Quite the simple question, aside from Daemons and Daemon princes, who would you say is the strongest living person in 40K?

To keep it simple, as long as they're still in a codex, they can be used (like Eldrad).

And by strongest, I mean in a one on one fight.


I'm saying Lelith, her entire purpose is to be the most badass fighter alive.

EDIT

NO DRAIGO

Do you mean with character is the best?

Or model?

Fluff-wise or stat?

Fluff wise, which is why the topic says "fluff discussion"

Well, I'll just say Draigo before anybody else does and hurry this thread's degeneration into awfulness.

Off to the pub now, have a good thread...

Ghaz, Draigo, Lelith,Lucius, Trazyn, Imhotekh, there are alot of very powerful beings in the 40k universe

English Assassin wrote:Well, I'll just say Draigo before anybody else does and hurry this thread's degeneration into awfulness.

Off to the pub now, have a good thread...

Lysander can be a pain too. Just sayin

The Sanguinor.
Slaying a Bloodthirster on your own with only a jump pack, becuase your blade is pierced in him is, well, totally epic!

Ghazgull, Swarmlord, Imotekh

Lord Magnus wrote:Ghaz, Draigo, Lelith,Lucius, Trazyn, Imhotekh, there are alot of very powerful beings in the 40k universe

Well yeah, I think every single codex has their one dude who can be called strongest in the codex.

Question is, who is the strongest of them.


Which is why I'm disallowing Daemons, since Angron would easily win that.

EDIT: Or Genghis Khan: Khorn's greatest champion.

Marbo... admit it, no other charcter has the balls of steel or the awesomeness he has.

This should be interesting to watch.

Defending Lelith:

She's one of, if not thee greatest Wych out of all Dark Eldar, Wych's being bred essentially for fighting alone in fights numbering many or few. She does this, without using the combat enhancing drugs everyone else uses, and is so adebt at her craft that she can use her very -hair- as a god damned weapon.

Be honest, would lelith: 3 wounds, ws 9, strength 3, toughness 3, sv 6+ - really kill Swarmlord: 5 wounds, ws 9, strength 6, toughness 6, sv 3+.

Hornifex wrote:Be honest, would lelith: 3 wounds, ws 9, strength 3, toughness 3, sv 6+ - really kill Swarmlord: 5 wounds, ws 9, strength 6, toughness 6, sv 3+.

We're talkin' fluff here.

Though, what were her rules again, for her staggering number of hits? Seriouslly, I don't have my codex with me.

Forgot, fluffwise I'd probably go Lelith or Ghazgul

Ghaz gets my vote.

Cuz' orks r' made fer crumpin!

Yarrick, for bitch slapping Ghaz and stealing his arm, you've been ninja'd.

Draigo hands down.

Fluffwise, I'd say one of the Necron lords. from the fluff, everytime someone was dueled, they got tired, and lost, despite landing death blows. It's hard to beat something that Repairs itself almost instantly, doesn't tire, and Doesn't feel pain.

Mephiston.

He has already died twice.

BeefCakeSoup wrote:Mephiston.

He has already died twice.

True, but Draigo literally lives in the warp and is laughing about it...

Sasori wrote:Fluffwise, I'd say one of the Necron lords. from the fluff, everytime someone was dueled, they got tired, and lost, despite landing death blows. It's hard to beat something that Repairs itself almost instantly, doesn't tire, and Doesn't feel pain.

True, but, could they repair, say a severed head? We know they're capable of helaing wounds, but whole parts gone?

Namica wrote:

Sasori wrote:Fluffwise, I'd say one of the Necron lords. from the fluff, everytime someone was dueled, they got tired, and lost, despite landing death blows. It's hard to beat something that Repairs itself almost instantly, doesn't tire, and Doesn't feel pain.

True, but, could they repair, say a severed head? We know they're capable of helaing wounds, but whole parts gone?

Yes. they've repaired worse than severed heads. One of the fluff pieces talks about Necrons picking their heads back up, and arms crawling back, and reattaching themselves.

Abaddon. Or Lucius.

Draigo.

There is frankly no other correct answer, speaking in terms of fluff.

You know those Daemons you aren't allowing?

Draigo regularly curbstomps them. In the Warp, where they are at their most powerful.

He even manages this feat against extremely powerful Greater Daemons like M'kaechan.

I'm going with C'tan Shards. Sorry but now that it looks like the Emperor had that much trouble not with a starved Void Dragon but a starved shard of the Void Dragon, which he admits he couldn't kill.

Swarmlord, Wazdakka, Ghazzy, Yarrick, Draigo or Lelith.

King Pariah wrote:I'm going with C'tan Shards. Sorry but now that it looks like the Emperor had that much trouble not with a starved Void Dragon but a starved shard of the Void Dragon, which he admits he couldn't kill.

You make a valid point.

Yep, C'tan Shard of the Void Dragon for the win.

Well, isn't the main reason Draigo is kicking so much ass, that they are daemons and he was bred specificly to kill demons? He wouldn't exactly do as well against Thrakka.

And I said no demons, because fluff has some demons WAY ahead of what Draigo has defeated.

Namica wrote:Well, isn't the main reason Draigo is kicking so much ass, that they are daemons and he was bred specificly to kill demons? He wouldn't exactly do as well against Thrakka.

And I said no demons, because fluff has some demons WAY ahead of what Draigo has defeated.

