48860
Post by: Joey
Didn't see one of these around, so here goes.
Cosmetic Changes
*re-name CCS and PSS. Preferably to Lieutenant (which is pronounced leftenant, btw). and Captain. There's something sterile about "Platoon Commander".
*non-Mongolian Rough Riders. Seriously. They suck.
Rules Changes
*Make veterans more veterany. Bump WS and maybe I by one, with a points increase, maybe up to 100/squad
*Let stormtroopers be stormtroopers. They should have some kind of Trench Gun (12" Assault 2 S4 AP- Rending) and bayonets, or at least the option to take them like that.
*Nerf CCS combat abilities to make the Lord Commissar more attractive for close combat
*Make preists available as squad upgrade, like Commissar but for veterans/stormtroopers
*Ogryns should be a few points cheaper
*Let sargents have lasguns
*Lower platoon command squad price by 10 points
Anyone else?
46864
Post by: Deadshot
Not Cruddace's name on the inside cover.
34243
Post by: Blacksails
Deadshot wrote:Not Cruddace's name on the inside cover.
This is insightful and inspired. Truly a post that contributes to what could be a very good thread.
/sarcasm
Most of the changes are alright. I'd like to see priest as upgrades for infantry squads as well, which would allow them to not be singled out in combat. Also, cheaper priests.
I'd like to see rough rider platoons. There, I said it. Make it so that by taking a special command squad upgrade, rough riders become troop choice. I don't even like rough riders all that much, but that would make them hilarious and awesome.
34666
Post by: jdjamesdean@mail.com
I loved the Codex as a whole and thought it was written quite well. Mind you I always wanted to play an army that can sit back and shoot,shoot,shoot some more, than assault with a 40 Guard strong blob
11427
Post by: JourneyPsycheOut
Limit the amount of special weapons on veterans and Command Squads to 2. Increase Chimera side armor to 11 and increase cost to 65. Allow vendettas and valkyries fire all weapons at cruising speed but increase cost by 30 points. Make their one shot missiles not suck or be one shot. Remove vendetta transport capability, but give them heavy bolter sponsons standard. (Turn them into a gunship role only.) Make hyrda turret a single weapon but increase cost by 15. Improve leman russ punisher, eradicator turret weapons. Make punisher str. 6 ap - 36" range. Make eradicator str. 5 AP 3. Increase executioner cost by another 10-15 points. Add a drawback that reduces an combined platoons ld. for orders by 1 for each squad over 1 in the combined platoon due to increased difficulty of organizing a large mob. Have each vox caster in the squad reduce this penalty by 1. Vox casters no longer allow rerolls but double the range of orders if both the command squad and ordered squad have one. Make stormtroopers about 13 points and change their hot shot lasguns to str. 4 ap - 18" assault 2. Give penal legionairres a suicide ability. Should a penal legionaire squad remain in combat at the end of any assault phase after pile in moves are made, the imperial guard player may choose to sacrifice the unit for the emperor. Each model friend or foe takes a str.4 ap - hit for each penal legionaire it is in base contact with then immediately remove the penal legionaire unit as casualties. If any characters are attached to the unit, this ability may not be used.
47467
Post by: The Mad Tanker
Make rough rider lances work the first round they charge of every combat and increasd points to compensate.
Give sergents the options to take lasguns.
24443
Post by: Blitza da warboy
Stronger rough riders, ratlings, and Ogryns; Nerf the rest of the units.
Maybe a new biker unit?
45190
Post by: Remulus
Good luck waiting for a new Imperial Guard codex.
And I hear a-lot of people say the current one is pretty op anyway.
25467
Post by: eyebone
Stormtroopers-
increasing stormtroopers to a 3+ armor save, but possible add more points to them. I feel they are over all a great unit just either reduce the cost or increase armor saves.
Rattlings-
Id honestly like to see rattlings used on list more often, they never seem to be fielded anymore. I ended up parting mine out on eBay. Possible to give a increased WS or either make their guns have a twin-linked rule.
Ogryn-
Same idea as stormtroopers, increased armor save, or heck just add another wound point. Also I love the special character Nork Deddog but hes way to over priced, I think if his cost was reduced to 90 I would field him more often.
Commissar Yarrick-
For the love of god this character needs +1 to strength. I mean honestly hes holding a ork power claw hes got to be stronger than a rating of three.... Overall I like this character hes just needs a little tweaking to cost, strength, and possible add a power weapon?
Sargent Bastone -
This guy barley hits the fields, just leave him the way he is just give him another wound point
Mogul Kamir-
Another great character that just never sees battle. I think its fair he has a rage rule however I feel that you should have to role each turn to see if he becomes enraged, then from that point rage applies for his entirety of the game. (possible add more points to the unit if he gains this ability)
Lord Commissar-
This unit is hopeless... just rid him from the codex and add in either special character commissars, or give commissars the ability to add specific items that he has choice of.
50603
Post by: StormForged
Give sergeants lasguns.
Drop Orders and re-introduce Doctrines.
Re-Introduce Colonel-Commissar Gaunt
Re-Introduce Colonel Schaffer
Drop Combined Squads for Infantry Squads
Drop Priests
Drop the Primaris Psyker
Reduce the Ordnance Barrage minimum range for the Basilisk, Manticore, and Colossus to 12"
Drop the Leman Russ Punisher, Eradicator, and Exterminator
Introduce Support Vehicles as Vehicle Squadron Upgrade for Leman Russes and Artillery
Two of the Vendetta Twin-Linked Las Cannons are not longer Twin-Linked, only the Las Cannon on the Nose of the Skimmer remains Twin-Linked.
Introduce two advisors: Munitorum Quartermaster: Allowing all Guard Infantry to double their grenade count (frag, krak, and melta) at no additional cost and the TechAdept: Allowing any immobilized vehicle, in lieu of shooting during the shooting phase, to repair their Immobilized rezult on the D6 roll of a 6. Each cost 30 Points.
47138
Post by: AnomanderRake
Valkyries as Dedicated Transports for Stormtroopers/Veterans.
48860
Post by: Joey
StormForged wrote:Give sergeants lasguns.
Drop Orders and re-introduce Doctrines.
Re-Introduce Colonel-Commissar Gaunt
Re-Introduce Colonel Schaffer
Drop Combined Squads for Infantry Squads
Drop Priests
Drop the Primaris Psyker
Reduce the Ordnance Barrage minimum range for the Basilisk, Manticore, and Colossus to 12"
Drop the Leman Russ Punisher, Eradicator, and Exterminator
Introduce Support Vehicles as Vehicle Squadron Upgrade for Leman Russes and Artillery
Two of the Vendetta Twin-Linked Las Cannons are not longer Twin-Linked, only the Las Cannon on the Nose of the Skimmer remains Twin-Linked.
Introduce two advisors: Munitorum Quartermaster: Allowing all Guard Infantry to double their grenade count (frag, krak, and melta) at no additional cost and the TechAdept: Allowing any immobilized vehicle, in lieu of shooting during the shooting phase, to repair their Immobilized rezult on the D6 roll of a 6. Each cost 30 Points.
I agree with most of this. Why the aversion to "Lord Commissar", though? As he is now he's useless, but with a point reduction and, say, Furious Charge special ability, he'd be pretty cool.
Also what do you mean by "Drop Combined Squads for Infantry Squads"? You mean just remove the ability to combine squads?
46371
Post by: Vendetta 476
@StormForged
What do you mean double the grenade count? The grenades apply throughout the entire game don't they?
47598
Post by: motyak
@Vendetta
You got it, they have them all game. Maybe a munitorium guy could make one tank a turn twin-linked or something because they have so much spare ammo...I dunno
21696
Post by: sluggaslugga
Vox increases order limit to that squad by 12''
Stormtroopers should get Demolition Charges
Track Guard as an upgrade for tanks (if you don't know what it is, it's a DKOK codex tank upgrade for 20pts and ignores immobilise results on a 4+)
upgradeable side armour for chimera at the cost of movement speed.
Twin-Linked Heavy stubbers for LRBT sponsons
Artillery spotters as an upgrade for infantry squads
50603
Post by: StormForged
motyak wrote:@Vendetta
You got it, they have them all game. Maybe a munitorium guy could make one tank a turn twin-linked or something because they have so much spare ammo...I dunno
I worded that wrong; the intention was to allow them to throw 2 grenades instead of one. The only problem with twin-linking a tank is that it's ammunition and armament is more leadning towards the Adeptus Mechanicus. Maybe the Munitorum Clerk can do what I had originally thought of: Allowing one Platoon Infantry Squad or Veteran Squad to shoot twice in the same shooting phase. Joey wrote:I agree with most of this. Why the aversion to "Lord Commissar", though? As he is now he's useless, but with a point reduction and, say, Furious Charge special ability, he'd be pretty cool.
Also what do you mean by "Drop Combined Squads for Infantry Squads"? You mean just remove the ability to combine squads?
Because he's an independent character. That's his worst attribute on him. A T3 Independent Character that can be singled out in Close Combat is really bad. Remove the ability to combine squads completely. That's why you have the option of taking Conscripts. On that note, you should be able to take a Commissar in the Conscript Platoon for every 10 models for 25 pts and have access to Wargear. For every 5 models, Conscripts should be able to take a Flamer or Grenade Launcher for 2pts per model.
19312
Post by: odorofdeath
Stormtroopers as Troops by taking a SC, Sentinels as Elites and/or Fast Attack a la 4th Ed. Carnifexes, and Ogryns cost 10 points less.
46864
Post by: Deadshot
When I said I didn't want Cruddace's name on the cover, I meant it. He writes such bad codexes. Either they are monstrous, and easily become the best, if not one of, armies, (IG)
Or they become mediocre and boring. Basically GEQ toughness m,arines with a lot of Flamer options, and cost 10 points less per squad.
Or they are down graded majorly, and are uncompetetive, IE Nids.
37044
Post by: Ridealgh
Manticores having better AP.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
AP4 is just not enough
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Especiall for S 10.
AP2 or AP3 would be better
28444
Post by: DarknessEternal
Vendettas increased to 170 points. Chimeras increased to 75 points.
Ogryns allowed to buy non-independent Commisars.
18567
Post by: CadianXV
Vulture Gunships added.
Stormtroopers gaining improved Hellguns.
Heavy weapon squads as a Heavy Support Choice, in addition to being part of a platoon.
34243
Post by: Blacksails
StormForged wrote:
Remove the ability to combine squads completely.
Why!? That's probably one of the coolest, fluffiest, and best choices for a foot IG army! Its far from broken and works flawlessly.
Also, Deadshot, IG is a strong, yet balanced codex with good fluff (nothing exciting) and a good selection of units that all fill a role. Very few units in the Guard codex are useless, and its not broken OP.
Tyranids were a very solid army until Dark Eldar, and then Grey Knights came along with poisoned weapons and insta-gibbing force weapons. No fault of Cruddace.
And Sisters are a weird mini-dex, and they deserve a full codex, which I would more than likely be significantly more awesome.
50603
Post by: StormForged
Blacksails wrote:StormForged wrote:
Remove the ability to combine squads completely.
Why!? That's probably one of the coolest, fluffiest, and best choices for a foot IG army! Its far from broken and works flawlessly.
Because Combined Squads replace the need for taking Conscripts. The Imperial Guard is know to field thousands of Conscripts within a single battle and lose all of them, however, such is not the case in this Codex. You replace the option of Conscripts with a mob of uniform Troopers with a single Commissar, so its far from being considered 'Fluffy'.
Drop Combined Squads and give Conscripts the ability to take Commissars and a couple special weapons to make Conscripts a worth while investment and synergize better within the platoon.
34243
Post by: Blacksails
StormForged wrote:Blacksails wrote:StormForged wrote:
Remove the ability to combine squads completely.
Why!? That's probably one of the coolest, fluffiest, and best choices for a foot IG army! Its far from broken and works flawlessly.
Because Combined Squads replace the need for taking Conscripts. The Imperial Guard is know to field thousands of Conscripts within a single battle and lose all of them, however, such is not the case in this Codex. You replace the option of Conscripts with a mob of uniform Troopers with a single Commissar, so its far from being considered 'Fluffy'.
Drop Combined Squads and give Conscripts the ability to take Commissars and a couple special weapons to make Conscripts a worth while investment and synergize better within the platoon.
Conscripts being broken and useless does not necessitate the removal of combined squads. Combined squads are indeed very fluffy and are a must to represent armies like DKoK, Cadians, Mordians and Valhallans. Otherwise there be no valid way of representing a solid mass of trained guardsmen. Conscripts need help, yes I agree, but removing combined squads, one of the best rules in the book, is not the answer you're looking for. A drop in price, 1 in 10 special weapons, and a purchasable commissar would go a long way to making conscripts viable.
Leave my combined squads alone.
51205
Post by: UrsoerTheSquid
First of all I think that vets, should have a WS of 4 and a BS of 3, it makes more sense that the experienced soldiers will be better in close combat, also i'd like to see heavy weapon squads be able to take VOX's, Yarrik's bale eye should give him a 4th attack and not just count as his thrid, and although this is very unlikely i'd like to see the las gun made 18" Assult 2 as opposed to rapid fire 24" it would be very nice to be able to shoot and then charge.
46835
Post by: Totalwar1402
What else is there? A baneblade entry with all varients?
They already have every kind of unit imaginable and the majority of them inc most tank varients have models.
I could perhaps see longer range hellguns since they are a touch of a glass cannon at that range. But, no, no power armour. Power armour would detract from the humanity of the guard as its associated with warriors of legend (space marines) and isn't general issue like carapace armour. The guard are meant to be pretty close to a 20th century army in theme n organization (most of them) and spec ops wearing holy relics doesn't mesh well. SoB are not themed as a regular army they are meant to be OTT and so get power armour.
* Vendetta up in points
* Lemman russ varients down in price
* basilisk down in price
* Conscripts new special rule, if allied unit within 12'' of conscripts then conscripts gain 'fearless' as their own troops shoot any retreating conscripts (represented by the 'no retreat' special rule) and fight out of pitiful desperation.
* vets can only take two spec weapons a squad
* penal legion abilities no longer randomised gain one as standard with the rest as squad upgrades.
* why not, drop troopers as a seperate troop choice in guard armies, light armour, carbines+shotguns, deep strike and valkyries as ded transports at regular bs
50603
Post by: StormForged
Blacksails wrote:StormForged wrote:Blacksails wrote:StormForged wrote:
Remove the ability to combine squads completely.
Why!? That's probably one of the coolest, fluffiest, and best choices for a foot IG army! Its far from broken and works flawlessly.
Because Combined Squads replace the need for taking Conscripts. The Imperial Guard is know to field thousands of Conscripts within a single battle and lose all of them, however, such is not the case in this Codex. You replace the option of Conscripts with a mob of uniform Troopers with a single Commissar, so its far from being considered 'Fluffy'.
Drop Combined Squads and give Conscripts the ability to take Commissars and a couple special weapons to make Conscripts a worth while investment and synergize better within the platoon.
Conscripts being broken and useless does not necessitate the removal of combined squads. Combined squads are indeed very fluffy and are a must to represent armies like DKoK, Cadians, Mordians and Valhallans. Otherwise there be no valid way of representing a solid mass of trained guardsmen. Conscripts need help, yes I agree, but removing combined squads, one of the best rules in the book, is not the answer you're looking for. A drop in price, 1 in 10 special weapons, and a purchasable commissar would go a long way to making conscripts viable.
Leave my combined squads alone.
The representation of a solid mass of trained Guardsmen is in the very mechanic of how Infantry Platoons are made. You can take five infantry squads underneath one Platoon Command and even include Heavy and Special Weapon Squads, not from squishing them together. Over one hundred Guardsmen can be fitted into two Troops choices.
Mordian/Terrax Guard prided themselves on their doctrines of discipline and constant drills, using strength of numbers and strength of experience to win their battles. They, of all regiments, would not combine squads for the fact their pride in such training forbids it.
That's what Conscripts are for.
Valhallans would never combine their infantry squads, knowing full well that it works in the Tyranids favor.
That's what Conscripts are for.
You can represent massed amounts of infantry just buy putting them in your army, however, the mechanic of 'blobs' of infantry would be something inexperienced soldiers would do, which is what Conscripts are. Inexperienced, enlisted men to send into the meat grinder instead of the more valued, more experienced infantry squads.
Drop Combined Squads and let the Conscripts do what they're supposed to do.
