So, what do you fine ladies and gents think of the new Necron Codex? I've read a few threads, but most of them are only hating on the fluff or Matt Ward. What do you fellows think of the codex in general? Does it have a chance in 5th ed? Expectations met or surpassed or not? Let me and anyone else reading know.

Worth the wait. I've only played a half dozenish games with my Necrons in 5th, and even without the new units, the new dex has completely revitalized my army and desire to play.

It's pretty good, I love how they've expanded the Necron forces and the ideas behind it. Less impressed by the Ctan shards, but its all balanced and alot of fun.

I can finally realise my dream of a phalanx of Warriors marching whilst Ghost Barges restock their numbers and plenty of nastiness going around my line

And the Royal court strikes me as a very powerful thing, if done right

Looks good to me, nice and customisable. I'm not really one for dissecting a Codex to see how competitive it is, but it is definitely more interesting than the last one.

I think Footcrons should be fairly viable and that's the direction I'd go if I choose to jump on board this band wagon.

I can't freaking wait to play today, and crush my buddies black templar army! MUAHAHAHHAHAHA. Though honestly, prior to this book we were about 50/50 on games anyway.

Well their anti tank capabilties cant be denied, between hordes of necron warriors and scarabs. Then once they're out of their vehicles the rest of the army (and warriors too) will polish them off real quick.

The necrons are set up to be very strong and im excited to play against them with my eldar to see if i can infact have a chance. i have no love for matt ward, but this codex seems to be one of his better ones as the rules are right, even if the points are perhaps a little low in some areas.

Oh hell yeah! Scarabs are awesome.

I just played a game against some marine player. I deepstruck a mono like 12" away from a LR, teleported 3 scarabs bases to the gate. They fleeted, and charged the LR, reducing it to AV11. The expression on my opponent's face was priceless. You can guess what happened in the shooting phase.

Shadelkan wrote:So, what do you fine ladies and gents think of the new Necron Codex? I've read a few threads, but most of them are only hating on the fluff or Matt Ward.

Actually, whilst the background forum thread has a lot of hate in it (), the N&R thread seemed to be largely supportive of the new fluff, seeing it as a much needed and largely well-done change, whilst acknowledging that Mat Ward didn't write the Codex by himself, but as a team...

I think the change to the background was quite good and definitely needed, although I have heard worrying rumours about the battles/timeline section and character fluff...

I've only skim read the battles/timeline fluff, but suffice to say the Necrons kick a lot of arse against some well known individuals of the genetically engineered super human variety.

It's only four pages of Mat Ward ramblings and I think people are reading too much into it. At the end of the day, Space Marines can't win all the time. Even Superman has an off day occasionally

give me five hours , and I'll tell you.

Had a game against IG. Dat feel when my Lord in his command barge destroys vehicles is pretty sweet.

The rules seem cool, I'm upset they nerfed my Monolith's Living Metal, but oh well it probably does balance things.

The fluff I'm undecided on. Part of me likes that they gave Necrons a bit more personality, because it makes things a bit more interesting. Another part of me thinks they made them a bit too human, they seem less other-wordly and robotic.

From what I've seen it looks good. I do miss the old living metal rule (since it was a nice big FU to the special weapons spammers), but for the most part I like the changes. It's certianly nice to see that the the codex have different ways to handle a challange rather than giving you a unit that destroys everything it looks at.

I'm not going to to say the fluff is better or worse, it's more of a lateral move. The old and new fluff are interesting in different ways .

Mostly cool stuff, a couple 's (stormlord being ridiculously undercosted, Praetorians being totally pointless, the rather silly ability to DS on your opponents turn just in time to get shot and assaulted, Orikan's ability to *really* putz an opponent in Dawn of War from being able to get on the board, C'tan shard's ability to make all difficult terrain dangerous and all dangerous twice as likely to inflict harm being only 35pts and cheaper than 24" lascannon, etc). Definitely a much stronger and more mobile army that should be a lot more varied on the table. The Ghost Ark transport is really going to make the army a beast to stop before it's in position. Look forward to playing against it later today, not so much the abuse of some of the SC's though.

CthuluIsSpy wrote:Oh hell yeah! Scarabs are awesome.

I just played a game against some marine player. I deepstruck a mono like 12" away from a LR, teleported 3 scarabs bases to the gate. They fleeted, and charged the LR, reducing it to AV11. The expression on my opponent's face was priceless. You can guess what happened in the shooting phase.

You can't assault after using the Monoliths gate. It counts as disembarking from a vehicle that moved.

My impression on the Codex? It really requires a Direction when list building. It's not like IG where you can throw anything you want together, and have a really good chance to win. You really have to think about your choices.

The Quantum Shielding makes are Vehicles very Durable. However, all of our Vehicles are on the expensive side. I think you really need to either Go Night Scythes, or Go Ghost arks for a list. I think mixing them is a bad Idea.

The Crypteks provide a lot of versatility to our lists, and really do fill in a lot of holes. It's quite nice.

We've got our Fair share of Useless units (Triarch Pratorians, come to mind) But most of our units are pretty balanced.

Overall, I'd say it's a very Balanced Codex, like Dark Eldar. Nothing Jumps out as "OP" or super "Must takes" However, this has the side effect of knocking it to Mid-tier. There is really nothing wrong with that, I did not want an IG abomination. I know it's going to be a blast to play, and I should be getting my first game in, tomorrow.

Im liking the book alot so far, I can see there being many good combos between say the royal court and your different units.

Atm I'm having trouble picking the hq to go with first.


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I wouldnt have said the triarch are completely useless, their ap2 shots would be good, 6" range isnt too bad when your jump infantry.

As for combat with them best suggestion I see is to use wraiths with them so the wriaths can lower init.

Got the dex in front of me - My friend gave me the money to buy it today for him and give it to him on monday, so i get to read it all weekend - WIN! And personally, (I'm probably get some haters for this) I adore every aspect of it! Now, is it just me, or would it make a great stage for an adeptus mechanicus counts as army?

I think its sad that we didn't see quantum shielding on the monolith. I would happily put 30-60 points onto the monolith to have it AV16 all round until the first penetration.

I'm pretty impressed by the rules, though as mentioned some of the stuff is too cheap while other stuff seems too expensive. Their uber character being cheaper than Mephistion kind of blows my mind considering what he can do.

The necrons still seem really weak in assault, too, what with I2 across the board. Not sure what they were thinking when they made flayed ones and wraiths that slow. And I think flayed ones need fleet since they can't take a transport.

I think Tesla weapons might be the new hotness, with a every 6 to hit giving you 3 hits. If I play necrons I'll definitely field immortals with tesla weapons.






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The Metal Tide wrote:I think its sad that we didn't see quantum shielding on the monolith. I would happily put 30-60 points onto the monolith to have it AV16 all round until the first penetration.

Not sure if serious?

The Metal Tide wrote:I think its sad that we didn't see quantum shielding on the monolith. I would happily put 30-60 points onto the monolith to have it AV16 all round until the first penetration.

Worst part about all this is that the turbo-pen round now works. *sigh* I'm going to miss ye, olde living metal.

Does the stormlord really not get a power weapon of any sort? I kept looking over the rules for him expecting to find something that let's him ignore armor saves in CC, but I guess he is more of a support leader.

I never palyed old necrons so some of the boo-hooing is lost on me but their are a few strong aspects (as well as a few weak one).

The worst unit in the book...and I would damn sure argue one of the worst in the game next to the pyrovore goes to the praetorians. The most worthless use of points on the planet.....

awesomness:

Stormlord is just...awesome....sadly he is so awesome every necron player will use him!
Monolith - I like the fact that the monolith teleporting gate allows you to still shoot AND assault. Kind of interesting with the deep strike possibilities and pulling units from reserve.
Royal Court (especially crypteks) - These are awesome! So many cool things. I like the template weaponsa against leadership that are ap 2, the tremor stave putting a unit in difficult terrain (pair this with world shaper ctan! awesome!!) the harp that does ranged entropic field stripping, and the eldritch stave with its str 8 ap 2 buisness. WHAT IS MORE the base staff of light is preatty awesome with assault 3 str 5 ap 3! (lords get this too)
Scarabs - Best unit in the book (THEY DONT HAVE REANIMATION PROTOCOLS THOUGH - NEITHER DO WRAITHS OR TOMB SPYDERS)
Ctan with the world shaper power turning difficult terrain into dangerous and dangerous into really fing dangerous. This has cool synergy with tremostaves and one special character that makes the enemies first turn all difficult terrain
Nightscythes are cool
doom scythes are cooler
the stalker walker is preatty sweet as well

I REALLY really wish preatorians were better as the models and fluff are uber....lych guard as well they arent as bad as preatorians but id rather spend points on royal courts than lych guard but i shall use the lych guard models for lord so it is not that bad!

