Ive been collecting warhammer for nearly 7 years and the prices seem to constantly be going up. Firstly why is this, and do you think they are over priced?
Prices keep going up because of the people who let GW get away with it. If nobody had bought the PAGK at 20 pounds for 5, I can guarantee that the Immortals wouldn't have been 20 pounds for 5.
What a pointless post! Of course they're going to go up its called inflation, you don't have to collect Warhammer you choose to, its a non necessity so quit whining! If its costs to much for you just stop playing or use a 3rd parties model range.
elspedo wrote:What a pointless post! Of course they're going to go up its called inflation, you don't have to collect Warhammer you choose to, its a non necessity so quit whining! If its costs to much for you just stop playing or use a 3rd parties model range.
Wow, it didn't take long for this post to come along
But to address the first "point" you raise; the cost of GW models has risen significantly faster than inflation. The rest of your post has been addressed numerous times before, so I do not feel the need to go over it again.
GW raising their prices can be attributed to several things;
1. Overheads (stores, staffing, Warhammer World).
2. Loss of business.
To address 1. Games Workshop have loads of stores within the UK which act as places which get people into the hobby as well as for selling the products. For these stores they obviously have to pay rent, electricity & water rates, wages for staff, transporting stock to the stores & other various expenses. Then there is Warhammer World in Nottingham which must cost a fortune to run. Thats just in the UK. Then there are the stores worldwide. The costs of running the retail arm, in terms of stores, must cost them a fortune and the expenses for running a business never go down - like GW prices they just go up.
With 1. in mind we can look at 2. GW have shown a terrible knee-jerk reaction to losses in sales - the prices go up. This, however, alienates people who don't want to pay even higher prices, so GW suffers a loss of business and ups the prices once again. This in turn alienates more people. With the price rises they're driving people away from their tabletop gaming systems. Parents won't want to spend £20 on a box of 5 plastic models, plus all the glue, paints & brushes - it was hard enough for me to get my parents to buy me a box of 10 Guardsmen when I was 12 and they said £15 was expensive back then for them.
This knee-jerk reaction can be justified because if there is less money coming in they need to find more money to cover the costs of their overheads - dropping their prices would not guarantee an influx of business and could actually lose them money over time if business did not increase.
Personally I think the moment GW lower their prices & announce it loud & clear, veterans will flock back to the hobby, parents will be happier to spend money on the figures and GW could see a boom in business...but thats just my opinion.
Yes, but not as overpriced as some people say. While it may cost GW 60 cents to make a plastic sprue, I understand there are sculptors, toolers, writers, package designers, packaging workers, and shipping costs all factored into the kit. Many companies share similar prices these days. I do think that Finecast should be cheaper, considering it's a cheaper material to make/ship though.
What Sparks said but i would like to add that they changed scope from fanatics to kids; this change alienates some and as they go further down that road mroe get alienated without decent number of new guys joining to cover the loss; thus GW makes a snowball of bad business that just rolls down the hil land gets worse.
Also they seem to have mostly abandoned their original IP. The warhammer fantasy IP seems abandoned when you look at the number of Black library books being made, the rate new codex's get launched(from this year it seems like 40k got more attention all around), and that failed MMO isn't making the IP look too good(nor what EA is doing with it but that's another thread on its own), and GW dosen't seem to give a rats ass about the IP. If they did they wouldn't be letting it go like this. But because GW seems to have abandoned the WHFB IP in favor of 40k they need to raise prices a bit more to compensate for lost fantasy revenue.
Just one great big snow ball of bad business and i do not envy the person it hits when it stops.
Varrick wrote:
Also they seem to have mostly abandoned their original IP. The warhammer fantasy IP seems abandoned when you look at the number of Black library books being made, the rate new codex's get launched(from this year it seems like 40k got more attention all around), and that failed MMO isn't making the IP look too good(nor what EA is doing with it but that's another thread on its own), and GW dosen't seem to give a rats ass about the IP. If they did they wouldn't be letting it go like this. But because GW seems to have abandoned the WHFB IP in favor of 40k they need to raise prices a bit more to compensate for lost fantasy revenue.