12620
Post by: Che-Vito
34243
Post by: Blacksails
The problem with your reasoning is that it would essentially render foot lists useless. The whole mechanic of 'blobbing' does not represent the unit literally 'blobbing' in reality, its a mechanic that shows the platoon acting as a single unit. If platoons couldn't form blobs, they'd suffer from poor leadership, complicated assault mechanics and weaker assault capabilities due to multi-assaulting, and be crippled in kill point games.
40k is an abstraction...a poor one at that more often than not, but its a game. Blobs are the best, simplest and definitely most amusing way of representing massed trained infantiers ready to repel the hordes of chaos. That's the short and simple of it. While it may be fluffier to have the platoons behave in a more platoon-like manner with separate squads acting independantly, who would play it? It would be more difficult, take longer, be more complicated, and just in general, suck. Nothing is stopping me from playing my Mordians in strict formation all base-to-base with a 2" between each squad, yet have the whole platoon blobbed together. I can do that, and it still looks fluffy and plays the part.
Fact is, by removing combined squads, you'd kill foot and hybrid guard. Conscripts aren't a replacement for massed guardsmen. They're just that; conscripts, nothing more. They need to be rehauled, but not by completely removing the option to viably field foot platoons.
10470
Post by: shrike
the rarer seen units could do with more cheapening (hellhound, penal legion)
rough riders, ogryns, sentinels and heavy weapons teams would be good too, but I still think they'll be rarely seen due to the model costs.
Veterans should have slightly higher stats and points cost.
Commissars added to squads should be cheaper.
Some kind of light vehicle, similar to a salamander or tauros, with a role similar to that of a sentinel (just a suggestion, dunno if that'd be too close to what a sentinel already does)
Some special characters could be cheaper (Yarrick, Bastonne, Chenkov)
Marbo should be scratched/made more points
13740
Post by: Valkyrie
eyebone wrote:Commissar Yarrick-
For the love of god this character needs +1 to strength. I mean honestly hes holding a ork power claw hes got to be stronger than a rating of three.... Overall I like this character hes just needs a little tweaking to cost, strength, and possible add a power weapon?
You are aware of how Power Claws work aren't you? His Strength is doubled to 6.
51262
Post by: Acegermanshepard
I would like to see a assult type squard armed to the teeth with knives and stuff.
44287
Post by: Reisen-tanith
Joey wrote:*Let stormtroopers be stormtroopers. They should have some kind of Trench Gun (12" Assault 2 S4 AP- Rending) and bayonets
I love this Idea, I'm working on an Ig trencher Ptl list and shotguns are the main thing I wanted better
(mine were s4 ap6 A2 12" to replace the sarges las pistol) the rending does make them desirable for tougher creatures and makes them more of a threat to non marine units.
48860
Post by: Joey
The idea is just to weaken the enemy troops down a bit before charging, which is pretty much what shotguns were originally supposed to do.
You'd need to pimp veterans' close combat abilities though. Maybe one of the doctrines could give them furious charge.
51259
Post by: KplKeegan
I would really like to see Doctrines replace Orders. I don't really mind paying points for Sharp Shooters or Iron Discipline or even Close Order Drill, just something more substantial than only having your Company Command Squad issue the two most valuable orders for your entire army. (Bring it Down, Fire on my Target).
50006
Post by: dreadfury101
i love the orders system, i dont see why we cant have both? orders give that tactical edge in the moment, doctrines give an overall personality to the army
10470
Post by: shrike
^ what he said.
29934
Post by: Durza
Tanith and the Last Chancers.
13140
Post by: slice of toast
Giving us back the doctrines would be fun, but only so long as they are each playable.
The biggest change to troops for me would be to give me back the option for my Veteran SGTs to take Bolters, and for my regular Sergeants to be able to take Lasguns. I have way too many of them sitting on the shelf ATM and it bothers me.
Basically, preserving most of this codex would be fine with me. I think Cruddace did a good job with the codex, FWIW.
36809
Post by: loota boy
What i'd like to see in the imperial guard codex? Hmm, perhaps put in front of the nerf firing squad? Most everything in the elites section needs a buff though.
50952
Post by: Sturmtruppen
Bring back Kasrkin or at least Hellguns.
48860
Post by: Joey
Hellguns as in S3 AP5? Why would you prefer that over AP3?
46864
Post by: Deadshot
Rename Hotshots Hellguns. Hellguns sounds more aggressive, and deadly, and Hot Shot Lasguns sounds like something you would pull out of a compartment on a bike. Hellguns sounds cooler.
35491
Post by: Grix
-Demo Charges outside of SWS's, regular Inf Squads should be able to take them.
-Different weapon options for Ogryn, if you could diversify them they would be competative even at current point cost.
-Commissar upgrade for Ogryn, with the ability to take a fist.
-Sentinels moved to Elites
-Point reduction to Punisher
-Sponsons on Leman Russ Chassis allow you to fire main gun and both sponson weapons on the move, for an increase in points/sponson
-Ratlings, need something, mainly its just because sniper rifles in this edition are not that great.
-Extra Armor on Chimera's reduced to 10 points
-Heavy Flamer's in INF and Veteran Squads reduced in points
-Vox Casters to Heavy Weapon/Special Weapon teams
-PCS' being able to be blob with either HWT's or Infantry Squads
31819
Post by: ImpGuardPanzies
What I get from this...gw needs to hurry up and come out w/ codexes more often.
46864
Post by: Deadshot
But remember they need to space out their releases so that they aren't bombarding customers with new stuff they can't afford all at once. And they have Fantasy and WotR as well. Not to mention development of otherr games like Blood Bowl and more recently, Dreadfleet.
36809
Post by: loota boy
Deadshot wrote:But remember they need to space out their releases so that they aren't bombarding customers with new stuff they can't afford all at once. And they have Fantasy and WotR as well. Not to mention development of otherr games like Blood Bowl and more recently, Dreadfleet.
But who actaually plays WotR? Like, actually plays it as acompetitive game and not just building dioramas with it?
46864
Post by: Deadshot
Lots of people, and as long as it sells, then they will continue.
31819
Post by: ImpGuardPanzies
Id like to see a change in the elite section. New rules or something,a dn a lower pt cost on ogryns.
I agree that vets should be a little more, well veteran.
I like the idea of Psycers as addonds like RA or commsars, or priests.
If they keep "penal legion" they should allow add ons and upgrades to better their possible cc skill, or shooting skill.
12620
Post by: Che-Vito
51495
Post by: Armless Failure
ImpGuardPanzies wrote:Id like to see a change in the elite section. New rules or something,a dn a lower pt cost on ogryns.
I agree that vets should be a little more, well veteran.
I like the idea of Psycers as addonds like RA or commsars, or priests.
If they keep "penal legion" they should allow add ons and upgrades to better their possible cc skill, or shooting skill.
Very much this. And give the player the ability to choose the penal legionnaire's ability.
Also bring back Schaeffer, and have him allow you to take penal squads as infantry squads in platoons. I want him to be a senior officer, but as a junior officer he could only affect his platoon and make all of his squads penal troops. Bring back Cage too, and give him a model.
10011
Post by: king-newmic
Changes that i would love to see:
Sgts get to carry lasguns again! also boltguns.
Valks,vendettas, and chimeras get points bumps! loss of transport for the vendetta or just make it an upgrade for the valk. and fix the chimera firepoints to at most 2-3 special weapons being fired from top.
Give voxs and banners a use again!
Sentinals need to have duel FOC slots, or at least the ability to take one squad extra free of the FOC slot.
RR's need scout! carapace and the ability to carry CCW and Laspistol/lasgun/shotgun would also be nice.
SWS NEEDS KRAK UPGRADE. way to drop the ball GW. also could use some shotguns and LP while your at it.
Hero characters: most need a points drop. especially the minor heros.
Leman russes: most of the varients need major to minor points drops, basic leman russ might need a minor points increase.
Ogryns: need a points drop, a slight stat change, and the ability to equip the squad. maybe a commisar upgrade.
Stormtroopers: give these guys dual profile weapons, a minor points drop, and a little bit of a clean up and they'll do fine.
Heavy flamers: minor points drop for all heavy flamers.
Doctrines: would like to see a return of somesort of army special rules and drawbacks.
Biker guardsmen: for those who dont like calvery.
armoured sentinals with another minor gun upgrade.
col. schaeffer should make a comeback.
51495
Post by: Armless Failure
king-newmic wrote:
Biker guardsmen: for those who dont like calvery.
I've seen an number of people make these, and just have them count as RR, but actual models and rules support would be better.
36809
Post by: loota boy
Deadshot wrote:Lots of people, and as long as it sells, then they will continue.
I'm fairly sure that even tought people do play it, they mostly use it for scenic battles and as just a rainy day game that you might play like you play risk. I mean, when is the last time you say a poster or something for the WotR tourny next week? GW doesn't even update it, because the people that play don't really expect new releases.
6772
Post by: Vaktathi
Honestly?
Expanded fluff section, lets get some pics of something other than cadians and catachans.
Heavy Mortars and Quad Launcher Thudd Guns in the list.
Stormtroopers become the following
WS4 BS4 S3 T3 W1 I3 A1 Ld8(9sergeant) Sv4+
Hellgun (S3 Ap5 Assault 3 18")
Laspistol
CCW
Infiltrate
Deep Strike
Scout
70pts for 5, 12pts for each additional Stormtrooper (130 for 10). Include some way to make them Troops via a character or HQ upgrade
Heavy Weapons Squads get Eternal Warrior (entirely too easy to destroy these units as is and it doesn't make sense that ID would apply given that it's 2 dudes not 1 tough dude) and drop costs by 15pts.
Make Valkyries dedicated transports, at least for Vets and Stormtroopers
Make Veterans a Platoon upgrade (e.g. Upgrade Infantry Squad to Veterans for +20pts)
Make Vanquisher BS4 with coax-stubber rule and Ap1
Drop 30pts off the Punisher
Move Vendetta to Heavy Support and remove Squadron option, it really doesn't belong in FA and it would solve a lot of complaints.
Drop Hellhound/Bane Wolf/Devil Dog cost by 20pts. Come with Smoke base.
Drop sentinel/armored sentinel costs by 10pts and most weapons options by 5pts each.
Dump Deathstrike, make apocalypse only.
Make vox's allow orders at any range, not rerolls within 6/12".
Include grenades with Special Weapon squads
redo chimera fire points, 2 of any weapon +3 lasguns, not 5 of anything.
31819
Post by: ImpGuardPanzies
I would like to keep the dice roll to see what Penal legion abilities are, as it adds a little more excitement to the game imho. However Penal in a platoon would seem strange to me, being that penal are prisoners...maybe a platoon of Penal, with scout ability, keep them on a grade level with conscrips...crappy meat shields to distract the enemy.
34243
Post by: Blacksails
Vaktathi wrote:Honestly?
Expanded fluff section, lets get some pics of something other than cadians and catachans.
Heavy Mortars and Quad Launcher Thudd Guns in the list.
Stormtroopers become the following
WS4 BS4 S3 T3 W1 I3 A1 Ld8(9sergeant) Sv4+
Hellgun (S3 Ap5 Assault 3 18")
Laspistol
CCW
Infiltrate
Deep Strike
Scout
70pts for 5, 12pts for each additional Stormtrooper (130 for 10). Include some way to make them Troops via a character or HQ upgrade
Heavy Weapons Squads get Eternal Warrior (entirely too easy to destroy these units as is and it doesn't make sense that ID would apply given that it's 2 dudes not 1 tough dude) and drop costs by 15pts.
Make Valkyries dedicated transports, at least for Vets and Stormtroopers
Make Veterans a Platoon upgrade (e.g. Upgrade Infantry Squad to Veterans for +20pts)
Make Vanquisher BS4 with coax-stubber rule and Ap1
Drop 30pts off the Punisher
Move Vendetta to Heavy Support and remove Squadron option, it really doesn't belong in FA and it would solve a lot of complaints.
Drop Hellhound/Bane Wolf/Devil Dog cost by 20pts. Come with Smoke base.
Drop sentinel/armored sentinel costs by 10pts and most weapons options by 5pts each.
Dump Deathstrike, make apocalypse only.
Make vox's allow orders at any range, not rerolls within 6/12".
Include grenades with Special Weapon squads
redo chimera fire points, 2 of any weapon +3 lasguns, not 5 of anything.
I find myself agreeing with you more and more.
+1
37044
Post by: Ridealgh
Has anyone noticed how manticores have a suckish AP for what they are? They're S10 for goodness sake! AP4 is not enough imo.
Also i would increase the amount of conscripts squads allowed in an infantry platoon
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Post by: UMGuy
Medics, psykers, commissars, and priests allowed to be taken as additions to CCS, PCS, Infrantry squads, Conscript Squads, Veterans, HWS, and SWS.
And some Storm Trooper Special Characters would be cool.
46864
Post by: Deadshot
What about unlimited Conscripts in a Platoon?
51259
Post by: KplKeegan
+Doctrines reimplimented
+Heavy Weapon Squads need survivability (Something akin to a special rule 'Emplacement': Where the Heavy Team makes their own makeshift emplacement and increases their toughness to 4 or gives them a +1 Cover Save) and reduce their points by 10-15.
+Conscripts need to have a Commissar upgrade and special Weapons
+Special Weapon Squads need grenades
+Move the Vendetta to Heavy Support
+Either reduce the blind spot for Artillery Ordnance Barrage or give Infantry Squads wargear to upgrade a Guardsman to a Spotter.
+Introduce more practical Advisors
+Drop the Tech-Preist
+Introduce support/repair vehicles as a squadron upgrade for squadroned tanks and artillery
+Introduce more Special Characters
+Drop the Leman Russ Eradicator and Punisher
+Increase the Vanquisher to BS4 and AP1. Reset the cost to fit with the standard Leman Russ Tank.
+Drop the Death Strike. Apocalypse only.
+Decrease Ogryns Points Cost
+Decrease the Storm Troopers cost back to 10 points a model. Replace 'Hotshot lasgun' with 'Hellgun'.
+Drop the 'One use only' rule for the Hunting Lance for Rough Riders.
+Sentinels/Armored Sentinels should have a 10 points drop and come with searchlights standard.
+Increase the cost of Veterans to 10 points a model so they're equal to Storm Troopers before wargear and transports.
+Introduce a Mine Layer Tank or Tactical Engineer Advisor that generates (x) amount of minefields per game.
+Rework Vox Casters back to their function in 4th ed; If the Infantry Unit and Command Unit have Vox Casters, they should be able to issue orders to them regardless of range.
+Heavy Weapons Squads need a vox, represented as its own model (like a familiar) and gives them +1 Leadership. Have it as wargear for the entire squad for 15 Points.
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Post by: Vaktathi
Ridealgh wrote:Has anyone noticed how manticores have a suckish AP for what they are? They're S10 for goodness sake! AP4 is not enough imo.
Also i would increase the amount of conscripts squads allowed in an infantry platoon
It's odd and definitely feels weird, but they're a highly effective anti-tank weapon and are great at engaging horde infantry, and still aren't by any means bad at engaging 3+ sv troops (wound on 2's, hitting up to 3 pieplates, not bad) For their cost, they're solid units and don't really need to be made any better, they're already complained about enough 
31819
Post by: ImpGuardPanzies
How bout adding a Ratline Character??
48860
Post by: Joey
Vaktathi wrote:Ridealgh wrote:Has anyone noticed how manticores have a suckish AP for what they are? They're S10 for goodness sake! AP4 is not enough imo.
Also i would increase the amount of conscripts squads allowed in an infantry platoon
It's odd and definitely feels weird, but they're a highly effective anti-tank weapon and are great at engaging horde infantry, and still aren't by any means bad at engaging 3+ sv troops (wound on 2's, hitting up to 3 pieplates, not bad) For their cost, they're solid units and don't really need to be made any better, they're already complained about enough
Well no. Compare to Leman Russ-
1d3 plates vs 1 manticore win
S9 vs S10 very rare that 1 point in strength is important
AP3 vs AP4 this is the killer. A Leman Russ Battle Tank can kill 5 marines per turn, The manticore would on average only kill a third as many. So you'd need ALL THREE plates to draw parity with the leman russ
AV12/10/10 vs AV 14/13/10 Leman Russes are good at surviving. They can shrug off a volley from lascannon demolishers. Manticores...won't. They'll die, quickly.
Extra weapons- Leman Russ (165 points) comes with a lascannon. 'nuff said.
So yeah, Manticores need buffs. AP3 would be too powerful though, so maybe D4 blast templates?
And I completely agree with what someone said about Heavy Weapons Team having some kind of dug-in modifier. +2 toughness sounds suitible (still wounded by bolters on 5+).