Overall preatty nice but the assault options are still lacking which is going to suck for necrons.





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imark789 wrote:Does the stormlord really not get a power weapon of any sort? I kept looking over the rules for him expecting to find something that let's him ignore armor saves in CC, but I guess he is more of a support leader.

dude...he drops lightning bolts on the enemy...he doesnt need a power weapon (and no he does not get one he gets the ability to reroll hits and wounds witht he flame gauntlet) every special character is lacking either a power weapon or an invuln save. Invul saves on lord is redicilously expensive as well, costing as much as a terminator plus 5 points! (it is 3+ though)

The new codex is very impressive, if the next CSM and Tau codices are anything like this I'll be thrilled. 2011 was kind of a good year for my collection, seeing a GK and Necron update.

I just wish we could get through a few months before people started shouting nerf and OP. It's a very dynamic codex that completely changes the way necrons play. Gone are the days of solid walls of advancing gunlines methodically and evenly spaced; Necron suddenly have versatility.

Some of the HQ abilities, wargear, and C'tan powers are a bit over the top, but I think that overall it's not game breaking.

First game was a clean sweep. I took 3 spiders and 2 max scarab bases. First turn one was bulked up by three squads and went hunting, i kept the other back and spent the next two turns making it rather silly sized. Scarab speed + Stormy is brutal. The monolith also sent a few people plus a defdread to New Jersey so I was happy. Tempted to run 6 or 9 spiders to support max scarab bases (9 bases each turn on the counter charge fearless scarab unit)

Scarabs are far and away the best unit in the book now. The ability to amp up their numbers just before they move out coupled with the fact they will erase any vehicle without so much as blinking is rather insane. 5 attacks on their impressive charge range had them munching ork units and msu marine squads without even a thought.

The Ctan shard as well as warriors were lackluster in games today. Going to avoid them for a few games as i cycle through every option but so far... lordy its a fun army now.

One pitfall im seeing with the 3 other Necron people playing today was spending too much points in the Royal court. I did not take a court model (Stormy for 2 games) and I ended up with a massive army in comparison.

I traded my necrons for eldar years ago because they were so boring. Now you can actually have necrons with a theme as there are different dynasties. If there is a lord w/ res orb in a squad and a ghost ark nearby, its gonna almost impossible to kill off a unit of warriors wo throwing a good assault unit into them. I wonder who they'll fight in the WD bat rep?

Pretty solid. Still looking for the best cheese.

I think the Codex is a pretty solid update overall. Fluff-wise it's ok - while it's nice that the Necrons got fleshed out, they seem to have lost a lot of their menace. It could definitely be a lot worse though.

Theorius wrote:
dude...he drops lightning bolts on the enemy...he doesnt need a power weapon (and no he does not get one he gets the ability to reroll hits and wounds witht he flame gauntlet) every special character is lacking either a power weapon or an invuln save. Invul saves on lord is redicilously expensive as well, costing as much as a terminator plus 5 points! (it is 3+ though)

True, I guess I was expecting him to be better in CC, but he is a Necron so.

The rules - A+
The models - A-
The c'tan fluff - F (raaaaaaage)
All other fluff - C+ average.

imark789 wrote:Does the stormlord really not get a power weapon of any sort? I kept looking over the rules for him expecting to find something that let's him ignore armor saves in CC, but I guess he is more of a support leader.

Don't really need a powerweapon *that* much when you've got 3 S5 attacks that reroll hits and wounds, a 2+/3++sv, can get back up after death, and basically just need to sit in the back and do nothing to gain the army a huge advantage.

I think that Entropic Touch is little OP. I mean, an immobilsed vehicle will die to swarms of Scarabs in no time. 3 Bases have 4 attacksish on the charge, with auto hits. -15 AV please! Or you are now just a wreck.

And the Tachenary Arrow or whatever is the what I call a " Pick a Target to die Weapon".

If you see it it is likely to die.

Str 10, AP 1, Assault 1, Unlimited Range.

Noisy_Marine wrote:

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The Metal Tide wrote:I think its sad that we didn't see quantum shielding on the monolith. I would happily put 30-60 points onto the monolith to have it AV16 all round until the first penetration.

Not sure if serious?

I was being seroius. Because of the down grade of the monolith living metal it doesn't survive as well as it did. It is still AV14 and not to be taken lightly but I just thought it would have added a bonus to the monolith to be able to survive against things such as melta guns and the like.

I've not been able to actually read it myself, but from 10:00am until 10:00pm yesterday I was having parts read out to me.

So leaving mechanics aside, we were expecting bad fluff, given the author, but I really like the way that they've incorporated what necrons used to be like and what they used to do, and moved it forward from there for the new codex to be an extension of the story, rather than overwrite the history completely.

Oh, and giving the necrons more depth but still allowing for your traditional 1110010101100 type army.

And the story about the letter to the inquisitor. Three people have read that out to me in the last twenty-four hours, some of them multiple times. Hilarious.

I'm saying that the codex is probably good (and I might get to read it now my partner's at work) because all the necron players who were getting so disinterested and disheartened by having to wait over a decade for it aren't cracking the proverbial and complaining they've waited for so long for trash, but are excited about the game again and pouring over models and the codex.

I think it's a pretty good dex. Stormscarabspam will put the hurt on parking lot IG, that's for darn sure.

What I love about it is how much it's going to change the Meta; This book looks like it was made to fight elite and msu armies; and we all know how many necron armies are going to be 'reawakening' at every grand tournament in the world...

The Metal Tide wrote:

Noisy_Marine wrote:

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The Metal Tide wrote:I think its sad that we didn't see quantum shielding on the monolith. I would happily put 30-60 points onto the monolith to have it AV16 all round until the first penetration.

Not sure if serious?

I was being seroius. Because of the down grade of the monolith living metal it doesn't survive as well as it did. It is still AV14 and not to be taken lightly but I just thought it would have added a bonus to the monolith to be able to survive against things such as melta guns and the like.

Yeah but with AV16 Strength 10 couldn't even pen it. You'd need a melta gun or monstrous creature and a really good roll.

Shadelkan wrote:So, what do you fine ladies and gents think of the new Necron Codex? I've read a few threads, but most of them are only hating on the fluff or Matt Ward. What do you fellows think of the codex in general? Does it have a chance in 5th ed? Expectations met or surpassed or not? Let me and anyone else reading know.

The Necrons will be a really nasty army if people buck the trend and not take multiple small units of Warriors or Immortals. Repair Protocols only work if there's one model still standing, and since Warriors have a +4 save and regardless of Immortals Toughness 5, they will get wiped out in squads of five or less.

Scarabs are scary. Canoptek Wraiths are flat out destructive to any small sized squads w/ their Rending and ++3 Save. Liche Guard aren't that great imo if you pour low strength, high AP shots into them. They die quite fast like Terminators.

Random musings from a Necron player from a while back:

-SCs are mostly pretty good. Even the few that don't do much at least have the balancing factor of being cheap(in points). The only one who looks dumb is The Diviner because he really does not do much for his cost.

-Very cool wargear to kit your HQs to the teeth!

-(Regular)Lords/Crypteks joining units similar to SW Wolfguard=BLOODYEPICWINOVER9000!!!!

-Not sure if I'd take many warriors. The lower cost does not really offset the worse save IMHO.

-Not sure why you'd gauss blasters on immortals. Why are they Rapid Fire?

-Command Barge does not seem to add much to the army, but the other transports are great.

-Elites generally seem a little meh except for the Stalkers and gimmicky C'Tan. The Lychguard shields only bounce AP3 or better shooting since you have to use your best save in 40k.

-FA all look pretty good except for poor Destroyers. They lost 12" of range, -1S, and -1 shot. They got AP3, but they are reduced from "The bane of infantry/light vehicles" to "I hope those marines are dumb enough to come out of cover." I love that Heavy Destroyers are FA though!

-Monoliths are cool. Lots some things, gained some things.

-Doomscythes and Doomsday Arks don't look that great. The Ark's killer shot is a blast, so not much use against tanks and the Doomscythe is screaming, "SHOOT ME FIRST!" as he races toward the enemy.

-Annihilation Barge is awesome for it's low cost! Telsa weapons all the way!

-Alot of the Necron anti-tank seems pretty vulnerable to return fire.

