Hey guys sorry for the technical difficulties just got it fixed try the new link.

http://www.podcastrevolution.com/file/arther66/audio/Signals_from_the_frontline_episode3.mp3

brought to you by frontlinegaming.org

Ultimately an army with Army wide I2 and a 5+INV has a lot going for it. :/

Couldn't resist.

They are uber.

What gives me the creeps is the whole retcon background and the stories of the battles. They are nonsense.

-3 Imperial Fists companies have been completely wiped out
-Helbrecht had his right hand cut down and humiliated
-They really allied with the Blood Angels
-an Unknown number of men from the Flesh Tearers and Iron Hands were killed in a siege (at least a company each?)
-Korsarro Khan has been captured by one of the Necrons and then freed after being beated up badly.
-Ultramar is going to be invaded shortly and perhaps devastated.

This makes me wanna cry hard.

Ward's inability to do anything in a subtle manner strikes again! Everything's gotta be extra heroic or extra dire and involve all the major named characters as well.

But riddle me this - at any point in the Necron's history do we have a story of a Necron Lord killing an Avatar?

Can someone précis for those of us not able/willing/bothered to listen to an audio-file or for the similarly work impaired?

Bah it's down, mp3 won't play and the download via dropbox has been removed because of too much traffic..

Reecius wrote:https://www.frontlinegaming.org/2011/11/04/signals-from-the-frontline-episode-3-necron-codex-review/

Hot from the presses, unit by unit, ability by ability, for your listening pleasure!

Reece

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It takes a second to load as it is a big file. Be patient =)

I get a file not found?!

I'll be honest I like the intertwined fluff with the farseer, pathfinder and khan etc.

It didn't bother me the Necrons have beat everyone, there has to be backdrops for wars and campaigns.

The only gripe I think i have is minor and can be fixed, the glowing plastic rods dont make the army cohesive anymore. They look silly on just warriors and the odd old lord.

RandyMcStab wrote:Bah it's down, mp3 won't play and the download via dropbox has been removed because of too much traffic..

We might have to wait a few days before they come back up. If it does do at all.

lol too much traffic. Hopefully my copy will arrive soon, tempted to do a review of it myself.

Internal balance seems consistent. Wargear combos are going to be the make it or break it. But those will have to suit each players style and tactics. IE because I play X style doesn't mean Y unit is best, I just get more juice from the squeeze I'll natually think something is better. I think there is be a lot of hidden synergy plus the characteristics test or die wargear that's everywhere, but that I2 scares me.

There seem to be cryptecs to suit each build, but at a minimum Necrons do look to be the mech meta breaker. IMO

I'm reading the codex now. I haven't been so enthusiastic about GW in a long time. The fluff snippets are amazing.

KOS wrote:They are uber.

What gives me the creeps is the whole retcon background and the stories of the battles. They are nonsense.

-3 Imperial Fists companies have been completely wiped out
-Helbrecht had his right hand cut down and humiliated
-They really allied with the Blood Angels
-an Unknown number of men from the Flesh Tearers and Iron Hands were killed in a siege (at least a company each?)
-Korsarro Khan has been captured by one of the Necrons and then freed after being beated up badly.
-Ultramar is going to be invaded shortly and perhaps devastated.

This makes me wanna cry hard.

Ultramar threathened in a codex M.W was part of the "team" that wrote it? Who managed to sneak that in?

If we get everyone dies company-wise but a certain color of marine does not as general direction of the background in the cron dex,
no one should attempt to justify a certain game-designers work anymore.

Looking forward to receive my copy.

Any hints what happens to the other factions in this galaxy? Beaten up as bad ?

ITT: Butthurt about Speans getting there butt handed to them by Xenos.

Arsenic42 wrote:ITT: Butthurt about Speans getting there butt handed to them by Xenos.

Speans?

Who are they?

Speans = Space Marine

Bahahaha! Ok, Tomb Blades look really silly. Who ok'ed that concept? Honestly.

Triach Stalkers look awesome though. So do Canoptek Wraiths. Wow. The new Tomb Spyder design is also interesting. Doom Scythe... hmm... imagine the ship from Independence Day, only with crescent moon wings. I do not like the little pilot sitting there.

I hope Illuminator gets a model. Those mechanical legs would make great conversion fodder (especially for anyone who plays Soul Drinkers)

I hope the Tau codex alludes to Ultramar being wiped out

Hmm, bummer about the link! I actually am very interested in this codex, but mostly for the background... which I actually kind of like the changes to... although I'd be tempted to play the one "rogue" tomb world, that behaves just like all the necrons did in the old background

H.B.M.C. wrote:
I hope Illuminator gets a model. Those mechanical legs would make great conversion fodder (especially for anyone who plays Soul Drinkers)

Is that the heavy walker unit? I hope some codex art gets posted soon. I want to start a conversion.

Lord Scythican wrote:

H.B.M.C. wrote:
I hope Illuminator gets a model. Those mechanical legs would make great conversion fodder (especially for anyone who plays Soul Drinkers)

Is that the heavy walker unit? I hope some codex art gets posted soon. I want to start a conversion.

It was posted in the news and Rumors thread, fairly recently for the Triarch Stalker. Just Filter Kroothawks posts.

Dont have much time to see this, guess I'll wait for something a bit smaller

Lord Scythican wrote:

H.B.M.C. wrote:
I hope Illuminator gets a model. Those mechanical legs would make great conversion fodder (especially for anyone who plays Soul Drinkers)

Is that the heavy walker unit? I hope some codex art gets posted soon. I want to start a conversion.

No HBMC is referring to the special character

KOS wrote:-Helbrecht had his right hand cut down and humiliated

HELBRECHT? If I'm not mistaken, he's not even a primarch! I expected more from you Mr. Ward.

Wow...I really like the whole "Tomb Kings in Space" angle, as it makes the Necrons more interesting...

BUT, Ward needs to go. NOW. His Fluff stuff is just horrific. Absolutely. Horrific.

Meh, the Helbrect thing doesn't bother me as all that does is explain how he got his bionic right arm. The model actually has it at least.

1hadhq wrote:

KOS wrote:They are uber.

What gives me the creeps is the whole retcon background and the stories of the battles. They are nonsense.

-3 Imperial Fists companies have been completely wiped out
-Helbrecht had his right hand cut down and humiliated
-They really allied with the Blood Angels
-an Unknown number of men from the Flesh Tearers and Iron Hands were killed in a siege (at least a company each?)
-Korsarro Khan has been captured by one of the Necrons and then freed after being beated up badly.
-Ultramar is going to be invaded shortly and perhaps devastated.

This makes me wanna cry hard.

Ultramar threathened in a codex M.W was part of the "team" that wrote it? Who managed to sneak that in?

If we get everyone dies company-wise but a certain color of marine does not as general direction of the background in the cron dex,
no one should attempt to justify a certain game-designers work anymore.

Looking forward to receive my copy.

Any hints what happens to the other factions in this galaxy? Beaten up as bad ?

Pretty much yes, they are beaten up badly but not as the Marines. If I do remember well, Alaitoc is in danger while some Imperial planets have been subjugated and forced to become slaves of the Necrons. Space Marines are the worst case scenario.

For Ultramar, Necrons are going to expand and Marneus Calgar is preparing for an invasion coming North of his personal kingdom. The Imhotepk guy wants to expand and has to choose where between the sentient races of whom is surrounded with. Ultramar sooner or later will be attacked, at least this is what I've understood and since Necrons seems to be more efficient than Tyranids on destroying worlds, an assault could be devastating. If it's not, I apologize.

For sure, the only famous marines that have not suffered from Necrons in this background , are the Ultramarines. Almost every other chapter with a codex and with a wide fan base, has been beaten up.

If someone is interested about it, the Silver Skulls chapter has been wiped out by them.

KOS wrote:They are uber.

What gives me the creeps is the whole retcon background and the stories of the battles. They are nonsense.

-3 Imperial Fists companies have been completely wiped out
-Helbrecht had his right hand cut down and humiliated
-They really allied with the Blood Angels
-an Unknown number of men from the Flesh Tearers and Iron Hands were killed in a siege (at least a company each?)
-Korsarro Khan has been captured by one of the Necrons and then freed after being beated up badly.
-Ultramar is going to be invaded shortly and perhaps devastated.

This makes me wanna cry hard.

In Chapters Due they kill off just over four hundred Ultramarines and if you compare it to events like the Scythes of the Emperor (from what 3rd/4th edition dex) being consumed by the tyranids then its far from impossible to have xenos wipe out space marine chapters or do heavy damage to them. The crimson fists are another example.

Also the blood angels codex had the final note of how Baal is going to be invaded by the really off blood thirster and his demonic army.

Seems fairly in line with bigging up every army in its actual codex with glorious victories and last stands.

TBH I kind of like them putting more fluff about the special characters in other codex's as it fleshes out the character beyond their stat entry.

This is uber Reecius. Going to give it a listen while I wait for the Fedex guy today

EDIT: It appears you're too popular Reecius, getting an error that says you've got too much traffic.

KOS wrote:They are uber.

What gives me the creeps is the whole retcon background and the stories of the battles. They are nonsense.
...
-Helbrecht had his right hand cut down and humiliated
...

True... But then Helbrecht returned the favor in a space battle.....thoroughly whooping the Stormlord.... even to the point where the Stormlord had to retreat.

KOS wrote:If someone is interested about it, the Silver Skulls chapter has been wiped out by them.

From what I'm reading, they didn't get wiped... they got annihilated, and their chapter master killed, but they are rebuilding their forces...

I've been reading and messing around with the book the last two days while I build my new toys and I have to say I really, really like the codex. And I do think that there is potential to break mech over my knee. We'll see how it plays out though

We'll have the link fixed soon.