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Post by: Luke_Prowler
A single manticore volly can vaporise a full ork mob.
it is not underpowered
48860
Post by: Joey
Against Mobs it is over-powered, against MEQ it is about right, maybe 10 points too expensive.
36809
Post by: loota boy
Vaktathi wrote:Honestly?
Expanded fluff section, lets get some pics of something other than cadians and catachans.
Heavy Mortars and Quad Launcher Thudd Guns in the list.
Stormtroopers become the following
WS4 BS4 S3 T3 W1 I3 A1 Ld8(9sergeant) Sv4+
Hellgun (S3 Ap5 Assault 3 18")
Laspistol
CCW
Infiltrate
Deep Strike
Scout
70pts for 5, 12pts for each additional Stormtrooper (130 for 10). Include some way to make them Troops via a character or HQ upgrade
Heavy Weapons Squads get Eternal Warrior (entirely too easy to destroy these units as is and it doesn't make sense that ID would apply given that it's 2 dudes not 1 tough dude) and drop costs by 15pts.
Make Valkyries dedicated transports, at least for Vets and Stormtroopers
Make Veterans a Platoon upgrade (e.g. Upgrade Infantry Squad to Veterans for +20pts)
Make Vanquisher BS4 with coax-stubber rule and Ap1
Drop 30pts off the Punisher
Move Vendetta to Heavy Support and remove Squadron option, it really doesn't belong in FA and it would solve a lot of complaints.
Drop Hellhound/Bane Wolf/Devil Dog cost by 20pts. Come with Smoke base.
Drop sentinel/armored sentinel costs by 10pts and most weapons options by 5pts each.
Dump Deathstrike, make apocalypse only.
Make vox's allow orders at any range, not rerolls within 6/12".
Include grenades with Special Weapon squads
redo chimera fire points, 2 of any weapon +3 lasguns, not 5 of anything.
There's got to be a better way to fix heavy weapons squads then eternal warrior. It would be silly if a demo cannon or lance strike hit them dead on and only killed one guy...
To the manticore guy, manticores don't need a buff. They are friggen awesome already, the last thing they need to do is get ap 3 and give the colossus a big middle finger.
Deadshot- unlimited is probably a bit silly. People barely take them as is, i don't see anyone going "Darn, i've gotten 50 conscripts in every troops slot, sure wish i could have some more..."
46864
Post by: Deadshot
So you honestly don't want to see a unit of 500 Conscripts hoofing it across board?
34243
Post by: Blacksails
Deadshot wrote:So you honestly don't want to see a unit of 500 Conscripts hoofing it across board?
No. It'd be boring, tedious, and likely ineffective at everything.
Manticore is perfect as is, though I'd never complain about AP3 or even lower.
12620
Post by: Che-Vito
31819
Post by: ImpGuardPanzies
Manticore packs more anti-tank Imo, and you dont need LOS, AND it can pin. A battle tank, although EXTREAMLY powerful/durable as is(and lc upgrade) can not hit out of sight and cannot pin. Its lower helps makes pen'ing a tank more challenging. In no way at all am i saying the basic LRBT is bad. I am a large fan. Im just saying, the manticore has its perks------ depending how you play your gaurd, and your thrill of abusing pie plates.
36809
Post by: loota boy
Deadshot wrote:So you honestly don't want to see a unit of 500 Conscripts hoofing it across board?
I would shoot someone under the table if they brought a single unit of 500 models to a game.... We would get about 2 turns done before the next round started. Of course, they are only ld. 6, so you could just tank shock 500 guys off the board with a single rhino...
31819
Post by: ImpGuardPanzies
SOmething similar happened today, did a custom game, outflanks conscrips, thy faild leadership after getting shot..all died. ran off the board. Made me want to run off the board.
36809
Post by: loota boy
Biggest dick move ever: Outflank a full platoon with alharem, and place them so that they cover the entire board edge. Any outflankers that come in on that side cannot be placed, and immediatly die. Sorta like the gaurd equiv. of the famous kroot/whitescars first-turn-win.
12620
Post by: Che-Vito
36809
Post by: loota boy
Che-Vito wrote:loota boy wrote:Biggest dick move ever: Outflank a full platoon with alharem, and place them so that they cover the entire board edge. Any outflankers that come in on that side cannot be placed, and immediatly die. Sorta like the gaurd equiv. of the famous kroot/whitescars first-turn-win.
1) You'd have to come in on a turn before their Outflankers
2) You'd only catch 1/3rd of their Outflankers
3) You're spending at bare minimum 330 points to do this, 530 if "full platoon" means Conscripts as well.
4) Why bother playing to rule loopholes? Just play, be smart, and have fun. So much the better if you win in the process.
Don't lecture me. How many times do you see the kroot-whitescar auto-win happen? Not much, but that doesn't make it any less hilarious. Same thing here. It's just for gaks and giggles.
12620
Post by: Che-Vito
36809
Post by: loota boy
Che-Vito wrote:loota boy wrote:Che-Vito wrote:loota boy wrote:Biggest dick move ever: Outflank a full platoon with alharem, and place them so that they cover the entire board edge. Any outflankers that come in on that side cannot be placed, and immediatly die. Sorta like the gaurd equiv. of the famous kroot/whitescars first-turn-win.
1) You'd have to come in on a turn before their Outflankers
2) You'd only catch 1/3rd of their Outflankers
3) You're spending at bare minimum 330 points to do this, 530 if "full platoon" means Conscripts as well.
4) Why bother playing to rule loopholes? Just play, be smart, and have fun. So much the better if you win in the process.
Don't lecture me. How many times do you see the kroot-whitescar auto-win happen? Not much, but that doesn't make it any less hilarious. Same thing here. It's just for gaks and giggles.
When what you point out is woefully ineffective, and we're suggesting ways to make the next Imperial Guard codex "better", a lecture is in order.
It's called threadjacking.
I never claimed that it was an effective strategy, and what i did was not in anyway threadjacking. I threw out a funny thing that you could do with a big blob of gaurdsman, which we were discussing. That by itself isn't threadjacking. It's just a slightly off-topic post, and it's no big deal. If you really think its threadjacking, then you ought to know that the best way to stop a threadjack is to ignore the post and let people forget about it.
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Post by: Majsharan
if you can add priests as squad upgrade, you shouldn't be able to also add a commisar.
you should be able to add commisars to vets squads and penal legions.
I also think that lemun russ varients should be able to take auto-cannon sponsons as well as a hull ac. maybe for a 10 points boost over hb and hf.
50006
Post by: dreadfury101
pages 55-62 of the 4th ed codex put into the 5th ed codex with minor alterations to update to the new pts cost
51495
Post by: Armless Failure
The ability to take an additional special weapon if you eschew the heavy weapon.
48860
Post by: Joey
Armless Failure wrote:The ability to take an additional special weapon if you eschew the heavy weapon.
I've never given a BS3 model in my army list a special weapon...is it worth it?
34243
Post by: Blacksails
Joey wrote:Armless Failure wrote:The ability to take an additional special weapon if you eschew the heavy weapon.
I've never given a BS3 model in my army list a special weapon...is it worth it?
I don't know if you're being serious.
Flamers are great on BS3 models. Bringing enough meltaguns will still mean some kind of damage will be inflicted.
Every special weapon slot in every guard list I've ever made has a special weapon, normally flamers and meltaguns (plasma and melta on vets).
Totally worth it.
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Post by: Vaktathi
Che-Vito wrote:
Stormtroopers: I'd keep their current cost. Comparing them point for point to a Tactical Marine, what I present below I think is a pretty good representation.
They're both skilled in close combat as well as with ranged weapons, but the Stormtroopers cannot match the speed or strength of an Astartes. Their armor is not anywhere near as good, but their morale is higher than standard frontline Guardsmen. The Stormtroopers are Elites, because they are there to clear an objective...normal Guardsmen are there to hold it. They both have a variety of deployment options, which is the only thing that may require adding perhaps a point to the cost of Stormtroopers.
I believe the bump in close-combat is a big one. Stormtroopers should be able to outfight other Guardsmen pretty handily, and the addition of another attach as well as hitting on 3's, makes all the difference.
Give them the following statline:
WS(4) BS(4) S(3) T(3) W(1) I(3) A(1) Ld.(8) Sv.(4+)
Equipment: Hot Shot Laspistol, Close Combat Weapon, Hot Shot Lasgun
Special Rules: (fine as they are really.)
Hot-Shot Lasgun
(Burst Fire) S3 Ap3 24" Rapid Fire
(Charged Shot) S4 Ap3 18" Assault 1
Hot-Shot Laspistol
(same profile as it is currently, and nobody will use it because of the "charged shot" above. It's just there for the extra attack in close combat)
they still wouldn't be worth 16pts there, that AP3 is just too overvalued in a game where cover saves and FNP are ubiquitous and increasingly common invul saves and many opponents have saves that AP5 would work just as well against, especially when relying primarily on S*3* shots (against most opponents who are T4) and at S3 T3 I3 A1 (even with pistol/ CCW) they just don't have the statline to engage anything in the 15/16pt range in CC with any degree of success, even most 10-14pt models.
Joey wrote:Vaktathi wrote:Ridealgh wrote:Has anyone noticed how manticores have a suckish AP for what they are? They're S10 for goodness sake! AP4 is not enough imo.
Also i would increase the amount of conscripts squads allowed in an infantry platoon
It's odd and definitely feels weird, but they're a highly effective anti-tank weapon and are great at engaging horde infantry, and still aren't by any means bad at engaging 3+ sv troops (wound on 2's, hitting up to 3 pieplates, not bad) For their cost, they're solid units and don't really need to be made any better, they're already complained about enough
Well no. Compare to Leman Russ-
1d3 plates vs 1 manticore win
S9 vs S10 very rare that 1 point in strength is important
AP3 vs AP4 this is the killer. A Leman Russ Battle Tank can kill 5 marines per turn, The manticore would on average only kill a third as many. So you'd need ALL THREE plates to draw parity with the leman russ
AV12/10/10 vs AV 14/13/10 Leman Russes are good at surviving. They can shrug off a volley from lascannon demolishers. Manticores...won't. They'll die, quickly.
Extra weapons- Leman Russ (165 points) comes with a lascannon. 'nuff said.
So yeah, Manticores need buffs. AP3 would be too powerful though, so maybe D4 blast templates?
For what they cost and what they offer, they're already probably the most devastating turn 1 alpha strike weapon in the game, especially in an Anti-Tank capacity, with more complaints than just about anything but the Vendetta.
Also, LRBT Battlecannons are S8, not 10.
The AP3 only matters against 3+ sv opponents. Against -/6+/5+/4+/2+ opponents, they don't care. Granted, 3+ sv opponents are a big deal, but it's not a killer, and with cover being as ubiquitous as it is, that AP3 isn't what one thinks it is (It's a rare day when my BC's get shots off without cover saves being granted).
The Manticore doesn't need LoS, and thus can hide without needing to expose its AV12.
LRBT's are for killing Space Marines and acting as meatshields, Manticores are anti-tank/anti-horde units.
loota boy wrote:
There's got to be a better way to fix heavy weapons squads then eternal warrior. It would be silly if a demo cannon or lance strike hit them dead on and only killed one guy...
There is, and that's making them six model units again instead of 3 W2 models, but GW saw fit to design the models to be put on one large base instead for visual effect and thought they should be played as such. If they want to remain that way, EW is the only thing that really makes sense and prevents them from continually plinked by multishot S6+ weapons that inflict ID and can force Ld7 morale checks with a single successful wound.
51259
Post by: KplKeegan
Or just make Heavy Weapon Teams Toughness 4...
39529
Post by: gaovinni
Sergeants could take lasguns.
Heavy weapons squads (or the old heavy weapon platoon) as heavy support.
Doctrines (I want my catachan to feel like catachan in game).
46864
Post by: Deadshot
Maybe if we add in a SR for HW teams, of all kinds, that they can only be ID be a blast or template.
31819
Post by: ImpGuardPanzies
SR= storm raven? now im confused. I think gw should make and elysion and DKOK codex. kinda like BA, GK, SM, BT...why not do it for ig too?
32955
Post by: Coolyo294
SR=Special Rule.
35241
Post by: HawaiiMatt
Vets as elites.
S4 AP3 hellguns.
Doctrines, added a lot of flavor, I'd like to see them come back. With IG bits sprues for doctrines(chem inhalers, cybernatics, camo cloaks,and so on.)
Vehicle Squadron rules that make sense.
Heavy weapon teams, T3 W1, A2 with the "loader" special rule.
Loader: Inaddition to firing the heavy weapon, each base may also fire a lasgun. If a weapon team takes an unsaved wound, remove it and replace it with a guardsmen with lasgun.
In effect, the 1 wound on a unit kills the heavy weapon, and replaced the 2 models on 1 base with just 1 model. The 2nd wound would remove the loader.
It would let you use the current models with the feel of 2 models.
-Matt
31819
Post by: ImpGuardPanzies
vets should not be elites. there is plenty of elite options and you can only take 3. vets seem like a stable troop choice. otherwise you leave 2 troop choices for the codex. penal and platoon. ones got random abilities and the other is strong in numbers. the vets add a stable, small force that can do some damage.
49264
Post by: rob-or-ross
If one of your Heavy Weapon guys gets hit and killed you would remove the loader.
Think about it, if the guy firing the heavy weapon gets slotted the loader would just kick the body out of the way and start shooting it.
I'd do this with heavy weapons:
Squad of 3 teams (6 models) but you can add more up to a total of 6 teams.
You can not be instant killed (eternal warrior) - it makes sense, it is two guys.
You can have mixed weapons in one squad.
The loader gets a vox, if he is killed (you take a wound) you loose the benefits of the vox for that squad (fixing voxes in 6th Ed is a given).
You can take a commissar.
You can take a "fire team commander" who can issue 1 order per turn (only to the HWTs) with a choice of all the shooty ones and perhaps "incoming".
I also have some other thoughts that might be fun.
Veteran HWTs, BS4 and pick a doctrine (like the apoc tank crew special rules).
New weapons, Multi-melta, Multi-laser, Heavy stubber, Gatling lasgun (might be fun) S3 AP- Heavy 20.
Emplacement, may not move but get an extra point on their cover saves.
50764
Post by: nurglerulesslaneshdrools
Storm tropers with hot shot las guns and pistols (means its AP 3)
48746
Post by: Billagio
Maybe free voxes and a storm trooper buff (better cc skill?) Other than that I like it the way it is
31819
Post by: ImpGuardPanzies
6 models should be able to fire from a chimera as there is 6 guns on the model.
36809
Post by: loota boy
ImpGuardPanzies wrote:SR= storm raven? now im confused. I think gw should make and elysion and DKOK codex. kinda like BA, GK, SM, BT...why not do it for ig too?
NO. ABSOLUTLY NOT.
Half of the armies that you can play are already imperium armies. Adding more would be shafting xenos armies AGAIN. You also make updating codexes an even longer and more arduous process, shoving dated xenos codexes further towards the back of the line. Besides, if i'm not mistaken, there is a DKOK dex in print, but it's not GW official, or something like that. Models exist for both regiments on forgeworld and similiar sites, even if they cost royalties. Just use those models, and use units that they would use.
/rant.
12620
Post by: Che-Vito
48973
Post by: AtoMaki
What i want in the codex:
- Retcon the fluff/theme. It stinks. And boring. And maybe the least grim dark (Eastern front in space? Really?)... I want my IG fluff darker and edgier. Kind of like a DKOK/Catachan mix.
- Doctrine like upgrades for platoons. But not just three or four, but like twenty or so.
- Multi-meltas and assault cannons in HWS.
- Eredicate the Order system. It is ridiculous.
- Eredicate the Vendetta.
- Eredicate Conscripts.
- Put Veterans into Elites and make them a platoon.
- Put in lots of over-the-top cool stuff, like chain-bayonets (they were sooooo cool in GOW), Blanks and some kind of "assault Hades" vehicle.
51495
Post by: Armless Failure
Blacksails wrote:Joey wrote:Armless Failure wrote:The ability to take an additional special weapon if you eschew the heavy weapon.
I've never given a BS3 model in my army list a special weapon...is it worth it?
I don't know if you're being serious.
Flamers are great on BS3 models. Bringing enough meltaguns will still mean some kind of damage will be inflicted.
Every special weapon slot in every guard list I've ever made has a special weapon, normally flamers and meltaguns (plasma and melta on vets).
Totally worth it.