-Quite a bit of interesting and questioning stuff. Hopefully some of the 6th Ed rumors are correct since quite a few things in this book would make more sense. Like paying for Stealth on the C'Tan, or Gauss Blasters suddenly turning into Rapid Fire.

Got to say I love the new fluff. A lot of tragedy and horror mixed together. I really like the theme of each of these powerful lords slowly going insane in their own unique ways, the the subtle effect the silent kings last commands and thoughts have on the remaining lords.

I love the new rules too. Lots of options, lots of neat tactics too try.

While I really like the new models, I like the new paint schemes even more. While the old terminator look was good, it was boring to paint. The new paint schemes really get my creative juices flowing though. The copper/patina one especially sucked me in. In 2 short weeks necrons have gone from my least favorite army to one of my favorites. Good times.

I think it has a good, pretty varied assortment of new options and improvements on a lot of old options. Some of the new units look pretty good and fun to play. From a gameplay and crunch perspective, looks solid to me.

I didn't care for the majority of the fluff, personally.

Deadshot wrote:I think that Entropic Touch is little OP. I mean, an immobilsed vehicle will die to swarms of Scarabs in no time. 3 Bases have 4 attacksish on the charge, with auto hits. -15 AV please! Or you are now just a wreck.

And the Tachenary Arrow or whatever is the what I call a " Pick a Target to die Weapon".

If you see it it is likely to die.

Str 10, AP 1, Assault 1, Unlimited Range.

Actually the Scarabs have 4 attacks base + 1 for charging, so 15 hits on an immobile vehicle. But you need to roll a 4+ for Entropic Strike to work, so those 15 hits will remove 7-8 points on average.

The Tachyon Arrow does require a hit roll to do its thing so on average you'll miss 1/3 of the time with it.

Deadshot wrote:I think that Entropic Touch is little OP. I mean, an immobilsed vehicle will die to swarms of Scarabs in no time. 3 Bases have 4 attacksish on the charge, with auto hits. -15 AV please! Or you are now just a wreck.

And the Tachenary Arrow or whatever is the what I call a " Pick a Target to die Weapon".

If you see it it is likely to die.

Str 10, AP 1, Assault 1, Unlimited Range.

If a squad of 3 scrabs makes it to an IG vehicle you deserve to have it wrecked.

it's really bright and fresh and looks like a lot of fun to play. i gave the codex a quick read this afternoon and liked a lot of what i saw, and saw lots of room for combinations.

there's almost too many elite chioces, and many of them are great. scarabs and flayed one spams look liek a viable group of units to run in tandem, and they're considerably cheaper than the other elite slot choices. it could be a lot of fun.

quantum shields are going to be amazing for strong positional players; essentially giving vehicles AV13 front and sides.

modelwise, there's some very foxy units. preatorians, deathmarks, overlords. the vehicles look pretty cool, too. really looking forward to second and third wave of models.

all in all, i'd say this codex is a fething triumph considering how long necrons have been waiting for it.

haroon wrote:

Deadshot wrote:I think that Entropic Touch is little OP. I mean, an immobilsed vehicle will die to swarms of Scarabs in no time. 3 Bases have 4 attacksish on the charge, with auto hits. -15 AV please! Or you are now just a wreck.

And the Tachenary Arrow or whatever is the what I call a " Pick a Target to die Weapon".

If you see it it is likely to die.

Str 10, AP 1, Assault 1, Unlimited Range.

If a squad of 3 scrabs makes it to an IG vehicle you deserve to have it wrecked.

You will have a turn or three of night fight, large number of scarabs, multiple "must kill now" threats and the scarabs move 6 - fleet - charge 12 for a 18+d6 threat range......

lazarian wrote:

haroon wrote:

Deadshot wrote:I think that Entropic Touch is little OP. I mean, an immobilsed vehicle will die to swarms of Scarabs in no time. 3 Bases have 4 attacksish on the charge, with auto hits. -15 AV please! Or you are now just a wreck.

And the Tachenary Arrow or whatever is the what I call a " Pick a Target to die Weapon".

If you see it it is likely to die.

Str 10, AP 1, Assault 1, Unlimited Range.

If a squad of 3 scrabs makes it to an IG vehicle you deserve to have it wrecked.

You will have a turn or three of night fight, large number of scarabs, multiple "must kill now" threats and the scarabs move 6 - fleet - charge 12 for a 18+d6 threat range......

But if you play IG, you can bring so many Searchlights and pie plates that any Scarabs on the board should be baked at 350 Degrees into Scarab Pie in about a turn or two.

IMO, If I played Guard, I would put Scarabs and Doomsday Ark as target Priority #1.

Other than the fluff about Necrons using the Webway rather than FTL travel (which I am deeming as WRONG!!!!!!! Necrons still travel via FTL travel no matter what the Codex says, Inertia-less drive and intergalactic teleportation all the way!), not too shabby, Overall I give it a B+

Iur_tae_mont wrote:

lazarian wrote:

haroon wrote:

Deadshot wrote:I think that Entropic Touch is little OP. I mean, an immobilsed vehicle will die to swarms of Scarabs in no time. 3 Bases have 4 attacksish on the charge, with auto hits. -15 AV please! Or you are now just a wreck.

And the Tachenary Arrow or whatever is the what I call a " Pick a Target to die Weapon".

If you see it it is likely to die.

Str 10, AP 1, Assault 1, Unlimited Range.

If a squad of 3 scrabs makes it to an IG vehicle you deserve to have it wrecked.

You will have a turn or three of night fight, large number of scarabs, multiple "must kill now" threats and the scarabs move 6 - fleet - charge 12 for a 18+d6 threat range......

But if you play IG, you can bring so many Searchlights and pie plates that any Scarabs on the board should be baked at 350 Degrees into Scarab Pie in about a turn or two.

IMO, If I played Guard, I would put Scarabs and Doomsday Ark as target Priority #1.

Im not saying Guard is in an auto lose situation however there is only so much firepower that can brought to bear here. 30 fearless bases with spiders spamming more. Bases can be flat shielded from fire via hiding behind vehicles and not to mention there are other threats that can waste a guard parking lot in short order means that its a tense match. Furthermore in a tourney situation an ideal army for wasting scarabs struggles against other armies (drop pod spam, other guard lists, venomspam, ect), causing you to make difficult choices. Today in games i was wasting multiple vehicles with one swarm unit charge. As little as 3 or so out of a 10 man base vaporize transports (entropic drops, then you roll for very easy pens with str 3).

Where this gets dicey is that the scarb swarms, command barges and Doomscythes all kill multiple vehicles a turn (swarms charge more than one, barge does a drive by followed by lord disembarking and charging another while the doom just eats a hellish line. This can be countered and held in check in a one on one match, but in a tourney the guard player will be hard pressed looking at the ease of melta vets vs pie plates and see that there are only so many points.

Well, I haven't read the fluff myself but I was told that apparently, opne of the Named Overlords has a Primarch is stasis? Is that true?

As for tactics, Stormscarabspam will indeed sort this trend of parking lot and Mech heavy lists out.

I have came up with a good tactic for Grey Knights. it is a very gambly tactic, with lots to lose, but if it works can be devastating.

So, Crons have Int 2 across the board. I decided to take cheap units of Strike Squads and Purgator Incinerator Squads.(this was a proxy test game), and 2 Libbies with Warp Rift.


I place the Libbies in reserve, and place all my squads in a corner with only 1 point of entry, near my board edge.

When his guys all wander over, I pop out the two Libbies from my board edge. And, because they are removed, not killed, they don't get Reanimation Protocals.

Deadshot wrote:Well, I haven't read the fluff myself but I was told that apparently, opne of the Named Overlords has a Primarch is stasis? Is that true?

It is perhaps implied

Trazyn the Infinite is first and foremost a collector of stuff.

His "collection" includes, among other fun stuff "a giant of a man clad in baroque power armour, his face contorted in a permanent scream"

Make of it what you will.

Trazyn's letter to Valeria is also hilarious. One of my favorite SC's ever already.

Zweischneid wrote:

Deadshot wrote:Well, I haven't read the fluff myself but I was told that apparently, opne of the Named Overlords has a Primarch is stasis? Is that true?

It is perhaps implied

Trazyn the Infinite is first and foremost a collector of stuff.

His "collection" includes, among other fun stuff "a giant of a man clad in baroque power armour, his face contorted in a permanent scream"

Make of it what you will.

Trazyn's letter to Valeria is also hilarious. One of my favorite SC's ever already.

I could actually imagine Trazyn giving Valeria a tour of his galleries, in exchange for some more troops... and I can picture the inquisition forking over a regiment of troopers just to give her the chance

Is that the GK Inquisitor with the Dagger of Midnight and the Trap thing?