CaptKaruthors wrote:Meh, the Helbrect thing doesn't bother me as all that does is explain how he got his bionic right arm. The model actually has it at least.

I didn't hear this much whining when the swarmlord beat marneus calgar half to death. Does Helbrecht have some pocket fanbase I was unaware of?

ShumaGorath wrote:I didn't hear this much whining when the swarmlord beat marneus calgar half to death. Does Helbrecht have some pocket fanbase I was unaware of?

That's probably more to do with the Ultras having a (not so) pocket hatebase.

To the guys saying the Ultras never got beat up.. there are several novels and stories about them having their butts handed to them.

Damnos anyone? even in the book, Sicarius gets beat and it's obvious the marines lose like they do in the codex.

KOS wrote:If someone is interested about it, the Silver Skulls chapter has been wiped out by them.

Really? The whole chapter wiped out? Someone oughtta tell Sarah Cawkwell that Mat Ward killed her chapter!

I guess, if you aren't into just playing "historical" battles you'd probably just better play Ultramarines. I mean, how long until Ward decides to wipe out a 1st Founding Legion?

"Hmmm... who should be the victim of my next Billy Badass Chapter Master? Night Lords? They're pretty hard, right? Yeah, it'd be awesome if I had Chapter Master Vargo Uberslaught WIPED THEM FROM THE FACE OF THE GALAXY! WARD POWERS ACTIVATE!"

The tyranids wiped out like four or five chapters in their book and no one gave a damn. Space Marine chapters have a lot of churn, they get wiped out. That's why there are so many and why they keep making more.

IdentifyZero wrote:To the guys saying the Ultras never got beat up.. there are several novels and stories about them having their butts handed to them.

Damnos anyone? even in the book, Sicarius gets beat and it's obvious the marines lose like they do in the codex.

This.

I don't understand the whole 'Ultramarines are the golden children of GW'-mentality... they get their butts handed to them regularly in the books... sure they have 'amazing feats' and have done what would be deemed as incredible, but all marines are like that... They are all genetically modified and superhuman beings of immense skill and power. They were never meant to be anything less. In fact, it should prove just how nasty the baddies are when they trounce the marines.

Oh, on another note... Sanctuary 101 had nothing extra other than it was Imotech that did it...

Gah, too much traffic! That is so frustrating!

Damn it.

Anyone know a way around this? Haha, we stayed up all night getting that done.

Reecius wrote:Gah, too much traffic! That is so frustrating!

Damn it.

Anyone know a way around this? Haha, we stayed up all night getting that done.

Load it up to you tube.


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Revarien wrote:

IdentifyZero wrote:To the guys saying the Ultras never got beat up.. there are several novels and stories about them having their butts handed to them.

Damnos anyone? even in the book, Sicarius gets beat and it's obvious the marines lose like they do in the codex.

This.

I don't understand the whole 'Ultramarines are the golden children of GW'-mentality... they get their butts handed to them regularly in the books... sure they have 'amazing feats' and have done what would be deemed as incredible, but all marines are like that... They are all genetically modified and superhuman beings of immense skill and power. They were never meant to be anything less. In fact, it should prove just how nasty the baddies are when they trounce the marines.

Oh, on another note... Sanctuary 101 had nothing extra other than it was Imotech that did it...

It has a lot to do with how they're written in the ultramarines book. They're not just Marines, they're the best marines possible.

Abadabadoobaddon wrote:

KOS wrote:If someone is interested about it, the Silver Skulls chapter has been wiped out by them.

Really? The whole chapter wiped out? Someone oughtta tell Sarah Cawkwell that Mat Ward killed her chapter!

I guess, if you aren't into just playing "historical" battles you'd probably just better play Ultramarines. I mean, how long until Ward decides to wipe out a 1st Founding Legion?

"Hmmm... who should be the victim of my next Billy Badass Chapter Master? Night Lords? They're pretty hard, right? Yeah, it'd be awesome if I had Chapter Master Vargo Uberslaught WIPED THEM FROM THE FACE OF THE GALAXY! WARD POWERS ACTIVATE!"

As I said in a previous comment, they did not get wiped out. Pg 26 of the codex. '859.M41 The Traveller Has Come'.

*edit* added spoiler tag

Looks promising from what I've read so far. But, why did they bring back the Fabius Bile idea?

ShumaGorath wrote:
It has a lot to do with how they're written in the ultramarines book. They're not just Marines, they're the best marines possible.

But every codex makes their own army look amazing... with grandiose feats of legend... Every single one (no I don't count White Dwarf 'Codex').... The only one I can think of that bad mouth's itself is the Genestealer Cult 'Dex' in the Warjournal mag... it even says "why would you play this army? Good question... ".

People just latched onto it because of Ward's extravagant writing style... and granted, it is verbose and overly opulent, but it is no more crazy than a LOT of science fiction out there... though it has a lot of fantasy [writing] elements tossed in for good measure.

Personally, I'm not a big fan of his style, but I have to say that the Necron Codex (and I've read 90% of it), has been his best work yet...

Seems to be a theme of "doom is coming to the Imperium" in the Ward books. In the GK book it's stated that Justicar Thawn knows that "eventually Chaos will win." Also the mention of a GK prophecy or something where a "warrior who dies at the feet of the golden throne."

With all of this being taken into consideration, maybe, just maybe those whispers of the Imperium getting it's butt handed to it in 6th edition is true? Still doubtful that they would actually go that far in the fluff, but who knows.

Revarien wrote: As I said in a previous comment, they did not get wiped out. Pg 26 of the codex. '859.M41 The Traveller Has Come'.

Ha...nice Ghostbusters reference.

Revarien wrote:

ShumaGorath wrote:
It has a lot to do with how they're written in the ultramarines book. They're not just Marines, they're the best marines possible.

But every codex makes their own army look amazing... with grandiose feats of legend... Every single one (no I don't count White Dwarf 'Codex').... The only one I can think of that bad mouth's itself is the Genestealer Cult 'Dex' in the Warjournal mag... it even says "why would you play this army? Good question... ".

People just latched onto it because of Ward's extravagant writing style... and granted, it is verbose and overly opulent, but it is no more crazy than a LOT of science fiction out there... though it has a lot of fantasy [writing] elements tossed in for good measure.

Personally, I'm not a big fan of his style, but I have to say that the Necron Codex (and I've read 90% of it), has been his best work yet...

The space marine codex isn't the ultramarines codex. It encompasses every space marine chapter not based on one of the other founding legion books. The Ultramarines are described as superior to all of them and the dark angels and space wolves are described as non functioning near heretical sub marines. Basically everything thats not ultramarines in the book is dirt and yet ultramarines are but a fraction of the space marine chapters. It's badly written fanfluff.

$pider wrote:Seems to be a theme of "doom is coming to the Imperium" in the Ward books. In the GK book it's stated that Justicar Thawn knows that "eventually Chaos will win." Also the mention of a GK prophecy or something where a "warrior who dies at the feet of the golden throne."

With all of this being taken into consideration, maybe, just maybe those whispers of the Imperium getting it's butt handed to it in 6th edition is true? Still doubtful that they would actually go that far in the fluff, but who knows.

Remember that the rulebook's fluff states that the end is approaching for the Imperium of Man.

CadianXV wrote:

$pider wrote:Seems to be a theme of "doom is coming to the Imperium" in the Ward books. In the GK book it's stated that Justicar Thawn knows that "eventually Chaos will win." Also the mention of a GK prophecy or something where a "warrior who dies at the feet of the golden throne."

With all of this being taken into consideration, maybe, just maybe those whispers of the Imperium getting it's butt handed to it in 6th edition is true? Still doubtful that they would actually go that far in the fluff, but who knows.

Remember that the rulebook's fluff states that the end is approaching for the Imperium of Man.

True, but I don't recall seeing this much of it in the codex releases as well. I could be wrong though.

CadianXV wrote:

$pider wrote:Seems to be a theme of "doom is coming to the Imperium" in the Ward books. In the GK book it's stated that Justicar Thawn knows that "eventually Chaos will win." Also the mention of a GK prophecy or something where a "warrior who dies at the feet of the golden throne."

With all of this being taken into consideration, maybe, just maybe those whispers of the Imperium getting it's butt handed to it in 6th edition is true? Still doubtful that they would actually go that far in the fluff, but who knows.

Remember that the rulebook's fluff states that the end is approaching for Mankind.

Fixed it.
The full circle.....


Waiting for the necrons altered course begins to challenge my patience.
*Needs the damned book NOW. *
Good were the days when pre-order was an option and meant you'll have your copy at or slightly before release date.

sorry about the technical difficulties everyone heres the new link brought to you by frontlinegaming. http://www.podcastrevolution.com/viewpodcast.php?pid=2280

$pider wrote:

CadianXV wrote:

$pider wrote:Seems to be a theme of "doom is coming to the Imperium" in the Ward books. In the GK book it's stated that Justicar Thawn knows that "eventually Chaos will win." Also the mention of a GK prophecy or something where a "warrior who dies at the feet of the golden throne."

With all of this being taken into consideration, maybe, just maybe those whispers of the Imperium getting it's butt handed to it in 6th edition is true? Still doubtful that they would actually go that far in the fluff, but who knows.

Remember that the rulebook's fluff states that the end is approaching for the Imperium of Man.

True, but I don't recall seeing this much of it in the codex releases as well. I could be wrong though.

Excepting the lats necron codex of course.


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I don't understand why this isn't just up on youtube. It could of been up hours ago.

All I get is text, put it on youtube.

Abadabadoobaddon wrote:

KOS wrote:-Helbrecht had his right hand cut down and humiliated

HELBRECHT? If I'm not mistaken, he's not even a primarch! I expected more from you Mr. Ward.