He probably would do fairly well...

Fluff wise, Draigo by far. His plot armour renders him practically indestructible against any opponent. Heck, if his fluff was directly translated into his profile, Draigo would be an Apoc character (which is also one of the problems with using 5th ed fluff in a direct comparative discussion).

From a realistic fluff perspective, it is probably a tie between Mephiston and Abaddon. Both have well established and realistic reasons for their superiority and have had this emphasised in fluff outside of their faction codex. I didn’t include Draigo in the realistic comparison because we’ve yet to hear a non codex, non Matt Ward version of Draigo’s fluff and are therefore do not have an balanced perspective on his fluff.

Namica wrote:Well, isn't the main reason Draigo is kicking so much ass, that they are daemons and he was bred specificly to kill demons? He wouldn't exactly do as well against Thrakka.

And I said no demons, because fluff has some demons WAY ahead of what Draigo has defeated.

That doesn't explain how he physically held a Daemon Primarch down and wrote a name on his heart.

Or how he burns down the Garden of Nurgle and smashes the Inevitable City to ruin.

Frankly characters like Ghazghkuull couldn't even get close to Draigo, not when you consider his feats of raw psychic might.

Also, what Daemons are that far ahead of what Draigo has defeated?

I concur. It IS Draigo, no other comes close to him.

Umm, probably a Primarch. If you think Vulkan is alive then you have your answer

I'm flicking through my copy of Codex: Space Marine and I'm not seeing the Primarch Vulkan anywhere. Sure you read the OP?

Void__Dragon wrote:

Namica wrote:Well, isn't the main reason Draigo is kicking so much ass, that they are daemons and he was bred specificly to kill demons? He wouldn't exactly do as well against Thrakka.

And I said no demons, because fluff has some demons WAY ahead of what Draigo has defeated.

That doesn't explain how he physically held a Daemon Primarch down and wrote a name on his heart.

Or how he burns down the Garden of Nurgle and smashes the Inevitable City to ruin.

Frankly characters like Ghazghkuull couldn't even get close to Draigo, not when you consider his feats of raw psychic might.

Also, what Daemons are that far ahead of what Draigo has defeated?

Sadly, the above^^.

An'ggrath the Unbound, most likely Khorne's greatest champion, described as the Lord of Bloodthirsters, was defeated by the Primarch Lorgar on a Daemon-world within the Eye of Terror, where An'ggrath's power would be at its height. Lorgar is a Daemon Primarch, whose power is more or less similar to that of his other fallen brethren. Mortarion is certainly no less capable a fighter than Lorgar at any rate. Draigo fought a path through Mortarion's armies by himself, whereby he proceeded to beat the living gak out of the unfortunate Primarch, and then held him down and carved a name into Mortarion's heart. It's ridiculous. There are few daemons in existence whose might could compare to An'ggrath or a Daemon Primarch, and yet none of them can even raise a finger at Draigo lest he burn down their realms with psychic fire and carve troll-faces into their asses.

Draigo is the ultimate mary sue. So unless you ban him from this little competition (which I think you absolutely should), it'll be really hard to argue that he doesn't win.

EDIT: I'm a Grey Knight player and even I don't like him. As far as I'm concerned, the stories of his exploits are just 2nd-hand rumors spread around the Inquisition.

Yarp, no more draigo.

And Khorn's greatest champion is Doombreed, his first and mightiest champion (who is also implied to be Gengis Khan)

Namica wrote:Yarp, no more draigo.

And Khorn's greatest champion is Doombreed, his first and mightiest champion (who is also implied to be Gengis Khan)

or any past, present or future warlord...

Based on codexes? Really you'd need EW to even be considered, as well as at LEAST a 4++ and multiple attacks at high strength with high init. With that being said, there are a few exceptions, a 2++, T6, etc. minimize not having EW and put a few characters in the running.

Draigo, Abaddon, Vect, Grimnar, Mephiston, Sanguinor.
Vect and Meph can get away without EW because Vect has a 2++ and Meph is T6 combined with the ability to shut people down. Of this group, I'd say Abaddon/Draigo are the strongest. Vect and Meph both lack EW, with Meph relying on his psychic powers way too much to boot. Sanguinor/Grimnar can both put out a hurting but either lack the survivability or raw damage output of Draigo/Abaddon.

Ghazzie, Drazahar, Lysander, Calgar are all very badass, but lack that little extra oomph to stand up to the others. Striking at I1 means you can easily be dead before you get to swing, having no invuln REALLY means you're likely to die.

Swarmlord, Lelith, Vulkan, Eldrad, Belial, Eldrad all lack EW and 1 shot can easily be the end for them.

So final answer; Draigo and Abaddon.

Traceoftoxin wrote:Based on codexes? Really you'd need EW to even be considered, as well as at LEAST a 4++ and multiple attacks at high strength with high init. With that being said, there are a few exceptions, a 2++, T6, etc. minimize not having EW and put a few characters in the running.

Draigo, Abaddon, Vect, Grimnar, Mephiston, Sanguinor.
Vect and Meph can get away without EW because Vect has a 2++ and Meph is T6 combined with the ability to shut people down. Of this group, I'd say Abaddon/Draigo are the strongest. Vect and Meph both lack EW, with Meph relying on his psychic powers way too much to boot. Sanguinor/Grimnar can both put out a hurting but either lack the survivability or raw damage output of Draigo/Abaddon.