GW is giving 40k more attention because it sells better, I don't think you can really blame them for that. Considering how 2011 has seen Ogre Kingdoms, Tomb Kings, and Storm of Magic with a whole bunch of big monsters and new terrain sets, I beg to differ.
Varrick wrote:
Also they seem to have mostly abandoned their original IP. The warhammer fantasy IP seems abandoned when you look at the number of Black library books being made, the rate new codex's get launched(from this year it seems like 40k got more attention all around), and that failed MMO isn't making the IP look too good(nor what EA is doing with it but that's another thread on its own), and GW dosen't seem to give a rats ass about the IP. If they did they wouldn't be letting it go like this. But because GW seems to have abandoned the WHFB IP in favor of 40k they need to raise prices a bit more to compensate for lost fantasy revenue.
GW is giving 40k more attention because it sells better, I don't think you can really blame them for that. Considering how 2011 has seen Ogre Kingdoms, Tomb Kings, and Storm of Magic with a whole bunch of big monsters and new terrain sets, I beg to differ.
Part of the snow balling bit. Bad choices lead to lower revenue, that leads to more bad choices, leading to lower revenue, and so on.
Brother SRM wrote:You think that OK, TK, and all those other cool new plastic kits were bad decisions?
No; i was talking about the drop in sales leading to shifting attention. It just seems like most of their attention went from fantasy to 40k instead of fixing why WHF was doing poorly.
Sparks_Havelock wrote:GW raising their prices can be attributed to several things;
1. Overheads (stores, staffing, Warhammer World).
2. Loss of business.
Varrick wrote: But because GW seems to have abandoned the WHFB IP in favor of 40k they need to raise prices a bit more to compensate for lost fantasy revenue.
Interesting that people believe GW are actually losing business at the moment if you check out the stock prices they have risen continually throughout 2011 so they must be doing something right.
elspedo wrote:Interesting that people believe GW are actually losing business at the moment if you check out the stock prices they have risen continually throughout 2011 so they must be doing something right.
And if you look at their financial reports, they are constantly selling less and less actual product each year...
elspedo wrote:Interesting that people believe GW are actually losing business at the moment if you check out the stock prices they have risen continually throughout 2011 so they must be doing something right.
Not so black & white as that, I'm afraid. If across a company the stores are consistantly failing to beat their previous years sales alarm bells begin to ring. What needs to be changed? What should they do? There's only so far they can push the staff to sell the stock so one of the other options is to raise their prices.
Stock prices for GW may well rise due to income from uses of their IP beyond the tabletop games - for example video games (we've had two this year - DoW2: Retribution & Space Marine). These may bring in additional revenue for the company but they can't rely on external uses of their IP so they have to look to their primary products, the miniatures. If they feel that the volume of sales is not bringing in enough money they can either increase the price of the product or reduce the price to entice a greater volume of sales.
Kinda wish that GW would do the latter though. Have they ever tried a price reduction on their range? Ever? Maybe they should try, instead of the age old practice of bumping prices up.
I'm not a financial analyst. There is a Dave the Blogger that did some interesting work concerning the financial state of GW, and a link to said Dave (i think it was dave) is in somebody's sig. If you are interested in the financial side of GW, find Dave, and read this post.
For the UK at least, GBP 20 today would have been worth just about GBP 15 in 2000 and just about GBP 10 in 1990. With the current average inflation rate over the last decades, prices double roughly every 15 to 20 years. Inflation however seems to be creeping upwards faster again recently.
First of all, inflation is not even. Not all things increase in price at the same rate.
Secondly, people here are saying that prices are increasing beyond the rate of inflation, which seems likely.
You even said that prices double every 15 to 20 years, whereas Games Workshop has doubled prices in 8-10 years.
As long as GW think they'll make more money by doing it, they'll keep putting prices up. It's not as if anyone else is selling little plastic soldiers, right?