No he is the chapter master (High Marshal) of the Black Templars.

This shall not stand I tell you!

Hey the page is refrencing this url until they get it fixed.

http://www.podcastrevolution.com/file/arther66/audio/Signals_from_the_frontline_episode3.mp3

Any sly winks to Gorkamorka in the fluff amongst all that Space Marine bashing?

(Gorkamorka was not so subtly set on a Necron Tomb World)

EDIT - The Imperial name for the planet was "Angelis"

In the past, a codex/rule book has stuck to inventing a new chapter/craftworld/sept/regiment/waaagh/hive fleet and then summarily destroying them. This was fine, as no one else's 'baby' was railroaded around by a rogue author.

Ward just railroaded not one, but apparently 5-8 'babies' from multiple authors. He didn't invent a new chapter, he didn't 'donate' a new company, he didn't do anything but decide that powerful force X needed to be killed by his GM character to make his GM character more awesome fluff wise.

You know how comic book people deal with these kinds of shenanigans? They just pretend the guy doesn't exist. His fluff isn't real fluff, his railroading of other people's kingdoms/factions never happened, he just writes rules.

In essence, his name is a black hole to me. His fluff disappears forever with the exception of some new retcon which beams out from the event horizon of douchebag-authordom to inform us all that yes, someone did give him a codex after the previous catastrophes.

Slackermagee wrote:In essence, his name is a black hole to me. His fluff disappears forever with the exception of some new retcon which beams out from the event horizon of douchebag-authordom to inform us all that yes, someone did give him a codex after the previous catastrophes.

Love the idea...just wish it would work for me. I'm a Flunny Nutter, and find the background of 40K my main reason for playing the game.

I don't mind amazing feats or legendary sacrifices. I don't mind Chapters being knocked down or out. I don't even mind every single named element in the 40K background being used and abused. After all, that is DRAMATIC!

What I have a problem with is just how over the top it is getting. Grey Knights being lost in the Warp, only to end up carving their initials into a Primarch's heart? Really? Necrons ripping off Space Marine body parts, and then letting them go? What?

I don't mind the End Times. I don't mind Ultramar falling. I don't mind Calgar getting torn in half. What I do mind is Matt Ward carving his initials into the heart of 40K! Just go away! Leave our favorite passtime alone! Go write for Halo or something!

Revarien wrote:

ShumaGorath wrote:
It has a lot to do with how they're written in the ultramarines book. They're not just Marines, they're the best marines possible.

But every codex makes their own army look amazing... with grandiose feats of legend... Every single one (no I don't count White Dwarf 'Codex').... The only one I can think of that bad mouth's itself is the Genestealer Cult 'Dex' in the Warjournal mag... it even says "why would you play this army? Good question... ".

The Tau Empire codex doesn't have grandiose feats of legend, or at least not compared to stuff like Draigo. The Tau get beaten back badly by the Imperium in their first conflict (though some of that is the Tau's view that lives are more important than ground so retreat is not shameful), until they eventually grind them to a halt with the Imperium forces over stretched and cut off from supply lines before allowing the IoM forces to withdraw unopposed rather than prolonging the war.

In fact I can't recall any events in that book which strike you as total fan service or ridiculous. Probably the most heroic is Commander Farsight's war against the Orks with a numerically inferior force but that was just excellent use of natural terrain and guerilla tactics along with the fact that he set up his base of operations in a natural fortress so when he was eventually surrounded he could hold off the Ork forces until his army could be evacuated and the Orks, weakened by constantly attacking his forces, could be wiped out by the other Tau forces.

how did you guys like the podcast?

Sigh... another Matt Ward fanfic. Gone is the Lovecraft inspired themes of the previous book with the emotionless minions of soul hungry gods. Instead we get Egyptian themed mustache twirlering mechana-douches.

While I haven't played 40k for years, still love the fluff and imagery. Matt Ward seems determined to put an end to that.

Sometimes I wonder if Matt Ward is deliberately doing this just to troll the 40k fanbase. He feasts on our rage and tears

Sigh... another Matt Ward fanfic. Gone is the Lovecraft inspired themes of the previous book with the emotionless minions of soul hungry gods. Instead we get Egyptian themed mustache twirlering mechana-douches.

Mustache twirly mechana-douches with fluff that doesn't directly contradict itself over 20 times in the book and that isn't dysfunctional at an incredibly basic level. The old necron fluff was awful, easily the worst in the game after the sisters.


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white925 wrote:how did you guys like the podcast?

The statement that the basic marine book was the best balanced and most well written book in the game made me want to throw my computer into the sun. It's a good review otherwise.

KOS wrote:

If someone is interested about it, the Silver Skulls chapter has been wiped out by them.

WHAT THE FRACK?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!

A Town Called Malus wrote:

Revarien wrote:

ShumaGorath wrote:
It has a lot to do with how they're written in the ultramarines book. They're not just Marines, they're the best marines possible.

But every codex makes their own army look amazing... with grandiose feats of legend... Every single one (no I don't count White Dwarf 'Codex').... The only one I can think of that bad mouth's itself is the Genestealer Cult 'Dex' in the Warjournal mag... it even says "why would you play this army? Good question... ".

The Tau Empire codex doesn't have grandiose feats of legend, or at least not compared to stuff like Draigo. The Tau get beaten back badly by the Imperium in their first conflict (though some of that is the Tau's view that lives are more important than ground so retreat is not shameful), until they eventually grind them to a halt with the Imperium forces over stretched and cut off from supply lines before allowing the IoM forces to withdraw unopposed rather than prolonging the war.

In fact I can't recall any events in that book which strike you as total fan service or ridiculous. Probably the most heroic is Commander Farsight's war against the Orks with a numerically inferior force but that was just excellent use of natural terrain and guerilla tactics along with the fact that he set up his base of operations in a natural fortress so when he was eventually surrounded he could hold off the Ork forces until his army could be evacuated and the Orks, weakened by constantly attacking his forces, could be wiped out by the other Tau forces.

The Tau Codecies were the most balanced in terms of fluff and power level of any army in the game. Its a shame that more books weren't written to emulate them as opposed to the power creep.

And how long has the latest Codex writing style been en vogue? It's just horrible! I picked up the GK codex a while ago, and hated that, but once I got the DE book I realized it was actually a trend. Why do I have to look in three-four different parts of the book just to find out everything that a particular unit is equipped with? What is the point of a comprehensive wargear section if I have to look in other sections of the book to find what I need? Come on, guys. I have ADD. I can't look in three areas to find out what Purifiers do, or how Wyches are equipped! I'll be 2 hrs looking because I got distracted by other cool stuff and still never found what I was first looking for.

Nagashek wrote:
And how long has the latest Codex writing style been en vogue? It's just horrible! I picked up the GK codex a while ago, and hated that, but once I got the DE book I realized it was actually a trend. Why do I have to look in three-four different parts of the book just to find out everything that a particular unit is equipped with? What is the point of a comprehensive wargear section if I have to look in other sections of the book to find what I need? Come on, guys. I have ADD. I can't look in three areas to find out what Purifiers do, or how Wyches are equipped! I'll be 2 hrs looking because I got distracted by other cool stuff and still never found what I was first looking for.

Y'know this is something I've heard often, and I don't completely agree. I think the current layout does make it harder to get a grip on new rules (because you have to flip back and forth to understand what the special rules are vs the points cost etc). But once you've read through it and know basically what x or y wargear/rules are, it is a lot easier to build an army list with all the points and short notes in the army list section at the back.

Nagashek wrote:And how long has the latest Codex writing style been en vogue? It's just horrible! I picked up the GK codex a while ago, and hated that, but once I got the DE book I realized it was actually a trend. Why do I have to look in three-four different parts of the book just to find out everything that a particular unit is equipped with?

For a while now. Since 4th Ed Eldar.

They had this great layout going with 4th Ed Marines, Black Templars, Tau, Tyranids and then 4th Ed Eldar comes along (with its incorrect page references) and made things needlessly complicated. It's been like that ever since. The Guard Codex is by far the worst offender, where most of its rules in the armoury just say 'look at page XX'. What's the point in having an armoury if most of the text in that armoury is telling you to look elsewhere in the book?

The Tau Codecies were the most balanced in terms of fluff and power level of any army in the game. Its a shame that more books weren't written to emulate them as opposed to the power creep.

I see you did not play a melee army in fourth edition.

ShumaGorath wrote:

The Tau Codecies were the most balanced in terms of fluff and power level of any army in the game. Its a shame that more books weren't written to emulate them as opposed to the power creep.

I see you did not play a melee army in fourth edition.

I shot a few of them. Heh. I built a Khornate Demon bomb army in 4e that worked wonders for the 2 months that I had it before Codex: Bland Marines came out. Then it was back to Tau and my DIY SM, who in 4e were freaking hammers.

HBMC you hit my problem exactly on the head. The new books are lousy with new options, so having to learn the new weapons, the new wargear, the new units, and then not having any of these items in a consistent location means it takes even longer to build a decent list. And while some at GW thinks it keeps things "fun" and "Fresh" because people aren't coming up with uber combos 20 minutes into having the new book in their hands, I know that it instead presents another barrier to the entry level player to stick with the game. Then again, I also know that there are many people who can not wrap their heads around Mathhammer and unit synergy unless it is spelled out for them (a majority, in fact) so that impediment (if intentional) is foolish anyway.

So, any hope to going back to the way it was before all the information used to outfit a single unit isn't spread out all over the book?

KOS wrote:If someone is interested about it, the Silver Skulls chapter has been wiped out by them.

The Silver Skulls were my first army!