Ghazzie, Drazahar, Lysander, Calgar are all very badass, but lack that little extra oomph to stand up to the others. Striking at I1 means you can easily be dead before you get to swing, having no invuln REALLY means you're likely to die.

Swarmlord, Lelith, Vulkan, Eldrad, Belial, Eldrad all lack EW and 1 shot can easily be the end for them.

So final answer; Draigo and Abaddon.

Fluff, not game stats.

This is about fluff, although I see now reason for the rules not to be taken into account in part.

Excluding Draigo, it has to be a closer call between Abaddon, the named Chapter Masters, and Ghaz in the fluff.

Xca|iber wrote:
Draigo is the ultimate mary sue. So unless you ban him from this little competition (which I think you absolutely should), it'll be really hard to argue that he doesn't win.

I agree with this statement. It’ll be more interesting to see outside of Draigo who is the strongest. Draigo’s fluff is too unbalanced anyway which is why I did a separate “realistic” comparison in my earlier post.

its all Ghazghul....carving graffiti in a destroyed Titans hull about how your gonna whup up on the galaxy, leading the largest Waaagh in imperial memory and coming back for more..sparing a hated dangerous enemy , just so you can have another good battle with him.

Ghaz is bad, classy and green, and has my vote.

Besides he did come from humble beginings to..a little spore

iproxtaco wrote:This is about fluff, although I see now reason for the rules not to be taken into account in part.

Excluding Draigo, it has to be a closer call between Abaddon, the named Chapter Masters, and Ghaz in the fluff.

Didn't Eldrad wreck Abaddon in a fight or something?

Tha main character piece from the latest codex.

Namica wrote:Yarp, no more draigo.

And Khorn's greatest champion is Doombreed, his first and mightiest champion (who is also implied to be Gengis Khan)

Doombreed is never stated to be Khorne's strongest champion.

In fact, more recent fluff indicates it's Angron.

Oh, and Doombreed isn't even necessarily Khorne's first champion.

Excluding Draigo though...

I'd say that it's between guys like Abaddon, or some very powerful Sorcerer Lords/Chief Librarians, like Ahriman, or Tigurius. They tend to be stronger than chapter masters all things considered. Oh, Living Saints and guys like the Sanguinor are also powerful. Eldrad would be a contender, if he was alive.

I summon DOOMBREAD!

Im going to vote for Eldrad. Mostly because he is a Farseer, and arguably the most powerful ever known. He taught the Emperor himself, and warned him of the coming traitor of one of his sons. His body is mostly crystal now, and stronger then most imperial armours (hence his better invul in game) His mind and weapons are so powerful he is easily one of the strongest out there.

on top of that he has foiled more chaos attempts at siezing the galaxy then most care to remember. And stealing Abbadons flagship while he was RIDING it is just classic


Yeah, i think the only competetion for eldrad would be mephiston...but honostly eldrad would win that fight as he would just shut mephistion down (both fluff and in game)


So yeah, im voting eldrad

Vect, because he will teabag you with a black hole

Might be a bit out of the ordinary, but im going to go with Asdrubal Vect. Though hes not the greatest fighter (but by all means is still amazing), hes a brilliant tactician and is all around amazing at the art of war.

Commissar Typhus wrote:Marbo... admit it, no other charcter has the balls of steel or the awesomeness he has.

I agree!

Nightrave wrote:He taught the Emperor himself, and warned him of the coming traitor of one of his sons.

The second kind of happened.

The first didn't happen.

Namica wrote:

Hornifex wrote:Be honest, would lelith: 3 wounds, ws 9, strength 3, toughness 3, sv 6+ - really kill Swarmlord: 5 wounds, ws 9, strength 6, toughness 6, sv 3+.

We're talkin' fluff here.

Though, what were her rules again, for her staggering number of hits? Seriouslly, I don't have my codex with me.

"Lelith gets a number of bonus Attacks equal to the difference between her Weapon Skill and the highest Weapon Skill among enemy models she is in base contact with."
And you're also forgetting that she has a 4++ all the time which is increased to a 3++ in combat.

Void-Dragon - if he ever unites.

A small piece of him fought a outright duel with the emperor and stood a chance. This piece isn't a "piece" or "part" or even "portion" but is in fact a SHARD. As in, like 1/1,000,000 of him.

I'd hate to see ANY of the C'tan fully functional.

I thought it was the whole thing that the Emp fought?

TheAngrySquig wrote:I thought it was the whole thing that the Emp fought?

According to the new Necron fluff, the Necrons rebelled against their Gods and, although unable to kill them, shattered them into tiny shards. To this day, they fear their reconstitution.

This was long, long before Humanity existed.

I'd say either lelith or thraka.

Nom

It can't be Imotekh. The Silent King is still functioning and active in the current timeline. He's, by definition, more powerful than Imotekh.

He's who I'd vote for also.

Unit1126PLL wrote:

TheAngrySquig wrote:I thought it was the whole thing that the Emp fought?

According to the new Necron fluff, the Necrons rebelled against their Gods and, although unable to kill them, shattered them into tiny shards. To this day, they fear their reconstitution.

This was long, long before Humanity existed.

Did Mat Ward just nerf the Emperor?