Joey wrote:First of all, inflation is not even. Not all things increase in price at the same rate.
Secondly, people here are saying that prices are increasing beyond the rate of inflation, which seems likely.
You even said that prices double every 15 to 20 years, whereas Games Workshop has doubled prices in 8-10 years.
Sure enough. I am not saying inflation is the ONLY cause of all price increases.
But if you are looking at things over a fairly long time of several years, it is ONE factor.
And of course inflation rates vary. But an APPROXIMATION of about 3% per year describes it reasonably well for the UK at least.
Prices have risen out of all sync with inflation and costs in the last 6 years. 5 years ago a codex was $20, now they're $33/35. 3 years ago, 20 guardsmen were $30, now they're almost $50. 4 years ago 8 Chaos Space Marines were $25, now 10 are $35. These are nowhere near in line with inflation, costs, or customer income increases, and is making it impossible to get into a new army. For what a 1k Necron army would cost, I started up Infinity with enough models for several lists and two different Firestorm Armada fleets. It's getting to the point where Forgeworld is not so expensive anymore.
Zweischneid wrote:
Sure enough. I am not saying inflation is the ONLY cause of all price increases.
But if you are looking at things over a fairly long time of several years, it is ONE factor.
And of course inflation rates vary. But an APPROXIMATION of about 3% per year describes it reasonably well for the UK at least.
According to this website, inflation for the UK, before all this nonsense recession hit, averaged at about 2.5-3%.
Unfortunately there's no record of GW price increases, but I'd bet that they're much greater than that.
The prices on everything goes up over time. If you've been alive long enough that you think the price on something has gone up an unreasonable amount, it's less likely that is true than you are just old and nostalgic. It's how the human brain works.
DarknessEternal wrote:The prices on everything goes up over time. If you've been alive long enough that you think the price on something has gone up an unreasonable amount, it's less likely that is true than you are just old and nostalgic. It's how the human brain works.
Actually it isn't just nostalgia. If prices go up on eveything steadily, they grow exponentially. Hence the video above. The older you get (and thus the farther you look back in retrospective), the "greater" the more recent price increases appear in comparison to those of your youth, as the steady increase year by year (or month by month or whatever) has led to an ever steeper "growth" in absolute terms even if the "inflation-adjusted-value" remains the same (which hasn't for GW on top of it, exaggerating the perception further).
Vaktathi wrote:Prices have risen out of all sync with inflation and costs in the last 6 years. 5 years ago a codex was $20, now they're $33/35. 3 years ago, 20 guardsmen were $30, now they're almost $50. 4 years ago 8 Chaos Space Marines were $25, now 10 are $35. These are nowhere near in line with inflation, costs, or customer income increases, and is making it impossible to get into a new army. For what a 1k Necron army would cost, I started up Infinity with enough models for several lists and two different Firestorm Armada fleets. It's getting to the point where Forgeworld is not so expensive anymore.
Sadly, those 20 guardsmen are just shy of $60, not $50. I'm ok with reasonable price increases when the models are new, higher quality sculpts than their predecessors. But the guardsmen and fantasy Orc style changes are absolute insults to customers. That's where my line is drawn
DarknessEternal wrote:The prices on everything goes up over time. If you've been alive long enough that you think the price on something has gone up an unreasonable amount, it's less likely that is true than you are just old and nostalgic. It's how the human brain works.
Actually it isn't just nostalgia.
Look over there...it's the point you missed.
If you think prices are too high now compared to the past, it's because you're old.
For the UK at least, GBP 20 today would have been worth just about GBP 15 in 2000 and just about GBP 10 in 1990. With the current average inflation rate over the last decades, prices double roughly every 15 to 20 years. Inflation however seems to be creeping upwards faster again recently.
I first got into the hobby in the early 90s and its a cold fact gw prices have increased far far faster than inflation.
In the early 90s a skeleton army box cost £10 for 1 chariot 8 horsemen and 30 infantry.