H.B.M.C. wrote:

Nagashek wrote:And how long has the latest Codex writing style been en vogue? It's just horrible! I picked up the GK codex a while ago, and hated that, but once I got the DE book I realized it was actually a trend. Why do I have to look in three-four different parts of the book just to find out everything that a particular unit is equipped with?

For a while now. Since 4th Ed Eldar.

They had this great layout going with 4th Ed Marines, Black Templars, Tau, Tyranids and then 4th Ed Eldar comes along (with its incorrect page references) and made things needlessly complicated. It's been like that ever since. The Guard Codex is by far the worst offender, where most of its rules in the armoury just say 'look at page XX'. What's the point in having an armoury if most of the text in that armoury is telling you to look elsewhere in the book?

From a design perspective the current layout maximizes space, it allows them to get large fluff writeups and painted unit illustrations into every page and maximises the visual impact of a page flip. By comparison the anemic 4E books were pretty bland. The tyranid book for instance was nothing but concept art and single paragraph text blurbs. The codexes read much better from the standpoint of someone interested in the story and visual impact of the game, they're story and picture books first and manuals on in game armies second. They could certainly be formatted better, but it's not like the old layout was good either.

The 4E carnifex had like ten wargear items unique to it. Why the hell did I have to constantly search a multi page armoury up and down for references on equipment that one unit has? Why were psychic powers kept in their old section when the marines only had one psychic unit? If the number of special rules that exist now existed in late third and early fourth those armoury sections would be labyrinthine caverns of text and players would still have to constantly flip back and forth to get information.

Totally agree with Shuma. 4th edition armory and army list sections were just horrible streams of text. I hate looking for anything in the Tau book.

ShumaGorath wrote:
Mustache twirly mechana-douches with fluff that doesn't directly contradict itself over 20 times in the book and that isn't dysfunctional at an incredibly basic level. The old necron fluff was awful, easily the worst in the game after the sisters.

Actually it was a big improvement over the White Dwarf article that hatched Necrons. So far as the "Bad Space Mummy" angle they came up with for the new one, I don't see anything but a decline quality. I am still tempted to convert a Monster Cereal army to go with the new fluff.

Reecius, I just listened to your podcast, and while I agree with you for the most part, there are a few things I thought you guys may have missed in your review.

I'll go ahead and start with Wraiths

While Wraiths don't get the RP, they compensate this by coming with 2W and a Phase shifter for free. That's pretty big on it's own. Now, if you couple this with rending and it's a pretty nasty CC unit.

I think one of the biggest things wraiths have going for them, is that if they take Whipcoils and assault into something in cover, they will go first.(They don't take terrain tests at all), with 4 attacks on the charge, and wounding almost everything on a 2+ they are pretty brutal. I Just don't see many things surviving and assault with wraiths, so I really disagree with all the thumbs down on them.
Truly, I think the only thing that's a Ding against Wraiths, is that they compete against Scarabs.


Next is the Lycheguard. I agree with your review that you'll want to take the Hyperphase sword, and Dispersion shield. Now, you said before that these guys are going to get wrecked by Terminators, but this isn't the case. A few people (In the 200 page thread) Have already math hammered The Lycheguard vs TH/SS terminators, and they end up coming out pretty even. Usually the one that charges comes out on top. The main reason for this was that the 4++/5+RP comes out to the same as the 3++ SS. Add in the Rez orb, and they are the clear winners each time. I think these guys would serve mainly in a counter assault role, rather than something to go hunting on it's own.

As for Triarch Pratetorians, I agree that they suck. However, I didn't hear any mention in the podcast, that the Rods are also power weapons. This helps them a little, but they are still quite terrible.

The Tessarect labyrinth, isn't a random character. You pick any character or MC in base contact, and they need to roll equal to, or under their remaining wounds. Not bad.

Other than that, I think you guys are pretty spot on. I think a lot of things will require table testing, as we all know how things can look on Paper.

Sasori wrote:Reecius, I just listened to your podcast, and while I agree with you for the most part, there are a few things I thought you guys may have missed in your review.

I'll go ahead and start with Wraiths

While Wraiths don't get the RP, they compensate this by coming with 2W and a Phase shifter for free. That's pretty big on it's own. Now, if you couple this with rending and it's a pretty nasty CC unit.

I think one of the biggest things wraiths have going for them, is that if they take Whipcoils and assault into something in cover, they will go first.(They don't take terrain tests at all), with 4 attacks on the charge, and wounding almost everything on a 2+ they are pretty brutal. I Just don't see many things surviving and assault with wraiths, so I really disagree with all the thumbs down on them.
Truly, I think the only thing that's a Ding against Wraiths, is that they compete against Scarabs.


Next is the Lycheguard. I agree with your review that you'll want to take the Hyperphase sword, and Dispersion shield. Now, you said before that these guys are going to get wrecked by Terminators, but this isn't the case. A few people (In the 200 page thread) Have already math hammered The Lycheguard vs TH/SS terminators, and they end up coming out pretty even. Usually the one that charges comes out on top. The main reason for this was that the 4++/5+RP comes out to the same as the 3++ SS. Add in the Rez orb, and they are the clear winners each time. I think these guys would serve mainly in a counter assault role, rather than something to go hunting on it's own.

As for Triarch Pratetorians, I agree that they suck. However, I didn't hear any mention in the podcast, that the Rods are also power weapons. This helps them a little, but they are still quite terrible.

The Tessarect labyrinth, isn't a random character. You pick any character or MC in base contact, and they need to roll equal to, or under their remaining wounds. Not bad.

Other than that, I think you guys are pretty spot on. I think a lot of things will require table testing, as we all know how things can look on Paper.

I agree, 2 Str 6 rending attacks and a 3++ on 2 wound jump infantry is quite good. Totally disagreed with the review of Wraiths. I really wish those models were in the first wave.

@Sasori

Hi, thanks for the thoughtful input.

I am on the team with Reecius, Will and Frankie.

We have reversed our opinion on Wraiths. We think they are pretty awesome too, after more thought for all the reasons you stated. They are really brutal and that point about the whip is right on the money.

We think wraiths, scrabas, spiders (we were off about how good these guys are, too, when taken en masse) Doom Scythes are the stand outs in the book.

On the whole though, the book is pretty disappointing. Play testing will really tell, but we're seeing only 3 viable builds in there.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Lycheguard can work, but they are slow and can not take an assault vehicle to deliver them. The res orb is a good point, but most dedicated assault units will run through them. I think they need to be cheaper, honestly. Cool concept, but we'll see how they play out on the table top.

Brother-Captain Pancho wrote:@Sasori

Hi, thanks for the thoughtful input.

I am on the team with Reecius, Will and Frankie.

We have reversed our opinion on Wraiths. We think they are pretty awesome too, after more thought for all the reasons you stated. They are really brutal and that point about the whip is right on the money.

We think wraiths, scrabas, spiders (we were off about how good these guys are, too, when taken en masse) Doom Scythes are the stand outs in the book.

On the whole though, the book is pretty disappointing. Play testing will really tell, but we're seeing only 3 viable builds in there.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Lycheguard can work, but they are slow and can not take an assault vehicle to deliver them. The res orb is a good point, but most dedicated assault units will run through them. I think they need to be cheaper, honestly. Cool concept, but we'll see how they play out on the table top.

I really enjoyed your podcast. I think the audio quality could be a bit better, but the content was there and in the end that's what matters.

I think with time, we'll see some things work together, that didn't seem apparent at fist. If I Remember correctly, Long Fangs were not discovered right of the bat, either.

Overall, I think the Book is a Solid Middle tier, with Dark Eldar. I really don't think it's as uncompetitive as Tyranids.

While I'm not going to base any hopes on this, the book was written with 6th Edition in mind, and I think we'll see some changes when it rolls around. While GW's Track record isn't the best with books that "Were made for the next Edition" (Beastmen and Chaos Daemons come to mind)

Overall, I can't complain. I'm glad to have an update, and this is a codex I feel I can reliably win with quite often. I'm looking forward to more content from you guys, keep up the great work!

Dice Monkey wrote:

ShumaGorath wrote:
Mustache twirly mechana-douches with fluff that doesn't directly contradict itself over 20 times in the book and that isn't dysfunctional at an incredibly basic level. The old necron fluff was awful, easily the worst in the game after the sisters.

Actually it was a big improvement over the White Dwarf article that hatched Necrons. So far as the "Bad Space Mummy" angle they came up with for the new one, I don't see anything but a decline quality. I am still tempted to convert a Monster Cereal army to go with the new fluff.

Yes, because previously the faster then light super tech race that couldn't cure its cancer worshipping not gods who ate souls but couldnt interact with the warp and who prosecuted war by making human skeleton robots despite having the ability to control time is so much better then what they have now.

ShumaGorath wrote:
Yes, because previously the faster then light super tech race that couldn't cure its cancer worshipping not gods who ate souls but couldnt interact with the warp and who prosecuted war by making human skeleton robots despite having the ability to control time is so much better then what they have now.

Still 100,000% better than the new version take your pick, Tomb Kings in Space or Bad Space Mummies From Space Egypt.

Dice Monkey wrote:

ShumaGorath wrote:
Yes, because previously the faster then light super tech race that couldn't cure its cancer worshipping not gods who ate souls but couldnt interact with the warp and who prosecuted war by making human skeleton robots despite having the ability to control time is so much better then what they have now.

Still 100,000% better than the new version take your pick, Tomb Kings in Space or Bad Space Mummies From Space Egypt.

C'Tan ate life force, not souls.

"...A sacrifice of men, but the precious souls are not consumed, they are cast adrift. Many are the daemons that wait like carrion to feast on the leavings from this rich table."

Page 26 of the old codex, "Visions of the Sleeping God".

Have brefly looked at the army list, but liking what I see. Right now reading the fluff, and loving it. Giving me so many good ideas for my new necron Army, since I got rid of my old one a few months ago in preperation.