Deadshot wrote:Is that the GK Inquisitor with the Dagger of Midnight and the Trap thing?

The Hyperstone Maze, exactly. You got a story of Valeria leading a force to Solmenace and the battle she fought there. Later you get the "Necron-PoV" in Trazyns description. Brilliantly done.

The book is (like GKs) filled to the brim with all those little cross-codex and even in-the-Codex cross-references and easter eggs. There's one story in the historical account telling you of an engagement of Silver Skulls and some other Marine Chapters taking out a Tomb World. Later you read the entry for Orikan the Diviner (who didn't even appear in the original) and get an entirely new spin on it.

Shoot me if you like, but Mat Ward's books are to me still far and wide the best contemporary reads in 40K. Better than most BL stuff infact. Fantastic stuff.

I can't wait to use some Tomb Blades on the field, such a cool, cheap and multi-purpose unit.

- For 20 points we get a jet bike with twin-linked weapon and warrior statline (+1T as jet bike)
- Since it's a jet bike we can shoot rapid fire Gauss Blaster after moving 12" to it's full 24" range, AND re-roll misses
- add the Shield Vane for 10 pts, and you get what would be almost like old codex Immortal (roughly same stats and price), but it's a jetbike now!
- add Nebuloscope and you will hit on 2+ AND re-roll misses, so kinda hard to miss your target now...
- add Shadowloom and you get TurboBoost Cover Save on 2+

Awesome choice for smaller point games and doing some chaos in enemy's ranks...

I actually am a little jelous of the Destroyers. in the old codex they were T5(6) jetbikes, so Str 10 could ID them and stop WBB. Now, they may be slower as JI, but are tough with T6 standard, so Str 10 can't ID therm and stop RAP.

Deadshot wrote:I actually am a little jelous of the Destroyers. in the old codex they were T5(6) jetbikes, so Str 10 could ID them and stop WBB. Now, they may be slower as JI, but are tough with T6 standard, so Str 10 can't ID therm and stop RAP.

Considering how RAP isn't stopped by ID anyway, I don't see why this would be such a big deal...

Deadshot wrote:I actually am a little jelous of the Destroyers. in the old codex they were T5(6) jetbikes, so Str 10 could ID them and stop WBB. Now, they may be slower as JI, but are tough with T6 standard, so Str 10 can't ID therm and stop RAP.

Destroyers are only T5 (and only 1 wound). You mean the Destroyer Lord? And ID never stops RAP anymore (though unit wiped out does for non-characters).

From my point of view:

Good stuff;

New units, new models, more variety, more ICs, some choice of decent war gear, and it's stimulated some good discussion.

Bad stuff;

Tomb kings in space stuff (WHY?????), ICs from a vastly superior machine race now have basically human foibles, fundamental change in background

For me, I'll take the new codex and just ignore any silly fluff stuff that doesn't suit, (like non- psychic techno machines using a psychically-based web-way rather than technology based FTP drives for space travel) and have fun with it anyway, which is what it's all about in the end!

Looking forward to my first game with them tonight!

Deadshot wrote:
If you see it it is likely to die.

Str 10, AP 1, Assault 1, Unlimited Range.

Is it?

Assuming you shoot it at a juicy target like a Landraider (without cover), it'll hit 2/3 of the time and glance or penetrate 1/2 of the time. That right there means it'll only "work" every 3 games under ideal circumstance (i.e. there is a Landraider worth shooting, not MSU-Razor/Venom-spam, nor is it in cover, etc..). Even on a glance, stuff will only "die" 1/6th of the time and 1/2 of the time on a pen. So you got a slightly over 50% chance to "kill" the Landraider on a pen or glance. So you only kill it every 6th game more or less if you take it every single game (and you face a Landraider without cover every single game). Alternatively, you would need to take 6 Tachyon Arrows to be "sure" the LR is dead (not possible anyhow) which would equal about 180 pts. So, yah, I guess it works if you see lots of Landraiders or other 180+ vehicles. If you run into MSU-spam more often (or even foot-lists), you'll struggle to make back your points on it consistently over many games.

Zweischneid wrote:

Deadshot wrote:I actually am a little jelous of the Destroyers. in the old codex they were T5(6) jetbikes, so Str 10 could ID them and stop WBB. Now, they may be slower as JI, but are tough with T6 standard, so Str 10 can't ID therm and stop RAP.

Destroyers are only T5 (and only 1 wound). You mean the Destroyer Lord? And ID never stops RAP anymore (though unit wiped out does for non-characters).

Sorry, Destroyer Lords was what I meant.

I was told RAP can be stopped by ID them. Isd that wrong? if so, how CAN you stop RAP from taking place?


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Zweischneid wrote:

Deadshot wrote:
If you see it it is likely to die.

Str 10, AP 1, Assault 1, Unlimited Range.

Is it?

Assuming you shoot it at a juicy target like a Landraider (without cover), it'll hit 2/3 of the time and glance or penetrate 1/2 of the time. That right there means it'll only "work" every 3 games under ideal circumstance (i.e. there is a Landraider worth shooting, not MSU-Razor/Venom-spam, nor is it in cover, etc..). Even on a glance, stuff will only "die" 1/6th of the time and 1/2 of the time on a pen. So you got a slightly over 50% chance to "kill" the Landraider on a pen or glance. So you only kill it every 6th game more or less if you take it every single game (and you face a Landraider without cover every single game). Alternatively, you would need to take 6 Tachyon Arrows to be "sure" the LR is dead (not possible anyhow) which would equal about 180 pts. So, yah, I guess it works if you see lots of Landraiders or other 180+ vehicles. If you run into MSU-spam more often (or even foot-lists), you'll struggle to make back your points on it consistently over many games.

Fair enough, I forgot it is single use. But infinate range? Bigger the table is better.

Deadshot wrote:
I was told RAP can be stopped by ID them. Isd that wrong? if so, how CAN you stop RAP from taking place?

For regular Necrons, if the unit has to fall back or if the unit is destroyed entirely, no RAP.

For IC with the ever-living rule, it always comes back but must be placed within 3" of the place it was killed and at least 1" from enemy models. You can thus stop RAP by "covering" the place it was killed with enemy models. Otherwise, RAP can always be attempted.

Indeed, RAP kick in "everytime a model is removed as a casualty". It should work even if the model was removed due to JoTWW, Deepstrike mishap (in the case of ICs) and more. Though I believe that might yet need to be FAQed properly.

Fair enough, I forgot it is single use. But infinate range? Bigger the table is better.

orbital bombardment is unlimited range too

yes, scatter blah, not when you can take kazarmov and have that suicidal justicar thawn run in for you!

Yep, I have a nice, but risky and difficult Tactic for Anti Necron GKs.

Basically take a load of Chepa Henchman with Coteaz Spam, and a Libby with Warp Rift. Place some Crusaders, very survivable in a corner with one entrance near your board edge. Use Coteaz's Psychic Commune( IIRC he does have this) and his -1 to reserves to wait in reserve unitll the all get close. Then Bring in you libby. Becausde Necrons have Int 2 across ther board, and Warp Rift causes an Int test or removal from play, it can effectively take out the target, and prevent RAP.

Deadshot wrote:Yep, I have a nice, but risky and difficult Tactic for Anti Necron GKs.

Basically take a load of Chepa Henchman with Coteaz Spam, and a Libby with Warp Rift. Place some Crusaders, very survivable in a corner with one entrance near your board edge. Use Coteaz's Psychic Commune( IIRC he does have this) and his -1 to reserves to wait in reserve unitll the all get close. Then Bring in you libby. Becausde Necrons have Int 2 across ther board, and Warp Rift causes an Int test or removal from play, it can effectively take out the target, and prevent RAP.

And all of a sudden you realize that Warp Rift uses a Flamer Template. Why the HELL would any remotely competent Necron player go near enough for you to use this?

Read it again. You put a few units in a corner near your board edge, where they havem to come near you board edge to fire at you. like this


____
|X<----Squad
| X<-----Cons
| X<-------Libby from reserve.
---------------------Board Edge



Obviously it won't work all the time, and its highly risky, but can be devastating.

Deadshot wrote:Read it again. You put a few units in a corner near your board edge, where they havem to come near you board edge to fire at you. like this


____
|X<----Squad
| X<-----Cons
| X<-------Libby from reserve.
---------------------Board Edge



Obviously it won't work all the time, and its highly risky, but can be devastating.

Or they just ignore your henchmen? Seriously, how often do you get terrain that lets you hide in a place like that, without conciously placing terrain so you get to use this trick, which is borderline cheating?