The horsemen and infantry sculpts used then are the same ones used for tomb king to this day (admitedly with some extra ornamentation now but the actual skeleton is the same sculpt and the horses exactly the same in entirity but again mroe ornamentation for the riders)
Whats the cost of these today? £60 and thats without the chariot.
the price hasnt doubled, or trippled or even quadrupled, its increased by 500% in the same time inflation has increased maybe 200%
DarknessEternal wrote:The prices on everything goes up over time. If you've been alive long enough that you think the price on something has gone up an unreasonable amount, it's less likely that is true than you are just old and nostalgic. It's how the human brain works.
Actually it isn't just nostalgia.
Look over there...it's the point you missed.
If you think prices are too high now compared to the past, it's because you're old.
Except that, relative to income levels and inflation, GW's prices are rising faster, thus yes, their prices are higher now than they used to be.
GW was never cheap, this is and always has been a luxury hobby, but they are rapidly approaching a limit where they're going to price themselves out of the market for new entrants, especially with armies being cheaper per model (in points) and army sizes increasing every few years with per model costs rising rapidly. I remember being able to buy blister models like Havocs just a few years ago for $9, now they're $14, a 50% price increase where inflation and metals costs combined definitely has not been 50% in 5 years. Guardsmen were $30 for 20 back then, now they're $25 for 10. There's a very real absolute price increase for GW product.
Its 29.00 for a box of ten guardsmen(i swear last week it was 35 but i may be slightly delirious) so with sales tax 20 guardsmen would cost over 60 dollars But less than 65 depending on region.
Varrick wrote: Its 29.00 for a box of ten guardsmen(i swear last week it was 35 but i may be slightly delirious) so with sales tax 20 guardsmen would cost over 60 dollars But less than 65 depending on region.
I just went and checked that.
The only most accurate depiction of my reaction can only be expressed thusly...
They manipulate things in other ways; by removing half the contents of a box.
Guardsmen used to be 20 for £18, then they halved the contents and charged, £12, then £15 and now £18.
So they've doubled in price in how long? When were cadians last sold 20 to a box? Not that long ago surely.
Catachans were released 20 for £10 for 3rd edition, their codex was printed in 2000, I've just checked. That means they've gone from 50p to £1.80 inside 12 years. That's an increase of 260% in 12 years.
Now using that nice video from the previous page, we can see that means a doubling time of 4.6 years requiring an inflation rate of 15.2%. 15% isn't actually that far off what we've seen of recent GW price increases with finecast or that put on boxsets.
Now I don't know about anyone else, but I've looked out the window and I'm not living in Zimbabwe. The UK does not have an inflation rate anywhere near this level.
GW are overpriced in two ways. Firstly, they are more expensive compared to pretty much all other manufacturers and seem to be incapable of making their larger scale of production work for them. Yes they have a lot of shops which carry overheads, but if you are not benefiting from economy of scale then you're doing something wrong. Secondly they are expensive in absolute terms. You simply do not get enough product for your money any more, especially when they put up prices when switching to an inferior material. You pay a lot of money for very little physical product.
Howard A Treesong wrote:They manipulate things in other ways; by removing half the contents of a box.
Guardsmen used to be 20 for £18, then they halved the contents and charged, £12, then £15 and now £18.
So they've doubled in price in how long? When were cadians last sold 20 to a box?
Two and half years ago
GW are overpriced in two ways. Firstly, they are more expensive compared to pretty much all other manufacturers and seem to be incapable of making their larger scale of production work for them. Yes they have a lot of shops which carry overheads, but if you are not benefiting from economy of scale then you're doing something wrong. Secondly they are expensive in absolute terms. You simply do not get enough product for your money any more, especially when they put up prices when switching to an inferior material. You pay a lot of money for very little physical product.
Indeed, and that's why it's very difficult to argue that GW is not actively becoming more and more expensive.
For the UK at least, GBP 20 today would have been worth just about GBP 15 in 2000 and just about GBP 10 in 1990. With the current average inflation rate over the last decades, prices double roughly every 15 to 20 years. Inflation however seems to be creeping upwards faster again recently.