Task and Purpose wrote:Ultimately an army with Army wide I2 and a 5+INV has a lot going for it. :/

Fail

Monster Rain wrote:

Dice Monkey wrote:

ShumaGorath wrote:
Yes, because previously the faster then light super tech race that couldn't cure its cancer worshipping not gods who ate souls but couldnt interact with the warp and who prosecuted war by making human skeleton robots despite having the ability to control time is so much better then what they have now.

Still 100,000% better than the new version take your pick, Tomb Kings in Space or Bad Space Mummies From Space Egypt.

C'Tan ate life force, not souls.

"...A sacrifice of men, but the precious souls are not consumed, they are cast adrift. Many are the daemons that wait like carrion to feast on the leavings from this rich table."

Page 26 of the old codex, "Visions of the Sleeping God".

Yeah, and what exactly is life force, if it's not a soul? Thats never elaborated on, but life force and soul is used interchangeably by writers when referring to demonic issues, so who knows. Maybe everyone was a fething jedi before the C'tan showed up. This is actually one of the biggest holes in the fluff, since they abstractly state that life force is different from a warp presence, and yet if it exists at all that's blatantly untrue. The necrons were never tomb kings in space until now, they used to be the terminators from terminator flying around in half moons worshipping cthulu. They were an army of pop culture references worthy of the writers from blizzard.

ShumaGorath wrote:Yeah, and what exactly is life force, if it's not a soul?

"...the deliciously focused trickles of electromagnetism that leaked from the mortal bodies of the Necrontyr about them..." P. 25, The C'Tan Incarnate

There. That's what the C'Tan craved from The Living, and we've already established that they don't eat the souls. I rest my case, whether you choose to accept it is another matter entirely. Horses to water and all that.

Monster Rain wrote:

ShumaGorath wrote:Yeah, and what exactly is life force, if it's not a soul?

"...the deliciously focused trickles of electromagnetism that leaked from the mortal bodies of the Necrontyr about them..." P. 25, The C'Tan Incarnate

There. That's what the C'Tan craved from The Living, and we've already established that they don't eat the souls. I rest my case, whether you choose to accept it is another matter entirely. Horses to water and all that.

Why couldn't a race that can control time and space just manufacture that electromagnetism? We can do it and we can barely control monster trucks.

Personally I don't think that Spyders are as good as some have claimed. They can certainly be a tough nut to crack, but they compete with Annihilation Barges, which are probably one of the best units in the game. Similarly, Doom Scythes are very lethal but very vulnerable, and are quite bad at actually being transports thanks to their horrible special rules regarding what happens when they are destroyed. I can see people taking Warriors or Immortals on foot and adding Doom Scythes as gunships, but using them as actual transports is extremely risky.

ShumaGorath wrote:
Why couldn't a race that can control time and space just manufacture that electromagnetism? We can do it and we can barely control monster trucks.

What do you think is more delicious fried turkey wrapped in bacon or tofurkey wrapped in beggen strips?

Hey there Reece!

Thanks for putting this review together. It was an enjoyable listen. Mostly some good observations. You are too nice to some of the units, but fortunately Frankie is there to say he didn't like it. haha

I want to jump in and squash some stuff that you guys might have misinterpreted into being too good. The Staff of the Destroyer and the Death Ray don't hit every model in the unit. The unit hit by the line takes a number of hits equal to the number of models under the line. Its a really fancy way of saying the models hit by the line are hit, but those models don't have to be the ones wounds are allocated to. So a non-sniping jaws...

Imotek is good, but it isn't 'night fight all game'

You do have a 100% night fight turn 1, a 67% night fight on turn 2. But it drops significantly from there. You'll only have a turn 3 night fight in 33% of your games, and only 11% of your games will have 4 turns of night fighting.

Assuming you are facing a typical IG parking lot, that will be 11-12 chances per turn. Lets call it two lightning strikes per turn.

So if we are only counting on two turns of night fight, then we'd get that twice. Each turn, two random chimeras take d6 strength 8 side armor hits. Thats like two long fang units for the first two turns of the game, but they are forced to shoot at random targets. Since he costs a long fang unit more than a regular overlord, I think that it is very good (and nearly auto-include) but it isn't game breaking. Sure you might get night fight all game long. But you might face a KP denial ork army, or another necron army that is all foot and monoliths.

It is my interpretation that you can only take the cryptek discipline options once per army. For example, you can have 5 harbingers of destruction (each with a lance), but only one solar pulse and one gaze of flame.


The coolest feature of necrons, and unfortunately it pretty much revolves around a special character for top end competitive play, is to run 30 scarabs, and no real dedicated anti-tank shooting. Use a combination of night fight and stealth to get as many scarabs as you can onto the chimera/razorback/rhino parking lot, entropic the HELL out of them, and then eternity gate your immortal units out in the end game and blow the low armor vehicles to smithereens. Particle whip any survivors. The playtesting I just got back from doing has scarabs at the top end of tank kill. They are really the unit of the dex, at least until the edition changes.

I've faced a C'tan... he had worldscape and gaze of death... meh. Like you guys were kind of getting at, he is marginally survivable, marginally effective in CC, and marginally useful as an army wide combo. But as slow as ever, I guess being a masochistic tyranid player for months longer than most people could even stand it has me just absolutely loathing MCs that don't have fleet.

I like monoliths, the price point is right, the door is good, and you can use the friendly versin of the door and particle whip while moving 6. Thts plenty of transport capacity. I like a unit of spiders, its really pretty simple, spiders can stay with scarabs for two movement phases before the scarabs charge, that means, no matter what, that each spider poops out two scarab bases, since scarab bases are the best thing in that book, I count that as a 30 point decrease in cost for the spiders, would you pay 20 points per spider? Hell, I might even pay the extra points per spider to make them able to fix monoliths. Since thats where they are going to be hanging out. The particle whip can be weapon destroyed now, and so I think that might be something I'd want for the end game. I'll want them moving too.

Troops I don't really have a decision yet, just like you guys... but I think immortals synergize better in the scarab lists, we will really have to see how low you can reliably get razorback and chimera armor down before they flamer away all your scarabs, but my hunch is that that extra point of strength will be crucial, also, until we get a bigger disembarkation move, it will be tough to get more than 12-13 warriors out of the portal on those aggressive turns. And reanimation protocols doesn't really kick in for warriors unless they are 15+ strong. My IG were very consistenly taking down 10 strong units in cover in one phase. You need more bodies or power armor.

Elites has me pretty stumped, and you guys were about the same, sort of defaulting to C'tan. I think the stalker is probably the best bet. You are going to need a few key long range anti-tanks for if nightfight drops off early or they manage to trash your 36 scarabs before you did enough work on their parking lot. I don't think they are super awesome... but I think a pair of them might be nice. Twin-link your immortal shooting and take a couple stabs at a vehicle, and also packing that heavy flamer for the occasional annoying genestealer unit that you don't want actually winning a combat for once. The reality is, I don't think necrons need the elite slot. What I want (at least after looking for one day and playing one game) is already expensive enough.

I know you are hesistant to put them above middle tier, especially with just a day to look at it... but I'm a little bit afraid of this with IG.

imotek
4x destruction crypteks, one solar pulse

8x immortals
8x immortals
9x immortals
9x immortals

10x scarabs
10x scarabs
10x scarabs

monolith
monolith
3x spiders with fabricator claws

That is a bigger list (2,000)... but its got a really high likelihood of rocking 3 turns of night fight, its got 4 BS4 missiles and two battlecannons to shoot at anything that uses a searchlight, and each unit of scarabs reduces combat speed vehicle armor by 12-13 on the charge. If you spread that across two vehicles per, then you are looking at six chimeras per turn going down to armor 6 front. Strength 5 gauss starts looking pretty scary when it is penning on a 2+.

Flamers and multi-lasers will make sure that the scarabs probably won't be repeating that trick.... but that alpha hit should really level the playing field in terms of effective anti-tank. I know, I know... that list gets wrecked hard by somoene who really wants to play a close combat game.... but read the second paragraph on page 64. Matt Ward basically says, sorry guys, you are just going to get rolled by close combat.

Also, it is pretty irrelevant, but the necron army does have some pretty over the top firepower on an anti-infantry level. When Mat said that they were going to be the shootiest army, he might actually be half right. if the rumored 6th edition mission is true, and we'll all be required to be disembarking from transports to claim progressive scoring objectives as early as turn 2. Then true anti-infantry shooting might have some added relevance.

In the alternate universe wherre anti-infantry shooting matters, the annihilation barge has a stupid amount of shots for its points cost, as do tomb blades. Necron destroyers have more AP3 shooting per point than anything I can really think of (I think even cheaper than thousand sons per shot), the lite slot is pretty void in shooting, but then we have very inexpesnive strength 5 rapid fire on every immortal in troops. If marines are going to be seen on foot with any regularity at the competitive level in the next year or so, between staff of light, particle whip and gauss cannons...necrons are going to seema lot shootier. Dark eldar probably take the cake for pure unadulterated anti-infantry shooting... but AP3 shooting probably goes to necrons (they can only get so many dissies)

Thanks again guys for taking the time. It was an entertaining and informative listen.

CT GAMER wrote:

Task and Purpose wrote:Ultimately an army with Army wide I2 and a 5+INV has a lot going for it. :/

Fail

I think it would be more helpful if you illustrate your reasoning with examples.

Kilkrazy wrote:

CT GAMER wrote:

Task and Purpose wrote:Ultimately an army with Army wide I2 and a 5+INV has a lot going for it. :/

Fail

I think it would be more helpful if you illustrate your reasoning with examples.

