. Will they learn from that situation and maybe take a middle road or go one way or the other...

No. Or at least from my personal experience no. Aside from the casual xbox gamer, few of the operators I know can be considered "gamers." It's an outdoors occupation, Army UAV operators are more likely to hunt, fish, fourwheel, and fight than game.

Well you a dogma can just go and ruin my dillusions of reality then

Draft threads should seriously be locked as soon as they are opened.

There will never be a draft, it is an impossibility. The only way there would ever be one is if the US was invaded. Which will not happen, due to the advent of nuclear weapons the day of global wars between superpowers are over. The only wars that will be fought are proxy wars or wars where only one side (or none) is in possession of nuclear weapons.

Too many Americans are mentally and physically ineligible for service.

Ma55ter_fett wrote:

chaos0xomega wrote:

halonachos wrote:If there is a draft then anyone over the age of 18 and a male is part of the selection pool. If you are disabled or in some sort of higher education(university or medical schools for example) then you are also exempt. If you ever got a little card saying "Selective Service" that is your draft card, keep it with you and carry it proudly because its also used in conjunction with voter registration.

Higher education doesn't exempt you, thats an urban myth.

If a draft does come up, I would enlist (or if its an option to you apply for OTS/OCS). At least you have more control over where and what you end up doing, so that when the cold dark hand of death embraces you to carry you to the netherworld you can be at peace with yourself knowing that you are dead because you chose the path that led you there rather than being forced on that path by a fat cat in washington.

I've always thought I would just enlist in the navy if their were a draft. Those boats seem pretty safe, also the guns are nice and big

You should read up on the Navy some more. The largest gun in the US arsenal is 5 inches in diameter, which is smaller than some of the Army's land borne artillery pieces.
According to the GAO (Government Accountability Office), some 50% of the US naval fleet has failed combat readiness inspections, but that number is deflated due to certain unsavory/illegitimate practices used to keep the remaining 50% of the fleet looking like its good to go. link: http://forbes.house.gov/UploadedPhotos/HighResolution/a91add9b-d57e-4a67-951a-b15d9fffc3c2.jpg , http://www.dodbuzz.com/2011/07/12/surface-navy-were-not-good-to-go/

Naval vessels are very much floating death traps, in fact they are cynically referred to as 'targets' by some surface warfare officers that have realized what is up. Yes, they do have a variety of defensive systems in place, but there is question as to how effective they will actually be in a real wartime scenario.

Soures: I am currently in a class taught by naval officers called "Naval Weapons Systems"

There has been not call nor justification to reinstate the draft since Viet-Nam. The recruitment dynamo of the Defense Department has the Armed Forces well-stocked for decades, even if they claim numbers are down. Only in time of an actual, declared war, would Congress even consider it, but we haven't had one of those since World War II.

Recruitment is well stocked NOW, that wasn't the case 10-20 years ago. I'm sure you find it hard to believe,but the Air Force and Navy actually had trouble meeting its fighter pilot needs for some time because they just weren't getting enough people interested in flying.

If the super committee....those 12 individuals that got picked to trim a couple trillion dollars from the budget...blows the deadline then the military gets gutted bigger then hell. Which means early retirement after 15 yrs, retention control point of 12 yrs for those that can't get promoted pass E5, bonus to reenlist goes out the window, and units getting deactivated. The Pentagon already stated that the draft MIGHT have to be implemented for 3-4 yrs tour...medical and aviation field is six yrs. Low enlisted soldiers is cheaper then keeping carreer soldiers. That...irks me.

Source please? I have not read this. I find it suspect particularly in regards to the aviation field = six year contract draft. I can't fully speak for Army Aviation, but I know their aviators are warrant officers, and Air Force/Navy have an 8-10 year commitment (after training is completed,so it works out to more than that) and you have to be a commissioned officer. You don't draft officers, so this makes no sense.