Great video thanks a lot, great to expain it to others.
Of course they're over priced. I mean look when they were metal models, compare those models to Reaper miniatures, I always found the Reaper miniatures to be a lot more cleaner and detailed than GW's, yet cost $6-9, not $20-$30, it's because you're paying for a rule set.
And GW wont ever change until they run themselves into the ground, which lets all face it wont happen as long as we can still scrounge enough hard earned coin together to get bent over by them. I for one was going to start 2 new armys with the necron release, now? Not a chance im gonna ebay for my Orks a bit here and there but im out. Shame too i enjoyed it
The price rises IMO are largely due to GW being able to get away with them. GW has a very large fanbase that are willing to pay whatever price for GW products which in turn has kep GW afloat. Recent sales data seems to suggest a steady decline which makes me wonder what GW will be like in 5 years.
candy.man wrote:The price rises IMO are largely due to GW being able to get away with them. GW has a very large fanbase that are willing to pay whatever price for GW products which in turn has kep GW afloat. Recent sales data seems to suggest a steady decline which makes me wonder what GW will be like in 5 years.
I'd say look another 10 years forward - after all, GW has lost about 1/3 of it's sales over the past ten years. My guess is that the current owners will keep issuing dividends, until they can sell off their stock quickly before running the company fully into the ground.
I've stopped buying/playing GW games myself - about 7 months clean - but I think that the company will really start to take a dive once the Tactical Squad hits $50 USD.
Well they're $37.25 so probably 5 years maximum before they hit $50, maybe sooner.
Ktulhut wrote:Lol, a tactical squad here in New Zealand costs 73 dollars. And our dollar is hovering in between 75~83 US cents.
Yeh, although weaker than the AUD the NZ prices are basically a preview of what the next price increase will be like for Australian prices anyway. Or at least were a couple years ago they seemed to have spread out a little more. Though people seem to forget about them and go mostly for the Australian prices; both are bad.
When I was young and naive I was so excited for the plastic dreadnought.
In my mind I thought "A box of marines is about $25 (at the time) while the metal ones are like $8 for 2. So the new dread should be like $30 down from $35. But, they do have more weapon options so they might just be $35 still."
When I first started 40k a few years ago, Ghazkhull Thrakka (however you spell it) was £12-£15, and you could get 16 orks in one box for next to nothing.
The Necron Destroyer Lord was £15.50, as soon as the codex is released he goes up £5 with no conversion to finecast or anything...
The list goes on.
And yet, GW continue raising the prices because we never stop buying their products!
If you don't live in the Southern Hemisphere, you have nothing to complain about, seriously, if you want something that warrants complaint, look at what we get charged for the same product.
CrimsonPrime wrote:If you don't live in the Southern Hemisphere, you have nothing to complain about, seriously, if you want something that warrants complaint, look at what we get charged for the same product.
Just because you get ripped off for twice as much, doesn't mean everyone else isn't getting ripped off
CrimsonPrime wrote:If you don't live in the Southern Hemisphere, you have nothing to complain about, seriously, if you want something that warrants complaint, look at what we get charged for the same product.
That's like saying "don't complain about that lost hand, I lost the whole arm." Yes we get it, you live in the southern hemisphere and things really suck. that doesn't mean that other places aren't also getting priced out of affordability as well.
I do not find the prices for GW products high, you just need to shop around. Plus I guess cost of living where I am is higher so we don't get hit as bad plus I do not need to pay VAT so thats basically a 20% discount on everything buy
If you don't want to buy from GW buy from others that will give you a discount. Hell buy in bulk, gather few friends and place a big order and request a discount. Don't ask don't get, normally I do my orders in least £500+ orders and shop I use will give me a discount due to big order and conitous use.
Yeah cos spending £500 on toys is a really viable option for everyone
Not saying you are wrong to do so yourself, but not everyone is able to do as you
But even so, it still does not address the fact that GW prices are excessive. Someone mention the dreadnaught.