TheAngrySquig wrote:

Unit1126PLL wrote:

TheAngrySquig wrote:I thought it was the whole thing that the Emp fought?

According to the new Necron fluff, the Necrons rebelled against their Gods and, although unable to kill them, shattered them into tiny shards. To this day, they fear their reconstitution.

This was long, long before Humanity existed.

Did Mat Ward just nerf the Emperor?

Yes, unless the void dragon was one of the pones that got away.


Nom

Doombreed as Genghis Khan may be likely, but just as likely not. Genghis Khan could have easily belonged to Slaanesh or perhaps even Tzeentch

I hear a lot about powerful characters with so much brawn but no brain. What is the power to physically contend with a titan compared to the immense tactical genius to have one appear at your time of need?

The most powerful character is without a doubt the Lord Castellan Ursarkar E. Creed.

Waiter, there appears to be a tank in my soup.

CREEEED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Nom

Why, how did that tank get there? I'll just get my napkin and -

... a rifle?

CREEEEEEEED!

I strongly disagree with the Genghis Khan theories for Doombreed. He was a man of immense ambition, wishing to unite the Mongol tribes into a single nation, but that was not enough. He would conquer the Great Enemy, but even then he aspired to rule the entire known world. He conciously wished to preserve the ancient and influential Chinese culture rather than destroy it, and was open to and Chinese religions and philosophy, Such as the teachings of Buddha, and Confucius. Tzeentch is the god of hope, embition, change and evolution. Khorne is the god of rage, slaughter and violence. While Genghis was very capable of ruthlessness and wrath, he was a visionary, he was not fueled by hatred, but ambition. He would never be a champion of Khorne, but a prophet of Tzeentch.

Deathly Angel wrote:I strongly disagree with the Genghis Khan theories for Doombreed. He was a man of immense ambition, wishing to unite the Mongol tribes into a single nation, but that was not enough. He would conquer the Great Enemy, but even then he aspired to rule the entire known world. He conciously wished to preserve the ancient and influential Chinese culture rather than destroy it, and was open to and Chinese religions and philosophy, Such as the teachings of Buddha, and Confucius. Tzeentch is the god of hope, embition, change and evolution. Khorne is the god of rage, slaughter and violence. While Genghis was very capable of ruthlessness and wrath, he was a visionary, he was not fueled by hatred, but ambition. He would never be a champion of Khorne, but a prophet of Tzeentch.

Don't forget how much he got it on, what is it like 1/4 of the world has his DNA in them? Slaanesh easily as well...

Would it be possible to get the Blessings of 3 gods? If so, then that would probably fit Genghis Khan the best

Deathly Angel wrote:I strongly disagree with the Genghis Khan theories for Doombreed. He was a man of immense ambition, wishing to unite the Mongol tribes into a single nation, but that was not enough. He would conquer the Great Enemy, but even then he aspired to rule the entire known world. He conciously wished to preserve the ancient and influential Chinese culture rather than destroy it, and was open to and Chinese religions and philosophy, Such as the teachings of Buddha, and Confucius. Tzeentch is the god of hope, embition, change and evolution. Khorne is the god of rage, slaughter and violence. While Genghis was very capable of ruthlessness and wrath, he was a visionary, he was not fueled by hatred, but ambition. He would never be a champion of Khorne, but a prophet of Tzeentch.

The man himself remains relatively ambiguous, and I have a feeling you've been reading too much Conn Iggulden. We truly have no idea what his motivation was. It could have been ambition, a love of battle, perceived supremacy, to make his people safe, seeing an opportunity there are many possible reasons. One thing remains constant, no one stood in his way. If you resisted, you were crushed without mercy. Just look at the exterminations he committed, the directness of his strategies, many of them were bloodbaths. And he respected martial pride. It points to Khorne more than any other Chaos God.

Khorne was also the god of honor back when Doombreed was originally worked into fluff.

So, if Draigo killed Lucius, what would happen?

astrocat wrote:So, if Draigo killed Lucius, what would happen?

Technically Draigo would become one of the faces in the armor (and thus not really die), but Lucius wouldn't be as powerful as Draigo, So there would be a net reduction in power.
To be honest, the only way I can see to kill Lucius would be to kill him and commit suicide before turning completely into him.


Back on topic, my vote goes to Gazgul. He is utter powerhouse of an Ork. He has lived for long enough, and seen enough combat to be huge. With ork reliance added to the equation killing him would be difficult under the best of circumstances, not to mention he is reasonably bright for an ork.

Failing that, I am inclined to pick Abbadon, but his inability to get beyond the Cadian gate makes me doubt his ability a lot.

How could GW let this happen?

SylvanaSekNadin wrote:

astrocat wrote:So, if Draigo killed Lucius, what would happen?

Technically Draigo would become one of the faces in the armor (and thus not really die), but Lucius wouldn't be as powerful as Draigo, So there would be a net reduction in power.
To be honest, the only way I can see to kill Lucius would be to kill him and commit suicide before turning completely into him.


Back on topic, my vote goes to Gazgul. He is utter powerhouse of an Ork. He has lived for long enough, and seen enough combat to be huge. With ork reliance added to the equation killing him would be difficult under the best of circumstances, not to mention he is reasonably bright for an ork.

Failing that, I am inclined to pick Abbadon, but his inability to get beyond the Cadian gate makes me doubt his ability a lot.

What if a Necron killed Lucius?