This scenario is unlikely (Reenlistment bonuses however probably would decrease) in the case of budget cuts. US military practice has always been personnel and officer retention when the budget is low. We sacrifice material before we sacrifice personnel as a standard practice. I see no reason for this to change. Material costs more in the short term than personnel anyway, and all government money handlers ever think about is the short term.

What you're talking about of is actually more of a European (namely French) military practice.

Which is why the US military apparatus is cutting some 100,000 personnel, officers included? Hell, some of my ROTC buddies are being told that they will be let go upon graduation, education paid for in full by the gov't because they have an excess of officers and they can't take on any more.The Navy has been throwing its excess officers into the flight training pipeline, knowing that they can eliminate hundreds of them through attrition at flight school, and they are talking additional cuts... and yet, the USAF, USN, and USMC insist on maintaining the F-35 program which may surpass the F-22 as the most expensive military aviation development effort in history. Most of the major back-breaking and largely unnecessary projects have been gutted or significantly scaled back, there really is very little we can do to not cut personnel in the face of additional budget cuts. In any case, we are heading towards Jimmy Carter style hollow force 2.0, fun times.

I mean honestly... I kill LOTS of people in video games. Tell me they are real people, I don't think it would change my perspective on it, because I'm conditioned to not care about them at this point.

I have a friend who just started flying Predators for the USAF (btw, the Army doesn't have Predators, they fly a derivative called the Grey Eagle), he thought he would be good to go, after witnessing people quite literally explode on what he considers to be one of the most vivid HD video displays he has ever seen, he understands why people get PTSD. Besides that, despite what the media would like you to believe, drones are not exactly the best platform for providing support to boots on the ground, manned aircraft such as the A-10 can accomplish the mission much more effectively. Due to ROE's and some political nonsense (he couldn't tell me exact details) he was once forced to basically watch as boots came under heavy fire by Taliban/AQ and he was not allowed to act in support. The unit suffered casualties while he watched and waited for some fast moving manned aircraft to come on station and put warheads on foreheads the old fashioned way. It WILL change your perspective on it, because it has changed the perspective of quite a few people I have met, and I'll bet they are 'harder' men then you (no offense).

There will never be a draft, it is an impossibility. The only way there would ever be one is if the US was invaded. Which will not happen, due to the advent of nuclear weapons the day of global wars between superpowers are over. The only wars that will be fought are proxy wars or wars where only one side (or none) is in possession of nuclear weapons.

I disagree, especially these days where basically everyone has acknowledged the impracticality of nuclear weaponry and has significantly downsized their arsenals, and the existing arsenals of many nations are somewhat irrelevant, either because the warheads are old and need to be replaced, the missiles are old and need to be replaced, etc. or there are anti-missile systems which can neutralize enough missiles to decrease the effectiveness of a mass strike.

Suggested reading:

http://armedservices.house.gov/index.cfm/files/serve?File_id=052aad71-19cb-4fbe-a1b5-389689d542d7

Too fat to fight? Join the Air Force.

Tyyr wrote:Too fat to fight? Join the Air Force.

That would have been hilarious 10 years ago, but last I checked the AF pt test was scored harder than anyone elses barring the Marine Corps. Also last I checked, the Air Force was the most aggressive branch in purging members from its ranks that could not meet weight/BMI standards. In fact, a friend of mine who got dropped from AFROTC for failing to meet weight standards is now serving as an E-3 in the Army, despite the fact that he has GAINED weight...

The AF is the only service that measures waist size as a part of the PFT regardless of hieght/wieght. Unless they changed that recently.

Nope, its still there

My AFROTC experience is ancient history now, but IIRC our test was more or less the same as the Army cadets. They generally seemed to be out doing more PT than we did, though. But then I enjoyed sleeping in on those days that they were out tromping around the woods at 6 am doing whatever it was they did. Chair Force FTW!

Yeah, the Army and Navy PT'd a lot harder than we did too, but we were expected to work out on our own time. PT was there only so we would be physically fit enough to pass with bare minimums, but that wasn't necessarily good enough to get a commission, let alone a rated slot.