AlmightyWalrus wrote:

Deadshot wrote:Read it again. You put a few units in a corner near your board edge, where they havem to come near you board edge to fire at you. like this


____
|X<----Squad
| X<-----Cons
| X<-------Libby from reserve.
---------------------Board Edge



Obviously it won't work all the time, and its highly risky, but can be devastating.

Or they just ignore your henchmen? Seriously, how often do you get terrain that lets you hide in a place like that, without conciously placing terrain so you get to use this trick, which is borderline cheating?

Not to add fuel to the fire, but anything hiding behind anything in an obvious lure is Wraith Bait.

Sasori wrote:

CthuluIsSpy wrote:Oh hell yeah! Scarabs are awesome.

I just played a game against some marine player. I deepstruck a mono like 12" away from a LR, teleported 3 scarabs bases to the gate. They fleeted, and charged the LR, reducing it to AV11. The expression on my opponent's face was priceless. You can guess what happened in the shooting phase.

You can't assault after using the Monoliths gate. It counts as disembarking from a vehicle that moved.

You can't? Crap, there goes that combo

The dex seems very interesting and, all in all, pretty balanced at a first reading... Something is slightly undercosted and there are some obvious OTT things just like in every other dex ( Entropic strike? Oh gosh... that's totally OTT... fortunately you can't spam it) and some units that could have been better (given their fluff Praetorians deserved something to make em more resilient, like an inv save of sort... while the intercepting DS of deathmarks is... welll meh... very situational... it looks just a creative way to get instagibbed by those nasty cc units)...
But I have to say that I'm satisfied and I can't wait to play against my necron buddy!!! Ward confirms his good rule-design... sadly he does the same about fluff-writing ... Ireally do not like the new fluff but this is a question of personal taste..

The infinite ranged Entropic strike weapon you can give to a Cryptek - What restrictions am I not reading on this?

On a side note - is it me or is the Ghost Ark and Doomsday Ark just a flipped version of each other?

An excellent, fun, and balanced Codex with great fluff and models to boot.

Da-Rock wrote:The infinite ranged Entropic strike weapon you can give to a Cryptek - What restrictions am I not reading on this?

On a side note - is it me or is the Ghost Ark and Doomsday Ark just a flipped version of each other?

Yep, flipped upside down your Ghost Ark becomes a doomsday Ark.

Da-Rock wrote:The infinite ranged Entropic strike weapon you can give to a Cryptek - What restrictions am I not reading on this?

None. Other than that it's unique per royal court (so 2 max in the army) and only Assault 1 on a BS4 model. So it's not going to mass-spam entropic strike Landraiders into destruction like the (highly theoretic) all out Scarab-swarm assault. But it might be useful "sniping down" some AV-values here and there before unloading a Doomsday Cannon, Gauss Cannons or Eldritch Lance or some such.

lazarian wrote:First game was a clean sweep. I took 3 spiders and 2 max scarab bases. First turn one was bulked up by three squads and went hunting, i kept the other back and spent the next two turns making it rather silly sized. Scarab speed + Stormy is brutal. The monolith also sent a few people plus a defdread to New Jersey so I was happy. Tempted to run 6 or 9 spiders to support max scarab bases (9 bases each turn on the counter charge fearless scarab unit)

Scarabs are far and away the best unit in the book now. The ability to amp up their numbers just before they move out coupled with the fact they will erase any vehicle without so much as blinking is rather insane. 5 attacks on their impressive charge range had them munching ork units and msu marine squads without even a thought.

The Ctan shard as well as warriors were lackluster in games today. Going to avoid them for a few games as i cycle through every option but so far... lordy its a fun army now.

One pitfall im seeing with the 3 other Necron people playing today was spending too much points in the Royalty court. I did not take a court model (Stormy for 2 games) and I ended up with a massive army in comparison.

C'tan ARE pretty lackluster now, since Str4 can damage them. I'm not a fan so far.

yes... those fancy weapons can be nasty but they're one use only and you absolutely cannot spam them, so they seem pretty balanced to me.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Ouch... I've just read the "Black templar VS Imotekh" fluff...
So Now Necrons are swift to react, do not kill the chapter master of one of the largest forces in the galaxy, while their ships cannot stand a chance against a battle barge? well... I really dslike the new fluff...

Didn't read it, just looked for art. I was not displeased at what i found

I already have a creepy crawly army list idea. Lots of scarabs, wraiths, spiders and stalkers. The HQ choice would be illuminor Szeras to top it off.

Zweischneid wrote:

Da-Rock wrote:The infinite ranged Entropic strike weapon you can give to a Cryptek - What restrictions am I not reading on this?

None. Other than that it's unique per royal court (so 2 max in the army) and only Assault 1 on a BS4 model. So it's not going to mass-spam entropic strike Landraiders into destruction like the (highly theoretic) all out Scarab-swarm assault. But it might be useful "sniping down" some AV-values here and there before unloading a Doomsday Cannon, Gauss Cannons or Eldritch Lance or some such.

That's what it is. I forgot the limit of 1 per court - makes waaay ,more sense. I was worried you would see it spammed etc.

What page is the part with Helbrecht on? More Templar fluff is always welcome!

Speaking of which, a little OT question. Was there ever a spot for Black Templars under 40K armies on GW site?

Deadshot wrote:Speaking of which, a little OT question. Was there ever a spot for Black Templars under 40K armies on GW site?

Don't think so; they, Dark Angels, Blood Angels and Space Wolves were all listed under "Space Marines" until the two latter received their 5th ed codices.

Ok, thanks.

baaah... Black templars losing close combat to necrons... and necrons losing a starship battle to Templars (you know... the guys that wanna kill their own engines(astropaths)) .... 40K is going mad...




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BTW What do you guys think of flayed ones? I've heard someone sying thy're awful but they look fine to me...

punkow wrote:baaah... Black templars losing close combat to necrons... and necrons losing a starship battle to Templars (you know... the guys that wanna kill their own engines(astropaths)) .... 40K is going mad...




Automatically Appended Next Post:
BTW What do you guys think of flayed ones? I've heard someone sying thy're awful but they look fine to me...

Some of them look cool, but some of them really don't.

I think the new models all look pretty bad. I really liked the old ones - they actually looked like they'd just flensed the skin off something and draped it on. The current ones just look too bulky, and in some cases with their 'trophies,' goofy.

Nice codex, not too OP, glad the Monolith was nerfed though. Damn near impossible to kill.

Stormlord is undercosted for what he does, but not ridiculously so.

24" bubble o' death.

Scurubs are scurry

Dooooooooooom scythes.

I like the fluff. It makes the army more colorful and interesting to read about. They have personality now.

All in all, I like this codex. Despite not liking Matt Ward in a general sense, I think this is a very balanced codex in terms of gameplay, and well written in terms of fluff.

punkow wrote:baaah... Black templars losing close combat to necrons... and necrons losing a starship battle to Templars (you know... the guys that wanna kill their own engines(astropaths)) .... 40K is going mad...




Automatically Appended Next Post:
BTW What do you guys think of flayed ones? I've heard someone sying thy're awful but they look fine to me...

Yes, Necrons losing a starship to Black Templars... you know, the guys that lead the space defense of Armageddon against Ghaz and his boyz...

Lokas wrote:Stormlord is undercosted for what he does, but not ridiculously so.

24" bubble o' death.

Scurubs are scurry

Dooooooooooom scythes.

I like the fluff. It makes the army more colorful and interesting to read about. They have personality now.

All in all, I like this codex. Despite not liking Matt Ward in a general sense, I think this is a very balanced codex in terms of gameplay, and well written in terms of fluff.

Not really, considering you have a 33% chance that his two main special abilities stop working at the beginning of the second turn and it jut goes up from there. He's not really under-priced, especially considering he is the single most expensive named character and the second most expensive single model you can take (overlord with every possible upgrade is 75 points more than imotekh) (also tied with fully upgraded D. Lord).

To OP:
New codex seems balanced, save for stormlord and scarabs. But other than that, I was surprised that it wasn't another GK style codex.
Looking forward to fight with them.

I have to say that I should see him actually used before saying that Imotekh is OP... His Night fighting ability is HUGE but he's true crap in CC... Draigo for example is a nice force multiplier and kicks every ass you send to him in CC...

About Flayed ones I also think the new models are meh... But I was asking about their rules... Are they usable? I have 20 of them and I would like to sell 'em to my necron buddy but I don't wanna get money from him for a crappy unit...

punkow wrote:I have to say that I should see him actually used before saying that Imotekh is OP... His Night fighting ability is HUGE but he's true crap in CC... Draigo for example is a nice force multiplier and kicks every ass you send to him in CC...