The Necrons are far more than an I2 army with a 5+ invul. One only has to read the codex or even the discussions of it here to know that.

I'm not going to bother to relist the abundance of info and analysis that has already been discussed and listed in detail to someone who is obviously looking to spout one-liners with sad faces after them...

Kilkrazy wrote:

CT GAMER wrote:

Task and Purpose wrote:Ultimately an army with Army wide I2 and a 5+INV has a lot going for it. :/

Fail

I think it would be more helpful if you illustrate your reasoning with examples.

Does epic fail work better...?


Honestly, my friends been playing crons since 4th ed, im happy for him. I don't really do 40k anymore, but if he can beat his other friend who thinks " IG chimera/vendetta melta vets" is the coolest list out there.... then in happy for him. I really hope he wipes the floor with Garrets Ig =o]

I took a good look through the Codex today and generally agree with the comments here.

The new direction and variability in the army list, especially the role of Crypteks and some of the other new units bode well for their being a range of diverse army builds, particularly with the potential to counter Mech Spam, which I really like.

But once again, the fluff is just over the top bad. I think one of the fundamental issues with the Necrons has always been their lack of good motivation. Tyranids = Hungry, Chaos = Revenge and Corruption, etc. The Necrons now have a bit more motivation, but it comes across as really cheesy sci-fi.

Dice Monkey wrote:

ShumaGorath wrote:
Why couldn't a race that can control time and space just manufacture that electromagnetism? We can do it and we can barely control monster trucks.

What do you think is more delicious fried turkey wrapped in bacon or tofurkey wrapped in beggen strips?

As a god that can make anything i want to the perfect degree? The first one. Which I don't need people for because I'm a god that can control space and time and I have mastered light speed technology and the ability to turn living things into robots.

Alot of people are all sad that Necrons aren't super broken or look very mediocre on the statlines but I'll say this: 9 times out of 10 you won't see the same list twice* which is about the best thing for Necrons since way back in 2002.

*= barring the few who can do nothing better than to take internet spam lists that have "I win" buttons strapped on them but hey, sacrifice imagination if winning toy soldiers means that much to you.

Kurgash wrote:Alot of people are all sad that Necrons aren't super broken or look very mediocre on the statlines but I'll say this: 9 times out of 10 you won't see the same list twice* which is about the best thing for Necrons since way back in 2002.

*= barring the few who can do nothing better than to take internet spam lists that have "I win" buttons strapped on them but hey, sacrifice imagination if winning toy soldiers means that much to you.

Easy on the competitive player-hating...

The reason players tend to make the same choices in competitive tourney lists, isn't because they are copying some all powerful internet mega-gamer. It is because they are coming to the same conclusion about which units are the most competitive in the tournament metagame, independently of each other.

However, I do concur on the main point of your post... Suddenly there is theme... and plenty of it! I haven't even finished reading each units fluff, and haven't even touched the overall army fluff, but already there are different groupings of models and different 'dynasty personalities'

The canoptek/cryptek family of units are all good, and full of character

The flyers and jetbikes might not exist as models yet, but sound like a great alternative to 'slow and plodding'. Flyer transports that can hold jump infantry, fast skimmer command barges, flyer heavies and jetbike fast attack sounds like a huge change of pace.

Monstrous creatures in both elite and in heavy support? Backing up a wall of scarabs from fast attack... that seems like another completely different vibe.

The old classic "zombie walk" monoliths, warriors, and immortals is still a functional list too. And there are a lot more models on the table to look at.

I'd even love to see an actual "their number is legion" type list with 80 or so warriors and 4 ghost arks. Sprinkle some res orbs and harbingers of transmogrification around and just see how truly annoying they could be. (use the ghost arks to block charge lanes while keeping your LoS open)

I think a potential necron collector has plenty to do, both competitively and now, thematically. I also think that somehow they managed to not screw over veteran necron collectors. Immortals and warriors are great, scarabs are fantastic (and the veteran necron players will have more than the new guys) the monolith is still quite solid. And even though pariahs were retconned out, they still make excellent necron lord models (or could be lychguard as well) Destroyers lost a little bit of fun, switching to a less fun unit type, and losing a lot of range and power on their gun, but they still seem pretty fun to play... and now have this fun new fluff. They even figured out how the veteran players can hang on to their C'tan models. I was pretty certain that they were going to be relegated to an apocalypse datasheet.

Pretty good job in my opinion.

Kurgash wrote:
*= barring the few who can do nothing better than to take internet spam lists that have "I win" buttons strapped on them but hey, sacrifice imagination if winning toy soldiers means that much to you.

Amen to that!

My favorite part of all the talk about a new Codex and how it fits into the power hierarchy of the meta is this: the best way to screw with the meta is to screw with the meta! Taking a fun, reasonably well-thought out army to a tournament and watching people squirm as your "useless" units jump up and down on their precious "this list won 'Ard Boyz last month" units is borderline criminal kind of fun .

I for one am happy to see the chance for some variety in a Necron book after rocking one troop choice for close to ten years .

@Shep

Buddy, where you been?!

Good to hear form you, we missed you at Comikaze.

I agree with a lot of what you have said. We shot that review off the cuff just to get the information out fast.

The death ray, you are right, we missread it in our haste. It is still an amazing tank killer, though.

Imotekh is worth his points for the 4+ seize, alone. IN the right list, that is brutal. His night fight and lightening are just nice benefits.

We are thinking that 30 scarabs, 9 Canoptek spiders will be a killer list. Imotekh keeps them concealed as they advance and the Spiders poop out nearly a full squad a turn. That wrecks mech, and with the amount of attacks scarabs have, they still have a fighting chance against a lot of units through weight of numbers.

Why take 3 Squads? Why not take 2 squads of Wraiths for some real punch in CC and by the top of turn 2 have a single 28 base swarm that's generally in charge range.

Reecius wrote:We are thinking that 30 scarabs, 9 Canoptek spiders will be a killer list.

Hulksmash wrote:Why take 3 Squads? Why not take 2 squads of Wraiths for some real punch in CC and by the top of turn 2 have a single 28 base swarm that's generally in charge range.

I've been drooling about this idea since I got the Codex...now where on earth do I find that many Scarabs... (Or Wraiths for that matter!)

Haha. I know where you can get 66 scarabs...

Buy 22 boxes of necron warriors!

Honestly, forge world needs to make a scarab base chock full of scarabs like they did for ripper swarms.

Barring that, I actually think it is acceptable to use one of those green stuff moulds they sell and press your own bases. Usually I am an IP infringement nazi and would frown on doing something like that, but the unit is so good and necessary, and acquiring them en masse is nearly impossible, so I wouldn't hate on anyone who pressed green stuff moulds of scarab bases. At least until GW figures out that we need them. Like maybe they put one scarab base per tomb blade model.

Reece, I took one of those "hobby breaks" that we all need from time to time. I'm emerging from my stasis-tomb now that the reanimation protocols have finished repairing my social life.

I've got a couple fully painted tourney lists just sitting in my game room (ig and grey knights). Maybe I'll go to a tourney that you and the boys are going to. But really I don't think I'll be excited about 40k again until summer.

We just played our first game with Crons, 10 scarabs and 9 Spiders. Wow. Those combined with Imotek is pretty brutal. We're playing game 2 now against IG.

We were off about crons. It will be incredibly easy to make a very, very BAD list, but a good player can make a very good list (it appears so far anyway) pretty easily. They do have weaknesses though, which is good.

Check out the podcast for more info. We'll have a video bat rep up soon.

https://www.frontlinegaming.org/2011/11/08/signals-from-the-frontline-episode-4/

Reecius wrote:We just played our first game with Crons, 10 scarabs and 9 Spiders. Wow. Those combined with Imotek is pretty brutal. We're playing game 2 now against IG.

We were off about crons. It will be incredibly easy to make a very, very BAD list, but a good player can make a very good list (it appears so far anyway) pretty easily. They do have weaknesses though, which is good.

Check out the podcast for more info. We'll have a video bat rep up soon.

https://www.frontlinegaming.org/2011/11/08/signals-from-the-frontline-episode-4/

Like it's easy to get wrapped up in the shiny good toys to lose sight of things? Just how is it easy to make a bad Necron list?

Yeah, exactly, you said it.

I think this book will take a lot of synergy and intelligent list design to make it work. Like Dark Eldar, in a way. With an army largely on foot, they are very vulnerable.

With a good list that has units that build on each other, it's on.

Tomb Blades are my favorite behind scarabs so far.

In our test games, the army needs Imotek or several Crypteks with Solar Pulses to work. Imotek is so damn good.

In the test game I played against a necron playing friend he was having some good luck with a cryptek squad spamming eldritch lances. At (the cost of a basic tactical squad) it was putting out 5 demi lascanon shots a turn and it's easy to protect it from enemy heavy weapons if you use a monolith as LOS blocking terrain. Basic destroyers are also pretty mean with their ability to do severe damage to an MEQ squad at range while hiding behind monoliths themselves.

=/ damn. I was hoping to run some Lychguard hosts behind at least 60+ warriors alongside scarabs and Wraiths. So much for flashy units holding their own.

Tastey Taste was just in our store buying some Lychguard. He thinks they will kick ass.

We'll see. I think they have too many shortcomings, personally, but I could be wrong. We're coming around on the Necrons. Our first impression was bad, but our test games is showing them to be pretty fun, actually.


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https://www.frontlinegaming.org/2011/11/08/signals-from-the-frontline-episode-4/

There's some discussion about our second work through of the book.

I really think they are more of a 2 on the 1-2 punch. Throw scarabs or coiled Wraiths at a target and then follow up with the Lychguard to ensure the unit's full destruction. It might seem overkill but really, it's better to ensure a target's demise and even better reduce it to minimal efficiency so you stay locked in combat and not get shot.