The Army PT test, as I understand it, has changed entirely to a 'combat fitness assessment' which is more or less a timed obstacle course. It seems kind of complicated, and I'm not entirely sure on the specifics of it, but people I have spoken to said its not difficult at all.

The Navy test is the same as the Air Force, but they get 2 minutes for pushups and situps where the Air Force only has 1.

Marines of course have a 3 mile run (vs. 1.5 mile) and replace pushups with pullups.

The Air Force is more of a stickler on criminal offenses as a bar to get in, such as to many speeding tickets. Admittedly it was a few years ago that I was sharing a table with an AF recruiter but he essentially talked about how they know some people think of them as the blow off class of the services and between that and having a lot of technical positions they work on having harder standards to meet to weed out those thinking it is just a free ride.

chaos0xomega wrote:Yeah, the Army and Navy PT'd a lot harder than we did too, but we were expected to work out on our own time. PT was there only so we would be physically fit enough to pass with bare minimums, but that wasn't necessarily good enough to get a commission, let alone a rated slot.

The Army PT test, as I understand it, has changed entirely to a 'combat fitness assessment' which is more or less a timed obstacle course. It seems kind of complicated, and I'm not entirely sure on the specifics of it, but people I have spoken to said its not difficult at all.

The Navy test is the same as the Air Force, but they get 2 minutes for pushups and situps where the Air Force only has 1.

Marines of course have a 3 mile run (vs. 1.5 mile) and replace pushups with pullups.

Bwhaha!

I laugh at these childlike "fitness" tests!

In the RM you have to pass a Commando fitness test three times a year, involving a 12 mile speed march with webbing, water and weapon, a 30 foot rope climb in kit, then a 3 miler with the last mile and a half in under 10 minutes.

Also, you have to do it on a Friday after going out on the piss on the Thursday, and if anyone in the entire unit dares fail, they are endlessly mocked by the entire camp, before they are forced to re run it on the Monday dressed as a woman.

You are permitted to remove the high heels for the run however.

As my marine friends said, they accept me even though I am fat only because I try... that and I have the most defined calves between all of them. My Gastrocnemeus is sexy.

Source please? I have not read this. I find it suspect particularly in regards to the aviation field = six year contract draft. I can't fully speak for Army Aviation, but I know their aviators are warrant officers, and Air Force/Navy have an 8-10 year commitment (after training is completed,so it works out to more than that) and you have to be a commissioned officer. You don't draft officers, so this makes no sense.

Its fact. Talk to a recruiter and he/she say the same thing. Of those two fields its a standard six due to the amount of money thats poured in to train you. That's the enlisted side of the house. Warrants and Officers are retain a different way as you stated. So many years one have to commit for the training


edit 1

So basically. If the draft happens. Will you commit or protest/burn your draft card. If your in even though against your wishes will you perform or exceed the standards or just be lackluster.

They take fat people now. If you show up to Parris Island and can't pass the initial fitness test you go to Physical Conditioning Platoon until you can.

At least, that's how they did it when I enlisted. Not that I had to to to PCP, mind.

Jihadin wrote:

So basically. If the draft happens. Will you commit or protest/burn your draft card. If your in even though against your wishes will you perform or exceed the standards or just be lackluster.

For me? It would depend upon the circumstances. I love this country, but I hate the things that it does and people that run it. If we got attacked and the draft was required for soldiers for legitimate defense, I'm all in. Hell, I'd probably be volunteering in a case like that.

If it was so we could go poke a few holes in a desert somewhere? Not so much.

Jihadin wrote:

Source please? I have not read this. I find it suspect particularly in regards to the aviation field = six year contract draft. I can't fully speak for Army Aviation, but I know their aviators are warrant officers, and Air Force/Navy have an 8-10 year commitment (after training is completed,so it works out to more than that) and you have to be a commissioned officer. You don't draft officers, so this makes no sense.