About Flayed ones I also think the new models are meh... But I was asking about their rules... Are they usable? I have 20 of them and I would like to sell 'em to my necron buddy but I don't wanna get money from him for a crappy unit...

No rending, no power weapons, I2, no special CC rules (like terrifying visage before)....all they have is an extra attack and a larger squad size. Basically, they're our CC blob squad with nothing special. Sheer weight of numbers will win them the day but not against an opposing GOOD CC unit.

Oh, and I don't think they're fearless either.

Yeah, of all the models in Codex I'd say Flayed Ones were the only ones who actually got worse. Not much worse, they were pretty terrible before, but definitely worse.

The treatment of Flayed Ones reminds me of Mandrakes somewhat, yet in this case, instead of getting slightly better but still rubbish, they got slighty worse and thus slightly more rubbish.

Mandrakes got a nicer model update though...

Flashman wrote:The treatment of Flayed Ones reminds me of Mandrakes somewhat, yet in this case, instead of getting slightly better but still rubbish, they got slighty worse and thus slightly more rubbish.

Mandrakes got a nicer model update though...

No way. I could very well have done without cheesy Warcraft-rip-offs in 40K.

Flayed Ones, both new and old, are far superiour to the lazy copy-and-paste Mandrakes they did.

Having had a good read through and a decent chat with the GW guys at my local store I think on balance it looks a very good codex. It gives the crons loads more stuff, a lot of which is cool and interesting, but without making them OP or forcing them down certain routes.

I am very much a player who likes to field forces made up of mutually suporting units of different types, I don't like spam armies. To this end I enjoyed the codex.

I think they toned down the bits that were ridiculously OP: monoliths and C'Tan and bulked up the areas that were missing. Doesn't make them into a mech force either, allows them to continue as a foot force with some interesting but eminently killable vehicles. Loads of firepower but clear vulnerabilities.

Overall I am very impressed! Well done GW.

I agree, I think overall it's a balanced Codex that has a lot of potential synergy, potential builds, combinations and variety of builds and I think it will be of a competitive, but not dominant power level (akin to Tyranids).

HOWEVER, I think there are some internal balance issues, such as the clear strengths of Scarabs and then clear weaknesses of Praetorians, Flayed Ones and much of the pricing or changes within the 'dex.

My only problem with the Codex is being able to take all the units that I want to take in a smaller points game. I think Wraiths are really cool and approve of the keeping of their stats for the most part the same and giving them Rending.. although if a unit ignores terrain and walls and what-not... and seemingly phases in and out of reality... why not just make their attacks Power Weapon? Oh well.

Flayed ones are not the best, and I think that to charge $45 for 5 of them is just nuts.

Scarabs are nuts now, that's a definite. Ripping vehicles to part and being able to hide just about anywhere on the board is crazy good. This is something that will cause most armies to bring at least one squad of these buggers. Here's to the death of AV14.

Destroyers are interesting, having preferred enemy against everything, that's cool.

The one thing that struck me odd was the fact that just about every slot has a huge amount of variety except for troops, where there are just two options. I suppose it makes sense... and I haven't fully read the book yet so I can't say whether any characters make a certain squad scoring or troops but I will read on. Nice book so far.

Still to early to say for sure, need to play them and play against, se tournament resoults etc.

Some of the sides I dont like is that they got abit many insta kill items (not even insta death but insta kill so ethernal warrior can go hang) like Labyrinth, Monolith, Arrow (did i miss any?). The ES is a bit OTT since along with all the insta kill items, the scarab mind swarm thingy (hit random modell in unit thou) your heros, MS and multi wound units are in a big heap of trubble. Wich brings me to all the anti Tyranids wich just keeps making them a pure punching bag :/ .
They got alot of new nasty unique rules wich I find might be to many for one team. But then this might be GWs new aproche, giving all new codexs their new unique rules wich will be bad for those left behind but will balance itself out in the end (atleast I hope so).
Then there is the Death Ray wich have the possibility to hit and possibly kill around 5-7 landraiders (Highly unlikely situation) but I dont think any weapon out side Apoc should even have that possibility.
The Flayed ones should be troop or at least better in some way, also only 2 troops (warriors, immortals) is a real draw back and they dont even get any cool upgrades like other troops.

On a personal note I loved the old fluff better, yes the new fluff gives them much more character and a "real" story. But what I loved with the old so much more was all the mystic about the necrons. They felt enigmatic, unkown, strange and alien for me, you got more speculations and not much was known about them. I felt this could be a really good theme for the necrons but now I feel that they are just one of the others and not that "speciall".

The modells should have less buttons and leavers, and be more plugged in necrons (if any "driver") since why should the sophisticated necro dermis of the necrons force them to use buttons instead of just "plug in and play"?

All in all thou its still to early to say for me if I like or not.

Isengard wrote:Having had a good read through and a decent chat with the GW guys at my local store I think on balance it looks a very good codex...

Um... at what point did GW staff start given out balanced opinons? I've yet to come across a codex that GW employee didn't declare to be the most amazing army book ever (even Dark Angels!)

I did. A guy who used to work at GW a long time ago said the SM in Battle for Maccrage were only a small part of an army, and I should taake ther Nids, with their higher model count, more units, and basically calling the nids superior( 4th ed Codex). He wasn't biased or anything, he was a Blood Angels man at the time himself, but thought that the nids in the box were better by far.

Matt1785 wrote:My only problem with the Codex is being able to take all the units that I want to take in a smaller points game. I think Wraiths are really cool and approve of the keeping of their stats for the most part the same and giving them Rending.. although if a unit ignores terrain and walls and what-not... and seemingly phases in and out of reality... why not just make their attacks Power Weapon? Oh well.

While a power weapon would be nice, I honestly think that would make Wraiths way stupid powerful and jack up their points. Fluff wise, there's an explanation for why it's rending. A Wraith can be completely in another phase state for an indefinite period, but it takes far more stress and power to be in two different phases (which I kind of get). So for a Wraith to still have its body phased out and immune to damage, while phasing in its blades past armour requires a degree of luck (good timing, otherwise they miss and phase in outside the body/armour altogether) as well as a lot of power. Seems to me that's more suited to rending than power weapons.

Been a Necron player for about 2 years - they were my first army... I love the new codex Cant wait to get the ghost arks and doomsday ark built and trying them out! (Also can't wait for the army builder update lol)

Well I'm leaning towards not so good but I havent played with them yet. I dont like what they did with the destroyer or wraiths. Wraiths wipcoils makes up for the low initiative but no reanimation? Why change them in such a drastic way in the first place. Why did Destroyers gauss cannons get so nerfed- less range, strength, and shots? Why the need for such change again? And here is the kicker, not a single unit besides the C'tan ave a base I stat above 2. They are supposed to be a shooty army but only 3 weapons have a range above 24", so they can STILL be picked of by other heavy weapons units from other armies. I guess we will just have to see.

Oh and by the way... WHERE THE "F" ARE MY PARIAHS!?!

lowmanjason wrote:Well I'm leaning towards not so good but I havent played with them yet. I dont like what they did with the destroyer or wraiths. Wraiths wipcoils makes up for the low initiative but no reanimation? Why change them in such a drastic way in the first place. Why did Destroyers gauss cannons get so nerfed- less range, strength, and shots? Why the need for such change again? And here is the kicker, not a single unit besides the C'tan ave a base I stat above 2. They are supposed to be a shooty army but only 3 weapons have a range above 24", so they can STILL be picked of by other heavy weapons units from other armies. I guess we will just have to see.

Oh and by the way... WHERE THE "F" ARE MY PARIAHS!?!

Wraiths now Ignore Terrain, meaning with Whipcoils they go first in combat even attacking in cover, have 2W, and rending. With a base cost of 6 points less..and you are complaining about them? They are significantly better.

It's a lot harder to be picked apart, than they seem. You'll be a bit surprised.

And your Pariahs are now Lycheguard.

imark789 wrote:
The fluff I'm undecided on. Part of me likes that they gave Necrons a bit more personality, because it makes things a bit more interesting. Another part of me thinks they made them a bit too human, they seem less other-wordly and robotic.

Pick up a copy of The Fall of Damnos.

The new crons are most definetly not "human". Not in any sense of the word.

...the book makes me want to run Flayed ones just because of how they're described as thinking/acting.

I think taking 2 units of 20 warriors both with a phaeron with rez orb, backed up by a couple of ghost arks would make a nice solid core to an army.