Special weapons are great for guard. You can move and shoot any of them which is fantastic, and almost needed, since guard is too static as it is. Flamers are just amazing, especially on BS3. Grenade Launchers are fantastically flexible, either dropping small templates, or blowing up light vehicles. Plasma is fun, if risky, and being rapid fire, it shoots whenever your lasguns shoot, and just as much, only when it hits, marines die. And to round it out, melta gun, I needn't say much about that.
Maybe also add Stormbolter to the mix. SoB gets it as a special weapons choice, and it works out decent with them.
And vets should definitely get moved to troop, but maintain the requirement of 1 platoon. unless they want to make vets slightly better, and bring back an improved armored fist squad.
39529
Post by: gaovinni
AtoMaki wrote:What i want in the codex:
- Retcon the fluff/theme. It stinks. And boring. And maybe the least grim dark (Eastern front in space? Really?)... I want my IG fluff darker and edgier. Kind of like a DKOK/Catachan mix.
- Doctrine like upgrades for platoons. But not just three or four, but like twenty or so.
- Multi-meltas and assault cannons in HWS.
- Eredicate the Order system. It is ridiculous.
- Eredicate the Vendetta.
- Eredicate Conscripts.
- Put Veterans into Elites and make them a platoon.
- Put in lots of over-the-top cool stuff, like chain-bayonets (they were sooooo cool in GOW), Blanks and some kind of "assault Hades" vehicle.
More doctrines for veterans too but I think they should be kept as troops.
Multi-meltas and assault cannons don't really have proper range to be used by heavy weapon squads in my opinnion.
Vendetta is great fun... not as an enemy though.
The order system is fine but voxes should be adjusted to make it work better.
Conscripts are a must in the dex! They fit the IG well. I personally do not use them but I know players who do and they do it well.
I am not really against over-the-top stuff but let the chain-bayonets stay in GOW... although I think marine models have had such things in the past but I don't think they had any rules of their own... and they look rather ridicilous. Somehow I still like the chainsword though.
48973
Post by: AtoMaki
gaovinni wrote:Multi-meltas and assault cannons don't really have proper range to be used by heavy weapon squads in my opinnion.
Pffff... What range? I want firepower!
gaovinni wrote:Vendetta is great fun... not as an enemy though.
The Vendetta is an overpowered and underpriced abomination.
gaovinni wrote:The order system is fine but voxes should be adjusted to make it work better.
The Orders are totally anti-cool. So, basically, your guys are so feeble, stupid and weak that they are needed to be instructed to do their best. In a middle of a battle. Where people used to do their best anyways. Just... No  ...
gaovinni wrote:Conscripts are a must in the dex! They fit the IG well. I personally do not use them but I know players who do and they do it well.
Conscripts should be the un-doctrined guardsmen.
gaovinni wrote:I am not really against over-the-top stuff but let the chain-bayonets stay in GOW... although I think marine models have had such things in the past but I don't think they had any rules of their own... and they look rather ridicilous. Somehow I still like the chainsword though.
Just one image: a lowly guardsman shredding a Chaplain/Farseer/Chaos Lord/Draigo(doh!) asunder with his chain-bayonet in a spray of gore.
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Post by: gaovinni
AtoMaki wrote:gaovinni wrote:I am not really against over-the-top stuff but let the chain-bayonets stay in GOW... although I think marine models have had such things in the past but I don't think they had any rules of their own... and they look rather ridicilous. Somehow I still like the chainsword though.
Just one image: a lowly guardsman shredding a Chaplain/Farseer/Chaos Lord/Draigo(doh!) asunder with his chain-bayonet in a spray of gore.
Well... no. Does not really appeal to me. Sorry.
49264
Post by: rob-or-ross
AtoMaki wrote:What i want in the codex:
- Retcon the fluff/theme. It stinks. And boring. And maybe the least grim dark (Eastern front in space? Really?)... I want my IG fluff darker and edgier. Kind of like a DKOK/Catachan mix.
- Doctrine like upgrades for platoons. But not just three or four, but like twenty or so.
- Multi-meltas and assault cannons in HWS.
- Eredicate the Order system. It is ridiculous.
- Eredicate the Vendetta.
- Eredicate Conscripts.
- Put Veterans into Elites and make them a platoon.
- Put in lots of over-the-top cool stuff, like chain-bayonets (they were sooooo cool in GOW), Blanks and some kind of "assault Hades" vehicle.
The fluff doesn't need to get darker, you say yourself that the DKOK and Catachans are what you like, well - they already exist so build an army of them...
Doctrines, yup, I used to like them.
Multi-Meltas and assault cannons, yup, like that.
Orders could work if the vox system wasn't a shambles.
If you don't like the Vendetta then make it more points, no reason to get rid of it.
Conscripts are fun, if you don't like them - don't take them.
Veterans are not elite, they are veterans. You could have veteran stormtroopers, they'd be elite.
Over the top stuff is for the other armies, the IG are the fighting men of the Imperium.
We can't kill a farseer with a chainsaw bayonet, we'd get massacred.
With our comrades by our side and our trusty lasguns we can overwhelm that stinking xeno by weight of numbers.
Oh, and it's eradicate.
34243
Post by: Blacksails
AtoMaki wrote:
The Orders are totally anti-cool. So, basically, your guys are so feeble, stupid and weak that they are needed to be instructed to do their best. In a middle of a battle. Where people used to do their best anyways. Just... No ...
I don't think you understand what orders are or what they're trying to recreate. In war, you have officers. Officers lead troops, the basic rank and file. In war, officers issue orders as the battle ebbs and flows, calling out target priorities, issuing orders to advance or retreat, or to climb over the ledge and take the trench.
The orders system represents your senior and junior officers issuing such orders, like 'Bring it Down!', or 'For the honour of Cadia!'.
And finally, people to not perform their best in battle. Soldiers perform only to their standard of training. That's why there are officers who issue orders.
Orders are fine and a nice addition. Voxes are broken.
31819
Post by: ImpGuardPanzies
Che-Vito wrote:ImpGuardPanzies wrote:6 models should be able to fire from a chimera as there is 6 guns on the model.
By this logic, a Rhino should be able to only carry 2 models...
how so? there are 2 top hatches on a rino one for weapon one for hk. and theres the window next to the drivers seat which is where the firing point is. (each firing point accounts for 2 models ability to shoot) where the ig codex says that specificaly 5 models can shoot not 5 firing points. what part of that logic counts for the transport capacity of anything?
#imconfused Automatically Appended Next Post: loota boy wrote:ImpGuardPanzies wrote:SR= storm raven? now im confused. I think gw should make and elysion and DKOK codex. kinda like BA, GK, SM, BT...why not do it for ig too?
NO. ABSOLUTLY NOT.
Half of the armies that you can play are already imperium armies. Adding more would be shafting xenos armies AGAIN. You also make updating codexes an even longer and more arduous process, shoving dated xenos codexes further towards the back of the line. Besides, if i'm not mistaken, there is a DKOK dex in print, but it's not GW official, or something like that. Models exist for both regiments on forgeworld and similiar sites, even if they cost royalties. Just use those models, and use units that they would use.
/rant.
well...your point was sucseffuly made in at least 4 ways. i withdraw my previous statement
48973
Post by: AtoMaki
rob-or-ross wrote:
The fluff doesn't need to get darker, you say yourself that the DKOK and Catachans are what you like, well - they already exist so build an army of them...
You are right but:
- I'm thinking about a mix of DKOK and Catachans. I want Catachans with the Cult of Sacrifice and the general dark theme of the DKOK (effectively, hardcore guys who do awesomely cool stuff, but are stoic, merciless and depressive).
- For every Catachan and DKOK army, there is another boring one, what is either just simply boring (Cadians) or is a historical reference in speeesshhh (Valhallans, Mordians, Attillans and so on).
rob-or-ross wrote:Over the top stuff is for the other armies, the IG are the fighting men of the Imperium.
And thats why they need over-the-top stuff! The Imperial Guard is an army of Batmen. And as Batman has Batstuff, the IG needs something nasty and unique for the guardsmen.
rob-or-ross wrote:We can't kill a farseer with a chainsaw bayonet, we'd get massacred.
Your lack of faith is disturbing comrade. Why couldn't we kill a farseer with a chain-bayonet? Who would stop us? We could simply (and literally) saw through them.
rob-or-ross wrote:With our comrades by our side and our trusty lasguns we can overwhelm that stinking xeno by weight of numbers.
Chain-bayonetting your enemies definitely sends a stronger message.
rob-or-ross wrote:Oh, and it's eradicate.
LOL, my translator says eredicate ... Cheap translator program is cheap...
Blacksails wrote:And finally, people to not perform their best in battle. Soldiers perform only to their standard of training. That's why there are officers who issue orders.
Sooo... By this logic, i have a better chance to hit an enemy tank if my officer points it out that i need to take out that tank (even if my original intention was to take out that tank anyways)... I have some real combat experience, but i simply can't imagine the situation...
34243
Post by: Blacksails
AtoMaki wrote:
Blacksails wrote:And finally, people to not perform their best in battle. Soldiers perform only to their standard of training. That's why there are officers who issue orders.
Sooo... By this logic, i have a better chance to hit an enemy tank if my officer points it out that i need to take out that tank (even if my original intention was to take out that tank anyways)... I have some real combat experience, but i simply can't imagine the situation...
The orders aren't meant to literally represent what is happening on the table. Soldiers aren't rolling D6s in battle to determine whether or not they can hit their target. The order system represents how the officers function, in a simplified game system with a secondary intention of game balance.
Arguing the literal, real world analogy for a table-top game is not going to get you far. The intention of the rules is to give the feeling of your officers directing their troops, not to create real-world analogies to blowing up tanks because my officer pointed his finger and yelled 'Kill it with fire!'.
Orders provide character for your officers besides simply being a higher Ld value. They are effective and useful while not being game breaking. They are fun and provide some real uses to the way an army plays.
Orders are perfectly fine and should be left alone.
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Post by: Augustus
+ baneblade
- orders
That is all
50006
Post by: dreadfury101
seriously the codex just needs tweaked doctrines, maybe a super heavy tank, other than that is is fine.
46864
Post by: Deadshot
I would actually like the Catachans to be more Commando-y.
Give them rules like MTC, Stealth, Infiltrate, Hit & Run, etc.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Maybe a rule that allows them to ignore any order.
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Post by: The Pure one
I agree with Dead shot all the way
And deadfury101&Augustus . . . i play apoc games all the time . and i honestly think that a baneblade ( whilst being a ton of shenanigans like fun ) would be totally over powered and game breaking. i dont have my apoc book but what is the cost of a bane blade? 400-500 points? i can put 2 of them in a 1500 point army. take a commisar and 2 vet squads and just ROFL-STOMP everyone who comes at me with a list not geared for my 2 bane blades.....as much as i love the concept of superheavys in a regular game.......no ....just no....even limiting them to 1 per list is till game breaking
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Post by: gaovinni
AtoMaki wrote:rob-or-ross wrote:Over the top stuff is for the other armies, the IG are the fighting men of the Imperium.
And thats why they need over-the-top stuff! The Imperial Guard is an army of Batmen. And as Batman has Batstuff, the IG needs something nasty and unique for the guardsmen.
... Imperial guard are pretty much meat shields in the fluff you know.
AtoMaki wrote:rob-or-ross wrote:We can't kill a farseer with a chainsaw bayonet, we'd get massacred.
Your lack of faith is disturbing comrade. Why couldn't we kill a farseer with a chain-bayonet? Who would stop us? We could simply (and literally) saw through them.
That bayonet would first have to reach the seer though. That is the tricky part for the guardsman/men. Besides, guardsmen and melee is not usually a good idea.
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Post by: AtoMaki
gaovinni wrote:... Imperial guard are pretty much meat shields in the fluff you know.
My first (and maybe the most important) point was that (i think) the current IG fluff is a piece of crap. Changing "meat shield" to "war machine" could be a good start.
gaovinni wrote:That bayonet would first have to reach the seer though. That is the tricky part for the guardsman/men. Besides, guardsmen and melee is not usually a good idea.
What is so tricky with catching some random farseer? Just go there and do it. And kill everyone who try to stop you.
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Post by: The Pure one
Because the farseer would know were you were coming from ....the eldar are much smarter than any human, can act faster than any human and can react faster than any human. it is writen to never underestimate the eldar
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Post by: Vaktathi
AtoMaki wrote:
- Put in lots of over-the-top cool stuff, like chain-bayonets (they were sooooo cool in GOW)
Space Marines are Thataway =====>
The Pure one wrote:Because the farseer would know were you were coming from ....the eldar are much smarter than any human, can act faster than any human and can react faster than any human. it is writen to never underestimate the eldar
Eldar aren't by any reasonable measure any more intelligent, they make plenty of dumb decisions themselves, rather they are generally better educated and trained and faster with access to greater knowledge at will, and the Farseers aren't by any means always right and don't see everything.
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Post by: AtoMaki
The Pure one wrote:Because the farseer would know were you were coming from ....the eldar are much smarter than any human, can act faster than any human and can react faster than any human. it is writen to never underestimate the eldar
Touche  !
Vaktathi wrote:Space Marines are Thataway =====>
Space Marines should be "meh" compared to Guardsmen in the terms of badassery.
And a few more things i want to see in the IG dex:
- Heavy 5 HStubber (can be assault 5, but only with -1 BS), and HStubber option as special weapon
- Assault 2 Grenade Launchers
- HWT-s as 2 models "mini-unit"
- HWS can take Signum and Vox
- Auxiliary Grenade Launchers and a whole arsenal of grenades (concussion(defensive)/smoke/gas/rad)
- Lascannon sponsons for Leman Russes
- Command, Drop and Heavy Weapons Platoons
- Some sort of open-topped fast skimmer transporter/gunship, similar to the Intruder from the Killzone games
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Post by: Bobthehero
sluggaslugga wrote:
Stormtroopers should get Demolition Charges
Dont they already have it? or is it only for the Forgeworld stuff.
Edit: Whoa... didnt saw the page count, ignore this and move along.
46751
Post by: Akroma06
The problem with a baneblade is that you would have to inculde super heavies and super heavy rules for all races, and it could end up being a big mess. Plus you have new templates to use in "normal" games.
No. I would just add in proper military ranks such as lieutenant (lou-tennant not left there is no 'f' there), or colonel. Drop orders for doctrines. I have used going to ground with get back in the fight too many times for it to feel right. Bump the cost of vendettas up, don't add bolters automatically or remove the transport ability and keep the cost alone. Sentinels should be able to take the old chainsaws (Dread CCW) again, and count as elites or fast.
34243
Post by: Blacksails
Akroma06 wrote:
No. I would just add in proper military ranks such as lieutenant (lou-tennant not left there is no 'f' there), or colonel.
Silly Americans...Lieutenant is pronounced 'Left'tenant. You're all just in denial.
Oh, and I agree with your point about giving them ranks.
42592
Post by: JamesMclaren123
Some kind of artilery that is not moterized
LORD SOLAR MACHARIUS 
improvements to storm troopers
a decent CC unit that is reliable not massively overpriced or looks really stupid
12620
Post by: Che-Vito
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Post by: Vaktathi
Che-Vito wrote:
Really, I think anyone below the Guard rank of Colonel has no place in normal games of 40k, and even that is pushing it.
While I don't necessarily disagree in principle, we do have a humongous number of ridiculously high ranking individuals as playable characters in this game. We have Astartes Chapter Masters and Eldar Farseers, even now-dead Farseers of unparalleled renown, the mightiest mortal champions of Chaos including the Warmaster of the Traitor Legions. We have the most capable commanders of the Tau empire and their ruling caste as playable units, the mightiest Ork warlords and the most powerful Dark Eldar archon available as common HQ's. We have Inquisitors who rule entire sectors from the shadows and the most legendary heroes from amongst the mythical Grey Knights available to play with as well.
Seems sorta silly to exclude higher ranked IG commanders simply on the basis of being too senior when you look at it like that.
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Post by: xxmatt85
I would like to see mercs in the next codex please.
20901
Post by: Luke_Prowler
Nerfs
Lots and lots of nerfs
51222
Post by: FashaTheDog
Considering that I have an unopened blister and a few open ones hanging around since the 90s, I want to see Human Bombs return. Those guys were fun, but I won't hold my breath.
The other thing that would be cool would be to return to the old 2nd Edition heavy weapon team rule where an Infantry Squad could leave behind their heavy weapon to provide covering fire mid-game for the advancing squad.
Also, since I know my wish list will never even remotely have a chance of being fulfilled, include Ciaphas Cain as a choice so I feel the need to use my Valhallans as Valhallans and not Krieg place holders for larger games. Maybe something like the house rules I've been toying with for him (cut and pasted here for others to steal).