Its fact. Talk to a recruiter and he/she say the same thing. Of those two fields its a standard six due to the amount of money thats poured in to train you. That's the enlisted side of the house. Warrants and Officers are retain a different way as you stated. So many years one have to commit for the training

I never realized how many stories I have revolving around recruiters but another one (Army this time I believe) I struck up a conversation with a bit ago was talking about how they increased the contracts of several jobs becuase people would just join to get the training and run as soon as they could. The main focus was on MP, but he said others were like that, but that MP went from a 2 or 3 year contract to a 6 year contract. A buddy of mine when he enlisted in the AF went in as an ordinance guy and that was a 6 year contract.

mattyrm wrote:

chaos0xomega wrote:Yeah, the Army and Navy PT'd a lot harder than we did too, but we were expected to work out on our own time. PT was there only so we would be physically fit enough to pass with bare minimums, but that wasn't necessarily good enough to get a commission, let alone a rated slot.

The Army PT test, as I understand it, has changed entirely to a 'combat fitness assessment' which is more or less a timed obstacle course. It seems kind of complicated, and I'm not entirely sure on the specifics of it, but people I have spoken to said its not difficult at all.

The Navy test is the same as the Air Force, but they get 2 minutes for pushups and situps where the Air Force only has 1.

Marines of course have a 3 mile run (vs. 1.5 mile) and replace pushups with pullups.

Bwhaha!

I laugh at these childlike "fitness" tests!

In the RM you have to pass a Commando fitness test three times a year, involving a 12 mile speed march with webbing, water and weapon, a 30 foot rope climb in kit, then a 3 miler with the last mile and a half in under 10 minutes.

Also, you have to do it on a Friday after going out on the piss on the Thursday, and if anyone in the entire unit dares fail, they are endlessly mocked by the entire camp, before they are forced to re run it on the Monday dressed as a woman.

You are permitted to remove the high heels for the run however.

You call that a fitness test? We do that for fun. 6 miles in 1 hour 15 min with 100 lbs on our back wearing tshirts, trousers and boots while its -10 (Fahrenheit) and snowing. Oh, and the route we marched was almost entirely coated in ice and mostly uphill. And we were just cadets at the time, imagine what we do on active duty

I'm entirely serious btw, I lost most of the toenails on both my big toes and the blisters wouldn't stop bleeding for like 2 days, but it hurt soooooo gooooooooooooooooddddddddd

Monster Rain wrote:They take fat people now. If you show up to Parris Island and can't pass the initial fitness test you go to Physical Conditioning Platoon until you can.

At least, that's how they did it when I enlisted. Not that I had to to to PCP, mind.

Things would chain under a draft though. If we're calling one, we need the shortest possible lead time from recruit to combat ready, you're adding months onto that lead time to train fatties when there is still a pretty large pool of fit able bodied youngsters that would otherwise suffice. If we're at the point where the roughly 20 million men (IIRC) fit for military service in this country are no longer cutting it, gak has hit the fan and we're most likely resorting to desperate actions that would make even Stalin blush.

hmm... seems all I need to do is to gain so much weight I can't move under my own power.

Can't make me exercise if I can't move!

Time to eat a steady diet of 3 buckets of KFC per meal.

I never realized how many stories I have revolving around recruiters but another one (Army this time I believe) I struck up a conversation with a bit ago was talking about how they increased the contracts of several jobs becuase people would just join to get the training and run as soon as they could. The main focus was on MP, but he said others were like that, but that MP went from a 2 or 3 year contract to a 6 year contract. A buddy of mine when he enlisted in the AF went in as an ordinance guy and that was a 6 year contract.

8 yrs as a BlackHawk crewchief. Mandatory of six yrs regardless if reclass or coming off the street. Thats fact not a story. So either a recruiter or reenlistment NCO will show the policies for that. Its true though on people getting the training and beating feet out out. Most will complete their contract while others leave early under Less than Honorable. Which later on will bite them when they apply for a federal contract job through a contract company.