I'm not sure convinced of the power of massed scarabs. Swarms big vulnerability has always been instakill firepower and the scatter laser is a pretty integral component of most guard armies. A cruising speed vet drop with some flamers will likewise cut a squad down pretty quickly as will a double hammerhanded GK unit or an incinerator template.

@kurgash
I hope they are good. The models are brilliant.

@shumagorath
The scarabs have stealth, which makes them very resilient. Hellhounds and weapons that ignore cover and can double them out will be the equalizer, but night fight really does have a big impact on this.

I think a mix of units will help to overcome this, which is great.

Templates and such will be the equalizer for sure, but that means forcing your opponent to come 18" out to you as really, you always want your scarabs at the minimum effort for charge range, without fleet rolls taken into factor.

That means at best a jump infantry squad with flamers or a Blood Angel/Vanilla Redeemer going full up 12" and burning maybe 2 bases. After that, it's all a factor of bait/switch.

Can't wait to try this army out as a good chunk of all my old toys suddenly became good. Wraiths Scarabs and Spyders OH MY!

Reecius wrote:@kurgash
I hope they are good. The models are brilliant.

@shumagorath
The scarabs have stealth, which makes them very resilient. Hellhounds and weapons that ignore cover and can double them out will be the equalizer, but night fight really does have a big impact on this.

I think a mix of units will help to overcome this, which is great.

Why is nightfight the equalizer against templates? The flamer is only 8 inches long.

ShumaGorath wrote:
and yet ultramarines are but a fraction of the space marine chapters. It's badly written fanfluff.

Mmmmmm, no. Remeber, many many chapters are founded from the ultramarines geneseed. So in terms of legecy they're many out there.

ShumaGorath wrote:

Reecius wrote:@kurgash
I hope they are good. The models are brilliant.

@shumagorath
The scarabs have stealth, which makes them very resilient. Hellhounds and weapons that ignore cover and can double them out will be the equalizer, but night fight really does have a big impact on this.

I think a mix of units will help to overcome this, which is great.

Why is nightfight the equalizer against templates? The flamer is only 8 inches long.

He might be talking about blast templates.

Kurgash wrote:

ShumaGorath wrote:

Reecius wrote:@kurgash
I hope they are good. The models are brilliant.

@shumagorath
The scarabs have stealth, which makes them very resilient. Hellhounds and weapons that ignore cover and can double them out will be the equalizer, but night fight really does have a big impact on this.

I think a mix of units will help to overcome this, which is great.

Why is nightfight the equalizer against templates? The flamer is only 8 inches long.

He might be talking about blast templates.

It'll help with that for sure, though a single leman russ plasmatank can kill an entire scarab squad in one shot. The best weapons for killing the scarab squads are carried by the scarab squads primary target so it'll be interesting to see how necron players guard them during the turn of obvious vulnerability when they're inside the average night fight range but outside their average charge.

ShumaGorath wrote:It'll help with that for sure, though a single leman russ plasmatank can kill an entire scarab squad in one shot. The best weapons for killing the scarab squads are carried by the scarab squads primary target so it'll be interesting to see how necron players guard them during the turn of obvious vulnerability when they're inside the average night fight range but outside their average charge.

It shouldn't be too hard to hide Scarabs in cover most times. A well-placed Spyder screen will give them all a healthy 3+ cover save...should be enough to survive a round of template shooting, especially if the Spyders have been pumping extra bases out every turn previous.

whigwam wrote:

ShumaGorath wrote:It'll help with that for sure, though a single leman russ plasmatank can kill an entire scarab squad in one shot. The best weapons for killing the scarab squads are carried by the scarab squads primary target so it'll be interesting to see how necron players guard them during the turn of obvious vulnerability when they're inside the average night fight range but outside their average charge.

It shouldn't be too hard to hide Scarabs in cover most times. A well-placed Spyder screen will give them all a healthy 3+ cover save...should be enough to survive a round of template shooting, especially if the Spyders have been pumping extra bases out every turn previous.

Can the spiders run and pump out scarabs at the same time?

ShumaGorath wrote:

whigwam wrote:

ShumaGorath wrote:It'll help with that for sure, though a single leman russ plasmatank can kill an entire scarab squad in one shot. The best weapons for killing the scarab squads are carried by the scarab squads primary target so it'll be interesting to see how necron players guard them during the turn of obvious vulnerability when they're inside the average night fight range but outside their average charge.

It shouldn't be too hard to hide Scarabs in cover most times. A well-placed Spyder screen will give them all a healthy 3+ cover save...should be enough to survive a round of template shooting, especially if the Spyders have been pumping extra bases out every turn previous.

Can the spiders run and pump out scarabs at the same time?

Producing scarabs is done at the beginning of the Movement phase, so I don't see any reason why they couldn't produce scarabs, and run.

Reecius, I just got done listening to #4. Glad to see that you are seeing the Necrons in a bit more of a positive light. I'm looking forward hearing about some more test games between you all.

Also, It seems like there was a lot more distortion in this podcast. I think it would make the Podcast a lot better, if you could improve audio quality. The content is defiantly there, it's just the audio quality that's lacking.

I'm sure they can, if what I heard is right they pump out scarabs in the movement phase and then can run in shooting.

Yes, I think so. They create bases at the beginning of the movement phase. No codex handy, but I think the only restriction on creating a base is that the Spyder must not be engaged in CC.

:gasp: does that mean they can do it when they've gone to ground too!? D:

I appreciate how Ward took the time to give every unit an absurd amount of special rules. And a million different kinds of tokens everywhere. I look forward to every game against the Necrons taking upwards of 4 hours.

Fafnir wrote:I appreciate how Ward took the time to give every unit an absurd amount of special rules. And a million different kinds of tokens everywhere. I look forward to every game against the Necrons taking upwards of 4 hours.

Your right, he should have just kept everything the same from the last Codex. It's not like Necrons needed some Unique rules, or Diversity, or anything like that.

Sasori wrote:

Fafnir wrote:I appreciate how Ward took the time to give every unit an absurd amount of special rules. And a million different kinds of tokens everywhere. I look forward to every game against the Necrons taking upwards of 4 hours.

Your right, he should have just kept everything the same from the last Codex. It's not like Necrons needed some Unique rules, or Diversity, or anything like that.

In fairness he has created problem mechanics in this book. How do you select a model 'at random' in your army? There is no rule based methodology for this and it's going to cause serious issues in tournaments.

ShumaGorath wrote:

Sasori wrote:

Fafnir wrote:I appreciate how Ward took the time to give every unit an absurd amount of special rules. And a million different kinds of tokens everywhere. I look forward to every game against the Necrons taking upwards of 4 hours.

Your right, he should have just kept everything the same from the last Codex. It's not like Necrons needed some Unique rules, or Diversity, or anything like that.

In fairness he has created problem mechanics in this book. How do you select a model 'at random' in your army? There is no rule based methodology for this and it's going to cause serious issues in tournaments.

I'll agree with that. I'm not quite sure how I would go about doing that either. My main gripe is that, the Army got a huge Overhaul, practically from the ground up, and people are complaining about a lot unique rules for the units. I would think that would be expected in this case. The book is very well organized, with several charts and references to page numbers in the back. Even if there is a question on a rule, it should take seconds to find it.

I'm curious to see if this is more of an army book for 6th edition and wether GW are taking their queue from 8th ed Warhammer by having loads of models and plenty of big vehicles that look cool but can be easily killed/destroyed. the death ray looks a bit fiddly for my tastes, I prefer the Jaws of the World Wolf.

@Sasori
Yeah, we're still working out the technical aspects of the podcast. We're new to it, so please bare with us, we'll work it out soon.

We are definitely seeing the Crons more positively. After actually playing them on the field, they do a lot better than anticipated against some of our tournament builds. We still haven't tried them against a full blown assault army yet, like Will's Fatecrusher, but will soon.


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And there is a lot more bookeeping with Crons than any other army, but they still play pretty fast.

As long as they can stand up against SW missile buffet and Blood Angel Lenny hugs, I'll be more than thrilled.

We're playing Spider/Scarabs/Imotek against a mech Blood Angel list right now, and the Crons are holding their own, just fine.

Reecius wrote:We're playing Spider/Scarabs/Imotek against a mech Blood Angel list right now, and the Crons are holding their own, just fine.

It's good to hear! I'm looking forward to your next Podcast, and the Video Battle reports!

To touch some more on "how to keep scarabs alive".

From an IG perspective (is there any other?) multi-lasers, hydras and manticores are a great answer, but they are countered pretty well by a combination of stealth and night fight. If a good manticore blast lands, that's going to be a TON of dead bases, but you'll have to be crafty with a searchlight, then roll your scatter, then get past 3+ cover.

For heavy flamers on chimeras, you've got an effective range of 12-14". Scarab minimum charge range is 19". That is the answer after the initial scarab push, not a counter.

Hellhounds? So you didn't take three vendettas? Gonna be a long weekend of facing IG and grey knights.

Platoon command squad with 4x flamers getting out of a cruising chimera is just barely enough threat to be something you could do to stop scarabs, but you couldn't do it on the top of turn 1... You wouldn't reach anything. And it's hard to take that unit when you'll want meltas for about every other matchup in the meta.

The end result of all this is that searchlights are stupid good, and proper use of throw-away chimeras will probably save IG from just getting smashed up. But it won't make the necron match easy, just winnable.

From the perspective of my grey knights? I'm going to do my best to not let the dreads get charged. Even though they won't do jack until the sun comes out. That means getting out of my rhinos and charging scarabs with purifiers. If the necron player has tesla or gauss on deck, ready to wipe out my purifiers, then I might not have any scoring units at the end of the game.