SylvanaSekNadin wrote:

astrocat wrote:So, if Draigo killed Lucius, what would happen?

Technically Draigo would become one of the faces in the armor (and thus not really die), but Lucius wouldn't be as powerful as Draigo, So there would be a net reduction in power.
To be honest, the only way I can see to kill Lucius would be to kill him and commit suicide before turning completely into him.

It wouldnt work. If any one got the slightest satisfaction or pride from him killing himself, theyd turn into lucius.

I'd go with Eldrad. He is more powerful psychically than all Human psykers (including Draigo, that fluff isn't real, end of story).

He's definitely not dead either.

Abbadon the lord of the black legion. He is blessed by the powers of tzeentch khorne slaanesh and nurgle.

Wasn't there fluff, about a sector of space run completly by Orks, with Warbosses the size of titans, and it generally being to Orky for even someone like Thrakka?

Maugan Ra.

He stood all alone against a Tyranid swarm from Hive Fleet Leviathan and single-handily triumphs in defending an ENTIRE planet (Nid Codex p. 28).

Seriously, simultaniously shooting gazillions of sky-falling Nids, Pole-to-Pole-and-all-around-the-equator, never misses, never runs out of ammo, never too slow to arrive any given point on the planet, never looses a fight, mopping up even the last tiny organism so that not a spore, gaunt or stealer remains and taking out the space-born big-Nids on top of it.

That guy is serious business. He also solo-trekked through the Eye of Terror and his helmet looks like a Skull! Cannot beat that.

nomsheep wrote:

TheAngrySquig wrote:

Unit1126PLL wrote:

TheAngrySquig wrote:I thought it was the whole thing that the Emp fought?

According to the new Necron fluff, the Necrons rebelled against their Gods and, although unable to kill them, shattered them into tiny shards. To this day, they fear their reconstitution.

This was long, long before Humanity existed.

Did Mat Ward just nerf the Emperor?

Yes, unless the void dragon was one of the pones that got away.


Nom

Didn't the Emperor purpousefully not kill the Dragon? That certainly is what I've heard, and I'm pretty sure I've read it in some Black Library book too.

Marzillius wrote:I'd go with Eldrad. He is more powerful psychically than all Human psykers (including Draigo, that fluff isn't real, end of story).

Assuming that the Emperor and Magnus aren't considered "human", then yes.

Abbadon was made really under powered by GW. A guy with the blessing of Khorne, Nurge, Slaanesh and Tzeenech can't get past the cadians, despite being better and more awesome in every way.

I'm gonna go with Arjac for sheer BA'ness fluff wise> just my opinion thou. hell lets face he's just a unit upgrade and he has EW and 2 wounds.Just my 2 cents worth.

AlmightyWalrus wrote:Didn't the Emperor purpousefully not kill the Dragon? That certainly is what I've heard, and I'm pretty sure I've read it in some Black Library book too.

He didn't have a choice in the matter.

He was unable to kill the Dragon.

Assuming that the Emperor and Magnus aren't considered "human", then yes.

As powerful as Eldrad is, he isn't exactly peerless even among humans.

Not when you consider guys like Ahriman have done crazy gak like summon Warp Leviathans. Or Tigurius psychically contacting the Hive Mind (Allegedly).

Void Dragon. Thread over.

AlmightyWalrus wrote:
Assuming that the Emperor and Magnus aren't considered "human", then yes.

The Emperor is Human, though. Aside from that, I don't know of any Eldar doing anything like, say, Malcador shoving Titan into the Warp and shielding it from Chaos after The Fall (which essentially seems to have completely crippled them Psychically).

astrocat wrote:So, if Draigo killed Lucius, what would happen?

Meh, just smash Lucius with an artillery shell during a barrage; the Imperial Guardsmen who fired the shell won't know who they killed with it.

No character outside the eldar race is as strong as an eldar Farseer. Not saying they cannot produce amazing results and with the help of chaos gods or (the emp himself) do amazing things. Just saying that They are all young and blunt with the forces they wield, all the time welcoming and ushering chaos about them. Eldar dont do that. Eldrad is probably the most powerful farseer amongst the eldar, and probably the most powerful psyker 40k has ever seen. Just because his short written fluff dosnt have him tearing apart a titan or summoning up a warp whale and riding it while playing electic guitar dosnt make him weaker. Eldrad at one point did admit that the Emp was the only -human- whos mental potention made him a good candadite for being a seer. On top of that, Farseers and how they work with minds are insane, they almost constintly live in two realms of existance (which is why when they die their body turns into crystal as their mind leaves it for the infinity circuit)

Eldar can actually use their minds to go back in time and change events. (its in the Path of the Seer) they tend NOT to do this, for when it happens they can no longer see the future on most of the outcomes because the thread in which they tweaked no longer exists in the way they originally saw it, and no longer is trackable.


We are talking about minds so powerful that in the span of a heartbeat, they can Find your strand of fate, follow that strand to every event in your life, and every choice you could have made, and every outcome that could have done, as well as anyone who influenced that outcome, and their strands, and their choices upon the tangled skein and they can even go back to see the view from the eyes of the enemy and their fathers and for fathers. Barley any psyker in the galaxy is safe from the mind of a farseer as they are usually never strong enough to block the powers. Space marine librarians are a bit different as they have some insane amounts of will coupled with Psy. Hoods.