Ciaphas Cain
WS 6 BS5 S3 T3 W3 I3 A3 Ld10 Sv4+
Carapace armor, laspistol, chainsword
IC, Stubborn, Summary Execution, Aura of Discipline, Hero of the Imperium, Emperor's Sense of Humor
Hero of the Imperium: While attached to a squad that has at least one living member, excluding Jurgen, no wounds may be allocated to Ciaphas Cain as Cain's uncanny survival instinct places him just out of harm's way.
Emperor's Sense of Humor: At the start of the movement phase, before reserves enter, if Cain is no longer part of another unit, excluding Jurgen, then he automatically falls back in the direction directly away from the nearest enemy. If this move brings him into coherency with a friendly unit, then he joins that unit and that unit no counts as having moved. Additionally, any attacks made against that unit in the following enemy's turn may re-roll to hit representing the danger Cain heroically fled into. Should this move bring him within an inch of an enemy unit, then he counts as charging.
Jurgen
WS 3 BS3 S3 T3 W2 I3 A1 Ld10 Sv5+
Flak armor, laspistol, meltagun, frag and krak grenades
Feel No Pain, Blank, Cain's Aide
Blank: Jurgen and all models, friend or foe, within 2" are immune to all psychic powers. Any psychic powers targeting Jurgen or a model within 2" of him, or a psychic power cast by a model within 2" of Jurgen, automatically fail.
Cain's Aide: In order to best serve Cain and ensure that a flask of tanna is always at hand for the Commissar, Jurgen must remain within 2" of Cain at all times if at all possible. If Cain joins a unit, then Jurgen will likewise do so, counting as an IC.
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Post by: gaovinni
AtoMaki wrote:Space Marines should be "meh" compared to Guardsmen in the terms of badassery.
And a few more things i want to see in the IG dex:
- Heavy 5 HStubber (can be assault 5, but only with -1 BS), and HStubber option as special weapon
- Assault 2 Grenade Launchers
- HWT-s as 2 models "mini-unit"
- HWS can take Signum and Vox
- Auxiliary Grenade Launchers and a whole arsenal of grenades (concussion(defensive)/smoke/gas/rad)
- Lascannon sponsons for Leman Russes
- Command, Drop and Heavy Weapons Platoons
- Some sort of open-topped fast skimmer transporter/gunship, similar to the Intruder from the Killzone games
Considering that space marines are super soldiers and guardsmen are the ordinary rank and file, basically what a guardsman do a marine can do better (except hiding in a small space, power armor would be a problem). What ordinary guardsmen are in the fluff (and on the tabletop) right now is, in my opinnion, what they should be. Veterans COULD be more badass but is not a necessity. They are fine as they are now but I admit I would like it if they could get even more sepcial equipment and weapons. A combi-lasgun would be something I'd like to see in the future. A lasgun-grenade launcher for example. Could be given to a set amount (or any) veterans or such. I already do convert my veterans with extra equipment and custom weapons to distinguish them even more from the ordinary guardsmen. I also have a marine army for two reasons: 1. I love the look of bolt weaponry, 2. I love the look of the rhino chassis tanks (especially the predator), but there is one thing I hate about marines and that is that damn power armor. So... I have a full force of scouts with predators as heavy support and the scouts are converted with well equipped guard veteran troopers in mind. Combi.weapons for sergeants and scopes, silencers, bipods and loads of other things on the normal scouts. I would do the same with IG if combi-lasguns would exist and veterans could have them... although I mainly play with Dark Eldar at the moment...
42203
Post by: Lord Magnus
Guard are fine as they are, maybe with a raise and drop in price on units, with some of the CC units being more useful..
51495
Post by: Armless Failure
Blacksails wrote:Akroma06 wrote:
No. I would just add in proper military ranks such as lieutenant (lou-tennant not left there is no 'f' there), or colonel.
Silly Americans...Lieutenant is pronounced 'Left'tenant. You're all just in denial.
No, no it's not.
If my army were british I might field leftenants, if it were time-lords I would just field tennants. But since my army is from all over the galaxy and guardsmen are rarely well educated beyond rifle drills and maybe grox shaving, I think we'll stick closer to the phonetic pronunciation.
Orders are remarkably silly, one would think that once you have Voxes (Voxs, Voxen), anything your troops do would be an order. And if all it took was some officer barking orders to motivate my troops to fight harder, my Commissars would be even more effective.
Doctrines need to come back, they allowed for a great level of customization to reflect the diverse nature of various guard regiments without creating the codex glut that the marines have. You could make your Catachan play more obviously different than your Cadians, which are distinct from DKoK. And the doctrines had little drawback, since nobody runs more than 4 different units from the restricted list at a time anyway.
Make Rough Riders into a bike unit, make models that are actually on bikes, and make the existing ones "count as bikes". Either cheaper Ogryns or T5 Ogryns. Make ratling snipers worth something.
48973
Post by: AtoMaki
Armless Failure wrote: or T5 Ogryns.
But Ogryns are already T5...
51495
Post by: Armless Failure
AtoMaki wrote:Armless Failure wrote: or T5 Ogryns.
But Ogryns are already T5...
Sorry I meant 6
12620
Post by: Che-Vito
51495
Post by: Armless Failure
Che-Vito wrote:Armless Failure wrote:AtoMaki wrote:Armless Failure wrote: or T5 Ogryns.
But Ogryns are already T5...
Sorry I meant 6
As tough as most MC? Let's not.
Mephiston rocks T6, and he's not a monsterous creature.
20901
Post by: Luke_Prowler
Armless Failure wrote:Che-Vito wrote:Armless Failure wrote:AtoMaki wrote:Armless Failure wrote: or T5 Ogryns.
But Ogryns are already T5...
Sorry I meant 6
As tough as most MC? Let's not.
Mephiston rocks T6, and he's not a monsterous creature.
Mephiston is also a SPECIAL CHARACTER who is also a space marine who is also the chief librarian of the Blood Angels. He's pretty much a MC in all but name anyway
48860
Post by: Joey
Armless Failure wrote:
Sorry I meant 6
Toughness 6 means they can shrug off bolters but still afraid of plasma guns so sounds like an alright compromise to me.
Assuming they're still a lot of points, obviously.
Guard in general need some love in close combat. At the moment they're about 4 stars with shooting, 0 stars in CC.
Making them Very Weak rather than Literally Useless would not break the game or need some point boost.
An order that gave them Furious Charge would suffice.
12620
Post by: Che-Vito
51222
Post by: FashaTheDog
Yeah, because Mephiston was the only T6 Marine and not that Mary-Sue Cassius (for only 25 points more than a base Chaplain also gets Feel No Pain and a combi-flamer with inferno rounds). 
42203
Post by: Lord Magnus
But Cassius isn't that good...
29914
Post by: martin74
Storm troopers able to take a Valk as a dedicated transport. it fits for them, game play and fluff
51495
Post by: Armless Failure
Joey wrote:Armless Failure wrote:
Sorry I meant 6
Toughness 6 means they can shrug off bolters but still afraid of plasma guns so sounds like an alright compromise to me.
Assuming they're still a lot of points, obviously.
Guard in general need some love in close combat. At the moment they're about 4 stars with shooting, 0 stars in CC.
Making them Very Weak rather than Literally Useless would not break the game or need some point boost.
An order that gave them Furious Charge would suffice.
This is the exact reason I was suggesting 6. Ogryn are also borderline monstrous creatures, and making them a solid melee tarpit is more use than they are now, and they become reasonable for their current point cost (likely still not good). Guard lacks even a good countercharge unit. The Tau have Kroot, the SoB have Battle Conclaves, the Necron have Flayed ones (not generally considered a countercharge option, but better melee per point than ogryn). You could give them more WS or Improve the Ripperguns, but really those don't fit the fluff, they're big, bumbling and too hard and stupid to die.
37790
Post by: Hlaine Larkin mk2
The re-introduction of doctrines
46864
Post by: Deadshot
I once had an idea of minor MC rules for Ogryns.
Their CC attacks reduce the opponent's Sv by 2, so 2+ becomes 4+, 4+ becom,es 6+, 5+ becomes -. Against Vehicles, they roll Str+D3+D6.
They can fire their weapons tweice if they don't move, or fire an second weapon.
They have MTC.
51495
Post by: Armless Failure
If not T6, then FnP. Maybe a touch too strong, and I would hate to see the points go up on them.
48017
Post by: Banzaimash
JourneyPsycheOut wrote:Limit the amount of special weapons on veterans and Command Squads to 2. Increase Chimera side armor to 11 and increase cost to 65. Allow vendettas and valkyries fire all weapons at cruising speed but increase cost by 30 points. Make their one shot missiles not suck or be one shot. Remove vendetta transport capability, but give them heavy bolter sponsons standard. (Turn them into a gunship role only.) Make hyrda turret a single weapon but increase cost by 15. Improve leman russ punisher, eradicator turret weapons. Make punisher str. 6 ap - 36" range. Make eradicator str. 5 AP 3. Increase executioner cost by another 10-15 points. Add a drawback that reduces an combined platoons ld. for orders by 1 for each squad over 1 in the combined platoon due to increased difficulty of organizing a large mob. Have each vox caster in the squad reduce this penalty by 1. Vox casters no longer allow rerolls but double the range of orders if both the command squad and ordered squad have one. Make stormtroopers about 13 points and change their hot shot lasguns to str. 4 ap - 18" assault 2. Give penal legionairres a suicide ability. Should a penal legionaire squad remain in combat at the end of any assault phase after pile in moves are made, the imperial guard player may choose to sacrifice the unit for the emperor. Each model friend or foe takes a str.4 ap - hit for each penal legionaire it is in base contact with then immediately remove the penal legionaire unit as casualties. If any characters are attached to the unit, this ability may not be used.
This.
Also, make veterans elites like in the previous codex (without the 0-1). While Storm troopers can be more upfront assault specialists, with range 18" str 3 ap 4 assault2 hellguns and the ability to take three spec weapons, the veterans can play a light infantry/ scouts/ sabotage role. They can only have flak armour, except they have stealth, scouts, infiltrate and move through cover (maybe only a few of these or even one but you get the idea). They could also have some demo charges but only two special weapons (my reasoning is that while the vets will be trusted with special weapons more than regular infantrymen, they get more. However, stormtroopers, being better trained, would get more). What could define these units from others are special rules. For example, stromtroopers get rules that allow them to take gakloads of fire, while vets are get more stealthy/ better at ambushes and sabotage/ better in close combat rules (ws4 as well).
25543
Post by: TyraelVladinhurst
assault cannon sentinels....please bring them back
46835
Post by: Totalwar1402
Armless Failure wrote:Joey wrote:Armless Failure wrote:
Sorry I meant 6
Toughness 6 means they can shrug off bolters but still afraid of plasma guns so sounds like an alright compromise to me.
Assuming they're still a lot of points, obviously.
Guard in general need some love in close combat. At the moment they're about 4 stars with shooting, 0 stars in CC.
Making them Very Weak rather than Literally Useless would not break the game or need some point boost.
An order that gave them Furious Charge would suffice.
This is the exact reason I was suggesting 6. Ogryn are also borderline monstrous creatures, and making them a solid melee tarpit is more use than they are now, and they become reasonable for their current point cost (likely still not good). Guard lacks even a good countercharge unit. The Tau have Kroot, the SoB have Battle Conclaves, the Necron have Flayed ones (not generally considered a countercharge option, but better melee per point than ogryn). You could give them more WS or Improve the Ripperguns, but really those don't fit the fluff, they're big, bumbling and too hard and stupid to die.
No, they really, really don't. Does ogryn look as tough as a carnifex? Or a hive tyrant? Or a Trygon? Because they all have t6. The equivalent sized models with ogyrns, like warriors, still make do with T4, whilst only their leader the warrior prime; has t5. They are not remotely borderline monstrous creatures, they are space ogres, just really big dumb humans. If this were fantasy you'd be saying an ogre should have the same T as a giant! Wraithlords and the Talos are different becuase they are mechanical, same goes for dreadnoughts. Compared to organic MC ogryns aren't remotely comparable.
I agree with you on the conclaves, but as a Tau player Kroot are crap since they have no armour and low I. They die in droves to anything that would actually be charging Tau lines. Also the guard have FAR more firepower than a SOB army, both in terms or range, access to multiple barrage weapons, plasma guns, heavy tanks and so guard are not in need a 'counter assault' unit. Guard already have rough riders anyway, whats wrong with them? They're your CA unit for killing marines whilst ogryns are for holding non-existent blobs of light infantry.
48860
Post by: Joey
Totalwar1402 wrote:
No, they really, really don't. Does ogryn look as tough as a carnifex? Or a hive tyrant? Or a Trygon? Because they all have t6. The equivalent sized models with ogyrns, like warriors, still make do with T4, whilst only their leader the warrior prime; has t5. They are not remotely borderline monstrous creatures, they are space ogres, just really big dumb humans. If this were fantasy you'd be saying an ogre should have the same T as a giant! Wraithlords and the Talos are different becuase they are mechanical, same goes for dreadnoughts. Compared to organic MC ogryns aren't remotely comparable.
I agree with you on the conclaves, but as a Tau player Kroot are crap since they have no armour and low I. They die in droves to anything that would actually be charging Tau lines. Also the guard have FAR more firepower than a SOB army, both in terms or range, access to multiple barrage weapons, plasma guns, heavy tanks and so guard are not in need a 'counter assault' unit. Guard already have rough riders anyway, whats wrong with them? They're your CA unit for killing marines whilst ogryns are for holding non-existent blobs of light infantry.
How would you boost ogryn then? You can't boost S or T any more, it would be un-ogryn to have high initiative. Maybe a point higher weapon skill but that's it.
I suppose they're fine as they are with a point reduction.
48973
Post by: AtoMaki
Joey wrote:How would you boost ogryn then? You can't boost S or T any more, it would be un-ogryn to have high initiative. Maybe a point higher weapon skill but that's it.
I suppose they're fine as they are with a point reduction.
Give them Relentless and options for heavy weapons (Heavy Bolter/Flamer, Missile Launcher, Assault Cannon). And give them Carapace Armour too.
36809
Post by: loota boy
Give them a couple more wounds, lol.
12620
Post by: Che-Vito
46835
Post by: Totalwar1402
Yeah price in money cost and pts is definetly the reason they are absent most guard armies.
Make ogryns 30pts a model, put them with an ind commisar and you get a brick on the table that can hold most cc units in place and could certainly beat the likes of eldar wyches. Their role is really just to hold off an enemy assault not actually defeat it.
Rough riders should probably have two attacks basic (either by letting them gain the bonus of two cc weapons for the lance or to represent the steed fighting in CC). A 105pts squad on the charge would then be putting out 30+ attacks at str5 I5. Average WS would be a problem. You could argue they'd be better trained at it, but equal to a commisar? You could perhaps allow them to take a 2pts upgrade to carapace armour to represent some kind of curiasar or even let them upgrade to xenos mounts for extra T and str (not affecting the lance).So, +4pts for str and t4? It would be a good way of adding extra options for theming your army, which since they removed doctrines seems to be how they reflect differences in regiments now. If you want a catachan jungle fighter army take veterans and give them forward sentries etc. Its a fairly neat system actually and I can't conceive of them returning to doctrines.
36809
Post by: loota boy
Let 'um take ministorum priests aswell. I mean, really, you make a unit that makes stuff better in cc, but you make it so that the only cc unit in the entire codex CAN'T take them? I mean, they are all right in power blobs, but if you have points for a priest, then you have points for a commisar with a powerweapon. I know which i'd rather have.
47578
Post by: Herr Dexter
Re-issue:
- bring back Shaffer and Gaunt
- bring back guard jargon and medal / fluff section
Nerf:
- lower range on Psyker Battle Squad's powers to 24"
48860
Post by: Joey
loota boy wrote:Let 'um take ministorum priests aswell. I mean, really, you make a unit that makes stuff better in cc, but you make it so that the only cc unit in the entire codex CAN'T take them? I mean, they are all right in power blobs, but if you have points for a priest, then you have points for a commisar with a powerweapon. I know which i'd rather have.
Priests are ICs they can go with whatever squad they like.
Unless you mean priests being available as squad upgrades like commissars which would actually make them useful, in which case I completely agree.
Although being a fearless close combat squad has its drawbacks.
34243
Post by: Blacksails
Joey wrote:
Although being a fearless close combat squad has its drawbacks.
Priests don't make your unit fearless.
Priests as a unit upgrade would be fantastic, and I'd have a commissar with powerweapon and a priest with eviscerator in ever blob.