Necrons aren't anything to be totally afraid of... But I certainly feel that the 'big three' are going to have to show them some respect. More so than I think they had to show for dark eldar and blood angels...

I agree, Shep. The big three are still kings, but Crons are a lot better than we first thought. The real test will be against a true assault list like Daemons.

Here is a bat rep we made (with proxies, but it gives you an idea of what to expect) with our first game.

https://www.frontlinegaming.org/2011/11/08/video-battle-report-new-necrons-vs-dark-eldar/

Sasori wrote:

Fafnir wrote:I appreciate how Ward took the time to give every unit an absurd amount of special rules. And a million different kinds of tokens everywhere. I look forward to every game against the Necrons taking upwards of 4 hours.

Your right, he should have just kept everything the same from the last Codex. It's not like Necrons needed some Unique rules, or Diversity, or anything like that.

The issue is not that they were changed, or that they're more diverse, but that there's just way too many special rules, similar to Grey Knights. Universal Special Rules were made to streamline the game, and now we're going back to massive entries for every single unit. Some special characters have rules entries that fill entire pages. There's just so much there that the entire codex is a convoluted mess. Not to mention that there are different counters to use for every second unit's special ability.

There's a difference between diversifying a codex, and piling on special rules without abandon.

Sasori wrote:I think one of the biggest things wraiths have going for them, is that if they take Whipcoils and assault into something in cover, they will go first.

Actually, I think one of the biggest things wraiths have going for them, is that they have 2 wounds each. Which is plenty... going for them...

ShumaGorath wrote:The necrons were never tomb kings in space until now, they used to be the terminators from terminator flying around in half moons worshipping cthulu.

I.e. they were awesome.

ShumaGorath wrote:

Monster Rain wrote:

ShumaGorath wrote:Yeah, and what exactly is life force, if it's not a soul?

"...the deliciously focused trickles of electromagnetism that leaked from the mortal bodies of the Necrontyr about them..." P. 25, The C'Tan Incarnate

There. That's what the C'Tan craved from The Living, and we've already established that they don't eat the souls. I rest my case, whether you choose to accept it is another matter entirely. Horses to water and all that.

Why couldn't a race that can control time and space just manufacture that electromagnetism? We can do it and we can barely control monster trucks.

Why not indeed? I don't know, let's ask Dr. Manhattan:

Thermodynamic miracles... events with odds against so astronomical they're effectively impossible, like oxygen spontaneously becoming gold. I long to observe such a thing. And yet, in each human coupling, a thousand million sperm vie for a single egg. Multiply those odds by countless generations, against the odds of your ancestors being alive; meeting; siring this precise son; that exact daughter... Until your mother loves a man she has every reason to hate, and of that union, of the thousand million children competing for fertilization, it was you, only you, that emerged. To distill so specific a form from that chaos of improbability, like turning air to gold... that is the crowning unlikelihood. The thermodynamic miracle.

Then Dr. Manhattan eats you. De-lish!

This review of the Necron Codex talks about rules clarifications and some background lore. I found it interesting and less histrionic than their video from a few days ago that focused heavily on the background lore:

http://www.beastsofwar.com/warhammer-40k/necrons-update/

Any clarification on the Entropic Strike issue?

N.I.B. wrote:Any clarification on the Entropic Strike issue?

What is there to clarify? Until it is FAQ'D otherwise, Entropic Strike comes before Pen rolls.

I think many people interpret it as you roll to pen at the original AV value, as GW couldn't be arsed to type out 'before rolling to penetrate armor'.

As everything hits at the same I value, everything goes down 'immediately'. There's no existing rule that says 'lower the AV before roll to pen'.

Until it's FAQ it will pop up again and again. That's why I asked, of course.

N.I.B. wrote:I think many people interpret it as you roll to pen at the original AV value, as GW couldn't be arsed to type out 'before rolling to penetrate armor'.

As everything hits at the same I value, everything goes down 'immediately'. There's no existing rule that says 'lower the AV before roll to pen'.

Until it's FAQ it will pop up again and again. That's why I asked, of course.

I value has nothing to do with this. It says it's rolled immediately after you hit. You roll to pen after you hit, so this would come after the Entropic Strike rule. I personally don't think that leaves room for any interpretation. They are going to have to FAQ it, either way.

Why would BOW have any further clarification on this anyway?

Abadabadoobaddon wrote:

Sasori wrote:I think one of the biggest things wraiths have going for them, is that if they take Whipcoils and assault into something in cover, they will go first.

Actually, I think one of the biggest things wraiths have going for them, is that they have 2 wounds each. Which is plenty... going for them...

ShumaGorath wrote:The necrons were never tomb kings in space until now, they used to be the terminators from terminator flying around in half moons worshipping cthulu.

I.e. they were awesome.

ShumaGorath wrote:

Monster Rain wrote:

ShumaGorath wrote:Yeah, and what exactly is life force, if it's not a soul?

"...the deliciously focused trickles of electromagnetism that leaked from the mortal bodies of the Necrontyr about them..." P. 25, The C'Tan Incarnate

There. That's what the C'Tan craved from The Living, and we've already established that they don't eat the souls. I rest my case, whether you choose to accept it is another matter entirely. Horses to water and all that.

Why couldn't a race that can control time and space just manufacture that electromagnetism? We can do it and we can barely control monster trucks.

Why not indeed? I don't know, let's ask Dr. Manhattan:

Thermodynamic miracles... events with odds against so astronomical they're effectively impossible, like oxygen spontaneously becoming gold. I long to observe such a thing. And yet, in each human coupling, a thousand million sperm vie for a single egg. Multiply those odds by countless generations, against the odds of your ancestors being alive; meeting; siring this precise son; that exact daughter... Until your mother loves a man she has every reason to hate, and of that union, of the thousand million children competing for fertilization, it was you, only you, that emerged. To distill so specific a form from that chaos of improbability, like turning air to gold... that is the crowning unlikelihood. The thermodynamic miracle.

Then Dr. Manhattan eats you. De-lish!

I'll shoot him with poison weapons. One drop podded sternguard squad and that blue donkey-cave is done.

Sasori wrote:

N.I.B. wrote:I think many people interpret it as you roll to pen at the original AV value, as GW couldn't be arsed to type out 'before rolling to penetrate armor'.

It says it's rolled immediately after you hit. You roll to pen after you hit, so this would come after the Entropic Strike rule.

One thing that always amaze me is the quality of the translations. In the French codex, you roll the entropic at the end of the phase.

Arkon wrote:
One thing that always amaze me is the quality of the translations. In the French codex, you roll the entropic at the end of the phase.

That's how it was written in the earlier versions of the codex, which is why knowing that it is pretty clear that they changed it to happen immediately upon hitting the vehicle (i.e. before rolling penetration).

yakface wrote:

Arkon wrote:
One thing that always amaze me is the quality of the translations. In the French codex, you roll the entropic at the end of the phase.

That's how it was written in the earlier versions of the codex, which is why knowing that it is pretty clear that they changed it to happen immediately upon hitting the vehicle (i.e. before rolling penetration).

Any rumored mention of a mechanism for determining the kind of randomization this codex calls for? Maybe something being implemented in sixth?

It really shouldn't be too hard to figure out how to randomize. If you have 6 or less choices, assign each of the targets a number and roll a dice, rerolling until you get one of the target numbers. If greater than 6, easiest way is to split the group into two or three sets of equal size, then roll to see which one is picked, then continue the process. For example

# of targets - solution
1 - you got it
2 - roll a D2
3 - roll a D3
4 - roll a D6, rerolling 5 and 6 OR roll two D2s
5 - roll a D6, rerolling 6
6 - roll a D6
7 - kind of complicated. Roll a D6. Subtract one from the roll, then multiply by 6. Roll a D5. Add the two numbers together, divide by 7. The result is the remainder of the division.
8 - roll a D2, then a D4
9 - roll a D3, then a D3
10 - roll a D2, then a D5
11 - complicated
12 - roll a D2, then a D6
13 - complicated
14 - roll a D2, then a D7
15 - roll a D3, then a D5
16 - roll a D2, then a D2, then a D4.

etc. Prime numbers are hard, so I'd just use a random.org on someone's phone.

Reasin #1 for avoiding large lychguard armies with Trazyn: Avoiding doing that.


Realistically if you're assigning them numbers you could just roll a percentile die. The big issue would be assigning them numbers in the first place if you have a lot of bodies for trazyn to jump (possible 42 in the army I think).

I personally don't think any of the powers that are completely random, would be too powerful if you got to choose instead.

Hey guys, here is some more commentary on the Crons for those who are interested.

https://www.frontlinegaming.org/2011/11/10/signals-from-the-frontline-episode-5-necrons-tips-tricks-and-tactics/

Tips, Tricks and Tactics, plus some results from our play testing.

Ho ho ho, who's hating on the Barge?! 4 Twin Linked Str 7 Tesla shots that arc + 2 Str 6 Tesla Shots at 30"? That's what...average 4 Str. 7 hits + a Str. 6 hit for a bargain price--against light transports that will be killer suppression fire to help your Scarabs get into position.


Joshing around about the Cron dex aside--I'll gladly support a fellow DCM opening a store! What is your shipping cost, I couldn't see it on your site.

I am in love with Harbingers of Destruction...just, wow for that cost. Just..wow.

We're doing $5 per large shipping box, so it's nice and cheap. For each box we pack full of stuff, you only pay $5.

And thanks! We really appreciate the support.

The website isn't done yet, we still need to get a lot of our product up on the site, but we carry a lot of different lines in addition to GW. Just ask if you see something you want that isn't on the site.


@Kurgash
Yeah, they are pretty awesome. Almost all of them are really useful, TBH. That Chronomitron is great. In the podcast we go over some of it's uses.