And to defend abadabado a bit (abbadon) he has never really had a fair fight in his 13 crusades. He was ROYALLY boned his last one. Who among us could have forseen the 13th charging from warp portals, and who could have forseen Eldrad taking the black citadel from him? (besides you know...eldrad) :p


But seriously, Eldar have done things that completly have changed the face of planets, galaxys and even the imperium of man simply because of a few people like eldrad....and humanity never knew.

The other psykers of the universe dont stand a chance agaisnt the likes of the Eldar

I don't know about that now, I think maybe, just maybe, Magnus the Red could pick Eldrad up and smash his tiny skull like a grape without a second though. Hell, I would garner a bet that Ahriman could do the same, and I wouldn't even want to know that the Emperor could do. Probably just conjure up a nice arm chair and a book, crush Eldrad into a ball the size of a marble and throw him into a sun before he'd even read the first sentence.

Why did I even bother? Clearly that was four paragraphs of an Eldar fanboy choking his chicken to a picture of Eldrad.

And you dont think..that just maybe...your not falling into the whole "Space Marines are the best because they are Space marines and they are better than everyone at everything...mentallity" I think you might....just a bit.

It is not totally perposterous that a race(older than the human race) which is "the" psychic race"within 40k. With Eldrad being said best in that race, being better.

As a general rule eldar are better pyskers as they are all pyschic and the imperium has only three pyskers that actuallly compare to the eldar pyskers.


~Nom

Yeah, Eldar are pretty much, hands down the best Psychers in 40K. Little you can do to dispute that, only ones who can compare are Daemon Princes of Tzeentch. It's been HEAVILY established.

And with that, Daemon princes of Tzeentch are not using "psyker" powers so much as just plan manipularting the warp for their own means...and they dont have to worry about daemons eating them for it

Im not contesting that Eldrad is the best pysker in the 40K world we knoew, but i dont think hes the most powerful being out there. I feel that he could easily be crushed by someone like who knows how to protect themselves against those pyschic powers, and aginst said person they wouldnt have a chance.

I hate to be the one to say this, I think the Vindicar Assassin is the biggest badass one on one, he hits and wounds on a 2+ with an AP1 weapon, also can use a round that uses 4D6 vs vehicles, also for INV saves he can remove it for the rest of the game.

Namica wrote:Yeah, Eldar are pretty much, hands down the best Psychers in 40K. Little you can do to dispute that, only ones who can compare are Daemon Princes of Tzeentch. It's been HEAVILY established.

The Emperor disputes this. Regardless of the theoretical potential of the Eldar, they can't use their full power due to Slaanesh.

Hazard30 wrote:And you dont think..that just maybe...your not falling into the whole "Space Marines are the best because they are Space marines and they are better than everyone at everything...mentallity" I think you might....just a bit.

It is not totally perposterous that a race(older than the human race) which is "the" psychic race"within 40k. With Eldrad being said best in that race, being better.

The Emperor can hold back the worst of Chaos from pouring into the Materium with his mind alone. He also proved to be overall more powerful than the massed might of the Chaos Gods.

Magnus the Red can stop the flow of time on a planet with a thought.

Malcador can hide moons inside the Warp while also protecting it from the Warp.

Ahriman can destroy massive Librariums with a Warpfire explosion as well as summon a Warp Leviathan (A massive Warp beast which can devour starships) apparently.

Eldrad is powerful. I would be hesitant in claiming guys like Ahriman or Malcador were stronger than him.

Magnus or the Emperor? Naw dude, dude naw.

Eldrad has had a much longer time to hone his skills than Magnus. Although it would be a decent fight, he could definitely best Magnus in mind combat even when he cant use his full power.
The emperor, well, nothings beats the emperor.

Ctan shard of the nightbringer, why? Because he IS death personified.

I will say Calgar because of the pimpfists(oh, and he can get an avatar to stab himself)/rage about that stupid fluff
But really, Khaine? He 1v1'ed Slannesh and couldn't be killed, but then, he's just shards now

Pure strength? Ol' Ghazzie, or the Swarmlord. Dont think much can top them when it comes to a) commanding a horde and b) brute force.

Otherwise Im inclined to mention a psyker, most probably Eldrad.

Who here is forgetting bout Thawn?!! He is immortal!!

DreadlordME! wrote:Who here is forgetting bout Thawn?!! He is immortal!!

Who?

Justicar Thawn. He is a grey Knight upgrade for a termo unit and he comes back to life after death. He was killed by Ku'gath and then cut his way out of his stomach

I don't know much about psyhic fluff so I'll stick to combat/strength/toughness.

Ghaz is pretty cool, but he couldn't deal with Yarrik's old man strength. Going by the pic on Codex: Armageddon he's 3x/4x the size of a human male.


Abaddon is pretty damn incompetent given his powers and resources. I'm not sure how he'd fair in a fight with another being with great combat prowess.

Lilith is a great fighter with amazing skill and speed, but most likely she would be too weak to kill a lot of the contenders that have been discussed here. She would end up smashed in just 1 hit.

Leman Russ. Yep he is alive, captured by Iron Warriors, but very much alive and kicking. None of those mentioned so far could stand against a Primarch. Draigo would be squashed like a bug.

BrotherHaraldus wrote:Leman Russ. Yep he is alive, captured by Iron Warriors, but very much alive and kicking.