I prefer the new fluff much more, to be honest. It gives them more personality. Can't really say anything on the rules, other than EEEE TRIARCH STALKER.

Ohyeah, that's right! Necrons now have a walker? Is it any good?

@ Sasori
1- wraiths always ignored terrain
2- Whipcoils are 10 point upgrade making them a 45 point model to more or less equal their former 6 I stat.
3- I had another point but now I forgot it! lol
4- Oh I remember now, I do like the fact that you can take up to 5 now. Rending... ehh whatever. I have said many times before is a non issue for me. Flayed Ones should have rending.

So they come out better overall I admit but I don't like what they did to change form Necrons to just robots

Deadshot wrote:Ohyeah, that's right! Necrons now have a walker? Is it any good?

Very good. Works extremely well as a support unit to Destroyers and other heavy support shooting units.

The Stalker is a bit pricey though; so whilst it's good, it's also an investment.

lowmanjason wrote:Flayed Ones should have rending.

So they come out better overall I admit but I don't like what they did to change form Necrons to just robots

Why should Flayed Ones have rending?

@Just Dave
Because, what else do they have? Three S4 I2 attacks that you most like won't be able to use because they will almost always go last and be dead by the time its their turn to strike because now they only have a 4+ save. Now are just a ineffective CC unit. I would gladly take the old Flayed Ones over the new ones any day.

1- wraiths always ignored terrain

Right.

2- Whipcoils are 10 point upgrade making them a 45 point model to more or less equal their former 6 I stat.

No, it's significantly better. Things that have I6 are now going after you instead of at the same time and things that are Higher than I6 are going after you. This is a pretty big deal for Eldar/Dark Eldar Armies/Genetealers etc etc.

3- I had another point but now I forgot it! lol

Uh, OK.

4- Oh I remember now, I do like the fact that you can take up to 5 now. Rending... ehh whatever. I have said many times before is a non issue for me. Flayed Ones should have rending.

You can take up to 6. Rending is a pretty big deal. Being able to ignore Marine Armor, and even more reliably pen tanks, is very very good.

So they come out better overall I admit but I don't like what they did to change form Necrons to just robots

Yes, I did enjoy the old models a lot. I'm looking forward to see what they do with the new ones, I'm hoping they look spectacular.

2- Whipcoils are 10 point upgrade making them a 45 point model to more or less equal their former 6 I stat.

No, it's significantly better. Things that have I6 are now going after you instead of at the same time and things that are Higher than I6 are going after you. This is a pretty big deal for Eldar/Dark Eldar Armies/Genetealers etc etc.

Like I said, more or less.

4- Oh I remember now, I do like the fact that you can take up to 5 now. Rending... ehh whatever. I have said many times before is a non issue for me. Flayed Ones should have rending.

You can take up to 6. Rending is a pretty big deal. Being able to ignore Marine Armor, and even more reliably pen tanks, is very very good.

You got me on the 6.

Rending is all great and everything but not all attacks rend. If it were a power weapon then all attacks would be a power weapon attack, not saying they should be power weapons at all, and having rending is nice, but its not really reliable.

lowmanjason wrote:@Just Dave
Because, what else do they have? Three S4 I2 attacks that you most like won't be able to use because they will almost always go last and be dead by the time its their turn to strike because now they only have a 4+ save. Now are just a ineffective CC unit. I would gladly take the old Flayed Ones over the new ones any day.

But why rending? There's other, more suitable ways of changing them to be better in close combat. I agree, they need to be better in close combat, but I don't see the justification behind rending other than seeking a suitably powerful fix-it button to make a unit good in close combat.
Terror/visage, preferred enemy, higher initiative, better infiltration are all more suitable ways of fixing it, and then others too.

Arandmoor wrote:

imark789 wrote:
The fluff I'm undecided on. Part of me likes that they gave Necrons a bit more personality, because it makes things a bit more interesting. Another part of me thinks they made them a bit too human, they seem less other-wordly and robotic.

Pick up a copy of The Fall of Damnos.

The new crons are most definetly not "human". Not in any sense of the word.

...the book makes me want to run Flayed ones just because of how they're described as thinking/acting.

I just read the book too, it makes me want to run the storm lord with lots of wraiths around him like in the book.

One thing I do dislike is the apparent desire to want to have their cake and eat it, as it were.

E.g. rejoicing at loss of phase out, then bemoaning living metal. (Without a point increase, that would not really be balanced).
Bemoaning a 5++, rejoicing at it being permanent.
Bemoaning warscythe changing, then realising it's actually better in more circumstances.
Bemoaning Scarabs being slower, rejoicing at increased power.
Bemoaning Tomb Kings in Space, then criticising 'Tesla' for being unoriginal.

(I'm watching the BoW video as I write this)
Whilst a lot of stuff is flawed and should really have been changed before the print and there are obvious weak points, as someone that themselves likes to develop rules, a lot of opinions and desires is just imbalanced and unreasonable IMHO, however obviously a lot of this is just resistance to change.

I don't have the codex but I really don't think I'll be getting it. I'm just so unimpressed with the lack of imagination.

The names are typically poor mish mashes of grimdark with a few halfway decent ones thrown in. I mean seriously Doomark? Death Marks?

And the over reliance on humanoid models is terrible. The old tomb spiders, wraiths and FW's tomb stalkers had potential but now we have robot skeletons, taller robot skeletons, robot skeletons with shoulder pads and robot skeletons driving flying tanks (and using joysticks and track balls). It's all just so dull...

And the guns that look like well guns. Necrons, eldar, 'nids, 3 alien races with vastly different tech and they still make guns with sights and clips and barrels. Why not staves (I know they have some) or built in weapons, something, anything more interesting than a robot skeleton holding a gun or a sword or a shield.

The DOOMARK is especially egregious here with the most phallic weapon GW has ever produced held between the legs of a robot skeleton. It looks like a parody someone did on photoshop.

It all just feels so half baked.

it's a pity that scarabs,destroyers and wraiths are all fast attack :(

it would have been better if destroyers were either heavy support or elite.

eldaritis...

Mr Nobody wrote:

Arandmoor wrote:

imark789 wrote:
The fluff I'm undecided on. Part of me likes that they gave Necrons a bit more personality, because it makes things a bit more interesting. Another part of me thinks they made them a bit too human, they seem less other-wordly and robotic.

Pick up a copy of The Fall of Damnos.

The new crons are most definetly not "human". Not in any sense of the word.

...the book makes me want to run Flayed ones just because of how they're described as thinking/acting.

I just read the book too, it makes me want to run the storm lord with lots of wraiths around him like in the book.

I'm pretty sure all the main players in the book except for the undying one were crypteks and not the special characters. Well and the flayed one lord thing that obviously doesn't exist.

They made the flayers look horrible. Why? Is this Matt Wards idea! I need answers!

It is highly unlikely that Ward is responsible for how the models look.

XCom wrote:They made the flayers look horrible. Why? Is this Matt Wards idea! I need answers!

They do look bad, but to be honest I think Flayed Ones are a hard concept to pull off anyway. How do you go about sculpting a robot covered in human skin? The last ones were never highly regarded either, it's just now they look like masterpieces compared to the new miniatures. They tried to get around the challenging brief by adding more gore, but it doesn't work.

If they'd made them a decent unit, I'd have a go at doing something with the Necron Warrior and VC Ghoul sprues. But they didn't, so I won't

One thing I dearly miss is the loss of true ability to screw with enemy's morale...

Pariahs with their LD lowering skill were fun, and not OP (unlike IG Psyker Battle Squads)...
Same goes for Flayed Ones who used to scare with their gruesome appearance...

All we have now is a flawed cryptec conclave with 2 skills, of which neither even lowers enemy LD.
Trying to roll to-wound with S8 against LD higher than 7 (most armies) really makes that staff crappy.
Not to mention Nightmare Shroud which also is very much unreliable agains mentioned LD armies...

Sad.

For and army of so called "fearsome undead machines" they aren't fearless in most cases (yay for Weaken Resolve IG spam)
and don't cause much fear apart from lore...

All but the above seems either awesome or at least fully digestible.

New codex seems fine, except the Dolmen Gates.

Deadshot wrote:Yep, I have a nice, but risky and difficult Tactic for Anti Necron GKs.

Basically take a load of Chepa Henchman with Coteaz Spam, and a Libby with Warp Rift. Place some Crusaders, very survivable in a corner with one entrance near your board edge. Use Coteaz's Psychic Commune( IIRC he does have this) and his -1 to reserves to wait in reserve unitll the all get close. Then Bring in you libby. Becausde Necrons have Int 2 across ther board, and Warp Rift causes an Int test or removal from play, it can effectively take out the target, and prevent RAP.