4 yrs as a Forward Observer (2ID and 82nd)
8 Yrs Crewchief for Hawks (101st, 160th, & 82)
2 yrs Admin (Germany attach to the reserve component there)
6 yrs and some change as a Movement Coordinator (82nd and multiple Movement Control Teams)

Jihadin wrote:Thats fact not a story.

The story part is that I, a third party, am relaying to others an encounter I had and the information contained within. It in no way was meant to be construed as an old wives tale, but relating what I was told or had seen.

I also remember on the contract for the guy enlisting in the AF that under Civilian Equivalent it said in nice, big, bold letters "NO CIVILIAN EQUIVALENT". I always thought that was a nice touch.

Horst wrote:hmm... seems all I need to do is to gain so much weight I can't move under my own power.

Can't make me exercise if I can't move!

Time to eat a steady diet of 3 buckets of KFC per meal.

There's always room for an IED tester.

Horst wrote:hmm... seems all I need to do is to gain so much weight I can't move under my own power.

Can't make me exercise if I can't move!

Time to eat a steady diet of 3 buckets of KFC per meal.

Combat water survival training. I toss you in the pool in full kit. You swim and lose wieght, or die.

AustonT wrote:

Horst wrote:hmm... seems all I need to do is to gain so much weight I can't move under my own power.

Can't make me exercise if I can't move!

Time to eat a steady diet of 3 buckets of KFC per meal.

Combat water survival training. I toss you in the pool in full kit. You swim and lose wieght, or die.

Fat is more buoyant than muscle so chances are you could use him as an LSD should he get that large.

halonachos wrote:

AustonT wrote:

Horst wrote:hmm... seems all I need to do is to gain so much weight I can't move under my own power.

Can't make me exercise if I can't move!

Time to eat a steady diet of 3 buckets of KFC per meal.

Combat water survival training. I toss you in the pool in full kit. You swim and lose wieght, or die.

Fat is more buoyant than muscle so chances are you could use him as an LSD should he get that large.

Bolded important part. If he's that big his kit can include a fething anchor

You can add all the weight in the world to him and its possible that they could still float. First you have the fact that he's naturally buoyant then if you do any training in salt water it increases his buoyancy. If his surface area is also large enough then you could sit on him and float.

halonachos wrote:You can add all the weight in the world to him and its possible that they could still float. First you have the fact that he's naturally buoyant then if you do any training in salt water it increases his buoyancy. If his surface area is also large enough then you could sit on him and float.

How many salt water pools do you think the Army operates? And have you ever fallen or jumped into the water in your clothes, let alone fatigues, boots, webbing, and possibly a rubber duck if the training NCO put in the request. Swim is a relative term for "survive". Fat isn't so naturally buoyant that fat people can't drown. It's not magical.

What if he's fat... and a wizard?

I'd bet you'd regret throwing him then!

pretty large pool of fit able bodied youngsters that would otherwise suffice

I actually chuckle on this

Draft the fatties, if you dont and an unpopular war starts people leaving school will 'fast feed' their way out of service. Getting obese is relatively easy compared to how far people went to avoid service in Nam.

Besides:

I don't know but I've been told,
Micro' meals don't taste right cold.
I don't know but it's been said,
Try crackers with a low fat spread.

AustonT wrote:

halonachos wrote:You can add all the weight in the world to him and its possible that they could still float. First you have the fact that he's naturally buoyant then if you do any training in salt water it increases his buoyancy. If his surface area is also large enough then you could sit on him and float.

How many salt water pools do you think the Army operates? And have you ever fallen or jumped into the water in your clothes, let alone fatigues, boots, webbing, and possibly a rubber duck if the training NCO put in the request. Swim is a relative term for "survive". Fat isn't so naturally buoyant that fat people can't drown. It's not magical.

Yes I have, not in fatigues and boots but pants, shirt, and shoes I have. It was part of my water survival test when I was learning how to swim and then later practiced when I started to take sailing lessons. Of course with the sailing lessons we were given life jackets.