I presume you just invented that, yes?

I would dearly like to see any bit of fluff that even hints at Russ' location other than 'In the Eye of Terror somewhere'. And unless Mortarion suddenly isn't a primarch, your anti-Draigo argument is invalid.

@Movac, Abaddon isn't as incompetent as people make out. He's been trying to capture the single most guarded planet in the Imperium apart from Terra itself. And tactical skills don't translate into combat prowess anyway, which Abaddon's fluff shows him to be excellent at.

FinalAnswer wrote:

iproxtaco wrote:This is about fluff, although I see now reason for the rules not to be taken into account in part.

Excluding Draigo, it has to be a closer call between Abaddon, the named Chapter Masters, and Ghaz in the fluff.

Didn't Eldrad wreck Abaddon in a fight or something?

No.

Nightrave wrote:And with that, Daemon princes of Tzeentch are not using "psyker" powers so much as just plan manipularting the warp for their own means...and they dont have to worry about daemons eating them for it

Actually, they do for some reason. I guess daemons of their opposing god attack them or something.

Hazard30 wrote:And you dont think..that just maybe...your not falling into the whole "Space Marines are the best because they are Space marines and they are better than everyone at everything...mentallity" I think you might....just a bit.

It is not totally perposterous that a race(older than the human race) which is "the" psychic race"within 40k. With Eldrad being said best in that race, being better.

No I don't think so. If the point at hand is that Eldrad is the greatest psyker ever, then the fact that his main contenders are Space Marine related is inconsequential. Magnus, the Emperor, Ahriman, and possibly Malcador and Lorgar, all outstrip Eldrad. If the point is that the Eldar as a race are the greatest psykers, then yes, that's fairly obvious.

BrotherHaraldus wrote:Leman Russ. Yep he is alive, captured by Iron Warriors, but very much alive and kicking. None of those mentioned so far could stand against a Primarch. Draigo would be squashed like a bug.

S'far as I know, hes just off on adventures, not captured by iron warriors.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

iproxtaco wrote:

Hazard30 wrote:And you dont think..that just maybe...your not falling into the whole "Space Marines are the best because they are Space marines and they are better than everyone at everything...mentallity" I think you might....just a bit.

It is not totally perposterous that a race(older than the human race) which is "the" psychic race"within 40k. With Eldrad being said best in that race, being better.

No I don't think so. If the point at hand is that Eldrad is the greatest psyker ever, then the fact that his main contenders are Space Marine related is inconsequential. Magnus, the Emperor, Ahriman, and possibly Malcador and Lorgar, all outstrip Eldrad. If the point is that the Eldar as a race are the greatest psykers, then yes, that's fairly obvious.

Where are you getting these facts from? Where in fluff is it stated that Ahriman Magnus or Lorgar could outdo Eldrad?
As a side note, theres no way Lorgar or Malcador outdo Eldrad in pyschic power.
*EDIT* Why does any of this matter anyways? Eldrad and Malcador are both dead, Lorgar isnt allowed in the contest seeing as hes a demon, and the emperor is in no condition to fight at the moment, only leaving Ahriman as the most powerful being out there.

This was pictured in the Warp. Do I need to add more?

I think that says it all

Clearly if that was made in the Warp, it's either
a) Made by a daemon, and as such not trustworthy evidence.
b) Made by a psyker, and as such not trustworthy evidence.
c) Made by Draigo, and as such not trustworthy evidence.

Though I do like how the attachments to Draigo's head make it look like he's growing horns.

You got to admit that at least he looks cool on that photo

If he didnt have all that crap written on his armor, he might look cool.
I think it looks stupid. Thats just me though.

And for that blasphemous remark...the emperor hates you

I'm sorry but I have to go with one individual that's already been said, but not said enough. Sly Mutha' $*@($ Marbo. Why? What other character has had threads solely based off of crazy stuff they've "done." It's Sly Marbo!

Also, isn't The Lion still considered alive just in a coma? Does that count?

That coma might impede his fighting abilities somewhat.

DK wrote:And for that blasphemous remark...the emperor hates you

Good. Rotter can hate me all he wants. Stupid corpse, stupid writing.

Void__Dragon wrote:

AlmightyWalrus wrote:Didn't the Emperor purpousefully not kill the Dragon? That certainly is what I've heard, and I'm pretty sure I've read it in some Black Library book too.

He didn't have a choice in the matter.

He was unable to kill the Dragon.

I'm gonna be an ass and ask you for a source. I remember reading that he purposefully let it live and put it on Mars. IIRC it's in "Mechanicum".

Ahriman is not more powerful than Eldrad. Sure he can summon a huge monster, but in raw psychic might he can't beat Eldrad.

Eldrad is more powerful than Malcador and Lorgar, and what sense does it make that Ahriman should be more powerful than them?

AlmightyWalrus wrote:

Void__Dragon wrote:

AlmightyWalrus wrote:Didn't the Emperor purpousefully not kill the Dragon? That certainly is what I've heard, and I'm pretty sure I've read it in some Black Library book too.

He didn't have a choice in the matter.

He was unable to kill the Dragon.

I'm gonna be an ass and ask you for a source. I remember reading that he purposefully let it live and put it on Mars. IIRC it's in "Mechanicum".