And it would be glorious.
23445
Post by: Necro
I really think it is a shame you don't see Ogruns take to the table much.
I like to see Ogruns get rending, that would make them more popular
19377
Post by: Grundz
More detpacks
More fun things to do with infantry
36809
Post by: loota boy
Joey wrote:loota boy wrote:Let 'um take ministorum priests aswell. I mean, really, you make a unit that makes stuff better in cc, but you make it so that the only cc unit in the entire codex CAN'T take them? I mean, they are all right in power blobs, but if you have points for a priest, then you have points for a commisar with a powerweapon. I know which i'd rather have.
Priests are ICs they can go with whatever squad they like.
Unless you mean priests being available as squad upgrades like commissars which would actually make them useful, in which case I completely agree.
Although being a fearless close combat squad has its drawbacks.
Yes, they can go in the ogryns squad, but the ogryns don't get the rerolls that they grant to other units.
30265
Post by: SoloFalcon1138
Really? A new codex for IG will be coming out when? Not in the near future? So when torture yourselves with idle wishes?
48860
Post by: Joey
SoloFalcon1138 wrote:Really? A new codex for IG will be coming out when[sic]? Not in the near future? So when[sic] torture yourselves with idle wishes?
We're discussing ways that the IG codex could be improved/embellished. Feel free to not post at all if you see no worth in that.
31819
Post by: ImpGuardPanzies
Joey wrote:SoloFalcon1138 wrote:Really? A new codex for IG will be coming out when[sic]? Not in the near future? So when[sic] torture yourselves with idle wishes?
We're discussing ways that the IG codex could be improved/embellished. Feel free to not post at all if you see no worth in that.
And although post says 'new codex' they could always make updates. either way, could inspire some new house rules, or rules in small gamming groups. Warhammer is an extreamly creative game if you care about it at all. So god(Joey) forbid we use imagination? No, joey is not God. say there is no god...what excuse/force do we hve to keep us from debating new things? NOTHING- most certinly not joey.
48860
Post by: Joey
ImpGuardPanzies wrote:Joey wrote:SoloFalcon1138 wrote:Really? A new codex for IG will be coming out when[sic]? Not in the near future? So when[sic] torture yourselves with idle wishes?
We're discussing ways that the IG codex could be improved/embellished. Feel free to not post at all if you see no worth in that.
And although post says 'new codex' they could always make updates. either way, could inspire some new house rules, or rules in small gamming groups. Warhammer is an extreamly creative game if you care about it at all. So god(Joey) forbid we use imagination? No, joey is not God. say there is no god...what excuse/force do we hve to keep us from debating new things? NOTHING- most certinly not joey.
Okay I can see you're American and therefore have difficulty with subtlety so I'll spell it out.
This thread is not supposed to be a draft proposal for a new codex, it's about how you'd like to see IG changed and what you'd like to be improved.
If you'd like a mod to change the title to "A compendium of community ideas in relation to, but not in competition in or errata of, the Imperial Guard Codex" then by all means PM a mod.
36809
Post by: loota boy
Joey wrote:ImpGuardPanzies wrote:Joey wrote:SoloFalcon1138 wrote:Really? A new codex for IG will be coming out when[sic]? Not in the near future? So when[sic] torture yourselves with idle wishes?
We're discussing ways that the IG codex could be improved/embellished. Feel free to not post at all if you see no worth in that.
And although post says 'new codex' they could always make updates. either way, could inspire some new house rules, or rules in small gamming groups. Warhammer is an extreamly creative game if you care about it at all. So god(Joey) forbid we use imagination? No, joey is not God. say there is no god...what excuse/force do we hve to keep us from debating new things? NOTHING- most certinly not joey.
Okay I can see you're American and therefore have difficulty with subtlety so I'll spell it out.
This thread is not supposed to be a draft proposal for a new codex, it's about how you'd like to see IG changed and what you'd like to be improved.
If you'd like a mod to change the title to "A compendium of community ideas in relation to, but not in competition in or errata of, the Imperial Guard Codex" then by all means PM a mod.
Good job on generalizing people based on their country, you silly brit. Go eat some bangers & mash why dontcha? Or do you prefer fish & chips?
Hurts, don't it?
48860
Post by: Joey
I'm vegetarian so neither of those would appeal to me. I do rather like tea and Yorkshire Pudding, though. Not at the same time...
36809
Post by: loota boy
You get my point. The lesson is, stereotyping is bad, kids.
48860
Post by: Joey
So is insisting on a literal interpretation of a thread title, bordering on threadjacking.
I apologise if I offended you, however.
36809
Post by: loota boy
Apology accepted, and yes, threadjacking is bad, but next time, let's give the jacker a telling off that doesn't involve his nationality, eh? But whatever. It's all under the carpet now.
46864
Post by: Deadshot
Dlad that's out of the way.
Now, what I would like to see is a Russ Heavy Transport for Guartd, sort of a cross between a Chimera and a Russ, like a Smaller Crassus.
31819
Post by: ImpGuardPanzies
like a 6 person carrying cap with side sponsons and a main battle cannon, of weaker value..say a twin linked ML large blast stats....
49264
Post by: rob-or-ross
Well, there is already the Gorgon from IA5.
You could make that legal in the codex or just ask your opponent if he'd mind awfully...
14,14,10 with a transport capacity of 50.
That sounds like fun eh?
27727
Post by: Bonde
I think the current Guard 'dex is pretty good, and I strongly agree with you guys on some points that means a lot to me as well:
Doctrines - I haven't tried fielding a guard army with proper infantry customization, but I realy think it fits in there, so you can field a proper catachan army again.
More viable elite choices - ST's need to be a little stronger in assault and the Ogryns need to be a little cheaper.
Rebalancing of the tanks, so the different variants will be seen more often.
27727
Post by: Bonde
And I forgot - we need rough riders to be on bikes aswell, not just horses.
49264
Post by: rob-or-ross
Or jet packs.
51859
Post by: Squidmanlolz
I find the current codex very fair and balanced, the only problem is against enemies with codeces written by Mat Ward. My only complaint is the removal of Commisar-Colonel Gaunt, I am a huge fan of Gaunt's Ghosts and would love having the Ghosts as an auxillary squad.
48860
Post by: Joey
I never played 4th edition guard, but playing 5th I can't say there's a gaping hole where doctrines should be.
41700
Post by: Field Gen
A tank that fires this weapon with the following profile.
Nuclear Missile
Range: Unlimited
STR: -
AP: -
Once per game only.
Select the area of the model you wish to target as normal when using Blast template rules. Than Create a 30' Circle Around the spot that is hit. All models within the circle are immediately removed from game with no saves allowed and for the remainder of the game. All models treat all terrain as Dangerous Terrain that gives an unsavable wound on a 2+ instead of a 1 when rolling to determine whether the models take a wound when moving on dangerous terrain. The terrain cannot be ignored by any rules as the radiation poison in the air is too much for even levitating creatures to ignore.
All Vehicles that are hit are destroyed and remove all terrain on the board as well.
Example: Fire this when you are playing a 2500-3000 game against orks or Tyranides or ...ANY army for that matter when the deployment is Spearhead and guard will always win! HURRAY!
24019
Post by: Sieggfried
To all those who want WS4 for vets or stromies, 3+ saves, T4 or STR4 and even both, to those who want beefed up Hellguns and the lot just go buy yourselves some Mehreens and stop playing IG.
I reckon its completely pointless to expect a buffed human with the stats of a superhuman (SM doh).
In the grim darkness of the far future where there's plenty of aliens of untold malice, foul creatures of the worst kind and mere humans are going to war with nothing more than a cardboard vest and a flashlight, well all they got to compensate for is numbers. QQ or change army lads..
51859
Post by: Squidmanlolz
Sieggfried wrote:To all those who want WS4 for vets or stromies, 3+ saves, T4 or STR4 and even both, to those who want beefed up Hellguns and the lot just go buy yourselves some Mehreens and stop playing IG.
I reckon its completely pointless to expect a buffed human with the stats of a superhuman (SM doh).
In the grim darkness of the far future where there's plenty of aliens of untold malice, foul creatures of the worst kind and mere humans are going to war with nothing more than a cardboard vest and a flashlight, well all they got to compensate for is numbers. QQ or change army lads..
I agree, anyone who wants super-powered units in the Imperial Guard would probably be better off playing SM. It's not the way IG do things, I hope it never is.
24019
Post by: Sieggfried
I am glad that someone is not daydreaming. In a statline that ranges from 0 to 10 and that 3 is human and 4 is superhuman you cant expect elite human (ST) to be equal with a superhuman.
It was back in 3rd ed when i bought the first IG codex and i remember that mass numbers and steel tanks was what it was all about and i reckon it hasnt changed much since then.
Fluffwise stats might not be correct but fluff is fluff and stays there, dont mix things up, not that i wouldnt like to see buffed STs or vets but i think you cant afford it as it is. Maybe in a range from 0 to 20
51866
Post by: Bobthehero
I'd give a 4 WS to the ST, as it is said that they have some augmententations, not as much as a space marine for sure, but enough to make difference agaisn't a regular guardsman.
51859
Post by: Squidmanlolz
Bobthehero wrote:I'd give a 4 WS to the ST, as it is said that they have some augmententations, not as much as a space marine for sure, but enough to make difference agaisn't a regular guardsman.
Hot-shot lasguns are pretty fething strong with an AP3, rapid firing them with 3+ to hit just wouldn't be fair, a squad of stormtroopers could wipe out squads of SM without any major problems.
51866
Post by: Bobthehero
True, but is there an IG player that actually use their ST for something else than suicide drops w/ melta in a squad of 5?
After all, IG is about numbers no? There should be a good reason to take a full squad of ST.
48973
Post by: AtoMaki
Sieggfried wrote:To all those who want WS4 for vets or stromies, 3+ saves, T4 or STR4 and even both, to those who want beefed up Hellguns and the lot just go buy yourselves some Mehreens and stop playing IG.
So, by this logic: To all those who want to play a WW2 style army with massed infantry and tanks marching ever onwards, destroying its enemies with shooting, arty and numbers just go buy yourselves some Flames of War and stop playing IG.
Sieggfried wrote:I reckon its completely pointless to expect a buffed human with the stats of a superhuman (SM doh).
Platoon Commanders are superhuman? Because they are WS4 and as far as i know, they are just random guys appointed to officer rank.
Sieggfried wrote:In the grim darkness of the far future where there's plenty of aliens of untold malice, foul creatures of the worst kind and mere humans are going to war with nothing more than a cardboard vest and a flashlight, well all they got to compensate for is numbers. QQ or change army lads..
Oh come on, when you pitch something against over-the-top stuff and you except to win with that something, then you except over-the-over-the-top from that something. Because frankly, this IG compensating with numbers thing is ridiculous. I mean, we have Orks... Outnumber them please...
13664
Post by: Illumini
Squidmanlolz wrote:Bobthehero wrote:I'd give a 4 WS to the ST, as it is said that they have some augmententations, not as much as a space marine for sure, but enough to make difference agaisn't a regular guardsman.
Hot-shot lasguns are pretty fething strong with an AP3, rapid firing them with 3+ to hit just wouldn't be fair, a squad of stormtroopers could wipe out squads of SM without any major problems.
Erm... stormtroopers have Bs4, so they hit on 3+ with their AP3 guns, meaning that they totally rip through thousands of marines with their overpowered weapons of awesome... or maybe the following three things mean that they suck?
1: S3
2: Cover
3: 16ppm
48860
Post by: Joey
S3 is the big one there. Though against non-MEQ they're even deadlier.
In a recent 3-way game, I deep-striked 3 kaskrin squads with meltaguns slap bang into an eldar army. I'd already blown up all the vehicles with other shooting so they just had to shoot the eldar troops, unfortunately 1 S8 shot wasn't as effective as 2 S3 shots.
But against marines it definately limits their effectiveness.
27727
Post by: Bonde
Squidmanlolz wrote:Bobthehero wrote:I'd give a 4 WS to the ST, as it is said that they have some augmententations, not as much as a space marine for sure, but enough to make difference agaisn't a regular guardsman.
Hot-shot lasguns are pretty fething strong with an AP3, rapid firing them with 3+ to hit just wouldn't be fair, a squad of stormtroopers could wipe out squads of SM without any major problems.
Just to show you that ST's are basically useless when not doing melta-suicide:
A full squad of squad of ST's worth 205+ points deepstrike (succesfully, within range, out of cover) behind a backfield unit of broadsides/lootas/longfangs/devastators/havocs (of course in cover) and fire their hot-shot lasguns (8x2 shots minus two special weapons). 10,6 hit, 3,5 wound, 1,7 enemy troopers die. I they have plasma guns, they will kill 1 when the enemy is in cover, if equipped with meltas, they will kill 0,6 enemy trooper. The enemy unit worth about the same point value fire back with their deffguns/missile launchers/heavy bolters/autocannons at the stormtroopers out of cover and probably anihilate the entire squad. If the ST controlling player wants to risk deepstriking in cover, he will only loose half the squad in the enemy shooting phase, but he will kill even less of the enemy squad due to guys dying to dangerous terrain, and just be anihilated a turn later instead. Either way, it does not end in wiping out the enemy squad at all. For the same points cost, a LRBT could do more damage against the enemy squad from across the board and don't nessesarily die to enemy fire right away.
As a response to other guys ranting: I don't want stormtroopers to be space marines at all, or even die-hard killing machines, I just want them to be somewhat usefull in an agressive role that does not lead to suicide. I do not nessesarily want them to be better, being cheaper would also be good enough for me, but right now, they cost the same as space marines, and are nowhere near as good as a simple tactical squad.
51859
Post by: Squidmanlolz
yeah, a price drop would help a lot more than a stat increase (imho). The guard are usually a defensive army, they usually work well when jumping from cover to cover or holding fortified objectives, I personally like this in game, it also fits the fluff of guardsmen being terribly weak without cover. You can also consider IG as a sort of swarm army, you may need to use expendable platoons of low powe troops to protect higer value units like vets.
48017
Post by: Banzaimash
Cheaper plastic Ogryn boxes. The Bone 'ed should be able to take a lascannon, autocannon or a ripper pistol and power weapon.
24019
Post by: Sieggfried
I think the Bonehead should be able to take Earthsaker cannon with Monstrous creature CCW and +1 A for it, cmon then be realistic
12620
Post by: Che-Vito
[ Taken by the void dragon. [
24019
Post by: Sieggfried
It would maybe fun fluffwise, since in Imperial Glory novel an Ogryn was carrying an autocannon as long as its owner, but still a melee unit with an autocannon wouldnt offer much
42793
Post by: xSoulgrinderx
Id make It able to have any combo of valks/vendettas not just squads of one of each kind only. As well as beefing up the chimera. Like maybe make it able to repair itself, it being all resilient and everything.
Also Make Manticore squadrons of 2, Unique tech priest character and leman russ tank squads count as troops, much like deathwing counts as troops.
46864
Post by: Deadshot
Deathwing are aLOT different from LR squadrons. Imagine the look on a persons face as they ask where your platoons are, and you politely inform them that you are instead taking 2 or 3 HS LR as Troops, along with a few in HS itself.
13920
Post by: Duce
make the punisher twinlinked heavy 20, more likely to get good amount of shots hitting. simple buff which might make it worthwhile a bit more (plus small price drop of say 30 points?).
buff ogryns to have 2 autocannons or something per squad or give them massive shields for cover saves to allow them to get into hand to hand safer?
Ratlings, give them a lasr pointer type effect where if they shoot at a unit (even if can't hurt it) artillery either rerolls scatter if you want, or becomes a hit (second option might need toyed with as quite powerful).
deathstrike launchers need something to make them appeal as much as manticores. maybe make it you get to choose when to fire the shot but never on turn 1, meaning you have to wait 1 turn before getting option to fire it allowing enemy to spread out.
instead of buffing the chimera maybe add in another heavier armoured transport? say 12/12/11 comes with 2x autocannon on a turret or TL autocannon.
Add a new transport for assault guard say 13/12/10 no top hatch, but comes with assault ramp and can contain 35 guardsmen max, meaning you can blob up 30 men a commissar or 2 and priest or hq lord commi.
I like the quarter maste ridea for advisor. maybe make him allow D3 squads to become twinlinked or gain 1 extra shot than normally allowed, or even 1 gun fires twice, but doesn't work on artillery to keep from masses of blasts appearing?
Stormtroopers need buffed I agree, maybe make them never scatter when deepstriking to add the elite aspct and also making them much more reliable. also maybe a ''Well trained'' rule that lets them reroll dangerous terrain if dropping into cover?