Jihadin wrote:

pretty large pool of fit able bodied youngsters that would otherwise suffice

I actually chuckle on this

Alright, well maybe not mentally, and they may not be good to go 'out of the box' but its plenty easier to build muscle and make pussies into professional killers than it is to make people lose weight.

I beg to differ on being a professional killer. Make it sound like I love going on deployments

chaos0xomega wrote:

Jihadin wrote:

pretty large pool of fit able bodied youngsters that would otherwise suffice

I actually chuckle on this

Alright, well maybe not mentally, and they may not be good to go 'out of the box' but its plenty easier to build muscle and make pussies into professional killers than it is to make people lose weight.

Eh...
Physicality isn't the only thing at issue. There's plent of guys who the service and them don't agree, like oil and water. These particular gaks are even more useless than a potentially obese troop. Potentially fixed by labotomy and assignment to the armor branch.

I'm overweight. I think I'd either enlist if we were invaded, or at
the very least, try to burn the fat off when I got drafted.

I'm all for national service.

this

DIDM wrote:this

Law and Order?

I think our obesity problem in America could be fixed with a two to four year mandatory service in the military after high school. As well as fixing a lot of other social problem in the youth and younger generation of a America. I used to be 400 pounds I'm now 235 here is the trick put down the soda and limit fast food trust me it works. fatttys don't need to be

AustonT wrote:

DIDM wrote:this

Law and Order?

UM, Full Metal Jacket, watch it


This is my rifle, this is my gun, one is for war and one is for fun

What's "Full Metal Jacket" about?
Is it a dramedy about young and unrequited love protected by a metal jacket?

AustonT wrote:What's "Full Metal Jacket" about?

It's about a girl in high school who's in love with a vampire.

The fat guy from law and order was in Twighlight?

DIDM wrote:

AustonT wrote:

DIDM wrote:this

Law and Order?

UM, Full Metal Jacket, watch it


This is my rifle, this is my gun, one is for war and one is for fun

"this is for fighting, this is for fun" get it right, jeez.

chaos0xomega wrote:

DIDM wrote:

AustonT wrote:

DIDM wrote:this

Law and Order?

UM, Full Metal Jacket, watch it


This is my rifle, this is my gun, one is for war and one is for fun

"this is for fighting, this is for fun" get it right, jeez.

Get outta here IM trolling this one.

If it came down to it I would enlist instead of being drafted. I already want to serve, but I want to do something medical so if I can get a position like that I will be more than willing to go at it. I readily accept the fact that while I could kill someone should I have to I would probably be one of the guys messed up because of it.

I dont think any real in depth analysis has truly been done as to the exact cause of PTSD, but I think its more a result of seeing your own buddies blown to gak rather than as a result of shooting someone that was trying to kill you first...

chaos0xomega wrote:I dont think any real in depth analysis has truly been done as to the exact cause of PTSD, but I think its more a result of seeing your own buddies blown to gak rather than as a result of shooting someone that was trying to kill you first...

Theoretically any kind of traumatic stress can cause PTSD, from killing someone to eating a really awful tasting food. The question isn't really about the source of the traumatic stress itself, that's basically irrelevant, the question is about how the person in question reacts to whatever the trauma may be.

Thats true I suppose. I remember talking to some special forces guys (I mean special forces, not spec ops) that had PTSD, they thought it was the best thing that ever happened to them. They were saying that once they figured out how to control it, they could dial it down when they were at home, but when they were on an op they could dial it up and it was like living in bullet time. To them it was like everything slowed down, their senses were all magnified, and they basically had 360 degree awareness down to the minutest detail.

Theoretically any kind of traumatic stress can cause PTSD, from killing someone to eating a really awful tasting food. The question isn't really about the source of the traumatic stress itself, that's basically irrelevant, the question is about how the person in question reacts to whatever the trauma may be.

Thats a whole new thread topic there