Mechanicum actually says he wasn't able to kill it, but could disable it through a weak spot in its armour. Whether he knew this and planned for it, or he improvised from there and ... flew psychically to Mars for the lolz... is unclear.

Jollydevil wrote:

iproxtaco wrote:

Hazard30 wrote:And you dont think..that just maybe...your not falling into the whole "Space Marines are the best because they are Space marines and they are better than everyone at everything...mentallity" I think you might....just a bit.

It is not totally perposterous that a race(older than the human race) which is "the" psychic race"within 40k. With Eldrad being said best in that race, being better.

No I don't think so. If the point at hand is that Eldrad is the greatest psyker ever, then the fact that his main contenders are Space Marine related is inconsequential. Magnus, the Emperor, Ahriman, and possibly Malcador and Lorgar, all outstrip Eldrad. If the point is that the Eldar as a race are the greatest psykers, then yes, that's fairly obvious.

Where are you getting these facts from? Where in fluff is it stated that Ahriman Magnus or Lorgar could outdo Eldrad?
As a side note, theres no way Lorgar or Malcador outdo Eldrad in pyschic power.
*EDIT* Why does any of this matter anyways? Eldrad and Malcador are both dead, Lorgar isnt allowed in the contest seeing as hes a demon, and the emperor is in no condition to fight at the moment, only leaving Ahriman as the most powerful being out there.

Simple deductions using examples from the fluff. Just look at some the deeds any of the contenders have done. Eldrad has never been portrayed as a supreme in terms of sheer power, only in his unparalleled ability to scheme and manipulate using the more subtle arts of the psyker. Even so, it's good to see you accuse me of something, and then go and do almost the exact same thing.

Jollydevil wrote:Where are you getting these facts from? Where in fluff is it stated that Ahriman Magnus or Lorgar could outdo Eldrad?
As a side note, theres no way Lorgar or Malcador outdo Eldrad in pyschic power.
*EDIT* Why does any of this matter anyways? Eldrad and Malcador are both dead, Lorgar isnt allowed in the contest seeing as hes a demon, and the emperor is in no condition to fight at the moment, only leaving Ahriman as the most powerful being out there.

Where in the fluff is it stated that Eldrad is stronger than Ahriman, Magnus, or Lorgar?

Why is there no way Lorgar or Malcador can outdo Eldrad in psychic power? Lorgar is the second most powerful psyker of the Primarchs, falling short only of Magnus, and apparently he is even stronger in the new Aurelian book. Malcador is perhaps the third strongest human psyker to ever live (Others, like Ahriman and Tigurius, contest this spot), and has some amazing feats of psychic might as well. As for Ahriman, he can summon Warp Leviathans (Big ass space whale of doom that eats starships), create massive Warpfire bombs, is said to rival a Lord of Change in his knowledge of sorcery, and also is very capable in foresight.

I think Magnus is more powerful than Eldrad simply because his feats of raw psychic might are consistently greater, from destroying Titans, to stopping the flow of time on a planet. Eldrad could be more gifted in some ways than Magnus, such as in Divination, but no psyker short of the Emperor himself can be reasonably said to be greater than Magnus IMO.

You must remember that most psykers specialise. In terms of Divination, Eldrad might even be greater than the Emperor, and to be fair to him he is a legitimately very powerful psyker (For instance, would be hesitant to say Malcador or Ahriman were more powerful, maybe even Lorgar), the only two non-Daemons that I would say are more powerful are the Emperor and Magnus the Red (Before he was a Daemon). Maybe also Draigo, but it's hard to say how much of what Draigo does is based on his raw psychic might.

AlmightyWalrus wrote:I'm gonna be an ass and ask you for a source. I remember reading that he purposefully let it live and put it on Mars. IIRC it's in "Mechanicum".

It's actually from Mechanicum, after eventually besting the Dragon by finding a weak spot in its necrodermis, the Emperor admits he is incapable of killing it.

I don't have the book on me at the moment, so will need a little time to provide a quote.

Read path of the seer for a better insight on the LOWER ends of an eldar psyker. from reading the strands of the skien to being able to cut other psykers off from their powers from mind power alone. Now. Take those examples and enhance them by an insane amount as eldrad is the most eldest and powerful of all eldar psykers arguably. Also note that eldar psykers do NOT Specilazie. They can use all the abilites they have learned or have the runes to enhance. So eldrad has a gift for divination, its not his only bag of tricks.

Eldar players/fans will never win an argument when a Space marine is involved. there just is more FLUFF written (either over the top, or not) on space marines. and when primarchs get involved people think its impossible to top them. As well as its hard for people to acknowledge that perhaps mankind and their warmachines of death are not the best at something. Its just hard to accept something from an alien view of thought.

Granted i once hailed from the Halls of Russ, (and still dable at his great table) there is just more written fluff on them.


As eldar get more popular in sixth we will have more fluff on them (as we allready do with Path of the warrior and path of the seer) and it shows that space marines are powerful, and eldar respect that power.


But it also shows how much they are like children when it comes to the power of the mind. Being able to blow up a titan and summon warp beasts is brutish, and a hamfisted way to use your mind. Being able to shut that down with a thought, or detect it as it happens, before it happens (be it hours, days, months years) and find out how to change it or fix it before it happens, that can be pretty killer

i vote Silent King. anyone who is bad ass enough to use the C'tan for his own purposes then lead a revolt against just has to be the best