When I saw the price of that for the first time I laughed.
Most people still pay MSRP, whether it's impulse buys, no access to a credit card, local shop support (for those with indies), etc.
Also, today's online prices are still basically only a couple years behind the curve, 20% off a codex now is still about a third more than what they cost at the closing end of 4th edition.
I’m going to agree with Vaktathi in that the online retailers don’t really offer that much of a discount from the RRP and even still its damn expensive.
In the 11 years I’ve been collecting wargaming miniatures, I’ve learnt that no matter where you shop (GW, FLGS, online) the prices are always more or less within RRP. Sure you can shave off a few dollars depending on where you shop but you can’t really “shop around” with wargaming like you can with non wargaming products.
Certainly overpriced, but then again I love my plastic crack. I still can't believe assault marines are $33 for 5 figs and doesn't even come with all the bits I need to field them how I like.
prices seem to constantly be going up. Firstly why is this
Prices go up because...
...wait for it...
...prices go up over time. This is neither new or interesting.
Does GW overprice it's products? Perhaps. However, these are luxury items so this shouldn't be a surprise in any case.
If they overprice anything, I would say it's a case-by-case basis.
prices seem to constantly be going up. Firstly why is this
Prices go up because...
...wait for it...
...prices go up over time. This is neither new or interesting.
Does GW overprice it's products? Perhaps. However, these are luxury items so this shouldn't be a surprise in any case.
If they overprice anything, I would say it's a case-by-case basis.
K say case by case, person by person, how much more can you let GW raise their price according to been luxury items?
Land Raider was like $50, then $55, $62, $66
will be ok with it been $72? how about $79? Perhaps $85?
Im just curious to how much average dakkite will pay up to... so just give me a number xD
prices seem to constantly be going up. Firstly why is this
Prices go up because...
...wait for it...
...prices go up over time. This is neither new or interesting.
Does GW overprice it's products? Perhaps. However, these are luxury items so this shouldn't be a surprise in any case.
If they overprice anything, I would say it's a case-by-case basis.
K say case by case, person by person, how much more can you let GW raise their price according to been luxury items?
Land Raider was like $50, then $55, $62, $66
will be ok with it been $72? how about $79? Perhaps $85?
Im just curious to how much average dakkite will pay up to... so just give me a number xD
They can continue to raise their prices until we're no longer willing to pay them.
LunaHound wrote:I know, and i just want to know up to what price are you willing to accept for a Land Raider.
Theory we all know, im interested in your number :>
In Australian dollars, if it comes out to about $100 at a 20% off RRP online retailer, that would be my absolute limit. So something in the vicinity of $120 AUD at retail price is my absolute limit, I think.
Well, for all the moaning down under, GW does sell Landraiders for AUS$ 110,- from their own shop and Australia presumably isn't a loss-making country for them.
So, with incremental changes, they can probably raise prices for a Landraider to ~ US$ 110 in the states,- or ~ GBP 65,- in the UK, without fear of pricing more people out of the hobby then they would make up for with higher margins.
Zweischneid wrote:So, with incremental changes, they can probably raise prices for a Landraider to ~ US$ 110 in the states,- or ~ GBP 65,- in the UK, without fear of pricing more people out of the hobby then they would make up for with higher margins.
At that point it'd be cheaper to buy straight from Forgeworld.
I'm certain this would have been said in the last 3 pages, but I only skimmed through.
Yes GW products are expensive, but they're a non-essential hobby product, if you can't afford/aren't willing to pay for them the answer is simple....don't buy them.
Yesterday, for the first time ever, I did come across something that's crossed my line for what I'd be willing to pay though. £41 for a Monolith is disgusting, and that's coming from the guy who has a decent sized Dark Eldar Beastmaster unit made entirely from the oficial GW metal models
The luxury item excuse It will be bloody Porsches next
Airfix kits, for example, could also be considered a luxury item, but still manage to represent good value for money.
Why do people insist on trotting out the "don't buy" comment? Do you think that we haven't already considered that for ourselves and put it into practice already?