Rough riders maybe allow them to always use the lance on firs tround of combat not just first charge. also maybe allow them to ''turbo boost'' 19 inches to allow them move speed?
maybe make the TL autocannon russ into a TL lascannon russ to give it a non competing with hydras role? means giving it a hull lascannon really helps its anti tank.
lord commi should get a buff ot make him more than a take for camo cloak option. maybe make him an upgrade for command squads for more CC and a commissar type buff to the army?
primis psyker needs more powers, then he could be of more use? maybe if him and a astropath are on the table you can control when you want reserves, no rolling due to such a well sorted psychic signal?
allow sgts to take lasguns,
alter how wounds effect heavy weapon teams so you don't lose entire stands to single lascannon shots etc, so people will use them more. maybe even a 4+ one crew member dies not both? or give them the option of fortified to add cover save. maybe +1 to make for 3+ saves
46864
Post by: Deadshot
My thoughts are in all the colours. Duce wrote:make the punisher twinlinked heavy 20, more likely to get good amount of shots hitting. simple buff which might make it worthwhile a bit more (plus small price drop of say 30 points?).
I would say one or the other. Points drop would be better, as the Punisher is not TL. Besides, TL H20 means 15~ hits at Str 5. That is going to shred any horde worth their Fleshboror, Shoota/Lasguns. Combined with -30pts is going to make it the premium in Anti Infantry, and make Hellhounds and such irrelavent other than for extremly low points, or places like CoD where cover saves are all the rage.
buff ogryns to have 2 autocannons or something per squad or give them massive shields for cover saves to allow them to get into hand to hand safer?
SS might be a bit OP, so maybe a Combat Shiled, so a 6++? If you want cover, go with a 5+ cover. For modelling you could use Rhino front plates and Land Raider dorrs, and Chimera hatches and the like.
Ratlings, give them a lasr pointer type effect where if they shoot at a unit (even if can't hurt it) artillery either rerolls scatter if you want, or becomes a hit (second option might need toyed with as quite powerful).
Why not just give them a watered down Markerlight?
deathstrike launchers need something to make them appeal as much as manticores. maybe make it you get to choose when to fire the shot but never on turn 1, meaning you have to wait 1 turn before getting option to fire it allowing enemy to spread out
How about you have to note what turn you want to come in on, like with the Scheduled Bombardment in Apoc and each Weapon destroyed, or destroyed result delays it 1 turn?
instead of buffing the chimera maybe add in another heavier armoured transport? say 12/12/11 comes with 2x autocannon on a turret or TL autocannon.
I don't have an opinion.
Add a new transport for assault guard say 13/12/10 no top hatch, but comes with assault ramp and can contain 35 guardsmen max, meaning you can blob up 30 men a commissar or 2 and priest or hq lord commi.
Not, definately not. Nothing outside of Apoc should be able to carry that much. Not only that but it would break Objective games. 30 troop models flying around in 13/12/11 transport, controlling any objectives, then having a full blob to kill to clear it.
I like the quarter maste ridea for advisor. maybe make him allow D3 squads to become twinlinked or gain 1 extra shot than normally allowed, or even 1 gun fires twice, but doesn't work on artillery to keep from masses of blasts appearing?
I don't have an opinion.
Stormtroopers need buffed I agree, maybe make them never scatter when deepstriking to add the elite aspct and also making them much more reliable. also maybe a ''Well trained'' rule that lets them reroll dangerous terrain if dropping into cover?
One or the other, one or the other.
Rough riders maybe allow them to always use the lance on firs tround of combat not just first charge. also maybe allow them to ''turbo boost'' 19 inches to allow them move speed?
The lances are hard to maneuver around, but easy when charging to spear someone. But not turbo boost. 18" move+fleet+charge?
maybe make the TL autocannon russ into a TL lascannon russ to give it a non competing with hydras role? means giving it a hull lascannon really helps its anti tank.
There is already a TL LC LR. It is the Leman Russ Annihilator from FW.
lord commi should get a buff ot make him more than a take for camo cloak option. maybe make him an upgrade for command squads for more CC and a commissar type buff to the army?
I prefer him the way he is.
primis psyker needs more powers, then he could be of more use? maybe if him and a astropath are on the table you can control when you want reserves, no rolling due to such a well sorted psychic signal?
Maybe if there is Astropaths on the tale, you get +1 ior -1 reserves for each Astropath over the first. And he can extend the range of a PBS' powers by 6" if he joins them.
allow sgts to take lasguns,
Yes. Give it to them as a standard. Like saying they have a Lasgun or laspistol.
alter how wounds effect heavy weapon teams so you don't lose entire stands to single lascannon shots etc, so people will use them more. maybe even a 4+ one crew member dies not both? or give them the option of fortified to add cover save. maybe +1 to make for 3+ saves
Just limit them to being ID by weapons that have Blasts/Templates.
31819
Post by: ImpGuardPanzies
oooo pretty colors
36809
Post by: loota boy
xSoulgrinderx wrote:Id make It able to have any combo of valks/vendettas not just squads of one of each kind only. As well as beefing up the chimera. Like maybe make it able to repair itself, it being all resilient and everything.
Also Make Manticore squadrons of 2, Unique tech priest character and leman russ tank squads count as troops, much like deathwing counts as troops.
While we're at it, lets drop gaurdsman down to three points, you can't really take a proper hoard as it is now. Also, give blobs free powerweapons, and let hydra squadrons shoot as multiple targets. Vendettas should also get the option for lascannon sponsons, they get the option for anti-hoard sponsons, they need anti-tank ones too! Also, lower manticore ap to 1, they can't really take out marines very well at the moment. And, hey, just drop the points for all the tanks by 15. Sounds fair, right?
48860
Post by: Joey
loota boy wrote:xSoulgrinderx wrote:Id make It able to have any combo of valks/vendettas not just squads of one of each kind only. As well as beefing up the chimera. Like maybe make it able to repair itself, it being all resilient and everything.
Also Make Manticore squadrons of 2, Unique tech priest character and leman russ tank squads count as troops, much like deathwing counts as troops.
While we're at it, lets drop gaurdsman down to three points, you can't really take a proper hoard as it is now. Also, give blobs free powerweapons, and let hydra squadrons shoot as multiple targets. Vendettas should also get the option for lascannon sponsons, they get the option for anti-hoard sponsons, they need anti-tank ones too! Also, lower manticore ap to 1, they can't really take out marines very well at the moment. And, hey, just drop the points for all the tanks by 15. Sounds fair, right?
Also commissars should be free.
And taking Master of Ordinance should mean nothing ever scatters.
And Master of Ordinance should free.
46864
Post by: Deadshot
Ogryns shouyld have Str 8, T 8, W10, and a rerollable 2+/2++, with a rerollable 2+ FNP that cannot be cancelled, for 20pts. They are that resilient.
Leman Russ Punishers should have BS 10 and H100. You cannot fire that many shots and miss more than a handfull.
Creed should automatically allow you to pass all orders, within a 10000" bubble you gain every USR except Vulknerable to blats/Templates, SNP and Swarms.
They should be able to take 1 Emperor Titan for free, per 500pts in the game.
48860
Post by: Joey
Special Charector-Private Baldrick
WS-1
BS-1
S-1
T-1
I-1
Ld-4
Equipment-lasrifle, las pistol, CCW
Special Rules-Cunning plan
Cunning Plan
Private Baldrick may attempt a Cunning Plan once per game at the start of a friendly unit's shooting phase.
When Cunning Plan is used, roll a D6. On 2-6 Private Baldrick's plan fails and he is executed for being an idiot. On a 1 Private Baldrick's plan succeeds, D6 enemy units (including monsterous creatures and vehicles) are removed by the friendly player.
Baldrick is such an arse that should his plan succeed, he will find a way of getting himself killed in the process. Remove Private Baldrick from play even if his plan succeeded.
49264
Post by: rob-or-ross
Right.
Heavy weapons teams.
I have been thinking about them more since last time.
They should have more options, they should definitely get the option of these standard weapons:
Multilaser
Assault cannon
Multi-melta
Heavy stubber
Plasma cannon
Heavy flamer
How about some new ones too?
GMG, grenade machine gun - like the special weapon but heavy 3 with a slight range buff.
HK missile, single use then they can only use their lasguns.
Same setup, 2 wounds, can only be instant killed by template weapons.
How about this:
Heavy weapons teams get relentless but only if they still have 2 wounds.
The fluff would be that when there are two of them they are a slick unit, well trained with the skills and drills to put down massive volumes of fire.
When one of them gets taken out the gun still works but it is much harder for one guy to get set up when his unit is on the move.
Maybe even let them shoot twice if they have 2 wounds.
*EDIT*
I suppose then it wouldn't be relentless, it would be:
Skills and drills: While the heavy weapons team still has 2 wounds all heavy weapons count as rapid-fire.
Perhaps make that a totally new thing called a Veteran Heavy Weapons Team, access to more weapon types, few more points and Skills and drills.
Heavy weapons embedded in Veteran squads are automatically Veteran Heavy Weapons Teams.
I really like the sound of that.
51859
Post by: Squidmanlolz
Maybe sniper rifles could be rapid fire, however lose they "sniper" rules within 12" so it would be a little bit more similar to a lasgun, they are based of of the standard lasgun design.
50526
Post by: Deckardt
1st post to Dakka ever, hallo to everybody.
I read all previous posts and I found ideas I really love so I included them again together with mines, no offence intended to their actual owners (I still have to figure out how to quote).
HQ
- orders stay, it's a very good system
- reduce cost of commissar lord. Nice model, nice idea, overcosted
- reduce cost of priest. Nice model, nice idea, overcosted. Allow him to join ogryns.
- Special characters: Schaffer, Kage, Gaunt and I really love the idea of Cain and Jurgen exaclty as posted, just give Jurgen BS 4 as he's a very good shot!
- I don't think the name of the CCS or the PCS really matters, everybody can make up his own ranking system. That's just a placeholder.
ELITES
- ogryns: get rending or option for power weapon for bone head, maybe 5pt drop each.
- storm troopers: 12 points per model, definitely no WS 4 as I assume it's easier to be better shots than deadlier hth fighters. As somebody else already pointed out, their superior hth training is reflected by having pistol and ccw (and knowing how to use them together). Hellgun (not hotshot) need some change. First of all, it cannot be a (mediocre) marine hunting rifle but something to fight the most common enemies (fluff wise and not tabletop) which are not Chaos Space Marines: R18 S3 AP4 A2. This I think is the right compromise: more powerful than a lasgun, more useful than a bolter at mid range (12"-18") against most medium targets, less useful than a bolter at short range except for its intended targets (IMO, T4 TA4). Assault makes up for lack of range and allow for swift actions from STs.
Also no pre-purchase of Special Operation because the way it is now adds lots of flexibility. That's why cost 12 and not 10 each.
FAST ATTACK
- rough riders: if you want bikes just model them on bikes. I would not use the bikes rules though as it seems difficult to use a lance driving a bike. But allow I and S bonus in 1st round of any combat or give them laspistol AND ccw.
- Vendetta 30pts more expensive, maybe Heavy support choice
- sentinels: 1st squadron does not use the FOC slot
- armored sentinels: 10pts cheaper.
- Hounds family 20 pts cheaper.
- vendetta/valkyrie able to also fire side HBs free on the move and at separate targets. Otherwise useless cool addition to model .
- clear rules for Valk/vend sponsoon LOS angles
TROOPS
- chimera: introduce a version of old rule: 3 (only 1 side due to single target rules) lasgun fire from enclosed hull, 3 weapons may fire from top hatch but then counts as open topped for that turn. OR just 5-10 pts more expensive
- Chimera option for 11 side armor at extra cost (15-20 pts)
- storm bolter as special weapon (SAW like), just for fun
- heavy stubber heavy weapon
- multi laser heavy weapon?
- grenade launcher: A2. A1 would be ok with me but now is shadowed by other specials so needs some flavor.
- doctrines must come back to allow customization. Warning, need careful balancing. Definitely not codex spam as marines.
- HW squads are 2 model, allow removal of 3 loaders as it make sense to me that the loader would replace a OOA gunner. Or just give eternal warrior only to avoid silly ID, but sounds odd. Fix wrong grenades price (or remove, they don't need).
- conscripts: 1pt cheaper, flamer and GL option as 4th ED. Commissar as upgrade.
- all commissars can take fist
- penal legion: combined squads and choose the special rule
- vox casters: unlimited range of orders, still LOS is needed where applicable
- veterans are fine as they are, it is correct they have 3 special weapons and STs only 2 because veterans have "collected" them in the battlefield.
- lasgun option to sergeants
- shotgun option to everyone, just for converting fun and themed lists.
- off topic: shotguns, pistols and special weapons plastic sprue
- reduce costs of heavy flamers to 10 pts
- SWS: fix grenades issues: gives standard frag and give krak option
HEAVY SUPPORT
- deathsitrike: apocalypse only
- manticore: apocalypse only
- bassie: reduce blind spot
- punisher: AP 5 or 4. such a big gun! Also 20pts cheaper tank. Cool idea but now is useless.
- exterminator 5-10 pts cheaper as cannot compete with Hydra
- vanquisher: AP1, maybe co-axial gun
out
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Post by: Deadshot
All of those suggestions look good, bar the Manticore and Deathstrike suggestions. They are good in normal gamers, and there aslready is a more powerful, apoc version of the Deathstrike. It is the Vortex Missile. Manticores are not OP and should remain in 40k.
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Post by: A Kvlt Ghost
Other than a lasgun option for the sarge I can't say as I want much to change, honestly.
I'd like ST a lot more if their hotshot lasguns were assault weapons, and I think the flyers are underpriced. Be nice to see the Vulture added, and some of the Death Korps weapons (thudd gun, heavy mortar, TL heavy stubber teams) for people who want to use the FW minis.
I don't have any major wishlists or complaints, though.
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Post by: Blackhoof
Deadshot wrote:My thoughts are in all the colours.
Duce wrote:make the punisher twinlinked heavy 20, more likely to get good amount of shots hitting. simple buff which might make it worthwhile a bit more (plus small price drop of say 30 points?).
I would say one or the other. Points drop would be better, as the Punisher is not TL. Besides, TL H20 means 15~ hits at Str 5. That is going to shred any horde worth their Fleshboror, Shoota/Lasguns. Combined with -30pts is going to make it the premium in Anti Infantry, and make Hellhounds and such irrelavent other than for extremly low points, or places like CoD where cover saves are all the rage.
buff ogryns to have 2 autocannons or something per squad or give them massive shields for cover saves to allow them to get into hand to hand safer?
SS might be a bit OP, so maybe a Combat Shiled, so a 6++? If you want cover, go with a 5+ cover. For modelling you could use Rhino front plates and Land Raider dorrs, and Chimera hatches and the like.
Ratlings, give them a lasr pointer type effect where if they shoot at a unit (even if can't hurt it) artillery either rerolls scatter if you want, or becomes a hit (second option might need toyed with as quite powerful).
Why not just give them a watered down Markerlight?
deathstrike launchers need something to make them appeal as much as manticores. maybe make it you get to choose when to fire the shot but never on turn 1, meaning you have to wait 1 turn before getting option to fire it allowing enemy to spread out
How about you have to note what turn you want to come in on, like with the Scheduled Bombardment in Apoc and each Weapon destroyed, or destroyed result delays it 1 turn?
instead of buffing the chimera maybe add in another heavier armoured transport? say 12/12/11 comes with 2x autocannon on a turret or TL autocannon.
I don't have an opinion.
Add a new transport for assault guard say 13/12/10 no top hatch, but comes with assault ramp and can contain 35 guardsmen max, meaning you can blob up 30 men a commissar or 2 and priest or hq lord commi.
Not, definately not. Nothing outside of Apoc should be able to carry that much. Not only that but it would break Objective games. 30 troop models flying around in 13/12/11 transport, controlling any objectives, then having a full blob to kill to clear it.
I like the quarter maste ridea for advisor. maybe make him allow D3 squads to become twinlinked or gain 1 extra shot than normally allowed, or even 1 gun fires twice, but doesn't work on artillery to keep from masses of blasts appearing?
I don't have an opinion.
Stormtroopers need buffed I agree, maybe make them never scatter when deepstriking to add the elite aspct and also making them much more reliable. also maybe a ''Well trained'' rule that lets them reroll dangerous terrain if dropping into cover?
One or the other, one or the other.
Rough riders maybe allow them to always use the lance on firs tround of combat not just first charge. also maybe allow them to ''turbo boost'' 19 inches to allow them move speed?