Grey Knights 5th Edition Codex page 25, under the Warp Rift:
For every test that is failed, one model is removed as casualty with no saving throws allowed.

Necrons 5th Edition Codex page 29, under the Reanimation Protocols:
If a model with Reanimation Protocols rule is removed as casualty, there is chance that it will self-repair and return to play at the end of the current phase.

Necrons get their Reanimation Protocols to the Warp Rift, because:
-Reanimation Protocols works when a model is removed as casualty.
-Reanimation Protocols is not a save.

XCom wrote:They made the flayers look horrible. Why? Is this Matt Wards idea! I need answers!

Is Mat Ward a sculptor? No, he is not.

Herr Dexter wrote:One thing I dearly miss is the loss of true ability to screw with enemy's morale...

Pariahs with their LD lowering skill were fun, and not OP (unlike IG Psyker Battle Squads)...
Same goes for Flayed Ones who used to scare with their gruesome appearance...

All we have now is a flawed cryptec conclave with 2 skills, of which neither even lowers enemy LD.
Trying to roll to-wound with S8 against LD higher than 7 (most armies) really makes that staff crappy.
Not to mention Nightmare Shroud which also is very much unreliable agains mentioned LD armies...

Sad.

For and army of so called "fearsome undead machines" they aren't fearless in most cases (yay for Weaken Resolve IG spam)
and don't cause much fear apart from lore...

All but the above seems either awesome or at least fully digestible.

its still strength 8 ap 1 template so you dont need to roll to wound and even against leadership ten on a 6+ you kill a dude....that is not bad by any means, especially if you plan to make a template telport group With a couple lords with guantlets of fire and a few of the crypteks with the template attack which is also the harbinger that gets the veil of darkness. I think it could be nasty to drop all those templates on some dudes!

You mean roll to hit, right?

Herr Dexter wrote:One thing I dearly miss is the loss of true ability to screw with enemy's morale...

Pariahs with their LD lowering skill were fun, and not OP (unlike IG Psyker Battle Squads)...
Same goes for Flayed Ones who used to scare with their gruesome appearance...

All we have now is a flawed cryptec conclave with 2 skills, of which neither even lowers enemy LD.
Trying to roll to-wound with S8 against LD higher than 7 (most armies) really makes that staff crappy.
Not to mention Nightmare Shroud which also is very much unreliable agains mentioned LD armies...

Sad.

For and army of so called "fearsome undead machines" they aren't fearless in most cases (yay for Weaken Resolve IG spam)
and don't cause much fear apart from lore...

All but the above seems either awesome or at least fully digestible.

Well on the brightside about the Abyssal staff is with orks you're getting AP1 wounds often on a 3+

Tau looks like a lot of 2+ and 3+

Dark Eldar looks like mostly 4+

Eldar looks like 5+ :(

Other Crons 6+

Nids are all over the board but it looks like Termagaunt and Hormagaunt spam gets blow away on a 2+ Hell, you get to knock Carnifexes on their asses on a 3+

Daemons are 6+ :(

CSM looks like 50/50 on 5+ and 6+ :(

Grey Knights are also a equal toss up between 5+ and 6+ :(

IG 4+

Average Space Marine (minus named characters) 4+

so all in all an S8 against Leadership AP 1 flamer really isn't that bad, especially since you'd probably mostly use it against hordes which tend NOT to have an invulnerable save

Dont orks have mob rule and thus have leadership 10?

Lamo wrote:Dont orks have mob rule and thus have leadership 10?

Yes, so long as there's 10 or more orks in a mob. Unless the rule is against the unit's unmodified leadership, then it won't work on most ork units

Just Dave wrote:
But why rending? There's other, more suitable ways of changing them to be better in close combat. I agree, they need to be better in close combat, but I don't see the justification behind rending other than seeking a suitably powerful fix-it button to make a unit good in close combat.
Terror/visage, preferred enemy, higher initiative, better infiltration are all more suitable ways of fixing it, and then others too.

Because, IMO rending is not overpowered because it is not an automatic wound. You still need to roll a 6 to wound to get the effects. Anything else and it is a normal attack. So when you roll and you do get that 6 its a happy suprise bonus!

Luke_Prowler wrote:

Lamo wrote:Dont orks have mob rule and thus have leadership 10?

Yes, so long as there's 10 or more orks in a mob. Unless the rule is against the unit's unmodified leadership, then it won't work on most ork units

That's not how Mob Rule works. Orks can choose to use the number of orks in the unit instead of their leadership. Over 11 models they become fearless. There's no note on the Abyssal staff that I can see that mentions how fearless models are affected. The rule on in does, however, say "the target's leadership" not "the target unit's leadership", which may mean mob rule wouldn't come into play.

So I would presume it's against base leadership (though if this was the case it would have been nice for GW to state in the first place). This is pretty muddy water, however, and I expect will be the subject of a GW FAQ in due course !


Automatically Appended Next Post:

lowmanjason wrote:

Just Dave wrote:
But why rending? There's other, more suitable ways of changing them to be better in close combat. I agree, they need to be better in close combat, but I don't see the justification behind rending other than seeking a suitably powerful fix-it button to make a unit good in close combat.
Terror/visage, preferred enemy, higher initiative, better infiltration are all more suitable ways of fixing it, and then others too.

Because, IMO rending is not overpowered because it is not an automatic wound. You still need to roll a 6 to wound to get the effects. Anything else and it is a normal attack. So when you roll and you do get that 6 its a happy suprise bonus!

Flayed ones need Something to make them viable. As they're not fearless and have I2 with 4+ save, they can easily lose an assault and then almost certainly lose any I roll off if they fail morale, and they get wiped out.

Real game example: unit of 10 assault Fuegan (i7 a4) - lose 3 models, fail to wound (2+ save and FNP) despite 28 attacks, roll 8 for morale, Feugan rolls anything but a 1 and the flayed ones are wiped out.

Now Fuegan is special, but you'd have expected he might at least have come out of the fight with at least a scratch or be tied up in CC for a turn or so!

Mob rule replaces the Ld stat on their stat line with the number of models in the unit, so 10+ is Ld10 for the template attack.

nosferatu1001 wrote:Mob rule replaces the Ld stat on their stat line with the number of models in the unit, so 10+ is Ld10 for the template attack.

The rule on it does, however, say "the target's leadership" not "the target unit's leadership", which may mean mob rule wouldn't come into play

I still think this could be argued either way - any GW staff on or asked about this one?

GW staff have absolutely no idea on rules. None. I say this married to an ex GW staff member...

the only GW staff who know anything are the studio, and even THEY get it wrong sometimes!

Mob rule allows you to replace the value at any time you want, and then it IS the targets leadership

nosferatu1001 wrote:GW staff have absolutely no idea on rules. None. I say this married to an ex GW staff member...

the only GW staff who know anything are the studio, and even THEY get it wrong sometimes!

Mob rule allows you to replace the value at any time you want, and then it IS the targets leadership

Fair enough!

I understand your point on this, (and not even saying i disagree) but still think it's ambiguous. When I first saw this war gear description of the staff I thought that though - what about fearless troops - it doesn't say whether it specifically does affect them or not. It's written in a way like it's house rules between two players who know what the boundaries/spirit of the rule were supposed to be, not a general codex entry!

It isnt a leadership test, so fearless does nothing to help you. Same as Doom

alexmann wrote:

Luke_Prowler wrote:

Lamo wrote:Dont orks have mob rule and thus have leadership 10?

Yes, so long as there's 10 or more orks in a mob. Unless the rule is against the unit's unmodified leadership, then it won't work on most ork units

That's not how Mob Rule works. Orks can choose to use the number of orks in the unit instead of their leadership. Over 11 models they become fearless. There's no note on the Abyssal staff that I can see that mentions how fearless models are affected. The rule on in does, however, say "the target's leadership" not "the target unit's leadership", which may mean mob rule wouldn't come into play.

So I would presume it's against base leadership (though if this was the case it would have been nice for GW to state in the first place). This is pretty muddy water, however, and I expect will be the subject of a GW FAQ in due course !

Don't forget that black templar have that rule as well where as long as that one guy is on the field (The Captain or marshall?) then everyone uses his leadership instead of their base leadership, so this would fall under that same Orc issue with the abyssal staff.

*Edit*
Though it appears you all are deciding it would work to the benefit of the defender (though very little else in this game does).

I like it a lot. but the new vehicles don't interest me. they are too expensive point wise IMO