I've just been informed that the Uk prices are due to rise and so have quit both 40k and WHFB, I mean I will play them with what I have, but I sure as hell won't be buying anymore.
Flames is another over expensive game... for the same amount of money asked for two Panthers I can buy at least four more from another dealer that has BETTER models. These guys (FoW) are people who ran away from Games Workshop but have learnt how to make profit.
There are a LOT of other companies that makes games and miniatures.
KOS wrote:Flames is another over expensive game... for the same amount of money asked for two Panthers I can buy at least four more from another dealer that has BETTER models. These guys (FoW) are people who ran away from Games Workshop but have learnt how to make profit.
There are a LOT of other companies that makes games and miniatures.
But the good thing about Flames is that there's no 'you can only use our miniatures' mentality - and there are plenty of other 15mm WWII miniatures makers out there.
DarknessEternal wrote:This is the Digital Age; no one pays MSRP.
This has been my motto for all of my purchasing decisions. I never buy MSRP for anything. I find it to be a dead concept with the Internet around.
Me too.
Why should I pay $12 MSRP now when I can wait 2 years and pay $40 for that figure? Or not even wait and pay a scalper $25 for it! Or pre-order it for $16.99!
Man the internet's such a great invention!
Seriously, people who think GW is expensive need to stay away from other hobbies, especially ones involving shortpacks and internet retailers raising prices for higher demand products and things going OOP regularly on TOP of inflation.
Just my take on the fantasy situation here but OK, TK, and SoM...
OK and TK aren't exactly the most popular armies, and SoM is simply a supplement that won't live outside of personal use and some tournies (I may be wrong on the tournies but I've never heard of an official one to use it yet).
Had they released new stuff for a more popular army like high elves/dwarves/empire then they might have seen better profits.
Also, a friend told me that over here in the states 40k is the most popular, while across the pond fantasy is the king. Not sure if it adds anything to this or not, still interesting to know.
Seriously, people who think GW is expensive need to stay away from other hobbies, especially ones involving shortpacks and internet retailers raising prices for higher demand products and things going OOP regularly on TOP of inflation.
okay wilco! I will just have listening to GW excuses on the internet as a hobby
Costs nowt with plenty to spout
Chibi Bodge-Battle wrote:
Airfix kits, for example, could also be considered a luxury item, but still manage to represent good value for money.
Airfix kits, for example, also use quite a few old molds and have to be priced competitively because they're not the only one producing kits of the items in question.
Kanluwen wrote:Airfix kits, for example, also use quite a few old molds and have to be priced competitively because they're not the only one producing kits of the items in question.
On the other hand they sell highly detailed plastic kits, some with hundreds of pieces for significantly less (depending on the kit) than the comparable GW kit. So whilst competition drives prices down - it is not as if Airfix are the only company with old moulds. I don't see GW reducing the price of models using prehistoric moulds, for example. This kind of invalidates any point you were trying to make to be honest
Nobody has mentioned that GW have managed to hike prices twice in the UK this year. When our VAT rate rose to 20% from 17.5% they added a generous extra slug on top. IIRC a unit of dire avangers was supposed to go up 50p but I think it went up by £1+, then they stuck on another rise when Finecast came out. This is shameless and frankly silly.
Surely they would do better with a price drop right now, or even a freeze. Announce a freeze now for 12 months and I'll bet that would keep a lot happy. However, I fear yet another 15-20% rise with 6th Ed at the start of next summer.
This is a simple matter of economics. Anyone in a 'normal' job now with a home and family is being squeezed and squeezed hard: food, utilities, clothes, etc all shooting up. The cash is simply not there to cover these rises, so GW will continue to sell less and less in terms of amount and prop it up with price rises. The type of people who can dedicate their lives to this and pour every penny of disposable cash into GW - good luck to them but they are a small group in such a massive business.