The lances are hard to maneuver around, but easy when charging to spear someone. But not turbo boost. 18" move+fleet+charge?
maybe make the TL autocannon russ into a TL lascannon russ to give it a non competing with hydras role? means giving it a hull lascannon really helps its anti tank.
There is already a TL LC LR. It is the Leman Russ Annihilator from FW.
lord commi should get a buff ot make him more than a take for camo cloak option. maybe make him an upgrade for command squads for more CC and a commissar type buff to the army?
I prefer him the way he is.
primis psyker needs more powers, then he could be of more use? maybe if him and a astropath are on the table you can control when you want reserves, no rolling due to such a well sorted psychic signal?
Maybe if there is Astropaths on the tale, you get +1 ior -1 reserves for each Astropath over the first. And he can extend the range of a PBS' powers by 6" if he joins them.
allow sgts to take lasguns,
Yes. Give it to them as a standard. Like saying they have a Lasgun or laspistol.
alter how wounds effect heavy weapon teams so you don't lose entire stands to single lascannon shots etc, so people will use them more. maybe even a 4+ one crew member dies not both? or give them the option of fortified to add cover save. maybe +1 to make for 3+ saves
Just limit them to being ID by weapons that have Blasts/Templates.
my eyes, they bleed!
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Post by: Captain Roderick
So, I skipped some of the lovely bickering a few pages back but here's my thoughts, sorry if I'm repeating what others have said:
On the HWS front, giving each base the Eternal Warrior and Vulnerable to Blasts/Templates USR's seems both balanced and would fit within the rules - shouldn't even require a points change. Since Eternal Warrior only applies to the Instant Death rule, doubling wounds from Blasts/Templates would still kill 'em just as easy.
Ogryn squads being allowed Commissars as an upgrade seems to be not only a good game mechanic but also quite fluffy.
Stormtroopers with WS4 does make sense to me, they should be on par with a Junior Officer in skill.
To fix Hellguns, take inspiration from Dark Heresy:
R 18" S3 AP4 Rapid Fire Tearing*
*Tearing weapons cause horrific wounds. Such weapons allow the user to re-roll the to-wound dice.
Hotshot lasguns should be left as Sniper Rifles, A La Gaunt's Ghosts & 3rd-ed Codex onwards.
Otherwise, I think most of the current codex is quite balanced, apart from the obvious problems with Elites. I like combined squads, but I'd like there to be an option for Assault Squads again, to represent crazy feral troopers. Maybe an Assault Platoon option in the troops section, with a divide between Line Platoons (Inf squads, HWS, Conscripts) and Assault Platoons (Assault Squads, SWS)?
Manticores are fine as they are. HE and AP are two different types of warhead in RL for a reason. The rules shouldn't all be about killing MEQ - after all, the guard mainly fights other humans or Orks.
Doctrines back, in terms of unlocking certain units and changes to the force org chart, would be cool as well. Fielding a Storm Trooper, Rough Rider or Armoured Company with the right HQ choices would be fluffy and cool. Probably not that competitive, but fluffy and fun.
The 'Commissar as standard' idea for Conscripts sounds pretty good too. Lord Commissars are just a little too vulnerable as is.
Possibly more advisors/supply chain features would be good as well. Instead of taking a Master of Ordnance, there should be an Artillery Spotter option somewhere - a Salamander, SWS or HWS with Infiltrate that can call in strikes from off-board. I always find it a bit weird having Mobile Artillery within punching distance.
*Edit* Perhaps an Imperial Tactician advisor? Gives Preferred Enemy to Guard units within 12" (except Ogryns and Ratlings?) Or maybe different Advisors give access to different orders for the CC?
Oh, and one last thing - voxes increasing range of orders, great idea. Makes so much more sense!
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Post by: Duce
I claim innocence in the beeding eyes, it was Deadshot who use my post to comment on, not me :p
regardnig my comments, their all just half mused ideas, so don't take any as thats what it should be.
I would like some fo the othe runits you hear people suggest liek the commissar school squad, it could make for a nice HTH unit without stepping on proper CC armies toes, maybe take them as a bodyguard squad for the lord commissar?
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Post by: Agamemnon2
AtoMaki wrote:Sieggfried wrote:To all those who want WS4 for vets or stromies, 3+ saves, T4 or STR4 and even both, to those who want beefed up Hellguns and the lot just go buy yourselves some Mehreens and stop playing IG.
So, by this logic: To all those who want to play a WW2 style army with massed infantry and tanks marching ever onwards, destroying its enemies with shooting, arty and numbers just go buy yourselves some Flames of War and stop playing IG.
Pretty much. That's what I already recommend to anyone wanting to start an IG army. "Decent people shouldn't live here. They'd be happier somewhere else."
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Post by: Banzaimash
The doctrine system of the previous codex was pretty cool, as it allowed you to really theme your army. Also, make vets elites and slightly better, with them being stealthy sabotage style light infantry and the stormtroopers more 'kick down the door and blow it up' style heavy shock infantry. Heavy stubbers as special weapons would be great too.
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Post by: Squidmanlolz
The doctrine system didn't work fairly IMO, it definatly wasn't as stream-lined as GW has been trying to make the game. I definatly don't expect to see that one coming back from the codex graveyard.
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Post by: Sille
Cheaper ogryns
More Techpriest options he shud be abel to use Artificer Armour
And The Techpriest shud be abel to use whatever handheld weapon he likes for a certan pointcost offcourse.
He shud be abel to change his servitors into automatons losing the repair abilty but they can carry any heavy weapon and have a bs 2, and front armor of 12.
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Post by: moom241
Squidmanlolz wrote:The doctrine system didn't work fairly IMO, it definatly wasn't as stream-lined as GW has been trying to make the game. I definatly don't expect to see that one coming back from the codex graveyard.
Grammar Commissar Moom will definitely execute for such misspellings.
Back on topic. Some kind of invulnerable save would be nice for the Ogryns, even if it's 6++. Vendettas seem a bit too strong, or maybe I'm just posturing.
I have no opinion on doctrines.
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Post by: Squidmanlolz
moom241 wrote:Squidmanlolz wrote:The doctrine system didn't work fairly IMO, it definatly wasn't as stream-lined as GW has been trying to make the game. I definatly don't expect to see that one coming back from the codex graveyard.
Grammar Commissar Moom will definitely execute for such misspellings.
Back on topic. Some kind of invulnerable save would be nice for the Ogryns, even if it's 6++. Vendettas seem a bit too strong, or maybe I'm just posturing.
I have no opinion on doctrines.
Vendettas DO require a fair amount of skill and practice to use effectively, perhaps a point increase of 30~50?
Orgyns need a boost, not sure how though
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Post by: Joey
Blobs need to be more competative with veterans.
Don't know how, though. Some kind of special rule, a stat increase wouldn't work. Or point reduction.
49264
Post by: rob-or-ross
PILE OF BODIES:
When fighting against Imperial Guard in close combat the enemy first has to climb up a fairly tall pile of dead guardsmen.
The surviving guard therefore fight with the advantage of higher ground.
In CC blobs always gain the same advantage as if they had charged into combat that turn.
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Post by: JamesMclaren123
rob-or-ross wrote:PILE OF BODIES:
When fighting against Imperial Guard in close combat the enemy first has to climb up a fairly tall pile of dead guardsmen.
The surviving guard therefore fight with the advantage of higher ground.
In CC blobs always gain the same advantage as if they had charged into combat that turn.
on a simmilar vein (but but equally as... useful?)
PULL THE PINS!!!
all gaurdsmen in closecombat pull all the pins from thier grenades and per gaurdsman
frag - d3 str 3 AP - hits
Krak d3 str 6 AP 4 Hits
Meltabombs str 8 Ap 2 Hits
all gaurdsmen are removed as casuties
i thought this might be a Chenkov thing to do
P.S. Merry Christmas BTW
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Post by: Joey
rob-or-ross wrote:PILE OF BODIES:
When fighting against Imperial Guard in close combat the enemy first has to climb up a fairly tall pile of dead guardsmen.
The surviving guard therefore fight with the advantage of higher ground.
In CC blobs always gain the same advantage as if they had charged into combat that turn.
That could work as an order.
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Post by: moom241
Drowning in bodies: For every five imperial guardsman or conscript attacking a single unit, they receive one wound automatically, all saves allowed. Any good?
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Post by: gendoikari87
Something more from the adeptus Mechanicus. THAT is what I want to see from the next codex.
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Post by: Sieggfried
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Post by: Billagio
An official Armored Company Ruleset. Or a special character that makes Russes useable in non Heavy slots
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Post by: Che-Vito
< Taken by the void dragon. >
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Post by: AtoMaki
Che-Vito wrote:Billagio wrote:An official Armored Company Ruleset. Or a special character that makes Russes useable in non Heavy slots
Is the potential for 9 Leman Russes, 9 Hellhounds, and 41 Chimeras in one list...not enough opportunity for mech?
Nope. Because 32 Leman Russ tanks (2 HQ, 3 Elites, 18 Troops, 9 HS) are better than 9  !
Joey wrote:Blobs need to be more competative with veterans.
Don't know how, though. Some kind of special rule, a stat increase wouldn't work. Or point reduction.
Platoon level upgrades maybe? Like the old doctrines, but only for Platoons.
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Post by: rob-or-ross
I was thinking last night and I think there is an opportunity for a lot of that FOC messing about.
Characters you may only take one of (with a cost big enough to balance the game) that allow the following things:
Rough riders count as troops.
(make motorcycle guard models)
Sentinel squadrons count as Elites.
Tanks count as Troops.
Valkyrie can be taken as a dediated transport for stormtroopers but is no longer a fast support choice.
Vulture is now a heavy support choice.
Hell hounds can be taken as a heavy support option.
One super heavy choice can be taken in place of all heavy support slots.
That plus the "veterean HWS" idea I had earlier, better Storm trooper models, cheaper Ogryns with commisars, and perhaps jetpack troopers would be awesome.
Thant kind of thing...
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Post by: Sille
would skittari uppgrade make vetrans op? like bionics that inc int and str to 4 whit inbuilt carapace armor?
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Post by: Joey
LOL Leman Russes being taken as troops.
Maybe if Mat Ward writes it, but I think you'd struggle to find an opponant.
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Post by: rob-or-ross
Nothing is overpowered if it has the correct points value.
Leman Russ as troops is fine, you will have approximately 6 tanks for 1000 points, against other IG opponents they could just deep strike a load of Strom troopers and Marbo and melta/dem 3 in turn one and Vendetta the rest to death.
It is just there to give flexibility to the already flexible IG.
A properly formatted IG codex would have every unit and character being worth taking but being really good in the right combinations.
Or lists that are brilliant if you are lucky and horrible if you aren't, I know the current meta isn't fond of that but I think it is fun.
Deepstriking, rolling for stats before the game, Catachans rolling to see if their Commissars make it to the battle field etc.
I found that stuff fun.
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Post by: Squidmanlolz
Troop Leman Russes, It's like having mobile fortresses in objective games. I would sell nearly all of my infantry off if this happened in the next codex.
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Post by: Joey
rob-or-ross wrote:Nothing is overpowered if it has the correct points value.
Leman Russ as troops is fine, you will have approximately 6 tanks for 1000 points, against other IG opponents they could just deep strike a load of Strom troopers and Marbo and melta/dem 3 in turn one and Vendetta the rest to death.
It is just there to give flexibility to the already flexible IG.
6 leman russes would knock out anything at 1000 points, especially if you gave a few of them lascannons. Seriously it's silly.
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Post by: Squidmanlolz
Joey wrote:rob-or-ross wrote:Nothing is overpowered if it has the correct points value.
Leman Russ as troops is fine, you will have approximately 6 tanks for 1000 points, against other IG opponents they could just deep strike a load of Strom troopers and Marbo and melta/dem 3 in turn one and Vendetta the rest to death.
It is just there to give flexibility to the already flexible IG.
6 leman russes would knock out anything at 1000 points, especially if you gave a few of them lascannons. Seriously it's silly.
I believe IG could easily take them out at 1000 points of only one unit of infantry (I am estimating point values)
I think that for 1000 points a guard army can take 2 infantry platoons with 2 infantry squads each and 5 heavy weapon squads each, that's 15 lascannons per platoon, 30 in one unit. I doubt 6 lemans can kill that many guardsmen ( the unit has ~84 wounds total). given turn one, a single platoon might (if lucky) Destroy all 6 lemans on turn 1
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Post by: AtoMaki
Joey wrote:rob-or-ross wrote:Nothing is overpowered if it has the correct points value.
Leman Russ as troops is fine, you will have approximately 6 tanks for 1000 points, against other IG opponents they could just deep strike a load of Strom troopers and Marbo and melta/dem 3 in turn one and Vendetta the rest to death.
It is just there to give flexibility to the already flexible IG.
6 leman russes would knock out anything at 1000 points, especially if you gave a few of them lascannons. Seriously it's silly.
Yeah because 6 Leman Russes can knock out so much stuff now... But no, they can't, they just shoot for two phases and then get their big fat *sses multi-charged and wiped out. And rememeber: Leman Russes cannot capture objectives, because they are vehicles.
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Post by: Blackhoof
Making an ENTIRE army of vehicles would ruin nearly everything an opponent brings to the table unless they tailor their lists against it.
That horde of boyz you brought? Might as well remove them now unless you brought a PK nob.
Those hormagaunt and termi swarms? Pfft, forget them, they cannot do jack.
All your infantry except the guy with a heavy weapon? Dead, useless, pointless.
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Post by: AtoMaki
Blackhoof wrote:
All your infantry except the guy with a heavy weapon? Dead, useless, pointless.
Except the guys with any weapons of at least S4, because they can glance the poor LR to death. And i dunno if there are anything out there that don't have something S4 in hands (Maybe Grots? Unupgraded Hormas?).
And i still cannot see how all-vehicle armies could capture objectives...
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Post by: Sille
i kinda think it would be op whit so many russes, but if the tank is a troop choice it would be able to capture a point...
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Post by: AtoMaki
Sille wrote:i kinda think it woul be op whit so many russes, but if the tank is a troop choice it would be able to capture a point...
Vehicles cannot capture objectives. Check the "Scoring Units" section of the rulebook.
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Post by: Sille
forgott about that rule xD, but then again the rulebook can be changed 2 to the next codex=P
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Post by: moom241
Then again Hitler could pop out of his grave and eat my shoes. I like the idea of tanks for troop choices, for those who need to compensate just that little bit more.
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Post by: Squidmanlolz
More flyers!!!
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Post by: rob-or-ross
Don't forget, 6 tanks can only fire at 6 targets a turn. Spread the boys out, charge in and krak grenade them to bits.
Variety is fun.
I'd love playing against all tanks.
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Post by: Sille
think the lightning strike fighter shud become a normal fast attack flyer=) But my biggest wich is for a fix of the Techpriest.
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Post by: Salted Diamond
I field Rough Riders (2 squads of Tallarn and custom Cadian) so I'd like to see some more options for them. Namely can add commissars and/or priest upgrades and +1 toughness they way bikes do (so not for ID).
Can put Commissar/Priest/CCS on horses the way that SM can ride bikes. Would unlock Rough Riders as troops. Not alot of people would use the troop options, but a CCS/Commissar would probably get some use in this manner if they got the +1 toughtness.
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Post by: Deadshot
In tthe FAQ it allows Junior officers to order Commanders. Ithink they should test on 3D6 or reroll successful tests if tgey want to do that.
"Sir, move up on that hill! Move, move, move!"
"WTF you say Corporal?"
"Nothing, sir!"
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Post by: Joey
Deadshot wrote:In tthe FAQ it allows Junior officers to order Commanders. Ithink they should test on 3D6 or reroll successful tests if tgey want to do that.
"Sir, move up on that hill! Move, move, move!"
"WTF you say Corporal?"
"Nothing, sir!"
"Sir, the hill at co-ordinates xyz would offer a superior field of fire on the target"
Nothing silly about it at all.
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Post by: Captain Roderick
They even clarify it in the FAQ - it's phrased a bit nicer is all
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Post by: Soltari
Sergeant Bastonne as an upgrade for Storm Trooper Sgt, just as it is +Melta Bombs, -10 points.
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Post by: martin74
I would like to see these two options:
1. Salamander Vehicle: 12/10/10 open topped, fast, multi laser and heavy bolter. Can carry 6 troops: Possibly the same points as a Chimera with same options. I think the fast and open top offset each other well.
2. Some sort of option to take a medic in the infantry squads. Maybe you gain one medic if you have an infantry platoon with 5 squads.
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