Another thing that has been missed is that if they reduce production as sales fall they will face increasing costs as their economies of scale shrink. They will have to pay more for materials, etc as they negotiate on smaller contracts. This will cause them problems, they would probably be better to keep up sales by price cuts than chase an ever falling sales model that locks them into a spiral of increasing costs.
Also they have got into China now and stereotyping aside the Chinese are well-known for a relaxed attitude to pirate products. If GW catches on I would expect to see a rash of cheap pirate versions appearing on e-bay and being unstoppable.
Chibi Bodge-Battle wrote:I was thinking of their more recent offerings.
Whereas GW have nothing but freshly cut moulds?
Airfix, like many model makers which do military stuff, will buy the old moulds from companies which have gone out of business or retool moulds slightly. There are some Airfix kits in production now which are no different than the ones my dad built while he was in college during the 70s.
GW aren't the only mini makers if you open your eyes to other possibilities. Yeah I know GW tournies etc
You really don't understand the context.
Games Workshop are the only ones who can produce Games Workshop models. They are the only ones who can produce a Cadian Guardsman and call it that.
Airfix can't "claim" anything except the sculpt itself as "its property". It's why you'll see small variations between the same subject when done by two different manufacturers.
SilverMK2 wrote:On the other hand they sell highly detailed plastic kits, some with hundreds of pieces for significantly less (depending on the kit) than the comparable GW kit.
Yes, some of which include rivets and other small pieces which are molded directly onto the sprue's frame(as in the bordering bits).
So whilst competition drives prices down - it is not as if Airfix are the only company with old moulds. I don't see GW reducing the price of models using prehistoric moulds, for example.
Yeaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah...if you really want to go there, I'd suggest understanding the circumstances of military modeling kits.
Many of these kits are in production for decades upon decades, with very minor retoolings over the years.
Can you find any GWplastic kits which are like that? I bet you will find maybe very few, especially considering the Leman Russ and Chimeras were redone recently.
This kind of invalidates any point you were trying to make to be honest
Not really, but if you think so that's great.
Chibi Bodge-Battle wrote:Model kits tend to have more, different sprue trees in a box.
Usually they're laid out similar to the way Games Workshop's newer, big kits have been: with as little wasted space as possible.
AFAIK the more sprues you need the cost of production increases exponentially. Given the cost of tooling this makes sense.
The more sprues you need, the higher the cost of production increases.
What the big offset is if you're manufacturing in-house or not; and I'm not entirely sure if Airfix does or not.
36 “Master, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?”
37 Jesus replied: “‘Love ye the Lord your GW with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’ 38 This is the first and greatest commandment. 39 And the second is like: ‘Useth ye not the false idols that are not the Lord our GW's ’ 40 All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.”
Err, luna, 88% of respondents are saying yes, they are over priced. The poll is more accurate than the thread itself, which contains both much whining and much fanboyism.
Ktulhut wrote:Err, luna, 88% of respondents are saying yes, they are over priced. The poll is more accurate than the thread itself, which contains both much whining and much fanboyism.
I think that they were overpriced when I started, but now it's just ridiculous, but to be fair on them, the economy is a pile of s**t at the minute, everything is going up in price, and hell that's very annoying as well! but as well, GW can and do get away with rising prices so easily that they practically have the power to charge a model that cost like 50p to make, and sell it off for £40, its just stupid now.
Personally, I agree, the game is overpriced, but, as some highly intelligent people suggested earlier in this thread, buy online, or from a LFGS that isn't a GW, or anything that has discount pricing. That's where i'm getting my stuff. That, and a friend who is slightly flavour of the month in his play style.
nkon117 wrote:Personally, I agree, the game is overpriced, but, as some highly intelligent people suggested earlier in this thread, buy online, or from a LFGS that isn't a GW, or anything that has discount pricing. That's where i'm getting my stuff. That, and a friend who is slightly flavour of the month in his play style.
That just makes them slightly cheaper. To even attempt to bring prices back into line with inflation they would need to cut all prices in half, which of course they would never do.
in about 15 years inflation has increased maybe 150% but gw prices have increased 400%+
